# Your thoughts on thoughts...?



## Terry D (Mar 11, 2013)

At another writing forum I sometimes visit (rarely, but I do drop in every now and then) there's a discussion going on about how to show a character's thoughts in a story.  The general consensus at that site is that using italics is improper (whatever 'improper' means), and that all thoughts should be handled like other narration.  I was wondering what folks here do.  I use italics to denote thoughts.  How about you?


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## Lewdog (Mar 11, 2013)

I was part of one of these discussions, I think on this board, about the same thing.  Personally I like the idea of using quotation marks.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Mar 11, 2013)

I  report them indirectly, without any italics or quotation marks. For example:
*He'd made a mistake, she thought. Compound modifiers always had to be hyphenated.*

Sometimes I leave off the attribution if the POV is close and I think it's obvious enough that a character's thought is being reported. I.e.:
*She sighed. He'd been right. What an embarrassment.

*I've seen both quotes and italics used and while I'd probably skip them, even in a direct report, I don't think they're wrong or improper. It's just a style choice.


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## Sam (Mar 11, 2013)

Improper? It gets even more ridiculous. 

I use italics. Others use quotation marks. I've even seen novels with thoughts underlined. What difference does it make? To suggest it is 'improper' is probably the most pretentious thing I've ever heard in my life. 

(Not having a go at you, Terry).


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## Jon M (Mar 11, 2013)

.


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## Lewdog (Mar 11, 2013)

Jon M said:


> Prefer to paraphrase thought and make it all a seamless part of the narrative, rather than lean on fancy font trickery. In less apathetic days, I might have suggested once or twice that italicizing thoughts was lame or amateurish, but fortunately I am past all of that now and we should all do as we like and have many, many frothy beers afterward.



I prefer my beer with more alcohol and less rabies.   :albino:


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## Foxee (Mar 11, 2013)

Good question, I started to answer it but now my brain is being bombarded with my youngest yelling in my ear about what she wants next.

Thoughts? What ARE those? She drives them out of my life.

Perhaps back later with an actual answer. For now I'll just leave a nickle and say I don't like using quotes for this.

***

Well, crap, I just looked this up and I think the quotes are technically correct.

General Writing and Grammar Help: grammar "thought to himself", hodges harbrace handbook 16th edition, hodges harbrace handbook

I guess my thing is, I don't like writing out thoughts verbatim. If I'm in a character's POV already then I'm already in his/her/its head so anything that occurs in the narrative can be said to be known or thought by that person. I'm not writing verbatim thoughts for anyone else (though I imagine with some of the freaky premises out there I might end up in a situation where it's appropriate) because I generally write in a limited POV.

So, my way of dealing with thoughts is to make them more a part of the narrative flow, I guess. (I hope I said that right, I'm still being somewhat distracted) I'll just try writing something here and see if it gels as an example. If it stinks, don't throw rocks at me.

*Staying at home with kids means that you never have leftover pizza. That is, the parents never have leftover pizza. The clock said 2 pm. when a flicker in my peripheral vision revealed my twelve-year old eeling out of the room with a wary look over her shoulder and the last piece of pizza balanced on a plate that I might not see again until the next time I had her clean out under her bed.*

Looking back over this, just about any part of it could have been used in quotes as a verbatim thought:

*Staying at home with kids means that you never have leftover  pizza. That is, the parents never have leftover pizza. The clock said 2  pm. when a flicker in my peripheral vision revealed my twelve-year old  eeling out of the room with a wary look over her shoulder, ** the last piece of pizza balanced on a plate**. "Yep," I thought, "I won't see that plate again until the  next time I have her clean out under her bed.*"

I guess it comes down to taste and what you think is effective. I would prefer to use formatting like italics but if you're subbing to some places for publication they might have rules about formatting or formatting is easily screwed up so it's probably best to have a different plan A for this.

Do I get a piece of chocolate for answering the question?

***

Edit: Holy run-on sentence, Batman!

***

And Lasm probably said it more succinctly than I did:


> Sometimes I leave off the attribution if the POV is close and I think  it's obvious enough that a character's thought is being reported. I.e.:
> *She sighed. He'd been right. What an embarrassment.*


*

*This.


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## Terry D (Mar 11, 2013)

Sam said:


> Improper? It gets even more ridiculous.
> 
> I use italics. Others use quotation marks. I've even seen novels with thoughts underlined. What difference does it make? To suggest it is 'improper' is probably the most pretentious thing I've ever heard in my life.
> 
> (Not having a go at you, Terry).



That's why I don't spend much time at that other site.


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## Terry D (Mar 11, 2013)

Enjoy, Foxee!


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## Rustgold (Mar 11, 2013)

Surely it depends on your style of writing.

If you're doing first prospective and everything is the person's thoughts, then you'd be less likely to use them.
If you're generally in third prospective, and dipping into a specific thought, then you'd be more likely to use them.

If I use them, I use the single ' for thoughts, and the double " for speech.  But that's just me.


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## Terry D (Mar 11, 2013)

After reading through the thread at that other site, I did a few minutes of web searching and found several different opinions from various editors and authors.  The general consensus seemed to be that it is best to write thoughts (in a limited 3rd person narrative) into the narrative itself.  A quick perusal of books on my shelf showed that a number of very successful writers use italics, others do not.


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## Foxee (Mar 11, 2013)

Terry D said:


> After reading through the thread at that other site, I did a few minutes of web searching and found several different opinions from various editors and authors.  The general consensus seemed to be that it is best to write thoughts (in a limited 3rd person narrative) into the narrative itself.  A quick perusal of books on my shelf showed that a number of very successful writers use italics, others do not.


I think that the italics look nice, I just worry whether something will get lost if the piece needs to be turned in with a certain formatting, that maybe italics will get lost. If there's a good way to indicate this to the publisher and the message gets through, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't trust it much, though.

And thank you! There was no 'yum' button so I went for the 'like'.


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## Nee (Mar 11, 2013)

Italics are hard to read. Especially large blocks of them--not only do I not use them, but believe they are unnecessary. I weave character thoughts into the the main narrative body whether in 3rd or 1st person for a seamless flow.

And using quotes confuses readers into thinking that someone is talking.


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## Lewdog (Mar 11, 2013)

Nee said:


> Italics are hard to read. Especially large blocks of them--not only do I not use them, but believe they are unnecessary. I weave them into the the narrative body whether in 3rd or 1st person for a seamless flow.
> 
> And using quotes confuses readers into thinking that someone is talking.



Some one is talking, the voice inside of the MC's head.


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## Terry D (Mar 11, 2013)

Foxee said:


> I think that the italics look nice, I just worry whether something will get lost if the piece needs to be turned in with a certain formatting, that maybe italics will get lost. If there's a good way to indicate this to the publisher and the message gets through, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't trust it much, though.
> 
> And thank you! There was no 'yum' button so I went for the 'like'.



In what I learned back in the dark ages as Standard Manuscript Format, italics were denoted by underlining.  Hence;

James walked into the room and stopped cold.  The place was wrecked.  Not a single book remained on a shelf, his desk lamp had been shattered, and the desk itself was canted onto its side like a dying elephant.  Calavetti's been here, he thought.  And he's probably not far away.

Becomes;

James walked into the room and stopped cold.  The place was wrecked.  Not a single book remained on a shelf, his desk lamp had been shattered, and the desk itself was canted onto its side like a dying elephant.  _Calavetti's been here_, he thought.  _And he's probably not far away_.


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## Foxee (Mar 11, 2013)

Terry D said:


> In what I learned back in the dark ages as Standard Manuscript Format, italics were denoted by underlining.  Hence;
> 
> James walked into the room and stopped cold.  The place was wrecked.  Not a single book remained on a shelf, his desk lamp had been shattered, and the desk itself was canted onto its side like a dying elephant.  Calavetti's been here, he thought.  And he's probably not far away.
> 
> ...


Which is great if you're approaching a publisher who uses standard manuscript format, I agree. I don't know if I would trust some magazines or short story publishers to necessarily follow that (though I agree that they should) and even if they do, I'm convinced that I will somehow mess it up.

Just me, though.


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## Grape Juice Vampire (Mar 11, 2013)

I don't think it's improper so much as it is a style choice. I use italics as my brain finds them pleasing, and it makes sense to me that thoughts would be denoted that way in third. Out of curiosity and trying to figure out what does and does not work for me, i fiddled with the other ways and they didn't really fit for me.


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## Nee (Mar 11, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> Some one is talking, the voice inside of the MC's head.



Very few current best sellers use either italics or quotes for internal dialogue. The preferred method these days is to ease into deep POV a few sentences before an internal dialogue segment--but as always, do what you like.


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## Terry D (Mar 11, 2013)

Foxee said:


> Which is great if you're approaching a publisher who uses standard manuscript format, I agree. I don't know if I would trust some magazines or short story publishers to necessarily follow that (though I agree that they should) and even if they do, I'm convinced that I will somehow mess it up.
> 
> Just me, though.



In a long manuscript it can be a challenge to make sure I've used the underlining consistently.  I've found a number of places where I messed it up as I've been going through my current WIP.  I also agree that requirements and techniques are going to vary from outlet to outlet.  Most publishers (magazine) and agents (book ms) should have their needs spelled out in their submission guidelines.  I write all my ms in courier (it's what I learned) and use the underlining convention for that font.  For outlets which require another font, I'd probably go ahead and do the italicizing myself.


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## Lewdog (Mar 11, 2013)

Nee said:


> Very few current best sellers use either italics or quotes for internal dialogue. The preferred method these days is to ease into deep POV a few sentences before an internal dialogue segment--but as always, do what you like.




See you only said, "Very few current best sellers."  One thing I can tell you for a fact about literature, is it's like many other parts of the world, there are fads that come and go.  You just categorized yourself using the word 'current' meaning you are admitting that there are great writers out there that use other methods, so what's to say, five years from now the majority of best sellers won't be setting off inner thoughts with hash-tags?


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## Terry D (Mar 11, 2013)

Nee said:


> Very few current best sellers use either italics or quotes for internal dialogue. The preferred method these days is to ease into deep POV a few sentences before an internal dialogue segment--but as always, do what you like.



Stephen King, and Dan Simmons are two authors I know of right off the top of my head who use italics for thought.  But you are absolutely right in that the author should do what works for them, so long as it meets the requirements of the customer (publisher).


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## Nee (Mar 11, 2013)

Terry D said:


> Stephen King, and Dan Simmons are two authors I know of right off the top of my head who use italics for thought.  But you are absolutely right in that the author should do what works for them, so long as it meets the requirements of the customer (publisher).



Yes...I was thinking of King and Simmons when I was writing that.


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## Whisper (Mar 11, 2013)

The really only good thing about italics is that it allows you to get rid of the 'he/she thought tag. Unless more than one person is internalizing and you need to explain who is doing the thinking. 

Once the reader is knows italics is the persons thoughts, they can be done away with.

Also, the thing to remember a reader needs white space to break up the reading. To much prose, talking or internalizing and the reader will start skipping.


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## Nee (Mar 11, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> See you only said, "Very few current best sellers."  One thing I can tell you for a fact about literature, is it's like many other parts of the world, there are fads that come and go.  You just categorized yourself using the word 'current' meaning you are admitting that there are great writers out there that use other methods, so what's to say, five years from now the majority of best sellers won't be setting off inner thoughts with hash-tags?



Just as with every other time period in writing there were innovations in the way that writing could be thought of, which changed all writing from that point out. Deep POV is one of those innovations. I like reading authors that employ deep POV in their work. It fits rather nicely with the hard-boiled style for instance--which was the major literary innovation of 80 years ago.


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## Sam (Mar 11, 2013)

Nee said:


> Italics are hard to read. Especially large blocks of them--not only do I not use them, but believe they are unnecessary. I weave character thoughts into the the main narrative body whether in 3rd or 1st person for a seamless flow.
> 
> And using quotes confuses readers into thinking that someone is talking.



Hard to read? I think I've heard it all now. Seriously - hard to read? That's like saying Perpetua is hard to read and every novel should have Times New Roman as its typeface. And quite how you got from 'hard to read' to 'unnecessary' is beyond me.


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## JosephB (Mar 11, 2013)

Never have used italics. Not a big fan. But I usually use a really close-in POV, so it's clear who's doing the thinking -- although I use thought tags occasionally too.


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## Lewdog (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm going to start a new fad of writing all my inner thoughts at "one size font."  It will draw the reader in REALLY close to the book, yet still be hard to read.  I figure most people won't want to know my inner thoughts anyway.


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## Nee (Mar 11, 2013)

Sam said:


> Hard to read? I think I've heard it all now. Seriously - hard to read? That's like saying Perpetua is hard to read and every novel should have Times New Roman as its typeface. And quite how you got from 'hard to read' to 'unnecessary' is beyond me.



I ran a used book store for 6 years and *many* people complained about books that use too many italics and ones where the paragraphs were far too long--and whereas I am capable of writing stories that have no need for italics or thought tags, I therefore believe them to be unnecessary.

And it would be nicer to be a tad less confrontational in your responses.


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## Arcwood (Mar 11, 2013)

I like to use italics to illustrate characters thougths when it is in third person - that way I don't need to use description words such as"he thouhgt" or "so and so was thinking."
I prefer to be propper though and have always wondered about that myself.


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## Kevin (Mar 11, 2013)

Foxee said:


> Good question, I started to answer it but now my brain is being bombarded with my youngest yelling in my ear about what she wants next.
> 
> Thoughts? What ARE those? She drives them out of my life.
> 
> ...


 _Well it sounds like she's got her hands full. I know it's rude to give advice but I just have to say... 
_When dealing with unruly children and geese we've found the rolled up magazine an indispensable device.  

The question for me is not settled.


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## Foxee (Mar 11, 2013)

Kevin, a well-aimed flyswatter also hurts...er...works.


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 11, 2013)

> The building he was looking at was mid Victorian. “Drawn up large and well proportioned,” Terry put mental inverted commas around phrases like that, they were the sort of things he could imagine people saying, without identifying exactly who, phrases like, “A well known phrase or saying”. ------
> . The plastic bus shelter seat was getting hard and it was too high and at the wrong angle. “It’s a hard world,” thought Terry, “When the only place you have to go is the bus shelter and they make it so you can’t stay”. He stood up and went round the back of the shelter for his suitcase, he glanced up at “Mr Fusspot’s” window as he crossed the road. “And I wondered who he was waiting for,” he thought to himself, “Good to know I am still the main event, if he only knew, bit slow of me though, I must be getting old.”



I do it, and so do my characters


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## Angelwing (Mar 11, 2013)

Terry D said:


> At another writing forum I sometimes visit (rarely, but I do drop in every now and then) there's a discussion going on about how to show a character's thoughts in a story.  The general consensus at that site is that using italics is improper (whatever 'improper' means), and that all thoughts should be handled like other narration.  I was wondering what folks here do.  I use italics to denote thoughts.  How about you?



Screw them-I've always used italics for thoughts! Lol

I always use unquoted italics for characters' thoughts, and quoted italics for communication over radio and such. Like: 
_
But on those runs, no one was shooting at you_ (thought)

_"Negative, I repeat _negative-_that comes straight from the top!" _(non-face-to-face verbal communications)


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## squidtender (Mar 11, 2013)

I use italics for thoughts about once every few chapters. Typically, it's because I want the reader to know that the character is _really_ focusing on this one thought.


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## J Anfinson (Mar 11, 2013)

I don't think there's any rules for it, other than what a publisher might prefer. However, from all the books I've read I've noticed this: (and I may be completely wrong don't take this for gospel)

I've seen more italics used in 3rd person novels, and more narrated thoughts in 1st person. 

Like:  _"I should have known he'd be here,"_ _he thought._
or
He pulled a gun on me, and I punched him in the face, knocking him to the ground. I kicked him until he quit moving.
I sighed. He'd best hope he didn't get blood on my new shoes.

Pretty sure I've seen it both ways at one time or another though.


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## Angelwing (Mar 11, 2013)

squidtender said:


> I use italics for thoughts about once every few chapters. Typically, it's because I want the reader to know that the character is _really_ focusing on this one thought.



Good way to put it. I (maybe I speak for all who use italics for thoughts) use italics to focus on a single thought. The character's general thoughts on something can just be stated normally, like "blah did this, which character-x thought was ridiculous."


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## Kyle R (Mar 15, 2013)

Terry D said:


> At another writing forum I sometimes visit (rarely, but I do drop in every now and then) there's a discussion going on about how to show a character's thoughts in a story.  The general consensus at that site is that using italics is improper (whatever 'improper' means), and that all thoughts should be handled like other narration.  I was wondering what folks here do.  I use italics to denote thoughts.  How about you?



I believe that anything, fiction-wise, should be done to enhance the reader experience, and immersion in the storyworld.

If italicized thoughts help to do that, then it's fine to use them, I say.

For me, a more relevant issue is the use of thought _tags_, to attribute the thoughts to a character. Example:


A shiver crawled up Darlow's spine. _Something is strange about this place_, he thought. He cupped his hands around his mouth and shouted, "Hello? Is anyone here?"


When using deep POV, the use of tags creates "narrative distance" between the reader and the character, reminding her that she is reading a story. So, lately I've been wary about narrative distance, and have eliminated thought tags whenever possible, inserting the thoughts directly into the narrative, so it's as if the reader is automatically inside the character's head. Thoughts come through, unfiltered, unannounced.


A shiver crawled up Darlow's spine. Something was strange about this place. He cupped his hands around his mouth and shouted, "Hello? Is anyone here?"


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## Rustgold (Mar 15, 2013)

KyleColorado said:


> A shiver crawled up Darlow's spine. _Something is strange about this place_, he thought. He cupped his hands around his mouth and shouted, "Hello? Is anyone here?"



The words 'he thought' created the distance.

A shiver crawled up Darlow's spine. 'Something strange about this place'. He cupped his hands around his mouth and shouted, "Hello? Is anyone here?"

Mind you, I want to completely edit the entire paragraph (a different issue).


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## Staff Deployment (Mar 15, 2013)

Jon M said:


> Prefer to paraphrase thought and make it all a seamless part of the narrative





Foxee said:


> I guess my thing is, I don't like writing out thoughts verbatim. If I'm in a character's POV already then I'm already in his/her/its head so anything that occurs in the narrative can be said to be known or thought by that person.





Terry D said:


> The general consensus seemed to be that it is best to write thoughts (in a limited 3rd person narrative) into the narrative itself.





Nee said:


> I weave character thoughts into the the main narrative body whether in 3rd or 1st person for a seamless flow.





Angelwing said:


> The character's general thoughts on something can just be stated normally, like "blah did this, which character-x thought was ridiculous."





KyleColorado said:


> When using deep POV, the use of tags creates "narrative distance" between the reader and the character, reminding her that she is reading a story. So, lately I've been wary about narrative distance, and have eliminated thought tags whenever possible, inserting the thoughts directly into the narrative, so it's as if the reader is automatically inside the character's head. Thoughts come through, unfiltered, unannounced.



Yes. This is my favourite way, and in my opinion it's considerably more versatile and effective than italics or single-quotes or any other formatting trickery. But as it has come up and again and again, I assume we have discussed the various pros and cons and justifications ad nauseum.


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## Nee (Mar 15, 2013)

KyleColorado said:


> For me, a more relevant issue is the use of thought _tags_, to attribute the thoughts to a character. Example:
> 
> 
> A shiver crawled up Darlow's spine. _Something is strange about this place_, he thought. He cupped his hands around his mouth and shouted, "Hello? Is anyone here?"
> ...



I completely agree.


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## Nee (Mar 15, 2013)

Staff Deployment said:


> Yes. This is my favourite way, and in my opinion it's considerably more versatile and effective than italics or single-quotes or any other formatting trickery. But as it has come up and again and again, I assume we have discussed the various pros and cons and justifications ad nauseum.



"Yes..and we'll keep doing so until everybody does it my way!" he says pounding the table with his shoe.


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## HooktonFonnix (Mar 15, 2013)

My WIP is in first person, so I'm not dealing with this issue right now, but I always felt that character thoughts should be in italics. When I'm reading and I come across italics, my mind immediately recognizes the text as a thought, and it comes across very clean and smooth. I just finished reading "Childhood's End" by ACC, and he is obviously a fan of no italics, but he's a skilled enough writer that the transitions were easy enough for me to make as I read. It really does just come down to a style choice, though. Do what feels right, brah.


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## Morkonan (Mar 16, 2013)

Terry D said:


> ...  I use italics to denote thoughts.  How about you?



Internal monologues should always be in italics, in my opinion. However, emotions, visualizations, mental constructs and the like can be represented as they are, in plain text, sometimes with an attribution, if appropriate.

Jerry saw the monster. _What the heck is that?_

Jerry saw the monster. A brutish thing, much like his Uncle Ralph, except without as much hair.

Jerry saw the monster. He thought it would be possible to slip by it, unseen, if he could cause a diversion.

Jerry saw the monster. I bet I could slip by it, unseen, if I could cause a diversion, he thought.


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## luckyscars (Mar 16, 2013)

I tend to side with the school of thought that says context is sufficient to distinguish thoughts from plain narrative. But then, I also don't really care to use speech or exclamation marks either. I do agree that the one good use for italics is internal monologues. I can't offer a good reason for why I like them to be italicized, it just seems to better imply a more 'dreamlike' state I suppose.


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## bazz cargo (Mar 17, 2013)

As pointed out, finding out what the publisher preference is would help in the decision.  

I personally don't like to explore a characters thoughts; if I do it is with the aid of italics.  If I ever get something in front of a publisher/agent I will first find out what works for them.


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## Arcwood (Mar 17, 2013)

_I'm not up to date on this topic._ _but_
Italics are used in Harry Potter to illustrate thoughts


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## JosephB (Mar 17, 2013)

Harry Potter? Well, that settles it!


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## Nee (Mar 17, 2013)

I have two issues with Rowling's writing: One is her use of Swifties a tad too often, and the other is her over use of italics. But other than those, she can write a hell of good story.


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## JosephB (Mar 17, 2013)

I haven't read the books. But my wife is reading the first HP to our girls and they're all enjoying it.


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## Staff Deployment (Mar 17, 2013)

Please explain a swifty. It sounds like when you don't have time to set up a romantic mood.


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## Marakuti (Mar 18, 2013)

I hope posting here is still relevant. X)

For me, how I write my character's thoughts depends on how I write the story. Depending on the mood, my character's personality, or if I'm RPing or not, I usually write one of two ways: Objectively, or if I were the character myself. Whenever I write objectively I use italics, simply because I don't put the character's feelings into the writing (if that makes sense). Those kind of stories are usually told how they happened as they happened instead of delving into the character's personal feelings. I put thoughts in italics because that would be something the character was saying, not me (the narrator). 

When I'm writing as if I was the character, I just write it down with no special indication, since, when I write that way, it's unneeded. When I write as if I'm the character, the story's events and the character's personality mix (for lack of a better way to say it). I guess I could say it'd be like I was writing the story as if the MC and the narrator had the same personality. Instead of writing that the MC felt grief and using a few pretty descriptive sentences, I would write it the same way the MC would be thinking as they felt the same emotion. It's kind of like writing in first person, but using third person pronouns.

Assuming that all made sense, and making a long story and short one, it all depends on writing style and reader preference. I actually hate it when anyone writes thoughts in anything but italics and straight text, but that's because I'm a particular person. I've read a book by an author that just separated thought with commas (which frustrated me to no end). I've seen it done in quotations, in bold, in asterisks, in everything. All of them have made me irritated to some degree, but all of them are also acceptable.

So if someone gives you grief about how you write your character's thoughts, just roll your eyes, ignore them, and take a tally of all the people who adore your work in spite of it.


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## JosephB (Mar 18, 2013)

Staff Deployment said:


> Please explain a swifty. It sounds like when you don't have time to set up a romantic mood.



"Well, I know what a swifty is," Joe said, boastfully. "Although he had mostly heard it as _Tom Swifty_," he added emphatically.


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## Nee (Mar 18, 2013)

JosephB said:


> I haven't read the books. But my wife is reading the first HP to our girls and they're all enjoying it.



To any adult writers I advise to start with the fourth, Goblet of Fire, are a lot of interesting story elements in the third but, the fourth is where her writing starts to get particularly crafty. She is a very subtle and exacting writer with some pretty unusual ways of getting here to there. And she does dark as good as anyone--King wholeheartedly agrees on that point.


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## Nee (Mar 18, 2013)

JosephB said:


> Well, I know what a swifty is, Joe said, boastfully. Although he had mostly heard it as _Tom Swifty_, he added emphatically.



That'll be it.


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## Fressno (Mar 20, 2013)

ive usually use quotation to emphasize a thought or speech, but i add -he thought -he screamed out loud, etc afterwards.
but after this i might change to italics. thou italics makes me think of whipsering or someone talking with a low voice.
maybe its just me =)


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## Robert_S (Mar 20, 2013)

I suppose I've grown accustomed to thought being outside the narrative, therefore italicized for getting that point across. I suppose if they think it bad, there is ways to adapt around it, but you would still need some means of making sure it's not confused with the narrative. However, to say it's wrong as an absolute is something that should always be questioned. That's like saying it's always wrong to have a beer.


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## lowprofile300 (Mar 20, 2013)

Staff Deployment said:


> Please explain a swifty. It sounds like when you don't have time to set up a romantic mood.



That will be a Quickie


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## Rustgold (Mar 21, 2013)

Nee said:


> To any adult writers I advise to start with the fourth, Goblet of Fire, are a lot of interesting story elements in the third but, the fourth is where her writing starts to get particularly crafty. She is a very subtle and exacting writer with some pretty unusual ways of getting here to there. And she does dark as good as anyone--King wholeheartedly agrees on that point.



King is a Mills & Boons writer, and I'd take his recommendations with a bucket of salt.  As evidence, he condemned one writer for only writing two books in a number of years.  As the one writer's fans pointed out, they would be prepared to wait for X number of further years, such was the quality of the author King criticized (can't remember his authors name, someone here will no doubt know).
For a writer, why would you start anywhere with her books; her writings simply aren't up to writer's standards.  She's a storyteller, and it's this quality which saw her books being purchased.  Her actual writing however, is 2nd/3rd draft quality and horrible to read.


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## archer88iv (Mar 21, 2013)

Heh. Can't say as I've ever had more than two drafts of any one piece.  

I actually would advise writers to take a good look at any of the Harry Potter novels, whether or not they enjoy the story and characters. (I had to stop with #5, personally; too damn long a book to be about a bunch of kids.) Pay attention to the way the damn things are put together: how every paragraph, and then every chapter, too, ends in a cliffhanger. 

She's almost more fisherman than storyteller. She really knows how to set that hook.

I never italicize thought per se because, in using a limited third person perspective, I start with the assumption that *all* exposition is from the character's point of view. Why, then, bother about making a distinction between one thought and the next? I do sometimes italicize thoughts which are direct quotes, as it were, of a character's inner monologue--because it would be weird for one sentence in the middle of a third person novel to start with "I"--but that's not a technique I tend to employ often.


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## TheWritingWriter (May 29, 2013)

You know, in another forum, I am REPEATEDLY told that it ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt, incorrect to indicate thoughts by quotation marks & speech tags. It's like someone telling me that their opinion is a fact. It absolutely blows my mind. I agree with Sam on the idea that it really doesn't matter. Underline them, quote them, italicize them - it really depends on the author in my opinion.


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## philistine (May 29, 2013)

It's a dreadful business, thinking. Just the thought of it is enough to reduce you to despair.


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## Monster (Jun 7, 2013)

I prefer using italics to note thoughts, but I can see the problem associated with them. To each their own when it comes to their writing. I have seen thoughts expressed with quotations, italics, or simply noting 'he thought' in different books I've read.


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 7, 2013)

Good question. I use italics, and don't even remember where I learned to do that. Never even questioned it until now.


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