# Making a lovable villain??



## Ashtree (Jan 17, 2015)

Hey folks! I'm new around here and this will be the first post I make to ask for advice! If I'm in the wrong folder or something, pardon me haha. Anywho, I have the main idea, plot and characters more or less fleshed out for my fantasy series. However, there is a simple problem with my main character.

I really want to write this story about a villain who becomes a hero. However, I read a lot about how people won't stick with a book if they don't like the main character, which is kind of a problem with starting the story from the perspective of a "villain". I'm kind of hoping that, because he turns around and becomes a hero, that will be enough to make people ultimately come to enjoy him as a POV character. There's a lot of junk I'm leaving out of the next paragraph for the sake of brevity but I'll go over the basics of what you might need to know in order to give me your opinion on what I should do to make it so he's still technically a villain in the beginning, but likable enough by the reader to keep them reading.  

He's a cold, surly workaholic potentate who is involved in some nefarious plots for some questionable reasons (he believes that, in the long run, his nation will benefit from these nefarious plots- so he is doing it for a technically good reason, but he doesn't realize the actual scale of the nefariousness going on). He thinks poorly of regular people and rarely makes time for his family. The people he governs think pretty well of him; he's an excellent manager and strategist, extremely intelligent as well as a devout religious man (religion is very important to this fantasy culture) and they think of him as a war hero, with respectable hobbies like pipe collecting and racing. But really, he's just kind of an elitist a**hole. He does care for people even though he thinks of them as provincial lackwits, but it rarely shows. Eventually he gets kicked out of his spot as potentate and exiled from his nation when it is revealed that he is a part of the previously mentioned nefarious plots (which I wont get into). He is very bitter about all of this, and tries several times to find a way to usurp his usurper and regain power, but none of it works out. He gets a reality check when he suddenly has to rely on regular people for simple survival, and he lives with crushing shame and anxiety that brings him down a few notches. He wanders around for a while, gets dragged through the mud a bit before he picks up some new ideas and ways of seeing things, and eventually he learns some powerful quasi-science-voodoo techniques that make him a force to be reckoned with. There comes a time when said powerful voodoo is the only thing that will be able to save countless lives back in his homeland, where some stuff (that I wont get into) has gone terribly awry, and he decides to save them despite being kicked out and shunned. Though he is still as pragmatic as he's always been, he has learned some things about life and people that make him much warmer, considerate and philanthropic than he once was. 

SO. All of that being said. How do you think I can keep people's attention long enough for them to stick around for his intense development later on? Thanks in advance for the advice! I really appreciate it and so does my MC!haroh:


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## Morkonan (Jan 17, 2015)

Ashtree said:


> ...
> SO. All of that being said. How do you think I can keep people's attention long enough for them to stick around for his intense development later on? Thanks in advance for the advice! I really appreciate it and so does my MC!haroh:



You're going to do just fine.

Let me introduce you to this character:Gerald Terrant is a major character in C.S. Friedman's "Coldfire Trilogy." The first book starts off really simple - Gerald Terrant murders his wife and children in a sacrificial rite for selfish gain. It's graphic. It's bloody. It's repulsive. There are evil, nasty, forces involved. Then, he spends a lot of time murdering innocent people. He sets virgins loose on the grounds of his terrifying castle, then chases them through the woods and murders them. Lots of them. This is what he does on weekends... Really a fun guy, a "life of the party" sort. Well, _undead_ of the party, but who's quibbling over details? 

The point is that he's a terribly engaging character. Yes, he's reprehensible. But, that doesn't keep the Reader from turning the page. In fact, the Reader is going to be turning pages fast, trying to catch up to various points in the story were Terrible Gerald makes an entrance. He's just plain magnetic. And, later in the series, he is "redeemed." Redemption is _A Big Deal ™_ for these sorts of characters and it never fails to draw a crowd.

Heeeere's Elric!  Elric, the principle hero of the "Elric of Melnibone'" series, by Michael Moorcock, is a drug addicted albino, cavorting with Demon lords, boffing his cousin and dreaming of his kingdom to be as he wishes it was, rather than as it is. His cousin usurps his throne and Elric gets pissed off, grabs a soul-sucking hellsword and plots his revenge, which ends up killing everyone in his kingdom. _Everyone_, including his lover/cousin/concubine/whatsits, who's soul is devoured by Elric's own sword, goes the way of the dinosaurs, thanks to Elric's rage and ego. Then, he goes off and broods. Along the way of his constant "brooding" (Heroic fiction loves powerful "brooding" heroes), he has lots of adventures and Readers have rushed the shelves for half a century to read about them. He's still a whiny little so-and-so, sometimes. But, don't tell him I said!

Elric is an iconic figure in heroic fiction. He's one of the best examples of an Anti-Hero, as well. But, he also develops firm standards and, though his sword literally drinks the souls of his enemies in order to sustain him, he's a much beloved character.

Neither of these guys is someone you'd want to meet in a dark alley. But, Readers love 'em. Why? It's because that no matter what drives these heroes or anti-heroes, the Reader can make some empathic sense of it. And, even if they can't, viewing someone like Gerald Terrant or even Elric as a "tortured soul" isn't too difficult. Gerald has his own "ethics", of a sort, and even Elric has "morals", though he consorts with demons and sucks up souls like candy, at times. What people want in a character is not dependent upon whether or not that character appears to be "good" or "evil." The only true quality they're looking for is whether or not the character is well-written.

Welcome, Dr. Hannibal Lecter. This guy is about as far away from "good" as one can get. But, what was done with him? He got to be a hero, for gosh's sake! If Hannibal Lecter can be viewed in a positive light by anyone, surely your protagonist can reach such a lofty height!

First of all, emphasize those qualities that make your character "human." I don't mean "good", I mean "human." Give him motivations that seem realistic, no matter what they are or even how illogical they might be. Give him emotion and passion, just like real people have.  Expose his weaknesses, when you can do so without destroying him, and be sure to demonstrate his strengths, no matter what purpose they're used for. Write him well. If you do that, you will have no problems at all in gaining and keeping the Reader's attention.

You've got it easy - Your character has some positive motivations and even the most squeamish of Readers are going to accept him because of that. Pay attention to how he develops during the course of the story and contrast his "old self" and his "old motivations" with the "new self" he has discovered and the more appealing and "righteous" motivations that you are going to introduce. Your character can go from "quasi-villain" to "redeemed hero" in just a few pages and your Reader will be along for the entire ride.

PS - Your character and story sound wonderful! Nice job!

PPS - A question like this can be posted in the regular Discussion forum, but since it involves a sort of standard mechanic that could involve some research in how it's handled, it might be fine in Research. If not, a Mod will move it, so don't worry too much.


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## Deafmute (Jan 17, 2015)

its a terrible lie that people wont read something if the main character is bad. thats hogwash, we love bad people. Hell half the stories we love out there its the villain that makes us most interested in the story. No, its not that people hate bad guys they hate BADLY WRITTEN GUYS. and that is and always will be true whether its your superman boy scout or Snidley whiplash. People want a character they can believe. That is not easy to do and honestly is probably the make or break of any good writer. It is not that hard to come up with good plots and if you read a lot conjuring up moving descriptive verse will come easy, but writing believable and enjoyable characters is hard. Takes time and practice. 

best advice i can offer is look to books, movies and tv shows and pick apart your favorite characters and understand why you love them. What makes someone seem real? Depth usually I don't care if I am reading about a 57 year old pedophile with halitosis if you make me really believe that this is a real person, I can enjoy the character.


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## Ashtree (Jan 17, 2015)

Thanks guys! I feel a lot better about all this already


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## SociallyAwkward (Feb 2, 2015)

One could argue making a villain likeable cheapens him. Speaking from a purely black and white train of thought, a villain should not be likeable, after all they are a villain. People will often try to understand a villain, find a relatable aspect of the character or even a redeeming quality to rationalize a villain. You do not have to reveal the answer to these qualities because the villain should be beyond the comprehension of all but those of a similar vein. You run the risk of making a villain an anti-hero and morally grey by giving him such things.

To keep people interested in an unlikable character? Put an emphasis on his actions, make them interesting and keep him one step ahead of the reader. Get people asking the questions that I mentioned in the previous paragraph. In short, you do not necessarily need a likeable character, all you have to do is get the reader thinking about him. Obviously this is looking at it from a certain point of view, but I hope it helps!


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## JustRob (Feb 3, 2015)

So he's the prodigal son, so to speak? Who decides that he's a better person than before, the people collectively or a more unblemished character who speaks for them? If the latter then maybe the early interplay between these two can sustain the early interest and also later demonstrate how he has changed against the constant standard set by the other.

I have a similar problem of bad becoming gradually good, but in my case it really is a boring story gradually becoming more interesting after the readers have probably given up reading. You have chosen to write about a "bad" man and I have chosen to write about a bad subject, a boring office job. As has been said, people like bad characters but not badly written characters, but boredom is boredom no matter how well it's written about. In fact the better that I depict it the more boring it gets. So I agree, don't worry, there are those of us with bigger problems than yours.

Of course, Elric is only one facet of Moorcock's Eternal Hero, who is a convergence of characters from his separate series of books, just as you plan to portray more than one facet of your character within one story. Readers will wonder whether your character has more than one side to him or whether he's all round black. In Heinlein's _Stranger in a Strange Land _the fair witness Anna makes the statement "It's white on this side" about a house because she can't see the other sides. Equally she doesn't know whether tomorrow it will still be white, so why would a fair reader assume that your character will always be black? Readers have to have faith that the writer has actually written a story, even if it seems to be a long time coming together amongst all the words. The less patient ones will never get the full benefit of reading good stories that develop evenly. There are good and bad readers just as there are good and bad writers; we can only do our bit and the rest is up to them.


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## K.S. Crooks (Feb 14, 2015)

One way to make a villain 'lovable' is to provide understanding reasons for their actions. An example is the character Magneto in X-Men comics. He was always against normal human because of the experience of being in a Nazi prison camp during WWII. He say first hand as a child how people who were thought of as being "different" were treated. The only difference he sees as an adult is that he has the power to stop them before they get a chance to do it again. Providing a reason for the villains actions can make their cause sympathetic even though we may not agree with their methods. Magneto is now a hero, not because his goal changed, but because his methods did. Hope this helps.


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## JamesR (Feb 17, 2015)

You could always go down the classic sob-story path by giving the villain a saddening past--ex. his or her mother died at a young age, was bullied, lost a kid, etc.

But the thing is that this is a bit generic.

I find that exploring motivations is more innovative and original. Operate off the principle that your villain is merely a utilitarian who believes that the ends justify the means. Make his ends understandable and good--for example, a villain who wants to wipe out death or aid the poor--opposed to selfish and evil. This will introduce a more complex shade of grey that will perplex the reader and cause them to feel conflicted over who is truly good and who is truly evil.


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