# Time



## Pelwrath (Nov 17, 2017)

I've been writing poetry for perhaps two years.  My first poem was Symmetrical Alteration.  I enjoyed that style for several reasons, it made me think about what I was writing and I didn't have to rhyme.  I also found Free style enjoyable as it reminded me of the beatnik poets.  
 Here is one of my poems where I combined the two styles. I hope it's enjoyable.


 *TIME*
*Sandman’s crystals falling through formed conduit**s **stem.
*
_Crystals of spoon added sand, meander with the river carrying them.
_
*Conceptual force unseen and insubstantial always unmaking flawed creations. 
*
_The force of dreams is invisible and non-corporeal, yet miraculous and everlasting.
_
*Wisdom’s measuring stick, long of tooth, observes life stopping moments,wordlessly. 
*
_Life is measured by time, wisdom is measured by life, and words are irrelevant to what is seen._
*
Time is structure, inflexible, predictable; insipid, still impregnable tor.

*_Time is __a river, with branches and tributaries.  It floods and dries up, splits and rejoins. _


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## dannyboy (Nov 17, 2017)

so this is telling me rather than showing me - so this is what you want to say - can you find an image (s) that shows it?


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## Pelwrath (Nov 17, 2017)

Like I said, I'm new and not very good. I was trying for a point-counter point feel and the words are the imagery or picture. 

First line, a, hour glass

Second line-A meandering river, slowly filling with silt/sand.

Oh well, there is a training forum for poetry. I thought I had a good one, back to the dream board.


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## Darkkin (Nov 18, 2017)

Pelwrah said:


> *TIME*
> *Sandman’s crystals falling through formed conduit**s **stem.
> *
> Seriously listen to how formed conduits stem sounds when read aloud...It is not kind on the ear.  Also consider the sand is not a crystal.  It is a granule, a minute pebble, where as an actual crystal is a tessellation of mineral structures.  Sand has highly specific characteristics that are at odds with the context of the verbiage provided.  And consider what a stem is...Essentially a hollow passage, a formed conduit, so why overstate it?  Dial it back.
> ...




It is a good concept, but readers don't like having the idea handed to them.  They read to go along for the ride...Get inside the piece and give the concept a voice.

- D.


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## Pelwrath (Nov 18, 2017)

Thanks for your time and advice about my poetry.


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## TL Murphy (Nov 18, 2017)

This is an excellent critique by Darkin. It’s thorough and insightful.  I think she nailed most of the problems in the poem. I don’t have much to add other than to say for a poem about the abstract concept of “time”, it’s probably better not to use the word in the poem, especially if the word is used in the title.  I would even go so far as to say don’t use the word at all. You might title the piece “Sand”.  Abstract concepts are best alluded to than stated. We do this through concrete images that create associations in the reader’s minds.  The images of sand falling through an hourglass is a metaphor for time.  The image of a meandering river is a metaphor for time. The challenge for the poet is to present these images in a very clear way that does not explain what they are. This allows the reader or listener to free-associate without being told what the images mean. The poet can use just enough support in the images (adjectives, adverbs, etc.) to weave the images together in ways that the reader can make the connections. The sound of the words and how they flow together is critical to the reading or listening experience and helps build the context of the poem as a whole.  Always read your poems aloud to yourself and take note where the natural pauses are.  In free verse, these are indications of how to punctuate and where to break lines. Remove whatever does not add to the image.  The classic mistake of many writers is to present the image in concrete terms and then immediately explain it with abstract language.  Cut the explainations, cut the abstractions.


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## Pelwrath (Nov 18, 2017)

Oh well I don't have style and I don't have grace, I guess my poetry days are over, thanks for pointing out a painful truth. i just don't have it for poetry. Every poem in the history of mankind started with a good concept. No need for me to waste my or your time.


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## Firemajic (Nov 18, 2017)

Pelwrah said:


> Oh well I don't have style and I don't have grace, I guess my poetry days are over, thanks for pointing out a painful truth. i just don't have it for poetry. Every poem in the history of mankind started with a good concept. No need for me to waste my or your time.




Hello, Pelwrah... I am going to have to disagree with you.... I can see that you do indeed have style, maybe this poem did not showcase your poetic grace, but it did showcase your creativity.... I admire the artist that steps out of the box and is courageous enough to forge their own path.. sometimes it works and sometimes it does not, but you learn from it and you keep trying, and that is what I hope you do..... keep blazing your own trail....


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## Pelwrath (Nov 18, 2017)

Thanks for the support, Firemajik but I made grammatical mush out of this poem, I can only follow the path back that ALL of my poems like this are the same, grammatical mush. My symetrical aliteration are probably the same as well. I'll try another.


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## Firemajic (Nov 18, 2017)

Please do not stifle your creativity, that would be a loss.... Try this... read as many different styles of poetry as you can, drown yourself in it.... when you find a style that excites you, that sparks your creativity, study it, then make it your own, put your own spin on it....just don't stop writing... your creativity inspires me.... so, thank you....


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## Pelwrath (Nov 18, 2017)

That's the problem, I did symmetrical alteration and see what I did with it, grammatical mush.  I'll try a free style poem that others in another group thaough was rather good.  Then again, their opinion of this and my Burlesque poem, Having Fun With Death was they were good. So  much for those opinions.


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## jenthepen (Nov 18, 2017)

My advice: stop worrying about what others expect and concentrate on what you want to say. Poetry is an art form and you have to trust your instinct and learn to express those innermost ideas and emotions that drive your poem, in a way that works for you, before you even think about fine tuning. Critique is interesting and can be useful but it is not a definitive judgement on any piece of art. Never be discouraged by opinions, they vary according to fashion and expertise and, if you try to please everyone you will end up pleasing no-one, least of all yourself.

jen


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## TL Murphy (Nov 18, 2017)

Here's an exercise that can be very informative.  Find a poem you like; copy and paste it into your word program.   Now write your own poem beside it, word for word, line by line.  Don't use the original poem's words or ideas.  Use your own ideas and words, but use the style, the  structure, the grammer, even the puntuation or the original.  Note the original poem's use of poetic devices (meter, rhyme, assonance, alliteration, metaphor, imagery, repetition, hyperbole, antithesis, etc.)  and use those too.  When you are done, delete the original and rewrite yours as many times as it takes until it feels completely like your own voice.


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## dannyboy (Nov 18, 2017)

Jen's right - take what we say and use it or ignore it - your instincts, in the end, are all you have, and your poems, what you want to say etc, are not mine. Please do not be discouraged, take courage that we are reading your poems, work with what we say that you find useful, the rest ignore.


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## Pelwrath (Nov 19, 2017)

When I know and mention my inexperience with  poetry, I see your critique.  I then read my poem (or story) from the perspective of the critique. It's hard not to notice the credentials each has on the left hand side under their name.  That just adds  to my opinion of the critique. My reaction is similar to Asimov or Piper critiquing a story and saying take it or leave it, there is no leave it. Grammatically it was mush. Why? As a very new and inexperienced poet, I have no instincts about poetry, only the emotion and idea I was attempting to translate onto paper.

I write a critique with the goal of pointing out some things that, I feel, need improvement and what I liked. I don't believe that any story or poem is all good or all bad. I assume that every critique I receive is done the same way, otherwise it's not an effective critique. You didn't see anything good or redeemable in my poem.  That's your right


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## TL Murphy (Nov 19, 2017)

Pelwrah said:


> You didn't see anything good or redeemable in my poem.  That's your right




That's not true.  If you look at my comment again, I said that the hour glass and the river are metaphors for time.  This is a solid base for a poem and you have the bones there to work with.  The challenge is to exploit those metaphors in the most effective way.  What I see in this poem is that you are over-thinking and over-writing. Simplify and see where it takes you.


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## Pelwrath (Nov 19, 2017)

You did mention those are metaphors for time.  You never said or I didn’t take it as “These are good building blocks to use.”

IMHO. My perception: My poem lashed to pieces and nothing good was directly mentioned as to keep or what was liked.  Now, that’s the writers option and right based on how they percieve the poem. Maybe it had nothing redeeming about it to them


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