# Finding ideas, creating story lines, developing plots, etc.



## Guard Dog (Oct 18, 2018)

I've noticed that some folks seem to have trouble coming up with things to write about, or developing their story ideas.

Now maybe I just have too much imagination, but I see story ideas, plots, and the makings of good characters all over the place... especially since computers and the internet have come along.

So many, in fact, that I'm amazed that no one else seems to see them. But then I think maybe people just haven't learned _HOW_ to see them.

So here's my suggestion(s) on the subject:

For starters, learn to apply "What if" to anything you see or read that's of interest to you.

Say you notice Donald Trump's hair looks like an alien life form of some kind... Okay, "what if" it were? What if was actually controlling him? What if it had "infected" a large number of members of the U.S. government?

Or how about the Flat Earthers?  What if they were actually right?

Big foot? What if those are actually the evolutionary "end point" for humanoid life forms on this planet, and that the human race was put here by someone else? And what if they get tired of hiding and decide they've had enough of humans and all the trouble they cause?

See? It's pretty easy to find ideas. All you have to do is find something that interests you, take it apart, dig down to it's roots, then turn it on it's ear with "what if".

And although I've mentioned sci-fi/fantasy type things here, it'll work with any genre you care to apply it to. Historical fiction, romance, horror... you name it.

Just spend an hour or two looking through videos on YouTube, and you should be able to come up with more ideas than you can write about. Read the news pages for a while, and apply the same sort of thinking to them, and the list will grow exponentially. Throw movies and TV in there, start mixing and matching, and you should never lack for something to write about. Ever.

It's just a matter of thinking outside the box, as the saying goes, then letting the the idea(s) lead you wherever your imagination takes you.

And one other thing; don't throw anything out, or disregard something because it sounds too silly, or too preposterous. Find a way to make it at least semi-believable. Especially since truth _is_ often times stranger than fiction, and simply coming at things from a direction other than the usual can change the entire aspect of a thought or idea. ( Think about what someone in the 10th century would've thought about Smart Phones, for instance... How absolutely ridiculous would the average Norseman have found THAT idea? )

So, that'll do for now.  I'll add to it later, after I hear from some of the rest of you. For now, I'm curious to see where this conversation leads, and what some of you come up with. 

And remember, it's only a matter of turning the mundane or preposterous into the believable and interesting by "what if-ing" them into usable shape.



G.D.


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## Theglasshouse (Oct 18, 2018)

Yes. What you said about what if was what I planned on doing when I saw something inspirational on TV. Just add a what if, and you can make a new plot happen. Wanting to write something original is difficult. Writers are always trying to look out for the next big idea or it is just a fear of writers? What if my work becomes a cliched plot; or that I or the readers and writers have read or seen too many times? It is definitely is a good way to come up with a lot of ideas during a period of time.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 18, 2018)

Theglasshouse said:


> What if my work becomes a cliched plot; or that I or the readers and writers have read or seen too many times?



Then find a twist you can throw in there. Turn it around so that it ends in an unexpected way, instead of the "usual". Or make it take a really odd path to get to the usual conclusion.

What I'm trying to say here is recognize the plot for what it is - cliched - and just throw out everything you know about that sort of plot, and how it usually runs. Go find examples of similar plots, then dissect them, and both remove some things and add others. Play with it until it's not really recognizable as what it was.

Take Star Wars, for example... Change out Han and the princess.... Make Han Luke's brother, and have them come into conflict over Leia. Then twist the knife a little harder and have her fall for Vader instead of either of them, deciding the Empire is the right way to go after all. Then just let it run where it leads you. If it starts coming back to the usual course, smack it again.

You'd end up with a whole different movie, wouldn't you?

My point here is that if you know where a plot usually ends up, and how... don't let it do that. Make it go somewhere else. Whether or not you use the usual path, but throw an unexpected fork in the road somewhere is up to you, since it doesn't have to end the way it "normally" might.





G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 18, 2018)

Don't just sit there and laugh, DarkGhost... You've gotta have thoughts on this, or else ya wouldn't be here lurking.

No need to be bashful. Speak up and let us hear what's on your mind.




G.D.


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## DarkGhost (Oct 19, 2018)

use historical events but in a totally different setting, like the Maginot line in France, but put it in space to guard the astreoid minefields of against predatory alien life forms. Just an idea.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

DarkGhost said:


> use historical events but in a totally different setting, like the Maginot line in France, but put it in space to guard the astreoid minefields of against predatory alien life forms. Just an idea.



And a very good one. So good, in fact, that Gene Roddenberry used it to pitch Star Trek... He told the folks he was selling it to that it was basically "Wagon Train in space". 

Now... go figure out how to make use of the Spanish Inquisition in the same circumstances.  :twisted:

That should give ya somethin' to do on your trip. 


G.D.


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## DarkGhost (Oct 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> Now... go figure out how to make use of the Spanish Inquisition in the same circumstances.  :twisted:
> 
> That should give ya somethin' to do on your trip.



Maybe! But I think I got enough on my plate right now.


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## DarkGhost (Oct 19, 2018)

Crap! I messed that up


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

DarkGhost said:


> Crap! I messed that up



So go fix it.  Use the Edit function, and put this: [  /  QUOTE  ] without the extra spaces between everything, at the end of the quote.




G.D.

Edit: This keeps up, I'm gonna have to start charging for computer/Forum lessons. 
And trust me, it'll be cheaper if you just go read a few of the stickies on posting here.


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## DarkGhost (Oct 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> Edit: This keeps up, I'm gonna have to start charging for computer/Forum lessons.
> And trust me, it'll be cheaper if you just go read a few of the stickies on posting here.


Got it thanks, that should be it.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

Characters... no story is worth reading or telling without good ones. And the better the characters, the better the story usually ends up... even if the plot is weak, or the story has been told a million times already.

So... how do you do that?  

Well, ya don't need a degree in psychology or psychiatry. A basic working knowledge of how people tend to think and act is pretty handy though. 

Being observant and thinking about what you see, what you like or dislike in a person, and why, are pretty fundamental and necessary skills, since it's fairly impossible to write about something you know nothing of. 

For me, it's just a matter of sticking in the traits I see in myself and other people. I take plenty of notes, and also try to give the character a fairly detailed backstory.

So after deciding if this person is strong or weak-willed, is shy and timid or flamboyant and boisterous, I start working on the rest.

Intelligent, or kind'a slow? Patient or impatient, etc. What sort of weaknesses or fears do they have? What sort of flaws do they have?

And what have they been through that makes them the way they are? What have they NEVER experienced that most other people probably have in some way or the other?

All of this stuff matters, and the more thorough you are in filling in the blanks, the better and more believable this "person" will be.

Also keep in mind that although you can make 'em as strong and fearless as you like, you still need to give them a flaw or weakness that an opponent can take advantage of. They can't be perfect.

So, once you've done all that, you can stick them in whatever situation you want, and let them deal with it.

But you have to remember to do just that; let _THEM_ deal with it. Based on all that stuff you've written down, not on how YOU would, or how you _want_ them to. Their reactions and actions need to stem from their own personality, not yours.

At least that's the goal.

Remember, cardboard people aren't good for much past pistol targets, and that real ones are the ones that tend to shoot back.


Hope this is of some use to folks.

G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 19, 2018)

> What if my work becomes a cliched plot; or that I or the readers and writers have read or seen too many times?


It seemed to me that the point was missed a bit here; start with a little 'What if?' and then expand. What if I then discover that everyone's writing is like this, nothing original is happening at all, and it is not just happening in fiction, researchers are effectively rewriting their previous papers. I was going to say 'and it's the same stuff in the newspapers every day'; but it already is 
Now, what could cause that, what would it do to the world? You are right about asking 'What if?', but to my mind that is just a starter, there are lots of questions to ask afterwards. 

I wonder if the people who can't think of plot were the annoying kids with parents who told them to shut up and stop asking stupid questions, the ones who write different and imaginative stories are the ones whose parents said things like 'He's so bright and off the wall.'  Can't think of plot? time you left your past behind where it belongs and look to the future. Now, what if ...


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> I wonder if the people who can't think of plot were the annoying kids with parents who told them to shut up and stop asking stupid questions, the ones who write different and imaginative stories are the ones whose parents said things like 'He's so bright and off the wall.'  Can't think of plot? time you left your past behind where it belongs and look to the future. Now, what if ...



And I suspect the ones who can't imagine things - or stories - being any different are the ones who became so enamored with "what is", that they lost the ability to think of things ever being any different.

As far as "what was" goes, remember that those who do not or cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The same is true of stories and writing; if you can't learn from what has come before, and imagine it being any different... then all you're ever likely to do is keep repeating the same old thing.

Don't settle for what was or what is. Keep reaching until you find what's to come.



G.D.


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## bdcharles (Oct 19, 2018)

Great thread. It's definitely good to have a reminder of how to get into the ideas mindset.

Often my challenge is getting excited enough by the what-ifs to want to write about them and explore their possibilities. That and having the right characters for the job. It all has to match up, for me.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

bdcharles said:


> That and having the right characters for the job. It all has to match up, for me.



Funny, but for me, the mismatches are often times the most rewarding and entertaining. 

Or at least forcing them through a situation where they have to change to succeed is...

But then I suppose that depends on what you mean by the term "match up".

Does it mean someone who're "ready made" for the task, or someone who can adapt, change, and become what's needed to get the job done?

...or something else entirely?




G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 19, 2018)

> Don't settle for what was or what is. Keep reaching until you find what's to come.


Then of course there is also the, 'What could have been?', or 'What might be?' Not to mention the who, which, where, when, and how.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> Then of course there is also the, 'What could have been?', or 'What might be?' Not to mention the who, which, where, when, and how.



Hey now... let's not warp their young minds too much too fast.

We need to save something for later, after all. 

You know, for when they start to get cocky, and think they have it whipped? :wink:



G.D.

P.S. the 5 "W's" is next on the list; The "Who What When Where and Why"of a plot. "How" comes later, since I think it's the least important.


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## bdcharles (Oct 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> Funny, but for me, the mismatches are often times the most rewarding and entertaining.
> 
> Or at least forcing them through a situation where they have to change to succeed is...
> 
> ...



It's more like the character has to fit the world the what-if happens in, otherwise they won't be able to be themselves. I struggle to write using characters I am not highly emotionally invested in; I mean, I can do it, but I don't really want to, so what does tend to happen then is the what-if becomes a subplot in the relatable character's world, rather than the whole thing in ours. 

Yes, its complicated; yes it can lead to trilogies


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

bdcharles said:


> It's more like the character has to fit the world the what-if happens in, otherwise they won't be able to be themselves. I struggle to write using characters I am not highly emotionally invested in; I mean, I can do it, but I don't really want to, so what does tend to happen then is the what-if becomes a subplot in the relatable character's world, rather than the whole thing in ours.




 The highlighting up there is my doing... because it emphasizes the importance of the character having a back story... one that ensures that they fit into the world they find themselves in.

Yes, you can certainly shoehorn an inappropriate character into any story, but they'll always stand out like a sore thumb.




bdcharles said:


> Yes, its complicated; yes it can lead to trilogies



Hell, "complicated" can lead to an entire series of a dozen or more, if you're not careful. 

By the way, just so any new people reading this don't get the wrong idea... I'm not claiming to be any sort of "professional writer" here. Writing is something I've only recently found myself entangled with/in. However, I've been making up characters and stories for a very long time now. All my life, it seems. And by all reports, it's something that I'm at least fairly good at.

I just wish my writing skills were as good. 



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 19, 2018)

Okay, you've found your idea, and you've thought up a good story. You probably even have a few characters outlined that'll fit into all of that, and have fleshed them out to some degree.

That means it's time to sort out and lay out the plot. And that is nothing more than the path the story is going to take to get from the beginning, to the last two words of the story; "The End".

Keep in mind that this doesn't have to be set in stone... it can and probably will make all sorts of twists and turns you didn't plan on, and couldn't see when you started. I know mine certainly did.

So it's up to you to decide just how closely you're gonna want to follow what you first intended, or if that unplanned growth is worth keeping or not, and needs to be pruned back.

But before you can get into all of that, you need to answer some questions:

Who?
What?
When?
Where?
Why?

Most of these will need 2 or more answers.

*Who* - The Protagonist and the Antagonist, as well as the rest of the cast.

If you're like me, and obsessive-compulsive, you'll have a fair number of the "rest of the cast" already worked out. If not, it's perfectly okay to develop them as the story proceeds, so long as they _are_ developed and consistent through the story, and not just a 2-d "place-holder".

An incidental character that's only ever seen once doesn't really need much attention, but if he/she/it pops back up later, you'll want anything else they do or say to be consistent with their previous appearance.

*What* - The conflict. The thing that drives the story. What started it, and what is it's nature? What indecent kicks things off and sets the entire story into motion?

"What" can have a LOT of answers, and be quite complicated. Or it can be so simple as to be ridiculous. It just needs to make some sort of sense. Hopefully to both the reader, and the characters themselves.

*When* - What time period are we in? The distant past, the present, or the far-flung future? Also, does this occur in a fairly short period of time, or does it cover many years, decades, or even centuries?

Or has it already been going on for a long period of time, and the reader is getting dropped of in a particular segment of that time?

*Where* - Seems pretty obvious and simple, at first glance, but having a good idea of the location or locations the story is going to happen in can get complicated in a hurry. 

And having at least an idea of where it's gonna go, and how people are gonna get there is a good thing to have in mind from the beginning.

Still, even for that, new places and new people can pop up along the way.

And once again, it just depends on the writer's opinion of whether these things are a good idea and make the story more interesting, or if they overly-complicate things and bog the whole works down. 

Beta-readers may also find that some of the additions, or even some of the original settings just don't work, and suggest their removal or alteration. 

So there's that to keep in mind as well; the reader. They'll no doubt have opinions on all of it, and how much attention you pay to them is subject to no small amount of debate.

But then, it is your story, so you can tell it any damned way you please. Just don't plan on making too much money off of it if you completely ignore what people think about it.

*Why* - The reason things are going the way they are, instead of some other direction. 

What are the rules governing this story/world? 

Why do some characters behave one way, and others in an entirely different way, if that's part of the story?

Why can't someone take an easy or obvious course of action, rather than the one they chose?

Your readers are probably gonna want to know theses things, so you'd better have an answer in mind from the get-go.

Or be really good at making things up as you go along. 

Anyway, there ya go; my personal opinions and approach to creating an interesting story, and the things I consider from the very beginning.

If it works for you, great, but if you've got another idea or way of doing things that works for you, that's okay too.

Just so long as you get the job done.




G.D.


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## moderan (Oct 20, 2018)

Pro tip: 
Stop trying to be 'original'. Don't be afraid of writing something cliched. Those are pursuits for the experienced writer. Just write, learn how to manage character and plot mechanics, and the originality will come along. Your voice is unlike anyone else's -- you won't be able to hurry your development. It takes the time it takes.


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## Theglasshouse (Oct 20, 2018)

I agree with you that wanting to write with originality does more harm than good. That kind of thinking doesn't lead to many productive sessions of writing stories. It makes me have a bad conviction. A work that has used a old plot can be just as appreciated. That is what matters. To make readers feel the emotions is what I need to do. Especially if writers got away with it, that is what I should be doing. If not I would have written far less stories.  Most plots can be reinvented and rearranged to make it "original" or to write it so that it is a new story. I'll incorporate old plots in my stories.


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## Guard Dog (Oct 20, 2018)

Theglasshouse said:


> Most plots can be reinvented and rearranged to make it "original" or to write it so that it is a new story. I'll incorporate old plots in my stories.



To me, a plot or story-line is nothing more than the map or path through the story... that course that goes from the beginning to the end. 

And like a sailor plotting a course on a navigational chart, there should be waypoints... places you reach that let you know you're going in the right direction.

For me, most of the time, I don't make those waypoints immovable. If I discover a good reason to shift 'em, and there's no obstacle preventing it, I let 'em shift.

I'm also not adverse to doubling back and catching one I missed if I need to. Or just move it further "downstream" if possible.

I basically have tried to let the story determine it's own course, within reason.

After all, if it's interesting, the characters are growing, questions are being both asked and answered, and conflicts are arising and being resolved... why not?



G.D.


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## ArrowInTheBowOfTheLord (Nov 27, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> basically "Wagon Train in space".
> 
> Now... go figure out how to make use of the Spanish Inquisition in the same circumstances.  :twisted:
> 
> G.D.



Warhammer already did that :-D


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## Guard Dog (Nov 27, 2018)

ArrowInTheBowOfTheLord said:


> Warhammer already did that :-D



So? Do it again.

...only better. :hell_pawn:

Here, a little inspiration:
[video=youtube;LnF1OtP2Svk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnF1OtP2Svk[/video]

The Spanish Inquisition - Mel Brooks




G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 27, 2018)

Theglasshouse said:


> I agree with you that wanting to write with originality does more harm than good. That kind of thinking doesn't lead to many productive sessions of writing stories. It makes me have a bad conviction. A work that has used a old plot can be just as appreciated. That is what matters. To make readers feel the emotions is what I need to do. Especially if writers got away with it, that is what I should be doing. If not I would have written far less stories.  Most plots can be reinvented and rearranged to make it "original" or to write it so that it is a new story. I'll incorporate old plots in my stories.



I learned a lot by re writing a Kipling story, following every twist and turn. Of course I changed the main characters from a young officer and two grass widows to an undergraduate and two barmaids and the location from Shimla in India to an English university town. You really wouldn't recognise it. My adaptation of a story from Herodotus, 'The Histories' is a bit more freehand, and moves the story from Ancient Greece to an American Mafia family, they go on much the same, though the Greeks didn't have guns 

"The old ones are the best", and, "It's all in the way you tell them" are pretty true. There was a story in Herodotus I could just see someone using; some Greek mercenaries had captured the sons of the king leading the opposing army, before the battle they led them out and cut their throats over a bowl, mixed their blood with wine and shared it out all round as a pre-battle refreshment. Now! There is a way of making a statement !
"Dunno where my boy is , don't know why he didn't make it to the hog roast."
"Oh, but he did."


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## NathanielleC (Nov 27, 2018)

Here's my tip: Stop asking for permission. 

It took me years to realize that whenever that I posted an idea on a forum, people would tell me whether or not they believed I should pursue that. I wasn't flat out asking if they thought it was a good idea or not. Usually I'm asking something like, "Has anyone ever done this before or do you think it's possible to pull something like this off." 

And the common denominator in this is me. Which means whether I was asking it or not people were perceiving my question as, "Do I have your permission to write this?"

So I've stopped posting those kinds of threads. Sometimes I'll ask for advice about a specific point and sometimes the replies are very insightful. Other times I still get snarky comments and I'll just ignore those and focus on the people who actually responded to my question with thoughtful responses. But I don't ask permission. Ever.


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## Terry D (Nov 27, 2018)

Story ideas? Never a problem. I have a notebook where I write down story ideas -- I call them grombits -- it's jammed with ideas. But if you need a kick-start, just Google, 'ideas for fiction stories'. I did and on the first page alone there were links to 1,816 story ideas, and even a 'plot generator' which will give you randomly suggested ideas. Some are kind of wacky sounding, but might stimulate a stuck writer's creativity. 


https://www.plot-generator.org.uk/story-ideas/


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## ArrowInTheBowOfTheLord (Nov 27, 2018)

There's also the story idea donation bin, if you're really stuck https://www.writingforums.com/threa...onation-Bin?highlight=story+idea+donation+bin


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## ironpony (Nov 28, 2018)

Sometimes I come up with stories in joking conversations by accident.  Two ideas for stories I want to do have come up with this way, where me and friends will make a joke and come up with a ridiculous scenario for laughs, and then I am like hey wait a minute, that actually would make a good story, if done right!

Not sure if others come up with it this way though.


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## Theglasshouse (Nov 30, 2018)

You do need to know how to build a flawed character to write a story and plot for me at least. How you view the world and its people is important. That way you can set up a conflict because of your personal views on a group of people that can be negative. 

Opinions about people are subjective. If a person carries a negative opinion about people who belong to the police force for instance. Because for example of the events that sometimes appear on the news. You could say they have a belief system, of what the police do. Any subject is subjective. I am reading the wonderbook (jeff vandermeer). It gives good explanations on characterization. Basically, conflict starts with the character in my opinion. What do they believe, how do they react, how do they feel when something happens? You could also we are as if a filing cabinet of the real world experiences. What's your opinion on mentally ill people? What's your opinion on what is going on around you? Ever heard the wrong belief, as if an affirmation from someone in a conversation.

Some people stereotype and dislike certain qualities in people. Action and reaction are important as well. (I own the physical copy and kindle in case someone and would buy it in case someone needs craft advice)


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