# A writer's ability to "spin."



## The Tourist (Jan 28, 2014)

As writers, we can use the language to sway opinion.  For example, my own father told me that when I was a boy he had to listen to me carefully to know if I was lying to him.  The first time it happened, I was three.

So tonight something transpired to show me once again writers can use our abilities in fiction and fantasy to sway the innocent.  I will include an actual post I made tonight in another forum.

I am a member of the ESEE/Randall knife discussion forum.  Great guys.  Good, hard working American Joes.  Hunters, cowboys, world travelers, bikers, soldiers and wilderness campers.  If they have faults it's their stark honesty and their love for good steel.  And they hate our nanny state.  So tonight they all weighed in as The State of the Union speech was presented.

I thought BHO's offering was just a hokey spiel, but I decided to use humor to blunt it.  However, several guys read my post--and thought it was serious.  Here's what I posted:

_"I have a theory.

Everything BHO has touched has turned to dung. He literally has "The Minus Touch." Everything, that is, except one thing. And that's any commercial enterprise involving goats. It's my belief he's a shill for the Kenyan Goat Cartel. Probably a mafia style consortium of old boyhood cronies.

We have 'Big Oil.' We have 'Big Pharma.' And now I think we have 'Big Capra.'

Here's my evidence. We don't have enough jobs. We don't have enough accessible medical care. We don't have enough soldiers. Heck, we don't have enough bullets for soldiers. But go looking for anything involving Kenyan goats.

All the goat meat you want. All the goats' milk you can drink. The best kid gloves I've seen in decades. My wife says angora yarn for knitting can be found in craft stores by the barrel. And have you seen the White House lawn lately? It takes a real Kenyan goat herdsman to keep a commons area that neatly grazed.

I'm telling you blade-heads, watch your backs. This Pretender-in-Chief is going to get us hooked on a foreign capra-centered economy, and then when our national goat production tanks we'll be on the "horns" of our new Capran Masters.

Iron fist in an angora glove, I tell you..."_


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## David Gordon Burke (Jan 29, 2014)

Sarcasm.  Nobody likes it and half the people don't get it.  I think the post is hilarious...sadly there will always be someone out there to take issue with something you didn't mean literally.

But I do agree.  'Spin' might be synonymous with 'Convincing' - IMHO the best experience for a writer would be to participate in the school Debate team.  
Isn't that our job description right there?  To convince with words?  

With all due respect to members here, a great many post that are in reply to a previous post either deliberately or blindly side-step the original post's main point(s) and argue some apparently minor issue of a topic.  This is a very unconvincing way to 'Spin.'  A writer must meticulously disect each and every word, find meaning and never, ever leave a thread unanswered.  

Just a thought,

David Gordon Burke


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## WriterJohnB (Jan 29, 2014)

I find it hard to believe that anyone would believe this. Hold it, this IS the same country that elected this inept, uncaring man twice, despite his obvious disregard for the welfare of the American middle class. So I guess many people believe his speeches about how he's helping us, despite the lack of any evidence.

Okay, I've got 3 acres, maybe it's time to get into goat herding.

JohnB


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## The Tourist (Jan 29, 2014)

David, your math projection was very close to being right.  But I do cling to a belief, that is, the best way to solve a problem (besides a pool cue to the head) is with biting humor.

What troubles me the most, and "troubles" is actually too strong a word, is that one guy thought I was serious and really pondered this new conspiracy.  You could almost hear his mental wheels grinding away, _"Yeah, yeah, Tourist is right!  Costco did have goats' milk on sale this week!"_

Having said that, I wish more of the graybeards would step forward with unfiltered opinions.  Now everyone couches their supposedly free speech, checks the wind before stating a view and covers what little they do defend with layers of disclaimers.  If there are people who believe that a dozen foreign herdsman standing in fetid feces in a goat paddock a half a world away will topple our Republic, we're in worse trouble than I believe.

However, people who know me personally, and even some with restraining orders, know that I laugh most of the day.  I see the same bizarre world we all do, I just miss the honesty and I've never gotten used to the sound of man's voice whining.  I also believe that deposited into the wrong motorcycle grease encrusted hands, humor can be a powerful tool.

But, c'mon guys, it's me, your gentle fun loving highway denizen.  BHO can't even pump life into his own promises--what makes you think he manage something alive and breathing, like a little goat?  Obviously I was spoofing...


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## gr8writer (Jan 29, 2014)

Yes, obviously but have you ever thought that perhaps those replying to your thread were joking too? That's what I would do when someone posted an obviously sarcastic thread, I would pretend to go along with the spoof as a joke. Of course, that may be because I have a warped sense of humor.


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## The Tourist (Jan 29, 2014)

gr8writer said:


> Yes, obviously but have you ever thought that perhaps those replying to your thread were joking too?



Possibly, but the PMs were written in earnest.  But then, I think BHO probably knows more about Kenyan goats than he does the Republic, so maybe the joke's on me.

After all, many people in 1920s and 30s couldn't believe my relatives ran as much as they did, so perhaps Kenyan goat herdsmen really are the new mafia.

...and I share your warped sense of humor.  I intend to warp it more...

But let's be honest here.  Half the trouble I get into here is because of my mouth.  Biting wit and sarcasm are simply another arrow in the quiver of the strong female lead from which I stole it.  I'm not kidding anybody, nor do I wish to.

The heroes in my book are essentially Templars.  And whether they are the traditionalists or those corrupted by the reverend with an agenda, one of them makes this comment:

_"To our friends, the most comforting news is that we are coming.  To our enemies, the most terrifying news is that we are coming..."_

That's the man I want to be--in my prose and in my life.  Our duly elected buffoon openly states he intends to defy our system of checks and balances.  To that, *I told a joke*.  As a country, we should be demanding his impeachment.

But personally, I like goats, they're cute.  It's our "herdsman" I can't stand.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jan 29, 2014)

So was this post about your inability to convey sarcasm in writing, the poor reading skills of the people on this other message board, or just an excuse to air your political views?


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## Outiboros (Jan 29, 2014)

Poe's law in effect, I guess. But do we really need to discuss American politics here?


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## Morkonan (Jan 29, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> As writers, we can use the language to sway opinion.  For example, my own father told me that when I was a boy he had to listen to me carefully to know if I was lying to him.  The first time it happened, I was three....



Fiction writers are professional liars. A fiction writer knows how to dream up a believable story, how it needs to be presented, what elements need to be stressed and what holes have to be filled, just waiting for the inquisitive to attempt to deny it... If politicians ever start hiring professional fiction writers, we're all doomed.


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## The Tourist (Jan 29, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> Fiction writers are professional liars.



Well, yeah.  I resemble that remark.  You guys have to realize the vignette I wrote was not for this forum, but for a knife forum comprised of rednecks that bleed red, white and blue.

My message for us here, as writers, is that we can convey a point without ranting or being taciturn.  We can cajole our detractors.  Use a spoof or simple sarcasm and still get the point across.

Look at my little goat story in the context of the speech.  I didn't say one syllable about BHOs veracity, his failures, his agenda or even his cheap cologne.  Using the current penchant for people implying that any large company has sway with our elected officials, I created a false compact, "Big Capra."  I'm not even sure African goats of from any country on that continent--especially Kenya--have ever been for sale here.

However, look at the responses from lasm and Outiboros.  They got it immediately.  Without a single cue card they clearly understood I slammed BHO's failed policies.

And I steadfastly defend the concept.  Even my wife says I crack the funniest jokes just before I dump on some schmuck.  For me, use of the language, storytelling, jokes, epithets, innuendo and bizarre parables as the one depicted here, can be more biting then open, directed criticism.

And speaking of arrows in the quiver, Katniss would have been a lot funnier if I could have re-written her dialog.  Edgier, too, perhaps I should perfect the "stronger female lead..."


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## Morkonan (Jan 29, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> ...My message for us here, as writers, is that we can convey a point without ranting or being taciturn.  We can cajole our detractors.  Use a spoof or simple sarcasm and still get the point across....



We're used to arguing with ourselves... in our own heads. And, we're used to having to build arguments in the heads of others. How else can a writer convince someone that rubbing a magic lamp will squirt out a genie? 

If a writer can't empathize with a reader and understand the minds of their readers, they can't write effectively. Communication is a two-way street. In order to communicate effectively, I have to know that the words I am using are going to be effective in communicating with you and whoever else reads this post. Further, the way those words are structured makes a difference - I have to communicate intent and structure an argument appropriately, else I'm wasting calories typing on this keyboard.

Writers rip open the skulls of people every day in order to jump in with both feet and tinker with what's inside.


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## The Tourist (Jan 29, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> In order to communicate effectively, I have to know that the words I am using are going to be effective in communicating with you and whoever else reads this post.



And, bingo, that was the effect I was going for!

In order to throw mud without actually doing it, I created a story based on the anger and fears of that audience.  Let's just blurt it out, the group that I hang with think all of his minions are on the take and would sell us out for pocket change.  

But price supports for goats' milk?  Yikes, my wife had (cow's) milk and Oreo crumbs spurt out of her nose when I read the rough draft to her!  I don't think we'll ever be able to look at a goat in public again without busting a gut.

But amid the laughter, she knew what I was up to.

My follow-up piece will be about the NSA reporting to BHO that the "capra caper" has now been exposed on the internet.  Snowden is now a poor second...


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## Nickleby (Jan 29, 2014)

Writers are supposed to have their facts straight, even while spinning a yarn. When it turns into politics and starts affecting people's lives, it's disinformation. It used to be that average people could tell when someone was feeding them a line, but now the brainwashing is so pervasive, and the bar so low, that we can't tell satire from spin from reality.

Believing in a Kenyan goat conspiracy ... blaming one person or one group for all your problems ... there's not much difference between them. Things we'd scoff at on TV or in a comic book, we accept without question because we want them to be true.


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## gr8writer (Jan 29, 2014)

Nickleby said:


> Writers are supposed to have their facts straight, even while spinning a yarn. When it turns into politics and starts affecting people's lives, it's disinformation. It used to be that average people could tell when someone was feeding them a line, but now the brainwashing is so pervasive, and the bar so low, that we can't tell satire from spin from reality.
> 
> Believing in a Kenyan goat conspiracy ... blaming one person or one group for all your problems ... there's not much difference between them. Things we'd scoff at on TV or in a comic book, we accept without question because we want them to be true.



I accept nothing, life is farce. How do I even know I'm really here? I don't


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## The Tourist (Jan 29, 2014)

Ya' know guys, this was supposed to be a fun romp.  It was a story about a story.  Now granted, there was an undercurrent I felt was important--that being the power of humor.

My dad used to say that mankind did one of two things with every innovation.  One, they would make a weapon.  Two, they would make a toy.

I've found a way to do both at the same time.  But at the end of the day, it's not much deeper than that.

Odd coincidence, right after I posted the thread, my wife noticed a drone circling our street.  Being a biker, I know most of the governmental insignia, but this one is new to me.  What is it?


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## Kyle R (Jan 29, 2014)

Google tells me it's the flag of *Kenya*​. :encouragement:


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## The Tourist (Jan 29, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> Google tells me it's the flag of *Kenya*​. :encouragement:



Well, that can't be good...

They know I'm kidding don't they?  I mean, yeah, I've seen the studies on prolonged periods of exposure to the fecal debris in goat paddocks and frontal lobe dementia.  But they understand humor over there, don't they?

Yikes, now I'm kind of sorry I copied down the drone's aircraft registration number and used it to sign them up for "Obscenies For Weenie Peenies."  And shot out one of their rotors...

Is Kenya a nuclear power?


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## ppsage (Jan 29, 2014)

> Without a single cue card they clearly understood I slammed BHO's failed policies.


I'd say the actual take-away is that it's clearly understood that you think the policies are failed. People who don't already believe as you do, probably won't think this is particularly effective slamming, but they will certainly understand where your belief lies. That a large number of people thought this was real, well, you're right, that's special.


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## The Tourist (Jan 29, 2014)

ppsage, I don't mind disagreements and a good solid debate.  In fact, when I was in college on a drab rainy night, we'd order a pizza, pick a topic and debate it until the beer was gone.

Now, I'll admit, living in Madison has taught me contempt for the whiny, self-entitled oligarchy.  Anything they like is a Constitutional right, anything I like must be controlled--and if I object I must be a racist.  I don't even know why they get so mad.  After all, they live in their mother's basement rent free, they get to write all day on their "Occupy The Laundry Room" blog, and they will never know heartbreak.  After all, no woman is ever going to speak to them...

So I use humor in dealing with them.  Oh, and I pepper my prose with words like "coalition" and "war on misogyny" or lie to them that a Prius is going to the Indy Pace Car this year, stuff like that.  It makes them feel like part of society.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jan 30, 2014)

without a single cue card we understood you were trolling. Yes, amazing. If it weren't so utterly obvious and predictable. Good of you to admit it, though.


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## The Tourist (Jan 30, 2014)

lasm, it simply depends on whose ox is being gored.

When the left depicts rednecks we're all bumpkins from Duck Dynasty's central casting.  When a guy like me spears a liberal for fun and profit they bristle like a major crime is being committed.

So where is the crime, actually?  I spoofed a chief executive who is so woefully poor at his job even his own people are seeking cover.  And I did it with a ridiculous short story about a goat cartel.

If it ain't trolling when you do it, than it ain't trolling when I do it.  Besides, how do you really know BHO isn't really in bed with Kenyan herdsmen?  

You could write a humorous rebuttal.  In fact, for an entire forum of wordsmiths, I'm surprised no one has proffered a witty addenda to my offering.


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## Morkonan (Jan 31, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> ... Being a biker, I know most of the governmental insignia, but this one is new to me.  What is it?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya

Ah, I see someone beat me in the "Flag Quest" game... 


PS - "Satire" and "Irony" are not new literary or even political tools. Even people who might not be considered writers use them. Yes, I know, it's shameful and the Armed Writers of 'Merica are mobilizing their SUVs and Remington Double Action Pump Assault Basselopes in order to do something about it!

Basselope Project


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## The Tourist (Jan 31, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> the Armed Writers of 'Merica are mobilizing their SUVs and Remington Double Action Pump(s)



Nah, we switched over to SIG Sauers.  When Biden recommended shotguns we didn't want to be implicated with losers...

But this thread/question does effect my prose.  Oh, I like to make people think, and frankly most don't.  If some Kardashian hasn't worn it, dated it or eaten it to excess then modern folks don't want to know about it.

In fact, the next  time you see Heath Ledger's rendition of The Joker, don't just assume his comments are some bizarre punch-line.  I find him the most refreshing character in that series, and sadly the only one who spoke the unvarnished truth.

I always zig to the zags of the great unwashed.  And with good reason.  Haven't you seen enough action-adventure movies to know that when the entire populous runs in a singular direction it's always over a cliff...


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## Morkonan (Feb 1, 2014)

The Tourist said:


> Nah, we switched over to SIG Sauers.  When Biden recommended shotguns we didn't want to be implicated with losers...



I lol'd in the coffee shop... 



> ...In fact, the next  time you see Heath Ledger's rendition of The Joker, don't just assume his comments are some bizarre punch-line.  I find him the most refreshing character in that series, and sadly the only one who spoke the unvarnished truth.



I think that his performance was the best character actor performance that I've ever witnessed. It's a crying shame he isn't around to repeat it.



> I always zig to the zags of the great unwashed.  And with good reason.  Haven't you seen enough action-adventure movies to know that when the entire populous runs in a singular direction it's always over a cliff...



Always run to the sound of the guns... It's certainly never dull.

(Incidentally, I think Breathed's "Bloom County" is one of the most masterful pieces of social commentary through irony, satire and comedy that we've seen as a species since Swift's "Gulliver's Travels.")


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## The Tourist (Feb 1, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> Always run to the sound of the guns... It's certainly never dull.



Boy, you really want to join me on The Group W Bench, don't you.  Well, come on board.  I met three very nice ladies here this week with a sense of humor and decided preference for "bad boys."

One of them tells me she's a brunette.  I was kind of hoping for fun and death threats, but then, the day ain't over yet...


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## ppsage (Feb 2, 2014)

> You could write a humorous rebuttal. In fact, for an entire forum of wordsmiths, I'm surprised no one has proffered a witty addenda to my offering.


So, I was very tempted by this, until I started thinking about it. Decided the form suggested's really not so much a writing thing anymore. This making up of weirdly hyperbolic stories to respond to someone of a differing opinion, all the while talking completely past one another. I think it's more of a commercial television thing these days. Crossfire and all that. Besides that, it has almost zero remunerative value in today's literary market. Well, maybe a few columnists scratch out a buck or two. Plus Carville and his babe.

Besides that, it's sort of against the rules here.

So, really, it's not the least surprising to me.

Now if this were Paris, in the days of the Scholastics; whole different story. They'd be giving us degrees. And besides that, those guys had true appreciation for personal cutlery.


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## The Tourist (Feb 2, 2014)

ppsage said:


> Besides that, it's sort of against the rules here.



Well, since I'm the OP I don't think they'll mind.  After all, what is the real ideology of "spin" anyway?  To me, it's taking the original postulates of a position and restating them to buttress your previously and openly entrenched position.

I used humor to deride politics by drawing a parallel to a fictitious goat cartel.  You could lambaste the concept by proffering a treatise that I'm defending the union busting activities of Yankee Hircus, Inc., a meglo-milking conglomerate that's a shill for Mitt Romney.  Easy-peasy, lemon squeasy.



> And besides, those guys had true appreciation for personal cutlery.



...from your lips...

As a polisher I do hope that knife fighting comes back into vogue after the glory years of the 1950s.  While I seriously wonder about the motives of Obi Wan Kenobi, and I'm a gun fanatic myself, I must admit that raw courage and gleaming blades define the true courage of man.  It is a more civilized, and honest way, to separate the sheep from the goats--pardon the pun.


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