# [Health] Do you smoke?



## belthagor (May 31, 2015)

Do you smoke? Why or why not; what do you think about smoking?

Yes. I love black and mild -wine flavor, because this cigar tastes fruity and makes me float. 

Some people compare smoking to a strong cup of coffee, others to a relaxing feeling. Many hate the smell...

edit: my avatar probably already hinted to this.


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## escorial (May 31, 2015)

when i'm stressed..i smoke constantly...when i'm not stressed..don't even want one


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## Schrody (May 31, 2015)

No.


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## Deleted member 56686 (May 31, 2015)

No. It causes cancer and you die. Enough said


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## Sonata (May 31, 2015)

I used to but stopped cold turkey about ten or so years ago.  Now if someone walks past my home smoking it seems to stink the place out.

People can do what they want to do, as long as they do it as far away from me as possible.


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## dale (May 31, 2015)

i smoke. non-filters. drink obsessively...kind of like "leaving las vegas" drinking. i love pain pills and heroin..though i rarely do them.
(yes. i do have some self-control). and i eat like a teenager. total garbage. i do what i want. why? because what is life worth if you don't?


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## PiP (May 31, 2015)

No, the smell of cigarettes is awful!


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## PiP (May 31, 2015)

dale said:


> iwhy? because what is life worth if you don't?


 To live longer and write more books? :drinkcoffee:


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## TKent (May 31, 2015)

I watched my mom die of lung cancer. Horrible stuff. I smoked as a teenager and young twenty-something but then I quit.


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## belthagor (May 31, 2015)

dale said:


> i smoke. non-filters. drink obsessively...kind of  like "leaving las vegas" drinking. i love pain pills and heroin..though i  rarely do them.
> (yes. i do have some self-control). and i eat like a teenager. total  garbage. i do what i want. why? because what is life worth if you  don't?



what?

please don't discuss drugs in my thread.



Sonata said:


> I used to but stopped cold turkey about ten or so years ago.  Now if someone walks past my home smoking it seems to stink the place out.
> 
> People can do what they want to do, as long as they do it as far away from me as possible.



You know hookah smoking? It passes through water, supposedly healthier...

edit: also as for me, I only smoke when I am relaxed, it adds to the chill.


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## Firemajic (May 31, 2015)

:stupid:  Welllll... DON"T tell anyone ... But I do smoke.. and drink, play with fire and drive wayyyyy too fast... I smoke because I like fire... so.. BUT.. please don't tell... please.. I am a mentor.. and.. well.. lol.. you know...


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## Pluralized (May 31, 2015)

I smoked for ten years, from age 16 to 26. Quit when my wife found out she was pregnant with our first kid. Best thing I ever did for m'health.

Now, I don't even remember why I did it. The smell is horrid. Tried one a few years back after drinking heavily, made me sprint for the bogs.


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## dale (May 31, 2015)

belthagor said:


> what?
> 
> please don't discuss drugs in my thread.



lol. you don't think nicotine is a drug? it's actually a very dangerous drug. 3 drops of pure nicotine would kill you.


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## belthagor (May 31, 2015)

dale said:


> lol. you don't think nicotine is a drug? it's actually a very dangerous drug. 3 drops of pure nicotine would kill you.



it's also a legal drug...


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## PiP (May 31, 2015)

Judging by the amount of yellow dung we wiped off the walls when my sister moved into her new house, I shudder to think what nicotine does to the lungs, Dale.


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## midnightpoet (May 31, 2015)

I thought I'd say something snarky  like "not unless I'm on fire" but I decided against it.  Seriously, no, not ever.  My father had two of his sisters die of lung cancer (they both were heavy smokers), he quit and never smoked again.


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## Pluralized (May 31, 2015)

There are other legal drugs people smoke where I live - I can't do it. 

Gotta use the vape for that stuff.


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## TKent (May 31, 2015)

Ha, I remember EXACTLY why. I moved up a rung on the career ladder at 17 and moved from my job as box office attendant at the movie theater to sales associate at a store at the mall.  All the 'adults' took coffee breaks and smoked like chimneys in the break room. Seemed like the thing to do at the time. Damn those adults anyway. Such bad role models!



Pluralized said:


> I smoked for ten years, from age 16 to 26. Quit when my wife found out she was pregnant with our first kid. Best thing I ever did for m'health.
> 
> Now, I don't even remember why I did it. The smell is horrid. Tried one a few years back after drinking heavily, made me sprint for the bogs.


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## Deleted member 56686 (May 31, 2015)

TKent said:


> I watched my mom die of lung cancer. Horrible stuff. I smoked as a teenager and young twenty-something but then I quit.




My grandfather died of lung cancer. My mother is a cancer survivor. they both smoked. Don't let the hookah craze fool you Bel, smoking is dangerous, period.


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## Pluralized (May 31, 2015)

TKent said:


> Ha, I remember EXACTLY why. I moved up a rung on the career ladder at 17 and moved from my job as box office attendant at the movie theater to sales associate at a store at the mall.  All the 'adults' took coffee breaks and smoked like chimneys in the break room. Seemed like the thing to do at the time. Damn those adults anyway. Such bad role models!




Well, the 1940s were a special time.


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## Sam (May 31, 2015)

No. 

I don't even like the smoke off a struck match, let alone sitting beside someone smoking.


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## belthagor (May 31, 2015)

mrmustard615 said:


> My grandfather died of lung cancer. My mother is a cancer survivor. they both smoked. Don't let the hookah craze fool you Bel, smoking is dangerous, period.



Well, what if you don't smoke very often? I mean I smoke once a week compared to some people I know who do it 10 times a day. There is a big difference.


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## dale (May 31, 2015)

my grandpa died of emphysema smoking camel non-filters. but he was old. he was like "dying age" anyway. ireally miss that old man.
but...i think he'd be dead of something else by now if he didn't die of that. and he loved his camels. so i'm of the opinion that his smoking was ok.


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## Harper J. Cole (May 31, 2015)

I've never had one. Smoking was something only the cool kids did when I was at school. 8)

 I wasn't one of them!


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## Deleted member 56686 (May 31, 2015)

belthagor said:


> Well, what if you don't smoke very often? I mean I smoke once a week compared to some people I know who do it 10 times a day. There is a big difference.




Okay, what if you become addicted? Nicotine is a powerfully addictive substance. You may develop the urge to smoke more often as your body needs more nicotine. My grandfather near the end was smoking two plus packs of Pall Malls with no filters a day. Why smoke if you don't need to?


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## Sam (May 31, 2015)

I thought I'd seen it all, but this is new: a thread asking people if they smoke and then criticising them because they don't.


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## shadowwalker (May 31, 2015)

All my friends and relatives who died of cancer died of the non-smoking induced kinds. With a handful of exceptions, all my relatives, smoking and non-smoking, still lived into their 80s and 90s. I've been smoking for 49 years; quitting now would probably kill me.

Funny thing about the smell bit. When I moved back into the old homestead, I smoked inside. My brother would come down on weekends - he's a vehement anti-smoker and I didn't smoke inside when he was home. After about 3 years of this, my son was home for a visit and asked, in front of my brother, if I smoked inside. I said yeah. My brother had no idea - but after that, the smell bothered him. Go figure...


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## belthagor (May 31, 2015)

Sam said:


> I thought I'd seen it all, but this is new: a thread asking people if they smoke *and then criticising them because they don't.*



and vice-versa


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## dale (May 31, 2015)

PiP said:


> To live longer and write more books? :drinkcoffee:



that philosophy might even work...except....i was so smashed on booze and narcotics while writing the 1st one that i don't even remember writing 3/4s of it.


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## belthagor (May 31, 2015)

dale said:


> that philosophy might even work...except....i was so smashed on booze and narcotics while writing the 1st one that i don't even remember writing 3/4s of it.



please stop.


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## dale (May 31, 2015)

belthagor said:


> please stop.



think of it like this....

[video=youtube;Rmoo4m7ZFXI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmoo4m7ZFXI[/video]


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## Deleted member 56686 (May 31, 2015)

I don't think Bel is really criticizing people for not smoking.

And, I'm not trying to be critical of you either, Bel. It's just that I've seen what smoking can do to people close up, so I guess I'm a little concerned. It is true that some people can live a long time even if they do smoke, call it good genetics I guess, but unfortunately, that's the exception to the rule.


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## Terry D (May 31, 2015)

Never even tried tobacco. I was raised by parents who smoked 2 packs a day each and the things disgust me. You'd be better off eating them and it wouldn't stink so bad.


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## Plasticweld (May 31, 2015)

My grandmother told me this story when I was just a kid. 

Two friends who had not seen each other in long time got together to talk and share. They had grown up together and had many things in common.  Both had married young, both had two kids, both had put on a little weight and both were happily married.  The list went on and on when one of the woman asked the other, "Do you smoke after sex?"  The reply was "I don't know I never looked."  while I personally don't smoke I would like to think I was capable of making someone else do so.


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## TKent (May 31, 2015)

LMAO!



Pluralized said:


> Well, the 1940s were a special time.


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## musichal (May 31, 2015)

Used to. Quit.  People only quit if and when they are ready.  

As far as smoking once a week... How many?  But more importantly, why?  That why can grow, and so can the addictive need.  However, before I completely quit, I gradually dropped from two packs per day to two cigarettes per week, and felt much better.  If held to that level, well, something else may kill you, but probably not smoking.

People think first of respiratory diseases such as lung cancer and emphysema, but heart disease is also likely.

Anyway, need a light?


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## Mesafalcon (May 31, 2015)

belthagor said:


> it's also a legal drug...



True.

But what's "legal" is an opinion forced upon you that you eat up.

Most "drugs" that you can get jailtime for are MUCH LESS harmful to everyone around you, and MUCH LESS harmful than the _jailtime_.

Most people who make the decision on what's legal do not have experience with every so-called harmful drug and make laws based on thier own sepculation of the effects of the drug (usually imagining the effect to be uncontrolable and have much longer lasting effects than they do). 

I voted I don't smoke. It has no "effect" except calming your nerves for a very short time and then you need the next. Pretty pointless and chips away at your wallet if you are a regular smoker.


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## LeeC (May 31, 2015)

Not to distract from the dangers of smoking, but this brought to mind:

_"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing."  ~  Redd Foxx_

The thing that strikes me is how we tend to focus on some things, and yet ignore other things that are as dangerous, or more so.  

Do you know what the number one addictive substance is and how much more harm it's causing? More addictive than nicotine, even than cocaine, is sugar, and it's causing far more health problems in the world today. 

Anything in excess can be a problem. I could go on about lifestyles, even about human intelligence seemingly being an oxymoron in how we're disrupting the natural world that sustains us, but it's best I crawl back in my hole ;-) 

Hope I didn't steer too far off course belthagor. Apologies if I did


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## popsprocket (May 31, 2015)

No, I don't smoke - you can convince me to light one up if I've been drinking but that's about it. My friend bought me a thing of smallish cigars for my 18th and they're all still in the case, totally intact. Probably awful by now. I know that tobacco goes stale eventually.



PiP said:


> Judging by the amount of yellow dung we wiped off the walls when my sister moved into her new house, I shudder to think what nicotine does to the lungs, Dale.



On mum's side both grandparents smoked heavily. After they had both passed on I can remember seeing their house with all the furniture removed and the walls were really yellow except in the places where pictures had been hung, which were still a nice clean white colour.


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## Mesafalcon (May 31, 2015)

LeeC said:


> Do you know what the number one addictive substance is and how much more harm it's causing? More addictive than nicotine, even than cocaine, is sugar, and it's causing far more health problems in the world today.



This is why putting people in prison for recreational drug use is unjust. There are too many "legal" substances that are actually worse then most drugs in moderation.

When you think critically about drug laws, they are more about control in a parental sense over citizens and about assumed social norms. They are not in place to "protect" people health wise. 

If smoking is proven to cause cancer over decades of studies, why is it legal? It makes you wonder what "legal" means in this sense.


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## shadowwalker (May 31, 2015)

Mesafalcon said:


> If smoking is proven to cause cancer over decades of studies, why is it legal? It makes you wonder what "legal" means in this sense.



Ask yourself why booze is legal (and not taxed or restricted nearly to the extent tobacco is) and why people are pushing for legalizing pot (where it isn't already legal). I mean, how many innocent lives are wrecked/ended because of alcohol - but it's 'socially acceptable' to drink, so ... 

Or ask why, after all these decades (and all those billions of dollars researchers have collected), there isn't a cure for cancer. Quick answer: greed and a strong need to dictate.


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## Mesafalcon (May 31, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> Ask yourself why booze is legal (and not taxed or restricted nearly to the extent tobacco is) and why people are pushing for legalizing pot (where it isn't already legal). I mean, how many innocent lives are wrecked/ended because of alcohol - but it's 'socially acceptable' to drink, so ...
> 
> Or ask why, after all these decades (and all those billions of dollars researchers have collected), there isn't a cure for cancer. Quick answer: greed and a strong need to dictate.



Social acceptance for booze, ya... the method in which it is consumed surely helps. PLUS, people understand it cause they have access to it. Other drugs, including pot, are misunderstood and speculated wrongly on.

Can't see how what you say directly relates to my comment, but I agree.


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## Gavrushka (Jun 1, 2015)

Up until 2006, I smoked a lot, mainly medium tar filter cigarettes like Embassy Regal. Well, August 1st of that year, I woke up choking and coughed up a ball of phlegm the size of a golf ball (or so it felt) so I stopped. - Going from 60 a day to zero was quite 'distressing'. I felt like my skin was being flayed and my brain boiling in my skull. At the time, I employed 20 people, and they were all sacked at least half a dozen times over the month that followed.

Even now, I miss smoking, but the pain of withdrawal is a permanent barrier to me ever starting again. - My health is massively improved, and it's great to draw a lungful of air without my chest rattling or exploding into a coughing fit, showering the world with lung batter.

Hell, I avoid sugar, and keep my salt intake down to a couple of grams a day too. - We walk through a minefield that is life, but if we spend all our time worrying about where we're placing our feet, we could well sidestep living the only one we'll ever be granted.


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## dither (Jun 1, 2015)

Many years ago now i smoked, had smoked for about 8/9 years since leaving school and had become quite a heavy smoker. I'd attempted to kick the habit a few times, haven't we all?
Then one day i had an accident at work, damaged my knee and couldn't walk for a month or so. In that time i got to chain-smoking just about i reckon. Then, out of the blue, it suddenly occurred to me that i hadn't smoked for a couple of days, couldn't stand the smell even.
Doc said i'd smoked and smoked and smoked until i'd eventually got sick of smoking. There's a thing called "aversion therapy" i believe, whereby a person pigs out on something to the point where they just can't stomach any more and i'd done that to myself quite unintentionally with cigarettes. Haven't touched a cigarette in over thirty years and i'm so grateful for having had that knock.


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## Mesafalcon (Jun 1, 2015)

dither said:


> Doc said i'd smoked and smoked and smoked until i'd eventually got sick of smoking. There's a thing called "aversion therapy" i believe, whereby a person pigs out on something to the point where they just can't stomach any more.



That didn't work with Taco Bell.


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## dither (Jun 1, 2015)

Mesafalcon said:


> That didn't work with Taco Bell.



Life eh?


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## Kevin (Jun 1, 2015)

'Aversion therapy'... I had a friend way back (12 or 13 years-old we were I guess), and his dad was a V.P. of _Schick: Cure for Smoking _which at the time was all over with advertisements on t.v. and the radio. He (the friend) invited me flying in his dad's personal airplane where I think I developed an aversion for taking off and landing, over and over, proving it as I retched Red-vine and Coca-Cola all over the backseat upholstery. No, I'll never do that again....


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## dale (Jun 1, 2015)

dither said:


> Many years ago now i smoked, had smoked for about 8/9 years since leaving school and had become quite a heavy smoker. I'd attempted to kick the habit a few times, haven't we all?
> Then one day i had an accident at work, damaged my knee and couldn't walk for a month or so. In that time i got to chain-smoking just about i reckon. Then, out of the blue, it suddenly occurred to me that i hadn't smoked for a couple of days, couldn't stand the smell even.
> Doc said i'd smoked and smoked and smoked until i'd eventually got sick of smoking. There's a thing called "aversion therapy" i believe, whereby a person pigs out on something to the point where they just can't stomach any more and i'd done that to myself quite unintentionally with cigarettes. Haven't touched a cigarette in over thirty years and i'm so grateful for having had that knock.



lol. my dad did this to me when i was a kid. i kept telling him i wanted to chew tobacco. i was like 10 or something. finally he got sick of hearing
it and pulled into a store and brought out a pouch of red man. i wasn't thrilled with the brand, but thought...cool. got home. i opened and grabbed a little
piece of it out to chew. he said....."oh no no no...this is what you chew. this is how men do it." and he grabbed this huge chunk of it out and handed
it to me. so i chewed it for a bit and acted cool, even though it tasted horrible and i hated it. but at this point, i couldn't back out. man, about 10 minutes 
later i was hugging the toilet, vomiting my guts out. my skin was almost green. he actually got scared and was sorry he did it. lol. i love that man.
but it worked. i never chewed tobacco again.


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## Loveabull (Jun 1, 2015)

I smoked for many years. Then discovered nicotine lozenges are kind of like methadone for cigarettes. They can be substituted for smoking but then you're hooked on them instead. But then you smell better and can suck them anywhere. Less expensive than cigarettes too. When you quit after while smelling the smoke is obnoxious. The only smell I still like as far as smokables are Black and Milds. They smell like cherry wood pipe tobacco. My grandfather smoked a pipe.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 2, 2015)

Mesafalcon said:


> Social acceptance for booze, ya... the method in which it is consumed surely helps. PLUS, people understand it cause they have access to it. Other drugs, including pot, are misunderstood and speculated wrongly on.
> 
> Can't see how what you say directly relates to my comment, but I agree.



Just pointing out that a lot of dangerous and even deadly things are legal. The booze thing really bugs me, though, when one sees how much damage it does without the social stigma and vigilantism that's attached to smoking.


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## Phil Istine (Jun 2, 2015)

I started smoking when I was 16 and stopped when I was 31.  I didn't use any of the fancy methods that are around now, I went cold turkey.  It was an addiction, though mild compared with some of my other experiences - the stuff that dare not speak its name (at least in this thread)   .


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## Kevin (Jun 2, 2015)

> it does without the social stigma and vigilantism that's attached to smoking.


   em hmm... they sure know how to get us when they want us. "you should like this, and not like that..."


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## Pidgeon84 (Jun 2, 2015)

It's a Colorado thing. You guys wouldn't understand... 


That was a Marijuana joke


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## Anari (Jun 3, 2015)

I've been smoking for 56 years. I guess if I ever feel the need to stop, I'll stop. But not yet. I enjoy it too much.


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## Loveabull (Jun 3, 2015)

It's weird though I still smoke in dreams sometimes. If I see a pack of Newports I get a brief reflex urge. When you do it a lot it becomes as much a habit as breathing so I totally understand. The reason why I stopped was getting breathless with even light exercise.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Jun 3, 2015)

Yes and no? 

I have the vapor, which they haven't done much testing on yet.

They extract the nicotine somehow and make the concentrated liquid, which the device simply vaporizes, usually by heat. 

You can still get a thousand flavors or additives. 

Mine is strawberry cream. Hell of a lot better tasting than any tobacco, and it doesn't choke me out. Plus of course, nothing coats your mouth or lungs, so food still tastes good and I can still breathe.


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## dale (Jun 3, 2015)

Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> Yes and no?
> 
> I have the vapor, which they haven't done much testing on yet.
> 
> ...



i like the vapes because i can still smoke in a restaurant with one. and for some reason, it just irritates the shit out of some people
to watch me do it. and irritating people has always been one of my favorite pastimes.


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## Jenwales (Jun 4, 2015)

I don't smoke for obvious reasons: its causes cancer, it makes you smell, it makes you finger and teeth yellow. It probably as other nasty side effects.
But you want to know what really annoys me about some people who smoke?
When they smoke around babies or young children. My cousins grew up with asthma, their father always smoked. Why don't people think of their children? I hate it when I see a woman pushing a buggy and their smoking. 
I just have the opinion that if you are smoking and you have children you obviously don't care about them enough to stop. No, sorry, you are just addicted and it's terrible. 

I don't have anything against e-cigarettes because you can't smell them or be affected by them


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## Sonata (Jun 4, 2015)

Jenwales said:


> I don't have anything against e-cigarettes because you can't smell them or be affected by them[/QUOTE]
> 
> I am not debating this subject but as insufficient research has yet to be published, there are a number of reports stating that there might possibly be more harm in e-cigarettes than is currently thought.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 4, 2015)

Jenwales said:


> I just have the opinion that if you are smoking and you have children you obviously don't care about them enough to stop.



Thanks for that blanket condemnation of smoking parents. I'll be sure to tell my son, who is under the apparently mistaken belief that I love him.


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## Kevin (Jun 4, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> Thanks for that blanket condemnation of smoking parents. I'll be sure to tell my son, who is under the apparently mistaken belief that I love him.


 And next year we're going to get you for feeding your kid any donuts, deserts, breakfast cereals, wheat, sugar, apple pie, milk products, mcdonalds, egg mc muffins, eggs, bacon, meat products; living in a dirty-air town, driving a dirty-air car, thinking of driving in a dirty air car; acting upset, being upset, being negative, thinking bad thoughts, projecting bad thoughts, not having a smiley face, not being cheerful, insufficient cheerfulness, mentioning anything negative, using the 'no'-word, using any word with 'n' in it...


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## Phil Istine (Jun 4, 2015)

Kevin said:


> And next year we're going to get you for feeding your kid any donuts, deserts, breakfast cereals, wheat, sugar, apple pie, milk products, mcdonalds, egg mc muffins, eggs, bacon, meat products; living in a dirty-air town, driving a dirty-air car, thinking of driving in a dirty air car; acting upset, being upset, being negative, thinking bad thoughts, projecting bad thoughts, not having a smiley face, not being cheerful, insufficient cheerfulness, mentioning anything negative, using the 'no'-word, using any word with 'n' in it...



Totally agree - those deserts are far too gritty for children.


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## PiP (Jun 4, 2015)

Jenwales said:


> I
> When they smoke around babies or young children. My cousins grew up with asthma, their father always smoked. Why don't people think of their children? I hate it when I see a woman pushing a buggy and their smoking.



I agree. Their behaviour is selfish. I hate to see people smoking near children, especially young babies. Passive smoking is also a health hazard. Adults have the choice and should know better. Not so the innocent.

The best law in Portugal was to ban people from smoking in restaurants. The last thing I want when eating is to inhale cigarette smoke because someone does not have the manners to light up outside.


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

PiP said:


> I agree. Their behaviour is selfish. I hate to see people smoking near children, especially young babies. Passive smoking is also a health hazard. Adults have the choice and should know better. Not so the innocent.
> 
> The best law in Portugal was to ban people from smoking in restaurants. The last thing I want when eating is to inhale cigarette smoke because someone does not have the manners to light up outside.



i hate the smoking ban here in indiana. the reason being, that over 70% of the restaurants and bars had already went non-smoking without the law. so before, people had a choice, with the non-smokers having far more choices already. some people just can't stand for others to have choices, though. so the totalitarian ban went into effect.


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## LeeC (Jun 4, 2015)

I noticed a cartoon in the paper this morning, where a pharmacist is telling a customer "We're all out of antibiotics, but you can take a quarter pound of ground beef every twelve hours."

I wonder how many that will go over the head of ;-)


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## Phil Istine (Jun 4, 2015)

My parents were such heavy smokers when I was little, they had a cigarette machine in the house.  Some guy used to turn up and re-fill it periodically.  They always smoked in the house.  Things were different then though.  The hazards of smoking weren't really known about generally and the passive smoking danger certainly wasn't public knowledge.  Cigarette smoking was marketed as being really cool and there were even allusions to health _benefits._  Not only were there cigarette adverts in abundance on billboards and cinema screens, they were even advertised on television (the two channel black and white thing).
So I think it would be a bit harsh to castigate parents for smoking in front of their children in an era when we knew a lot less.  Indeed, the information about passive smoking wasn't prominent until the late 80s - in the UK anyway.  This was some years after becoming more public about direct smoking.

Have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-y_N4u0uRQ

There are more here:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cigarette+advert+beneficial

Really, what chance did parents have against this sort of backdrop (rhetorical).


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## Deleted member 56686 (Jun 4, 2015)

Anyone remember ads like these?


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

Phil Istine said:


> My parents were such heavy smokers when I was little, they had a cigarette machine in the house.  Some guy used to turn up and re-fill it periodically.  They always smoked in the house.  Things were different then though.  The hazards of smoking weren't really known about generally and the passive smoking danger certainly wasn't public knowledge.  Cigarette smoking was marketed as being really cool and there were even allusions to health _benefits._  Not only were there cigarette adverts in abundance on billboards and cinema screens, they were even advertised on television (the two channel black and white thing).
> So I think it would be a bit harsh to castigate parents for smoking in front of their children in an era when we knew a lot less.  Indeed, the information about passive smoking wasn't prominent until the late 80s - in the UK anyway.  This was some years after becoming more public about direct smoking.
> 
> Have a look at this:
> ...



the so called "dangers" of second hand smoke have been extremely over-inflated anyway.....

http://www.davehitt.com/facts/epa.html


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## Bloggsworth (Jun 4, 2015)

mrmustard615 said:


> No. It causes cancer and you die. Enough said



If it did, everybody who ever smoked would, by now, be dead. There is absolutely no doubt that, in those susceptible to certain strains of cancer, smoking can trigger the event, other can smoke without getting cancer but may get chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder (COPD, a catch all including emphysema and chronic bronchitis). I, for instance, used to smoke up to 80 cigarettes a day, then 30 years ago I decided I didn't want to any more, so  I stopped and, by a stroke of fortune, I have the lungs of a 50 year-old. When a child I used to make toys and things with bits of asbestos, slept in a Nissen Hut with an asbestos roof, yet I do not suffer from asbestosis - Nothing is a given, but if you smoke you are more likely to die of its effects than to be knocked down by a bus...

Interestingly, when I was no'but a lad, around 1950 we, as a family, would sit in cinemas with a capacity of one or two thousand, and 50% of the cinema-goers would be smoking - How is it that any of that generation are left alive?


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## PiP (Jun 4, 2015)

dale said:


> i hate the smoking ban here in indiana. the reason being, that over 70% of the restaurants and bars had already went non-smoking without the law. so before, people had a choice, with the non-smokers having far more choices already. some people just can't stand for others to have choices, though. so the totalitarian ban went into effect.



Hi Dale. I would not object if _some_ restaurants allowed smoking   It's just before the ban I had no choice whether I was forced to inhale smoke whilst I was eating. Can you understand what I'm saying?  Smokers would light up on the table next to me and then rather than smoke the cigarette they would hold it in the 'pose' position while they chatted. The smoke would then drift across my meal while I was eating. 

I'm all for compromise. 

I realise there are various POVs whether passive smoking can cause cancer but personally I'd rather not take the risk.


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

PiP said:


> Hi Dale. I would not object if _some_ restaurants allowed smoking   It's just before the ban I had no choice whether I was forced to inhale smoke whilst I was eating. Can you understand what I'm saying?  Smokers would light up on the table next to me and then rather than smoke the cigarette they would hold it in the 'pose' position while they chatted. The smoke would then drift across my meal while I was eating.
> 
> I'm all for compromise.
> 
> I realise there are various POVs whether passive smoking can cause cancer but personally I'd rather not taking the risk.



i remember when i was a kid, things were like that. with smoking sections and non-smoking sections side by side eachother. 
but by the time they passed the smoking ban here, the restaurants and bars had already became either total non-smoking or
total smoking. so there wasn't really a point in the law being passed, especially considering that most places were non-smoking.
we have 1 smoking bar in this city now. i don't know how they get away with it. i think they just decided...."hey. we're going to 
be the the only smoking bar in this city and we'll just pay the fines." or maybe they pay the cops kickbacks. i don't know. it's
my favorite bar, though. lol


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## LeeC (Jun 4, 2015)

I might like to enjoy a good cigar with a glass of single malt scotch (though I'm not allowed anymore), but when I go to a restaurant I do so to enjoy the food, untainted ;-) If I couldn't then I wouldn't go to a restaurant, so it's the economics of an overall shift in perspectives that's an overriding impetus, not any individual taste.

There are so many narrow topics that we subjective beings belabor, that it gets to be rather humorous. Take for instance that we go to such great lengths to destroy germs, and are in effect worsening our situation. Over ninety percent of the cells in and on our body aren''t human cells, but are very beneficial in keeping us healthy. Yet in manically declaring war on them, are actually building up resistance in the few that are harmful.


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## Phil Istine (Jun 4, 2015)

dale said:


> the so called "dangers" of second hand smoke have been extremely over-inflated anyway.....
> 
> http://www.davehitt.com/facts/epa.html



That was an interesting read thank you Dale.
It appears to be a classic case of manipulating results by carefully choosing the sources of the statistics.  I believe it would be much fairer perhaps to have maybe 30 sources and knock off the three at either extreme to hopefully eliminate the more poorly conducted questionaires.
I do note though that the page was fairly narrow in its subject matter, focusing on lung cancer caused by second hand smoke.  I suppose it did allude to other problems to by asserting that passive smoking is the equivalent of a very low amount of direct smoking.
Either way, I dislike being in a smoky atmosphere whether or not it is significantly harmful.


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## Terry D (Jun 4, 2015)

dale said:


> the so called "dangers" of second hand smoke have been extremely over-inflated anyway.....
> 
> http://www.davehitt.com/facts/epa.html



This article lost my interest (and any sense of credibility) as soon as he claimed that lung cancer is a rare disease. Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer deaths in the US (160,000/ year, 27% of all cancer related deaths). That can't be considered rare. Why should I trust any other point he tries to make?


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

Terry D said:


> This article lost my interest (and any sense of credibility) as soon as he claimed that lung cancer is a rare disease. Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer deaths in the US (160,000/ year, 27% of all cancer related deaths). That can't be considered rare. Why should I trust any other point he tries to make?


i can actually drum up an actual court ruling which ruled that the epa falsified their info, if you want. it's the phillip morris case. 
the EPA exaggerated everything for an agenda, and a federal court ruled they did in fact do that.


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

basically, saying a kid is going to get a lung disease from being around a parent that smokes is like saying a person is gonna
get blown up by a bomb just by walking past a group of muslims.


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## walker (Jun 4, 2015)

Ex-smoker here. It's been more than twenty years now. My father smoked heavily (which I didn't like as a kid, apparently), and also I'm from the generation with not only the friendly smiling cigarette pitchmen, often on TV, but also the candy cigarettes. They were bubble gum. I used to buy them all the time.

Smoking is dangerous, no question about it. It increases your odds of health problems, but doesn't guarantee them. However, even if you get away with smoking for a long time with no apparent ill health effects, that doesn't prove anything. You can drive drunk for fifty years without killing anybody too, but you can't leap from there to an argument that it isn't dangerous to drive drunk. The evidence against smoking is too voluminous to ignore. Ignoring this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the studies, and how science itself works. You study a large group of smokers, and a large group of non-smokers, and some higher percentage of the smokers suffer ill health effects. That implies that some number of smokers do not suffer ill health effects. That is not a "Eureka!" moment, that you can point to and claim that smoking isn't harmful; it is consistent with, and trumped by, a higher percentage of smokers suffering ill health effects.

A couple of years ago my wife and I spent a month or so heavily involved with end-of-life care for her sister, who had lung cancer. She was not a smoker, but worked in the basement of a dusty library for thirty years, which probably had something to do with it. The experience forever changed how I look at cancer. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly. Even though I knew people who had died of cancer before, I had never been through the process of seeing the body disintegrate and stop working, in often very unpleasant ways. So, I guess I'm not in favor of anybody blowing smoke in my face in restaurants. One of the reasons that I quit was that I already knew this, and sort of ostracized myself whenever I wanted to smoke, often outside in the cold. It just wasn't fun anymore.


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## Kyle R (Jun 4, 2015)

I'm not a fan of smoking. Inhaling smoke just doesn't seem wise to me. I also dislike inhaling the pollution that smokers exhale, so I do my best to avoid people when they are smoking (or hold my breath while passing them, if I can't avoid them).

I've always wondered about the rationalizations smokers make.

Is it:

A) They believe cigarette smoke is _not_ unhealthy?

B) They believe cigarette smoke _is_ unhealthy, but only in higher dosages/frequencies than what they expose themselves (and sometimes others) to?

C) They believe cigarette smoke is unhealthy at the dosages/frequencies that they expose themselves (and sometimes others) to, but they don't care?

D) Something else entirely?

From the late Backward OX:



			
				The Backward OX said:
			
		

> Trying is Lying.
> 
> There is no Try, there is only Do.
> 
> ...


(#5)


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

walker said:


> Ex-smoker here. It's been more than twenty years now. My father smoked heavily (which I didn't like as a kid, apparently), and also I'm from the generation with not only the friendly smiling cigarette pitchmen, often on TV, but also the candy cigarettes. They were bubble gum. I used to buy them all the time.
> 
> Smoking is dangerous, no question about it. It increases your odds of health problems, but doesn't guarantee them. However, even if you get away with smoking for a long time with no apparent ill health effects, that doesn't prove anything. You can drive drunk for fifty years without killing anybody too, but you can't leap from there to an argument that it isn't dangerous to drive drunk. The evidence against smoking is too voluminous to ignore. Ignoring this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the studies, and how science itself works. You study a large group of smokers, and a large group of non-smokers, and some higher percentage of the smokers suffer ill health effects. That implies that some number of smokers do not suffer ill health effects. That is not a "Eureka!" moment, that you can point to and claim that smoking isn't harmful; it is consistent with, and trumped by, a higher percentage of smokers suffering ill health effects.
> 
> A couple of years ago my wife and I spent a month or so heavily involved with end-of-life care for her sister, who had lung cancer. She was not a smoker, but worked in the basement of a dusty library for thirty years, which probably had something to do with it. The experience forever changed how I look at cancer. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly. Even though I knew people who had died of cancer before, I had never been through the process of seeing the body disintegrate and stop working, in often very unpleasant ways. So, I guess I'm not in favor of anybody blowing smoke in my face in restaurants. One of the reasons that I quit was that I already knew this, and sort of ostracized myself whenever I wanted to smoke, often outside in the cold. It just wasn't fun anymore.



congrats on quitting. i actually did really quit smoking for 8 years. of course it can't be good for a person. you're inhaling smoke, for god's sake. it can't be good. but there are so many things in life "not good". when i started back? i did so because i wanted to stop drinking. but i figured i needed 1 legal vice to take it's place. so i stopped drinking for 3 weeks, and the drinking withdrawals became so ridiculous, now i do them both. but i would definitely advise against smoking. my only point was...it's not as drastic as what some people wanna turn it into.


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## Loveabull (Jun 4, 2015)

I don't think anyone needs to be condemned for smoking around children. Probably not the best habit but not the worst either. I smoked when my kids were young. Heck when I had my oldest you could sit in the visiting area right around the corner from patient rooms...in the hospital...and smoke. I remember my OB coming in to congratulate us holding a lit cigarette. Things were different then. And that wasn't the dark ages, it was 1984.


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## InnerFlame00 (Jun 4, 2015)

Never. Not if someone paid me would I do it.

My mom used to smoke, but she would only do it out on the porch, even in the middle of Michigan winters. She never took it in the house, and I respect the hell out of her for that looking back now. She would smoke in the car though, and that is where I grew to hate the things. The smell always irritated me, giving me nausea, headaches, and a sore throat if I was around it for more than a few minutes. Whenever we were in a restaurant and someone was smoking I would yell, as loud as I could, "UGH SOMEONE IS SMOKING THAT IS SO GROSSSSS!!!" and being five years old meant I could get away with it (embarrassed my mom though, for sure!) but nowadays if someone's second hand smoke is making me feel like I'm gonna puke I just try to vacate the area.

I would also throw away her cigarettes any chance I got lol. Eventually she quit cold turkey and whenever she got the urge to go to the store and buy some she would yell at me and my brother to come sit on her so she couldn't get up to go buy some till the urge passed. Really, we weren't heavy enough to weigh her down but I'm sure the reminder of why she was quitting (for our sake) was helpful.

As for the cancer thing, it comes down to the genetic lottery. Some people can do whatever the heck they want to their bodies and get away with it. The majority of people, however, are going to feel adverse affects of some kind. At the very least you have a dampened sense of taste and smell and decreased lung capacity. 

Sugar is a addictive, true. But I would rather sit next to someone eating cake than by someone who is smoking lol. Moderation is key for anything that can alter your brain chemistry (which includes sugar, caffeine, alcohol, and even some spices). I think the difference here is that inhaling smoke isn't good for your lungs, period. Whereas having a certain amount of caffeine or alcohol every day can have good effects (although, rarely do people stick to the amount recommended for benefit and go way over!)


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

i personally never give my kid cigarettes unless she's really strung out on crack.


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## walker (Jun 4, 2015)

InnerFlame00 said:


> Never. Not if someone paid me would I do it.
> But I would rather sit next to someone eating cake than by someone who is smoking lol.



Me too! Obviously somebody eating sugar can't harm you directly, like second-hand smoke.

But eating sugar is not a victimless crime. Eventually everybody has to pay, literally, for everyone else's health care, which is why you are starting to see talk of taxing sodas and the like. The more that things like diabetes are epidemics, the more that insurance rates go up, or taxpayers or health care providers have to foot the bill directly for people without insurance, etc.

I wish I could have taped myself having a discussion like this twenty-five years ago. I would have justified the smoking, the eating, whatever floats your boat, man! I'm still like that in real life, I mean, whatever people want to do with their life is fine with me, I'm not pushy, and yes, I do grab a cheap ice-cream cone when I go shopping at Costco, but I have tried to make a few semi-reasonable decisions about how I'm going to deal with things like cigarettes and sugar going forward. Live and learn.


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

walker said:


> Me too! Obviously somebody eating sugar can't harm you directly, like second-hand smoke.
> 
> But eating sugar is not a victimless crime. Eventually everybody has to pay, literally, for everyone else's health care, which is why you are starting to see talk of taxing sodas and the like. The more that things like diabetes are epidemics, the more that insurance rates go up, or taxpayers or health care providers have to foot the bill directly for people without insurance, etc.
> 
> I wish I could have taped myself having a discussion like this twenty-five years ago. I would have justified the smoking, the eating, whatever floats your boat, man! I'm still like that in real life, I mean, whatever people want to do with their life is fine with me, I'm not pushy, and yes, I do grab a cheap ice-cream cone when I go shopping at Costco, but I have tried to make a few semi-reasonable decisions about how I'm going to deal with things like cigarettes and sugar going forward. Live and learn.



yeah. government healthcare is basically the keystone of totalitarianism.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Jun 4, 2015)

I gave myself an overstimulated pancreas by having a huge red bull and giant candy bars every other day. Of course, genetically I'm predisposed since every other man in my family is type one.  I'm honestly surprised there's still such a lack of knowledge about blood glucose and sugar.  

They think being diabetic means sugar is the devil and you can't have any. They still need sugar, haha. It just means, A the insulin in your body either isn't being absorbed, or B, your pancreas is now dead and will never make insulin again. People also don't know that a baked potato will raise your sugar more than a slice of cake. 

But more on topic... As with physical tobacco, I'm sure any risks or effects of vapor will become more known just as the product becomes as widely used. 

So I suppose I'm inside that first generation that won't know anything until it's too late. Still, it does seem, at present, much less irritating than actual smoke, and, for me at least, it's easier for me to get the nicotine. 

I've tried many cigars actually, which apparently can make you dizzy hella' quick, and they did nothing. Actual cigarettes had a much shorter effect, and the physical effects were so annoying that it wasn't worth it for me. 

We may soon find out that vapor carries similar risks, but, at present, at least it's easier. For me, at least.


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## Folcro (Jun 4, 2015)

I don't smoke. Both for health reasons and because I find it disgusting. I also have an addictive personality. I don't drink mainly for the same reasons.


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## Terry D (Jun 4, 2015)

dale said:


> basically, saying a kid is going to get a lung disease from being around a parent that smokes is like saying a person is gonna
> get blown up by a bomb just by walking past a group of muslims.



Not even close. It's more like saying a person has a good chance of getting blown up if they live in the same house where terrorists (of any sort) make bombs. But I'm not going to debate the risks of second hand smoke. I've seen them, I've experienced them. They are real.


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## dale (Jun 4, 2015)

Terry D said:


> Not even close. It's more like saying a person has a good chance of getting blown up if they live in the same house where terrorists (of any sort) make bombs. But I'm not going to debate the risks of second hand smoke. I've seen them, I've experienced them. They are real.



they're as real as you want them to be. just like the muslims.


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## Loveabull (Jun 4, 2015)

And then best buddie's brother caught him smoking as a kid and made him smoke the whole pack as punishment. Unfortunately rather than turn him off the habit, he's still a chimney forty years on.


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## Pluralized (Jun 5, 2015)

Wife and I both started back smoking for exactly four weeks back in 2011. We both decided it was totally stupid and quit. So I had to suffer once again the horrid effects of nicotine withdrawal. Wouldn't wish that shitty sensation on anyone. Now I get to be all high horse again and act like the smell is super offensive to my sensitive olfactory glands.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 5, 2015)

Pluralized said:


> Now I get to be all high horse again and act like the smell is super offensive to my sensitive olfactory glands.



Sometimes I light up just because I'm around people like you LOL

As to the second-hand smoke thing, years ago I had to do a paper on the studies done on the effects, and yeah - they basically set out to prove it was dangerous, come hell or high water. There's a vast difference between stopping at a bar where there's smoking and living with a heavy smoker in a poorly ventilated house - but guess which type of group these studies focussed on, and which ones the doctors tossed around to get their government grant money, and which ones the "we know what's best for you" politicians used to force businesses to ban smoking? So yeah, big surprise there...


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## Folcro (Jun 5, 2015)

Nobody wants to smell that crap.


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## dale (Jun 5, 2015)

Folcro said:


> Nobody wants to smell that crap.



well, i don't like the smell of fat people, personally. but you don't see me calling for them to be banned from restaurants.


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## InnerFlame00 (Jun 5, 2015)

I'm glad smokers were banned from restaurants, because now I can enjoy my food without feeling nauseous, dizzy, and be able to taste my food properly. I actually had an aversion to going out to eat when I was younger because I knew I couldn't avoid smokers and I didn't like the idea of throwing up good food. Why would anyone want to eat and smoke at the same time anyway? Cigarette smoke makes any environment a hostile one for me, so the less of it around the better.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 5, 2015)

I can't understand why non-smokers seem to think it's okay to question the intelligence of smokers, and have no aversion to using derogatory terms when talking about smokers. Apparently smoking makes us lesser human beings...


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## Loveabull (Jun 5, 2015)

Something amusing is as I said the smell of a cigarette makes me queasy now. But I love the smell of cherry wood tobacco. Oh and weed, when I walk to the dogs late night that's a pretty common fragrance in the air. Smoking it myself always made me uncomfortably spacey, but the smell reminds me of concert halls back in the day.

Now that's something that has changed big time. Most concert venues allowed cigarettes no problem. Some of them tried to discourage weed but everyone was doing it anyway. Then there were those iconic moments when everyone would hold up their lighters. Now you can't even hold up a lighter, they hold up their phones instead...guess it's the same idea.


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## dale (Jun 5, 2015)

Loveabull said:


> Something amusing is as I said the smell of a cigarette makes me queasy now. But I love the smell of cherry wood tobacco. Oh and weed, when I walk to the dogs late night that's a pretty common fragrance in the air. Smoking it myself always made me uncomfortably spacey, but the smell reminds me of concert halls back in the day.
> 
> Now that's something that has changed big time. Most concert venues allowed cigarettes no problem. Some of them tried to discourage weed but everyone was doing it anyway. Then there were those iconic moments when everyone would hold up their lighters. Now you can't even hold up a lighter, they hold up their phones instead...guess it's the same idea.



yeah, but the lighters made it seem like an arena full of stars. the phone effect is like....really not the same.


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## dale (Jun 5, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> I can't understand why non-smokers seem to think it's okay to question the intelligence of smokers, and have no aversion to using derogatory terms when talking about smokers. Apparently smoking makes us lesser human beings...



well, even science says that nicotine is good for the brain. opens the synapses or something or other. so you really can't
blame non-smokers for not using their brains at full power like we do. ha ha


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## Kevin (Jun 5, 2015)

I'll never tongue your ashtray...


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## Firemajic (Jun 5, 2015)

Wellllll, I do love to smoke... I mean... what would you do after ... ummm..sex.. if you don't smoke????Also, I am a considerate smoker.. I only sneak and smoke... that way , I won't offend anyone.. sooo..  but still.. How do you get out of bed in the morning... if there is no coffee and a cigarette ???? Excuse me, I am going to sneak outside ..."Check the mail"... or something...


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## dale (Jun 5, 2015)

Firemajic said:


> Wellllll, I do love to smoke... I mean... what would you do after ... ummm..sex.. if you don't smoke????



well, i think the non-smokers just roll over and fart.


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## Firemajic (Jun 5, 2015)

dale said:


> well, i think the non-smokers just roll over and fart.







:shock:  lmao.....[ lights another.................]


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## belthagor (Jun 5, 2015)

dale said:


> well, i don't like the smell of fat people, personally. but you don't see me calling for them to be banned from restaurants.



or banned altogether: http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/japans-metabo-law-where-being-overweight-is-illegal/
if you don't trust that source, just google "Japan bans obesity" and you'll find a thousand sources

Fat people smell based on what they eat and drink, not because they are fat. http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2013...smell-sweet-8-foods-that-make-you-smell-great
......and the same goes for skinny people and all others in between.


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## Phil Istine (Jun 5, 2015)

dale said:


> well, i think the non-smokers just roll over and fart.



That's right.  I only have sex so that I can fart with a clear conscience.


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## Terry D (Jun 5, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> I can't understand why non-smokers seem to think it's okay to question the intelligence of smokers, and have no aversion to using derogatory terms when talking about smokers. Apparently smoking makes us lesser human beings...



Where has anyone done that? I've read where people consider the act of smoking stupid, but no one has commented on the intellegence of the smoker. Smart people do stupid things all the time. That doesn't make them less intelligent, or the act less stupid from the commentor's perspective.

In my opinion smoking is in the same ballpark with nose picking, tongue-studs, and really bad personal hygiene. I've known very smart people who did all those things. Doesn't change my opinon of the behavior.


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## InnerFlame00 (Jun 5, 2015)

Firemajic said:


> How do you get out of bed in the morning...if there is no coffee and a cigarette ????  Excuse me, I am going to sneak outside ..."Check the mail"... or  something...



I drink 16 oz of water, do ten minutes of exercise, and eat a piece of dark chocolate. Works great for me! I can't have coffee because too much caffeine all at once gives me heart palpitations. I can have tea but I always save that for the afternoon sleepies. I've never had trouble waking up in the morning as long as I've had a proper amount of sleep. I'm fully awake within 15 minutes if not instantly. I'm not sure if that's just me, or if that's simply how the human body works without a morning caffeine boost?



belthagor said:


> Fat people smell based on what they eat and drink, not because they are fat. http://renegadehealth.com/blog/2013...smell-sweet-8-foods-that-make-you-smell-great......and the same goes for skinny people and all others in between.



It's true. You really are what you eat. And if you eat certain foods you will be stinky. There are lots of other factors involved too, but obestiy isn't really a big factor involved there. Met plenty of stinky skinny people before lol.

Anyway, personally I think smoking is stupid but I'm sure people would find some of my habits stupid too. We're all entitled to our choices and our opinions. Just so long as someone's choices aren't hurting me I could care less what they do. So people who smoke can just stay away from me. That and people who wear too much perfume.


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## Plasticweld (Jun 5, 2015)

dale said:


> i can actually drum up an actual court ruling which ruled that the epa falsified their info, if you want. it's the phillip morris case.
> the EPA exaggerated everything for an agenda, and a federal court ruled they did in fact do that.




Dale taking junk science to the next level?

Warning Smoking causes Climate Change

If you love the world you will not smoke, you are endangering and entire planet 

Where is the dam Sarcasm button when you need it :}


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## Darkkin (Jun 6, 2015)

I have major allergies to smoke, have had all my life, just something I don't or won't ever do.  I actually grew up in one of the first areas to ban smoking from eating establishments, bars, public forums, and college campuses.  Having been raised in this bubble; it comes as a bit of a shock to see how common smoking is in other areas.  The smoking ban is something folks in my region take for granted and I know we shouldn't.


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## Kyle R (Jun 6, 2015)

When my father worked full-time, he would drive home at night and fall asleep at the wheel. He would weave around the road and sometimes wake up at home, not realizing how he made it back. When I talked to him about it, he said (paraphrasing): "I know I shouldn't, but I'm okay. Nothing bad has happened so far."

I view smoking in a similar way. A smoker might say, "Yeah, it's dangerous, but I'm okay. Nothing bad has happened so far." But why risk it? Are you not concerned by all the people who develop cancer from it?

Just like falling asleep while driving, you could do it for decades and have nothing bad happen—but all it takes is one time, one head-on collision or one doctor appointment where they find a spot in your lungs, and suddenly all those seemingly inconsequential risks turn into very consequential regrets.

Just my view on it. I don't think anything bad about smokers, but I wish they wouldn't do it, for their own sake. But perhaps they don't think it's as dangerous as I think it is.

Me, I see the word _*CANCER*_ floating over the head of each person I spot puffing on a cigarette, like a hungry octopus, its tentacles slithering down toward the person with each new puff. Closer, closer . . .


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## shadowwalker (Jun 6, 2015)

Kyle R said:


> But perhaps they don't think it's as dangerous as I think it is.



I could walk across the street and get hit by a truck - so should I not cross streets? Should people not sky-dive? Not drive race cars? Never do _anything _that has an even chance of killing you? I had a friend, years ago, who was told by her doctors to quit smoking, quit drinking, quit eating this and that - she ignored it. She lived another 10-12 years, died in her early sixties, but said many, many times: "If I have to give up all the things I enjoy doing just so I'll live longer, what's the point?".


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## belthagor (Jun 6, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> I could walk across the street and get hit by a truck - so should I not cross streets? Should people not sky-dive? Not drive race cars? Never do _anything _that has an even chance of killing you? I had a friend, years ago, who was told by her doctors to quit smoking, quit drinking, quit eating this and that - she ignored it. She lived another 10-12 years, died in her early sixties, but said many, many times: "If I have to give up all the things I enjoy doing just so I'll live longer, what's the point?".



Sorry but I agree with Kyle R on this one. Crossing the street, unless someone is drunk or something and wont stop their car is usually safe almost each time. Having a smoke has a very very tiny amount almost insignificant amount of damage, but it is each time you do it, so it wouldn't be comparative to a random gamble, but more of a calculated gamble.

Smoking has a risk of harming you eventually, because the tiny amounts will build up. The gamble is if your body is strong enough to withstand the bad effects in the long run.

I rarely smoke, even though I do smoke.


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## BobtailCon (Jun 8, 2015)

Too many writers lost to the tougher drugs, not I.


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## shadowwalker (Jun 8, 2015)

belthagor said:


> Crossing the street, unless someone is drunk or something and wont stop their car is usually safe almost each time. Having a smoke has a very very tiny amount almost insignificant amount of damage, but it is each time you do it, so it wouldn't be comparative to a random gamble, but more of a calculated gamble.



But sky-diving and race car driving? And depending on the street, or how big a hurry one is in ("I'll jaywalk just this once...") ... Life's full of decisions that could kill or cripple. Just taking a job in factory A versus factory B could do that.


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## ppsage (Jun 8, 2015)

What I don't get is why anybody cares if anybody else is being healthy. We've already got thirty or eighty per cent more people than we'll ever need on this globe. Things would get way better if a lot of you all would just die. I encourage everybody to smoke cigarettes while you skydive and then to fall asleep while you drive your race car across the street.


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## Meteli (Jun 8, 2015)

I am allergic to some of the many stuff that is in tobacco smoke. It makes my eyes water and sometimes so bad that I look like I am crying. Cigar smoke is so bad that I am practically really crying. I just did not like the smell of mari so I have not tried it. I was once in a party where some african boys had brought a hookah, or waterpipe that was used to smoke flavored tobacco and because it was so exotic for me, I did try that and had no any ill effects from the smoke, but I have not tried smoking ordinary cigarettes ever.


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## Dave Billig (Jul 24, 2015)

Nope. Childhood asthma conditioned me against even being around smoke, even though I got over the asthma.


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## McJibbles (Jul 25, 2015)

know a lot of smokers. Feel really bad for them. It becomes apart of your brain, neurological makeup. You NEED it. If you don't think it's killing you, you're lying to yourself. The Red Foxx quote is pretty dead on. Eventually you're going out like you came in. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, ashtrays to ashtrays. Coffin Nails and Cancersticks aren't the only problem either. Americans like to eat. Watched that kill a lot of them. Prescription meds. Hell, a bad attitude can kill you.

The only reason I don't participate in stuff like that is because I like having full potential and possibility. I want to hang on to the good stuff as long as I can. Running and breathing and things like that. If others want to do that, fine, just don't do it around me.


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## Allysan (Jul 25, 2015)

I started smoking when I was 14 and didn't quit until I was 24 and pregnant. I thought I would never quit. Then again I thought id never have babies or get married either. What a hypocrite I've made of myself and I'm not even mad about it.


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## AtleanWordsmith (Jul 25, 2015)

I tried smoking once.  My experience consisted mostly of an unpleasant reminder that I have asthma.  0 out of 5 stars, would not recommend.


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## KLJo (Jul 25, 2015)

I LOVE smoking. It is the perfect, relaxing, way to curl up and think or day dream.

Don't worry about all your rude comments though, dear posters. I'm a perfume-free, organic, vegetarian, who will probably outlive you. 

In all seriousness, THAT is the thing that bugs me--the classless way that people talk about smokers. Non-smokers, aka the majority, have somehow banded together to act like their parents didn't teach them a single thing about manners. 

We're outside, or in the privacy of our own homes. Back your cheap perfume, and obnoxious holier-than-though attitudes up, because there are TONS of illogical ways you contribute to your own demise, and I respect your right to make that choice. There is no person who will be shocked to hear, "those are bad for you," so what are you gaining by commenting except the joy of looking like a jerk? (Referring to real life comments, not this anonymous internet discussion, which is obviously a whole different animal)

I have relatives that died of obesity, and diabetes, but even in the face of those losses, I would never speak about someone else's lifestyle choices the way people talk about smokers. It is just poor form.

For the record, I've lost 4 Great Aunts and Uncles to lung cancer. If you went through it, I'm deeply sorry for your loss. However, that doesn't place you above the simple fact that it is absolutely obnoxious to opine, unsolicited, on my choices if we meet.


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## ShadowEyes (Jul 25, 2015)

My mother was always careful not to smoke in our family house. But my sister smokes in her house with her four children and it makes me so mad. I can't stand being in there for more than minutes at a time.

No, I don't smoke, but I hold a huge grudge against people who smoke in their house with dependents. I've found that the people who don't care about their own health often don't care about the health of others either.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 25, 2015)

ShadowEyes said:


> My mother was always careful not to smoke in our family house. But my sister smokes in her house with her four children and it makes me so mad. I can't stand being in there for more than minutes at a time.
> 
> No, I don't smoke, but I hold a huge grudge against people who smoke in their house with dependents. I've found that the people who don't care about their own health often don't care about the health of others either.



Ah, here we go again. Smokers - heartless selfish bastards, all of 'em!


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## KLJo (Jul 25, 2015)

ShadowEyes said:


> No, I don't smoke, but I hold a huge grudge against people who smoke in their house with dependents. I've found that the people who don't care about their own health often don't care about the health of others either.



I'm gonna gamble that you're American. Try to imagine you are if that is not the case. 

If you have a gun in your house it is 17x more likely to be used to harm your family than protect it. 
Now imagine the backlash if I started calling all gun owners horrible, disgusting, unfit parents, and demanded we strike down the 2nd ammendment.

This is similar logic to the case against 2nd hand smoke. 

I don't smoke in my house or in view of my children, but I also don't think I have the right to weigh-in to someone who does. They just get silently scratched off the "Potential babysitters" list, and get togethers must be at my house.

People are allowed to make bad choices. We cannot cherry-pick and micromanage them out of that freedom.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 25, 2015)

As far as that goes, who keeps bug spray in their cupboards unlocked? Who lets their kids around cars they're fixing up on jacks? Who leaves their kids for "just a moment" to get something from another aisle in the store?

BAD PARENTS!!!!!!

For the record, I smoked with my son in the house - he's healthy as a horse at age 33. Just ask his doctor, who can't see why he even comes in for a yearly checkup.


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## Bard_Daniel (Jul 25, 2015)

I'm currently in the process of quitting.

Nasty stuff, I feel stupid for ever starting.


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## Boofy (Jul 25, 2015)

Never touched a cigarette. I wanted to go into culinary. Smoking ruins your palate over time. That and it is bloody expensive. Oh, and the health problems it can cause too... totally my first thought. ;D


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## Angelicpersona (Jul 26, 2015)

Nah, never smoked besides a puff of a cigar here and there with my family in memory of my grandfather. Too addictive, too expensive, I have asthma, and I was taught to always smoke outside. I get cold in the winter going from my car into work - don't really want to freeze my ass off.


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## ShadowEyes (Jul 26, 2015)

KLJo said:


> ...demanded we strike down the 2nd ammendment.



It's ironic because we have a second amendment, which is hotly debated, but the issue of imbibing drugs rarely is. Except that one time when the Prohibition happened. 



> I also don't think I have the right to weigh-in to someone who does.



I believe that weighing in on this is about the _only_ thing that we _can_ do. We have to give people the benefit of the doubt. Therefore, it's purely a moral issue, which requires changing hearts and minds, rather than enacting laws.



> People are allowed to make bad choices. We cannot cherry-pick and micromanage them out of that freedom.



It's true we cannot micromanage adults. Adults, therefore, are given the authority to micromanage themselves and their children's health.



shadowwalker said:


> As far as that goes, who keeps bug spray in their cupboards unlocked? Who lets their kids around cars they're fixing up on jacks? Who leaves their kids for "just a moment" to get something from another aisle in the store?



I think there are a few differences between the rational uses of bug spray and cars as opposed to cigarettes, which leads to their misuse in moral areas as well.

Children cannot consent to the dangers of smoking, just like they cannot consent to the dangers of driving a car or using a gun. However, children _must_ consent to living in their houses. Notice, I'm not saying that smoking outside is wrong, but only in a specific rational instance. Therefore, residential second-hand smoking is the same type of moral judgement as locking a child into a car on a hot summer's day or leaving a gun loaded on the counter. To adults, the dangers are common sense. This puts the responsibility squarely in the adult's hands.

But to children, are the dangers common sense? Is it not true that a child may see the _use_ of a cigarette and thus may think lightly of its misuse? Cars go places and have seat belts. Guns shoot things and have safeties. How many children know about lung cancer? And how many police patrol houses? How many licenses do smokers need to smoke? And yet how much easier is it to get a pack of cigarettes in comparison to a gun or a car?

Cigarettes are not even beneficial on a purely theoretical level. They cannot protect a house, provide transportation, or be used as bug spray. Instead, they're used as a responsibility lever which the adult pulls down every time he or she lights up in the house. Which may cause children to want to smoke earlier. Which may cause children to know that their parents don't care about them.

Now, I'm not saying that this is the case everywhere, and I'm certainly not assuming anything about either of you, but I'm only biased because my sister is uncaring. However, if you think any of these are incorrect analogies, feel free to respond.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 26, 2015)

ShadowEyes said:


> Which may cause children to know that their parents don't care about them.



You're the second person in this thread to pull this crap. And that's exactly what it is - judgemental CRAP. Who the hell are you - or anyone else - to determine whether or not a parent who smokes doesn't care about their kids? 

You don't smoke. Well, good for you! That doesn't make you morally better than those who do.


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## Guy Faukes (Jul 26, 2015)

It appears that some of us have differing opinions regarding the social policies of smoking. 

May I suggest that these differences be settled privately or have the parties simply agree to disagree? I would not like to see the intent of this thread waylaid or have more serious, administrative action taken to quell any continued hostility.


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## bdcharles (Jul 26, 2015)

I was briefly a social smoker, but I quit, though I occasionally vape. I could no longer justify giving increasingly large sums of money to companies who don't so the same for me, plus the idea of being a forty year old smoker with two children put me off, so ... no.

I notice that on this issue - not wishing to dig it up, but unable to help myself - people are very vociferous on their right to smoke. I think what they are arguing for is their identity, and smoking forms a part of that. Despite my objections, it certainly did for my mother, a career huffer whose reaction to the eventual lung cancer diagnosis she received can be best summed up by the notion of "consequence free smoking." This pronouncement was followeed by a Hepburnesque "The horse, my dear, has bolted" and a circling flourish of the holding hand.

But that's her. I'm not paying £7.50 / US$12 a box.


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## Kyle R (Jul 26, 2015)

KLJo said:
			
		

> There is no person who will be shocked to hear, "those are bad for you," . . .


Actually, there are. Many smokers believe cigarette smoke is not harmful. Nearly one third of smokers (statistically speaking) believe smoking is harmful, but only at a frequency higher than what they themselves partake in.

My personal belief is that no amount of smoking is safe—that each and every cigarette smoked is harmful to the body. It's not like you open a pack and some cigarettes in there are harmful and the rest are benign. When smoked, they all contain the same carcinogens.

And I don't hold anything against smokers for making their own decisions about what to do with their own bodies. If you love to smoke, more power to you. Smoke away! I wouldn't expect to tell you to quit smoking anymore than I'd expect you to tell me to quit surfing the internet (which I really need to quit doing . . . especially when I should be writing, instead! ).

Though I hope that those who continue smoking will be able to do so without any health consequences. Good health is one of those things that I find many people (myself included) sometimes take for granted—at least until something threatens it. I think it sucks that cigarette smoke has the potential to damage one's health. It's unfair to smokers—as they don't deserve health consequences any more than anyone else.

I do know, though, that many smokers believe themselves to be safe from the harmful effects of cigarettes. I also know of many people for whom that belief, sadly, turned out to be false.

I hope one day they invent cigarettes that smokers can enjoy with zero health risks. That'd be pretty awesome. Then my only complaint would be the scent of it. 

Anyway, back to writing! :encouragement:


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## shadowwalker (Jul 26, 2015)

I doubt that many smokers don't accept the dangers, but then again, there are a lot of things in life where people say "Well, it can't happen to me.". I do think the dangers are overblown. After all, you've got a large segment of the medical conglomerate getting billions of dollars for research and another bunch making billions from "stop smoking" therapies and equipment (most of which don't work), so it's not surprising. You don't see this level of social shaming and scare tactics for radon (the #1 cause of lung cancer in non-smokers according to the EPA's studies) - but that's a lot easier (and inexpensive) to get rid of, thus people won't make as much money.

I personally think that the bigger deniers are the 'social drinkers' - God forbid anyone try to talk the actual costs of alcohol on society. And they really glommed onto that "one glass of wine a day is healthy" spiel, like dogs and bones, man...


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## KLJo (Jul 26, 2015)

Kyle R said:


> Actually, there are. Many smokers believe cigarette smoke is not harmful. Nearly one third of smokers (statistically speaking) believe smoking is harmful, but only at a frequency higher than what they themselves partake



That is not the same thing at all. 

To the smokers in the thread. The next time someone says, "those are bad for you," try looking incredulously at the cigarette and then them before throwing it on the ground and stomping it out as dramatically as possible. Thank them profusely for saving your life. Try to use the words, "hero" and "savior". 

The look on their face is hilarious.


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## AtleanWordsmith (Jul 26, 2015)

Almost makes me want to start smoking just so I can do that, haha.


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## Olly Buckle (Jul 26, 2015)

I gave up tobacco when I realised the implications. Be an addict, hand over large sums of money, die young, I don't think so, it's not even fun like some drugs. Let alone pay to benefit companies willing to lie and cheat to maintain control, and a government who spend it in ways I disapprove.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 26, 2015)

KLJo said:


> That is not the same thing at all.
> 
> To the smokers in the thread. The next time someone says, "those are bad for you," try looking incredulously at the cigarette and then them before throwing it on the ground and stomping it out as dramatically as possible. Thank them profusely for saving your life. Try to use the words, "hero" and "savior".
> 
> The look on their face is hilarious.



I had a particularly _obnoxious _stranger come up to me and rant at me that smoking was bad for my health - I replied that so was sticking one's nose in where it wasn't wanted.


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## Sunny (Jul 26, 2015)

I hate cigarette smoke. I don't want to breathe it at all. I hate that I have to hold my breath when I walk past someone who is smoking (outside of the mall or walking past me on the sidewalk). I hate that I can't open my living room window in the summer because our neighbours smoke outside and it blows in through our window. I've always hated that I have to smell someone else's choice to smoke. 

My mom smoked through her pregnancy with me (she stands by the "they didn't know what they know now" stance). Both of my parents smoked in our home and in the car when I was young. I remember crying and begging them to stop so much, they got tired of listening to me, and they both quit when I was five years old. 

Thank goodness I was such a whiner. My parents have both been non-smokers for the past 30 years now and I'll likely have them in my life for many years longer, cancer free, (hopefully)  because of my constant bitching at them!  

If someone wants to smoke, I say go for it, I just wish I didn't have to breathe it when I'm near them. 

All of those other things that are "bad" for us that have been discussed in this thread might very well be bad choices... but they don't affect me. 

Someone who drinks a lot of alcohol around me, doesn't affect my liver. Someone who injects drugs around me, doesn't affect my brain. Someone who keeps a gun under their kitchen cabinet, doesn't endanger me. Someone who doesn't wear a seatbelt, doesn't risk my life. 

Secondhand smoke affects all of us that are exposed to it. I just wish I didn't have to worry about my health because of someone else's choice. Plus, it's stinky.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 26, 2015)

Sunny said:


> Someone who drinks a lot of alcohol around me, doesn't affect my liver.



Unless that's one of the body parts destroyed when that drunk driver plows into your car, or runs over you in the crosswalk, or beats you senseless in a drunken rage.



Sunny said:


> Someone who injects drugs around me, doesn't affect my brain.



See above.



Sunny said:


> Someone who keeps a gun under their kitchen cabinet, doesn't endanger me.



Until they get drunk or high or just plain angry and decide to shoot up the mall you're in. Or they get careless and their kid shoots you "by accident".



Sunny said:


> Someone who doesn't wear a seatbelt, doesn't risk my life.



But, along with drugs and alcohol, it contributes to higher and higher insurance rates as we pay for the additional medical and civil costs involved when an accident takes place. But those are all costs that people don't want to think about - because drugs and alcohol and guns and seatbelts don't "stink".


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## Sunny (Jul 26, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> Unless that's one of the body parts destroyed when that drunk driver plows into your car, or runs over you in the crosswalk, or beats you senseless in a drunken rage.
> 
> See above.
> 
> ...



Those reasons that you mention would be the _person_ doing something bad with those substances. I'm not saying I dislike the _smoker_. I dislike the smoke. I dislike that I am forced to inhale someone else's smoke when they are smoking near me. 

I am not forced to drink someone else's whiskey when they drink beside me at the bar. I am not forced to snort someones coke when I'm with them at a party. I am not going to be affected by someone's food choices when I'm sitting beside them in a restaurant. It's not like their burger will clog my arteries.

If a person sitting beside me in the restaurant decides to light up a cigarette, their secondhand smoke _does_ affect my health. That's why I don't like it.


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## KLJo (Jul 26, 2015)

Sunny said:


> Thank goodness I was such a whiner. My parents have both been non-smokers for the past 30 years now and I'll likely have them in my life for many years longer, cancer free, (hopefully)  because of my constant bitching at them!



The truth is that you'll have them smoking-cancer-free because of math. The lung cancer rate amongst female smokers is something like 1:200. To put that in to perspective, your odds of dying from a motor vehicle crash are 1:112.

SERIOUSLY GUYS, STOP DRIVING! IT IS SOOO BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH.
:roll eyes:

Their time would've been better spent on manners. We are already outside and 50 yards from door. Anyone who tells you THAT exposure to 2nd hand smoke, or the bit that might waft in your balconey, is going to effect your health, is an absolute, no questions, hands-down, liar.

So it becomes a question of smell. Well, I HATE all perfumes and colognes. Seriously, I don't care how much they paid, or what celebrity loves that brand. To me, they smell like a 70's used car salesmen looks. Sleazy, cheap, and eye-wateringly, headache-inducingly gross. 

I would never consider it appropriate to say that to someone in the real world. I live with my secret hatred and fight gagging everytime they're closed in the elevator or car with me without the luxury of sending them outside for their imposition. I don't know why non-smokers think they're any different.

Y'all need to realize that the average smoker, freezing outside, is much more considerate of your needs than you probably ever are to anyone else's. The real-life comments and insults reflect very poorly on you.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 26, 2015)

Sunny said:


> I am not forced to drink someone else's whiskey when they drink beside me at the bar. I am not forced to snort someones coke when I'm with them at a party.



This makes my point better, actually. I point out the actual dangers and costs involved with someone else drinking or doing drugs - and you repeat your contention that only voluntary participation creates a danger. And yet the 'victims' in my examples have no more choice in the matter than a non-smoker. Probably less (esp considering the slap on the wrist most drunk drivers get).


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## Sunny (Jul 26, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> This makes my point better, actually. I point out the actual dangers and costs involved with someone else drinking or doing drugs - and you repeat your contention that only voluntary participation creates a danger. And yet the 'victims' in my examples have no more choice in the matter than a non-smoker. Probably less (esp considering the slap on the wrist most drunk drivers get).


I don't like drinking and driving either. I don't like any of those dangers that you talked about. Who would? Of course they are tragic. Just as it would be tragic for someone who doesn't smoke to suffer health implications from those that choose to smoke. 

Smoking is the topic that was being discussed here and I voiced that I don't like to inhale secondhand smoke. 

I hope people stop drinking and driving and killing the innocent. I hope people stop shooting innocent bystanders. I hope people stop molesting children. I hope old people stop being beaten in old age homes. There are so many bad things in the world, yes, but they weren't the subject of this thread. All of those other things are bad, but that doesn't mean that I like to breathe secondhand smoke, or should be tolerant of it because there are other worse things in the world that could get me killed. 

Smoking is dangerous. Those that choose to do it and endanger their own health is fine. Go ahead. I just don't want to be involved and suffer consequences because I'm around _their_ choice.



			
				KLJo said:
			
		

> The truth is that you'll have them smoking-cancer-free because of math. The lung cancer rate amongst female smokers is something like 1:200. To put that in to perspective, your odds of dying from a motor vehicle crash are 1:112.
> 
> SERIOUSLY GUYS, STOP DRIVING! IT IS SOOO BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH.
> :roll eyes:
> ...


No amount of secondhand smoke is okay. I don't want those chemicals in my lungs at all. Whether it's coming straight from someones mouth into mine, or it's floating in through my living room window, secondhand smoke is secondhand smoke. It's harmful for me and my family. 

I'm not going to tell someone who smokes to stop (unless it's a family member and I care about them). I'm not going to tell a co-worker that I don't like to smell it when they are smoking in their designated smoking area. I _will_ voice my opinion on a forum about smoking and my views on it when asked in a thread. 

I'm not a fan of perfume either. If there was a thread asking if I liked it, I'd say no to that too.


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## KLJo (Jul 27, 2015)

Ugh, I actually considered posting to the "Things that annoy you" thread, that someone would respond to my post with the, "No second hand smoke is ok" tripe.

I'm hating myself so hard right now for missing out on that psychic opportunity!

Anyway, it's a dumb rebuttal. You breathe in pollution, car exhaust, carcinogenic new car smell, eat occassional junk or processed food, probably too much meat, have a champagne at a wedding--or whatever level you drink at.

And so on...x1,000,000

Being uppity about a second-long waft of smoke while you walk by under the pretense that it affects your health is simply not a valid argument. You dislike the smell.


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## KLJo (Jul 27, 2015)

Also, and this is VERY important...why does my phone think, "balconey" is a word?


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## Sunny (Jul 27, 2015)

KLJo said:


> Ugh, I actually considered posting to the "Things that annoy you" thread, that someone would respond to my post with the, "No second hand smoke is ok" tripe.
> 
> I'm hating myself so hard right now for missing out on that opportunity!
> 
> ...


Just because I breathe in other carcinogens from things I can't control doesn't mean I should like breathing in cigarette smoke. I wish I didn't have to breathe in car exhaust, pollution _or_ secondhand smoke. 

If people around me are smoking, I'm forced to breathe it in too, whether I want to or not. I can't hold my breath that long! 

If I'm being uppity because I don't want to breathe in secondhand smoke... then call me uppity.


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## Kyle R (Jul 27, 2015)

For those interested:

The Center for Disease Control (www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/health_effects/index.htm) and the American Lung Association (www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/health-effects/secondhand-smoke.html) are very clear about the (apparently debatable) dangers of secondhand smoke.


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## KLJo (Jul 27, 2015)

Sunny said:


> Just because I breathe in other carcinogens from things I can't control doesn't mean I should like breathing in cigarette smoke. I wish I didn't have to breathe in car exhaust, pollution _or_ secondhand smoke.
> 
> If people around me are smoking, I'm forced to breathe it in too, whether I want to or not. I can't hold my breath that long!
> 
> If I'm being uppity because I don't want to breathe in secondhand smoke... then call me uppity.





Kyle R said:


> For those interested:
> 
> The Center for Disease Control (www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/health_effects/index.htm) and the American Lung Association (www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/health-effects/secondhand-smoke.html) are very clear about the (apparently debatable) dangers of secondhand smoke.



:facepalm:


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## shadowwalker (Jul 27, 2015)

I've probably mentioned this before, but I did a research paper on the research done on second-hand smoke. Talk about loading the deck! We're talking large numbers of cigarettes in small enclosed spaces - good god, might as well have checked it in a shower stall with 10 smokers going at it. Regardless, no one can tell me that merely walking past someone smoking in the open air is going to cause them health problems. Let's get real here, people. Unless you're living in a very new or retrofitted house, you're much more likely to get cancer from radon while sitting in your smoke-free living room than from walking past a smoker (or even a group of smokers).


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## Pluralized (Jul 27, 2015)

:deadhorse:


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## McJibbles (Jul 27, 2015)

You fools! Cigarettes are the new health food! They were growing unpopular in the states so we started shipping them overseas. Turns out, whenever those commercials come on for feeding the African orphans with just 5 dollars a day, the non profit organization just feeds them packs of cigarettes. Each serving contains all the vitamins and nutrients a growing child needs! Thankfully, the increasing amounts of cigarettes exported leave a surplus of junk food for fat Americans. Now everyone has access to Cancer, erhm, I mean food. If anyone is interested in buying some wholesale before they are gone, I'm also selling my collection of miniature light posts and DVD rewinders.


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## Olly Buckle (Jul 27, 2015)

McJibbles said:


> You fools! Cigarettes are the new health food! They were growing unpopular in the states so we started shipping them overseas. Turns out, whenever those commercials come on for feeding the African orphans with just 5 dollars a day, the non profit organization just feeds them packs of cigarettes. Each serving contains all the vitamins and nutrients a growing child needs! Thankfully, the increasing amounts of cigarettes exported leave a surplus of junk food for fat Americans. Now everyone has access to Cancer, erhm, I mean food. If anyone is interested in buying some wholesale before they are gone, I'm also selling my collection of miniature light posts and DVD rewinders.



Lol, remember that Woody Allen movie where he got transported to a future where they had discovered smoking and cholesterol were good for you, so everyone ate steak and smoked?


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## McJibbles (Jul 27, 2015)

No, but I should see that.


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## Terry D (Jul 27, 2015)

McJibbles said:


> No, but I should see that.



It called Sleeper. From 1973.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070707/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1


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## Kevin (Jul 27, 2015)

> is much more considerate of your needs than you probably ever are to anyone else's.


 So contrary to popular belief, the world is not their ashtray.


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## KLJo (Jul 27, 2015)

Kevin said:


> So contrary to popular belief, the world is not their ashtray.



Littering is a problem. It drives me crazy when you're driving down the highway and the shoulders and boulevards are covered with trash.

That sort of inconsiderate behaviour isn't really relevant to this discussion though.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 28, 2015)

KLJo said:


> Littering is a problem. It drives me crazy when you're driving down the highway and the shoulders and boulevards are covered with trash.
> 
> That sort of inconsiderate behaviour isn't really relevant to this discussion though.



Exactly. Littering is not confined to smokers - and most businesses/employers who have no smoking rules generally put out ashcans for the butts. If they don't, well, that's kinda like not having trashcans in picnic areas, isn't it? (ie, pretty stupid)


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## Kevin (Jul 28, 2015)

So you guys don't throw your cigarette butts? Cool... yeah me either ... I don't throw my trash, either, just cuz there's no can.... no, I take it with me until I find one. Bet you guys do that too, put your little cigarette butts out, put them in your pocket or hold them in your hand until you find a can or ashtray or whatever. How many times a day, I wonder? Unless your home all the time... cool. I only mentioned it because someone brought up that smokers are more considerate. And before that there was some mention of throwing things down and stomping them, which I'm sure was pure metaphor, not real.


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## shadowwalker (Jul 28, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Bet you guys do that too, put your little cigarette butts out, put them in your pocket or hold them in your hand until you find a can or ashtray or whatever.



Actually, I do exactly that. When the family goes walking on nature trails, there are no ashtrays, only an occasional trash can. So yes, the butts go in my pocket or baggie until I can dump them responsibly - same as I do with pop cans or other trash. But I understand how some people think all smokers are irresponsible jerks. Stereotypes are so much easier to deal with than reality.


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## Kevin (Jul 28, 2015)

I bow... thank you, ma'am. I've had friends travel to Scandinavia. Their asides regarding refuse/litter and the lack thereof make me feel embarrassed.


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## KLJo (Jul 28, 2015)

I'm both the one who said, "more considerate" and the person who made the joke about dramatic stomping. 

I've actually done the dramatic stomp several times, and each time after the joke is played out I clean up my mess.

Re: cigarette litter.
I'm the same as Shadow Walker. I rarely smoke outside my home, but when I do the butt goes in a receptacle or sealed in a ziploc bag in my purse until I find one.

Further, I use the little baggies like gloves to pick up litter while I'm outside smoking, and always volunteer to be a part of the clean up crew. The only time you run into a problem with cigarette butt litter is usually when some non-smoker abandons all common sense and places the receptacle somewhere moronic.

Example, I was in a wedding recently and the venue chose to put the can across a field of ornamental gravel and soft grass instead of anywhere in the football field size parking lot.

6 smoking bridesmaids with no purse in ankle length, crinolined, taffeta and high heels cannot walk across that. We accumulated quite a pile of butts around the corner of the lot over the 8 hours of hair, make up, photos, etc. Which we cleaned up later, but guests parking on that side of the lot probably saw.

We'll go outside, we'll walk the required number of yards, hold our breath when a non-smoker walks by, and we'll use the receptacle, but placing it that awkwardly and then labeling the temporary alternate arrangements as "inconsiderate" would be a double-standard.


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## Kevin (Jul 28, 2015)

> We'll go outside, we'll walk the required number of yards, hold our breath when a non-smoker walks by, and we'll use the receptacle, but placing it that awkwardly and then labeling the temporary alternate arrangements as "inconsiderate" would be a double-standard


. Mmm... that might be acceptable... I'll have get back to you on it...


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## belthagor (Sep 27, 2015)

*Necro of value*

So I re-read some of the replies in this thread, and felt I needed to say that I really don't want to divide the community over something like this.

Also I quit smoking, no health reasons, just felt like stopping. What do you think?

edit: but I might keep my avatar


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 27, 2015)

Good. You'll thank yourself later.


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## Arthur G. Mustard (Sep 27, 2015)

They told me cigarettes were bad for my health,  so I switched to cigars!!!.

Only joking, ain't touched one in 14 years.


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## dale (Sep 27, 2015)

Arthur G. Mustard said:


> They told me cigarettes were bad for my health,  so I switched to cigars!!!.
> 
> Only joking, ain't touched one in 14 years.



i have actually switched to a briarwood pipe, now. go to this really nice tobacco shop with all these great smelling
tobaccos in jars. it is better for me because i rarely inhale the smoke. plus i walk around thinking i'm basil rathbone off an old sherlock holmes movie.


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