# Does Discussing Your Novel Do More Harm than Good?



## OurJud (Sep 18, 2013)

Inspired by TheYellowMustang's thread, or more accurately a particular post in that thread, I just wondered how others felt about over-discussing your WiP. I don't really expect many will hold the same belief for obvious reason, but let's see.

I have read on countless writing sites and blogs, quotes from established authors who say discussing your WiP is a very bad move indeed, one of them comparing it to opening a clam before the pearl inside is ready, thus ruining it.

I kind of know where they're coming from because I learned the hard way. Remember my idea for a Sci-fi novel about a special branch of the police force who could 'undo' murders by reversing time? I discussed that novel on here to such an extent that I was sick to the back teeth of it before I'd written 10,000 words. It started to feel soiled, like it was just one massive collaboration that I only played a small part in, and it eventually led to me shelving the idea indefinitely.

I was in danger of doing it again with my current WiP and have (I hope) seriously cut back on asking questions directly relating to its plot (for want of a better word) and characters.

Thoughts?


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## Sam (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm an extremely reclusive person when it comes to writing novels. I don't discuss them with anyone until they're finished or in the last stages.


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## Lewdog (Sep 18, 2013)

I think it really depends on the audience.  You have some that will be thoughtful and try their best to help, while others might be indifferent and give you the feeling your doing something wrong, while there are even others that could have a predisposed idea of who you are and how they feel about you and give you advice they know is a pit fall.  So I think your best bet is to bring your serious ideas, or your WiP to only a select group of people with whom you trust what they have to say.


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## Kevin (Sep 18, 2013)

I don't know. I never ask questions about my story, just questions about grammar and how to format...things like that. I figure it's a waste of time (and will bore...). A great premise is worthless if I can't get it into a readable form. Maybe after it's all been written.


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## Myers (Sep 18, 2013)

When I go out, I wear a button that says, “Ask me about my novel!”


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## Blade (Sep 18, 2013)

OurJud said:


> I was in danger of doing it again with my current WiP and have (I hope) seriously cut back on asking questions directly relating to its plot (for want of a better word) and characters.
> 
> Thoughts?



Good.




			
				Sam said:
			
		

> I'm an extremely reclusive person when it comes to writing novels. I don't discuss them with anyone until they're finished or in the last stages.



I think this is the most reasonable and practical position to take considering that the responsibility of the whole work is ultimately in your hands and has to respond to your choices and judgement. If you have friends or associates who can supply clear, sharp criticism, great; but that is going to be very much the exception and not the norm.

It is basically a case of "Too many cooks spoil the broth". Your own clarity of purpose is more likely to be muddled by discussion than it is to be sharpened. Just considering how you would present the issues to various interested parties would cause confusion enough.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 19, 2013)

I will discuss WIPs with my betas as I finish each chapter or for brainstorming parts, but otherwise I tend to find that the more I discuss it, the less I write it.


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## Gavrushka (Sep 19, 2013)

I don't think I would discuss a WIP in an open forum, but I will talk, in 'generic' terms, about troublesome issues.

I am not sure if it is the same for others, but I found a 'most trusted' person, with who I share my thoughts. - It's a compromise for me that seems to work. She does not interfere with my work, but her softly spoken perspective can often be a great inspiration.


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## Jeko (Sep 19, 2013)

I find that if I ever talk about my WIP, I get out a lot of the passion I have for the story. That passion does not come back in. So I _never _talk about my WIP until the first draft is finished.

Ultimately, I find that the spoken word has a real bone to pick with the written word. Talking about reading can ruin reading for other people. Talking about writing can ruin writing for yourself.


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## qwertyman (Sep 19, 2013)

Like most subscribers to this thread. I advocate getting the first draft in the drawer before seeking comments. The exceptions would be on technique, construction and research etc. 

When it's finished, seek a beta reader. 

With this in mind, I urge anyone who is seeking a beta should join the  'Beta Reader group'.

I'm not sure how 'groups' work as this 'Beta Reader group' was conceived during the recent forum crash and posts were lost or not recorded. Consequently, in spite of having eight members there doesn't appear to be any posts! Heigh ho!


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## Sintalion (Sep 19, 2013)

If someone asks what I'm working on, I tell them and don't have any problem with the continuation of my work thereafter. Other than that, I keep it to myself until it's ready for beta readers. 

Mostly though, I use discussion as a sort of practice synopsis that varies in length depending on who I'm talking to. I enjoy having another person engage me in the story line (not to plot, but to ask me questions about things). I've learned to filter the comments pretty well. I don't accept many suggestions, unless they're to expand on or shrink something I've done. If someone tells me what they want to see (the astronaut should be an orphan), I use my judgment, smile, and say "Yeah, maybe I could fit that in." And then I don't feel bad later when I don't. 

To summarize, I enjoy having what I did wrong pointed out, but I want to fix it myself, as opposed to having someone put the words in my mouth. 

In terms of my asking questions, it doesn't happen unless I'm doing research. And if it is research, 9/10 I don't even mention my WIP; I just go straight to the source and ask the relevant question (how would I defend myself against a chimpanzee?).


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## escorial (Sep 19, 2013)

If I had a finished novel I would tell everyone about it..


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## OurJud (Sep 19, 2013)

Well, more support for the 'keep it to yourself' philosophy than I imagined.

Many have understood exactly what I was asking, but some seem to think I was asking about the benefits of getting advice from others. This isn't really what the discussion was supposed to be about. I was simply looking for thoughts on whether you felt sharing your WiP with others can dilute your own enthusiasm.


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## David Gordon Burke (Sep 19, 2013)

I find one person and I run them through the outline long before I even put the first word down.  If they like the story, I go for it.  After that, I tell no one a thing aside from a very brief outline.
In my case, I write largely stories about animals and how they affect our lives (plus historical fiction, short fiction etc.) so my market is kids, young adults and pet owners / animal lovers.  The Dog Whisperer / Marley and Me demographic.  
I run the story by my 9 year old nephew.  
He often points out a flaw in my logic just out of the gate.  Kid's smart.
But to ask for story advice on a forum.  Never.
David Gordon Burke


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## voltigeur (Sep 19, 2013)

I think that when you discuss your WIP you have to know what you want out of it. I have discussed my one and only WIP here and it has been a good experience.  Some people have suggested things that rained on my original ideas but after thinking about it turned out to be much better ways of telling the story than I had originally come up with. 

While there have been some snarkey comments they are less than 2% most comments are given sincerely.  In open forum you will not agree with everything you get back and some you will not like until you think about it. 

I have learned so much here and enjoy the forum but if you put your work up for critique or your ideas up for input you have to wear your thick skin. Despite an emotional or ego pinch here and there I firmly believe that group mind is better than an individual working alone.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Sep 19, 2013)

I tell people what I've done after I've done it.  I would never ask for advice or ideas along the way; after all, this is MY creative process, not anyone else's.


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## Morkonan (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't discuss any specifics of anything I'm working on. If I need advice, I'll couch it in terms that purposefully obfuscate what it is I'm referring to without interfering with the ability of others to assist me with suggestions. In general, I don't ask for advice. But, I will bounce certain ideas around and present them for discussion. It's not in regards to ideas to "write about." Any writer should have plenty of those. It's more in regards to certain approaches and feeling out the appropriate climate to present for certain subjects.


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## Newman (Sep 21, 2013)

OurJud said:


> I have read on countless writing sites and blogs, quotes from established authors who say discussing your WiP is a very bad move indeed, one of them comparing it to opening a clam before the pearl inside is ready, thus ruining it.
> 
> Thoughts?



Completely disagree.

Discussing it will help figure it out and make it much, much more interesting.


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## Sam (Sep 21, 2013)

So if you don't discuss it, it won't be interesting? *Rolls eyes*


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## Jeko (Sep 21, 2013)

> Discussing it will help figure it out and make it much, much more interesting.



One morning I 'discussed' my WIP with my brother, at the time I was completely absorbed in thinking about it and being excited about it. He didn't talk back much in the conversation.

Then, when I go down to write, I've found I've lost my enthusiasm.

This is why I now always write with the door closed. Else I feel I'm jeopardizing the security of my work.


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## J Anfinson (Sep 21, 2013)

Newman said:


> Completely disagree.
> 
> Discussing it will help figure it out and make it much, much more interesting.



I wouldn't guarantee that. Outside opinions can help, but whether or not your story turns out interesting is still up to you.


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## Newman (Sep 21, 2013)

J Anfinson said:


> I wouldn't guarantee that. Outside opinions can help, but whether or not your story turns out interesting is still up to you.



Lots of stories work out through discussion. That's what a writer's room is. That's how TV shows get made.


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## J Anfinson (Sep 21, 2013)

Newman said:


> Lots of stories work out through discussion. That's what a writer's room is. That's how TV shows get made.



It certainly can work, I'm just saying there's no guarantee, and since the only writer is you, its going to come down to how you execute it.


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## Myers (Sep 21, 2013)

When I first started my novel, I exchanged chapters with two other writers. It was helpful at the time, one of the writers was quite good and went on to have her novel published traditionally and it sold OK for a first novel; she gave me some great feedback. But the arrangement wasn't very practical, and found I didn't really need or want the input after I gained a little confidence. But I'll probably seek out a beta reader when the time comes. 

As far as the forum goes, from what I've seen here, when people ask for opinions, there's not enough context, so the questions are vague and advice is usually too general to be of much use. I might post a chapter or two in the Workshop, but I won't be asking about ideas or POV or any of the usual questions people ask in this section of the forum.


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## Grape Juice Vampire (Sep 21, 2013)

I have one friend I discuss it at length with, but otherwise, no. I don't talk about it much if at all. It's only with this friend that I find it useful.


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## Kyle R (Sep 21, 2013)

I like to discuss it after the first draft is written, mostly. That way the creative process, as Gamer points out, is my own. But during the revision process, things like Structure and Theme and Motivation-Reactions come into play, and this is where fresh pairs of eyes can help.

So, I guess you could say I don't like to discuss my story during the initial creation, but I do like to discuss it when it's time to break things down and rebuild.


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## Newman (Sep 22, 2013)

Sam said:


> So if you don't discuss it, it won't be interesting? *Rolls eyes*




Idea cross-pollination will almost certainly make it more interesting.




J Anfinson said:


> It certainly can work, I'm just saying there's no guarantee, and since the only writer is you, its going to come down to how you execute it.




You execute better with a richer pool of ideas.




KyleColorado said:


> That way the creative process, as Gamer points out, is my own.




You're not losing or in any way diminishing the creative process just by sharing your story.


The creative process is you writing the ideas into a cohesive story.






OurJud said:


> over-discussing your WiP




I highly recommend it. The benefits are enormous.


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## Lewdog (Sep 22, 2013)

Newman I don't think that works with everyone though.  Some people just aren't as good of writers when doubt creeps into their mind, or there are too many things going on.  So when some writers have their plot and the background to their story all planned out, and they are excited about it, they expect the same from the people they share it with it.  If that doesn't happen, and instead their audience starts asking questions and making alternate suggestions that don't fit with the writer's plans, it throws everything off and the doubt starts to build, and that doubt can tear shreds in the writing process.


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## Sam (Sep 22, 2013)

Newman said:


> Idea cross-pollination will almost certainly make it more interesting.



No, the talent of the writer makes it interesting. Some of the greatest authors in the world are/were recluses. I don't imagine they engage/d in much 'cross-pollination'.


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## Jeko (Sep 22, 2013)

Newman, I can see you haven't suffered from what you advocate. But many writers have, including myself, and many writers will. So saying it's intrinsically beneficial to share your WIP in its drafting stage is wrong.

You may see it as pollination. Many see it as pollution.


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## Newman (Sep 22, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> Newman I don't think that works with everyone though. Some people just aren't as good of writers when doubt creeps into their mind, or there are too many things going on. So when some writers have their plot and the background to their story all planned out, and they are excited about it, they expect the same from the people they share it with it. If that doesn't happen, and instead their audience starts asking questions and making alternate suggestions that don't fit with the writer's plans, it throws everything off and the doubt starts to build, and that doubt can tear shreds in the writing process.



Fair enough. But then the thread's not really about "discussing your novel" but about "writer confidence" or some underlying fear.



Sam said:


> Some of the greatest authors in the world are/were recluses. I don't imagine they engage/d in much 'cross-pollination'.



It's not about being recluse, a hermit, introvert etc. It's about feedback. They will have had feedback from trusted sources early, not later.



Cadence said:


> Newman, I can see you haven't suffered from what you advocate. But many writers have, including myself, and many writers will. So saying it's intrinsically beneficial to share your WIP in its drafting stage is wrong.
> 
> You may see it as pollination. Many see it as pollution.



You're going to have to open up to an audience at some point.

You can do it after ten cocoon-drafts and your plot holes, character issues etc will come out.

Or you can do it from the get-go and all that comes out much sooner. Plus you're focusing on ideas that work because you're always testing them, learning to pitch the story and so much more.


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2013)

Newman said:


> Or you can do it from the get-go and all that comes out much sooner. Plus you're focusing on ideas that work because you're always testing them, learning to pitch the story and so much more.



You are a 'people person', aren't you?:-k

A fact that I have found is that shopping a piece of work around is just a lot of hassle between revisions (latest draft or no) and the uncertainty of when, if ever, you will get any response. One friend of mine, whose opinion I would most appreciate, has had a printed out copy of a short story of mine in his knapsack for weeks. At this point it is finished and his opinion, if any, no longer matters yet he is the one who reminds me he still has it. Non writers just don't get the sequencing of things, a response that is not pretty well 'now' is useless.:distrust:.


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## Jeko (Sep 23, 2013)

> You're going to have to open up to an audience at some point.



Yes, and if you open the cocoon before it's ready, you can spoil the butterfly.

I'm not saying that you should never ever talk about your novel as you work on it. Maybe that helps some people at certain stages of their life; it clearly helps you. I'm saying that it is really, really insensitive to many of the writers in the world who are trying to finish their work, and find that drafting with the door open ruins their work, to advocate that they should be talking about their WIP. 

Also, you're saying Stephen King is ill-informed.

Can I ask, Newman: have you ever finished a first draft?


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## Newman (Sep 23, 2013)

Blade said:


> You are a 'people person', aren't you?



You're suggesting that you're not a people person. You're suggesting that the issue is not about "discussing your WIP" but about you not being a people person. Different thing.



Blade said:


> A fact that I have found is that shopping a piece of work around is just a lot of hassle between revisions (latest draft or no) and the uncertainty of when, if ever, you will get any response. One friend of mine, whose opinion I would most appreciate, has had a printed out copy of a short story of mine in his knapsack for weeks. At this point it is finished and his opinion, if any, no longer matters yet he is the one who reminds me he still has it. Non writers just don't get the sequencing of things, a response that is not pretty well 'now' is useless..



Maybe he (or she) is not getting back to you because the story's just not good enough. It's called a "polite pass."



Cadence said:


> I'm saying that it is really, really insensitive to many of the writers in the world who are trying to finish their work, and find that drafting with the door open ruins their work, to advocate that they should be talking about their WIP.



I don't think I'm being insensitive at all. I happen to think it's hugely beneficial. I'm advocating it because of the benefits.



Cadence said:


> Also, you're saying Stephen King is ill-informed.



For every pro who says one thing, there's another who says the opposite.

Also, unless he said that to you in person, you don't really know. You're just quoting from somewhere.



Cadence said:


> Can I ask, Newman: have you ever finished a first draft?



You make it sound like it's difficult. It's not.



Cadence said:


> it clearly helps you.



There you have it.


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## Blade (Sep 23, 2013)

Newman said:


> You're suggesting that you're not a people person. You're suggesting that the issue is not about "discussing your WIP" but about you not being a people person. Different thing.
> 
> .



My suggestion would be 'overlap', if you are a more gregarious person you are more likely to be willing to show your work around and value the feedback you would receive. If you are more introverted or reclusive the very idea of pre-examination might seem absolutely dreadful. 

In any case I think most of the difference of opinion on the issue is a combination of personality and exactly what people you have available to evaluate the work. For myself I would hold close to a longer work especially just due to the turbulence it would arouse in being previewed.


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## Jeko (Sep 23, 2013)

> I don't think I'm being insensitive at all. I happen to think it's hugely beneficial. I'm advocating it because of the benefits.
> 
> For every pro who says one thing, there's another who says the opposite.
> 
> Also, unless he said that to you in person, you don't really know. You're just quoting from somewhere.



If you want to support your view:

1) Please give clear examples of these benefits, other than conjecture. 
2) Please give a quote from a 'pro' who says the opposite of Stephen King's advice (who reflects the advice of most writers I have come across)
3) Stephen King's advice comes from his own book, _On Writing_, which is highly regarded and contains a plethora of fantastic pieces of advice. Read it.



> You make it sound like it's difficult. It's not.



You sound like you're avoiding the question. I'll answer it; I have not. Partly because of what you advise.


Let me give this as a fact; if you think talking about your WIP is universally beneficial, you are dead wrong. I and many other writers know that from example and experience. That said, discussion may bear fruit to some extents - I stay away from it because it does more harm than good, and it does little good; that does not mean it does no good - my style of writing may simply be unable to harness that 'good'. I am not saying (and I repeat this) the reverse of your argument; in fact, I'm not even arguing. I'm asking you to be considerate to writers past and present who have found talking about their WIP to be a deadly business.


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## The Tourist (Sep 23, 2013)

OurJud said:


> I discussed that novel on here to such an extent that I was sick to the back teeth of it before I'd written 10,000 words.



I agree, I find the same experience, but with a slight difference.

I also feel "discussing" your story (usually by typing into a forum site) means that you're not working on the story itself.  For me, writing is more seasonal, a winter pursuit.  I'm looking for like-minded writers, creative people, but I also have to discipline myself to sign off.

I do not believe there is such a thing as multi-tasking.  Rather, I believe you can do many things at one time--poorly.  If you like writing, then soften the lighting, get a soothing beverage, stick your toes under the mutt's warm belly and become a real writer.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 23, 2013)

I think we should all remember that some things work for some writers, others don't. Personally, I'm a more reclusive person, yet I have betas I run my chapters by, but only those betas and do not discuss the novels otherwise because I then seem to lose interest (story already told). Thus, I don't think it has anything to do with personality but what individuals have found to work for them. If it works, do it. If it doesn't, don't.


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## DarkVamp9401 (Sep 23, 2013)

I need to discuss novel ideas with others and perhaps generate motivation and ideas from talking with them. Unfortunately i have experienced rather negative experiences in the past with this. Often the people around me had terrible ideas, or ideas that were not suitable for what i was writing. It doesn't help that i was at a special ED school where most of the pupils still acted like 7 year olds and thought movies like Epic Movie were funny (i will not discuss why i was there...apart from the fact i shouldn't have been, i was too "normal" for it). For example, they would try and suggest i involve stupid comedy that only 7 year olds would laugh at, characters from other fiction shoved in, dumb plot development, unlikable characters and just flat out juvenile crap. I was in the process of creating a script (which would eventually become the current project i am working on which is a novel...and its actually got effort and heart in it) and while i was doing so i was losing my friends during a school transfer, i had only my dad to look at the unfinished script, which he said was "good"...but he seemed a bit nervous when saying it, im sure he was only saying that to be nice since the script was a pile of rubbish. It never got finished due to losing interest and was falling apart (the plot got more incoherent and dumb), eventually i wanted to plan out doing the same story again but better, which evolved into something different and superior (in my opinion). Currently planning it out, but i am trying to prevent it from falling apart since i am half way through the story that i have in mind. I had to rewrite a certain part into something different since it started to really fall apart and get dull. 

But yeah, i would love to discuss plot ideas with people since well i need social interaction and it would help the story improve if i can come up with an idea good enough to put into the story. But i need like minded  and fun people, not ones that have severe mental development issues (no offense to anyone who does, i am referring to genuinely severe or moderate ones) or just generic commoners (label i give to people who i find very average with a boring personality). I am sorry if i sounded a bit mean saying those things, but i haven't had fun speaking to anyone as a friend in such a long time, and these two kinds are the only people who surround me right now. 

The point is that it depends on who you are around, helps if they are other people into creative writing (which these people weren't) since they would know much more than anyone else who isn't. 

Whew, that was quite a long post. Hope you guys enjoy.

Also, this is the most recent thing i wrote. http://www.writingforums.com/threads/141499-Shipwrecked-(Short-Story-2-515-words-and-Fantasy-Comedy) A rather silly and dumb story i think, doesn't represent the kind of stuff i want to write as a writer but its the first thing i have written and completed in a decade at least. I used to write stories when i was younger but trust me...they belong on fanfiction.net (shudder).


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## OurJud (Sep 23, 2013)

Cadence said:


> If you want to support your view:
> 
> 1) Please give clear examples of these benefits, other than conjecture.
> 2) Please give a quote from a 'pro' who says the opposite of Stephen King's advice (who reflects the advice of most writers I have come across)
> ...



I can't say I disagree with anything there, which perhaps makes me the biggest hypocrite here given how much I discussed my sci-fi novel attempt.

_But_, as I said in my original post, I learned the hard way, that it only serves to squash one's enthusiasm for the project, and from what I have seen elsewhere, most published authors agree that no _real_ benefits can come from discussing a WiP.

It may work for some - such as Newman, obviously, but that view is clearly in the minority.


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## Jeko (Sep 23, 2013)

> _But, as I said in my original post, I learned the hard way_



You raise an important point; one good benefit of the negative effects of WIP discussion is becoming more confident in your own abilities, as you learn that your WIP is your responsibility - and as other people can't write it for you, you must be able to write it yourself.


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## OurJud (Sep 23, 2013)

Indeed.


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## philistine (Sep 23, 2013)

When I rewrote my now completed novel or the third time, I didn't utter a single word of it until it was around eighty percent finished. Even then, I only discussed what was different to the previous write-ups; mostly small details, nothing major. 

For the novel I'm working on now, only my good friend (and fellow writer) knows that it's based on a short story I wrote previously, and nothing more. I'll be keeping it under my hat until it's done.

Writing for me, especially in recent times, has become almost a completely private thing. I don't mention it, don't discuss it, don't tell people I'm a writer- even when a segue is presented. It's better, I think.


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## Newman (Sep 23, 2013)

Cadence said:


> You sound like you're avoiding the question. I'll answer it; I have not.



I didn't answer because it was such a noob question.

You _haven't written a first draft_. Wow. Double wow with sauce.

Jesus - you seem to have been talking about it long enough - get on with it!




Cadence said:


> If you want to support your view



No need. The benefits are obvious, even you've said it:



Cadence said:


> it clearly helps you






Cadence said:


> conjecture.



If you haven't even written a first draft, then all of your 2991 posts so far are conjecture.



Cadence said:


> 3) Stephen King's advice comes from his own book, On Writing, which is highly regarded and contains a plethora of fantastic pieces of advice. Read it.



How do you know? You haven't even written a first draft. Maybe when you finish your first story, you'll realize that your process bears no relation to Stephen King's method at all.



Cadence said:


> Let me give this as a fact; if you think talking about your WIP is universally beneficial, you are dead wrong.



Now you're looking for an absolute or universal statement.

I will say this:

We know it clearly helps you:



Cadence said:


> it clearly helps you



So if you're not seeing the benefits, ask yourself what you're doing wrong.




Cadence said:


> You raise an important point; one good benefit of the negative effects of WIP discussion is becoming more confident in your own abilities, as you learn that your WIP is your responsibility - and as other people can't write it for you, you must be able to write it yourself.



Again, how do you know? If you haven't even written a first draft, you can't possibly know what kinds of interactions will lead to a finished write.



RyanJay said:


> The point is that it depends on who you are around, helps if they are other people into creative writing (which these people weren't) since they would know much more than anyone else who isn't.



You don't have to be around creative people to "tell the story" or "tell a sequence." You can tell it to the guy standing in front of you in line at the deli - you'll soon hear the gaps, see the plot holes, see what's working and what's not.

Then you can go and stand in line at Starbucks and do it all over again.

These people are, ultimately, going to watch your movie or buy your book. They'll tell you right there and then whether they'll pay $11 to see the movie.

You know, ask yourself, would you rather have the guy in front of you in the deli tell you your scene sucks? Or would you rather your agent tell you? That really is the choice.



OurJud said:


> It may work for some - such as Newman, obviously, but that view is clearly in the minority.



It may be the minority view here. Or it may be that the most vocal people are expressing the minority view. It certainly isn't a minority view elsewhere - post the question on other forums and see for yourself. It's actually standard to "tell the story" to help work it out.


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## Blade (Sep 23, 2013)

Newman said:


> You know, ask yourself, would you rather have the guy in front of you in the deli tell you your scene sucks? Or would you rather your agent tell you? That really is the choice.
> 
> The guy in front of me in the deli does not have the time to read my work and deliver back a effective evaluation before it is him turn to order and has no vested interest in the work in any case. An agent has both time and motivation.
> 
> ...



I heard today that Dostoevsky wrote _The Gambler _in 26 days.  You can't do something like that  chatting about it.:dejection:


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## Terry D (Sep 23, 2013)

Just how dead do we want this horse? Absoultely everything about the writing process is open to variation and experimentation. If you want to talk about your WIP, go ahead. If you want to write under the cover of darkness with the shades drawn, do it. If it works for you, great. There is no 'best' way. And a writer doesn't need to have finished a first draft to know if a technique works.


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## samiamthemustangman (Sep 23, 2013)

"You must be prepared to work always without applause. When you are excited about something is when the first draft is done. But no one can see it till you have gone over it again and again until you have communicated the emotion, the sight and sounds to the reader, and be the time you have completed this the words, sometimes, will not make sense to you as you read them, so many times have you re-read them. By the time the book comes out you will have started something else and it is all behind you and you do not want to hear about it." -By -Line: Ernest Hemingway


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## shadowwalker (Sep 24, 2013)

samiamthemustangman said:


> -By -Line: Ernest Hemingway



Don't take everything Ernie said as gospel   He also said something about the first draft is always crap - and that doesn't hold true either. Try things - if they work, they work. If they don't, try something else.


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## Jeko (Sep 24, 2013)

Okay, Newman. I can see I'm not getting anywhere.

For me and many writers, talking about your WIP does more harm than good. For you and some other writers, talking about it, it would appear, does more good than harm. 

My only issue is that even though you say that professional writers' opinions will differ, you still say that discussing your WIP is definitely beneficial. Clearly it can work against some writers. I would argue, from what I've read and researched, that it works against the majority.

Case in point (and back to the OP), OurJud believes that his discussions have hampered the progress of his writing, and I would agree.


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## Gavrushka (Sep 24, 2013)

You know, the somewhat frank exchanges in this thread have set me to thinking. I've completed three long stories with *some* input from third parties, and not one of them is really as I would have envisaged at the outset. - I think I can say that the input was helpful in my development as a writer, but a hindrance to the stories I'd discussed whilst in progress...

...A couple of weeks ago, I wrote a short story (my first) without any discussions until it was finished, and I can see a huge difference in the clarity of it. Writing is not like maths, and pouring several doses of creative subjectivity into the same cauldron is likely to end up with an interesting brew... As to whether it is potable or not, is a very different matter.

I think I will be producing first drafts without any discussion in future, but fully appreciate that's not for everyone.


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