# No words



## Sonata (Jul 10, 2015)

I cannot write
cannot stop crying
I itch and it's driving me
mad to stop trying

I am sick and I know it
but naught I can do
just put up with it
and hope it will go


----------



## Mesafalcon (Jul 10, 2015)

Nice rhythm. Good legnth for me. 

Another sad one... alright then.


----------



## Ariel (Jul 10, 2015)

Sonata, I like how you kept this so tight and simple.  Well done.


----------



## aj47 (Jul 10, 2015)

Hi, again, Sonata.  I like the contretemps of the content and style.  My only nit is that you set up an expectation of rhyme in your first stanza and then drop it in the second.  Rhyme is not necessary but when you choose it, you should stick with it and see it through.


----------



## Anari (Jul 10, 2015)

I've had itches that won't stop no matter what you do. Feel bad for you. Love the poem.


----------



## Cato (Jul 10, 2015)

Hi Sonata,

Ok, I will go through the first verse line by line, and then address some overbearing themes and ideas. 

(S1L1) "I cannot write" - So you have started the poem off in diameter, going from iamb sound to a spondee, strange meter but this is your poem. You first line just tells me something; no detail, no 'show', it's just a blank open statement.
(S1L2) "cannot stop crying" - so right off the bat you have changed meters - here we have a double spondee with a feminine ending. It is an interesting choice to use 'cannot' again considering that you used it just in the previous line.
(S1L3) "I itch and it's driving me" - in terms of the meter, you have a iamb, a single unstressed sound, an iamb and another iamb - because this line has it's own internal duality it sounds like it flows a lot better than any of the other lines. Again you are just telling the reading what is going on. 
(S1L4) "mad to stop trying"  - here in the meter you are going antibacchius then spondee  - you meter is all over the place, there is no form. Meter is the primary rhythm and the organizing principle behind verse. I imagine if you read it quickly, it would sound like there is some form of flow or meter, but in realty you are just using the rhyming pair (crying and trying) to cover over the huge errors in the meter. For example your poem shouldn't need to rhyme to follow, reading this and see how it just natural flows  "I write the line and feel the meter flow." or "He bangs his drums and makes a dreadful noise."  - this is because they are in meter, iambic pentameter to be more specific - I would give meter far great thought when attempting a poem. 

If you disagree with me, please feel free to point out where I am wrong and I will more than happily edit this post but I believe that you, like me, are honestly looking for insightful criticism.

Best of Luck,

Cato


----------



## Sonata (Jul 11, 2015)

Cato, I am not a poet - I just write as I do.  I have not studied poetry or any form of literature, and as I said, I just write as I do.  And I admit that I do not have the slightest idea how poetry should be.  And the truth is that I honestly do not understand half of the words in your helpful post, but I am very grateful that you took the time to try to teach me.

Thank you.


----------



## QDOS (Jul 11, 2015)

Sonata
  When writing poetry it can follow a strict rhythm where each line is balanced by the number of syllables. This is a unit of spoken language larger than a phoneme, a phoneme, being a set of speech sounds distinguished by the speaker of a particular language. Then we have a combination of unstressed-stressed syllables, iamb, trochee, dactyl, etc. These being the number of each in a line, described in Greek terminology as Metrical feet, dimeter – 2, trimeter- 3 etc.  Then alliteration, assonance and consonance the ways of creating repetitive patterns of sound all to bring rhythm to the rhyme. A fixed number of lines of verse form a unit of a poem called a stanza. A Couplet is a stanza consisting of two lines of verse. Where as a Quatrain, is a stanza of four lines.  Then just to add further confusion or constraint whichever way you few it verse can come in all shapes and sizes, Odes, Sonnet, Limerick, then we have differing Genre such as Epic, Dramatic, Satirical, Lyric, Elegy. 

  Personally words passionately expressed straight from the heart you might say can be the most dramatic and/or endearing.  Imagine taking snap shots by the dozen, you might get only one or two that give you a spectacular image. In poetry having spewed out your thoughts, when you know you have something of value  you have the chance to tweak it and so aspire to an even greater achievement.  [FONT=&Verdana]

Reward only comes to those who pursue the challenge!

QDOS
[/FONT]


----------



## inkwellness (Jul 11, 2015)

This was a lovely (and sad) piece that stands well on its own. However, I do believe that Mr. QDOS has some good suggestions for improvement and growth. You said it yourself, you are a poet who is still learning. I think we can all agree you have a natural talent and skill for poetry. My suggestion is that this may be your opportunity to expand on your knowledge and skill. Take advantage of the years of experience that our fellow poets have. I too have learned to tap into their knowledge through suggestions to improve the state of my poems and short stories.


----------



## Sonata (Jul 11, 2015)

QDOS said:


> Sonata
> When writing poetry it can follow a strict rhythm where each line is balanced by the number of syllables. This is a unit of spoken language larger than a phoneme, a phoneme, being a set of speech sounds distinguished by the speaker of a particular language. Then we have a combination of unstressed-stressed syllables, iamb, trochee, dactyl, etc. These being the number of each in a line, described in Greek terminology as Metrical feet, dimeter – 2, trimeter- 3 etc.  Then alliteration, assonance and consonance the ways of creating repetitive patterns of sound all to bring rhythm to the rhyme. A fixed number of lines of verse form a unit of a poem called a stanza. A Couplet is a stanza consisting of two lines of verse. Where as a Quatrain, is a stanza of four lines.  Then just to add further confusion or constraint whichever way you few it verse can come in all shapes and sizes, Odes, Sonnet, Limerick, then we have differing Genre such as Epic, Dramatic, Satirical, Lyric, Elegy.
> 
> Personally words passionately expressed straight from the heart you might say can be the most dramatic and/or endearing.  Imagine taking snap shots by the dozen, you might get only one or two that give you a spectacular image. In poetry having spewed out your thoughts, when you know you have something of value  you have the chance to tweak it and so aspire to an even greater achievement.  [FONT=&Verdana]
> ...





inkwellness said:


> This was a lovely (and sad) piece that stands well on its own. However, I do believe that Mr. QDOS has some good suggestions for improvement and growth. You said it yourself, you are a poet who is still learning. I think we can all agree you have a natural talent and skill for poetry. My suggestion is that this may be your opportunity to expand on your knowledge and skill. Take advantage of the years of experience that our fellow poets have. I too have learned to tap into their knowledge through suggestions to improve the state of my poems and short stories.



As I have said, I am not a poet and I honestly do not understand the "proper" words/phrases.

This "poem, for what it is worth, is because I was in hospital beginning of June and I came home with scabies.  Caught at the hospital and only just occurred.  

And I am in agony.  

I cannot reach where I am supposed to put cream  on .  So I itch and I scratch and  I do not know what to do.  My doctor will not be here until Monday late afternoon and the last thing I am worried about is "correct" poetry.  I am out of cream in any case and I hurt.   I am tearing my skin to pieces with the itch,

So I apologise for not even understanding correct poetry.  I just wrote how I felt and am sorry if it was incorrect.


----------



## QDOS (Jul 11, 2015)

Sonata – Unfortunately I can’t offer any cream, but my words were meant as a way of helpful encouragement to continue not a criticism. Poetry as I’ve seen with your postings is your way of alleviating your pain or at least a distraction so please set yourself the task to do more.    

QDOS


----------



## aj47 (Jul 11, 2015)

_From merriam-webster (m-w.com):_*

criticism: *the act of expressing disapproval and of noting the problems or faults of a person or thing : the act of criticizing someone or something

*critique: *a careful judgment in which you give your opinion about the good and bad parts of something (such as a piece of writing or a work of art)

What I, and others have offered is *critique*.  It is what the creative boards (including this Poetry board) are for.  Showing you the good and the bad so you can build up the good and cut out the bad.  So you can improve.  Now you insist you don't want to improve--that's fine.  We're going to keep at you though, as long as you post here, because we see your potential and we want to see you realize it.

If your work was all shit, we wouldn't bother.


----------



## Nellie (Jul 11, 2015)

Sonata said:


> As I have said, I am not a poet and I honestly do not understand the "proper" words/phrases.........
> 
> ........
> 
> So I apologise for not even understanding correct poetry.  I just wrote how I felt and am sorry if it was incorrect.



Maybe you're not a poet, in your own opinion, but you do keep on trying, despite your misunderstanding of the "proper" terminology of poetry. There is a lot of what Cato said that I do not fully understand, either, but IMO, there is no need to apologize for this. Keep writing. Poetry is about writing how we feel, how we see things, what we see, how we view life, our perceptions, etc. There are just different ways of expressing one's self thru poetry, just like there are many different languages. Some are more difficult for some of us to understand and write.


----------



## Nellie (Jul 11, 2015)

astroannie said:


> _From merriam-webster (m-w.com):_*
> 
> criticism: *the act of expressing disapproval and of noting the problems or faults of a person or thing : the act of criticizing someone or something
> 
> ...



But sometimes the *"critique"* of others sounds like *"criticism", * especially if worded harshly.


----------



## Sonata (Jul 11, 2015)

Nellie said:


> But sometimes the *"critique"* of others sounds like *"criticism", * especially if worded harshly.



And sometimes it is so much like criticism that it makes me feel that it is not worth even bothering to try to write.

And just because I studied medicine I am not fit to write "poetry"?  

Why should I have to bother to learn how to write poetry "properly" - are these who are criticiising my feeble attempts prepared to start learning medicine when they are in their seventies?  

I write because words come to me, correct or incorrect, and if I have to write 100% perfect poetry then I am sorry but I cannot.  But for all those who criticise my feeble attempts I will ask this.  Can you deliver a baby?  Can you remove an appendix?  Well even though I cannot post "proper" poetry I can do both.

And if I have to be a perfect poet in order to post on WF, then I reckon some of you are all right and I should not even try.  Which leaves me nowhere to post my thoughts.

I do not remember having seen that in order to become a member of WF a person has to have university qualifications in writing and poetry.


----------



## aj47 (Jul 11, 2015)

Sonata said:


> And sometimes it is so much like criticism that it makes me feel that it is not worth even bothering to try to write.



We all feel discouraged at times...it's part of being human.



> And just because I studied medicine I am not fit to write "poetry"?



To be fair, this is a writing forum, not a medical forum.  My studying programming is irrelevant, too.



> Why should I have to bother to learn how to write poetry "properly" - are these who are criticiising my feeble attempts prepared to start learning medicine when they are in their seventies?



You don't have to bother.  But you choose to post your writing on *a writing forum*. Not only that, but you choose to post in in an area where the appropriate reply to a poem is critique.  This is your choice.  No one is holding you hostage and forcing you to post your work for critique--you are making the choice to do it on your own initiative.



> I write because words come to me,



Me, too.



> correct or incorrect, and if I have to write 100% perfect poetry then I am sorry but I cannot.  But for all those who criticise my feeble attempts I will ask this.  Can you deliver a baby?  Can you remove an appendix?  Well even though I cannot post "proper" poetry I can do both.



No one here is saying you have to be perfect, except you. We all have room for improvement. The purpose of the *Poetry* board is for poets to work on improving their poetry.  That is what we *do* here.  That is the whole reason this little section of WF exists.  



> And if I have to be a perfect poet in order to post on WF, then I reckon some of you are all right and I should not even try.  Which leaves me nowhere to post my thoughts.



The Internet is big.  Even WF is big.  If you don't want critique, you can post to your blog.  Either your blog here, or another blog on a blogsite.  But the essential reason this little bit of the Internet was carved out and separated from the whole rest of the Internet, is for poets to come and get critique.  If you are here for *any other reason* than to get critique, this is not the right place for what you're doing.  Note that I'm not saying it's wrong to post poetry and not want critique--I'm saying that *in this space*, it is not an appropriate thing to do.  And compared to the Internet, it is a tiny, little, space.



> I do not remember having seen that in order to become a member of WF a person has to have university qualifications in writing and poetry.



Nope.  You *are* a member. And you are welcome, and encouraged to participate. But if, as a member, you choose to post *on this board*, you should expect critique.  Read the Poetry Posting Guidelines if you haven't already.

Ultimately, it is your choice of what to do with your time.  If you choose to continue posting poetry in this space, you *will* get critique.  It's what we do here.


----------



## Nellie (Jul 11, 2015)

Sonata, Don't go away just because some are telling you what they think _your_ poetry should be. Please remember these quotes by famous artists and poets:



> “Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”
> ― Pablo Picasso






> “Any fool can make a rule
> And any fool will mind it.”
> ― Henry David Thoreau, _Journal #14_





> “Be natural my children. For the writer that is natural has fulfilled all the rules of art."
> -Charles Dickens


----------



## inkwellness (Jul 11, 2015)

> I do not remember having seen that in order to become a member of WF a person has to have university qualifications in writing and poetry.


 Sonata,
You are right. It doesn't say that. Just keep writing your own way and it will be okay.
Please know that we like you here and do not want you to go.

And I'm truly sorry for your itch.


----------



## Sonata (Jul 12, 2015)

astroannie said:


> ...[snip]...
> 
> You don't have to bother.  But you choose to post your writing on *a writing forum*. Not only that, but you choose to post in in an area where the appropriate reply to a poem is critique.  This is your choice.  No one is holding you hostage and forcing you to post your work for critique--you are making the choice to do it on your own initiative.





> Nope.  You *are* a member. And you are welcome, and encouraged to participate. But if, as a member, you choose to post *on this board*, you should expect critique.  Read the Poetry Posting Guidelines if you haven't already.
> 
> Ultimately, it is your choice of what to do with your time.  If you choose to continue posting poetry in this space, you *will* get critique.  It's what we do here.



Helpful critique is one thing.  But having *every* line *critisised *is not critique.  Especially as I did not understand 99% of it.

It made me feel like a small child in kindergarten who has wet her knickers because she did not understand what the expert caretaker was saying.

I write as I write, in my way of writing.  I happen to like my way of writing.  And my OP was exactly how I felt when I wrote it.

What is so wrong with that?

I wrote another one late [my time] yesterday called "Red" - I guess that was not poetry either so should not have been posted.

I apologise for my ignorance.


----------

