# 80,000+ words. How is it done?



## OurJud (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm a bit hesitant to post this as I fear people's patience with my never-ending questions is starting to grow thin, but I'll chance it.

I'm going to try again with this road trip novel, but this time I'm going to try and really strip it back. Not because I'm trying to imitate anyone, but because that's the kind of voice I've always wanted to use, but never seem able (see other thread).

My main issue now - as it has always been - is length. Take any novel you care to mention, regardless of its length, and you could write a very _very_ detailed synopsis in less than 10,000 words; every scene, every event, from beginning to end. So how are those 10,000 words then developed into 90,000, 100,000, 200,000 word novels? I mean, just how many ways are there to tell a scene?

My amazement that novels ever get finished by _anyone_, is only compounded when you hear 'experts' talking about every word having to matter and advising fledgling writers to, "Get rid of the story's fat".

I find it impossible to write lengthy scenes and passages even _with_ all the excess fat and padding that we're told is wrong, so how the hell am I going to go on when I start afresh tomorrow with my 'stripped out' technique?


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## Skodt (Sep 10, 2013)

You need more to say. Make it interesting. You can do that without fluff. 

Instead of:

Bill scratched his nose. 

Say: 
The tingle was back. It felt as if a tiny bug had landed on the bridge of his nose. His irrational fear of bugs lead him to flailing about like a crazed manic. Once he settled and realized he had overreacted he glanced about. No one had saw a thing. He reached up and gentle itched the scratch. He pulled his hand away. Note to self clip fingernails. 

This was just generic, but if you only tell the reader what to know; then he only knows that.


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## Pluralized (Sep 10, 2013)

With all respect, OJ - read more novels and fuel your understanding from the actual works. Doesn't seem that asking everyone else will really give you the understanding of plot arc. I'm learning that myself; a longish novel can take you on a heck of a journey and still not be fluff and fat in the writing. One thing I'm also starting to get - it's more about focusing on the things that are pertinent to the story and not mundane filler. Nobody minds the length if the hook is deep enough, and a deep hook demands fleshing out.


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## Tettsuo (Sep 10, 2013)

How do you eat an elephant?

One bite at a time.

I thought I wouldn't have enough content for my novel either.  My first draft was over 200k words.  Totally shocking to me.  Instead of worrying about how you're going to do it, do it first and figure out what's next after that.

One step at a time my friend.  One step at a time.


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## Lewdog (Sep 10, 2013)

This reminds me of the old adage, "We'll cross that bridge once we get to it."


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## J Anfinson (Sep 10, 2013)

Skodt said:


> You need more to say. Make it interesting. You can do that without fluff.
> 
> Instead of:
> 
> ...



​Sorry, I've been editing. Couldn't let that slide.


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## Skodt (Sep 10, 2013)

^Ha, maybe I should have you follow me everywhere. Keep me fresh and on my toes. I actually had seen I used Lead, instead of Led, but I didn't bother to change it. The others I didn't even notice, mostly because I didn't proof read. As a writer I should always do that, but as a human; I sometimes get lazy. :-({|=


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## InkwellMachine (Sep 10, 2013)

I think the simplest fix here is to re-evaluate your goals. Why are you trying to write 80,000 words? That sounds incredibly boring. I would never want to just write a bunch of words.

Instead, focus on writing the _story_ you want to write. If you're trying to inflate a 4,000-word short story into an 80,000-word novel because that's your goal, you're going to be miserable. Think of all the hours you'll whittle away, grinding and padding, and even after all that, you'll probably notice a severe lack of _substance _and feel more like you've wasted your time than accomplished anything.

I recommend you drop any pretense of writing a novel or book, making money, or even _being a writer _(whatever that means). Write a story--something you'd wanna read--and make it good. That's the only way you'll ever finish anything.

EDIT: I'm not targeting Ourjud with this message. This is something that I think everyone should make use of.


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## bookmasta (Sep 11, 2013)

I've never been able to understand how some people have written 300k plus novels, too much effort. 60k plus writing is fine for me.


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## enchantedsecret24 (Sep 11, 2013)

InkwellMachine said:


> I think the simplest fix here is to re-evaluate your goals. Why are you trying to write 80,000 words? That sounds incredibly boring. I would never want to just write a bunch of words.
> 
> Instead, focus on writing the _story_ you want to write. If you're trying to inflate a 4,000-word short story into an 80,000-word novel because that's your goal, you're going to be miserable. Think of all the hours you'll whittle away, grinding and padding, and even after all that, you'll probably notice a severe lack of _substance _and feel more like you've wasted your time than accomplished anything.
> 
> ...



I LOVE the way that you put this Inkwell! I think I may have just had a breakthrough...because of you! lol I'm serious. I have been working on my novel for...4 months now. It has 47,000 words, and it mostly seems like crap. The good parts are REALLY good, and anything else is pretty terrible. I'm still trying to add more so that I can call it my first completed novel. I don't know, maybe I'm not ready for the big leagues yet. Maybe I'll take out all of the crap, and maybe it can become a 20-30,000 word novella. I'd be happy with that, and didn't really consider it until now. This story I'm working on may just not be meant to be a novel. I think I'm going to try that and see how it goes, and I thank you for that post. Really hit home, and I appreciate that response to OurJud's thread! Hopefully it has helped her too!


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## Gavrushka (Sep 11, 2013)

You know, if I were to think 100,000 words in advance when writing, I'd probably start gibbering like a loon!

The first story I ever told was around 170,000 words long. - I'd no perception when I started writing it, as to where it would end up, or how long the journey would be and I didn't feel the need to know. - I just celebrated the daily dose of words...

...But I do know what OurJud means. - The fact is, that those first 10,000 words provide excellent pickings for the rest of the book. - They can be the catalyst from which ideas, themes and larger than life personalities explode.- In a road-trip book, you have the benefit of drawing on the interactions of the fellow voyagers, along with the eccentric characters they'll meet along the way. You could have 1,000 words based around their road-chariot screeching to a halt in the still of night, when a rabbit leapt into the headlights. - One of the more colourful characters aboard the battle-bus could rush out and point an accusing finger at the rabbit and proclaim 'That bunny rabbit has no ears!', just as the bird (not rabbit) flaps its wings and takes to the night sky. - You could have a puncture where their vehicle careered off the road, narrowly avoiding trees, and as it continued onwards, the headlights picked out a courting couple in a state of semi-undress, and the whole scene could be related by way of the facial expressions of the fellow travellers...

...Damn, I doubt you'll be half way through your journey at 80,000 words.


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## felix (Sep 11, 2013)

Writing 80,000 words, or 200,000 words, is the easy part. Anyone can do that. Just sit at the keyboard long enough. The first drafts of four of my novels topped 100,000 words, and only stopped there because I reined myself in.

The skill comes in brevity, in eliminating all that flab and purple prose. In distilling your writing into the essence of that weighty tome that you churned out in the heat of the writing process. 

If you're already finding that you're coming up short, then that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you're not reaching the threshold for what wold be typically considered a novel's word-count, then that's not necessarily a bad thing either. All it means is that you're not writing a novel. Writing a novella or novelette is just fine. 

What you have to ask yourself is whether you're writing this to please yourself, or to please the masses? Are you trying to crank out a novel to appease the publishing houses' 'golden length' range and get published for the sake of being published? Because if you're not arriving there of your own accord, then perhaps you're not suited to writing run-on-the-mill novels.

Either that, or, as many have already said, you simply need to go back to the craft and read a little more.


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## Sam (Sep 11, 2013)

OurJud said:


> I'm a bit hesitant to post this as I fear people's patience with my never-ending questions is starting to grow thin, but I'll chance it.
> 
> I'm going to try again with this road trip novel, but this time I'm going to try and really strip it back. Not because I'm trying to imitate anyone, but because that's the kind of voice I've always wanted to use, but never seem able (see other thread).
> 
> ...



You've already crippled yourself by insisting that there's a problem when there isn't. You're already resigning yourself to failure because for some reason you're terrified of starting the novel and figuring this all out for yourself. I say that with the greatest of respect, and it doesn't just apply to you. There are people who will ask every question under the sun because they want their first novel to be perfect and great and wonderful and make them millions. Your inability to write doesn't come from writer's block, inexperience, or any other excuse your mind would like to conjure. It comes from _fear. _The fear of wanting it to be perfect; the fear of wanting it to mean something. If I showed you the first novel I ever wrote, you'd ask yourself, "How in the world did that guy ever write a novel that someone agreed to pay for and publish?" Because I figured it out for myself. I dove in head-first and wrote without fear, without inhibition, and learned the answer to every question you have asked (and will ask) through trial and error. So I can tell you how to write 80,000 words. I can tell you every trick, technique, and knack I've learned since I started. But if you find out how to do it on your own, you will be a much better writer for it. 

I'm sorry if this post seems unduly harsh. Sometimes, however, what a person needs is a kick up the backside.


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## Sam (Sep 11, 2013)

bookmasta said:


> I've never been able to understand how some people have written 300k plus novels, too much effort. 60k plus writing is fine for me.



All writing takes effort. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.


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## Bilston Blue (Sep 11, 2013)

> *80,000+ words. How is it done?*



Hi, OJ. To answer your question directly:

You've been a member of WF for three months, racking up over 800 posts in that short time. That's a lot of posts. So, from this day forward, each time you post on WF, before doing so write a hundred words of your novel. You have over two hundred in your opening post here, so a hundred isn't that big a deal, really, is it?

Before you know it--let's say three months judging by your current time as member-to-post count ratio--you'll have your first draft. Then, do some revising and editing and cutting and rewriting over the Christmas period. So, in the new year you'll have a second draft.

Now, where's the whip? Just write the thing and show us.

Good luck with it and keep us updated. Resist the temptation to ask too many questions. Feedback will come in abundance when you post your excerpts in the workshop.


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## escorial (Sep 11, 2013)

OJ..you seem lost man


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## Kevin (Sep 11, 2013)

I think if the characters 'travel'  80,000 words, then that's what they do.


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## OurJud (Sep 11, 2013)

escorial said:


> OJ..you seem lost man



:lol: I am.

Seriously, though, thanks to you all, once again.

There's isn't really much I could argue with in these posts... well, a few I could, but that just boils down to a difference of opinion so I won't bother highlighting them. The only one I really want to defend myself on is this notion that I need to read more. I read as much as any writer does - almost constantly. I finish one novel and start another, so let's eliminate lack of reading as being a problem.

One other thing I will address is whether I should be sticking to shorts and/or novellas. A couple of you have said that the satisfaction comes from actually finishing a story, whether that be 800 words, 8,000 words, or 80,000 words, and that I should simply concentrate on doing this. But I've written hundreds of short stories in my time and have never felt any great pride or satisfaction on completion. I've had enough of short stories and only do them as exercise. They're totally different to novels and it is my aim to write a novel... for me... not for anyone else, but for me. The thought of resigning myself to only ever writing short stories is something I simply refuse to do.


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## Ghosts of the Maze (Sep 11, 2013)

I'm not going to pile on, because you've asked good questions, you've just asked too many of them. Gotta trust your instincts and write, and know that you're going to make mistakes and it's going to be a whole thing. But if you're focus grouping everything you're going to drive yourself nuts, and you'll never write anything because you'll spend all your time on this message board, fine place that it is.

If you're asking how I accumulated a lot of words I'll tell you. I didn't have a set plan of things that happen, so I just kept doing things and took my story wherever it felt natural. Maybe you're looking at a beginning and ending points with your beats already mapped out, and you arrive at your spots quicker than you thought. 

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to write a novel. I understand the feeling. So I don't necessarily agree with the notion that "If the story is x amount of words, just make it into a short story or a novella." But I would say that you have to add more to the story. New things have to happen and it can't just be about creating words for the sake of length, otherwise we'd all just stutter.


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## Terry D (Sep 11, 2013)

Don't get hung up on word count. A novel can be as few as 50,000 words (that's about 200 pages of standard manuscript format). _Fahrenheit 451_, the classic SF novel by Ray Bradbury is just 45,000 words.


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## Robdemanc (Sep 11, 2013)

I think you may find it surprisingly easy to get out 80,000 words once you are into your characters and story.  When you begin to care about the characters and what happens to them you will be taking care over how you write about them, and find yourself going into greater depth with them.


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## Jeko (Sep 11, 2013)

Slowly, with patience and devotion. 

Since you don't get any 'satisfaction' from finishing a short story, I would work more on writing short stories. You wont get more satisfaction from a novel just because it's longer.

Short stories are not totally different to novels. Both are stories; a novel is simply longer.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Sep 11, 2013)

You write 80,000+ words by having 80,000+ words worth of story to tell.  Perhaps your stories aren't epics, and that's fine.  Perhaps it only takes you 40,000 words, or even 10,000 words, to accomplish your goal.  Wonderful - you have the gift of brevity.

I didn't go into my novel thinking, "I'm going to write a 200K word story!" It just happened.  To get from where I began to where I wanted to finish took that much time because of all the events that had to happen and all the character development that had to occur.  After editing, I'm finding that even that was too much, and it only took me 140K words to tell the story.  Still, that's my story, and you have yours.

Don't fill your pieces with fluff.  Don't even expand your writing for the sake of having more words.  Just write at your pace, and have more to write about.



Cadence said:


> You wont get more satisfaction from a novel just because it's longer.



You sure will.  I've written short stories, and they feel like exercises.  Anyone can plop down 500, or 1000, or 2000 words.  To spend years on a novel and finish with 200,000 words of story is incredibly satisfying, simply because of the magnitude of what you've accomplished.


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## dale (Sep 11, 2013)

Bilston Blue said:


> Hi, OJ. To answer your question directly:
> 
> You've been a member of WF for three months, racking up over 800 posts in that short time. That's a lot of posts. So, from this day forward, each time you post on WF, before doing so write a hundred words of your novel. You have over two hundred in your opening post here, so a hundred isn't that big a deal, really, is it?
> 
> ...



 yeah. i think a lot of us need to pay attention to this one. if i typed even 1/2 as much on my book and short stories as i did clowning on the internet, i could have already filled quite a few bookshelves.


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## Morkonan (Sep 11, 2013)

OurJud said:


> ....
> 
> My main issue now - as it has always been - is length. Take any novel you care to mention, regardless of its length, and you could write a very _very_ detailed synopsis in less than 10,000 words; every scene, every event, from beginning to end. So how are those 10,000 words then developed into 90,000, 100,000, 200,000 word novels? I mean, just how many ways are there to tell a scene?



Describing scenes is great. But, without Scene Transitions, they're just so much unconnected fluff, aren't they? 



> My amazement that novels ever get finished by _anyone_, is only compounded when you hear 'experts' talking about every word having to matter and advising fledgling writers to, "Get rid of the story's fat".



They're talking about a specific type of story "fat." See, everything in your work needs to contribute meaningfully to the story. If it doesn't, it's "fat" and needs to get chopped off. But, not all "fat" you might see, right now, is worthless gibberish that doesn't advance the story. In fact, a great deal of non-plot related mumbo-jumbo is completely necessary. Character Building, Setting Work, Atmosphere, Magic Sprinkles and Pixies... These don't bear directly on the plot and may not be intimately connected with the story, but they matter a great deal and can make the difference between a crappy novel and an award winner. Did you care if there was a First Age and a Second Age, filled with their own heroes and legends, in "The Lord of the Rings?" Maybe not, but Tolkien's creation of a world with a deep history was critical to the quality of his finished story.



> I find it impossible to write lengthy scenes and passages even _with_ all the excess fat and padding that we're told is wrong, so how the hell am I going to go on when I start afresh tomorrow with my 'stripped out' technique?



Let's find out...

First of all, what's "fat" to you? When you describe a lengthy scene, why is it "lengthy" to begin with? A scene is meant to be finished exactly when it means to be finished... So, are your characters sitting in your scene and watching the paint dry, long after the critical dialogue has occurred? Are your scenes filled with uncomfortable pauses? The answer to both of those questions is "Probably not." So, if everything in the scene seems to be written with a purpose, what is it that you're calling "fat" in your own writing?

A few hours ago, I sat down for a few minutes to spend some time with a book I'm reading. I read a passage that applies directly to what it is you're talking about and I will examine it a bit for you. (Though, not in detail, since I don't have the book with me, atm.)

A supporting character is mulling over his plight, being in a doomed regiment, having lost his leg, being cursed and, furthermore, adding to the injustices heaped upon him by the author, he's grousing about how heavy his pack is and what items he could leave behind to lighten his load as he tramps with his fellow soldiers through the nigh-unbearable heat of a desert country. The character begins the scene with some introspection that covers all of the above. Then, there's a switch to a different bit where an inventory of his pack presented to the reader along with the character's own musings why he can't get rid of any of it. This is followed by a couple of paragraphs of interaction between several characters, all fellow soldiers, and the expected grumblings of their Sargent, who warns them that what they leave behind today is likely what they'll miss most that night.

What's the point? If the author wanted to show a bit of introspection from the point of view of a supporting character, then why dump out the virtual backpack full of the accoutrements of war for the reader to have to skim through? That seems like "fat", doesn't it? (Well, no, it's not. But, for some it may seem that way.)

In fact, the author has taken a very good opportunity to do some character building and to emphasize the hardships that this group of soldiers are going through - Hardships that have nothing to do with battle. We've seen them die, seen them bear horrible wounds, heard their cries for help... But, now the author is taking this little scene of introspection and building upon it to handle some other completely necessary tasks. Detailing the character's backpack makes him more "Real." He's concerned for his comfort and survival. He values the little sewing kit, given to him by a treasured friend before he left to join the military. He understands the necessity of water, but didn't understand the necessity of his bedroll and heavy jacket until the Sargent pointed out how cold the desert could get at night. When the Sergent interjects that bit of information and fellow soldiers understand his wise suggestions, it demonstrates camaraderie and the Sergent's role as mentor to inexperienced warriors in his command. They respect him for his wisdom and his survival capabilities. Instead of just the "Real/Legal Authority" he carries with his rank, he carries a boatload of "Charismatic Authority" - His men respect him for who he is and his fatherly attentions towards them.

This was a brief scene, but the author handled a lot of necessary components of good story-building. Nothing significant happened in regards to the plot or the protagonist. But, what was demonstrated in this scene will reach through the story, many pages, and will help provide the fuel for more high-stakes clashes as well as flush out the interpersonal relationships amongst the soldiers. Every soldier grips, so we've gotten to see this familiar stereotype portrayed, as well. Everyone loves reading about soldier's gripes... and, that's another thing: Readers love reading about Professions, especially when they're interesting. Here, the author introduced the realities of the Profession of a Fantasy Soldier - It's not all dragons, magic and minor gods nor is every decision one on which the fate of the world depends. Sometimes, it's long boring marches through inhospitable deserts and deciding whether or not you should drop your wool blanket in order to lighten your load.

So, where's your "fat?" Where's your "fluff?" 

If you have identified passages in your story that aren't necessary, *why* aren't they necessary? Is it because they do absolutely nothing in order to further the story? Well, do they do anything else? Do they help you build an atmosphere that you can use later in the story or that enhances the scene? Maybe some of what you've written has some foreshadowing qualities to it? In the description above, I don't know if there are any foreshadowing qualities there or not. There may be and there are several good allegories there the author could use. What if it is truly a foreshadowing moment and the soldier wandering what seemingly useless items to drop in the sand is an allegory for a critical decision later in the story? Maybe he might have to decide who lives or dies? Maybe the author wants to give the impression that the choice is much like deciding which item among many is your most useless bit of fat?

There is no "fat" in a well written story. _Everything in every scene is absolutely necessary and is purposefully written to be that way._ It's just that many writers might not take the time to add those sorts of things or, conversely, they may add them but have no idea how to use them appropriately. That's the sort of "fat" that writers are telling you to cut out. A better quote might be:

"Use it or lose it."

Either use that fat or lose it, don't just leave it there. If you are worried about having enough useful "fat" to make a well-rounded book, read on:

Every scene has some sort of atmosphere inherent within it. Aside from the stage direction or dialogue, there's usually a theme of conflict, resolution, introspection, discovery, attainment, etc.. Sometimes, it's just characters accomplishing a necessary task. However, none of these things are accomplished in a vacuum. The author isn't going to allow you to "just imagine what everyone must feel like and how the surrounding scene impacts their emotions." No, that's just not the way things are written.

You're writing a scene where two characters are in a car. It's night and they are about to get into an argument. OK, so, how can you enhance the atmosphere in that scene by your choice of descriptive passages? Could the car's heater be on? Could the heat be oppressive? Could the passenger be reluctant to either turn the heat down or ask the driver to because they don't want to start/renew an argument? Could the music be too loud? Could it be music that one of the people in the car didn't like, but they didn't complain out of fear of the other? Or, maybe they didn't complain because they were trying to be nice in order to help diffuse an argument? What about the floorboards? Are they cluttered? Are old drink bottles and fast-food bags making the passenger uncomfortable? Maybe the passenger has to keep their feet close together in order to avoid stepping on them all night? What if they have cramps in their leg as a result? What if the window is busted and that passenger can't put it down to relieve themselves of the heat? What if one of them is smoking and annoying the other with it? What if the dashboard is black and the lights of the CD player look like two beady eyes that are judging the passengers every action?

There's no dialogue or action there, yet. But, you can write a scene with an oppressive atmosphere and throw in a lot of imagery that can be used to support the primary focus of the scene - The Argument. Think of it like a film's music - It's not inherently part of the plot, but the selection of music is critical towards establishing the atmosphere of the scene in which it is played. THAT sort of description is not "fat." If you're using your descriptive passages like this, then you should not cut them. If you're not and you're simply using them as static, uninteresting and relatively meaningless bits of information, then they are most definitely "fat" and you should cut them. If you cut them and then end back up at your 10,000 word mark, then you need to learn how to use imagery, allegory, foreshadowing, atmosphere and the like in order to turn the fat of your scenes into muscle that propels your story.

(If you wish, I'll write the above "argument" scene using the physical descriptions of the surroundings the characters find themselves within in order to enhance the scene. I don't have much time to do that, atm, but will do it later if you'd like an illustration or if you'd think it would help.)


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## OurJud (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks, Markoman, that's some post! I can't add a 'like' note as they seem to have disappeared, but I would have it they were there.

Your post told me quite a bit and is, coincidentally, very much like a book I'm reading at the moment called _Crafting Scenes_.

I'll try and aplly all this to my writing and see how I get one.


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## Morkonan (Sep 11, 2013)

OurJud said:


> Thanks, Markoman, that's some post! I can't add a 'like' note as they seem to have disappeared, but I would have it they were there.
> 
> Your post told me quite a bit and is, coincidentally, very much like a book I'm reading at the moment called _Crafting Scenes_.
> 
> I'll try and aplly all this to my writing and see how I get one.



Instead of diving straight into your current WIP, go free-style, first. Grab an idea and create a scene from it. The idea here is to disconnect you a bit from the trauma of your current work  and to get you a bit more relaxed so you can concentrate on the mechanics of creating a scene without having to worry to advance any plot or story. Just write a scene and then tweak it, here and there, to see just how greatly your can effect it by using different techniques.

For instance, write a scene and focus on describing the surroundings in such a way as to present a foreboding, oppressive, dangerous atmosphere. Then, re-write the exact-same-scene, but change the atmosphere so it's light and airy by using completely different scene descriptions of the same scene.

So, you have a scene with a fountain and two people sitting on it, discussing the upcoming war. In one writing, you describe the fountain as "_old and decrepit_" with the mortar being _"eroded by the insistence of time."_ In the next writing, you write the same scene with the same two people discussing the upcoming war, but the fountain is _"cheerfully bubbling_" and the stone is "_enduring the ages_." All the dialogue and action in the two scenes remains identical, but you've radically altered how the scene works in a hypothetical story, just through your descriptions. Want irony and a bit of madness? How do you think you could introduce those ideas just manipulating the same descriptive lines? That's easy! 

Yes, believe it or not, it is. All you have to do is use BOTH sorts of descriptives in the same scene in order to add that sort of flavor. So, the water would be _"cheerfully bubbling" _its way through a _"decrepit fountain, the mortar of which was slowly, yet inexorably, being eroded by the insistence of time. Yet, the heavy marble of its foundation remained, steadfastly denying the crumbling fate that threatened the greater whole."_ Now, the "war" they're discussing takes on a bit different tone, doesn't it? (Sorta crappy writing, but you get the hint.)


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## Jeko (Sep 11, 2013)

> To spend years on a novel and finish with 200,000 words of story is incredibly satisfying, simply because of the magnitude of what you've accomplished.



Though I agree, I would note that putting more time and effort into a short story can give great satisfaction because of its depth. And the moment you start to equate the time you put into something against the amount of satisfaction you personally get out of it, you can run into problems.

Let the effect of the length of a work not be the reason you're writing it - let the effect of the depth and power of the work be more important.


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## JermShar (Sep 22, 2013)

Gavrushka said:


> You know, if I were to think 100,000 words in advance when writing, I'd probably start gibbering like a loon!



I haven't even thought about how many words mine will have but i know it will be big and long. Already I started ranting in both my Intro and Chapter 1! Of course its my character's voice and nature to do so.


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## Newman (Sep 22, 2013)

OurJud said:


> I'm a bit hesitant to post this as I fear people's patience with my never-ending questions is starting to grow thin, but I'll chance it.
> 
> I'm going to try again with this road trip novel, but this time I'm going to try and really strip it back. Not because I'm trying to imitate anyone, but because that's the kind of voice I've always wanted to use, but never seem able (see other thread).
> 
> ...



One way is detailed outlining, which will have lots of "bits." Each bit takes up word count and adds up. Don't worry about the word count, just figure out all the bits.

You can think of 300 pages as 300 bits. That'll give you the skeleton. Then improve / rewrite.


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## samiamthemustangman (Sep 23, 2013)

"Writing a first draft is like galloping one's way into a dark room, or overhearing a faint conversation, or telling a joke whose punch line you have forgotten. As someone said, one writes mainly to rewrite, for rewriting and revising are how one mind comes to inhabit the material fully."-"Writing in the Cold" Ted Solotaroff


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## Lyra Laurant (Sep 24, 2013)

The story I'm writing was inspired on a 150 words (yeah! 150 only) folk tale I read on wikipedia. I'm turning it into a novel by:

- Deepening the characters. A character from a 150 words story doesn't have a personality. In my story, the girl who was only referred to as "a clever girl" has now a name, a family, a main objective, minor objectives, a past, green eyes, fears, a beautiful singing voice, a soul.
- Creating new characters. More allies and more enemies, but only where they could enrich the story (mostly by making the protagonist's life miserable)
- Making the protagonist's life more and more difficult. If in 150 words he should overcome a simple chalenge to reach his goal, now I slowly add new obstacles and inner conflicts. If he wants to achieve his goal, he must lose something as important to him as it.
- Developing the stories inside the main story to different degrees. Each character has his own life going on. Even if their stories will not be written in the book, it may be worth knowing them, because they may interfere in the story and add important events to it.

Instead of extending the scenes, I prefer adding new layers of complexity to the story. That way, I actually just can't tell my story in much less than 80,000 words.

I hope that helps! ^_^


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