# Bio-terrorism



## Mariner (Jun 12, 2013)

Hello,
I'm currently finding it hard for a biological reason for people to survive a nationwide bioterrorism attack. Only a small but select number of survivors will survive it. But the cause of thier survival needs to have biological reason, not just coincidence. It would have to allow an American to live as well; this is set in the U.K. 
Thanks...


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## escorial (Jun 12, 2013)

you could look  to dna and a particular bloodline.


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## Outiboros (Jun 12, 2013)

Mariner said:


> Hello,
> I'm currently finding it hard for a biological reason for people to survive a nationwide bioterrorism attack. Only a small but select number of survivors will survive it. But the cause of thier survival needs to have biological reason, not just coincidence. It would have to allow an American to live as well; this is set in the U.K.
> Thanks...


Do you have any sort of medical background?
In any case, what you're looking for is the case of immunity. Compare a nation-wide bioterrorist attack to a bacterium colony being assaulted with antibiotics. Most bacteria will die, but a very small number will live due to natural immunity or higher resistance against the drug, and will rebuild the colony.

In a given population, there will always be individuals who will live through the disease. It all depends on the disease itself, and as I doubt you'll be going into microbiological detail or give a clinical description of the symptoms, you've got reasonable flexibility. People will live due to random mutations making them less receptive to the disease, which is the evolutionary way, or through coincidences such as medical conditions interfering with the disease or simply luck and strong fortitude.

There could be other reasons - living away from major population centres, living in an isolated community, having access to resources such as gas masks for aerosol transmittable diseases or their own water source for water-dispersing diseases, and so on.


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## Whisper (Jun 12, 2013)

I think you're making this two hard on yourself. You should read up on a few historical plague outbreaks. Take for example the Plague of Athens (probably Typhoid). Because Athens was under seige a large portion of people were packed together inside the city and yet, not everyone caught the plague and of those that did not everyone died. The Black Death outbreak in the Middle Ages is another example. The death toll was high every time, but again, not everyone that caught the plague died and not everyone caught the plague. I think most that read these types of novels/stories understand this, so you would probably not need to explain in too much detail. Maybe just a small conversation between to survivors telling their story.

Try not to make life too hard on yourself, it's hard enough as it is.


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## Mariner (Jun 12, 2013)

The disease would be an evolved and modified version of MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureu), a disease that eats the flesh. It would have certain phases.
 Stage 1-Minor flesh wounds, they appear to be eaten. 
Stage 2- Flesh wounds grow. Vision becomes impared. Infected person coughs blood.
Stage 3- Flesh wounds become bigger. The infected grows aggression and attacks the uninfected
Stage 4- Flesh wounds become massive abscesses. The infected would now eat the uninfected. Senses would become abnormally improved.
Stage 5- After prolonged exposure (a month or two), Death.

This is not a zombie book. They are still alive.


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## Outiboros (Jun 12, 2013)

Mariner said:


> The disease would be an evolved and modified version of MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureu), a disease that eats the flesh. It would have certain phases.
> Stage 1-Minor flesh wounds, they appear to be eaten.
> Stage 2- Flesh wounds grow. Vision becomes impared. Infected person coughs blood.
> Stage 3- Flesh wounds become bigger. The infected grows aggression and attacks the uninfected
> ...


Dead or not, I'd still file it under zombie books, just as I file Left for Dead under zombie games. Calling them 'infected' doesn't make them less of a zombie. They're feral humans that hunger for flesh.
For zombies, I'd personally go for a parasitical lifeform, fungoid or bacterial, rather than a carnivore. The changes in behaviour would make more sense from a biological perspective.


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## Lyra Laurant (Jun 12, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> People will live due to random mutations making them less receptive to the disease, which is the evolutionary way, or through coincidences such as medical conditions interfering with the disease or simply luck and strong fortitude.



If you change the word "mutation" for "genetic diversity", I can agree with you, but "mutation" is not a good explanation. Mutations don't occur to make people stronger or whatever, they are errors that will most probably not even allow you to be born, because the chances of a mutation interfering in an important protein are too high. Although somatic mutation allows the existence of immune memory cells, we should be carefull with this concept.


I would suggest you reading some basic immunology, although the subject is really complex. There is information enough on Wikipedia about _S. aureaus_ you can use as a reference, and the different diseases caused by that bacteria have different possible solutions.

Let's try thinking about a generic situation involving _S. aureus_.
First of all, you bacterium is Gram-positive and has a capsule. It makes phagocytosis difficult and T cells can't recognize polysaccharide antigens.
It has also a protein which inactivates the IgG (immunoglobulin G) by binding to the Fc region of the antibody. The IgG is the most abundant antibody and do a lot of useful things, but I think we would have to depend on IgM.
There are a lot of mechanisms generating immunoglobulin diversity for each person. You could suppose some people have B cells which produces IgM that can recognize some antigen from the bacterium capsule (B cell's antibodies, like IgM, can recognize polysaccharide antigens), and these people would be the lucky ones. The IgM may cover (opsonize) the bacterium and make phagocytosis easier, and also activate the complementary system, consisted by citocins that (in simple words) are molecules that make a hole in the bacterium and kill it. 

So, it could be a group of people who can produce the right antibodies. It would be a bit more plausible if they had the same ethnicity.



Outiboros said:


> Dead or not, I'd still file it under zombie books, just as I file Left for Dead under zombie games. Calling them 'infected' doesn't make them less of a zombie. They're feral humans that hunger for flesh.
> For zombies, I'd personally go for a parasitical lifeform, fungoid or bacterial, rather than a carnivore. The changes in behaviour would make more sense from a biological perspective.



They sound like zombies to me too, and I agree on the parasite idea. There are parasites which can take control over their hosts, even making them commit suicide. Very cool.


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## Cran (Jun 13, 2013)

If you're looking for a safeguard for the maker(s) of the bioweapon, then it would probably come down to either a specific anti-toxin (and explaining how your survivor group got some would be a challenge), or to a specific set of genetic markers (as someone else mentioned, DNA profiling). In the second case, one being an American is quite plausible if the American has the right genetic heritage. The more specific genetic markers you include in the weapon's off-switch, the smaller your survivor group will be. 

The only other alternative is the traditional - a time limit placed on the weapon's lethal capacity (or geographic extent), and the survivors were simply not exposed during that time - deep drill miners, hermetic lab workers, submarine crews, Himalayan climbers, etc ...


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## Lewdog (Jun 13, 2013)

What if it just happened to be people that had some kind of rare condition like meningitis and survived it that somehow made it that they could live through the toxin?  Or smallpox, or something like that?


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## Outiboros (Jun 13, 2013)

Lyra Laurant said:


> If you change the word "mutation" for "genetic diversity", I can agree with you, but "mutation" is not a good explanation. Mutations don't occur to make people stronger or whatever, they are errors that will most probably not even allow you to be born, because the chances of a mutation interfering in an important protein are too high. Although somatic mutation allows the existence of immune memory cells, we should be carefull with this concept.


You sound like you know what you're talking about. I'm only a macrobiologist, so my jargon on all the little fiddly bits is a bit rusty.
I meant mutation in the sense of, say, a small change in a protein structure that has no direct or life-threatening effect but hampers a virus that acts on that protein specifically. But yes, genetic diversity is a better term.


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## Whisper (Jun 13, 2013)

The plague hates AB- bloodtypes.
No one with AB- bloodtypes catches the plague.


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## Mariner (Jun 13, 2013)

@Lewdog That was the original idea. But I want to expand and make it more sciencey.


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## Lewdog (Jun 13, 2013)

Mariner said:


> @Lewdog That was the original idea. But I want to expand and make it more sciencey.



Well to me it seems like some type of necrotic plague, if so then it would make sense to use something like all the people bitten with a certain type of necrotic poison from either a snake or a spider, and received the anti-venom should be immune to the plague as well.  I know when people get bitten by a Brown Recluse Spider they get a flesh eating venom, so that might be another avenue you could explore, and it could become the final solution to the problem of the world and not just some genetic mutation.  Here is a list of some spiders and snakes you could think about:



> The viper family of snakes are those that often cause necrotic wounds with their venom, –however, death is also a major side effect. “Viperidae” is the scientific name for the largest family, which include pit vipers; and no, contrary to popular belief, they’re not called they because they come from Hell. It’s because of he hole on the side of their heads, which allows extremely sensitive organs to absorb changes in the environment, –making them formidable to their enemies, and inescapable to prey. The Crotaline sub-family is the most abundantly found in America, which includes:
> Rattlesnakes
> Cottonmouths
> Water Moccasins
> ...



http://necrotic.com/snakes-with-venom-causing-necrosis.html



> Some species in this family are more venomous than others; according to one study, the venom of thechilean recluse and several species of six-eyed sand spider indigenous to southern Africa, contains an order of magnitude more of this substance than do other sicariid spiders such as the brown recluse.[SUP][15][/SUP]Bites by spiders in this family can produce symptoms ranging from minor localized effects, to severe dermonecrotic lesions, up to and including severe systemic reactions including renal failure, and in some cases, death.[SUP][16]
> 
> Numerous other spiders have been associated with necrotic bites in the medical literature. Examples include the Hobo spider and the Yellow Sac spider. However, the bites from these spiders are not known to produce the severe symptoms that often follow from a recluse spider bite, and the level of danger posed by each has been called into question.[/SUP]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_bite

I honestly think this would be your most realistic answer.


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## Cran (Jun 13, 2013)

> Lewdog - that might work for the American, but the story, and presumably most of the survivor group, are based in the UK - poisonous snakes and spiders are a bit hard to come by in the UK, unless the group are scientists or students linked to the research of such animals. Even then, accidental bites would suggest a poor safety regime, so the introduction of such toxins (or serums based on them) would have to be deliberate, and that would mean they knew what was happening in time to do something about it.


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## Lewdog (Jun 13, 2013)

Cran said:


> > Lewdog - that might work for the American, but the story, and presumably most of the survivor group, are based in the UK - poisonous snakes and spiders are a bit hard to come by in the UK, unless the group are scientists or students linked to the research of such animals. Even then, accidental bites would suggest a poor safety regime, so the introduction of such toxins (or serums based on them) would have to be deliberate, and that would mean they knew what was happening in time to do something about it.



They could have gotten bitten while traveling abroad.    I guess it would just depend on how many survivors he wants in his story.  If he doesn't want many, the reason they survive will have to be rare.


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## Cran (Jun 13, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> They could have gotten bitten while traveling abroad.    I guess it would just depend on how many survivors he wants in his story. * If he doesn't want many, the reason they survive will have to be rare.*


Agreed.


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## Mariner (Jun 14, 2013)

The main survivor group will consist of 9 members but there would be around 50 survivors in the whole country, many killed and not mentioned. All characters will come from different ethnic backgrounds and locations, which are in closed.

Father and Daughter from London, Caucasian.
15 year old Male from Grimsby, Caucasian.
American tourist/Experimental Micro-biologist, African-American.
32 year old Female from King's Lynn, Caucasian.
Two sisters from Glasgow, Caucasian.
47 year old male from Bradford, born in Bangladesh.


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## Cran (Jun 14, 2013)

With that group, a genetic off-switch is less likely, and considering the survivor numbers, the same is true for conferred immunity from another viral source or other reason (like they were the ones eating broccoli at the time). You say it's a nationwide hit, which gives it a geographic/concentration limit (and also raises the question of what the rest of the world will do in the aftermath). 

You haven't mentioned if the weapon has an active time limit within the kill zone. If so, then the most likely reason to survive comes back to physical isolation from airborne exposure for the duration. Physical isolation can be as simple as self-contained or highly filtered environments (such as aircraft or similar) or elevations that exceed the barometric density range in which the bioweapon can function (ie, high mountains or deep caves or mines).


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## Staff Deployment (Jun 15, 2013)

I think Lewdog's spider-venom immunity would be excellent, especially in Britain, and especially in such small numbers. They'd have to have been bitten while abroad in Australia or the U.S. – might be a good idea to see if there are any statistics on brits who've had rare accidents like that. If it's like 1000 of them, then maybe not, but I suspect it's closer to the numbers you're talking (10-50).


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## Lewdog (Jun 16, 2013)

I have to tell you that these Brown Recluse bites can be VERY bad.  My step father almost died from a bite on his leg, and I knew someone that got bitten on the fore arm and let it eat all the way to the bone before they sought treatment.  I guess they are pretty prevalent here in Kentucky but I have never seen one.  I did see a Black-widow once on my mother and step-fathers farm.  I had never seen one in nature before, but it was pitch black with the bright red hour glass on its thorax.


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## J Anfinson (Jun 17, 2013)

Off topic:

@Lewdog

Not to be a stickler, but a cottonmouth and a water moccasin is the same thing. Just a different name. Actually they have many names. I read a lot about them for when I wrote that story for the last LM.

On topic: I like the venom idea. But it may be better to write about a native infestation in which several people get bitten.


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## Lewdog (Jun 17, 2013)

J Anfinson said:


> Off topic:
> 
> @Lewdog
> 
> ...



Oh no biggie I didn't type that list, it was cut and pasted from the website I linked.  lol


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## J Anfinson (Jun 17, 2013)

A quick internet search shows that the only poisonous snake in England is an Adder, and there's about a dozen poisonous spiders. I'd go with a spider if the OP decides to use that idea. It could be an effect of the hemotoxin or neurotoxin.


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## Whisper (Jun 17, 2013)

If we're looking at this realistically (and we should be (as much as we can)) There would not be enough of the population left to sustain it if the only immunity was through a spider bite. And what was left would be so spread out they might never find each other. The amount of people bitten by that perticular spider would be less than 1% of the population spread out around the Earth.


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## Staff Deployment (Jun 17, 2013)

Whisper said:


> The amount of people bitten by that perticular spider would be less than 1% of the population spread out around the Earth.



_Exactly as planned_


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## Whisper (Jun 17, 2013)

The problem with that is if less than 1% of the popuation (and I'm being generous with the 1%) it becomes an extinction event. You don't have enough people to sustain the popuation and humans will become extinct in a generation or two.


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## Kevin (Jun 17, 2013)

You left out the secret twist where there's this population in a secluded...


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## Mariner (Jun 20, 2013)

Ive thought about it and I'm changing the disease. But I don't know what to. Any ideas? I thought it would be too much like a zombie, the rotting flesh and all, as I would something more unique.


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## Outiboros (Jun 20, 2013)

Mariner said:


> Ive thought about it and I'm changing the disease. But I don't know what to. Any ideas? I thought it would be too much like a zombie, the rotting flesh and all, as I would something more unique.


Rotting flesh alone has little to do with zombies. Eating people has to do with zombies.

You could use an endoparasitic fungus like Cordyceps if you like some macabre elements - you'd have fungus-covered human remains lying out with Cordyceps fruiting bodies rupturing out from them. These would also provide a root in realism if you still prefer the disease to affect human behaviour. You don't have to make the sick humans feral or aggressive - perhaps making them increasingly placid and unresponsive is more dramatic than having the lunge for your throat. Certainly would make mercy killing harder.


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## Lewdog (Jun 22, 2013)

If you don't want to use the rotting flesh idea, I had shared with someone before the idea of a paralytic toxin that basic turned people into living statues before finally shutting down their hear and lung functions and killing them.  You could call it the Medusa virus, as it would seem like people were being turned into stone.  Their muscles would reach a sudden form of rigor mortis so they would be left in what ever position they were in until the muscle tissue actually started to break down and decompose.  My original idea was to pair it with a high dose of vitamins so that the victims got a sudden rush of energy at onset so that they wouldn't immediately feel infected and seek treatment, thus guaranteeing by the time they know they are indeed infected, it is too late.


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## Mariner (Jun 28, 2013)

I've decided that a sort a plant will disperse spores. They would either kill or mutate, 70% kill, the populous. The mutated will then not need to kill as they have enough energy from photosynthesis. But they would feel threatened by survivors thus attacking them.


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## Bloggsworth (Jun 28, 2013)

It is normal for a significant percentage to survive a biological attack, as happened with the black death, the Spanish flu outbreak after WW1. Those whose genetic makeup is susceptible will die, those whose isn't, wont. This is the case with all transmissible diseases whether they be measles, mumps, rubella; some can be carriers without succumbing, others are just immune. The unlikely scenario is for two people, in the same group, unrelated by sanguinity or ethnic origin, to be equally immune.

Interestingly, on this computer I can carriage return, but I can't on my laptop...


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## Lewdog (Jun 28, 2013)

I got almost every possible illness as a kid Chicken pox, measles, and mumps, yet I don't get poison ivy or poison oak.


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## Bloggsworth (Jun 28, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> I got almost every possible illness as a kid Chicken pox, measles, and mumps, yet I don't get poison ivy or poison oak.


 I had mumps twice! but none of the others...


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## OurJud (Jun 28, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> Calling them 'infected' doesn't make them less of a zombie.



No, but the definition does. A zombie isn't a zombie unless it's returned from the dead. So if Mariner's victims haven't died (as he states) then they're not zombies.



Mariner said:


> It would have to allow an American to live as well; this is set in the U.K.



What do you mean by this exactly? Do you mean an American in his native country, or one living in the UK at the time? If he's part of the group, then doesn't he fall under the same reasoning?


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## Whisper (Jun 28, 2013)

Mariner said:


> I've decided that a sort a plant will disperse spores. They would either kill or mutate, 70% kill, the populous. The mutated will then not need to kill as they have enough energy from photosynthesis. But they would feel threatened by survivors thus attacking them.



Ah, you're going _Day of the Triffids_ route. Good choice.


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## Mariner (Jun 28, 2013)

OurJud said:


> What do you mean by this exactly? Do you mean an American in his native country, or one living in the UK at the time? If he's part of the group, then doesn't he fall under the same reasoning?



He is on holiday in the country or is in hiding, I haven't decided yet.


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## FleshEater (Jun 28, 2013)

Is this in present day? We've become rather proficient in containing an outbreak. I really don't see how a plant could do it. 

Now, what could do it, would be Ebola evolving into an airborne virus. I believe in The Hot Zone (which I HIGHLY recommend reading) they said that if it had the opportunity to become an airborne virus, it very well could kill the entire planet. 

Read The Hot Zone by Richard Preston. It's probably one of the most terrifying reads ever.


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## SerenataImmortale (Jun 30, 2013)

I grew up in the middle of actual nowhere, and even though I've since  left home, I've always been confident that my family could survive any  sort of bio-apocalypse out there because they're simply too far from  people (or most plant or animal life for that matter) to actually  catch anything.  
And the same goes for every other farmer and/or recluse very, very far from any population centers.
So, yeah - isolation is always a good survival technique.


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