# Writer's Relief Authors Submission Service - Question



## BryanJ62 (Dec 11, 2014)

*This question might be in the wrong category but, oh well. I'm sure this question has been asked before, I stumbled across it the other day. What do you know about them? I can't see myself paying money for this kind of service but on the other hand I once paid an agency to help me find a job. So I guess it's kind of the same thing in a way.

Here's their site:* http://writersrelief.com/


----------



## dale (Dec 11, 2014)

if i was retarded and had a couple hundred bucks to toss down the toilet? i'd probaby give it a shot.


----------



## T.S.Bowman (Dec 11, 2014)

Nice, dale. Real nice. 

Ya big meanie. LOL


----------



## Sam (Dec 12, 2014)

Never, ever, EVER pay money to a publisher. 

Money always flows to the author. Not the other way around. Get away from them as fast as your cyber-legs can carry you. 

Any 'publishing' company that asks you for money upfront is a scam.


----------



## popsprocket (Dec 12, 2014)

I think these guys are just offering a service that helps you get your query sharp and in front of the types of agents who would consider it.

But I make a point of not paying for things that I can do myself.


----------



## Deafmute (Dec 12, 2014)

to be honest these are the types of things I plan to do when I actually get ready to go to publishing. I am not sure about this specific service, it looks professional enough to not just be a complete scam, but I haven't really looked it over. I am never going to be a professional writer who does nothing else. My income will always come from a normal job. But my hope is that the income I get from working a normal job will give me the ability to search out agents and editors that can help me get my novels published, writing coaches that can tell me what areas I need to work on. Stuff like that seems reasonable. This site claims it will take your work and pair you up with the type of people who would be interested in you work. That seems like a valid service. Now how well they do it, and if that is really that hard to do on your own. That will be the types of questions I will be asking when I actually am ready to start that process


----------



## Morkonan (Dec 12, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *This question might be in the wrong category but, oh well. I'm sure this question has been asked before, I stumbled across it the other day. What do you know about them? I can't see myself paying money for this kind of service but on the other hand I once paid an agency to help me find a job. So I guess it's kind of the same thing in a way.
> 
> Here's their site:* http://writersrelief.com/



I know nothing about them, other than what I read on their front page.

It's friggin stupid.

They're going to match you up with an agent and they're going to match you up with publishers and they're going to send out all your queries and all your submissions? Then, what do you need a darn agent for? What, you're going to hire someone, based on their recommendation, for fifteen percent commission, so they can just sit there and do nothing? They're going to give you a list of suitable publishers and then they're going to spam them every two months if you PAY THEM MORE? Heck, you can annoy editors for free. Don't cost nuthin but a stamp and bad writing...

Pay me $500 USD and I'll sell you last year's copy of Writer's Market. Sound like a deal? 

This site seems more like it's targeted at desperate and frustrated writers, who should be learning to write better and what markets their work is most suitable for rather than just throwing money at the problem...

PS - I get a bit out-of-sorts when I see someone trying to earn a dime by playing on someone else's fears and misfortunes. A writer giving these people good money to do what they are already capable of doing, in the first place, is just plain... not right. None of what they're doing guarantees anyone a darn thing - None of it. I see no "product" that they're selling. What... proof-reading? Go find a graduate English student who is hungry and needs to pay off their student loan, since they obviously can't earn a decent living with a Graduate Degree in English... (Unless they choose to be a writer, which still means they're hungry and need the cash, anyway.) Need an agent? Start combing Writer's Market and several other Agent publications. Need a market? Do you know your genre? If not, stop writing, learn "genre" and start over.

Getting published is hard. Becoming successful is hard. But, just "finding" stuff is friggin easy and there's no reason to pay anyone to do that or to spam editors for you. They don't guarantee a darn thing, so don't guarantee them any money, either.


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 12, 2014)

I can see this being an attractive service to writers who are too busy (or feel too overwhelmed) to research the market on their own. 

Someone who writes and wants to be published, but is too busy with their career/life, too computer illiterate, or too disinterested to learn how to do it on their own.

Me, though, I love researching this stuff, so there isn't much the service would provide that I don't already know.

I also second Mork's suggestion of picking up the _Writer's Market_ (or, if you live in the UK, the _Writers' and Artists' Yearbook_). Tons of useful and applicable information in each annual edition. 

Not to mention all the free information available on the internet. It just takes a little time and effort to learn and understand the publishing side of writing. :encouragement:


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 12, 2014)

On a side note—personally, I'd rather get help from actual literary agents and fiction editors, rather than paying a service where I don't know the credentials of those helping me. For that reason, I prefer the advice on agent blogs (many of them talk constantly about what they look for) and the recommendations of editors from their own interviews and blogs as well.

Literary agent blogs are goldmines of information. I have dozens of them in my bookmarks that I regularly read. I strongly recommend seeking them out.

Janet Reid's Query Shark, for example, is a must-read for anyone involved in the query process (a blog my wife found and studied when querying her own novel). Reid takes actual queries submitted to her and explains everything that's done right (or done wrong) in them. Her blog contains hundreds of these. :encouragement:


----------



## garza (Dec 12, 2014)

*No literary agent who is legitimate asks for money up front.* No one who claims to represent literary agencies and asks for money up front is legitimate. Literary agents take their commission out of what the publisher pays you. The agent only makes money if *you* make money. Any other arrangement is a rip-off.  A legitimate agent will work hard to sell your work because his living depends on selling the works of writers. 

Some people say agents are greedy. Good. The greedier my agent is the harder he will work to find a publisher for what I write. Yon Cassius with his lean and hungry look would probably have made a good literary agent.

You will spend your money in a better way if you send it to the widow in Nigeria who needs your bank account information so she can send you a million dollars. If you send her what she asks for you can at least brag that you have taken part in a world class scam.


----------



## S.T. Ranger (Dec 12, 2014)

Sam said:


> Never, ever, EVER pay money to a publisher.
> 
> Money always flows to the author. Not the other way around. Get away from them as fast as your cyber-legs can carry you.
> 
> Any 'publishing' company that asks you for money upfront is a scam.



I was looking at some publishing companies and saw that they have "package deals," so could you expand a little, for an aspiring writer, on the best way to try to get published? I am assuming it would involve submitting your work to publishers and hoping they like it enough to go forward. Is that correct?


----------



## Bishop (Dec 12, 2014)

Sam said:


> Any 'publishing' company that asks you for money upfront is a scam.





garza said:


> *No literary agent who is legitimate asks for money up front.*



While I'm no expert on, nor much interested in publishing, I know these two statements to be fact.

Similarly, if they worked--and worked well--you would have heard about it long before this and every published author would be touting how they used that website to become rich and famous.


----------



## S.T. Ranger (Dec 12, 2014)

Do "literary agents" charge for their services? Sorry to ask what I am sure sounds like dumb questions, but I would like to know the perspective of those that are writers, rather than just what I might find out from a search of the topic.


----------



## Bishop (Dec 12, 2014)

S.T. Ranger said:


> Do "literary agents" charge for their services? Sorry to ask what I am sure sounds like dumb questions, but I would like to know the perspective of those that are writers, rather than just what I might find out from a search of the topic.



Yes, but only after publication. They make a percentage of the money you make from advances from publishers/royalties/the like, far as I know. No legitimate agent will have you pay them up front.


----------



## TKent (Dec 12, 2014)

I looked at the site and it's more of a professional services offering. They aren't guaranteeing anything, but if you want to spend your time writing and have the money to hire out the job of putting together queries and submissions, then this company does it for a fee. It would be like hiring someone to prepare your manuscript for publishing, you might be able to do it, but don't want to.  So you have to ask yourself, do you want to hire someone for the work and if so, are they the best, most cost-effective way of doing it?  I have someone clean my house every couple of weeks, not because I can't do it, but because I want to spend my time doing something else.


----------



## InstituteMan (Dec 12, 2014)

This particular crew (WritersRelief) and a few other outfits that charge authors money for publishing related services seem like something between a totally legit business and a scam. I wouldn't recommend that anyone pay them money, but assuming they actually perform the tasks you are paying for, some writers might find them worthwhile. A subscription to duotrope is cheaper, mind you, and resources like WritingForums really undercut the value of some paid guide to publishing (that what I have all of you for). Still, I can see how someone _might_ benefit from these outfits if they actually do the work they claim to do. I don't think that benefiting is likely, but it's not inconceivable.


----------



## Kyle R (Dec 12, 2014)

S.T. Ranger said:


> Do "literary agents" charge for their services? Sorry to ask what I am sure sounds like dumb questions, but I would like to know the perspective of those that are writers, rather than just what I might find out from a search of the topic.



A literary agent works much like a real estate agent does: they help you sell your product.

They have contacts and connections in the publishing world that most writers don't.

In exchange, they take a commission (around 15%, give or take) on the sale.

Securing an agent, though, is difficult, as literary agents are notorious for rejecting stories that they don't consider sellable. :encouragement:


----------



## Sam (Dec 12, 2014)

Garza is correct. 

Any way you sugarcoat it, paying money upfront to get a book published is a scam and should be avoided at all costs.


----------



## S.T. Ranger (Dec 12, 2014)

Kyle R said:


> A literary agent works much like a real estate agent does: they help you sell your product.
> 
> They have contacts and connections in the publishing world that most writers don't.
> 
> ...



Any advice on locating one? I have been contacted by a publisher and just from the discussion here and my own gut feeling (and perhaps a particular bias against salesmen) it is looking more like an attempt to simply sell a package without any real concern for the project itself. Kind of like "Make money from home" scams where the only one making money is the one selling the concept, lol.

I think it is a self publishing format where the writer pays for a package and then he gets what he pays for.

Again, any advice is welcome, and how to go about securing a credible literary agent properly would be helpful.

He did say the concept was something "they were looking for," but as I have a natural distrust for salesmen, lol, coupled with the fact that his goal is for me to spend money on one of the package deals, that doesn't mean too much at this point.


----------



## Deafmute (Dec 12, 2014)

See the problem is that getting an agent to pick you up is hard for that very reason. They don't want to do all  that work if your stuff can't get published. So its not nessacarily a walk in the park to get paired with one. This site does all the work of making your submission look professional. Now like people above said with places like writingforums we can get that sort of advice for free, but its still not quite the same. their minimum package is 150 which honestly if it actually works would be well worth the price. Obvious stipulation being "if it works"


----------



## InstituteMan (Dec 12, 2014)

Deafmute said:


> This site does all the work of making your submission look professional. Now like people above said with places like writingforums we can get that sort of advice for free, but its still not quite the same. their minimum package is 150 which honestly if it actually works would be well worth the price. Obvious stipulation being "if it works"



I agree with you there, Deafmute. I don't think this is a scam so much as not likely to work. Of course, some people would say that taking money from people to do something that isn't likely to work IS a scam, but but I tend to reserve that term for the things that can't work under any circumstances. I still wouldn't pay these folks without a personal recommendation from someone I knew and trusted prior to using them. Even then, it would be a close call.


----------



## TKent (Dec 12, 2014)

Bryan, what are you submitting? Novel or Short Stories or both?  Short Stories are pretty easy to submit by using duotrope or submission grinder to find the best publications, then visiting the site and following their instructions. Shorts often don't require anything except a short cover letter, and often not even that depending on the pub.  Draft a short cover letter, workshop it here in the query letters, and give it a go on a story or two and see how hard it is.  

For a novel, I'd also suggest developing a query and workshopping it here and trying your own hand at it before paying someone else.


----------



## hvysmker (Dec 12, 2014)

As others have said here, it sounds like one of those quasi-legal half-scams. The kind that prey on people until too many complaints build up, then change their names and keep on going.

Here's a page from Writer's Digest on them: http://www.writersdigest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74187

Self-publishing is real work.  Anybody that offers to share that effort is sure to be self-serving. Most that offer, for an upfront fee, take their profits from clients' pockets.  

Maybe you can find a non-writer friend with office skills and let them take a percentage of any sales they can whip up?  At least their would be a personal connection and you could continue with your real love, writing.

Email me your manuscript and six, only six, ten-inch pepperoni pizzas every month and I'll be glad to help.  Cheap at the price and a guaranteed entry into a vast rodent market.

Oscar Rat
OscarRat@ripof.com


----------



## Morkonan (Dec 12, 2014)

garza said:


> *...*Yon Cassius with his lean and hungry look would probably have made a good literary agent....



ROFLMAO! Outstanding.


----------



## garza (Dec 12, 2014)

The trick, of course, is to get Cassius to agree to represent you. The first step in accomplishing that is to send him a really well written query letter and a sample of your really good material. If your material is not really good, if, for example it's really crammed with really unneeded -ly adverbs, he'll tell you to go elsewhere. Even if your material is excellent, it may not be the sort of stuff he likes to handle. As Kyle mentioned, good agents have contacts inside publishing houses that few writers have, and the contacts the agent has may be in houses that specialise in certain kinds of material. You may query 20 or 30 agents before you get even a nibble, but once you do make a solid connection with a good agent you will have gone a long way toward getting published.

Don't think about getting an agent until you have material that you know is that best that you can do at this stage in your career, and that material is as good or better than what is already out there. 

Don't fall for these schemes run by people who want you to pay money up front. They usually don't break the law, so what ;you see is a legal way to steal. Don't fall for it.

Work hard at your craft, get connected with a good agent, and ten work harder at your craft to keep your agent supplied with work he can flog in the marketplace.


----------



## BryanJ62 (Dec 13, 2014)

*Thanks everyone. I'm kind of on the fence, to be honest. Mostly though I am leaning on the side where I would never pay for something I can do myself. I just wasn't raised that way. But at the same time some good points were made. A part of me keeps going back to things we pay for on a daily basis without much thought: House cleaning, oil changes, lawn maintenance, etc...Last summer I watched two neighbors approach their lawns in two different ways. One dug out his own lawn, cleaned up the old roots, added new top soil and planted the grass seeds all in one weekend while the other neighbor spent over a $1000 to have it done in a day while he was at work. I wonder if you were to ask the neighbor who did it all himself if the other neighbor was scammed he'd probably say yes. So, in a nutshell, in depends on how you look at it. For me: I finished a novel earlier in the year, I have a great editor who is on this board and we are searching for an agent. I have a lot of confidence and I know in time it will all work out but I will keep this service in mind. I feel any service is a plus if it works and that is the bottom line - If It Works. *


----------



## tepelus (Dec 13, 2014)

Writer Beware wrote a blog post about literary "middlemen" a while back.


----------



## garza (Dec 13, 2014)

BryanJ62 - I'm 74 years old. I've been involved with publishers and agents and printers and con men for 60 years. Anyone who wants money up front to help get your work published is not a legitimate part of the publishing world. If you want someone to line edit and format your work to fit a publisher's guidelines and you don't want to do it yourself, a local high school or community college English teacher or an experienced secretary in a local business can do the job and charge you much less money. She can also help you prepare query letters to send to agents, one at a time, until you find one who will talk with you. If an agent writes back and says he charges x number of dollars as a fee for reading your manuscript, cross him off your list and move on.

The system is really very simple. When an agent agrees to represent you, he starts looking for a buyer among the publishers he knows would be interested in the kind of writing you do. He negotiates a contract, something you DO NOT want to try to do yourself. As the publisher sends advances and later royalties, the agent takes his commission, usually 15 percent, and you get the rest. You don't send money to anybody. It's important to note that the agent only gets money when a sale is made and you get money. Don't listen to the siren songs sung by widows in Nigeria or con men in New York. 

If your work is marketable, you will eventually find an agent to represent you. Once you find a good agent, you can stop worrying about details and put all you attention on writing.

Of course anyone who is determined to get rid of spare cash can always flush it down a toilet. The effect on your writing career will be the same, but you'll be out your beer money.


----------



## Morkonan (Dec 14, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *...I feel any service is a plus if it works and that is the bottom line - If It Works. *



The problem is, you have no idea if the service is going to work and you're going to be paying for it, whether it works or not: They have _no_ obligation to be successful.

Whenever you read a contract, pay very close attention to "performance clauses." What will they do? What are their obligations to "perform" in recognition of payment? You are not paying based on contingency with this sort of service. You pay up-front, whether or not your work is eventually published. In fact, they only "promise" to do what you can already do, yourself.

This service doesn't promise to landscape your yard. This service promises to give you a list of landscapers or, if you pay them more, they'll call the landscaper for you and ask if they'd be willing to landscape your yard. In the meantime, they'll look over your yard and tell you whether or not they agree that it needs to be landscaped.

Paying that money has nothing to do with getting your yard landscaped.

If you want the sort of ancillary services that service provides, find an agent. At the very least, you can go to your local college and find a English graduate student and pay them a few bucks to proof your manuscript. If you need professional editing and critique, find an English lit professor or someone in an MFA program to look over it for you. You could even find such services online. I've seen people offer to do this on sites like https://www.fiverr.com/ for five bucks.

"Could" that service give you a final result that ends up with your work being published. Sure, it could happen. Your yard could even landscape itself and, given enough time, it is guaranteed to happen. (It may take it longer than the lifetime of the universe for it to get just like you want it, though.) However, you could also get your work published, yourself, or find representation with an agent, yourself, and get your work edited or proofed, yourself.

If you want to use it, go ahead. But, just don't have any expectations of service other than what they state on their website - That's _all_ that they do. Read it over, carefully. For what they're offering to do for the money you're paying, it's not a great deal and it isn't targeted at getting your work published.


----------



## bazz cargo (Dec 14, 2014)

'Nothing succeeds like success.' 

I have had a short story published in this... 
Another in this...
An essay in this...

I have a manuscript that will sell for a gazzillion bucks, are you interested?

Once  you have a track record to point to you will gain the attention of a  very busy and disillusioned agent. How many times did the Beatles get  bounced? And J. K. Rowling? 50 Shades didn't get picked up until it had  sold a bucket load through self publishing. 

It would be great if these writer's Relief guys did have a short-cut to the top of the slush-pile (Or eslush-pile) but they feel like the close cousin of the PPI cold callers.

It is your money
Good luck
BC


----------



## garza (Dec 14, 2014)

That's why I said earlier that a writer may send query letters to 20, 30, or more agents before getting a positive response. 'Never,' in the words of WC, 'give up.'

He who would his writing sell
must endure rejection hell.

Or do what I did and slip in the back door. That only works for snot-nosed kids with an attitude and a connection with local publishers who can set the ball rolling.


----------

