# Trick Question



## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

[disc] *Adult Themed* [/disc]

Also known as The Conflict/Concord Spectrum.

Only to be attempted by writers, repeat writers, with wide experience of life. 

I call it a trick question because I’m hoping to gain support for some views I have about writing, which your answer may provide. Depending on your answer, I may then have another question.

Here’s the first question:

What do you know of the different techniques that, IN REAL LIFE, different women might use to provoke/initiate a sexual encounter with a man already known to them? (Or, if you wish, that different men might use with a woman, although it seems to me that this is an area where women excel.) In a few words for each, describe at least two of them. Note the question is about provocation or initiation, not about the act itself.

Thank you.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

reading suggestions


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

No, Joe, that's nothing to do with it.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

I'm kidding, OX. The implication being that your question has nothing to do with writing, you're just bird-dogging chicks.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

Well, answer the question then, and then we'll find out who's kidding, won't we?

Edit: You didn't fully take in the post, did you?


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

Maybe. Maybe not. I didn't give it much thought. I've come to the conclusion that answering your trick questions is a thankless task.


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

"...types of women..."? Stereotype people much?

It could possibly be that characters are as individual as real people and therefore might each have their own quirks and approaches.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

Foxee, I've edited out 'types of'. It's now simply 'different women'.

You might also note my question related to life ("wide experience of life"), not to characters.


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## Patrick (May 13, 2010)

Whisper in your ear they're not wearing any underwear.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

That really, _really_ works.


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

> What do you know of the different psychological techniques... provoke/initiate a sexual encounter


Sounds like head games. Like flirting with someone else to provoke a jealous response from someone else? Honestly, this seems fairly straightforward unless the guy is resistant for some reason (is married to someone else and wants to be faithful, boss resisting the advances of an employee, etc.) and psychology doesn't seem to have nearly as much to do with it as suggestiveness does.



> with a man already known to them?


Might depend on how they're already known to them.


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## Patrick (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> That really, _really_ works.



Not if you reply with: I wondered what that smell was.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

Mermaid on the breakwater said:


> Whisper in your ear they're not wearing any underwear.



Finally, one answer that fits with some of what I'm looking for. It's a start.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Finally, one answer that fits with some of what I'm looking for. It's a start.



I've found that, unfortunately, it doesn't work on women.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

Foxee said:


> psychology doesn't seem to have nearly as much to do with it as suggestiveness does.


 
Okay, scrub "psychological." And note I used the word "initiate" as well as "provoke."

I used "already known" to differentiate from pick-up lines.


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> I've found that, unfortunately, it doesn't work on women.


You're so right. We just find it creepy.


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## Patrick (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> I've found that, unfortunately, it doesn't work on women.


 

That's because she's thinking: you're always putting your hand down there.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

Foxee said:


> You're so right. We just find it creepy.



For the record, I've never, ever done it -- and if I had to, because of some circumstances beyond my control, I sure as hell wouldn't tell anybody about it.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> For the record, I've never, ever done it -- and if I had to, because of some circumstances beyond my control, I sure as hell wouldn't tell anybody about it.



So no Commando Joe?


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

[ot]Commando Joe...the new action figure from Mattel. Ages 18 and up.[/ot]


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## Patrick (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> For the record, I've never, ever done it -- and if I had to, because of some circumstances beyond my control, I sure as hell wouldn't tell anybody about it.


 
You definitely tried it one drunk, awkward night.

Here's another one for you, Ox:

"I am really clammy and wet."

"In the bathroom, there's a towel on the rack."

You can see the difficulties we have when women are subtle.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

Sigg said:


> So no Commando Joe?



No sir. 

But it's interesting that it works with women, though. I don't why, but it sure does. I mean, not really as a matter of habit, but for special occasions. Birthdays and such.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> For the record, I've never, ever done it -- and if I had to, because of some circumstances beyond my control, I sure as hell wouldn't tell anybody about it.



I gave up underpants about 20 years ago. See, what's so hard about saying that?

And, please, don't anyone tell the old chestnut about the ballroom in St. Mary's Cathedral.


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

*holds nose*


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

Seriously OX -- usually, unless a woman is just blatantly looking for only sex, but stopping short of just saying so, she's going to send out a series of subtle signals and gauge the reaction -- and then she might ramp it up a bit. That might begin with something as simple as a touch on the arm. She might slip some innuendo into the conversation. She might walk away with a little extra swing in her hips and smile back over her shoulder at you. All those little things add up to mean something -- that she's interested in sex -- at least at some point.


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

Yep, women can be subtle because guys infer a lot from something as small as meeting eyes a half-beat longer than usual. It's not complicated.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> Seriously OX -- usually, unless a woman is just blatantly looking for only sex, but stopping short of just saying so, she's going to send out a series of subtle signals and gauge the reaction -- and then she might ramp it up a bit. That might begin with something as simple as a touch on the arm. She might slip some innuendo into the conversation. She might walk away with a little extra swing in her hips and smile back over her shoulder at you. All those little things add up to mean something -- that she's interested in sex -- at least at some point.


Okay, that's one way.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

Foxee said:


> Yep, women can be subtle because guys infer a lot from something as small as meeting eyes a half-beat longer than usual. It's not complicated.


Yes it is, because often what they infer, and what the women implied, are worlds apart.
Ask any lawyer specialising in rape cases.


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

No...that's not making it complicated. That's a guy taking what's not being given. Worlds apart there with which 'it' we're talking about.

From experience (which you wanted, Ox) I'd say that men are on some level almost always aware of possible cues and clues that a woman is interested. That's why I say it isn't complicated...I mean it is not a complicated matter for a woman to provoke sexual interest in the scenario you seem to be asking for. Provoking a man's interest isn't a one-sided event, she implies, he infers.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Okay, that's one way.



The point is, there are _lots_ of ways. Use your imagination or think back. What do you all do down there -- club the opposite sex over the head?


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## Idle Tinkerer (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> The point is, there are _lots_ of ways. Use your imagination or think back. What do you all do down there -- club the opposite sex over the head?


 
Of course not. Do you know how hard it is to stuff a body into a kangaroo?


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## Baron (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> The point is, there are _lots_ of ways. Use your imagination or think back. What do you all do down there -- club the opposite sex over the head?


 
Bear in mind you're talking to an Aussie.  The Aussie definition of foreplay is to unzip the fly.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

Heh. I once was at bar with girl, and after she did a shot, she seductively licked the bottom of the shot glass and smiled at me. I thought, it's on. Then she did it again when she didn't even know I was looking. Turns out, she was just a hopeless alcoholic.


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## alanmt (May 13, 2010)

According to people around me, I am fairly oblivious to subtle techniques or messages.

here are some rather obvious ones employed by random females in my life:

1. we should fuck sometime.

2. I really feel like kissing you right now.

3. I've always been attracted to you, but when you're single, I'm not; when I'm single you're not. I wonder what it would be like if . . .

4. My husband was totally opposed to a threesome with another guy, but he's been thinking about it and said that he thinks he would be cool with it if the guy was you.

5. Why haven't you and I ever, you know, gotten together . . . ?

6. That night we met, I was really interested in you, but you were with X. I wish things had been different.


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## Teve Torbes (May 13, 2010)

3 pounds lean beef, coarsely ground or cut in small cubes
1/4 cup chopped onion
3 tablespoons vegetable oil
6 cups water
2 bay leaves
1/4 cup chili powder
1 tablespoon salt
8 to 10 cloves garlic, minced
1/2 teaspoon ground cumin
1 teaspoon oregano leaves, crushed
1/2 teaspoon ground cayenne pepper
1/4 teaspoon black pepper
1 tablespoon sugar
3 tablespoons sweet Hungarian paprika
3 tablespoons flour
6 tablespoons cornmeal


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

What is meatballs for 500, Alex?


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

alanmt said:


> According to people around me, I am fairly oblivious to subtle techniques or messages.
> 
> here are some rather obvious ones employed by random females in my life:
> 
> ...


If I had to be that forward I'd never get any.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

moderan said:


> What is meatballs for 500, Alex?


 
Seems like a lot of water, though.

PS - Maybe he's saying the way to a man's heart is through his stomach, in this case using watery meatballs.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

ooohhh sweet Hungarian paprika!


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

*makes a note that men like...watery meatballs? Shrugs and writes it down*


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

I dunno...that is a lot of water. Looks like it'd be ok once it was cooked as the collective ingredients are tasty. But an aphrodisiac? I dunno. Just plain chocolate would be better.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

chocolate meatballs?


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

I'd give that a shot. I had chocolate covered bacon yesterday. OMG. just OMG.


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## Gumby (May 13, 2010)

chocolate anything is an aphrodisiac to me.


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## Patrick (May 13, 2010)

Food does not increase a male's desire to have sex, although eating a healthy amount of unsaturated fat does raise testosterone levels.


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

I beat unsaturated fats at pool the other night.


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

Gumby said:


> chocolate anything is an aphrodisiac to me.


 Hear, hear!


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> [disc]  *Adult Themed* [/disc]
> 
> Also known as The Conflict/Concord  Spectrum.
> 
> ...


 Cut to the chase already.


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

moderan said:


> I beat unsaturated fats at pool the other night.


LOL!!


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## Kat (May 13, 2010)

"The kids are all asleep" 

Really men are easy, just flirt, wink. Ask them in, or invite them to a hotel, or go park. 

If you've known the person and already have a sexual relationship then it's pretty much a given that any time you ask for it the man will be happy to provide. I suppose that's rather sexist to think that. But in my experience it's rather easy. Just say hey you wanna go to they bedroom. You do not have to make it difficult.


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## NathanBrazil (May 13, 2010)

Oh, I see.

"Come to my bed!"

--What?

"Come to my bed??"

--Who are you?

"Somebuddy tole me that would work."

_Door slams._

_"Maybe the next door will be better."_


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

Okay, so far no one has apparently thought of this, so I’ll have to mention it myself.

What about the woman (or even a man maybe, but I’m thinking it’s a female thing) who will initiate a disagreement/argument/fight as a way to sexually arouse either or both parties? Some of you must have had experiences similar to that. And if so, could you describe some of what took place?


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

Only when there has already been a previous sexual relationship, unless you're talking about early teens.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

I think that only works in the movies.


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## seigfried007 (May 13, 2010)

I'm never remotely horny when we're fighting (though I might be frustrated and even occasionally want sex, I won't want it from him), Ox. Like Joe said, it seems like a 'movies' thing. Some people roll the rage-sex thing, but, while it sounds great in film and I've had a few characters who were into that kind of thing, it's just not my bag, baby.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

I've had the proverbial "make up sex," but that's different. Starting a fight to get around to that would be a really bad idea -- one that could easily backfire.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

you only get make up sex if the fight came to some sort of amicable end.  I'm guessing it's so good because if you had a fight and came out the other end still together then you grew emotionally as a couple, intense emotions make sex more passionate, at least for women, and when they are passionate it is usually more fun for guys too.

But I'm with Joe, doing it on purpose could not only backfire but it would probably be ineffectual because the emotional growth would be fake since you started the fight on purpose.


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## Kat (May 13, 2010)

If my husband and I are fighting sex is the last thing on my mind. I don't even do make up sex. I know very few women who even want make up sex.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

Kat said:


> If my husband and I are fighting sex is the last thing on my mind.


 
An experience like this is of little value here. It makes the fight the dominant action, whereas my line of thinking makes the thought of sex dominant.


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## Kat (May 13, 2010)

Okay then if I am interested in sex fighting is the last thing on my mind. Those are complete opposite ends of the spectrum.


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## Blood (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Okay, so far no one has apparently thought of this, so I’ll have to mention it myself.
> 
> What about the woman (or even a man maybe, but I’m thinking it’s a female thing) who will initiate a disagreement/argument/fight as a way to sexually arouse either or both parties? Some of you must have had experiences similar to that. And if so, could you describe some of what took place?


Well, since you asked, the other morning my wife says to me, "Oh, you think you so smart..." just out of nowhere.  Of course I already know where she's going with this, so I turn around and smack the bitch upside her head.  She immediately drops to her knees and slurp, slurp, slurp... all while I'm brushing my teeth too.  Works every time.


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## The Backward OX (May 14, 2010)

Now, finally, we're getting somewhere. :cheers:


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

Blood said:


> She immediately drops to her knees and slurp, slurp, slurp...



Did you spill your beer?


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## Mike C (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Okay, so far no one has apparently thought of this, so I’ll have to mention it myself.
> 
> What about the woman (or even a man maybe, but I’m thinking it’s a female thing) who will initiate a disagreement/argument/fight as a way to sexually arouse either or both parties? Some of you must have had experiences similar to that. And if so, could you describe some of what took place?



New one on me. Uless they suggest we settle the argument by wrestling naked. I think, in honesty, women are more subtle, and premeditate less, than that. I also think that maybe you're projecting, Ox.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

Yeah, like I said, it's fantasy. like in old movies when the couple is having a knock-down-drag-out and all of a sudden, the man grabs the women, kisses her and then it fades to black. I guess it might work if you're Clark Gable or Humphrey Bogart -- but not in the real world.


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## The Backward OX (May 14, 2010)

I guess that old time movie director/writer/whoever had to have been really, really clever, to have come up with such an idea out of nowhere, huh? Just a blank canvas for a mind, and suddenly, Bingo!


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## Baron (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> I guess that old time movie director/writer/whoever had to have been really, really clever, to have come up with such an idea out of nowhere, huh? Just a blank canvas for a mind, and suddenly, Bingo!


 
That's how most ideas happen, Edna.  John Wayne could suggest it in some of his movies and Clint Eastwood could do it.  Real people can end up in court.


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## The Backward OX (May 14, 2010)

Baron said:


> That's how most ideas happen, Edna.


So you really believe that a whole new idea can fortuitously come into being, just like that, pooof!, with absolutely no other previous and remotely similar occurrence to trigger it off? Amazing.


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## Foxee (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Yes it is, because often what they infer, and what the women implied, are worlds apart.
> Ask any lawyer specialising in rape cases.


 


Baron said:


> That's how most ideas happen, Edna.  John Wayne could suggest it in some of his movies and Clint Eastwood could do it.  Real people can end up in court.



Ox has pre-agreed to this point. How efficient is that?


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## Baron (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> So you really believe that a whole new idea can fortuitously come into being, just like that, pooof!, with absolutely no other previous and remotely similar occurrence to trigger it off? Amazing.


 
It's called imagination.


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## BitofanInkling (May 14, 2010)

lol I'm a girl and I have no idea what techniques I'd use- I tend to go for the 'form a relationship with them'.


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

Hate and passion aren't a million miles away, but if you're in a good fight and she's got a good throwing arm, the idea of sex doesn't really cross your mind as staying alive becomes your priority. Females: throwing pots and pans since... can we put a year on that?

People can have all sorts of fantasies, Ox. The level of applicability to the real world isn't always that great. Everybody knows about Superman but nobody saw somebody flying through the sky with his pants over his trousers when he was conceived.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> I guess that old time movie director/writer/whoever had to have been really, really clever, to have come up with such an idea out of nowhere, huh? Just a blank canvas for a mind, and suddenly, Bingo!



It's not out of nowhere. 

Where did it come from? Some women have rape fantasies. It doesn't mean they actually want to be raped. Men have them too, but that's generally not acknowledged. This thing about slapping sense into a women and then making passionate love to her stems from that kind of fantasy. What they could present on screen, especially in those days,  is just a watered-down version of it. There is nothing new under the sun. Just varying presentations of things.


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

Mike C said:


> New one on me. Uless they suggest we settle the argument by wrestling naked.



That'd do it.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

Making up afterward -- that's generally the only way sex comes out of fighting.


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## Foxee (May 14, 2010)

JosephB said:


> Making up afterward -- that's generally the only way sex comes out of fighting.


I'd have to agree. And not until we feel like we're really okay with each other again. Residual bad feelings put me off the idea of sex.

Actually, I find humor a heck of a lot sexier than anger.

Edit: you just have to know what to laugh at and what not to


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## alanmt (May 14, 2010)

A woman once told me that one of her secrets was touching the man's forearm, the muscle above the wrist but below the elbow joint. casual enough to disclaim interest if she changes her mind, but a subtle display of ownership and intimacy that makes the guy wonder what is going to happen next and to bring a physical encounter within that realm of possibility.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

Heh. Alan, I'm about to post a story in which just that happens. I met my wife on a blind date, and I remember distinctly, at some point in the later part of the evening she did just that. 

I remember too, like it was five minute ago, what she did when we were standing at her door at the end of the evening. She just took a half-step toward me, smiled and lifted her chin a fraction of an inch. That's all it took for me to know that she wanted to be kissed. Like we've been saying, it's all about the subtle signals we send.


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

JosephB said:


> it's all about the subtle signals we send.



That's why I stare at them... like a snake does to a mouse.


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## seigfried007 (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> An experience like this is of little value here. It makes the fight the dominant action, whereas my line of thinking makes the thought of sex dominant.


 
If I'm wanting sex, sex is on the brain. If I'm spoiling for a fight, everything that's pissing me off is on the brain. I don't want sex when I'm spoiling for a fight, pissed off, fighting, whatever. 

When I'm pissed off, I'm usually cleaning or, rarely, writing. My husband knows this and has admitted to purposefully pissing me off just so I would clean and leave him alone. He doesn't get sex after pissed-off-cleanings, but he probably gets a clean house and a cold shoulder. 

However, sometimes if I have a clean house because I wanted to clean and got the blood moving getting it clean, I might be in a good mood and might even want sex. I don't clean with the intention of getting in the mood though.

When I'm trying to get in the mood, I generally start singing really loud in my car alone on the commute home from work. Singing by myself loosens some inhibitions that keep me from singing where others can hear me. Driving will occasionally get me in the mood--esp fast, dangerous driving at night. 

I'm usually too subtle about letting him know that I want some action.  Usually it's slip in some innuendo, mention underwear, shave lady bits, flash underwear, 'I was really horny at work all day'/'Gee, it's been awhile since we had sex'/'I'm off my period'/'You know, I had the hugest craving to give head today'. Nothing's guaranteed to work and sometimes trying to pry him of his current train of thought is irritating enough that I'm no longer in the mood when he finally realizes 'Hey, she said something about sex!'


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## Foxee (May 14, 2010)

I pretty much agree with what Seig just said.

Here's another idea...if a woman slips into some scanty lingerie, sits on your lap, and sings this song she might be interested. If she does that and you're still not sure...ask.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

All my wife has to do is run her tongue around my ear and whisper something naughty. 

I fact, I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it -- and if I was at home right now, I'd likely try something.


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

seigfried007 said:


> I'm usually too subtle about letting him know that I want some action.  Usually it's slip in some innuendo, mention underwear, shave lady bits, flash underwear, 'I was really horny at work all day'/'Gee, it's been awhile since we had sex'/'I'm off my period'/'You know, I had the hugest craving to give head today'. Nothing's guaranteed to work and sometimes trying to pry him of his current train of thought is irritating enough that I'm no longer in the mood when he finally realizes 'Hey, she said something about sex!'


 
Yeah, because telling somebody you've had a huge craving to give head is really subtle.  I would never guess you were talking about something sexual there.


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## Sigg (May 14, 2010)

there ought to be a big "Oversharing Ahead!" disclaimer on this thread haha


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## Eluixa (May 14, 2010)

There is a very big difference between a fight/argument, and banter that could lead to arousal. Like so many have said, if it is a fight, the sex is off. If I think you are really mad at me, dissappointed in me, unhappy with me then it's a no way. If because I know you really well, and I know you are teasing, in a good mood, and in it for fun, then just keep it light, keep it funny and watch your step, cause it could go the other way so fast. 
However, this is after knowing someone for years, and knowing them really well. Knowing their buttons, and where not to hit.
And here's another thing, if you did get laid, don't blow it by thinking you can get pissy afterwards. If you had something to tell her, be a man and tell her beforehand, and take what you do, or don't get as your due. She thinks she is beloved when you sleep with her, so don't fuck it up. There... that felt good.

I was, and still am fairly subtle, and expect a man to be paying attention. And to be bold because it is very unlikely I'd touch you without hints either. Eye contact, smiling, laughing, and the fact that I am there with you listening to your bs, and did not walk off, is a good hint. 
Oh, and if I want sex, I won't care much what you talk about, I'll humor you if your not a complete ass, I'll listen. If I was not after sex in particular though and was looking for a good man for keeps, what you say matters like rain and sun and shelter. If I like you, like you, I'll talk with you and expect you to listen.


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## Blood (May 14, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> So you really believe that a whole new idea can fortuitously come into being, just like that, pooof!, with absolutely no other previous and remotely similar occurrence to trigger it off? Amazing.


Ox, are you trying to write the most passionate love scene ever?  If so, then go from one extreme to the next. If not, then never mind.


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## The Backward OX (May 15, 2010)

Baron said:


> It's called imagination.


 
Well, I'm sorry to contradict you but consensus around here is that there's no such thing as a new idea and that creating something out of nothing is an impossibility.

http://www.writingforums.com/showth...ng-new-ideas&p=1355454&viewfull=1#post1355454


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## moderan (May 15, 2010)

There are new ideas periodically...not often. Creating something from nothing is unlikely, but through synthesis there are plenty of new combinations.


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## The Backward OX (May 15, 2010)

I think that's what they call hedging your bets.


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## moderan (May 15, 2010)

Hmm. I'd call it being careful not to rule anything out but that could be termed as semantic hairsplitting. I've got a couple of what I think may be new ideas but I cannot share them atm. It's entirely possible that they may be synthesized also.


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