# how a virus spreads - help



## writerinCA (Mar 18, 2012)

I am writing a television series either about a deadly virus outbreak that leaves the main characters isolated in an American city trying to keep themselves and family healthy. My questions are, how long would a deadly virus have to spread before it affects transportation, schools, water, electricity, basically the break down of society. also, I want them to be in quarantine inside Los Angeles where they can not leave at all but I do not know how to keep the virus inside the city? and anything else you'd like to add. Thank you!


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## Potty (Mar 18, 2012)

Only way to truly keep the virus in one area is to make sure it doesn become airborn. Even then it would be hard as human waste (urine etc) would eventually infect the water supply. Best way would be skin to skin contact. Have the army put up a blockade round the infected area and shoot anyone on site who tries to escape. Have the virus target humans only (So it wont jump species) to stop birds carrying the virus out of the area. If the area has been locked down the chances are your area will already be dysfunctional. Looting, riots etc.


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## Bloggsworth (Mar 18, 2012)

First pick your virus, then pick the people who will be susceptible, then choose a method of transmission and an incubation period. I say this because, if we were all equally vulnerable to any or all virii the human race would have been wiped ouy centuries ago. Los Angeles is a sophisticated city relying on modern technology to keep it running, I mean, 90% of the city's inhabitants would die within the first 24 hours if they couldn't get a skinny laté, a chocolate chocolate chip muffin and hold the mayo....

So, research a virus with a suitable profile and invent a new strain which does exactly what you require of it and proceed from there, you can't use an existing strain as it would already have completed the scenario you have outlined - That is your _get-out-of-jail-free_ card for your story.


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## Cefor (Mar 18, 2012)

You'll be hard pressed to find (or think of) a virus that's virulent enough to infect the whole city fast enough that they cannot cure it in time to stop the breakdown of the city, and that it doesn't spread outside of that city.

If it's spread by contact between infected people, if you don't know where just one person who has the disease has gone you can't control its spread. Did you know that on average we touch our face three to five times a minute? That transfers the virus onto your face, into your mouth and eyes... it's an easy way of spreading.

If you had water-borne, it would spread to the whole population quickly, but might be hard to control.

Air-borne, impossible to contain to one city.

Actually, just watch the 2011 film 'Contagion'. That's got everything you will need to know about deadly infectious diseases, and it's an awesome film.

Have fun!


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## Potty (Mar 18, 2012)

"outbreak" (film) might also be worth a watch as they struggle to contain a fast spreading virus.


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## SeverinR (Apr 16, 2012)

writerinCA said:


> I am writing a television series either about a deadly virus outbreak that leaves the main characters isolated in an American city trying to keep themselves and family healthy. My questions are, how long would a deadly virus have to spread before it affects transportation, schools, water, electricity, basically the break down of society. also, I want them to be in quarantine inside Los Angeles where they can not leave at all but I do not know how to keep the virus inside the city? and anything else you'd like to add. Thank you!



Are you talking modern times?
There is no way to contain a virus 100%. Our society moves so much from place to place.  The virus would have to start in a poor section of town so there is less mobility of the victims. If anyone exposed to the virus travels out of the city, it would more then likely spread it.  If a virus makes it to an airport, it can be transported to every port that airport serves, and once they have deplaned, every port that that airport served could have it.

Viruses can be spread by:
human secretions of all types.(Like Hepitius and Aids)
Airborne; (flu)

Ebolla is spread by both, secretions and airborne.

Smallpox and Bubonic plague are most commonly thought of when talking deaadly outbreaks.

Just a note for possibility.  Currently the MMR is on the drug shortage list. Maybe there is no immunizations available?

A variant of bubonic plague in a small dirty section of town, that has rats and mice? But containtment would be troublesome, as its the rodents and fleas that spread it, one gets away, the virus spreads. Variant so the traditional medicine isn't effective. Much like the toughening germs, that require new antibiotics to kill.
Just a thought


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## Euripides (Apr 19, 2012)

Ebola would kill relatively quickly after onset of symptoms (depending on strain)....I alwas wondered about a cross between something like ebola.....which is hard to pass but kills quickly with a high kill rate and the flu....which passes rapidly from person to person. 

What about the disease being something homecooked? There have been lots of articles over the past couple of years about garage-scientists..and how you can order almost any scientific equipment over the internet....even disease strains.

Contagion was an awesome movie....and I enjoyed the book the hot zone. 
(So much in fact my 4yr olds stuffed giraffe is named Ebola)


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## Abdul-fattah (May 25, 2012)

As bloggworths already hinted, the key would not only be how it transfers but also how long the incubation-period is.
If a person who's infected can walk around a couple of days before he starts getting sick; that would give him plenty opportunity to pass it over. Some diseases only become contagious after carrying it for a while, while others can be transferred almost immediately.


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## Guy Faukes (May 26, 2012)

Maybe play it off as a weaponized strain, which can be deployed rapidly and kills quickly. It would also give the government some time to set up quarantine making it more plausible.

BTw, there were strains of ebola that hit the US that were very contagious. Thing is, the virus wasn't nearly as deadly as other forms. Completely lucked out on that one.


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## Offeiriad (May 29, 2012)

Somehow I think things would be a ton easier if you weren't wanting this to happen in a huge city like LA.


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## Mad Cowboy (Jun 9, 2012)

There's a lot less gore than with like the black death, or even a fave the red death, called that because the blood somehow seeps out of the skin. Yet the biggest killer of all time in numbers was the Spanish influensa of like 1914-1915.  Lots of good material in it too including how the government kept the disease a secret while it was happening. They say now that more people died of flu then world war 1.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 10, 2012)

E-bola and bubonic plague are both bacterial diseases, you might get a nasty outbreak but modern medicine should be able to control them. A virus is not an independent being that divides to increase, though bacterial division can get quite complex, sharing DNA between many individuals. A virus injects a body cell with a small strand of DNA, this subverts the cell function and it starts producing more of the virus, in simple terms this makes it hard to hit without hitting the body cells as well.

Quarantine has *always* been tried, keep the disease contained, it has *never* worked. People trapped inside a quarantine area have a very strong motive to escape from it, and those supposedly containing them have strong motives not to get too near, or even to desert and get much further away. It may sound logical, but it does not take the human element into account.


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## The Backward OX (Jun 10, 2012)

Phooey - I thought this was a thread about computer viruses.


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## writerinCA (Jun 15, 2012)

thank you all for the suggestions and ideas! Like someone else said, perhaps I should make this happen in a small town as it would be easier to quarantine. The reason I wanted LA (or any big city) was the fact that I could show looting or dying in the streets at a large magnitude. Big cities often have different socioeconomic communities and I wanted to show how the wealthy might react versus how the poor and middle class would react to such an outbreak.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 15, 2012)

> The reason I wanted LA (or any big city) was the fact that I could show looting or dying in the streets at a large magnitude.


Why either or? this could be LA *and* every big city, just you are showing one as an example of what is happening worldwide. The quarantine thing then gets to be the other way around, rural communities trying to keep the strangers out.


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## Potty (Jun 15, 2012)

The Backward OX said:


> Phooey - I thought this was a thread about computer viruses.



Computer viruses are spread because not everything inserted into a floppy drive has adequate protection.


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## SeverinR (Jun 17, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> E-bola and bubonic plague are both bacterial diseases, you might get a nasty outbreak but modern medicine should be able to control them. A virus is not an independent being that divides to increase, though bacterial division can get quite complex, sharing DNA between many individuals. A virus injects a body cell with a small strand of DNA, this subverts the cell function and it starts producing more of the virus, in simple terms this makes it hard to hit without hitting the body cells as well.
> 
> Quarantine has *always* been tried, keep the disease contained, it has *never* worked. People trapped inside a quarantine area have a very strong motive to escape from it, and those supposedly containing them have strong motives not to get too near, or even to desert and get much further away. It may sound logical, but it does not take the human element into account.



Ebola is a virus, there is no proven treatment.

Medscape: Medscape Access


> Ebola virus is one of at least 30 known viruses capable of causing viral hemorrhagic fever syndrome.
> Presently, no specific therapy is available that has demonstrated efficacy in the treatment of Ebola hemorrhagic fever.


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## Mad Cowboy (Jun 19, 2012)

Encephalitis Kills 200 in Bihar, India « Fire Earth   this is ongoing , but a nice virus , 
Acute viral encephalitis is most often caused by a viral infection from a large list of viruses that include rabies virus, herpes simplex  virus (the virus that causes cold sores and the sexually transmitted  infection, STI, genital herpes), poliovirus, measles virus, JC virus,  West Nile Virus, mumps, varicella zoster virus (the virus which is  responsible for chickenpox in children and shingles in adults), and  rubella.

Exposure to viruses can occur through


Breathing in respiratory droplets from an infected person
Contaminated food or drink
*Mosquito, tick, and other insect bites*
Skin contact (Source A.D.A.M. Medical Encyclopedia and others
 Other causes may include an allergic reaction to vaccinations, autoimmune disease,  bacteria, such as Lyme disease, complication of an existing infectious  disease such as syphilis and tuberculosis, parasitic infestations, such  as malaria, roundworms, cysticercosis, and toxoplasmosis in AIDS  patients and other people who have a weakened immune system, or the  effects of cancer.
 For a list of other acute infections and symptoms click HERE.


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## Guy Faukes (Jun 20, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> Quarantine has *always* been tried, keep the disease contained, it has *never* worked. People trapped inside a quarantine area have a very strong motive to escape from it, and those supposedly containing them have strong motives not to get too near, or even to desert and get much further away. It may sound logical, but it does not take the human element into account.



Interestingly, there was a town in... England... maybe... a tailor received a spool of silk had ticks with bubonic plague in it and infected the town. When the townspeople learned it, they decided to cut themselves off from neighbouring towns. To get supplies in and minimize contact, they would drop money off in vinegar filled bottles to exchange for goods.


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 20, 2012)

guy_faukes said:


> Interestingly, there was a town in... England... maybe... a tailor received a spool of silk had ticks with bubonic plague in it and infected the town. When the townspeople learned it, they decided to cut themselves off from neighbouring towns. To get supplies in and minimize contact, they would drop money off in vinegar filled bottles to exchange for goods.


It sounds doubtful to me, knowledge of the means by which it was spread only came after Louis Pasteur for a start, the fleas would not have been significant, everyone had them anyway, (Fleas by the way, not ticks, different beast). Of course there were some remarkable stories, people who visited and tended the sick with apparent immunity, a village in Yorkshire where everybody except one woman died, she buried the rest. 

Interestingly there was a case in America the other day, someone bitten rescuing a mouse from a cat, apparently there are a small number each year but only a small percentage of people die nowadays, modern antibiotics can cope on the whole, as I said, it is the viral diseases we need to fear. That and don't rescue vermin.


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## Morkonan (Jul 27, 2012)

writerinCA said:


> I am writing a television series either about a deadly virus outbreak that leaves the main characters isolated in an American city trying to keep themselves and family healthy. My questions are, how long would a deadly virus have to spread before it affects transportation, schools, water, electricity, basically the break down of society. also, I want them to be in quarantine inside Los Angeles where they can not leave at all but I do not know how to keep the virus inside the city? and anything else you'd like to add. Thank you!



You really need to read this book : "The Hot Zone"

It's a best-seller and is a true "page turner." It's also a true story. Wiki - The Hot Zone Once read, you'll have all the material necessary to build believable references for your story.

As far as storyline believability and how to "keep the virus in the city", the simple answer is that you can't. A true outbreak that had such effects on a large, popular and populous city would quickly spread to other regions. You will have to use some sort of creative, entirely fictional, method to keep the virus isolated and keep infected people and/or animals from spreading it.


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## Euripides (Jul 27, 2012)

Hot Zone......*chills* loved that book.

Named my kid's musical stuffed giraffe Ebola in honor of that book. His nickname was Typhoid.


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## Morkonan (Jul 31, 2012)

Euripides said:


> Hot Zone......*chills* loved that book.
> 
> Named my kid's musical stuffed giraffe Ebola in honor of that book. His nickname was Typhoid.



Genius! Now I gotta go out and have a kid, just so I can name their stuffed animals. Hmm, maybe I can borrow a friend's and name their kid's stuffed animals? 

"Yes, that's "Chlamydia, the Adventure Bunny" and her sidekick bear, "Syphilis the Fair," little Janie."
_"Cool! I'll tell Mom we named them."_
"Good girl, I'm sure she'll be pleased."


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## vcnavega (Aug 3, 2012)

Well, since this is fiction you don’t need to use any known virus. You can invent a virus. And if you want it to happen in LA you should think about this city and what it has that is unique for this virus to have appeared in there. You can borrow from the known virus some features, but the rest you can customize to fit in your story.


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## writerinCA (Aug 25, 2012)

Thank you all!


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## starseed (Aug 25, 2012)

Is there a reason it has to be a virus? In my story I used some alien nanotech technology to produce something virus-like in a society. Since I invented the technology I could make it do whatever I wanted (which is some pretty nasty stuff). Just throwing it out there. Good luck on your story. I'm all about the apocolypse-style stories!


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