# Indies United Publishing House



## Ralph Rotten (Aug 23, 2018)

A group I know [distantly] is putting together something that I find philosophically quite fascinating.
They are creating a platform where Indies can come together under one house with the intent of magnifying their power through collective publishing.

I have actually theorized about doing something like this, and the concept tantalizes me.  
They're called *Indies United Publishing House*, and they are looking for Indie writers.
https://www.indiesunited.net/

However...they have not even opened yet (not until September), and their ranks are thin. _Actually, at this point I don't think they have any ranks_. Also, the odds of failure are high; it's a tough market.  I consulted Moderan and he gave me more than a few words of caution about the endeavor...

Still, the idea of dozens of Indies banding together, tweeting together, peer-reviewing each other, and legitimizing Indies, is a concept that really thrills me.  I am seriously considering publishing with them.  I have a brand new book, fully edited, proofed, bound, and ready to go.  It's not part of my series, and I am lousy at marketing sci-fi, so I am teetering.  So at this point I will read the contract and other associated documentation they have provided (they have already accepted my book *The Day Gravity Became Irrelevant*.)


I'll come back to this thread and post more after I read the contract & small print. Originally I was gonna keep it a secret (because I'm an asshole) but decided (reluctantly) to share it with y'all.


Check it out.  It could be a better alternative to publishing on your own, or it could go bust in the first year.  But I have always wanted to get in on something on the ground floor, and as I mentioned, philosophically I like the concept.  Will it work? WTFK?


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## PiP (Aug 23, 2018)

Perhaps helping indie authors is something WF should focus on. We have a huge reach with millions upon millions of page views per year. And we have been established on the net for over 14 years. What can WF do to help?


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 23, 2018)

I have been tweeting to about 2000 writers a day, inviting them to the forum.
Many of them are Indie published, some working writers...
This is the era of the Indie writer.


I'm still reading the contract & submission materials for IUHP, and so far it looks okay. The terms are clear, there is an escape clause, and they don't take any of your royalties.  Also, they have a clause that allows them to kick to the curb anyone who conducts revenge reviews or consistently flames other members without just cause. They just retire the offender's ISBN, and the jerk has to go start over.

Members will be required to review one book by another IUHP member every quarter, tweet or post on social media about IUHP at least once a week.  Basically you would have a group of writers, self published but under one banner, giving each other reviews while helping to market the group.

The only hiccup to the whole utopian idea is bringing in the writers.  The idea could really be awesome, or it could flop like a fish.
I still need to have my lawyer [brother] look at the contract to make sure it doesn't have any pitfalls that I did not see.


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## Pete_C (Aug 24, 2018)

At first glance I don’t see them publishing anything. They offer two things: discounted individual ISBNs ($25 instead of $125) and a mention on their website. Those who buy at the discounted price have to contact to publicise IU and their social media efforts. 

IU make $23.50 on each ISBN and rely on their customers to drive a joint marketing campaign. Their media presence and mail lists will be of great value in the future, and as each book requires a minimum of three ISBNs (print, .epub and .mobi) they make $70.50 per novel. 

The indie writer saves $100 if they were going to buy individual ISBNs, but if they opt to use ISBNs provided by other service providers they lose $25. If they bulk buy ISBNs they save a lot less. If they group with other indie writers they can achieve the same social media sharing.

They don’t seem to do any of the grunt work for writers (but have partner vendors who will charge for the work). Maybe they do more but their current information focuses on selling ISBNs and enforcing customers of their ISBNs to promote them via their existing social media channels.

Most prolific indies publish more than three books, which means they will buy ISBNs direct in blocks of 100. At the rate ISBNs cost under $6 each so $25 is expensive. Therefore IU is only attractive to those publishing one or two books, who believe they will achieve orders from bookstores. Otherwise you are paying $25 per book to give IU access to your social media accounts.

I’m not sure at the moment.


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## PiP (Aug 24, 2018)

Would a board (forum) dedicated to Indie Authors be of value?


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 24, 2018)

Pete_C said:


> Most prolific indies publish more than three books, which means they will buy ISBNs direct in blocks of 100. At the rate ISBNs cost under $6 each so $25 is expensive. Therefore IU is only attractive to those publishing one or two books, who believe they will achieve orders from bookstores. Otherwise you are paying $25 per book to give IU access to your social media accounts.




Actually I never buy ISBNs. I use the free ones supplied by CP.  Have yet to find a downside, but then again, I have never tried to move one of my books from CP to another vendor.


I didn't get that they have access to my social media, there is only a requirement to tweet or SM about the group at least weekly.*
But that would make sense because you would need to each help to build up IUPH in order to help market your own work. 
I've done the solo route, and I am always looking for ways to increase marketing and visibility.
To quote a famous general: I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it'd do any good. 

Seriously tho, my biggest concerns are:
1) They may not bring in enough writers to make it worthwhile
2) It could get pricey having to buy a member's book every quarter.





*I already do that for WritersForum.com, so what's an extra few tweets?


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## 1Zaslowcrane1 (Aug 24, 2018)

Hi
I'll take a chance on this. Might it be a book of short stories by various indies? Who would be the editor? I might be willing to co-edit...
How do I find out more?
Zaslow


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## Phil Istine (Aug 24, 2018)

PiP said:


> Would a board (forum) dedicated to Indie Authors be of value?



Sounds good.


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## Jack of all trades (Aug 24, 2018)

Pete_C said:


> At first glance I don’t see them publishing anything. They offer two things: discounted individual ISBNs ($25 instead of $125) and a mention on their website. Those who buy at the discounted price have to contact to publicise IU and their social media efforts.
> 
> IU make $23.50 on each ISBN and rely on their customers to drive a joint marketing campaign. Their media presence and mail lists will be of great value in the future, and as each book requires a minimum of three ISBNs (print, .epub and .mobi) they make $70.50 per novel.
> 
> ...



They charge $25 for each ISBN and make $23.50 profit? How many do they have to buy to get $1.50 per ISBN?


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## Dormouse (Aug 24, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> They charge $25 for each ISBN and make $23.50 profit? How many do they have to buy to get $1.50 per ISBN?



1000. From Bowker 1000 = $1500


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 24, 2018)

I don't begrudge them making a profit. A group like this would take a lotta time to manage and moderate. Domains ain't free. 
I have a spare book just laying around, think I'll try it, assuming I don't find anything sketchy in the docs they sent.  
So far it looks interesting. I might even try their cover designer since I'm at a loss for a design.
What kinda cover do you put on a story about antigravity?






Yes, my story might be just a little derivative...


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## Pete_C (Aug 25, 2018)

I think they will get writers; will they get readers?


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## Bayview (Aug 25, 2018)

For me it comes down to quality control.

I worry that this could be a consortium of authors who spend more time on marketing than they do on producing a product _worth_ marketing, and I don't want to associate my work with that kind of writing. I worry about the reaction from fellow members if I read a sub-standard book and review it fairly... or, if I choose not to review books I can't praise, I worry how much time and money I'd spend on trying to find a book that I could review honestly _and_ favourably.

I think it make sense for self-published authors to team up in their promotional efforts, but I'd rather do this on a more casual basis so I can control who I will be teamed up with. I'm happy to post reviews and compliments for authors whose books I've enjoyed, but I'll be damned if I'll post reviews and compliments for authors whose books I don't enjoy. And it's not that easy to find self-published books I enjoy.


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## moderan (Aug 25, 2018)

I find them readily but in my field, and in that field we're basically already doing that, posting each other's new works, cross-promoting, blogging, reviewing, podcasting. While there is competition, we feel that the other writers aren't enemies, they're peers. How long this lasts if people see real success, I dunno. That's already starting...


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 25, 2018)

Bayview said:


> I think it make sense for self-published authors to team up in their promotional efforts, but I'd rather do this on a more casual basis so I can control who I will be teamed up with. I'm happy to post reviews and compliments for authors whose books I've enjoyed, but I'll be damned if I'll post reviews and compliments for authors whose books I don't enjoy. And it's not that easy to find self-published books I enjoy.




Hey, I posted you a 5 star for Lessons in Lying. 


Seems to me like the review process could be really helpful if they could figure out a way to focus on book launches.  That's when book reviews weigh the most on the Amazon algorithm; at time of release.  It'd be nice to release a book and have ten peers posting reviews on days 1-5.  It would help to float your book high on the list(s)...at least high enough for people to find it amongst the other 70,000 books published that month.  Sometimes book releases feel like a drop in the ocean...your book just disappears into the mosh pit of books.

But true dat about a lot of Indie books being written like crap.  If you are not an established author with at least 10 reviews at a rating of 3+, then you are required to go through a submission process.  Here is something from one of the docs they sent me:


-----------------------------------------------------
*What are your review standards for new authors?* 
Books, like all art forms, are subjective. We ask when you submit your book to let us know if you are giving us a finished (completely edited and ready to print) manuscript, or an ARC (an uncorrected proof or review copy). We will also require the category of your book. Novels, both fiction and nonfiction, are judged by a different criteria than a book about healthy lifestyle choices.


We prefer that you submit a finished copy, but if you are submitting an ARC novel, we are looking for a book that engages our attention. Does it have a good plot line? Is it entertaining? Can we see the diamond in the rough shining through? If we agree your book has potential we will ask that you have it edited and resubmit it for review for publication.


If you are submitting a finished copy, we expect it to be relatively free of errors. We understand that some errors do occur, and even the best editor can let mistakes pass through, but if we find it to be difficult to read, or have a distracting number of errors we will send it back to you for re-edit.


If you are submitting a non-fiction book that is not a novel (ie: self-help, historical, cookbook, etc) our criteria varies as widely as the subjects. We will not judge a cookbook by the same standards as a historical book for instance. We will expect the book to have a clear purpose that does not meander, is factually accurate, and free of errors that inhibit the reader from understanding the subject.


For poetry, children’s books, comic books, graphic novels and coloring books we ask that all books be submitted in final form and free of spelling and grammatical errors.


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 25, 2018)

moderan said:


> I find them readily but in my field, and in that field we're basically already doing that, posting each other's new works, cross-promoting, blogging, reviewing, podcasting. While there is competition, we feel that the other writers aren't enemies, they're peers. How long this lasts if people see real success, I dunno. That's already starting...





How do I join YOUR group?


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## bdcharles (Aug 25, 2018)

I'm all for this and other forms of independent creativity. This however to me is not quite where I want to be at the moment; it seems a little too much like the bazillion "BookBuzzzzz" types festering in twitterland. I wonder if they might do better if they engaged actual small startup publishers as well as authors, providing a platform and brokerage service to both. The Northern Fiction Alliance does something like that in the traditionally under-represented north of England - and _they _are about to feel the uninterrupted animal power of my query gun.


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## Theglasshouse (Aug 25, 2018)

PiP said:


> Perhaps helping indie authors is something WF should focus on. We have a huge reach with millions upon millions of page views per year. And we have been established on the net for over 14 years. What can WF do to help?



It would be worth researching what indies need to know, and Ralph Rotten's find is going to test whether indies have it to be successful. But to make that dream come true they need to be selective of what they publish. Even though they profit, they need to start off well and create new voices since that is what writing is all about.


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 26, 2018)

So I have gone over all the materials, (still waiting on a lawyer to look over the contract, which looks good to me, but I'm an idiot about legal stuff), but I have decided to risk my newest book on the endeavor.
A group like IUPH is what I had originally envisioned with RottenApplePublishing, but I simply did not have the stones to put it together like this. 
Essentially I am still self-publishing the new book, but under the banner of IUPH.
The book's success/failure is still up to me. The group simply offers communal marketing support.


From everything I have read, the biggest danger of failure is:
1) Not bringing in enough GOOD writers. If it becomes known as a place where any hack can get published then it'll fail.
It needs to be somewhat exclusive, otherwise it will validate all the bad things you hear about self-publishing.


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## moderan (Aug 26, 2018)

Ralph Rotten said:


> How do I join YOUR group?


Just start doing. There are no union dues.


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## Anita M Shaw (Aug 27, 2018)

> Originally Posted by *PiP*
> 
> 
> Perhaps helping indie authors is something WF  should focus on. We have a huge reach with millions upon millions of  page views per year. And we have been established on the net for over 14  years. What can WF do to help?



Stupid question here - but isn't that what the Self Publishing board is about? I do like the ring of Indie Author/Publisher though, more than self publisher or self published author. I formed my own little entity to publish my stuff through which I term an Independent Publishing site. For me, getting out the word and finding readers, marketing, promo . . . all the things that take up time away from writing is what boggles my mind. I've finally enrolled in a couple of courses to see if I can ever wrap my head around at least some of this. 

I have my own block of ISBNs because, well, if I've formed my own publishing entity, it'd be crazy to use someone else's numbers instead. I'll need to buy more in a few months as ten don't go far. I'm not doing print copies yet, so I have numbers for ten books. When I decide I want to do that, I'll buy another ten. I wish they would help us out with other amounts between ten and 100 and from there to 1000. Wish I'd had the means to get that 1000 when the price was $1000. 

I can see using a third party number if you're doing it just in your own name as an indie author unassoiciated with any publishing house. Because I want to save my precious numbers for the novels, I did use Draft2Digital's free numbers for my short stories so I could get them into the stores that require them. Amazon doesn't require them and I am so happy about that!

I'm starting to think about launching my YA. I so suck at promo and marketing, doesn't matter the genre!

I do like the idea of indies helping each other succeed. Be listening in on this to see how it goes.


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