# What would the police do in this situation?



## ironpony (Jul 28, 2018)

For my story, a cop is on patrol and as he is driving down a neighborhood, he passes a and someone comes running out of it, and people in masks and gloves are chasing after him.  The cop thinks it's a dangerous situation so he intervenes and tries to stop one of them.  The person tries to get away but the cop subdues him and as the masked man is being subdued, he yells towards the others in the house that the cops are here.  The cop handcuffs him and then makes his way towards the house.

He figures that they may be trying to get away or destroy evidence as to why they were warned that the cops were there.  So he heads in only to find them leaving with a tied up woman who they are carrying out.  They drop the woman and leave her so the cop will stay with her and they can get away.

The woman tells the police that she got drunk and invited the guys over for a kinky fantasy of hers where they wear masks and pretend, etc.  However, the prosecutor and police feels that this gang of suspects fits the description of a similar gang who was going around committing kidnappings before.  So they want to prosecute the one guy who was caught by the cop.

All they have to charge him with is conspiracy to kidnapping.  The woman says she agreed to them coming over, and agreed to being tied up as part of the fantasy, but they forcefully took her from the place, against her knowledge while trying to escape the police, before relinquishing her.  So therefore, the prosecutor is going to charge the one suspect with conspiracy to kidnapping, in hopes that the suspect will cut a deal and give up the names of the others, since the gang is suspected of past crimes.

Now since the indictment on the arrested suspect is made to try to get him to take a deal, would the police think that the gang would come after the woman, thinking she is a threat, even though she would have only met one or two of them while intoxicated, and did not see the rest out of mask before they came over?  Would the police assign officers to watch her, protect her, or just steak out her place to see if the gang returns to find out what she told the police and possibly silence her?  Especially the night before the preliminary hearing, which is the night my plot takes place.

Would the police assign someone to steak out her place in case they show up to come after her?  Or would they not do this, and just leave her home alone?


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## RobbieO (Sep 24, 2018)

She would have to be placed into witness protection for this to happen.  The man who ran out of the house was obviously not carrying the woman and can argue that he did not know the other men would try to make off with her, so it would be extremely difficult to charge on that alone in the first place.  Also, no cop would handcuff a man and then make his way towards a house.  He would stay with that man until backup arrived, giving a description of what he was seeing by radio.  Other units would respond from the direction that they were last seen traveling in an attempt to intercept them.


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## ironpony (Sep 24, 2018)

Okay thanks.  However in my story, if the cop waits for back up the villains will make off with the tied up woman and get away.  What if the cop saw them put the tied up woman in the back of a van while trying to escape, would he go after them then?


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## Guard Dog (Sep 25, 2018)

ironpony said:


> All they have to charge him with is conspiracy to kidnapping.  The woman says she agreed to them coming over, and agreed to being tied up as part of the fantasy, but they forcefully took her from the place, against her knowledge while trying to escape the police, before relinquishing her.  So therefore, the prosecutor is going to charge the one suspect with conspiracy to kidnapping, in hopes that the suspect will cut a deal and give up the names of the others, since the gang is suspected of past crimes.



That's not conspiracy, it's attempted kidnapping, since they were caught in the act. Or it was here, when I wore a badge, anyway.
And no, there wouldn't be any witness protection involved, unless and until something bigger, with actual names of people thought to be guilty came out. The most the woman would get would be extra patrols, or officers stationed outside of her residence for a while.

At the point you mention, it's all too much speculation, no matter what the D.A. thought or wanted. And he/she would know that.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Sep 25, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  However in my story, if the cop waits for back up the villains will make off with the tied up woman and get away.  What if the cop saw them put the tied up woman in the back of a van while trying to escape, would he go after them then?



The cop would call for backup the second he saw multiple masked people, and he'd do what he could to contain the situation. He also would not enter the residence unless there was reason to believe someone's life was in danger - screams, gunshots, etc.

If the perpetrators were already outside, then there's even less reason or cause to enter, unless the homeowner says something that would warrant it -"My ____ is inside, and he/she has been injured!" would do the trick.

Remember, if everyone is outside, for all the cop knows someone knocked on the door, the woman answered, and was yanked outside. The only crime scene he's aware of, and has first-hand knowledge of is what he can see. He can't just go charging inside without good articulable reasons for doing so.

G.D.


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## ironpony (Sep 25, 2018)

Oh yeah for sure I see what you mean, but I was told by police in my research, that the police can enter if they believe something criminal is going on.  For example, when the one person is arrested, he yells towards the others, that a cop is here.  The others then run back in the house as if they are trying to escape or get away.  So wouldn't that be probable cause to enter, cause they run back in at the sight of a cop, which is a sign that they have something to hide?  If not, then I can write it so he sees them sneaking the woman out the back, through a window or something.


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## Guard Dog (Sep 29, 2018)

It might be, but only a suicidal cop is gonna run inside a house full of multiple suspects by him/her self.

The cop wouldn't enter without backup, I don't care what you see in the movies. 


G.D.


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## ironpony (Sep 29, 2018)

Yeah that's true, I know what you mean.  But in order for the story to go where I want it to go, I want the cop to enter before the criminals all have time to get rid of all the evidence.  If the cop chooses to just sit on his but and let the criminals get rid of all the evidence, then what?  The reader is just going to think of the cop as an idiot then.

I know it's not realistic, but you don't want the readers to think your main character is an idiot too though.


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## Guard Dog (Sep 30, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Yeah that's true, I know what you mean.  But in order for the story to go where I want it to go, I want the cop to enter before the criminals all have time to get rid of all the evidence.  If the cop chooses to just sit on his but and let the criminals get rid of all the evidence, then what?  The reader is just going to think of the cop as an idiot then.
> 
> I know it's not realistic, but you don't want the readers to think your main character is an idiot too though.



What evidence are they gonna get rid of? Are they gonna stuff the woman down the toilet? 

Is this a kidnapping or a drug deal?



ironpony said:


> All they have to charge him with is conspiracy to kidnapping.



Am I missing something here?

If your cop goes inside a residence he's not familiar with, that's got several criminals hiding in it, he's likely gonna be dead or seriously injured in no time flat. Then your story has to be picked up and carried on by someone else, or your readers aren't gonna just think the dead cop was an idiot.

Also, he can't leave the perp he's already caught unattended, for any number of reasons. Especially to go off, break policy, and get him/her self killed. That's just so far outside the realm of realism as to not be ignored.

That's basically where you are so far.




G.D.


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## ironpony (Sep 30, 2018)

It's a kidnapping.

Well I've seen in other fiction, if a cop would leave someone handcuffed to something, he would radio in telling them he is leaving to purp for the moment, and to have the purp picked up.  So I thought that was acceptable, since I've seen it in other fiction, and no one complained about it, it seemed.

By getting rid of evidence, what I mean is, is that they are going to want to get rid of any DNA evidence that they were there at the location, they can, either by wiping the place down with bleach, or dousing it with gasoline to set on fire before they leave.

What if I just wrote it so the cop is staying with the guy who is cuffed, but he gets a glimpse of them carrying the woman out the back of the place from the distance all tied up, and sees her crying for help?  Would this be enough for the cop to stop them getting away with the woman, or would he realistically just let them get away with her, and stay with the handcuffed suspect?


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## Guard Dog (Sep 30, 2018)

If there was a potential for life or death, and if there was a felony progressing where he could see it - kidnapping in progress, for instance - then he'd shove the handcuffed suspect in the car, and tend to the kidnapping... If it were outside the residence, and in his sight.
( If the woman is not outside her home, how could you prove she was being abducted? )

But he would NOT go in the residence by himself, unless the criteria I mentioned further up were met.

I can't get more plain than that.

And by the way, it takes a good long while for someone to wipe a place clean of DNA. It's not a simple process. And if the cops are outside, and they're about to get caught, then they're either hole up and cause a hostage situation or stand-off, or they're gonna haul ass and try to get away. They aren't gonna stand around and think things over. I mean, hell, cops arriving are slow, but they ain't THAT slow.

As far as arson goes... then the cop can shoot 'em as they come out the door and try to escape. And it's doubtful they're gonna stay inside and roast, so... ( Police can shoot a fleeing felon, at least in my state.)

Best to just have the backup get there REAL FAST.  That'll be enough of a stretch of credibility and deviation from reality. ;-)



G.D.


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## ironpony (Sep 30, 2018)

Okay thanks.  However, the reason why the cop stops in the first place is that he sees someone being chased from the house by the masked men and he manages to arrest one of them.  There is a broken window from the person who broke out of the house and is being chased.  So you say how can the cop prove there is a kidnapping.  But wouldn't the cop think something criminal is going on, if someone were chased from the sight of a broken window? Wouldn't the cop perhaps shove the arrested suspect in his car, and then take a glance through the broken window to see what is going on?

As for shooting a fleeing felon, when I asked the police, they said they cannot shoot in this particular case, but the reason why he doesn't shoot is cause he doesn't want to hit the woman they are carrying as the put the woman into the car, as well.


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## Guard Dog (Sep 30, 2018)

The reason the cop told you they couldn't shoot is because as you describe it, there's no way to tell if it's kidnapping, of simple assault.  And the broken window may be indicative of either thing, so cannot be used as decisive evidence.

Also, didn't you say earlier that the perps dropped the woman on the ground, not that they were stuffing her in a car?



ironpony said:


> ....leaving with a tied up woman who they are carrying out. They drop the woman...



Yeah, thought so.

Look, you asked for answers concerning what a cop would do, and I've told you. I can't do any more than that.

It's just not as simple as a cop seeing a thing, then going off half-cocked because it makes a good story. It gets way too far outside the realm of the real or the possible... At least in THIS world.

If the cop has one perp in custody, and the woman runs out or is carried out to safety... the bad guys can always be rounded up later. No single L.E.O. is gonna ask for or try for more than that.

By the way, a live witness is always better than a dead one and plenty of evidence. So the smart thing for your kidnappers to do is cut her throat and scoot out the back door, leaving the cop to tend to the woman and their captured cohort while they get away.



G.D.


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## ironpony (Sep 30, 2018)

Oh okay.  Yes they drop the woman, and get away, as the cop tends to her.  However, the reason why they don't kill her, is cause the cop has already radioed ahead, and they know that.  So if police set up road blocks and and capture them, then they will be up for murder charges, and that is worse than their original crime, so they don't want that.

They don't get caught at road blocks later, and manage to escape, but they do not want to risk being up for murder, either.

So how about I write it so that they the cop stuffs the arrested suspect in his car, hears the woman screaming as he waits for back up, and then decides to stay outside the building as he waits.  He peaks around the corner and sees them carrying her towards the car, they put her in the car, and drive away.  He gets back in his car and goes after them.  They don't want the cop chasing after them so they stop and dump the woman out, then drive away, so he will tend to her and they can get away.  Plus she doesn't know enough about them to ID them since they wore masks and all.  At least they hope, without wanting to kill her, and risk being up on murder charges later.

Could that work?


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## Guard Dog (Sep 30, 2018)

Can't chase suspects with the handcuffed perp in the car. Sorry.

The cop would be able to get way with shooting up their getaway car before they got to it before he could chase 'em once they did, with a suspect already in custody.  And he'd probably get fired for shooting up the car.

The fellow in custody becomes both an asset and a liability very quickly, as you can see.

Also, once the people actually take the woman from the residence, they've already signed up for a long prison stint. So if they're spotted, they'll likely get shot if they resist arrest, and they'll be going to jail for a long time anyway.

...and they're very likely to run right into that backup that's still on the way, so see the above-description of what their most likely end is.

So their best bet is still to run, and try to scatter on foot, not run right past a cop to a car he can clearly see.

...a car which is also a liability due to tags, DNA, and any other evidence it might contain.

Sorry, but your criminals are dumber than the average. And your cop don't sound too bright either.

...just sayin'.


G.D.


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## ironpony (Sep 30, 2018)

Okay thanks.  What can I do to make the situation work, where the cop can go after them to save the woman, after already arresting one of them?  I don't mean to ask others to write it for me, but since all my ideas are incorrect, what would the correct one be then for better realism?

Like in real life, a cop has to watch a suspect he has arrested and cannot leave that suspect.  But there is a woman being carried away and loaded into a van, and he can see this while he waits.  What does he do then?  He knows that if he calls for back up and puts out a description it could take too long for back up to get there, and by then, maybe they will get away.  So what does he do then?

You said that if the cop can see the woman in danger, then he could tend to it.  But how is he suppose to tend to it, if he cannot leave the arrested suspect?  The cop character cares more about the hostage, then he does about the arrested suspect in this heat of the moment.  So since he cares more about her, what would he do?

Also you say their best bet is to run so the car doesn't get caught cause it too could have evidence.  But if they just leave the car at the scene, with the cop, then that is worse, cause then they have no chance of getting away with it.  So you say it is dumb of the to take the car, but why is it less dumb of them to leave the car?


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## Guard Dog (Oct 1, 2018)

Ironpony, your kidnappers were done the second the cop showed up. They aren't taking the woman anywhere if she's still in the house. Period. Their only chance is to cut their loses and get away, if possible.

The cop has, if he's a real cop, already notified dispatch where he is and what he's doing. He's also already called for backup once it was obvious there was a crime being committed by multiple perps. Period.

Their only hope of staying out of custody is to split up, run in opposite directions, and hope they don't get caught.

If they have any sense at all, the car is stolen, and basically as "clean" as possible. They really don't want back in it if the police are there and see it, since as it is, it _might_ set there for a while before it gets noticed. Unlikely, but possible, especially if there're other vehicles around, and the woman doesn't know for sure what they arrived in. A van, however, will stick out like a sore thumb.

If they bring the woman outside, then the cop can justify stopping them, since she and his patrol car are within his field of view and influence. That won't be possible if he enters the house... however, her screaming, still in the house, changes things, and the criminals probably know that, so won't let her scream. Even if they have to kill her to do it.

Remember, the penalty for kidnapping isn't that much less than murder, in many states, so location will make a difference here. 

Again, I can't help you more than this, and no, I'm not gonna write your story for you.

Most of it is common sense and knowing something about the laws and police procedures in the area this event is supposed to occur in. Also, if the cop is new... a rookie... he'd likely have a training officer there with him any way. So he should know what the hell he's doing if he's by himself.

By the way, with this one, I'm done here. You need to do some research somewhere other than here on the forums. You need to learn something about law, and police procedure, and I'm not qualified to do that in anything other than a very narrow capacity... that of how things are here, where I live and have worked.

And right now, what you're outlining sounds more like a bunch of 15 year-olds playing cops 'n robbers than anything that could remotely happen in the real world. And that's even with an unbelievable number of near-impossible coincidences and screw-ups by the cop, dispatch, and god himself.

And that's my honest assessment of it, and worth exactly what you've paid for it: Nothing.

Edit: I worked exactly ONE attempted kidnapping when I was a cop. When dispatch got the call from the victim, SIX of us were sent to respond, with others following as they could. And nobody dawdled around in getting there.


G.D.


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## ironpony (Oct 1, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Yes that's right, I wrote it so the car is stolen, or unmarked, so it cannot be traced back to them.

However, why would they leave the woman behind instead of taking her with?  If they take her with them, there is a small chance they can get away with her, in their car.  Where as if they leave her behind, there is a 100% chance the woman will be found.  So why are they leaving her behind when it's a sure thing, compared to a slight chance of being able to get away with her?

Plus I did all this police procedure research before and I wrote the scenarios based on what the police told me.  Accept for the part about him leaving the handcuffed man behind as he went to rescue the woman, I took artistic license there.

But if they absolutely must leave her behind, then I can write it like that.  However, the penalty for murder is still greater than kidnapping so they do not want to kill her at all, and that is there characters.


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