# Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time



## Sephiroth (Aug 30, 2005)

First of all what do you people think of the Wheel of Time. Personally I think its one of the best series' I've read, even though the later books do drag on a bit.
ANd what do you think of the way the critics have said that Jordan is taking over from Tolkein. 
"with the wheel of time, jordan has come to dominate the world that tolkein began to reveal"
what are your thoughts, if you have any.


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## blademasterzzz (Aug 30, 2005)

Looooooooooooooooooooooong, fairly boring and monotonous. Not too bad, I suppose, but it's not great fantasy.


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## Hurley (Aug 31, 2005)

This is a series which has an extremely powerful start and only weakened as it progressed.  I ended up purchasing the 10th book just because I already had the others, and never bothered finishing it.  Too many characters, too many side plots, and too many books shattered what could have been a fantastic series.


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## evidently okay (Aug 31, 2005)

I thought the books were really great at first, but as everyone else is pointing out they slow down the farther you get.  I'm still planning to get the next book that comes out, but not until it's in soft cover!  I don't like how it jumps to so many characters, but he's close to brilliant to be able to carry out all the side plots and stories.


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## Sephiroth (Aug 31, 2005)

Apparently book 11 wraps up a lot of sub plots and gets rid of a lot minor characters.....wether or not it'll be good remains to be seen though i suppose. 
Jordan may as well not have written book 10....it was completely pointless

also, yes reality is awful for young people, because of the actions of the older generations....but this not the topic for such discussion


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## Farror (Aug 31, 2005)

Starrwriter, that's a ridiculous exageration. Reading any book can be construed as a form of escapism, as it's no longer your life. (This is excluding books on self-improvement etc.)

To be concerned with "fascination with fantasy fiction". Hehe... Not my idea of something worth worrying about As for the fascination with ultra-violence, that's a myth created by media. Youth violence has gone down, not up. The current generation has the lowest violent crime rate in recorded history.


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## Aremthis (Aug 31, 2005)

the older ones where (1-5) 6 was Ok, but at 7 I stopped reading, however I know I should keep going on.


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## MiloDaePesdan (Sep 1, 2005)

The mere length of the series has stopped me time and again from even thinking of reading them.

Does Jordan leave the endings in cliffhangers?


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## Farror (Sep 1, 2005)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm


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## Sephiroth (Oct 29, 2005)

So has anyone read knife of dreams yet? I just finished it there, its the best book Jordan has released since Lord of Chaos, and its almost as action packed as the first three books of the series....Looking forward to the final book, which I beleive has the working title "A Memory of Light"


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## Talia_Brie (Oct 30, 2005)

I'm reading it now.

Don't spoil it for me.;-)


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## Kimahri (Nov 1, 2005)

Yep I have a hundred pages left and I agree.  By far it is the best since LoC.  Good stuff

kimahri


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## Farror (Nov 1, 2005)

It is the best of the series since the fourth book.


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## Rhea (Nov 3, 2005)

I started reading the first book and I thought it was interesting, but then it dragged on and on, and I don't have the patience to read, what, 10 one thousand length books. The Wheel of Time was the first fantasy book I'd read since Narnia, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings - in that order, and I found the similarities to Orcs disturbing...then I found out, apparantly, it's very normal to have Orc-like beings in fantasy books. Which still doesn't really settle with me, but now I think I'm going off topic.

So...it started off pur-retty well, then I noticed loads of similarities with LotR, which I didn't like, and it was very draggy and long, with too many character focuses, so I stopped.


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## Farror (Nov 3, 2005)

So you formed you judgement of the series after not finishing the first book? I would say that trollocs are very different from orcs. Either you didn't understand Jordan's, or Tolkien's descriptions.


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## Sephiroth (Nov 3, 2005)

Rhea said:
			
		

> I started reading the first book and I thought it was interesting, but then it dragged on and on, and I don't have the patience to read, what, 10 one thousand length books. The Wheel of Time was the first fantasy book I'd read since Narnia, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings - in that order, and I found the similarities to Orcs disturbing...then I found out, apparantly, it's very normal to have Orc-like beings in fantasy books. Which still doesn't really settle with me, but now I think I'm going off topic.
> 
> So...it started off pur-retty well, then I noticed loads of similarities with LotR, which I didn't like, and it was very draggy and long, with too many character focuses, so I stopped.




the fist few hundred pages were supposed to remind us of the lord of the rings, Jordan said so himself....trollocs have nothing in common with orcs apart from the fact their both evil, and frankly i think wheel of time is far superior to lord of the rings in terms of scope and vision


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## Farror (Nov 3, 2005)

> wheel of time is far superior to lord of the rings in terms of scope and vision



I wouldn't say that. Very different visions.


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## Sephiroth (Nov 4, 2005)

Maybe I used the word "vision" in the wrong sense....

Both have the idea of good versus evil, but WoT has shades of grey, and not a simple "if you're ugly or not a caucasian you're evil" thing going on. Both also deal with the fact that to achieve the greater good, there is a horrible amount of sacrifice to be made. 
Maybe I used the word "vision" in the wrong sense....


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## epone (Nov 4, 2005)

The Wheel of Time started out with such promise, but then I was young and naive at the time. I aged with the series and slowly became bored with it - too normal and run-of-the-mill, lacking true brutality for such a world, and definitely soul-less. But this is a problem with all fantasy these days. I had to move on to Sci-fi for my fix of realism. If there was little-to-none law enforcement in existence humanity would be morally sick and twisted, not cute and moralistic and fighting the 'good' battle.

I gave up at book eight I think. Has the series concluded yet? Is it safe to leave the house? And why do book makers change the jacket design halfway through a series? Looks really crap on a book shelf when that happens...


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## epone (Nov 4, 2005)

I forgot to mention Tolkien - also over rated. Okay if you have no concept of humanity, but immature if you have. Sorry but dead people die and stay dead for a reason...


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## blademasterzzz (Nov 5, 2005)

Try George R R Martin. I think you might really like it. He loves slaughtering off main characters for good. Loads of grey, no "evil" or "good".


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## epone (Nov 5, 2005)

Thanks for the tip - never read any of his work before. I like it when main character's die, feels more real, more believable... plus I like the mess death makes - especially to a plot.


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## Raistlin (Dec 11, 2005)

This series really started off great.  I remember purchasing Eye of the World and thinking, I need to get the rest!  So that's exactaly what I did, I bought every single book in the series, and I really regret doing that.  Of course I always have to finish a series once I start it, and would end up buying them anyway, but it will still extrememly drawn out and boring most of the time.


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## Rhea (Dec 12, 2005)

Farror said:
			
		

> So you formed you judgement of the series after not finishing the first book?


 
Actually, I read the first three and half books. Or maybe the first four and a half. I can't remember. But it was _soo_ draggy...I liked Rand al-Thor, and I think Evelyn and Nynaeve they were called, but there were other characters I wasn't very interested in but had whole chapters to them, and it was _really_ slow, so then I stopped.


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## Farror (Dec 12, 2005)

I'd be more inclined to blame this on short attention span then bad writing.


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## Kimahri (Dec 12, 2005)

I think most people who have read the series would say that the first 3 books were actually the fastest paced of the whole series.  I thought they were the best but Knife of Dreams was excellent and fast paced as well.

kimahri


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## Farror (Dec 12, 2005)

True enough.


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## Rhea (Dec 13, 2005)

I never said his writing was bad. It's just too slow for me.


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## eleda (Dec 13, 2005)

Ditto most of the opinions on this thread. Jordan could have finished the series with book six. I read up to book 8, and still felt it was too drawn. I love the characters and the plots. Jordan is right up there as being one of the best fantasy writers I've ever read. Try Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant trilogy--it's superb.


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## jk7070436 (Dec 13, 2005)

I didn't read all of the books, not even one. I tried to read the first, but there just seemed to be too much description, much too draggy for my taste. But I've been known to be a rather picky reader, so... yeah.


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## Walker Pierce (Dec 14, 2005)

I think Robert Jordan's writing abilities are legendary--to say the least--but I have to agree with Rhea that it was drawn out.

Of course, I've only read the first...two books, almost halfway through the third, but it seems a bit stretched. I am, of course, going to finish, but, despite the quality of the work and the massive plot and setting, it is a tad over the line on stretch for my own taste.


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## Sephiroth (Dec 15, 2005)

I really like the Wheel of Time, but I do agree with everyone that its too stretched....I mean, book 10 was completly pointless and could have been covered in one or two chapters


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## Iholly (Jan 3, 2006)

I got through book 6 or so. Each book had a good opening and a good conclusion but the 10,000 pages in between were useless most of the time in my opinion. Plus the characters weren't as good as they could be in my opinion.

I'm new, don't know if there has been a post about this in the past. But anyone read both "Wheel of Time" and "Sword of Truth". What's going on there? Seems like the same author with different psuedonyms writing the same story if I didn't know better.


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## Kimahri (Jan 11, 2006)

I think Goodkind and Jordan are entirely different writers and their stories are from each other.  I personally think that Goodkind does not meet the scale of Jordan's writing ability.  Their styles are very different but I do think that both their series were better in the beginning and have been drug out.  However Knife of Dreams, I think, rekindled the fire of the Wheel of Time series.

Kimahri


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## Roberto 14 (Jan 12, 2006)

I agree with most of the opinions posted here. The Wheel of Time series, for me, was an refreshing new fantasy approach, unlike the normal fantasy genre stories. Most fantasy novels since Tolkien have seemed variants of the same story, and not many managed to create a whole new world for themselves in the manner of Tolkien. Christopher Paolini made a good effort in trying something different himself, but his imagination didn't stretch far enough to create enough new concepts.
Robert Jordan created a whole new world of places, histories, evil beings, and even a world of dreams, which no other fantasy writer has managed since Tolkien. Jordan's world shows new concepts which will doubtless be 'borrowed' by other fantasy writers in the near future. For example, the concept of "Breaking of the World" by Aes Sedai gone mad by the Dark One's taint. The concept of heroes saving the world from Shadow turning villains destroying the world as it is known is something never before explored by fantasy writers.
Wheel of Time has been criticised for the length of the series, and I do agree with that. However, it must be said that Jordan probably wanted to develop the side plots and explore the history and minds of the principle characters and people. As a result, the series seemed to drag from Book 6-10, with some  events in between triggering interest to pursue the reading.
However, Knife of Dreams - the latest offering, changes all that. It is written with a pace remniscint of the few books which moved really quickly. The one criticism that can be fairly levelled against it is it's length. Despite the fast pace of the book, and my tremendous reading speed, it took me five days to finish reading the book. I'd still advise reading it, for Jordan handles this book masterfully.
In anticipation of the last book in this very long series.


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## scott777ab777 (Jan 13, 2006)

*I love the series*

I love the series, and yes it is very long in FLAVOR TEXT. 

I currently am following four series of books.

Laurell K Hamiltons's  Anita Blake Vampire Hunter Series 
( 14 Books 2 of which come out this year )

Raymond E Feist  All the books Dealing with Midkemia. 
( 19 Books with 4 more planed for the same world.)

The Harry Potter Series ( Snape needs to DIE! )

And of Course
The Wheel of Time

I guess you can tell I like Series Novels a lot.


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## WriteStuff (Apr 19, 2007)

Personally, I think that the Wheel of Time is the best fantasy series of all time.  Robert Jordan is my hero.  I do agree that the later books dragged on a lot.  I'm rereading them in preparation for "A Memory of Light" and I realized how much I forgot since the beginning.  Jordan is a genius on par with Einstein to keep so many plots and characters straight and just the reality of his world is amazing.  After Lord of Chaos it got really confusing and boring.  The only good part between Lord of Chaos and Knife of Dreams, is the last chapter of Winter's Heart when Rand cleanses _saidin_.  That was some of Jordan's best writing in terms of pacing and suspense.  Knife of Dreams is by far the best book since Lord of Chaos, and I think that Fires of Heaven is much too drawn out.

I think that Jordan has surpassed Tolkien, but Tolkien will always be a classic because he came up with a lot of the original concepts used today.  I've also read the Sword of Truth (so far) and that, for me, was boring after reading WoT.  Terry Goodkind drew it out way too much.  Pillars of Creation was worthless, and Naked Empire, while good, didn't advance the plot at all.  The last one, Phantom, was awesome, as was Wizard's First Rule and Faith of the Fallen.  Temple of the Winds (#4) was great because the climax was about 200 pages long.  Then of course, everyone was let down by the 3 pages (count 'em) of climax in Soul of the Fire.  I'd still recommend it but, the world seems shallow compared to WoT.

Roberto, I hate to say this, but all fantasy (including Tolkien, sorry) is derivative of medieval romance.  Paolini, in fact, is getting slammed because his work is so derivative, some say he plagiarized.  About the Breaking of the World, that's old.  David Eddings came up with that in the '80's.  Read The Belgariad to find out about the God Torak cracking the world with the Orb of Aldur.  (BTW, once you read the first 100 pages, you won't want to stop.  Eddings has that same sense of reality as Jordan, or vice versa rather.)  In fact, if you want to stretch it a little, Tolkien had his own "breaking of the world" when Numenor was destroyed by the Valar.  (Read Akallabeth in "The Simarillion".)

My final thought: Jordan is awesome; no matter how the last book turns out, I'm still going to love his writing.  (And cut the guy some slack, he's dying and it's uncertain whether he'll live to finish the last book.)


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## Rahvin (Apr 24, 2007)

The Wheel of Time is one of the best written fantasy series I have read. The pacing may suck a little in the later books (especially 10), but that's more a result of the plethora of characters that he has introduced. In book 10 (I forget the title) he had to devote a thousand pages to explain what was going on with all the other charcters, because he stuck with one or two in 9 and made something happen. It might be a bit annoying, but it gives the whole series a sense of realism. I have read other books that are as well written as Jordan (but not many), and all of them fail to bring such an epic world so vividly to life.

I just want the last book (he says he is going to finish the story in book 12, even if it takes him two thousand pages in hardback...).


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## archer88iv (Apr 25, 2007)

In reading longer works, I find I tend to skim. Lots. And lots. And lots. As much as I love Tolkien, I doubt very seriously I've ever actually read _Lord of the Rings_ cover to cover (thank God for auto-abridge?) and I can promise you I won't ever touch Jordan's series.

Frankly, I don't see paying that much money to skim half of it. My favorite styles are sparse, almost to a fault (well, some would call that sort of writing poetic--but anything poetic is definitely at fault). Probably because I'm wordy. 

Look into _Across the Nightingale Floor_. I don't think the other books in the series (_Tales of the Otori_) achieve quite the same economy of phrase, but the first book (_Across_) packed enough punch that I not only read every word but actually reread most paragraphs.


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## Svalbard (May 5, 2007)

I stopped reading the Wheel of Time after the fifth book. I thought the first three were billiant but I came to the conclusion that Jordan had lost the thread of his story and is just continuing it for the commercial value.

As for, is it the best fantasy series since LOTR, I do not think so. For me that would fall into the realm of two writers, who at least told the reader from the start, how long their series were going to be.

George R.R. Martin's, Game of Thrones and Steven Eriksons, Tales of the Malazan Book of the Fallen are outstanding. I believe they are now the standard that all fantasy should be judged upon.

Tad Williams's, trilogy, Memory,Thorn and Sorrow is also fanatstic.

Jordan should look at these writers and learn how to structure his series.


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