# About setting your story in another country?



## kmtw93 (Oct 29, 2013)

Have you ever set one of your stories in another country? I am from the UK, I live in Taiwan right now and I am starting a story but I think it will be better if it is set in the United States. The problem is, I've never been to there. Should I visit a country and experience it before writing? Have you ever set a story in a foreign country without visiting there?


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## Gavrushka (Oct 29, 2013)

Hey, and welcome to the site 

I tend to set my stories in a generic country, but may imply a location by certain pointers. (But I don't mention city names and the like in such instances.)

I don't think there is any need to have visited the country you wish to set your story in, but I would do a few weeks of background reading and perhaps have someone from the country in question check the work for factual errors.

I wish you well with your story.


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## The Tourist (Oct 29, 2013)

kmtw93 said:


> I think it will be better if it is set in the United States. The problem is, I've never been to there.



Bad idea, you'll get it more wrong than right.  Let me give you an example.

Most Americans have never been to England.  Yet, most of the things we "know" about England stem from James Bond movies and Princess Diana's death--these are the two biggest examples of being immersed in that media.

One foreign exchange student told me he had thought that all American cities had skyscrapers.  In driving in from our local airport he saw milk cows, just like in his home country.

We have big cities, but parts of our western states still have wilderness camping.  In some of the more remote areas, accessible only on horseback, guys still carry saddle guns for bears.  A remarkable number of working farms do not have plumbing or electricity.

Our wire services and newspapers are also a poor source for news.  Our media is predominantly liberal, yet there are as many red states as blue.  Most elections, even our national ones, hover at 50/50.  And even with all the leftist hype, most recent presidents struggle to hold an approval rating above 40%.  We're chuck-full of rednecks--the best selling vehicle in the USA is not a Lexus, it is the F-150 Ford truck.

If you took everything about us you think you know--then reversed it--you'd be closer to the truth.


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## Morkonan (Oct 29, 2013)

kmtw93 said:


> Have you ever set one of your stories in another country? I am from the UK, I live in Taiwan right now and I am starting a story but I think it will be better if it is set in the United States. The problem is, I've never been to there. Should I visit a country and experience it before writing? Have you ever set a story in a foreign country without visiting there?



Are you writing about "the Human Condition?" Most likely, you are. That doesn't change very much from country to country. People still love, are happy, filled with fear, anxious, hungry and try to survive, wherever they are. BUT, the specific things that impact those elements of the Human Condition are likely going to revolve around certain specific qualities in the Setting.

You only need to know the specific qualities that impact your characters and that are unique to the Setting that you're writing in.

That's not to say that you shouldn't be able to add all sorts of unique flavors to your story. After all, if I'm reading a story about a family in Botswana, I want to know more about their Setting than just "corrupt local officials." (Not saying there are any, there; Apologies to Botswanians.) Part of writing is providing Readers with new experiences. So, when you have a unique setting (In your Reader's estimation) it's a prime opportunity for you to provide that full-fledged reading experience to your Reader, by gifting them with a new experience in full measure.

I wouldn't write a story that takes place in a present-day foreign country that I had no experience of without first find out what I absolutely needed to know in order to write a credible story. Then, I need to know what unique things about that country impact my characters and the story. Next up, I need to discover what new experiences I could give to my target Reader that can be found in that Setting. But, I don't have to travel there in order to do all of that. It certainly might help, but just a couple of weeks on a guided tour wouldn't give me full-flavored native knowledge of the country.

Have you seen the movie "American Graffiti," by George Lucas? Arguably, one of his best movies, if not the best he's ever done. It's a "Night in the Life" movie about rights of passage for adolescents coming out of High School and going on to College or the Vietnam War. It's just one night, but he manages to wonderfully capture the flavor of that particular time.

Have you ever seen any of the television series "The Andy Griffith Show?" It's a sitcom about small town life from the point-of-view of the local Sheriff. It's an idealized version, to be sure, but it successfully captures the flavor of small country town life during the time period. Wonderful stuff.

The theme here is that there may be ways for you to get the information you need without ever actually having visited a country. HOWEVER, of course, not all countries produce the variety of media that the United States does. We are a huge exporter of culture. It would be an entirely different prospect if you were writing about North Korea, for instance. Thankfully, there are a great many movies, books, television shows and documentaries about life in the United States from which you can gather information.

Plus, since The Internet exists, you have the luxury of being able to ask Real Live Americans ™ questions.  If you do, always ask for a full flavored answer and with as many references as you can get.


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## The Tourist (Oct 29, 2013)

Morkonan, great advice.

I do feel "American Graffiti" would be closer to 1964 at the beginning of the war years.  We still had street racers then, but the 1950s glow was fading.

For a time I lived in brand new subdivision in Fussville, Wisconsin.  It was a freshly plowed farm field, no sewage and gravel streets.  That area is now Menomonee Falls.  Yes, "Andy of Mayberry" is based on real small town living.  The "down town" area was the simply the junction of two main highways.

I can still hear the big-block Mopars run...


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## Sam (Oct 29, 2013)

The majority of the novels I've written have been set in America and I'm from Ireland. I've been to New York City once, yet I've had half a dozen novels take place there. How? Simple. It's a little thing called 'research'. Extensive research. 

It can be done. In fact, I had a traditionally published novel with events taking place in Russia, Afghanistan, and America. The majority of the readers were impressed by the depth of research and authentic dialogue employed throughout. So I don't think it's a 'bad' idea. You just have to be willing to put in months of research. If that sounds like too much work, then setting a novel in a place you aren't familiar with isn't for you.


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## The Tourist (Oct 29, 2013)

Sam said:


> Afghanistan...You just have to be willing to put in months of research.



Sam, you touch upon an excellent example.

Many Americans get their opinions about that section of the world from dramatic news film footage and eye-witness anecdotes from returning veterans.  Then people wonder why we think anyone in a turban is a terrorist.

In fact, if I was allowed to give young authors one word of advice on writing it would be "research."


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## Sintalion (Oct 29, 2013)

*Have you ever set one of your stories in another country? *
Yes.
*
 Should I visit a country and experience it before  writing? *
It would be nice if we all had that luxury, but for many writers it isn't possible. Even if you do visit, though, there's no guarantee that your two week's vacation is going to magically make your story any better or that you'll learn all the little nuances to really make it authentic. I grew up in a suburb of the tenth largest city in New England, and I'm still learning things about it. There are streets I haven't walked, restaurants I've never dined in, etc.

*Have you ever set a story in a foreign country without visiting  there?*
Yes.
I've never been to Norway, but that didn't stop me from writing a book set there. However, I did tons and tons of background research. Basically, I wanted it to sound realistic so I put in the time and effort to make it so. That's how I write about anything I haven't experienced myself. To be honest, there's some stuff I'm not willing to experience for the sake of the  story, such as being stabbed or falling into a river mid-winter or having an affair. Depending on what it is I'm researching I look at photos, videos, maps, diaries, journals, articles, people, books, etc. 

You don't have to go all crazy with your research, depending on the style of writing, but it helps to have the flavor.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Oct 29, 2013)

My entire story takes place on a completely different continent.  I get away with this because for the most part, it doesn't matter _where_ the story takes place, since the advancement centers on the characters.  The setting simply offers city names and geography.


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## Robdemanc (Oct 29, 2013)

I am from the UK and I would be very averse to setting my story in the US because my only knowledge of it is from Hollywood.  So I agree with what The Tourist said.  

However, having said that, it would only be an issue if your story concerned the here and now, or some historical period.  If your story was set in the future, particularly the far future, you would have more freedom to write it without present knowledge of what life in that country is like.


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## The Tourist (Oct 29, 2013)

Robdemanc, sounds like a "writing challenge" afoot.

The OP could write a story about the USA holding only to the "facts" gleaned from Citizen Kane, Easy Rider, and Gremlins.  I'll write a story based in Jolly Ol' England using only plots and jargon from the movies of James Bond and Mr. Bean.

The Toecutter from Australia will do the judging, since he's the only Aussie I know the best.


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## voltigeur (Oct 29, 2013)

Setting the entire story in another country may be an issue since you have no feel for the tapestry of the setting without experiencing it. If you go with the idea of setting it in the USA without ever visiting us then it is research research, research, research. In my current WIP a forth of the story happens in El Salvador. My research is very detailed and includes very mundane stuff. 

I also have much of the story set on US carriers without ever being on one. I have actually been studying the construction plans and interviewing people who had been on the ship telling me where different shops were, down to what ready rooms were used by what squadrons. 

Point is you will have to meticulously research the area, and the people. Fortunately the internet makes it easy to chat with people to get to know them but if the entire story is set in a place you need to visit it. 
Also for American remember if you are even 10 years removed from present day American cities and many towns will change drastically. Knowing how a town and looked what were the major hangouts is going to be a harder research project.  You almost need to get to the local libraries.


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## The Tourist (Oct 29, 2013)

voltigeur said:


> Also for American remember if you are even 10 years removed from present day American cities and many towns will change drastically.



You can thank Bill Clinton for that!  Because of "The Europa Confusion Act of 1996" all of our maps, GPS coordinates and viable currency must be changed every nine years and seven months.  Evidently he was not accepted at Cambridge and wanted to knock that smug grin off Brits' faces by having them ask farmers for directions.

The added benefit was that all of that starting and stopping burned out the clutches in their MGs.


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## voltigeur (Oct 29, 2013)

That is rich. 

So I guess developers and capitalism have nothing to do with it?

Have to laugh when all the world’s problems are laid at Bill Clinton.  He is not living rent free in my head.


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## The Tourist (Oct 29, 2013)

voltigeur said:


> Have to laugh when all the world’s problems are laid at Bill Clinton.



Well, as much as I hate to admit it, he did secure funding for our cold-fusion dentistry so that our teeth will always be straighter and whiter than the Brits, so there's that...


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## Pidgeon84 (Oct 29, 2013)

lol yes, lets make this a political debate. A dumb one at that.


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## Schrody (Nov 3, 2013)

Most of my stories are set in US, sometimes in real city eg. New York, San Francisco, and sometimes in imaginary. I do have some stories including London, and my home town. O And some are off this world.


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## The Tourist (Nov 4, 2013)

How about a cold dose of reality.  I think that the citizens of the world know more about America than we know about them.

For example, I can name three of four provinces in Canada, but I do not know which major cities stem from which province.  I know one such area in Mexico.  My wife and her circle of traveling clan take vacation trips to "the islands" every year, but I doubt I can find Aruba on a map.

Granted, I would admit that most of this is a "don't know don't care" situation.  I hate flying, I'm not interested in traveling abroad, and my vacations take place on a motorcycle on domestic Interstate highways.  I've also reached the age where if I learn a fact it pushes an old, more useless fact out of my cerebral cortex.

A few weeks ago my state had it's annual "dairy expo."  People from all over the world come here to study about and buy dairy cattle.  It is common for me to run across someone in the local coffee bar, and they speak remarkably perfect English.  They know stuff about Wisconsin I didn't know.

But then, being a Packer fan, I think going into Illinois is like visiting a foreign, far off land...


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## shadowwalker (Nov 4, 2013)

I have never set my stories in areas I'm really familiar with. Corn and soybean fields are not exactly conducive to thrillers or action/adventure stories (_North by Northwest_ notwithstanding). So yeah, research is essential. But be pragmatic as well. Get the main facts right - the minute details? Consider (and I'm probably repeating myself here from other threads) that the only people who will notice the wrong detail are the ones who live in that area; of those, how many will actually be reading your book; of those, how many will care? I've read many books that take place in NYC - would I know that a certain street has a certain store on a certain block? No way. And I'm not so anal as to look it up. I, like most readers, know I'm reading fiction and know the term "artistic license". Readers expect that. So like I say, get the major facts right (don't put Manhatten in Delaware) and then just write the story.


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## The Tourist (Nov 4, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> (don't put Manhatten in Delaware)



Wait a minute, it's not?

I'm one who does find an obvious error--no matter how minor--to derail an entire scene.  My wife and I were watching a thriller called "The Red Dragon," and we were on the edge of our seats--that is, until the hero off'ed the villain with six shots out of a Charter Arms Bulldog...

(I mean really, they make a very big deal about using that kind of revolver by name and even go so far as to name the brand and characteristics of the specific ammunition, and then screw up the count!  Amateur mistake!)

Since Shadowwalker and I share the same region, let me give you a fun American fact.  The only decent quarterback the Vikings ever had (save for Fran Tarkington) they stole from the Packers.


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## shadowwalker (Nov 4, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> I'm one who does find an obvious error--no matter how minor--to derail an entire scene.



Which is why I noted the difference between major facts and minute details.


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## The Tourist (Nov 4, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> Which is why I noted the difference between major facts and minute details.



Hmmm.  I understand your position, I'm not sure I react in the same fashion.  To me "major and minor errors" are a distinction without a difference.

If I used a knitting needle in a story to kill a victim--and I picked the wrong gauge--both my wife and two members here would call me on it.  To me it's a "yarn thingie."

Did you know that one of the most famous knives in cinema almost never made an appearance?  Sylvester Stallone went to see knifemaker Jimmy Lile to have some knives made for a movie.  The model he brought with him was so bizarre that Lile designed him an entirely new prop.

To you it might be a prop with a pointy end, but to much of the world it's the "Rambo Knife."


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## shadowwalker (Nov 4, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> Hmmm.  I understand your position, I'm not sure I react in the same fashion.  To me "major and minor errors" are a distinction without a difference.



Well, there will always be nitpickers. I ignore them. For example, how many people do you think got all disturbed and angry because there is no house on top of Mount Rushmore? (North by Northwest). As to gauges for knitting needles, if an author is going to be that anal about detail, they deserve any criticism they get. I'd call it a knitting needle, period.


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## The Tourist (Nov 4, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> be that anal about detail, they deserve any criticism they get. I'd call it a knitting needle, period.



Some novels appeal to a demographic where details are as much of the story as the characters.  Consider a book by Tom Clancy, for example.

Even if I wasn't a big aficionado of something--like knitting as long as we've touched upon it as an example--I'd still like to get the details right.  Hey, there must be lots of guys out there who like big, hairy, large caliber pistols and crocheting a nice afghan.

Look at my favorite mistake, the purchase of the book "Angelology."  I bent over backwards to find a woman in Canada to help me with female dialog.  I wanted to get it right; in seeing the Star Wars movies even I blanched on how poor men write for women.

But after reading "Angelology" (or at least the first 1/3 before I canned it) I wasn't sure the author had ever met a man, wings or no wings.


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## voltigeur (Nov 4, 2013)

I had to laugh out of disgust last night. My computer crashed and it took 2 weeks to get back to working on my WIP due to job search issues that took precedence. I had just finished the first scene of Chapter One, cleaned it up a bit and felt I had a good start on the draft.  Anyway I had to reload Google Earth and got new features. Turns out everywhere I thought I saw an alley for my characters to slink through while hiding from the Salvadoran police? Don’t exist. GRRRRRR LOL 

Well it is not a total rewrite but a let’s say a re-chorography. 

Shadowwalker: Thanks for the hints!  With almost 30 years removed from the events of my story and current maps and photos I will be getting very familiar with artistic license.  You comments helped me remember it is ok to keep perspective.


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## The Tourist (Nov 4, 2013)

voltigeur said:


> artistic license...You comments helped me remember it is ok to keep perspective.



I'm not implying that you have to use google maps to get the color of the garbage in that alley correct, I'm saying that there is a time to be a tad picky about what you're writing.

Let me give you a poignant example.  If I mentioned one item, a firearm invented in 1905, issued in 1911 and as common as dirt, you'd think I just told you everything there is to know, right?

You would be horribly incorrect.  If there's one item in all of the world of firearms that's debated to infinity and beyond, it's the 1911 pistol.  And I mean things like springs, magazines, sizes, calibers, clone versions, customization, politics, military use, civilian use, concealed carry, even the kind of rod or plunger design for the recoil assembly.  I saw a thread one time on the use of hex head 3/16s screws to hold the grip panels!

Yikes, I love that pistol and the fanaticism baffles me sometimes.  But you might not know if you didn't do research.

I wouldn't even mention ballroom dancing in one of my stories unless I did some research and respected the topic.

www.1911forum.com


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## David Gordon Burke (Nov 4, 2013)

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but aside from research, use google maps.  Drag that little orange guy to an random street and take a walk around.  It's a great way to get an idea of a foreign land or a city you don't know.
My next story is going to be set in Jacksonville Florida.  Why?  Cause I wanted it set in a US city in a warm area.  I opted for Florida.  I opened an atlas, closed my eyes and dropped my finger onto the map of the state.  Voila!
And why not?  It's a challenge to figure out a way to make it work.
My solutiion is a non-existant neighborhood / subdivision on the outskirts of the city.  That way I can paint with some faily broad strokes for the real city and detail stuff for an invented suburb.  Best of both worlds. 

David Gordon Burke


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## The Tourist (Nov 4, 2013)

David Gordon Burke said:


> I My solutiion is a non-existant neighborhood...That way I can paint with some fairly broad strokes for the real city and detail stuff for an invented suburb.



That's a great idea!  Enough research to tie the story to some bedrock, and enough wiggle room to allow ample creativity.


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## shadowwalker (Nov 5, 2013)

Which is exactly what I was referring to - get the basic facts straight and don't worry about the handful of people who will cry foul over the fictitious neighborhood. :deadhorse:


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## The Tourist (Nov 5, 2013)

The premise of the OP was that they had never been here.  No knowledge.  That's a big difference between even rudimentary research and some license.


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## shadowwalker (Nov 5, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> The premise of the OP was that they had never been here.  No knowledge.  That's a big difference between even rudimentary research and some license.



And? You see anyone telling the OP to just go ahead and write without any research whatsoever? Man...


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## The Tourist (Nov 5, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> And? You see anyone telling the OP to just go ahead and write without any research whatsoever? Man...



I see an entire culture saying that research is a minor concern.  For the purpose of this thread we are simply narrowing it to geography and points of interest.

By the very nature of the word "fiction," we are advancing the idea that we are constructing a tale, a yarn, a parable, a myth.  However, respect both the intelligence of the topic and the reader.

Pack ice in Aruba, a thriving red light district in Provo Utah, an nuclear power plant made entirely of oak slats in Amish country, and a decent Viking quarterback are all total flights of fantasy that destroy the fourth wall.


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## Jason (Nov 5, 2013)

Sure,  it is done all the time.  Traveling from country to country and having culturally focused experiences in those countries is a rather common occurrence in mystery and thriller spy type novels.  It is done more or less convincingly depending upon the skill and effort of the author.

You are in an absolute perfect place to write internationally.  As an expat living abroad you must have brushed (or painfully banged) against cultural differences so are probably more likely to be sensitive to the types of things that could make an insight for your writing.  

Just head down to the local pub, business chamber of commerce, or expat forum in your area and find a some people willing to read your MS for cultural hits and misses.  I have never been to Taiwan but assume there are bars that cater to Aussies, probably an Irish Pub, certainly a place the Brits congregate etc.   I know there a number of international schools and English language schools in Taiwan full of expat teachers from all over the English speaking world.   Any number of expat teachers should be happy to help out.  Tell them what your want then buy a few beers and you will have a night full of cultural experts explaining what they would do in a given situation or all about their home town/country.  After you have written something those same folks will be just as happy to have a go at your stuff to help evaluate the cultural correctness.


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## shadowwalker (Nov 5, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> I see an entire culture saying that research is a minor concern.



Possibly you do. But in this thread I see people encouraging research.


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## Newman (Nov 5, 2013)

Sintalion said:


> for many writers it isn't possible



Exactly.

Quite often you don't need to. Look at _Thor Dark World_ - the Earth scenes could have been set anywhere.


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## Macduff Inkwell (Nov 14, 2013)

As others said, research. Get your basic facts straight via reading and talking to the people of selected location online, etc. In the case of the United States, it might help to pick a general area of the country to put your story in and set it there. Though the people of Delaware, Florida, and Oregon are all Americans, they might have their own cultures within their own states, so keep that in mind.  For me, I like to create my own fictional city that I look up online just to make sure isn't an actual IRL city. 

If I'm not mistaken, our English is different from the English you use, so a Yank-Brit jargon book might help?

On a personal note, I got my 'British info' from Doctor Who and James Herriot.


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