# Writing for money?



## Olly Buckle (Nov 19, 2018)

I was wondering how many here have made money from writing, and then I wondered are there any for whom it is their main or sole income?

I also wonder what sort of writing can provide a living? We tend to think of novels and the like, but how about advertising copy, news paper articles, or even things like rule books and instruction sheets? Somebody must write it all and it is far commoner than novels.


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## sigmadog (Nov 19, 2018)

Most larger advertising and design agencies employ writers. I'm a small fry designer, so I do my own writing occasionally.

I think a big writing market is journalism, whether for traditional media or new internet-based media. That's a huuuuuge market, though I wonder how lucrative it is for the majority of those engaged in it. Certainly the ones at the top appear to do well enough.


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## Bayview (Nov 19, 2018)

I have a day job that pays pretty well and I've gotten used to a fairly high standard of living, so I can't rely on my writing to maintain that. But I make more from writing than I would if I were working a full-time minimum wage job, so I guess technically I _could _live on my writing? Just not live well.

That's from writing novels, mostly. The occasional novella and even more rarely a short story. But mostly novels.


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## Guard Dog (Nov 19, 2018)

There's always at least some technical writing involved with design/drafting work, and in a couple of instances companies I've worked for had tried to get me more heavily involved in their write-ups for various products.

And although I didn't mind doing what was needed for the people out on the assembly line, I refused to deal with anything that was sales-related.

So I suppose I have _partially_ made a living with writing, and _could_ have let that become a larger percentage of my work, but I refused to go there even then.

Granted, the type of writing I'm talking about is nothing like writing a novel, I still wanted no part of it.

But then, I've always been rather stubborn about what I would or wouldn't do.




G.D.


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## Ralph Rotten (Nov 19, 2018)

I make a few thousand a year on writing, still not enough to live on.
And there is no sitting back and enjoying the royalty checks; you have to keep putting out new stuff and marketing the old stuff or your royalty checks dwindle.


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## Darren White (Nov 20, 2018)

I write poetry, and I have only produced one book (more will follow). But I think it may be even more difficult living from poetry books than from any other genre. I AM selling though...


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## Dluuni (Nov 20, 2018)

You can also look into grantwriting; that's pretty lucrative once you've built up some connections.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 20, 2018)

Dluuni said:


> You can also look into grantwriting; that's pretty lucrative once you've built up some connections.



Grantwriting, not a term I am familiar with, writing for people looking for a grant?


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## Reynard (Nov 20, 2018)

I have done some commission work in the past, not to much though, but it made me feel better that someone would be willing to pay for my scribbles.


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## Phil Istine (Nov 20, 2018)

I've never earned a penny from my writing, but it is still early days for me.  I did win a trophy for a flash fiction competition, so I suppose I could pawn it  .
It is my intention to self-publish on the internet at some point.  I tell myself that my writing needs to improve before taking that step, and I still feel that way, but when I read some other things that are self-published, I know I can match or better the quality.
Originally, I set myself a target of December 31st, but I am way off; unfortunately, I need to work for a living too.  I think end of winter is more realistic.

Forthcoming attractions.


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## Reynard (Nov 20, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> I've never earned a penny from my writing, but it is still early days for me.  I did win a trophy for a flash fiction competition, so I suppose I could pawn it  .
> It is my intention to self-publish on the internet at some point.  I tell myself that my writing needs to improve before taking that step, and I still feel that way, but when I read some other things that are self-published, I know I can match or better the quality.
> Originally, I set myself a target of December 31st, but I am way off; unfortunately, I need to work for a living too.  I think end of winter is more realistic.



I feel the same way about trying to polish my craft as much as I can before I publish anything, but I always seem to never be satisfied with my work.  I’m constantly revising and doubting whether it’s worthy enough for the eyes of anyone else.

I do agree that when you compare yourself to the level that most Self-Published books seem to be at, I think that I may be able to stand out.  But if that’s the bar I hold myself to then I will never improve, and I’m lazy enough to accept that if I’m not careful.

Keep your head up and good luck, I know I need it…

"R"


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## clark (Nov 20, 2018)

Let me tell a good story. Thirty-five years ago, I was one year into what proved to be my last salaried gig--an instructor of business and technical writing at the BC Institute of Technology. I got a phone call from a friend who was Marketing Manager for Macmillan Bloedel, a foresty giant at the time in BC.  He explained that the company was submitting a refinancing proposal (for close to 100 million dollars) to financiers in Toronto.  Preparing for and writing the Proposal had fallen to a VP who had just had a severe "mental health event" in the throes of which he had locked himself in his den at home, where he shredded all his drafts of the Proposal (along with his personal bank records, his wife's recipe book, and numerous other precious docs) before trying to kill himself. BUT, thank gawd all his notes and supporting docs were in his office.  Would I write the Proposal? Ten copies of it had to be bound and on the company jet no later than Wednesday morning.  He had a printer ready to go, etc. It was a Friday morning  I had a family outing scheduled for the weekend. I told him he was insane. Writing--just the _writing_--a funding proposal of such magnitude would normally take a couple of weeks. I would have four _days _, allowing time for printing and binding. He said he'd pay $2000. At the time that was a month's salary.  I said no.  He said $5000.  Good grief!  I bravely squeaked no again. He shouted "$8,000 you bastard!" (I was the only senior business/technical writer he knew). Never was a family outing cancelled so quickly.  I essentially moved into the company offices for those four days.  There was blood-sweat, I swear, on every page.  Writing Funding--OLLY--or Grant Proposals is the toughest kind of business writing there is, and I won't say I earned every dollar of that exorbitant fee, but pretty close. With charts, graphs and pictures, the Proposal was 62 pages, about 35 of that actual writing. The company got its financing.  Six months later they hired a full-time Communications Director at a salary in 2018 dollars over $100,000.  So, yeah, there is comfortable money out there for business writing, but you have to sell your soul to get it.  I vowed as I finished that Proposal to never do that kind of writing again.  And I never did


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## Hill.T.Manner (Nov 20, 2018)

Nope! I mean... I'd love to at some point, just takes a lot of work and persistence which I'm only just now starting to really motivate myself towards.


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## moderan (Nov 20, 2018)

I make a little more than half of my income from writing. Political and sports journalism first, weird fiction editing and writing second, plus various freelance side-hustles. You HAVE to keep producing. The average writer is said to make 10K annually. That ain't much, but it's about right. Editing pays best -- professional standard is @3 bucks a page for simple copy-editing. But few people who can afford that need freelancers.
This is the first year I'll make more than that average -- I turned fulltime pro three years ago. 2019 has three anthologies, two novels, and a collection scheduled so far, with two more collections and a novel under consideration, and a dozen or so shorter works on people's desks. I've yet to crack the 'books in bookstores' barrier -- that's next.


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## sigmadog (Nov 20, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> Originally, I set myself a target of December 31, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019.



There. I put you on the same schedule I use.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 20, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> Originally, I set myself a target of December 31st, but I am way off; unfortunately, I need to work for a living too.  I think end of winter is more realistic.



Reading about how professionals write I think Terry Pratchett was fairly typical. When he began he worked for the CEGB and came home every night and wrote exactly 300 words. Most of them work regular hours or aim for a regular daily output. Having a realistic aim and sticking to it appears to be what actually gets the work done.

The one that did make an impression was the one who said, "Yes, you can get inspired and sit up all night writing, but if you are honest you will delete it all as rubbish next day.


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## Plasticweld (Nov 20, 2018)

One thing not mentioned is that when you turn a hobby or something you enjoy doing into a business, it no longer becomes fun. 

Years ago I started a motorcycle business. I have ridden bikes since I was old enough to do it.  We did a lot of sport bikes and race bikes for the track and street.  While I did get to ride, I do remember spending many of my weekends in the pits at the race track, not riding but selling and working.  Yes I made good money doing it, I put in a tremendous amount of hours each week.  What was once a passion turned into a job.  While some would say I was lucky to be able to take what I did and make a living, it was sad that I took something I loved doing and turned it into work. 

The handful of jobs I have done for money as a writer, is the least amount of money I have ever made for the most amount of work. While it was very rewarding in one sense it took the shine off of writing for me, it was no longer what I did to relax, no longer what I looked forward to at the end of the day...just one more chore.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 20, 2018)

That ties in with my previous post, people think of writing as being liberating, you can do it whenever you want, but those who are actual professionals don't approach it that way.


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## Guard Dog (Nov 20, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> One thing not mentioned is that when you turn a hobby or something you enjoy doing into a business, it no longer becomes fun.
> 
> Years ago I started a motorcycle business. I have ridden bikes since I was old enough to do it.  We did a lot of sport bikes and race bikes for the track and street.  While I did get to ride, I do remember spending many of my weekends in the pits at the race track, not riding but selling and working.  Yes I made good money doing it, I put in a tremendous amount of hours each week.  What was once a passion turned into a job.  While some would say I was lucky to be able to take what I did and make a living, it was sad that I took something I loved doing and turned it into work.
> 
> The handful of jobs I have done for money as a writer, is the least amount of money I have ever made for the most amount of work. While it was very rewarding in one sense it took the shine off of writing for me, it was no longer what I did to relax, no longer what I looked forward to at the end of the day...just one more chore.



And this pretty much sums up why I have no interest in being a published author.

If there ever comes a day when I have a bunch of finished work sitting around doing nothing, I may change my mind... but then it'll just be a case of me deciding I want to take up getting published as a hobby. 

I've got plenty to do with the writing alone, at the moment. I don't want or need the weight of trying to get it published added onto that.



G.D.


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## Plasticweld (Nov 20, 2018)

Guard Dog said:


> And this pretty much sums up why I have no interest in being a published author.
> 
> If there ever comes a day when I have a bunch of finished work sitting around doing nothing, I may change my mind... but then it'll just be a case of me deciding I want to take up getting published as a hobby.
> 
> ...




 The biggest joy is still reading one of my stories to someone. I write either non-fiction or humor, almost all of it family based.  I have yet to have some listen to a story written about them that did not make them smile.


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## Sir-KP (Nov 20, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> One thing not mentioned is that when you turn a hobby or something you enjoy doing into a business, it no longer becomes fun.


That's what I always say to people. Doing something to serve yourself and serving other people is a whole lot different. There are cases where how you do things for yourself fits other people's interest. But even so, there will be time when these people will not happy with your decision and you will eventually have to make a change to serve them or a new audience.

I wouldn't say writing is my hobby because I see it as a work right now. But the story itself is my own and what I always want to publish. So it's half hobby-half work. I'll see if that statement applies after it gets published.


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## Guard Dog (Nov 20, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> The biggest joy is still reading one of my stories to someone. I write either non-fiction or humor, almost all of it family based.  I have yet to have some listen to a story written about them that did not make them smile.



I actually did something similar on another forum... wrote up a scene with one of the people there as the protagonist.

It made me grin to read her reaction to it.
( She thought I was crazy, of course, but said she liked seeing herself portrayed as an ass-kicking cyborg badass. )



G.D.


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## Plasticweld (Nov 20, 2018)

GD I have done the same.  I have written entire stories using members here on the WF as characters in a story.  There are some unique personalities here, and they often make great characters.


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## Ralph Rotten (Nov 22, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> GD I have done the same.  I have written entire stories using members here on the WF as characters in a story.  There are some unique personalities here, and they often make great characters.




Was I the hero? :icon_joker:


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