# How would a gang initiation be done without the new member squealing exactly?



## ironpony (Nov 5, 2018)

For my story, the gang of villains wishes to recruit a new member.  However, there are two ways they can go about this I figure.

1.  They can tell the new person they wish to recruit that they are a gang long in advance before the actual initiation and ask the new person if he would like to do the initiation to join.

2.  They could trick the new member into the initiation by complete surprise, and thereby forcing him to do it cause he didn't see it coming and therefore has to do it, with no backing out.

Since I'm writing a screenplay, I thought of movies as examples, and one movie that came to mind that had an initiation test was Training Day (2001).  Here is a clip of the initiation.  

I might have to give a warning of violence and language:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRyBDJAI_s0

Of course in that scene the new recruit doesn't go through the initiation but they still ambushed him with the test by surprise, so they could hold it over his head, if he decided not to do it.  So I am wondering, would a gang of criminals do it that way, or the first way, where they would tell him they are gang wanting him, before setting up an initiation, and that way they can prep him for it better, and he knows what he is committing too.

What do you think?


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## epimetheus (Nov 5, 2018)

Depends on the gang. Their initiation ritual should say something about them. A gang which gives advance warning sounds like it wants its initiates to be able to plan and prepare. A gang springing surprises sounds like it wants members with good reactions and mental fortitude. The former dealers in stolen art, the latter dealers in violence perhaps.


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## ironpony (Nov 5, 2018)

Oh okay, I would say my initiations are more about violence per say.  However, by getting them to do it by surprise, would that ensure that they are more likely to do it under pressure, and therefore will not call the cops on the gang then?  As oppose to the gang asking someone beforehand and planning ahead, it gives that person time to call the cops, out of fear of the gang, saying they were just asked to do a gang initiation.


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## Ralph Rotten (Nov 5, 2018)

Gangs have a variety of ways to initiate. From running the gauntlet to committing a crime in view of other members.

Some gangs make initiates intern before they can join, mainly as a way to vet new candidates, figure out which ones are not undercover agents. Some biker gangs actually have a patch or insignia for members who have committed a felony in front of other members (as evidence).  The Hammerskins (racist group) wear red shoelaces to signify the minority blood they have spilled (greenhorns don;t get to wear them.)

So the initiation in your story would likely fit the gang's needs.


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## ironpony (Nov 5, 2018)

Well in this case, they are recruiting a cop into the gang.  They know it's a cop and that is why they want the cop cause they are hoping that the cop would make a good informer for them, within the police department.  But they have to put the cop through some sort of test to see if he will actually join, or he is going to want to bust them instead.


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## ned (Nov 6, 2018)

what? - a gang approaches a cop to join them? - that doesn't sound plausible or a good idea, for all sorts of reasons.

more believable and tense if the cop approached the gang to join them - they give the cop a 'hit' to carry out,
possibly another cop for drama - and we'll see what happens.......


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## epimetheus (Nov 6, 2018)

In that case i would expect the gang would like something that betrays the police force and generates evidence of the crime: something like revealing the identity of an undercover cops' family. Some sort of unforgivable betrayal of trust. That way they have some control over the corrupt cop. Not a very action packed initiation i know, but would be suitable for a very organised and disciplined gang.


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## Ralph Rotten (Nov 6, 2018)

More likely they would simply watch him commit crimes to be sure he was bonafide. 
Criminal organizations are social organizations, you don't just initiate everyone who shows up at your door.
You get to know the guy, party with 'em, smoke some dope with 'em, commit some crimes with 'em.
You don't bring an unknown quantity into your gang. 

And really, the group you describe is more of a crew than a gang.


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## ironpony (Nov 6, 2018)

ned said:


> what? - a gang approaches a cop to join them? - that doesn't sound plausible or a good idea, for all sorts of reasons.
> 
> more believable and tense if the cop approached the gang to join them - they give the cop a 'hit' to carry out,
> possibly another cop for drama - and we'll see what happens.......



Okay thanks.  Well I want the cop to back out of the initiation though and not be able to do it.  If the cop is so eager to join them, then why would he all of a sudden not be able to go through with it cause it's what he wanted?

Plus how is the cop suppose to find the gang, since the police do not know who any of them are at this point in the story?  Because of that, I feel the gang would have to approach the cop, but one of them knows the cop from before.  The cop doesn't know that his friend is a gang member, but the friend knows he will likely say yes though.

Or the cop could tell his friend that he wishes he could join the so and so gang, not realizing that his friend is one of the members, and then his friend gets the idea to ask him since he wants to, perhaps?


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## ned (Nov 6, 2018)

yes IP - this highlights the problem of the premise -

no cop, recruited or otherwise, will plausibly want to join a gang as a gang member -
sure, they might have dealings with a gang - bribes for info or turning a blind eye perhaps.

but not initiated - unless the cop is undercover of course.


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## ironpony (Nov 6, 2018)

Well yes the cop may not want to be an official member.  But even if they use him for info, the gang still has to know if they can trust him that he is not undercover or will not tell his superiors or anything, so they still have to have the cop go through an initiation and commit some sort of crime for them to see if they can trust him.  So wouldn't he still have to undergo some sort of initiation?


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## ned (Nov 7, 2018)

you're over-complicating things IP -

once a cop takes a bribe, and is good on it - then the cop has already committed a crime and is in the gang's pocket.
if the cop is not good on it, then the cop would become a target.

that's all the initiation required......keep it simple.


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## ironpony (Nov 7, 2018)

Okay thanks.  But how does the gang know that the cop didn't 'pretend' to take the bribe, and is actually working undercover, with the department looking to bust the gang.  The cop could be a double agent so to speak, willing to pretend to take bribes while feeding the gang false into and it could all be part of a police sting operation.  So wouldn't the gang have to get the cop to commit some sort of crime, to hang over his head, so they know that the cop is going to accept bribes for real, and not just pretend to as a part of a sting?

I mean a lot of times a in fiction anyway, an gang of criminals will have a new recruit commit a crime to prove he is not an undercover cop.  So wouldn't the same principle apply to get a cop to commit a crime to prove he is not a GOOD COP?

Cause any cop is allowed to pretend to take money as long as it's part of a sting.  Or basically when putting myself in the villain's shoes, I would always be worried that the cop might not actually be taking bribes but pretend to be taking them and it could all be part of a sting.  So I would want the cop to commit a crime for me to show that he is a corrupt cop and not a good cop.  Cause taking money is not enough, as undercover cops pretend to do that all the time.


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## ned (Nov 7, 2018)

you're not thinking it through IP - look at it with the rationale of a writer.

it's all about the motives for that first contact - and you're jumping ahead to the some sort of initiation that won't happen. 

gang contacts cop - 

they have something on the cop - married with 3 kids, but 10g down at the bookies - or visits the brothel every saturday afternoon.
he's approached in a bar/cafe by an anonymous intermediate who threatens to send the betting slips/photos to his wife, unless
they strike a deal of mutual benefit - with a sweetner on top perhaps.

what info has the cop got to tell his bosses? he is not going to be invited to the gang HQ to meet the boys for a guided tour of the coke factory.

cop approaches gang -

the cop has got to be desperate for money - who is he going to approach?
he busts a known dealer on the the street, but lets him go to pass on a message to his bosses. for a meet up in a bar etc etc
same as above.

motives drive the drama here, get those right and follow the consequences.
either way, the gang has nothing to lose, and the cop everything.


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## ironpony (Nov 7, 2018)

Okay thanks.   So if the gang doesn't have to do an initiation cause they are just going after someone who is blackmail-able in the first place, how come gangs don't do that in real life then?  How come gangs have initiations when they can just recruit members with prior blackmail-able history instead?

As for your examples though, visiting a brothel is a misdemeanor, I read, and desperate for money is not really a crime.  Wouldn't the gang want something they could hold over the cops head, like proof of a felony he committed, rather than a misdemeanor?  Photos with a hooker is not what I would call losing everything, but that is just how I see it.


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## ned (Nov 18, 2018)

for the majority of us, I would think losing our marriage is losing everything - if you don't empathize with that, what can I say...

the initiation, if you must, is whether the cop complies with the terms of the bribe or not.

Bob's Barbers Shop is on his patch - here's 500 bucks a week to stay out of Bob's Barber Shop -

the shop means nothing to the gang - but time will tell if the cop is corrupt, takes the money and leaves it alone -
then the gang have something on him - 

or he busts the place, fruitlessly, and the gang know he's not to be trusted.....

are we up to chapter two yet?


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## ironpony (Nov 18, 2018)

Okay thanks.  I am finished most of the story, just going back and refining things here and there.  I have the who, what, why, where, but not the HOW in a lot of parts necessarily.


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## Pallandozi (Sep 6, 2020)

ironpony said:


> What do you think?



I think that, in addition to the initiation testing for an attribute the gang requires, it would probably also involve breaking the law or doing something else that gives the gang power over the member, as a guard against the member later betraying them.


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## ironpony (Sep 7, 2020)

Oh okay, what do you mean by a guard over the member betraying him exactly?


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## Lee Messer (Sep 7, 2020)

An undercover cop would go through with it, no matter what the requirement was. The situation is set up so that the initiate automatically has to commit a crime by way of guilt by association. The law states that anyone with knowledge of a crime not reporting such crime is guilty of the same charges. What gangs do now as initiation is implicate a prospect to lock them into a circle of trust. If we are guilty, so are you. After so many of these occur, a murder must happen. The ultimate sin is murder. After that, your in. It's as simple as a brotherhood in arms... but also in crime.

That's how they've done it for centuries.


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## ironpony (Sep 7, 2020)

Oh well in my story, since the gang of villains is commiting rape crimes as their M.O., the initiation to get in, is commiting the same crime.  It's not as bad as murder but it matches their M.O., if that makes sense?

The new recruit is not an undercover cop though.


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## ironpony (Sep 7, 2020)

But why would a gang trust a new person in dealings without some sort of initiation?  Wouldn't a crooked cop still need to do an initiation just to have dealings?  Why would a gang have dealings with a cop and trust that cop without any type of test?

Why do police moles get a free pass on trust, to the point where they are immune to the same tests?


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