# Has anyone ever had any luck with Amazon Kindle?



## Johnny

Hey everyone! 

So, while I'm still working on editing my first novel I'm wondering if self publishing through Kindle would be a better idea than subjecting myself to all the apparent pain and effort of trying to get an agent or traditional publisher. I'm still considering that way too, and am certainly prepared for plenty of rejection etc. but I just can't help but be tempted by e publishing. Obviously seeing my book in hardcover on a shelf would be ideal but there's also reality. 

Has anyone ever had any luck with Kindle? Obviously a great deal of marketing will be involved too, any advice on that? Or just things I should know in general? 

Thanks!


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## LeeC

Unless one is in a big hurry to become rich and famous, there's a lot to be learned from the traditional route. Even just experiencing the subjectiveness can tell one how their writing might fare eventually in self-publishing.


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## David Gordon Burke

Any luck?  Of which brand?  Good or bad?  Plenty of the latter, very little of the former.  HAHA.  

David Gordon Burke


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## MzSnowleopard

I have a friend ( and her husband) who uses Amazon and a few other sites, she says they get decent results, and her numbers are good- however- she has yet to give me exact numbers. She keeps going back to them so it must be working for her.


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## Arthur G. Mustard

I have had mixed success self publishing via amazon. Writing is a hard lonely business, which is mainly shared at the end of the journey. Publishers or self publish is always a difficult one, but with a very competitive market, the are many platforms out there to showcase your work. Maybe traditional publishers are an author's dream, but from amazon you might get a few sales and feedback from readers as to what they actually think about  your writing.  Either way, good luck.


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## krishan

I'd recommend at least attempting to find an agent for your work before you self-publish. If you cannot, then self-publishing is still an option. If you self-publish first, however, it might make it difficult to then find a publisher should you wish to.


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## kasbar21

I have been recently thinking about this to. I just don't know if what I put out would actually get seen by a reader. The slush pile on Amazon is huge! I know myself when I've been looking for something to read that there's almost too much choice. But I guess the only way to know for sure is to try. Johnny I would be interested to know if you decided to go through with it and how it's working out?


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## R. Mountebank

Kiaora all.
Might be slightly unrelated - but has anyone looked into paid advertising on Facebook and other platforms? I've recently read several interviews and sites where a self-pubbed author has got a fair share of hits by backing a round of advertising for a period of time. Not sure of prices yet...
I'm probably going to be in the self pub boat. Not getting any love from the UK agents I've subbed to. Some very nice form letters of rejection but no bites. Personally, I'd rather get the work out there - for free if needs be.


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## TKent

There is a great interview with Hugh Howey in our Featured Guest Interview folder. Granted, his story is unusual, but some of his advice is the same as I've heard from Tara Brown, a new adult fiction writer who earns a very comfortable living self-publishing. Both of them say that their best results camewhen they had accumulated a 'body' of work. I read something similar somewhere that a writer sold a small but steady stream of their first book in a series, at most making a thousand per year. Certainly not enough to earn a living. They continued to write and with each new book, sold a little more, and then when they had accumulated 3 or 4, they found that they were selling about 5K per year. So over time, they have accumulated enough books that this steady stream has become a comfortable living. The key, and Tara Brown and Hugh Howey have both said this, is that: a.) they have to have written something people are going to read, so basically, if it is poorly written rubbish, no volume of books is going to help, b.) they both treat it like a publishing business -- a quick look at Chicago Manual of Style 16th edition section 2 covers Manuscript Preparation, editing and proofreading and actually gives you a typical work flow for a book in a traditional publishing house. Treat your self-published book the way it would be treated by a publisher, write it, edit it yourself, get some beta reader feedback, edit it again, then pay for professional editing services, either learn how to do a professional book layout or hire someone to do it, pay to have a professional do a book cover (this is SO important according to everything I have EVER read), when it is all put together, pay for proofreading services, c.) learn a little about marketing, create a sell-sheet, query bloggers and book reviewers, etc.

Granted, that sounds like a lot, and it isn't 'free.' But your best chance at succeeding in the market is to act like you are a professional publisher, do the things they do, and then your book will stand up to others, assuming it is a quality story, writing, etc. You can find some very reasonably priced editors, book cover designers, etc. on sites like Fiverr.com. Read the reviews carefully, you can get a sense of what customers think of their services.

Anyway, all that said, what I'd probably do, is go through all of the writing, editing, beta reading, editing again, having a pro edit, and then I'd actually query it with traditional publishers, and if you aren't getting any traction, and you think, and have gotten feedback that it is a decent book, self-publish, and start writing the next one. Sure, you aren't going to be able to get a traditional publisher to publish that book, once it is self-published, but you aren't going to make a living on one book anyway. So write the next one, and the next one, keep going through the process 'as if' you were a professional publisher. Your writing will inevitably improve over time and it might be that the 2nd time, or the 3rd time, or the 4th time you query a traditional publisher, you have a great book in front of the right publisher at the right time, and they accept it 

Lol, easy to write all of this in a post. Much harder to execute!


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## RikWriter

In my experience, whether you'll do well on Kindle depends on the genre.  Certain genres and sub-genres do much better than others.  Specifically, SF&F in general and military SF in particular do well on Kindle for self-published authors.  Romance historically has done very well.  Mainstream general fiction, not so well.
These are generalizations, but they reflect what I've seen in the last 4 years or so self-publishing for Kindle.
I have five SF novels on Amazon for Kindle and I've done fairly well.  Not Andy Weir-well, but enough that I feel like I've been successful at it.


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## Linton Robinson

Here's the thing.  Publishing your own work is the default now.  It can lead to success (more self-published writers earn a living writing than do trad-published writers),  it can lead to enough recognition and proof of marketing ability to help you sign up somewhere, it can make you a writer to enjoy that with whatever group of fans you can manage.
The worst thing you can do is the "try agents and publishers first" thing.  That is old-model thinking.  It takes years to even figure out how you are doing there.  Your chances of getting signed are less than getting hit by lightning.  Seriously.  Good self-publishing can thin those odds a little, maybe.
What you are trying to do is build readership or fanbase or whatever you want to call it.... people who read you books.  This is a writer's  venue,  your "size" as a writer.   Steven King is a "big" writer because millions read him. Some schlub who just finished his novel and sold it on Kindle to four people is a tiny writer.  Some schulb sitting around writing to agents is a zero size writer and will stay that way for years.  Unless lightning strikes.
Here's the way it is now:  you write a book, you publish it.  You learn how to do that, instead of dreaming about the Blue Prince coming by and doing it all for you because you are so wonderful.  You learn how to sell your books.    You find your scope and size as a writer.  Whatever it is, its better than being unread.
Kindle is a very, very powerful tool for doing that.  Especially if you learn how to use it.


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## Bloggsworth

I once managed to swat a fly with mine...


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## Johnny

> Here's the thing. Publishing your own work is the default now. It can lead to success (more self-published writers earn a living writing than do trad-published writers), it can lead to enough recognition and proof of marketing ability to help you sign up somewhere, it can make you a writer to enjoy that with whatever group of fans you can manage.
> The worst thing you can do is the "try agents and publishers first" thing. That is old-model thinking. It takes years to even figure out how you are doing there. Your chances of getting signed are less than getting hit by lightning. Seriously. Good self-publishing can thin those odds a little, maybe.
> What you are trying to do is build readership or fanbase or whatever you want to call it.... people who read you books. This is a writer's venue, your "size" as a writer. Steven King is a "big" writer because millions read him. Some schlub who just finished his novel and sold it on Kindle to four people is a tiny writer. Some schulb sitting around writing to agents is a zero size writer and will stay that way for years. Unless lightning strikes.
> Here's the way it is now: you write a book, you publish it. You learn how to do that, instead of dreaming about the Blue Prince coming by and doing it all for you because you are so wonderful. You learn how to sell your books. You find your scope and size as a writer. Whatever it is, its better than being unread.
> Kindle is a very, very powerful tool for doing that. Especially if you learn how to use it.



Hmm, while I agree with some of this I must add that the bar is very low anywhere people publish their own work so my competition would be lots of garbage (probably some good stuff too, but also garbage). My real dream is to see my book series published on a shelf in a bookstore, and while that's difficult it is certainly not as rare as getting struck by lightning since ya know... thousands of people manage to do it, and even make a living. I'm prepared for rejection of course, and someday might turn to kindle but with due respect I find this post to be incredibly negative towards traditional publishing. Nothing worthwhile is supposed to be easy. Also, I know people who have had books published so clearly it's not impossible.


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## lvcabbie

This is the Kindle website @ https://kdp.amazon.com/signin where you can find a discussion forum that just might answer all your questions. Another is Kindle Boards forums @ http://www.kboards.com/

I believe a lot of success depends upon your genre - AND how prolific you are. There a guy names Konrath who sells thousands of copies of his multitude of books every month. He has a blog you might check out - I don't have the url as I get it on an RSS feed.


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## MzSnowleopard

Self-publishing is all good and well, it has its place- however, if this is the route you're set on taking make certain to have a professional editor / proofreader go over your work with a keen eye.

In a previous post in this thread I mentioned that I had a friend who used the Amazon site- she may have mastered the process of publishing with them BUT her work SUCKS! The biggest problem is that she flip flops between show and tell - as if she couldn't decide if she wanted to adhere to the rule. And her lead female characters are Mary-Sues.

This is where I stand on the issue- it's not about the publishing resource used- traditional or self-publishing- it's about the quality of the work.


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## PrinzeCharming

MzSnowleopard said:


> it's not about the publishing resource used- traditional or self-publishing- it's about the quality of the work.



I completely agree with you. Quality over quantity. I advocate this for everything anyone wishes to pursue. It will catch up to them if they don't adhere by it. It's like work ethics. In every interview, as the interviewee, I love asking my latest question at the end. "How do you define work ethics?" Then, I share my insight. It's fascinating that some people truly understand it's not a matter of what you did, but how you did it. Anyone can write for five years. Anyone can understand the process behind publishing. How you write will make or break the future sales. The audience you target will understand whether or not you're passionate about what you do by the way you do it.


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## movieman

PrinzeCharming said:


> I completely agree with you. Quality over quantity.



However, once you reach a workmanlike standard, one person's crap is another person's quality.


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## Monaque

movieman said:


> However, once you reach a workmanlike standard, one person's crap is another person's quality.



That is a good point, after all the arts - and writing is an art form - are highly subjective. I do agree with the quality issue but some of the guys making it as authors on Amazon, write prodigiously, so you have to wonder at the quality someone might achieve at that speed. They turn out a serious amount of work per year, something which most normal writers would never achieve, especially if they are working and only writing part time.


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## MzSnowleopard

To use my "friend" as the example- she boast about the number of books she has published through Amazon's program. 
To date I've read 2 of her books. I've told her that I thought she needed more edits and revisions- that her work could be so much better for it. I also commented that her work was essentially a novel length story of one you'd find in Play Boy or Hustler. Yes, she used terms and described those scenes as if she were writing for one of those magazines. Further more, in one specifically, it seemed as if the entire story was geared in a way that it moved towards that 'climatic' event. As if that one moment was the point of the entire novel. I thought it was dirty and disgusting. 

If you like this kind of writing, go for it- PM me and I'll give you the Amazon link. As for me, you won't find that stuff in my books. 

To which my friend blew off my perspective and warned me "if it doesn't have a sex scene, it's not a romance." She also believes that a woman can't / won't be published without depicting sex in her work. I disagree- and that's remains a rift in our "friendship".

Someone help me out in this- what was that well known, successfully published author- known for works that lacked sex?

Wasn't it Mary Higgins Clark? There is or used to be an award based on her standards for writing, one of them being the lack of this content- or cut off / fade to gray instead of.


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## Monaque

MzSnowleopard said:


> To use my "friend" as the example- she boast about the number of books she has published through Amazon's program.
> To date I've read 2 of her books. I've told her that I thought she needed more edits and revisions- that her work could be so much better for it. I also commented that her work was essentially a novel length story of one you'd find in Play Boy or Hustler. Yes, she used terms and described those scenes as if she were writing for one of those magazines. Further more, in one specifically, it seemed as if the entire story was geared in a way that it moved towards that 'climatic' event. As if that one moment was the point of the entire novel. I thought it was dirty and disgusting.
> 
> If you like this kind of writing, go for it- PM me and I'll give you the Amazon link. As for me, you won't find that stuff in my books.
> 
> To which my friend blew off my perspective and warned me "if it doesn't have a sex scene, it's not a romance." She also believes that a woman can't / won't be published without depicting sex in her work. I disagree- and that's remains a rift in our "friendship".
> 
> Someone help me out in this- what was that well known, successfully published author- known for works that lacked sex?
> 
> Wasn't it Mary Higgins Clark? There is or used to be an award based on her standards for writing, one of them being the lack of this content- or cut off / fade to gray instead of.



I think there are a lot of erotic type novels emerging since the whole Fifty Shades thing, guess if it`s your thing then fair enough but personally I don`t think it`s necessary to include sex scenes, or if you do it can be done very tastefully, minimally. My novel doesn`t have any sex in it and there are quite a few published authors who don`t. 
You are right about Mary Higgins Clary, well known for her clean novels.
On a side note, do you think it is also possible to get away with minimal swearing or it that unrealistic in this society?


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## Caragula

"Some schulb sitting around writing to agents is a zero size writer and will stay that way for years.  Unless lightning strikes."
It isn't that zero sum.  You can send your sample to all the agents who'll read it within a year.  Then you self pub.  Then you write another one and do the same, indeed, you start writing another one *during that year*.  You don't stop writing.  You still get a stream of self published books, you still give yourself the chance to be struck by lightning.  Win win right?


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## MzSnowleopard

Monaque said:


> I think there are a lot of erotic type novels emerging since the whole Fifty Shades thing, guess if it`s your thing then fair enough but personally I don`t think it`s necessary to include sex scenes, or if you do it can be done very tastefully, minimally. My novel doesn't have any sex in it and there are quite a few published authors who don`t.
> You are right about Mary Higgins Clark, well known for her clean novels.
> On a side note, do you think it is also possible to get away with minimal swearing or it that unrealistic in this society?



My friend had been working on her novels since well before 50 shades.

The closest I get in my work is corny kissing moments. For me, that's romance and it's fun.

I do believe it's possible to get away with minimal swearing. On a personal note- for me- swearing is an indicator of hostility / anger. So, it's something that should be used sparingly- especially F-bombs, to emphasize when a character is mad.


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## Monaque

MzSnowleopard said:


> My friend had been working on her novels since well before 50 shades.
> 
> The closest I get in my work is corny kissing moments. For me, that's romance and it's fun.
> 
> I do believe it's possible to get away with minimal swearing. On a personal note- for me- swearing is an indicator of hostility / anger. So, it's something that should be used sparingly- especially F-bombs, to emphasize when a character is mad.



Perhaps also with a certain type of character used to using swear words  often out of habit, like criminals and blue collar workers. I work in  engineering and there has always been a lot of swearing in that  environment.


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## lvcabbie

Monaque said:


> Perhaps also with a certain type of character used to using swear words  often out of habit, like criminals and blue collar workers. I work in  engineering and there has always been a lot of swearing in that  environment.



You have to be very careful with profanity. Using it limits the audience you can target.


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## Schrody

lvcabbie said:


> You have to be very careful with profanity. Using it limits the audience you can target.



Yes if writing children book or YA. If you're writing for the adult readers there's no problem.


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## Jack of all trades

There are pros and cons to self publishing. 

For self publishing, the editing and proofreading process is difficult and / or expensive.

As far as actually getting on Kindle, it's easy.

You can also have it available as a physical book. There are options, and Amazon has one. Just read the contract carefully. Some of the print-on-demand publishers list themselves as publisher, which they technically are, but that can hurt your reputation, since so many self publish poorly written books.

Having an ISBN is important for improving your chances of being found. And those have their own issues.

A single ISBN screams "self published", or so I've read. And a block of ten is ten mixed up singles! I found that out the hard way! A block of one hundred is a big expense.

So, it depends how much time and money you want to spend.


On the other hand, traditional publishers, I've read, are more cautious these days. Fewer and smaller advances are given. Little, if any, promotion of new authors. And many want two books completed before signing a new author. I guess they don't want the one hit wonders.

The up side is editing and proofreading are still provided at their expense.


That's what my research has shown.


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## Jack of all trades

Schrody said:


> Yes if writing children book or YA. If you're writing for the adult readers there's no problem.



There are some readers who prefer no profanity. And some who wouldn't read it if it lacks profanity. Readers come in all shapes, sizes and colors.


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## Linton Robinson

Johnny said:


> Hmm, while I agree with some of this I must add that the bar is very low anywhere people publish their own work so my competition would be lots of garbage (probably some good stuff too, but also garbage). My real dream is to see my book series published on a shelf in a bookstore, and while that's difficult it is certainly not as rare as getting struck by lightning since ya know... thousands of people manage to do it, and even make a living. I'm prepared for rejection of course, and someday might turn to kindle but with due respect I find this post to be incredibly negative towards traditional publishing. Nothing worthwhile is supposed to be easy. Also, I know people who have had books published so clearly it's not impossible.



This whole "all this garbage competition" stuff is total misunderstanding... and an unfortunate attitude.  Other writers are best viewed as colleagues, not competitors.  If you are competing with garbage, it means your work sucks:  you think Ferrari or Rolls see themselves as competing with Kia or Moskva?  Or care if somebody puts out home-built cars?    The bookstore dream is basically about ego... about "I want to be a real writer"  very self-destructive.  And the percentage is right up there with lightning strikes, sorry.   More people make a living as indie writers than as trad-published writers.  I've had books published by others, too.  Pain in the butt to try to promote or upgrade.   It's not a matter of "negative towards trad publishing"... it's realistic, and writer-centered.


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## Linton Robinson

Actually, buying an ISBN is virtually worthless.  For a Kindle book it is absolutely, definitely worthless.  The amazon  ASIN is all a proprietary ebook needs.


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## Linton Robinson

Caragula said:


> "Some schulb sitting around writing to agents is a zero size writer and will stay that way for years.  Unless lightning strikes."
> It isn't that zero sum.  You can send your sample to all the agents who'll read it within a year.  Then you self pub.  Then you write another one and do the same, indeed, you start writing another one *during that year*.  You don't stop writing.  You still get a stream of self published books, you still give yourself the chance to be struck by lightning.  Win win right?



Sorry, but I have a hard time seeing why it's a good idea to send out and wait a year to not hear, then self-pub.   I don't know a single agent today who wouldn't look with favor on a successful self-pub book.  That whole SP pariah thing has been over a LONG time.  Why blow off that year?  More indie writers make a living than trad published writers.


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## Schrody

Jack of all trades said:


> There are some readers who prefer no profanity. And some who wouldn't read it if it lacks profanity. Readers come in all shapes, sizes and colors.



Hey, I've read a lot of books I didn't like. I haven't even finished them, and that's okay. Not every reader's gonna like your style, but I sure as hell won't endanger integrity of my book just because some flower won't like a curse or two, or scenes of gore and violence. Yeah, it may surprise you (just as it did surprise me numerous of times), but you have two choices: leave it or read it, but don't whine about things written in it. That goes for adult readers, if you're writing YA you might want to put a disclaimer.


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## Monaque

Surely the idea that self-publishing now elicits a negative reaction among readers is a thing of the past?
I get that educational establishments tend to view it that way, but they have a different set of rules they judge by, readers just want to read don`t they?

Most YA novels don`t include anything but the mildest of swear words. The only exception I read was James Frey, who did include the odd expletive, not that James Frey does things by the book exactly, if you`ll forgive the pun.


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## Caragula

"Sorry, but I have a hard time seeing why it's a good idea to send out  and wait a year to not hear, then self-pub.   I don't know a single  agent today who wouldn't look with favor on a successful self-pub book.   That whole SP pariah thing has been over a LONG time.  Why blow off  that year?  More indie writers make a living than trad published  writers."

On your last point, of course more indie writers making a living than trad published writers: There are more of them.

Otherwise, thinking about it, you make a good point.  I guess if you don't want a trad published deal it's cool.  But there is work out there that won't be successfully self-published that will be good enough to attract a publisher, because it's not a black and white process.  After all, a great book might not succeed being self-published, for a variety of reasons, but why deny yourself the chance to land an agent or publisher who does see something in it?


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## Linton Robinson

Monaque said:


> Surely the idea that self-publishing now elicits a negative reaction among readers is a thing of the past?
> I get that educational establishments tend to view it that way, but they have a different set of rules they judge by, readers just want to read don`t they?
> 
> Most YA novels don`t include anything but the mildest of swear words. The only exception I read was James Frey, who did include the odd expletive, not that James Frey does things by the book exactly, if you`ll forgive the pun.




Definitely antiquated reaction.  Actually, who bitches about that Pariah Reaction is other writers and people who want to sell you author services.


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## Linton Robinson

Caragula said:


> "Sorry, but I have a hard time seeing why it's a good idea to send out  and wait a year to not hear, then self-pub.   I don't know a single  agent today who wouldn't look with favor on a successful self-pub book.   That whole SP pariah thing has been over a LONG time.  Why blow off  that year?  More indie writers make a living than trad published  writers."
> 
> On your last point, of course more indie writers making a living than trad published writers: There are more of them.
> 
> Otherwise, thinking about it, you make a good point.  I guess if you don't want a trad published deal it's cool.  But there is work out there that won't be successfully self-published that will be good enough to attract a publisher, because it's not a black and white process.  After all, a great book might not succeed being self-published, for a variety of reasons, but why deny yourself the chance to land an agent or publisher who does see something in it?



Nobody is talking about "denying" anything, but you.  Publsishing a book and learning to market it actually improves your chances of getting signed somewhere, some day. 
Your write off of the idea that more make living SP and trad is flawed.  Would make sense with an "all else equal"... but it's not equal.  "More of them" includes huge numbers of non-competitive books and writers. It can be a lot quicker and easier to pay the rent with your own book than even an accepted and published book.  The majority of trad pubco books fail and are remaindered.  This is pretty well known by people who familiarize themselves with publishing, I'd say.


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## Caragula

"Your write off of the idea that more make living SP and trad is flawed."

I didn't.  I don't doubt that more indie writers make a living than trad published ones.  I think my only criticism of your point there was that it was exceedingly trivial, as regards the 'self pub vs trad pub' line.  I'm not saying you don't recognise that either.  There are about half a million self published books hitting Amazon a year.  Of course there are going to be a number of those making a living that, as a number, probably exceeds the number doing the same who are trad published.  They also earn more per book of course.

I think we agree on more than it appears, and perhaps I've expressed my point of view inadequately in that regard.  You make great points.  I would only suggest that any writer take the trad pub route very seriously when getting their book out there, as it can be very beneficial for both them as a writer and their profile, irrespective of the financial outcome of the experience, which, if they get an advance out of it, isn't to be sniffed at.


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## Jack of all trades

Linton Robinson said:


> Actually, buying an ISBN is virtually worthless.  For a Kindle book it is absolutely, definitely worthless.  The amazon  ASIN is all a proprietary ebook needs.



Are you sure you aren't confusing copyright with ISBN? 

Copyrights are about ownership. ISBNs are about being found. A book can't be bought if it is lost.


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## Jack of all trades

Schrody said:


> Hey, I've read a lot of books I didn't like. I haven't even finished them, and that's okay. Not every reader's gonna like your style, but I sure as hell won't endanger integrity of my book just because some flower won't like a curse or two, or scenes of gore and violence. Yeah, it may surprise you (just as it did surprise me numerous of times), but you have two choices: leave it or read it, but don't whine about things written in it. That goes for adult readers, if you're writing YA you might want to put a disclaimer.




No one is whining. I simply pointed out that there are some adults who are turned off by profanity. Period. To deny their existence is foolish. You can cater to them or not. Your choice. But at least admit that they exist.


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## Linton Robinson

Jack of all trades said:


> Are you sure you aren't confusing copyright with ISBN?
> 
> Copyrights are about ownership. ISBNs are about being found. A book can't be bought if it is lost.



Yes, I think after all the publishing I've done I have a pretty good idea of the difference.  Are you used to talking with people who don't?   I will restate.  Buying ISBN's is virtually useless.  An ISBN on a Kindle ebook is worse than useless... it's laughable.  There is nothing about an ISBN that will get you "found".  How the hell would that work???   This is one of the weirdest posts I've ever seen on this subject.   Here's how you "get found" or "discovered".... you  bring eyeballs to a page with a buy button for your book.  Nobody else is going to do that for you.   If your book is fiction, SEO is useless, too.  You have to market your book.  An ISBN has no mechanism for drawing business.   In the specific case of Kindle books.. which are only available on amazon, for a proprietary amazon platform.... the ASIN is the only significant number, ISBN for Kindle is silly.
BTW,  I have sold over 100,000 copies of a book with not ISBN.   I know a lot of people who did similar numbers.  OK?


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## lvcabbie

Linton Robinson said:


> Yes, I think after all the publishing I've done I have a pretty good idea of the difference.  Are you used to talking with people who don't?   I will restate.  Buying ISBN's is virtually useless.  An ISBN on a Kindle ebook is worse than useless... it's laughable.  There is nothing about an ISBN that will get you "found".  How the hell would that work???   This is one of the weirdest posts I've ever seen on this subject.   Here's how you "get found" or "discovered".... you  bring eyeballs to a page with a buy button for your book.  Nobody else is going to do that for you.   If your book is fiction, SEO is useless, too.  You have to market your book.  An ISBN has no mechanism for drawing business.   In the specific case of Kindle books.. which are only available on amazon, for a proprietary amazon platform.... the ASIN is the only significant number, ISBN for Kindle is silly.
> BTW,  I have sold over 100,000 copies of a book with not ISBN.   I know a lot of people who did similar numbers.  OK?



Linton has hit the nail on the head.

There are a number of sites to publish ebooks on and they all use their own identifying system for them. Amazon uses *ASIN:* B004W84ABQ which is an easy way to locate a work.

If you decide to use any other self-publishers to produce a hard copy of your work, they usually provide their own ISBN. This number indicates the publisher as well as the work itself. Of course, you can buy your own ISBN, but why do that when there are so many services that will provide it.

And remember, there are more outlets than Amazon.com. Nook from Barnes & Nobel. 

Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-publishing that has a list with links.

And go to https://www.isbn-international.org/content/what-isbn to find out exactly what an ISBN is.


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## Jack of all trades

FAQs: General Questions | ISBN.org 

www.isbn.org/faqs_general_questions 

The purpose of the ISBN is to establish and identify one title or edition of a title from one specific publisher and is unique to that edition, allowing for more efficient marketing of products by booksellers, libraries, universities, wholesalers and distributors.


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## Jack of all trades

This gives a more in depth explanation of what the ISBN digits represent.  

http://www.thebookdesigner.com/2009/09/self-publishing-basics-isbn/


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## Johnny

Sorry to bump the thread but I walked by what I thought was a thriving neighborhood bookstore here in San Francisco the other day only to find it recently closed down. It seems it's getting harder and harder to sell paperback books nowadays, maybe I really should save myself the trouble of finding an agent and put it on Kindle with a nice well designed cover and devise a simple marketing/advertising campaign.


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## Jay Greenstein

Here's the thing. Be the work self or traditionally publish the work must be written on a professional level or it won't sell to either a publisher or customer. 

The downside of self publishing is that no one has heard of you so they're not searching for your latest work. And though a search for the latest books in your genre will pop up your name for a short time, that fades, unless there are good reader comments and lots of sales to push it up in the ratings.

After that, only the people you steer there will see the page. And if they turn to the excerpt and it reads like someone said, "I think I'll write a book," without learning _how_ to write one, you'll lose them.

I've have books on Kindle, and Smashwords (which gives you iTunes and B&N, too) since 2013, and am making tens of dollars, primarily from my Ring series because it begins with Water Dance, a mermaid story, and there are people who search for them. specifically.

So my advice would be to keep writing, but at the same time make an effort to pick up some of the skills of the pros, so your story is told to best effect. Remember, plot is something the reader can appreciate only at the end. But the writing paragraph-to-paragraph is what makes them want to turn to the next page.


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## Phil Istine

An acquaintance of mine wrote a story, and his agent took it to a publisher who had it published for Amazon Kindle.  They signed him up for a series of three (which looks like becoming six).  The first story is now available in book form as well.
So it can be achieved if the story and its telling are good enough.
No, I've no idea of his financial return on this venture.  It's none of my business and I don't ask.


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## Monaque

Phil Istine said:


> An acquaintance of mine wrote a story, and his agent took it to a publisher who had it published for Amazon Kindle.  They signed him up for a series of three (which looks like becoming six).  The first story is now available in book form as well.
> So it can be achieved if the story and its telling are good enough.
> No, I've no idea of his financial return on this venture.  It's none of my business and I don't ask.



I think it`s already been established that there are writers who are making an actual living out of only digital sales alone, it can be done. Like all things it isn`t an easy route, nothing worthwhile is ever easy.

And I don`t think it`s too nosey to ask about his financial returns if it`s your friend?


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## Phil Istine

Monaque said:


> And I don`t think it`s too nosey to ask about his financial returns if it`s your friend?



The word I used was "acquaintance", so not close enough to have such a detailed conversation regarding finances.  After all, he doesn't ask how much I earn washing windows


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## Monaque

Phil Istine said:


> The word I used was "acquaintance", so not close enough to have such a detailed conversation regarding finances.  After all, he doesn't ask how much I earn washing windows



Well that`s fair enough I guess, and I`m sure if he knew how much the windows were costing he`d be shocked :surprise:
The first I`ve heard about an agent going straight to digital publishing rather than trad, perhaps that`s a real indication of just how much digital publishing has influenced the world of literature.
Or am I simplifying things too much?


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## TKent

Hey there, Hugh Howey is one of the digital sales success stories. He is somehow associated with this site, http://authorearnings.com/ which has the following on its about page. But if you click the REPORTS tab, there are all kinds of great reports on author earnings.

Welcome to AuthorEarnings, where our purpose is to gather and share information so that writers can make informed decisions. Our secondary mission is to call for change within the publishing community for better pay and fairer terms in all contracts. This is a website by authors and for authors.


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## Monaque

A quick shifty at the graphs ( I like my visuals :friendly_wink does seem to show a marked movement in sales and earnings for Indie publishing and a downturn for trad. Obviously Indie isn`t all digital but I`ll bet it`s a large part.


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## Phil Istine

Monaque said:


> Well that`s fair enough I guess, and I`m sure if he knew how much the windows were costing he`d be shocked :surprise:
> The first I`ve heard about an agent going straight to digital publishing rather than trad, perhaps that`s a real indication of just how much digital publishing has influenced the world of literature.
> Or am I simplifying things too much?



My best guess, and that's all it can be, is that digital publishing is probably less expensive than books.  So maybe they wanted to give his work a trial run with less outlay before committing to anything further.


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