# 10 Rules for Writing Fiction



## Bishop (Apr 25, 2014)

Part 1. 

Part 2.

Been perusing these and wanted to pull a KyleColorado and start a discussion. Take a look at some of the lists on those... erm... lists of lists. Do you agree with any of them? Do you think any of them are ridiculous? I know I do.

Of those that I agree with, the only list that I can say I agree with most of what's said is Neil Gaiman's. And I love that he ends at 8, saying that's it.  Also, a lot of them put in "Write what you love/what you would want to read" and I agree whole-heartedly with that one.

But what do you think? Do you have your own ten commandments of writing fiction/poetry/erotic neuroscience articles?


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## Greimour (Apr 25, 2014)

> *1* Are you serious about this? Then get an accountant.



Serious about what? Writing? What do I need an accountant for? Beta Reading? Spell checker?... I am only writing and I don't need an accountant to write. Nor do I need an accountant to sell it... maybe an agent. The contract with a publisher? No, don't need an accountant for that either.. maybe a lawyer or solicitor... For handling my royalties? I think I can handle that myself but if I use an accountant for my expenses anyway, sure, I will throw any royalties etc... in with the accounts job - it's what s/he is paid to do already after all. 



> *2* Read _Becoming a Writer_, by Dorothea Brande. Then do what it says, including the tasks you think are impossible



OMG, I wondered how Stephen King, George Lucas, Shakespeare, Hemmingway, George Martin and Charles Dickens became so good in their respective fields or crafts... surely they all read Dorothea Brande! 

-.-''


There were so few comments I actually agreed with from what I read.

I don't have my own command list but I do think there are things that a vast majority of writers do; should do, or; should consider doing.

*1.* Read. You walk before you run, you read before you write. You can learn as much from reading work that is written properly as by writing and being told what you are doing wrong.

*2.* Research. No point writing about Pirates if you don't know anything about them. Stating they drink rum is a pirate thing, but without research, would you have known Pirates drink rum? Do you know why? Do you know what caused them to lose limbs? Did you think it was battle that was the primary cause? 
Likewise, no point writing about wall street even in fiction, if you don't know how stock markets work.

*3.* Write a story you would like to read. Self explanatory I think... the passion of your work will show in your writing and help elevate what is written to a higher appeal.

*4*. Have fun whilst writing. Your writing will progress quicker when you are enjoying it. Getting stressed and bogged down will only cause procrastination and work unfinished. 

*5.* Don't worry about the opinions of others. Until your story is written and your characters are alive... there isn't even anything for them to have an opinion on. No one has to see your work. You wrote it for you, if you share it with others, that is a gift you gave to them. Until it is finished, the only person to please is yourself; all other decisions about the work come after completion so don't worry about senseless things before the due time.
*
6.* Give some time between completing it and re-reading it. Begin a new project or read a different book. After time has past, read it all without editing anything from start to end. Doing so will let you have a fresh perspective on work that is overly familiar to you. It will help let you see your own mistakes and help in the tidying of it. It may even reinvigorate you and bring back your passion for the piece. Editing as you go may change the tone or voice of the piece - where reading it all will show how you could make changes in the beginning that improve the ending or how the ending may be improved based on the beginning. 

*7.* Don't worry about prose and perfection on your first written attempt. Undue worry will only hinder writing and skills to write it perfectly first time will come with practice and time. 
*
8.* Don't be daunted by edits and rewrites. Having completed it once will quicken the process for the rewrite. Comparing rewrites can also boost your passion for a piece and give you insight to the story you never had before. If anything is worrying you prior to completion, dismiss it. Nothing except the joy of the piece itself should be on your mind prior to completing it.

*9.* Listening to my rules or the rules of other people may only hinder you. The rules change at each step in the process on the way to publication. The rules that matter are dependent on which step in the process you are up to. As far as writing goes, it starts with the first draft - in the first draft, the only thing that matters is; that you understand it and know what is going on... you and no one else. Future drafts will have to be rectified, but that's then. Take one step at a time and write.

*10. *The most important rule about writing... not limited to fiction: Write! Whilst you are wasting time reading these rules about writing, you are breaking the biggest rule... which is to actually write. Though, I suppose in fairness, you are following a rule that is almost equally important. Which is reading. ^_^


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## Clove (Apr 25, 2014)

Obviously those lists are meant to entertain than to be serious modes of instruction that every writer should adhere to. To read them as anything other than interesting, humorous, and perhaps occasionally informative, is to miss the elephant in the interwebs: that no list is ever definitive, and most people only find fault with writing lists that have on them tasks the writer themselves never do. You can disagree all you want with one point, but at the end of the day whether you argue for or against the reading of Keats - which, by the way, should always be _for_ - you are not the one rolling all the way to the literary bank. 

I particularly enjoyed Margaret Atwood's writing, as usual.


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## Sam (Apr 25, 2014)

Next, please.


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## Kyle R (Apr 25, 2014)

Bishop said:


> Been perusing these and wanted to pull a KyleColorado and start a discussion.



Lol!

True, in more ways than one (I posted this same list nearly a year ago!) http://www.writingforums.com/threads/138866-Writing-Advice-from-Thirty-Published-Authors

:grief:

Fun to see it again, though. I enjoy reading some of the more snarky authors who mock the whole list format, while still participating in it.


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## Kyle R (Apr 25, 2014)

Bishop said:


> But what do you think? Do you have your own ten commandments of writing fiction/poetry/erotic neuroscience articles?



I think my number one rule is a quote from Henry Ford:



Whether you think you can, or you think you can't—you're right.


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## Greimour (Apr 25, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> I think my number one rule is a quote from Henry Ford:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether you think you can, or you think you can't—you're right.



Is there only that one rule you adhere too? ^_^

***

.. Is no one else going to post 10 rules? Fun, Humorous, Serious or otherwise? >.<

***


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## Ixarku (Apr 25, 2014)

I thoroughly agree with Leonard's list.

I like this one too:  "Finish the day's writing when you still want to continue."  I try to practice this.  I work at night, and it's easier to fall asleep afterwards on a high note, rather than with a lot of anxiety or disappointment hanging over my head.

I live by this one as well:  "A problem with a piece of writing often clarifies itself if you go for a long walk."  I go for a walk daily at lunch for 20 minutes or so.  It gets me away from my cubicle at work for a while, and I always try to use the walk as an opportunity to think about where I'm at on my story.  I've found a lot of inspiration while walking around Trout Pond.

"If you use a computer, constantly refine and expand your autocorrect settings."  People actually use autocorrect?  The only thing I trust about autocorrect is its ability to correct the spelling of the word "the".

"Beware of clichés... There are clichés of response as well as expression. There are clichés of observation and of thought – even of conception. Many novels, even quite a few adequately written ones, are &shy;clichés of _form_ which conform to clichés of expectation."  This is an excellent observation and well worth heeding.


Lot of other good stuff there, and plenty that doesn't matter to me.  My other big rules are, "Finish what you start," and "If it's not clear in my mind, then it won't be clear to someone else.  Figure it out."


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## Skodt (Apr 25, 2014)

I don't follow any rules. I write what I want when I want and however I want. This is not in regards to how other have wrote, nor is it in regards to how others think I should write. I do this hobby for myself and I think that trying to adhere to rules and regulations makes you stress and turns writing into a chore.


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## ChrisK (Apr 25, 2014)

Greimour, I think your rule number 9 is the rule that overrules all other rules, in that rules change depending on your stahe of the process, or your style of writing, or your personality, or ...... etc... if you get what I mean.
I totally agree with number 3 as well, write what you would read. Rereading your melancholy poem should make you feel melancholy, telling your joke should make you laugh, reading your thriller should raise your pulse. 
If I could be so crass as to borrow some of this as simplify to my own list:

1. Do it because it's important to you - Some will like it, some will not. What's important is that you do.
2. Know your material - That's the research, but sometimes you know it because it's personal.
3. Make people believe it matters - The balance between personal and insular, help them relate (or not, maybe you just want to reach those who can relate anyway)
4. Give a piece of yourself away - Artistically not commercially
5. Revisit - first drafts are great, but often not truly great, most great artists stepped away from them work and came back before creating a master piece

OK, so I only have 5, but if I write them twice there would be ten.


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## Greimour (Apr 25, 2014)

ChrisK said:


> OK, so I only have 5, but if I write them twice there would be ten.



That made me laugh ^_^


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## bazz cargo (Apr 25, 2014)

1/ Talk to myself while writing, especially dialogue.
2/ Never push my bladder's limits.
3/ Leave alcohol alone until after writing.
4/ Choose my mood music carefully.
5/ Keep my spell checker on but don't trust it.
6/ Don't sit still for too long, get up and move about before deep veined thrombosis sets in. 
7/ keep at least two pages open, one for story work and one for character references and notes. 
8/ KISS
9/ Never pick my nose while operating a keyboard.
10/ Late at night avoid drinks containing caffeine.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 25, 2014)

I automatically ignore any "rules" writing, particularly those that begin with "Never" or "Always". Most writers come up with lists of things that have, in the past, worked for them. They may or may not work for others, they may or may not work for them in the future. I have only rule for myself - write the best story I can.


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## Kyle R (Apr 25, 2014)

I could only come up with six at the moment, as my fiancé is pestering me and making funny noises. So, here goes my list!


1. *Know the expectations of your genre*. Learn what beats your target audience wants and expects to encounter in your category of fiction. They seek out your genre for specific reasons—know them well.

2. *Don't be afraid to break out of the box*. Learning what's worked in the past can give you a solid foundation to work from, but don't let that discourage you from doing something different. Many of today's accepted norms started out as groundbreaking and original. If you believe in what you're doing, there's a chance you might be creating the next new standard!

3. *Don't listen to the naysayers. *There will always be critics, and those who want to discourage you. Don't listen to them. They don't matter unless you let them. Focus on your own path. You're the one with the most impact on whether or not you succeed—everyone else is just on the sidelines. 

4. *Love your characters*. Readers feed off the energy and enthusiasm of the author. Don't just view your characters as archetypes or plot tools—view them as living, breathing beings. If you love your characters, it'll show in your writing, and there's a good chance your readers will love them, too.

5. *Kill your distractions*. Whether it's surfing the web, watching television, or just plain twiddling your thumbs—your story won't write itself. Whenever you find yourself goofing off during the time you've set aside to be productive, ask yourself, "Is what I'm doing now helping me succeed with my goals?" If the answer is no, exercise some self-control and kill the distraction.

6. *Don't give up*. Success is not an overnight thing. It takes persistence, dedication, getting knocked down, bruising your knuckles and skinning your knees. You'll probably get rejected, and rejected again, but it's okay. So did all your favorite authors. The one thing that separates them from the failed authors is the failed authors gave up—whereas the successful authors didn't. Decide which type of author you're going to be.


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## Dave Watson (Apr 25, 2014)

Some great wee nuggets of advice there I think. Liked the one about reading your own work as a stranger would, or even better an enemy.


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## Plasticweld (Apr 25, 2014)

A lot of great advice that I can not really expand on.  I write maybe for different reasons than most. I don't  need or ever want to write for money, I have all that I need. Not for recognition, I have more than I would have ever dreamed of. 


I have stories or ideas that roll around in my head, some are great, some only a handful of people would find interesting. I have the time of my life when during the coarse of the day I am going over the story that I am planning on writing, I write a lot of non-fiction so in my head I go over the details of how I am going to tell the story so that it is as interesting to the reader as it is to me.  By the end of my day I am excited to put down the ideas excited about doing the research,  I have had all day and see the story come to life. It is complete escapism for me.  For me the number one rule is.  If your going to write think about it first and get excited about it, everything else seems to follow.

I do have one question not addressed that I have often wondered about, it maybe cliché but do writers who smoke weed ever write things of merit?  I know only a few writers personally and this is not un-common with them. I get the impression here, that like alcohol, it is to be avoided .   Your thoughts?


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## stormageddon (Apr 25, 2014)

Doubt this will be of use to anyone besides myself, but I do enjoy the sound of my own (virtual) voice.

1. Where tea fails to inspire, hot chocolate will do the job.
2. Don't worry about how inevitably camp one's characters will be.
3. Put as much human-ness in as possible - whether good or bad, it gives the story purpose.
4. Put as much you-ness in as possible; you're fabulous, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
5. Build the biggest ego you can, but always listen to others' opinions and strive to improve.
6. Try to write during the day, because your friends think it's creepy that you're nocturnal.
7. Make a point. Preferably several.
8. Your friends and family may be disinterested in your writing, but let's face it - you're awesome.
9. Jelly beans. Candy floss. Sherbet lemons. But dear God, never licorice.
10. Come head-cold or flu, migraine or evisceration, break-up or death...just write. It's what you're best at, no matter how terrible you might be. And if you are terrible - who cares?

And Plasticweld - it's not weed, but many of the old greats of the poetry world were off their heads on opium for much of their writing. One such poem was something about a pleasure dome, I forget the details but it's pretty famous.


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## Greimour (Apr 25, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> 1. Where tea fails to inspire, hot chocolate will do the job.



Made me smile, but for me, I start with coffee move on to tea in times of desperation and hot chocolate when stress calls for time-out. ^_^



stormageddon said:


> 6. Try to write during the day, because your friends think it's creepy that you're nocturnal.



Too late for me on this one. I have become cathermeral(metaturnal). I am Nocturnal by nature but I present myself during daylight hours to prove I am not a vampire or of the undead social circle.



stormageddon said:


> 7. Make a point. Preferably several.



I like that. Might add it to my own list of things to achieve whilst I write. I like to include facts in my stories that people may not know - I am especially keen to use real facts that people think are just fictitious parts of my story. Like Pirates being Egalitarians is considered by certain researchers to be a historical fact. So I included that about my own Pirates in a Fantasy WIP - in the hope people would not know it's actually based on real Pirates.
However; having a 'moral of the story' is something I am always working on.



stormageddon said:


> 8. Your friends and family may be disinterested in your writing, but let's face it - you're awesome.



Too true. +1



stormageddon said:


> 9. Jelly beans. Candy floss. Sherbet lemons. But dear God, never licorice.



Hahahahahaha. Agrees wholeheartedly!



stormageddon said:


> 10. Come head-cold or flu, migraine or evisceration, break-up or  death...just write. It's what you're best at, no matter how terrible you  might be. And if you are terrible - who cares?



"'It's what you're best at, no matter how terrible you might be." - haha... if that was applied to someone other than yourself and stated as a fact - it would be the funniest(worst) pep talk in history. 
- "You are terrible at making giraffes from balloons, they look like giant lollipops. Unfortunately, you are far better at that than anything else you do. So keep it up."

Fortunately, you don't seem to be in such an unfortunate position. Your are already showing the ability to write. ^_^

**************

P-Weld.

I would never advise someone to take drugs to enhance their creativity. Whether or not it can or even can not do such a thing is not a question I will talk about in case it implies recommendation to use illegal substances. What I will say is... advising someone to do anything that may be considered illegal should be avoided and is the reason I will not be giving my personal view on a public forum. 

^ Take from that any interpretive meaning you like.


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## Dave Watson (Apr 25, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> I do have one question not addressed that I have often wondered about, it maybe cliché but do writers who smoke weed ever write things of merit?  I know only a few writers personally and this is not un-common with them. I get the impression here, that like alcohol, it is to be avoided .   Your thoughts?



I think like any rule it depends on the writer. Drug use isn't for everyone, but in my experience weed can certainly influence and enhance creativity. Right enough it also often inspires an urge to veg out with a tube of Pringles and the Xbox. I'd say it's unfair to say stoners can't write though. I'd imagine many big names have smoked their fair share of bowls.

Just to reiterate what greimour said, I'm not in any way saying anyone should partake of any illegal practice. Only relating my own experience for the purpose of discussion!


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## T.S.Bowman (Apr 26, 2014)

I only have two "rules".

1)Write what I like to read.

2)Say to hell with any list that is written by someone who thinks they know the rules.


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## Dave Watson (Apr 26, 2014)

As it's a bit of a touchy subject, I'll start a thread in the Sensitive Research board regarding the use of drugs and writing, so anyone who'd like to get into that particular debate should do so there.


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## Cran (Apr 26, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> 1. *Know the expectations of your genre*. Learn what beats your target audience wants and expects to encounter in your category of fiction. They seek out your genre for specific reasons—know them well.
> 
> 2. *Don't be afraid to break out of the box*. Learning what's worked in the past can give you a solid foundation to work from, but don't let that discourage you from doing something different. Many of today's accepted norms started out as groundbreaking and original. If you believe in what you're doing, there's a chance you might be creating the next new standard!


This. Mostly because it's an iteration of my favourite Rule 2*.

_*Rule 1 - Know the Rules; Rule 2 - Know how to break the Rules, with style._


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## Sam (Apr 26, 2014)

I don't buy the whole "you need to know the rules to break them". 

Do you need to know the traffic laws to break them?


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## shadowwalker (Apr 26, 2014)

Sam said:


> I don't buy the whole "you need to know the rules to break them".
> 
> Do you need to know the traffic laws to break them?



The only rules I believe in for writing are grammar and spelling, so for me, you have to know the rules in order to break them _intelligently_. Otherwise it will be obvious they've been broken out of ignorance - and that gets pretty ugly.


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## qwertyportne (Apr 26, 2014)

I like the analogy between writing a story and driving a car. If you're just beginning to drive, you ought to pay more attention to the rules than to what you think is the correct way to proceed. As you acquire more experience, you can and probably should spend less time paying attention to rules and more attention to traffic, the flow of words creating your story. Paying strict attention to rules might keep you from seeing the here-and-now situations your characters are experiencing. 

Which brings me to another point about rules: When I began writing stories, I followed the rule to outline my stories. That rule told me to decide where my story will end, choose a starting point and write toward that ending. I needed that rule when I first began writing fiction, but I gradually discovered my characters are in control of where the story is going, not me. I'm just the pencil.

_Plot is no more than footprints left in the snow after your characters have run by on their way to incredible destinations. Plot is observed after the fact rather than before. It cannot precede action. It is the chart that remains when an action is through. That is all Plot ever should be. It is human desire let run, running, and reaching a goal. It cannot be mechanical. It can only be dynamic. So, stand aside, forget targets, let the characters, your fingers, body, blood, and heart do._ ~ Ray Bradbury


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## Morkonan (Apr 26, 2014)

Morkonan's One Rule to Writing Fiction - Keep the Reader Reading


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## Cran (Apr 26, 2014)

Sam said:


> I don't buy the whole "you need to know the rules to break them".
> 
> Do you need to know the traffic laws to break them?


No, but it takes an expert to break them _with style_.


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## Schrody (Apr 27, 2014)

*"Using adverbs is a mortal sin" *:rofl: [-(

Tnx, Bishop, I haven't had such a good laugh for some time.

Edit: it's obvious I didn't go further than first rule, I can't bare so much laugh.


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## stormageddon (Apr 27, 2014)

In this instance, Bradbury's opinion was expressed without the "in my opinion" disclaimer, so it can be safely assumed that Ixarku's was following on from that, and not intended as factual statement. In my opinion.

More importantly: "An opinion is only wrong if I don't agree with it." 

Which brings me to my eleventh writing rule: The only rules worth following are your own.

It's clear from this thread that everyone has rules, even if they are as simple as "don't impose rules on yourself". It's also clear that rules are very subjective, and other people's are better taken as advice (some here has been very useful) or entertainment than as fact. For example, the "never use adverbs" rule - just no. I'll be damned if I'll part with a single one of the poor blighters v.v


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## W.Goepner (Apr 27, 2014)

Ten rules? 

1) "?" simple. A question of who, what, when, where, why, and how.

2-7) Define each of rule one. Define each to a place or point of recognition and understanding. Sort of like an outline. It can be difficult not running tangents in this manner, but keep them to a minimum, if possible.

8 )  Enjoy, others said it I will repeat it. Enjoy what you write. Love, laugh, hope, cry, and anticipate. Every aspect of your MC on through the one name character. (Bob) If you write this into the places where you feel these emotions then your readers will also.

9) When description is necessary. Define the pleasant places to the point you want to be there, the dark places that you wish to run away. Of course these are not always necessary, but they help.

10) As much as it pains me to say it Sarge (Sam) is right. Just write. Try not to tangent write but get it done. Finish the piece then reread it and edit. Maybe not the first time through but many times after. If you seek advice within any part of your piece you might fall short of your idea and then it most likely will fail. I stress most likely. Getting other opinions on an idea with out the front or rear known to the reader/adviser, is a big "?" How can any one advise on a open ended statement. That is like "What color should I make her eyes?" Goes back to #1-7. It also reflects to my thread an outlines, some times they are needed other times no.

I know I cheated, there are only five there. 

These are problems I have run into myself. Through the treads I have read and the way others place their questions, I see a pattern. That pattern is what I listed above. These appear to be what "NEW" writers face quite a bit. 

These are what I struggled for five years with in writing "The Searcher." For the better part of the first four years I wandered if the first chapter was all I would write. Each time I sat to write more I read and reread it, adding a tidbit, a pinch, and even a flavor. (not so much a flavor but a small amount) Then last year my sister bought myself and my mother a trip to Maui. There in the evenings where we did not have any activities I wrote. Through the remainder of the summer I dedicated time to the story. All the time I had a burning question in the back of my mind, about the MC's wife. I wrote around it and I think I came up with a unique solution. Believable or not, I am not sure if it will make any one go "ugh." Refer to rule 10.

In October I asked my cousin to beta read for me. She pointed out the confusion in the beginning. I proofed it four more times Editing out the kinks as I recognized them. After seeking help from independent editors and one publisher. I found the Writers Forum. I have learned a lot here. The biggest is, not may want to tackle this big of a piece. Not even a little at a time.

Well I rambled off on my own tangent here. Sorry.

 Personal experiences are what make these rules unique. As many have said, there can be set rules for how or what or why a person writes. Each is unique to the writer and in such, anything anyone takes away from these, is what they want or need, to boost or motivate, their senses and creativity. Anyone, that says there is, or should be, a definitive set of rules is delusional. There is NO WAY to put rules on the imagination, it can be guided, molded, and stretched, but never, can the imagination be ruled.


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## W.Goepner (Apr 27, 2014)

Ixarku said:


> I think Bradbury is flat out wrong.  And the reason is what I see as a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of the "pantsers" about what outlining entails.  Plotting and outlining doesn't mean you force your characters down some arbitrary path just because that path happens to fit your view of where the story should go.  It doesn't mean that you have to start with a predetermined ending and channel everything in the story towards that singularity.




Screeeeeeeech! Hit the brakes. "I" will not even read the rest of this post, because you missed something here. IMO



> _Plot is no more than footprints left in the snow after your  characters have run by on their way to incredible destinations. Plot is  observed after the fact rather than before. It cannot precede action. It  is the chart that remains when an action is through. That is all Plot  ever should be. It is human desire let run, running, and reaching a  goal. It cannot be mechanical. It can only be dynamic. So, stand aside,  forget targets, let the characters, your fingers, body, blood, and heart  do._ ~ Ray Bradbury



There is NOWHERE in this quote that says he does not believe in outlines or that they are restrictive. 





> _Plot is no more than footprints left in the snow after your  characters have run by on their way to incredible destinations._


  Plot! if you interpret that as outline then you might be wrong again. Most of us know and understand outlines are not but a guide to achieving the end. To work a predetermined plot is restrictive is what Bradbury was saying IMO. It is like racing on a "slotcar track", most cars are equal of power and ability, guided by a predetermined slot and course. The determining factor of the outcome is only in the abilities of the person behind the controls. Where if you write along a general guideline such as Remote Control course there are undetermined factors is that the cars can interact more readily, the plot is open to many avenues. 

Yes Bradbury can be wrong. Pilots and other such persons must and do plot courses of action. A race course is plotted, Thus outlines are plots. But not Reinforced concrete tunnels that cannot be bypassed or exited somewhere along the way. IMO

And If you do not like My opinion. Good! that is your right. But please do not place too much into or on it. We do not know each other That well. I mean, I do not believe I am the sole opinion of your life or works am I??


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## Kyle R (Apr 28, 2014)

Whoops! Double post.


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## Folcro (Apr 28, 2014)

Bishop said:


> Been perusing these and wanted to pull a KyleColorado and start a discussion.



When I read the thread title I was sure it was another one of his.


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## Jeko (Apr 29, 2014)

I guess the only 'rules' I always follow are:

1) Write every day
2) Remember, you're getting better at this.
3) Try to finish what you're started, even if you finish it halfway through the story.
4) Put 'rules' in the title of a thread, and it will get a lot more replies.

For any other 'rules' it simply depends on whether I choose to apply them to my work.


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## Kyle R (Apr 30, 2014)

Getting back to the OP, there's another rule I'd like to add to my earlier list:

7. *Don't be realistic—that road leads to mediocrity. Be unrealistic.* Reject any notions of your own limitations. Reject the advice of others to temper your dreams. Decide, with every fiber of your being, that you're going to do what others think can't be done. Then—do it.


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## Sam (Apr 30, 2014)

That's a rule? 

Seriously?


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## Kyle R (Apr 30, 2014)

One I believe in, yes. :encouragement:

[video=youtube;Chzz3M0spWM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chzz3M0spWM[/video]


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## W.Goepner (Apr 30, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> Getting back to the OP, there's another rule I'd like to add to my earlier list:
> 
> 7. *Don't be realistic—that road leads to mediocrity. Be unrealistic.*



I truly like Will Smith. He has a way of doing and being that I adore. For him  this works. 

I refuse to believe it to the entirety for what it sounds like. It is not that final. If someone tells a story and it is too out there to even come close to being real. It usually fails.

My biggest complaint when introducing new players into a game of Dungeons & Dragons is when that person brings the impossible weapon into a knife and sword fight. Ergo, the mega ultra supper death ray gun.

If you, (in general) are one that lives in that; I am invincible, I can never be stopped, I will never die, nothing can kill me, you have noting I cannot counter... Then the abstract non-realistic is your norm. go write magenta because you do not live in a real place. (I am sending you my "hug me" Jacket) 



> Reject any notions of your own limitations.



Rejecting your own limitations. Yes I agree whole heatedly. When one accepts limits either self imposed or otherwise they settle for a norm of mediocrity. Limits are restraining.



> Reject the advice of others to temper your dreams.



Now that depends. If tempering your dreams, is to say to a 55 year old that is not in the best of conditions, and does not have the 4 or 5 million dollars to hitch a ride to space, to quit dreaming of going then maybe that is realistic tempering. But to say the same to the 5 year old, that is daunting and repressing, Because with determination and education it can be achieved.

If the advice of others is to smooth over a hard to digest point, one that could make or break the plot, thus the story, maybe it needs to be at least considered.



> Decide, with every fiber of your being, that you're going to do what others think can't be done. Then—do it.



Error, Error. You are breaking your own rule.

This is the most realistic statement of your whole line here. Allowing others to tell you that *it* cannot be done *then* believing it. *I know I have been faced with a father that, nothing was good enough and I was never smart enough to do anything on my own. Even though I was a straight A student through the seventh grade, after that I gave up on trying to please him.* 

The thing is, if you think it try it. If it does not work then fix it. Yes I even contradicted myself.


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## ToriJ (Apr 30, 2014)

My immediate reaction to this thread title was, "There are rules to writing fiction?" I'm pretty sure I broke all of them by now.

Rule three stands out the most to me because a year ago I remember reading "said is dead" an advice by writers suggesting to avoid the word like the plague in place of several substitutes meant to convey more emotion to the reader. I'm tempted to follow rule three in this case because I find looking for a suitable replacement to a word that works to be more tedious an experiment than helpful. When I do replace said with something it's normally a word people know right off the bat anyway.


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## Sam (Apr 30, 2014)

Said isn't dead. In fact, it is the most invisible word in the history of literature because nobody ever notices it -- and that's exactly what a writer requires.


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## Jeko (Apr 30, 2014)

> 7. *Don't be realistic—that road leads to mediocrity. Be unrealistic.*



I'd say this applies to creativity more than anything else, and is more of a personal choice that one can make. For other matters, such as the writer's process, realism is sometimes what you need to get work done. I can aim to write 10,000 words an hour, but it just won't happen. By aiming to write that much, maybe I'd write a little more - but I'd be lying to myself every day, and I can't keep that sort of thing up.


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## Kyle R (Apr 30, 2014)

W.Goepner said:


> I truly like Will Smith. He has a way of doing and being that I adore.



Same here. :encouragement:



			
				W.Goepner said:
			
		

> I refuse to believe it to the entirety for what it sounds like. It is not that final. If someone tells a story and it is too out there to even come close to being real. It usually fails.



Well, we can look at writers like Kelly Link, who have made careers out of writing unrealistic and absurd stories. But mostly, that statement was referring to how we look at our own chances of success. _Realistically speaking_, it's unlikely for a person to become a successful writer.

So what?

What good will it do me to beat the odds of failure into my head? Will doing so help me become a better writer?

Stephen King was being realistic when he tossed his manuscript for _Carrie_ into the trash. Realistically speaking, his writing career was going nowhere. Realistically speaking, the dozens of rejections he'd racked up told him all he needed to know—that he simply wasn't good enough.

Fortunately, his wife had an _unrealistic_ belief in him and his writing, and the rest is history.



			
				W.Goepner said:
			
		

> go write magenta because you do not live in a real place. (I am sending you my "hug me" Jacket)


Jack will always be considered "crazy", or at the very least, "overambitious", by those around him—until he succeeds. 

Then, suddenly, everyone will lie about how they knew Jack would make it all along.


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## ToriJ (Apr 30, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> Stephen King was being realistic when he tossed his manuscript for _Carrie_ into the trash. Realistically speaking, his writing career was going nowhere. Realistically speaking, the dozens of rejections he'd racked up told him all he needed to know—that he simply wasn't good enough.
> 
> Fortunately, his wife had an _unrealistic_ belief in him and his writing, and the rest is history.



I didn't know any of that about Stephen King. That really put things into perspective.


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## Kyle R (Apr 30, 2014)

Cadence said:


> [...]realism is sometimes what you need to get work done. I can aim to write 10,000 words an hour, but it just won't happen. By aiming to write that much, maybe I'd write a little more - but I'd be lying to myself[...]



By your own admission, aiming for an unrealistic goal might give you a greater output. Voila! That's the whole point, right there.

The way I see it: it isn't so much about guaranteeing success—it's about rocketing past the doubts that others get snagged upon.

Given the choice, I will always choose *delusional confidence* over *realistic expectations*. The former, I find, is simply a superior productivity tool.

That's just my own wacky perspective on things, though. :encouragement:


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## Jeko (Apr 30, 2014)

> Given the choice, I will always choose delusional confidence over realistic expectations. The former, I find, is simply a superior productivity tool.
> 
> That's just my own wacky perspective on things, though.



I prefer realistic confidence. I build my life on a foundation of truth, and I do the same for my writing. I may be writing fiction, but if I am honest at every turn, that fiction becomes more and more like the world I live in.

Different folks, different strokes.


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## Sam (Apr 30, 2014)

Delusional confidence is the reason why shows like X Factor exist. 

I'd rather realistic confidence as well.


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## Terry D (Apr 30, 2014)

There is only one sure-fire, can't-miss, must-follow rule to writing the perfect novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what it is.


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## stormageddon (Apr 30, 2014)

Sam said:


> Delusional confidence is the reason why shows like X Factor exist.



Ah, but it's also the reason Doctor Who exists. And television, for that matter. And the Internet, and by extension, this site.
Unfortunately, it's also the reason you all have to put up with me >.>


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## W.Goepner (Apr 30, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> Sigh. This is what drives me nuts. People who say "Oh yeah, you say you don't plan, but - you really do.". Plan one sentence ahead - "See? You're really a planner...". It's like the friend who insists that you really do like that gal/guy, but just won't admit it. You could loathe the gal/guy, but that friend "knows better".
> 
> Yeah.



What I wrote was not worth posting. It made me no better than what I read here.

So I pressed cancel.


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## W.Goepner (Apr 30, 2014)

Terry D said:


> There is only one sure-fire, can't-miss, must-follow rule to writing the perfect novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what it is.



WHAT! Nooooo,

You mean I missed it? 

Now I will never feel the elation of it.

Oh wait, you said Perfect Novel. Whew I am not perfect in any manner.


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## shadowwalker (May 1, 2014)

W.Goepner said:


> It made me no better than what I read here.



No idea what that means.


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## bookmasta (May 1, 2014)

Sam said:


> Delusional confidence is the reason why shows like X Factor exist.
> 
> I'd rather realistic confidence as well.



This. Since I write slice of life books, realism is a factor I try to keep in mind whenever I'm plotting my projects. Though, for the most part, I think most of us as writers have filters anyway when it comes to what we do and don't incorporate into our stories to keep them from going too far south in terms of being unrealistic.


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## W.Goepner (May 1, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> No idea what that means.



It means that "I" took offense to what was posted and wrote a flame that I thought better about posting. Which is how I read what was posted to the other person. I interpreted what was posted as YOU taking direct offense to their thoughts. 

In general I would like every one to, *Please quit taking things that someone** says as a personal** affront to you!* Just because they find it hard to accept does not Mean SHIT to you personally. Or should not anyways.


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## bookmasta (May 2, 2014)

Warning: Please keep this thread on topic. Flaming will not be tolerated.


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## Greimour (May 2, 2014)

Ah we derailed: (Thought you went bed books) 

*Rule 11:* Be sure to know whether you are a planner, plotter, jotter or seat of your pants writer - it will help you manage time accordingly and allow you to find the time of day that you are most creative.

*Rule 12*: Adhere to advice from Ernest Hemingway, he is smarter than you.

*Rule 13*: Only listen to Hemingway if your memory is better than that of a goldfish.

*Rule 14:* When your book reaches a point that it begins to annoy you, print a copy of it - setting fire to that copy can alleviate high amounts of stress.

*Rule 15:* Be sure to follow correct health and safety procedures when setting fire to a copy of your work that has annoyed you.

*Rule 16:* Adhere to rules laid out by Greimour, he is smarter than his nails (who insist on growing longer than necessary despite the pointlessness of it)

*Rule 17:* Do not adhere to the rules of Greimour if you are sensitive about your work on a level that can potentially make you weep tears of blood.

*Rule 18:* Join writingforums.com and seek help and advice from the clever members of said forum - your writing can only improve if you take the time to learn from some of their exceptional members.

*Rule 19:* No matter what rules you follow, or even don't follow... Rule 18 is by far the best rule you will ever encounter in regards to "rules on writing"

*Rule 20:* Refer back to rule 10. Why aren't you writing?


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## Gavrushka (May 2, 2014)

*unsubscribing* due to concerns over the structural stability of this thread!


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## Terry D (May 2, 2014)

W.Goepner said:


> it is mute.



Not to be pedantic, but I think you mean 'moot';

 [h=2]moot[/h]1  [moot] *adjective**1.*open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: _a moot point._

*2.*of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

Number 2 fits pretty well here.


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