# Fired my son in law to be this week



## Plasticweld (Oct 19, 2014)

I have over the years had hundreds of employees, fired more than I can even come close to counting.  More importantly I have some of the best employees that any company could ever have had over that same time span.  I am often a place to go for people who seemed to have run out of options or need a second chance.  I pay more than most, expect far more than anyone else when it comes to loyalty, honesty and hard work, which makes me either a tyrant or a blessing depending on your out look in life.


Adding my daughter into the equation has certainly made things more difficult, as son in law to be should have been fired long ago. 


  I guess the worst is behind us in one sense, but far more complicated in another sense.  Thanksgiving and Christmas are sure to be interesting


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## Mistique (Oct 19, 2014)

Sorry you had to do that. I can't imagine that was easy.


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## TKent (Oct 19, 2014)

That is tough


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## escorial (Oct 19, 2014)

you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family..........


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## Kevin (Oct 19, 2014)

The little talk:

This is what is expected, and this is what you're doing. It's nothing personal and pride of workmanship doesn't have to enter into it, but, the work has to be good enough so we can get paid. It's all about the customer and getting paid; maybe gaining a repeat customer or getting a referral. Reputation is important.  It's how we get work. 

Do the work as required, or don't. It's your choice. You don't _have_ to do anything.  If you choose not to do it that's fine, just let me know ahead of time. If you do it as I ask then I will pay you. If not, then you need to go somewhere else.


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## dither (Oct 19, 2014)

Life eh?


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## Plasticweld (Oct 19, 2014)

Kevin he got that speech and a version of it countless times.  He made a lot of money working for me and decided he did not have to do certain things.  We have been successful because so many people count on us, not only to get the work done but to do it right and do it for a fair price. 

I still work on a hand shake, for my construction business I do not even quote prices, we have done millions of dollars worth of work for customers who do not ask how much or for a contract.  The expectations are sky high. We always deliver and make sure their are no problems.  The pressure to perform is through the roof. The temptation to cut corners or be dishonest is very real and he basically fell victim to greed and short cuts.  He worked in both the lumber business and welding business, he had all sorts of potential and ability.  I could have made him a very wealthy guy, he would have only had to do as I asked, not as he wanted.  Human nature got the best of him. 


The sad part is that this effects my daughter in the long term given the amount of potential wealth involved.    I would have given anything for the chance he had verses building this up from nothing and learning the mistakes and going through some of the hardships I have struggled with over the years.  The part I don't get is that I am a business mentor for three other small business, if they seek me out for advice why is it he somehow thought he did not need it. 

 My little rant here. but feels better just to say something about it.  I have said very little to my wife about any of it, she only knows that there are changes in progress and that this is something that had to happen, but I have kept the details from her so as not to taint her opinion of him.  He is  a decent guy he just does not have the discipline or ethics for what we do.


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## Mistique (Oct 19, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> I would have given anything for the chance he had verses building this up from nothing and learning the mistakes and going through some of the hardships I have struggled with over the years.



But don't you think that perhaps the fact that you didn't get that chance and had to build it up for nothing has made you who you are today? and vice versa, the fact that he didn't have to start from nothing and didn't have to learn from his mistakes and go through that hardship might have made him 'not have the discipline and ethics' for what you do? I am not suggesting this is the case, as I don't know him or you well enough to make that judgement, but I am wondering.


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## Greimour (Oct 19, 2014)

Life Lesson number 4:

Give people what they earn, not what they want.

~~~

Some of life lessons are common practice. Sometimes though, you have to spell things out before people will get the message. 
If you ask someone to recite the Alphabet, they don't say: A.B, C, Y, Z. Yet you ask them to build a shed and they think it's OK to skip parts saying 'it'll be fine'

Sorry, but the Alphabet isn't likely to cause me injury if you skip a few letters. 

Maybe it's a good thing that you fired him. Perhaps now he will remember the full Alphabet (and know the value of each letter).
Metaphorically speaking, of course.


~Kev.


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## Plasticweld (Oct 19, 2014)

Mistique said:


> But don't you think that perhaps the fact that you didn't get that chance and had to build it up for nothing has made you who you are today? and vice versa, the fact that he didn't have to start from nothing and didn't have to learn from his mistakes and go through that hardship might have made him 'not have the discipline and ethics' for what you do? I am not suggesting this is the case, as I don't know him or you well enough to make that judgement, but I am wondering.




I consider myself successful based on many of the failures I have had in the past.  Even in the worst of times my ethics and morals were never part of the equation.  Tough times gives everyone more character.  We each have our own version of tough times no one is ever immune to that.  Depending on who you ask, I am either the luckiest guy alive or one dumb son of bitch for not having brains enough to know when to quit.

There is no better lesson than real life, no crueler teacher than failure.   Like anyone who traveled down the road, I have no problem sharing where the rough patches of road lay, so that they can be avoided


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## Plasticweld (Oct 19, 2014)

Kev. Money was never the issue, he earned what he was paid, the welding business that I am in is very lucrative.  It was the poor planning, the short cuts that would eventually catch up to him.  My customers to this day thought he did a fine job.  I could see from past experience where he was heading and I of coarse covered for his short comings and poor planning. 


In his defense I will offer this analogy.   You have spent countless hours with me trying to help me become a better writer.  What seems natural to you and comes with some relative measure of ease to you,  I struggle with.   If I try hard, take your advice, practice what you suggest I stand a chance to be able to someday call myself a writer.  It is not natural or easy for me but is attainable.

What son in law to be did not understand is that he did not naturally posses the skills needed.  He thought he was a good writer so did not need the help or advice from others even if they were gifted and talented.  Therefore, he did not try hard enough, he did not take advice, or practice what he was shown. 


I think of myself as a less than average in talent in everything I do, with a far better than average desire and drive than most to try and learn and succeed.  That makes me very patient with anyone has a strong desire and a willingness to learn no matter what their aptitude is. 


I have said this many times, my employees could all be from misfit island, yet they all seem to thrive here... If you can't make it at misfit island where are you going to make it?








Greimour said:


> Life Lesson number 4:
> 
> Give people what they earn, not what they want.
> 
> ...


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## Deleted member 56686 (Oct 19, 2014)

It sounds like you had kind of a bad week, Bob. I'm really sorry you had to do what you had to do. I just hope it doesn't affect your relationship with your daughter. Do you think it's possible that your son-in-law could have been taking advantage of his relationship with you?


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## Plasticweld (Oct 19, 2014)

I would not call it a bad week, just a week with obstacles.  My daughter has worked with me off and on for the last 12 years. She worked in both businesses and knows what is involved.  She also knows how tired her boy friend is at the end of the day, unfortunately just being tired and showing up does not count for much in the business world, it is results.  I was thinking about giving her part of the business so she could be a partial owner.  That would be out of the question now which is the biggest draw back to what happened this week. 


There is no way that I come out of this looking like anything but the bad guy, that's fine for now.  The truth always has a way of finding its way home it just takes some time.  I never look at things in terms of weeks or months but in years so this is just a minor bump in the road.  My daughter knows that when the chips are down I have always been there for her, I have always picked up the pieces when things go wrong.  It is understandable that she sees only a slice of what is going on given her vantage point, I can not honestly expect her to be objective right now .  This has been far harder on my wife who looks at the holidays a little differently and is sadden by how things turned out. 


I am forever the optimist and see things as better pretty much no matter what happens.  Tomorrow is an new day, I shall conquer that one also ... Thanks for you concern...Bob


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## Guy Faukes (Oct 19, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> I still work on a hand shake, for my construction business I do not even quote prices, we have done millions of dollars worth of work for customers who do not ask how much or for a contract.  The expectations are sky high. We always deliver and make sure their are no problems.  The pressure to perform is through the roof. The temptation to cut corners or be dishonest is very real and he basically fell victim to greed and short cuts.



If I had a ticket in wielding or experience in lumber I would send a resume your way. I grew up in a restaurant, and there's nothing like that mastering difficult, honest work. If it's lucrative, then that just takes the cake. 

Sounds like you were in a rough spot and had to make a tough choice. I hope things even out, especially during the holidays and wedding.


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## Plasticweld (Oct 19, 2014)

Guy one of the best ways to make money is to become a master at things that others find either difficult or un-pleasant.  I would rather you say "Bob how can I make more money where I am, how can I start my own business, help me see the demands and markets for things in my area, opportunity is all around us.  The restaurant business is a tough business to be in.  I am sure you know all about long hours,  hard work, pleasing customers and being efficient,  those traits transfer to any business.


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## Greimour (Oct 19, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> Kev. Money was never the issue, he earned what he was paid, the welding business that I am in is very lucrative.



I don't doubt that mate. What I meant was he didn't earn his place in your company. By your removing the safety net of 'working for father in law' you force him to acknowledge his mistakes and shortfalls. It could help him better himself and work out for the best.

That's all my response meant.

~~~

Regarding how you are:

I am the opposite to you in some ways. 

When I think of my 'talents', I wouldn't say I am very good at anything. I am able to do what I put my mind to...but that's never without instruction. Whether I research it myself or get taught by others, I don't take naturally to a very many things. Additionally, my mood will change my success rate. One day I might draw a replica of the Mona Lisa, the following year I might not be able to draw a stick man with any level of success higher than a 2-year-old. What I lack is usually drive and ambition. That drive you have is something I have never known.

 What I need is someone to respect and follow. (I used to wander wherever I felt like, which was fine. But I lost something along the way and I no longer have enough self-respect to continue my own path. Sad I know, but I will get over it, eventually)

When I have respected my bosses, I have put out 100% of my abilities. Where once I was terrible at the job, I would soon be giving advice and tips. My respect for the people/company I work for will stop my mood from affecting my abilities. It will force me to deliver the best that I can.

On the flip side, if I hated or had little respect for my boss, I would soon be fired- or else quit. 

I would shovel crap all day, clean sewers, disinfect bins or bath a pig if I liked/respected my boss enough. I would do it 6 days a week for [ever?]. But if I didn't, I wouldn't even grab the shovel. I would scrunch up my nose and refuse. 

My ambition or drive doesn't push me enough to do work I don't want to do. The incentive of good wages will not tempt me either.  Respect drives me forward and that's when I show my potential. 

I think I could work for you. The work would be hard and in the first 3months+ I would be highly self conscious and angry at myself for lack of ability. But some time down the line I'd still be plugging away and I wouldn't need babysitting anymore. I would eventually be someone you could depend on. (I lack knowledge and experience in your trade of business so I have no delusions that I'd suck at the job right now)

That is, in part, why I said he didn't earn his place in your company. To me, his work ethic reflected poorly on you. His standard lowered the standard of your promise. (I could go on)

Ultimately, based on who I am and how I work - that is the same as disrespecting you. That is why he didn't earn his place in your company. He was given the chance, but the result caused you even more trouble.

Might just be how my mind works due to how I am.



~Kev.


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## InstituteMan (Oct 19, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> . . . one of the best ways to make money is to become a master at things that others find either difficult or un-pleasant.



Amen. The more other people can't do your job, or don't want to do your job, the more you are going to earn if it's a job that has to be done. That is pretty much 90% of my business model right there, nicely summed up.



Plasticweld said:


> I consider myself successful based on many of the failures I have had in the past.  Even in the worst of times my ethics and morals were never part of the equation.  Tough times gives everyone more character.  We each have our own version of tough times no one is ever immune to that.  Depending on who you ask, I am either the luckiest guy alive or one dumb son of bitch for not having brains enough to know when to quit.
> 
> There is no better lesson than real life, no crueler teacher than failure.   Like anyone who traveled down the road, I have no problem sharing where the rough patches of road lay, so that they can be avoided



Seems to me like your son-in-law got precisely the failure he needed, Bob. We all fail at different things, and failure is the best way to learn. I think that honesty and integrity is something that can actually be learned, so this failure might ultimately make a difference.


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## LeeC (Oct 19, 2014)

Businesses with family members involved, commonly at one time or another have conflicts. In your case, you built it and have a pride in how well the business operates. If your potential son-in-law isn't mature enough to see that, then he should prove himself elsewhere.


Over the years I was doing consulting work, I had a couple partners I couldn't abide. One was an east coast guy from a wealthy family that had a lot of contacts in the business world. Unfortunately beyond fostering his contacts, and running up an expense account at the Harvard Club, he just sat around reading the WSJ. I never had to deal with family issues though.


Good luck,
LeeC


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## Morkonan (Oct 19, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> ...There is no better lesson than real life, no crueler teacher than failure.   Like anyone who traveled down the road, I have no problem sharing where the rough patches of road lay, so that they can be avoided



If you haven't failed, you haven't tried hard enough.

_"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.” ―     Thomas A. Edison_



I've had plenty of failures, but have also had many successes. The reason I had successes was partly because I learned from my failures. Sometimes, it's a good thing when you don't have to worry about failing, since you have excellent guidance at hand and someone to tell you "_don't do that_."  But, then again, you also miss out on some important lessons, like what to do "after" failure. Failure is easy, picking up the pieces is what is hard. When a campany can absorb and learn from a failure, you know it's a strong company.

I had to fire my brother-in-law and, eventually, my ex-wife.  (Divorce unrelated to any of that.) Thankfully, my best friend, who also worked with me at that time, ended up quitting a few months later. That was unrelated to the firings. He had simply been used to a "government job", a well-placed one, and just didn't get what "real" business was about - There's nobody around telling you what to do. There's nobody around setting the rules. There's nobody around that is going to pick that piece of paper up off the floor or pay the electric bill for you. When poop hits the fan, nobody is going to step in and _stop_ it. The person in charge of doing all that is... you. There is no other higher power to appeal to. I don't think he understood that at the time, but he figured it out later.

I empathize with your plight. I've had to fire people I didn't want to fire, but that gave me no choice in the matter due to their lack of performance or commitment. I've had to fire good people that just couldn't... do the work. I've had to fire people because they were troubled and in great emotional distress, but that I could not trust to do their critical job. And, I've had to fire people who had once been good employees, but got involved in bad things. It's tough, but its necessary. I have to think about all those employees that were depending upon the business's stability in order to pay their own light bills and to feed their kids. That takes precedence over everything and it's a responsibility that can never be passed on to "someone else" or be excused away.


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## Gumby (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm sorry that the Holiday's might be a bit awkward for you all. I think that in the end, you've done him a kindness, if he will learn from it. If not, then you've still done the right thing and that's what counts when you look in the mirror.


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## ppsage (Oct 20, 2014)

It's too bad you couldn't figure out how to make it work out better, especially if it cuts your daughter out. That must be a huge disappointment.


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## J Anfinson (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm a welder, so I know exactly what you mean about things like that being great jobs. On the other hand, it pays well not only because not everyone can do it, but because it's so monotonous once you get good at it.


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## Apple Ice (Oct 20, 2014)

I found your situation and decision to be quite humorous. Seems like a very tricky situation people in sitcoms find themselves in. Fair play to you, Plastic. Only the boss knows what he wants


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## Plasticweld (Oct 20, 2014)

J Anfinson said:


> I'm a welder, so I know exactly what you mean about things like that being great jobs. On the other hand, it pays well not only because not everyone can do it, but because it's so monotonous once you get good at it.



You hit the nail on the head with the monotony of what we do.  Each piece is tested with a sledge hammer, you have very little control over the conditions and you have to install thousands of pieces a day.  It is both physically and mentally demanding when things go wrong.  In the 28 years I have been doing this, 25 as the owner I have never yet had one person come up to me on the job and say they wish they had mine instead of theirs.  The money is great the work tough.

- - - Updated - - -



ppsage said:


> It's too bad you couldn't figure out how to make it work out better, especially if it cuts your daughter out. That must be a huge disappointment.



That aspect still haunts me. The company in a woman's name so that it could do work as a WBE and DBE is worth millions.  For her to work into it and then one day take over was something I had hoped would happen.

- - - Updated - - -



Gumby said:


> I'm sorry that the Holiday's might be a bit awkward for you all. I think that in the end, you've done him a kindness, if he will learn from it. If not, then you've still done the right thing and that's what counts when you look in the mirror.




I hope so, he is only 30 years old so maybe this will be a wake up call.  I have made many mistakes over the years, I have come close to losing everything a few times.  It always stinks when your in the middle of it, but for me it was an important part of being successful today.


So what do you get a son in law that you fired for Christmas?


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## Morkonan (Oct 21, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> ...So what do you get a son in law that you fired for Christmas?



Love, compassion, empathy, a desire to express "family" and the things that really matter in life. What more could you give him?

You made a_ business_ decision. You did not make a _family_ decision. Make sure he knows that.


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## Pidgeon84 (Oct 21, 2014)

Ya know, sometimes we have to make uncomfortable decisions. It seems as though this was the best decision you could make and you can only hope that he learns his lesson.


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## Plasticweld (Oct 21, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> Love, compassion, empathy, a desire to express "family" and the things that really matter in life. What more could you give him?
> 
> You made a_ business_ decision. You did not make a _family_ decision. Make sure he knows that.




Very well said, I have always appreciated your wisdom and insight, thanks...Bob


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