# When is it appropriate to scrap a story?



## ShadowEyes (Sep 15, 2014)

I have a work-in-progress that is only 25k words into it. Perhaps half-way through, perhaps a third. I could envision myself in the future cutting out the beginning 15K words. Yet, here I am, at a roadblock. The story has been dead in the water for weeks now. The characters are caricatures of what they once were. The plot is uncertain, the history choppy (due to stops and starts), and I'm not sure if I should go on. (1) I should clarify that this is my first serious attempt at a novel, and so I am dismayed that it's coming out in shambles.

However, I've also been told that no story goes to waste. If it's scrapped here, then it may show up elsewhere. But then again, it might nag me until I finish it, word-by-torturous-word. Diana Wynne Jones says that if she is bored with a story, she stops. Stephen King says that he would have stopped three-quarters through _The Stand_ had he not been 400K (I think) words into it. (2)

I can probably assume that continuing to completion is the Best Possible Outcome, while Never Finishing Any Story is the worst. (3)

General questions:  (1)  When is it appropriate (if ever) to set a story aside? (2)  How often might a practiced author allow this to happen? (3)  What are the costs/benefits of doing so?

A little verbose, but I thank anyone who takes the time to read this.

EDIT:  Incredibly shy and embarrassed.


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## EmmaSohan (Sep 16, 2014)

Do you like your story? Is there anything you really like about your story so far?


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## ShadowEyes (Sep 16, 2014)

EmmaSohan said:


> Do you like your story? Is there anything you really like about your story so far?



(Aiy, I really ought to be sleeping, but of course this keeps me up. Thanks for the reply. I will try my best to answer.)

Perhaps I should start by saying that I find particular things about the story appealing. The way one character's magic works, some of the dialogue, a certain scene of description, a lovely plot device.

I find the in-between to be the hardest part because I am, by far, a seat-of-your-pantser. So a problem that I have is that some of the story gets muddled and confusing with bouts of inspiration. I like to think of inspiration as kind of a mania (not everyone may agree). The inspiration afflicts me, and I write without thinking of the consequences. So some characters end up being magical unbalanced (little limitations). Some characters are inconsistent. Some scenes are unnecessary and contradictory. The plot is vague and long-winded.

So when I write without consistency, the story falls to the wayside in favor of tropes, cliches, and a slow pace to figure out where I am. I do not have a list of "cool parts" of the story to shoot for. And then I focus on all of the negatives and how much trouble the story's giving me. I understand that I probably ought to write every day, but even so, if the story is not fun to write, it probably isn't fun to read. And when I've lost curiosity, then it feels like Game Over.

As an example, look at how I explain things:  kind of rambly, wandering, and out-of-focus.


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## popsprocket (Sep 16, 2014)

I've scrapped plenty of books around the 20k mark. One went down in flames at 45k. It's less the word count that makes a novel worth persevering with, and more about how far off being good it is.

I _do _believe in giving due effort to anything you start, I _don't_ believe in writing it when I feel that continuing will be a tortuous waste of time. 

If you like the story then you might try a rewrite from the start.

All in all though, it doesn't really surprise me that you're struggling with your first novel. You seem to be at a point where you can recognise the flaws but don't necessarily know what you're doing wrong. The only solution for that is to keep writing. Even if you finish this book it'll be unpublishable, if only because you will have improved so much over the course of writing it that the first half and the second half might as well be different books.

Consider carefully how much you want to finish the story, and shelve it if you have other ideas to occupy yourself with. It's like they say when taking tests in school: if you can't answer a question then move on. You won't get any better than you are now by spinning on a stalled manuscript.


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## Nemesis (Sep 16, 2014)

If it makes you feel anybetter shadow, I just recently made the descision to scrap my modern/dark fantasy novel that I've spent that last decade planning. I was little more than 12k in thanks to constant rewrites and plot changes, but eventually I came to the realization that the world I created was overly complicated, outdated, and, in many ways, cliche filled.

It was a painful realization, but once I accepted that it was no longer feasible I dropped it, then came up with a new idea to take its place


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## Sam (Sep 16, 2014)

I've never scrapped a novel. I've scrapped a few short stories, after about 5k, but never a novel. There is one sitting in my 'in progress' folder at 312k and hasn't been completed, but not because I'm finished with it. I'll continue when the ending comes to me -- eventually. 

I don't think there's any set point where it becomes appropriate to scrap a story, but if I have invested the time and energy to write 50k, I'm committed to finishing it, come what may.


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## qwertyman (Sep 16, 2014)

Popspocket has it right. This is your first attempt at a novel. The reason you are becoming disheartened is you are getting better and, when you look back, you know it could bee improved upon or even totally re-written. Spike it but don't bin it. Start something else. 

Self -discipline is important.  Don't listen to people who say discipline destroys the creative flow, later maybe after book five but not now.  Write this - WTFSA - WHAT'S THE F...ING STORY ABOUT?) and stick it on your screen and apply it to every page. This has nothing to do with stifling creativity, in fact it promotes it.

Once you've committed to that you're ready to read David Mamet's letter to his screenplay writers.  http://www.slashfilm.com/a-letter-from-david-mamet-to-the-writers-of-the-unit/

Just saying,

qwerty


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## Seedy M. (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't scrap anything. A four gig memory stick will hold a library. You can always come back to it later to decide whether or not you want to continue, revise, or delete it. Write something else, something different. Give it time, then read what you had. You'll be in better frame of mind to select what was worthwhile and what needs revision or cutting. The least any such material I've saved has done was give me ideas for a new book.


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## Terry D (Sep 16, 2014)

Trust your own judgement. It's easy for me to say push on through and finish it, but you know best. Does it feel 'dead-in-the-water', or are there simply some rough patches? I have two novels in boxes (they were written on an old device called a typewriter) each about 30,000 words old. I didn't have the discipline to finish them back then. I still like both books. Now I can't imagine starting one I wouldn't finish, but I'm older and have more confidence in my writing. There's nothing inherently bad in quitting on a WIP, there is in quitting on yourself.


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## midnightpoet (Sep 16, 2014)

I'll echo what others have said - walk away for a while, work on something else.  I have three finished novels that I haven't worked on for over 10 years, but I haven't discarded them, and the experience was useful. I sent them out, publishers weren't impressed.  So I put them to the side and eventually published other projects.  But don't give up on yourself.


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## Bishop (Sep 16, 2014)

I would urge you to continue, for two reasons, both of which I fear will give readers of my posts a "broken record" feeling...

1) The discipline to finish a novel is forged through practice and regular work. I now have 3 finish novels (though, they still need some editing) and about 8 works-in-progress. 3 of these are being actively worked on, and 5 of them are "archived". The five will be finished at some later date, they're just on the back burner for now.

I can say with absolute certainty that I did not finish a novel until I finished a novel. I had no idea what it was like, what it entailed... I just sat and wrote and one day I found myself typing "the end". It was, of course, terrible. I learned that after I compared the opening chapter to the final chapter: one was decently written, the other was not. Practice and experience have more value toward this skill than anything in my experience, and by getting through the novel you get that necessary sharpening of skills. Enough so that your next novel is better. And the next is better than that. But all of my ability to power through a work, to write a novel in 60 days or less... it all comes from the push and discipline that I forced onto myself in that first novel's creation.

2) An incomplete work is nothing. Right now, you might feel down on the piece in question. It happens. Right now I hate my current WIPs. I seriously want to burn one of them. But when a work is finished, as a whole, it's very different. 

I can find faults in any major author's work. From King of Hemingway, Faulkner to Gaiman, I can find a moment, a sentence, a word... something in there that makes me roll my eyes and say, "This is supposed to be written by a master, right?" But when that book's final page turns, and I'm not looking at every microscopic word, my perception is completely different. Now, I'm gazing at a story, rather than the prose. We all have moments that aren't necessary in a work, an info dump, a description that's a paragraph too long, a cliche injected in a particular spot, a flat character or two... We all have faults that even the masters sometimes slip into their own works. But when our stories are judged as the stories they are, they're not looked at for "show versus tell" or "I really don't like the way you use pronouns", they're looked at as the story they are. And that can only be done when it's completed. And those faults can often be rooted out with editing and rewrites.


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## talmaflower (Sep 16, 2014)

I would set all the words to one side and go back to basics.  What is your story in one sentence?  

I'd be willing to take a punt that, if you were to post that sentence on here, a number of people would go, "Yep, that's definitely an idea you could make a story out of."  

Making that central idea into a novel, that's the difficult bit, and it sounds as though that's where you've come a cropper so far.

What you write sounds a bit like I feel when I even just contemplate writing a novel!

*"I find particular things about the  story appealing. The way one character's magic works, some of the  dialogue, a certain scene of description, a lovely plot device."*

Maybe grab all of this stuff and dump it into an 'good points' folder.  Stuff that isn't 'complete' as such, like the plot device, just explain, sketch out in words how it works.

*"I am, by far, a  seat-of-your-pantser. So a problem that I have is that some of the story  gets muddled and confusing with bouts of inspiration."
*
Planning, you needz it.  ;-)  Well, maybe.  Some people find they work best with minimal planning and others with lots.  To some extent it's a matter of personality and your own style, but it can also be a conscious choice to an extent.  As a total beginner myself, I find it tempting to glorify the seat-of-the-pantsness and to have a sneaky feeling that those kinds of writers are the most 'naturally talented' - but I know that's not true in the slightest.  And perhaps if you do gravitate towards the 'inspired' approach, that's all the more reason to focus _more _on the planning, not less.

I don't think planning means that you need to have everything figured out at the beginning, either.  Maybe just the occasional moment of taking stock and rounding up all the loose ends and shoving them in a box to be looked at later.
*
"I write without thinking of the  consequences."*

So think about the consequences first, and _then _write.

*"So some characters end up being magical unbalanced (little  limitations). Some characters are inconsistent."*

How about writing out some pages just about your characters; no attempt at creating a story, just describing them?  Then go through the bits you've written that you like, and highlight everywhere you think your characters are inconsistent.  Then work on fixing the inconsistencies.  Most likely, one change will lead to another change until it feels like the entire ground is shifting under the piece - but does that matter?  It might improve the whole thing!

*"Some scenes are  unnecessary and contradictory."*

Think a scene is unnecessary?  Remove it.  No need to delete - just file in a 'deleted scenes' folder.  Even if it's beautifully-written, it still has to come out.  The reader is interested in the story and characters, not in how well you can write... You might be able to adapt some of the language for use in another context, or use the whole thing in an entirely different novel.
*
"The plot is vague and long-winded."*

Back to where I started - can you summarise the gist of it in a sentence?  What _can _you summarise about it in one sentence?  What is the main _point _of it all - what does your main character learn, what do they achieve and what do you want your readers to take away?  Everything else is a means to that end and can be changed.

I doubt whether the whole idea is a dead loss.  It sounds like it needs some serious revision, but surely that is normal when working on a first draft?!  I agree though that you can't put your heart and soul into working on something unless you believe in it.  You don't have to be inspired all the time but you have to believe in your project.  Maybe you just need someone to say to you, "Hey!  That idea isn't pants at all!  Actually, it would make a really interesting novel!"  But you need to keep your main goal in sight.


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## dale (Sep 16, 2014)

i have a doc folder with a few "scrapped" stories in it. keep them for ideas, if nothing else. i read one of these old ones a couple days ago.
i hadn't wrote a word on it in a couple years. after reading it again, though.....i'm thinking i might be able to do something with it. so my advice would
be not to delete them, but just file them away.


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## Kevin (Sep 16, 2014)

Do not toss. Think of the children. Some day distant descendants will battle in court over the fortune in residuals.


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## Guy Faukes (Sep 16, 2014)

My advice is to put it aside and go outside and read. I have 30k of work from my teens on a novel concept. The story itself has changed drastically, but there are plot themes that are very interesting and will probably resurrect in some point.


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## ShadowEyes (Sep 16, 2014)

I've decided to shelve the story for now, start on something else, and when I get to where I am with the old one, I'll compare to see which one is better, and then see if the old has found any new roots.

[I realized why I was a bit upset with my story. The main problem, of course, was inconsistency. I planned on writing every day for three months like Stephen King. Then, I wanted to go back and revise the story six weeks later. But I didn't. I wrote bits and pieces, hodgepodge. And when I got distracted with new ideas, I just stuffed them into the story. I thought, "I'll iron it out later." But it became a problem then.]

On to individual replies:

*pops*:  Practical advice, particularly the last part. "Stalled" stories would probably eat up more time with dread to write a scene, with mediocre writing. Besides, the old story would probably carry me slower than something new. I might not have anything written by the time it would take me to get back up to that point.

*Nox*:  I don't think anything is ever wasted, you know? I think there's lots of excitement about the old and the new:  Diana Wynne Jones says that she re-used characters, stole people straight from real life, split them in half, and forges an emotional connection to them. I think you're probably different from who you were a decade ago, nai? And I'm infinitely glad you used the axe. Sitting on the mantelpiece, it's just a clever.

*Sam*:  Wow, that's... that's a long time, isn't it? But every story is different. Who knows? Maybe you need to wait ten years for the story to jump ten years in the future. I think as long as you're comfortable with where you are, there's no crime, right?

*qwerty*: I find post-it notes to be one of the most important inventions in my life. I will definitely follow your WTFSA advice. I agree about self-discipline. While I agree with the sentiment that stories should be dramatic, perhaps thinking about stories as words would hinder them. Ms. Jones said to "...stop thinking in _words_ and then shut your eyes and think how it would be if _you_ were the one having the adventure." Much simpler?

*Seedy*:  The most important point you made, I think, is that setting it aside puts you in "better frame of mind..." And I'm definitely not going to throw it away. I'd rip out page by page to relieve stress if anything.

*Terry*:  Dead-in-the-water. I'm always impressed by how dedicated the people on this site are. We've got lots of good people... kind-of like a second family, before I catch myself getting sentimental. I imagine I'll be happily shamed into getting things done now.

*midnight*:  Thanks. I'll try to be more Naruto and less Charlie Brown. ::tongue-in-cheek::

*Bishop*:  Holy [irreverence], you're Isaac Asimov! I bet you're surrounded by type-writers. I have to disagree, though. I think writing is more than just sitting down and writing. I can appreciate that hard work is essential. However, I think the story should be fun. I think curiousity should be the driving force towards creation. However, I would like to ask:  What is the benefit from finishing a story?
Second, one of the issues I had with writing is that my process was off. I knew what I _wanted_ to do; I just didn't do it. And maybe that's okay. Maybe that wasn't my method. Why shouldn't I try out every method, such as seriously trying to plot?  

*talma*:  Hi. I'm very glad you asked about all of this stuff. It's always fun (for me) to talk about formulas for writing. I agree. Brandon Sanderson keeps a "Cool Things" folder. When he was driving through a tunnel at night, he thought the mist looked cool at full speed, so he wrote Mistborn.
Like I said above, I might need to plan. Even Ms. Jones planned a bit. Knew the beginning, one cool part in the middle which excites her, and then the ending. ... Right, consequences. ... Well, with magic, there's an entire other system I follow. It's like a sliding scale between wondrous and defined. Gandalf is wondrous; Spiderman is defined. The more you define, the more problems you can solve with the character, but the less sense of awe the reader gets. ... What I meant about the scenes is pretty much what I said in the beginning, above the individuals. I need consistency... Everyone needs consistency! ... However, I think I'll wait for the second draft to analyse stories.  

*dale*:  If I burn them, will it release the ideas from their paper prison?

*Kevin*:  Nah, you all know it's going to WF, so that we can afford to change the color to blue.  Lol.

*Guy*:  "Everything returns later in the mix, a changed form."  ::sketchyquote::

Again, my deepest gratitude.


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## Bishop (Sep 17, 2014)

ShadowEyes said:


> *Bishop*:  Holy [irreverence], you're Isaac Asimov! I bet you're surrounded by type-writers. I have to disagree, though. I think writing is more than just sitting down and writing. I can appreciate that hard work is essential. However, I think the story should be fun. I think curiousity should be the driving force towards creation. However, I would like to ask:  What is the benefit from finishing a story?
> Second, one of the issues I had with writing is that my process was off. I knew what I _wanted_ to do; I just didn't do it. And maybe that's okay. Maybe that wasn't my method. Why shouldn't I try out every method, such as seriously trying to plot?



Heh, well, Bishop's idle hands are the devil's plaything. Understandably, people differ from my perspectives on the craft: I would certainly give plotting a try, as you may well find that is the method that works for you and gets things done. As for the benefits of finishing a story...

Well, first, there's bragging rights. Petty though it was, I remember the shallow rush of pride when I was able to tell people "Why, yes. I just finished writing my novel." People quickly shifted their view point on me, and in many ways, people just began to treat me as a writer rather than some amateur (which I still am an amateur, but don't tell them...). Next, there's the ability to begin editing. Or in my case, rewriting. Instead of a fresh novel, I've decided to go back and rewrite my first novel from beginning to end, and its coming along nicely. My writing ability changed drastically between page 1 and page 398 of that novel, and I'm a much different writer for having completed it. Now, the newer, better writer is going back and recreating that opening work so that it can be looked at for publication, or more likely, self-publication. From there, I can start publishing my second book (which is a far better book than the first, for reasons already stated) and so forth.

Lastly, and far, far most importantly: I began to take myself seriously. When I started, I thought "I'm going to write this and I'm gonna edit it, then I'm sending it off to Double Day and my millions will start rolling in!" Fevered dreams though they were, they got me to "The End". I still remember the night that I typed those words on the last page of my novel, and it remains one of the greatest moments of my life. It rivals my wedding day for importance, honestly. It was the moment I went from "wanna be writer" to "wanna be novelist". I proved to myself two things: 1) I could finish a 105K word novel. And 2) I could write at a pace as to do so within 43 days, which was how long it took me to go from the first word of the first chapter to "The End". Suddenly, I wasn't some coffee shop hipster talking about that novel he's going to finish, or some web-dwelling gamer (<--okay, I AM this half) who talks about his massive sci-fi opus that never seems to get any new words on the page. I was accomplished. I was completed. I had a full, 100% written manuscript. I'm sure there's an old saying somewhere that tells the listener 'if you did something once, you can do it again' and that's what clicked in my head the next day when I began book 2. And I did it again. And again. And I would probably not have nearly as much momentum had somewhere along the line I tripped, and fell, and didn't finish that first work.

The rush, the feeling of accomplishment is so strong. It's ineffable how powerful it really is to type those two final words onto the page. It's like an orgasm you had been working for months to reach, and the high from that feeling of completion lasts for days. You can look at your work, as a whole, and say "See? That's mine. I did that." Someone I knew once compared it to an architect looking at a building he had designed, but that's inaccurate. The architect didn't build the building. He worked with a team to create his vision. You, as a writer, are _alone_. And you did this _alone_. I'd say it's more akin to completing a marathon, where your work and only your work is what pulls you to the end, and you know it's your own accomplishment. Selfish as it might sound, it's something so gratifying I'm having trouble really explaining it... but it drives you. I went into book 2 wanting that feeling again. And again... 

Which is why I urged you to reach the finish. Maybe not on this book, but make sure you do on the next. Because it changes you.


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## Megookin (Sep 17, 2014)

If it is flat lined and looking back at it you have no clue as to why you ever started the endeavor, then it's okay to walk away. However, if you can remember why you started the project, even if you don't feel the same way now, it should held close and monitored for signs of life to return.


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## hvysmker (Sep 17, 2014)

This subject seems to be pretty well covered as is,  but I can't help putting my two cents in.


 I have subdirectory in my writing directory with about twenty story files in it at this moment. That number fluctuates wildly.  


 Whenever I get an idea, I write down at least a couple of paragraphs and save it.  Also, of course, there are those difficult stories, half finished and left languishing when the creative spark flickers out ... mostly temporarily.

Being retired and living alone in a rural part of Ohio, I have a lot of time to write.  When working on a novel, it's not uncommon to spend days on end writing, to the exclusion of eating or sleep.  A lot of the result is lousy -- the first time.  After finished comes the constant rewriting and self editing before posting on writing sites for fine  tuning.

A novel or story is never done until sold. All my older works have been  gone over at least several times as I've become more proficient.  During those periods, they sit and age ... until the next time.



 I never, ever, throw anything away, and, surprisingly, only one of those dates are more than a couple years old.  I do come back once in a while and comb through them, sometimes taking one out and finishing it.


 The one that lingered the longest was about a sentient planet named George.  He lost his entire population because of an ill-advised Roach Opera.  All but one woman named Gina.  At the time of the opera, she'd been watching the complete works  of “I love Lucy” on video and missed the Opera.


 George needed a population, so he advertised in galactic newspapers.  He was soon flooded by various groups and individuals, including a motorcycle gang composed of wild dogs, a flood of gay pink elephants, and a lone lawyer – the scourge of the universe.


 Well, I thought that story so stupid that nobody would ever read it.  One day, though, after it languished  for at least four years, I took it out, rewrote, and finished it.  On posting it on a writing site, I was surprised when a small publisher  bought it for real money.   


 Large publishers have no need to read from these sites,  but I have sold a few stories to smaller ones that found my work and liked it.  Nothing to count on, but it happens.  As far as  that goes, since I write only as a hobby, not necessarily for cash, I sometimes give a story out for free. So, sue me.


 You never know when that “trash” you save will turn into a “treasure”.  Save everything.
 Charlie


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## ShadowEyes (Sep 17, 2014)

Ah  more people replied after I finished this. Sorry, it's for Bishop...

I'm on my phone, so I can't properly reply, but I'll see what happens. All I can do is be honest. I'm a little jealous of people's ability to finish their works. But I don't begrudge them. I simply wish that there was done way to push others to see the benefits of accomplishment as a social thing. Do that it's not a club you join when you finish a novel, but someplace to urge others, like me, who are lazy and uncertain, whether about ourselves or what we want to say. And so writing is like therapy for me, in the same way that I might email someone or read a book. If I care about everyone else, writing and reading are what I keep to myself, for myself.

I also have no delusions of success. Partially because I see how long it took successful authors and how lucky they got. I walk through the bookstore, clearance aisles full of wonderfully produced works, even big name authors who can't sell their umpteenth book in a series. Public opinion is fickle and almost perverse at times. So why try to cater? I expect to sell something when I have my 9th book written...

I do appreciate your recollection of the way you centered yourself around writing, if I may call it so. You're right. There are a lot of poseurs. But they don't matter. What matters is that the story means something to me. Because everyone deserves to feel that way.

Anyway, thanks for the whack on the side of the head. I'll get to thinking.


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## altoid967 (Sep 17, 2014)

Bishop, I find that post so inspiring I'm tempted to reference it every day until I finish a project of my own. 

Shadow, I agree with the others saying to set it aside and work on something different. Personally, I would be loath to ever completely throw away something I'd written, simply because it's my creation. Don't ever trash the words you've painstakingly wrought. At the very least, keep them as a memento of where you were when you first started. There is always something to learn.


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## Bishop (Sep 17, 2014)

altoid967 said:


> Bishop, I find that post so inspiring I'm tempted to reference it every day until I finish a project of my own.



Hah! Well, you're welcome to copy it down and reference it as needed. I promise, it's one of the greatest feelings in the world when you finish the first book.


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## dale (Sep 17, 2014)

Bishop said:


> Hah! Well, you're welcome to copy it down and reference it as needed. I promise, it's one of the greatest feelings in the world when you finish the first book.



 lol. yeah. that elation lasts about a hot week, before fading to dreary frustration at the "business aspect" of it all. or at least that's the way it was for me. but of course, it will all be worth it for the "ultimate high" of hopefully someday catching manhattan's attention with something.


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## ShadowEyes (Sep 17, 2014)

dale said:


> lol. yeah. that elation lasts about a hot week, before fading to dreary frustration at the "business aspect" of it all. or at least that's the way it was for me. but of course, it will all be worth it for the "ultimate high" of hopefully someday catching manhattan's attention with something.



This really should be more of a topic of inquiry. The only one I've heard talk about the business end is Brandon Sanderson. If you look hard enough, you'll find the goods on YouTube. I digress. It's not really my nit to pick just yet, so I didn't bother to listen to him.


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## bazz cargo (Sep 17, 2014)

Hi Shads,
this is the thread that will not die...

I learn by doing.

 I'm living happily with the knowledge that my first novel, possibly all my novels will be pants. Gotta give it a try though.

Best of luck
Bazz

Slight addition, this person puts it way better than me.
http://www.writingforums.com/threads/150271-You-are-Rubbish-so-just-damn-well-admit-it


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