# Eye of Mind



## scott777ab777 (Aug 15, 2018)

((Disclaimer: This poem most likely will only speak to those who consider themselves a theist or agnostic or a mystic.  It is steeped with imagery from many different relgious ideals. If you don't get it, don't fret over it. ))


Eye of Mind

Close thine eyes 
Stare into dark
Behold thought
Listen to sight

Kingdom of heaven
Pit of hell
Ocean no end
Swirl of images

Delve in mystery
Float in wonder
Grand light within            
Awake Sleep

Edit 1: Moved Ocean no end. S3 L3 to S2 L2  Removed Pit ever deep. S2 L2  Added Grand light within. S3 L3
Edit 2: Changed thy S1 L1 to thine.
Edit 3: Changed 
Prison of freedom
Gate of hope 
to
Kingdom of heaven
Pit of hell
Edit 4: Added a disclaimer.


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## Darkkin (Aug 15, 2018)

Interesting concept, but there is no cumulative conclusion or resoltion, let alone a single, discernible subject, other than (thy and face it, thy is an ouch...). In layman's terms there is no point with the piece, just a list of nouns and prepositions trying to sound impressive with the use of thy.  And it should be noted that unless one is a writer from the Middle Ages or is channeling the spirit of Shakespeare, never use thy or thee.  It died out of English vernacular for a very good reason, the advent of pronouns like you...

Back to the list issue, just like with an overabundance of adjectives, a poem might _look_ impressive, but when the pieces are laid out line by line there is little in the way of functional content.  In this case eight lines, two stanzas describing, (the mind).  There is a disconnect to the subject and the verb in S1.

Take this back to the drawing board, consider picking the two lines in S2 and 3, that you feel are the strongest, connect the subject to the allegory.  Take (thy) on the journey to the pit ever deep... And remember when dealing with the mind remember there are five senses, that creativity and consciousness are not a one dimensional list of obscure simile with no quantitative context.  Look into things like sesnory deprivation and actually explore the mind instead of say it is this, this, and this.  It is the journey wherein the heart of the poem truly rests.

- D.


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## scott777ab777 (Aug 15, 2018)

Sorry it is not about the MIND. If that is what you got, you did not understand the poem at all.


And 2nd.  I just happen to love the words thee thou thy and thine.

From what I was told when I was in Bible College the uses of those words are this. 
Thou - the subject of a verb.
Thee - the object of the verb.
Ye - the subject of a verb
You - the object of the verb.

A pronoun beginning with "t" is a singular pronoun: Thou, They, Thee, and Thine.
A pronoun beginning with "y" is a plural pronoun: Ye, You, Yours. 

Est - indicates second person singular (the one spoken to)
-eth indicates third person singular ( the one spoken about)
Shall 1st person with future tense.
Will 2nd or 3rd person with future tense.


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## Darkkin (Aug 15, 2018)

I'd say that says more about the writing than the reading...Not to put to fine a point on this, but hecklers at a renaissance festival would have a ball with this.  And content take and totalled with context comes up to conclusion of (thy) second person narrative within the construct of consciousness, (note the use of mind included in title), alternative context clues being what...S?, L?.  Be specific and define how *exactly* this piece is supposed to be read to derive meaning *X.  How does the context support conclusion A, if conclusion Q, derived from the cumulative definitions of the content is incorrect?  Line by line breakdown, please.  If something is wrong, how can a reader correct the incorrect reading without supportive context.* 

Remember that the reader had no insight into the author's mindset or context.  They read, what they see.  If a writer wants to say readers are reading *wrong* the writer needs to take a step back out of the fourth wall and the neutral ground of the content provided.  Readers only have the provided context, not the author's mind.  That is what critique is.  Objective observation.  Sunshine, adoration, and fawning not included.


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## scott777ab777 (Aug 15, 2018)

1st I want to say I have never done this to someone's reply till now, but...... 



Darkkin said:


> Interesting concept, but there is no cumulative conclusion or resoltion, let alone a single, discernible subject, other than (thy and face it, thy is an ouch...). - D.


I am sorry to tell you, that you did not even grasp the subject of the poem.   The subject of the poem is EYE of mind, not the MIND. 



Darkkin said:


> In layman's terms there is no point with the piece, just a list of nouns and prepositions trying to sound impressive with the use of thy.  And it should be noted that unless one is a writer from the Middle Ages or is channeling the spirit of Shakespeare, never use thy or thee.  It died out of English vernacular for a very good reason, the advent of pronouns like you...- D.


And in actuality that is quite a shame that it died out.  That is till you get people like me who read the KJB.  And love the way the words sound and flow inside my mind. 



Darkkin said:


> Back to the list issue, just like with an overabundance of adjectives, a poem might _look_ impressive, but when the pieces are laid out line by line there is little in the way of functional content.  In this case eight lines, two stanzas describing, (the mind).  There is a disconnect to the subject and the verb in S1.- D.



There is no disconnect, again you not understanding. 
Close thy eyes ..............when you close your eyes or at least for me what happens.  IT GOES dark.
Stare into dark ................so now your staring into the dark. YES i left out the "THE" on purpose. 
Behold thought .................now your left to your thoughts... but lo and behold I can see my thoughts. 
Listen to sight .................... and hear the images that flow through my mind.  

BUT WHAT IS THE BEHOLDER????????????????? WHAT SEES???????????????????? The Eye of the Mind. 

Prison of freedom.... the eye of the mind is both a place that is a prison and a place that gives you all freedom
Gate of hope ............... it is where hope comes from
Pit ever deep  ........yeah i didn't like pit here....  but i couldn't think of an alternate image for pit ever deep.  The eye of the mind is like boundless with no end. 
Swirl of images..... they come and go so fast.

Delve in mystery..............if you dwell upon it all its a mystery it is.
Float in wonder................you have to be in awe of it all
Ocean no end................ darn it.. that is the same as pit ever deep.  DARN IT.... 
Awake Sleep ......... but the eye of the mind is with you awake or when sleeping. 


Darkkin said:


> Take this back to the drawing board, consider picking the two lines in S2 and 3, that you feel are the strongest, connect the subject to the allegory.  Take (thy) on the journey to the pit ever deep... And remember when dealing with the mind remember there are five senses, that creativity and consciousness are not a one dimensional list of obscure simile with no quantitative context.  Look into things like sesnory deprivation and actually explore the mind instead of say it is this, this, and this.  It is the journey wherein the heart of the poem truly rests.- D.



I don't see where i need to take this back to the drawing board at all except for S3 L3 because it is the exact same thing.  Ocean no end = Pit ever deep


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## scott777ab777 (Aug 15, 2018)

I think I am going to change Ocean no end ... to ... Grand light within.


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## ned (Aug 15, 2018)

hello - close thine eyes - form of thy before a vowel - and sounds so much nicer.....

but this poem seems to state the obvious (it's dark when you close your eyes, thoughts come with images etc) 
or resort to abstractions - that lack any real meaning and, ironically, any insight.

have fun with the language, be brave - perhaps swap things around to make it more interesting...

does - Gate of freedom, Prison of hope - say any more or less?

forget expressing contradictions for effect - say something honest and surprising.

just my thoughts.............................Ned


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## Darkkin (Aug 15, 2018)

The eye of the mind is an inherent construct of the mind as a whole, so no it is not the subject.  The mind, the consciousness is the subject as the 'eye' is the idiom used to describe the construct of the intangible.  It is the senses that come into play and yet, not one of them is actually engaged.  Sound, touch, smell, taste...All function when the eyes are closed, all are heightened and none of that is reflected in abstract, and as the narrator is addressing (thy) currently known as (you) the reader is allowed to let their consciousness wander, and more importantly question bland statements of contradictions.  A negates B, thusly the sum is reduced to zero.  The author is addressing (thy, you), the reader has a right to say, this doesn't work because the author cancelled out what as said on preposition before.   Thusly, was the effort worth the reader's time when every line cancels out?  Total sum sit there with your eyes closed.  Impressive is it not?  To those who like philosophy, maybe...Those with basic reasoning skills, hmm...Use my senses or deny their imput and follow narrator A blindly, when nothing actually happens.


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## scott777ab777 (Aug 15, 2018)

ned said:


> hello - close thine eyes - form of thy before a vowel - and sounds so much nicer.....
> 
> but this poem seems to state the obvious (it's dark when you close your eyes, thoughts come with images etc)
> or resort to abstractions - that lack any real meaning and, ironically, any insight.
> ...





Hey Ned I do have a question for you.  After you comment on this line ..."Prison of freedom," I must agree that I really do not like that line all that much. 
How would you word that keeping both together but keeping it short.  Think of it like this.  The eye of the mind is both a prison and a place that no one can take from you and allows those who are imprisoned to have freedom even though they are in a real prison.   I can't think of anything to keep them together and express that.

Prison or Freedom  ick

what do you think about 
Captive or free
Captive of freedom
Prison of the free



Gah banging my head on a wall over this...................


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## Firemajic (Aug 15, 2018)

scott777ab777 said:


> Eye of Mind
> 
> Close thine eyes
> Stare into dark
> ...



Darkkin covered many of the issues I have with THIS poem, and your other poem..

Now, I do not have a problem with the poetic use of "Thee, thou and thine"... because those words create a "Mood/Tone"....

I have a problem with vague statements such as these:
Float in wonder
Grand light within
swirl of images
gate of hope

I WANT to understand your message/ thoughts... YOU WANT your reader to connect with your message... to understand your message.... 
I would love for you to be BOLD.. believe in your own message! 

remember:
Imagery
Mood
poetic language
movement.... both in rhythm and moving your poem from point A to B to C and on to the conclusion of your message...


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## scott777ab777 (Aug 15, 2018)

Darkkin said:


> The eye of the mind is an inherent construct of the mind as a whole, so no it is not the subject.  The mind, the consciousness is the subject as the 'eye' is the idiom used to describe the construct of the intangible.  It is the senses that come into play and yet, not one of them is actually engaged.  Sound, touch, smell, taste...All function when the eyes are closed, all are heightened and none of that is reflected in abstract, and as the narrator is addressing (thy) currently known as (you) the reader is allowed to let their consciousness wander, and more importantly question bland statements of contradictions.  A negates B, thusly the sum is reduced to zero.  The author is addressing (thy, you), the reader has a right to say, this doesn't work because the author cancelled out what as said on preposition before.   Thusly, was the effort worth the reader's time when every line cancels out?  Total sum sit there with your eyes closed.  Impressive is it not?  To those who like philosophy, maybe...Those with basic reasoning skills, hmm...Use my senses or deny their imput and follow narrator A blindly, when nothing actually happens.





See that is where we will have to disagree Darkkin... I am aware of being aware and I am aware of being aware of being aware, and then again on top that over and over when i dwell upon it.   So the subject is NOT the MIND as a whole, but the beholder or the EYE of the mind.  I didn't think many would understand this poem personally. But it is steeped with mysticism ideals.  A buddahist probably would get what I am saying on 1st read.   I understand what your saying, but it is more of a poem for those who would consider themselves an agnostic or a theist.   I do not see any atheist understanding what I am talking about.   And, no I am not saying your an atheist. 

Think of this. 
Close your eyes.
And in your mind say "hello"
Can you hear the word?
If so, 
what or who is the speaker?
and 
what or who is the listener?
that inner deep IT is what i am refering to.
Past your normal senses: of touch, smell, sight, hearing, and taste. 
It is something past the dream state.
But it is akin to where dreams arise from. 
I dwelt long and hard in meditation and found in my mind this area.
Look at an eye. 
3 main circles. 
the white circle
the iris circle
the pupil circle.

A circle within a circle within a circle.
The same is with the eye of the mind. 
It is a part of your awareness that you can locate with your mind, and be aware of its location in your mind, then on top of that realize that there is even a smaller part that you can be aware of that I call the eye of the mind.  For me, my eye of the mind would be like in the front part of the mind(1st circle) and in the front part of deep awareness (2nd circle).  Like when you move your eye up as if you are going to try to look at your eyebrows.   Each circle is at the front part of the other. 

I am not trying to DEFEND what I wrote... I just don't think you get it at all.


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## scott777ab777 (Aug 15, 2018)

Firemajic said:


> Darkkin covered many of the issues I have with THIS poem, and your other poem..
> 
> Now, I do not have a problem with the poetic use of "Thee, thou and thine"... because those words create a "Mood/Tone"....
> 
> ...



I think I understand what you two are saying. But for this poem I am just going to have to disagree with both of you.  
I wrote this because I couldn't sleep. The thoughts were driving me crazy, so I wrote them down, and then was able to sleep. 

Sorry poem stands as is as it is now. 

Thanks for the comments.


EDIT
PS.  If you want to really understand that poem read this book:  the untethered soul the journey beyound yourself. By: Michael A. Singer


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## Firemajic (Aug 15, 2018)

There is absolutely NO need to apologize for sticking to your poetic guns, you have every right, and should defend you POV and your poem... a critique is simply an opinion, a microscope for you to look through, into the mind of your reader...


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## Darkkin (Aug 15, 2018)

You support your conclusions.  That says a lot.  Many writers don't take time to consider the why.  You have every right to disagree, but you've kept focus on the work.  Kudos on that.  You believe in a piece, argue for it.  The credibility that lends a writer is huge.  Good discussion.  

-D.


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## jenthepen (Aug 17, 2018)

scott777ab777 said:


> Hey Ned I do have a question for you.  After you comment on this line ..."Prison of freedom," I must agree that I really do not like that line all that much.
> How would you word that keeping both together but keeping it short.  Think of it like this.  The eye of the mind is both a prison and a place that no one can take from you and allows those who are imprisoned to have freedom even though they are in a real prison.   I can't think of anything to keep them together and express that.
> 
> Prison or Freedom  ick
> ...



Hi, scott. I'm not replying for Ned but your agonising over the words interests me. I've experienced the feelings and thoughts that your poem describes and so was able to understand the meaning at once. For me, the choice of words would be part of the experience. Any changes would come at the direction of considered thought which originates in a different place, outside of the feelings that prompted this work in the first place.

I'd also allow the poem to stand on its own merit. Trying to explain its meaning and origin debases the emotion that sprang from the experience. If it has different meaning for others, so be it. That is the nature of consciousness.

jen


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## love4life (Aug 18, 2018)

Great poem, keep up the good work


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