# What if Christ didn't come to earth until today?



## thefallingsky&therain (Jan 17, 2008)

*Eli by Bill Myers.*​ 
*this is an AMAZING novel. you won't be able to stop reading it once you start. so read it. *
*=0)*​


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

The novel is "Eli"?  And the premise is the topic about Jesus?
Sounds interesting...I'll google it.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 17, 2008)

He'd've said "Fuck, but this is one shitload of a mess the old man's left for me to tidy up."


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

Well, literally if Jesus came back...the government would burn him to death at Waco.


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## Mike C (Jan 17, 2008)

Malone said:


> Well, literally if Jesus came back...the government would burn him to death at Waco.




And rightly so.

Either that or he'd end up on an obscure evangelical cable channel in a white suit, exhorting the masses to buy salvation with sizeable cash gifts. 

Seriously, though, nobody would take any notice (apart from the wierdos, who'll follow anyone), we're too cynical. Walk on water? Big deal, David Copperfield can do that, and better. Cure the sick? So what, the world's full of psychic healers. Get nailed to a cross? David Blaine will probably top that. 

To get anyone's attention these days he'd have to present the sermon on the mount as a powerpoint presentation, or post it on youtube.


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

Southpark actually did an episode on how un-impressive Jesus would be if he were around today.  They used David Blaine as an example of how "blah" Jesus' "miracles" were.
We're off topic now...and I still haven't googled the aforementioned book...

EDIT:  Just looked it up.  It's categorized as Christian/Religious.  That automatically turns me off...


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## Matt3483 (Jan 17, 2008)

Jesus never came to earth. He doesn't exist. So it would be exactly the same as it is now. I assume, therefore, that it's just a factual history book?


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

Jesus was just a man, nothing more, nothing miraculous, but it's pretty much accepted historical evidence that he did exist...


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## Matt3483 (Jan 17, 2008)

I should have clarified. Jesus as Christians render him did not exist. There is overwhelming evidence that a man named Jesus did exist--I realise that. I exist too, but you don't see many people praying to me as the son of 'God'.


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## deviger (Jan 17, 2008)

Matt3483 said:


> I should have clarified. Jesus as Christians render him did not exist. There is overwhelming evidence that a man named Jesus did exist--I realise that. I exist too, but you don't see many people praying to me as the son of 'God'.



Ah, but if you went around claiming you were the son of God some people might start worshiping you.


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## Faustling (Jan 17, 2008)

Matt3483 said:


> I should have clarified. Jesus as Christians render him did not exist. There is overwhelming evidence that a man named Jesus did exist--I realise that. I exist too, but you don't see many people praying to me as the son of 'God'.



While I agree that Jesus hardly was the son of God or anything else in that direction I doubt that "it would be exactly the same as it is now" since he, y'know, founded an enormous religion that has effected the world since then.


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## duck (Jan 17, 2008)

Faustling said:


> While I agree that Jesus hardly was the son of God or anything else in that direction I doubt that "it would be exactly the same as it is now" since he, y'know, founded an enormous religion that has effected the world since then.




I think Mel should do another movie...Call it the second coming, have christ born into a palestinian family and then have him killed by the IDF.

Could be like a Life of Brian part 2.


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## Faustling (Jan 17, 2008)

Sounds like an interesting idea. If nothing else, that could get the Palestinians some support from America.


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## SadLuckDame (Jan 17, 2008)

Why do post as if all would agree? Lacking even a small amount of couth, hmm that some or many would not share your opinions? I'm sorry for jumping in as the noob to the forum, on a heated topic. But I would like to see some attempts from writers to show a little respect to those who would disagree. As I would show to you. Just an idea, maybe try to word "your" opinions as such, not as fact,  out of respect and I will try to do the same in kind. 

If he didn't come to earth till today, I would think first he may start with a nap as he'd have a lot of work to catch up on. 

Edit to add~ Umm please and thank you with sugar on top


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## Faustling (Jan 17, 2008)

SadLuckDame said:


> Why do post as if all would agree? Lacking even a small amount of couth, hmm that some or many would not share your opinions? I'm sorry for jumping in as the noob to the forum, on a heated topic. But I would like to see some attempts from writers to show a little respect to those who would disagree. As I would show to you. Just an idea, maybe try to word "your" opinions as such, not as fact,  out of respect and I will try to do the same in kind.



You're truely new to the forum if you consider this a heated topic with people lacking in respect 

Seriously though, I don't really see anyone disrespecting anyone else in this thread. I'm pretty sure it's understood that we're talking about our own opinions and while there has been some slight Jesus-bashing (well, teasing really) I doubt Christians would take much offence.


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

"I doubt Christians would take much offence."

Oh, I'm sure they would.  They seem to be rather easily offended people as a group.

I'm not sure what SadLuckDame is talking about either.  This didn't seem like a heated topic at all...fun if anything.


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## SadLuckDame (Jan 17, 2008)

> Jesus never came to earth. He doesn't exist.


Well I'll make an attempt by using a quote, there were three that stood out as if factual. 
This is a writing forum, and I thought simply that hey maybe just maybe if I asked nicely as ever, some could toy around with words to try to have a little "couth" ( I thought that word was a nice fit to what I was hopeful for.) Do I expect it, not at all. It just couldn't hurt to ask, and possibly add something to ponder. As far as heated, well I felt after I commented it may be going that way. I am newer though, so have only seen the latest discussions, maybe I was way off, my apologies for that.


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## ieuan (Jan 17, 2008)

*Eli and Jesus*

Eli is one of the names of God. Jesus Christ is the name of the Saviour of the world; God incarnate in the flesh, the Holy one of Israel, the Messiah. The almight God absolutely Holy and perfect in all His ways. Jesus is God the son, the second person in the trinity, and yet there is one God.

Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one.

Christians take offence at the things said about Him by unbelievers because it blasphemes the name of God. They absolutely believe in a kindom after our death. And lo, all men die. And they absolutely believe that there will be a judgement and guess who by? Yes, by Jesus Christ. They believe absolutely that all who reject Christ will be punished in a place of torment, and all those that are born again of the spirit will live with Him for ever.

These are not debateable points, Christians are unequivical about these eternal matters.

There have always been skeptics, about the nature of God, and blasphemers. In the Christians book there is nothing worse than a blasphemer. Some get angry some understand that at one time we all were unbelievrs and try to make allowances. People say things like,

'Don't take it so personal when we "tease".' but to a Christian that is blasphemy. How would you like you wife or mother to be ridiculed in public, slandered, mocked? You would get angry . It's the same with a Christian, he takes it personal because Jesus is as real as this forum, it is personal because he/she worships Jesus as the one eternal God. The true Christian would give his live to defend his faith and many have over the centuries.

It's the same with the other world religions, people get upset when God is mocked. Someone posted a serious subject and some unbelievers ran to mock. This country was built on the noble asspirations of men and women who worked ceaslessly to adhere and promote Christian ideals becuase they bleived in them. The Bible is used in the law courts today, it is used in parliament, it is used for civil oaths. The assembly of our schools by law demands that children ar taught about God and encouraged to worship Him and to sing hymns of praise.

It is easy to hide behind the annominity of this forum to blaspheme the one and only true God and His son the Lord Jesus Christ.

I think we should respect the Christians point of view, this was always the case in the past. Sadly today, this point of view is lacking in society.

It is said that there are no unbleivres in a foxhole under atillary or fire in a fleet action at sea. It is also true that many unbelievers are buried with a Christian memorial and burial serviuce where prayers are said for the family asking God for comfort. It is also true that many people when dying call out to God for hope and succour. To do so and be an unbeliever is hypocrtitical and yet God commands that we do so and is in fact pleased when we do so. I would recommend Him to all.

Seek God whilst he may be found. Do it now, repent and believe.

regards

Ieuan


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm just as open with my beliefs in the real world as I am here.

And for accepting Christians' views, well, I think history has proved they would rather slaughter those who don't agree with them, so I have very little pity when they are offended.


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## lordofhats (Jan 17, 2008)

Malone said:


> And for accepting Christians' views, well, I think history has proved they would rather slaughter those who don't agree with them, so I have very little pity when they are offended.


 
So your going to group us all together based on events that occured hundreds of years ago?


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## ieuan (Jan 17, 2008)

Malone, some Christians are not sheep but goats. True christians are harmless.


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## Katastrof (Jan 17, 2008)

Malone said:


> I'm just as open with my beliefs in the real world as I am here.
> 
> And for accepting Christians' views, well, I think history has proved they would rather slaughter those who don't agree with them, so I have very little pity when they are offended.



So according to your logic, Germans still want to kill the Jews.


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## Faustling (Jan 17, 2008)

SadLuckDame said:


> Well I'll make an attempt by using a quote, there were three that stood out as if factual.



So I Christian would never say "Jesus existed and he died for everyone" but always say "My personal opinion and belief is that Jesus existed and died for everyone"? When people talk about these matters it's pretty obvious that we're talking opinions, not facts.



ieuan said:


> Christians take offence at the things said about Him by unbelievers because it blasphemes the name of God. They absolutely believe in a kindom after our death. And lo, all men die. And they absolutely believe that there will be a judgement and guess who by? Yes, by Jesus Christ. They believe absolutely that all who reject Christ will be punished in a place of torment, and all those that are born again of the spirit will live with Him for ever.



You take offence now, we'll be punished forever in Hell. I'd say Christians win this thing in the long run.



ieuan said:


> 'Don't take it so personal when we "tease".' but to a Christian that is blasphemy. How would you like you wife or mother to be ridiculed in public, slandered, mocked? You would get angry . It's the same with a Christian, he takes it personal because Jesus is as real as this forum, it is personal because he/she worships Jesus as the one eternal God. The true Christian would give his live to defend his faith and many have over the centuries.



As Christians are often quick to point out, atheism and science are also things a person believe in. Yet I haven't seen a lot of Christians avoiding ridiculing science when the chance appears. 
And don't forget, for every Christian that has died for their belief there are at least two unbelievers that have died for theirs.



ieuan said:


> It is easy to hide behind the annominity of this forum to blaspheme the one and only true God and His son the Lord Jesus Christ.



I don't know about anyone else but I don't need any anominity to "blaspheme", I've done it in person plenty of time. Christians rarely pay much respect to other beliefs so I reserve the right to blaspheme the one true God whenever I please. 
Yet, I'm often one of the less militant atheists around here. I usually stick with teasing while others attack.



ieuan said:


> I think we should respect the Christians point of view, this was always the case in the past. Sadly today, this point of view is lacking in society.



Wait... why should we respect the Christian point of view any more then any other point of view?



ieuan said:


> Seek God whilst he may be found. Do it now, repent and believe.



Been there, done that, didn't even get the friggin' t-shirt.


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## mythologicalrealities (Jan 17, 2008)

See, the problem I find with Christians is that they give all their faith and love to some dude up in the clouds and spurn those who need them in the real world.

My parents, when I was a little girl, played tapes to me as I was going to sleep, about a mean king. Apparently worms came and ate his fingers and his toes because he didn't believe in God. I grew up _terrified_ that the daydreams I had about imaginary, fantasy lands were 'evil'.

My grandmother bluntly told me that I won't make a difference in the world unless I'm christian. Then she told me I should have faith that Jesus will come and change the world so that I won't need to do anything. 

Except, of course, be blind to the _real_ reality, and the real people in it, who don't need a miracle, but merely some _kindness._

I have never met someone religious who has treated me with respect. I have had friends who spurned me for going to Mind, Body, Spirit festivals, aunties who have given me bibles for Christmas, and a christian boyfriend who tried to rape me. Plus, parents who raised me in fear and grandparents who don't want me to do anything except sit on my ass and wait for some mythological man to come and save the world.

Maybe people aren't killed in the name of the church anymore. But they are prosecuted, nevertheless, and no matter how blatantly you try to deny it, it doesn't change the fact that it's true.

---

And just for the record, look around the earth the way it is.
If hell exists we're already it. We need to get up and make a difference, not worry about some guy up in heaven and his judgement on us.


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## Seeker (Jan 17, 2008)

Faustling said:


> While I agree that Jesus hardly was the son of God or anything else in that direction I doubt that "it would be exactly the same as it is now" since he, y'know, founded an enormous religion that has effected the world since then.



Actually, this is what would intrigue me. I haven't googled the original title, but I doubt that's what it is about.

What I would want to see is a story on 'what would the world be like without the concept of Christianity laid upon Judaism.

No crusades of course. And a continued search for a messiah that never came, even in some beliefs. And when Mohammed came around - what did he do and what was different?

What were the major religions that arose/continued? How did Europe develop? Did the Roman Empire survive since Constantine wouldn't have split it due to the Christian factions?

Would the same inventions have occurred?

NOW THIS would be an interesting story.


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## Seeker (Jan 17, 2008)

Ok - checked it out. The author is writing the following:

_...hurls TV journalist Conrad Davis into another world exactly  like ours except for one detail — Jesus Christ did not come 2,000 years ago,  but today._

Ok - of course that doesn't work, but at least the author admits it. You have a world that had a Jesus 2000 years ago, but then pretend you didn't. Ok, I accept it given the author apologizes:

_there's another shortcoming you need to  be aware of as you read this novel.  To accurately portray a world in which  Christ has not yet come would be to create a society so dark and ugly that it's  doubtful any of us would recognize it, let alone relate to it. To do so would  have again defeated my purposes. So, I didn't. If you're interested in the  impact Jesus Christ has had upon our society, Kennedy and Newcombe's book, What  If Jesus Had Never Been Born, gives interesting insights on how different  our society would be today if Jesus had not come._

Personally, I'd like to read a novel based on these premises. Maybe it wouldn't be as dark as suggested - just totally different.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 17, 2008)

SadLuckDame said:


> Why do post as if all would agree? Lacking even a small amount of couth, hmm that some or many would not share your opinions? I'm sorry for jumping in as the noob to the forum, on a heated topic. But I would like to see some attempts from writers to show a little respect to those who would disagree. As I would show to you. Just an idea, maybe try to word "your" opinions as such, not as fact, out of respect and I will try to do the same in kind.


I agree with Faustling. If you want to see some real knock-down, drag-out fights, visit the poetry forums. There's a few there who become really heated. Makes me kind of glad I'm not a poet.


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## lordofhats (Jan 17, 2008)

Its hard to say what the world would be like Christianity. Christianity dominated the west for well over 1000 years before it began to lose momentum.

Rome probably would have fallen anyway. It was already heading towards falling apart by the time Christianity had come into being, though its possible Christianity sped up the process I suppose. 

I would wonder if Islam would have ever come into being without Christianity. I think it probably would have since its belief system is based on a different system derived from Jewdism. Think about it though. Without the Crusades Muslims might have actually been able to invade the west and stay there. The Crusades crippled the Muslim Caliphate for centuries to come and was the event that started the Muslim nation into its decline (The Mongols and the Tumrids helped though). 

I'd like to see America without Protestant colonists. Sadely this is where I run out of practical knowledge for apply Christianity to history.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 17, 2008)

Malone said:


> "I doubt Christians would take much offence."
> 
> Oh, I'm sure they would. They seem to be rather easily offended people as a group.
> 
> I'm not sure what SadLuckDame is talking about either. This didn't seem like a heated topic at all...fun if anything.


*SadLuckDame*, on the other hand, Malone is right too. Christians are all so narrow-minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes - simultaneously.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 17, 2008)

Katastrof said:


> So according to your logic, Germans still want to kill the Jews.


Are you omnipotent? Can you get inside others' heads? For all we know, a great many Germans may still want to kill all the Jews.


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

You really think Christians stopped persecuting people that didn't believe what they do hundreds of years ago?  I think there are some abortion clinics that would argue differently...

And as to the German killing Jew argument, it wasn't quite the Germans that wanted to kill Jews, it was the Nazi party, and yes, they still want to kill all Jews.

I honestly don't like or trust Germans anyways, but if you're going to accuse an entire nation of Mass Murder, at least get the particulars correct.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 17, 2008)

Seeker said:


> Actually, this is what would intrigue me. I haven't googled the original title, but I doubt that's what it is about.
> 
> What I would want to see is a story on 'what would the world be like without the concept of Christianity laid upon Judaism.
> 
> ...


 
What would be the most interesting story ever told is the way "things" may have evolved if the freakin' church hadn't come along and stamped out all the old pagan beliefs.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 17, 2008)

mythologicalrealities said:


> See, the problem I find with Christians is that they give all their faith and love to some dude up in the clouds and spurn those who need them in the real world.
> 
> My parents, when I was a little girl, played tapes to me as I was going to sleep, about a mean king. Apparently worms came and ate his fingers and his toes because he didn't believe in God. I grew up _terrified_ that the daydreams I had about imaginary, fantasy lands were 'evil'.
> 
> ...


persecuted


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## lordofhats (Jan 17, 2008)

I was refering to the skull bashing part Malone, which no matter what you say has essentially stopped. Find me one major branch of christianity that advocate killing people who disagree with its beliefs. The actions of an individual cannot be arbitrally applied to a group. 

Christians arn't anymore arrogant than any other group. I get tired of going somewhere, saying I'm christan, and then getting bombarded with anti-christin sentements about how I must be arrogant, or unreasonable, or like blowing up abortion clincs just as much as you must be tired of not being able to walk into walmart without some christian soliciting you with words like "Save your soul now."


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 17, 2008)

I'm from the south, so the idea of Christians being the minority is totally foreign to me.  Everywhere I go, people are thanking god for something or other, or preaching to me about bullshit I don't want to hear.
I'm pretty open about most things, but I feel like religion is close minded and judgmental enough that I have to fight fire with fire.


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## Faustling (Jan 17, 2008)

lordofhats said:


> Christians arn't anymore arrogant than any other group. I get tired of going somewhere, saying I'm christan, and then getting bombarded with anti-christin sentements about how I must be arrogant, or unreasonable, or like blowing up abortion clincs just as much as you must be tired of not being able to walk into walmart without some christian soliciting you with words like "Save your soul now."



Actually that kind of people can be pretty entertaining at times, especially if they aren't very well read or good at debating. Now that I think about it, the kind that's well read and good at debating is fun as well, although in a different way. For an atheist I'm very interested in talking to priests (I've never had the chance to talk to a rabbi or an imam though, that's a shame).


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## lordofhats (Jan 17, 2008)

We must be in two very different parts of the south then. The only signs of christianity I've ever seen in public are Jesus bill boards (Some of them are pretty funny actually Buddy Jesus - Thanks for the Info on Flickr - Photo Sharing!. Come on you know you want to laugh at it.) and soliciters in front of stores and other business establishments.

Not all Christians are close minded and judgemental (I'm judgemental but not about religion). I know many people who will resent being stereotypically labeled one cause alot of the complaints I hear about Christians I've almost never encountered. Except for the solicity thing which even I find annoying.

"Sir save your soul now!"
"Im already christian I don't want your little pocket Bible I got a real one."
"Take it anyway sir!"
"I don't want it I told I'm already christian."
"Take it anyway sir!"
"I'll get you on the way out."
"Ok sir!"


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## mythologicalrealities (Jan 17, 2008)

ok, persecuted. My ideas are what matter, not my spelling


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## The Backward OX (Jan 17, 2008)

That is not a spelling mistake. It is the use of an incorrect word, which can mislead readers.

*Can do better. 6/10


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## mythologicalrealities (Jan 17, 2008)

FFS.

You knew what I meant. 
Everyone with half a brain did.

So what if I get words confused?

You know a lot of the most brilliant people in the world were dyslexic?


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 18, 2008)

What part of the south do you live in?  I know in Ga, Al, NC, SC, TN, etc., it's pretty "jesusey."


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## thefallingsky&therain (Jan 18, 2008)

*wow.*
*why does everyone in here think EVERYTHING has to be a debate? i didn't ask to be bashed or for Jesus to be bashed. i was just reccomending a good book. after all, this IS a thread for BOOKS. and the title for this-the what if Christ didn't come to earth until today-that's a part of the book. the book itself is called Eli. someome PLEASE lock this thread. it's full of drama and immaturity. nice, guys..*


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## The Backward OX (Jan 18, 2008)

mythologicalrealities said:


> FFS.
> 
> You knew what I meant.
> Everyone with half a brain did.
> ...


Yeah, everyone with half a brain, even kiwis, knew what you meant – *after first* skating on another nineteen words to the end of the sentence, realising something didn’t make sense, going back to see what the problem was, finally working it out, muttering about careless writers, then eventually picking up the thread of the story again in the next sentence.

Most serious readers don’t like having to do a writer’s work for them.

Readers don’t like losing the momentum of the story.

Readers particularly expect that writers show a somewhat higher degree of word skills than they themselves possess.

Or if not higher, at least equivalent. And when they, the writers, are found wanting in this regard the readers generally abandon them in favour of those who don’t commit such blunders.

Bottom line – errant writer falls out of favour, books fail to sell, writer finishes up on scrap-heap. 

“Mighty oaks from little acorns grow”



Btw, a dyslexic would have probably spelled it “preseucted” or “preesutced” or “dersucteep” or something like that.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 18, 2008)

thefallingsky&therain said:


> *wow.*
> *why does everyone in here think EVERYTHING has to be a debate? i didn't ask to be bashed or for Jesus to be bashed. i was just reccomending a good book. after all, this IS a thread for BOOKS. and the title for this-the what if Christ didn't come to earth until today-that's a part of the book. the book itself is called Eli. someome PLEASE lock this thread. it's full of drama and immaturity. nice, guys..*


Hahahaha. Welcome to WritingForums.com


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## mythologicalrealities (Jan 18, 2008)

> Most serious readers don’t like having to do a writer’s work for them.
> 
> Readers don’t like losing the momentum of the story.
> 
> Readers particularly expect that writers show a somewhat higher degree of word skills than they themselves possess.


 
Yes, because a post about religious differences that I typed up in about 5 minutes, and something I actually work on WRITING are similar things.

Oh, and btw, I believe that _technically, _serious readers do like doing a writers work for them. A good writer leaves things to the imagination.

Maybe you should work on your wording, yourself.

And it's pathetic that you counted how many words there were until the end of the sentence. And most "serious readers" do actually read sentences, they don't critically look over every single word.

Stories mainly focus on the storyline. People who read stories like to do this as well.


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## thefallingsky&therain (Jan 18, 2008)

*might i add, so many of you are so blind-folded. i do feel bad for you.*


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## thefallingsky&therain (Jan 18, 2008)

The Backward OX said:


> Hahahaha. Welcome to WritingForums.com


=D>your funny. clever one.

there is a place in this forum made just for debate. why don't you check it out, kid?


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## Matt3483 (Jan 18, 2008)

mythologicalrealities said:


> Yes, because a post about religious differences that I typed up in about 5 minutes, and something I actually work on WRITING are similar things.
> 
> Oh, and btw, I believe that _technically, _serious readers do like doing a writers work for them. A good writer leaves things to the imagination.
> 
> ...



You used the word incorrectly. Get over it.


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## mythologicalrealities (Jan 18, 2008)

> You used the word incorrectly. Get over it.


 
Exactly. It's no big deal. That was my point in the first place...


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## The Backward OX (Jan 18, 2008)

Matt

Give up now mate. The poster eats roots shoots and leaves, and more particularly is female and so will always have the last word.


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## Truth-Teller (Jan 18, 2008)

Christians are Nazis of the spiritual world.

They will kill all unbelievers on the Judgement Day.


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## Matt3483 (Jan 18, 2008)

*Edit*: On second thought, and after reading Ox's post, I withdraw my comments and sagaciously wash my hands of this thread.


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## Mike C (Jan 18, 2008)

thefallingsky&therain said:


> *wow.*
> *why does everyone in here think EVERYTHING has to be a debate? i didn't ask to be bashed or for Jesus to be bashed. i was just reccomending a good book. after all, this IS a thread for BOOKS. and the title for this-the what if Christ didn't come to earth until today-that's a part of the book. the book itself is called Eli. someome PLEASE lock this thread. it's full of drama and immaturity. nice, guys..*



Lock the thread because you don't like how it's turned out? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

This thread turned into a debate because you started it with a question, therefore begging an answer. This thread is what you made it.

For future reference, if you want to recommend a book, tell us why. What did you like about it, why should we read it, that kind of stuff. You told us nothing.



> A fiery car crash hurls TV journalist Conrad Davis into another world exactly like ours except for one detail — Jesus Christ did not come 2,000 years ago, but today.
> 
> Starting with angels heralding a birth in the back of a motel laundry room, the skeptical Davis watches the gospel unfold in today's society as a Messiah in T-shirt and blue jeans heals, raises people from the dead, and speaks such startling truths that he captures the heart of a nation.
> 
> ...



That tells us more. I had to google it to find out what you left out. Still don't know _why_ you liked it though. Is it well written? Well plotted? Do you like it because it's evangelical tone chimes with your own beliefs? Or because it challenges them? Why?


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## Foxee (Jan 18, 2008)

This subject was guaranteed (at least as of the title) to draw fire. Even so, I'm disappointed that the level of discourse is so low.

Please discuss the book. I weary of hackneyed attacks on religion simply because someone brings up the word 'Jesus'. A civil discourse is possible, please attempt it.


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## Non Serviam (Jan 18, 2008)

Truth-Teller said:


> Christians are Nazis of the spiritual world.
> 
> They will kill all unbelievers on the Judgement Day.


 
You, sunshine, are right out of order.


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## Katastrof (Jan 18, 2008)

Malone said:


> You really think Christians stopped persecuting people that didn't believe what they do hundreds of years ago?  I think there are some abortion clinics that would argue differently...
> 
> And as to the German killing Jew argument, it wasn't quite the Germans that wanted to kill Jews, it was the Nazi party, and yes, they still want to kill all Jews.
> 
> I honestly don't like or trust Germans anyways, but if you're going to accuse an entire nation of Mass Murder, at least get the particulars correct.



Ha! My point exactly. How can you judge a single country or religion on what a certain group did in the past? The Germans, Christians, Muslims, the Soviets all have killed millions of people for different purposes but we don't label them as genocide states today, now do we? 

And it's also stupid to think that religious organizations are the best at killing non-believers. How about the Nazis killing Jews, homosexuals, and Gepsys? I think that death toll was 11 million. The Soviet Union killed almost 7 million people in the Great Purge and the Holodomor during the 1930s and they were an atheist society that persecuted religions. The common denominator here isn't belief systems folks, its people. People kill people, its human nature. Sadly humans are the only species on the planet that do this (_killing in war and genocide I mean_).



			
				Backwards OX said:
			
		

> Are you omnipotent? Can you get inside others' heads? For all we know, a great many Germans may still want to kill all the Jews.



I think we can safely assume that since we haven't had Holocaust number 2 yet, that the vast majority of Germans do not want to kill Jewish citizens.  Meh, they might still hate them but that is a whole different different story and is still probably not the case. Generalizations of groups of people are usually wrong in general.


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## ieuan (Jan 19, 2008)

Truth Teller said,

[Christians are Nazis of the spiritual world.

They will kill all unbelievers on the Judgement Day.]

You'd better believe it dude, your sorry ass will fry man, you will scream until you toncils fall out and then puke all over them. Your lips will burn off, your teeth will fall out your ting-a-ling will shrivel up your eeys will melt in the sockets. It will be gross man and all you will hear is the sound of miullions like you all moaning and groaning with no peace and no hope. And all you will see is the beauty of Christ a millian billion eons away and you will be in deep shit man, and if you complain it will get worse and the rest of them will turn on you. And you will cry and sob and feel stupid that you never knew.

You sorry spectre of a human being.


regards

ieuan
p.s. read 'The Book of Revelation' man.

p.p.s. It's the last book in the Bible.


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## Dr. Malone (Jan 19, 2008)

Revelation was written while John was living in a cave and consuming large amounts of hallucigens.  Nero exiled him, so 666 is a thinly veiled reference to Nero, not the devil.  It's all just some guy tripping his ass off.  Yet you've decided to base your life on it...


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## The Backward OX (Jan 19, 2008)

ieuan said:


> Truth Teller said,
> 
> [Christians are Nazis of the spiritual world.
> 
> ...


*Give a Christian an inch and he'll take a mile. F*ck me, these are the types that are supposed to turn the other cheek, love thy neighbour and all the rest of that crap. *


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## Foxee (Jan 19, 2008)

Okay, this is not a thread of whether Christians are like Nazis and is getting more offensive, not less. Closed.


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