# Hard Fantasy version of the Napoleonic era and War



## lwhitehead (Aug 17, 2017)

Hi I need help with Hard Fantasy world that is in the Napoleonic era and War, 


The French are Elves in this setting, Humans are the British, and may some other nations,


French Elves: Now the Ancient Regime are High Elves, and the Commoners are based on the Drow, This world's and nation's Bonaparte is bastard of the Two Elven Races.


LW


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## JustRob (Aug 18, 2017)

As a Brit I shouldn't comment, inevitably being biased. Certainly our history suggests that the British have always believed that the French aren't human. However, I see a fundamental problem in that the sovereign of Britain claimed also to be the rightful king of France right up until 1800 and this claim only officially ended when Britain recognised the French Republic in the Treaty of Amiens in 1802 (according to Wikipedia). Certainly I have read legal documents from the end of the 18th century which always referred to George III by his then official title, king of Great Britain, Ireland and France. I can't see how that claim would fit in with France having been ruled over by High Elves, a clearly different race, especially if the common people there were also elven.

It was presumably Napoleon's empire building activities in Europe that riled the British subsequently, so I suppose your story would work if the other European countries had human populations and it was about Elves dominating humans. You'd have to ignore the real back history though, as that would imply that the humans considered it acceptable for humans to dominate elves. The Normans would be a problem to represent as well. Having come from Normandy to rule Britain, they also considered that they had rights to rule France and indeed for a long time French was the official legal language in Britain, but they were actually originally Nordic, as their name implies, and not French. That means that you would also have to consider what race inhabited Norway in your world and that would have an impact on the ethnicity of a significant proportion of the population of France as well as the ruling classes in Britain. 

In point of fact, it is interesting just how varied the people of France are and many don't even appear to consider themselves to be primarily French. By introducing very distinct racial differences into the area you need to define exactly which portion of the population are elven, because I don't see how it could work for you to say that the whole of France was. The same goes for Britain of course. Europe is such a melting pot of ancestry that there's no saying where anyone's family lines lead back to. For example, much of my DNA is actually Germanic even though I am predominantly English. 

You mention nation, but that term has both geographical and ethnic significance. People fight for land, identity and supremacy. You need to be very clear what your war is actually about and how closely you want it to mirror the Napoleonic era as it may not be compatible.


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## lwhitehead (Oct 23, 2017)

Well in this world, which has the Tech level of the Earth Napoleonic era, it's just English like Empire is Human, while French like Empire is Elf. 


I need to make this world and setting feel like Napoleonic War, 



LW


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## moderan (Oct 24, 2017)

This isn't research and shouldn't be classed as such.


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## JustRob (Oct 28, 2017)

moderan said:


> This isn't research and shouldn't be classed as such.



Research: Cambridge Dictionary definition - a detailed study of a subject, especially in order to discover (new) information or reach a (new) understanding. 

As I interpret the OP a request was made for information in order to aid understanding.


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## moderan (Oct 28, 2017)

JustRob said:


> Research: Cambridge Dictionary definition - a detailed study of a subject, especially in order to discover (new) information or reach a (new) understanding.
> 
> As I interpret the OP a request was made for information in order to aid understanding.



The OP has done no research whatsoever and wants other people to do his/her legwork while he/she endlessly ruminates about things that might be suitable to have written. I don't see where aiding understanding is implied or explicit.


lwhitehead said:


> Hi I need help with Hard Fantasy world that is in the Napoleonic era and War,
> 
> 
> The French are Elves in this setting, Humans are the British, and may some other nations,
> ...



This is just a sliver of a plot thumbnail, like a stepladder pitch. If you wish to waste your time replying to frivolous requests from this poster, you're free to do so. This is the same person that wanted a ghostwriter because nothing was going to get written otherwise.


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## JustRob (Oct 29, 2017)

moderan said:


> This is just a sliver of a plot thumbnail, like a stepladder pitch. If you wish to waste your time replying to frivolous requests from this poster, you're free to do so. This is the same person that wanted a ghostwriter because nothing was going to get written otherwise.



I appreciate your POV but I do not regard a thread in a forum as having a single reader, so the question for me is whether there is anything more general to be learned from it by others. Here the problem posed for me was how practical it is to transpose the conflicts from a factual setting into a fantasy one. My response was that, while the factual version might be the underlying inspiration for the story, it would have to be modified substantially to work within the fantasy setting. Such threads offer us opportunities to apply general guidelines to practical examples, which is better than simply writing tutorials in a vacuum. 

A basic principle of my writing is to consider who my target reader is. Who are the readers of this thread? That is my criterion. As for the expenditure of my personal time, that is not a subject for discussion here. I am an erratic mentor, often being serious when others are frivolous and frivolous when others are serious.

Research often starts from nothing, so a sliver of a plot thumbnail may well be its sole origin. I am used to building feasibility studies for novel computer systems from little more than a single wild idea. Novel writing appears much the same to me. Identifying the scale of the problems that a writer might face if they pursue an idea is hardly a waste of time to my mind and may be a useful warning to others to do their research and feasibility study carefully before embarking on a fruitless task. It is a sad thing to try to rescue a work that probably should never have been attempted after the writer has put much effort into it, so commenting on outline proposals and suggesting the direction of research makes sense to me. Writers toss many story ideas around in their heads and I see no harm in sharing them for comment.


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## VonBradstein (Oct 29, 2017)

It’s very nice of you, Rob, but I agree with Moderan (which I suspect won’t happen very often) that in this instance the OP has clearly not even attempted to form a real idea and is essentially transposing a somewhat random historical event on elves and humans, two factions which themselves lack imagination.

All of what you have said is interesting however it is basic stuff the OP should be doing for themselves before posting to the forum if they are able to.

You are correct you can mentor who you choose, however the only reason I am chiming in here is because there are plenty of other folk who would love your attention as well and who have done vastly more legwork on the plot/character front to merit it.

Up to you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JustRob (Oct 29, 2017)

VonBradstein said:


> All of what you have said is interesting however it is basic stuff the OP should be doing for themselves before posting to the forum if they are able to.
> 
> ...
> 
> Up to you.



I am not discussing the merits of the OP, merely how I handled the thread within the context of the Research forum. As the beta reading mentor I have encountered period based stories at the beta stage which have not had the benefit of adequate research. What may be basic stuff to you may easily be overlooked by less experienced members. On a previous occasion, to help a writer to resolve issues with his ostensibly complete work I asked a friend, a highly knowledgeable lecturer in English literature at a university, to suggest suitable 16th and 17th century source works for the writer to read to get more insight into the period, its language and practices. Had I had the opportunity to do this at the outset, then the writer could have produced a far better work initially and saved both himself and his readers much time. 

 I am not an experienced writer and there are plenty of members better able to advise on that than I, but if the beta reading stage is to be worthwhile there has to have been sufficient consultation and advice throughout the writing process. Our members have enormously differing amounts of experience, so we can never assume that anything is too basic to justify consultation here. I would rather write a few paragraphs on a thread like this than write off an entire novel at the beta stage.

Apart from anything else, the role of mentors as I understand it is to ensure that nobody ever gets overlooked, so I responded to this thread in that vein. It is not for me to say whether any poster is an overall time-waster. That is the responsibility of other staff. I was idly skip-reading the label on the back of a bottle of Advocaat many years ago and saw just the philosophical statement "A ... healthy ... society ... is a perfect emulsion". I have never wanted to live in a society where the cream and scum float to the top, the dregs to the bottom and in between all is bland and mediocre. Hence I am erratic, choosing to contribute wherever I might change the settled state of the mixture. That faltering period writer could hardly have expected to get advice from a leading university lecturer on the subject, but I stirred things up and it happened. If the administrators of WF were ever to choose to stratify the membership in terms of "worthiness" then I would accept that we should work accordingly, but for now I regard our community here as a perfect emulsion where any may obtain any level of assistance from any in a relatively random and potentially unreliable way. As you say, it is up to us.


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## jenthepen (Oct 29, 2017)

I have to say I agree with Rob here. The idea that any poster should or could know how to take the basic steps towards writing is an assumption that might be made in a teaching establishment, where levels of ability would be assumed, but here, on an open writing platform, I don't think we should lay expectations on any member, or censure them for asking for basic help.

Every member has the right to ignore any post that appears to be wasting their time, but those generous enough to take the time to give detailed information and advice should not be made to feel that they are wasting their time. Without a detailed knowledge of the circumstances and experience of every member, I can't see how anyone can decide at which level a post deserves to be ignored. writingforums.com has always been a friendly and inclusive place and I don't want to see that change. 

jen


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## moderan (Oct 29, 2017)

Soitan'y. I made that mentoring/advisory attempt with the OP upon returning to this forum and found that the OP isn't interested in any actual writing, just in excuses and half-baked speculation, at which point I ceased such efforts. I'd be more than happy to give real, practical advice but in this case such a gesture is quixotic. Your time is your own, to spend as you wish.


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 29, 2017)

> I appreciate your POV but I do not regard a thread in a forum as having a single reader, so the question for me is whether there is anything more general to be learned from it by others. Here the problem posed for me was how practical it is to transpose the conflicts from a factual setting into a fantasy one. My response was that, while the factual version might be the underlying inspiration for the story, it would have to be modified substantially to work within the fantasy setting. Such threads offer us opportunities to apply general guidelines to practical examples, which is better than simply writing tutorials in a vacuum.



Well said, Sir. There is also the fact that the most diletantee and useless of people may be turned and become something else, and this is more likely to happen if you take them seriously than if you don't. It may not always happen, it may be the rare exception even, but it is still worth trying, they just might discover something worthwhile for themselves


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## VonBradstein (Oct 29, 2017)

JustRob said:


> I am not discussing the merits of the OP, merely how I handled the thread within the context of the Research forum. As the beta reading mentor I have encountered period based stories at the beta stage which have not had the benefit of adequate research. What may be basic stuff to you may easily be overlooked by less experienced members. On a previous occasion, to help a writer to resolve issues with his ostensibly complete work I asked a friend, a highly knowledgeable lecturer in English literature at a university, to suggest suitable 16th and 17th century source works for the writer to read to get more insight into the period, its language and practices. Had I had the opportunity to do this at the outset, then the writer could have produced a far better work initially and saved both himself and his readers much time.
> 
> I am not an experienced writer and there are plenty of members better able to advise on that than I, but if the beta reading stage is to be worthwhile there has to have been sufficient consultation and advice throughout the writing process. Our members have enormously differing amounts of experience, so we can never assume that anything is too basic to justify consultation here. I would rather write a few paragraphs on a thread like this than write off an entire novel at the beta stage.
> 
> Apart from anything else, the role of mentors as I understand it is to ensure that nobody ever gets overlooked, so I responded to this thread in that vein. It is not for me to say whether any poster is an overall time-waster. That is the responsibility of other staff. I was idly skip-reading the label on the back of a bottle of Advocaat many years ago and saw just the philosophical statement "A ... healthy ... society ... is a perfect emulsion". I have never wanted to live in a society where the cream and scum float to the top, the dregs to the bottom and in between all is bland and mediocre. Hence I am erratic, choosing to contribute wherever I might change the settled state of the mixture. That faltering period writer could hardly have expected to get advice from a leading university lecturer on the subject, but I stirred things up and it happened. If the administrators of WF were ever to choose to stratify the membership in terms of "worthiness" then I would accept that we should work accordingly, but for now I regard our community here as a perfect emulsion where any may obtain any level of assistance from any in a relatively random and potentially unreliable way. As you say, it is up to us.



You explain well and I stand change minded. I have no judgments on the OP or his work, I just personally wanted to weigh in and help and then realized he/she had not given much to go on. But I am glad you were able and willing to do so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pelwrath (Nov 5, 2017)

I would first suggest that you develop your world more, Especially a sit relates to the English, Fronch/Elves; Prusiians, Austrians, and Russians. They were the major players at that time.  

What help are you looking for?

I think you have an interesting idea for a story, now flesh it out.


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## moderan (Nov 5, 2017)

lwhitehead said:


> Hi I need help with Hard Fantasy world that is in the Napoleonic era and War,
> 
> 
> The French are Elves in this setting, Humans are the British, and may some other nations,
> ...



Help is one thing, truth another. I maintain that the OP has nothing whatsoever to do with research and is instead a thinly veiled attempt to either acquire a mentor or have someone else do the work.
The OP belongs in another area. It's a what-if scenario. All the noble-minded sentiment in the universe won't change that. It isn't censorship. It isn't even semantics or hairsplitting...but all that got buried in a torrent of whatever this all was.
The post belongs in Writing Discussions...that was the point. Not whether or not the idea was worth discussion.

More like: 


> I have an idea -- a Hard Fantasy world that is in the Napoleonic era and War. The French are Elves in this setting, Humans are the British, and may some other nations. (?)
> 
> 
> French Elves: Now the Ancient Regime are High Elves, and the Commoners are based on the Drow, This world's and nation's Bonaparte is bastard of the Two Elven Races.


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