# Writing in video games



## SVenus

I noticed there isn't really a section for this, but I thought it could be an interesting discussion, and I'm sure there are some gamers here. 

Writing in video games is something that fascinates me. It is the only medium where an entire world can be created without a single spoken word, just letting the player explore and learn. But even with visuals and sound I'd say that games have more in common with novels. Movies are rather strict when it comes to time (90-150 minutes, usually), but a novel can be anywhere from 100 to 1000 pages and a game can last from 2 to 200 hours. In both the audience has a bigger connection with the protagonist than they do in movies. In novels, you read their thoughts and spend a long time with them, in movies you have to try to understand them simply by observing. In games, and here is what makes them unique and great, you _are_ the protagonist, you can play a total scumbag who is despised by everyone but you would still have some sympathy for him simply because you are wearing his or her skin (I like you if you immediately thought of Buffalo Bill ). 

Well, that's my little rant. Share your thoughts please.


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## Leyline

Somewhat tangential to your point, but not quite off topic:

I recently sat through the entire 13 hours of Naughty Dog's incredible game _The Last Of Us_ and was amazed -- everything that's praised about novel and film writing was there in abundance: smooth, believable and voice specific dialogue, characterization, unity and development of theme, beautiful pacing, and absolute emotional engagement. In addition to that, the gameplay absolutely heightened and intensified the narrative rather than seeming to interrupt or undercut it. Everything -- the many firefights, deft puzzles, even the crafting and upgrading of weapons and skills -- was organically designed to be a part of the story and enhance the experience. 

That emotional engagement, though, is where the game really shines. You're given two characters that you absolutely will fall in love with, fear for, laugh with and understand even when they confess failures and misdeed. Hard bitten, nearly broken Joel and his 14 year old ward Ellie (brilliantly, award-worthily voiced and motion captured by Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson) are creations to put against any novel's protagonists. In particular, there's a scene partway through the game



Spoiler



Joel is grievously wounded and suddenly Ellie must take on the role of protector -- and does so with sheer skill and ferocity



that hit my cousin and I so hard that we literally had to stop playing and recover. No game has ever affected me so viscerally. And no game has ever left me with tears in my eyes. Until _The Last Of Us_.

So yeah, video game writing can certainly be as worthy, high quality, and as powerful, as any novel or film.


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## CodenameX

I heard _The Last of Us_ was pretty great. I wouldn't know much  about it as I haven't played it (no PS3) but with that kind of  recommendation from Leyline, it looks like I'll have to look into it  more. 

You also said a whole world can be created without a single spoken word.  A whole game can also be played without a single spoken word. Zelda  games come to mind. But, there are some where to protagonist says  absolutely nothing. _Half-Life_ and _Portal _are games  that have the secondary characters make the game shine. The Portal  series had it's fair share of villains, music, and one liners._ Half-Life_  made you really feel the part of being Gordon Freeman. I've played  other games where the hero never speaks, but I don't feel connected to  them. _Half-Life_ made it work. I think it was how the other  people in the world interacted with you and the fact that cut scenes did  not exist. Either way, in my opinion, they did a great job placing you  in his shoes.

Outside of those examples, I love some writing in  games. Others, not so much. I was never huge into fantasy, so those  extensive RPGs never caught my attention. Although, I have played quite a  few shooters and action games. Those are really a case to case  situation.

Some games use writing as a way to go from playable scene to playable scene. I found very few people enjoyed the _COD:MW _writing, yet so many people played all three games. It clearly wasn't about the story, it was about the action. 
Other games, use their plot as ways to really get involved with the gamer. _The Walking Dead_  is a great example. It was a choice based game where the atmosphere  played a big role, but the writing completed it. You had to make very  hard choices and the consequences weren't always quite clear. Basically,  it was a very intense choose your own adventure type game. Those are  the two exact opposite games. One is almost purely action with a  convoluted storyline that most people skip. The other is heavily based  in the game's writing. 

_Borderlands 2_ and _Far Cry 3_ are both very polarizing in the writing department. Personally, I loved them both. _Borderlands 2 _had  a creative/humor take on the entire game while offering some serious  parts. It never took itself too seriously and was kind of bizarre. _Far Cry 3_  had Vas. He alone was enough to make me love the game and was the high  point of the writing. I found the other people in the game to be  interesting, but no one compared to Vas. His character was perfect and  they should have had more of him in the game. *Adult themes incoming! *Watch  the E3 video if you can. It's about 8 minutes long (sorry) and contains  a lot of violence and swearing. Mostly the violence part. It's a video  that's suppose to showcase Vas and then the game play. So, it might be  uninteresting to a lot of you. However, I do like how it ends and I feel  like the middle parts are important to separate the beginning/end and  make the entire video a more cohesive experience.

Writing in  games has really evolved through out the years. As games and  computers/consoles become more advanced, the writing can too. The  developers can always make more extensive worlds or add in more  dialogue/scenes to let you know the character better. Basically, with  increased computing power you get an increased opportunity for character  development.


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## SVenus

Heh, incidentally I'm currently playing FC3 and have gotten around 5-6 hours played (the length of MW2's campaign for example) and I haven't even started the story, just played the tutorial and have been exploring ever since. So I haven't really gotten the chance to see Vas yet (except for the intro) but he seems interesting.

And, yes. The Last of Us is the most amazing game I have played this gen, maybe ever.


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## CodenameX

Wow, high praise for _The Last of Us_. I think you'll enjoy Vas more as he seems like the best villain for the storyline. Other choices might not seem so appealing, but I thought the writing and voice work were great.

Which leads me to one question. If a character has fantastic writing, but awful voice acting, will the character (and incidentally the plot) seem poorly written? I feel like voice acting can play a huge part in how people respond to the character's writing in games. If the voice actor is bad, I feel like most people judge the voice acting _and writing_ as being bad. A game needs an exceptionally good plot overall to overcome bad voice acting.


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## Whimsica

Aha, the inspiration for some of my earliest stories were from playing around in video games... I would imagine sometimes that the characters were on an adventure other than the one the game was actually about...


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## Hunter56

I agree about _The Last of Us_; it's such a shame when people that don't play video games can't experience something so good.


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## Nostalgia

The Last of Us et al. are a great example of the written word being brought into the perception of "sight".

They are truly novels; the only difference is you see the action being played instead of reading it in words. Dialogue is still dialogue; you just have defined voices. Yes, I'll probably get slapped in the face by purists, but video games like the Last of Us are literary works of art; those things had to be given a script and an "outline" on what would be played in an action sequence.


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## Dictarium

I feel like video games are often poo-pooed as "children's playthings" and not considered the amazingly powerful story-telling mediums that they can be. An amazing example of this is Spec Ops: The Line. Without spoiling anything, the game is an excellent commentary on and examination of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Schizophrenia as well as the perception of war and combat by soldiers. It looks at why we do what we're told, if we can believe what we think we know, and many other amazing topics.

Though, on the outside, it looks like a generic shooter like Call of Duty. And that's the point. It messes with your expectations to show you that war isn't as it's depicted in those games, but much more three-dimensional, complex, and emotional.

But, nope. Just a kid's game 'bout shootin' stuff.


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## Novel

I'll second both _Spec Ops: The Line_ and _Borderlands 2_. If you only have time for one, play _Spec Ops_. _Borderlands 2 _lands a few hard hits on nearly every emotion, but in the end, it's just for fun. _Spec Ops_ has something to say and I wholeheartedly recommend listening.

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to _The Last of Us_ yet, if only because I have yet to buy a Playstation 3 (I hold that the medium should serve the art, not the other way around). But I can recommend one other game with amazing writing that hasn't been mentioned yet:

_Bastion._

On the surface, it's a solid, hopeful story about coping with loss and rebooting after a major catastrophe, played out over eight or so hours and narrated (yes, narrated) by a voice coated in gravel and dipped in honey. Under the surface, it's got more that I don't want to spoil. I actually shed tears at a certain point in this game, and not from sadness (this has happened once in 19 years of gaming). Play it. It's worth every cent and every minute spent.


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## SVenus

Of all the mentioned above I have only yet to play Borderlands 2. Bastion really is amazing, I don't want to spoil it but the decision at the end and one of the options was incredibly well done.

As for Spec Ops: The Line, well... I have yet to actually experience another story that made me truly feel disgust for both myself and the main character.


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## Sam

Leyline said:


> Somewhat tangential to your point, but not quite off topic:
> 
> I recently sat through the entire 13 hours of Naughty Dog's incredible game _The Last Of Us_ and was amazed -- everything that's praised about novel and film writing was there in abundance: smooth, believable and voice specific dialogue, characterization, unity and development of theme, beautiful pacing, and absolute emotional engagement. In addition to that, the gameplay absolutely heightened and intensified the narrative rather than seeming to interrupt or undercut it. Everything -- the many firefights, deft puzzles, even the crafting and upgrading of weapons and skills -- was organically designed to be a part of the story and enhance the experience.
> 
> That emotional engagement, though, is where the game really shines. You're given two characters that you absolutely will fall in love with, fear for, laugh with and understand even when they confess failures and misdeed. Hard bitten, nearly broken Joel and his 14 year old ward Ellie (brilliantly, award-worthily voiced and motion captured by Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson) are creations to put against any novel's protagonists. In particular, there's a scene partway through the game
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Joel is grievously wounded and suddenly Ellie must take on the role of protector -- and does so with sheer skill and ferocity
> 
> 
> 
> that hit my cousin and I so hard that we literally had to stop playing and recover. No game has ever affected me so viscerally. And no game has ever left me with tears in my eyes. Until _The Last Of Us_.
> 
> So yeah, video game writing can certainly be as worthy, high quality, and as powerful, as any novel or film.



To add to this, _The Last of Us _is the only game I've ever not wanted to play. And by that I don't mean that I thought it was rubbish, or the gameplay didn't work for me, or any other reason that would cause me to stop playing a game. What I mean is that I literally did not want to play it because, like a brilliant novel, I wanted the story to last forever. I found myself taking hours to savour the scenery, the world, and the journey that Joel and Ellie embarked on. At times terrifying, hilarious, and emotional, the story is second to none as the finest piece of writing I've ever encountered in a game world. 

If you haven't played it: buy, rent, steal, hijack, commandeer any PS3 you can find and purchase a copy. It will _blow _​your mind.


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## The Tourist

Dictarium said:


> I feel like video games are often poo-pooed as "children's playthings" and not considered the amazingly powerful story-telling mediums that they can be.



I agree with your premise, but not the example.

One out of every three Americans alive today is a baby boomer.  The toys of our generation were hula hoops, The Slinky, and Mattel Shootin Shell toy guns.  They shaped the generation.

It's not the video game, it's the shared experience at the time of the toys' inception.

You also have to admit that every generation thinks they invented "insight."  It's always an older concept, it's just that youth have never heard about it, so they assume they created it.


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## Dictarium

The Tourist said:


> I agree with your premise, but not the example.
> 
> One out of every three Americans alive today is a baby boomer.  The toys of our generation were hula hoops, The Slinky, and Mattel Shootin Shell toy guns.  They shaped the generation.
> 
> It's not the video game, it's the shared experience at the time of the toys' inception.
> 
> You also have to admit that every generation thinks they invented "insight."  It's always an older concept, it's just that youth have never heard about it, so they assume they created it.


I don't think I've implied that my generation -- I'm 18 by the way, for reference -- has "created" anything, just that older generations don't notice something new for what it can be. Games had the same potential in 1985 when Super Mario Bros. was released as they do today, yet the perception of them as children's playthings (which was much more reasonable in '85) has not evolved along with the realization of that potential.


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## Kevin

Every generation is stuck in the past. Try talking to an eight-year-old about ed, edd n eddy.


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## The Tourist

Dictarium, please consider that boomers invented the internet.  To that, my dad, who was born in 1918, once stated that when "man" is handed an innovation he does one of two things.  He either makes it a weapon or a toy.  And consider that he was born after WWI and the implementation of U-boats.  Even war was mechanized before he drew breath.

Video games are a nuance of existing technology.  They improve, but they are still just variations on an existing idea.  And depictions of love, hate, war and comedy were invented by ancient Greeks.

In essence, a video game is a marriage of Herodotus and Univac, circa 1951.


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## Smith

Writing for video games is actually something I've been interested in. While my artistic talent (at least with drawing and such, haven't made an attempt at 3D Design) is poor, there are just so many wonderful things that go into making a good game. I too must use The Last of Us as an example. I watched my friend play it and I felt like I was watching a movie. There's writing, audio, drawing, map design, acting, programming... I'm currently in the process of learning Java as well. So I can overcome my lacking in other areas where I excel in writing. The best thing, is I can still improve so much with my writing too.

I think if enough people are interested there should be a new section in the forums for this.


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## dakota.potts

Guys, I'm not sure if we're allowed to plug other sites here. However, as a musician, I signed up for a website called gamedev.net. They have a section for writing in video games and even a classifieds section to find work doing it. Definitely something you guys should check out if interested in working in video games!


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## Morkonan

SVenus said:


> ...Well, that's my little rant. Share your thoughts please.



In video-game writing, you're either creating a story or having to do fill-in work with some dev's idea of a good "story", told through the facetious use of 'splosions and shiny graphics, with a generous helping of boobies... Think of it as being forced to write for Michael Bay or Stephen Spielberg. Which would you prefer to write for?

Video game writing can be great, don't get me wrong. There are some really compelling stoylines out there that have excellent play potential with them. But, that's a rare breed of game. Most games either center on gameplay (majority), story (extreme minority) or an attempt to combine the two in equal fashion (the most rare of all).

Now, top that all off with that most game writing is garbage, largely because it's not really focused at anything more than fitting whatever large howitzer-blowup gameplay experience the devs have cooked up. A few bits and pieces of quality writing make it through, but they're largely ignored because the devs have decided that's the moment they're going to make a character's boobs bounce up and down... 

Lastly, I see a lot of young game-players extoll upon the virtues of the writing in certain games. I have to say that, as critics, they've probably little experience with good writing, much less good game-writing. But, that's OK, really - If they are pleased with it, that's what matters.


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## Smith

I usually accredit games like The Elder Scrolls and Fallout with good writing. Then there's Naughty Dog who is also a golden nugget in the rubble of Call of Duty / Battlefield campaign writing.

Not that I don't like BF4. I am enjoying it quite much at the moment. ^_^


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## hamster892

Games are certainly one of our most powerful storytelling mediums, if used correctly. I've noticed that educational programs for writing in games are popping up in colleges more often. I've played many of the games mentioned above, Portal, Half-Life, etc. Games are a true art form. Glad to see more and more of the world is coming to appreciate it.


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## vangoghsear

dakota.potts said:


> Guys, I'm not sure if we're allowed to plug other sites here. However, as a musician, I signed up for a website called gamedev.net. They have a section for writing in video games and even a classifieds section to find work doing it. Definitely something you guys should check out if interested in working in video games!



Since you questioned in the thread if plugging other sites is against the rules, I'll answer here. Your post does stretch the rules a bit...



> *Advertising: * Advertising of any kind is prohibited on the main  boards. You are allowed to link to your site in your signature once you  have made the required amount of posts. Paying subscribers may post  threads which promote their work in the Literary Emporium. Those with  books for sale on Amazon may also request that they be added to the  bookshop. Paying subscribers who are professional publishers, writers,  artists or illustrators, proofreaders or editors, may offer or discuss  their services _only within the Motley Tavern or other Admin-designated area_. Anything else will be considered spam and deleted. Spammers may be banned from the site without notice.



but it appears more informative than Spam and you didn't link it, you just noted the address.  In the future, links to outside sites of interest to the membership should be placed by starting a thread in our "Writers Resources" here:

http://www.writingforums.com/forums/16-Writers-Resources

Then you can link to that thread.  It is more work considering you're just being helpful, but the thread becomes available to everyone seeking such a resource who may miss it in this thread.


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## EarnBoogie

Kevin said:


> Every generation is stuck in the past. Try talking to an eight-year-old about ed, edd n eddy.



I think what you said is hilarious. I actually tried talking to one of my younger friends about a show that came out when I was young and they had no clue what I was talking about. It was so frustrating. Your quote reminded me of that.

On another note, I am a gamer and I find that a lot of games have very good stories. Some even bring me to tears, such as Kingdom Hearts, The Walking Dead and The Last of Us. There are a bunch of others that I can't name right now. The visuals and voice-acting that has been produced in present games has definitely helped with the great writing too.


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## TheGreedyimp

SVenus said:


> But even with visuals and sound I'd say that games have more in common with novels. Movies are rather strict when it comes to time (90-150 minutes, usually), but a novel can be anywhere from 100 to 1000 pages and a game can last from 2 to 200 hours. In both the audience has a bigger connection with the protagonist than they do in movies. In novels, you read their thoughts and spend a long time with them, in movies you have to try to understand them simply by observing.



I'm going to have to partially disagree with what you said there.
Admittedly, there are many video games written more like novels, rather than movies. However, I'd say there are other video games that are more similar to movies.

Take Borderlands 2 for an example. While Borderlands 2 is more known for its humor when it comes to writing, it uses a lot of visual storytelling. There are a lot of discreet objects in the Borderlands 2 world that would tell you a story; you wouldn't know a story was being told to you, but your brain did. And honestly, these are the things that make me attracted to video game writing. The Portal series also has similar writing, especially the first one.

On the other hand, there are action games like the Last of Us(like you mentioned) and the Mass Effect series. Both are favorites of mine and are well written. However, I would say they follow a more basic form of storytelling, understandably so.

The Last of Us story is mostly made up of the dialogue between the characters. Though it's not _Person A: This is happening right now Person B: We should do this_ it didn't utilize the visual aspect as much. However, since the Last of Us is centered around the relationship between two characters, it works fine.

When it comes down to great writing in video games, my favorites are the Bioshock series, the Half Life series, and Tell-Tale Games's The Walking Dead and The Wolf Among Us.


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## SVenus

I agree, there is the standard aspect and then there is environmental storytelling, like in Dark Souls or Half Life. If you want to you can finish both games while never getting past the premise and perhaps some extra info, but if you look deep and "read" the surroundings there are a lot of stories to experience. But I'd still say I prefer the more direct aspect.


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## Leyline

One of the best written games I've recently encountered is the indie masterpiece _The Stanley Parable_, which started life as a _Half Life 2_ mod. A hilarious, ferociously intelligent exploration of the concept of narrative collapse. Though deeply funny, the game is also -- by turns -- provocative, thought-provoking and even somewhat disturbing. It's also relentlessly addictive, all from writing. There's no combat, no puzzles, and only a basic level of interactivity. In fact, the joy of the game is in refusing to follow directions so as to annoy the Narrator (brilliantly voiced by British actor Kevin Brighting) and hear what he has to say:

[video=youtube;vggHQcwDDtc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vggHQcwDDtc[/video]


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## Nicholas McConnaughay

I don't know if this will completely stay on task for the thread's discussion, however, video-games like The Last of Us, Batman: Arkham City, BioShock: Infinite, and various others carry various superb storytelling elements. The Last of Us, in-particular, has some of the most in-depth characters that I have ever seen, in that, I find myself over-analyzing them, but unlike other experiences with such act, I find that I can actually over-analyze and only continue to find legitimate depth. I really enjoyed the Joel character, and his transformations and transitions as the story progressed. The scenery is also something that I believe should garner some acclaim, the attention to detail and the embroidery tell the story about as well as the characters. The game-play, of course, adds a dynamic that is unique from literature and film, but I don't consider that something that should inflict punitive damage to the work as a whole. 

In conclusion, I believe the storytelling aspect of video-games have improved drastically, become more cinematic, and more ambitious, and yeah, it's good stuff!

---

I don't suppose anybody has read the Assassin's Creed or Gears of War novels?


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## Elvenswordsman

I actually would compare video games as a medium to write through for a gamer. It gives control over the action, where a novel or film doesn't. Novels are more immersive than films, but games can be completely at the discretion of the user. Especially with modding available now, people can do what they want with them.


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## 19Ross

If we're talking about writing in videogames, I have to mention the Mass Effect series. (Let's not talk about the ending, please) I think it's probably the best example of choice being used to tell a story. They did a good job of making the right thing to do very difficult, either because it won't help you directly, or because there simply _is _no "right" answer. 

Bioshock did this incredibly well too, by _removing_ choice in order to prove a point. I won't spoil the plot, but suffice to say it was a pretty great, almost satirical take on storytelling in games.  I've heard people compare choice-based system in games to a "choose-your-own-adventure" book, but I think these games (along with countless others) prove the comparison faulty.


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## Smith

I think that's the beauty of writing in video games. Some of them are designed in a way where YOU create the story, with a basic premise, setting, and general outline surrounding it. Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3 / New Vegas, even Red Dead Redemption all come to mind.

Then there are others that are more linear, or with some choices (like Bioshock or Mass Effect, as mentioned above) but tell a phenomenal story that can really make you think, and takes you away to a whole different world. There have even been games, namely Assassin's Creed for me, that have taught me things. Not just about history, but even life.


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## Bruno Spatola

I think the choices you make in Fallout and Mass Effect are fairly binary, but the changes they make to your karma and character's history in those worlds are satisfying enough to make the writing feel that much more exciting because of it -- those little differences in dialogue trees, the way people treat you, who lives and dies. It gives an organic feeling, like nothing is set in stone, and it's built by you. You're a guest writer in those games, almost, and I can't wait for the systems to evolve and maximize the level of detail that can be applied to those choices. Not just alternate endings and superficial effects on your avatar; something deeper than that. Mass Effect was the next stage of that evolution -- I'd argue it's currently the king of that -- but what's coming next really excites me.

That's something films will arguably never have. A surprise every time you play them.

Bioshock had the thought-provoking grandiosity of a sci-fi classic; I could talk about it all day.


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## Morkonan

A short piece on The History of Interactive Fiction: http://inform7.com/if/interactive-fiction/

"Gaming" as interactive fiction isn't "new." I remember playing plenty of Infocom games as a kid. But, there were also the strictly print versions of interactive fiction, like the "Create your own adventure" series. Other forms of interactive fiction include certain stage plays and even magic and comedy acts that require audience-participation. IOW - Games aren't breaking completely new ground with their interactive qualities. They're just powerfully expanding upon a stage that was built long ago. (The Ancient Greek actors had rotten fruit thrown at them... a severe form of "Interactive Fiction", for the short moments before it turned into "Simple Battery.")

There are some good game storylines out there. Some of the "Ultima" series and, particularly, some of the D&D "Gold Box" games and their progeny had wonderful storylines. One of the most highly regarded of these is "Planescape: Torment."

Anything that tells a "story" has the burden placed upon it to provide the audience with an "experience." The player/reader expects a new experience and that's something that any writer of fiction must provide. Even non-fiction sometimes requires the writer to provide new ideas and information to the Reader. After all, why else is the Reader reading it?

Enriching a game experience by expanding upon that interaction by providing yet more experience, that contained within an accompanying fictional story, is what good game writing does. Providing the gamer the ability to interact with that "story" component in meaningful ways is at the heart of the problem that many developers concerned with the interactive qualities of their games are attempting to overcome. Sometimes, it turns out great... other times, not so much.

If my character, or the character I'm experiencing being in the story/game, acquires a BFG 9000, is that experience going to be better if the acquisition of that powerful item is part of an exciting and dramatic sub-plot? Youbetcha. But, if I can stumble across it, anywhere, then no amount of dramatic writing is going to add to the "experience" of acquiring it.

Most games that have "stories" are Role-Playing games. It makes sense, right? After all, Dungeon and Dragons (and its early incarnations) spawned much of this form of storytelling, where characters have a direct and substantive impact on the "story" as it unfolds, since the story is really about them, after all. But, that doesn't have to be the case. Other games that are in non-RPG genres have "stories" that are either intrinsic to the gameplay experience, like Sid Meir's "Alpha Centauri", or are emergent qualities, like some of the experience that other 4X games offer. (The mod for Civilization IV called "Fall From Heaven II and Rise From Erubus come to mind.) In the latter, the "story" is an emergent quality of the gameplay experience. The "writers" have put enough "characters" and "motives/goals" (AI/Victory Conditions) within the game to provide all that is needed for a player to create their own story, revolving around their crafted Civilization or Leaders and their paths to victory or defeat.

Personally, I've had plenty of great ideas and solutions to storytelling problems that have evolved from gameplay experience... Some games can be an idea factory! But, that's only true with certain 4X games that I've chosen to personalize. I haven't had such an experience in many of the "rail-shooter-like" RPG games that have hit the markets the last decade or so. But, I'm not a big "shooter" fan and hate to think I'm ripping off some half-baked storyline from such a game. But, with certain 4x games, I can "create my own story" and then apply certain problems to it while searching for solutions.


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## kasumi

There's a game called Valiant Hearts that I finished recently, and it's simply beautiful.

It's a tale of war told in a puzzle platformer style with unique and cartoony art, but while it looks a bit childish at first, the game's seriousness and depth was enough to make me cry. And I don't cry easily when it comes to media. Heck, I didn't cry at the end of The Walking Dead game (season 1, haven't played 2 yet), but Valiant Hearts made me bawl.

It shows the perspective of five different characters, all with their own views and sides and relations to each other. One of them is a war dog. They all come together to tell a beautiful, heartwarming and heartbreaking story of WWI and the effect it had on people's lives; and it goes for any war, really. The story is told beautifully, with limited dialogue but several pick-up notes and letters that give miniature history lessons.

I definitely suggest checking it out.


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## Nemesis

A gaming thread I didn't know about?

:O


unthinkable.


I love games with stories, interactive (RPG) is better but if the play is good enough I don't mind just being pulled along for the ride. My first thought, obviously, would be the Mass Effect series (sans ending) the amount of thought put into the characters and their stories and the depth of most of them is fantastic. These people become your best friends, they've fought with you, sometimes against you, talked you out of bad ideas or supported you even when you probably looked insane. You can even fall in love ^^ and when you lose them due to your own mistake or because they are sacrificing themselves for the greater good it _hurts_.

On top of that the choices you make will actually effect the story, for better or worse. That guy you wouldn't talk to in game one becomes a bad guy in game two without your much needed direction, and if you never talk him down then either he dies instead of sacrificing himself in game three to save a shuttle full of children fleeing from a war-torn planet. 

And that's just a footnote in the game.

I've heard great things about TWD game (it's on my wishlist) and The Last of Us (a stong female lead who doesn't dress like she's going to fetish part? CRAZY)



> Bioshock had the thought-provoking grandiosity of a sci-fi classic; I could talk about it all day.



It's as beautiful as it is terrifying

Love the atmosphere, the background details (posters, music, and adverts XD)

Elegant and creepy at once with a healthy dash of black humor

"Would you kindly?"


----------



## Bruno Spatola

There's another couple gaming threads from a while back I posted a _tonne_ in. Here they are (same names almost): 

http://www.writingforums.com/threads/115557-What-Game-Are-You-Playing

http://www.writingforums.com/threads/125243-What-Game-Are-You-Playing

Gosh, that first thread makes me cringe! Why did nobody tell me I came across as a bigoted know-it-all?


----------



## Smith

Assassin's Creed was one of my favorite series of all time, and I found the story infinitely intriguing, smart, fascinating...

Until it turned into a cash-cow.


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## Boofy

I agree! But I would go one step further and add: "Until it became Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull". It's a real shame because they were brilliantly funny and intelligently written. In the end it was the story that let the series down for me, though the cash-cow could use a break from being milked too.


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## Smith

Boofy said:


> I agree! But I would go one step further and add: "Until it became Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull". It's a real shame because they were brilliantly funny and intelligently written. In the end it was the story that let the series down for me, though the cash-cow could use a break from being milked too.



Haha yeah. I always figured the story suffered from Ubisoft wanting more $$$ out of the series, so they had to change things and draw it out rather than give it a true, proper ending.


----------



## Jeko

Best storytelling in a video game:_ Dark Souls_. Gives the traditional 'epic' fantasy fare a very minimal, modern feel, to the extent that you can entirely miss the numerous incredible storylines if you aren't paying attention to them.

If only I could be so grossly incandescent.


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## Bruno Spatola

Yeah, _Demon's/Dark Souls_ has a very unique way of revealing itself to you. It's all there if you just read, and listen. You aren't 'told_'_ what's going on, and you're not 'shown', either; a few puzzles pieces are thrown in your general vicinity, but it's up to you to make them fit, somehow. It's like you're a child, trying to work out what the grown-ups are saying. A throwback to text adventure games, I think. I love games that don't try to be like films, of which Souls is a flag-flyer.

There's some heartbreaking stuff in that series, though. Few games make you feel you've done the wrong thing like that does, no matter what it is. In that world, they're all sinners. (Some with less stained souls, of course, but stained nonetheless.) 

PS: That opening cutscene is incredible, and sets up the experience pretty well. Dawn of man stuff always gets me going.


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## Nemesis

> Best storytelling in a video game:_ Dark Souls_. Gives the traditional 'epic' fantasy fare a very minimal, modern feel, to the extent that you can entirely miss the numerous incredible storylines if you aren't paying attention to them.



LOVE

even though it beats me senseless each time I play it. Dark souls is so cruel to me D:


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## Mondestrunken

I can't really play video games because I'm extremely susceptible to simulator sickness. However, watching other people play games doesn't seem to bother me too much and I've found I love doing it because it's like watching a great tv show or film. I get into watching others play games as if I were at the theater, it's just that entertaining.

It also reminds me of a recent pet-peeve of mine, which is the lack of good writing in indie games, especially indie horror games. I understand a lot of creators are doing things all on their own with little to no budget, but I've come across so many games that have fantastic ideas, but the creator just doesn't have the chops to flesh out the story and it's a real shame. I've even expressed wanting to help out indie game creators so they can make the most out of their ideas, but haven't really found an opportunity to do so.


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## Bruno Spatola

Mondestrunken said:


> It also reminds me of a recent pet-peeve of mine, which is the lack of good writing in indie games, especially indie horror games. I understand a lot of creators are doing things all on their own with little to no budget, but I've come across so many games that have fantastic ideas, but the creator just doesn't have the chops to flesh out the story and it's a real shame. I've even expressed wanting to help out indie game creators so they can make the most out of their ideas, but haven't really found an opportunity to do so.



I think being annoyed at bad writing in indie horror games is like being annoyed at bad music in a cheap wine bar, ha, though I do share your pain. I would be interested in which games you're referring to specifically, though; some of the stuff Markiplier and those guys play do have bad writing, let's not pretend, but who knows how far along on their creative journeys those programmers and writers are? I give a lot of leeway to those types of games, in Steam's greenlight program or whatever. Bad writing is often the very least of their problems! I think the thousands of indie horror games are just shit in general, on multiple levels, but some stand out: _Cry of Fear_ (amazing music!), _Penumbra_, _Amnesia, Outlast, The Last Door, Year Walk, _etc_. _Things like _Slender_ are for the scares and nothing more, although the way that character was born is pretty interesting.

Having said all that, even professional horror games have bad writing sometimes. Shinji Mikami's _Evil Within_ is shocking, and not in a good way.

PS: Have you played games like _The Crimson Room_? Simple flash stuff like that can be surprisingly effective, with very little writing.


----------



## Mondestrunken

Bruno Spatola said:


> I think being annoyed at bad writing in indie horror games is like being annoyed at bad music in a cheap wine bar, ha, though I do share your pain. I would be interested in which games you're referring to specifically, though; some of the stuff Markiplier and those guys play do have bad writing, let's not pretend, but who knows how far along on their creative journeys those programmers and writers are? I give a lot of leeway to those types of games, in Steam's greenlight program or whatever. Bad writing is often the very least of their problems! I think the thousands of indie horror games are just shit in general, on multiple levels, but some stand out: _Cry of Fear_ (amazing music!), _Penumbra_, _Amnesia, Outlast, The Last Door, Year Walk, _etc_. _Things like _Slender_ are for the scares and nothing more, although the way that character was born is pretty interesting.
> 
> Having said all that, even professional horror games have bad writing sometimes. Shinji Mikami's _Evil Within_ is shocking, and not in a good way.
> 
> PS: Have you played games like _The Crimson Room_? Simple flash stuff like that can be surprisingly effective, with very little writing.



Oh, I'm aware that there are tons and tons of indie horror games that are just crap in general. I'm having trouble thinking of examples right now, but I'm mostly speaking on ones where it was like I could SEE what they were going for thematically, they were good story-tellers, they just had trouble getting it across in the writing aspect. Of course, the atmosphere of the games in question would also be really good and it was always just a shame to me that the writing was the thing really holding it back from being truly great. 

The Crimson Room sounded familiar so I looked it up, and I actually have played that. I agree it and others like it are very well done for being so simple.


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## Bruno Spatola

I agree with you, yeah. It's a shame, considering how much work they put into the atmosphere and sound design. When they realize that writing is as valuable an ingredient of the horror game recipe, we'll see them improve I bet. Pacing is especially crucial to horror, and that falls under 'writing' in my book, whether by computer code, or the written word. 

Still, when there is a gem in that genre, it shines all the more brightly


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## Smith

I played the Amnesia series and I must say that the writing in these games is superb for "indie horror." In fact, I almost stopped calling Frictional Games an indie developer because of the quality. Now I'm going back and playing Penumbra, and while a little more rough around the edges... the story telling is still wonderful, and I must recommend. Only on the second Penumbra game at the moment, but so far it's just as good as the first, and I can't wait to play the third (which I hear is more puzzles and less scares).

SOMA looks good too, their new game coming out this year I think. It's a lot more psychologically thrilling rather than cheap jump scares, which sounds good to me. You can watch some of the teaser trailers on YouTube and they are really quite disturbing.


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## Bruno Spatola

I'm very much looking forward to SOMA. The environments are lovely and dense, from what I've seen. Cables and metal oddities snaking about all over the ship. 

I'm hoping for _Alien_ underwater. Still don't really know what the game is.


----------



## J.T. Chris

I think video games still are years away before they catch up to the writing quality of literature, but there are a few exceptions. I enjoyed the writing in _Mass Effect._


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## Bruno Spatola

Really? I found it average in the writing department. Good dialogue and characters, but rubbish main story. Games like _Bioshock, __GTA, _and_ Red Dead Redemption _have far superior writing.

The medium in its modern form is still very young.


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## Bishop

Bruno Spatola said:


> Really? I found it average in the writing department. Good dialogue and characters, but rubbish main story. Games like _Bioshock, __GTA, _and_ Red Dead Redemption _have far superior writing.
> 
> The medium in its modern form is still very young.



Story in ME2 was the best, by far. Characters are what really shined in that series. 

Surprisingly, Wolfenstein New Order has a good story line, with deeply flawed characters throughout the main cast--not something I expected in the least, but am pleasantly surprised by.


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## Bruno Spatola

The new _Wolfenstein_ was done be ex-Starbreeze employees. They did the fantastic game _The_ _Darkness__. _All the characters are flawed in that game, plus Mike Patton voiced the Darkness! I have the TopCow comics, too; love 'em. 

Oh, the modern Starbreeze team did _Brothers_, which has a lovely story.

 I've not played _The New Order, _but it's on my list.


----------



## Bishop

Bruno Spatola said:


> The new _Wolfenstein_ was done be ex-Starbreeze employees. They did the fantastic game _The_ _Darkness__. _All the characters are flawed in that game, plus Mike Patton voiced the Darkness! I have the TopCow comics, too; love 'em.
> 
> Oh, the modern Starbreeze team did _Brothers_, which has a lovely story.
> 
> I've not played _The New Order, _but it's on my list.



Not surprised to hear they're experienced with good games. It's a high recommendation for me. I got my start gaming on Doom and Wolfenstein 3-d and in a lot of ways this game combines the best of those old style level-based shooters and turns them to a modern twist with a great story. Boss fights can be punishing, stealth sections are actually engaging and versatile, the story, while absurd at times, has this strangely believable quality to it... all in all, I was shocked especially since the last Wolfenstein (while still good) was a bit more like a linear, generic shooter.


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## Bruno Spatola

I thought the Wolfenstein reboot a while back was a mess, but the new sequel looks way better.

 I enjoy WW2 scenarios with an odd twist. _The Darkness_ has sections set in Hell, where WW2 is still going on. The main character finds himself there whenever he dies. You have to fight there, and find your grandfather who was the first Estacado to be inhabited by the ancient force. It's kickass. Black skies crackling, metal behemoths everywhere. Kinda scary too.

Starbreeze also did _Escape from Butcher Bay,_ the best adaptation of a movie into a game. I'm a big _Pitch Black_ fan, though...

_Doom and Wolftenstein 3D_ are classics, of course. I liked _Return to Castle Wolfenstein_, also.

-

Edit: About _Mass Effect 2_, the introduction of The Illusive Man brought the writing to another level. Highly complicated character, plus Martin Sheen. Bliss.


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## Bishop

Bruno Spatola said:


> _Doom and Wolftenstein 3D_ are classics, of course. I liked _Return to Castle Wolfenstein_, also.



I've been a Wolfenstein fan forever. Played and beaten them all, liked them all--though admittedly the 2008 Wolfenstein was the worst of the bunch. Anything involving top secret bases and evil governments... Love that stuff.

- - - Updated - - -



Bruno Spatola said:


> Edit: About _Mass Effect 2_, the introduction of The Illusive Man brought the writing to another level. Highly complicated character, plus Martin Sheen. Bliss.



He's about 60% of the reason ME2 is my favorite of the series. Also, if you've not yet played GTA:5, do so. It's a fantastic addition to a great series, with far better characters than 4--or really, any of the other GTA games. The satire is thick and hilarious, as always, and the mechanics are awesome. First person mode, as well, is AMAZING.


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## Bruno Spatola

_San Andreas_ has better writing, and a better cast - Chris Penn, Samuel L Jackson, etc -- but five is incredible, yes. I don't have the PS4 version, so no first-person mode for me.

The original soundtrack is also phenomenal. It was done by Tangerine Dream, you know! They're legends of electronic music. The radio stations are a wonderful mix, too. Honestly, those two games could be great movies.


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## Bishop

Bruno Spatola said:


> _San Andreas_ has better writing, and a better cast - Chris Penn, Samuel L Jackson, etc -- but five is incredible, yes. I don't have the PS4 version, so no first-person mode for me.
> 
> The original soundtrack is also phenomenal. It was done by Tangerine Dream, you know! They're legends of electronic music. The radio stations are a wonderful mix, too. Honestly, those two games could be great movies.



I actually prefer the Tangerine dream music to the radio xD Though, my favorite soundtrack of all GTAs was Vice City. By a long shot... VRock and FlashFM still drive me wild.

I liked San Andreas A LOT, don't get me wrong, but I'm more partial to the mash up of characters in 5. Especially Michael, the middle aged retired bad guy who already made his fortune. And of course, Trevor's insanity is a blast to watch... Franklin is inferior to CJ, though, and Samuel Jacksen was a great villain... all in all, more games need to be made like Rockstar makes games. 

LA Noire and Red Dead Redemption (NO spoilers, I'm near the end of both of these games--late, I know, but I never want them to end so I play them sparsely) are phenomenal stories as well, with gameplay that just somehow fits each game differently, yet still somewhat the same.


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## Bruno Spatola

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. GTAV has those _lovely_ Michael Mann vibes all the way through. Michael and Trevor's relationship is unbelievably complicated. It makes Tony Soprano's exchanges with his therapist seem boring as hell, ha.

The last two or three hours of _Red Dead_ are three of the best hours I've spent in a game. The middle section in Mexico made me hate it for a long time, and John Marston will never interest me, but my god, it's good stuff near the end. Delicious, in fact.


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## Folcro

I plan on playing 5 when it comes to the PC, I'm glad to be hearing good things about the story, was reluctant at first. San Andreas is by far my favorite of the series, and my third favorite game of all time. The way the game gave me an adventure through many worlds and cultures, the many different people, friends and enemies, I encountered on this Californian Odyssey, I'll never forget it. Would probably have more playthroughs were it not for the Red Barron mission.

And Mike Torrino is one of the best characters in a game, right up there with Vivec and Mr. House.


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## Smith

I liked GTA IV, although the story was a bit meh. That's probably why Episodes From Liberty City has been sitting in my Steam Library uninstalled and unplayed since I bought it two years ago. Personally can't wait to try V, just waiting for it to come to PC. If we're going to talk characters, some of my favorites would have to be Ezio Auditore and Altair (Connor from AC3 was so unlikable for me it wasn't even funny) from Assassin's Creed, and GLaDOS from Portal. A few honorable mentions, like M'aiq the Liar, The Adoring Fan , and many more from The Elder Scrolls games. Almost too many for me to choose from in TES and Fallout games!

In the spirit of characters in horror games, I'm yet to play one where I truly am invested in the character. Like, "I feel for them" or something like that. I always felt sort of detached in Amnesia: The Dark Descent and currently in the Penumbra games, although Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs comes _very_ close. It's like they try and they try... but I just. can't. get into them enough to care. Maybe that's for my own good. The games tend to scare me enough as they are without a real emotional connection.


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## Bruno Spatola

I felt for Heather in _Silent Hill 3_. Detached teenage girl pushing through the geographic Greek tragedy that is Silent Hill. I always have a spot for people who feel genuinely lost, though. That whole game is a metaphor for the disconnect you can feel with the world.

In general, I agree, but that's horror, really. You never known when they'll be dragged under by something, so you cushion yourself from them, ha.

-

I hated Niko in GTA IV, but the game was alright. Still fun.


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## Folcro

Bruno Spatola said:


> I hated Niko in GTA IV, but the game was alright. Still fun.



Crybaby, wasn't he? I can still hear his wining echoing in silent rooms.


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## Bruno Spatola

Yeah, he was! Always complaining about what he _hasn't_ got; always coveting the happiness of others, instead of understanding that people like him are never happy. He's the murderous equivalent of George Costanza, but without the humour. Roman was funny, though.


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## Bishop

Bruno Spatola said:


> I hated Niko in GTA IV, but the game was alright. Still fun.





Folcro said:


> Crybaby, wasn't he? I can still hear his wining echoing in silent rooms.





Bruno Spatola said:


> Yeah, he was! Always complaining about what he _hasn't_ got; always coveting the happiness of others, instead of understanding that people like him are never happy. He's the murderous equivalent of George Costanza, but without the humour. Roman was funny, though.



It's a shame, because Niko could have been great if they had given him a transformative moment where he realized he was just destined to be a hitman. Like where he put on a suit, embraced his one great ability in the wake of the (SPOILER ALERT) death of his girlfriend and just went full on Agent 47.


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## Mondestrunken

Bruno Spatola said:


> I felt for Heather in _Silent Hill 3_. Detached teenage girl pushing through the geographic Greek tragedy that is Silent Hill. I always have a spot for people who feel genuinely lost, though. That whole game is a metaphor for the disconnect you can feel with the world.



I love love love the Silent Hill games (at least up to a certain point). I think playing the first 3 you're bound to connect with the characters, because the subject matter can be so heavy and is really reliant on the main characters mental and emotional journey.


----------



## Smith

Bruno Spatola said:


> I felt for Heather in _Silent Hill 3_. Detached teenage girl pushing through the geographic Greek tragedy that is Silent Hill. I always have a spot for people who feel genuinely lost, though. That whole game is a metaphor for the disconnect you can feel with the world.
> 
> In general, I agree, but that's horror, really. You never known when they'll be dragged under by something, so you cushion yourself from them, ha.





Mondestrunken said:


> I love love love the Silent Hill games (at least up to a certain point). I think playing the first 3 you're bound to connect with the characters, because the subject matter can be so heavy and is really reliant on the main characters mental and emotional journey.



Hmm, I'll take it into consideration. Never played them. I guess a Resident Evil reboot is coming out? Might try that too!

One series of games that unexpectedly scared me was Resistance: Fall of Man. I don't think I was older than 10 when I played the first one, and my goodness... it made me sick to my stomach. Don't know what it was. All I remember was charging up some streets with a ton of soldiers, then before I knew it after a bunch of terrifying screaming there was silence... broken with eerie noises, on-point music and horrifying aliens. The noises they'd make were scary enough, let alone having to face them with minimal ammunition! And again, where were all my allies? They'd been slaughtered in a minute like an extraterrestrial Normandy.

If I go back and play it now, it probably wouldn't be so bad, but back then it made me sick with anxiety. Told my dad it was too scary and that we'd have to return it the next day. xD


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## Bruno Spatola

Mondestrunken said:


> I love love love the Silent Hill games (at least up to a certain point). I think playing the first 3 you're bound to connect with the characters, because the subject matter can be so heavy and is really reliant on the main characters mental and emotional journey.



I have high hopes for the Del Toro/Kojima helmed reboot. The P.T. teaser was a promising proof of concept, and with Norman Reedus playing the main character, it should have the best acting of any of the games.

I won't start squealing just yet, but I'm excited.


----------



## Ibb

My only gripe with storytelling in videogames is the recent insecurity that's seeped into the comments of the industry; everyone is apparently obsessed with being mature, and in the wake of Last of Us' success its seems only inevitable that more people will strive for the highs Naughty Dog hit with derivative serious stories of their own. Which isn't to say I disliked LOU--I loved it. But Naughty Dog has become a giant presence in the mainstream side of things, and everyone mimics the moves of the home runners. Once Uncharted 2 garnered all its awards everyone everywhere was going cinematic. 

Anyways: I liked the storytelling in Shadow of the Colossus. Very little dialogue, but a lot of emotional impact. I recently bought a PS4 and played through Infamous: Second Son. Delsin (the MC) is a pompous brat. But he's a well written, believable, and human brat, who shows kindness and empathy alongside his selfishness and artistic temperment. I've never believed that a good character has to be a likable one, and he certainly felt like the former moreso than the latter. His brother Reggie, and the antagonist Augustine were really well written, too, despite their little screen time. The game certainly felt like a launch title. But Sucker Punch did a lot with those characters in just a few strokes. I wouldn't mind a sequel.


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## Bruno Spatola

Delsin and Reggie are pretty much Peter and Nathan from the TV show _Heroes_, but they're fun to watch in that game. 

I _did_ dislike _The Last of Us _-- it's one of the most unoriginal things I've ever sat through, and the gameplay is janky as sin on the harder difficulties -- but it at least tried to be something more than the sum of its parts. People who say that it's the peak of storytelling in the medium simply don't know what they're talking about, but I don't begrudge others when they enjoy something. We all know what we like.

_Uncharted 2_ has fun characters. I liked it, but the shooting is rubbish.

_Shadow of the Colossus_ is a masterclass in minimalist storytelling; as is _ICO_.


----------



## OddEvy

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver (series). By far the most amazing writing I've yet seen in a game. Heres just the opening from the first game, all heard during the opening cinematic (I strongly suggest searching youtube for 'soul reaver intro', the voice acting is awesome [and its a very old game at this point]).



> *Raziel:*
> Kain is deified.  The Clans tell tales of Him.  Few know the truth.  He was mortal once, as were we all.  However, His contempt for humanity drove him to create me, and my brethren. I am Raziel, first-born of His lieutenants.  I stood with Kain and my brethren at the dawn of the empire. I have served Him a millennium.  Over time, we became less human and more ...divine.  Kain would enter the state of change and emerge with a new gift.  Some years after the master, our evolution would follow.  Until I had the _honor_ of surpassing my lord.  For my transgression, I earned a new kind of reward... agony.
> 
> There was only one possible outcome - my eternal damnation.  I, Raziel, was to suffer the fate of traitors and weaklings - to burn forever in the bowels of the Lake of the Dead.
> 
> Tumbling, burning with white-hot fire, I plunged into the depths of the abyss.  Unspeakable pain... relentless agony... ... time ceased to exist...  ... only this torture... and a deepening hatred of the hypocrisy that damned me to this hell.
> An eternity passed, and my torment receded, bringing me back from the precipice of madness.  The descent had destroyed me... and yet I lived.


The series has a lot of really awesome writing, particularly between Raziel, the protagonist, and Kain who serves as antagonist. If anyone has some time to spend and wants a good story, either reading the story online or watching a "movie edit" of the games isn't a bad way to pass the time.


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## S-wo

I'll make a separate thread for this if I need to, but has anyone here been employed to write for a video game studio? That is my initial goal at the moment.


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## Smith

S-wo said:


> I'll make a separate thread for this if I need to, but has anyone hear been employed to write for a video game studio? That is my initial goal at the moment.



I was interested in the same thing S-Wo.


----------



## Atlantean

Well, if you are a fan of creative writing in video games then I highly suggest the PC game Divinity: Original Sin. The game is a fantasy master piece and the writing is pretty superb in its self. I highly recommend it.


----------



## Smith

One game that disappointed me (there are many from 2014) was Civilization Beyond Earth. I thought the quests would be really unique and interesting, and vary from game to game, perhaps with different rewards or requirements sometimes.

Instead, it's the same thing over and over. Identical quests, in the exact order it was the last dozen playthroughs. Haven't looked into it, but I'm starting to wonder if maybe I can mod my game with new quests off the Steam Workshop. In any case, I think having the same alien and planet designs is also boring and completely lacking in effort. Out of the thousands, perhaps millions of earth-like planets, you're telling me they'd be exactly the same? Nice try Firaxis...


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## Bruno Spatola

They did an excellent job with _X-COM_, but I've heard how disappointed people were with _Beyond Earth_. The Giant Bomb guys were talking about it, recently. I've heard Sid Meier is trying to fix some of the problems people had for the new game, _CIV: Starships_.


----------



## Boofy

I've heard the term re-skin thrown around with regards to Beyond Earth. I cancelled my pre-order for good measure but I haven't had a spare moment to look at it again.


----------



## Smith

Boofy said:


> I've heard the term re-skin thrown around with regards to Beyond Earth. I cancelled my pre-order for good measure but I haven't had a spare moment to look at it again.



For the most part, it is a re-skin.

All the factions lack character. They feel pretty much the same really, with the exception of certain little bonuses and what not. The quest system was a nice idea but poorly and lazily implemented. Aliens are just barbarians. Rather disappointing.

If the aliens varied from planet to planet (let's say a dozen different species and a many different bonuses and abilities), quests changed, and the factions had some more character I'd thoroughly enjoy the game. But right now the only way to save Beyond Earth is with a few good DLCs, just like with Civilization V. Or, you can mod it using Steam Workshop, which is what I intend on doing.


----------



## Boofy

I'll not give Gaben my money just yet then ;3


----------



## dgirl1986

I think that games in recent years have really raised the bar in regards to storyline and the game "universe". Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls are my favourite games. Not just because of the way they are played, but the game universes are just amazing. I also enjoyed the books that came out in the Dragon Age series too.


----------



## Bruno Spatola

And it's not just classic 'hero saves the world' stories that games have gotten so much better at; the level of interaction and environmental cues that are unique to video games has enabled people to create a whole new genre of minimalist story telling, much more like paintings or other wordless art.Take Fumito Ueda's_ ICO_, for instance. That game has very little dialogue, and the version I played doesn't even have subtitles in a known language. That's beyond a foreign movie; that's literally _being _foreign in another world. There was a script and it was all written out, but the director removed this to add another layer of true fantasy, of the unknown. Why that is a stroke of genius is because everything you need to know is told visually, if you don't mind looking for it -- why the boy has been left in this crumbling temple to die; the girl's relationship to the the queen of the island, etc. This isn't complicated stuff, but the process of finding those story beats with your own intuition is just as (if not more) rewarding than traditional storytelling. Other games that excel at this: Limbo, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, The Swapper, Transistor, Dark Souls, etc.

Even stretching the umbrella to licensed games there has been truly brilliant story telling, such as the intimate, cerebral labour of love that was _Batman: Arkham Asylum; _or the fantastically twisted yet somehow evocative story of_ The Darkness; or Escape From Butcher Bay's _total competence in transferring a classic movie anti-hero (Riddick) into an equally compelling world that only works in the gaming medium, and adds important, interesting story info that you would never have gotten otherwise; and the horrifying brilliance of _Alien: Isolation_. More recently, Platinum's treatment of Transformers and the promising new TMNT game by them is sending even _that_ troubled corner of games in a better direction.

My favourite story in the last few years has to be in the puzzle game _The Talos Principle_. You're constantly finding information in the world and inside the hidden computer terminals that tell you how the imaginary realm you're wandering, solving arbitrary puzzles, is a simulation that many AIs have been put through to produce the perfect thinking robot that can figure out how to leave and be a worthy extension of the now-deceased humanity's body of art, philosophy, and science. A successor, really. The extra content for that game, Road to Gehenna, has a genius story all its own. You're freeing other AIs who defied Elohim, the "God" in the simulation, who have been imprisoned behind devious puzzles. The AIs in all their thousands of years being trapped have managed to create a community via the terminals -- a forum -- where they share writing, ideas, and art, to prevent themselves going insane. You're sent by "God" to free them, and become part of this community on the way, where you can choose what to say to sound helpful, scarily dogmatic, and so on. Some of the threads are locked, so your comments have to be upvoted so your level increases and your privileges upgrade. It's so much fun gaining trust and preparing everyone for the system purge that's imminent. I've never had as much of a religious-type experience as I did when playing this game. With its beautifully church-like soundtrack, stunning imagery, deeply detailed and interesting story, I found myself moved in ways few games have.

Basically, yes, I agree: storytelling overall has gotten way better in games, though there have always been gems. I talk too much...


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## belthagor

dgirl1986 said:


> I think that games in recent years have really raised the bar in regards to storyline and the game "universe". Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls are my favourite games. Not just because of the way they are played, but the game universes are just amazing. I also enjoyed the books that came out in the Dragon Age series too.



Writing in games is wonderful and lets you learn a lot!

Even if it's only through the endings... I could list a few names, but that would probably be advertising.


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## Smith

I can't tell you how much I've learned about the middle-east and Italy thanks to the Assassin's Creed games. Not to mention how well it interweaves this cool fictional sci-fi story into actual history.

The series lost me after Revelations, but before then... man, that was my jam!


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## Tukkis

When I was a kid I really liked JRPGs. Mostly for their stories. Persona 2: Innocent Sin was my favourite. It has quite an interesting story about rumours, false beliefs and urban legends and how they impact people's minds. Gameplay-wise the game was pretty bad.

I've been watching a let's play of Deadly Premonition. Should really finish that one. The story is messed up and weird, but alluring. The main character is insane, but not evil. So refreshing.


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## Bruno Spatola

Smith said:


> I can't tell you how much I've learned about the middle-east and Italy thanks to the Assassin's Creed games. Not to mention how well it interweaves this cool fictional sci-fi story into actual history.
> 
> The series lost me after Revelations, but before then... man, that was my jam!



Games can be fantastic teaching tools. My deep interest of mythology was burned into my brain when I played _God of War _at the age of thirteen. The Creed series also has that ability to add sparks to the often mundane treatment history was given at school. I was always into that stuff, but actually interacting with history in a deep way like games can allow is thrilling. The Civilization series is another favourite.

And with games like_ Kerbal Space Program_ and _Minecraft_, there's a whole knew style of practical learning in the gaming sphere. I find it endlessly exciting.


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## Sam

Bishop said:


> It's a shame, because Niko could have been great if they had given him a transformative moment where he realized he was just destined to be a hitman. Like where he put on a suit, embraced his one great ability in the wake of the (SPOILER ALERT) death of his girlfriend and just went full on Agent 47.



It didn't get much better in _GTA V. 
_
The only likeable character is Franklin. Trevor is a horrible mix of pyschopath and sociopath, who I threw off the top of tall buildings to make myself feel better; Michael is a cliche who whines about the fact that he's out of the criminal business, and then whines again when he gets back in; and Lamar gives Trevor a run in the psychopath of the week competition. Even Lester blows people up with their own phones! 

I know it's a game about bad people, but you look at Tommy Vercetti in _Vice City_, or CJ from _San Andreas_, and they were likeable characters. 

Franklin is the only person who is in any way well-adjusted.


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## Patrick

Sam said:


> It didn't get much better in _GTA V.
> _
> The only likeable character is Franklin. Trevor is a horrible mix of pyschopath and sociopath, who I threw off the top of tall buildings to make myself feel better; Michael is a cliche who whines about the fact that he's out of the criminal business, and then whines again when he gets back in; and Lamar gives Trevor a run in the psychopath of the week competition. Even Lester blows people up with their own phones!
> 
> I know it's a game about bad people, but you look at Tommy Vercetti in _Vice City_, or CJ from _San Andreas_, and they were likeable characters.
> 
> Franklin is the only person who is in any way well-adjusted.



I hated GTA after Vice City. It's quite weird because I loved Vice City as a kid because of Tommy Vercetti, the soundtrack, the City and the story.

Vice City will forever be the best GTA.


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