# I need a coat!



## Stormcat (Nov 17, 2015)

I greatly admire the "Browncoats", fans of the television series "Firefly". After all, I am one.

So I've decided that the rebel forces of my story will be the something-coats in honor of the TV series. In my WIP I've used Longcoats, Bluecoats, and even just "the coats". I can't seem to pick a nice coat-related name for them.

I was thinking I might name them after a coat style, but my knowledge of fashion stems entirely from Wikipedia. I know I want to use a coat with the following traits as a "uniform" for the rebels:

-Long, at least past the knee
-relatively form-fitting
-No cape-like attachments
-Worn mostly by men
-Would have been worn somewhere in the world in the year 1870 or later. 
-Made of natural fibers like wool or cotton.

I've already ruled out trench coats as "too obvious" and parkas as "too heavy". Can anyone direct me to a stylish option for coats?


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## Ariel (Nov 17, 2015)

Dusters--longer than trench coats.  They may or may not have the cape-like attachment but they're usually ankle length and relatively form-fitting at the top.


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## Lewdog (Nov 17, 2015)

I like @amsawtells idea, or you could go with something as simple as "long coats."  I mean in the American Revolution against the British, the British were referred to simply as "Red Coats."


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## Stormcat (Nov 17, 2015)

amsawtell said:


> Dusters--longer than trench coats.  They may or may not have the cape-like attachment but they're usually ankle length and relatively form-fitting at the top.



A quick Wiki search tells me that this particular coat style is used extremely often in westerns. (Or Space Westerns like Firefly, Captain Mal Wears one!) I want something a bit more unique.


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## PhunkyMunky (Nov 17, 2015)

Assassin's Creed Syndicate has some seriously cool coats. You could borrow from that... They seem to be a mixture of a Frock coat and Duster.


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## Stormcat (Nov 17, 2015)

PhunkyMunky said:


> View attachment 10587
> 
> Assassin's Creed Syndicate has some seriously cool coats. You could borrow from that... They seem to be a mixture of a Frock coat and Duster.



Oh I agree! But I want a specific coat-style name. "the Dusters" sounds okay, but "the Frock coats" is very blech.


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## PhunkyMunky (Nov 17, 2015)

Hmm. As for a catchy name, I'm trying to google Victorian Era slang and I'm coming up empty. I'll keep trying with other eras and see if I can find something suitable.

You know... There's a style of "American Western" shirt called a "Brushpopper"... Perhaps the coat could be called a "popper"?

:cookie: The coats could be called a "popper" and those who wear them "Long Poppers"?


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## Stormcat (Nov 17, 2015)

PhunkyMunky said:


> You know... There's a style of "American Western" shirt called a "Brushpopper"... Perhaps the coat could be called a "popper"?



Not a big fan of the wild west to be honest. I was looking more... eastern.

Maybe there's something to be found in the middle east or asia?

I know they have long, coat-like garments, but I don't know what they are called.

PS: a shirt is not a coat.


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## Terry D (Nov 17, 2015)

Long, heavy coats are sometimes called 'Great-coats'.


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## Ariel (Nov 17, 2015)

Macintosh coats are popular in Scotland.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mac...ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMI8c6I17uYyQIVRCuICh3_4Qlg


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## Bishop (Nov 17, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> I want something a bit more unique.



In that case, I'd pick a different article of clothing! Partly because browncoats and redcoats are taken and clearly you've used "coats" a lot of other places in your WIP. Might be good to vary the formula a bit in the world building in order to avoid soon getting to "cyan coats".


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## PhunkyMunky (Nov 17, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> Not a big fan of the wild west to be honest. I was looking more... eastern.
> 
> Maybe there's something to be found in the middle east or asia?
> 
> ...



I'm not speaking of shirts. I derived a name you could call your coats by taking from something else. You were asking about a catchy name to call your coats and those who wore them, so I suggested "Poppers" or "Long Poppers". The coat itself doesn't have to have anything to do with the Wild West 

 On the left is a variation of Victorian Era attire, and on the right is a "Mandarin Long Coat". 

I found the Mandarin coat on sale here: http://www.chineseclothingonline.co...8hZkokG9xQhDARRhfcbyDRoCCk_w_wcB#.Vkvq2e-FPcc

If there is another name for them, I do not know. But either way, I was originally suggesting that whatever style you chose, you could always derive the name you call such a coat from almost anything. You told us of some rebels... Would they not have their own jargon? Their own slang? I'm unsure what you're wanting for accuracy. Frock Coats could be accurate but sound "meh". Mandarin coats could also be accurate but also "meh", depending on who's ear your trying to catch. But then either could sound like the best idea since Marvin the Martian. Terry D's idea is also good. "The Great-Coats" could very well fit the bill. 

I tried to find some other coat-names for you but came up empty mostly. I tried soldier slang, sailor slang, British slang LOL. Sorry. So I thought I'd try other ideas and toss them in here. 

A shirt is not a coat, I understand this. I was merely trying to find a catchy name for your Long Coated Rebels.


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## Stormcat (Nov 17, 2015)

Terry D said:


> Long, heavy coats are sometimes called 'Great-coats'.




Not sold on the name.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Nov 17, 2015)

Mao Jackets. 

Only problem is, they're short. 

But it's your universe you're writing. Make them long if you want to. It would only take one sentence. ;}

Most longer jackets are specific to those practicing martial arts, a form of Buddhism, or just Samurai. 

But of course, in modern times, people wanting to adopt a unique style have taken from such sources, and such clothing may only indicate a fashion sense, as opposed to an occupation, or lifestyle. 

What time period is it? Pretty modern? You could get away with choosing an Asian coat style, and say the rebels have adopted it as a common uniform.


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## Ariel (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm fairly certain that the reason the "browncoats" were called browncoats is because, being from the fringe planets as they were, they mostly wore what they had.  And what they had for coats are the coats they would have worn on their ranches and farms.


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## Stormcat (Nov 18, 2015)

PhunkyMunky said:


> If there is another name for them, I do not know. But either way, I was originally suggesting that whatever style you chose, you could always derive the name you call such a coat from almost anything. You told us of some rebels... Would they not have their own jargon? Their own slang? I'm unsure what you're wanting for accuracy. Frock Coats could be accurate but sound "meh". Mandarin coats could also be accurate but also "meh", depending on who's ear your trying to catch. But then either could sound like the best idea since Marvin the Martian. Terry D's idea is also good. "The Great-Coats" could very well fit the bill.
> 
> I tried to find some other coat-names for you but came up empty mostly. I tried soldier slang, sailor slang, British slang LOL. Sorry. So I thought I'd try other ideas and toss them in here.



I'm not big on the idea that these rebels have their own language. These rebels are not ordinary rif-raff, they are the intellectuals the oppressive regime is trying to stamp out. (And before you say anything, Labcoats are right out)

Oh! I also found a picture of the coat I want to model the "uniform" 

tumblr_ltyg6fesyb1qa4wgqo1_500.jpg


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## Stormcat (Nov 18, 2015)

amsawtell said:


> I'm fairly certain that the reason the "browncoats" were called browncoats is because, being from the fringe planets as they were, they mostly wore what they had.  And what they had for coats are the coats they would have worn on their ranches and farms.



True, but my rebels are clustered in the capital city.


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## Ariel (Nov 18, 2015)

Firstly, academics and intellectuals typically do have their own jargon.  Ever speak to a doctor?  A lawyer?  A poet?  Especially about their field?  Secondly, they would probably have some sort of code to pass along their messages.  Thirdly, since they are academics why not use something that implies that that's what they are?  And finally, in most societies the richer and higher of a class a person is from the higher the level of education one has.  "Stamping out" your aristocracy is usually a bad idea--they have access to money and can hire armies.

If there's some other reason these individuals are to be feared and the rest of the society doesn't support them then I would use that and not the fact that they're intellectuals.


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## Stormcat (Nov 18, 2015)

amsawtell said:


> Firstly, academics and intellectuals typically do have their own jargon.  Ever speak to a doctor?  A lawyer?  A poet?  Especially about their field?  Secondly, they would probably have some sort of code to pass along their messages.  Thirdly, since they are academics why not use something that implies that that's what they are?  And finally, in most societies the richer and higher of a class a person is from the higher the level of education one has.  "Stamping out" your aristocracy is usually a bad idea--they have access to money and can hire armies.
> 
> If there's some other reason these individuals are to be feared and the rest of the society doesn't support them then I would use that and not the fact that they're intellectuals.



I'm still not developing a new code for them, I'm having a hard enough time with this WIP! no need to complicate it further.

These intellectuals are not necessarily aristocrats, They are literally just anyone who appreciates a good education, From the high school-equivalent student all the way up to the highest level of college dean. These people are willing to fight to receive education, which the state has banned because they would rather have an ignorant population study the "holy" books and the "holy" books only, rather than allow critical thinking and rationality.

During World War II, The Nazis attempted a massive extermination of Polish intellectuals. These were not hoity-toity professors (well, not all of them) but they could best be described as "comfortably middle class". Teachers, Doctors, Priests, Community leaders. Proabably not the first time the middle class of a nation has been assaulted so, but it's the incident that stands out the most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligenzaktion


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## Minu (Nov 18, 2015)

A sherwani would work quite nicely. Or the achkan. The sherwani was once more for the higher class, the achkan could be considered to some a more everyday sort of person. Or if you want more military-like a Nehru.


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## Minu (Nov 18, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> I'm still not developing a new code for them, I'm having a hard enough time with this WIP! no need to complicate it further.
> 
> These intellectuals are not necessarily aristocrats, They are literally just anyone who appreciates a good education, From the high school-equivalent student all the way up to the highest level of college dean. These people are willing to fight to receive education, which the state has banned because they would rather have an ignorant population study the "holy" books and the "holy" books only, rather than allow critical thinking and rationality.
> 
> ...




Unless education is free in that sort of setting 90% of your intellectuals are going to be upper class, maybe not aristocrats themselves (wealthy merchants for example) but they will be *very *close to that standing. You're not going to get the son of a pawn shop owner with extensive education because in this oppressive world you're making the governments are going to want to keep the masses as ignorant as possible so education is going to be *hard* to come by. 

Look up 1800s England for example, most educated peoples were of wealthy well-to-do families. Other "education" for the average civilian came from the streets and street smarts but not academia which wouldn't make them intellectuals in the literal sense. 


As amsawtell said intellectuals have their own jargon. Both I and my brother are in the medical profession, we can chat to we're "blue in the face" without any great misunderstanding between us - if I talked to another family relative [my mother] for example in the same way, all I'd get is the blank stare and a request to "speak English please". The fact that you are writing about rebels doubles this - every single rebel / spy group/organization has some sort of secret code otherwise they'd be dead before the night is through. Speaking the "queen's English", as the saying goes, which everyone and their mother understands in your story - rabble, government dog, and everything in between - is going to make your rebels very vulnerable.


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## Stormcat (Nov 18, 2015)

Enough with talking about the "language" of my rebels! I'll settle that in another post when the time is right!

Now, Minu, I've looked at those coats you mentioned, but they still don't seem to work. Perhaps I ventured too far east.

I provided a picture on the last page, but does anyone know what it's called?


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## Ariel (Nov 18, 2015)

Why don't you settle on a color that your army will wear and just pair that with the word coat?


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Nov 18, 2015)

But hey, if you invent a language....

You can invent two words that mean 'color-coat'

Boom, cool name. 

Name generators help.

...Just a suggestion.


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## Stormcat (Nov 18, 2015)

amsawtell said:


> Why don't you settle on a color that your army will wear and just pair that with the word coat?



I've been trying that, but I can't seem to find a suitable color or adjective that works.


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## Ariel (Nov 18, 2015)

Here's the thing--none of us know enough about your story to really help you.  We throw out suggestions and you fire them all down.  In the end the only person who cares about this is you.


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## Wandering Man (Nov 18, 2015)

You might check out Gentelmansemporium a www here and .com there should lead you to some photos and names of coats popular back then.

WM

Top Coat
Town Coat
Frock Coat
Tail Coat
Sack Coat

Winthrop Top Coat
Vigilante Town Coat
Callahan Frock Coat
Tail Coat
Sack Coat


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## Minu (Nov 19, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> Oh! I also found a picture of the coat I want to model the "uniform"
> 
> tumblr_ltyg6fesyb1qa4wgqo1_500.jpg





Stormcat said:


> I provided a picture on the last page, but does anyone know what it's called?



That photo looks made up. It's singular but it is not a proper uniform jacket nor an actual doublet which is indicated by the "buttons" / "clasps" beneath the guy's chin. The closest thing I'd suggest would be the following:

Navy Admiral's jacket - 1812 to 1746
*French* [has to be France] Colonial Officer's uniform jacket - mid to later 1700s
French styled "velvet jackets" of the early to mid 1700s.

Or a simple tailcoat - which was both civilian and military. 


Other than that I suggest making up a jacket. Because unless you're going to describe it in more than passing one sentence detail, you're going to leave your readers floundering trying to figure out what a 1700s Admiral jacket looks like because it is definitely *NOT* a modern design.


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## Stormcat (Nov 19, 2015)

Minu said:


> That photo looks made up. It's singular but it is not a proper uniform jacket nor an actual doublet which is indicated by the "buttons" / "clasps" beneath the guy's chin. The closest thing I'd suggest would be the following:
> 
> Navy Admiral's jacket - 1812 to 1746
> *French* [has to be France] Colonial Officer's uniform jacket - mid to later 1700s
> ...



I thought most military-style coats of that era were shorter, this coat is clearly knee-length.

I guess I am going to have to use "longcoats" to describe these guys. I was really hoping to use an already-named coat style to make my job easier, but I guess that's not going to work out.


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## Minu (Nov 19, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> I thought most military-style coats of that era were shorter, this coat is clearly knee-length.
> 
> I guess I am going to have to use "longcoats" to describe these guys. I was really hoping to use an already-named coat style to make my job easier, but I guess that's not going to work out.



Basic coats are short, google the coats suggested. Velvet coats of the upper class are knee length as are high ranking officers coats.


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## Stormcat (Nov 19, 2015)

I've found a better picture of the coat I want to use.

12239695_515155025320140_1063803639880910975_n.jpg

Now, I know this one is velvet, but it's mostly the style and length I'm going for. Fitted at the top, loose on the bottom. And in the back...

12033071_500601980108778_7671801422464320095_n.jpg

There's a bit of a belt so it retains it's nice shape and gives us at least a silhouette of Tom Hiddleston's gorgeous ass. Kinda want there to be a slit in the back so if our dashing hero mounts a horse, it wouldn't tear the coat.


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## Ariel (Nov 19, 2015)

That coat is called a frock coat.  Minu has suggested it to you several times.


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## Minu (Nov 19, 2015)

amsawtell said:


> That coat is called a frock coat.  Minu has suggested it to you several times.



I did as velvet coats are a version of the frock coat. As are the uniform suggestions, they are 18th century frock coats after all. So did Wandering Man, though the Callahan Frock Coat is probably a bit too modern for the era desired.


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## Stormcat (Nov 19, 2015)

amsawtell said:


> That coat is called a frock coat.  Minu has suggested it to you several times.




It is? well damn. I was hoping it had a cooler or more sophisticated name to it.

Looks like I'm stuck with "the Longcoats"


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## Minu (Nov 19, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> It is? well damn. I was hoping it had a cooler or more sophisticated name to it.
> 
> Looks like I'm stuck with "the Longcoats"



Frocks are more than 200 years old. The original term for frocks is the 17th century French - justaucorps. You really couldn't get more sophisticated during those eras than a man in a frock coat. That was the symbol of good breeding and upper class society (wealth really), what you are trying to make your rebels be correct because they aren't going to be low-classers in a society where the government is running roughshod. You'd rarely find a "paper boy" wearing a frock. 

At least when saying a frock-coat a curious person can google it if your describion lacks, "longcoats" - call it a trench, greatcoat, or a duster seeing as they're all "longcoats". To the opposite of a frock coat everyone and their mother, including the paper boy, would be wearing a duster. Even butchers and little shop owners during that era could wriggle enough cash together to buy themselves a greatcoat for Sunday church. 

The only other thing is banyans - which sort of look more like sleepwear, seeing as the name does roughly translate to "undershirt".


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## Stormcat (Nov 20, 2015)

Minu said:


> The only other thing is banyans - which sort of look more like sleepwear, seeing as the name does roughly translate to "undershirt".



Looked that up, seems like most of them weren't fitted, which is what I want.

If what you said about everyone and their mother having a coat that is long, but not a specific style, maybe I will go with "the longcoats".


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