# Using the name of a powerful family in fiction?



## Guy Faukes (Sep 28, 2014)

I'm writing about an alternate history where the Astor family migrate to another country and become prominent political figures within it. Would that be subject to libel or slander laws? Are there any rules we should follow when using prominent surnames or families in fiction?


----------



## hvysmker (Sep 28, 2014)

I think the idea is somewhat iffy.  If you don't slander them, they probably wouldn't mind. On the other hand, prominent figures are normally considered fair game.  I had a lot of fun lampooning our last President. Of course, I'm talking about in the US.

Then, it might depend on whether you mention a family or individuals.  That's all what I  meant by "iffy".  Political articles mention famous families and individuals often and are sometimes sued.  It seems to me to be largely a matter of whether they'd treat your story as publicity or slander.

Look at the Disney people. They're very likely to sue for any infringement at all, and have the lawyers to win.  It;s why I  used "Maurice 'Mickey'  Mouse" in a couple of stories. 

What occurs to me is a question of why take a chance?  Simply use alternate names such as "Asters" and change a few facts in their description. 

If it were me, I'd go ahead.  Let them sue. What they going to get?  A cage of rats and three hungry cats. He-he.

Charlie


----------



## EmmaSohan (Sep 28, 2014)

Does it really make any difference who they are? I mean, is that important to the story or mostly a gimmick?

I guess I see a problem (I don't know if it's a legal problem) with taking a real person and then saying what that real person would really be like in an alternate reality if they are worse in the alternate reality. I guess any changes have to be motivated.


----------



## popsprocket (Sep 29, 2014)

Fiction is fairly immune from defamation just by virtue of being fiction. If you are using real members of this family as the bases for characters, then change their names. It's pretty easy.

Consider though, in all honesty, does it add anything to the story to use the real family? What's wrong with a fictional powerful family? Presumably your readers will understand the intent, alternate history or not, that some old money political type families exist both in the real world and the one you've created and don't require the families to be based on real ones to understand the point being made.


----------



## InstituteMan (Sep 29, 2014)

I would change the name if possible, but healthy risk aversion is one of my occupational hazards.


----------



## Guy Faukes (Sep 29, 2014)

I agree that tweaking the name would avert potential lawsuits. Unfortunately, I've also named the country after their surname, so it means I have another snappy-but-realistic country name to think of... and I am very fatigued of creating names, haha. 

The theme seems to lose some of it's gravitas when I alter their names too much. There's a bit of power with noting the Astors, and having a simulacrum doesn't entirely fit the same way. 

Also, since they are political and economic figures, they have dipped their toes into some pretty nasty incidents in my novel. This is sort of "normal" with real life politics, but implicating the Astors in that sort may end up costing me a feline and her living snacks. 

Sometimes it's just best to drop a plot point and find something more meaningful. Ah well, back to the drawing board.


----------



## tabasco5 (Sep 29, 2014)

.


----------



## Guy Faukes (Sep 29, 2014)

Touche, but I might be pissing off an entire family with notable wealth (and legal power) on semi-realistic terms. That was almost a parody of Lincoln


----------



## Morkonan (Oct 2, 2014)

Guy Faukes said:


> Touche, but I might be pissing off an entire family with notable wealth (and legal power) on semi-realistic terms.



If you're including the family of Aster because, after all, it's "Aster" and that will draw attention for your story, then hire a lawyer... A good one.

But, if they're just an "also ran" in your story, the pressure is much less. Still, don't have notables, who are simply "civilians", that don't purposefully seek out publicity doing things that could impinge upon their character or good name.


----------



## Guy Faukes (Oct 27, 2014)

I think I'm going to rip out any plot lines relating to them as a family itself, but might keep the odd name here and there. It was a neat idea awhile ago, but it's doesn't add anything. Gotta discard plot points even if you're attached to them if they just don't work.


----------



## K.S. Crooks (Nov 8, 2014)

You are fine to use whichever family names you want in fiction. Because you are not trying to pass anything off as being real. Think of a story based on one event in history changing or the entire genre of historical fiction, which blends real history with imagination. Dan Brown would be out of work if no one was allowed to make up stuff about people or organizations. Again, as long as you don't try to pass it off as fact or true history there is no problem.


----------



## Morkonan (Nov 9, 2014)

Guy Faukes said:


> I think I'm going to rip out any plot lines relating to them as a family itself, but might keep the odd name here and there. It was a neat idea awhile ago, but it's doesn't add anything. Gotta discard plot points even if you're attached to them if they just don't work.



That's an excellent choice and you've used the most appropriate decision process to come to that determination! It's "neat", but due to its nature and the name of a prominent family, it's overly distracting if it doesn't serve a specific name-related purpose. Yank it out of there! 

+1 Quatloos for you! 



K.S. Crooks said:


> You are fine to use whichever family names you want in fiction. Because you are not trying to pass anything off as being real. Think of a story based on one event in history changing or the entire genre of historical fiction, which blends real history with imagination. Dan Brown would be out of work if no one was allowed to make up stuff about people or organizations. Again, as long as you don't try to pass it off as fact or true history there is no problem.



You can't do this. If I wrote a story that placed a prominent musician/actor/celebrity in it as a pet-rapist and then ran him around the city, forcing himself upon everyone's beloved family companions, I'd be sued into the Dark Ages. I would literally have to rely on keeping warm by rummaging through garbage cans for disposable lighters...

"Fiction" does not give you literary license to do what you wish with anyone's name. Never! Celebrity's names are "Big Bucks" and they and their legions of attorney's will fight to control them anywhere they crop up. Go ahead, try writing a fictional story with a celebrity's name in it and see what happens. Let us know how much money you got sued for. Let us know what the judge said when you responded "It's just fiction." 

It might be possible to use certain notable names in fiction as just a casual reference, but, certainly, you could not hope to create a character of a celebrity and then incorporate them into a fictional story without attracting legal attention. For some bits of historical fiction, you might be able to get away with it. Even then, you'd need to be very gentle and could not easily continue some fictional storyline past the point of "known fact" where that person was concerned. Certainly, if you used that celebrity's name as an obvious selling-point for your story, you'd never make it to the publisher's office - They'd rather watch you getting sued from the viewpoint of an external observer.


----------



## Savalric (Dec 1, 2014)

There are laws that protect the author in this case, so long as it is view as: Parody, informational, or commentary. Just look at Family Guy/South Park/Simpsons/Futurama/etc... They not only use celebrities in their shows, they openly mock them with the same names and everything. Hell, imagine Ben Stiller's face when word got out that he goes down to Home Depot and pays illegal immigrants to strangle him in the shower. Did he sue? Nope. 

However, each of those brands are already established. Essentially, you'd have to prove that whatever you had to gain could've been gained without said figure. In your case, not so much, because the work is entirely based on the family and would portray their personal lives (albeit an alternate version) in a personal manner. When those shows (or any show for that manner) talk about a celebrity, they only go so far as to talk about publicly known information. You could do a what if story about Obama being born in Kenya, but not a what if about if he was gay. (Unless you were doing it with the intent of exploring the nature and ramifications of a gay politician, otherwise known as commentary). It's always iffy, but as said before, you're case cuts it real close.

- - - Updated - - -



Morkonan said:


> You can't do this. If I wrote a story that placed a prominent musician/actor/celebrity in it as a pet-rapist and then ran him around the city, forcing himself upon everyone's beloved family companions, I'd be sued into the Dark Ages. I would literally have to rely on keeping warm by rummaging through garbage cans for disposable lighters...
> 
> "Fiction" does not give you literary license to do what you wish with anyone's name. Never! Celebrity's names are "Big Bucks" and they and their legions of attorney's will fight to control them anywhere they crop up. Go ahead, try writing a fictional story with a celebrity's name in it and see what happens. Let us know how much money you got sued for. Let us know what the judge said when you responded "It's just fiction."
> 
> It might be possible to use certain notable names in fiction as just a casual reference, but, certainly, you could not hope to create a character of a celebrity and then incorporate them into a fictional story without attracting legal attention. For some bits of historical fiction, you might be able to get away with it. Even then, you'd need to be very gentle and could not easily continue some fictional storyline past the point of "known fact" where that person was concerned. Certainly, if you used that celebrity's name as an obvious selling-point for your story, you'd never make it to the publisher's office - They'd rather watch you getting sued from the viewpoint of an external observer.



This is only partially true. It all comes down to money in those cases. If J.K. Rowling wrote your pet-rapist book, then yeah, because she stands to make quite a lot of money from it. If I wrote it, no biggie.


----------



## SwitchBack (Jan 4, 2015)

K.S. Crooks said:


> You are fine to use whichever family names you want in fiction. Because you are not trying to pass anything off as being real. Think of a story based on one event in history changing or the entire genre of historical fiction, which blends real history with imagination. Dan Brown would be out of work if no one was allowed to make up stuff about people or organizations. Again, as long as you don't try to pass it off as fact or true history there is no problem.



Dan Brown - author of The Da Vinci Code.

He didn't warp history or any beliefs that people haven't been playing with for quite a while. The idea that Jesus had children has been passed back and forth for years [if not decades]. He merely put into words what a *lot *of people think. And he was smart enough *never *to degrade the church. The bad people in the Da Vinci Code were written out as radicals, not mainstream. 

He was also sued or a number of people tried suing him for copyright ideas. 



Let's put it this way - would you stand aside if someone wrote a book that made you out to be a rapist? 

In this day and age where people "shoot first and ask questions later", it's better to play it safe. 

The fact that you're questioning means you're not comfortable using it.


However, if you're determined to use the family as a base for your story, change the name. 

Astor means hawk / goshawk. It also had multiple misspellings
https://www.houseofnames.com/astor-family-crest



As for the use of celebs in this like the Simpsons. The writers have a slew of lawyers at their beck & call. So if *you've *got a slew of lawyers, sure go right head. Otherwise as the saying goes, cover your ass.


----------

