# The Elephant in the Room



## Gumby (Feb 26, 2018)

He is pretty hard to miss. You may have seen him trying to stuff himself  into a small corner, doing his best to be unobtrusive. But the time has  come to acknowledge his presence. 

“He” is the ongoing cost of running this site. We have been very  fortunate these past five years, having Cran as the owner of this forum.  He has been a generous and involved owner, covering the additional  expenditures between what our donations bring in and the bottom line  cost of keeping the doors open.

Cran made the personal decision to never sell WF, preferring instead to  pass her on to those who care the most for The Green Lady. This means  that myself, PiP and Sam will be taking on the responsibility of running this site. Unfortunately, we do not have the resources to match Cran's generosity so we will need your help with a fund raising drive.

  You may have noticed a new addition to our home page (a fundraising thermometer in the forum sidebar)  which we will update on a weekly basis. This will keep all of our  members in the loop, as to where we are financially. Starting on March 1[SUP]st[/SUP], we are setting a goal of $250 a month.

We will also be introducing Google Ads over the  next few months. All monies raised will be plowed back into maintaining  and improving member experience.[FONT=&Verdana]
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## Phil Istine (Feb 26, 2018)

I know I suggested "Roomful of Elephants" for the LM prompt,but I didn't see this coming 
I will be happy to make a small donation as and when I'm able.  It's usually easier for me spring to autumn as my income takes a hit in winter (can't wash windows in a freeze-up).


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## sas (Feb 26, 2018)

On the PayPal donate page, who gets email/phone number info? For political reasons I do not want PayPal to be contacting me.


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## moderan (Feb 27, 2018)

You should consider a Patreon page as well. Surely there are those who could and/or would donate content for such a venture. Extra revenue rivulets couldn't hurt.


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## Phil Istine (Feb 27, 2018)

I was wondering if the donation graphic could be made to stand out more, and possibly show on other pages.  Maybe a flashing yellow graphic to draw attention. Quite a while ago I set the "Introduce Yourself" thread as my brower's opening page. Anyone doing something like that would miss the donation thermometer.
Not so noticeable as to be annoying, but sufficient to attract attention.


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## Gumby (Feb 27, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> I know I suggested "Roomful of Elephants" for the LM prompt,but I didn't see this coming
> I will be happy to make a small donation as and when I'm able.  It's usually easier for me spring to autumn as my income takes a hit in winter (can't wash windows in a freeze-up).



Thank you, Phil! We appreciate any and all donations, including and especially the wonderful donation all of our members make by just being here and participating on the forum.



sas said:


> On the PayPal donate page, who gets email/phone number info? For political reasons I do not want PayPal to be contacting me.



I am not sure, sas. I don't think you can get out of giving that kind of information, unless you wish to make a donation by mail. We do have some members who prefer that method. Anyone who wishes to do so can contact me by PM and I will provide an address for you to use.



moderan said:


> You should consider a Patreon page as well. Surely there are those who could and/or would donate content for such a venture. Extra revenue rivulets couldn't hurt.



Thank you for that, Duane! You are so right, extra revenue rivulets are most welcome. We will check into that.



Phil Istine said:


> I was wondering if the donation graphic could be made to stand out more, and possibly show on other pages.  Maybe a flashing yellow graphic to draw attention. Quite a while ago I set the "Introduce Yourself" thread as my brower's opening page. Anyone doing something like that would miss the donation thermometer.
> Not so noticeable as to be annoying, but sufficient to attract attention.



Hmmm, I'll have to give that some thought, Phil. There is a line between being noticed and being annoying, as you say. Thank you for your question. I do think we could bump up the widgets visibility factor, even if it is only to find a more noticeable one.


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## andrewclunn (Feb 27, 2018)

moderan said:


> You should consider a Patreon page as well. Surely there are those who could and/or would donate content for such a venture. Extra revenue rivulets couldn't hurt.



They already have the Friends Of WritingForum annual donation / subscription option.  Patreon does take a cut, so anyone who wants to do a recurring donation would probably do well to look there first.


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## moderan (Feb 28, 2018)

You're entirely missing the point.
Think visibility.


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## NathanBrazil (Feb 28, 2018)

So that's 10$ a month for 25 members or 5$ a month for 50 members or some mix of the two.  I know that not everyone can afford to donate, but hopefully, with enough donating, we can reach that goal.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 6, 2018)

Does the hosting cost vary with bandwidth used?
I sometimes surf around on here without it being totally necessary.  Would it help reduce overheads if people limited their unnecessary usage?


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## Gumby (Mar 6, 2018)

No, I don't think that has any bearing on the cost, phil.


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## H.Brown (Mar 6, 2018)

Prateon, seems like a good idea to me as well. My other half has been looking into launching his own to sell his artwork an I have also thought about using to sell short stories. I can not always donate to things that I would like to but I would not mind writing content to help bring in money to keep WF going. I would have/like to think that other members would also donate writing, poetry, prose, music, art work we have a very diverse group with many tallents that could be used to bring in revenue. Just my two pennies worth.

P.S I'm sorry to hear that Cran will be taking a step back but I would like to thank Sam, Pip and you Gumby for taking over.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 6, 2018)

My own funds are very short but I reckon I can chip in $5 -$15 most months, and maybe more if my work plans later this year come to fruition.  If enough people make even a small donation, running costs need not be an issue.  I realise that some on here are students and have zero or little income, but so long as people chip in something when they are able, this site should be fine.
I intend to donate a small piece of writing eventually, but a competition organiser  temporarily has rights to it which will return to me later.  It's not a problem.  It's what I agreed to when I didn't think I had a hope in hell of winning it.


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## PiP (Mar 6, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> Does the hosting cost vary with bandwidth used?
> I sometimes surf around on here without it being totally necessary.  Would it help reduce overheads if people limited their unnecessary usage?



Please carry on enjoying WF as before. We want our community to grow and we are working towards improving our member experience rather than restrict it. I don't fully understand bandwidth but Kevin_L, our technical guru, would have it covered.


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## Darren White (Mar 8, 2018)

Whether it's Patreon, or Kickstarter, every fundraiser site asks for a fee in percentage of raised funds (which I think is reasonable). We could gain visibility this way, and perhaps more writers will find us.

In the meantime, every elephant needs food. So don't stay away from the forums, we are the food, but we can become caretakers, or even elephants ourselves.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 18, 2018)

I see the thermometer has disappeared from the main page.  Does this mean that we have made our target for March?


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## PiP (Mar 18, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> I see the thermometer has disappeared from the main page.  Does this mean that we have made our target for March?



Nooo, there was a problem with their website and we had to remove the link. We are looking for another thermometer or similar widget if anyone has any ideas


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## Gumby (Mar 18, 2018)

No, though we are just short of it. What happened was a technical problem with the website we got the thermometer from, so we just disabled it until we can correct it. 

ETA: Jinx, Pip!


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## Phil Istine (Mar 18, 2018)

Sorry to hear that.
I'm wondering if there is a piggy bank version somewhere online.  I just know Pip would love that.


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## Gumby (Mar 19, 2018)

Can't find a piggy bank, but we were forced to install a different thermometer. What do you all think? It is minimalist, yes?


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## Jack of all trades (Mar 19, 2018)

When people pay for something they have higher expectations than when it's free. Insults to one's generation, verbal kicks being declared as helpful advice, declarations that there's no thing called grammar, and the like will make meeting that monthly fundraising goal more difficult, in my opinion.


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## PiP (Mar 25, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> When people pay for something they have higher expectations than when it's free. Insults to one's generation, verbal kicks being declared as helpful advice, declarations that there's no thing called grammar, and the like will make meeting that monthly fundraising goal more difficult, in my opinion.



Jack, there are substantial costs involved in running a forum the size of WF. And I mean* substantial*. So by asking our members help it means WF can continue. *You enjoy 'free' thanks to the generosity of other members (Friends of WF)*. You are entitled to your opinion and there as many opinions as there are people. And, if I recall correctly, you are free with your opinions across the forum whether other members agree with them or not. If you want to debate this further, please send me a PM.


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## PiP (Mar 25, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> I'm wondering if there is a piggy bank version somewhere online.  I just know Pip would love that.



Voilá, we now have a piggy bank. Thanks for your suggestion Phil.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 25, 2018)

I realise that this forum has been ad-free until now. Is there a possibility of that changing?  If it does, hopefully it won't be like some sites where loading times increase exponentially and video sounds are switched on by default.  I do wish I were better placed financially as it wouldn't be an issue.


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## Gumby (Mar 25, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> I realise that this forum has been ad-free until now. Is there a possibility of that changing?  If it does, hopefully it won't be like some sites where loading times increase exponentially and video sounds are switched on by default.  I do wish I were better placed financially as it wouldn't be an issue.



We don't want that scenario either, phil.


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## dither (Mar 25, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> When people pay for something they have higher expectations than when it's free. Insults to one's generation, verbal kicks being declared as helpful advice, declarations that there's no thing called grammar, and the like will make meeting that monthly fundraising goal more difficult, in my opinion.



I'm sorry Joat,
I totally disagree with that.
I would like to think that what you're describing there is honest unbiased appraisal.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 29, 2018)

Bumping this in the hope someone(s) will stump up the final $10 for this month.  Pretty broke myself but managed a derisory contribution earlier in March.


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## Neetu (Apr 10, 2018)

Can I make a donation of $5??Or is that amount too small?


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## H.Brown (Apr 10, 2018)

Neetu said:


> Can I make a donation of $5??Or is that amount too small?


You can donate as much or as little as you want, Neetu.


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## Neetu (Apr 10, 2018)

Through the donation link that comes up on the first page?


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## H.Brown (Apr 10, 2018)

i think so, if you find your having trouble with it I would say drop Pip a line, I think she knows more than me about the donating side of things, but yeah it should work through that or the link at says donate, found on the forums homepage on the right. That link took my to a paypal page that asked me how much I wished to donate.


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## PiP (Apr 10, 2018)

Neetu said:


> Through the donation link that comes up on the first page?



Yes, that's correct, Neetu. Thank you


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## Neetu (Apr 10, 2018)

I just did. Via Paypal. Did not ask to share my email address because that is a different email address and a family one, not my personal one. But I donated!


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## H.Brown (Apr 10, 2018)

Neetu said:


> I just did. Via Paypal. Did not ask to share my email address because that is a different email address and a family one, not my personal one. But I donated!



Woop Woop go Neetu.


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## Neetu (Apr 10, 2018)

For all the crap I give to WF, I need to take some guilt off my conscience.


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## PiP (Apr 10, 2018)

Neetu said:


> For all the crap I give to WF, I need to take some guilt off my conscience.



Neetu, we are a writing family. You know we are always here for you...


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## H.Brown (Apr 10, 2018)

You should have no guilt Neetu, as Pip says we are a writing family. Writing is expression of self in one way or another and we each get to kow others who share and understand the highs and lows of being a writer. If we can not ask our questions and share our words here then where can we. 


Neetu said:


> For all the crap I give to WF, I need to take some guilt off my conscience.


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## Neetu (Apr 10, 2018)

Including when I write "FUCK IT"? I don't say that to WF. Just to me.


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## H.Brown (Apr 11, 2018)

Hahaha even when you scream Fuck it, Neetu, your part of our family now and we stick together. 

This made me laugh after another busy and stressful day thank you. 


Neetu said:


> Including when I write "FUCK IT"? I don't say that to WF. Just to me.


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## Neetu (Apr 11, 2018)

What a whacko family!!!!:highly_amused: But thank you for hanging around me. I hang around you guys too even when you drive me nuts...


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## H.Brown (Apr 11, 2018)

hahaha that we are, well I am anyway.  But we are glad to have you with us. Sorry for driving nuts it's a character trait unfortunately. 



Neetu said:


> What a whacko family!!!!:highly_amused: But thank you for hanging around me. I hang around you guys too even when you drive me nuts...


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## Phil Istine (Apr 11, 2018)

Neetu said:


> Can I make a donation of $5??Or is that amount too small?



I reckon it's fine.  It's all I managed in March.  I take the view that if 50 people manage $5 a month, that pays the forum's costs.  Hopefully I can manage some more once a few of my customers start paying me.


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## PiP (Apr 11, 2018)

Reminder: If you choose the Donate option, once you have completed the payment, please *send a private message to Gumby or PiP to confirm your payment and the subscribing period (1 mth, 3 mths, 6 mths, 1 yr)*as we need to manually change your usergroup to FoWF on the system.*

We really appreciate your support, thank you *


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## nelen (Apr 20, 2018)

I would be quite happy to make a small donation by Direct Debits. Please can you tell me how I can do it? Thanks.


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## ned (Apr 26, 2018)

hello - there are different options available-

on the home page (forums), there is a side bar to the right.

the topt link is Friends of WF, where you can make a donation for special privileges within WF 

the next link down has a donation button, for one-off or monthly contributions - just click the links.

hope this helps...................Ned


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## Sam (Jun 3, 2018)

I'm terribly sorry that I haven't posted in this thread until now. I've been extremely busy of late getting my new career off the ground and making sure that when I eventually got around to coming back, it wouldn't be to make one post and then disappear again. That wouldn't be fair to anyone, especially to all of the donators who have given whatever they can to keep WF's lights on. 

But this thread isn't about me; it's about you, the members, who've been so generous with donations. I can't thank all of you enough, and I can only echo what Gumby has said: all donations will be used for the betterment of WF. You'll be helping us improve WF so that it can continue to be the best writing forum out there. You're all awesome, and any donation, small or large, is greatly appreciated. 

Let me also take a moment to thank both PiP and Gumby, who've done an amazing job since first making this announcement. It's not easy to run a forum this large like they've done in these past months. Aside from monetary requirements, it takes leadership, vision, drive, and strong willpower to deal with all of it -- and they've got all of those qualites in abundance. It'll take some time for _me _to get back into the swing of things, but all three of us have a great working relationship and that will never change. 

The road will be long still, and we've got lots to do, but we're no longer one owner down. I'm back, and there's nowhere else I'd rather be.


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## Davidlandonvoice (Feb 26, 2020)

According to me you should consider a Patreon page as well.


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## Amnesiac (Feb 26, 2020)

Elephants are great!

(I have some fantastic recipes!)



And yes, a huge thanks to Pip and Gumby!


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