# E- books obsolete?



## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

So I was gazing through the vastness of the Internet, and stumbled upon this article, which says e-books will become obsolete in the term of five years (considering it's written in 2012, only three to go). Okay, author has some point e.g. DRM, but I can't say I completely agree with him. E-books have a lot of advantages over other formats, even printed books. What do you think? What would be the consequences not only for readers, but self-publishers too if e-books ceased to exist (I know it's not in the article, I'm curious)?


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## Pidgeon84 (Jul 13, 2014)

I will never not buy physical books. It's just... Nicer. I love going to the bookstore. I love that stale smell of old books. I just like holding it. Nothing against e-books. Just ain't my bag daddio.


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## InstituteMan (Jul 13, 2014)

For many and sundry reasons, I think the dude is wrong. It may be that the formats will be different, but e-books will be with us a long, long time. I am with Pidgeon, though, in thinking that we will have physical books with us a long time too.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 13, 2014)

I don't think they'll be obsolete. But I do think they'll reach their natural peak, and people will stop thinking of them as something unique and just see them as another format that allows them to read, at which point ebook sales will level out in relation to print sales.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

I agree printed books will still exist in the future, although if we become all "ecology" paper may become obsolete (if not recycled).


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## Apple Ice (Jul 13, 2014)

I hope one day physical books become obsolete. I don't understand why people put nostalgia over practicality. I personally think living forests and homes for wildlife are more important than me being able to sniff and caress some pages. I do prefer physical to E but I can't bring myself to justify it and so I don't. E-books won't become obsolete at all considering we're in the digital age and there's so much fuss over ecology as well as practicality. I think they are wonderful, and annoying, things.


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## aj47 (Jul 13, 2014)

I understand the appeal of physical books but due to my vision limitations, I much prefer e-books.

I think maybe specific devices may become obsolete -- the original Kindle for example. The e-books themselves, won't though.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 13, 2014)

I wouldn't hold my breath on print books going anywhere, especially based on ecology. Trees are a completely renewable resource, for one thing, and culling (whether cutting or burning or both) is part of maintaining a healthy forest. Not to mention that ever since computers became less cumbersome, we've been hearing about the "paperless society" - must be going on 40-50 years now - and it still hasn't happened.


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## Apple Ice (Jul 13, 2014)

We're getting ever closer to it, though. More trees/animals are better than less tress/animals, anyway. But maybe you're right about the paperless age, but here's to hoping you're not.


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## Deafmute (Jul 13, 2014)

ebooks will go the same way everything is going in the internet. Its hard to charge for what is so easy to get for free, that said if people like what they get for free money finds its way back to creators. Its similar to what happened to the music industry. People are not going to stop reading books electronically, and publishers can't stop people from pirating them, but that doesn't mean the whole industry will go belly up.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

Apple Ice said:


> I hope one day physical books become obsolete. I don't understand why people put nostalgia over practicality. I personally think living forests and homes for wildlife are more important than me being able to sniff and caress some pages. I do prefer physical to E but I can't bring myself to justify it and so I don't. E-books won't become obsolete at all considering we're in the digital age and there's so much fuss over ecology as well as practicality. I think they are wonderful, and annoying, things.



I like print too, but I like trees more. I recently read that according to some research, a tree is worth almost $ 200 000. 



astroannie said:


> I understand the appeal of physical books but due to my vision limitations, I much prefer e-books.
> 
> I think maybe specific devices may become obsolete -- the original Kindle for example. The e-books themselves, won't though.



Yeah, Kindle, Nook... I think in the future there will be an universal reader (just like computer can read different files) without limitations.



shadowwalker said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath on print books going anywhere, especially based on ecology. Trees are a completely renewable resource, for one thing, and culling (whether cutting or burning or both) is part of maintaining a healthy forest. Not to mention that ever since computers became less cumbersome, we've been hearing about the "paperless society" - must be going on 40-50 years now - and it still hasn't happened.



Tree is "renewable", but how long does it takes for a tree to grow like a previous one? 10-20 years (depending on the type of the tree), and how much oxygen could it produce if it weren't cut? Not to mention a lot of trees are cut down for no good reason. Take Christmas trees, they serve their purpose for a few weeks and then off to the garbage. I would forbid live Christmas trees, without a root. Yeah, I'm an extreme :mrgreen:


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## belthagor (Jul 13, 2014)

............and so the environment took another hit for the team, despite speech, from many people, about how e-writing and lots of things done using a computer supposedly (slowly/quickly?) saving it because of more trees and stuff. 

I know exactly why electronic books might stop existing by the way, because some people might go on a certain website and do a certain action, which I don't approve of, but it's their own decision. I buy all my books paper, except in College where they forced us to get e-books. Me being a writer, like to support good writing, I have only bought a couple of books though, and most of them were very low price.


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## LeeC (Jul 13, 2014)

Relative to what both shadowwalker and Apple Ice have said above, might I suggest that even e-books (the electronics of such) are yet another wayward path in affecting the ecology of the Earth.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

Deafmute said:


> ebooks will go the same way everything is going in the internet. Its hard to charge for what is so easy to get for free, that said if people like what they get for free money finds its way back to creators. Its similar to what happened to the music industry. People are not going to stop reading books electronically, and publishers can't stop people from pirating them, but that doesn't mean the whole industry will go belly up.



Piracy isn't a concern to me, many people said (some of them were famous writers) it actually helps their sales. My books will be DRM free, as I see it as a nonsense, download if you want, but don't present my work as yours, that's all. I think big companies will realize in the future they can't fight downloaders, and as they say: "If you can't beat them, join them", so I think accessing file is gonna be a lot easier.


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## belthagor (Jul 13, 2014)

A slightly off topic tip.

Theres a barcode on book, i think both paper and e-book. 

When you write numbers around that place, do not use the final numbers "9 0 0 0 0" This code says "No set price"

I published 1 book, about 10? people bought it from places like amazon at a cheaper price than what I set in Createspace. In short I did not receive any royalties.


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## Kevin (Jul 13, 2014)

'Tree culling'. *sigh* The industry has a long history of information control. I call it self-serving propaganda. It's been their money, their spin on what gets allowed to be taught on such things. Anyway... it doesn't matter. Book printing has little or no effect on whether or not trees get harvested.

I think the article did have some good points. A country requiring that your e-device conform to their rules in order to gain access at the expense losing all of one's pre-existing content is really asking a lot. I wouldn't do it.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

LeeC said:


> Relative to what both shadowwalker and Apple Ice have said above, might I suggest that even e-books (the electronics of such) are yet another wayward path in affecting the ecology of the Earth.



Of course. Question is; which has more impact on the ecology?


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

Kevin said:


> 'Tree culling'. *sigh* The industry has a long history of thought control. Anyway... it doesn't matter. Book printing has little or no effect on whether or not trees are harvested.



True. But stop printing books/more recycling is a start.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

belthagor said:


> A slightly off topic tip.
> 
> Theres a barcode on book, i think both paper and e-book.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry to hear that, but I didn't know you have to put a bar code, only an ISBN number :-s


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## Kevin (Jul 13, 2014)

There's plenty of sources for fiber. If they use trees at all it's because it's the least expensive. 
But getting back to the original, Australia's attempt at curtailing piracy (I assume that's what they're about) limits choices in such a way that anyone who is global (traveling between countries) would have to have separate devices linked to each limiting country's e-system. It also means I have no access to certain country's or anything the sell on-line. I could see how that would cause an alternative to gain popularity, both with vendors and consumers.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

Kevin said:


> I think the article did have some good points. A country requiring that your e-device conform to their rules in order to gain access at the expense losing all of one's pre-existing content is really asking a lot. I wouldn't do it.



That's pretty bad. I've never had to confront with that, but I wouldn't do it either.


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## movieman (Jul 13, 2014)

Schrody said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, but I didn't know you have to put a bar code, only an ISBN number :-s



Books have barcodes on the back, so stores can easily track them. Createspace, for example, will automatically generate one for your back cover, and tells you to leave that space blank for them to do so.

But the price code is really irrelevant, since the stores can charge whatever they want for the book. I presume what happened is that some third party bought books from Createspace through their 'expanded distribution' scheme which allows anyone to order the books through a distributor, then sold them on Amazon for less than the Amazon price. Since a sale direct through Amazon typically gets 2-3x the royalties of a sale through 'expanded distribution', you get less money as a result. Or, if you set the price really low, you may get no money at all.


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## Kevin (Jul 13, 2014)

I suspect that we rarely realize how restricted (to our own countries) our e-searches are. There's a whole world out there and we don't have access.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 13, 2014)

Kevin said:


> 'Tree culling'. *sigh* The industry has a long history of information control. I call it self-serving propaganda. It's been their money, their spin on what gets allowed to be taught on such things.



Well, apparently state and federal forestry services subscribe to this idea - and frankly, so does anyone with a woodlot. There's no need for clear-cutting any more, although it hasn't disappeared altogether. Companies can go in and cut down individual trees in a matter of minutes, leaving trees right next to it relatively unscathed. Controlled burning, which was considered horrible not that long ago, has now  proven to prevent the uncontrollable forest fires and enhance both flora and fauna. And of course, a lot of companies _own _the land they plant and harvest trees from.

It's like hunting, really. People are dead set against it - but they've probably never seen deer starve to death.

As to ebooks and the equipment needed to read them - just look at landfills and hazardous waste facilities if you don't think electronics cause ecological problems.

We can think black/white on these things, or we can look at good versus poor management practices. No reason to throw the baby out with the bath.


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## belthagor (Jul 13, 2014)

movieman said:


> Books have barcodes on the back, so stores can easily track them. Createspace, for example, will automatically generate one for your back cover, and tells you to leave that space blank for them to do so.
> 
> But the price code is really irrelevant, since the stores can charge whatever they want for the book. I presume what happened is that some third party bought books from Createspace through their 'expanded distribution' scheme which allows anyone to order the books through a distributor, then sold them on Amazon for less than the Amazon price. Since a sale direct through Amazon typically gets 2-3x the royalties of a sale through 'expanded distribution', you get less money as a result. Or, if you set the price really low, you may get no money at all.



I should add... Createspace's barcode is wrong. I had to go to another website to do it. This one specifically http://www.bookow.com/resources.php


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

movieman said:


> Books have barcodes on the back, so stores can easily track them. Createspace, for example, will automatically generate one for your back cover, and tells you to leave that space blank for them to do so.
> 
> But the price code is really irrelevant, since the stores can charge whatever they want for the book. I presume what happened is that some third party bought books from Createspace through their 'expanded distribution' scheme which allows anyone to order the books through a distributor, then sold them on Amazon for less than the Amazon price. Since a sale direct through Amazon typically gets 2-3x the royalties of a sale through 'expanded distribution', you get less money as a result. Or, if you set the price really low, you may get no money at all.



I know what bar codes are for, what I didn't know is you have to put some numbers. So, let's say you put numbers other than you mentioned, and you should be fine, or? This may decide will I publish on CreateSpace.



Kevin said:


> I suspect that we rarely realize how restricted (to our own countries) our e-searches are. There's a whole world out there and we don't have access.



Well, one kind of restriction is when I can't watch some YouTube video, or Netflix.


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## Kevin (Jul 13, 2014)

> Well, apparently state and federal forestry services subscribe to this idea - and frankly, so does anyone with a woodlot.


 Yes they do... the industry (the largest industry in some states?)pays for the literature, the studies, the elected officials... Now, tell me about the thickets of the U.P....all the 'old Growth' that has renewed itself? or the fact that clear cutting is in decline because there is not much more of it around here to be done (it continues unabated elsewhere) They never talk about tree removal's effect on the soil, and why it is that the trees do not grow back the same. The re-planted forests are a single-species lawn. Relatively, not much lives there. Those companies got their money from public land; were able to leverage because of our (me you; we the people...)resources. We've been propagandized our whole lives. Paul Bunyan, hero...


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## dale (Jul 13, 2014)

Schrody said:


> I agree printed books will still exist in the future, although if we become all "ecology" paper may become obsolete (if not recycled).



this is the problem. i think ebooks will be pushed on people, whether we like it or not over this "tree-hugging" mentality.
i personally hate ebooks. to me? reading an ebook is like having sex over the phone. you can get to the end, but it's
kind of awkward and not really very satisfying.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

That's the least thing I want; to push people into something they don't want. I just hope they'll found some better way so we could keep printed books and trees


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## shadowwalker (Jul 13, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Yes they do... the industry (the largest industry in some states?)pays for the literature, the studies, the elected officials...



Well, if one wants to believe in Big Bad Industry/Government/Whatever, nothing will change their minds.


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## InstituteMan (Jul 13, 2014)

It seems to me that if we are to become paperless, or at least more paperless (is that even a thing?) it will be due to flexible displays. These things are crazy expensive now, but contemplate how crazy expensive high def flat screen televisions were 15 years ago.


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## dale (Jul 13, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> Well, apparently state and federal forestry services subscribe to this idea - and frankly, so does anyone with a woodlot. There's no need for clear-cutting any more, although it hasn't disappeared altogether. Companies can go in and cut down individual trees in a matter of minutes, leaving trees right next to it relatively unscathed. Controlled burning, which was considered horrible not that long ago, has now  proven to prevent the uncontrollable forest fires and enhance both flora and fauna. And of course, a lot of companies _own _the land they plant and harvest trees from.
> 
> It's like hunting, really. People are dead set against it - but they've probably never seen deer starve to death.
> 
> ...



this is a good point. all the plastics used for all these cheap-trinket tech devices that seem to have the habit of becoming useless right when the warranty's up are FAR more damaging to the ecology than the "abused tree syndrome" some like to obsess over. for the record....i am not a tree-hater.


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## dale (Jul 13, 2014)

and for the "pro-tree" stance....i do think that hemp-paper would be a viable solution.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

InstituteMan said:


> It seems to me that if we are to become paperless, or at least more paperless (is that even a thing?) it will be due to flexible displays. These things are crazy expensive now, but contemplate how crazy expensive high def flat screen televisions were 15 years ago.



True, those "roll up" displays may be a thing in the next few years.


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## patskywriter (Jul 13, 2014)

A couple of years ago, I took a flight from Raleigh-Durham to Washington DC. I checked in, took a book out of my backpack, and started reading. A short while later, realizing how quiet it was, I looked around the waiting area and noted that nearly everyone was staring into his or her smartphone/tablet. Even people with kids. And they—and their kids—were each seemingly mesmerized by a digital device. It was the weirdest thing. There was only one other person who wasn't digital—an old guy who was reading a newspaper. Strange. Very strange.


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## dale (Jul 13, 2014)

patskywriter said:


> A couple of years ago, I took a flight from Raleigh-Durham to Washington DC. I checked in, took a book out of my backpack, and started reading. A short while later, realizing how quiet it was, I looked around the waiting area and noted that nearly everyone was staring into his or her smartphone/tablet. Even people with kids. And they—and their kids—were each seemingly mesmerized by their digital devices. It was the weirdest thing. There was only one other person who wasn't digital—an old guy who was reading a newspaper. Strange. Very strange.



the great depersonalized society. i hate it. i take walks downtown sometimes and watch it. people have become their devices.
i mean....i realize i'm doing the same thing now as i type this. the entire thing is like the web of a poisonous spider, and we're the flies.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

You know, people were anti social before the technology; stuckin' their nose into the newspapers/books... Technology just made it easier. People haven't changed, our lifestyle did. Anyway, you can read a book on a smartphone too


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## dale (Jul 13, 2014)

Schrody said:


> You know, people were anti social before the technology; stuckin' their nose into the newspapers/books... Technology just made it easier. People haven't changed, our lifestyle did. Anyway, you can read a book on a smartphone too



not like now. i see groups of teenagers out together and they aren't saying a word to eachother for stretches of time...all of them 
just pressing buttons with their eyes glazed over and staring at a screen. i firmly believe this lack of interaction is the root cause 
of all this so called "adhd" and all the other made up psychiatric ailments we have now. these little kids do nothing but stare at screens
all day. we have become......


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

That's the problem of the parents, buying their kids smartphones and not teaching them to behave 

It's not technology's fault, it's the people who don't know how to use it.

And ADHD was a thing long before smartphones appeared


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## dale (Jul 13, 2014)

Schrody said:


> That's the problem of the parents, buying their kids smartphones and not teaching them to behave
> 
> It's not technology's fault, it's the people who don't know how to use it.



i actually haven't had a cell phone for almost a year now. lol. i lost mine and then i got used to not having one and now i just flat out refuse to get another one.
people look at me like i'm a nutcase when i tell them i don't have one, too.


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## Schrody (Jul 13, 2014)

Well, it's those people problem, not yours. It might be unusual, but it's not weird. You should do what ever you want/feel like. I got my first cell phone at 15 (Nokia's were a thing then), and a first smartphone a month ago. A lot of parents buy their kids smartphones (why the hell a 7 year old needs an iPhone?) because others have them, not thinking what damage could it do to a kid (a lack of social skills, for example).


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## shadowwalker (Jul 13, 2014)

I got my first cell phone about 10 years ago (I think) and I still have it. Doesn't have internet access - just takes calls and makes them. I use its phone book, calendar, and calculator. The rest of the stuff on it, minimal as it is - I have no idea... Only reason I got one at all was because I was tired of the huge phone bill just to have a landline


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## T.S.Bowman (Jul 14, 2014)

Apple Ice said:


> More trees/animals are better than less tress/animals, anyway.



Tell that to the 250,00 head herd of Whitetail Deer, many of which starve to death during a hard winter in Michigan. More animals is not necessarily a good thing. I know that runs counter to the environmentalist sets ideas against hunting. But it's just a natural truth. Too many animals and too little food are a bad combination.


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2014)

Ok, but I don't think hunting is a solution here


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## escorial (Jul 14, 2014)

for some reason..i know knot why..when travelling around to the shops or just out for the day i often look at other people reading books and try and see what their reading..then i always think are they lonely because readers tend to be on their own..i to feel that people must think i'm lonely if they see me reading by myself..but when i see people reading kindle..ect..i have no interest to assume anything about them..strange i know.


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2014)

Trust me, Escorial, we Kindle readers are no different than printed book readers


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## escorial (Jul 14, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Trust me, Escorial, we Kindle readers are no different than printed book readers


...true..probably just younger..ha


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2014)

I read both e-books and paper, but I saw a few older people reading on Kindle


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## dale (Jul 14, 2014)

Schrody said:


> I read both e-books and paper, but I saw a few older people reading on Kindle



they were probably like...elderly gay people.


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2014)

dale said:


> they were probably like...elderly gay people.



Nothing bad about that


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## LeeC (Jul 14, 2014)

Don't  know about elsewhere, but e-books are the rage in Florida retirement communities.  They have a lot of time to read, and it's a matter of cost. They ask their kids to buy them one of those electronic book readers, then find more than enough to read from free to pennies on what they'd spend otherwise. 

I'll bet it's similar elsewhere, wherever retirees are trying to stretch out their last resources while the rest of the world is trying to relieve them of what little they have ;-)


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2014)

Could be, the older people I saw seemed to be wealthier than average retired man with their Kindle Fire, etc. If they could afford to stay in a hotel (foreigners), I guess they weren't so poor.


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## dale (Jul 14, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Could be, the older people I saw seemed to be wealthier than average retired man with their Kindle Fire, etc. If they could afford to stay in a hotel (foreigners), I guess they weren't so poor.



you're right. they were just gay. them damn elderly gay are on top of things. ha ha


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2014)

dale said:


> you're right. they were just gay. them damn elderly gay are on top of things. ha ha



Well, someone has to


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## BobtailCon (Jul 15, 2014)

The amount of winky faces...


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## InstituteMan (Jul 15, 2014)

Saw these 5 reasons the future of e-books is bright this morning.


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## Schrody (Jul 15, 2014)

InstituteMan said:


> Saw these 5 reasons the future of e-books is bright this morning.



:eagerness: Hope Amazon will ditch DRM too!


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