# Seeking Balance



## Arrow (Oct 9, 2013)

My current WiP is a fantasy work, and as in that line, there is magic.  I have limits that reflect the physics of the world, but what I am missing, and having the hardest time coming up with is a personal cost to using magic.

There are limits to what you can and can't do with the magic.  There is even an effect on the land where magic is used heavily that is discovered late, and becomes a major plot point.  But I need a personal cost to using magic, something that effects the user.  For example, in the world where magic is real and abundant, magic started to be used in agriculture to make the crops grow larger and faster.  In the world of life, where there is no magic (they are kind of on plains, reflecting each other) the areas where the magic is used in that world, the crops no longer grow, whole villages being forced to move or starve.  Yet I haven't been able to pin down a personal cost.  It isn't something that kills the user, even slowly over time, as the Emperor is over or nearly 1,000 years old.

My brain is stuck.  Any ideas?  I will love you forever, and make cookies!


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## Pidgeon84 (Oct 9, 2013)

Maybe this user has loved ones? You could put their lives or health at risk. Maybe the end famine brings on pestilence? Is he immortal? I'm kind of assuming as he is over 1,000. He could lose that. Or he could be exiled from his town/tribe.  He's put into slavery by some sort of higher power or has some great debt to pay off. This is all I can come up with at the moment.


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## Gavrushka (Oct 9, 2013)

Magic could be as a well of power within the wielder. - Trivial magic may have no physical cost, but more taxing usage could leave the user physically drained, perhaps even temporarily incapacitated. - There could be physical manifestations such as deformity if an extreme amount of magic, on the limit of their ability, is used. - If the user exceeded that which they could naturally do, then it could lead to ageing, leaving them comatose and possibly lose their ability to perform any magic in the short term / permanently.

Perhaps the magic is granted from a divine being, and they are either held to account in this life, or the next - Maybe they have to perform tasks in exchange for their continued access to magic.


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## eggo (Oct 9, 2013)

> Magic could be as a well of power within the wielder. - Trivial magic may have no physical cost, but more taxing usage could leave the user physically drained, perhaps even temporarily incapacitated.



Good idea. Perhaps it slowly turns sections of their body to stone. Or how about maybe they lose their hair or  fingers and toes. Maybe each magic user loses a sense little by little...smell, sight or hearing.


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## Nickleby (Oct 9, 2013)

It seems to me that your whole point is the disconnect between the cost to the individual and the cost to society. So there shouldn't be any cost for the original spell caster, only benefit. Magic comes from the earth, but it's a nonrenewable resource, or it renews at a much slower rate than they're using it.

If there has to be a cost, make magic addictive. The more spells you cast, the more you have to cast to keep your abilities. Every century or so you have to go cold turkey, set your dial back to zero, and start over, with the bonus of rejuvenation. And every so often someone refuses to give it up--he can't stop, he becomes a magical blowtorch and burns out.

Another possibility might be called the Law of Conservation of Mana. When you add magic to improve plants in one spot, you take magic from another spot and blight the plants there. The spots aren't necessarily adjacent, so the connection isn't immediately apparent.


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## The Tourist (Oct 9, 2013)

You might try to find an older "Outer Limits" (I think it was that series) segment on a man who healed with a magic glove.

He would don the glove, come out onto the stage, and starting touching the sick, who immediately got better.  Throughout the evening the glove got bloodier and more ulcerated.

Then he would run out the back of the theater, find a homeless derelict, and touch him with the glove.  Instantly the homeless man died in agony and boils as the glove "cleaned" itself.

The "Twilight Zone" had a similar episode, while not quite as dramatic, using the concept of a sin-eater.


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## Morkonan (Oct 14, 2013)

Arrow said:


> ...My brain is stuck.  Any ideas?  I will love you forever, and make cookies!



Double Chocolate Chunk, please. 

Well, for one, there are all sorts of "Personal Costs" that you can introduce that aren't something that has to be "Spent", each time the magic is used. For instance, the practitioners of magic may be forced to be celibate. This might be a "Guild Rule" if you have some sort of guild, or it may be tied to something quasi-spiritual having to do with sexuality or some such, depending upon your Setting. It could also be very risky for a wizard to "let themself go" in the "heat of a moment", if you catch my meaning... Or, a wizard might be forced to sacrifice something of themselves in order to prove their dedication to the craft in order to "accept" the magic. It could be different for each wizard, like one being forced not to speak for his entire life while, another, can never stop talking, lest he lose his magic. (He mumbles in his sleep...) These might also not be "willing" choices, but magical geas's or condition forced upon them by the magic, itself. Body changes as a result of becoming a wizard could be another choice for you. One wizard might be prematurely aged, while another sprouts a third arm... The mutations are as endless as your imaginations and that could be why all wizards wear voluminous robes - To hide their deformities. But, for your purposes, it's necessary for the practitioner to be a "afflicted", yes? You want a "Personal Cost", not a "Sacrifice for Personal Power", right? So, make all of these things "involuntary."

When using magic, if you'd rather go that way, the wizard could slowly lose their sense of self-identity. Or, in other words, they could lose their mind. It could be that each time they use a certain type of magic, they run the risk of losing their mind. Or, it could be that all uses of magic slowly whittle away at the mind of the practitioner. Though, that would make magic-use a bit rare, I'd think. You could have the wizard afflicted with horrible pain any time they use a particular type of magic, if you wished. That way, some magic would be common, other sorts very rare. (Or, financially expensive, if you're having your wizards hire out.) Magic use could be risky in another way - By having unforeseen consequences. In short, each time magic is used, the Universe's Random Number Generator gets a kick in the crotch. Chances are, it could get a bit upset about that and visit untoward consequences on our magic-using friends. Or, just random stuff can happen, somewhere, sometime, like a wizard mending a pot in one city and a pot suddenly exploding, somewhere else, three-thousand miles away. Action -> Reaction.

Magicians could be slaves, thrown in jail, or otherwise persecuted by society. A wizard may not be allowed to own property, ride a horse, eat at the same table as others or bathe in the same pool - It's up to you. Wizards could be hunted, despised, abhorred or slain out of hand, depending on your Setting. In short, you could treat Wizards like the Romans treated Actors - Everyone loves to employ them, but they wouldn't want their daughter to marry one.

In short, in order to plan out what you want, here are some pointers:

1) Unwilling Affliction - This is a dramatic personal cost that you're using to evoke empathy from the Reader. So, it must occur unwillingly to the user.
2) It does not have to be tied with each individual use of magic, but could, instead, be a general condition that must be endured by those who can or do practice magic.
3) Do not leave out Social causes of affliction, such as persecution, imprisonment or social ostracization. These could work quite well, for your purposes.
4) The effects must be negative enough to warrant being considered a personal cost, yet not so negative as to prevent people from using magic. To that end, it may be useful for you to separate out the various "Schools" of magic in your Setting and attributing the personal cost of certain ones as being very steep. It would also be appropriate, for what I believe is your intended use, to have the sorts of magic that is seen as most beneficial to Society, as a whole, incur the most personal cost. A necromancer, for example, would pay almost no personal cost. Well, until he died, that is... But, a healer may be forced to take on the afflictions of his patient, for a time. And, those afflictions could, indeed, kill or maim him. (If you have a school of magic that you want to portray in a socially negative light, this would be the way to do it.)
5) Either the mage must consciously make a known sacrifice by accepting or using magic or they understand they have the potential to become an unwilling victim of that magic. Either is useful, but it's likely that the first is more desirable in your work, just by your description.


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## Arrow (Oct 17, 2013)

Wow, more replies than I thought there would be.  You all have given me a lot to think on.  



> Maybe this user has loved ones? You could put their lives or health at  risk. Maybe the end famine brings on pestilence? Is he immortal? I'm  kind of assuming as he is over 1,000. He could lose that. Or he could be  exiled from his town/tribe.  He's put into slavery by some sort of  higher power or has some great debt to pay off. This is all I can come  up with at the moment.



He is not immortal, and the only person (as far as I know) to live that long.  The Emperor actually dies not to far in, his death comes as an expected, but deeply shocking point.  Problem with him, is I don't know how he lived that long yet.  Even if my hypothetical reader never needs to know how, I want to.



> Magic could be as a well of power within the wielder. - Trivial magic  may have no physical cost, but more taxing usage could leave the user  physically drained, perhaps even temporarily incapacitated. - There  could be physical manifestations such as deformity if an extreme amount  of magic, on the limit of their ability, is used. - If the user exceeded  that which they could naturally do, then it could lead to ageing,  leaving them comatose and possibly lose their ability to perform any  magic in the short term / permanently.
> 
> Perhaps the magic is granted from a divine being, and they are either  held to account in this life, or the next - Maybe they have to perform  tasks in exchange for their continued access to magic.



Physical exertion seems a logical cost, at least as far as simple everyday magic.  The only problem I have with that being the personal cost, is that the society as a whole uses magic for just about everything, from cooking and farming, to fighting wars.  Simple physical exertion seems almost there.



> Good idea. Perhaps it slowly turns sections of their body to stone. Or  how about maybe they lose their hair or  fingers and toes. Maybe each  magic user loses a sense little by little...smell, sight or hearing.



Too many people using magic for this, there would be stone people, maimed people, or blind deaf mutes everywhere!  I like the idea however, so it is getting tucked into a file for possible later adaptation, Thanks!



> If there has to be a cost, make magic addictive. The more spells you  cast, the more you have to cast to keep your abilities. Every century or  so you have to go cold turkey, set your dial back to zero, and start  over, with the bonus of rejuvenation. And every so often someone refuses  to give it up--he can't stop, he becomes a magical blowtorch and burns  out.



That, that might work for my long lived Emperor, since no one else has managed to live as long as him....  I <3 you for this...



> Another possibility might be called the Law of Conservation of Mana.  When you add magic to improve plants in one spot, you take magic from  another spot and blight the plants there. The spots aren't necessarily  adjacent, so the connection isn't immediately apparent.



I knew there was a name for it!  That is exactly what was happening with the use in agriculture, and gives me a good idea about societal costs for other uses!  You deserve extra cookies.



> Then he would run out the back of the theater, find a homeless derelict,  and touch him with the glove.  Instantly the homeless man died in agony  and boils as the glove "cleaned" itself.



.....I am going to have to find this episode and watch it, I like the idea though.  Nearly fits with the societal cost that Nickelby gave me.



> Well, for one, there are all sorts of "Personal Costs" that you can  introduce that aren't something that has to be "Spent", each time the  magic is used. For instance, the practitioners of magic may be forced to  be celibate. This might be a "Guild Rule" if you have some sort of  guild, or it may be tied to something quasi-spiritual having to do with  sexuality or some such, depending upon your Setting. It could also be  very risky for a wizard to "let themself go" in the "heat of a moment",  if you catch my meaning... Or, a wizard might be forced to sacrifice  something of themselves in order to prove their dedication to the craft  in order to "accept" the magic. It could be different for each wizard,  like one being forced not to speak for his entire life while, another,  can never stop talking, lest he lose his magic. (He mumbles in his  sleep...) These might also not be "willing" choices, but magical geas's  or condition forced upon them by the magic, itself. Body changes as a  result of becoming a wizard could be another choice for you. One wizard  might be prematurely aged, while another sprouts a third arm... The  mutations are as endless as your imaginations and that could be why all  wizards wear voluminous robes - To hide their deformities. But, for your  purposes, it's necessary for the practitioner to be a "afflicted", yes?  You want a "Personal Cost", not a "Sacrifice for Personal Power",  right? So, make all of these things "involuntary."



Well, there are no Guilds, well not really, there are Temples.  Each Temple has a patron God, and each has a specialty that they teach.  (OMG, I just realized I havent assigned my MC's temple a specialty!  You guys, you make me think to much!)  So maybe a personal cost, associated with the type they specialize in....



> When using magic, if you'd rather go that way, the wizard could slowly  lose their sense of self-identity. Or, in other words, they could lose  their mind. It could be that each time they use a certain type of magic,  they run the risk of losing their mind. Or, it could be that all uses  of magic slowly whittle away at the mind of the practitioner.



OOooo!  New idea for a story!  Won't work for this one, but Yea!  Into the "I will eventually write this" file.



> Though,  that would make magic-use a bit rare, I'd think. You could have the  wizard afflicted with horrible pain any time they use a particular type  of magic, if you wished. That way, some magic would be common, other  sorts very rare. (Or, financially expensive, if you're having your  wizards hire out.) Magic use could be risky in another way - By having  unforeseen consequences. In short, each time magic is used, the  Universe's Random Number Generator gets a kick in the crotch. Chances  are, it could get a bit upset about that and visit untoward consequences  on our magic-using friends. Or, just random stuff can happen,  somewhere, sometime, like a wizard mending a pot in one city and a pot  suddenly exploding, somewhere else, three-thousand miles away. Action  -> Reaction.



I like the seed of random Chaos that provides..... This can be worked into the societal costs on the poor Lifers..(Lifers are my non magic users)



> Magicians could be slaves, thrown in jail, or otherwise persecuted by  society. A wizard may not be allowed to own property, ride a horse, eat  at the same table as others or bathe in the same pool - It's up to you.  Wizards could be hunted, despised, abhorred or slain out of hand,  depending on your Setting. In short, you could treat Wizards like the  Romans treated Actors - Everyone loves to employ them, but they wouldn't  want their daughter to marry one.



0_o  I can see this for certain types of magic use.  Forcing entire Temples into celibacy, or isolation.



> 1) Unwilling Affliction - This is a dramatic personal cost that you're  using to evoke empathy from the Reader. So, it must occur unwillingly to  the user.
> 2) It does not have to be tied with each individual use of magic, but  could, instead, be a general condition that must be endured by those who  can or do practice magic.
> 3) Do not leave out Social causes of affliction, such as persecution,  imprisonment or social ostracization. These could work quite well, for  your purposes.
> 4) The effects must be negative enough to warrant being considered a  personal cost, yet not so negative as to prevent people from using  magic. To that end, it may be useful for you to separate out the various  "Schools" of magic in your Setting and attributing the personal cost of  certain ones as being very steep. It would also be appropriate, for  what I believe is your intended use, to have the sorts of magic that is  seen as most beneficial to Society, as a whole, incur the most personal  cost. A necromancer, for example, would pay almost no personal cost.  Well, until he died, that is... But, a healer may be forced to take on  the afflictions of his patient, for a time. And, those afflictions  could, indeed, kill or maim him. (If you have a school of magic that you  want to portray in a socially negative light, this would be the way to  do it.)
> 5) Either the mage must consciously make a known sacrifice by accepting  or using magic or they understand they have the potential to become an  unwilling victim of that magic. Either is useful, but it's likely that  the first is more desirable in your work, just by your description.



Keeping this for reminders and use in other areas.


Thank you for the ideas!  Now, who is flying to Alaska to get their cookies?


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## Andyfuji (Oct 17, 2013)

I don't dabble into fantasy too often, so I, personally, don't have many ideas past the ones already mentioned.

I did, however, read an interesting story written by a game developer as an outline of sorts on how to design the magic system of his game.  Not at all suggesting that it's necessarily a good-fit for the work you're writing, but it's worth a read I think, even if only for ideas.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_journey.html


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