# How can I make my main character more 'flawed'?



## ironpony (Jul 30, 2015)

In my story, a serial rapist/killer is going around committing his crimes and the MC, a police detective, is out to figure out who he is and stop him.  The villain is doing it because of how he was treated as inferior by society while growing up because he was autistic, which lead to bullying, unable to make friends, and things like that.

I was told by readers though, that my MC is a very generic cop, you see all the time though, and he has no psychological or moral flaws to make him stand out, for the first half.  It's not until after the first half that tragedy strikes and he becomes morally corrupted.  But I was told I need flaws for him for the first half, or some sort of compelling backstory to keep him interesting and root-able.

What if I made him autistic as well, so he can relate to the villain?  Just a thought, but what do you think?


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## AtleanWordsmith (Jul 30, 2015)

I suggest checking this out if you want to weigh flaws: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CharacterFlawIndex

Just don't fall into the trap of substituting flaws for actual character.


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## ironpony (Jul 30, 2015)

Okay thanks.  I should probably pick a flaw that is connected to the theme of the villain though, instead of just a random flaw that has nothing to do with the same theme, is that right?


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## Foxee (Jul 30, 2015)

What about if the cop was once a bully who ended up seeing the error of his ways and becoming a cop more or less to make up for it?

If it helps, try to imagine your cop character is a real guy and you're interviewing someone who's known him all his life, maybe his brother or best friend. If they loosen up and start to really enjoy telling stories, flaws will come out. Maybe he's a terrible driver, maybe he can never shave that tricky part under his nose quite right, maybe he is horrible at poker, maybe he's scared of heights and doesn't want anyone to know. 

Sometimes just treating your character like they're someone you can talk to or hear about can do a lot to show you the balance of good traits and flaws.


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## EmmaSohan (Jul 30, 2015)

Finding a good flaw isn't easy. I don't see how autism would work -- I can't imagine being a policeman being autistic. (If wrong, please ignore.)

You see to have the particular problem that your MC becomes morally corrupt. So what flaw goes with that? Tough. Maybe super-moralistic? Compulsive about things being right and upset when anyone does anything that doesn't follow the rules?

Good luck on your search! Finding a good flaw can be fun too.


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## Bishop (Jul 30, 2015)

Two autistic characters will quickly look like it's very pointed in a certain direction. I would avoid that.

The best character flaws are the ones you see in real people. Deadbeat dads, overbearing mothers, drug addicts, rage-addicts, lack of empathy, compulsion to eat toe nails... to make your people real, they must have flaws because no one is perfect and very rarely would someone be "generic". The worst thing that a person could say about one of my main characters would be that they lack personality--I strive very hard to avoid that out of personal fear. 

Don't forget, though, that people need talents to offset the flaws. In my current book, I have a character who is a genius with computers and explosives, but he's an impotent drunk with a cheating wife. His best friends are a dim-witted thief with a natural talent for combat and stealth, and a woman who finally found the love of her life, but can't tell her anything about herself out of fear (she's also a gambling addict! Hey, they say write what you know  ). The point is that people can be exceptional and flawed, or just exceptionally flawed. People are complex. They have hobbies and addictions, fetishes and fears. If your character doesn't make a mistake, doesn't intentionally take the wrong path sometimes, and doesn't have risk in their story? It's not worth reading. A cop following up a lead because "it's his job" works for act 1, but when it begins to get dangerous, he needs more motivation than a paycheck. I need to see that in your story before I believe it.


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## ironpony (Jul 30, 2015)

Okay thanks.  If doing it cause it's his job, is good enough for act 1 though, then perhaps act 1 is good where it is, cause it's not until act 2 that he starts to dig deeper than he has to cause he is curious, then halfway through act 2 tragedy strikes and he comes morally corrupted and vengeful after.

As far as an autistic person being able to become a cop, I think it could happen theoretically as long as they are high functioning enough to pass the exams, and get the job.  I don't think there is a police rule that disqualifies a person if they have the condition as long as they pass the tests, but I can ask a cop I know about that.  Would that be legally considered 'discrimination' though in a sense?

When you say two autistic characters will quickly look like it's pointed in a certain direction, what do you mean by that exactly?  What about how for example in the Hannibal Lecter books, he is a serial killer who is used by police to catch serial killers.  Can I have an autistic character who grew up bullied, be relate-able to the villain, and therefore knows how the villain thinks in order to catch him?  Similar concept of it takes one to one, sort of, if that makes sense?


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## JustRob (Jul 31, 2015)

EmmaSohan said:


> You see to have the particular problem that your MC becomes morally corrupt. So what flaw goes with that? Tough. Maybe super-moralistic? Compulsive about things being right and upset when anyone does anything that doesn't follow the rules?



A spot on suggestion I'd say. In my novel (Here we go again!) I have a minor character who is a highly moral police detective. In fact he was chosen to deal with a sensitive situation in the story for that very reason, that he could be relied upon to do the "right" thing. He deals with the immediate task given to him but leaves the story when he realises that the moral dilemma confronting the people in it is not one that he with his strict attitude could ever resolve. In fact he realises that even in the short time that he has been involved with them he has reached the point where he can't even judge his own actions by his own standards any more. This is the sort of breaking point that might turn your character, so yes, make him too straight-laced. Perfection is itself a flaw. I myself used to be a perfectionist but I'm much better than that now.


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## Bishop (Jul 31, 2015)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  If doing it cause it's his job, is good enough for act 1 though, then perhaps act 1 is good where it is, cause it's not until act 2 that he starts to dig deeper than he has to cause he is curious, then halfway through act 2 tragedy strikes and he comes morally corrupted and vengeful after.



Curiosity is a weak motivation, but depending on the events, "his job" can carry through. Act lines are not in stone, and I only meant it as an example. Risk v. reward is what you need to consider, when does it become too dangerous or risks something dear to him to the point where it outweighs the compensation and duty that his department gives him? At what point does he say, "I'd rather quit than continue down this path," but continue anyway because of reason X?



ironpony said:


> As far as an autistic person being able to become a cop, I think it could happen theoretically as long as they are high functioning enough to pass the exams, and get the job.  I don't think there is a police rule that disqualifies a person if they have the condition as long as they pass the tests, but I can ask a cop I know about that.  Would that be legally considered 'discrimination' though in a sense?



I'm no expert, but I think there's more to the cop screening process than the tests. For instance, a one-legged person could theoretically pass the tests, even physical exams with the right prosthetic, but it's still a major impact to his duties. It's not discrimination if they are physically or mentally unable to perform the duties of the job. So it's possible if someone high functioning enough got through it all that they'd be able to do the job. But where it strains me is that if he's THAT high functioning, would he be bullied? If you could reasonably perform the duties of a detective, I have a hard time believing it would really be noticeable.



ironpony said:


> When you say two autistic characters will quickly look like it's pointed in a certain direction, what do you mean by that exactly?  What about how for example in the Hannibal Lecter books, he is a serial killer who is used by police to catch serial killers.  Can I have an autistic character who grew up bullied, be relate-able to the villain, and therefore knows how the villain thinks in order to catch him?  Similar concept of it takes one to one, sort of, if that makes sense?



A serial killer is very different than an autistic. There are no support groups for serial killers, no serial killer culture, no debates over the way to work with, house, raise, or treat serial killers. There is a very active autistic culture, and questions of rights and treatment come up on a near daily basis. This is one of those touchy subjects that people will get worked up over, especially those who live with autism, who have autistic children, and so forth. Having two characters who are locked in dramatic conflict both be autistic will be interpreted a certain way. Some people will be offended, some people will think that you're making a statement (even if you're not) and it goes from being a potential character trait to being the entire purpose of the story, again whether you want it to or not.

I'd be wary of even making a villain autistic. Vilification of a group is a thin rope to walk, and while I would never advocate for censorship, I would be careful how you treat it, simply because it's a touchy subject. For instance, if autism is his fatal flaw, people will see that as you criticising it. Is that what you're doing? Probably not, but people are people and they will skew it that way.


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## ironpony (Jul 31, 2015)

Bishop said:


> Curiosity is a weak motivation, but depending on the events, "his job" can carry through. Act lines are not in stone, and I only meant it as an example. Risk v. reward is what you need to consider, when does it become too dangerous or risks something dear to him to the point where it outweighs the compensation and duty that his department gives him? At what point does he say, "I'd rather quit than continue down this path," but continue anyway because of reason X?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay thanks.  Well in real life, officers are willing to get into shootouts, in performance of their duties, so I figure if they are willing to risk their lives to catch criminals, then that is enough motivation for my MC since his motivations are similar to that of a lot of real life officers.  I think that would be enough to carry him through for the first half, and then the second half is when it gets personal for him.  He can still be bullied though, even though he is high functioning cause I did some research and know an autistic man, which is how I came up with the idea for the MC.  The person I know is not a cop, but he got real smart later, compared to when he was bullied as a kid.  The autism causes late development, if I can use that.

As for the villain, I know it's a touchy subject.  It's his being bullied and treated as inferior, career wise, which causes him to become a serial killer, but he is smart enough to know how to cover his tracks up until the end.  Stories before have used touchy subjects when it comes to serial killers having certain conditions though.  Silence of the Lambs for example.  I don't want to offend, but rather create a flaw with depth, with something to say, theme wise.  I don't mean to criticize it by making it his fatal flaw, but rather making it a big problem for him, for the reader to empathize with.


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## Bishop (Jul 31, 2015)

ironpony said:


> As for the villain, I know it's a touchy subject.  It's his being bullied and treated as inferior, career wise, which causes him to become a serial killer, but he is smart enough to know how to cover his tracks up until the end.  Stories before have used touchy subjects when it comes to serial killers having certain conditions though.  Silence of the Lambs for example.  I don't want to offend, but rather create a flaw with depth, with something to say, theme wise.  I don't mean to criticize it by making it his fatal flaw, but rather making it a big problem for him, for the reader to empathize with.



Your only issue there is that bullying has no evidence that it causes murderous tenancies; much as Hollywood might want us to think the opposite. The psychology of serial killers is fascinating, but it actually is widely unknown. The Minnesota Twins study came to a conclusion that psychopathy is inherited to some degree, and that upbringing can account for another major part of it. A further study at the University of Madison, WI, claims that brain defects or abnormalities in the amygdala are to cause for it.

Further studies do say that childhood abuse/neglect can be augmenting factors to it, so it's plausible and believable within the scope of a story, but it's something to be very careful with, specifically because of the autism angle. It could easily be twisted by a reader to think that one is saying autism has a correlation to murder, which is simply not true. Let me be clear, though, I'm not saying "don't do it", I'm saying to bear this in mind as you go forward.


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## Foxee (Jul 31, 2015)

Autistic people don't see the world or react to it the same way as non-autistic, plus some are more severely autistic, some less. It occurred to me, reading Kevin's post, that someone with a certain level of autism might not even really understand the bullying the same way someone else might. If you want to go forward, I would suggest researching REALLY well.


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## ironpony (Jul 31, 2015)

Foxee said:


> Autistic people don't see the world or react to it the same way as non-autistic, plus some are more severely autistic, some less. It occurred to me, reading Kevin's post, that someone with a certain level of autism might not even really understand the bullying the same way someone else might. If you want to go forward, I would suggest researching REALLY well.



Okay thanks.  I talked to two autistic people though, and I believe they could become vengeful based on how they were treated, if they chose get revenge.  One of them said he felt like it many times, he just chose not to, in the interest of not going to prison.  So I buy my own premise based on what he says about himself.  What do you think?


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## Boofy (Jul 31, 2015)

The autistic spectrum is HUGE. I would probably be more inclined to do what Foxee suggested, were I to consider writing a character with the diagnosis. It can present so differently in so many people. Perhaps talk to somebody in the field? I know there are people on Reddit in the psychiatric profession that might be willing to assist you in your research. It's always, always best to be thorough when tackling sensitive subjects. Good luck to you! :3


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## Bishop (Aug 1, 2015)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  I talked to two autistic people though, and I believe they could become vengeful based on how they were treated, if they chose get revenge.  One of them said he felt like it many times, he just chose not to, in the interest of not going to prison.  So I buy my own premise based on what he says about himself.  What do you think?



I think everyone in any situation of adversity has the same arc that your friend did: They fantasize about revenge, but know better than to actually act violently to get it. What he said about himself is opposite your premise: He opted NOT to be violent, with a conscious decision.

Everyone has the ability/capacity to do horrible, horrible things. It's part of what separates us from animals: our moral sensibility and free will. But very, very few people take it to psychopathic extremes. I would recommend studying that trait, rather than autism, to understand where it comes from to make a more realistic character.


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## ironpony (Aug 1, 2015)

Bishop said:


> I think everyone in any situation of adversity has the same arc that your friend did: They fantasize about revenge, but know better than to actually act violently to get it. What he said about himself is opposite your premise: He opted NOT to be violent, with a conscious decision.
> 
> Everyone has the ability/capacity to do horrible, horrible things. It's part of what separates us from animals: our moral sensibility and free will. But very, very few people take it to psychopathic extremes. I would recommend studying that trait, rather than autism, to understand where it comes from to make a more realistic character.



Okay thanks.  But people choose to do bad things all the time in fiction and in real life.  Especially serial killer villains.  Is a person who is bullied because he is autistic choosing to seek revenge actually that unrealistic, especially when you compare it to real life vengeful mass murderers?


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## patskywriter (Aug 1, 2015)

Sometimes "perfectly good" people enter flawed systems—this can be applied to cops, teachers, city council members, doctors, and even clergy. Some, not wanting to rock the boat, choose to conform to the culture, while others back down and try something else. Others work to change the culture, which is probably the least likely to occur. Still others learn to apply tweaks here and there and learn to adapt just enough to keep their jobs while not (in their minds anyway) totally conforming. There's plenty of room in there to create characters with interesting flaws and outlooks. Just go for it and see what you come up with.  :calm:


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## JustRob (Aug 1, 2015)

How does a bullied child react in later life? Our neighbour's son reacted by doing the Karate Kid thing and becoming a martial arts champion. He then went on to teach others self-defence. You could say that he was exacting revenge on bullying the long way round, but in the right way.

I also know of an autistic boy who was recently harassed, if not actually bullied, by another child and was upset because he just didn't understand it and that was what frightened him. It is unlikely that he could contemplate revenge if he couldn't make sense of the original act. On the other hand when his mother took him out shopping and treated him to a meal in MacDonald's he asked whether he was being punished as he'd have rather been at home playing games on his computer. Autism is a tricky thing to handle.

I have an autistic boy in my novel and am very careful how I use even this minor character. I needed someone with an incredible memory and that is a trait often associated with autism, so the choice was justified.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Aug 1, 2015)

You also may want to do research on the psychology of serial killers. It might be easier to go into the backgrounds of famous killers such as Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy (he especially fascinates me psychology wise), the BTK killer, etc. I'm not sure how large a role autism has in serial killers in general. Some were certainly bullied without a doubt, but someone such as Bundy seemed to live a charmed life. They come in all kinds. Anyway, I would try to get into their minds a little to see how you would mold your character.


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## ironpony (Aug 1, 2015)

Okay thanks.  I tried asking psychologists for their opinions on whether or not this is realistically possible, but they didn't really answer and emailed me back saying nobody wants to see a movie or read a screenplay where that happens, and they seemed like I was being exploitative.  It just seems strange since stories have dealt with villains with mental problems before.  In movies like Taxi Driver and first blood for example, we have characters that go on violent rampages because they are suffering from PTSD, but that doesn't mean that the movies themselves are attacks on PTSD.  In the Silence of the Lambs, there is a serial killer going around killing, because he was refused gender re-assignment, but that doesn't make the movie a personal attack on people not liking their gender.

What is the distinction that makes my character's mental problem, "forbidden", compared to other examples, and who how do you decide where the line is drawn?


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## Boofy (Aug 1, 2015)

Oooo, now you're asking! Undoubtedly, if you pursue a subject like this one, you are going to receive negative feedback... though I am surprised you received those kinds of comments from people in that profession. You can only do your best to portray your character accurately. However, no matter the accuracy, be prepared for feelings to be hurt. Personally, I think it could be a really interesting insight into the mind of an autistic man, but that isn't to say that you aren't treading a very thin line. Some of the best stories are those that tread the line. Balance is the most essential thing here. Research, research, research and you can stand behind your work with confidence, rather than be dragged under by a wave of negative reactions. 

Don't let the comments you have received from those you have already asked dissuade you from pursuing the opinions of others in that profession either. Their expertise will probably be the best resource you could tap.


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## Foxee (Aug 1, 2015)

ironpony said:


> What is the distinction that makes my character's mental problem, "forbidden", compared to other examples, and who how do you decide where the line is drawn?


Maybe at a guess because autism is something more commonly beginning in childhood while PTSD is associated with adults? You're just going to have to get around a huge number of people who are very protective of autistic people. Parents, teachers, etc.

If you itch to write this so bad, just write it. Just be very aware that you are going to have a lot of people who probably won't like your book.


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## ironpony (Aug 1, 2015)

Okay thanks.  My goal is to write a compelling story that grabs the reader and sometimes I feel I have to be get into controversial subject matter to do that.  I mean a lot of people who write safe material, sometimes also get a negative reaction from readers, with the reader saying, 'this writer doesn't push the envelope enough', or doesn't go for anything risky.

So I feel that either way, it's probably a double edged sword.  My goal is to write something that has a good chance of making money though, but making money through being a compelling read.  There are also other characters though to balance out the views I think.  I offered to make the MC autistic as well to create a balance and have a good side of the fence.  Should I?


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## ShadowEyes (Aug 1, 2015)

I would say that autism isn't a flaw, but an impulse that can be molded into a trait. It's a trait as much as it defines character action. As it exists, it's only a shape to be colored in just as a piano key only takes purpose when it's played. What's interesting is how that limitation is used to conflict internally and externally. Which could be achieved with any type of action or limiting factor, such as loyalty, arrogance, or timidity (for example).


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## bazz cargo (Aug 1, 2015)

Hi Ironpony,
just to add a bit of context. In the UK there is a television, gardening programme series that features autistic children and young adults. Very enlightening. The adult gardener has a child who he took for a test at a very young age and was surprised to find that he himself was on the scale. 

Also, consider the mind. I work with someone who is showing early signs of dementia. A life of smoking, drinking, eating crap food and not exercising properly has caught up with him. He is no longer capable of seeing the world from a reasonable point of view and is getting angrier and more violent as the weeks go by. Not all dementia leads to violence, but a surprising amount of times it does. 

Certain drugs, even legal ones can also alter the brain chemistry causing violent behaviour. Think alcohol.

I don't know if these thoughts help, or if they will spin off further ideas, but I wish you well.
BC


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## Newman (Aug 4, 2015)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  I should probably pick a flaw that is connected to the theme of the villain though, instead of just a random flaw that has nothing to do with the same theme, is that right?



Right.


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## The Green Shield (Aug 5, 2015)

Usually when I think of flaws, I think of what self-destructive tendencies will hinder the protagonist toward achieving his/her goals. Something like a doctor who is squeamish at the sight of blood and broken bones can be considered a flaw, but said doctor having trouble shaving a spot under his nose? Eh, not so much.


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## David Gordon Burke (Aug 6, 2015)

Going to jump in here.  I had researched a story that involved autism so I know a little bit about it.

No way I am believing an autistic criminal mastermind or an autistic cop.  How much research or how much do you know about autisim?

David Gordon Burke


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## curtis (Aug 6, 2015)

If you want to create flawed characters, I recommend that you read The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It contains a wide variety of illnesses. There is everything from minor fetishes to severe paranoid schizophrenia.


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## ironpony (Aug 7, 2015)

David Gordon Burke said:


> Going to jump in here.  I had researched a story that involved autism so I know a little bit about it.
> 
> No way I am believing an autistic criminal mastermind or an autistic cop.  How much research or how much do you know about autisim?
> 
> David Gordon Burke



Okay thanks.  The reason why I chose autism is because I myself am autistic.  I grew up with the same problems, so it's where I got the idea from.  Not that I anything like a serial killer or have done anything like that, but I have been made angry by the bullying and mistreatment.  The worst I can to was throwing the first punch a couple of times, but I can buy that a person would take it a step further, then another step, etc.

The reason why I chose autism, is because since my and my brother are autistic, I would be dealing with a social/living problem that I am familiar with.  I would be writing what I know.  But if autism is not believable for audiences, I could choose another condition if I must.  But then I would be writing of a condition I have no experience in and the material may not be as well of a take on it.  What do you think?


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## Miranda de la Costa (Aug 16, 2015)

Foxee said:


> What about if the cop was once a bully who ended up seeing the error of his ways and becoming a cop more or less to make up for it?



Or how about the idea that the cop was the villain's bully and will find himself slipping into his old ways with the villain and must try to fight it now that he is an enforcer of the law?


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