# When one's writing stinks. ..



## PenCat (Feb 4, 2015)

I have a story and a scene in my head. .I know how it feels, what it looks like and what my implied narrative is about. 

Everything I put on paper stinks. 

Do I barrel ahead and write until there's no stink left? 

 I'm not blocked. .. maybe unfocused and not finding the words that have the right melody or feel to paint the scene the right way. 

What's the best thing to do when your writing stinks?


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## Morkonan (Feb 4, 2015)

PenCat said:


> ...What's the best thing to do when your writing stinks?



Keep writing until it doesn't stink anymore. Bad writing washes out with hard work. 

What, you thought it was easy? If writing was easy, everyone would do it. Uh... Wait a sec. 

Writing _well_ is hard.

There! 

I'm sure there might be three or four people that started off like Beethoven and were instant writing prodigies. For the rest of us, we have to learn stuffs... We have to learn how to craft a potluck collection of words and meanings into some sort of logical order that appears to make sense to a reader. Then, we have to throw all that away and rewrite it until it not only makes sense, but actually says what we meant it to say. (That doesn't mean that what we meant to say makes sense, though.  )

Does your writing suck? Well, since you say it does, it probably does. There's no harm in admitting that you can not lift 1400 lbs or swim the English Channel. In fact, trying to do either with some false sense of your own abilities can either get you eaten by a shark or make you several inches shorter than you used to be. So, what do weight-lifters and long-distance swimmers do? They "train." Training is good. Training well increases the chance that one will perform well. When you think about it, that's sort of magical, isn't it?

So, should you just keep writing? Sure. But, don't just decide to write fifty pages of crap today. Instead, try to write _one_ paragraph of the good stuff! Just one. If you have some trouble or come across a problem you can't seem to solve, look for help. Look to other writers, like those here at WF. Look to outside source material, like books on writing or even videos and free courses. Better yet, pick up a good book and see how that author accomplished their work. Dig through your home library (or someone else's  ) and read your favorite books again or find some new ones. Learn from the masters and reach out to others, repeatedly, if necessary, in order to hone your skills at writing well. Then, write two paragraphs or, if you're feeling confident, maybe even three! 

For most writers, it's all about the baby steps. Everyone goes through that fumbling, toddling, phase where no direction seems any better than the other and nothing you do reads as if it's graceful or well done. The trick to getting past that is to learn how to recognize what you do well and finding out how to fix what you do poorly.

Keep writing and keep trying to write well. You _can_ do it. It's not magic, but the process of learning how to improve yourself certainly is!


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## dale (Feb 4, 2015)

you could always spray a fragrant deodorizer of your choice on it.


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## TKent (Feb 4, 2015)

Pencat, both Hugh Howey and Gina Piccalo are full-time writers who have done interviews here. They both say their writing stinks at first. I'd suggest taking some of your stinky writing and workshopping it here, you can maybe find out what is working and what is not working. Also, if you are one to read instruction books, get some books on writing and editing.


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## InstituteMan (Feb 4, 2015)

No one can write worth anything at first. At first can last for years. There's a certain volume of material you have to write before you can expect to be any good at all, so more terrible writing you do over the next year or so the sooner you get to the good writing.


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## popsprocket (Feb 4, 2015)

When your writing sucks (and you are able to recognise it) you've taken an important step toward getting better. Keep writing, push ahead, realise that you've hit your current limit but that next time that ceiling will have raised some just by virtue of having forged onward this time.


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## tabasco5 (Feb 4, 2015)

First drafts usually stink but can be made less stinky with revision.


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## Pidgeon84 (Feb 4, 2015)

Fake it til ya make it. 

In other words don't stop writing. It may stink but that won't last forever. Just keep going.


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## PenCat (Feb 4, 2015)

Thanks folks. ... more writing till the stink's gone it is!


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## Sam (Feb 5, 2015)

PenCat said:


> What's the best thing to do when your writing stinks?



Spray it with air freshener.

ETA: Damn, Dale got there first.


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## Plasticweld (Feb 5, 2015)

When something stinks, it used to smell good.  Work backwards, there is a reason why you thought you had such a good story line and narrative.  You have either added to much information that is not needed or left something out.  Maybe you missed the way you felt, or what the back drop was or some other small detail that brought it to life.  Maybe you took a fine dinner and added to many spices when it was already fine the way it was.  Use the Hemingway approach and only add more info if needed stuff is left out.


Even fine garbage some day, turns into fine fertilizer... let the story sit for awhile and then come back to it


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## PenCat (Feb 5, 2015)

these are all great ideas...

Actually, I've continued to think that my story is a good idea. What's happened lately is more a problem of finding the right words. I'm comfortable sweating out word choices. What I'm noticing or feeling is that what's flowing from the pen lately are all klinkers.

continuing to write, get ideas onto paper, feels like a right thing to do to resolve this..


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## TIG (Feb 5, 2015)

One thing to consider is this: the generally offered advice to keep on writing is good to a point. Theoretically, you could spend from now until the day they put you into a box filling page after page with stink. You could create a stink mountain, and at the end your last page could stink as much as the very first one you stank out.

Every time you start again, make sure you have learned one thing. Even if you can't cure all of the issues with your writing, you shopuld at least cure one problem at each new attempt. It matters not whether you identify what is offensive about your work, or someone else does through workshopping, or you stumble on the source of a problem whilst drinking heavily.

Sometimes finish a piece that stinks, and then use it to beat yourself up until you know why it stinks.

Every step should teach you something, anything!


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## PenCat (Feb 5, 2015)

ha...yeah.. Mt. Stink.

I think it's a matter of getting in the zone..


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## OzzieMandrill (Feb 5, 2015)

There's an old saying between game designers: "Your first ten games will suck - so get them out of your way FAST."

I think the same expression applies to writing, especially to first drafts, so don't be scared and write. Think of your first draft as a prototype. And once you've completed it, if your piece continues to stink, don't be afraid. Just ask yourself: why does it stink? What makes it stink? Should I throw everything away or is there something to save? 

In order to learn from your mistakes you _need_ to make mistakes; and in order to make them, you need to write.


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## Bishop (Feb 5, 2015)

Just keep writing. And then keep writing. And then put that story away when it's done and start another one. Repeat until your work doesn't stink.

FYI, I've never reached that point.


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## PenCat (Feb 5, 2015)

I'm not exactly a new writer.. I have written over the years, but very sporadically..short stories, ad copy, manuals..I've been encouraged over the years to throw myself into writing, but I've had other things to do which I put at higher priority.

I've always respected good writing and feel that it's one of the highest art forms. I nearly quake in awe of some of my favorite authors..tc boyle, neil gaiman, john steinbeck, kurt vonnegut. one kv quote: if you write a sentance and you're unhappy with it, scratch it out!  As though you're exterminating cockroaches, so it felt reading his advice!

I also have read comments by famous writers..one that sticks out in memory was by Stephen King who said he felt that he was a very lazy writer..hard to get going..yet, over the decades, he's been what I would describe as prolific..

Not sure why it's so hard to get the sludge melted into something like oil, but it seems to be..


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## PenCat (Feb 5, 2015)

Can't tell you how helpful these comments are. maybe you've each felt the same as you reached out for advice.

here's another thing...I do not feel like an unworthy writer, and I strongly believe in the stories I want to write.  My feeling is that I hope that I lift these stories up as much as they deserve..to do the best writing that can possibly BE done, so that the most minds will receive them, and get some kind of message from them which is helpful, inspirational, hope-giving..

Certain amount of pressure to really smack it out of the park, out of orbit, out of the solar system, the galaxy, and possibly to puncture the Knowne Universe and into some other kind of time-space-gravity reality.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Feb 5, 2015)

Well, like any skill, practice helps. 

Sometimes the worst thing a writer can do, is set expectations too high for himself. 
Well let me tell you, it's impossible to come right out and write that huge novel that you've always dreamed of. Not gonna happen.
You almost have to build up to it. If you're like me you have hundreds of ideas. Write. ALL OF THEM.

Every single idea you have, every feeling every thought, write it. Blog, keep a diary, write short stories, poetry if that's your thing.
Practice. Then slowly, it will become easier.

The way our brain works is this. The first time we do something, we have to think about it. Then, the more we practice, our brain literally automates the process.
Think about this. When's the last time you thought about breathing? Yeah, no. You don't. Comes without thinking doesn't it?
When you start walking and talking or thinking at the same time, are you thinking about your footsteps? No. 

Write until it becomes easier. If you lack inspiration, then read. I love to read. After I finish a good book, then I'm more compelled to write then ever.
Even if it's not something good, just write until it becomes easier to put your thoughts into words. Your vocabulary will increase, and constantly expressing your thoughts and feelings make it easier to be a descriptive writer. Then, setting scenes, describing emotions and people, telling the reader what happened in a beautiful way, it will all get easier. 

 Then you can worry about the details.
Get that under your belt and then you would be surprised how easy it becomes to improve.


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## tabasco5 (Feb 5, 2015)

Professional writers are former amateurs that didn't give up.


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## J Anfinson (Feb 5, 2015)

My writing always stinks, at least until revision and letting it sit a week or three to look back at it. Once I'm at the point where it's not so fresh in my head it's easier to see what's good and what's obviously not. I think there's something to the idea of getting it down first and letting the first draft mellow in a drawer.


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## Kamek (Feb 5, 2015)

Everything I have right now is poorly written, but I'm working on two rough drafts. One is "write as much crap as possible" and the other is a rough revision. I also don't write things in order. But I would say, you might want to write two rough drafts; the second one being better than the first. Worry about the final draft later, I say.


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## Newman (Feb 7, 2015)

PenCat said:


> I have a story and a scene in my head. .I know how it feels, what it looks like and what my implied narrative is about.
> 
> Everything I put on paper stinks.
> 
> ...



Generally, I think you'd be better getting as much of the story down as you can and then working the stink out during the rewrites.


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## aj47 (Feb 7, 2015)

I know you've read this before; it bears repeating.

If you can discern that you're writing is not up to your standards--you have what it takes.  Because you can recognize the good stuff.  This puts you miles ahead of those folks who feel every word they pen is golden and who take critique as metaphorically killing their firstborn.

Rock on!


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## PenCat (Feb 7, 2015)

heh..yeah, I am hoping  such is the case. I think the prevailing wisdom of "writing until the stink is gone" sounds and feels like the way to go. I have been trying to build more writing time into my day, so I hope that this will happen relatively shortly.

I admit being impatient at times, but I have been an artist for a long time, so I'm accustomed to putting in the time and elbow grease good art requires and deserves.

thank you!


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## voltigeur (Feb 7, 2015)

Two things I try to keep in mind. 

1) You have permission to write the worst crap ever! (i.e. get the story on paper or on your hard drive.) 

2) You will never be able to edit or revise a blank page. (i.e see point#1)

I'm a plotter (and proud of it lol). I do research, I do outline my scenes, I do have an idea of how the scene will end. But there comes a point I have to just sit and type it out. 
Even when it is crap I still have the foundation to build the scene up the way I want it. 

Put it down for 2 days then go back and re-read it. That will fix most stuff.


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## PenCat (Feb 8, 2015)

has anyone here successfully used any kind of diagram to "sketch" out the parts of their story?  I don't mean so much like a story board, tho that could help, too.

I mean more like:  This rectangle is Part A and it leads to Part B in this other rectangle. 

Each rectangle could have a little summary of that part/chapter's activity.  I don't know whether that is useful in the writing discipline; I am primarily a visual artist, and I think in visual terms.

thank you for any thoughts on this.


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## voltigeur (Feb 8, 2015)

I tried one idea that came out of a discussion from this forum. Someone said it sounded like I needed to tighten the story concept up. After thinking about it I used the following to hone and focus. This also makes me evaluate what I can cut if this ends up being too much of a monster. 

I’m writing historical fiction covering the Cold War. I got 2 sheets of Poster Board and drew a double line down the middle that represented the main story line. (Reagan and Andropov.) This also list all significant events during the time period of the first book. 

Next I wrote up scenes that my fictional characters would be involved in on either side of that main line. They are color coded so I know which story arch I am working with. A line from each scene block was then drawn to the Center story line. 

This way I have a visual of each story arch, when I leave one when I pick it up again. I’m using an episodic technique so this insures that I know why each scene is in the story and how it moves the story forward. 

The closer the scene is to the centerline the more important it is. Further away the more I can cut it.  This will come into play if I run wildly over the word count.


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## PenCat (Feb 8, 2015)

that sounds pretty good of a technique. So you just "know" that your double line is the main story that you carry in your head, or are there little blurbs along the double centerline that have main-story points or milestones?

edit..NM..re-read your post..my bad!


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## voltigeur (Feb 8, 2015)

I do historical fiction so the story is based on a historical time line. The characters and low level plots are made up, but the history behind them is very real. All of the sub plots and story lines tie to things that happen on the "strategic" story line. 

My technique is unique to doing Historical fiction, but should work for any story line. The center line is restricted to only core story elements.


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## DB17 (Feb 8, 2015)

All of us had to learn to write. I don't care how much natural talent you have or not. It is hard work, and it takes practice. Almost all of us look back on our early work with some disdain. That may be where you are right now. Just keep working on it. Maybe try a different type of writing than what you've been doing.


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## A_Jones (Feb 8, 2015)

I always find that when my writing stinks something is wrong.  Somewhere something doesnt add up and I havent realized it yet.   So I take a break or go to another project.  Eventually the stink goes away when you discover that hidden something and fix it.  

Thats just me though, and I cant say I have been very on top of writing lately so I am not sure how great my advice is.


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 9, 2015)

@PenCat,

Why do you say it stinks? IOW, _what_ stinks? 
-Are you not convincing yourself that disbelief can be suspended? 
-Are your characters fighting you, telling you they don't like what you are making them do? 
-Is there a connection to the next scene that can't be made logically based on what you started them out with?
-Are you unhappy with the words you have to work with in your vocabulary?
-Is the premise, plot, or character arc so crazy that _you_ don't believe it?
-Are your characters reacting to your scene/settings the way a normal person (like them) would?

A few things I keep handy at all times:

What has to happen in this scene in the way of:
1. Dialog:
2. Narrative:
3. Action:

...in order to:
1. Reveal something(s) about the character(s)?
2. Move the story along?
3. Reveal information to the reader not known before?

-Does your scene/act lack _conflict_?
-Have you somehow confused _Situation_ with _Complication_?
-Finally, I have a diary for each character in each scene, looks like this:

CHARACTER DIARY

Character Name: 
Act/Scene Diary: 
--------------------------------------------
Character Name: 
Act/Scene Diary: 
--------------------------------------------
[...]

Here they each tell me about the experience of the scene from their point of view-their version.

-Speaking of which, you might want to render the same exact scene from a different perspective, which will give you another perspective as well!  

Since I am new, and have no idea what you are writing, or why you think it stinks, I'm just throwing broad stuff at you-most or all of which probably has no relevance. Apologies if this is all stuff you've tried... Is any of that helpful, or too generic for your situation?


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 9, 2015)

@PenCat,

An update to my post (which as of right now is awaiting moderation):


*PLOT NOTES
*
Pre-requisites: (if any)

Describe what needs to happen in this scene/chapter:

1. Dialog:
2. Narrative/Description: :
3. Action:
4. Thought (She wondered for a moment...): 
5. Exposition (She’d been in Key Largo a year now, looking for ...): 

How does this scene/chapter:
1. Reveal something(s) about the character(s)?
2. Move the story along?
3. Give the reader some necessary information?


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## PenCat (Feb 10, 2015)

Yumi;  thank you, this is a _*wealth*_ of great ideas.

when I think about _what_ stinks, it's as I'm writing, and reading it in my head (that sort of inner voice/narrator we all have) the prose just sounds, "meh." 

It's like the difference between making music, or merely pressing all the right keys on the piano in the right order.

I know that I can write with the feel I am after; just lately, it isn't happening. I've been under a lot of stress lately; perhaps that's a factor.

The rest of what you suggest will be *very* helpful as I move forward in my writing..

thank you!


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## PenCat (Feb 10, 2015)

Maybe I could and should use that stress...the way actors use their own personal emotions to help their characters have more depth?

I'm at the punch-in-the-gut stage with my stress, so maybe easier said than done, but I can push forward anyway...


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 10, 2015)

@PenCat,

Thanks for your nice note!  I am using WriteWay right now, and there is the concept of 'templates' for each Act, Chapter, Scene, Character, you name it. I took the generic ones that it comes with and blew them out (like I posted above, for example), and then when I start a new portion of the book, that new 'template' pops up for me to fill in.

In the same way that folks say "To understand something, teach it", I force myself & characters (via their diaries) to fill in those templates with all kinds of things the scene, chapter, act, entire book, character, needs or will accomplish. With WriteWay I'm trying to fil lall of this in before filling in the 'skeleton', which will hopefully identify and flaws in the plot/sub-plot before I spend time writing it blindly and finding out later. In my case I _know_ I spend far too much time on a piece if I just start writing, so I'm hoping this method makes things tighter and take less time! I say all this because I can easily copy/paste my templates and send them to you. The one above was for just one aspect of a scene/act/chapter, but since you thought it resonated with your inner writer, I'm happy to share all I have. I'm only too happy to help.



PenCat said:


> Maybe I could and should use that stress...the way  actors use their own personal emotions to help their characters have  more depth?



re: Using stress... What a *great thought*. They say readers can _tell_ when you are faking it, or describing something you've never actually experienced. Are you able to remember, or if not write down, the actual physical feelings of it? I'm assuming _bad stress_ here, so if I'm wrong, let me know. Good stress never usually feels like the gut punch...  How much of where your mind focuses/ignores can you write down? Is there a tinge of self-pity, or pure white-hot loathing? Jealousy of those who do fine, or are you strutting around in your pain, seeing who notices? (I know that sounds weird, thinking more of your character/plot there)

If you _need_ this kind of strong emotion to make the _next_ thing justified as a rational action/reaction, then it is needed, useful, and essential. What I mean is, if the next scene needs your character to act brashly, or do something insanely out of the ordinary, then the reader should follow your character's action(s) as a logical eventuality-provided you have given them reason just prior. 

A character wouldn't lash out at a waiter over nothing after a peaceful conversation; something had to have made that fuse really short. But as we know, these extreme emotions are short-lived, so they can't happen the previous day if meant to justify an extreme action right _now_! 

So this current RW (Real World) stress you are having can give you all the real, believable, and _true_ observations that your readers will _completely_ go along with. Because they've all been that mad themselves, you couldn't "sell it" any other way than with genuine observation now, while it's "handy".

And finally, thinking as a healer, the act of you separating yourself from your stress, and the thing causing it (fight or flight, etc.), and actually _objectifying_ it is healthy. In psychology they call this IFT/IFS, whereby you take an extreme emotion and observe it in context, but objectively. When did this member start? What does it seek? You actually "ask" that part of yourself (as part of IFT) questions, and it answers. Doing so can not only make you feel better, but also help your story telling by showing you that we don't just _react_ to stimuli/triggers... 

There is a part of us (some call it the 'wounded child') where that reaction came from-a time when it was actually needed & necessary. The problems start when that reaction is used long after it has become useless. Think habits you have today still, that you don't like in yourself, but picked up as a little child, and you're close.

Geez, I really went on, eh? Here is some objective info on IFT/IFS. 

Let me know, and I hope you feel better, or at least turn that nasty stress into something constructive! 



P.S. Most stress comes from self-doubt, FWIW...


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 10, 2015)

PenCat said:


> Yumi;  thank you, this is a _*wealth*_ of great ideas.
> 
> when I think about _what_ stinks, it's as I'm writing, and reading it in my head (that sort of inner voice/narrator we all have) the prose just sounds, "meh."



@PenCat,

Just a wild thought. Instead of _reading along_ as you _write_, and judging before you finish a sentence, why not try this for your scene:

- Don't change anything that should happen.
- Except use _no_ dialogue. None.
- Make the scene work as if you are focusing on the characters (actions, timing, facial/body, etc.), and not what they might say.
- Think of your scene as being on TV, but you have the volume all the way down. What can you see in the background? What details about the characters are evident in your mind now that distracting words are removed?
- Is there body English that betrays what they are 'saying' to the other character(s)? Is someone lying? You can't tell any of this really useful information without _looking_. We use visual more than verbal communications, as humans.

Try to describe the characters' actions in a way that they still communicate the necessary information, but with more attention to their posture, movements, and what some call 'deep focus'. By taking the difficult task of making their dialogue match their actions, you might find that your scene needs little or no dialogue at all, and it was only added to give 2-dimensional characters a way to exchange information. 

Have you ever turned the volume down on a soap opera and tried to figure out what is going on? You can do it without even listening to the words! Does a character fidget with a button while pausing to answer? How do you describe "sneaky", "lecherous", or "innocent"? It isn't by their words, I'll bet. 

If you are happy with the way your characters move _through_ your situations & complications in the given setting, then you can ask yourself, "What verbal dialogue is _absolutely necessary_ to this scene now that their bodies have said so much?"

I'm thinking here that you might find it a refreshing spin on your scene to not focus [critically] on words & movement at the same time, but rather do one, then the other, and not fuss over the wording of either very much if it slows your tempo down in early drafts.

I hope this kind of distraction helps... Best of luck with the personal issues...


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## PenCat (Feb 16, 2015)

Yumi wrote:  "P.S. Most stress comes from self-doubt, FWIW..."

Can you elaborate, pls?   You mean writing stress, our all stress in general ?

Thank you!


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## MamaStrong (Feb 16, 2015)

I just posted something on here recently that I think really stinks. The idea was good, but it's posted. I agree with keep writing until the stink is gone.


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 16, 2015)

Silly cell..  wrong thread. Can't delete comment now, need to wait till on desktop. ..


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## PenCat (Feb 16, 2015)

Yumi Koizumi said:


> Silly cell..  wrong thread. Can't delete comment now, need to wait till on desktop. ..



I might have seen your comment in the notice email; here it's different, so maybe things worked better than you think?


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 16, 2015)

Silly phone. I replied to a thread where someone wanted something chasmatic... ?  sorry to button in!

- - - Updated - - -

Dam you autocorrect!


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## PenCat (Feb 16, 2015)

yeah..smart phones might need a little extra tutoring or maybe summer school.

;-)


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 16, 2015)

@PenCat,

I'm not a licensed Psychotherapist, but I work with one currently. Stress is good or bad, and from bad there is fight, flight, or freeze. 

In the case of bad stress, self-doubt and the associated anxiety make you feel inadequate to make even the F, F, or F decision properly. Self-doubt can also mean '_second doubts_', or the irresistible feeling that your first decision was actually wrong (when statistically your first is usually correct).

Confidence and self-esteem are easy to _tell_ someone to have...


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## Folcro (Feb 16, 2015)

Who cares if your writing stinks?


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## TJ1985 (Feb 17, 2015)

Folcro said:


> Who cares if your writing stinks?



Agents and publishers spring to mind...


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## PenCat (Feb 17, 2015)

Plus if a writer doesn't enjoy or believe in what s/he is writing, how good will it be for the reader?


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 17, 2015)

Plasticweld said:


> When something stinks, it used to smell good.



Profound!


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## Tettsuo (Feb 17, 2015)

The only way to improve your writing is to write.  Same as doing anything else in life.


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## tabasco5 (Feb 18, 2015)

I was just listening to a lecture given by Anne Lamont the other day and she gave some advice that has been reverberating in my head ever since.  Allow yourself to write crappy first drafts.  We each hold ourselves to a high standard and want to deliver the type of high quality work that we know can.  Therefore, when crappy first drafts pop up we have all types of negative things we feel or say to ourselves.  Just the concept to allow yourself to write crappy first drafts I think is profound.  In other words, give yourself permission.  Just don't give yourself permission to write crappy final drafts and you are okay.


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## Folcro (Feb 18, 2015)

TJ1985 said:


> Agents and publishers spring to mind...



...I'm pretty sure James Patterson and Stephanie Meyer have agents and publishers  

It's all about your intent. The joy of writing for yourself is no less relevant than that of writing for others.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Feb 18, 2015)

Depends on how much you love what you're writing. 

If you're passionate about an idea or a character, then, as already suggested, first allow yourself to write it. Sure it might stink at first, but if you're writing about something you love, nothing will stop you from completing the refining process.

In short, if you find your determination lacking to see it through, then you need to examine if you really like what you're working on.

My characters and ideas are all real worlds and people to me. Not a thousand people telling me otherwise would stop me from trying.
Even if just one other person likes it, then I'm happy. 

And as it's already been brought out, plenty of famous works were written by people with little training or education. But they had the intent.


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## Yumi Koizumi (Feb 18, 2015)

I come from technical/sales/presentation, and proposal writing. And it can stink,  too. But that writing is nothing like a story. 
So since we do what we know,  I start or with high level framework, bullets, big things (think indented notes, ...) I get those in the right order I want them presented,  based on the audience,  and time/size/media restrictions. That all tales about 5-15 minutes.

From there,  I just fill things in en masse, knowing it is easier to take out than fill in. Also,  if I can find a lot about one section, if it is all relevant, or may be worth dividing it up. 

It can stink,  but not like you guys are talking. It sinks by looking incomplete, grammar/spelling errors, or incorrect data. Even poorly presented,  the facts come across.

In creative whoring,  I'm trying to do the same thing; basically getting the whole thing worked out in my head & outline, them filling it in. Some everyone woes differently,  only time will tell whether this way will work for me. 

I've been thinking about the details of this book well over a year,  and researching the plot for a few months. I haven't written a single word yet! 

I'm probably avoiding writing,  hiding behind the preliminary research. ...


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