# Writing the Opposite Sex



## caelum (Jul 17, 2010)

Figarooooooooooooooo, figaro figaro figaro figarooooooooooooooo


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## Baron (Jul 17, 2010)

> *From "As Good As It Gets" - Jack Nicholson*
> 
> *Secretary*: How do you write women so well?
> *Melvin Udall*: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.


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## Like a Fox (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm writing a male MC for my novel. I think I do okay... I'm not the girliest of girls. Every now and then I'll trip up, but I have a male readership who I can consult. 

You wouldn't want to write a simpering girl. You could write a pretty cool chick though, I'm sure. And when you're unsure how to have her act, ask a girl.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jul 17, 2010)

Funny, Rob. I've got a more logical suggestion: Cross dress (It worked pretty well for Hilary Swank.) for two months and read only women's fiction, chick lit, and Harlequin romances. Works great, I promise. 

If you're a girl, just substitute thrillers, manuals and porn for the three genres above.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 17, 2010)

Just make up women who are the way you want women to be.   Like romance writers do.   

(The romance convention of not wearing shirts could also be used to advantage)


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## JosephB (Jul 17, 2010)

I think one mistake might be trying too hard to write men and women differently. I think there are a few differences that might be reflected. Women often, but not always, are more willing to communicate how they feel. I use that in dialog sometimes. And they are more likely to show their emotions. That women tend to grieve more openly would be an example of that.

You might consider those things to be stereotypical, and they are to a degree. So I think you have to use them with caution, and not go overboard.

A lot of what I write about women comes from observation. Here’s an example: I’ve noticed women, when they meet or talk to small children are more likely to squat or bend over to speak with them. That reflects the more nurturing side of women. I used that as a bit of action in one of my stories. Who knows if anyone would pick up on that. But maybe those things add up and lead to a more accurate portrayal.

Otherwise, I think that a lot of the differences as portrayed in pop-psychology and in popular entertainment are greatly exaggerated. I think showing differences subtly is the key.


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## Foxee (Jul 17, 2010)

> No, caelum, it's nothing to worry about.  Actually, caelum, you should  be pulling your hair out


Don't touch the hair!

First, take a deep breath, then let it out slowly...here's the truth...

Men and women ARE different.

(see, I had you let out the breath so you couldn't scream)

But the GOOD news is...you can do this. How can you figure out how to write the opposite sex?

Observation: I'm guessing you have a mother. She's probably not the only woman you've ever seen, either. Observing what women do won't give you the 'why' but it's a start. 

Remember that we're females but we're also people: To a certain extent you're right, men and women do share humanity in common. Sometimes that seems to be the only thing we have in common but hang onto that. 

There are indeed books that offer insights into the opposite sex: I don't have any suggestions offhand for books about women but I have read two good ones for trying to understand men. One was written as a result of a formal survey...a large group of men (I can't remember how many) were polled on a group of questions and the results were published in the book. Another is the result of a long-time relationship talk show host's career. Have a look around and you can find similar books about how women see the world and differ from men. Ask women what they think to make sure you haven't picked something totally off the wall.

The honest truth about sex: Men sometimes mention that their penis tries to take over their brain and women seem to get a bad rap as not being interested in sex. The truth is, (this is my opinion and seems to be borne out among my friends, too) women do think about sex...quite a lot. We just don't have the testosterone to push us around. We have different hormones that push us around.

Well, it's hard to top a point about sex. I'll come back later and see if I have more to add.


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## J.E. Blackworth (Jul 17, 2010)

This is an interesting discussion... I  have always found male characters easier than female characters, even though I am a girl myself. The reason is a mystery to me, but I am not able to make interesting female characters. Actually, I have never found any female character interesting... In my novel-in-progress, both of the main characters are men. Then again I do not intentionally go and create a character who IS A MAN. I just create a character who happens to be male. And I just make a lot more male than female characters. I do not find it tricky at all. I've been wondering about it a lot, though.

So, well, I can only say what Like a Fox said earlier;


> And when you're unsure how to have her act,  ask a girl.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 17, 2010)

Same here.   I just find female characters a lot more fun.  And of course, they're females I'd love to know.  The Pygmalion impulse, I suppose.

Of course, they probably lack the deep intricacies the female psyche is reputed to entertain, but I'm a shallow guy anyway, so I don't care.  As long as they look good, are funny, and kick ass, I'm happy.


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## Olly Buckle (Jul 17, 2010)

Remember that most people at the top end of the autistic spectrum are men and most men are somewhere on the spectrum (the first is a confirmable observation the second is a personal one), then write as though you are not.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 17, 2010)

Uh, yeah.  Okay.


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## J.E. Blackworth (Jul 17, 2010)

> I just find female characters a lot more fun.  And of course, they're  females I'd love to know.



Amen to that. My male characters are males I would like to know personally.
But then again, when someone thinks like that, they might make a character that is annoyingly _perfect_.

Well. I do not like "perfect" people anyway.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 17, 2010)

Tell ya what...  here's Dancy Russell,  whattaya think?  One more typical beautiful kidnap victim?

http://linrobinson.com/damnedlove/?p=23
http://linrobinson.com/damnedlove/?p=27


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## SilverMoon (Jul 17, 2010)

Had one of those nights late last night basically soliloquy writing. So, here I address the OP without the stray.



			
				Caelum said:
			
		

> I'm developing a female heroine of sorts, but I'm worried that I won't be able to empathize her well. Do the sexes really behave so different?


 
I think this is an interesting perspective:

"If I am going to write like “a woman,” maybe I should avoid thinking of her – first and foremost — as a woman. She is a human being. A mother in North Carolina might have more in common with a male Eskimo than another mother down the block. Maybe the mother and the Eskimo both have phobias about snakes, or both had a controlling father! I can delve into a female’s character motivation and emotional state without even thinking about her gender. Wouldn’t this be the best way to make a female character three-dimensional?"

http://www.citizenofthemonth.com/2008/05/27/write-like-the-opposite-sex-day-a-question/


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## J.E. Blackworth (Jul 17, 2010)

> here's Dancy Russell,  whattaya think?



Oh what do I think of her, lin? I think she is just as you described; goodlooking, funny and she kicks ass!


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## seigfried007 (Jul 17, 2010)

Yes, we're different, but if you set out to make a male or a female character as opposed to a character you may wind up with a stereotype. All gender "usuals" are just that--general tendencies. Don't stereotype a person of a different gender any more than you would for a person of a diffrent race or orientation.

Read lady autobiographies and columns. They often don't start at the beginning and will usually meander before finally getting to the point. Women are usually like this in everything. They like red herrings in arguments and don't usually take like they dish in fights (which is to say if you ever confront one with a lack of logic, she'll usually bring up something else entirely, insult you or run off hurt). They love feeling sexy and desired even if they don't want you but also don't want you to come onto them. Most are incredibly insecure about their bodies, their work performance, and almost every other way a person can be insecure. They don't usually talk about what is bothering them but are miserable just the same.

Not all woman fit these statements even remotely. I try very hard not to. 

Hormones are a fact of life. Because lady hormones fluctuate a lot more than guy hormones, the mood swings get bigger and the weirdnesses caused by those hormones more apparent. Facts of life. Ladies are going to feel different depending on what time of the month you're dealing with.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 17, 2010)

J.E. Blackworth said:


> Oh what do I think of her, lin? I think she is just as you described; goodlooking, funny and she kicks ass!



Don't forget shallow.
Those kidnappers are in for a rough ride, believe me.

Thanks


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## Foxee (Jul 17, 2010)

oop, I forgot to mention one thing that really irks me when a guy writes a female character. This is an example from a Sydney Sheldon book that my mom-in-law gave me but I just couldn't make it past the first chapter and a half.

When you're writing from any character's point of view, you have to remember what's important to them. In the Sydney Sheldon book a woman is standing in front of a mirror, dressed to go out to a fancy dinner. Last minute primping in the hallway, fluffing her hair, etc. To this woman, she was putting the finishing touches on her look, making sure nothing was out of place, etc. However, good ol' Sydney wrote from a masculine standpoint that she was 'messing with her hair'. 

A woman who is frustrated with her hair and doesn't much care to be dealing with it might say she's 'messing with her hair' but a woman who's putting the finishing touches on her look won't. It's important to her. It was the wronge perspective, I assume it was Sydney's.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 17, 2010)

seigfried007 said:


> Ladies are going to feel different depending on what time of the month you're dealing with.



Author's note:  Please read this book only during the last four days of the month.


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## caelum (Jul 17, 2010)

Figarooooooooooooooo, figaro figaro figaro figarooooooooooooooo


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 17, 2010)

Well, there are women like that, too.

But they have to be sought younger with each passing generation.


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## The Backward OX (Jul 18, 2010)

Olly Buckle said:


> Remember that most people at the top end of the autistic spectrum are men and most men are somewhere on the spectrum (the first is a confirmable observation the second is a personal one)


 
With respect, your second observation is rubbish. You’ve been out in the sun again. If it were so, the world would be entirely peopled by men who were born clumsy, naïve and lacking social awareness, and who as a result never achieved anything worthwhile. Clearly this isn’t the case and your hypothesis collapses completely.


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## Blood (Jul 18, 2010)

Foxee said:


> Men sometimes mention that their penis tries to take over their brain...


Yea, penis' don't actually think.  Or unless you mean as some form of parasite.


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## caelum (Jul 18, 2010)

It's more of a not enough blood to go around situation.


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## Blood (Jul 18, 2010)

Right.  Carry on...


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## alanmt (Jul 18, 2010)

sigh.  All, right, I'll take one for the team.

Let me know caelum when you get to the romantic section of the book and I will flirt with you so you can imagine what it's like from a woman's perspective.

sheesh.  the things I do for you guys.


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## Like a Fox (Jul 18, 2010)

Hahaha. Oh alan.


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## seigfried007 (Jul 18, 2010)

Wrong, so wrong... but oh so _right_


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 18, 2010)

> Yea, penis' don't actually think.



That's the whole idea, all right.


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## Olly Buckle (Jul 18, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> With respect, your second observation is rubbish. You’ve been out in the sun again. If it were so, the world would be entirely peopled by men who were born clumsy, naïve and lacking social awareness, and who as a result never achieved anything worthwhile. Clearly this isn’t the case and your hypothesis collapses completely.



Is this sarcasm? In the world I see most men are naive and lacking in social awerness, at least compared to women, it does not seem to hinder achievement.


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## caelum (Jul 18, 2010)

haha, if you were a chick I wouldn't mind, Alan.  As it is right now, romance for the heroine is a possibility but I'm not presently working on a project involving her.


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## darknite_johanne (Jul 18, 2010)

having a whole bunch of girl friends to consult is important on details, but in more general ways, you shouldn't worry too much.


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## Eluixa (Jul 18, 2010)

I wrote the same question some time ago, but it's probably still here. You might go look at those responses too. 
And I tend to agree, that I enjoy writing men much more. It flows better, and I find them so much more interesting, and worry more about making my heroine interesting.


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## Eluixa (Jul 18, 2010)

Here, 
http://www.writingforums.com/showthread.php?104629-Writing-men-when-you-are-not-one&highlight=
Course, it was from the opposite perspective, but you might still want to look.


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## caelum (Jul 19, 2010)

Thanks a lot Eluixa, exactly what I'm talking about.


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## Fantasy of You (Jul 19, 2010)

It frustrates me when I see the question 'how to I write as a woman - _I am a man_!' Gender is one of many things that create a persons personality, what does it matter what does or does not slap against their thigh (or knee, if you're fortunate/cursed enough).


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## seigfried007 (Jul 19, 2010)

Because it's one of those many things that helps form the character, Fantasy. Just like background, race, education, era, orientation. It's all part of how a character perseives him/herself and about how other characters perceive him/her. 

I think we see more "Help! I'm a guy trying to wite a girl" threads because men find women confusing more often than lady writers are confused by men.


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## Fantasy of You (Jul 19, 2010)

But that's my point. Thinking you aren't qualified to write a woman because you aren't one is ridiculous, it's like the most strict adherence to 'write what you know' I've ever seen. People know people, they have friends and family and socialise. I know many women a lot more intimately than I know men (not sexually... the former doesn't float my boat). I don't see any 'how do I write as a baker, I'm a florist!' threads, or 'how do I write as a Pakistani,' do you?


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## 32rosie (Jul 19, 2010)

This is a tuffy. You could always pull inspiration and characteristics from women in your life. Maybe sit down in a busy area and people watch for a while to see how different people act.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 19, 2010)

Or just make it all up out of nowhere.

Or change a male character to female to work the plot out better.  Nobody's ever done that?


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## caelum (Jul 19, 2010)

That's where those androgynous names come in handy.  Kelly, Jamie, Alex, Morgan, Ashton, Bill, Steve, Brittany.  Those kinds of names.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 19, 2010)

And the capri pants and tunics and kimonos and such.


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## seigfried007 (Jul 19, 2010)

Fantasy of You said:


> But that's my point. Thinking you aren't qualified to write a woman because you aren't one is ridiculous, it's like the most strict adherence to 'write what you know' I've ever seen. People know people, they have friends and family and socialise. I know many women a lot more intimately than I know men (not sexually... the former doesn't float my boat). I don't see any 'how do I write as a baker, I'm a florist!' threads, or 'how do I write as a Pakistani,' do you?


 
Florist and baker threads go into "Research" ;-)

People are far more likely to write the other gender than they are to be of any specific looking for help on another specific (Straight female Pakistani Spanish teacher looking for help writing gay male American hot-rodder/dentist with two small dogs)


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 19, 2010)

> (Straight female Pakistani Spanish teacher looking for help writing gay  male American hot-rodder/dentist with two small dogs)



That sounds more like calls for low budget screenplays


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