# So I've been offered a publishing contract...



## Dave Watson (Mar 21, 2014)

... but it's not a very good one I'm afraid. 

No advance, 12.5% royalty on first 100 sales, then 20% after. You do all your own publicity and promotion and stuff, which I don't mind as I do that anyway. They make your book available for wholesale through various channels, in ebook and paperback format. Main reasons I'm not going for it is that all of the books with this publisher that I've looked at on Amazon are currently sitting way lower in the charts than my own novel, and most have either none, mediocre or really bad reviews. Plus the publisher generally charges over £3 for an ebook and around £9 for a paperback. 

I self published by debut novel as an ebook on Amazon two years ago, and have worked it out that as I currently get 70% royalty for each copy which costs £1.50 (half the price of that set by this publisher) I'm actually better off doing it myself, plus my book is already better ranked and reviewed than anything they've got on Amazon that I've seen. 

Still though, was nice to get a letter that wasn't a knock back for a change. In your face, rejection tray! I now have the weird task of writing a rejection letter to a publisher. :mrgreen:


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## popsprocket (Mar 21, 2014)

You could always try pushing for a better deal. Lay out how much better you are doing on your own than with them and see if they'll beat the offer. Maybe they'll throw in some marketing budget for you or something.


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## Dave Watson (Mar 21, 2014)

popsprocket said:


> You could always try pushing for a better deal. Lay out how much better you are doing on your own than with them and see if they'll beat the offer. Maybe they'll throw in some marketing budget for you or something.



Possibly, but I doubt they're the type of publisher who negotiate deals dude. They're called Netherwold Books, an imprint of Mirador, who themselves have a variety of author packages where you pay _them _for promotion and publicity services.


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## Gavrushka (Mar 21, 2014)

I'd look at it beyond the direct financial benefit. - A merit-inspired contract will look good on a CV, and gives you access to a publisher pre-disposed towards you for your future works. - Your talent is apparent, the road is long and this is an important _*step forward*_.

Sign the damned contract, and accept my congratulations. Two year hence, send me a freakingly humongous cheque for what will, in hindsight, be the best advice you ever had...

...And if it wasn't you can seek me out and gut me like pig, so it's win / win! 

(umm make sure it is a single book contract btw, and take legal advice!)


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## Gargh (Mar 21, 2014)

I'd be concerned by that price point for paperbacks - that's two pounds higher than a lot of well-established authors, aside from the odd one in the literary set. I also have to wonder what you'd be contracting for if no marketing or publicity is included? Ask them to send you a few copies of things they've published while you consider their contract, so you can have a look at the quality of the typesetting and images. If they do, you get some free books (!) and if they don't... well, it's hardly a high value capital investment if they really value you. It may be they're just chancing their arm at a low risk possibility because of the recent publicity you've had. It really is the absence of promotional support that would concern me the most though.


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## N J Xkey (Mar 21, 2014)

Oooh, I know someone who had a similar deal. The publisher did no promotion whatsoever and they really haven't made any money at all from it... That said, a publishing deal is a publishing deal and if you're good at promotion anyway it could be a big boost for future works and query letters... How about doing a little sneaky, sneaky... Contact other (better) publishers with the news that you have ALREADY been offered a contract but want to give them the chance to offer you a better deal before you commit... You never know


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## Dave Watson (Mar 21, 2014)

N J Xkey said:


> Oooh, I know someone who had a similar deal. The publisher did no promotion whatsoever and they really haven't made any money at all from it... That said, a publishing deal is a publishing deal and if you're good at promotion anyway it could be a big boost for future works and query letters... How about doing a little sneaky, sneaky... Contact other (better) publishers with the news that you have ALREADY been offered a contract but want to give them the chance to offer you a better deal before you commit... You never know



LOL! Exactly what I'm doing right now; sending emails and phoning the publishers that haven't got back to me yet! 

I've also called Netherworld and told them this and they've asked to be kept in the loop and for me to give them an answer by the end of April, so I've got some time to chew it over. As you say, a deal is a deal, and it's not as if I'm making any money just now anyway.


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## N J Xkey (Mar 21, 2014)

Ha ha, you've got the savvy going on  Yeah, see what you can get before committing, and if you do go for it make sure it's a one book deal  Oh and huge congratulations! Even a deal you don't want is a big compliment! Good for you


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## dale (Mar 21, 2014)

20% is far below the standard royalty rate. you should be getting double that, anyway.


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## A_Jones (Mar 21, 2014)

Never settle when you think you are worth more.  This definitely sounds like a terrible idea.  Go for the gold man! You are worth it!


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## shadowwalker (Mar 21, 2014)

There's a lengthy discussion of Mirador over at Absolute Writes Bewares section - and they don't come out smelling nice.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194055

And yeah, just because a "publishing company" wants you to sign with them doesn't mean it's a good thing. Contracts should be negotiated, and some companies it's just better to walk away from.


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## Dave Watson (Mar 21, 2014)

shadowwalker said:


> There's a lengthy discussion of Mirador over at Absolute Writes Bewares section - and they don't come out smelling nice.
> 
> http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194055
> 
> And yeah, just because a "publishing company" wants you to sign with them doesn't mean it's a good thing. Contracts should be negotiated, and some companies it's just better to walk away from.



Yep, that very thread was what came up when I did an niitial search on Netherworld Books to see what I could find out about them. I've just registered with that site to see if anyone else there has any more info on them. Just trying to figure out if this would be a step forward or a perilous step to the side.


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## bazz cargo (Mar 21, 2014)

Sounds like they want to piggyback on you rather than do any serious publishing. Bet a contract with them would bite you in the bum at a later date.


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## krishan (Mar 30, 2014)

According to the FAQ on their website their art department creates all of their book covers. The covers I can find look awful and amateur. They also say that they may "recommend" you an editor, who you would then have to contact yourself. This resembles the start of a common scam in which publishers will recommend authors to a specific editor in exchange for a kickback from the editor's fee.

If you are expected to handle the publicity for your book, and you pay for your own editing, what is it that they actually provide? A bad cover? Conversion to an eBook? Making a book available for wholesale is a relatively easy, inexpensive process that doesn't guarantee a single sale. There's really nothing of value on offer.

Additionally, their website is clearly geared towards persuading authors  to publish with them, rather than towards selling books on behalf of  the authors they're already publishing. They seem to be a vanity / subsidy publisher.


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## qwertyman (Mar 31, 2014)

Hi Dave, congratulations, it's a chalk mark on the wall whatever happens.

Did you contact them in the first place? Did you find their details somewhere and submit a few pages? How did the contract come to be offered?

I'm a stranger to this approach.  I have always sent my work to Agents.


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## Dave Watson (Mar 31, 2014)

Hey Qwerty. Yeah, most of my submissions have been to agents, but I've sent a few direct to publishers that will take them in open submission periods. 

I found Netherworld Books through a Google search for horror publishers in the UK. I called them up at first and spoke to them, and was quite surprised when they asked for the whole novel instead of the usual 3 chapters or so. They sent me an email a few weeks later sayng they'd like to take it further and sent me a copy of the contract.


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## Dave Watson (Apr 2, 2014)

Guys, I'm kind of freaking out right now. Just got an email from Permuted Press, saying they've accepted my two novels for publication and to contact them in order to discuss the details. I've replied, and am now sitting here shaking like a particularly nervous leaf on a very anxious tree. By all accounts, Permuted are a pretty big name in the horror genre. 

Holy crap.


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## dale (Apr 2, 2014)

you're moving up that ladder, bro. keep striding upward. sooner or later you'll hit that roof. ya know? lol


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## Greimour (Apr 2, 2014)

There is not a chance I would agree to what they offer. 

The thread linked explains why perfectly.


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## bookmasta (Apr 2, 2014)

Movin' on up in the world! Congrats, Dave!


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## Gyarachu (Apr 2, 2014)

Congrats Dave! I'll get a headstart on making sure everyone knows how we've been best buds since kindergarten.


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## Gavrushka (Apr 3, 2014)

I'm rehearsing my calm and casual '_I know him_' line for when I see your offerings in the local book store. 

It's great to read the positivity in your posts, and they've a contagious feel about them too.

Just out of interest, did you get _any_ sleep at all last night?


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## Dave Watson (Apr 3, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> I'm rehearsing my calm and casual '_I know him_' line for when I see your offerings in the local book store.
> 
> It's great to read the positivity in your posts, and they've a contagious feel about them too.
> 
> Just out of interest, did you get _any_ sleep at all last night?



Not much Gav. Was still wide awake till about 4am then up again at 6.30am to take the wife to work. Don't feel tired right now though. I've got a day ahead of me of harassing agents who've already turned me down and other publishers I've submitted to. Trying to keep my calm head on, but I keep getting the urge to giggle like a schoolgirl.


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## Terry D (Apr 3, 2014)

Keep us posted Dave. Congratulations.


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## Kyle R (Apr 3, 2014)

Dave Watson said:


> Guys, I'm kind of freaking out right now. Just got an email from Permuted Press, saying they've accepted my two novels for publication and to contact them in order to discuss the details. I've replied, and am now sitting here shaking like a particularly nervous leaf on a very anxious tree. By all accounts, Permuted are a pretty big name in the horror genre.
> 
> Holy crap.



Excellent news!  Congrats!


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## Dave Watson (Apr 3, 2014)

Thanks guys. So the deal is Permuted want to publish my new book, plus the novel and short story I self published on Amazon in 2012. I've just spent the last six hours submitting my work to agents I've not aproached before, telling them what's going on, and also got in touch with two other publishers I submitted to to tell them the news, and one of them came back within the hour and requested the full MS. 

Oh yeah, and I also just got an article on being a mature student published! Give it a look and share it about if you like.

https://www.careeraddict.com/en/666...tations-the-lowdown-on-being-a-mature-student

Thanks again for all the good wishes folks. I'll be sure to keep you all in the loop.


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## N J Xkey (Apr 3, 2014)

Oh this is such fabulous news! I'm really chuffed to bits for you.


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## patskywriter (Apr 3, 2014)

Yay! Great news!


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## Marc (May 3, 2014)

N J Xkey said:


> Oh this is such fabulous news! I'm really chuffed to bits for you.



Me too. BTW, what does "chuffed to bits" mean?


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## Dave Watson (May 4, 2014)

Marc said:


> Me too. BTW, what does "chuffed to bits" mean?



Pleased!


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