# Can you learn how to write well by reading guidebooks and the like? (1 Viewer)



## Arvind (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm a scientist by trade trying to improve my writing skills and I was wondering..

Was most of your present writerly ability acquired by/through
A: perusing guidebooks on style (and stuff like Stephen King's "On Writing" would fit under here) and other "manuals".
or B: Reading published material (fiction, non-fiction, poetry etc.)
or C: Critique from peers and sheer trial and error.
or D: Natural ability

Naturally I'd expect most of the folks responding to this OP to attribute their skills to a mix of all four - in which case it'd be nice if you could rank them in order of importance. In my case: B, D, C, A 

Oh right, you can answer the question in the thread title too, if you so wish.


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## garza (Jul 22, 2010)

Some writing guidebooks of the type you mention may be useful, I don't know. I've never read any. 

Three books that I have used constantly from childhood are Hart's Rules, Fowler's Modern English Usage, and Oxford's Concise English Dictionary. Those are all the reference books you need. If you are in the U.S. and writing research or technical papers the Chicago Manual of Style is an accepted standard.

As for the actual writing, technical points of grammar and usage aside, the only way to learn to write is to read. Not guidebooks, but real books. You don't say what field you are in, but no doubt you have read heavily in your area of specialty. That's a good start, but can, in a way, be crippling because everyone in the field reads what everyone else in the field has written and everyone tends to adopt the same style and say things the same way. 

You need to read a wide range of fiction, and you need to read a wide range of books on science outside your field.   

My early guides to writing were newspaper people, in particular two editors who, in two very different ways, taught me most of what I know about writing while I was still a teenager. One was a salty old man who did not hesitate to throw your copy in the wastebasket and order you to sit down right then and write it over until you got it right. The other had a great deal of patience and would sit for an hour explaining what needed to be changed to make a five hundred word story better, or to improve a picture caption. 

But the final answer is, you learn to write by writing. That is, after all, what a writer is supposed to do. 

Read and write. The only two exercises guaranteed to make you a better writer.


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## Shan (Jul 22, 2010)

Well if that didn't answer Arvind's question..it certainly answered mine! Thanks garza!  I'm a casual writer, and I do read a variety of fiction, but my writing skills are OK for college level material.  I'm not so sure about writing on the fiction side of things for published work.  I am a tad apprehensive about writing with the thoughts that I'm not good enough to post my work on sites like these, but I do enjoy getting the tid bits of advice by reading the forums!  Thanks again for the insight! =)


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## Patrick (Jul 22, 2010)

You can pick up some very good information from guidebooks but writing isn't an exact science, I am afraid. :wink:.

I am only partially joking. While I couldn't really say what percentage of my "writing skill" (if you can call it that), is comprised of those components you mention, or how exactly it's divided up between them, I would say my writing has a fair amount of trial and error to it. The pattern that takes is somewhat like this: error, error, error, error, etc. Talent - as an intangible, who can really say? Reading is obviously a big factor. The more you do, the more you'll push out your boundaries and inform your perspective/s.

Just try your hand at different genres. Poetry, short stories and then possibly the novel if that's something you aspire to write. You practise to refine your voice; for, by way of analogy, you wouldn't want to play a piano that isn't tuned properly because of the discordant sound it makes.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jul 22, 2010)

B
c
a
d


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 22, 2010)

Quick answer, no.

But you can't learn anything without reading the stuff that's written to be read.


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## The Backward OX (Jul 22, 2010)

Shan said:


> I'm not good enough to post my work on sites like these


Neither are most of the people that do, so don't let that worry you.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jul 22, 2010)

I learned how to write well by reading books, both fiction and non-fiction. I've never tried reading guidebooks on writing, but I'm sure you can learn a few tricks from them. Getting critiques has taught me of my mistakes and how not to repeat them. And I guess I was a natural to begin with, and by "natural ability" I assume you mean learning to write well from the things you read without really thinking about it. I was a pretty good writer starting out. Reading and writing were always my best subjects starting from elementary school, and that was probably because I read a lot of books, so my writing ability just 'naturally' flourished from that point.


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## J.R. MacLean (Jul 22, 2010)

For me I'd rank them D B C A. I have to say though that the more I explore writing fiction, the more A gains in importance. Also, the answer to your question may well depend on what kind of writing you wish to do. I have a friend who is a scientist working at writing fiction. He tends to have an analytical approach so his writing can lack emotion. He would, I think, do well to write poetry. I, on the other hand, wrote alot of poetry for a few years and am now finding the need to study structure in order to introduce it into my fiction. 

So yeah, write all you can: journal, poetry, stories, whatever...and read good writers. Honest self-assessment and sources of honest feedback can be hugely helpful. And most of all, make sure you enjoy it.


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## The Backward OX (Jul 22, 2010)

> Getting critiques has taught me of my mistakes and how not to repeat them.


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## Eluixa (Jul 22, 2010)

I have to agree with Garza that reading and writing and writing and reading have been my best tutors and I thank them for any progress I have made. I like the thesaurus too, lol. It is always up when I write.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jul 22, 2010)

Is there a reason why you quoted me?


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## Foxee (Jul 22, 2010)

I love this question! Mostly because you are coming at this from a  scientific standpoint. Here's my experience...I think as a group we'll  vary wildly in how we answer this.


Arvind said:


> I'm a scientist by trade trying to improve my writing skills and I was wondering..
> 
> Was most of your present writerly ability acquired by/through...


 I'll put these in order the best I can.

First there was


> B: Reading published material (fiction, non-fiction, poetry etc.)


Lots of this. Call it escapism. My mother told me over and over 'Nobody's going to pay you to read books.' That's not quite true but I let her think what she wants.
The next step taken from your list would be...


> D: Natural ability


Occasionally writing for fun or for an assignment. Finding that the result seemed to entertain people.


> A: perusing guidebooks on style (and stuff like Stephen King's "On Writing" would fit under here) and other "manuals".
> C: Critique from peers and sheer trial and error.


A mixture of each of these when I realized I wanted to pursue writing to a greater extent.  I've never read 'On Writing'...instead I read about a year or so of Writer's Digest, I read 'Writing from the Soul' by Jerry B. Jenkins, I joined a couple of writing forums and I took an online fiction writing course. (not all in this order)

I can't really rank them in importance...I think they all play a role. And none of them would have done me THE SLIGHTEST GOOD if I hadn't actually buckled down and started writing!


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## garza (Jul 22, 2010)

Ox, do you want to explain, or shall I?

I'm not sure there is any natural ability associated with writing. The best way to learn to write is to read, and I was fortunate in having a family that insisted I learn to read at an early age. 

Arguments in the family were expected to be backed up by documented evidence. If I told one of my parents or grandparents 'you are wrong about that' I would be required to either find sources to support me or admit that I was the one who was wrong. That was strong incentive for making sure I was on firm ground before stating a strong opinion. We were taught to question everything, but always to have a solid basis both for our questions and our opinions.   

I doubt I ever had any natural ability as a writer or much of anything else. It was the environment I grew up in that led me to writing, and when I discovered people would pay me to write, then I gave up all thought of ever finding a job.

All of the above holds for the kinds of writing I have done all my life. Fiction is another matter, and I can see that a natural creative ability would be a major asset. That's something I lack. I am not, never have been, 'artistic' or 'creative'. All I can do is write what I see. For example:

'There was another explosion close off the port side. A ball of red fire rolled up through the trees and set their tops on fire. The boat and the men on it were suddenly lit against the black river behind them. Someone on the bank fired a three-round burst. The reporter fell backward into the well of the boat. The first round had burned his side and the second round got him in the stomach. He landed on the body of the sailor who had brought him coffee. The sailor had taken the third round in the head.'

That makes decent news copy, but a fiction writer could fix it up to make it more dramatic.


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## The Backward OX (Jul 23, 2010)

Dreamworx95 said:


> Is there a reason why you quoted me?


 
*of*

1    /ʌv, ɒv; _unstressed_ əv _or, especially before consonants_, ə/ 

 Show Spelled[uhv, ov; _unstressed_ _uh
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_v _or, especially before consonants_, _uh_] 

 Show IPA 
*–preposition *1. (used to indicate distance or direction from, separation, deprivation, etc.): _within a mile of the church; south of Omaha; to be robbed of one's money. _

2. (used to indicate derivation, origin, or source): _a man of good family; the plays of Shakespeare; a piece of cake. _

3. (used to indicate cause, motive, occasion, or reason): _to die of hunger. _

4. (used to indicate material, component parts, substance, or contents): _a dress of silk; an apartment of three rooms; a book of poems; a package of cheese. _

5. (used to indicate apposition or identity): _Is that idiot of a salesman calling again? _

6. (used to indicate specific identity or a particular item within a category): _the city of Chicago; thoughts of __love__. _

7. (used to indicate possession, connection, or association): _the king of France; the property of the church. _

8. (used to indicate inclusion in a number, class, or whole): _one of us. _

9. (used to indicate the objective relation, the object of the action noted by the preceding noun or the application of a verb or adjective): _the ringing of bells; He writes her of home; I'm tired of working. _

10. (used to indicate reference or respect): _There is talk of peace. _

11. (used to indicate qualities or attributes): _an ambassador of remarkable tact. _

12. (used to indicate a specified time): _They arrived of an evening. _

13. _Chiefly Northern U.S. _before the hour of; until: _twenty minutes of five. _

14. on the part of: _It was very mean of you to laugh at me. _

15. in respect to: _fleet of foot. _

16. set aside for or devoted to: _a minute of __prayer__. _


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jul 23, 2010)

Is there a reason why you didn't say that in the first place?

And thanks. Now I know not to repeat it.


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## garza (Jul 23, 2010)

Fowler devotes three pages to 'of'.
Fowler's Modern English Usage, third edition, R.W. Burchfield ed., Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1996, pp. 541-544.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 23, 2010)

Actually the use of "of" in that sentence is not incorrrect.  A little unusual, maybe even archaic, but hardly an error.

Phrases like "to taste of the vine"   to "to drink of the wisdom" abound in literature.


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## vangoghsear (Jul 23, 2010)

I was once asked to serve on a committee to write a 'begging' letter for a library.  When I got to the meeting, I realized I'd forgotten something and had to rush home for it.  When I got back, they had begun to write the letter.  Their first line said something to the effect of:  "As you already know, the ______ library is one of the finest in the county..." and they were gong on from there.  I read that opening and several points of bad writing jumped out at me.  The spelling was fine, the grammar was fine, the words chosen were fine, but what it said had severe problems for what it was.  I recognized all of these problems from having read books on writing better.

#1.  Don't begin a letter with a statement of fact that may be false.  Let's face it, they may not "already know..."

#2.  Similar to #1, the next statement, the ______ library is one of the finest in the county...," is opinion stated as fact and as such is debatable.  If you include facts they should be quantifiable and substantiated.

#3.  It's boring.  The first statement tells us nothing and what it does say may be wrong, the next statement is conjecture and still tells us nothing.  This opening could easily make a reader say, "That's BS!  __________ is a much better library!"  So much for getting money from them.

#4.  You're opening is the most important part of the letter.  You need people to continue reading.


My point is, these people were avid readers (library board members for God's sake), some of them even writers, yet what they came up with was laden with problems that could have been avoided by reading a book or two on improving their writing.


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 23, 2010)

Not so sure about that.  I don't think these are things that get discussed in writing books very much.  

More in the area of common sense.  And, basically,  taste.  One way to look at it is just a collection of cliched phrases applied without much thought or experience.  And I don't think a book helps overcome being dumb and inexperienced.


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## vangoghsear (Jul 23, 2010)

I had read a book (or magazine article, can't remember now) that stated each of those points that I applied to that letter.  I agree it should have been common sense, but a committee of about 6 fairly intelligent individuals had bought into it before I got back.

Those books are basically stating common sense points, but sometimes it's good to read them written out, helps to recognize them when they come along.

And you're right, that letter was cliched as well.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jul 23, 2010)

Great, you guys have got me looking at every 'of' in your sentences. I don't think I'll ever be able to escape that preposition now.


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## vangoghsear (Jul 23, 2010)

Dreamworx95 said:


> Great, you guys have got me looking at every 'of' in your sentences. I don't think I'll ever be able to escape that preposition now.


 Darn we forgot to include Public Chastisement as a method for improving writing. :tongue:


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jul 23, 2010)

I had a nightmare last night about a giant "of" chasing me.


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## caelum (Jul 23, 2010)

haha, your use of of looks fine to me, Dream.  I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm not, haha. Just poking fun at myself. To be honest I don't see what was wrong with my use of of either. But apparently it looked weird to other people.


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## Patrick (Jul 23, 2010)

Ox is just anal-retentive. :lone:


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## JosephB (Jul 23, 2010)

Dreamworx95 said:


> I had a nightmare last night about a giant "of" chasing me.


 
Ha ha. Don't worry about it. A few weeks ago, a client thanked me for something, and I replied -- 

"Your welcome."

I noticed it just as I moused up on the send button. I'm still having nightmares about it.


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## Patrick (Jul 23, 2010)

JosephB said:


> A few weeks ago, I client thanked me for something, and I replied



That sounds like an interesting conversation.


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## JosephB (Jul 23, 2010)

It's only interesting if no one ever thanks you for anything.

EDIT: Oh, I see. I made another boo boo. Ha ha.


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