# Proselytizing and Perspective



## Farror (Feb 12, 2014)

The barman stood in front of his vertical shelves, stacked with
dozens of bottles, dusty and dull coloured,
they catch corners of light from sunken chandeliers,
looking for all the world like a stained glass window at night.
He delivers 40 proof sermons to a congregation of alcoholics, and me.
The room is perfect. Dingy, not shabby, lit up,
not clinical, with enough shadow to peer in to, 
and spotlights to slump in.
From hip to ceiling, the wall is cluttered
with photographs displaying varying levels of decay,
reminders that cover the full range of drunk human sentiment.
I'm there because, looking around,
I can't possibly worry about my problems.
Existential crisis is tacky in a room where
everybody has a better story than:
I worry that the revelations that used to roll and resonate
like thunder across my soul are coming few and far between
and softer than I remember.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 12, 2014)

> I worry that the revelations that used to roll and resonate
> like thunder on my soul are coming few and far between
> and softer than I remember.


Those that do still work very effectively though  
I have little to say other than I appreciated and enjoyed this.


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## Farror (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks Olly, glad you got something out of it. 

"reminders that cover the full range of drunk human sentiment"

I'm thinking of dropping drunk, and changing the line to "reminders that cover the full range of the worst of human sentiment". Too wordy?


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## Gumby (Feb 12, 2014)

> The barman stood in front of his vertical shelves, stacked with
> dozens of bottles, dusty and dull coloured,
> they catch corners of light from sunken chandeliers,
> looking for all the world like a stained glass window at night.
> He delivers 40 proof sermons to a congregation of alcoholics, and me.




Loved the opening and how it set up the image of a preacher standing in front of a congregation with the stained glass windows behind him. I was struck by the last line and how the speaker sets himself apart from the alcoholics, making the distinction between them and himself.




> From hip to ceiling, the wall is cluttered
> with photographs displaying varying levels of decay,
> reminders that cover the full range of drunk human sentiment.
> I'm there because, looking around,
> I can't possibly worry about my problems.



Not sure about your proposed change, I kind of like drunk, but if you keep 'drunk' it seems to me as if it should be 'drunken' or have a comma between drunk and human. May just be me, though.

The next line puzzled me, 





> I'm there because,


as I  wasn't sure if the speaker meant he was there on the wall in a photograph, or if he meant there in the bar. If the latter, it might should say 'I'm here because.'




> Existential crisis is tacky in a room where
> everybody has a better story than:
> I worry that the revelations that used to roll and resonate
> like thunder across my soul are coming few and far between
> and softer than I remember.



I absolutely love the ending, great last line. Really nice work, enjoyed it thoroughly.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 12, 2014)

Seems wordy to me, possibly 'Drunk human's sentiment' would be clearer, personlly I would lose 'that' and make it 'covering', but it is tinkering.


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## alanmt (Feb 12, 2014)

Poems by Ilasir and Farror in the same day?  Awesome!  Except apparently you are going drinking without me.  

Don't have time for a full review atm, but will come back.  The last three lines are absolutely perfect.


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## Pandora (Feb 12, 2014)

For what it is worth I like it just as is, drunk, an important word to the poem, to an important line. 

Line after line you took me through that bar with your great images then your message . . . there is always someone worse off than ourselves,
isn't that the truth. 

"reminders that cover the full range of drunk human sentiment." I love drunk sentiment, finally the shields are down.
I've spent many a great time in a bar like yours.

and Rolling soft is nice.

Great poem Farror, the title doesn't do it justice though, maybe just me, I'd like something more blatant.


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## Gumby (Feb 12, 2014)

alanmt said:


> Poems by Ilasir and Farror in the same day?  Awesome!



That's what I thought! Old home week, eh? Not to mention Nick posted a poem, too.


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## Farror (Feb 12, 2014)

There's still so many people around! Nice to see familiar faces.

Gumby, thanks for the feedback. I'll play around with the drunk human sentiment bit. I agree about the ambiguity present "I'm there because". I'll consider my options. 

Alan, glad to see you're still hanging around. I look forward to your review!

And Pandora, many thanks for giving this a read. What specifically was irksome to you regarding the title?


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## Ilasir Maroa (Feb 12, 2014)

I really loved the images here, but I felt that you could cut a few lines of bar description, since while they are useful for setting the scene, they don't necessarily apply very strongly to the theme.  A brilliantly articulated theme, especially in those final lines that Olly quoted.

I also think "Every problem is worse than mine." could be cut, because the juxtaposition of the line before it and the line after makes the same point rather effectively.


Also chiming in on the whole "Wow, so many familiar faces" theme.  I'm glad I decided to drop by here again.


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## Farror (Feb 12, 2014)

Thanks reading, Ilasir.

Are there any particular lines of bar description that seem extraneous?

I agree that "Every problem is worse than mine" is a relatively weak line. I'll consider dropping it, and see how it reads for a while.


Once again, really appreciate the feedback.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Feb 12, 2014)

I felt like the church metaphor at the beginning did not quite fit with the second half of the poem.  Perhaps rather than cutting lines, you expand that metaphor to encompass more of the piece?


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## Farror (Feb 12, 2014)

I hear ya.


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## alanmt (Feb 14, 2014)

I don't have much constructive to say about this; it is quite good as is. Let me try:

Having trouble visualizing vertical shelves; not sure what you are describing here, Farror. 

Is "I'm there because" really necessary? It gives the narrator a purpose in going and being there, but it's a gray purpose, an "I am going to listen and see people worse off than me to make me feel better about myself" purpose (unless he is a self-deluding alcoholic talking himself out of why he is really there) which is cool, but for some reason I would like it better if he goes there because he is feeling angsty and has this discovery as to how his problems compare while there.  Does that make sense?  probably me projecting something or other.

I like how the way you put words together is surprising and fresh - spotlights to slump in, from hip to ceiling.

I cannot tell you how much I like the fact that you used the phrase "existential crisis" in the same sentence as the word "tacky".


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## Farror (Feb 15, 2014)

Hey Alan, thanks for the feedback.

Vertical shelves was trying to create the impression of a wall of bottles looming behind somebody. So the bottles are not all laid out on a counter top or something.

I'll see if I can work through that segment. It's mostly for explanation, and I'd ideally like it to serve to content a bit better.

Thanks again, and glad you enjoyed!


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## Pandora (Feb 17, 2014)

Farror said:


> And Pandora, many thanks for giving this a read. What specifically was irksome to you regarding the title?



welcome,

_irksome_ a good word we don't hear much anymore, like that. Ummm more like the title didn't attract this barfly 
which was just a personal thing. Sounded formal for the feel of the poem but I was there for sure. 
Made me thirsty with each read :friendly_wink:


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## Farror (Feb 18, 2014)

Interesting. Thanks for the thoughts.


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## Nick (Feb 19, 2014)

Hi Farror,

I thoroughly enjoyed this read - don't you love those drunken, pub-induced existential crises? There are a couple of things I wouldn't mind some clarification on, and also some more imagery for. The parallel between the barman and a priest is excellent, but I feel you don't take advantage of it enough. I don't mean for you to milk it, but maybe one more comparison; what is their 'Holy text'? Maybe a small comment on pews? I feel like the church analogy deserves one more metaphor.

Could you also explain "spotlights to slump in"? I can visualise it, but it doesn't seem right; surely if you're creating a pallid bar-scene here, the alcoholics will shy away from the spotlights, like wounded animals? 

As has been said, the final stanza puts a beautiful seal on this poem, and leaves me to wonder about my own revelations. Yet, even in the upsetting truth that the revelations are "softer" than you remember, I don't feel a hint of sadness - instead, I feel great loss in this poem. I think that works far more effectively for you than any lamenting could.

Thanks for sharing, Farror - you've left me with food for thought,
Nick


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## Farror (Feb 19, 2014)

Nick, I really appreciate the kind words and helpful feedback.

I'm still doing some heavy tinkering with this poem. There is a good chance that I'll do at least one more bit that plays up the preacher/barman parallel, something to possibly link the two halves of the poem together better thematically.

My image for spotlights to slump in was people at bar stools. Generally the bar is lit, often by an overhead light. So that's what I was picturing.

Really glad you enjoyed!


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## qwertyportne (Feb 23, 2014)

*Forty Proof Sermons?*

Some poems are so poorly crafted, well, I can't think of anything to say, and if I could, I wouldn't know where to start. 

Your poem is crafted so skillfully, I want to say all sorts of things, take it apart to uncover all the intricate, elegant ways in which it is put together. But as Wordsworth said, "We murder to dissect." Yeah, but wait until we put it back together again, William!

Picking at the feathers of a bird while it's trying to sing is like editing while you're trying to freewrite. The song is fatally interrupted. Writers block! When it's finished singing, however, then you can look for ways to improve the song, better choreograph the dance between author and audience.

There a few nit-picky things I might suggest but others have already mentioned them. Mostly I'd like to mention what you did right and go into some detail about how you did it right.

One of the most important differences between prose and poetry is that prose is merely ABOUT something, whereas poetry IS something. That takes us to meaning. How a poem means is more compelling than what it means.

If only more poets would do what you have done: convey the abstract meaning with concrete inagery and thereby give us a sensory presence in your poem, so we are not left standing outside looking in. Three cheers for existential and tacky in the same line! When a poem pulls the readers in, they will invest themselves in it, even if participation means looking up a $5 word in their dictionary.

I've lost track of the times so-called experts have told me to avoid abstractions like the Bubonic Plague. It's the same bad advice that poet's should show, not tell. Horse pucky! We should show AND tell AND use abstractions by weaving each skillfully into our poem to create poems that are more than a mere sum of their parts.

Your poem made me want to call the bar tender over so I could order a drink and confess my sins. What bartender hasn't felt as if s/he were a kind of priest?

How you chose to break the lines is also interesting. I frequently break my own rules for breaking a line, but what an interesting thread it would be to hear criteria other poets use to enjamb lines. In that regard, you might consider deleting a comma here and there, and enjamb the line instead. The break at the end of a line can sometimes take the place of a comma or an en or em dask dash, give readers that pause we want them to take before continuing.

And thank you for not using any semi-colons! I've had many heated arguments with semi-colons and I usually conclude by saying, "For crying out loud, make up your mind. Are you a comma or a colon?"

I agree with those who suggested you change the title. Something more sensory than "Proselytizing..." but still hinting at the content without giving the whole show away. Something like "Forty Proof Sermons." I know you'll come up with an attention-getting revision. When is a poem ever finished?

And bless you for not naming it "Untitled" which always makes me want to tell the poet, (like I tell semi-colons): "For crying out loud. You spent all this time with your poem and it never told you what it wants to be called? Were you listening? You wouldn't send your son or daughter into the world without a name, would you? Better to name them Sue and Sam.

~ Bill, and that's not my birth name...


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## Squalid Glass (Feb 23, 2014)

Just wanted to stop by to let you know how much I enjoyed this poem. It's incredibly powerful and the perfect length. Well done!


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## Farror (Feb 26, 2014)

Qwerty, thank you for the thorough read over! Glad you enjoyed it, and I appreciate your useful observations.

Squalid, thanks for the kind words. I tried to keep it punchy.


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