# it's so "sexist".



## dither (Dec 16, 2018)

It's funny how, suddenly, oh so suddenly, and without warning, or BECKONING even, memories come back to haunt. They just barge into   the forefront of your mind. And there they are.
Well? I'm having one right now and it's so sexist but I refuse to feel bad about it. I'm harking back to the 80s and things were different then.
Even now, after all the years that I've been a member here I'm unsure of how far to go before I offend and I so DO NOT want to do that.


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## Winston (Dec 16, 2018)

I don't try to offend.  And if (when) I do, I take the rebuke with a grain of salt.
Times change.  I will, when forced to.


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## Underd0g (Dec 16, 2018)

I was 16 when I entered in a city-wide, five mile race on skates. Back then you raced on wood wheels.
I was so proud when I passed a 12 year old girl after about 2 1/2 miles.
So when I say somebody skates like a girl, it's a real compliment.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 16, 2018)

I figure so many people are looking to be offended these days, that any time somebody takes offense at something I say, I should probably just say "you're welcome" and not spend any time thinking about it.

As for being sexist... If women don't want to be complimented on their appearance, or to be noticed... Why spend so much time fussing over their clothes, hair, paint jobs, etc?

Sorry, girls, but if you dress and paint up like you're sellin' something... or at least trying to show it all off... don't be too upset if somebody notices or makes ya an offer.  *shrug*




G.D.


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## Dluuni (Dec 16, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> As for being sexist... If women don't want to be complimented on their appearance, or to be noticed... Why spend so much time fussing over their clothes, hair, paint jobs, etc?


...Because we like to look good for the sake of looking good? We aren't "selling" anything, just cleaning and detailing what we've got. Just because you wash your car doesn't mean you're putting a for sale sign on it.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 16, 2018)

And the reason you wash your car is because you want it to look good and for people to notice it? No?

( By the way, I've always been _very_ lazy about washing a vehicle; because all I want out of it is for the damn thing to get me where I want to go. )

The point being, it's done to get attention. Positive attention.

And yes, it's all a matter of vanity and pride.

So why get pissed off when you succeed?  After all, it's not like anyone can dictate how the world perceives them.

All anyone can do is present something different if they don't get the reaction they were after.



G.D.


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## Reeba (Dec 17, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> And the reason you wash your car is because you want it to look good and for people to notice it? No?
> 
> ( By the way, I've always been _very_ lazy about washing a vehicle; because all I want out of it is for the damn thing to get me where I want to go. )
> 
> ...



I wash my car because I like the way it looks when it's clean. Nothing at all to do with attention I assure you. 

As a woman I am uncomfortable with the notion of women's appearances "selling" anything because it certainly is not true for me. I have been happily married for twenty years and I still wear make up and try to dress nice when I go to the grocery despite not caring at all whether others find me attractive or not. 

If you want a motive all I can tell you is its simply because I like how I look in the mirror. That the look I strive for is the look that I recognize as being mine. There's no ulterior motive.

You might rethink your generalizations regarding women or you might not. Up to you. But you should probably keep them to yourself.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 17, 2018)

Reeba said:


> You might rethink your generalizations regarding women or you might not. Up to you. But you should probably keep them to yourself.



My generalizations apply to men as well as women.

And... You're welcome.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 17, 2018)

Winston said:


> Times change.  I will, when forced to.



I'll change when it makes sense to, or when the changes make sense. 

Meanwhile, observation, education, and rational thinking concerning those observations will remain my guide.

...especially where emotionalism, opinion, and a sense of entitlement are concerned.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 17, 2018)

By the way, here's a bit from my favorite old Lesbian:

Truth Bombs about Feminism, Male Creativity & Generation Snowflake - Camille Paglia

Gonna really hate to see her go... :icon_frown:



G.D.


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## Kevin (Dec 17, 2018)

"I see the girls go by dressed in their summer clothes."  That,  and the rest of it... I sometimes feel like I need one of those hand maids tale hats that the handmaids wear. 

I never say anything- not to strangers- The more attractive they look the more I look the other way or 'blur' my mental attention. They get that when I walk by- basically like I'm an imbecile totally oblivious to the world. I sometimes even do the lip thing. You know, with your finger: "b-b-b-b--" It's the only safe thing. 

I once passed 3 coeds hiking in their underwear.  I saw them from a great distance. It was a warm day, and as I got closer I saw that the material was not swimsuit. They must've just...stripped their clothes off. It was warm out. Hiking shoes, socks, and underwear, and young bodies. Girls....I wanted to....look, not look, not say anything, keel over, pass as if I were not even there. I did the last one.


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## dither (Dec 17, 2018)

Reeba said:


> I wash my car because I like the way it looks when it's clean. Nothing at all to do with attention I assure you.
> 
> As a woman I am uncomfortable with the notion of women's appearances "selling" anything because it certainly is not true for me. I have been happily married for twenty years and I still wear make up and try to dress nice when I go to the grocery despite not caring at all whether others find me attractive or not.
> 
> ...



My opening post was/is, to say the least, vague.
Having read your comments I almost came to "what the hell, why don't I post my thoughts and be damned?"
And then I read this one.


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## Arachne (Dec 17, 2018)

I really don't get this thread at all, or why it belongs on this forum, but I know it's leaving me with an uncomfortable, queasy feeling inside. I'm sick to the back teeth of people generalising about the different genders. We are all HUMAN BEINGS and should be treated equally and with respect. 

I'm going to do some writing now  

Arachne


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## Guard Dog (Dec 17, 2018)

I've been writing all day long.

Also had time to dig up this. Because I like folks to know that I'm not just talking out my ass, like some, but actually listen to people who have more education and experience than anyone here with this stuff, and who can actually answer some of the questions I have about what's gone wrong in people's heads.

And yeah, I've actually watched all of that one and many more like it, by other folks of the same caliber and degree of knowledge.


G.D.


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## Winston (Dec 17, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> ...Also had time to dig up this.
> G.D.



Man, I respect the fact that you had the fortitude to sit through that.  I stop listening after I read the open graphics saying "Free Speech_ Allowed_"
How very kind and progressive.  Allowing free speech.  
Free Speech to many people is like a choke collar on a dog.  Despite how much they claim to like it, they sure are ready to tug and strangle it when it suits them.  

And it does disturb me when adults are made "uncomfortable" by words they don't agree with.  As rational creatures, we can either retort or withdraw from the conversation.  But wanting to silence a discussion because it is something that we don't "like"?  Those are the seeds of Totalitarianism.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 17, 2018)

Winston said:


> I stop listening after I read the open graphics saying "Free Speech_ Allowed_"



You really should sit through the whole thing some time. There's a lot there that makes sense of the mess that things have become, and some pretty good thoughts of why and how.

...also a lot that people just don't want to see or admit to. Like the fact you can be free or protected, but never both.
( And also the fact that if you want someone else to do the job, you'll never really be either one. )




G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Arachne said:


> I really don't get this thread at all, or why it belongs on this forum...



Because this is a writing forum, and people write about men, women, and their relationships.

Because they need to know things about that other than their own empty-headed, inexperienced  opinions, if there's going to be any truth or reality to their writings... even if they don't agree with what they learn.

So, with that... More.

And remember, even if you don't agree with it, or believe it... it's still something you need to be aware of and be knowledgeable of to be an effective writer.



G.D.


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## Kevin (Dec 18, 2018)

It's worth watching. It's anti-Stalinism. "We shouldn't even be discussing it" is a common theme right now being promulgated.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Kevin said:


> It's worth watching. It's anti-Stalinism. "We shouldn't even be discussing it" is a common theme right now being promulgated.



I think that's where people like me have an advantage, due to having spent time as a cowboy, wrangling cattle; we're equally at home wrangling angry/scared heifers with "mad cow disease" or territorial bulls, snorting and pawing the ground, trying to prove how tough they are.

It's all just "another day at the office" for me, whereas I am an absolute and total shock for them, and something they just can't cope with.

I never back up or back down... so anybody wanting to geld me has to be willing to pick up a knife and use it. 

...and had damn well better know how, as well. 

Because I certainly do, and am more than willing.



G.D.


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## Kevin (Dec 18, 2018)

Far left and far right meet each other at authoritarian police state. The kids are not being taught this.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

I've been part of that police state.

And trust me, you don't want people like me - who don't happen to think for themselves, unlike me - knocking on your door at any hour of the day.



G.D.


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## dither (Dec 18, 2018)

I have given some of the comments in this thread a great deal of thought.

Reeba says she wears make up and tries to dress nice.
Why shouldn't she?
Look good feel good imo.
There doesn't HAVE to be an ulterior motive.

But Reeba,
what about women who AREN'T happily married. Not even happy perhaps, and they're open to the possibility of meeting new people, forming new friendships/relationships/whatever. Might such women, and men of course, wear make-up? Try to dress nice? And put themselves out there?

Arachne,
I get that you don't get this thread and no it doesn't belong here. It was started in a moment of weakness and it should be scrawled on the wall in the dirtiest dingiest corner of a men's room. Maybe I shall post my reason for starting it sometime in the future.

And finally, last but not least, Guard Dog.
Guard Dog Guard Dog Guard Dog.

I like your tone.
Straight talking, no nonsense, this is how I am, take it or leave it Guard Dog.
 I  find nothing offensive in how you speak, intended or other wise, no malice in your manner and I applaud your honesty.

Long may you all post your views here.
Long may we continue to express our views here.
And most importantly peace to you all.

dither...


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Peace hell, tell me I should keep my opinions to myself, while you express your own? And think you're entitled to that?

Not a snowflake's chance in hell.

The only thing that'll be left is "pieces"... of you, if I have anything at all to say about it.

What's wrong with this world will never be corrected by silence, or sitting down and shutting up when told.

The only way anything will be fixed is by eradicating ignorance and stupidity.

And you don't do that by following or obeying the inexperienced, the ignorant, the unintelligent, or those motivated by their own self-interest.

So, no apologies, folks. I'll stick my neck out for what's right, the same as I always have, and chew what's wrong to bits, given half a chance.

Get used to it.


G.D.


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## Dluuni (Dec 18, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> As for being sexist... If women don't want to be complimented on their appearance, or to be noticed... Why spend so much time fussing over their clothes, hair, paint jobs, etc?
> Sorry, girls, but if you dress and paint up like you're sellin' something... or at least trying to show it all off... don't be too upset if somebody notices or makes ya an offer.  *shrug*


I'll note the other side of this, since it strayed a little bit that way now. 

Comments that you are filing away under "compliments" by men, which you are stating confusion about being received poorly, are typically not actually compliments.


Frequently, I will complement another woman. I will express that she chose a good set of colors for her clothing, or that some aspect of her makeup is nicely done, in ways that I wish I knew how to do, or that I appreciate something she said or did that I wish more people would do. Those have always been received well. Sometimes someone will remark that I look like I'm in a happy mood that day, and I appreciate that kind of compliment. On occasion, some random guy will gush a little bit of extra politeness, and asked me questions or strike up some small conversation. I find this flattering, and I have no issue with this.


Sometimes -- and bizarrely this only seemed to happen _before _I transitioned -- some guy will make some crude comment about some aspect of my physical appearance which I have no control over. From having thrown out a couple comments like that before, these seem directed not me, but as a show of dominance for the benefit of other men around. The woman in question is merely a prop, and object with which the man in question displays their character for the sake of their audience. Being reduced to a prop in this way is icky, particularly when the aspect of character they wish to display is one that is often expressed in dangerous ways.


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## dither (Dec 18, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> Peace hell, tell me I should keep my opinions to myself, while you express your own? And think you're entitled to that?
> 
> Not a snowflake's chance in hell.
> 
> ...




Just try to see where the other guy is coming from.
That's all I ask.
Accept and try to understand.
That's not to say we can't disagree but we don't have to rip each others heads off. Eh?:-|


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Sorry, got interrupted and screwed up this post during an edit.


 Dluuni, I can't recreate what I posted before. 

There's just too much chaos here right now for me to even begin.

All I'm going to say, for now, is do not make the mistake of judging me by what you see in everyone else.

Because that is most certainly not me.


G.D.
( Who's losing his goddamned mind right now, thanks to... Ah, nevermind.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

dither said:


> Just try to see where the other guy is coming from.
> That's all I ask.
> Accept and try to understand.
> That's not to say we can't disagree but we don't have to rip each others heads off. Eh?:-|



I always look at things from as many different perspectives as possible.
( Most other people do not, however. Their own is it, and the most important. )

I am not your enemy.

I do not have anything against you, nor dislike you.

I have also always been viewed as being as 'odd' or 'unfitting' as you may have been, or felt like you were, even if it's in a different way or for different reasons.

But as I've said in the earlier post, I make no apologies or excuses for that.

...provided the same courtesies are extended to me as are being asked for.

It's really simple with me: Ask. Talk to me if I say something you don't understand, or doesn't strike you the right way.

I won't lie to you. I'll explain exactly what I mean, and why I think that way.

Then we can fight, if one of us feels the need. But not before.

It really is that simple.

And this goes for everyone. Not just one particular person.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Okay... finally got the 'fires' put out...

Listen up, all you folks with a mad on about people that notice your appearance, and have thoughts or views on that:

There are still A LOT of women out there that either A) appreciate that they are seen favorably, because of how they look, or B) actively use their appearance to their advantage.

So, don't blame men for what a majority of women, and entire industries are still promoting, and making use of.

Also, don't blame every man in existence for being the lecherous bastard that SOME indeed are.

Now, I'm not gonna get into minorities, and how little power they actually have these days. But you need to figure out if you're in one or not, and if so, what you can actually do about that, if anything.

Because I can assure you, that if you're in the wrong one, all you'll ever have is misery, if you don't understand that, and take the appropriate action, and stop blaming those that aren't giving you trouble, or are a part of your problem. ( Because those are usually a minority too, despite how it may seem at times. )

Anyway... I hope this makes sense, and apologize if it doesn't. it's just one of those mornings here.



G.D.

Edit: A semi-explanation: Half the stuff in my house runs on batteries... My laptop, mouse, and keyboard do, for example. The 43 inch TV I use for a monitor does not, however, so when some dumbass or drunk hits a utility pole, and half the things I'm using suddenly quit working, and then the dogs start raising hell and wanting to go out...

...well, I just don't multi-task that well. Especially when I'm in the middle of an edit.


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## Dluuni (Dec 18, 2018)

One, I'm not mad at you. You just happen to be saying the exact same things I hear all the time that has the same faults. I'm responding to those faults in the text. 

Two, nobody is blaming all men. If you are at the pool, and somebody runs by and the lifeguard yells "No running," do you get upset at being yelled at? Were you running? No? 

Three, it really doesn't take very many times of being attacked or hospitalized by venomous snakes in your house before you lose all patience with finding snakes in your bathroom. Quit acting like people are being unreasonable for taking reasonable precautions against very common dangers that can have fatal consequences. 

I think you mentioned being experienced and trained with firearms once. I picture you being like my father in that regard, making sure to choose the right rifle and to sight it in and clean it before going out to hunt. Picture your reaction to someone in your house picking up a high caliber handgun, loading it, chambering a bullet, then casually waving it around in your face, playing with the safety, and juggling it as punctuation of casual conversation. If you ask for them to put the gun away and unload it, they sneer and complain that nothing bad will happen, telling you to shut up and belittling you for not understanding how guns work. 

That's exactly how women feel around a lot of men, which is why we grump, and proceed to be told that we are being oversensitive, nothing bad will happen, etc. It's pretty frustrating.


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## Kevin (Dec 18, 2018)

I like looking at made up women. I'm amazed at the creativity, the ideas or themes behind their dress. The clothes, the makeup... How in the--do they come up with that stuff? (t g my wife dresses me) I would never think to complain about it. The opposite. Bring it, please! I love it! 

Now then, being anxious or afraid around men....How do you do it? Im not small or weak, I boxed off and on for twenty-years, and I'm sometimes concerned for my safety around men. I think about it. There's definitely creeps out there. Guys get raped, sometimes. I think I would be a jiu-jitsu master by now if I was female.


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## PiP (Dec 18, 2018)

What i can never understand are the women who wear very low cut tops so everything is on display, and skimpy skirts that leave nothing to the imagination. ... they then wonder why men look at them and make suggestive comments. :scratch: If they dress like prostitutes of course men are going to think they are fair game.


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## Plasticweld (Dec 18, 2018)

PiP said:


> What i can never understand are the women who wear very low cut tops so everything is on display, and skimpy skirts that leave nothing to the imagination. ... they then wonder why men look at them and make suggestive comments. :scratch: If they dress like prostitutes of course men are going to think they are fair game.




Power!  any woman knows it takes only a low cut top and a short skirt to make a man stammer.  If she has little else to offer or even if she has an MBA, there is no denying the ability to get what you want with just a smile and a wink. 


I can put on my sexiest lumber jack out fit, comb my hair, use the finest of manors and kings English, and still be ignored. 

You might say, I might just be a tad jealous


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## SueC (Dec 18, 2018)

Don't forget the Old Spice


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> I can put on my sexiest lumber jack out fit, comb my hair, use the finest of manors and kings English, and still be ignored.




[video=youtube;sZa26_esLBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZa26_esLBE[/video]

Lumberjack Song

:icon_cheesygrin:


G.D.

P.S. I'll get to some of the other posts later. Right now, I'm just waking up and don't have enough coffee in me for more than this.
( Yeah, I'm sleeping weird hours again. )


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

Okay, I'm wide awake now, and have the required amount of caffeine in me, so I can think clearly enough to address some of this.




Dluuni said:


> One, I'm not mad at you. You just happen to be saying the exact same things I hear all the time that has the same faults. I'm responding to those faults in the text.



You are addressing what you personally see as "faults". Faults in _MY_ thinking.

The fact of the matter is, I spent part of this morning talking to another woman here who does NOT find fault with what I've said, and there's another one just above this post that's said basically the same thing I have, concerning women, and how they want to demand a given behavior out of men ( and some women as well ) no mater how they dress, or what sort of 'signals' they are sending or broadcasting.

And further more, I personally know a great many other women, right here in the 'real world' that think and feel the same as I do, and would tell you or anybody else to your faces, given the chance, that they do.

If you go to my profile page here, and look at my 'Friends', you'll find 4 people, currently; 3 women, and 1 man. That's about the same ratio, gender-wise, of my friends and acquaintances in 'the real word'.

I can also assure you that none of them have ever found the faults that you claim to see with what I've said. They are of the same mind that everyone, no matter their gender, has to take responsibility for their own actions, and not expect the rest of the world to treat them how they feel entitled to be, simply because that's what they want and demand, no matter what they say or do, or the image they present.



Dluuni said:


> Two, nobody is blaming all men. If you are at the pool, and somebody runs by and the lifeguard yells "No running," do you get upset at being yelled at? Were you running? No?



Bull. Shit.

There is quite a number of women these days that blame EVERY MAN for the actions of SOME.

The 'Social Justice Warrior', the 'New Wave Feminists', as Camille Paglia has termed them, as well as the 'snowflakes' all do.

Fortunately, at least in my immediate area, they are still nothing more than a very noisy, overly-emotional, and not very intelligent minority.

I can show you places here on the web though -writing forums in fact - where they are not.

And yeah, I try to stay the hell away from those places and those people at all cost.

Also, if you'd watch either of the full-length videos I posted links to here on this thread, you'd see ample evidence of what I'm saying... and also an old transgendered professor who doesn't stand for it one second.



Dluuni said:


> Three, it really doesn't take very many times of being attacked or hospitalized by venomous snakes in your house before you lose all patience with finding snakes in your bathroom. Quit acting like people are being unreasonable for taking reasonable precautions against very common dangers that can have fatal consequences.



So now you're comparing men to venomous snakes?  Well that certainly sheds new light on the conversation.

Especially since rattle snakes and such are equally dangerous to both men and women. And also shouldn't be invited or allowed into one's house.

By the way, if I ever have reason to 'bite' you, I will not coil up under your bed and wait for a chance to nail your foot or ankle.

I'll come to your face, you'll see me coming, and know exactly what's about to happen and why.

And I'll have a damned good reason for it.



Dluuni said:


> I think you mentioned being experienced and trained with firearms once. I picture you being like my father in that regard, making sure to choose the right rifle and to sight it in and clean it before going out to hunt. Picture your reaction to someone in your house picking up a high caliber handgun, loading it, chambering a bullet, then casually waving it around in your face, playing with the safety, and juggling it as punctuation of casual conversation. If you ask for them to put the gun away and unload it, they sneer and complain that nothing bad will happen, telling you to shut up and belittling you for not understanding how guns work.



Yes, I am very well trained in the use of guns, knives, and a very long list of other weapons. I have even won a minor contest at a Ren Fair by shooting a man in the face at 25 or 30 yards with a bow. 

But that fact still doesn't make your above-argument anything but a straw man... or straw woman, if you prefer.

Because if I were to ALLOW someone to do that, then I'm as much as fault as they are , for one.

And for two, an untrained woman is just as likely to do that as an untrained man.

Whereas, either a trained woman or trained man is most definitely NOT going to do such a thing.

So you're talking about a matter of knowledge and permission here, not anything that remotely relates to GENDER.

And for what it's worth, I have taught a good number of women to not only shoot a gun, but also how to fight with one as well. And there is a difference between those two things.

I'll add one other thing to that; I've been shot at several times in my life, and had guns pulled on me more than once. And in the three instances that immediately come to mind regarding shots actually fired, two of those it was a woman doing the shooting, and in the third, I can't tell you for certain, because I and the person I was with got the hell out of there before we saw who was doing the shooting.
( About a dozen or so other people were right behind us, and I don't know if any of them saw the shooter either. )



Dluuni said:


> That's exactly how women feel around a lot of men, which is why we grump, and proceed to be told that we are being oversensitive, nothing bad will happen, etc. It's pretty frustrating.



So what? Lots of people make me get a lot more cautious than I might ordinarily be. My last trip to the place where I buy tobacco and liquor, a woman came in that had myself and both of the clerks watching her closely because she was just acting... odd. I don't think any of us would have been surprised if she'd pulled out a gun and tried to rob the place.

I can promise you that she damn sure would have been, at the reception she'd have gotten if she did though. Because it would have been loud and messy.

So in conclusion, anybody that wants to squawk and holler, and demand the world be made safe for them, all I can say is it ain't ever gonna happen.

Life is dangerous, and it's up to each person to see to their own safety and well-being. Because when things go wrong, and your life is on the line, seconds matter. And help is most likely minutes away, at best.

And due to that fact, I, and both of my next door neighbors have carry permits and guns. And there aren't any of us overly-worried about what someone says or does, since we are quite capable of dealing with it, no matter what the case is. ( The neighbor lady is a little thing that probably couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper sack. But she can damn sure shoot well enough to drop even the largest of men without a problem. )


I think that's about it for this one, for now.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

PiP said:


> What i can never understand are the women who wear very low cut tops so everything is on display, and skimpy skirts that leave nothing to the imagination. ... they then wonder why men look at them and make suggestive comments. :scratch: If they dress like prostitutes of course men are going to think they are fair game.



You know what really gets me, PiP?  The fact that most women have no idea what they're mimicking, as far as their appearance goes, when they put on lipstick and blush. Or what sort of subliminal/biological signals they're putting out.

Guess what, ladies... you're duplicating what naturally occurs when a woman is sexually aroused. And cosmetics were specifically invented to make women more appealing to men by doing that.

Don't believe me? Do some research on the subject.




G.D.


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## PiP (Dec 19, 2018)

When I refer to the way *some* women dress, it is purely the lack of clothing not make up. Strutting around half-naked must be like putting a juicy steak in front of a starving dog and telling it not to touch and certainly not look... and don't pass comment.

...and this whole business of #meto makes me mad. I wonder how many of those women led the men on and now seeing the chance of a little publicity jump on the #meto bandwagon. 

And..some of this stuff happened years ago. BAck in the 70,s 80's and 90's the working environment and attitude was different then.   We learn and move forward. So to these women who dig up old gripes get over yourself and don't try and apply today's standards to something that happened 30 years ago. Yep, I can say this because I was sexually harassed and am pleased to see there are different work ethics in the office. But I will also say... don't abuse it, ladies. Don't try and give a man those come-to-bed eyes in the office when you want something done and then turn on him when he reacts. Play nicely. You know we are far more powerful than men by just using our brain.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

More educational fun. This time twice as much:

Modern Times: Camille Paglia & Jordan B Peterson

The real interesting stuff concerning genders and society these days starts at about the 30 minute mark, if you want to fast-forward to that portion.




G.D.


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## Phil Istine (Dec 19, 2018)

PiP said:


> When I refer to the way *some* women dress, it is purely the lack of clothing not make up. Strutting around half-naked must be like putting a juicy steak in front of a starving dog and telling it not to touch and certainly not look... and don't pass comment.



I guess it's lucky me for being a vegetarian.
Having said that, I wish a certain woman would return to a writing group I sometimes go to.  My writing always takes a more lustful direction when she's around


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## Plasticweld (Dec 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> [video=youtube;sZa26_esLBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZa26_esLBE[/video]
> 
> Lumberjack Song
> 
> :icon_cheesygrin



Over the years I doubt I have run into more than a handful of people who have 'not' felt the need to sing that song to me.  Amazing how one song can have such a long lasting effect on people's impressions 


I would be remiss if I did not thank you for sharing


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> Over the years I doubt I have run into more than a handful of people who have 'not' felt the need to sing that song to me.  Amazing how one song can have such a long lasting effect on people's impressions
> 
> 
> I would be remiss if I did not thank you for sharing



Actually, I'm the one who should be thanking you for providing an opening to have a little fun here, what with all the 'serious talk' and all.

I can only be 'educational' for so long before I have to break out into some kind'a silliness, after all. :joker:




G.D.


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## bdcharles (Dec 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> I have even won a minor contest at a Ren Fair by shooting a man in the face at 25 or 30 yards with a bow.



:O That's taking re-enactment a bit far isn't it? Was this man at least stuffed with a common agricultural byproduct or something?


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

bdcharles said:


> :O That's taking re-enactment a bit far isn't it? Was this man at least stuffed with a common agricultural byproduct or something?



Nope, a live man standing behind a plywood castle wall, and wearing armor and a helmet.

They gave me a bow with about a 30 pound draw weight, and 3 arrows with padded ends.

I happened to live next to an archery range at the time, and had spent a lot of time there, so I put two out of the three in the fellow's face before he finally managed to duck the last one.

His wife, who was 'attending' me, seemed to find the whole thing rather funny. 

I've still got the certificate and a few pictures of it all around here somewhere. I'll have to post 'em if I ever run across them again.

Also, my wife made the mistake of hiring one of the "kissing wenches" to try to embarrass me at that same event.

Needless to say, that didn't go according to their plan, and that cute little thing ended up with her lipstick well and truly smeared, and fanning herself by the time I let her go.

( Hey, she grabbed me first. So I can't be held at fault for grabbing back, can I ?  :lol: :devilish:  )

( No, I can't be embarrassed by women that gorgeous coming at me all puckered up and saying "Look at the pretty boy!"  It just don't happen. )






G.D.


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## Gumby (Dec 19, 2018)

I honestly think this whole men vs women thing is silly. Men naturally excel at some things and women naturally excel at others, then there is an overlap area that we can both excel in and there are those among us who excel at everything no matter their gender. ( I kinda hate and admire those people at the same time )

Sure, as a woman I've been patronized by some of the male species as if I was just a bit of fluff and no, I didn't like it. But I didn't feel the need to 'prove' them wrong by demolishing them. I know what I am and who I am. I just continued being me and let the chips fall where they may.

I am appalled by the shrieking feminists who dress as vaginas and act as if men must be driven from the human species. They also embarrass me, as a woman. 

Women, you are going to get looked at, ogled, cat-called, and sometimes just made uncomfortable by some men. If you dress in a way that displays your goodies, then double down on that. You don't have to dress like a nun, just respect yourself and let your manner of conducting yourself demand respect from men (and women) Will you always get it, no. But you will get it from those men and women who are decent people. You will never get it from those men and women who are creeps, no matter what you do.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

Hell, Gumby... Don't you know you can't just go 'round talking sense like that to people???

You'll make their poor heads explode!





G.D.


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## Gumby (Dec 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> Hell, Gumby... Don't you know you can't just go 'round talking sense like that to people???
> 
> You'll make their poor heads explode!
> 
> ...


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## Arachne (Dec 19, 2018)

PiP said:


> What i can never understand are the women who wear very low cut tops so everything is on display, and skimpy skirts that leave nothing to the imagination. ... they then wonder why men look at them and make suggestive comments. :scratch: If they dress like prostitutes of course men are going to think they are fair game.



I understand what you are saying here and I think the confusion comes from misunderstanding mainly. 

I don't see any examples of what you are describing as I don't go out much anymore but I think I know what you mean. It might help you understand what's happening if you think about the way in which women are conditioned, in our western society, to dress provocatively to get male attention; you only have to turn on a music channel for this, or look at magazine racks. In Britain for decades we have had a couple of horrific daily newspapers, sat in the homes of millions of little girls, with supersized images of topless women included for men to look at while they eat their breakfast, or to discuss with their mates at work. Thankfully that seems to be slowly on it's way out (one of these papers is frequently given away for free now, so hard it must be to sell).

Anyway, not everyone is educated and well brought up and yes, perhaps the women you are referring to, with all their lovely wares on display, might be looking for male attention, but I think the problems arise with the confusion about what kind of attention is wanted. So, even if she is out looking for a fella, that doesn't mean she wants men making lewd comments or such. I really can't see many women being angry when approached respectfully by a nice guy, making a genuine and polite advance towards her. An offered drink or even a cheesy line, so long as it's not creepy, should never elicit an angry response. However, comments like 'nice tits' or 'get them out for the lads', or inappropriate touching, is likely not the kind of attention she was hoping for. She's probably out looking for a Mark Darcy not a Daniel Cleaver, or a Spiderman, if you like, not a Benny Hill anyway, that's for sure! (apologies for all the British refs, you may have to google). And she, mistakenly or not, thinks she needs to get her baps out to get him. 

Your use of the phrase 'fair game' (widely used in this context, so I'm not pinning this on you), is a good example of this misunderstanding. The phrase has, far from subtle, connotations of hunter and hunted, explaining why some types of attention may be misguided. After all, the prey in any situation is never having any fun - ask any rabbit that's had my lurcher's nose up it's arse. Do some men really want to prey on women? I don't get this, we are not your enemy. Women are beautiful, deeply emotional beings who, in terms of a relationship, usually just want to be loved and respected. Why would a man want to use his strength and power, which is thankfully often used to wonderful effect to protect and support the women around them, to prey on them? It is that kind of language which causes women to frequently be intimidated by men, especially those in groups. 

I saw a good example of this recently when I was waiting outside the bank in town and a lovely-looking woman walked by. She was very sexy, with a short dress on and hair and make-up all done up etc, and looked like she was on her way to meet someone for a date or whatever. She walked past a group of 3 men who noticed her immediately and made a couple of comments then turned to follow her a bit to get a better look. Now, the comments weren't rude or derogatory as such, something like 'Wow, look at her', with guffaws and head-shaking etc. However, when she heard them following she looked immediately scared and picked up her pace to get where she was going quicker. I understand how that feels and I felt for her (think school bullies stood in a group as you walked past them into school). So you see those lads may have thought what they said was not wrong, and in different circumstances it wouldn't have been, but in that particular situation it probably felt like she had a pack of wolves at her back - a feeling caused by another, different kind of conditioning, which makes us feel that we are not safe when out alone, something drilled into us directly and indirectly also from an early age and throughout our whole lives. So, an acceptable advance would have been for one of the men to stop her politely and ask her out, which would not have left her intimidated and frightened, but would have been flattering and pleasant. 

Surely this way of approaching someone is better all round? A man who approaches a woman with true respect cannot be accused of anything untoward. If there are some women who get offended at even this, though I have never seen this, then forgive them their ignorance as they are victims of this crazy world we are all bouncing around on. 

It is our job to teach girls not to see their looks as their only asset, and to teach boys that decent men don't prey on women. That way we might all be able to rub along a bit better in the future. 

That turned out a bit long, sorry  

Arachne


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## Arachne (Dec 19, 2018)

Gumby said:


> I am appalled by the shrieking feminists who dress as vaginas



Damn it, there goes my idea for a Christmas day outfit...:-?


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## Kevin (Dec 19, 2018)

There's no excuse for loutish behavior. Doesn't matter what she's wearing. Effing grow up. 

I was was actually amused at the vagina hats. Made for a quick chuckle. That took some balls.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

Kevin said:


> I was was actually amused at the vagina hats. Made for a quick chuckle. *That took some balls.*



No, not really...  Just the opposite, in fact. :razz:



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

Arachne said:


> Damn it, there goes my idea for a Christmas day outfit...:-?



Just don't forget the Santa hat... :santa:



G.D.


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## SueC (Dec 19, 2018)

> ...and this whole business of #meto makes me mad. I wonder how many of those women led the men on and now seeing the chance of a little publicity jump on the #meto bandwagon.



Finally. I have had growing concerns about this movement for quite some time, and I'm glad to see your comment. There seems to be no exploration of events, other than the word of a woman who feels she can gain some notoriety, perhaps. What else would be the point of waiting 30 or 40 years to come forward? I think the movement has gone so far now as to be irrelevant - but still capable of destroying a persons livelihood - and still seen by some as valid. My youngest daughter, who to my knowledge has never been harassed that way, thought it was wonderful that women were finally able to speak out, but I think even she has changed her mind by now. Too much - too long ago.



> BAck in the 70,s 80's and 90's the working environment and attitude was different then.



To women who grew up in the 50's and 60's, they were thought of as times of peace and tranquility. Modern women may describe that era as oppressive and controlling (by men), but those of us who were working in the 70's and 80's did develop a compliance and a general tolerance of our environment. That does not mean we were ineffective, or ignorant. We just did our jobs and knew the landscape and sure, at times, when a man was too aggressive, he was reported ... and dealt with by management. He probably didn't loose his job, his livelihood, his reputation, all on the word of a woman.

As a working woman after 2000, I saw men fired for things like commenting that a woman looked nice. She would report the remarks to HR, and he would be gone. One woman had a sixty-year-old agent fired because he "looked at her" a certain way. It was a very hard time then, and I had hoped we were past it until this whole new "metoo" thing came up. I guess I'm just more tolerant than some, but while I have been on the receiving end in my work life, I never felt compelled to destroy a person's life.

This is just me -


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

Y'all really need to take a look at those videos I posted links to.

Especially the one  on the college campus in England, where this stuff is discussed with college-aged girls.

It'll scare the hell out o' ya, how some of 'em think. Or more correctly, how they don't.




G.D.


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## dither (Dec 19, 2018)

I am amazed at how this thread has gone, and I thank you all for not kicking the table over. I have taken a long hard look at my reason for starting this thread. Yes, it was a memory of something that happened way back and maybe I was wrong, misinformed, and maybe, very probably more likely, misjudged someone. No matter.

Your views have given me, and some of you perhaps, something to think about, and maybe, just maybe, we've grown some.

What great place this is.


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## Arachne (Dec 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> Just don't forget the Santa hat... :santa:
> 
> 
> 
> G.D.



Already on my friend :smile:


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

<-- Mine too.

The larger version:
​




G.D.


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## Arachne (Dec 19, 2018)

Wow, you don’t look how I expected at all. How do you get your fur so shiny?


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## PiP (Dec 19, 2018)

dither said:


> I am amazed at how this thread has gone, and I thank you all for not kicking the table over. I


the cavalry have not arrived yet 

Joking aside, it is a welcome change to have a discussion where everyone can put forward their POV and even if we don't agree, we treat each other with respect.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

Arachne said:


> Wow, you don’t look how I expected at all. How do you get your fur so shiny?



I quit lettin' crazy people drive me to pull it out. :wink:

...now I drive them to pull theirs out instead. :icon_cheesygrin:




G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

PiP said:


> the cavalry have not arrived yet



We've got horses and you didn't tell me??? :shock:



G.D.


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## dither (Dec 19, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> <-- Mine too.
> 
> The larger version:
> View attachment 23076​
> ...



That caption needs an embarrassed BURP! at the end imo.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 19, 2018)

dither said:


> That caption needs an embarrassed BURP! at the end imo.



I started to add "Funny, but he tasted like cookies..."

But then I decided I liked the shorter version better, especially as an avatar.



G.D.


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## a.cengiz (Jan 19, 2019)

everything that hurt the feelings of a certain group is labelled as "sexist" these days. However in most of the cases it is merely a displacement.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 19, 2019)

Ruh roh... Here we go again.  :rofl: :hell_pawn:




G.D.


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## Gofa (Jan 19, 2019)

As a bloke with a wife and three now grown daughters the following things have become obvious

women dress to impress other women  not men
women notice other womens weight change new hairstyle new shoes cloths etc is 
and finally they rank themselves in a room as to nicer than etc 

i was a solo dad for a while  you listen and are amazed

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AQwwkI5_3-0

Tim Minchin sums up my appreciation and understanding if all things sexist


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## Guard Dog (Jan 19, 2019)

Monkeys in shoes... Yeah, that's about right.



G.D.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 30, 2019)

Gofa said:


> women dress to impress other women not men
> women notice other womens weight change new hairstyle new shoes cloths etc is
> and finally they rank themselves in a room as to nicer than etc



Gofa, this is so true! As a jeans-and-Tshirt gal myself, this is exactly why I'd rather work with men than other women most any day! (Sorry gals!)

Not having 50 million pairs of shoes, 70 thousand colors of lipstick, and new co-ordinants every day sure puts a damper on fitting in with the 'in' crowd. 

Much better to want to be a writer where I can dress as I like, avoid the latest dieting conversation, and skip out on the latest gossip. 


Funny. Come to think of it, all of my women friends would probably say something similar, so perhaps mine is a reaction against a stereotype.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 30, 2019)

Guard Dog said:


> Monkeys in shoes... Yeah, that's about right.
> 
> 
> G.D.



Something to consider, monkeys in shoes don't keep good paying office jobs without the shoes.


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## Kevin (Jan 30, 2019)

"Viscous, petty, vindictive, cliquish, bitches..." 
"That's pretty good, almost rhymes. Who?"
"Women."
"'Sexist'." 
"I am. And I am so glad I work out of home, now. I never have to see them again. Never have to deal..."

This was my wife venting/filling me in. Hair business 28 years. Some of them were nice, and some of them were witches. Her words. I couldn't say.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 30, 2019)

Megan Pearson said:


> Something to consider, monkeys in shoes don't keep good paying office jobs without the shoes.



That all depends on whether or not the monkey in question is at the top o' the 'tree'.

... then again, I've spent as much of my life outta shoes as I have in 'em, and certainly don't have much use for offices. So what'a I know?  ;-)




G.D.


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## Myk3y (Feb 2, 2019)

Reeba said:


> I wash my car because I like the way it looks when it's clean. Nothing at all to do with attention I assure you.
> 
> As a woman I am uncomfortable with the notion of women's appearances "selling" anything because it certainly is not true for me. I have been happily married for twenty years and I still wear make up and try to dress nice when I go to the grocery despite not caring at all whether others find me attractive or not.
> 
> ...



We got married in 1986 and I still think she is the best-looking woman in the room. And she always makes the effort. Not with makeup - she’s never used much, just a bit of lippy or painted toenails.

She dresses well, always something new, but she makes all her own clothes, and some of mine. She’s always sewing or knitting or crocheting or sketching, looking at or reading about fashion.

She would rather put pins in her eyes than go to the grocery - that’s man’s work.


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