# Amazon Publishing (1 Viewer)



## utah_biker (Jan 25, 2021)

Has anyone used, or familiar with, Amazon publishing?  What's the process?  Does it work?  Would you recommend it?


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## Backstroke_Italics (Feb 6, 2021)

Are you referring to using Amazon to print and distribute physical books? Amazon for ebook publishing is pretty straight-forward.


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## alexaben (Feb 11, 2021)

is amazon publishing is useful or easy?


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## SueC (Feb 11, 2021)

alexaben said:


> is amazon publishing is useful or easy?



Publishing on Kindle can be a simple matter, but I don't know about "useful." It really all depends on your skills in formatting and figuring out how you want your pages to look. For example, books are typically printed in single space, with no spaces between paragraphs. The pages are double sided, so sometimes you may have to put in a blank page so that your chapters begin on the left side of the book, if that's what you determine. You have to know if you want a table of contents, if there will be a prologue and what font you may want to use on the type and also for the Chapter Heading. Give it all some thought before you start.

When you publish on Kindle, you can download a template in a variety of sizes for paperback books. You will be responsible for the Cover art and formatting all of it, including the back cover. The template is very helpful, but it is important to go through the book several times to be sure your pages look as they should. You have to be patient!

I have published three books on Kindle. They give you an opportunity to purchase (at a small price) a proof, which was really helpful. I was having trouble "seeing" the book, so I ordered one proof and marked it up quite a bit. Then I went back and updated what needed and ordered 10 copies.

I make very, very little money with Kindle, but I'm sure if were more aggressive and promoting my books, I would be more successful. You can download the templates for free to see how it goes, if you just want to try it out. Good luck!

Sue


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## VRanger (Feb 12, 2021)

SueC said:


> The template is very helpful, but it is important to go through the book several times to be sure your pages look as they should. You have to be patient!



Indeed. My paperbacks are always slightly different copy than my eBook. I make sure to eliminate orphan lines, as they run up the print price ... adding pages for one or two lines on that page.


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

I've used Amazon's KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing) for all my books and have never had a problem.

I download the 6x9 word template and copy my individual chapters over.

Of course, there is some formatting to do; there are no automated upload and formatting processes because getting it right is too complicated.

First, add your title (etc), ISBN, copyright, disclaimer, etc. (ETA: add header, footer page numbers)
Second, upload each chapter - up until this point I keep them as separate word files.
Third,  change the chapter headers to the right format and make sure they are consistent.
Fourth, change your scene separators so they are consistent.
Fifth, chapters need to start on odd number pages (so they are on the right when the book is opened). Add blank pages as necessary.
Sixth, add the Afterword (if there is one), and author bio
Seventh, format your TOC (table of contents)

I read the book again to make sure everything looks ok.
Then I upload it.

Covers:
There's a template for this, but to download the correct one you need to know the number of pages in your book (it's a spline thickness issue). That's what my cover designer works with. If you do your own work, that template is your canvas. 

This sounds more complicated than it actually is.

ETA:
I use the same file when I upload kindle content. I'm trying to recall which it is... but I believe kindle prefers PDF format, but the hardcopy uses standard Word format.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

indianroads said:


> I've used Amazon's KDP (Kindle Direct Publishing) for all my books and have never had a problem.
> 
> I download the 6x9 word template and copy my individual chapters over.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed instructions indianroads.   Can you go back in and edit after you have uploaded it?


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## VRanger (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Thanks for the detailed instructions indianroads.   Can you go back in and edit after you have uploaded it?



I use docx files for both Kindle and paperback.

You can upload revisions as often as you please. They will take from hours to a couple of days to go live.


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Thanks for the detailed instructions indianroads.   Can you go back in and edit after you have uploaded it?



Yes - as vranger said - just upload a new one. The engineer in me insists I make a copy and revise that, then upload it.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

vranger said:


> I use docx files for both Kindle and paperback.
> 
> You can upload revisions as often as you please. They will take from hours to a couple of days to go live.





indianroads said:


> Yes - as vranger said - just upload a new one. The engineer in me insists I make a copy and revise that, then upload it.



So how does the paperback version work?  Does Amazon just print to order?  Otherwise it would be different.


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## VRanger (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> So how does the paperback version work?  Does Amazon just print to order?  Otherwise it would be different.



Yes, they're Print on Demand (POD).

I create a separate project for the POD version as opposed to the Kindle version, because formatting requirements are enough different to justify it. As mentioned above, one reason is to eliminate orphaned lines.


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> So how does the paperback version work?  Does Amazon just print to order?  Otherwise it would be different.



Yes - it's print on demand. They must have an amazing factory.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

indianroads said:


> Yes - it's print on demand. They must have an amazing factory.



Yeah - no kidding...I would love to see that!  Plus they save money on inventory and labour of staff having to go find it.


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

vranger said:


> Yes, they're Print on Demand (POD).
> 
> I create a separate project for the POD version as opposed to the Kindle version, because formatting requirements are enough different to justify it. As mentioned above, one reason is to eliminate orphaned lines.



Once it's formatted for print I go back in and look for stray lines separated by a page break. It's usually simple to change wording (etc) to make the breaks clean.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

Does Kindle or Amazon provide any marketing support?  If yes, what do they provide, and how useful do you find it?


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Does Kindle or Amazon provide any marketing support?  If yes, what do they provide, and how useful do you find it?



You can advertise on Amazon - which can be pricey, but it's where people go when they're looking for a book to buy, so it's better (IMO) than other venues like Facebook.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

indianroads said:


> You can advertise on Amazon - which can be pricey, but it's where people go when they're looking for a book to buy, so it's better (IMO) than other venues like Facebook.



So you have to pay for all marketing?  You don't get some basic marketing with the package?


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> So you have to pay for all marketing?  You don't get some basic marketing with the package?



No - we have to pay for it. The marketing is coupled with KDP - but you don't have to use it if you only want to advertise outside of Amazon.

ETA: Putting your book for sale on Amazon is free.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

indianroads said:


> No - we have to pay for it. The marketing is coupled with KDP - but you don't have to use it if you only want to advertise outside of Amazon.
> 
> ETA: Putting your book for sale on Amazon is free.



Wow...I did not know that!  So my first thought is how does Amazon have enough server space to handle the massive amounts of books that must get uploaded everyday.  My second thought was, do they play any role in quality control?


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## VRanger (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Wow...I did not know that!  So my first thought is how does Amazon have enough server space to handle the massive amounts of books that must get uploaded everyday.  My second thought was, do they play any role in quality control?



Amazon has more server farms than anyone else you can name, and book size files are trivial.

No, they play NO role in quality control. People can, and DO, upload the worst garbage you can imagine.


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Wow...I did not know that!  So my first thought is how does Amazon have enough server space to handle the massive amounts of books that must get uploaded everyday.  My second thought was, do they play any role in quality control?



Books ARE reviewed before they are put up for sale - obviously they don't want child-porn on their site... beyond that, I have no idea what they scan for. It takes a couple days from the time you post your novel to when it's available for sale.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

vranger said:


> Amazon has more server farms than anyone else you can name, and book size files are trivial.
> 
> No, they play NO roll in quality control. People can, and DO, upload the worst garbage you can imagine.



Oh so I see this ties into your post on the other thread about reading first time authors.  I see a business model here for someone with your expertise to single out books on Amazon and make recommendations.  

I think it’s “role” by the way Mr. SPAG


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## Kensa (Feb 13, 2021)

vranger said:


> People can, and DO, upload the worst garbage you can imagine.



I wonder if "no quality control" a durable strategy? Won't people get tired if it's become too difficult to find quality?


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

indianroads said:


> Books ARE reviewed before they are put up for sale - obviously they don't want child-porn on their site... beyond that, I have no idea what they scan for. It takes a couple days from the time you post your novel to when it's available for sale.



I would think it would be in their best interest to have some minimum standard.  I'm sure they do with other product as well.


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## VRanger (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Oh so I see this ties into your post on the other thread about reading first time authors.  I see a business model here for someone with your expertise to single out books on Amazon and make recommendations.
> 
> I think it’s “role” by the way Mr. SPAG


That's what happens when you're trying to type and watch the golf tournament at the same time.  I'll never deny producing the occasional typo. They're about 50% of what I catch when I proofread, and that's AFTER I've read through everything again as I type it, read it aloud to my wife, and then done the initial read through. :-/


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## VRanger (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> I'm sure they do with other product as well.



Not really. Chinese 3rd party sellers have crap listed that falls apart almost out of the box. They depend on review ratings to send the dreck to the bottom and hopefully allow customers to find something worth purchase.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

vranger said:


> Not really. Chinese 3rd party sellers have crap listed that falls apart almost out of the box. They depend on review ratings to send the dreck to the bottom and hopefully allow customers to find something worth purchase.



Yeah that's true. I bought a laptop couch tray that literally fell apart within seconds after I used it. I sent them a return request and they sent me an all postage paid return label and gave me 2 months to return it. The day after I mailed it, the credit went through. They wouldn't have even got the item back yet. So for the non-quality control strategy, they need a robust return policy. But what about e books. If you buy it, and it's crap, can you request your money back?


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## VRanger (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Yeah that's true. I bought a laptop couch tray that literally fell apart within seconds after I used it. I sent them a return request and they sent me an all postage paid return label and gave my 2 months to return it. The day after I mailed it, the credit went through. They wouldn't have even got the item back yet. So for the non-quality control strategy, they need a robust return policy. But what about e books. If you buy it, and it's crap, can you request your money back?



You can. You have about a 48 hour return window for a Kindle book. If you do it too often, they smell a scam and won't let you do it anymore, though (so at least I've heard). However, with 10% of the book available in the preview, you shouldn't stumble on a choice too often.

I rarely buy books just by stumbling across them, though. Everything I read comes from a recommendation I had confidence in. Still, I've investigated a few recommendations and wound up pinching my nose.


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## indianroads (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Yeah that's true. I bought a laptop couch tray that literally fell apart within seconds after I used it. I sent them a return request and they sent me an all postage paid return label and gave me 2 months to return it. The day after I mailed it, the credit went through. They wouldn't have even got the item back yet. So for the non-quality control strategy, they need a robust return policy. But what about e books. If you buy it, and it's crap, can you request your money back?



There's a lot of things you can use to judge whether you want to buy an ebook (or hardcopy) or not. 
First - obviously the description.
Second - reviews.
Third - you can 'look inside' and read the first few pages. 
Fourth - you can download (for free) the first 10% of the book.

If you've done your due diligence with the above and you still bought it then decided that it's crud - I guess that's on you.


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## Cephus (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> So you have to pay for all marketing?  You don't get some basic marketing with the package?



There's no such thing as a free ride. Of course you have to pay for it. They do give you a 30 day boost after you initially publish where they try to push your book to people, based on the kind of people who buy it, but after that, you're on your own. Why would you expect to get anything for free? This is a business.


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

Cephus said:


> There's no such thing as a free ride. Of course you have to pay for it. They do give you a 30 day boost after you initially publish where they try to push your book to people, based on the kind of people who buy it, but after that, you're on your own. Why would you expect to get anything for free? This is a business.



Yes, i understand it's a business.  I teach business...lol!  I didn't realize that you didn't have to pay to upload it.  indianroads filled me in.  I thought you paid for a package to publish on Amazon, like you do with vanity publishers such as Iuniverse.  They have various flat rate packages and some include marketing.


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## SueC (Feb 13, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Yeah that's true. I bought a laptop couch tray that literally fell apart within seconds after I used it. I sent them a return request and they sent me an all postage paid return label and gave me 2 months to return it. The day after I mailed it, the credit went through. They wouldn't have even got the item back yet. So for the non-quality control strategy, they need a robust return policy. But what about e books. If you buy it, and it's crap, can you request your money back?



I doubt it; crap is subjective


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## Taylor (Feb 13, 2021)

indianroads said:


> There's a lot of things you can use to judge whether you want to buy an ebook (or hardcopy) or not.
> First - obviously the description.
> Second - reviews.
> Third - you can 'look inside' and read the first few pages.
> ...



That makes sense.  I just noticed they also keep a bestseller list:
_
In order to hit #1 on Amazon, you'll need to sell somewhere between 3,500 and 5,000 copies in 24 hours. Want to hit top 10? You'll need to sell roughly 300 for print, or 2,000+ copies for combined formats._


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## ScifiWriter (Feb 24, 2021)

Oh, boy. Where to begin?

I personally find KDP publishing very good... at publishing. They do not copy edit your book, nor do they read it. They only check it to ensure that it looks like a proper book with everything in the right places. It could be good or it could be rubbish. They are equal opportunity publishers.

All of my novels are written in Microsoft Word DOCX format. Everything to do with formatting is done with styles.

You must have a properly formatted cover. May I strongly suggest a professional cover artist if you are not a graphic artist yourself.

Keywords and categories are HUGELY important to get right and you need to pay attention to do a good job or all your wonderful writing will go unnoticed.

The same with blurbs. You need to have written a killer story description that will compel me to look further.

Only then do you go forward to publish your book on Amazon. BUT having paid attention to all those pesky details that I just mentioned, you should find the experience simple and straightforward. The publishing part is easy. All the prep is not.

For fiction, Amazon has the vast majority of the market cornered. They are the 800 pound gorilla on the block.


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## SueC (Feb 24, 2021)

ScifiWriter said:


> Oh, boy. Where to begin?
> 
> I personally find KDP publishing very good... at publishing. They do not copy edit your book, nor do they read it. They only check it to ensure that it looks like a proper book with everything in the right places. It could be good or it could be rubbish. They are equal opportunity publishers.
> 
> ...



I agree with everything you said. I use Amazon for my books. I have no real expectations of grandeur and there is a very strong sense of accomplishment being able to do all the things you mentioned, and then wah-lee-lah, the book in your hand is your very own in every way. Also, if there's something you want to publish, say, for just your family, or a book of short stories for a small group of friends - Amazon (Kindle) is perfect for that. I just ordered another 10 of my most recent novel to give to friends, and those interested, in the hopes that thousands of people will hear about it (LOL!) and mob Amazon for their own copy. It's what I think of as my "marketing budget."


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## Taylor (Feb 24, 2021)

SueC said:


> I agree with everything you said. I use Amazon for my books. I have no real expectations of grandeur and there is a very strong sense of accomplishment being able to do all the things you mentioned, and then wah-lee-lah, the book in your hand is your very own in every way. Also, if there's something you want to publish, say, for just your family, or a book of short stories for a small group of friends - Amazon (Kindle) is perfect for that. I just ordered another 10 of my most recent novel to give to friends, and those interested, in the hopes that thousands of people will hear about it (LOL!) and mob Amazon for their own copy. It's what I think of as my "marketing budget."



First off, congrats on your books, that is quite an accomplishment indeed!

But I'm not sure I understand the business model for Amazon.  They provide the platform for free, and then they take 15% of your sales.  I think there must be a certain amount of promotion, because when I look at a book on Amazon, there is always a ribbon of books on the bottom of the screen saying, "People who bought this also bought".  I'm surprised they don't do more.  It must cost them to provide the platform. Why wouldn't they want to provide some free marketing, or even marketing you have to pay additional for? They have the audience and stand to gain from your sale.


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## Foxee (Feb 24, 2021)

Taylor said:


> That makes sense.  I just noticed they also keep a bestseller list:
> _
> In order to hit #1 on Amazon, you'll need to sell somewhere between 3,500 and 5,000 copies in 24 hours. Want to hit top 10? You'll need to sell roughly 300 for print, or 2,000+ copies for combined formats._


So the smart money would be on getting the word out before you release it. That is something I'm interested in learning more about. I've seen books linked from FB to teasers and previews on author websites. Seems like there should be more strategies than that but I don't know what they are.


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## indianroads (Feb 24, 2021)

Taylor said:


> So how does the paperback version work?  Does Amazon just print to order?  Otherwise it would be different.



The paperback is a separate upload process from your KDP page - however the text of your book can be in the same docx format, pdf can be used for one of them, but I forget which (just take your formatted word file and save it as a pdf). The cover is different though. For Kindle you only upload the front cover, but for paperback you need the full jacket as one file (from left to right: back cover, spline, front cover). Be sure to download the KDP template and match your cover design to those parameters - there's a barcode area on the back cover.

Amazon prints books to order - their factory must be amazing. You can purchase a single copy, or multiple copies, and each is at the same price.


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## Taylor (Feb 24, 2021)

Foxee said:


> So the smart money would be on getting the word out before you release it. That is something I'm interested in learning more about. I've seen books linked from FB to teasers and previews on author websites. Seems like there should be more strategies than that but I don't know what they are.



Yes, exactly!  I had a professional cover done and have created a page on FB. I see it had already had hits even though there is very little on it.  I'm not sure what brings people to it. Does anyone know?  Although this may be slightly off topic...sorry moderators. :friendly_wink:  And have I registered my my domain, but not yet set up a web page, because I don't have any previous novels, so it might seem odd to have a web page. But eventually when one publishes on Amazon, they can already have the website ready to go.  And the FB page can direct people to Amazon.  Although I don't see that Amazon provides a link to the authors website, or am I just missing that?


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## Taylor (Feb 24, 2021)

indianroads said:


> The paperback is a separate upload process from your KDP page - however the text of your book can be in the same docx format, pdf can be used for one of them, but I forget which (just take your formatted word file and save it as a pdf). The cover is different though. For Kindle you only upload the front cover, but for paperback you need the full jacket as one file (from left to right: back cover, spline, front cover). Be sure to download the KDP template and match your cover design to those parameters - there's a barcode area on the back cover.
> 
> Amazon prints books to order - their factory must be amazing. You can purchase a single copy, or multiple copies, and each is at the same price.



It's extraordinary really!  It's hard to think about going with a traditional publisher, waiting months or years to get picked up.  Especially since Covid, people have become so comfortable with online shopping.  If you publish on Amazon, can you still get into public libraries?


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## indianroads (Feb 24, 2021)

Taylor said:


> It's extraordinary really!  It's hard to think about going with a traditional publisher, waiting months or years to get picked up.  Especially since Covid, people have become so comfortable with online shopping.  If you publish on Amazon, can you still get into public libraries?



I've seen articles on how to get our books into libraries, but confess that I've not read them.


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## Foxee (Feb 24, 2021)

Taylor said:


> It's extraordinary really!  It's hard to think about going with a traditional publisher, waiting months or years to get picked up.  Especially since Covid, people have become so comfortable with online shopping.  If you publish on Amazon, can you still get into public libraries?


I don't know how public libraries choose new books but if you're putting an ISBN number on the book this is what it means:


> An ISBN is essentially a product identifier used by publishers, booksellers, libraries, internet retailers and other supply chain participants for ordering, listing, sales records and stock control purposes. The ISBN identifies the registrant as well as the specific title, edition and format.


So it's an identifier that a library would use, at least. I don't see why they wouldn't choose a popular book that was published privately for their collection if they think it's a good book. 

Still, I imagine there might have to be some noisy marketing and popularity surrounding the book, too.


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## indianroads (Feb 24, 2021)

Foxee said:


> I don't know how public libraries choose new books but if you're putting an ISBN number on the book this is what it means:
> 
> So it's an identifier that a library would use, at least. I don't see why they wouldn't choose a popular book that was published privately for their collection if they think it's a good book.
> 
> Still, I imagine there might have to be some noisy marketing and popularity surrounding the book, too.



There could be a snag if you get your identifying number via Amazon - they use AISN (Amazon numbers), which may preclude your book getting in libraries.


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## Foxee (Feb 24, 2021)

indianroads said:


> There could be a snag if you get your identifying number via Amazon - they use AISN (Amazon numbers), which may preclude your book getting in libraries.


Can you get an ISBN in addition to the AISN? I don't know how one gets an ISBN - haven't had occasion to do it.


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## indianroads (Feb 24, 2021)

Foxee said:


> Can you get an ISBN in addition to the AISN? I don't know how one gets an ISBN - haven't had occasion to do it.



I've not tried it, but this is what I found online.
https://self-publishingschool.com/how-to-get-an-isbn/#final


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## Cephus (Feb 24, 2021)

Foxee said:


> Can you get an ISBN in addition to the AISN? I don't know how one gets an ISBN - haven't had occasion to do it.



It's not at all hard. Buy them here: http://www.bowker.com/products/ISBN-US.html


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## SueC (Feb 24, 2021)

Foxee said:


> Can you get an ISBN in addition to the AISN? I don't know how one gets an ISBN - haven't had occasion to do it.




In the process of formatting and establishing your book, they ask you if you already have an ISBN or do you need one? If you say you need, they assign a number for you without any extra effort on your part. It just shows up on your book. I don't know about AISN.


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## PhillipDine (Mar 18, 2021)

Cephus said:


> It's not at all hard. Buy them here


Thanks for the link. Turns out the ISBN doesn't cost much, only $295.


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## PiP (Mar 18, 2021)

PhillipDine said:


> Thanks for the link. Turns out the ISBN doesn't cost much, only $295.



That's for 10

check out a very useful article. 

https://blog.reedsy.com/how-to-get-an-isbn/


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## Selorian (Mar 19, 2021)

> *The ASIN is not the same as an ISBN. If you are publishing a book and have an ISBN (either one you purchased or one assigned to you by Amazon) the ASIN may be the same as the ISBN, which makes it confusing. However, the ASIN is used by Amazon internally to track products and the ISBN is used to identify your book across international borders.*





> *Sometimes the ISBN is not transferable between sites. For example, if you get an assigned ISBN through Draft2Digital but want to sell your book on Amazon, you may need to have another ISBN assigned by Amazon. Then you have two ISBNs for the same book.*



https://ceflores.com/tag/what-is-the-difference-between-isbn-and-asin/

In Canada, you can get isbn's for free and you get them in batches of ten at a time.

If you don't want an isbn, Amazon assigns an ASIN. If you want an ISBN but don't want to buy or get your own, Amazon will provide one from their own supply of ISBN's. The best bet is to get your own as to the reason in the second quoted text above. You will also need a separate ISBN for each version (digital and print) as well as ideally any new editions.

Hope this helps.


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## Ralph Rotten (Mar 20, 2021)

Amazon is really the ONLY place worth publishing.
Sure, there are all those other places...but they don't push the volume that Amazon does.

Depending on what kind of product you are publishing, Amazon can be easy or complicated.
Sure, you could just upload a pdf and it will build you an ebook...but that is a crappy ebook.
I have found that books built from docx or pdf files were wonky when they were converted to an eBook.
The index doesn't work, the fonts shift, images don't behave, the layout has glitches.

There are several good programs for creating eBooks that look professional.
Take the time and create a quality product.


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## Setsukograb (Jun 21, 2021)

If you want to sell your book via a marketplace, you will have to choose the right one. And it also depends whether the books is in PDF format or printed. Firstly, in comparison to standard book editors, some platforms as Amazon will pay you a bigger stake from sales. I heard about some 30/70% difference. Imagine working for a book and then getting only 30% of sales! Incredible how convenient are marketplaces for publishers. Then, they might also offer you diverse tools for your own statistics like global package tracking. At least you will understand the quality of delivery and the rate of customer experience.


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## indianroads (Jun 21, 2021)

Setsukograb said:


> If you want to sell your book via a marketplace, you will have to choose the right one. And it also depends whether the books is in PDF format or printed.


PDF's are pretty standard input for digital or printed books, but Amazon also accepts DOCX (MS Word) format. If you use Word and need a PDF just select that file type when you save it.


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## bazz cargo (Jul 31, 2021)

This is very helpful, UK-centric but full of useful ideas.





						Calling all Authors: A Seriously Useful Guide to Becoming a Successful Author: Amazon.co.uk: Cavanagh, Mary: 9781785075476: Books
					


Buy Calling all Authors: A Seriously Useful Guide to Becoming a Successful Author by Cavanagh, Mary (ISBN: 9781785075476) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.




					www.amazon.co.uk


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## Tettsuo (Aug 4, 2021)

Never use Amazon's ISBN numbers. They own those numbers, not you.

For physical copies, go with IngramSparks if you want wide distro. They have a much further distribution reach, but it's also not free ($50 per project).


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## Ralph Rotten (Sep 7, 2021)

utah_biker said:


> Has anyone used, or familiar with, Amazon publishing?  What's the process?  Does it work?  Would you recommend it?


You get what you put into it. If you just upload a word file and a pic you grabbed off the internet, then you will get a shite book.
But if you take the time and do it properly, you can publish professional grade novels via Amazon, both print and eBook.
It all depends on how much effort you put into it.

Also, in the current market, Amazon is THE way. Sure, you can publish other places, but all of them combined won't bring in as much as you can make on Amazon. Publish on Amazon first...then all those other places second. And don't even mess around with B&N's print service. That thing is a vanity press.


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## RGS (Dec 1, 2021)

Hi. I'm new to the forum (just joined less than an hour ago), and I can offer a little insight. I just published my fifth novel on KDP. They're all available in e-book, paperback, and as of recently, hardcover editions. So I've been through the wringer on all three methods.

Personally, I love KDP. If gives me the control I like and offers lots of options.

But having said that, here are a few things I find to be a bit annoying:

1. I've found that it expects a different cover size for hardcover vs. paperback. Not only that, but a paperback cover that looks perfect will have the main text shoved too far up top or to the left or right on hardcover. So covers can be a little tricky. Also, the cover for a printed book has to be done as a PDF, so you have to resize it through whatever means you prefer. I use a website that does it for free. For all five of my books, I had to create a paperback version of the cover and a different one for the hardcover edition. I haven't tried their Cover Creator tool, so who knows? It might work well right off the bat. But designing my own has been a little bit of  a challenge at times.

2. If I catch a minor typo or "bonehead" error, fix it, and re-upload the manuscript, it takes almost a full day for the changes to take effect. Same if I change the cover. Also, if you upload a different cover and don't touch the manuscript, it _still_ has to process the manuscript all over again. I know. First World problems.  I'm sure traditional publishing makes it a lot tougher to institute a change.

3. I find Amazon's tools to be a bit clumsy. I use Kindle Create and Kindle Previewer (just to be clear, I write the books in MS Word, then import into Kindle Create). Kindle Create has its own little quirks, where it'll randomly insert a carriage return where there's not supposed to be one, or space a three-word line across the entire page, things like that. 

4. I've seen it take quite some time for a change to be implemented in the "Look Inside" preview on the product. For example, my first novel began life as a manuscript to send to publishing agents, so it had the double-spaced lines and half-inch margins. Well, I fixed the double spacing, but initially left the half-inch margins. Once I decided that I couldn't stand it anymore and set aside the time to fix the margins and resubmit, it literally took almost a month for the "Look Inside" to reflect the changes.

But all in all, I have no real complaints aside from my own impatience with it at times.

And by the way, if anyone needs help with covers, I can possibly lend a hand.


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## indianroads (Dec 1, 2021)

Paperback and hardcover require different ISBN's.
I've also had trouble with the hardcover cover images - the difference between that and the paperback versions is the dent around the hardcover spline that adds width to a flattened image. The hardcover option is still in BETA, so hopefully it will improve.

Welcome to WF!


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## RGS (Dec 1, 2021)

Taylor said:


> It's extraordinary really!  It's hard to think about going with a traditional publisher, waiting months or years to get picked up.  Especially since Covid, people have become so comfortable with online shopping.  If you publish on Amazon, can you still get into public libraries?



Funny that you should ask that... I spoke to a lady with my local library system recently and asked that question. She directed me to their "Materials Submissions" page. I basically filled out a short PDF form for each of my books. Once I published the latest one last week, I ordered hardcover author copies. Once they arrive in late December, I'll print those info forms, attach them to the books, and take them to my local branch to be delivered to her.

I also asked her what determines whether it makes it into the library or not, and she said that they look them over for quality of writing, reviews, overall professionalism, etc...

So I'll hopefully have my answer in January or February.


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## RGS (Dec 1, 2021)

Foxee said:


> Can you get an ISBN in addition to the AISN? I don't know how one gets an ISBN - haven't had occasion to do it.



Yes. I got free ISBN numbers from Amazon when I published each book.


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## RGS (Dec 1, 2021)

indianroads said:


> Paperback and hardcover require different ISBN's.
> I've also had trouble with the hardcover cover images - the difference between that and the paperback versions is the dent around the hardcover spline that adds width to a flattened image. The hardcover option is still in BETA, so hopefully it will improve.
> 
> Welcome to WF!



Great point. Yeah, I have a file with the hardcover and paperback ISBN numbers for mine. I figured those might come in handy someday.


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## Ralph Rotten (Dec 7, 2021)

Taylor said:


> Does Kindle or Amazon provide any marketing support?  If yes, what do they provide, and how useful do you find it?



*If you join Kindle Unlimited [KU} then you can run free marketing campaigns like:*
Book giveaway. Give away a book for free for 5 days every quarter***
Countdown sales where the price of your book climbs at specific intervals

*There are pros and cons with KU tho.
Pro*: Because the KU database is filled largely with crap, it is easy to stand out and pick up some reviews.
*Con*: It is exclusive...you cannot sell that book (in digital format) anywhere else. Print is okay...but only Amazon can sell a book enrolled in KU.
*Pro*: It actually pays as well as a other formats.
*Pro*: You have marketing tools described above.


***Pretty handy way to pick up reviews fast. If you time a giveaway with a marketing campaign on social media, you can really put some books in front of readers.


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## Ralph Rotten (Dec 7, 2021)

Taylor said:
 If you publish on Amazon, can you still get into public libraries?

For libraries you need to get into Ingram for print copies, and Overdrive for eBook (I think...)
A good way to reach the library market is to publish via D2D. They publish you in about 10 different places.
Check out this page for* IndiesUnited.* This is our library project page. *Make note of the markets at the bottom of each page*.
Once you publish on Amazon, go and get your stuff in those other markets.
Also, when you publish, DO NOT choose EXPANDED MARKETING (never, nunca, nyet nyet, nein, non!)
EM will jack up your cover price and make your book very undesirable.
You can do it yourself by just publishing with those sources listed on the website.


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## MiltonBradley (Dec 19, 2021)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Taylor said:
> If you publish on Amazon, can you still get into public libraries?
> 
> For libraries you need to get into Ingram for print copies, and Overdrive for eBook (I think...)
> ...


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## MiltonBradley (Dec 19, 2021)

I keep hearing the term vanity press.
What is that? Is it a company?


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## indianroads (Dec 19, 2021)

MiltonBradley said:


> I keep hearing the term vanity press.
> What is that? Is it a company?


No. It refers to a publisher that will print your books but won't sell them - that will be on you.
ETA: You usually have to pay the publisher for your books.


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## MiltonBradley (Dec 19, 2021)

indianroads said:


> No. It refers to a publisher that will print your books but won't sell them - that will be on you.
> ETA: You usually have to pay the publisher for your books.


You mean pay for copies of my book, or pay to publish?


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## MiltonBradley (Dec 19, 2021)

And why is a vanity press so bad?
Din't they all charge you?


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## indianroads (Dec 19, 2021)

MiltonBradley said:


> You mean pay for copies of my book, or pay to publish?


I've not gone down that path, but I think you pay for a stack of your books, then it's on you to sell them.


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## MiltonBradley (Dec 19, 2021)

Doesn't sound that bad...


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## indianroads (Dec 19, 2021)

MiltonBradley said:


> Doesn't sound that bad...


Sure. Pay for your books, then go around to shows where you can sell them. It works for some - a few people in my writer's guild (Pikes Peak Writers) do that. You have to purchase a table at an event, then sit there for the duration selling your books. Your profit margin is a bit higher than it is by going through Amazon and having them publish your books on demand when they sell.


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## VRanger (Dec 19, 2021)

MiltonBradley said:


> And why is a vanity press so bad?
> Din't they all charge you?


Vanity presses are 100% scams. A real publisher will tell you if your book is suitable for publication, and if they decide to publish it, you may have more work to do when they offer a contract and demand edits, but all that happens after that is ... You get paid.

A vanity press preys on hopeful authors who are not offered contracts by legitimate publishers, and charges them for various services, including printing the book. The author typically has to buy a minimum order of their book, then ... good luck selling them. Vanity presses are leeches. A real publisher pays _you_. You pay a vanity press. Which one of those scenarios seems more appealing? ;-)


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## indianroads (Dec 19, 2021)

VRanger said:


> Vanity presses are 100% scams. A real publisher will tell you if your book is suitable for publication, and if they decide to publish it, you may have more work to do when they offer a contract and demand edits, but all that happens after that is ... You get paid.
> 
> A vanity press preys on hopeful authors who are not offered contracts by legitimate publishers, and charges them for various services, including printing the book. The author typically has to buy a minimum order of their book, then ... good luck selling them. Vanity presses are leeches. A real publisher pays _you_. You pay a vanity press. Which one of those scenarios seems more appealing? ;-)


Completely agree. A member of Pikes Peak Writers Guild went that way - I guess he wants to be hands on. He told us how much he had to pay for a table at some kind of costume - comic con thing... forget what the price was but remember thinking that it was too much, and he only sold three books. IOW, he lost money on the deal.

It's a sad fact of human nature that there are those out there ready to take advantage of our dreams and bleed us dry as we attempt to fulfill them. Amazon works for me, it's easy and I make a little money - again though, that isn't why I write. It's personal growth and self exploration - and maybe something I write will be left behind after I'm gone.

Also, when asked what I do, it's fun to say... I'm a novelist.


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## PiP (Dec 19, 2021)

Check out some of the comments here


			https://www.writingforums.com/forums/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly.114/


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## apocalypsegal (Jan 11, 2022)

MiltonBradley said:


> And why is a vanity press so bad?
> Din't they all charge you?


Because you pay outrageous prices for things you can either do yourself, or pay qualified much less money. I've seen people who've paid $10K or more to get "published" . They have no concern for selling your book, they make their money off _you_.

One other point:  these days you'll see "hybrid presses" or "self publishing companies" around. They're still vanity presses, but they don't like that term for some reason. 

And no, true publishers pay the author, not the other way around. It costs me nothing to upload my files on Amazon or anywhere else. I only pay for things I need and can't do. Many pay for covers, or formatting, for example. You need to pay for ads to help sell your book (no, Amazon doesn't do anything for you, outside of letting you pay to use Amazon Ads).


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