# My 12  Year Old Daughter



## BryanJ62 (Nov 13, 2014)

*She's on month two of the training bra/her legs are long/her hair is red/her eyes are blue/the boys are noticing/insert many, many swear words in this section/can I hide her in a tunnel??? *


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## dale (Nov 13, 2014)




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## InstituteMan (Nov 13, 2014)

I've got two daughters, now in their later teen years. In my case, I have come around to kind of pitying their beaus. Those fellas have no idea what they are doing. I know that I thought I was suave and all when I was a young man, but I suspect that nostalgia has made me look smoother in my mind's eye than I really was. Unless you have an uncommon number of Casanovas about, I suspect you daughter will be just fine. At least, she'll be as fine as she wants to be. My girls have been.

I also developed a taste for whiskey over the last few years; that detail may or may not be related.


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## dale (Nov 13, 2014)

InstituteMan said:


> I've got two daughters, now in their later teen years. In my case, I have come around to kind of pitying their beaus. Those fellas have no idea what they are doing. I know that I thought I was suave and all when I was a young man, but I suspect that nostalgia has made me look smoother in my mind's eye than I really was. Unless you have an uncommon number of Casanovas about, I suspect you daughter will be just fine. At least, she'll be as fine as she wants to be. My girls have been.
> 
> I also developed a taste for whiskey over the last few years; that detail may or may not be related.



i feel sorry for ME when my girl gets that age. i'm gonna be a total nervous wreck.


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## InstituteMan (Nov 13, 2014)

dale said:


> i feel sorry for ME when my girl gets that age. i'm gonna be a total nervous wreck.



Honestly, it hasn't as bad as I thought it would be. It has had its nervous moments, but it hasn't been as bad as rumored.


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## BryanJ62 (Nov 13, 2014)

*I'm not a big whiskey drinker......yet.*


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## Winston (Nov 29, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *I'm not a big whiskey drinker......yet.*



You will.

And any potential suitor should always be within sight of your bottle of bourbon and the gun that you are cleaning.  Make sure to ask your wife where your meds are and when your next trip to the VA is, for your PTSD.  Mumble to yourself, and randomly scream non-sensical words:

"_*RUTABAGA!!!"

*_Your daughter's teen years give you the opportunity to really enjoy yourself and let your hair down.  Just set some money away for her therapist.


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## Kevin (Nov 29, 2014)

I sometimes wonder what it would be like to have had a daughter.  About all I can imagine is teaching her how to box.   "Anything happens to my daughter, I *got* a .45 *and a shovel*, (and) I doubt anybody would miss you."


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## Clerically (Nov 30, 2014)

Same here. It would be interesting to have a daughter.
An old friend of mine during my teenage years once told me about what it's like to have a beautiful younger sister:
"Man, it's like you have to take up cage fighting sometimes, you know?"


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## Nemesis (Nov 30, 2014)

I might see things a little differently as a mom of a little girl vs. a dad (though the things her daddy says are right in line with what y'all are saying)

But....


As soon as she's done with potty training I'm going to enroll her in early boxing and/or martial arts classes to get her started young. 

My hope is that by the time she's in high school she'll be able to single handedly take down any guy she wants to and not just have to bluff her way through like I did. That will make both me and my husband feel much better about her dating XD


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## Plasticweld (Nov 30, 2014)

Noxicity, I am down your path, just many years later.  My daughter now 31, started out in gymnastics then swimming and then into kickboxing and boxing. She stopped boxing at 25.  She is  a gorgeous girl, if you were to ask her about her biggest complaint it that guys for the longest time felt they could not approach her.  While it made things easy for me in the teen years I doubt that she shares the same sentiments that I do


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## Mistique (Nov 30, 2014)

When I was in my early teens I had the body of an adult woman and the mind of a child. I liked driving men crazy, but only for attention as I had no idea what I was doing. My most sexy fantasy was being kissed some day. My mind just didn't go beyond that. That wasn't how I acted however. I liked walking sexy, eating ice cream really slowly, wearing clothes that would make an adult woman shy and doing all those things that made guys far older than me pay attention. I had no idea what kind of effect that had on men, but I saw other girls do that (girls far older than me) and so I just copied their behavior. On top of that I was naive to a fault. I trusted everybody instantly.

My dad had the roughest time 

So if your daughter is not doing all those things, consider yourself lucky


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## dither (Nov 30, 2014)

I'm in no position to comment, i don't have a daughter, thank god.
There is much to consider in Plasticweld's comment.
There comes a point where, having done your best, to "bring em up right", you just have to cut them some slack and hope like hell. When, with the best intentions, butting in, as with the boxing skills, might just inadvertently frighten off the perfect partner.
Most " nice guys " scare of easy, y'know?
I did.
The world's full of dirtbags.
All us dads were young lads once, eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







Good luck with that.

dither


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## Mistique (Nov 30, 2014)

dither said:


> I'm in no position to comment, i don't have a daughter, thank god.
> There is much to consider in Plasticweld's comment.
> There comes a point where, having done your best, to "bring em up right", you just have to cut them some slack and hope like hell. When, with the best intentions, butting in, as with the boxing skills, might just inadvertently frighten off the perfect partner.
> Most " nice guys " scare of easy, y'know?
> ...




Sorry, but ehm.... _inadvertently frighten off the perfect partner?..._ She is twelve! There is no such thing as a perfect partner!

My advice would be to protect her. Don't make her feel like she is being watched all the time, but watch her just the same and particularly those around her. She is too young to be able to see what is or isn't a dangerous situation. I have worked as a child protection social worker and the one thing that research shows is the strongest protective factor against predators is a family who cares enough to pay attention and protect. Predators don't like a difficult victim and so when they notice a protective daddy they back off. That is why they often pick girls from families where there isn't a daddy around. So the fact that you do worry about her is probably the one thing that is going to keep her safe. You are keeping her safe, just by being there


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## dither (Nov 30, 2014)

Oh dear,
Misti, you're right.
Absolutely, RIGHT.
I was thinking way ahead.
God that comment of mine looks awful now.


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## InstituteMan (Nov 30, 2014)

As Misti makes abundantly clear (geese, I do pity your parents, Mistique!), you do have to know your kids. 

My daughters have never been much of a cause for concern. The older daughter had a brief "bad boy" spell. The boy in question was most definitely bad, but the spell didn't last long. As for the younger daughter, I pretty much pity the boys in her life; they're playing checkers, and she's playing three dimensional hyper-chess. They're merely pawns.


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## BryanJ62 (Nov 30, 2014)

*When Katie (my 12 year old) was born I made myself one promise that I knew I could control. Katie would have no daddy issues. She would not have to look elsewhere for love that her dad didn't give her. When I was dating that was a huge factor. Of the girls I dated or were best friends with if they had a strong foundation in their home life, if their dad and/or mom were there for them and taught them well they felt good about themselves, they were confident and they made good choices. We are involved in her life, we love her to pieces and we give her lots of rope to make choices. She has turned out to be exactly what I had always dreamed of except.....why the hell did her eyes have to be so blue and her hair so red? Go away boys!!!!!*


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## InstituteMan (Nov 30, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *She has turned out to be exactly what I had always dreamed of except.....why the hell did her eyes have to be so blue and her hair so red? Go away boys!!!!!*



My daughters look alarmingly like their smoking hot mother because . . . she's their mother. It's scary because I know what the boys are thinking when they look at my daughters. I thought it too when I looked at their mother, which is why my kids are here at all, really.


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## Winston (Nov 30, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> ...* they had a strong foundation in their home life, if their dad and/or mom were there for them and taught them well they felt good about themselves, they were confident and they made good choices...*



Seriously.  That's about it, right there. Teach confidence through discipline with love and proper role modeling.

Some boys will be scared off.  The right ones will be looking for an equal.  Someone who can compliment their strengths.  Not be a door mat.


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## BryanJ62 (Nov 30, 2014)

*Exactly, Winston. I knew a lot of guys who wanted nothing but a door mat and what always amazed me is how much complaining they did of not finding the right girl. *


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## Mistique (Nov 30, 2014)

InstituteMan said:


> geese, I do pity your parents, Mistique!



Luckily when I become 16 my dad's suffering was over. I fell in love and my first love became a very serious relationship. He didn't like my boyfriend much, but he did like the fact that he no longer had to chase away every boy in sight. Oh yeah, and after that I started acting my age again  What my dad couldn't do - turn me into a good girl - my boyfriend could.


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## BryanJ62 (Nov 30, 2014)

*I will have a hard time (at first) of accepting the fact that there is a boy good enough for her. There will also be the fear factor of car wrecks/drinking and now we have a new problem out here in Oregon: Marijuana is legal. Going back to my above post, teach her common sense and responsibility. That's all a parent can do. *


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## Sunny (Nov 30, 2014)

When and if I have a daughter, I pray she won't be like the teenager I was.  

I was a daddy's girl until I noticed boys. Then once I did, I no longer wanted to go hunting with my dad. No longer wanted to go Four Wheeling and Snowmobiling with him and his friends. I no longer wanted to watch him clean his guns and ask a million questions about his boy stuff. Sadly no more rough housing like a Tom Boy. I wanted cute boys to keep telling me I was pretty.  My dad unfortunately didn't know how to handle that and instead of giving me more affection, he pulled away and felt shut out, I think. We had a lot of issues in those years. 

I think if you don't get that special kind of affection from your father, you will seek it else where. I know I did. I know I made my Mom's life hell after my Dad moved out when I was 15. I turned into a fool that made a ton of mistakes, looking for things I needed in all the wrong places.

I am a fim believer that having a great father figure in your life can give a growing-up-girl all the respect and love and compliments she needs. She won't need to look for that in boys that are only looking to use her for her pretty face. Having a father that gives her love and teaches her to respect herself will do fine and she won't let stupid boys ruin her and take her places she normally wouldn't go. 

Hopefully she meets a good boy. There are lots of those out there too.


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## aj47 (Nov 30, 2014)

I have kids of both chromosomal patterns.  I've also been a teenager. The trouble is, some kids listen and some don't.  There are steps you can take, but if your daughter is wanting to go her own way, you can only hold your breath and be there when she stumbles.

I don't want to cast a good/evil dichotomy on my daughters because I love them both--they are, however, individuals.  They show their respect and love for me in markedly different ways.  Daughter the first believes that she knows more than I do or will.  Because of this, she doesn't come asking for help or advice unless and until she's in dire straits.   Daughter the second, upon observing the lifestyle of Daughter the first, has decided that I'm one of the smarter people she knows.  I know things about her that her boyfriend of years doesn't. I am the first person consulted. Sometimes this is a tough place to be, because I really do not know it all.  So there are downsides to the upsides.  

Children aren't property.  They have minds and hearts and they will make good and bad choices.  Much as I would love to see my kids only choose well, I know I can't even hold myself to that standard. But as they grow, they get better at picking the right thing.  My non-listening daughter joined the Army. I can see growth there.


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## InstituteMan (Nov 30, 2014)

astroannie said:


> Children aren't property.  They have minds and hearts and they will make good and bad choices.  Much as I would love to see my kids only choose well, I know I can't even hold myself to that standard. But as they grow, they get better at picking the right thing.



Exactly. 

Children also aren't extensions of their parents. All of those things from my own father living vicariously through me that I loathed so much when I was a young adult are the things I most try to avoid in my relationships with my daughters now. The gender difference makes it a little easier for me there.


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## PiP (Nov 30, 2014)

My father bought me a pony when I was twelve - he was a wise man. Ponies were far more interesting than boys, and even if they weren't, the smell of manure and horse soon deterred any admirers.


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## BryanJ62 (Nov 30, 2014)

*I may have to print and frame Sunny and Astroannie's posts. Great advice you two.*


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## dale (Nov 30, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *I may have to print and frame Sunny and Astroannie's posts. Great advice you two.*



oh no no. never listen to a woman when it comes to things that matter. that's lesson #1. you can PRETEND to listen to them.
 but don't do it for real. you have to basically put the fear of god into teenage boys. i mean...that's the only way. i remember 
being a teenage boy. and i remember sneaking into  girl's windows. and i remember all this shit. you know what? if a "dad" 
would have been there to scare the hell out of me? i would have went elsewhere. you have to scare the hell out of teenage boys before they listen. that's just the way it is.


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## Sunny (Nov 30, 2014)

dale said:


> oh no no. never listen to a woman when it comes to things that matter. that's lesson #1. you can PRETEND to listen to them.
> but don't do it for real. you have to basically put the fear of god into teenage boys. i mean...that's the only way. i remember
> being a teenage boy. and i remember sneaking into  girl's windows. and i remember all this shit. you know what? if a "dad"
> would have been there to scare the hell out of me? i would have went elsewhere. you have to scare the hell out of teenage boys before they listen. that's just the way it is.


I think you're right on this one too! Dad needs to be double duty. 

Be there in everyway possible for his daughter. But... you know, just in case she makes some unwise choices.... Dad needs to chase away and scare away all bad boy figures.  

Good luck dads out there. Your daughters don't realize at the time how amazing you truly are for protecting them, but they will as time passes and they get older. They'll be mad and say they hate you forever and break your heart in two..... But then...

They'll say things like, "I can't believe I cried over that jackass Dale when I was 15 and my dad chased him from my bedroom window! Thanks dad for saving me from one of the biggest mistakes I ever would have made." Lol


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## Nemesis (Nov 30, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *I will have a hard time (at first) of accepting the fact that there is a boy good enough for her. There will also be the fear factor of car wrecks/drinking and now we have a new problem out here in Oregon: Marijuana is legal. Going back to my above post, teach her common sense and responsibility. That's all a parent can do. *



I'd worry more about the bad boys and booze then I would weed XD I assume that all kids have or will have tried weed and none of them have died because of it, can't say the same with alcohol I'm afraid.

Of course, when my daughter gets to that age I'm going to tell her and her brother "absolutely not if I ever catch you... yadayada and so on"


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## Sunny (Nov 30, 2014)

Noxicity said:


> I'd worry more about the bad boys and booze then I would weed XD I assume that all kids have or will have tried weed and none of them have died because of it, can't say the same with alcohol I'm afraid.
> 
> Of course, when my daughter gets to that age I'm going to tell her and her brother "absolutely not if I ever catch you... yadayada and so on"



Noxi, what do you think about the parents that say, "if you're going to do it, I'd rather you do in the safety of your own home. You'll do it when me and your mom can supervise". 

Some do that as an alternative. You know your kids are going to do this stuff whether you approve or not. But, does agreeing to let them do it safely at home condone it somehow? 

I always wondered what I'd do in that situation.


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## Nemesis (Nov 30, 2014)

Comes with legal reprecussions I think, some parents let kids throw parties at their houses and I don't agree with that. My kids are one thing, those kids down the street are another entirely

However, I do see merit in taking out the big "mystery" of drinking and getting high, which plays a huge part in why they try (I would know XD)

showing my kids, once they're old enough, that a single beer or a glass of wine isn't such a big deal by letting them partake in the home (not with their friends) is probably a good idea, as well as making sure to point out the drunk at the bar making an idiot of themselves to show what happens when you aren't careful.


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## Sunny (Nov 30, 2014)

I know what you mean about the neighbour kids. I was thinking the same thing. If something happened to them on your watch, you're in big trouble. 

I did drink a lot when I was a teen. I wasn't taught about responsible drinking. However I was taught about drinking and driving. I never got into a vehicle with a drunk driver. I _did_ call my mom almost every weekend and some weekdays in the middle of the night to come and pick me up from wherever I was that night. It didn't matter to her if it was an hour drive and she had to get up for work in 3 hours. My mom was a trooper and picked me up from anywhere. I didn't realize at the time what an ass I was, but I know now how unbelievably selfish I was to do that to her. I guess she saw it the best choice. Better than getting a call that I'd been hurt or killed in a car accident. She always smiled when she picked me up and asked me if I had fun. I guess she didn't want to give me trouble or yell at me about picking me up because she was afraid I might not call the next time. Parents do get sort of stuck, don't they? 

Although, I can say that being open and honest with your kids is really important. It was for me. I never tried drugs because my mom had told me truthfully of her experiences and it scared the pooh outta me. That worked! My friends did it enough around me, but I was the only one that was too scared to ever try it. I tell my mom now, she's the one that saved me from it. She thought she was being too open, telling me of her past in hopes to scare me... but it worked.  

Raising kids seems like really tough work.


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## dale (Dec 1, 2014)

Sunny said:


> I think you're right on this one too! Dad needs to be double duty.
> 
> Be there in everyway possible for his daughter. But... you know, just in case she makes some unwise choices.... Dad needs to chase away and scare away all bad boy figures.
> 
> ...



ha ha. it's really true, though. it's like i have this daughter and i think back to myself as a teenager...so i'm like ....oh my god...no way....
i mean...i was a teenage night prowler. and i think about that and all those girls who just fell for my bullshit. and it scares the living hell out of me
as far as my daughter. i'm like...."do not listen to the 15 year old dales of the world...do not listen to the dales....do not listen to the dales...please."
lol. ya know what i mean?


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## BryanJ62 (Dec 1, 2014)

*When I was in high school one of my classmates had a party at her house. She had a couple of kegs on the deck and most of our senior class was there. It was one of those upper class homes on the hill near the country club. I remember her parents were upstairs. Her mom would come down and check us out and leave. We lived less than an hour from the Canadian border and back than you did not need a passport. The legal drinking age in Canada was 19 and a lot of the clubs were located just passed the border. About a year or so after we graduated she was killed in a car wreck coming back from one of those clubs. I'm not saying if her parents had put their foot down about drinking she'd still be alive but I got the impression they didn't put up much of a fight.   *


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## dale (Dec 1, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *When I was in high school one of my classmates had a party at her house. She had a couple of kegs on the deck and most of our senior class was there. It was one of those upper class homes on the hill near the country club. I remember her parents were upstairs. Her mom would come down and check us out and leave. We lived less than an hour from the Canadian border and back than you did not need a passport. The legal drinking age in Canada was 19 and a lot of the clubs were located just passed the border. About a year or so after we graduated she was killed in a car wreck coming back from one of those clubs. I'm not saying if her parents had put their foot down about drinking she'd still be alive but I got the impression they didn't put up much of a fight.   *



but was her mom hot?


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## Kevin (Dec 1, 2014)

"...and please keep the world's daughters safe from the world's dales... let them be rejected, even kicked in the scrotum if necessary... amen."


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## dale (Dec 1, 2014)

Kevin said:


> "...and please keep the world's daughters safe from the world's dales... let them be rejected, even kicked in the scrotum if necessary... amen."


lol. i'm actually in tiotal agreement with you here. i should have been kicked in the nuts so many times it's not even funny.


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## Kevin (Dec 1, 2014)

Yeah, my 15-year-old self was pretty funny and embarrassing. lol



> My father bought me a pony when I was twelve


 I never got a pony. How come I didn't get a pony?


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## Gyarachu (Dec 1, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Yeah, my 15-year-old self was pretty funny and embarrassing. lol
> 
> I never got a pony. How come I didn't get a pony?



Poor Kevin was never pretty enough.

You know, sometimes I think if I have a daughter, I need to make sure she ends up with a writer. And then I remember Dale exists.


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## Sunny (Dec 1, 2014)

dale said:


> ha ha. it's really true, though. it's like i have this daughter and i think back to myself as a teenager...so i'm like ....oh my god...no way....
> i mean...i was a teenage night prowler. and i think about that and all those girls who just fell for my bullshit. and it scares the living hell out of me
> as far as my daughter. i'm like...."do not listen to the 15 year old dales of the world...do not listen to the dales....do not listen to the dales...please."
> lol. ya know what i mean?



Yep. Just like you don't want her to listen to the 15 year old Dales in the world, I wouldn't want my daughter to be like the 15 year old Michelle I was either. Lol. 

If my kid gives me half the flack I gave my parents, I'm in big trouble. I _did_ listen to the Dales out there and I regret that. However, I wouldn't be who I am today without those experiences. I guess it makes you more appreciative of the Kyle-good-boys out there when you do grow up.  

When you're young, you're so stupid. I was anyway. I thought I knew more than any adult. They would try to lead me down the right path, and I would pretend to listen, but I was thinking, "you don't know me. You don't know how I feel or where I'll end up!" ha ha. Too bad a lot of teenagers are so stubborn. 

My mom likes to tell me now that I may have done some questionable things and made some wrong decisions, but I learned from them and became stronger because of it. So, I guess even mistakes can be good (even if a Dale or two sneak in there). The non-life threatening mistakes can be okay, anyway.


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## Ariel (Dec 1, 2014)

Sunny said:


> Noxi, what do you think about the parents that say, "if you're going to do it, I'd rather you do in the safety of your own home. You'll do it when me and your mom can supervise".
> 
> Some do that as an alternative. You know your kids are going to do this stuff whether you approve or not. But, does agreeing to let them do it safely at home condone it somehow?
> 
> I always wondered what I'd do in that situation.



My mother said that.  Guess what?  I didn't go to her to try anything.  I went to my "best" friend who lived down the street.  Why?  Because I felt that my mom would have been judgmental and she was.


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## Sunny (Dec 1, 2014)

amsawtell said:


> My mother said that.  Guess what?  I didn't go to her to try anything.  I went to my "best" friend who lived down the street.  Why?  Because I felt that my mom would have been judgmental and she was.



So that's another thing, I guess. Good communication with your kids and always let them know you won't judge them or give them hell when/if they're honest with you about something that you don't approve of. 

I had a friend whose mother was terribly judgmental. My friend couldn't tell her mom anything she did because she would have been in big trouble. Even when it came time to have the talk about getting on birth control. My friend had to go to the high school nurse and not her own mother for that. I think it's a shame when your kids can't trust you enough to come to you to talk about these things.


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## Ariel (Dec 1, 2014)

It wasn't just that my mom could be judgmental but that she also tried to live vicariously through me.  It was a very odd mix because she had no problem encouraging me to dress like a whore but if I actually acted out it became an issue.  Yeah, I should be in therapy.


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## Kevin (Dec 1, 2014)

uhhh... 'can I have with my jerk of a boyfriend?' No.
'why? I really like him. I think I love him' No.
'Then can I smoke some?' No.
'can I drink some?' No.
See? I'm being judgmental. In my judgment you're too young, and dumb to be deciding any of those things in the affirmative. We can discuss it if you like, but the answer is no. I'm not your hippy Dad and I'm not sorry about it. Once you're 18 and out of here you can do what you like. My job is to get you there with all your brain cells and your body still intact. Yes, that: a virgin. Like it, lump it, I don't care. That's the way it is. If you want to fight it ultimately you'll become a ward of the state. I wouldn't choose that if I were you. They're not nice like I am. Yeah... you know I'm right. You'll be grown soon enough so why rush it?


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## Sunny (Dec 1, 2014)

Kevin said:


> uhhh... 'can I have with my jerk of a boyfriend?' No.
> 'why? I really like him. I think I love him' No.
> 'Then can I smoke some?' No.
> 'can I drink some?' No.
> See? I'm being judgmental. In my judgment you're too young, and dumb to be deciding any of those things in the affirmative. We can discuss it if you like, but the answer is no. I'm not your hippy Dad and I'm not sorry about it. Once you're 18 and out of here you can do what you like. My job is to get you there with all your brain cells and your body still intact. Yes, that: a virgin. Like it, lump it, I don't care. That's the way it is. If you want to fight it ultimately you'll become a ward of the state. I wouldn't choose that if I were you. They're not nice like I am. Yeah... you know I'm right. You'll be grown soon enough so why rush it?



The sad thing is, they'll do it even if you tell them "No!"

I wouldn't condone what they were doing, but I sure would want them comfortable enough to tell me anything and everything. I would hope that the information I can give them would be better than that of their 15-year-old bestie who learned their info through their 14-year-old bestie. 

I agree that I would _want _to say "no" to all of those things, however, if they're going to do it anyway, I'd rather them be as safe as they can. Just because I close my eyes, put my hands over my ears while yelling no, doesn't mean they aren't in the backseat of Jimbo's truck getting it on. I'd rather have them aware of condoms and the importance of them. I would want my girl on birth control. 

Yikes, it's all so scary! :ambivalence:


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## Sunny (Dec 1, 2014)

amsawtell said:


> It wasn't just that my mom could be judgmental but that she also tried to live vicariously through me.  It was a very odd mix because she had no problem encouraging me to dress like a whore but if I actually acted out it became an issue.  Yeah, I should be in therapy.



I guess no one is perfect at parenting. 

My Dad was a "Do as I say, not as I do!" kind of parent. Not a very good role model by any means. When I did what he did, it infuriated him and he'd say, "you're too young! Wait until you're my age!" My thoughts were, "you do it, and you're fine! _I'll_ be fine."


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## Kyle R (Dec 1, 2014)

Kids will usually do what they want whether you approve of it or not.

That's why I think it's important to talk with them about it all throughout their childhood. Teach them right from wrong. It's not a one-time conversation—it's a lifelong process.

Give them a wise perspective so that when they _are_ exposed to the kind of situations you fear, they'll have the maturity and understanding to make better decisions than we did at their age.

At least, that's all we can hope for!

Either that, or lock your children in a basement. _​It puts the lotion in the basket! _


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## aj47 (Dec 1, 2014)

dale said:


> oh no no. never listen to a woman when it comes to things that matter. that's lesson #1. you can PRETEND to listen to them.
> but don't do it for real. you have to basically put the fear of god into teenage boys. i mean...that's the only way. i remember
> being a teenage boy. and i remember sneaking into  girl's windows. and i remember all this shit. you know what? if a "dad"
> would have been there to scare the hell out of me? i would have went elsewhere. you have to scare the hell out of teenage boys before they listen. that's just the way it is.



As someone who snuck teenage boys in my window, I have to say that "scare" doesn't work.  You need her cooperation.

- - - Updated - - -



Noxicity said:


> I'd worry more about the bad boys and booze then I would weed XD I assume that all kids have or will have tried weed and none of them have died because of it, can't say the same with alcohol I'm afraid.
> 
> Of course, when my daughter gets to that age I'm going to tell her and her brother "absolutely not if I ever catch you... yadayada and so on"



My way of dealing with this is "not in my house."  I don't do weed--never have, never will.  But I don't have a problem with other people doing it _if_ it is legal. Around here, it isn't, and basically, I'm not going to jail for my kids.  When they have their own place, they can make the rules, but while they live here, they follow mine.


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## Blade (Dec 1, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *The legal drinking age in Canada was 19 and a lot of the clubs were located just passed the border. About a year or so after we graduated she was killed in a car wreck coming back from one of those clubs. I'm not saying if her parents had put their foot down about drinking she'd still be alive but I got the impression they didn't put up much of a fight.   *



Sounds predatory to me. That was not an issue I had to deal with as a parent but I would have made a big deal about it. 

I do not live near the border myself but I think this is the first time I have seen the passport idea actually do anyone, aside from governments collecting money on issuing them, any good. I think all the US states now have a drinking age of 21 and Canadian provinces should really follow suit.


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## BryanJ62 (Dec 1, 2014)

*Does anyone know if 19 is still the legal age in Canada? I remember going to clubs when I was a kid. It was weird seeing a bunch of kids drinking and dancing and it was all legal. *


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## Sunny (Dec 1, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *Does anyone know if 19 is still the legal age in Canada? I remember going to clubs when I was a kid. It was weird seeing a bunch of kids drinking and dancing and it was all legal. *


Legal age is still 19. 

If I ever go to the club, which is very very rare, I feel so old. Everyone looks like infants. The girls half dressed and the young boys drooling as they watch. I don't think that'll ever change. I can't believe I was that young the first time I went out drinking at a bar. I felt a lot older than the teens look today.


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## Ariel (Dec 2, 2014)

I think that we should lower the drinking age or raise the age of majority.  I don't think it's right that an 18 year old kid can legally go off to war but can't buy a case of beer to help himself forget the war.

And let's not mention the idiocy of cigarettes.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Dec 2, 2014)

Until the Reagan era it was legal to purchase beer at eighteen. You're right Am, there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy on when you are considered an adult. I tell my  (step) nephews and nieces if they want to be considered an adult just commit murder. That way they'll try you as one.


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## Mistique (Dec 2, 2014)

The legal drinking age in my country was 16 and had been 16 for as long as I can remember. Last year it was changed to 18. My pour cousin was horribly frustrated. He turned sixteen one month after the age was changed. So he had spend the previous year anxiously waiting for the moment that he could legally drink only for it to be changed to 18 right before his birthday.

- - - Updated - - -



amsawtell said:


> I think that we should lower the drinking age or raise the age of majority.  I don't think it's right that an 18 year old kid can legally go off to war but can't buy a case of beer to help himself forget the war.
> 
> And let's not mention the idiocy of cigarettes.



So maybe not change the drinking age, but change the age that a kid can legally go off to war instead


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## Kevin (Dec 2, 2014)

Way overdoing it seems to be an American teenage problem.


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## Ariel (Dec 2, 2014)

Normally I'd agree with you Misti about changing the age of majority so that a kid can't go off to war but then I remember all the kids I know (being from the Midwest and from a lower socio-economic class) who were more eager to go off and fight in a war than they were about drinking.  Not to mention the benefits package that comes along with signing up for the military really can help a lot of people out--if they can navigate all of the loopholes.

Way over doing it is an American problem (not just in our teenage years) because, for us, drinking isn't the norm.  It's still treated like a sin in some churches or at least as a sign of poor willpower.  Then in the places where drinking is a norm we're still unable to comfortably teach our children how to drink and how to know what is too much.  There's nothing wrong with having beer when you're eating a burger and yet a lot of people treat alcohol here as though it doesn't belong on the table as a normal beverage.  To Americans (I blame prohibition) alcohol is for getting drunk.

I remember my grandmother (once everyone was of legal drinking age) serving mimosas at a brunch she hosted and getting frowns from some of her guests because "it isn't even noon."  There was far more orange juice than alcohol in that drink and it wasn't like she was serving vodka straight up.


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## Terry D (Dec 2, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> Until the Reagan era it was legal to purchase beer at eighteen. You're right Am, there seems to be a lot of hypocrisy on when you are considered an adult. I tell my  (step) nephews and nieces if they want to be considered an adult just commit murder. That way they'll try you as one.



The legal drinking age is a state-by-state thing. I was raised in Illinois and the drinking age there has been 21 for as long as I remember (except for a brief 2-year experiment with being able to buy beer and wine at 19 back in 1972-73). Many other states have been at 21 consistently also.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Dec 2, 2014)

Terry D said:


> The legal drinking age is a state-by-state thing. I was raised in Illinois and the drinking age there has been 21 for as long as I remember (except for a brief 2-year experiment with being able to buy beer and wine at 19 back in 1972-73). Many other states have been at 21 consistently also.




 Technically that is true but if I remember it Reagan warned states they would be stripped of highway funds if they didn't raise the age. I could be wrong but eventually every state raised the drinking age to 21, many reluctantly.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 2, 2014)

Unfortunately, I think amsawtell has hit the American prohibitionist nail on the head, as well as the reality of the military as an escape from the often abject poverty that is all too real in America. There are many things that I love about my country, and there are things I think we get wrong, and I will stop there before straying into a political discussion.

I will, however, observe that how the teenage years unfold changes a lot with money and social status. 

I was a poor (and white) hillbilly kid, and once I got off to the fancy college one of my roommates was a poor (and black) inner city kid. We were both at school on generous amounts of financial aid. We couldn't stand one another's music, which was really just a proxy for a larger social disconnect. The thing is, though, after a semester we discovered that once we got past the superficial differences our experiences and challenges growing up poor in America were pretty similar. I did have one advantage, though: once I lost the drawl, got a degree, and dressed nice, I could blend in with the upperclass crowd, but his skin still makes him stand out (even though he has made much, MUCH more money than me in business since our school days).

My own children are the daughters of an attorney and an engineer with a graduate degree. We are not necessarily wealthy, but we have always had enough. Not that we have needed to, but my wife and I could "fix" a lot of problems (trouble at school, arrests, pregnancy) if we needed to. We haven't had to do any fixing like that, but we know we could, and our kids know we could, so they behave differently--and often better, to be honest--than I did when I was younger. They can take chances because they have a net beneath them that I never did, and then learn from them, while I knew that one bad decision would leave me in prison with some of my relatives. On the other hand, some of the kids they have been around are self-entitled pompous twits, because they take that net for granted. How much net is too much, I just can't really say.

Being a teenager is, and always has been, hard, but I really feel for the kids like I was, like my wife was, who really do have to figure out things on their own, without any margin for error. I know from visits with my former high school classmates that most don't figure much out before they screw something up. 

What do you do with that 12 year old daughter? Well, I would try to give her a net, just in case she falls. At some point that net will have to go away a little bit at a time, at at 12 my girls had a lot of net beneath them that they didn't use--just in case.


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## Mistique (Dec 2, 2014)

Not sure if overdoing things is solely an American problem. The British kids in the area of London were I worked were used to pubs closing at a fairly early hour so they made it their goal to drink as much as they could within those hours. Binge drinking was very popular. When the opening hours were changed and pubs stayed open longer that didn't change their drinking habits. They continued to binge drink, but did so longer, hense more kids died.


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## Mistique (Dec 2, 2014)

amsawtell said:


> Normally I'd agree with you Misti about changing the age of majority so that a kid can't go off to war but then I remember all the kids I know (being from the Midwest and from a lower socio-economic class) who were more eager to go off and fight in a war than they were about drinking.  Not to mention the benefits package that comes along with signing up for the military really can help a lot of people out--if they can navigate all of the loopholes.
> 
> Way over doing it is an American problem (not just in our teenage years) because, for us, drinking isn't the norm.  It's still treated like a sin in some churches or at least as a sign of poor willpower.  Then in the places where drinking is a norm we're still unable to comfortably teach our children how to drink and how to know what is too much.  There's nothing wrong with having beer when you're eating a burger and yet a lot of people treat alcohol here as though it doesn't belong on the table as a normal beverage.  To Americans (I blame prohibition) alcohol is for getting drunk.
> 
> I remember my grandmother (once everyone was of legal drinking age) serving mimosas at a brunch she hosted and getting frowns from some of her guests because "it isn't even noon."  There was far more orange juice than alcohol in that drink and it wasn't like she was serving vodka straight up.



That eagerness to go to war is something that I just don't get, but perhaps that is just a cultural different. Serving in the military was manditory for men in my country for a very long time. At 18 that is what you had to do. Most boys of that age would do anything to get out of having to go (and most would fail). In my late teens that law was abandoned and it became voluntary. I remember being thrilled about it, because it meant that my two younger brothers didn't have to go.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Dec 2, 2014)

Mistique said:


> That eagerness to go to war is something that I just don't get, but perhaps that is just a cultural different. Serving in the military was manditory for men in my country for a very long time. At 18 that is what you had to do. Most boys of that age would do anything to get out of having to go (and most would fail). In my late teens that law was abandoned and it became voluntary. I remember being thrilled about it, because it meant that my two younger brothers didn't have to go.




 In the US I think it is for a variety of reasons. Most of the "volunteers" tend to be from poorer backgrounds and for them this is one of the few avenues to generate a livable income. For others, there is a certain "machoness" that goes along with fighting in a war. War still tends to be glorified in ways here, especially since we have been fortunate not to have suffered actual war in the continental US (I'm not counting Hawaii) since the Civil War. I won't blame it on video games because I think the gung-ho bravado of some young men go back to the beginning of time.


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## Mistique (Dec 2, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> In the US I think it is for a variety of reasons. Most of the "volunteers" tend to be from poorer backgrounds and for them this is one of the few avenues to generate a livable income. For others, there is a certain "machoness" that goes along with fighting in a war. War still tends to be glorified in ways here, especially since we have been fortunate not to have suffered actual war in the continental US (I'm not counting Hawaii) since the Civil War. I won't blame it on video games because I think the gung-ho bravado of some young men go back to the beginning of time.



See that would be a difference already. Our welfare system is pretty good. It doesn't make a person rich, and it is certainly getting less and less, but keeps you out of poverty so you don't have to go to the military to get a livable income. War isn't glorified in our country. We tend to go on humanitary missions, but we shy away from most others. Even with the humanitary missions we have become reluctant to join as we were involved in one where we seriously failed to protect the local population. It was an area where the Dutch had control over it, but as it was humanitary they had very few military means and so when all the local men were removed from the area and massacred there wasn't a thing the Dutch soldiers could do to stop them. It always puzzles me how the Dutch respond to war. We send soldiers out to an area and then the public is horrified when one of them dies and people will want to know who is responsible and why we went there at all. I am always the one saying: "We send soldiers into a warzone and one die. What the hell did you think they would do?"


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## Ariel (Dec 2, 2014)

See, welfare is a whole 'nother ball of spit.  Growing up my dad made $6 a month too much for us to qualify for any help.  It would sometimes come down to whether or not we had heat to stay warm or food.


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## Blade (Dec 2, 2014)

Sunny said:


> I felt a lot older than the teens look today.



Not to worry, the same thing will happen to them.:nevreness:

Drinking ages Canada.



Alberta - 18
British Columbia - 19
Manitoba - 18
New Brunswick - 19
Newfoundland and Labrador - 19
Northwest Territories - 19
Nova Scotia - 19
Nunavut - 19
Ontario - 19
Prince Edward Island - 19
Quebec - 18
Saksatchewan - 19
Yukon Territory - 19

I believe all US states are 21 though several have in the past tried lower ages but returned to 21.


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## Mistique (Dec 2, 2014)

amsawtell said:


> See, welfare is a whole 'nother ball of spit.  Growing up my dad made $6 a month too much for us to qualify for any help.  It would sometimes come down to whether or not we had heat to stay warm or food.



I am sorry to hear that amsawtell


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## Morkonan (Dec 2, 2014)

BryanJ62 said:


> *She's on month two of the training bra/her legs are long/her hair is red/her eyes are blue/the boys are noticing/insert many, many swear words in this section/can I hide her in a tunnel??? *



I just gotta say something...

First, to you and all the dad's out there with young girls - I don't know how you do it. I have friends that have daughters and I try to lend them as much support as I can, but we both know too much for it to work very well... These are the years when your hair will start to fall out, you'll get bags under your eyes, your doctor will warn you about your eating and exercising habits and nobody on the face of the Earth will know what you're going through except for another father. You have my deepest sympathies.

I have a comment directed to our fellow writers of the fairer sex participating in this thread: If you knew what it was like to be a teenage boy, you'd be screaming your head off, demanding that BryanJ62 start paying the police a retaining fee for future services...  I don't know have a clue what it's like to have a period or to get breast pains or whatever it is you ladies have to go through during that period in your life. I couldn't begin to address it. But, I know what that period of life is like for a teenage boy and so do all those other fathers of young girls out there. 

They have good reason to be terrified. :cower:

In their day, they terrified their fare share of fathers. The cycle must continue.


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## Mistique (Dec 2, 2014)

I have a god child who is 14 and I had the following conversation with her (to show just how dangerous it can be for young girls and how little parents sometimes know):

Me: How are the boys?

(I'm the cool god mother I can ask about these things)

Daisy:  Something strange happened.

Me: What do you mean?

Daisy: A boy asked me to be his girlfriend, but he was older.

(I'm holding my heart already, but I don't show it in my face)

Me: How much older?

Daisy: He's 21

(I'm pratically holding my breath now, but I don't want to freak her out)

Me: What did you think about that?

Daisy: I though it was really nice, because nobody has ever asked me that before.

(Okay, now my heart stopped)

Me: What about his age?

Daisy: I thought that was a bit strange.

(Thank god)

Me: Yes, I would also think that is quite strange. Did you tell your mum and dad about this?

Daisy: No

Me: Why not?

Daisy: I said no to him and then he cursed at me and I cursed back at him. He said I couldn't tell my mum as she would get angry that I cursed.

(Inside my head I am doing a happy little dance and on the outside I am smiling)

Me: I think you did very well and in this case your mum wouldn't mind you cursing.

Daisy: You think so?

Me: Oh yes, definately, I know so. I think you should tell your mum tonight.

Daisy did tell her mum, because I checked later that night with her mum if she had. Her mum was very proud of Daisy (As was I). If daisy wouldn't have told her mum then I would have as I felt her parents needed to know. I was utterly shocked that she would keep something as dangerous as this hidden from her parents because of a silly reason - but competely understandable from her perspective - as 'I cursed'. What I mean with this example is that as parents you think you are teaching your kid the right thing (no cursing), but some creap uses it against them. It scared me to bits. It was a reason for Daisy's parents to have a conversation with her about what sort of people you can be very impolite to if you need to be.


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## dale (Dec 2, 2014)

Blade said:


> Not to worry, the same thing will happen to them.:nevreness:
> 
> Drinking ages Canada.
> 
> ...



that's because the fed gov threatens states with withholding highway funds if they lower it.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 2, 2014)

Wow, Misti, I am glad you were there for your God daughter. That's crazy, but so believable.


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## Morkonan (Dec 2, 2014)

Mistique said:


> ....It scared me to bits. It was a reason for Daisy's parents to have a conversation with her about what sort of people you can be very impolite to if you need to be.



/shivers

This is how someone came up with the idea for a sawed-off shotgun.

He's younger than me.
He's more agile than I am.
I need better shot-spread.


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## BryanJ62 (Dec 2, 2014)

amsawtell said:


> _*I think that we should lower the drinking age or raise the age of majority.  I don't think it's right that an 18 year old kid can legally go off to war but can't buy a case of beer to help himself forget the war.
> 
> And let's not mention the idiocy of cigarettes*_.



*Quote of the day. Nailed it!*


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## Kevin (Dec 2, 2014)

there were two twelve-year-olds in my old neighborhood who looked 18 and dated older-than-twenty-somethings. I was only 17 at the time and thought they were way too young for me however mature-ish looking. It didn't seem so shocking as more odd to me. I have no clue what their parents knew or thought. No one went to jail or even got arrested.


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## Mistique (Dec 3, 2014)

InstituteMan said:


> Wow, Misti, I am glad you were there for your God daughter. That's crazy, but so believable.



Because I am the  'cool' godmother - and I am not as cool as she thinks but I spoil her a little - she tells me those things that teenagers usually won't tell adults. I have these kind of talks with her a lot. Especially because she is like I was when her age. Besides I feel quite honered that she trust me this way.


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## dale (Dec 3, 2014)

Kevin said:


> there were two twelve-year-olds in my old neighborhood who looked 18 and dated older-than-twenty-somethings. I was only 17 at the time and thought they were way too young for me however mature-ish looking. It didn't seem so shocking as more odd to me. I have no clue what their parents knew or thought. No one went to jail or even got arrested.



 this irritates the crap out of me when i see it. it's like i just wonder if they have a dad in the home at all. i see these young girls out dressed skimpy as hell. it reminds me of the story of the turtle and the scorpion. as a dad, you gotta know those scorpions are out there. why the hell are you gonna let your daughter walk around basically wearing a sign around her neck like an open invitation to scorpions?


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## Sunny (Dec 3, 2014)

dale said:


> this irritates the crap out of me when i see it. it's like i just wonder if they have a dad in the home at all. i see these young girls out dressed skimpy as hell. it reminds me of the story of the turtle and the scorpion. as a dad, you gotta know those scorpions are out there. why the hell are you gonna let your daughter walk around basically wearing a sign around her neck like an open invitation to scorpions?


I'm not sure dads _let _them dress that way. Mine would have surely murdered me if he'd seen the way I dressed a few times. (Some dads probably don't care though. The few chosen good ones that is.  )

i did leave the house dressed how I wanted my parents to see me, but I also changed my clothes somewhere else. I didn't do the trampy dress-up phase for long, but when I did... Wow what attention you get as a young teen. I was 13 and felt 21. Looks from young boys my age to older men of my fathers age. Absolutely repulsive to me now, knowing I allowed myself to be seen that way, but back then it was a different story. 

Girls who want the wrong kind of attention do it. I don't think most know it's what their looking for, but it is. Got to teach girls to respect themselves at a very young age. 

My grandfather (my father figure) had a long talk with me one day. Out of the blue he sat me down, told me he was ashamed to see his little girl acting that way. (He'd heard most of my friends were boys and it felt strange to him) 

Well.. That talk did it. I changed after that. I made a conscious decision to be the other girl that day, and I never looked back. Fathers and grandfathers hold more power than they know with the young girls in their lives. There was no yelling or accusing that day, just honest feelings and a whole lot of change.


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## Mistique (Dec 4, 2014)

dale said:


> this irritates the crap out of me when i see it. it's like i just wonder if they have a dad in the home at all. i see these young girls out dressed skimpy as hell. it reminds me of the story of the turtle and the scorpion. as a dad, you gotta know those scorpions are out there. why the hell are you gonna let your daughter walk around basically wearing a sign around her neck like an open invitation to scorpions?



I completely agree with you. If Kevin knew about them acting this way then I have no doubt that their parents could have and should have known too.


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## dale (Dec 4, 2014)

Mistique said:


> I completely agree with you. If Kevin knew about them acting this way then I have no doubt that their parents could have and should have known too.



well, in all fairness, sunny is right to an extent. i remember being 13 and my mom not liking me wearing my ozzy concert t-shirts
 with the satanic symbols on them. so i would wear the tacky sweaters out the door and then change shirts later. it's why a dad
has to keep up with the times. lol. like i don't care how deceptive it sounds...when my daughter gets "facebook age"? don't think
i won't have an account all set up as a teenage girl to become her "friend" and see what she's up to. we'll just call her life my "need to know". ha ha


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## Mistique (Dec 4, 2014)

dale said:


> well, in all fairness, sunny is right to an extent. i remember being 13 and my mom not liking me wearing my ozzy concert t-shirts
> with the satanic symbols on them. so i would wear the tacky sweaters out the door and then change shirts later. it's why a dad
> has to keep up with the times. lol. like i don't care how deceptive it sounds...when my daughter gets "facebook age"? don't think
> i won't have an account all set up as a teenage girl to become her "friend" and see what she's up to. we'll just call her life my "need to know". ha ha



Yes, but that is a tshirt or some outfit. These girls were doing far more than that and people knew about it.


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## Sunny (Dec 4, 2014)

dale said:


> well, in all fairness, sunny is right to an extent.



Pffft! I'm right all the way buddy!


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## InstituteMan (Dec 4, 2014)

I admit to being conflicted in terms of how I write and speak about the clothing choices I see my daughters' peers making. 

I totally don't think that what a woman or girl is wearing justifies or even slightly excuses poor behavior by men and boys. Catcalls and worse are not acceptable under any circumstances, and it is the responsibility of the young men (and their parents) to conform their behavior to the acceptable standards. I never want any criticism I make of the clothing choices I see on some women/girls to imply that they deserve to be treated disrespectfully, much less poorly. I usually hold my tongue, lest I be interpreted as condoning misbehavior toward a usually naïve young woman.

But . . .

That doesn't mean that running around looking like a wannabe lingerie model is okay, either. First impressions aren't usually accurate, but if the first impression you give someone is that you are all about the sexy, that impression will not fade quickly once you demonstrate other skills, abilities, and interests. There's a time and place to be all about the sexy--at a club or on a date, perhaps--but going to classes or work or the grocery store is not that time and place.


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## Ariel (Dec 4, 2014)

To be fair to all girls/women, it's difficult to know (without proper guidance) how to dress for anything.  My mother was a stay-at-home mom from a blue-collar family.  My dad's a mechanic.  I have very little idea how to dress modernly for a business professional.  My only female role-model on that kind of dress is my grandmother and she died almost six years ago.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 4, 2014)

amsawtell said:


> To be fair to all girls/women, it's difficult to know (without proper guidance) how to dress for anything.  My mother was a stay-at-home mom from a blue-collar family.  My dad's a mechanic.  I have very little idea how to dress modernly for a business professional.  My only female role-model on that kind of dress is my grandmother and she died almost six years ago.



As a guy who went from poor farm kid to a Big Firm lawyer, I can tell you that this is a challenge for men, too--but not nearly as big of a challenge as it is for women. 

Back when I was still with my prior firm (in the days when Big Firms were hiring new attorneys), every year a new crop of youngsters would show up. The guys at least could just show up in a suit. A man can communicate a shocking amount of information by the suit he wears, not just with the brand but also with the fit, color, and style, but at least a fellow wearing a suit will never be totally out of place in a law office. Some of the poor women, however, would show up like they were off of the set of Ally McBeal or (more likely) some more recent show/movie I had never heard of but that similarly depicted the up-and-coming female associates showing a lot of flesh.

I felt for all of them, both the men and the women. It was a lot easier for a new man to outlive a poor wardrobe choice early on than it was for a woman, though.


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## LeeC (Dec 4, 2014)

Ah, you townies and worries about appearance  It's much easier I found working outside, especially in the natural sciences. Wish I could have spent my whole working career taking showers in the evening (if even that) instead of in the morning. 

Be thankful IM that you're not one of the species where the male has to do all the attracting  

That aside, my daughter was shall we say, strongly independent as a teenager. She gave me all my gray hair and more, like the day she came home with her hair dyed bright red. If you can reach some level of understanding with your daughters, you're doing a much better job than I did. Of course, if you're lucky like I was, it all works out in the end. Now closing on the big 50, my daughter is a high school teacher ;-)

As far as the males' behavior, such is mostly a nurturing thing I believe. Raised where I was in 1940's Wyoming (first state to grant women the right to vote [in 1869] and to elect a woman governor), one acted properly in mixed company. When I first started noticing girls, my grandmother repeatedly told me to watch my mouth and keep my shirttail tucked in. I listened, because if I didn't she practiced broomology ;-)

We're all at the mercy of inherent natural order drives of course. When a neighbor used to raise sheep, he'd keep the ewes in one of my pastures each summer. He'd found that even if the ram was confined well enough to keep it from the ewes, the ewes would find a way to get to the ram. 

Well now you've got me rambling on about nonsense, sorry.


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## Nemesis (Dec 5, 2014)

Blade said:


> Not to worry, the same thing will happen to them.:nevreness:
> 
> Drinking ages Canada.
> 
> ...



Some states allow you to drink at 16 (18 at others) so long as a parent/gaurdian is present and buying or if you're married to someone over the age of 21


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