# 600-page Fatwa



## Teve Torbes (Mar 3, 2010)

Here's something interesting.  A "respected" Islamic leader has produced a 600-page Fatwa, in which terrorism and suicide bombing is condemned.  Apparently he cites numerous sources that are centuries old in order to support his position.  I'm assuming that the Qur'an is not among them, since it specifically states that non-believing _non-Muslims_ are fair game.  But whatever the case, here's the real kicker: this guy lives in hiding somewhere in Ontario, Canada because he fears retaliation from people who disagree with him.   

Islamization Watch: Determined Islamic leader issues 600 page fatwa against suicide bombings


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## The Backward OX (Mar 4, 2010)

Now watch all the little knee-jerks react to this post with comments of their own and inspire the OP to keep the thread going. Fools, all of you, if you do. Do what I do, and ignore it.


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## Mike C (Mar 4, 2010)

Sorry Ox, I can't help myself...



Teve Torbes said:


> A "respected" Islamic leader



Wht the inverted commas? He's either respected, or he's not.



Teve Torbes said:


> has produced a 600-page Fatwa, in which terrorism and suicide bombing is condemned.



Is that in some way unusual? Most Islamic leaders will actually agree with him. Radical fundamentalists actually make up a tiny fraction of Islam. I suspect you'll find more christians in favour of (governments) bombing the shit out of Muslim civilians than you will Muslims who support terrorism.



Teve Torbes said:


> I'm assuming that the Qur'an is not among them, since it specifically states that non-believing _non-Muslims_ are fair game.



I'm guessing you've not read the Qu'ran, or the many subsequent Hadiths. It specifically does not state anything of the kind.


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## ash somers (Mar 4, 2010)

Teve Torbes said:


> Here's something interesting.  A "respected" Islamic leader has produced a 600-page Fatwa, in which terrorism and suicide bombing is condemned.  Apparently he cites numerous sources that are centuries old in order to support his position.  I'm assuming that the Qur'an is not among them, since it specifically states that non-believing _non-Muslims_ are fair game.  But whatever the case, here's the real kicker: this guy lives in hiding somewhere in Ontario, Canada because he fears retaliation from people who disagree with him.
> 
> Islamization Watch: Determined Islamic leader issues 600 page fatwa against suicide bombings




it might be of interest to you, but it's boring the fuck out of me 

transparent as glass looking at the moon; pity about the clouds


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## Teve Torbes (Mar 4, 2010)

Mike C said:


> I'm guessing you've not read the Qu'ran, or the many subsequent Hadiths. It specifically does not state anything of the kind.



Don't tell me you're _denying_ that the Qur'an specifically states that violence can/should be used against non-believers.  Let's not even go down that road.  Certainly if _you've_ read the Qur'an, you'd know that it really does.


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## Teve Torbes (Mar 4, 2010)

It may also be of interest to know that in 2004, for example, 41% of Muslims in Pakistan believed that the use of suicide bombing against _civilians_ was "justified".


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## ash somers (Mar 4, 2010)

teves, if you insist on continuing with your obsession here at writing forums of all things islam, muslim and wankan, please provide citations to your rhetorical propoganda - i would then have something to go on, rather than it coming across as just an opinion - thanks


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## Sam (Mar 4, 2010)

ash somers said:


> teves, if you insist on continuing with your obsession here at writing forums of all things islam, muslim and wankan, please provide citations to your rhetorical propoganda - i would then have something to go on, rather than it coming across as just an opinion - thanks



How about: Don't feed the troll?


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## Teve Torbes (Mar 10, 2010)

ash somers said:


> teves, if you insist on continuing with your obsession here at writing forums of all things islam, muslim and wankan, please provide citations to your rhetorical propoganda - i would then have something to go on, rather than it coming across as just an opinion - thanks



Your post demonstrates the general problem that the general public seems to have when understanding Islam.  The information is readily available.  It comes from a major research study that you could easily find yourself.  Yet you deny that it's the truth, which I guess makes your life easier because it gives you the liberty to deny what is going on around you.  Because of Islam, our rights have been steadily eroding and are increasingly at risk from domestic terrorism.  Twenty years ago, the idea that Islamic terrorists could launch a major attack against North America was the stuff of pulp fiction.  It is now a reality, and will now always be a matter of _when_ not _if_.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 10, 2010)

I used plastic wrap to air-tight seal my house so when the chemical attack comes I'll be ready.  I also always wear a parachute when in tall buildings.

Oh, and I converted my swimming pool into a fallout bunker.  It's stocked with plenty of Chinese toothpaste and dog food.  And Pringles.


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## Sam (Mar 10, 2010)

I took my digger out the other day with the intention of digging the foundation for a septic tank, but when it came time for a tea break, I started reading an article on the proximity of Islamic terrorists to Ireland. So frightening was it that I immediately jumped up from the table and set about converting my foundation for the septic tank into one for a fallout shelter. It is a work-in-progress. 

I am also in the process of purchasing five thousand boxes of MREs, two thousand bottles of Tipperary spring water (which is about as natural as the stuff that comes from my tap), and several back-issues of Playboy. 

In the event of nuclear war, I shall be utterly safe in my ersatz bunker constructed with a lock of bricks I stole from the last building site I frequented. Should bombs be dropped in or around my vicinity, I shall stick my head between my legs and kiss my arse goodbye, knowing that I have Teve Torbes' warning to thank for saving me from Islamic extremists, only to have my arse blown to bits by a stray bomb.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 10, 2010)

> I took my digger out the other day with the intention of digging the  foundation for a septic tank, but when it came time for a tea break, I  started reading an article on the proximity of Islamic terrorists to  Ireland. So frightening was it that I immediately jumped up from the  table and set about converting my foundation for the septic tank into  one for a fallout shelter. It is a work-in-progress.



Good call.  The chances of terrorists setting off a nuke in Ireland are much higher than the chances of you using the bathroom.


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## JosephB (Mar 10, 2010)

Teve, it’s a no-brainer that a  small faction of Islam does pose some threat as far as terrorism is concerned. I think most of us here are aware of that, and believe our respective governments should exercise due diligence -- react appropriately without over reacting – and in a way that doesn’t infringe on the rights of citizens. I’m sure we could all have a lively discussion about just how we should be going about that -- how much is enough, how much is too much, etc. 

Does anyone here think radical Islam poses absolutely no threat? I don’t think so. The thing is, I don’t think anyone here gives a shit what you have to say about it. You’ve got some agenda to push, although you’ve never said outright what it is. I don’t think you’ve even once said specifically what you think our governments or any of us should be doing differently – not that I care what your opinion is at this point. You’ve just railed against Islam in general. And any idiot can do that.

Personally, I try to stay informed and keep things in perspective. That doesn’t  mean I don’t take the threat of radical Islam seriously. I just don’t take you seriously. And it should be pretty clear by now that not many other folks here do either. So, I'm suggesting that you quit wasting your time here with this issue -- and go bark up some other tree.

P.S. -- I've smashed all my Cat Stevens CD's, if that makes you feel better.


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## The Backward OX (Mar 11, 2010)

Maybe, as someone else suggested, he really is Truth Teller in disguise. It's a similar voice.


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## The Backward OX (Mar 11, 2010)

Sam, what's a lock of bricks?


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## NaClmine (Mar 11, 2010)

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Teves.  You are setting the perfect atmosphere for the release of my new book . . . _Jihad: God Pisses on America_. Spread the word, buddy. Now, if only I can get conservative talk radio to mention the novel. I need lots of frightened people to buy the story. Hmmm . . . free copies to Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck? Yeah, that's my marketing plan. LOL

(For non-US members, those three celebrities have huge followings in my country for their right-wing, scare-tactic musings.)


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## NaClmine (Mar 11, 2010)

double post . . . and on one click


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## Sam (Mar 11, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Sam, what's a lock of bricks?



It's an Irish-ism, OX. A lock of spuds, a lock of carrots, a lock of money for the weekend. It means a small amount of something.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 11, 2010)

Interesting.  I wonder how that relates to a "lock" of hair as far as origins are concerned.  I'm guessing one came from the other.

NaCl: Did you hear Rush claim he'll leave the country if Obama's healthcare passes?  Whoopie!  But wait...who will make fun of people with Parkinson's if Rush isn't around?


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## Sam (Mar 11, 2010)

I think it comes from a "lock" of hair, yeah. 

What's the story with Obama's healthcare plan? Is it any different from the current one?


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 11, 2010)

I don't know the details about it.  I pretty much quit paying attention to all that when they said there would be no public option and the Republicans kept killing it.  But apparently he's going to force his plan through (whatever that is) with some special act of Congress or something like that.  That's why all the conservative nut jobs are going crazy.


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## Teve Torbes (Mar 16, 2010)

JosephB said:


> Teve, it’s a no-brainer that a  small faction of Islam does pose some threat as far as terrorism is concerned. I think most of us here are aware of that, and believe our respective governments should exercise due diligence -- react appropriately without over reacting – and in a way that doesn’t infringe on the rights of citizens. I’m sure we could all have a lively discussion about just how we should be going about that -- how much is enough, how much is too much, etc.
> 
> Does anyone here think radical Islam poses absolutely no threat? I don’t think so. The thing is, I don’t think anyone here gives a shit what you have to say about it. You’ve got some agenda to push, although you’ve never said outright what it is. I don’t think you’ve even once said specifically what you think our governments or any of us should be doing differently – not that I care what your opinion is at this point. You’ve just railed against Islam in general. And any idiot can do that.
> 
> ...



The only impression that I get is that there are people who simply don't want to accept the reality of the situation; they would rather tolerate and passively condone the Islamification of North America, if not the world, so that they can go on with their lifestyle (which Islam will eventually undermine anyway) and supposedly save themselves from being what liberals dread most: "bigots" (which they are anyway), "hypocrites" (which they are anyway), "intolerant" (which the definitely are anyway).  

Twenty years ago, Canada had at most 100,000 Muslims, now we're close to 1.1 million.  By no coincidence whatsoever, during the last 20 years we've seen a number of terrorist cells emerge, radical clerics are now residing here, moques and Islamic schools are proliferating, Muslim "intellectuals" are hijacking social issues debates, political riding associations are being dominated by Muslims, issues about hijabs, niqabs, and burkas have arisen, we've had honor-killings, attacks against Jews have steadily increased, Churches are being fire-bombed, etc. etc. 

People just don't get it that Islam is different, and they're just exploiting the current western obsession with liberalism and tolerance to spread and conquer.  They may not quite do it like they used to, but the agenda is clearly still there.


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## Teve Torbes (Mar 16, 2010)

NaClmine said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you, Teves.  You are setting the perfect atmosphere for the release of my new book . . . _Jihad: God Pisses on America_. Spread the word, buddy. Now, if only I can get conservative talk radio to mention the novel. I need lots of frightened people to buy the story. Hmmm . . . free copies to Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck? Yeah, that's my marketing plan. LOL
> 
> (For non-US members, those three celebrities have huge followings in my country for their right-wing, scare-tactic musings.)



Well, that is kind of funny, although I of course know what you're really getting at.  But still, it does help demonstrate the kind of disconnect that seems to be afflicting many people: somehow speaking the truth about certain issues can be conveniently swept aside by labeling it "fear-mongering".  The fact of the matter is that all of my sources are really in the mainstream and academic field; I look at the discourse from those sources alone on the history of Islam and manner in which it (is) spread(ing) and derive my conclusions from them.  But of course it's easy for some anonymous numbnut on a message board to reduce all of this with sweeping generalizations like "right-wing, scare-tactic musings" etc.  It's all apart of avoiding the reality of the situation.  Which is what liberals seem to excell at, it seems.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 17, 2010)

We certainly don't have any muslim invasion problems down here in America or Mexico.


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## NaClmine (Mar 17, 2010)

Teve, you thought I was kidding! LOL  The title was made up but the story is real.

You guys are going to love my new book. It's at the FBI's Office of Pre-Publication Review right now awaiting their blessing because the story tells about a fictional bio-weapon attack against the west. It uses contemporary geo-political events, college level bio-chem science and it defeats current anti-terrorism procedures to kill thousands. The FBI is concerned because one chapter gives a detailed picture of current airport security and a simple/effective way to bypass it. Another chapter outlines steps for building a low-tech lab to replicate a lethal virus and it even tells the names of commercial companies where necessary lab equipment can be purchased "for academic" purposes. I hope the book gets published while fear of terrorism is still at a peak. Please keep up the fear mongering so this capitalist pig can wallow at the $$$ trough! LOL


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## The Backward OX (Mar 18, 2010)

NaClmine said:


> ...one chapter gives a detailed picture of current airport security and a simple/effective way to bypass it. Another chapter outlines steps for building a low-tech lab to replicate a lethal virus and it even tells the names of commercial companies where necessary lab equipment can be purchased for "academic" purposes.


 
If this one author can dream up this frightening scenario, just imagine for a moment what must be going on in the minds of whackos the world over. In theory, we could all be sitting on a planet-sized volcano that’s waiting to blow.


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## Mike C (Mar 18, 2010)

Islam really doesn't have to do anything to take over the world, except wait.

If Islam keeps growing at the rate it is now, you guys will eventually have to accept the possibility of a Muslim president in about 50 years from now. 

Civilisations rise, civilisations fall, history works like the ebbing and flowing of a tide. Once Islam was the most powerful force on the planet. Then it was Christianity. Next...  Ebb and flow.


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## NaClmine (Mar 18, 2010)

My book is not about Islam. Muslim extremists are merely a conduit for telling a story. Substitute any extremist faction for "Muslim" and the same scenario can play out. The IRA could release a deadly virus in London. The Aleph organization in Japan could attack centers of population. Hamas, the New People's Army in the Phillipines, PLO, Tamil Liberation Army . . . and many more . . . could/would use such a weapon against their perceived enemies. Even inside the United States, there are extremist organizations that might introduce a bio-weapon. All these radical groups have common motivation. They feel they have no other avenue for espressing their agenda. They feel oppressed, even hated, and they have no hope that things will ever change. This produces extremists, willing to kill or be killed, as they interact with a world or government that is hostile to their POV.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 18, 2010)

Now that water and baby milk aren't allowed on planes, I highly doubt anyone would be able to commit a terror act in the US - nay, the world!


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## JosephB (Mar 19, 2010)

Dr. Malone said:


> Now that water and baby milk aren't allowed on planes, I highly doubt anyone would be able to commit a terror act in the US - nay, the world!



Yes, but underwear is still allowed -- so we shouldn't feel complacent.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 19, 2010)

You diabolical bastard.


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## NaClmine (Mar 19, 2010)

What if a plastic explosive was pressed into a condom mold, and after being rolled into storage form, sealed in a foil wrapper labeled The Big Bang by Trojan? This inconspicuous device could be carried in any man's wallet without detection. We could be screwed by Al Qaeda!


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 19, 2010)

Interesting.  Since plastic explosives are like 100x stronger than dynamite now, I guess that could work if they stuck the condom again the plane wall and blew a hole in the side.  But do they have remote detonators small enough to fit in a condom wrapper?  I'm guessing they would, but I don't know.  It would have to take a cell phone call for the trigger, or if not remote, on a timer.  That's a cool idea.


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## NaClmine (Mar 19, 2010)

Two wires attached to the battery in a cell phone could provide ample current to detonate the prophylactic. However, a single hole in the side of an airliner would hardly bring it down. Now, if you had three or four bad guys, all willing to give it up for Allah (martyrs-in-training), then you could blow the tail off a plane in flight. I just wouldn't want to be the martyr-wannabe who gets stuck with the Trojan labeled "small". LOL


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## The Backward OX (Mar 19, 2010)

NaClmine said:


> What if a plastic explosive was pressed into a condom mold, and after being rolled into storage form, sealed in a foil wrapper labeled The Big Bang by Trojan? This inconspicuous device could be carried in any man's wallet without detection. We could be screwed by Al Qaeda!


Plot Hole Alert!! 

Wouldn't the foil set off the airport metal detector?


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 19, 2010)

Ah.  I wasn't sure if a biggish (four feet round...something like that) hole would do it or not.  I've seen planes stay up in the movies with a big hole in the side, but I didn't know how realistic that was.  I guess all the stabilization technology they have would help the pilots deal with the drag and turbulence and all that.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I wasn't really considering how big commercial jets are.  I guess a four foot hole is pretty damn small in comparison to a 747.


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## The Backward OX (Mar 19, 2010)

NaClmine said:


> I just wouldn't want to be the martyr-wannabe who gets stuck with the Trojan labeled "small". LOL


That joke's got whiskers. It's been around since at least WWII


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## NaClmine (Mar 20, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Plot Hole Alert!!
> 
> Wouldn't the foil set off the airport metal detector?


 
So we make it plastic or coated paper so it looks like foil. Screw that plot hole! LOL

Are far as "whiskers", what do you expect from terorists who only recently shaved off their beards? LOL


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## JosephB (Mar 20, 2010)

Dr. Malone said:


> Ah.  I wasn't sure if a biggish (four feet round...something like that) hole would do it or not.  I've seen planes stay up in the movies with a big hole in the side, but I didn't know how realistic that was.  I guess all the stabilization technology they have would help the pilots deal with the drag and turbulence and all that.
> 
> EDIT: Now that I think about it, I wasn't really considering how big commercial jets are.  I guess a four foot hole is pretty damn small in comparison to a 747.



This plane actually came in for a landing:







Aloha Airlines Flight 243 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 20, 2010)

That's terrifying and amazing.  Can you imagine what a rush it would be to be sitting in one of those window seats with nothing around you, looking down at the ground?  I guess that would only be if they could keep their eyes open, though, which at 400-500mph I doubt they could.


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## Sam (Mar 20, 2010)

Dr. Malone said:


> That's terrifying and amazing.  Can you imagine what a rush it would be to be sitting in one of those window seats with nothing around you, looking down at the ground?  I guess that would only be if they could keep their eyes open, though, which at 400-500mph I doubt they could.



How the hell would they have lived? Half the middle section is gone. I dare say their oxygen masks were too. Pummelled by 400-mile winds? Damn, you ever get a windy day and it hits you straight in the mouth? Multiply that by about fifty! I'm surprised the seats stayed intact.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 20, 2010)

Yeah, I wouldn't have thought anyone near that hole would live, but the link says only a stewardess died (sucked out of the plane).  The rest were just injured.  So I don't know if that means there just happened to not be anybody in those seats or if it means the people seated there survived.  I have a hard time imagining that that entire section just happened to be empty.  Especially with 85 passengers on the plane.


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## Teve Torbes (May 2, 2010)

That you guys aren't all that bright has been more than proven, but seriously, I would have expected that you could have figured out why only the stewardess was sucked out of the plane.  The reason is so painfully obvious.  

Anyway, I'm wondering with all of you people seemingly having your heads permanently buried in the sand, whether you're aware of what happened in NYC last night?  Slowly but surely we are getting to the point where this will be a common occurrence...


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## JosephB (May 2, 2010)

Teve Torbes said:


> Anyway, I'm wondering with all of you people seemingly having your heads permanently buried in the sand, whether you're aware of what happened in NYC last night?  Slowly but surely we are getting to the point where this will be a common occurrence...



Yeah, the Yankees lost to the White Sox 7-6. But I wouldn't expect that to be too common. They're looking pretty good so far.


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## moderan (May 2, 2010)

True. Last I saw the Sox were down 12-zip. How 'bout them Cubs?


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## Farror (May 2, 2010)

> That you guys aren't all that bright has been more than proven, but seriously, I would have expected that you could have figured out why only the stewardess was sucked out of the plane. The reason is so painfully obvious.



Because... That's how the terrorists wanted it to happen?


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## Teve Torbes (May 3, 2010)

JosephB said:


> Yeah, the Yankees lost to the White Sox 7-6. But I wouldn't expect that to be too common. They're looking pretty good so far.


 
Sorry, but I fail to see the humor in this.  Actually, I think you're quite sick.


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## Baron (May 3, 2010)

The OP suggests that you think you might know who this respected Muslim leader is?  Could this be a reversal of your opinion expressed in other threads, I wonder?  As I'm in personal communication with the person you named I have to tell you that your assessment would be wrong in both cases.

This forum is aimed at published books and I suppose the book mentioned in the OP would fit into that category.  Perhaps you could tell us something about the book itself and allow that to be discussed rather than letting this thread follow its present course.


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## Teve Torbes (May 6, 2010)

What "assessment"?


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## Starlight (Sep 9, 2010)

I don't quite see your point, Tebe Torbes. As far as I can see, muslims are way more under pressure by the west than the other way around. Just look at Afqanistan or Iraq. Maybe you are not really aware of the crimes committed in Iraq but to me it is pretty obvious who is invading whose country.


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## garza (Sep 9, 2010)

Off topic, but a follow up to part of the discussion. Pan Am Flight 103 was brought down by a few ounces of Semtex hidden in a small portable radio. The Semtex blew a 20-inch hole in the outer wall of the forward cargo hold.

Teve Torbes - Can you give me the specific references in the Qur'an calling for the death of non-believers? I have a copy here, and anyone who does not have a copy can access your references at: 
Texts of Islam


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## garza (Sep 9, 2010)

Come now, Teve Torbes. If you are so confident, just show us sura, section, and lines, and let us see for ourselves. That should not be difficult, if, indeed, you have any idea what you are talking about.

I've taken my copy of the Qur'an down from the shelf and have it here by the computer, ready to look at whatever lines you cite.


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## The Backward OX (Sep 9, 2010)

garza - Might I suggest you look at the date of his post?

duuuuuh.


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## garza (Sep 9, 2010)

Ahrah, hmmm, yes, certainly. Jolly good. Point taken. 

Unfortunately I only looked at the date on most recent post, the one by Starlight.


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## Teve Torbes (Nov 6, 2010)

If you have a copy then you don't need me to answer the question...

one example is:

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"



garza said:


> Off topic, but a follow up to part of the discussion. Pan Am Flight 103 was brought down by a few ounces of Semtex hidden in a small portable radio. The Semtex blew a 20-inch hole in the outer wall of the forward cargo hold.
> 
> Teve Torbes - Can you give me the specific references in the Qur'an calling for the death of non-believers? I have a copy here, and anyone who does not have a copy can access your references at:
> Texts of Islam


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