# Nighttime



## musichal (May 6, 2018)

*Nighttime*

_by musichal
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_As shadow veils the day in silent grace
and night arrives to take the daylight's place,
sunset turns the west a painted fountain spouting,
then fades sunlight, fades the summer west,
fades birds' singing, fades a distant shouting.

The rising moon emits its pale moonlight
and all the clouds surrounding it turn white.
Wind-blown yellow fields of flowing grain below
bowing with their yields, laden but at rest,
safe in golden rays then softly glow.

And as the moon moves ever on its way,
basking in the starlight it loves best,
it disappears, o'ertaken by the day.​_



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## ned (May 12, 2018)

hello - hate to see a poem disappear without any comment -
but it is difficult to put a positive spin on this one. 

for starters, there is not much night time going on.

you've gone for a fairly tight rhyme scheme, which is to be applauded
but the wording is too clunky to make the rhymes sound natural.

As shadow veils the day in silent grace - as silent shadow veils the day in grace


and night arrives to take the daylight's place, - and night time falls in to take it's place, - what's really happening?




sunset turns the west a painted fountain spouting, - give more thought to the word-choices - spouting is hard to rhyme here
so swap things around - sunset turns the sky a painted spouting fountain.


then fades sunlight, fades the summer west,


fades birds' singing, fades a distant shouting.- quit the 'fades' - drawing blood from the iron-stone mountain - for example....





The rising moon emits its pale moonlight - not great, for a poet


and all the clouds surrounding it turn white.- get real and more poetic with the imagery - within a halo of clouds shining silver white


Wind-blown yellow fields of flowing grain below - what? going back to irrelevant daytime imagery in these lines.


bowing with their yields, laden but at rest,


safe in golden rays then softly glow.





And as the moon moves ever on its way, - a poet should do better than 'moves'


basking in the starlight it loves best, - wrong and awkward sentiments here


it disappears, o'ertaken by the day. - does it disappear? - and overtaken would make things easier.


sorry about the mash-up Mus - but this needs more invention with the word-choices and imagery to work.

think on it.................Ned


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## musichal (May 12, 2018)

I like it.  You don't.  Fair enough.


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## ned (May 12, 2018)

Fair enough?

you have been inspired - and have spent time and effort on writing this poem - and that is only to be encouraged.

I can only offer my suggestions on how your poetry might be improved - if not for this poem, than maybe for others you may write
and I would never dream of being so glib as to dismiss it simply with 'I do not like it' - I mean, how would you feel about that?

especially, if you consider your poem flawless....


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## musichal (May 13, 2018)

Flawless?  Cheap shot.  I'm out.


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## LeeC (May 13, 2018)

I guess you know my thoughts Hal ;-) I see a simple theme well executed


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## ned (May 13, 2018)

I'm sorry Mus, but what else am I to conclude, if you flatly refuse to engage with detailed critique and dismiss it out of hand with the rather condescending comment 'I like it, you don't.'
Is that not a cheap shot? - but I'm not one for stamping my feet and saying 'I'm out'.

As said, taking on a tight rhyme scheme is only to be encouraged - and truly, I can only wish that you consider the points I made in my critique in the vain hope that they might help toward an improvement in the standard of your work. That's all I care about.

and getting empty platitudes from your mates does your poetry a disservice - along with the perception of this forum as a place for honest and serious critique.

enough said..............................Ned


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## musichal (May 13, 2018)

Critique is one thing;  pronouncements from On High quite another.  I tried to withdraw gracefully.  While I understand your critique well enough, I don't agree with all of it.  I feel that if I wrote it like you would - or as you think I should - this poem would lose a great deal of its lyricism.  I could be wrong about that, I admit, but to my ear the lyrical quality is there and is important.  If I wrote as you, then you'd think it almost passable?  Furthermore, I would be superfluous, anyway.

Consider every word.  As if I don't.  And edit them over time.

Funny how a thread online can become like a room just entered.  You have managed to create a room in which if anyone dares to say they like the poem, then they have poor taste.  I think that a disservice, and an insult to innocent bystanders.

I did find it very funny that you accuse me of the condescension that drips from your fingers like acid rain, caustic and bitter, through your keyboard and onto the world.

Thank you, LeeC, for the empty platitudes.  And thank you, Ned, for the critique.  If you perceive my lack of agreement with your assessment condescending, then forgive me my condescension as I will yours.  If you forgive me, I'll forgive you.  We'll forgive each other 'til we both turn blue, then we'll whistle and go fishin' in heaven.


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## Olly Buckle (May 13, 2018)

The first few lines are very visual, I like the way you brought sound into the last  line of the first verse, maybe you could have brought in other senses as well, temperature drop, change in humidity for example?
I was not  sure about the yellow fields of grain, doen't everything tend to  lose colour in moonlight? On the other hand it was good to come down to earth from everything in the sky.
All your first lines are ten syllable lines, do you count your syllables? And do you know the feet, iambs, trochees, spondees, anapests and dactyls? Getting the rhythm bang on can make a huge difference to the impact of a poem, and personally working on that side is something I have come to really enjoy as I come to grips with it, though I still find it difficult to decide which syllables are stressed sometimes


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## ned (May 13, 2018)

hello - and thank you Mus for your considered reply - it's fine if you disagree with my critique, as long as you acknowledge it as such.
it has taken several posts, but we finally got there...

so, why couldn't you do that from the start - and save ourselves all this nonsense?

it comes down to whether you wish your poem to be blessed with serious comment - or be damned with faint praise.
how's that for caustic..............(smiley face moment)

forget about it...............Ned


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## musichal (May 14, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> The first few lines are very visual, I like the way you brought sound into the last  line of the first verse, maybe you could have brought in other senses as well, temperature drop, change in humidity for example?
> I was not  sure about the yellow fields of grain, doen't everything tend to  lose colour in moonlight? On the other hand it was good to come down to earth from everything in the sky.
> All your first lines are ten syllable lines, do you count your syllables? And do you know the feet, iambs, trochees, spondees, anapests and dactyls? Getting the rhythm bang on can make a huge difference to the impact of a poem, and personally working on that side is something I have come to really enjoy as I come to grips with it, though I still find it difficult to decide which syllables are stressed sometimes



In a word, yes.  As you know, some forms require counting - the etheree, diamante and sestina immediately come to mind.  I've written two sestinas in iambic nonameter, which I call my nine-foot tall poems, lol.  Eighteen syllables per line (for 39 lines, 6 sixains plus a final tercet) was taxing to count (with adherence surprisingly tricky), and I truly relate to where you're coming from with the syllable-stressing comment.  Sometimes one can become so muddled and enmired it's difficult to discern iambic from trochee.

Most forms of my own construct tend to require counting, too.  And I use my fingers to count, like a tyke does math. I like having structure to follow.  I'm not delusional about my writing, considering myself a slightly talented hack.

As for the colors in the night comment - I noticed that when I wrote it - but on a bright, full moon night the moon does not remove quite all the colors from our sight, as Moody Blues have it.  Besides, we saw them all day and know they were yellow.


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## Olly Buckle (May 14, 2018)

> I truly relate to where you're coming from with the syllable-stressing comment. Sometimes one can become so muddled and enmired it's difficult to discern iambic from trochee.



I found reading things where I knew the structure so I knew what ought to be the stressed ones helped, especially with things like Wordsworth where the stress is so quiet. I found knowing it was iambic and looking for it suddenly the reasons for subtlety became apparent, if that makes sense.


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