# How do you revise your work?



## Arachne (Oct 18, 2018)

Just wondering how you writers all revise/edit your work. 

I started writing my first novel a few weeks ago and so far I have tried various ways, including writing in the morning then revising it in the afternoon and now writing one day then revising the next. The latter seems to work much better for me. When I get finished writing the novel and revising in this way, as I go, then I plan to read and revise/edit (I'm not clear on the difference between editing and revising come to think of it) the whole thing in one go.  

How do you all go about it?


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## bdcharles (Oct 18, 2018)

I don't really have a schedule for it, though I do leave pretty long gaps between writing and revising. When I start writing fresh chapters or scenes, I want to carry on. If I then leave it, or am otherwise busy, that lends itself to a revision session because I'll have been away, I'll have gained some distance and perspective and so forth.


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## moderan (Oct 18, 2018)

I edit for grammar/spelling as I go. I revise after I'm finished. That includes removing/adding/altering scenes/characters/plot elements. Only then, _if absolutely necessary_, will I do another draft. I don't recommend that new authors work this way -- learn to finish first.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 18, 2018)

I tend to write a couple of chapters, then go back and check grammar and spelling, as well as looking for things that need to be re-worded or otherwise altered/replaced/removed.

Since I've already done an enormous amount of plotting, planning, and "re-writing" in my head, there's generally not too much of that.

Sometimes I will make a change one place, and go back further up and make another to help support or fill out the first one, but again, that's rare too.

I'll repeat this process until the whole thing is done, or I find a spot I'm happy with calling the "end of Book One", or whatever. At that point, I'll go back over the entire thing and make whatever edits or changes seem appropriate.




G.D.


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## Ralph Rotten (Oct 19, 2018)

I write longer pieces, 150,000+ words, so this advice may not be for everyone.


I write a hundred pages or so and doubleback to reread it and make sure the characters and story are fully illustrated.  With bigger books you build them in sections.  It's a lot like pouring concrete.


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## H.Brown (Oct 19, 2018)

When I started out writing my own novel I solely focused on writing the story in it's entirety then I went back over it from the first chapter to the last making any edits to grammar and plots. I then posted a  short extract on the fiction boards to gain some perspectives on what others thought about it and then went back editing and adding, molding the story. When I was again happy I posted the revision and went through the process again. Now my novel stands at 109,000 words long and is hopefully in it's last edit before beta reading. 

Both writing and editing is a process that I have found each writer develops themselves at first through trail and error. So do whatever feels comfortable to you so that you can tell the story that you want to tell.

I hope my words help.


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## J Anfinson (Oct 20, 2018)

I just crank it out, only stopping to fix blatant spelling and grammar problems as I see them on the page I'm working on. By the time I reach the end I pretty much know what all I'll need to go back and fix to make things work smoother. While I'm doing that I also fix whatever grammar issues I find along the way. Then I'll let it sit for a while before I read it again, and that's when I can clearly see I've written a big steaming pile of...I'm kidding (kinda). If I can't see anything else wrong with it myself, that's when I let other people have a look.


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## Arachne (Oct 21, 2018)

Thanks for all the input, it's really appreciated.

I'm surprised that some of you write so much before going back over it. I don't think I would be able to keep track without reminding myself of what I wrote the previous day. It's also impressive that some of you say you make very little changes. I find my own work needs lots of revision of structure and general use of language, so much so that it takes me twice as long to revise as it did to write the section in the first place. I read on another thread that this it normal for a new writer and that it gets better, I sincerely hope this is so otherwise it's going to take me half my life to knock this thing out!


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## JJBuchholz (Jan 13, 2019)

Just bumped into this thread as of right now. 

Revisions aren't exactly the most fun part of writing, but they need to happen more often than not. Personally, I go over each story as I finish them, sometimes removing or re-working dialogue and descriptions scene by scene. I will also revise while writing, often clearing whole paragraphs to make something flow more smoothly in a certain scene. Very rarely do I write a second draft unless I come up with an alternate way to write said story, before comparing both and choosing the best elements from each.

-JJB


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## Guard Dog (Jan 13, 2019)

JJ, I just crossed the 300,000 word mark on what I'm writing, and as best I can figure, I'm only about half way there, more or less.

Now i have no idea how long it's gonna take to get the whole story written down, but I've gotta say, I'm not lookin' forward to the job of editing what's probably gonna be in the neighborhood of 600,000 words, much less having to do anything that looks like a major re-write.

...though unfortunately, anything is possible. :hopelessness:

( On the bright side, I get the damned thing done, I'll probably have 3 or more finished novels on my hands, to figure out what to do with. :icon_cheesygrin: )


G.D.


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## Sir-KP (Jan 14, 2019)

Previously my rule was to do it before I write, but then I found it only serve as a procrastination that only polish one part, but never actually progress. :chargrined:

Now I do it when I don't feel like writing or when I all of sudden think of something better to be placed in a specific part of the story. 

When I do that, I will be doing it from third person/reader's perspective. That's when the uglies and the mistakes start to surface themselves for me to pluck them out.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 14, 2019)

Haphazardly. Some things I catch as I go along, sometimes I leave something on file, unsatisfied, for ages before having another go at it, sometimes I go back over what I wrote yesterday before starting again. My most frequent revision is to think 'I really don't need all that' and chop a sentence, or reduce it to a couple of words. Quite often I find in the original write I have done what could be termed 'Stating the bleeding obvious', especially as far as character's motives go. Their actions define them, it doesn't need explaining further in detail, that is how I got there but does not need including.


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## Theglasshouse (Jan 14, 2019)

Olly Buckle said:


> Haphazardly. Some things I catch as I go along, sometimes I leave something on file, unsatisfied, for ages before having another go at it, sometimes I go back over what I wrote yesterday before starting again. My most frequent revision is to think 'I really don't need all that' and chop a sentence, or reduce it to a couple of words. Quite often I find in the original write I have done what could be termed 'Stating the bleeding obvious', especially as far as character's motives go. Their actions define them, it doesn't need explaining further in detail, that is how I got there but does not need including.



I also print out the document and look it over and read it out loud. But I also try to do the above, but my results vary a lot. I recommend printing an important story multiple times and reading it out loud if someone cannot read it.

BTW anyone use specific grammar books or editing tools or did they depend on the grammar they learned in school? Knowledge of grammar is important.


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## Arachne (Jan 15, 2019)

Thanks for waking this thread back up, it's helped me to see how far I have already come since joining the forum. 

I'm glad to say that since I started this things have, as I hoped, become much easier in terms of editing. I no longer have to wade through what I wrote the previous day as what I'm writing seems to be coming out more 'clean' (thanks for the word whoever used it). I'm editing more as I go along now, sentence by sentence, maybe going back over the paragraph briefly before moving on. I'm on chapter 24 now (I loved writing that  ) and I think it started getting better around 10'000 words. Writing is so much more pleasurable now so I'm going to carry on as I am until I get to the end, then I plan on going away for a week to edit the whole thing in one go. 

Theglasshouse - I had a pretty crap school education so have mostly relied on reading experience to get me through my academic writing and through my novel now, supplemented by the internet when I feel I need help. 

Arachne


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## Guard Dog (Jan 15, 2019)

Arachne said:


> Theglasshouse - I had a pretty crap school education so have mostly relied on reading experience to get me through my academic writing and through my novel now, supplemented by the internet when I feel I need help.
> 
> Arachne



Arachne, if I had to rely on my 'school education', I'd be dumber than a sack of doorknobs.

Fortunately I spent a great deal of time learning things from a lot of other sources before I ever got thrown into the public indoctrination center/lunatic asylum they laughingly call 'Public School', and have kept the habit up my entire life.


G.D.


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## H.Brown (Jan 15, 2019)

I think that we as writers each find our own way to revise our works, for example I have found that I revise my writing best by writing it all and then going back over all of it in multiple drafts until it is how I want it rather than going back over each chapter or paragraph. I am glad that you have found your own comfortable way of revision.

It is also worth keeping in mind that everyone learns things in different ways, schools teach us the basic that we need for every day life but those skills aren't enough to allow us to write full length novels or poems (unless we undertake even more creative writing focused classes.) Every time we write we learn more and  more and then having others read what we have written allows us to learn more again. Keep going with your writing as long as you are enjoying it, is all that matters. Reading also allows us to grow as writers as it allows us to see how other writers write which in turn can influence our own writing.


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## Arachne (Jan 15, 2019)

Guard Dog said:


> Arachne, if I had to rely on my 'school education', I'd be dumber than a sack of doorknobs.
> 
> Fortunately I spent a great deal of time learning things from a lot of other sources before I ever got thrown into the public indoctrination center/lunatic asylum they laughingly call 'Public School', and have kept the habit up my entire life.
> 
> ...



To be quite frank the education I received as a child was nothing short of a disgrace. I wasn't even taught my times tables, but got out a calculator and taught them to myself when I was about 11. Apart from the occasional gem, my teachers were more interested in falling asleep at their desk, or going out for a fag, than teaching. I don't know what it was like in the States but here in Britain, for most of the people I know at least, Pink Floyd's _The Wall_ is not far from the reality of education back then. I was born a few days after that album was released and fortunately things did improve through the 80s, so if it was bad for me then it was worse for the people that came before me. 

The education my kids are receiving now is a whole world away from what I got, and the difference both astounds and upsets me. I'm delighted for them, obviously, but sad for myself at the same time. The other day my daughter had to explain to me what a conjunctive adverb is, I laughed when I found out as I've used them a thousand times, I just needed an 11 year-old to tell me what they are called!

Arachne


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## Guard Dog (Jan 15, 2019)

Arachne said:


> The other day my daughter had to explain to me what a conjunctive adverb is, I laughed when I found out as I've used them a thousand times, I just needed an 11 year-old to tell me what they are called!
> 
> Arachne




Don't feel too bad about that... Because if you want to sit down and have a conversation concerning quantum physics, I can hang in there with ya, no problem

If ya wanna have a contest diagramming a sentence, however, I'm pretty sure you might win.

( Yeah, I can construct and use 'em just fine, but I'm not usually too concerned with the names of the parts, never having any interest in becoming an English teacher, and having long forgotten most of the stuff below, that I saw when I was much younger:

Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar - Conjunction Junction

And yes, the above type of videos taught me far more about grammar than any of my teachers ever did. 
( They used to show those here in the U.S. on Saturdays, between all the various kid's shows. )



G.D.


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## Periander (Jan 15, 2019)

I'm not terribly organized at the way I go about revising my work.  Editing while writing your rough draft?  Guilty as charged!  A few weeks after I have finished the rough draft, I'll think of some random thing to fix and I'll go back in and fix it.  Sometimes, I'll pick a chapter that I think needs work and fiddle with it for a couple days.  Then I'll go to an earlier chapter and focus on that for a while.  Or I'll jump to the last chapter.

Planning and being organized is my nemesis when it comes to being creative.  I suspect that the vast majority of people feel differently.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 15, 2019)

Periander said:


> Planning and being organized is my nemesis when it comes to being creative.  I suspect that the vast majority of people feel differently.



I don't, I suspect that the vast majority of people are just like you; but are in denial because they think they should be organised.


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## Arachne (Jan 16, 2019)

Guard Dog said:


> Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar - Conjunction Junction
> 
> And yes, the above type of videos taught me far more about grammar than any of my teachers ever did.
> ( They used to show those here in the U.S. on Saturdays, between all the various kid's shows. )
> ...



Love that video, who was paying for them to be broadcast? The government? Shame they probably replaced them with ads for Cocopops and Macdonalds. 

Arachne


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## Arachne (Jan 16, 2019)

Periander said:


> Planning and being organized is my nemesis when it comes to being creative.  I suspect that the vast majority of people feel differently.



I think it's common for very creative people to be disorganised isn't it? I thought I read somewhere once that the most intelligent people are disorganised too. I'm extremely organised so if that's all true I'm screwed on both counts!

Arachne


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## Guard Dog (Jan 16, 2019)

Arachne said:


> Love that video, who was paying for them to be broadcast? The government? Shame they probably replaced them with ads for Cocopops and Macdonalds.
> 
> Arachne



I honestly don't know. Probably the government, directly or indirectly, but there are any number of  companies or agencies that could have been, like the Children's Television Workshop, and such.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 16, 2019)

Arachne said:


> I think it's common for very creative people to be disorganised isn't it? I thought I read somewhere once that the most intelligent people are disorganised too. I'm extremely organised so if that's all true I'm screwed on both counts!
> 
> Arachne



I don't know about disorganized, so much as proponents of "Controlled Chaos".

My workbench is a mess right now... a pile of things, all in a heap on it.

But if you were to ask me for something, and I know I have it, I can probably go straight to the heap, reach in, and lay my hand on it, where most people would have no idea what's there, much less where.


G.D.


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## Cephus (Jan 16, 2019)

Do not revise until you have finished the entire work.  Do not go back and edit until you're all done writing.  It's just a recipe for disaster.  Polishing one chapter while trying to write another is a downward spiral.  Write first.  Edit later.  Usually a long time later.  I'll put a book away for weeks or months before I go back to even re-read it and see what needs to be changed.  Otherwise, your head is in the wrong place.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 17, 2019)

Cephus, for me, NOT going back and doing some editing/light revision is a recipe for disaster. The story is just too long. ( It's over 300,000 words right now, and I'm only about half finished. )

It's a lot easier ( for me ) to do some 'fitting' where it's needed, as the need becomes obvious, than to go back and have to re-juggle the whole thing once it's all written.

Yeah, I'll have to go back over the whole thing eventually, but it won't be near so difficult as it would be if I'd just written it down without touching it up at different points along the way. 

( I'm not a great writer as of yet ( and may never be ), but I do know how to build/assemble things. )



G.D.


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## Cephus (Jan 17, 2019)

Guard Dog said:


> Cephus, for me, NOT going back and doing some editing/light revision is a recipe for disaster. The story is just too long. ( It's over 300,000 words right now, and I'm only about half finished. )
> 
> It's a lot easier ( for me ) to do some 'fitting' where it's needed, as the need becomes obvious, than to go back and have to re-juggle the whole thing once it's all written.
> 
> ...



There's fitting and there's revising.  I will go through and re-read what I've written on a regular schedule, which stops me from going off the rails in the middle of the book by misremembering important plot points or having plot threads get dropped entirely.  But on the first draft, the idea is to get words on a page. It doesn't matter if they're good words or bad words, they just have to be words.  Then you can go back and polish the words up, make them pretty and presentable, once the story is told.  But a lot of writers, and I'm not saying you, but a lot of writers will go back and polish and polish and polish those early chapters to get out of having to run the long distance marathon in the middle of the book. It's easier to revise than it is to write, but books don't get finished by polishing, only by writing.  If the story never ends, all the polish in the world doesn't matter.  It's fine to make minor changes if you've wandered off course, but the kind of revision and polish I'm talking about, that really has to wait until the end of the process.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 17, 2019)

Cephus said:


> ...the kind of revision and polish I'm talking about, that really has to wait until the end of the process.



Fortunately for me, my story is finished... Done.

I just have to write it down now. ( Which is what I'm currently doing. )


G.D.


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## Theglasshouse (Jan 17, 2019)

I guess if someone has a dedicated reader it is a plus. How to accomplish that seems tricky as in having someone you know in person read it. How has anyone used a service to find readers for a story? Such as a dedicated reading service by amateur writers. It could work even as a business opportunity for someone who programs websites and is an english major. Not everyone has time and has different needs. Any such enterprises to anyone's knowledge exist? (a bad example would probably be scribendi). Forums do this for free I realize, but I am referring to a business model that would help indie writers. Or people who edit independtly, of course it would be micro managed with membership for purposes of reading people's work. But even basic grammar would help greatly, not feedback on content, ideas and substance. If anyone knows any feel free to share these.


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## Terry D (Jan 17, 2019)

I start each writing session by rereading what I wrote the day before and touching up any obvious grammar/structure issues I find. When the first draft is complete I start in on revisions. I usually make three or four passes before I'm comfortable enough for a beta read.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 17, 2019)

Terry D said:


> I start each writing session by rereading what I wrote the day before and touching up any obvious grammar/structure issues I find. When the first draft is complete I start in on revisions. I usually make three or four passes before I'm comfortable enough for a beta read.



I do that too, but i also use what I guess you could call the 'Hop around' method, where I pick a section at random and go over that.

I figure by picking up at an odd place, I'm not as likely from my brain to do that 'I already know what's supposed to be there, so that's what I'll see' thing.

It works pretty well, most days.


G.D.


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## Cephus (Jan 17, 2019)

Terry D said:


> I start each writing session by rereading what I wrote the day before and touching up any obvious grammar/structure issues I find. When the first draft is complete I start in on revisions. I usually make three or four passes before I'm comfortable enough for a beta read.



I re-read weird.  I will re-read the first chapter before I start the second.  I will re-read the first and second before I start the third.  I will re-read the first 5 chapters before I continue, then I will re-read the entire book from the beginning every 10 chapters.  By the time I'm done, I have probably read the first chapter a dozen times.  But I know that I haven't left any hanging plot threads out there or taken a serious left turn at Albuquerque anywhere in the book.  Then, when I'm all done, I go back and start revising, at least knowing that I don't have to revamp the plot anywhere.


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## Phil Istine (Jan 18, 2019)

Cephus said:


> Do not revise until you have finished the entire work.  Do not go back and edit until you're all done writing.  It's just a recipe for disaster.  Polishing one chapter while trying to write another is a downward spiral.  Write first.  Edit later.  Usually a long time later.  I'll put a book away for weeks or months before I go back to even re-read it and see what needs to be changed.  Otherwise, your head is in the wrong place.



I'm starting to adopt the method of writing in much larger chunks before editing.  It might not be the whole story, but it's certainly a number of chapters.

I find that I'm more productive working that way.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 19, 2019)

My novel-length manuscript I wrote longhand, beginning to end. Lesson learned--I will never write out a novel longhand again unless I find someone else to type it up for me! (It took 8 mos. to handwrite & 4 to type.) Loved every minute of it except the typing. Once I realized I had _no idea_ what to do with the 90K word manuscript in front of me, I set it aside and spent the next 7 years teaching myself how to write and edit. (That was 2006?)

Since then, I really can't say I've worked any smarter. I began taking notes & writing scenes for my space opera when I was still in middle school, 30 years ago. After finishing the above manuscript, I had this bright idea I should get a bit more serious about this project. While I also began writing it from beginning to end, as I had done before, I found over time that I work best nonlinearly. I finished one book in what was planned as a trilogy, then scrapped it because I knew I could do better. That version still exists, along with its rewrite and part of a second book, in a project folder coming in at just over 600K. 

Before the grad school slowdown, I began experimenting with different methods of revision--3x5 cards; cork board story outlines; software outlining boards; narrative summaries; more. (I liked the 3x5 cards best.) For anyone who writes beginning to end this will make absolutely no sense, but maybe it will help the poor soul who just doesn't think linearly: I printed out one of the stories on a ream of paper to do a manual rearrange. Basically, taking a nonlinear approach means I write what I need to and can tell at a glance which book and where it belongs because I wrote it expecting to reorganize it and rewrite it. (At the time I really didn't care about publishing). I was (and am) more concerned about the overall structure and flow of what I write and was working at big-picture arcs when I set the entire enterprise aside for grad school. I wanted to have something worth saying and just wasn't convinced that I had written _anything_ worth reading. (Always a good point at which one should walk away...at least for a little while.)

These past four years, managing a FT job and grad school, have taken their toll on my writing. I began a new project folder and have somehow eeked out another 200K into the fray (same story world). When it's done, I will have 5 books, three in sequence and two supplementals. I've decided I work best beginning with an organic, nonlinear start, and then switch to a methodical outline of what will make the most sense to the reader, chop and rewrite to hit my word count limits. My first draft--the chaos draft--is for me; everything that follows is for the reader and publication. My objective with this meta-level revisioning is to achieve story consistency across the entire series, especially as there is some chronological overlap. And if grad school ever ends I'll let ya'll know how it worked out.


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## Theglasshouse (Jan 19, 2019)

I hope microsoft who made the assisstive technology for microsoft edge comes up with a new technology soon for word. Supposedly they are working on one. I am using it to revise my work using microsoft edge. Which I have not gone yet to the doctor but will urge my family to take me. I have the phone numbers, but my they insist I have to make the phone call. Using edge was how it seems I wrote with less errors it seems. It might be handy for writers, but for for a 9k work almost I use prowriting aid, and edge. (it took hours of effort and could have taken less had I used edge). Grammarly is too expensive for me to use every year even though they offer discounts. it is priced at 140 but towards the end of hte year they offer it at a lower price. Having someone else read it out loud for you is the best solution. In my case I used software built-in edge to fix the story the best I could.


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## Cephus (Jan 20, 2019)

Phil Istine said:


> I'm starting to adopt the method of writing in much larger chunks before editing.  It might not be the whole story, but it's certainly a number of chapters.
> 
> I find that I'm more productive working that way.



Ultimately, it's your book, your methodology and whatever works for you is all that matters, so long as you can turn out a finished product in the end.  The problem that I see with people who edit immediately after writing is that they tend not to finish stories.  Shifting between writing and editing requires two different mindsets that are often not conducive to each other.  Also, a lot of people I've seen who do immediate editing and polishing do so because it's easier than writing new content.  Who needs a perfectly polished first chapter if they never produce chapter 2?


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## Guard Dog (Jan 20, 2019)

One of the things I've found is to just write while certain things are in my head.

A good piece of dialog floating around in there? Get it down before you lose/change/forget it. You can always edit it later.

A particularly appealing description?  The same.

Later, when you're tired/bored/ just not in the mood to write? Edit, for a change. Read over it all and fix stuff.

It might put you back in the 'Writing frame of mind'.

One way or the other, don't stick to a particular method unless that's just what works for ya.  Change it up now and then just to counter the tedium.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 20, 2019)

Cephus said:


> ... Who needs a perfectly polished first chapter if they never produce chapter 2?



If I'd required the first chapter to be perfect, that's what I'd still be workin' on.

Right now, it'll certainly do.

But perfect? No way.

( The other side is... The first chapter is perfect? But the rest sucks?  FAIL. )

G.D.


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