# How do I write from man's POV?



## cazann34 (Apr 25, 2014)

I'm a woman and I have difficulty writing MC who are male. My characters seem to lack that masculine something that defines them as men. How do I write from a man's point of view without falling into stereotypes?


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## Greimour (Apr 25, 2014)

I don't really know how to describe it, but... the only difference I have noticed really, in all writing (read and written) that remains the same is one point. 
Whether it's man or woman, the points of views, thoughts, feelings etc... they aren't that different. The actions or men can be camp, therefore in some ways feminine, and the actions of women can be tomboyish - therefore male. 
That in itself is a clue to writing about men (Tomboy girl or lesbian characteristics)

The only real difference however is: Men are the same as a women, but less emotionally orientated and more logic and reason.

It's not that men have less emotions. In fact, most emotions in men gravitate toward the extreme sides of the emotions... not much room in middle ground; it's a love-hate kind of thing. But men can think without feeling in ways women rarely do or simply can't.
For example, a man can see the injustice of an act, the inhumanity of it, the cold blooded condemned to hell situation that is before him... and yet, with reason, he can still order it be done or do it himself.
For example: "Go blow up that city..."
Women (not all granted): "What about the innocents. The children and stuff?" - "Sorry I can't" < compassion
Men (again, not all): "Why?" ... "OK sounds like a good enough reason to me." < didn't even think about the innocents, just wanted to know why.

Another example:
Police knock on two doors at the same time. One of a boy(Thomas) who has no criminal record and good grades in school. He recently passed his driving license and works part time to pay for the costs of running his car. The other is Michael; a boy known for causing trouble and messing with drugs. No life plans, bad grades and messing around on street corners.
The pair have been in a car crash and it is unknown what condition they are in except both are in hospital. 

*Home of first boy, father answers*
"Yes?"
- "Are you Mr Jenkins, father of Thomas Jenkins?"
"Yes, why... what has he done?" He asks calm and relaxed. < accusatory despite having such a good son.

*Home of other boy, mother answers*
"Yes? Is it Michael? Is he OK?" She asks panicking before she knows why they are there. < Instant concern for her son who is not at home.


So like I said... men find it easier to detach themselves from feelings in most cases... think rationally. But women have the compassion and emotional consistency to consider things men do not and tend to be irrational on many topics because emotions interfere with reason.

^ I am not being sexist, that's just how things generally are.


One final tip.

When you are writing about characters in books - for example, if one is going to die... you may get sad - but in that moment, you are thinking about how to go about it. You are performing the act yourself to some degree. You use logic and reason and planned thought to get the job done despite any feelings. Another character whose personality you hate, you write about without being prejudice towards that character - because he is your character and only being what you made him/her. 
In cases like that, your thoughts are likely to be very similar to how a man thinks in general. The emotions are there, but you ignore them to face the task at hand.

When it comes to writing from a mans point of view, it is the same as a woman... just use the same mental state of a writer when writing as a man. Thoughts and feelings active, but separate.


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## Dave Watson (Apr 25, 2014)

I always find that the best way to write realistic characters, male or female, is to base them on real people that you know personally. Think of guys that you actually know well, and consider the way they talk, act and think. If you know what a stereotype is, it should be easy to avoid them, and don't worry about a universal trait that gives your male characters a masculine feel. Make them diverse and interesting.


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## Greimour (Apr 25, 2014)

Dave Watson said:


> I always find that the best way to write realistic characters, male or female, is to base them on real people that you know personally. Think of guys that you actually know well, and consider the way they talk, act and think. If you know what a stereotype is, it should be easy to avoid them, and don't worry about a universal trait that gives your male characters a masculine feel. Make them diverse and interesting.



Agreed... 

My long winded post is just over thinking. There is very little that actually separates a man from a woman when you write about them from perspectives or point of view. You can have masculine women and feminine men. 

Universal Traits and Stereotypes are helpful though. Boys playing cowboys and indians whilst girls play house and have dolls for props. It's as much conditioning from birth as it is trait of gender. People say poetry is a thing for women, yet those same poems are usually written by men FOR women. It isn't that men know anymore about women than women know about men, in fact it's probably the reverse... 

I tend to let my female characters detach themselves from emotions and act - whilst my guys remain calm physically but psychologically explore the emotional ramifications of their actions before doing anything. 

Example would be Will Smith in Men in black - shot the little girl cutout cardboard instead of the Aliens.
Example 2 would be Harriet Jones in Doctor Who - despite the Aliens retreating after David Tennant beats them, she blows them up anyway to make an example of them. The Doctor immensely annoyed with the act ruins her career by whispering just a few words to someone that is there.


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## Sam (Apr 25, 2014)

The first thing you should do is stop trying to attribute masculine qualities in order to make your character read like a man.

Does anyone really remember any of Arnold Schwarzenegger's characters from the myriad of action flicks he starred in? Even I, a hard-core action junkie, can't remember the name of a person he played in any of them. But I do remember Julius Benedict, from _Twins_, because he somehow managed to be masculine and a memorable character. How did he pull that off? By being a character and not a set of masculine qualities amped up to the max. He had flaws, doubts, emotions -- and they made him real. Do all guys operate solely on logic and reason? No, but they've become really adept at hiding their emotion because it's been hammered into them since their pre-teens that they should 'man up' at all times. All men have fears, doubts, and moments of insecurity. If they tell you otherwise, they're lying, because _all _humans possess these traits. That's where you're going wrong. You shouldn't be looking at your MC as a man in need of masculinity, but as one in need of _character. _We're all characters with individual likes and dislikes. When you try to simplify your question to "how do I write like a man?", you're asking "what is the one attribute that all men possess which makes them inherently men?" Aside from anatomy, there is no answer to that question, just as there's no answer to the same question from a female perspective. 

Stop looking at how to make your MC a realistic man, and start looking at how to make him a realistic _character_.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 25, 2014)

Agree with Sam. Don't write a male (or female) character - write a person. If your characters seem to be lacking something, it's not masculinity or femininity - it's depth.


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## Kevin (Apr 25, 2014)

I find that people on here have written without stating the gender, or their gender, successfully pulling off a male by simply putting them in circumstance. "he" did this or "he" did that...


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## J Anfinson (Apr 25, 2014)

Kevin said:


> I find that people on here have written without stating the gender, or their gender, successfully pulling off a male by simply putting them in circumstance. "he" did this or "he" did that...



That's basically all I do to write from a female perspective. Sometimes it can feel a little awkward when getting into the opposite sexes head to write the more romantic scenes, but I just try to imagine how my wife would act.


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## Trygve (Apr 25, 2014)

If you're really struggling, just write a throw-away dialogue scene between your character and a couple of your girlfriends, real or fictional.  Forget the action and scenery, except if they're talking about it. Just write dialogue fast, and a voice will begin to emerge. Once you have the character's voice, you're on your way, unless you absolutely need a scene with his junk caught in the zipper.  This is what I did with my Central Flyway submissions, and I felt like I really kind of found the voice of my main character, and I've been writing first person from her point of view.  I'm only doing that because the whole thing was really flat in third person.   Central Flyway1, Central Flyway2.  I had no sisters and only one girlfriend before I met my wife, so if I can do it, anybody can.


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## cazann34 (Apr 26, 2014)

Thanks all for your comments but I feel a little context is needed. I am writing a short story in first person, present. About a man and his wife, they are a young couple, have been married three years. They have a close loving relationship until a 'force' is brought into their lives. The wife begins to change, she's no longer the bubbly fun loving woman my MC married. She becomes withdrawn and distance and gradually sinks into a vegetable-like state. Think invasion of the bodysnatchers but without the pods. 

My question is, how would the husband react? Would he fall into despair at the slow lose of his wife or would he think logically and take action-violent or otherwise?


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## J Anfinson (Apr 26, 2014)

Does he know right away what's causing it? I would think the first thing (as a guy myself) he would wonder about is if she's sick if she's acting funny. He'd be trying to convince her to go see a doctor. If he knows it's some alien force or whatever, I'd think he'd call someone for help, even if it's just a friend. Who wants to battle something you know nothing about, alone? He'd be investigating it, trying to learn whatever he can to find its weakness.

I'm sure he'd be despairing at the same time, but I was taught that crying over your problems doesn't fix anything, so I think it's likely a guy would be taking action even through the torment.


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## Dave Watson (Apr 26, 2014)

cazann34 said:


> Thanks all for your comments but I feel a little context is needed. I am writing a short story in first person, present. About a man and his wife, they are a young couple, have been married three years. They have a close loving relationship until a 'force' is brought into their lives. The wife begins to change, she's no longer the bubbly fun loving woman my MC married. She becomes withdrawn and distance and gradually sinks into a vegetable-like state. Think invasion of the bodysnatchers but without the pods.
> 
> My question is, how would the husband react? Would he fall into despair at the slow lose of his wife or would he think logically and take action-violent or otherwise?



Don't want to sound unhelpful, but I'd say it's impossible for anyone else to tell you how a character _you created_ would act. You "gave birth" to him, so to speak, raised him and nurtured him. Like a parent, you know him best. Have confidence in your parenting skills and don't let anyone else tell you how to raise your kid, even if they are a bit unruly sometimes!


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## shadowwalker (Apr 26, 2014)

Echoing Dave here, and repeating myself - it doesn't matter a hill of beans whether the character is male or female. How would _your _character react to their partner changing? This is one of the biggest parts of writing - knowing how your characters will act/react to the things you put them through. Nobody can do that for you.


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## Kevin (Apr 26, 2014)

What sort is he? Is he the decisive, take-action type, or more of a 'just let it go'? Does he let it go till it gets bad enough and then decides he's got to do something/he can't take it anymore? Can he see a fix? Is there one?  Does he ask for outside assistance, go off to the pub and drown, or... make plans to leave and meet someone new? he could go through combinations, stages...


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## Erik Fantasia (Apr 27, 2014)

I write both genders as centeral characters. Try not to think if the charecters in terms of male or female. Why are you using a male character? What traits does he posess? When writing romance or heavily emotion laden works you don't even want to consentrate on the person but his relationship with others. Otherwise he is still a person. What is your idea of the human? Let that define him. Let the story take him. And let him define himself.


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## A_Jones (Apr 27, 2014)

I read something about this once.  Something about men being waffles and women being speghetti.  Supposedly men compartmentalize things while women string together their thoughts.  

I dont know how true this is.   I write my book FAE from both a woman and a mans perspective and no one has told me they feel that they are badly represented in their sex so my advice is just to write as you think you should.  Dont add or subtract things you dont like such and stereo types because you think you arent representing them properly.


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## aj47 (Apr 27, 2014)

Many of my characters are male because I write a lot of baseball stuff and Da Roolz say women can't play in the major leagues.  I just think of them as people.  What makes them male isn't as important as what makes them unique characters. Because masculinity is only a part of their personality.  Unless you're writing sex scenes, it really isn't necessary to think in terms of the sex of the person(s) involved.  In the bedroom, it matters; otherwise, not-so-much.


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## bookmasta (Apr 27, 2014)

If you're still having trouble with people's examples and advice, you can always read a few novels that have a male protagonist similar to what you're looking to portray in your book.


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## cazann34 (Apr 29, 2014)

As usually I have left no stone unturned and have done a little research and I have found this:



> I’ve read stats that women say 20,000 words per day compared to men speaking only 7,000 per day. Just because they’re not talking out loud, doesn’t mean things are silent inside. So, there’s a bit more introspection with male leads. Though, you need to make sure it comes in short bursts, but that’s a whole ‘nother post.
> 
> – Men are more sight driven. Yep, what they see sticks in their minds. So, when writing a male POV, you’re going to be seeing a lot more. Come on, though, there are still feelings and thoughts going on, too, but most are stimulated by the sight of something.



This is quoted from: http://www.writersdigest.com/editor-blogs/guide-to-literary-agents/writing-the-male-point-of-view. Written by Lynn Rush.

I'm curious whether the men of the forum would agree with this. And would it be a good way forward in writing an accurate male prospective?


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## popsprocket (Apr 29, 2014)

I certainly talk a lot less than the women I know, and I think constantly but I've never been in someone else's head so I can't confirm whether or not I think more than the average person.


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## dale (Apr 29, 2014)

cazann34 said:


> I'm a woman and I have difficulty writing MC who are male. My characters seem to lack that masculine something that defines them as men. How do I write from a man's point of view without falling into stereotypes?



i actually really enjoy writing from a female's POV. whether it's "stereotyping" or not doesn't even concern me. and really? i think a lot of the most
interesting writing i've read has been a male writing a female POV or a female writing a male POV. it's probably a more honest dimension or perception
of gender character. write your male as you see males.


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## Erik Fantasia (Apr 30, 2014)

I can't agree with the male assesment. I talk tons, think a huge amount, connect many ideas, don't compartamentalize, and most certianly feel with or without sight orientation. In my experiences people are people. There may be differences dependent on sex regarding tastes but never generalize a gender. I am who I am, not who my gender says I am.


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## T.S.Bowman (May 1, 2014)

I definitely put things in their own compartments.

There were some serious family issues going on here in my household over the last few weeks. There were several things at once. I had to take each of them and deal with the separately.My girlfriend, however, worried about all of them at the same time.


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## Elvenswordsman (May 1, 2014)

Watch some videos of men behaving like the men you would imagine your MC behaving like, and then write it. 

Other than that, just ask yourself "What would Elven do?"


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## Erik Fantasia (May 3, 2014)

Probably watch videos. So it is circular logic.


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## bazz cargo (May 5, 2014)

I cannot remember who I'm quoting.

Think egotestical.


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## Greimour (May 5, 2014)

I think the answer was covered by someone already. 
Crappy statistics, sexist generalization, accurate generalization, globally accepted statistics, agreed opinions outweighing opposing opinions...

the list goes on.. who cares...

1. Write your characters the way you see them acting... saying what they say, doing what they do and being who they are the way you see them/created them.
2. Don't get hung up on the sex of a character - male or female doesn't exist. Write a male the same you would a female, the female the same you would a male. Making a character male means the character has male body parts and it is _almost_ entirely limited at that. Women can be stronger than men and more masculine... and men can be weaker and more feminine than women. Don't get hung up on it.

Whoever said "write men the same way you write women" was exactly right in what they said.

Write the person (character) not the gender.

I don't know how else to word it. The more you try to make you male character male, the less of a person he becomes and more of a tool to fit a purpose. Real characters are people... I am a man, but I know no more and no less about how other men think than you do. I don't know if a man will react like a giant sissy or an emotionless statue anymore than you do. I only know how _I_ will react. In fact, I don't even know that... I only know how I think I will react. The reality may prove different.

I do know however, how my characters react. Male or female doesn't matter... because I know my characters better than I know myself.


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## Erik Fantasia (May 5, 2014)

If you still have trouble, even with this view, then make a list of traits. Or better yet, spend time with your character. And develop your character beyond what you need for the book. They shouldn't feel real, they should be real. Sometimes you'll find THEM taking YOU places.


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## Morkonan (May 6, 2014)

cazann34 said:


> I'm a woman and I have difficulty writing MC who are male. My characters seem to lack that masculine something that defines them as men. How do I write from a man's point of view without falling into stereotypes?




http://www.davidlynch.de/dunescreenplay.txt

       REVEREND MOTHER
               Your mother wants you to tell me about
               your dreams. I only want to know one
               thing.... Do they come true?

                          PAUL
               Not all of them... I know which ones will.

                     REVEREND MOTHER
               Perhaps you are the Kwisatz Haderach.

                          PAUL
               What is it?

                     REVEREND MOTHER
                    (profoundly)
               The person who can be many places at
               once... the one who bridges space and
               time.... He will look where we cannot.

                          PAUL
               Where?

                     REVEREND MOTHER
               Do you know of the Water of Life?... the
               Truthsayer drug?

                          PAUL
               I have heard of it.
--
                     REVEREND MOTHER
               It is very dangerous... very painful. The
               Bene Gesserit sisterhood drink it to see
               within.... There is a place terrifying to
               us... to women. It is said a man will
               come... the Kwisatz Haderach... he will go
               where we cannot... Many men have tried...

                          PAUL
               Did they try and fail?

                     REVEREND MOTHER
               They tried and died....

Well, that's enough of that...  

One thing that you must understand is that our physiology is different... Not only do we have different plumbing, we have basic evolutionary differences that take the form of hormonal forcers - Evolution demands that we have different hormones and those hormones act to drive us in different ways.

I can not experience the intrinsic love that a Mother feels for her offspring. I can not experience what it feels like for a woman to lose her child or to suffer terribly from Post Partum Depression. But, I'm a writer - I can write about it. That's what it is to be a writer! You don't have to experience something in order to write about it, but you do have to do your Research in order to arm yourself with the necessary knowledge to write about it _credibly._ And, that's what you're doing, here.

To me, there's an implication that is not entirely communicable between the sexes when someone makes a statement to a man to  "be a Man." The most that we can hope to do is to allow the Reader to empathize as much as possible with shared experience in order to understand how such a statement would be interpreted by a character. That is what you have to do when writing about male characters - Focus on finding points of common interest with all human beings, not just males, and focus on empathy as much as possible in situations that are generically understood. Once you have a firm foundation in that regard, then you can start inserting small bits and pieces of esoteric knowledge that you might lack, but can nonetheless write about.

Something illuminating that you may be interested in reading. Written by David Gemmell (RIP): 

_“Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil. Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender. It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found.” - The Iron Code of Druss the Legend_

What does that say about being a "Man?" Well, it defines what being a man means within Gemmell's Setting for his story, doesn't it? Isn't that what we do with all stories? In your pursuit of writing from a Man's point of view, define what that point of view is for yourself and make sure that it can be determined as being "Valid" within your setting. For instance, your "man" may not follow the Iron Code of Druss the Legend. Instead, he may be within a culture that promotes the non-violent resolution of conflicts.

See how that works?

Generally, "Men" try to aspire to achieving "ideals" within their own culture in regards to what their place within it happens to be. Women do the same, of course. Being a "good mother" has differing definitions across cultures. So, be sure that the ideal role for each is somehow adequately defined within the culture you're dealing with and that the character's operate within. Your "ideal" character will attempt to achieve these personal goals. The broken ones will try repeatedly and fail....

But, for a general flavor of "Male" perspective, consider this:

Men are in constant competition. They compete for mates and for status. But, they are only hard-wired to compete amongst themselves for these things. Think on that, for a moment, and then apply it to current cultures - How do men who are hard-wired only to compete amongst themselves for cultural and evolutionarily desirable goals going to deal with women who are now empowered by their culture to do the same? Women in the workplace.... See how problems arise, there?

No honest man will ever state that they are not constantly seeking attractive potential mates. They may have no intention of pursuing such a thing and they wouldn't even normally acknowledge to themselves that this is occurring. However, no normal man worthy of the title is not driven to be inspired or stimulated by the appearance of a sexually desirable mate - It just doesn't happen. However, we are so familiar with our own constant obsession with this behavior that we often do not notice it. Thus, why men (and women, btw) frequently stare at a woman's breasts in an absent-minded fascination, no matter the circumstances. We're sorry... We're just stoopid and can't help ourselves.

I am a "male chauvinist" in some ways. But, in all the "good ones", I think.  A good man holds the utmost respect for a woman, any woman, without having to be told or found at fault for overlooking such a necessary duty. A good man will never, ever, shirk his responsibilities to his mate - Ever. And, in turn, a good man must allow for the necessary personal growth and freedom of his mate, as accepted within our cultures and according to her personal desires. We are partners, women and men. However, there is one arena in which Men are evolutionarily hardwired and more imminently capable of engaging within - Combat. I'm not talking about anyone's "Right" to fight for what they believe in. I'm talking about the rigors and necessities which physical force are used within and amongst males in our culture, including such activities, but not limited to, warfare.

But, let's talk about real-world examples - A man and a woman go to a bar. The woman gets drunk and picks a fight with another woman. A good man can not engage except to prevent harm to either combatant. Period. This is not negotiable. However, if the woman picks a fight with another man, then her partner must engage or lose face.... And, it's often for this reason that women pick fights with men in bars - So they can watch their boyfriends engage in primal activities that flush the senses and stimulate certain appetites.  

But, while walking into a convenience store and witnessing a man being fatally stabbed with a knife, with fountains of blood exploding all over the place, men and women typically do different things. For a true "Man", you get tunnel-vision, a heightened sense of alertness that first helps you ascertain danger and then, possibility for action. Within seconds, you decide whether or not this event requires you to flee or to act in support of your cultures values in order to affirm your status and your own self-interpretation of it. A "Man" in certain cultures would rush to the assistance of the assailed individual, upholding cultural values that would demand such an action. IMO, these are not the same responses one would find within a woman, fueled by slightly different motivations and hormones. There is no implication of inferiority. In truth, Men are probably inferior to Women in some ways, as dictated by the slightly changing traditional cultural values we see making their way into everyday life.

Yes, I'm rambling...

The point is that for you, a female writer, to write convincingly from a Male perspective, and to include those things which may be considered to be esoteric knowledge and experience, you must find some way to outwardly define that for yourself. You can not rely on individual and anecdotal experience in order to give you necessary clues. So, I'm referring to how men, from my perspective, frame the "ideal image" of themselves and how much the culture shared, which you will be familiar with, between men and women has to do with that ideal image. There are hormonal and evolutionary perspectives to consider which we have not completely done away with, despite our much vaunted technology, "superior" culture and "evolution" as a species. When it comes right down to it, with a few exceptions, we have not changed very much in over 50,000 years. Certainly mankind as a species has not changed much at all, even culturally, in the past 10,000 years. Even sex-roles have not dramatically changed, regardless of the cultures we are discussion. Keep such things in mind when writing your male PoV - It's nothing new.


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## Jeko (May 7, 2014)

With patience. All characters take time, especially those that always feel like they never come together the way you want them to. They never will, unless you give them the time in space they need to do so.


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## Clove (May 7, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> No honest man will ever state that they are not constantly seeking attractive potential mates. They may have no intention of pursuing such a thing and they wouldn't even normally acknowledge to themselves that this is occurring. However, no *normal man* worthy of the title is not driven to be inspired or stimulated by the appearance of a sexually desirable mate - It just doesn't happen. However, we are so familiar with our own constant obsession with this behavior that we often do not notice it. Thus, why men (and women, btw) frequently stare at a woman's breasts in an absent-minded fascination, no matter the circumstances. We're sorry... We're just stoopid and can't help ourselves.



Eurgh. What is this distinction of 'normality' that you seek to impose upon genders? What is a 'normal' man and why does it need to be linked to competitiveness, sexual attraction, and other arbitrary factors e.g. asexual people do exist - and they are not lesser people because of their sexual behaviours. You theories on male/women behaviour are reductionist and vaguely, as you said, chauvinist. Men cannot justify their behaviour - such as staring at a woman's breasts - on some silly primal instinct; if anything, it's society that has taught men that it is okay for them to do so. No one is doubting evolution's role in creation of the self, but to reduce actions to a chemical level completely disregards the complexity of how we, as a society, have evolved and changed our patterns from animals. The ideal of the 'man' changes completely given different cultures and historical periods, and is continuing to change as we speak: there is no true 'man' or 'women', only the projected ideals that we as a society think such a person should aspire to - however, obviously, such ideals are stereotypical and dangerous, and always in the act of being subverted. 

At the end of the day, for a writer, there is no difference between a male and female POV; the only difference exists through the characteristics of your individual character, and your labelling of such a character (through pronouns etc.) Your reader will not question your decision to write about what may be a 'stereotypically' un-masculine male, or 'stereotypically' masculine female - because these outliers in personalities exist in our society. Furthermore characters need to be tailored into certain situations: there is no universal male POV.


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## shadowwalker (May 7, 2014)

I get uncomfortable any time someone tries to depict what any gender will do, as if individuality did not exist below a certain level. Neither men nor women are constantly doing anything. People _may _find they are attracted to another person for any number of reasons, and based on the level of attraction, _may _find themselves thinking of a 'mate'. But I don't believe either gender is 'constantly' looking for a mate and that's what determines who they're attracted to. I'm attracted to a lot of different men but the desire to make any of them my 'mate' is rare - which also doesn't mean I'm asexual.

Leave the stereotypes, the labeling, the preconceived notions aside. Look at the individual character and how _s/he_ would act/react.


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## stormageddon (May 7, 2014)

Asexual right here! More accurately, an "asexual biromantic" - I can become romantically attracted to either gender, but the idea of actually doing anything repulses me. And...I'd like to say I'm normal, but you all know I'm a total weirdo already >.> I've had to stop classifying myself as human simply to avoid the line "you can't be asexual, that goes against everything it is to be human."

Normal is defined by the people you're surrounded by, IMO. Of my six or seven good friends, I believe just one of them is heterosexual, so for me, heterosexuality would be abnormal. I suppose that explains why most of the characters I write seem to be gay...

As an irritatingly opinionated person who believes stereotypical notions of "gender" to be purely social constructions, I don't even think about gender when writing. A character comes to me, I write their story based on the personality I know them to have - people are people.
There is a difference between sex and gender, sex being the biological aspect and gender the psychological aspect of what makes us male and female. As I said, I believe gender to be a load of culturally determined bollocks. In terms of sex, if you are male, you will have different hormones to a female, and in some cases a stronger sex drive, but a large part of what it means to be human is the transcendence of nature, in many ways.

And oh dear, " no normal man worthy of the title...Thus, why men (and women, btw) frequently stare at a woman's breasts in an absent-minded fascination, no matter the circumstances. We're sorry... We're just stoopid and can't help ourselves." ...anyone that argues "I'm staring at your boobs because I'm genetically programmed to" is a creep, I am sorry to say, because most humans have some degree of self control - hormones are not an excuse for being a sexist, creepy little whatsit. A man worthy of the title is a man that doesn't make me want to run from the room screaming =_=

Furthermore, people of the same sex have different preferences and drives. Some men can think of nothing but sex, some men have very little interest in it at all. Both are real men, however some may be more pleasant to hang around with than others. As I said, I have no interest in sex at all, except as a source of comedy, but I'm pretty sure I can still call myself female, and really, I probably am human.

I don't believe that gender has any bearing on the actions my characters would take, because I don't put stereotypical ideas of gender into my stories unless I am making a point with them - they annoy me. I don't want to sound like I'm annoyed with anyone in this thread, just a few of the ideas put forth. You're all lovely <3


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## ToriJ (May 7, 2014)

I'm a man that's been writing from a woman's perspective since 2005. My advantage is the fact I've always been what some would call a "feminine male" as such it hasn't been too hard to identify with the women I'm writing in certain areas. The best advice I can give other than what those have been saying about individuality first, is to think about how the character was raised. What values were he taught to hold dear? What was his relationship with his parents like? What little things influenced him? I myself was brought up in a loving home. I was taught to respect people. Color and gender were never factors on how I should treat them. I grew up on shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Xena, so my perceived notions on what women could do were pretty broad, as such the women in my stories are not tied down to one or two roles and men shouldn't be either. All of these things are responsible for the kind of person I am today. If you can flesh out his background then how he behaves in the present should come to you a lot more naturally.


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## shinyford (May 7, 2014)

Wow, that's one of the toughest writing questions I think I've ever had to think about.

Without wanting to sound conceited, I *think* I'm not too bad at writing well-characterised, um, characters, both male and female. And whomsoever the character is, the process is the same: I just let them tell me their dialogue and actions in my head. I'll tell them what I want them to say or do, and then they tell me how they'd say or do it. (Sometimes I don't even do the first bit - they just tell me what they're going to say or do next. More than once I've been surprised by where a story has gone and how it has concluded.)

I realise that's all sorts of wrong. Sounds a bit mad, only works for people for whom that sort of thing works, and may - give a read to some of my stuff and be the judge - actually not work at all, my belief that it works being just another manifestation of the madness that has me having characters talk to me in the first place. But that's the way I do it; and it's nothing to do with gender, just with how different people do and say things.

(NB when I first wrote the above, I managed to use the phrase "I just let them tell me their dialogue and actions in my heads". I think that says enough about my mental state here in itself.)


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## shadowwalker (May 7, 2014)

shinyford said:


> just let them tell me their dialogue and actions in my head. I'll tell them what I want them to say or do, and then they tell me how they'd say or do it. (Sometimes I don't even do the first bit - they just tell me what they're going to say or do next. More than once I've been surprised by where a story has gone and how it has concluded.)



That's not odd at all. That's what happens when a writer knows their character so well, even if subconsciously, that their words and actions are known before one even writes it down. You know when they're behaving in character and when they're not. To have that happen is one of the greatest joys of writing.


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## Morkonan (May 7, 2014)

Clove said:


> Eurgh. What is this distinction of 'normality' that you seek to impose upon genders? What is a 'normal' man and why does it need to be linked to competitiveness, sexual attraction, and other arbitrary factors e.g. asexual people do exist - and they are not lesser people because of their sexual behaviours. You theories on male/women behaviour are reductionist and vaguely, as you said, chauvinist. Men cannot justify their behaviour - such as staring at a woman's breasts - on some silly primal instinct; if anything, it's society that has taught men that it is okay for them to do so.



Really? But... Women do it as well and just as often as men.

CBS - Women stare at other women's chest as much as men

Where is "society" in either allowing or justifying that behavior? True, there are strong cultural forcers that effect both men and women in this behavior. But, these are more primal than common social fancy.

Yes, asexual people do exist. Some even exist by choice. But, there are probably a good many that exist that way due to factors other than willful action. Outliers are not good general examples of anything.



> No one is doubting evolution's role in creation of the self, but to reduce actions to a chemical level completely disregards the complexity of how we, as a society, have evolved and changed our patterns from animals. The ideal of the 'man' changes completely given different cultures and historical periods, and is continuing to change as we speak: there is no true 'man' or 'women', only the projected ideals that we as a society think such a person should aspire to - however, obviously, such ideals are stereotypical and dangerous, and always in the act of being subverted.



Ignoring the physical and hormonal differences and drives that the basic, ground level, scaffolding that a human being, and the subsequent "person", is made of is denying a physical fact - We are organic creatures and our behaviors are _influenced_ by our physiology. However, we do not have to be "slaves" to our hormones - We have free will. Yes, we should acknowledge that we have the ability to make choices. But, some choices are more difficult to make than others and, no matter the choice, some of the forcers that will determine the weight we give to our options are going to be heavily influenced by our differing physiologies.

There are no ubermenchen. But, every culture has idealized versions of its members that are strongly encouraged. This does not mean that such idealized versions are shared throughout an entire culture. Sub-cultures are often more immediate and more important. A sub-culture that values money-at-all-costs and violence will have ideals that clash with a companion sub-culture that has values of integrity and non-aggression. But, in looking at ourselves operating within a human society, we often measure ourselves against what it is that we believe society would have of us and those things that our society values. That's the nature of the social animal.



> At the end of the day, for a writer, there is no difference between a male and female POV..



There certainly is a difference between a male and female point of view if you are trying to make such a distinction. If the OP did not care about making such a distinction, there wouldn't be any particular issue, would there? I do understand your point, but there are also certain stereotypical qualities that are normally interpreted as exclusive to either men or women. If there weren't any, there wouldn't be such a word as "stereotype."

I know that many would argue the point that "There are no differences between men and women" and they may take that argument to extremes. But, there are differences. Sometimes they're insignificant and not worthy of much observation. But, at other times, if we ignore those differences as writers, we're making a huge mistake and we're completely missing out on exploring one of the more wonderful things about being a human being. I, for one, would go nuts if women had all the same qualities as men... Where would I experience the magic and wonder of exploring the intricacies of an alien species if there weren't any "women" around?

(PS - Yes, I didn't hold back too much with my earlier post. That's because I do believe there are true differences between the sexes and we're doing ourselves a disservice if we attempt to blur the lines that evolution has created. However, that's not to say that I believe in the inferiority or superiority of either sex. In fact, I think most women have more in favor of them being the superior half of our species than men do...  )


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## Morkonan (May 7, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> ...Leave the stereotypes, the labeling, the preconceived notions aside. Look at the individual character and how _s/he_ would act/react.



I understand the spirit of your post.

However...

Now we come to crux of it, don't we? We come to the illuminating moment that I believe we, as writers, should benefit from in this discussion - Without "stereotypes", how can a Writer write something that's worth the Reader experiencing? Must we spend three-hundred pages developing our narrator/protagonist so that the Reader can then grasp enough of their personal desires, drives and social needs, after which only to then begin to construct the story? Must we constantly, with every story, rewrite an entire culture so that we can only then proceed from some surely understood Lexicon we've just laid out for the Reader?

We must be able to communicate to the Reader and, in doing so, we have to be able to rely on certain conventional understandings, many of which rely on "stereotypes." The shared understanding of "stereotypes" and other cultural symbols is absolutely necessary for full communication. It's why, in fact, some books fail in foreign markets - The Writer just doesn't understand cultural stereotypes very well and has made improper use of them. Heck, evolutionarily reinforced social systems rely very heavily  on "stereotypes." No knowledge is useful for survival unless it has some sort of predictive value. "Stereotypes" are full of "predictive value", that's why we have them to begin with.

We _can_ write without using stereotypes as a part of our means to communicate efficiently. However, if we intentionally do this, we're just cutting off our own foot, forcing ourselves to hobble down a road that's already hard enough to travel. We're forcefully limiting the possibilities for a full experience of the story for the Reader in favor of rewriting cultural history in every page..

Instead of focusing on breaking down stereotypical boundaries, what we should be doing is pointing out differences and interesting exceptions and qualities while presenting the Reader not with some grey soup intentionally full of inanity, but a rich broth full of surprising and delightful experiences. Sure, deviate from "stereotypes" when it's valuable for you to do so in your story. But, we shouldn't attempt to purposefully do that for no greater reason that we have some false belief that they don't exist.

We need shared understanding to communicate effectively. One of those mechanisms is the use of "stereotypes" and crippling ourselves on a false principle does not help reward the Reader with an enjoyable experience. If we are crafting a story in which there are differences between men and women, we must either take great pains to reconstruct human culture in print, page by page, or rely on certain stereotypes that we can then "amend" with singularly important differences that are worthwhile for our story.


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## Kevin (May 7, 2014)

Geesus , that sounds boring. I mean, writing a stereotype while knowing it's a stereotype. If your character happens to cross into stereotype okay, it happens, but to set out to do it just sounds horrible; not bad, but not fun. Camp or exaggeration, for comedy's sake okay, but even then *yawn*.


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## Kevin (May 7, 2014)

lets keep this on topic. Arguments about Natural v. not natural is not relevant here, is it? 

In case anyone has forgotten:   *How do I write from man's POV?*


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## Mutimir (May 7, 2014)

Write from a woman's POV and then change the name to Chris Christopherson.


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## Greimour (May 7, 2014)

Markonan said:
			
		

> No honest man will ever state that they are not constantly seeking  attractive potential mates. They may have no intention of pursuing such a  thing and they wouldn't even normally acknowledge to themselves that  this is occurring. However, no normal man worthy of the title is not  driven to be inspired or stimulated by the appearance of a sexually  desirable mate - It just doesn't happen.



What if the man was asexual? Could he honestly say he is not seeking an attractive potential mate? - OR would he not be considered '_normal_' (Just curious)


What you (Markonan) said about man having ideals, and then equally that women have ideals... doesn't it boil down to the same thing? 
With: "As long as it fits the setting" ... isn't that also equal for both genders?

I am not going to spin off into a ramble to state for a third time that writing for one is writing for the other. I will just say this.
*
Amazonian Women.* As long as it fits the setting, it is fine no matter how you write them, right? And you don't have to get super technical and show off all a mans great masculine qualities. You can literally have "male name" - "referred to as male" and be sufficiently male for the story. If you wanted an extra, make him strong... or if not strong, make him chivalrous or noble in some way... or a player who flirts with women all the time. 

or if you would prefer to stick to "real people" look at a few famous people who are more feminine than most women I meet.

Graham Norton
Keneth Williams
Frankie Howard
Alan Carr (annoying guy)

And then I could do the same with women who are more masculine than most men.


There are some actions men are not likely to do, but they can be overruled if society has conditioned them in a certain way. But those things come under common sense usually. Like - a woman showing desire may lean in on a man, press her body against his... where a man probably wont do that - he'd be more likely to to reach a hand out to hers or whilst walking down the street put his hand on the small of her back as if to guide her - and countless other things... but as I said, that's mostly common sense. As a woman, you know to a degree what women (generic) do and don't do - equally you know where these things differ from men. They are pretty much the only points you might need to be aware of - but I can't see many people making those kind of mistakes to begin with. Not unless you are an Amazonian woman yourself? o.0


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## shadowwalker (May 8, 2014)

I would never want to rely on stereotypes for other than the very first time I "meet" the characters I write. It's the most basic starting point. I would venture to say that within 3-4 sentences (if it even takes that long), any stereotypes have gone bye-bye in my writing. That's because I want to drop the cardboard cutouts as quickly as humanly possible. I've read far too many books where the author thinks stereotypes are the way to "reach" the reader. Those writers, thankfully, either learn differently or quit writing.


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## InstituteMan (May 8, 2014)

Kevin said:


> lets keep this on topic. Arguments about Natural v. not natural is not relevant here, is it?
> 
> In case anyone has forgotten:   *How do I write from man's POV?*



While I love discussions about the essentials (or non-essentials) of gender, sexuality, evolutionary psychology, hormones and physiology, nature vs. nurture, and all the rest, I think that the ultimate answer as to how to write from a man's (or woman's) POV is to do it poorly repeatedly, but to learn from the failures.

The first time I made a serious attempt to write from a woman's POV, InstituteWoman gently pointed out that my efforts were totally bunk. That was a couple of years ago, and I am not sure that I am _good _at writing from a female perspective now, but I am sure that I am much better at it than I used to be. 

FWIW, I think that most characters are going to have to bring some stereotypes, gender or otherwise, to the party simply because real people will always have some stereotypical aspect to their personality. Scratch below the stereotype and things will usually be more interesting. 

For example, a straight dude who likes sports, beer, and whiskey while finding women sexually attractive is a rather large stereotype and not really an interesting main character with nothing more. A story about a straight dude who likes sports/beer/whiskey/women but who teaches kindergarten and cross-stitches in his spare time could be quite interesting. He could get even more interesting if his preferences in sports/beer/whiskey/women fall outside of the mainstream in some way, as they inevitably would if he were an actual person. Starting a character with stereotypes (gender or otherwise) is one thing, but stopping at the stereotype will have me leaving the book half read.


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## shinyford (May 8, 2014)

Greimour said:


> or if you would prefer to stick to "real people" look at a few famous people who are more feminine than most women I meet.
> 
> Graham Norton
> Keneth Williams
> ...


Probably not worth stating, but for me those men aren't feminine at all. Camp, yes - but camp expresses quite differently between men and women. Those people are very, very male, just very, very camp. 

The fact that they're also all gay is actually unrelated - Hal Cruttenden for example is just as camp, and as straight as it's possible to be; and conversely, as Hal himself points out, Alexander the Great was gay but never once led a charge shouting "onwards to Persia, girls - the shopping's FAB!"

Sorry - this is arguably off topic again, though personally I think pertinent. Apologies if not - please delete as applicable.


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## J.C.O Goss (May 8, 2014)

As others have said, this is the kind of question only you can really  answer effectively. Simply put, there are countless men who would fall  into despair, and countless men who would smoothly take the necessary  actions to respond to the situation. For me, writing women has always  come as easy to me as writing men, because I don't look at it as writing  a woman or writing a man. It's not how a man reacts to a situation, or how a woman reacts to a situation, it's how the individual person reacts. The way you talk, it's almost as if you think every man would react the same and every woman would react the same, and any who reacted differently must have something wrong with them.


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## DondreKhan (May 8, 2014)

Dave Watson said:


> I always find that the best way to write realistic characters, male or female, is to base them on real people that you know personally. Think of guys that you actually know well, and consider the way they talk, act and think. If you know what a stereotype is, it should be easy to avoid them, and don't worry about a universal trait that gives your male characters a masculine feel. Make them diverse and interesting.



This is what I encurage you to do.  If you base difficult characters off someone you know well, it makes them convincing and creating them easy.


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## Morkonan (May 8, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Geesus , that sounds boring. I mean, writing a stereotype while knowing it's a stereotype. If your character happens to cross into stereotype okay, it happens, but to set out to do it just sounds horrible; not bad, but not fun. Camp or exaggeration, for comedy's sake okay, but even then *yawn*.



OK, here's the question - You have a narrator, right? Your narrator is a male. OK, gotcha. Now, aside from just describing his plumbing and writing lots of "he saids," how are you going to _credibly_ communicate the fact that the narrator is a male to the Reader? Remember, you want to do this. You're concerned with doing this. You wish the Reader to be able to read passages other than dialogue attributions and come away with the correct characterization of your narrator as "male."

How do you do that?

How do you do that without using what people are constantly referring to as "stereotypes?" Stereotypes are not _bad_, they necessary. They're necessary in order for a writer to avoid having to rewrite cultural history with every single novel. What's important when dealing with such things as are being defined as "stereotypes" in writing, is to make such characterizations "interesting" for the Reader by showing how the character in question _differs _from the culturally-expected norm (stereotype).



Greimour said:


> What if the man was asexual? Could he honestly  say he is not seeking an attractive potential mate? - OR would he not be  considered '_normal_' (Just curious)



Being asexual is not a normal condition. It's abnormal. Because of that, it can't very well be stereotypical, can it? However, one could make a very interesting narrator/character who was asexual _because_ of that unique distinction.

I'm not trying to imply that one must use stereotypical characters. That's not the point at all. The point is that, as a writer, you use stereotypes when necessary to communicate information that is unnecessarily complex for your the purposes of your work, but you take pains to overtly demonstrate to the Reader when such stereotypes differ in order to make your use of those stereotypes more interesting.

<Example>
A bunch of guys are going bowling. They're driving down the highway, crammed in a car, and yammering about the match they're about to engage in and what they think their chances are. But, unbeknownst to the others on the team, one of them is secretly wearing women's underwear.
<Example Ennd>


No, just a blurb example. But, when did that short narrative get interesting? Get it? I didn't have to describe anything specific for you to paint a picture of a "bunch of guys" going bowling. You probably have your own stereotypical imagery you can successfully use for that. But, the narrative got "interesting" when I pointed out a deviation from your normal, stereotypical, expectations. I needed to describe the guys going bowling as succinctly as possible, just so I could get on to the important bit. So, I used the words "bunch" and "guys" to help paint the imagery when paired with "bowling" and "yammering." I'm relying on your knowledge of not only what these words mean, but the stereotypical activities that surround them in your culture. If we share cultures, I likely have a good idea of the imagery that will be evoked. But, if I don't, I may be leaving too much up to chance and should probably rewrite that with more obvious cues.



> What you (Markonan) said about man having ideals, and then equally that  women have ideals... doesn't it boil down to the same thing?
> With: "As long as it fits the setting" ... isn't that also equal for both genders?



Of course. But, understand, I wasn't writing some sort of "ruleset" or making some statement that was intended as social commentary... I was writing from a stereotypical "Man's" point of view and, as a man, what some of my particular assumptions and behaviors might be. This is about writing, not about discussions of social issues.
*



			Amazonian Women.
		
Click to expand...

*


> As long as it fits the setting, it is fine no  matter how you write them, right? And you don't have to get super  technical and show off all a mans great masculine qualities. You can  literally have "male name" - "referred to as male" and be sufficiently  male for the story. If you wanted an extra, make him strong... or if not  strong, make him chivalrous or noble in some way... or a player who  flirts with women all the time.



Wassa "Amazonian Woman?"  Honestly, I don't know to what you're referring and I find your followup statements equally confusing. Why is that? What's the obvious reason? It's obviously because I don't share the same cultural referents as you do when it comes down to "Amazonian Women."

There are "Amazonian Women" that come from Greek tales and that's the first thing I think of. Then, there's the somewhat derogatory term that refers to a woman who has male-like physiological qualities, typically larger and stronger than most women, sometimes seen as being distinctly unfeminine.

But, in the context of what you're talking about, I simply don't "grok" what you're referring to. However, I think I know what you may intend to mean. As an example, off the top of my head, I'll refer to a character that we normally would call _a "Strong Female Lead."_

The quintessential "Strong Female Lead" in recent film is the character of "Ellen Ripley" from the movie "Alien" and the next couple of serial flicks. And, "Ripley" is the only name that any audience-member hears in the first movie, by the way. This is somewhat similar to your suggesting regarding "Male" names, but in the film, it's reduced to_ equalizing everyone's name,_ which, in fact, acts to _elevate_ a "mere woman's" status to be more equal with the males in that fictional setting than viewers may have originally thought, given cultural biases. In short - It's much better than calling her "Jim." And, "Ripley" is definitely not "Amazonian", a point that the Director made with Ripley's "changing" scene when she was undressed and forced to squeeze into an environmental suit, with plenty of closeups on the screen... Why do that? Obviously, it's to remind the audience that while Ripley is fully capable of giving orders, taking charge, kicking butt and taking names, she's also a "woman" with attractive jangly bits.

There's a host of "Strong Female Leads in Classic and Western Lit, but I suck at referencing those.  Start with "The Canteburry Tales" and work your way forward. I would guess that very few of those Strong Female Leads in those genres would have any overtly "male" qualities. Instead, their "strength" comes from being a "woman" ( a weaker, more frail, more fragile sex )yet managing to be very powerful characters.



> And then I could do the same with women who are more masculine than most men.



I realize that some writers here write for certain genres that I wouldn't normally read or work within. But, outside of those genres, I have to address something with your statement - Writing doesn't have anything to do with "sex." Even Romances don't have anything to do with "sex." Writing purely to deliver a titilating experience does, however, have to do with sex and I don't address that sort of thing.

What's "masculine?" Define it. How is a woman more "masculine" in some ways than "most men?" 

There was a time in human culture that "masculine" and "feminine" had firm definitions. Men hunted, women gathered. Men fought and provided, women cared for and nurtured. Those are very old definitions, likely fifty-thousand years old or more. However, in the past ten-thousand years, things have changed slightly. And, within even the more recent history, let's say three-thousand years or so, these definitions have broadened considerably. Penelope did not just sit around the house and swoon at the first suitor who came to her in absence of Odysseus. She may not have been able to rule, being a woman, but she had the power of "Choice" and, thus, managed to hold on to the throne until Odysseus's final return.

But, she didn't "lift" and didn't repair race-cars in her spare time. In most other respects, she was a stereotypical woman. However, it's _because_ of the shared understanding of such stereotypes (Like Greek women bathing in blood, murdering babies, killing suitors, being repeatedly raped and then committing incest... OH, well, not _those_ stereotypes, at least.  )  that the author is able to raise for us, the Reader, the distinction of Penelope's dogged will and the ultimate hope for her husband's final, glorious and bloody, return...


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## EmmaSohan (May 8, 2014)

In my first book, one of my male characters was an "alpha male" and acted like it. So he was full of typical male traits. But he came out a little flat, and when I thought about it, it seemed like all of my male characters in that book were a little flat. I said "Oh well" and went on to my next book. 


Trying to understand that now, in the light of this interesting discussion, I think the problem was just neglect (plus inexperience). I didn't try to make him interesting. And, I never actually sat down to see the whole story from his point of view.


Aha. In the next book, the males were still flat at the start but they came out interesting by the end of the book. And in that book, I did a few passages from male's point of view (first person, just what they were thinking).

I guess I'm trying to say there might be two problems. One is knowing how to characterize males. The other is caring enough about them to make them seem real instead of flat.


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## Morkonan (May 10, 2014)

EmmaSohan said:


> ...I guess I'm trying to say there might be two problems. One is knowing how to characterize males. The other is caring enough about them to make them seem real instead of flat.



A "Flat" character typically means one that does not change. ("Round" characters are changed in some meaningful way during a story.) In this context, I think you mean that your characters just didn't seem _fully fleshed _or _well developed_. Or, worse, they weren't interesting and the Reader likely didn't _care_ about them.

You know what your image is of a typical male and what that person, since male human beings really are people , is probably like. That image is going to be similar to what other people in your culture believe men are like. If you're from the opposite side of the plumbing connections from a male, then you likely know how women in your culture view men.

That's awesome, actually - You're writing about something you don't have direct knowledge of, but are able to reconstruct effectively enough in order to pull it off in a convincing manner... maybe. But, it may not be that your male characters were "flat", it just may be that you hesitated to develop them as fully as you would a fellow female character, likely because of your lack of confidence in writing male characters.

But, no matter, the problem can easily be solved - Every character, past a few basic physiological principles and cultural imperatives, is the same. In a story, every single character has its role to play and "rounding them out" is _exactly _the same, no matter what sex they are. 

There are several techniques that are commonly used to help develop interesting characters. I'll give you two, to start:

1) Interesting characters have interesting jobs.

Readers love reading about interesting jobs. That doesn't mean that the characters have to have "esoteric" jobs. For instance, they don't have to be surgeons or experimental astronomers... In fact, it's up to you to make the job "interesting" by including esoteric information for that sort of job (As a treat for the Reader) as well as inserting interesting situations in even the most mundane of jobs. 

For instance, I haven't ever run a "mobile restaurant" and have no idea what's involved. But, let's say you have a character that has one of those big vans that they serve food out of at construction sites and large manufacturing plants. OK, so, what's something "esoteric" that not many Readers would know about when it comes down to running such a business. How do those places get their food? Maybe they go every morning to the local market? Maybe their workday starts at 5am? How about "Health Inspections?" How do they get inspected if they're often not at the same location for very long? What about licensing issues? So, you discover these three facts and manage to include them in your story in order to "flesh out" your character's job and to provide the Reader with the treat of having received some interesting information about a unique job. (Think this doesn't work? The wild popularity of the various "CSI" shows and other "Medical Examiner" and "Criminal Investigation" shows would prove differently...)

Next up, under interesting jobs, is to put the "job" in some sort of "interesting situation." It could be a fully developed subplot involving office politics or it could be a situation in which the business license was in danger of being revoked. Whatever the situation, include some sort of subplot that involves the character's job. Readers like that sort of thing.

2) How is your character different from everyone else?

Good stories are not written about boring characters. Walter Mitty led one of the most exciting lives, ever! Here's where "stereotypes" come into play. You know what how a stereotypical "male" is viewed in your culture. I don't mean what their thoughts or internal dialogue is really like. I mean the stereotypical view that your culture has of men. OK, now give your character one attribute that is not "stereotypical." Sometimes, it's best if this one attribute is part of a major story hook. For instance, if your character is normal in every way, except for the fact that he's a werewolf, what do you think you're going to be writing your story about?  But, there are times when it's best that this uniquely different attribute is NOT directly part of a main story hook or plot, but involves a subplot or just impacts how your particular character goes about achieving his goals within the plot. So, what if your character was a werewolf, but was also a _paraplegic_? Or, what if your character was a paraplegic and attempting to protect his family from a werewolf? That wouldn't be as interesting a character if he was just a stereotypical ambulatory male, would it?

These two things are useful for any character development. In fact, using these techniques and others, you don't really have to worry overmuch about whether or not your portrayal of the genotypical, phenotypical or secondary sex characteristics of the character is wholly accurate or credible - Your Reader will be already so interested in your character that they will voluntarily overlook any small issues in favor of continued enjoyment of the character's experiences.


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## EmmaSohan (May 11, 2014)

One part of my book was boring even me, so I changed the female assistant to missing half of her index finger. It turned out that gave her confidence problems. Meanwhile I supersized the male assistant's ego, making him obnoxious to everyone. Just what Morkonan said to do, and it worked good.

But I was following traditional gender characteristics, right? This made things easier for me and the reader. But, at least to me, it helped the characters come alive.


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## Morkonan (May 13, 2014)

EmmaSohan said:


> One part of my book was boring even me, so I changed the female assistant to missing half of her index finger. It turned out that gave her confidence problems. Meanwhile I supersized the male assistant's ego, making him obnoxious to everyone. Just what Morkonan said to do, and it worked good.



Outstanding! There ya go! That's the way to turn a humdrum character into an interesting one without tearing your plot to bits!  (Instead of turning them into a darn vampire with angsty self-identity issues, you went for a much stronger and more easier empathetic "Plain Jane" problem and came out the better for it, in my opinion.

Incidentally, a very good friend of mine in college lost part of his finger in a childhood accident. It _did_ give him confidence issues for much of his life. So, you're right on the money with that assumption. Great job!



> But I was following traditional gender characteristics, right? This made things easier for me and the reader. But, at least to me, it helped the characters come alive.



In the end, nobody gives two hoots about the gender of the protagonist. Even if they are in nontraditional sex relationships, it's often not really an issue, depending on the genre. (People who would be squeamish about such things aren't going to be reading the sorts of genres that delve heavily and graphically into certain sexual practices, anyway.)

What matters is whether or not the character is appealing and interesting for the Reader. If the Reader can empathize with the character and become concerned about whatever their plight is,the character is well-written, no matter if it's a man or a woman. If one has to stick to one side of the sexual divide or the other in order to be better able to focus on those things that make their characters come alive, then that's what one has to do. But, in my opinion, all that matters is the character, themselves. Is it a well-written character? If so, then it doesn't matter what their sexual natures are or aren't - Well-written is well-written.


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