# Do you have to show your characters race? (1 Viewer)



## RyeCatcher24 (Jun 19, 2008)

Hey guys this might seem like an odd question but it's one that I've been asking myself.  I'm black and notice that most black authors tend to make their main characters black as well.  This isn't necessarily limited to black authors as authors of other races tend to make their characters reflect their respective races.

My problem is that I don't really want my character to be representative of any particular race, however, I know that readers like their main characters to be described as it helps them envision and feel for the character more.  

So is it necessary to make the character a particular race, and is it necessary to describe your character all that much?

If anyone can voice their opinion on this it would be greatly appreciated.


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 19, 2008)

If you want to stand up for the minorities, then go ahead.

Otherwise, a reader will always assume the main character is white.


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## Cyric (Jun 19, 2008)

GodofLiterature said:


> If you want to stand up for the minorities, then go ahead.
> 
> Otherwise, a reader will always assume the main character is white.




I wonder why that is?


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## Dancer Preston (Jun 20, 2008)

Cyric said:


> I wonder why that is?


 
Racism is still prevelent, even if it is at the micro level. Americans in particular are taught that white is normal, while everything else is ethnic; as if whiteness does not pertain to an ethnic group. I remember a quote from Mad TV bringing this up and parodying the attitude: "It doesn't matter if your skin is black...or normal." I can go on forever about this; I study sociology in school and critical race theory is at the top of my interests.

Anyway, answering RyeCatcher24's question, I say don't mention race if it is not important to your story or your character's background and personality. Basically, be like Hemingway (God knows I hate that man), be efficient. If it is important, add it.


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## Sam (Jun 20, 2008)

GodofLiterature said:


> a reader will always assume the main character is white.



Where the hell did you pull that from? Where's your proof to back up this statement? How can you speak for the millions of readers out there? For Godsakes, man, don't make statements like this. They make you sound ignorant.


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## Linton Robinson (Jun 20, 2008)

I would say a reader sort of assumes the character is like themselves unless there is some reason not to.

Apart from all the typical "ay, ay, evil American racism" bullshit here,   we tend to assume the race of the character is the default for the setting.   It's in Norway,we kind of figure the character is white, etc.

I am constantly astounded at how deep people will dredge to sound off of petty "ooooo, everybody but me is racist" crap.

Actually I would say that the vast majority of books don't state the race of the main character, though descriptions make it clear in many cases.


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## Tiamat (Jun 20, 2008)

Well, I'm white.  If the character's race isn't specified (and the writer isn't playing on every single racial stereotype), I assume the character's white. 

However, a previous roommate of mine was black and assumed every character she read was black unless otherwise stated.

People tend to imagine what's familiar.  That's all.  So if you don't want to choose a race and become a spokesman for that race, leave it ambiguous.  You'll probably end up with more people being able to relate.  Whites can think the dude's white, blacks can think he's black, and polka dotted monkeys can assume he's a polka dotted monkey.

Everyone's happy.


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## Ben (Jun 20, 2008)

Well, lin and Tiamat covered everything I was going to say.

I wouldn't mention race if it's really not important for the storyline or themes. I can't think of other reason why you would include it.


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## RyeCatcher24 (Jun 20, 2008)

Wow... Thanks for all the responses guys.  You pretty much backed up how I was feeling. I guess I just needed confirmation. I really didn't mean to spark any kind of broad race discussion and I feel that saying "People automatically assume the character is white", would mean all readers are racially biased. That wasn't the point I was trying to make.  I was more alluding to the fact that when I tell people about my stories they tend to think that my character will automatically be black.

I'm really trying for neutral because I want the reader to relate to the character.

Thanks again for the responses


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 20, 2008)

Sam Winchester said:


> Where the hell did you pull that from? Where's your proof to back up this statement? How can you speak for the millions of readers out there? For Godsakes, man, don't make statements like this. They make you sound ignorant.



You are right Sam, absolutist statements are often like that.
If you were to say that many people will assume the character is like themselves if they are invited to associate with his values and actions by the author it would probably be true in the main. This raises two possibilities to me, leaving it that way would allow the readers each to build his own picture, it is perfectly possible to build a convincing picture of some one without ever mentioning race using phraseology like a small, meek, unassuming, small featured man blinking rapidly in the sunlight (or his opposite) so that you appeal to the maximum number of readers. The other possibility I see is leaving it until some twist in the story line allows you to reveal it casually thus getting the maximum dramatic effect out of it. Of course neither of these work if the story has a setting where race is vitally important, like an historical novel set in the deep south, but I don't imagine you would be asking if this were the case. The questions you really want to be asking yourself are "What am I trying to get across?" and "Will this help me do it?" Then you will answer your own question.


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## HarryG (Jun 20, 2008)

This one really got me thinking.  In a normal story, set in a normal place, race is an irrelevance, it shouldn't even be the subject of discussion.


 Should you ever have to refer to it in your story?  I would say not, unless you're using it to make a point.   


 The story of a New York detective, or a detective anywhere, doesn't need to refer to his race, it's an irrelevance.  I suppose I could reluctantly concede that we still haven't progressed to the point where race truly is irrelevant, but we're nearly there, thank God.  It just needs a bit more time and more Obamas and Condies.


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## lisajane (Jun 20, 2008)

I never mention race in my stories, because I've never had a need to. All my characters are automatically white, but that's probably because I'm white, but I'm not being racist or anything about it. I've never honestly thought about the colour of my characters until now.

I wouldn't care if someone thought my characters were black, though. There's more important parts of the story than arguing about race of the characters.


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## kip (Jun 20, 2008)

One of my favorite authors, Haruki Murakami, writes these wonderful stories and novels. The only thing that clues you in that the characters tend to be Japanese is the fact that they tend to have Japanese names. Beyond that, their experiences are universal. 

I think there's often a lot of pressure placed on writers of color to primarily write through characters of color. I don't agree with that, as it's a silly and unnecessary burden. There are more than enough people to write about whatever they want, and no one should feel compelled to insert (or remove) their ethnicities into stories against his or her will.


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## aspiretowrite (Jun 20, 2008)

Describing a person's race is as important in literature is describing whether they are fat or thin, short or tall, blonde, brunette or red head, blue eyed, brown eyed, green eyed, elegant, confident, clumsy, a slouch, athletic, a couch potato, career minded, homemaker, crippled, retarded, a genious, psychopathic, despressed, quiet, loud, compulsive, obssessive, level headed - and on and on. It's all about using word to paint a picture in the reader's mind of what your character is like physically and as a person then applying key attributes of that character to the context of plot to tell your story.

It's all about context.


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## aspiretowrite (Jun 20, 2008)

lisajane said:


> I never mention race in my stories, because I've never had a need to. All my characters are automatically white, but that's probably because I'm white, but I'm not being racist or anything about it. I've never honestly thought about the colour of my characters until now.
> 
> I wouldn't care if someone thought my characters were black, though. There's more important parts of the story than arguing about race of the characters.


 
Geography can determine race as well e.g. In the No.1 Ladies Detective Agency Alexander Mcall Smith (the author) is white but his characters are residents of Botswana in Africa - since no mention is made of their colour we assume they are black. Hope this makes sense and a point - if not my apologies.


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## Non Serviam (Jun 20, 2008)

Ursula Le Guin made excellent use of this in her fantasies.  You don't learn until tens of thousands of words into "A Wizard of Earthsea" that almost everyone is dark-skinned--at which point I suddenly had to re-envisage almost all the characters in the story, because I'd subconsciously and automatically assumed they were white.


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## JosephB (Jun 20, 2008)

Reading isn't a requirement to be a writer, I suppose. But it sure helps. I see a question like this and my impression is, here's someone who doesn't read enough.


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 20, 2008)

Sam Winchester said:


> Where the hell did you pull that from? Where's your proof to back up this statement? How can you speak for the millions of readers out there?


 
Hollywood, media, and, most of all, the history of US.

To be American is to be White.

This is what our founding fathers believed in, and this myth is still being perpetrated today.


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## Remedy (Jun 20, 2008)

GodofLiterature said:


> Hollywood, media, and, most of all, the history of US.
> 
> To be American is to be White.
> 
> This is what our founding fathers believed in, and this myth is still being perpetrated today.


 
You know, it's really rather depressing when someone pulls out this nonsense. Besides being utterly worthless, the myth is only continued by people who believe it (much like all myths, really). 

Anyway, to the OP, I agree with what others have said: it's not a big issue unless you want it to be. Quite a few people will assume the characters to be similar to them or take geographical clues.


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 20, 2008)

You are white.

You know nothing about the plights of the minorities.


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## kip (Jun 20, 2008)

I don't know why more people haven't figured out GoL is the latest reincarnation of TruthTeller.


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## Remedy (Jun 20, 2008)

kip said:


> I don't know why more people haven't figured out GoL is the latest reincarnation of TruthTeller.


 
That simply didn't occur to me. You're most likely correct though. Saves me the need to bother to reply.


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## JosephB (Jun 20, 2008)

> To be American is to be White.



I can see you haven't been to Wall-Mart recently.


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## Linton Robinson (Jun 20, 2008)

> To be American is to be White.



GOTTA be Truth Teller.

Who else could be so straight-faced, drop-dead, balls-to-the-wall stupid?


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 20, 2008)

I believe my history 10 teacher who I quoted word for word.

But she is so goddam beautiful, I'll forgive her.


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## JosephB (Jun 20, 2008)

The post formats, word usage and pure idiocy mirror TT. There can't be two trolls out there this dim.


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## SevenWritez (Jun 20, 2008)

JosephB said:


> The post formats, word usage and pure idiocy mirror TT. There can't be two trolls out there this dim.


 

On a side note, why was TT banned? Did some crazy shit go down? I remember the daily playground ass beat he had to endure from both Mike and Lin, but other than that, I didn't pay much attention. What happened? 

Oh, and to the OP, race isn't important, nor, in my opinion, is a characters looks. Just write the story, let the character grow, and allow the reader to decide for them self who it is they are watching. Any time I see a paragraph describing looks and then going on in to a long ass wind of exposition to describe the characters past, I groan and toss the piece of shit back on to the shelf. 

And dear mother of God I have not been able to write anything coherent for the last fucking month.


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## RyeCatcher24 (Jun 21, 2008)

Thanks again for the responses to my question.

JosephB- It's not that I don't read a lot. I actually read quite a lot.  The question is coming more from a place where I feel that a lot of people around me who read my stories and know I'm black tend to think my characters are automatically black.  Not that I find that particularly bothersome.  What does get on my nerves a little is when I get people to read stories where my main character happens to be white and I get asked "Why is he white?". I don't see why this is a question, when I'm sure that if it was the other way around that kind of question wouldn't get asked.

SevenWritez- I have noticed that your stories have been absent. I hope you get some more good ideas, because I happen to really like your stories.


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 21, 2008)

They are afraid of offending you. That is why, when they read your stories, they will always assume your character is black in fear of offending you. Because if they think your character is _white_, they believe they will be labeled as racists, and be taunted as racists, for thinking your character was white not _black_. Do you understand what I'm saying? It's this deep-seated fear among the white, asian, and hispanic population, that if they offend your race, they will get a beat down and get shot up and die. It's ingrained in our brain and in our society, especially in the media. Do not mess with black people. Or they'll kill you.


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 21, 2008)

And I think there might be a hint of racism, also.

It is all right for a white man to write about a retarded black man, such as the atrocious Green Mile, written by the hack Stephen King, but it is not all right for a black author to write about a retarded white man. 

Now, why is that? 

Because racism still exists in the literary and cinema world. It's just more subtle and sinister, because it's beneath the surface.


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## Cyric (Jun 21, 2008)

GodofLiterature said:


> Do not mess with black people. Or they'll kill you.




So you're saying that all black people are mean and agressive?


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 21, 2008)

In the movies, yes. In the news media, YES.

In the rap videos, definitely YES.

That is how they are protrayed, sadly. Some blacks (note the word: some) actually wants to be viewed as the agressor, the instigator, because the world's best defense is its offense.


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## Cyric (Jun 21, 2008)

GodofLiterature said:


> In the movies, yes.



Racist.



Hoist ye up on the stake, we will!


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## Sam (Jun 21, 2008)

kip said:


> I don't know why more people haven't figured out GoL is the latest reincarnation of TruthTeller.



Can I ask how you know about TT? You joined in June. TT was banned in April, I think. Is he that infamous?


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 21, 2008)

Cyric said:


> Racist.
> 
> !


 
And so are you. :roll:


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## Cyric (Jun 21, 2008)

Sam Winchester said:


> Can I ask how you know about TT? You joined in June. TT was banned in April, I think. Is he that infamous?




Are you kidding? This guy's all over the web! We ALL know about him.


edit: Plus, a lot of people spend a good amount of time browsing this site before they join.

Or at least I did.


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## Sam (Jun 21, 2008)

SevenWritez said:


> On a side note, why was TT banned? Did some crazy shit go down? I remember the daily playground ass beat he had to endure from both Mike and Lin, but other than that, I didn't pay much attention. What happened?



What daily playground ass beat from Mike and Lin? I think TT got banned because he pissed off one too many people. He never contributed anything practical, and it just seemed he was here to see if he could get a rise out of everyone. I don't remember Mike or Lin ever picking on him unless he deserved it. And most of the time he did - TT was about as bright as a basement at night-time.


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## HarryG (Jun 21, 2008)

I've had the extreme pleasure during my short lifetime to see less and less racism.  My experience is based mainly on London, a racial melting pot if ever there was one.   


 This is a true story, like all of my other stories, no, most of my other stories, from not so many years ago.


 The boss walked into the office one morning and said, “I've got good news and bad news.  A police officer was killed in a car crash this morning.”


 “He was black.”


 Some people laughed.  I can't remember if I was one of them.


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## Strotha (Jun 21, 2008)

...


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## Linton Robinson (Jun 21, 2008)

> In the movies, yes. In the news media, YES.
> 
> In the rap videos, definitely YES.



How about...

In prison?

In the 'hood?



A stupid dickhead by any other name.....


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## JosephB (Jun 21, 2008)

> The question is coming more from a place where I feel that a lot of people around me who read my stories and know I'm black tend to think my characters are automatically black.


  Fair enough. I'd just say consider your wider audience. 

If you do read a lot, then also consider how race is handled in the books you've read and liked. Likely the race of the character doesn't come into play unless it's important to the story. 

People will make assumptions about the race of a character, but there's a chance that in trying to head that off at the pass, you'll just draw more attention to it.

Why do I make the statement about reading enough? Yes, a bit cynical on my part. Because often the answers to some of these questions (How much description should I use? Should I name my chapters? etc.) can be found just by picking up a book or two.


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## kip (Jun 21, 2008)

Sam Winchester said:


> Can I ask how you know about TT? You joined in June. TT was banned in April, I think. Is he that infamous?



LOL. I've been reading this site for a while (or at least the T&A forum). It's like watching a sitcom with recurring characters. :^)


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## Alex Kostin (Jun 21, 2008)

You should mention if you're character is black/filipino/alien. If he's white, it's not necessary. Just don't do any racist remarks.


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## SevenWritez (Jun 21, 2008)

Sam Winchester said:


> What daily playground ass beat from Mike and Lin? I think TT got banned because he pissed off one too many people. He never contributed anything practical, and it just seemed he was here to see if he could get a rise out of everyone. I don't remember Mike or Lin ever picking on him unless he deserved it. And most of the time he did - TT was about as bright as a basement at night-time.


 
As mentioned, I didn't pay much attention to him, as the majority of threads he seemed to dwell in were topics that didn't interest me. However, when I came across a post by him, soon after I'd see a snide reply shot by either Mike or Lin. I guess 'ass beat' was the wrong choice of diction to go with it, but hey, that's how I viewed it.

To Rye Catcher: Thanks for enjoying the stories, but after two years of brooding and disjointed stories that relate to it, I've decided to start my novel. I may or may not post an excerpt of it some time down the road, but I doubt it. My short stories are more or less five to ten minute first drafts that I finish and then post right after, curious to see if anyone likes them or not. The novel on the other hand takes about half an hour to show one page I approve of (I don't believe in the whole 'it's just a first draft' mindset. I say give it everything you've got, complete it, go back, give it everything you've got again). I've been slaving over it, but I do enjoy the work. So, yeah, the ideas are there, but the attention has been channeled into the larger project. I'm sure I'll post a few more duds, but if so, they won't be coming for awhile.


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## SevenWritez (Jun 21, 2008)

Cyric said:


> Are you kidding? *This guy's all over the web! We ALL know about him.*
> 
> 
> edit: Plus, a lot of people spend a good amount of time browsing this site before they join.
> ...


 
Now I'm interested. Stories, damn it, I NEED STORIES!


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## Sam (Jun 21, 2008)

SevenWritez said:
			
		

> As mentioned, I didn't pay much attention to him, as the majority of threads he seemed to dwell in were topics that didn't interest me. However, when I came across a post by him, soon after I'd see a snide reply shot by either Mike or Lin. I guess 'ass beat' was the wrong choice of diction to go with it, but hey, that's how I viewed it.



I'd wager that's because at that stage, TT had already a reputation for being an ass. However, take a look close at the post and you probably see good reason for the snide reply.


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## SevenWritez (Jun 21, 2008)

Sam Winchester said:


> I'd wager that's because at that stage, TT had already a reputation for being an ass. However, take a look close at the post and you probably see good reason for the snide reply.


 
Oh, I know of TT's stupidity. I wasn't defending him, just saying I noticed it was either Mike or Lin who usually had to take out the garbage. But whatever, looking at it now, yes, GoL could be Truth. It explains the stupid name.


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## Linton Robinson (Jun 21, 2008)

> You should mention if you're character is black/filipino/alien.



Why?


Something to think about here.   Do you see Walter Mosley or Donald Goines or whoever describing characters by saying..  Oh yeah, he's black?


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## The Backward OX (Jun 22, 2008)

GodofLiterature said:


> If you want to stand up for the minorities, then go ahead.
> 
> Otherwise, a reader will always assume the main character is white.


Flawed reasoning. 

If this were so, I'd be seeing Charlie Chan on the pages of every book I read.


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## The Backward OX (Jun 22, 2008)

> Actually I would say that the vast majority of books don't state the race of the main character, though descriptions make it clear in many cases.


 
If the main character was hung like a stallion . . . . . .


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## The Backward OX (Jun 22, 2008)

Sam Winchester said:


> Can I ask how you know about TT? You joined in June. TT was banned in April, I think. Is he that infamous?


There is such a thing as a Search facility on this site.

_Duuuuuuh_. _Oi nivver tort o' dat_.


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## GodofLiterature (Jun 22, 2008)

The Backward OX said:


> Flawed reasoning.
> 
> If this were so, I'd be seeing Charlie Chan on the pages of every book I read.


 
We've been brainwashed to believe white is superior--that being white is a better race--all throughout history. Go ask the Native Americans living on reservation, the Inuits, Blacks, the Mexicans, the Irish, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Korean, and whatever the fuck nationality immigrating to the U.S. Who do you think we emulate? Why do you think we're forced to learn the white man's tongue, this so called English language? Why is it so hard to accept it? Why do you deny it? Even your president or prime minister apologized for the atrocities commited against the aboriginals living in Australia. You guys could blow away, literally slaughter tens and thousand of men, women, and children just for encroaching upon your "land," stealing your food. 

So what do you expect? Listen to the minorities. I am a minority. When I read a book--all the characters are white. Why? Because the _writer_ is _white_. There is probably more white writers than there are of ethnic colors. Why? Because the English language is a white man's tongue. We've been brainwashed. A white person is the hero in the movies and cinema. A white person is far better of suceeding in life than a black, hispanic, Asian person: they make more money even on the same socioeconomic skill or labor. If the writer was Afghan or black, I would assume all his characters are Afghan or black, because we're giving him the benefit of the doubt. This "Asian" "Hispanic" "Black" writer made it in the industry, they broke the system created by white people. On the same token, the brainwashing is so bad, I don't want to fucking read any stories about an Asian, Black, or Hispanic. I just want stories written by white people, narrators replete with white characters. The brainwashing is so bad I find ethnic writing distasteful and boring, and shy away from Hispanic, Asian, Black writers, seeking only "whiteness." Why? Because I was raised in a culture that insinuates being white is better. An Asian man can not write as well, or good enough, as a White man. Or they can't speak properly or have thick accent. This is what I hear, constantly, in the media. It's not flawed reasoning... it's _brainwashing_. Do you understand, OX?


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## The Backward OX (Jun 22, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *GodofLiterature*
> 
> 
> _Do you understand, OX?_


I suppose I can understand where you’re coming from.

Your reasoning skills are abysmally bad; it _is _difficult for you to grasp an abstruse concept. But you were born that way.

Whatever, I guess I work with what I’ve got; I’ll attempt to explain it in a different fashion:

Compared to the oriental, whitey is a minority.

And as a consequence of this fact, when you say _“If you want to stand up for the minorities, then go ahead.”,_ it is proper to single out as meaningless your remark “_Otherwise, a reader will always assume the main character is white.”_











(An angel sat on my right shoulder and told me to delete the remark I had posted down here, as being in poor taste. So I did.)


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## Linton Robinson (Jun 23, 2008)

> I suppose I can understand where you’re coming from.



Then you might want to check into a clinic.

By the way, the guy is lying about being a minority.  It's part of TT's new secret identity.

Notice he still thinks his immediate environment is "the world" and he is "we".

And still rattles off the undigested lefty boiler plate.


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## Zyphial (Jun 23, 2008)

I can't offer any statistics, but I'm predisposed to assume a character whose race is undeclared is defined by the role they fill.  That's just because I tend to see far more white characters on television and in films, as little of either that I watch, and so I've fallen somewhat into the pitfall of completely unfounded racial stereotyping, at least in the media.  Essentially most characters I read about seem like white middle class Americans at first, unless they're stated otherwise or speak with a recognizable accent.  In my defense, quite more often than not, these characters turn out to be white middle class Americans.  Race is often times - in my experience - reserved for stereotyping even in books.  Sad state of affairs, isn't it?

A lot of assumptions about character race will probably be made in this way.  I can't speak for anyone but myself, as I'm not a mind reader, but I can offer my personal experience.


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## Nataanii (Jun 23, 2008)

*Well....*



GodofLiterature said:


> If you want to stand up for the minorities, then go ahead.
> 
> Otherwise, a reader will always assume the main character is white.


 
I do not think that is true, unless the reader is a complete racist, but yes you should let the reader know what race the character is---IF it's prevalent to your story, then yeah you should. I think, but it's the way you do it. Like in my romance novel, (where it is definetly necessary to provide the races of my characters) one of my main character's is black while her love interest is white, but to describe those facts I put something like: 
"Bill (the white male character in my story) looked at Isabella (the black female character in my story) and was amazed at her silky brown soft skin. He could've cared less that she was an African American, he still wanted her because of her incredible beauty." 

See? Now common sense would tell the reader what race Isabella is.....she's a black girl...unless you know a white girl with brown skin? (lol)
When you put your character's race, you should do it in a describing way. Not just come out and say: African American Jennifer Brandon..." 
Do it by describing what she/he looked liked: His/her brown soft skin or his/her bright blue eyes and sun bleached blond hair, etc. that way, common sense would tell the reader what race your character is without you having to spell it out for them like they're dumb. That's just my take on it. Also to back up that I'm right, read a film script....they never come out and say: "white male Robert walked into..." they describe the character's race by describing what that character looked like, describing their outside features. Again that's just my take.


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## Linton Robinson (Jun 23, 2008)

> I do not think that is true, unless the reader is a complete racist



WHY would that make somebody a racist?????

You read a book, you get a picture of the character, don't you?

Does that mental figure have a color?????

Is that image of somebody of your own race?   

Does that make you a fucking RACIST?????????????????

Get a handle.


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## seigfried007 (Jun 23, 2008)

It doesn't make anyone racist. Everyone reads with some generic image on the characters until the author steps in and says 'btw, you're image is wrong.'. Most people have a character looking something like them or what they would like to look like at first. Nothing wrong or racist about it. 

The image changes based on what a person does and says and any additives the author throws into the mix. 

Some readers don't like to be told they're wrong late in the book so stating the race, age, gender and features of a person later isn't a good idea usually. It's not racist so much as it's a rude surprise. Like telling them on page 300 that the sky isn't blue on this world or that the MC is missing a limb or three. It's not relevant necessarily but it throws the reader out of their comfy interpretation of the world.

However, if you state early on that the Mc is a fire-point Siamese, we won't be so surprised when he plops down and starts licking himself.


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## Nataanii (Jun 23, 2008)

damn i was joking people...christ grow some balls for humor.... lol


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## Vorrec (Oct 9, 2010)

If you read a story with an ethnic main character in a Western setting, would you have a different reaction to the character? At all? I'm just curious, because I'm writing a story with such conditions.


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## ArcThomas (Oct 10, 2010)

initial question**
I say yes,
but fear no


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## Ambrivian (Oct 11, 2010)

I usually make the characters in my own image, red hair, tall, slightly tanned. But I try to mix up the other characters into a multitude of races. When I describe my main characters, I introduce their image slowly as you read the piece, instead of just listed their description at the beginning.


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## Ricky Jalapeno (Oct 11, 2010)

Ummm I'm mexican and all my characters are always white. Mostly because, I don't know, my characters tend to have crazy colored long hair and a dark mexican with pink hair wouldn't look right. It wouldn't even look right with anyone but still. I just think the character will look better if he has white/pale skin. Plus my stories are never set in a real world. So I can't say someone's black or mexican or chinese when those countries don't exist. You know?

Haha I'm going on a rant cuz I haven't slept sorrryyyy peoplez


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## Lamperoux (Oct 12, 2010)

RyeCatcher24 said:


> Hey guys this might seem like an odd question but it's one that I've been asking myself.  I'm black and notice that most black authors tend to make their main characters black as well.  This isn't necessarily limited to black authors as authors of other races tend to make their characters reflect their respective races.
> 
> My problem is that I don't really want my character to be representative of any particular race, however, I know that readers like their main characters to be described as it helps them envision and feel for the character more.
> 
> ...



The willing suspension of disbelief. Look it up. A part of it can be interpreted as such. If i don't describe a character, his/actions form the character in the mind of the reader. It makes the story more meaningful, as well as save you from having to describe every god dam person.


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## Scarlett_156 (Oct 12, 2010)

> I'm mexican and all my characters are always white. Mostly because, I don't know, my characters tend to have crazy colored long hair and a dark mexican with pink hair wouldn't look right. It wouldn't even look right with anyone but still. I just think the character will look better if he has white/pale skin.



LOL! That's pretty funny. 

I'm anglo by appearance, but not by actual genetics, which are somewhat more mixed than shows on the surface. However, for whatever reason, since I was a kid I have been writing about Hispanic/Latin type characters. I have no idea why this is so. I don't write about Hispanic characters exclusively, but many of my main characters turn out to be from that culture. Again, why this is the case I'm not exactly sure. (I'm internet savvy enough to realize that I may get flamed or trolled like hell for the above remarks. That's totally ok with me. I would rather us all be friends, just for the record.)

Anyway, to address the original question:



> Hey guys this might seem like an odd question but it's one that I've been asking myself. I'm black and notice that most black authors tend to make their main characters black as well. This isn't necessarily limited to black authors as authors of other races tend to make their characters reflect their respective races.



It's not an odd question at all.  



> My problem is that I don't really want my character to be representative of any particular race, however, I know that readers like their main characters to be described as it helps them envision and feel for the character more.



Damned if you do and damned if you don't I suppose!  Personally, I don't feel that description of characters' racial attributes is any more necessary to a story than to describe parts of their personal history/culture that are not pertinent to the story.  

If you're writing a story about turn-of-the-century sharecroppers and the dastardly landowners who exploit them, then it's going to be easy for you to give your reader an idea of who exactly is doing the talking--the cultural differences are going to be pretty easy to render in as broad a stroke as your brush will allow.  

However, if you are writing a story about young nightclubbing urbanites in an American city, it's going to be a lot more difficult to introduce the "racial differences" part unless it's somehow key to your narrative.  If you go to a typical popular nightclub in a large city, as I'm sure you already know, you are likely going to find people of may differing cultures and races packed together in one spot--BUT there are not going to be so many differences in clothing, jewelry, speech, etc., etc., etc.

Is it pertinent in such a setting to describe each person's race, or the main character's race, or to introduce the issue of race at all...? 

Only you, the writer, can make that decision!  If your hip young urbanites are all standing in a group talking about going to the after-hours club, then maybe it's not so important to denote each speaker's race, except by some subtle means as noting that someone has a Puerto Rican accent, or that someone's coal-black skin makes him nearly invisible against a black-painted wall--somethin like that! _Tu sabes...?_

If your hip young urbanites get stuck in a crossfire between two rival street gangs:  Well, then, there's going to be more about race in the narrative, as in the US street gangs are most often divided up along racial lines.  Your young urbanites are not gonna be hung up about each others' races, but your gang members are gonna be, if you see what I'm saying.  



> So is it necessary to make the character a particular race, and is it necessary to describe your character all that much?



In my opinion:  No.  If I'm reading something, it's a distraction to me when the author breaks off from the action to go on and on about the appearance of a certain character.  If descriptions are not very brief and concise, I will get bored with your story--that's descriptions of ANYTHING, i.e., hair, clothing, interior settings, cars, music, firearms, animals, and so on.  

Your characters are going to belong to one race or another, unless you are writing a fantasy or sci-fi piece in which you get to make up your own species, races, and so on.  You, being a black person, are just going to know more about the culture you grew up in, that surrounded you from childhood.  As a novice writer, you are going to be more comfortable and eloquent writing about things that are familiar to you--therefore, you will probably write a lot of things in which the main character comes off looking and sounding a lot like you. 

There's nothing wrong with that--you gotta start somewhere.  If your main character is a good imitation of you, then you have to admit that's better than him being a BAD imitation of someone else. 

I hope this helps!


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 12, 2010)

> If you read a story with an ethnic main character in a Western setting, would you have a different reaction to the character? At all? I'm just curious, because I'm writing a story with such conditions.


This was the post that resurrected this thread after a bit over a year, you would probably have got better response by starting a new thread Vorrec, something to consider in future. 
However, firstly what do you mean by "ethnic". The original meaning of the word is something like "coming from the region", but I bet that is not how you intended it. The continual use of the phrase "ethnic minority" to mean people who were born and live locally but have a different racial background from the majority has led to it either meaning someone from a racial minority or someone who is racially different and a  foreigner, almost the opposite of it's original meaning. I shall assume that you are referring to a Negro in the west of America in the late eighteenth early nineteenth century.
 Firstly they were not all that uncommon, many ex slaves joined the Northern army in the civil war. The North was reluctant to use black men to fight white men and used them to put down Indian uprisings, when the cavalry came over the hill they were probably black men with a white officer.
 The other story I have heard is of "The greatest Western hero ever". He was a slave whose owner liberated him and sold up in the South to move to Texas, they bought a ranch and worked it together. Then there was an Indian uprising (Comanche Cheyenne if I remember correctly). It swept across Texas and the Indians took a lot of female and child prisoners with them when they retreated. A black man could move amongst the Indians more freely than a white man and he went on a mission that lasted over a year, during which he secured the freedom of all the prisoners, some he bought back, but some he had to win back in life or death struggles. 
So basically my answer is "Yes, I can accept that easily"; unless, of course you are writing about some one of some other race, but even then why not, never heard of David Carradine?


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## sorenromuno (Oct 12, 2010)

In many cases, I've heard of authors being called racist for not including minorities in their books. But in a truly equal world, the readers shouldn't notice this detail.


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## Scarlett_156 (Oct 14, 2010)

^^ I couldn't agree with you more.  Literary tastes and conventions do tend to follow societal conventions, but there is no reason someone serious about a writing career should feel bound to this or that convention.  Good writing tends to span cultures and outlast popular trends; that being said, a serious writer should probably try to stay aware of whether what he/she is writing is gonna, you know, OFFEND just about everyone who reads it.  It's only a razor's edge sometimes between authenticity and stereotyping.


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## MJ Preston (Oct 14, 2010)

In my novel, the MC is a half breed Indian, most of the supporting characters are white, but this brings me to an opening sequence where I go almost an entire chapter telling the reader about a particular woman and is not until the end that I identify her as black and only then because it ties into the story's dialogue. I generally allow the reader to decide the ethnicity of my characters as the story isn't mine when its in their hands, it's theirs. When it is necessary to the story, identifying the character is a must, but leaving something to the readers imagination is always fun.

PS
Sorry about the lack of pc and the huge run on sentence. I gotta be me.


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## Dark (Oct 23, 2010)

*I never considered this until now.*

In my story my MC is born in Africe so her race will already be inferred at the beginning of the novel. Where she was born and her background is part of the plot. Who she is and her belief system can not be left up to the reader.  Perhaps I will lose some readers because of this one fact.

What bothers me is I never gave any thought to the question posed by the OP. Now I find myself thinking about it.

It's interesting that fantasy authors have many different races in their novels and no one ever ask 'should I include descriptions of these races?' that would be riduculous.

I dont know what to do with the repercussions this thread has generated. 

 Sometimes it is better to keep your head buried in the sand.


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## Scarlett_156 (Oct 23, 2010)

Actually I almost never leave any character's appearance up to the reader's imagination--the person's race or nationality is always mentioned at some point, even if he/she only has a few lines in the story!  It's just that I don't play favorites, or assume that my reader is gonna assume that all my characters are white; if there are four or five speakers in a scene and a couple of them are new, then: 

_"I don't see how this is gonna help anything."  Robert--that tall, surreally skinny white dude with a scraggly blonde goatee--was finally speaking up.  

Mitchell was a reddish-skinned Guatemalan with streaks of gray in his rough black hair, and a gold cap on one incisor.  For some reason, he always smelled like cocoa butter.  I didn't ask why. 

"Then we can drop the other boxes off at... Eddie...? Ed...?"  To my annoyance, Eddie had his eye on a striking Nordic lady with long platinum tresses who was crossing at the light. _​
(etc)

Racial characteristics are important information for your story--it's how you put them in that makes the difference.  If you don't have a lot of familiarity with the cultures of other races, then don't include those cultures or races!  That would definitely be a mistake.


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## LWilliam (Oct 24, 2010)

As much as I agree with Olly's point that the issue of this thread might be better served through a new thread, I'm adding my 2¢ worth here only because I'm not sure how much more can be added to those (mostly) well-thought-out and forthright responses already included.

I agree that the racial identity of characters is not necessarily vital to most writings of fiction (allow the reader the pleasure of 'filling in the blanks'); however, in those cases when racial identity is key, if not central, to a plot or subplot, of course, it is necessary, especially when that identity is contrasted to another character's racial identity or another character's _*assumed*_ racial identity.

In the novel that I'm working on (almost) every day, I have only recently introduced a character who is identified as African-American because his race plays an important part in a subplot to the main. The era is around 1932 (in flashback) and treatment of the character by another (assumed to be White) is key to the overall plot and central to the subplot.

Like Scarlet_156 and others, I am composed of several races. DNA analysis, as a result of in-depth genealogical research, shows that I am, in large part, of Anglo-Irish heritage, with equal parts of Native American and African-American thrown in for good measure. My AA features do not show as much as my NA features but I find that elderly African-Americans (usually women) recognize it and Native Americans recognize my NA traits. I've found this thread interesting, not only for the thought-provoking and philosophical input it has generated, but also because it made me realize that at least half of the main characters in my novel are of mixed races - Anglo/Native American and African/Native American. It will be interesting to see if the pattern is repeated in the next novel, already started.


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## JosephB (Oct 24, 2010)

This one's easy for me. I only write about Olympic swimmers and NBA players. Takes all the guesswork out of it.


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## dwellerofthedeep (Oct 25, 2010)

Joseph--you made me laugh--stereotype jokes generally do though.

I took care in my last fantasy novel (one that feature a couple of large empires) to devise a few different ethnicities because without them the world felt incomplete.  I think this was especially important because I didn't have any aliens or standard-style fantasy species.  It added a lot for me to know not only what the characters looked like, but also where their ancestors might have come from prior to the story.


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## MEShammas (Oct 26, 2010)

To the OP--

I actually think this question's answer differs from country to country, in a sense. In the US, where race is given too much value (I think), the race your MC is will probably paint him or her a certain way in the mind of the reader. A white American who is racist will think of a black person less; a black person who resents white people may not sympathize with the MC because he/she is white; etc. However, in other countries that don't have a history where race matters much in the American sense, the answer is different. So keep that in mind.

I tend to think of characters as white when I read, mostly because I am white. Because I'm not originally from the States and don't really give a flying crap about race though, I don't really care much at all what race the character is (unless it is somehow central to the story, as it would be in To Kill A MockingBird, etc.).

If you do want to describe race, you don't have to say it right out. For example, if you say a character has blond hair, then readers will obviously assume they are white. If you say they have skin as dark as chocolate, the reader will know they are probably not white, but are instead something else.

In the end, the world comes down to so much more than how much melanin someone has in his/her/its skin. I don't think describing race is too important; I never do. Other people think differently of course.


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## reyesryanmjaube (Oct 28, 2010)

At some point, mentioning the race is important. Let's look at snow white for example.

Snow White is obviously... WHITE. If so, why did she eat that stray APPLE in the forest. The story did no state that she is starving or something. Plus, she's white! Apples is automatically assumed to be grown in any part of the world especially in the western side which we all know Snow White is from. So having a sudden craving for apples is somehow random.

Now, if she was Asian, then the story would make a bit more sense (I'm Asian BTW) due to obvious reasons. But in the end, it's just a kiddie story but bear in mind that it was (probably) not written by a kid so what we're thinking here is not too far from his knowledge.


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