# Manic Writing



## ziodice (Sep 12, 2014)

I like to consider myself a bit of a self-diagnostician. Wielding the power of the internet, I can cover myself with false, unofficial diagnoses to my hearts content (the truth of which are easily debatable and irrelevant to the official diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome.) At the moment, I happen to be liking bi-polar disorder, given my tendency to bounce back and forth with little to no trigger between an up (manic) and down (depressed) state with no midpoint. You're probably wondering by now "the hell has that got to do with writing?" Well! I...can only write well when I'm "up." Literally. Anything I try to write when I'm "down" is forced and horrible, which is annoying as all hell given that it's...well, sort of my passion, and "up" comes maybe a few days a month.Anyone else suffer from a similar issue?


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## shadowwalker (Sep 13, 2014)

Let's set aside for the moment the too light-hearted self-diagnosis bit and move to the actual writing question (and yes, that's a hint).

IMO, what you're describing is akin to (if not precisely) the idea of waiting until you're "in the mood", "inspired", or "motivated" to write. If you're doing this only as a hobby, no problem. If you intend to eventually publish something, and then continue to publish, you need to get over this. Most published writers that I've had contact with have a schedule of some sort and they stick to it. They write whether they feel like it or not - they just have to sweat a little more when they don't feel like writing. Then again, most of these writers don't need to find motivation to write - they can't wait to get to it, even when they're facing a difficult scene.

So - and again this is only my opinion - the way to get over this is to discipline yourself to write. Don't tell yourself "I can't write [well] unless XXX". It's self-defeating (I would be willing to bet that the stuff you write when "up" really isn't any better than the stuff you write when "down" - how you view it is biased by the "up" and "down" itself). Set a time to write and sit butt in chair and write. Develop that habit and eventually mood won't have anything to do with it.


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## Silver (Sep 13, 2014)

I think shadowwalker has said it very well. Rather than diagnose yourself with a mood disorder, examine whether you would like to increase your discipline. Even if you did have bipolar disorder, this would by no means be the 'be all and end all' to when you "can" write. It feels a lot better to write when you're motivated, of course, but the professional writer has routine a lot more often than inspiration.

In my (diagnosed bipolar) experience, I'm much less likely to write when I am actually manic because (internet gods forgive me this all caps transgression) I AM SO HAPPY AND I CAN DO ALL OF THE THINGS RIGHT NOW. I tend to take out all of my current projects and work very little (if at all because of all the other shiny, distracting things) on any of it. There's also the matter of needing to keep myself away from things that involve spending money, driving, doing anything that has a strong potential for bodily harm, so on and so forth...

On the politically correct side of things, saying 'you're liking bipolar' is bound to get people's backs up. As perhaps you would feel if someone 'rather liked' Aspergers (?).


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## Sc0pe (Sep 13, 2014)

I know someone who has bipolar and lets just say when they are manic focusing on one thing for longer than half an hour is losing battle. But as said about being inspired to wright is all well and good but like most great tasks if you want to make progress on it you have to put in the time, weather that be when you want to or not will not really change the practical  experience you get.


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## Jeko (Sep 13, 2014)

> I...can only write well when I'm "up." Literally.



No, not literally. You can write rubbish if you allow yourself to write rubbish. I write rubbish all the time. I call it 'sketching the story'. Once the sketch is done, I re-do the draft with more attention to what I'm doing and why. But until then, I don't care if it's rubbish or not. The way I write 'well' is over weeks and months of development. Drafting 'well' just means that I get the story out; the actual process is much, much bigger than just the initial mind-to-page routine.

The truth is that while you think you're writing 'well' when you feel 'up', your writing is probably not much better than the 'rubbish' stuff you write when you're not. The feeling of inspiration just makes you more attached to and confident about things. It's either that or you're 'good' writing is of publishable standard. But with the amount of discipline you have, it's almost definitely not.

Would you get a job anywhere with the attitude you have? 'Oh, I can only work a few days a month when I'm feeling up to it.' No; with writing, you can work as much as you want to. The problem, from what you've said, is that you don't want to work, so you only write when it doesn't feel like work. 

Self-diagnosis like this is just an excuse for not writing. A lot of learning writers, for what I've seen, prefer to think about themselves than their work. Unless you're writing an autobiography, that isn't going to help. If you spent less time thinking about yourself and more time thinking about your characters and stories, you'd get more written.

If this is just a hobby, then it's not an issue. But since you're calling it an 'issue', you probably want to get published someday. So if you want that to happen, you have to start treating this like a job. Writing isn't a paid holiday.


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## ziodice (Sep 13, 2014)

Silver said:


> On the politically correct side of things, saying 'you're liking bipolar' is bound to get people's backs up. As perhaps you would feel if someone 'rather liked' Aspergers (?).



By "Rather liked" I simply mean I think it would fit and explains a lot - not that I'd view it as a good thing. On another note, I also just posted on my blog about the dangers of self-diagnostics, it's a habit of mine but it's not something I ever think is an actual _good idea_.

When it comes to what most of what you're all saying, though, even if you're right, _how am I going to just sit there writing what I can easily perceive to be _garbage _for a month on the hope that it may actually be good when I come out of the "down" mood?_ How am I supposed to differentiate between "this garbage because it's garbage" and "this is garbage because I think it's garbage because I'm in a bad mood?"


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## Bishop (Sep 13, 2014)

You can write any time you want. It might suffer in quality when you're 'down' compared to when you're 'up', but two things fix that issue:

1) Practice. Write when you're not in the mood enough and the discipline and habit will form and you'll overcome the mood doldrums. 

2) Editing. Just fix the mistakes later, you're going to be doing this anyway. Might as well finish the story fast and edit a little more slowly.


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

As somebody whose life has been practically ruined by schizoaffective disorder, I just have to facepalm at this whole OP. 

Bipolar doesn't work like that. 

No. 

Just... 

No.


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

I happen to write when I'm in any state. Psychotic, depressed, mixed, manic, hypomanic. But when I'm manic, the writing is, well, creeeeeeeepy. Like, I wrote a poem comparing myself to Caligula, and how I was going to declare war on swimming pools because they scared me. 

Was it necessarily cruddy writing? No, because it showed my subconscious mind's workings, and my therapist would at least like to read it, methinks. 

But was it as good as, say, some of the poetry I wrote when in a more stable state? I don't think so. Because that poem about Caligula was literally all. over. the. place. Omg.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 13, 2014)

I write differently depending on my mood. If I am depressed then so is my writing. When I'm in a lighter mood you don't know what I might come up with. I do feel more creative when I'm happier I think. Most of the posters I agree with however. You should write anytime. Also what you think is crap others might think otherwise. That's why it is good to have people looking at your work once in a while.


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## ziodice (Sep 13, 2014)

Dawson said:


> As somebody whose life has been practically ruined by schizoaffective disorder, I just have to facepalm at this whole OP.
> 
> Bipolar doesn't work like that.
> 
> ...



As someone who's best friend was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder multiple times and shows nigh-identical symptoms to I, I beg to differ.

EDIT: I'm also going to point out that a schizoaffective disorder, while they often share many symptoms with bi-polar disorder, is...a very different thing.

Secondary EDIT: And also that it's a bit agitating when people assume any given diagnosis of a disorder must work identically to someone else's diagnosis of a disorder, etc. In fact "hypomania" is a term for people who's manic state is _less intense than others who have manic states._


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## shadowwalker (Sep 13, 2014)

ziodice said:


> As someone who's best friend was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder multiple times and shows nigh-identical symptoms to I, I beg to differ.



People see identical symptoms all the time. Every person on earth has identical symptoms with some mental disorder. It doesn't mean they have the illness or that those symptoms are typical of the illness. Unless and until you've actually been diagnosed, I wouldn't be so sure of your knowledge. As you say, you have a habit of self-diagnosis - it used to be called hypochondria. Quit looking for a reason/excuse and accept that writing is hard work. Then decide if you want to put in the hard work or not.


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## T.S.Bowman (Sep 13, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> As you say, you have a habit of self-diagnosis - it used to be called hypochondria.



Oh it still is. 

I diagnose a classic case of it.


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## dale (Sep 13, 2014)

"It happens every time. They all become blueberries."


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## ziodice (Sep 13, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> People see identical symptoms all the time. Every person on earth has identical symptoms with some mental disorder. It doesn't mean they have the illness or that those symptoms are typical of the illness. Unless and until you've actually been diagnosed, I wouldn't be so sure of your knowledge. As you say, you have a habit of self-diagnosis - it used to be called hypochondria. Quit looking for a reason/excuse and accept that writing is hard work. Then decide if you want to put in the hard work or not.


A habit, not a phobia or obsession - I have an interest in psychological disorders and can clearly see thatthere's _something_ wrong with me, and so can anyone else. I'd also _like_ to think I can see the difference, as stated, between "normal human behavior" and "x behavior to an abnormal extent." It's rather offensive that you'd assume I'm just a lazy hypochondriac.

EDIT: And yeah, writing is hard work. I in fact _like_ the revision process. But, as far as _I _perceive it, _everything I write __when I'm down is garbage._ I'm not lazy, I just hold myself to a certain quality standard.


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## Santa (Sep 13, 2014)

I often find that once I begin writing it lifts my mood considerably. I let my subconscious take the car for a spin, and I am most often happy with the journey and destination. I realize I am a bit unusual in this, but as someone who supposedly has ADD, I find that once I begin to write (not wright), I can actually concentrate for a couple thousand words or more. 

As far as self-diagnosing, I do it frequently and more often than not it is just gas. My point, the less seriously you take yourself, the fewer problems you'll have. For instance, if you look at all the Big Pharma commercials we have dozens of ailments I never heard of before. And no, I do not believe it is because we have gotten better at diagnosing things. It is because we listen to all these things that we "should" have and THEN go see a doctor with 'the list' of drugs we need. Used to be the other way around. But I digress.

Ziodice, I suggest you so an activity or meditation to try putting yourself in a better mood. Even if a little better it may help lighten your spirit. Then begin writing. If you do not like the result - rinse and repeat, or come back later and try again. You might also try letting your subconscious take a stab at it. You may be surprised at the results. It sure has helped me. It is also why I write in several genres from children's books, to fantasy novels to suspense thrillers.


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## Bishop (Sep 13, 2014)

ziodice said:


> But, as far as _I _perceive it, _everything I write __when I'm down is garbage._ I'm not lazy, I just hold myself to a certain quality standard.



Holding yourself to a certain standard should include the discipline to continue working hard despite mood. I'm curious of how old you are--mostly to gauge where you are in a career path. At my job, work is not allowed to suffer when I'm 'down'. I have to continue to perform my duties, thick or thin, and that's also how I earn the right to write a work. The moment my job performance slips, I lose privileges like that, and so I force myself to continue to perform admirably throughout my day. I treat my writing the same way, pushing through even when the mood doesn't strike me. Eventually, I learned to compensate for mood and write properly, but only by doing it rather than throwing my hands up in the air.


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## Jeko (Sep 13, 2014)

> I have an interest in psychological disorders and can clearly see that there's _something wrong with me, and so can anyone else. I'd also like to think I can see the difference, as stated, between "normal human behavior" and "x behavior to an abnormal extent." _



If you want your self-diagnosis to mean anything, study the psychology of writing in depth and come to a scientifically sound conclusion. Else, you're just speculating, and it's clearly getting in the way of your craft.

Sylvia Plath had far worse mood swings than you've had, and she wrote a novel and a ton of poetry before she committed suicide. She wrote within her condition, rather than use it as an excuse for not writing some/most of the time. But I guess that if she had your attitude, we wouldn't even know who she was.


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## dale (Sep 13, 2014)

Cadence said:


> If you want your self-diagnosis to mean anything, study the psychology of writing in depth and come to a scientifically sound conclusion. Else, you're just speculating, and it's clearly getting in the way of your craft.
> 
> Sylvia Plath had far worse mood swings than you've had, and she wrote a novel and a ton of poetry before she committed suicide. She wrote within her condition, rather than use it as an excuse for not writing some/most of the time. But I guess that if she had your attitude, we wouldn't even know who she was.



 this is good. i'd say a good portion of great writers suffered from depression or other form of "mental illness". as well as painters, musicians, creators of all types. i guess if red wine and opiates don't work, just embrace the mental illness and get to it.


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## Kyle R (Sep 13, 2014)

ziodice said:


> _how am I going to just sit there writing what I can easily perceive to be _garbage _for a month on the hope that it may actually be good when I come out of the "down" mood?_ How am I supposed to differentiate between "this garbage because it's garbage" and "this is garbage because I think it's garbage because I'm in a bad mood?"



Simple.

You accept the possibility that _everything_ you write will be garbage, regardless of whether you're in a good mood or bad mood.

Once you can accept this, you can then move forward with the recognition that good writing surfaces not from moods, but from _hard work and revision_.

Good writing, bad writing, it doesn't matter. It can _all_ become _excellent_ writing if you work on it. That means letting go of this expectation that good writing is beyond your control.

You're not a divining rod or an instrument to channel some supernatural authorial powers. 

You're a writer, and that means you don't just write, you also revise, you edit, and you take whatever garbage you write (whether it was written while depressed, happy, manic, or apathetic) and you work on it until it's something stellar and unforgettable.


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## dale (Sep 13, 2014)

Kyle R said:


> You're not a divining rod or an instrument to channel some supernatural authorial powers.



i am, though.


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## T.S.Bowman (Sep 13, 2014)

dale said:


> i am, though.



Well that goes without saying.


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## ziodice (Sep 13, 2014)

Responding from my phone, which is a tad annoying as I'm not used to the interface. I'm fifteen, for whoever was asking, and fully aware that if writing were my JOB I'd have to suck it up and do it. And it's not the self diagnosis that got in the way, it's the hing I was diagnosing. Which is why I was diagnosing it. I was hoping for replies with advice on circumventing the problem, instead of simply saying I needs to write with more discipline (or that I'm just wrong)


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## Bishop (Sep 13, 2014)

ziodice said:


> I was hoping for replies with advice on circumventing the problem, instead of simply saying I needs to write with more discipline (or that I'm just wrong)



You will either write when you're down, or you wont... practice and hard work is the only way to overcome this. There's no magical solution, there's no pill to take that brings inspiration. At least no tricks that I have heard of can fix this. Just go. Do, write. If it's bad, rewrite it later. Don't think about what you have just written as you write, just keep writing.


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## dale (Sep 13, 2014)

Bishop said:


> There's no magical solution.


 this is what most people want with every problem. i know i do. on a more serious note than i have been in the thread so far...i suffer from these "down" periods constantly. and i basically just don't write during these periods, which is really unacceptable. but i just don't have a magic pill. i tried clicking my heels together and sprinkling salt over my head, but it doesn't work. i end up just having to bite the bullet and force it.


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## Terry D (Sep 13, 2014)

Two points: one, if you actually have a mental disorder you are not capable of diagnosing yourself because your perception of yourself and of the disorder are not reliable. And two, at fifteen--and I say this as someone who was once fifteen and has had three children pass through that stormy age--you don't have the maturity, experience, education, or objectivity to make any self-diagnosis about your mental health. But this is a writer's site and not a place to play dueling-diagnoses, so, if you don't feel like writing when you are down, don't. It makes no difference to anyone, and there's no hidden way to circumvent the problem. As I've said many times, it may well be that you like the thought of 'being a writer' far more than the actual act of writing, such is the case with many people.


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## dale (Sep 13, 2014)

but if you do find a way to "circumvent the problem", you should write a book about it. we'll all buy it.


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## Apple Ice (Sep 13, 2014)

The longer this thread continues the more likely it will become about mental illness, so I'm not gonna mention that.

As for your problem, just write when you're up. What's the problem with that? I'm precious and only write when I feel like it or when the muse is kicking me etc. I don't care that it's whimsical, it works for me and it could work for you. I get bored if I force myself. Everyone who has ever said something similar to what you have has had a firm finger waging from the forum, so don't take anything personally when some get snappy. But yeah, if you want to change it you're just gonna have to write through the downs as people have said, but, you're 15 and obviously intelligent and articulate, so what's the rush? Just sit back with me and do nothing till you feel like it if it makes you feel better. Life's too short to spend writing when you don't want to


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## Gargh (Sep 13, 2014)

I think it's also worth clarifying that practising doesn't necessarily have to be structured or have measured benefits. Play, as Apple Ice suggested, and also give yourself permission to be rubbish sometimes. You can actually throw stuff away as well; cross it out, it doesn't matter. You're very unlikely to throw away your magnum opus, and if you do, well if you could do it once you'll do it again. If you set too many rules for yourself and over-think it, you'll probably stop trying and that's the only thing guaranteed to impede your writing.


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## Jeko (Sep 13, 2014)

> And it's not the self diagnosis that got in the way, it's the hing I was diagnosing



No, no, no. You do _not _have a mental disorder. You do _not _have a problem. _You _are the problem. What you're _doing _and _not doing _is the problem. The sooner you realise that, the sooner you'll solve the problem, instead of deciding that it's something you can't solve because it's 'disorder' that isn't your fault.

Have you ever tried having discipline as a writer? I used to be sceptical myself; I thought writing was all about always 'feeling' it and tapping into some indescribable power. Eventually I ran out of that power and gave hard work a try. I woke up at the same time every day for a month and wrote in the same place and didn't feel like the day had started until I'd done that routine and it felt _awful _and I didn't like anything I wrote when I read it after the month was done. But after all that, I gained two things: a finished storytelling experiment, which was very educational, and the power to write at any time. I'm a terrible morning person, but I cranked out thousands of words in that period, breaking through my 'issue' of not being 'able' to write. So now, whenever I feel like not writing, like the feeling isn't there, I remember that my opinion on when it's best for me to write is very misinformed.

You're fifteen; I'm seventeen. It took me some time to realise it, but the free time you and I have now isn't going to be around for long. Use it while you can.


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## Kyle R (Sep 13, 2014)

ziodice said:


> I was hoping for replies with advice on circumventing the problem, instead of simply saying I needs to write with more discipline (or that I'm just wrong)



Johnny sighed. Why couldn't he have been born big and strong like his brother, Trent? Even the nurses had said how the guy popped out of the womb looking like a ten-pound bodybuilder. But not Johnny. No, Johnny'd slipped out like an albino bean pole. Now, sixteen years later, he stood topless in front of the mirror, frowning at his bony arms.

The dumbbells his mother had bought for him last Christmas still sat, heaped in the corner of his room, their metallic edges coated with a furry sheen of dust.

Sure, some days he'd felt strong enough to lift them. But those were the rare, *manic* days when he'd been ready to take on the world. Lately, those days seemed to stretch farther and farther apart, the space between them expanding outward like some malevolent cosmic star. Most of the time he just felt frail and hopeless. If only there were a way to... whatever. Maybe tomorrow he'd lift. Tomorrow he'd eat some meat. After all, there _was_ always tomorrow, wasn't there? Why worry about today? It wasn't like he could make a difference in one day, anyway. Johnny tugged on his shirt, threw a towel over the dusty weights, and slinked out the door, his baggy clothes rustling around his wiry frame like flags...


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## NerdyMJ (Sep 14, 2014)

I have borderline personality disorder, which is an actual mood disorder and have no problem writing when I'm depressed. The problem is I usually end up writing something completely different from what I was initially working on. Like I'm working on a novel now, but when I get depressed all I feel like writing is poetry or depressing fanfictions. I find it a lot easier to find inspiration for my novel and to focus on my novel when I'm in a better mood.


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## Megookin (Sep 14, 2014)

I have sat here contemplating the best way I can to respond to this and here is what I have:  The mid-teens for many is a turbulent time of thoughts and moods fueled by physiological changes that are happening.  What may seem to be one ailment can be nothing more than life.  Instead of focusing on what you think you might be suffering from, talk to your parents, a trusted teacher, or clergy about your thoughts and concerns and they will help you.  

In the meantime, write when it suits you.  I only write when my addiction to writing demands a fix to satisfy the need.  Forced writing will not have the same passion as the story that is demanding release from the prison of the mind.  

You can spend your life trying to be what others want you to be;
You can spend your life trying to be what you want to be; or
You can spend your life being you.

The difference is the first two will not bring you happiness and success; but the last one will lead you to contentment.


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## ziodice (Sep 14, 2014)

In any case, while I really don't want to push the issue any further and have mostly accepted defeat, I'm going to say one last thing: It's not like being unable to write is the _only_ issue. I didn't state any other issues, of course, in an attempt to keep this as much a conversation about writing as I could. I'd love to give you a list, but once again, writing forum, not one about depressive disorders. Now it just sounds like I'm lying...whatever. Like I said, I've mostly accepted defeat.


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## Gargh (Sep 15, 2014)

Doesn't sound like you're lying... just that you're looking for answers in the wrong place. If something big is going on for you, you need to talk to your friends, family or doctor or other professional organisation in person. Otherwise, if it's the writing that really bugs you, then you've had lots of good advice: Try some of it and see if it works.


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## talmaflower (Sep 15, 2014)

Just a shot in the dark, but could you work on 'planning' when you don't feel like 'writing'?  I know I feel very differently about the planning than I do about what I think of as the '_real _writing' - but if you work it in a certain way, the planning can be pretty much 90% of the finished thing - in fact, the whole planning/writing boundary is artificial, but if it gives you a different mental take on it, why not go there?

By 'planning' I mean summarise your story in a sentence and build out from there, but no wordsmithing allowed.  And characters; no physical descriptions but write down everything you can think of about their story arcs and motivations.  Don't even concern yourself with the language.  Doesn't matter if it's broken English or txt spk or a scattering of words that don't form proper sentences.  Write down any questions that arise too.  Got a plot hole?  Question it.  Not sure whether something's plausible?  Make a note of that.  Peaks, troughs, major events, turning points in your story, potential sub-plots.  Just spew stuff out there.

Then, when you're feeling 'up', you've got a pool of ideas to work with and you can start polishing stuff a bit more.

On the other hand, maybe you work the opposite way round.  Maybe everything I've just said is exactly what you can _only _do when you're 'up'.  In that case, switch it around.  Work on your purple prose when you're 'down'.  Pour your guts out about When Geoff Saw It Happen or Kelly Ruminates On Her Past.  Doesn't matter if it's crap.  Then when you're 'up', take all the crap you've written and use it to feed into the opposite, planning stage.  That might be when you get all the revelations like 'no way would Geoff react like that!' or 'but Jo's past is far more important to the story than Kelly's!' and you can start to make more progress that way.


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