# Authors United Wants Antitrust Inquiry Into Amazon



## Marc (Sep 24, 2014)

I've been screaming this forever. Amazon strategy: Lose money until everyone else goes out of business, then take over. What are the odds the US Justice Dept. will actually do anything? Slim to none and Slim is out of town.

This is from the Financial Times. The New York Times must've missed it.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/04ee8ebc-43f2-11e4-8abd-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=intl


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## Schrody (Sep 24, 2014)

Gee, thanks for posting a link to an article where I have to pay or register so I could read it


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## Marc (Sep 24, 2014)

sorry about that, I didn't realize...


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## LeeC (Sep 24, 2014)

Marc said:


> I've been screaming this forever. Amazon strategy: Lose money until everyone else goes out of business, then take over. What are the odds the US Justice Dept. will actually do anything? Slim to none and Slim is out of town.



And you noticed this because you're a writer ;-) Yes, Amazon's responsible for burying even half decent writing in a deluge of dross. Before that writers were filtered (for the most part) by publishing houses with a profit sieve, seeking and expanding the largest dumbed down audience. So we've gone from one marginal extreme to a greater extreme.

It's business as usual. Think of Corporate America/World in general burying startups, or more specifically Microsoft who buried most of their competitors by only giving lip service to software piracy. It's the world we've created 

I hear ya bro, but it's the American way. We scream for an ever increasing economy, and government caters to the big corporations to provide the semblance of such. All the great institutions of man throughout history have been corrupted by the hand of man. 

Sorry, but everything has relevance in the bigger picture. I don't mean to downplay your concern


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## shadowwalker (Sep 25, 2014)

LeeC said:


> Before that writers were filtered (for the most part) by publishing houses with a profit sieve, seeking and expanding the largest dumbed down audience.



And I'm sure all the readers in the world appreciate your respect.

I doubt very much anything will happen to Amazon. I'd love to see them taken down a few miles of notches, though. I'm waiting to see what happens when they turn on self-publishers like they have trade and indie publishers.


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## spartan928 (Sep 25, 2014)

LeeC said:


> And you noticed this because you're a writer ;-) Yes, Amazon's responsible for burying even half decent writing in a deluge of dross. Before that writers were filtered (for the most part) by publishing houses with a profit sieve, seeking and expanding the largest dumbed down audience. So we've gone from one marginal extreme to a greater extreme.



The vast majority of readers base their purchases on author recognition and word of mouth. In my opinion, the notion that Amazon is contributing to some kind of confusion of readers taste by "burying" the market in self-published novels is untrue. Most people buy what they are familiar with and they familiarize themselves by researching authors they already like, best seller lists and reviews of succesful novels. To that end, publishers serve a purpose by reaching readers through marketing etc. Amazon doesn't care about the 1,200 self-published books a day that hit the streets, and frankly, most of the public doesn't either. All that dross as you call it has no impact on what people read at all.


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## Marc (Sep 25, 2014)

It's about having too much power and influence over an entire industry that's the problem. It's about restraint of trade. Amazon's treatment of Hachette is the best example. Give us a better deal on e-book pricing or the public will suddenly not be able to find your books on our website, or they won't get shipped for three weeks, or we know where your kids go to school..... It's f#*&ing Mafia tactics.

We fought a Civil War so that "...government of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation, shall not perish from the earth."
A. Lincoln


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## popsprocket (Sep 25, 2014)

A business can do whatever it likes. No one made ethics law, no matter how much it might suit consumers/suppliers. Trying to stunt them for doing something that's not actually illegal would be far more damaging to the system than simply allowing them to function.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 25, 2014)

But is what they're doing legal? That's why businesses get investigated - to see if they're breaking the law. Just because a big and powerful company is doing something and has been doing it doesn't mean it's legal. So no - companies cannot do whatever they like.


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## MzSnowleopard (Sep 25, 2014)

Here's a non paying / registration link to an article on the issue. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/04ee8ebc-43f2-11e4-8abd-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EL5enexD

After reading the article I was left with the impression that can be boiled down to the most basic of scenarios. These authors and publishers are sending the message to Amazon "stop being a bully and play nice with others".

While I see nothing wrong with a company showing favoritism to those who use those who use their services - in this case Amazon with their site CreateSpace, however, the other companies have as much of a right to exist as any other.

It's my opinion that companies like Amazon and Walmart need to get over themselves and accept that they aren't the only game in town- nor would or should  they ever be.

Personally, I love shopping at both places. They are convenient, mostly affordable, and easy to maneuver though (with the exception of brick and mortar during the winter holidays). Still, they don't carry everything I need or want- for this I rely on my local grocer and small shops.

When Walmart opened its 2nd store in my area, it put a lot of these shops out of business. Those that survived had done so because they offered or changed to offer things that the big store didn't- like home grown and made (in-state) wines.


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## Kyle R (Sep 25, 2014)

It looks to me (and please, somebody correct me if I'm wrong) that *both* Amazon and Hachette are using bullying tactics. Both sides are seeking higher profits.

Hachette has already been found guilty in a court of law of _collusion_ with Apple for trying to manipulate the market to earn higher profits. They are not innocent in this whole feud. 

The way I see it, Amazon has a right to set their ebook prices at $9.99 if they want to. They are the retailer. If Hatchette doesn't like it, they should find another retailer to host their books.

Instead, Hachette is trying to bully Amazon's retail rights.

Hachette wants to use Amazon's platform while simultaneously deciding how Amazon prices its books. Amazon wants their books sold at lower prices. Hachette wants their books sold at higher prices. When Amazon refuses and plays hardball, Hachette cries foul and says Amazon is hurting authors.

This is a case of *both* companies fighting for their own business goals, with neither side agreeing to budge. Unfortunately, the authors in the middle are the ones getting the short end of the stick.

Doubly unfortunate is that many authors don't seem to realize Hachette is after the same thing: $$. :grief:

Or is there something I'm missing here?


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## MzSnowleopard (Sep 25, 2014)

I'm crying BS - now the link that I found is being blocked by a pop-up demanding registration / sign in. And so far , the alternate links I've found redirect back to this very page. This is WRONG! It limits / restricts access to free information.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 25, 2014)

Well, let's not forget - when the publisher makes money, the authors make money. When the retailer forces lower prices - or a lower share to the publisher - the authors lose money. Seems a no-brainer to me.

But I really think, while not holding Hatchette totally innocent, one only needs to look at how Amazon has dealt with publishers in the past. Indeed, with suppliers in general. Amazon is not looking out for anyone but themselves. Money "lost" on book sales is easily made up with their other offerings. Books are the draw for customers, nothing more.


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## Schrody (Sep 25, 2014)

Hey Kyle, new novel?


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## Kyle R (Sep 25, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Hey Kyle, new novel?



Yep! Hachette and Amazon are in a dispute over how much it sells for, though.  (Just kidding! It's in the edit phase right now.)


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## Schrody (Sep 25, 2014)

That's great! What is it about?


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## Marc (Sep 29, 2014)

New York Times article on the issue. Big names join the Authors United movement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/b...mazons-e-book-tactics.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0


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## shadowwalker (Sep 29, 2014)

Marc said:


> New York Times article on the issue. Big names join the Authors United movement.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/b...mazons-e-book-tactics.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0



I think the last paragraph in that article speaks to the damage Amazon is doing more than anything else I've read. It is well on its way to calling all the shots, and authors will pay for it.


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## movieman (Sep 29, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> I think the last paragraph in that article speaks to the damage Amazon is doing more than anything else I've read. It is well on its way to calling all the shots, and authors will pay for it.



From the numbers I've seen posted online, Amazon's print sales aren't even half the US market, and its competitors in the ebook market include some of the most powerful tech companies in the world, like Apple and Google. In many countries, particularly those where it doesn't have its own online store, it's a small fry in ebooks, with local competitors having the largest market share.

Frankly, all this fuss from big name authors just makes me feel they're completely out of touch with the modern publishing world... and antitrust law.


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## Marc (Sep 29, 2014)

movieman said:


> Frankly, all this fuss from big name authors just makes me feel they're completely out of touch with the modern publishing world... and antitrust law.



I think you're right about not understanding antitrust law. As outraged as some of us may feel over Amazon's predator-capitalism, they're trying to keep ebook prices lower not higher. If it was the other way around, then there would be a good argument. Also, Amazon is not a creature created by mergers and/or acquisitions. Literally, there are dozens of other sites where people can download the same ebooks that Amazon sells. So, unfortunately, I don't think there is anything that can be done about Amazon's behavior. Change can only happen from a grass roots campaign to try to change the buying public's consciousness regarding this issue. You can't legislate consciousness just like you can't legislate morality.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 30, 2014)

They're trying to keep ebooks priced lower but take a higher percentage of the money. That's less profit for the publisher and thus the author (the ones doing the actual work and taking the risks). Publishers have one source of income - books. Amazon has the power because it gets its money from a lot more than books. One has to understand those conditions to understand how destructive Amazon can be to publishing - and don't for a minute think the same squeeze play isn't in the future for self-publishers.


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