# BULLETS



## VonBradstein (Dec 1, 2017)

Odd one here, but for gun owners (US based) I have a question about bullets - I do not own a gun and have no interest. This is for handguns. 

The internet tells me I can get a 'value pack' of 100 .45 (I picked that because i knew it was a handgun caliber, but I'm not sure if its the _standard _as far as most commonly owned handguns) of "Federal Ammunition" brand rounds from Walmart for $30.

What I'm having a little more uncertainty on is:

- What are the common brands for bullets? The run-of-the-mill, nothing too fancy, Lay-potato-chips brand(s)? I am looking for the cheapest type that are also ubiquitous in stores.

- Am I about right with the pricing at $30 bucks-ish for 100?

- Do stores commonly hold sales on bullets? Like 10/20/50% off. I saw a picture of a 'back to school sale' at a gun shop but not sure if it was for funnies. If so, what are some common promotions you have encountered? What sort of bulk? Is it cross-brand or limited to a certain brand? 

Lot of questions, sorry. Also I am sure there's a lot of 'it depends'. I guess I'm just looking for norms.

Thanks!


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## VonBradstein (Dec 1, 2017)

Oh, one more...

As far as the gun in question, I selected a Smith & Wesson M&P simply because it is the one I had seen and heard from before, but I'm not sure how believable that kind of gun is for my character. My character is a gun novice who has inherited the gun from somebody they killed (so knows nothing about it) and the original owner was a regular, middle-income Joe type - not a gun enthusiast or anything, but also somebody who would likely have chosen a typical 'man's gun'.

Are there any particular models that would better suit a character of that description?


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## Plasticweld (Dec 1, 2017)

I would change it to a Glock model 19 in a 9mm probably the most common side arm and most dependable.  Used by police and popular among shooters.  Not a collectable gun, but a real workhorse.  Dependable often a choice of police departments 20 some years ago so there are many on the market.  It is one of the more popular choices for competitive shooting tactical events like Idpa 

.45 are expensive to shoot more than twice the price of the 9mm   Price on the $11 for 50 rounds  At Walmart and  $53 for 250 rounds at a place called Cheaper
than Dirt.  

It would be the same price for 100 of the .45


Keep in mind this is for ball ammo not defensive rounds, which would be about 3 times or more the price depending.   Federal ammunition has been around forever and is probably the most commonly known name for bargain ammo that is reliable


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## VonBradstein (Dec 1, 2017)

That’s awesome, thanks. Yeah I’ll definitely change it with the Glock. Forgot about 9mm. 

Anything on in store promos? I know it sounds minor but it’s actually quite an important plot point in this particular book since I need a reason for the MC to get talked into buying something (they originally go into the store to get rid of the gun)


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## VonBradstein (Dec 1, 2017)

Also and I acknowledge I could probably figure this out via the internet but I am woeful with understanding gun jargon...what is the difference between ball rounds and defensive rounds that makes them pricier? 


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## stevesh (Dec 1, 2017)

'Ball' is a military term that refers to ammunition using standard solid copper-clad lead bullets, perfectly suitable for self defense, but many (including me) use hollow-point bullets (you can search for that term to see the difference) for greater impact.

If your character 'inherited' the gun (sounds like he stole it), I don't think it matters what type, or even caliber, it is.

Around here, $30 would be a _very_ good price for 100 rounds of .45ACP, even at Walmart. For the last ten years or so, limited availability of certain types of ammunition (especially handgun calibers) has been a problem, so it rarely goes 'on sale'.

I suppose, if the character went into the store to sell the gun, the owner/clerk could tell him that they aren't buying that particular model at that time, but sings the praises of that model as a self-defense weapon in order to sell the guy ammunition, and maybe other items like a holster and cleaning kit.


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## Plasticweld (Dec 1, 2017)

Normally in the fall they seem to run specials on ammo because of hunting season.  I don't recall there ever being a special on ammo that was tied to an event.  The only exception would be the threat of changing regulations.  When the implemented the assault weapons ban back in the late 80's  {I think that was the time frame.}  primers and bullets and loaded case became scarse.  Anytime that someono talks about taking away guns it does more to promote sales of them than anything else.  That would be the most logical reason for someone to make a purchase today verses putting it off till tomorrow.  




VonBradstein said:


> That’s awesome, thanks. Yeah I’ll definitely change it with the Glock. Forgot about 9mm.
> 
> Anything on in store promos? I know it sounds minor but it’s actually quite an important plot point in this particular book since I need a reason for the MC to get talked into buying something (they originally go into the store to get rid of the gun)
> 
> ...


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## Winston (Dec 2, 2017)

VonBradstein said:


> ...What I'm having a little more uncertainty on is:
> 
> - What are the common brands for bullets? The run-of-the-mill, nothing too fancy, Lay-potato-chips brand(s)? I am looking for the cheapest type that are also ubiquitous in stores.
> 
> ...



Winchester "white box" 100 round ammo pack (9mm) regularly goes for less than $30 USD.  It's very common.
Not sure if going to the store is an integral part of your story, but I do most of my ammunition shopping on-line.  There are few to no restrictions in most jurisdictions in the US.
The Glock is an excellent choice for a common pistol.  I would also consider a S&W SD9.  It's a cheaper model for non-enthusiasts.


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## VonBradstein (Dec 2, 2017)

Winston said:


> Winchester "white box" 100 round ammo pack (9mm) regularly goes for less than $30 USD.  It's very common.
> Not sure if going to the store is an integral part of your story, but I do most of my ammunition shopping on-line.  There are few to no restrictions in most jurisdictions in the US.
> The Glock is an excellent choice for a common pistol.  I would also consider a S&W SD9.  It's a cheaper model for non-enthusiasts.



It has to be a store, unfortunately. Which sucks because its hard to find in-store prices online (especially for indie stores).

Looks like I may need to visit a gun shop.


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## Ralph Rotten (Dec 2, 2017)

Tell me more about your character and the source of his gun.

Although the Glock is a fine weapon (preferable to the M&P), it is a dull, featureless weapon for a story.  Because it is striker fired there is no hammer to be cocked, no safety to be disengaged (the safety is integral to the trigger).  However, in the hands of an amateur it is prone to ADs (accidental discharges).  The Glock is really not a weapon for a novice.  But in 9mm it does hold a lotta bullets.

Another ordinary man weapon would be the 1911. With a grip safety, thumb safety, and exposed hammer, it can be a lot for a novice to figure out in the heat of battle.  It is an advanced weapon, and your rookie character would likely experience difficulty using it properly, which could make for interesting narrative.

If you want an ordinary weapon that your character could use without much incident or training then go with a Smith & Wesson model 19 in 357mag.  He could also shoot 38special thru that gun (which is cheaper than 357 magnum.)  The double action trigger reduces ADs, but the weapon still offers the option of being cocked and fired.  (Cocking it makes the trigger pull shorter, better for aiming.) The double-action trigger takes practice, so your character may shoot like crap unless he cocks the gun first.  Being a revolver, it does not jam like the other weapons mentioned.

So the question is; how do you plan on having your hero use the weapon?  Will he have problems or master it surprisingly quick?


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## VonBradstein (Dec 3, 2017)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Tell me more about your character and the source of his gun.
> 
> Although the Glock is a fine weapon (preferable to the M&P), it is a dull, featureless weapon for a story.  Because it is striker fired there is no hammer to be cocked, no safety to be disengaged (the safety is integral to the trigger).  However, in the hands of an amateur it is prone to ADs (accidental discharges).  The Glock is really not a weapon for a novice.  But in 9mm it does hold a lotta bullets.
> 
> ...



It's a she, if that has any bearing.

Without going into too much detail on the plot, the character is an accidental gun owner who comes into possession following the semi-accidental death of its owner (who is a man). Following this, she at first attempts to get rid of the gun, only to end up not being able to. After that she begins to use the gun, though on a rather limited basis to commit mainly crimes of persuasion. There are not really any shootout scenes.

So my priority for the gun is finding one that would make sense for her husband, a regular and not extremely wealthy guy. It can be any gun, really, but I didn't have in mind anything particularly specialist. It's a fairly minor feature of the story tbh, its just a subject I know nothing of and would hate to make a glaring error on.


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## Ralph Rotten (Dec 3, 2017)

You may go with a good solid revolver.  Semi-auto pistols are complex for noobs, and they have terrible triggers as well.  
You may wanna go with the Model 19.  It is a common pistol, very reliable, and gives the shooter the option of 357magnum or 38 special.  It is the original point & click gun, and has a great double action trigger. The only control is the cylinder release.  And she can cock it to let someone know she's serious.

I mention that last line because a few years back I read a book where the author had their character cock a Glock.  I laughed so hard...but then three paragraphs later the hero double-cocked a Glock.  See, a Glock is a striker fired weapon, the hammer is internal so the gun is already half cocked.  There is no external hammer to cock.  Not only that but the ONLY guns in the world that can be double-cocked are dog-eared shotguns and vintage elephant guns.  So as you can see, the writer (and editor) had failed to properly research the topic.  There were a lotta reviews that mocked the guy for this faux pas.

If your character is buying bullets, you can have her originally want 357 magnums because someone told her they were awesome (they are actually) but once she gets a load of the price for good, defensive 357 ammo she'll balk.  So the clerk offers her 38 special to plink with.  38spcl is way cheaper.  Mebbe the clerk tries to question her about what she wants the bullets for and she lies [badly] and says she just wants to shoot targets, so he recommends the 38s.  Shooting 38s is common fare in this scenario---they are much cheaper.  Fiocchi or Winchester would be recommended brands for 38 special ball ammo; $20 a box (*for 50 rounds)*.  357 defensive ammo would cost the same for a box of *20 rounds.*

Lemme know if you have any questions on this topic.  I've freelanced for Guns & Ammo, Combat Handguns, Blackpowder Times, and edited an online magazine called Gunversation for about 10 years (not the Gunversation site that's there now.)  Getting caught on a technical error really turns off readers, and a lotta them will take the time to review you badly over a minor oversight.


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## Plasticweld (Dec 3, 2017)

VonBradstein said:


> It's a she, if that has any bearing.
> 
> Without going into too much detail on the plot, the character is an accidental gun owner who comes into possession following the semi-accidental death of its owner (who is a man). Following this, she at first attempts to get rid of the gun, only to end up not being able to. After that she begins to use the gun, though on a rather limited basis to commit mainly crimes of persuasion. There are not really any shootout scenes.
> 
> So my priority for the gun is finding one that would make sense for her husband, a regular and not extremely wealthy guy. It can be any gun, really, but I didn't have in mind anything particularly specialist. It's a fairly minor feature of the story tbh, its just a subject I know nothing of and would hate to make a glaring error on.




The Glock is common and it is probably the weapon of choice among those who want dependability and cost effectiveness.  I own a Glock 19 which is my most common carry gun. I carry it everday.  I also have the model 23 which is the same gun in a .40 cal with a bunch of custom work done to it. and the model 26 which is the same gun and caliber as the 19 but is a cut down version, shorter barrel shorter mag so it holds fewer rounds. 


My brother who is a firearms instructor for both law enforcement and civilians and owns over 50 pistols still carries the Glock 19 every day as his primary weapon.


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## VonBradstein (Dec 3, 2017)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Tell me more about your character and the source of his gun.
> 
> Although the Glock is a fine weapon (preferable to the M&P), it is a dull, featureless weapon for a story.  Because it is striker fired there is no hammer to be cocked, no safety to be disengaged (the safety is integral to the trigger).  However, in the hands of an amateur it is prone to ADs (accidental discharges).  The Glock is really not a weapon for a novice.  But in 9mm it does hold a lotta bullets.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking an interest 

I really don't like to go into a lot of detail about a work still very much in progress, its kind of a superstition, however the weapon I can say with the exception of two scenes which involve actual murder, the gun isn't really going to be used much. When it is used its only a couple of shots that are fired. 

I favor easy-to-use, however I admit to enjoying a good old fashioned 'ker-click' for the purposes of dramatic tension, so maybe a revolver or other gun with a hammer would be better. As far as type of gun, its really not overly important to me EXCEPT that I want to avoid anything too obscure because nobody in this book is a gun enthusiast. The conflict that arises is of a domestic nature. I guess I am looking for the kind of gun that would be believable as something sold by a knowledgeable seller to a person who walks with little shooting experience. A first-time gun. Not sure where a revolver falls in on that. I always figured revolvers as being somewhat more niche. They definitely seem less common for homeowner-protection weapons?

But I know nothing


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## VonBradstein (Dec 3, 2017)

Plasticweld said:


> The Glock is common and it is probably the weapon of choice among those who want dependability and cost effectiveness.  I own a Glock 19 which is my most common carry gun. I carry it everday.  I also have the model 23 which is the same gun in a .40 cal with a bunch of custom work done to it. and the model 26 which is the same gun and caliber as the 19 but is a cut down version, shorter barrel shorter mag so it holds fewer rounds.
> 
> 
> My brother who is a firearms instructor for both law enforcement and civilians and owns over 50 pistols still carries the Glock 19 every day as his primary weapon.



Interesting to hear you carry it everyday. I assume you conceal carry, not open? If so do you use a regular CC holster or keep it somewhere else?


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## Plasticweld (Dec 4, 2017)

VonBradstein said:


> Interesting to hear you carry it everyday. I assume you conceal carry, not open? If so do you use a regular CC holster or keep it somewhere else?




I use what is called a belly band style holster.  The gun sits just behind my right hip. Mine is a custom made holster and is very comfortable to wear all day.  Most holsters are looked at as how comfortable they are then how concealable they are.  Anyone who carries all day or even part of the time a holster plays a huge part of the process.  The Glock for that reason, its shape, its overall weight are what make it practical.   

The SW Body Guard is not much bigger than my cell phone, I still use a flip phone.  That pretty much goes in my pocket ever day and that goes in what they all a pocket holster which is just a cover to break up the outline of the gun so you can not tell that it is what I am carrying. 


I buy logs, timber and equipment weekly, it is not uncommon for me to have 10,000 or so in cash on me on any given day depending on what I am doing.  I live in a small town just about everyone knows what I do for a living.  While I am fairly well off, the rumors of my wealth far exceed my reality.  It would be pretty foolish for me to not take reasonable precautions.  I have a conceal carry permit, while I have been asked by police on occasion if I carried, I told them "Even to church on Sunday."  I have never shown my permit to a cop...ever.  Kind of baffles me a little but I am often mistaken for a cop or military and somehow don't fit their vision of a bad guy.  That is interesting dynamic that I thought I would pass on.  How you carry yourself when armed is a little different.  I am in good physical shape, I am very confident in what I do, very aware of my surroundings and the people who are around me.   I also always look people in the eye and make contact with them, acknowledging them.   

In the world of predator and pray it makes a difference.


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## Ralph Rotten (Dec 5, 2017)

While no one in your story is a gun buff, many of your readers will be.
Go to a gun range and rent a few guns.
Glocks are great weapons (My G26 is one of the very first to come out, and a great CCW weapon) but they have a short trigger pull so more than a few rookies have shot off toes, fingers, and bedroom walls.  

Revolvers are still very much a thing.  Just go to any gun forum and ask if they think revolvers are dead and see what happens.  I'd sell a kidney for a Colt Python.

Just don;t make a gun faux pas in your writing.  The second a reader thinks they are smarter than the author, they view your work with an entirely different eye.


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## stevesh (Dec 6, 2017)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Just don;t make a gun faux pas in your writing.  The second a reader thinks they are smarter than the author, they view your work with an entirely different eye.



True, but the wrong reason, I think. If an author gets his facts wrong about guns, or some other subject about which I have some knowledge, I have to assume he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to other subjects which I might want to learn about. 

It's disturbing how many authors of police or military thrillers clearly know nothing about guns and can't be bothered to learn, so hats off to the OP for wanting to get it right.


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