# Honesty and Commitment



## Robert (Jun 16, 2010)

How often is it that the advice we offer, solicited or unsolicited, is exactly the words of wisdom we should be listening to ourselves?
            For example… I have been musing here this morning upon solid principles of a good relationship… Honesty and Commitment.  I have been actively encouraging these principles for nearly twenty years… and yet these are the exact elements that have challenged me for the past little while.  Elements that have simultaneously saved and cost me everything I have ever known and loved.
            Honesty and Commitment.
            I would have never thought that such rudimentary and straight forward principles could become so obscured in self justification.  There are so many shades of grey between black and white.
            We are honest… if.
            We will commit… until.
            Truth is, honesty and commitment are not “if” and “until” propositions.  They are the elements of stability we all seek for in life.  Something to count on.  And although there are manifestations of grey and each situation must be judged on it’s merit, still “honesty” is “honesty” and “commitment” is “commitment”.
            These are quite often the elements that keep chaos at bay.  The elements that preserve our sanity.  The elements that facilitate happiness.
            Like it or not… they are elements of life that are necessary to the health and well-being of society.
            Every day living dictates the use of the shades of grey in life.  But it should be the “exception”… not the “rule”.
            It should never be an excuse to be less than we really are.


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## JosephB (Jun 16, 2010)

> It should never be an excuse to be less than we really are.



If you always operate in the gray areas, if you're less than honest, if you can't commit -- that _is_ who you are. Perhaps you mean who we can or should be.


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## Reese (Jun 17, 2010)

You're right. Commitments are often things that keep "chaos at bay." But no, they are not things that facilitate happiness.

Shades of grey are not the exception, often they are the rule, especially in relationships.

If you find yourself on such a precipice, you should tell us here exactly what brought you to this place.


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## JosephB (Jun 17, 2010)

Reese said:


> You're right. Commitments are often things that keep "chaos at bay." But no, they are not things that facilitate happiness.



How do you figure that? My marriage is based on a mutual commitment and it has led to great deal of happiness. Commitments provide a type of stability and foster trust -- which to me is the foundation of lasting, and very often, happy relationships.



Reese said:


> Shades of grey are not the exception, often they are the rule, especially in relationships.



To me, there is very little room for gray areas in relationships. Aside from the occasional answers we give when asked questions like "do I look fat in this?" --  honesty is really the best policy. I've fudged on minor things -- and it's come back to haunt me. Even small lies, omissions or evasions can erode trust. As far as commitments are concerned -- either you make them or you don't. What are the gray areas?


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## Reese (Jun 17, 2010)

Relationships are complicated. There is always a level of guesswork, and actual work, involved. Therefore, there can be grey-areas.

The question is WHAT keeps you committed. Is being honest so hard that it requires its own prose? If so, that is another matter.

The question is what keeps a person committed.

"They are the elements of stability we all seek for in life."

Not everyone seeks "stability in life." Some people actually seek "de-stabilization." Don't assume to preach to the reader what you believe makes you happy.


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## JosephB (Jun 17, 2010)

> Relationships are complicated. There is always a level of guesswork, and actual work, involved. Therefore, there can be grey-areas.


There's a good bit of work. The work usually involves keeping the lines of communication open -- and that includes being honest. And if you do a good job of it -- guess what? You can all but eliminate the guesswork -- and those all those gray areas. They aren't something you have to accept.



> Not everyone seeks "stability in life." Some people actually seek "de-stabilization." Don't assume to preach to the reader what you believe makes you happy.


The OP does a fair amount of generalizing -- but it's a pretty safe bet to assume he's not aiming this at a reader who is seeking destabilization. It's about  solid relationships and destabilization is counter to that -- wouldn't you say? It's more about targeting a specific reader rather than "preaching" to people to whom the message doesn't apply.

Let's say I'm thumbing through my local paper and I come across our OP's musings -- and I'm an asexual hermit. Is he preaching to me? Not really. I'm just going to thumb right past it to the sports section.


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## The Backward OX (Jun 18, 2010)

Reese said:


> Some people actually seek "de-stabilization."


 
What are your qualifications to be making this assertion?


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## Reese (Jun 18, 2010)

"The work usually involves keeping the lines of communication open -- and that includes being honest."

Just because a person keeps the lines of communication open...doesn't mean they are being honest.

"It's more about targeting a specific reader rather than "preaching" to people to whom the message doesn't apply."

Oh really, since I don't subscribe, then I don't apply?

I think a writer should "openly-subsribe" to any type of reader.

"The work usually involves keeping the lines of communication open -- and that includes being honest. And if you do a good job of it -- guess what? You can all but eliminate the guesswork -- and those all those gray areas."

Perhaps you're right. But even if I was SUPER honest...isn't there some level of the subjectivity there? What is honest? Telling the other person everything?


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## JosephB (Jun 18, 2010)

Reese said:


> Just because a person keeps the lines of communication open...doesn't mean they are being honest.


 You don’t seem to be getting this. The lines of commutation aren't open unless you're being honest.




> Oh really, since I don't subscribe, then I don't apply?
> 
> I think a writer should "openly-subsribe" to any type of reader.


This thread is in non-fiction. If I come across an article on automobile repair, I’m not going to read it if I don’t have a car. It doesn't have to appeal to "any type of reader." No writing does.
 



> Perhaps you're right. But even if I was SUPER honest...isn't there some level of the subjectivity there? What is honest? Telling the other person everything?


 Yes. Pretty much. The more my wife and I reveal to each other, the easier it is. We're not unique. Just about any couple with any kind of successful relationship will tell you the same.


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## Reese (Jun 19, 2010)

But I don't get the feeling that you are entirely honest.

Note line:

"We are honest… if.
We will commit… until."

"Truth is, honesty."

Yeah, but when are you honest thoughout the entire piece? You tell me a lot ABOUT honest, but don't show much of it yourself.

You talk a lot about "elements of stability facilitate happiness," and "elements of life that are necessary to the health and well-being of society"

Are you seeking stability? Are you seeking happiness?

It's unclear to the reader.


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## JosephB (Jun 19, 2010)

Who are you talking to, Mr. Reader? I didn't write the OP. Robert did. I was simply discussing some of the ideas he presented.


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## Blood (Jun 20, 2010)

The 'ego' often supersedes honesty [but in no way inhibits communication] as it can and will effectively hide the truth from it's possessor.


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## JosephB (Jun 20, 2010)

Yes, it's true that there are things we don't recognize or acknowledge about our own actions and behavior -- that sometimes we aren't honest with ourselves. But this is more about the good faith _effort_ that two people in a reationship  should make to be honest with each other. It's not going to be perfect.


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## Blood (Jun 26, 2010)

JosephB said:


> Yes, it's true that there are things we don't recognize or acknowledge about our own actions and behavior -- that sometimes we aren't honest with ourselves. But this is more about the good faith _effort_ that two people in a reationship  should make to be honest with each other. It's not going to be perfect.


Do people change? If so, then you can never know what your committing too.  Good faith my ass!


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## Reese (Jul 2, 2010)

I think you're being very honest yourself, and I agree wholeheartedly. Which is very good! But being honest with yourself doesn't exactly let us know how the "other" party is being honest with themselves. That's kind of what I was looking for. Perhaps it's a bit of a stretch. But you set the tone, so let us know.


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