# Stories in the Age of Covid



## luckyscars (Jun 30, 2020)

*Not a discussion regarding Coronavirus itself nor any of its politics. Srsly.*

Just wrapping up a draft of a new novel. It is mostly set in a present day American office and while it's not *about* office culture it has some satirical elements of that.

Only when completing it did I realize that I had completely overlooked the fact that I had not incorporated anything relating to the new normal as far as coronavirus. Besides the fact the office is clearly open, there is no social distancing, it's hundreds of people at a desk and otherwise mingling like it's 2019. They go to bars, to restaurants, etc. It's the 'normal' world. Or the 'world that was'.

I'm not interested in incorporating Covid stuff at all, I find it dull and depressing and I'm sure there's a thousand books being written by now about pandemics. But I AM interested in keeping a contemporary setting vividly relatable. I want something, at least something that is not set in the past, to connect with a reader, to mirror 'real life'. I think up until now I've largely ignored Coronavirus because (1) It seems highly reactionary to include something that's only existed for a few months and (2) I (and most people, I think?) have kind of assumed this isn't going to be around for long enough to fundamentally and permanently change the landscape.

But, being that it increasingly appears that Coronavirus related measures, if not the disease itself, will be around for a long term, I'm sort of wondering if that's a mistake?  If we are going to be social distancing for say the next one, two, ten, one hundred years, I assume things like offices will be adapting to that (I know some that already are in the process) and that those adaptions will be pretty permanent and so this is going to have an enduring effect on stuff. Enough that maybe the 'traditional workplace' really is gone forever, along with 'traditional' restaurants, bars, brothels, whatever.

So, I guess the question is, do you think it's time yet to start to think about this stuff across not just certain stories but pretty much _all _of them? For instance, is the idea of a modern romance novel that consists of (rational) people just hooking up casually going to be seen as something more far fetched than in the past? At what point should we accept the current 'situation' as being somewhat permanent in terms of storytelling and start to reevaluate the way we think of the world through writing?


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## Bayview (Jul 1, 2020)

I've been finding myself more interested in writing SF/F these days, and I think a lot of that impetus is coming from not wanting to wrestle with the problem you describe. So... I have no answer! Only sympathy.


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## luckyscars (Jul 1, 2020)

Bayview said:


> I've been finding myself more interested in writing SF/F these days, and I think a lot of that impetus is coming from not wanting to wrestle with the problem you describe. So... I have no answer! Only sympathy.



Thanks but not so much needing sympathy just yet! I just wonder whether, if the real world continues to be so inhospitable to most form of social interaction between strangers, which seems to be likely, we will enter a situation where almost every story will either need to be speculative or historical at least with regard to setting?

Like, I'm still reading new stories that include scenes at parties, weddings, etc. and it's like...how long before people lose a sense of what these things actually are to the point they will need to be described less like an everyday aspect of life and more like a medieval joust or Roman bathhouse or something else similarly disassociated from "real life".


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## Wannabewriter (Jul 1, 2020)

I wouldn't let it stop you from writing you want to write and what you thinks work best for your novel, personally. This isn't going to be around forever and importantly we as consumers also won't want to only consume things about the 'new normal'.


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## Bayview (Jul 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> Back in the mid 1980's there was a lot of stuff going on about the new disease which is going to kill a lot of us and our loved ones.  Big names like John Hurt even made scary videos on the same to try and warn people of the impending doom before us and we must wear protection.  At this time they weren't 100% if by only swapping bodily fluids was the only way of transmission.



People are still having sex, sure, but at least in my genre, most sex scenes include mention of a condom. It's not a complete revolution of human behaviour, but it's an extra detail that didn't used to be there.


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## Taylor (Jul 1, 2020)

That is a really good question!  Will people crave to escape this new normal and read about the gold old days when we were free to do as we pleased?  Or will there be a sudden demand for current stories that incorporate the new normal?  

If it were me, and I was that far in, I would lean towards adding something that indicates the timeframe.  Like at the end they went out for new years eve and looked up just in time to see the 2020 flashing in neon.  I mean that's pretty obvious...lol...but you know what I mean.

After that, perhaps start a new story or even a sequel that begins in January 2020.  What a great time to set a story! You've even got me inspired now....


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## Taylor (Jul 1, 2020)

Bayview said:


> People are still having sex, sure, but at least in my genre, most sex scenes include mention of a condom. It's not a complete revolution of human behaviour, but it's an extra detail that didn't used to be there.



What a good point!  I had never thought of that before.  But yes, most current stories, if there is a sudden romantic tryst, we should include the condom.  If you didn't, do you think readers/viewers would have a different attitude about your characters?


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## noisebloom (Jul 1, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> So, I guess the question is, do you think it's time yet to start to think about this stuff across not just certain stories but pretty much _all _of them? For instance, is the idea of a modern romance novel that consists of (rational) people just hooking up casually going to be seen as something more far fetched than in the past? At what point should we accept the current 'situation' as being somewhat permanent in terms of storytelling and start to reevaluate the way we think of the world through writing?



This is extremely difficult to answer, because it requires predicting the future. However, it's safe to say that almost any written novel is going to be antiquated _at some point_, because the world _changes _without restraint.

If you are shooting for, say, relevance in the next 10 years, I can't imagine the omission of social-distancing/COVID measures would have much of a negative effect, because your novel would be a large pool of other novels that also omitted these new realities. However, if you want to remain relevant in the next 50 years, I would imagine there would be several non-COVID aspects that would probably be considered deprecated by then...


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## Bayview (Jul 1, 2020)

Taylor said:


> What a good point!  I had never thought of that before.  But yes, most current stories, if there is a sudden romantic tryst, we should include the condom.  If you didn't, do you think readers/viewers would have a different attitude about your characters?



It's actually quite a discussed point in Romance-reader circles. The general consensus seems to be that condom-less sex can be a step along a couple's path to true intimacy, or can be a sign that the character is reckless and living life dangerously. It's almost always remarked upon, one way or another.


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## luckyscars (Jul 1, 2020)

Biro said:


> I understand exactly what you say Bayview and I cant really talk of anywhere but where I live and read the news.  But the days of sex with mostly condoms are over according to 'news reports'.  This is because there is a surge in over 50's and 60's getting sexually transmitted diseases.
> 
> I suppose they just follow what the younger folk do all be it a few years later and swinging and casual sex via the internet is now a pastime of the wrinklies and coffin dodgers as well it seems.
> 
> ...



Condoms don't affect society in any wholesale sense, though. I see what you're trying to do with that comparison but it doesn't make sense to me. I have written sex scenes before and whether or not there is a condom involved usually isn't very important. Usually you don't even have to mention it, unless you are being very graphic in description (ew) or the use/non-use of the condom is somehow important to the story. It's not like they changed the act itself, just added a small detail. 

On the other hand, how are we supposed to write a story set in contemporary New York City which features the NYE ball drop in Times Square when, pretty soon, that may itself be a thing of the past? We're talking about the wholesale changes to OR straight elimination of entire pieces of culture -- from movie theaters to sports events to parties. How many stories are set in high schools? Loads. Well what about if the high schools can't open anymore and the kids have to do distance learning? Those stories will immediately become either historical or fantasy fiction or both. 



Taylor said:


> If it were me, and I was that far in, I would lean towards adding something that indicates the timeframe.  Like at the end they went out for new years eve and looked up just in time to see the 2020 flashing in neon.  I mean that's pretty obvious...lol...but you know what I mean.



That may be a good fix for right now, but I'm kind of thinking more long term. Like, does anybody remember life before smart phones? Life before computers? Probably not that many people these days and, if they do, it's getting hazy. The human brain has a great tendency to forget 'life as it used to be' and new generations sure won't know.

So we could potentially be looking at a situation like that for, say, going to the bar. I know that probably sounds extreme *right now* but I'm not sure that it is. Which means we are going to either reflect the new normal or go full-blown into fantasy/speculative/historical setting mode.



noisebloom said:


> This is extremely difficult to answer, because it requires predicting the future. However, it's safe to say that almost any written novel is going to be antiquated _at some point_, because the world _changes _without restraint.
> 
> If you are shooting for, say, relevance in the next 10 years, I can't imagine the omission of social-distancing/COVID measures would have much of a negative effect, because your novel would be a large pool of other novels that also omitted these new realities. However, if you want to remain relevant in the next 50 years, I would imagine there would be several non-COVID aspects that would probably be considered deprecated by then...



True, but I think it's a little different. For one thing, the world doesn't change in _every_ respect that much and certainly not in the span of five or ten years. I mean, pubs have been a thing for millenia now. Neanderthals probably had parties and social gatherings. People have been going to work pretty much the same way for a century or more. Yeah, point taken, the world does change and ultimately we do adjust, but I think it gets a lot more disruptive and difficult to adjust _to_ when we talk about the elimination of church bake sales within the span of the year & possibly never for such things to properly return.


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## Taylor (Jul 1, 2020)

Bayview said:


> It's actually quite a discussed point in Romance-reader circles. The general consensus seems to be that condom-less sex can be a step along a couple's path to true intimacy, or can be a sign that the character is reckless and living life dangerously. It's almost always remarked upon, one way or another.



That is so fascinating!  A simple remark about a condom, and you have created complexity in your characterization.  I'll remember that. Thanks!


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## Taylor (Jul 1, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> That may be a good fix for right now, but I'm kind of thinking more long term. Like, does anybody remember life before smart phones? Life before computers? Probably not that many people these days and, if they do, it's getting hazy. The human brain has a great tendency to forget 'life as it used to be' and new generations sure won't know.
> 
> So we could potentially be looking at a situation like that for, say, going to the bar. I know that probably sounds extreme *right now* but I'm not sure that it is. Which means we are going to either reflect the new normal or go full-blown into fantasy/speculative/historical setting mode.



Lucky, you make such an interesting point.  And it's got me thinking and wondering if this is a rare moment in history, where things actually got worse and never returned to a better state.  I grew up watching Happy Days.    All I can remember as kid is how much I preferred the way things are now.  And in my lifetime/culture, things always seemed to get better in some way.  Better technology, better medicine, better food, better parks, better cars, better appliances, better everything.  Will we see the new norm as better in movies, books and theatre?


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## noisebloom (Jul 1, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> True, but I think it's a little different. For one thing, the world doesn't change in _every_ respect that much and certainly not in the span of five or ten years. I mean, pubs have been a thing for millenia now. Neanderthals probably had parties and social gatherings. People have been going to work pretty much the same way for a century or more. Yeah, point taken, the world does change and ultimately we do adjust, but I think it gets a lot more disruptive and difficult to adjust _to_ when we talk about the elimination of church bake sales within the span of the year & possibly never for such things to properly return.



The rate of technological improvement is exponential, so I believe that things are going to change _very _quickly from here on out in many non-COVID respects as more of a reaction to technological revolution. Virtualizing everyday life and work will become trivial and potentially the norm. This may just be me with my tinfoil hat snug on my head, but I think the "reality" depicted in most everyone's novels today is going to be very different than what reality becomes in the next half century.


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## luckyscars (Jul 1, 2020)

Taylor said:


> Lucky, you make such an interesting point.  And it's got me thinking and wondering if this is a rare moment in history, where things actually got worse and never returned to a better state.  I grew up watching Happy Days.    All I can remember as kid is how much I preferred the way things are now.  And in my lifetime/culture, things always seemed to get better in some way.  Better technology, better medicine, better food, better parks, better cars, better appliances, better everything.  Will we see the new norm as better in movies, books and theatre?



I can't imagine (right now) how it will seem better but it's hard to look at things clearly when you're in the middle of them, I guess. I'm sure people said similar things during the Spanish Flu pandemic in 1918 and probably with just about every major war also. The only reason _that _situation does not seem directly comparable to me is because the world was different then. We are (or were) in a far more global economy with a lot more amenities that are affected. There weren't really theme parks, movie theaters, etc. back then -- even things like offices and schools were largely smaller and less 'sociable', so our concept of 'normal' was very different. 

I think the key issue I am trying to push at is that I don't know how many other writers on here have even begun to consider how seismic the shift and the impact to 'realism' this might be -- and maybe they should. 

That crime story where the villain picks up the prostitute at the bar and murders her? Possibly not going to happen, if there are no bars and prostitution is less commonplace due to health concerns. That scene where Audrey stands up Deacon at the altar? The wedding may well be entirely different. Dating? Probably very different. Job interviews? Probably entirely different. A kid going to the mall or a skatepark or a playground with some school friends? Not so fast, buddy, _responsible parents don't do that!_

 What about the kinds of jobs people do in stories? My go-to for a character who was kind of a slacker was to have them wait tables or be a golf caddy or something, but how rare will these jobs be this time next year? In the 'new normal' a scene which would seem to be just an everyday slice of life will likely not reflect that in many peoples' consciousness for too much longer. It will become historical, like riding a horse or pumping gas. I feel as though I can pretty much find a million examples of newly-fantastical scenes now in anything I read that purports to be set 'currently'. 

It's all pure speculation, obviously. I guess I was just thinking how it's weird this hasn't been talked about much.


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## Cephus (Jul 1, 2020)

I don't write a damn thing in the real world so it doesn't matter. Covid will never exist in any of my stories.


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## TL Murphy (Jul 1, 2020)

Don't get to cozy with the new normal. When climate change hits us next year or in ten years, it's going to be... well... different.


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## luckyscars (Jul 2, 2020)

Cephus said:


> I don't write a damn thing in the real world so it doesn't matter. Covid will never exist in any of my stories.



But you do occasionally write things related to the real world, I expect?

See, that's the thing as well. It wouldn't even have to extend to scenes set in the real world (though those, I imagine, would be the first casualties) but the vagaries of human (or humanlike) behavior.

Example: Shaking hands. Everybody does that, even on a spaceship I guess. If that starts to fade as a routine greeting, we will eventually have to start precluding it from fictionalized routine greetings, presumably.

Doesn't sound like much, but multiply that by the countless forms of things that people do, and we may be -- _may be -- _looking at much of what we now call human behavior going extinct. 

The other poster postulated we will adapt, and of course we will somehow, but adaption isn't always easy. How many of us are used to writing a romantic scene, or even a fight scene, without proximity?



Biro said:


> LS I think if real life is as depressing as you imagine it would be with this virus from now on.  Then I don't think anyone will want to read anything related to it anyway.  They will prefer fantasy and historical.  Anything but what is actually going on.



Plenty of people despise fantasy and historical fiction isn't always good for exploring contemporary themes. Some people don't like speculative fiction at all. I don't think real life being depressing will necessarily make a difference to that. I don't see the logic. People don't just need escapism.


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## bdcharles (Jul 2, 2020)

I think it would be a hefty challenge, and in part is why I write SFF - because keeping up with real world events is often more than I can manage. I think there is some scope to incorporate the various new normals into a story artfully though. The arrival of a virus could form a useful turning point in your story.

There was a handy thread about all this a while ago, here...


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## bdcharles (Jul 2, 2020)

Cephus said:


> I don't write a damn thing in the real world so it doesn't matter. Covid will never exist in any of my stories.



I am the same, though I do find large events like this often make me wish I included more plagues and other real world inspiration in my SFF. 

I did have a populist, charismatic, and dangerous leader before they were cool though.


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## dither (Jul 2, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> disassociated from "real life".



With all due respect luckyscars, your novel your call and it is a quandary.
I get the points about fantasy and escapism, and maybe, at the end of the day, I don't know... How much of an  impact, if any,  might such an omission have on your novel?


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## SueC (Jul 2, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> So, I guess the question is, do you think it's time yet to start to think about this stuff across not just certain stories but pretty much _all _of them? For instance, is the idea of a modern romance novel that consists of (rational) people just hooking up casually going to be seen as something more far fetched than in the past? At what point should we accept the current 'situation' as being somewhat permanent in terms of storytelling and start to reevaluate the way we think of the world through writing?



I have had this exact thought, myself, LS. Ever since they started saying that handshakes would soon become an extinct form of greeting for most men and women, especially in a professional setting, but also in casual acquaintances, I have seen things through different eyes. I mean you could still write about people being close, but it would probably have to be set in pre-Covid for it to have any significance in a real world. 

When you think of all the life-pattern changes that have occurred in the last couple of months, that are complete opposite of what has been engendered as a healthy life style, it is mind-blowing. Social distancing both in and outside of homes, for example. You know those scenes in moves of wealthy homes, with dinning room tables the size of football fields, and one person at each end? It was funny before, but maybe becoming the norm and less funny. And as writers, especially those who do write of the real world, we need to be cognizant of how the normal activity of people has changed and may even become habitual.

The "elbow bump," now seen as relevant as the former hand shake, would become a standard if we created a scenario where that was utilized. People don't meet in bars anymore, because its hard to get intimate with some sitting six feet away, and bars are in the open/close status all over. Personally, I think it's important to pay attention to these things. Will the concept of social distancing bring us back to an era where we barely knew neighbors, did not reach out to help others we didn't know, no longer helped that old lady across the street?

And don't even get me started on hugging! The standard greet of hello and farewell for women everywhere. I haven't hugged my own daughters in months. 

Great question; great discussion, Lucky. Thanks!


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## luckyscars (Jul 2, 2020)

SueC said:


> I mean you could still write about people being close, but it would probably have to be set in pre-Covid for it to have any significance in a real world.



This is where I think I may get a few eye-rolls, but I suspect even including it in the context of 'pre-covid' won't work if people reading it 'post-covid' cannot empathize or easily imagine what these things mean anymore.

I would postulate the future state of casual intimacy as possibly becoming closer to some barbaric old tradition now. You know, something like polygamy or slavery or burning people for witchcraft. These things used to be understandable. They used to be normal. They weren't barbaric or bizarre but backed by the highest forms of intellect. They still are recognizable as a curiosity of the past -- we know what these acts entailed and the reasoning -- but when we talk about the idea of such things as _normal, _to the point the reader can empathize with it, I think there are some things that have most definitely been lost over the years and it's possible that could be the fate of 'normal human social behavior' as well. 

Like, we're a much less religious society now so when we read about people losing their minds over the idea of a Tudor queen not being a Protestant that concept means nothing except 'oh those silly Tudors'. We cannot build drama over that simple fact easily, because it's not a problem we recognize anymore, it's not relatable.

Likewise, I can imagine it being the case that in the future the idea of strangers actually eating together at a dinner table will be seen less as 'oh that's quaint! remember when we used to do that?' and more a case of 'JEEZ THESE PEOPLE ARE BACKWARD AND DISGUSTING AND WHY THE HELL ARE THEY?'. So the entire point of that story, or that dinner table scene, is odd to the point of distraction and we can't use it in a story that makes sense to a reader in 2042 or whatever, because by then it will truly be a distant, dying memory.

Bit tinfoil hat, I know, but that's the extreme end. Best case scenario, dating becomes primarily virtual and I need to incorporate masks and plastic sneeze-screens in my fictional office.

(the flip side is, if somehow this ends up being resolved within a year or two and is strictly a short term thing with no lasting impact, these stories set with 'the new normal' are going to come across unrealistic in the other direction)


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## ppsage (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm trying to remember if characters in Asian cultures in the Gibson-esque sf of 80's and 90's wore masks? Anyway, novels set in Hong Kong or Tokyo could have very realistically done so. We do have examples of cultures which have for a good while taken more seriously routine measures against respiratory infection in general. Also, since WWII we're been getting increasingly regular zoonotic transmissions and, though so far only two have become pandemic, I think this concern will emerge more into routine public consciousness. My notion is that Covid 19 will leave some cultural marks but the ones left by the idea of needing to regularly endure pandemics will be greater.


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## Irwin (Jul 2, 2020)

Since I almost never leave the house these days, there's no inspiration from real life. I don't even go to the park.


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## luckyscars (Jul 2, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Since I almost never leave the house these days, there's no inspiration from real life. I don't even go to the park.



So what kind of things do you write about?


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## Irwin (Jul 2, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> So what kind of things do you write about?



Political issues, but that gets old. And depressing. I'm more interested in social issues, which is why I need personal experiences. You can only get so much from reading about things going on; you need to actually be involved to some extent for details and insight.


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## Theglasshouse (Jul 3, 2020)

There are personal news stories. I read them from time to time if I think it will inspire me. Newspapers can publish some very good ones. I read one today.


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## Taylor (Jul 3, 2020)

Biro said:


> Irwin I'm lost.  How can you write about things that you only ever gain knowledge of from the internet which is heavily censored? The news media channels very much so.  Or do I misunderstand?





Irwin said:


> Political issues, but that gets old. And depressing. I'm more interested in social issues, which is why I need personal experiences. You can only get so much from reading about things going on; you need to actually be involved to some extent for details and insight.



Undoubtedly, First hand experience is the best.  However, I have been amazed at how much I can find on the internet.  I don't just limit myself to news articles.  I also find reports and academic papers that are referenced in articles.  I also use YouTube a lot.  I am amazed if you type in a subject, you get all kinds of professionals sharing their expertise.   

I would be interested to learn more about how others research their books.  Interviews?  Public records?  What do others do?


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## Taylor (Jul 3, 2020)

Biro said:


> My stories are events which I turn into a story.  Similar to a Roald Dahl type of thing.  There always has to be a twist or shocker at the end.
> 
> I have had to research very little and that was really timelines.



I am always impressed with writers who can add a twist at the end.  Perhaps one of the hardest things to do, and make it look natural. 

How do you come up with the twist?  Do you try out a number of different ideas first?

What technique did you use to research timelines?


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## Xander416 (Jul 3, 2020)

Wannabewriter said:


> I wouldn't let it stop you from writing you want to write and what you thinks work best for your novel, personally. This isn't going to be around forever and importantly we as consumers also won't want to only consume things about the 'new normal'.


Yeah, this is basically my opinion. COVID holds no relevance within the plots of anything I'm working on, so I'm not even going to bother with it.


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## Theglasshouse (Jul 3, 2020)

The virus subgenre has been around for a while now before covid. I don't know who wrote what just that ocassionally I would encounter in the past a story about a virus being in the water supply. Or being elaborated with a homemade chemical laboratory kit. IMO it can be compelling.


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## Taylor (Jul 3, 2020)

Biro said:


> So back to this topic.  If I were to write in present day PC land.  I simply couldn't do it without upsetting the apple cart.  I don't enjoy this type of perfection and have never met anyone like that in real life so my stories mainly happen in other times and with less perfect people.  My stories would be in the land of were people could communicate with each other by hate or by affection and not how we are supposed to behave but more how people do behave.  The ones I have known anyway.



I'm curious know what "type of perfection" you are referring to.   Personally, I stop reading if the characters are too perfect.  But, why do think you cannot write about imperfect people in a real-life PC setting?


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## Taylor (Jul 3, 2020)

Biro said:


> The perfection of a pc world and you must write about imperfect people, because they may be the only ones of any interest in a pc world.
> 
> Luckyscars raises the issue of the virus affecting story lines.  It will and for many years to come yet.  As I said early it may be a couple of years or more before enough vaccines are produced if we found one tomorrow morning.
> 
> ...



Yes, I see what you mean now.  But not sure I agree, that only those who throw caution to the wind will be interesting.  I think stories will be the same stories, only people will act slightly different.  Perhaps like an earlier conversation about condoms.  The mere mention of them, is characterization.  They don't use it because they are getting more serious, or they don't use it and are being reckless, or they just use it, so we know they are being responsible.    

Perhaps new lovers will inquire:  "Do you have antibodies?"  "Yes, I've already had it, last year in the fall." "Yes, me too...we should be ok."

It will just become part of normal dialogue.  It reminds me of when I was in the grocery store last week.  A young woman, about eighteen years old, was a store clerk.  She was explaining to another staff member what she was doing.  "We have to move these over to aisle six, because of Covid."  She said it with a smile on her face and as if it was the most normal thing in the world.  Like: "We have to move these over to aisle six because of Mother's Day."

Fortunately for me, I'm writing a series that all takes place before Covid.  But I don't think we will be able to use B.C.  Hmmm...


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## luckyscars (Jul 3, 2020)

Xander416 said:


> Yeah, this is basically my opinion. COVID holds no relevance within the plots of anything I'm working on, so I'm not even going to bother with it.





Theglasshouse said:


> The virus subgenre has been around for a while now before covid. I don't who wrote what just that ocassionally I would encounter in the past a story about a virus being in the water supply. Or being elaborated with a homemade chemical laboratory kit. IMO it can be compelling.



So I'm really not talking about virus-themed stories. I mean, they would be included by default, but I'm mostly interested in other forms of writing.

Here's a little snippet from Helen Fielding's Bridget Jones's Diary for the purposes of illustration. I picked this book just because it's one with lots of free excerpts available and also a book written in relatively modern times (late nineties I believe) portraying 'typical life' in which there are lots of scenes that I can't see making sense anymore. This is a fairly commonplace type of passage from that book:



> _State of emergency. Jude just rang up from her portable phone in flood of tears, and eventually managed to explain, in a sheep's voice, that she had just had to excuse herself from a board meeting (Jude is Head of Futures at Brightlings) as she was about to burst into tears and was now trapped in the ladies' with Alice Cooper eyes and no makeup bag. Her boyfriend, Vile Richard (self-indulgent commitment phobic), whom she has been seeing on and off for eighteen months, had chucked her for asking him if he wanted to come on holiday with her. Typical, but Jude naturally was blaming it all on herself._



In the above, which is obviously very short and forms just a tiny crumb of the kind of scene that appears again and again, there are three 'commonplace' things that stick out immediately which, I suspect, will no longer be very recognizable:

- Board meetings - these are deeply hazardous when in-person and will probably be mostly online from now on (that was already a trend and will surely be accelerated)
- Sexual 'on again off again' type relationships, obviously that is wide open to contamination and will be increasingly frowned upon -- which, being that such relationships are a stable of many romances (not just Romance novels) basically cancels (or makes difficult, anyway) a well-loved trope...
- Going on holiday -- this will probably still exist in some form (god I hope so!) but probably a lot less often than in the past/something that people do less with partners they are not committed to.

Not saying the above would cease making sense immediately, but anybody reading that in 2020 probably already senses the sort of lifestyle being described as belonging more to the past than the present. 

I know I do. I haven't interacted with more than two people outside my family _in person_ since February and the outlook doesn't look like it's going to change. Even if I wasn't married, the idea of dating anybody _in person _sounds nuts.

So, my hypothesis is that in a few years, assuming no major reversion back to the status quo, that 'feeling of the past' when reading such a scene will become the status quo, which may well mean that in -- say -- ten years we will have largely forgotten what any of it was like. 

This will make a large number of books either unintelligible or at least irrelevant. Put on an episode of Sex & The City or The Office or really anything which seeks to portray 'modern culture' in some form, and count how many things do not currently exist and probably wont for the forseeable future (years), things that even if the circumstances eventually change it will be too late to return to. Do you anticipate a return to the day of mingling in bars with strangers and going home to have sex with them? No? Then an entire 'rite of passage' for millions is gone and the stories that included it are dead.

 I am talking about a complete cultural overhaul in a relatively short period of time (a matter of a few years or so)

But I would be interested to hear any proposals to the contrary, of course.


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## Bayview (Jul 3, 2020)

I really don't think the world is going to change as much as you seem to think it's going to. Time will tell, obviously, but there have been plagues before and there will be plagues again. Things eventually go back to near-normal.


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## Taylor (Jul 3, 2020)

Biro said:


> But not to turn this into all about the disease.  In your story even if the 2 people have both had the disease then they can still transfer it to each other by their clothes etc...........and then later pass it on to others who may die.



I'm not sure we actually know the answer to this yet.  So if this was younger people who may be looking for a rationalization, it might make sense.  But until we know what the outcome will be of antibody testing, vaccines etc., it likely will be hard to dialogue a modern day casual romance that happens PC.   

It will indeed be a challenge to have a normal story that just addresses it and not makes it part of the plot.  It's not quite the same as STDs, because one person could have got it getting gas on the way home from the lab after testing negative.


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## Taylor (Jul 3, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> - Board meetings - these are deeply hazardous when in-person and will probably be mostly online from now on (that was already a trend and will surely be accelerated)



I had to laugh when I pictured the transformation of board meetings in my proffesional career:

When I first started attending board meetings, there used to be a big ashtray in the centre of the table full of butts and the room was blue with smoke.  (Banning cigarettes indoors stopped that.)

Then we used fly people in from other cities.  (Carbon tax requirements stopped that.)

Then we had some people in the room and some who were at various teleconference sites who we could seen on a screen in th boardroom. (LWS (telleworking) stopped that.)

Funny thing is the last few board meetings I attended PC, didn't look much different than the one I just attended last month.  



luckyscars said:


> So, my hypothesis is that in a few years, assuming no major reversion back to the status quo, that 'feeling of the past' when reading such a scene will become the status quo, which may well mean that in -- say -- ten years we will have largely forgotten what any of it was like.
> 
> This will make a large number of books either unintelligible or at least irrelevant. Put on an episode of Sex & The City or The Office or really anything which seeks to portray 'modern culture' in some form, and count how many things do not currently exist and probably wont for the forseeable future (years), things that even if the circumstances eventually change it will be too late to return to. Do you anticipate a return to the day of mingling in bars with strangers and going home to have sex with them? No? Then an entire 'rite of passage' for millions is gone and the stories that included it are dead.
> 
> ...



I doubt that there will ever be a time when we either will forget this completely, or go back to the way it was. I'm guessing that quite a few things will never return or will become politically incorrect.  For example the handshake.  Personally, I will not miss it.  

But I don't think it makes books that portray a certain way of life in a certain period irrelevant.  Because things are always changing outside of Covid anyway.  For example Sex and the City, did not cover online dating and swiping right ot left or whatever you do.   We just accept that things were different when the author wrote the book.   I actually think it is what makes some re-reads, re-runs more interesting.  It's nostalgic.  In fact, some books/series specifically write about another period just to capture that era, because people want to remember how things were. Happy Days?  That 70's Show?


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## luckyscars (Jul 3, 2020)

Taylor said:


> We just accept that things were different when the author wrote the book.   I actually think it is what makes some re-reads, re-runs more interesting.  It's nostalgic.  In fact, some books/series specifically write about another period just to capture that era, because people want to remember how things were. Happy Days?  That 70's Show?



Absolutely, and I agree. 

But what I was shooting for with this thread wasn't so much to say _nobody will be able to watch this stuff and understand it _because arguably that's true of anything after a certain period of time anyway. We can't read and properly understand Shakespeare when he satirizes Jews or women or Frenchmen because none of that stuff is relevant now and it's appeal is purely historical (which is the ultimate destination of that which is 'nostalgic')

What I am saying is that the speed by which this stuff enters irrelevancy correlates directly with the speed of the world's change. We have seen this happen before with stuff like the 1960's and the things that changed that make an 'average' book written in 1959 totally different than the 'average' book written in 1969 because the world changed so much in those ten years (for more so than, say, 1989 and 1999 because the nineties was a significantly less progressive period). A lot of stories written in the fifties were positively obsolete by the seventies. Similarly with the change between the twenties and the forties due to the Depression, War, etc.

I am only talking about books written right now.

Right now, today, the vast majority of writers _I suspect _are writing through the lens of the world as it was in approximately 2019 (pre Covid). What I am saying is that I believe that is ALREADY obsolete even though it was only ~seven months ago. I suspect very few of us have yet to make the jump to writing in a Covid/post-Covid timeframe. I suspect very few people have changed yet.

And, if I am right, then they will obviously need to change eventually, because there is only so much time that can pass before 'now' because 'yesterday', which is why anybody who was writing in the 1950's had to adapt after the 1960's passed. Nobody wanted books with fifties values and fifties landscapes anymore because it was old news.

So, that's all good, but my question then is when will the need to make that change start to filter into people's awareness? I wrote an entire draft of a book just recently completely overlooking the fact that multiple scenes in it are likely going to be impossible now. I suppose nobody HAS to change, there is that *argument*, but I feel like pretty soon -- sooner than we would like -- the readership is going to demand that we start reflecting real life as it actually is, not as it was in 2019.


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## Taylor (Jul 3, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> Absolutely, and I agree.
> 
> But what I was shooting for with this thread wasn't so much to say _nobody will be able to watch this stuff and understand it _because arguably that's true of anything after a certain period of time anyway. We can't read and properly understand Shakespeare when he satirizes Jews or women or Frenchmen because none of that stuff is relevant now and it's appeal is purely historical (which is the ultimate destination of that which is 'nostalgic')
> 
> ...



Sorry I missed your point, because it is a good one!  Now, I am feeling bad for those who are trying to write a blockbuster to be released next year, that supposedly takes place in current day.   This is the fastest major shift that I have seen in my lifetime.


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## luckyscars (Jul 4, 2020)

Bayview said:


> I really don't think the world is going to change as much as you seem to think it's going to. Time will tell, obviously, but there have been plagues before and there will be plagues again. Things eventually go back to near-normal.



I think the reason I have this concern is that having looked at those plagues-of-the-past I see them as being pretty different to this one in some important ways. First of all, from what I have seen, this is the most serious plague in terms of death toll since the sixties. It's surpassed Swine Flu, for instance. That's not necessarily very important (in this context) but I put that together with the differences in modern life now compared to when the previous big pandemics occurred (Spanish Flu, most comparably) and while the death toll is not the same the fact is the world wasn't particularly sophisticated in the 1910's and certainly not much of it was incorporated into writing anyway.

For example, almost nobody went on vacation in 1917, almost nobody traveled, so there wasn't a whole lot of writing about going on vacation or any sort of recreational travel. There was some, but it wasn't 'something normal people did'. These days almost everybody does travel at least some, so already we have a big chunk of 'modern living' on the chopping block that was not there to be reflected in 1917, right? There weren't a ton of concerts. Not many sporting events. Most normal people didn't eat in restaurants much. Existence was relatively basic. So, like, maybe life in previous pandemics could more easily revert to near-normal afterwards because life was relatively simple? 

Combine the landscape in amenities with a highly integrated and globalized economy with a _lot _more diverse pieces and occupations with the shift to use of technology at the expense of typical in-person interactions (which was already occurring obviously, just at a slower rate) and I feel like the year-over-year change to how people live their lives was _already_ moving pretty fast. It was already kind of hard to keep up with it in writing, just basic unimportant stuff like what websites were being used and the model of iPhone the character had. It was already difficult for a story to feel contemporary once it was done because the world would often move in some significant way within the span of a single year. Sometimes months.

So, it's really hard to see _now _how that wont go into overdrive and the knock on effect could make it really tough. I fully expect to never go to another restaurant again, or at least it's going to be really rare compared to before. Not so much out of fear of the virus (because eventually that WILL subside, I agree) but more because by the time the virus subsides I will just be too used to cooking and Uber Eats that it won't occur to me. Ditto for movie theaters, bars, etc. Eventually the desire for these things will fade, it seems likely to me. And, once they do, I don't see those places coming back easily and certainly not in the same way that they were.

I realize I'm probably being a _little _dramatic. But I do think the changes will be significant enough, in terms of number of people who have just forgotten that these things used to be cornerstones of our society, to prohibit a return to near-normal. Which will affect our social landscape significantly. Which will affect the world we write about. 

Maybe I'm just sounding nuts. Dunno.


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## Bayview (Jul 4, 2020)

Well, the Spanish Flu epidemic was right before the Roaring Twenties: people didn't seem too put off by the risks of contagion. Reading _The Great Gatsby, _I might see a sort of emotional echo of the epidemic (and WW I) in the sense of nihilism, the almost desperate need to be always having a good time, but I don't see many practical changes in their world.

And I'm not sure I agree about your version of life in the pre-Spanish-Flu era. (I'm basing a lot of this on reading contemporary novels from the era, rather than historical documents, but I think that makes sense, given the theme of this thread!). I think there was certainly less disposable income for most people, so eating in restaurants as a form of entertainment may not have been as common. But there seemed to be a significant number of people living in one-room tenements, etc, who had no cooking facilities at home. As I recall reading somewhere (pretty academic source, huh?) restaurants were one of the few public amenities not closed for the Flu, because people actually needed them in order to survive. People certainly went to the movies, saw concerts, gathered for political rallies, went to sporting events... maybe not as routinely as in modern life, but hardly rarely. Now, more of the population was rural at the time, and I'm sure life on the farm was more distant, but in the cities? My impression is NOT that they were living in little boxes, hardly going out to see each other.

Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. As a huge introvert, I'm happy as a clam, staying at home, but I'm definitely sick of listening to the bitching of my extrovert friends! I'd love to see the world go back to normal.

And, really, in many areas, it already is. We may not have the mega-events, yet, but one of the challenges of managing this pandemic seems, to me, to be people's enthusiasm for returning to the old ways, in many cases before it's safe to do so. I don't know if we should call it the Triumph of the Human Spirit or Collective Stupidity, but one way or another, a lot of people seem absolutely ready to resume their old lives.


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## Kyle R (Jul 4, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> . . . I feel like pretty soon -- sooner than we would like -- the readership is going to demand that we start reflecting real life as it actually is, not as it was in 2019.



I agree.

And it's also why I feel compelled to ask: have you ever dipped your toes into the waters of speculative fiction (science fiction/fantasy)?

If you're writing modern contemporary fiction, you're kind of obligated to move with the times. You are, after all, writing fiction set in the modern, realistic world. It'd be hard to do that while simultaneously ignoring the current, society-changing pandemic.

With speculative fiction, on the other hand, you have the freedom to go wherever you want with things, with no requirements to reflect the real world.

It might be something worth considering, just to avoid any future conundrums, like the one you currently find yourself in. Just a thought! :encouragement:


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## luckyscars (Jul 4, 2020)

Kyle R said:


> I agree.
> 
> And it's also why I feel compelled to ask: have you ever dipped your toes into the waters of speculative fiction (science fiction/fantasy)?
> 
> ...



Yeah, I have. My first completed novel was a time travel novel with some (somewhat mishandled) explorations into quantum concepts and stuff. I also write a lot of historical fiction which is obviously somewhat immune from all this stuff.

I tend to gravitate more toward realism, though. Like, I like the idea of overlaying fantasy with real life (magic realism) or horror that centers around human psychology more than supernatural stuff. Not a huge fan of monsters and the like. And yeah it's a real challenge right now, because I find my notions of 'everyday' are based on the ancient history of eight months ago.


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## Kyle R (Jul 4, 2020)

luckyscars said:


> And yeah it's a real challenge right now, because I find my notions of 'everyday' are based on the ancient history of eight months ago.



I know—it's mind-boggling. And discouraging. And frustrating.

Sometimes it feels like, what's the point of even writing anymore? But whenever I catch myself thinking that way, I try my best to course-correct. If anyone can think of creative solutions, it should be us writers. :encouragement:


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## indianroads (Jul 5, 2020)

OTOH - for dystopian writers (my next book will be) these times are solid gold.


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## Jp (Jul 5, 2020)

I don't know, I think the market will be come saturated like it did back in 2012.


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## Jp (Jul 5, 2020)

Everybody thought the world was going to end, so a literal ton of books came around revolving around the end of the world and prepping. The 2012 books, I am sure fill Goodwills.


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## Taylor (Jul 17, 2020)

Since this thread started, I noticed a good number of TV commercials have integrated Covid. I guess they now think it will be around long enough to make the ads pay for themselves.  They also must have found a way to film while social distancing.   

So much has happened this last week.  Looks like we will not be returning to the new normal for a whlie.  Wondering what's going to happen with all the weekly shows and when they will return.  I can see that the reality shows may find a way to film safely.    But there will be some creative script writing for sitcoms, dramas etc.  Like it will be awkward to show a husband and wife social distancing at home.  Maybe no scenes with close family members in the same room?


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## luckyscars (Jul 17, 2020)

Taylor said:


> Since this thread started, I noticed a good number of TV commercials have integrated Covid. I guess they now think it will be around long enough to make the ads pay for themselves.  They also must have found a way to film while social distancing.



I have noticed this too. I would say, though, that really any dominant national/international issue finds a way into advertising. I'm thinking of the Clint Eastwood voiceover 'it's half time in America' ad a few years back during the superbowl in reference to the automobile industry bailouts. A lot of ads these days also incorporate themes of equality and stuff. I think when they start to regularly show people participating in activities wearing masks without it being especially noticeable -- i.e, once it becomes less of a feature of the ad and more just a detail in the background -- that will indicate we have definitely jumped the shark on this thing.



> So much has happened this last week.  Looks like we will not be returning to the new normal for a whlie.  Wondering what's going to happen with all the weekly shows and when they will return.  I can see that the reality shows may find a way to film safely.



Good point about the shows. I'm thinking especially of stuff like soap operas and sitcoms, the stuff that is supposed to be relatable to its audience -- I guess reality TV would fall under that. At a certain point they're going to need to include Covid at least passively.



> But there will be some creative script writing for sitcoms, dramas etc.  Like it will be awkward to show a husband and wife social distancing at home.  Maybe no scenes with close family members in the same room?



Who is social distancing among immediate family members? That doesn't seem possible?


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## Taylor (Jul 18, 2020)

?





luckyscars said:


> Who is social distancing among immediate family members? That doesn't seem possible?



Well that was exactly my point.  For some reality TV, for example the "Keeping up with the Kardashians", you can film them interacting at home, because they are a family and don't need to social distance.  But if you have a sitcom, for example "Modern Family", they are actors and not part of a real family, so you can't realistically show them together in the same room, because as actors, they would have to wear masks and social distance. Unless we as an audience can look past the masks, and the social distancing.  It would be a lot to expect.  

Reality shows like the Bachelour will have additional challenges, in that it involves new people meeting in large gatherings.  They, likely will not be able to continue as we know it.  But other mating shows like "Married at First Sight" might be possible.  People will still need to get married in real life, and once they are married they would be a real family, so no social distancing required.  

Other forms of reality TV like the rennovation shows, should be possible.  The construction industry does not seem to be hit by Covid at all.  And many of the hosts are husband and wife teams like the Gaines on Fixer Upper.  

And then sports is a big question mark.  But without the huge spectator base, there will be a considerable loss of revenue. I understand that Major League baseball is discussing some kind of a revenue sharing salary system. 

And all of this means that reading may become more popular again.  And to loop back to the first post of this thread, maybe fiction will be a way for people to escape Covid.  Perhaps people will wish to read about a world where people are free to move freely as they did in the past.  Will it become a new genre? "Current day fiction, no Covid."  Which I guess, would be a form of sci-fi.


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## Dluuni (Jul 19, 2020)

I'm trying to sort out, but things are changing very quickly in other ways too. COVID is actually not the biggest worry for me as far as lifestyle is concerned. I have to come up with ways to meet, yes. I already have a few. I have to predict new dangers to characters now though.

I'm in America. The question here isn't "What social precautions will we take?" Rather, it is "What reasonable precautions will be made illegal?" That's far harder to predict.


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## Dluuni (Jul 19, 2020)

In other news, I just saw a string of tweets by someone who was asked by a girl to stream the same movie at the same time and send video messages back and forth. They laughed at the same parts, talked a lot, then they went for walks in their respective places, sending videos and talking about the things they were seeing. There was lots of feels described.
Sounds like a date!


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## SueC (Jul 20, 2020)

I just finished writing a book, and am working on #2 in a series. People are coming and going, living in an apartment building on Chicago's north side (Rogers Park). I would have absolutely no story if this were set in Covid-time. And to be honest, I don't really think Covid-time is worthy of a re-write, or re-structuring of our concept of what life is all about. I think eventually, we will get through what this is, this separation, this quarantine-ridden year and get closer to what we consider normal interactive behavior. I have to believe this because we are human beings who do not isolate well. And we are smart; we find ways to fix things and this whole virus will be fixed.

Looking back, some of you may remember what it was like when polio was rampant, and we have definitely come back from that.

[h=1]Much like COVID-19, polio shut down schools, 
public places in 1946; officials urged 
hand washing and social distancing[/h]_San Antonio Express News, May 9, 2020_


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## Taylor (Jul 21, 2020)

I just watched one of my regular TV shows that started filming again after lock down.  It films in LA, and I would think these episodes would have been filmed a couple of weeks ago.    

It's interesting that so far, they have chosen not to write in Covid 19.  They just picked up where things left off.  There are a fair number of actors from different households and one actor is a todler.   It doesn't appear that they are social distancing with all of the actors, although some scenes appear to have the six feet between actors. So far they have been quite careful of who they show together, so I guess they may address it in the coming episodes.  

Since they have started filming things have escalated in California.  The Govenor just issued new lock down orders.  I wonder how this will affect the ongoing filming.  They likely will have to address it at some point in time, to maintain the government orders and reduce the risk on set.  If they do, at least some of the actors, like extras could wear masks.  

I'll keep you posted!


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## ironpony (Jul 23, 2020)

Taylor said:


> I just watched one of my regular TV shows that started filming again after lock down.  It films in LA, and I would think these episodes would have been filmed a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> It's interesting that so far, they have chosen not to write in Covid 19.  They just picked up where things left off.  There are a fair number of actors from different households and one actor is a todler.   It doesn't appear that they are social distancing with all of the actors, although some scenes appear to have the six feet between actors. So far they have been quite careful of who they show together, so I guess they may address it in the coming episodes.
> 
> ...



I think this is the way to go and write as if covid hasn't happened, unless maybe that might be a mistake, not sure.


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## Taylor (Jul 23, 2020)

ironpony said:


> I think this is the way to go and write as if covid hasn't happened, unless maybe that might be a mistake, not sure.



Possibly.  Although if they don't address it at some time, when numerous characters who are not related are in a room together or out in public not wearing a mask, it could become a sticky social message.  

I heard from my friend in Arizona that even though masks have been mandated when outside the family home, some people are rebeling.  Basically ignoring masks and all social distancing orders.  

I wonder if sponsors would see the absence of Covid 19 precautions as a form of denial, and not want to endorse that message.

What a conundrum for script writers!


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## ironpony (Jul 23, 2020)

Oh well it's just that people have been getting in rooms since the beginning of time, so I thought that that behavior was so normal, that it wouldn't be seen as weird or rebellious if it happens in a fictional story, where covid hasn't happened, or will it?


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## Taylor (Jul 23, 2020)

ironpony said:


> Oh well it's just that people have been getting in rooms since the beginning of time, so I thought that that behavior was so normal, that it wouldn't be seen as weird or rebellious if it happens in a fictional story, where covid hasn't happened, or will it?



I hope your right, because I miss normal life, and I miss my show!!


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## Taylor (Sep 9, 2020)

Taylor said:


> I just watched one of my regular TV shows that started filming again after lock down.  It films in LA, and I would think these episodes would have been filmed a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> It's interesting that so far, they have chosen not to write in Covid 19.  They just picked up where things left off.  There are a fair number of actors from different households and one actor is a todler.   It doesn't appear that they are social distancing with all of the actors, although some scenes appear to have the six feet between actors. So far they have been quite careful of who they show together, so I guess they may address it in the coming episodes.
> 
> ...



I thought I'd bring this thread back to life, since so much more on Covid has developed since our last post.

I have been watching my show, and they still have not addressed Covid 19 in the storyline. But in real life they are social distancing on the set. I didn't think it would be possible and still make the story believable. They stay seven feet apart. Love scenes are filmed with blow-up dolls (it's not obvious...lol!), and stand-in husbands and wives. They are doing a pretty good job of making it look normal. At first, it bothered me that they did not incorporate the pandemic into the action in some way, but now I am actually enjoying getting a bit of a break from it, and am glad that regular storylines are continuing uninterrupted.

What new experiences/opinions do people have on stories in the age of Covid?


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## Joker (Sep 9, 2020)

Taylor said:


> I thought I'd bring this thread back to life, since so much more on Covid has developed since our last post.
> 
> I have been watching my show, and they still have not addressed Covid 19 in the storyline. But in real life they are social distancing on the set. I didn't think it would be possible and still make the story believable. They stay seven feet apart. Love scenes are filmed with blow-up dolls (it's not obvious...lol!), and stand-in husbands and wives. They are doing a pretty good job of making it look normal. At first, it bothered me that they did not incorporate the pandemic into the action in some way, but now I am actually enjoying getting a bit of a break from it, and am glad that regular storylines are continuing uninterrupted.
> 
> What new experiences/opinions do people have on stories in the age of Covid?



Not to be sarcastic, but unless your show happens to be a sitcom or crime procedural, I don't see how COVID would affect it. Fiction usually tends to have fairly high stakes, and COVID wouldn't have any baring on, say, a superhero saving the world from Mister Doctor Evil.

If it _does_ happen to be one of those genres, maybe COVID could be incorporated into the show to add drama. Show how it makes a detective's job harder. People slammimg the door in their faces out of paranoia so they can't interview witnesses, and so on.


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## Taylor (Sep 9, 2020)

Joker said:


> Not to be sarcastic, but unless your show happens to be a sitcom or crime procedural, I don't see how COVID would affect it. Fiction usually tends to have fairly high stakes, and COVID wouldn't have any baring on, say, a superhero saving the world from Mister Doctor Evil.
> 
> If it _does_ happen to be one of those genres, maybe COVID could be incorporated into the show to add drama. Show how it makes a detective's job harder. People slammimg the door in their faces out of paranoia so they can't interview witnesses, and so on.



It's a show about families and daily life, so yeah Covid would definitely affect these lives in reality.


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## Joker (Sep 9, 2020)

Taylor said:


> It's a show about families and daily life, so yeah Covid would definitely affect these lives in reality.



Hmmm. Could go either way. I agree with you that hearing about COVID gets extremely tiring. It would have to be handled extremely well to not just feel like pandering or political or whatever.


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## Taylor (Sep 9, 2020)

Joker said:


> Hmmm. Could go either way. I agree with you that hearing about COVID gets extremely tiring. It would have to be handled extremely well to not just feel like pandering or political or whatever.



They have obviously made a concerted effort not to include it. All of the scenes so far are indoors and without anyone but family members or close employees, no extras.  Watching these type of family drama shows, viewers expect that not all conversations/scenes are shown, so it would be realistic in your mind that they just aren't showing any one in a setting where a mask would be required.  And although the characters could be having conversations about Covid, they are just not including them in selected scenes.  They could however, touch on it lightly eventually if needed.


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## ironpony (Sep 9, 2020)

Taylor said:


> I thought I'd bring this thread back to life, since so much more on Covid has developed since our last post.
> 
> I have been watching my show, and they still have not addressed Covid 19 in the storyline. But in real life they are social distancing on the set. I didn't think it would be possible and still make the story believable. They stay seven feet apart. Love scenes are filmed with blow-up dolls (it's not obvious...lol!), and stand-in husbands and wives. They are doing a pretty good job of making it look normal. At first, it bothered me that they did not incorporate the pandemic into the action in some way, but now I am actually enjoying getting a bit of a break from it, and am glad that regular storylines are continuing uninterrupted.
> 
> What new experiences/opinions do people have on stories in the age of Covid?



Which show is this?


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## ironpony (Sep 9, 2020)

Taylor said:


> Possibly.  Although if they don't address it at some time, when numerous characters who are not related are in a room together or out in public not wearing a mask, it could become a sticky social message.
> 
> I heard from my friend in Arizona that even though masks have been mandated when outside the family home, some people are rebeling.  Basically ignoring masks and all social distancing orders.
> 
> ...



Well if they addressed it just purely to avoid a sticky social message, couldn't that come off as gimmicky or annoying?  It's like how whenever I see a character smoking in a movie or tv nowadays, they have to have another character mention how it causes cancer, and it just feels like PC pandering to me.  So if they addressed covid, if it didn't have anything to do with the rest of the plot, could it just come off the same way, like it's pandering?


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## Bayview (Sep 10, 2020)

Joker said:


> Not to be sarcastic, but unless your show happens to be a sitcom or crime procedural, I don't see how COVID would affect it. Fiction usually tends to have fairly high stakes, and COVID wouldn't have any baring on, say, a superhero saving the world from Mister Doctor Evil.
> 
> If it _does_ happen to be one of those genres, maybe COVID could be incorporated into the show to add drama. Show how it makes a detective's job harder. People slammimg the door in their faces out of paranoia so they can't interview witnesses, and so on.



Does the superhero not talk to other people at any point? (How far away do they stand? Are they masked?) Does she not go out in public? (Are there crowds? are people masked?) Does she appear on camera? (Is she masked?) etc.


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## Taylor (Sep 10, 2020)

ironpony said:


> Well if they addressed it just purely to avoid a sticky social message, couldn't that come off as gimmicky or annoying?  It's like how whenever I see a character smoking in a movie or tv nowadays, they have to have another character mention how it causes cancer, and it just feels like PC pandering to me.  So if they addressed covid, if it didn't have anything to do with the rest of the plot, could it just come off the same way, like it's pandering?



I really don't understand what it has to do with "pandering".  It's just what's happening.  So if a show is depicting a current realistic setting, it is just what the world looks like today.  It's not a political statement.  As a viewer, I don't have a preference, if they address it or not, but if I'm watching a depiction of reality, it seems remiss if no one is wearing a mask.


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## ironpony (Sep 10, 2020)

Oh okay, that makes sense.  I thought you mean mention it verbally, if it doesn't have anything to do with the plot.  However, characters wearing masks is not the same as mentioning it in dialogue.

For written fiction like novels it might be okay.  I am writing screenplays though, and in a movie, you want to be able to see the actors faces of courses.  So if I have a script set in modern times, and no one is wearing a covid mask, would that come off as bad, if you want to see their faces?


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## Bayview (Sep 11, 2020)

Really, with many actors I'd like to see ALL parts of them, or at least a lot more than what I'm traditionally shown on a screen. But we don't generally have actors appear near-naked in all their scenes, because it's not realistic. Most people wear clothes in public, so most characters in movies do, too. If the virus sticks around, we may get to the point where masks are just as accepted as clothes, in which case it would be unrealistic to show characters without them, regardless of whether viewers want to see the actors' faces.


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## Taylor (Sep 11, 2020)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, that makes sense.  I thought you mean mention it verbally, if it doesn't have anything to do with the plot.  However, characters wearing masks is not the same as mentioning it in dialogue.
> 
> For written fiction like novels it might be okay.  I am writing screenplays though, and in a movie, you want to be able to see the actors faces of courses.  So if I have a script set in modern times, and no one is wearing a covid mask, would that come off as bad, if you want to see their faces?



I think you could make it work.  If they are outside, you could show a few extras in the back with masks heading into a store.  They could mention Covid a few times, or perhaps show them using hand sanitizer.  I'd write it in, lightly so you could remove it, if the movie gets produced after the safety measures are removed.


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## TheManx (Sep 12, 2020)

I wrote a covid related short story back in April. It already feels dated to me. This may be going on for a good while, but I'm going to put off incorporating it into my stories for as long as possible. Maybe because it feels like the one covid-related thing I can control...


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## indianroads (Sep 12, 2020)

I'm currently writing dystopian scifi, in my WIP I mention a plague as part of the historical record, but don't go into detail.


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## ironpony (Sep 12, 2020)

Oh okay.  Well as far as whether or not I should include covid in a screenplay, that is set in modern times, there is one writer who told me something interesting.  He said if it's a novel, include it, because in a novel readers, can still get character emotions with the masks on.  But if it's a screenplay, don't include since in movies you have to see the actors' faces.  Do you think in that sense, covid is more acceptable in a novel than a in movie therefore?


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## Taylor (Sep 12, 2020)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay.  Well as far as whether or not I should include covid in a screenplay, that is set in modern times, there is one writer who told me something interesting.  He said if it's a novel, include it, because in a novel readers, can still get character emotions with the masks on.  But if it's a screenplay, don't include since in movies you have to see the actors' faces.  Do you think in that sense, covid is more acceptable in a novel than a in movie therefore?



That sounds like a logical solution.  However, I'm not sure it is an issue of acceptability.  At some point, if masks and social distancing become more permanent because they haven't yet found a vaccine, then we will expect to see it addressed in some way when watching a current setting.  It's like if script writers have people driving in cars, it would be off-putting to see them talking on their cell phone and not wearing a seatbelt.  Or not strapping their kids into a car seat.  It would say something about them as a character.  Maybe not a fair comparison, since car accidents are a hazzard that will not go away anytime soon.  The point is, if you are setting your story in current reality, then it has to look like current reality.    

Don't forget, you also have the actual hazzard on the set, so social distancing rules apply there as well.  I'm sure studios have Covid restrictions just like any other business. So you should write the story to minimize close contact with actors, or producers may not pick up the script because of production difficulites.  Remember that we don't always wear masks.  So there are plenty of scenes that can take place with your main characters, where it would seem normal under these circumstances that they are not wearing masks.   But I'm pretty sure the six foot separation will be required on the set, unless they cast family members.   In this cases, husband/wife duos may have a better chance to be cast.

I feel reality shows which have been gaining viewers over the past decades have a real advantage here, because they don't have to question this.  Everyone expects it.  I have already watched a number of reality shows where people wear masks for some scenes and are social distancing on set.  It's seems perfectly normal.


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## ironpony (Sep 12, 2020)

Oh okay.  Well in my experience of filmmaking the six foot seperation thing is impossible, especially for the actors.  So tests would have to be done for sure, cause they would have to be required to go closer than six feet once in a while.  I understand what you mean by the seatbelt analogy, but with seatbelts you can still see the actors faces and emotions, so I thought that maybe that is where the line is drawn, is don't include modern things, if it interferes with seeing the actors, unless I am wrong .

I guess if you make a movie where everyone is wearing covid masks though, you can always do ADR and not have to worry about the dialogue mismatching though.


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## Taylor (Sep 12, 2020)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay.  Well in my experience of filmmaking the six foot seperation thing is impossible, especially for the actors.  So tests would have to be done for sure, cause they would have to be required to go closer than six feet once in a while.  I understand what you mean by the seatbelt analogy, but with seatbelts you can still see the actors faces and emotions, so I thought that maybe that is where the line is drawn, is don't include modern things, if it interferes with seeing the actors, unless I am wrong .
> 
> I guess if you make a movie where everyone is wearing covid masks though, you can always do ADR and not have to worry about the dialogue mismatching though.



LOL...that's very funny, but I think you are missing the point.  Not everyone has to wear a mask all the time.  Look around you...what do you see?  And as far as your previous experience in filmmaking, have you not yet heard the term "the new normal"?   I am pretty sure that studios will find a creative way to stage with the six foot restriction, otherwise, they may not get to re-open as per California State guidelines:

https://covid19.ca.gov/industry-guidance/ 

I don't think Hollywood is exempt.  If you scroll down, you will see there is a special section for music, film and TV production.


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## ironpony (Sep 12, 2020)

Lol thanks, I just look for easy advantages in filmmaking if I can find them, but at the same time, do not want to compromise the acting.  Yep that's true, I see what you mean.  Not everyone has to wear a mask all the time.  As for the term 'the new normal', well the problem with six feet is that it's not always possible.  For example, there is a scene in my script where the vilains kidnap someone and take them hostage.  Well you have to get closer to six feet to do that.  There are other scenes where people fight and killed during, for example.  Things like that I mean.


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## Taylor (Sep 12, 2020)

ironpony said:


> Lol thanks, I just look for easy advantages in filmmaking if I can find them, but at the same time, do not want to compromise the acting.  Yep that's true, I see what you mean.  Not everyone has to wear a mask all the time.  As for the term 'the new normal', well the problem with six feet is that it's not always possible.  For example, there is a scene in my script where the vilains kidnap someone and take them hostage.  Well you have to get closer to six feet to do that.  There are other scenes where people fight and killed during, for example.  Things like that I mean.



Maybe your competitive advantage will be that you write Covid-friendly scripts. :wink2:


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## ironpony (Sep 12, 2020)

Taylor said:


> Maybe your competitive advantage will be that you write Covid-friendly scripts. :wink2:



I don't think I could write a story where characters would not be allowed to put each other into physical danger though.


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## Taylor (Sep 13, 2020)

ironpony said:


> I don't think I could write a story where characters would not be allowed to put each other into physical danger though.



Do you understand the difference between actors and characters?  Prior to Covid, characters put each other into physical danger, but the studio was not allowed to put actors into physical danger.  Do you think actors were actually shooting each other. No...they just create the imagery.  And that's what you have to do now, but you have to follow the new rules for now.


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## ironpony (Sep 13, 2020)

Oh yeah, it's just that I think the actors are allowed to do a fake fight scene for example, as long as they are tested, as far as I know.  I know the actors are not actually fighting, but they still have to get close to each other to sell it though.


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