# Writing about people you hate.



## Stormcat (Dec 8, 2015)

Several of the antagonists in my work are based off of real-life people I hate. any advice on how to pull this off without sounding too bitter?


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## Red Sonja (Dec 8, 2015)

That's why I had to chuckle at the "inferno-esque" tone of your post about "how would you punish this or that character?" The comeuppance is of course a classic literary device. Since it's a classic, it gets used a lot. Since it gets used a lot, it gets used badly a lot. 

From my point of view, I seldom feel the sentiment of hatred, except perhaps toward inanimate objects such as countertops I've bumped my head against or jars that I can't get open. Particularly with regard to writing, I have to get sort of excited about something else before I can hate a character enough to make him or her seem all that hate-able to my imaginary reader (who's WAAAAYYYY more twisted and particular in such matters than I). 

If you are basing a character on someone you truly hate - yes, this is just my advice based on my own experience, take it or leave it, of course you're going to do what you want anyway - then my advice is DON'T. Just don't. Writing in a particularly pointed style about people he disliked or had dirt on was why James Joyce had to flee Dublin and remain away the rest of his life, lol - just for one example. (Oh sure, he PRETENDED to like having everyone angry at him!). And of course Dante lived his whole life as an exile and an outlaw, while we're on the subject. The subjects of his purgatorio and inferno were people who had wronged him, his family, his faith, his empire, etc. And though his allegory itself is stirring, it didn't exactly make Dante's life more happy and pleasant at the time. 

Base your mean or bad characters on abstractions, myths, or stereotypes, then flesh them in with hateful characteristics after you've created your story. Even if you fully intend (no matter what the risk) to base your character on someone you hate with all his/her little quirks and loathsome appearance, and perhaps his stupid-sounding name, too - render him into an abstraction FIRST. Write the story. Keep his dialog short, sweet, to the point. Get the story done. Go back and put in the hate-able characteristics. By that point the character may have acquired some of his OWN native-to-the-story quirks that will make your story more enjoyable to read and less of an invitation for lawsuit. 

It's the story that's important, anyway, right? Not your characters. Those are secondary to the story. Hating a character will kill your story just as quickly as being in love with him or her will, so try to cull that out of the process. 

Ask editors and slush pile readers what kinds of stories they HATE having to read through as part of their jobs: The "poetic justice" exposition is just about the most reviled. 

Now, you're starting from the opposite end of the question as myself, I realize that: You hate someone, you want to include him/her in your tale as a perfect example of a terrible, loathsome person. I have to put the emotion in before I can make the bad character believable, but you have to make yourself care less. 

Here's a device I've used before, maybe it will help: Your bad character is not someone you know personally anymore. He or she is a stranger you have never met or seen before. Say you're traveling through some desolate area and meet him/her at a bar or gas station. You share a brief conversation and you get a FIRST IMPRESSION of that person without any preconceived ideas. What would that impression be? How would that character's spouse see him? How would his kids see him? How do the other people at the bar or gas station see him? (If you stop hating this person in considering all these things and find it hard to get worked up about him/her after this exercise - well, that's not a bad thing, right?) 

Go from there. In this scenario, you get to know this person bit by bit over time, starting from total stranger to whatever your current relationship is with him/her. 

I hope this helps some! Good luck!


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## Blade (Dec 8, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> Several of the antagonists in my work are based off of real-life people I hate. any advice on how to pull this off without sounding too bitter?



I would go with bitter or sarcastic myself.:thumbl: Sanitizing characters and/or your reaction to them might be politically correct but I think it creates writing that is somewhat stilted and two dimensional.:blue:


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## Bishop (Dec 8, 2015)

Just don't make it obvious. Also, if your villains are 100% unlikable to the point of being not at all relatable to your audience, they might not like them as villains. For me, the most memorable villains are the ones that I actually empathized with. That way, their actions and their inevitable fall had impact on me.

So instead of making me hate the villain to cartoonish levels, try to walk that fine line of me liking the villain, but still wishing them to fail.


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## escorial (Dec 8, 2015)

Hate is a waste of an emotion that has no positives to be used to good effect...making it personal can only lead to negativity...I reckon


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## dale (Dec 8, 2015)

you do it with a subtle sense of humor. it doesn't even have to feel particularly funny to the reader. but
if it feels funny to you in some way? it works well on the page.


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## Stormcat (Dec 8, 2015)

Bishop said:


> Just don't make it obvious. Also, if your villains are 100% unlikable to the point of being not at all relatable to your audience, they might not like them as villains. For me, the most memorable villains are the ones that I actually empathized with. That way, their actions and their inevitable fall had impact on me.
> 
> So instead of making me hate the villain to cartoonish levels, try to walk that fine line of me liking the villain, but still wishing them to fail.



I admit, I try to not make them likeable, or make them so minor they just come across as amusing background events, but sometimes I do end up with a pretty funny caricature.


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## Jigawatt (Dec 8, 2015)

Bitterness should not be evident if you write in third person. The characters might come across bitter. I include in my stories the hurtful actions of others because it adds an element of realism, and because many of these actions are entertaining from an objective perspective. When I was a little boy, an older kid pushed me to the ground and sat on my chest, then proceeded to manicure the lawn by plucking grass blades and shoving them into my mouth. It wasn't humorous at the time, but I chuckled just now as I wrote about it. Don't be too subjective when writing about the people that upset you, and it will come out okay.


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## Red Sonja (Dec 8, 2015)

Both of these are good: 



Jigawatt said:


> Bitterness should not be evident if you write in third person. The characters might come across bitter. I include in my stories the hurtful actions of others because it adds an element of realism, and because many of these actions are entertaining from an objective perspective. When I was a little boy, an older kid pushed me to the ground and sat on my chest, then proceeded to manicure the lawn by plucking grass blades and shoving them into my mouth. It wasn't humorous at the time, but I chuckled just now as I wrote about it. Don't be too subjective when writing about the people that upset you, and it will come out okay.






Bishop said:


> Just don't make it obvious. Also, if your villains are 100% unlikable to the point of being not at all relatable to your audience, they might not like them as villains. For me, the most memorable villains are the ones that I actually empathized with. That way, their actions and their inevitable fall had impact on me.
> 
> 
> So instead of making me hate the villain to cartoonish levels, try to walk that fine line of me liking the villain, but still wishing them to fail.



You're not trying to make the reader hate the bad guy (based on your real-life nemesis) as much as you do. You're trying to make the reader LIKE YOUR STORY and want to READ IT TO THE END. 

Simple old revenge fantasies are like... uh... how does that saying go, again...? 

If you can't put aside your hatred for a real-life person you want to turn into a character for your writing, your portrait will be a caricature at best.


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## Aquilo (Dec 8, 2015)

A disgruntled author on the author behaving bad list, she wrote a novel and killed off all of her negative reviewers in it, just swapping a few letters around in their names. I was one of the negative reviewers, and it gets disturbing seeing your name in a novel just before you're beheaded. Moral of the tale, don't be dumb enough to use real names and traits that someone will recognize, because odds are that they will, and then it could just get very costly. 

I've been killed off in two novels now, but the second one was by a favourite author of mine... and that one... it was worth getting killed for, lol.


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## EmmaSohan (Dec 8, 2015)

It's hard to find people in real life who should be hated. Usually, you hate someone because they have been treating you badly because they hate you because you have been treating them badly. Usually, you are not seeing their complexities. Usually you are focusing on their negatives.

But we were talking about writing. Just as you give the hero a flaw, you explain the villain, or give the villain a good side, or make the villain more complex.


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## shadowwalker (Dec 8, 2015)

If you really want to put a person you hate in your story - don't show it to anyone. Let it be your own little thing, put it in the drawer, and then write another story without the personal emotions providing the impetus. I don't even like putting people I love(d) in my writing because I can't be ruthless with them (ie, their flaws are excused, and they often move toward sainthood). Authors need to _use _their emotions, not be _led _by them.


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## Red Sonja (Dec 8, 2015)

The idea of making your hated person into a minor character, instead of a major one, in your narrative, is in my opinion a good one. Then you can put in every single hated detail, since that character is not doing anything major in the story. Make him/her seem as horrible as you want, if s/he's only going to get a few lines.


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## The Green Shield (Dec 10, 2015)

My advice is to take bits and pieces of what you hate about those people and make a character (well-rounded and developed) with those nasty qualities. Last thing you want is to write a character that's a carbon-copy of those people, have those people find out and give them *perfectly valid reasons* to sue you and make your life miserable all over again. You may as well be inviting them over for tea and dinner. Why would you do that? If you really must write what I call: ‘I Will Make Them Suffer’-Fiction, do so and put it somewhere not where your other works are located.


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## Riis Marshall (Dec 11, 2015)

Hello Stormy

For me this is a catharsis, I do it all the time: create a bad guy and have her or him come to a seriously nasty end. It works well so long as you create a credible character and tell a good story.

But other posters here are right: make it as personal as you want but make your readers hate your character, don't let your own hate show.

In my particular case, it was serious bullying, bigotry and xenophobia that left open wounds I try to heal with my writing.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Bosco (Dec 11, 2015)

I had a coworker who was a pretty despicable person. Perhaps hate is too strong a word, but when I saw her really mistreating someone, I suppose my feelings toward approached something like hate, at least temporarily.

Could I write a character based on her? I'm pretty sure I could. One of the reasons I was able to marginally coexist with her is that I believe I understood what made her tick. I don't see any reason why I couldn't apply that insight and write a multidimensional character, and I don't have any reason to assume that any other writer couldn't do the same.

So take "don't do it" with a grain of salt. It might be a little harder if you're emotionally invested in some way, but the ability to step back and objectively evaluate characters is just another facet of writing talent. I'd say, tap into that strong emotion, hate or love or whatever it is. Just try to write it so a reader will develop those emotions more or less the same way that you did.

Good luck!


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## PhunkyMunky (Dec 11, 2015)

Hmm... I don't feel any strong pull of hatred toward anyone these days. Dislike, disappointed, disillusioned, dispassionate... These may be some words I'd use but hate is not among them. 

I tend to find people I strongly dislike and I will add some portion of them into my stories, if it's suitable. In part, this is because I can understand just how irritating someone like... My Sister in Law can be. The sort of person that makes you want to pull your beard off while shouting "No you moron!" You know, you'd not mind at all if they made their way to the looney bin, never to be seen again. OK, well... I do change my mind here. I DO hate those that think it's OK to commit a mass shooting or other equally BS crime. Two of the latest of these deserves nothing less than to be unceremoniously dumped in the pacific, weighed down so they don't ever resurface. And forgotten. OK, three. That whack job that shot up Planned Parenthood should get the same treatment. These people don't deserve to be remembered, even in infamy.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Dec 11, 2015)

Use their qualities for inspiration, to inspire a reaction in readers. Sure. 

But writing a copy of a real person hardly works out well, unless your writing muscles are Arnold level. And especially if it's someone you dislike.


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## Stormcat (Dec 11, 2015)

I currently have a character who is the sum total of everything I hate in a man, other than appearance. But right now i can't seem to make him "real". He's just a belligerent caveman screaming "ME WANT WOMAN!!!" and I know that's not how real life slimebags work!


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## Riis Marshall (Dec 12, 2015)

Hello Stormy

Nah - some real-life slimebags really work this way. I knew an ex-Army man who took his bride on their honeymoon to the town of his last duty station where he met up with one of his former girlfriends, etc. (Well, he said he did anyhow and knowing this guy it's likely he was telling the truth.) When I was in the Navy, one of my shipmates routinely stopped off on the way home on a liberty weekend and, etc. I also remember one of my shipmates who kept kicking his pregnant girlfriend down the stairs in the hopes she would lose their baby (well they both said they did and knowing these two guys...).

Look around and you'll see them, unfortunately, almost everywhere.

Here's a challenge for you: Make up something truly nasty one of your characters has done and come back to us on this forum. I'm confident I can respond with a real-life example from my own experience (well, not my own, personal experience but somebody I'm familiar with).

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Bosco (Dec 12, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> I currently have a character who is the sum total of everything I hate in a man, other than appearance. But right now i can't seem to make him "real". He's just a belligerent caveman screaming "ME WANT WOMAN!!!" and I know that's not how real life slimebags work!



Maybe your character is the kind of guy who can lull a woman into a false sense of security, with flowers and notes and promises etc. The kind who comes off like a real stand up kind of guy, until he feels like he's got the woman hooked. Maybe you can fool readers too and take them along for the ride, until his true character is revealed. 

Just a thought.


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## Riis Marshall (Dec 12, 2015)

Hello Stormy

And then there was 'Love 'em and Leave 'em McDowell': a guy from the neighbourhood where I grew up. There was a time when he had three paternity suits filed against him almost simultaneously.

You couldn't make it up.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Stormcat (Dec 12, 2015)

Riis Marshall said:


> Hello Stormy
> 
> Nah - some real-life slimebags really work this way. I knew an ex-Army man who took his bride on their honeymoon to the town of his last duty station where he met up with one of his former girlfriends, etc. (Well, he said he did anyhow and knowing this guy it's likely he was telling the truth.) When I was in the Navy, one of my shipmates routinely stopped off on the way home on a liberty weekend and, etc. I also remember one of my shipmates who kept kicking his pregnant girlfriend down the stairs in the hopes she would lose their baby (well they both said they did and knowing these two guys...).
> 
> ...



But how did these guys even "hook" a woman in the first place? they didn't start out abusive, who would date someone who was abusive initially? If A stranger tried to hit me in public, my reaction would be "You brute! Get away from me!" not "How sweet, he must like me!"


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## Riis Marshall (Dec 13, 2015)

Hello Stormy

If I knew the answer to your question I could probably be president of the world. A whole bunch of people, from Homer through Marx and Freud, to the Pope, Lennie Bruce, Kim Kardashian, the Bush family and Donald Trump - or anybody else you might name - claim(ed) to have the answer but so far none has convinced me hers or his is the true path. 

When a question such as yours is asked, my response is that people behave the way they do because their actions meet some sort of need within them. This is close to but not precisely the hypothesis Maslow offers, a hierarchy of needs, in his book _Motivation and Personality_. So these women hang out with these obnoxious men, and as stupid it looks to us from outside, because deep down inside, they are looking for something and they feel their actions will fulfill this need.

Why would anybody be afraid to step beyond his own front door, even to walk a short distance to buy bread and milk or why would somebody stop eating to the point she starves to death just to look slimmer? Why would somebody kill people, cut up their bodies and keep them in a freezer in the garage, or spend £80 for a little piece of silk to tie around her or his neck when going to work? You could keep asking these questions all day. If you come up with an answer, please let me know.

But, never mind; this is the stuff of great storytelling and why we engage in this thing we call writing. Maybe if we look too closely at it, some of the mystery will disappear and we wouldn't want that to happen would we?

All the best with _your_ writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Sonata (Dec 13, 2015)

I have come across many people in my life that I dislike intensely.  But hate someone so much that I wish something bad would happen to them?  No.  Dislike is one thing, but pure hatred?  I do not think that is in me, therefore how could I write about them?


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## Red Sonja (Dec 13, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> But how did these guys even "hook" a woman in the first place? they didn't start out abusive, who would date someone who was abusive initially? If A stranger tried to hit me in public, my reaction would be "You brute! Get away from me!" not "How sweet, he must like me!"



Again, you're not understanding how sociopaths operate (because you're normal). 

You've never known someone who seemed really (maybe really REALLY nice) when you first meet them and then it turns into a "familiarity breeds contempt" scenario where they just treat you worse and worse? 

Sociopaths are masters at building trust. They target those who are easy to exploit: The insecure, the mentally challenged, the financially destitute, etc. They gain the vulnerable person's trust. THEN (once the sociopath is certain he is fully in control) the abuse begins. 

You should be glad that you're normal enough to be kind of puzzled at how folks like that operate.


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## Blade (Dec 13, 2015)

Riis Marshall said:


> Here's a challenge for you: Make up something truly nasty one of your characters has done and come back to us on this forum. I'm confident I can respond with a real-life example from my own experience (well, not my own, personal experience but somebody I'm familiar with).



This sounds like a really good idea to me. There is such a range of despicable behavior it would be very useful here to get a specific situation to get grounded on.:cookie:



Riis Marshall said:


> When a question such as yours is asked, my response is that people behave the way they do because their actions meet some sort of need within them.



I think you have to go with this considering that their actions are found repulsive by the majority of the population.:-k Acting out has to be a subjective imperative as there is usually little apparent value in it otherwise.:grey:



Red Sonja said:


> Sociopaths are masters at building trust. They target those who are easy to exploit: The insecure, the mentally challenged, the financially destitute, etc. They gain the vulnerable person's trust. THEN (once the sociopath is certain he is fully in control) the abuse begins.
> 
> You should be glad that you're normal enough to be kind of puzzled at how folks like that operate.



This sounds reasonable to me. The thing is that generally you encounter the problem well under way, like showing up at a movie rather late, and thus are handed rather skimpy background on the situation.:blue:


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