# Kurt Vonnegut's Eight Rules



## Kyle R (Jun 1, 2012)

Kurt Vonnegut is best known for turning into a giant lizard and spewing flames at horrified Japanese pedestrians while knocking over buildings. But not many people are aware that he was also a writer in his spare time. Here, he gives us eight tips for writing a great story.

What do you think of his advice?

1. Use the time of a total stranger in such a way that he or she will not feel the time was wasted. 

2. Give the reader at least one character he or she can root for.

3. Every character should want something, even if it is only a glass of water.

4. Every sentence must do one of two things — reveal character or advance the action.

5. Start as close to the end as possible.

6. Be a sadist. Now matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them — in order that the reader may see what they are made of.

7. Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia.

8. Give your readers as much information as possible as soon as possible. To heck with suspense. Readers should have such complete understanding of what is going on, where and why, that they could finish the story themselves, should cockroaches eat the last few pages.

[video=youtube;PqqJkkWcQ-c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqqJkkWcQ-c[/video]
This is what happens to those who disobey eight rules of Kurt Vonnegut.


----------



## dale (Jun 1, 2012)

being from indy, it seems i should have known more about vonnegut long ago. but i really only recently began reading him.
in 2 books, he's become one of my favorite writers. the man knew how to intertwine humor in a dark subject like no other.
maybe it's a hoosier thing.


----------



## Tiamat (Jun 1, 2012)

One two and three are common sense. Five is a question of style. Eight is utter poppycock.


----------



## Jon M (Jun 1, 2012)

Numero uno is totally beyond the author's control.


----------



## squidtender (Jun 1, 2012)

Number five is an interesting one. It brings to mind _fight club_, but makes me wonder if this is only applicable to certain types of stories. And Tia, I see your point, but maybe take that tip with a grain of salt. He makes a good point about not making the reader completely clueless through the entire story. Of course, you need _some_ suspense, but I've read a few where you didn't know what the hell was going on until the very end. Frustrating to say the least. 
And off the subject: it's refreshing to see someone use the word poppycock. Way to work retro:highly_amused:


----------



## Kevin (Jun 1, 2012)

Renaissance Woman...
(ooh, am I kissin up.  high five?  ssh...)
I'm sure the rules _could_ all work.


----------



## Tiamat (Jun 1, 2012)

squidtender said:


> Number five is an interesting one. It brings to mind _fight club_, but makes me wonder if this is only applicable to certain types of stories. And Tia, I see your point, but maybe take that tip with a grain of salt. He makes a good point about not making the reader completely clueless through the entire story. Of course, you need _some_ suspense, but I've read a few where you didn't know what the hell was going on until the very end. Frustrating to say the least.
> And off the subject: it's refreshing to see someone use the word poppycock. Way to work retro:highly_amused:


I agree it's frustrating to not know what's going on, but it's also frustrating to know everything that's going on.  If some cockroaches ate the last few pages of a book I was reading, and I'm not so p*ssed off that I rush out and buy another copy just to read those last few pages, I think the author failed.  If I know how it's going to end before I get there, why should I finish it?

I think I may've posted this before, but take Nicholas Sparks for example.  I've read a total of one of his books (though I've seen a few of the movies).  That book is "Nights in Rodanthe."  Before I even read the back cover, I said to myself:

"Here's what's going to happen.  A man and a woman are going to meet.  One or both of them is going to have serious reservations on starting a relationship.  But, they won't be able to help themselves and they're going to fall for each other anyways.  Then, right when everything seems hunkey dorey, one or both of them is going to die."

I read the book in a day.  I was spot-on.  I will never read another one of his books.  Ever.

_And in a side-note, I'm rather fond of the word "poppycock."  It's right up there with "cockamamie."  _


----------



## JosephB (Jun 1, 2012)

Four it just too simplistic. Writing -- if it’s good enough -- can be compelling, interesting, entertaining etc. without strictly revealing character or advancing the plot. And describing a setting can enhance a story without doing either of those things.


----------



## squidtender (Jun 1, 2012)

Tiamat10 said:


> but take Nicholas Sparks for example.  I've read a total of one of his books



I just love a woman who can admit she's so lame, that she's read Nicholas Sparks. If I ever get rich, I'll make sure I buy you the complete works of Danielle Steel


----------



## Tiamat (Jun 1, 2012)

squidtender said:


> If I ever get rich, I'll make sure I buy you the complete works of Danielle Steel


Awesome!  Kindling!  I'll cancel my newspaper subscription when that day comes.


----------



## Kyle R (Jun 2, 2012)

Tiamat10 said:


> _And in a side-note, I'm rather fond of the word "poppycock." It's right up there with "cockamamie." _



Hmmmm.... I see the common word there that you like. :-\"

:beguiled:


----------



## Tiamat (Jun 2, 2012)

What--chicken?  I know, I know.  I do like me some... you know what?  Never mind.


----------



## Kyle R (Jun 2, 2012)

In regards to number five, I don't think Vonnegut was saying to start close to the end of your storyline (and then revert back to the beginning).

I believe he was referring to the more classical style of storytelling (John Irving comes to mind), when the entire life of your protagonist would be told, from birth (or even going back further, to the courtship of the protagonist's parents), all the way to the climactic plane crash in which he rescues a flight attendant, and they survive huddled together on a snowy mountainside until they are, seemingly against all odds, discovered and rescued three weeks later.

Vonnegut's advice for such a story would be, in my opinion, to say "Start with the plane already in the air", as opposed to starting thirty years earlier. Thus, "as close to the end as possible".


----------



## Winston (Jun 2, 2012)

*Player Piano:* Kurt Vonnegut said he "cheerfully ripped off" the plot of _Brave New World_ for this novel - and Aldous Huxley, in turn, stole it from Eugene Zamatian's _We_.

The sad thing is, I like Vonnegut's style.  But it seems that he, like so many successful people, have built their success on the backs of others.  Vonnegut's _Player Piano _was also "influenced" by Jack London's _The Iron Heel.  _London was sued by an author named Frank Harris for plagiarism of a Harris essay...

I don't think I'll be taking advice from the likes of him.  Or London.  Or anyone else with questionable morals.

Tip Number Nine was omitted:  Steal the intellectual property of others.  Polish it.  Pretend you're profound.  Give free advice to others.  Laugh from the grave.


----------



## Sam (Jun 2, 2012)

The only ones I agree with are numbers six and seven. Throw every horrible thing imaginable in front of your characters and then figure out how the hell they're going to get out of it. And write for yourself first. When you have an audience, then you may write for them.


----------



## Taknovrthewrld (Jun 2, 2012)

Suddenly I have an intense interest in the old Godzilla movies. Thank you.


----------



## JosephB (Jun 2, 2012)

Winston said:


> *Player Piano:* Kurt Vonnegut said he "cheerfully ripped off" the plot of _Brave New World_ for this novel - and Aldous Huxley, in turn, stole it from Eugene Zamatian's _We_.
> 
> The sad thing is, I like Vonnegut's style.  But it seems that he, like so many successful people, have built their success on the backs of others.  Vonnegut's _Player Piano _was also "influenced" by Jack London's _The Iron Heel.  _London was sued by an author named Frank Harris for plagiarism of a Harris essay...
> 
> ...



Questionable morals? What self-righteous nonsense. There are obvious similarities and common elements -- but the same could be said about most dystopian novels. It’s certainly not plagiarism or even questionable -- especially when the author acknowledges the inspiration. (In a typically tongue and cheek way.) It’s ridiculous to suggest Vonnegut somehow did something wrong -- especially when you consider that he went on to produce so many great novels -- as if he needed to steal material from anyone else.


----------



## Kevin (Jun 2, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> In regards to number five, I don't think Vonnegut was saying to start close to the end of your storyline (and then revert back to the beginning).
> 
> I believe he was referring to the more classical style of storytelling (John Irving comes to mind), when the entire life of your protagonist would be told, from birth (or even going back further, to the courtship of the protagonist's parents), all the way to the climactic plane crash in which he rescues a flight attendant, and they survive huddled together on a snowy mountainside until they are, seemingly against all odds, discovered and rescued three weeks later.
> 
> Vonnegut's advice for such a story would be, in my opinion, to say "Start with the plane already in the air", as opposed to starting thirty years earlier. Thus, "as close to the end as possible".


 That's _His_ style. I think a re-read of his works with the 'rules' in mind, might be interesting. The 'more classical style' still works for me, too. There's recent books that can still pull it off well, and, I like history.

@ wins- so literary inspiration is a no-no? the LoTR is an obvious rip-off of the bible(and borrows a whole bunch of other mythology; 'gollum' anyone?)
No more stories about good vs. evil.  
Everything is derivative. These letters were stolen from the phoenecians... (I stole the spelling of it from g-search)


----------



## JosephB (Jun 2, 2012)

Here's a quote from Vonnegut that suggests maybe he wasn't being entirely serious:

"The greatest American short story writer of my generation was  Flannery O’Connor (1925-1964).  She broke practically every one of my  rules but the first. Great writers tend to do that."


----------



## Loulou (Jun 2, 2012)

I look at any rule as a challenge.  How can I bend it, stretch it, turn it inside out, wash it and peg it on the line.  So for that reason I love rules.


----------



## ppsage (Jun 2, 2012)

Kurt Vonnegut? Rules? I think you're missing the point people.


----------



## Kyle R (Jun 2, 2012)

Winston said:


> *Player Piano:* Kurt Vonnegut said he "cheerfully ripped off" the plot of _Brave New World_ for this novel - and Aldous Huxley, in turn, stole it from Eugene Zamatian's _We_.
> 
> The sad thing is, I like Vonnegut's style. But it seems that he, like so many successful people, have built their success on the backs of others. Vonnegut's _Player Piano _was also "influenced" by Jack London's _The Iron Heel. _London was sued by an author named Frank Harris for plagiarism of a Harris essay...
> 
> ...



It took me a while to find that interview (it's surprisingly unavailable through google, just everyone referencing the same wikipedia quote, taken out of context).

Fortunately, I found it through an internet library.

Here's the page where that quote is taken from:







(if the picture doesn't work, you can see it here: http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz285/eightbucket/VonnegutPlayboyInterview.jpg)

Having read many of Vonnegut's interviews, and listening to him speak, I'm sure he wasn't bragging about stealing ideas. He seems more to have been saying, in his notably dry humor, self-depreciating sort of way, "I had this original idea, but wouldn't you know it had already been done before."


----------



## Colin Palfrey (Jun 3, 2012)

It would appear that he has written those tips with the intention of sounding profound, rather than demonstrating any real desire to help anyone.  Just looking at number 1 is enough to tell me that he has no intention/ability to open up and share anything worthwhile.  For a writer I find this quite tragic.  

Looking at Robert A. Heinlein's six rules for being a writer, I think we see a big difference.  They are equally simplistic in nature but rather than pretending to be profound and simply striking a pose, they actually offer something to the reader.

Robert A. Heinlein's 6 Rules:

Rule One: You Must Write
Rule Two: Finish What Your Start
Rule Three: You Must Refrain From Rewriting, Except to Editorial Order
Rule Four: You Must Put Your Story on the Market
Rule Five: You Must Keep it on the Market until it has Sold
Rule Six: Start Working on Something Else


----------

