# - JUNE-2010 -



## HaroHalola

"_Hiya_, Jen!...Hiya
Jen, _umm_..."     "Billy."     "Yeah, It's me...
you ok, are you
sick?"     "Well..."     "Guess what?  It's almost
Summer!, swimming & stuff..._umm_ 

you ok?"     "Billy,
remember last Summer?"     "Oh,
sure!  We went to my
grandma's and grandpa's in _umm_
Florida, _hahaheehee!_

remember we said
'Pensicocacola' &
'Pensipepsicol...'
     "Billy..."     "It was great, we're gonn..." 
     "It's gone."     "My mom just talked to

my grandma...and she
said..."     "It's _gone_.  It's really _Pen-
sic-koca-cola._
I've been writing a Poem
about It, It's called 'Targobbled,

Globbtarred And Feathered'
...Billy, you ok?  Bil..."     "Jen
I gotta go, I'll,
I'll see ya, _umm_, tomorrow...
at school, ok?"     "Sure.  It's near

Summer..."  (He turned &
ran, she turned back into her
Poem, the thoughts came

rapidly, the words 
slowly she heard the dolphin 
voicings, their birds _b'peep _

then
_Humans do not deserve this Eden._

_H.e.m-H'H_
                                          6.5.MMx.


Note:  For "Poems For The Children", for _Anthology: A Hero's Journey_ (2008-2010, Ed: Erik Ekstrom; see also: http://iwvpa.net/mantelhe/index.php )


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## Pete_C

As a reader, I was alienated by this pretty early on. Had I been looking for something to read, I wouldn't have gone beyond the first stanza. Because it was here, I perservered. It didn't really deliver, and whatever you were trying to get across (there is some hint of the intention of a closing moment) became lost because the structure was so fragmented.

Your biggest sin is that you put your indulgence before the ease of the reader. Sure, make things challenging, make it interesting, but ensure you do so with enough craft to make us want to read it.

I'd rethink the format. As it stands it doesn't work (and the flow of punctuation is incorrect so it further throws the reader). Trust me, if you think an editor or a reader will struggle to allow you an indulgence, you're wrong. Let the reader rad, digest and think. Sure, challenge them, but don't expect them to work for you.


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## HaroHalola

Hey Pete - As a reader, I was, pretty early-on, alienated by this; however, because It is here, perseverance is key in defense of the indefensible. In the interest of syntax/format & fairness, the structure, _i.e_., spacings denoting the dialogue (5 spaces between speakers) had to be supplanted by the dreaded-for-Poetry quotation marks, due to the capability(?), I presume, of the software; nonetheless, the "structure" is unique in Its adoption of both dialogue & (if you failed to notice) the _Tanka_ (& _Haiku_) form. Had you noticed the note underwriting the Poem, you'd have gleaned this to be-of-a-piece, timely, & highly-messaged. How much of my Work have you experienced to be qualified to perceive & judge the "biggest" transgression of my intent/style/craft... My Work is Its own merit, I am disheartened & forgiving of your dislike of my Work/unwillingness to challenge yourself to gain what the Work puts forth. TY for the suggestions, however, I am certainly not a devotee of sin, let-alone sinful verse & Its pursuit. You do not know me, nor my Work well-enough to assess "indulgence," so I heartily cannot "trust" you; I did, however, attempt to read your threads, though unsuccessful in making anything but others' comments appear, I do so want to be given every opportunity to reciprocate, kindly send a link (here or PM) for me to follow. I do not ask _anything_ of any reader, especially in the context of "working for me," again, my Work is Its own merit, & I certainly have no indulgent intent, nor to have to lead any reader by the hand & eyes to witness their own subjectivity, which IS the intent of my Poetry/Writing. Man, if you believe _this_ Poem is inaccessible...!? This is not a matter of right or wrong, rather of one's gift, craft, & passion for messaging through Poetry, & if I wanted to be a cookie cutter, I'd have chosen to apply at the Euphorium Bakery, eh what? To wit, I've had few trucks with readers/Editors thus far, tho' those have been quite unpleasant (say, are you by any stretch EriK from MWC; no?, well Baron can inform to this). Please do continue to read (persevere) my Poetry, I will attempt to indulge yours - _H'H._


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## Reese

It doesn't make any sense. Your poem doesn't make any sense, and neither does your response. It kind of starts off as a decent children's book, but then it dissolves into something else...

No one is here to make YOU feel like a decent poet. If we can't understand what you're saying, then frankly, no one cares.


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## HaroHalola

Reese - "Decent" as in Decorous? Accomplished? Unexposed? "Children's book?" Decent children - Giving? Friendly? Unexposed? Unfamined?  Seems to me, if no one (which is doubtful in consideration of the feedback in my short tenure on WF) "understands," that ought be fodder for investigation?, given the clones of poetasters of which the _Morlde_ is rife.  What's essential & what you & Pete seem to not "get" is Poetry is by contemporary definition a modality for reaching the ignorance of the masses whose daily existence is predicated on sucking onto the produced media, with beer & whatnot in hand.  Perhaps when the black, oily death reaches the Commonwealth(?) you'll better comprehend this Poet's messages -   _H'H._


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## Reese

I dub thee insane.


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## Baron

Reese said:


> I dub thee insane.



Flaming is not acceptable on this site.  I dub thee banned for 24 hours.


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## Pete_C

HaroHalola said:


> Perhaps when the black, oily death reaches the Commonwealth(?) you'll better comprehend this Poet's messages -   _H'H._


 
And perhaps when you hop off that high horse, you might appreciate that sometimes listening to honest feedback (whether you like what it says or not) can actually give you something worthwhile to chew over.

Anyhow, as you seem to not really want feedback (why did you post it if you didn't want comments?), I shan't waste my time further with your work.


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## vangoghsear

I dunno.  I got it right away.  The funny thing is, HH, I found this to be one of your more accessible poems without really working at it.  The use of teens conversing works to play off the seriousness of the situation because there may be a tendency among some young people to ignore world events in lieu of fun.


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## SilverMoon

> But seriously guy, you banned some one for saying ‘I dub thee insane’


iDrew, This "guy" is now the owner of this site and is doing his best to keep it civil. Would you call it civil to read someone's work then call the author insane? Really, if you sweated out art would you appreciate someone attacking your character? I wouldn't. Laurie


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## Martin

I think you lack some quotation marks in last line in Stanza 3 and onwards, to make the conversation make sense. Besides that, I didn't catch any hint as to why the structure wouldn't simply break the lines whenever the speaker changes. You say something about Tanka and Haiku to Pete, though I believe those forms, rather than simple structures, have more to do with conveying meanings and feelings at a right and simplistic pace, something I didn't perceive from your stanzas. It seems nothing more than a conversation forced into a seemingly poetic form...
You also have some strange capitalisation that seem rather tucked on. Very subjective indeed, but if that is your goal then it's fine.

As for the content, I didn't get the "cola/pepsi-" references nor the "Targobbled" or "Globbtarred" ones. Google didn't help either so I take it it's just some internal thing between the two speakers.
Your ending note I couldn't match up with the content in general. Are these two persons supposed to symbolise all of humanity? Or does she, at an apparently young age, reach this conclusion because of this brief and somewhat awkward conversation with a class mate?

Sorry HaroHalola, maybe it was too deep for me, coz I didn't really get it...

And off-topic, I agree with Drew, I wouldn't call that flaming, just a rude remark...


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## Baron

Martin said:


> And off-topic, I agree with Drew, I wouldn't call that flaming, just a rude remark...



Could you please explain the difference between flaming and a rude remark?  Ad hominem is ad hominem.

HH:  With regard to the poem, I agree with Vangoghsear.  I'm also glad that not all write in one style and voice as so many who offer critiques try to impose.


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## Martin

Baron said:


> Could you please explain the difference between flaming and a rude remark?



Well, flaming I would say is an (often continuous) action with the sole intention of humiliating another poster on an online forum. Reese was more so distancing himself from H.H.'s reply, admittedly in a rude manner, but still in relation to what was said and not in a purely degrading manner. A warning would have been in place, but a ban I think not.


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## HaroHalola

vg - I am pleased to see you, have you respond to my Work as you always have, knowing It well; indeed, It IS accessible, not in _designed_ counterpoint to my other, rather as a dialogue (again, noted in the "postscript") between "innocents-informed", gleaned in-part by Martin's observation.  TY, this topic, portrayed in Its simplicity - regardless of the current proximity (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=431979476102&comments#!/profile.php?id=528571230 - re:  _World Ocean Day_ & "The Ocean Project)) - critically affects all of us.   _H'H._


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## vangoghsear

I believe I am right in saying that Reese had been cautioned previously by moderators about his type of post.  I am sure he meant it to be more funny than malicious, and as you say a way of distancing himself from HH's reply, but either way it was rude.



> As for the content, I didn't get the "cola/pepsi-" references nor the  "Targobbled" or "Globbtarred" ones.



It's a play on words about the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico hitting the coast of Florida at Pensacola.  HH will sometimes invent words to convey his meanings.


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## vangoghsear

You posted in there while I was Responding HH.  Good to read you again.

Using the young people's conversation made me think of lighthearted trips to a welcoming beach, then the contrasting thoughts of what they would actually find there worked rather well for me.

Moderator's note: 
At this time I would like to remind everyone to please stay on topic.  Thank you.


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## Martin

Thanks for the explanation but I still don't get the poem though. Unless it's something like, because these teens don't take the oil spill utterly serious, humanity don't deserve to live in eden? A wake up call or something. If that's the case then it's pretty thin I'd say... sorry if I'm being ignorant here, I'm just trying to grasp a message or deeper meaning behind it...


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## vangoghsear

iDrew said:


> ‘I dub thee insane’ = RUDE!
> Ban the bloke for making a lame remark, sure, I'm with yer 100%, but to call that rude.  Yer 'aving a larf!
> 
> 'ave a word with yerselves guys.  Seriously.
> 
> 
> xDrew
> 
> 
> P.S.  Remind me Rob, we have had those chats about heavy handed and inconsistent moderating, have we not?


What does this comment have to do with the OP's post?  Please stay on topic.


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## SilverMoon

I cannot say that I grasp Haro's work entirely but I do read him for a few reasons. I like the challenge to stretch for meaning. Writing itself is like a puzzle for me as I think it is for all. How we put our "puzzle piece words" together is one of the joys of writing. Yes? Now, H's work seems never to be lacking neologisisms or portmanteauxs and I always enjoy the discovery, all in perfect context in a line or stanza. Often you cannot even say stanza but a sort of Stream of Consciousness with lots of white space here and there, sometimes. I believe Haro has created for himself a new genre of writing. I might be wrong. There may be more of the like out there.

Why limit ourselves to what we're accustomed to? Look at Picasso and writers like T.S. Elliot, back when, who strayed from the norm. Taking the time to explore and critique is what we do here and very well, I think. Now, something new has come along. I always like to keep and open mind. It's condusive to learning.


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## HaroHalola

Martin - TY for your assiduous attention to the context & format of my Work, the latter, of course, pointing-up the essentials of the missing quotation marks, voided by the repeated attempts at formatting; the quotation marks (you will notice I have amended same), as mentioned supplanted the original spacings denoting character differentiations, as It is virtually impractical for continuity to allow the reader to determine who's speaking simply by line breaks, as you have suggested, tho' "Jen's" & "Billy's" tones differ, in this piece the _modus operandi_ was to (emotionally) by the _denouement_ have them at cross purposes; if you read my other Work re: these themes (as noted in the "postscript") you'll glean the essentials of what I am referencing.  

The employ of the _Tanka/Haiku_ forms (which inhabit a fair amount of my Work) is specifically to impart "simplicity," a motif within the motif of dialogue, addressing a complicated & devastating occurrence.  As you have observed, my Work is non-conformist (_ala_ G.M. Hopkins, John Ashbery, Pound...& the artist Mark Tobey, Baron, SilverMoon & vangoghsear have addressed & summed this up quite nicely, I believe); in this regard It is no surprise to those whom have been consistently reading my Work that I employ _Haroisms_,_ i.e._, neologisms, invented language, _portmanteaus_...  So, as a result you found your pursuit of definitions in convention to be fruitless.  These "terms," of course are key elements in the dialogue, & essential to an understanding of the "narrative."  

I have addressed the query as to the symbolism of the children, in a prior reply; the ending unequivocally "matches-up" with the prior content, as the reader is brought-along in the dialogue's mounting tension - _Jen's_ disconsolation juxtaposed with _Billy's_ flair for fun...& then (literally) spun 'round...  Again, this Poem is of a piece, & the cypher to their characters can be better perceived through the other Writings; in short, _Jen_ is the sage child of _Planete Morlde_, yet _Billy_ (the _everyman_) is gaining through her wisdom & his willingness to mentate.

My hope is to shed a bit of light for you; It's not "teens" whom are not taking the debacle seriously, It's the whole of humans which is not taking the_ Big Debacle_ seriously, & _this _ is the cry for not deserving to live on _Eden_, would any reasonable one peer about & disagree with this premise?  _H'H._


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## HaroHalola

vg - TY; Precisely!  (I am wont to write more, but lost in the profound simplicity of your observation which nails the Jello to the seawall) -   _H'H._


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## HaroHalola

Hello Baron - A bit of a ruckus, my friend, _eh what_?  Reminds of the bad ol' days, happily gone by, over at the _MWC_ corral, wonder if them stallions, mares, & ponies'r calmed-down any since, shor' did 'semble some Dodge/Tucson City shoot-outs fer a while... (Oh man, am I off "topic?" - sorry vg, won't happen again!)

As usual, TY for "getting" me, I am honored to be a participant/contributor (the _Newsletter_ was over-the-top approbation.

_InRhyme,
H'H._


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## HaroHalola

SilverMoon - _THIS_ is a major aspect to why I Write!  TY!   _H'H._


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## Martin

Silvermoon, I agree with what you say, but it is only true to a certain extent. Having monkeys play instruments might be considered a new art, but if we relate to the established human music scene, at least we'd want to teach them some rhythm to go on. Same example could be used with poetry and painting; innovation is nice, but when it becomes too subjectivated or internal for the creator, then the critiques should stand up and let know, instead of praising something just for being different...

H.H. I think I got what your poem was about the first time around then, that the kids symbolise humanity. I have two issues with your conclusion then:

1. The poem speaks for the whole humanity, but it is in fact only a minority of it, that have the privileges to even start thinking about the world situation. The vast majority is far too concerned with just upholding their lives of themselves and their families. Your generalisation is somewhat empty. May I suggest changing the last "Humans" into something a little less reaching...

2. You use Eden to describe our world. I don't see where that is coming from. Can you call Somalia Eden f.ex.?

In general the conversation you have displayed convey this notion of "sigh, I just can't believe the human stupidity" which is a feeling I think most of us can relate to. But to stretch that out to the ethical judgement you conclude with, would for my taste take a far deeper investigation than simple symbolics without any concrete reference to this stupidity, other than a teenage boy's hormones.
In other words, there's really no issue in the piece. It's just a wake up call, without any substance.

I hope I'm not too harsh here, but I'm quite sensitive when it comes to such worldly matters.


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## HaroHalola

Martin - I do not want to engage into a philosophical discussion, this would merely be parochialism; simply stated, the _Morlde_ is broken.  And fixing Her, let alone salvation is monumental requisite of Billions of Her citizens' willingness to change-through-thought-&-action the paradigm for Life on the _Planete._  Humans are "hiding" with their pointy heads up into their foul darkness, entertained by the "Owners' " recreations (this includes manufactured wars), in more denial than cuckolding husbands caught-up with their pants' pockets' Motel 6 (or is that _Best Western_?) receipts!

Somalia!?  You are missing the very point; of course Somalia is not Eden, It is the human hand which has caused the suffering & strife:  The entire _Planete_ is a fallen_ Eden_ which we do not choose to understand, let alone deserve,_ this_ is the point I am attempting to convey through the Poetic voices of an 11 yr. old girl, & boy, far wiser in their naiveté.  Who's "sighing?", what "hormones?"  I heartily suggest you read the background Poems' links beneath this piece, see the mindset I have attempted to establish through "Jen & Billy."  Through my Work, I hope they speak for most of us, because if they do not, It's inevitable they will not speak for any of us.  Additionally, I suggest you read the Work of Johan Galtung in re: to Empyre.  As for "concrete reference", my Poetry attempts to promote/create awareness, for any other concrete reference, I borrow from my friend/artist-poet/collaborator, _TAUS_ (here, "go home"), "...The water and sky as black as the News." 

"...just a wake up call?"  What more do you need to navigate your sensitivity & "harshness" into activity?  Must the messenger also be the mentor & marm?  Time will only come to be realized as a precious commodity when the hourglass is bereft of Her sand; I would also quote _Jor-El_, but Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, Arundhati Roy, Naomi's Wolf & Klein, Helen Caldicott, Howard Zinn, Edward Said, Lenny Bruce, Michael Moore, David Eberhardt...are more available...   _H'H._


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## Martin

Well, your views might be very true, but still a postulate out of context. I'm just commenting on what I found in this one poem.

About Eden, what you want to say is, Earth was Eden before humans came around? I'm sure the last dinosaurs won't quite agree with you on that one...

From what I read in both the OP and your further responses, I think you have some strong feelings and that your heart holds good intentions and I'm sure the two of us would agree on many things, concerning the world situation. It might be that I'm missing all this knowledge and pre-understandings from not reading your other works, but then you also must admit, that this piece cannot stand alone and still hold the meaning you've intended. How to know the ages of the kids f.ex.? Reading other poets shouldn't have anything to do with it, unless you're making a counter-piece or a parody or something...

Anyway, in regards to the poem, you can take or leave what I've said. I'm sorry if it's no use to you at all as it seems you imply...


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## HaroHalola

Friends-Readers-Countriesmen/Women - If anyone can give me the code for Editing the title...?  TY -   _H'H._


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## Linton Robinson

Wow.
You see some loopy threads, but this has to be a contender for all time hall of fame.  

Anyway, the way I heard it, it was Peniscola


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## HaroHalola

BULLETIN:  "...And this just in:  The BP/Deepwater Horizon oil explosion has just reached Tampico; experts from neighboring states have been flown into the area.  One source, requesting anonymity, was quoted as saying (translated):  'This is very bad, especially with the Summer tourist season ahead; the blanket of blood-rusty-colored oil is spreading rapidly onto the coast & It seems no amount of tamping will assuage the flow..."  Officials are now meeting to consider changing the name of this part of Mexico to 'Yukkatan.'  This has been a special report from KRAP-TV NEWS, your source...  Stay tuned for further developments."

"We now return to regularly scheduled programming...'The Short Days Of Our Lives', already in progress."


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## Reese

Ok, I digress. Your poem starts as a dialogue between two kids. Then one kid starts hearing dolphins speak. None of the poetry really made me "reach" anywhere, whether into myself or into others. It kind of begin and then dissolved fairly quickly.

Is that enough for you?


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