# I need life advice, I love to write but realize it won't support me



## YoungScholar (Sep 5, 2015)

I guess the short answer is to do what makes me happy but I am at a real roadblock. I am currently in college, I am actually premed trying to get into med school. I like health and biology and obviously you know the high pay if I were to do that. Here's the problem though, I started working on my first book a week ago. I wake up wanting to write, I often lose sleep because I don't want to stop writing. I've never felt passion quit like I have for writing. Writers often cannot make a living and have to pick up a second job. I write so much it is actually getting in the way of my classes and there are often times I have been tempted to move out of college and get a simple job and simply write when I am off. I need some very mature advice. Do I go where the money is and write in my spare time, or do I follow this desire and hunger I have for writing. The love of writing fiction I have is unreal. All of what has happened to me in life I can express in my fiction, all my struggles, all my obstacles I often include in my stories. It is quit spiritual. I simply love it... I do nothing but eat sleep and write, then when homework is due I force myself to get that done.... Is this a problem or an awakening.


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## MzSnowleopard (Sep 5, 2015)

You are in good company my friend. Take a look at some of the great writers whose work we enjoy today. John Grisham- lawyer, Stephen King, worked at a community college when Carrie was published (the advance on this was $ 1,500- according to his word in his book On Writing) Paul Genesse- writes about dragons works in the medical field,  Robin Cook medical DR and writes stories set within the medical field. Some of his best works are Coma, Cell, Brain, Fever, and Outbreak- which was turned into a movie... You see the trend.

Most of these people, well, except Paul, took what they learned, do, and know and applied them to their writings.
It just goes to prove that in most cases, the best advice to be had is 'write what you know'.

Enjoy the experience and welcome to the world of writing.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 5, 2015)

Putting time limits on your writing can keep the urge fresh - it will also teach you self-discipline while allowing you to finish the education you'll need to support yourself while you write.


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## Darkkin (Sep 5, 2015)

I'm a pond ooze level writer, but do know this much at least, start small.  Write as a hobby, first and foremost, finish your education so you have means of fiscal support.  Nearly every writer, with the exception of the Patterson clones, will have a day job to help pay rent and buy dog food.  If your passion for the craft carries through, continue to hone your skills, get involved with writers' groups, forum like this one, (a stellar choice, I might add).

 Look into extracurricular writing courses and see how you fare.  Don't just drop everything and decide, here and now that you need to be, are going to be a writer.  Writers are like jewels, jagged, pitted messes when hewn from the ground, but over time our edges are revealed and refined.  Develop a few edges before you commit to full time writing as Mz. Snow noted, some of the best writers draw directly from the fields they specialise in.

And as to your last question, I'd say awakening...

- D. of Ponds Bottom


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## MzSnowleopard (Sep 5, 2015)

Being a student with it, myself, if you decide to get into a writing course- I highly recommend Long Ridge Writers Group. 
You work one on one with a mentor who has been successful in the industry- people who are active in publication in one form or another. 

Myself, I've worked with J.Ann Helgren a magazine publisher and Tom Hyman, author of Jupiter's Daughter. 

Having learned from their experience has taught me so much, I couldn't possibly know where to begin. 

Courses like LRWG do not come cheap, although there are payment plans. In the end, no matter what course you choose- this one or - rumor has it Writer's Digest has a few courses too- what you learn from your mentors will be as valuable to you as any amount of precious gems or metals.


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## popsprocket (Sep 5, 2015)

The truth is that you already know the answer to this question.

By the time you're college-aged you've missed the boat to daydream about being a famous writer and are much better off continuing down the path of becoming a doctor (or any other career) and writing in your spare time. The fact that you are so passionate about writing is great, but passion does not equal the mix of talent and luck one requires to make a living off their work.

The good news is that writing can be a great hobby to have in much the same way as some people like to paint or to run or to work on cars. The better news is that even if your actual paying work only allows you a few spare hours each week to write, you can still be published and could still put yourself in a position where the writing pays the bills one day.

Be pragmatic first, chase your dreams in spare moments.


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## dale (Sep 5, 2015)

your hunger is gonna be there, regardless. if it ain't? you weren't meant to be a writer, anyway.
go for some money making degree in college. your hunger for writing will still be there, if it's real.
unless you're gonna be a teacher or a content writer? a writing degree will pay off about as much as a degree in panhandling.


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## Mesafalcon (Sep 6, 2015)

I have just accepted the fact that writting for me is a hobby and to enjoy it as that, and my guess is 95% of the rest of this forum, it is not something you can do for a living.

_I guess Pops kind of said this..._


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## belthagor (Sep 6, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> I write so much it is actually getting in the way of my classes



The only advice I can give you is, turn your weakness into your strength. College involves a lot of writing, so plan your classes the way that you can express yourself the most in actual assignments while staying on topic for good grades.


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## Book Cook (Sep 7, 2015)

A romantic would tell you to not do things for the money, but to do things that fulfill you. I'd advise you to first get your life in line. Finish college, get your med degree, get a job, earn some money. In the meantime, practice your writing. You're still too young to contemplate writing as a means off of which you'd be able to live. 

Writing should be your second job, not the other way around. If your works start getting out into the world, and those royalties start pouring in, then--and only then--should it become your first and only job.


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## Phil Istine (Sep 7, 2015)

As others have said, the two things need not be mutually exclusive.
Like most on this forum, I write for fun and it's usually enjoyable.  I like to think that in a few years, I may be able to make a small supplemental income from it.  It's not very likely but it's something that I will work toward.
For the past 25 years, I've been self-employed washing windows.  I earn a decent living from it - mainly because I've invested in quality tools and am prepared to work hard (and because I'm not an employee).  I sometimes combine this with my writing.  I may have a break sitting in my van and something pops into my head.  I either scribble it down or speak the words into a dictaphone-like object.  Although they will never know it, some of the customers are characters in my jottings  - especially that plonker I dropped for not paying and a year later, he phoned me to work for him again.
A window cleaning round could almost be a book in its own right 

Learn your profession.  Write when you can.  Combine the two even.  A very few in this world do not need to earn a living so can go straight into writing.  I imagine that you (and I) aren't one of them.


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## Deafmute (Sep 7, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> I guess the short answer is to do what makes me happy but I am at a real roadblock. I am currently in college, I am actually premed trying to get into med school. I like health and biology and obviously you know the high pay if I were to do that. Here's the problem though, I started working on my first book a week ago. I wake up wanting to write, I often lose sleep because I don't want to stop writing. I've never felt passion quit like I have for writing. Writers often cannot make a living and have to pick up a second job. I write so much it is actually getting in the way of my classes and there are often times I have been tempted to move out of college and get a simple job and simply write when I am off. I need some very mature advice. Do I go where the money is and write in my spare time, or do I follow this desire and hunger I have for writing. The love of writing fiction I have is unreal. All of what has happened to me in life I can express in my fiction, all my struggles, all my obstacles I often include in my stories. It is quit spiritual. I simply love it... I do nothing but eat sleep and write, then when homework is due I force myself to get that done.... Is this a problem or an awakening.




Hey look its me 8 years ago. What are you doing time traveling? 

I will give you two pieces of advice. First off be careful. Medical school is painfully hard, both getting in and staying in. It demands a level of dedication similar to what you describe about writing. I was smart I never had to worry about grades or studying until med school knocked me in the teeth. Don't take that career lightly. If you can't bring yourself to put everything in it then you may get hurt bad. 

Second. writing is art. Art is not something that should come from a desire to make money. Now that is not to say that some people don't make great art solely for the purpose of making money, but in general people who are get to hung up on having their income and their art both hand in hand risk losing both. I want to be published one day. I believe that the fact that I don't need the money from getting a work published will just make it easier for me to make something perfect instead of struggling to get something out in time for my next rent payment. Pursue a career that can make you a living, and enjoy writing for what it is. A way for you to express yourself, a way for you to escape reality. and a way for you to share you fantasy with others. Do that and who know maybe someday people will discover your work and love it too. or maybe someday you will just open up one of your old stories and fall back in love with the memory of it. Either way you won right?


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## ShadowEyes (Sep 7, 2015)

I would say that your success in regards to earning a living from writing depends on how much you're willing to be a businessperson. Publishing is 50% writing and 50% marketing. Some things to consider are:  Which type of writing you do and what your audience will be; Which avenue of publishing you're hoping to pursue; and, How much are you willing to become an online personality with social media/blogs/podcasts?

If marketing doesn't appeal to you, then you may have to stay entirely traditional and fish for an agent, submit stories to various magazines/journals/contests, etc., and let publishing houses market for you. Personally, this appeals to me because I'm excited to take the risks and own the capital.

It's not impossible to go either route, and although there are naysayers who say that mid-line writers are bunk nowadays, I think they're wrong. Lots of people self-publish and live off it. I simply think that the big publishing houses only look for bestsellers. ^_^'' Just depends on your level of dedication not only to your writing, but to the quality of the writing and to the audience.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 8, 2015)

ShadowEyes said:


> Lots of people self-publish and live off it. I simply think that the big publishing houses only look for bestsellers. ^_^'' Just depends on your level of dedication not only to your writing, but to the quality of the writing and to the audience.



Just a couple of quick notes:

"Lots" doesn't really mean anything - particularly when one looks at "lots" of these writers who claim to live off their writing and find that a) their partner or parent is paying the bills or b) they've already got their money via trade publishing or c) they actually work part-time or d) they're like me and have a very low standard of living.

Second, no, publishers are not just looking for best-sellers, although that would be the ideal for them. But they can't exist only on best-sellers any more than the average person can exist on lottery winnings. They want books that will sell steadily, whether or not it's meteorically.

Third, the level of dedication doesn't guarantee any amount of money. No matter how much work one puts into writing and audience, that doesn't mean your _prospective _audience is actually going to want to buy your book. Readers are capricious - they tend to choose books regardless of authors' efforts, or lack thereof.


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## stevesh (Sep 8, 2015)

OK, I'll be the impractical one. All the advice above is well-meant and you should probably heed it, but I think pursuing something like writing fiction for your living  requires the passion you say you have, the talent to produce commercially viable work and (here it comes) an 'all in' attitude. You can have a lot of fun writing as a hobby, but if your goal is to write for a living, do that. I don't think you want to look back on your forty-year medical career and think, "That was OK, but I wish I had tried harder at the writing thing".


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## YoungScholar (Sep 8, 2015)

Well now I am at a hault of what to do. I'll post my first chapter tonight or tomorrow and if everyone likes it or notices a talent I might get a simple job and write.


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## Darkkin (Sep 8, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> and if everyone likes it or notices a talent I might get a simple job and write.



Use a trace of caution, when making statements like this.  People liking your writing or saying you have talent on a forum is a far cry from the harsh reality of the world.  I've been a writer and a reader my entire life, my first manuscript written in fourth grade.  I've been told I have talent, told my writing is good.  I majored in English at both undergraduate and graduate levels.  I did it because of my love of the written word, story for the sake of story.  Still haven't figured out the whole metaphor thing... 

And what do I do now?  I work at a bookstore.  Have I gotten anywhere with my writing?  Storywise, yes, fiscally, no, and I don't ever expect to because of _what_ I write.  Humoursly enough, I was informed I was an uneducated moron because I used punctuation in my poetry.  Wasn't funny at the time, but with hindsight it made me realise why I write: To keep some trace of what I treasure in literature alive.

 Personally, I still think my work is an affront to any being with the capacity to read.  As to what you term a simple job, don't settle if you have a chance to further your education.  Because if you settle for something that will easily bore you, it will begin to fester and corrode your creative capacity.  Go as far as you are able, keep writing as a hobby, but do not make it your life raft.  Tread lightly, observe the world around you, and weigh you options.

- D. the T. of P.B.


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## ShadowEyes (Sep 8, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> Well now I am at a hault of what to do. I'll post my first chapter tonight or tomorrow and if everyone likes it or notices a talent I might get a simple job and write.



I would recommend to write a first book simply as a practice book, just to get yourself familiarized with the process. Or even a bunch of short stories.

You may or may not be ready for the level of intensive writing that a novel requires. If writing improves with time and ideas improve with age/maturity, then all writing is practice till you get to the point where your writing means something to you _and_​ you're able to express it.


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## YoungScholar (Sep 8, 2015)

Being at my age I have a great opportunity to write a book with a unique voice and perception. I am done with chapter one, I would say I am different kind of writer. I will link it in this forum on this thread possibly. Another thing to my advantage is that my writing is simple yet deep, for the most part anyone can read it, I love the action and thrill idea, my writing has such a broad audience base that honestly anyone would read the book I am working on if I get it done well.


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## AtleanWordsmith (Sep 8, 2015)

That's great to hear, YS.  I suggest posting your chapter/excerpt in the *Prose Writers Workshop*, though, so that you can retain your first rights and everything.  More secure that way.

Best of luck to you!


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## Darkkin (Sep 8, 2015)

You've got some really big ifs going on.  If you finish, if you do it well...If...A word to the wise, before you determine what the general public's reading preferences are, take a visit to the local bookstores, talk to the people who work the front lines of the literary world.  Some of the observations might surprise you because, while it is a simple job, these people are first and foremost, readers.

You've passed the Trial of Ten posts so you can post work for critique.  Also before you do so, take a look at some of the other threads, read through them, and don't be afraid of giving a critique: what did you like, what worked, what didn't.  By making observations about other writers' work, you become more attuned to recognising similar issues with you own.  Critique, while it might seem tiresome is an invaluable tool in honing your craft.  Take observations with a grain of salt.

- D. the T. of P.B.


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## YoungScholar (Sep 8, 2015)

Thank you. I am so grateful to have picked up this passion at what I consider a young age. I plan on crafting myself as a writer, getting better every single day. I am so wrapped up in my book I often dream about it. Whether I pursue a medical career, or simply pick up something related to writing such as journalism or perhaps a blog. I don't know yet, but honestly I am going to do what I want to do. What is the point of living, if all you care about is money? You get a job you don't like, just to make money to keep on living doing what you don't like? It doesn't make sense. I'd rather live a short life doing things that I love then a long life spent in a miserable way. Nathanial Hawthorne, Edgar Allen Poe, many of the writers I look up to had an all in attitude, and honestly, with me, If I am not cold turkey about something I cannot produce anything worth your time. Thank you all for the comments, inspiration, criticism, and best of all, concepts to think about. I am well aware of my chances and the sacrifice, but honestly it motivates me even moreso then before. I have a craving that can only be fulfilled by writing, if I go a day without out it, it's as if I am starving and must eat again. I found my purpose, and plan to sharpen the one sword that was given to me, rather then keep a hundred dull.


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## popsprocket (Sep 8, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> What is the point of living, if all you care about is money?



This is probably the single most common existential question of people who want to pursue an arts career. It's also an entirely moot notion.

Don't get me wrong. You should do what you like. Everyone should do whatever they like. But at the end of the day it's entirely possible to get a job you _do_ like that will keep you housed and fed, and pursue your other interests at the same time. I wish I could find the article where I originally read the statistic, but it said something to the effect of most writers who dedicate their lives to the work starting in their early twenties doing all the writing, marketing, and networking - all the leg work - normally aren't in a position to support themselves with their writing alone until they are into their thirties. If you're college aged now that means you've got a good ten years of not being able to pay the bills with a pen, _assuming you could get your first book published in the next year or two_.

I guess all I want to say is be very careful that you don't chase a fancy and find it leads you over the edge of a cliff.

Also, a blog isn't going to make you money. You have a better chance of trade publishing a book than you do making a living off an online presence.


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## ShadowEyes (Sep 8, 2015)

popsprocket said:


> ..._assuming you could get your first book published in the next year or two_.



Eh, Pops, remember it took Sanderson five books before he got one published. He started writing The Stormlight Archives in college, too, but he had to work his way up to it, fiscally and professionally.


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## popsprocket (Sep 8, 2015)

ShadowEyes said:


> Eh, Pops, remember it took Sanderson five books before he got one published. He started writing The Stormlight Archives in college, too, but he had to work his way up to it, fiscally and professionally.



That's the point of the statistic. Of writers who were published in the early twenties, those that were able to support themselves from writing alone were into their thirties before they had enough readers and sales to quit their day jobs. If that logic holds then it might take a person 10 years to build up the kind of fanbase and reliable sales statistics that can earn them a comfortable income. If your sixth book is the one that gets published then, depending on how prolific you are, it could set you back years and years.


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## Bard_Daniel (Sep 8, 2015)

I would agree with many of the others here. You have to be realistic about how much writers make. Most of them do not support themselves solely from their writing. Study something useful and write in your spare time. It doesn't make you any less of a person and doesn't mean you're less of a writer.

Sometimes, too, the job can fuel the creativity. Look at some of the greats: Hemingway (Journalism), Joseph Conrad (Seaman), Stephen King (Schoolteacher), etc and etc.


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## YoungScholar (Sep 8, 2015)

I am thinking of possibly doing journalism. Maybe travel. Who knows. A lot I need to think about. I'm posting chapter 1 now in PROS.


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## YoungScholar (Sep 9, 2015)

I love hiking and am thinking about buying a camera. I love nature and the beauty of the seasons. I could picture myself traveling, capturing the moments, and writing articles about were I go, including the pictures I take. I'm a hiker too; one of my goals is to actually climb the top 7 summits in the world. I could use my photography and writing to record all those interesting things I plan to do. I know that I trot on unstable ground, but for once in my life, I am starting to paint a picture for myself, where in fact it is I the one with the brush. Everything up to this point has been painted for me. Journalism, writing, and adventure. It sounds too good to be true. I have always been forced into science and math, so I might take an English and Journalism class, perhaps even creative writing. That's were my heart really is.


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## bazz cargo (Sep 9, 2015)

A reputation as a writer helps to sell books. Fame helps. Look at how many 'autobiographies' are on the best seller list.

The thing is, living by the pen can be just as much of a treadmill as any other job. Probably why so many lawyers write detective fiction.
Good luck


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## Bishop (Sep 9, 2015)

Get a job that pays, write on the side. Writing isn't going anywhere. Your food supply IS. Writing is free, but living is not. Writing does not pay. It doesn't. For some writers, they win the lottery and people pay to read their work, but if you depend on that, you'll be in rags and full of hope and nothing to show for yourself.

Me? I work in IT by day, and write all the time. My job is demanding, takes a large chunk of my time, and stresses me out sometimes. But it pays for a very comfortable house, a beautiful wife, and a computer that could process and power a space shuttle. Which I use to write. And power virtual space shuttles. I'd rather be writing a novel every few months for free in a fine leather computer chair then scraping for pennies and scribbling dozens of novels a year in notebooks on a folding chair.

Your heart, your passions... they're all wonderful, wonderful things. But unfortunately, we live on Earth. Passions and loves like this need to be pursued--pursue as much as you possibly can... while also pursuing a steady paycheck.


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## ppsage (Sep 9, 2015)

What I don't get here is what the immediate decision concerns? Whether to take a different class next quarter? Whether to look into changing a major? Whether to drop out and sit on a corner with a thirties Underwood making up poems for passersby? I regret not taking writing more seriously at your age, but that would have just meant keeping it in the options I had, not dropping everything else. Life happens one small step at a time with lots of room for contingencies and mulligans.


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## YoungScholar (Sep 9, 2015)

I am most likely going to just change my classes. I have science and math based classes and I hate it. I am getting interviewed to write for the college newspaper. Next semester I might take a study of Western Culture and Classic of Literature. I just need to change my major.


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## Bishop (Sep 9, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> I just need to change my major.



I would recommend not being an English/Lit/Creative Writing major. I am one of those, and it did me NO favors in my job hunt, and did little for my writing ability. I would have been able to learn more by studying IT and getting a degree that matched my marketable skills and writing and reading on the side. Trust me.


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## HeightenedState (Sep 10, 2015)

Wow, we're in the same position!

I did social sciences in college and now I am finishing my master's degree in development, but sometimes I spend too much time regretting my decisions for not choosing creative writing or literature as disciplines.

After consulting with all the lovely people here in WF, I've realized that as long as you write, nothing will stop you from doing what you want. I guess my background in the social sciences is also helping me give a certain voice that creative writing majors do not have. Maybe that's just me. 

I'm really getting unhappy with my job right now which involves a lot of technical writing. I just want to do creative nonfiction for the rest of my life. I am also a photography enthusiast -- I have a mirrorless camera which I bought to tickle my fancy for the craft. It really supplements my writing! I love photography and writing nonfiction. If you have some spare money, I say go for the camera! It will do your creativity more good. 

Now the question of course will still boil down to making a living out of writing. Just what the others have mentioned here, writing is a difficult thing to depend on for resources. But that won't make you less of a writer. I suggest you keep some "sacred hours" for yourself to write fiction. Maybe allot two hours everyday to write. 

Write, write, and write, but don't lose the practicality of keeping your resources given whatever is in your context or situation as a person. 

Unless you become really unhappy with what you're studying, then maybe it's time to change your track. Until then, carefully reevaluate yourself and don't forget to talk about it with your family. 

Good luck and I look forward to reading your work!


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## shadowwalker (Sep 10, 2015)

Yeah, unless you want to teach English, or work your way slowly up the ladder to those 'exciting' jobs in journalism, I'd steer clear of the English (or related) major. I'd try to find some occupation you like and study for that. Sure, take a few creative writing classes if you want, but remember what you're trying to achieve - getting a job that you don't hate and that will still support your writing habit.


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## Phil Istine (Sep 10, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> I am most likely going to just change my classes. I have science and math based classes and I hate it. I am getting interviewed to write for the college newspaper. Next semester I might take a study of Western Culture and Classic of Literature. I just need to change my major.



Sure thing.  If you dislike what you are currently studying, then change it.  Money isn't the sole reason for existence - but it's damned handy for giving you the base to pursue the things that you _do _enjoy.


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## YoungScholar (Sep 10, 2015)

The only math/science class I do enjoy is Computer Science. Perhaps I might get a simple job after college working with computer networks, and on the side writing my books.


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## ppsage (Sep 10, 2015)

There is also the question of why one is in college. Now I love taking classes just for entertainment and still do occasionally. It's cheaper than the cinema if you add up the hours. It's also a great place to explore and expand one's interests. But the thing is, with the cost of education now, most young people will only get one chance to get the employment advantages which higher education provides, and probably they ought to take advantage. This will sound funny but I personally wish I'd studied accounting. It's totally portable, one never lacks employment opportunities, you can quit and get another position the next day, it has significant self-employment possibilities which don't need much capital to realize, and it's totally easy to leave at the office. Can also be seasonal. There are jobs out there which have reasonable remuneration and don't rule your life. Information technology is like this, if my son's an example. If there is such a thing as a wise young scholar (I'm dubious, wasn't me) then he/she can walk away from college with several new assets in their life basket, including grounding in employment skills and enlarged understanding of personal interest.


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## MABKing (Sep 10, 2015)

You are not alone!  I love writing.  It's a strong desire that keeps me always thinking.  I set limits though on my writing.  I am also in college (sort of), I take classes online for my bachelor's in communications.  I have to set aside an hour or two each night for just school work.  After that, I dedicate the rest of the time to whatever I want (usually writing). 

Keep working on your career.  You can work in the medical field as well as become a great writer!


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## stan (Sep 11, 2015)

It's a tough one.  If you are a writer you will write no matter what.  It will define you.  The easy answer is 'Follow your dreams'  it's the only direction worth travelling.

As to cash- J.K was totally skint with a family before she was inspired to write "Harry Potter'.

Stan.:cookie:

"Love Will Tear Us Apart" - Ian Curtis & Joy Division.


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