# Copyright



## Tatham (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm seriously considering this before I head down the publishing route. I worry that exhibiting my work may lead to creative theft and all manners of knavery. What sort of method should I perform to legally copyright my work officially? And does it matter to editors and publishers that it's copyrighted? 

I've read easy ways, such as posting my work to myself; but I'm looking for a more official and cheap way to get it done that legally binds my material to me. I'm not just talking about an entire novel either (that included), but story and names too, for example (if that's possible). It'd really break my heart if, somewhere down the line, someone got inspired by my work too early in the game and used it successfully before I could.

Thanks


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## moderan (Sep 19, 2011)

It's really not a serious consideration. Your work is self-copyrighted the moment you write it-in the electronic world especially, the time and date are appended to it. There have been many discussions on these boards about that issue. They all tend to say fuhgeddaboutit.


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## Tatham (Sep 19, 2011)

I never knew that Word has proof of such things. I've always considered copyrighting my work as an enivitable period of the writing experience. So, really, you think I should forget the idea and just attack the editors and publishers head on without worrying about it?


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## moderan (Sep 19, 2011)

I think that to "attack the editors and publishers head on" would be exactly the wrong way to go about things. What you do is write/copyedit your manuscript until it's viable in your eyes, then get someone impartial to go over it, point out the stuff you missed, do it over again, then submit said finished ms. to agents. Let them get the work to publishers. It isn't a battle. It's a process. If your property is decent, you have a chance.
An agent will have an idea of what markets to submit your work to. 
Copyrights are a fledgling hobbyhorse.


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## Sam (Sep 19, 2011)

It's a common misconception among new writers. The chances of someone stealing your work, putting their name to it, and getting it published and becoming a millionaire is the same as the chances of winning the lottery. 

Yes, I would forget about it.


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## Bloggsworth (Sep 19, 2011)

Word keeps meticulous records of its own existance, so that it knows when you have been using the cheap _Home & Student Edition_ for professional output! If you right-click on a file name you will get this:




Which gives you all sorts of information including all the relevant dates you need to prove when you wrote it. If you wish to be safe from the Home & Student dilema you can copy and paste chapter by chapter from Word into OpenOffice, AbiWord or similar.


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## eraser (Sep 19, 2011)

Most newbies suffer from Golden Word Syndrome and fret about theft. Once they've been around the literary block a few times they realize how silly that is. It's very difficult selling writing, especially fiction. Nobody in their right mind is going to steal someone's work and then spend a couple of years pretending it's theirs while trying to sell it all over hell's half-acre.

Publishers don't appreciated receiving copyrighted work. There are ALWAYS changes, usually substantial ones, between the submitted work and the finished product. The time for copyrighting is when the final galleys have been returned to the publisher. That's when the work is engraved in stone (so to speak) and when copyrighting makes sense. (Plus, the publisher pays for it and does all the paperwork.)

As moderan noted, your focus should be on producing a salable work, not worrying about word thieves.

Good luck.


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## Bloggsworth (Sep 19, 2011)

eraser said:


> Publishers don't appreciated receiving copyrighted work. There are ALWAYS changes, usually substantial ones, between the submitted work and the finished product. The time for copyrighting is when the final galleys have been returned to the publisher. That's when the work is engraved in stone (so to speak) and when copyrighting makes sense. (Plus, the publisher pays for it and does all the paperwork.)
> 
> Good luck.



Copyright is free in the UK and most countries that recognise the principal (Not China). You can't copyright names or book/film/play titles. If you invent something and use it for the book title you can both copyright and trade-mark it - If for instance you wrote a book about a sport played up against the Berlin Wall and called the sport WallBall[SUP]® TM [/SUP]and registered it seperately as a trade mark....


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## Robdemanc (Sep 23, 2011)

Copyright is for the representation of an idea and exists the minute you create the work.   There is nothing official you can do to copyright work.   All you need do is back up your work periodically.  Then if you need to in the future you can prove you created the work.  I don't think you can copyright names though.


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## Sunflower (Sep 23, 2011)

*Copyright/Publishing Question*

Hi everyone.  I'm pretty new to this and have never had anything published before, or even submitted anything.  So I was wondering.  How does posting on this forum affect copyright issues and the chances of getting it published?  Also, does this apply only to parts of the actual story, or even to information about it--details, universe, plotline, characters, etc.?  

I was in the Workshop section and it looked like there was one thread that was protected but what about the ideas I post in the rest of the forum?


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## CFFTB (Sep 23, 2011)

Not sure how it is in UK, but in the US, anything you write in tangible form (print, disc, hard drive, on tape) is automatically yours once it's in that form. As far as _ideas, _those aren't copyrighted. The workshop thread is for members only, so it's not visible to anyone just surfing, & to anyone using search engines with terms that match any in your story. Really anything you post is posted with your moniker which is backed up by your profile & personal email address if there's ever a dispute, but if it really concerns you, just use the writer's workshop. But remember, ideas for a story cannot be copyrighted.


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## Sunflower (Sep 24, 2011)

OK, thanks.  I'm in the US, and I've heard that before, but since I'm planning to use a pen name, I wondered if there was more to it than that.  I've heard, too, that posting significant amounts of a story online will make traditional publishing harder because it will be regarded as "self-published" already.  Not sure of the accuracy of this, but as I'm only planning to post small portions, anyway, I doubt it will be an issue.


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## CFFTB (Sep 25, 2011)

Good point about the pen name, but more research would answer that question. As far as the posted portions of your story, I can understand how someone would consider it published if there are large blocks of it posted. Brings to mind short stories in magazines. But how can they really have a problem with simply posting portions of it to an internet forum _about writing_? If you make a deal with a publisher for the entire story, _after that _it belongs to them. They shouldn't have a problem with you posting to a forum about writing before the deal.


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## SeverinR (Sep 28, 2011)

> Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is createdin fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorshipimmediately becomes the property of the author who createdthe work. Only the author or those deriving their rights​through the author can rightfully claim copyright.
> 
> No publication or registration or other action​in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright.


http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.pdf

Just to make it official.

There is no perfect words guaranteed to make millions, so outside of school work(stealing work for a grade) few would consider stealing someones work. Its like stepping into a spotlight and stealing a lottery ticket.  Highly visible crime with the great possibility of no gain.


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## Vertigo (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm far more worried about being able to write something that might be worth stealing than the possibility of it ever being stolen.

I mean, you have to write the stupid novel to begin with, in order for it to be hijacked.


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## Phyllis (Sep 28, 2011)

Yes, as soon as you post it here, it's officially protected by copyright.  I like to put a little copyright notice under all my good stuff, though, just to remind anyone who might have sticky fingers that they'd be messing with someone who *cares*, and so might move on to steal elsewhere.  That is no guarantee, but it makes me *feel* safer anyway.


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## TheFuhrer02 (Sep 29, 2011)

There are already a lot of threads I think that ask this question. Having said that, I think I'd stick this thread so the new members can see this thread.


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## jayy (Sep 29, 2011)

Tahtham, if you can afford it, I say protect your intelectual property in 3 ways. 1) Have a large amount of material copywrited together as one huge book; however, do not tell prospective publishers that parts of it has been copywrited when you submit. You can allow a publisher to register another copywrite for a portion of this material once it is accepted. 2) Have this huge book on file with a lawyer, sealed and dated. 3)Send yourself a copy of this material, on disc and hard copy, and leave it sealed and dated. These good folks who have advised you otherwise are absolutely right in all they say, but I say there are many book thieves popping up that I read about and hear about on Twitter often, so the field is getting riskier for theft every day.


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## moderan (Sep 29, 2011)

Book theft is *really not an issue*. If you're reading about it on twitter-those folks are lying through their teeth. I haven't heard of an actual book-theft issue, *ever*, and I've been writing and submitting for almost 40 years.
Get over it.
Is there idea theft? Yes. That isn't the same thing. People suffer from a paucity of creativity and a fear of failure. Therefore they copy what seems to work.
There are mechanisms in place to deal with that.


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## jayy (Sep 29, 2011)

*moderan*: This is a sincere response not meant to antagonize you one bit. The folks on Twitter and on a couple of Yahoo Groups were very convincing and on Twitter were 3 accusations of different instances of book theft from apparently respected authors (Caitlin Kittredge was one) and people in the field and there was a publisher who admitted to stealing author's books and reselling them under her own name and she tried to excuse her behavior with a ridiculous arguement (this Twitter war went on for days); I saw this all on the net this year. Maybe it was all a joke, I have no real idea. 

The real reason I am reponding is that I am curious what mechanisms are in place to discourage idea theft. Seriously, this is an area of interest to me. I researched recently and found out in the US that derivitive works are prohibited and that's as far as I got. Toss me a link if you know of one that will fill me in, please. It's not extremely important, just something I would like to no more about, thanks.
Jay


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## moderan (Sep 29, 2011)

Sure. No antagonism perceived. Remember that where you heard that business was perhaps not the most reputable source for information of that kind.
Idea theft is very real. The idea of derivation is somewhat confused-that's why nothing that can be seen as fanfic can be posted on this website, for example.
There are thousands of hits in a casual googling of the term "idea theft". Might be worth a rainy-day look. I have one article that might interest you.


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## TheFuhrer02 (Sep 29, 2011)

As it was said numerous times in numerous threads here in WF and other writing forums I've been in with regards to theft: "There is no unique idea for a plot, only a unique way to narrate that idea."

I'm pretty sure every idea anyone of us here can conjure has already been written, at least in the spirit of the idea, by another man from another part of the world. The difference is the way you two wrote it.


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## Sunflower (Sep 30, 2011)

Yeah, I'll have to do a bit of research on the pen name.  *sigh*  Maybe I should  just chuck the idea and use my real name.  If it causes too many issues, I might.  

As for posting, I'm not sure how much is considered "significant."  I'm guessing a few pages here and there should be okay, but beyond that, I doubt I need to worry about it anyway.  I mean, I don't plan on posting chapter after chapter.  Haven't got time to read all your responses, anyway.   Going to school full time does NOT leave me much free time.


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## Steerpike (Oct 8, 2011)

One quick point about copyright and registration. It is true that in the U.S. you own the copyright in your work as soon as you put it down in a tangible medium of expression (paper, electronic, or whatever). To sue for infringement, however, you generally need to have registered the Copyright with the U.S. Copyright Office. And to go after certain damages when you sue, you need to have registered it within a certain time period after publication. Which doesn't mean you should run out and register everything you produce, but it is something to keep in mind for important works, particularly if you are self-publishing.


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## Steerpike (Oct 17, 2011)

Johnn3ie45 said:


> It's really not a serious consideration. Your work is self-copyrighted the moment you write it-in the electronic world especially, the time and date are appended to it. There have been many discussions on these boards about that issue. They all tend to say fuhgeddaboutit.
> http://daxibeidelang.teasm.cn/Index.aspx
> 
> 
> ...



It is definitely a serious consideration. You can't bring an infringement suit without it. And you give up some important damages if you don't do it soon enough. For an important work, it doesn't make sense not to do it, particularly given the costs.


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## Cran (Oct 18, 2011)

Sunflower said:


> Yeah, I'll have to do a bit of research on the pen name.  *sigh*  Maybe I should  just chuck the idea and use my real name.  If it causes too many issues, I might.
> 
> As for posting, I'm not sure how much is considered "significant."  I'm guessing a few pages here and there should be okay, but beyond that, I doubt I need to worry about it anyway.  I mean, I don't plan on posting chapter after chapter.  Haven't got time to read all your responses, anyway.   Going to school full time does NOT leave me much free time.



It doesn't matter whether you use a pseudonym (pen name) or your own name. If you created the work, and uploaded it anywhere, you will still have the original time-stamped version on your own computer or on portable data storage.


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## Deyo (Oct 30, 2011)

TheFuhrer02 said:


> As it was said numerous times in numerous threads here in WF and other writing forums I've been in with regards to theft: "There is no unique idea for a plot, only a unique way to narrate that idea."I'm pretty sure every idea anyone of us here can conjure has already been written, at least in the spirit of the idea, by another man from another part of the world. The difference is the way you two wrote it.


I think this is very true, my core ideas always seem cliche when I first look them. It's only once I put a lot of effort into developing the idea, into something more complex, that it becomes something unique.


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## ShatteredUniverse (Dec 31, 2011)

moderan said:


> I think that to "attack the editors and publishers head on" would be exactly the wrong way to go about things. What you do is write/copyedit your manuscript until it's viable in your eyes, then get someone impartial to go over it, point out the stuff you missed, do it over again, then submit said finished ms. to agents. Let them get the work to publishers. It isn't a battle. It's a process. If your property is decent, you have a chance.
> An agent will have an idea of what markets to submit your work to.
> Copyrights are a fledgling hobbyhorse.



Quite right. Being assertive without being presumptuous, especially in a highly competitive field like writing, is an art form.



Sam W said:


> It's a common misconception among new writers. The chances of someone stealing your work, putting their name to it, and getting it published and becoming a millionaire is the same as the chances of winning the lottery.
> 
> Yes, I would forget about it.



True. . . Unless you're posting vampire romance stories on FictionPress, you shouldn't have any problems. :thumbr:



Bloggsworth said:


> Word keeps meticulous records of its own existence, so that it knows when you have been using the cheap _Home & Student Edition_ for professional output! If you right-click on a file name you will get this:
> 
> Which gives you all sorts of information including all the relevant dates you need to prove when you wrote it. If you wish to be safe from the Home & Student dilema you can copy and paste chapter by chapter from Word into OpenOffice, AbiWord or similar.



Dear me. Windows tracks everything we do! Say it ain't so! 



eraser said:


> Most newbies suffer from Golden Word Syndrome and fret about theft. Once they've been around the literary block a few times they realize how silly that is. It's very difficult selling writing, especially fiction. Nobody in their right mind is going to steal someone's work and then spend a couple of years pretending it's theirs while trying to sell it all over hell's half-acre.
> 
> Publishers don't appreciate receiving copyrighted work. There are ALWAYS changes, usually substantial ones, between the submitted work and the finished product. The time for copyrighting is when the final galleys have been returned to the publisher. That's when the work is engraved in stone (so to speak) and when copyrighting makes sense. (Plus, the publisher pays for it and does all the paperwork.)
> 
> ...



Regestering a copyright has very little, if any, bearing on a publisher's consideration of a work. It _does_ look ameteur for a writer to send in a manuscript with a copyright notice on it, though. The reason behind this lies in the fact such notices don't fit standard submission guidelines (which screams 'ameteur!'), and they already know it's copyrighted to begin with.



Bloggsworth said:


> Copyright is free in the UK and most countries that recognise the principal (Not China). You can't copyright names or book/film/play titles. If you invent something and use it for the book title you can both copyright and trade-mark it - If for instance you wrote a book about a sport played up against the Berlin Wall and called the sport WallBall[SUP]® TM [/SUP]and registered it seperately as a trade mark....



We in the United States, however, must pay a fee for registering said copyright. *jealous*


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## ShatteredUniverse (Dec 13, 2014)

ShatteredUniverse said:


> Dear me. Windows tracks everything we do! Say it ain't so!



UPDATE: Windows 10 Technical Preview _literally_ tracks everything you do, right down to keystrokes.


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