# Lifting your spirits up when you're feeling low.



## MaitreyeeMAYHEM (Dec 24, 2012)

Hello, I'm new to this forum and I have a few questions for those who are more experienced in writing. I am my own worst critic. I have thrown out so many books I've started to write because i look at other authors and compare my work. I always find it hard starting out the chapter or using certain sentences. There are so many ways you can write a story but I want to make sure it flows together perfectly. I am trying not to compare myself and do the best I can but how does everyone else keep their spirits up?


----------



## Arcopitcairn (Dec 24, 2012)

You're making art. If it is good, if it is bad, it's yours, and it is art. Do it for yourself first and have fun doing it, because if you can do that, you're not going to lose. Just realize that creative time is time well spent, no matter the outcome.

Oh...and let a smile be your umbrella.


----------



## MaitreyeeMAYHEM (Dec 24, 2012)

Good insight, it's just hard for me because I have expectations but I'll work on that.


----------



## squidtender (Dec 24, 2012)

The best advice I can give you, is don't stop. You'll never learn how to write a book, if you never write a book. I know some authors that wrote several before they had one that was worth publishing. DON'T STOP . . . seriously, watch my mouth . . . D-O-N-T S-T-O-P. You can do this. You just have to give yourself the chance


----------



## Lewdog (Dec 24, 2012)

I take elevators instead of the stairs whenever possible.


----------



## tepelus (Dec 25, 2012)

Like others have said, write the book and don't stop until you've reached The End. The only way you're going to write a book is to write a book all the way to the end. Let yourself write drivel, if it's what it takes to reach the end. You can either trash it then, or edit the heck out of it until it shines. Either way, you can at least say, I wrote a book! As Hemingway said, The first draft of anything is s**t. Don't be hard on yourself if your first draft doesn't come out as you like, because if you keep ditching a book before reaching the end, you'll never finish anything. The more you write and the more you finish, the better you'll be at writing and finishing. And remember to have fun, and good luck!


----------



## MaitreyeeMAYHEM (Dec 25, 2012)

I think I will also join RWA. One of my favorite authors Delilah Marvelle said it helped her get to where she is today. I wrote her on twitter.


----------



## Vertigo (Dec 25, 2012)

When I give critique, up or down, I make a point at the end to always say "Keep writing!" If you stop writing, if you tie yourself up into a knot where you can't do anything because you're paralyzed with the fear that you'll screw it up... you'll never know whether you would have screwed it up or not because you'll never do it. And you never improve if you don't practice. So you're your own worst critic. That's tough. At the same time, that's great. You're good enough to recognize that you suck sometimes. So the critical thing is to keep that feeling around and let it drive you on.

For me, perfectionist that I am, what I do is draft something badly, I mean I know it's bad, and leave it and keep moving. Then, a couple of chapters later, when I hit a lull in the drafting, I come back and completely rewrite the section using what I've learned. Even if I wrote four bad lines for every one good one in that first draft, I have a place to start improving. So my advice to you would be to look for the good in your work and to work hard to expand on it.

IMO, everybody's first draft are crappy.


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 25, 2012)

Writing fiction is like swordmaking.

You need to make bad swords in order to learn how to make good swords--and that means going through the process, several times, from beginning to end.

Improvement comes from repetition, experimentation, and experience. You gain all those things by completing stories.

Forge ahead! (*Groans at my own use of a pun. Lol*) :encouragement:


----------



## Lewdog (Dec 26, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> Writing fiction is like swordmaking.
> 
> You need to make bad swords in order to learn how to make good swords--and that means going through the process, several times, from beginning to end.
> 
> ...



Really?  I'm thinking if you make a bad sword and it breaks in the middle of battle, you're dead and you won't be making any more swords.


----------



## Jeko (Dec 26, 2012)

Struggle!

I have that word wrtten on my wall, to remind me what life is. You must struggle to succeed, and this is the same in writing. Just remember what you're aiming for, and you'll work as hard as you have to to get there.


----------



## chicagoliz (Dec 26, 2012)

I agree with the sentiment that you should not worry about other authors and just need to write the whole story before giving any thought to what anyone else thinks of your story. I have found that sometimes I have read a book that is traditionally published and quite popular (often I have been 'forced' to read these via my book club) and found the stories and writing to be so terrible that I wonder how it was published, how it is popular, and think "Jeez -- *I* could write a better story than this!"

I also enter a short story contest on another site that happens roughly once a month.  I am always amazed, when looking through the criticisms of other stories, as well as of my own, how many variations of opinion there are on stories.  The same story can have multiple reviews that say "I just didn't get this at all," or "I think this needs to be reworked here and here," or "Too much is happening here, you really need to cut a lot of this out," as well as having reviews that say "I loved this story!"  or "It is perfect as is.  I loved the characters and the setting."   

So just write and see what you end up with.  The most important critic is yourself.  If you really like it, there are others who will, as well.


----------



## squidtender (Dec 26, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> Forge ahead! (*Groans at my own use of a pun. Lol*) :encouragement:



Thanks Kyle. Had to poke out my own eyes for reading that


----------



## TheWonderingNovice (Dec 26, 2012)

I used to do the same thing, actually, I still fine myself doing the same thing at times, and it makes me so mad because I know that I shouldnt do that and it discourages me even more. 
_
You have an idea; now find a way to express it in a way that suits you._
The authors have already done that and it went well for them, but I'm sure they didn’t nail it on their first try. It just takes several tries until you find the right fit.


----------



## Cran (Dec 26, 2012)

Lewdog said:


> Really?  I'm thinking if you make a bad sword and it breaks in the middle of battle, you're dead and you won't be making any more swords.


Swordmakers (weaponsmiths) don't go into battle - soldiers do. 

A good swordmaker who cares about those who take swords into battle will first test each sword; most failures are revealed at this stage. Broken and flawed swords are usually remade - reforged - and retested before they ever get to a battle.


----------



## Lewdog (Dec 26, 2012)

Cran said:


> Swordmakers (weaponsmiths) don't go into battle - soldiers do.
> 
> A good swordmaker who cares about those who take swords into battle will first test each sword; most failures are revealed at this stage. Broken and flawed swords are usually remade - reforged - and retested before they ever get to a battle.




I watched "Pirates of the Caribbean," and Orlando Bloom's character that was a sword-smith definitely used the swords he made in battle.  If it was in a movie, it has to be true, the internet told me so.


----------



## Kitana (Dec 26, 2012)

I don't know if I can say I'm very experienced but I myself am much like you. My own worst critic and compare my writing to others. But how I have learned cope was by taking those authors works and not just comparing but also try to really look at their work. Yes you can see what they did right but you can also see where they may of even made an error. The way I see it I can learn from their triumphs as well as their mistakes and in turn make my work better.

You can always compare your work to others but no matter what each person has a different view of different things. So though you may see your work as not good or well written as say another persons, they may beg to differ, and think yours is better then theirs.

 My motto also is to just write no matter what, as others have stated. Even if it's not quite following my storyline or I happened to veer off track I still push on and just try to veer the story back inline and fix the mistake(s) later. I have even found those mistakes repairable with just a few simple changes I didn't see the first time.
I have also started telling myself this: "Well if *Insert Published Author* can do it. I can too." This may be silly but that's just me. <^.^>
I also try to really connect with my characters, really get into telling their story. Because to me that's what it comes down to; Telling your characters stories. And if I'm interested in them I'll want to tell them even more, I even find ideas flow easier to me because I think more about the characters and the plot they've gotten themselves into. This is just me though but I hope it may help.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Dec 27, 2012)

It often seems to me that we write the same things in different formats again and again, those first writings are not junk, they are simply not fully developed, and there are things in there that you will use later if you keep them. The form may change, but that twist, the original way of seeing the world, can be as valuable as all the fluency you may acquire later.

"I also try to really connect with my characters", yes Kitana, very much so. I can't think how many times I have written a piece of dialogue and then thought 'The meaning is right, but he/she simply wouldn't phrase it like that, that is how I would say it.' The same applies to action, but more subtly.

You may not finish everything, but keep it with the intention of editing and finishing. Sometimes this works,sometimes it is good practice at editing, sometimes it inspires something new, sometimes it simply makes you feel good to look back and see how much you have improved, and script uses hardly any memory, a cheap, low gig, memory stick carries everything I have ever written, so then I have two copies, one on my key ring with me, one at home on the computer.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Dec 27, 2012)

Cran said:


> Swordmakers (weaponsmiths) don't go into battle - soldiers do.
> 
> A good swordmaker who cares about those who take swords into battle will first test each sword; most failures are revealed at this stage. Broken and flawed swords are usually remade - reforged - and retested before they ever get to a battle.


And if he misses one it won't come back, no problem, lucky sword-smith.


----------



## Lewdog (Dec 27, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> And if he misses one it won't come back, no problem, lucky sword-smith.



Kind of like a Sushi chef that does blowfish?  Then again a bad reputation won't exactly get you very many Christmas cards.


----------



## Staff Deployment (Dec 27, 2012)

Lewdog said:


> Kind of like a Sushi chef that does blowfish?  Then again a bad reputation won't exactly get you very many Christmas cards.



The difference between a blowfish chef and a writer is that terrible cooking will kill a person, while terrible writing will net you millions of dollars and a movie deal.


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 27, 2012)

Staff Deployment said:


> terrible writing will net you millions of dollars and a movie deal.



My goal! Look out, Hollywood! Here I come! 

Elmer Satinfloof and his gang of Plutonian Brain Plants scour the catacombs of an Indiana Walmart for the earth-saving Pocketfish of Destiny.


----------



## Cran (Dec 27, 2012)

Lewdog said:


> I watched "Pirates of the Caribbean," and Orlando Bloom's character that was a sword-smith definitely used the swords he made in battle.  If it was in a movie, it has to be true, the internet told me so.



Will Turner's only fight as a swordsmith was partly fought with an iron poker. He was no longer a smith but a pirate before he went into anything resembling a battle. Even so, none of his swords that went into battle were his first, untested, or failed, which was your original premise. 

Bloom's character in Kingdom of Heaven was also a swordsmith turned knight; he didn't take an untested sword into battle either. 

Schwarzenegger's Conan was the son of a swordsmith; he tested the first sword he managed to get his hands on before fighting with it. 

Patinkin's Inigo Montoya was another son of a swordsmith; devoted his life to learning swords and how to use them before going to fight.

Whether it's a swordsmith turned pirate or crusader, or a son of a swordsmith seeking revenge, neither the blade nor the hand wielding it went into battle untested ... even in Hollywood.


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 27, 2012)

Cran said:


> Patinkin's Inigo Montoya was another son of a swordsmith; devoted his life to learning swords and how to use them before going to fight.



[OT]For those who like Patinkin's character from the movie, the original novel (_The Princess Bride) _has an excellent chapter showing the childhood of Inigo, growing up as the son of a master swordsmith, and the incident, and the subsequent ten years of training, which led to him becomming the greatest swordfighter in the world.

 It's a great part of the story that the movie simply didn't have time to include. The novel itself is all around terrific. One of my favorite adventure books.​[/OT]


----------



## Olly Buckle (Dec 27, 2012)

In Japan swords were tested on condemned criminals to see if they would slice right through, when they knew it was coming they would sometimes eat stones.


----------



## chipmonkrocks (Dec 27, 2012)

never throw anything away.  you can edit what you put down.  you can't edit what isn't there.


----------



## Lewdog (Dec 27, 2012)

Cran said:


> Will Turner's only fight as a swordsmith was partly fought with an iron poker. He was no longer a smith but a pirate before he went into anything resembling a battle. Even so, none of his swords that went into battle were his first, untested, or failed, which was your original premise.
> 
> Bloom's character in Kingdom of Heaven was also a swordsmith turned knight; he didn't take an untested sword into battle either.
> 
> ...



Didn't Samurai make their own swords?  Just like the car companies have shown, you don't always know something has a flaw until the flaw shows itself.  'Testing' a sword only tests the sword at the time, and not always the entire sword and every possible flaw.  How can you test your sword on an approaching of enemy on a horse in full armor, without actually being in that circumstance?


----------



## Olly Buckle (Dec 27, 2012)

> Didn't Samurai make their own swords?


No way, that was a specialist craft passed father to son through the generations. A Samuri sword is made from two blocks of metal welded and folded many times, one piece for hardness one for strength. when the blade is ground the layers can be seen as fine lines, like a fingerprint on the blade. Getting them all to weld and stick without destroying the temper is a tricky business. As I say they were tested on real flesh and bone, but the test was more of the sword's efficacy than for flaws, a good sword would cleave a tors from shoulder to waist with a single stroke. Master craftsmen don't produce flawed products on the whole.

However I think we are straying more than somewhat from the original post. When a major piece of writing is getting me bogged down I have been known to lift my spirits by writing a simple short story, there is usually some friend who will read a couple of pages and make a complimentary comment. It may not be any deep insight, or even totally sincere, but don't think too hard about it and it can be quite a lift.


----------



## allyson17white (Dec 27, 2012)

Oh my gosh I do that all the time but instead of throwing them out I just have a whole bunch of just started or unfinished stories laying around. (I have a tendency to get sidetracked, a lot.)


----------



## Olly Buckle (Dec 27, 2012)

Oh my gosh, Allyson, if you don't finish the 'shorts' how will you ever get there with your full length novel?


----------



## Lewdog (Dec 28, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> Oh my gosh, Allyson, if you don't finish the 'shorts' how will you ever get there with your full length novel?



Yeah I started a second project before finishing my first one.  I tried getting other people to work with me on my first one and got the cold shoulder all around.  Now I have my second short story started and all planned out, but have lost the push to finish it.  I have such a short attention span anymore.  I have a great idea for a voodoo short story that isn't really my style, and a great idea for a full length psychological thriller but not only do I not have the attention span and talent to do it, it's also not my style.  I feel like doing a full on Jocasta.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Dec 28, 2012)

Having 'My style' is one of my major problems, I will read something and think 'That's cool', then go away and write a ghost story, or a science fiction story, or a kids story, etc. etc. all different. My 'Published author' award is mainly a collection of them. I hope there is a 'voice' that gives them some unity, because in terms of subject they couldn't be more varied.


----------



## Lewdog (Dec 28, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> Having 'My style' is one of my major problems, I will read something and think 'That's cool', then go away and write a ghost story, or a science fiction story, or a kids story, etc. etc. all different. My 'Published author' award is mainly a collection of them. I hope there is a 'voice' that gives them some unity, because in terms of subject they couldn't be more varied.



Yes some people can write according to the moods they have.  My poetry is a lot like that.  I can write ones that are serious and many of my friends think are quite depressing.  Then I can write one about a toy truck.  You just never know.  When I write short stories, it has to be something I'm interested in.  I can't force myself to write something I don't care about.


----------



## allyson17white (Dec 28, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> Oh my gosh, Allyson, if you don't finish the 'shorts' how will you ever get there with your full length novel?



I know I have a real problem with getting sidetracked I am focusing on one pretty well though and it's taking on the looks of a book now but I'm just on chapter 7 only a little has happened and I don't know how it will end.


----------



## allyson17white (Dec 28, 2012)

Lewdog said:


> Yeah I started a second project before finishing my first one.  I tried getting other people to work with me on my first one and got the cold shoulder all around.  Now I have my second short story started and all planned out, but have lost the push to finish it.  I have such a short attention span anymore.  I have a great idea for a voodoo short story that isn't really my style, and a great idea for a full length psychological thriller but not only do I not have the attention span and talent to do it, it's also not my style.  I feel like doing a full on Jocasta.



I think you should try to finish one but I understand completely. I just can't stick to one thing. For me it's just that I'll start on something and then another good idea for a different story will pop into my head.


----------



## allyson17white (Dec 28, 2012)

"My style" That is such a hard thing I could write a story about almost anything (as long as it's fiction) but to choose a style impossible. Just the sheer amount of personalities I have could change they way I write like Lewdog said it depends on your mood. I do know that most of my writing is insightful with a deeper meaning and I like to connect stories to how I feel. I prefer action and excitement and a little mystery maybe a little romance but not a lot. If you have a name for all that then great but as far as I know just don't do what you don't do and wright about what you connect to or like in anyway.


----------



## Burlesk (Dec 28, 2012)

allyson17white said:


> "My style" That is such a hard thing I could write a story about almost anything (as long as it's fiction) but to choose a style impossible. Just the sheer amount of personalities I have could change they way I write like Lewdog said it depends on your mood. I do know that most of my writing is insightful with a deeper meaning and I like to connect stories to how I feel. I prefer action and excitement and a little mystery maybe a little romance but not a lot. If you have a name for all that then great but as far as I know just don't do what you don't do and wright about what you connect to or like in anyway.



Some writers choose a style, most probably don't; insofar as they have a distinct style, it grows naturally out of the combination of their personality, background and (perhaps most importantly) their literary/linguistic influences. That's how my style has come to me – gradually, as a result of consciously or unconsciously imitating other writers, each of whom left behind some trace of their style in mine. Which parts stuck has been determined, I suppose, by my own personality.

There have been well-known writers who have deliberately chosen a style. One who comes to mind is J. D. Salinger, whose style was lifted almost whole from Ring Lardner (he acknowledged the debt by name-checking him in _Catcher_).


----------



## Burlesk (Dec 28, 2012)

Addressing the OP...



MaitreyeeMAYHEM said:


> Hello, I'm new to this forum and I have a few questions for those who are more experienced in writing. I am my own worst critic. I have thrown out so many books I've started to write because i look at other authors and compare my work. I always find it hard starting out the chapter or using certain sentences. There are so many ways you can write a story but I want to make sure it flows together perfectly. I am trying not to compare myself and do the best I can but how does everyone else keep their spirits up?



Comparing yourself to other writers in this way is good, as long as it doesn't become debilitating. If you're throwing out _everything you write_, then something is probably going wrong somewhere. Either you are being excessively critical or you just aren't as good a writer as you want to be. If it's the latter, then you may be able to improve through thought and practice, or you may have to aim lower. Not all writers are equal.

On the other hand, if you're only throwing out some (or even most) of what you write, then you should keep your spirits up by focusing on the parts you keep – the parts that are as good as you want them to be. That's an achievement.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Dec 28, 2012)

It is only with a huge effort, and terrible misgivings, I throw anything away, why?

If I started writing in the first place it was because I had an idea that seemed worthwhile, because the writing is not up to the idea does not negate the original idea and the writing will remind me of it even if it is not up to my standards.

If I have re-written it it is always my intention to compare the two versions to see what I have done differently and if it has improved things, mind you I don't often get round to this.

Most things can be improved by editing, even if I can not see a way of editing it to the better now let it mull for a bit and I usually do.

Sometimes things seem too inconsequential to stand alone on their own merit, I find if I keep them for a bit I suddenly find a place for them to fit into something else and give it a bit more weight.

If none of the above apply I can always look back over it and think, "Well, I have improved some and written better stuff since then, not so bad after all."


----------



## Grape Juice Vampire (Dec 28, 2012)

As i have gone on writing my book and re-doing the awful parts (I'm halfway done with the first draft now though, yay!) the quality has improved, and my voice has begun to come through. I keep that in mind when i become discouraged and want to trash everything. I also find what i thought was really horrible and unfix-able at the time, is now completely fixable and useful. That part always makes me feel better, as it's proof of growth. Every word, whether bad or good, is a victory.


----------



## kitt.moss (Dec 31, 2012)

I know this feeling. Comparing myself to other writers and feeling absolutely hopeless, because I know I'll never be as good as they are.

What helps is the knowledge - the sure and certain knowledge - that I'm not as bad as I think I am. Knowing that gives me the confidence to keep on writing even when I think it's going nowhere, and to actually finish projects rather than throw them out.


----------



## Circadian (Dec 31, 2012)

Oh gosh, I cannot count the number of times I've started a story only to abandon it partway through.  Also, do any of you have the problem where no matter what you're writing, you can't help but feel like you're copying another author, even unintentionally, and you're worried that everybody's going to see it that way and you'll have to start over?  That happens to me a lot.

~Circe


----------



## Jamie (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm officially the slowest writer in the world. I've been writing all day today and do you know how much I've written? One page. Roughly 350 words.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm really pleased with each of those words and the order I've placed them in, but at this rate I shall still be writing this book when I'm in the ground.

I have no solution to this, by the way, I just wanted to tell someone. Thanks.


----------



## Circadian (Dec 31, 2012)

> I'm officially the slowest writer in the world. I've been writing all day today and do you know how much I've written? One page. Roughly 350 words.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong, I'm really pleased with each of those words and the order I've placed them in, but at this rate I shall still be writing this book when I'm in the ground.
> 
> I have no solution to this, by the way, I just wanted to tell someone. Thanks.



Hey, you're not the only one.  Many times, I've found myself typing out one sentence, zoning out for thirty minutes, then typing another sentence before zoning out again.  Typing half a sentence.  I call it "dribbling."  It is not fun.

~Circe


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi, Jamie.

I had the same problem until recently. I was writing and toiling to come up with only a few hundred words a day.

One of the solutions I found was using a distraction-free word processor. If you have a PC, you can use this one for free: http://they.misled.us/dark-room (Dark Room). It's a word processor that displays nothing but your text, on a black screen (it blacks out your entire screen, every inch of it.) Hitting escape lets you out of it.

I didn't like the font and color that is the default setting, so I changed it. You have the options to choose whatever font, size, and color you want (just hit escape, then go to the preferences tab. When you're set, go back to "fullscreen" in the drop menu on the top left).


----------



## Jamie (Dec 31, 2012)

Cheers Kyle, I'll give that a go.

Thing is, I'm not one of these people who can just write and write and write, just to get something down and get the story moving. I don't want to do that and then end up coming back to it, hating it, and having to edit page after page. So I tend to go over and over something until I'm happy with it, and only then can I move on.

I love my story and I love my characters, all of them. I want to get it told, but my god am I easily distracted. Thanks again.


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 31, 2012)

Okay. Yeah, I know how it goes. You're a perfectionist and you aim for quality, it's very understandable.

Hopefully that program helps, though! Give it a try and see if you like it. If not maybe there's another solution that can be found to help you. Best of luck! :encouragement:


----------



## Cran (Dec 31, 2012)

Jamie, I was like that until I learned the very valuable lesson that I carry around in my signature - 

_Nature abhors perfection ..._


----------



## MaitreyeeMAYHEM (Jan 1, 2013)

Should I post a chapter and have u all read? I need to add content and revise. I'm only at 24 chapters and a bit over 17,000 words. I'm stuck on what else to add.


----------



## MaitreyeeMAYHEM (Jan 1, 2013)

I joined RWA, I talked to my favorite author via twitter and that's helped her. They have local and online communities and have free story writing classes. The next one is having ur characters create the plot and how to put emotion in books. I think adding content is harder than taking away, I'm already lot on what else I should add.


----------



## MaitreyeeMAYHEM (Jan 1, 2013)

chipmonkrocks said:


> never throw anything away.  you can edit what you put down.  you can't edit what isn't there.



Ill remember that.


----------

