# opposing opinions, and how to not be offended



## Moonbeast32 (Feb 18, 2018)

How do you feel when you hear someone say, or see someone write, something you disagree with on a deep level? Do you ever feel attacked, even if the person who said it meant no aggression? Do you feel obligated to re-assert your own beliefs and ideologies? Do you ever get indignant with righteous furry, or do you just feel sad?

Our world is chock full of diverse ideologies and beliefs. It is inevitable that you will be exposed to some that deny your own. It is therefore unreasonable to react or feel the way I've described above.

Yet, I am so frequently guilty of getting into a mental siege mode. And seeing that my core values tend to be unpopular, it is shameful how often this happens to me.

I am asking for help here. Are there any here who have been challenged in this same way, and have since overcome it? Please speak up and share with me how you did it. I am so sick of feeling injured!


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## PiP (Feb 18, 2018)

> Moonbeast32 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you feel when you hear someone say, or see someone write, something you disagree with on a deep level? Do you ever feel attacked, even if the person who said it meant no aggression? Do you feel obligated to re-assert your own beliefs and ideologies? Do you ever get indignant with righteous furry, or do you just feel sad?
> ...


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 18, 2018)

I don't always feel attacked when someone attacks me or my values, I am more likely to think they got it wrong, but then I have very high, probably delusionally high, feelings of self worth and self confidence. Try thinking 'Poor fellow, he's got it all wrong, how can I help him?'. They will hate you for it more often than not, but what does that matter if you know they are wrong to


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## -xXx- (Feb 18, 2018)

hi m,

i'm an extreme introvert.
for me extroversion skills must be mastered
as a matter of survival.

i was raised to accept disenfranchised grief,
and manipulative entanglement.
one of the techniques i employ during
verbal assault from another (insistence on acceptance)
is "flow through".
it is an approach that facilitates an attempt
to separate emotional intensity from any information
gleaned from/about the source of delivery.

for me, searching for some value/insight
is important.
if i am agitated, i reexamine myself for
greater insight.

in my youth, i embraced targeted information
gathering to learn who, when and how i could
best avoid inevitable self-damage.

i find it helpful to remember i am inconsequental
in terms of everything-forever, but can be a critical
influence in specific-time-place.

i find there are many people that come to uncertainty
during their lives.
listening.
thinking.
presenting only when a seeker conveys openness,
and as appears to be timely for them
is a helpful framework for me.
meaningful change is seldom immediate,
complete and continual.

hope some of that holds meaning for you,
 m
ps walking/physical activity is helpful for me
when diffusing my body's response during
my mind/heart processing time.


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## dither (Feb 18, 2018)

A brilliant response  xXx and very much appreciated.


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## sas (Feb 18, 2018)

xXx....

I found this exceptional:

i find it helpful to remember i am inconsequental
in terms of everything-forever, but can be a critical
influence in specific-time-place.

.


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## Kevin (Feb 18, 2018)

Assuming I am not misinterpreting, and /or assuming the person is actually making a knowingly prejudicial statement... How do I not feel injured? 
First off, statements I've heard before often just get ignored as parroted claptrap. There's a lot of that. People say things, unsubstantiated, broad-brush statements as if they are proven facts. I just look at those as ignorant statements. There is a general tendency for people to classify things , to put things into categories, to judge them this way or that and then put them into a margined, four-sided 'finality' box. I'm not sure if there's a comfort there or a need , but, it is what it is. Prejudging and placing in boxes seems to help them. Whatever, it's what they do. And.. what the hell: I do it too. 

...Which gets to way-of-dealing or seeing-it 'two': their issue/my issue. Basically, it is my acceptance or re-afirmation of the fact that neither I , nor anyone else on this planet is perfect, and therefor whatever comes out our mouths ( in writing)is questionable, motives, actions, way of thinking, way of not thinking, you name it - are all covered by this one. 

Now then, this also means that a full frontal assault may just get a reaction from me. I ain't Jesusand I don't turn the other cheek. I take pleasure in that sometimes, like slapping a bully back. Standing up for myself was something I had to learn how to do from when I was a little kid. You see,not everyone was as nice as me, and sometimes their selfishness came out to my detriment. I had to learn how to deal. A good smack-back seemed to be the best, most effective solution; stopped bullies right in their acts. As an adult I still run into that.  That's only if I care. Sometimes I don't.


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## ArianSpirit (Feb 18, 2018)

Speaking just from me I jumped in without really knowing anyone here or their work. Lesson learned! The more familiar I get with my fellow poets, writers, etc. I try to relate their words to a personal experience which allows them a peek into my thought processes as well as the impact and admiration personally of their work. Everyone owns their own words and it feels that I need to compliment what I feel is strong and suggest another POV reiterating the fact suggestions are just that. Take or leave. Possibly suggestions inspire new words or concepts to help set more creative juices to flow for the owner of their works.

~A


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## andrewclunn (Feb 18, 2018)

I honestly believe I am far better informed, open minded, and intelligent than most other people.  I'm also willing to admit personally and publicly when I'm not informed on a topic, or when I've made an error or been shown to be wrong on something.  Furthermore, I explain why I hold a position when discussing a topic.  For these reasons I am constantly frustrated by the dumb-as-dirt opinions I hear.  Perhaps the most frustrating however are the sort who are condescending and think themselves enlightening because they can regurgitate the standard politically correct mainstream views expressed by actors, outdated news sources (see papers), academia, and "respectable" politicians.  Congratulations on having zero independent thoughts and being proud of it.


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## Sam (Feb 19, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> How do you feel when you hear someone say, or see someone write, something you disagree with on a deep level? Do you ever feel attacked, even if the person who said it meant no aggression? Do you feel obligated to re-assert your own beliefs and ideologies? Do you ever get indignant with righteous furry, or do you just feel sad?
> 
> Our world is chock full of diverse ideologies and beliefs. It is inevitable that you will be exposed to some that deny your own. It is therefore unreasonable to react or feel the way I've described above.
> 
> ...



Injured by what -- words? 

My generation was taught about sticks and stones being able to break our bones, but words never being able to hurt us. It seems that the next generation has gone completely the opposite and routinely bans anything that offends their fragile minds. 

I'm not trying to douse the fire with petrol here, but there's a fundamental weakness in young minds today. When I went to university, everything I ever believed to be true was ripped to shreds and countless opposing opinions were proferred by my lecturers and professors. I came out of university with more knowledge, more understanding, than what I had going in. Now, students are isolated in a huge bubble and if they don't like what someone is saying, they can run off to a safe space. 

Learning to understand opposing opinions will make you a better human being. The first thing I was taught in university was to avoid confirmation bias and look at both sides of an argument. Now, if you told a student to do that, they'd throw the toys out of the pram.


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

Wow... Narcissistic much?


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> How do you feel when you hear someone say, or see someone write, something you disagree with on a deep level? Do you ever feel attacked, even if the person who said it meant no aggression? Do you feel obligated to re-assert your own beliefs and ideologies? Do you ever get indignant with righteous furry, or do you just feel sad?
> 
> Our world is chock full of diverse ideologies and beliefs. It is inevitable that you will be exposed to some that deny your own. It is therefore unreasonable to react or feel the way I've described above.
> 
> ...



Feeling is a natural part of being human, being upset by something that someone has said is a part of that. This idea that the answer to differences in opinion or beliefs is not to feel is just denying one's humanity because at the end of the day one can't not feel. So the question isn't one of how not to feel those emotions but rather how do you react to those emotions in the moment, how do you act towards the person, how do you conduct yourself when challenged?


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## bdcharles (Feb 20, 2018)

When I'd have these sorts of discussions, where people are of polarised viewpoints, it would often seem to me that there was something fundamentally wrong with the conversation, something that wasn't being fully addressed, but I never knew what it was. People would vehemently argue for one thing or another, and often their points chimed with me. That wouldn't be so bad if their points weren't so diametrically opposed. How could I support one position and then doublethink my way into another? What was going on?

It struck me after some good time struggling with this that people's logical and rational understanding of a situation only goes so far. Beyond that it is largely emotional and personal, falling back onto a rhetoric that belies a lizard-brain desire to survive and thrive, and to hell with the truth of the matter. If someone feels cheated by a capitalist system, or immigration, or whatever, that will underpin their argument. Their points, while dramatically convincing and quite possibly not without value in some limited context, will only address half the story. Understanding that mechanism, and realising that people aren't wholly rational, and furthermore getting my head around the notion that this may be a beneficial state in some particular cases, and certainly one that has got us to the top of the food chain if not fully representative of reality at large, sealed the deal.

So in tl;dr - understanding that humans are not fully reason-oriented and accepting the reasons for that, helped me see the wider picture of why people are how they are.


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## Sam (Feb 20, 2018)

Xenization said:


> Wow... Narcissistic much?



No, realistic. 

You more than likely belong to the generation I'm speaking of, so thanks for proving my point.


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## H.Brown (Feb 20, 2018)

Sam said:


> Injured by what -- words?
> 
> My generation was taught about sticks and stones being able to break our bones, but words never being able to hurt us. It seems that the next generation has gone completely the opposite and routinely bans anything that offends their fragile minds.
> 
> ...




I also had a similar upbringing Sam about sticks and stones...and again when I recently went to university I was also challenged to accept opposing views. Difference of opinion is natural, not everyone thinks the same as the next person. Once you can accept difference of opinion, you no longer have anything to be offended over.

For example I have friends that are religious, they believe in God, where I however don't have any religious inclinations. Yet we don't fall out or get offended by each other's choices.

I question you this, why do you get offended or angry by someone else being different and thinking differently?


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## sas (Feb 20, 2018)

Xenization said:


> Wow... Narcissistic much?



I think Sam got who you responded to wrong. Hmmm. Wonder who you meant?


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## Phil Istine (Feb 20, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> How do you feel when you hear someone say, or see someone write, something you disagree with on a deep level? Do you ever feel attacked, even if the person who said it meant no aggression? Do you feel obligated to re-assert your own beliefs and ideologies? Do you ever get indignant with righteous furry, or do you just feel sad?
> 
> Our world is chock full of diverse ideologies and beliefs. It is inevitable that you will be exposed to some that deny your own. It is therefore unreasonable to react or feel the way I've described above.
> 
> ...



I try to remember that everyone has the right to be wrong 
My responses can vary and depend upon a number of different things.
If someone knocks on my door and attempts to convert me to one of the god squad, I don't feel particularly sympathetic; not only have they invaded my physical space, they have also tried to invade my head space.  Reactions may vary from "no thanks" to "eff off".
At the other end of the scale (in my mind, anyway), if someone wrote a delightful poem about something with which I totally disagreed, I am capable of putting that aside when assessing artistic merit.  I can point to assonance, alliteration, imagery, onomatopoeia usage etc. without concerning myself about the writer's personal beliefs.  Of course, that assumes that the writer is writing from their own viewpoint - they may not be. I learned a harsh lesson about that some time ago.  I attempted to write in the voice of a malevolent racist, but didn't have the skill to carry it off.  Still, what would writing be without taking the occasional risk? (rhetorical).


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

Sam said:


> No, realistic.
> 
> You more than likely belong to the generation I'm speaking of, so thanks for proving my point.



What makes you think I was just talking about you? 

P.S. Thank you for proving my point.


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

sas said:


> I think Sam got who you responded to wrong. Hmmm. Wonder who you meant?



Oh, there were a number of posts that had all the signs of narcissistic thinking shining through. So my comment was a general one to many, not just Sam, who oddly proved my point :/ that it is how you react to how you feel that matters. Personal conduct is important, it is what people see and what the judge you by!


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## andrewclunn (Feb 20, 2018)

If your gonna call out somebody, do it by name.  Otherwise your both being insulting AND not making any actual point.


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## Firemajic (Feb 20, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> How do you feel when you hear someone say, or see someone write, something you disagree with on a deep level? Do you ever feel attacked, even if the person who said it meant no aggression? Do you feel obligated to re-assert your own beliefs and ideologies? Do you ever get indignant with righteous furry, or do you just feel sad?
> 
> Our world is chock full of diverse ideologies and beliefs. It is inevitable that you will be exposed to some that deny your own. It is therefore unreasonable to react or feel the way I've described above.
> 
> ...




Maturity ..... confidence in the things you believe in.... and tolerance.... I believe that when someone becomes angry, when exposed to a new or different and conflicting POV, belief or ideology... the anger comes from fear... fear that you may be forced to examine the "why" ... and just maybe your beliefs are not founded on facts, maybe your beliefs were rooted in the soil of your parents, and their parents... if one is confident in their beliefs, then it is easy to listen with an open mind and walk away, unscathed.... because why? You are confident, mature and tolerant..... jmo.... and does not apply when dealing with blatant stupidity


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## Sam (Feb 20, 2018)

Xenization said:


> Oh, there were a number of posts that had all the signs of narcissistic thinking shining through. So my comment was a general one to many, not just Sam, who oddly proved my point :/ that it is how you react to how you feel that matters. Personal conduct is important, it is what people see and what the judge you by!



Here's the thing: you don't know shit about my personal conduct. I could be the epitome of politeness, but what I am for sure is someone who doesn't get offended by _words _and _opinions. _

To those who do: sorry, but you need to burst the bubble and come into the real world. This forum is a prime example of differing opinions spread across a wide and large contingent of people, from all walks of life. If you can't accept someone else's opinion without being 'injured' by it, you need to work on yourself most ricky tick. 

If you think that makes me narcissistic, fair enough.


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## Birb (Feb 20, 2018)

I love this thread, it's a real nice question. Personally, I love speaking with others about their personal opinions and ideologies. I dont ever really feel threatened by it ever, but I have definitely entered the "mental siege mode"  myself. What i think it comes down to is people dont like to be proved wrong......and honestly I don't think anyone will ever truly "overcome" the feeling. 

The only thing is, my respect for someone's opinion has to be earned. It's not hard to earn it really, you just need to be as respectful of my stance as I am of yours. Most of my friends are people who disagree with me on many things, makes interesting conversation. 

For me at least, this world isnt a black and white/right and wrong/good and bad one. It's one with many different shades and paths that lead to many different outcomes. The one I choose to follow may or may not be any more correct than the next person's. Of course there are some things that obviously don't work or are blatantly false, but that doesnt extend to everything. Idk, just my thoughts.


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

andrewclunn said:


> If your gonna call out somebody, do it by name. Otherwise your both being insulting AND not making any actual point.



I thought I made a perfectly valid *opinion*. You and two others posts showed some of the classic signs of narcissism - 

narcissism
noun

*excessive interest in or admiration of oneself* and one's physical appearance.

PSYCHOLOGY
*extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents *and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type. 



Sam said:


> Here's the thing: you don't know shit about my personal conduct. I could be the epitome of politeness, but what I am for sure is someone who doesn't get offended by _words _and _opinions. _
> 
> To those who do: sorry, but you need to burst the bubble and come into the real world. This forum is a prime example of differing opinions spread across a wide and large contingent of people, from all walks of life. If you can't accept someone else's opinion without being 'injured' by it, you need to work on yourself most ricky tick.
> 
> If you think that makes me narcissistic, fair enough.



Originally my comment didn't point to you, but the fact that you THOUGHT that it did shows that yes, you are quite possibly narcissistic. Although again, I repeat, that was not my first impression of you. Just merely one formed from your instant thought that my comment was directed at you. 

As for your conduct, I was right in my comment to Sas, what you reacted to wasn't even originally aimed at you yet you went on the personal attack like a jockey at the starting gate who really needs that cash prize to pay off his student loans and in doing so proved that it isn't how we feel that matters it is how we react in the moment and heat of those feelings. 

Yes, you might normally in you RL be the very definition of a modern gentleman but here, now, reacting to me, you are not showing those colours now are you? And that is the point, I have nothing else to judge you on, so how you answer is always going to be the thing that people see, hear and read and yes form opinions about you with. So, be aware. That is all I was saying in my original comment to Moonbeast and then to Sas and I honestly thank you for providing an excellent example of what I meant.


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## H.Brown (Feb 20, 2018)

Xenization said:


> Originally my comment didn't point to you, but the fact that you THOUGHT that it did shows that yes, you are quite possibly narcissistic. Although again, I repeat, that was not my first impression of you. Just merely one formed from your instant thought that my comment was directed at you.



To be fair even though it wasn't namely aimed at Sam, it did come right after his comment so it is easy to see why he believe it to be aimed at himself, I also made the same connection as him.

And I pose this question, aren't all of us as writers narcissistic? We each believe our own writing to be grand enough to be published one day, we each feel that our own opinion matters in some way another. So are all writers narcissists in some fashion?


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

H.Brown said:


> And I pose this question, aren't all of us as writers narcissistic? We each believe our own writing to be grand enough to be published one day, we each feel that our own opinion matters in some way another. So are all writers narcissists in some fashion?




Not necessarily. Having the goal of being published is not narcissistic, it is simply a goal to achieve through hard work and effort. Because let's be honest, good writing isn't the result of pure talent, but rather the outcome of years of hard work and study. You would not call someone who has studied for years to finally become a (put career of choice), a narcissist, would you?


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## H.Brown (Feb 20, 2018)

Xenization said:


> Not necessarily. Having the goal of being published is not narcissistic, it is simply a goal to achieve through hard work and effort. Because let's be honest, good writing isn't the result of pure talent, but rather the outcome of years of hard work and study. You would not call someone who has studied for years to finally become a (put career of choice), a narcissist, would you?



No I wouldn't but when you use: PSYCHOLOGY: *extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type. * This could then be applied to all writers? 

And thus could being confident in your own views be a product of hard work and study also, and that if another construes a comment made by another as pertaining to themselves, be seen as a difference of opinion instead of being seen as narcissistic?


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## Birb (Feb 20, 2018)

I saw who you were originally speaking of, but honestly was that really necessary? I will look back to my post, I will respect your opinion if you respect mine. I guess I should add onto that and say "Other people's" as well.

Sure, what was being said could possibly be labeled as narcissistic, but who are you to point that out? Not only is it rude, and fairly disrespectful, but (and I know this is somewhat hypocritical given my last point) it's somewhat childish.

This is a thread about what to do when someone's opinions (including opinions of themselves) conflict or clash with another's. I think that was a prime example of what not to do when you see something you don't agree with.


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

H.Brown said:


> No I wouldn't but when you use: PSYCHOLOGY: *extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type. *This could then be applied to all writers?
> 
> And thus could being confident in your own views be a product of hard work and study also, and that if another construes a comment made by another as pertaining to themselves, be seen as a difference of opinion instead of being seen as narcissistic?



You must really not think much about your fellow writers to link (PSYCHOLOGY: *extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type. *This could then be applied to all writers?) to all writers. I have spent a lot of time amongst and talking to other writers as I honestly have to say that for the most part, they are very far from any sort of narcissistic behaviour. 

No, sorry but there is confidence and then there is saying -

1. You know more and think everyone who has a different opinion lacks knowledge of the subject and that it is your job to educate them in the right way of thinking. 

2. The other person is just ignorant

3. And my favourite response, I am just better than everyone else. 

Simply put there is a difference between having the knowledge and telling everyone you have it and are better than them because of it. 

It can also be said that "I" is a personal pronoun.  




Birb said:


> I saw who you were originally speaking of, but honestly was that really necessary? I will look back to my post, I will respect your opinion if you respect mine. I guess I should add onto that and say "Other people's" as well.
> 
> Sure, what was being said could possibly be labeled as narcissistic, but who are you to point that out? Not only is it rude, and fairly disrespectful, but (and I know this is somewhat hypocritical given my last point) it's somewhat childish.
> 
> This is a thread about what to do when someone's opinions (including opinions of themselves) conflict or clash with another's. I think that was a prime example of what not to do when you see something you don't agree with.



Is this directed at me or H.Brown?


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## H.Brown (Feb 20, 2018)

Xenization said:


> You must really not think much about your fellow writers to link (PSYCHOLOGY: *extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a personality type. *This could then be applied to all writers?) to all writers. I have spent a lot of time amongst and talking to other writers as I honestly have to say that for the most part, they are very far from any sort of narcissistic behaviour.



I was just discussing the topic you raised in view of how I perceived that certain part of the quote, you used. I would like to agree that I do not think all writers are narcissistic, but if you go on the literal quote then you may as well have been calling all writers-or anyone that thinks grandiosely about their own talents-a narcissist. (This is only my opinion and meant no disrespect to anyone, let alone any fellow writers.)



Xenization said:


> No, sorry but there is confidence and then there is saying -
> 
> 1. You know more and think everyone who has a different opinion lacks knowledge of the subject and that it is your job to educate them in the right way of thinking.
> 
> ...



And yet no-one has said any of this. I'm now slightly confused.


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## Xenization (Feb 20, 2018)

H.Brown said:


> I was just discussing the topic you raised in view of how I perceived that certain part of the quote, you used. I would like to agree that I do not think all writers are narcissistic, but if you go on the literal quote then you may as well have been calling all writers-or anyone that thinks grandiosely about their own talents-a narcissist. (This is only my opinion and meant no disrespect to anyone, let alone any fellow writers.)



What??? I think the added "grandiosely" puts its own caveat on what you have said above. Knowing that you have knowledge or skill does not automatically make you a narcissist, stating that you do in certain ways or thinking that you have more skill and knowledge than you do does. There is a whole world of difference. 





H.Brown said:


> And yet no-one has said any of this. I'm now slightly confused.



I was paraphrasing instead of actually quoting but three people said that in pretty much so many words on the first page of this thread...


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## H.Brown (Feb 20, 2018)

Xenization said:


> Knowing that you have knowledge or skill does not automatically make you a narcissist,



I never said it did Xen.



Xenization said:


> stating that you do in certain ways or thinking that you have more skill and knowledge than you do does. There is a whole world of difference.



I wouldn't say that was particularly narcissistic, tbh, just another person's view.

Lets get this thread back on track of the Op's original question, how does anyone else respond to opposing opinions?


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## Birb (Feb 20, 2018)

who else called anybody narcissistic


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## Winston (Feb 20, 2018)

If you wish not to offend, whatever I would tell you, do the opposite.


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## andrewclunn (Feb 20, 2018)

My apologies Xenization.  I didn't realize that you had a degree in armchair psychology.  Please, tell us more about ourselves.  We're narcissists after all, so we must love it.


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## Sam (Feb 20, 2018)

You're missing the point, everyone. 

I don't particularly care whether he calls me a narcissist or not. It's his opinion, and as I've tried to make abundantly clear -- I don't give a rat's ass about people sharing their opinion of things, even me. 

It's part of being a well-adjusted human being. Opinions are like arseholes -- everyone has one and everyone's entitled to one. Stop being offended about people expressing theirs, and you might find yourself growing as a person. All part of being an adult.


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## H.Brown (Feb 20, 2018)

Sam said:


> You're missing the point, everyone.
> 
> I don't particularly care whether he calls me a narcissist or not. It's his opinion, and as I've tried to make abundantly clear -- I don't give a rat's ass about people sharing their opinion of things, even me.
> 
> It's part of being a well-adjusted human being. Opinions are like arseholes -- everyone has one and everyone's entitled to one. Stop being offended about people expressing theirs, and you might find yourself growing as a person. All part of being an adult.



I agree Sam.


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## Kevin (Feb 20, 2018)

The op asked, and members answered. Some, however, did not discuss the efficacy of the hows, but replied with critisisms of members and their answers. Narcism was mentioned. That's about focus on oneself over and above others. Makes one think.


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## Xenization (Feb 21, 2018)

The fact is that there are some things that are not ok to say and it is imperative that someone says "oi" in some form when a person or persons oversteps that line. And in no way is saying that anyone who disagrees with you must be ignorant and uneducated ok. It shows a level of self-absorption, closed-mindedness and narcissism that needed to be called out. So I called it what it was because there is no benefit in tip-toeing around the issue.


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## H.Brown (Feb 21, 2018)

​Enough. Lets have this thread back on track guys and agree to disagree. (Forum Moderator.)


So who else has any ideas on how to avoid being offended by someone else's differing view?


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## Jack of all trades (Feb 21, 2018)

Words can hurt, and sometimes they are intended to inflict pain.

You can't control the words hurled in your direction. But you can control your response. Sometimes it's a good idea to hang around, and sometimes it's better to walk away.

The important thing, if you are going to debate a point, is to do so for the right reason. Changing the other person won't work. Change comes from within. Presenting an alternate view for the benefit of those who are undecided on the issue is reasonable. And when you keep that as your focus, the words feel a little less hurtful. 

Most of the time, I think, folks feel offended when they feel threatened, when it seems the other person is trying to control them. (A grammatically poor sentence, but I hope the message is clear.)

Actually, the sticks and stones saying would probably be labeled "belittling" the feelings of the other person.


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## andrewclunn (Feb 21, 2018)

You could be offended because you're personally insulted.  You could also be offended because you implicitly believe that certain views violate social norms that you feel you must self-righteously defend.  One of these is called, "Standing up for yourself."  The other is called, "Being butt hurt."  Learn to know the difference and you can quickly work to eliminate a good portion of your knee jerk reactions to offense by identifying when the problem lies with you.


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## Jack of all trades (Feb 21, 2018)

In all exchanges between two people, responsibility for good communication lies with both sides. It's like a bridge. One person maintains one half of the bridge, the other one maintains the other half. Dumping all the blame, and responsibility, on one person is unwise. Rarely is it ever true that only one is the cause of the problem. Besides, you can't control the other person, only yourself. Starting with how you contributed to the problem and identifying steps you can take to resolve it and prevent further difficulties is generally more effective than blaming the other person.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 21, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> In all exchanges between two people, responsibility for good communication lies with both sides. It's like a bridge. One person maintains one half of the bridge, the other one maintains the other half. Dumping all the blame, and responsibility, on one person is unwise. Rarely is it ever true that only one is the cause of the problem. Besides, you can't control the other person, only yourself. Starting with how you contributed to the problem and identifying steps you can take to resolve it and prevent further difficulties is generally more effective than blaming the other person.



When people start with absolutes it always makes me try to think of exceptions, like not  all exchanges are responsible, in fact some are not responsible in any way, and very little communication takes place sometimes.

That aside,  whilst the observation about the co-operative effort over the bridge appears sound in the experimentalworld it would appear not  to be the basis for human behaviour. Some one set up a video game with the aim of co-operatively delivering lorry loads along a route that contained a narrow section with no marked priority. They found that, inevitably, one or the other player would percieve a deliberate blocking of him by the other player and take retaliatory action. What happened then varied, but that bit always happened at some point despite it being entirely anti the ethos of the game.


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## Jack of all trades (Feb 21, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> When people start with absolutes it always makes me try to think of exceptions, like not  all exchanges are responsible, in fact some are not responsible in any way, and very little communication takes place sometimes.
> 
> That aside,  whilst the observation about the co-operative effort over the bridge appears sound in the experimentalworld it would appear not  to be the basis for human behaviour. Some one set up a video game with the aim of co-operatively delivering lorry loads along a route that contained a narrow section with no marked priority. They found that,
> 
> inevitably, one or the other player would percieve a deliberate blocking of him by the other player and take retaliatory action. What happened then varied, but that bit always happened at some point despite it being entirely anti the ethos of the game.



You have, I believe quite unintentionally, helped to demonstrate my point. Thank you.


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## Moonbeast32 (Feb 21, 2018)

Wow. I left this thread alone for a few days. It has since matured and ripened like a tangy cheese. Can't wait to read through everyone's responses!


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## H.Brown (Feb 21, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> Wow. I left this thread alone for a few days. It has since matured and ripened like a tangy cheese. Can't wait to read through everyone's responses!




That tends to happen around these parts Moonbeast. Especially when we are posed with such a good question to answer, so thank you for providing us with such a sintilating topic.


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## RhythmOvPain (Feb 21, 2018)

I'm starting to get tired of people around here trying to purposely start shit they may not be equipped to finish (or potentially handle).

To my knowledge, this is a place of learning, not a fight club.

Also, if you don't want to be offended, then ffs, DO NOT offend me. I'll teach you the meaning of offensive REAL fking quick.


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## Moonbeast32 (Feb 21, 2018)

well I've skimmed through a few pages so far, and I have yet to draft responses to my favorite posts. But reading the posts in between the meaningful ones; I don't know whether to facepalm, or laugh. In some strange way, this silly debate contributes to the topic of this thread: not because of anything anyone has said of course, but by virtue of its very existence.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 21, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> You have, I believe quite unintentionally, helped to demonstrate my point. Thank you.



Well, taking steps  to resolve things does seem logical,but it is not what people  do, they consistently blame others. Someways it might be more  productive to look at what actually happens than at a theoretical solution which might be productive if it happened, but never did. What is it about blaming others that is so attractive?


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## Moonbeast32 (Feb 21, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> What is it about blaming others that is so attractive?



While most people would say they do it to shift the blame from themselves to other people, I feel differently. I believe that the natural human finds carnal pleasure in playing judge. Something about it causes the mind to experience an illusionary sensation like an increase in power or strength.

I could be wrong, but that's how it feels to me, and I am my only reference.


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## bdcharles (Feb 21, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> While most people would say they do it to shift the blame from themselves to other people, I feel differently. I believe that the natural human finds carnal pleasure in playing judge. Something about it causes the mind to experience an illusionary sensation like an increase in power or strength.
> 
> I could be wrong, but that's how it feels to me, and I am my only reference.



For me, it's just fear of being found out.  But seriously, it is slightly worrying the way that, when faced with a wrongdoing, my mind snakes around the corners of the problem, trying to find a way I can subtly suggest that someone else *may* have done it (whatever "it" is). I have to force myself to take responsibility for my faults in a Sisyphean effort to be a good person. It's exhausting.


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## H.Brown (Feb 21, 2018)

I'm one of those that if in the wrong, will happily hold my hands up and say sorry. However if I think I'm in the right I'll argue till the cows come home, but blaming it on someone else, that's low in my opinion but everyone is different. I'm believe it is better to learn from your own mistakes.


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## TuesdayEve (Feb 22, 2018)

Sometimes it’s a process to reach the point of honesty.
Sometimes it’s a choice, sometimes inherent. And how
far is the choice willing to go...is it character or fear
making the decision to be honest....at that moment. 
Sometimes it’s just a kids game...what can I get away 
with...
Maturity would say own it....or is that just me talkin’?


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## QuirkyasCrow (Feb 24, 2018)

> How do you feel when you hear someone say, or see someone write,  something you disagree with on a deep level? Do you ever feel attacked,  even if the person who said it meant no aggression? Do you feel  obligated to re-assert your own beliefs and ideologies? Do you ever get  indignant with righteous furry, or do you just feel sad?
> 
> Our world is chock full of diverse ideologies and beliefs. It is  inevitable that you will be exposed to some that deny your own. It is  therefore unreasonable to react or feel the way I've described above.
> 
> ...



  I used to want to 'convince' others to conform to my way of thinking or beliefs quite a bit. Especially in my younger years. What I found for myself personally that it really was about my doubts. I was looking outside myself for validation of my beliefs, and began to realize that I doubted because they didn't really hold water. Most of my beliefs were taught to me from those outside of myself. When I started really introspecting and evaluating what my core beliefs were, I stopped feeling the need to convince others or push my ideas and ideals on others. Sure now and then there are still some things I am quite adamant and passionate about, and I will give my opinions and thoughts but when I realize the other has started to close their mind to a different perspective I generally drop it. It is not my place nor my job to mold another into my way of life. 

Its possible when you are truly satisfied with your own beliefs, and don't doubt them at all but can state them with peace and strength of character, it will naturally allow you to stop feeling offended and actually find the it a bit amusing that others wish to bend you to their will. (the exception may be politics, because its very scary to think the masses can make or break what freedom of choice you have. Though in general fight for the freedom of choice and you are on the winning side. Oddly enough that puts you on all sides of the fence. lol) 

Though another tip is when the word "you" is bantered about, stop and check often to make sure the other person isn't using it as a generalization in their speech and directed at you personally. "You" has become a way of generalizing rather than a specific and often creates many disagreements when there didn't need to be any. As how it is interpreted can make or break the direction of an argument. You makes things personal.


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