# lacking knowledge on military conduct



## zippo360 (Jun 18, 2011)

Hey there. I'm currently working on a sci-fi/alternate history book, which as you probably tell by the thread title, involves the army. My question, as best as I can put it at least, is how would an army service member address a superior officer. I know about the whole 'address them as sir' type stuff, but what I want to know is, and this will seem like a strange question, do they say 'sir' at one point or another in every sentence they say to a superior officer?  Also, would one socialise with a superior officer at any time?

Thanks


----------



## Sam (Jun 18, 2011)

They'll alternate between 'sir' and the officer's rank. General, colonel, captain, whatever it may be. 

It depends on the type of superior officer. A superior officer does not need to be a four-star general. If you're a private, your superior officer can be a sergeant. Since he is technically an NCO (non-commissioned officer) he would certainly socialise with the men in his unit. If it's a general, that's less likely to happen.


----------



## zippo360 (Jun 18, 2011)

Thanks. That's one more problem ironed out.


----------



## C.M. Aaron (Jun 18, 2011)

Depending on the time period and country, there are different levels of formality in military organizations. The past several decades in the U.S. service it has become increasingly common for military members to use each others first name so long as everyone is within the bracket of one rank higher or two ranks lower. Outside of that bracket, things get more formal and increasingly formal the greater the difference in rank.  Socially, age and gender drive relationships more than rank. Men who are the same age will get involved in the same off duty activities. Intramural sports are very popular on military bases. There is a rough correlation between age and rank.  It is rare to see a  sergeant and a private who are the same age.  Usually the rank  differences between a private and lieutenant are too great for them to  socialize together even though they may be similar in age. The traditional scene of military people meeting at the base club is not so common anymore. Most military bases are near large civilian communities, and military clubs do not have the resources to compete with civilian establishments when it comes to drawing in the crowds. Young military people go off base for entertainment. The base clubs are usually filled with older military members with very different tastes in entertainment.  Hope this helps.


----------



## zippo360 (Jun 18, 2011)

Really? I did not know that. I guess it isn't as rigid as i thought.


----------



## Robert_S (Jun 19, 2011)

When the response is an immediate declarative, it's ended with salutation.

"Yes, sir/ma'am."

This is especially crucial if the subordinate is being disciplined.  It's a show of respect.

It's acceptable to address them by title, in some cases, especially when you need to distinguish one from others. "Captain, the Klingons are hailing us."

I wouldn't say it's required to use "sir" in every line of speech, but it's generally frowned upon if you don't use it at all.


----------



## C.M. Aaron (Jun 19, 2011)

I agree on your description of when to use sir/ma'am, Robert. Zippo, that's the formality that  creeps in as the separation of rank increases. From the lowest private to the highest general there are at least 19 different ranks. You can only get away with first names within a very narrow band on that spectrum. Generally speaking, discipline does not occur within that narrow band. If you are in trouble, you will be taken to task by someone much higher in rank than you are.


----------



## Robert_S (Jun 19, 2011)

C.M. Aaron said:


> I agree on your description of when to use sir/ma'am, Robert. Zippo, that's the formality that  creeps in as the separation of rank increases. From the lowest private to the highest general there are at least 19 different ranks. You can only get away with first names within a very narrow band on that spectrum. Generally speaking, discipline does not occur within that narrow band. If you are in trouble, you will be taken to task by someone much higher in rank than you are.



I would also add the stipulation as to how friendly the subordinate and superior are, at least within the constraint that they are not too far separated in rank.  If I didn't like/trust/respect my superior, there is no way in hell I would be informally friendly with him/her, except in the context of misleading him/her, and then only if it was profitable.

The particular person's approach to social relations and professionalism will take precedence, in my opinion.


----------



## C.M. Aaron (Jun 19, 2011)

One other thing that hasn't come up yet: Sir/Ma'am is applied almost exclusively to officers. Most Army and Air Force NCOs are "sergeant." Marines use the whole rank - "staff sergeant" or "gunnery sergeant," never "sergeant" unless that is the person's full rank. Navy calls all junior petty officers "petty officer." Senior petty officers are "chief" "senior chief," or "master chief" as appropriate, never "petty officer."


----------



## zippo360 (Jul 2, 2011)

Let me see if I got this right. Say an army sergeant gives a private an order. If i'm understanding this right, he/she would typically respond with a "yes sergeant". If it were say, a Colonel giving an order to a major, the major would typically respond with a "yes sir/ma'am". Correct?


----------



## Nicky (Jul 2, 2011)

yeah, that sounds about right. Sometimes when we accidentally called our sergeant's 'sir' they'd respond with "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living." I'm sure you can understand the implications (Marines).


----------



## Robert_S (Jul 2, 2011)

zippo360 said:


> Let me see if I got this right. Say an army sergeant gives a private an order. If i'm understanding this right, he/she would typically respond with a "yes sergeant". If it were say, a Colonel giving an order to a major, the major would typically respond with a "yes sir/ma'am". Correct?



They also like to see motivation, so you could say in response, "on it" or "will do" and they would generally over look a dropped salutation. You can finesse it a bit.

They are soldiers, but they are also professionals and people.


----------



## Winston (Jul 3, 2011)

A Gunnery Sergent with fifteen years service must address a new Second Lieutenant as "Sir."  The trick is to listen to tone and inflection.  When that Second Lieutenant address a Colonel, his "Sir" is much, much different.

Describing that nuanced difference in writing is the trick.  As mentioned, it's about relationships.  Both the Sergent and Colonel will have faces that have lines like a wrinkled battle map.  The Looie' face will be as shinny as his gold 'butter bars' on his collar.  The Sergent sounds like he just ate a pound of metal shavings, the LT sounds like finishing school. 

At ease, and carry on.


----------



## theorphan (Jul 6, 2011)

Being a technical flight officer in the USAF AUX I can second what Winston says.  As an officer I expect from my cadets and other people under me that they are respectful of me and their other senior officers but also to regular civilians.  We address civilians as sir/ma'am too.  But to my LT and Major who I work with every week when I say sir there is much more relaxedness behind it than one of my cadets would use with me.


----------



## BoredMormon (Jul 6, 2011)

As a reader without militay experiance...

Consitiency is important. Develop a set of rules and apply them throughout the army.

Different armies should be different. I should be able to tell at a glance if I am reading about the imperial army or the rebel forces, just by how they address each other. Sir is English. The French use a different word, the Germans another and so on.

Formal address corelates closely with army discipline. One might expect the Romans legions to be very formal. Atilla's hordes less so.


----------



## theorphan (Jul 6, 2011)

Good point boredmormon.  Sorry but I originally read your username as boredmoron and was kind of like why would someone call themselves a moron?


----------



## BoredMormon (Jul 7, 2011)

Lol, not the first time its happened. Ocasionally its been deliberate after a less then diplomatic critique I've given.


----------

