# The Importance of Critiques



## Plaidman (Aug 22, 2019)

Even as a new writer with little to no experience, I recognize the importance of getting critiques from peers on your work.  It's a tool that can help you grow as a writer and hone your skills.  This is a tool that I would like to take advantage of here.  As I have seen pointed out in threads that have tips on critiquing, you can't really expect people to critique your work without first writing critiques of other work.  That makes sense.

However, as a new writer who is only beginning the journey and has little to no experience in the art, I don't feel that I am qualified to critique other, more experienced, writers.  I would hardly call myself a peer.  So, what is the new and inexperienced writer to do?

Any thoughts?


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## seigfried007 (Aug 22, 2019)

Write whatever comes to mind. You'll figure it out as you go. Better to say *something* than nothing at all. 

Even as a new writer, you can still comment. 

1) "I enjoyed/did not enjoy this piece because... 
2) This part worked/didn't work for me because... 
3) I got confused here and here..." 

You don't have to talk about nitty gritty details like verb tenses and voice--just say *something* and let the writer know you read it. Reading other people's works--and the comments  they receive will also help you become a better writer.


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## Plaidman (Aug 22, 2019)

seigfried007 said:


> Write whatever comes to mind. You'll figure it out as you go. Better to say *something* than nothing at all.
> 
> Even as a new writer, you can still comment.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the help.  I just don't want to come off looking like a now-it-all that has no real experience.


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## Phil Istine (Aug 22, 2019)

Plaidman said:


> However, as a new writer who is only beginning the journey and has little to no experience in the art, I don't feel that I am qualified to critique other, more experienced, writers.  I would hardly call myself a peer.  So, what is the new and inexperienced writer to do?
> 
> Any thoughts?



Yes, just do it.  I've been through that too, and you might be surprised how much an inexperienced writer can catch.


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## Plaidman (Aug 22, 2019)

Well, I went and did some reading and critiquing.  Hopefully nobody hates me.


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## Phil Istine (Aug 22, 2019)

Plaidman said:


> Hopefully nobody hates me.



Around here they turn you into a character in one of their stories.


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## luckyscars (Aug 22, 2019)

I think the importance of critique really changes as you progress.

When I am critiquing a writer who is obviously very new, I try to focus critique on whether they actually can write or not. The basic nuts and bolts: SPaG, narrative flow, descriptive integrity, overwrite, that sort of thing. Unfortunately I tend to be quite harsh when it comes to expressing what I think works and doesn’t - I don’t believe in balancing negatives with positives unless it’s warranted. Can’t help it. Recognizing this, I don’t critique a whole lot of total beginner writers, because I feel like most people who are asking for critique are really asking for encouragement and validation and being honest might not be what they want.

For more advanced writers (or at least those who profess to be), though, the gloves come off. I am somebody who likes my own work to be brutally autopsied. I believe in the importance of reality checks, the penetration of delusion, and generally being torn apart, because that’s how I learned. So long as there are no ulterior motives going on (which sadly there often are - people being people) I am a believer that life is too short to be told how great you are. An advanced writer doesn’t, or shouldn’t, need to be told they are a good writer. What they need is to be told how to make their work better.  

I do think the idea of not being qualified to critique is nonsense, though. Assuming you can read and buy books, your opinion is just as valid as a college professor’s. You may lack the ability to articulate what works in a piece and give advice (everybody thinks critique should come with advice and suggestion - that’s bull too. Why do I have to help you solve problems with your writing?), but you are still perfectly capable of saying if you like something, and as long as you have money I care about what you think as a potential consumer as much as somebody who might “know more”. So don’t be afraid to have a voice. Never be afraid.


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## seigfried007 (Aug 22, 2019)

Plaidman said:


> Well, I went and did some reading and critiquing.  Hopefully nobody hates me.



You're taking time out of your busy day to read something that a person you don't even know wrote and slapped on the Interwebs--you're a gorram hero for even trying.

We _true professionals _are happy just to get looked at, buddy. Trust me, I'll thank you for reading and be ecstatic if you read anything all the way through. What I write ain't always easy to read (not a mechanics thing but a subject matter issue). I'm to the point now as a writer that I'm thrilled even for negative reviews so long as the person read it and paid some kind of attention to the story. I'm certain I'm not the only person like that here, either, so write whatever reviews you feel like writing (but do read the comments of others in the thread first and don't waste your time on people who will needlessly argue with you and abuse you--your're time's worth more than that).


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## Plaidman (Aug 22, 2019)

You have some very good points here.  These for instance:



luckyscars said:


> I try to focus critique on whether they actually can write or not.



As a new writer, while encouragement is great to receive.  The more important question may be can you do this or not.  Which I'll be honest, I'm not to sure about myself.



luckyscars said:


> Assuming you can read and buy books, your opinion is just as valid as a college professor’s.



I assume, as a writer who is making the effort to pursue critiques and working to sharpen their skills, a critique from the average book buyer would be an important critique, since that is theoretically the end goal.  People buying your books.


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 22, 2019)

Plaidman said:


> However, as a new writer who is only beginning the journey and has little to no experience in the art, I don't feel that I am qualified to critique other, more experienced, writers.  I would hardly call myself a peer.  So, what is the new and inexperienced writer to do?




Are you an avid reader?
Then you are qualified to offer feedback & critique.
After all, your target audience is readers.


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## ShauvonM (Aug 22, 2019)

My day job is in software engineering, so I deal with critiques all the time. In software we call them code reviews - another engineer has to review the code you write and you have to resolve anything they suggest before you can submit it to the codebase. It's not dissimilar to literary critiques, in that it is largely constructive and strives to be un-opinionated, and it doesn't really matter the relative experience levels of the writer or reviewer. I have gotten some of the best code reviews from people who are way more inexperienced or "junior" to me, simply because they will point out things they may not understand. In explaining them, it always helps me work out what I was actually thinking at the time, and more often than not it will point out some issues that I never thought of. I think the same can happen with literary comments. Anyone can ask for clarification of certain points, or of character choices, or of different ideas. Sometimes it's just about getting the writer to justify her decisions.

That said, I always have a hard time getting critiques of my creative work. I'm hoping hanging out here will help me get over that!


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 24, 2019)

I actually prefer regular ol' readers for Beta testing because they give pure feedback.
Writers view your work with a different eye.
Sure, a writer still offers valuable feedback, but it is different.
With a writer, often their feedback is because they would have written it differently than you.

There is a real art form to deciphering feedback from alpha & beta readers.


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## luckyscars (Aug 24, 2019)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Writers view your work with a different eye..



I agree with this. I don't prefer getting feedback from writers because I tend to find it obsesses over trivialities - basically the kind of thing we talk about as nauseum on this board. Things like active verbs or whatever. Things no _normal _person cares about if the story is good. 

I still accept it appreciatively though, not least because writers (in theory) are also readers and therefore also potential consumers and it's by no means a good idea to start getting particular over who reads your book. But I tend to find it offers a less useful viewpoint, for sure.

My wife is my beta reader. She doesn't write at all, and is by no means a hardcore bibliophile, but she _does read_, is able to articulate her opinions, and is happy to tell me when it stinks. I don't really need more critique than that. If she says its good, I'll send it out. Worked so far.


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## Phil Istine (Aug 25, 2019)

Sometimes I go over others' work twice - the first time purely for the pleasure of reading and the second to look at nuts and bolts.


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## JustRob (Aug 25, 2019)

luckyscars said:


> My wife is my beta reader. She doesn't write at all, and is by no means a hardcore bibliophile, but she _does read_, is able to articulate her opinions, and is happy to tell me when it stinks. I don't really need more critique than that. If she says its good, I'll send it out. Worked so far.



My angel wife has never been my beta reader despite being an official beta reader here in WF (BlondeAverageReader). She too is a regular reader but not a writer and can provide fair, constructive and sympathetic critique, as members have confirmed, but she says that when she reads my work all she sees is just me because she knows me far too well. In fact when I gave her a sex scene to read she burst out in hysterical laughter, which may suggest that I am inclined to write fantasies I suppose. Her ability as a critique writer isn't obvious as she only gives it in private and refrains from doing so in the open forums, but as she doesn't offer any work of her own for critique here either that is reasonable. After some long beta reading correspondence with her one member privately but fondly dubbed her "The Red Pencil", but like most angels she is a seldom seen source of assistance. 

Everyone can tell a writer how they personally react to what has been written and the critique of a pure reader is unlikely to be mixed up with suggestions about how the reader would themselves fix any problems as a writer. There are several aspects to critique, so first there are the reader's reactions, then the potential problems that these imply and then the potential ways of fixing those problems. Even just providing the first of these, which anyone can do, enables the writer to move on to the other aspects in their own way or by seeking advice from more experienced writers if they so wish.

The really important aspect of writing critiques is that when you spot something that you see as problematic in another writer's work you should also think whether you do it as well. We learn from the mistakes of others as much as our own. By reading solely successful published works it isn't so easy to understand what doesn't work well.


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 25, 2019)

luckyscars said:


> I agree with this. I don't prefer getting feedback from writers because I tend to find it obsesses over trivialities - basically the kind of thing we talk about as nauseum on this board. Things like active verbs or whatever. Things no _normal _person cares about if the story is good.



Yup. When I am beta testing a book, I am looking for broad strokes, but often writers get caught up in proofing the story, which I don't need because after Beta testing it'll be edited several times again.
In fact, I find most of the final proofing errors when I go through a printed proof copy. Dunno why, but I miss a lotta stuff on the screen, but in printed form it stands out.





PS: Scars, you should see a review for your release earlier this month. Congrats on that. Should show up in a few days.
Oh, also, I tweeted it out to a few thousand people as well. 
Njoy.


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## luckyscars (Aug 25, 2019)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Yup. When I am beta testing a book, I am looking for broad strokes, but often writers get caught up in proofing the story, which I don't need because after Beta testing it'll be edited several times again.
> In fact, I find most of the final proofing errors when I go through a printed proof copy. Dunno why, but I miss a lotta stuff on the screen, but in printed form it stands out.
> 
> 
> ...



Ralph you’re the bomb. Thanks for the support you give to other writers. Aspirational stuff!


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## Ma'am (Aug 25, 2019)

When I was a newer writer, giving and getting critiques was the one thing that improved my writing the most, by far.

I used to participate heavily with critiques/beta reads but after a zillion times around, you catch on to the basic few dozen newbie mistakes and then you don't need as much help any more. Now I mainly just put my work through one trusted person before submitting or self-publishing it.

After that point, giving critiques/beta reads is really just you helping out, which is nice, but unfortunately, the whole attitude of it changed somewhere along the line. 

The old school way was that critiquing/beta reading was recognized as the favor it is, and treated accordingly. The recipient was expected to thank you, then go do whatever they wanted with your suggestions, the end. (Well, of course they could ask for clarification if they didn't understand something you said, but that's about it).

The etiquette seems to have changed to the recipients arguing, or expecting that the critique/beta read is actually only the beginning of a long working relationship of discussing their work with you. (Often without even getting the "thank you"). I've heard the same from many other longer term writers. 

So when people complain that they are having a hard time getting critiques or beta reads now, I am not surprised.


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## luckyscars (Aug 25, 2019)

I for one am absolutely thrilled to have just about anybody read, much less critique, my work. It feels like a tremendous honor. Doesn’t matter if it’s Stephen King, Albus Dumbledore, Tweedle Dum or Phil who scrapes bird shit off the sidewalk for a living. The mere privilege of having an audience, especially an opinionated audience, is a gift.


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## PiP (Aug 25, 2019)

> Ma'am said:
> 
> 
> > The old school way was that critiquing/beta reading was recognized as the favor it is, and treated accordingly. The recipient was expected to thank you, then go do whatever they wanted with your suggestions, the end. (Well, of course they could ask for clarification if they didn't understand something you said, but that's about it).
> ...


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## Phil Istine (Aug 25, 2019)

luckyscars said:


> or Phil who scrapes bird shit off the sidewalk for a living. The mere privilege of having an audience, especially an opinionated audience, is a gift.



I wouldn't stoop so low - I scrape it from windows 
Yes, a critique honestly given is a gift.  The town where I live finally has a proper, real-life writing group beginning to evolve where pieces of work are submitted in advance and people critique for each other.  It's in its fledgling phase and I feel like I'm doing battle to prevent it becoming another coffee morning natter - like the other writing group has been.  People in the town where I live now have a choice: if they want polite nods about their work and a natter about the issues within, they can, and if they want a proper critique group, they can have that too.  I see myself as the pesticide man who prevents cross contamination.


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## Aquilo (Aug 25, 2019)

I only have one writer on my beta team, and she's for final proofing and continuity, as she's amazing at it. But it says it all, really. 

My husband beta reads for me, which sounds a little odd as he's straight and my writing is M/M crime. But he's spot-on with his crime and history knowledge and reads with crime: plot, tension, pacing, in mind. When it comes to the sex scenes...? He just looks afraid, very afraid, mostly because of the BDSM and C&B torture, I think. He hasn't argued with me much since he read my work anywhoo....


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## seigfried007 (Aug 25, 2019)

Aquilo said:


> I only have one writer on my beta team, and she's for final proofing and continuity, as she's amazing at it. But it says it all, really.
> 
> My husband beta reads for me, which sounds a little odd as he's straight and my writing is M/M crime. But he's spot-on with his crime and history knowledge and reads with crime: plot, tension, pacing, in mind. When it comes to the sex scenes...? He just looks afraid, very afraid, mostly because of the BDSM and C&B torture, I think. He hasn't argued with me much since he read my work anywhoo....


I so jelly. My hubs saw "a bad word" (something pertaining to a M/M scene) over my shoulder ten years ago and hasn't beta read anything since, I think. Last beta I had was in 2013. Kinda pent up for action on that front, but I need to finish it before I ask for betas here... but by then, will I even need one? It's generally too late (or just super difficult and time-consuming) to change the really big things by then.


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## Aquilo (Aug 25, 2019)

seigfried007 said:


> I so jelly. My hubs saw "a bad word" (something pertaining to a M/M scene) over my shoulder ten years ago and hasn't beta read anything since, I think. Last beta I had was in 2013. Kinda pent up for action on that front, but I need to finish it before I ask for betas here... but by then, will I even need one? It's generally too late (or just super difficult and time-consuming) to change the really big things by then.



Most betas prefer a full story to read, to be honest, so I'd defiitely go for a round with betas when you're done!


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## seigfried007 (Aug 25, 2019)

Aquilo said:


> Most betas prefer a full story to read, to be honest, so I'd defiitely go for a round with betas when you're done!


Yup, and for good reasons. It's hard to give advice on an ending that hasn't been written yet, but it's also nice to give a writer input they can use in the middle, too. In the middle of a work, said reader has some power to alter the flow of the eventual story, whereas a writer is less likely to make sweeping adjustments once finished (and likely partial to what they've written and really just wanting to be done with the dang thing). Plus, nobody really wants to read a half-finished book because it's a cliffhanger "ending". I am entirely sympathetic to betas of all types and stripes.


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 25, 2019)

My wife refused to read the entire Calizona series.
But then again, it was centered on a pair of redneck stoners who keep hookers in their bunker. Too coarse for a lady.

But she proofs my other works.


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## clark (Aug 25, 2019)

Plaidman -- I figger yer gittin' the picture by now. It's ok to write "I dunno, I just can't see this guy being so _brave _here. He wasn't before" OR "in S1 the room was very dark, so I don't see how it's "bright" in S4" OR "I know it's free verse but I don't feel ANY rhythm in this line" OR "I've read S3 five times and it just makes no fucking sense to me. Maybe the tense shift is a problem--I'm just not sure." OR "isn't *eschew *kind of a weird word for this pretty ordinary guy to use?"

You're concerned about your writing or you wouldn't be here. So am I. And I value your "impressions" or "vague feelings" every bit as much as the Ph.D from Harvard who knew Ferlinghetti personally and has published two books on the SF poets. SHE will give me a different perspective written with different motives, but not necessarily more valuable to me as a poet. And we ARE 'peers', my young friend: we travel the same road,though we may see the signposts differently and walk at a different pace. 

As numerous others have said, offer something. Do not praise without saying why you choose to praise. Do not say a piece sucks, without saying why it sucks We function in a one-dimensional world here. Tone of voice, facial expressions, gestures, body language. .all unavailable to us.  Your critique on the screen is all the writer has from you. Make your words honest and clear. Refer to the text of her piece so she knows where to go. Be yourself.

I disagree with a harsh and direct tone. Direct for sure. Can't think of any reason for harshness. You're a writer--you can offer an *un*sugared pill without coating it with vinegar. Why make the other writer feel like an idiot, or perhaps elicit an angry, defensive response? Simple decent manners never go out of style. Often a simple question: _w​ould you consider. . .? OR wouldn't it be more logical if. . .?" _​will get your point across just fine. And make the OP feel like you're members of the same team.


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## tepelus (Aug 25, 2019)

My mom just finished reading my novel and gave me mostly verbal feedback on it. She wrote some things down from the beginning of the novel she felt needed fixing, mostly words I used that I should change because they don't work in context with the sentence. She's in her 70's and has a hard time writing. Overall she really liked the book, and that's saying a lot since she's not a big fan of vampire novels. When I told her it is 122k words long, she was surprised because it didn't seem so long. The writing was smooth and easy to read and the story so interesting it kept her from wanting to put the book down. Just what a writer wants to hear.

My other beta, a guy I know from way back and am still friends with on Facebook, his second language is English but he speaks and writes it impeccably. He too thought the writing was good, enjoyed the story very much, can't wait for it to come out as a book to purchase and recommend it to several of his friends. He added comments directly to the manuscript, some grammar issues or story issues that he thought might need a second look.

Both are readers and not writers, but I have a third beta who is a writer and she's in the process of critiquing the story. I have no doubt that she'll find more to comment on than the other two. I will thank her and use what I need of her critique and that of my mom and friend and adjust the story accordingly. When I get several critiques in a critique forum, I tend to not thank people individually but in a single post to all. Thank you's go a long way to getting people to want to work with you in the future. Build bridges, not burn them.


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## JustRob (Aug 26, 2019)

Ma'am said:


> The etiquette seems to have changed to the recipients arguing, or expecting that the critique/beta read is actually only the beginning of a long working relationship of discussing their work with you. (Often without even getting the "thank you"). I've heard the same from many other longer term writers.
> 
> So when people complain that they are having a hard time getting critiques or beta reads now, I am not surprised.



It would be very easy just to agree with this, but I think that a critic / beta reader benefits from receiving feedback about the impact that their comments have on the writer just as much as the writer benefits from those comments. I agree that the writer should always be thankful for the reader taking the time to comment, but any general embargo on further interaction is likely to diminish the benefits of that contribution. 

My angel wife BlondeAverageReader has very recently had the difficult task of telling a member why she stopped reading their work after reading several chapters and she welcomes writers' honest reactions to her comments simply to know how well she is tackling that task. She is only a beta reader, not a writer, but the specific skill that she is developing here also needs honest feedback. Polite but potentially meaningless thanks serve her no purpose apart from encouraging her to continue doing exactly what she does already without improvement. In the case of that recent piece of work the writer did admit that they'd had similar thoughts about it, so my angel felt that her comments had hit the right mark, which was reassuring to her. She actually once assisted a member here who bargained with her, offering to take out of his work something that she disliked if he could leave something else in. In effect between them they were evaluating the relative importance of her criticisms. Why not interact like that once the piece had been read? They both already had the story in their minds, so it made sense to make the most of that fact.

Hence she is willing to continue to assist a writer with a particular work once she is acquainted with it, but if one wants her to read other works as well as an extension of the relationship then she has no qualms about politely refusing if she doesn't want to, especially if a new work differs significantly, such as in genre. 

She joined WF specifically to beta read and so far that has been the most rewarding and enjoyable aspect of her membership while she is quite critical of other aspects of the site, so suggestions that writers may have the wrong attitude to such readers won't ring true to her here even if they do apply elsewhere. In fact it is I who has mentioned her experiences here because she would rather spend her time discussing the impact of a writer's work with them than discussing issues such as this one. Also she is the hard-working one around the house while I am a relative drone who has the time to write things like this, so I understand. Am I entitled to give her my feedback on that critique though?


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 26, 2019)

When offering feedback, I always try to point out the good things they did right...
Then I ease into the bad things.

I also tend to tailor my feedback to the writer's level.
Some writers get high-level feedback, others get very basic guidance.
After all, what is the point of mentioning deep philosophical issues when they are still at the mechanical level.

I also avoid giving a lot of proofing feedback. My advice typically speaks to the flow, or character development, or brush strokes.


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## Ralph Rotten (Aug 26, 2019)

That being said, one thing that writers seeking feedback could do to improve the process is to proof their content. I really hate trying to offer feedback on something that was dashed off in a hurry, without even editing. 

Please, no hot-messes. It's rude to the critique'rs, and really it plays a negative role in the whole process. Errors will make a reviewer view your work in a harsh light. Clean it up before you post it, please.


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## JustRob (Aug 27, 2019)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Clean it up before you post it, please.



I would go further and say that you should do that with _all_ your posts, not just ones for critique. Make writing well a habit so that you barely have to think about it to get it right. Those of us who revel in the language instinctively read every post critically but are too polite to comment when critique is not expected. Someone who genuinely enjoys writing well should feel embarrassed about putting their name to anything written badly regardless of how trivial it is. If you check through my posts you may notice how often they are marked as having been edited almost immediately after I have posted them because I have seen on reading them back a deficiency such as a missing apostrophe, bad use of commas or a clumsy phrase. Get into this habit and when you sit down to write an actual work you will be able to focus your mind on the story and let the writing just happen _as usual_. Critique that describes how the reader feels about the actual story, characters, settings etc is far more palatable than hard editorial critique of the technical side of the writing and anyone can offer the former as personal opinion while the latter is often indisputable and demoralising, but the remedy is in the writer's hands even before the reader sees the piece. 

[SIZE=+1]Write right; right?[/SIZE]
(Er, is that correct use of a semicolon? Now I'm seriously worried ... as I ought to be.)


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## bdcharles (Aug 27, 2019)

Plaidman said:


> Even as a new writer with little to no experience, I recognize the importance of getting critiques from peers on your work.  It's a tool that can help you grow as a writer and hone your skills.  This is a tool that I would like to take advantage of here.  As I have seen pointed out in threads that have tips on critiquing, you can't really expect people to critique your work without first writing critiques of other work.  That makes sense.
> 
> However, as a new writer who is only beginning the journey and has little to no experience in the art, I don't feel that I am qualified to critique other, more experienced, writers.  I would hardly call myself a peer.  So, what is the new and inexperienced writer to do?
> 
> Any thoughts?



Well, people liked your LM entry so I think you have some skill in the field. But really, a lot of critique is reading with light touch feedback. Rather than have all the answers, technical terms, and fixes ready, you can say "paragraph XYZ didn't work; I felt bored/confused/my mind wandered" or what-have-you. 

The temptation though may be that to provide credible critique you need to go super hard on people. It might be tempting, writing critique, to rip apart every little thing to showcase how you're a dyed-in-the-wool author that probably drank with Hemingway or something, but TBH I rarely see this go well, because it tends to a. get people's backs up and b. smother their voice and whatever nascent skill they may be nurturing, resulting in generic, timid prose. I try and just be nice with my critique. That doesn't mean I don't find fault; I do. I am a (or is it an?) horrific grammar pedant and unapologetic style snob so certain things (comma splices, as-linked clauses, I'm looking at you) send me right off, but I'm not going to expect a starting-line writer to want to deal with that, so I'll filter myself because I don't want to be *that* guy


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## bdcharles (Aug 27, 2019)

JustRob said:


> [SIZE=+1]Write right; right?[/SIZE]
> (Er, is that correct use of a semicolon? Now I'm seriously worried ... as I ought to be.)



It's ... it's fine Rob. Do what you like with punctuation. See if I care.



 No, no, I'm joking. I second all your points above too. I even try and be elegantly eloquent in my work emails and Lord knows those Philistines don't deserve such golden words.


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## Plaidman (Aug 27, 2019)

bdcharles said:


> Well, people liked your LM entry so I think you have some skill in the field. But really, a lot of critique is reading with light touch feedback. Rather than have all the answers, technical terms, and fixes ready, you can say "paragraph XYZ didn't work; I felt bored/confused/my mind wandered" or what-have-you.
> 
> The temptation though may be that to provide credible critique you need to go super hard on people. It might be tempting, writing critique, to rip apart every little thing to showcase how you're a dyed-in-the-wool author that probably drank with Hemingway or something, but TBH I rarely see this go well, because it tends to a. get people's backs up and b. smother their voice and whatever nascent skill they may be nurturing, resulting in generic, timid prose. I try and just be nice with my critique. That doesn't mean I don't find fault; I do. I am a (or is it an?) horrific grammar pedant and unapologetic style snob so certain things (comma splices, as-linked clauses, I'm looking at you) send me right off, but I'm not going to expect a starting-line writer to want to deal with that, so I'll filter myself because I don't want to be *that* guy



I was quite surprised at how well the judges scored my entry.  I was also quite thankful for the critiques they included.  

I would think that being unnecessarily hard on people in a critique would serve more to discourage than to provide constructive input.


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## Plaidman (Aug 27, 2019)

Ralph Rotten said:


> That being said, one thing that writers seeking feedback could do to improve the process is to proof their content. I really hate trying to offer feedback on something that was dashed off in a hurry, without even editing.
> 
> Please, no hot-messes. It's rude to the critique'rs, and really it plays a negative role in the whole process. Errors will make a reviewer view your work in a harsh light. Clean it up before you post it, please.



I would think that you would want your work to be as well as you can do before asking for critiques.  Why ask someone to point out errors you know are there.


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## Plaidman (Aug 27, 2019)

bdcharles said:


> It might be tempting, writing critique, to rip apart every little thing to showcase how you're a dyed-in-the-wool author that probably drank with Hemingway or something...



I've drank at bars where Hemingway drank.  Does that count?:joker:


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## bdcharles (Aug 27, 2019)

Plaidman said:


> I've drank at bars where Hemingway drank.  Does that count?:joker:



Absolutely. Just make sure you mention it, vitriolically, whenever someone questions your methods or writes in a way you don't like. If you're in the same room as them fling something at them.


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## seigfried007 (Aug 27, 2019)

Plaidman said:


> I was quite surprised at how well the judges scored my entry.  I was also quite thankful for the critiques they included.
> 
> I would think that being unnecessarily hard on people in a critique would serve more to discourage than to provide constructive input.



Everyone's take is different--"harsh" and "helpful" are subjective terms. I prefer to be thorough and have a bad habit of breaking everything down and doing line edits when I crit. Some people like that, and some don't, but the killer is mostly that it appears to be a waste of my time. The whole point's to be the most help, right? Why spend the time reading and not be thorough with a crit? (There are tons of reasons).


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## Kane Jiang (Aug 28, 2019)

I would say as a new writer, you are more than capable of critiquing others' work. Even if you don't have the experience to know what kind of writing might be appropriate for certain magazines or genres of books, you can decide if a story is too complicated and whether you understand it.

I would be happy if a new writer could critique my work and tell me how my story made him/her feel.


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