# If within the first few hundred words, I see my work as crap...



## ViKtoricus (Jan 31, 2014)

If within the first few hundred words, I see the novel that I began as complete crap (in my opinion), should I automatically scrap it and start another one? Or should I salvage it?

I just started a what I think would be a really cool story, but when I read it, I cringe. It doesn't have that bite compared to my other stuff.


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## escorial (Jan 31, 2014)

maybe writing stories ain't for you dude..you always seem to suffer with it all..try poetry or some other form of writing...journalism..ect..


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jan 31, 2014)

If you can tell what's wrong you should be able to fix it. Best way to learn something.


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## popsprocket (Jan 31, 2014)

When you aren't very far into a story it doesn't hurt to try again if you aren't feeling it. Of course, it gets harder the further you get into the story.

So yeah, fix it if you think you can, just try not to get hung up on writing and rewriting the beginning. Move on and come back to it rather than dawdling because it's not all that you imagined.


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## Schrody (Feb 1, 2014)

I think you should give it a chance. Write it, and if you still don't like beginning, change it.  I know I used to think some of my work is BS, but when I read it again, after few weeks, months... I realized it's great! So, don't give up, yet.


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## Outiboros (Feb 1, 2014)

I rarely see my own work as anything but crap when I look back at it a few days after writing. If I'd have scrapped it all, I would've been left with nothing. Instead, I correct and improve what I can until it looks fine to me. A few days later, it's crap again. I run that cycle a few times, let it sit for three months, and only then am I happy with it - until, a year later, my writing's improved enough for it to be relative crap again.

Other writers may tell you to kill your babies, but don't go on an infanticide run. What Iasm said: fix it.


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## TWErvin2 (Feb 1, 2014)

A few hundred words is hardly enough time to hit your stride with a work. And first drafts are rarely sparking gems of prose.


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## Jeko (Feb 1, 2014)

> It doesn't have that bite compared to my other stuff.



It means you're getting better.

As writers, we can often reminisce about the feeling we had when we wrote something before. But, once we get better, doing the same thing feels worse, because we can 1) see what's going wrong and 2) do better. 

Published authors frequently feel that their work is crap too. It's part of the drafting process. You know what the most crappy thing to do is, though? Scrapping it. If you scrap a project, you're not even giving it a chance to come together. You want things to work out immediately, but that never happens. You're impatient, weak-willed and don't deserve to have your work reach the heights you want it to.

But if you give it time and space - whether you fix it as you go, or leave problems to be solved once you have a clearer picture - your work will develop the more you work on it. So stop evaluating your work. Give it space. Just write the darn thing. The longer you spend worrying about it, the more you should have to worry about; the longer you spend writing it, the more you should have.


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## bookmasta (Feb 1, 2014)

That's one of the biggest problems, is that people will begin to write and quit before they finish. Writing requires patience. The only way to get better is through practice and time. I've been where you are, looking at my work and feeling like it was deplorable. But that was a long time ago and I finished the novel anyways. And now, looking back on it, I'm glad I wrote it. The book had a great idea, the prose just needed to be refined a little bit. So don't worry, other people have been at the point you are now. The only way to get past it is to keep writing. I wish you luck.


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## Morkonan (Feb 1, 2014)

ViKtoricus said:


> If within the first few hundred words, I see the novel that I began as complete crap (in my opinion), should I automatically scrap it and start another one? Or should I salvage it?



Fix it.

The only way you're really going to learn how to write is by doing it. And, the only way you're going to learn how to fix what's bad about your writing is to fix it.



> I just started a what I think would be a really cool story, but when I read it, I cringe. It doesn't have that bite compared to my other stuff.



What sorts of "other stuff?" 

In your opening pages, it's your job to convince your reader to keep reading long enough for them to finally enjoy reading your work so much, they'll hang around during the boring parts... Can you do that? Can you create your opening chapters in such a way that they keep the reader reading? If you can't, then you know what you need to work on.

If, however, you're openings read like "crap" and are, themselves, unsalvageable, then it may be because you need to work on the basics. Work on grammar, punctuation and clarity. Hone those skills. Once your instruments are sharp, you don't have to worry about them messing up a perfectly fine idea.


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## Tettsuo (Feb 1, 2014)

I'd suggest you stop going back to review it.

With my first book, it was necessary for me to simply do zero editing while writing a chapter.  Once the chapter was done, then and only then would I go back to make changes, add or take way things that needed addressing and make minor editing changes.  Only once I was completely done with the 1st draft, would I go back to do full on editing.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 1, 2014)

The first few hundred words of every new novel I've written have been vomit. Then again, the foundations of any new house aren't exactly aesthetically pleasing, but without them you've nowhere to live... - I'd wait until I'd gained a more informed opinion around the ten thousand word mark. Even then, if I didn't like it, I would try and remember what it was about the idea that grasped me in the first place and search for whatever it was that was missing.

I've never not completed a novel, as my words are not indelible. If I don't like them, I change them, but I'd never throw the baby out with the bathwater.


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## Charlaux (Feb 1, 2014)

The whole clearer with hindsight applies to writing, it's hard to be objective about a story when you're starting out with just epic enthusiasm for an idea. When you say it's a cool story, is writing it killing your passion for it? Nothing worthwhile is easy, and remember that no published book you ever read and admired was a first draft.


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## Shari Sakurai (Feb 1, 2014)

First drafts are never perfect. I would carry on for a few chapters and then go back and look at it. It could be that you're being too critical with your own work? Maybe ask someone close to you to have a look and see what they think?


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## Sam (Feb 1, 2014)

By all means scrap it. Then scrap the next hundred words that you write. And the next. Why not the next as well? Maybe one day you'll get a chapter finished. Then two. Before you retire you might eventually finish the book you started forty years earlier.


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## FleshEater (Feb 1, 2014)

Truth: The first year of writing will be crap. The second year of writing will be like crap doused in Lysol. The third year...well...you get the idea. 

Until you write something and get it published, consider your work crap. The point? Learn to love writing, and learn to put in the hard work it's going to take to become good at it. You're at the beginning of your novel. You have no idea the challenges that will come later on. If the first hundred words are tripping you up enough to ask a forum, you may want to consider escorial's advice. 

I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I truly believe that not everyone can write. It takes a special person to stick with this through thick and thin, especially when it comes to criticism and rejection, because oh boy...there's A LOT of that.


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## Outiboros (Feb 2, 2014)

FleshEater said:


> I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I truly believe that not everyone can write. It takes a special person to stick with this through thick and thin, especially when it comes to criticism and rejection, because oh boy...there's A LOT of that.


I completely agree.


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## Grape Juice Vampire (Feb 2, 2014)

^As do I. This is not the feel good, instant talent thing people think. It's pain and frustration. (Which is why I really get mad when people tell me I'm taking the easy and lazy career path)


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## Gavrushka (Feb 2, 2014)

FleshEater said:


> I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I truly believe that not everyone can write. It takes a special person to stick with this through thick and thin, especially when it comes to criticism and rejection, because oh boy...there's A LOT of that.



Damn, these could well become the most quoted words on WF! - We can all write, but very few of us with any hope of commercial success. - I think more of the .5% (or whatever the figure is) could be successful IF we listened more and tried harder. 

Writing is so damned hard. Even a page of prose, written to the best of our ability, can take many hours of editing to form into something worthy of being read by others. Twice in the past I've sent a year's worth of time and effort to an agent and been rejected. - It was the same book, rewritten too! - I could be disheartened, or I could accept that I enjoy writing and, whilst I hold out hope of commercial success, I'll settle for enjoying what I do.

AND I will always be open-minded and thick skinned. I relish a good literary kicking, as long as I can learn something from it. - The heavy boots that once stomped on me, are little more than good-natured kicks up the backside now.


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## Sam (Feb 2, 2014)

FleshEater said:


> Truth: The first year of writing will be crap. The second year of writing will be like crap doused in Lysol. The third year...well...you get the idea.
> 
> Until you write something and get it published, consider your work crap. The point? Learn to love writing, and learn to put in the hard work it's going to take to become good at it. You're at the beginning of your novel. You have no idea the challenges that will come later on. If the first hundred words are tripping you up enough to ask a forum, you may want to consider escorial's advice.
> 
> I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I truly believe that not everyone can write. It takes a special person to stick with this through thick and thin, especially when it comes to criticism and rejection, because oh boy...there's A LOT of that.



Well said. 

Writing is not for everyone. Those who really want to do it will find a way; those who don't will find an excuse.


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## Schrody (Feb 2, 2014)

FleshEater said:


> *Until you write something and get it published, consider your work crap.*



All my novels are crap! :sorrow: :coffeescreen:



FleshEater said:


> I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I truly believe that not everyone can write. It takes a special person to stick with this through thick and thin, especially when it comes to criticism and rejection, because oh boy...there's A LOT of that.



It's not an unpopular opinion; it's the truth. Some people just can't write.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 2, 2014)

Schrody said:


> All my novels are crap! :sorrow: :coffeescreen:
> 
> ... *at the moment.*



There, I've corrected it for you. - Unless you've used up all your edit-credit, I am sure you can remove some of the odorous guff and replace it with something sweeter smelling.

The problem arises when we inhale the compost, and consider it a pleasant smell.


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## Tiberius (Feb 2, 2014)

ViKtoricus said:


> If within the first few hundred words, I see the novel that I began as complete crap (in my opinion), should I automatically scrap it and start another one? Or should I salvage it?
> 
> I just started a what I think would be a really cool story, but when I read it, I cringe. It doesn't have that bite compared to my other stuff.



First drafts are always bad.  That's what editing is for.  Relax and edit your work.


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## spartan928 (Feb 2, 2014)

FleshEater said:


> I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I truly believe that not everyone can write *well*.



Writing is easy. But writing well is an exceptionally rare skill. As FE suggests, writing with the intent to entertain other people is a long, rough road that the majority of writers never find wide success with. But you have to define your own success Viktoricus, and sometimes the smallest of gains are valuable. It's up to you to decide if the sweat is worth the muscle.


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## The Tourist (Feb 2, 2014)

Outiboros said:


> Other writers may tell you to kill your babies, but don't go on an infanticide run.



Funny you should use that analogy, I happen to believe in it.  After all the Spartans ruled their part of the world for over 300 years--using only bronze.  Can you imagine if they would have had steel?  But can you also envision how quickly the fanatics would have overrun them if all of the babies were kept?

I believe that sifting and winnowing is an important part of any refinement.  For example, some knives are made by creating "tool room copies."  They might use computer generated models, but individual pieces are handcrafted, and the first pieces are often scrapped.

It is opined that the first car created and produced without a clay model was the first Dodge Intrepid.  Car guys called it "The Dodge Defective."


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## FleshEater (Feb 2, 2014)

spartan928 said:


> Writing is easy. But writing well is an exceptionally rare skill. As FE suggests, writing with the intent to entertain other people is a long, rough road that the majority of writers never find wide success with. But you have to define your own success Viktoricus, and sometimes the smallest of gains are valuable. It's up to you to decide if the sweat is worth the muscle.



Writing well is also easy. It's telling a story well that's a rare skill. I think Sam has said this before, but don't quote me (and I apologize, Sam, if it wasn't you), that you can't teach someone how to tell a story. The art of storytelling is buried within us all to some degree, but it's finding it and honing it that many never come to realize. That's what sets apart successful writers; the ability to tell a story well.


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## Outiboros (Feb 2, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Funny you should use that analogy, I happen to believe in it.  After all the Spartans ruled their part of the world for over 300 years--using only bronze.  Can you imagine if they would have had steel?  But can you also envision how quickly the fanatics would have overrun them if all of the babies were kept?


All the other nations only had bronze, too. And the whole killing puny babies thing is disputed at best.

It's a personal choice in the writing progress, though. Pick the one that works for you.


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## Schrody (Feb 2, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> There, I've corrected it for you. - Unless you've used up all your edit-credit, I am sure you can remove some of the odorous guff and replace it with something sweeter smelling.
> 
> The problem arises when we inhale the compost, and consider it a pleasant smell.



It's crap because it's not published. Other than that, none of my work is crappy, maybe not that interesting, but I wouldn't say crappy. But it needs to be polished, that's true.


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## Schrody (Feb 2, 2014)

FleshEater said:


> Writing well is also easy. It's telling a story well that's a rare skill. I think Sam has said this before, but don't quote me (and I apologize, Sam, if it wasn't you), that *you can't teach someone how to tell a story. The art of storytelling is buried within us all to some degree*, but it's finding it and honing it that many never come to realize. That's what sets apart successful writers; the ability to tell a story well.



True.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 2, 2014)

Schrody said:


> It's crap because it's not published. Other than that, none of my work is crappy, maybe not that interesting, but I wouldn't say crappy. But it needs to be polished, that's true.



LOL, I can see how what I wrote could have been misinterpreted... What I meant to say was that it will be good enough for publication, given time but was using the earlier definition of 'crap'.

In a week or two, I will start work on the edits on a novel I completed last month. That does have sections that need more than polish, but I know what to do, and I've the help of some very clever people on these forums to get me there.


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## Kyle R (Feb 2, 2014)

The question I'd ask myself is: Is it crappy *prose*, or a crappy *concept*?

Crappy prose can be fixed, rewritten, turned from lumps of coal to sparkling gems.

A crappy concept, on the other hand, is much harder to fix. The best way to avoid having a crappy concept is to learn what makes a concept great. There are specific ingredients that distinguish a good concept from a bad one, though that topic itself deserves its own thread in my opinion.

If it's just the prose that you dislike, then don't worry about it. That's what drafting and rewriting is for. Even Stephen King, whom I've seen you mention many times, considers his first drafts terrible. The point with the first draft is to get the skeleton of the story down, then to go back in and fill out the gaps and polish the jagged edges into smooth, clean prose.

You don't carve a masterpiece with one swipe of a chisel. You hammer away at it with thousands of tiny nicks and taps, over and over and over again. That's writing. :encouragement:


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## Schrody (Feb 2, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> LOL, I can see how what I wrote could have been misinterpreted... What I meant to say was that it will be good enough for publication, given time but was using the earlier definition of 'crap'.
> 
> In a week or two, I will start work on the edits on a novel I completed last month. That does have sections that need more than polish, but I know what to do, and I've the help of some very clever people on these forums to get me there.



It's a misunderstanding, I joked about my work being crap, because FleshEater said if it's not published, it's crap.  Of course, sometimes, in the middle, it can be pretty crappy :-k  I'm sure you won't have to work too much on your novel :encouragement:


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## JamMau5 (Feb 3, 2014)

What are diamonds but compressed lumps of carbon? Writing is a process it doesn't just happen. Every year, I go back and read things that I wrote the year previous and I can detect everything I see wrong with it. In many cases a lot of it, but that's ok. It just means you're getting better. I personally have a tendency to scrap things early if the inspiration doesn't stick with me, or more less I don't stick with it. As a result, I don't have many finished stories in my arsenal. I don't think you should just totally scrap something immediately, work it out and see where it goes.


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## Robdemanc (Feb 3, 2014)

There are times when I look at my work and think its is crap. Then other times I look at the same work and think it is acceptable. Then other times I think it is great! I think it depends on what you are expecting, or at what angle/dimension you are looking at it.

If it is a first draft then you should not worry because it is unlikely you will let anyone read a first draft.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 3, 2014)

Openings of first drafts are almost invariably awful.  Keep writing.


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## tabasco5 (Feb 3, 2014)

Just keep writing and moving forward.  The crap will still be there when you get done, waiting to be edited.


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## tepelus (Feb 3, 2014)




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## Sam (Feb 4, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Openings of first drafts are almost invariably awful.  Keep writing.



Come on, Gamer, you're better than that kind of generalisation.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 4, 2014)

Sam said:


> Come on, Gamer, you're better than that kind of generalisation.



It was a generalization, but one that I think has some merit.  In my experience, finding a story to tell isn't so bad, but finding the perfect point to insert the reader can take some work.  Even if you find the perfect spot, there's always the chance of some acclimation time to get used to the new characters, setting, and possibly tone.

It's possible to write a stellar opening on your first try, but I think the odds are against you far more at the beginning than at any other point in the story.


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## The Tourist (Feb 4, 2014)

I think one of the things that trips us up is the "respect for the written word."  You see all of the great authors in history, and there's a reverence we imply.

But, c'mon guys, in the end it's musings on a page.  Ten thousands trees die for even a mediocre THG rip-off.  You have to forge the work in fire.

Do you think every knife I touch becomes a scalpel?  I babied an engine once only to it explode between my legs upon acceleration.  Failure is the fuel that breeds success.

Babies over the cliff...


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## Tettsuo (Feb 4, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> A crappy concept, on the other hand, is much harder to fix. The best way to avoid having a crappy concept is to learn what makes a concept great. There are* specific ingredients* that distinguish a good concept from a bad one, though that topic itself deserves its own thread in my opinion.



Generally I agree with you, but on this, I can't.

There is no "formula" to making a good concept.  You can make a concept logical or reasonable and even plausible, but there's no amount of specific ingredients that you can scrounge together will make a concept good if the ingredients aren't from the heart.

There are too many writers out there pumping out half-assed books based on that idea.  So long as they have X and Y and leads to Z, the concept is good.  I disagree wholeheartedly with that assessment.

If you want to go from passable work to good and towards great, bring the concept from the heart.  Either you have something to say or you don't.  It's that simply to me.

There's a difference between entertaining TV and great TV.  There's a difference between fun music and a soul stirring songs.  The same goes for books.


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## Sam (Feb 4, 2014)

Tettsuo said:


> Generally I agree with you, but on this, I can't.
> 
> There is no "formula" to making a good concept.  You can make a concept logical or reasonable and even plausible, but there's no amount of specific ingredients that you can scrounge together will make a concept good if the ingredients aren't from the heart.
> 
> ...



The problem with the half-assed authors of which you speak is that they cater to fads because of a misguided belief that readers want to read the same concepts in perpetuity. The in-thing at the moment is dystopian fiction, thanks to a wave of copycats trying to make a quick buck off the success of _The Hunger Games. _Ignoring the irony that _The Hunger Games _itself is a copycat of_ Battle Royale, _which is itself a copycat of _The Running Man, _which is itself a copycat of _The Most Dangerous Game, _aspiring authors continue to knock out novels that are the same storyline rehashed a million times. Mention Zamyatin's _We _or Huxley's _Brave New World _and they haven't the foggiest notion what you're talking about. Dystopian fiction was written -- and a hell of a lot better -- long before Suzanne Collins was a twinkle in her father's eye. It was largely penned in response to the totalitarian regimes of Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin, and many of the authors faced persecution and worse because of it. That kind of writing comes from, as you say, the heart. It's writing something that needs to be written and not some triangled love story about a girl called Katniss. 

Write for yourself, from the heart, and with a purpose.


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## Kyle R (Feb 4, 2014)

Tettsuo said:


> There is no "formula" to making a good concept.  You can make a concept logical or reasonable and even plausible, but there's no amount of specific ingredients that you can scrounge together will make a concept good if the ingredients aren't from the heart.



I'll make a new thread about that so as not to derail this one. :encouragement:


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## tabasco5 (Feb 4, 2014)

Sam said:


> The problem with the authors of which you speak is that they cater to fads because of a misguided belief that readers want to read the same concepts in perpetuity.



Very good point.


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