# Footwear For Werewolves!



## Rojack79 (May 31, 2020)

Honestly my werewolves are just anthropomorphic wolves but I would still like some help with footwear for them. Someone else that I talked to suggested snow booties as a starting point but upon looking those up I just wasn't really all that convinced of there potential as footwear for these guys.

 They are hunters and warriors firstly in my books but some of them have taken up the role of healing. Someone pointed out that with digitagrade feet they wouldn't be able to haul heavy loads, so I was thinking of possibly having them create a modified high heel type of shoe to help alleviate some of the stress to there toes. 

I also was thinking of what kind of clothing they'd have. Seeing as they have fur to keep them warm I had decided to go with the Tarzan/Tribal look of a loin cloth and chest wraps for females. But then my brain got to thinking about special occasions like weddings. What would they wear for those?

I have found a few pictures to help figure out some of their clothing as well as cultural customs but I'd like to hear from others real fast. I don't have the best sence of fashion around so any help would be appreciated.


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## RWK (May 31, 2020)

Need drives design.

Why would a werewolf need footwear? 

Real wolves don't need them, which rules out climate.


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## Rojack79 (May 31, 2020)

RWK said:


> Need drives design.
> 
> Why would a werewolf need footwear?
> 
> Real wolves don't need them, which rules out climate.



That's the thing for me the only real reason I can see for it is so they feel more civilized. Also the reason I gave before so they could haul more heavy loads. Also if they happen to live in a pretty dangerous climate that's strewn with hazards, like glass or random bits of metal. It's after the apocalypse so there's a lot of random hazards left over from the event.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> Why would a Werewolf worry if someone can see their naughty bits?  Aren't they covered in hair?



Modesty. They are a civilized people after all.



Biro said:


> Being as you know about such creatures can you tell me if the male Werewolfs cock their legs up walls and trees to have a pee?


 Of you mean do they mark territory then yes they do in order to worn off other predators just like in real life.



Biro said:


> Also do the Werewolves entertain crotch sniffing like dogs?  If so Werewolf parties must be great fun.


That part I don't know about just yet, also it's butt sniffing. I know they will still have some wild tendencies like growling, using body language to communicate their feelings, such as raising their tails to establish dominance and lowering it to show submission. Or folding back their ears to show embarrassment.


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> That's the thing for me the only real reason I can see for it is so they feel more civilized. Also the reason I gave before so they could haul more heavy loads. Also if they happen to live in a pretty dangerous climate that's strewn with hazards, like glass or random bits of metal. It's after the apocalypse so there's a lot of random hazards left over from the event.



I think you're importing your concept of 'civilized' onto the 'wolves.

Barefoot people carry very heavy loads; in Germany, they have contests where Rottweilers pull milk carts (which was what they were bred for). Dogs have been used as pack animals in many cultures.

Wolves like people who normally walk barefoot, habitually pick their way through ground derbies.

You're going to need a much better reason for shoes, I believe.

Biro brings up an interesting point: what about scent glads? clothing would certainly interfere with that important social activity. And with grooming. Wolves are highly social beasts.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

RWK said:


> I think you're importing your concept of 'civilized' onto the 'wolves.


 No that's the wolves doing that. They are smart enough to know that humans will respect them more and respond more favorably to them if they are at least modest. 



RWK said:


> Barefoot people carry very heavy loads; in Germany, they have contests where Rottweilers pull milk carts (which was what they were bread for). Dogs have been used as pack animals in many cultures.


 Yes but 1. These are normal humans with normal feet not werewolves with digitagrade feet. Digitagrade feet sadly aren't great at carrying heavy loads. Plus due to there mutations they only have the two feet not four legs.



RWK said:


> Wolves like people who normally walk barefoot, habitually pick their way through ground derbies.
> You're going to need a much better reason for shoes, I believe.


 Well that's great if they have the time to do that. For me i have to plan out how their footwear would work because they have scavengers whI routinely go out into the wasteland to search for supplies. And while yes that means they have to be meticulous and careful they aren't always going to be able to avoid a foot hazard and if there foot gets injured then they aren't going to be of use to the tribe until it's healed.



RWK said:


> Biro brings up an interesting point: what about scent glads? clothing would certainly interfere with that important social activity. And with grooming. Wolves are highly social beasts.


Yes they are one of the most social creatures out there compared to humans which is why I planned on giving them the Tarzan outfit consisting of a loincloth and chest wrap for the females. They'restill going to be cuddling and loving to their friends & family but they aren't going to be 100% wild beasts. They will have given up some of their wild habits when they became civilized.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> Animals in general are very intelligent at which humans scoff and ridicule because we think we are the master race.
> 
> We cover our bodies with clothes not just for warmth but for some weird invention called modesty.  But whenever we disrobe on a nudist beach, modesty is lost and so is the interest in naughty bits.
> 
> ...



I'm not quite sure who your responding to here because you have RWK's post tagged but you seem to have issue with the way I'm choosing to portray my characters and I don't really understand why.

 They are a work of fiction that I'm trying to make believable and modest so people don't have a heart attack upon seeing a naked furry. As I've stated before these creatures aren't normal werewolves, in fact to be perfectly honest they're uplifted wolves given human physiology via genetic engineering. They aren't ment to be 100% wild beast or human with fur. They're in the middle and are trying to fit into a hostile and dangerous world, one that they're not at all used to living in much less copeing with the fact that they can now talk and walk upright.

I know enough about wolves in general to know that putting one in a three piece suit is tantamount to suicide for one of them due to them having fur. That's why I started this discussion to see what could be done clothing wise with them. I'm not saying that need to be humans with fur, they're going to have their own culture and social customs the same as any other race of people but I just need some help with figuring out the more nuanced choices. P.S. also they wouldn't use any kind of scented oils at all really seeing as their sence of smell is their meal ticket.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> I only tagged RWK's post because of his reference to Wolves intelligence.  So I appologise to both for the mix up.


 Ah ok.



Biro said:


> The point I am trying to make in a jovial humorus way (just my way) is that a Werewolf is a magnificent strong supreme mythical beast.  Where a weak human transforms into a Werewolf for that reason to acquire strength and all the qualities of a strong intelligent skilled hunter..........and more.


 Yes that is true of normal werewolves.



Biro said:


> Why would a Wolf transform into a human type being and acquire basically just all their weaknesses?  Ok they may drive a car and use a PC.  But does a Werewolf need that?


 These guys are the result of genetic experiment gone right that the primary villain cooked up so they could proclaim to be a God. It worked for the most part.



Biro said:


> Which story would get the readers attention and respect?


 Well my idea is a fantastic romance between a cybernetic human and a genetically engineered werewolf so...



Biro said:


> Of course if you have some different way that I have missed then that's ok I was just making a point.


 Yeah I just wondered what was up with the post because it was a little confusing that's all.

Oh and the wolves will be getting holographic emitters to disguise themselves as humans at some point in time, put a little spin on the old werewolf dynamic.


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> No that's the wolves doing that. They are smart enough to know that humans will respect them more and respond more favorably to them if they are at least modest.



Good point.



Rojack79 said:


> Yes but 1. These are normal humans with normal feet not werewolves with digitagrade feet. Digitagrade feet sadly aren't great at carrying heavy loads. Plus due to there mutations they only have the two feet not four legs.



OK, here's where you're making a mistake IMO. You may be right, and you sound like you are right, but that is not the sort of input that will meld well with a fantasy dialogue. Plus, an astute reader would wonder about ankle strength and spinal structure when a creature intended to be quad carries a load upright. In short, don't take the reader thee, because it opens up the door to a lot of other questions.



Rojack79 said:


> Well that's great if they have the time to do that. For me i have to plan out how their footwear would work because they have scavengers whI routinely go out into the wasteland to search for supplies. And while yes that means they have to be meticulous and careful they aren't always going to be able to avoid a foot hazard and if there foot gets injured then they aren't going to be of use to the tribe until it's healed.



That's not how it works. It is an ingrained habit, not a deliberate act. You'll see cats do the same thing: stroll across a cluttered surface without touching a paw to anything but the basic surface. People post cat challenge videos about it.

Likewise, coyotes, dogs, and bears are notorious for raiding garbage dumps, which are chock full of sharp debris.

That argument does not hold up, and will cost you credibility with readers.

This is why a good writer learns anything and everything they can:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spats_(footwear)

There's your shoes. Looks civilized, while leaving the wolf unhindered.


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> Animals in general are very intelligent at which humans scoff and ridicule because we think we are the master race.



I promise you, I've never thought you were masterly at anything, or as intelligent as an animal. :cool2:


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> Ah ok.
> Well my idea is a fantastic romance between a cybernetic human and a genetically engineered werewolf so...


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> Hey I have feelings you know:cower:;-)



:grin:


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

RWK said:


> Good point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looking into the Spat it really doesn't do any good for the werewolves. But seeing the use of Puttee's and Gaiter's has given me a better idea of how to design a shoe for these creatures. I will probably have to add a high heel extension again for support reasons. And I do agree about learning anything and everything is important but there's a difference between learning and knowing. I know for a fact that animals and humans no matter how good they are at sorting through junk can have an accident that includes these fictional characters so I have to disagree with your statement above about that losing me credibility.

 If anything it would endear readers to me because I actually took the time to think about how these guys could protect themselves from a serious injury that could happen at any moment of they aren't paying attention. Which like us they can't be 100% focused on a task at hand at any one time. Hell I stepped on a nail as a kid and didn't even notice until someone pointed it out. And that can still happen today if given the right circumstances. 

Again these guys don't have normal human feet. They're feet may be good for running long distances but they aren't the best at hauling large loads and I have to remedy that within the confines of the story itself I can't just say this is so because I'm the author. Also I have to point out that my story is science fiction, not fantasy so I have to be a lot more thorough when it comes to my research.


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## Tryon (Jun 1, 2020)

When I think of a canine (werewolves included!) in shoes this is the image I get.  Not very cool.  lol


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> I don't know how to say this without it being brutal...........But your description so far of your Werewolves just makes it sound like a non-starter.
> 
> I do not read books but if I came across the description of your film on Netflix or other, then I would quickly move on.
> 
> Sorry no offence intended.



It's furry fiction. A very..._specific _audience, if you get my drift.    :distant:


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## Foxee (Jun 1, 2020)

I have a problem with the premise and I feel really awkward for mentioning this.

Wolves don't have thumbs. Not even anthropomorphic ones. So my mind keeps wondering how these guys thread a needle to make clothes and then it falls over and won't work anymore. (my mind that is)


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

Foxee said:


> I have a problem with the premise and I feel really awkward for mentioning this.
> 
> Wolves don't have thumbs. Not even anthropomorphic ones. So my mind keeps wondering how these guys thread a needle to make clothes and then it falls over and won't work anymore. (my mind that is)



Human genes via genetic engineering. The main villain decided to play God and his experiment worked. Think of a normal werewolf but the way the story is structured they come about in reverse.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

RWK said:


> It's furry fiction. A very..._specific _audience, if you get my drift.    :distant:



Well not really. I just wanted to come up with a more plausible way of creating real werewolves.


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## Foxee (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> Human genes via genetic engineering. The main villain decided to play God and his experiment worked. Think of a normal werewolf but the way the story is structured they come about in reverse.





> Honestly my werewolves are just anthropomorphic wolves


Not sure what to picture.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

I wish I could put up a picture but imagine I guess 
( since it's been brought up) a wolf furry with digitagrade feet, but human hands so they can hunt with spears and bow's. They don't need much clothing so they have at most a loin cloth and chest wraps for the females, although depending on how anatomically correct I go with these characters they may have more nipples so I guess an abdominal wrap would also be in order. And then for there feet they have a gaiter to keep there feet and legs protected from heavy undergrowth and bits of debris.


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> Well not really. I just wanted to come up with a more plausible way of creating real werewolves.



That's going to be a tough sell. Particularly in a sci-fi setting. That assumption is going to turn away a lot of readers, particularly if you have any mention of romance.

White Wolf pretty much has set the tone for the 'serious' werewolf market.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

RWK said:


> That's going to be a tough sell. Particularly in a sci-fi setting. That assumption is going to turn away a lot of readers, particularly if you have any mention of romance.
> 
> White Wolf pretty much has set the tone for the 'serious' werewolf market.



Well I have plenty of other sci-fi technologies in the book I just want to make sure I get my races on order first. For me have everything planned out for the most part and just hit a bit of a snag in the case of the clothes for these specific characters. And realistically it's been done before to great success so I'm not really all alone when it comes to uplifted animals especially in a sci-fi setting.

P.S. Also I tend to not really care much for others work in relation to my own because I want my own work to stand on its own merits plus I've never even heard if White Wolf before so there's that as well.


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> Well I have plenty of other sci-fi technologies in the book I just want to make sure I get my races on order first. For me have everything planned out for the most part and just hit a bit of a snag in the case of the clothes for these specific characters. And realistically it's been done before to great success so I'm not really all alone when it comes to uplifted animals especially in a sci-fi setting.
> 
> P.S. Also I tend to not really care much for others work in relation to my own because I want my own work to stand on its own merits plus I've never even heard if White Wolf before so there's that as well.



Ah.

White Wolf is the publisher of the various, incredibly popular, vampire and werewolf RPGs that have refined and dominated several genres. A dynamic trend-setter. I'm shocked you aren't aware of them. 

The purpose of paying attention to others' work, and of avoiding labels like 'furry', is because you want to sell your work, and novels by new authors are always a glut upon the market. Very few first novels sell, so a wise would-be author will pay close attention to trends, buying habits, and reader expectations.

But I'll leave it be; obviously, you're not interested. And you've yet to actually publish your work, so this entire topic is purely theory in any case.


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## Phil Istine (Jun 1, 2020)

Could call the footwear 'Pawpers', especially if they live in poverty.


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Phil Istine said:


> Could call the footwear 'Pawpers', especially if they live in poverty.



:ChainGunSmiley:


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

Phil Istine said:


> Could call the footwear 'Pawpers', especially if they live in poverty.



That is pure gold! Honestly if the furry community enjoys it I have no issues. They really get a bad wrap for no real reason. There's perverts and deviants in every fandom imaginable. I've personally met a few furries and they were a joy to hang out with. Plus I do find the artwork adorable but I'm an animal person at heart so that helps.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

RWK said:


> Ah.
> 
> White Wolf is the publisher of the various, incredibly popular, vampire and werewolf RPGs that have refined and dominated several genres. A dynamic trend-setter. I'm shocked you aren't aware of them.
> 
> ...



Oh that White Wolf ok. Yeah I've heard of them and have even stumbled across some of their stuff during my research but I really don't tend to chase after trends or trend setters. Honestly all of the furries I've met and befriended have been great so if they enjoy my content I have no issues with that. Plus my story will more than likely have all kinds of controversy over the way I'm choosing to portray my characters and their lives. I'd much rather my work be judged by its own merits than conform to what society deems normal.


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## RWK (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> Oh that White Wolf ok. Yeah I've heard of them and have even stumbled across some of their stuff during my research but I really don't tend to chase after trends or trend setters. Honestly all of the furries I've met and befriended have been great so if they enjoy my content I have no issues with that. Plus my story will more than likely have all kinds of controversy over the way I'm choosing to portray my characters and their lives. I'd much rather my work be judged by its own merits than conform to what society deems normal.



You have to sell them to generate controversy. And if your plot has a furry aspect, you are writing for a very tiny sub-sub-genre, which means you'll sell fewer than most indie writers.

And most indie writers don't sell books.

This may be new to you, but it isn't new. Anyway, I'm done.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

RWK said:


> You have to sell them to generate controversy. And if your plot has a furry aspect, you are writing for a very tiny sub-sub-genre, which means you'll sell fewer than most indie writers.
> 
> And most indie writers don't sell books.
> 
> This may be new to you, but it isn't new. Anyway, I'm done.



As I've said before I'm writing a science fantasy piece, not a furry piece. If they happen to like my story great. That's not that small of a chunk of people honestly it's just one of the most misunderstood groups out there. As far being idle I'm far from that, I do have two novels under my belt so far. Sure there fanfiction but they can still help pay the bill's. I'm honestly not all that sure what this has to do with anything at the moment as well. You've given me some new ideas for the footwear so thanks for that but please reframe from derailing my thread in the future.


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## hvysmker (Jun 1, 2020)

Foxee said:


> Wolves don't have thumbs. Not even anthropomorphic ones. So my mind keeps wondering how these guys thread a needle to make clothes and then it falls over and won't work anymore. (my mind that is)



Hey, it's his creation. Why not thumbs. Come to think of it, imagine humans born with multiple un-jointed tentacles instead of fingers. Wouldn't that be a survival trait? And THAT is vaguely possible according to cybernetic theory. (See WikiPedia.)

As for footwear, why not simple sandals with the proper inserts for his creatures, leaving clawed toes unrestrained?


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## Foxee (Jun 1, 2020)

No, my comment was in response to the creatures being basically wolves, the way they were described early in the thread sounded like they most likely had paws but the description seems to be morphing as the discussion goes so now thumbs are there by the sound of it.

Sewing for everybody!


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## hvysmker (Jun 1, 2020)

Foxee said:


> No, my comment was in response to the creatures being basically wolves, the way they were described early in the thread sounded like they most likely had paws but the description seems to be morphing as the discussion goes so now thumbs are there by the sound of it.
> 
> Sewing for everybody!


 Off subject, but did you know many rodents have human-like hands? Not opposable thumbs, though.  I never gave it a thought until I bought a pet rattie.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

hvysmker said:


> Hey, it's his creation. Why not thumbs. Come to think of it, imagine humans born with multiple un-jointed tentacles instead of fingers. Wouldn't that be a survival trait? And THAT is vaguely possible according to cybernetic theory. (See WikiPedia.)
> 
> As for footwear, why not simple sandals with the proper inserts for his creatures, leaving clawed toes unrestrained?



That was my first idea was something simple like a sort of slipper but others pointed out that that would be useless.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

Foxee said:


> No, my comment was in response to the creatures being basically wolves, the way they were described early in the thread sounded like they most likely had paws but the description seems to be morphing as the discussion goes so now thumbs are there by the sound of it.
> 
> Sewing for everybody!



Sorry about that. I should have been more clear about their description. They are a werewolf in the sence that they look like wolf human hybrids but while they have opposable thumbs like us they have the hind legs of a normal wolf not human feet.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 1, 2020)

hvysmker said:


> Off subject, but did you know many rodents have human-like hands? Not opposable thumbs, though.  I never gave it a thought until I bought a pet rattie.



Actually yes. I had a pet rat named Steve once. He was adorable.


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## hvysmker (Jun 1, 2020)

Rojack79 said:


> That was my first idea was something simple like a sort of slipper but others pointed out that that would be useless.



I don't see why. slippers CAN be quite ornate, colorful, and have good soles. With a little imagination, include snap-on waterproof or winter covers.


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## Rojack79 (Jun 2, 2020)

hvysmker said:


> I don't see why. slippers CAN be quite ornate, colorful, and have good soles. With a little imagination, include snap-on waterproof or winter covers.



See now that you mention it my brain has come up with at least four different pairs of shoes for these guys based on all of the feedback I've been given.

1. Basic Everyday Shoe: The slippers idea, but modified by your advice up above. It would cover the fur of there feet while leaving their claws exposed so they can still grip the ground easily but that about it. It might be designed more for comfort than anything else.

2. Heavy Duty Load Bearing Shoe: This one would be an extremely well built, possibly having some mechanical components as well, and made to assist the werewolves in the safe lifting and carrying of heavier loads than there skeletal structures can allow. This would allow them to work alongside their human counterparts while not slowing down the overall working process.

3. Wilderness Survival Boot: This is a sort of Jack of all trades scouting shoe the werewolves have come up with to help protect their feet and legs from sharp brambles, thorns, spikes, snakes, ant other hostile trees, plants, or wildlife that would greatly hinder their scouting abilities. It consists of a semi hardened leather soal strapped to their foot pads for added stability and balance, that piece then has a flap of toughened leather that overhangs their toes leaving the claws exposed but not getting in their way. Then the "boots" come into play by wrapping their upper legs in tough leather thick enough to keep out, fangs, spikes, and other wilderness hazards.

4. Extreme Hazards Footwear: This one is eluding me at the moment. I can think of a combination of all of the above but made from an ultra durable metal to protect their feet from glass, sharp pointed metal bits and other hazards of exploring the ruins of an ancient city.


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