# Reflection



## Fowly

Why do I run away
Why do I hide my face 
Could It really be
That I am someone else 
In the mirror, That is not me. 
Who am I
I am but a shadow of
The person I used to be. 
Who is she in the mirror
Why does she look like me


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## Firemajic

Fowly said:


> Why do I run away?
> Why do I hide my face?
> Could It really be?
> That I am someone else?
> In the mirror, That is not me.
> Who am I?
> I am but a shadow of
> The person I used to be.
> Who is she in the mirror?
> Why does she look like me?




Helllloooo, Fowly, welcome to the fabulous poetry thread! I wonder how you would feel about removing the questions and making them statements? Do you think that would make this a stronger poem?


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## Fowly

Firemajic said:


> Helllloooo, Fowly, welcome to the fabulous poetry thread! I wonder how you would feel about removing the questions and making them statements? Do you think that would make this a stronger poem?


 
lol is that better


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## sas

Hi,

Last line not logical based upon what was said. Consider:

She used to look like me.

Hope helpful. Sas 
.


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## Darkkin

Fowly said:


> Why do I run away
> Why do I hide my face
> Could It really be
> That I am someone else
> In the mirror, That is not me.
> Who am I
> I am but a shadow of
> The person I used to be.
> Who is she in the mirror
> Why does she look like me



Who, what, where, when, why.  These denote questions, the word itself, not merely punctuation, which in poetry is optional.  It is the difference between asking and doing.  You've removed the punctuation, but the words themselves still hold the questions.  To address the question you need to address the word, leaving no question.  The following is an example of actual statements. 

e.g.

A figure contemplates
fingers trace glass,
a sheer of shadows.
A biheaded coin,
parallel in the plane
one a reflection of flesh,
one the flesh in truth.

Try reading your piece aloud, also try it with the example. Consider what you hear. Also consider that mirrors and reflections are endless. It is a subject that has always fascinated writers, as such, there are numerous poems on reflections. You started with the questions, a good place to start, now test the edges of the box and find the core of the poem...Because as is, you have a basic list of questions, the concept. Flesh out the bones. 


- D. the T.


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## Kevin

I was wondering what you see in that mirror, not some non-specifics, that would cause a person to run away.


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## Nellie

sas said:


> Last line not logical based upon what was said. Consider:
> 
> She used to look like me.
> 
> 
> .



Who says poems (poets) are always logical?


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## Nellie

Darkkin said:


> Who, what, where, when, why.  These denote questions, the word itself, not merely punctuation, which in poetry is optional.  It is the difference between asking and doing.  You've removed the punctuation, but the words themselves still hold the questions.  To address the question you need to address the word, leaving no question.  The following is an example of actual statements.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> A figure contemplates
> fingers trace glass,
> a sheer of shadows.
> A biheaded coin,
> parallel in the plane
> one a reflection of flesh,
> one the flesh in truth.
> 
> Try reading your piece aloud, also try it with the example. Consider what you hear. Also consider that mirrors and reflections are endless. It is a subject that has always fascinated writers, as such, there are numerous poems on reflections. You started with the questions, a good place to start, now test the edges of the box and find the core of the poem...Because as is, you have a basic list of questions, the concept. Flesh out the bones.
> 
> - D. the T.



Many famous poets have written question poems, starting their poem with a question.....



> The Tower
> 
> *by William Butler Yeats
> 
> What shall I do with this absurdity -
> O heart, O troubled heart - this caricature,
> Decrepit age that has been tied to me
> As to a dog's tail?
> Never had I more
> Excited, passionate, fantastical
> Imagination, nor an ear and eye
> That more expected the impossible -
> No, not in boyhood when with rod and fly,
> Or the humbler worm, I climbed Ben Bulben's back
> And had the livelong summer day to spend.
> *



And another by Emily Dickinson:



> How far is it to Heaven?
> As far as Death this way --
> Of River or of Ridge beyond
> Was no discovery.
> 
> How far is it to Hell?
> As far as Death this way --
> How far left hand the Sepulchre
> Defies Topography.


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## sas

Fowly,

It would be nice to have a response, rather than an LOL, to suggestions. I've no idea what that meant, in this context. This is an exchange of dialogue, workshop style group, unless you prefer your poem not to have workshop comments (as I often do here). In which case, state that desire underneath your posted poem. Please.


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## Fowly

Lol you're good. I just found what you said a little dramatic and the picture with what you said made me laugh. In a good way. I didn't mean to offend : O


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## Firemajic

Fowly said:


> Why do I run away
> Why do I hide my face
> Could It really be
> That I am someone else
> In the mirror, That is not me. Here you are saying that you do NOT recognize yourself
> Who am I
> I am but a shadow of*
> The person I used to be. ** AGAIN, you are saying that you do not look like yourself
> Who is she in the mirror*** Here, you are asking "Who IS she in the mirror.... so again, you don't know WHO you are looking at... so, how, in the last line, can she look like you?
> Why does she look like me


Now, in this last line you are saying she looks like YOU... can you see where this is confusing, and does not make sense... so, yeah! A poem DOES need to be LOGICAL in THAT respect, Nellie...


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## sas

Fowly,

Thanks for clearing up.  Those little click responses leave huge gaps & can lead to misunderstandings. I've not seen you respond to suggestions. Please know, they are only suggestions. We respect the poet as final authority. There is no offense, if suggestions aren't taken. Really.


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## Fowly

lol I sometimes respond to suggestions but not always. This is the first time someone has gotten after me for not responding. I didn't know it was a rule?


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## Fowly

Firemajic said:


> Now, in this last line you are saying she looks like YOU... can you see where this is confusing, and does not make sense... so, yeah! A poem DOES NEED TO BR LOGICAL in THAT respect, Nellie...



Wow. Why are you capping? If you guys are going to be fighting over the piece of meat I threw. I'll take it away. I will. xD


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## Firemajic

Fowly said:


> Wow. Why are you capping? If you guys are going to be fighting over the piece of meat I threw. I'll take it away. I will. xD



I took away the caps... is that less offensive? as for your "piece of meat" ....exactly.... THAT is the point... you must not understand the function of the poetry thread....


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## Fowly

Kevin said:


> I was wondering what you see in that mirror, not some non-specifics, that would cause a person to run away.



I have no idea lmao I wrote this when I was like Fifteen. I just wanted to see what kind of reaction I'd get so maybe I could decide if I wanted to write new poetry. So far people have gotten flustered over it so I don't know. xD


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## Fowly

Firemajic said:


> I took away the caps... is that less offensive? as for your "piece of meat" ....exactly.... THAT is the point... you must not understand the function of the poetry thread....



Don't worry about me. I'm not offended. Obviously, you are. I swear are all people on this site as passive aggressive as you? I noticed it awhile back with how you write but I dismissed it because maybe I was wrong. Trying to give people a chance. 

P.S. The piece of meat bit was a joke : P (i wasn't serious dont kill me )


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## Fowly

Firemajic said:


> I took away the caps... is that less offensive? as for your "piece of meat" ....exactly.... THAT is the point... you must not understand the function of the poetry thread....



Constructive Criticism: Try acting a little bit more professional with your peers. Nellie didn't deserve that treatment and neither do I.


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## Nellie

Firemajic said:


> Now, in this last line you are saying she looks like YOU... can you see where this is confusing, and does not make sense... so, yeah! A poem DOES need to be LOGICAL in THAT respect, Nellie...




Maybe she looks like the same person on the outside, but on the inside she's someone else. It DOES make sense to ME, Firemajic!


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## Firemajic

Nellie said:


> Maybe she looks like the same person on the outside, but on the inside she's someone else. It DOES make sense to ME, Firemajic!




Huh? how can you see the difference on the INSIDE, by looking in a mirror......


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## Firemajic

Fowly said:


> Constructive Criticism: Try acting a little bit more professional with your peers. Nellie didn't deserve that treatment and neither do I.




Exactly... you received constructive criticism for some of the best WF has... DarKKin and sas. You seemed to think it was a joke... And I was not being rude, I was simply making a point... as was DarKKin and sas, your poem lacked cohesive logic.


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## Fowly

Firemajic said:


> Huh? how can you see the difference on the INSIDE, by looking in a mirror......




Please leave Firemajic. I'm done trying to get along with you. I half expected you to apologize the first time then I would have apologized about the misunderstanding and we could of putting this behind us. Instead, you're acting quite immature.


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## Nellie

Firemajic said:


> Huh? how can you see the difference on the INSIDE, by looking in a mirror......



with a knife...........


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## Fowly

Firemajic said:


> Exactly... you received constructive criticism for some of the best WF has... DarKKin and sas. You seemed to think it was a joke... And I was not being rude, I was simply making a point... as was DarKKin and sas, your poem lacked cohesive logic.



I don't mind criticism or suggestions at all. When they are suggested in a way that is polite and respectful. You have shown none of that.


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## Fowly

Nellie said:


> Maybe she looks like the same person on the outside, but on the inside she's someone else. It DOES make sense to ME, Firemajic!




Nellie, I gotta say. You've been a trooper and I genuinely like you. The others have their opinions and I respect that, and you showed me your opinion along with it. Had you not I would have had the creativity stamped out of this poem and done what Firemajic had said. Instead, I'm feeling a little inspired to take it in a completely different direction. I'm gonna think on it though. Thanks for all your help! : D


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## Deleted member 56686

Okay, guys. It looks like emotions are starting to get out of control. Let's see if we can get along before I have to close this thread, okay?


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## Firemajic

Fowly said:


> I don't mind criticism or suggestions at all. When they are suggested in a way that is polite and respectful. You have shown none of that.




Fowly, I am truly sorry... I never mean to offend, poetry is my passion and mentoring is one of my greatest pleasures, and I take it very seriously, and I take your work seriously... I guess I became offended when you referred to your poem as a "piece of meat" that you "threw out there".... I felt like you were not serious, and Darkkins and sas's critique was a waste of their skills, talent and time... I truly meant no offence... I hope you can accept my apology ... please ..


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## Firemajic

mrmustard615 said:


> Okay, guys. It looks like emotions are starting to get out of control. Let's see if we can get along before I have to close this thread, okay?




 yessir, Mr. Musty.... I am sorry.... please excuse my faux pas....


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## Fowly

Firemajic said:


> Fowly, I am truly sorry... I never mean to offend, poetry is my passion and mentoring is one of my greatest pleasures, and I take it very seriously, and I take your work seriously... I guess I became offended when you referred to your poem as a "piece of meat" that you "threw out there".... I felt like you were not serious, and Darkkins and sas's critique was a waste of their skills, talent and time... I truly meant no offence... I hope you can accept my apology ... please ..



Don't worry about it C: It was a misunderstanding. I'm happy to see you've calmed down a bit. I can be a little bit nonserious in my manners but I am that way because I've dealt with so much pain in life that I have no choice but to laugh. That doesn't mean I do not take my work, and others opinion seriously. I already cleared up things with Sas and like I told sas: I do not always respond to critique but I do see it and will consider it.

Your reaction to this whole thing is because of a misunderstanding and I will not fault you. You are human. Same as I. : P

Peace! :U


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## Fowly

It's not every day you get to see a fight break out among a bunch of writers! Pow pow! haha


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## Firemajic

Nellie said:


> What point were you trying to make?  You & sas have chased some of the best critiques off with your unwillingness to demonstrate mentoring.




I am sorry you feel that way. It is never my intent to cause anyone to be discouraged.


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## Darkkin

Fowly said:


> I have no idea lmao I wrote this when I was like Fifteen. I just wanted to see what kind of reaction I'd get so maybe I could decide if I wanted to write new poetry.



One thing in writing that needs to be taken into account, if you want actual feedback, is the fourth wall.  As soon as a piece goes up, it is out the writer's hands.  Readers have no idea of your context as to when, where, or why a piece was written all they have is the piece itself.  In this case, it is a piece that reads like the work of a novice writer.  Not much substance.  It is the writing not the writer that is the subject of the feedback.

You post a piece like that, treat it like a shrug it sets the bar for the reader's observations...Writing is a process evolving as we grow, how honest of a representation of your skills is this poem?  You want viable measures you need to be honest and accurate with yourself first.  Look to your foundations.


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## Fowly

Darkkin said:


> One thing in writing that needs to be taken into account, if you want actual feedback, is the fourth wall. As soon as a piece goes up, it is out the writer's hands. Readers have no idea of your context as to when, where, or why a piece was written all they have is the piece itself. In this case, it is a piece that reads like the work of a novice writer. Not much substance. It is the writing not the writer that is the subject of the feedback.
> 
> You post a piece like that, treat it like a shrug it sets the bar for the reader's observations...Writing is a process evolving as we grow, how honest of a representation of your skills is this poem? You want viable measures you need to be honest and accurate with yourself first. Look to your foundations.




This is my first time breaking the fourth wall. You'll have to forgive me xD

Yes I do, would love some feedback. Just as long as it is polite, with respect. I will consider it. 

I will not always take feedback and run with it because, in the end, it is my choice what to do with it. Sometimes I find feedback to be highly rewarding. Something I never thought about someone suggests. I might feel a little guilty for taking their idea but as long as it is done with permission. 

Keep in mind that even if I do not respond right away to feedback. I do see it : 3


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## Darkkin

Critique is observation, opinion, not law.  What a writer does with it is up to them...Again, fourth wall.  Once critique is posted, it is out of the reader's hands.


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## Fowly

Darkkin said:


> Critique is observation, opinion, not law.  What a writer does with it is up to them...Again, fourth wall.  Once critique is posted, it is out of the reader's hands.




Yes, I agree : 3


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## sas

Nellie said:


> What point were you trying to make?  You & sas have chased some of the best critiques off with your unwillingness to demonstrate mentoring.




Really?  Really?  

I have decided, if anyone wants to workshop, I will be in Poetry Workshop group. All there usually understand what a workshop entails...work, given freely and taken, generously by everyone. 

Stop apologizing, Fire. 

.


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## sas

Fowly said:


> It's not every day you get to see a fight break out among a bunch of writers! Pow pow! haha



And, I personally, find no humor in this, Fowly. None.


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## Sebald

Fowly, you sound like you're high or something.


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## H.Brown

Right guys lets make this more civil and get the thread back on track.


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## Fowly

Sebald said:


> Fowly, you sound like you're high or something.




Lol thanks. This is how I am normally though.


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## Fowly

sas said:


> Really?  Really?
> 
> I have decided, if anyone wants to workshop, I will be in Poetry Workshop group. All there usually understand what a workshop entails...work, given freely and taken, generously by everyone.
> 
> Stop apologizing, Fire.
> 
> .




Are you alright dude?


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## PiP

Enough of the personal and off topic comments etc. This thread is now locked.


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## H.Brown

ENOUGH!


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## Chesters Daughter

*You all know me well enough to know that I was not going to turn a blind eye to what transpired in this thread. My internet is down for one day, and this is what happens. It's time for another refresher course, it would seem. 

Did I miss the memo that the Rules were suspended for the day on September 4th because an awful lot of them were breached in this thread. Where to start, hmm, at the beginning. The thread went seriously off topic, a staff directive was ignored and the posts continued to veer off topic in the worst of ways which led to another staff directive to cease, which also wasn't heeded, followed by two more directives and a thread closure. So, four directives issued by three different members of staff in a single thread that ended up locked. If you dismiss a staff directive you are ignoring staff which is a rule breach that can ultimately lend to a timeout from the site. This is the second time I've implored everyone to heed directives in a very short period of time. You know what they say about third strikes.

Time to address some of the off topic comments themselves. Now we all know that posts in creative threads are supposed to be directed at the work, and yes, a little off topic is permissible within reason, but the work itself was completely forgotten and the comments turned extremely personal in a fashion that was unacceptable. Attacks on other members will not be tolerated. Attacks on volunteer staff will not be tolerated. I should not have to remind anyone of this. Anyone who has a complaint with a staff member's performance should contact either a Supervisor or Administrator. Random accusations against staff or other members based upon a personal opinion and not much else blatantly posted in any thread can be construed as flaming, which is also against the Rules and can also lend to an eventual timeout.

I could go on and on about posts in this particular thread, but for the sake of brevity, it's time I generalize. Let's again go over what the Poetry board's purpose is. It is not a playground, it is a school. If you post anything here, prepare to receive critique. Once you post, you open your work to all opinions, positive or negative, so if you can't take honest critique, or feel your work is so perfect it's above reproach, it's better you post your work either to Tavern Poetry or create a blog. If it's solely back pats you seek, share with family and friends because this is a writing site and what you post is taken seriously by your peers. If you don't care about it, why should they? Some of our best critique providers are unfairly being met with hostility for providing assistance. If you don't want help, don't offer up your work for evaluation. By the same token, if you know they don't want to learn, don't waste your time because your time is precious. The underlying hostility between the serious and the flippant has stolen the tranquility from this board and created an atmosphere that is nearly noxious. This constant quibbling has to cease, as does the pot stirring, those who are engaging in that particular bit of nastiness know who they are. Threads are being clogged with off topic chatter about critique so frequently, and it's the same arguments over and over and they are spilling into the personal on the regular now, it's making it difficult for anyone to learn anything. I implore you all, agree to disagree on some points and let's please just move on already. 

Friday marks the tenth anniversary of my joining WF, and in that decade, I've never seen such unrest on the board. The very serious poets and the dabblers have always coexisted with almost no animosity in the past, it's time everyone at least tries to respect the wishes of either side. If you're not seeking critique, post elsewhere, it's not fair to waste the time of others, if they are resistant to honesty or assistance, forgo their threads. Serenity must be restored to both Poetry boards so we can get back to the business of creating, sharing, teaching and learning because that's what we are all here for.

Thank you for your attention. I trust there will be no further threads of this nature. I am leaving this thread unlocked. If you have an issue with anything I've said, kindly contact me via PM. I am more than willing to discuss any issue with any member. Any subsequent snarky off topic comments in this thread will see the poster moderated to the fullest extent possible. *


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## SilverMoon

My great thanks to you Chester's Daughter for unlocking this thread, pointing to the very important. 

As a writer here, there's nothing more gratifying than participating in a thread where there's a healthy "give and take", in the end having learned and more able share knowledge for the betterment of craft. As well as getting to know a fellow writer just a little bit better.

We are not here to cut life short. We are here to write about it. And grow "together" both as artists and human beings.

Thank you again, CD. 

Silver


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## Phil Istine

Fowly said:


> Why do I run away
> Why do I hide my face
> Could It really be
> That I am someone else
> In the mirror, That is not me.
> Who am I
> I am but a shadow of
> The person I used to be.
> Who is she in the mirror
> Why does she look like me



I do like the double meaning of the title, "Reflection", as it portrays the visual image in the mirror and also, the act of pondering; I'm quite a fan of such word usage.
Questions in poems are sometimes said to weaken it. However, this isn't always the case (IMHO).  My own view is that questions are valid in this particular piece due to its reflective, self-questioning tone.
I would substitute lower case for capitals where a line runs over into the next - but I realise that some poets prefer not to do this.


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