# Planning your story



## pauldennis133 (Jun 3, 2012)

Hello all,

I had some quick questions on the planning part of stories and novels. This seems to be one of the biggest roadblocks I have and can stop a story before it even begins. Does anyone have any tips to make the planning process better or a little bit more fun? My thing right now is that I just want to get right into the writing but I feel that by doing that, I come in unprepared and don't really know where I need to go. Essentially I know I at least need a road-map or outline of my story, I just need an effective way to do it while keeping my passion for the writing up. Thank you all for any help or advice you have.


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## Walt1093 (Jun 3, 2012)

I have some of the same trouble. However, planning can be every bit as fun as writing, and can be a big help when you start writing. I wrote my first novel without planning and it costed me BIG TIME. So, here's what I do. I look for ways to tease the reader with hints and clues. Also, I fill the story with conflict, from the beginning till the end: that way I'll have something exciting to write throughout the whole story. Thirdly, look to your friends and family for great characters. Observe their habits, particularly the unflattering ones.  

 Your climax should be as long as possible. Make the reader think that its all over, and then throw something into the story that starts all the trouble back again. The last thing I'll say is to be CERTAIN that there are no boring scenes in your story; this is where the fun comes in during your planning. Create constant conflict, unforgettable characters, and a breathtaking climax. If you try to do these things, then you will have a GREAT time planning the story, and it will make your work better too.


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## squidtender (Jun 3, 2012)

Go check out this thread: http://www.writingforums.com/writing-discussion/130035-storyboarding-your-novel.html, including Tiamats post on beat sheets. This will give you an idea about ways to start the writing process. Personally, I use a general outline, an idea of where I want the story to begin, end and the important scenes that I want to include. Then, I make myself write the same time, same days, with a minimum of a thousand words a night. Some people need a very detailed outline, some don't. It's just a matter of figuring out what works best for you and your muse. Good luck and happy writing


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 3, 2012)

I write a really condensed version as a guide, for example I might say "There is an argument, some surprising facts are revealed, Peter is told some home truths and has a heart attack, his body is passed off as Terry's and the police sidetracked" That will easily make a full chapter, but it helps me when I am writing to keep track of where I am and what went before and after and stop me making continuity errors "Oh no! He can't know that yet until whatsit gets back", that sort of thing.


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## Kyle R (Jun 3, 2012)

http://www.writingforums.com/books-authors/128852-books-learning-story-structure.html


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## Altan (Jun 3, 2012)

I like to create Notepad (or a similar program) documents with character information and such and save them to subfolders of your story's location.
As well as a general chronological outline if the story takes place over a number of years 

But this is just what works well for me.
With you, it may not help as much or may even hurt you in the long run


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## Newman (Jun 5, 2012)

You have to learn how to break down stories and see how they work. And then learn to replace the worlds, characters and their motivations with your own creations.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 11, 2012)

pauldennis133 said:


> I know I at least need a road-map or outline of my story



That may actually be your problem. I write with only a general idea of what the story is about - or just the MC and a 'something' that happens, and take it from there. Outlining or planning of just about any other sort bores me to tears. I've never had any problem figuring out where the story should go because it all depends on where it's been. There are a lot of writers (and yes, published ones) who don't outline. So if that's what's giving you headaches, try working without. There's no "must do" method; whatever works for you is the best method to use.


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## Jeko (Jun 11, 2012)

Before you even start planning, you need to do one thing - define your purpose. Why are you writing this? Why are you therefore planning for it? If you don't start with that, you're not going to get very far.

Then you need to work out what kind of writer you are; what feels natural to you. Starting by doing things unnaturally will only lead to big problems. Doesn't mean you can't do things _differently_, but if it feels wrong, then however right it is, you won't achieve well with it.

By answering those simple question,s you will find planninga lot easier, and more enjoyable. I answered them like this:

Why? I feel inspired to try something new and I feel I can go places with it I haven't been able to before.
What kind of writer? The kind that enjoys flexible work, time, progress, and guidelines.

Hence, my current planning model supports both the reason I want to write and the kind of writer I am. The same should be true for anyone looking to be successful with their work, I think. My model is however completely different to everything else I've done before, but that's because I hadn't really answered these questions before. 

The first steps are always the most important. Never treat planning as a box to tick, but something you can intergrate into your creative process to achieve stress-free, imaginative, and continuous productivity in your writing. If it feels like a chore, you're doing it wrong. Start back at the beginning - the most common mistakes are the simplest. If you are driven by anything like fanaticism, you'll run out of fuel halfway across the country. If you are writing to be someone else, then you will most probably fail to be them, and you. Write to be you, nad know who you are.

Hope that helped.


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## Walter F. (Jun 11, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> I write a really condensed version as a guide, for example I might say "There is an argument, some surprising facts are revealed, Peter is told some home truths and has a heart attack, his body is passed off as Terry's and the police sidetracked" That will easily make a full chapter, but it helps me when I am writing to keep track of where I am and what went before and after and stop me making continuity errors "Oh no! He can't know that yet until whatsit gets back", that sort of thing.


I do that. I find it very helpful.


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## Mr mitchell (Jun 11, 2012)

I always need to know what I want to write, but if I didn't, then I wouldn't otherwise write it. I think planning is important when it comes to writing, if I didn't then, I will be lost in the transition. But the way I plan is to have a basic outline, the main character and what he/she want.


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## Sam (Jun 11, 2012)

There are several hugely successful authors who don't plan, so it's only as important as you want to make it.


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## Newman (Jun 12, 2012)

Mr mitchell said:


> I always need to know what I want to write, but if I didn't, then I wouldn't otherwise write it. I think planning is important when it comes to writing, if I didn't then, I will be lost in the transition. But the way I plan is to have a basic outline, the main character and what he/she want.



I suggest detailed outlines.

Why outline just the MC? Why not choose five archetypes and outline their whole passage through the cycle. 

Section the journey and make sure each has a place in each section.

That way you figure out multiple motivations, relationships, interactions and so much more. 

Works for me. Brilliantly.


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## Edward G (Jun 12, 2012)

Writing a story breaks down like this (FREE)

*F*irst draft
*R*evision
*E*diting
*E*valuation

You start with the most general idea. "I have a story about a woman who's facing the end of life, but a Voodoo boker shows her how she can live forever. Unfortunately, she falls into his trap and does live forever as his slave."

Then comes the *first draft*. You really don't know what's going to happen with this story, you won't know that until the final punctuation mark is placed at the end of the first draft. It is during the first draft that you are creating the story. If you were to plan it all out in great detail before starting, then that would be your first draft. So many people think their first draft has to sound good or be near completion, but that's just not true. The first draft is horrible, but in the end it tells the story.

After your first draft, you go into revision. *Revision* is where the story is crafted. It's where you apply all your talents as a story teller and make sure stuff is foreshadowed, that dialog is realistic and interesting, that pacing is correct, sentences sound good and pithy, etc. Everyone can write a first draft. I wrote my first draft at ten years old. Every carpenter, plumber, nurse, doctor, prisoner, mental patient, et. al. can write a rough draft. The skill of a writer, the years of practice, the years of education, that is what's applied in the revision.


Then comes editing. *Editing* is a fine tuning of the revision. It is for the most part an academic and exceptionally boring activity. There is no creativity involved, only the application of the rules of language (spelling, punctuation, verb tense agreement, etc.) A final edit is called a copy edit and some people will even go backwards through their story to try to catch errors in mechanics and grammar. This is what few people can do well. This almost demands a second pair of eyes, an outside editor to help with, even if you have to pay someone to do it (typically a dollar a page).

Finally, you come to the *evaluation* stage, this is where you can let other people read it and get a critique, be that an agent, editor, another author, a reviewer, whatever. Notice that this stage comes at the very end. Most people post their first draft material and want someone's opinion. That, of course, is ridiculous. I could never imagine letting someone read the first draft of anything I ever wrote--except maybe for these forum posts.


Good luck in your writing, :salut:

Ed


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## shadowwalker (Jun 12, 2012)

Edward G said:


> Writing a story breaks down like this (FREE)
> 
> *F*irst draft
> *R*evision
> ...



See, I'd be bored to tears by the time I got to Evaluation. Which is why I don't outline at all, and edit/revise as I go. And I hit that Evaluation stage at the end of each chapter. I have exactly one completed story that I tried to edit/revise as a whole - and it sits on my hard drive, gathering dust. I got through the first five chapters and tossed it. I may re-do the idea, but I'll start from scratch, maybe pull a few bits and pieces from the original, but there's just no point in trying to revise at this stage. The thought of allowing myself to write a garbage first draft and then revising doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm just used to the adage of "Get it right the first time.".


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## Kyle R (Jun 12, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> The thought of allowing myself to write a garbage first draft and then revising doesn't make sense to me.



I believe it's meant to find ideas. That's how I use it, at least. I sit down with no idea what to write; no character, no premise, no genre in mind..

I just begin putting random words on the page.. eventually they form into a narrative. After that, I sift away the fluff to find ideas that could be expanded into something worthwhile. :encouragement:


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## shadowwalker (Jun 12, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> I believe it's meant to find ideas. That's how I use it, at least. I sit down with no idea what to write; no character, no premise, no genre in mind..
> 
> I just begin putting random words on the page.. eventually they form into a narrative. After that, I sift away the fluff to find ideas that could be expanded into something worthwhile. :encouragement:



I can see the first couple of pages perhaps, as one just gets the feel for the story. But much more than that - I just can't do it. If I can't get into the story by then, it gets filed into my Ideas file to wait until I'm ready to move forward. 

But, as always with writing, different things work for different writers. The trick is trying those different things until you find what works.


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## Edward G (Jun 12, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> See, I'd be bored to tears by the time I got to Evaluation. Which is why I don't outline at all, and edit/revise as I go. And I hit that Evaluation stage at the end of each chapter. I have exactly one completed story that I tried to edit/revise as a whole - and it sits on my hard drive, gathering dust. I got through the first five chapters and tossed it. I may re-do the idea, but I'll start from scratch, maybe pull a few bits and pieces from the original, but there's just no point in trying to revise at this stage. The thought of allowing myself to write a garbage first draft and then revising doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm just used to the adage of "Get it right the first time.".



In my opinion, I just don't know how your system could work unless you have the story completed in your head before you begin. But whatever works for you works for you.

I will admit the revision stage can be frightening and the editing stage is often boring. I guess that's why they call a novel a "work" of fiction. When I finished Caretakers, I swore I would never write another novel, but that didn't stick. I'm at it again with the unassailable faith that this one is going to be a mega-bestselling classic, of course! :sunny:


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## shadowwalker (Jun 12, 2012)

Edward G said:


> In my opinion, I just don't know how your system could work unless you have the story completed in your head before you begin. But whatever works for you works for you.



Have no idea how it will end when I start, and only a faint clue as to the middle. An MC, an idea of something happening to him/involving him - that's about it, and then I see where it leads me. Short stories I have a clearer idea of what happens, but that's 'cause they're short. ;-)


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## Sam (Jun 12, 2012)

I get one idea, expand upon it, and then follow it to its logical conclusion. While I'm doing that, the next idea comes to me. I flesh it out as well. At points in my novels there are upwards of six main characters and as many points-of-view. I constantly rotate these between chapters, until everything comes together at the end. But I often have zero idea of what will happen along the way. There's no other way to explain it than by saying that the ideas come to me mid-writing, which makes it very fulfilling when they click into place several chapters down the line. 

There is no planning. I have never sat down and wrote an outline. When I have an idea for a story I'd like to write, I begin writing. Everything else will sort itself out along the way, and always has. I've never gotten halfway through a novel and stopped because I thought it was all over the place. How can it be? It follows a linear progression, after all.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 12, 2012)

> It follows a linear progression, after all.


That's fairly normal, Sam, but not inevitable.


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## Nemesis (Jun 12, 2012)

See, I can feel you on this one, unless it is an informative paper I don't outline or write down much except for occasional facts, research, or terms I've come across. I do story board in my head though, I play it out like a movie and think about it constantly, when I do write it down I'm describing what I'm seeing in my head. when I get to difficult to explain parts or something that I hadn't formally clarified already I just sit and think, sometimes i go talk to someone about it and the solution comes to me while I'm going over it. However all the sites I've cruised over advise plotting it all out on paper, so I guess that's probably the best way to go about it


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## garza (Jun 12, 2012)

I started trying to write fiction when I joined this forum and I've learned a few things about what works for me to develop a story.
1. The system Altan uses is efficient and effective. It's a carry-over from my non-fiction writing where it has worked well for donkeys' years.
2. Outlines kill ideas.
3. When an idea for a new story hits I do what Faulkner claimed he did. I create some characters, follow them around, and write down what they say. They develop the story for me.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 12, 2012)

Noxicity said:


> However all the sites I've cruised over advise plotting it all out on paper, so I guess that's probably the best way to go about it



No, that's the way those sites advise doing it - because the majority of writers (or the most vocal) on those sites use outlines. If your way is working, _that's_ the best way for _you_. Don't fix what ain't broke.


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## ~Glassword~ (Jun 13, 2012)

I think there are different styles that work for different people. Seeing your concern however, this is my two cents. 
Plan a very basic story arc. Just how it's going to begin, a couple of central issues, how they're resolved and then how the story finishes.
Then segment that arc into chapters or annotate the arc with what individual characters will be doing at that point in the novel.

It's fun to get a really good looking one going and then you can put it up where you write, to keep you on track. 

Honestly, it should be a case of: "I know exactly what happens, now I just have to write it..." hahah Good luck!


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## Newman (Jun 13, 2012)

That's why you use a whiteboard:
A staff writer's look at Ringer | A ton of useful information about screenwriting from screenwriter John August

The argument:
Outlining Your Script or Story

Watch the second part of the video:
"Screenplays Are STRUCTURE" (The Importance Of Outlining) - YouTube


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## Sam (Jun 13, 2012)

Newman said:


> The argument:
> Outlining Your Script or Story





			
				Thomas Sawyer said:
			
		

> I continue to be amazed by the number of screenwriters and working,  published novelists I meet who do NOT outline. And at the risk (one from  which I have rarely shied) of coming off as a smartass -- they are  wrong.



All due respect, Mr Sawyer, but you can take a running jump. This elitist attitude bugs me to no end. Lee Child's novels have been translated into five different languages and have topped best-selling charts in over forty countries worldwide. The man has never outlined a story in his life, yet he is more successful than Sawyer could ever dream of. Robert Ludlum did not outline. Jack Higgins. Sidney Sheldon. Clive Cussler. Nathaniel Roberts. Ken Follett. 

The list is endless. It's rather presumptuous for Sawyer to assume he knows the craft as well as men and women who together have penned hundreds of novels.


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## Newman (Jun 13, 2012)

Sam W said:


> ....This elitist attitude bugs me to no end......presumptuous....



I didn't sense any of that from the article.



There's another more important reason which Sawyer's forgotten to mention and that is structure.

Which opens up another hornets nest. Structure and the idea that certain things have to be done by certain page counts.

All of that is helped immeasurably by outlining.


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## Terry D (Jun 13, 2012)

Sam W said:


> All due respect, Mr Sawyer, but you can take a running jump. This elitist attitude bugs me to no end. Lee Child's novels have been translated into five different languages and have topped best-selling charts in over forty countries worldwide. The man has never outlined a story in his life, yet he is more successful than Sawyer could ever dream of. Robert Ludlum did not outline. Jack Higgins. Sidney Sheldon. Clive Cussler. Nathaniel Roberts. Ken Follett.
> 
> The list is endless. It's rather presumptuous for Sawyer to assume he knows the craft as well as men and women who together have penned hundreds of novels.



And don't forget the best selling novelist for the past 30 years, Stephen King.  No outlines for him.

This is a really dumb argument in my opinion.  Just do what works for you.  It's obvious some people need an outline.  For others it's just an aid (me), many don't need one at all.  I don't understand why people feel the need to try and make this an absolute one way or another.  

We have published authors right here on this forum who are saying they don't need an outline . . . 'nuff said.


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## Sam (Jun 13, 2012)

Newman said:


> I didn't sense any of that from the article.



Anyone who makes a sweeping remark that all people who don't outline are _wrong__, _is both presumptuous and arrogant. Not to mention elitist, in my opinion. The very fact that I, and many others, have given the names of several highly successful authors who don't outline merely emphasises the point. I would like to hear if someone believes that King, best-seller of over seventy novels, was 'wrong' to refrain from outlining. 

There is no such thing as 'wrong' in writing.


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## Jeko (Jun 13, 2012)

> There is no such thing as 'wrong' in writing.



I think the only thing that's wrong in writing is not writing. For me, outlinesa re a form of writing - they make the whole, tie the knots, brdge the gaps, invent more metaphors when I get too tired of stringing them together. As there is no one way to write, there is no one way to outline. We all outline in our minds, I think.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 13, 2012)

Anyone who says you _must_ do something "this way" because that's how they do it needs to get their head out of their... ego.


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## Jeko (Jun 13, 2012)

And then they need to get their ego out of their ass. That just isn't healthy...


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## Cirrocumulus (Jun 13, 2012)

I find it interesting that this thread has become a discussion about whether or not to outline. It's essentially about top-down vs bottom-up approaches.

Something I learned in my undergrad psychology course seems especilly relevant here. A witness to a crime will have more acurate and detailed recall if asked to write freely a page on the event than if they were asked more specific questions. As always, caution is needed in deriving generalisations, but the apparent relevance of this finding to the use of outlining is to me too striking to ignore.

I don't count it as sufficient reason to altogether reject outlining, but I do see it as reason to beware of its potential thought-blocking tyranny. I've found free writing to often yield valuable material which I wouldn't have been able to think of while in _planning mode_, and which often results in changes of plan. I think it's important to be aware that the material one is able to either recall or creatively generate is different depending on our state of mind. Outlining requires and is conducive to analytic, big-picture, logical thinking; free writing (as I'm sure everyone here is well aware) engages a very different state. I think that the use of one or the other should depend on one's needs in the moment, and one needs to be flexible.


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## Nemesis (Jun 13, 2012)

Cirrocumulus said:


> I don't count it as sufficient reason to altogether reject outlining, but I do see it as reason to beware of its potential thought-blocking tyranny. I've found free writing to often yield valuable material which I wouldn't have been able to think of while in _planning mode_, and which often results in changes of plan. I think it's important to be aware that the material one is able to either recall or creatively generate is different depending on our state of mind. Outlining requires and is conducive to analytic, big-picture, logical thinking; free writing (as I'm sure everyone here is well aware) engages a very different state. I think that the use of one or the other should depend on one's needs in the moment, and one needs to be flexible.



Well put, I completely agree.


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## Newman (Jun 13, 2012)

Just to stoke the fire 

JK Rowling's outline:
S. M. Worth: Outline Like J.K. Rowlings


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jun 13, 2012)

My own process is very slow, but I feel that it works.  I never write without planning, and only plan when I feel some inspiration.  It starts out simply: Here's the concept I want to explore, here's the general way I'll explore it, and I'll need at least these characters.  From there I'll develop those bullet points: Why is this character involved? What's her motivation? Why are these events happening?

After the world is built, it's time to flesh out the plot.  We're starting at A and ending at J, so it's time to get events B, C, D, and all the way to I.  Sometimes I realize I need more events.  Sometimes I need fewer.  Eventually, I have a rough chapter structure for the book.

Once I know roughly how things are going to go, I fill in chapter details as I feel inspired, and only write chapters that I have fully outlined.  Sometimes this means writing chapters out of order, but that's fine.  The writing process is simply filling in the blanks between the introduction and conclusion anyway, so what does it matter where those blanks are?

Eventually, everything is written, and because I've planned and outlined beforehand, I rarely have foreshadowing difficulties or events out of order.  Still, editing needs to be done.  It's time to cruelly cut out everything that's superfluous, ensuring that the story is the best it can be.  I'm on this stage now, and I have yet to find out how long it'll last.  I know it'll be hard, though.

So, that's my process in a nutshell.  It's slow because I only write when I feel motivated, and it's the reason my 200,000 word story has taken five years so far (3.5 years since writing the first chapter).  However, I'm pretty satisfied with the results.


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## Jon M (Jun 13, 2012)

I basically thrash around for a couple hours each day and somehow, miraculously, emerge with something decent.

And I'm usually not wearing pants at the time. Not sure how this happens.


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## VancouverLady (Jun 14, 2012)

Sam W said:


> There are several hugely successful authors who don't plan, so it's only as important as you want to make it.



I was totally going to say that.  Stephen King says that he just sits down, starts writing, and lets the story unfold however it wants.  The story seems more natural that way.  You just let the characters take you through it, and you don't over plan.  He says he never knows how something is going to end, until he finishes writing it.


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## Edward G (Jun 14, 2012)

Personally, I think it's kind of a misnomer to talk about "planning" anyway, because if one sits down and writes out a detailed plan, that's basically a first draft and serves the same function as a first draft. I mean they didn't have a plan to write the plan, did they? So really, no one plans a story. I think everyone "develops" a story in the beginning. Later in the revision they craft the story.

I realize there are some who say they revise and edit to completion as they go along, but I also notice they have nothing published--just and observation.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 14, 2012)

Edward G said:


> I realize there are some who say they revise and edit to completion as they go along, but I also notice they have nothing published--just and observation.



There are also writers on this forum who revise and edit to completion as they go along and _are _published. So I guess your observation was actually incomplete.


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## Kyle R (Jun 14, 2012)

_Among the writers I have known, one habitually worked lying down in the dark, in a trailer with its windows painted black, dictating into a tape recorder. Another, when he wanted to think about a new novel, got on a bus to a destination about four hours away--it didn't matter where. When he arrived, he boarded another bus and rode back; by the time he got home, he would have the novel all plotted out. Another meditated about a novel for three months, then sat down in a specially designed cubicle, smaller than a telephone booth, and typed furiously for thirty hours straight. When he came out, the novel was done.

It follows that you must learn to write your own way, or you can never learn at all. I don't mean that you can do whatever you please; you still have to communicate with the rest of us. I just mean that nobody can tell you exactly how to do it. "Here are the rules," I say; but when you are skilled enough, you will certainly bend some of these rules and break others.

"Writing talent" is not all one thing; it is a cluster of abilities--verbal facility, imagination, "storytelling ability", sense of drama, of structure, of rhythm, and probably a lot of others that nobody has put a name to. You may have a great ear for dialogue, for instance, but be poor at visual description; or you may be weak at plotting but have a strong narrative sense. Your first job is to find out your strengths and weaknesses, and your second is to learn to get the most out of what you have.

- Damon Knight_


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## TheStory (Jun 15, 2012)

I am only now getting back into writing but I have been approaching storytelling in terms of character design and animation for a while. I am in the boat of people who agree that planned or unplanned it really has to do with what the author is most comfortable with, and under what circumstances their creativity and ability to entertain thrives.

I sort of approach writing how I approach my artwork. I throw everything down and let my brain get to work without much but a simple idea or the vaguest of outlines. The most pre fleshed out concepts are who my main character/s are.*

In art you draw a bunch of thumbnails before anything else. These are tiny drawings that can possibly be the setup for your finished piece. They help get ideas out and pretty much flush out all the crummy ideas that may be bogging you down and allow other more unique concepts to emerge. Once you have a decent amount or you cant come up with anything else you take your favorite images further into a sketch. Then you revise the sketch and fix big issues.... then you revise some more.... fix... revise.... polish. 
The thumbnails are not something you*necessarily*sat down and*thoroughly*planned. If you did that you'd hardly have enough to choose from, or you may get stuck on one concept for a design when it could go somewhere different and actually be quite better.

I think writing without an outline works fine if you are comfortable. I just write to get all the junk out of my head just like how I use thumbnails. I let the ideas come to me. Ideas I may not have had if I planned the story out too strictly. That outcome will be my first draft. I will revise from there and will probably have a better idea how to put these concepts together now that I've laid it all out. That is where all the revision comes in and my draft sort of takes the place of my outline.

If I do have an outline it is the bare bones. I plan where I want to start and who everyone involved is. What I want my main obstacles to be. Possibly figure out my theme and mood. Then I decide how I'd like everything to wrap up ideally. From there I simply attempt to get my characters from point A to point B.

This is how I enjoy working but it is by no means _the way_. Everyone is different and I don't know if I'll even stick with this method forever.


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## Newman (Jun 16, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> _Among the writers I have known, one...when he wanted to think about a new novel, got on a bus to a destination about four hours away--it didn't matter where. When he arrived, he boarded another bus and rode back; by the time he got home, he would have the novel all plotted out._



Love it. Greyhound here I come.

If you've ever spent a night in a cell you'll know it's an excellent place to think about your story. There is NOTHING else to do. Problem is they won't give you a pen or paper.


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## Newman (Jun 16, 2012)

Edward G said:


> Personally, I think it's kind of a misnomer to talk about "planning" anyway, because if one sits down and writes out a detailed plan, that's basically a first draft and serves the same function as a first draft. I mean they didn't have a plan to write the plan, did they? So really, no one plans a story. I think everyone "develops" a story in the beginning. Later in the revision they craft the story.



Kinda agree.

It's all about the search for ideas.

But it's a lot less cumbersome playing around with an outline than a first draft.

You're also a lot less attached to an outline, which makes it easier to make big changes.

There are a billion good reasons to outline. And maybe only five good reasons to jump straight into a first draft IMO


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## El Chacal (Jun 17, 2012)

pauldennis133 said:


> Does anyone have any tips to make the planning process better or a little bit more fun?



Drink vodka. A lot of vodka.


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## Nicky (Jul 11, 2012)

I usually start off at work with a little flip note book that can fit in my pocket

from there I use the notes I made to do outlines for a chapter or and act or even the whole book

then I load up word and procrastinate for about an hour or two

then I start to write totally deviating from the outline or even the original notes

then I try to beg a friend to read it and tell me what they think

then when that friend doesn't tell me what I want to hear I find a completely different friend hoping that person will tell me what I want to hear

then I completely alienate the people whose opinions I asked for by stalking them on face book or whatever instant messenger service they use

then finally I pay real money for a professional to critique my work only to tell me the same things the original people told me
then and I go ahead and make those changes to the body of work.

then I ask for the same original friends to read it again and give me their opinion

rinse-repeat.


It’s actually quite a flawless system and I don't plan on changing it


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## philistine (Jul 11, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> There are also writers on this forum who revise and edit to completion as they go along and _are _published. So I guess your observation was actually incomplete.



I'd be one such person. I conduct a serious revision once I've completed a piece, though do make changes along the way.


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## philistine (Jul 11, 2012)

El Chacal said:


> Drink vodka. A lot of vodka.



That may work for some. For others, it may be the painting equivalent of mixing various shades of brown. ride:


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## Extinct_Stimulus (Jul 11, 2012)

If we're talking short stories, I write about a page or two of dialogue off the top of my head and then unearth the plot.

If we're talking novels, I take one of the 80,000 plots running around in my brain and just go with it. I usually work with an outline _as_ I write to keep track of everything. 



Newman said:


> JK Rowling's outline:
> S. M. Worth: Outline Like J.K. Rowlings



This is pretty awesome.


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