# Which of these names appeal to you?



## philistine (Aug 4, 2013)

In short, I'm looking for a name for a character in a side project of mine. The chap is chiefly English with some French ancestry, and is quite well-to-do. I know which ones I like already, though I've found it can sometimes prove helpful to see if my favourites coincide with those of others. 

The names:

Frederick Charron
Alexander Cloutier
Timothy de la Faure
Matthew Forestier
Edward Germain-Herriot
Nicholas Lefèvre
Walter Corbeau
Alistair Michaud
Francis de Palomer
Montgomery Séverin
Benjamin Tavernier
Arthur James Thibault
Richard de la Voclain
Paul D'aramitz

Thanks.


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## Lewdog (Aug 4, 2013)

Alexander Cloutier, Nicholas Lefevre (I think it is supposed to be Lefevbre), Montgomery Severin, and Arthur James Thibault.  Yep it sounds like they could go fox hunting together and afterwards sit down for some wine and cheese.


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## philistine (Aug 4, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> Alexander Cloutier, Nicholas Lefevre *(I think it is supposed to be Lefevbre)*, Montgomery Severin, and Arthur James Thibault.  Yep it sounds like they could go fox hunting together and afterwards sit down for some wine and cheese.



I think Lefèvre is just one of the more uncommon alternate spellings. I didn't like the sound of the name with the 'b' in there, so removed it. Thanks for the thoughts! :satellite:


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## Skodt (Aug 4, 2013)

I like the name Alistair. The name was used for a character in Dragon Age: Origins, a video game, I have loved it ever since. I have wanted to use it in my own work, but it has never fit with a character.


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## philistine (Aug 4, 2013)

Skodt said:


> I like the name Alistair. The name was used for a character in Dragon Age: Origins, a video game, I have loved it ever since. I have wanted to use it in my own work, but it has never fit with a character.



I like it too. I can't, however, shake its association with this interesting chap:







That may or may not be a good thing.


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## Pishwi (Aug 4, 2013)

I love that game!


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## Lewdog (Aug 4, 2013)

What's wrong with a little Satanic worship every now and then?  :hell_pawn:

Kidding of course...well unless someone is offended, then it's the greatest thing since sliced bread!  (Please don't hex me.)


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## Dictarium (Aug 4, 2013)

Freddy, Alex, Matt, and Nick stand out to me just because the others sound like they would be tiring to read all the time.


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## OurJud (Aug 4, 2013)

Benjamin Tavernier.


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## Jeko (Aug 4, 2013)

I can't pick any of the names, since I never pick names based on how they sound. They're all plausible for what you're after, but how you construct the character should inform you best on what name to go for.


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## Gargh (Aug 4, 2013)

_I _like...

Alexander de Cloutier_ (I just like the extra syllable... don't know French)_
Nicholas Lefèvre
Walter Corbeau _(He sounds like contemptible, understated old money)_
Arthur James Thibault _(There's a forced arrogance to the way it is pronounced)_


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## philistine (Aug 4, 2013)

Cadence said:


> I can't pick any of the names, since I never pick names based on how they sound. They're all plausible for what you're after, but how you construct the character should inform you best on what name to go for.



Although some of the names were constructed with their literal meaning in mind (albeit very, very loosely), I cant help but disagree with your final sentence. At least, that's not my method of operating. Corbeau, for example, is the French for 'raven', which I suppose is somehow linked in with the image of rich old men doing underhand deeds to increase their worth. Irrespective of that, I've always found choosing a character's name based on what he does to be slightly old hand, and at the very worst- awfully cliched. I think this is only mitigated if the way it is brought across makes it almost indecipherable. 

I recall Crowley once saying that the best name to procure fame is one that starts with a dactyl and ends with a spondee. That's tried and tested, though I think you can be a little more lax with those rules, and still come up with something that- all further meaning aside- sounds very 'good'; catchy, and fun to say. That's the essence of what I was trying to capture. I have a book on my shelf by a certain _Bertrand Poirot-Delpech_; isn't that just a blast to say?

Thanks for the response. :-D



Gargh said:


> _I _like...
> 
> Alexander de Cloutier_ (I just like the extra syllable... don't know French)_
> Nicholas Lefèvre
> ...



Thanks for the suggestions. I neglected to put into the original post that people may add honorifics, initials and the like wherever they felt it might benefit the examples given. I think _Alexander de Cloutier _works quite well.

Thanks!


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## Lewdog (Aug 4, 2013)

Keyser Soze!


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## bookmasta (Aug 4, 2013)

Richard de la Voclain
 Paul D'aramitz
Alistair Michaud


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## Deleted member 49710 (Aug 4, 2013)

Part of this choice should really be determined by what you're trying to convey about the character. A last name beginning with "de" generally implies some aristocratic heritage when the word coming after it refers to a specific place, so if you go with one of these you might look at different areas of France and typical regional spellings and names. _De la Faure_ works okay, I guess, but _Voclain_ looks more like a masculine word (it would be _du Voclain_) and it wouldn't be _D'aramitz_ but _d'Aramitz_. On the other hand, the names _Charron, Cloutier, Forestier_, and _Tavernier_ all refer to fairly humble occupations and would imply a lower class origin.

As far as appeal, I guess Matthew Forestier sounds like an okay guy, but I'd need to know more about the character to know what's appropriate.


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## Jeko (Aug 4, 2013)

> I've always found choosing a character's name based on what he does to be slightly old hand, and at the very worst- awfully cliched.



I've always found every character's name to be somewhat linked to what he does - In fact, I have never come across a character in any form of published fiction whose name cannot be linked to their personality or actions. 

If I'm ever unsure of what to call a character, I give him/her a placeholder name and keep writing the story with him/her and playing around with him/her until I find a name that makes me go 'Yes. _That_.' If I'm certain of what to call a character, who they are ends up, to any extent, being linked to their name. Either way, the character and their name have some kind of link.

I like things that are 'old hand' - they tend to be the best things to do, as time has proven their worth. And by googling 'old hand' I find that its synonymous with a veteran status. So I'm wondering if you meant 'old hat'.

And 'de' means 'of' in French, so adding it to any name to make it sound phonetically better can make the name make less sense, especially to anyone who knows French.


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## philistine (Aug 4, 2013)

Cadence said:


> I've always found every character's name to be somewhat linked to what he does - In fact, I have never come across a character in any form of published fiction whose name cannot be linked to their personality or actions.



You must be awfully limited in what you read, then. I'm not discounting that it's a perfectly viable approach to choosing names, though it's nothing close to being dictated by practical necessity. 

If I'm ever unsure of what to call a character, I give him/her a placeholder name and keep writing the story with him/her and playing around with him/her until I find a name that makes me go 'Yes. _That_.' If I'm certain of what to call a character, who they are ends up, to any extent, being linked to their name. Either way, the character and their name have some kind of link.



Cadence said:


> I like things that are 'old hand' - they tend to be the best things to do, as time has proven their worth. And by googling 'old hand' I find that its synonymous with a veteran status. So I'm wondering if you meant 'old hat'.
> 
> And 'de' means 'of' in French, so adding it to any name to make it sound phonetically better can make the name make less sense, especially to anyone who knows French.



I did, my mistake. I disagree with your latter sentence. It's simply a name. Anyone who was quite familiar the language would instantly recognise that to be the case. In fact, there are many Frenchmen whose surnames are place names, even countries, who have long since dropped the 'of', or have never used it at all. Anatole France being a famous example.

Again, I'm not bashing the technique of embellishing the character with qualities relating to his or her name- I've utilised the technique many times in previous works of mine. It's simply one way doing things amongst many.



lasm said:


> Part of this choice should really be determined by what you're trying to convey about the character. A last name beginning with "de" *generally* implies some aristocratic heritage when the word coming after it refers to a specific place, so if you go with one of these you might look at different areas of France and typical regional spellings and names.



Generally, but not always. Carrying such an assertion with a general sense of certainty is quite as absurd as assuming that all persons with the surname 'baker', or whatever else, are all actively engaged in the bread business. You could easily say, 'well, why use it then, if it doesn't fit?' It sounds good, and that's all there is to it.




lasm said:


> _
> De la Faure_ works okay, I guess, *but Voclain looks more like a masculine word (it would be du Voclain)* and it wouldn't be _D'aramitz_ but _d'Aramitz_. On the other hand, the names _Charron, Cloutier, Forestier_, and _Tavernier_ all refer to fairly humble occupations and would imply a lower class origin.



Concerning d'Aramitz, that is how I meant to put it. My bad. Though after some brief research, it appears both are equally as valid, the traditional rendering being just that. 

Indicative of humble occupation or not, I think it's irrelevant. There are just as many old money families with more aristocratic names as there are _nouveau riche_ with simpler, contrary surnames. 

Voclain is a fairly common surname on its own. I haven't checked whether du Voclain is, though it doesn't really matter.



lasm said:


> As far as appeal, I guess Matthew Forestier sounds like an okay guy, but I'd need to know more about the character to know what's appropriate.



Thanks for the responses!


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## Deleted member 49710 (Aug 4, 2013)

Ah. Well in that case, I suggest you name your character Robert du Connard-Fairechier. Sounds faboo.


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## philistine (Aug 4, 2013)

lasm said:


> Ah. Well in that case, I suggest you name your character Robert du Connard-Fairechier. Sounds faboo.



Great job, though I make it a point not to name my characters after users on this forum.


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## Rosette (Aug 5, 2013)

Timothy de la Faure
Walter Corbeau
Alistair Michaud
Richard de la Voclain


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## Blade (Aug 5, 2013)

Matthew Forestier - sounds more well to do English to me. It is always optional until you are finished anyway.


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## Jeko (Aug 5, 2013)

> You must be awfully limited in what you read, then.



Not at all. What makes you say that?

I'm not saying you have to try hard to make your character linked to their personality or actions. Just keep it in mind. 



> I disagree with your latter sentence. It's simply a name. nyone who was quite familiar the language would instantly recognise that to be the case.



I am rather familiar with the language, and the example you gave would immediately strike me as dodgy unless it links with the character. The use of a particle (de) denotes nobility and the connection to an estate. The second name is not a surname but a place or other word, which makes sense with 'de' meaning 'of' or 'Du' meaning 'of the (de le)'. So Cloutier would have to be a place, as it means 'nailer' in French (Alexander of Nailer - doesn't make sense). Since Cloutier is not a real place, Cloutier would have to be a fictional place in your story. This would be fine.

My main issue with names that aren't made to have any meaning, despite alluding to having a meaning by the way they are put together, is that - particularly when they are foreign and use the language - anyone who tries to attribute an implied meaning to the name (such as that which comes with the use of particle) will find no way of doing so. It's the kind of thing that makes me go 'oh' and continue less enthusiastically than before.


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## Lewdog (Aug 5, 2013)

Hmm I did a search on Wikipedia for Cloutier and out of all the people it brought up, not one was a nail maker.  Odd huh?  

Cloutier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He could name him Tuffy comme des Cloutier.


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## Jeko (Aug 5, 2013)

Seems Alexander Cloutier would be Canadian, then...


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## philistine (Aug 5, 2013)

Cadence said:


> Not at all. What makes you say that?
> 
> I'm not saying you have to try hard to make your character linked to their personality or actions. Just keep it in mind.



If you've never come across a character whose name wasn't directly related to his profession, background, occupation or whatever- then you're evidently quite limited in what you read. I've come across thousands. Regardless, it doesn't matter, as I expect you were simply trying to buttress the point you were making.



Cadence said:


> I am rather familiar with the language, and the example you gave would immediately strike me as dodgy unless it links with the character. The use of a particle (de) denotes nobility and the connection to an estate. The second name is not a surname but a place or other word, which makes sense with 'de' meaning 'of' or 'Du' meaning 'of the (de le)'. So Cloutier would have to be a place, as it means 'nailer' in French (Alexander of Nailer - doesn't make sense). Since Cloutier is not a real place, Cloutier would have to be a fictional place in your story. This would be fine.



I'm also familiar with the language, though suffer from none of the pedantry you seem to. 



Cadence said:


> My main issue with names that aren't made to have any meaning, despite alluding to having a meaning by the way they are put together, is that - particularly when they are foreign and use the language - anyone who tries to attribute an implied meaning to the name (such as that which comes with the use of particle) will find no way of doing so. It's the kind of thing that makes me go 'oh' and continue less enthusiastically than before.



To each their own. Personally, I think that's absurd, and is, again, just your pedantry coming through. I suggest you never pick up a volume of Lear poetry, or you might keel over from shock.


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## Jeko (Aug 5, 2013)

> If you've never come across a character whose name wasn't directly related to his profession, background, occupation or whatever- then you're evidently quite limited in what you read.



I don't appreciate that judgement. All I'm saying is that I'm able to make that link myself. Sometimes it's incredibly small and subtle, but it's always there. Maybe I'm the only one making that specific link, but it's something I always enjoy when reading. 

The fact you gave the character's background in the OP made me infer that you wanted the name to have some relevance to the character. Personally, I think choosing a name based purely on how it sounds is a wonderfully shallow way of appearing deep, and it scars possible dimensions of the character.

And I don't suffer from pedantry. All I initially suggested is that you give the names a test-run if you find it hard to pick one, and then I echoed lasm's comments on the specifics of French names.

I assumed that if you thought names were so simple you would have just picked one. But if my analysis of your options is 'pedantry', then I don't think you need my advice.


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## philistine (Aug 5, 2013)

Cadence said:


> I don't appreciate that judgement. All I'm saying is that I'm able to make that link myself. Sometimes it's incredibly small and subtle, but it's always there. Maybe I'm the only one making that specific link, but it's something I always enjoy when reading.
> 
> The fact you gave the character's background in the OP made me infer that you wanted the name to have some relevance to the character. Personally, I think choosing a name based purely on how it sounds is a wonderfully shallow way of appearing deep, and it scars possible dimensions of the character.
> 
> ...



My pedantry comment was in regards to your enjoyment of a novel being dulled based on such an insignificant detail. Say it to yourself: 'I dropped/disliked that book because I didn't like the guy's name'. See how ridiculous that sounds?

In any case, your input is appreciated.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Aug 5, 2013)

The thing is, it might seem pedantic and like a small detail to you, but to me it would serve as an indicator of overall quality and attention to detail. If I pick up a book, read the back cover to see what it's about and see a name like "Alistair de la Boulanger," I think, _This writer either doesn't know or doesn't care what this name means_. That translates to: _This writer doesn't know what he's doing. _And I put down the book.

There's a hair salon in my city named "Beaux La Tresse." Probably sounded good to whoever named it, but anyone who actually knows a little French can see it's wrong. So instead of looking classy and elegant (I assume this was the goal, though I find the idea that French=classy and elegant to be silly anyway), it looks asinine.


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## Jeko (Aug 5, 2013)

> Say it to yourself: 'I dropped/disliked that book because I didn't like the guy's name'. See how ridiculous that sounds?



No, but I never said I would stop reading. It affects my mood while reading:



			
				Cadence said:
			
		

> _It's the kind of thing that makes me go 'oh' and continue less enthusiastically than before._



I have a natural enthusiasm to explore the little nooks and crannies of a story, and if the writer has purposefully made their names have no meaning where they ought to have meaning, my mood is dampened because I wanted there to be meaning there. It's like there's an empty space where the meaning should be. Hence why a name like Alexander de Cloutier is a bad idea unless you make Cloutier a place. Else it means Alexander of Nailer, and anyone who understands French will laugh. And names in foreign languages that don't make sense in the foreign language make me laugh.

If you were to name a child Richard, and he asked why he was called Richard, would you say 'sorry, son - I just picked your name because it sounded nice'? Wouldn't that dampen _his _spirits?

Anyway, novels are the sum of thousands of small details, and while some are more important than others, none are insignificant.


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## philistine (Aug 5, 2013)

lasm said:


> The thing is, it might seem pedantic and like a small detail to you, but to me it would serve as an indicator of overall quality and attention to detail. If I pick up a book, read the back cover to see what it's about and see a name like "Alistair de la Boulanger," I think, _This writer either doesn't know or doesn't care what this name means_. That translates to: _This writer doesn't know what he's doing. _And I put down the book.
> 
> There's a hair salon in my city named "Beaux La Tresse." Probably sounded good to whoever named it, but anyone who actually knows a little French can see it's wrong. So instead of looking classy and elegant (I assume this was the goal, though I find the idea that French=classy and elegant to be silly anyway), it looks asinine.



You'd be right... if every other aspect of my work were terrible, which is it not. If I come across a small irregularity in a work which is of otherwise great quality, I'm inclined to write it off as being intentional on the part of the author, and not accidental. I'd imagine many people would do precisely the same thing.

This reminds me of when Daniel Foe changed his name to Daniel Defoe. Notice how that rendering ignores every rule, of which you've so far not failed in pointing out. I suppose Defoe was some sort of two-bit hack writer, right?



Cadence said:


> No, but I never said I would stop reading. It affects my mood while reading:
> 
> I have a natural enthusiasm to explore the little nooks and crannies of a story, and if the writer has purposefully made their names have no meaning where they ought to have meaning, my mood is dampened because I wanted there to be meaning there. It's like there's an empty space where the meaning should be. Hence why a name like Alexander de Cloutier is a bad idea unless you make Cloutier a place. Else it means Alexander of Nailer, and anyone who understands French will laugh. And names in foreign languages that don't make sense in the foreign language make me laugh.



Are you French? I could be wrong, though I don't think so. That being the case, leave the speculation to the speculators. I'd like to give a person fluent in the tongue enough credit and say that he or she would undoubtedly recognise what went on immediately.

There doesn't have to be meaning in everything. A name can simple be a name, as is the case for many characters in many novels, in many languages, in many styles. 




Cadence said:


> If you were to name a child Richard, and he asked why he was called Richard, would you say 'sorry, son - I just picked your name because it sounded nice'? Wouldn't that dampen _his _spirits?



That wouldn't be my approach to naming my blood, though I think you'll find the majority of people do just that. 



Cadence said:


> Anyway, novels are the sum of thousands of small details, and while some are more important than others, none are insignificant.



Agreed, though this is not exactly coherent with your earlier thoughts on the matter. You made it sound as though the success of a work was entirely dependent on one of the finer details. One loose rivet doesn't necessarily mean a shipwreck.


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## Jeko (Aug 5, 2013)

> This reminds me of when Daniel Foe changed his name to Daniel Defoe. Notice how that rendering ignores every rule, of which you've so far not failed in pointing out. I suppose Defoe was some sort of two-bit hack writer, right?



Defoe is a medial capital spelling, I believe, and they are never used in France. So it makes sense for him, since he's not French.


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## philistine (Aug 5, 2013)

Cadence said:


> Defoe is a medial capital spelling, I believe, and they are never used in France. So it makes sense for him, since he's not French.





> Defoe later added the aristocratic-sounding "De" to his name and on occasion claimed descent from the family of De Beau Faux.



His name change was in line with his supposed aristocratic French ancestry.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Aug 5, 2013)

Defoe was, of course, English. In any case, he added the "de" to his name in order to give the impression that he had an aristocratic origin, not because it sounded nice. Similarly, it's true that many French people have either adopted names that include the particle "de" or dropped the particle "de" from their names, but this is precisely because that "de" has a well-known class connotation which the person wishes either to exploit or reject. That connotation is not meaningless or optional. 

It's quite easy to pick a name that doesn't make you look totally ignorant. So why wouldn't you?


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## philistine (Aug 5, 2013)

lasm said:


> Defoe was, of course, English. In any case, he added the "de" to his name in order to give the impression that he had an aristocratic origin, not because it sounded nice. Similarly, it's true that many French people have either adopted names that include the particle "de" or dropped the particle "de" from their names, but this is precisely because that "de" has a well-known class connotation which the person wishes either to exploit or reject. That connotation is not meaningless or optional.



One could just as easily say he added it to sound more important, too. Names were also spoken, and not just written. It would be equally plausible to say that he made the alteration to his name not simply because it connoted aristocratic heritage, but because it sounded good. 



> Defoe later added the aristocratic-sounding "De" to his name and on occasion claimed descent from the family of De Beau Faux.





lasm said:


> The thing is, it's quite easy to pick a name that doesn't make you look totally ignorant. So why wouldn't you?



The majority of the names I came up with suffer from none of the issues so hotly contested in this thread, though I see what you're saying. I particularly fancied Arthur James Thibault, myself, and probably will end up going with it, making all this talk pointless. 

I still, however, disagree with you.


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## Blade (Aug 5, 2013)

Cadence said:


> Seems Alexander Cloutier would be Canadian, then...



8) Actually if you went back to the 19th century, Confederation, era that would fit right in. It would come across as very unusual in the modern era though.



philistine said:


> This reminds me of when Daniel Foe changed his name to Daniel Defoe. Notice how that rendering ignores every rule, of which you've so far not failed in pointing out. I suppose Defoe was some sort of two-bit hack writer, right?



I do not think "Foe" would be a good choice of an author's name both for its meaning and the fact it is rather short. "Defoe" may make no sense but it would not be associated with "enemy".

If the name, once established, is rarely used it is not of much consequence really, more of an impression than an active element in the story.

I read a novel once where a major character was named "F.", an oddity that was repeated over and over in the text though it seemed to indicate nothing in particular.:icon_shaking2:


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## TheYellowMustang (Aug 5, 2013)

Timothy de la Faure + Paul D'aramitz - de la Faure = Timothy D'aramitz. That's the one I liked the most.


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## JEvershen (Aug 6, 2013)

Obviously a character's name is, in my opinion, a highly personal thing and off course you should go with your gut instinct. However, I can't resist from adding my tuppence!
I like Matthew Foretier but have some problems with it in that it sounds overly English. I hope people understand this is not a criticism to English names but to me this doesn't hint enough at French Heritage. Although off course we are unaware of the roots of this heritage, it could be on his mother's side meaning that the surname would be lost in very English Surnames.
My favourite of the suggested names is easily Arthur James Thibault. It has a certain commanding tone about it expected of the higher classes. My very own personal opinion here is that I do not like the James. I think it needs a middle name or second first name for certain but I personally don't like the combination of Arthur and James together. Like I said that is merely my own prefernce and you must go with your overall gut instinct. (The only part of the combination I enjoy is the fact that it could be shortened to AJ, as an affectionate name, although I may have chosen a name such as Jonathon rather than James. I also like the idea of Arthur Frederick Thibault and Arthur Emmett Thibault.)
And I name almost all of my characters before developing their character fully on the basis that you would not know the character of a child that you had but you name them at birth.


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