# Who is 'The Wasteful American'?



## garza (Mar 16, 2011)

These comments were originally intended to go in the thread 'The Wasteful American', but they are seriously off topic so the decision was taken to post them separately. 

Now, please, this pointing of fingers is the kind of discussion in which a distinction really ought to be made about what kind of 'American' is being discussed. I'm as aware as anyone of the near universal use of the word to mean a person from the United States of America, my birthplace by the way, but throughout much of the Caribbean and Central America there is a grinding of teeth in unspoken anger when the word is used that way. 

Cubans are especially sensitive. Cuba is excluded from the Organisation of American States, which creates awkward moments when regional co-operation is desired. 

Most people across the region, because of the culture, are too polite to say anything. Having been raised in the U.S. and taught to speak up, I'm not as polite. For that I apologise, but on such topics as who is wasting the planet's resources, a distinction needs to be made, and the particular nation-state under discussion should be clearly identified.  

A few years ago I introduced a tourist from the U.S.A. to then Prime Minister Said Musa. She told him how happy she was to meet him and explained, 'I'm an American'. 'So am I', said the PM. 'I'm a Central American. What kind of American are you?'


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 17, 2011)

If members of the separate States of the European Union started calling themselves "Europeans" instead of "French", "Italian", "German" etc. it would be seen by many as a positive step forward. Why is it that only Texans seem to identify themselves by their State? I have never heard any of my cousins identify themselves as "Arizonans", in fact spell check won't even recognise it.


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## Dudester (Mar 17, 2011)

I see what you mean by use of the word "American." I'm a Texan, and one debate in Texas is whether we are Texans first, or Americans first. Either way, patriotism is a HUGE part of Texas culture. The American flag flies everywhere and often, Texans don't need a national holiday to display their flag and/or patriotism. When a dead American soldier comes back from wherever he/she was killed, everything stops. Part of the city will be shut down for the funeral procession. People will line the route, wave flags, and mourn with the family of the soldier. 

Texas was once a country, and secession comes up when Texans chafe at something Washington did. Texas has it's own standing Army (I'm not talking about the National Guard-that's seperate). There are actually plans drawn on paper, should seccession become necessary. 

Because Texas was once a country and entered the union through a treaty, unlike the other states, the US flag and Texas flag fly at equal heights (unlike other states-where the US flag has prominence). 

When Texans visit other countries, often they will say "I'm a Texan", instead of "I'm an American." Identifying oneself as a Texan has it's own cache. Because Texas is a land of bounty, Texans are expected to spend big, and they do. 

Texas even has it's own dialect. Although most Texans speak Southern (not exactly the most intelligent sounding accent), a unique Texas word is "Fixin", as in I'm going to do something. Texans are problem solvers. It was Red Adair, a Texan, who pioneered firefighting techniques on rogue oil wells. It's his company, "Boots and Coots", which is first called when something goes wrong with an oil well somewhere. When Katrina struck, it was Texans who carried out the evacuation of inundated New Orleans. When FEMA tried to take over the evacuastions, Texans actually warned the FEMA officials to back off and had Police Officers escort the federal agents off of the Astrodome grounds.

The Gulf Coast is suseptible to Hurricanes, Tropical Storms, and large rain events. Unlike other states, Texans will close ranks and do it's own disaster relief with interfaith industries and the Texas State Guard (not National Guard). Although FEMA will come in during the aftermath (on financial matters), FEMA's role is rather small.


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

Olly - But suppose that one country decided that they were the only true Europeans? Suppose, for example, that Germans started calling themselves 'Europeans', expecting the world to recognise Germany and Europe as being synonymous? France would still be called France and Italy would still be called Italy but Germany would take over the name Europe and make it their own. 

When a person from any U.S.A. state, Texas or any other, says 'I'm an American', they are appropriating for themselves a name that belongs to all 35 nations in the Americas. 

Go to Granma and visit the Our America page. You'll find there is much more to America than the United States of. Click on the link.


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## Dudester (Mar 17, 2011)

When Hitler set out to conquer Europe, he envisioned Berlin as the capitol city of Europe. For all intents and purposes, that has happened. Germany is the industrial powerhouse of Europe. Germany has sway with the European countries, excepting France, which strongly wishes to keep it’s culture and language homogeneous.


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## The Backward OX (Mar 17, 2011)

Olly - So you'd be happy to call yourself European and not British or English? And how about the wee Scots? D'you think they'd go along with nonsense like that?


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

Everybody's missing the point. 

Would everyone in every European nation be happy to give up the terms 'Europe' and 'European' and admit that only Germans had the right to use those words? That Germany is Europe? That only Germans are 'Europeans'?

That's the situation in the Americas, where the people of one nation out of 35 believe they are the only 'Americans'.


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## JosephB (Mar 17, 2011)

No, for some reason, you have it firmly in your head that everyone should consider the term "Americans" to mean North, Central and South Americans. Sorry, that's just not the way it is. When people here and around the world say Americans, it almost always means residents of the United States. Deal with it. If you want to initiate some kind of crusade to change that, be my guest.

*EDIT* -- sorry, I didn't notice this was a new thread. I thought it was Terri's. My opinion is the same, however.


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

Oh, Joe, I've been on that crusade since I was 12 years old and cursed by a Canadian for calling myself an American. But the struggle really began when I started moving around the world and sensed the antagonism of people when they heard, or even as they themselves used, the word 'American' to mean someone from the U.S. The fact is, the underlying attitude that has led to the misappropriation of the words 'America' and 'American' is the root of much of the anti-U.S. feeling around the world but especially in the other nations of the Americas. 

My method of dealing with it is the occasional rant. The U.S. is bigger, richer, stronger, and in a world where the ethical high ground is assumed to be wherever the strong man stands, there is no way to challenge that misappropriation.


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## Custard (Mar 17, 2011)

This is crazy, a person that belongs to a country should say that he belongs to the specific 'country'. A Texan is an american, but an American is not a Texan. In my own country I have gotten into quite a few fights, involving both words and fists. A Pakistani is not a Punjabi, or a Balochi or any other race, a Pakistani is a Pakistani that is the end of it.


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

But an American may be from Canada or Barbados or Cuba or Brazil or Belize or the United States of America or Mexico or El Salvador...

There are 35 separate sovereign independent nations that make up America. 35 different countries. But only _one_ of them, the U.S.A., claims the name all to itself.


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## Terry D (Mar 17, 2011)

What do the people of Central and South America call me, as a US citizen (now there's a wide open question!)? I don't think there was any appropriating of the term American by the US. A Brazilian is from Brazil, an Argentinian from Argentina, a Cuban from Cuba. The name of my country is the United States of America, how exactly should I refer to myself? A United Statesian? An 'ian' from between the Canadians and Mexicans? The term came about not through some plan to disrespect other American countries, but because it's simply the easiest way for people, of all nationalities, to refer to us (except of course the Brits, to whom we will always be Yanks). And please don't suggest Yankees, because that isn't part of our country's name, and it would restart the Civil War -- yes, the American Civil War. I understand the feelings in other American countries, but, as Garza mentioned, we are the red headed fat kid in class, we get all the global attention -- good, bad, deserved, undeserved. When someone in Mogadishu says American, it's not Equador they are talking about. And that is because of his mindset, not something planted in him by the US.


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

Red-headed fat kid? You are not even making an effort to be politically correct. 

That's a good place to end this, but before I go I'll tell you what I call people from the U.S. If they are polite I call them U-esians (yew-esian). Otherwise they are just gringos which is the most common name, though not used about tourists to their faces. Other names in English, Spanish, Mayan, Chinese, Garifuna, Hindi, Arabic, and Creole are far less polite.

A kid I used to help with homework asked me once if I was the BFDK when I was in school. That stands, he explained, for Big Fat Dumb Kid. He's now finishing his juris doctorate in the U.S. and we exchange occasional emails, which I always sign BFDK.


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## Writ-with-Hand (Mar 17, 2011)

My former Africology professor who is formerly from Haiti taught us that U.S. citizens are United Statesians. Afrocentric scholarship also appears to use the term "nationality" for ethnicity. Technically they are correct.

So, we were taught that many nationalities exist in the U.S. such as the Puerto Ricans. Afrocentric scholarship does not look on favorably at calling countries with small land masses surrounded by water as "islands" either. It doesn't like nationalities in Africa being referred to as "tribes" either.

Language is important insofar as it calls to mind certain perceptions. 

If I remember correctly the United States of America used to only be officially called the United States. I think it was in the 1800's the "of America" was added on.


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## Terry D (Mar 17, 2011)

garza said:


> Red-headed fat kid? You are not even making an effort to be politically correct.


 
Being politically correct isn't my strong suit, no.  But I think you get my meaning; when it comes to this string of countries from Canada to the  Cape of Good Hope, we are the one which draws most of the world's attention, for whatever reason.



> That's a good place to end this, but before I go I'll tell you what I call people from the U.S. If they are polite I call them U-esians (yew-esian). Otherwise they are just gringos which is the most common name, though not used about tourists to their faces. Other names in English, Spanish, Mayan, Chinese, Garifuna, Hindi, Arabic, and Creole are far less polite.


 
 I wasn't trying to be offensive, or even argumentative.  My question was entirely serious.  The world calls us Americans -- among the other names you mentioned, and I'm sure many more around the world -- but none of those are standardized.  What options are there?  I'm not sure if the general consensus is that we should be ashamed of what we (and everyone else) call ourselves, or if there is some movement to create a new name for those of us in the USA. 

A Google search of the origins of the term American reveals that the term was first popularly used by the English in referring to European settlers of what became the United States of America (a term first used, not in the 1800's, but in the Declaration of Independance) prior to the Revolutionary War.  So, I respectfully submit that we didn't co-opt the name, but I will admit that many of us wear it proudly.



> A kid I used to help with homework asked me once if I was the BFDK when I was in school. That stands, he explained, for Big Fat Dumb Kid. He's now finishing his juris doctorate in the U.S. and we exchange occasional emails, which I always sign BFDK.


 
I repeat that I meant no offense with the metaphore about -- let's call him the RHFK.  It was simply that, a metaphore.  I didn't have red hair, but I was the fat nerd in class lo those many years ago, and as such, I know the attention that kid draws, and the metaphore is apt.


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

'Tribe' is a very useful word. If you can describe a group of people as a tribe, you immediately establish, in the collective mind of the Eurocentric multitude, that the people you refer to are ignorant, backward, savages that need guidance and protection. You can then justify all the evils of colonial exploration and exploitation. To enslave a nation would be wrong. To enslave a tribe is to provide for their welfare. Native North Americans have long rejected the word 'tribe' and have insisted on the word 'nation'.

'United Statesian' is a bit clumsy, which is why I prefer the shorter, smoother, U-esian.


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## Terry D (Mar 17, 2011)

garza said:


> 'Tribe' is a very useful word. If you can describe a group of people as a tribe, you immediately establish, in the collective mind of the Eurocentric multitude, that the people you refer to are ignorant, backward, savages that need guidance and protection. You can then justify all the evils of colonial exploration and exploitation. To enslave a nation would be wrong. To enslave a tribe is to provide for their welfare. Native North Americans have long rejected the word 'tribe' and have insisted on the word 'nation'.
> 
> 'United Statesian' is a bit clumsy, which is why I prefer the shorter, smoother, U-esian.


 
You are spot on with that assesment. I have long believed that humans, as a species, are at their best at the tribal level. All of our worst problems seem to begin when we congregate into communities where the population is so large that we loose the connectedness and personal responsibility demanded of the tribe.


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

Ah, did you read what I wrote, or just copy it? I don't know what you are talking about, but whatever it is, it has nothing to do with what I said.


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## Eluixa (Mar 17, 2011)

I have to say that I don't want to be called a u-esian. I'm American. I'm of this land. That I happened to be born when it was the United States is, well it is what it is. In saying I'm American, I don't disclude the rest of the countries. It is up to the listener to ask for specifics or assume. If I had my drothers, I'd be a citizen of the world and walk peacefully where I wanted.


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## Eluixa (Mar 17, 2011)

He read it Garza, he was agreeing, but then writing something else as well from a different standpoint, sort of another but related subject. Tribe can be a great way of living, but it can be used and abused as well.


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## garza (Mar 17, 2011)

I was talking strictly about language and the words we use to justify the mistreatment of people. The connotation of the word 'tribe' in the minds of many is backward, primitive, illiterate, uncivilised savages. Cherokee Nation has one connotation. Cherokee Tribe has another. One has dignity, the other does not. If you go back and read the last post before mine by Writ with Hand you will see my starting point.

Words have a weight far beyond their dictionary meaning. 

'America' means the 35 nations of the Western Hemisphere, but by use, or misuse, as the case may be, it has come to be generally applied to only one of those nations. That is unfortunate, and the consequences are not understood by the very people most affected, the people of the United States. People in Central America, the Caribbean, and South America have every right to stand up and say to someone from the U.S., 'I'm just as much an American as you are'. They don't do it because the U.S. is the Big Man with the Big Stick.

There's more to it than the word itself. It's the attitude behind the word, the belief that 'born-in-the-U-S-A' is some sort of quality assurance seal guaranteeing that the subject is a bit better than other people, and certainly better than all those funny little people who live in those funny little countries between the Rio Grande and Cape Horn. The relations between the U.S. and its southern neighbours could be greatly  improved if that attitude could be changed, even a little.

I was born in the U.S. but I've lived over half my life in other places. I see the U.S. through bifocals - close-up memories of growing up, a more distant perspective looking at the U.S. from the outside. When you look at the U.S. through the eyes of a Salvadoran or Cuban you get a different picture, and you can understand why over the years the relationship between the U.S. and the nations of the south have not been as cordial as they should have been. 

I would love to live to see the relations between the nation of my birth and the region where I have chosen to live become what they should be. We are neighbours. We should all be friends. But there are stumbling blocks, and one of those is in that one word and the way it is used.


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## Eluixa (Mar 17, 2011)

Not every American thinks they are better than their American neighbors. Some do it would seem, but no lumping us all together. Not fair.
I understand what you are talking about with the concept of tribe as an entity easily taken advantage of and misconstrued.
The concept of a tribe of people that care for each other and their land and community, is also valuable. Nation is a fine word, as it happens.


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## Blood (Mar 17, 2011)

garza said:


> I was talking strictly about language and the words we use to justify the mistreatment of people.


Well why didn't you say so.  



> The connotation of the word 'tribe' in the minds of many is backward, primitive, illiterate, uncivilised savages.


Yes, tribe means all those things except for 'savage'.  We are not living in the 1860's.   So what?  Are we on the verge of offending the Microsoft Tribe?


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## Dudester (Mar 17, 2011)

JosephB said:


> No, for some reason, you have it firmly in your head that everyone should consider the term "Americans" to mean North, Central and South Americans. Sorry, that's just not the way it is. When people here and around the world say Americans, it almost always means residents of the United States. Deal with it. If you want to initiate some kind of crusade to change that, be my guest.
> 
> *EDIT* -- sorry, I didn't notice this was a new thread. I thought it was Terri's. My opinion is the same, however.



I've got to agree with Joseph B on this. You take a lot of pride in being from Belize. Go over to Libya about now and say "I'm an American", and you'll get the same type of greeting as Cinna the Poet in Julius Ceaser (the mob kills him).


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## Blood (Mar 17, 2011)

garza said:


> 'America' means the 35 nations of the Western Hemisphere, but by use, or misuse, as the case may be, it has come to be generally applied to only one of those nations. That is unfortunate, and the consequences are not understood by the very people most affected, the people of the United States. People in Central America, the Caribbean, and South America have every right to stand up and say to someone from the U.S., 'I'm just as much an American as you are'. They don't do it because the U.S. is the Big Man with the Big Stick.


This is a sore spot for you isn't it? ...well deal with it!


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## Blood (Mar 17, 2011)

Dudester said:


> I've got to agree with Joseph B on this.


I literally driopped my drink.


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## garza (Mar 18, 2011)

Blood - It's a sore spot, and I've dealt with it for years. I've made some slight progress in getting a few people to change when I get them to understand how much more cordial and co-operative relations between the U.S. and the nations to the south could be with just a small shift in attitude, even if the name continued to be applied as it is now. 

As for saying that I was dealing strictly with language in the first post about the word 'tribe', I suppose you need to read the post by Writ-with-Hand along with my post to clearly see that.

Dudester - If I were 30, even 20 years younger, Libya is one of the places I would want to be. If I told the crowd, 'I'm an American', they would naturally assume I meant U.S. The reaction would largely depend on the make-up of the crowd, whether rebel or pro government. But why would I tell the crowd anything? I'd get out notebook, pencil, and camera, as I did in the midst of other wars and revolutions from Viet Nam to El Salvador, and start getting copy ready to go on the wire.


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## Terry D (Mar 18, 2011)

garza said:


> Ah, did you read what I wrote, or just copy it? I don't know what you are talking about, but whatever it is, it has nothing to do with what I said.


 
I thought I had been keeping my comments courtious in this thread, but since you decided to to get rude, to hell with it.

Yes, I read what you wrote. And my reply was directly related to the reasons for the Eurocentric attitudes you complained about. Should I appologize for having an opinion? Perhaps that's what's expected of everyone from this land with no name (except the insulting names). We _Nortamericanos_ are just supposed to shut-up and take whatever abuse is heaped upon us by everyone with a grudge, real or imagined. Everyone else is allowed to have a sense of national pride, but we are expected to appologize for our own?


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## garza (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm sorry. In the post about the use of the word tribe I was talking only about language and the connotation of that word, nothing else. The post was a follow-up to the preceding post by Writ-with-Hand. Your response didn't seem to be based on linguistics but on societal issues. I apologise for misunderstanding, or, in fact, for not understanding at all what you were aiming at. I could honestly see no connection between your comment and mine.

Your land has a name. It is the United States of America, and certainly of that name you should be proud. I was born there. I lived the first 21 year of my life there, then returned long enough to raise a son there. It was and remains my first home. But to shorten that name to the one word 'America' is, in the minds of many people, not just me, to claim solely for yourself something that belongs to many. 

The problem with the name is by no means original with me. The idea was first planted in my mind when I was 12 years old on holiday with my parents in Canada. I remarked to a man that I was an American. I received a full blown lecture on what the words 'America' and 'American' mean, that all the land in the Western Hemisphere is part of America, and that the United States of America is only one of many nations that make up America. 

Much later in Central America I discovered a resentment, usually repressed and rarely expressed, over the use of 'America' to mean just the United States of America. Again, I didn't invent the idea, but I've had it thrown in my face often enough for me to understand that it's a burr under the saddle, a small point that reflects a perceived attitude of superiority that many find offensive. Very often when a Central American calls a North American simply 'American', it sounds like a curse, and, very often, it is meant that way.

There is little likelihood, after so many years, that people from the U.S. will stop referring to the U.S. as 'America', or stop using the word 'American' to mean only someone from the U.S. My little crusade that has gone on now for nearly 60 years has won few converts. My little rants are rarely understood. Very few understand the real point, and even fewer change their ways.

Again, I apologise for not understanding what you were trying to say.


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## Baron (Mar 18, 2011)

garza said:


> ...all the land in the Western Hemisphere is part of America..


 
Not yet, sunshine, not yet.


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## garza (Mar 18, 2011)

Which part is not?

Edit - You mean the polar regions? True.


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## Baron (Mar 18, 2011)

garza said:


> Which part is not?
> 
> Edit - You mean the polar regions? True.


 
Since when was Europe a part of the Americas?  Great Britain and Ireland are certainly not.

One of the world's best kept secrets is that North America is really an Irish colony.


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## Terry D (Mar 18, 2011)

garza said:


> There is little likelihood, after so many years, that people from the U.S. will stop referring to the U.S. as 'America', or stop using the word 'American' to mean only someone from the U.S. My little crusade that has gone on now for nearly 60 years has won few converts. My little rants are rarely understood. Very few understand the real point, and even fewer change their ways.


 
I do understand, and can sympathize with your point.  Even if we could get everyone in the United States to stop referring to themselves solely as Americans, it would not solve the problem.  To the rest of the world, even I dare say in other American countries, we would still be called Americans.  As one of my previous posts pointed out, we were not even the frist to coin that name, it was the English.



> Again, I apologise for not understanding what you were trying to say.


 
That's okay.  As a writer it's incumbent upon me to make myself clear.  Sorry about the confusion.


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## garza (Mar 18, 2011)

Defining the Western Hemisphere as encompassing only the Americas is an old bad habit left over from faulty geography lessons early on in my school days. At least two of my primary school teachers taught it that way, and though I've known better for 60 years, it's a deeply ingrained mindset. If I don't stop and consider the facts, I think of 'Western Hemisphere' as all that lies between the top of Canada and Cape Horn. Whatever lies east of Brazil is on the other side of the world. 

Little details are easy. It's the big ones that can become lifelong errors.

And the fact the the U.S. is an Irish colonial possession is a poorly kept secret, at best. That's how in recent years two Irishmen have become president - Kennedy and O'Bama.


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## garza (Mar 18, 2011)

Terry D - Glad we got that sorted out. Time now to move on.


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## Writ-with-Hand (Mar 18, 2011)

Terry D said:


> I thought I had been keeping my comments courtious in this thread, but since you decided to to get rude, to hell with it.
> 
> Yes, I read what you wrote. And my reply was directly related to the reasons for the Eurocentric attitudes you complained about. Should I appologize for having an opinion? Perhaps that's what's expected of everyone from this land with no name (except the insulting names). We _Nortamericanos_ are just supposed to shut-up and take whatever abuse is heaped upon us by everyone with a grudge, real or imagined. Everyone else is allowed to have a sense of national pride, but we are expected to appologize for our own?



You have to read his post in the context of it as a response to my last post.

I'm one that thinks the born and raised citizens of the U.S. are United Statesians, or other terms not limited to American.

I have my doubts and criticisms about some aspects of Afrocentric scholarship. It's particularly anti-Christian to an excessive degree too. But I'll tell you... that single Afrocology class helped me see things, think critically, in a different manner. Much of academics in the West outside of the sciences and mathematics has been - _is _- Eurocentric. If nothing else Afrocentric scholarship provides a needed tension and or balance.


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## Dudester (Mar 18, 2011)

Baron said:


> Since when was Europe a part of the Americas? Great Britain and Ireland are certainly not.
> 
> One of the world's best kept secrets is that North America is really an Irish colony.


 
Did you know that, for election purposes, there are more Polish voters in Chicago than Warsaw ?

Did you know there are more voting Irish in Boston than Belfast ?

Mexican votes are also tallied in Texas (at the Consulates).


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## The Backward OX (Mar 19, 2011)

Terry D said:


> I think you get my meaning; when it comes to this string of countries from Canada to the Cape of Good Hope, we are the one which draws most of the world's attention


Oh, wow. I know there's been some massive tectonic plate movement lately, but this is ridiculous.

And it's 'that', not 'which'.


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## The Backward OX (Mar 19, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *garza*
> 
> 
> If you can describe a group of people as a tribe, you immediately establish, in the collective mind of the Eurocentric multitude, that the people you refer to are ignorant, backward, savages that need guidance and protection


 


garza said:


> Cherokee Nation has one connotation. Cherokee Tribe has another. One has dignity, the other does not.


What narrow-minded rubbish. You're not a Christian by any chance are you?  You and/or the Eurocentric multitude should come down to EnZed, and you and/or they'd have a fight on your/their hands. The Maori are perfectly happy to think of themselves as tribal.


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## The Backward OX (Mar 19, 2011)

garza said:


> The U.S. is bigger, richer, stronger, and in a world where the ethical high ground is assumed to be wherever the strong man stands, there is no way to challenge that misappropriation.


 
Oh yes there is. 

If you seriously want to, listen up:

In Australia (and in Ireland, the UK and EnZed) there’s what’s known as the tall poppy syndrome.

It’s a method of cutting high achievers down to size. All someone like yourself needs do is firstly get a booking agent in Amurrica who believes as you do, and then get together a LARGE group of entertainers from those countries above who are experts at such cutting-down, take them to Amurrica and unleash them for, say, five years, on the Amurrican public. At the end of that time, no so-called Amurrican would dare raise his head above the ramparts.


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