# Gardens!



## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 2, 2013)

I think it is now safe to say that it is spring where I am. Last time I said that we got snow the next day, though, so we'll see. In any case, I am far, far from a master gardener, but I grow things and get excited about it, or get frustrated and bent out of shape and have questions, and I bet some of you folks do, too. 

Current excitement: I bought a bunch of tomatoes and peppers and I'm going to plant them today. This might seem late to many of you, but I'm in zone 4 so this is when we do it. I am pondering the purchase of several perennials--we had a really long hideous winter this year and I'm not sure if the old ones died or if they're just not up yet--and a forsythia. Think it would have really made this spring better if I'd had a forsythia to look at.

Frustration: the disgusting green caterpillars who eat all my rosebuds have returned. 

What are you all growing? What are your favorite plants? What are your problems? And how do you rid your world of disgusting caterpillars?


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## Gargh (Jun 2, 2013)

I love forsythia too, they are beautiful and really easy to layer. A couple of mine are unfortunately a bit green this year though because I pruned the new growth a bit too hard last year. 

My mum's solution to caterpillars - and every other pest under the sun - is to squirt the affected plants with a solution of highly diluted washing up liquid. I'm assuming it has some effect on the surface of the plant and/or the hairs on the wee beastie's feet but it works fairly well.


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## Gargh (Jun 2, 2013)

Oh, and I had some success diverting caterpillars from cabbages by planting some sacrificial companion Nasturtiums. It may work with roses?


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 2, 2013)

Hm, I will have to try spraying soap on them. Last year I stood around obsessively picking them off by hand, but that was time-consuming and not very effective. Thanks, Gargh!


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## Pluralized (Jun 2, 2013)

I have heard that Dr. Bronner's works well for natural pesticide.

We're in Georgia, and growing is easy here. Last year I built a massive raised bed, about six feet by thirty, and filled 'er with composted organic soil. Right now we've got tomato plants competing for space with cucumber vines, zucchini, heirloom corn, and a big section of carrots. The only real pest I've had to contend with has been the deer that keeps eating the leaves off my apple tree. Planted that baby with the seeds of an apple I ate in Washington a few years ago visiting my best friend. It's about eighteen inches tall now, and by the time my daughter graduates high school, I hope she can eat of its fruit. (sounds ridiculous but I don't care, I'm a sentimental sap)


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## JosephB (Jun 2, 2013)

We have a pretty big lot behind our house and at one point, we had a pretty big garden and grew tomatoes, peppers, squash, eggplant, peas -- and a few herbs too including basil, rosemary etc. I did most of the prep, but my wife did the bulk of the gardening -- I don't enjoy it all. (That goes for any landscaping or gardening in general.) Over the years, as the kids got older and into more things, the garden has gotten smaller and a couple of years ago, we landscaped over about three quarters of it. Now it's just tomatoes and peppers and cucumbers. With the tomatoes, we had more problems with birds then insects, we had to put up netting to keep them out.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 2, 2013)

When my son was little, I had a small 'intensive' garden. Corn, tomatoes, onions, lettuce, cauliflower - all planted in and around each other on raised beds. Never had to weed! I installed an under-the-surface gravity watering system with a rainbarrel - could even add the liquid fertilizer to the barrel. Cheesecloth over the top to keep the nasties out and let the rain in. Easiest garden I ever had! Well, until harvest...


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## Pennywise (Jun 2, 2013)

I live in apartments and so have potted plants of seasonal flowers


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## TheWritingWriter (Jun 2, 2013)

Every location is different, so sometimes you're either early or late to beginning your garden.

We've got flowers, oregano, cilantro, & lettuce growing in our back yard. My parents have started theirs too. They've got tomatos, zuchini, squash, peppers, & something else. I don't remember, but it's all coming up very well. We're very excited.


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## Lewdog (Jun 2, 2013)

Pluralized said:


> I have heard that Dr. Bronner's works well for natural pesticide.
> 
> We're in Georgia, and growing is easy here. Last year I built a massive raised bed, about six feet by thirty, and filled 'er with composted organic soil. Right now we've got tomato plants competing for space with cucumber vines, zucchini, heirloom corn, and a big section of carrots. The only real pest I've had to contend with has been the deer that keeps eating the leaves off my apple tree. Planted that baby with the seeds of an apple I ate in Washington a few years ago visiting my best friend. It's about eighteen inches tall now, and by the time my daughter graduates high school, I hope she can eat of its fruit. (sounds ridiculous but I don't care, I'm a sentimental sap)



Dr. Bronner's is not just regular soap, it's hemp soap.


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## Jon M (Jun 2, 2013)

.


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## Gargh (Jun 2, 2013)

I'd like to share my lovely peonies from today


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## PiP (Jun 2, 2013)

Hi Lasm,

We also have the pesky green caterpillars to contend with. I’ve found the most effective deterrent is to spray them with diluted natural soap. In fact, soapy water seems an effective treatment for most Portuguese bugs. That is, except a strange white one, which when squeezed oozes a disgusting red liquid (not blood). If you do not treat the infestation immediately they suck the life out of your plants and fruit trees. I either remove these bugs by hand (yuck) or dab them with hydrogen peroxide 3% volume. 

  My biggest problem is snails and slugs - I swear I’ve never seen so many in such a small space! I’ve tried using organic slug pellets but the ants stole them! Imagine seeing hundreds of blue dots dancing across the soil; trust me it's quite alarming, until you realise the cause.  I am reliably or maybe unreliably informed, as I’ve not tested the theory as yet that the beer method works well. You simply place pots strategically around your vegetable garden and then fill with beer to tempt the snails. Once in the pots, they drown. What a way to end their days!

  Overall, I avoid using pesticides because they harm the bees and the bee population is in decline.

There’s such a wonderful variety of insects in my garden I now photograph and write poems or stories about them. Yes, I know I’m sad. 

 What type of tomatoes are you growing? 

I’ve also been experimenting with container gardening as I have limited space. My successes include strawberries, beringela, tomatoes, raspberries, tayberries, chilli peppers, lettuce and cucumbers to name a few. I'm still experimenting but I enjoy the challenge. 

  Have you had any success growing fruit and veg in containers? 

PiP


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## PiP (Jun 2, 2013)

Wow Garth, they are beautiful!


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## Ariel (Jun 2, 2013)

We have a container garden because, while I have about an acre, the property isn't fenced and the neighbors will steal food off the vines.  Also, the soil is mostly clay and I have about six large black walnut trees.  Walnut trees seep a mild acid into the soil under them that kills almost all plants that grow under them.  Thus far the only flowers I can get to grow around my walnut trees are tulips.  If I knew when/how to harvest them I would just to sell them.  I had one a couple years ago and they're delicious!

Anyway, we had Serrano peppers, Roma tomatoes, green pepper, Santa Fe grande peppers, and beefsteak tomatoes.  The cat ate our garlic and green onions so they've died.  She also ate the Venus fly trap.


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## IanMGSmith (Jun 2, 2013)

My better half does most of the flowers and even mows the lawn ...like Joe's missus. I do heavy stuff like landscaping, soil drainage, fences and hedges, gates and building the driveway etc.

Had swallows in the garage at our former home and I would whistle to them as they were being reared. One year the fledglings kept "dive bombing" me. They would come screaming out of the main bunch from high in the sky and almost take my head off. One even fluttered after me into the kitchen where it hovered at arms length for a few seconds before flying away.

Now I whistle to the Robins while excavating soil and they get quite excited over the worms which I turn up. I believe Robins would follow big mammals like wild boar and eat the worms turned up by their foraging.

I'm definitely a bit nuts. 

Anyways, wanted to tell you that this year many of the clay pots on sale at our local garden centre are engraved with the verse of a particular poem.

_The kiss of the sun for pardon,
The song of the birds for mirth,--
One is nearer God's heart in a garden
Than anywhere else on earth._
...extract from "God's Garden" by D.F. Gurney 

Happy gardening all,

Ian


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 2, 2013)

I have been putting plants out at the front of the house for people to take, mint, chives, verbena bonariensis, parsley, lemon verbena, rosemary, and cabbage and calabrese. I expect there are some others too. Some are 'extras' where I have planted more seed than I needed, some are things that self seed all over the garden and I save them when I am weeding, and some are things that take cuttings fairly easily.

I have garlic, onions, cabbage, calabrese, cavalo nero, chard and spinach. In the greenhouse there are pots of lettuce for leaf, cucumber, tomato, chilli, greenpepper and basil. I have marjoram, thyme, sage, rosemary and oregano outside as well, and radishes. Fruit wise there are blackcurrants, strawberries, rhubarb, gooseberries, raspberries and an apple tree.

I usually grow a row of new potatoes for the taste, but it was so wet last year everything suffered from late blight so I thought I would give them a rest for a year, I am also growing my tomatos in grow bags for the same reason.

I grow gladioli for cut flowers and saved all the little corms to grow on, they are doing well, busy , busy, busy.


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## FleshEater (Jun 2, 2013)

I don't do gardens or flowers, but I do love doing shrub landscaping. This early spring I planted 6 spireas, 1 flamingo willow, 3 boxwoods, 3 moonshadows, 1 holly, 1 Japanese holly, 2 aborvitaes, 1 tall shrub juniper, 2 Chinese junipers, and transplanted 4 ground cover junipers, and one large aborvitae.

My ground cover junipers are taking the transplant pretty hard, but everything else is flourishing. I like easy maintenance.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 2, 2013)

IanMGSmith said:


> Anyways, wanted to tell you that this year many of the clay pots on sale at our local garden centre are engraved with the verse of a particular poem.
> 
> _The kiss of the sun for pardon,
> The song of the birds for mirth,--
> ...



Oh, I'm so glad to see that poem and its source! When I was little, my mom had a wooden plaque with that carved on it (handwritten then carved, no less) and I always loved it. Now I know where it came from. :joyous:


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 3, 2013)

Caterpillar update: I sprayed the rose bush all over with a solution of the cheap shampoo that a recent houseguest left behind, thinking that soap is soap. This morning the caterpillars seem undeterred and my backyard smells like Suave. I'll have to try the Dr. Bronner's, maybe that will work better.

Jon, strawberries are very tough little plants, good for starting out. 

Gargh, I love your peonies! Mine have a week or two to go. Maybe I'll post pictures of the cool plants when they start to flower. 

PiP, I would love to see your pictures and poems of bugs in your garden, that's not sad at all.  We (the Mr. and I) try to get a big variety of tomatoes. We have Black Russian, Amana Orange, Red Grape, Green Zebra, and Tigerella right now. We're also expecting a grab bag from a friend who grows seedlings to sell, plus whatever volunteers show up--there was a yellow pear a few years back whose offspring always seem to turn up. So we'll probably have 11-12 plants total. I like tomatoes a lot. 

I haven't done much container gardening, just herbs and a couple times cherry or grape tomatoes, when I ran out of room in the space where I generally plant them. Sounds like you and amsawtell are the authorities on that.

Although I was thinking about trying zucchini (courgettes? swedes? feel like these are called something different in Britain) in a pot. They don't work in the main garden, we get end rot which I think comes from a fungus in the soil. But maybe in potting soil they'd be okay.

Fun to hear what everyone's growing!


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## Angelicpersona (Jun 3, 2013)

I just planted a little while ago too. We had a late last freeze about 3 weeks ago. I have a townhouse with a small garden plot out front, so not much room for anything, but I planted some sweet peas, zinnias, chamomile and lavender. I was also talking with hubby about getting some tomatoes to put in planters on the back deck. We were cuddling on the couch and I swear to you I could literally smell warm tomato plants. It was the weirdest thing.


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## PiP (Jun 3, 2013)

Hi lasm, 

I don't think shampoo is quite the same; you need natural soap.:lol: 

I'd love to try all the different varieties of tomatoes you mention, shame they are not available here. All my seedlings are bought from a local farmers' market...the old farmers grow nothing fancy. They live simply and I've noticed most fruit and veg are basic.

Zucchini are courgettes  I only call them zucchini because most of my blog followers are from the USA and Canada, so it's simpler if we use the same lingo. I also experienced problems growing courgettes due to blossom end rot, and eventually conceded defeat.  I not only tried growing them in pots but also directly in the soil; neither option proved successful. Living less that 1/2km from the Atlantic Ocean, while picturesque, creates many gardening challenges due to the high humidity and cruel salt winds. Over the years I've learned to approach gardening in a more creative way and I've had great fun experimenting with what grows where, when and how.

One of my garden blogging buddies suggested I spray the plants with a mixture of 50/50 milk and water to help over come blossom end rot. Not tested the theory as yet...has any one else heard of this?

Lasm, my 'friends' think I'm mega sad because I'm passionate about my plants, nature...and er... writing and the net.

One of my favourite plants is hibiscous. I've since learned, through trial and error, how to take cuttings and produce lots of plants... which I give away - suddenly I'm everyones best friend, and not quite such a sad tree hugger  

Yay 




I grew this from a tiny cutting.



I found this little critter hiding in my strawberries...you probably heard me scream!


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## Ariel (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm no expert!  This is my first garden.


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## patskywriter (Jun 3, 2013)

*Love* your peonies, Gargh! Just when mine started to bloom, they were destroyed by a raging thunderstorm. Looks like an angry bully got off the school bus, knocked the peonies over, and kicked them while they were down. *So* disappointing.

Everything else is doing great—golden raspberries, strawberries, squash, watermelon, beans, snap peas, onions, cucumbers, and sweet potatoes—and my nonedibles (verbena, daylilies, balsam, coreopsis, red hot pokers, elephant ears, taro, poppies, 4 o'clocks, cannas, iris, petunias, hydrangeas, lilies, marigolds, and mint). *And,* the folks at a nonprofit community garden gave me a fig tree! Woohoo!


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 3, 2013)

I have heard of the milk and water thing being used for a fungal thing, I think it was for mildew on cucumber leaves, worth a try .


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 3, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> I'm no expert!  This is my first garden.


 If you were in England I would recommend runner beans for a beginner, easy to grow, lots of tasty beans and they put some nitrogen in the soil. Crazy weather? I don't know.


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## PiP (Jun 3, 2013)

Olly Buckle said:


> I have heard of the milk and water thing being used for a fungal thing, I think it was for mildew on cucumber leaves, worth a try .



Hi Olly,
Apparently, you can also use to prevent rust and blight. I may start spraying my tomato plants to test the theory.
PiP


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 3, 2013)

PiP, your hibiscus is lovely! I have a couple, pale pink ones, if they made it through the winter. I'm not sure yet, they always emerge a little later than the other perennials. Usually I get flowers in late June. Your scorpion is the opposite of lovely, yikes! One nice thing about living in a cooler climate, none of those things crawling about.

Olly, your milk and water thing sounds interesting, may have to try that if I decide to give the zucchini a.k.a. courgettes a shot this year.

Patskywriter, I'm curious about your fig tree--does it flower? Is it fabulous?

All right, to distract myself from being whiny and impatient in the LM thread, I went and took pictures of my current favorite part of the garden, which is what I like to call... 

*The Area of Interesting Foliage. *

heuchera, jacob's ladder, wormwood, cranesbill geranium, wooly thyme groundcover. Tennis ball curated by Romeo the dog. If the hibiscus comes back it'll be behind these guys.


two thrilling columbine varieties & the wormwood


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## Ariel (Jun 3, 2013)

Olly Buckle said:


> If you were in England I would recommend runner beans for a beginner, easy to grow, lots of tasty beans and they put some nitrogen in the soil. Crazy weather? I don't know.



I live in the Midwest US.  We have crazy weather.  It snowed in early May and last week was hot, humid, and rainy.  The tornado systems that hit Oklahoma hit south of where I live.  All said and done, I think that it's a temperate climate comparable with England.

I'm a beginner in that I've never had a garden of my own.  My mother grew plants and had dozens.  My neighbor has always had a food garden in the summer.  One year she had corn, peppers, tomatoes, okra, beans, watermelon, and cotton.  I helped her with all of it.  She doesn't get around like she used to.


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## Leyline (Jun 3, 2013)

lasm --

We've always used a citrus spray to fight catterpillars. This is pretty much my Dad's recipe:

How to Make Caterpillar Repellent | eHow

Safe, organic, effective, and smells much nicer than soap.


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## Leyline (Jun 3, 2013)

To answer the other Q:

We're growing tomatoes, potatoes, green beans, cukes, green peppers, chile peppers, lettuce and cabbage. This is probably the smallest garden we've done in ages.


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## Gargh (Jun 4, 2013)

Anyone know how to grow these...?

(photo from ilovecute.com - no, really!)


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## JosephB (Jun 4, 2013)

Can this discussion include the plants I tried to grow in my dorm room closet?


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## Gargh (Jun 4, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Can this discussion include the plants I tried to grow in my dorm room closet?



Er, mushrooms aren't technically plants...?


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 4, 2013)

Gargh said:


> Er, mushrooms aren't technically plants...?


Yes fungi are plants, but I think he meant the ones under lights that the DEA were interested in, unless they were magic mushrooms. It's the student reference, it is a sort of code to people of his generation, modern students only drink alcohol, I have it on good authority from my student daughter


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## Lewdog (Jun 4, 2013)

Even 'Magic' mushrooms are still mushrooms, and they are most definitely not grown in closets, they are found in cow pastures covered in dung.


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## Tettsuo (Jun 4, 2013)

For bug repellent and insecticide, I use a mixture of neem oil (organic), liquid soap and water.  For fungal problems, I add some tea tree oil (organic) to the mix.  This was fantastic for dealing with my peach tree's leaf curl problem.


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## JosephB (Jun 4, 2013)

Olly Buckle said:


> Yes fungi are plants, but I think he meant the ones under lights that the DEA were interested in, unless they were magic mushrooms. It's the student reference, it is a sort of code to people of his generation, modern students only drink alcohol, I have it on good authority from my student daughter



Heh. Correct. Not mushrooms. And it wasn't all that long ago -- I don't think partaking habits have changed all that much.


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## ppsage (Jun 4, 2013)

> Er, mushrooms aren't technically plants...?


Depends on which technical you want to cite. Under the old taxonomy which divided biology into zoology and botany, and life into the plant and animal kingdoms, fungus was studied in botany. That system had really faded by the fifties. The five kingdom system gave fungi their own kingdom and they weren't plants anymore. Modern cladistics is shaving away some of the traditional fungal species, mostly making them go into kingdoms with protists. Morphologically and bio-chemically, fungus is very different from plantlife.


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## JosephB (Jun 4, 2013)

Thanks. That seems to come up a lot and I never know what to say.


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## Kevin (Jun 4, 2013)

Gargh said:


> Er, mushrooms aren't technically plants...?


 Heh...kids... (oh..the things we can't tell them)


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## PiP (Jun 4, 2013)

Tettsuo said:


> For bug repellent and insecticide, I use a mixture of neem oil (organic), liquid soap and water.  For fungal problems, I add some tea tree oil (organic) to the mix.  This was fantastic for dealing with my peach tree's leaf curl problem.



Hi Tettsuo,

My peach tree has leaf curl so I will certainly try the tea tree oil mix. How often do you spray your tree?

PiP


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## Lewdog (Jun 4, 2013)

pigletinportugal said:


> Hi Tettsuo,
> 
> My peach tree has leaf curl so I will certainly try the tea tree oil mix. How often do you spray your tree?
> 
> PiP



Tea Tree Oil is great as an anti-fungal.  It works on toes and feet too, but you have to be very careful to dilute it quite a bit.


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## Tettsuo (Jun 5, 2013)

pigletinportugal said:


> Hi Tettsuo,
> 
> My peach tree has leaf curl so I will certainly try the tea tree oil mix. How often do you spray your tree?
> 
> PiP


In spring when the buds are forming and in the fall after all the leaves are gone is the best times to spray.  Also, don't spray if it's going to rain soon.  Spray when you have a time gap of a few days so the rain doesn't wash away the mix.

I was late this year and got a lot of leaves that were all bubbly and crap.  I went ahead and sprayed anyway and the bubbly leaves fell off and now new healthy leaves are covering the tree (Yay!!).



Lewdog said:


> Tea Tree Oil is great as an anti-fungal.  It works on toes and feet too, but you have to be very careful to dilute it quite a bit.


I have a two gallon sprayer and I only put in about 2 tablespoons each of liquid soap, tree tree oil and neem oil.  Too much oil will cook the leaves in the sun and smother them (I think).


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## PiP (Jun 5, 2013)

Thanks Tettsuo



Lewdog said:


> Tea Tree Oil is great as an anti-fungal.  It works on toes and feet too, but you have to be very careful to dilute it quite a bit.



Hi Lew,

Interesting suggestion; I'll give it a try, thanks


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 5, 2013)

ppsage said:


> Depends on which technical you want to cite. Under the old taxonomy which divided biology into zoology and botany, and life into the plant and animal kingdoms, fungus was studied in botany. That system had really faded by the fifties. The five kingdom system gave fungi their own kingdom and they weren't plants anymore. Modern cladistics is shaving away some of the traditional fungal species, mostly making them go into kingdoms with protists. Morphologically and bio-chemically, fungus is very different from plantlife.


I was aware that the old division of animal, vegetable or mineral had some fuzzy edges, and fungi do not have cellulose cell walls like plants generally, but a quick look through the web convinces me my biology is very out of date. It is fifty years since I last took an exam in it and I barely remember the phylum names, I stand corrected.


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## ppsage (Jun 5, 2013)

> It is fifty years since I last took an exam in it


Being originally entirely (and still, despite bio-tech, importantly) a descriptive science, biology is slow to entirely adopt new systematics, and conservative of older literature. My standard reference on forest pathology, yet to be superseded (Boyce), is written under the two-kingdom system, and a lot of still useful plant pathology identification material is old enough to acknowledge both naming schemes. The five-kingdom taxonomy is itself now dated, but it's the basis of a large amount of the non-genetic species identification literature, so it's probably still the most useful for the person interested in casual identification.


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## Lewdog (Jun 5, 2013)

I thought is was pretty simple as to how a plant was defined.  To be a plant, the species must use photosynthesis to create their own food.  Fungi live off dead matter and does not use photosynthesis to create its own food, and since this discovery, has been given its own kingdom.


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## ppsage (Jun 5, 2013)

> how a plant was defined.


It's an important trait but there are plants which don't use any photosynthesis. Indian Pipe, which I've collected on the coast, comes immediately to mind. Many plants are at least partially parasitic. Not sure if any are strict decomposers. Fungi can be parasites and symbioants as well as decomposers. Inclusion in species (and higher taxa) is always a matter of generalizing many traits and sometimes requires compromises. Although based on sensible foundations, these are artificial groupings, not facts of nature, and meant for utility.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 5, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> I thought is was pretty simple as to how a plant was defined.  To be a plant, the species must use photosynthesis to create their own food.  Fungi live off dead matter and does not use photosynthesis to create its own food, and since this discovery, has been given its own kingdom.


Not quite that simple, there are parasitic and saprophytic plants, living things tend to mutate to fill every niche there is in time.


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## Lewdog (Jun 5, 2013)

Olly Buckle said:


> Not quite that simple, there are parasitic and saprophytic plants, living things tend to mutate to fill every niche there is in time.



There are exceptions presumably to every rule, however some things shouldn't be over-thought.  Very rarely do scientist just throw things into certain categories just for the sake of having a place for it, but instead find a method to the madness.  Fungi have certain other traits that help delineate it from plants, other than just how it feeds itself.  So yes, the answer I gave may not be so simple all the time, but if you had to describe it to a layman, it would be the easiest way.  It seems so many times in this day and age, education by subtraction is more efficient than education by addition, or in the case of "exceptions to the rule," through multiplication.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 6, 2013)

Well, in case anyone's been biting their nails wondering about my caterpillar situation, it's been raining off and on for the last couple days and supposed to continue through the weekend. So no point in trying to spray them to death until that stops, all I can do is pick them off when I see them. I think this does help in the long run, though, there aren't as many as there were last year.

We're having an exceptionally cold and rainy spring, it seems. Towards the end of winter I was joking about living in Narnia, now I'm joking about living in _The Road._ Everyday just gray and cold and wet. Ineffective dead sun somewhere up there. 

I am a sad gray lady who stands around killing caterpillars between rains.


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## Kevin (Jun 6, 2013)

You could make a traditional Oompa Loompa meal.


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## JosephB (Jun 6, 2013)

lasm said:


> Well, in case anyone's been biting their nails wondering about my caterpillar situation, it's been raining off and on for the last couple days and supposed to continue through the weekend. So no point in trying to spray them to death until that stops, all I can do is pick them off when I see them. I think this does help in the long run, though, there aren't as many as there were last year.
> 
> We're having an exceptionally cold and rainy spring, it seems. Towards the end of winter I was joking about living in Narnia, now I'm joking about living in _The Road._ Everyday just gray and cold and wet. Ineffective dead sun somewhere up there.
> 
> I am a sad gray lady who stands around killing caterpillars between rains.



It's very frustrating when the weather doesn't cooperate. We lost most of our garden one year because of drought and watering restrictions. I know some people who cheated and watered anyway, but that's pretty low. It does make you really think about what it would be like if you were dependent on growing vegetables for food or to sell. Anyway, I hope things clear up so you can cheer up.


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## Lewdog (Jun 6, 2013)

lasm said:


> Well, in case anyone's been biting their nails wondering about my caterpillar situation, it's been raining off and on for the last couple days and supposed to continue through the weekend. So no point in trying to spray them to death until that stops, all I can do is pick them off when I see them. I think this does help in the long run, though, there aren't as many as there were last year.
> 
> We're having an exceptionally cold and rainy spring, it seems. Towards the end of winter I was joking about living in Narnia, now I'm joking about living in _The Road._ Everyday just gray and cold and wet. Ineffective dead sun somewhere up there.
> 
> I am a sad gray lady who stands around killing caterpillars between rains.



From reading many of Pavlov's musings, I quite distinctively remember that caterpillars have a very good memory and it's best to shock them with a cattle prod in order to teach them to say away from your plants.  In your case, make sure you are not standing in a rain puddle while doing it, or you may end up staying away from your plants as well.


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## JosephB (Jun 6, 2013)

I’m kind of fond of them because it’s really the only word my youngest daughter can’t pronounce – she says “callerpidars.” Of course, they’re not eating up my garden either.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 6, 2013)

Off topic, there was a little girl at the 'just talking' stage on a station the other day who was trying to point out to her mum the lady with a 'yellow umberella', two very difficult words at that stage, talk about cute, sorry, as you were.


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## Kevin (Jun 6, 2013)

Junior used to point and say "nake" and "pider". I have no idea what he was talking about.


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## JosephB (Jun 6, 2013)

Olly Buckle said:


> Off topic, there was a little girl at the 'just talking' stage on a station the other day who was trying to point out to her mum the lady with a 'yellow umberella', two very difficult words at that stage, talk about cute, sorry, as you were.



They make babies and toddlers so darned cute on purpose – so when they start getting older you want to have another one. I think it's one of those evolution things or something.


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## Kevin (Jun 7, 2013)

Judging by the direction of this thread I think it's pretty obvious what lasm needs to do.


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## JosephB (Jun 7, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Judging by the direction of this thread I think it's pretty obvious what lasm needs to do.



Grow cabbage?


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 7, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Judging by the direction of this thread I think it's pretty obvious what lasm needs to do.


hire toddlers to kill the caterpillars for me?
grow mushrooms and/or marijuana?
move to a place with actual sunshine?

waitaminute... you been talking to my mother-in-law, Kevin?


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## Winston (Jun 19, 2013)

Lasm, do you have many birds in your area?  Seems to me, if you need caterpillars gone, Tweety would be the best bet.

It's a bit late in the season, but an ornamental bush the birds can use for cover may get a few to stick around.  Also enticing them with a fruit bush may work (blackberries?!).  I don't know a ton about birds, but I'd think some Jays or Blackbirds would gobble up those caterpillars.  Or hire the toddlers.  I'm not sure which would leave a bigger mess.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 20, 2013)

The best advice always comes too late, the time to attract birds is in winter when food is short, they get used to hanging around the area and are still there when the insects emerge.

Your mother-in-law suggests growing pot lasm? How times have changed, I guess the flower children grew up.


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## Lewdog (Jun 20, 2013)

Olly Buckle said:


> The best advice always comes too late, the time to attract birds is in winter when food is short, they get used to hanging around the area and are still there when the insects emerge.
> 
> Your mother-in-law suggests growing pot lasm? How times have changed, I guess the flower children grew up.



Olly I don't think that would work.  I think Caterpillars like to smoke the stuff.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 20, 2013)

Thinking of pests this is a good tip. Most gardener's most hated pest is the slug, in damp old England anyway. Most slugs originate on lawns, their main natural predators are ground beetles, slug pellets are made with bran which actually attracts slugs, and if they are metaldahyde you don't really want them on your veg. Putting those facts together it pays to keep sharp edges on your lawns, ground beetles will slide down them and tend to go off into the bed rather than trying to climb back up. Stage one you have concentrated the predators where protection is needed. Then scatter your slug pellets along the edge of the lawn, that puts a barrier between the breeding ground and the bed, attracts slugs on the edge of the bed away from it, and does not put the poison in the bed.

Slugs make homes they return to, damp dark places. Good housekeeping can deprive them of such homes, on the other hand if they are there, a plank to tend a bed from or a pot plant in a saucer for instance, they can make a good place to seek and destroy slugs and then to put pellets down where they won't get rained on and dissolved.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 22, 2013)

Hey, Winston, we do have several fruit bushes near by (raspberry, currant) but the birds do not seem interested in these caterpillars for some reason. Probably because they are vile.

Olly, I thought Kevin was suggesting I produce toddlers of my own for caterpillar-suppression purposes, something my mother-in-law would like very much, so I assumed she was bribing or threatening him in some way.

The peonies blossomed very wonderfully and then--this seems to happen every year--we had giant dramatic thunderstorms that ruined them. I knew it was coming though, so brought some inside. But yes, wild storms, trees down all over the neighborhood, power outages, etc. Wherever my wireless signal beams from has a power outage, I think, because my home internet isn't working.

Caterpillar time seems to be over. There was too much rain for me to  spray anything on the bush again, but it appears my hand-picking over  the years has had an effect--maybe I managed to interrupt their  breeding cycle sufficiently or something--because there are a decent quantity of roses coming  that aren't totally chewed to bits. New pest I have noticed: a tiny red beetle eating the salvia and bee balm. Not cool.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 22, 2013)

I get little red lilly beetle on my lilies and on my fritillaries. They are very sensitive to any sort of motion and instantly drop off whatever they are on. If you can get your hand under them they drop straight into it, but touch the stalk and they are on the ground and gone.

My first strawberries are ripening and my first cucumber is almost there, as is my first chili.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 22, 2013)

Semi-gratuitous peony shot! Plus mock cherry leaves, coral bells, and writerly props to make it all seem relevant.


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## Leyline (Jun 23, 2013)

*OK, I can't resist anymore*

Lying!

At impossible distances!




*aaaaand....deep breath.*


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jun 23, 2013)

Lying? Er no? They're real peonies...

What is that whooshing sound?


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## Leyline (Jun 23, 2013)

lasm said:


> Lying? Er no? They're real peonies...
> 
> What is that whooshing sound?



*There was set before me a mighty hill,
And long days I climbed
Through regions of snow.
When I had before me the summit-view,
It seemed that my labour
Had been to see gardens
Lying at impossible distances.*

-- Stephen Crane, _The Black Rider & Other Lines_


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## Pandora (Nov 17, 2013)

Oh the Kitty in the cabbage :love_heart: and the scorpion :eek2:  ...
great thread!

I was walking alone through the garden late yesterday, never really alone, the lady dogs and my birds
and other backyard friends keep me company. Most everything was nipped by the hard freeze last week.
The deep purple and bright yellow mums though still peek color from under fallen leaves. The Nandina,
 their berries almost a crimson red now, will last through winter bringing a great holiday feel to my outside.
The one by the kitchen window will sport strands of green twinkling lights in a couple weeks.

The Camellia are ready to bloom big red, pink and white flowers through the cold months, they are
the saving grace of the winter garden. Gone to rest now, the lilies, jasmine, gardenia, roses, hydrangea,
iris, all the little faces I love. Oh speaking of faces, I'm late with the pansies! Can't forget to pot them
this week, my winter smiles.

Best part of a winter garden is knowing spring will be along soon bringing all my favorite friends return. 
I love the constant of nature, it's like a beautiful clock ticking with our hearts. Oh, the gifts we are given.


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## Winston (Apr 14, 2014)

Pandora said:


> ...Best part of a winter garden is knowing spring will be along soon bringing all my favorite friends return.
> I love the constant of nature, it's like a beautiful clock ticking with our hearts. Oh, the gifts we are given.



Well, it's Spring (at least here in The Northern Hemisphere).  Time to stop being an observer, and get yer behinds moving!  I don't know if anyone wants to share their current status, successes or set-backs... but I'll start.

First off, the chickens are back in full production.  They took their seasonal hiatus from late November to about mid February.  Not only do they provide us with yummy brown eggs, but they help process most of green vegetable waste we generate (with the exception of potato greens, DO NOT feed them those).

Speaking of potatoes, I wanted to get them in early.  Our growing season here in the Pacific NW USA is just long enough to get two crops out, if we start early. I prepped some seed potatoes and was ready to sow them, but the bed is already sprouting a bunch of "volunteer" potatoes.  It turns out I didn't clear out last season's crop nearly enough.  Well, at least that was easy. 

Also, last year's spinach is has hung on tenaciously and propagated.  We just had to yank the durn weeds out.  But we had to be careful.  The weeds were aromatic, but we couldn't quite place the smell.  We soon figured out that we had cilantro growing between the spinach and weeds.  Bonus! 

I sowed a lot fewer carrot and turnip seeds this time around.  It turns out that we just can't eat, and give away, enough of them.  The chickens will peck at them, and actually our dog likes the carrots.  He also likes laying in our soft, cool, fertile planting beds.  At least the mangy mutt keeps the raccoons away from the chickens.

Did we plant less zucchini?  Oh yes.  As far as I'm concerned, their only useful purpose is 100 yard reactive rifle targets.  My son is looking forward to hitting one with a hollow point in a few months.  He's "The Zucchini Slayer". They make quite a mess, in the garden and on the range.  But my wife likes them... *sigh*.

Of course, timing is everything.  I just saw on the news that snow was forecast in some areas.  Here, we just had a few days of warm, dry weather.  The ground was moist, and by the grace of God, full of earthworms.  I've watered this year's crop for the last couple of days, but now some mid-spring rain is on the way.

Oh, and our berries bushes and apple tree are both blossoming.  I've got a new dehydrator, and later this year I'll be drying every apple that my wife doesn't turn into pie filling.

Good luck to you all.  Now, as a wise man (David Allan Coe) once said, "Get a little dirt on your hands".


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## PiP (Apr 14, 2014)

Hi Winston, I love this time of year and enjoyed reading your update  You mention zucchini. I we call these courgettes in the UK. what I'd give to be able to grow these *sigh* It's not through want of trying, mind.They start off well and the develop blossom end rot!  Any ideas... ?  So if you've got any going spare  We also have cilantro growing as weeds...and mint! I've given up growing veg from seed and now buy plugs from the local farmers market which means I can stagger the crops to keep pace with demand. I'm never sure what grows when or how so I tend to watch what the old Portuguese grow in their hortas. Nothing fancy just simple veg. Works well. I'd love to keep chickens but hubby says we travel too much and they would be a pain in the but for our friends to look after. ho ho..  Off to water all the veg now...


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## Winston (Apr 14, 2014)

_...They start off well and the develop blossom end rot!  Any ideas... ? _

We discovered last year that while most of the garden enjoys a healthy watering, we were getting fungus on the Zuch's very large leaves.  It seems they weren't drying out properly between waterings.  The only solution we could think of is placing the Zucchini in more constant sun, and watering less.  Your climate is different, of course.  And if I could economically ship you our excess, believe me, it'd be my pleasure.

BTW, chickens require much less care than you think.  A properly set-up feeder and water system and your chickens are good for at least a few days.  It's just always good to pull their eggs frequently.  In a worst case scenario, if an egg breaks and a chicken eats some, the figure out their eggs are food.  Not good.


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## PiP (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks, Winston. So really it's all to do with how you water and not getting the water on the leaves.... right.  I've just watered my baby zuchs and I now have one less plant to worry about - the pigging snails have eaten it!

Do chickens attract rats?


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## Gargh (Apr 14, 2014)

PiP said:


> Do chickens attract rats?



No, but the feed does! Hungry foxes on the other hand... :shock:

I'm moving house this year so there's no point doing anything but maintenance. I'll have to garden vicariously so I'm glad this thread's up and running again.


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## Ariel (Apr 14, 2014)

Our tulips are up and blooming beautifully.  They're so cheerful.  Somebody picked a dozen yesterday morning and we're quite upset about it.

The rest of our garden we're afraid may have washed away.  The day after we planted everything we had a nasty storm.  This morning we had snow!


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## Pandora (Apr 14, 2014)

Winston, I learned much from your post I  enjoyed, I can picture.  Hi Pip! mmmm cilantro and mint! add a little basil. 
I like to cuddle it all in my hands as I walk through the garden, the smell stays, sweet! I'm a herb and flower girl,
 everyone is waking up in the garden! Noticed today two large iris snuck up on me, heavens, the size of my hand,
 a gentle blue purple. Waiting on the deep dark royal to arrive, so soft, usually hundreds of blooms to thrill.

I'll post some pics when we get rolling, the knock out roses almost ready to go. I love this world!


PS . . . someone took in a rooster nearby my home. We are in a subdivision of acre lots. He sounds a bit sickly. 
He's going at it now, I just think awww poor guy. He cocka-doodle-doos a lot but it's more like a hoarse scream. ) :


I joked a few weeks back I wanted to strangle him but I didn't, I swear! I hope nobody else did :shock:


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## PiP (Apr 14, 2014)

Pandora said:


> I joked a few weeks back I wanted to strangle him but I didn't, I swear! I hope nobody else did :shock:



We believe you LOL


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## Pandora (Apr 14, 2014)

amsawtell said:


> Our tulips are up and blooming beautifully.  They're so cheerful.  Somebody picked a dozen yesterday morning and we're quite upset about it.
> 
> The rest of our garden we're afraid may have washed away.  The day after we planted everything we had a nasty storm. This morning we had snow!


That is unbelievable someone stole your tulips! How underhanded is that. Tulip bulbs are laid down here each year, 
they won't return to their beauty of the past year. It is expensive and much work but oh so rewarding. We are enjoying them here, 
my daughter especially, lively colorful cheerful as you say. Im sorry about that and the storm perhaps getting the rest. 
Oh and snow! it is crazy weather!


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## Ariel (Apr 14, 2014)

If it was a little girl on her way to church I don't mind so much but I have a feeling it was my sneaky neighbors across the street.  (Okay, I just don't like them.  I want to blame them).

Miss and I bought them for Fella's birthday last August at Sam's Club.  I think I spent $20 for 100 red tulip bulbs.  Well worth it.  Miss and Fella got to spend a day together digging in the dirt last fall to plant them.  She was so excited this weekend when they bloomed.


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## Winston (Apr 14, 2014)

Pandora said:


> PS . . . someone took in a rooster nearby my home. We are in a subdivision of acre lots. He sounds a bit sickly.
> He's going at it now, I just think awww poor guy. He cocka-doodle-doos a lot but it's more like a hoarse scream. ) :
> 
> 
> I joked a few weeks back I wanted to strangle him but I didn't, I swear! I hope nobody else did :shock:



Most jurisdictions have laws regarding owning roosters in city limits.  Unless you're breeding, there's just no need.  And it's just plain rude.  Sorry you have to deal with that.

amsawtel, sorry about your bad weather luck, and lousy neighbors.  We planted daffodils along our driveway and no one messes with them.  Tulip's plain jane sisters, I suppose.


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## Olly Buckle (Apr 15, 2014)

I once lived in a little Victorian two up two down near Streatham common railway station. There was an eighteen inch strip of dirt between the front window and the pavement and I dug it over and put in three pelargoniums. When I came down next morning I had one and two holes. I tried to tell myself someone appreciated them, but I know they probably sold them


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## Ariel (Apr 15, 2014)

I love daffodils.  Ours are in the fenced part of the yard so no one messes with those.  They're quite pretty.

We're keeping our fingers crossed that this cold snap and the rain hasn't killed all our plants.


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## Winston (May 26, 2014)

Update:  
The bees, our little pollinating friends, are back!  Good to see 'em.  We'll be buying a tub of ladybugs in the next week or two for aphid control.  
The weather hasn't been ideal, but everything is at least growing.  The stuff we sowed from seed took a while.  
Just picked some fresh cilantro for our lime & pepper chicken grill.  It smells soooooo good.
The strawberries are taking off out front, threating to choke off the herb garden.  Good problem to have, I suppose.  The blueberries and gooseberries are budding, as well as the apple tree.  

I hope you all are fighting the good fight and will soon reap what you sow.  Including those flower thieves.  I'm thinking hot tar & feathers for them.
Anyway, good luck, all.


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## Pandora (May 26, 2014)

I finally got my pot of cilantro going. I love it too, really makes mexican night. We have tons of cherry tomatoes too, big ones, yum! Made some steak and chicken nachos with left overs, covered them in fresh off the vine cherry tomatoes, sweet!

Best news is my gardenia, huge this year, should see the blossoms opening in a couple weeks. We are a little behind this year, that's ok, anticipation is great and it all lasts a little longer. First round of roses coming to an end, irises have come and gone, next up  . . . lilies all color combos!  Then the pretty perennials, ah, life is good :smile:


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## Winston (May 26, 2014)

Pandora said:


> ... ah, life is good :smile:



Yes, yes it is.  And a garden helps us see that.  Beauty, life, renewal.  We tend the garden, and it nourishes our bodies and souls.
And Pandora, you should try grilling chicken with cilantro, lime and pepper.  Pico de gallio garnish on a bed of shredded Romaine. 
I just wish we could grow limes up here.


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## Pandora (May 27, 2014)

I will! Sounds really nummy, thanks Winston.


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## Deleted member 49710 (May 27, 2014)

Yay, the gardening thread! 

This year I am doing a bunch of peppers (6 varieties) and tomatoes (9 varieties) and many herbs as usual, plus various experiments, including:
- a pumpkin (the Rouge Vif d'Etampes variety, because French) - normally I'm too stingy with space for these, but the area I usually use for spinach and beets got slightly dog-befouled and I decided I didn't want to eat anything directly from that soil this year (we have since fixed the fence). So I decided to try this. It's good to switch around what you plant anyway, right?
- potatoes - some we'd bought to eat were sprouting, so I thought what the heck, cut them up and planted them. They are leafing out and we'll see what happens.
- Olly, I will have to dig up your essay on this, I am trying to start a rose bush from a cutting. Up north of my city there are many wild woodland roses that I think are beautiful (plus they get nice big hips) and they must be cold-hardy enough, so I took a branch off one and first just stuck it in water, then I learned of the mason jar method and I'm trying that with a smaller piece of it. 
- I just read something about growing ginger and think I might have to try it.

In other flower news, my jack-in-the-pulpit has blossomed regally (ministerially? reverentially?) and my virgin's-bower clematis has begun a quest for world domination.


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## Kepharel (May 27, 2014)

My garden is going through a bit of a rough time at the mo'.  The lawns have been killed off as they no longer qualify for such a definition of the term.  I am waiting for new turf to be delivered and laid for a brand new start.  I made a point of feeding the Rhododendrons this year and got a small blooming reward.  Why I try to grow acid loving plants on a lime based soil is down to my own bloody mindedness about what plants I love.  I would have thought I had learned my lesson with Meconopsis Sheldonii but I keep buying them and the crowns keep rotting off in our wet winters.  Each year I try, and each year I fail.  On the upside, my Bobby James Rose continues to shower the arbour with a snowstorm of white once each summer, but the rest of my hybrids and Old English moan and whinge with black spot and rust at the slightest excuse should I be even a week overdue with their chemical douche.  The race is on with my remaining years and the trees and shrubs maturing in time for me to enjoy them.  The wife insisted on on planting Cornus Controversa Variegata this year, but we'll never live to tell the tale.  An apartment with a few pots seems more appealing as each year passes.  I think I love the idea of gardening more now than the actual deed.


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## Pandora (May 27, 2014)

I googled to see Kepharel, thank you! I love blue flowers, how lovely those are. I believe I have a white bush much like that Cornus and the Bobby James roses are so beautiful, what a combination with the yellow throat. White roses I do not own yet . . . 

My hubby said the same though, so hard to keep up on it all now. He has a very nasty case of poison something on his wrists, the only exposed part of him working over a week ago in the English Ivy. Blister boils the size of my thumbs, he has made two trips to the doctor. He is weary with it to say the least. 

I might have to sneak a white rose into the garden this weekend while he is off to OKC,  I'm sure he will never notice and when he does it will be just too pretty O


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