# Survival Skills



## Circadian

The closest I've ever come to living in the wilderness was when I went camping in a comfy trailer with a working stove and convenient outhouse.  Needless to say, I wouldn't last a week on my own.  What I'm getting at here is that my characters (teens) are instantly transported to a jungle environment and must learn how to survive.  They didn't know this was going to happen, so they don't have any matches or ropes with them or anything.  No cell phones or GPS.  This isn't about getting to civilization because there is no civilization to get to.  It's just about surviving.  There are, however, dangerous predators lurking in this jungle.  The temperature is pretty warm so I don't have to worry about them freezing to death.  There will be a river...somewhere.  There is plenty of vegetation but my characters don't know which is edible and which isn't.  I'd rather they didn't all die within the week.

Any tips?


----------



## Potty

Have one o them eat a couple of tomatoes before they get transported. That way when they have a poo next some tomatoe plants will start growing (The seeds often survive the digestive process.) I always eat tomatoes before I get on a plane, just in case. 

There are a number of survival techniques I could go into, but not much you could work out without some basic training. 

some reading material:

Lord of the flies: Lord of the Flies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Castaway (Film)
Lost (TV series.)


----------



## moderan

Um. Les Stroud. Google the name.


----------



## dolphinlee

There is an SAS survival guide that a lot of teenagers in my country bought because it was macho. There must be an equivalent 'elite division' survival in any country.  Have a look in the local library or on line. 

Maybe one of your characters read from one of these sources.


----------



## Kevin

They could get lucky and find an obvious food source, like fruit/nut trees that the monkies are eating from.


----------



## Olly Buckle

One of the main keys would be fire, even if it is warm. Cooking food and boiling water makes nutrients more available by breaking down cells and reduces risks from infection, and that is just the beginning, think fire hardened spear points for example. Once they have it they would do well to keep it, that is a lot easier than re-making it, especially in a damp jungle. They would also do well to split it so if they lose it in one place they still have it in another.


----------



## Circadian

These kids are pretty smart, so I know they'll be able to get a fire going, they'll try to find the nearest source of fresh water, and they'll know the importance of making weapons or traps in order to hunt their food.  They'll just have to get over their squeamishness.  As for plants...well, let's just say this story takes place in a time so far from our own that monkeys haven't evolved yet.  Most of the plant life is stuff that doesn't exist in this time, so I'm a little wary about making my characters eat any of the stuff.  It's mostly Cretaceous plant life but I'm no botonist so I don't know what would be safe to eat or not.


----------



## shadowwalker

I would say they should have had some kind of training - a Boy Scout type thing, maybe parents who were into roughing it - but to dump some kids into a jungle like that w/o anything... They're going to have a hard enough time learning the hunting habits of the predators, so they should have at least some basic knowledge of surviving otherwise.


----------



## Kevin

Eggs... dino eggs, bird eggs, reptile eggs. Might be kind of hard to find, though. Fish, fish would be a good bet; shells, like clams and mussels.


----------



## Olly Buckle

An advantage of being that far back would be that if the mammals have not evolved neither would most of the diseases that affect them, including parasites like tape worms I am guessing. Fish and flesh should be safe, but avoid offal like liver where there may be a build up of toxins, especially among predators. although there are groups, such as Eskimos, who live on a mainly meat diet doing so from an early age affects their metabolism so they can not digest starches but get good use from fats and oils, another factor is that their diet is largely marine. These kids would suffer on a meat only diet, grasses are pretty ancient and mostly innocuous, both seed and leaves


----------



## Lewdog

Bugs!  Eating bugs and worms may sound nasty but they are all over the place and contain some of the highest protein to mass ratio of anything on the planet.  Grub worms and grasshoppers are probably your best bets.


----------



## Nee

Then first thing they'll be dealing with is parasites and insets. A tropical forest environment is incredibly harsh. I don't think they'd stand a chance without some kind of survival equipment: a knife, a flint, something to carry water in at the very least. If you want this to remain within the bounds of possibilities them you are going to need to give them something to help them stay alive: because they will not, without help.


----------



## Potty

I was pretty into my dinosaurs etc as a kid. There is a good chance you'll have a dino boffin amongst the group. I remember reading about a plant, looked a lot like a lilly, that had the same texture and taste of a beef steak. One of your kids could know this? Or maybe I was just dreaming of a world made of steak again. 

You could have your kids watch other animals to see what plants they eat and which they avoid, giving them a good idea of what they might be able to stomach... then use the weakling kid as a guineapig.


----------



## Lewdog

Nee said:


> Then first thing they'll be dealing with is parasites and insets. A tropical forest environment is incredibly harsh. I don't think they'd stand a chance without some kind of survival equipment: a knife, a flint, something to carry water in at the very least. If you want this remain within the bounds of possibilities them you are going to need to give them something to help them stay alive: because they will not, without help.



Yes bugs that eat green leafy foliage can be dangerous because of the high alkaloid levels.  The reason poison tree frogs are poisonous is because they eat bugs that eat the green foliage and that in turn makes the frogs poisonous.  Now as far as grubs go, they eat dead plant matter and would be less likely to be poisonous.  They would have to eat some kind of fruit because without vitamin C they would begin to get scurvy.


----------



## Erwin

I have yet to master the art of creating fire. Though I used to rub sticks before as an experiment, it never actually produced smoke.
...or am I doing it wrong, and should I just buy that tiny gadget that makes sparks?


----------



## Nee

Erwin said:


> I just buy that tiny gadget that makes sparks.



Yes...that works.


----------



## Olly Buckle

It works at making sparks, turning them into fire is still difficult, if they are going to have something with them better one has a lighter, any gadget will fail in the end, best do what most primitive people do and keep the fire going once they have it. A continuous fire will also deter predators and give them a regular, important task that will put pressure on the group and help the storyline along.


----------



## Lewdog

Fire will be essential for making water safe to drink, in addition to keeping predators away.  They could make fire by taking a shoe string and making the bow to use with a stick to grind into a piece of wood to make cinders.  You just have to be creative...


----------



## Olly Buckle

I know fire bows work, I have seen film of them, but when the kids were little we tried various basic things,like gathering wool and weaving or digging clay and making pots for example, and I can tell you making fire was by far the hardest. The friction = heat equation is pretty simple but the practicality of producing enough heat in one place where there is dry tinder to catch is a lot different.

There is a great description in Mark Twain's 'Roughing it' of trying to light a fire in a snow storm, after using up their last couple of matches they remember the cowboy stories of lighting a fire with the flash from a pistol, and after much toil gathering a small heap of perfect tinder they blow it apart and spread it across the prarie. It is fiction, you can take your choice and make the fire simple and inconsequential or make it something difficult to be achieved that then puts a strain on the group in order to maintain it, I reckon there is much more story potential in the latter, regardless of veracity.


----------



## Nee

Friction fire starting is very tough. And in a wet environment like a rain forest I wouldn't think those who have never done it before would have the slightest chance of success. I can do it, but it would take me at least an hour just to gather (and assemble )  all the parts I'd need to even start.


----------



## Hemlock

If all else fails, wait for a random lighting strike in the nearest tree branch you can find... which can take like... forever.


----------



## shadowwalker

If one of them wears glasses, they can start a fire. We did that as kids - much to my mother's great dismay!


----------



## Sam

If your characters have never done it before, it will be virtually impossible for them to start a fire using friction. The first mistake people make in this case is that they choose any lump of wood they can get their hands on. There are certain types which are conducive to creating an ember and then a flame: juniper, aspen, cedar, and cypress trees are among the best sources of firewood. The wood will have to be _bone dry. _You'll need to make a tinder pile of material that catches fire quickly: dry grass and leaves will work. You'll also need a piece of flat wood to act as a fire board. With whatever sharp tools you have at hand, fashion a V-shaped groove out of the fire board. This is where your spindle will sit. Start rolling the spindle between your hands while maintaining pressure on the board, until you've created an ember. Gently tap your fire board to drop the ember onto your tinder pile and continue until the fire takes hold. 

If one of your characters has a flint and steel set, this process will be much easier. Even a piece of quartzite and a pocket knife will work. If all else fails, take an empty coke can and a bar of chocolate. Polish the bottom of the can using the chocolate. You'll have essentially created a parabolic mirror. Point the can at the sunlight and place the tinder pile about an inch from the focal point of the ensuing light. You'll have a fire in a matter of seconds. 

Survival in a forest or woods is largely about mindset. Some people lament the chain of events that conspired to put them in that situation, an often fatal mistake. Others panic and never calm down enough to consider rational solutions to the problem. The first thing that needs to be done is rationing of food and water. This schedule has to be adhered to no matter how hungry or thirsty one becomes. Someone needs to be appointed leader - self or at the behest of everyone. Squabbling over who makes decisions is a sure-fire way of creating animosity instead of camaraderie. The leader has to be set in stone from the offset. S/he will organise teams to scour the forest for materials: firewood, food, provisions. S/he will organise recon groups to charter the territory and its dangers. This person will need to be strong-willed, a quick thinker, and generally well-liked. But s/he mustn't be a sycophant. Hard decisions will have to be made without concern for the feelings of others. A true leader never compromises the integrity of the unit. 

If there are animals in the vicinity, weapons may need to be fashioned. This will only be applicable for smaller animals and herbivores. Trying to kill a brown bear with a bow and arrow or wooden spear is a death sentence. A perimeter around camp will need to be maintained, and everyone will have to take watch-duty shifts. Fire will deter most animals, but a bear will not always be intimidated by it. All food will have to be sealed or it will attract wildlife. It's usually wise to keep food away from your tents entirely. Have one place for eating, and another for sleeping. *Never* bring food into your tent. Never toss aside food wrappers or tins. Dig a hole and bury them. 

All of these are paramount to surviving long periods of time in the wilderness.


----------



## Circadian

shadowwalker said:


> If one of them wears glasses, they can start a fire. We did that as kids - much to my mother's great dismay!



It just so happens one of my characters _does _where glasses.  And I'm pretty sure at least one of them has a backpack that wasn't completely destroyed in transit.  Maybe there's something useful in there...

Also, one of my characters is pretty brainy so he'll be able to figure things out and probably end up being the leader anyway.  I think another character used to go out hunting with his dad so he should know some useful survival skills.

All in all, thanks for the replies and I'll definitely take what you all said into account.  My characters WILL survive!


----------



## Lewdog

Circadian said:


> It just so happens one of my characters _does _where glasses.  And I'm pretty sure at least one of them has a backpack that wasn't completely destroyed in transit.  Maybe there's something useful in there...
> 
> Also, one of my characters is pretty brainy so he'll be able to figure things out and probably end up being the leader anyway.  I think another character used to go out hunting with his dad so he should know some useful survival skills.
> 
> All in all, thanks for the replies and I'll definitely take what you all said into account.  My characters WILL survive!



The best way to capture animals to feed on and the most safe, is snare traps.


----------



## Circadian

I just went and checked out the SAS Survival Guide.  There's some interesting stuff in there.


----------



## Olly Buckle

> Also, one of my characters is pretty brainy so he'll be able to figure things out and probably end up being the leader anyway


Often not a leadership quality, the brainy ones often end up the leader's right hand man.


----------



## egpenny

One of the kids could have a rusty nail in his pocket, then all they'd have to do is find a flint-like outcropping and they'd have a fire striker.  Also TV and movies can provide a lot of survival in the wilds information, just make sure they've watched the right ones.  Still, the food situation is going to make them sick.  Bugs and grubs would be good to eat, well maybe not good, but practical.  If they need spice for the bugs try ants, they taste peppery.


----------



## Nee

Olly Buckle said:


> Often not a leadership quality, the brainy ones often end up the leader's right hand man.



Yeah...it's always better to be number two.





...er...you know what I mean. 

:- P


----------



## Whisper

Circadian said:


> These kids are pretty smart, so I know they'll be able to get a fire going, they'll try to find the nearest source of fresh water, and they'll know the importance of making weapons or traps in order to hunt their food.  They'll just have to get over their squeamishness.  As for plants...well, let's just say this story takes place in a time so far from our own that monkeys haven't evolved yet.  Most of the plant life is stuff that doesn't exist in this time, so I'm a little wary about making my characters eat any of the stuff.  It's mostly Cretaceous plant life but I'm no botonist so I don't know what would be safe to eat or not.



Well, if there are any Sleestacks in this, I'm guessing Sid and Marty Croft's lawyers will be in touch.


----------



## Whisper

shadowwalker said:


> I would say they should have had some kind of training - a Boy Scout type thing, maybe parents who were into roughing it - but to dump some kids into a jungle like that w/o anything... They're going to have a hard enough time learning the hunting habits of the predators, so they should have at least some basic knowledge of surviving otherwise.



Yeah, I think you may have painted yourslef in a corner. My advice is to rethink this just a little bit. Plopping them in the middle of nothing with nothing and expecting them to survive is a bit harsh. A man in the poorest drug infested part of the city dressed in a suit made of $100 bills would probably have a better chance of surviving then a bunch of kids with no supplies and no training in the dino era. Of course, if your goal is to see how many ways kids can die in the dino era, I'd say you have a story.


----------



## Lewdog

Whisper said:


> Yeah, I think you may have painted yourslef in a corner. My advice is to rethink this just a little bit. Plopping them in the middle of nothing with nothing and expecting them to survive is a bit harsh. A man in the poorest drug infested part of the city dressed in a suit made of $100 bills would probably have a better chance of surviving then a bunch of kids with no supplies and no training in the dino era. Of course, if your goal is to see how many ways kids can die in the dino era, I'd say you have a story.



The kid in "Jurassic Park III" survived for months alone on the island filled with dinosaurs.


----------



## Whisper

Lewdog said:


> The kid in "Jurassic Park III" survived for months alone on the island filled with dinosaurs.



Yeah, in a man-made metal bunker that had supplies.


----------



## Lewdog

Whisper said:


> Yeah, in a man-made metal bunker that had supplies.



It was actually under a turned over bus I believe.  You don't think the island will have caves?


----------



## Whisper

Lewdog said:


> It was actually under a turned over bus I believe.  You don't think the island will have caves?



Beats me. It's his story, but I'm going to go with probably not, since he's trying to kill them anyway.:wink:

Still, a cave is only going to get you so far.

Well, hopefully, there is a turned over bus on this island of dinos


----------



## Olly Buckle

Whisper said:


> Yeah, I think you may have painted yourslef in a corner. My advice is to rethink this just a little bit. Plopping them in the middle of nothing with nothing and expecting them to survive is a bit harsh. A man in the poorest drug infested part of the city dressed in a suit made of $100 bills would probably have a better chance of surviving then a bunch of kids with no supplies and no training in the dino era. Of course, if your goal is to see how many ways kids can die in the dino era, I'd say you have a story.


People in stories don't have to live by the pragmatic rules of every day necessarily, Bruce Willis should never have survived even the first of the 'Die hard' series and Raymond Chandler's heroes can be in a conflict situation for up to three days without sleep and still operating. If the reader wants escapist adventure they will suspend their disbelief over the most ridiculous things. It's fiction.


----------



## Erwin

Lewdog said:


> The best way to capture animals to feed on and the most safe, is snare traps.


It's also handy to know which animals are actually edible, poisonous, etc...


----------



## Olly Buckle

Erwin said:


> It's also handy to know which animals are actually edible, poisonous, etc...


Very few animals are poisonous, avoid the livers of carnivores and fish that don't look like fish and you are mostly okay. More likely are parasites, such as tapeworms and flukes, very thorough cooking can usually deal with them. However, if they are in a prehistoric world where mammals have not evolved yet neither will their parasites, or many of their diseases.


----------



## Sam

Whisper said:


> Yeah, I think you may have painted yourslef in a corner. My advice is to rethink this just a little bit. Plopping them in the middle of nothing with nothing and expecting them to survive is a bit harsh. A man in the poorest drug infested part of the city dressed in a suit made of $100 bills would probably have a better chance of surviving then a bunch of kids with no supplies and no training in the dino era. Of course, if your goal is to see how many ways kids can die in the dino era, I'd say you have a story.



You'd be surprised how quickly people learn to survive when it's life or death. At our very core, humans are hard-wired for survival. In fact, being in a situation like that can bring out the absolute best (and worst) people have to offer, often awakening courage they didn't know existed. 

It's unlikely they'll survive, but not implausible.


----------



## shadowwalker

I think when talking plausibility, one would have to look at the audience. Are they of the age group that would accept incredible luck for the sake of the story (ala Jurassic Park) or are they going to scornfully say "No way, man!" and toss it down?


----------



## Circadian

Olly Buckle said:


> Very few animals are poisonous, avoid the livers of carnivores and fish that don't look like fish and you are mostly okay. More likely are parasites, such as tapeworms and flukes, very thorough cooking can usually deal with them. However, if they are in a prehistoric world where mammals have not evolved yet neither will their parasites, or many of their diseases.



I would assume to just stay away from the organs altogether and not eat the skin.  I heard that some animals (like poisonous frogs) have toxins in their skin, but get rid of the skin and they're fine to eat.  And actually, the Cretaceous period saw the evolution of small rodent-like mammals as well as angiosperms (flowering plants).  This opens up the possibility of the evolution of fruit-bearing plants.  My characters just have to be careful in testing the fruit for edibility.


----------



## Lewdog

Circadian said:


> I would assume to just stay away from the organs altogether and not eat the skin.  I heard that some animals (like poisonous frogs) have toxins in their skin, but get rid of the skin and they're fine to eat.  And actually, the Cretaceous period saw the evolution of small rodent-like mammals as well as angiosperms (flowering plants).  This opens up the possibility of the evolution of fruit-bearing plants.  My characters just have to be careful in testing the fruit for edibility.



I did some studying of poison tree frogs.  If you read up what I said earlier, the reason they are poisonous is that they eat bugs that eat the fresh foliage.  The foliage in tropical forests contain high alkaloid levels that make them poisonous.

The rule of thumb when it comes to poisonous reptiles is the brighter the color, the more poisonous they are.


----------



## moderan

Mammals were around before the Cretaceous. They became more prevalent then, as the dinosaurs were evolving further (the evidence for feathers on late-Cretaceous dinos is overwhelming) and becoming somewhat less numerous (the Earth itself was undergoing rapid continental drift as Pangaea was separating, before the Mexican meteor).
In general, it does seem to be true about colorful poisonous reptiles...think about coral snakes and Gila monsters, but it isn't a given. Even then, the flesh is edible, you'd just have to remove the poison sacs. If one of your characters has any sort of high-school-level biology, they can figure out what's reasonable to eat by simply dissecting something and looking at its organs.


----------



## Lewdog

Another way they can kill food to eat and use for protection, is spike filled pits.  Once prey falls into the pit, even if it isn't killed by the spikes in it, they can safely finish it off with spears.  They can also surround the entrance to their cave with pits for protection, and as long as they are smart enough not to fall in themselves, they should be fine.


----------



## moderan

Or just pits without spikes. Just cover em with sticks or whatever.


----------



## Olly Buckle

Coastal areas are good, there are caves and handy size stones, shell fish provide a back up diet, tidal fish traps work pretty much by themselves twice a day and the water makes a good retreat from most land based predators, and vice versa so long as they don't both turn up at once.

Pits are hard to dig, support something on a stick and balance large stones on it, tie a bait to the stick, when the bait is taken the stones fall on its head. If there is a large enough group you can build fences to direct herds then frighten them over a natural drop like a cliff. Another advantage of a coastal area and easier than digging it. 

Small animals are often creatures of habit and create 'paths', a stake, or tree, supporting a loop with a slip knot at an appropriate height work well, feeling it around its neck the animal panics and lunges away either strangling itself or breaking its neck.


----------



## Whisper

Olly Buckle said:


> People in stories don't have to live by the pragmatic rules of every day necessarily, Bruce Willis should never have survived even the first of the 'Die hard' series and Raymond Chandler's heroes can be in a conflict situation for up to three days without sleep and still operating. If the reader wants escapist adventure they will suspend their disbelief over the most ridiculous things. It's fiction.



I agree. People are willing to suspend a little bit of disbelief. The fact that people in movies get shot all the time then in the next scene are fighting is one example. But this suspension only gets you so far. If Willis had jumped down an elevator shaft 10 stories without a scratch, then I suspect people would have been crying foul. 

I'm not saying what he wants to do can't be done, but the story he's writing is going to appeal to a specific type of reader (in the same way apoc stories do) and he needs to be prepared for logical explanations. Miracle saves are only going to get you so far.


----------



## Whisper

There are a lot of ways you can do this:

Add an extra kid. Have him be a big fan of Survivor Man. Have him teach them just enough basic survival skills to have plausable survival chances than have him killed. This will give these kids basic survival skills AND show that no one is safe in your story.

and/or

Maybe this wasn't the first time this has happened. Have them struggle for a couple of day, then just when they are about to die, have some kid from a previous transport save them. To make this not some miracle cure-all make sure it's someone that doesn't speak the same language.


----------



## Lewdog

Whisper said:


> There are a lot of ways you can do this:
> 
> Add an extra kid. Have him be a big fan of Survivor Man. Have him teach them just enough basic survival skills to have plausable survival chances than have him killed. This will give these kids basic survival skills AND show that no one is safe in your story.
> 
> and/or
> 
> Maybe this wasn't the first time this has happened. Have them struggle for a couple of day, then just when they are about to die, have some kid from a previous transport save them. To make this not some miracle cure-all make sure it's someone that doesn't speak the same language.



Or like Jumangi have some guy already there that was transported there with kids before but he is the only one that has lived long enough to survive and grow up?


----------



## Circadian

Lewdog said:


> Or like Jumangi have some guy already there that was transported there with kids before but he is the only one that has lived long enough to survive and grow up?




Hmmm...  How _did _that guy survive in Jumangi for so long?

Anyway, I was never actually planning on having the kids remain alone and lost in the wilderness forever.  There will be other people eventually who are a bit more equipped to survive than the kids are.  Now if only they can just _get along...

_Oh, and Whisper, it's _she_, by the way.


----------



## Whisper

Circadian said:


> Oh, and Whisper, it's _she_, by the way.



You're right. I just checked your profile and it says you're a girl. Congradulations.:twisted:

You'll have to excuse me for my confustion, most women don't want a bunch of young kids to be eaten by dinos.:mrgreen:


----------



## Circadian

Whisper said:


> You're right. I just checked your profile and it says you're a girl. Congradulations.:twisted:
> 
> You'll have to excuse me for my confustion, most women don't want a bunch of young kids to be eaten by dinos.:mrgreen:




I'm not most women...

LOL, that's okay.  I understand it can be hard to tell on forums.  And I don't _want_ them to get eaten by dinos.  That's a job for the redshirts.


----------



## Rustgold

Whisper said:


> If Willis had jumped down an elevator shaft 10 stories without a scratch, then I suspect people would have been crying foul.


Didn't he jump off a building in his movie and smash through highrise glass?

Anyway, for real survival skills, try watching a decent real reenactment survival story show.


----------



## dolphinlee

This is a tail of survival which stunned the world when we heard about it.

Sole survivor: the woman who fell to earth - Telegraph


----------



## Lewdog

Rustgold said:


> Didn't he jump off a building in his movie and smash through highrise glass?
> 
> Anyway, for real survival skills, try watching a decent real reenactment survival story show.





A lot of times when you see a guy come flying through highrise glass they shoot the glass first to fracture it.


----------



## Whisper

dolphinlee said:


> This is a tail of survival which stunned the world when we heard about it.
> 
> Sole survivor: the woman who fell to earth - Telegraph



This was very interesting. Thanks.


----------



## tabasco5

They can go without food for a longer period than they can go without water.  You can have them starve to the point where they will eat any kind of animal or plant then, as others have hinted at, let them start figuring it out for themselves through necessity.  They can probably find some kind of fruit, berry, nut, or plant that is edible.  They can also start eating insects, worms, lizards, birds, fish, etc. raw or cook them over the fire.  The river will be a good resource for you in terms of aquatic food as well.  There are plenty of good survival/wilderness stories out there from Hatchet to the SAS Survival Handbook to Into the Wild.  There is also some good information on the internet because several people do this stuff for fun and write about it.

Sounds like a fun story!


----------



## Angelwing

Check out a military grade survival manual. I know there's an SAS (Special Air Service) survival handbook that's popular. I also have a US Army survival manual with info on plants, animals, traps, shelters, terrain, etc. I could try to find some excerpts if you still need them. PM me or reply if you like.


----------



## Rustgold

Lewdog said:


> A lot of times when you see a guy come flying through highrise glass they shoot the glass first to fracture it.



Which works in real life like a bullet hole in an airplane will cause rapid decompression..., not.

(and I know, month old)


----------



## seigfried007

Whisper said:


> Beats me. It's his story, but I'm going to go with probably not, since he's trying to kill them anyway.:wink:
> 
> Still, a cave is only going to get you so far.
> 
> Well, hopefully, there is a turned over bus on this island of dinos



And a cave is going to have dinosaurs already living in it. 

Think about it. Who got there first? The dinosaurs. So who's going to have the awesome pad? The dinosaurs. Even if the kids make a nice pad out of a tree or cave, guess who's going to take it over? The dinosaurs. 

Just like wolves and foxes and bears live in caves, dinosaurs will too. There's a critter for every niche and every place and every diet.


----------



## seigfried007

Circadian said:


> I would assume to just stay away from the organs altogether and not eat the skin.  I heard that some animals (like poisonous frogs) have toxins in their skin, but get rid of the skin and they're fine to eat.  And actually, the Cretaceous period saw the evolution of small rodent-like mammals as well as angiosperms (flowering plants).  This opens up the possibility of the evolution of fruit-bearing plants.  My characters just have to be careful in testing the fruit for edibility.




Primitive flowers are fleshy and smell like rotting meat. Just sayin'

Flowers are tailored to the critters they attract. So you'll likely have ones that smell like carrion and poop to attract flies and beetles because butterflies and bees haven't evolved yet. The sweet tooth thing most likely happened later.


----------



## seigfried007

Something else to keep in mind is, of course, what critters lived in that proximity (and that not all dinosaurs lived in jungles).


Just in case the original poster is still keeping an eye on this minor resurrection....


----------



## Morkonan

Circadian said:


> ...Any tips?



Adding my two coppers:

Any injury is potentially fatal. Keep that in mind, especially in such an environment. An infected cut can turn gangrenous and kill you, especially if the infection troubles the heart. Dead is dead, whether it's from a paper cut or an exploded pancreas..

Water is your enemy. Yes, you need water to survive, but you need clean water. Not just any old water will do. The microbes living in most jungle streams are going to, at the very least, make you ill. At the worst, you'll end up with dysentary, dengue fever, Juanta virus.. whatever. Water can also kill you, directly. All those rainstorms send water charging downhill and it may be difficult to figure out whether or not you're camped in a safe spot or in the middle of what will be a flood plane in thirty minutes.

Being wet is bad. Dry is good. Trench foot and crotch rot are not fun, they're often caused by dangerous fungal infections that can end up killing you... If you can't walk because your feet are swollen, cracked and falling apart, you can't run from the tiger that is about to eat you. Rainwater will carry bacteria and other nasties straight into open wounds, too. 

Food is scarce. The jungle may look like its filled with great things to eat, but most of them that look "obviously edible" will kill you... or cause you to be so sick you'll wish you would be dead. Even an innocent looking bug can make you sick. In fact, just about everything that looks easy to eat is bad for you to eat.

So, what to do?

1) FIRE! Fire is a great tool. With fire, we can keep the bugs away and most animals. We can clear the ground of ticks and other potentially poisonous or toxic insects, as well. If we can manage a container, either one we brought with us or one we make out of local items, we may be able to boil water. We can use it to harden spears and arrows, make makeshift kilns for pots, make ovens.. whatever. Fire is _A Big Deal ™._ Finding things to burn, on the other hand, may be more difficult than starting a fire. But, luckily, there will be fairly dry detritus lying around, probably just underneath the jungle floor.

2) Shelter. That whole keeping dry thing is very important. Shelter, cleared and protected by fire, is a good idea. (No, you don't burn down the jungle. You burn dead leaves on top of the ground or brush flaming branches around to clear the ground. Just watch out for spreads and smoldering fires.) Caves and the like will be heavily infested, but they could be smoked out for long-term use. Thankfully, there's lots of stuff lying around to make shelters from, so lean-to's and even full shelters are possible. Dead branches and some fresh stripped large leaves are fine, weave them together and overlap them to keep out the daily showers.

3) Water. If you can't boil it in a container, for goodness sakes don't drink it out of a stream or even lick it off leaves. Instead, some vines act as conduits for water and you can get a good bit from them. You can also plug them back up and keep returning to the tap, if you do it right. If you don't have a container, a very hot rock placed in a makeshift container _might_ be enough to kill most problematic things in the water. You may need to keep adding rocks and you will lose some of it to steam. Vines are better, in that respect - Natural filter system. Collecting rain water is iffy. Besides having hit every leaf on the way down, it could also have microbes in it that have just traveled on the wind. Rainwater is not pure so it _needs_ to be sanitized.

4) Food. Consider every plant suspect and every insect poisonous. Insects that are clearly walking around without fear probably have a very good reason for that behavior. Insects that are hiding or have burrowed may be a better choice, but watch out for beetles - Most of them are bad. Most earthworms (Careful, because some things that look like worms aren't...), grubs burrowed into wood and a few other sorts might be edible. Of course, any mammal or bird you see is fair game. If you can catch fish, you might be lucky. But, you'll probably get worms, or worse, from them if they're not thoroughly cooked and charred. That goes for every meat, by the way. You're not going to be eating rare steaks, if you can help it. (Note: You can clay-bake fish fairly well, just be sure they cook long enough.) Some tubers, if you can find some, might be fine, but watch for toxic effects. If you can see what other mammals are eating, that's a good choice for yourself. So, if you can't reach the monkeys in the tree, you can note what sort of tree it is and whether or not it has fruit that they're eating. Another note: Some monkeys pursue hallucinogenic fruits... Those are toxic and best left alone. Take a nibble and wait an hour in order to test it.

Nets for birds, fish and monkeys (or other critters) can be made with varying degrees of difficulty. Spears are easy and even rudimentary bows can be fashioned. Rocks, however, are very capable weapons and you can easily take down a bird with one. Fishing spears could work well in shallow jungle streams.

5) Monchas... There are things in the jungle that will eat you. In fact, everything in the jungle will eat you if you don't move fast enough. Defenseless food, like you, doesn't last very long. Jaguars and tigers are probably the most troublesome predators in most "jungles." _Your predators in the story may be different._ Predators like easy food, but they don't like food that acts "strange" or could be interpreted to be dangerous. Predators generally weigh the risk of injury against the reward, depending on how hungry they are. If you're waving fire around and look dangerous, you might save your life. But, if you're trespassing and this is a territorial attack, moving elsewhere is probably a good idea. Of course, asking the predator what their motivation is will be problematic..

Your characters will be able to survive a lack of food for a month or longer, if they're not using much energy. But, generally, after ten days of nothing to eat in a survival environment where they're working to survive, they'll be worthless. They'll need some water, every day. It all depends on how much they're sweating and how humid it is.

Dysentery is going to be one of the most serious and perhaps unavoidable problems. They'll probably drink some contaminated water and then they'll be in very real danger of dehydration... Minor cuts and scrapes must be treated immediately and they're going to need to air out their shoes and clothes, preferably by smoking them, whenever they can. (Ticks, lice, fleas, etc.. Plus, wet socks and trenchfoot go hand-in-foot.) There may be times when they will not be able to escape mosquitoes, even with a good fire and lots of smoke. In that case, malaria could be a very real concern. Cholera, Dengue fever and all sorts of other nasty diseases caused by parasites are also things to watch out for, but could be inevitable problems. (Cholera, less so, if they don't drink from untreated water. But, it's still an issue.)

Synopsis - Their chances will be better if there are more of them. (Easier distribution of labor, more people working makes less work for all.) If it's just a handful, maybe one or two will survive, depending upon how long they're there. I'd count on at least one dying from dysentery/cholera, maybe even two. (They'll all get some form of stomach/digestive tract illness, though.) Another couple are bound to get malaria at some point. They could survive it, depending upon how far advanced their survival methods have become. You can seriously increase their survival rate by limiting the number of potential human pathogens there are, slinking around in the waters. Then, you just have to worry about toxic effects from food, insect bites and certain sorts of plants.


----------



## Rosier

I haven't read the previous posts, but I do have a question.
Is there a quick way of getting fuel or anything combustible in the wild? Or do I have to resort to puncturing gas tanks and raid local towns and scare the townsfolk? :distant:


----------



## Morkonan

Rosier said:


> I haven't read the previous posts, but I do have a question.
> Is there a quick way of getting fuel or anything combustible in the wild? Or do I have to resort to puncturing gas tanks and raid local towns and scare the townsfolk? :distant:



Uh... Wood is combustible. In fact, most organic things are combustible and will burn, if subjected to the right conditions.

If you mean liquid fuel, like to power an engine, then yes, you can derive certain sorts of fuel from organic material. You can go through a complex process to derive methanol from wood or you could ferment various sorts of plant extracts. You can also burn oils derived from fat. A diesel engine, for instance, will run reliably on cooking oil. (Diesel engines are low-temperature engines and very robust, but can be easily damaged by higher octane fuels.) Rendering fat into cooking oil and mixing it with a small portion of methanol or fermented alcohol (8%? not sure.) will yield a very reliable diesel fuel.


----------



## Rosier

That was informative. Thanks. :smile:
I guess the best way to do that fermentation process is somewhere in the middle of the forest or some isolated area where it can't be spotted or stolen.


----------



## Robert_S

Circadian said:


> They didn't know this was going to happen, so they don't have any matches or ropes with them or anything.



If they have a lens, they can make fire. Often, building a fire is stacking less sparkable material on top of more easily sparked material (kindling) and igniting that by heating it until it embers then providing air (blowing) to get it hotter until it ignites.

If they don't have a lens, then they can use friction.



> It's just about surviving.  There are, however, dangerous predators lurking in this jungle.



Sharp sticks for stabbing, heavy sticks for clubbing. Rocks for clubbing or chipped to have a sharp edge for slashing/hacking.



> There will be a river...somewhere.



Spear fishing



> There is plenty of vegetation but my characters don't know which is edible and which isn't.  I'd rather they didn't all die within the week.



There should be some herbivores around. Not always, but a lot of times, what an herbivore eats, a human can eat, though it may not be as palatable. However, this is not always the case. The amazon poison frog gets poisonous be eating poisoned vegetation. These frogs also tend to be very bright orange/red as a visual warning to predators.


----------

