# Idiom vs. cliché



## aj47 (Nov 1, 2016)

Okay, when is something an idiom and when is it a cliché?  I'm thinking of a line in my most recent poem, specifically, but it's a general question.

The line is "to sweeten the deal" and is about added sugar in processed food.  You can read the whole poem in the workshop, here.

I want to know in this instance, is it an idiom? Or a cliché? Support your claim. 

I'm looking for general rules or guidelines to use to differentiate between the two.


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## bdcharles (Nov 1, 2016)

I think the only way I could gauge it - short of totting up every known use of it and other idioms and setting some sort of average bar somewhere - would be to simply say: if you suspect it might be a cliché then it probably is. It's meme has peaked. If you're not confident about deploying it out there that would be a sort of red flag, in my mind.


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## aj47 (Nov 1, 2016)

It's that, as writers, some of the most basic advice is to avoid clichés.  That's sometimes easy.  And, sometimes, less-so.  I used to be fine with it until I read about idioms and now my mind is muddled and I'm hoping to find some clarity. What I took away was that some things I had thought were cliché were actually idioms. But either I'm a moron or the author was incoherent as to the distinction.  Now I'm left with a bunch of doubt as to what is and is not okay in terms of usage.


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## LeeC (Nov 1, 2016)

I'd argue that the difference is often in the reader's eye, an idiom to me being more what seems natural/seamless in a particular use. A cliché on the other hand stands out to me as a lack of imagination in expressing a thought. Your phrase "to sweeten the deal" seemed to me to fit nicely in the flow, and read naturally. In another's eye though, it might stand out as an overused phrase.

That is, the phrase either has real meaning in the context, or it shows a lack of imagination in expressing a thought. Your phrase was a variation on how it's normally used. The trouble is that many readers don't get into context that much, being spoon fed by video nannies, and a good part of what they've heard used in other contexts strikes them as a cliché.

Take for example the phrase "fat cats." It could conjure up an image of a fat suit laughing at beggars. In a recent conversation I tried to get across how their much admired movie "Avatar" was in fact the reality of what's unfolding in the Dakotas. I used the phrase "fat cats" to represent the oil consortium and politicians involved, and their reaction was that I was spewing clichés in making the connection. 

The point being that people will read and hear what they want to, instead of thinking critically in context. If you overthink the issue, you'll drive yourself crazy.


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## ppsage (Nov 1, 2016)

A phrase doesn't become a cliché overnight and it doesn't necessarily stay one forever. There's a kind of fashion to it that's also dependent on cohort. In a group with a high poem-appreciation-quotient, I doubt your sweeten phrase will cause a stir.


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## voltigeur (Nov 1, 2016)

An *idiom* is a phrase whose figurative meaning is different from its literal meaning. 

A *cliché* is a phrase or opinion that is overused and indicates a lack of original thought.

In your example it is neither. The words you're using are a cliché. However your using the phrase in an original way. More like a double entendre. On the surface it is a cliché but you're using it in an original way. 

I think it is a nice way to play with it.


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## Bishop (Nov 2, 2016)

voltigeur said:


> An *idiom* is a phrase whose figurative meaning is different from its literal meaning.
> 
> A *cliché* is a phrase or opinion that is overused and indicates a lack of original thought.
> 
> ...



I was going to post, but mine would have ended up like this... In your case, you're using a cliched line and using it creatively to eliminate the cliche. It's good; something many many writers struggle to do.


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## thepancreas11 (Nov 2, 2016)

I would love to make a poem out of only cliches and see how it does.


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## aj47 (Nov 2, 2016)

thepancreas11 said:


> I would love to make a poem out of only cliches and see how it does.



Billie Collins does this, almost in his poem "Adage" which I can't find a legit posting of the text of so I'm not linking it here.  It is amazing.


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