# II.



## Space Cadet (Jun 18, 2017)

smile 
and breath 
in our lessons


free 
in moment
of suggestions


slow down for to listen 
chaos quiet


water’s empty space 
where joy lasts


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## Darren White (Jun 18, 2017)

Wesley,

I am a big fan of your poetry! Have been from the start.
I have always wondered why the poems are numbered. Is there any specific reason other than that perhaps a better title is not yet available?

and:


> smile
> and breathe
> in our lessons


I think?

I am not sure, but it sounds like a very Taoist poem, and that alone is something I really enjoy.


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## sas (Jun 19, 2017)

Too disjointed for me. 
Since you are English speaking, why the odd "for to listen"?


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## -xXx- (Jun 19, 2017)

Space Cadet said:


> slow down for *-* to listen
> chaos quiet


?
essentially sas's observation.
with my inference.


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## Darkkin (Jun 22, 2017)

Space Cadet said:


> smile
> and breath
> in our lessons What lessons?  You have no context whatsoever.  Details can be small, but a little can go a long way.  Who is the we?  And how is the reader supposed to know of the parties involved?  I'm a literal translator, I look to context for clues as to the tone and direction of the piece.  You have none, not good if you want the reader to have some idea of where you're headed and what your point is.
> 
> ...




Overall, as a reader, this feels much more like an incomplete concept than a cohesive poem.  A little bit of logic and a few questions can go a long way in helping to delineate a piece.  The most basic to ask:  Is my meaning clear?  And although each reader will see things from their own perspective, a poem should have enough cohesion for certain element to be clear.  Some obscurity adds to the mystery and wonder of poetry, but too much has a tendency to land one in the brairs.  Flesh this out a bit more and see what you come up with.

- D. the T.


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## Space Cadet (Jun 23, 2017)

Darren White said:


> Wesley,
> 
> I am a big fan of your poetry! Have been from the start.
> I have always wondered why the poems are numbered. Is there any specific reason other than that perhaps a better title is not yet available?
> ...



Harif.  Very Tao ... Breath not Breathe.  Each Breath.   I number them so I don't need to name them.  You know this, my dear.  I love you.  W.

I love your silence.  It's such a Taoist mindset.



Darkkin said:


> Overall, as a reader, this feels much more like an incomplete concept than a cohesive poem.  A little bit of logic and a few questions can go a long way in helping to delineate a piece.  The most basic to ask:  Is my meaning clear?  And although each reader will see things from their own perspective, a poem should have enough cohesion for certain element to be clear.  Some obscurity adds to the mystery and wonder of poetry, but too much has a tendency to land one in the brairs.  Flesh this out a bit more and see what you come up with.
> 
> - D. the T.




Thank you, D. the T.  Cohesion.  This poem has been read with out coherence.  Yes, well, yes..."These are only words...words in the distant head."
      "Yes, walls of threads."
       "Threads...What are those, Sir?"  I had just been briefed on them this afternoon.
       "Smile and breath are in our lessons."



 "Where did the water come from? Also, from a logical standpoint, water as a substance, a compound takes up a lot of space and it is rarely empty. Things like algae and bacteria, even though they cannot be seen are ever present even in the seemingly empty stretches of ocean. And why does it make joy last?"


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## sas (Jun 24, 2017)

Maybe this for last line:

empty space of a breath held
where joy lasts

Thought this might bring the poem full circle to breath, without bringing in a different element like water. Hmmm. sas


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## Space Cadet (Jun 25, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> Overall, as a reader, this feels much more like an incomplete concept than a cohesive poem.  A little bit of logic and a few questions can go a long way in helping to delineate a piece.  The most basic to ask:  Is my meaning clear?  And although each reader will see things from their own perspective, a poem should have enough cohesion for certain element to be clear.  Some obscurity adds to the mystery and wonder of poetry, but too much has a tendency to land one in the brairs.  Flesh this out a bit more and see what you come up with.
> 
> - D. the T.


 
Sorry about my prior post/response.  I had a few beers in me; it was late.  Apologies all around if I was rude.  I'm wasn't trying to, but sometimes sarcasm doesn't come across.  

Possible meaning:

Slow down, smile, breathe, embrace the Unknown, live in the moment, and the chaos of mistakes in that moment becomes lessons...  

Water is too vast to be a metaphor; it's too easy to use the word water as a metaphor in a poem.  Water moves in number of ways, but Taoists do not search for metaphorical meaning in water or nature.  

I wrote this as a kind of mantra that can be read many ways, and it doesn't necessarily have to have meaning for everyone after repeated reads.  I'm not trying to pretend it's something that it's not.  But quietness sans water has always been calming to me...  


The word 'for' is just a silly choice I like, I suppose.  

"If you're lookin' to get silly, you better go back* to from where* you came" -- Dylan
It could just as easily been "go back to where you came".  


smile 
and breath -- (these are the first lessons of the Tao.  Smile and breath in the moment help overcome some of the more unpredictably messy aspects life throws.)


free 
in moment
of suggestions 


slow down for to listen 
chaos quiet --  ("free in moment of suggestions slow down for to listen chaos quiet".  Living in the moment can be rather chaotic, with too many boxes to check.  Let water do the work.)

Thank you again for all your notes and critique.  Wesley


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## Space Cadet (Jun 25, 2017)

I like the idea, yes I do.  It circles around the breath and smile to holding one's breath.  The great vessel within mine own self has just (sorta) spoken to me and said he doesn't have the will to take the bit about the water out but says there needs to be a title.


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## Sebald (Jun 25, 2017)

Are you talking to yourself there, Wesley? It's very soothing, to listen in. My internal machinations sound nothing like that ha ha.


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## Firemajic (Jun 26, 2017)

I agree with DarKKin...  broad statements have no poetic value... get real, stay focused, express yourself with honesty... honest emotions, honest moods... pretty words without concept and/ or meaning are smoke and mirrors, vague, like smog...and completely forgettable ....


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## Space Cadet (Jun 27, 2017)

Space Cadet said:


> I like the idea, yes I do. It circles around the breath and smile to holding one's breath. The great vessel within mine own self has just (sorta) spoken to me and said he doesn't have the will to take the bit about the water out but says there needs to be a title.





Sebald said:


> Are you talking to yourself there, Wesley? It's very soothing, to listen in. My internal machinations sound nothing like that ha ha.





sas said:


> Maybe this for last line:
> 
> empty space of a breath held
> where joy lasts
> ...




Sorry. This was suppose to be a reply to aforementioned post from sas.   

To add, holding breath doesn't sound relaxing, I suppose.   


Thank you for the suggestion/input.  

--Wesley


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## Space Cadet (Jun 27, 2017)

Firemajic said:


> I agree with DarKKin...  broad statements have no poetic value... get real, stay focused, express yourself with honesty... honest emotions, honest moods... pretty words without concept and/ or meaning are smoke and mirrors, vague, like smog...and completely forgettable ....



Poetic value can be determined in much broader statements.  Value, that's an even tougher one to define.  I'd like to politely thank you for the critique.  The focus in this piece is the practice, or search, for understanding, expression, honesty.  It is a very simple collection of words, but a difficult task to grasp.  

Thank you again for your feedback.  -- Wesley


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## Space Cadet (Jun 29, 2017)

Firemajic said:


> I agree with DarKKin...  broad statements have no poetic value... get real, stay focused, express yourself with honesty... honest emotions, honest moods... pretty words without concept and/ or meaning are smoke and mirrors, vague, like smog...and completely forgettable ....





Darkkin said:


> Overall, as a reader, this feels much more like an incomplete concept than a cohesive poem.  A little bit of logic and a few questions can go a long way in helping to delineate a piece.  The most basic to ask:  Is my meaning clear?  And although each reader will see things from their own perspective, a poem should have enough cohesion for certain element to be clear.  Some obscurity adds to the mystery and wonder of poetry, but too much has a tendency to land one in the brairs.  Flesh this out a bit more and see what you come up with.
> 
> - D. the T.




The definition of poetic value is quite interesting to discuss, especially the instrumental and intrinsic value.  Perhaps I'm getting in over my head here.  Perhaps a title for the poem would make it less esoteric.


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