# Keeping ideas organized



## Stormcat (Feb 18, 2016)

After a frank discussion in another thread I started, I realized my notes on worldbuilding are all over the place. I've got loads of info on the political/theological developments in this world, but no notes at all on how the common man lives, eats, works, and breathes.

Any advice on how to get my notes together and organized?


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## Sam (Feb 18, 2016)

It's a wacky idea, but you might try _organising _them.


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## Stormcat (Feb 18, 2016)

Sam said:


> It's a wacky idea, but you might try _organising _them.



Spellchecker seems to think I'm in the right.


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## Patrick (Feb 18, 2016)

I don't organise my notes; they simply grow and grow in a file. The novel is where I organise them.

Sam's emphasis was to highlight the operative word, rather than to point out the difference between American and English spelling. You've answered your own question in the op, Stormcat. If you want to organise your notes, simply do so. You just divide the notes into relevant sections, copying and pasting chunks in. Give each one a little heading so you know your characterisation from your mythology.


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## UtopiasCult (Feb 18, 2016)

Really? 

File A - world government
File B - rebels, problems, etc. 
File C - food
File D - animals 
File E - technology

It really is that simple. Save each file under a particular subtitle and just add onto it. If you are using paper / notepads invest in some folders / those little sticky tabs and mark each tab accordingly - write in that section / stick loose paper in that area. 

I get disorganized too, but that's typically when I am trying to juggle two or three jobs / projects / contracts all at the same time.


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## Riis Marshall (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello Stormy

Some suggest _Scrivner_ is a great software for keeping you organized and they swear by it. Others of us, though, either set up a .doc file we call Notes or an Excel spreadsheet. The choice is whatever works for you. Whatever you do, get rid of all the Post-it Notes stuck on the corners of your desk or around the edges of your monitor because these tend to get lost along with the great ideas noted on them.

NOTE: Organize if you're in America and organise - preferred but -ize is okay - if you're in Britain. For Britain English there's a rather complicated rule whether -ise or -ize is preferred according to the root word that I've temporarily forgotten; when I get a little time I'll look it up and come back.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Bishop (Feb 18, 2016)

I use microsoft excel. I have on excel file for my entire universe. First tab is races, second tab places, third tab political powers, fourth tab important dates, fifth tab nations/political powers, sixth tab misc notes. In truth, I hardly use it anymore because so much of it is locked in my brain. My biggest piece of advice is: if you have more words written in your "planning" areas, ie outlines and notes, you're not in need of organization, you simply need to stop planning and start writing.


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## Riis Marshall (Feb 20, 2016)

Hello Folks

As promised, here is a little discussion about the use of -ise and -ize in British English that is bound to raise some hackles (here I reckon we're moving off thread a bit).

According to Gowers and Fowler it has to do with whether the root word was derived from either Greek or Latin. Then it gets even more complicated when the word passed through French before landing on this Sceptred Isle. Actually it got so damned complicated I decided to forget about it except for Gowers' comment that unless you'e fully confident the ending should be -ize, use -ise because you can't go wrong.

But there is another reference I remember reading some time ago that I can't find now. According to this - if I remember it correctly:

1. If the root word cannot stand alone: comprise, circumcise, excise - use -ise.

2. If the root word ends in 's': hypothesis, analysis - use -ise: hypothesise, analyse.

Otherwise: utilize, mesmerize, compartmentalize - use -ize.

I'm glad we've had this little chat.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Cran (Feb 20, 2016)

Riis Marshall said:


> Otherwise: utilize, mesmerize, compartmentalize - use -ize.


I would dearly love to know where this came from, because, apart from utilise coming to the UK via France, and compartmentalise being the accepted UK version of the American bureaucratese (or -eze), mesmerise has been around in English dictionaries and texts for many, many reprints. 

There are only a handful of British words that end in -ize*:


> assize
> Belize
> capsize
> prize
> ...


-*Wikipedia*

_*To which I just added another - maize._


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## Sam (Feb 20, 2016)

Riis Marshall said:


> Hello Folks
> 
> As promised, here is a little discussion about the use of -ise and -ize in British English that is bound to raise some hackles (here I reckon we're moving off thread a bit).
> 
> ...



I'm not sure who told you this, but in UK English the spellings are 'utlilise', 'mesmerise', and 'compartmentalise'. 

We very rarely use the suffix 'ize', as Cran pointed out. 

I think Cran is incorrect on one score, though: compartmentalise isn't the same as bureaucratese (which _is_ an American word) but is a word onto itself that means "divide into categories".


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## Patrick (Feb 20, 2016)

I hate that spell checker is in American English, as it highlights almost every word with the ise suffix in red. I have it turned off on my libre office for when I am doing the serious stuff. There was a time when it was surreptitiously changing them to "ize", as well as making a whole host of other changes. I couldn't possibly turn it back on now because I like to invent new words and use onomatopoeia.


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## Riis Marshall (Feb 20, 2016)

Hello Folks

I wish I could find that reference but it's lost for the moment. If and when I remember it, I'll come back.

This is of particular interest to American ex-pats such as I because when we first come to Britain, in an attempt to think and write 'British', we replace every -ize with an -ise, which is not necessarily correct.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Bloggsworth (Feb 20, 2016)

Alphabetically, by subject, by period, by sex, by any criterium you care to dream up; it merely requires application not procrastination.


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## Cran (Feb 20, 2016)

Sam said:


> I think Cran is incorrect on one score, though: compartmentalise isn't the same as bureaucratese (which _is_ an American word) but is a word onto itself that means "divide into categories".


And who would be most likely to think that compartmentalise is a better way to say categorise, or for that matter, divide? 

Try the online British dictionaries, and see if the examples they give are not American. Note, too, that the word first came into popular use in the '50s.

*Mirriam-Webster's definition -* 


> *compartmentalise*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Cambridge British - 
*


> British
> *"compartmentalize" in British English*
> 
> 
> ...




Search result for *compartmentalise* in the * Oxford Dictionaries *(and the reason why Riis is misled over the whole business, I bet) 



> home
> British & World English
> compartmentalize
> 
> ...


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## Sam (Feb 20, 2016)

Riis Marshall said:


> Hello Folks
> 
> I wish I could find that reference but it's lost for the moment. If and when I remember it, I'll come back.
> 
> This is of particular interest to American ex-pats such as I because when we first come to Britain, in an attempt to think and write 'British', we replace every -ize with an -ise, which is not necessarily correct.



It is correct 99% of the time. 

There are words that are spelt with 'ize' at the end, as Cran pointed out earlier, but they do not contain the suffix '-ize'. Rather, they are merely spelt with a 'ize' at the end. It is not the suffix '-ize', which is a forming verb that means "make or become": for example, 'privatize' means to make something public, private. This suffix is always spelt '-ise' in UK English.   

_Always. _


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## Cran (Feb 20, 2016)

^This. Totally.

This is a fully organised idea.


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## Sam (Feb 20, 2016)

Cran said:


> ^This. Totally.
> 
> This is a fully organised idea.



I'm curious, and pre-emptive apologies for derailing the thread, is the suffix spelt '-ize' or '-ise' in Australian English?


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## MzSnowleopard (Feb 20, 2016)

I'm thinking there's about as many people in Britain bothered by the American spellings as there are vice versa. The two most prolific tiffs are  ' ize / ise ' and ' o / ou ' as in rumor / rumour. I've often wonder what the purpose of this disagreement is- is it just to have something to pick at or are the 2 sides each trying to coerce the other in to using that they're accustomed to?

Just my


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## Cran (Feb 20, 2016)

Sam said:


> I'm curious, and pre-emptive apologies for derailing the thread, is the suffix spelt '-ize' or '-ise' in Australian English?


Officially, Australia follows UK English. But we've only ever been able to buy *color TV*s, and we do find the odd *center *lying around. 



MzSnowleopard said:


> I'm thinking there's about as many people in Britain bothered by the American spellings as there are vice versa. The two most prolific tiffs are  ' ize / ise ' and ' o / ou ' as in rumor / rumour. I've often wonder what the purpose of this disagreement is- is it just to have something to pick at or are the 2 sides each trying to coerce the other in to using that they're accustomed to?
> 
> Just my View attachment 12269


The disagreement? 1828. Noah Webster. 

Before that, both forms were equally recognised (-ized) on both sides of the Atlantic, and that's because the root words came to Britain both via France and via the stronger Latinised (-ized) languages (Italian, Spanish) and settled in as neighbours (-bors) without rancour (-cor).  

After Webster gave the Americans a way to be different, the Brits, who were still a bit miffed about that tea party and Independence business, decided they would then officially take the other way.

Over time, certainly in the twentieth century, when Americans kept turning up in Britain and Europe and telling everyone in writing how they were winning the wars, some of Webster's influence crept back into UK English ... only as options, you understand, for when column space counted ... and we became quite comfortable with programs sitting beside programmes.


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## Kevin (Feb 20, 2016)

I don't get the bother.


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## Phil Istine (Feb 21, 2016)

As ever, I think consistency is the key.  As a Brit, I use -ise.
As for the OP and organising things, I just use well-named folders, sub-folders and files.  However, this may not be enough once the quantities of files and folders grow.  I can see a day coming when I will need a better way.  If I use other software for this, for me it's important that the other software doesn't get in the way too much.


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## Riis Marshall (Feb 21, 2016)

Hello Folks

God, I love the English language and this forum.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Patrick (Feb 21, 2016)

Basically, Americans like to traduce the English language with their pother of u-less colours and Americanized suffixes. 

Less pretentiously, I am not a fan of the changes that come from American English, because they just aren't based on an understanding of the etymology. The English language is very complex and is full of nuance. Consider the different pronunciation of vine and vineyard. Apparently vineyard comes from (Swedish?) wingartum, or something similar, and that's why we pronounce it vin-yard. In my book, you can't just randomly take letters out of words and not lose some of the language's color. 

Look at it; it's absolutely hideous.


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## escorial (Feb 21, 2016)

Patrick said:


> Basically, Americans like to traduce the English language with their pother of u-less colours and Americanized suffixes.
> 
> Less pretentiously, I am not a fan of the changes that come from American English, because they just aren't based on an understanding of the etymology. The English language is very complex and is full of nuance. Consider the different pronunciation of vine and vineyard. Apparently vineyard comes from (Swedish?) wingartum, or something similar, and that's why we pronounce it vin-yard. In my book, you can't just randomly take letters out of words and not lose some of the language's color.
> 
> ...



american english often sets a conversation from a long drawn out affair into something more direct and subtle...to me it's poetic,ruff and so explosive when used from the president down to a down and out....


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## Patrick (Feb 21, 2016)

escorial said:


> american english often sets a conversation from a long drawn out affair into something more direct and subtle...to me it's poetic,ruff and so explosive when used from the president down to a down and out....



Ah, well the style of American English is not a problem. I love the language in Westerns like True Grit, for instance. But I still have no idea why colour becomes color. Although these things are not so important in the grand scheme of things; English English used to use ys where we now use is and so on, and so I am not interested in pedantry. But I do think with the increase in literacy, we should be able to justify our changes to the language based on some kind of reason.


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## Kevin (Feb 21, 2016)

Color - Colour. What are you trying to say? French word, right? Where's your accent? Cuh-looorr, or some such other. Poppycock. Now that's a great word. No airs, no color, just a straightforward pronouncement, as in "Poppycock".


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## escorial (Feb 21, 2016)

Kevin said:


> Color - Colour. What are you trying to say? French word, right? Where's your accent? Cuh-looorr, or some such other. Poppycock. Now that's a great word. No airs, no color, just a straightforward pronouncement, as in "Poppycock".




man for once i think..i know i got what you meant without thinking to much...that's so cool for me.....


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## escorial (Feb 21, 2016)

Patrick said:


> Ah, well the style of American English is not a problem. I love the language in Westerns like True Grit, for instance. But I still have no idea why colour becomes color. Although these things are not so important in the grand scheme of things; English English used to use ys where we now use is and so on, and so I am not interested in pedantry. But I do think with the increase in literacy, we should be able to justify our changes to the language based on some kind of reason.



color and colour a fine example....justify your reason...weird but i get your pov and i don't think you have to justify anything...it just works better on so many levels..


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## Patrick (Feb 21, 2016)

Kevin said:


> Color - Colour. What are you trying to say? French word, right? Where's your accent? Cuh-looorr, or some such other. Poppycock. Now that's a great word. No airs, no color, just a straightforward pronouncement, as in "Poppycock".



Actually, the ou is called a diphthong and it's what gives colour its smooth pronunciation, as opposed to removing the u and having a consonant (r) follow a single vowel (o), which changes the pronunciation to "or", changing the stress of the word to col'or.

In my understanding of English, it's simply wrong.


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## Cran (Feb 21, 2016)

Pronunciation and accent - well, that's a whole other world of cross-Atlantic fun. And then there are the different meanings Americans have for some English words ...


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## ppsage (Feb 21, 2016)

I think the key to organization is need. When you are composing the text, what drives you crazy trying to find something you know is noted somewhere but can't find it? Then the question is, are these things predictable and catagorizable enough that organization would make any difference? Oftentimes I think they are not. Fiction-writing, I think, is often the act of bringing that chaos to order in narrative. The text, after all, is the objective, not the archive of notes. When I find myself with more notes than I can manage, I draw high-lighter boxes around them and reference numbers on the pages and boxes and make an index page. There's probably a digital analog. I also spend time re-familiarizing myself with them and winnowing out surplus. Ruthlessly winnowing out surplus. A lot of times, anything I can't hold in mind is surplus. This may be also the readers' perspective.


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## denmark423 (Feb 24, 2016)

Organizing or planning ideas before you start is way better. Being prepared is to be more effective.


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## ppsage (Feb 24, 2016)

Writing a piece is following a track through the mind (depending on the piece) for days or weeks or years or for (in the case of, as an instance, complex histories) decades. The organization created is the vessel. The mysterious wind propelling the boat is an act of imagination connecting idea to a stream of semantic ideation. Care must be taken not to create a vessel too intimidating for the conjured breezes to move. Much better to frequently rebuild a fragile but tempest-tossed canoe, and come to port with a fleet of light craft, than to be grounded on a ship of excessive draft and never cross the waters at all.


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## Ultraroel (Feb 24, 2016)

I am writing for the first time. 
I realized I have tons of little pieces in my files where I went with an idea that I in the end integrated in the end. 
As I like to have everything in one file. ideas, playful scenario's anythingthat I write, I use colors for everything that I write in my own file. 
Once I've used it, I mark the background and move it to the end of the file. 
This is the first time I am writing, so there is no systematic approach or a proven method as I never did anything of the like. 

It seems to work for me now at the least.


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## H.Brown (Feb 24, 2016)

Hello I use a program called scrivener to keep organised as it holds all my notes and research in the same place as were I'm writing my stories. I find this very helpful as i is easier for me to use. So I would recommend this program to any writer.
Hope this helps.


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## Patrick (Feb 24, 2016)

ppsage said:


> Writing a piece is following a track through the mind (depending on the piece) for days or weeks or years or for (in the case of, as an instance, complex histories) decades. The organization created is the vessel. The mysterious wind propelling the boat is an act of imagination connecting idea to a stream of semantic ideation. Care must be taken not to create a vessel too intimidating for the conjured breezes to move. Much better to frequently rebuild a fragile but tempest-tossed canoe, and come to port with a fleet of light craft, than to be grounded on a ship of excessive draft and never cross the waters at all.



The analogy can be used to show fault wherever one wants. Too much planning and the ship never sets sail, and too little planning and one ends up on the rocks. There really is no problem with planning. The problems are always in the writing.


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## Greimour (Feb 24, 2016)

Too many responses to read them all. (In other words, I am lazy)

My response will probably sound like I am being a douche, but I can't help but wonder if you are overthinking it. How much of the world will be included in your story? Other than Phillip Pullman's _Dark Materials Trilogy_, I can't think of many books where I understood a greater image of the 'whole'. 

Even in Harry Potter, I didn't understand much of the world involved. And I am from the same world, technically. I won't get into that though.

If it's actually important, isn't it simple?

How to:

1. Create a folder titled Notes for [STORY TITLE]
2. Open a document.
3. Title it with the relevant information.
4. Write the relevant notes.
5. Save it in the folder made in step 1.
6. Repeat steps 2-5 based on different notes.

Notes may include:
[Currency and Minerals] - [Politics and Nobles] - [Folklore, Myths and Legends] - [Religions] - [Geography] - [Alchemic Recipes] - [Inventions] - [Laws] - [MC's School Rules] - [Trading] - [Armed Forces]

Breakdown examples:



> [Currency and Minerals]
> Types in ascending value:
> 
> Money
> ...



etc.



> [Alchemic Recipes]
> 
> Tier 1:
> — Potion of Haste
> ...




I just save everything in folders that will later indicate the location. For example, my 'LN' folder represents 'Light Novels'. _Failz_, on the other hand, will often be a collection of deleted scenes or even chapters. Might be the infodump I had at the start of the story. Or the infodump I had in the middle. It might be a backstory to a new character. Perhaps it was a sub-plot that the story didn't need to have included.

Whatever the case, I tend to know where each set of notes is kept.

99.999999% of my writing is done by the seat of my pants. I don't have any intention of using 98% of it, but I keep it all anyway. Sometimes, they serve to inspire on other projects. Sometimes I will steal something from one of them and using it in a new story. Sometimes I just like to browse them and see if any gems are hidden away. 

Other times, the notes serve to remind me of something in the past. Because I often write by the seat of my pants, I don't always have a predetermined name for something. It could be something as simple as a village name, the mayor of a town that gets a mention for some reason or a myriad of other things. So I do have a pretty big list of notes.

Folders within folders within folders of notes. Hahaha.

Example—from desktop.


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## Ultraroel (Feb 24, 2016)

Wow Greimour, Such a nice and structural approach.

I just randomly write, safe and add and hope it will all come together in the end.
To be fair, i've always been bad at keeping notes, agenda's, structures or any of these tools that are supposed to support us. 
Most of the things for my story I am at now are still in my head and some I already put in the file, but generally all is in my head only. 
I know it's not smart.. but to me it all seems extra, unnecessary work


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## Marstouria (Jun 30, 2016)

I use The Novel Factory to organise the various parts of my novel. Not sure it's totally right for keeping notes on worlds, but it has different sections for different things, purpose built for novel writing.


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## shivanib (Jun 30, 2016)

Evernote might be a good tool to organize world building notes, but yeah, I feel ya, not easy at all.


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## ppsage (Jun 30, 2016)

Excerpted from: The History of English (Spelling and Standardization in English: Historical Overview) -- Linguistics/English 395, Spring 2009 -- Prof. Suzanne Kemmer Rice University ------------


> The political independence of the United States in the 1770s led to a push towards identifying distinguishing cultural factors. Language was an obvious way of distinguishing Americans from Britons, since a recognizable set of American pronunciation features had already developed. However, instead of using pronunciation differences to try to develop a separate written standard, Noah Webster wrote a dictionary containing some regional, American-dialect based definitions to set it apart, and also introduced into his dictionary and other writings a set of spellings that put a distinctive stamp on American orthography without changing it too much for mutual intelligibility. In other words, most of the spelling conventions that had solidified in the British standard written form by the early 19th century were maintained by Webster, but he added a few systematic differences: Using -ize instead of -ise for verbs derived from Greek verbs in -izein; eliminating u in the suffix -our (thus moving it away from the French-derived spelling of Middle English to a spelling somewhat more in line with pronunciation on both sides of the Atlantic), the replacement of -re in French loans by -er (centre/center, theatre/theater) and a few other simplications.


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## Ariel (Jun 30, 2016)

I like using excel spreadsheets.  If you really need it to you can always have a link to a specific folder for each section or even have the world building in one workbook.  I love excel and if I could get away with it I would probably write in it.


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