# Write Live



## luckyme (Apr 27, 2013)

"Is this a lounge for a coming togetherness," asked the little mouse. "... does that not invite for discussion? For talk, musing or contemplating live, the life of humans and their way of life?" When Martin Luther King said, "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see," did he not try to explain the idea he had on life? Did he not try to bring within the grasp of those surrounding him The Idea of Plato? Did Plato not suggest in his Allegory of the Cave that what mankind sees as reality is in truth a collection of shadows cast on the walls of the cave in which we are imprisoned? And are all humans not imprisoned in the cave of their minds? Do not their own ideas, their philosophies hold them prisoner? And does enlightenment only come when an individual grasps the idea that there is a truth beyond their sense? That truth does not always make sense? Would truth always make sense and humans always have the sense to see those truths ... The little mouse shakes her head and whispers, "Wouldn't that be an ideal world?"


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## JosephB (Apr 27, 2013)




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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

"Isn't it a shame how writers can be at a loss for words?" The little mouse asks the one who answered her call. "And wouldn't it be wonderful when all writers would just write their live?" She sits and waits for words to appear on her screen from the other side, from where the writers who do not know it yet wait for their minds to come up with words to be hammered onto their keyboard. "Not to write just a novel, or a story, but live and real." Smiling she's glad to have those others alongside of her on this adventure. "For wouldn't it be something if this livewriting thing would take on wings and free authors from the constrictive rules of how one should or should not write?" She asks and offers cups of coffee to those who come and write along. "Or tea to those who so desire." And laughing she rises to pour herself a nice Calvados to accompany the heat of the brew.


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

Because you choose not to write at any given time -- or you choose to communicate in some other fashion doesn't mean you're "at a loss for words."

P.S. -- So far the “live writers” I’ve come across aren’t content to simply do their thing and be satisfied with their own form of creative expression – and maybe see if people choose to go along -- they have to go around telling people who write stories etc. that what they’re doing is old hat – that it's somehow "constrictive," that they’re really missing out, and it’s such a shame, because live writing is the best thing since sliced bread. I think that attitude is fairly annoying.


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2013)

Hmm.... _'live-writing'...what's that? _ _I hope she's not talking about texting or something. I get annoyed at that texting as I'm sitting here at three am, no four am, sorry. and wondering what she means and wishing/knowing that it would have been so great if I wasn't at a loss for words that time when that jerk said that comment to me, and that other time...why do I only come up with the great answers only once it's too late? but nevermind...what was she saying? Oh, this could go on for hours...I really should go back to bed...

_Just playing, luckyme...


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## Ariel (Apr 28, 2013)

Platonion ideals aside I'm absolutely not interested in writing forum posts as though I'm telling a story.  I'll save that for RP, or, even better, an actual story.  Sorry, but I feel as though I need to workshop the "live writing" when I come across it as a post and, honestly, that's not what these casual boards are for.

I find the form you're using, luckyme, difficult to extract all the ideas from, particularly considering that I'm moving from quotes to action and back again with the random thought tossed in.  With no spacing to separate the three.  Forum posts are difficult enough for me to read on a six-inch screen.


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Hmm.... _'live-writing'...what's that?_



From what I've seen, "live writing" is taking on the persona of a little  creature -- I've seen lizards and goblins etc. -- and you speak through  whatever it is. The format is usually one dense and often somewhat  cryptic missive followed by a thought provoking image. Fine -- if that's  what you want to do. But the main proponents don't stop there. They go  on about how writing short stories and novels is a waste of time and a  dying art -- how most of us are toiling away in obscurity for nothing --  and then they proudly point to however many forum "thread views" they have as a measure  of their success.

The most annoying of them -- not necessarily luckyme, of course -- are  extremely smug about it for some reason. If you defend what you do -- try  to explain that it's your passion and chosen form of creative expression  because it's something you love -- they will not let up. They just keep  hammering their thing -- often to the point where it's insulting. And the little creature often "laughs" or "chuckles" or "smiles  knowingly" etc. -- right after they tell you what you're doing is  utterly passé. Not too annoying. They  also seem to forget they wouldn't even have a platform -- a writing  website -- if it wasn't for the very forms of expression they tend to  denigrate.  And if you don't like what they do for some reason and give your honest opinion -- look out.

Now I'm not really knocking the way they choose to  express themselves -- just the evangelizing. On another site, they have  their own thread -- a few people have joined in and they seem to have a lot of  fun with it. All good -- and some of it is quite clever. But live writers might not want to wade in and  start telling people that what they’re doing is somehow constrictive and that they need to "free" themselves etc. Or that what they do isn't "real" -- this coming from someone who's speaking through any imaginary mouse. It's presumptuous to tell people how they should feel about  their own art and chosen form of creative expression. It might be better  to give a nod to the A.A. model for bringing people in the door -- attraction  -- not promotion, at least not when the promotion involves telling everyone else that they're behind the eight ball.

BTW, luckyme -- I hope you're not taking this too personally. The lounge is a place for conversation -- but you put your art up on the wall and invited participation. When you do that, then I think it's reasonable to expect that you might get opinions, maybe strong ones --  and/or criticism. That's pretty much what it's all about.


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

"No offence taken, Joseph," the little mouse says and she nods while smiling. What else should she do? It pleases her to no end that her live writing sparked this discussion. "Art you say? And difficult to read. Perhaps, but only if one really wants to dive in and concentrate to read the word and try to find their meaning one might see it is opinion, prompt and answer."

a repost from another place where this discussion was had before.

The little mouse laughs as she agrees with xxxx while she disagrees at the same time. "Yes, xxxx," she says meekly and lowers her eyes. "I know what you mean, but one must--or wants to--jump through those hoops and do new and writerly uncommon things to get that need fulfilled." She laughs as she writes this post.


"To look from the outside in gives a whole new perspective. It allows for views upon one's self and ways to go about things one has never seen before." The little mouse smiles and offers xxxxx the opportunity to try it. "Don't be caught in the cage of your mind's box. Step out and see a world of possibilities." She sits and waits, "... have no fear for what's new and different, or even illegible at first. It might open up a range of new ideas and spark the mind to create stories unforeseen."


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

I was thinking you might not have downed the whole jug of live writer kool-aid. But no. Here you’re back to tell me “I’m caught in the cage of my mind's box” simply because I don’t buy into your thing. And that it has anything to do with my “fear for what’s new and different” is hilarious.

My form of expression_ is_ liberating to me – and who the heck are you to say it isn’t? More live writer smugness. And again with all the annoying laughing. You try to position what you’re doing as something freeing – and yet it’s so amazingly predictable.

I've said my piece. And I've had this conversation before. It gets old fast.

Later.


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## Gargh (Apr 28, 2013)

JosephB said:


> From what I've seen, "live writing" is taking on the persona of a little  creature -- I've seen lizards and goblins etc. -- and you speak through  whatever it is.




So _that's_ what it is... thanks for opening my mind JosephB, genuinely, I'd never heard of it and you saved my fingers a walk over to google.

luckyme - seriously - is it meant to be funny? I have to say I'm finding the whole thing quite hilarious and incredibly surreal. Is it just 'art' or is it meant to be a lifestyle choice as well and, if I find it funny for reasons that you didn't intend, does it still satisfy your purpose in creating it?


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

"I know what you mean, Joseph, but us writers have the same attitude most of the times when encountering a live writer. Does one not reads live writing is illegible and deemed not casual enough? While it might be the little mouse's casual way of unwinding through this 'stream of her consciousness' to write her life live and real, in the here and now, inviting for just that discussion. Besides does not life itself consists of narration and dialogue and do humans not assume a persona in their life each and every time one mingles in a different circle? At least the live writers I know of use the same persona each and every time on each and every forum they land on. No disguises, just the one persona by which one is always recognisable, the Goblin, the Chameleon, or this little mouse, and the many others I've heard of and came across." And yes, she smiles because she loves to do so, not to, never to annoy. "To smile is to free ones self from the negative, to lift up the spirit, to invite to laugh with her and see the fun of it instead of feel annoyed or ...," she says and nibbles on some of that delish baklava from the nice guy at the crafts fair. "So please do keep your opinions coming and I shall counter them with mine and we will have a good time discussing different forms of writing or whatever idea we shall discuss. For all have a right to their opinion and all should have the right to spark the discussion in a way they see fit. Or would you correct me on my way of speaking when stood next to me in the pub enjoying a cider, or a beer?"


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

"Funny, or have fun, isn't that why we are here in this casual Lounge?" The little mouse asks Gargh. "Nope, not a lifestyle or even 'art', just live written from life and a way to find readers and writers who are willing and able to join in on friendly discussion of all sorts of ideas. But glad you like it and find it funny. That in and of itself makes it worth while, no matter what you think my purpose of live writing might be." She smiles as she sees in the other window how she's now third, oh no second again, oops third now, on the Most Popular Authors list. "I must be doing something right, even with this live writing on the side."





View attachment 4514


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## Lewdog (Apr 28, 2013)

Everyone has their own cup of tea so to speak.  There our several styles and genres I don't truly care for that our posted on this site from time to time, and often if I can tell from the title what it is, I simply just don't click on them.  There are though times the title isn't descriptive enough, so I click on it, then after a few quick words I find I'm not interested.  I don't waste my time and energy to write a long drawn out post about how I don't like the subject matter, or how because I don't like the topic the author of the thread is annoying or wasting their time.  What's the point other than to be rude and asinine?  Maybe that's a style of writing?  To be rude and asinine?  Okay, that's a style of writing I think I don't like.

This is a writer's forum, 'Live writing' is a style of writing, if you have read it before and you don't care for it, move on?  If this is how a "Star Critter" acts, I never want to be one.


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

Gargh said:


> So _that's_ what it is... thanks for opening my mind JosephB, genuinely, I'd never heard of it and you saved my fingers a walk over to google.
> 
> luckyme - seriously - is it meant to be funny? I have to say I'm finding the whole thing quite hilarious and incredibly surreal. Is it just 'art' or is it meant to be a lifestyle choice as well and, if I find it funny for reasons that you didn't intend, does it still satisfy your purpose in creating it?



If you googled it, you'd come up empty. There aren't enough people doing it -- or at least using the term "live writer." And the main evangelist comes off like this kind of forum posting is the wave of the future. He used to post here -- but he wasn't content to stay in his own thread. He had the habit of posting off topic -- the same thing in every discussion -- any issue or problem related to writing or publishing could be solved if people would just stop writing short stories and novels and do what he does. Understandable, folks got tired of it.


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## Gargh (Apr 28, 2013)

^^ I can understand how that would be frustrating... it has completely given me the giggles though... proper, edge of sanity giggles.


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

And of course, I already I said I didn’t have a problem with the form -- only the attitude that the rest of us are somehow “caged” by what we do. That goes beyond just posting your work for opinions or critiques. (And this isn't even the place to do it.) What if I posted something in the poetry forum telling everyone that what they were doing wasn’t "real" and that it was somehow "constrictive?"  I'm sure it wouldn't be appreciated. That’s my criticism -- and since this is a writing site, then people should be able to accept that for what it is.


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## Lewdog (Apr 28, 2013)

JosephB said:


> And of course, I already I said I didn’t have a problem with the form -- only the attitude that the rest of us are somehow “caged” by what we do. That goes beyond just posting your work for opinions or critiques. (And this isn't even the place to do it.) What if I posted something in the poetry forum telling everyone that what they were doing wasn’t "real" and that it was somehow "constrictive?"  I'm sure it wouldn't be appreciated. That’s my criticism -- and since this is writing site, then people should be able to accept that for what it is.



She didn't say anything in her first post telling you how to write, you attacked her from the start and she simply defended her style she likes to write in and opened up a thread for those that might want to join in.  She hasn't been posting all over the forum in this type of style you think is so annoying, yet you've already found her guilty of it.  Why do you have to always be derailing people's threads and putting other people down?  Maybe you have some self-esteem issues you should have looked at, seriously.

For any mod that sees this, please delete all this garbage and not close the thread.


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

"What you are basically saying is that all live writers are the same, while if you would read the individuals and see them as such the differences are quite distinct," the little mouse says after swallowing her first bite of that delish blt. "It would be the same as when one would state Shakespeare is the same as Bukowski and equally incomprehensible. Or stating all fiction is the same. Foolish isn't it? Not to make the distinction between different styles within one and the same." She shakes her head. "Too bad that one, or maybe several encounters with one live writer colours your perception up to a point that one cannot see past their prejudice. Luckily there are those who can and who do allow each their own," the little mouse smiles and welcomes each writer/reader and Lewdog on this thread, which is like always open to all and by all means do join in on the discussion. "One can always just stay away if one does not like the subject matter or the way it is delivered, but by all means do not force one another onto a path one choses for ones self."


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> She didn't say anything in her first post telling  you how to write, you attacked her from the start and she simply  defended her style she likes to write in and opened up a thread for  those that might want to join in.  She hasn't been posting all over the  forum in this type of style you think is so annoying, yet you've already  found her guilty of it.  Why do you have to always be derailing  people's threads and putting other people down?  Maybe you have some  self-esteem issues you should have looked at, seriously.
> 
> For any mod that sees this, please delete all this garbage and not close the thread.



The picture I posted was a literal trap of sorts -- because I knew exactly what she'd say:



> "For wouldn't it be something if this livewriting thing would take on  wings and free authors from the constrictive rules of how one should or  should not write?"



I disagree with that take on it and said so. I don't feel in the least constricted by what I do -- the opposite really. A difference of opinion is not an "attack." If you where familiar with this particular handful of live writers you'd know that. They aren't content to just do their thing -- they have to knock what everyone else is doing. I guess you missed that part. Oh well.


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

luckyme said:


> "What you are basically saying is that all live writers are the same, while if you would read the individuals and see them as such the differences are quite distinct," the little mouse says after swallowing her first bite of that delish blt.



Except I didn't say all the _posts_ where the same. I said the attitude about the work and what you say about other forms of writing is the same. It shouldn't be that hard to miss.


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

> The picture I posted was a literal trap of sorts -- because I knew exactly what she'd say:
> 
> 
> "For wouldn't it be something if this livewriting thing would take on wings and free authors from the constrictive rules of how one should or should not write?"
> ...



"Ah, but I am very content with doing my thing and having you do yours," the little mouse smiles as she enjoys the olives from that same vendor. "But for a mouse the rules of how 'proper' fiction should be written can sometimes be constrictive and she is happy to free the author from time to time to write live and hopes others might join her on this flight to freedom in the little spare time an author has."


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

Fine -- put in terms of how you feel about. Not in terms of how I'm supposed to feel. See you, luckyme. 

(And if by chance you are the same luckyme who live writes elsewhere -- how's the book with that awesome cover selling?)


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## Lewdog (Apr 28, 2013)

JosephB said:


> The picture I posted was a literal trap of sorts -- because I knew exactly what she'd say:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with that take on it and said so. I don't feel in the least constricted by what I do -- the opposite really. A difference of opinion is not an "attack." If you where familiar with this particular handful of live writers you'd know that. They aren't content to just do their thing -- they have to knock what everyone else is doing. I guess you missed that part. Oh well.



I do know who they are, remember I was a member of that site until you helped get me banned.  You can spin it how you want, but a picture of a mouse trap with cheese to a poster who talks like a mouse and has a picture of one in her avatar, is an attack.  Once again, the title was pretty clear, so if you don't like this style why did you post in here?  The point she is trying to make, is instead of being so negative at the style she has, either open your mind to it, or move on so to speak.  Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't mean you automatically have the right to try and discourage others.

*"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose beings."  -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes*


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

"Thank you very much, it is doing great! Are you one of the many who bought it already?" The little mouse laughs out loud this time as she sees finally the realisation settles in that she is not about telling other how to or how not to but instead hop skip dances off to another topic.

A repost from that other place on love of longevity and the perfect body.

"What is it with humans and their wish to live for as long as they can and then even longer. Even past their date of expiration?" The little mouse shakes her head. "Not me, no prolonged suffering of body and mind. None but oneself should have the right to determine when the ending is needed if one choses so." She smiles and thinks on foolish ways humans try to prolong their youth. "Shoot me up, doc. A filler here, a nip here and a tuck there, some botulism in the face, ma'am?" All for the sake of appearing younger than they are while none is fooled by it. "The inner most self always shines through. Even without words one will find the other and if not ..." The little mouse shrugs. "Remember, there is no perfection, only life."


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## moderan (Apr 28, 2013)

So it's somehow better and less constrictive to post in this slaunchwise fashion instead of replying directly to forum posts? Livewriting itself seems to me to be a form of trollery, a looking-down-one's-whiskered-nose sort of communication roughly akin to enjoying the furry-best suited for a like-minded cult.
Entertaining in a removed kinda way, maybe worth a quick grin, but certainly not more creative than the act of writing for a public, however small, at a temporal remove. Perhaps equally creative in the same way that any form of improvisation can be, but not moreso.
What little I've seen of livewriting definitely follows the course that Joe has outlined...condescension, derision, consternation. It would appear to be the province of the narcissistic, or perhaps it is simply the mode of expression that makes it seem so. It fits the definition of literary conceit in more than one fashion.
This is not an attack but an observation. Your opinion may differ.
Whine and cheese in one thread. Perhaps we should brunch?


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

luckyme said:


> "Thank you very much, it is doing great! Are you one of the many who bought it already?"



Is it "Red Gone Bad?" If so, you gave me a copy.


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## claritystory (Apr 28, 2013)

I can appreciate the value of a forum. However, sharing ideas and exploring creative avenues is enhanced with practical structuring.  Yet, extremists who are passionate about a specific approach towards writing pave the way for change.  Getting caught up with semantics rather than exploring "live writer" may create unnecessary inhibitions into the minds of future writers. Nonetheless, I enjoyed the post and I like how responses to certain work reveal more about the reader than the writer.


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## squidtender (Apr 28, 2013)

*flaming and personal attacks will not be tolerated--if i see another, the infractions will start coming out. Also, we will not​ be discussing moderation in any form*


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2013)

It is a form, all writing is, whether personalised or not. No writing exactly replicates what goes on in the mind. We may think of words but we don't think in words. We're not born thinking in words. They are secondary and only an attempt; a translation. That's what I think.  
There...my wisdom for the day.


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## Bilston Blue (Apr 28, 2013)

There used to be some other live writer who frequented these parts when I joined a couple of years back. Used to write in the character of a goblin, I'm sure. Can't remember his username. "Ol' Fartsy" rings a bell but I think it's the wrong one. Anyway, I soon learned to skip the posts bearing his/her strange-looking picture. I find it all very strange and unnecessary, kind of like scones with butter and not jam and cream. Still, it's all quite entertaining here.


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

"Nom, scones with just butter instead of cream and jam," says the little mouse. "Butter and cheese would be even better." She smiles as once again it is proven how tastes differ from creature to creature and humans are nothing else but creatures of nature and nurture.


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## Pluralized (Apr 28, 2013)

Yes, it might be entertaining for a post or three, but then the "cutesy" factor causes incurable nausea. 

Luckily, there is sufficient bandwidth for all sorts of creepers and crawlers, so write whatcha like!

I vote that if you're going to write in this kind of style, you should at least make the creature obnoxious and rather rude.


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## Bilston Blue (Apr 28, 2013)

I've been reliably informed the other creature I was referring to was "Fleamailman", and not "Ol' Fartsy". Used to get the feeling he was talking (writing?) down to us normal folk. Maybe it was just me.


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## Lewdog (Apr 28, 2013)

Bilston Blue said:


> I've been reliably informed the other creature I was referring to was "Fleamailman", and not "Ol' Fartsy". Used to get the feeling he was talking (writing?) down to us normal folk. Maybe it was just me.



Nah, I knew him, he was a good guy.  I think it's just the style that makes it seem that way.  The thing about Live Writing is that it allows the reader more depth into the expressions the writer is trying to make, with the interjection of non-verbal communication into the posts.  If a person tells you they disagree with you in a post it doesn't have the same depth than if someone tells you they disagree with you, and at the same time tell you they also have their shoulders slumped in dissatisfaction.  It's a magnification of things.  When you read it on here it can come across as rude, yet when it happens with someone face to face, you might not consciously take notice, but it's there.


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## Pluralized (Apr 28, 2013)

I actually know some really annoying people who talk in this strange way around me in person. At least they used to, before I duct-taped their orifices closed.  

No offense luckyme, you're obviously free to write in whatever style you like. I wouldn't recommend asking people what they think of it, though... just do your thing however you want to do it. As long as you're not hurting anyone or insulting anyone, who cares?


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

> just do your thing however you want to do it. As long as you're not hurting anyone or insulting anyone, who cares?



"And there you have it," says the little mouse smiling. "No insult intended, no talking/writing down to others, but encourage as best one can, while trying to have discussions on subjects which fill the brain of the inner most self. The third person allows for indeed the gestures one would make in real life, a shrug, a smile, an offering of coffee, or whatever suits the situation. Instead most times humans refuse to see past the form into the message but lazy as all humans can be want the message in bite sized pieces one can swallow without the need to think or make any effort of peeling off layers." It would please the little mouse to no end if one, just one other writer would try it. It is how she got into it, by trying once and twice and then suddenly discovering that when a post was done the brain came up with that perfect way for the character in her novel to react to a certain situation. But then again the creative process work in mysterious ways and not the same for any two authors. She smiles and stares into the roaring flames in the log burner. "None should care about how another cares to post, but read it, or not. And reply in the same polite fashion as the original poster does, or just stay away from the thread."


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## JosephB (Apr 28, 2013)

I have no problem with live writing -- I went out of my way to say so.  Like I said, some of it's quite clever -- and I've read quite a bit of  it here and elsewhere. I only have a problem with the idea that people  who write in more conventional ways somehow need or want to be "freed." That's exactly how it was initially positioned in this thread and that's the typical sell. Maybe we can chalk it up to enthusiasm -- much like the fervor of the newly converted. I also suspect that  the OP knew in advance that live writing is somewhat polarizing and that  people would come along and offer their opinions -- good and bad. Now she's explained the purpose and benefits without bringing how other writers feel into it -- and people can decide for themselves. As I explained in an earlier post -- it wasn't my intention that any criticism of the form or the general attitudes of live writers be taken personally -- they are just my observations based on what was said in this thread and on what I've learned about it here and elsewhere.


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## Leyline (Apr 28, 2013)

JosephB said:


> I have no problem with live writing -- I went out of my way to say so.  Like I said, some of it's quite clever -- and I've read quite a bit of  it here and elsewhere. I only have a problem with the idea that people  who write in more conventional ways somehow need or want to be "freed." That's exactly how it was initially positioned in this thread and that's the typical sell. Maybe we can chalk it up to enthusiasm -- much like the fervor of the newly converted. I also suspect that  the OP knew in advance that live writing is somewhat polarizing and that  people would come along and offer their opinions -- good and bad. Now she's explained the purpose and benefits without bringing how other writers feel into it -- and people can decide for themselves. As I explained in an earlier post -- it wasn't my intention that any criticism of the form or the general attitudes of live writers be taken personally -- they are just my observations based on what was said in this thread and on what I've learned about it here and elsewhere.



I have no clue how something so formulaic and twee could be considered 'freeing.' I've yet to be impressed by any example of 'live writing' in this mold, in fact, my opinion is just the opposite. And I have no clue why any thread on any forum isn't 'live writing.'

Pardon me for not being impressed by a poor anthropomorphized mouse impersonation.


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## Gargh (Apr 28, 2013)

^^ Do you think it could help with character development though, in the same way method acting can? :devilish:


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## Leyline (Apr 28, 2013)

Gargh said:


> ^^ Do you think it could help with character development though, in the same way method acting can? :devilish:



It might. Depends on the writer. I'm responding as a reader. To be fair, I have absolutely no interest in reading character development exercises from any writer in any style.


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## Lewdog (Apr 28, 2013)

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."  - Ancient Arabic and Chinese Proverb


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## luckyme (Apr 28, 2013)

'Can it be that one just wants to discuss topics without the way her words are formulated becoming the topic of discussion?" The little mouse wonders.

A repost then on prosecution and the belief to be right.

"and not only Gypsies were made to travel onto a path they did not chose, xxxxx." The little mouse stares into the fire as she thinks of roaring furnaces, or cannisters zyklon B and human lives wasted for the twisted notions of one man. One man who compelled them all. "His words, and his alone drove nations to madness and turn on itself." She sighs as she thinks how those tracks brought those who had been made redundant to their final destination after a journey they did not believe could be true. But the believers always think they're right even when proven wrong, then again that is why it is called 'believe' because faith needs no proof. Disregards it even especially when it contradicts.


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## Lewdog (Apr 28, 2013)

*"John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it! ... Build a fire under them. When it gets hot enough, they'll go."** - Andrew Jackson, 1832, Trail of Tears


*


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## moderan (Apr 28, 2013)

*Write Undead*

The night creature stirs, sensing something amiss in his environment. A hopper, a skipper, a small skittering one, scrabbling about on all fours, whiskers twitching, comes into view.
His eyes widen and he releases the nictitating membrane, allowing the clarity of darkvision and adjusting his focus. The small one emits tiny squeaks as it encounters a small bit of fermented milk on a spring-loaded plank. It hops up onto the piece of wood gingerly, not tripping the spring.
"Clever," thinks the night person. "Or at least it thinks so."
He watches as the small creature finishes its snack, then swiftly and silently reaches out, taking the mouse between thumb and forefinger and lifting it to his face.
"See how it struggles. Observe its miniature anger, its miniscule indignation. It has dreams of a larger place in the food chain, but those are mere fancies, opium dreams. For myself, I like a little cheese on my burger."
The small creature goes down whole. It is sickly sweet, cloying, and still alive, still furious, still struggling.
"I like some fresh meat every so often," remarks the night creature, licking its lips. "Truly, in the end, all comes to the carrion-eater. But sometimes it is best to let the others think they serve higher purpose or occupy other places in the great framework of things.. Sometimes."
He belches politely and returns to his reading and writing.


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## philistine (Apr 28, 2013)

Well, I didn't think I could possibly like a genre of writing less than I do fan fiction. And yet...


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## Sam (Apr 29, 2013)

How many genres could this possibly apply to? Is someone suggesting that I, for instance, could live-write a military thriller? Or Mod live-write sci-fi? Or Joe live-write literary fiction? It seems to me that live-writing applies to a niche: perhaps YA or children's stories. I daresay using it for any other genre would invite derision and ridicule. 

That's just my opinion.


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## Lewdog (Apr 29, 2013)

Ok, color me confused but live writing is how most books are written?  It's third person right?  It only appears odd here because the poster is writing their own thoughts in third person.


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## Staff Deployment (Apr 29, 2013)

Seems unnecessarily restrictive to me. Do you have to roleplay as the same little creature the whole time? And you have to add in a little picture at the end, and use exclusively a self-referential third person? This doesn't seem very eye-opening to me; it just seems like an arbitrarily specific format.


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## luckyme (Apr 29, 2013)

"Excellent post Moderan!" The little mouse smiles broadly and is saddened at the same time. "Still the discussion about how one posts instead of the topic at hand. Why not just tolerate each other and allow for ones preference of writing in posts? Why the need to question how one posts? Wy try to correct a new found friend for speaking with a funny accent why not listen and try to hear past the strange twang and hear the message, answer the question posed and have a general fun time, or would one not be able to because one is stuck in the discussion of how one should speak/write." She hangs her head and sighs. "Lewdog is right you know, fiction is third person too, filled with narration and dialogue and yet when in posts it is ridiculed and condemned. Why can't one just come and read, and if one doesn't like what one reads leave and not try to correct, or judge. Live and let live, each their own and those who want to join, join. Like Moderan did, or not and leave if one doesn't like the form. None is forcing one to come and come back time and time again."


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## luckyme (Apr 29, 2013)

Time and time again the little mouse thinks on moments and individuals. "Divinity and sympathy rarely go hand in hand for godbotherers are often the jealous type and do not tolerate more divinity than their own and humans often chose to close their eyes and not face the truth." The little mouse cherishes her individuality and hopes all humans find their own but fears humans are more prone to the hive. They do not want to be an individual, they want to belong, to blend in, be one of many not stand out. Standing out in a crowd is to attract attention which allows for others to blame them for what is wrong, for humans rarely see the fault which lies within themselves. "Would they chose to have their eyes opened and face their imperfections created by themselves?"


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## moderan (Apr 29, 2013)

*Right, Live?*

The android blinks its photocell eyes. It recalls the tale of the "weak Force" and wonders why so often people won't even stand to reason, but must instead sit in judgement.
"I suppose," it ventures, "that there is no side except one's own."
It rises, and briefly walks like a duck.
"Quack!" it says. "That doesn't make me a duck, does it? Yet some would think so."
He pauses, ruminating, his positronic relays working rapidly.
"Is it because of the very artificiality of the premise? It is similar to mine own dilemma. For I am not referred to as living. Instead I merely exist. But if there is life in self-awareness, certainly I have it. Man is a conundrum, to be sure. I think of the old cartoon, where a jeans-and-sandals clad man walks by a peace officer, bearing a sign protesting conformity.
"Why,' says the officer, " do all of you wear jeans and sandals?"
"It's our uniform," comes the reply.
The android sees a nailhead sticking up and pounds it down with its fist, making it flush with the surface.
"And so it goes," he says.


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## JosephB (Apr 29, 2013)

So the person flogging freedom of expression is now suggesting we not discuss something in a discussion forum -- and if you don’t want to play by my rules, then go away.

The idea is, you can post creative on a writing site, but no one should be allowed to comment on the merits or lack thereof of the form or offer any kind of opinion or criticism. And if you do, it’s somehow saddening and you’re some kind of killjoy -- although it seems to be OK to offer an opinion outside the specified format if it’s positive.

Why tack something up in place a designed for the purpose of discussion and then try to discourage any kind of discussion? If the form has merit, people will see it -- or not. It takes a certain amount of courage to put yourself out there -- but why spoil it by complaining when people don't automatically go along?


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## luckyme (Apr 29, 2013)

"Another great post Moderan," says the little mouse. 

a repost then 

"... for sure women and men are made for each other even if the humans seem to rather fight than love." She smiles and sips her first coffee. "Wouldn't that be a return to the old days when more than a few humans made love instead of war?" Sat on the sofa she realises she is indeed very lucky. "Yes, always chose love over war." and she watches a human sleep unconcerned of the future and what it may bring. "Yes, best not worry over what may or may not and 'Carpe Diem' for tomorrow it might be over."


Instant Karma - John lennon - YouTube


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## moderan (Apr 29, 2013)

"Flogging freedom of expression" is, I think, apt, says the little voice inside of me. But then I prefer beating them to joining them.


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## Staff Deployment (Apr 29, 2013)

----w-h-o-o-s-h--------------------> (Moderan)
(Luckyme)


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## moderan (Apr 29, 2013)

Sam said:


> How many genres could this possibly apply to? Is  someone suggesting that I, for instance, could live-write a military  thriller? Or Mod live-write sci-fi? Or Joe live-write literary fiction?  It seems to me that live-writing applies to a niche: perhaps YA or  children's stories. I daresay using it for any other genre would invite  derision and ridicule.
> 
> That's just my opinion.


I could. So could you, so could Joe. It'd be easy, like writing a first draft and editing as you go. The "abed" series is basically done that way. But without the pretentiousness. That's what invites derision and ridicule. 
It's strange...questing for immediacy by being spontaneous, but having to filter through the artificial medium of third-person, Not-I, expression. Very meta, very artsy-fartsy. But most assuredly not very difficult to do.
In the hands of a skilled writer, any medium of expression will do. But to assert that one is superior to another is the sheerest Newcastle-coaling.


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## luckyme (Apr 29, 2013)

A repost then on robotics and superiority.

"Yes, if there is only one film ever worth remembering ..." At least that's according to the little mouse and she asks if they can watch it again after the fire blazes and football is over and done with. "The ultimate and highest form of robotics in the best film ever made," she smiles knowing at least one human knows his classics and shares her love for it too. "Based on a novel by Philip K. Dick. The author who long, long ago foresaw the future and how humans will not wish to perform tasks they perceive as not suitable for humans. Much like how humans now delegate those unwanted tasks to immigrants and then complain on how their jobs are taken by said immigrants." The little mouse shuts her mouth as to not to deviate from the original topic. "Robotics, has humanity not already set its first steps on that path? What with the automated lawnmowers and even the housewife who delegates the hoovering to a fully automated system." Laughing the mouse thinks about how humans fear the unknown/the new while that what they fear might one day be the only thing which able to save them from extinction. Unless it leads them to it ...


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## shadowwalker (Apr 29, 2013)

I think I'm learning to recognize this live writing thing and basically will have to ignore posts using this form. Discussions mean clear communication. If the form clouds things (and please don't imply again that people who don't like this form are lazy) then communication suffers and discussion is not possible - at least not a fully viable discussion. It's like trying to discuss something with someone who only speaks in riddles, or rhymes, and everything said must thus be convoluted to fit the riddle or rhyme form. If one wants to write in this form for entertainment/literary endeavors, I suppose there is an audience for it; if one wants to communicate for purposes of actual discussion, this form defeats the purpose.


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## moderan (Apr 29, 2013)

*Write Nine Lives*

"Ahhh," purrs the cat. "Yes, please scratch me again, right there between the stripes. Very pleasant. So what's this now? This toothy rodent asserts that there is only one sf/robot film worth remembering, and that Phil Dick is the only sf writer that knew about robotics?
"You do realize of course that this is complete balderdash, Bast take you."
The cat pauses to lick its paw, which still has some breakfast clinging to it.
"Delicious. Look, I'm not gonna go all Tom and Jerry on you here, though I could, but those assertions are worse than preposterous. I'm just gonna say Karel Capek and Jack Williamson and top that off with Isaac Asimov and his Dr. Calvin, and leave that train of thought at the depot. You may feel free to google.
"You see, this roundabout way of communication has its definite flaws. But anything will work in the paws of a skilled communicator. My human is such, and I've acquired some sense of it. Also, I read over his shoulder. I'm way nicer than he is about this thing, and I'll just say that you do not want to engage him on the fronts of science or science fiction and attempt to assert any sort of superiority or greater knowledge. That isssssss (oh, that's nice, scratch behind my ears moar pleez) not a good idea."
The cat stretches, his stripes rippling, puts his claws out, retracts them, curls his tail. He yawns elaborately.
"To say that my human has the humanoid touch would be perhaps to put too fine a point on it...you may notice hs avatar. It isn't an accident. His username also has to do with cybernetics. You should look up von Neumann, Mead, Turing, and familiarize yourself with their work before you commence such a discussion."
The cat shows his teeth again, and winks.
"Or you can continue to look foolish. Your choice."


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## luckyme (Apr 29, 2013)

"ah, posting in third person seems to suit you well Moderan," the little mouse says. "Where did it say he was the only author who knew about robotics?" She merely stated that this particular movie is her favourite and that it's based on her favourite sci-fi author. The others are excellent writers too, but each their own and ones number one, can very well be another's number ten. Amazed the little mouse reads how her innocent posting constantly get mistaken for a non-exsistent sense of superiority.


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## moderan (Apr 29, 2013)

luckyme said:


> "ah, posting in third person seems to suit you well Moderan," the little mouse says. "Where did it say he was the only author who knew about robotics?" She merely stated that this particular movie is her favourite and that it's based on her favourite sci-fi author. The others are excellent writers too, but each their own and ones number one, can very well be another's number ten. Amazed the little mouse reads how her innocent posting constantly get mistaken for a non-existent sense of superiority.



"Well, I thank you for that", he says, falling out of character for the nonce. I am an experienced writer and any person is suitable.
While it may be "only your opinion" the use of "the best film ever made", and "The author who..." certainly paint a different picture than you're attesting to in this subsequent post.
Joseph has already pointed out the occurrences of that "sense of superiority" in previous posts. I shouldn't need to. It isn't the "innocent posting" that is divisive, it is that very superior attitude. If you do not see it in your postings after all of this, then I don't know what else I could tell you that would make the pill easier to swallow. It is pervasive.
And your post does mention "robotics and superiority". Philip K Dick was a fine writer, one of my favorites, but the scientific and extrapolative content of his work is questionable. He was interested in the social effects of transformative technology, not in the technology himself, and he was definitely no scientist. The people I mentioned were involved in the invention of the terms used in modern robotics even today. Jack Williamson's Humanoids/With Folded Hands is possibly the finest bit of extrapolation along those same lines that has ever been committed to print, and Jack started publishing when Lovecraft did.
Creative wordplay is all well and good. I could do this all day, inventing a veritable host of characters;after all, it is what I do. Well, that and argue. I do like to discuss things, and I have a ribbon that attests to the feeling of some of the population of this forum that I am a pedant who is more often right than wrong. Periodically my tongue gets unstuck from my cheek and I make actual sense. Please discount those moments.


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## Staff Deployment (Apr 29, 2013)

What's the endgame here? Does luckyme, swooning over the rationality of our arguments, suddenly cease the role-playing and begin to post without all of the arbitrary restrictions applied? Or is the intention to make luckyme use a less condescending tone?

Or are we just screwing around for fun? It's hard to tell.
I for one am not a big fan of this live-writing thing that I literally found out about yesterday, in this thread, because it seems unnecessarily restrictive and lends itself to a crushingly homogeneous tone. So... I suppose I won't use it, then.


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## Lewdog (Apr 29, 2013)

"The swamp doesn't seem so loud compared to this room," the bullfrog croaked as he jumped along the water's edge.  I large dragonfly caught his eye as he continued, "the chirps and cheeps can be deafening.  Thoughts and points seem so jumbled with so much jawing interrupting the discussing."  "Tastes," as the bullfrog's eyes circled with the path of the buzzing feast above him, "can vary so much, yet what's the point in arguing someone else's?"  Like a lightening strike, the bullfrog's tongue shot from his mouth sticking to the dragonfly and quickly retracting into his mouth.  An audible crunch followed as the bullfrog crushed the immense dragonfly with his tongue against the roof of his mouth, then gulping it whole, "Bullfrog's don't eat cheeseburgers, like humans with their filthy hands and short tongues, but who are we to judge?  Doing so would be as crazy as a bullfrog with wings.  Sure they wouldn't bump their rump when they jump, but it's just not how God made us..." the bullfrog finished with a throaty croak.  The bullfrog heard a rustle in the bushes and plopped into the water disappearing...


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## moderan (Apr 29, 2013)

Staff Deployment said:


> What's the endgame here? Does luckyme, swooning over the rationality of our arguments, suddenly cease the role-playing and begin to post without all of the arbitrary restrictions applied? Or is the intention to make luckyme use a less condescending tone?
> 
> Or are we just screwing around for fun? It's hard to tell.
> I for one am not a big fan of this live-writing thing that I literally found out about yesterday, in this thread, because it seems unnecessarily restrictive and lends itself to a crushingly homogeneous tone. So... I suppose I won't use it, then.


Partly option B, partly option C. Partly just adventurousness on my part. I dunno about anyone else. None of it's the least bit important. People are free to post how they like, within forum rules, but open discussion is just that. As long as we don't discuss moderation or get personal, it's all good.


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## luckyme (Apr 30, 2013)

> But to assert that one is superior to another is the sheerest Newcastle-coaling. ... People are free to post how they like, ... As long as we don't ... get personal, it's all good.



The little mouse smiles as she reads how Moderan manages to first get personal by stating how he perceives another's written words and then warns not to do just that. "Isn't that where the problem lies," she wonders. "How one reads the words can differ from how the same words are intended. For isn't what we perceive coloured by nurture and human nature and aren't all humans different from each other? How can one truly know another's intention from the mere written words? One fills in the missing facial expressions and gestures with what one imagines them to be and ends up drawing a false conclusion. A conclusion which says a lot about the reader." The little mouse smiles once again. No, not to show her superiority but to show she means well. Not all creatures are on forumland to be adventurous, some merely want to interact and have hopes for a world in where humans can coexist without condemning each other for the sheer reason one colours another with the wrong brush. "But that would be wishing for a perfect world," she laughs out loud for she knows perfection does not exist, only life. And she can't help but notice, "Being awarded a medal does not automatically means one is more right than wrong. Sometimes right can be 'wrong' when taste comes into play. Or opinions differ."


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## moderan (Apr 30, 2013)

That isn't personal. Personal would be saying, "well, you're a passive-aggressive sort of dimbulb and obviously must have the last word in any case". But I'm not saying that at all. I will defend your right to post however you like to my last breath, but by the same token, I am free to express my opinion within the rules of this place.
One can't help but notice that the voting public, in the case of matters of taste, has pretty firmly made its opinion of live-writing known, here in-thread.
The problem lies in your own attitudes...which started out combative and stay that way. An alliance with a well-known agitator and self-aggrandizer doesn't do anything to further your cause, and continually moving the goalposts in favor of what you perceive to be valid arguments doesn't either.
That said, I'm done. I'll not waste any more time with this silliness. There's other silliness to be encountered elsewhere if I must have it. Good luck with your livewriting and erotica fairytales. I suspect you'll need it.


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## JosephB (Apr 30, 2013)

Is there another quite so poorly veiled put-down as “it says a lot about the reader.”


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## Lewdog (Apr 30, 2013)

I believe I read a post once by Cran that mentioned there were thousands of members here, just because five or so say they don't care for the style, isn't it over-stepping things to label them the "voting public."  Yeah they have their opinions, but how many people might like this style and just lurk and don't post?  How many people have seen the negative reception it's gotten in this thread and been scared away?  How many guests view this thread and enjoy reading what Luckme has to say?  Are they not just as valuable readers as the people who don't care for the style?  I know of at least one person who said they would have posted in this thread like Luckyme, but was scared off from doing so.

On a side note, and a very personal one, I'm happy that you think, that I think, that I am more important than who I am.  Maybe I'm on my way, to beating my mental health issues, or maybe your opinion is wrong, but being a person diagnosed as bi-polar with dysthymic depressive disorder ( a long term treatment resistant depression), major depressive disorder, and past suicidal tendencies, it's one or the other.  I'm not sure how up to date you are about my disorders but:



> Dysthymia has a number of typical characteristics: low energy and drive,* low self-esteem*, and a low capacity for pleasure in everyday life. Mild degrees of dysthymia may result in people withdrawing from stress and avoiding opportunities for failure. In more severe cases of dysthymia, people may even withdraw from daily activities and isolate from society.[SUP][4][/SUP] They will usually find little pleasure in usual activities and pastimes. Diagnosis of dysthymia can be difficult because of the subtle nature of the symptoms and patients can often hide them in social situations making it challenging for others to detect symptoms. Additionally, dysthymia often occurs at the same time as other psychological disorders, which adds a level of complexity in determining the presence of dysthymia, particularly because there is often an overlap in the symptoms of disorders.[SUP][5][/SUP] There is a high incidence of comorbid illness in those with dysthmia. Suicidal behavior is also a particular problem with persons with dysthymia. It is vital to look for signs of major depression, panic disorder, generalised anxiety disorder, alcohol and substance misuse and personality disorder.[SUP][6][/SUP]



Dysthymia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> A person having a major depressive episode usually exhibits a very low mood, which pervades all aspects of life, and an inability to experience pleasure in activities that were formerly enjoyed. Depressed people may be preoccupied with, or ruminate over, thoughts and feelings of *worthlessness*, inappropriate guilt or regret, helplessness, *hopelessness*, and *self-hatred*.[SUP][6][/SUP] In severe cases, depressed people may have symptoms of psychosis.



Major depressive disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think I'm more important than I am?  Words have a lot of roles.  Some of the most important, they can heal, they can help, and they can hurt.  What you do with them is a choice, and similar to tastes, we all have our own.



> The antidote to *hubris*, to overweening pride, is irony, that capacity to discover and systematize ideas. Or, as Emerson insisted, the development of consciousness, consciousness, consciousness.


   -Ralph Ellison


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## Staff Deployment (Apr 30, 2013)

This is entirely besides the point but I was disappointed that Lewdog's brief livewriting persona was not a canine telling raunchy jokes.

Get it because it'd be a _lewd dog_ okay I'll show myself out


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## JosephB (Apr 30, 2013)

Pretty sure “voting public” is tongue and cheek – not meant to suggest any sort of large sample. Otherwise, you could just turn those questions around and ask the same kind of things. How many indeed? Pretty irrelevant.

And there may be thousands of members, but only a tiny fraction visit the site regularly, fewer still stop by the lounge. So...


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## Kevin (Apr 30, 2013)

Agitators and fifth columnists. Too bad...I was hoping to do my 'Kawl M'lone' (the greatest orator/philosopher of the latter 20th and power-forward ever), or perhaps I could be 'The Hoff'.


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## JosephB (Apr 30, 2013)

No one's stopping you. I'm probably going to come back as Ralph, the Contrarian Ocelot, so stay tuned.


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## luckyme (Apr 30, 2013)

> Good luck with your livewriting and erotica fairytales



"Another statement made which is based upon a false assumption. Clearly you've not read the book, or books," the little mouse says. "They sell great, thank you. Which is based on quality rather than luck. How do yours move?" She wonders and hopes Moderan's books do as well as her own. 

a repost then ...

Lucky grins happy to read how she is welcomed on other forums. Then she sees the one she had been searching for and says, "There you are! Finally found the courage to show yourself?" The little mouse silently stares back at her from the reflection of the dark window. She knows this mouse is a soft spoken one but nevertheless Lucky is glad she lured it out of the abyss of her inner most self. "See? It isn't that bad to be among humans. Not as long as we stand together as one. And remember, they do not all want to catch you and put you in a cage, or worse, exterminate." The little mouse involuntary shivers at the mere thought of it but then roars as it refuses to be scared off by threats that cannot really touch it. Lucky smiles, glad her little mouse is there when the need arises and she needs it to stand beside her as she encounters those who wish to bend her to their idea of how she should be and reasons with them to make them see that neither Lucky, nor the mouse are a threat, and who knows what help a little mouse can offer. 







"Bravo," The little mouse slowly claps and bows to her audience and her fellow writers. "There are those who try and succeed and there are those who try but fail to see that there is value in what could be seen as failure by some, or beauty by others. Just remember," whispers the mouse. "That not all is true what we perceive as the truth. For ones truth could be the other human's lie." And she laughs. "Is the monarch a mental patient when he refers to himself as we? Is the writer a patient when he/she explores new but not very unfamiliar ways of writing, or is it all in the mind of the reader? The one place where the writer wants the words to be alive while they might not even make sense at first glance if one does not stop to think." 


...another repost then for even a mouse must keep moving her things around for she collects and hoards her words but must polish till they shine.


“In life there are no mistakes. In the end things will work out for the best,” someone once said. The little mouse thinks about that one for a while, then she shakes her head. "Maybe it reminds you of the time when you wanted to make sense and none seemed to want to listen and the human … Best not go there, or else you will have your buttons pushed. And what if it’s not the right one? What if the wrong buttons get pushed and bad things happen?” It’s a good thing the right button is there too. She will go and push that one now.


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## luckyme (Apr 30, 2013)

...


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## Sam (Apr 30, 2013)

Squidtender has already inserted a warning into this thread. Mine will be the last. The next post that strays off-topic or enters the realm of personal comments will result in this thread being locked and the offending parties issued with infractions for their trouble. I hate doing this, but when people refuse to conduct themselves like adults I don't have a choice.


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## luckyme (Apr 30, 2013)

A repost from another place where one asked if love still existed. And thus the topic of this thread shall be love. For the little mouse is a loving creature.

Laughing out loud the little mouse reads and sings to the tune played on the guitar, "Your inner most innernesses. I will 'borrow' that, you do know that your words as well as you inner most self are never safe from those who know how to read when you've written?" And she smiles. "Love changes everything and nothing at all, for it is the human who must realise within the shallow depths of their inner most selves lies deep love ready to be awakened and spread to grow a whole new world when the old has withered and died. If they'd only dared ..."







And she challenges all who so desire to share with her their inner most thoughts and muse here upon this place that which has not been shared before. "Or just repost a musing," the little mouse says and she laughs for laughter is a medicine most powerful.


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## Lewdog (May 2, 2013)

I have to be honest, I've been burned so much in love that I've become pretty gun shy.  I'm not so sure I believe in the idea that it is better to have loved and lost, than have never loved at all.  Eventually it becomes hard to tell someone you love them, because it's either awkward to be the first one to say it, or when the words are spoken at all, things seem to change for the worse.  Why does the word love have to always change things?


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## luckyme (May 3, 2013)

"Sorry to hear that," the little mouse says and she smiles to encourage Lewdog. "Remember that one always must keep the positive things in mind when it's about matters of the heart."

A repost which might explain.



> "Perfection could exist"




"Really?" Wonders the little mouse. "And xxxx, perennial or seasonal, it doesn't matter. It's all about wanting and coexisting, being ones inner most self and being able to show that innerness without being condemned for it. Accepting the innermost innerness of the other and being happy for it to show itself so freely. Isn't that what humans have forgotten when they invented love? Don't they use love as their excuse to change and bend and alter the object of their affection to match their imagined perfection?" The little mouse laughs and sips her coffee as she looks outside and admires the seedlings doing so well, even without love. "Care is what matters, care and attention. But don't forget there's flaws in nature too. And humans are creatures of nature too."


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