# Self Publishing Advice Needed



## DriftingMind (Jun 16, 2018)

Hello,

In 2017 I wrote a nonfiction book. It's about 295 pages. I printed it, created a cover and bound it together. Since then, I haven't gained much traction. My original goal was to print about a hundred copies to give away and see what feedback was received.

That didn't happen. Only a few people have read parts of it. The feedback received was decent.

With that said, I haven't been able to find local beta readers for additional feedback. I've tried different libraries without much luck.  I've also looked for literary agents, publishers, and acquisitions-editors online. I've tried looking through search engines, Linkedin and Twitter - notta. Part of the problem is that I don't want to send it via e-mail nor snail mail to different publishing companies. For another words I wanted to find a local publisher or at least one in the vicinity. I’m currently in Florida.

At this point I'm thinking about simply releasing it myself. This is where I could use some feedback. My grammar isn’t great, but I do think it is very readable. I don't have money for marketing. I can't think of many free avenues that will work for me either. I don't have droves of twitter followers, ect. I’m not well known.

I wrote a press release. The idea is to print a bunch of copies and leave them at different places. Plus, I figure I'll post it on my blog, twitter, ect. I'm thinking I'm gonna print and bind every book I sell. I guess that is self-publishing in every sense of the word. I believe that leaves out Amazon self-publishing (though I don't completely understand their guidelines). It also leaves out selling via amazon services as the $39.99 simply un-affordable.

That’s where I'm at. I got a book, printer, and a press release .... As of now the plan is to create some kind of paypal checkout on my website and sell it through the website starting in July.

Any additional ideas will be greatly appreciated.


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## Jack of all trades (Jun 16, 2018)

DriftingMind said:


> Hello,
> 
> In 2017 I wrote a nonfiction book. It's about 295 pages. I printed it, created a cover and bound it together. Since then, I haven't gained much traction. My original goal was to print about a hundred copies to give away and see what feedback was received.
> 
> ...



Why so little feedback? Only a few people and only parts? 

You mean "nada" not "notta". Have you at least run a spelling and grammar check? Nothing kills the credibility of a nonfiction book than misspelled words, run-on sentences, and typos! 

I suggest you file for a copyright, if you're concerned about someone stealing your book, then having it fully beta read. What's the subject?


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 17, 2018)

There is a beta section in the forum, I believe you can find beta readers there (never used it m'self.)
I'm curious; aside from the novela, have you written much else?


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## Jack of all trades (Jun 17, 2018)

Ralph Rotten said:


> There is a beta section in the forum, I believe you can find beta readers there (never used it m'self.)
> I'm curious; aside from the novela, have you written much else?



It's not a novella. It's nonfiction.


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## steve_tiano (Jun 18, 2018)

First of all, does your book look lie it's been thru professional design and production? Was it it edited by a professional? Beta readers are nice, but they're usually amateurs (no matter how literate or educated). Often they're friends of the author or they're also authors trading readings with other writers. That's all ... well, cute, but it's more than likely going to mark your book as "amateur." Or did you use one of the templated services, like CreateSpace--they're fine for printing, but their work, like many other "bookmills," have that one size-fits-all-look.

When you decide to self-publish, you've made a decision to go into business as a publisher--even if just one time for just one book. That means you need to make an investment--not just of sweat equity, doing it all yourself (if you're not a professional editor or book designer)--as any businessperson would make in their business. You need to have someone with a cold professional eye, objective, whose job it is to make books the best they can be, edit and design and lay out (not just "format) your book.

And after that--actually, from the moment you begin writing your book--you should be blogging, paritcipating in forums, speaking at libraries to readers' groups, about books. Not just saying, "Buy me! Buy my book!" but engaging with potential readers who love to read. You prob'ly should engage someone who is professionally involved in promoting books, particularly self-published books.

Good luck going forward!

Steve Tiano


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## Mikeyboy_esq (Jun 18, 2018)

If it was me, I'd try to find beta readers who are experts on the topic of your book. If that is not possible, you can try to find groups who are made up of folks in your book's target audience.  For example, my first book was about college teaching advice and I found 4 professors/retired professors to read my book manuscript and give me feedback.  This feedback was very valuable and I was able to finalized my manuscript and then move on to hire a professional editor for copyediting (which I strongly recommend for your book if you can afford it).

One idea you can consider to keep down publishing costs is to produce an eBook via KDP or a similar eBook distributor.  That way you can price it whatever you want.  Good luck!


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## DriftingMind (Jun 19, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> Why so little feedback? Only a few people and only parts?
> 
> You mean "nada" not "notta". Have you at least run a spelling and grammar check? Nothing kills the credibility of a nonfiction book than misspelled words, run-on sentences, and typos!


There were a variety of different reasons for the lack of feedback. 

Ha, ha, I defiantly use slang words in the book. It's probably not for those who go into a state of shock at the sight of a misspelled word. At least not in its present state. Though, I did run it through a few different spell checks. I also edited it myself multiple times. Still, I am only one person, and like most make mistakes.

In a couple weeks I'll release the press release. That'll have info on the subject, ect. 

Thanks for your reply.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 19, 2018)

Ralph Rotten said:


> There is a beta section in the forum, I believe you can find beta readers there (never used it m'self.)
> I'm curious; aside from the novela, have you written much else?



As far as books, this is the first book I've written. I was looking for local beta readers.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 19, 2018)

steve_tiano said:


> *First of all, does your book look lie it's been thru professional design and production? *
> 
> I designed the cover and printed it myself. I'm ok with the way it looks. Plus, I feel like that fact separates it from other books. When someone purchases this book, it will be printed and bound personally by the author.
> 
> ...


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## DriftingMind (Jun 19, 2018)

Mikeyboy_esq said:


> If it was me, I'd try to find beta readers who are experts on the topic of your book. If that is not possible, you can try to find groups who are made up of folks in your book's target audience.  For example, my first book was about college teaching advice and I found 4 professors/retired professors to read my book manuscript and give me feedback.  This feedback was very valuable and I was able to finalized my manuscript and then move on to hire a professional editor for copyediting (which I strongly recommend for your book if you can afford it).
> 
> One idea you can consider to keep down publishing costs is to produce an eBook via KDP or a similar eBook distributor.  That way you can price it whatever you want.  Good luck!



Thanks for your reply. I think thats part of the reason I'm going forward with self publishing. I received decent feedback from those who read parts of the book. I haven't been able to find a professional to take a look at the book.


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## Jack of all trades (Jun 19, 2018)

DriftingMind said:


> There were a verity of different reasons for the lack of feedback.
> 
> Ha, ha, I defiantly use slang words in the book. It's probably not for those who go into a state of shock at the sight of a misspelled word. At least not in its present state. Though, I did run it through a few different spell checks. I also edited it myself multiple times. Still, I am only one person, and like most make mistakes.
> 
> ...



I see this as a credibility issue. How can a reader believe you are knowledgeable about the subject if there are misspellings. You need someone to read it and point out errors. You only get one chance to make a first impression.

A professional editor can be quite expensive. I understand that. But at least have someone take a look at it. Post one chapter in the Prose Workshop to get free feedback.


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## Larry952 (Jun 19, 2018)

If you want people to pay nearly $40 for a copy of your book, it has to impress.  The cover design is the first thing a person sees, and yes, people do judge a book by the cover.  Hire a professional cover designer.  It'll cost a couple hundred bucks, but the investment will pay off.  A beta reader is an excellent idea.  Starr Waddell at Quiethouse Editing can connect you with an excellent beta reader.  Again, this will cost something, but again, the investment will pay off.  Since your writing is not very polished, get help.  Poor grammar, poor sentence structure, poor paragraph construction are huge turnoffs.  Take the time and spend the money to make your book look and be as good as it can be.  Aim to impress.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 19, 2018)

Larry952 said:


> If you want people to pay nearly $40 for a copy of your book, it has to impress.  The cover design is the first thing a person sees, and yes, people do judge a book by the cover.  Hire a professional cover designer.  It'll cost a couple hundred bucks, but the investment will pay off.  A beta reader is an excellent idea.  Starr Waddell at Quiethouse Editing can connect you with an excellent beta reader.  Again, this will cost something, but again, the investment will pay off.  Since your writing is not very polished, get help.  Poor grammar, poor sentence structure, poor paragraph construction are huge turnoffs.  Take the time and spend the money to make your book look and be as good as it can be.  Aim to impress.



I'm not sure you are replying to the correct post? I don't think I could sleep good at night charging even close to that amount. lol  Though I can say I put a lot of work and time into this book. I don't know if I'd say my writing isn't polished. The book has over 70 thousand words. I'd imagine there might be errors I missed. We're on different pages.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 19, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> I see this as a credibility issue. How can a reader believe you are knowledgeable about the subject if there are misspellings. You need someone to read it and point out errors. You only get one chance to make a first impression.
> 
> A professional editor can be quite expensive. I understand that. But at least have someone take a look at it. Post one chapter in the Prose Workshop to get free feedback.



I don't see the link between spelling and knowledge on a specific subject. Regardless of spelling, in this case the subject matter shouldn't be an issue.


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## Jack of all trades (Jun 19, 2018)

DriftingMind said:


> I don't see the link between spelling and knowledge on a specific subject. Regardless of spelling, in this case the subject matter shouldn't be an issue.



Basic psychology. Most people believe someone who can't spell isn't intelligent. I'm not arguing for or against that, just saying you need to address it.

What's the subject matter?

And why do you think you should make this book available to folks?


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## Larry952 (Jun 19, 2018)

Poor spelling, poor grammar, poor diction, all of these things can be a distraction that prevents a person from taking a book seriously.  It's hard to hear criticism, but every writer has to put aside his/her emotional attachment to the work, realize criticism is meant to be helpful and is not a personal attack on the writer.  I would be surprised if a writer found an editor or a beta reader that feels good editing is not important to the success of a book, whether fiction or nonfiction.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 20, 2018)

Larry952 said:


> Poor spelling, poor grammar, poor diction, all of these things can be a distraction that prevents a person from taking a book seriously.  It's hard to hear criticism, but every writer has to put aside his/her emotional attachment to the work, realize criticism is meant to be helpful and is not a personal attack on the writer.  I would be surprised if a writer found an editor or a beta reader that feels good editing is not important to the success of a book, whether fiction or nonfiction.



I don't disagree. As mentioned, I tried everything I could think of to find additional beta readers. I don’t have the money for an actual editor. That is why I was looking for literary agents, publishers, and acquisitions-editors. I also did the best I could to prevent the types of distractions mentioned. I think it is readable.


I understand that sometimes it is difficult to take criticism. Especially, after working many years on a book. I think I'm pretty good with criticism, if given with good intentions. That doesn't mean I'll always agree with all the feedback received.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 20, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> Basic psychology. Most people believe someone who can't spell isn't intelligent. I'm not arguing for or against that, just saying you need to address it.
> 
> What's the subject matter?
> 
> And why do you think you should make this book available to folks?


 

 I'm not trying to avoid your questions. However, they are both addressed on the press release. I don't want to go into those types of details publicly yet.


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## Jack of all trades (Jun 20, 2018)

DriftingMind said:


> I'm not trying to avoid your questions. However, they are both addressed on the press release. I don't want to go into those types of details publicly yet.



Then post the press release in the prose workshop, which is members only.

I have some concerns that your book is not as readable as you think, and that's why no one finished reading it.

I had a similar problem with my first novel. Mine was fiction, but the point is still valid. I had a spot, about 1/3 of the way through, if I recall correctly, where everything seemed wrapped up. Beta readers just never finished the book. They enjoyed what they read, and gave personal life excuses for not finishing, but it bothered me, nevertheless. After consideration, and a little more questioning, I was able to determine the problem and address it.

People are sometimes too kind to come right out and tell you what you need to know. They value the relationship, so they avoid hurting your feelings.

The fact that no beta reader has read the whole thing is a huge red flag. I strongly encourage you to stop and get feedback here before deciding your next step. I think you'll find a couple folks are willing to critique a press release and a chapter for free.

I totally understand the financial burdens and not having money to pay for an editor. I struggle with finances, too. Just don't be in a rush. Keep looking for affordable options. As I said, posting one chapter here is free. Maybe you can get enough feedback to address issues throughout the book. It's a start, at any rate.

I hope you understand that I'm trying to be helpful.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 20, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> The fact that no beta reader has read the whole thing is a huge red flag. I strongly encourage you to stop and get feedback here before deciding your next step. I think you'll find a couple folks are willing to critique a press release and a chapter for free.



It seems like you are under the assumption that I am in the same situation as you were with your book. I'm not. The reasons beta readers only read parts of the book are not what you might think. Same with the reasons for lack of beta readers.

I don't have access to the prose section of this website, nor do I want to post any parts of the book online. I am firm about that.

The press release has been proof read by qualified individuals and additional positive feedback has been received.

I understand you are trying to help. However, I’m looking for creative ideas to get the word out about the book. I’ve already taken into consideration the things you’ve mentioned. I’ve weighed the options, and as of now, I’ve decided to go forward with publishing the book.


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## Jack of all trades (Jun 20, 2018)

DriftingMind said:


> It seems like you are under the assumption that I am in the same situation as you were with your book. I'm not. The reasons beta readers only read parts of the book are not what you might think. Same with the reasons for lack of beta readers.
> 
> I don't have access to the prose section of this website, nor do I want to post any parts of the book online. I am firm about that.
> 
> ...



Every member has access to the prose workshop. If you're having difficulty finding it, PM me or a mod or a mentor.

As for the rest, all I have to say at this point is good luck with your project.


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## H.Brown (Jun 20, 2018)

https://www.writingforums.com/forums/11-Prose-Writers-Workshop

You will find the prose workshop above. If you do not wish to share your work online (while I understand that decisio) but you want beta readers. We have a beta reading forum that could be helpful to you, here:

https://www.writingforums.com/forums/215-Beta-Reading

Why not have a look at the rules of the forum, but maybe this might be what your looking for. Free Beta readers.


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## DriftingMind (Jun 21, 2018)

H.Brown said:


> https://www.writingforums.com/forums/11-Prose-Writers-Workshop
> 
> You will find the prose workshop above. If you do not wish to share your work online (while I understand that decisio) but you want beta readers. We have a beta reading forum that could be helpful to you, here:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info.


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## Pete_C (Jun 24, 2018)

The biggest challenge is that you want ideas to promote a book but you won’t disclose the subject matter nor share any details. Marketing doesn’t work like that.

Here’s the deal: I’ll guarantee to give you a solid way to promote your book if you can tell me how to sell the thing that’s on my desk right now.

It seems like I’m taking the piss, but that’s actually what you’re asking from us, marketing ideas for an unknown work.

If you give people a bit of information they might be able to help. If you don’t, they can’t.


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## Galen (Oct 31, 2019)

Do you have a website or blog?

If you do, you may want to add the link to your signature.


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## RWK (Mar 9, 2020)

Publish your book on Amazon, and see what happens. Write another one while you're waiting for the results.

There are literally thousands of indie authors all pimping their work (myself included), so the only way you're going to make any headway (IMO) is to get your work out there. Buying a book bound by the author is interesting, but not IMO a good way to go; that means that as a buyer you are entrusting credit card data to an individual, and must wait to read your book. 

Whereas on Amazon your payment data is secure, and thirty seconds after you click 'buy' the book is available to read. Plus you can read the first 10% for free. Or, if you just have to have a print copy, you get it fast. Myself, I sell a thousand e-books for every print copy I sell, and frankly, the profit margin on e-books is higher. 

I would avid too much use of slang, as I have found that a surprising number of readers in non-English-speaking countries buy books in English, and US slang terms can detract from the plot. 

There's my two cents worth; I'll e-mail you a bill.


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## RWK (Mar 9, 2020)

Biro said:


> Zombie thread.
> 
> I wouldn't waste your time self publishing on Amazon.  It's possibly good for getting books printed but selling is a waste of time............unless you learn all about marketing your book.



I didn't notice the date!:crushed:

I've been using Amazon for years, and it's done pretty well for me. YRMV, of course.


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## bdcharles (Mar 9, 2020)

Biro said:


> What does YRMV mean?



It's something like "your results may vary" - in other words: for what it's worth, that's the process that worked for the other person and they got such-and-such an outcome; it may or may not be quite that way for you, but still worth a shot.


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## RWK (Mar 9, 2020)

Biro said:


> Yes I suppose its down to what your book is about.  Anybody selling any book about dealing or surviving Coronavirus would do well now.  Write fiction novels even with 4 and 5 star reviews and you wont be dining out much on the profits.



I have twenty-one novels, all fiction, through Amazon; sales have been very good lately, and steady on a yearly basis.


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## RWK (Mar 9, 2020)

Biro said:


> Interesting.  What are they?  You must let us in to your secrets?



Go to amazon, search 'RW Krpoun'

My secret? Very simple: write 21 novels, and don't concern yourself with making money. :wink2:

I price 'em to move.


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## RWK (Mar 9, 2020)

Biro said:


> Impressive but what do you mean by dont concern yourself with making money?  I understand the profits from Amazon are low.  Did you advertise with them or other?



The profits are great; most of my books draw 70%. What I meant is that I keep the prices low; I've only got one e-book over $2.99


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## alice_attarado (Mar 11, 2020)

I feel like I'm missing something big here, but the obvious next step would be to publish a half of the book on the internet and then spend couple of hundrest advertising it. This might not be enough to gain the world but at least should bring enough beta readers. And then you can sell paper book to those who would want to read the second half.


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## alice_attarado (Mar 12, 2020)

Biro said:


> But then all of your time and hidden expences have to come into play as well.
> I have never seen any proof off anyone regards profit from book sales.



I wouldn't even dare to expect any profits not only from the first book, but I'd say from the first dozen. Having somebody reading your stuff is already something I'd be happy to pay for myself


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## luckyscars (Mar 12, 2020)

Kind of an old thread to be reviving, but here's a couple comments:

Self-publishing requires a huge amount of time and investment to generate any sales, much less profit. If you're not 100% committed (mentally, physically, and financially) you may as well take your book and throw it in the fire. Sounds dramatic? It isn't. The moment you self-publish you kiss goodnight to a huge number of opportunities for traditional publishing. While some -- _some -- _agents and publishers will publish previously-self-published work, a huge number consider it an automatic no. 

People do make money self publishing. Ralph Rotten on here does. Bayview does. Several others do. A lot? Probably not, but if you're in writing for money you're deluding yourself anyway. The point is to sell enough to achieve a measurable indicator of how people connect with your art, right? Maybe get a little side income, if you're lucky? That's a realistic goal, and it is possible through self-publishing. But, again, it's a dollar's worth of work for every penny's worth of profit and if you're not able or willing to put in the resources it's pointless.

I have self-published but considered it a bit of a lark. I did not self-publish material I was able to sell anywhere else. I consider those stories to be history, as far as publishable products. Doesn't bother me, but if that bothers you with your book, you should probably think again.




Biro said:


> I imagine books sell from what people look for.  At present it may be .........How to make your own hand sanitiser..........How to survive Coronavirus...........Who and why the virus started.



That's popular interest and it can sell, sure... for a month or two. Non-fiction generally is a difficult thing to sell unless you have the bonafides, so a book of something like coronavirus would actually probably only sell well if it was written by somebody with a PhD/MD beside their name. People who buy _books _on things tend to be somewhat discerning. They aren't going to hand over $10 on Biro's thoughts about pandemics.

In all practicality, it's a bad take. Writing a (decent) book takes time and invariably if you try to write as an opportunist chasing an easy buck, you're probably going to waste your time. Because either the book will be a crock of shite or it won't be, in which case you are incredibly unlikely to finish it before the issue at hand -- be it coronavirus, dangerous dogs, or Meghan Markle, have largely fallen out of the news-cycle. 

In truth, people do buy books about just about anything, even really niche stuff. The subject matter isn't so much important as is the execution of the idea, the way it is presented/marketed, and (especially in non fiction) the credentials of the author/their relationship to the content and audience. And the reviews/ratings/recommendations, which invariably comes down to quality and marketing. So it seems to me pretty obvious the best way to sell a book is to (1) Make sure it's a good book and (2) Make sure people know about it. The best way to do this is open for debate.


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## Ma'am (Mar 12, 2020)

I know a very few people who do make full-time pay self-publishing and more who make decent part-time pay, so yes, it can be done. However, they have a good grasp of how to actually write, first of all, which as we see, many self-publishers do not. Second, they work their butts off. They put out a lot of books of the same type and spend a couple/few years doing it before the money even starts rolling in at all.

There's really nothing more to it than that. I now make about a hundred a month from a few books under two main pen names but I haven't put out anything new in two years, maybe three by now so it's tapering off from twice that much. That's not much but simple math really shows the deal. When I decide to quit being lazy and get busy again, I've got a few books already out there under each name, and the amount per month per book average goes up with more books under each name.

Let's pretend I haven't been a sloth lately and go back to a year or so ago, $200 a month for a dozen books. But about half those are short how-to books that only took a couple weeks to write, however that figures in.

Let's round it down, $200 per month for 10 books = $20 per month, per book. (If your books aren't well done or you only have one or two out there, you may not make anything yet).

Say I keep putting them out there, four per year. In five more years, I'd have 30 books out there. At $20 per month each- the rate I actually got when I was actively adding to it so no stretch of the imagination there- that would be $600 (USD) per month. Okay, now we're getting somewhere. But, we'd expect the averaged amount made per book to go up as well with a higher number of titles, so maybe $30 per month per book would be a more accurate guess. 30 books x $30 per month = $900 per month, or $10,800 per year. That's starting to look like  side job pay.

To keep extrapolating, say five more years of 4 more books per year each (ten more years total, starting with the ten books). That would be 50 books out there, and say the sales of each continued to climb due to that growing name recognition (which, again, is typical). Double it by then to $60 per month, per book- (and I am guessing here because of course I can't predict how much the amount rises, only that it does rise). Anyway, 50 books out there times $60 per month each is $3,000 per month, or $36,000 per year, which is what a lot of blue collar jobs pay. 

Add another five years and you're well into the equivalent of a decent middle class salary- but that's after fifteen years plus.

So, it's really not hard to see how to do it. If I kept doing what I was doing, a trickle of income can logically be expected to become a stream and a stream becomes a river. That's without lucking into anything big, without being picked up by an agent, without any advertising or paying attention to what sells, just plodding along.

But, it's work and takes time and effort. Those who only self-publish one or two books aren't likely to make much, if anything. And obviously, if you do it, do it for the love, because it does not compare well at all to making a steady salary from a "real job" for the ten or more years of steady, decent quality output that it takes to get to "living wage" level.


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## Ma'am (Mar 12, 2020)

Catching a trend early and quickly whipping together a nonfiction book on it could be a great idea for a try at making some quick cash. However, I think coronavirus is already too well known so the big, quick cash chance on it is over. 

It is, of course, a different animal than a novel. You have to get in early, write quickly, and not expect the profits to continue for very long.

There are always new things on the horizon. I've gotten ideas just from googling "trends" and looking through what comes up to see if anything catches my eye. Haven't followed through on it myself yet, though. If you specialized in one area, that would help you gain credibility, too. For ex. food trends, pop culture trends, etc. Just with "hot" products/food trends, I bet some lil self-publishers made a quick buck over info. on CBD oil, matcha, hot air fryers, the coconut oil craze, liquored up popsicles and the alcoholic drinks with smoke rising from them (forgot what they're called) and a zillion others.

Also, what I've found is if you price your nonfiction books reasonably low, you can get some add-on sales, is how I think of them. This is just based on how *I* shop, but I picture someone buying the expensive book from the big name authority on some types of topics, seeing mine, and thinking, what the heck, may as well pick up that one (mine), too. 

And there are plenty of topics that you don't find much in the way of big names on, on an Amazon search. Doing things on the cheap is one, since many of the big names focus on selling products, not how to get around buying them. Also, smaller or niche topics that don't have a large enough audience for it to be profitable for the big name pros might have enough of an audience to be profitable to you.

You can also make some money by enrolling in whatever that Amazon program is called where people can pay $10 a month and borrow ten enrolled books at at time. You only get like half a penny per page that they actually click on, but it all adds up. They're far more likely to consider what a "nobody" has to say when they don't have to pay extra to hear it. (And of course you'll build a reputation for knowing what you are talking about).


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## RWK (Mar 12, 2020)

Biro said:


> I agree with all you say LS but even books with the best of genuine reviews do not sell.  Getting people interested is the hardest thing..............in the way Amazon is set up anyway.



My books are selling.

I'm not making anything close to a living (I don't write for the money), but I get a check every month.

What was your experience with Amazon?


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## RWK (Mar 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> With any product it has to be displayed or advertised so that the public can see it to be interested in it.  How you do this is the key to the beginning of success with anything.
> 
> Amazon allows you to advertise your book to people who are looking for 'other products'.  Basically pointless.
> 
> ...



The reason I'm asking is that you seem to have a grudge against Amazon. I known a lot of Amazon-based authors who are doing very well in financial terms (I'm not one of them). I was asking because I wanted to help if I could.

It is tough making it as an indie writer; most authors sell less that 100 copies of their work to strangers. Most '
advertising' schemes are just ploys to make a easy buck of the desperate hopes of writers.

I don't spend money advertising. Or on covers (except for three).

What genre are you writing in?


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## Ralph Rotten (Mar 13, 2020)

People should not look at self-publishing as 'the easy way'.
To Indie publish properly is far more work than going through a publishing house.
Self-publishing is something that should be given serious thought.

Why?
Because to do it right, you need a broad set of skills. Not only do you need to be a competent writer, but you need to have mastered a number of software platforms, have marketing skills & internet presence, be skilled in cover design, and have at least proficient skills in web building and html.


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## Ralph Rotten (Mar 13, 2020)

...and even with all the skills there is no guarantee of success.


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## RWK (Mar 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> Wow.  I suppose thats the problem with the internet and not face to face conversation.  I didnt know I was giving that impression.  I do not have any issue with Amazon.
> 
> I used to until fairly recently be involved in internet marketing so I know exactly how it works.
> 
> ...



OK, I misunderstood.


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## RWK (Mar 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> No worries.  I too thought it was a great idea to sell on Amazon.  If you are geared up for such it must be a great business.  One off's or just a few books.  Not so good even with 5 star genuine reviews.  Hence their are other ways.



It's OK. It's a hobby for me, but I do make some money. All my reviews are genuine; they're nice for the ego, but they don't really sell anything anymore.

So how are you selling your book?


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## RWK (Mar 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> Well if nothing else goes wrong as it does keep doing (car smash yesterday)  It is on Amazon at present but as soon as the Kdp thing is finished I will try new idea I have.  I have stopped advertising it at present.  I tried Amazon Ads but they would only show for $1.00 upwards and at 33% or .37cents profit it doesnt take long to realise something amiss.  I have found from others that if you increase price then the interest stops.........cheap and cheerful all the way with Joe Public as you said.



Yeah, you want to hover in the$2.99 range, which lets you play the count down game. 0.99 is only for the first of an established series; otherwise people assume it's garbage. 

What's your genre?


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## EntrepreneurRideAlong (Mar 13, 2020)

DriftingMind said:


> Hello,
> 
> That leaves out Amazon self-publishing (though I don't completely understand their guidelines). It also leaves out selling via amazon services as the $39.99 simply un-affordable.



Have you looked into the Amazon KDP program? I self published my book in 2017 (now has print/eBook/audio version). It was SUPER simple. Amazon helps you with the marketing side of things too, you can pay for ads to drive traffic to your sales page. Plus, they will print/bind and ship to your customer (for a fee) so that you don't have to hold inventory.


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## RWK (Mar 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> Its a fiction novel



Well, that's better than non-fiction, but with only one book the odds are against you. Developing a following is the best way to pimp your work, and for that, you need more than one book.

Still, patience is the key.


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## lmpierce (Apr 25, 2020)

Really appreciate all the advice given so far - though this is an old thread, I'm heartened to see many people encouraging the OP to take the time to develop quality product and paying out where it is needed. I'm also concerned about the defensiveness I often see in people who are new to publishing. That, I really think, is one of the major problems with self-publishing. People don't look at it as a kind of business venture, even if you're not looking to make money, and then bemoan when nothing happens or their book disappears into the very deep dungeons of Amazon listings. Also, even if you're doing it for the art and ego, I implore people to think outside of themselves. Spray painting a dick and balls on a fence might be art to you, but to most people it is vandalism and not that great to look at. Consider whether you're creating art, which involves time, sweat, tears, and yeah, often times, money (quality paint ain't cheap), or whether you're just popping down to Walmart for a can of spray and then vandalizing a fence. 

I have one book published through a small press and am amping up for my first self-published project in June. I'm nervous and scared and guess what? Even through a professional publish - even through all the podcast interviews, blog tours, press releases I wrote, and marketing I did... my book even got an honorable mention in a contest... it hasn't done "great." Why? Because it's gritty and has a lot of offensive content, it's not a book for everyone. (It's Trans Liberty Riot Brigade, if anyone's curious) AND I haven't written books 2 and 3 yet. That's on me. But I love the real reviews I received and I love the story and character. I'll get there. My self-publishing project is also a heart project and I'm pumping a lot of money into it to make sure it gets done well. I have the privilege to be able to do that - that's not true for everyone. But so much of the support and "free" help I've received has been through a writers group I've been a member of for many years and, coincidentally, through this very forum (that was eons ago it feels like now). Returning to this space feels like a full circle thing and I'm delighted to see it has survived. The advice, encouragement, and wisdom I received as a young writer with chops but no experience, has been absolutely invaluable. 

Sorry, got wistful there. All that to say, thanks for the offerings of experience and knowledge in this thread!


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## apocalypsegal (May 15, 2020)

Ralph Rotten said:


> ...and even with all the skills there is no guarantee of success.



I think this is the hardest thing to get across. Even with traditional publishing, you have no guarantees. People think self publishing is some kind of magic road to fame and fortune, but the majority have no clue how to actually be a publisher. Most can't write, either.

Anyway...



> I am looking at other ways with ideas I have to advertise and sell my book unrelated to Amazon.



Well, good luck with that. Unless you have the chops to sell on your own, then you're sunk. You have to know how to get readers who want to buy your book, and get them to where you're selling it. It's not easy, and it's not free.

The first mistake you made was in going ahead with printing your book. That's never going to be the right path for 99.9999% of people. Again, if you have a following, people who would buy the book, then you might be able to pull if off. Even then, you get outside eyes on the work before you print. You hire an editor, especially if you know you don't have the skills to write properly, which you've admitted. You get beta readers with some interest in the topic, ask for specific feedback (where do you lose interest, where do you get confused, can I explain this point better, etc.), and then decide if the feedback is relevant.

Also, you research your genre/topic. Find other books, look at how they're written, how the covers are done, what the descriptions say or don't say.

Like it or not, for most of the world, Amazon is the top dog platform to sell our books. There are more eyes there than just about anywhere, you can easily set up ads (another thing you need to study), and they take care of the delivery, and set up your tax form for the end of the year. No on avoids the tax man.


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## RD Meyer (Jun 13, 2020)

Finding that "viral moment" for a newbie, whether through traditional publishing or indie publishing, is the biggest challenge.  Once noticed, then getting repeat business is easier.  It's kind of like not being able to get a loan unless you prove you don't need it.  :razz:


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## indianroads (Jun 18, 2020)

First, get your book as polished as you possibly can. Writing it is only the first step - the real (and less fun) part starts next. Take notes as you edit, edit, and edit - searching for plot holes, inconsistent (or unnecessary) characters, lame descriptions, the list goes on. There are some decent books on Amazon about editing that might help - they won't make you a pro, but that's not the point - you just want to get the low hanging fruit before you spend the bucks on an editor. I use grammarly for grammar checking, but often overrule it - the free version plug in for MS Words does a decent job. 

You'll also need to get your book blurb (product description) nailed down. If it isn't solid, finding anyone to look at you work is tough.

Second, now that your work is in decent shape, look for beta readers, but, as was said, be aware that they're usually amateurs. Mine fortunately is an ex-school teacher (taught English); if you can find someone similar you've struck gold. There are many Writer's Groups around, join one if you can, otherwise, as was suggested, look for beta readers here.

Beyond that, there are many on-line sites where you can get help - editors, cover designers, and a lot more. Reedsy is my favorite. 

Third, once you've got a solid manuscript and cover design, self publishing isn't too difficult. I use Amazon (KDP); they give you a templet to format your book for publishing, along with guidance on the size needed for your cover. You can get an Amazon ISBN from them too. I publish both Kindle and paperback versions there. 

After all that, all that's left is marketing - which I suck at, and so will shut up now.


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## James Leggott (Jun 26, 2020)

I mostly write novels for myself and while it's sad that I can't get many readers, it's nice to get some little extra money.


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## Taylor (Jun 27, 2020)

DriftingMind said:


> As far as books, this is the first book I've written. I was looking for local beta readers.



Just curious.  Why do you prefer local beta readers?


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## Taylor (Jul 12, 2020)

RWK said:


> I have twenty-one novels, all fiction, through Amazon; sales have been very good lately, and steady on a yearly basis.



That's impressive!  Do you have a website or a blog that you are willing to share?


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## Taylor (Jul 12, 2020)

Taylor said:


> That's impressive!  Do you have a website or a blog that you are willing to share?



I found it on Amazon.  Very impresive indeed!!


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## Taylor (Jul 12, 2020)

indianroads said:


> Third, once you've got a solid manuscript and cover design, self publishing isn't too difficult. I use Amazon (KDP); they give you a templet to format your book for publishing, along with guidance on the size needed for your cover. You can get an Amazon ISBN from them too. I publish both Kindle and paperback versions there.



Your covers are very striking!  How did you decide on a cover designer?  Did you provide the ideas to the designer? How many mockups did you look at before you approved it?


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## indianroads (Jul 13, 2020)

Taylor said:


> Your covers are very striking!  How did you decide on a cover designer?  Did you provide the ideas to the designer? How many mockups did you look at before you approved it?



Check out Reedsy.com. I found my designer on their Marketplace. They display their works there and you can contact and talk with the designer before you commit.


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## Ralph Rotten (Sep 7, 2021)

If this is yo


DriftingMind said:


> As far as books, this is the first book I've written. I was looking for local beta readers.


If this is your first book, then toss it aside. Don't polish a turd. Just get back in the saddle and write more.
Really you should not even consider publishing until you have >200,000 words experience. Just because you are literate does not make you a writer. It takes work and practice to achieve that designation.


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