# growing up as a girl.



## A_Jones (Jul 11, 2014)

For my Amelia Thorn novel I am looking for challenges that girls go through growing up and discovering themselves.  Such as worrying about their looks, smarts, and friends.  Would anyone like to discuss their experiences?

Posted from my phone.


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## Bishop (Jul 11, 2014)

>.>

I've always wondered if I was pretty. I mean, I'm a guy, but I've worn the proverbial panties. Uhm. And literal panties.

...

I should probably just go ask Bishopette.


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## A_Jones (Jul 11, 2014)

Bishop!  *grabs him and phushes him out the door*  you dont count go away!  *throws panties after him* and take these with you!




By the way I am also looking for experiences of the trans gendered.  I think the view would be very beneficial to me if any are willing to speek up.


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## Pidgeon84 (Jul 11, 2014)

My experience as trans is probably a little different from a non trans girl, in that it's not so much "Oh I'm not pretty enough." It's more "Oh, my features are too manly" or "I don't pass." Of course there you feel the pressure to be pretty, it kind of comes with the other worries. But being overly dudely was/is my main concern.


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## A_Jones (Jul 11, 2014)

Many of the girls in Amelia thorn are the children of fairy tail monsters.  What you just said made me think of any girls who dont particularly look human, and how they may feel discouraged by how 'un-girl-like' they are.  Perhaps you could give me some other feelings or experiences you had?  If you dont mind?


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## shadowwalker (Jul 11, 2014)

I was more upset when my mom said I was too old for tackle football than I was concerned about looking pretty...


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## Pidgeon84 (Jul 12, 2014)

A_Jones said:


> Many of the girls in Amelia thorn are the children of fairy tail monsters.  What you just said made me think of any girls who dont particularly look human, and how they may feel discouraged by how 'un-girl-like' they are.  Perhaps you could give me some other feelings or experiences you had?  If you dont mind?



Well being a trans person and being a person trying to fit in, those are 2 completely different people. I feel I either try to fit in or be myself and become completely isolated. Which was frightening until I found the right group of people. That's a very scary thought in the hierarchy of middle/high school. So before I met the people that would become my true friends, I was surrounded by people, but still incredibly alone. Because the pressures of gender roles and peer pressure to be a certain thing makes for very superficial relationships.

 So I'm feeling self conscious, lonely, and that I can't trust the people around me. So even when I did come out, there was a constant unvalidation of my gender. No,  you can't use that dressing room. You're not a real girl. No, you can't come into prom, you're dressed as girl when you're clearly not. Not only are they saying you're not a real girl, they're saying we can tell what you are and what you are trying to do. We know what you want and you can't have it. 

So, all this is relatively non trans specific. It's to say that if the world deems you not pretty enough, it will invalidate you in heartbeat. If you don't fit the cheerleader model than you're not good enough. If you don't fit the gender role decided for you, you don't deserve our (shitty) friendship. You can have that stuff if you're pretty and shallow. Or in my case, if people can't tell I used to be a boy I'm somehow more validated. That weighed on me heavily, reaching for the idea of "if only I passed as a girl." but now I realize that shouldn't matter. If you tell you I'm a girl, you just my word on that. Even if I clearly used to be a boy. But that doesn't occur to you in high school.


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## A_Jones (Jul 12, 2014)

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences.  My goal for amelia thorn is to help the outcasts of the world validate themselves.  You have truly helped me.  Just because you are different doesnt mean you are wrong.  Just because your an orphan doesnt mean no one could ever want you.  You dont have to conform to general society, you can be your weird self.... and rock it.    

I have aspergers so growing I was treated like crap from basically everybody.  I just want to help children to realize they dont have to waste thir time trying to find a way to fit in.  Just be their beautiful selves and they will find peace. Somehow.


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## Pidgeon84 (Jul 12, 2014)

Good luck sounds awesome!


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## Riptide (Jul 12, 2014)

Um... Let's see. I grew up with my twin, always being compared to her in everything: looks, personalities, actions. People try to find a difference, poking at your flaws, jabbing, prodding, trying to find a difference, and man they aren't always nice about it!

I never cared for being different than my sister. I was different, I knew I was, but my parent always told me I was a follower, never breaking away... like, I always took back seat. It's hard when they favor one over the other, when they talk about her in such high esteem and you're just trying to be notice... so, I stopped really caring what they said because I knew I was different and better in my right. I was smarter, had better stamina and endurance, and I write.... hehe and I'm prettier.


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## Pidgeon84 (Jul 12, 2014)

Riptide said:


> Um... Let's see. I grew up with my twin, always being compared to her in everything: looks, personalities, actions. People try to find a difference, poking at your flaws, jabbing, prodding, trying to find a difference, and man they aren't always nice about it!
> 
> I never cared for being different than my sister. I was different, I knew I was, but my parent always told me I was a follower, never breaking away... like, I always took back seat. It's hard when they favor one over the other, when they talk about her in such high esteem and you're just trying to be notice... so, I stopped really caring what they said because I knew I was different and better in my right. I was smarter, had better stamina and endurance, and I write.... hehe and I'm prettier.



That's interesting,  me and my sister are very close despite being a million miles apart in age and personality. I never liked having the spotlight on just me when my sister moved out. There was a lot of stuff I couldn't get away with anymore lol


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## Lyra Laurant (Jul 14, 2014)

Hi, A_Jones! I think what I have to tell is more about growing up as a individual than especially as a girl, but...

Moving from a school that was like a second home for me, to a school where I just couldn't fit in, was an important (and traumatic) event for me for growing up. I was 14 and I was still insecure of who I was, but it didn't mean I would let other people tell me who I should be.


I had lots of good friends in my old school, but I just couldn't relate to people of the new school. All the girls would brag about how many guys they had already kissed (I don't know if it happens in other places, but here it is common to kiss someone you may or may not be attracted to, or with someone you've just known in a party, or with 2 or more at the same party... no romantic commitment, just enjoying the physical part). Me, on the other hand, only kiss people I care about. I don't think it is wrong kissing or going to bed just for fun, but I don't feel like doing that if I don't feel anything special for the person. So, during a school trip, a "friend" of mine humiliated me in front of everyone because I was 14 and had never kissed a guy before, while most of our classmates had already gone to bed with someone. In that moment, surrounded by people that thought I was an alien for wanting to only kiss for love, I felt lonely for not fitting in. But then I thought "Thanks God I don't fit in. I don't want to fit in. I want to live accordingly to my own heart".


So, I stopped caring about what "everyone" would think about me. I never tried to fit their behavioural patterns (that also included illicit/criminal stuff, btw), and they would go mad because of it. My "friends" couldn't accept the fact that I thought I was beautiful the way I was (not sexy at all, but I was cute), or that I wasn't ashamed of being smart and having good grades (I didn't even know it could be something to be ashamed about until they tried to convince me of that), or that I was happy the exact way I was. But that was their problem, not mine.


(In High School I made friends who didn't try to tell me who I should be, and we could be aliens together, each one in their own way)


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## A_Jones (Jul 14, 2014)

Thank you for your experiences, they are very helpful.  Can anyone point me in the direction of an angsty teen blog?


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## count58 (Jul 15, 2014)

When you were still a child, Mom had to take care of how you look. But as you reach teenage especially girls, you get conscious with your looks and even the way you dress. That is why you prefer to shop your own clothes with Mom. Perhaps a visit to a beauty shop may be necessary although it's a bit expensive. But nevertheless, when you reach adolescence. You start to mingle with guys you like hoping they will like you back. That's when you feel pretty and proud, when you have the best guy around.


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## Smith (Jul 24, 2014)

Some have told me I've written angsty teen stuff. It isn't a blog though, and I'm also not a girl.

Interesting thread, by the way.


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## aj47 (Jul 24, 2014)

I'll ask around about angsty teen blogs.

My issue with being a girl was that I was an intelligent, handicapped one.  So I may not fit what you're dealing with.

There was intense denial on the part of many of my instructors because of my gender and blindness.  I should have gotten a Merit Scholarship -- I had the highest score on the PSAT in my school.  But the guidance counselor said I would not be able to achieve anything due to my being a blind girl and so they awarded the scholarship to Someone Else.

No, it's not fair.  But I think my struggles aren't about my gender except for one aspect.  Smart girls are ugly.  Ugliness is a by-product of superior intelligence, or so I was led to believe.  My mother used to say, "No one likes a smart girl, but everyone likes a pretty one."  It was too hard to be stupid so I accepted my ugliness and went on.  It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized I wasn't ugly.  I still struggle when people compliment me.  But I'm improving and owning it.

My avatar is Susan Sarandon as the character of the ultimate "baseball annie" but my profile pic is me. And I'm not at all hard on the eyes, even though I'm over fifty.


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## Morkonan (Jul 24, 2014)

A word on... just growing up.

When we're growing up, our worlds are smaller. Consequently, we only have so much "going on" in our lives. As a child, not getting that desired toy on Christmas is as terrible to us as being passed over for promotion to a dream-job at work would be for an adult. When we lose our first girlfriend/boyfriend or are spurned by our "crush", we're as devastated as we would be as an adult that just found out their wife/husband was filing for divorce. When our friend "betrays" us and goes with other friends to a movie, we're as heartbroken as we would be if, as adults, we found out our best friend was stealing from us or making time with our wife/husband.

In my opinion, no story about growing up can be without these sorts of world-crashing issues that kids somehow endure. It's not that they "get over them" in a vacuum, either. Often, it's because they're faced with issues that put their adolescent trials in a more appropriate perspective. Yet, to an adolescent, these emotional struggles can be just as heartbreaking, just as critical, just as intense as any adult's feelings during their own personal struggles in their world. 

We are sometimes forced to grow up not through inches, but through miles.


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## aj47 (Jul 24, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> A word on... just growing up.
> 
> [...]
> 
> We are sometimes forced to grow up not through inches, but through miles.



Yes.


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## bravery101 (Jul 27, 2014)

I never worried about looks. I never worried about makeup, hair, or guys. In fact, my biggest struggle growing up is that I find myself having to break into a "guy's world." I love cars (more than almost anything), comics, video games, and so on and it has always been hard for me to nose my way into everything. You have to prove yourself a lot. "Teenage angst" is BS in my opinion, and many girls do not undergo it the way it's portrayed on TV...


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## Kat (Aug 3, 2014)

I still vividly remember the first instance that I realized that girls were not treated the same as boys. 

We used to go camping in the high desert every year growing up. There were a bunch of boys my age, all the other girls were at least 5 years younger. I was 12. In the morning we all set out to explore. The boys went one way, my sister and I another. We were gone for hours. It was about lunch time when my sister and I made it back to camp. Boy was I in trouble. I had wandered off without telling anyone. As an adult I understand this as a valid complaint. But then, I knew where I was going and we made it back fine so no big deal. After being read the riot act and finishing lunch the boys showed up. Not only did they not get in trouble. They left the same time I did, they didn't tell anyone they were leaving. Then I was asked to get them lunch. I was irate. That was the last year that I went camping. I stayed home by myself every year after that. 

I am a lot more conscious about gender bias with my own children. That one moment made such a huge difference in how iv viewed the men in my life and also my mother. She was supposed to be my ally, and she wasn't. I lost a lot of trust in her.


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## Hopeful Writer (Aug 9, 2014)

I think I might have another trans experience for you. I grew up around pretty conservative and religious people. A psychiatrist first told my parents I was a girl when I was like 3 years old. I wasn't stereo-typically girly. I enjoyed legos, and video games (even though i sucked at them), but even with short hair and boys clothes - people would always 'mistake' me for a girl. That wasn't good enough for my parents though and instead of embracing me, they embraced their delusion. Anything deemed girly that I got my hands on or expressed interest in was taken away. I wasn't allowed to pursue art, or piano, or sewing, or cooking. Whenever I'd get dolls or stickers, or anything remotely fun - it would vanish when I slept.

Even with all of this I made do. I'd go off into fantasy worlds, and JRPGs helped a bit, so it wasn't all that bad. All the friends I made were girls, generally older though. Oddly enough, I never faced any bullying in those earlier years. Boys were always especially nice to me for some reason. Much nicer than the other people they thought of as boys. I did good in school and coped. I had an exceptionally small frame, and was pretty (read: average for a girl) from a young age. The nightmare didn't really start until puberty hit. Yes, nightmare is the word for it. I've been raped, had a loaded gun pressed against my head, lost my apartment and job to Sallie Mae, and still the worst experience of my life was puberty.

The men in my family are not small. They are all 6+ feet tall, 50 inch chests, huge arms, big hands, big feet, big... other things. They are the men you see in comic books. So, what happened to me during puberty, versus the other girls was extremely traumatic and confusing. I couldn't understand why I was changing in such a radically different way from them. (It might be worth noting that I have some developmental disabilities, so I was about at the level of a 6yr old emotionally then)I didn't even know the word transsexual existed, or that there were things that could have saved me. My grades went from straight A's to straight F's within the course of a few months. My constant pursuit of art, writing, and the like quickly turned into drug abuse. It wasn't until almost a decade later, when I was finally given hormone shots and T blockers that I stopped trying to OD, and felt like my life might be worth living.

Sorry if that's a bit dark. =P


In the end, a lot of my experiences were similar to other girls. The way people started looking at me when my breasts grew. I still have the girl face and the thin arms, and my voice never became manly. I've never had an adams apple either. I started being given discounts, and free stuff at places like I had received as a child, only this time - there were expectations when the men did it. I learned that men had different things in mind when they offered me booze as opposed to when I was presenting as male. I also learned from a rather unique perspective, just how much more privilege men have in this society than women. I also learned that having smart things to say only mattered to a lot of people, if you didn't have boobs.


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## A_Jones (Aug 15, 2014)

THank you so much hopfull writer for talking to me about your experiences!!  I hope you have become a strong and beautiful person because of the pain you have been through.  

Yes I plan on touching up a bit about how women are viewed in society.  My book is roughly 1920s time so it will be even worse.  It is important though!  However my problems growing up never stemmed from gender issues.  They were always revolving around my having aspergers.


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