# bad review



## gill woods (Feb 15, 2014)

I have recently self published a short story on amazon and have recieved my first review. _It was not what i was expecting or hoping for, in fact it was gut wrenchingly horrible. So much so that it is putting me off continuing with my writing.  Anyone who has read my work has told me it was good, but they were people who knew me and maybe felt the could not criticise, so i have taken this review to heart. I have been told not to let it deter me. It is only one review but i am now ready to pull the book in case the next 
review is the same and i have to face facts that i am no good.

I would like to know have any of you ever been in a similar situation?

How do you deal with it?

Should i just give up?

i really wish i had known about these forums before i published my story. but i would be greatful for any advice you could give me!!

thanks xx_


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## Sam (Feb 15, 2014)

Learning to accept harsh reviews comes with time and experience. We aren't always going to get good comments. Some of the greatest writers of our time have received the most negative of criticism. It helps us grow as writers. 

I immortalised the first bad review I ever got. It sits above the workspace in my bedroom, framed for eternity, alongside the first rejection letter I ever received and the first poor mark I was given in college. 

Why would I want these horrible things adorning the space above my head when I write? Simple. Motivation. Take that person's review and make it work _for _you and not against you. If you let it destroy you, it will, but if you use it to spur you on you will be much better for it. 

Don't quit. By quitting, you admit that they were right. You never quit on someone else's terms. Always on your own.


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## InstituteMan (Feb 15, 2014)

First: trolls be trolls. DON'T FEED TROLLS. Fun though it might be to respond directly, the situation could easily spiral out of control.

Second: don't take it to heart, unless of course you should. You are perceptive to realize that friends and family may not be honest reviewers, but people typing anonymous things on the internet are not known for objectivity either. If there are some truths in the bile and you can take it without swallowing a sickening volume of the poison, then perhaps you should do so. I am very sure that one person's opinion is not reason enough to give up on this dream.

Third: what do I know? You are further in this process than me, so all of this is easy for me to say in a hypothetical kind of way.

Fourth: stick around now that you found these forums.

Fifth: good luck!

J


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## bookmasta (Feb 15, 2014)

Like Sam said, this is a part of writing. You need to be able to take such comments with the good and the bad. Personally, I relish negative comments and feedback. I have a file of them saved in my email for that sole purpose of working to prove them wrong. So don't worry, we all deal with negative comments and remarks. It weighs on your character. How will you deal with such harsh remarks? Personally, I use them as a source of inspiration to prove the nay-sayers wrong. 

So just remember, we've all been there at one point. Negative feedback will be inevitable. But that doesn't dictate how you respond. Take what you can from the advice, if there is anything, and keep writing. I wish you luck.


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## gill woods (Feb 15, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. What a wonderful way to see it. I shall definately take this on board and use this to my advantage. It is hard not to feel disheartened, especially when it is something that you have put your heart and soul into. I will take it on the chin and continue with what i love. If the next is as bad then i shall just have to try harder!!! I fear I may have went into to this with the illusion that everyone will love my work as much as i do. thank you


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## Sam (Feb 15, 2014)

Don't worry. A lot of writers go into it feeling the same way. It's not unusual.


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## Blade (Feb 15, 2014)

"Do you have enemies? Good, That means you are doing something." Winston Churchill.


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## sunaynaprasad (Feb 15, 2014)

I've received reviews I couldn't stand (only a few, though). But after a while, I move on. Not everyone's taste is the same. Maybe one day you will receive a positive review. J.K. Rowling's _The Casual Vacancy _received a lot of bad reviews. But she didn't give up. _The Cuckoo's Calling _got better reviews, even though she used a pen name.


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## T.S.Bowman (Feb 16, 2014)

I let the words of a teacher that I had a lot of respect for turn me off writing for over 20 years. It was the biggest mistake I have ever made.

One thing you will have to develop as a writer is a thick skin. That's not to say a thick skull would be a good thing because even the worst reviews can, occasionally, be helpful. It wouldn't be wise to completely ignore them. Look for something in the review that you can use to make your writing better. If you can't find one single thing, THEN disregard it.

I have gotten good and not so good (no really bad ones thank goodness) reviews of the novel I am currently working on. But in all of them, I have found things that I can fix and switch around to make my work better. Over the last couple of weeks, I have had a person who's native language isn't English reviewing the first 10 or so chapters of my novel. She is having a heck of a time getting the concept of my MC talking to himself (an inner dialogue) without my having used the words "he said" when speaking (thinking) back to the other "voice". Her reviews have let me know that I need to work on making it a little more clear as to who/what my MC is "speaking" to. That will help me be more able to sell it in foreign countries if it comes to that point.

The only way to become a better writer is to write.


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## escorial (Feb 16, 2014)

"There is only one thing in life worse *than* being *talked* about, and that is *not* being*talked* about." - Oscar Wilde quotes


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## Bishop (Feb 16, 2014)

I like what Bpwman said--check it for anything that you think is useful advice in some way. If there's nothing there and the review just amounts to him saying "I didn't like" in harsh words, then it's nothing. We as writers should know the power of words, both for their artistic ability as well as the billions of people that misuse them. 

Think of it this way. Your writing is like iron in a forge. You have to burn it, beat it, grind it against rocks... but eventually you get a beautiful sword. One thing that always makes me feel better is to eviscerate them in a character you create. I've made bumbling and insanely flawed characters as a timeless tribute to the jerk-bags who inspired them. Makes me feel better.


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## J Anfinson (Feb 16, 2014)

Been there, only on Barnes and Noble instead. There's nothing quite like having someone (who you hoped would love your writing) bash it into the ground, stomp on it, and grind it in further with the heel of their boot.

It hurt, sure, but I learned a valuable lesson: I wasn't ready to be publishing anything. After joining this forum I could see that, and unpublished every short story I had whether the reviews were good or not. I'm motivated now in knowing that when I'm ready to publish again, I'll be good this time.

My advice is to enter the LM every month and study and apply not only the feedback for your entry, but for every entry. There's a lot you can learn by reading critiques.


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## T.S.Bowman (Feb 16, 2014)

Bishop said:


> I like what Bpwman said...



Wow. I don't see those words in _that combination _very often. Thanks. LOL



> One thing that always makes me feel better is to eviscerate them in a character you create. I've made bumbling and insanely flawed characters as a timeless tribute to the jerk-bags who inspired them. Makes me feel better.



Hey....that has never occurred to me. I think I might use that idea.


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## Justin Rocket (Feb 16, 2014)

Frame it in a nice frame and hang it somewhere dominantly visible from your writing desk.  Take a part of the comment and make it part of your motto.  Take that which has hurt you and transform it into something constructive.


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## Bishop (Feb 16, 2014)

Justin Rocket said:


> Frame it in a nice frame and hang it somewhere dominantly visible from your writing desk.  Take a part of the comment and make it part of your motto.  Take that which has hurt you and transform it into something constructive.



I actually have to disagree with this. To me, rejection is something to be taken, looked at once, then tossed in the trash. Yes, it's a badge of honor to try and fail rather than not try, but at the same time I think that highlighting the failure and rejection can give you an anchor to look at every night. You type away at some new story, see that review on the wall and your heart sinks. That writing you just did seems useless now, and you worry it's just going to lead to more rejections to frame. It may work for some people, but not me. 

Go out, get rejected. Look once, and smile. Then keep going.


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## stevesh (Feb 16, 2014)

I can't remember if I've posted this here before, but it's one of my favorite comments on this subject.

From mystery writer James Lee Burke's website:

"His novel The Lost Get-Back Boogie was rejected 111                      times over a period of nine years, and upon publication by                      Louisiana State University press was nominated for a Pulitzer                      Prize."


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## Sam (Feb 16, 2014)

Bishop said:


> I actually have to disagree with this. To me, rejection is something to be taken, looked at once, then tossed in the trash. Yes, it's a badge of honor to try and fail rather than not try, but at the same time I think that highlighting the failure and rejection can give you an anchor to look at every night. You type away at some new story, see that review on the wall and your heart sinks. That writing you just did seems useless now, and you worry it's just going to lead to more rejections to frame. It may work for some people, but not me.
> 
> Go out, get rejected. Look once, and smile. Then keep going.



By putting the bad review in sight, you condition yourself to become less bothered and more motivated by it. If you let it gnaw away it you, it will, but if you give it a positive reason for existing above your head, it can be the most motivating experience imaginable.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 16, 2014)

gill woods said:


> I have recently self published a short story on amazon and have recieved my first review. _It was not what i was expecting or hoping for, in fact it was gut wrenchingly horrible. So much so that it is putting me off continuing with my writing.  Anyone who has read my work has told me it was good, but they were people who knew me and maybe felt the could not criticise, so i have taken this review to heart. I have been told not to let it deter me. It is only one review but i am now ready to pull the book in case the next
> review is the same and i have to face facts that i am no good.
> 
> I would like to know have any of you ever been in a similar situation?
> ...



Three years ago, and not long after I started writing, I was in the same place you are now. - The only difference was, I sent my work to the best literary agent, and then set about looking for a larger property to buy with my advance cheque. - When I was rejected I was stunned - Everyone had said how good I was; surely the agent had made a mistake? - Not long afterwards, a member of this site reviewed my work elsewhere, and tore it to pieces in the nicest way such a thing could be done...

...Still, I was furious.

It was a watershed moment. I could either pack in writing, or I could strive to be as good as I'd once thought I was... I chose the latter, and the journey has been the most inspiration experience I could have imagined.

Write your backside off... - Throw work at this site for review, and listen to the well-meaning words of those that critique it. - Rejoice when you mess things up, as this is the best way to learn and become a better writer.

You're a day closer to where you want to be, but only if you don't waste it...


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## Kyle R (Feb 16, 2014)

Take any negative reviews and rejections and tell yourself you will prove them wrong!


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## The Tourist (Feb 16, 2014)

gill woods said:


> gut wrenchingly horrible...How do you deal with it?



When I was a small boy I had a touch of asthma.  I was surprised to find out that the "medicine" they gave me was the very toxins that made me sick.  Over time, I became immune.

Consider yourself now "inoculated."  Hey, your detractors did you the biggest favor imaginable.  You got a taste of defeat, you're alive, and you're here searching for answers.

I got my nose broken--twice.  This might sound funny, but after that I was never afraid to speak to women.  I mean, how mad could they get?  LOL

Keep writing.  Periodically, I'll try to find a flaw.  Over time, it won't matter.


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## Jeko (Feb 16, 2014)

> _It is only one review but i am now ready to pull the book in case the next review is the same and i have to face facts that i am no good._



You're going to stop writing because a few people tell you you're not good at it? 

You're not good at it. Neither am I, really. But you're getting better at it as long as you're still writing. 

Use reviews to guide your progress. Don't use them to assess whether any more progress should be made. Progress should _always _​be made.


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2014)

Get your work up on the forums and let people in the know have a look  

When my story is published I expect my first 10 reviews to be really bad but written by people I've upset in life.


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## thepancreas11 (Feb 16, 2014)

I wrote an entire novel once, expecting that people would read it. The few that did were very critical, and these were friends of mine, people I trusted. I thought that I had not talent, and then I realized two things: every piece has an audience, and I don't do it for the audience. A writer writes for themselves first and foremost. If you like doing it, then keep doing it. The more you write, the more mistakes you catch. The more you write, the better your inner voice becomes. The more you write, the more chances someone can help you hone your craft into something worthy of praise. Now, between now and that praise part, there will be a lot of what I like to call, not-quites. I've gotten an awful lot of them, and I've given my fair share, always with the intention of making better writers out of the people I critique.

You're mission, should you choose to accept it, is to learn from this experience. First of all, never be anything but honest when it comes to critiquing. Yes, smiling and nodding can make people happy, but it's not going to get them published. Rip into the pieces you are trying to digest. Every little nit you can think of should come out through the keys. Secondly, never ask your friends to be your critics. Total strangers are way more willing to give you a straight answer. Lastly, be okay with being imperfect. You are. Be okay with it.


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## Robdemanc (Feb 16, 2014)

After spending some time on Goodreads I have come to realize that most reviews are not to be taken seriously. I have seen 5 star reviews for the most awful stories and I've seen terrible reviews for stories I thought were good. Everyone has different tastes and so negative reviews will come no matter how well a writer/storyteller you are.

I think readers can be very harsh when they don't like a story because not only do they want to express their dislike they also want to vent their anger at having spent time reading it.


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## gill woods (Feb 16, 2014)

I would just like to thank each and everyone of you! Yesterday was hard for me, but today I have a new attitude. I now know that everyone is not going to love my writing, and thats fine with me. Im not perfect and there are many things i need to improve on, but thanks to you all out there Im not gonna take criticism to heart. Thank you all again!!


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## Sam (Feb 16, 2014)

Don't take it to heart, no, but do seek to understand why it was given in the first place. It can only help you grow as a writer.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 16, 2014)

gill woods said:


> I would just like to thank each and everyone of you! Yesterday was hard for me, but today I have a new attitude. I now know that everyone is not going to love my writing, and thats fine with me. Im not perfect and there are many things i need to improve on, but thanks to you all out there Im not gonna take criticism to heart. Thank you all again!!



I think you've just taken a huge literary step forward. I know it was a watershed moment, and I am delighted by the choice you have made. Who knows where it will lead?


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## The Tourist (Feb 16, 2014)

Sam said:


> Don't take it to heart, no, but do seek to understand why it was given in the first place. It can only help you grow as a writer.



Sam we also warn the member that most criticism comes from envy.  The critic reads the treatise (or views the freedom and talent of the writer), realizes he cannot achieve the same thing, and finds a minor flaw to slam.

The classic case of a flaming review is akin to guys won't don't personally ride but demand helmet laws.  Same thing, same impetus, same petty mind.

I respect the reviews on poetry that Pandi offers.  She finds both the good and bad in an effort to help the younger poet refine his craft--no agenda.  She can criticize my table manners and I wouldn't care.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 16, 2014)

IF you're on Twitter, consider following @litrejections . Their tweets are very helpful, even inspirational.


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## Sam (Feb 16, 2014)

> Sam we also warn the member that most criticism comes from envy.  The  critic reads the treatise (or views the freedom and talent of the  writer), realizes he cannot achieve the same thing, and finds a minor  flaw to slam.
> 
> The classic case of a flaming review is akin to guys won't don't  personally ride but demand helmet laws.  Same thing, same impetus, same  petty mind.
> 
> I respect the reviews on poetry that Pandi offers.  She finds both the good and bad in an effort to help the younger poet refine his craft--no agenda.  She can criticize my table manners and I wouldn't care.



Yes, but even envy contains certain truths.


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2014)

Sam said:


> envy contains certain truths.



I'm envious of my own brilliance!


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## TWErvin2 (Feb 16, 2014)

You're never going to please everyone. Depending on the content of the bad review, you can examine what was said and attempt to determine if there's any truth to it. But even if there is, unless there's a solid trend of independent complaints by readers reflecting the same opinion, it's best to move on. Work on that next story.

A short time back, I took comments made by reviewers on Amazon of my most recent novel. I focused on the comments that discussed characters, mainly the protagonist. While the majority were generally positive, there were some negative. And even the positive were varied as to reasons given. Each reader brings to the table a different set of experiences that will shade the way they read, perceive, and react to a story. If your story receives enough readership/reviews, you may similarly experience a variety of review responses.

If anyone's interested, here's the blog link: Relic Tech: Character Commentary


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## Mr mitchell (Feb 17, 2014)

I would never take a bad review personally, if I'm being honest but it should still egg you on to do better. When I first joined the forum, the first review was bad and for a while it did hurt and over the few years I have been here, I had a few. But I didn't let it hurt me as I made sure I wanted to do better. So sometimes I will read them and see how far I have come and in this case, quite literary.  Always thrive to improve.


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## The Tourist (Feb 17, 2014)

Sam said:


> Yes, but even envy contains certain truths.



Oh, you got that right!  Kind of like a window into both souls, the writer and the critic.

However, you cannot fault a writer--even a bad writer--for boldly taking pen to paper.  Now, I've said openly numerous times that 80% of the books on the shelves of B&M was "tree murder."  But I'm talking about the thought process here, not the skill set.

Getting anyone off his keester to do anything is problematic currently, and a writer has "created" a thing that did not exist before.  

The critic with an agenda, on the other hand, is just a reactionary.  He has to wait until people build something before he destroys it.  Think of it like guys on a flood plane stacking sandbags.

Let's suppose a "good critic" stumbles onto the beleaguered home owner.  Oh, he might say _"That south wall looks a little weak,"_ but then he rolls his sleeves up and helps out.

The "bad critic" says, _"Your entire technique sucks, let me get my truck to knock the entire thing over."_  Then he drives away and smirks.

It's called "Schadenfreude."  And I've faced it my entire life.  The biggest squeakers are the guys who get picked last in softball, and they cannot stand to see all the fun I'm having.  Too many of them become creative writing critics.


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## Elowan (Feb 17, 2014)

My answer is a question - when you fell off your bike, did you stop riding?


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 17, 2014)

InstituteMan said:


> First: trolls be trolls. DON'T FEED TROLLS.



While this may be true, I'd strongly caution anyone against assuming bad reviews are "trolling."  Sometimes your work is just bad, and the truest evaluation of it is going to be critical.  Not everything negative is trolling.

That said, if you work really is bad, that's all the more reason to improve.  Make it so that they CAN'T say anything bad about your work.  Prove them wrong.  Show them how deep your characters can be, or how will your prose can flow, or how immersive your writing can be.  Use the negative reviews for encouragement, not discouragement.


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## The Tourist (Feb 17, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Sometimes your work is just bad, and the truest evaluation of it is going to be critical.  Not everything negative is trolling.



Of course, I would also add that in our creative lives *most* of what we will do will be substandard.  And some of the best stuff breaks new ground.  If it's going to be the best is also implies that most of those watching will not be able to duplicate what success you do reach.

During the Olympics, they use a line from Whitman.  _"That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse."_  I can think of no better frame of mine when facing critics.

I look at them for what they are, and I may contribute, averse.  

I love it when detractors are unhappy.  Much like napalm, it smells like victory.  But first you have to steel yourself for lots of caterwauling, envy and outright hate.


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## Tettsuo (Feb 18, 2014)

I'm dreading the day I get a bad review.  I'm already critical enough of my own work without someone else being critical and making it public.

Ultimately though, I expect it to happen sooner or later.  And, I'll have to suck it up and shake it off.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Feb 18, 2014)

It's important to remember that, no matter how much work and thought you've put into a story, your story is not you. It's not your soul or your baby. A criticism of your story is not a criticism of you as a person. 

You read the comments, you decide if they're accurate or not. If they're accurate, well, you've learned something that you can put into practice in your future works. If they're not accurate, you may safely dismiss them from your mind. 

If a criticism _is_ directed towards you as a person ("only an idiot would write like this!"), then you've got a lame critic. These comments, also, you may dismiss from your mind.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

I think part of the reason the first bad review does cut so deep is that we _do_ feel it's our lovechild who* has been described as unattractive.

Now I've been smacked senseless for a few years, I feel comfortable with criticism, but the narcissist in me still wants to be told how clever I am.

Hope the OP posts some work, so we can help take what I am sure is good prose, and make it better still.


*in personifications, do you use who rather than that? LOL sorry...


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## Bishop (Feb 18, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> *in personifications, do you use who rather than that? LOL sorry...




Either one works, but I would prefer "who" because it adds a dramatic tone to the phrase.

Bishop


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## InstituteMan (Feb 18, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Of course, I would also add that in our creative lives *most* of what we will do will be substandard.



Amen to that. If we are not willing to create lots and lots of crap, we will never be able to produce anything decent, much less great.

In my real life (which I am avoiding by checking these boards this afternoon, thank you very much), I am actually quite good at a very specific area of the law, and I have crafted some objectively successful pieces of work in that field. Before I was able to anything at all notable, though, I first slogged away in the field  and learned the trade for well over ten years. When I am forced to go back and read my work from the first five years or so of my career, IT SUCKS. I am fortunate that I was only given unimportant and simple projects. Most writers and aspiring writers, myself included, give ourselves extraordinary ambitious and important (to us, at least) projects, so it should be no surprise when they turn out poorly so much of the time.


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## The Tourist (Feb 18, 2014)

Tettsuo said:


> I'm dreading the day I get a bad review.  I'm already critical enough of my own work without someone else being critical and making it public.
> 
> Ultimately though, I expect it to happen sooner or later.  And, I'll have to suck it up and shake it off.



Tetttsuo, I hope you taste some setback, myself.  You'll learn what all of us graybeards take for granted--criticism is more feared in the headlights than in the rearview mirror.  I can help.  Your response had two errors.  Let me explain:

Your quote was, _"I'm already critical enough."_  Too pedantic, just saying "I'm already critical" is cleaner and definitely more precise.

Your quote was, _"suck it up and shake it off."_  You cannot do both at the same time, the proper conjunction should have been "or."

Now, here's why I did that.  You have been criticized in a creative writing forum--publically--about your writing.  You're not bleeding are you?  You're not going to stop writing because we rubbed paint, are you?  A dozen fellow members didn't chime in and flame you, did they?

See, your worst fear has come true.  It's over.  Breathe a sigh of relief and go create!


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 18, 2014)

lasm said:


> It's important to remember that, no matter how much work and thought you've put into a story, your story is not you. It's not your soul or your baby. A criticism of your story is not a criticism of you as a person.



That depends on who you are and how you write.  My novel is the only thing of any substance that I've written, and I believe I've poured my heart into it.  My characters, their interactions, and their development have all been considered at length, and were only written after serious consideration of the human condition.  My plot is the same way; I didn't throw it together, but tried my absolute hardest to make it coherent, consistent, and plausible.

Criticism of these things IS criticism of me as a person, because they came from me.  If my plot has holes, it means that, for all the effort I put into making it consistent, I fell short.  I did my best, and my best wasn't good enough.  If my characters aren't realistic, it means I failed in assessing how real people behave, despite all my efforts.  Finally, the concepts I explore and the themes that drive the story are all ones that are important to me and deeply personal to me.  If those aren't compelling, it means the things I consider important aren't actually important.

How is all that not a criticism of me as a person?


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## Newman (Feb 18, 2014)

gill woods said:


> I have recently self published a short story on amazon and have recieved my first review. _It was not what i was expecting or hoping for, in fact it was gut wrenchingly horrible. So much so that it is putting me off continuing with my writing.  Anyone who has read my work has told me it was good, but they were people who knew me and maybe felt the could not criticise, so i have taken this review to heart. I have been told not to let it deter me. It is only one review but i am now ready to pull the book in case the next
> review is the same and i have to face facts that i am no good.
> 
> I would like to know have any of you ever been in a similar situation?
> ...



Famous people will tell you they never read their reviews, for this reason. You just won't make everyone happy.

I would wait for a larger number of reviews to to gauge the balance between those who like it and those who don't.


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## SinJinQLB (Feb 18, 2014)

When I went to art school, one of the most valuable things I learned is that the most worthless type of criticism you can get from someone is "it's great!" or "I love it!". Sure, it makes you feel good, but it doesn't help you, because nothing will ever be perfect (at least not the first time around). It only helps to inflate your ego. Helpful criticism is the type that points out the flaws, points out what's wrong and what could be fixed.


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## The Tourist (Feb 18, 2014)

Newman said:


> Famous people will tell you they never read their reviews, for this reason. You just won't make everyone happy.



This doesn't work for me.  I'm a great believer in scar tissue and pain.

For example, I use a StairMaster SM5 Stepmill for two hours every day.  That's 1,500 calories, just shy of 600 floors.  Guys that are bigger, stronger and younger than I am have trouble doing 20 to 30 minutes.  The secret is resistance to pain.

I find putting up with detractors to be the same concept.  Now, I do have some of you on "ignore."  It's not the pain, it's just because some of you are lousy enemies.  More gnats to a picnic than worthy adversaries.  For example, to this day I think my mom's nagging was harder on my nerves than a armed gang-banger.

So I read the insults.  Words on a page from an ocean away.  Sauce for the goose.  Don't give the guys power, laugh at them.  I do.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 18, 2014)

SinJinQLB said:


> When I went to art school, one of the most valuable things I learned is that the most worthless type of criticism you can get from someone is "it's great!" or "I love it!". Sure, it makes you feel good, but it doesn't help you, because nothing will ever be perfect (at least not the first time around). It only helps to inflate your ego. Helpful criticism is the type that points out the flaws, points out what's wrong and what could be fixed.



Fully agree.  I can't stand positive reviews, because I already think my work is great.  After all, why would I be soliciting reviews for something I thought was bad? If reviewers aren't tearing my book apart, they're of no value to me.


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## Apple Ice (Feb 18, 2014)

Someone referred to one of my stories as "okay" once and my ego attacked me and I felt they were stupid. Then when I read it back about a year later "okay" was the nicest thing anyone could have said about it because it was absolutely dreadful.

I think we all start with a big dose of arrogance as hopeful writers because we need some degree of arrogance to decide we are good enough to write seriously and make a go of it. Therefore when the bad review does come it's perhaps taken a bit more personal and is more hurtful than it should be.

To echo what the past 40 people have said; live and learn.


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## Justin Rocket (Feb 18, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> That depends on who you are and how you write.  My novel is the only thing of any substance that I've written, and I believe I've poured my heart into it.  My characters, their interactions, and their development have all been considered at length, and were only written after serious consideration of the human condition.  My plot is the same way; I didn't throw it together, but tried my absolute hardest to make it coherent, consistent, and plausible.
> 
> Criticism of these things IS criticism of me as a person, because they came from me.  If my plot has holes, it means that, for all the effort I put into making it consistent, I fell short.  I did my best, and my best wasn't good enough.  If my characters aren't realistic, it means I failed in assessing how real people behave, despite all my efforts.  Finally, the concepts I explore and the themes that drive the story are all ones that are important to me and deeply personal to me.  If those aren't compelling, it means the things I consider important aren't actually important.
> 
> How is all that not a criticism of me as a person?



A year after you finish this novel, you will be its strongest critic.  It probably won't even take a year.
Or, worse, you won't have grown as a writer, gained new skills, developed a greater sensitivity to words, etc.
Because nobody's perfect.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Feb 18, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> That depends on who you are and how you write.  My novel is the only thing of any substance that I've written, and I believe I've poured my heart into it.  My characters, their interactions, and their development have all been considered at length, and were only written after serious consideration of the human condition.  My plot is the same way; I didn't throw it together, but tried my absolute hardest to make it coherent, consistent, and plausible.
> 
> Criticism of these things IS criticism of me as a person, because they came from me.  If my plot has holes, it means that, for all the effort I put into making it consistent, I fell short.  I did my best, and my best wasn't good enough.  If my characters aren't realistic, it means I failed in assessing how real people behave, despite all my efforts.  Finally, the concepts I explore and the themes that drive the story are all ones that are important to me and deeply personal to me.  If those aren't compelling, it means the things I consider important aren't actually important.
> 
> How is all that not a criticism of me as a person?


You put the words there, in your chosen order, as best you can, and sure, it comes from you. But what you make is a representation, made of words on paper. Even if it were perfect (and I don't believe there's any such thing as a perfect representation) it's not the same as you, a person with thoughts and ideas that serve as context and foundation for what you write. When you set your words in front of someone else who has his/her own thoughts and ideas, s/he will not imagine exactly what you did or feel it in the exact same way because of the different context in which the work is interpreted. Even you won't experience your own work in the same way that you did when you wrote it, because you'll look at it with a different perspective later.


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## Newman (Feb 19, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> This doesn't work for me.  I'm a great believer in scar tissue and pain.
> 
> For example, I use a StairMaster SM5 Stepmill for two hours every day.  That's 1,500 calories, just shy of 600 floors.  Guys that are bigger, stronger and younger than I am have trouble doing 20 to 30 minutes.  The secret is resistance to pain.
> 
> ...



But at some point, it goes beyond that...

We'll ignore fifty great reviews and focus in on the one bad one.

It really just comes down to the fact that, no matter how hard you try, you just cannot please everyone.


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## The Tourist (Feb 19, 2014)

Newman said:


> We'll ignore fifty great reviews and focus in on the one bad one.



I understand that, but why?

Here's the unvarnished truth, and I mean this sincerely speaking as a mentor with all the experiences this gray hair has provided.  I wish I could go back and reclaim the wasted time I spent wondering and ruminating about choices.  Yikes, I was still worrying about stuff at the age of 24.

For what?  Do you really care if some aging queen still living with his mother doesn't like your zombie story?  _Heck, I don't like your zombie story_.  Big deal.  Even among professional writers that have convinced a publisher to sanitize an entire forest for their supposed books, I still toss 49 out of 50 back onto discount the pile.

In large part, we are all "developing authors."  Most if not all of the stuff we write at this point our careers is going to be substandard.  

When I entered my sig-line I did so tongue-in-cheek.  Frankly, I believe this ol' planet is populated by far too many people wasting oxygen.  Why try to curry favor with people you wouldn't toss out of a beer tent?  Shouldn't you put more time into refining your craft than worrying about the ramblings of a  detractor and his misadventures in his mother's basement?

If I do one thing here before my eventual permanent ban, let me encourage you to live as boldly as you can.  This ain't no dress rehearsal, "real life" is played like sudden-death overtime.  Quit wasting it on buffoons!


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## Newman (Feb 19, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> I understand that, *but why?*
> 
> Here's the unvarnished truth, and I mean this sincerely speaking as a mentor with all the experiences this gray hair has provided.  I wish I could go back and reclaim the wasted time I spent wondering and ruminating about choices.  Yikes, I was still worrying about stuff at the age of 24.
> 
> ...



Human nature.

Sure, the solution is to not give a damn. 

But you do.

I don't know if you've done any performing, but it's the same thing as being on stage and everyone's laughing except that one stern face - that's the one you notice and talk about backstage!

P.S. 
I hope you don't get banned.


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## Jeko (Feb 19, 2014)

> _How is all that not a criticism of me as a person?_



Because you are a changing person every day of your life. Your work is text on a page that you should still be working on (unless it's been published). If people judge the work, it can only reflect you in the sense that it should still need improvement, and you will be able to continually improve it; hence, it only reflects that you're human. If it was perfect, I'd be seriously concerned about you. Otherwise, you're human.


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## Stardust (Feb 19, 2014)

Always remember that there are people who have gone their whole writing career who have never possessed the courage to self-publish any of their works. So that can be considered a big achievement in of itself. What do the trolls know? Nothing. Don't let them in.


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## The Tourist (Feb 19, 2014)

*TT On moderation*



Newman said:


> Human nature.  Sure, the solution is to not give a damn.  But you do.



I realize this.  But just because it exists in your life now doesn't mean it a permanent condition.  Did you fall out of the womb knowing how to ride a bicycle?

My dad used to make a comment I found pointless at the time.  He said, _"Good things are good because they are good."_  Think of that in real terms.  If something is good, then clearly it surpasses its contemporaries.  It exists because someone excelled.

But getting to that point means you have to galvanize yourself, your materials, your work ethic and the thickness of your hide.

I loved it.  Why?  Because I know the breed.  Oh, it took some years, but I live without fear.  How much would you pay--in real money--to live boldly, knowing that every mother's son in the room is deathly afraid?  Not just of spiders or erectile dysfunction.  But you--they're afraid of _you_.  Most of your latest treatise might be as boring as the female dialog in THG ghost written by George Lucas, but the pretender has singled you out.

I'll tell you then reason.  It's like a wizened old gunfighter watching a young ace practice.  Somewhere in all the miscues is raw, blinding speed, and sooner or later it's going to be a skill.  So the pretender tries to slap you down now.  Don't fear guys when you see this, because it's a symptom of their last gasp.



> P.S. I hope you don't get banned.



Foregone conclusion.  I'm a dead man walking.  But I'm not going to change a jot or tiddle of my discourse.  The old queen is going to have to lay down his knitting and flip the switch himself.


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## Justin Rocket (Feb 19, 2014)

Give a damn.  For god's sake, give a damn!

The world is full of far too many people who don't.

What matters is what you do with giving a damn.  You can roll over and die.  You can whine that life is too hard.  You can bitch about the big ol' meanie who said all those nasty comments about your work.  Or, You can take life as a personal challenge and push yourself to get better than the nay sayers.

Someone (I think it was Ben Franklin) once said that the next best thing to a good friend is a good enemy.  You aren't insulted when someone criticizes your work (that's actually a complement, that they feel you listen to criticism).  You're insulted when they feel your work isn't worth the energy of a response.


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## The Tourist (Feb 19, 2014)

Justin Rocket said:


> Give a damn.  For god's sake, give a damn!  The world is full of far too many people who don't.



I'm not talking about the work, I'm talking about the mindless chatter.  I'm a great believer in work ethic, innovation and refinement.  What I have absolutely no patience for is whining.

Most of the scathing criticism comes from guys who can't do anything, much less create.


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## Justin Rocket (Feb 19, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> I'm not talking about the work, I'm talking about the mindless chatter.  I'm a great believer in work ethic, innovation and refinement.  What I have absolutely no patience for is whining.
> 
> Most of the scathing criticism comes from guys who can't do anything, much less create.



I grew up as a gay kid in a fundamentalist holy-roller church and school.  I got to the point where the one empowering thing I had available to me was burying my nose into studying (this was before the Internet, I'd go to the public library and study everything I could on Saturday and on the week days that didn't have mandatory church service).  I tried various ways to escape.  I finished all State requirements for graduation (so many years of high school math, so many years of high school science, etc.) by the end of my freshman year in school (because I thought that if I could do that, they'd have to graduate me, then I could go to public school).  They decided to hold on to me anyway and, by the time I was through my junior year in high school, I had completed every class they had available to take (and this was in addition to frequently being sent out by the Principal to mow the church's yard instead of doing school work).  This was so that they could hold on to me and make sure I had to go to their holy-rolling church services (which were just shy of snake handling) in the hopes that they could save my soul.
The point I'm trying to make here is that I know what verbal abuse is about.  
In the end, though, you just have to rise above it.  I told myself that their opinions didn't matter because they were dumb Bible-banging Westboro wannabes.  I'm still Christian, but I survived their voodoo nonsense.  You just have to figure out what is important to you and stick to that.


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## popsprocket (Feb 20, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Most of the scathing criticism comes from guys who can't do anything, much less create.



I find this to be quite true. A good critic will rarely provide a scathing criticism. That doesn't mean their opinions will always be kind, but there's no point in being offended or upset by it.

Realise that you can't please everyone and move on. But also remember that you are as imperfect as the next person and don't forget to take scathing criticism under advisement, because it's often the people with the harshest words that are handing out some kind of truth.


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## The Tourist (Feb 20, 2014)

Justin Rocket said:


> The point I'm trying to make here is that I know what verbal abuse is about.  In the end, though, you just have to rise above it.



Glad you brought that up.  Many times people assume that the weaker or the oddball has to deal with bullying--and that's what a bad review is, bullying.  Not true.  Drunken townies love to get singular bikers alone in bars.  And the ignorant mindset--and most of the same insults--were attempted on me.  Granted, I had a lot more options, and the attempts only happened a few times.

But my point is this.  I don't think it matters if you're gay, a computer nerd, a woman or a biker.  My dad used to call these guys "rough tough cream puffs."  They only attack when the odds are greatly in their favor.  Not just three on one, but these guys need an entire herd.

So let's equate this with writing.  Hey, we're rookies.  Most of our stuff needs work, that's why I'm here.  But look at the bullies.  Established writers, professionals, hacks, people living with their mothers, even moderators.  All of them have the same common denominator.  They have lots more power, and they are the kinds of SOBs who delight in pulling the wings off flies.

But you're a writer now, you have a better command of the language than as a boy.  What I did with a pool cue and steel toed boot you can do with a treatise.  Confront them, call them out.  Find misspellings and dangling participles in their work.  Make sure the world knows about them, too.

You have nothing to fear from these guys, you only think you do.  Hey, Madison is the capital of Wisconsin.  We have three major Interstate highways running a mile from my house.  One Harley shop in town.  I'm not hiding.  _Do you see these guys coming to visit me?_  Of course not.  They sit behind an anonymous computer screen across the Atlantic Ocean, and while their mom vacuums, they snipe at you and me.

And people are afraid of these guys?  Yikes, why aren't you all laughing at them, publically?


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## Apple Ice (Feb 20, 2014)

So that's it then, he's finally gone. The last post of The Tourist. I'm going to miss him, he livened up the place. I feel incredibly proud he used his last like on me. I'm not sure why he's banned though, he must have upset the powers that be with his comment.


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## T.S.Bowman (Feb 20, 2014)

It would seem that someone reviewed his last post VERY negatively. 

*shrug*


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## Bishop (Feb 20, 2014)

That is kind of shocking, but at the same time, he himself recently talked about his "inevitable ban."

ON topic, I sometimes worry about my future reviews myself and their inevitable effect on me, but it's good to know I have a group to come to and help me to feel better about my work and to help me constructively work to better myself as a writer.

Bishop


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## spartan928 (Feb 20, 2014)

What people think about your work matters. But it is not their opinion that matters but that your work has an effect. It makes people think and talk, and for the most fortunate writers; act.

Good-bye Tourist. Your tales of sharpened knives and tricked out Harleys I will certainly miss. And perhaps most of all, the unique eloquence weaving its way through it all. God speed!


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 21, 2014)

I liked him, but he certainly wasn't shy about sharing his opinions.  I suppose that could've rubbed some people the wrong way (though it didn't bother me).


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## W. Dallas (Feb 21, 2014)

I feel for you.  I'm at the starting point where I think my writing is good, but can't be sure.  I've always made great grades when a project was associated with writing, ie essays, reports, etc.  Friends and family compliment my writing, but now it is time to put my baby out there for the world to see not knowing if it will be accepted or ridiculed.  It's scary.  I think you just have to realize some will like it and some will not.  I was in a band for years.  Our CD's would get 99 great reviews and one bad one.  That bad one would bother me more than the 99 great ones would encourage me.  I think most of us artistic types are like that.


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