# â€œWe will all go together when we goâ€¦â€



## The Backward OX (Mar 24, 2011)

*“We will all go together when we go…”*

There prolly wouldn’t be more than three of you lot who’d recognise that quote. It’s part of a satirical song by the same name, from the era of President Johnson and Vietnam and ICBMs aimed at Cuba.

Whatever, I’m here because of Elizabeth Taylor.

I’d been going to give you the date for my radioactive iodine nonsense. But something else came along.

I’ve been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation – abnormal heart rhythm. It can lead to stroke, which can kill. AF can be caused by hyperthyroidism, which I have, and which may be magnified by part of my proposed radioactive iodine therapy.

On top of that little bit of fun, my heart rate had also gone through the roof. Okay, maybe not quite through the roof, let’s say it hit the ceiling. 155 beats per minute instead of the ideal of less than 100.

The day before yesterday, the local quack prescribed digitalis to bring it down. 

So I’m sitting here thinking, what next?

The six o’clock news came on.

_“Elizabeth Taylor has died in Los Angeles of heart failure.”_

Jesus Christ. 

She was my pin-up when I was a kid. “Lassie Come Home” and 
“National Velvet” cemented Elizabeth in my heart. Those violet eyes kept me coming back for more.

And now she’s dead.

She was only four years older than me. 

“We will all go together when we go…”


----------



## Jinxi (Mar 24, 2011)

Ox I am so sorry that you are going through such a difficult time. 

It was incredibly sad to hear about Elizabeth Taylor, but regardless of age, do not become despondent. Try to stay positive. I know it may sound silly, but I believe that the power of the mind is remarkable. If you allow yourself to focus on the bad news, that will become all you can think about and your body will react in conjunction. You will pull through. You are the Ox!


----------



## JosephB (Mar 24, 2011)

My dad was talking about this yesterday -- that she died of heart failure. He had a heart attack before Christmas and his heart is in really bad shape too.  He didn't know it, but one of his valves is shot, and his heart had been over-worked for years and was very weak. 

Several weeks ago, he fell and broke his hip and after the surgery, he had another heart attack. His kidneys aren't in good shape either -- and the contrast or "dye" needed for any type of surgery along with the blood-thinners and anesthesia could very well cause one or both of them to fail. 

He might have been able to make it through surgery after the first heart attack, but he put off doing anything. And if he'd been to the doctor before the first heart attack, all this could have probably been avoided. Now he almost certainly wouldn't survive surgery.

He's pretty young for all this -- only 72. His hip is healing very well, and he's doing great with the therapy etc., but it's only a matter of time, maybe weeks or months before he has another heart attack and that will likely do it. 

He did some hard living -- a lot of smoking and drinking, but he quit both of those about ten years ago. He was mostly AWOL when we were growing up -- present, but distant and mostly concerned with work. In the past ten years or so, we've become very close, and he's looked at my kids as kind of a second chance. He's great with them and they love him. It's all a shame -- and kind of a depressing and anxious waiting game at this point. 

And although he's rather resigned, he's in amazingly good spirits -- and that helps us for now.


----------



## Ditch (Mar 24, 2011)

Ox, Elizabeth died of congestive heart failure, a much more severe complication than atrial fib. In CHF, the strong, muscular left side of the heart has an infarct, part of it dies and becomes scar tissue. The weaker right side needs only to pump the blood delivered to it from the left side through the lungs and back to the left side. the left side can no longer keep up and pressure builds up in the lung blood vessels. Plasma oozes out into the lungs and the patient slowly drowns.

In atrial fib, the normal conduction pathways of the heart become disoriented. Normally, the SA node fires once sending the electrical signal down the conduction pathways causing the atria to beat or squeeze the blood into the ventricles. There is a pause at the AV junction to allow for ventricular filling, then the ventricles beat or squeeze the blood out in an upward direction.

In A fib, the ventricles receive too many rapid signals, the SA node fires very rapidly and erratically. Drug therapy has come a long way since Digitalis which is a very old drug. 

The three main drug therapy treatment strategies are:
    1) to prevent blood clots and stroke by the use of blood  thinners: (anticoagulants like warfarin, Coumadin, Jantoven; antiplatelets  like Aspirin, Ecotrin, Plavix, Ticlid); or  Lovenox (an anticoagulant  taken by injection), and Heparin (used in hospitalized patients. (Plavix and  Ticlid are antiplatlet drugs like aspirin but they are not the same or  interchangeable with aspirin. If your doctor prescribes Plavix or Ticlid, you  should not substitute aspirin for them.)

2)  another drug treatment strategy if to try to control the heart rate (ventricular beats), but  leave the heart in A-Fib by what are called "rate control" drugs.109

    3) another drug treatment strategy is to try to stop the A-Fib and make your heart beat normally by  what are called "antiarrhythmic" drugs. RATE  CONTROL MEDICATIONS
    Medications used for  rate control can be categorized as:
    1.  Calcium-channel blockers prevent or slow the flow of  calcium ions into smooth muscle cells such as the heart and blood vessels.  Calcium-blockers are preferred if you have heart or lung disease. Common side  effects are the heart beats too slowly and constipation.62 
    Calcium-channel blockers include: diltiazem  (Cardizem, Tilazem, Cartia XT)  [the generic name of a medication is listed first, the Brand  name is in parentheses] and verapamil (Calan, Isoptin).  
    2. Beta-blockers "block" the  action of adrenaline on beta receptors in the cells of heart muscle. They slow  down conduction through the heart and make the AV Node less sensitive to A-Fib  impulses. Beta-blockers are better for active or young people, because exercise  reduces the effectiveness of Digitalis and Calcium-channel blockers. Common side  effects are: the heart beats too slowly, tiredness, and loss of sex-drive.62
    Beta-blockers include:  atenolol (Tenormin), metoprolol (Lopressor, Toprol-XL), esmolol  HCI (Brevibloc), propranolol (Inderal), timolol, and  pindolol and the newer drugs  carvedilol (Coreg) and nebivolol  (Bystolic). 
    (Nebivolol seems to eliminate most of the common bad side  effects of beta blockers by dilating blood vessels through the release of nitric  oxide. See nebivolol.)
    3. Cardiac Glycosides slow down and control the heart  rate by blocking the electrical conduction between the atria and ventricles.  _*The most widely prescribed Glycoside is digoxin (a Digitalis  compound, brand names Lanoxin, Digitek), but  medical authorities consider it the least effective.*_6


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 24, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *Ditch*
> 
> 
> Ox, with all due respect. We "Ambulance Drivers" have very limited intimate knowledge of all of the bodies separate symptoms.


 


Ditch said:


> Ox, Elizabeth died of congestive heart failure, a much more severe complication than atrial fib. In CHF, the strong, muscular left side of the heart has an infarct, part of it dies and becomes scar tissue. The weaker right side needs only to pump the blood delivered to it from the left side through the lungs and back to the left side. the left side can no longer keep up and pressure builds up in the lung blood vessels. Plasma oozes out into the lungs and the patient slowly drowns.
> 
> In atrial fib, the normal conduction pathways of the heart become disoriented. Normally, the SA node fires once sending the electrical signal down the conduction pathways causing the atria to beat or squeeze the blood into the ventricles. There is a pause at the AV junction to allow for ventricular filling, then the ventricles beat or squeeze the blood out in an upward direction.
> 
> In A fib, the ventricles receive too many rapid signals, the SA node fires very rapidly and erratically. Drug therapy has come a long way since Digitalis which is a very old drug.


 
No comment


----------



## Ditch (Mar 24, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> No comment



OK, I do know a little about the heart, I have to. I am faced with many different types of heart arrhythmias that i have to correct quickly by choosing the proper drug intervention.

It's the separate body systems that result in long term illnesses that we are not trained in. We do emergency first aid which requires an intimate knowledge of the heart and how it works, how to correct the malfunctions. Without proper circulation, brain death can begin in just two minutes.

But look back at the last line of my previous post Ox. Digitalis is a very old drug. It's levels are very hard to control in the body. From Wikipedia..Today, the most common indications for digoxin are probably atrial fibrillation and atrial flutter with rapid ventricular response, but beta- or calcium channel- blockers should be the first choice. 

It also has a lot of bad side effects, I believe Picasso or one of the other famous painters was influenced by digitalis as it makes you see a yellow halo around objects as well.

Chances are the doctor that you are seeing is quite old and set in his treatment modalities. You can ask him about the newer drugs that are available as you should be combining several treatments to prevent clots and therefore a stroke, and to tame the wild electrical impulses of the atria.


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 24, 2011)

Ditch said:


> Digitalis is a very old drug. It's levels are very hard to control in the body.


 Agreed. My doc knows this too, and wants to do a blood test five days from now. The pharmacist also mentioned toxicity plus the narrow therapeutic window. Seems bradycardia is the most common vital sign change but as I have a BP monitor, if this occurs I'll be the first to know. 





> From Wikipedia..Today, the most common indications for digoxin are probably atrial fibrillation and atrial flutter with rapid ventricular response, but beta- or calcium channel- blockers should be the first choice.


 I seem to recall reading something to the effect that beta-blockers are contraindicated in my particular situation. Don't remember the details or where I read it.


> Chances are the doctor that you are seeing is quite old and set in his treatment modalities. You can ask him about the newer drugs that are available as you should be combining several treatments to prevent clots and therefore a stroke, and to tame the wild electrical impulses of the atria.


To be fair, this guy has been an overworked one-man band in a relatively isolated community for many years. His way of managing is to send the ones in the "too-hard" basket to specialists in the big city. I'm in that category and am seeing a cardiologist on April 1st.


----------



## Ditch (Mar 24, 2011)

I'm in that category and am seeing a cardiologist on April 1st.

Good for you Ox. If beta blockers are contraindicated, perhaps calcium channel blockers will help. It's really quite amazing that any of us are alive at all. The sodium potassium pump is a mechanism of the heart that must take place _*with each beat of our heart. *_The cell walls "open up" and pumps sodium then potassium in and then out of each cell for the next beat to occur. The heart polarizes and signals are sent to the conduction pathways. The SA node fires then a small amount of electricity travels down through the atria causing them to contract in a downward fashion forcing the blood into the ventricles.

They meet in the atrioventricullar node and pause. It is like a gatekeeper to stall the impulse and allow for ventricular filling. Then the signal travels into the Bundle of His (Like a conduit) into the left and right bundle branches. These terminate into fine nerves called the Perkkinge fibers that cause the ventricles to contract from the bottom up, the left side feeding the entire body with oxygenated blood and the right pumping it through the lungs. Then the heart must repolarize and do it all over again, 24/7, 365 days a year.

Most of the time, this is handled by the autonomic nervous system. The parasympathetic nervous system is the "feed and breed" part. It takes care of food digestion, the heartbeat while asleep and other boring things. The sympathetic nervous system is a more rapid response. It is the part that takes over heart innervation and rapidly speeds it up like when you hear a car door slam and she says, "_*Oh my God! It's my husband! Get in the closet!*_" or a car suddenly comes into your lane. Amazing, isn't it?


----------



## Writ-with-Hand (Mar 24, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> There prolly wouldn’t be more than three of you lot who’d recognise that quote. It’s part of a satirical song by the same name, from the era of President Johnson and Vietnam and ICBMs aimed at Cuba.
> 
> Whatever, I’m here because of Elizabeth Taylor.



That broad was old, Ox, it was her time. If she ever had anything to do with Michael Jackson receiving little boys to sexually molest she had better made her confession before her ticket was punched. Assuming MJ actually was guilty of the above of course. But that's not what this thread is about.

Who's that broad Adolf Hitler was married to? Didn't that broad wear bathing suits, get compliments from blokes, and live a life of material and celebrity comfort? I think she was literate, probably had a "refine" choice in books, and read under the light of a lampshade made out of hide of Jews. 

I don't know enough about ET to know how great or not of a woman she was. I know she was old as ancient by the time of her death. I asked my German-American grandmother, shortly before she died, if she was afraid of dying? She responded back calmly, that we all have to die.





Sorry to here about your diagnose, Ox. I hope all goes well with you with that. I enjoy having you around on the forum.


----------



## Ditch (Mar 24, 2011)

One thing is certain Writ, none of us are getting out of here alive. We may live on as I believe that we do, but we all have to die first. Isn't that what baptism symbolizes? Being plunged into the water, then rising again to breathe the air?


----------



## Foxee (Mar 24, 2011)

Wishing you the very best, Ox. You know that the little blips and squiggles (and the people who write them) are here for you.

Elizabeth Taylor was a beauty though I preferred Audrey Hepburn in her youth. Of course, I'm looking at women a little differently than you, I suppose.


----------



## Bruno Spatola (Mar 24, 2011)

Dead? Man. . .I've had a crush on her since I was five, when I watched Chicago on VHS. She was a great actress; always compared to her mother. She was brilliant in Arrested Development; had naturally spot on comedic timing that very few people possess, I think. 

It's not like I knew her but, she was still an idol of mine. .

Edit: I may have gotten confused with _Liza Minnelli_, star of _Cabaret_ not _Chicago_. I'm really sorry! Nothin' to see here, I'm an idiot.


----------



## Gumby (Mar 24, 2011)

Hang in there, Ox, we are all pulling for you.


----------



## Baron (Mar 24, 2011)

Foxee said:


> Wishing you the very best, Ox. You know that the little blips and squiggles (and the people who write them) are here for you.
> 
> Elizabeth Taylor was a beauty though I preferred Audrey Hepburn in her youth. Of course, I'm looking at women a little differently than you, I suppose.



The American Film Industry agrees with you.  On their list of 100 greatest stars Audrey Hepburn is placed third and Liz Taylor trails her at seventh.  In first Place is Katharine Hepburn and in second, Bette Davis.

AFI's 100 Years...100 Stars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Writ-with-Hand (Mar 24, 2011)

Ditch said:


> One thing is certain Writ, none of us are getting out of here alive. We may live on as I believe that we do, but we all have to die first. *Isn't that what baptism symbolizes? Being plunged into the water, then rising again to breathe the air?*



Hmm... never thought of it that way before. :-k


----------



## Guy Faukes (Mar 24, 2011)

My condolences, Ox. Keep on cheatin' death, man.




Ditch said:


> Isn't that what baptism symbolizes? Being plunged into the water, then rising again to breathe the air?


 
Thankfully it just symbolizes rebirth. Imagine being dipped in birthing fluid, naked and screaming.


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 24, 2011)

Baron said:


> The American Film Industry agrees with you. On their list of 100 greatest stars Audrey Hepburn is placed third and Liz Taylor trails her at seventh. In first Place is Katharine Hepburn and in second, Bette Davis.


I would have thought Goldie Hawn topped the list. Or Paris Hilton. Or maybe Pamela Anderson.


----------



## Foxee (Mar 24, 2011)

guy_faukes said:


> Imagine being dipped in birthing fluid, naked and screaming.


 I think the first birth was enough for that. Thank goodness baptism just involves water...and clothes!


----------



## Like a Fox (Mar 24, 2011)

*hugs* 
Sorry to hear, Ox.


----------



## Eluixa (Mar 24, 2011)

Been there with the heart rate. Keep a really good eye on your thyroid hormone status. Maybe try dessicated. I know it is looked down upon, but your body may not be able to make t3 out of the stored T4 you are taking. My heart rate came down on it's own, but I was taking dessicated Armour. Might be worth a try. Be thinking about you Ox.


----------



## Dudester (Mar 25, 2011)

I’ve seen a lot of Liz tributes the past few days and the only Liz Taylor I knew was the overweight one that Joan Rivers hurled insults at. 

For me, the pinup is Phoebe Cates. In history, there have only been two perfect things, and if you’ve ever seen the swimming pool scene from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, you know what those two things are. 

edit-What song are you listening to ? Whenever I hear The Cars "Living in Stereo" a memorable scene comes to mind.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Mar 25, 2011)

I must be one of those three, though it was Sophia Lorene stirred my teenage heart, remember "Never on a Sunday"? Probably banned in Australia.

There were a bunch of his songs I can still remember just about all the words to
She drowned her father in the creek
The water tasted bad for a week

He gives the kids free samples because he knows full well
That today's young innocent faces are tomorrows clientel

The once lived a man called Oedipus Rex
You may have heard about his odd complex

Great stuff, thanks for the reminder.

Hey writ. there was a quote from Marcus Aurelius along the lines that he was not scared of death, it is a natural process and only fools and children are scared by natural processes. Good thinking to my mind, get on with the living bit as best you can while you can, the rest will come in it's own good time.

You too Ox, don't anticipate it, you could waste a lot of good living time worrying.


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 25, 2011)

Olly Buckle said:


> I must be one of those three, though it was Sophia Lorene stirred my teenage heart, remember "Never on a Sunday"? Probably banned in Australia.


 
Sophia Loren starred in quite a few movies with a love theme around that time, but Never On Sunday wasn’t one of them. That was Melina Mercouri. And no, it wasn’t banned here.

Isn’t it amazing how after all these years one can _just_ close their eyes and hear that theme song? 

“Only stay away on my day of rest”


----------



## Candra H (Mar 25, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> There prolly wouldn’t be more than three of you lot who’d recognise that quote. It’s part of a satirical song by the same name, from the era of President Johnson and Vietnam and ICBMs aimed at Cuba.
> 
> Whatever, I’m here because of Elizabeth Taylor.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know the song but it's appropriate. My mum talks about a similar worry when she sees people her age dying. She's only in her fifties but she's observed a lot of deaths in her age group recently and she's come to the conclusion that if a person can survive till they're sixty they'll probably make it to their eighties. Kind of like a cut-off date or something. Doesn't really make sense to me typing it or even thinking about it in my thirties but I can sort of see where she's coming from.

Thats rough, Ox, about the heart rhythm, or lack thereof. Not much else to say other than good luck and hopefully you'll long outlive your peers.


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 25, 2011)

Candra H said:


> hopefully you'll long outlive your peers.


 
Thanks Candra and welcome back. There's just one person here I want to outlive, then I'll die happy. :-\"


----------



## Candra H (Mar 25, 2011)

You're welcome and thank you for the welcome.

I'll make no comment or attempt to speculate on the person you want to outlive. Egos are sensitive things.


----------



## JosephB (Mar 25, 2011)

Yeah! Welcome back, Candra!


----------



## ewan (Mar 25, 2011)

Ox
   You have had a brush with the angel of death, it has made you stop and think of your own mortality. We don't live for ever but it is still a shock to be so near to something that you may have put off thinking about indefinably. At the moment you may be fearful, anxious and wondering why you. All that is very natural. You have received some very positive and friendly advice and best wishes and some not so tactful remarks and have taken it all equitably. But you now realise you are on your own and if the worse happens life would go on as normal without you. 

Don't lose heart. I wish you all the very best in healing and in getting on with your life. Treasure every day, count your blessings, enjoy the sunshine and live every moment to its full. Remember this is not the end, death is the beginning, seek the Lord whilst you may.

regards
Ewan


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 25, 2011)

When I die, can I go to some happy land where there are no Christians?


----------



## ppsage (Mar 25, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> When I die, can I go to some happy land where there are no Christians?



Not sure about happy but count on the rest. Anyway, good luck with all that. I for one appreciate how much you're sharing here and what it gives me to consider. In appreciation, pp. 

ps For me, ET is the standard against which that other gender is measured. For better AND worse.


----------



## Baron (Mar 25, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> When I die, can I go to some happy land where there are no Christians?


 
You might get half of that request.


----------



## Dudester (Mar 26, 2011)

ewan said:


> Ox
> You have had a brush with the angel of death, it has made you stop and think of your own mortality. We don't live for ever but it is still a shock to be so near to something that you may have put off thinking about indefinably. At the moment you may be fearful, anxious and wondering why you. All that is very natural. You have received some very positive and friendly advice and best wishes and some not so tactful remarks and have taken it all equitably. But you now realise you are on your own and if the worse happens life would go on as normal without you.
> 
> Don't lose heart. I wish you all the very best in healing and in getting on with your life. Treasure every day, count your blessings, enjoy the sunshine and live every moment to its full. Remember this is not the end, death is the beginning, seek the Lord whilst you may.
> ...



From 1987 to 1989 I was Military Police. From 1989 to 1994, I was on gang task force in a large city. Gang task force was like being a sniper again, I was a predator out there stalking prey. I had a degree in Constitutional Law. I could, very quickly, outwit some street thug whose understanding of law was something he saw on Judge Judy or some Law and Order series. It’s quite easy to arrest on probable cause, even if the charge doesn’t stick-now I got their fingerprints on file, and when a burglary comes up, we take prints, and BINGO !!

So, I also was consumed by it. I often worked 90 to 100 hours a week, and they let me. I was the favorite of an Assistant Chief because I always got results. I even outwitted defense lawyers a couple of times (just a couple). But one day, I woke up with a really bad feeling. That day, at work, I stumbled into a gang fight where I could’ve been seriously hurt. Two days later, I put in my notice. 

Three days after my last day, I pick up the newspaper and there’s a story in there. It turns out that the guy who took my place and my beat, had followed a felon into a public restroom. The felon got the drop on my replacement, pointing a .25 at his forehead. The felon pulled the trigger. The hammer hit the firing pin. The firing pin hit the bullet. The bullet, for whatever reason, didn’t go off. 

There but for the grace of God go I.


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 26, 2011)

Dudester said:


> Three days after my last day, I pick up the newspaper and there’s a story in there. It turns out that the guy who took my place and my beat, had followed a felon into a public restroom. The felon got the drop on my replacement, pointing a .25 at his forehead. The felon pulled the trigger. The hammer hit the firing pin. The firing pin hit the bullet. The bullet, for whatever reason, didn’t go off.
> 
> There but for the grace of God go I.


We all have stories to tell about near misses. I’ve survived an 80mph rollover in an old open car, had a confrontation with a gun-wielding cuckolded husband, and faced two potential head-on collisions at highway speeds, and I don’t believe any god was involved in any of it.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Mar 26, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> Sophia Loren starred in quite a few movies with a love theme around that time, but Never On Sunday wasn’t one of them. That was Melina Mercouri. And no, it wasn’t banned here.
> 
> Isn’t it amazing how after all these years one can _just_ close their eyes and hear that theme song?
> 
> “Only stay away on my day of rest”


 
Why are you always so b----y right?


----------



## The Backward OX (Mar 26, 2011)

Olly Buckle said:


> Why are you always so b----y right?


It's a hard job but someone's gotta do it.


It's something to do with eidetic mem'ry


----------



## Candra H (Mar 28, 2011)

JosephB said:


> Yeah! Welcome back, Candra!


 
Haha. Thanks Joe.


----------

