# Would this be enough evidence to make an arrest?



## ironpony (Apr 12, 2018)

For my story, basically a cop is killed in a shootout and there was no witnesses, at least that is the way I have it written so far, unless I need more evidence.

But there are no witnesses now, and they have the dead body, as well as all this physical evidence of a shootout, but no prints or DNA, since the shooters wore gloves, and any DNA that could be there, is not in the police's index, to point to a suspect.  The police are investigating it, and the cop worked in their department.  One of the other cop, the main character, tells the others that the other cop, before he was killed, earlier that week, told him that he has a hunch of who the villain is behind everything that's going on, and he was going to follow up on it on his own.  The reason why he wanted to follow up on his own, is cause it was just a hunch he had and needed more proof.  But then he turns up killed.

So after the MC tells the other investigators who the suspect is, that the dead cop mentioned, is that enough to arrest the suspect?  Even if it's not with charge and just to 'bring him in', as they say?  Or is that just hearsay since the cop is dead, and not enough?  Or would the police not bring him and just spy on him, cause they do not want him to know the police are onto him?


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## Cephus (Apr 13, 2018)

That's not enough to make an arrest because there is no evidence directly linking the suspect to the murder.  It might be enough to get a search warrant and police could find additional  evidence at the suspect's house or business or whatever, but you need some pretty solid evidence before most DAs will go after a case.


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## Plasticweld (Apr 13, 2018)

Maybe instead of watching so much tv and b grade movies, you pick up a book on law and do a little research before asking such basic questions?  You seem to ask a lot of questions concerning the law so why not become educated...  They do make books on the topic.  I don't mean more pulp written by other authors that don't know either, but text books.


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## ironpony (Apr 13, 2018)

Okay thanks.  I read a law book, but it's kind of vague when it comes to extremely peculiar scenarios, such as my story.

It's not enough to get a search warrant though, cause in a search warrant, the items that are being seized have to be on the warrant, and in this case, there are no specific items to look for yet.  But even on a search warrant you cannot go by hearsay when it comes to searching.

Basically I know what I want for my story and I know how where I want it to go, and end, but I have trouble getting there legally.  I keep trying to come up with these different legal scenarios to get there, but the law keeps saying NO.

So I feel instead of coming up with all these hypothetical scenarios to try to get there and keep hitting legal roadblocks, there must be some way to to get there to look for specifically in the law, but I cannot find what the solution is, and do not know where to look within the law.

I think I need to find someone to ask, rather than some book, that does deal with my particular case, but not sure where to go for research, since every internet site does not deal with such a specific scenario.


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## sas (Apr 13, 2018)

I confess, I write poetry. I know, yuk. But, I write what I know about to make it authentic and identifiable to even non-poets. If you don’t know what cops can or might do, then write about something else, or hang out with them. My sister was a Detroit Detective and I couldn’t make her shit up. Go shovel through real shit, so your writing can pass the smell test. 

(why do I imagine most wanna be writers living inside little rooms?)

.


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## ironpony (Apr 13, 2018)

Okay thanks.  So far I asked some cops, but they said that my story is legally impossible, or wouldn't work so that doesn't help much.  So I thought maybe I could find someone who knows more about the legal cracks in these things.


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## sas (Apr 13, 2018)

Did you ask those cops to surmise what might be an illegal possibility?  Hmmm. They do some illegal shit. Try that. It would move your story forward. Stop trying to stay within the law.


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## ironpony (Apr 13, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Well basically I want to write the type of story where all the cops are against the MC and the MC has to go out and solve the case on his own.  It's the type of story that's been done before, and I was using that same structure.  However, since the MC is working on his own, all the evidence he comes across is going to be admissible since he is getting it without warrants or legal authorization.  So I asked some police officers, how does a cop, make inadmissible evidence, admissible?  How do you wipe of the  taint if it's tainted, if you will?  They said you can't, and inadmissible is inadmissible and tainted forever legally.

So not sure how to write around that, cause I cannot find any cracks in the law when it comes to that.


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## sas (Apr 13, 2018)

I am smiling because no cop, who wasn’t close to you, would tell you how, or if, it’s done illegally. Did you ask them in a bar or a donut shop? Think about why I asked you that. 

Remember Hemmingway lived the life he wrote about, even wounded in war. Write about what you know. And, if you know nothing yet, wait to write. Yep, not what those itching to put words on a page want to hear. True, though. If you’ve meat on your bones, there’s enough to scrape off that will be of interest to others. Otherwise, fatten up. You’ve time on your side. Wait for it. Keep notes. Write ideas.


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## ironpony (Apr 13, 2018)

I met them at the station, told them I was a writer doing research talked to them and then got their email addresses.  My martial arts teacher is also a cop and said the same things.  I didn't ask them for true stories for if it's done illegally, i just ask them for hypothetical ways that would work legally.

Well I am almost done the story and just want to finally get it done.  I can write it so that the cop does illegal things, just don't know how he would get away with things, since there is no way to make tainted evidence, untainted, once it's tainted, that I can find.


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## sas (Apr 14, 2018)

Enjoy your writing. Write everyday. It’s like exercising. Your work will get stronger. Best. Sas


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## ironpony (Apr 14, 2018)

Okay thanks.  One of the LEO's I talked to said that most fiction makes things up and strays completely away from reality and I should do the same.  He said that a realistic police procedure would be boring cause all the red tape would get in the way of the drama and suspense.

So I could make things up and write it like the fourth amendment doesn't exist, but so many people know about the fourth amendment, that I don't know how far I can push it.

Basically I know what I want my story to go, but in order for that to happen, the fourth amendment cannot exist in this world.  So is that going too far?


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## Ralph Rotten (Apr 14, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  I read a law book, but it's kind of vague when it comes to extremely peculiar scenarios, such as my story.
> 
> It's not enough to get a search warrant though, cause in a search warrant, the items that are being seized have to be on the warrant, and in this case, there are no specific items to look for yet.  But even on a search warrant you cannot go by hearsay when it comes to searching.
> 
> ...




You would do well to obtain some intro to law enforcement TEXTBOOKS. These will step you through the basics and on up the chain.  Maybe even take a class or two...you can audit some for free (and even online).


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## ironpony (Apr 14, 2018)

Okay thanks.  It's just hard to fit those in, cause of my jobs and everything else going on in my life, plus I want the story to finally be finished and stop putting it on hold, every time i hit a road block.  but i can see what there is for classes.  However, it was said before that officers are not going to tell me how to break the law and get away with it in this case.  So would text books actually explain how to break their own rules and how to get away with it?


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## Ralph Rotten (Apr 15, 2018)

"So would text books actually explain how to break their own rules and how to get away with it?"

Yes. It's called case law.
Text books are just a start tho. If this is your chosen genre then you should really try to become as expert as possible about it.
I still study astrophysics & space travel even though I wrote those books long ago.
Never stop learning.


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## ironpony (Apr 15, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Well the thing is, I am more interested in writing about the human side of crime and revenge thrillers, but the law keeps getting in the way.  I wouldn't say my genre is the legal genre, but more so the revenge and suspense genre, but I am overwhelmed by how much, the law specifics play a part in it.

I've read some books on it so far, but so far, no books have come close to a situation like my story, so they haven't been as much help.


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## FireofDarkness (May 9, 2018)

As a cop & writer I have a little advice.
We would need more to go on: a shoe print, an unusual gun (bullet in victim, shell casing on street) to narrow down the search. A security camera or ATM camera that caught something the attack or escape vehicle. Were there specific tread patterns from vehicle the attacker used to flee the scene. A serial killer who has a specific identifiable trait in all his killings. A witness sees the attack, person fleeing the scene, vehicle fleeing...

However, if you are eliminating the 4th amendment instead, you will need a government structure of a dictator, marshal law, or anarchy... something that has eliminated that right. Perhaps a government/ law enforcement structure like Mexico currently has?

We would need a lot more to go off of, but I'm just trying to offer ideas. Good luck!


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## ironpony (May 9, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Perhaps I should stick the plot where the villain keeps the collateral evidence buried in the ground then, cause at least the officers are legally free to dig that up then, cause it's not private property, right?


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## Ralph Rotten (May 9, 2018)

The tape would need to be somewhere that it would not be forgotten if he got wacked.  In order for it to be a dead man's switch, it would need to be with a lawyer or friend.


Maybe the solution for your 4th amendment problems is that your hero is just a little shady.  Nowadays everyone wants the complicated hero, maybe this guy bends a few laws along the way, he's been a cop long enough to know how to straighten the curves when no one is watching.  As long as he can come up with a plausible explanation how he was led to each clue...  Maybe your guy should be Chicago PD.


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## ironpony (May 10, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Not sure what you mean by the Chicago PD reference .

But I cannot come up with a way for him to be working outside the law, without really overcomplicating it, cause getting around the fourth amendment is much harder than one would think.  Basically if it's on private property, he needs a warrant.  For that he needs probably cause.

But since he has been working alone and outside the law this whole time, any probable cause he has would be inadmissible to get a warrant.  That's the problem.  It's much easier probably to write the character so that he would bury it in the ground, rather than keeping it on private property.

What about how in Breaking Bad for example, SPOILER

Walter White chose to bury all his money in the ground, so the cops did not need a warrant to dig it up.  If Walt kept all his money on private property, then the cop after him would have been screwed.  But he chose to bury it, for the plot convenience of not needing a warrant, and viewers were okay with this and didn't think Walter was too stupid.  So how can I write to so that the villain just has a reason for burying it, rather than keeping it on private property?

Or if it really needs to be on private property, how do I make it so that he can get around the fourth amendment?  Cause no matter how shady the hero is, the fourth amendment is written in a way, that you cannot get around it, at least not that I can find in my research.  There are no holes in the system on this one it seems, and that's the problem.  I've tried rewriting the scenario a dozen different ways, and there are always problems with getting around the forth amendment and there is no way to do it.

I mean I could have it so that he puts the evidence into the hands of a homeless person and pays him to deliver it to the station, but I feel that it already has too much plot, and I need to cut down and not add more.  It's getting really complicated, and I thought that maybe the villain burying it, and making it simple, was more important than to have all these plot complications to get around the fourth amendment.

What if the reason for the villain burying it, was the same as in Breaking Bad, as he is just afraid the police will find it, if he keeps it on private property?  And for a dead man's switch, what if the lawyer knew where it was buried, in case anything was to happen to the villain?


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