# Taming a Wild Cat



## Book Cook (Sep 15, 2016)

This thread is of a more speculative nature. Here's what I had in mind. Imagine a man much stronger than men of our world are. We put him in an enclosed area with a, say, wild tiger. The man wants to tame the beast. The tiger attacks him, he catches its neck, then the paw, and overpowers it to the ground. He let's it go. It comes back for more. It can't do anything to the man. It's as if he's playing with a kitten.

He also starts beating it. A fist to the snout, a couple to the ribs. Not enough to break anything, but still painful. Sooner or later as it runs out of stamina, the cat, I assume, would retreat to some corner as far from the man as possible, coil up and hiss defensively at his approach. He tries to pet it; it swings its paw to scratch him. He catches the paw, drags it out of the corner and beats it some more and so on and so forth.

Now, I'd like to know how long do you think it would take for the tiger to be completely subservient to this man. Would it ever be completely subservient to him? Would it eventually just keep running at the very sight of him? In essence, do you think a man like this could tame a grown, wild tiger like this?


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## Sam (Sep 15, 2016)

People in _this _world live with tigers. 

If this were my story, I would consider having the man put in the cage with a young tiger -- just big enough to be dangerous, not yet old enough for it to be self-sufficient. Maybe the people who enclosed your protagonist weren't very forthcoming with food for the tiger. Let's say it's malnourished, injured in some way, and then I would have an easier time believing that the man tamed it if he nursed it back to health over time.

There are several videos on YouTube of people living with tigers. You might want to check out their handling of the big cats when they were little cubs.


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## Book Cook (Sep 15, 2016)

Sam said:


> People in _this _world live with tigers.
> 
> If this were my story, I would consider having the man put in the cage with a young tiger -- just big enough to be dangerous, not yet old enough for it to be self-sufficient. Maybe the people who enclosed your protagonist weren't very forthcoming with food for the tiger. Let's say it's malnourished, injured in some way, and then I would have an easier time believing that the man tamed it if he nursed it back to health over time.
> 
> There are several videos on YouTube of people living with tigers. You might want to check out their handling of the big cats when they were little cubs.



Yes, I know they do. But they raised them from cubs. And those people are still far away from being safe around them. A man raised a bear whose mother had died. They spent years together and the bear killed him on a whim.

That's not what I'm going for though. 

Here's another situation:

The man is in the forest, and the tiger--or a bear--sees him and goes on the hunt only to be stopped in much the same way as described before. When it tries to run, the man catches up to it and physically submits it over and over again, violently, though not hurting it enough to maim or break something.

Do you believe that *in this way* a wild cat or a bear could be tamed? Do you believe that the animal would eventually become so resigned that it would never dare strike against this man?


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## Terry D (Sep 15, 2016)

Book Cook said:


> This thread is of a more speculative nature. Here's what I had in mind. Imagine a man much stronger than men of our world are. We put him in an enclosed area with a, say, wild tiger. The man wants to tame the beast. The tiger attacks him, he catches its neck, then the paw, and overpowers it to the ground. He let's it go. It comes back for more. It can't do anything to the man. It's as if he's playing with a kitten.
> 
> He also starts beating it. A fist to the snout, a couple to the ribs. Not enough to break anything, but still painful. Sooner or later as it runs out of stamina, the cat, I assume, would retreat to some corner as far from the man as possible, coil up and hiss defensively at his approach. He tries to pet it; it swings its paw to scratch him. He catches the paw, drags it out of the corner and beats it some more and so on and so forth.
> 
> Now, I'd like to know how long do you think it would take for the tiger to be completely subservient to this man. Would it ever be completely subservient to him? Would it eventually just keep running at the very sight of him? In essence, do you think a man like this could tame a grown, wild tiger like this?



A wild cat will never be completely subservient to a human. You can not 'tame' a lion, a tiger, or any other large cat. You can get them to accept your presence, but they will never be tame. Fear and mistreatment will not tame a tiger, any more than fear and mistreatment will train a dog.


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## Book Cook (Sep 15, 2016)

Terry D said:


> A wild cat will never be completely subservient to a human. You can not 'tame' a lion, a tiger, or any other large cat. You can get them to accept your presence, but they will never be tame.



And that is exactly why I'm including a human of exceptional strength who can easily overpower them, where the cat would have to deal with his presence. Take our human out of your head. The ones who spend their time near these cats in the real world have to be careful, constantly gauging the cat's reactions and indulging them. In every such encounter, the cat is the boss and the human is a sidling whelp who needs to be careful not to get killed in one paw-swing. But what if the man was stronger?



Terry D said:


> Fear and mistreatment will not tame a tiger, any more than fear and mistreatment will train a dog.



Alright. But how do you think the cat would react in the given scenario? It can't escape; it can't kill the man.


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## Terry D (Sep 15, 2016)

Book Cook said:


> And that is exactly why I'm including a human of exceptional strength who can easily overpower them, where the cat would have to deal with his presence. Take our human out of your head. The ones who spend their time near these cats in the real world have to be careful, constantly gauging the cat's reactions and indulging them. In every such encounter, the cat is the boss and the human is a sidling whelp who needs to be careful not to get killed in one paw-swing. But what if the man was stronger?



It doesn't matter. The cat might curl up and shut down, or it might get itself killed attacking the super-man, but it will never become completely subservient. The big cats are apex predators, subservience to another species is nowhere in their DNA. Particularly tigers who are not social creatures and who do not have a hierarchical structure built into them (as opposed to lions in their prides). 





> Alright. But how do you think the cat would react in the given scenario? It can't escape; it can't kill the man.



As I said above, it might shut-down and become unresponsive, or it might keep attacking until it is killed. Humans and big cats only live together when the cats allow it. Ask Roy of Siegfried and Roy.


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## Bishop (Sep 15, 2016)

Terry D said:


> Ask Roy of Siegfried and Roy.


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## K.S. Crooks (Sep 17, 2016)

I recently watched something about evolution which pointed out a major difference between cats and dogs. Humans domesticated dogs and trained them for different tasks. Cats domesticated themselves to use humans for free food and shelter. This is why we have outdoor cats that roam their neighbourhoods on their own, day or night; but we have no outdoor dogs that behave in the same manner. With a large cat like a tiger this will be even more pronounced. I think the tiger will bide its time until they leave the enclosed area and it either manages to kill the person or escape. If the person helps the tiger in some way it may be will to repay the favor in the future or follow the person for their own benefit.


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## GKGhost (Oct 12, 2016)

Couple of things

1) Tigers are very, very powerful. Someone mentioned watch videos of tigers with their owners... try watching videos of tigers with their prey. There's a tiger in India, Raja, who is beautifully recorded twisting the neck & head around [breaking it's spine] of a water buffalo with all the ease you'd have twisting around a piece of licorice. Raja is also shown taken down a bull gaur. Gaur are no dairy cattle, they are the biggest extant bovine in the world. 


2) Review Jack London's _Call of the Wild_. Similar theme. Beat animal = "tame" animal. But London makes a very specific point regarding the interaction between Buck and the man in the red sweater. Buck is beaten but _*not*_ broken, he doesn't quite acknowledge that the man with the club is his complete master. He doesn't roll over and show his belly to stop the beatings as other dogs are mentioned in that section to do - London makes a point again by stating how other dogs fawn, wag their tail & lick the sweater wearer's hand. Rather, as shown later, it is care and affection that "tames" the beast. 

My point with that if a dog, which is "man's best friend", won't submit after getting beaten to a pulp why would a tiger? 


3) Tigers, lions, etc., etc., wolfdogs, etc., are not tame animals. They aren't Lassie. That is a misconception many want-to-be owners make and it is a misconception that can cost them, someone else, or the animal their lives. Even animals raised from kit, cub and pup can easily turn upon their "owner" given by the simple indication that owner an't "top dog" any more. After all, just watch what a cat or a dog even given free reign to embrace its hunter instincts does and both cats and dogs have long since fallen into the category of domesticated. 

Want an example - google Rodney McAllister, St. Louis, about 15 years ago. Those dogs were people's pets. Less than half of them were put down because their "owners" came a calling. 


So think about it. Tiger - 600+ pounds of solid bone and muscle. Your character is going to have to be very strong, not to mention having skin like an elephant's. Then there's the cliché and boredom. If your character can whip a tiger around by the tail just what _can't_ he do? How far is a reader going to read after reading such a scene?


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