# Would this legally count as police coercion in this case?



## ironpony (Jul 6, 2016)

For my story, it's a crime thriller where these killers have an untraceable website (or at least not traceable yet to the authorities), and they use it show their acts of terrorism, killing off their kidnap victims for the world to see.  They wear masks in the videos, and their voices are scrambled of course.  Their latest victim in the plot is a cop who was working for them as a mole, but they ended up having to kill him, once he decided he wanted out of the organization.   No one else besides the gang, knew he was a mole though, and everyone thought he was an honest cop.

Other cops who are friends of his, are tired of seeing the gang keep on getting away with it, and when their fellow cop friend is now the next victim they have had enough.  A few of them decide to get together to get revenge on the gang, one way or another.

The gang finds out that a vengeful mob of cops are after them for revenge.  I haven't figured out how they found out yet, but there are ways.  Perhaps the cops have failed and are coming after the gang again, so the gang is expecting another attempt on them.

The gang decides gives in and decides that the only way to deflect the cops revenge, is too prove to them that their dead friend was a mole working for them.  Cause if the cops find out that their friend was a mole, working with these killers, they will be so disgusted by the friend's wrongdoing, that they will not want avenge him likely.  This is the gang's hope, to deflect their desire for revenge.

So the gang decides to make another video to upload to their sight with proof that the cop was a mole.  They hope that the vengeful cops will see it, and change their minds and think that their friend is not worth risking their lives then.  And they wear masks and scramble their voices again as well, while offering proof on the mole.

But as the gang gathering all the proof they can get on the mole, and shooting the video, the police get an anonymous tip, of where the gang is and that they are making a video, trying to prove that the dead cop was a mole.  The tipper also gives specifics of the evidence that the gang currently has in their possession, while making the video.

The police then alert officers to the scene, see that it appears to be the scene, and the building has been broken into.  I was told by a cop that because of this, the police can get warrant to search.  The tipper's information is not enough to get one, on it's own, but that accompanied with the break in, is enough, to search for the evidence that the tipper specifically described.

The police get their warrant, go in, and catch the gang making the video, with evidence of the dead cop being a mole.  They want to use this evidence against the gang, to build a case, and do more searches for evidence of course.

However, would they legally be allowed to use the evidence on the dead cop being a mole, in court?   The reason why the gang gathered the proof to make a video, was because they believed their lives were in danger of a rogue group of cops who wanted revenge on them.

So if a honest cops are tipped off to the evidence, can it still be used, if the only reason why the evidence was at the scene, was because the suspects were using it to defend themselves from other revenge seeking officers?


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## Ultraroel (Jul 6, 2016)

Okay

1. Undercover is usally something thats kep secret, his friends will have no idea about it most likely.
2. Revenge doesn't care about the law.
3. How will they connect a bunch of cops to this guy they killed, they didn't know he was undercover?
4. If cops know he was undercover, they expected him to have things they wouldnt have. How incriminating can it be..?
5. Why aren't the cops just taking them down, guns blazing, without leaving any signs of their presence, could make it look gang-related. 

Why is there a long winding legal part. It seems, the least interesting part. 
Also, pick a country where this is allowed an its fine..


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## Sleepwriter (Jul 6, 2016)

once the first gang member gets the snot beat out of him or killed by a cop, it will be pretty obvious to the rest that something's amiss.


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## ironpony (Jul 6, 2016)

Yeah I could do something like that.



Ultraroel said:


> Okay
> 
> 1. Undercover is usally something thats kep secret, his friends will have no idea about it most likely.
> 2. Revenge doesn't care about the law.
> ...



To answer the questions

1.  I am confused.  Who is undercover now?  The dead cop?  He was never undercover.  He is a corrupt cop, who is working for the gang and is a mole for them.  Is that what you mean?
2. Even though revenge doesn't care about the law, they still want to take the villains down in a way, in which they will not go to jail.  The cops want revenge but they do not want to go to jail and leave their friends a nd loved ones behind in the process.
3 and 4.  The cop was not undercover, but actually a member of the gang, and participated in real illegal activity.
5.  The cops could take them down guns blazing, but they would have to get a bunch of illegal untraceable guns.  Wouldn't it be better to create the appearance of a police self defense situation and create an arrest situation, and make it look like the opened fire on the police, and the police shot back?  That way, they do not have to go out of their way to get all these illegal untraceable guns and all that.


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## Sleepwriter (Jul 6, 2016)

The only way for guns to be untraceable is to remove the serial numbers from them, but then you have ballistic matching, which can be used to verify which gun was used to kill which victim provided an intact round can be found.   Most criminals don't bother with filing down serial numbers, cause they stole the gun or bought/ traded it from someone who did.    The cops could easily acquire guns that don't belong to them.  they also don't have to shoot the gang members,  a good 'ol Louisville Slugger will change a person's perspective after a couple swings.


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## ironpony (Jul 6, 2016)

Yeah that's true.  So you think that framing the gang, and arranging for the police find evidence on them is a waste of time then, compared to murdering them all?


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## Sleepwriter (Jul 6, 2016)

Thats up to you,  not my story.  All comes to how you write.


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## ironpony (Jul 6, 2016)

Okay then, thanks.

But would the above scenario legally fly in court?   If suspects did things to incriminate themselves in past crimes, can the police use that evidence, if the only reason why the suspects incriminated themselves, was because they were trying to avoid having revenge put on them, by a small group of vengeful cops?  Would that count as coerced incrimination?


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