# First Person Present



## EmmaSohan (Jun 30, 2015)

We hardly ever get to over-analyze first person present.

Criticisms? Comments? Disagreements? If you don't like it, why? If you do like it . . . why?

To me, there are two slightly different styles in first-person present. The one I love is being inside the main character's head. This is a typical example: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...drey-young-adult-excerpt-shopaholic/22418127/

The main character probably has agoraphobia. Kinsella wants us to feel what it's like to be inside her head. Hopefully that's an interesting story, but it should also help with empathy.

When people say they don't like first-person present, is this the style they don't like?

Smaller excerpt:
So I waited till they left, got my key, got my money and the camera, and just left the house.
Which I haven't done for . . .
I don't know. _So _long.
We live about twenty minutes' walk from Starbucks, if you're striding. I'm not striding. But I'm not stopping either. I'm going. Even though my lizard brain is poised to curl up in fright, I'm managing to put one foot in front of the other. Left, right. Left, right.


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## scrub puller (Jun 30, 2015)

Yair . . .

*EmmaSohan


*Where and why would you use it? . . . sounds very limiting to me.

First person can be a pain. 

I have just converted a 90,000 word manuscript from first person to third . . . and then to deal with tense? No thank you. (big grin)


Cheers.


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## J Anfinson (Jun 30, 2015)

Looks to me like they're mixing tenses. Should be "I wait until they leave, etc."

Present tense is fine with me as long as it's the best way to tell the story. Sometimes I've found it to cause issues with revealing things I don't want the reader to know just yet, so I've switched to past. For instance I imagine it would be a real challenge to hide that your Mc is the killer if you're telling the story as it happens. On the other hand, maybe there's something you want the reader to know that you can't put up front in a past tense story. I think there are reasons for using any tense, and maybe some authors are just more practiced with some tenses than others (though I view that as a handicap). If you enjoy writing in present, that's great. Just bear in mind it's not always the ideal choice.


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## InstituteMan (Jul 1, 2015)

I've experimented with writing in first person present, and it struck me as useful for building tension in the story. I think would be exhausting for both the reader and the writer in a long story. The Handmaid's Tail is probably my favorite example of the use of first person present, and that's certainly a tense story.


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## EmmaSohan (Jul 1, 2015)

J Anfinson said:


> Looks to me like they're mixing tenses. Should be "I wait until they leave, etc."
> 
> Present tense is fine with me as long as it's the best way to tell the story. Sometimes I've found it to cause issues with revealing things I don't want the reader to know just yet, so I've switched to past. For instance I imagine it would be a real challenge to hide that your Mc is the killer if you're telling the story as it happens. On the other hand, maybe there's something you want the reader to know that you can't put up front in a past tense story. I think there are reasons for using any tense, and maybe some authors are just more practiced with some tenses than others (though I view that as a handicap). If you enjoy writing in present, that's great. Just bear in mind it's not always the ideal choice.



The first person present narration can't say everything the MC is thinking and perceiving. Is there an agreement that all important things are told? I don't know. I broke that agreement once. My MC got off the horse, walked to a fork in the road, and she knew she was going to go straight but didn't mention it in the narration until it happened.

But in the short excerpt, we don't know why she is going to Starbucks, even though she does. So that would be a second example.

John Grisham breaks it in a major way, almost as much as the MC being the murderer and not mentioning it.

John Grisham also writes his first-person present as though the main character is narrating to the reader (instead of us being inside the head of the MC). I think Stephen King does too. It's a small distinction, but maybe important. I am guessing that people who do not like reading first person present will not mind his style. His book begins

I am a lawyer and I am in prison. It's a long story.
I'm forty-three years old and halfway through a ten-year sentence...


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## J Anfinson (Jul 1, 2015)

EmmaSohan said:


> The first person present narration can't say everything the MC is thinking and perceiving.



Not totally. They're telling the story as it happens, but the author can choose to leave some things out. For instance, who wants to read every detail of a boring car ride? Instead, the story automatically picks up when they get where they're going, and who knows what the character might have been thinking about during that ride. Let's take that premise for a test drive. Let's say I ended the last chapter with the MC getting in his car. He's pretty mad by this point. He doesn't even know what he's going to do.



> I drive to the bar. Inside, the bartender looks up at me with a scowl. I laugh, thinking about how easy this is going to be. He finishes polishing a glass and sets it down on the counter.
> 
> "You again," he says.
> 
> ...



However, if he had already killed the bartender it'd be pretty hard to hide. It's likely to be weighing heavily on his mind, and will be coming out in thoughts. I think you have to consider human nature when deciding what you want to reveal. No matter what it has to be believable.


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## Kyle R (Jul 2, 2015)

EmmaSohan said:
			
		

> We hardly ever get to over-analyze first person present.
> 
> Criticisms? Comments? Disagreements? If you don't like it, why? If you do like it . . . why?


As a reader, I love it. It feels like the character is speaking to me while the story happens, which I find particularly immersing.

It's like I'm Jiminy Cricket, hitching a ride on Pinocchio's shoulder. :encouragement:


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## Terry D (Jul 2, 2015)

Ain't this horse dead yet?:deadhorse:


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2015)

> Ain't this horse dead yet?


 No sir, we must teach the next generation to swim, how to tie their shoes. Naturally, they'll have questions about the why. After all, there are such things as flip-flops, and how about not going in the pool?

edit: no offense, Emma. I was only speaking metaphorically. I find these threads instructive. I think others might too.


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## Terry D (Jul 2, 2015)

Kevin said:


> No sir, we must teach the next generation to swim, how to tie their shoes. Naturally, they'll have questions about the why. After all, there are such things as flip-flops, and how about not going in the pool?
> 
> edit: no offense, Emma. I was only speaking metaphorically. I find these threads instructive. I think others might too.



I don't have any problem at all with the same questions come up over and over as new members join looking for answers. Writer's block, outlining vs pantsing, dialogue tags, we see them again and again and we will continue to see them brought up by folks who have never been part of the bazillion previous conversations; that's perfectly okay. I do get irritated, however, when, people who have participated in those discussions, who have started many of those discussions, ask the same question again, and again. Are anyone's thoughts going to change from last week to this?

We can sum this up pretty quickly; Any POV and tense is fine as long as you write it with skill; Some people prefer one over the other for reasons which have been discussed many times. Are we so unoriginal that we can't come up with something different for more experienced members to discuss?


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## EmmaSohan (Jul 2, 2015)

I think we can do better than just "write with skill".


J Anfinson said:


> Looks to me like they're mixing tenses. Should be "I wait until they leave, etc."



For me, first person present is not good for describing the events that lead up to a scene. Compare

Jonathan drives me to the airport, stays with me while I check in, then walks me to the security gates.

Jonathan drove me to the airport and stayed with me while I checked in. Now we're standing before the security gates.

I don't want the reader inside the MC's head imagining a trip to the airport and checking in, because those are boring. I do want the reader imagining the two of them standing before the security gates, that's where the whole scene takes place.

So instead of jumping ahead in time to going to the airport, I just ahead in time to standing at the security gate, then filled in the setting using past tense (for events which are not in the past of the story time).

My guess is that's what Kinsella was doing with "So I waited till they left"


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## Kyle R (Jul 2, 2015)

J Anfinson said:
			
		

> Looks to me like they're mixing tenses. Should be "I wait until they leave, etc."


It's okay to mix past and present tense. Present tense narrators still have the freedom to talk about past events. :encouragement:


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## J Anfinson (Jul 2, 2015)

There's no need to include boring writing no matter what. End the scene making it obvious where they're headed and open it with them there, at the point where it's about to get interesting again.

As for using past tense, it should only be done to describe something that already happened before the narrator is describing it. Otherwise it's not truly being told in present. How can I be narrating my life as I'm living it if I suddenly say "so I waited"? I can only wait. Either that or choose not to narrate until I'm ready to again. Keeping to one tense is what makes it realistic.



Kyle R said:


> It's okay to mix past and present tense. Present tense narrators still have the freedom to talk about past events. :encouragement:



Absolutely.  If it happened before I'm talking. Maybe this is another one of those things I think too hard on *shrugs*


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## Kevin (Jul 2, 2015)

I had thought I was going to comment about this 'mixing of the tenses', but now I've changed my mind. No, instead I decide to wait and see what will happen. I sit here pondering and pondering, my mind, wandering while wondering...


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## Kyle R (Jul 2, 2015)

J Anfinson said:


> Absolutely.  If it happened before I'm talking. Maybe this is another one of those things I think too hard on *shrugs*


I know what you're saying, J, and I agree with you. I think you might have missed the full excerpt, though. See the link in Emma's original post. The past tense was used by the narrator to explain how she got to where she is in the present.

Kind of a, "Right now, I'm doing this. But first, let me tell you how I got here . . ." deal. :encouragement:


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## J Anfinson (Jul 2, 2015)

Kyle R said:


> I know what you're saying, J, and I agree with you. I think you might have missed the full excerpt, though. See the link in Emma's original post. The past tense was used by the narrator to explain how she got to where she is in the present.
> 
> Kind of a, "Right now, I'm doing this. But first, let me tell you how I got here . . ." deal. :encouragement:



Aha. I stand corrected.


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## EmmaSohan (Jul 2, 2015)

Kevin said:


> I had thought I was going to comment about this 'mixing of the tenses', but now I've changed my mind. No, instead I decide to wait and see what will happen. I sit here pondering and pondering, my mind, wandering while wondering...



laughing. (Because it's clever.)

When you describe the now of the story time using past tense, events before that get past of the past, also called past perfect. Events in the future get the conditional, (future-in-the-past)

I was now studying the sunset. The sun had risen yesterday and it would rise tomorrow, but I was liking today.

If the present of the story is described in present tense, it's straightforward: Past in past tense and future in future tense.

I am now studying the sunset. The sun rose yesterday, and it will rise tomorrow, but I like today.

A third possibility is that people don't like first person present tense when it's done wrong. The start of a book:

On the single most important day of my life, I wake up with the thought: _Oh crap, where are my panties.
_
Nice hook, I guess. But, isn't she waking up with the thought that this is the most important day of her life? That's kind of the rule -- we are hearing what the MC is thinking. How can we crawl into her mind that way?

Next. One of the advantages of first person present is that the narration is the thoughts of the MC. So a thought tag isn't needed, and italics aren't needed to indicate a thought.

A typical first person in-her-head would probably be

Oh crap! Where the hell are my panties?

And who the hell is that guy and why am I in his bed? This is the most important day of my life, and this is how I start it?


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## K.S. Crooks (Jul 4, 2015)

I enjoy first person, as it generally gives more insight into the thoughts and reasons for the main character. However, most people don't remember which tense a book is written in after they read it. The only one I remember is the Hunger Games is written in first person-present tense. I will say that a first person story written in past tense does tell the reader that the character is alive at the end. If this needs to be a surprise then you may need to change to present tense or third person POV. Past tense does make me feel sometimes that I am playing catch up with the characters and story because the events have already happened.


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## EmmaSohan (Jul 5, 2015)

K.S. Crooks said:


> Past tense does make me feel sometimes that I am playing catch up with the characters and story because the events have already happened.



If that was true, it would be a great argument for present tense.

Sports announcers sometimes use present tense (he drops the ball) and sometimes use past tense (he dropped the ball). You can think of your first-person past tense narrator as being like a sports announcer, describing things as they happen.

Sometimes the author wants to you do that, and sometimes the author makes that difficult.


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## J Anfinson (Jul 5, 2015)

K.S. Crooks said:


> I will say that a first person story written in past tense does tell the reader that the character is alive at the end.



Not true. I'll give an example as a spoiler.

[Spoiler2=Spoiler. Do not click if you don't want an ending spoiled] Odd Thomas [/Spoiler2]


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## EmmaSohan (Jul 5, 2015)

We have a lot of ways to show what someone is feeling and thinking wit hindialogue. Like emphasis, grammar, cadence, ending punctuation, disfluency, and repetition.

In first person present tense, these all can be easily used in the narration too.

IT'S A CRUSH! It's just a _crush_. Thank God. It doesn't mean anything and it goes away.

We don't want to imagine a third person narration of this:

Jade realizes that her feelings for Alex are just a crush. Now she knows they don't mean anything and will just go away.

And if we add some excitement, does it sound like the narrator is excited instead of Jade?

Jade realizes that her feelings for Alex are just a _crush_! Thank God! She now knows they don't mean anything and will go away.


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