# What do you think of when you hear the word 'Terror' in a story title?



## ironpony (Apr 16, 2019)

I was coming up with a title for my story, and a few of the titles had that word in since it has terror in the story, but when I asked a couple of friends opinions, they said not put the word terror in the title cause it will be misleading, cause when people hear that word, they assume that the reason why people would be committing terror is for religious or political reasons, where as the villains who are doing it in my story, are not doing it out of religious or political motivation.  So therefore, a title with the word terror in, would be misleading.

But would a lot of readers actually think that when they see the word, and that that word does actually have too much ties to religion and politics rather than just going by a broad, or more general definition of the word?


----------



## bdcharles (Apr 16, 2019)

It could go both ways for me - the religion/politics route or a more horror-oriented theme. To rework a phrase, context really is king here so if your title is "The Eldritch Swamp Terror" and has some green slimy beast on the cover I will think it's horror; if it's called "Terror in the Skies" and has a plane on the cover I would think in terms of a hijacking.


----------



## Phil Istine (Apr 16, 2019)

ironpony said:


> I was coming up with a title for my story, and a few of the titles had that word in since it has terror in the story, but when I asked a couple of friends opinions, they said not put the word terror in the title cause it will be misleading, cause when people hear that word, they assume that the reason why people would be committing terror is for religious or political reasons, where as the villains who are doing it in my story, *are doing* it it out of religious or political motivation.  So therefore, a title with the word terror in, would be misleading.
> 
> But would a lot of readers actually think that when they see the word, and that that word does actually have too much ties to religion and politics rather than just going by a broad, or more general definition of the word?



I have a feeling that you have omitted the word 'not' where I've made it bold.  Would that be so?


----------



## ironpony (Apr 16, 2019)

Oh yes, sorry I missed that I didn't put the word 'not' in.  I fixed it, and thank you for pointing that out.



> It could go both ways for me - the religion/politics route or a more horror-oriented theme. To rework a phrase, context really is king here so if your title is "The Eldritch Swamp Terror" and has some green slimy beast on the cover I will think it's horror; if it's called "Terror in the Skies" and has a plane on the cover I would think in terms of a hijacking.



I thought about using the word horror instead, but I thought if I used it, that maybe readers might think it was a more traditional horror screenplay, that concentrates more on slashes and gore, perhaps.


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 16, 2019)

ironpony said:


> I thought about using the word horror instead, but I thought if I used it, that maybe readers might think it was a more traditional horror screenplay, that concentrates more on slashes and gore, perhaps.



Just FYI that terror and horror are two different terms with quite different applications. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_and_terror


----------



## SueC (Apr 16, 2019)

The word "terror" in a title only makes me think I'm in for a scary, bumpy ride. I don't consider the meaning behind titles, other than in the most superficial terms. If the shoe fits . . .


----------



## ironpony (Apr 16, 2019)

Okay thanks.  Yep I know that terror and horror, have two different definitions, but since my story has both, I suppose either would do.  Do any of these titles sound good then?

In The Mood For Terror

Just Another Terror Tale

Just Another Terror Wave


----------



## Olly Buckle (Apr 17, 2019)

Your three titles illustrate the point I was about to make, the word on its own means nothing, the meaning attached will depend on the other words around it.

I would say avoid the word 'Just' at the start of your title, my immediate reaction to that is 'Oh, is that all it is?'



> but when I asked a couple of friends opinions, they said not put the word terror in the title cause it will be misleading,


The other advice I think I have given you before is to stop asking your friends questions like this. They might have no real opinion on the subject, it might well be something they simply would not even think about, but ask them and they feel bound to come up with an opinion of some sort, which may or may not be valid. Rule number one for writing, 'Believe in yourself and your ability'; after all if you don't believe in yourself how can you ask others to believe in you? Consider, yes, but it is your story and your judgement that counts, and whilst these people are your friends it does not mean that they are necessarily the type who are your natural readers. Some of the people I love and who are closest to me think nothing of my stories, some I barely know and don't want to know any better think they are great.


----------



## Terry D (Apr 17, 2019)

I wouldn't waste much time thinking about a title for a screenplay. In the unlikely event that it ever gets produced, the producers will give it the title they feel is most marketable. Of course it actually has to get written first.


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 17, 2019)

I agree with everything Olly said. 

Honestly, coming up with a title is kind of as basic as it gets.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 17, 2019)

Terry D said:


> I wouldn't waste much time thinking about a title for a screenplay. In the unlikely event that it ever gets produced, the producers will give it the title they feel is most marketable. Of course it actually has to get written first.



Oh well, I wanting to get into film directing as well, and this script might very well be my first feature film that I produce and direct.  So in that case, I might have final say over the title, and was therefore wondering which is the best one of course .


----------



## Terry D (Apr 18, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh well, I wanting to get into film directing as well, and this script might very well be my first feature film that I produce and direct.  So in that case, I might have final say over the title, and was therefore wondering which is the best one of course .



Right...

On Edit: I need to add more to this even though I don't believe it will do any good. Ironpony, you have shown very little understanding of basic story construction, no willingness to do any of your own research, a total lack of knowledge about the basic tenets of the genre in which you've chosen to work, and now you want us to believe you could actually manage the entire process of producing and directing a movie? I'm sure it must get frustrating to come on here and face the ridicule you do (unless you are a troll who enjoys such things), but your unreasonable expectations, and lack of any signs of progress in 3 years, really give other forum members very little reason to take you seriously.

If you are serious, you need to scale back your expectations and concentrate on doing the real work of writing a screenplay. After 3 years you should be nearly done. Get to the finish line. Act like the writer you want to be, not like a daydreaming school boy.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 18, 2019)

Oh okay, I thought that I did make a lot of progress in 3 years and the story was better now than before, unless I'm looking at it the wrong way?


----------



## Annoying kid (Apr 18, 2019)

ironpony said:


> I was coming up with a title for my story, and a few of the titles had that word in since it has terror in the story, but when I asked a couple of friends opinions, they said not put the word terror in the title cause it will be misleading, cause when people hear that word, they assume that the reason why people would be committing terror is for religious or political reasons, where as the villains who are doing it in my story, are not doing it out of religious or political motivation.



Your story's villains are a bunch of murdering incel rapist cyber criminals operating a massive crime syndicate online,  as I recall. They can be classed as domestic terrorists.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 18, 2019)

Well that's what I thought, but when I asked a couple of friends, they said that when people think of terrorists, they think of a story that is going to have religious or political themes, since most terrorism stories, deal with those themes.


----------



## Annoying kid (Apr 18, 2019)

You're writing about  murdering incel rapists operating a massive crime syndicate online who evade law enforcement at every turn, and you're worried about how the audience will react to the word "terror" in the title. 

...Clearly your priorities are in perfect order. \\/


----------



## ironpony (Apr 18, 2019)

Well it's a dark story for sure, but is it too dark?


----------



## Sir-KP (Apr 18, 2019)

I think I'd like to hear it more specific. I mean, 'Terror'. Okay...? Terror what?

'Terror Merror'?
'Lady Hutchtington's Terror in the Clovenskin Village'?
'Southwest Applebee's Villa - The Terror'?
'The Midnight Terror'?
'The Police Legacy - Episode:Terror'?

I just made up a few random titles there with Terror in it. I'd say they give different feelings and slight overview on what the story is all about and so IMO that's what you should aim when using the word Terror for your title.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 18, 2019)

Oh well I meant in the context of the three titles I listed before, sorry.


----------



## Sir-KP (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh well I meant in the context of the three titles I listed before, sorry.



Sorry I skipped that.



ironpony said:


> Okay thanks. Yep I know that terror and horror, have two different definitions, but since my story has both, I suppose either would do. Do any of these titles sound good then?
> 
> In The Mood For Terror
> 
> ...



Everything sounds meh to me. It gives a vibe of "_oh man, here comes petty shit again_". Your story doesn't sound important with those as title.


'In the Mood of Terror': I'm speechless on this one. It sounds very lusty, hidden desire-ish. If your story tells about a 9-to-5 guy with inner murderous psycho alter-ego that triggers when he's bored, then yea... maybe.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 19, 2019)

Okay thanks.  I mean for the 'Just Another' titles to be satirical, but maybe a satirical title is not the way to go.  Other titles I had where The Madness Never Stops Policy, or Nihilopolis, if those sound any better?


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  I mean for the 'Just Another' titles to be satirical, but maybe a satirical title is not the way to go.  Other titles I had where The Madness Never Stops Policy, or Nihilopolis, if those sound any better?



They all sound pretty lame to me, but that isn’t the point. 

I think what you’re missing (or ignoring) in the advice so far is: it does not actually matter. “O Brother Where Art Thou?” and “American Horror Story” and “The Meg”  are all pretty limp titles at first glance without any context, but a mediocre title isn’t a deal-breaker for most adults. 

I always thought “Se7en” sucked as a title with its corny stylized “7” that really made no sense. But so what? I still have watched these things and enjoyed them and now I can’t imagine them being titled any different. So long as the title fits the material and you feel it is the right choice....it’s fine.

Honestly, this has to be one of the more asinine “discussions” on here of late.


----------



## Kyle R (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh well, I wanting to get into film directing as well, and this script might very well be my first feature film that I produce and direct.  So in that case, I might have final say over the title, and was therefore wondering which is the best one of course .



To be blunt, I must say: if you hope to be producer/director/screenwriter, you really must develop the confidence to make these kinds of decisions on your own. Many of your posts on these forums share the same tone—indecision, uncertainty, doubt. These kinds of mindsets are the enemies of both creativity and productivity.

What's a title for your screenplay that you love? Make that the title. What are plot choices that you're proud of? Write them into your story. Don't stumble around with your writing, apologetic and seeking permission; march ahead like you own the damn place. ride:


----------



## Olly Buckle (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  I mean for the 'Just Another' titles to be satirical, but maybe a satirical title is not the way to go.  Other titles I had where The Madness Never Stops Policy, or Nihilopolis, if those sound any better?



Bear in mind the object of the title, to attract people to the main story by feeding them a vignette of the story. Being satirical is unlikely to do that. Firstly I can't think of a single satirical title off hand.There probably are some, most things get tried, but it is unlikely to be the reader's mindset when they see the title, it certainly wasn't mine when I commented that 'just' made me think 'Is that all it is?'. Don't try to be clever and subtle, people have not got enough information in a title to appreciate things like that, be literal. For example, you want to use the word 'terror' but you don't want it confused with religious terrorists, so use the words 'Unholy terror', it all takes place in the city; 'Unholy terror on Main Street'. Don't try to be clever and subtle with the title, that is not what they are for, they provide a little information, and so attract.

I don't really believe any more than Terry D. that the advice will go in, I fully expect to see your next post starting 'Okay thanks, but...', but I am sure you are not the only one to read this and it might actually help someone. Meanwhile I take pleasure that you bother to write out 'okay' and not abbreviate it and are polite enough to thank people and hope that we are all being misled and you are writing a script that will be a humdinger, unlikely as it seems. 

There was an amazing man called Milton Erickson who once said 'I had a terrific advantage in life, when I was a teenager I had polio and for eighteen months was completely paralysed except for my eyes.' The message, all experience is an advantage if you see it that way, you may not realise your dreams of writing and producing/directing a great movie, but the experience of trying will serve you well in life if you view it realistically and learn from it. Being paralysed as a teenager might seem like hell, but accepted it got used to learn to watch and see in a way that most teens never have the opportunity for. I do hope we are all wrong, and you make a great success at it, but if you don't remember it is another experience you have others didn't, and it can help you.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 19, 2019)

Oh okay, well the reason why I asked for a lot of input on here, and from others is because a lot of filmmakers say make sure you get lots of input of the story and screenplay elements are good, cause you don't want to write a screenplay, make it, and then it turns out the script and story sucked, and you didn't seek input from anyone cause you were all too confident about it.  At least that is what I was told from other filmmakers and a course I took on it...  That's why I asked for a input on a lot of elements, to be cautious about it, rather than just guessing that it will be good without any input whatsoever.


----------



## Kyle R (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:
			
		

> At least that is what I was told from other filmmakers and a course I took on it... That's why I asked for a input on a lot of elements, to be cautious about it, rather than just guessing that it will be good without any input whatsoever.



Here's some contrary advice from a screenwriter/director/producer who you might have heard of: 

"There are many talented people who haven't fulfilled their dreams because they over thought it, or they were too cautious, and were unwilling to make the leap of faith.

Don't wait to be asked because nobody is going to ask you and don't wait for the perfect conditions because they'll never be perfect.

What I learned from those early days was to trust my instincts and to not back off."

— *James Cameron*​


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, well the reason why I asked for a lot of input on here, and from others is because a lot of filmmakers say make sure you get lots of input of the story and screenplay elements are good, cause you don't want to write a screenplay, make it, and then it turns out the script and story sucked, and you didn't seek input from anyone cause you were all too confident about it.  At least that is what I was told from other filmmakers and a course I took on it...  That's why I asked for a input on a lot of elements, to be cautious about it, rather than just guessing that it will be good without any input whatsoever.



There's a chasm of difference. In all your posts on this forum you consistently conflate feedback and critique (vital for any beginner) with co-authorship.

Imagine a moment that _every single one_ of your questions received a flood of helpful answers (they largely already do) and you got all the help you wanted to write your screenplay - How much of the resultant work would then be the product of _your_ imagination? What would have been the result of _your_ decisions as opposed to the committee's 'input'? Why should _you_ get any credit at all? 

Do you suppose Spielberg asks whether he should set his movie in a certain city? Do you think the Coen Brothers ask a panel to tell them whether the title of an unfinished script is 'okay'? Do you think Christopher Nolan queries forums for a green light as to whether the villain would rape their victim without a prophylactic? Do you think any of these guys _ever _did? 

I doubt it. Not because they never ran into difficulty with their scripts but because when things got difficult they were willing to make the call. That is what Kyle is saying. What Kyle is saying is that as the author you have to be in the driver's seat, not sitting in the back asking everybody else to take turns because you don't know the way.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 19, 2019)

Oh okay.  It's just when I took the driver's seat before, I was told I got way ahead of myself, and should have gotten feedback before speeding ahead so far.  I use to do that with my scripts and film projects, but was told I need advice and assessment first to know if something will work.  But maybe not then...

Like for example there are parts of my story, I still feel like I could use input on, and I am tempted to take the driver's seat, floor it and own it, and get it done, but don't want to rush it either of course.


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay.  It's just when I took the driver's seat before, I was told I got way ahead of myself, and should have gotten feedback before speeding ahead so far.  I use to do that with my scripts and film projects, but was told I need advice and assessment first to know if something will work.  But maybe not then...



Who told you that?


----------



## ironpony (Apr 19, 2019)

Just other filmmakers when showing off my work, whether it was a completed script or a short film or class project, etc.


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Just other filmmakers when showing off my work, whether it was a completed script or a short film or class project, etc.



I absolutely guarantee that if you asked any of them to clarify, none would say _'every time you encounter the slightest difficulty or come across a new idea, make sure you debate it ad nauseum with the interne_t'.

What I imagine they probably would say is something like '_write your story as best you can and then see what other people think, and if you have any major issues you are completely stuck on its okay to ask for help/opinions, but for goodness sake don't rely on other people to make your every creative decision, because it is your work and you need to own it_'.

But what do I know. Carry on.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 19, 2019)

How do you know if an idea works though without asking other experienced people in writing, though?  Even if you aren't stuck and have an idea of where you want the story to go, how do you know it will work, or make sense to others, or be convincing, without asking anyone?


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> How do you know if an idea works though without asking other experienced people in writing, though?  Even if you aren't stuck and have an idea of where you want the story to go, how do you know it will work, or make sense to others, or be convincing, without asking anyone?



Because asking doesn't actually help you.

I could come up with an idea for designing a robot that can boil an egg, ask a thousand people if it will work based on a threadbare description of it, and perhaps entice some encouraging words or positive reinforcement that way. If your goal is simply to receive positive reinforcement and 'attaboys', that's an attainable goal - though whether it's attainable for _you_ on _this_ forum is another matter, of course.

But...if its serious help with the robot's design I were after, if the people who are trying to help never actually see the thing in full operation nor have the opportunity to test it or critique it, their opinions simply aren't going to ever be useful. It's the same when you ask people to comment on a title or setting or problem or some other plot device in a story they have not read, or have not read beyond the scant scene or two you might post. It doesn't work. A blind man can't show you the way on a map.

As I said, your ideas for titles sound lame as heck to me, but they may be a perfect fit for your story. The entire notion of a forum as a means to help with actual writing is fundamentally flawed. Beyond the most basic and vapid of topics ('What's your fave time of day to write?' 'What's your writing machine?' 'What's your favorite genre?') there really isn't much to argue about on here  that is true for everyone, which is probably why most debates on here seldom become much more than a game of ego bashing/one-upmanship, a carousel of crap where everybody is a professor in their own playtime and various sad sacks play for plaudits...because there is very little that can be said that is absolutely, provably true in every single case.

For people like you that is unfortunate, because it seems you actually expect to get some kind of concrete hand-holding with your story and you can't expect it, because there is no way anybody on this forum (or any) can tell you definitively if your story, such as it even exists, makes sense or not without reading it, assuming anybody even genuinely wants to help you as opposed to patronize you. Hence all you are going to get is condescension and ridicule the more you tediously persist with expecting answers nobody has. It's not here. Sorry.


----------



## Dluuni (Apr 19, 2019)

Honestly, the thing that will help you the most is to put the story on paper. Probably with a printer these days, but paper nonetheness. The ENTIRE story. Give it a clunky title, the worst title in the entire world. It doesn't matter. Put down chunky and inconsistent characters, muddled places, make all the mistakes you are worried about making. All of them. Every single one. Just put it all down. Don't edit ANY of it. Just spew it all down. Then change the font to Comic Sans, print it with a two inch margin, and shove it all in a drawer somewhere. Then write something else. Then come back and pull the first story out and read it, however many weeks or months down the line it takes you. Not immediately. not the same month. read it from cover to cover. Cringe. Make notes.
Then go back and FIX it.
Your ideas will almost certainly be better. THEN you should have some grounding to get advice, now that you have the hard copy in hand.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 19, 2019)

Okay thanks.  I already have the whole story on paper.  Not actual paper but on the computer on virtual paper.  When I send it out to people to read, they don't seem to mind email as oppose to giving them hard copies on actual paper, but I can do that, if that's better.

As for getting opinions, I guess I just don't know the best way to something will work, or if it will work at all, unless I ask.  Right now I have an idea for the story that I am excited about in the rewrites, that I think might improve it perhaps and am tempted just to run to the finish line with it, without even asking on it first.

As for asking opinions from friends on plot holes, my friends tell me that the plot holes wouldn't have even occurred to them, if I didn't ask and they were just along for the ride, until I pointed them out later.  So perhaps parts of the plot I am worried about not making sense, don't matter, if you don't point them out a lot of the time?


----------



## Olly Buckle (Apr 19, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, well the reason why I asked for a lot of input on here, and from others is because a lot of filmmakers say make sure you get lots of input of the story and screenplay elements are good, cause you don't want to write a screenplay, make it, and then it turns out the script and story sucked, and you didn't seek input from anyone cause you were all too confident about it.  At least that is what I was told from other filmmakers and a course I took on it...  That's why I asked for a input on a lot of elements, to be cautious about it, rather than just guessing that it will be good without any input whatsoever.


You seem to be confusing input and feedback. I can't imagine film makers asking people for ideas, on the other hand I am sure they show them their ideas and get their reaction to them. That is a different thing to asking for opinions and suggestions. They are looking to see if the bits that were supposed to be funny make people laugh, that sort of stuff, but they don't ask them what they might like instead, that is the job of the creatives


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 20, 2019)

ironpony said:


> As for getting opinions, I guess I just don't know the best way to something will work, or if it will work at all, unless I ask.  Right now I have an idea for the story that I am excited about in the rewrites, that I think might improve it perhaps and am tempted just to run to the finish line with it, without even asking on it first.
> 
> As for asking opinions from friends on plot holes, my friends tell me that the plot holes wouldn't have even occurred to them, if I didn't ask and they were just along for the ride, until I pointed them out later.  So perhaps parts of the plot I am worried about not making sense, don't matter, if you don't point them out a lot of the time?




Again, there's no way to *know* if something will work whether you ask it or not.

In fact, forget _knowing, _you can't even get a good hint from this strategy: Not from endless questions without the context of the actual (completed) work. If it was possible to know if a book or script 'worked' through simply asking questions/opinions on the minutiae without actually stumping up the content for people to read, workshops wouldn't need to exist. 

Here's a challenge for you...

*Finish* your screenplay - all of it. Then, if you still feel the need for validation or 'help', post it on here. I promise if you do that I will personally write a *long* critique of it (just shoot me a PM) and encourage everyone else on the mentor board to do the same. I'm talking a couple thousand words of critique. I expect there will be several good folks who will do it. This is, after all, supposed to be a supportive environment.

Once this is done I will analyze every piece of the plot, point out every plot hole, give feedback of everything. I will do this for free on my own time, purely out of goodwill and admiration for you ponying up (see what I did there?) and finishing the thing BY YOURSELF. 

*In return: *All I ask is that you cease with these 'advice' threads. No more until you finish your draft. Why? Because you don't need it. It's an opiate you need to go cold turkey from. 

On the other hand, if I see one more thread from you asking a 'What do you think if I..." or "Is it okay if I..." type question, no matter how important you may think that question is, this offer is void. Forever.

What do you say? In or out?


----------



## Kyle R (Apr 20, 2019)

ironpony said:


> How do you know if an idea works though without asking other experienced people in writing, though?  Even if you aren't stuck and have an idea of where you want the story to go, how do you know it will work, or make sense to others, or be convincing, without asking anyone?



You finish the story, and let a few trusted readers read it (or an audience view it).

Then you consider their reactions, apply any necessary changes, polish it all until it shines, and finally, publish your work.

After that, it's a matter of marketing and promotion. And: starting your next story.

You _don't_ keep cycling back for more and more feedback and advice, over and over and over again—otherwise, you'll never finish your work. :grief:


----------



## Winston (Apr 21, 2019)

I think of King or Koontz.


----------



## Bard_Daniel (Apr 24, 2019)

I think it really matters on the context, as another fine WF member mentioned. Yet, I also agree with Winston that it would make me think more along the King/Koontz area. Yet, I still *really* think it depends on the context.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Apr 26, 2019)

I noticed the thread title just now and realised one very rarely 'hears' the title of a story, much more likely to read it and that is quite a different thing . No tone of voice, only the context of the surrounding words.

PS. thinking of titles with 'terror' in; The Terror of St. Trinian's ?


----------



## Dluuni (Apr 26, 2019)

Anyway, in response to the title, when I see "terror" in the title, all I think is "Oh, they want to be more visible to SEO for horror and suspense fans."


----------



## ironpony (Apr 27, 2019)

Dluuni said:


> Anyway, in response to the title, when I see "terror" in the title, all I think is "Oh, they want to be more visible to SEO for horror and suspense fans."



Oh okay, thanks, but what do you mean by SEO?  I read it stands for Search Engine Optimization, but is that what you mean?


----------



## Olly Buckle (Apr 27, 2019)

'search engines' made me think to search titles with 'terror' in, you could think popular, or you might think unoriginal.

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-movies-with-terror-in-the-title/ranker-film?page=3


----------



## Dluuni (Apr 28, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, thanks, but what do you mean by SEO?  I read it stands for Search Engine Optimization, but is that what you mean?


Yeah. That's also the reason a lot of romance novels have the titles they do, so the fans can quickly identify their favorite elements at a glance.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 28, 2019)

Okay thanks, so you are saying that have words in the title that are elements of what fans would expect then?


----------



## Dluuni (Apr 28, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks, so you are saying that have words in the title that are elements of what fans would expect then?


Yeah. here, let's look at some Harlequins. Harlequin publishes what is known as "Category Romance", romance novels that are branded not individually but by the branding. When you pick up a Harlequin, you want to know what you are getting inside at a glance. And they are marketed well.
"The Billionaire's Pregnant Mistress" - bang, we know there are several tropes right here. You have an Alpha hero, who is male, in a m/f pairing, specifically of the subtype "Billionaire". You know that there is going to be a pregnancy trope.. all of these things have their own fans. Just in that title, a romance fan can drill down into a lot of the tropes in the book and decide if they are going to like it at a glance. It's Harlequin, so it will have a medium heat level, elegant settings and characters, and all the other things that are requirements of the brand; it's romance, it has a happy ending (that's literally a requirement of the genre). A romance reader looks at the side of the book for an instant, they know if that's what they like. And they appreciate that and buy it.
"Billionaire Romance" is its own search term. Variations on "pregnancy romance" are a search term. And so on. As soon as that thing hits Amazon, the bots can easily populate it into categories that people will know how to find it by, so they can buy it.
As an aside, I wouldn't read it, and I appreciate knowing what's in it. I dislike "Alpha Hero" and pregnancy plots just make me feel unhappy and unfulfilled. So if I see it, I immediately put it down, so I don't get the chance to stupidly read it, rage, and give it a bad review.
On a book branded "Harlequin Western Romance": "To Trust A Rancher". A lot of the tropes can be inferred here. It's not going to run up the SEO as well, but you can infer a lot from the title anyways.
"The Greek's Forbidden Innocent: An Emotional and Sensual Romance (Harlequin Presents: The Princess Seductions Book 3696)" That's literally what the full title comes up as on Amazon.com. You can see that there's a lot to work with there in terms of keywords and searches.
Then you get to cover art. Most of these have nakie manchest. My books wouldn't, because that indicates at least medium heat and mine are mild at most. but Harlequin is medium heat. Other romance authors might have high or low heat. You can tell from the cover, and looking for words like "steamy", "spicy", "erotic", "sweet", "clean"..
Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" would be classified as "Clean Regency Romance", IIRC.


----------



## ironpony (Apr 28, 2019)

Oh okay, so are saying that it's good or bad to have elements in the title that people of a genre would expect?

If it's good, I am not what my genre branding is.  I guess it's a crime and revenge tragedy where violence begets violence, that explores an ugly side of human nature, if that counts as a branding?


----------



## Dluuni (Apr 29, 2019)

To me, the point is to have people read it, which means I want people to buy it. For that, I want the cover to look like covers of books the people who would like my book like to read, and I want the title to both look like a title for a book they already enjoy and to communicate things about the story that is recognized by the people who enjoy it and deters people who won't like my book. I also want the search engines to put it in front of my readers.


----------



## luckyscars (Apr 29, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, so are saying that it's good or bad to have elements in the title that people of a genre would expect?
> 
> If it's good, I am not what my genre branding is.  I guess it's a crime and revenge tragedy where violence begets violence, that explores an ugly side of human nature, if that counts as a branding?



As someone who reads a lot of crime, I tend to be less drawn to anything that sounds generic or amateurish.

Good titles for contemporary crime and thriller novels IMO tend to have some kind of world play, maybe a pun, often an interesting metaphor or image. A title like "The Big Sleep" (Ray Chandler) is perfect because it takes a childish idiom for death and applies it to a very dark story. "The Bone Collector" has a similar effect. "Darker My Love", "The Killer In Me", "Strangers On A Train", "The Mothman Prophecies" - these are all titles that hint at tension and suggest the tone if not the actual content of the piece but don't give anything away or sound hyperbolic.

A lot of old fashioned crime and cozy mysteries tend to be simpler and more obviously titled, but that's a whole different marketplace than what your work probably is. Titles like "The Murder At the Morgue" and stuff like that are old fashioned and often cliche. I would avoid, personally.


----------



## Sir-KP (Apr 29, 2019)

Damn, son. This page 5 is gold material...


----------

