# The Captain and His Sea



## Articulate Lady (Sep 13, 2017)

Here is an ocean on a starless night.
Shipless across her sea.
The waves are harsh, bitter, and ever-changing.

Across Her horizon the Captain came,
tired of travel and of life;
Her currents overpowered him.

But in her warm embrace he finds peace.
The reckless ocean,
Empty in soul and spirit,
Till the captain came.

Till you came.
I feel my ocean parted.
I succumb to the unchained heart.
You tamed my being.

The fog lifts.
The uncertainty finally clears.
The moonlight peers and lights my waves
My shimmering, wild currents are calm finally.

Oh lovely captain,
Do not fear me.
Do not fear us.

Two souls.
Lost in life, but found in each other.
Suddenly now, here we are.

Intertwined and interlocked,
Engulfed and overcome,
In serenity
In peace.
Now calm.


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## Firemajic (Sep 13, 2017)

Articulate Lady said:


> *During a Starless Night, there was an ocean,
> *Ocean on a starless night
> Shipless across her sea.
> *Her waves unattainable and harsh,
> ...


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## Articulate Lady (Sep 13, 2017)

Firemajic said:


> Articulate Lady said:
> 
> 
> > Above in purple, I showed you examples of ways to say the same thing... and as I said they are just examples of ways to play with words, I do it all of the time.. I will write down a thought and see how many different ways I can say it..
> ...


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## Firemajic (Sep 13, 2017)

O, I almost forgot... lovely title... The Captain and His Sea... "His" makes it possessive.. and I love that... if it was "The Captain and The Sea"... it would not have been so intriguing... see the difference ONE word can make... always look to make it unexpected... that is one of the allures of poetry... and your title is crucial, it is the hook that draws your reader in... love that...


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## Firemajic (Sep 13, 2017)

Articulate Lady said:


> Firemajic said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your feedback! I will be mindful next time when putting my thoughts together. I haven't completed abandoned my first poem yet, I am still trying to figure out a way to save it. Hope is not lost yet!
> ...


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## Olly Buckle (Sep 13, 2017)

> Then the Captain came, and crossed her horizon.
> The Captain crossed her horizon
> He considered himself weak, against her strong currents.
> weak against her currents, strong



As Fire says, only suggestions. Don't lose sight of what the bits left out might add; are they important to your overall sense?

Then the captain came, crossed her horizon

Sorry, hit 'post' by mistake. To continue.

The 'and ' I left out, it really is a nothing word here, but consider 'then' and 'came', try out how they add to it

The captain came, crossed her horizon.

Is the point in time important? Is it implicit in what follows?

Then the captain crossed her horizon.

That puts the emphasis on last part of the line and makes 'then' more about change than a time.

To my mind the first importance is having something to write about that is important enough that I want to get it right. That said, it is often in writing about it that I find that I am clarifying the concept in my own mind as well as making it lucid for others; understanding what is important to me


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## Articulate Lady (Sep 13, 2017)

Olly Buckle said:


> As Fire says, only suggestions. Don't lose sight of what the bits left out might add; are they important to your overall sense?
> 
> Then the captain came, crossed her horizon



Good point! I added it back in, I think it needed that, but wasn't too sure. I wanted to go with the whole "less is more" angle.


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## Darkkin (Sep 13, 2017)

Articulate Lady said:


> Ocean on a starless night.
> Shipless across her sea.   Read this line aloud:  Ocean on a starless night shipless across her sea harsh eaves bitter and everchanging.  Outside of a sea on a cloudy night, what is the reader supposed to take away? How is something shipless and who is she?  Ground the context, especially with narratives.  A little logic will help with things like this. Consider leading with the pronoun, so the reader has an idea or replace her with a simple the.  And yes, vocabulary is considerably better, but one still has to make sense.
> Harsh eaves bitter, and ever-changing.  With the eaves, did you perhaps mean waves, because context does not support eaves, no building has been indicated and eaves are solid construction, whereas waves work with the criteria and make the stanza make sense.  Consider reading aloud, it will help catch things like this.  A typo that is the source of a sizable ripple.
> 
> ...



Overall a huge leap forward.  Much more engaging to the reader, but clarity needs a bit of work.  A couple of pieces with nautical themes to consider looking into: _The Wreck of the Hesperous by Longfellow and Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Coleridge._


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## Olly Buckle (Sep 13, 2017)

> Outside of a sea on a cloudy night, what is the reader supposed to take away from this stanza? How can something be shipless and who is she?



Maybe it is because I was a sailor, but that 'she' is the sea was instantly obvious to me, and the metaphor of a sea without ships worked beautifully, though I think you are right about 'eaves', I took it as in error for waves, just the sort of thing that happens when you ask the mind to work double time 
Apart from the 'eaves' I suffered no loss of clarity, captains come over the horizon into empty seas and populate them, it seemed obvious to me without being spelled out. Ships and the sea are always 'she' to those who sail, I suppose it might not be so obvious to a landlubber, but nothing connects for everyone.


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## Darkkin (Sep 13, 2017)

It is not phrasing I've happened across before, the ocean being the context, the where and not the subject.  As such, the she is an as yet unidentified pronoun, the connection to the personification of the ocean unclear.  Just my reading of it.  Literal translation.  Opening word, proper noun or both?   Or something simpler like a missing article (the). Ocean is ocean, until indicated otherwise by context, telling the reader _where_ not _who_.  It is also why I had questions with the other pronouns because the _who_ was not clear for me as a literal reader.  An aberrant reaction, but the question in the literal sense is still valid. 

 Also within the two lines ocean and sea are interchangable synonyms.  The noun of sea needs to be taken into consideration.  Ocean = sea and sea = ocean.  Consider the possibility of indicating a portion of the ocean, not simply an interchangable noun.  Something like the Roaring forties, pirate longitudes, or indicate a size by something as simple as expanse.  A part, not the whole as the whole is the personification of the she as infered by her.  

The use of across also infers that there is something providing the motion of across,  (what it is is not indicated), while there are no ships on the sea, yet how can the entire ocean be shipless?  It hasn't since man first learned to sail.   Parts of it can be certainly.  The line when read as a whole does not support the sum of its parts.  By addressing the preposition across, the perspective and horizon narrow to that is within sight, not the whole of the ocean making the adjective shipless feasible within the context of the stanza.  Another aspect of the portion inference that adds dimension is the parallel it draws to human nature.  It can be bitter, with fierce wind and waves, or it can be warm and lazy, a lover waiting.  Different parts of the ocean, different aspects of nature's face.

With the addition of a simple the, the line makes far more sense.

e.g.  

Until the sea shall give up her dead verses  Sea shall give up her dead.


The ocean on a starless night,
a shipless expanse,  her waves
heaving bitterness, everchanging.

The sum of the parts and how they play with the whole.  A missing article can have a profound effect on the clarity of a line.  Most people get the metaphor, compensating for a typo or a missed word.  (That is not a skill set I have.  I look to the context and how it functions as a unit.  The stanza first and then the poem as a whole.)

There are good bones here, it is just a matter of tweaking.


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## Pete_C (Sep 13, 2017)

This still retains a prosaic edge and I think that much of it comes from the phrasing. When people say less is more, that means remove the padding. However, if you go too far you also remove poetic elements and that can kill a poem. Balance is necessary (and it's the hardest thing to get right; knowing what to cut and what to add)!

Try playing with the structure to soften it a bit.
For example:
Then the Captain came and crossed her horizon
Weak against her strong currents
Tired from weary travels, life had beat him down

Could be rewritten as:

Across her horizon the Captain came,
tired of travel and of life;
her currents overpowered him.

Two points to note (pedantic ones): fog and mist are the same thing, the only difference being the range of visibility. Pick one and stick with it as it's duplication. The other is the difference between an ocean and sea. She is the sea but the very first word is ocean. It's not a necessary word. Maybe instead make some reference to the night being starless just as the sea is shipless?

There is reference to the Captain and the sea as two single entities, then near the end a 'do not fear us'. There's no real clue as to who 'us' can be. If it's an error, correct it. If there is an 'us', help the reader.

The ending is slightly ambiguous, which might be what you wanted. In my mind, the relationship was cemented by his drowning (could be the 'us', the other Captains?), but if that's the case let us experience it. If the ending is just some happy words, then it needs to b stronger.


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## jenthepen (Sep 14, 2017)

Great advice from everybody in this thread - a poetry lesson to treasure.

On a general note; is it just me, or does anyone else see this whole poem as a metaphor concerning the relationship between a lady and her lover? Only the poet can tell me, I suppose.


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## Olly Buckle (Sep 14, 2017)

jenthepen said:


> Great advice from everybody in this thread - a poetry lesson to treasure.
> 
> On a general note; is it just me, or does anyone else see this whole poem as a metaphor concerning the relationship between a lady and her lover? Only the poet can tell me, I suppose.



Absolutely!


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## Articulate Lady (Sep 14, 2017)

Hello everyone!

Great comments and posts! I want to thank everyone who took the time out to read, critique and pick apart their views of my poem. 

Some points I want to make were that when I describe "her" waves, I am setting up the reader to find out that is me who I am talking about. How is that unclear? I think it adds to the flair of the poem that I left that character as a mystery until later in the poem. I know the reader is clueless, but that is what I meant to happen. I enforced your suggestion Darkkin, of capitalizing the "her" to bring it to attention, as well as finding another way to present "sea" rather just another name for ocean. That part of your critique I understood, the other points I am a little fuzzy on.

Pete C that was a wonderful suggestion on how to improve that stanza! Thank you so much, I put it in straight away. Also, the ending I am unsure really what to do with. I wanted to leave my mark that it was "us" I was talking about, as in me (the sea), and my Captain, or "The Captain and His Sea" as the title suggests. But I am so lost as how I could give that any more of a kick because the ending was supposed to represent the "calm" after all that we both have been through. Should I put that in there somewhere?

And yes, jenthepen, the whole thing is a metaphor for a relationship. The turmoil one character is facing, the tiredness of the other, but together they find peace.

And Oily, you old salt! A sailor after a girl's heart, thank you for your wonderful comments.

Overall, I reworked it a bit, but I was unsure of where else to go with it. Any suggestions or feedback would be greatly appreciated.


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## clark (Sep 14, 2017)

A.L. --Others have offered excellent guidelines for working with the minutiae of the poem.  I would add only this: arbitrarily capitalizing the first letter of each line is an 'old school' practice seldom used any more in free verse. Just let the grammar and the rhythmic flow punctuate itself as the poem unfolds. For example, in S3:

The fog lifts,
the mist clears,...delete 'finally' for stronger parallelism and to avoid awkward repetition of the word two lines down
the moonlight peers and lights my waves.
 My seas are finally calm...I'm suggesting this altered word-order to continue 'da beat' of the preceding line AND to reflect the CONTENT of 'calmness". ( Please see explanation below)

I'm not trying to bewilder you with technical stuff, A.L., but developing some 'technical' vocabulary just makes it easier to talk about poetry.  That's all it is.  Have a look at the rhythmic pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables in this line: the *moon*/light *peers*/ and *lights*/ my *waves**. * In poetry, a rhythmic unit is called a 'foot'.  Thus, 'the moon' is one foot.  Within the foot, the particular sequence of stressed and unstressed syllables is also named.  In your line, you have an unstressed followed by a stressed syllable, which is called an IAMB.  In this line, there are four such syllables, so the entire line is called a line of "iambic tetrameter" (tetra = four)

Let's move down to the final line of this stanza.  Original:  My *seas/* are *calm/* fine-ly . The word 'finally' has three syllables, but in normal speech we _pronounce _it with only two syllables.  Metre is all about Sound.  In the original line, 'fine-ly' has two unstressed syllables, thus producing a ragged pronunciation that is inconsistent with the 'calm' it is describing.  However, when it is placed in the revised position, it becomes an iamb and fits in perfectly with the flow from the line above as a line of "iambic trimeter" (tri = three)

Now--this is important to me, as an older fellow poet:  is the foregoing helpful to you, way too technical, annoying, way too detailed, or. . . .? None of us wants to puzzle our beginning colleagues, so we ("I", for sure) really need your input, using the above commentary as an example, what _level_ of discussion is going to work for you.

Returning to the poem.  Captivating imagery is the strength, the driving force of this poem.  That said, let me end with a question or two.  This poem of concrete images end on three ABSTRACTIONS:

Serenity.
 Clarity.
 Peace.

My question is:  why?  After the solid imagery throughout, I felt a kind of energy sag at the close.  Would you consider trying to bring the poem to a close by imbedding the narrative in some kind of summarizing IMAGE?  If the answer to that is 'no', could you provide a little more direction for these abstractions. . .perhaps guide the reader back into the imagery of the poem?

I very much LIKE what you're trying to do here, A.L., and I'm impressed with the imaginative base on which the imagery lies.  Please use the criticisms your poem has garnered as a field of goodies.  Go grazing.  Nibble at what you're READY TO NIBBLE AT.  Put the rest in a take-out box and put it in the fridge.  There's lots of time.


?


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## Pete_C (Sep 15, 2017)

Articulate Lady said:


> Some points I want to make were that when I describe "her" waves, I am setting up the reader to find out that is me who I am talking about. How is that unclear? I think it adds to the flair of the poem that I left that character as a mystery until later in the poem. I know the reader is clueless, but that is what I meant to happen. I enforced your suggestion Darkkin, of capitalizing the "her" to bring it to attention, as well as finding another way to present "sea" rather just another name for ocean. That part of your critique I understood, the other points I am a little fuzzy on.



First off, may I congratulate you on calling Olly Oily; I think that should be his new name and very fitting for an old sailor!!!

I think is was very obvious that the sea was a female; the imagery was strong, and when I spoke of drowning I meant in terms of the image and the Captain actually submitting to her. Capitalising the Her reads like a grammatical error, because it is. I don't know why you thought the presentation of her/you as the sea was missed. I think the comments were towards helping strengthen that image and didn't indicate we thought it was the literal sea.

I agree with Clark above; the ending feels a little bit cheap. You take us on a journey rich with imagery and just as we're getting ready for the climax we find ourselves in the metaphorical gift shop before the ride is over!

For me, the latest revision has gone a little too far, lost a bit of its imagery, and I wonder if the revisions have been rushed a bit. Take your time, sometimes spend a few days (or weeks) away from a piece. Work it and rework it and constantly refer back to previous versions. It is easy to listen to too many voices and lose your own.

This is worth getting right, so relax and take your time over it.


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## Olly Buckle (Sep 15, 2017)

I am not  sure why sailors are oily, Pete, but I am right with you about taking your time. There were a couple of references I read about poet's notebooks, Wordsworth took several years over one of his poems, finally combining parts of separate poems, and Wilfred Owen's notebooks appear to show that he started Dulce decorum est whilst on leave, but did not finish it for another six months. One of the things that worries me about forum poetry is the pressure people feel put under to produce. Introspection and consideration are essential to really good poetry, and they take time, one's first thoughts may be good, but they often lead on to something as well.


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## Articulate Lady (Sep 15, 2017)

Sigh, it feels like I am failing. I can't seem to get it right, I can't make anyone happy, and when I tried to change it, I am faced with more criticism. I don't know why i bother even writing. i just want to give up. I feel awful. I feel like I will never be acceptable on this site.


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## Firemajic (Sep 15, 2017)

Articulate Lady said:


> Sigh, it feels like I am failing. I can't seem to get it right, I can't make anyone happy, and when I tried to change it, I am faced with more criticism. I don't know why i bother even writing. i just want to give up.





Stand down, poet and gain your composure... first of all, you have NOT received criticism... you received CRITIQUE... there is a huge difference....Second... why are you concerned with making ANYONE but yourself happy? Where did you get the idea that you owed anyone happiness ? What happened here, in the fabulous poetry thread was an exchange of ideas and thoughts, expressed respectfully through critique, not criticism...

Writing is HARD work, either you are all in or you are playing...


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## Pete_C (Sep 15, 2017)

AL, I had a chapbook published back in 1978, and at the time I thought it was a great achievement. Me, a mere teenager and published. I was cock of the walk. Today I am grateful that it no longer exists. I did have a few copies I found last year when I moved, and they got burned with a load of other crap. 

I recognise how how far we all progress, and at an alarming pace. I immensely dislike what I used to write, but I never quit. Here's why: I could not quit. I never stopped, and I never will. I keep learning, and there are people I tried to help who today humiliate me with their brilliance, and they were a shadow of what you are right now.

if you want to quit, jack it in, crawl away, please feel free to do so. If that is your will it won't change. However, we all know you're more than that. Dust yourself down, rise up again and progress. I've made a good living out of writing for more than 40 years, and I was properly shit when I started. But I didn't quit. I kept going, and that meant I kept improving.

So, in plain speak, shut the fuck up and get back to work!!!


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## Olly Buckle (Sep 15, 2017)

She's right, Lady A. You don't need to make anybody happy with it other than yourself. If we do a good job will not make you un-happy, but maybe, just maybe, show you a way you could make yourself happier. This is what I was saying in the last post about the forum putting pressure on peple to produce something; you don't have to react; you certainly don't have to react quickly. Take your time, read what people say, sure, but don't always accept it, it is your poem from your mind. None of us can see in there. This is you showing us, we are the outsiders, the audience, and you can take any direction you wish if it satisfies you. We may suggest all we want, but when it comes down to  it this is an ego-centric activity; writing poetry. If you try to please the world you will please no-one, I think you are finding that out. If you can please yourself you have won, if you can go  on to greater pleasure with some help, great, but if it doesn't help you don't have to take it on board.

Take a deep breath, do something different, then come back and look. I find my mind is still working on things, even when I think it isn't, and I come back and see them differently, from a different angle, or more completely, or in a different colour, but I have to stand back to allow it.

Prose writers recommend putting work away for a month when it is finished, then editing, poetry is more concentrated, to my mind it should take longer. That is only my take of course, I bet there is someone somewhere who writes a good poem in half an hour, but I don't think I have met them


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## Darkkin (Sep 16, 2017)

Articulate Lady said:


> Sigh, it feels like I am failing. I can't seem to get it right, I can't make anyone happy, and when I tried to change it, I am faced with more criticism. I don't know why i bother even writing. i just want to give up. I feel awful. I feel like I will never be acceptable on this site.



A key element of any writing, write what feels right to you and consider _why_ it feels right.  Instinct is a precious tool, don't ignore it.  Get to know your medium before throwing in the towel.  And keep in mind the absolutely nobody has ever been good at anything without struggle.  You're two poems in and there is marked improvement from that first post and even the first draft of this piece to its current version.  You deftly addressed the critical issue of show v. tell.  And know that critique is a tool, what may work and what may not, not a must do list and anything you write is first and foremost yours.

If you write trying to please everyone but yourself, it takes all the pleasure out of the craft.  And that is something no one wants to see happen. Please understand that critique is a critical analysis of a work's content and technical aspects, detailing why something does or does not work within its parameters.  A criticism is a negative opinion that does not provide a why.  It is not a tool that offers insight.  Write for yourself first, but keep the reader in mind.

- D.


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## Chesters Daughter (Sep 16, 2017)

Deep breath, darlin', it's damned overwhelming at the beginning. With practice, as in lots and lots, clarity sets in. As was said already by some very mighty minds, YOU must be happy with your work. You can't please everyone, if you try, you'll lose your mind. Because suggestions were made, doesn't mean you have to take them on board. Take your time, if a suggestion does not suit you, forget it and move on, if a suggestion is something you feel will improve your piece, yet doesn't destroy YOUR vision of what it is your trying to convey, consider it. If the acceptable suggestions are numerous, weigh them to find the best ones that enhance your original idea, and try to incorporate them. Some may work, some may not. Edits are tedious processes, there's no such thing as beat the clock, for there is no clock. No pressure. It's very rare that a work that can stand on legs that don't wobble at all comes quickly. 

As was also already said by mighty minds, space is your best friend. Don't look at the piece at all for a week or more. When you next take a peek, you'll see it in a new light and it becomes easier to spot existing flaws, and with a mind free of the swirling that envelopes it in the midst of actually scribbling, fixes become more readily apparent. I'm not ashamed to admit that I've screamed at people, shut myself behind a locked door for hours, thrown things, and even cried because I could not get a piece right, sometimes it was only one stupid frigging line that would not cooperate. I think my hysterical shouts of "No, no, no, not right!!!!" reached the Jersey shore. Then I discovered space, and those tirades are quite rare these days. A piece often sits around for months, and I'll take a peek every few weeks, make a few changes, but when I get frustrated, off I go to get some more space only to keep revisiting until I'm reasonably satisfied. Then I'll post it, and the keen eyes here will help me polish it further. 

Because suggestions were offered, those who offered them are not sitting there tapping their watches and counting ticks expecting you to unveil a masterpiece. Critique doesn't expire, there's no pressure to immediately produce, it's not a race, work at your own pace. We all know how this goes, we've all been there, and we will be here when you're ready. Rushed work can hardly ever stand on its own. 

Chin up, you're not failing, you're becoming a poet. We never said it was easy, lol. And you, my dear, get an A followed by a billion plusses for effort. You're receiving so many suggestions because we can spot potential. Never set that pen down because you have heaps of it.


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