# the end.



## Absolem (Dec 28, 2016)

I've always loved reading and writing poetry. Though 80% of all my work is rhyming poetry I want to do more free verse to see if I'm any better at it then the former. This one is still in the works. Hope you like it.

The end

A tone of finality echoes out of the symphony of our climax, as if all were lost and it were the end.

Has the end truly come? I think so. The end of hopeless aspirations, the end of midnight contemplation, the end of inferiority complexes. Yes, the end has come.

I laid my heart bare before you and you took it with trembling hands, locking it away in a sanctuary of forever. Now fitted together in our embrace, we watch as the stars fall from the heavens, burning the firnement.

Like fruit from a tree they fell along with our inhibitions, cascading to earth in celestial triumph. Confirming our hope for the end of all things.


----------



## Darkkin (Dec 28, 2016)

Free verse and prose poetry are both tricky forms, considering how much grey area they cover.  Not an easy undertaking, so kudos on taking on the challenge.  However, it is the format of this particular piece that doesn't quite jive as a 'poem'.  As a reader it feels like prose.  As a philosophical contemplation, a monologue, it works.  As a poem, not so much.

Probably poor comprehension on my part, but why the continuous reiteration of the single title element throughout piece.  We've seen the same recurrence across prior pieces, too. Please don't take a reader's understanding for granted.  Chances are they will pick up on critical elements like a title.  A little subtly goes a long way, consider diversifying context to support your main ideas.  Don't keep repeating the title word, that is how you write yourself into a box.  Not an interesting place by any stretch of the imagination.  Establish your idea, but keep the flow of the piece moving.  

e.g.

A tone of finality echoes, 
as if all were lost,
at an end.

You have some nice turns of phrase, but you need to hold your words accountable.  Ask basic questions.  Does this line support my idea?  Is it critical to the piece?  Does the context support the main idea?  Is my meaning clear?  Poetry is an evolutionary process and revision is critical.  Read aloud and consider looking into examples of free verse and prose poetry.  Also consider talking to some of the mentors here on the forums, as well.


----------



## Absolem (Dec 28, 2016)

I thought prose and poetry were one in the same? Son of a gun man. Just can't win with these things. How is it not a poem?


----------



## Firemajic (Dec 28, 2016)

Absolem said:


> I've always loved reading and writing poetry. Though 80% of all my work is rhyming poetry I want to do more free verse to see if I'm any better at it then the former. This one is still in the works. Hope you like it.
> 
> The end
> 
> ...





This poem is vague, obscure statements leave me fumbling in the dark... desperately struggling to understand where you want me to go, what you want me to feel/see/ understand....
I broke this into lines and stanzas trying to see if that would help ME connect with your message, but there just isn't one, for me...  The last line left me confused as to the intent of the message and only added to my confusion... now, I know this sounds really bad, but it is not. there are a lot of things I LOVE about your poem.... some beautiful lines here... but beautiful lines does not a poem make....
You have a unique voice and I love what I see lurking below the surface....
Here's the thing.. you excel with your imagery... now, focus on the message, mood and movement... either whisper or roar, but make SURE your message is coherent and that the poem moves to a conclusion... I truly hope my thoughts help and inspire you. I want you to find your voice, I want you to DARE to expose your INTIMATE emotions/ thoughts.. ect.. make this personal, unique to YOUR experiences... Don't hold back, I can see the raw potential in your work, and it excites me, I can see something so special in your work and that thrills me...


----------



## Darkkin (Dec 28, 2016)

Absolem said:


> I thought prose and poetry were one in the same? Just can't win with these things.



You might as well be calling the sun a starfish, as both deal with stars.  There is a difference, or at least I assumed there is a difference.  Again, probably faulty logic on my part.  There are threads on the boards that take the issue under discussion.  Also, what is there to win?  Poetry, writing, isn't, shouldn't be a race or about adulation.  It is about the journey, the lessons learned along the way.

As to why this is not a poem, that is simply _my _observation.  You want to call it a poem, it is your right to do so.  But as a reader, let me ask, what makes this particular piece a poem and not prose?


----------



## Absolem (Dec 28, 2016)

Firemajic said:


> This poem is vague, obscure statements leave me fumbling in the dark... desperately struggling to understand where you want me to go, what you want me to feel/see/ understand....
> I broke this into lines and stanzas trying to see if that would help ME connect with your message, but there just isn't one, for me...  The last line left me confused as to the intent of the message and only added to my confusion... now, I know this sounds really bad, but it is not. there are a lot of things I LOVE about your poem.... some beautiful lines here... but beautiful lines does not a poem make....
> You have a unique voice and I love what I see lurking below the surface....
> Here's the thing.. you excel with your imagery... now, focus on the message, mood and movement... either whisper or roar, but make SURE your message is coherent and that the poem moves to a conclusion... I truly hope my thoughts help and inspire you. I want you to find your voice, I want you to DARE to expose your INTIMATE emotions/ thoughts.. ect.. make this personal, unique to YOUR experiences... Don't hold back, I can see the raw potential in your work, and it excites me, I can see something so special in your work and that thrills me...


Thank you for your critique and comments. They HAVE inspired me. The first stanza is about an orgasm that supposed to symbolize the end if certain hurtful things I.e. the end if hopeless aspirations and midnight contemplation etc. It was meant to be an end to the intangibles as well as the tangibles hence the stars falling. Thanks you for commenting on my imagery. I understand also what you mean when you say you felt like you were fumbling in the dark trying to find a conclusion. I'll be sure to make sure I have a point to be made first and foremost before dressing it up. Thanks a bunch


----------



## Absolem (Dec 28, 2016)

Darkkin said:


> You might as well be calling the sun a starfish, as both deal with stars.  There is a difference, or at least I assumed there is a difference.  Again, probably faulty logic on my part.  There are threads on the boards that take the issue under discussion.  Also, what is there to win?  Poetry, writing, isn't, shouldn't be a race or about adulation.  It is about the journey, the lessons learned along the way.
> 
> As to why this is not a poem, that is simply _my _observation.  You want to call it a poem, it is your right to do so.  But as a reader, let me ask, what makes this particular piece a poem and not prose?



Well the poetic descriptions and theme of "the end" being portrayed in various aspects.


----------



## Firemajic (Dec 28, 2016)

Absolem said:


> Thank you for your critique and comments. They HAVE inspired me. The first stanza is about an orgasm that supposed to symbolize the end if certain hurtful things I.e. the end if hopeless aspirations and midnight contemplation etc. It was meant to be an end to the intangibles as well as the tangibles hence the stars falling. Thanks you for commenting on my imagery. I understand also what you mean when you say you felt like you were fumbling in the dark trying to find a conclusion. I'll be sure to make sure I have a point to be made first and foremost before dressing it up. Thanks a bunch




Your imagery is beautiful, imaginative and unique... imagery SUPPORTS your message, helps create your mood... but the main thing I want you to work on is your MESSAGE... because... well... poetry really is all about connecting with your reader, on an emotional level... if I don't understand your message, the beauty of your imagery is meaningless.. sort of like splashing beautiful colors on a canvass without meaning or form... I WANT to feel your emotions, I want to understand... and when I am done reading, I want to come away with SOMETHING...


----------



## Darkkin (Dec 28, 2016)

Poetic descriptions do not make a poem; poetic in this instance is an adjective describing the aforementioned descriptions, not delineating how it is a poem.  Just as a poem can be prosaic, prose can be poetic.  That being said, taking format and context into account, how is the reader supposed to know that this is a poem, other than the fact that you tell them it is?

Consider that poetry is as much about the visual construct as it is about the verbal.  You say it's a poem, but the critical elements like structure, (yes, even free verse does take things like enjambment and line breaks into account), and tone are inherently absent in this format.  You present it as a block that is identical to paragraphs of prose.  The reader, sees it, interprets it as such.  Yet, the reader is supposed to say: Hey, what a great poem? 

 This is where as a reader, I'm hitting a snag.

Fire's simple reformatting of the piece improved it.  That one small bit of effort clarified the piece's identity.  It looks like something a reader would expect to see when they hear the word poem.  Yes, readers have preconceived notions, as writers do.  In the original incarnation it looks like you didn't want to bother with basic formatting.  That is where the visual element of poetry comes into play.

Consider looking in authors like Charles Bukowski and Mary Oliver, down to earth writers who deal in both poetry and prose.  They illustrate free verse and prose poetry beautifully.


----------



## Absolem (Dec 28, 2016)

Darkkin said:


> Poetic descriptions do not make a poem; poetic in this instance is an adjective describing the aforementioned descriptions, not delineating how it is a poem.  Just as a poem can be prosaic, prose can be poetic.  That beings said, taking format and context into account, how is the reader supposed to know that this is a poem, other than the fact that you tell them it is?
> 
> Consider that poetry is as much about the visual construct as it is about the verbal.  You say it's a poem, but the critical elements like structure, (yes, even free verse does take things like enjambment and line breaks into account), and tone are inherently absent in this format.  You present it as a block that is identical to paragraphs of prose.  The reader, sees it, interprets it as such.  Yet, the reader is supposed to say: Hey, what a great poem?
> 
> ...



Your replies are eloquent yes and quite confusing. I really do appreciate the harsh critique as it will only aid me in my future writing. I don't understand what you mean by poems being visual. I tried to be as descriptive as possible. Albiet this poem took me about ten minutes to write. That could be the problem. Not fully developing my idea. I wish I could get you to see what I'm trying to say.


----------



## PiP (Dec 28, 2016)

Absolem said:


> Y. Albiet this poem took me about ten minutes to write. That could be the problem. Not fully developing my idea. I wish I could get you to see what I'm trying to say.



I think a poem you want people to offer feedback on deserves more than ten minutes  Have you consulted Mr. Google for the difference between prose and prose poems, or read any prose poetry?

If I'm attempting a new form I always surf the net first to get some idea  I think prose poetry is not as simple as it first appears. Well done for attempting it!


----------



## Darkkin (Dec 28, 2016)

Absolem said:


> I really do appreciate the harsh critique as it will only aid me in my future writing. I don't understand what you mean by poems being visual. I tried to be as descriptive as possible. Albiet this poem took me about ten minutes to write. That could be the problem. Not fully developing my idea.



Simple way to discern between basic prose and poetry: Place a book of poetry and a novel side by side.  Take a look at the formats.  Consider what you see.  How are they different?

With poetry, layouts is often more linear, vertical in their construction.  Verses instead of paragraphs.  Ideas are more concentrated.  Imagery is brighter, sharper.  Each word carries much more weight.  And the placement of the words is much more deliberate.  There is a bit more thought that goes into the formatting of poetry.  It is more elusive, elemental.  The sun to the starfish.

With prose, it is pretty straightforward.  This paragraph, as an example, is prose.  Critiques, newspaper articles, blogs, novels, research papers...The list goes on, are all prose.  By and large the vast majority of the written word is quantifiably prose.   

Also look at the other replies in this thread.  Fire reworked the placement of your lines into a vertical format, instead of the horizontal presentation you provided in the first reply.  Compare the two formattings:  How are they different?  From a reader's standpoint, which do you find easier to read?  Which feels more like what you as a reader, a writer, think a poem should be like?

As to critique, these have been relatively tame, basic observation.  Overall, what we've been trying say is slow down and invest a little more time in your basics like idea development, formatting, and context.  Let the readers hear your voice as a writer, not an opaque rendering.  Connect point A to point B.  Consider the why behind a thought or an turn of phrase, what inspired it, how it works within a line.  Go a little deeper than, it sounded pretty or because I said so.

You're a writer, but also a reader.  Keep that in mind.  Think about the questions you would ask.  Like learning to play an instrument, most of us are not virtuosos.  It takes practice, patience, and revision.  

Just some thoughts.

- D. the T.


----------



## sas (Dec 29, 2016)

Although some of my best work has been written relatively quickly, the emphasis is on relatively. Except for a few haiku and senryu poems, I take quite a lot of time scrutinizing  every word (including "the"), every punctuation mark, and every line break before I'm satisfied I've achieved something I'd want others to read, even in workshop. I also read it aloud to hear flaws I might miss if I only read it. I give my best effort before I ask anyone else to give their time reading or responding to it. Truthfully, after all of that, I will have missed something that others in group are so helpful to point out. I am always astonished by that and gratefully humbled.  Best. Sas


----------



## Absolem (Dec 29, 2016)

Okay, here's the revision. 

The end

We fell like fruit from a tree into each others embrace, letting the symphony of our climax ring out through the emptiness of the night.

We fell yes, like stars from our heavenly throne into the mortality of human love. Into the futility of passionate desire. Clinging onto the only hope we had left. Each other.

We laid our hearts bare and with trembling hands with took the offering, locking it a sanctuary of forever. Hoping to escape.

But there was no escape. No delay for the inevitable. Locked together in each others arms, we fell into each others eyes and said our farewells as the end came and swept over us. Consuming it all in one fell swoop.


----------



## -xXx- (Dec 29, 2016)

Absolem said:


> I've always loved reading and writing poetry. Though 80% of all my work is rhyming poetry I want to do more free verse to see if I'm any better at it then the former. This one is still in the works. Hope you like it.
> 
> *The end*
> 
> ...


er sumsuch(es)


----------



## Absolem (Dec 29, 2016)

That was actually a lot better haha. Now I know what darkkin meant.


----------

