# Hungry for Change



## JosephB (May 30, 2013)

I lost both my folks recently -- and because of all the time spent in hospitals, hospice etc. we really let our diets go -- started eating restaurant and fast food, quick processed foods and heavy casseroles people brought us etc. I also started drinking diet Cokes again.  I thought my change in energy level, especially dips in the afternoon, more difficulty concentrating, trouble sleeping were all due to what I was going through -- but now I'm pretty sure that was only part of it. A few weeks ago, we restarted our organic, fresh food, no processed foods, less meat diet again -- and I could feel the difference in my energy level, sleep and even my mood within days -- and so has my wife. I'd also gained a few pounds -- and they came off quickly.

The catalyst for getting back on track was a documentary I watched on Netflix called _Hungry for Change_. I’d heard bits and pieces of what it was in it over the years, but the presentation was an eye-opener. It’s about how the food industry is geared toward making foods that make you want to eat more, with practically no regard for nutrition. As a result, we’re getting fatter -- and we’re also getting sicker. We’re eating more, but starving ourselves of essential nutrients.  

There’s a bit of hyperbole in the trailer and throughout -- the heroin analogy in the trailer is a bit much -- but the information is straightforward and pretty logical. They don’t come right out and recommend a strictly vegetarian diet – but that’s the implication. And from what I’ve seen and read, that’s a perfectly viable way to eat. Mainly it’s about adopting a whole foods, organic, vegetable based diet and how much better it is for you. And while we still eat some meat -- mostly chicken and fish -- and beef now and again -- I’m pretty much sold on the whole approach. I simply feel better when I eat that way -- and so does my wife. And my kids like what we eat just fine -- and I’m hoping that we’re instilling good eating habits in them too.

Just wondering what other people are thinking about this -- if they’re thinking about their diets or making any kind of change. I’ve purposely tried to keep this neutral and not make it about vegetarian vs. a meat diet or about the ethics of eating animal products -- that would quickly turn into a debate. If there’s any villain here – it’s modern food processing and marketing – it’s kind of hard to dispute that what they’re doing is detrimental to our health.

Thoughts?

[video=youtube;3MvAM97VDE8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MvAM97VDE8[/video]


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## Ariel (May 30, 2013)

I've cut out sugary and carbonated drinks myself.  It's been five months and I don't crave them anymore.  They're too sweet now when I do accidentally get one.  Fella laughed and laughed the other night at the face I made when ingot his root beer instead of m water.  

My next step is cutting out desserts, which is hard because I enjoy baking.  The actual act, not just eating what I make.

It's easier for me to change my life and make it a lasting change if I go one step at a time rather than all at once.


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## Travers (May 30, 2013)

It looks like an interesting watch, but still seems to have that veneer of nonsense that all 'diet' related media has of "the secret no one wants you to know" conspiracy silliness.

But it does mention it advocates a diet based on what we as a species should be eating, which, if you say it implies almost vegetarianism, just isn't true. We have evolved eating meat. Not trying to start a debate on which is better mind, just that that is a fact.

But I may give this a watch, my belly is getting larger by the week!


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## JosephB (May 30, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> It's easier for me to change my life and make it a lasting change if I go one step at a time rather than all at once.



Sounds like a good step. I'm kind of an all-or-nothing type person -- so it's better for me to dive right in. But whatever approach works.



Travers said:


> It looks like an interesting watch, but still  seems to have that veneer of nonsense that all 'diet' related media has  of "the secret no one wants you to know" conspiracy silliness.
> 
> But it does mention it advocates a diet based on what we as a species  should be eating, which, if you say it implies almost vegetarianism,  just isn't true. We have evolved eating meat. Not trying to start a  debate on which is better mind, just that that is a fact.
> 
> But I may give this a watch, my belly is getting larger by the week!



I think it's more about what people don't know -- and who controls most of the information or who can shout the loudest. That's mostly the food companies and the diet industry. And the government is heavily influenced by the food manufactures. They even have a say in what kids eat in school and what they learn about nutrition. So it's not a conspiracy -- that's just the way it is.

I don't really pay attention to the evolution argument -- just to what seems to work. And you can get enough protein not eating meat. A vegetarian diet looks a a lot better if you look at our meat supply and how we raise the animals and process it. And I'm not just talking about how the animals are treated -- but all the added hormones and antibiotics etc. Otherwise, I think it's fine eat meat in moderation -- especially if it's organic.


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## Gargh (May 30, 2013)

I was vegetarian for a long while and unhealthy and then started eating meat again and became absurdly unhealthy. This was mostly due to the sheer amount of ready meal and take out options that were suddenly available to me - (it took a long while for the veggie range to catch up). Now my weight has plateaued at least  because I changed to a balanced diet of mostly veggie stuff with chicken and fish 3/4 times a week. I find I can afford better quality meat this way which has a higher nutritional value. It works well for me. I still have a splurge every now and then when I eat out and have a steak and a coke float - I just like them - but I have the full fat coke. I can't stand the taste and aftershock of 'diet' drinks and I figure at least I know what sugar does to my body and I can work it off. It's a good choice, if you have the choice. Socio-economically it can be difficult sometimes to eat well and that's when I get annoyed with mass food production techniques and advertising.


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## dale (May 30, 2013)

i don't think a vegan vs meat debate is relevant anyway. in my opinion, it's not so much about that, as it is the hormones and other synthetic biologically altering agents now pumped into our meats and fruits/vegetables. i used to make fun of people who bought "organic" groceries. after doing a little research on organizations like monsanto, it kind of caused me to lose my sense of humor on the issue.


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## Pluralized (May 30, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Just wondering what other people are thinking about this



Man - I have nothing but respect for people who consume this horrible American diet, then have the self-discipline to change. It is difficult, particularly if you are part of this ridiculous rat race that glorifies 'busy' to eat healthy. 

We order an organic produce variety box each week from a local co-op and try to eat as little sugar in the home as possible. Unfortunately, I consume a ton of caffeine and sugar when I'm on the road, as well as considerably less healthy food. I have the desire to make the change and a decent amount of self control (lately anyway), but finding non-processed food on the go has proven to be a real challenge. I commend you for making the first step.

Another good one to watch is Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead. It's on the Netflix - more geared toward juice fasting but it's informative and makes you think.


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## Gargh (May 30, 2013)

I've just seen the most depressing thing on the local news. Leicester hospital has bought 'fat suits' so that it can train staff to understand what it is like to be fat and how this affects health/movement. The idea being to improve treatment for the increasing majority. This, in the same week that plans have been proposed to put a cap on the amount of times you can see your NHS doctor within a year - regardless of need.


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## JosephB (May 30, 2013)

dale said:


> i don't think a vegan vs meat debate is relevant anyway. in my opinion, it's not so much about that, as it is the hormones and other synthetic biologically altering agents now pumped into our meats and fruits/vegetables. i used to make fun of people who bought "organic" groceries. after doing a little research on organizations like monsanto, it kind of caused me to lose my sense of humor on the issue.



All that and the processed food that has little nutritional value -- it just makes you fat and crave more.



Pluralized said:


> Man - I have nothing but respect for people  who consume this horrible American diet, then have the self-discipline  to change. It is difficult, particularly if you are part of this  ridiculous rat race that glorifies 'busy' to eat healthy.
> 
> We order an organic produce variety box each week from a local co-op and  try to eat as little sugar in the home as possible. Unfortunately, I  consume a ton of caffeine and sugar when I'm on the road, as well as  considerably less healthy food. I have the desire to make the change and  a decent amount of self control (lately anyway), but finding  non-processed food on the go has proven to be a real challenge. I  commend you for making the first step.
> 
> Another good one to watch is Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead. It's on the  Netflix - more geared toward juice fasting but it's informative and  makes you think.



_Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead_ is next in my cue. I've also watched _Food Matters_ and _Forks over Knives_, which have similar messages.

And we're actually going back to healthier diet -- something my wife started driving a long time ago. We even ate vegetarian for a while -- I just couldn't deal with that. We just got off track because of my folks. So it's not that big of an adjustment for us.



Gargh said:


> I've just seen the most depressing thing on the  local news. Leicester hospital has bought 'fat suits' so that it can  train staff to understand what it is like to be fat and how this affects  health/movement. The idea being to improve treatment for the increasing  majority. This, in the same week that plans have been proposed to put a  cap on the amount of times you can see your NHS doctor within a year -  regardless of need.



That's pretty depressing all right. I was amazed to learn that doctors in the U.S. get almost no training in nutrition -- and there's little or no emphasis on a healthy diet in the healthcare industry. There's just no money in it. So that approach is like locking the barn door after the horses escape.


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## Travers (May 30, 2013)

I've had a documentary called Eat, Fast and Live Longer recommended by a friend. 

I haven't seen it yet myself but it recommends intermittent fasting to a very small level to apparently help, not only with fat, but many disease markers also.

I don't know if you can watch it an the US though, it's a BBC production. I'm sure it must be out there somewhere.


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## IanMGSmith (May 30, 2013)

After quitting 80 cigs a day in 2007 I had to make a complete lifestyle change to survive. Quality survival is all about nutrition, exercise, sleep, healthy mental stimulation and the regular production of dopamines/endorphines/seratonins etc. 

Sounds like a chore but in reality these things interact quite naturally, keeping you active and happy, especially through the twilight years. ref: http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/agingex/agingex.html

I'm not against a bit of meat here and there but like my evolutionary ancestors had to catch and kill to get it, I like to run and exercise as well.

If there are any "natural addicts" (people who don't easily produce "happy chemicals") out there, it helps a lot to get "clean" and to know that fats and sugars are just as addictive as heroine, nicotine and alchohol in terms of the longer fight to freedom. I can say this after years of interaction with recovering addicts, mainly nicotine but many who have also been victims of the others. 

Adding chopped chillies to a salad sandwich is very mildly addictive but can stimulate a desire for that type of meal.

Best wishes on your changes Joe.

Ian


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## JosephB (May 30, 2013)

Thanks -- I actually kept up somewhat with exercising while my folks were sick -- we pretty much just let the diet go. Like I said, it hasn't been that hard getting back into it. But we are putting more of an emphasis on organic food these days. It's more expensive, but if you cut out the prepared foods and limit the dinners out, it's about a wash.


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## IanMGSmith (May 30, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Thanks -- I actually kept up somewhat with exercising while my folks were sick -- we pretty much just let the diet go. Like I said, it hasn't been that hard getting back into it. But we are putting more of an emphasis on organic food these days. It's more expensive, but if you cut out the prepared foods and limit the dinners out, it's about a wash.



...that's great Joe. 

We also like organic stuff and living here in farm country makes it quite easy to get fresh stuff.  

Although I have a bit of meat (whole protein) now and then, it is not chicken grown in horrendous conditions and it is not processed meats, or weeners/hot dogs etc. which cause cancer, especially pancreatic cancer which is like sudden death.


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## alanmt (May 30, 2013)

I'd consider your diet, Joe.  But I'd want some proof that it works.  A shirtless pic ought to suffice.


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## Kevin (May 30, 2013)

alanmt said:


> I'd consider your diet, Joe.  But I'd want some proof that it works.  A shirtless pic ought to suffice.


 Heheheh...


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## TheWritingWriter (May 31, 2013)

My husband & I are beginning our vegan-liquid diet today! We're excited! I'm actually drinking my first one, now! Strawberry, carrot, & zuchini. Enjoying so far!


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## Leyline (May 31, 2013)

It's awesome that it works for you, man -- and I'm glad you found a diet that actually makes you feel better.

But I'm a carnivore. It's not a meal if it's not mostly meat, in my opinion. To be honest, I'm not huge on carbs of any sort -- pasta being the one exception.

I must admit, though, that it's really easy for me to get high quality, fresh organically raised meat: I live in farm country and barter work for fresh poultry, beef and pork (the pork is harder to find due to the simple fact that everyone I know mostly raises chicken and cattle.)

Almost all of the veggies I eat we grew ourselves. We can every year.  I'm a crap gardener, so it was a huge relief when my brother took that over after Dad died. Our fertilizer is given to us freely from a local horse farm and we've never used any form of pesticide. The seeds are heirloom from my childhood.


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## Brock (May 31, 2013)

We are gatherers first, hunters second.  It's really as simple as this.  The western diet is not how human beings are supposed to eat.  We incorporate meat in our diets on a daily basis, often numerous times per day.  We don't have enough sustenance in our diets -- the rice, fruits, vegetables, nuts and leafage.  

Also, sweets taste so good to us because they are instant energy.  Back in the day this was a good thing.  We are hard-wired to seek them out and consume them, but we were never meant to have limitless sweets at our disposal and shovel jelly doughnuts and haagen dazs down our pie-holes every day.  And yes, the processed foods are probably the worst of them all.  

Cancer rates, diabetes, heart disease, morbid obesity and countless other diseases are at all-time highs in the United States.  We are eating ourselves in to a nightmare of a health epidemic.  A family can eat cheaper off McDonald's dollar menu than they can eating healthy food from the grocery store, if there is such a thing anymore.  And the soda... don't get me started.  

As a nation, we are paying dearly for our gluttony, but no one wants any limitations or regulations put on anything.  The government mandated a gradual sodium decrease for the food industry and people began screaming over it... "We want our salt!"  I don't taste a damn bit of difference.  Go across the big pond and the food tastes a bit blander because they don't load everything with salt, but they think it tastes just fine.  

Sorry for the rant, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.  But as a nation we really need to take a hard look at what we are shoving in our food holes and figure out what we are going to do about it.  I'm not innocent either.  I eat like a friggin stoned Grizzly Bear sometimes.


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## Ariel (May 31, 2013)

That was something else I started looking at--sodium.  I love cherry coke zero.  I looked at the percentage of sodium in a can and it scared me.  Diet drinks replace their sugar with sodium.  So, for me, no carbonated drinks made perfect sense. I was drinking a lot of iced tea with no sugar for a while when I went to restaurants but now I order water.  I avoid combo meals and instead get something lighter and of smaller portion.

We have poor soil where I live, it's mostly clay or poisoned from the walnuts. We have vegetables and tomatoes planted in containers on the porch.  My worry is that they'll grow too large.


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## FleshEater (May 31, 2013)

I am like Leyline in that I can easily purchase fresh, locally raised meats.

I lift weights like a fiend. My first concentration is diet, and second is muscle. A veggie only diet isn't in my program. Chicken, beef, fish, eggs, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, fresh veggies and fruits, and pasta are all consumed regularly. Or in other words, complete protein, iron, omega 3, healthy fats, healthy carbs, etc. 

When people consider diets, they usually always leave out complete proteins. This is a huge mistake, and really, it's made worse by documentaries and misinformation on animal bi-products. Dairy, fish, beef, chicken, pork, eggs, any animal product is your only source of complete protein. Eggplant, tofu, soy, nuts, etc. ain't gonna cut it.

EDIT: Concerning the video; no one force feeds anyone. I eat fast food maybe ten times a year, and I'm surrounded by it. It's an emergency food for me. If we're on the road, or the wife is gone, and I'm working on landscaping or something and am to tired to cook, I'll eat fast food.

Cut out soada and fast food and that should be sufficient. I drink maybe three gulps of soda a year...I can't stand it. I pick the healthier option...micro brewed beer.


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## JosephB (May 31, 2013)

TheWritingWriter said:


> My husband & I are beginning our vegan-liquid diet today! We're excited! I'm actually drinking my first one, now! Strawberry, carrot, & zuchini. Enjoying so far!



I'm guessing you mean you're going to supplement your diet by juicing? That's convenient way to consume fruits and vegetables, as long as you know you lose a lot of the fiber content. If you look into it, whether or not juicing all or most of your fruits and veggies is better for you is still up for debate, so it might be better to juice some of your fruits and veggies and eat some whole too. We make a lot of mixed veggie soups in the blender and combine that with chopped veggies -- and all the fiber is retained.



Leyline said:


> It's awesome that it works for you, man -- and  I'm glad you found a diet that actually makes you feel better.
> 
> But I'm a carnivore. It's not a meal if it's not mostly meat, in my  opinion. To be honest, I'm not huge on carbs of any sort -- pasta being  the one exception.
> 
> ...



There is evidence that organic meat has more nutrients -- and of course, leave out the antibiotics and hormones and it's going to be better for you. We'd eat more of it if it was less expensive. I've never been a big meat eater -- I enjoy a steak now and again or a burger -- but it's not something I crave. And if your veggies are organic -- so much the better.



amsawtell said:


> That was something else I started looking  at -- sodium.  I love cherry coke zero.  I looked at the percentage of  sodium in a can and it scared me.  Diet drinks replace their sugar with  sodium.  So, for me, no carbonated drinks made perfect sense. I was  drinking a lot of iced tea with no sugar for a while when I went to  restaurants but now I order water.  I avoid combo meals and instead get  something lighter and of smaller portion.



That's one of the big the problem with processed foods -- tons of sodium. It's virtually impossible to keep the sodium down if you eat them.  I bought non-organic pork chops the other day -- when I got home I looked at the label -- I saw they were "enhanced" -- injected with a solution that was mostly sodium. Unbelievable. And it's much the same with added sugar.



FleshEater said:


> I am like Leyline in that I can easily purchase fresh, locally raised meats.
> 
> I lift weights like a fiend. My first concentration is diet, and second  is muscle. A veggie only diet isn't in my program. Chicken, beef, fish,  eggs, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, fresh veggies and fruits, and  pasta are all consumed regularly. Or in other words, complete protein,  iron, omega 3, healthy fats, healthy carbs, etc. :wink:
> 
> ...



And yet there are amazingly fit and healthy people who don’t eat meat -- I’m not sure how you can explain that. My wife and I ate vegetarian for about a year -- I continued to work out, put on muscle, and at my yearly physical all my numbers were great -- plus my cholesterol and blood pressure was lower. There’s an old guy where I work out -- he’s 77 -- and hasn’t eaten meat in 40 years. He could probably kick my ass. 

I think there’s enough evidence on both sides, both scientific and anecdotal to suggest you can have a healthy nutritious diet either way. Nothing that I’ve seen definitively shows leaving out meat is a “huge mistake.” But whatever works for you.

And of course, no one forces anyone to make bad eating choices. That's not the problem. It's that people aren't educated in good nutrition and they are raised eating the wrong kinds of foods -- plus they're inundated with the wrong kinds of information. Even what they put in school lunches is driven by what the big food manufacturers push. And the healthcare industry pretty much ignores good nutrition. People simply do not know any better. If you do -- fantastic.



Brock said:


> Sorry for the rant, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.  But as a  nation we really need to take a hard look at what we are shoving in our  food holes and figure out what we are going to do about it.  I'm not  innocent either.  I eat like a friggin stoned Grizzly Bear  sometimes.



Yep. As far as I'm concerned, you're preaching to the choir.


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## philistine (May 31, 2013)

I've fell into something of a bad habit recently, too. I've been into the gym and an advocate of solid nutrition for a few years, though once a year or so, I'll lapse and start hitting all the bad stuff, usually correcting it before any semi-permanent damage is done. 

Back on the fizzy drinks, lots of caffeine, smoking, alcohol, chips, chocolate- you name it. No weight gain yet, though my metabolism can only hold out for so long. 

Once you begin to eat well, and get used to eating well, junk holds no power over you anymore. For my second year of college, I didn't have a single chocolate bar, fizzy drink, smoke, fast food meal- nothing, and I felt amazing. Granted, it's harder now, though the same goes.


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## Sam (May 31, 2013)

Putting on muscle by lifting weights is part effort, part diet, and part genetics. There are a variety of workouts out there that purport to give a body-builder massive gains, but the reality is that if the diet isn't at least proportional you could lift weights until the cows come home and still not make any gains. That's where your meat comes in. Chicken, beef, and certain fish are loaded with protein -- and protein is the building block of muscle. You can get protein from vegetables and fruits, but it isn't the same protein that is abundant in meat and -- perhaps most importantly -- it doesn't contain near the same calories. You can't build muscle without consuming at least 2,000 calories a day. Depending on size and weight, some people may need to consume even more than that. There's one guy at a gym I go to who's six foot two and 18 stone and he regularly consumes 5,000+ calories per day. Granted, about 1,500 of that comes from protein shakes and bars, but the rest is mostly from meat. 

Still, the OP wasn't about building muscle. It was about changing diet for a healthier lifestyle -- and I can see the benefit of cutting out some of the meat in your diet. The important thing is that you don't go on one of these Hollywood super diets. It amazes me that no one in the celebrity world has half a brain when it comes to nutrition. When you starve the body of essential nutrients by going on a super diet, you *do not lose fat. *The first thing the body attacks when it needs nutrients is the muscles. It doesn't go after fat until it's depleted as much of your stores of muscle as it can. That's why a lot of celebrities look like stick insects. Their legs and arms look like toothpicks because they starved themselves and their body went after the muscles in the legs (biggest in the body) and arms. It's Nutrition 101.


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## JosephB (May 31, 2013)

philistine said:


> Back on the fizzy drinks, lots of caffeine, smoking, alcohol, chips,  chocolate- you name it. No weight gain yet, though my metabolism can  only hold out for so long.



Wait til you hit around 30. I  used to be able to eat anything and not gain an ounce. I noticed a big  change at around 29 -- and for the last 3 or 4 years, it's been a whole  different ballgame.



Sam said:


> Putting on muscle by lifting weights is part effort, part diet, and part genetics. There are a variety of workouts out there that purport to give a body-builder massive gains, but the reality is that if the diet isn't at least proportional you could lift weights until the cows come home and still not make any gains. That's where your meat comes in.



Maybe if you're talking about lots of muscle. There's a firefighter and former triathlete in this video who hasn't eaten meat most of his life. That's the way he was raised. He's pretty muscular -- not like a body builder though. He can climb up a fire pole using only his arms like it was nothing. Maybe it has something to do with genetics -- but there are just too many examples like this to say that meat is necessary to put on muscle and stay fit. I suppose if you want to look like a body builder -- then you might need to eat meat. I don't see the point -- seems like all that muscle is mostly for show and is otherwise pretty useless.


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## philistine (May 31, 2013)

Sam said:


> Putting on muscle by lifting weights is part effort, part diet, and part genetics.



It's mostly about diet. Diet, as many experts seem to agree on, is approximately 70% of the muscle-building- or weight loss- process. If your diet is wrong, then you'll be making minimal gains. Of course, this is assuming you bust your arse in the gym. Genetics has its part, though it depends mostly on where you started. Some guys can hit the gym for three months and end up with a better physique than a guy who has been going for a year. 

Agree with everything else you said.



JosephB said:


> Wait til you hit around 30. I used to be able to eat anything and not gain an ounce. I noticed a big change at around 29 -- and for the last 3 or 4 years, it's been a whole different ballgame.



I had pretty terrible genetics anyway, considering I was chubby and unhealthy all the way up until I was seventeen or so. I got my act together, learnt about nutrition, and started hitting the gym. If I hadn't done that, my seasonal binges would be hitting me way harder than they are at the moment. As I said though, a metabolism cultivated through a few years of on/off lifting and dieting can only sustain itself for so long, until your body finally starts packing back on the fat again.


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## JosephB (May 31, 2013)

philistine said:


> I had pretty terrible genetics anyway, considering I was chubby and unhealthy all the way up until I was seventeen or so. I got my act together, learnt about nutrition, and started hitting the gym.



I hope you're not working out too much to put on muscle. Pretty sure that outfit is gonna cancel it out.


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## shadowwalker (May 31, 2013)

When I was eating a macro-biotic diet, I lost a lot of weight and definitely felt more energetic. I'd fallen away from that thanks to a relative who moved in and wanted "real food", but now he also wants to get healthy again, so we're working out a balance. And I think that's really the key - balance. I really don't think it's necessary to cut out any food group, although processed foods should be avoided if at all possible. But the key to health is not going overboard - deserts are not going to kill you unless you make them your 'go-to' food. There's nothing wrong with eating red meat if it's not the main course every day. Just like exercise - you don't have to be Jack LaLanne or Tony Horton to be healthy. "Eating a balanced diet" is really what people have forgotten about. Excess of anything just doesn't work out.


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## JosephB (May 31, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> There's nothing wrong with eating red meat if it's not the main course every day.



Nothing wrong nutritionally. And I eat myself. There's also nothing wrong with not eating red meat, or any meat -- if that's your choice. Not everyone's idea of balanced is the same -- and it doesn't have to be.


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## philistine (May 31, 2013)

JosephB said:


> I hope you're not working out too much to put on muscle. Pretty sure that outfit is gonna cancel it out.



You are a pistol, Joseph!

I train for strength now, rather than size (though the latter comes with the former to some degree anyway), whereas in college I just wanted to get huge. Naturally, exploding out of your clothes, sweating from the intense diet and chaffing thighs aren't really much fun.


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## JosephB (May 31, 2013)

philistine said:


> You are a pistol, Joseph!
> 
> I train for strength now, rather than size (though the latter comes with the former to some degree anyway), whereas in college I just wanted to get huge. Naturally, exploding out of your clothes, sweating from the intense diet and chaffing thighs aren't really much fun.



Heh -- I'd be lying if I said looks and vanity don't have something to do with why I work out. And I know my spousal unit appreciates it. But I'm not interested in bulking up for the sake of it either.

And I'm definitly teasing about your attire in the avatar. It's pretty awesome actually. And I am amazingly particular when it comes to what I wear -- and it has something to do with a look I cultivate. I'm the last person to say anything about it.


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## philistine (May 31, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Heh -- I'd be lying if I said looks and vanity don't have something to do with why I work out. And I know my spousal unit appreciates it. But I'm not interested in bulking up for the sake of it either.
> 
> And I'm definitly teasing about your attire in the avatar. It's pretty awesome actually. And I am amazingly particular when it comes to what I wear -- and it has something to do with a look I cultivate. I'm the last person to say anything about it.



I discovered quite suddenly that once you cross over into 'muscle-bound' territory, people tend to see you differently. When I was at my largest, there was a sudden increase in guys giving me all kinds of crap- big man jokes/threats and the like- and being called a meathead/steakhead and whatever else by other people.

A bloke last week said to me, 'the 1920s called- they want their clothes back!' That got a good laugh out of me.


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## shadowwalker (May 31, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Nothing wrong nutritionally. And I eat myself. There's also nothing wrong with not eating red meat, or any meat -- if that's your choice. Not everyone's idea of balanced is the same -- and it doesn't have to be.



I only brought up red meat because there are indications it can lead to cancer - but again, it's a matter of balance. And any life decisions are personal choice. :friendly_wink:


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## Ariel (May 31, 2013)

It seems everything leads to cancer. 

I'm all for changing unhealthy habits for good habits.  But it is hard to stay focused and motivated.


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## Blade (May 31, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> I'm all for changing unhealthy habits for good habits.  But it is hard to stay focused and motivated.


How much of your own cooking do you do? I find it easier to stay focused if I cook a lot as it is just a matter of buying what you think are goodies, taking them home with some vague sort of plan and going from there.

The thing I find with going out or ordering out is that I am suddenly presented with a lot of options which tempt my impulses and tend to upset any semblance of plan.


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## Ariel (May 31, 2013)

My fiancée does the majority of the cooking and I fill in the rest.  The closest grocery stores to my house carry poor produce and meat options while the local price chopper is expensive.


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## Kevin (May 31, 2013)

Perhaps if you had a root cellar...?


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## Ariel (May 31, 2013)

That would probably be our best option.

What I really have trouble with is exercising and sticking with that routine.


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## Kevin (May 31, 2013)

It's so boring unless you find something you really like, like a sport. All our machines ended as coat racks, and then on the curb.


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## Ariel (May 31, 2013)

I have the wii fit and it's fun to an extent.  I think it's more a lack of a support net.  I want Fella to work out with me but it doesn't happen.


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## Deleted member 49710 (May 31, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> I have the wii fit and it's fun to an extent.  I think it's more a lack of a support net.  I want Fella to work out with me but it doesn't happen.


I like running okay, but the best thing for me is fitting exercise into the course of daily life--walking or biking places whenever possible, mainly. I know the feasibility of that depends on where/how you live, but still, if you can do it, biking's great--good exercise, generally pleasant, saves gas.



			
				Kevin said:
			
		

> Perhaps if you had a root cellar...?  :smile:


Actually, root cellar's just one way, but preserving food can make a big difference in the cost of produce, which is important since organics do tend to be more expensive. In summer we like to buy piles of corn and bell pepper and tomatoes and whatever, prep them and freeze them in batches so we'll have them through winter (we have a big freezer for this purpose). Canning is great, like Leyline mentioned, but we don't really know how and the Mr. says that even if he followed instructions to the letter he'd be terrified of poison. We looked into building a root cellar but it seemed like a big project that wouldn't be worth it for us with our small city garden, more for people who grow their own vegetables in large quantities.


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## Brock (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm currently filming a documentary where I consume nothing but Poptarts, PEZ and Monster Energy Drinks for six months.


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## Leyline (Jun 1, 2013)

lasm said:


> Actually, root cellar's just one way, but preserving food can make a big difference in the cost of produce, which is important since organics do tend to be more expensive. In summer we like to buy piles of corn and bell pepper and tomatoes and whatever, prep them and freeze them in batches so we'll have them through winter (we have a big freezer for this purpose). *Canning is great, like Leyline mentioned, but we don't really know how and the Mr. says that even if he followed instructions to the letter he'd be terrified of poison.* We looked into building a root cellar but it seemed like a big project that wouldn't be worth it for us with our small city garden, more for people who grow their own vegetables in large quantities.



Please do not be! Seriously, my Dad initiated me into this craft (and that's exactly what it is) when I was five years old and I've been doing it for 35 years now. In that time, the main thing you discover is that if you mess up it's absolutely obvious within a few days. You don't even have to open it to know -- you can tell by looking at it. And, really, if you follow the very simple hygiene rules it's quite rare that you mess up. The rewards are huge. In _Dandelion Wine_, Bradbury spoke about the glory of opening a bottle of the eponymous stuff in the winter and having a moment of summer, frozen in time, to experience. That's just...true.


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## Blade (Jun 1, 2013)

Brock said:


> I'm currently filming a documentary where I consume nothing but Poptarts, PEZ and Monster Energy Drinks for six months.



You hope to survive that long?:confusion:


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## Morkonan (Jun 2, 2013)

I don't eat...

Well, I do eat, but I don't eat regularly. I never really paid attention to it, but I've since found out that I follow a sort of "Starvation Diet" plan. I suppose it's more properly called a "Starvation Metabolism" or some similar high-sounding gimmicky sort of thing. In brief: I eat once a day and sometimes skip days with little or nothing to eat. Yes, sometimes I feel hungry, but the feeling usually passes. If I've been particularly active, it doesn't pass and that eventually forces me to seek food. As a result, I maintain a fairly consistent body weight and composition. With some seasonal exceptions, I maintain the same clothing sizes as I had in high-school and college. (Though, I'm a little beefier in the shoulders, I think, and some of those old jackets don't fit as well.)

In short, my "diet advice" is: Stop eating more calories per day than your body can use per day. Any "diet" that offers complex regimens, strange supplements, strictly categorized intake regimes, arcane food combinations, mysterious powders, and weird natural extracts is really just a lot of hand-waving mumbo-jumbo being used to avoid the fact that it's Willpower and not Magic that leads to weight loss and a re-sculpting of one's body. There's only one secret and it ain't so secret - Nothing that's easy to obtain is worth very much. (No pain, no gain.)

David, of Michelangelo's David, didn't get that way because he rocked out to P90X and bought all his SuperDuperProtean-Diet Powder from G.N.C. He didn't have "Dancin' to the Oldies" and didn't read all the latest articles in Fitness Magazine. He chased after sheep and slung rocks at Giants until he was boss and then went home.


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## JosephB (Jun 2, 2013)

Leyline said:


> Please do not be! Seriously, my Dad initiated me  into this craft (and that's exactly what it is) when I was five years  old and I've been doing it for 35 years now. In that time, the main  thing you discover is that if you mess up it's absolutely obvious within  a few days. You don't even have to open it to know -- you can tell by  looking at it. And, really, if you follow the very simple hygiene rules  it's quite rare that you mess up. The rewards are huge. In _Dandelion Wine_,  Bradbury spoke about the glory of opening a bottle of the eponymous  stuff in the winter and having a moment of summer, frozen in time, to  experience. That's just...true. :smile:



Yep, my grandma used to “put things up” -- a lot stuff from her own  garden. She used to make and preserve a sweet pepper relish that was  pretty awesome, same with pickles and various fruit preserves. My mom  was on a canning kick when I was little, trying to carry on the  tradition I suppose -- but it didn’t last long. I have a neighbor who  grows tomatoes and puts up fantastic tomato sauce -- we usually get a  few jars every year.



Morkonan said:


> Any "diet" that  offers complex regimens, strange supplements, strictly categorized  intake regimes, arcane food combinations, mysterious powders, and weird  natural extracts is really just a lot of hand-waving mumbo-jumbo being  used to avoid the fact that it's Willpower and not Magic that leads to  weight loss and a re-sculpting of one's body.



In many  cases, overweight people have the will to initiate weight loss, but they  lack the proper education -- and as result, they are susceptible to the  kind of diets you're talking about and the inevitable failure. They  have tried, and tried hard, but they've tried the wrong things --  sometimes over and over. Then on top of that, the belief that they've  failed because they lack willpower leads to a "it's no use, I just can't  do it" attitude and they give up completely. 

The real key to weight  loss is good information, positive thinking and support.  It’s not a  character issue -- and that’s the implication when you make it all about  willpower. And having never dealt with any weight issues, I don't think I'm in a position to simplify things to that extent.

PS -- It may work for you, but I think a lot of nutritionists would label your "Starvation Metabolism" thing as "mumbo-jumbo." Most would agree that your mind and body function optimally when nutrients are replenished throughout the day. From what I've seen, an eat-less-more-often schedule is what most credible nutritionists recommend to lose weight and keep it off.


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