# What can a writer gain from writing on a Forum?   (925 words)



## Divus (Sep 4, 2010)

I have been writing on Forums for about a year and it has been an interesting and rewarding learning curve. What is noticeable to me is that many of the members of this Forum are young adults with whom I have little in common and that relatively few members are senior citizens like myself. Some might say that is an obvious conclusion to draw since proportionately few people of my age have the required computer skills and those seniors who do, are not necessarily interested in writing for the sake of writing. Personally I have been working with computers for thirty years and in retirement I write at least 500 words every day. Usually whenever I put finger to keyboard I have an audience in mind. If I wrote only for my own age group, writing would become restrictive. So it is beholden upon me to write for the younger generations of which there are at least three or even four following on behind me. Each generation calls for a slightly different approach. Oh, I forgot, there is also the difference in writing for a predominately female, as against a male, readership. 

When I write about horses then there is a common interest in the subject regardless of age even though some of my ideas about horsemanship do not find universal acceptance amongst the readers. It is inevitable with horses that sooner or later I am going to write something controversial and it is mostly the young female adult who comes flying back at me. Then somehow I must bridge both the generation and the gender gap. I must make my point without writing a wordy confrontation since young people like messages to be short and sharp. Such incidents test my writing skills. I must put my point across in such a way as the young person can accept my philosophy but I must also leave room for my ideas to be put temporarily to one side for reconsideration later. In this modern age appearing to be patronising seems to be a big No-No. But trying to leave the door open for a potential disciple to accept my philosophy is not easy. Some of the horse forums are ’occupied’ by a clique of like minded thinkers who see the forum as their club. For this reason alone free thinking writers like myself will attract condemnation from the very beginning. I do still occasionally post to two animal forums on which I feel unwelcome although really there is little point in being so masochistic towards myself. Learning to criticise by the use of the written word without giving offence is an undoubted skill and from time to time turning the other cheek is a very necessary policy. When occasionally I read back some of my early pieces, I notice the difference in style when compared with how I write these days.

Otherwise I write on the subject of social history and I have written the first elements of a family history as viewed from my perspective. I have started on a sci fi series and I have written one sexy novelette although not about the extra terrestrial Quadrapods who are not very lovable. 

When I am in the mood I find writing easy. The words come to the keyboard from that part of my brain which is normally concerned with operating my body. The other brain with which I am supposedly thinking has little control over the composition which eventually works its way to paper. I can type fast enough but I still need the help of a spell checker even if the dictionary incorporated is the Microsoft US version. Nowadays I accept that a computer does not replace the human editor with an eye for script. Writing is like cooking. In writing what is important is the subject, the style, the choice of words, the theme, the build up, the tone, the finish and importantly the emotion. In every story, based on fact or fiction, the components and the presentation will vary as do the ingredients in a curry but the recipe must appeal to the taste of the audience. 

The problem when writing for a Forum is to establish the nature of the readership. I shall never get to meet the reader, at best I might read some of his or her writing and although that can be sometimes an opening into their soul, there is no non verbal communication to help my interpretation of what they actually write about my work. 
So the only way to test the temperature of the water is to write a piece and wait for the responses. With forums the writer cannot watch the audience’s reaction at the time of the first reading. I have to wait for clues as to whether my message went home in the way intended. These clues come days or even weeks after the article has been posted. Sometimes the critique has value to me but often to incorporate another’s ideas would disrupt my style of writing. Too often it becomes apparent that I did not get over my point with the article. What is important is not to be offended by nor inhibited by any criticism. I just write more articles. 

I know of no more an effective medium for a budding amateur writer than a friendly forum. Try it out for yourself. You never know, one day you might get a book published and for similar reasons, so might I.

Divus


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## The Backward OX (Sep 4, 2010)

That’s an extremely diverse range of topics for one post.

Perhaps under the heading of equine topics, consideration could be given to exploring and discussing natural horsemanship and natural or barefoot hoof care.


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## Mike (Sep 4, 2010)

I think all of us understand the patience required to watch your fingernails grow after posting a story on a writing forum.

A friendly forum is all good and well, especially if it comes with clever critiques that can impact your work in a certain way, but while this forum is a great place to 'test the temperature,' you can only test it so far. In my opinion, writing forums are support communities - sounding boards. You can choose how far you want to be supported. You can listen to as much (or little) as you want. 

But, at the same time, forums such as this one can offer more amateur advice than professional advice. Surely there are a few people, here and there, who have paved their way through that literary minefield, who have solid advice based on their own experience, but even that advice can only be applied to your own path to a certain degree. What has worked for one person _in the past_, in a specific, limited field, might not work for you. 

However, the literary field is ever-shifting, especially in this globe-shrinking, plugged-in day and age. In this respect, forums like this one are a good place to see which of the multitude of paths that leads toward your self-tailored vision of success might work for you.


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## StrikingEagle (Sep 4, 2010)

What a profound message Divus. Not being able to meet the reader is possibly the greatest stumbling block in these forums. Folks come and go quickly I have read on posts and seen in member listsings. Why would someone want to invest time in something so transient. I do. It's a point to begin writing. I don't care if I ever see these people. You speak of non-verbal communication: 

" I shall never get to meet the reader, at best I might read some of his or her writing and although that can be sometimes an opening into their soul, there is no non verbal communication to help my interpretation of what they actually write about my work. 
So the only way to test the temperature of the water is to write a piece and wait for the responses. With forums the writer cannot watch the audience’s reaction at the time of the first reading."


Most authors, whether they are on an internet forum or the best sellers list, do not interact personally with their readers. Why would that be a concern? Who cares if a facial reaction can be seen or not. 

The easy contact to other writers is what brought me to this forum. Young, old, wise, or cliquey. Again, I don't care. I will read the responses to what I write. My reaction will be a reflection of how I am affected by their words. How do I let this occur. How will I react, respond, feel, or direct my attention. 

You may be saying the same thing in a different way. Members of this forum not a bunch of widgets from the same machine and that's what I like about it.


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## Divus (Sep 5, 2010)

Ox,

Mostly I use a horse forum to debate issues about horse care or training.    I do believe in natural horsmanship and I follow tenets express by the likes of Monty Roberts and others.   I have developed my own ideas on how to interact with a horse.
Yet again it is communication which I find to be the key.

Invariably we shoe horses in the UK unless the horse's life is confined to the farm.

To me this Forum offers a contact with readers to discuss other subects.


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## Divus (Sep 5, 2010)

Mike
I believe that perspective is dominant.      Move to the other side of the room and the view of the room has changed.

At the age of 71 I do not expect to penetrate the world of professional writing.   For me writing has become a hobby  and a way to spend a few hours of each day.   By utilising this Forum I can reach out from this chair and debate with someone located across the world.    My perspective of the English speaking world must be different from that of a 20 year old American student but sometimes his or her ideas are of interest to me.     Sometimes I feel an urge to explain my point of view on a subject to that student.

But if I can't tap them on the shoulder and say 'Hi' then somehow I must attract them to read what I have written.  I must also write in such a way for them to understand exactly what I am trying to convey.      I can't use my hands, the tone of my voice, my facial expression or my body language to help convey meaning.     All I have is a careful choice of words, word order and punctuation.   Which is perhaps why in Britain at least the wearing of the Burka,  by  Muslim women, thereby hiding facial expression,  is felt to be unacceptable.    

English English is a language which one can say one thing and mean exactly the opposite.   England was  not called Perfidious Albion for nothing.   When writing, we English must be more explicit.   And that is a skill to learn from somewhere.


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## Divus (Sep 5, 2010)

Eagle,

"Most authors do not meet their readers".         No presumably as professionals the good writers have learned how to make themselves clearly understood - whereas I confess to not being so professionally adept in the matter of writing.

I posted one article on a forum not so long ago  about a very personal matter - perhaps one best left in the computor.   A regular critic wrote back with a very warm critique.  I had to think carefuly of how to respond.   It was not his fault that he had completely misunderstood the emotion I had been trying to portray in the article - it was of course my fault for writing in such a way as to be misunderstood.    But if he had not made that mistake I would never have seen the article in the light the critic had read it.


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## StrikingEagle (Sep 5, 2010)

Hey Divus,

I need to correct something based on what you just wrote.

I had written: "Most authors, whether they are on an internet forum or the best sellers list, do not interact personally with their readers." Writers *DO* interact personally, just not in person. An author's writing can have a profound impact on someone. How wrong I was. 

How I interpret what I read is colored by my psyche, attitude, and a host of other features which are difficult barriers for the author and reader to overcome. Becoming a writer, or even a good writer, requires the introspection you describe. 

I think I will end now before I time-out.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 5, 2010)

Divus said:


> Eagle,
> 
> "Most authors do not meet their readers". No presumably as professionals the good writers have learned how to make themselves clearly understood - whereas I confess to not being so professionally adept in the matter of writing.
> 
> I posted one article on a forum not so long ago about a very personal matter - perhaps one best left in the computor. A regular critic wrote back with a very warm critique. I had to think carefuly of how to respond. It was not his fault that he had completely misunderstood the emotion I had been trying to portray in the article - it was of course my fault for writing in such a way as to be misunderstood. But if he had not made that mistake I would never have seen the article in the light the critic had read it.


Divus, I say this in all sincerity. If and when you discover the magik by which meaning can become crystal clear per written medium only, and if you possess both the wisdom and the greed to patent the method, then you will make a fortune to equal the biggest Lotto payout ever. I absolutely guarantee it.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 5, 2010)

And I believe it’s clouding the issue to include professional writers in your summary to Eagle. I assume when you say professional writers in this context, you mean novelists, whereas your comment about your forum post was clearly about a non-fiction issue. Understanding a novel is quite different to understanding between two people writing back and forth.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 5, 2010)

StrikingEagle said:


> I think I will end now before I time-out.


 
Eagle, you might benefit from reading this:
http://www.writingforums.com/lounge...um-signing-off-automatically.html#post1379333

 (it's a link; move your pointer over it, and click)


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## Divus (Sep 5, 2010)

Eagle;
 
Writers [B said:
			
		

> DO[/B] interact personally, just not in person. [/SIZE]An author's writing can have a profound impact on someone. IZE]
> 
> I previously wrote about occasionally seeing into someone's soul - through their writing.
> 
> ...


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## Divus (Sep 5, 2010)

Ox,
As you know I do not attempt to write what I see to be fiction. but I am never quite sure how to classify much of my writing. 

Is it non fiction because the stories are essentially based on actual events?

Or in the case of my doggie or horsey stories, which I always post under 'non fiction, is it fiction because I give the animals the ability to communicate with a human?

With Grandma is it fiction because sometimes I deliberately 'twist' the story so as to arouse an emotion in the reader?

As a foray into the writing of fiction and as a test of myself, I wrote earlier this year a novelette (25,000 words) describing a relationship between a businesman and a girl at an airport. The story was complete fiction in that it never happened and if I did post it then it would to be under Romantic Fiction. But the story was based on a series of factual anecdotes which I had strung together. The female character is a mixture of live people. The man is also a composite creature. (Incidentally, there is a lot of sex in the content so I have not posted any of it on this forum). As a test, I did post one chapter, which I thought could stand on its own, on another Forum which seemed to have a more liberal approach to matters of sex. I posted it under Romantic Fiction - with a caveat about the sex. 

The Quadrapods are a figment of my imagination (I hope) but I have to make sure that the creature I have invented, could actually exist and behave in the way I have written. They surely must be classed as Sci Fi fiction although I did think of placing the first article under Fantasy. 

Surely the boundary between fiction and non fiction is blurred?

B

PS I should have followed up your link about 'time outs' before I posted to Eagle - but interestingly I don't have a ' time out' problem.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 5, 2010)

Divus said:


> As a foray into the writing of fiction and as a test of myself, I wrote earlier this year a novelette (25,000 words) describing a relationship between a businesman and a girl at an airport. The story was complete fiction in that it never happene and if I did post it then it would to be under Romantic Fiction. But the story was based on a series of factual anecdotes which I had strung together. The female character is a mixture of live people. The man is also a composite creature. (Incidentally, there is a lot of sex in the content so I have not posted any of it on this forum). As a test, I did post one chapter, which I thought could stand on its own, on another Forum which seemed to have a more liberal approach to matters of sex. I posted it under Romantic Fiction - with a caveat about the sex.


Divus, here’s a suggestion:

Stuff such as this can be posted in the creative forums, provided there is an adequate disclaimer or caveat as you call it at the top. Why not pick out a chapter and post it? If you’re interested in possible future publication you could post it in Writer’s Workshop, which is only visible to members and thereby protects your first publishing rights. 

Everyone would benefit. We’d get to see some good writing and you might pick up some pointers on ways to improve it.


That matter of the disclaimer - some here seem to think it should go in the subject line so that supervised children don’t get to open it; convention on the other hand has had it in the body of the post. I guess it's up to the individual.


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## garza (Sep 5, 2010)

Divus - How can the line between fiction and non-fiction be blurred? Non-fiction means every statement is factual. Once you deviate, you have created fiction. 

I've thought, for instance, of writing an 'autobiography' of sorts, taking the interesting people and incidents of my childhood and dressing them up just a bit to make them more consistently interesting. As soon as I do that I will have created fiction even though the people I base the characters on were real and the incidents were real. 

I can recreate my grandfather's private advice and public speeches in language and topic, but certainly not word for word. On the stump he was Paddy-off-the-boat, but in person he spoke English with hardly any brogue. I can write the way he spoke, but I can't think back more than 60 years and reproduce exactly what he said. As soon as I put words in the mouth of a character based on my grandfather, I've created fiction, no matter how accurately they reflect my grandfather's thoughts. 

Maybe I've spent too many years as a journalist making every effort to get every detail factually correct, but I see a sharp line  that divides fiction from non-fiction.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 5, 2010)

garza - You may believe you’ve created fiction by writing a story about Paddy-off-the-boat, but if you do it, and it’s published, it will be as non-fiction. Just go to your local library and look for the biographies section. You’ll find it in amongst all the non-fiction.


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## garza (Sep 5, 2010)

Ox - I'll give you one example of what I'm talking about - 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man'. The characters in it are drawn from real life. The Christmas dinner conversation recreates many such conversations Joyce heard growing up. Everything in the book is based solidly on Joyce's early life, but it's fiction. 

What I'm talking about doing is the same. It will have its foundation in reality, but it will be fiction.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 6, 2010)

garza - _Now_ I understand.


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## Divus (Sep 6, 2010)

Ox,

Well it appears I have found my dog amongst the pigeons twice in one day.    I'll have to keep him on a leash in future.

First there is the matter of what is non -fiction and what is fiction.
and then there is the subject  of 'the other'.

Maybe I should put my head below the parapet for a week or so and go back to editing - for the fourth time - my story about Joe.

B


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## Divus (Sep 6, 2010)

Garza
Thank you for enlightening me about the difference between non fiction and fiction - advice perhaps especially relevant if it comes from a professional journalist.       As a virgin amateur I sometimes wonder why the professionals aren't more open about stating they write for a living.
Nevetheless I suspect I am not the only one who may have interpreted the rules incorrectly.

To me fiction is when I have dreamt a story up in my head, non fiction is when I am  creating a readable story out of a memory (sometimes distant) of events.    Sometimes I embelish the story to produce a more readable or more emotive article.           

When I write about working with a horse, I very often take the horse's non verbal communication - which I may or may not have understood correctly - as a form of speech.   Horse and dogs don't speak with humans but they certainly communicate - something which too many owners ignore.     Of course, how I translate onto paper what I 'felt' they 'said' to me is pure speculation.

I would like to see a full explaination of  what is acceptable in 'non fiction' - as applicable to the amateur writer.  Then I'll look back over what I have posted previously under the non fiction heading.

I would also like to know who of the senior members of the forum is professional.    Firstly because I would then  value their comments about my work  more and  I would better understand their perspective.      You are rare - you do not hide that you are a professional .

I am in trouble elsewhere today - I don't want to offend 'The Management' too much     

B


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## The Backward OX (Sep 6, 2010)

Divus said:


> Ox,
> 
> Well it appears I have found my dog amongst the pigeons twice in one day. I'll have to keep him on a leash in future.


 
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## The Backward OX (Sep 12, 2010)

Mike said:


> I think all of us understand the patience required to watch your fingernails grow after posting a story on a writing forum.
> 
> A friendly forum is all good and well, especially if it comes with clever critiques that can impact your work in a certain way, but while this forum is a great place to 'test the temperature,' you can only test it so far. In my opinion, writing forums are support communities - sounding boards. You can choose how far you want to be supported. You can listen to as much (or little) as you want.
> 
> ...


 



> Originally Posted by *The Backward OX*
> 
> 
> Online forums are not for people who are serious about their writing.
> ...


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## Baron (Sep 12, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Originally Posted by The Backward OX
> Online forums are not for people who are serious about their writing.
> 
> If people are serious about their writing, but still want to use an online facility, they need to be considering something like this:
> ...



Okay, confess, how much commission are they paying you?

Cross posting on the forums is also against site guidelines, Edna.  This could even be regarded as spamming.


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## Sam (Sep 12, 2010)

Divus said:


> I know of no more an effective medium for a budding amateur writer than a friendly forum.



I know of no better medium for destroying an amateur writer's confidence than a writing forum.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 12, 2010)

Baron said:


> Okay, confess, how much commission are they paying you?
> 
> Cross posting on the forums is also against site guidelines, Edna. This could even be regarded as spamming.


 
You wouldn't have complained if I'd created a new post by typing out the identical stuff word by flipping word. I'm lazy. I was just taking the easy way.


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## Mike (Sep 12, 2010)

Divus said:
			
		

> I know of no more an effective medium for a budding amateur writer than a friendly forum.





Sam W said:


> I know of no better medium for destroying an amateur writer's confidence than a writing forum.


 
I know of no better utensil for eating a bucket of ice cream than my bare hands.


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## Taxiday (Sep 12, 2010)

At the age of 71 I do not expect to penetrate the world of professional writing. For me writing has become a hobby and a way to spend a few hours of each day. By utilising this Forum I can reach out from this chair and debate with someone located across the world


Well, I've got news for you, at 71 I signed a contract with a publisher for a novel and I know they're going to take the sequel. I have a liftime worth of experienes I want to share and so far have written 7 novels of various genres and plan on getting ALL of them published. I'm working on an 8th and have at least 10 more pent up inside of me.

Yes, I know it's hard - no, damed hard - to get through the morass of being published but it's something you have to work at if you're going to succeed.

I've also written short stories and articles, few published at this time but will get in print before long.

Oh yeah, at 71 I figure I still have another 20 years of productive writing so I'm not sitting around trying to rust to death.

As for writing on forums, there are 7 I visit every day and every one of them has taught me something to become a better writer. I know I can communicate well, as I've done it all my life. The trick is communicating in such a way that varied readers can and will understand what I''m trying to get accross. That's what these forums do.


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## garza (Sep 12, 2010)

Taxiday - Well, that's great. Or is it? It may be great for you, congratulations and all that, but it jolly well means the rest of us old farts are going to have to shape up and get busy. 

I was just complaining the other day about the smarty pants youngsters. Now I have another complaint. You're a year older than me and you're making me look bad.

Keep us posted. If I can get the cramp out of this leg I'll get a stout from the fridge and toast your success.


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## Divus (Sep 12, 2010)

Taxi
Maybe there is hope for me yet.


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