# your lockdown newsflash



## escorial (Apr 10, 2020)

from the window I watched a neighbour mow his lawn...


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## Foxee (Apr 10, 2020)

When the neighbor got their USPS shipment it was the most excitement we had here for weeks.


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## Gumby (Apr 10, 2020)

We've been fairly normal here. We live in the woods so there isn't a lot of social stuff happening anyhow. My son called me from a nearby, larger city and said that things are almost normal at the local Sam's (like Costco) he said they had T.P. all the way to the ceiling and no longer limited the amount you could buy, so I'm hoping this lock down doesn't go on indefinitely.


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## PiP (Apr 10, 2020)

We are in total lockdown over easter. In our local area we can only leave the house to food shop, pharmacy and health. No walking, nada. We don't have any Corona cases here yet so the local Camara (council) are being really strict on the movement of people to keep us safe.

The highlight of my day: A friend has just delivered 12 fresh farm eggs and an organic cabbage.


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## dither (Apr 10, 2020)

escorial said:


> from the window I watched a neighbour mow his lawn...



Lol! Yeah, me too. Really.


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## dither (Apr 10, 2020)

PiP said:


> We are in total lockdown over easter. In our local area we can only leave the house to food shop, pharmacy and health. No walking, nada. We don't have any Corona cases here yet so the local Camara (council) are being really strict on the movement of people to keep us safe.



Good luck to you Pip. No cases, hope it stays that way.


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## escorial (Apr 10, 2020)

It's starting to rain


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## River Rose (Apr 10, 2020)

From my kitchen window tonight I saw the neighbor get 2 beers delivered to his house. I thought,hhhmmmm, after this is over I must have him over and show him how drinking is done.


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## Foxee (Apr 10, 2020)

Stop the presses! I made donuts.


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## escorial (Apr 11, 2020)

a Tesco van has just delivered shopping to a house further up the street.


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## PiP (Apr 11, 2020)

Foxee said:


> Stop the presses! I made donuts.



Where's the picture so we can all enjoy  Virtual calories are the best.


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## Ma'am (Apr 11, 2020)

I accidentally dropped an ice cube into my cat's water bowl and he ran right over and played with it for some time. It was noteworthy because he's really old and hardly does anything but sleep anymore. Now I have a new activity. Can't wait to do it again.


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## escorial (Apr 11, 2020)

my CD player has just stopped an as I tried to fix it I knocked my cafeteria over an cracked it..


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## bdcharles (Apr 11, 2020)

escorial said:


> my CD player has just stopped an as I tried to fix it I knocked my cafeteria over an cracked it..



Get you, all posh with your cafetière!


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## Foxee (Apr 11, 2020)

PiP said:


> Where's the picture so we can all enjoy  Virtual calories are the best.


I try to get pictures of my food crimes but they keep eating the evidence!


Ma'am said:


> I accidentally dropped an ice cube into my cat's water bowl and he ran right over and played with it for some time. It was noteworthy because he's really old and hardly does anything but sleep anymore. Now I have a new activity. Can't wait to do it again.


There's your new You Tube channel idea.


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## Ma'am (Apr 11, 2020)

I just dropped another ice cube into the cat's water bowl. Yowza!!!


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## Amnesiac (Apr 11, 2020)

My small household mammals are plumping up nicely. Another couple of days, and......... (consulting cookbook for recipes) For Easter supper, I've suggested Easter Bunny stew. (aka rabbit stew) The family looks at me like I'm some kind of monster.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 11, 2020)




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## Foxee (Apr 11, 2020)

Amnesiac said:


> View attachment 25688


That would be like trying to infect post-apocalyptic beef jerky.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 11, 2020)

Foxee said:


> That would be like trying to infect post-apocalyptic beef jerky.



Yeah.... I'm unafraid. LOL (Add in a raging caffeine addiction, and it pretty well sums it up!)


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## escorial (Apr 12, 2020)

made my bed an used the reversable pattern  quilt for a change


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## Foxee (Apr 12, 2020)

escorial said:


> made my bed an used the reversable pattern  quilt for a change


WHOA way to shake things up!


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## escorial (Apr 12, 2020)

started spitting outside so brought washing in


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## escorial (Apr 13, 2020)

When cleaning a dish a cat walked along the garage roofs and jumped down into a garden


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 13, 2020)

No's 8,7 and 15 are upper middleclass Sainsbury deliveries. No's 9, 13 and 14 are ordinary Tesco deliveries. 10 are up themselves with Ocado, 11 have let themselves down with Asda. Dunno what they make of us, the missus never had deliveries so she has been making the most of all the 'Money off first deliveries' offers and we have had one of each.


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## escorial (Apr 13, 2020)

beat the Joneses...8,7,15....my kind of people....so much classier than my Iceland delivery


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## Foxee (Apr 13, 2020)

escorial said:


> started spitting outside so brought washing in


That's some really rude weather.


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## escorial (Apr 13, 2020)

so many dif types of rain...my fav is dry rain


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## Foxee (Apr 13, 2020)

escorial said:


> so many dif types of rain...my fav is dry rain


That would be good for dry cleaning.


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 13, 2020)

Soft rain is fairly obvious, except where it is a common phrase the noun gets left off;  'It's soft out'.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 13, 2020)

Liquid sunlight!


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## Foxee (Apr 13, 2020)

Amnesiac said:


> Liquid sunlight!


Quick, bottle it and send it here for use during those stubbornly cloudy days.

And in the news here...the kitchen is a wreck! Oh...that's not news? I'm being told that's not news, it's more a constant of life now. More when an exciting story breaks.


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## escorial (Apr 14, 2020)

Deffo more dandelions growing in neighbours garden...


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 14, 2020)

First five potato plants have broken the surface, hoed the onions for the second time, getting a tilth.


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## PiP (Apr 14, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> First five potato plants have broken the surface, hoed the onions for the second time, getting a tilth.



How do you know when they are ready to harvest? I planted mine on 29th Jan in pots the size of small dustbins and the foliage is already going yellow and beginning to die down. I don't know the variety as I bought them from a toothless old farmer boy at the market. He did not understand my Portuguese and I did not understand his peasant Algarvian Portuguese.

The plants never flowered but I understand some varieties don't.


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 14, 2020)

I have no idea how your seasons correspond. If they are in pots I have heard of people sliding them half out of the pot and harvesting a few early new potatoes from around the edge before dropping them back in. The main problems with pots are the earth getting too hot and erratic watering, above ground loves the sunshine , but the roots like to be cool and damp, either problem might be cause of yellowing, or it might just be the plant getting old. You don't even know if they are maincrop or first earlies, your best bet is to have a look, failing that wait until they die down, the potatoes shouldn't come to any harm for being in the earth a little longer, that's their natural way of doing things.


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## Neetu (Apr 14, 2020)

I went for a walk, as I do on the warmer spring days, and heard a creak, creak, creak and the sound of a few people talking about the beer they had on different levels of their refrigerator - just voices in a backyard. It was dusk and the air fragrant with spring blossoms. As I approached the creak, creak, creak, a little closer, I knew it was a swing in someone's backyard, and saw a little boy swinging on it, with light falling on him from the open garage. Nothing else stirred and it was a bit creepy, like a horror movie, but other than that, a most peaceful and enjoyable walk!


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## Foxee (Apr 14, 2020)

THIS IS OFF THE LEASH! straight from the Neighbor's Yard...Brought to you by 3 Dog Reporters!

TODAY THE BOY WAS OUTSIDE!

He bounced the ball! and bounced it!! and he smelled so interesting!

We believe he had eaten hot dogs! We wanted hot dogs!!

THEN THE BALL CAME RIGHT UP TO THE FENCE!

TO! THE! FENCE!

And we sniffed it and it was SO INTERESTING!

And the boy got the ball and we wagged him, WAGGED because we are good, GOOD dogs!


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## escorial (Apr 14, 2020)

Woof woof wufity woof


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## PiP (Apr 15, 2020)

I only discovered late last night that yesterday was in fact Tuesday and not Wednesday. I feel foolish as I published the Wordless Wednesday photo to my blog on Tuesday.


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## escorial (Apr 15, 2020)

Bin wagon comes tomorrow so putting the bins out will be the highlight of my day


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## Neetu (Apr 15, 2020)

As long as your garbage is being hauled away, you're good.


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## escorial (Apr 15, 2020)

Years ago living with brothers my mum said the binman must think I'm an alcoholic when he empties my bin because we all put our empty beer cans in it..


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## Neetu (Apr 15, 2020)

At least beer bottles can be recycled..........


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## Amnesiac (Apr 15, 2020)




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## Neetu (Apr 15, 2020)

The local grocery stores are running low on supplies and not able to replenish staple items to meet the demand. My store has a line to enter (so not too many people can be inside the store at once) and there are six-foot apart arrows all over the floors, and you have to wait in a long line to pay for your stuff. The register employees serve only one customer at a time, and you can't be inside the aisle while the person before you is being checked out. Then he or she wipes off the entire length of the register with a disinfectant before you can place your items on it. No one seems to mind, which is refreshing to see in America.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 15, 2020)

Agreed. It IS nice, and no one's really been angry or bitchy about things, as far as I can tell.


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## Neetu (Apr 15, 2020)

Well, yes, so far so good! The hoarders did no one a favor when it all began so it's good to see everyone behaving themselves.


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## Foxee (Apr 15, 2020)

Amnesiac said:


> Agreed. It IS nice, and no one's really been angry or bitchy about things, as far as I can tell.


I'm keeping all that inside...I'm sure that'll go well.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 15, 2020)

_I am an inwardly seething volcano of throat-crushing, testicle-stomping, head-slamming aggression!!!! The aisles will _FLOW_ with the blood of mine enemies!! _"Yes, I would like paper instead of plastic, please."


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## Neetu (Apr 15, 2020)

So one of the grocery store guys and I had a chat while I was in one of the aisles. I know him from being a frequent and polite )) shopper so I asked him how people were responding to the lack of items. He went on a rant about a woman who came in looking for Heinz Ketchup and there were none left. But there were a good few of the store-brand. But she was adamant she wanted no other brand than Heinz and frustrated him with questions about the supply chain and when it would come because she would keep coming back in to check. He said he told her, "Ma'am, there is no one who can tell you when we will stock what! What's wrong with other brands of ketchup?" It's ketchup! Inwardly, he cursed her for being so spoilt and felt like saying, "Get used to it, lady, there isn't a choice these days! Learn to make do!".


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## Firemajic (Apr 15, 2020)

Amnesiac said:


> _I am an inwardly seething volcano of throat-crushing, testicle-stomping, head-slamming aggression!!!! The aisles will _FLOW_ with the blood of mine enemies!! _"Yes, I would like paper instead of plastic, please."




exactly... yes, I AM pissed because this covid19 is a HUGE inconvenience! Yes, I AM pissed, thank YOU very much, because my anxiety is in overdrive, I am madder than hell that my reality is alien, and terrifying... and that the people I love are in danger and could die... I am sick of looking out the window and everything LOOKS normal, but I am not allowed to leave my home, even if I wanted to... soooo yeah!!!! I DO want paper instead of %%#$@*&% plastic!!!!!  Okk, I am okkk lol....  now I feel better and tomorrow, I will opt for plastic....


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## Firemajic (Apr 15, 2020)

I am heartbroken... I just saw a news alert about The child abuse cases on the rise, and an 8 year old boy died today... the medical examiner stated that if the child had been in school, someone would have noticed his severe injuries, and would have intervened... possibly saving this child's life.... social distancing does NOT always save lives.....


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## dither (Apr 15, 2020)

Firemajic said:


> I am heartbroken... I just saw a news alert about The child abuse cases on the rise, and an 8 year old boy died today... the medical examiner stated that if the child had been in school, someone would have noticed his severe injuries, and would have intervened... possibly saving this child's life.... social distancing does NOT always save lives.....



Ohhhhhh dear. How awful is that?

World we're living in.


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## dither (Apr 15, 2020)

Firemajic said:


> exactly... yes, I AM pissed because this covid19 is a HUGE inconvenience! Yes, I AM pissed, thank YOU very much, because my anxiety is in overdrive, I am madder than hell that my reality is alien, and terrifying... and that the people I love are in danger and could die... I am sick of looking out the window and everything LOOKS normal, but I am not allowed to leave my home, even if I wanted to... soooo yeah!!!! I DO want paper instead of %%#$@*&% plastic!!!!!  Okk, I am okkk lol....  now I feel better and tomorrow, I will opt for plastic....



Hang in there Firemajic, you're not alone.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 15, 2020)

Firemajic said:


> I am heartbroken... I just saw a news alert about The child abuse cases on the rise, and an 8 year old boy died today... the medical examiner stated that if the child had been in school, someone would have noticed his severe injuries, and would have intervened... possibly saving this child's life.... social distancing does NOT always save lives.....



OMG... So very sad. I'm glad that I am an adult. My childhood and home life were... dangerous. I think if this happened while I was still a child, I might have ended up as a statistic. 

This hurts me so bad, and I can't even find the words for the heartbreak, the anger, the absolutely murderous rage that this inspires in me. When I was with the sheriff's department, I made it clear that I was not the one to handle child abuse cases. I could deal with and help the victim, and I was damn good at it, but the parents... I probably could have shot them in the face and never missed a wink of sleep over it.


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## Firemajic (Apr 15, 2020)

yeah, he was supposed to be sheltered against a disease that could possibly ... POSSIBLY kill him... the danger and ultimately death was on the OTHER side of the door... those of us who have survived childhood abuse know that the word "HOME" is terrifying....


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## Neetu (Apr 15, 2020)

That is very sad news, fire. As humans, we have limited capacity to DO SOMETHING about things like this, and maybe one day we will know better and say, "we should have and could have done this", but we aren't always in control. 
A good friend of mine lost his 36 year old daughter to this virus. She was an ER doctor doing her job, saving lives, with absolutely no pre-existing illnesses or conditions.

Did I tell you this already? Pardon me, if I’m repeating it!


I must be terribly cross-eyed! I mixed up my response here in this box, not the first time either! I must have read more than one comment above and responded to both in one. I don't know. Always screw up!


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## escorial (Apr 16, 2020)

I can remember the good old days when you could leave home for hours on end...happy days


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## Neetu (Apr 16, 2020)

Child abuse is the most vicious form of abuse there is. It comes in many forms, and so often, the young victims will do everything to cover up the abuse, especially if the abuser is a parent.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 16, 2020)

The act is the primary engine of destruction. Keeping the secret compounds the damage.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 16, 2020)

[video=youtube_share;8OyBtMPqpNY]https://youtu.be/8OyBtMPqpNY[/video]


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## Robbie (Apr 16, 2020)

True. They protect their abusers.


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## Neetu (Apr 17, 2020)

they're running out of beds
for the sick to lie
waiting for bailouts
while layering the dead, encased
in body bags, refrigerators piled
high with corpses
morgues brimming with eerie silence
of stacked bodies
the bailouts hang in the air
while politicians spin politics
with lives -- death is a number
you read in the newspaper


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## Ma'am (Apr 17, 2020)

We ordered groceries online, then went to pick them up. An employee loaded them into our car. When we got home, I found the items below included, which I did not order (but I wasn't charged for them, either). 

I called the store but in the meantime, SOMEBODY tore into the chips and the granola bars and unwrapped the twin pack of deodorant, too. So I told the store employee that I'd pay for the things we opened and bring the rest of the items back.

So I did. But after we got there, they said we could just keep the chips, granola bars and deodorant at no charge. Also, I didn't have to fix dinner, since we stuffed our faces with chips and granola bars. Score! What a wild Friday night! Rock 'n' roll!


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 18, 2020)

Doritos !!

Let firemajic know, she'll drive across the US for free Doritos


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## Irwin (Apr 18, 2020)

A man with a grey goatee, wearing an industrial baseball cap, lit a cigarette in the truck stopped across the street as he examined a piece of paper, and then drove off. He's not one of the lucky ones who gets to work from home during the pandemic.


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## Foxee (Apr 18, 2020)

My son just danced like a turkey.


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## Irwin (Apr 18, 2020)

Here's an interesting news story...



> The Trump administration has awarded bulk contracts to third-party vendors in recent weeks in a scramble to obtain N95 respirator masks, and the government has paid the companies more than $5 per unit, nearly eight times what it would have spent in January and February when U.S. intelligence agencies warned of a looming global pandemic, procurement records show.
> 
> The Federal Emergency Management Agency awarded a $55 million contract for N95s this month to Panthera Worldwide LLC, which is in the business of tactical training. One of its owners said last year that Panthera’s parent company had not had any employees since May 2018, according to sworn testimony.
> 
> ...


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## Neetu (Apr 18, 2020)

Nothing happened.


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## Ma'am (Apr 18, 2020)

Now here's some promising news. Serum therapy for Covid-19 is on the fast track, while we wait for the vaccine to be ready. 

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/04/08/arturo-casadevall-blood-sera-profile/


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 21, 2020)

Skip delivered next door but one. That seems a strange interpretation of 'Lockdown'.


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## Neetu (Apr 21, 2020)

In my world of COVID lockdown, i'm fighting grey bullies. For the past 4 days, my sole occupation is devising and creating baffles for my bird feeders to ward off the pesky squirrels. Trying to avoid a trip to Home Depot, I scrounge in my basement and garage for objects to fit on the hanging wire, with partial success. I certainly don't want to spend $20 or more on an online purchase of one! It's a pretty intense occupation, I assure you! Each time I see the bloody thing trying to access the feeder, I'm out the door with a stick! Sit or stand by the window 8 hours a day looking out -- quite involved, wouldn't you say?


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## Foxee (Apr 21, 2020)

One of my neighbors is hammering something. Incessantly. I am contemplating making some news myself...


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## Neetu (Apr 21, 2020)

News? or Noise? 



Foxee said:


> One of my neighbors is hammering something. Incessantly. I am contemplating making some news myself...


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 21, 2020)

Neetu.
I once made a bird table about three foot square. The squirrels could still make it up from the post until I put plastic guttering all round the edge to stop them getting a grip. It worked, but was horribly ugly.

Foxee
next door here spent several hours washing his patio inch by inch with a pressure washer the other day. I hadn't realised the 'pressure' bit had a double meaning.


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## Neetu (Apr 21, 2020)

What did you use for the plastic guttering, Olly? I read on a website that one can use empty plastic soda bottles to slip over the hanging wire to do just that - make the squirrels fall off when they try to climb down to the feeder. I just don't have soda bottles, though. Never consume soda! Maybe I'll ask one of my neighbors for some....


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## Amnesiac (Apr 21, 2020)

A cheap pellet-gun could provide endless hours of entertainment during lockdown. LOL


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## Ma'am (Apr 21, 2020)

It's best to remember you're staying in a small, crowded condo complex _before_ getting into a loud argument with your SO, regardless of how much he deserves it because he started it. Er, just a general public service announcement there, nothing personal. Nope. 8-[


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## Foxee (Apr 21, 2020)

Neetu said:


> one can use empty plastic soda bottles to slip over the hanging wire to do just that - make the squirrels fall off when they try to climb down to the feeder.


Will it work for the bears, too? 


> It's best to remember you're staying in a small, crowded condo complex _before getting into a loud argument with your SO
> _


The neighbors were probably taking notes. Cheap entertainment.


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## escorial (Apr 21, 2020)

about to shut my curtains


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## Amnesiac (Apr 21, 2020)

Last night, I think I slipped something into my drink and took advantage of myself. I.... I feel so... so... violated!


(Heh... I might do it again, tonight!)


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## escorial (Apr 21, 2020)

I can hardly read what you posted


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 21, 2020)

Neetu said:


> What did you use for the plastic guttering, Olly? I read on a website that one can use empty plastic soda bottles to slip over the hanging wire to do just that - make the squirrels fall off when they try to climb down to the feeder. I just don't have soda bottles, though. Never consume soda! Maybe I'll ask one of my neighbors for some....



It was just that, half round house gutter from a skip, handy for all sorts of things around the garden. To put over a hanging wire though I would go for tube. I don't know what is used in the US but I would go for two inch waste pipe, the sort of white pipe you get from the drain on the kitchen sink over here. I might be tempted to try three quarter inch copper pipe, they have sharp little claws, they might just get a purchase on the pipe. If the thing at the bottom had a big enough diameter I would use something bigger in diameter, rainwater down pipe is four inches, and harder plastic. 

Basically I would have a look through the junk in my shed and see what I had


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## Amnesiac (Apr 21, 2020)

escorial said:


> I can hardly read what you posted



I'm sorry.


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## escorial (Apr 21, 2020)

It's the hardest word


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## Neetu (Apr 21, 2020)

Yep, it could if I have any aim at all. Mostly, I don't. :highly_amused: Might end up back-firing.




Amnesiac said:


> A cheap pellet-gun could provide endless hours of entertainment during lockdown. LOL


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## Neetu (Apr 21, 2020)

Thanks, Olly, I get the picture. I might have to go to a hardware store for one of those tube-like pipes. But it might be worth it if I can't dig up something at home. I have a mask and gloves so it should be fairly safe to go.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 22, 2020)

escorial said:


> It's the hardest word




Have I annoyed you in some way? Maybe I'm simply not understanding your sense of humor/humour...


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## Ma'am (Apr 22, 2020)

Amnesiac said:


> Have I annoyed you in some way? Maybe I'm simply not understanding your sense of humor/humour...



"Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word" is a song by Elton John. That's what I thought he meant, if that helps.


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## Amnesiac (Apr 22, 2020)

Ah... Okay. Thanks.


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## escorial (Apr 23, 2020)

my waistline is increasing


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## Neetu (Apr 23, 2020)

Have a scratchy throat and can't get warm enough...quarantined! Don't look in case there's a cyber security breach and the virus travels...


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## Amnesiac (Apr 24, 2020)

I've got the _Quarantine Ten_ happening, although to be fair, I've managed to drop it down to a mere 4 lbs.


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## Neetu (Apr 24, 2020)

That counts as success!




Amnesiac said:


> I've got the _Quarantine Ten_ happening, although to be fair, I've managed to drop it down to a mere 4 lbs.


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## Foxee (Apr 28, 2020)

Someone in town was racing their car engine like they were determined to kill it. For something like ten minutes they just kept pegging the red line. I mean...I know we all get a little hard up for new things to do while in quarantine but seriously?


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 29, 2020)

It rained all day yesterday and I spent it all alternately reading and sleeping. Tell a lie, I watered a few things in the greenhouse as well for ten minutes.


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## Ma'am (May 3, 2020)

Oh, Texas. The state has "partially re-opened." In other words, the beach and Walmart were packed, with few seeming to bother with distance or masks. Why do I get the feeling this is not going to end well?


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## Irwin (May 3, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> Oh, Texas. The state has "partially re-opened." In other words, the beach and Walmart were packed, with few seeming to bother with distance or masks. Why do I get the feeling this is not going to end well?



Make sure to protect yourself. 

Most facemasks are not to protect the wearer but to protect other people, so they're being extremely selfish by not wearing them. I'm sure they feel really brave and patriotic, though.


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## Foxee (May 3, 2020)

Well. That bread did not turn out.


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## River Rose (May 4, 2020)

As I was mowing my lawn yesterday I enthusiastly waved to the neighbors. As we have not seen each other nor had contact for months.  
They squared down in their car as if my waving motion may infect them. 
Little do they know the only thing I am capable of is infecting them with my hybrid fertility. 
As a mother of 8,,,I would run from that more from Covid.


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## Olly Buckle (May 4, 2020)

River Rose said:


> my hybrid fertility.
> As a mother of 8,,,



Are you sure that is what you meant to say? Which other species have you been reproducing with?

BTW did you know that beluga whales and narwhales can hybridise? Most hybrids are plants, that such higher mammals manage it is wild! I wonder if the offspring are fertile?


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## River Rose (May 5, 2020)

Yes


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## River Rose (May 5, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> Are you sure that is what you meant to say? Which other species have you been reproducing with?
> 
> BTW did you know that beluga whales and narwhales can hybridise? Most hybrids are plants, that such higher mammals manage it is wild! I wonder if the offspring are fertile?


I am a hybrid species.


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## SueC (May 5, 2020)

Ok. So I can clearly see that the ONLY reason that we have been able to reduce anything, or level off, or whatever you call it, is because of these strict separation rules the states have insisted on. We have no medication, no injection, no anything else, just the restrictions. There's nothing else that has caused the numbers to go down, right? And yet, even knowing this - repeated every dang morning on the news - there are so many people out there who think - after weeks and weeks of isolation - that they can now gather en mass and it won't make things worse! I am not brilliant, but even I can figure out that if the ONLY reason things area slowing is because of masks, gloves and distance between folks, then ignoring those tools will only make it bad again. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? This is not a punishment! Ugh. 

This is from my hometown: Chicago over the weekend.


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## River Rose (May 5, 2020)

SueC said:


> Ok. So I can clearly see that the ONLY reason that we have been able to reduce anything, or level off, or whatever you call it, is because of these strict separation rules the states have insisted on. We have no medication, no injection, no anything else, just the restrictions. There's nothing else that has caused the numbers to go down, right? And yet, even knowing this - repeated every dang morning on the news - there are so many people out there who think - after weeks and weeks of isolation - that they can now gather en mass and it won't make things worse! I am not brilliant, but even I can figure out that if the ONLY reason things area slowing is because of masks, gloves and distance between folks, then ignoring those tools will only make it bad again. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? This is not a punishment! Ugh.
> 
> This is from my hometown: Chicago over the weekend.


I do understand what u are saying. I do believe the numbers went down due to social distancing. Not so much masks nor gloves. I live in a small town in the country and we did very much follow the rules. Only went out for supplies. Everything shut down. Kids at home. Under complete lockdown from others. It will b interesting as restrictions ease up and places slowly open back up what will happen. I think we are so use to being away from one another that I don’t see how we will begin to function as a community anytime soon.


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## Irwin (May 5, 2020)

SueC said:


> Ok. So I can clearly see that the ONLY reason that we have been able to reduce anything, or level off, or whatever you call it, is because of these strict separation rules the states have insisted on. We have no medication, no injection, no anything else, just the restrictions. There's nothing else that has caused the numbers to go down, right? And yet, even knowing this - repeated every dang morning on the news - there are so many people out there who think - after weeks and weeks of isolation - that they can now gather en mass and it won't make things worse! I am not brilliant, but even I can figure out that if the ONLY reason things area slowing is because of masks, gloves and distance between folks, then ignoring those tools will only make it bad again. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? This is not a punishment! Ugh.
> 
> This is from my hometown: Chicago over the weekend.



They're worried about their financial well being more than their physical well being. For the most part, the government bailed out salaried employees but left hourly employees out to dry. There are exceptions, but that's how it seems.


----------



## bdcharles (May 5, 2020)

SueC said:


> if the ONLY reason things area slowing is because of masks, gloves and distance between folks, then ignoring those tools will only make it bad again. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?



People understand; I honestly just don't think they care. I know of several people who are happy for covid to spread if it eliminates the infirm etc from the population.


----------



## Amnesiac (May 5, 2020)

What, like a post-natal eugenics program?


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 5, 2020)

What they don't understand is that it is not only 'the infirm etc.' who die, especially if they don't stick to the regime. Sometimes it is not even 'the infirm' who die, especially if they stick to the regime. Maybe we will be rid of a few of the morons, oops, well hush my mouth, I don't really wish anyone any harm.


----------



## Amnesiac (May 5, 2020)

Alien Commander: Give me one reason why I shouldn't vaporize the entire human race!

Me: Um... Ah...  Hrmmm....  Well, you know... You know, I'm probably not the person to ask.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 5, 2020)

The creosote I ordered arrived, well, not actually creosote, they don't do that anymore, but creosote substitute. I am fed up I can't get to see my mechanic mate, I usually mix it fifty-fifty with old sump oil, spins it out a bit, good for waterproofing, and kills almost everything.


----------



## Neetu (May 5, 2020)

The dog has a rash and no one knows why. Checked for fleas and larvae but couldn't detect any.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 6, 2020)

Come end of August early September our cat gets a terrible rash, vet reckons an allergy to harvest mites.

And BTW Neetu, yes, I am 'Steaming my head' twice a day, thanks for thinking of me.


----------



## Amnesiac (May 6, 2020)

Glad to hear it, Ollie. Feel better very soon, my friend.


----------



## dale (May 6, 2020)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMcDH80xiVw


----------



## dale (May 6, 2020)

Biro said:


> Anybody remember the film and tv series called Logans Run?
> 
> It was about a society where everybody (except for a select few) were terminated at the age of 30 something.



40, i think. i actually have a story i wrote published in an anthology with the author of logan's run. not that i knew him or ever talked to him. but i was rather proud of being on the same TOC with him.


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## Amnesiac (May 6, 2020)

I remember the book.

Neetu, I hope your puppy feels better soon. Sounds like an allergy, or some kind of dermatitis.

A steroid lotion, hydrocortisone cream, or maybe something like triple antibiotic might help. He may have a food sensitivity, or if you are bathing him, an allergy to the soap you're using. Good luck! It's often tricky to diagnose.


----------



## Neetu (May 6, 2020)

Thanks, Amnesiac. Yes, we finally got a vet to successfully examine him and it is a dermatitis caused by environmental allergens. Very severe because he scratches so vigorously that it has spread from his mucus membranes to his whole body and is infected. He is on antibiotics and antihistamines now. 




Amnesiac said:


> I remember the book.
> S
> Neetu, I hope your puppy feels better soon. Sounds like an allergy, or some kind of dermatitis.
> 
> A steroid lotion, hydrocortisone cream, or maybe something like triple antibiotic might help. He may have a food sensitivity, or if you are bathing him, an allergy to the soap you're using. Good luck! It's often tricky to diagnose.


----------



## Amnesiac (May 7, 2020)

Fantastic!! Glad he was diagnosed and on a treatment regimen. May his healing be swift and seamless.


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## Neetu (May 7, 2020)

Thank you! It will take some time, but I hope the poor pup doesn't feel so miserable soon. I feel terrible just looking at all the redness, scratches, and bleeding spots all over him. 



Amnesiac said:


> Fantastic!! Glad he was diagnosed and on a treatment regimen. May his healing be swift and seamless.


----------



## Amnesiac (May 7, 2020)

Poor puppers...


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## River Rose (May 7, 2020)

Tonight my niece finally came home from lockdown at her apartment where she has been held up w her and her roommate for nearly 2 months now. So my sister, mom, my kids and I decided to throw her a little welcome home get together. It was going to b fine as we would b on my sisters deck and we could keep our distances. 2 and 1/2 hrs into much laughter and storytelling my mom gets a phone call. It was the director at the hospital where she is a nurse. Informing her that one of her patients had tested positive for Covid today. 
Needless to say,,,the get together was over.


----------



## Amnesiac (May 8, 2020)

Sorry to hear it. Hopefully, transmission will be kept to a minimum.


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## RWK (May 8, 2020)

My wife and I haven't changed anything. I only know one person who is actually staying at home.


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## Neetu (May 8, 2020)

Oh dear, I’m sorry. Working in healthcare carries that risk, unfortunately. I hope the patient recovers soon and your mom wears enough protective gear.


----------



## dale (May 8, 2020)




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## Neetu (May 9, 2020)

Tried to rescue an injured squirrel...........


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## Olly Buckle (May 10, 2020)

Neetu said:


> Tried to rescue an injured squirrel...........


Careful, don't get bitten by one of those nasty, disease ridden, rodent, thieving, vermin. Best off putting it out of its misery hard and fast.


----------



## River Rose (May 11, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> Careful, don't get bitten by one of those nasty, disease ridden, rodent, thieving, vermin. Best off putting it out of its misery hard and fast.


Totally agree. I know and understand wanting to help an injured animal. Yet they are wild and bite when scared. They carry disease. U don’t want to end up sick from trying to help. Let nature take its coarse.


----------



## Neetu (May 11, 2020)

I know you and Olly are right. I just have a daughter whose heart breaks for animals and when she went for a run and came across a whimpering squirrel by the roadside, she couldn’t let it just lie there. We wore gloves to put him in a box, brought him to the garage and allowed nature to take its course. It died, of course. 




River Rose said:


> Totally agree. I know and understand wanting to help an injured animal. Yet they are wild and bite when scared. They carry disease. U don’t want to end up sick from trying to help. Let nature take its coarse.


----------



## Ma'am (May 11, 2020)

Timely discussion here, considering Covid-19 came from an animal. Also, MERS, SARS, bird flu, swine flu, AIDS, mad cow disease, etc. 

Hmm... I wonder if this pandemic will bring on a surge in the popularity of veganism.


----------



## Terry D (May 11, 2020)

Biro said:


> I take your point Maam but to clarify..........
> 
> Mad cow disease was a human invention.



Humans exacerbated the spread by feeding cattle materials which had been cross-contaminated by other sick cattle, but BSE is NOT a human creation.



> Aids well I remember one claim of humans having whoopee with apes but I have no idea if that was true.  But human and animal activity like that has gone on for thousands of years and I have never heard of a girl being raped by chicken.....yet.



This is a common notion, but not a realistic one. Research has shown that HIV most probably jumped species as the result of humans coming into contact with the blood of infected chimpanzees (the ape would have had SIV [simian immunodeficiency virus]) while eating the chimp. 



> Swine flu and Bird flu are from factory farming activities.



Correct.



> Mers and Sars I havent a clue.



MERS and SARS are coronaviruses similar to Covid and probably infected humans in the same manner.



> Covid-19 came from eating a bat alive or from a research lab?



As titillating as this sounds, there's no evidence to support it. Most researchers believe the coronavirus responsible for Covid-19 developed in bats, jumped to an intermediary, (possibly pangolins) and was transferred to humans. Simple contact with an infected animal would be enough to transfer the disease, no need to eat anything alive. It was definitely not created in a lab.


----------



## Terry D (May 11, 2020)

Biro said:


> Actually you are partly correct.  In the strive to force feed protein into cattle diets which they would never normally come into contact with.  They put animal byproducts into the feed of a purely vegetarian animal.  This was done purely for money and also not the fault of the farmers as some believed.  They just purchased what was supplied to them.  Cattle are solely grass and vegetation grazers and their digestive system is purpose for that diet.  They would never eat meat products ever.



The disease existed in cattle before the outbreak in the '80s. It was not a human invention.




> Apparently the common notion is out there if you look so I have heard.



The notion of a flat Earth is out there too if you look for it.


----------



## wannabe1 (May 11, 2020)

My wife and I recently moved out of New York City, just when things got really crazy. We moved to a retirement community in New Jersey. Naturally everything is closed down. We don't even go shopping for food. We go online and order then wait days to get a delivery time. We can't really meet any of our neighbors but, weather permitting, lots of people are out walking. Everyone is friendly - from a distance. The most fun I have is sitting on the front steps of my house and count how many people are wearing masks and not. Its been about 55 - 45. I guess you could call that fun?


----------



## Ma'am (May 11, 2020)

wannabe1 said:


> My wife and I recently moved out of New York City, just when things got really crazy. We moved to a retirement community in New Jersey. Naturally everything is closed down. We don't even go shopping for food. We go online and order then wait days to get a delivery time. We can't really meet any of our neighbors but, weather permitting, lots of people are out walking. Everyone is friendly - from a distance. The most fun I have is sitting on the front steps of my house and count how many people are wearing masks and not. Its been about 55 - 45. I guess you could call that fun?



And here I find myself jealous of all the excitement going on over there.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 11, 2020)

High winds blew the small window that was jammed open off the greenhouse, and this is the night there could be a frost. Got a piece of transparent plastic jammed in there as a temp. measure.


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## Foxee (May 11, 2020)

I'm eating salt & vinegar chips like nutrition is for other people.


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## River Rose (May 12, 2020)

I have just read that our states almighty governor has stated that he will b allowing non essential shoppe’s to open by months end and allow 5 ppl in the store at a time. Hot damn. I have been waiting patiently for our thrift store St. Vinnies to open since it closed. For a family this size that store IS essential. I will b the first in line. Let me at it. I have a list of sheit I need that is behind those locked doors.


----------



## dither (May 12, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> High winds blew the small window that was jammed open off the greenhouse, and this is the night there could be a frost. Got a piece of transparent plastic jammed in there as a temp. measure.



It really has been rough out there. When WILL it end?


----------



## Terry D (May 12, 2020)

Biro said:


> Didn't know that but then the disease went riot after we fed them contaminated animal products yes?   If so then whose fault is it that we caught it?



Yes, feeding cattle contaminated feed (laced with beef protein) did spread the disease. There were, however, very, very few cases where humans developed the human version of the disease (Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease) from eating contaminated beef. I found record of about 231 cases world-wide since 1996.


----------



## Neetu (May 12, 2020)

As long as humans and animals co-inhabit the planet, there will be diseases that we acquire from animals, either through involuntary and indirect or direct contact (such as Lyme's disease), or through our brazen and insatiable appetite for meat and other animal products leading to farming practices that violate and interfere with nature. And the fact remains that we need our animal and plant life to sustain our own. The more we treat our environment with respect, the better it will be for us. If more people chose to eat less meat and more of the vegetarian/vegan diet, without being extreme one way or another, I think it would be much better for all life on earth.



Ma'am said:


> Timely discussion here, considering Covid-19 came from an animal. Also, MERS, SARS, bird flu, swine flu, AIDS, mad cow disease, etc.
> 
> Hmm... I wonder if this pandemic will bring on a surge in the popularity of veganism.


----------



## Ma'am (May 12, 2020)

Neetu said:


> As long as humans and animals co-inhabit the planet, there will be diseases that we acquire from animals, either through involuntary and indirect or direct contact (such as Lyme's disease), or through our brazen and insatiable appetite for meat and other animal products leading to farming practices that violate and interfere with nature. And the fact remains that we need our animal and plant life to sustain our own. The more we treat our environment with respect, the better it will be for us.* If more people chose to eat less meat and more of the vegetarian/vegan diet, without being extreme one way or another, I think it would be much better for all life on earth*.



This is a good point. When I was growing up, we were taught that animal products were about the best thing you could eat. (I suspect there was some post-WWII snobbery hidden in there too, as I think meat used to be a lot more expensive in relation to most other whole foods than it is now, though I may be mistaken on that). Until recently, health and nutrition were topics that bored me,  but with a few years on and mounting health problems like high cholesterol, etc., those topics became more interesting to me. After learning more, I cut way back on animal products, among other things, because of it. My research veered into sort of accidentally learning how terrible raising cattle, in particular, is for the environment, the animal cruelty on commercial farms, etc., resulting in a slide into "near-veganism."

Maybe it's a process for most. But people can do a lot for their health, the environment, and animals with small changes, too. It doesn't have to be anywhere near all-or-nothing to be a sizeable improvement, all around.


----------



## Neetu (May 12, 2020)

Yes, Biro, I know exactly what you mean. The fact that there is so much more food available and relative prosperity, we behave like gluttons. We want more, we demand more, we grow fat and ill and still gorge ourselves. It's almost as if the only thing that will succeed in changing our habits will be lack of food! And I don't think that time is all that far away given how we're destroying the balance of nature. Pity that our children and grandchildren will face the brunt of our stupidity. 
I lived in England from the mid-eighties to early nineties. It still wasn't terrible. Food was more expensive than in some other countries, like America, and waste was not yet such a given. 




Biro said:


> Maybe not in America but in the UK I can remember poverty (normal life) in the 60's and early 70's.  We ate a lot of leftovers.  On Monday it would be Bubble&Squeak which was left over Sunday dinners fried.
> 
> Sunday tea time was sometimes just Bread & Dripping which was bread coated with the cold fat and juice from the roast meat.
> 
> ...


----------



## RWK (May 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> Not 16 ounce steaks.  That would feed a family in those days.



Do steaks come in smaller sizes?


----------



## RWK (May 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> Food used to be more expensive in the past and with good reason.  Meat which is the most expensive to produce was also very much more expensive than what it is now.
> 
> People always start shouting at and blaming the farmers about everything from destroying wildlife, chemicals, hormones and cruelty.  But the real problem is....... 'YOU'!
> 
> ...



Maybe in Ireland. I grew up in farming country, and my family is still heavily invested in farming and ranching. We didn't graze cattle as a primary feed in the 60s, much less today. The world population is seven, soon to be eight billion, and the amount of farming acreage is shrinking every year, while much more is losing efficiency. Organic products are fine for First World types (and about half the time it isn't organic, but let the buyer beware), but if you are going to feed even that portion of the world which can pay, you need modern chemicals. Especially since adding grain alcohol to fuel is a committed policy throughout the world. 

In the USA, any shift in diet away from meat would cause a national drop in employment, from ranchers to truckers to processing plants, so you can forget that happening. 

I just read that 80% of the plastic in the Pacific comes from three rivers in Asia. I haven't checked on that, but it sounds interesting. 

Myself, I thinking eating habits are an individual's own choice (an inalienable right in the USA), and I'm not inclined to care what others do in that regard.


----------



## River Rose (May 13, 2020)

I have decided to come up with a new reality show called,,” Lockdown Island”’.
Only “Non Essential” ppl need to apply.


----------



## Neetu (May 13, 2020)

Spot on, Biro. It's the demand that spurs the supply and our demand is triggered not just by sheer numbers and population growth (which is enormous, of course), but by reckless indifference to not just the health of the planet, but also our own health. Just because we demand endless supply of food at cheap prices, and farming can deliver using methods that do not promote sustainability, we don't think beyond our immediate gratification. 




Biro said:


> Food used to be more expensive in the past and with good reason.  Meat which is the most expensive to produce was also very much more expensive than what it is now.
> 
> People always start shouting at and blaming the farmers about everything from destroying wildlife, chemicals, hormones and cruelty.  But the real problem is....... 'YOU'!
> 
> ...


----------



## bdcharles (May 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> On Monday it would be Bubble&Squeak which was left over Sunday dinners fried.



Ah, bubble and squeak. Bubble and squeak is the way forward, if for no other reason than its awesome name. I've completely rediscovered B&S recently. Presumably covid-related, but also just sick of food going to waste, I've developed an artisanal variety called "Fiery Bubble and Raging Squeak Beast", which basically involves chucking paprika, pimenton and a ton of hot chilis into the mix whilst espousing the whole "eat out of the bin" ethos.


----------



## dither (May 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> Food used to be more expensive in the past and with good reason.  Meat which is the most expensive to produce was also very much more expensive than what it is now.
> 
> People always start shouting at and blaming the farmers about everything from destroying wildlife, chemicals, hormones and cruelty.  But the real problem is....... 'YOU'!
> 
> ...



Brilliant post Biro, well said and very well put imo.


----------



## Foxee (May 13, 2020)

In the Lockdown News today...I'm trying to get some outdoor things done and my neighbor is mowing. And mowing....and mowing. For the amount of mowing that he actually spends time doing, it really seems like he has a few acres rather than a small housing plan lot. I swear the man would mow all day and through the night if he could find a justification for it.

Next up: weedwhacking.

*sigh*


----------



## RWK (May 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> I didn't grow up in Ireland.  I grew up near Birmingham in the UK.



Same thing. I drive further to buy my favorite sausage.


----------



## RWK (May 13, 2020)

Biro said:


> Anyway RWK.  When is this virus finishing?  Not to long ago you just said it was the press having a field day and it should be over by the summer months.



It isn't summer yet. 

I really haven't been paying attention, though. It hasn't affected much around here. Occasionally you see someone wearing a mask in a store or restaurant. Oh, and gas dropped down to $1.39


----------



## Foxee (May 13, 2020)

RWK said:


> It isn't summer yet.
> 
> I really haven't been paying attention, though. It hasn't affected much around here. Occasionally you see someone wearing a mask in a store or restaurant. Oh, and gas dropped down to $1.39


Holy crow that's been crazy. I have a GMC Envoy that's not great on gas and has a pretty big tank. We went to the gas station affiliated with our grocery store so we got money off on gas with our card. Filling up the whole tank from almost empty was a little over...$8. Seriously, I couldn't believe it. It's not unusual to have to spend closer to $50 to do this.


----------



## RWK (May 13, 2020)

Foxee said:


> Holy crow that's been crazy. I have a GMC Envoy that's not great on gas and has a pretty big tank. We went to the gas station affiliated with our grocery store so we got money off on gas with our card. Filling up the whole tank from almost empty was a little over...$8. Seriously, I couldn't believe it. It's not unusual to have to spend closer to $50 to do this.



Yeah, my wife and I both drive Ford F150s, and it's eerie seeing the lower costs.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 14, 2020)

I noticed in the paper a little while ago Texas crude hit an all time low of *minus* four dollars a barrel. With nowhere left to store it they are paying people to take it away!


----------



## RWK (May 14, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> I noticed in the paper a little while ago Texas crude hit an all time low of *minus* four dollars a barrel. With nowhere left to store it they are paying people to take it away!




Yeah, it's bouncing back because the POTUS bought up a bunch for the national reserve, and things should be picking back up as the stay-at-home BS is dropped in those areas where it was actually observed. Still, there's a glut of winter fuel that has to be moved.


----------



## dither (May 14, 2020)

Foxee said:


> In the Lockdown News today...I'm trying to get some outdoor things done and my neighbor is mowing. And mowing....and mowing. For the amount of mowing that he actually spends time doing, it really seems like he has a few acres rather than a small housing plan lot. I swear the man would mow all day and through the night if he could find a justification for it.
> 
> Next up: weedwhacking.
> 
> *sigh*



Lol yeah, I got that here. It drives me crazy. I swear you could play snooker on that lawn.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 14, 2020)

Where we used to live there was a guy opposite with a huge garden and a tiny mower who would go on in summer until it got dark. Having got away from that the guy next door meticulously jetwashed his patio the other day, inch by inch for hours.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 14, 2020)

I am not sitting watching, I am out there creating a garden, with nice, quiet, hand tools. It has been really good lately, we are almost at the end of a close on the edge of the village, so next to no traffic noise even before lockdown, and since lockdown I think I have heard one high flying commercial jet. There is a helicopter training base not far away so we do get an occasional really heavy thump thump as one of those big twin rotor jobs goes over. But it's very occasional, mostly it is birdsong.

The drugs work fine, without my methotrexate and steroids I would be dead, as it is I am capable of a good imitation of normal. Can't touch alcohol, with the methotrexate it would mean liver failure, well, small glass of wine with Sunday dinner from time to time.


----------



## Moose.H (May 14, 2020)

The lock-down in South Africa has been brutal. Stage 5 meant rare forays to the shops and basically only food items and basics. No booze or cigarettes. The neighbour's son took up learning guitar and that got nasty. We couldn't even go around common property that includes a dam and a waterfall. Did I say no booze, yep. I was up early last week to see a pair of monkeys having sex on the bonnet of my car, depressing. We are now at level 4 where you can go out for a walk with your dog between 7am and 9am. You can't see the smiles because of masks but some ladies have nice eyes. The dogs were so happy. I am not sure of the legal wording, but a lot of people didn't have dogs.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 14, 2020)

Moose.H said:


> The lock-down in South Africa has been brutal. Stage 5 meant rare forays to the shops and basically only food items and basics. No booze or cigarettes. The neighbour's son took up learning guitar and that got nasty. We couldn't even go around common property that includes a dam and a waterfall. Did I say no booze, yep. I was up early last week to see a pair of monkeys having sex on the bonnet of my car, depressing. We are now at level 4 where you can go out for a walk with your dog between 7am and 9am. You can't see the smiles because of masks but some ladies have nice eyes. The dogs were so happy. I am not sure of the legal wording, but a lot of people didn't have dogs.



On the other hand you have not had the thousands of dead people we have. I know there are probably people who die in the townships who don't make it on to the official roll, but even so from the statistics I have seen you are coping very well. Wish we had a govt. with a bit of backbone who didn't dither and kowtow to the capitalists.


----------



## Ma'am (May 14, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> On the other hand you have not had the thousands of dead people we have. I know there are probably people who die in the townships who don't make it on to the official roll, but even so from the statistics I have seen you are coping very well. Wish we had a govt. with a bit of backbone who didn't dither and kowtow to the capitalists.



You are so right, Olly. Also, people sometimes forget this is far from over. I hear people say "But there aren't many cases where I live so why should we be restricted?" The answer is... because this is far from over and those measures are the _only_ thing slowing it down.


----------



## Ma'am (May 14, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> I am not sitting watching, I am out there creating a garden, with nice, quiet, hand tools...



I think this is the key right here. I am so much happier on the days I make myself stay busy, and with something more than just busy work, too. There's always something to do but it's easy to sink when you don't _have to_ get up and do things.


----------



## River Rose (May 14, 2020)

Moose.H said:


> The lock-down in South Africa has been brutal. Stage 5 meant rare forays to the shops and basically only food items and basics. No booze or cigarettes. The neighbour's son took up learning guitar and that got nasty. We couldn't even go around common property that includes a dam and a waterfall. Did I say no booze, yep. I was up early last week to see a pair of monkeys having sex on the bonnet of my car, depressing. We are now at level 4 where you can go out for a walk with your dog between 7am and 9am. You can't see the smiles because of masks but some ladies have nice eyes. The dogs were so happy. I am not sure of the legal wording, but a lot of people didn't have dogs.


This sounds brutal. We had it pretty easy I guess compared to this. I can’t imagine


----------



## Ma'am (May 14, 2020)

Pruno!
https://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/how-to-make-prison-wine-how-to-make-pruno


----------



## dither (May 14, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> I think this is the key right here. I am so much happier on the days I make myself stay busy, and with something more than just busy work, too. There's always something to do but it's easy to sink when you don't _have to_ get up and do things.



My problem is motivation, or rather, the lack of.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 14, 2020)

dither said:


> My problem is motivation, or rather, the lack of.



But that can't be a problem. If it were it would be oxymoronic, if it was a problem that would give you motive. I suspect it is a choice; maybe others see it as a problem, but for you it is how you are, so it is what you have chosen to be.


----------



## RWK (May 14, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> You are so right, Olly. Also, people sometimes forget this is far from over. I hear people say "But there aren't many cases where I live so why should we be restricted?" The answer is... because this is far from over and those measures are the _only_ thing slowing it down.



Are they?

Homeless people are not practicing any of these 'quarantine rules', as a group they have a high rate of immune system deficiencies and health issues, and yet they are not suffering very high numbers of deaths or hospitalizations.

Whereas the annual winter flu decimates them each year.

US deaths are concentrated in one state, and in fact one urban sprawl. 

Either numbers are being fudged to secure Federal funding, or this is the first pandemic in history to concentrate in one place.


----------



## Ma'am (May 14, 2020)

RWK said:


> Are they?
> 
> Homeless people are not practicing any of these 'quarantine rules', as a group they have a high rate of immune system deficiencies and health issues, and yet they are not suffering very high numbers of deaths or hospitalizations.
> 
> ...



None of the above is at all accurate.


----------



## RWK (May 14, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> None of the above is at all accurate.



Check the CDC sites. Look at deaths by state. New York leads the nation by a massive margin (25% of all claimed deaths) yet it has had less than 50 homeless deaths. Interesting fact: the Federal funds require a completed death certificate to claim Federal aid funding, but homeless people do not generate complete certificates. 

New York: 22,170 claimed.
California: larger population, denser urban concentration, vastly higher homeless rates: 2,934 deaths.

Interestingly, California standards for death certificates are enforced by stringent criminal penalties, as are most states. New York and New Jersey, the two top death reporters, have very lax standards for reporting of non-criminal causes.

I spent over thirty years as a police officer, a third of it as an administrator. Government statistics that are directly connected to funding can never be trusted, because they will always move in the direction of the money, like iron filings to a magnet.

We saw the same thing in the last two pandemics; the difference was a lack of media participation.


----------



## Ma'am (May 14, 2020)

dither said:


> My problem is motivation, or rather, the lack of.



Though I doubt those who still have to get up and do the nine-to-five bit would feel sorry for us lol, I too have a hard time getting motivated sometimes, a problem I never had at work since it would have just been weird not to get it all done. It's strange how sometimes the "luxuries" do you in the worst.


----------



## dither (May 15, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> But that can't be a problem. If it were it would be oxymoronic, if it was a problem that would give you motive. I suspect it is a choice; maybe others see it as a problem, but for you it is how you are, so it is what you have chosen to be.


I suppose you're right Mr.Buckle. Not a problem but a failing.


----------



## dither (May 15, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> Though I doubt those who still have to get up and do the nine-to-five bit would feel sorry for us lol, I too have a hard time getting motivated sometimes, a problem I never had at work since it would have just been weird not to get it all done. It's strange how sometimes the "luxuries" do you in the worst.



Ma'am, I worked a lotta years. We do it because it pays the bills and I didn't fancy the alternative. Everything else can go to the devil.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 15, 2020)

dither said:


> I suppose you're right Mr.Buckle. Not a problem but a failing.



I would still argue that it is only a failure from other's viewpoint. I think for you it works just fine


----------



## dither (May 15, 2020)

I get by.:|


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## River Rose (May 15, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> I would still argue that it is only a failure from other's viewpoint. I think for you it works just fine


----------



## dither (May 15, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> I would still argue that it is only a failure from other's viewpoint. I think for you it works just fine



Without wanting to over-think this. Why would anybody ( on the part of the "other" ) consider " what works for me " a failing?

Please, don't go there.


----------



## Moose.H (May 15, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> On the other hand you have not had the thousands of dead people we have. I know there are probably people who die in the townships who don't make it on to the official roll, but even so from the statistics I have seen you are coping very well. Wish we had a govt. with a bit of backbone who didn't dither and kowtow to the capitalists.


Well noted. A stunning first move, bold and successful. (the doubling rate was 2 days and it would have already been a train smash). Our mortality has been very-very low. Regrettably the numbers are steadfastly creeping up. Two day doubling has moved to two weeks but we still expect the first million cases by mid August and @20'000 deaths. The reality is the epidemic was going to happen in South Africa from a few weeks after it got into our nation. Such is the way of pandemics.

Our systems  will soon not  be likely to do more than triage and handle the worst cases. We have been in recession for years and this lock-down has imposed deep suffering among the poor. Many are starving. 14 million in informal or overcrowded townships are not quite starving yet. From week two we expected an exit plan and still, after week 7 precious little. We are unable to plan and my projects, now cancelled costing me two years income and jobs for some 2000. I am supporting an elderly parent and most of my friends are likewise situated. I consider myself lucky.

What was the problem was the lack of self protection that has now been hammered home. The situation needs to be reevaluated. A devil's choice.

Each country has a different problem and the problem morphs regularly. 

South Africa has a vastly reduced crime and death rates because the 57 murders happening daily and 30 car deaths off set the 215 Covid total deaths. Cold but realistic.


----------



## River Rose (May 15, 2020)

I feel like we are/were pawns in a game controlled by government. I never understood the value of human life until this. It makes me cry.
I mean,,I always knew the value of human life as I am a soul exchange. I died as a baby and was brought back to life. 
Yet always just kinda fluttered around I guess. 
When I take a big step back and look at this,,it shocks me who and what we are. 
I could get so into this as an Empath/feeler. 
Always knowing I don’t belong here. This is not my planet. Not my place. Not my people. We just don’t do this to each other. We don’t cripple each other. 
This makes me want to pack up my kids and I in an RV and drive into the wilderness and chuck everything in the *#>€ it bucket and call it a day. Live off the land by our rules. No one else’s. 
Deep breath. 
Reiki Self. 
Done w rant


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## River Rose (May 15, 2020)

Moose.H said:


> Well noted. A stunning first move, bold and successful. (the doubling rate was 2 days and it would have already been a train smash). Our mortality has been very-very low. Regrettably the numbers are steadfastly creeping up. Two day doubling has moved to two weeks but we still expect the first million cases by mid August and @20'000 deaths. The reality is the epidemic was going to happen in South Africa from a few weeks after it got into our nation. Such is the way of pandemics.
> Our systems  will soon not  be likely to do more than triage and handle the worst cases. We have been in recession for years and this lock-down has imposed deep suffering among the poor. Many are starving. 14 million in informal or overcrowded townships are not quite starving yet. From week two we expected an exit plan and still, after week 7 precious little. We are unable to plan and my projects, now cancelled costing me two years income and jobs for some 2000. I am supporting an elderly parent and most of my friends are likewise situated. I consider myself lucky.
> 
> What was the problem was the lack of self protection that has now been hammered home. The situation needs to be reevaluated. A devil's choice.
> ...


----------



## Amnesiac (May 15, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> Careful, don't get bitten by one of those nasty, disease ridden, rodent, thieving, vermin. Best off putting it out of its misery hard and fast.



Yes. Avoid being bitten by politicians.


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## Neetu (May 16, 2020)

Sticking to safe activities. Watching samaras fall and litter the deck. They do look pretty from certain angles when the maple leaves cast dancing shadows in the sunlight.


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## Gofa (May 16, 2020)

The things that are important stand out just a little more than usual 

living well is the best revenge  upon shitty times that visit your front yard 

the joy of a long deep breath


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## Olly Buckle (May 17, 2020)

Neetu said:


> Sticking to safe activities. Watching samaras fall and litter the deck. They do look pretty from certain angles when the maple leaves cast dancing shadows in the sunlight.



The number of unwanted sycamore trees I have removed from urban gardens. When the cities are deserted of humans to do that job they will be working on the foundations as the buddleia works into the joints in the upper parts of buildings, their leaves will block the drains and cover the tarmac, it won't take long before it is all green again.


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## Neetu (May 17, 2020)

“Bloody samaras”, huh?  
It’s true that nature will do what it does, especially when humans recede. My maple trees do this every spring and they have grown huge even with humans living right in front of them. The strong winds we get so blow them away eventually and fortunately, gutters have needed cleaning about every other year. I wouldn’t do without the trees, though! They’re beautiful! Large, small blessings.


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## River Rose (May 19, 2020)

My lockdown news flash is this...
After the much awaited reopening of our thrift store St. Vinnies the big day has finally arrived. I arrived, debit card in hand to see what the store had that I needed after 2 long months of locked doors. I kept my excitement to a minimum as I searched the isle’s for missing treasures I could just not live without. 
I always check back by the candle dept in hopes I might,,just might stumble upon a Mexican Mayan Aztec folk art called “Circle of Friends”.  I have been looking for this piece for a few years now as my kids broke the first one I found. I used it in my Reiki practice and have been missing it badly. This is something one does not buy new. Your guides will gift it to you. I was about to walk away when I looked up. Wholly crap. I swear I let out a scream when I saw it sitting there waiting for me. 
I took it down, thanked my guides and headed to the checkout w the biggest grin. So, that is my lockdown newsflash for the day!!!!!


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## dither (May 20, 2020)

I'm sorry Rose, guys, but...... What is it?:scratch:


----------



## Ma'am (May 20, 2020)

dither said:


> I'm sorry Rose, guys, but...... What is it?:scratch:



A candle holder, I think?


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## River Rose (May 20, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> A candle holder, I think?


Yes. It is. 
Yet,,I use it for burning stuff in it. 
Sage, Copal, Frankincense...that kind of stuff. This new one is smaller than my old one. That’s alright. I am not complaining.


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## Amnesiac (May 20, 2020)

I'd use it for burning the ground-up skulls of my enemies!!! Muahahahahaha!!!




(or maybe a candle or some incense, or something...)


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## Olly Buckle (May 20, 2020)

The sister in law's next door neighbours had the family round over the weekend, eight people!


----------



## Ma'am (May 20, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> The sister in law's next door neighbours had the family round over the weekend, eight people!



Oh, yeah. We are seeing all sorts of that around here, too. I wouldn't be surprised if it soon spikes again. 

I'm reading updates on "remdesivir" now. I keep hoping it will be enough where husband and I can get out more soon. Otherwise, I figure at least eight more months of near-isolation for us, until a vaccine comes out.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 20, 2020)

Eight months is fairly optimistic I thin, Ma'am. You have to think three stages, development, testing, production. They will probably skimp a bit on the testing under the circumstances, so long as they are sure it is preventing more deaths than it is causing ... The other two there are no shortcuts for, and it is quite a business making a vaccine and getting it into a vial, not many people have the capacity, and they are already quite busy. To demand an extra few hundred million doses internationally is really not going to work. I think there are only about three companies in the world doing it at the moment, one is American though.


----------



## RWK (May 21, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> The sister in law's next door neighbours had the family round over the weekend, eight people!



They opened the public swimming pools here this week. They would have done it last week, but were delayed by the installation of liners in a couple.


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## Olly Buckle (May 21, 2020)

RWK said:


> They opened the public swimming pools here this week. They would have done it last week, but were delayed by the installation of liners in a couple.


Yes, but you are from Texas, we know they are crazy there.


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## RWK (May 21, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> Yes, but you are from Texas, we know they are crazy there.



:-D


We also haven't had a single new case in our area in weeks, and the few we have had all trace back to a common point. Very little actually shut down, and all have long since reopened.

The only hardship remaining is that the 24/7 stores have not yet gone back to full operation. Hopefully that will end soon.


----------



## Ma'am (May 21, 2020)

RWK said:


> :-D
> 
> 
> We also haven't had a single new case in our area in weeks, and the few we have had all trace back to a common point. Very little actually shut down, and all have long since reopened.
> ...



Yes, but unless your area was somehow able to strictly ban entry from anywhere else, all that really means is that your area doesn't have any new cases _that have been reported _and/or _at the moment._ 

All it would take is for one person to come in and infect others, who would then spread it to their family members and associates and etc. before anyone even knew they had it. Living in a more remote area might help a little bit but that's it. It's been in your area before and likely will be again.

This is far from over and it is everywhere and continuing to spread, very contagious, and deadly to those who are older or in compromised health. It is also _new_, so we don't have natural immunity yet. I just hope you don't find out the hard way, especially since you seem to be of retirement age. Best wishes.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

https://www.google.com/search?q=tex...9j0l5j69i60.6735j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html


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## VRanger (May 21, 2020)

Aluminum is getting in short supply, I learned today, and all our favorite soft drinks were missing from the shelves. Canned beer and soft drinks are the next hand sanitizer and TP.

You heard it here first.


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## Irwin (May 21, 2020)

Two people came to the door today--neither was wearing a facemask. What the hell is wrong with people?


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## Ma'am (May 21, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Two people came to the door today--neither was wearing a facemask. What the hell is wrong with people?



Ugh, that is all over the place here. I think a lot of people are honestly confused from the mixed messages they've been getting. It's like they think all or nothing are the only two choices. We could more safely start re-opening and get people able to go back to work and everyone happier if people would just follow procedures for safety, like wearing the masks. Otherwise, it's probably just going to spike again...


----------



## Irwin (May 21, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> Ugh, that is all over the place here. I think a lot of people are honestly confused from the mixed messages they've been getting. It's like they think all or nothing are the only two choices. We could more safely start re-opening and get people able to go back to work and everyone happier if people would just follow procedures for safety, like wearing the masks. Otherwise, it's probably just going to spike again...



There's probably not a whole lot of "thinking" going on with these people. They're just following blindly.


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 21, 2020)

I see people carrying banners saying 'My health, my choice'. It isn't though is it? If they catch it because they chose to take the risk it may or may not be serious, but they will also be a source of infection to others. That means they may well be the cause of other people's deaths, it is not just their choice, it is a social responsibility. I think partly the reason is that people think it is 'Just a variation of flu'. If it were smallpox, anthrax, or bubonic plague they might take it more seriously, but the difference is only a matter of what percentage die, and it is high enough to be real. 

the office of national statistics released figures for early April recently. The government said something along the lines of thirty thousand had died, the statistics showed something like sixty thousand more than in the same period over the last three years.


----------



## Ma'am (May 21, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> I see people carrying banners saying 'My health, my choice'.



That's a special kind of stupid.


----------



## RWK (May 21, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> Yes, but unless your area was somehow able to strictly ban entry from anywhere else, all that really means is that your area doesn't have any new cases _that have been reported _and/or _at the moment._
> 
> All it would take is for one person to come in and infect others, who would then spread it to their family members and associates and etc. before anyone even knew they had it. Living in a more remote area might help a little bit but that's it. It's been in your area before and likely will be again.
> 
> ...



Its the flu, not the Black Death. It's not the end of the world. Its a real danger, like any flu, to people with compromised immune systems and respiratory illnesses, but that's about it.

I don't live in a 'remote area'. 

You can't hide from a virus; it'll be around until the bulk of the population has been exposed, and none of the practices currently in use will significantly alter the transmission rate. I spent the last ten years of my career in emergency management, including extensive training in pandemics and bio-terrorism. There's a good reason they didn't bother with this stuff in the last two recent pandemics: it doesn't work.

Even at the height of the hysteria, no more than 35% of the population was 'self-quarantined', which is itself an oxymoron. 

All that's being accomplished is savage damage to the economy, and radical deepening of the national debt.


----------



## Ma'am (May 21, 2020)

RWK said:


> Its the flu, not the Black Death. It's not the end of the world. Its a real danger, like any flu, to people with compromised immune systems and respiratory illnesses, but that's about it.
> 
> I don't live in a 'remote area'.
> 
> ...



Um, no. You are obviously not paying attention to the highly respected links I posted, from Johns Hopkins, the CDC, etc. The science is very clear. It is not merely "the flu" nor is handling it with the seriousness it warrants "hysteria." I don't know what else to say to you in light of that so, again, I'll just hope that you are lucky enough not to contract it anyway.


----------



## RWK (May 21, 2020)

Irwin said:


> There's probably not a whole lot of "thinking" going on with these people. They're just following blindly.



You mean like thinking cloth masks will protect you from an airborne virus? :adoration:

What they do is increase an uninfected person's vulnerability. They would reduce an infected subject's ability to spread the virus, if made, worn, and maintained properly, but I've yet to see one outside a medical facility worn correctly. Not that you see many around here. In the last week I've seen one guy wearing a dust mask, and another guy wearing gardening gloves, a homemade mask, and his flannel PJs (in a store). I'm not sure if he was a hipster being ironic, or not. 

People are holding 'virus parties', like back when I was a kid and your parents would send you to play with a local kid who had chicken pox: get it when you're ready to deal with it. Over 90% require only OTC medication to deal with it, with about 5-6% requiring prescription meds. In the US, the death rate is 0.0025% assuming that the numbers aren't being padded in NY,NJ, and Illinois (where there is no criminal penalty for false cause of death in non-criminal cases, and their reported rates are strangely out of sync) to secure more Federal emergency funds, which pay by body count.


----------



## Ma'am (May 21, 2020)

RWK said:


> You mean like thinking cloth masks will protect you from an airborne virus? :adoration:
> 
> What they do is increase an uninfected person's vulnerability. They would reduce an infected subject's ability to spread the virus, if made, worn, and maintained properly, but I've yet to see one outside a medical facility worn correctly. Not that you see many around here. In the last week I've seen one guy wearing a dust mask, and another guy wearing gardening gloves, a homemade mask, and his flannel PJs (in a store). I'm not sure if he was a hipster being ironic, or not.
> 
> People are holding 'virus parties', like back when I was a kid and your parents would send you to play with a local kid who had chicken pox: get it when you're ready to deal with it. Over 90% require only OTC medication to deal with it, with about 5-6% requiring prescription meds. In the US, the death rate is 0.0025% assuming that the numbers aren't being padded in NY,NJ, and Illinois (where there is no criminal penalty for false cause of death in non-criminal cases, and their reported rates are strangely out of sync) to secure more Federal emergency funds, which pay by body count.



Your statements are incorrect.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/cloth-face-coverings-information.pdf


----------



## RWK (May 21, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> Um, no. You are obviously not paying attention to the highly respected links I posted, from Johns Hopkins, the CDC, etc. The science is very clear. It is not merely "the flu" nor is handling it with the seriousness it warrants "hysteria." I don't know what else to say to you in light of that so, again, I'll just hope that you are lucky enough not to contract it anyway.



You didn't post 'highly respected' links, just Net material. I spent my entire career in government service, and I know exactly how data is presented through those sources. 

This is my third global pandemic (as it is everyone over 30). It is a flu virus. 

I'm pretty sure I've already had it, I just haven't bothered to get tested. It's the flu: nine out of ten people will be sick, have trouble shaking the cough, and then get well. And thereafter be immune. That's how viruses work. Every year we get two or three strains of 'winter flu' which will kill around 12,000 people and infect a majority of the population, and then dies out when warm weather comes. This is the same basic principle, except that its stronger and world-wide.

There's no advantage in costing people jobs, or bankrupting the economy. 

If you want 'respected data', do what the professionals do: watch the homeless population, and the money. They live in poor conditions, have an incredibly high proportion of compromised health systems, and so forth. California, with the highest population of Homeless (and ordinary population) has reported less than 3000 deaths state-wide.

New York, with a smaller population, has claimed Federal funds for a body count of 40,000. But less than 100 homeless deaths. Why? Because the Feds don't pay for incomplete death certificates, and homeless people generally do not generate complete death certificates.

New York claims 50% of the claimed US deaths. Either the virus is targeting people from NY, NJ, and Ill specifically (particularly non-homeless natives of those states), or there's fudging of the numbers.

If we say that those three states have double the number of deaths per capita than California (unlikely in a fully-bloomed virus, but let's be kind), Corona drops down to winder flu levels.

If homeless people aren't your thing, you can examine the prison populations, another excellent test population because of their living conditions and compromised health issues, and most of all their death documentation can't be fudged without criminal penalties.

But I'll leave that bit of digging to you.


----------



## RWK (May 21, 2020)

Ma'am said:


> Your statements are incorrect.
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/cloth-face-coverings-information.pdf



Nope. Like I said, I received hundreds of hours of classroom and hands-on training, as well as dealing with chemical and biological incidents.

One of the key issues of dealing with a viral outbreak or bio-war incident is to manage fears. To that end, emphasis the threat, but provide safety/counter-measure information, whether accurate or not. So long as people believe that measure X or Y works, you will prevent the sort of panic that causes the real damage (and upsets politicians, who will come back on you during the budget process. Always follow the money).

Don't forget, the Surgeon General, during the initial reporting of Corona, slipped up and told the truth about the masks, only to retract after the CDC hit the roof.

Masks are counter-productive as a safety method, but telling the worriers that they will protect them will help still the waters.

We do the same thing with crime, vehicle safety, and anything else that will cause politicians and agency heads to look bad.


----------



## Ma'am (May 21, 2020)

Nevermind.


----------



## velo (May 21, 2020)

Let's all calm down a bit.  There is a lot of information out there and much of it is conflicting.  We live in an age of red herrings and cognitive dissonance.  The only thing I'll wager on is that no one person is entirely correct.  

I suggest everyone go read some actual science and then come back to the table.  Peer-reviewed studies and scientific consensus are about as close to actual information as you are going to get.  And even that is suspect depending on who paid for the research.  



			
				RWK said:
			
		

> If homeless people aren't your thing, you can examine the prison  populations, another excellent test population because of their living  conditions and compromised health issues, and most of all their death  documentation can't be fudged without criminal penalties.



Epstein, bro.  Epstein.


----------



## Irwin (May 21, 2020)

Some guy just came to the door, not wearing a facemask, and trying to sell something. I told him off through the window and told him not to go to anybody's door without wearing a facemask.

I'm getting old.


----------



## RWK (May 21, 2020)

Irwin said:


> Some guy just came to the door, not wearing a facemask, and trying to sell something. I told him off through the window and told him not to go to anybody's door without wearing a facemask.
> 
> I'm getting old.



I hope you remembered to tell them to stay off your lawn, too! ;-)


----------



## RWK (May 22, 2020)

Biro said:


> RWK...........  Lets just say you are correct regards disease being no more than a flu.
> 
> But why have young fit people with no underlying health problems died from this?
> 
> ...



Winter flu kills young, healthy people every year. However, the vast majority are people with comprised systems. In the last 30 days both a newborn infant and a 98 year old woman contracted and recovered from Corona without needing a hospial stay; the baby was only diagnosed after the fact.

It dies off in HOT weather, 90F+. I've never checked why. The key is 'dies off': ie, over time. In a third world country, it will still take a lot with it, but then, flu always kills more in third world countries.

The politicians (for the most part) have to appear to be doing something. I can't speak for other countries, but in the USA both parties are accusing each other of mishandling and lost jobs. In Penn, the governor is facing a possible impeachment hearing over his hard-line stand on quarantine. There have been mass demonstrations against the closing of businesses, even armed demonstrations in at least one state. As popular opinion goes, so goes the government. When the media got everyone stirred up, the politicians took action. As the mood changes, they un-do the actions.

They are. In the USA there is considerable debate, reaching the highest levels, about the use of a cheap, simple anti-malaria drug instead the $1000 a dose drug being pushed by the media.

In the USA, the government actions are straight out of the NES and FEMA textbooks I still have: if at all possible you downplay. Failing that, you concede the problem but always assure the people that they are safe if they follow A, B, C. Whether A, B, C work is immaterial: the key element in a crisis situation is to keep people calm. The government's plan is always simple: minimize the death toll. But to do that, you must first accept that there will be a death toll. It's triage: you don't go around telling people: you're done for, so we're just going to pump you full of painkillers and treat those who may still be saved. No, they tell them "You're going to be OK, we're going to get you into surgery soon...."

This pandemic, unlike the others recently, has been hyped hard by the media, who have had a rough few years lately, and it is paying of for them. Then the Feds screwed up and paid per corpse, and in states with lax death certificate statutes, they're busy grabbing all the Federal funds they can by calling every corpse with a full certificate a Corona victim.

The key to a pandemic is simple: herd immunity. When the majority of the population has anti-bodies in their systems, the infection rates decline. Combine that with hot weather, and the virus will pass. 

But first, people need to get the disease, so they develop the anti-bodies.


----------



## Phil Istine (May 22, 2020)

RWK said:


> You mean like thinking cloth masks will protect you from an airborne virus? :adoration:
> 
> What they do is increase an uninfected person's vulnerability. They would reduce an infected subject's ability to spread the virus, if made, worn, and maintained properly, but I've yet to see one outside a medical facility worn correctly. Not that you see many around here. In the last week I've seen one guy wearing a dust mask, and another guy wearing gardening gloves, a homemade mask, and his flannel PJs (in a store). I'm not sure if he was a hipster being ironic, or not.
> 
> People are holding 'virus parties', like back when I was a kid and your parents would send you to play with a local kid who had chicken pox: get it when you're ready to deal with it. Over 90% require only OTC medication to deal with it, with about 5-6% requiring prescription meds. In the US, the death rate is 0.0025% assuming that the numbers aren't being padded in NY,NJ, and Illinois (where there is no criminal penalty for false cause of death in non-criminal cases, and their reported rates are strangely out of sync) to secure more Federal emergency funds, which pay by body count.



To be clear, I'm writing this as a member - not with my mod hat on.  It seems you are obtaining information from different sources from me.

My information is as follows (I'm in the UK):  You are right to say that cloth masks give only limited protection and that they do help in  preventing the wearer from spreading the virus to others.  They could increase a  wearer's vulnerability, but only if the wearer regards the mask as a fail-safe  device that makes it unnecessary to take other precautions, so you may have a point in saying that they can increase the problem, but only if the wearer stops taking other precautions due to a falsely-enhanced sense of security.

I realise the mention of virus parties feels anathema to many, but I don't see you advocating them - merely reporting on their existence.

As far as likening the virus to flu, I would seriously question that.  With this coronavirus, unlike flu, there is not yet any herd immunity.  It's why it's called a "novel" virus - it's not a reference to it being a story but a reference to its newness.  Although it's difficult to tell exactly, due to the wide variation in testing regimes, the infection rate is far higher than flu.  The death rate would also be far higher if left unchecked.  Before measures were taken, once the virus had taken hold and given people time to start dying in numbers, the death rate was doubling every 3-4 days.  That might be a little less in the USA (apart from packed cities) due to more land per person.

Your figure of 0.0025% death rate seems way off as that indicates 1 in 40,000.  It's not clear if you are referring to percentage of population or percentage of those infected.
For  reference, the UK population is about 67million.  0.0025% of that is  1675.  There have actually been about 35,000-45,000 deaths due to  coronavirus, depending which reports you believe.  It's reasonable to assume that, apart from densely populated cities, the rate would be a bit lower in the USA due to the greater landmass per citizen, but most people tend to live in communities of some type so I wouldn't imagine it being a _lot_ lower.

You seem to have mixed correct information with partially correct information and plain wrong information, but part of that might be about accidentally tacking on a couple of zeroes.

Like you, I can only rely on my news sources.  As far as television goes, they are generally regarded as more reliable in the UK - though clearly imperfect.  However, we don't have outliers like Fox News.  Paper media are handled differently as, unlike the BBC TV news, they don't have a legal obligation to be politically neutral.  Some would question the BBC's political neutrality, but as complaints from left and right are about equal, it's reasonable to feel they have it about right.  The USA seems to have politicised the virus to a far greater extent than other nations who, in the main, regard the political arguments as something to be saved for how we recover economically.  I see social reforms on the horizon and wouldn't be surprised for the pandemic to accelerate the cause of a universal basic income of sorts, especially when considering the advance of computerisation.


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## RWK (May 22, 2020)

Biro said:


> I do not doubt what you say except for a couple of points.
> 
> 90 degree countries are not all third world countries and in those wealthy hot places they are still dropping like flies.  Australia known for it's snow and ice adopted the lock down procedure.  So if just flu.  Why?
> 
> ...



I told you, I don't know why. I'm drawing that straight out of the handbook.

It's not irrelevant to people who live on their paychecks, or to business owners, or to politicians who need votes. If you are going to look at the pandemic as a whole, money and politics will have far more impact than medical technology, at least in the USA.

True, but Corona is one of the one-shot diseases.


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## RWK (May 22, 2020)

Phil Istine said:


> To be clear, I'm writing this as a member - not with my mod hat on.  It seems you are obtaining information from different sources from me.
> 
> My information is as follows (I'm in the UK):  You are right to say that cloth masks give only limited protection and that they do help in  preventing the wearer from spreading the virus to others.  They could increase a  wearer's vulnerability, but only if the wearer regards the mask as a fail-safe  device that makes it unnecessary to take other precautions, so you may have a point in saying that they can increase the problem, but only if the wearer stops taking other precautions due to a falsely-enhanced sense of security.



Masks work if they are made of treated material that either do not absorb moisture, or are impregnated with substances that kill virus material; if they are tied very tightly, and the wearer tries to breath through their nose as much as possible. . What most people I see on TV are wearing are soft cotton masks tied on loosely. The virus is most commonly spread by particulate moisture cast forth by coughing; if it settles on the cotton mask, for example, there is a chance that the wearer will breath in in on later breaths, in effect giving viral material a 'second try' that a person without a mask would not suffer. The one use of a mask is for infected subjects: they tend to vastly reduce the distance and quantity of vial material discharged.  




Phil Istine said:


> As far as likening the virus to flu, I would seriously question that.  With this coronavirus, unlike flu, there is not yet any herd immunity.  It's why it's called a "novel" virus - it's not a reference to it being a story but a reference to its newness.  Although it's difficult to tell exactly, due to the wide variation in testing regimes, the infection rate is far higher than flu.  The death rate would also be far higher if left unchecked.  Before measures were taken, once the virus had taken hold and given people time to start dying in numbers, the death rate was doubling every 3-4 days.  That might be a little less in the USA (apart from packed cities) due to more land per person.
> 
> Your figure of 0.0025% death rate seems way off as that indicates 1 in 40,000.  It's not clear if you are referring to percentage of population or percentage of those infected.
> For  reference, the UK population is about 67million.  0.0025% of that is  1675.  There have actually been about 35,000-45,000 deaths due to  coronavirus, depending which reports you believe.  It's reasonable to assume that, apart from densely populated cities, the rate would be a bit lower in the USA due to the greater landmass per citizen, but most people tend to live in communities of some type so I wouldn't imagine it being a _lot_ lower.
> ...



I refer to it as a flu because its transmission, core symptoms, and the like are very common to influenza. I can only speak for the USA. The numbers given in the USA paint a very interesting picture. Florida, with our greatest population of elderly, and high urban density, has had just over 2000 deaths so far.

California, with the largest state population , largest homeless population, and heavy urban density, has had just under 3000 deaths. 

New York reports 22,000, 11 times that of Florida, and 7 times that of California. New York City claims 15,000 of that; a population of eight million claiming 7 times that of the state of Florida, and 5 times that of the state of California (12 times that of the state of Texas). New Jersey and Illinois likewise outstrip states with larger populations. You can make an argument that NYC might have gotten a head start, but it won't support the scale of difference. Unless you follow the money, and see that all three exaggerated states do not apply criminal punishments to death certificates involving non-criminal deaths.

Using statistics to generate Federal or state matching funds is nothing new to me; I saw that done throughout my career, both by law enforcement and civil agencies. Usually the Feds are smarter than paying by a single denominator; the state of Texas certainly is. 

In summation: I believe that the 40% of corona deaths in the USA that have been reported by four states are extremely inflated. If you apply the ratios of deaths to population experienced by 46 states to those four, the situation in the USA is far different than the media lets on. 



Phil Istine said:


> Like you, I can only rely on my news sources.  As far as television goes, they are generally regarded as more reliable in the UK - though clearly imperfect.  However, we don't have outliers like Fox News.  Paper media are handled differently as, unlike the BBC TV news, they don't have a legal obligation to be politically neutral.  Some would question the BBC's political neutrality, but as complaints from left and right are about equal, it's reasonable to feel they have it about right.



Here we part ways: I trust nothing the US media claims that can't be verified by other sources, and I only trust government figures when the reporting agency has no stake in the data, particularly the CDC, or when multiple agencies report the same data (because if one is fudging, the others will rat it out). 



Phil Istine said:


> The USA seems to have politicised the virus to a far greater extent than other nations who, in the main, regard the political arguments as something to be saved for how we recover economically.  I see social reforms on the horizon and wouldn't be surprised for the pandemic to accelerate the cause of a universal basic income of sorts, especially when considering the advance of computerisation.



You have no idea. The politics come in far ahead of the actual disease. Careers are being made & broken with each passing week. Both political parties have vested interests in how the virus plays out, especially since this is a general election. The decisions being made are solely based on political outcomes.

For one simple example: the Texas governor put out strict quarantine standards (and openly admitted it was for Federal funds). When a woman in the DFW area ended up in jail over openly refusing to follow a court order to comply, the governor promptly, and publicly, recommended that she be released, and through the AG's office, banned confinement options from any further quarantine violations.

I have yet to see any decision made here that wasn't political.


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## RWK (May 22, 2020)

Biro said:


> Don't know regards political leaders.  Most are attracting lots of criticism they could do without and destroying the economy isn't going to get anybody votes.  More like it gives those who are useless in opposition something to attack the governments over.  So really not a great idea.



I can only speak for the USA, but the Democrats benefit from undoing all the good Trump has accomplished to date; the GOP also benefits, because they can blame any economic decline on Democrat sabotage. Since the growing proof that states are fudging the death toll for extra funding all point to blue states, the GOP is well-served there.  

As the quarantine and closing stuff is being dropped, any sudden surge in consumer spending will certainly help the incumbents.

The virus is a seasonal event; November 2020 is the main attraction.


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## Phil Istine (May 22, 2020)

RWK said:


> New York reports 22,000, 11 times that of Florida, and 7 times that of California. New York City claims 15,000 of that; a population of eight million claiming 7 times that of the state of Florida, and 5 times that of the state of California (12 times that of the state of Texas). New Jersey and Illinois likewise outstrip states with larger populations. You can make an argument that NYC might have gotten a head start, but it won't support the scale of difference. Unless you follow the money, and see that all three exaggerated states do not apply criminal punishments to death certificates involving non-criminal deaths.
> 
> Using statistics to generate Federal or state matching funds is nothing new to me; I saw that done throughout my career, both by law enforcement and civil agencies. Usually the Feds are smarter than paying by a single denominator; the state of Texas certainly is.
> 
> In summation: I believe that the 40% of corona deaths in the USA that have been reported by four states are extremely inflated. If you apply the ratios of deaths to population experienced by 46 states to those four, the situation in the USA is far different than the media lets on.



I have trimmed the quoted text for the purpose of brevity and to focus on the numbers.  I don't doubt that some numbers have been inflated for political and/or financial reasons - particularly as it's an election year.

I'm posting again because I think I see what's happened with your 0.0025%.  It looks like the percentage has been confused with the probability rate.

A probability rate of 0.0025 is the same as a probability rate of 1/400.  This is because, in probability, the 0.0025 number is compared to the number 1, where 1 means total certainty and 0 means impossible.  However, percentages are not compared to number 1 but to number 100.
A percentage of 0.0025% is 1/40,000 but a probability of 0.0025 is 1/400.  I'm guessing that this may be one of the sources of confusion.


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## Olly Buckle (May 22, 2020)

This thread seems to have strayed far from the original intent, however:

My first observation is that there is an awful lot of stuff about this illness we simply do not know, never mind the US, there are populations in Europe that seem to have suffered terribly, such as Italy and France, others, like Denmark, have not. This is not the result of political manipulation for financial gain from a federal government, it is a so far unexplained fact.

Flu may give some immunity for a while, but it is not lasting like chicken pox, people have the flu more than once. I have been regarded as vulnerable for some time as I take immunosuppressants and I am offered a new flu shot every year. That can't be because it is different flu every year, it takes much longer than that to produce a vaccine until very recently, it is that the immunity wears off. Like many things about covid we simply don't know if this applies or not yet.

Even if it only kills old and vulnerable people, so what? As an old and vulnerable person I object to that being a reason for not bothering, and I think my partner and children would as well. A right wing Govt. may not mind losing people who don't contribute to the economy, most people are not that heartless. I may be kidding myself, but I reckon there are even a few people here who have never met me in person who will feel something when I pop my clogs. However it is far from clear if the 'old and vulnerable' bit really is true, some may be more vulnerable, but some are not, and many middle aged and previously healthy people are proving to be extremely vulnerable. We don't know why yet, but assumptions were made in the early stages that are beginning to appear untrue.

Do you have an equivalent in the US of our office of national statistics that keeps a record of how many people have died at a particular time? They are a bit slow here, but it is becoming obvious that there are a lot more deaths than has been normal over the past few years, about twice as many as are getting covid on their death certificate, and that covid can cause sudden organ failure, so the death looks like a heart attack, or liver or kidney failure. Can places like NY really try to cheat for federal money when it will show up when the overall numbers of dead will become known?

Studies on that malarial drug don't appear to credit it with any effectiveness, vitamin D on the other hand does seem to help considerably, and I am guessing is even cheaper. I am wondering who is pushing the malarial and who has shares in the company making it? Just call me cynical.


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## dither (May 22, 2020)

That's an interesting point Mr.Buckle. This virus may well have been around for, who knows how long? Gnawing at vulnerables' vitals. I could use this as a basis for a rant but as you rightly said, we are way off topic here.


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## RWK (May 22, 2020)

Olly Buckle said:


> This thread seems to have strayed far from the original intent, however:
> 
> My first observation is that there is an awful lot of stuff about this illness we simply do not know, never mind the US, there are populations in Europe that seem to have suffered terribly, such as Italy and France, others, like Denmark, have not. This is not the result of political manipulation for financial gain from a federal government, it is a so far unexplained fact.
> 
> ...



Government statistics in the USA are a tricky thing; the Federal government's authority is much more limited than most people realize, and it comes out in such matters.  Not all states collect all data, not all states have the same reporting standards, and not all states cooperate fully with the Feds . And the Feds are notoriously hard to deal with in certain areas, including with each other.  

In addition, there are hefty restrictions on sharing anything concerning medical records, which is why the death certificate issue is a key one.


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## RWK (May 22, 2020)

dither said:


> That's an interesting point Mr.Buckle. This virus may well have been around for, who knows how long? Gnawing at vulnerables' vitals. I could use this as a basis for a rant but as you rightly said, we are way off topic here.



The core virus was discovered in the 1930s, after a decade or more studying diseases among chickens. It was recognized in Humans in the 1960s. Variants have been killing people since 2003 (or sooner, as suggested).


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## velo (May 22, 2020)

****SUPERVISOR NOTE***

Parts of this discussion are straying very close to political debate.  Let's keep the politics out of the conversation or move this to Dante's Inferno.  *


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## Irwin (May 22, 2020)

Even the pandemic has been politicized. That's the current state of our union.


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## Gofa (May 22, 2020)

You see nurses with bruising from wearing masks correctly
PS
wearing a mask lowers your Own oxygen intake and lowers your immune response 
stops stuff getting out  no value stopping getting in unless a real one Treated etc 

keep it simple


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## velo (May 22, 2020)

Gofa said:


> wearing a mask lowers your Own oxygen intake



I'm sorry, but that's utterly nonsensical.  Please provide some peer-reviewed science that backs that assertion.


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## RWK (May 22, 2020)

Biro said:


> Well RWK I cannot doubt what you say as I am certainly not qualified or have any knowledge whatsoever.  But you have been banging this same drum about viruses and flu for a few months now and today the UK announced a 14 day quarantine for visitors and a ban on foreign holidays for its subjects.  I imagine that other countries will follow or similar.
> 
> I have no idea but that's some knowledge you have.  Politicians are certainly not known for their grey matter but after all the accusations over dithering and incompetence in the past few months.  I doubt if the decision by the UK today was taken without seeking some advice on what is nothing but the flu.
> 
> I suppose we should be glad it's not something more serious otherwise we may all be chained to the floor.layful:



I haven't been following anything about the pandemic outside the USA. Different countries, different rules. Like I said earlier, the beaches and public pools are open here, and even tattoo parlors are back in business, so we ought to learn something in the coming weeks. So far  here in Texas the summer is starting off cool and wet, with the highs rarely exceeding the 80s.


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## dale (May 22, 2020)

i entered the experimental department of the covid-19 vaccine study. they paid me $500. i don't 
really feel any effects from the experimental vaccine? as far as like mood or sickness? but it does seem
to have made my penis larger for some reason. it's like the nurses can't believe it. especially the black ones.


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## Gofa (May 22, 2020)

velo said:


> I'm sorry, but that's utterly nonsensical.  Please provide some peer-reviewed science that backs that assertion.



first wearing mask all day and not a proper PPE and it gets damp 

i could go all medical but lets keep it simple 
put the sheet / blanket over your face when sleeping
the headache you awake with is low oxygen why ?
you are rebreathing 

delete me   I would hate to get in the way of the narrative that masks help 
although in my country the health service say they dont
where
New Zealand 
yes the country smart enough to do something about this plague and where health professionals
talk in one voice to all of us Daily as a briefing


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## dale (May 22, 2020)

lol. it's a hoax, people. it's been a hoax from the beginning. i actually find it laughable now that people won't get it.
the coronavirus IS the common cold. of course elderly people and "vulnerable" people die from these things. but this is absolutely
outrageously stupid that people have been so gullible to this point. what the coronavirus TRULY proves? is that society is full of idiots. 
that's all it proves.


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## VRanger (May 22, 2020)

RWK, you're simply out of your league discussing this disease, and I don't care how much training you had. 

It has a mortality rate of 10x to 231x the flu, depending on demographic. That may actually be low, as those multipliers were calculated when the reported mortality risk was far lower than it is now. 

The long period of being contagious without symptoms makes it virtually impossible to keep in check. The CDC and local authorities followed the same playbook that kept SARS and MERS out of general circulation, and did it competently. It failed with this disease because of that extended symptom-free infectious period.

It's been known for three months, although barely publicized, that even "mild" cases of this disease have a 75% chance to leave patients with permanent lung damage similar to asbestos exposure.
(https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2020200370). 

Dr. Birx expanded on that when she discussed their surprise at also finding cardio-vascular damage.

Then there are the real world examples you simply cannot ignore. I'll list my top three egregious examples:
* A family of twenty in NJ has a family dinner. All fall ill, four die, two more in ICU.
* A choir practice of 60 in Florida. All fall ill, 2 die.
* Mortality rates inside nursing homes which far exceed the flu.

You have NEVER, and I mean *you have never*, witnessed anything like that from "just a flu".

You can tell people this shut down can't last forever. It can't.

You can tell people they might not get this disease anyway, because actually the odds in most areas are rather against contracting it. That's fine.

But if you keep up with this nonsense that "It's just a flu", then we've got a problem. Spreading irresponsible and ignorant trash like that could get someone killed.

Why do I take this so personally? My wife happens to be on the cusp of the 15% mortality demographic. That's essentially the same odds as Russian Roulette. We don't do that either, so she's not going to stores, and I'm wearing an excellent mask when I do.

You do what you want to. I'll stick with documented fact.


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## velo (May 22, 2020)

Gofa said:


> first wearing mask all day and not a proper PPE and it gets damp
> 
> i could go all medical but lets keep it simple
> put the sheet / blanket over your face when sleeping
> ...



I asked for the science, not more unverified opinion.  I will change my mind if the evidence dictates.  So I'll just wait for the peer-reviewed journal articles...


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## dale (May 22, 2020)

Biro said:


> Okay so you are correct.  But why is it a hoax?



agenda 21. it's basically a globalist agenda. economic restructuring. depopulation. they knew that war wouldn't work like it used to.
i mean like in WW2. they knew it would essentially take a biological warfare plan instead of a more conventional one. there was way too much
"nationalism" happening again. not JUST with Trump in america. but with britain with brexit. poland. iceland. upheavals in china, france.
really? all civilized nations were starting to resist to this UN globalist scheme. protesters everywhere. so what did they do? create some hoax 
virus...which is actually less deadly than even the common flu. and then have the media scare the ever living crap out of everyone. so now this economic 
plan is being totally restructured. people are actually BEGGING for government checks. scared to death. and all over a virus that has a fucking over 99% survival rate.
are you fucking kidding me? lol


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## Gofa (May 22, 2020)

Dale 
im happy to call it pink elephant syndrome to satisfy you. But this pink elephant turns into pneumonia and kills 

as to world wide conspiracy i quote the thoroughly researched peer review documentary  Men In Black
where we were all told that there is always a Vogon Destroyer or some such threat about to obliterate earth 

get with the program agenda 21 is just a smoke screen put up by the Vogons


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## dale (May 22, 2020)

plus? for emphasis? let me explain that in no time in entire world history? have HEALTHY PEOPLE been quarantined. never.
this idea is like the antithesis of the word "quarantine". you don't isolate healthy people during a plague. you isolate the sick. 
this entire scam is so asinine and stupid? i could rattle on and on about it for hours. there's nothing about the covid-19 hoax
that actually makes sense, on any level.


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## Irwin (May 22, 2020)

It's one thing to embrace crazy conspiracy theories. It's another to be so lazy that you can't even bother following proper writing guidelines. Then again, to believe crazy conspiracy theories requires intellectual laziness.


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## dale (May 22, 2020)

Irwin said:


> It's one thing to embrace crazy conspiracy theories. It's another to be so lazy that you can't even bother following proper writing guidelines. Then again, to believe crazy conspiracy theories requires intellectual laziness.



lol. believing in "conspiracy theories" requires "intellectual laziness". lol. oh. that's a fucking hoot. because basically what you are saying is
that "embracing the established narrative" is....what? intellectual awareness? that just to blindly accept what your stupid tv tells you is...awareness?
ha ha. don't make me laugh.


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## Olly Buckle (May 22, 2020)

Come on Dale, be fair. He said 'believe crazy conspiracy theories', that doesn't preclude giving the saner ones a bit of credence; and I have the feeling his 'intellectual laziness' and your 'blind acceptance' are pretty comparable, they both denigrate taking things on board without thinking about it. You seem more influenced by the manner of expression than the content in this case.

Getting back to the thread, our cat has become very vocal, it miaows whenever it comes in, and sometimes just passing me in the garden. This is new behaviour.


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## velo (May 22, 2020)

dale said:


> i could rattle on and on about it for hours.



In this entire thread, I think this is the singular point that no one would dare argue with


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## dale (May 22, 2020)

velo said:


> In this entire thread, I think this is the singular point that no one would dare argue with



lol. are you a female? just asking.


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## velo (May 22, 2020)

dale said:


> lol. are you a female? just asking.



Curious why you're curious...


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## dale (May 22, 2020)

velo said:


> Curious why you're curious...



i don't know. what's your bra size?


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## Foxee (May 22, 2020)

You're both pretty.

Also, to the super-serious...this is not your thread. This is what this thread is about:




Take the debates to the inferno. Take coronavirus discussions elsewhere.

I mean it.

Foxee
Admin
(Who is staring at you very hard right now)


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## Gofa (May 23, 2020)

Love it Foxee when you go all Admin    sends chills 

also

i understand there is a huge apathy world conspiracy  But i cant be bothered to talk about it


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## River Rose (May 23, 2020)

LOCKDOWN NEWS FLASH
I was minding my own business, getting ready to mow the lawn last night when I saw cars pulling up in front of my neighbors house. As some time went on I realized they were having a get together w their friends. Their was music, they were sitting around the kitchen table laughing,drinking and snacking. Just like normal people. 
The humanity....;-)


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## Foxee (May 23, 2020)

****  I hope my post above was not too confusing. Move the debate and coronavirus discussions ELSEWHERE. ****


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