# Roman empire



## Frivle Dilby (Jun 4, 2011)

The story I'm writing takes place about the year 400AD. And since it is historical it presents a lot of problems. Such as technology, current events, even the names of cities. You would be surprised how hard it is to find out when a city was first established or what it's original name was. Was the coliseum being used, or had it already fallen into disrepair? Had all of the pagan temples been converted yet? What major structures were even built? I'm especially interested in the old Vatican area. I know Old St. Peter's Basilica had just been completed, but other than that I'm clueless. The papal residency was in a mansion in another part of Rome, but I don't know the geography. As you can see I feel very ill equipped to actually write about this, so anything will help.


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## alanmt (Jun 4, 2011)

I always start with "The Ancient City" by Connelly and Dodge. It is a great basic text with lots of cool illustrations, and covers a lot of the basics of ancient roman (and athenian) life. Easy to read, and very interesting.

"Ancient Rome" by Literati and Bourbon is also good, but a bit less accessible.


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## Frivle Dilby (Jun 4, 2011)

Thanks, just reserved it at the library. =)


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## Olly Buckle (Jun 4, 2011)

You have picked a turbulent time. the German tribes crossed the Rhine in about 400, or maybe just after, and stayed because of the lack of unity in the empire as different candidates for Emperor pulled back the legions and fought it out in Italy. This really is the tail end for Rome in the West, the last western Emperor's rule collapsed finally in about 470 something, though of course they flourished and went on another thousand years nearly in the East. If you want classical Roman it might pay you to go back a bit, The Republic collapsed in the first century BC, once Caesar had been assassinated and Octavian Augustus had dealt with the rebels and established himself there was a fairly long period of stability as far as most people went, though there were some pretty awful Emperors leading up to Claudius.

Tom Holland, Forum, is good readable history.
Robert Graves, I Claudius and Claudius the God, are historical fiction, but reasonably accurate historically and a fun read.


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## ppsage (Jun 4, 2011)

_Empires of trust : how Rome built--and America is building--a new world_ / Thomas F. Madden

This is actually a work of political philosophy and in its histriosity ostensibly only to do with the republic and Madden is always a sort of a nut case patriot but I found this provided a splendid overview of Roman institutional development in an easy to read and digest form. Madden is empathetically pro-Roman, which is a rare position and, no matter my opinion, a fairly accomplished historian. I think exposure to his point of view could only deepen historical fiction of the period.

Here is its syndetics link. The reviewer didn't agree, but he's one who calls Romans haughty. pp


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## Frivle Dilby (Jun 4, 2011)

I think the Vandals sacked Rome in about 401... Is that right? Were they the German tribe you're talking about? I think the emperor was Honorius, but was Ceasar a real position at that point, especially in the west? Not to mention he was very young, so who was in control? Ugh, so confusing. And as a side note, this is the setting for my story, but it has more to do with the Catholic church than the Roman empire. Which is another confusing topic in itself.


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## C.M. Aaron (Jun 4, 2011)

I have researched and written in this period, give or take a century or two. I find Wikipedia usually has good info. You can look up most cities by name and see their history including their pre-Roman, Roman, and post-Roman names.  It's fast and convenient for a quick fact check.

What exactly are you writing about church-wise? I've researched some of the 4th century heresies like Arianism and Donatism.


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## Frivle Dilby (Jun 5, 2011)

Mostly I'm just incorporating the rise of Christianity and downfall of paganism, but info like that would be great to give the world depth. In the story the main characters steal something from the church and are hunted because of it. I'm not sure if that is helpful. I really don't know specifics on this subject. Thanks for the help. =)


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## C.M. Aaron (Jun 5, 2011)

The rise of the church in the 4th and 5th centuries had less to do with the strength of the Christian message (which is pretty strong) and more to do with the political astuteness of the church leadership (which was even stronger). By the year 400, a partnership had emerged between the late Roman state and the church. Emperors were basing their authority on a claim of being anointed by God. The church was receiving practical support from the state. For instance, the state was using its police power to suppress paganism. The church received tax exemption and the right of sanctuary. Bishops had the right to adjudicate criminal trials in certain situations. There were compulsory occupation laws that forced the sons of soldiers to also become soldiers. One of the few exemptions was if the son became a priest or a monk. This made it easier for the church to recruit new clergymen. So you had a lot of people becoming clergy for the wrong reasons. The emperors had put the word out that anyone wanting a military or civil service career had better be a Christian because pagans would not be promoted. So a lot of people converted out of careerism rather than conviction.

You will have a lot of potential to explore church corruption. Whenever the church and state intermingle, the church inevitably becomes corrupted by the political process.


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## Frivle Dilby (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks, reading what you have to say gets me really fired up to write, but I have to go to church. (Is it sacrilege if I say "speak of the devil"?) =)


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## Cambyses (Jun 11, 2011)

Try the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon.  The three-volume, 18th century epic is a work that all modern works on the Roman Empire draw from.  It should be available at most libraries.  I think volume three covers the time period you are looking for.

Some quick facts you might be interested in:
-By this time, Rome was a shadow of its former self.  The true jewel of the empire had moved east, to Constantinople.  
-In around 400AD and continually afterwards (with a brief reprieve under one good emperor in the middle of the 5th century whose name I forgot), Romans cannibalized stone from the great old buildings for various uses.  This process, which continued until the renaissance, is why the Colosseum looks like it is only half-built.
-In 380, Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the sole religion in the empire.  I believe that pagans were still allowed to be senators well into the 5th century, indicated that some pagan temples must have stayed open, though where and how long depends on the location.  It is important to note that the barbarian invaders were mostly Arian Christians, not pagans.
-The Huns (who were driven west by the Chinese decades before descending on Rome and the Gupta in India) migrated into Europe in the late 4th century.  They displaced the native Germanic tribes, who flooded into Roman borders.  Rome, at this point weakened by epidemics, internal strife, economic hardship, and wars with Persia, could not repel the Germans and were forced to settle them in various parts of the empire.  This map is helpful in visualizing the movements.  Attila the Hun was around in the mid 5th century, you could say his campaigns and those of other barbarians such as the Vandals (who seized wealthy North Africa as their own province) were the straws that broke the back of the Western Empire.  Here is a map of Europe in 400ad 
-Remember that while the West fell in 476 (officially), the Eastern Roman Empire survived until 1453


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## Frivle Dilby (Jun 11, 2011)

I don't think your map link made it through, but the information was very helpful. I was wondering when they cannibalized their buildings.


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