# Contemporary Romance.  Age difference, what is acceptable?



## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 3, 2022)

Ok so, I am getting close to finishing the second book of my three book series, before I send it to my Beta readers.  I always run stuff by my mum first (as she is my harshest critic, not just of my writing but with pretty much everything I do with my life - but I still love her to bits of course).   

We spoke briefly about two of the secondary characters in Book Two that become main characters in Book Three.  The age difference between the two characters in my third book has come into question.  The FMC is nineteen and the MMC is twenty eight.

Personally, I think as we get older, the gap closes but as she's still classed as a 'teen', do you think this gap is a bit too wide?  

I still have time to save this as even though these characters are mentioned in the second book, there is no reveal in respect of their ages until the third book (which is only in the planning phase.  I've hashed a couple of chapters out, but they are pretty crap at the minute - I think I wrote them after one too many glasses of wine ).

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

“When you truly love someone, age doesn’t matter. Whether it’s a difference of 2 years or 30 years, love is love.” — Unknown

M J x


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## Ladyserpentine (Nov 3, 2022)

This type of age gap has been portrayed in plenty of books and movies, but I frankly feel like it is unrealistic. Generally, the young female is portrayed as far more mature than her age. (Though I won't discount the possibility that I was an exceptionally immature teenager...)

Nonetheless, if I were reading this, I would be, for lack of a better term -grossed out- by that age difference, only because the female is still a teenager. Her brain hasn't fully matured. The mentality of someone that young is so different compared to that of a twenty eight year old. Not to mention the lasting power of this relationship: she still has so much growing to do! By the time that nineteen year old turns twenty eight, she will likely be a very different person.

Additionally, it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which a twenty eight year old man would be dating a nineteen year old girl and not be using his additional (literally 50% more) life experience to take advantage or manipulate her in some ways.

Bear in mind that my husband and I have a ten year age gap(35 and 45); it isn't the age difference that gives me pause. It's just that she's a teenager. As you said, age gaps tend to matter less as we get older.

When you love someone, age doesn't matter, but I think the relationship you've described does not have much potential to last or be healthy.

I hope you do not take this harsh viewpoint too much to heart! As I mentioned, there are many examples of successful books and movies with love interests in these age ranges, so if you wish to completely ignore my opinion, I doubt it will impugn the success of your endeavor. I do wish you the best of luck in your writing!


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 3, 2022)

Ladyserpentine said:


> This type of age gap has been portrayed in plenty of books and movies, but I frankly feel like it is unrealistic. Generally, the young female is portrayed as far more mature than her age. (Though I won't discount the possibility that I was an exceptionally immature teenager...)
> 
> Nonetheless, if I were reading this, I would be, for lack of a better term -grossed out- by that age difference, only because the female is still a teenager. Her brain hasn't fully matured. The mentality of someone that young is so different compared to that of a twenty eight year old. Not to mention the lasting power of this relationship: she still has so much growing to do! By the time that nineteen year old turns twenty eight, she will likely be a very different person.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this detailed and interesting response. I posted this question with the sole purpose of attracting strong opinion on this subject. The whole ‘he’s too old for you’, conversation, is one that most of us females have had at some point with our parents. Thank you again, I take constructive comments in my stride. You have to be a sponge as a writer and soak everything up. Knowledge is power and all that.

M J x


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## Ladyserpentine (Nov 3, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> I posted this question with the sole purpose of attracting strong opinion on this subject.


I am glad that my unfettered opinion has not sent you running for the hills! A part of me always dies a little bit inside when I provide feedback that, if taken, would cause any sort of rewrite. (Though it is of some comfort that you say there is not much mention of ages just yet.) In any case, I do hope that your post attracts other strong, and possibly conflicting opinions so that you have a solid basis on which to make your decision!


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 3, 2022)

Ladyserpentine said:


> I am glad that my unfettered opinion has not sent you running for the hills! A part of me always dies a little bit inside when I provide feedback that, if taken, would cause any sort of rewrite. (Though it is of some comfort that you say there is not much mention of ages just yet.) In any case, I do hope that your post attracts other strong, and possibly conflicting opinions so that you have a solid basis on which to make your decision!


⭐️ x


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## JBF (Nov 3, 2022)

I'm probably not the one to ask, but I wouldn't sweat it too much - though a _lot _of the squick factor is going to depend on the circumstances, culture, and era.  

My chief MC winds up with a girl who's nineteen when they meet (he's twenty-four at the time).  Though the life-experience gap is pretty significant, there are other factors at work, some of which highlight that _both _of them have been through some pretty rough times, and each sees in the other certain attributes beyond the physical.  They work well together because each is punching within their own weight class, and if they aren't an over-the-top love story for the ages, they're both committed and they're both pretty grounded in their expectations.  

_Her _parents had a twelve-year difference in age, with similar circumstances.


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## Non Serviam (Nov 4, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> The FMC is nineteen and the MMC is twenty eight.



Creepy, with a dash of squick.  Keep that ratio only if you want to explore some difficult stuff.


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## Explosia (Nov 4, 2022)

When you get beyond the "age of consent" issue when it comes to age gaps, I think the biggest thing to consider is whether or not the age gape would cause a kind of power imbalance. 

For example, a young girl, 19, who doesn't have a lot of life experience could be easily manipulated by a man who is just about to hit his 30s and knows way more about how to navigate people than she does. This could ultimately become unhealthy... Would she start relying on him for things, as though he's an authority figure? Would he start to control her as though she were a teenager that needed curfews, etc.? The near-30 year old man would have the "upper hand" in the relationship, so to speak. She probably wouldn't have as much an equal footing when it came to decisions, like finances, bills, car/house ownership, etc. 

If she were maybe 25, she'd have a stronger footing with more life experience. And you can start to see how this projects further into later ages. A woman who is 45 has plenty of life experience, probably roughly just as much as a man of 55. You can see how the dynamic would be much more equal that way. 

So, personally, I think 19 is too young for her. She's really still a child, in truth. And the 28 year old man... well... he could take advantage of her way too easily in that sense, I'd say.


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## impr (Nov 4, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> The FMC is nineteen and the MMC is twenty eight.


If you choose to proceed with this age difference, it does give some opportunities to explore *why* they are a good fit for each other in spite of that. Wide age differences in period romances aren't only more accepted because they were more common at that time, they are also more accepted because the characters motivations for marriage were different. In a context where it was very difficult to achieve financial and social stability as a woman alone, finding a man who could offer those things was very appealing and older men were more likely to have achieved stability already. While I am assuming you would have mentioned if this were a period romance, perhaps your modern era FMC has specific backstory reasons for highly valuing stability or feeling like she would not be able to achieve it on her own? Alternatively, you could explore how age does not always correlate directly to life experience or maturity. By nineteen my life experience included having lived independently for four years and living more or less home-alone for the majority of the two years before that. A twenty eight year old who still lives in his parents' basement or has had parental support through college +/- grad school might still not have that same life experience in spite of having lived longer. At nineteen most of the people I spent time with (friends, acquaintances, and partner) were all in their upper 20s. Other teens made me pretty uncomfortable because I couldn't relate to their life experiences and they couldn't relate to mine.


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## Joker (Nov 4, 2022)

impr said:


> If you choose to proceed with this age difference, it does give some opportunities to explore *why* they are a good fit for each other in spite of that. Wide age differences in period romances aren't only more accepted because they were more common at that time, they are also more accepted because the characters motivations for marriage were different. In a context where it was very difficult to achieve financial and social stability as a woman alone, finding a man who could offer those things was very appealing and older men were more likely to have achieved stability already. While I am assuming you would have mentioned if this were a period romance, perhaps your modern era FMC has specific backstory reasons for highly valuing stability or feeling like she would not be able to achieve it on her own? Alternatively, you could explore how age does not always correlate directly to life experience or maturity. By nineteen my life experience included having lived independently for four years and living more or less home-alone for the majority of the two years before that. A twenty eight year old who still lives in his parents' basement or has had parental support through college +/- grad school might still not have that same life experience in spite of having lived longer. At nineteen most of the people I spent time with (friends, acquaintances, and partner) were all in their upper 20s. Other teens made me pretty uncomfortable because I couldn't relate to their life experiences and they couldn't relate to mine.



Right. My secondary protagonist is a 20 year old woman, and she would not fit in with a lot of people her age. Didn't go to college, definitely didn't party in her teen years, spent her whole life nose-deep in books and work.


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## Lawless (Nov 4, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> The FMC is nineteen and the MMC is twenty eight.


Absolutely normal as far as I am concerned.


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 4, 2022)

impr said:


> If you choose to proceed with this age difference, it does give some opportunities to explore *why* they are a good fit for each other in spite of that. Wide age differences in period romances aren't only more accepted because they were more common at that time, they are also more accepted because the characters motivations for marriage were different. In a context where it was very difficult to achieve financial and social stability as a woman alone, finding a man who could offer those things was very appealing and older men were more likely to have achieved stability already. While I am assuming you would have mentioned if this were a period romance, perhaps your modern era FMC has specific backstory reasons for highly valuing stability or feeling like she would not be able to achieve it on her own? Alternatively, you could explore how age does not always correlate directly to life experience or maturity. By nineteen my life experience included having lived independently for four years and living more or less home-alone for the majority of the two years before that. A twenty eight year old who still lives in his parents' basement or has had parental support through college +/- grad school might still not have that same life experience in spite of having lived longer. At nineteen most of the people I spent time with (friends, acquaintances, and partner) were all in their upper 20s. Other teens made me pretty uncomfortable because I couldn't relate to their life experiences and they couldn't relate to mine.


Some excellent points thank you and I totally agree with you.  Our life experiences and how we manage these mold us into who we become (and we are all, no matter what the age, developing based on what life throws at us and our experiences moving forwards).  I have met women in their late teens and early twenties that are more independent/capable/well-rounded than some guys in their mid-to late twenties (and as you say, still live with their parents).

This is a modern day romance, and the FMC in question has lived a fairly independent life, she is also extremely capable for her age.  However, I am thinking I may close the gap slightly as the story isn't really focused on their age difference.  I don't want the reader getting too wrapped up in that and it take away from my plot!

Thanks to everyone, some great, interesting and helpful views here, as always.

Happy Friday night people!  Well, it's Friday night here in the UK anyway   .  And that means it's wine-o'-clock!

M J x


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## Cornelius Coburn (Nov 5, 2022)

Deleted


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## Joker (Nov 7, 2022)

You know, this thread is actually convincing me to bump up my secondary protagonist up to 22. Not because there's a massive age difference between her and her eventual love interest (he's mid-20s), but just for the sheer life experience.


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## ehbowen (Nov 7, 2022)

My father was 29 and my mom had just turned 20 when they first met.

They married six weeks later.

That was 60 years ago this last April.


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## Mullanphy (Nov 7, 2022)

May-December romances exist in fiction and in life. I knew a man in his late 20's ties who waited patiently for his 17 year-old girl friend to graduate from high school so they could get hitched. They did. We lost contact, so I have no idea if it lasted. I cannot think of a title that contains this trope, but I've heard others say they've read them.

I also knew a rich widow in her 60's who married a man 1/3rd her age. They divorced then remarried. They've both passed on and the world is not a better place for it.

Another example is a 70+ year-old man I met here in St Louis who traveled to Vietnam for a 26 year-old bride. As soon as she'd been in the U.S. the minimum five years so she could remain here, she divorced him.

There was an 11 year age gap between my Mother and Father, and they remained married through thick and thin until Mom passed away. Dad stuck around for another ten years before passing from the ravages of Alzheimer's.

If there is to be no focus on the age difference, perhaps alluding to it once or twice would be enough, or don't even bring it up. Maybe concentrating on the target audience and characters' motivation for the relationship would be a better way to decide whether or not to even have an age difference between the love interests. However, portraying relationships in which one partner has not reached their majority (legal age) is frowned upon and many might consider it pornography with or without sexual or erotic intimacy, so that type of relationship should probably be avoided.


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 7, 2022)

ehbowen said:


> My father was 29 and my mom had just turned 20 when they first met.
> 
> They married six weeks later.
> 
> ...


That's so lovely.  Thank you for sharing.

M J x


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## Moon Child (Nov 7, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> Ok so, I am getting close to finishing the second book of my three book series, before I send it to my Beta readers.  I always run stuff by my mum first (as she is my harshest critic, not just of my writing but with pretty much everything I do with my life - but I still love her to bits of course).
> 
> We spoke briefly about two of the secondary characters in Book Two that become main characters in Book Three.  The age difference between the two characters in my third book has come into question.  The FMC is nineteen and the MMC is twenty eight.
> 
> ...


Depends where you're from. I'm in England, here we stop being teenagers at 18. So at age 19 people are full adults.

From my own experience, there's nothing wrong with it. I was 19 when I lost my cherry to a 43 year old!  too much age difference in hindsight, but, what the hell?


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## Joker (Nov 7, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> Depends where you're from. I'm in England, here we stop being teenagers at 18. So at age 19 people are full adults.



Tsk... some people stay teenagers their whole lives - or just plain children.


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 7, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> Depends where you're from. I'm in England, here we stop being teenagers at 18. So at age 19 people are full adults.
> 
> From my own experience, there's nothing wrong with it. I was 19 when I lost my cherry to a 43 year old!  too much age difference in hindsight, but, what the hell?


19 and 43, wowzer!

Love it!

 

M J x


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## Moon Child (Nov 7, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> 19 and 43, wowzer!
> 
> Love it!
> 
> ...


Lol  My parents didn't but nevermind!  was years ago! I'm 36 now. 

And I wish I read your quote thingie before  we're both Brits!  ❤


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## NajaNoir (Nov 12, 2022)

I see nothing wrong with this, it's all in the way it is written and the circumstance surrounding them. If it's lust at first sight, I won't believe it'll last. 

One of my favorite love stories, "Seeking A Friend For The End Of The World," features a couple with a fairly decent age gap, approximately 15+. They meet under doomed circumstances then become the love of each other's life. She says that she wished they could have met sooner, he tells her it wouldn't have happened any other way. He's right, nor would it have been believable, but the circumstances surrounding their love story made it believable. So, context matters a lot.

In "Harold and Maude,"  the age difference was quite extreme, she's 79 and he is 18/19. Each of them, quirky and misunderstood by everyone else, finds in the other exactly what they need. The story proves that age is just a number. Oftentimes, I find what begins as a friendship and then blossoms, a lot more believable than a raunchy tale.  

If you have doubts about it, others might too. Perhaps revisit the situation after taking a look at other romances with an age gap. Then reassess your characters. All in all though, the suggested age gap isn't that extreme in my opinion.


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## Llyralen (Nov 12, 2022)

I agree with most of what has been written. 

Why write this gap?  
I heard at Harvard they have a division who study adolescence “age 14 to 27”. Everyone has quirks and erotic niches probably that have to do with their experiences or whatever BUT I always think there is this special age to protect.  Unfair power dynamics can hamper progression of development of self and the real-life dangers in it are actually fact if you use divorce statistics to extrapolate an idea. Not to get too tangental, but rate of divorce go way down if a woman marries when over the age of 26. The same studies do not show the same dependence on male age. If a man wants a long-term relationship that lasts, he should look for someone who is confident and experienced that she knows exactly what she wants and over age 26 was the information I took from that study. Over that age with an age gap is no big deal if she wants someone older at that point, as long as it is her own decision with a mature and self-reliant mind.

The early 20’s are a sacred time for young people to do their own thing with young people who are more equal in experience and place and goals in life and aren’t making demands that most benefit the one taking advantage of an age gap. I feel that men (or women) who impinge on this delicate “getting to know self” time can be taking advantage.

Haven’t we SEEN this play out in real life when someone 30 who had been through divorce and is a difficult man or not very socially apt, in general, wants to mold a wife to his liking and convince a woman to love him and who can he convince?  Someone 18-19! They get divorced 3 years later with a kid when she gets wise to him being controlling and that she actually doesn’t like him at all.  I can’t say 100% but the man you would pick at 19 is a different guy than the guy you pick at age 26 if you have that exploration time. She should have been at college, she never got to be a young adult calling all her own shots, unhampered. I don’t find that healthy or sexy, actully.

So, again… why?  

On the other hand… Harold and Maud is really fun and I hope Harold was over age 26….It seemed like he was calling his shots without pressure at any rate. As said, I don’t mind a 28 and 38 year old getting together, that’s their brain-matured and experienced choice. Not that there can’t be imbalances in other areas to  watch out for.


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## Moon Child (Nov 13, 2022)

Llyralen said:


> I agree with most of what has been written.
> 
> Why write this gap?
> I heard at Harvard they have a division who study adolescence “age 14 to 27”. Everyone has quirks and erotic niches probably that have to do with their experiences or whatever BUT I always think there is this special age to protect.  Unfair power dynamics can hamper progression of development of self and the real-life dangers in it are actually fact if you use divorce statistics to extrapolate an idea. Not to get too tangental, but rate of divorce go way down if a woman marries when over the age of 26. The same studies do not show the same dependence on male age. If a man wants a long-term relationship that lasts, he should look for someone who is confident and experienced that she knows exactly what she wants and over age 26 was the information I took from that study. Over that age with an age gap is no big deal if she wants someone older at that point, as long as it is her own decision with a mature and self-reliant mind.
> ...



Real life rarely works out in that ideal though.
 For myself, I turned 21 then a week later became a full time carer to my parents; one with MS and one with early onset dementia. A role that only ended after parents passed; one in 2019 the other in 2020. I was 32 then. 
For others it might be they had sex but wound up pregnant and wanted the baby. Others may have to raise siblings. Or there's those in the care system who get chucked out on their own at 18. 

Life is brutal and it's only the lucky ones who get the ideal of exploring life, themselves etc. Most have responsibility. Or need to make money. It's not fair, but it is life.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 13, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> Ok so, I am getting close to finishing the second book of my three book series, before I send it to my Beta readers.  I always run stuff by my mum first (as she is my harshest critic, not just of my writing but with pretty much everything I do with my life - but I still love her to bits of course).
> 
> We spoke briefly about two of the secondary characters in Book Two that become main characters in Book Three.  The age difference between the two characters in my third book has come into question.  The FMC is nineteen and the MMC is twenty eight.
> 
> ...



In real life, my wife in 13 years older than me.  (Although up to recently, if you saw us together, you'd swear up and down I was the older of the two).


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## Moon Child (Nov 13, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> In real life, my wife in 13 years older than me.  (Although up to recently, if you saw us together, you'd swear up and down I was the older of the two).


That's great!  There's just something about an older woman 

my parents had 15 years between them, mum was 56 when she passed in 2019 and dad was 71 when he passed in 2020.  A few years ago I was engaged to be married to a man 15 years my senior.


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## Matchu (Nov 13, 2022)

any thread that mentions Harold & Maude gets my backing, official sponsorship $$$$.  I’ve been forgetting to say HM ‘my favourite film!’ for a few years now…so this helps me to remember to say H&M ‘my favourite film!’ when situation arises.  It’s ‘my favourite film’ not ‘Bridge Too Far’ & ‘The Superman ll Godfather’ any longer.

personally - with ageing process and my disfigurements and my teeth bleeding, being married also, I must mention that and appearing horrible visually, the ‘sexy stuff’/ the flutter of eyelids, brush of an index finger upon cheek stuff, perhaps breath shared in a room type situations - they only arise within my older brackets, more your 50 to death demographic sexywise.  More invisible to anybody under 49 years of age although tendency to confuse young women with my daughter has been troublesome.  If the lottery win emerges I will reconsider all perspectives, of course.


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## TerraLiga (Nov 13, 2022)

It's interesting reading these comments, mostly from males, that automatically want to project vulnerability on this female character simply because her age ends in 'teen'. That doesn't give her any credit at all that she may have a very mature and strong character - or even be pretty much normal (for a Brit) and be very comfortable making her own decisions and being respected for it.

I partly understand why this is, being a father to a 14-year old daughter, but at age 19 she's old enough to make her own way and live with the consequences - whether good or bad. A young adult is exactly that.

The fact is, she's less than a year away from twenty, and then she'll be in the same decade as her boyfriend. Where's the big deal in that?


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 13, 2022)

Thanks everyone, there are some great points on here.

M J x


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## Llyralen (Nov 13, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> Real life rarely works out in that ideal though.
> For myself, I turned 21 then a week later became a full time carer to my parents; one with MS and one with early onset dementia. A role that only ended after parents passed; one in 2019 the other in 2020. I was 32 then.
> For others it might be they had sex but wound up pregnant and wanted the baby. Others may have to raise siblings. Or there's those in the care system who get chucked out on their own at 18.
> 
> Life is brutal and it's only the lucky ones who get the ideal of exploring life, themselves etc. Most have responsibility. Or need to make money. It's not fair, but it is life.



I didn’t realize I was emphasizing choices that some people don’t get to choose.  My arguement is to maximize freedom of choice wherever possible. Sometimes the only choice is to choose a situation that narrows your choices further, unfortunately. So freedom of choice is an ideal, but maturing and getting to know your own mind during your 20’s is inevitable no matter what situation you are in.

I guess I can see how what I’ve said emphasized opportunities some people don’t get, but really the thing I’m saying is that we know what we want better when our minds have matured — doing whatever activities we are doing during that formative age in whatever circumstances we are in — and life is hard enough without people taking advantage of power discrepancies.   

Your post makes me think of the handful of friends and acquaintances I have whose choices were so narrow in the Philippines that they became mail-order brides. They seem to make the best decisions they can inside of the constructs (sometimes horrible constructs) they are in. Are they mature and understand what they want after age 26-27?  Yes!  But is their freedom seriously constricted because of being taken advantage of and their circumstances?  Yes. I am only advocating for the opposite where possible. My point isn’t whether or not constriction of freedom happens for whatever reasons, but my point is that we should advocate to maximize freedom where possible by allowing people as much freedom of choice as possible.  The girls whose partners allow them more freedom are much happier than those whose lives are basically slavery, so I’d be telling the men who took advantage of these girls’ situations that.  It’s just— yeah— life is not ideal, maybe this conversation is more important because life now is not ideal and more people need to be aware of maturing brains and advocate for freedom in general.  

I’m sure in your situation you made the right choice to help and learned your mind through that time like we do and if you were a heroin in a book, I’d think at 30 you would be ready to make all the choices you possibly could to live life deliberately.


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## Llyralen (Nov 13, 2022)

TerraLiga said:


> It's interesting reading these comments, mostly from males, that automatically want to project vulnerability on this female character simply because her age ends in 'teen'. That doesn't give her any credit at all that she may have a very mature and strong character - or even be pretty much normal (for a Brit) and be very comfortable making her own decisions and being respected for it.
> 
> I partly understand why this is, being a father to a 14-year old daughter, but at age 19 she's old enough to make her own way and live with the consequences - whether good or bad. A young adult is exactly that.
> 
> The fact is, she's less than a year away from twenty, and then she'll be in the same decade as her boyfriend. Where's the big deal in that?



You don’t see the power difference?  The still-maturing mind?  You bring up culture, that’s an interesting aspect.


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## TerraLiga (Nov 13, 2022)

Llyralen said:


> You don’t see the power difference?  The still-maturing mind?  You bring up culture, that’s an interesting aspect.


Why would you automatically assume that the male holds power over the female? I know plenty of young males (under 30) who have very little self-esteem or any strength of character at all. My daughter is 14 and she often puts me in my place. People are individuals. You are colouring this situation with your experience and I with mine.


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## Moon Child (Nov 13, 2022)

Llyralen said:


> I didn’t realize I was emphasizing choices that some people don’t get to choose.  My arguement is to maximize freedom of choice wherever possible. Sometimes the only choice is to choose a situation that narrows your choices further, unfortunately. So freedom of choice is an ideal, but maturing and getting to know your own mind during your 20’s is inevitable no matter what situation you are in.
> 
> I guess I can see how what I’ve said emphasized opportunities some people don’t get, but really the thing I’m saying is that we know what we want better when our minds have matured — doing whatever activities we are doing during that formative age in whatever circumstances we are in — and life is hard enough without people taking advantage of power discrepancies.
> 
> ...



Wow.. So, if someone who's 18 - 25 falls in love it has to be with a person who's the same age? That's incredibly narrow minded of you! 

Love is Love, age, gender, religion etc don't come into play at all. Love is the most wonderful thing in the universe and you've just basically said that anyone below 26 have to be mollycuddled! 

That's absurd! Yes, people grow and mature. It's life, that's happened for milenia and will continue as long as there is sentient life on this planet. It's through experiences with a partner that we grow as individuals. That's how it works!


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## Llyralen (Nov 13, 2022)

TerraLiga said:


> Why would you automatically assume that the male holds power over the female? I know plenty of young males (under 30) who have very little self-esteem or any strength of character at all. My daughter is 14 and she often puts me in my place. People are individuals. You are colouring this situation with your experience and I with mine.


Well, my posts allude to some science that I could post if you’re interested, but besides me just alluding to a few studies, my view is reflective of what I’ve witnessed, of course. 


I do see that age at that age can be one power difference.  There are other power differences that can occur simultaneously and I’m not excluding those in my views in general, but this thread was specifically discussing age gap.

Assertive will is not the same as maturity in my opinion. Let’s say that assertiveness of mind even went as far as being able to manipulate others, just to take The scenario as far as it will go. Ability to manipulate at a young age can happen, but that is not maturity and being able to manipulate because of the minds of those around you let you, wouldn’t be seen as healthy in my mind and also would show a failure on the part of those around her.  Going back to just healthy assertiveness, I doubt a young person who wants to keep their autonomy who have the means to make decisions for themselves would want the power to explore. Or what do you see? 

Why would a young 19 year old woman of strong mind (at least she thinks it is strong, it’s likely also changing and developing) want to be with an older male with weaker mind and will?   Is that the scenario you are setting up?  What other power dynamics are at play if so.  This might be an interesting story to explore all of this. Lol.


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## Llyralen (Nov 13, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> Wow.. So, if someone who's 18 - 25 falls in love it has to be with a person who's the same age? That's incredibly narrow minded of you!
> 
> Love is Love, age, gender, religion etc don't come into play at all. Love is the most wonderful thing in the universe and you've just basically said that anyone below 26 have to be mollycuddled!
> 
> That's absurd! Yes, people grow and mature. It's life, that's happened for milenia and will continue as long as there is sentient life on this planet. It's through experiences with a partner that we grow as individuals. That's how it works!


Kind of?  Lol. It’s kind of funny the way you see what I said.  

 I’m just saying people are still maturing before age 27 giving areas where power dynamics in age gaps happen, which I think is hard to argue with. 

I’d love to discuss specific situations you see playing out with you and see what we both would think. There could be some situations where somehow the partners are more even, I guess. Or where it seems less dramatic than other situations to me.  Sometimes people get lucky to make the right choices for them when younger.

You don’t think power dynamics in age gaps with this maturing age group either?


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## ehbowen (Nov 13, 2022)

Llyralen said:


> Kind of?  Lol. It’s kind of funny the way you see what I said.
> 
> I’m just saying people are still maturing before age 27 giving areas where power dynamics in age gaps happen, which I think is hard to argue with...


So, then, if a young lady is not capable of making adult decisions at 18, what should the legal age of majority be changed to, in your opinion?


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## Moon Child (Nov 13, 2022)

Llyralen said:


> Kind of?  Lol. It’s kind of funny the way you see what I said.
> 
> I’m just saying people are still maturing before age 27 giving areas where power dynamics in age gaps happen, which I think is hard to argue with.
> 
> ...


I'd rather not have a discussion with you. You're very narrow minded about this. 

In terms of power dynamics that's bullshit. Any one can be an arsehole and it doesn't matter the age. Anyone can be nice at whatever age. You could be 37 and meat a person who wants to control you etc. You could meet someone at 18 who doesn't. Life, and especially Love, do not fit into neat little boxes like you seem to be suggesting. 

It's down to a person whether at 18 they decide to date someone older and they know their own damn mind. Youth has fallacy, but so does every age. There's some 90 year old out there who's currently laughing at themself at age 24. It's how it should be and to state you don't believe anyone should have an age gap because they're not a certain age is utterly ridiculous.


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## Moon Child (Nov 13, 2022)

ehbowen said:


> So, then, if a young lady is not capable of making adult decisions at 18, what should the legal age of majority be changed to, in your opinion?


I Love you right now lol!  Exactly!


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## TerraLiga (Nov 13, 2022)

The question was about an age gap between two legal adults. Posters to this question have assumed A LOT about this relationship, and the capacity of the female. We don't know anything about these fictitious characters, so assuming anything other than their ages is supposition and answering questions that were not asked.


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## Moon Child (Nov 13, 2022)

TerraLiga said:


> The question was about an age gap between two legal adults. Posters to this question have assumed A LOT about this relationship, and the capacity of the female. We don't know anything about these fictitious characters, so assuming anything other than their ages is supposition and answering questions that were not asked.


Agreed! I think the discussion is over. It was, as you said, two legal adults who are only made up.


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## Llyralen (Nov 13, 2022)

ehbowen said:


> So, then, if a young lady is not capable of making adult decisions at 18, what should the legal age of majority be changed to, in your opinion?


Okay, this now is all getting taken out of context because what I’m advocating for is freedom in choices for this age group without extra pressure.

I think if I didn’t see age-gap as somewhat predatory for this age group, then this question would be in context.  So I guess if people dont SEEnthe danger and if we aren’t really talking about that part, the power-dynamic part, then this question is a good one.  But I’m not wanting to take choice away from young adults, I want to ensure that it is there….. 

A talk about what unequal power-balance is like needs to be in place here for any of this conversation to make sense, I think.


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## Llyralen (Nov 13, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> I'd rather not have a discussion with you. You're very narrow minded about this.
> 
> In terms of power dynamics that's bullshit. Any one can be an arsehole and it doesn't matter the age. Anyone can be nice at whatever age. You could be 37 and meat a person who wants to control you etc. You could meet someone at 18 who doesn't. Life, and especially Love, do not fit into neat little boxes like you seem to be suggesting.
> 
> It's down to a person whether at 18 they decide to date someone older and they know their own damn mind. Youth has fallacy, but so does every age. There's some 90 year old out there who's currently laughing at themself at age 24. It's how it should be and to state you don't believe anyone should have an age gap because they're not a certain age is utterly ridiculous.


Okay, so take what you’re saying and think of a 12 year old.  Is it ridiculous to think there is no power dynamic problem if a 30 year old is trying to sleep with her.  What I’m saying is, treat the early 20s with care. I think it is a time when power dynamics can definitely still happen.

I think we all can draw a line, I think the law draws a line, just where does that line get drawn?  This is all I’m saying.

I mean if you don’t believe that there is a line or that power dynamics happen at all, that’s your right, but this is a very complex issue.  It’s not a “love knows no bounds” issue.  I also think I’m very open minded, but In my job Ive worked over the years closely with over 10,000 pregnant women and Ive seen and heard of all their relationships and how they worked out.  I just really do not like an age gap for this age of 18-23 women is not very fair to them and their situations if they can possibly help it… for women younger than 18 I’m very protective.  But I’m just protective of young women too and do see that older men can be predatory.   That’s my thoughts!   I’m done.


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 13, 2022)

LOL, you guys!!!


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## Matchu (Nov 13, 2022)

Pitch

Deleted. Too fresh material inflammatory


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 13, 2022)

<gets on 9000 pounds of silent bright orange death and leaves thread>


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 13, 2022)

Loving it!  

M J x


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## ehbowen (Nov 13, 2022)

Llyralen said:


> Okay, this now is all getting taken out of context because what I’m advocating for is freedom in choices for this age group without extra pressure.
> 
> I think if I didn’t see age-gap as somewhat predatory for this age group, then this question would be in context.  So I guess if people dont SEE the danger and if we aren’t really talking about that part, the power-dynamic part, then this question is a good one.  But I’m not wanting to take choice away from young adults, I want to ensure that it is there…..
> 
> A talk about what unequal power-balance is like needs to be in place here for any of this conversation to make sense, I think.


And what I'm advocating for is that our society prepare our up-and-coming adults to, you know, adult.

Loretta Lynn married at the age of 15; the marriage was stormy (to say the least) but nonetheless lasted until his death nearly fifty years later. In the movie _It's A Wonderful Life_ George Bailey has a job...a responsible job, handling money...at the age of twelve years old. It used to be common for those who recognized that they were not college material to leave school and enter an apprenticeship after 8th grade at age 14.

I see your position as yet another instance of childhood being artificially extended. We're schizophrenic as a society on the subject anyhow. You can vote, enlist in the military, or sign a binding contract at 18...but you can't purchase alcohol or tobacco until 21, and you can ride your parents' health insurance (USA) until 25? Now the position is advanced that one cannot be trusted to decide on a life partner until 27? Why not 37, or 47?

Look, I get it that an 18 year old still has a lot to learn. That's why we have...drum roll...PARENTS. And uncles, aunts, cousins, and friends of the family. They need to step up, mentor, and advise as was done traditionally...and the youngsters need to look to the wisdom of age when exercising their new responsibilities to make sound decisions. "Junior Knows Best" has been such an overdone theme in literature and cinema that it's become a trope.

I mentioned up-thread that my mom & dad married at 20 and 28. That didn't happen in a vacuum. Yes, mom was a full-fledged adult with an office job and an apartment...but she also had a mother (Grandpa was no longer with us at the time). Mom introduced my soon-to-be Dad to Grandma and the rest of the family and obtained an enthusiastic approval. The fact that Mom & Dad eloped was due more to spare my widowed Grandma's finances than from any attempt to escape parental authority.

George Bailey had a real job at age 12 in (a fictitious) 1919. I would say that in this and related areas 1919 was way ahead of 2022.


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## Joker (Nov 14, 2022)

ehbowen said:


> You can vote, enlist in the military, or sign a binding contract at 18...but you can't purchase alcohol or tobacco until 21



Remember, 18 year olds can sent to Iraq to be shot at, but their uncle can't buy them a beer when they come home. 

How fucked is that?


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## Moon Child (Nov 14, 2022)

Joker said:


> Remember, 18 year olds can sent to Iraq to be shot at, but their uncle can't buy them a beer when they come home.
> 
> How fucked is that?


That's only in America!  in the UK it's much different

Age 16: legally leave school, legally work full time, legally have sex, legally drink alcohol with a meal in a restaurant when accompanied by an adult, legally can buy a lottery ticket. With parental consent a 16 year old can legally enlist to armed services, move out and even get married! 

At 18, in the uk, you are a full adult so no parental consent required. You can gamble, you can get married, enlist, buy alcohol, own a car, make a will, buy tobacco, open your own bank account, get a tattoo. 

At 21 you can adopt a child, drive a lorry, apply for a licence to drive a plane.


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## Joker (Nov 14, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> That's only in America!  in the UK it's much different
> 
> Age 16: legally leave school, legally work full time, legally have sex, legally drink alcohol with a meal in a restaurant when accompanied by an adult, legally can buy a lottery ticket. With parental consent a 16 year old can legally enlist to armed services, move out and even get married!
> 
> ...



I think y'all are _born _with a beer in hand.


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## Moon Child (Nov 14, 2022)

Joker said:


> I think y'all are _born _with a beer in hand.


That's only you lot!  I much prefer a nice chardonnay!


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 14, 2022)

Joker said:


> I think y'all are _born _with a beer in hand.



Beer?

someone say Beer? 

<drives 9000 pounds of silent bright orange death back into the thread>


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## Explosia (Nov 14, 2022)

Here's an anecdote that some people might find interesting... or creepy. 

About two years ago, my mom became friends (temporarily) with a 30 year old woman who recently had a baby. The father of the baby was 17. Keep in mind, after 9 months of pregnancy, that means this guy was actually 16 when she was 29 and fooling around with him. 

Where I live, 16 is the age of consent. So, because my mom was in contact with these two, I got to meet them in person and they hung around for a while. By my observation, I noticed that about 90% of the time, the 17 year old guy did basically nothing else except obey. She made all the decisions and called all the shots. He followed her wherever they went next. When their baby was taken from them by the courts, he could not even be at the hearings because he was still considered to be a minor and therefore had no legal footing. 

I think it was really sad. That kid looked to be trapped in a situation he had no control in. As far as I'm concerned, that woman was a predator. My perspective of her wasn't helped by the fact that she eventually stole my mom's credit card information either. 

All I'm saying is that if a full grown adult is starting to full around with a person that young, red flags are definitely popping up for me...


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## ehbowen (Nov 14, 2022)

Yep. A predator. Much less common among women, but they're out there. Not likely they ever applied for a marriage license. So, what's the remedy? Sex police? (Cotton Mather, where art thou?)

Now, just think about what the outcome might have been if that 16-year-old had been brought up to bring any girl he was seriously interested in home to meet mom & dad before ever getting much past first base? (For our internationals, that's American slang for early romance, nothing more intense than kissing.) Think it might have turned out different?


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 14, 2022)

So, when I first posted this question, I didn't realise how divided opinion could be on this subject.  I suppose because in the UK, we are considered adults (sexually) at 16.  I take on board most comments, others I may file away and pull out for a steer in respect of other projects.  Either way, thank you to everyone who took the time to answer and those who are very passionate about this area.   The age thing is always a tricky zone (especially when dealing with coming out of adolescence into adulthood).

This has given me a great insight and loads of ideas as to how I can shape my story.

Giving you all a huge thank you kiss.  From adult to adult of course    .

M J x


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## TerraLiga (Nov 14, 2022)

Relationships are one side, but what about much rarer marriages? I copied this from Wiki. This only relates to the USA. Buckle up.

Unchained At Last, the only non-profit advocacy group dedicated to ending child marriage in the United States, found that only 14% of the child marriages conducted from 2000 to 2010 were between two children marrying each other.[14] In most cases, child marriages are between a minor and an adult.[29] In terms of spousal age, the majority of those surveyed, about 60%, reported being 18–20 years old. Less than 3% reported being over 29 years of age.[32] In over 400 cases, the adult was aged over 40. And in 31 cases, they were over 60.

According to data compiled by Anjali Tsui, Dan Nolan, and Chris Amico, who looked at almost 200,000 cases of child marriage from 2000-2015:

67% of the children were aged 17.
29% of the children were aged 16.
4% of the children were aged 15.
Less than 1% of the children were aged 14 and under.
There were 51 cases of 13-year-olds getting married, and 6 cases of 12-year-olds getting married.[32]
Extreme examples include a case in 2010 in Idaho, where a 65-year-old man married a 17-year-old girl. In Alabama, a 74-year-old man married a 14-year-old girl, though the state has since raised its minimum age to 16.[32] According to Unchained At Last, the youngest girls to marry in 2000–2010 were three 10-year-old girls in Tennessee who married men aged 24, 25, and 31 in 2001. The youngest boy to marry was an 11-year-old, also in Tennessee, who married a 27-year-old woman in 2006.[14]

Critics have pointed out that laws regarding child marriage in the United States compare unfavorably to laws regarding child marriage in other countries. For instance, in 2017, Human Rights Watch pointed out that Afghanistan has a tougher law on child marriage than parts of the United States: in Afghanistan the minimum age of marriage is 15, and that only with permission from their father or a judge; otherwise it is 16.[63] As of that date, 25 U.S. states had no minimum marriage age at all if one or more of the grounds for exception existed; this number has continually decreased since then.[64]


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## Moon Child (Nov 14, 2022)

M J Tennant 2022 said:


> So, when I first posted this question, I didn't realise how divided opinion could be on this subject.  I suppose because in the UK, we are considered adults (sexually) at 16.



Exactly! I was quite shocked at the age laws of the US!  Just as they are with our laws!  So, guess it depends on where your reader is from as to whether they like an age gap or not. 

You're a brave soul for taking on the writing of that! And thank you, I just decided after this thread that my characters are all going to be at least 18 and legal in whatever country! 



M J Tennant 2022 said:


> Giving you all a huge thank you kiss.  From adult to adult of course    .
> 
> M J x



You're welcome and love you too!


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