# No bullying here



## wainscottbl (Oct 20, 2014)

I understand on the internet you should have thick skin, especially if you go into a politics part of a message board, but many of those forums prove what jerks and idiots people can be. For example I posted on a  certain topic in a certain forum and I get complete ad hominem attacks. And worse I get "stalked". Someone googles my name and points out all this stuff about me. I like that here that there is none of that. Yeah thick skin is important, but it's not so much about being offended as wanting to take the jerk and bang their head against the wall or something. 

Person 1: I think President Pantsonfire made a mistake on such and such a policy.
Person 2: You're a poopy pants! 


Again, message boards will be message boards. But I'm glad there's none of that nonsense here.


----------



## Bishop (Oct 20, 2014)

We're all glad there's none of that here! That's why we're here!


----------



## Deleted member 56686 (Oct 20, 2014)

Well on rare occasions I have seen it flare up here, but it always tends to get shouted down, so to speak. Most of us just don't put up with it.


----------



## MzSnowleopard (Oct 20, 2014)

IMO that "need a thick skin" is BS- it's just a means to excuse bad behavior. Whatever happened to "treat people as you want to be treated"?


----------



## dale (Oct 20, 2014)

jesus. you people are idiots.


----------



## Sam (Oct 20, 2014)

MzSnowleopard said:


> IMO that "need a thick skin" is BS- it's just a means to excuse bad behavior. Whatever happened to "treat people as you want to be treated"?



No, "need a thick skin" is very pertinent advice for anyone who wants to do well in the writing industry. The people who use it to justify bad behaviour are usually trolls.

As for the OP: both the members and the staff won't tolerate nonsense.


----------



## dale (Oct 20, 2014)

dale said:


> jesus. you people are idiots.



this, of course, was a joke. but there are so many levels as to what people find offensive nowadays. i tend just not to pay attention to
it anymore. i would never purposely troll or try to "hurt" a serious well-meaning person. i think the term "bullying" has gotten WAY out of hand nowadays.
maybe it's generational. when i was in school? how you dealt with a bully was finally getting the courage up to bust him him in the mouth. you
may have gotten your ass kicked? but he left you alone after that. i don't like how EVERYTHING can be considered "bullying" nowadays. it's nonsense.


----------



## Bruno Spatola (Oct 20, 2014)

Oh, go home and cry to your momma, four eyes. (Joking, of course.)

Anonymity can turn the average Joe into a belligerent sociopath. In real life, there's often repercussions for things that you say; there's always the possibility of someone bigger and braver and smarter than you chiming in, or taking you down. You'll find that they're probably more sensitive than you are, though -- that's why they use abuse, because it creates a wall for them to hide behind. On the internet, you already have a digital wall there, so you feel even more empowered by the fact that no-one can put a stop to what you're saying. More powerful than they've ever felt before, perhaps. The ability to take control like that, of a conversation you might not even feel strongly about, or the thrill of shutting someone down through shear force of words, can be like a drug.

Some people just get passionate during debates, of course, which is more understandable, but not quite the same thing. I've been known to get pretty agitated talking about something I love, but it's never abusive, or aimed. Ripping someone apart verbally is rarely justified, but when you justify something to yourself, you'd be surprised what you're capable of saying. I think you _have_ to lie to yourself to behave like some do on the internet, otherwise you'd have to stop it.

I'm not a neuroscientist, so this is all bullshizzle, but the person on the other side of that conversation isn't always what you might think, and that makes me feel better when someone tries their hardest to get a reaction from me.


----------



## wainscottbl (Oct 20, 2014)

Yep. Well said. Besides what can you expect on most message boards. This one is different because it is a writing message board. Sure one can be nasty about someone's writing but not here, at least not for long. Say what you think is wrong but be constructive.


----------



## Firemajic (Oct 20, 2014)

dale said:


> jesus. you people are idiots.


  Ha haaaa! didnt think that was funny until I read your 2nd post--I almost felt bullied,.:shock: [lol] Peace...Jul


----------



## Mistique (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm glad there is nothing like that here, too. It wasn't always like that here though. I've been around a bit longer and personal attacks happened more often a few years back. I think that the way the site gets moderated - yes, that is a compliment to the mods  - makes a big difference.


----------



## Seedy M. (Oct 20, 2014)

The bulliers are generally just frustrated people. Most writers know what frustration is (Send it _again_! This is eleven rejections already!) and don't react to them much - except to pity them a bit.


----------



## dale (Oct 20, 2014)

Mistique said:


> I'm glad there is nothing like that here, too. It wasn't always like that here though. I've been around a bit longer and personal attacks happened more often a few years back. I think that the way the site gets moderated - yes, that is a compliment to the mods  - makes a big difference.



  one time i was bullied here thru the PM system. a guy didn't like something i said and PM'd me and told me he was a member of the group "anonymous" and that he would track my computer and find me and do mean and nasty things to me. so i started crying and i told my mom. she hugged me and gave me a lollipop. (no. really i laughed at the idiot and called his mom a whore. for real.)


----------



## Deleted member 56686 (Oct 20, 2014)

I notice when I browse through some of the older posts, I see a lot of posts from various banned members, some with around a thousand or more posts. I have no doubt a lot has been done to make this a much friendlier place. I'm so glad I missed the "dark ages".


----------



## dale (Oct 20, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> I notice when I browse through some of the older posts, I see a lot of posts from various banned members, some with around a thousand or more posts. I have no doubt a lot has been done to make this a much friendlier place. I'm so glad I missed the "dark ages".



there used to be a "debate" section here. where people could argue about politics or whatever. it could be fun, but it really didn't have any place here.


----------



## InstituteMan (Oct 20, 2014)

All very true. I have left boards because the sniping and arguing and debating made identifying the useful information too painful. Fortunately, I think that we have a little bit of positive momentum around here: WF administration has done their level best to set out some fairly clear rules and the staff has done their level best to follow them, with the result being that people who totally live to cause trouble don't find the place much fun, which makes it easier to apply the rules, rinse, lather, repeat.

Yes, developing think skin for legitimate criticism is important. Developing thick skin for pointless nonsense is . . . unfortunately sometimes necessary, but not something I think _should _​be necessary.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 20, 2014)

I miss the debates. It was a bit of a slam pit, but then I liked slam pits. Not the bullying... I mean some people got out of hand, but when you could make a logical argument, or a point out hypocrisy or arrogance, it was fun to express one's self... kind of challenge to get your point across, clearly. Plus, you were often under attack. You had to keep your cool or risk, you know...  It was all practice for me, a form of writing practice. This was all after the dark ages. Never saw any of that.


----------



## wainscottbl (Oct 20, 2014)

Yeah. I like some arguing but ad hominem and bashing gets rather annoying. Not so much hurting offensive as just annoyingly offensive. Turning the argument into a back and forth insult game. And usually someone, sometimes the wrong person, gets reprimanded, because led into it, they lash out. Arguing passionately is one thing. Then there's just destroying the arguments by personal attacks and all sorts of fallacies. Obstinately refusing to hear the other point of view but simply attacking it even though the person is making a coherent point. Sort of like the game Bill O'Rilley plays. Or most of those news outlet interviews. I've even felt bad for that white nationalist David Duke:

[video=youtube;m1IMqukmPAw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1IMqukmPAw[/video]

Keeps mentioned the KKK thing and being an overall bully. Is O'Rilley trying to prove how not racist he is or just being his typical self.


----------



## Firemajic (Oct 20, 2014)

dale said:


> one time i was bullied here thru the PM system. a guy didn't like something i said and PM'd me and told me he was a member of the group "anonymous" and that he would track my computer and find me and do mean and nasty things to me. so i started crying and i told my mom. she hugged me and gave me a lollipop. (no. really i laughed at the idiot and called his mom a whore. for real.)


    :coffeescreenale--really???:rofl:

good for you!


----------



## dale (Oct 20, 2014)

Firemajic said:


> :coffeescreenale--really???:rofl:
> 
> good for you!



 lol. yeah. really. and to be honest, i really didn't say anything that out of line to the guy in the public discussion. i just asked him a question. he got all bent over it. you meet all kinds on the internet. some really unstable people. i think sometimes people take me as unstable as a 1st impression, until they get to know me and know that most everything i say has a sense of humor to it. but this dude was serious. i've met his type before on political forums, though. so yeah.


----------



## Plasticweld (Oct 20, 2014)

I have always run with the policy that good men are well loved and well hated.  To be luke warm or moderate is the lowest form of an insult.  


I expect to be hated for what I stand for, because I actually stand for a lot of stuff.  You can be polite, you can be tolerate.  At the same time if you believe that something is truly wrong and you say nothing, who have you appeased?  

It is nice to be in a friendly atmosphere and I never take that for granted, but there are time when I read things by some of the writers here, that make me see red... I hurt those people with the weapon that hurts writers more than anything else....*Silence... *I have not always be well disciplined, but I am getting better :}


----------



## Mistique (Oct 21, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> I notice when I browse through some of the older posts, I see a lot of posts from various banned members, some with around a thousand or more posts. I have no doubt a lot has been done to make this a much friendlier place. I'm so glad I missed the "dark ages".



Yes, they were a bit like 'dark ages'. I know that at the time I more or less kept my head down as I don't have a thick skin. I am fine with anybody giving constructive critisism of my work. Hell, they can even just hate it or give not so constructive critisism. But personal attacks... they hurt me. I don't know how others develop a 'thick skin' for that, but its something I just don't have. The way some people were attacking others back then made me feel unsafe so I wrote with co-writers in social groups and kept away from public forums mostly. Now that is completely different. I feel the support people feel for each other, I love joking around with others and I even 'dare' give an opinion here and there.


----------



## Pidgeon84 (Oct 21, 2014)

This thread is such a nerd! Gimme your lunch money!


----------



## Mistique (Oct 21, 2014)

Pidgeon84 said:


> This thread is such a nerd! Gimme your lunch money!



*Throws a tuna sandwich at pidgeon*

Is that what you meant?

*Smiles innocently*


----------



## Firemajic (Oct 21, 2014)

Mistique--you" dared" to give an opinion ? [lol]  Woooooow--I have not been brave enough to do that ---yet... :icon_shaking:


----------



## Pidgeon84 (Oct 21, 2014)

Mistique said:


> *Throws a tuna sandwich at pidgeon*
> 
> Is that what you meant?
> 
> *Smiles innocently*



Well, I do love a good tuna sandwich ^_^


----------



## Mistique (Oct 21, 2014)

Pidgeon84 said:


> Well, I do love a good tuna sandwich ^_^



Then tuna it is: 



- - - Updated - - -



Firemajic said:


> Mistique--you" dared" to give an opinion ? [lol]  Woooooow--I have not been brave enough to do that ---yet... :icon_shaking:



Oh, I got a funny feeling you can handle that just fine


----------



## TKent (Oct 21, 2014)

Thank goodness it has changed here (although if it hadn't I wouldn't be spending so much darned time here and could get some writing done!!!).

 Bullying comes in all shapes,sizes,flavors. The thought that someone's words kept your delightful presence quiet in the past is but one of the fallouts... thick-skin is good, but hopefully it's only needed to protect our fragile egos when honest/thoughtful criticism about our work touches that defensive place inside us all. 

I hate when its needed to protect us from rude personal attacks 



> Yes, they were a bit like 'dark ages'. I know that at the time I more or less kept my head down as I don't have a thick skin. I am fine with anybody giving constructive critisism of my work. Hell, they can even just hate it or give not so constructive critisism. But personal attacks... they hurt me. I don't know how others develop a 'thick skin' for that, but its something I just don't have. The way some people were attacking others back then made me feel unsafe so I wrote with co-writers in social groups and kept away from public forums mostly. Now that is completely different. I feel the support people feel for each other, I love joking around with others and I even 'dare' give an opinion here and there.


----------



## Mistique (Oct 21, 2014)

TKent said:


> Thank goodness it has changed here (although if it hadn't I wouldn't be spending so much darned time here and could get some writing done!!!).
> 
> Bullying comes in all shapes,sizes,flavors. The thought that someone's words kept your delightful presence quiet in the past is but one of the fallouts... thick-skin is good, but hopefully it's only needed to protect our fragile egos when honest/thoughtful criticism about our work touches that defensive place inside us all.
> 
> I hate when its needed to protect us from rude personal attacks



Thank you, that was very kind of you to say. Even in those 'dark ages' I still stuck around so WF clearly is something special. At it worst its worth sticking around for - as the individual members made it worth it - but at its best it has a creativity all of its own that goes beyond individual members. WF at its best is someone like Pandora.


----------



## midnightpoet (Oct 21, 2014)

There have been many times I have not agreed with opinions on this forum, but i never have seen the point of arguing about it.  All it does is start pi$$ing contests and gets nowhere.  This is a professional forum, and members should respect  each other, even when we don't agree.  I've been on other forums that argue all the time, especially politics and religion.  All they do is snipe at each other.  So yeah, I'm glad this forum is like it is, thanks to the mods.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 21, 2014)

There's arguing and then there's arguing... for instance, I could tell you that your ice plant is creeping, and you could say it's draped, at which point I would have to pick up all my jacks and simply go home. *sniff*


----------



## dale (Oct 21, 2014)

do people still even play jacks?


----------



## Guy Faukes (Oct 21, 2014)

wainscottbl said:


> I understand on the internet you should have thick skin, especially if you go into a politics part of a message board, but many of those forums prove what jerks and idiots people can be. For example I posted on a  certain topic in a certain forum and I get complete ad hominem attacks. And worse I get "stalked". Someone googles my name and points out all this stuff about me. I like that here that there is none of that. Yeah thick skin is important, but it's not so much about being offended as wanting to take the jerk and bang their head against the wall or something.



Oh yeah? Well, you're a poopy pants!

Kidding, kidding. It depends on where you are online, but if you respond civilly and take patience, generally, people open up and explain themselves. The odd bigot or loudmouth will always be a stick in the conversational mud.


----------



## TKent (Oct 21, 2014)

> WF at its best is someone like Pandora.


----------



## tepelus (Oct 21, 2014)

When I first joined this forum this place was a hot mess of people ripping into each other and swearing, to the point I was afraid to post much and took much of the advice with the tiniest grain of salt. I left for another forum and didn't come back for a few years. When I did I found that order had been put in place and the membership was much smaller than it had been, and it was much more peaceful. I had even gotten a PM from a mod for posting a Hemingway quote that had the "s" word in it and was told no swearing was tolerated on this site because of the younger members, and they changed the "s" word into symbols on my behalf. I thought that was a bit extreme, but whatever. Now I see lately that the no swearing policy that was very strict a couple of years ago is being more lenient, but the posters on this forum are still very respectful with each other. Hope it stays that way. I now can believe the advice on this forum to be more true because it is much more civil than it was way back then.


----------



## dither (Oct 21, 2014)

MzSnowleopard said:


> IMO that "need a thick skin" is BS- it's just a means to excuse bad behavior. Whatever happened to "treat people as you want to be treated"?




Absolutely.


----------



## TKent (Oct 21, 2014)

That reminds me, it's lunch time.  Dang that looks good.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 21, 2014)

I think 'thick skin' referred to is more about being able to take criticism of your piece (which might reference one's writing abilities, and therefor shatter one's ego into a million screaming, crying, weeping, dejected little pieces...)


----------



## Firemajic (Oct 21, 2014)

Mistique said:


> Then tuna it is:
> 
> View attachment 6718
> 
> ...


  Maybe,, I could write something really scathing--and THEN --NOT sign it...yea..yeah, that's what I could do!  :cower: [lol]


----------



## Mistique (Oct 21, 2014)

Firemajic said:


> Maybe,, I could write something really scathing--and THEN --NOT sign it...yea..yeah, that's what I could do!  :cower: [lol]



Yes, and since we all like you so much we will pretend not to know it was yours :grin:

- - - Updated - - -

Now honestly would you all please stop posting a copy of that tuna sandwich. It's got me dying for one and I don't have any tuna. I am in the middle or working on the script of my book so I don't have the time to go to the shop. Don't make me go! *glares at everyone*


----------



## dither (Oct 21, 2014)

How does the word  "decorum" grab you?

Will that do?


----------



## Jeko (Oct 21, 2014)

'Thick skin' is more about handling bad behaviour than allowing it. The mods will (very effectively) clean up the crap; it's up to the rest of us to not stoop to that level. Fortunately, that level rarely makes a scene on this forum.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 21, 2014)

Fish wrapped in newspaper with a side of chips... mm-boy


----------



## dale (Oct 21, 2014)

TKent said:


> That reminds me, it's lunch time.  Dang that looks good.



stop it. you're from the south. if you're gonna have a fish sandwich....at least have a tasty one.....


----------



## Mistique (Oct 21, 2014)

dale said:


> stop it. you're from the south. if you're gonna have a fish sandwich....at least have a tasty one.....
> 
> View attachment 6719



Now you are just being mean! I am being bullied with food!!!!

- - - Updated - - -



Kevin said:


> Fish wrapped in newspaper with a side of chips... mm-boy



*Glares at Kevin*

I meant you too!!!!


----------



## Seedy M. (Oct 21, 2014)

You can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish. (Hint about something on another thread a few days ago.) Thanks for the intro for this!
Now! You will pay close attention to me or you will regret it! And don't think you're going to be able to run home to Mama!


----------



## Firemajic (Oct 21, 2014)

Mistique said:


> Yes, and since we all like you so much we will pretend not to know it was yours :grin:
> 
> Awwwww---Thanks!
> 
> - - - Updated - - -


----------



## E. Zamora (Oct 21, 2014)

i wasn't exactly called a bully, but I've been chastised on another forum for using the c-word.*

*cliche


----------



## Mistique (Oct 21, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> i wasn't exactly called a bully, but I've been chastised on another forum for using the c-word.*
> 
> *cliche



Tss, tsss, tssss, naughty naughty!

:icon_cheesygrin:


----------



## E. Zamora (Oct 21, 2014)

If you ever write a poem, and I say that something is "expected," then you know what I really mean.


----------



## dale (Oct 21, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> If you ever write poem, and I say that something is "expected," then you know what I really mean.


ha ha. all poets think EVERYONE is a bully.


----------



## E. Zamora (Oct 21, 2014)

I don't see very much of that here, but there is a lot of truth to that. Because to some people, poetry is all about the expression of true feelings, and therefore, it is beyond critique. 

I like this Oscar Wilde quote:

“All bad poetry springs from genuine feeling. To be natural is to be obvious, and to be obvious is to be inartistic.” 

Probably an overstatement, but hey, it's Oscar Wilde.


----------



## BryanJ62 (Oct 21, 2014)

*Years ago - I believe it was the 40th anniversary of JFK's assassination - I got on a board discussing this topic. Without getting into details I stated my opinion, argued my opinion, received threats through the board and one on the phone and was asked by the board's owner to go away. I learned my lesson on that one.*


----------

