# Land of fruited plains



## Kevin (Nov 16, 2017)

[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]If you fly across[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]it's plain to see [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]that all the land 
is checkerboard - [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display]_[FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]This is mine , [/FONT]_[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]_and that is yours_- [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]a roaming land [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]is much abhorred, [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]while each of us[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Display][FONT=.SFUIDisplay-Semibold]clutch our hoard.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]


Sent from my iPhone


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## ned (Nov 16, 2017)

hello - nice observation here, punning plain from the plane.

knowing where the narrator is flying over would certainly help the imagery.

cheers......Ned


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## Kevin (Nov 16, 2017)

ned said:


> hello - nice observation here, punning plain from the plane.
> 
> knowing where the narrator is flying over would certainly help the imagery.
> 
> cheers......Ned


sorry ned...
 "fruited plains " is a reference to our sometimes-considered, alternate national anthem, _America, the beautiful._.. the lyrics of which were written by an Englishman as he surveyed our Great Plains from a mountaintop, or so the story goes. I can't say now, but at one time every school child was made to sing this early on. "...purple mountains majesty, across the fruited plain " - was the line which I always liked as kid, as it somehow didn't feel stuffy or martial.

do you think I should change it, I mean if used God save the queen  I still might get it. I'm not sure. 

If you fly
across it all...  Perhaps still not specific enough.


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## Nellie (Nov 16, 2017)

Kevin said:


> "fruited plains " is a reference to our sometimes-considered, alternate national anthem, _America, the beautiful._.. the lyrics of which were written by an Englishman as he surveyed our Great Plains from a mountaintop, or so the story goes. I can't say now, but at one time every school child was made to sing this early on. "...purple mountains majesty, across the fruited plain " - was the line which I always liked as kid, as it somehow didn't feel stuffy or martial.




That Englishman wrote the music, not the lyrics to "America, the Beautiful". Katherine Lee Bates wrote the lyrics on her way from Colorado Springs and it was originally entitled "Pikes Peak". The music composer was Samuel A. Ward.  Come to the Colorado Rockies and witness the "purple mountain majesty"! It is beautiful!


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## Kevin (Nov 16, 2017)

Thank you,  Nellie.


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## sas (Nov 16, 2017)

Please keep "fruited plains". I knew exactly what it referenced. I have always thought we should bury America's current national anthem (I haven't stood up for it since Sandy Hook) with it's love of bombs bursting in air, and replace it with "America, the Beautiful". I might return to standing. My son sees Pike's Peak from his deck. Awesome State. Awesome.


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## ned (Nov 16, 2017)

yes, keep the title - I like it, but I didn't know it referenced anything.

or else, 'Kansas Blandness'.....


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## Nellie (Nov 17, 2017)

sas said:


> Please keep "fruited plains". I knew exactly what it referenced. I have always thought we should bury America's current national anthem (I haven't stood up for it since Sandy Hook) with it's love of bombs bursting in air, and replace it with "America, the Beautiful". I might return to standing. My son sees Pike's Peak from his deck. Awesome State. Awesome.



I, too, know what "fruited plains" referenced. I don't think we should bury America's National Anthem just because of the current violent happenings in America. Look up what inspired Francis Scott Key to write the song (poem, first, he was a poet)........ it was because of the War of 1812...... America was winning..... he wanted to celebrate the bombs bursting in air..... now America uses this song



> *The Star-Spangled Banner*
> 
> _O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
> What so proudly we hail’d at the twilight’s last gleaming,
> ...


along with fireworks on the 4th of July- Independence Day!!

I, too live in the Awesome State of Colorado and can see Pikes Peak.


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## dannyboy (Nov 17, 2017)

liked this and just wondering "much abhorred" or "as abhorred"  as alternatives to "as much abhorred"


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## TL Murphy (Nov 18, 2017)

Kevin, I was just thinking along the same lines as dannyboy.  The word “abhor” is one of the strongest words we can use for dislike.  Our disgust can’t get much stronger than abhorrent.  So how does the word “much” make abhorred any stronger?  How can abhorrent be more abhorrent? The word “much” carries no meaning in this context.  It’s just filler.


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## Kevin (Nov 18, 2017)

Thank you Tl. I did not know that about abhorred. I could say that I was using 'more' to mean by many, but no.. I did mean it like greatly or very. Thank you

danny-I'm not sure understand the meaning of as much abhorred or as abhorred. I was trying I say that the idea of a free-roam law, 'a roaming land' like in Scotland or Finland is thought of (here) as very awful, the idea of allowing others on to what is yours even if it is passing through or crossing thousands of acres of undeveloped land. 'As much ' sounds like a comparison usage but perhaps I'm not understanding. the usage. Thank you. K


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## dannyboy (Nov 18, 2017)

TL explained it for me - I would use as abhorred but if you had to you could go with much abhorred but not "as much" to me these two words are trying to do the same thing and so just stumble over each other.


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## Kevin (Nov 18, 2017)

So... 'iis abhorred ' is the same meaning as greatly disliked (abhorred being the ultimate dislike) therefor 'much' is redundant and, I see now, if removed does not break the rhythm.


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## TL Murphy (Nov 18, 2017)

"Is abhorred" doesn't need to be qualified to include many people. It's a general statement.  It means everybody. And there is really no adverb that can make abhorrent more abhorrent. It's a superlative. The word "much" contributes absolutely nothing to the poem. It's removal doesn't damage the cadence at all. In a short poem like this it's important not to use any words that don't  carry their weight. The only way to qualify "abhor" would be to use an adverb that applied to the whole poem and not just to one word.


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## dannyboy (Nov 18, 2017)

agreed.


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## TL Murphy (Nov 19, 2017)

Kevin, other than that gripe about one word, I really like the poem. The imagery is great.  But it’s missing context.  In one of your comments you implied that this situation applies to  North America . It doesn’t apply to Scotland or Findland, yet in the poem, the speaker makes this statement about free roaming being abhorrent as if it’s a universal truth.  Well, it isn’t a universal truth.  It’s only a truth in certain context. So the poem comes across as overly didactic because the context is not defined. Context is everything and you can say anything in a poem as long as it is supported within the context of the poem.  But without context, the poem becomes rash and arguable.


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## Kevin (Nov 20, 2017)

TL- about universality just as a point, when it comes to people about all that is absolute is eat, drink, poop, sleep, wake, born, die. The rest is relative. I figure two places out of the entire rest of the west to be a small enough percentage of places to be equivalent to say ...cannibalism- it is abhorred. Even by some in places where it is practiced. Anyway, that's my thought on that. Didactic ... Preachy, maybe. Yes. Thank you. Thought provoking comments make me question things. I appreciate that. I am not saying I am absolutely correct. How can I?  Thanks K


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