# Do you find consuming alcohol enhances your writing in any way?



## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

Hi,

Probably a pretty "controversial" issue in some sense, but I genuinely find alcohol helpful to my writing, particularly in the planning stage and early drafts. I think the key is to get just beyond tipsy, and not go to far past that point. I find it removes a lot of constraints on my creativity and allows me to direct my focus to the writing I'm doing instead of the "background noise" of daily life. It's very good for writers block too, I sometimes "over think" things when I'm writing sober and it can become slightly contrived, whereas I seem to have a certain momentum when I've had a few drinks.

What's your experience/thoughts on this?


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## Potty (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't find it helpful. I have to screw my eyes up to think while drunk until I give up and try to find my guitar.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

It's not that controversial -- it comes up here from time to time. I read a study once that showed alcohol increases creativity up to a point. The downside is that you might come to rely on it -- and that's playing with fire, in my opinion. People can develop a tolerance -- and then it takes more than "a few drinks" to get the desired effect. In the long-run, I think you're better off learning how to concentrate and tap into your creativity without it.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 17, 2013)

Not for me. I'm a lightweight, so a couple sips of a Margarita and I'll be zonked out ready for bed.


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## alanmt (Apr 17, 2013)

Not personally. But I can see how the experience of others might differ.



NewStartsman said:


> I think the key is to get just [to] tipsy, and not go to far past that point.



This is the key to successful drinking, period.  I sometimes wonder if we actually taught high school seniors to do this whether there might be a lot less alcoholism in the world.


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## Sam (Apr 17, 2013)

Depends on your definition of 'enhance'. 

What it did for me was remove my inhibitions and allow the words to flow naturally onto the screen. The problem was that when I read them sober the next morning, they amounted to nonsensical rubbish, the majority of which had to be deleted.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

alanmt said:


> Not personally. But I can see how the experience of others might differ.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the key to successful drinking, period.  I sometimes wonder if we actually taught high school seniors to do this whether there might be a lot less alcoholism in the world.



Well, I don't know - Tipsy is a bit of a light buzz. I'm British and I started drinking when I was 16 so my definition may be slightly different, but tipsy is about 2/3 drinks. I'm thinking about five is ideal writing territory.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

Sam said:


> Depends on your definition of 'enhance'.
> 
> What it did for me was remove my inhibitions and allow the words to flow naturally onto the screen. The problem was that when I read them sober the next morning, they amounted to nonsensical rubbish, the majority of which had to be deleted.



That's interesting, I find the opposite; whilst there may be slightly more typos and grammatical artifacts than usual - what's actually written down is good stuff.


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## Jeko (Apr 17, 2013)

I think alcohol is an incredible benefit for any writer. As long as it remains in the cupboard, the writer will thrive.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

You're probably asking for one of two reasons -- you're concerned about it, or you're looking for a rubber stamp for something you're just going to do anyway. Either way -- you probably knew what you were going to hear. Judging by your responses so far, I suspect it's the latter -- so bottoms up!


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> You're probably asking for one of two reasons -- you're concerned about it, or you're looking for a rubber stamp for something you're just going to do anyway. Either way -- you probably know the answer. I suspect it's the latter, so bottoms up!



I know it works for me, I'm asking if anybody else finds the same thing - The thread title is: [h=1]Do you find consuming alcohol enhances your writing in any way?[/h]
No need for any rubber stamp here, just trying to start a discussion.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

I know what the thread title is. It's more about subtext -- if you're some kind of writer I'm sure you know what that is.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> I know what the thread title is. It's more about subtext -- if you're some kind of writer I'm sure you know what that is.



If simply passing comment on my own experience whilst asking people for theirs, and elaborating on my own when prompted makes this thread some kind of subversive propaganda for drinking; then I'm not really sure this subforum should be called "Writing Discussion".


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## Pluralized (Apr 17, 2013)

Just my own experience, and I have no idea how old you are or what your situation is - alcohol can easily rob you of your creativity and innate curiosity, and turn you into a cynic without you really noticing. Since I stopped drinking entirely, I've seen a major resurgence in my clarity of thought and creativity. Your results will most certainly vary, just be aware of what you're asking your brain to bathe in. There are better, less harmful ways to get in tune with that creative force you're after.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> If simply passing comment on my own  experience whilst asking people for theirs, and elaborating on my own  when prompted makes this thread some kind of subversive propaganda for  drinking; then I'm not really sure this subforum should be called  "Writing Discussion".



Pretty sure no one here is going to take your experience with this as propaganda. But I’m betting based on past discussions that most people who weigh in will say that relying on “a few drinks” to write isn’t a good idea in the long run -- whether it's based on personal experience or not. The reasons seem pretty obvious to me -- but if you want to see it play out, be my guest.

Later.


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## Terry D (Apr 17, 2013)

Drinking reduces inhibitions and relaxes to a certain extend.  For me, the writing process itself does both, and doesn't include depressive chemicals.  For me to plot effectively and to maintain the clarity of purpose needed to write a novel, or short story, I want my mind clear.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Pretty sure no one here is going to take your experience with this as propaganda. But I’m betting based on past discussions that most people who weigh in will say that relying on “a few drinks” to write isn’t a good idea in the long run -- whether it's based on personal experience or not. The reasons seem pretty obvious to me -- but if you want to see it play out, be my guest.
> 
> Later.



That's fine, honestly - I haven't seen said discussions though, and the fact that they've happened here before betrays that the reasons aren't obvious to everyone as they are for you. I'm more than open to knocking my drinking on the head for reasons other than the effect it has on my writing, and I intend to. However, as far as my writing is concerned as an isolated issue I have found it useful which is what I'm looking for dialogue on.


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## alanmt (Apr 17, 2013)

For the sake of furthering the discussion, I will try it tonight and post my results.  

Unless chance derails my intended course of action through the presentment of other propitious opportunities.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

alanmt said:


> For the sake of furthering the discussion, I will try it tonight and post my results.
> 
> Unless chance derails my intended course of action throught the presentment of other propitious opportunities.



Oh dear, maybe this thread is subversive propaganda after all! :lol:


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## philistine (Apr 17, 2013)

I find all the excess 'noised' is removed, and my mind focuses clearly on my writing. Even a small glass of wine can do it.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> That's fine, honestly - I haven't seen said discussions though, and the fact that they've happened here before betrays that the reasons aren't obvious to everyone as they are for you.



Not really. You have the few people who start these threads once in a while to whom it might not be obvious -- and then there's everyone else. That's not really a knock at you -- if you're drinking and writing and it's working for you now -- it wouldn't necessarily be obvious and might seem like a good idea. And I'm not saying you have an issue -- or this applies to you -- but often there's a fair amount of denial when it comes to a reliance on drinking, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's harmful. That's why some people tentatively ask for approval. Regardless, this is something you'll have to figure out for yourself -- but sometimes it's good to have some cautionary advice echoing in the back of your head when you screw the top off. Good luck. (And that's not sarcasm.)


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Not really. You have the few people who start these threads once in a while to whom it might not be obvious -- and then there's everyone else. That's not really a knock at you -- if you're drinking and writing and it's working for you now -- it wouldn't necessarily be obvious and might seem like a good idea. And I'm not saying you have an issue -- or this applies to you -- but often there's a fair amount of denial when it comes to a reliance on drinking, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's harmful. That's why some people tentatively ask for approval. Regardless, this is something you'll have to figure out for yourself -- but sometimes it's good to have some cautionary advice echoing in the back of your head when you screw the top off. Good luck. (And that's not sarcasm.)



Honestly, I do have a drinking problem - I know it, and I'm only 22. I can drink a bottle of Jim Beam, 15 cans of premium strength ale or three bottles of Merlot in a single session (Often 18 hours) - and it started when I was quite young.

I don't drink like that anymore - but the problem I had was not rooted in my writing, instead; getting into writing more gave me control of my consumption. The only time I drink is when I'm writing and I have control over the quantity now. I don't get carried away and go on a mini-bender. I'm debating whether to pack it in altogether, but I genuinely find my writing is better when I've had a few. I was just wondering what everybody else's experience is as far as writing is concerned. Perhaps I am just deluding myself, I don't know.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 17, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> Honestly, I do have a drinking problem - I know it, and I'm only 22. I can drink a bottle of Jim Beam, 15 cans of premium strength ale or three bottles of Merlot in a single session (Often 18 hours) - and it started when I was quite young.
> 
> I don't drink like that anymore - but the problem I had was not rooted in my writing, instead; getting into writing more gave me control of my consumption. The only time I drink is when I'm writing and I have control over the quantity now. I don't get carried away and go on a mini-bender. I'm debating whether to pack it in altogether, but I genuinely find my writing is better when I've had a few. I was just wondering what everybody else's experience is as far as writing is concerned. Perhaps I am just deluding myself, I don't know.



"I'm not a drunk - I only have a few beers every night..."

Learn to enhance your writing yourself - you'll be a better writer and better off generally. Been there, done that - it's definitely self-delusion.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> Honestly, I do have a drinking problem - I know it, and I'm only 22. I can drink a bottle of Jim Beam, 15 cans of premium strength ale or three bottles of Merlot in a single session (Often 18 hours) - and it started when I was quite young.
> 
> I don't drink like that anymore - but the problem I had was not rooted in my writing, instead; getting into writing more gave me control of my consumption. The only time I drink is when I'm writing and I have control over the quantity now. I don't get carried away and go on a mini-bender. I'm debating whether to pack it in altogether, but I genuinely find my writing is better when I've had a few. I was just wondering what everybody else's experience is as far as writing is concerned. Perhaps I am just deluding myself, I don't know.



I suspected as much. 

As soon as you use the word "control" it probably means you really don't have any. That's where getting some guidance from people with experience can really be invaluable. This really isn't the place to get into it -- but otherwise you can try packing it in and see what happens. If you can't -- then you might need some help. Again, good luck.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> I suspected as much.
> 
> As soon as you use the word "control" it probably means you really don't have any. That's where getting some guidance from people with experience can really be invaluable. This really isn't the place to get into it -- but otherwise you can try packing it in and see what happens. If you can't -- then you might need some help. Again, good luck.




I'm not trying to reconcile my drinking with this thread though - I'm just asking how drinking affects different people's writing.


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## Jeko (Apr 17, 2013)

I understand what JosephB's getting at, but I won't enter into that topic.

I will say that I do not drink, and I write quite well, both of which are, in my opinion, good things when you're only 16.


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## Ariel (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't drink often but when I do writing is the furthest thing from my mind.  So, in my experience it hinders writing.

My mom turned to alcohol and drugs when my brother died.  Neither holds much interest for me because I watched my mother destroy herself with both.


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## Sam (Apr 17, 2013)

If you're drinking beer every night because you feel like it, okay. If, however, you're drinking beer to try to enhance your writing -- it might be a good idea to stop. I wrote a lot when I used to drink, but I never drunk to be able to write. That's a potentially dangerous habit to start relying on. 

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying to stop drinking. They're saying "stop drinking for the wrong reasons".


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> I don't drink often but when I do...



I thought you were going to say "I drink  Dos Equis."


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

Sam said:


> If you're drinking beer every night because you feel like it, okay. If, however, you're drinking beer to try to enhance your writing -- it might be a good idea to stop. I wrote a lot when I used to drink, but I never drunk to be able to write. That's a potentially dangerous habit to start relying on.
> 
> I don't think anyone in this thread is saying to stop drinking. They're saying "stop drinking for the wrong reasons".



I've had a drinking issue for a while - I too, wrote a lot more when I drank. It was only when I realised I could drink less by drinking for my writing, that I gained control of my drinking problem. As I said - I don't drink nearly as much as I used to, due to the fact I'm only drinking when I'm writing, and I'm trying not to get completely wasted - instead I'm trying to hit that ideal median I spoke of earlier.

Again - this is diverting attention to MY relationship with drinking and writing - I want to hear about everyone else's...


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## Ariel (Apr 17, 2013)

You _are_ hearing about everyone else's relationship to drinking and writing, albeit in a way that's a bit convoluted.  The majority of people here are concerned about your drinking problem because most of us aren't drinking to write.  A lot of us write _daily_ and drinking is commonly known as a writer's problem.

Drinking because you feel it helps with your writing or writing because it helps with your drinking is still a problem.  Seek medical/professional help.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> You _are_ hearing about everyone else's relationship to drinking and writing, albeit in a way that's a bit convoluted.  The majority of people here are concerned about your drinking problem because most of us aren't drinking to write.  A lot of us write _daily_ and drinking is commonly known as a writer's problem.
> 
> Drinking because you feel it helps with your writing or writing because it helps with your drinking is still a problem.  Seek medical/professional help.



How is this any different from drinking to feel more comfortable in social situations though? I know people who don't drink at all, then drink 30 (UK) units of alcohol at a party or a general night out because they feel they should.

Just because it's solitary doesn't make it any different - and I produce something with it, other than a hangover.

I know I may sound like I'm in denial - but I assure you, I know my relationship with alcohol is unhealthy, I just don't see how it's special or remarkable. People don't drink alcohol for nothing, and every single reason is as contrived as my own. Plainly, they drink alcohol for the effect it has on them.


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## moderan (Apr 17, 2013)

I can write poetry when carrying an alcohol buzz, but not prose. My fingers don't work well in concert with my thoughts. I don't find that drink breaks down any inhibitory creative barriers, but that's just my experience.
Writing under induced states of altered consciousness has a long and colorful history. Whether it be alcohol or laudanum or lysergic acid, people will try it. Some of the great works of art throughout history have been produced under various states of influence. Destructive lifestyles are often conducive to revelatory art. Chemical inducement isn't a viable thruway to consistent production, though. What you normally get are more pronounced highs and lows, and even that is dependent upon your command of your craft. What you trade is some of the quality of your life.
For my part, I didn't gain any consistency of production until I learned to moderate or curtail recreational substance abuse. Your mileage may vary.


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## WechtleinUns (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't drink.


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## moderan (Apr 17, 2013)

WechtleinUns said:


> I don't drink.


That's probably the wisest course. I've produced what I called "art" of various types under every influence known to man and some that may have been invented on the spot. Nothing has been superior to what I call "clean hands and composure"-sitting down to the typer or the guitar with an idea and intent under the influence of sobriety, and preferably with a minimum of potential interruptions.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

moderan said:


> I can write poetry when carrying an alcohol buzz, but not prose. My fingers don't work well in concert with my thoughts. I don't find that drink breaks down any inhibitory creative barriers, but that's just my experience.
> Writing under induced states of altered consciousness has a long and colorful history. Whether it be alcohol or laudanum or lysergic acid, people will try it. Some of the great works of art throughout history have been produced under various states of influence. Destructive lifestyles are often conducive to revelatory art. Chemical inducement isn't a viable thruway to consistent production, though. What you normally get are more pronounced highs and lows, and even that is dependent upon your command of your craft. What you trade is some of the quality of your life.
> For my part, I didn't gain any consistency of production until I learned to moderate or curtail recreational substance abuse. Your mileage may vary.



Thanks  Excellent answer, I agree - it's extremely subjective and a gamble too.


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## Kevin (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> I suspected as much.
> 
> As soon as you use the word "control" it probably means you really don't have any. That's where getting some guidance from people with experience can really be invaluable. This really isn't the place to get into it -- but otherwise you can try packing it in and see what happens. If you can't -- then you might need some help. Again, good luck.


 And to add to that..._ if_ you're a 'normie',  like uhm...watching cartoons, once you stop, you _may_ not be able to go back.


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## John_O (Apr 17, 2013)

WechtleinUns said:


> I don't drink.



Same here^


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## PiP (Apr 17, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> Hi,
> 
> Probably a pretty "controversial" issue in some sense, but I genuinely find alcohol helpful to my writing, particularly in the planning stage and early drafts. I think the key is to get just beyond tipsy, and not go to far past that point. I find it removes a lot of constraints on my creativity and allows me to direct my focus to the writing I'm doing instead of the "background noise" of daily life. It's very good for writers block too, I sometimes "over think" things when I'm writing sober and it can become slightly contrived, whereas I seem to have a certain momentum when I've had a few drinks.
> 
> What's your experience/thoughts on this?



Hi NewStartsman,

I think it really depends on the type of alcohol you drink, how much you consume and where you live as to _attitude_. We live in a country where a glass of reasonable wine is far cheaper than a can of coke or a shot of caffeine. The drinking of red wine to me here in Portugal is as much part of everyday life as adding garlic to my food or cooking in olive oil. 

That said, I never see any of the young people here in Portugal, as drunk as in the UK. 

Re. your comment about over thinking; I can also get so bogged down in the detail that in the end I can't see the wood for the trees. However,  I personally don't need to drink alcohol to consciously oil the wheels so my creative juices flow. In fact, re reading this I don't know what I mean...off to have a drink or wine! Just joking! :razz:

Seriously though, I believe using alcohol as an aid to writing is a slippery one. However, I personally can't understand people who smoke, drink gallons of coffee or a Molotov of chemicals in the guise of soft drinks, such as coca cola light for example. If I had any of these, I would be bouncing off the walls. Whereas I find an “odd” glass of wine, relaxing. 

I've taken so long to write my response (cooking dinner) I notice the thread has moved on. What's scary is I discover you are only twenty-two and have consumed vast amounts of alcohol in the past. I am not going to nag you or offer advice because I’ve noticed there is a completely different attitude to alcohol in the UK. 

Are you familiar with the life story of Dylan Thomas? 
Dylan Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So after my long winded response, yes I do occasionally like a glass of red wine while I’m writing, in exactly the same way as someone else might light up a cigarette, drink strong coffee, or have a can of fizzy drink.

Everything in moderation 

PiP


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## Ariel (Apr 17, 2013)

The difference NewStart is within frequency of use and a feeling of need.  You feel you need alcohol to write well.

You're making all the same excuses alcoholics frequently use.   JosephB was right.  You'll do what you want and nothing any of us say is going to help.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> The difference NewStart is within frequency of use and a feeling of need.  You feel you need alcohol to write well.
> 
> You're making all the same excuses alcoholics frequently use.   JosephB was right.  You'll do what you want and nothing any of us say is going to help.



I've long toned down  my alcohol consumption from the stage I was at at - My alcohol consumption is merely "above average" in comparison to the "Mars" level it was at. I'm still wondering how the hell this thread became about me.

Why must people lecture - I am a grown, and I think - Intelligent man. Stop making me out to be an idiot, you and people like you defined the stakes. As I recall, the OP was about:
*Do you find consuming alcohol enhances your writing in any way?


*I didn't even have to disclose I had alcohol issues in the past, but I did to be open - yet you and your ilk seem to be capitalising on it like vultures. I've said, countless times - what I'm doing is neither healthy or cool - but that's irrelevant. 

Hemingway didn't give a damn, and neither did I at one point. I've changed, and now I'm asking questions. Shoot me if you must - Y'know; for my own good.


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## Terry D (Apr 17, 2013)

I think getting the thread off the behavior of others, and back onto the question in the OP is a good idea.


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## philistine (Apr 17, 2013)

I recall Proust once saying something to the effect of, 'the trouble with those that reform, is that they want to rain on everybody else's parade, too', or something like that. There seems to be a little of that going on in here. 

Saying that, I've just cracked open a bottle of Australian Shiraz. Ostrayluh treats that grape quite well.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care enough to rain on anyone's parade. People are going to do what they want to do. I stopped using drugs and alcohol before I started writing -- but I was drinking and using various substances while I was in art and design school and it didn't enhance my creativity very much, if at all. I just liked the idea that it did. In the long-run, it was a hindrance. So I'm speaking from experience -- I'm not trying to reform anyone.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> As far as I'm concerned, I don't care enough to rain on anyone's parade.



There is no parade.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

I was referencing a phrase from the post above mine. Tell it to him.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

JosephB said:


> I was referencing a phrase from the post above mine. Tell it to him.



Apologies, Didn't see it.


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## Rustgold (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't drink.

However, there's evidence that 1 potion of alcohol (which isn't what most people consider 'drinking', and doesn't make you 'tipsy') will help settle nerves, which may help if you find yourself having trouble starting.  Trouble is, people have much more than this.


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## philistine (Apr 17, 2013)

Rustgold said:


> I don't drink.
> 
> However, there's evidence that 1 potion of alcohol...



Those pesky philtres. It's why I always buy from the local wine merchant, and never the corner shop. Lots of unscrupulous apothecaries out there...


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## Rustgold (Apr 17, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> Well, I don't know - Tipsy is a bit of a light buzz. I'm thinking about five is ideal writing territory.



When somebody's 'tipsy', they're already suffering negative cognitive effects from alcohol, so such amounts wouldn't be assisting with the task of writing quality material.


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## NewStartsman (Apr 17, 2013)

Rustgold said:


> When somebody's 'tipsy', they're already suffering negative cognitive effects from alcohol, so such amounts wouldn't be assisting with the task of writing quality material.



Negative is a very arbitrarily defined word...


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## Leyline (Apr 17, 2013)

I was a drunk for the bulk of my life. 

No, it never helped me write.


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## JosephB (Apr 17, 2013)

It never helped me do anything. Pretty much every test I failed, project I ruined, accident I had, relationship I screwed up, opportunity I blew -- and in general virtually every major mistake I’ve made can be somehow associated with drugs or alcohol. I quit when I was 23 -- with the exception of a couple of relatively short jumps off the wagon. That’s a whole of lot of screwing up in a relatively short time.


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## Morkonan (Apr 17, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> ...What's your experience/thoughts on this?



My experiences with it don't really qualify as "experiences", since they were clouded by the fact that I was drunk... (I also stopped drinking long before I started writing in earnest.)

I don't think that drinking alcohol is conducive to any creative experience. The last thing I would want to have happen to me is to have my mind fuzzy and clouded while writing because I was intoxicated. In my opinion, and it's just an opinion, the idea that being intoxicated somehow aids one in being creative is much like a drunk who thinks he's "fine to drive." One's perceptions when under the influence of intoxicants are often wrong.

Again, that's just my opinion. I don't think being intoxicated as a general rule is good for anyone and that goes doubly-so for people who depend on their brains to work properly.


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## Lewdog (Apr 17, 2013)

Drugs and alcohol have always been synonymous with great writers and great minds.  Poe, Hemingway, and several other writers were drunks and addicts.  Doyle liked the stuff so much that he made his most famous character, Sherlock Holmes an opiate addict.  Look at Hunter S. Thompson, was there any drug he didn't try?


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## Morkonan (Apr 17, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> Drugs and alcohol have always been synonymous with great writers and great minds.  Poe, Hemingway, and several other writers were drunks and addicts.  Doyle liked the stuff so much that he made his most famous character, Sherlock Holmes an opiate addict.  Look Hunter S. Thompson, was there any drug he didn't try?



It may be that these great minds were troubled to begin with, and just happened to become great writers in spite of that. 

How many of their addictions contributed to their death and how many of them wrote great works while under the influence? Compare that with how many writers have written great works without the use of intoxicants. I think that a certain amount of spontaneity of creativity could come from the use of intoxicants, but what sort of hell would it be to have to rely on that in order to write? Imagine having to hit yourself in the head with a brick in order to write anything worth reading! I don't think these writers wrote well because they were intoxicated, I think they managed to write well despite of it and only in a few instances did they truly have a creative moment influenced largely by being somewhat out of their own minds... They say that everyone should drop acid at least once, just for the experience. I wouldn't agree with that, but I would also not deny that people can be profoundly effected when their state of mind is altered. That doesn't mean it's always for the better, though.


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## Lewdog (Apr 17, 2013)

Morkonan said:


> It may be that these great minds were troubled to begin with, and just happened to become great writers in spite of that.
> 
> How many of their addictions contributed to their death and how many of them wrote great works while under the influence? Compare that with how many writers have written great works without the use of intoxicants. I think that a certain amount of spontaneity of creativity could come from the use of intoxicants, but what sort of hell would it be to have to rely on that in order to write? Imagine having to hit yourself in the head with a brick in order to write anything worth reading! I don't think these writers wrote well because they were intoxicated, I think they managed to write well despite of it and only in a few instances did they truly have a creative moment influenced largely by being somewhat out of their own minds... They say that everyone should drop acid at least once, just for the experience. I wouldn't agree with that, but I would also not deny that people can be profoundly effected when their state of mind is altered. That doesn't mean it's always for the better, though.



There is never going to be an absolute answer to anything.  Everyone is different and unique in their own ways, and will react differently under different circumstances.  Just look at this list, and this is just a microcosm of how many there really were/are.  

Top 15 Great Alcoholic Writers - Listverse


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## Tiamat (Apr 17, 2013)

Speaking with my relatively little experience on the topic, I wrote a short story while drunk one time.  And the reason I only ever did it once was because the story amounted to just shy of 2,000 words of utter garbage.  I still have the story, and read it every now and again--partly to have a good chuckle, and partly to remind myself that regardless of what the "greats" may have done, my best writing is done stone cold sober.

And now, while I still have a few drinks every now and again, I make sure my writing is done for the day before I go pour myself one.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Apr 17, 2013)

There have been many great writers who were not drunks, and a great many drunks who weren't good writers. So the connection between the two seems pretty tenuous. And besides, most of us aren't Faulkner or Hemingway or whoever, so as excuses for alcohol abuse go, it's a poor one. Might as well sell your organs and spend all the money on lottery tickets.

As for me, I tend to write in the morning, so no, drinking before noon seems ill-advised.


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## Lewdog (Apr 17, 2013)

lasm said:


> There have been many great writers who were not drunks, and a great many drunks who weren't good writers. So the connection between the two seems pretty tenuous. And besides, most of us aren't Faulkner or Hemingway or whoever, so as excuses for alcohol abuse go, it's a poor one. Might as well sell your organs and spend all the money on lottery tickets.
> 
> As for me, I tend to write in the morning, so no, drinking before noon seems ill-advised.



Given the population of the world, there are more sober people than drunks, so it would be a given that there would be more sober writers than drunk ones.  With that said, there is a lot more writers other than Hemingway and Faulkner that were also addicts and drunks.  One of the greatest minds of all time, Sigmund Freud was an addict.  We live in a different time now than back then, when personal drug use was more prevalent and less policed.  

Some of the greatest musicians of all time were addicts and drunks, many today still are.  Someone would have a very hard time convincing me that there is not some kind of correlation between alcohol and drug use and professions that involve creativity and abstract thought processing.


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## Kevin (Apr 17, 2013)

Maybe...I would need statistics, but in any case, I'm not a statistic.


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## Leyline (Apr 17, 2013)

The existence of individual artists who have managed great creativity despite addiction, many of whom paid the price of abusing their health, is not a sufficient reason to encourage risky behavior with addictive substances, in my opinion.

People are different of course, and react differently to alcohol. My experience pretty much echoes Steph's above to the point where many times my 'blocks' were basically 'long periods of daily drinking.' 

I also don't tell people what to do, I just offer my own experience and opinion, and some advice that's free to be ignored. And that advice is: don't tie your writing to alcohol even if you do think it improves it. Whatever you think of alcohol, the evidence of its health effects are pretty overwhelming. I'm experiencing some of them now, actually. Eventually, if you want to keep your health, you'll need to slow way way down or stop. Why have the routine and personal experience of your writing tied to that, even as an aid?


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## Lewdog (Apr 17, 2013)

I'm not saying a person should go out and get drunk or start doing illegal drugs in order to be a better writer, but at the same time, I'm not going to ignore the fact that several artist in many different categories were highly successful while under the influence.  To each their own, who can judge what makes them a better writer, than the person their self?


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## Dictarium (Apr 18, 2013)

Some really, truly great writers were alcoholics (or if they weren't, they just REALLY liked to get their drink on, as it were). Obviously the abuse of alcohol for the purposes of increasing your writing ability/creativity is inadvisable, but I don't see the harm in utilizing an inebriated state for writing purposes if one was going to drink anyway.

Though it probably violates the "don't drink alone" rule.


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## alanmt (Apr 18, 2013)

alanmt said:


> For the sake of furthering the discussion, I will try it tonight and post my results.
> 
> Unless chance derails my intended course of action through the presentment of other propitious opportunities.



Sorry, but such a contingency has in fact occurred and I will need to put off the writing half of this experiment for tonight.


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## Rustgold (Apr 18, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> I'm not saying a person should go out and get drunk or start doing illegal drugs in order to be a better writer, but at the same time, I'm not going to ignore the fact that several artist in many different categories were highly successful while under the influence.  To each their own, who can judge what makes them a better writer, than the person their self?





Lewdog said:


> Drugs and alcohol have always been synonymous with great writers and great minds. Poe, Hemingway, and several other writers were drunks and addicts. Doyle liked the stuff so much that he made his most famous character, Sherlock Holmes an opiate addict. Look at Hunter S. Thompson, was there any drug he didn't try?





> Given the population of the world, there are more sober people than drunks, so it would be a given that there would be more sober writers than drunk ones. With that said, there is a lot more writers other than Hemingway and Faulkner that were also addicts and drunks. One of the greatest minds of all time, Sigmund Freud was an addict



The problem with this analysis is that back in those times, water was the most dangerous thing you could drink.  Everybody once either drank alcohol or tea, and dangerous & deadly drug concoctions were the norm (including deadly nightshade).  And you find that so many of these people produced their best works early in life, before their addictions (and negative effects of) got too severe.
And using Sigmund Freud is a poor example for proving your point; the guy was a complete nutcase, and listening to many of the things he promoted would send you either to jail or to a mental hospital.  He's a perfect example where name branding doesn't match reality.


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## Bae1ayri7c (Apr 18, 2013)

I don't find it helpful. I have to screw my eyes up to think while drunk until I give up and try to find my guitar.


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## JosephB (Apr 18, 2013)

Just because a writer was an alcoholic doesn't mean he always wrote  under the influence. For example, according to those close to him,  Fitzgerald didn't drink while he was writing. In the early years of  drinking, many alcoholics can separate work and other responsibilities from  drinking -- some continue to manage that even when most other aspects of  their lives are affected -- so who's to say that some percentage of  alcoholic writers didn't do the same? And many of these writers did their  best work when they were young -- likely before they started  drinking like alcoholics, when just having a drink or two was possible. There's no set time-frame or pattern when it comes to alcoholic drinking.

And in the later stages, many  alcoholics drink to simply keep from getting sick and going into  withdrawal -- at that stage, when tolerance is very high, it's unlikely  any writer would benefit from the effects of alcohol. Much of the  time -- it's not like you are really "drunk" in the way that most people  think -- you're just maintaining. So in the absence of evidence, the idea that it's a given a  writer wrote or did his best work under the influence just because he  was an alcoholic is guesswork.


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## alanmt (Apr 18, 2013)

I can report, in the interests of science, that kissing someone who has just taken a sip of a mixed drink that you like so that you can taste a hint of the drink on their lips as you kiss them can enhance the kissing experience.

That might be a little off topic, but for the fact that such activities replaced my writing with alcohol experiment scheduled for last night.


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## JosephB (Apr 18, 2013)

I can't do that. I might kiss someone and then go off on a bender.  Why I skip the wine at communion -- and that's practically a sin if you're an Episcopalian. Heck -- not drinking is practically a sin if you're an Episcopalian. When I go to an adult church social event at someones house, I always have to bring my own soft drinks -- and I'm not kidding.


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## Lewdog (Apr 18, 2013)

Creative people and those of high intelligence quite often develop depression or anti-social personality disorders.  This leads to the dangerous use of alcohol and drugs.  They are also most often right brain or whole brain people.  If you look at the definition of a right brain person, you will see certain characteristics that directly contribute to this, like failure to stay on topic, failure to conform to rules, and being hard to understand because of their abstract thinking process.  Addiction isn't just tied to writers of the past, King is a good example of a current writer that has sold millions upon millions of books and is a drunk.  Poe used to do most of his writing at a tavern while drinking.  I can go on and on naming people.  I don't know how many of you out there has a personal connection with true drunks or addicts, but I do, and though they may be in different stages under the influence, addicts and drunks are almost always using.  Sigmund Freud is one of the fathers of modern psychology  like him or not, you can't dismiss his contributions.  Fact is, a person can not totally rule out the idea that many artist come up with their best work while under the influence of some kind of substance. * Like I said before, I'm not telling a writer to go out and take up a bad habit in order to find out if they are a better writer under these conditions, I'm just stating that there is no discernible answer stating whether it makes someone a better writer or not. *

I think there is no question as to what type of person I am.  By reading the list of attributes for a right brain person, I would say I'm about as extreme as it gets.


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## PiP (Apr 18, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> ... I think there is no question as to what type of person I am.  By reading the list of attributes for a right brain person, I would say I'm about as extreme as it gets.



:icon_cheesygriniglet nods her head vigorously in agreement:icon_cheesygrin: but meant in the nicest possible way...

So NewStartsman, are you any the wiser?


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## JosephB (Apr 18, 2013)

The idea that alcoholics are “almost always using” is a gross overstatement. Even if they are “using” in general terms -- as in not in a period of prolonged abstinence -- many alcoholics often go through a significant part of the day without drinking -- and can go days or weeks between binges. I say that based on personal experience -- and from working with and/or hearing the stories of hundreds of alcoholics. How and when alcoholics drink is all over the map. People are just more likely to notice the ones who drink all the time.

And no one here is trying to rule out that any writer did his best work while under the influence -- rather, given that many alcoholics don’t drink all the time -- there’s no way to know who wrote what under the influence -- and there’s no way to connect drinking to the quality of anyone's writing with any certainty. The most accurate thing you can say is some great writers were alcoholics. In the absence of evidence, anything beyond that is speculation.

Regardless, I doubt that anyone on a writing site wouldn't know that there is a long list of great alcoholic writers. The questions more in line with the OP are, did they do their best work under the influence? Where they great because of or in spite of their drinking? There's no way to answer that across the board -- it's far more likely that it varies a great deal, depending on the writer.


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## Potty (Apr 18, 2013)

lasm said:


> Might as well sell your organs and spend all the money on lottery tickets.



Why have I never thought of this?!


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## JosephB (Apr 18, 2013)

I've sold plasma before -- but I didn't buy lottery tickets with the money. Maybe I should have.


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## squidtender (Apr 18, 2013)

Potty said:


> Why have I never thought of this?!



Put me down for a liver and both lungs . . . do I get a discount for quantity? :-D


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## mber341 (Apr 18, 2013)

In my own experience, I wouldn't say drinking helps my writing but it does certainly help with getting me started. As a novice, I don't have the greatest confidence in my ability to write and so I often procrastinate due to fear of subpar work or failure to put a coherent sentence or passage together, or just overthinking it all in general. Having a few drinks puts all of that out of mind and I can just start plugging away at the keyboard without worry. It's very similar to approaching a pretty girl. After having some liquid courage, I find it much easier but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm doing a good job at it. I could say the same about drinking and writing. Just because I find it easier to get started or focused on the story I'm trying to tell, doesn't mean the writing is any better because I'm not sober.


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## Ariel (Apr 18, 2013)

I've had a few drinks tonight and, frankly, I'm rather surprised at my ability to string two coherent thoughts together.  Writing is the furthest thing from my mind.


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## Potty (Apr 19, 2013)

squidtender said:


> Put me down for a liver and both lungs . . . do I get a discount for quantity? :-D



Out of all the organs in my body to choose from, you've picked the ones that aren't fit for sale.


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## Kevin (Apr 19, 2013)

Of all the organs in your body, the ones that are pickled aren't fit for sale...oh, sorry. It's late here.


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## Rustgold (Apr 19, 2013)

It appears (according to my protect shield - hey it actually works) that somebody has three links on this page as dangerous as alcohol poisoning.

But if anybody wishes to do something harmful, don't let me stop you.  You want to get alcohol or dope brained, no need to seek false justifications, just go right ahead.


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## qwertyman (Apr 19, 2013)

Thread: Do you find consuming alcohol enhances your writing in any way?


Yesh.


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## NathanBrazil (Apr 19, 2013)

Hey, Qwerty.  Long time no post.


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## Shiloh Irons (Apr 19, 2013)

NewStartsman said:


> Hi,
> 
> Probably a pretty "controversial" issue in some sense, but I genuinely find alcohol helpful to my writing, particularly in the planning stage and early drafts. I think the key is to get just beyond tipsy, and not go to far past that point. I find it removes a lot of constraints on my creativity and allows me to direct my focus to the writing I'm doing instead of the "background noise" of daily life. It's very good for writers block too, I sometimes "over think" things when I'm writing sober and it can become slightly contrived, whereas I seem to have a certain momentum when I've had a few drinks.
> 
> What's your experience/thoughts on this?



didnt even get through page 1 because i wanted to reply to this. 

YEEEESSSSSSS absolutely helps. And being a cancer patient in Nevada, I got a little card that allows me to get the Real stuff to help me write. I write 10x better on either one of them or both


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