# Coping with natural disasters around the world, or It's time to knock Americans again



## The Backward OX (Jan 11, 2011)

At the present time, north-eastern Australia is experiencing a flood situation of biblical proportions.

Over the years we’ve endured a few massive natural disasters. Every time one of these begins to loom up, our State Emergency Service, our SES, swings into action.

Across the country, this group numbers 70,000, out of a population of 20 million. They are all volunteers, taking time off from whatever normally pays their wages to help those in need. There is no fuss, no commotion, no grandstanding. They just get in and get on with it.

During this present disaster, they are scattered throughout South East Queensland saving lives, helping with flood mitigation, and assisting police and local authority workers maintain essential services. 

It has been suggested by commentators here that *if* the United States, with a population ten times that of Australia, had a comparatively-sized – that is, 700,000 - totally dedicated, *volunteer* organisation geared to *rapid response* to natural disasters, *then* the loss of life from Hurricane Katrina would have been minimal.

But it seems that US services, no matter what hat they wear, are more interested in 1) standing around making a lot of noise about what they intend to do, and 2) being paid for it when they eventually get around to doing it. Americans just don’t have that “let’s all pitch in *now* and help each other” attitude that we do. They simply don't understand the concept of mateship.

So what’s wrong with Americans? Why are they like that? Why is their natural inclination only to say, "Look at me. I'm better than you?" Why do they have to be noticed?


On an associated note, certain posts in the Show Yo Face thread are a perfect illustration of the above.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 11, 2011)

I think it is having a whole continent to yourself. We all get that "we are the greatest" rubbish fed to us, but there must be a huge proportion of the population in the "fly over" states who have never met or spoken to anyone who isn't American, or even heard an foreign radio station, and actually believe it. Someone returning from Iraq tells me that the British were not nearly so disliked as the Americans, "our boys" still took the locals down the barracks and beat the daylights out of them from time to time, but they would join the normal traffic, not switch the sirens on and want the whole road cleared. I know Australia is largely 'back of Bourke' down there in the southern ocean, but a much larger proportion of your population are recent arrivals. Perhaps, with luck, it is one of those things that the web is gradually changing.


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## Dudester (Jan 11, 2011)

I feel for the people of Australia, I do, but America is a large continent with a diverse population. With that said, hear a tale of two cities:

In 2005, Hurricane Katrina created a huge disaster in New Orleans. It wasn't like New Orleans wasn't warned. In the 15 years prior to the disaster, there had been three documentaries about how New Orleans was going to be wiped out, and it happened-shock !! Duh !!

I live near Houston. Every two to three years, Houston gets biblical scale flooding (google Tropical Storm Allison). Only the difference is that for the past few decades, Houston has invested heavily in flood management. Houstonians are so used to the floods that after the water abates, they just roll up their sleeves and go to work, cleaning up.

In 2005, after Katrina, New Orleans citizens kept waiting for someone to rescue them. When President George W. Bush went to New Orleans after the storm, he was in a room with the leaders there. He asked who was in charge of the security in New Orleans. The Mayor of New Orleans and Governor of Louisiana pointed at each other. Then, he asked who was coordinating the response. Again, those two idiots pointed at each other. Then he told the Governor that he needed her okay to send in troops. She said she needed 24 hours to think about it.

BTW, the school buses that rescued the 200,000 of New Orleans ? Sent by the city of Houston. It was Houstonians that sheltered and fed those numbskulls, and we instantly regretted it. Inside of a month, our crime rate shot up 300 percent. It turns out that criminals in Louisiana have 90 day turnarounds, no matter the offense. They weren't prepared for "do the crime, do the time" in Texas. 

I understand that the flooding in Australia is unprecedented, but in Texas we view flooding as a local problem. Why is it America's fault if it floods in Australia ?


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## The Backward OX (Jan 11, 2011)

I never said that. 

Apparently not all the numbskulls live in New Orleans.


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## JosephB (Jan 11, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> But it seems that US services, no matter what hat they wear, are more interested in 1) standing around making a lot of noise about what they intend to do, and 2) being paid for it when they eventually get around to doing it. Americans just don’t have that “let’s all pitch in *now* and help each other” attitude that we do. They simply don't understand the concept of mateship.



What a load of nonsense. Hundreds of thousands of volunteers descended on the gulf coast to help victims and and clean up after Katrina. I went down there twice with a group from my church and we worked our tails off, clearing debris and helping people fix up their homes. And there were armies of volunteers down there from all over the country -- most of whom went at their own expense. Having an organized, national volunteer force sounds like a good idea, but the impression that we all sat around waiting for the government to do it all is dead wrong.

You're confused, OX -- there was inefficiency and finger pointing that stemmed from a lack of coordination between local, state and the federal governments. That was the primary problem with the initial response to Katrina. It had nothing to do with American's lack of "mateship," volunteer spirit or the desire to help one another.

Americans do toot their own horns too much, but there is also a lot retarded America bashing based on ignorance and vague impressions. Case in point.

An article that might be of interest:

Katrina volunteers come to stay - USATODAY.com

From the article:

_"...more than 1 million volunteers have flooded the Gulf Coast — people giving up weekends, holidays and vacations to do their part in the rebuilding effort."

"When New Orleans was in its initial recovery period, non-profits were overwhelmed with volunteers and didn't know what to do with all of them," says Aleis Tusa, communications director of Habitat for Humanity."_
_
"It's a grass-roots, bottoms-up phenomenon," says Richard Campanella of Tulane University's Center for Bioenvironmental Research."_

_"It sent shivers up and down my spine that all these strangers were coming to help..."_

Mateship. Pfff.


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## Edgewise (Jan 11, 2011)

> Americans just don’t have that “let’s all pitch in *now* and help each other” attitude that we do. They simply don't understand the concept of mateship.


Very true.  Part of it is historical.  Most of it is cultural.  I think Americans have traditionally placed a great deal more weight on individual initiative than many other modern countries.  Many Americans _*like to believe *_that we live and die by our ability (or perceived ability) to grab ourselves by the bootstraps.  It's obviously not that simple, and there are ample exceptions, but I think it's a legitimate part of the explanation of why Americans are not as "mate" oriented as Australians.  This also applies to things many Americans rush to label "socialist", like state (which is by nature communal) welfare in general.

Out of curiosity, does Australia have some sort of system to compensate those volunteers for their time and effort?  I ask because I suspect it is much more difficult here in the states to stop working for an extended period without enough money already in the bank to support yourself and family.  Many Americans live paycheck to paycheck and simply can't afford to take time off, even if they feel deeply and morally obliged to help those in need.


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## garza (Jan 11, 2011)

One major problem in the aftermath of Katrina was the attention paid to New Orleans to the detriment of recovery efforts along the Gulf Coast. New Orleans needed the help, but so did the communities in Hancock, Harrison, and Jackson counties in Mississippi and the coastal parishes of Louisiana. Waveland, Mississippi, was destroyed. Bay Saint Louis, Henderson Point, Pass Christian, Gulfport, Biloxi, d'Iberville, Ocean Springs, Gautier, Pascagoula, Moss Point, all suffered horrific damage, much of which has yet to be repaired. 

The total population of the Americas is about 859,000,000 people divided among 35 nation states. U-Essians, who make up about 36 percent of the American population, can be very quick to help in a disaster, but too often equally quick to expect payment for such help and too often ready to turn a disaster situation to their own advantage. Price gouging is seen by many as a legitimate way of turning a hurricane into easy money. 

Fortunately not everyone in the Americas has that attitude. In Cuba, for example, volunteer recovery teams go to work as soon as the winds start to die down and rebuilding starts immediately.


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## Edgewise (Jan 11, 2011)

garza said:


> One major problem in the aftermath of Katrina was the attention paid to New Orleans to the detriment of recovery efforts along the Gulf Coast. New Orleans needed the help, but so did the communities in Hancock, Harrison, and Jackson counties in Mississippi and the coastal parishes of Louisiana. Waveland, Mississippi, was destroyed. Bay Saint Louis, Henderson Point, Pass Christian, Gulfport, Biloxi, d'Iberville, Ocean Springs, Gautier, Pascagoula, Moss Point, all suffered horrific damage, much of which has yet to be repaired.
> 
> The total population of the Americas is about 859,000,000 people divided among 35 nation states. U-Essians, who make up about 36 percent of the American population, can be very quick to help in a disaster, but too often equally quick to expect payment for such help and too often ready to turn a disaster situation to their own advantage. Price gouging is seen by many as a legitimate way of turning a hurricane into easy money.
> 
> Fortunately not everyone in the Americas has that attitude. In Cuba, for example, volunteer recovery teams go to work as soon as the winds start to die down and rebuilding starts immediately.


 
He did not mean the Americas as a continent.  It makes sense that Cubans react quickly to natural disasters, considering the fact that they are a socialist country.  Social values aside, it is probably much easier to marshal relief efforts in a one party state like Cuba, since the state is the only organization with the means and prerogative to direct those efforts, and the population is ready to react quickly and efficiently once directed.  

To be fair, I am sure that it is not just U.S. Americans who dash to make a quick buck off of natural disasters.  No doubt there are (probably wealthy) locals who have no compunction against doing the same.


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## JosephB (Jan 11, 2011)

Edge, I agree with what you're saying about perceived individualism. And that has a lot to do with how government disaster response it often handled from the bottom up. But based on _what actually happened_ and how hundreds and thousands of Americans responded to Katrina, what OX is saying, that Americans just don’t have that "let’s all pitch in now and help each other" attitude just isn't true.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 11, 2011)

Edgewise said:


> Out of curiosity, does Australia have some sort of system to compensate those volunteers for their time and effort? I ask because I suspect it is much more difficult here in the states to stop working for an extended period without enough money already in the bank to support yourself and family. Many Americans live paycheck to paycheck and simply can't afford to take time off, even if they feel deeply and morally obliged to help those in need.


An answer is complex. There are so many variables. Some volunteers support themselves, some do continue receiving wages or part-wages, some do apply for and receive Government assistance, and a sizeable proportion of SES volunteers are self-funded or government-funded retirees. And one thing I forgot in the OP – the Australian Defence Force, the army in other words, do get involved whenever any disaster becomes large enough that the SES cannot manage alone.


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## JosephB (Jan 11, 2011)

What? Some of the volunteers are paid? The satisfaction that comes from all that wonderful Aussie "mateship" and "let's all pitch-in" attitude isn't enough compensation?


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## The Backward OX (Jan 11, 2011)

Phooey.


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## RoundEye (Jan 12, 2011)

Talking about Katrina embarrasses and pisses me off at the same time. A major part of the problem was our Governor at the time didn’t ask for help in time. Then when FEMA did come in they tried to commandeer all our gas supplies and cut the wires to the police radio towers because they were the tallest effectively stopping our police force from communicating with each other. Our police chief had a standoff with them about the gas, he put SWAT by all the gas stations and communication towers and dared them to do anything. FEMA made it worse,  ( read this ) Most of the repairs and recovery done was without any government intervention at all.

The areas affected the most was the poorest communities of this state. A lot of the people evacuated were scum of the Earth. How many rich white people did you see evacuated? I was writing a story about it but there were too many Katrina stories already when I looked at the bookstore. A lot of people more proficient at writing then I am already released stories. If you are interested in an unedited version, some of it is HERE.

Politics played a LARGE part of it too. Our governor wasn’t on the same political side as Bush, Mississippi’s governor was. Sounds like an excuse but politics did play a large part of getting help.


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## Dudester (Jan 12, 2011)

RoundEye said:


> Talking about Katrina embarrasses and pisses me off at the same time. A major part of the problem was our Governor at the time didn’t ask for help in time. Then when FEMA did come in they tried to commandeer all our gas supplies and cut the wires to the police radio towers because they were the tallest effectively stopping our police force from communicating with each other. Our police chief had a standoff with them about the gas, he put SWAT by all the gas stations and communication towers and dared them to do anything. FEMA made it worse, ( read this ) Most of the repairs and recovery done was without any government intervention at all.
> 
> The areas affected the most was the poorest communities of this state. A lot of the people evacuated were scum of the Earth. How many rich white people did you see evacuated? I was writing a story about it but there were too many Katrina stories already when I looked at the bookstore. A lot of people more proficient at writing then I am already released stories. If you are interested in an unedited version, some of it is HERE.
> 
> Politics played a LARGE part of it too. Our governor wasn’t on the same political side as Bush, Mississippi’s governor was. Sounds like an excuse but politics did play a large part of getting help.


 
Houston initially put the evacuees in the Astrodome. A well coordinated relief started happening with churches working with each other to staff the event and bring in supplies, prep moving evacuees out into the population. City and County Police protected the dome. Politicians kept their distance as it was an interfaith project. FEMA then appeared at the dome and wanted to take over. THe church leaders not only said no, but asked the cops to escort FEMA off of the site (Texas has unique territorial perks other states don't have). The feds then had no choice but to set up shop a couple of miles away to do their thing.


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## RoundEye (Jan 13, 2011)

Well thank you Houston for taking our evacuee’s. Sorry you had to deal with some scum of the Earth. Believe me when I say a very small percentage of people from Louisiana are like that. Y’all unfortunately received a majority of them. 

At least you can see some of how FEMA and the federal government really screwed things up under Bush’s control. Let’s hope something like this never, ever happens again.


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## RedEmbassy (Jan 13, 2011)

Sorry If I'm ressurecting a thread, but I'd like to chip in that San Antonio also helped out quite a bit as well with Katrina Evacuees. Sadly Dudester, and my condolences to houston, but most of the people we got from katrina were very hard working and honest folk. They set up a very profitable cajun cooking industry that is still burgeoning here. Heck, one of my high school chums was an evacuee and he was one of the coolest dudes I ever met. Very smart too. Now that I think about it, I think he had a part in convincing a close friend of mine to attend the University of New Orleans. (The valedictorian)

Sooo... yeah. Sorry bout them crim'nals, dude. :shock:


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## Writ-with-Hand (Jan 14, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> At the present time, north-eastern Australia is experiencing a flood situation of biblical proportions.



:| In all seriousness... I didn't know this was occurring. Has this been on American news? I don't watch much televised news (here and there I'll skim local news online). But I know local news has been advertising up coming coverage of the Packers going to Atlanta in their pursued path to the Superbowl. Awesome commercial, too, they say, "Well isn't that _peachy_!"  In a sarcastic way. Making fun of Georgia. 

So, what has this done to you all's kangaroo population? 



> Americans just don’t have that “let’s all pitch in *now* and help each other” attitude that we do. They simply don't understand *the concept of mateship.*
> 
> So what’s wrong with Americans?


:shock: Dude... you know how homo that just sounded? I wouldn't go into prison talking about mateship. Sounds like conjugal love. If you've got a big pair of silicon tits you might be alright.

But there's a thought for you. Why don't you Aussies get innovative... and all of you get big boob implants? Male or female you'll all will float through the storm on your backs instead of sinking.


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## Blood (Jan 14, 2011)

What surprises me is that Americans are not currently leading the rescue, clean up and rebuilding operations in the under-developed, third-world country known as Australia.  Here's an interesting piece from a UK news source...

_"The U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visits  earthquake-battered Haiti to offer its unfortunate people her 'deep  sympathy' and assure them that America is their 'friend, partner and  supporter'. 
_
_Words are cheap, but they're backed in this case by  *$100million in emergency aid *as well as an *aircraft carrier, a hospital  ship, helicopters and 5,000 peacekeeping troops*. More impressive,  certainly, than the official response of Europe. 
_
_The EU's High  Representative, Baroness Ashton, read a prepared statement to  journalists in Brussels conveying her 'condolences' to UN  Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, and pledged three million euros  -  far  less than has been raised by the British public. 

Why does 'Europe' often seem no more than a conspiracy of grocers,  haggling to keep prices up but blind to larger human concerns? Some of  its 27 nations are capable of great generosity, but the institution to  which they belong is a lumbering, faceless bureaucratic monolith._" 

The actual estimate of American aid to Hati is $850 million according to wikipedia.

As as far as Katrina is concerned, Joe is right (for once), you would have to live here to know the story.  Most Deaths that occurred in New Orleans were due to the levies giving way and nothing could be done about that as it was happening (having preventing that is another story).      



Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton: The American invasion of Haiti | Mail Online


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## Blood (Jan 14, 2011)

Dudester said:


> In 2005, after Katrina, New Orleans citizens kept waiting for someone to rescue them. When President George W. Bush went to New Orleans after the storm, he was in a room with the leaders there. He asked who was in charge of the security in New Orleans. The Mayor of New Orleans and Governor of Louisiana pointed at each other. Then, he asked who was coordinating the response. Again, those two idiots pointed at each other. Then he told the Governor that he needed her okay to send in troops. She said she needed 24 hours to think about it.


This story sounds like a complete fabrication - to put it nicely - the kind passed along through political internet channels.  When you say he went to New Orleans after the storm - when was that?  His first trip to the region was to Mobile, Alabama 5 days after Katrina struck, followed by Biloxi and then on to the airport in New Orleans where he made this statement...

_"Here's what I believe. I believe that the great city of New Orleans  will rise again and be a greater city of New Orleans. (Applause.) I  believe the town where I used to come from, Houston, Texas, to enjoy  myself -- occasionally too much -- (laughter) -- will be that very same  town, that it will be a better place to come to. That's what I believe. I  believe the great state of Louisiana will get its feet back and become a  vital contributor to the country."
_
What a joke.


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## Like a Fox (Jan 14, 2011)

Writ-with-Hand said:


> :| In all seriousness... I didn't know this was occurring. Has this been on American news? I don't watch much televised news (here and there I'll skim local news online). But I know local news has been advertising up coming coverage of the Packers going to Atlanta in their pursued path to the Superbowl. Awesome commercial, too, they say, "Well isn't that _peachy_!" In a sarcastic way. Making fun of Georgia.


I've had a few US friends contact me about it, so I assume it's been covered in some way.

75% of the state of Queensland (not my land, but the Ox's land) has been affected by floods. This is the equivalent size of Texas, or France and Germany together.
A number of people have been confirmed dead and there are still quite a few missing. The number of homes affected is just tremendous.

There was some flooding in rural Victoria (my land) yesterday, but our weather is clearing up now and there's no rain forecast for the next week or so.
We just have to hope the same for up north.


> So, what has this done to you all's kangaroo population?


There are some great pictures of people rescuing wildlife.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 14, 2011)

Like a Fox said:


> 75% of the state of Queensland (not my land, but the Ox's land) has been affected by floods. This is the equivalent size of Texas


 
Correction: Queensland is 715,000 sq miles, 75% of that is 536,000 sq miles. Texas is a miserly 268,000 sq miles, so the area of Queensland affected by flooding is more than twice the size of Texas.

Here's some pics:


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## spider8 (Jan 14, 2011)

Despite all this, we (England) still won the ashes.


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## spider8 (Jan 14, 2011)

How come we're greater in Australia, than Australians?


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## Like a Fox (Jan 14, 2011)

The Backward OX said:


> Correction: Queensland is 715,000 sq miles, 75% of that is 536,000 sq miles. Texas is a miserly 268,000 sq miles, so the area of Queensland affected by flooding is more than twice the size of Texas.



Ah. I didn't check. I just said things. Haha, thank goodness for you.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 14, 2011)

spider8 said:


> Despite all this, we (England) still won the ashes.



You've been reading the Bad Joke thread.

http://www.writingforums.com/writers-lounge/116776-bad-jokes.html#post1404862


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## Like a Fox (Jan 14, 2011)

Ahh Queensland. Your sense of humour is top notch.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 15, 2011)

The great Wally Lewis, no less, posing outside Lang Park aka The Cauldron aka Suncorp Stadium.


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## Blood (Jan 15, 2011)

Like a Fox said:


> Ahh Queensland. Your sense of humour is top notch.


What parallel universe is this?


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## Gumby (Jan 15, 2011)

Those pictures of the animal rescues are amazing Kath! That they are so calm seems to underline how in shock they must be, if those are wild Roos. And Ox, your pictures really captured a sense of the devastation. Thank you both for posting those.


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## caelum (Jan 16, 2011)

Haha, that guy in the boat is pretty heroic.  I'm surprised kangaroos are that trusting of people that they'd get in.  They were probably half-drowned and desperate.


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