# 'Future Fantasy'



## Jeko (Dec 30, 2011)

I have recently realised that I don't really write sci-fi. Well, I do in some cases, but I feel more at home when I'm being fantastical. So I'm basically writing fantasy in the future, or 'future fantasy' as I would call it.

I was wondering if anyone else had a similar spectrum of writing, where they liked sci-fi, but prefered fantastical sci-fi. I know my writing is fantasy, because half the things I present I don't explain, and never intend to. And when I do explain the rest, it either doesn't make scientific sense, or it does, but only if you aren't super-critical of my use of science...


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## Dramatism (Dec 30, 2011)

This sounds interesting to me.  I have in a sense done fantastical sci fi, but in a different sense.  All my stories I have written thus far for fun (6), have involved sci fi forces, but I wouldn't classify most of these novels as sci fi.  But, a few of the people have been from the future.  One of them caused havoc in the past and was a vampire.  Usually a fantasy figure, I sci-fi'ed it in the sense that vampires came from a genetic modification going wrong, and one thing that changed about them was their ability to time travel and teleport (not really explained).  So, they went back in time, but people of the future went to retrieve them and change them back, but people still had a recollection of them so became a myth.  *Breath*.  

Can you tell me more of your way?  Do you have mythical creatures in them, or what makes them sci fi?


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## Jeko (Dec 30, 2011)

Here's the best explanation I can come up with:

There is a collection of alien races that are always in my writing, known as the *'ancients'*. They are the old races, which are all far more powerful than any of the other civilizations in the galaxy. Among them are the Opariste Legion, who are the greatest soldiers ever to exist, the Axunians, who are the masters of technology and can communicate with it in way that are unimaginable (a bit fantastical). A lot of the fantasy is centred around the common ancients and the Balon'Sha, who use the *Ancient Arts*; abilities that many would call magic (but the ancients despise anyone who calls their powers 'magic'). They are based on three concepts;

1) Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be transferred from one state to another. There exists a kind of energy known as 'mental *energy'*, which collects around the minds of all living things. This mental energy *responds to the thoughts *of the being it collects around, and can be instructed to *change*. For example, you can transfer mental energy into kinetic energy, which is the energy of moving things. Thus, you can blast someone backwards with mere thought. The same can be done with things like thermal energy, and other complex manipulations. *In summary, mental energy exists, and by telling it to do things, you can do what people would call magic.

*2) Whenever you think of something, that thought is manifested by mental energy and becomes a *wisp*. This wisp will exit the mindspace, and then re-enter it, to become only a memory. While it is away from the mind, it can be read or interferred with - it is *vulnerable to outside interference. *Thus, you can plug thoughts, commands and ideas into people. These wisps are the same as the signals generated by the senses. Therefore, you can interrupt the eyes sending a message to the brain about what is being seen, and change it, creating an *illusion*. You could make the person believe there is wall when there isn't one, or floor where there is a hole. *In summary, you can communicate with, change, and control other peoples' minds with the Arts.

*
Combining 1) and 2), you can do something like create a fireball. You bind mental energy to a point and turn it into thermal energy. But this doesn't make the fire; just the energy for it. So, you fool the minds of those around to believe it is fire by making such an illusion, changing their thoughts to see a burning ball of flame. You then move the point of focus towards your foe, thus striking them with a fireball. Most ancients have these operations stored in their mindspace so that they cna instantly use them. If they didn't, it would take a long time to use the Arts.

3) All things have *conciousness*, which is partially mental energy, and partially other things, some of which unknown. But there are different *'levels' *of conciousness, which form the rules of *'conciousness dominance'*. Greater conciousnesses can *control *other conciousnesses with no resistance, as long as they can use the Arts ot do so. Living things like human beings, and the alien races - inculding the ancients - have the *normal amount of conciousness*. Plants have slightly less. Hence, anyone who knows the Arts to the level of mental communication can control a plant. They can also understand its feelings, opinions and the other thoughts it has (since all things have conciousness, *all things have thoughts*. But things like plants and calendars cannot communicate, so many do not know that they have these thoughts). Inanimate things have even less conciousness than plants, and mental energy has less too, which is why you can tell it what to do. All other forms of energy have a greater conciousness than living things, so you can't tell fire what to do without having a greater conciousness. And *you can't change the power of your conciousness.* But there exist things with greater conciousnesses than us, like the *Orv* and the *Fayte*, two opposite powers who rule over galaxies (the Orv rule ours; they're the nice guys, which is why things here are nice). Greater conciousnesses can tell lesser conciousnesses what to do, which is why we can't fight the Orv or the Fayte. But they cannot fight us either, because *conciousnesses that are greater than the normal conciousness cannot harm or affect normal conciousnesses.* That's why the Fayte don't charge in and kill us. They can only fight the Orv. And Giegonns. *Giegonns *have the same conciousness as Orv and Fayte. They do something else special that I won't explain right now. Greater than the Orv and the Fayte and the Giegonns are the *High*, and Higher than the High are *Ath'Dar *and *Aes'Geth*. Ath'Dar rules the Fayte. Aes'Geth rules the Orv. All the Higher conciousnesses that are nice choose not to command those below them (because they're nice) and all the ones that are evil don't care, which is why it's bad for them to be in power. *In summary, greater coniousnesses can tell lesser conciousnesses what to do, so an Ancient can use the Arts to tell a window to open or have a conversation with a fridge.

*That just about covers it. If that makes sense, hooray!


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## Vertigo (Dec 30, 2011)

All SF is just fantasy set in the future.

So, yes. I would say that plenty of people share that range with you, myself included.


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## Vertigo (Dec 30, 2011)

Double post. Sorry. Firefox went screwy.


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## ShatteredUniverse (Dec 31, 2011)

*Science Fantasy*



Cadence said:


> I have recently realised that I don't really write sci-fi. Well, I do in some cases, but I feel more at home when I'm being fantastical. So I'm basically writing fantasy in the future, or 'future fantasy' as I would call it.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone else had a similar spectrum of writing, where they liked sci-fi, but prefered fantastical sci-fi. I know my writing is fantasy, because half the things I present I don't explain, and never intend to. And when I do explain the rest, it either doesn't make scientific sense, or it does, but only if you aren't super-critical of my use of science...



There's a name for this brand of fiction. It's called _Science Fantasy_, and happens to be my preferred fiction genre. ositive:


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## Dramatism (Dec 31, 2011)

Vertigo said:


> All SF is just fantasy set in the future.
> 
> So, yes. I would say that plenty of people share that range with you, myself included.



Not necessarily.  I think that true sci fi is something that has a possibility of happening in the future even if the odds of some parts are low.  Most things in sci fi is heavily explained and makes it seem like a true science that could come about in the future.  

Science fiction started in the 1950's when our technology became so great that some authors started to contemplate what our technology could do to us in the future, and most sci fi plots revolve around that, or aliens, and since space travel was on the horizon then, it would make sense that that would be apart of science fiction.

Fantasy is what would be considered to have zero possibility of ever happening.  Wolfs, unicorns, dragons- of course those don't exist, and won't ever, but they do in fantasy.


How I see it, Science Fantasy is a happy mirage of the two.  I think that they would most often be set in the future, but have major components to it that could never- have a zero percent chance- of existing.


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## Jeko (Dec 31, 2011)

Vertigo said:


> All SF is just fantasy set in the future.
> 
> So, yes. I would say that plenty of people share that range with you, myself included.




I find the difference between Sci-Fi and Science Fantasy (thanks, ShatteredUniverse) is the use of concepts; scince fiction is usualkly based on one, plausable concept - a 'what if'. Science Fantasy has a licence to use as much weird stuff as it likes. Some of the early sci-fi is actually what is happening right now; not the events, but the state humanity is in. 

That's what I was worrying about. Sci-fi implies that it makes sciencific sense, which my stuff doesn't (well, slightly). But because Science Fantasy does properly exist (who doesn't watch Doctor Who), I guess I should be fine. In fact, it's ficiton, so I should be alble to write whatever I want. I don't have to stick with any particular genre; the genre is created through the writing, not the other way round!

Thanks, guys. That's put me at ease.


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## moderan (Dec 31, 2011)

Dramatism said:


> Not necessarily.  I think that true sci fi is something that has a possibility of happening in the future even if the odds of some parts are low.  Most things in sci fi is heavily explained and makes it seem like a true science that could come about in the future.
> 
> Science fiction started in the 1950's when our technology became so great that some authors started to contemplate what our technology could do to us in the future, and most sci fi plots revolve around that, or aliens, and since space travel was on the horizon then, it would make sense that that would be apart of science fiction.
> 
> ...




You've confused some things that I feel the need to clarify. Yes, there is actual science in science fiction. Plausible, real, hence the name. SF was old by the 50s. The first bigname sf writer was probably Jules Verne. Wells after that. /short sf history lesson.
And I believe you mean "happy marriage", though "happy mirage" lends itself well to other interpretations.


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## Vertigo (Dec 31, 2011)

Saying that Star Trek or Star Wars are accurate representations of possible futures for the human race is... patently ridiculous, unless someone rewrites the science. There is such a things as facts-based SF- classic space opera and today's hard SF both tend to be more plausible than the average- but they represent only part of the scene. All of this, however, is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, which is that SF and F are both playgrounds for adolescent wanderings. The settings change but the ideas and characters mostly remain the same.

If what you're looking for is an example of fantasy written in a SF setting, then I can point you to arguably the best SF book (misnomer: it's a four-volume series) ever written- Gene Wolfe's _Book of the New Sun_. Or you could look at some things like Neal Stephenson's past couple of novels (Anathem and Reamde), both of which contain fantasy elements, but within a more realistic setting. (Also, I think the old Dragonriders of Pern books were F in SF, but I've never read them....) The other point is that there's plenty of marriages out there.

Also, why is it impossible for unicorns to have evolved elsewhere in the universe? Evolution is built, more or less, on sheer chance: in a (practically) infinite time scale, anything that can happen, will.

And where the hell did they teach you that wolves weren't real?


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## moderan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah, the rubber-science stuff definitely belongs to the realm of science fantasy-ST, SW, et al. Dr Who. Some is very good though. Gene Wolfe, as mentioned, has made a career out of it. George Martin of course morphed into sfantasy as is Piers Anthony. In all three cases I prefer the harder stuff but you gotta make a buck.
Could definitely make a case for an "evolutionary" unicorn. That's actually a good story idea.
I disagree that sf is a place for adolescent wanderings. In Hugo Gernsback's time, sure. But not since Tony Boucher's tenure at the Magazine of F&SF has there been a majority of bookform sf that was prone to the original trope. After Pohl at Galaxy and Terry Carr helming Ace, forget about it. I'll stop there before I get pedantic and start throwing out names and titles.
Fantasy still is (let's say arguably because it's just New years and I feel generous). I can't stand that about it. And these days it's female-oriented adolescent fantasy to boot. I'm not the target audience for that tripe.


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## Dramatism (Jan 1, 2012)

moderan said:


> You've confused some things that I feel the need to clarify. Yes, there is actual science in science fiction. Plausible, real, hence the name. SF was old by the 50s. The first bigname sf writer was probably Jules Verne. Wells after that. /short sf history lesson.
> And I believe you mean "happy marriage", though "happy mirage" lends itself well to other interpretations.



I know that there is actual science in science fiction, I never doubted that.  I just specified that some of the science we don't really know for sure since none of it exists.

Old by the 50's?  Hmm, maybe then it's that that's when it became popular?  I've never seen a sci fi book that was written before then.

I spelled happy 'marrage' before, and of course that's mispelled, and the stupid word checker thought I meant 'mirage' and not 'marriage'.  I thought it looked weird, but I knew people knew what I meant.


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## moderan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dramatism said:


> I know that there is actual science in science fiction, I never doubted that.  I just specified that some of the science we don't really know for sure since none of it exists.
> 
> Old by the 50's?  Hmm, maybe then it's that that's when it became popular?  I've never seen a sci fi book that was written before then.
> 
> I spelled happy 'marrage' before, and of course that's mispelled, and the stupid word checker thought I meant 'mirage' and not 'marriage'.  I thought it looked weird, but I knew people knew what I meant.



None of it exists? I'm not sure I'd get on board that train. Sf stories have predicted and/or followed current sciences throughout their history. Here are a couple of pages with evidence. And funny.

I'd bet you have read sf written before the 50s. You just didn't know it was sf. Ever read Frankenstein? My nomination for first true sf novel. War of the Worlds? 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Brave New World? Animal Farm? I could go on for a long time here. I'm an sf fan and popularizer, and thoroughly unashamed of that.
It is true that the genre has mushroomed during the 20th and 21st centuries, but it has been around for awhile. Here's a good list of pre-1950 sf.

LOL...we're _writers_. Specific words mean specific things. I've had people call me out here for _typos_. Which is ok. I hate them. But just sayin'.


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## Aderyn (Jan 1, 2012)

Genre can be restricting however it is important to consider when thinking about our target audience - it can also act as a kind of guide for our writing.  So the question is, when we write how conscious should we be of genre?  Well I agree with you Cadence when you said - 



Cadence said:


> it's ficiton, so I should be alble to write whatever I want. I don't have to stick with any particular genre; the genre is created through the writing, not the other way round!



I think this is good advice in general, just let yourself write the story you want to write and worry about the genre when it comes time to publish and promote.  Having said that, I agree with Dramatism that your story seems like a happy mirage (  ) of the two - Science Fantasy.

I really liked your 'rules' for magic.  It seems very clear.  The only thing that seemed (perhaps) a little dubious to me was this 





> *conciousnesses that are greater than the normal conciousness cannot harm or affect normal conciousnesses*


  I immediately wondered 'why?'  Certainly in fantasy virtually anything can be 'true', but readers still need to understand the rules - so this might need further clarification.

On another note -



Vertigo said:


> SF and F are both playgrounds for adolescent wanderings.



WT? :shock:  I think this is a little unsubstantiated.



moderan said:


> Fantasy still is (let's say arguably because it's just New years and I feel generous). I can't stand that about it. And these days it's female-oriented adolescent fantasy to boot. I'm not the target audience for that tripe.



Surely you're not reducing all of fantasy to Twilight?  Also moderan, would you really consider Animal Farm to be Science Fiction?  Seems like a bit of a stretch.  Certainly the other novels you mention but not Animal Farm.


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## moderan (Jan 1, 2012)

You caught that, did you? No, Animal Farm is pure and simple fantasy satire. I wanted someone to think about what they were reading. And no, I'm not reducing all fantasy to Twilight. There's Anita Blake too. And all of the faux-medieval faux-Tolkien crap that saturates the marketplace. The real good fantasy, if it so exists anymore, is hidden away under lock and key, or at least buried under all of that schlock.
One of my hobbyhorses.


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## Vertigo (Jan 1, 2012)

Aderyn said:


> WT? :shock:  I think this is a little unsubstantiated.



You have to read Orson Scott Card's intro to Speaker for the Dead. Then it makes more sense.


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## Jeko (Jan 3, 2012)

Hooray! I thought no-one would understand the Ancient Arts (because I get lost sometimes thinking about them). Thanks for brightening my day, Aderyn.

To clarify, the laws of conciousness dominance were not natural; they were enforced long, long ago by an unknown power. It is simply there to stop greater conciousnesses like the Fayte from being the only conciousnesses. Without that law, they'd just come in and kill us all. But they can't, because of that law. No-one would enjoy being thrashed by someone impossibly more powerful than you. This way, the Fayte can manipulate and control others, but they can't kill them, which gives them a lot of useful scope when it comes to plotlines.

On another note, I dislike the typical swords and sorcery fantasy, simply because it is hard to find anything new in it. I much prefer fantasy that is driven by original concept and enthralling characterisation; things that can't be done in real life, but are made to feel real in the fictional world. Hence why everyone who uses the Arts in my writing despises anyone who calls the Arts 'magic', even though the Arts are magical in nature. 

Fantasy is easy territory for adolescent wanderings, I guess, but also a powerful trap for the minds of anyone willing to walk into it. But a nice trap (if one ever existed). Sci-fi feels more intelligent often, and can require a greater focus to get into it. That's just my opinion anyway.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't like being restricted by genre.  It's too limiting, and often misguiding.  For example, consider C. S. Lewis's space trilogy.  It's considered science fiction because much of the action happens on other planets (Mars and Venus), and the main character happens to use a spaceship to get there in the first book.  The series itself, however, is NOT science fiction.  It's a lot heavier on mythology and philosophy, with elements that are far more fantastical than technology-oriented.

For my own part, I consider my current novel "metascience fiction."  The only "advanced" technology is powered by metaphysical means, and arguably could exist with modern technology if we had the necessary knowledge.  There aren't any space ships or laser cannons or teleporters or anything like that.  It's just a story set in recognizable cities on earth with a few technological allowances to make things interesting.


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## Walkio (Jan 3, 2012)

I think someone has mentioned it, but your chosen genre is called science-fantasy.

And luckily fantasy is still a very popular genre despite Twilight giving it a bad name. Harry Potter, His Dark Materials, The Hunger Games, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Dresden Files, Codex Aleara, The Wheel of Time, Shannara, The Gentleman Bastard Sequence are all extremely popular (and actually well-written) contemporary fantasy series.


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## Aderyn (Jan 3, 2012)

Cadence said:


> Hooray! I thought no-one would understand the Ancient Arts (because I get lost sometimes thinking about them). Thanks for brightening my day, Aderyn.


You're welcome 



> To clarify, the laws of conciousness dominance were not natural; they were enforced long, long ago by an unknown power. It is simply there to stop greater conciousnesses like the Fayte from being the only conciousnesses. Without that law, they'd just come in and kill us all. But they can't, because of that law. No-one would enjoy being thrashed by someone impossibly more powerful than you. This way, the Fayte can manipulate and control others, but they can't kill them, which gives them a lot of useful scope when it comes to plotlines.


 This makes sense 



> On another note, I dislike the typical swords and sorcery fantasy, simply because it is hard to find anything new in it. I much prefer fantasy that is driven by original concept and enthralling characterisation; things that can't be done in real life, but are made to feel real in the fictional world. Hence why everyone who uses the Arts in my writing despises anyone who calls the Arts 'magic', even though the Arts are magical in nature


. 
I agree that interesting characters maketh the fantasy, but this is true of any genre.  It is difficult to carve out your own original 'world' in fantasy as so many 'typical' fantasy stories have done it before.  But it is possible to make your own story and characters.  I don't mind a bit of 'swords and sorcery' though.  I think it's fair to assume that any fantasy story will have elements that will overlap with other fantasy stories, I think it would be impossible not to.


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## Cran (Jan 3, 2012)

The so-called "golden era" of science fiction (the 1950s) can be laid at the feet of two editors who began publishing pulp magazines (which were previously dominated by Westerns and Adventure stories). The big SF authors of the 60s and 70s started out writing short stories for Astounding Stories, Amazing Stories, and similar titles. Many of the short stories were written as series or serials, and were later published as novels. One of the editors was John W Campbell, and although I know the other, the name simply won't pop into my head right now.

The whole group of science fiction, science fantasy, and horror fiction, has at times been lumped together as "speculative fiction".


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## archer88iv (Jan 4, 2012)

Now, see, I always heard that "science fiction," strictly speaking, is fiction in which the plot is driven by science. That definition, of course, does not include almost everything we refer to generally as "science fiction." 

"Space opera" is the umbrella term for the rest, according to the hardcore SF nerds. 

I like the term "space opera." I may not sing, but, by God, I can write opera.


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## Jeko (Jan 4, 2012)

I sometimes find myself writing a sort of space-opera, what with the scale of the events and concepts etc., but then I go into incredible detail about particualr places. Freelancer, for example, is set in a massive galaxy, but focuses on the Freelancer's Guild. Does space opera have to be big? Or can it just be about the impression of the world created through the writing?


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## Robdemanc (Jan 4, 2012)

I think most SF stories involve fantasy.  Some of the hardest SF employs a fantasy element.  Can't think of many exceptions.  

My writing is SF (fantasy) but I try to tell it as if it all has a scientific basis without going into boring details.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 4, 2012)

Robdemanc said:


> My writing is SF (fantasy) but I try to tell it as if it all has a scientific basis without going into boring details.



And that's important.  It's one thing to be able back your science; it's another thing to hit the reader over the head with it (which I absolutely hate).


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## Robdemanc (Jan 4, 2012)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> And that's important.  It's one thing to be able back your science; it's another thing to hit the reader over the head with it (which I absolutely hate).



I know.  But I sometimes wonder if it was read by someone well up on physics or chemistry etc they may object to what I am saying.  I do much in the way of research and love science and I think what I propose in my stories is within reason.


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## Dramatism (Jan 4, 2012)

Cran said:


> The so-called "golden era" of science fiction (the 1950s)



See, THIS is what I was talking about before.  I didn't mean to say that sci fi didn't exist before then, but it became popular then.  I remember where I learned it from, last year in English we learned about the American Literary periods and that was one of them, and it was in the 1950's!


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## Jeko (Jan 6, 2012)

I think I need to read more into the history of sci-fi. It should help my perspective when looking at what I am writing and exactly what it fits into.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 6, 2012)

Cadence said:


> I think I need to read more into the history of sci-fi. It should help my perspective when looking at what I am writing and exactly what it fits into.



It might, but why is that important? Write what you want to write, and let the publishers classify it.


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## Vertigo (Jan 6, 2012)

Cadence said:


> I sometimes find myself writing a sort of space-opera, what with the scale of the events and concepts etc., but then I go into incredible detail about particualr places. Freelancer, for example, is set in a massive galaxy, but focuses on the Freelancer's Guild. Does space opera have to be big? Or can it just be about the impression of the world created through the writing?



Space opera is (classically, as I understand it) western-type action stories in space, with spot lectures on basic scientific concepts. Think Star Wars, but with real lasers and gravity that doesn't come on at the flick of a switch (or, think Firefly). I've never read a lot of the old stuff, but I would advise you to read a couple of anthologies, _The New Space Opera_ and _The New Space Opera 2_, which feature top-of-the-line SF writers flinging riffs off the wall.

So to answer your question, no. Space opera can be as big or as little as you want it to be. The scale of the stories that can be told is enormous, but you can also write about one traveler's day in his ship as he's heading into port after a long stay in the black.


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## ShatteredUniverse (Feb 14, 2012)

Walkio said:


> I think someone has mentioned it, but your chosen genre is called science-fantasy.
> 
> And luckily fantasy is still a very popular genre despite Twilight giving it a bad name. Harry Potter, His Dark Materials, The Hunger Games, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Dresden Files, Codex Aleara, The Wheel of Time, Shannara, The Gentleman Bastard Sequence are all extremely popular (and actually well-written) contemporary fantasy series.



That'd be me.


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## Future Author (Feb 14, 2012)

I do the exact same thing, with a similar interest in sci-fi fantasy topics. I write about things that are scientifically impossible to explain, there is no such thing as magic or creatures such as the ones in my books. I'm glad that others have the same interest as myself, and keep on writing!
Cheers!
~Future Author~


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