# Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment



## sushil_yadav

*The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues. *

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature. 

*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment. *

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct. 
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel. 
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet. 
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist. 


Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking. 

If there are no gaps there is no emotion. 

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion. 


When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing. 

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps. 

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps. 

Emotion ends. 

Man becomes machine. 


A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety. 

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety. 

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety. 


*Fast visuals/ words make slow emotions extinct. 

Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys emotional circuits. 

A fast (large) society cannot feel pain / remorse / empathy. 

A fast (large) society will always be cruel to Animals/ Trees/ Air/ Water/ Land and to Itself. *


I am trying to get the following experiment conducted in a psychophysiology/ bio-chemistry laboratory. 

There is a link between visual / verbal speed ( in perception, memory, 
imagery ) and the bio-chemical state of the brain and the body. 

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual and verbal processing 
associated with the emotion slows down ( stops / freezes ). 

The degree of difficulty of an emotion depends upon the degree of 
freezing (of visuals and words ) required to intensify and sustain that 
particular emotion. 


Experiment: 

Subjects (preferably actors specialising in tragedy / tragic roles ) 
will be asked to watch a silent video film showing any of the 
following:- 

(1) Human suffering. 
(2) Animal suffering. 
(3) Suffering ( Destruction ) of Air / Water / Land / Trees. 

Subjects will be asked to intensify and sustain the subjective feeling of pain/ grief for the sufferer. 

The chemical changes associated with the emotion in the body(blood) would be measured by appropriate methods. 

The silent video film will be shown at different speeds : 
(1) 125% of actual speed. 
(2) Actual/real speed. 
(3) 75% of actual speed. 
(4) 50% of actual speed. 
(5) 25% of actual speed. 


Results : 

(1) Intensity of emotion increases with the decrease in visual speed. 
(2) Intensity of emotion is maximum when visual speed is minimum (25% 
of actual speed) 
(3) The amount of chemical change associated with the emotion in the 
body(blood) will be found to increase with the decrease in visual speed. 
(4) The chemical change is maximum when visual speed is minimum. 
(5) The amount of chemical change will increase with the decrease in 
breathing rate. Breathing becomes so slow and non-rhythmic that it stops 
for some time at the inhalation/ exhalation stages. 

The above co-relations will be valid for all subjects -even for those who cannot feel pain/ grief. Such subjects will experience emotion associated with boredom/ discomfort/ restlessness/ irritability/ uneasiness. The chemicals released will be different but the co-relation between visual speed and amount of chemical will be same( the breathing rates will be different/ fast). All subjects will experience some kind of emotion. 

[If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when weexperience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion, remorse etc… ] 

In the 2nd stage of experiment we shall replace the silent video film with a Narrator ( Audio only ) and repeat the procedure thereby establishing the link between intensity of emotion and verbal speed. The narrator will slow down verbal speed by-- speaking slowly, stretching words, repetition of words/ sentences & making use of 
pause/ silence between words. 

Please note: 
(1) A thinking mind cannot intensify / sustain any emotion. 
While this statement is generally true for all emotions, it is particularly true for all painful emotions. 

(2) Pain / remorse / empathy cannot be experienced in a society in which visual (verbal) speed and breathing- rates are fast . It is impossible. 


PROOF. 
Proof of the link between pain and slow visuals / words :- 

In the last century man has made thousands of movies / films on various 
themes / subjects. Whenever pain / tragedy is shown in any film the 
visuals ( scenes ) and words ( dialogues ) are always slowed down. In 
many films tragedy is shown in slow motion. At the most intense moment 
of pain the films almost become static / stationary. 

Tragedy-films provide direct proof / evidence of the link between pain 
and slowness. 

Pain can intensify / sustain only when visual ( and verbal ) speed slows 
down( stops/ freezes). 


*Change in visual speed over the years. *

One thousand years ago visuals would change only when man physically 
moved himself to a new place or when other people ( animals / birds ) 
and objects ( clouds / water ) physically moved themselves before him. 

Today man sits in front of TV / Computer and watches the rapidly 
changing visuals / audio. 

He sits in a vehicle ( car / train / bus ) and as it moves he watches 
the rapidly changing visuals. 

He turns the pages of a book / newspaper / magazine and sees many 
visuals / text in a short span. 


*Change in verbal speed over the years. *

In ancient times verbal processing was “live” in nature—ie it happened when people actually spoke. 
Today there is non-stop verbal processing inside the mind through print and electronic media ( newspapers, books, magazines, radio, television, computer etc…) as a result of which the verbal content & speed has increased thousands of times. 


The speed of visuals ( and words ) has increased so much during the last 
one hundred years that today the human brain has become incapable of 
focussing on slow visuals /words through perception, memory, imagery. 

If we cannot focus on slow visuals / words we cannot experience emotions associated with slow visuals /words. 



Before the advent of Industrial Revolution Man's thinking was primarily 
limited to : 

(a) visual processing ( slow visuals ) 
(b) verbal / language processing ( slow words ) 

Today there are many kinds of fast thinking : 

(1) visual processing ( fast visuals ) 
(2) verbal / language processing ( fast words ) 
(3) Scientific / Technical thinking ( fast ) 
(4) Industrial thinking ( fast ) 
(5) Business thinking ( fast ) 

(3), (4) & (5) are associated with Numbers / Symbols / Equations / 
Graphs /Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc… 

As long as the mind is doing this kind of thinking it cannot feel any 
emotion - not an iota of emotion. 

In a fast society slow emotions become extinct. 
In a thinking ( scientific / industrial ) society emotion itself becomes extinct. 

Emotion is what remains in the mind when visual/ verbal processing slows down (stops/ freezes) 


There are certain categories of people who feel more emotion (subjective experience ) than others. 

If we attempt to understand why (and how ) they feel more emotion we can learn a lot about emotion. 

Writers, poets, actors, painters ( and other artists ) 

*Writers *
Writers do verbal ( and associated visual) processing whole day- every day. 
They do slow verbal ( and associated visual) processing every day. 
(A novel that we read in 2 hours might have taken 2 years to write. This is also the reason why the reader can never feel the intensity & duration of emotion experienced by the writer ) 

*Poets *
Poets do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. There is more emotion in poetry than in prose. This happens because there are very few words ( and associated visuals ) in poetry than in any other kind of writing. There is a very high degree of freezing / slowing down of visuals & words in poetry. 

*Actors *
Actors do verbal ( and associated visual ) processing whole day- every day. During shooting / rehearsal they repeat the dialogues ( words ) again and again ( the associated visuals / scenes also get repeated along with the dialogues ) 

*Painters *
Painters do visual ( and associated verbal ) processing whole day- every day. They do extremely slow visual processing - The visual on the canvas changes only when the painter adds to what already exists on the canvas. 


There are some important points to be noted : 

All these people do visual & verbal processing - whole day - every day. 
They do slow visual & verbal processing. 
They do not do scientific / industrial / business processing whole day - every day. 

Most of the city people doing mental work either do this kind of mental processing which is associated with Numbers / Symbols/ Equations / Graphs / Circuits / Diagrams / Money / Accounting etc… or they do fast visual ( verbal ) processing whole day - every day. 

This kind of thinking ( processing ) has come into existence only during the last 200 years and has destroyed our emotional ability ( circuits ). 


Once we speed up our minds we become incapable of slowing down [it would take years of effort to slow down]. One can understand it this way - A supercomputer cannot process at the rate of an ordinary computer. Once we speed up [and we have been speeding up for several generations now] we cannot slow down because the neural circuits get altered - the bio-chemistry of the brain and its anatomy changes. 



*Self-Assessment of ( subjective ) intensity of emotion is almost always wrong. *

Suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of a particular emotion that 
can be experienced by any human being is 100 units. 

Let us suppose the maximum intensity(and duration) of that particular emotion ever 
experienced by two people A & B in their entire life is : 
A - 100units 
B - 20 units 

Now suppose A & B are made subjects on a particular day and are asked 
to feel that particular emotion under experimental conditions ( or 
outside the laboratory ) and the intensity &duration they actually experience is : 

A - 90 units 
B - 18 units 

If A & B are then asked to indicate the intensity &duration of emotion on a scale 
of 0 -10 their response is likely to be ; 

A - 9 
B - 9 

Who is right and who is wrong ? 
A is right. 
B is wrong - B is wrong by a wide margin - B has experienced an 
intensity(and duration) of 18 units out of a maximum of 100 units and his correct / actual score should be 1.8 

Self- assessment ( self rating ) can be accurate only if people have 
the capacity to experience the highest intensity &duration ( units ) of the 
particular emotion under study. 



In small(slow)agriculture-based societies the mind used to experience a state of emotion all the time because of physical work and slow visual/verbal processing . People who do physical work experience the same good subjective-feeling which is experienced by people who do physical excercise. [People who do physical work also sleep much better than people who do mental work - the quality of sleep is much better]. If we read one thousand-year-old literature we will not come across the term "boredom" - the concept of boredom did not exist in slow societies. There were long gaps between different visuals and between words/ sentences - and people had the ability to experience/ tolerate the gaps - it was normal for them. 

Emotion can intensify / sustain only when visual / verbal processing slows down ( stops / freezes ). In an Industrial (thinking) society people experience very little emotion because of fast ( visual / verbal / scientific / industrial / business ) thinking. 

Suppose the maximum intensity and duration of a particular emotion ( for most people ) in a fast society has reduced to 5 units ( from 100 units that people used to experience in earlier /slower societies ). 

If such people experience 4 units of emotion they will give themselves a 
rating /score of 8 on a scale of 0-10 whereas their actual score should 
be 0.4 


[Please note : 
Fast emotions =emotions associated with fast visuals/fast words/fast breathing/fast heart-rate. 
Slow emotions=emotions associated with slow visuals/slow words/slow breathing/slow heart-rate. 
Rate of thinking=number of visuals/words processed per minute. 
Gaps between thinking =gaps between visuals/ words/ sentences.] 


Thoughts and Emotions are interlinked - but different things - totally/ completly different. 

Words can be spoken - words can be read - words can be heard. 

Emotion is a subjective-experience. Other examples of subjective experience are taste, smell, touch, headache, stomach pain. 

One can understand the difference this way : 

When we eat an apple we can feel the taste of apple. Apple can give us the taste of apple - but apple is not taste. 

If we pour apple juice into a glass - the glass will not feel the taste - it does not have the ability to feel taste. 

If a person eats an apple he will feel the taste - because he has the ability to generate taste from apple. 

Words/ Visuals can evoke, intensify and sustain emotions - but words/ visuals are not emotions. 



In every field there is easy work/activity and difficult work/activity. 

In mathematics there is easy mathematics and difficult mathematics. Everyone can add 2+4 within microseconds. A PhD level problem of mathematics would take hours [or more] to solve - and that too only by someone who has spent 20 - 25 years learning mathematics upto PhD level. 

Same way in the field of emotions there are easy emotions and difficult emotions. Easy emotions are evoked within nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds - anger, lust, fear, pleasure, entertainment and excitement are some examples. These emotions are associated with fast breathing and heart-rate. These emotions don"t require gaps between thinking to evoke, intensify and sustain. These are the emotions that can be found everywhere in today's fast society.

Then there are difficult emotions - which require ability and years of effort to develop - emotions associated with pain, compassion and peaceful states of mind are some examples. These emotions are associated with slow breathing and heart-rate. These emotions require freezing of thought - freezing of visuals and words - huge amounts of gaps between thinking - to evoke, intensify and sustain. 


The experiments I have proposed are primarily meant for those people who understand only the language of science. We don't need experiments to understand that our present lifestyle is destroying our Minds and Environment - the evidence is everywhere - left, right and center. The craze and fetish for science and scientific proof has mainly existed for the last 50 - 100 years. People have lived on this planet for thousands of years without needing scientific proof to understand something. It is Science and Technology that created the consumerist Industrial Society which has led to the destruction of Mind and Nature/ Environment. Who needs more science or more scientific proof. *Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.*

Some people demand proof of everything. They won't accept anything without proof. How do people accept their father as their father? Where is the proof?
Scientific proof comes from DNA testing. How many people have got the DNA test conducted?

Two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism. Science and Technology is responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism. 

Humans are incapable of making solutions. Humans have always created problems. All solutions of Man have actually been problems in disguise - they have led to bigger and greater problems. The quest for a solution is the biggest problem in itself.


*IQ Vs EQ *

IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time. 
Change is an inherent feature of IQ. 
IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind. Someone who does more mathematics in less time is considered more intelligent in mathematics. IQ is about change and speed. 

EQ is about sustainment of the same feeling/experience over a period of time. When we experience any higher-level emotion for 10 minutes we experience the same feeling( subjective experience) over and over again for 10 minutes. 
The( same) feeling can sustain only if there is Repetition. 
EQ involves Repetition—Constancy—Sameness. 

IQ and EQ are contradictory. 
IQ and EQ are opposites. 
IQ and EQ are inversely proportional. 



(1) A thinking species destroys the planet. 
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers) 
without destroying nature. 
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was 
limited to searching for food for one time only. 
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand 
years / a few hundred years. 
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment. 
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking. 
(7) When man thinks he makes things. 
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land. 
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ). 

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet. 



*Intelligence Is A Curse. *

This planet is on the verge of total destruction. 

The cause of destruction is – overactivity. 
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity] 

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence. 
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals] 

Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world. 

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes] 



*Mental work is injurious to the mind and planet. *

Life was never good in the past. 

Life will never be good in future. 

Life can never be good. 


Suffering is a part of life - an inherent feature of life. Suffering can never be eliminated. 

There is Physical suffering - There is Mental suffering. 

In pre-industrial society there were physical diseases caused by virus and bacteria. 
In modern society there are hundreds of lifestyle related physical diseases - Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Obesity, Multiple Organ Failures. 


Mental suffering will always exist. It exists in agrarian society. It exists in industrial society. As soon as we stop working we experience mental suffering. 

We avoid mental suffering by working ceaselessly. 

There is no higher purpose behind work. 

People do not work because they want to work. 
People work because they cannot stop working. 

The energy generated by the food we eat forces us to work ceaselessly. 

Energy = Energy[Physical Work] + Energy[Mental Work] + Energy[Suffering/ Subjective Experience] 

All three energies on the right side are inversely proportional to one another. 

When we do hard physical work or hard mental work or a combination of physical work and mental work almost all energy is used up in doing work. 

When we stop physical work and mental work the unused energy is experienced as suffering/ anxiety/ restlessness/ discomfort. This suffering is so intense - so unbearable - that most people cannot stop physical activity and mental activity simultaneously for even 2 minutes - they can stop work/activity only under the influence of drugs and alcohol. 

People do not work because they want to work. 
People do not work for their family. 
People do not work for their nation. 
People do not work for any reason. 

People work because they cannot stop working. 

It does not matter what kind of work we do - whether it is physical work or any kind of mental work. As soon as we stop working we suffer from restlessness, anxiety, uneasiness and discomfort. 

[ In Yoga and Meditation the goal is to stop Physical Activity and Mental Activity simultaneously - and then transform the subjective-experience of restlessness/ anxiety/ suffering into peace. This requires ability and years of effort ] 

For most people the choice is between physical and mental work. 
The switch-over from physical work to mental work is disastrous for the planet. 

Man can do the same physical work every day. 
Man cannot do the same mental work every day. 

When man used to do physical work ( farming and related activities ) he could do the same repetitive work day after day- generation after generation. 

After the Industrial Revolution when man switched-over to mental work he began a never ending process of making new machines / things / products-- a process which can only end with the complete destruction of environment ( planet ). 

When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is *"Capitalist Industrial Society"* - *"Communist Industrial Society"* - or *"Socialist Industrial Society".*

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

Industry/ Factories burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems. 

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land. 

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way. 


Today 50% of world population - 3 bilion people are living in cities. The necessary work of growing/producing Food is being done outside cities - in villages and countryside. Most of the people living in cities are engaged in unnecessary work - making things, buying things and selling things. The switch-over from Physical work to Mental work/ Desk job has led to an endless cycle of unnecessary and destructive work. 

When society switches over from physical work to mental work it starts making thousands of consumer goods. People start calling them necessities. They are not necessities at all - 90% of consumer goods that we see today did not exist 50 years ago. 

Food, Water, Air, Little clothing, Little Shelter - these are necessities. 

Close your nose and stop breathing for a few minutes - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop drinking water for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Stop eating food for a few days - you will then know what necessity is.

Today people are making thousands of consumer goods - not because they are necessities - but because they cannot stop making them. People cannot stop doing work - After switching over to mental work they will keep on making thousands of unnecessary consumer goods. Industrial Society is destroying necessary things*[Animals,Trees,Air,Water and Land]* for makng unnecessary things*[Consumer Goods]*. This is the reason why the switch-over from physical work to mental work is so destructive. This is the point of no-return - once this is crossed the destruction of Environment/ Nature is inevitable. 

*If we live a simple life there is individual suffering - but no largescale destruction of Environment.

If we live a consumerist life there is individual suffering - plus largescale destruction of Environment.*


sushil_yadav


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## sushil_yadav

*article continued.*


The nature of mental work is such that man has to do new mental work every day- in fact he has to do new mental work every moment- Man cannot repeat in the next moment the mental work that he has already done in the previous moment. 

A mathematician cannot solve the same problem of mathematics every day- once he has solved it he will be forced to take up a new( unsolved) problem. Even when he is solving one particular problem he has to move from one step to another - there is a continuous change involved -- there is no constancy at any stage. 

An engineer cannot design the same machine again and again –once he has made a machine he will try to make changes/ design a new one. 

A writer cannot write the same article every day- he will be forced to write something new every day/ every moment (This is also the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments). 


*Discussions, Debates and Arguments. *

Let us examine how much discussion we are collectively having in Industrial Society every day. 

Millions of pages in print – newspapers / books / magazines. 
Millions of web-pages on internet every day. 

Now add to this all the conversation (discussion) we are having through radio / television / telephone and several other media every day. 

And add to this all the discussion we are having through face-to-face interaction. 

The volume of discussion per individual in one week is greater than the total discussion someone living in pre-industrial society would have in his entire life. 

There is too much discussion in modern society. 
Discussion is not solving our problems – discussion itself has become a problem – a gigantic problem. 


A society that does mental work will discuss itself to destruction [extinction] 

A society that does mental work will argue itself to destruction [extinction] 

A society that does mental work will debate itself to destruction [extinction] 


A society that does mental work can never stop discussions / debates / arguments – it is impossible. It will discuss / debate / argue till the last moment of it’s existence. 

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are creations of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work. 

Discussions / Debates / Arguments – these are diseases of a society that has switched-over from physical work to mental work. 


Discussions / debates / arguments can end only in agriculture-based societies that do physical work. 

We cannot do physical-work and mental-work simultaneously. 

There is an inverse relationship between physical-work and mental-work. 
If one is high [more] the other has got to be low [less] 

If we want to do physical work we have to reduce mental activity by the same proportion. 
If we want to do mental work we have to reduce physical activity by the same proportion. 

There is very little discussion / debate / argument in societies that do physical work - ie, agriculture-based societies - And this is the reason why they are millions of times saner than industrial societies. 




Change is an inherent feature of mental work. 

Since change is an inherent feature of mental work - a society that does mental work can never be at peace with itself – it is impossible. 

A society that does mental work will always be restless. 

Only those societies that do physical work [agriculture and related activities] can find contentment and peace. 



*As long as cities exist we can neither save the environment nor the mind.* 

To save the [ remaining ] environment from destruction man will have to 
return back to physical work [ smaller communities ]. 

To save the mind from mental diseases man will have to return back to physical work [ smaller communities ]. 



*Criminality and Abnormality. *

Industrial Society has collectively killed billions of Animals and Trees [ Remember - plant and animal species developed over a period of millions ofyears] 

It has also killed most of Water and Air [ Please note - polluting Water and Air is equivalent to killing Water and Air ] 

The soil was not fertile when the earth was created. It became fertile - very slowly - over a period of millions of years. And look what man has done - He has covered millions and millions of hectares of land with cement and concrete. All the land that has been covered with cement and concrete has been killed. 

Man has stockpiled thousands of tonnes of highly radioactive nuclear material and nuclear waste which is going to remain highly radioactive and carcinogenic for the next thousands of years - and which has already leaked into the environment hundreds of times. 

There is an arsenal of 50,000 nuclear missiles that can destroy the planet several times over. 

What could be more criminal than this. 
What could be more abnormal than this. 

Lawyers and Judges are trying to catch a few criminals. 
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal. 

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal. 
They don’t realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal. 


The claim of "science and technology" of curing cancer is a joke. "Science and Technology" can never cure cancer - it is impossible. "Science and Technology" is the cause of cancer. Most of cancer is caused by *toxic chemicals - carcinogens.* Industrial Society has flooded the ecosystems with toxic chemicals.  Most of the Farm Land has been poisoned with pesticides due to Industrial Agriculture. The Land - The Air - The Water - the entire food chain is contaminated with thousands of man-made toxic chemicals which did not exist before industrialiation. There are hundreds of man-made, toxic chemicals in the blood, bones and tissue of humans. There are toxic, man-made chemicals in the placenta of new born babies. Industrial Society is causing millions of cancer every year. Out of these millions of cases, "science and technology" is able to treat a small percentage - a few thousand cases - through surgery, radiation and chemotherapy etc...And these treatments can hardly be called real treatments because the toxic chemicals which are the root cause of cancer still exist in the environment. This is also the reason why there is a high rate of relapse/ recurrence after cancer treatment. An Industrial Society can never prevent high incidence of cancer, because it is flooding the environment with chemicals all the time.


Industrial Society is collectively making millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives [of all kinds] every year – and then it wonders why there is so much violence in this world. 

Big Mystery. 

If you make millions of tonnes of weapons and explosives on earth they are going to be used on earth – they are not going to be used on Mars. 


The entire Industrial Society is a terrorist.
The Military-Industrial-Complex is the real terrorist.
Science and Technology is the terrorist.



Make things 
Buy things 
Sell things 

This is not the purpose of life. 

Destroy Shopping Culture. 

No one deserves more. 
Everyone deserves less. 
Life can sustain on earth only when everyone has less. 




There was a time when Man knew nothing about the number of species and millions of species existed. 
Today Man knows the names of millions of species and nothing is left of the species. 



It took millions of years for millions of species to slowly come into existence on earth - and man has decimated all other species. 

After destroying millions of highly-developed species on earth Man is today searching for a few molecules of life in outer-space. 

If a few microbes, a few molecules of methane / water are found on Mars - it becomes the newspaper headline. 

They call it progress. 



The following is about to come true. 

Nature can exist 

(1) before man. 
(2) after man. 
(3) not with man. 



Destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. In pre-Industrial Society people destroyed environment primarily for *food.* In Industrial Society people are destroying environment for *food and consumer goods.* If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all unnecessary consumer goods. 

Environment can be saved only if we stop production of most [ more than 99% ] of the consumer goods we are making today. 

*Environment cannot be saved by recycling. 

The attempt of an industrial society to save the environment by recycling is like shooting someone 10,000 times and then trying to save him by taking out one bullet.  *


Time is running out for this planet. 



Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero. 

Humans have spent more than 99% of their time on earth in *non-industrial societies.*

Non-industrial societies have sustained on earth for thousands of years.
Industrial society has destroyed all ecosystems within 200 - 250 years.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy. 

Industrial Society is consuming psychiatric drugs/ sleeping pills by tonnes and tonnes.

A very large percentage of the population is surviving on precription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

One-third of the population has become fat like elephants.

People talk about increase in lifespan. What is the use of increased lifespan if people have to resort to Drugs, Alcohol and Cigarettes to pull through life. And just wait a few more years - the average lifespan will soon become zero - human life will cease to exist on earth.

Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth. We would need several planets[earths] to sustain the present lifestyle.


The *Military-Industrial Complex* is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth. There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago.

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And today one does'nt even need all these to fight a war. One just needs to move finger-tips to launch missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year. 

And it is going to get worse and worse every day.

If you kill one person they call it murder.
If you kill a few hundred they call it terrorism.
If you kill a few million they call it war.

Science and Technology has made this world [millions of times] more violent and unsafe than before.

Science and Technology has produced billions of tonnes of weapons and explosives - chemical, biological and nuclear weapons - millions of tonnes of Radioactive material [ which will soon be used to make dirty radioactive bombs - which are going to contaminate the environment for hundreds and thousands of years]. *Science and Technology is the real terrorist.* 


Governments and Law Enforcement Agencies have labelled a few Environmentalists as EcoTerrorists.

What are the charges against Environmental Activists? - Destruction of property? - endangering human life?

The Military Industrial Complex is doing much more damage to property - it is going around carpet bombing entire countries - flattening entire countries. The Military Industrial Complex is endangering much more human life - it is actually killing - killing millions in War/ Violence - directly or indirectly.

Who is the real Terrorist? - *Environmentalists* or *Industrial Society?*

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. *Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.*

Every citizen of *Industrial Society *is using hundreds/ thousands of consumer goods.

Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - *directly or indirectly.* [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded]

The per capita killing of animals, trees, air, water and land in Industrial Society is hundreds of times/ thousands of times greater than that of pre-industrial society.  

*Every citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer - serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.*

*Those who produce consumer goods are killers.
Those who sell consumer goods are killers.
Those who buy consumer goods are killers.*


Before Industrialization humans killed Environment primarily for *Food, Clothing & Shelter.* After industrialization humans are killing environment for* Food, Clothing & Shelter* plus *[thousands of unnecessary]Consumer Goods.*

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things*[Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land]* for making unnecessary things*[Consumer Goods].*

The *Military Industrial Complex* has killed millions of people in War/ Violence. It has decimated all plant and animal species. It has destroyed all ecosystems. It has polluted and poisioned the Sky, Land and Oceans. It has raped and plundered "Mother Earth" in the name of Progress and Development.

The crimes of *"Military Industrial Complex"*are millions of times greater than the crimes of *Environmentalists.*

Comparing the crimes of *Environmentalists* with the crimes of *"Military Industrial Complex"* is like comparing the *Lamp* with the *Sun.*

*The entire Industrial Society is a Terrorist.
Science and Technology is the Terrorist.
Military Industrial Complex is the Terrorist.
Culture of Consumerism - culture of making, buying and selling is the Terrorist. Consumerism kills ecosystems - Consumerism is the biggest act of violence against nature. *



*Think Positive. *

Psychologists say -- Think Positive. 
Politicians say – Think Positive. 
Economists say – Think Positive. 
Scientists say – Think Positive. 
Everyone says – Think Positive. 

Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up. 
Think Positive. 

Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago. 
Think Positive. 

Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep. 
Think Positive. 

There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds. 
Think Positive. 

Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable. 
Think Positive. 

Metal everywhere - Concrete everywhere - Plastic everywhere.
Think Positive.

All local cultures have been destroyed in the name of consumerism and globalization. 
Think Positive.

Thinking positive is the height of insanity. 
Thinking positive is the height of abnormality. 

This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt. 
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive. 


Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive. 

They will be holding Seminars, Conferences and Global-Summits to save the Environment. 




There is an important point which the human-species needs to understand. People think they can save the Environment by doing something. 

We can never save the environment by doing something. 

It is overactivity that has destroyed environment in the first place. 

Human-species is the only one out of millions of species that has indulged in overactivity on this planet [ And for this very reason the human speciesis going to exist on earth for the least amount of time] 

And it is not Mild Overactivity – It is Excessive Overactivity – Exponential Overactivity. 

We cannot save the environment by doing something. 

We can only save it by doing less of what we have been doing - much less of what we have been doing. 

If we want to save environment we will have to reduce human activity [overactivity] by 99%. 



A person is being stabbed repeatedly at regular intervals  -  every hour. 

Some people are trying to save the victim.

The sane way to save is  - you first stop the attack – you prevent the attack.

What these insane people do -  they allow the attack to be continued.  They don’t stop it  -- they don’t prevent it.

Instead, what they do  - They say we are going to save the victim by using technology  -  the best technology  -  the best medical care.

*Bring this technology  -  Bring that technology.

Bring this technology  -  Bring that technology.*

They give the victim the best technology  - the best medical care. 
In the meantime the stabbing continues – every hour – even while the best medical care is being given.

One can imagine the fate of the victim.


Ecosystems are getting destroyed due to production of consumer goods.

Every consumer good is made by killing animals, trees, air, water and land - *directly or indirectly.* [ more killing of nature takes place when consumer goods are used and discarded] 

Industrial society is destroying necessary things *- animals, trees, air, water and land* for making unnecessary things *- consumer goods. *

The sane way of saving  ecosystems is  - you stop production of consumer goods  - you reduce  production of consumer goods to the minimum level.

But the insane Industrial Society continues producing consumer goods [ in fact production is being increased every day]

The insane response of  Industrial Society is  - We will save the environment with technology  -  the best technology.

*Bring this technology  -  Bring that technology.

Bring this technology  -  Bring that technology.*

In the meantime production of consumer goods continues  -  3 billion people living in cities are continuously engaged in  -  making , buying and selling of  consumer goods  -  killing the ecosystems moment by moment. 

One can imagine the fate of  environment.

*Height of Insanity.......Height of Abnormality.*

*Destroy consumerism..... before it is too late.*
*Destroy Industrial Society.....before it is too late.* 



*The Illogical Logic of Man. *

A few birds have got infected with bird-flu and Man has started killing millions of birds. 
They say birds are a threat to humans. 

Sometime ago there was Mad Cow disease and Man started killing hundreds of thousands of cows. 
They said cows are a threat to humans. 


Ever since Man came into existence - millions of humans with infectious diseases have transferred such diseases to millions of other people - and will continue to infect millions more in future. 
Such people are a threat to rest of the people. 
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all infected people. 

It is Man who has killed millions of people in Wars and other forms of Violence – and can kill millions more any time in future. 
Man should follow the same logic here and kill all people. 


It is the human species which is the greatest threat to humans and all other life on this planet - In fact the human species is the only species which is a threat to all life on Earth. 

Man has decimated all Animal and Plant species – polluted the Sky and Oceans - and poisioned every square inch of earth. 

In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years. 


Humans pose the greatest threat to other humans. 
Humans pose the greatest threat to all other life on earth. 

The so-called Rational and Civilized Man should follow the same logic here - and destroy the entire human race. 

Please note : 

If you indulge in Factory Farming – If you torture the birds – confine millions of them in prison like conditions – depriving them of Sunlight and the freedom to walk and fly – you are creating an environment for the spread of virus and disease. 



*Lifestyle of Mass Destruction. *

Destruction is an inherent feature of Development. 

Progress = Destruction of Nature. 
Development = Destruction of Nature. 

We can have Sustainable Lifestyle. 
We cannot have Sustainable Development. 

Development can never be sustainable. 
Sustainability and Development cannot exist together. 

Development and Sustainability are opposites. 
Development and Sustainability are contradictory. 

Sustainable Living is associated with consuming less – being satisfied with a simple and frugal life. 
Development is associated with never ending desires – always wanting more. 

Sustainable lifestyle requires Constancy. 
Sustainable lifestyle requires Sameness. 
Sustainable lifestyle requires Repetition. 

Development is associated with Change. 
Development is associated with New. 
Development is associated with Transience. 

Industrial Societies can never be sustainable – When you make thousands of consumer goods you kill Nature - you kill Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land. 

*"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".*

A Society that does mental work [city based] can never be sustainable - it will keep on making consumer goods - destroying the environment moment by moment. 

Only agriculture-based societies that do physical work can be sustainable. 

The term Sustainable Development is like the terms 

Stationary Walk. 
Silent Talk. 
Wakeful Sleep. 
Dark Sun 
Gentle Torture. 
Dry Rain. 
Peaceful War. 

*Infinite growth and development on a tiny planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference? - Industrial Society is insane.* 



Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore. 

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest. 

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it. 

No Multi National Company can manufacture the Amazon Rainforests. 
No MNC can manufacture Rivers and Oceans. 
No MNC can manufacture Mountains and Deserts. 
No MNC can manufacture milions of species and fertile soil. 
No MNC can manufacture the Sun. 

The glaciers have melted. Arctic Ice has melted. Man can use all his Technology - all the Refrigeration and AirConditioning Technology but he will not be able to recreate the glaciers and Arctic Ice. 

Many species of wild animals used to have hundreds of thousands/ millions of members. Now it is down to a few hundred/ a few thousand. Which MNC is going to restore the animal population to its original level? 

The Oceans have almost been emptied of all large Fish. Which MNC is going to bring the Fish back in the Ocean? 

Man has hunted down several species to extinction after Industrial Revolution. Which MNC is going to make them reappear? 



There was a time when Man used to say – 

I work in order to feed my family. 
I work in order to put Food on the Table. 

Today man is putting a lot more than Food on the Table. 

Cars, Computers, ipods, Aeroplanes, 200 TV Channels, Luxury Yatchs, Caribbean Vacations, Palatial Homes, Video Phones, Designer Clothes, Designer Drugs, Cosmetic Surgery …………… The list is endless. 


Man is putting thousands of consumer goods and services on the Table. 
There is too much weight on the Table. 
*And the Table has begun to creak. *


The more you put on your table the more you take out from the mouths of Animals and Birds. 

The more you put on your table the more you kill Animals and Trees. 

The more you put on your table the more you kill Water, Air and Land. 

The more you put on your table the more you kill Mountains and Valleys. 

The more you put on your table the more you kill the Sky and Oceans - the Rivers and Lakes. 


There are so many things on the Table that one can barely see the Food. 

We need just a few things to live. 
And we are making thousands of things. 

Billions of people are engaged in making, buying and selling of thousands of consumer goods. 

Destroy Shopping Culture. 

Go back to Simple Living. 
Go back to putting just Food on the Table. 


sushil_yadav


----------



## Uriah

That, my friend, is quite brilliant. It also falls directly into line with the philosophical ideas of Integralists like Ken WIlbur, or Post-Modern Metaphysics like Deepak Chopra. The Mind/Body connection is inescapable, and primate to the human condition. 

Thank you for the great read.

Peace,
Uriah


----------



## Mallignamius

Wow. I didn't see any correlation between this and Chopra. Care to enlighten me?


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## Uriah

Because Sushil's dissertation speaks to the metaphysical dissociation we humans are presently afflicted with. There is a wide schism between science and soul, we have created a culture of materialist excess, blind to spirit and to the connection we share with the earth. 
This dissociation is a central theme to many of the philosophical ideas of Deepak Chopra and all of the Post-Modernist movement, of which he is loosely connected.  

In fact he recently said,
_“…only a change of consciousness can bring about radical change on the outside. Each person must realize that human beings don't own the planet. Life does, on every level. We owe our existence to plankton, blue-green algae, and one-celled organisms at the base of the food chain, not to mention our evolutionary debt to primitive life forms going back billions of years.”_
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/who-owns-the-planet_b_40439.html


----------



## Mustafa

> Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.


 
  First I think you may be referring more to the coming of the Information Society than the Industrial Revolution.  The Industrial Revolution did create urbanization, but the speed aspect that you are emphasizing is much more at home with the dawn of the information age. 




> *IQ Vs EQ *
> IQ always has an element of change in it – IQ is about trying to make/ discover/ invent something new all the time.


  Personally I would disagree with this definition of IQ.  There have been may inventions from individuals with normal IQ’s and very poor output from people with numerically high IQ’s.  



> Change is an inherent feature of IQ.


  Why? Why do you draw this conclusion?



> IQ is also about thinking more in less time—it involves speeding up of mind.


  I think you are using quantity where IQ really would be a move to better quality.



> A mathematician cannot solve the same problem of mathematics every day- once he has solved it he will be forced to take up a new( unsolved) problem. Even when he is solving one particular problem he has to move from one step to another - there is a continuous change involved -- there is no constancy at any stage.


 
  A farmer can not harvest the same crop every year.  He may plant the same crop next year, but a thousand variables will force different actions from season to season.  It is in this that mathematics is similar.  Like the farmer he uses the same processes from problem to problem (season to season).  Each process the farmer and the mathematician is striving to perfect the process and achieve the optimum results of their efforts. 



> This is also the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments


 
  I think the reason behind endless discussions/ debates/ arguments is not an every increasing activity of thought, but the result of one side or person feeling that they have reached the end and have drawn a conclusion.  If not over time you would see a more convergence into a fundamentally similar idea over time.



> There is an inverse relationship between physical-work and mental-work.


 
  Have you met any real farmers?  There is a tremendous amount of  mental work.



> There is very little discussion / debate / argument in societies that do physical work - ie, agriculture-based societies - And this is the reason why they are millions of times saner than industrial societies.


 
  [FONT=&quot]Just take a look at colonial America for an agricultural society that was pretty well filled with discussion and debate.

[/FONT]  


> In a mere 200 - 300 years Industrial Society has destroyed all that Nature laboriously created over a period of millions of years.


  You are anthropomorphizing nature.  Your logic here fails because it is based on a number of fallacies. 



> Sustainable Living is associated with consuming less – being satisfied with a simple and frugal life.


 

  Life feeds on life.  That has always been the rule and it always will be.  Some animals eat plants and other animals eat those animals and so on.  Evolution is the ever increasing of adaptability for the betterment of a species.  We can not stop this any more than we can all agree on what Sustainable Living is.

[FONT=&quot] 


 [/FONT]


----------



## sushil_yadav

Uriah said:


> That, my friend, is quite brilliant. It also falls directly into line with the philosophical ideas of Integralists like Ken WIlbur, or Post-Modern Metaphysics like Deepak Chopra. The Mind/Body connection is inescapable, and primate to the human condition.
> 
> Thank you for the great read.
> 
> Peace,
> Uriah



*Uriah,*

Thanks for reading the article and for expressing your views. I have made some additions to my article and would like to request members of "Writing Forums" to kindly read...............thank you.

................


Industrial Society is speeding up the demise of ecosystems by providing jobs to all - education to all.

After Industrial Revolution work turned into extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Most of the people living in cities are engaged in the destructive cycle of
production of consumer goods, selling of consumer goods, buying of
consumer goods.This planet is very small - just 40,000 km in
circumference. Today 50% of world population is living in cities - and
this percentage is increasing day by day.

Provide jobs to all?
Provide education to all? - oh yes, provide jobs/education to all and
very soon the human species will go out of existence.

The entire education system is promoting consumerism, extra work, over work, unnecessary work, destructive work.

People who are getting education in technology/ engineering.... are engaged in production of consumer goods.

People who are getting education in the fields of business, finance, MBA....are engaged in selling of consumer goods.

Most of the people getting education in Arts subjects are also engaged in
selling of consumer goods and services - sales and marketing jobs.

If we destroy ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will last longer. If we destroy ecosystems for consumer goods in addition to food, clothing, shelter, health-care the ecosystems will finish much sooner.

Industrial Society has destroyed necessary things [animals, trees, air, water,land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

By providing jobs to all - education to all, Industrial Society is destroying the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years.

Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.



What would happen to your home if 1000 people entered and started doing work continuously - 24 X 7 - picking up things already lying in the house, breaking them up and making new things out of them without stopping?

A similar thing is happening to the planet - 6.8 billion people
continuously engaging in work - destroying the ecosystems moment by
moment.

Man started destroying "extra" after Industrial Revolution. This "extra"
destruction has risen exponentially in the last 50 years.

Work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work. People who are working to provide food, clothing, shelter and healthcare are doing work - rest of the population is engaged in overwork, unnecessary work, destructive work.

Ecosystems are not consumer goods that can be manufactured / created by MultiNational Corporations. Who can undo the damage that has been done to ecosystems by billions of people over a period of 200 - 250 years?



Industrial Society has killed billions of acres of fertile soil by covering it with cement and concrete.This is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.We
have got a very small planet. On this small planet two-thirds of
surface area is water. Only one-third is land - and this includes vast
areas of land that are not fertile - deserts, rocky
mountains, ice/ glaciers. There is very little surface area on
earth which is fertile. It is this fertile soil that has produced food
for millions of species that have lived on land for millions of years. Killing billions of acres of fertile soil is insanity of the highest degree - insanity raised to the power of infinity.The punishment is coming - very soon - punishment of the highest degree - punishment raised to the power of infinity.



"Green Industry", "Green Technology", "Green Development".

These are contradictory terms – these are oxymorons.
Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.

Industry produces three kinds of waste - solid, liquid and gaseous.

There are only three places on earth where this waste can go - air, water, land.

There is no fourth place on earth where Industrial waste can go.

Industrial Society has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, chemical waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste.........

This waste has killed, polluted and poisoned rivers, lakes, oceans, underground water, the soil/ land, the air/ sky.

Industrialization can never be green – it is impossible.



We have created a society that rapes, plunders and exploits "Mother Earth" 365 days of the year - and then celebrates Earth Day.

When someone destroys the home of a human being it is considered a crime and the accused is sent to prison.

When the human species collectively destroys the homes [ecosystems] of millions of other species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.

The police, the law, the judiciary are trying to catch a few criminals - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is criminal.

Psychologists and Psychiatrists are trying to classify a few people as abnormal - they do not realize the entire Industrial Society is abnormal.



What is most amazing about the issue of sustainability is the fact that modern society is trying to sustain the unsustainable - it is trying to sustain a consumerist system which has existed for almost zero percent of human existence on earth. The present consumerist lifestyle has existed for about 100 years. If we com...pare this with the total duration of human existence on earth it comes to almost zero percent.

The two things that have destroyed Environment are - Overpopulation and Overconsumerism.

Science, Technology and Industrialization are responsible for both these problems. World population was less than 1 billion in the year 1800. Nature had its way of controlling population through disease and death caused by bacteria and virus. When man made medicines/ antibiotics he created disaster - population increased very rapidly. In the absence of "Industrial Agriculture" the feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control. If Industrial Revolution had not happened, environmental destruction due to production of consumer goods would not exist. In the absence of Science, Technology and "Industrial Revolution" we would not be facing the two problems that have caused destruction of ecosystems - overpopulation and overconsumerism.

If "Industrial Revolution" had not happened what would be the scenario today?

The feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control.

Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.

Maybe I would'nt be existing today - and billions of others may not have existed - but millions/ billions of humans would exist [just like they existed before Industrialization]

Most ecosystems would be hundreds of times/ thousands of times in better shape than today.

Millions of other species that have been decimated by Industrial Society would be existing in very healthy numbers - their population levels thousands of times greater than what they are now.

Providing food, clothing, shelter and healthcare is good. But did "Industrial Society" stop at that?

Do we have an Industrial Society that only provides food, clothing, shelter and healthcare to people?

No - the jokers tried to sell hundreds of consumer goods to all citizens of Industrial Society. They tried to make all people consumerists.

Industrial Society started destroying ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to destroying them for food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot do this on a small planet that is just 40,000 km in circumference. If you live this way you end up destroying all ecosystems - you end up decimating all other species - you end up destroying animals, trees, air, water and land - the very things that created and sustained all life on earth.



The earth is sick.

Ecosystems are dying.

Animals, trees, air, water and land are dying.

People say - why bother, it was meant to happen this way, nature will take care of itself.

When people fall sick - they rush to the doctor to save themselves.

When people fall sick - they rush to the hospital to save themselves.

Insane, abnormal, selfish, criminal human species.



Almost every country has been claiming its green cover is increasing.

How can this ever be true?

A fully grown tree is cut down in seconds/ minutes.

It takes 20 years for a tree to grow fully.

The rate of destruction of fully grown trees is hundreds of thousands
of times greater than the rate of replacement of fully grown trees.

And only a small percentage of trees that are planted survive to grow into healthy adult trees.

And even if you manage to replace trees how are you going to replace
the population of millions of species of animals, birds and insects
that lived in the forest and died when the forest was cut down.

Secondly where are you planting new trees? You can plant new trees on forest land only if forest land remains forest land.

But this is not the case.

We have got a very small planet whose circumference is just 40,000 km.
On this small planet two-thirds of surface area is water. Included in
the remaining land area are deserts, rocky mountains and glaciers which
do not support vegetation.

If the soil is fertile and gets rain it will grow forests, trees,
plants, vegetation by itself. This is how nature grew all the forests
in this world.

Before the arrival of man all the land that could grow forests had forests on it.

Then the genius human species arrived on the scene.

First he cut down forests for fire, then he cut down forests for
agriculture and villages. After Industrial Revolution forests were cut
down for towns and cities, for setting up industries/ factories, for
mining and extraction of raw material/minerals, for railways, for road
network.

So once the forest is cut down the land is taken up for agriculture,
for cattle grazing, for industry, for towns and cities, for rail and
road network.

So where are the new trees being planted? Where are they growing up?

How can green cover ever increase?

Lies, lies, lies .........blatant lies.

The rate of destruction of forests has risen exponentially after Industrial Revolution.

One can know the truth by looking at the satellite pictures of forests - before and after. One can compare the pictures taken 30 years ago with those taken this year.



Why did God create the insane human species that is ready to do
everything for the wrong cause and nothing for the right cause – a
species which is willing to do everything to destroy the ecosystems and
nothing to save the ecosystems.

Man is ready to kill and get killed for religion, for country, for honour, for power, for money and fame - But not for environment.

Millions have been killed over trivial issues and causes.
Millions have died for trivial issues and causes.

How many people have died for environment? How many people have died for
the most important / precious things on earth – animals, trees, air,
water and land – the very things that created and sustained all life on
earth.

Most of the ecosystems are already gone. The
little that remains is dying moment by moment. The situation is
extremely critical but the human response is limited to the same old
insanity – bring this technology, bring that technology - bring this technology, bring that technology.

Environmentalism has failed.
Environmentalism never existed.
It was Pseudo-Environmentalism all the way.


When 3000 people died in World Trade Center collapse the west was outraged - Killers, Murderers, Terrorists - they cried out. America vowed to smoke out the culprits - attacked Afghanistan, flattened the country and killed hundreds of thousands of people [directly or indirectly].

When American company "Union Carbide"... killed 20,000 people in Bhopal, India the same desire for justice was not shown by the west.

Why? - Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

There are hundreds of insecticides/ pesticides that are banned in western countries but the west is selling millions of tonnes of these chemicals in asia - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].

Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

The west is shipping millions of tonnes of toxic , hazardous waste to asian countries for recycling - leading to millions of deaths [directly or indirectly].

Is this not killing, murder, terrorism?

The Military Industrial Complex has killed millions of people in wars. No terrorist organization has killed that many people.

Industry kills - Industry kills humans, Industry kills animals, Industry kills trees, Industry kills air, Industry kills water, Industry kills land.

Industry is the killer - Industry is the murderer - Industry is the
terrorist.



Destruction of ecosystems will soon lead to collapse of Industrial Society.

Humans have decimated millions of other species - very soon it will be the turn of Humans to get decimated.

But even decimation of humans will not save ecosystems - only a total wipe-out of humans will save ecosystems.

If a few million humans survive they will again try to build another Industrial Society because they have seen such a society.

Only human extinction will work.

When the human species appears again there must be no memory of Industrialization and consumerism left in the human brain.

It would be best if the human species never ever appears on the planet again.


This planet can only sustain societies that produce their own food.

This planet cannot sustain societies that do not produce their own food.

Everyone in this world is eating food.

But everyone in this world is not producing food.

Today 50% of world population is living in cities. This population is not producing food. A society that does not produce its own food creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied. People would go crazy if this unnecessary work is not created. A city-based/ non-farming society is mostly engaged in production and selling of consumer goods and services. Work turns into over-work, extra work, destructive work.

When society produces its own food it destroys ecosystems for food, clothing, shelter.

When society does not produce its own food it destroys ecosystems for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing, shelter.

Cities existed before Industrial Revolution but their destructive impact was very little because they were not producing consumer goods that are being made today.

We can never save environment if we are destroying extra - We can never save environment if we destroy it for "consumer goods" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

It is impossible to save environment as long as cities exist.

It is impossible to save environment if we have societies that do not produce their own food.



Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only due to modern technology/ machines.

In the absence of modern technology/ machines it would be impossible for man to destroy all ecosystems.

If modern technology/ machines had not come into existence man would
have probably destroyed some ecosystems on land [forests] - and that
too at a much slower rate than that of the present Industrial Society.

It would have been impossible for man to destroy ecosystems in the sea/ oceans.

It would have been impossible for man to carry out largescale mining
activity and destroy ecosystems on the surface and deep inside the
earth.

It would have been impossible for man to poison the earth with thousands of toxic chemicals.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
solid, liquid and gaseous waste that has poisoned the air, water and
land - the entire planet.

It would have been impossible for man to generate billions of tonnes of
metal waste, plastic waste, eWaste, nuclear waste...... that has
poisoned the entire planet.

The Machine has killed all ecosystems.

It is impossible to save the remaining ecosystems as long as the machine exists.

The Machine will devour everything that remains on earth.

Machine is the killer.

Kill the machine.



The shameless, insane, abnormal and criminal human species
gets alarmed only when other species are about to go extinct – not before. And
even this late concern is fake - how could it ever be real.

The crime happens much before extinction of species. The tragedy happens much
before extinction of species.

This planet was made for millions of species - not for man alone.

The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier than extinction when man decimated all
other species.

The crime/ tragedy happened much earlier when the population of each species
dropped from millions to thousands and hundreds.

How would humans feel if the roles were reversed and the following happened.

All the animals of the world join hands to decimate the human species.

Humans are outraged , they cry out - killers, murderers, criminals, terrorists.

The animals say - "what are you complaining about?".

We are so compassionate - we did'nt kill all of you.

You should be grateful that we did'nt make you extinct.

There are 10 of you still alive on every continent.



Jobs or Environment?

Economy or Environment?

These are the questions that are being asked today.

This is insanity raised to the power of infinity.

Do we need to discuss, debate and argue for 100 years to know the answer?

Do we need to do research for 100 years to know the answer?

What would be the response of this genius society if professional killers said - you should not stop us from killing people - if you do that you are taking away our jobs.

Jobs are killing ecosystems, work is killing ecosystems, economy is killing ecosystems - work has turned into overwork, unnecessary work, extra work, destructive work.

Industrial Society is destroying necessary things [animals, trees, air, water, land] for making unnecessary things [consumer goods].

Without environment humans will not even exist.

Without environment millions of other species will not exist.

We are alive because of nature - we owe our very existence to nature.

But this insane, abnormal and criminal "Industrial Society" continues to choose jobs instead of environment - economy instead of environment.

Insanity raised to the power of infinity.



Out of millions of species the human species is the only species which is insane enough to believe that food comes from money.

Millions of other species have lived on earth for millions of years. Their food did not come from money.

Food does not come from money - food comes from nature - food grows because of nature - food exists because of fertile soil, water, air, sunlight.......

Industrial Society has killed, polluted, poisoned the very things that produce food.

You can load trillions of dollars into a rocket and send it to the moon - you will not be able to buy a single grain of food over there.

Money is paper, money is plastic - money is not food.

Chief Seattle of the Indian Tribe had warned :

"only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you realize that you cannot eat money"



When is this insane society going to understand that it is not just Industrial accidents that destroy ecosystems - all Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.

The Bhopal gas tragedy killed 20,000 people, crippled half a million people for life, killed thousands of animals and birds, killed/ polluted/ poisoned... the air, water and soil.

Union Carbide was making pesticides/ insecticides in its plant. These carcinogenic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of people all over the world every year - directly or indirectly. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning millions of acres of soil every year, These toxic insecticides and pesticides are killing millions of animals and birds every year. These toxic insecticides and pesticides are poisoning the underground and above-ground water sources. These toxic insecticides and pesticides have poisoned the entire food chain leading to multiple organ failure, genetic defects, birth defects.

If the Bhopal Gas Tragedy had not happened the toxic insecticides and pesticides produced by Union Carbide would have still led to destruction of ecosystems, killing of humans, animals, birds, air, water and soil.


Recently there was an oil spill in the sea in US. The oil is killing marine life.

Oil kills ecosystems when it spills into the sea.

Oil kills ecosystems even when it does'nt spill into the sea.

If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to power ships that move around oceans - catching fish, killing marine life, torturing marine life moment by moment. At any given time there are 50,000 ships moving in the oceans.

If the oil had not spilled it would have been used to run millions of cars, other vehicles, aeroplanes - whose exhausts would release millions of tonnes of toxic gases into the atmosphere. That is not all - ecosystems are killed to manufacture millions of cars, trucks, ships and aeroplanes that run on oil.

If the oil had not spilled into the sea it would have been used to run millions of industries and factories - all of which kill ecosystems - animals, trees, air, water, land.


When we make consumer goods we kill Animals/ Trees, Air/ Water and Land - directly or indirectly.

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems - all Industrial Societies destroy ecosystems.

It hardly matters whether it is "Capitalist Industrial Society" - "Communist Industrial Society" - or "Socialist Industrial Society".

Industrial Society destroys ecosystems at every stage of its functioning - when consumer goods are produced - when consumer goods are used - when consumer goods are discarded/ recycled.

Raw material for industry is obtained by cutting up Forests. It is extracted by mining/ digging up the earth. It comes by destroying/ killing Trees, Animals and Land.

Industries/ Factories use Water. The water that comes out of Factories is contaminated with hundreds of toxic chemicals. Industry kills Water. What to speak of Rivers - entire Oceans have been polluted.

Industries burn millions of tonnes of fuel and when raw material is melted/ heated up, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into the atmosphere. Industry kills Air.

Industrial Society has covered millions of square miles of land with cement and concrete. Industry kills Land.

When consumer goods are discarded/ thrown away in landfills it again leads to destruction of ecosystems.

When consumer goods are recycled, hundreds of toxic chemicals are released into air, water and land.

Consumer goods are sold/ marketed through a network of millions of kilometers of rail / road network and shipping routes which causes destruction of all ecosystems that come in the way.

Industrial Society has generated billions of tonnes of hazardous solid, liquid and gaseous waste - billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic
waste, eWaste, chemical waste, nuclear waste.


When an Industrial accident happens the focus of entire world shifts to it.

All environmentalists are outraged.

As if the environment was in good shape before the accident and will be in good shape after the accident.

The problem is not Industrial accident -the problem is not any particular Industrial accident - the problem is Industry itself.

Industrial accidents will continue to happen as long as Industry exists.

They will only get bigger and bigger.

Bigger the Industry bigger the Industrial accident.


Industry kills ecosystems when there is an Industrial accident.

Industry kills ecosystems even when there is no Industrial accident.

All Industrial activity is an accident.

All Industrial activity destroys ecosystems.

All Industrial activity kills animals, trees, air, water, land.

All Industrial activity leads to environmental crisis, environmental disaster, environmental catastrophe.

It is impossible to save ecosystems as long as industry exists.




Technology has destroyed ecosystems.

But the Techno-Worshippers of this insane Industrial Society want still more technology, new technology, better technology, advanced technology - they claim that technology will save the ecosystems.

Two thousand years ago the air was clean - it was not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial gases and particulate matter.

Which technology made the air clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the rivers and oceans were clean - they were not contaminated with billions of tonnes of toxic Industrial waste.

Which technology made the water clean? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the planet was full of forests - millions of species thrived - their population was hundreds and thousands of times greater than what it is now.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago the oceans were full of fish and other marine species.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous waste did not exist on this planet.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?

Two thousand years ago billions of tonnes of metal waste, plastic waste, chemical waste, eWaste, nuclear waste did not exist on this planet.

Which technology made this possible? - American?....British?....German?....Japanese?


Technology does not save ecosystems - it is the absence of technology that saves ecosystems.

Science, technology and industrialization lead to over-exploitation of ecosystems.

Technology is not the saviour of ecosystems - technology is the destroyer of ecosystems.


sushil_yadav
*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


----------



## winkash

Hi, sushil yadav. Your thoughtful analysis left me with no choice but carfully considering the current state of affairs.
Just one thing: no matter how hard I try, I can't figure out how could we save our minds and environment without symbols, data, research and calculations.


----------



## sushil_yadav

winkash said:


> Hi, sushil yadav. Your thoughtful analysis left me with no choice but carfully considering the current state of affairs.
> Just one thing: no matter how hard I try, I can't figure out how could we save our minds and environment without symbols, data, research and calculations.



*winkash,*

Thanks for your post.

All the research work that modern society is doing is neither going to save the environment nor the mind.

Two thousand years ago there was hardly any research, discussion, debate and argument about environment - and the environment was millions of times in better condition than today.

Today there is billions of pages of research, discussion, debate and argument on environment - and millions of species have been decimated, most ecosystems are on the verge of total collapse.

Two thousand years ago our minds were much more peaceful than today.

Today we have created a society that is surviving on prescription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, coffee......and other mind-altering chemicals.  Take these chemicals away and the whole society will collapse.


sushil_yadav
*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


----------



## winkash

Yes, evidence shows that drugs are killing intelligence. 
Oh, wait a minute, you said:


sushil_yadav said:


> Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.
> 
> Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.



Couldn't we turn adversity into good fortune?


----------



## sushil_yadav

alentravorski said:


> seriously, just a bunch of hippie shit. pretentiousness drips heavily from your sentences that is.



A non-sensical one line post.......Is this all you are capable of writing?????

........

Food, Clothing &  Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can  provide to humans....... Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated  immediately. 

Industrial Society is doing research on sustainability after destroying  75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems. Nature has already done  millions of years of research on sustainability.......Nature has already  given us millions of years of proof of sustainability. Animals did not  destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was  limited to searching for food. Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy  Environment for a million years because their activity was limited to  searching for food. Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of  environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society]because  their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter. 



For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for  Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial  Society or Socialist Industrial Society? 

This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison. 

Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism. 

Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism. 

All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry,  Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry,  Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil  Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road  network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt  matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism. 

American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian  Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial  Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has  destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It  does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or  Socialism. 

In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests,  Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and  Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population  of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years  ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions  of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste,  eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in  Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with  Cement And Concrete. 

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food. 

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million  years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food. 

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over  10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their  activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter. 

Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250  years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of  consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter. 

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop  immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and  Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption  must be kept to the minimum. 



There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization. 

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization. 

Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of  Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not  exist without Industrial Activity. 

Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire  world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even  Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and  yet population of the world remained low before industrialization  because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and  water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large  populations today because they started with larger populations thousands  of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions.  What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years  ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and  China???? 

Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism. 

Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation. 

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated. 

When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population. 

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in  human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of  animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not  increased…..It has decreased. 

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there  was a time when the combined population of other animal species was  much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to  include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of  big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater  than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion. 

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater  than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal  species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for  millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food  and not for thousands of consumer goods and services. 

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of  years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years  ago. 

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50  years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is  the problem with population????? 

What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is  Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800  to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world  population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today. 

It is not population that destroys environment......It is  lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species  was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did  not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed  environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods. 

The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation. 

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment  [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7  billion] 

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental  destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian  Society would never reach a population of 7 billion] 

Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism 

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about  overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is  so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control  population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and  GDP exponentially. 

Height of Insanity! 

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop  immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and  Shelter. 


sushil_yadav
* Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment *


----------



## Rustgold

The fast pace of this article starts off perfectly.  First problem arises at:



> Subjects will be asked to intensify and sustain the subjective feeling of pain/ grief for the sufferer.
> ...
> Results :


A study yet to be undertaken can't have results.  This is harmful to the credibility of the author's projection on the topic.

Then the piece starts to truly lose it at:


> *IQ Vs EQ*


Stretching things to breaking point often ends up with the elastic breaking without warning.  I feel that you stretched things too far here when attempting to make your case.  IQ & EQ are different, but it doesn't make them polar opposites.  Many psychopaths (with low IQ & almost zero EQ) are extreme examples of people breaking your theory, but people with either low or high IQ can have a varied amounts of EQ.  I'm not sure you properly understand what either term actually means.


I thought the article went to mush after that, but you having already lost me may have contributed to that feeling.


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## sushil_yadav

Rustgold said:


> The fast pace of this article starts off perfectly.  First problem arises at:
> 
> A study yet to be undertaken can't have results.  This is harmful to the credibility of the author's projection on the topic.



The article is a critique of science, technology and Industrialization......It is against science, technology and industrialization.

Scientific Experiments and Scientific Proofs are unnecessary creations of modern society where 50% of world population is producing food for 100% of population and most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in unnecessary work.......scientific experiments and research being one of them. 

The experiments I have proposed are primarily meant for those people who  understand only the language of science. We don't need experiments to  understand that our present lifestyle is destroying our Minds and  Environment - the evidence is everywhere - left, right and center. The  craze and fetish for science and scientific proof has mainly existed for  the last 50 - 100 years. People have lived on this planet for thousands  of years without needing scientific proof to understand something. It  is Science and Technology that created the consumerist Industrial  Society which has led to the destruction of Mind and Nature/  Environment......75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed after Industrialization. Who needs more science or more scientific proof. *Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.*


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## RedSky

Wow this is complicated for me, but i wanted to see what goes on in the non-fiction area since im only in the fiction part


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## riverdog

You are a modern day Elsworth Toohey.  Bravo!


----------



## sushil_yadav

Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is  trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by  changing the technology. 

Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology. 

A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to  save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the  victim by stopping the shooting. 

The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing  technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And  continues to shoot. 

. 
. 

Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to  save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ...... 

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more. 

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more. 

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison. 

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it. 

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250  years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of  consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter. 

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity. 

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for  pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that  Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after  industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250  years that there is hardly any environment left to save. 

. 
. 

Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save  environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental  Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save  environment. 

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment  through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing  environmental issues. 

Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money. 

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not  save environment with modern technology........They had no modern  technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved  environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of  ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines. 

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not  save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or  Activism........They had no environmental organizations. 

Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of  years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment  during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very  little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of  10,000 years. 

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment. 

. 
. 

Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest  terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than  Taliban and Al Qaeda. 

Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda 

No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization,  Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to  destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth??? 

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of  Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and  Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire  planet......It was Industrial Society. 

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society. 

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile  soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society. 

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing. 

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex. 

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth. 

For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that  destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and  shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for  food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for  food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and  shelter. 

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction. 

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP" 
These are figures of "Ecocide". 
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature". 
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems". 
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality". 

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth. 

. 
. 

Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been  destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work  which has led to exponential "extra destruction of  environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests,  Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere. 

For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the  primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and  agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of  years because they destroyed very little environment compared to  Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that  destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter. 

In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100%  of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily  engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and  services". 

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world. 

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is  engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services. 

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity. 

Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population. 

Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population. 

Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population. 

Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services. 

Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services. 

In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of  population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and  West. 

World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the  entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/  reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains  the same. 

As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will  continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining  Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction  Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation  Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of  kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial  Activities will continue to exist and expand. 

This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food. 

This planet cannot sustain Urban population. 

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban  Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population  that does not produce food. 

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food. 

One profession means destruction of environment for one  thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment  for thousands of things. 

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food. 

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million  years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food. 

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over  10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their  activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter. 

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems  in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for  "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing  and shelter". 

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society  includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer  Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports  Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research  .....and lots of other work. 

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of  people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of  "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of  "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment. 

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is  destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports  Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of  acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to  build millions of Stadiums. 

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all  about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys  Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting  through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of  kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of  kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of  exhaust gases. 

Millions of people are working in Entertainment  Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of  Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of  tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment. 

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex"  producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the  world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when  they are used. 

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment. 

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans. 

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because  Industrialization has increased world population to 7  billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7  billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the  absence of industrialization world population would have been only a  small fraction of 7 billion today. 

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment. 

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services. 

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which  means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have  existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years  of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated  or minimized. 

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save  the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for  production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial  Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in  these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the  minimum. 


*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


----------



## jeffrey c mcmahan

sushil_yadav:

It's all in the presentation. This material should be presented as an Argument/persuasion research paper, format. All the information present came off as isolated and unsupported statements. It amounts to propaganda slogans. I am not devaluing the information, or trying to claim it's untrue, just that, as it's presented, it's to difficult to process. I only scrolled through pausing every now and then to see what's was there. You no doubt have enough information to do justice to your title; but I am not patient enough to assemble it, in order to form a conclusion. That is your job. Start with a thesis paragraph, to define the direction; present the information, supporting it with valid arguments; conclude it with a summary of the information, and how it supports your thesis. Then you will have something I could comment on directly.

regards

jeffrey


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## sushil_yadav

Uriah said:


> Because Sushil's dissertation speaks to the metaphysical dissociation we humans are presently afflicted with. There is a wide schism between science and soul, we have created a culture of materialist excess, blind to spirit and to the connection we share with the earth.
> This dissociation is a central theme to many of the philosophical ideas of Deepak Chopra and all of the Post-Modernist movement, of which he is loosely connected.
> 
> In fact he recently said,
> _“…only a change of consciousness can bring about radical change on the outside. Each person must realize that human beings don't own the planet. Life does, on every level. We owe our existence to plankton, blue-green algae, and one-celled organisms at the base of the food chain, not to mention our evolutionary debt to primitive life forms going back billions of years.”_
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/who-owns-the-planet_b_40439.html



*Uriah,*

You are absolutely right......This planet was home to millions of species, not just man alone.....Man has decimated all other species and has taken over the entire planet - The Land, The Sea / Oceans, The Sky / Atmosphere.

Humans are alive because of nature....Humans owe their very existence to nature.....For millions of years human life was sustained by animals, trees, air, water and soil.

Welfare of nature is millions of times more important than human welfare.....Without nature humans will not even exist.

............................................................................
*Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.*
............................................................................

A  Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in  the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the  scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not  try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue  shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the  city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take  them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology /  Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do  research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved,  How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly  can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to  "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be  saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion,  Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment  is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental  Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without  stopping Industrial Activity

One group is trying to save  Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third  group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make  the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and  Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Industrial  Technology has destroyed environment........Industrial Society is  trying to save environment by changing the Technology.

Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology........Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.

Height  of Insanity and Abnormality......This is like trying to save a victim  of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun.

People  who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without  stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

Why  don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their  efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and  land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

What is the point  in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial  Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses  and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with  Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry,  Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing  Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever  expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing  billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through  discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which  has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead  zones in the oceans.

It is impossible to save Air, water and  Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial  Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste,  Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear  Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid,  Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where  all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth  place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for  Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

All  Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial  Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial  Society.

People who pretend they are saving environment in  Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than  people who are destroying the environment.

It is impossible to  save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself  is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial  society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of  Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only  limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial  Machines.

.
.

Environment has been destroyed by  Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping  Industrial Activity is like ..

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial  Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It  has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and  services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The  entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for  pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that  Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after  industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250  years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

.
.

What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

Industrial  Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air,  Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several  decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

Industrial  Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the  Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several  decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil  with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste  every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing  Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes  of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and  Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

Industrial Society  has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete  and Asphalt every day for several decades.

All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.

.
.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

How  can environment ever be saved in Industrial Society when Industrial  Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction....Environment  can only be saved in a Non-Industrial Society.

Industrial  Society has created hundreds of unnecessary / futile occupations to  solve the problems created by Industrialization.....Environmental  Activism is one of them.....If thousands of organizations and millions  of activists are trying to save environment in Industrial Society it  does not mean that environment is getting saved…..There have been three  human societies on earth .....Hunter_Gatherer, Agrarian and  Industrial.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society there was no Urban Population,  entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian  Society less than 2% of population was Urban, Most of the population was  engaged in producing food.....In Industrial Society 50% of world  population is producing food for entire population , the remaining 50%  population is Urban which has created hundreds of unnecessary  occupations to keep itself occupied..... People would go crazy without  work…. Environmentalism / Environmental Activism is one such profession  [occupation]......[Other unnecessary and destructive professions in  Industrial Society include Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of  consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment  Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and several other  jobs]....No Environmentalism was needed in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian  Societies because in the absence of Industrial Activity only limited  destruction of environment was possible, so environment got saved  automatically.

If billions of pages of environmental discussion  is taking place in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment  is getting saved......Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a  Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing  Press, Radio, Television and Internet.....Animal Species and  Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through  discussion.....They didn't even have a language for  discussion…..Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is  another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes  of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste  and Nuclear Waste.

All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.

No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.

.
.

The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.

Industrialization,  Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen  together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism  happen at the same time.

It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.

There  used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before  Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till  1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced  drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world  population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.

India  and China have large populations today because they started with larger  populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations thrived  in these regions.....What was the population of Europe and America 2000  years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and  China???? .....And once again, In the absence of Industrialization India  and China would not be having large populations today.

If  Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept  population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and  bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity  of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and  water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic  Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not  have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.

If  Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in very  good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no  overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.

A Non-Industrial  Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land [Forests] but  Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100% safe  today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is  now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have  been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy  populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of  Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and  Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and  Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.

It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.

A  Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little  environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for  food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An  Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little  environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]......  because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and  shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[By  the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a  population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never  reached a population of 7 billion]

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.

Industrial  Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human  population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal  species.... The total burden of population on this planet has not  increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated  millions of other species......There was a time when the combined  population of other animal species was much greater than present human  population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this  count.....The combined population of big animals alone whose size and  weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than  current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this  animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by  humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy  environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of  years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for  thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a  consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have  destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world  has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these  efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem  with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to  complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of  overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make  attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate,  Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

This planet can only sustain a Non-Industrial Society.

.
.

If  Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......Electricity, Oil,  Machinery and Equipment, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[  Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce  food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to  produce food for themselves]

Urban Population is engaged in  Unnecessary Work, Meaningless Work, Futile Work and Destructive Work  which has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems  on earth.

For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing  Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human  population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".

.
.

Animal  Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society  had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than  Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for  millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society  which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the  Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial  Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban  Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do  not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It  can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian  Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This  planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the  entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain  an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for  entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting  Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of  years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer  Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for  food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed  environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial  Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it  destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in  addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom,  Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire  population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It  is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting Industrial  Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation  Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction  Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of  kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping  Lanes…..They all destroy environment......All Industrial Activity must  be stopped.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum  number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to  save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population  so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it  was for millions of years before Industrialization.

.
.

This  planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is  not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization /  Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The  solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.

Capitalism,  Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is  percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with  80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a  Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A  Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as  Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with  80% Urban Population.

Urban Population is responsible for  consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces  thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.

Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.

Saving  environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No  Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist  Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist  Industrial Societies.

There cannot be any sustainable Industrial  Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies  in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All  Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.

Destruction  of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over  Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental  Crisis is meaningless and absurd.

Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.

Today  50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world  population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50%  population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and  marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban  population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and  services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist  it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the  percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue  producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.

In  America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is  so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or  Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage  of Urban Population would still remain the same.

In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.

In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.

Capitalism,  Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is  Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.

This  planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet  cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This  planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society  where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" /  producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society  where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the  remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and  services.

.
.

Industrial Society has existed for barely  250 years which comes to almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence  on earth....Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in  Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial  Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable. 

A  pure non-industrial society is not possible now because  Industrialization has increased world population to 7  billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7  billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the  absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2  billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We  must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which  means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have  existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years  of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated  or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental  Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by  stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and  services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily  limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three  fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.


*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


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## grant-g

Hmm,.     


Well, the industrial problem is not new; so the guy who said you are handing out unsupported statements is, fairly, wrong.  

The gilded-age, robber barons... this went into the 20th century, battled by progressivists, as they began to scientifically evaluate the effects of industrialized society on man.  This is where labor laws originated; 1890-1920 <-- right into WWI

It seems like what you are explaining, especially when you are comparing the effects that slowing imagery has on the brain, is in fact the effects of the digital era.  There is some talk that the technologies we indulge in - and I think you might have said this - have negative evolutionary effects on us.  

Yeah man.. this is true stuff...  There are people who were writing about the mechanization of labor, and its catastrophic implications at some pretty crazy points in history and I mean like the 40's and 50's and in the 70's   (i cant actually remember if this person said it in the 40's 50's or 70's  )  All i mean is there are lots of references available to study this.  



pretty cool man.  what is that like a turbean/chicago - science format?


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## Cran

> [If scientists can discover 4000 different chemicals in cigarette-smoke  then they can certainly detect the few chemicals released in blood when  we experience higher-level emotions like pain, empathy, compassion,  remorse etc… ]


Not only can they do this, they have been doing it for over 100 years, and you should learn to do your research before presenting yourself as some kind of expert. 

Proposing an experiment, and then predicting the results not only nullifies the experiment, it nullifies the entire argument. That experiment has been conducted, by the way, many times with thousands of students and other test groups.

You are also way out of line thinking that scientists are not aware of the issues brought about by the need to breed up to 7 billion people and counting. You want to go back to hunter-gatherer, or simple agrarian? Fine, which 6.5 billion do you want to kill off so that you can do that?

Your railing against technology, and wailing for the environment is nothing new. Every generation before you has done much the same against the environmental degradation and exploitation of its day, and then every generation has spawned the next with even more people and more needs. 

Do you even understand the irony? Here you are, on the internet, consuming electricity and exploiting the resources that went into developing and building the satellites that send your message, and you are spouting slogans against it. 

You want to help? Stop pretending to be a politician - they are not worth aspiring to, anyway - and find something more practical than complaints to focus on.


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## sushil_yadav

Cran said:


> Proposing an experiment, and then predicting the results not only nullifies the experiment, it nullifies the entire argument. That experiment has been conducted, by the way, many times with thousands of students and other test groups.



The experiments I have proposed are primarily meant for those people who  understand only the language of science.... We don't need experiments to  understand that our present lifestyle is destroying our Minds and  Environment - the evidence is everywhere - left, right and center.... The  craze and fetish for science and scientific proof has mainly existed for  the last 50 - 100 years.... People have lived on this planet for thousands  of years without needing scientific proof to understand something.... It  is Science and Technology that created the consumerist Industrial  Society which has led to the destruction of Mind and Nature/  Environment..... Who needs more science or more scientific proof..... *Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.*


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## sushil_yadav

Cran said:


> You are also way out of line thinking that scientists are not aware of the issues brought about by the need to breed up to 7 billion people and counting. You want to go back to hunter-gatherer, or simple agrarian? Fine, which 6.5 billion do you want to kill off so that you can do that?



Industrial Society has existed for barely  250 years which comes to  almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence  on earth....Humans have  spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in  Non-Industrial  Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial  Society is an  Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable. 

*A  pure non-industrial society is not possible now because   Industrialization has increased world population to 7   billion*.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7   billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the   absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2   billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We  must eliminate the things that were added last to the  list......which  means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of  which have  existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of  Thousands of years  of Total Human Existence on earth .........these  have to be eliminated  or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental  Apocalypse.......The only way to save  the remaining environment is by  stopping Industrial Activity for  production of consumer goods and  services immediately........Industrial  Activity must be primarily  limited to food, clothing and  shelter.......and even in these three  fields production and consumption  must be kept to the minimum.


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## sushil_yadav

Cran said:


> Do you even understand the irony? Here you are, on the internet, consuming electricity and exploiting the resources that went into developing and building the satellites that send your message, and you are spouting slogans against it.
> 
> You want to help? Stop pretending to be a politician - they are not worth aspiring to, anyway - and find something more practical than complaints to focus on.



I never claimed that I am not a part of society that is destroying environment.

The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and   Environment" and since I am a citizen of Industrial Society I get   included automatically.

Computers are being used today because they are being manufactured by Industrial Society.

Was anyone using computers in Hunter_Gatherer Society / Agrarian Society?????

There are billions of people in this world who are not using   computers.....Has that saved the environment?????.....It hasn't, because   billions of other people are using computers and thousands of other  consumer  goods and services.

Environment doesn't get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It    doesn't get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It    doesn't get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It    doesn't get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which    is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half,  about   3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and  South   America .......but this doesn't save the  environment......because the   rest 3.5 billion people all over the  world are living a highly   consumerist life which is enough to destroy  all ecosystems.

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all    animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people    lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a    simple life.

In a non-industrial society simple living happens automatically....one    does not have to make efforts to live a simple life. In a  non-industrial   society environment gets saved automatically....one  does not have to   make efforts to save environment.

An Industrial Society produces thousands of consumer goods in addition    to food, clothing and shelter.....therefore simple living by entire    society is impossible.


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## The Backward OX

sushil_yadav said:


> *Uriah,*
> 
> You are absolutely right......This planet was home to millions of species, not just man alone.....Man has decimated all other species and has taken over the entire planet - The Land, The Sea / Oceans, The Sky / Atmosphere.
> 
> Humans are alive because of nature....Humans owe their very existence to nature.....For millions of years human life was sustained by animals, trees, air, water and soil.
> 
> Welfare of nature is millions of times more important than human welfare.....Without nature humans will not even exist.
> 
> ............................................................................
> *Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.*
> ............................................................................
> 
> A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.
> 
> The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.
> 
> This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
> 
> Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity
> 
> One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.
> 
> Industrial Technology has destroyed environment........Industrial Society is trying to save environment by changing the Technology.
> 
> Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology........Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.
> 
> Height of Insanity and Abnormality......This is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun.
> 
> People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.
> 
> Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.
> 
> What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.
> 
> It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.
> 
> This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.
> 
> All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.
> 
> People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.
> 
> It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.
> 
> .
> .
> 
> Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..
> 
> Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.
> 
> Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.
> 
> Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.
> 
> Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.
> 
> Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
> 
> You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.
> 
> The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.
> 
> .
> .
> 
> What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???
> 
> Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.
> 
> Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.
> 
> Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.
> 
> Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.
> 
> Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with billions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.
> 
> Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.
> 
> All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.
> 
> .
> .
> 
> All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.
> 
> No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.
> 
> How can environment ever be saved in Industrial Society when Industrial Activity itself is the cause of environmental destruction....Environment can only be saved in a Non-Industrial Society.
> 
> Industrial Society has created hundreds of unnecessary / futile occupations to solve the problems created by Industrialization.....Environmental Activism is one of them.....If thousands of organizations and millions of activists are trying to save environment in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved…..There have been three human societies on earth .....Hunter_Gatherer, Agrarian and Industrial.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society there was no Urban Population, entire population was engaged in searching for food.....In Agrarian Society less than 2% of population was Urban, Most of the population was engaged in producing food.....In Industrial Society 50% of world population is producing food for entire population , the remaining 50% population is Urban which has created hundreds of unnecessary occupations to keep itself occupied..... People would go crazy without work…. Environmentalism / Environmental Activism is one such profession [occupation]......[Other unnecessary and destructive professions in Industrial Society include Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex and several other jobs]....No Environmentalism was needed in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Societies because in the absence of Industrial Activity only limited destruction of environment was possible, so environment got saved automatically.
> 
> If billions of pages of environmental discussion is taking place in Industrial Society it does not mean that environment is getting saved......Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.....Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion.....They didn't even have a language for discussion…..Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.
> 
> All Environmentalism in Industrial Society is Pseudo Environmentalism.
> 
> No environment is getting saved in Industrial Society.....Not an iota of environment is getting saved.
> 
> .
> .
> 
> The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.
> 
> Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.
> 
> Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.
> 
> Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen at the same time.
> 
> It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.
> 
> The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.
> 
> There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.
> 
> If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.
> 
> India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions.....What was the population of Europe and America 2000 years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and China???? .....And once again, In the absence of Industrialization India and China would not be having large populations today.
> 
> If Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.
> 
> If Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in very good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.
> 
> A Non-Industrial Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land [Forests] but Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100% safe today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.
> 
> It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.
> 
> A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.
> 
> An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.
> 
> [By the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]
> 
> Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.
> 
> Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.
> 
> When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.
> 
> Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species.... The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.
> 
> Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species......There was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....The combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.
> 
> The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.
> 
> If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.
> 
> The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????
> 
> It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.
> 
> This planet can only sustain a Non-Industrial Society.
> 
> .
> .
> 
> If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment, Villagers will survive forever.
> 
> If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.
> 
> [ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]
> 
> Urban Population is engaged in Unnecessary Work, Meaningless Work, Futile Work and Destructive Work which has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth.
> 
> For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.
> 
> There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".
> 
> .
> .
> 
> Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.
> 
> The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.
> 
> This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.
> 
> This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.
> 
> Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.
> 
> Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
> 
> In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".
> 
> It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes…..They all destroy environment......All Industrial Activity must be stopped.
> 
> Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.
> 
> .
> .
> 
> This planet cannot sustain an Industrial / Urban Society......The problem is not Capitalism, The problem is Industrialization / Urbanization.......The solution is not Communism or Socialism, The solution is Non-Industrial / Non-Urban Society.
> 
> Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter at all........What matters is percentage of Urban Population......A Socialist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population...... A Communist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population will be as Harmful, Destructive and Evil as a Capitalist Industrial Society with 80% Urban Population.
> 
> Urban Population is responsible for consumerism.......Urban Population does not produce Food.....It produces thousands of Consumer Goods and Services.
> 
> Consumerism is directly proportional to Percentage of Urban Population.
> 
> Saving environment in Industrial Society is an impossibility......No Industrial Society can save environment.......Communist or Socialist Industrial Societies cannot be less destructive than Capitalist Industrial Societies.
> 
> There cannot be any sustainable Industrial Society........The fault does not lie in Capitalism.....The fault lies in Industrialization.....All Industrial Societies are the same.....All Industrial Societies are equally harmful, destructive and evil.
> 
> Destruction of environment is guaranteed in Industrial Society......The debate over Capitalism, Communism and Socialism in the context of Environmental Crisis is meaningless and absurd.
> 
> Industrialization , Urbanization and Consumerism go hand in hand......They happen together.
> 
> Today 50% of world population is Urban, living in cities...... 50% of world population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population living in Cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services........Urban population is not producing food, it is producing consumer goods and services.......Even if the entire world is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to bring about any change in consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population will remain the same and it will continue producing and marketing thousands of consumer goods and services.
> 
> In America 90 - 95% of population is Urban......That is why consumerism is so rampant in the US......Even if America is made Communist or Socialist it is not going to reduce consumerism because the percentage of Urban Population would still remain the same.
> 
> In Europe 80 - 90% of population is Urban.
> 
> In China and India consumerism has risen exponentially with the increase in percentage of Urban Population.
> 
> Capitalism, Communism or Socialism does not matter.......What matters is Industrialization and Urbanization which results in Consumerism.
> 
> This planet cannot sustain Industrial Urban Population.......This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.
> 
> This planet can sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society where almost the entire population is engaged in "searching for food" / producing food......This planet cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of population is producing food for entire population and the remaining 50% population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.
> 
> .
> .
> 
> Industrial Society has existed for barely 250 years which comes to almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence on earth....Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable.
> 
> A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.
> 
> If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.
> 
> At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.
> 
> We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.
> 
> We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
> 
> 
> *Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*



I agree with everything you say, but no one else is listening. So now I just sit back and wait for the apocalypse. THEN we might have a Hunter-Gatherer society again.


----------



## Cran

sushil_yadav said:


> *A  pure non-industrial society is not possible now because   Industrialization has increased world population to 7   billion*.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7   billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the   absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2   billion today.


And yet, the greatest population increases have been in the less industrialised nations in Africa, and in India and China, with natural births decreasing in the more industrialised nations of Europe and North America. 

So, again - which 6.5 billion do you want to kill off? Or, closer to home, which 850 million Indians do you want to kill so that you can have your hunter-gatherer society back?


----------



## sushil_yadav

Cran said:


> And yet, the greatest population increases have been in the less industrialised nations in Africa, and in India and China, with natural births decreasing in the more industrialised nations of Europe and North America.



Overpopulation is a result of Industrialization......It was the west that started Industrial Revolution.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.

Industrialization,  Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen   together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism   happen at the same time.

*It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.*

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.

There  used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before   Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till   1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced   drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world   population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.

India  and China have large populations today because they started with  larger  populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations  thrived  in these regions.....What was the population of Europe and  America 2000  years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of  India and  China???? .....And once again, In the absence of  Industrialization India  and China would not be having large populations  today.

If  Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept   population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and   bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity   of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and   water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic   Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not   have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.

If  Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in  very  good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no   overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.

A Non-Industrial  Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the  land [Forests] but  Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100%  safe  today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is   now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have   been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy   populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of   Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and   Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and   Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.

It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.

A  Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little   environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for   food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An  Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little   environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]......   because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and   shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[By  the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a   population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never   reached a population of 7 billion]

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.

Industrial  Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase  in human  population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions  of animal  species.... The total burden of population on this planet  has not  increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated  millions of other species......There  was a time when the combined  population of other animal species was  much greater than present human  population.....and we don't even need  to include smaller animals in this  count.....The combined population of  big animals alone whose size and  weight was equivalent to or greater  than man was much greater than  current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this  animal population was eating was much greater  than the food consumed by  humans today.......Yet millions of animal  species did not destroy  environment and lived sustainably on earth for  millions of  years......because they destroyed environment only for food  and not for  thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a  consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of  years ago they would have  destroyed all ecosystems millions of years  ago.

The entire world  has been trying to control human population for 50  years and these  efforts should / will continue in future.....so where  is the problem  with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to  complain about  overpopulation when it itself is the cause of  overpopulation......It is  so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make  attempts to control  population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate,  Economy Rate and  GDP exponentially.


----------



## Kevin

Cran said:


> And yet, the greatest population increases have been in the less industrialised nations in Africa, and in India and China, with natural births decreasing in the more industrialised nations of Europe and North America.
> 
> So, again - which 6.5 billion do you want to kill off? Or, closer to home, which 850 million Indians do you want to kill so that you can have your hunter-gatherer society back?


 Agriculture, farming..That's what resulted in larger populations. The native populations of Europe and American are stagnating. 0% growth rates; long term. The people are choosing to have less children. Only the third world is 'overproducing'. And by the way, even the Yanumami grow crops. How do you prevent this? How do prevent "hunter/gatherers' from evolving? How do you keep them at their place for centuries? The Americas were full of large agrarian societies, from the Mississippi to Patagonia. Even the Amazon was engineered...


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## Nemesis

I'm pretty sure industrialism causes less births, not more. Just saying.


----------



## Cran

So it's health and longevity you're bitching about. You want to return to the 85% infant mortality and 34 year lifespan - good luck with that project.

No, hunter-gatherer could never support a 7 billion population; it's limit was around 500 million.


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## sushil_yadav

Cran said:


> You want to return to the 85% infant mortality and 34 year lifespan - good luck with that project.



Do you want a life span of Zero Years????......Humans are alive because of  nature......Humans owe their very existence to nature.....After  destroying all biodiversity and ecosystems humans will not even exist.

Industrial Society has existed for barely 250 years which comes to  almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence on earth....Humans have  spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial  Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an  Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable.


----------



## Kevin

*Five Point Plan To Restore Earth to Its Former Glory*


      Preface


Statement     of proposed goals.
Education
Beginnings
Mid-phase
Final     stages
      Closing


Preface: Only in more recent times has it come to the popular attention that the Earth has been increasingly showing signs of seemingly irreparable damage. Global warming and other changes to the Earth’s delicate balance, along with de-forestation, the multiple losses of species, and a general state of pollution have become increasingly noticeable to both the layman and the scientist. All of these can be directly attributable to the purposeful destructive activities of the human species. The following will attempt to explain both causation, and more importantly, offer concrete solutions to this ongoing, worldwide problem.   






1 - Statement     of Proposed Goals - The following is a five point plan proposing actual     plans of action in regards to the goal of restoring the planet Earth to     its formerly pristine state prior to the advent of Man’s embellishments     and alterations seen as detrimental to continuation of a balanced     eco-system. This five point plan, if enacted, shall attempt to cancel and     reverse all of the current and former activities undertaken by mankind     which have damaged the delicate balance of nature as was established by     the natural order and created for the enjoyment of the universe. It should be noted that this     shall primarily be achieved by a massive reduction in world populations,     specifically those belonging to the family of hominids, and primarily the     species _Homo sapiens._



2 - Education     - It is critical that both before, and while undertaking these proposed     actions, the general population fully understand and participate. In order     to facilitate this, a massive education program must be undertaken. All     forms of media in all parts of the world will need to operate under a     coordinated and simultaneous virtual assault on the ignorance and     obscurity that currently prevents a clear understanding of the overwhelming predicament that the planet finds itself in, and,     the most obvious and clear solutions and actions needed, which will not     only halt, but actually reverse the terrible state of things as they     currently exist. Television, newspapers, and internet sites are just the     beginning. Highly trained educators, speaking all of the world’s     languages, must fan out to the farthest reaches of the globe, spreading     the knowledge of what needs to be done.



3 - Beginnings     – This is the point at which big changes must be prepared for. All food     production, worldwide, including secondary processing and all farming     operations, must immediately be halted. All other worldwide factory     production or otherwise technological operations must also cease, with two     very important exceptions: A focused genetic engineering program, which I     will explain in more detail later, and, the production of, and indeed the     expanded production of one the oldest tools on the planet. I refer of     course, to the hammer. I will also explain a little more about this item     later.



4 - Mid-phase     – The Mid-phase is when actions really begin to take hold on a more     personal level. In point No.3 I mentioned two things upon which all human     industrial and technological endeavor must be focused, now I will explain.     I’ll start with the latter: the hammer. As I mentioned before, the hammer is and was, perhaps the oldest and most proto-typical of all tools ever thought of.     In its most primitive form, it was simply an object, any object, which     contained enough mass and weight that when struck against another object like     say, an acorn, or a nut, or, in the case of the sea otter, a mollusk, had sufficient force to create the desired processing or effect upon the     object struck, i.e.- to open the shell. Our modern hammer is essentially     the descendent of the rock, with the modification of an added handle. By     this phase of the proposed actions taken, the results of a cessation of     worldwide food production and the ensuing shortages will no doubt bring     about massive unrest and disturbances, along with an overall situation     of hunger. One of the educational lessons taught in point 1 would be the     adoption of a fauna based diet. This is where the utility of the hammer     comes into play: the procurement of nourishment. The most numerous and     most readily available source of animal foodstuffs would soon become     apparent. Again, previous education would be helpful. The harvesting of     this protein source and the almost complete abandonment ( as should be     stressed) of carbohydrate sources would begin the actual process of     eliminating or greatly reducing the single most important factor in the     previous degradation of the planets resources (along with all of its undesirable side     effects)



5 - Final stages – This is where, what I     consider, one of the most important factors in  the entire process must be completed: the genetic     re-engineering of the hominids, more precisely, _Homo sapiens._ The     underlying cause of the world's current state can all be traced to an     invention of nature which I consider it to be nature’s greatest error: the     opposable thumb. With the advent of the opposable thumb, Mankind became     irreparably separated from nature. This was the point at which all labor     saving devises became possible. If it were not for the human thumb, none     of the tools, which lead to eventual destruction and degradation of the     planet, would ever have occurred. Man would simply never have invented     anything which he could not hold and therefor use, indeed the imaginative mind itself might     never have evolved. So, that being said, I think it only fitting that the     same offending digit which was ultimately the cause of all this, be     eliminated. Finally, Man’s higher ingenuity and deviousness could be used     for some purpose other than his own selfish enrichment at the expense of     the planet; his mind will invent and engineer the genetic elimination of     the thumb. That which had to be achieved through classical means by doctors     in the delivery room  early in phases 3 & 4, would now be permanently achieved for all     time. From that moment forward man would become once again at one with     nature. No longer would he dominate his environment through artificially     created means, and in fact, at some point in the foreseeable future, he     might even become extinct.       

Closing – In closing I would just like to say that there are many specific items of action that I have not gone on in much detail about, or even touched upon, the surgical amputation of the thumb being just one of those. I’m sure there are also many specifics of which I have not even thought, and that each of these will have to be dealt with as they arise or become clearer during the course of adopting of the five points of the plan that I have listed.  

I would also like to say that the goals herein are definitely achievable, and that I look forward to bright new future, a more just and natural future, where all mankind, at a much reduced number, can once again live in complete harmony with nature.


----------



## sushil_yadav

..
*When there was still time to save environment a whole century was wasted in the futile debate over Capitalism, Socialism and Communism.*

Trying to save environment after 250 years of relentless Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.

*Industrial Activity destroys environment.....Where there is Industrial Activity there is environmental destruction.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism doesn't matter at all.*

Monsanto is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Nuclear Power Plants are not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Mining Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Logging Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Construction Industry is not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

Transportation Industry is not going to become less harmful under Communism or Socialism.

Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Tar Sands and Hydraulic Fracking are not going to become less destructive under Communism or Socialism.

.
.

A person is being shot 100 times......Some people are supposed to save the victim.....They do nothing till 99 bullets have hit the victim.....When the last bullet is about to be fired they rush to save the victim, who is already dead by then.

Industrial Activity has been destroying Biodiversity and Ecosystems for 250 years.....Industrial Society should not have been started in the first place.....Once it came into existence its harmful impact on environment should have alerted people and they should have tried to stop Industrial Activity in the early stages.....If people had tried to stop Industrial Activity 50 years or even 100 years after it began, environment could have been saved because most of the environmental destruction has taken place in the last 50 - 100 years when the rate of Industrialization and Consumerism rose exponentially.....Trying to save environment after 250 years of Industrial Activity is like trying to revive a dead man.....There is hardly any environment left to save.

.
.

When a mass shooter kills 20 American kids the world is outraged.

When millions of baby seals are clubbed to death the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of animals in Slaughter Houses the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of wild animals by destroying forests with Industrial Activity the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills billions of acres of fertile soil that provides food to millions of species with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt the world is not outraged.

When Industrial Society kills ecosystems that are home to millions of species it is called Progress, Growth, Development.

.
.

*Who is not a killer in Industrial Society?????*

*Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.*

Industrial Society has killed billions of farm animals in Slaughter Houses and billions of wild animals in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of animals.

Industrial Society has killed billions of Trees in forests with Industrial Activity for making consumer goods and services.....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita killing of Trees.

Industrial Activity has produced billions of tonnes of solid, liquid and gaseous Industrial Waste.....This waste has polluted and poisoned air, water and soil....If we divide this number by total Industrial population we get per capita waste which is a measure of per capita killing of air, water and soil.

Every citizen of Industrial Society is a Serial Killer.....Serial Killer of nature.....Serial Killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

Mass shooters are not the only insane people in this society.....The entire Industrial Society is insane.

The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.

.
.

Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain Hunter_Gatherer Society or Agrarian Society.....It cannot sustain an Industrial Society....It cannot sustain an Urban Society that produces thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.

An Industrial Society will always be cruel to millions of other species and to itself.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not even exist.

Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non-industrial society.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

.
*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


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## Olly Buckle

I have not read all of the 'article', what I did read was a series of unsupported statements that were often disputable, and in many cases highly questionable. The main tactic does not seem to be to discuss or analyse what is being said in any way, but to pile on more and more questionable statements to support an unproven thesis. I can not see that this is of any practical use, it appears to be a philosophical equivalent of the material overload the author is complaining of. I do not say the thesis is wrong, merely that there is no evidence presented either way, there are no facts, mereley opinionated statements. A decent argument presents both sides, presented in this way it becomes merely a rant.


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## sushil_yadav

We don't need scientific proof to understand that our present lifestyle is  destroying our Minds and Environment - the evidence is everywhere -  left, right and center. The craze and fetish for science and scientific  proof has mainly existed for the last 50 - 100 years. People have lived  on this planet for thousands of years without needing scientific proof  to understand something. It is Science and Technology that created the  consumerist Industrial Society which has led to the destruction of Mind  and Nature/ Environment. Who needs more science or more scientific  proof. *Science is not the solution - Science is the problem.*


Research is an unnecessary creation of Industrial Society which is making people more and more crazy. 

Before industrialization almost the entire population was engaged in  production of food [ hardly 1 - 2 % of population was not producing  food]....In Industrial Society 50% of world population is producing food  for entire population ......The remaining 50% population has created  thousands of unnecessary and destructive professions to keep itself  occupied.....Research is one such profession.....Millions of people are  doing unnecessary research on thousands of topics. 

Women feel sexiest at age 28.....Money makes you happy....Money doesn't  make you happy.....10 million dollars is needed for happiness, beyond  that it doesn't matter.....Alcohol is good for you....Alcohol is bad for  you....Alcohol in moderation is good for you....Office gossip can harm  you.....How Titanic sank....Why Titanic sank. 

Millions of people are doing unnecessary research which is making  Industrial Society more and more insane, day by day, moment by moment.
.
.

Discussion is good only if it is limited in content.

Endless hair splitting is a disease.

Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of  Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television  and Internet.

Billions of Pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another Harmful  Waste created by Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of  Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and  Nuclear Waste.

Discussion cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment for  millions of years through discussion......They did not even have a  language for discussing environmental issues.....Agrarian Society did  not save environment through discussion, It saved environment by  destroying less of it, By destroying environment only for food, clothing  and shelter and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If discussion could solve global problems this world would have become a  paradise long ago with the help of trillions of pages of  discussion......Whereas the reality is all the discussion is making it  more and more insane moment by moment.

I come from a country where "thinking" was considered the biggest  obstacle in making the mind peaceful.....The fields of yoga and  meditation were developed to stop thinking and achieve peaceful states  of mind.


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## Arcopitcairn

You want to know what I think? Are you prepared? Get ready...here it comes...


Ready?



Go write a story or a poem.


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## Kevin

This not a debate; this is a 'Manifesto' (what a great word) He's on a mission.


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## Arcopitcairn

Noted. But if he were to inject some artistic value into his sweeping  missive, would that not make it at least interesting? We need a  'Battlefield Earth' for the new generation! This guy need to  'Hubbard-up'!


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## Cran

sniff ... and here I'd thought this one had quietly slipped into obscurity ... 

thanks,* Olly*; you had nothing better to do on Christmas Day? Sigh ...


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## sushil_yadav

.

More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.

Most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed.

*Species are not lost when they become extinct....Species are lost when they get decimated....Species were lost when their populations dropped from billions and millions before industrialization to thousands and hundreds after industrialization.*

There are(were) millions of species in this world....Most of them have already been decimated because Industrial Activity has destroyed most of the forests....Millions of Plant and Animal species have been decimated by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks, Ports and Airports..

*If we calculate the decline in populations of millions of species after industrialization the combined loss will come to more than 99.9%.*
.
.

Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and killed by trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth. 

Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been decimated by Industrial Fishing.

Billions of acres of fertile soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.

More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.

A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.

After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not exist...It is only a matter of a few years now.
.
.

When people fall sick they rush to the doctor to save themselves.

When people fall sick they rush to the hospital to save themselves.

When the earth is sick, when the earth is dying, our response should be the same....We should make all efforts to save biodiversity and ecosystems.

.

*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


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## jay.doshi90

Sushil,

This is good stuff. Very well-written. The research is though baseless, your proposed experiments are intelligent and you have a great passion & interest for the subject. I thoroughly enjoyed it and it make me think about the state of the world we are in.

Especially, when you compare the outrage expressed over the mass killing of 20 kids by a teenager to the outrage expressed to the destruction of the world. Which is not much at all.

You can also say that the world is so engrossed in social issues ( such as the gangrape of a woman in India) that it has lost sight of the big picture. This is the sad state we are in and one day, it is all bound to end. So, just count your days and live fully and there is no other advice to give.

Good stuff, it does make me think a lot and I am glad you wrote this.

Take care,
Jay Doshi


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## sushil_yadav

jay.doshi90 said:


> You can also say that the world is so engrossed in social issues ( such as the gangrape of a woman in India) that it has lost sight of the big picture.
> 
> Jay Doshi



Thanks for your post*, Jay Doshi.*

Recently there has been a furore in India over the rape and death of a girl in Delhi.

 The male part of human species is defective.....It has been responsible for war and violence throughout the history of mankind.

 On a broader level the entire Industrial Society is rapist.....It has  raped the entire planet.....It has tortured, slaughtered and decimated  millions of species.....It has raped Rivers,  Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land by polluting, poisoning and killing  them with trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical  Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has  become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste  that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after  Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of  earth.

 Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are  oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been  decimated by Industrial Fishing.

 Billions of acres of fertile  soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed  by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt..

 Urban Population of  Industrial Society has raped Forests, Villages and Tribal Land with  Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing  Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining,  Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road  Network, Ports and Airports.

 The entire Industrial Society is rapist.

 Every citizen of Industrial Society is a rapist.

Evey citizen of Industrial Society is a serial killer of nature.....Serial killer of animals, trees, air, water and land.

 The entire Industrial Society is insane, abnormal and criminal.

 Welfare of humans and millions of other species is only possible in a non industrial society.

.
*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


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## sushil_yadav

.

Five Elephants were run over by a train in the state of Orissa in India yesterday.

 One of them was a female in advanced stage of pregnancy whose foetus came out as the train hit the mother.

 The world will celebrate one more New Year's Eve today......After  torturing, slaughtering and decimating millions of species this world  will celebrate yet another New Year today.
 .
 .

 After destroying planet Earth.....After  destroying most of the biodiversity and ecosystems, Industrial Society  should be in Mourning but it wants to Celebrate instead.

 It wants to Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of other Festivals.

 If Industrial Society had any shame there would have been no  Celebrations in the past , no celebrations for the next thousands of  years.....only Mourning.

 Industrial Society has decimated  millions of Animal Species, destroyed Forests, poisoned Rivers, Oceans,  Soil and Sky with Billions of Tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous  Industrial Waste.

 Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.

 Celebrate!!!....Celebrate Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Hundreds of  other Festivals!!!!.....Go Shopping.....Spend Money.....Buy Gifts....Buy  thousands of consumer goods and services.....Promote and Accelerate  Industrial Activity which will kill even more Biodiversity and  Ecosystems.

 And then wait for next year to celebrate the death of nature once more.

.

*Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment*


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## Arcopitcairn

A simple check of Google will show that these posts are spam, contributing nothing to the score of forums on which they are posted, save endless circular arguments.


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## sushil_yadav

.

Spam gets removed,,,,,,,Spam gets cleaned.

The fact that my posts are available in various forums proves they are not spam......doesn't it genius?????

This is my own article......I have posted in the non-fiction sub forum.

Any problem, Mr. Detective????

.


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## Arcopitcairn

sushil_yadav said:


> .
> 
> Any problem, Mr. Detective????
> 
> .



Other than the fact that your only posts on this forum consist of your 'article' and defense of it? Nope. You have contributed no art, no poetry, no prose. You have commented on nothing except your 'article'. You have given no reviews or encouragement to the actual authors here. You're not a member of this forum. You are a troll.


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## sushil_yadav

.

No one is forcing you to read the thread.....No one is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to read.

This article / thread is beyond your level, beyond your grasp, beyond your capacity to understand.
.


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## sushil_yadav

..

*Cities are the Graveyards of Nature, Urban Dwellers the Executioners.
*
Environment has been destroyed by Urban Population, Urban Work and Urban Education.

*All Industrial Activity that is destroying environment is being run by Urban Population and Urban Education.*

Industrial Activity has destroyed so much environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

Industrial Activity for production of thousands of consumer goods and services must stop immediately....Millions of other species get only food from earth....The maximum that man can/ should get is food, clothing and shelter....Urban Dwellers have to either transform into full time food producers or they have to stop working.

Billions of animals are being slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day.....Billions of fish are being killed by Industrial Fishing every day....Millions of acres of Forests are being destroyed by Industrial Activity every day....Millions of wild animals in forests are being killed by Industrial Activity every day.....Millions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste is being added to environment every day....Millions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste and eWaste are being added to environment every day.... Millions of acres of Fertile Soil is being killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day....Nuclear Industry has produced millions of tonnes of Nuclear Waste which will keep contaminating the planet with hazardous radioactivity for the next thousands of years.

*Progress, Growth, Development. 
*
This is terminology for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.

*Growth Rate  -  Economy Rate  -  GDP. 
*
These are figures for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.

*If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.

If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.*

If Urban Society stops all its supplies to Villages......electricity, oil, machinery, equipment and consumer goods, Villagers will survive forever.

If Villages stop all their supplies to Cities......Food Grains and Vegetables, Urban Population will die within a month.

[ Villagers need Electricity, Oil, Machinery and Equipment to produce food for the Urban Population , They would not need these things to produce food for themselves]

*Urban Work is not only dispensable it is highly injurious to planet earth.
*
Two centuries of Urban Work after industrialization has destroyed most of the biodiversity and ecosystems on earth.

Urban Work must stop immediately.

Cities, Urban Dwellers, Urban Work and Urban Education are a curse on this planet.

Urban Dwellers are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.

Urban Dwellers are serial killers of nature....Serial Killers of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land.

If consumer goods are eliminated from cities people will not die....If food and water are eliminated from cities people will die.

*Growth Rate* - *Economy Rate* - *GDP*
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Urban Population is a curse on this planet....Urban Dwellers are a curse on this planet.

Urban Population has destroyed necessary things [Animals, trees, Air, Water and Land] for making unnecessary things [Consumer Goods and Services]

Food, clothing and shelter are necessities, Not thousands of consumer goods and services.

.
.


For millions of years "Searching For Food" / "Producing Food" were the primary occupations of almost the entire human population in Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian Society.

There is Zero chance of saving the little environment that is left on earth without fixing the problem of "Urban Population".

.
.

*All Urban Dwellers are Eco Killers.....Adults as well as Children.

Urban Adults are already destroying environment by running Industrial Activity for production and marketing of thousands of consumer goods and services......Children are being groomed to do the same in future through Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education.

School and University Education has destroyed environment....All Industrial Activity is being run by Scientific, Technological, Industrial, Business and Financial Education.*

Everything in Cities is destructive in nature......Urban Dwellers, Urban Work, Urban Education.....Everything.

Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers, Urban Work and Urban Education.

The source / cause of all Industrial Activity is Urban Population, Urban Work and Education.

**Urban population trying to save environment is like Petrol trying to extinguish a fire.**

.
.

Rural Population of this world is doing work.....Urban Population of this world is doing destructive work.

Rural Population is producing food......Urban Population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services.

Since Urban Population is not producing food, it has created thousands of unnecessary professions to keep itself occupied [People would go crazy without work]....Destructive works and professions of Urban Dwellers include Production of consumer goods and services, Marketing of consumer goods and services, Jobs in Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary research and jobs in hundreds of other fields.

.
.

Why should rest of the world suffer for the decadent and destructive lifestyle of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Forests be destroyed for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Animals and Trees die for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Villages and Tribal Land be destroyed for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

Why should Rivers, Lakes and Oceans be destroyed for the Industrial Projects of Urban Dwellers????

.
.

A fraction of world population producing food for entire population....This is the root cause of all environmental destruction.

Rural Population producing food for Urban Population....This is the root cause of all environmental destruction.

Urban Population is not producing food, It is doing *Extra* Work which is causing *Extra* Destruction of environment.....Urban Population is producing thousands of consumer goods and services which has led to *Exponential* Extra Destruction of environment.

All Industrial Activity that is destroying environment is being run and promoted by Urban Population of the world.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.

This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.

Hunter_Gatherer Society was sustainable.....Agrarian Society was sustainable.....The question of Industrial Society being sustainable doesn't arise.

We cannot save environment by destroying more of it.....We cannot save environment by destroying it for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
.
.

Animal Species had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Hunter_Gatherer Society had Zero Percent Urban Population.......Agrarian Society had less than Two Percent Urban Population.......All these societies sustained for millions of years collectively.

The current Industrial Society which has 50% Urban Population worldwide has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years after Industrial Revolution.......Industrial Activity has been promoted by Urban Population......Industrial Activity has been promoted by people who do not produce food.

This planet can sustain Animal Species.....It can sustain Hunter_Gatherer Human Society......It can sustain Agrarian Human Society......It cannot sustain Industrial Human Society.

This planet can only sustain food producing societies where almost the entire population is engaged in food production......It cannot sustain an Industrial Society where 50% of world population is growing food for entire population and the remaining 50% living in cities is promoting Industrial Activity.

Animals saved environment for millions of years because they destroyed it only for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food.....Agrarian Society saved environment because it destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems because it destroyed environment for "Thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

In the Animal Kingdom, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society almost the entire population was engaged in "Searching for Food" / "Growing Food".

It is the Urban Population that is engaged in and promoting all kinds of Industrial Activity ......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.

Food, clothing and shelter......These are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans......The only way to save the remaining environment is by reorganizing the entire population so that food production remains the only primary activity just like it was for millions of years before Industrialization.

.
.

Industrial Society has existed for barely 250 years which comes to almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence on earth....In fact Industrial Society has existed for only about 100 years....Although Industrial Revolution started 250 years ago most of the world became heavily industrialized only in the last 100 years....100 years of Industrial Activity has destroyed this planet.....100 years of Industrial Activity has destroyed what was not destroyed in millions of years on earth.

Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable on earth.

.
.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
.


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## Terry D

The Non-Fiction forum exists for members to post work for the purpose of review and critique, not as a place for espousing personal opinion.  And, since the Debate forum no longer exists for this purpose, this one is locked.


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