# British Singers That Sound American



## Writ-with-Hand (Jul 21, 2011)

Why?

Is it natural or do they intentionally practice to sound American?


[video=youtube;rYEDA3JcQqw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw[/video]


*


----------



## caelum (Jul 21, 2011)

It's actually more the other way around, Americans sound British.  In singing the vowels are elongated and the R softened, and British/Aussies naturally have soft Rs.  We North Americans have that hard rrrrrrrrr sound that gets hidden somewhat between the long vowels.  Although usually I find you can tell the accent anyways.


----------



## Blood (Jul 21, 2011)

Writ-with-Hand said:


> Why?
> 
> Is it natural or do they intentionally practice to sound American?
> 
> ...


Yea that's messed up, she sounds like Etta James.  A lot of British singers try to emulate America's soulful sound. Even the Beatles and the Rolling Stones of yesteryear were inspired by American Blues.


----------



## Writ-with-Hand (Jul 21, 2011)

Caelum, are you sure? I've heard more than one British singer carry the soulful sound of an American like Blood pointed out. I'm just curious if that is intentional or just natural when singing?


Listen to this British chick in this music video below. She could be any Black-American chick in R&B or something. 


[video=youtube;gvH9Ccqk5qc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvH9Ccqk5qc&amp;ob=av2e[/video]
*


----------



## caelum (Jul 21, 2011)

I think they can sing in an American style for sure.  I only mean the accent of singing in general, which is closer to British than American.  The Spice Girls for instance "sound" American, but that's only because American singing is quasi-British.


----------



## Edgewise (Jul 21, 2011)

caelum said:


> I think they can sing in an American style for sure.  I only mean the accent of singing in general, which is closer to British than American.  The Spice Girls for instance "sound" American, but that's only because *American singing is quasi-British.*



Not blues, early R&B (especially boogie and Chuck Berry et al.) or rockabilly.  Howlin' Wolf, Big Joe Turner and Carl Perkins sound NOTHING like Brits.  Writ and Blood are absolutely right.  British artists who drew (and draw) their primary influences from American folk music sound American.  They probably try to take up an American accent to lend authenticity to their tribute to the form.  And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  I'm 99% sure that Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart and Eric Clapton wouldn't deny that they consciously attempt to flawlessly emulate American singing.


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jul 21, 2011)

Blood said:


> Yea that's messed up, she sounds like Etta James.  A lot of British singers try to emulate America's soulful sound. Even the Beatles and the Rolling Stones of yesteryear were inspired by American Blues.



The Rolling Stones, Yardbird, Alexis Korner, Animals and others were inspired by blues; the Beatles were originally inspired by skiffle and Buddy Holly. As much as I like Hugh Lawrie, I can't bring myself to listen to him singing the blues, it's bad enough with Joss Stone, but with a classy voice like Lawrie's it don't sound right. He can play the piano OK.


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jul 21, 2011)

Edgewise said:


> Not blues, early R&B (especially boogie and Chuck Berry et al.) or rockabilly.  Howlin' Wolf, Big Joe Turner and Carl Perkins sound NOTHING like Brits.  Writ and Blood are absolutely right.  British artists who drew (and draw) their primary influences from American folk music sound American.  They probably try to take up an American accent to lend authenticity to their tribute to the form.  And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  I'm 99% sure that Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart and Eric Clapton wouldn't deny that they consciously attempt to flawlessly emulate American singing.



You forget that American folk music was mostly British in origin, the roots can be traced back to England, Scotland and Ireland. Songs like the American _Blue Velvet Band_ originated in Billericay in Essex, England; resurfaced in Manchester and probably travelled to Ireland and America from the thriving port of Liverpool. Nowadays, as _The Black Velvet Band_ most of the world think it is an Irish song. There is nothing parochial about music, it travels the world, and the same melody may appear with different words on several continents. The only music I really object to is that of Harrison Birtwhistle, which to me, sounds like an accident in a paint can factory.


----------



## Edgewise (Jul 21, 2011)

Bloggsworth said:


> You forget that American folk music was mostly British in origin, the roots can be traced back to England, Scotland and Ireland. Songs like the American _Blue Velvet Band_ originated in Billericay in Essex, England; resurfaced in Manchester and probably travelled to Ireland and America from the thriving port of Liverpool. Nowadays, as _The Black Velvet Band_ most of the world think it is an Irish song. There is nothing parochial about music, it travels the world, and the same melody may appear with different words on several continents. The only music I really object to is that of Harrison Birtwhistle, which to me, sounds like an accident in a paint can factory.



Not true.  You are forgetting that American folk music (specifically the blues and so-called "hillbilly" music), especially by the early 20'th century, was a _synthesis_ of European harmonies and West African rhythmic patterns, vis-a-vie the cultural exchanges between whites, their black slaves, and the descendents of those slaves.


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jul 22, 2011)

Edgewise said:


> Not true.  You are forgetting that American folk music (specifically the blues and so-called "hillbilly" music), especially by the early 20'th century, was a _synthesis_ of European harmonies and West African rhythmic patterns, vis-a-vie the cultural exchanges between whites, their black slaves, and the descendents of those slaves.



The words _*in origin*_ are the pertinant ones. The African-Americans brought their own music which gradually transformed into the blues, spirituals and traditional jazz we know today. It wasn't until the 1960's British "invasion" that the blues came to the greater American consciousness; Bill Wyman relates how American teenagers would ask him where they could buy _this blues music_, he would tell them that it was all around them, it is American music, but that the cultural apartheid was so endemic in America that it was only heard on "Coloured" radio stations. It took the British blues bands to wake America up to its own heritage.


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jul 22, 2011)

Edgewise said:


> Not true.  You are forgetting that American folk music (specifically the blues and so-called "hillbilly" music), especially by the early 20'th century, was a _synthesis_ of European harmonies and West African rhythmic patterns, vis-a-vie the cultural exchanges between whites, their black slaves, and the descendents of those slaves.



The words _*in origin*_ are the pertinant ones. The African-Americans brought their own music which gradually transformed into the blues, spirituals and traditional jazz we know today. It wasn't until the 1960's British "invasion" that the blues came to the greater American consciousness; Bill Wyman relates how American teenagers would ask him where they could buy _this blues music_, he would tell them that it was all around them, it is American music, but that the cultural apartheid was so endemic in America that it was only heard on "Coloured" radio stations. It took the British blues bands to wake America up to its own heritage.

Hillbilly music is very European in origin, as is the variation on clog dancing which is still practiced in the north of England, and you only have to watch _Riverdance_ to to see similarities (though there is far more arm movement in Riverdance than in traditional Irish or English dance).

Last December there was a Flashdance in Newcastle in the NE of England - I do hope you can watch the link in the US - As you will see, there is very little arm waving.

BBC News - Clog dance flashmob surprises Newcastle shoppers

Here is some clog dancing from the Folklore Society of Greater Washington, the elements of both English and Irish clog dancing are clearly visible.

‪Clog Dancing‬&rlm; - YouTube


----------



## Edgewise (Jul 22, 2011)

Bloggsworth said:


> The words _*in origin*_ are the pertinant ones. The African-Americans brought their own music which gradually transformed into the blues, spirituals and traditional jazz we know today. It wasn't until the 1960's British "invasion" that the blues came to the greater American consciousness; Bill Wyman relates how American teenagers would ask him where they could buy _this blues music_, he would tell them that it was all around them, it is American music, but that the cultural apartheid was so endemic in America that it was only heard on "Coloured" radio stations. It took the British blues bands to wake America up to its own heritage.



You're flat out wrong dude.  Besides the chart successes of American white artists performing blues/r&b-influenced material long before the British Invasion (ever hear of Elvis or Bill Haley?), how do you explain the *mass* popularity of black artists like Little Richard, Bo Diddly, Fats Domino and, of course, Chuck Berry?  And that is just accounting for the 50's.  

In the 40's, boogie-woogie (a fast paced, raucous blues style that became foundational to early r&b and rock n' roll) was immensely popular among all races.

The music performed in the minstrel shows of the late 19'th century, widely regarded as the first form of popular music in America, featured many songs that were African-American in origin and based on black musical forms (though often performed by whites).  Tin Pan Alley and Ragtime songs from the 20's were also partially or completely African-American in origin and were equally popular among people of both races. 

Even the so-called "Race Charts", which nominally segregated popular  music in America, was largely a fiction because whites and blacks has  been mutually and musically cross pollinating for generations, even as social mores segregated the two races in most other ways.  Whites often tuned into stations playing "Race Music" because they were forced to do so by the self-segregation of the stations themselves.  A prominent example is "Hillbilly" music.   "Hillbilly" music was actually performed by both whites and blacks, using instruments from Africa (the banjo being the best example, and the most important instrument to the entire genre), with other instruments from the Old World (the fiddle and guitar), and melodies mostly European in origin. 

Finally, the musical repertoires of black *and* white American itinerant musicians of the post-Civil War era, all the way through the 1940's, incorporated well loved songs recognizable to all Americans regardless of race.

The point being that it didn't take the Small Faces, Beatles, Kinks or  Rolling Stones to enlighten Americans about music that they heard  everyday on their streets, music halls and radios.  And that music, as I  already pointed out, was a *synthesis* of black and  white harmonies, rhythms and instruments, and it is because of that  synthesis that American folk-music is uniquely American.  It's also one  thing a smart limey knows not to take credit for.  The Stones and the Kinks did not make bank by Riverdancing or peforming Gregorian Chants.

None of these points make light of the bigotry endemic to American society of the time.  White artists often copped songs written by blacks, slapped their names on them and claimed them for their own.  But this discussion is about music, not race relations.


----------



## Skeletor (Jul 22, 2011)

Edgewise (dammit, your Avatar confuses me )  is 100% correct.

This is an example of music's ability to cross national / racial / other divides and create some pretty cool weirdness (and yes, historically some ugliness too).

Many South African English rock / pop musicians sound American.  This is largely as a result of musical influence: people grow up so accustomed to listening to American music that it actually feels more natural to sing in an American accent.  Happens everywhere - ever heard the band members from Roxette speak in an interview?  Anyone remember Modern Talking? (god I hope not! )

Interestingly, over here many English speaking people are put-off when South African artists employ a local accent in their singing.  It somehow sounds "wrong" or awful, yet for the most part in daily dialogue it's completely natural and nobody notices.  Obviously there are forms of music that are more locally relevant and in those cases the accents fit.

The great British blues-rock guitarists such as Clapton, Beck and Page were all borrowing pretty liberally from both the musical and lyrical styles and structures of black musicians going all the way back to Robert Johnson.


----------



## Writ-with-Hand (Jul 22, 2011)

Until this thread I had no idea Clapton was British :|. I've always thought that cat was All-American born and bred. And I swear his song cocaine captures a certain Americana spirit or soul I doubt most of us Americans could even capture.

Interesting discussion going on between Edge and Blogg but I don't know anything about music history or music in general. You cats must have went to school for this stuff?

Regardless, I don't think European roots to American music explains away why Adele (am I the only one that finds her sexy in that video?) and other Brits *sound* like they're speaking (singing) American English? Not that I'm against it. I just didn't know if it was natural or intentional. Apparently, intentional from what some are saying in this thread. 

Skeletor, are you from South Africa?


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jul 22, 2011)

Writ-with-Hand said:


> Until this thread I had no idea Clapton was British :|. I've always thought that cat was All-American born and bred. And I swear his song cocaine captures a certain Americana spirit or soul I doubt most of us Americans could even capture.
> 
> Interesting discussion going on between Edge and Blogg but I don't know anything about music history or music in general. You cats must have went to school for this stuff?
> 
> ...



Some people think tha Dr. Greg House is American.................... Like Clapton.

Neither of us is entirely correct *edgewise*, but a lot of the true history of American pop music has been swept under the carpet. The old European based folk combined with the African based folk and gradually merged or ran parallel. A lot of what is seen as music of African origin in the 19th Century was really a pastiche as used in the Black & White Minstrel shows, *De Camptown Races* even had its lyrics written in a cod patois - Remember, Scott Joplin could not get his music accepted, and although Benny Goodman used black musicians, when it came to playing Carnegie Hall, he had to leave them out of the line up and get white replacements - Very few, if any, white band leaders would walk away from a show if he couldn't use his best musicians.

I learned most of it from a BBC series about the history of folk music and blues, in which people like John Lee Hooker were interviewed and said that to white America they were unknown and were amazed at the recognition they had in Britain, and that they were allowed to play on the same stage as white musicians in front of white audiences. Black jazz musicians played in major bands in France. The folk element, and the dance part of it, used film and archive to demonstrate the roots of both. Little Richard and Chuck berry, though fine entertainers, didn't sing the blues like Big Bill Broonzy, Blind Lemon Jefferson or Robert Leroy Johnson - *My Ding-a-ling* is fun, but blues it ain't... Rock and Roll is mostly derived from Gospel music, and most of its singers, including Presley started in choirs - The early releases by Presley, Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee Lewis couldn't get airtime as they_ sounded black, _not a problem in the UK, they could have been purple as far as we were concerned, we just loved the music.

But hey - I know nothing, I'm English.


----------



## terrib (Jul 22, 2011)

Um..that would be...ALL OF THEM!!!!


----------



## Baron (Jul 22, 2011)

terrib said:


> Um..that would be...ALL OF THEM!!!!



[video=youtube;yhyEMZkfLMo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhyEMZkfLMo[/video]


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jul 22, 2011)

The late, great Stevie marriot - You couldn't get anything more *East London* than that song....

Was it Loudon Wainright III that wrote the *"I woke up this morning feeling fine blues"*?


----------



## Baron (Jul 22, 2011)

[video=youtube;fNy8llTLvuA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNy8llTLvuA[/video]


----------



## Skeletor (Jul 23, 2011)

Writ-with-Hand said:


> Until this thread I had no idea Clapton was British :|. I've always thought that cat was All-American born and bred. And I swear his song cocaine captures a certain Americana spirit or soul I doubt most of us Americans could even capture.
> 
> Interesting discussion going on between Edge and Blogg but I don't know anything about music history or music in general. You cats must have went to school for this stuff?
> 
> ...



Yes I am.  Sorry I thought I'd mentioned that somewhere.   I live in Johannesburg.

In my opinion, as mentioned earlier, it has less to do with roots and more to do with musical influences.  Some of it is also intentional, as plenty of music is a commercial effort at times the muso does what the market expects.


----------



## Writ-with-Hand (Jul 23, 2011)

Baron said:


> [video=youtube;yhyEMZkfLMo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhyEMZkfLMo[/video]



Now I see why others choose to sound American, Baron.


----------



## BipBopRealGoodNop (Jul 25, 2011)

I've noticed a few British artists who sing with an English accent -

like Lily Allen and Just Jack


----------



## Baron (Aug 1, 2011)

[video=youtube;ZX06inW2hK4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX06inW2hK4[/video]


----------



## Nick (Aug 1, 2011)

Singing in a British accent has become quite common in the 'Indie' genre of music, and I've even seen American artists who sing with a somewhat British accent to fit into this genre.


----------



## Writ-with-Hand (Aug 2, 2011)

Nick, the English and Irish have a much more cool sounding English when they're talking. I wish I sounded like either one (Irish being the best accent of the two I think). And the English sound I think I'm thinking of is called Cockney. But either way the upper-class English have a very attractive sound to the way they speak too. At least some.

Singing is another matter. The Irish aside that is. Both Irish and Black-American music have a very soulful sound to it due to their peoples long struggles I think. And of course, Black-Americans have made a large impact on certain mainstream genres of music. 

I don't know nothing about Indie music.


----------



## Baron (Aug 2, 2011)

Writ-with-Hand said:


> Nick, the English and Irish have a much more cool sounding English when they're talking. I wish I sounded like either one (Irish being the best accent of the two I think). And the English sound I think I'm thinking of is called Cockney. But either way the upper-class English have a very attractive sound to the way they speak too. At least some.
> 
> Singing is another matter. The Irish aside that is. Both Irish and Black-American music have a very soulful sound to it due to their peoples long struggles I think. And of course, Black-Americans have made a large impact on certain mainstream genres of music.
> 
> I don't know nothing about Indie music.



Have a taste, Writ.

[video=youtube;ZW_RyWts-TQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW_RyWts-TQ[/video]


----------

