# Crazy stuff in your part of the world



## indianroads (Aug 14, 2022)

Pronouns are a big deal here in Colorado, and of course kids are taking it to an extreme that's kinda funny.
At a local school a 4th grader objected when his teacher did not use his preferred pronoun... which, as it turned out was 'Banana-Cat'. That was his pronoun and so the teacher had to use it due to school policy. Other kids took it up, and soon the classroom was full of kids meaowing like cats and and barking like dogs.


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## JBF (Aug 14, 2022)

Meth, weed, and other low-rent crime.  The occasional collapsing of the elderly.  The odd fire.

But mostly meth and weed.


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## indianroads (Aug 14, 2022)

Fentanyl here - it's killing people. Addict parents bring it home and their kids get into it and die. Teenagers sell it at High (secondary) Schools, kids are dying there too.


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## Sinister (Aug 18, 2022)

You guys are playing with chump change, let's raise the ante.

There's a natural formation called the Garden of the Gods' Wilderness.  Basically, some sandstone hoodoos that have been worn into blueish-gray sphere outcroppings.  They're high though.  They're at the edge of a cliff.  But the hoodoos are massive and flat and so close together.  At some points they're only separated by one or two feet.  But between those couple of feet is an 80+ foot drop.

My parents are both medical workers and nearly every couple of months someone falls to their death.  One happened just last month, matter of fact.  Sometimes it's a child.  Sometimes it's a teen who thinks they can fly.  It's like there is some sort of unseen thing whispering in their ears to act like idiots at the top of a cliff.  Even after all this death, and I mean the count is staggering to the point of disbelief, fences or signs are rare to nonexistent.

Here's a picture of what we're talking about.


-Sin


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## indianroads (Aug 19, 2022)

Sinister said:


> You guys are playing with chump change, let's raise the ante.
> 
> There's a natural formation called the Garden of the Gods' Wilderness.  Basically, some sandstone hoodoos that have been worn into blueish-gray sphere outcroppings.  They're high though.  They're at the edge of a cliff.  But the hoodoos are massive and flat and so close together.  At some points they're only separated by one or two feet.  But between those couple of feet is an 80+ foot drop.
> 
> ...


Looks like I live about 20 miles north of you.


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## Sinister (Aug 19, 2022)

Well, not strictly from or in Illinois, but my parents work close enough to the park to get life-flights of the ones that survive the fall or aren't DoA.  It's a nice drive west of me.  But I do frequent the park when I'm out that way.  It's a nice spot to stop and think.  Drink in the views and take a few photos.  But Saline and Gallatin counties are full of old haunts of mine.  Plus I have the odd relative out that way.

-Sin


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## Joker (Aug 19, 2022)

Worst drivers in the goddamn country (except for all the other places).


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## indianroads (Aug 19, 2022)

The worst I’ve experienced were in the Boston/ Chelmsford area in the USA.


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## Taylor (Aug 19, 2022)

Tradespeople holding home builders to ransom, and building materials quadrupled. But still, it's not slowing development.  Lots of money comes in from countries that place less value on a human life.


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## Joker (Aug 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> The worst I’ve experienced were in the Boston/ Chelmsford area in the USA.



The Orlando area isn't so bad once you're out of the city proper and first ring of suburbs. But around there...


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## indianroads (Aug 20, 2022)

Taylor said:


> Trades people holding home builders to ransom, and building materials quadrupling. But still it's not slowing development.  Lots of dirty money coming in from countries that place less value on a human life.


We’re getting that here too. We have a water shortage but builders come in, toss money at city counsels and permission to build new neighborhoods.

Food items are becoming scarce and when we ask why, everyone points fingers at everyone else.


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## Taylor (Aug 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Food items are becoming scarce and when we ask why, everyone points fingers at everyone else.



That's scary! I heard about the baby formula.  What else?


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## indianroads (Aug 20, 2022)

Taylor said:


> That's scary! I heard about the baby formula.  What else?


Pretty much everything - but oddly, not all at once (yet) - cereal, milk, canned soup, coffee (I eat like a bachelor), even paper towels and such things. Other items: lumber, nails, appliances, motor oil... and of course gasoline is twice the price it used to be. Oh, and we can't get bags to carry our groceries anymore.

Movie theaters are closing - the owners are blaming the lack of movies that the public wants to see.

Beyond that we have an over abundance of Fentanyl (Rainbow Fentanyl is the latest infestation) and young people are dying.


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## C.K.Johnson (Aug 20, 2022)

Sinister said:


> You guys are playing with chump change, let's raise the ante.
> 
> There's a natural formation called the Garden of the Gods' Wilderness.  Basically, some sandstone hoodoos that have been worn into blueish-gray sphere outcroppings.  They're high though.  They're at the edge of a cliff.  But the hoodoos are massive and flat and so close together.  At some points they're only separated by one or two feet.  But between those couple of feet is an 80+ foot drop.
> 
> ...


Garden of the Gods is my background pic. My son lives in Denver.


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## Sinister (Aug 20, 2022)

Never seen the one in Colorado.  This one(Illinois) isn't probably as pretty or as striking.  It's not easy to see, you have to hike through the woods to find it.  It's kind of hidden.  _shrugs_  For some reason it has the same name.  I guess cause they're both hoodoos and eroded plateaus(Don't quote me on that.  I'm no geologist.  That's my sister's line).  I think they realized it was confusing, cause they changed the Illinois' park's name from "Garden of the Gods" to "Garden of the Gods Wilderness".

But in either one you can enjoy a nice edible gummy and snap photos of the beautiful sunset.  I know that's true of the Illinois one from personal experience.

-Sin


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## Taylor (Aug 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Pretty much everything - but oddly, not all at once (yet) - cereal, milk, canned soup, coffee (I eat like a bachelor), even paper towels and such things. Other items: lumber, nails, appliances, motor oil... and of course gasoline is twice the price it used to be. Oh, and we can't get bags to carry our groceries anymore.
> 
> Movie theaters are closing - the owners are blaming the lack of movies that the public wants to see.
> 
> Beyond that we have an over abundance of Fentanyl (Rainbow Fentanyl is the latest infestation) and young people are dying.


I had no idea that was still happening! The only time we had a shortage was just before the first lockdown in 2020, and only because people were stockpiling out of fear.  I wonder if that is what's causing it. 

It doesn't surprise me about the movie theatres.  There is so much availability for movies online.  Why sit there for two hours and risk getting Covid?

Fentanyl is a threat here as well.  Six years ago, they increased the property tax to raise $3.5 million annually to fight the opioid crisis.  the money goes to drug counseling, emergency services, and a special police force.  It seems to have helped, but not enough.   What else can you do?


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## TL Murphy (Aug 20, 2022)

We have base jumpers here in squirrel suits. They fall out of the sky and shred themselves in the canopy. Looks like spaghetti.


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## C.K.Johnson (Aug 20, 2022)

Sinister said:


> Never seen the one in Colorado.  This one(Illinois) isn't probably as pretty or as striking.  It's not easy to see, you have to hike through the woods to find it.  It's kind of hidden.  _shrugs_  For some reason it has the same name.  I guess cause they're both hoodoos and eroded plateaus(Don't quote me on that.  I'm no geologist.  That's my sister's line).  I think they realized it was confusing, cause they changed the Illinois' park's name from "Garden of the Gods" to "Garden of the Gods Wilderness".
> 
> But in either one you can enjoy a nice edible gummy and snap photos of the beautiful sunset.  I know that's true of the Illinois one from personal experience.
> 
> -Sin


I see your hoodoos are very different from the Garden of the Gods spikes in Colorado. Same color though.


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## bdcharles (Aug 20, 2022)

Mostly petty crime and drunkenness here … nothing too untoward


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## indianroads (Aug 20, 2022)

Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs, Colorado.


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## indianroads (Aug 20, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I had no idea that was still happening! The only time we had a shortage was just before the first lockdown in 2020, and only because people were stockpiling out of fear.  I wonder if that is what's causing it.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me about the movie theatres.  There is so much availability for movies online.  Why sit there for two hours and risk getting Covid?
> 
> Fentanyl is a threat here as well.  Six years ago, they increased the property to raise $3.5 million annually to fight the opioid crisis.  the money goes to drug counseling, emergency services, and a special police force.  It seems to have helped, but not enough.   What else can you do?


Most comes across our open southern border - yes, if we closed that the smugglers would find another way, but the border is the easiest way in for them... shouldn't we at least make it difficult to bring in?
Fentanyl can be disguised and inserted into a seemingly innocuous drug, so the kids who take it don't really know what they're getting.
As someone that sold heroin on the streets as a kid, I'll say that making something illegal or even increasing the penalty for selling it won't make a difference. Although education is a weak deterrent, I don't see another way to approach the problem. The issue with education though is that what's taught is so often a lie - remember 'Reefer Madness'? According to that film, just one toke from a marijuana joint would make you kill your parents. That's the cost of government sponsored lies. Once trust is violated, it's gone forever. So, unfortunately, I don't see a solution.


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## TL Murphy (Aug 20, 2022)

Make it all legal and regulate it.  Removes the criminal element and gives a measure of control over the substance.  Use the taxes for addiction rehabilitation.


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## VRanger (Aug 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Most comes across our open southern border - yes, if we closed that the smugglers would find another way, but the border is the easiest way in for them... shouldn't we at least make it difficult to bring in?
> Fentanyl can be disguised and inserted into a seemingly innocuous drug, so the kids who take it don't really know what they're getting.
> As someone that sold heroin on the streets as a kid, I'll say that making something illegal or even increasing the penalty for selling it won't make a difference. Although education is a weak deterrent, I don't see another way to approach the problem. The issue with education though is that what's taught is so often a lie - remember 'Reefer Madness'? According to that film, just one toke from a marijuana joint would make you kill your parents. That's the cost of government sponsored lies. Once trust is violated, it's gone forever. So, unfortunately, I don't see a solution.


Fentanyl could be crippled at the source. It's popular with cartels now because it's completely synthetic ... you don't need a poppy crop for the raw materials. The cartels' main source of the chemicals to manufacture it is ... guess where ... China.

Of course, it's our idiot drug addicts who keep them ALL in business. Not only do they ruin their own lives, they finance every murder (and other crime) committed by the cartels. Opiate deaths are closing in on 50K per year, which dwarfs gun deaths, and you can attribute a significant number of gun deaths to drug related incidents, too. Yet gun control bluster is big politics, but the same people who push that are quite happy to be out of control of the border. However, we COULD make a difference with border control, and we will NEVER get guns out of the hands of the people who cause the majority of gun deaths. That ship sailed a LONG time ago. As an example, we had a so-called 'assault weapons ban' for ten years. Congress let it expire. Why? It didn't decrease gun deaths one iota. But of course, now the same failed policy is big talk again. They'll pass it again and brag about it, and again, it won't do a bit of good.

So on drugs, no you can't control the problem chasing addicts or dealers, but you could make a difference going after manufacture.


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## S J Ward (Aug 20, 2022)

We leave our doors permantly unlocked. The postman knows to bring any deliveries into the house. Whenever you drive by someone, they wave a greeting; even the youngsters. If someone does something wrong, reparation is made by the family until the crime is forgiven.
It's a crazy way to live!


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## indianroads (Aug 20, 2022)

S J Ward said:


> We leave our doors permantly unlocked. The postman knows to bring any deliveries into the house. Whenever you drive by someone, they wave a greeting; even the youngsters. If someone does something wrong, reparation is made by the family until the crime is forgiven.
> It's a crazy way to live!


When I went to Ireland with my wife, she was the designated 'waver'. People see a car heading down the road, and they wave whether they know you or not. That sort of environment can only occur (in my opinion) in uncrowded and somewhat remote areas. When people are living practically on top of each other, everyone is pissed off at everyone else.


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## S J Ward (Aug 20, 2022)

Finding two dozen scallops on your doorstep in the morning, it probably means one of the local lads has been swearing in the local shop, where my daughter works. He gets barred from the shop, reparation is made by either him or the family  to everyone affected. and everything starts again on an even keel.
I live in a village with two churches, no pubs, one shop and 370 inhabitants stretching over 3 distinct communities.
It's fair crowded here!


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## TL Murphy (Aug 20, 2022)

S J Ward said:


> We leave our doors permantly unlocked. The postman knows to bring any deliveries into the house. Whenever you drive by someone, they wave a greeting; even the youngsters. If someone does something wrong, reparation is made by the family until the crime is forgiven.
> It's a crazy way to live!


When we moved to Canmore in 1990 there was a population of 2500. It had become nearly a ghost town after the last coal mine closed in 1979 and was down to 800 residents in the early 80s. Then the winter olympics came to Calgary in 1988 and the Nordic Centre was built in Canmore, a world class facility.  The town started to boom.  For ten years, from 1990 to 2000 it was the fastest growing community in Canada every single year. The permanent population finally levelled off at around 15,000, which it still is.  But half the houses in town now are second homes.  For 20 years, the biggest industry in Canmore was building and servicing houses that are empty 10 months of the year. During the summer the population doubles,  and on holiday weekends it’s 40 to 50,000. It’s impossible to drive across town. We walk. Or we cross the river and go out the back way.  Since covid, the town swells every weekend with day trippers from the city. Whole families arrive like an army and occupy the river banks and all the parks.  I don’t go downtown at all on the weekend. We never locked our doors until about ten years ago. Now it’s a different world.


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## indianroads (Aug 20, 2022)

I grew up in La Honda California - it's a tiny town in the Santa Cruz mountains about 50 miles south of San Francisco. Local legend has it that the town was established by members of the James Gang of outlaws - led of course by Jesse James. The town has a population of about 700, it's been that way forever because the roads in and out are challenging (lots of turns through the mountains). It's a beautiful area within a Redwood forest. My secondary school class had 8 kids in it. At high school, they combined three towns, La Honda, Loma Mar, and Pescadero - there were 15 in my graduating class.

After my wife and I were married, we went up and spent the night at my old house. Nothing had changed... nothing ever does up there. The house was 2 miles from our nearest neighbor, and of course there are no street lights. Under the redwood tree canopy it gets DARK at night... dark as in, you're as good as blind. So that night with my 'city girl' wife, I was laying down, enjoying the silence when the bed suddenly shook. I thought she was having trouble getting comfortable, but the shaking happened again and again.
"What are you doing?" I asked.
"I can't see my hand," she replied.
She had been laying there, waving her hand before her eyes.
Anyway, the next morning she said she couldn't sleep.
Why?
Because it was too dark and too quiet.
City people are crazy.


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## Joker (Aug 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I grew up in La Honda California - it's a tiny town in the Santa Cruz mountains about 50 miles south of San Francisco. Local legend has it that the town was established by members of the James Gang of outlaws - led of course by Jesse James. The town has a population of about 700, it's been that way forever because the roads in and out are challenging (lots of turns through the mountains). It's a beautiful area within a Redwood forest. My secondary school class had 8 kids in it. At high school, they combined three towns, La Honda, Loma Mar, and Pescadero - there were 15 in my graduating class.
> 
> After my wife and I were married, we went up and spent the night at my old house. Nothing had changed... nothing ever does up there. The house was 2 miles from our nearest neighbor, and of course there are no street lights. Under the redwood tree canopy it gets DARK at night... dark as in, you're as good as blind. So that night with my 'city girl' wife, I was laying down, enjoying the silence when the bed suddenly shook. I thought she was having trouble getting comfortable, but the shaking happened again and again.
> "What are you doing?" I asked.
> ...



To be fair, I need white noise to sleep. But that's cause I gots tinnitus.


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## Joker (Aug 20, 2022)

EDIT: Stupid lag caused a double post.


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## indianroads (Aug 20, 2022)

Joker said:


> To be fair, I need white noise to sleep. But that's cause I gots tinnitus.


Yeah, I have tinnitus too. Doc says is it’s from too many years riding bikes with straight pipes.


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## Theglasshouse (Aug 20, 2022)

Lack of psychiatrists that are unqualified to handle certain conditions such as schizoaffective disorder or worse. Only one is an addiction specialist (who undergoes evaluation by the united states where he was accredited). The qualifications needed to be one in the united states are enormous. You wonder why such doctors don't go to my own country. Because they could be directors of hospitals, university departments, and so forth. There's a lack of information out there. The talent goes elsewhere usually. Someone putting a person under the influence of drugs should be punished for 20 years if it were me. The drugs people take can’t be cured by professionals. I heard if you take something worse than cocaine, as in more addictive, there’s nothing you can probably do in terms of treatment to fight it. We need to pity those poor folks since there is nothing else we can do in those cases. This is why they should never legalize drugs.


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## C.K.Johnson (Aug 20, 2022)

There’s about a hundred wineries within a 10 mile radius.
I drink beer.


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## Joker (Aug 21, 2022)

Theglasshouse said:


> Lack of psychiatrists that are unqualified to handle certain conditions such as schizoaffective disorder or worse. Only one is an addiction specialist (who undergoes evaluation by the united states where he was accredited). The qualifications needed to be one in the united states are enormous. You wonder why such doctors don't go to my own country. Because they could be directors of hospitals, university departments, and so forth. There's a lack of information out there. The talent goes elsewhere usually. Someone putting a person under the influence of drugs should be punished for 20 years if it were me. The drugs people take can’t be cured by professionals. I heard if you take something worse than cocaine, as in more addictive, there’s nothing you can probably do in terms of treatment to fight it. We need to pity those poor folks since there is nothing else we can do in those cases. This is why they should never legalize drugs.



My rule of thumb is, if a drug basically turns people into a violent zombie irreversibly (not like alcohol which is temporary and has different effects on different people), it needs to be banned for public safety.

I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist.


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## Joker (Aug 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Yeah, I have tinnitus too. Doc says is it’s from too many years riding bikes with straight pipes.



Driving a convertible that revs to 8300 RPM while blasting metal music probably isn't helping. Oh well, I'm still young-ish, might as well enjoy it while I can.


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## TL Murphy (Aug 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> My rule of thumb is, if a drug basically turns people into a violent zombie irreversibly (not like alcohol which is temporary and has different effects on different people), it needs to be banned for public safety.
> 
> I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist.


Banning anything makes it more desirable and profitable for criminals. Legalizing it takes the mystique out and allows society a measure of control. You can’t control an illegal substance.  You have more control if it’s legal since the criminal element loses interest.


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## Joker (Aug 21, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> Banning anything makes it more desirable and profitable for criminals. Legalizing it takes the mystique out and allows society a measure of control. You can’t control an illegal substance.  You have more control if it’s legal since the criminal element loses interest.



So... we should legalize murder to control it better?


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## indianroads (Aug 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> So... we should legalize murder to control it better?


I’ll start making my list.


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## RGS (Aug 21, 2022)

Taylor said:


> Fentanyl is a threat here as well.  Six years ago, they increased the property to raise $3.5 million annually to fight the opioid crisis.  the money goes to drug counseling, emergency services, and a special police force.  It seems to have helped, but not enough.   What else can you do?


Funny thing about that here in the USA. It seems like every time the government declares "war" on something, we always wind up with more of that exact same thing. The "War on Drugs," the "War on Poverty," the "War on Crime," etc...


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## RGS (Aug 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> After my wife and I were married, we went up and spent the night at my old house. Nothing had changed... nothing ever does up there. The house was 2 miles from our nearest neighbor, and of course there are no street lights. Under the redwood tree canopy it gets DARK at night... dark as in, you're as good as blind. So that night with my 'city girl' wife, I was laying down, enjoying the silence when the bed suddenly shook. I thought she was having trouble getting comfortable, but the shaking happened again and again.
> "What are you doing?" I asked.
> "I can't see my hand," she replied.
> She had been laying there, waving her hand before her eyes.
> ...


I can relate. I grew up in a very rural part of Alabama. Most churches had night lights on and most people left a porch light on at their house. But if you were out of sight of either, you literally couldn't see your hand.

I'll never forget the time we went down to visit my parents when our oldest son was about two years old. Once we got past Tuscaloosa and out in the country, we turned onto this less populated road. My son suddenly said, "I'm scared." He had never seen REAL darkness at night.


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## C.K.Johnson (Aug 21, 2022)

RGS said:


> Funny thing about that here in the USA. It seems like every time the government declares "war" on something, we always wind up with more of that exact same thing. The "War on Drugs," the "War on Poverty," the "War on Crime," etc...


Any excuse for more guns  #Murica


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## indianroads (Aug 21, 2022)

RGS said:


> Funny thing about that here in the USA. It seems like every time the government declares "war" on something, we always wind up with more of that exact same thing. The "War on Drugs," the "War on Poverty," the "War on Crime," etc...


At times it seems that the US government is waging war on us all.


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## RGS (Aug 21, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> Any excuse for more guns  #Murica


Without getting political, or as much as I can avoid it, guns have never been the problem and still aren't. The breakdown of society, among other things, is the problem.

When I was in high school, a kid could pull up to the school with a 12-gauge shotgun or a 30-06 rifle on the gun rack in his pickup, and no one gave it a second thought. We had also never heard of a school shooting.


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## RGS (Aug 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> At times it seems that the US government is waging war on us all.


Ah, so you've noticed that, too...


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## indianroads (Aug 21, 2022)

RGS said:


> Ah, so you've noticed that, too...


Kinda hard to miss.


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## Sinister (Aug 21, 2022)

Apparently, Kentucky has a werewolf problem?  I was unaware, but I'm woke to this shit now.


It's funny.  I went camping to LBL for a week every year for twenty-two years and lived in Kentucky all my life.  This is the first I've heard of it?  They're even making a movie, apparently?  But, I mean, it makes total sense.  I mean, Pennsylvania had that vampire scare back in the 80s.  And California with those giant snails...

-Sin


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## Joker (Aug 21, 2022)

RGS said:


> Without getting political, or as much as I can avoid it, guns have never been the problem and still aren't. The breakdown of society, among other things, is the problem.
> 
> When I was in high school, a kid could pull up to the school with a 12-gauge shotgun or a 30-06 rifle on the gun rack in his pickup, and no one gave it a second thought. We had also never heard of a school shooting.



Funny how school shootings have increased dramatically while violent crime (until recently) had decreased. 

Personally, I think it's the internet turning it into a goddamn video game with a high score. Making these guys instantly (in)famous.


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## indianroads (Aug 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> Funny how school shootings have increased dramatically while violent crime (until recently) had decreased.
> 
> Personally, I think it's the internet turning it into a goddamn video game with a high score. Making these guys instantly (in)famous.


My controversial opinion is that violent video games desensitize players, making the jump from the real world to a realm where it's ok to shoot people an easier leap. Most people don't agree with me though. Still - I never heard of a school or theater or shopping mall mass shooting until those sorts of games became a pervasive part of the youth culture. As is said though, correlation does not prove causation.


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## Joker (Aug 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> My controversial opinion is that violent video games desensitize players, making the jump from the real world to a realm where it's ok to shoot people an easier leap. Most people don't agree with me though. Still - I never heard of a school or theater or shopping mall mass shooting until those sorts of games became a pervasive part of the youth culture. As is said though, correlation does not prove causation.



Oh please, your generation grew up on war movies and playing cowboys and Indians. Young men have _always _channeled their aggression out through recreation. That's not new. Instant communication is.


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## Sinister (Aug 21, 2022)

People who go apeshit, would go apeshit if all they had was A.A. Milne's Winnie the Pooh series and a sharpened pencil.  Video games?  Violent movies?  Maybe even books with violent descriptions or Pablo Picasso's "Guernica?"  Or maybe it's because they picked up a cap pistol when they were ten and now can get an AR?  Think what you want.

I doubt if anyone's "Interesting conclusions", "Internet-assembled philosophy", "folksy wisdom" or "hot take." is going to be noticed by a congressman and put into practice and save the children while good ole boys drink whisky and rye and right the wrongs of morally destitute America.  You want a theory?  How about the fact that ninety percent of children are raised by underpaid and under-interested teachers and other children.

-Sin


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 21, 2022)

Coworker murdered a neighbor last weekend. Another former coworker got sentenced to over 70 years in prison for kidnapping and sexual assault. Now we’ve got another uptick in Covid cases at work. It’s been a fun f$&king month at my job place! 

A.C.


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## Sinister (Aug 21, 2022)

Didn't mean to go off like that.  >>;  I'm more composed usually, but I'm cooking, drinking and listening to music.  Loosens the tongue, y'know.  We've learned one thing today and that is...people are going crazy and that is a generally undesirable state of affairs.  Anyone want a slice of a Strawberry/Lemon crostata?

-Sin


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## RGS (Aug 21, 2022)

I think it's a mixture. As @indianroads stated, the video games can serve to desensitize kids to violence and death. But now let's add the double whammy: fatherless homes.

There was a time when kids were taught to respect others. A kid knew that if he bullied another kid in school, or cheated on an exam, or shoplifted, or whatever, dad was going to lay that belt across his ass when he got home, and by the time he was done, that kid had usually sworn off that offending behavior for good. 

But now, there's an entire generation (or maybe two by now) raised on the premise that it's all about "me, me, me" and forget that other people have rights and feelings. It allows a rudderless young man to walk into a school with the weapon(s) of his choice, and take out his grudge against society, or his family, or the girl who rejected him, or fill in the blank.

Now let's add in the general tone of today's society, as fueled by the media. It's "cool" now to disrespect women, or the teacher, or the cop, or anyone who stands in the way of a kid doing whatever he feels like doing. 

Seriously, I think if the mainstream media could be totally shut down, this world would be better off. Or an even better solution would be to make it so that they can only report the news objectively and not mix their opinions and commentary into it. 

Above all, stop glorifying people who commit heinous crimes, as @Joker implied. I don't care about the dirtbag's early life, his friends, or what allegedly "caused" him to do what he did. Remove his name forever and that will remove at least a tiny slice of the motivation for others to do such acts.


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## Sinister (Aug 21, 2022)

I mean, I can't claim to not be a victim of the same generational undercurrent surging against the breaches.  It's like being dragged by the pull of a tidal wave.  You can feel the murmurational tug of a change in the mental landscape.  It's surpassed my generation and the ripple is spreading.  I doubt the high-water mark has even been reached.  All I know is I stay here.  I'm crazy.  There's paperwork to that effect, so it must be true.  But my crazy never leaves the boundaries of this hill and doesn't like guns, loud sounds or raised-voices.  It's a gentle crazy that inspires pity, adoration and returns them to sender.  So once again, does anyone want any fu$king strawberry crostata?

-Sin


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 21, 2022)

I do think the rise in mass shootings is tied to the availability of personal assault weapons. But that's not all that's going on. It's a cocktail of colliding issues. Other countries have guns; mind you, there are more privately owned guns in the U.S. than in all of the militaries in the world combined. But that's only one component. Stir in "toxic masculitinty" as historically cultivated in a culture that values radical individualism as the ultimate form of character. Add to that the erosion of the middle class and the ultimate subjugation of the working class to increasingly depersonalized corporations. Stir in the breakdown of the public education system and radical collapse of literacy in the U.S., exacerbated by a pandemic of alienation cultivated through addiction to social media, and you have a cultural cluster bomb. Basically, mass shootings are a form of expression perpetrated by voiceless white males who feel disenfranchised from the mythical American Dream.


----------



## Joker (Aug 21, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> I do think the rise in mass shootings is tied to the availability of personal assault weapons. But that's not all that's going on. It's a cocktail of colliding issues. Other countries have guns; mind you, there are more privately owned guns in the U.S. than in all of the militaries in the world combined. But that's only one component. Stir in "toxic masculitinty" as historically cultivated in a culture that values radical individualism as the ultimate form of character. Add to that the erosion of the middle class and the ultimate subjugation of the working class to increasingly depersonalized corporations. Stir in the breakdown of the public education system and radical decrease of literacy in the U.S., exacerbated by a pandemic of alienation cultivated through addiction to social media, and you have a cultural cluster bomb. Basically, mass shootings are a form of expression perpetrated by voiceless white males who feel disenfranchised from the mythical American Dream.



You lost me at "personal assault weapon"


----------



## indianroads (Aug 21, 2022)

However you consider the cause, people are giving themselves permission to harm others. The WHY of it is probably unique to each individual.


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> You lost me at "personal assault weapon"


Joker, I don’t take anything you say seriously.  I assume that’s the way you want it.


----------



## Joker (Aug 21, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> Joker, I don’t take anything you say seriously.  I assume that’s the way you want it.



Took it seriously enough to write this reply


----------



## Taylor (Aug 21, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> Basically, mass shootings are a form of expression perpetrated by voiceless white males who feel disenfranchised from the mythical American Dream.


An interesting theory!  Can you tell us more about how you arrived at this conclusion?


----------



## RGS (Aug 21, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> I do think the rise in mass shootings is tied to the availability of personal assault weapons. But that's not all that's going on. It's a cocktail of colliding issues. Other countries have guns; mind you, there are more privately owned guns in the U.S. than in all of the militaries in the world combined. But that's only one component. Stir in "toxic masculitinty" as historically cultivated in a culture that values radical individualism as the ultimate form of character. Add to that the erosion of the middle class and the ultimate subjugation of the working class to increasingly depersonalized corporations. Stir in the breakdown of the public education system and radical collapse of literacy in the U.S., exacerbated by a pandemic of alienation cultivated through addiction to social media, and you have a cultural cluster bomb. Basically, mass shootings are a form of expression perpetrated by voiceless white males who feel disenfranchised from the mythical American Dream.


I can't agree with this. When I was a kid, you could order firearms straight from the Sears catalog and have them shipped directly to your house. There were guns all over the place where I grew up, and most people didn't even bother locking their doors at night because there was so little crime. The 4H Club in my high school took us on a skeet shooting trip once, and any kid could have a rifle or shotgun on the gun rack in his truck on the campus.

It's a statistical fact that states that "allow" concealed carry have lower violent crime rates than states and cities with strict gun control.

As for the "assault" weapons, that's a term that was invented in the late 80's to demonize military-looking rifles and their owners. I have an SKS from the 1950's that I put a "tactical" stock on. In its original form, it looks like an ugly, mundane deer rifle. Once I put the stock on and did my camouflage paint job, now it looks all "mean" and "military." Yet, the function of the rifle hasn't changed one bit. In case you didn't know, an AR-15 fires a little .223 caliber bullet and is far less deadly than the typical hunting rifle or shotgun. They just look "mean" and that scares some people.


----------



## Foxee (Aug 21, 2022)

I was working at a country fair this past week. The way you know that a fair is truly 'country' is if they have a hog-calling contest. I now know every possible way of calling a hog of any size.

It was still better than the karaoke.


----------



## RGS (Aug 21, 2022)

Foxee said:


> I now know every possible way of calling a hog of any size.
> 
> It was still better than the karaoke.


There's not always a difference...


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 24, 2022)

We’re at work laughing at the irony that the front office scheduled their active shooter response drill training the same day that our coworker who shot and killed his neighbor was arraigned in court.

You can’t make this stuff up. Book fodder!!!


----------



## JBF (Aug 24, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> Any excuse for more guns  #Murica


I needed an excuse?  Man, I am _waaaay _behind the curve.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 24, 2022)

JBF said:


> I needed an excuse?  Man, I am _waaaay _behind the curve.


So am I…..


----------



## Sinister (Aug 24, 2022)

I hate guns.  Won't shoot them anymore.  I'd rather defend myself with a baseball bat or a kitchen knife.  I'm/was an amazing crackshot, despite a terrible essential tremor in my right hand.  I have no less than...nine guns, here in the house with me.  One happens to be an AR.  I'm not promoting their ownership, or trying to prove a point on anything and I'm not trying to lessen anyone's opinion on me...  Just reporting the facts and conditions from Kentucky.

But as an aside, If one were to take up a career in home invasion, I would probably suggest you do it elsewhere.

-Sin


----------



## JBF (Aug 24, 2022)

For what it's worth...most of the bad stuff you see is the result of a society unraveling and rearranging.  

America is one nation when you look at it as a geographical object - but sort by cultures and you wind up with six or seven (at least) different mini-states within the landmass.  Historically speaking, anytime you have two dissimilar peoples colliding you're going to have general unquiet, a degree of interchange along the boundary lines, and sometimes violence.  That we're all more interconnected now means that our old tribal maps don't work like they used to.  We can find our people anywhere while also physically being located in the midst of complete strangers.  

That's not bad for the Olde American Melting Pot of Yore and Lore...but people as a general rule tend to gravitate towards their own.  You, me, anybody...we like meeting people who are different, yet we still have that hardwired notion of being most comfortable amongst people who think, act, dress, and believe along similar lines.  Being mobile and wired into each other's thoughts and politics on a twenty-four hour basis tends to damage that.  Suddenly things are less sure, and a long enough uncertainty makes the human animal twitchy and irritable.  

Violence, drug abuse, political shitfights, disrespectful kids, immature adults, a meteoric rise in reports and treatments for mental illness, videogame addiction - all this stuff is symptomatic of a greater upheaval.  The world is changing faster than the human brain can compute, and it leaves too many people afraid, alone, and untrusting.  

The nature of things is to fall apart.  And, my distrust of corporate culture or political parties aside, trees don't rot from the top.


----------



## RGS (Aug 24, 2022)

Sinister said:


> One happens to be an AR.  I'm not promoting their ownership, or trying to prove a point on anything and I'm not trying to lessen anyone's opinion on me...


The AR doesn't need defending. Regardless of what certain people have done with this particular variant of rifle, the AR-15 is the most popular sporting rifle in the USA. There are literally millions of them in the country, and 99.999999999999999% will never be used in the commission of a crime.

Having said that, I've never owned one because I prefer the AK-47. It's not quite as accurate as an AR, but it fires the larger 7.62x39 round, which I prefer.


----------



## JBF (Aug 24, 2022)

RGS said:


> Having said that, I've never owned one because I prefer the AK-47. It's not quite as accurate as an AR, but it fires the larger 7.62x39 round, which I prefer.



_-chuckles in .300 Blackout-_

I never warmed to the AK.  Dunno why.


----------



## Sinister (Aug 24, 2022)

Be all that as it may.  I don't have a dog in this fight, a horse in the race or a gun in this shootout. 

As for the AR.  It is neither mine, nor do I have access to it.  I wouldn't even know how to use it.  It simply is in the house with me as it's true owner has yet to remove it.  I believe the one reason they bought this AR instead of an AK-47 was because of the price-point?  Then again, I'm told you get what you pay for.

I have a Jericho 941, a Colt Python, S&W model 500, an old Ithaca shotgun, .22 rifle.  Couple other guns that aren't mine. 

Can't afford ammo for most of them, anyway.  Irony is, if you break into my house...you're going to suffer the ignominy of being clubbed with a black Louisville Slugger.

-Sin


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## RGS (Aug 25, 2022)

JBF said:


> _-chuckles in .300 Blackout-_
> 
> I never warmed to the AK.  Dunno why.


It's all personal preference, I guess.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 25, 2022)

Sinister said:


> I hate guns.  Won't shoot them anymore.  I'd rather defend myself with a baseball bat or a kitchen knife.  I'm/was an amazing crackshot, despite a terrible essential tremor in my right hand.  I have no less than...nine guns, here in the house with me.  One happens to be an AR.  I'm not promoting their ownership, or trying to prove a point on anything and I'm not trying to lessen anyone's opinion on me...  Just reporting the facts and conditions from Kentucky.
> 
> But as an aside, If one were to take up a career in home invasion, I would probably suggest you do it elsewhere.
> 
> -Sin


I may or may not have firearms in my house - I like to keep people guessing.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 25, 2022)

JBF said:


> For what it's worth...most of the bad stuff you see is the result of a society unraveling and rearranging.
> 
> America is one nation when you look at it as a geographical object - but sort by cultures and you wind up with six or seven (at least) different mini-states within the landmass.  Historically speaking, anytime you have two dissimilar peoples colliding you're going to have general unquiet, a degree of interchange along the boundary lines, and sometimes violence.  That we're all more interconnected now means that our old tribal maps don't work like they used to.  We can find our people anywhere while also physically being located in the midst of complete strangers.
> 
> ...



Amen


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 25, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I may or may not have firearms in my house - I like to keep people guessing.



I did medieval reenactment in the mid 90’s. I have a short sword that was part of my garb/dress at outdoor events (except at feasts). It’s in its scabbard in the closet. I told my wife if there’s an intruder in the middle of the night while I’m at work, simply run down stairs naked while screaming and swinging the sword above your head.


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## Joker (Aug 25, 2022)

The crazy thing in my part of the world is I can't afford upkeeping my classic sports car AND collecting guns


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## TL Murphy (Aug 25, 2022)

We have no guns or swords in the house.  If there’s an intruder, I’ll read him a poem and my wife will explain her digestive problems and he’ll leave, saying he has to go walk his dog.


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## JBF (Aug 25, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> I did medieval reenactment in the mid 90’s. I have a short sword that was part of my garb/dress at outdoor events (except at feasts). It’s in its scabbard in the closet. I told my wife if there’s an intruder in the middle of the night while I’m at work, simply run down stairs naked while screaming and swinging the sword above your head.



Double points for painting yourself blue and screaming _FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!_

Wrong era, I know...I'll show myself out.


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## TL Murphy (Aug 25, 2022)

You would have to scream _FOR THE QUEEEEEEEEEEN! _


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## JBF (Aug 25, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> You would have to scream _FOR THE QUEEEEEEEEEEN! _


_
-pours tea in harbor with malicious intent-_

I know, I know...I'll show myself _back _out.


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## indianroads (Aug 25, 2022)

Out here a lot of folks that worked hard and always paid their way in life are ticked off that our government is set to pay off student loans kids took out for useless university degrees.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 25, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Out here a lot of folks that worked hard and always paid their way in life are ticked off that our government is set to pay off student loans kids took out for useless university degrees.



Ugh, don't get me started.... 

Must keep my religious views and politics to myself.
Must keep my religious views and politics to myself.
Must keep my religious views and politics to myself.



So, who's gonna win the World Series this year?


----------



## PiP (Aug 25, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Pronouns are a big deal here in Colorado, and of course kids are taking it to an extreme that's kinda funny.


I asked my daughter about kids and pronouns as my grandaughter starts senior school next week. It has not caught on yet in France.

Crazy stuff here in Portugal ... drivers can see around bends and over the brow of the hill when they overtake and when they need to pull in because they've run out of  road, they will happily carve you up as they pull in just inches in front of you.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 25, 2022)

PiP said:


> I asked my daughter about kids and pronouns as my grandaughter starts senior school next week. It has not caught on yet in France.



Be glad for that.


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## TL Murphy (Aug 25, 2022)

More crazy stuff in Canmore.  A 91 year old woman was charged by a bear on the river trail 2 days ago.  She sent him packing with her bear spray.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 25, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> More crazy stuff in Canmore.  A 91 year old woman was charged by a bear on the river trail 2 days ago.  She sent him packing with her bear spray.



She is a certified bad-ass.

A.C.


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## Sinister (Aug 25, 2022)

Hmm.  I have a huge student loan debt for a degree I did not need.  We were all fed that same lie by our parents, by our teachers, by society.  "You HAVE to go to University.  You'll NEVER survive without a degree."  By the time I was no longer a stupid teenager and smart enough to realize that for the nonsense it was, I was already a product.  I have a price tag on my ass somewhere.  I don't even know if I'm name brand or brand X.  I'll never be able to pay it off and it just grows larger and larger.  Might as well be twenty million.

If anyone wants to reserve comment on my intelligence of doing what I was told, then I'll gladly bend over and you can "assert the negatives."  I'm not crying for "free money."  It's too late for that.  Do I deserve consideration at the cost of a socialist buy-out?  I don't know.  I'm apolitical and will never have the privilege of looking at my paycheck and other people buried in debt and say...eh..."screw them" or "we must save Sisyphus!"  But I would like if someone would stop this scam now.  Scamming teenagers is slightly more moral than scamming octogenarians and far easier.  Because teenagers are farm-raised optimists and marinaded in freshly stupid hopes and dreams.  So do I demand that the same society that led me up a ramp into a suspicious building now pay for me to be free again?

No.  I'm in a position to demand nothing.

-Sin


----------



## Matchu (Aug 25, 2022)

Turn the professors out into the fields, and then drag the potatoes they tutored - alongside them - together for new tutorials in the sunshine, on the soil.

And also introduce some kind of legislation re combatting this spread of narcissism-egomania-obesity.

Probably will be good.  I see myself like some son of soil, marshall with a pistol, one of those telescopic sticks, and a horse companion, overseer if you like. Drafting now


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## indianroads (Aug 25, 2022)

I paid my way through college - being poor and on my own, I went to a community college.
Studying creative arts would have been my preference, but being poor kinda sucks, so I looked in the newspaper want ads and saw there was a demand for draftsmen. I was always good at drawing so I signed up for their Industrial Design program.
Before graduating - companies came to the collage and hired us - we had jobs right away.
In my career I worked hard and also made a point to keep learning - not just career stuff like programming, but also art history and philosophy. I ended up as a success (not uber rich but enough) and retired when I was 51.
My daughters earned bachelor degrees - they had PELL grants that I helped them pay. Both are successful.


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## Sinister (Aug 25, 2022)

I congratulate you, Indianroads.  You obviously did it right and made a good thing of it. 

-Sin


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## Matchu (Aug 25, 2022)

I’m one of the snobby lot who  
[mobile-tap: half-brain only in usage]


----------



## Taylor (Aug 25, 2022)

The student loan thing is not in my part of the world, but I'm watching it unfold.

I went to a community college for my first degree and worked in the summer and on weekends to pay for it.  For my designation, I worked full-time and went to night school, and paid for it.   For my master's, I paid for half of it and my employer paid for the other half as a taxable benefit.  I also subsidized my son for two degrees, but he worked every summer, spring, and winter break to pay for it.  He took a small loan at the end, and he's paying it back now as he has a lucrative job as a professional.

On the other hand, my two best friends from high school took student loans to attend a costly fine art school to study painting and collage. When they graduated, they had to take non-skilled labor jobs because, surprise, surprise ... there were no prospects for visual artists.    They both got their loans forgiven because they were under a certain income threshold.   One of them now owns a million-dollar home that her parents paid for.  And here's the real kicker, when we were young adults, she used to criticize me for being a materialistic capitalist.


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## indianroads (Aug 25, 2022)

My martial art instructor is an African American named Jamal Aleem (9th Degree Black Belt - in the Taekwondo Hall of Fame). I met him years ago when I switched from Shaolin Kenpo to TKD - we had a mutual friend that I met in Whiskey Gulch... that doesn't matter though... sometimes connections in my memory get tangled. Anyway - he got a free ride at the University of California (due to his race and FOO income level), and got some sort of a degree in music. He has a recording studio and has recorded some albums (do they still call them that?) - but has never made much money in that field. Instead, he teaches martial arts in East Palo Alto.

I love the guy, but you know - I think he wasted an opportunity. If he had pursued a degree in a marketable field he would have done much better. 

Like @Taylor , I've been accused of being materialistic. My usual comeback is that material is freaking awesome because it beats wondering where your next meal is coming from, where you'll sleep, and how you'll survive the next day. After much deliberation I have come to the conclusion that self reliance and money = good.


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Aug 25, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> We have no guns or swords in the house.  If there’s an intruder, I’ll read him a poem and my wife will explain her digestive problems and he’ll leave, saying he has to go walk his dog.


We always say a burglar would take one look at our crappy belongings and leave us a care package


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Aug 25, 2022)

What kills me about the student loan forgiveness is the GQP lawmakers screaming about it the loudest has been forgiven millions in PPP loans. Hypocrite much?


----------



## Joker (Aug 25, 2022)

I don't agree with the student loan forgiveness morally but goddamn am I glad to have it personally, lol.


----------



## Sinister (Aug 25, 2022)

I'm not materialistic, by any sense of the word.  If I won a billion dollars tomorrow, I would live like Picasso said.  Like a poor man with a lot of money.  The main thing I'd use my billion dollars to buy would be privacy and a billion dollars would almost insure that I couldn't afford it.  So, I'm not missing much by being in debt.  I have enough money to keep to myself, despite not having nearly enough to do much else.

-Sin


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 25, 2022)

Sinister said:


> I'm not materialistic, by any sense of the word.  If I won a billion dollars tomorrow, I would live like Picasso said.  Like a poor man with a lot of money.  The main thing I'd use my billion dollars to buy would be privacy and a billion dollars would almost insure that I couldn't afford it.  So, I'm not missing much by being in debt.  I have enough money to keep to myself, despite not having nearly enough to do much else.
> 
> -Sin



Heck, I’d just pay off the rest of my house and redo the interior of it if I had a million dollars. Not that it needs a million in work, but you can do a lot of great essential upgrades for some serious coinage.


----------



## RGS (Aug 25, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Out here a lot of folks that worked hard and always paid their way in life are ticked off that our government is set to pay off student loans kids took out for useless university degrees.


Post of the year. 

"_Can't find a job with that 'History of Water Wheels' degree from that Liberal Arts university? Don't sweat it! Uncle Sugar is here to help!_"

Meanwhile, families who sacrificed to put their kids through get told, "_Tough._"

It's a max of $10,000.00 right now, but we all know how these things tend to grow.


----------



## RGS (Aug 25, 2022)

Technology has done a lot to destroy the old college degree paradigm. Most IT job ads that prefer a degree will tack on, "_or equivalent experience._" I've never seen an actual definition of this or an equivalence chart, so maybe I have a double Doctorate by now? It's hard to tell.

I do know this, however: I've known people with advanced degrees who didn't have the sense to come in out of the rain.

Not knocking education. Just stating a fact.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> [...]
> 
> I do know this, however: I've known people with advanced degrees who didn't have the sense to come in out of the rain.


Oh hell yeah.
As we say in my neck of the woods, they can't find their butt even using two hands.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

I was watching CNN yesterday, and they had a guy on who was complaining that the $10,000 wasn't enough because it would only cover the interest on his student loan debt which is currently $250,000.  He is now a Ph.D. student, although he didn't share what field; as far as I know, the only thing you need a Ph.D. for is to teach at a university, and those jobs are hard to land.  How can someone with this much student debt and still racking it up teach anybody anything?


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I was watching CNN yesterday, and they had a guy on who was complaining that the $10,000 wasn't enough because it would only cover the interest on his student loan debt which is currently $250,000.  He is now a Ph.D. student, although he didn't share what field; as far as I know, the only thing you need a Ph.D. for is to teach at a university, and those jobs are hard to land.  How can someone with this much student debt and still racking it up teach anybody anything?


Maybe he can teach the Advanced What Not To Do class.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

Trying to avoid soap-boxing and pontificating, so if I'm out of bounds, please say so.

My take on the whole matter is that we are looking in the wrong direction. We're too busy griping about the the loans, when I believe we honestly need to decide on why class credits at colleges cost so much to begin with. We shouldn't be shaming the banks loaning the money, but instead shaming the colleges for their outrageous prices.

But what do I know? My college was basically a bar with a $15,000 cover charge, and it no longer exists....

<beep beep>  forktruck driver with a worthless degree coming thru... <beep beep>


A.C.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Trying to avoid soap-boxing and pontificating, so if I'm out of bounds, please say so.
> 
> My take on the whole matter is that we are looking in the wrong direction. We're too busy griping about the the loans, when I believe we honestly need to decide on why class credits at colleges cost so much to begin with. We shouldn't be shaming the banks loaning the money, but instead shaming the colleges for their outrageous prices.
> 
> ...


I have a very easy solution to the whole mess, and as soon as I'm elected to office (I have to actually run first), it will be implemented. 

Phase 1: Instead of the government (aka taxpayers) ensuring student loans, make the universities themselves do it. Of course it's out of hand. The schools know that they'll get their money regardless, because it's backed by the government. That's why they think nothing about signing an 18-year old up for $100K or more in debt. But if the risk were placed on the schools, not only would the loan insanity stop, but the prices would come down dramatically.

Phase 2: Make it clear to students that the only career they can possibly obtain with certain degrees is to teach that subject. Period. Let them know, in no uncertain terms, that if they get a degree in Ancient Greek History, they can do exactly one thing with that: teach Ancient Greek History.

Phase 3: This one is for employers. Stop demanding that applicants have $DEGREE$ in _some_ topic, _any_ topic, regardless of whether it's even remotely related to the job. It's ridiculous to have a job opening for a construction manager and give someone with, say, a Bachelor's degree in Sociology an advantage over someone with actual construction management experience. 

Phase 4: This one is for society at large. Wake up and realize that: a) There is a great living to be made in many of the trades, and b) Not everyone should go to college. I must ask, would you rather be a plumber, welder, or electrician making $60k to $80k a year, or a fresh college graduate who can't find a job?


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> I have a very easy solution to the whole mess, and as soon as I'm elected to office (I have to actually run first), it will be implemented.
> 
> Phase 1: Instead of the government (aka taxpayers) ensuring student loans, make the universities themselves do it. Of course it's out of hand. The schools know that they'll get their money regardless, because it's backed by the government. That's why they think nothing about signing an 18-year old up for $100K or more in debt. But if the risk were placed on the schools, not only would the loan insanity stop, but the prices would come down dramatically.
> 
> ...


Dear President RGS,
Please pass these laws:
 No elected lawmaker is allowed to profit from the laws they enact.
Elected public servants should earn the same salary and benefits as their median constituents. 
10 year term limits on all elected and appointed positions.
If a person is running unopposed, remove that office/position, no one should become an elected lawmaker by default.
Make voting compulsory.
Signed,
Not holding my breath


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> Dear President RGS,
> Please pass these laws:
> No elected lawmaker is allowed to profit from the laws they enact.
> Elected public servants should earn the same salary and benefits as their median constituents.
> ...


Dear C.K. Johnson,

I will enact all of the above by executive order, in addition to adding a mandatory "None of the Above" to all election ballots. If "None of the Above" wins the election, the election will be run once more. If "None of the Above" wins again, the position will remain unfilled until the next election.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

Oh, and I forgot this part. When an elected official goes into an office that pays $120,000.00 a year, yet they leave that office four years later as a multi-millionaire, it will be investigated.


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> Oh, and I forgot this part. When an elected official goes into an office that pays $120,000.00 a year, yet they leave that office four years later as a multi-millionaire, it will be investigated.


You have my vote!


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

If President RGS puts me in the administration, I will work tirelessly to dissolve the Treasury Department.  


With chemicals, if need be.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> If President RGS puts me in the administration, I will work tirelessly to dissolve the Treasury Department.
> 
> 
> With chemicals, if need be.


I actually prefer the chemical method in this context. Once you're done, do the same for the FBI and the ATF.


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> I actually prefer the chemical method in this context. Once you're done, do the same for the FBI and the ATF.



ATF is under the Treasury.  

edit:  

Or not.  Doesn’t matter as long as we’ve got gas enough for the FlameDozer.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> ATF is under the Treasury.
> 
> edit:
> 
> Or not.  Doesn’t matter as long as we’ve got gas enough for the FlameDozer.


Good catch. I forgot about that.

I agree with Ted Nugent on this one: "_Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency._"


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

“What kind of government _do_ you want?”

“….I don’t.”


----------



## indianroads (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I was watching CNN yesterday, and they had a guy on who was complaining that the $10,000 wasn't enough because it would only cover the interest on his student loan debt which is currently $250,000.  He is now a Ph.D. student, although he didn't share what field; as far as I know, the only thing you need a Ph.D. for is to teach at a university, and those jobs are hard to land.  How can someone with this much student debt and still racking it up teach anybody anything?


His PhD is in being a leech on society, he probably has a minor course of study in ‘Mr. Fancypants , my shit doesn’t stink’.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> What kills me about the student loan forgiveness is the GQP lawmakers screaming about it the loudest has been forgiven millions in PPP loans. Hypocrite much?


As a Canadian, I have no skin in the game here, but I find U.S. politics fascinating.  It's like watching a never-ending tennis match!  

This issue about the PPP loan program came up when the Whitehouse Twitter account clapped back at GOP members who were critics of the student loan forgiveness program.  In this case, I don't think one counters the other.

The PPP loan program was an *incentive* provided to prevent small business closures and keep jobs during Covid.  The loan forgiveness was set out before the loan was provided, and recipients knew up front the criteria for the forgiveness.  That is how incentive programs work!  So if they take the loan and don't meet the criteria - no forgiveness.  Any entity that met the requirements was eligible for the loan, and if they met the criteria - loan forgiveness.  Perfectly fair!  If businesses chose not to take the risk of a PPP loan and laid off employees instead, that was their choice, and they knew that upfront.

The difference with the student loan program is that it is *retroactive*.  People made their decisions on the basis of the loans having to be paid back, and many either didn't take them or paid them back as agreed to.  So by giving forgiveness after the fact, you are creating an incentive program for people to not pay back the loans.

To make these programs comparable, you would have to make the student loan forgiveness program an incentive.  In other words, the forgiveness portion is set out upfront when they take the money.  Then it's *fair* because everyone is aware and entitled to it if they meet certain criteria.  I would suggest the criteria be something like they:

complete their degree by a certain time.
get employment in their field of study by a certain time frame.
show that their income is greater than it would have been if they had not gone to school.
other?


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> If President RGS puts me in the administration, I will work tirelessly to dissolve the Treasury Department.
> 
> 
> With chemicals, if need be.



I’ll be delivering those to you on my forktruck


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> Good catch. I forgot about that.
> 
> I agree with Ted Nugent on this one: "_Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency._"



Oh, the Ted stories I could tell!!!


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> If President RGS puts me in the administration, I will work tirelessly to dissolve the Treasury Department.


I’m making a claim for head of the FCC, by the way, when we elect RGS.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I looked in the newspaper want ads and saw there was a demand for draftsmen. I was always good at drawing so I signed up for their Industrial Design program.
> Before graduating - companies came to the collage and hired us - we had jobs right away.


I did the same thing!  I got laid off when a large American corp. centralized operations and moved the manufacturing to China.  They gave me an option to move to China or take a severance package.   I took the package and found another job.  Seeing the writing on the wall for the manufacturing industry in Canada, I decided to get re-educated.  Opened the paper to the want ads.  There were a handful of jobs in various fields and three full pages of accounting jobs.  Took one course, Accounting 101, at night school, went out for three interviews, and all three employers wanted to hire me.  LOL!   Never looked back!


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> I’m making a claim for head of the FCC, by the way, when we elect RGS.


Can you move a bunch of the news networks out on your forktruck?


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

I have student loans.  Ten thousand wouldn’t wipe out the balance, exactly, but it would get close.  I also disagree with clearing the board, for several reasons.

1) A huge amount of said debt is held by grad school students.  Grad school means an individual who already has a degree, but opted to keep borrowing.  Presumably this is done with an assumption of higher paying employments in the future.  Whatever else….it means somebody already deep in the system weighed the cost/benefit and accepted the risk.  I’m sorry if someone owes half a million and can’t get anything better-paying than academic grunt work right now, but the pity runs out quick when most of these degrees only lead to educational pyramid schemes and and a larger pool of academic leeches who will someday make their bones in the very racket they’re ducking now.


2) The range for forgiveness is too high. Somebody making $125-250k/yr doesn’t need a break - they need an accounting class. I understand cost of living, yes, but there exists an alarming number of people in this country living paycheck-to-paycheck on six figures because they can’t rope in _what is wanted _long enough to address _what is owed._

3) Whole generation (and counting) who from the cradle onward were brainwashed to believe they would _never_ amount to anything without a degree, and that blue collar and tradesman work was the last refuge of the ignorant and unwashed.  To this end, many with no practical need of a degree pursued one and had to borrow from the dot-gov to do so. 


4) Higher education is a racket.  Why do they price tuition so high?  Because the feds shoveling money at them allows it.  Force institutions of higher learning to keep some skin in the game by putting them on the hook (read, shouldering the risk of defaulting students by paying from their university endowment/government dole money) and see how long it takes for this to get sorted.

4)  The federal government is involved.  At no point in history has government ever managed to streamline, simplify, or otherwise render _any _process more efficient or profitable.

5)  An amnesty of this type discourages fiscal responsibility.  Why pay for anything if the debts are eventually wiped clean?  This is akin to giving a child an internet connection and an unlimited credit card.  Why steward your own finances when somebody else picks up the tab?  And what happens when they stop?

6) Teenagers have shit judgment.  I did.  You did.  Even if you were one of the good ones, you still screwed up because experience is the best teacher, and prior to a certain point…you don’t have any.  As it sits, all those government loans are essentially free money to people who don’t grasp the weight of this arrangement, nor the possibility of being crippled and vulnerable during some of their most productive years.


7) …and the crux of the issue:  YOU BORROWED, NOW YOU OWE.  

***

Were it my call?  You want to help people like me who aren’t out here raking it in and _don’t _want somebody else saddled with my choices?

Cancel student loan _interest.  _Count whatever I’ve already paid back and put it towards the principle, because I’m happy to pay off every penny I borrowed - but be damned if I’m paying _twice._


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> Can you move a bunch of the news networks out on your forktruck?



Move them or demolish them. Take your pick. It’s amazing the damage 9000lbs will do at 10mph. 

Or, um, so I’ve, um, been told.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> Can you move a bunch of the news networks out on your forktruck?


That would be the first step toward restoring sanity to the world.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> 3) Whole generation (and counting) who from the cradle onward were brainwashed to believe they would _never_ amount to anything without a degree, and that blue collar and tradesman work was the last refuge of the ignorant and unwashed.  To this end, many with no practical need of a degree pursued one and had to borrow from the dot-gov to do so.


THIS! ^^^^

And ironically, at the same time people were being brainwashed with this notion, movies and TV shows were bombarding kids with the notion that college students did nothing but party. 

Saddest of all, for a long time it didn't seem to matter _what_ one's degree was in as long as they had that sheepskin to hang on the wall. People used to tell me things like, "_Well, the fact that you finished college shows an employer that you have persistence, blah, blah, blah..._" I never bought into it. I mean, if that was the only real value in going to school, then I don't see the point.


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Oh, the Ted stories I could tell!!!


I used to run into the Nuge back when I lived in Waco…one of the perks of an otherwise lousy sales job.  Hard to miss that zebra-striped Hummer he was rolling on those days.  

Last time was a gun shop down in Austin, probably around 2007 or so…came in with governor to look at carry pistols.


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Move them or demolish them. Take your pick. It’s amazing the damage 9000lbs will do at 10mph.
> 
> Or, um, so I’ve, um, been told.




This calls for science.  

Mad, flammable, irresponsible raccoon science.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> What kills me about the student loan forgiveness is the GQP lawmakers screaming about it the loudest has been forgiven millions in PPP loans. Hypocrite much?


It's been years since I've fallen for the Republican-Democrat paradigm My political stance is as follows:

1. I hate the Democratic Party.

2. I strongly dislike the Republicans.

But, political parties have gained an immutable foothold into our country, even though the Founding Fathers warned against them. We're all left stuck voting for the lesser of two evils. And if we keep doing that, sooner or later, neither of the evils will be any "lesser."


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> THIS! ^^^^
> 
> And ironically, at the same time people were being brainwashed with this notion, movies and TV shows were bombarding kids with the notion that college students did nothing but party.



The _Animal House _effect is tenacious in popular culture.

It’s actually kind of sad, watching it play out.



RGS said:


> Saddest of all, for a long time it didn't seem to matter _what_ one's degree was in as long as they had that sheepskin to hang on the wall. People used to tell me things like, "_Well, the fact that you finished college shows an employer that you have persistence, blah, blah, blah..._" I never bought into it. I mean, if that was the only real value in going to school, then I don't see the point.



One of the few major disagreements I ever had with the parents stemmed from this.  Dad figured education without a degree was basically a hobby, so I got dragooned into a program that bled those college savings dry for a degree I didn’t get in a field where logbooks and practical certifications outweigh parchment. 

It was a terrific waste, and pretty eye-opening towards the nature of education in this country.

I’m still more than a little bitter about it.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> I have student loans.  Ten thousand wouldn’t wipe out the balance, exactly, but it would get close.  I also disagree with clearing the board, for several reasons.


That's great, JBF -- glad to hear you will benefit!  And that you're also not blind to the bigger picture.


JBF said:


> 2) The range for forgiveness is too high. Somebody making $125-250k/yr doesn’t need a break - they need an accounting class. I understand cost of living, yes, but there exists an alarming number of people in this country living paycheck-to-paycheck on six figures because they can’t rope in _what is wanted _long enough to address _what is owed._


Exactly!  A couple making 250K getting a gift of $20,000 is absurd!!


JBF said:


> 4) Higher education is a racket.  Why do they price tuition so high?  Because the feds shoveling money at them allows it.  Force institutions of higher learning to keep some skin in the game by putting them on the hook (read, shouldering the risk of defaulting students by paying from their university endowment/government dole money) and see how long it takes for this to get sorted.


Totally!  Just another version of Fannie Mae enabling unethical business practices.  The Harvard Endowment’s value was $41.9 billion at the end of the fiscal year 2020, an increase of $1.0 billion from $40.9 billion a year earlier.   And this is typical of many large universities.


JBF said:


> Cancel student loan _interest.  _Count whatever I’ve already paid back and put it towards the principle because I’m happy to pay off every penny I borrowed - but be damned if I’m paying _twice._


I thought of that too, but the only problem is the principle that a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.   So government funds would be tied up and depreciating.  And with no interest, you remove the incentive to pay it back.  Another method to discourage reckless borrowing would be to make the interest rate much higher. 

The problem now with the lower rates is that there's no incentive for Mom or Dad to dip into their savings to help out because they can make more on investment interest/income.  Many parents deploy the strategy, you borrow the money at a lower rate, and I'll help you with the payments.  It's financially sound.  I think they even do have loans for parents, which can be another disincentive to pay upfront if they can afford it.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> One of the few major disagreements I ever had with the parents stemmed from this.  Dad figured education without a degree was basically a hobby, so I got dragooned into a program that bled those college savings dry for a degree I didn’t get in a field where logbooks and practical certifications outweigh parchment.
> 
> It was a terrific waste, and pretty eye-opening towards the nature of education in this country.
> 
> I’m still more than a little bitter about it.


I hear what you're saying!  But you did gain something from that degree.  You are one of, if not the most articulate member on this forum.


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I hear what you're saying!  But you did gain something from that degree.  You are one of, if not the most articulate member on this forum.



If true, we are all in deep, deep trouble.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

*Hey Guys!  This is a great discussion, but let's stick to discussing government policy and not move into discussing political parties.  You know where that will end up - right?    *


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> *Hey Guys!  This is a great discussion, but let's stick to discussing government policy and not move into discussing political parties.  You know where that will end up - right?   *



So, no campaigning for RGS?

Asking for @indianroads


----------



## VRanger (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> It's been years since I've fallen for the Republican-Democrat paradigm My political stance is as follows:
> 
> 1. I hate the Democratic Party.
> 
> ...


*I'm going to let this live since it's equally derogatory. LOL But thus far this discussion has been issue oriented rather than politics oriented. Please keep that in mind folks. No politics on WF. ;-) (Except in Dante's, and I don't really think there's much profit in political discussions even there).*


----------



## VRanger (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I hear what you're saying!  But you did gain something from that degree.  You are one of, if not the most articulate member on this forum.


I believe he attributes that primarily to rabies.


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

VRanger said:


> I believe he attributes that primarily to rabies.



HELL YEAH BROTHER


----------



## indianroads (Aug 26, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> So, no campaigning for RGS?
> 
> Asking for @indianroads


Right... go ahead and get me in trouble dude (just kidding).
Actually this thread started with my post about a kid in primary school 'identifying' as a _*banana cat*_. He refused to answer the teacher's questions and would only meow in response. Kinda I wish I had that option when learning algebra.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 26, 2022)

VRanger said:


> *I'm going to let this live since it's equally derogatory. LOL But thus far this discussion has been issue oriented rather than politics oriented. Please keep that in mind folks. No politics on WF. ;-) (Except in Dante's, and I don't really think there's much profit in political discussions even there).*


Well... I'm a Libertarian, because I like Libraries.  Does that count?


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Well... I'm a Libertarian, because I like Libraries.  Does that count?



I thought that made you a Liberian.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> I thought that made you a Liberian.


But those that like libraries are an institution, therefore, we're Libertarian.


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

Are we guests or inmates in this institution?

Asking for a friend.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

*Thanks, everyone!     *


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

OK, now that I've got time, I'll share two Ted stories.  Everybody around here has at least a DOZEN Ted stories, and I probably have that many, but these are two favorites.  Now, before I begin, I know Ted's a polarizing person for his politics, even around here, however.....

Back in 1991. My dad's a (now retired) metal shop teacher at the high school I graduated from up/over here. His dream car is a 1955 Chevy. My uncle called him from Missouri and said he found him one that needed a LOT of work on it, but the price was hard to beat. So my dad drove down and trailered it home and pu it in his shop class. On the weekends, some evenings, and during his lunch breaks, he'd work on restoring it. It was nice because he had a lot of the tools and machines to work on it there in his classroom. Plus the principal at the time could care less.

My dad and brother were there one evening working on the car. It also happened to be the same night that the school that Ted's son Toby went to played our school in basketball. And Toby was a starter for their team. Dad took a break from working on the car, and walked down to the gym to catch the game for a minute. He walked into the gym, and there stood the local police chief, was is a long time friend and snowmobiling (or snowmachining as some of you call them) buddy of my dad. As they stood there next to the doorway chit chatting, Dad realized somebody was standing on the other side of him against the wall. He glanced over, and it was Ted.
Dad, wanting to strike up a conversation with him, asks him about the game. Ted proceeds to tell my dad about a hunting trip he just came back from. Dad said, 'no, the ball game' to which Ted spoke highly of how Toby was playing that night, and the three of them started to converse. According to my dad, the conversation turned to cars, and he mentioned to Ted about the 55 he was restoring down the hall in his classroom. Ted seemed interested in it, and asked my dad where his classroom was. Dad gave him directions, and then headed back, figuring Ted was just being polite and wasn't really going to walk down there to look at some disassembled rust bucket.

Some time later there was a knock on the door, and Ted walked in. It was half time intermission. My brother's jaw dropped to the floor, from what my dad told me. Dad, my brother, and Ted spent about fifteen minutes talking about the car and classic cars in general. Before he left to go back to watch the game, Ted signed on my dad's chalkboard: "Stay In School, Stay Off Drugs, Rock On! Ted Nugent."

His students couldn't believe it when they came to class on Monday and saw the chalkboard.


A.C.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> Are we guests or inmates in this institution?
> 
> Asking for a friend.


I don't see bars on my office window, so I guess we're good.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Well... I'm a Libertarian, because I like Libraries.  Does that count?



I had you pegged for a fellow LPer.   You're climbing higher and higher on my Xmas card list.

If I had a Xmas card list....


OK, I'm done talking politics!!!

A.C.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> Tradespeople holding home builders to ransom, and building materials quadrupled. But still, it's not slowing development.  Lots of money comes in from countries that place less value on a human life.


I bought a 1/2-inch thick, 4x8-foot sheet of untreated plywood a couple of days ago and it was $49.00 and change. Two years ago it would have been maybe $20.00.


----------



## JBF (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> I bought a 1/2-inch thick, 4x8-foot sheet of untreated plywood a couple of days ago and it was $49.00 and change. Two years ago it would have been maybe $20.00.



We finished out a 40x30 shop a few 
months back with OSB (aka plywood oatmeal).

Pretty sure it put somebody’s kid through college.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

JBF said:


> We finished out a 40x30 shop a few
> months back with OSB (aka plywood oatmeal).
> 
> Pretty sure it put somebody’s kid through college.


No doubt. It's gotten ridiculous. Even MDF is through the roof these days and as pricey as some of the plywood.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

Ted Story Number B...

At college at AIFL in Florida (also in 1991), the guy in the room next to me was a fellow intern at WSRF/WSHE, who worked with the WSHE morning show. (I'll name drop. Steve "Omelette" Normin for those of you who were in south Florida in the early 90's.) He's also a HUGE Ted-Head. And when he found out that I'm from the city where Ted's got his bow shop, well, I was his new best friend. 

I came home over the summer, and decided to pick up a few promo swags for giveaways on my radio show, and also get a few souvenirs for Omelette from Ted's bow shop. I walked in there, and started talking to the guy behind the counter. I can hear Ted in the back talking with a local celeb cowboy car salesman (both have pretty distinctive voices). I explain to the guy behind the counter that I'm home on vacation, going to college in Fort Lauderdale, and dong a radio show at WSHE/WSRF, and ask if there's any free promo swag. He's starts copping an attitude. I'm about to leave, when I hear Ted holler at me from the back. Him and local celeb cowboy car salesman walk out.

I explain to Ted who I am, and why I was there. He instantly mentions the morning show. Without missing a beat, he snaggs about two dozen posters, bumper stickers, and a few catalogues, autographs all of them while still chatting with local celeb cowboy car salesman, shakes my hand when he handed them all to me, and they both go to the back room.

I might still have one or two in my radio swag milk crate somewhere in the basement.


A.C.


----------



## VRanger (Aug 26, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Without missing a beat, he snaggs about two dozen posters, bumper stickers, and a few catalogues, autographs all of them while still chatting with local celeb cowboy car salesman, shakes my hand when he handed them all to me, and they both go to the back room.
> A.C.


That's the difference between a man who understands publicity and a man who runs a cash register.


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> I bought a 1/2-inch thick, 4x8-foot sheet of untreated plywood a couple of days ago and it was $49.00 and change. Two years ago it would have been maybe $20.00.


Okay this interests me. I just checked the price of a 1/2" sheet of plywood at the closest Home Depot which is 65 miles away in Calgary Alberta. It's $49 Canadian, which is about $38 US. This surprised me because I built a duplex over the last year and paid around $75 a sheet. It was up to $100 in June '21.

Canada has all the wood but lumber is generally more expensive here because there's less demand and most of the lumber goes to the states. Plus, there are complicated lumber terrifs which always seem to work in US's favour.

 In fact when we started framing in May '21, I could not buy a 2x6 stud. There were train loads of them at the mills but I could not buy one stick. I had already paid for my whole lumber package, a strategy that generally worked well for us since we anticipated exorbitant inflation,  but I got stung on the lumber.  My supplier, under pressure, went across town, found some premium fir in longer lengths slated for Japan, bought them at a loss, cut it up for me and honored their price. A few weeks later, plywood doubled again and they sold me the roof package at their cost which was a about out 50% more than what I'd already paid for it, so I antied up since they'd done me good on the studs. That's how you keep friends and stay in business.

The price of lumber tripled between Dec 31, 2020 and June 1 2021. The price of plywood quadrupled. This happened exactly when we started building. The stress was life threatening. In the end though, house prices skyrocketed too but about 6 about months later. We sold the other side of the duplex and it all worked out. We broke even. But it was a chilling ride. I'm glad it's over and at 67,  I'm done.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> Okay this interests me. I just checked the price of a 1/2" sheet of plywood at the closest Home Depot which is 65 miles away in Calgary Alberta. It's $49 Canadian, which is about $38 US. This surprised me because I built a duplex over the last year and paid around $75 a sheet. It was up to $100 in June '21.
> 
> Canada has all the wood but lumber is generally more expensive here because there's less demand and most of the lumber goes to the states. Plus, there are complicated lumber terrifs which always seem to work in US's favour.
> 
> ...


Could it be that the prices flipped because of fuel prices? Just speculating. It would cost more now to ship the lumber here in the Southeastern USA, even though it might otherwise sell for less here.

We also have to consider that the Lowe's and Home Depot stores tend to have various grades and "versions" of plywood, so we might not necessarily be comparing apples to apples. They have treated, sanded, 1/2, 15/32nds (which is sometimes considered "half inch"), and so on. I can go on their websites and get quite confused in a hurry.


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 26, 2022)

Taylor said:


> An interesting theory!  Can you tell us more about how you arrived at this conclusion?


Taylor, you're referring to my concluding comment :

"Mass shootings are a form of expression perpetrated by voiceless white males who feel disenfranchised from the mythical American Dream."

First of all, I don't know the spirit in which this question is asked. If it's sincere then I want to engage. But if it's cynical I just open myself up to ridicule. After a few days of considering whether to respond or not, I did write a comprehensive response over  the next 2 or 3 days. But now I recognize that I can't post it here because  I can't honestly answer your question without delving into religion and politics. Which sucks as far as I'm concerned.

How's that for cancel culture? Censured before I open my mouth.

If you're really interested, send me a private message and I'll share it with you.


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 26, 2022)

RGS said:


> Could it be that the prices flipped because of fuel prices? Just speculating. It would cost more now to ship the lumber here in the Southeastern USA, even though it might otherwise sell for less here.
> 
> We also have to consider that the Lowe's and Home Depot stores tend to have various grades and "versions" of plywood, so we might not necessarily be comparing apples to apples. They have treated, sanded, 1/2, 15/32nds (which is sometimes considered "half inch"), and so on. I can go on their websites and get quite confused in a hurry.


Fuel prices could have something to do with it.  But gas here is now almost half the price it was just a month ago.  I suppose there's a lag. But I rarely see lumber cheaper here than in the U.S. I don't typically buy from HD because it's mostly DIY and shipping from the city cancels the savings unless is a semi load, but I like to see what their bottom line is because it gives me negotiating power. But sometimes it's even cheaper here. It all has to do with how long the wood has been in the yard or when it was purchased. I do know what the quality is. I wasn't born yesterday.


----------



## RGS (Aug 26, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> Fuel prices could have something to do with it.  But gas here is now almost half the price it was just a month ago.  I suppose there's a lag. But I rarely see lumber cheaper here than in the U.S. I don't typically buy from HD because shipping from the city cancels the savings but I like to see what their bottom line is because it gives me negotiating power. But sometimes it's even cheaper here. It all has to do with how long the wood has been in the yard or when it was purchased. I know what the quality is. I wasn't born yesterday.


When I bought this two days ago, I basically eyeballed the sheets of different thicknesses and said, "This one." It might have been 1/2, or 15/32nds, or who knows what? I just know that it's untreated and approximately half an inch.

It might have actually been this at $41.60, not $49.00, but I had looked at a $49.00 piece. I've slept since then!









						19/32 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. Rtd Sheathing Syp 195482 - The Home Depot
					


Plywood sheathing is ideal for residential and light commercial construction, and every piece meets the highest grading standards for strength and appearance. It adds proven performance and durability




					www.homedepot.com


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 26, 2022)

That's actually 5/8. 1/2" is 16/32. So it's not a bad price considering overall volatility. Comparable to prices here.


----------



## Taylor (Aug 26, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> Taylor, you're referring to my concluding comment :
> 
> "Mass shootings are a form of expression perpetrated by voiceless white males who feel disenfranchised from the mythical American Dream."
> 
> ...


My question was sincere.  As a mother and aunt, the mass shootings in schools are distressing.  But I had not heard this theory before.  That's why I was interested.  During my tenure as an ethics specialist for the government, I had the unfortunate experience of giving input on a shooting that occurred in our workplace. So that was the spirit in which I asked.  Staff at WF are carefully selected and would never ridicule anyone. 

I'm very interested in hearing your response.  I'll send you a PM.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 26, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> Okay this interests me. I just checked the price of a 1/2" sheet of plywood at the closest Home Depot which is 65 miles away in Calgary Alberta.



Go Flames! Think we’re looking better defensively than we did last year, but losing Mony, Chuck, and Johnny Hockey hurt.


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 26, 2022)

I'm Canadian but I grew up in Florida. Never learned to skate. Hell of a swimmer though.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 27, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Move them or demolish them. Take your pick. It’s amazing the damage 9000lbs will do at 10mph.
> 
> Or, um, so I’ve, um, been told.


PBS news should be gone too.


----------



## Theglasshouse (Aug 27, 2022)

Recluse spiders appeared in the newspaper headlines. They're from Brazil and since they somehow got introduced into the country. I know the brown recluse spider exists in the united states. Apparently, they attack people when they fall asleep. It's been virtually unheard of here and that is why I suppose it appeared in the newspaper. I think this thread is very appropriate to tell news that appears in the newspaper.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 27, 2022)

Theglasshouse said:


> Recluse spiders appeared in the newspaper headlines. They're from Brazil and since they somehow got introduced into the country. I know the brown recluse spider exists in the united states. Apparently, they attack people when they fall asleep. It's been virtually unheard of here and that is why I suppose it appeared in the newspaper. I think this thread is very appropriate to tell news that appears in the newspaper.


I hate spiders - where I grew up, Wolf Spiders would get into our beds at night, and we'd wake up with big red welts that itched like crazy but hurt when we scratched them. Wolf Spider pic.


----------



## JBF (Aug 27, 2022)

I cultivate wolf spiders on account of they kill black widow and brown recluse, plus any number of other, lesser irritants.

Bioweapon spider got no reason to live.


----------



## Sinister (Aug 27, 2022)

Theglasshouse said:


> Recluse spiders appeared in the newspaper headlines. They're from Brazil and since they somehow got introduced into the country. I know the brown recluse spider exists in the united states. Apparently, they attack people when they fall asleep. It's been virtually unheard of here and that is why I suppose it appeared in the newspaper. I think this thread is very appropriate to tell news that appears in the newspaper.



They do attack when people sleep.  Can confirm that happening to three different people around here.  Two of them relatives.  I've been bitten no less than four times by them.  I've shrugged off all the bites.  They barely give me a spot that lasts three or four days.  If you need them and have them, use of nitro patches counteracts the venom, as the venom causes necrosis through blood vessel constriction, starving the tissue surrounding the bite.

I've been bitten by every evil North American spider.  Was bitten by a black widow.  I did NOT shrug that bite off.  That was pain.  Imagine having a charlie-horse or muscle spasm all over your body(mostly stomach/abdomen) and I was shaking like a leaf from latrodectism for three days afterwards.

Be safe out there.

-Sin


----------



## TL Murphy (Aug 27, 2022)

I read somewhere that the average America eats 8 spiders in their sleep over a lifetime.


----------



## Sinister (Aug 27, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> I read somewhere that the average America eats 8 spiders in their sleep over a lifetime.



Nah, that's bollocks.

-Sin


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 27, 2022)

Theglasshouse said:


> Recluse spiders appeared in the newspaper headlines. They're from Brazil and since they somehow got introduced into the country. I know the brown recluse spider exists in the united states. Apparently, they attack people when they fall asleep. It's been virtually unheard of here and that is why I suppose it appeared in the newspaper. I think this thread is very appropriate to tell news that appears in the newspaper.



False. They only attack when they feel threatened. Family friend got bitten putting on clothes.


----------



## indianroads (Aug 27, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> I read somewhere that the average America eats 8 spiders in their sleep over a lifetime.


Ok - I could have lived my entire life happy to NOT know that.


----------



## Theglasshouse (Aug 27, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> False. They only attack when they feel threatened. Family friend got bitten putting on clothes.


It's okay to be wrong. Apparently, the newspaper in question is in Spanish. I read that majority of cases happen when the person is sound asleep. However, there were 15 cases of little children who were less than 3 years of age (out of 50). Also, some cases included people working in agricultural fields. I am only a messenger of what I read in the newspaper.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 28, 2022)

Lots of sirens a few blocks away. Turned on the scanner, and cops talking about blood trail and EMT's staging and waiting for the _*all clear*_ to head into the area. Must've been a stabbing, because I never heard gunshots. As close as it is, I would've heard something. 

Now there's an unconscious suicidal subject across town. Possible intentional OD. And I'm here trying to re-write a lover's spat between the two MC's with a cat that thinks its feeding time is _*NOW* _and not three hours from now like he's _supposed_ to eat.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Aug 31, 2022)

I had Mikhail Gorbachev on my list for Celebrity Dead Pool, and now currently in 5th place in one league, and still winning another.


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 16, 2022)

A bonanza of sausage dogs apparently!  who knew my little corner of the world had so many?! 








						Thousands of sausage dogs descend on beach to 'smash' world record
					


Thousands of four-legged friends descended on a Suffolk beach this weekend hoping to set a new world record.





					www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 16, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> A bonanza of sausage dogs apparently!  who knew my little corner of the world had so many?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's a bad joke in there somewhere.  There has to be....


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 16, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> There's a bad joke in there somewhere.  There has to be....


I'm far too innocent to know what you mean!


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 16, 2022)

Gorby, actress Marsha Hunt, The Queen, and now Angela Lansbury.  Currently sitting in 4th place in my Celebrity Dead Pool league with ten points. October's been a good month for me.  Two points from taking the lead again.
Someone go check on David Attenborough and Henry Kissinger, will ya? How's Jerry Lee Lewis doing these days?


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 16, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> I'm far too innocent to know what you mean!



  
Curse my shop rat mentality.


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 16, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Gorby, actress Marsha Hunt, The Queen, and now Angela Lansbury.  Currently sitting in 4th place in my Celebrity Dead Pool league with ten points. October's been a good month for me.  Two points from taking the lead again.
> Someone go check on David Attenborough and Henry Kissinger, will ya? How's Jerry Lee Lewis doing these days?


What about Hagrid? He died too!


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 16, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> What about Hagrid? He died too!



Didn't have 'em on my list. 

Here's mine...

Angela Lansbury  (d. 10/11/22
Arthur “Rupe” Goldberg  (d. 4/15/22)
Barbara Walters 
Bob Barker 
Charlie Trippi 
Chris Snow 
David Attenborough
Dick Van Dyke
Dick Vitale 
Elizabeth II  (d. 9/8/22)
Frank Field
George Soros
Henry Kissinger
Jane “Nightbirde” Marczewski (d. 2/20/22)
Jeanette Lee 
Jerry Lee Lewis 
Jim Duggan 
Jimmy Carter
Joe “Exotic” Maldonado-Passage
Kane Takana  (d. 4/19/22)
Marcia “Marsha” Hunt (d. 9/6/22)
Mel “Brooks” Kaminsky
Mike Bossy  (d. 4/15/22)
Mikhail Gorbachev  (d. 8/30/22)
Norman Lear
Saturnino de la Fuente  (d. 1/18/22)
Steve “Mongo” McMichael
Thelma Sutcliffe  (d. 1/17/22)
Tim J. Keller
Tina Turner


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 16, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Didn't have 'em on my list.
> 
> Here's mine...
> 
> ...


Thought Van Dyke was already dead!


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 16, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> Thought Van Dyke was already dead!



Nope. Quite the popular pick in our group/game. Bob Barker is the top choice. 52 out of 73 players have him. Jimmy Carter, Kissinger, the Queen, and Dick Van Dyke rounded off the top five popular picks.


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 18, 2022)

Now there's a panther in England  https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/23054715.footage-panther-prowling-warrington-night/


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 18, 2022)

Went to take a test drive of a new car. It’s cold and rainy here, and the sales person was less than enthused. Come to find out, today’s his last day on the job.


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 18, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Went to take a test drive of a new car. It’s cold and rainy here, and the sales person was less than enthused. Come to find out, today’s his last day on the job.


Your current car is heartbroken!  (I'm teasing! It's nice. Did you get it?)


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 18, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> Your current car is heartbroken!  (I'm teasing! It's nice. Did you get it?)



We’re coming back to look at it later in the week. Mine is on borrowed time. Rusting off the frame, some engine and starter issues. It might last the winter, but I’m not chancing it. I bought it new in 04.


----------



## Joker (Oct 19, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> We’re coming back to look at it later in the week. Mine is on borrowed time. Rusting off the frame, some engine and starter issues. It might last the winter, but I’m not chancing it. I bought it new in 04.



Clearly not a Honda then


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 19, 2022)

Joker said:


> Clearly not a Honda then


2004 Civic


----------



## Joker (Oct 19, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> 2004 Civic



_gasp_

BLASPHEMER!!!


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 19, 2022)

Joker said:


> _gasp_
> 
> BLASPHEMER!!!


What car would you have?  

I want an electric convertible beetle in pastel pink or sunshine yellow  Failing that, an electric sporty looking number


----------



## Joker (Oct 19, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> What car would you have?
> 
> I want an electric convertible beetle in pastel pink or sunshine yellow  Failing that, an electric sporty looking number



Well, I'm dailying a 2000 Civic right now. I love it, but it's not in the best condition and I'd really love a 2022 Civic because it's got that retro look from the 90s.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 19, 2022)

Joker said:


> Well, I'm dailying a 2000 Civic right now. I love it, but it's not in the best condition and I'd really love a 2022 Civic because it's got that retro look from the 90s.



The fact that Civics drink oil after 100k is keeping me from buying another.other than that, I loved it. Still not my favorite, but it’s been the one I had the longest. 
Harder to get a manual transmission here in the US. I think automatics are so damn awkward.


----------



## Bloggsworth (Oct 19, 2022)

Liz Truss - Nuff said...


----------



## Joker (Oct 19, 2022)

Bloggsworth said:


> Liz Truss - Nuff said...



Only 30% of Tories even like her!


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 19, 2022)

Bloggsworth said:


> Liz Truss - Nuff said...


Truer words have not been spoken! We'd have been better staying with Johnson!


----------



## bdcharles (Oct 19, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> Truer words have not been spoken! We'd have been better staying with Johnson!


Isn't he in the running to take over again from Truss?

The Tories have been in power for 12 years. I worked out that the functional life of either of the main parties in the UK is 12 to 13 years, at which point they fall apart, go chuntering through prime ministers like a kid eating raisins and generally lampooning themselves out of office. Time to start their decade-and-a-bit in the wilderness, I think. Maybe Starmer will do something Blairite soon.


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 19, 2022)

bdcharles said:


> Isn't he in the running to take over again from Truss?
> 
> The Tories have been in power for 12 years. I worked out that the functional life of either of the main parties in the UK is 12 to 13 years, at which point they fall apart, go chuntering through prime ministers like a kid eating raisins and generally lampooning themselves out of office. Time to start their decade-and-a-bit in the wilderness, I think. Maybe Starmer will do something Blairite soon.



One can only hope we'll be rid of those despots very soon! Tories don't care if you've not got millions in the bank. They're all corrupt too.


----------



## indianroads (Oct 19, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> The fact that Civics drink oil after 100k is keeping me from buying another.other than that, I loved it. Still not my favorite, but it’s been the one I had the longest.
> Harder to get a manual transmission here in the US. I think automatics are so damn awkward.


Three on the tree is an anti-theft device.


----------



## Joker (Oct 19, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Three on the tree is an anti-theft device.



Obviously the S2000 has more gears than that, but it's why I'm not too worried about anyone stealing it either. And if they did, they'd short-shift it to death.


----------



## Arsenex (Oct 19, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Three on the tree is an anti-theft device.


My 67 Ranger was a 3-speed on the column. It was okay for driving around town. Sucked for drag racing though.


----------



## Arsenex (Oct 19, 2022)

Had a 3:25 9" rear axle but low gears in the transmision. Topped out at about 100 mph even with a 352ci. Was decently fast for a truck, but the 3-speed didn't help.  My 67 Fairlane GTA was much better.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 19, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Three on the tree is an anti-theft device.



5 on the floor


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 19, 2022)

Scored again in Celebrity Dead Pool with HOF football player Charley Trippi. I’m now in 3rd.

Someone go check on Henry Kissinger…


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 19, 2022)

Someone stole my forklift last night. They drove it to the other end of the shop.
So I’m walking through the shop looking for it getting “you’re getting warmer” and “you’re getting colder” texts to my work phone as I go.

Good times, good times.


----------



## indianroads (Oct 19, 2022)

The column shift was put there so you could shift faster with less time with your hands off the steering wheel.

According to my father (raised in Detroit pre-WW2) the 4 on the floor was called the cop-a-feel because you could _mistakenly_ feel your dates leg.


----------



## Joker (Oct 20, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> 5 on the floor



It's 5 on the drive, you old fool!


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 20, 2022)

Joker said:


> It's 5 on the drive, you old fool!



I don't believe everything that's told to me.


----------



## JBF (Oct 20, 2022)

I used to work at a museum which housed, among other things, rather sizable collection of odd little Swedish cars.  

One of their quirks (of which there were) many was that until 1967 their powerplant was a two-stroke three-cylinder four-on-the-column which would freewheel (and sounded about half whoopie cushion and half popcorn machine).  No need to clutch once you were rolling in first.  Let off the gas, pop it in the next notch, and touch off again.  

I still want one.


----------



## Arsenex (Oct 20, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Someone stole my forklift last night. They drove it to the other end of the shop.
> So I’m walking through the shop looking for it getting “you’re getting warmer” and “you’re getting colder” texts to my work phone as I go.
> 
> Good times, good times.


Once upon a time I worked in a factory that made potato chip bags. The paper would come in on 3,000 lb rolls. A forklift operator would grab a roll off the truck (big clamping mechanism) and snake his way through the warehouse to where they were stored until use. He had a bit of a lead foot at times. He was lifting a roll as he was turning into a row to stack it on top, about 20 ft up. Anyway, his right tire caught the edge of a pallet and boom, he tipped over. Sounded like a bomb going off. Somehow he wasn't crushed under his lift. Minor damage to the paper roll. None to the forklift. We used another to right that one and everyone went about their day. I'm sure it was never reported above our manager or to OSHA.


----------



## indianroads (Oct 20, 2022)

JBF said:


> I used to work at a museum which housed, among other things, rather sizable collection of odd little Swedish cars.
> 
> One of their quirks (of which there were) many was that until 1967 their powerplant was a two-stroke three-cylinder four-on-the-column which would freewheel (and sounded about half whoopie cushion and half popcorn machine).  No need to clutch once you were rolling in first.  Let off the gas, pop it in the next notch, and touch off again.
> 
> I still want one.


I want one too.


----------



## JBF (Oct 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I want one too.


Book III will have one, albeit in different colors and not so shiny.


----------



## indianroads (Oct 20, 2022)

My dream car - but I'd prefer the 53 model with the cool porthole.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 20, 2022)

JBF said:


> Book III will have one, albeit in different colors and not so shiny.
> 
> View attachment 29678



Book III will have me stealing that, albeit different colors and not so shiny. Remember, my name has two A's, not two R's. I'm a safe aggressive driver, so keep that in mind in the get-away. Thanks, buddy.


----------



## JBF (Oct 20, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Book III will have me stealing that, albeit different colors and not so shiny. Remember, my name has two A's, not two R's. I'm a safe aggressive driver, so keep that in mind in the get-away. Thanks, buddy.



Be careful.  A lawnmower engine is a big step up from a silent-death fork-machine.

Of note to anybody interested, the car pictured is a Saab 96 rally variant.  That specific vehicle took gold in the British 1960 Royal Auto Club rally, driven by Swedish legend Erik Carlsson.  It disappeared a few years after; it was eventually discovered in a barn in Minnesota around 1990 by an enthusiast - ironically - wanting to build a replica RAC rally car.  He paid $400 and didn’t sort out the car’s history until later.

Apocryphally, the Brits were upset at losing to a foreign darkhorse in ‘60 and told Carlsson he had to win two years running to get the cup. He ran (and won) again in ‘61 and they said it took three. When he won the _next _year they just stopped answering his calls altogether.


----------



## Mullanphy (Oct 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Pronouns are a big deal here in Colorado, and of course kids are taking it to an extreme that's kinda funny.
> At a local school a 4th grader objected when his teacher did not use his preferred pronoun... which, as it turned out was 'Banana-Cat'. That was his pronoun and so the teacher had to use it due to school policy. Other kids took it up, and soon the classroom was full of kids meaowing like cats and and barking like dogs.



Probably be a quieter room if the kids sounded like bananas instead of critters.  

If someone has a preferred pronoun, there is nothing wrong with using it, but when did "banana-cat" become a pronoun?


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 21, 2022)

What grinds my gears?
People who gripe about things on a thread called _What Really Grinds Your Gears?_.

Wait…. Dang it.


----------



## RGS (Oct 21, 2022)

My dream car. And yes, it's street legal.









						This is a new, road-going 1960s V12 Le Mans car: the LM69
					


Ecurie Ecosse pays respect to the Big Jag XJ13 with this V12 racer





					www.topgear.com


----------



## Joker (Oct 21, 2022)

RGS said:


> My dream car. And yes, it's street legal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now that's a man's car.


----------



## Cornelius Coburn (Oct 21, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## Arsenex (Oct 21, 2022)

RGS said:


> My dream car. And yes, it's street legal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My dad's first car was a '38 Lincoln Zephyr V12. He said it used more oil than gas.


----------



## indianroads (Oct 23, 2022)

60+ MPH winds last night - all night - today 40+ MPH wind with rain added.
I have a writers guild meeting tonight, hopefully the foul weather won't keep people home.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 23, 2022)

indianroads said:


> 60+ MPH winds last night - all night - today 40+ MPH wind with rain added.
> I have a writers guild meeting tonight, hopefully the foul weather won't keep people home.



No two wheel pony ride, I assume....


----------



## Moon Child (Oct 31, 2022)

This is in Wales, not England (where I live) but it's still part of the UK and is very cool so thought I'd share 









						Incredible prehistoric forest re-emerges on Welsh beach
					


'You should look at them while you can before they disappear'





					www.walesonline.co.uk


----------



## impr (Oct 31, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Pronouns are a big deal here in Colorado, and of course kids are taking it to an extreme that's kinda funny.
> At a local school a 4th grader objected when his teacher did not use his preferred pronoun... which, as it turned out was 'Banana-Cat'. That was his pronoun and so the teacher had to use it due to school policy. Other kids took it up, and soon the classroom was full of kids meaowing like cats and and barking like dogs.


This furries-in-schools myth is getting out of hand. There have been no substantiated cases of children identifying as animals significantly disrupting schools. Of course, make a big enough media fuss about an imaginary phenomenon and some enterprising twelve year old will decide to try it just to get a laugh out of the other students. However, that's not the same thing as schools and teachers being systematically required to accommodate animal identifying students. There are no legal protections in the US for humans that identify as animals and schools are not required to accommodate that identification, whether through using specific pronouns, providing litter boxes, or any other means.

This myth makes an excellent story, and I'm all for telling funny and entertaining stories, but we need to be clear that they are stories. We're in the middle of a school board race here and, no joke, one of the leading candidate's entire platform is protecting our schools from the perils of gender diverse youth in the classroom. We're one of the poorest counties in the state, with one of the worst school systems, and our school outcomes have been rapidly worsening in recent years. Having tampons in the "boys" room, or a person who was not born with a uterus on the "women's" soccer team is hardly our biggest problem, even if I agreed that they're problems at all. However, hype and fearmongering using false or misleading stories like the furries-in-schools myth has persuaded an astounding proportion of our town that this is the most important issue at the moment. Stories have power, we should know that as writers, so please think deeply about the stories you choose to share.

I recognize that this is not a political debate forum, and I am not asking for this to become a debate. Rather, I'm hoping to provoke a little thought about the stories we tell and how we do so. If you read this and don't agree with me, that's great. I appreciate you taking the time to read and consider this perspective. If reading this raises some questions for you, I hope you will choose to explore them further. If you already agree, that's great too, but you're not really who I'm talking to . The world in general and the internet in particular have a terrible tendency to facilitate only talking with people we already agree with. I'm glad this is a space where I can interact with folks with different viewpoints from me, whether that's about politics or the oxford comma .

Sources:








						Ganahl Falsely Claims That Kids Are 'Identifying as Cats ... All Over Colorado & Schools Are Tolerating It'
					


University of Colorado Regent and Colorado gubernatorial candidate Heidi Ganahl is the latest Republican to repeat outrageous and thoroughly debunked claims about furries in public schools. “Not many people know...





					coloradotimesrecorder.com
				











						Fact Check-No evidence that U.S. schoolchildren are self-identifying as animals and disrupting classrooms
					


In a clip from ‘What is a Woman?’, a documentary by right-wing commentator Matt Walsh, interviewee Sara Stockton, a family therapist based in New York, says schoolchildren are self-identifying as animals and disrupting classrooms.





					www.reuters.com
				











						Fact Check: Was Teacher Fired for Not Meowing Back at 'Cat' Student?
					


A substitute teacher's TikTok went viral after she told a story about a supposed encounter with a student.





					www.newsweek.com


----------



## Foxee (Oct 31, 2022)

My son was suspended from school for three days for barking a greeting at a 'furry' student because he thought it was funny. Fact-check this with me. I'll give you an earful.


----------



## indianroads (Oct 31, 2022)

A father and his fifteen year old daughter were on the news the other day - apparently a biological boy (with his junk still intact) decided to go into the girls locker room and watch them change. The school didn't do anything because the kid was identifying as a girl.
The father is suing the school board.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Oct 31, 2022)

indianroads said:


> The school didn't do anything because the kid was identifying as a girl.
> The father is suing the school board.



I’ve got a new identity for that kid…. Comes with a unique pronoun, too.


----------



## JBF (Oct 31, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> I’ve got a new identity for that kid…. Comes with a unique pronoun, too.



This reminds me of a really good story I can't tell in polite company.


----------



## impr (Oct 31, 2022)

Foxee said:


> My son was suspended from school for three days for barking a greeting at a 'furry' student because he thought it was funny. Fact-check this with me. I'll give you an earful.





indianroads said:


> A father and his fifteen year old daughter were on the news the other day - apparently a biological boy (with his junk still intact) decided to go into the girls locker room and watch them change. The school didn't do anything because the kid was identifying as a girl.
> The father is suing the school board.


One of the things I liked about this forum when I found it was the rule against debate. I love a good discussion where everyone is putting serious thought into both the points made by others and the soundness of our own positions. However, debate as defined in the WF rules (can't find them for an exact quote right now, but something close to: back and forth arguments with the primary goal of winning points) tends to just wind up with everyone digging deeper into our trenches. Trenches are a pretty cruddy vantage point from which to even see other perspectives, let alone seriously consider or learn to respectfully disagree with them.

Both in respect for the forum rules and because I have no interest in digging trenches, I'm not going to put forward a counter argument for your points here. Foxee, I am sad that your son had that experience. If you would be interested in sharing the details of what occurred, I would be interested in listening. Feel free to PM me. Learning about how school policies elsewhere have been enforced and how they have affected students is very helpful to our work advocating for policies that facilitate all students feeling welcome at a school. indianroads, I am sad that that girl had an experience which I imagine felt objectifying and extremely uncomfortable. Without hearing her own words, I can only guess at her emotions. However, as someone who has been sexually assaulted, the emotions I listed are ones that I can imagine all too easily and would not wish on anyone. Of course, I would not wish them on the transgender girl described in that story either. I suspect that you and I disagree on the definition of "boy" as well as several other points which lead us to come to quite different conclusions about the best solution to situations like the one described. Again, I would be happy to discuss further by PM if you'd be interested.

And now folks, back to your regularly scheduled humor thread! Sorry about the tangent...


----------



## Foxee (Oct 31, 2022)

impr said:


> One of the things I liked about this forum when I found it was the rule against debate.
> 
> And now folks, back to your regularly scheduled humor thread! Sorry about the tangent...


Actually, it's a detour. If you'd like to discuss something as a debate, there is a forum for that. I haven't heard about it for a while but I imagine it's still there. Just ask Pip for a ticket to the Dante forum.


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## impr (Oct 31, 2022)

Foxee said:


> Actually, it's a detour. If you'd like to discuss something as a debate, there is a forum for that. I haven't heard about it for a while but I imagine it's still there. Just ask Pip for a ticket to the Dante forum.


Debate as it's defined in the WF forum rules? I'd rather not for the avoiding-digging-trenches reasons described in my post above. Serious discussion in a setting where we don't have to worry so much about getting close to crossing the debate line/derailing an existing thread? That I would be open to if you would like to talk further on this topic.

I have no burning need to discuss this further, I get quite enough politics in my offline life. However, I am interested in learning more about your perspective if you also want to engage in learning about mine. Even if neither of us changes our mind at all, I'd consider it a win if we can increase our understanding of and respect for the other's viewpoint at least a little. Either way, I'll drop PiP a line about access to the Dante forum so it can be an option if needed.


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## indianroads (Oct 31, 2022)

I dislike all politics. As long as people aren’t hurting others, they’re fine in my opinion.


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## Foxee (Oct 31, 2022)

impr said:


> Debate as it's defined in the WF forum rules? I'd rather not for the avoiding-digging-trenches reasons described in my post above.


All I'm saying is that if you'd like to debate and toss around fact checkers, go to the Dante forum. I've not asked for a ticket because I am here to discuss writing and debate is, unfortunately, all pretty much just like Facebook anymore. I don't like it there and I don't do it here. I simply wanted you to know that there are facts being lived by actual people...not just opinions.

And that is enough for me on the subject.


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## impr (Nov 1, 2022)

Foxee said:


> debate is, unfortunately, all pretty much just like Facebook anymore.


That's depressing. I guess growing up queer in a very conservative family (think rural Texan evangelical) forced us to learn to have respectful conversations in spite of ideological differences. The alternative was to let those differences tear our family apart. Sadly, that seems to be the outcome for a lot of families so I guess I won the lottery when it comes to my relatives.



> I simply wanted you to know that there are facts being lived by actual people...not just opinions.



I am acutely and painfully aware of the lived experiences of actual people. Two decades ago, I was a genderqueer child who changed in the bathroom rather than face the girls in the locker room. To be clear, I was born with ovaries, they just didn't want a "dirty lesbian" changing with them. I'm not a lesbian, but that was the only term they knew to describe someone that looked male but had biologically female anatomy. That transgender child from the news story indianroads mentioned, they're an actual person too, and they're caught in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation where they're not welcome in either locker room. My roommate's twelve year old is also an actual person, a child who should be enjoying her tweenage years and instead was sent home from school a few months ago after her teacher became concerned that she might be planning to kill herself. Turns out, she'd made the mistake of mentioning to a classmate that she had a crush on a female anime character, the result was several months of intense bullying which culminated in the "I'd rather kill myself" comment when asked why she wasn't going out to recess.

I haven't been refraining from giving lived examples because I'm short on examples to share. I've refrained from giving them because trading oversimplified versions of complex real events back and forth won't do any of us any good. The details of specific events can teach us useful lessons, particularly when multiple perspectives on the same event are considered. Well gathered statistics can also paint a useful image of an issue as a whole. But pithy summaries cramming one person's lived experience into a couple of sentences? Those kinds of summaries can use the same events to tell vastly different stories and support vastly different agendas depending on where you focus. Nor does one event a pattern make. A teenager died from drinking too much water several years ago. It's a sad story, but it's not a basis for removing water fountains from schools because there is no epidemic of water poisoning among teens. There's no epidemic of furries in schools either. There is a well documented epidemic of suicide among queer youth. Something else that's well documented: the threefold increased rate of suicide among queer youth as compared to straight cisgender youth disappears if you only analyze data from youth who families and peers are supportive of their gender and sexuality. In short, it's not being queer that kills kids, it's being singled out and stigmatized for it.

As I wind up this post and realize how emotionally draining it has been to write, I'm wondering if I also refrain from sharing these stories because it hurts. Whether I'm remembering the harsh parts of being twelve myself, or sitting with my roommate's twelve year old as she was unable to imagine a future where she could feel safe at school again, those memories are painful. I almost didn't write a reply at all, it would have been easier to leave this conversation lie. However, you make a valuable point in your comment about folks needing to know that "there are facts being lived by actual people." Stories are powerful.

And that's also enough for me on the subject.


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## impr (Nov 1, 2022)

Back to the humor angle on this thread, did anyone else notice that almost the entire detour about furries in this thread has been had by people with animal pictures as avatars?


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## indianroads (Nov 1, 2022)

impr said:


> Back to the humor angle on this thread, did anyone else notice that almost the entire detour about furries in this thread has been had by people with animal pictures as avatars?


Well, if you’re going to be a writer of merit, you MUST get a cat. The guy in my avatar is Pilot, he oversees my work and occasionally offers suggestions. I’m unsure how giving him kitty treats helps build my stories, but I never argue with him.


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## Moon Child (Nov 1, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Well, if you’re going to be a writer of merit, you MUST get a cat. The guy in my avatar is Pilot, he oversees my work and occasionally offers suggestions. I’m unsure how giving him kitty treats helps build my stories, but I never argue with him.



It's a process, darling. The kitty always knows best! Plus, he is cute


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## VRanger (Nov 1, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Well, if you’re going to be a writer of merit, you MUST get a cat. The guy in my avatar is Pilot, he oversees my work and occasionally offers suggestions. I’m unsure how giving him kitty treats helps build my stories, but I never argue with him.


I've got FOUR cats. But they're all semi-feral and they live in a "cat house" in my garage. Interesting that this came up, because I'm currently writing first person from a cat's POV.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 1, 2022)

My cat, Nittany, isn't mine, but he is. 
Long story shortened for TV... Youngest step-sprout left her baby daddy due to his drug addiction. She was pregnant at time, needed place to stay while about to have kid and taking on-line courses for her college degree. So Wifey let her move in with us from across the state. And she brought her two cats with her. This was not quite six months after my cat/feline daughter died. I wasn't ready to have A cat back in my life, let alone TWO of them, but hey sure whatever.
Step-sprouts cats loved living with us, although they terrorized the place. Six months after, sprout of step-sprout came into the world, step-sprout found place back in her town, got her entourage and split. The problem being is that her youngest cat Nittany, hated the new place and peed all over it. Wifey and I went to visit, and when we got there, Nittany jumped into my lap and pretty much didn't leave the entire time I was there. (The ONLY time he's ever done that,by the way).
Wifey decided we are semi-permanently cat-sitting "The Nit" for step-sprout. He's been here 4 and a half years, and is living his best life of telling us when he wants to eat, making as much noise as possible using the cat boxes in the basement, sitting at the dinner table with us whether we give hin scraps to eat or not, and enjoying "power naps" with his 'bro' (me) on the living room floor before I head in to work at night. He hasn't been a terror like he was before when he lived here with the other cat (which was his mother), which is nice. 
His favorite thing is to watch the birds in the front yard, and he as the most unique way to sit. I have my grandfather's old chair by the window facing the feeders. He'll plop on his back and sitting a paw on the arm rest and his head against the back of the chair like he's a person and just watch the birds. He sits in that chair more than we do, and it's my favorite seat in the house.


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## Cornelius Coburn (Nov 1, 2022)

Deleted


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 1, 2022)

Cornelius Coburn said:


> I've always understood "FOUR" to be a limit when it came to cats; I suppose with one or two being the minimum.



I know a few lonely women at work at would like to discuss the "limit" of cats. And I'm sure they'd be willing to discuss a few other things with you as well.  May The Force be with you, because God will be running and  screaming for his life from that situation. And he'll take every other higher deity with him.


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## Foxee (Nov 1, 2022)

VRanger said:


> I've got FOUR cats. But they're all semi-feral and they live in a "cat house" in my garage. Interesting that this came up, because I'm currently writing first person from a cat's POV.


I want to read this.

I also have been chosen by a family of semi-feral cats to be their slave. I have found myself buying cat food and now I've even been looking at catnip mousies. Planning to build a little insulated kitty house for them.

Not sure who I am anymore. Dog isn't sure, either.


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## Matchu (Nov 1, 2022)

deleted, not suitable


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## indianroads (Nov 1, 2022)

VRanger said:


> I've got FOUR cats. But they're all semi-feral and they live in a "cat house" in my garage. Interesting that this came up, because I'm currently writing first person from a cat's POV.


We have four cats as well. It used to be six, but two of our older gentlemen passed on over the summer.
In my novel Inception,the first scene is written from a cat’s pov.

Wasn’t Dean Koontz that occasionally wrote from a dogs pov?


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## Joker (Nov 1, 2022)

indianroads said:


> We have four cats as well. It used to be six, but two of our older gentlemen passed on over the summer.
> In my novel Inception,the first scene is written from a cat’s pov.
> 
> Wasn’t Dean Koontz that occasionally wrote from a dogs pov?



Snow Crash has a cyber-dog's POV twice.


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## Parabola (Nov 1, 2022)

indianroads said:


> We have four cats as well. It used to be six, but two of our older gentlemen passed on over the summer.
> In my novel Inception,the first scene is written from a cat’s pov.
> 
> Wasn’t Dean Koontz that occasionally wrote from a dogs pov?



Not sure about Koontz, but fairly sure King did it in Cujo.


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## VRanger (Nov 1, 2022)

Foxee said:


> I want to read this.


Sample - Last thing I wrote before I crashed early this morning:

I jumped to the sill and squeezed back through the sash opening onto the kitchen counter. Miranda sprawled backwards in a chair. Considering her posture, I knew she’d wake with a crick in her neck. It’s difficult for cats to manage that but I did it once. I remembered it didn’t feel good, so I tried to wake Miranda.

I tried direct thought to thought but felt nothing returned. I nudged her chin with my nose. I stood on her lap with my feet on her breastbone and licked her nose until it turned red. I jumped to the top of the cupboard and nudged her favorite curio … dropping from a bounce on the counter to a crash on the floor. Nothing.

Finally, in a fit of desperation, I curled up in her lap and slept.



Foxee said:


> I also have been chosen by a family of semi-feral cats to be their slave. I have found myself buying cat food and now I've even been looking at catnip mousies. Planning to build a little insulated kitty house for them.
> 
> Not sure who I am anymore. Dog isn't sure, either.


We're currently at three dogs. Over the last three years we've lost three of our four toy poodles to age, but picked up two strays dumped in the area who wandered into my yard. The latest stray, possibly a Jack Russel/Min Pin mix, likes to go over to the cat house and try to touch noses with the kitties. The other two dogs are oblivious to them. The cats will cooperate with Max. They probably think he's small enough to eat if they got the chance.


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## VRanger (Nov 1, 2022)

Joker said:


> Snow Crash has a cyber-dog's POV twice.


I only read one Koontz (The Watcher). He had a really smart dog in it. I'm not sure if he wrote PoV but he certainly followed it solo.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 2, 2022)

Double shooting eight blocks away. Might be connected to drive by four houses down from it two nights ago. 
Who knows.


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## Matchu (Nov 2, 2022)

There's a storm outside.  I left work at 8am & had my two hours sleep.  Today is a kind of madness day, I'll have some alcohol in a couple of hours and then back on to day shifts tomorrow.  I have to 'kick ass' tomorrow or play my part, at least.  Not really enjoying 'management' or being serious all of the time.  the alternative is worse.

My wink is also getting worse as the years roll on.  I did internet research on winking.  it said men who wink are sexual pervert deviants, I'm winking even more, passing anybody in any corridor. I'm beginning to make myself sick, so revolting, need course therapy for reprogramming.


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## Moon Child (Nov 2, 2022)

Matchu said:


> There's a storm outside.  I left work at 8am & had my two hours sleep.  Today is a kind of madness day, I'll have some alcohol in a couple of hours and then back on to day shifts tomorrow.  I have to 'kick ass' tomorrow or play my part, at least.  Not really enjoying 'management' or being serious all of the time.  the alternative is worse.
> 
> My wink is also getting worse as the years roll on.  I did internet research on winking.  it said men who wink are sexual pervert deviants, I'm winking even more, passing anybody in any corridor. I'm beginning to make myself sick, so revolting, need course therapy for reprogramming.


Another label to add to the collection, pervert!


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 4, 2022)

Two shootings on the same block since Saturday night. Four houses and four days apart. Neither related so far, according to news reports. 1 dirtnapper, 1 critical, and 1 with minor injuries. We could hear the gun fire from here. 
Surreal, man.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 11, 2022)

Electric cars are changing the automotive landscape, whether you like it or not. They hauled us all up front to make a MAJOR announcement. We won a HUGE contract to build a particular part for electric cars. They'll be replacing the making of similar parts we make for internal combustion vehicles. It's a huge eight digit investment from our parent companies with some help from state-level and local government incentives. This means that we'll all have job here for decades to come.

The bad news for me is this. Because of the design differences between ICE's and E-vehicles, the manufacturing process is totally new and night-and-day different for the part we make. The machining and assembly process of one cannot work for the other. And with the forecasted reduction of orders of traditional ICE vehicles, it means there's a point where it's more cost efficient to import the parts from outside sources. These lines will start to cease operation as early as this coming April. As they shut down, the people from those areas will be staffed in other areas were there's openings. My job, which I have loved for the past seven years, will probably be phased out by the end of next year. But more than likely it'll be by June or July.

By March I'll have to figure out my next course of action at the company. With the projected retirements and turn-over rate, I should be able to land in another good situation.


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## Moon Child (Nov 11, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Electric cars are changing the automotive landscape, whether you like it or not. They hauled us all up front to make a MAJOR announcement. We won a HUGE contract to build a particular part for electric cars. They'll be replacing the making of similar parts we make for internal combustion vehicles. It's a huge eight digit investment from our parent companies with some help from state-level and local government incentives. This means that we'll all have job here for decades to come.
> 
> The bad news for me is this. Because of the design differences between ICE's and E-vehicles, the manufacturing process is totally new and night-and-day different for the part we make. The machining and assembly process of one cannot work for the other. And with the forecasted reduction of orders of traditional ICE vehicles, it means there's a point where it's more cost efficient to import the parts from outside sources. These lines will start to cease operation as early as this coming April. As they shut down, the people from those areas will be staffed in other areas were there's openings. My job, which I have loved for the past seven years, will probably be phased out by the end of next year. But more than likely it'll be by June or July.
> 
> By March I'll have to figure out my next course of action at the company. With the projected retirements and turn-over rate, I should be able to land in another good situation.


just remember, darling, that while one door closes another opens. This new opportunity could well be something amazing or lead to the something amazing.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 11, 2022)

Moon Child said:


> just remember, darling, that while one door closes another opens. This new opportunity could well be something amazing or lead to the something amazing.


At the very least, gives me more material and fodder for more books, young lady.


A.C.


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## Moon Child (Nov 11, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> At the very least, gives me more material and fodder for more books, young lady.
> 
> 
> A.C.


Indeed it does, darling


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## Joker (Nov 11, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Electric cars are changing the automotive landscape, whether you like it or not. They hauled us all up front to make a MAJOR announcement. We won a HUGE contract to build a particular part for electric cars. They'll be replacing the making of similar parts we make for internal combustion vehicles. It's a huge eight digit investment from our parent companies with some help from state-level and local government incentives. This means that we'll all have job here for decades to come.
> 
> The bad news for me is this. Because of the design differences between ICE's and E-vehicles, the manufacturing process is totally new and night-and-day different for the part we make. The machining and assembly process of one cannot work for the other. And with the forecasted reduction of orders of traditional ICE vehicles, it means there's a point where it's more cost efficient to import the parts from outside sources. These lines will start to cease operation as early as this coming April. As they shut down, the people from those areas will be staffed in other areas were there's openings. My job, which I have loved for the past seven years, will probably be phased out by the end of next year. But more than likely it'll be by June or July.
> 
> By March I'll have to figure out my next course of action at the company. With the projected retirements and turn-over rate, I should be able to land in another good situation.



_screaming internally_


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## indianroads (Nov 11, 2022)

I'm not a fan of electric vehicles.
I wonder if they'll build more nuclear power plants to to power them?


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 11, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I'm not a fan of electric vehicles.
> I wonder if they'll build more nuclear power plants to to power them?



Driving an electric forklift every day, you’d think I’d be doing cartwheels ‘cross the floor about them. But having gone through two batteries in 7 years (gotta love ‘dirty power’), seeing the effects of daily battery maintenance, and understanding that the car battery is pretty much _the_ engine hasn’t made me wanna put my foot thru the floorboard. 
I’m not sold on the longevity of the current technology, and that’s one of the reasons I went conventional/traditional with the new car. Come talk to me in 2035.


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## Arsenex (Nov 11, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Driving an electric forklift every day, you’d think I’d be doing cartwheels ‘cross the floor about them. But having gone through two batteries in 7 years (gotta love ‘dirty power’), seeing the effects of daily battery maintenance, and understanding that the car battery is pretty much _the_ engine hasn’t made me wanna put my foot thru the floorboard.
> I’m not sold on the longevity of the current technology, and that’s one of the reasons I went conventional/traditional with the new car. Come talk to me in 2035.


Electrics need double the battery range, 5x the charging speed, and 1/4 the battery cost to be comparably usable by the masses. We are at least twenty years from that. Gonna be a lot of pain coming in the next five years. ICE engines will probably have an extra use tax to help offset the coming mileage taxes on the electrics. Much of our road money comes from gas taxes. No way politicians are gonna let all these electric cars continue to drive around on the roads for free. And with your power bill double from what it was a couple years ago, you can expect to be paying just as much to fuel your electric as you did your ICE—comparing prices to when we were allowed to produce our own energy a couple years ago.

Chevy and Ford both have electric pickups coming out that boast about 240 miles on a charge. Only problem is when you hook up a trailer that range drops to 100 miles or less. Imagine that nice long road trip where you have to spend more time charging than driving.


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## indianroads (Nov 11, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Driving an electric forklift every day, you’d think I’d be doing cartwheels ‘cross the floor about them. But having gone through two batteries in 7 years (gotta love ‘dirty power’), seeing the effects of daily battery maintenance, and understanding that the car battery is pretty much _the_ engine hasn’t made me wanna put my foot thru the floorboard.
> I’m not sold on the longevity of the current technology, and that’s one of the reasons I went conventional/traditional with the new car. Come talk to me in 2035.


I'm not impressed with the driving range of electric vehicles. Electric motorcycles have a range of about 100 miles (last I checked). Cars do a little better... IF you're not towing a trailer. I dunno what they're gonna do about long distance big rigs.

I think electric vehicles are a neat idea, but the technology has a long way to go before I consider it viable. Lithium batteries can't be recycled (like the blades of the windmills BTW), cost of batteries is another issue, and also how are we going to charge up these vehicles? The power company is already talking about brown-outs this winter. Will we build more reactors? Who here is happy with Chernobyl in their backyard?

Yeah, ok. I get it, the planet is warning up due to a lot of reasons, CO2 being one of them. But I think the US has done it's part, and so we should be allowed to sit on our hands while China and India catch up. Maybe by then the technology will improve.


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## Arsenex (Nov 11, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I'm not impressed with the driving range of electric vehicles. Electric motorcycles have a range of about 100 miles (last I checked). Cars do a little better... IF you're not towing a trailer. I dunno what they're gonna do about long distance big rigs.
> 
> I think electric vehicles are a neat idea, but the technology has a long way to go before I consider it viable. Lithium batteries can't be recycled (like the blades of the windmills BTW), cost of batteries is another issue, and also how are we going to charge up these vehicles? The power company is already talking about brown-outs this winter. Will we build more reactors? Who here is happy with Chernobyl in their backyard.
> 
> Yeah, ok. I get it, the planet is warning up due to a lot of reasons, CO2 being one of them. But I think the US has done it's part, and so we should be allowed to sit on our hands while China and India catch up. Maybe by then the technology will improve.


Actually, here in the US our CO2 emissions are down 8% from 1990. All due to tech. China now produces double the CO2 as the US and India 1/2. The thing is, you can't realistically think about cutting CO2 emissions by 30% by 2030 (current goals) without giving up almost 30% of our world production of goods. Technology (electric cars...) will only account for a percent or two.

The sacred cow no one will talk about is world population growth. If you look at greeenhouse gas emissions per capita the numbers have stayed remarkably close to what they were 50 years ago. We've doubled our population and with that doubled our greenhouse gas emissions. Cutting back will only affect the fringe of those numbers. The thing that will have to give is the standard of living. Good times coming! Not.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 11, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Actually, here in the US our CO2 emissions are down 8% from 1990. All due to tech. China now produces double the CO2 as the US and India 1/2. The thing is, you can't realistically think about cutting CO2 emissions by 30% by 2030 (current goals) without giving up almost 30% of our world production of goods. Technology (electric cars...) will only account for a percent or two.
> 
> The sacred cow no one will talk about is world population growth. If you look at greeenhouse gas emissions per capita the numbers have stayed remarkably close to what they were 50 years ago. We've doubled our population and with that doubled our greenhouse gas emissions. Cutting back will only affect the fringe of those numbers. The thing that will have to give is the standard of living. Good times coming! Not.



We're starting to get political and soap-box-ish, but before the bosses come tap us and the shoulder and wag their fingers at us, I want to add a point that I don't think many - if any - are talking about. There's a boatload.. maybe a fleet-load.. of illegal deforestation going on in a lot of countries due to illegal drug and lumber industries. Why do they seem to be getting the free passes?


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## indianroads (Nov 11, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Actually, here in the US our CO2 emissions are down 8% from 1990. All due to tech. China now produces double the CO2 as the US and India 1/2. The thing is, you can't realistically think about cutting CO2 emissions by 30% by 2030 (current goals) without giving up almost 30% of our world production of goods. Technology (electric cars...) will only account for a percent or two.
> 
> The sacred cow no one will talk about is world population growth. If you look at greeenhouse gas emissions per capita the numbers have stayed remarkably close to what they were 50 years ago. We've doubled our population and with that doubled our greenhouse gas emissions. Cutting back will only affect the fringe of those numbers. The thing that will have to give is the standard of living. Good times coming! Not.


Sometimes it feels like a good thing to be an old fart (68 yo) without that many miles left on my clock.


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## Arsenex (Nov 11, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> We're starting to get political and soap-box-ish, but before the bosses come tap us and the shoulder and wag their fingers at us, I want to add a point that I don't think many - if any - are talking about. There's a boatload.. maybe a fleet-load.. of illegal deforestation going on in a lot of countries due to illegal drug and lumber industries. Why do they seem to be getting the free passes?


Follow the money. Look over here, don't look over there.


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## indianroads (Nov 11, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> We're starting to get political and soap-box-ish, but before the bosses come tap us and the shoulder and wag their fingers at us, I want to add a point that I don't think many - if any - are talking about. There's a boatload.. maybe a fleet-load.. of illegal deforestation going on in a lot of countries due to illegal drug and lumber industries. Why do they seem to be getting the free passes?


Yeah - humans are their own worst enemy.


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## Arsenex (Nov 11, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Sometimes it feels like a good thing to be an old fart (68 yo) without that many miles left on my clock.


Right behind you at 62. I figure I still got 30 years in me if the mountain dew doesn't kill me first.


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## indianroads (Nov 11, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Right behind you at 62. I figure I still got 30 years in me if the mountain dew doesn't kill me first.


I only want to live to be 78. Unfortunately though, my grandparents lived into their late 90s. My father smoked himself to death and my mother had a brain tumor, so I guess it could go either way.


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## Arsenex (Nov 11, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I only want to live to be 78. Unfortunately though, my grandparents lived into their late 90s. My father smoked himself to death and my mother had a brain tumor, so I guess it could go either way.


My grandparents were - grandfather 50 (dropped dead in the field behind his plow horse, his favorite food was opossum), grandmother 78 (some form of the big C), grandfather 60 (heart attack), grandmother 96 (old age), father 86 (complications from esophageal cancer, they baked his lungs during treatment), mother 78 (pancreatic cancer). Also have a brother at 52 (colon cancer), and a sister at 55 (breast cancer). We lived at Camp Lejeune from '63 to '65. I've already talked to the lawyers and they said, "Nope. Crazy isn't one of the things that's covered."


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## indianroads (Nov 11, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> My grandparents were - grandfather 50 (dropped dead in the field behind his plow horse, his favorite food was opossum), grandmother 78 (some form of the big C), grandfather 60 (heart attack), grandmother 96 (old age), father 86 (complications from esophageal cancer, they baked his lungs during treatment), mother 78 (pancreatic cancer). Also have a brother at 52 (colon cancer), and a sister at 55 (breast cancer). We lived at Camp Lejeune from '63 to '65. I've already talked to the lawyers and they said, "Nope. Crazy isn't one of the things that's covered."


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 15, 2022)

It's snowing.

It's.

Snowing.


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## Arsenex (Nov 15, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> It's snowing.
> 
> It's.
> 
> Snowing.


Heading for 87F here today and humid. Heading to the N. GA mountains Friday. 20s and 40s there. Will be quite the change.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 15, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Heading for 87F here today and humid. Heading to the N. GA mountains Friday. 20s and 40s there. Will be quite the change.



I'll be kinda sorta maybe down towards your neck of the woods in Feb. I believe you're up near Orlando. I'll be in Fort Myers. At least the parts that are above water.


A.C.


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## Arsenex (Nov 15, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> It's snowing.
> 
> It's.
> 
> Snowing.


Are you gonna have to put snow chains on your forklift?


----------



## Arsenex (Nov 15, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> I'll be kinda sorta maybe down towards your neck of the woods in Feb. I believe you're up near Orlando. I'll be in Fort Myers. At least the parts that are above water.
> 
> 
> A.C.


That's about 5 hours from us. Hope whoever you are visiting came through Ian okay.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 15, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Are you gonna have to put snow chains on your forklift?



True story. I had a driver who showed up three hours early for his window. Made him wait outside the gate. He decided to take a nap in his cab. I forgot he was there.  Literally five minutes before his window was up, Security called me, and asked if I was ready for him to come in.

Whoops.

I asked Security to go out and get him.They couldn't wake him. Long story short, I had to have our maintenance department plow a path out from where my desk/truck is, out to the back gate and then out to the road so I could drive out to wake him. That damn thing handled worse in the snow than it does in dirt. Slick tires didn't help matters. I'm just glad I didn't get it stuck. I'll NEVER drive a forklift in the snow again.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 15, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> That's about 5 hours from us. Hope whoever you are visiting came through Ian okay.



Pops wasn't there for Ian (he was here up north) but he was there for Nicole, and quite disappointed. His place in Fort Myers area survived with just the loss of his brand new flag pole.


----------



## Arsenex (Nov 15, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Pops wasn't there for Ian (he was here up north) but he was there for Nicole, and quite disappointed. His place in Fort Myers area survived with just the loss of his brand new flag pole.


Nicole was a lot of anticipation with little excitement during. Only two cans of yard debris whereas Ian was nine.


----------



## JBF (Nov 15, 2022)

There was a midair collision at a CAF airshow in Dallas this week.  Six people were killed and two WWII-vintage aircraft were completely destroyed.  The FAA's probably going to be looking at this one for a long time.  

It's rattled me a lot harder than I thought.


----------



## indianroads (Nov 15, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> It's snowing.
> 
> It's.
> 
> Snowing.


Yeah here too. Only about 2 inches at my house so far. I had to pick up my wife at DIA last night, and drove her home through a blizzard over the mountains.


----------



## Parabola (Nov 15, 2022)

I will shovel snow to guile's theme. It goes with everything.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 15, 2022)

Every single one of you will get a laugh out of this one. At work last night, I was showing a couple of newbies ('A' and 'B') how to operate a couple of the compactors in one of the area of the shop I'm responsible for. Another coworker ('C') comes down as I'm showing them. C's aware I'm writing a book, and from time to time will ask me how it's going. Tonight was one of those times. 'A' and 'B' are both impressed. Even more so when 'C' tells them that a lot of the material I plan to use is based off people and events that happened there at work. 'A' says that she's told that everyone who ever writes a book is a millionaire, and I need to hurry up and finish writing it so I can retire early and be rich and famous.

Oh, if it was that easy, right?


----------



## PrairieHostage (Nov 15, 2022)

Crazy stuff in my part of the world. Gonna bend that slightly to be crazy stuff in *my* world. 

I hired Man to install porcelain tile backsplash in the bathroom. Approx 24 SQ feet. His common law wife, Lady, showed up the first day and it took them 15 hours over the span of four days. I would have preferred two days but it's all good.

On the last day I noticed the lid of my toilet was damaged. Lady brought the wrong toilet lid and tried to convince me it would match. My toity is beige and the lid she brought was white as snow. Luckily American Standard covered a new one under warranty.

I could write a short story about Lady. I know more about her than I want to. She has PTSD, anxiety, and likes working with her hands to get her anger out  

Needless to say her grout work was sub par and I asked Man to fix it. He said it was her first time doing grout. They were at my house so many days, I felt I'd entered an alternative universe where I live with this couple forever, listening to Lady's mental health issues and watching Man fix Lady's mistakes.


----------



## Arsenex (Nov 15, 2022)

This one's for you, Aaron. You've probably seen it as it's been a round the block a few times. Not a fork lift, but a Scissor Lift.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 15, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> This one's for you, Aaron. You've probably seen it as it's been a round the block a few times. Not a fork lift, but a Scissor Lift.



Yes, I have. Absolute classic.


----------



## Sinister (Nov 16, 2022)

So...Andy Beshear, my Gov, pushed an executive order through that takes effect Jan 1st that legalized, to a limited degree, medical marijuana.  He did this after years of Kentucky hemming and hawing over the issue to the point that it is now only one of 12 states that still has criminalized all forms of the drug.

I'm a-political.  I don't care how you live.  I don't think morality can/should be regulated.  Don't come onto my property unless I invite you or know you.  And also, what the hell is wrong with American Health care?(That's rhetorical).  That's as far as I venture into hateful topics like Politics.  Marijuana is a complicated issue and I'm not invested in the topic enough to preach...but ironically my doctor has told me forever that he would put me on it in a heartbeat if it was legal.  Which, is alarming but no more alarming than having to take handfuls of SSRI's, anti-seizure medicines and antipsychotics.

Either way, I don't know if in my ramblings I came to a conclusion there?  I doubt it.  But that is, without a doubt, some crazy stuff that is happening in my part of the world.

-Sin


----------



## Joker (Nov 16, 2022)

Sinister said:


> So...Andy Beshear, my Gov, pushed an executive order through that takes effect Jan 1st that legalized, to a limited degree, medical marijuana.  He did this after years of Kentucky hemming and hawing over the issue to the point that it is now only one of 12 states that still has criminalized all forms of the drug.
> 
> I'm a-political.  I don't care how you live.  I don't think morality can/should be regulated.  Don't come onto my property unless I invite you or know you.  And also, what the hell is wrong with American Health care?(That's rhetorical).  That's as far as I venture into hateful topics like Politics.  Marijuana is a complicated issue and I'm not invested in the topic enough to preach...but ironically my doctor has told me forever that he would put me on it in a heartbeat if it was legal.  Which, is alarming but no more alarming than having to take handfuls of SSRI's, anti-seizure medicines and antipsychotics.
> 
> ...



Welcome to the libertarian club. We also have guns, gays and endless arguments about whether abortion violates the NAP.


----------



## Sinister (Nov 16, 2022)

Joker said:


> Welcome to the libertarian club. We also have guns, gays and endless arguments about whether abortion violates the NAP.


Yeah, exactly.  The only thing that kept me from identifying officially with libertarian club is that I'm non-confrontational and that label attracts attacks.  But yeah, do as many drugs as you want, leave my guns alone...  Good luck with it.  I'm a moral subjectivist.  Everyone is different and I don't express a right to tell people what's what.  Not my monkey.  Not my circus.

Big on Taoism.  The less you enforce and make rules, the less likely you'll need them.  At least that's been my experience.  Numerically-speaking, the more laws you have, the more law-breakers you have...the more money you have to spend to fight them...the more that encourages violence on both sides.  Systems are not simple and if you approach them with simple solutions(like straight outlawing them)...idk, I've only seen it complicate things.

-Sin


----------



## JBF (Nov 16, 2022)

Joker said:


> Welcome to the libertarian club. We also have guns, gays and endless arguments about whether abortion violates the NAP.



I tried being a libertarian once.  I liked it, somewhat...but a lot of weirdos* in that crowd.  Part of the trouble with the big-tent mentality, one could argue.








*one less since I registered with Rabid Procyon delegation.


----------



## bdcharles (Nov 16, 2022)

JBF said:


> I tried being a libertarian once.  I liked it, somewhat...but a lot of weirdos* in that crowd.  Part of the trouble with the big-tent mentality, one could argue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It took me nearly a minute before I stopped misreading that as _librarian_. Is it bad that I nodded sagely along for at least forty-five seconds?


----------



## Arsenex (Nov 16, 2022)

JBF said:


> *one less since I registered with Rabid Procyon delegation.


At least you aren't one of the Mephitidae consorts.


----------



## JBF (Nov 16, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> At least you aren't one of the Mephitidae consorts.



Those guys smell funny.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 16, 2022)

JBF said:


> I tried being a libertarian once.  I liked it, somewhat...but a lot of weirdos* in that crowd.  Part of the trouble with the big-tent mentality, one could argue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The biggest problem with the LP is that we're too busy being self-righteous and arguing amongst ourselves about what is and isn't Libertarian. If we could shut the frack up and unify into a cohesive party, we could be bigger than we are. Not quite challenge the Dems and GOP, but at least be influential. 


A.C.


----------



## JBF (Nov 16, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> The biggest problem with the LP is that we're too busy being self-righteous and arguing amongst ourselves about what is and isn't Libertarian. If we could shut the frack up and unify into a cohesive party, we could be bigger than we are. Not quite challenge the Dems and GOP, but at least be influential.
> 
> 
> A.C.



In hindsight, my issue was probably running into too many people with all the answers and no real-world experience.  Real easy to solve society's problems on paper.  In practice...different animal.

There are aspects I absolutely love, and there are aspects that are hopelessly in the realm of pipe dreams.


----------



## Arsenex (Nov 16, 2022)

JBF said:


> In hindsight, my issue was probably running into too many people with all the answers and no real-world experience.  Real easy to solve society's problems on paper.  In practice...different animal.
> 
> There are aspects I absolutely love, and there are aspects that are hopelessly in the realm of pipe dreams.


I blew up a mailbox with a pipe dream once. Or was that a pipe bomb. So long ago... (It was actually my brother who did that and it was our own mailbox. Left a metal post with the metal base of the box folded halfway down around it. We found the rest of the box, flattened, in a neighbor's yard.)


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 16, 2022)

I’m sitting here eating the leftover container of carrots and celery from last night. Wifey sits down next to me with pizza.

That’s grounds for divorce, right?


----------



## indianroads (Nov 16, 2022)

Joker said:


> Welcome to the libertarian club. We also have guns, gays and endless arguments about whether abortion violates the NAP.


Libertarian here.
I get confused looks when I mention it, but I just tell people that I like libraries. While they struggle with what to say, I walk away.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 16, 2022)

Joker said:


> Welcome to the libertarian club. We also have guns, gays and endless arguments about whether abortion violates the NAP.



And who’s more libertarian than who.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

Just learned an ex-coworker died at age 68. She helped trained me on a machining line I was on. A  Marboro light in one hand, a cup of coffee in the other. No idea if she actually knew what food was. Skinny as a rail, she was. And spastic. And guys, don’t believe for a second women can’t be as leering as guys can. She was living proof, but in a semi-respectful manner.


----------



## Sinister (Nov 17, 2022)

Know the type, Aaron.  Lost someone similar.  She was a friend and a confidant, if you forgive the phrase.  Made work more than bearable and was a lot of fun.  Funny thing was...I took her for granted and when she was gone it was like a slap in the face.  She was a real one.  Some people don't realize what an impact they were on you and sometimes you don't either.  Never underestimate the power of a solid friend.

Sorry, man.

-Sin


----------



## indianroads (Dec 20, 2022)

Cold weather, Negative 40 degrees Fahrenheit coming on Thursday.


----------



## VRanger (Dec 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Cold weather, Negative 40 degrees Fahrenheit coming on Thursday.


We're in the 20s the next few nights, and we think THAT'S cold. LOL


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Cold weather, Negative 40 degrees Fahrenheit coming on Thursday.


We’re getting a foot of snow.

And by a foot we actually mean an inch or so.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 20, 2022)

Murderer ex-coworker is supposed to be back in court in three weeks.


----------



## JBF (Dec 20, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> We’re getting a foot of snow.
> 
> And by a foot we actually mean an inch or so.


Four feet in Deadwood, South Dakota, in the past week.

I’d be lying to say I don’t miss it sometimes.


----------



## Joker (Dec 20, 2022)

VRanger said:


> We're in the 20s the next few nights, and we think THAT'S cold. LOL



Dude, it's been in the 50s here, and we think that's Armageddon.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 20, 2022)

Someone threw a big bag of garbage into the bottom of an empty metal shaving roll-off. I spent all night trying to figure out who threw it in there. Didn’t figure that out, but figured out which department. Their management decided they’d go fish it out.
In the meantime, new forklift driver dumping bins. Hunted him down to brief him on the situation. At one point, I uttered, _“If you have to dump shavings in it, aim for the right, and defy the laws of physics.”_

I don’t think the guy has a high opinion of me now….


----------



## Arsenex (Dec 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Cold weather, Negative 40 degrees Fahrenheit coming on Thursday.


-40F is insanity. We may get down to 30F on Sat night Sun night when it gets here.


----------



## Arsenex (Dec 20, 2022)

JBF said:


> Four feet in Deadwood, South Dakota, in the past week.
> 
> I’d be lying to say I don’t miss it sometimes.


Is it the gunfights in the streets that you miss? Or the hanging of road agents?


----------



## bdcharles (Dec 20, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Cold weather, Negative 40 degrees Fahrenheit coming on Thursday.


Yikes. There are warmer places on Mars.


----------



## VRanger (Dec 20, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> -40F is insanity. We may get down to 30F on Sat night Sun night when it gets here.


We've been adjusted to lows in the teens for the weekend now. Coldest weather in 5 years.


----------



## Phil Istine (Dec 20, 2022)

bdcharles said:


> Yikes. There are warmer places on Mars.


Yes, I remember some years ago during a freeze up,  part of the USA was colder than part of Mars. It was the year that Hell froze over (Hell is a town in the USA).


----------



## indianroads (Dec 20, 2022)

Funny thing is that it's currently 44 degrees (F) above zero. The weather person said that an arctic from Siberia is headed for us on Thursday... temperature swing between today and Thursday is 80+ degrees. I'm not living in California anymore.


----------



## TL Murphy (Dec 21, 2022)

-36C here this morning. Third day in a row.


----------



## S J Ward (Dec 21, 2022)

Plenty of ice for anothet G&T then... there's always an upside!


----------



## TL Murphy (Dec 21, 2022)

Yeah, no shortage of ice.  But I'm down for a hot toddy.


----------



## Sinister (Dec 21, 2022)

Ice...two feet of snow...freezing rain and bitter cold with fast winds in negative degrees Fahrenheit...

It all sounds like a dream, too good to be true, compared to last year.  The whole world can freeze if it wants.  It doesn't matter to me.  I'll be enjoying legally-ambiguous candies in a warm house(via generator, if necessary).  I just do not want any more house-razing holiday tornados.  They suck all the fun out of life-threatening weather events.  Please do not destroy everyone's homes and lives at Christmas time.  That is miserable.

-Sin


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 21, 2022)

Sinister said:


> Ice...two feet of snow...freezing rain and bitter cold with fast winds in negative degrees Fahrenheit...
> 
> It all sounds like a dream, too good to be true, compared to last year.  The whole world can freeze if it wants.  It doesn't matter to me.  I'll be enjoying legally-ambiguous candies in a warm house(via generator, if necessary).  I just do not want any more house-razing holiday tornados.  They suck all the fun out of life-threatening weather events.  Please do not destroy everyone's homes and lives at Christmas time.  That is miserable.
> 
> -Sin



It’s coming this way. We’re supposed to get it tomorrow. Boss-Man and I discussing this morning. He’s bracing for yards of snow. I’m thinking three inches max. Ho hum.
I had to go to the supermarket on my way home to pick up chips for the potluck tonight, and at 7 in the morning, the place was a mad house. You’d swear it was 2020 lock-down all over again.

I hate humanity sometimes.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> It’s coming this way. We’re supposed to get it tomorrow. Boss-Man and I discussing this morning. He’s bracing for yards of snow. I’m thinking three inches max. Ho hum.
> I had to go to the supermarket on my way home to pick up chips for the potluck tonight, and at 7 in the morning, the place was a mad house. You’d swear it was 2020 lock-down all over again.
> 
> *I hate humanity sometimes.*


I'm right with you on that.


----------



## Sinister (Dec 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> It’s coming this way. We’re supposed to get it tomorrow. Boss-Man and I discussing this morning. He’s bracing for yards of snow. I’m thinking three inches max. Ho hum.
> I had to go to the supermarket on my way home to pick up chips for the potluck tonight, and at 7 in the morning, the place was a mad house. You’d swear it was 2020 lock-down all over again.
> 
> I hate humanity sometimes.



It's never as impressive as advertised and definitely not as bad as people's overreaction.  The bread-aisle phenomenon...the panic...the amount of money spent on salting roads...the terror invoked by meteorologists...  Always so disappointing.  I don't object to actual catastrophes as much as I do to fear-mongering.

-Sin


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Sinister said:


> It's never as impressive as advertised and definitely not as bad as people's overreaction.  The bread-aisle phenomenon...the panic...the amount of money spent on salting roads...the terror invoked by meteorologists...  Always so disappointing.  I don't object to actual catastrophes as much as I do to fear-mongering.
> 
> -Sin


In Colorado, we're kinda used to it. Some winters are mild, but others can get nasty. We usually sit by the windows and watch the storm blow through. It's kinda nice actually. PLUS I should be done with the draft of Maelstrom, and will take the day off to read.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 21, 2022)

Lake Effect Snow makes anything coming this way from the west or north more interesting. The winds and colder than now temps only help with the _*OH MY GOD, WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!*_-ism of the next few days.


----------



## Sinister (Dec 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> In Colorado, we're kinda used to it. Some winters are mild, but others can get nasty. We usually sit by the windows and watch the storm blow through. It's kinda nice actually. PLUS I should be done with the draft of Maelstrom, and will take the day off to read.


This may sound naive, but I envy you.  I happen to like deep snows and low temps.  Here in Kentucky, we're much more likely to get freezing rain which is just enough to wreck our local trees, kill all my lovely plants and make everything deadly.  Half-measures are a curse.  I'd much rather live somewhere in the extreme north or a place that gets honest cold and not wet Christmases and dangerous/evil Februarys.  Perhaps it is climate change, but I remember getting hip deep snows in October and never a single freezing-rain.  

-Sin


----------



## Arsenex (Dec 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> It’s coming this way. We’re supposed to get it tomorrow. Boss-Man and I discussing this morning. He’s bracing for yards of snow. I’m thinking three inches max. Ho hum.
> I had to go to the supermarket on my way home to pick up chips for the potluck tonight, and at 7 in the morning, the place was a mad house. You’d swear it was 2020 lock-down all over again.
> 
> I hate humanity sometimes.


Pffft. People. What are they good for? Always mucking things up.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Kentucky is a beautiful state - horse country. My father was born in Wartrace TN, so I visited that part of the country and enjoyed it. Every place has is own brand of special beauty. The Appalachians are beautiful. We live just north of Colorado Springs and have a view of America's Mountain, (aka, Purple Mountain Majesty - Pikes Peak) from our back yard. Our house is at 7200 ft elevation and the altitude takes a bit of getting used to. We don't get as much snow as the mountains, but I've had to dig through 6' drifts several times - yet still, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


----------



## Sinister (Dec 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Kentucky is a beautiful state - horse country. My father was born in Wartrace TN, so I visited that part of the country and enjoyed it. Every place has is own brand of special beauty. The Appalachians are beautiful. We live just north of Colorado Springs and have a view of America's Mountain, (aka, Purple Mountain Majesty - Pikes Peak) from our back yard. Our house is at 7200 ft elevation and the altitude takes a bit of getting used to. We don't get as much snow as the mountains, but I've had to dig through 6' drifts several times - yet still, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


I hated it as a teenager, but now...older and wiser, I admit that it does have its charm.  And I do have deep roots with Kentucky's brand of weird and crazy.  But I've seen precious little of other places and probably could benefit from travel.  Just so long as I can take Kentucky bourbon with me.  lol

I do LOVE Tennessee.  Nashville definitely appeals and I go as often as possible.  I even got to attend my first symphony and then my first opera there.  I'll never forget how amazing that was.  But I would love to visit Colorado...and indeed as many other places as possible...so long as they are not Texas.  Been there.  Sorry, Texans.  I need green trees and grass at the very least.

-Sin


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Sinister said:


> I hated it as a teenager, but now...older and wiser, I admit that it does have its charm.  And I do have deep roots with Kentucky's brand of weird and crazy.  But I've seen precious little of other places and probably could benefit from travel.  Just so long as I can take Kentucky bourbon with me.  lol
> 
> -Sin


Get yourself a motorcycle and hit the road. That's the best way to see the country.


----------



## Sinister (Dec 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Get yourself a motorcycle and hit the road. That's the best way to see the country.
> View attachment 30126




Believe me...  I have ALWAYS wanted one.  It's definitely on my bucket list.

-Sin


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Sinister said:


> Believe me...  I have ALWAYS wanted one.  It's definitely on my bucket list.
> 
> -Sin


Don't let life pass you by my friend, we only get one shot at it.
Consider it a business expense... you have to ride around the country to soak in the essence of locations you'll use in your books.
You're welcome.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 21, 2022)

No disrespect, but register as an organ donor first. Long list of motorcycling friends and coworkers who are no longer with us.  Too phracking long. Obviously not always the fault of the motorcycle rider, but still…

My dad got hit and nearly killed on his back in the day. I had to settle for a bicycle instead because of it. Then again, I’ve been hit by a car while on a bicycle (minor accident), and knew a few K’s from car-bike accidents.


----------



## JBF (Dec 21, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Is it the gunfights in the streets that you miss? Or the hanging of road agents?



I kept my gunfights to hills, mostly, and the only road agents I knew up there were corporate.

...it ever comes time for any of that bunch to swing, I'll bring beer.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> No disrespect, but register as an organ donor first. Long list of motorcycling friends and coworkers who are no longer with us.  Too phracking long. Obviously not always the fault of the motorcycle rider, but still…
> 
> My dad got hit and nearly killed on his back in the day. I had to settle for a bicycle instead because of it. Then again, I’ve been hit by a car while on a bicycle (minor accident), and knew a few K’s from car-bike accidents.


Admittedly it's dangerous... it's said that if you ride a motorcycle long enough you'll eventually end up with a cold weather limp... if you're lucky. These days the biggest problem are the imbeciles on their damned cell phones.

Riding in a car though is like watching a travel documentary on television - everything you see has a frame around it. You see some of the environment, but you're not IN it. On a bike you smell the trees and flowers, feel the damp wind off the ocean and the blistering heat of the desert. A car is safe, but it's like a sensory deprivation booth - you're there, but also not there.

I don't fault your opinion - because you're correct. I've gone down more than once - guess what? Pain hurts... a lot. I was in a car accident when I was 17 and that was worse. Life is a full contact event, and I choose to go with it because the best view is at the edge of the precipice. It's definitely not for everyone though.

ETA: A friend used to say, _If you're not livin' on the edge, you're takin' up too much space._


----------



## Arsenex (Dec 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Admittedly it's dangerous... it's said that if you ride a motorcycle long enough you'll eventually end up with a cold weather limp... if you're lucky. These days the biggest problem are the imbeciles on their damned cell phones.
> 
> Riding in a car though is like watching a travel documentary on television - everything you see has a frame around it. You see some of the environment, but you're not IN it. On a bike you smell the trees and flowers, feel the damp wind off the ocean and the blistering heat of the desert. A car is safe, but it's like a sensory deprivation booth - you're there, but also not there.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking you need to write a few motorcycles into your books. You already have the expert knowledge and you probably have a few bike stories to build upon.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> I'm thinking you need to write a few motorcycles into your books. You already have the expert knowledge and you probably have a few bike stories to build upon.


I have more stories in my head that I'll ever have time to write. But yeah - actually... after my 3 novel series Maelstrom, I'm planning on returning to biker characters.


----------



## Arsenex (Dec 21, 2022)

JBF said:


> I kept my gunfights to hills, mostly, and the only road agents I knew up there were corporate.
> 
> ...it ever comes time for any of that bunch to swing, I'll bring beer.


Sounds like a good dystopian tale where old western justice meets high finance after a breakdown of society. You could call it Hanging Chads, although, that sounds more like an electioneering thriller.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Sounds like a good dystopian tale where old western justice meets high finance after a breakdown of society. You could call it Hanging Chads, although, that sounds more like an electioneering thriller.


I'm considering a series mimicking the Jack Ryan series, but with the MC being an Outlaw Biker out for revenge against those that tore up his club and shot his friends.


----------



## Arsenex (Dec 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I'm considering a series mimicking the Jack Ryan series, but with the MC being an Outlaw Biker out for revenge against those that tore up his club and shot his friends.


I'm guessing you mean Jack Reacher? But yeah, his motivation could be a combination of helping out the little guy and penance for his prior deeds. And he goes in without fear because he has the mindset of he's got nothing to lose.  A good solid character who's not looking to change, but has the opportunity for growth. There's a long list of villains that are waiting to be used. Drug dealers, corrupt politicians, corrupt corporate entities... the list goes on and on.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> I'm guessing you mean Jack Reacher? But yeah, his motivation could be a combination of helping out the little guy and penance for his prior deeds. And he goes in without fear because he has the mindset of he's got nothing to lose.  A good solid character who's not looking to change, but has the opportunity for growth. There's a long list of villains that are waiting to be used. Drug dealers, corrupt politicians, corrupt corporate entities... the list goes on and on.


I want my biker character to be on the darker side though, meaning he is a bad person... but the thing is that everyone is the hero of their own story. By murdering those that took out his friends he is bringing justice. I like tarnished main characters.


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## Arsenex (Dec 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I want my biker character to be on the darker side though, meaning he is a bad person... but the thing is that everyone is the hero of their own story. By murdering those that took out his friends he is bringing justice. I like tarnished main characters.


He can be as brutal as you want in his methods, but you'll want to figure out some way to make him likeable other than just serving up justice. I had a MC who was a bit messed up in his selfishness but was the hero at the end of the book. Cost me a lot in review ratings, though, because some readers just didn't like him, regardless of what he accomplished. Basically had to go back and cut out a lot of his unlikable behavior. Even though your MC is gonna be dark in some ways, give readers common reasons to like him. He makes a mean BBQ brisket. He's big on animal rescue, can tie in with wanting to help out the innocent. While he'll punch you in the face for looking at him wrong, he's been known to shell out a few bucks for someone really down on their luck. A few of those sprinkled in and he can be a shockingly brutal serving up justice as you want him to be. Still needs to be an acceptable human being.

Was that too much of "You should write this instead?"   Sometimes I can't help myself.


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## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> He can be as brutal as you want in his methods, but you'll want to figure out some way to make him likeable other than just serving up justice. I had a MC who was a bit messed up in his selfishness but was the hero at the end of the book. Cost me a lot in review ratings, though, because some readers just didn't like him, regardless of what he accomplished. Basically had to go back and cut out a lot of his unlikable behavior. Even though your MC is gonna be dark in some ways, give readers common reasons to like him. He makes a mean BBQ brisket. He's big on animal rescue, can tie in with wanting to help out the innocent. While he'll punch you in the face for looking at him wrong, he's been known to shell out a few bucks for someone really down on their luck. A few of those sprinkled in and he can be a shockingly brutal serving up justice as you want him to be. Still needs to be an acceptable human being.
> 
> Was that too much of "You should write this instead?"   Sometimes I can't help myself.


Thanks! Great advice.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Admittedly it's dangerous... it's said that if you ride a motorcycle long enough you'll eventually end up with a cold weather limp... if you're lucky. These days the biggest problem are the imbeciles on their damned cell phones.



As a bicyclist the biggest issue are a-holes that think that only cars belong on the roads. I also get the same thing when I'm out for a leisurely cruise on the '52 Ford tractor. But yeah, idiots on cell phones while driving is serious issue. It's how the trunk of my Mazda ended up in the back seat back in 2000. 

The biggest issue on the other side of the coin is douche-bag bicyclists. And I hate them as much as you guys do. Look, everyone has the right to the roads, but the self-righteous bicyclists give the rest of us a bad name. Not going to apologize for their behavior or stick up for them. Just know that when I'm out on the road on my pedal pony, I'm sticking to the side, and obeying road signs and traffic signals, etc. I kinda like breathing air and being alive right now, dig? Besides, car vs. bike.. two guess on who's going to win, and your first guess doesn't count....

RE: 'cold weather limp.' Dude at work has been in two motorcycle, three car, and two snowmobile (I guess you guys might call them _snowmachine_ like the canucks do) accidents and has broken just about every bone sans neck. You should see him move when the weather changes...



indianroads said:


> Riding in a car though is like watching a travel documentary on television - everything you see has a frame around it. You see some of the environment, but you're not IN it. On a bike you smell the trees and flowers, feel the damp wind off the ocean and the blistering heat of the desert. A car is safe, but it's like a sensory deprivation booth - you're there, but also not there.



Honestly, I get that as far as driving the tractor goes, albeit at 10 - 20 mph, depending on which one I'm driving.


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## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> As a bicyclist the biggest issue are a-holes that think that only cars belong on the roads. I also get the same thing when I'm out for a leisurely cruise on the '52 Ford tractor. But yeah, idiots on cell phones while driving is serious issue. It's how the trunk of my Mazda ended up in the back seat back in 2000.
> 
> The biggest issue on the other side of the coin is douche-bag bicyclists. And I hate them as much as you guys do. Look, everyone has the right to the roads, but the self-righteous bicyclists give the rest of us a bad name. Not going to apologize for their behavior or stick up for them. Just know that when I'm out on the road on my pedal pony, I'm sticking to the side, and obeying road signs and traffic signals, etc. I kinda like breathing air and being alive right now, dig? Besides, car vs. bike.. two guess on who's going to win, and your first guess doesn't count....
> 
> ...


On my motorcycle, I've crested a low rise at 60 mph and encountered a row of bicycles riding side by side stretching out in the lane. I didn't hit them, but when I stopped later on, my ass was still puckered so tight I had to use a pry bar to get off the seat.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 21, 2022)

I ride solo on the road. My buddy and I ride together on the trail. We ride side by side. However, if there's oncoming traffic or someone coming up the other way, we'll get over one in front of the other. There's plenty of hass ats on the trail that won't even do that. As I said, they're annoying to us as they are to you.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 21, 2022)

Yawn, yeah, sure….


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## indianroads (Dec 21, 2022)

@Arsenex  motivation for my biker character 

2015 Waco shootout


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## C.K.Johnson (Dec 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> View attachment 30127
> Yawn, yeah, sure….


My son lives in Denver and has a similar forecast. No, son, I will not retire to Denver


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## JBF (Dec 22, 2022)

indianroads said:


> 2015 Waco shootout


 
I was living in Waco in 2015.  It was an odd time.  

Seem to recall there was a lot of stink on that event.


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## indianroads (Dec 22, 2022)

JBF said:


> I was living in Waco in 2015.  It was an odd time.
> 
> Seem to recall there was a lot of stink on that event.


Oh yeah...
I won't use that event literally, but will use it as inspiration for... I'm not sure yet... maybe an FBI raid at the Redwood Run (or a similar made up event) where the FBI and LEOs open fire on 1%ers. We'll see; it's probably a year before I'll start working on the plot.


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## TL Murphy (Dec 22, 2022)

-39C this morning.  I tried to take a picture of the thermometer but it's too effing cold!


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## EternalGreen (Dec 22, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> View attachment 30127
> Yawn, yeah, sure….



You call that a winter storm??


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## indianroads (Dec 22, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> -39C this morning.  I tried to take a picture of the thermometer but it's too effing cold!


The storm seems to have passed here. We only got about 3 inches of snow, and it’s warmed up to a balmy -25 F.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 22, 2022)

EternalGreen said:


> You call that a winter storm??


They do, yes


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## EternalGreen (Dec 22, 2022)

That's hardly more than a dusting.


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## indianroads (Dec 22, 2022)

EternalGreen said:


> That's hardly more than a dusting.


True - the arctic blast is more bothersome than the snow.


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## Louanne Learning (Dec 22, 2022)

We had to postpone our big family gathering Christmas Eve because of the weather. Out-of-towners advised to not travel.

I guess Christmas for us will come in January.


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## indianroads (Dec 22, 2022)

The high temp of the day was -6 F (that's -21 C). Not motorcycle riding weather.


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## Arsenex (Dec 22, 2022)

indianroads said:


> The high temp of the day was -6 F (that's -21 C). Not motorcycle riding weather.


Don't you have bolt-on skis to make it a snowcycle?


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## indianroads (Dec 22, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> Don't you have bolt-on skis to make it a snowcycle?


Nope. Riding on ice is a bad idea.
I know a guy that does motorcycle ice racing… he’s crazy.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 22, 2022)

Interstate 94 is shit right now.

That is all.

Good night. Have a drink for me, will ya. I really could use one, but I just got to work.

A.C.


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## Arsenex (Dec 23, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Interstate 94 is shit right now.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> ...


You think that's bad. I have to mow the grass today.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 23, 2022)

Arsenex said:


> You think that's bad. I have to mow the grass today.


Banned for…. Wait, wrong thread again.


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## indianroads (Dec 23, 2022)

Just back from a doctor appointment regarding my back problems. The doctor didn't show. I drove 20+ miles through the ice and snow in -4 F temperatures, and the doctor cancels at the last minute... she's probably from California.


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## TL Murphy (Dec 23, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Nope. Riding on ice is a bad idea.
> I know a guy that does motorcycle ice racing… he’s crazy.


I ride studded tires on my mountain bike all winter. They work well on ice but not in soft snow. I wait for the fat bikers to pack it down first.


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## indianroads (Dec 23, 2022)

TL Murphy said:


> I ride studded tires on my mountain bike all winter. They work well on ice but not in soft snow. I wait for the fat bikers to pack it down first.


I met a guy that lived up in Sturgis SD, and he told me that he rode his motorcycle to work throughout the year. I love to ride, but I ain't that crazy.


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## TL Murphy (Dec 23, 2022)

indianroads said:


> I met a guy that lived up in Sturgis SD, and he told me that he rode his motorcycle to work throughout the year. I love to ride, but I ain't that crazy.


I met a guy once trying to ride his Harley over the Great Divide in a major snowstorm. He was on his way to Vancouver. He was at a gas station coated in 3 inches of ice and asked me if he could put his hog on the back of my truck just to get him over the pass. He offer to ride on back and hold it down. I told him he would die.

I got him over the pass and down about 2000 ft of elevation, then I turned around and drove back to the ski hill. He said I saved his life. I don't know about that. He still had 500 miles to go and several mountain ranges.


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## Arsenex (Dec 23, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Banned for…. Wait, wrong thread again.


Mowed the yard. Cut and put up some new vertical blinds. Hair cut. Put leaf in table for dinner guests tomorrow. And covered all our delicate outdoor plants for the cold tonight. Supposed to hit 30F. Took about 20 old bed sheets. FL has some great tropical plants, but they suck in cold. And now I get to settle in until firing up the grill for steaks tonight.


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## indianroads (Dec 23, 2022)

Back from visiting the doctor - nothing new, just a follow up from my visit to the emergency room last week.
Still cold as a witch's tit outside.


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## Triffids (Jan 2, 2023)

I've got one, In the autumn the Starlings depart to Africa and just before that Coalesce into a great swarm at dusk quite a sight I tell you since the male Starling is pure iridescence and sparkles so,at midday, it's a shame it   happens at dusk an awesome sight nonetheless


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Monday at 2:33 PM)

Murderer Ex-Coworker who blew his neighbor away back in August is supposed to have been back in court today.

In a completely unrelated incident, the entire day shift of my department called in today. Glad I didn’t get stuck working over today. One coworker left in ambulance Friday from kidney stones…


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## Arsenex (Monday at 5:49 PM)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Murderer Ex-Coworker who blew his neighbor away back in August is supposed to have been back in court today.
> 
> In a completely unrelated incident, the entire day shift of my department called in today. Glad I didn’t get stuck working over today. One coworker left in ambulance Friday from kidney stones…


wow. You must work in fun town. 

Got a friend who just had stones for like the 4th time. 63 and he has an at-rest heart rate in the low 40s. Can run/hike/mountainbike forever. Anyway, stones blocked up between kidney and bladder, got infected, made his blood septic, docs didn't know what they were doing, trying to treat something else, his leg swelled way up and they had to slice open his ankle to drain out the toxins that had pooled. At the same time his blood platelets dropped to 7,000, which means your blood vessels could start leaking internally, causing you to bleed out without even having a cut on you. And then his right knee swelled up like a football. He had a Baker's cyst that ruptured, probably from the low platelets. The whole episode had him near death because of the wrong initial diagnosis from the hospital doctors. Couldn't even walk for a couple weeks. Has been about three months now and he's back to biking some. With as fit as he usually is, I told him if he goes what hope do the rest of us have. lol.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Monday at 6:10 PM)

Arsenex said:


> wow. You must work in fun town.



The guy blew his neighbor away a week after a coworker of his was sentenced to 70 years for serial sexual assault and imprisonment. That part of the shop's been frazzled every since.


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## Triffids (Tuesday at 2:57 AM)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Murderer Ex-Coworker who blew his neighbor away back in August is supposed to have been back in court today.
> 
> In a completely unrelated incident, the entire day shift of my department called in today. Glad I didn’t get stuck working over today. One coworker left in ambulance Friday from kidney stones…


Crikey these are getting grizzly


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Tuesday at 3:03 AM)

Triffids said:


> Crikey these are getting grizzly



No kidding. Now he’s not expected to be back in court until February.
Last week we turned our attention to the recently dead co-worker. Now we return to watching this drama. 
The domestic abuse and police stand-off ordeal with two ex-coworkers fizzled out, so we’ve got this to follow now.


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## Triffids (Tuesday at 3:15 AM)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> No kidding. Now he’s not expected to be back in court until February.
> Last week we turned our attention to the recently dead co-worker. Now we return to watching this drama.
> The domestic abuse and police stand-off ordeal with two ex-coworkers fizzled out, so we’ve got this to follow now.


Quite turbulent then


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## JBF (Tuesday at 3:49 AM)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> No kidding. Now he’s not expected to be back in court until February.
> Last week we turned our attention to the recently dead co-worker. Now we return to watching this drama.
> The domestic abuse and police stand-off ordeal with two ex-coworkers fizzled out, so we’ve got this to follow now.



Something in the drinking water?


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## Earp (Tuesday at 6:18 AM)

Triffids said:


> Crikey these are getting grizzly


Yes, almost unbearable.


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## Arsenex (Tuesday at 7:05 PM)

JBF said:


> Something in the drinking water?


Electric forklift fumes.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Tuesday at 7:16 PM)

Murdering Ex-coworker back in court Feb. 6th.  Tomorrow is the last day of cleaning at Meth House across the street. Contractors coming back in the morning for what they hope in their last trip. I've got a celebratory beer waiting in the fridge.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Tuesday at 7:19 PM)

Arsenex said:


> Electric forklift fumes.



That sounds like a 60's psychedelic band from San Fran.... 

*TONIGHT AT THE FILLMORE WEST*
*QUICKSILVER MESSENGER SERVICE
with Special Guests*
*THE ELECTRIC FORKLIFT FUMES*

What say you, IR?


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Tuesday at 8:02 PM)

Arsenex said:


> Electric forklift fumes.


A forklift battery does give off fumes if not properly watered.


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## Arsenex (Tuesday at 8:03 PM)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> A forklift battery does give off fumes if not properly watered.


Yeah, yeah. let's not get technical and ruin the joke.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Tuesday at 8:06 PM)

Arsenex said:


> Yeah, yeah. let's not get technical and ruin the joke.


My bad. Forgive me.


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## Arsenex (Tuesday at 8:10 PM)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> My bad. Forgive me.


Fumes brings up a story from High school. One of the guys in auto shop used to sneak into the paint room to huff lacquer thinner every day. By the end of the school year he was probably the dumbest person I ever knew.


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## Arsenex (Tuesday at 8:15 PM)

Arsenex said:


> Fumes brings up a story from High school. One of the guys in auto shop used to sneak into the paint room to huff lacquer thinner every day. By the end of the school year he was probably the dumbest person I ever knew.


I remember getting off the bus from school one day and that kid got into a fight with another kid who was slightly smaller. The smaller kid opened a can of whoopass on him and the dumb kid's father ran out of the house and jumped on the smaller kid. The smaller kid turned and beat his ass, too. Everyone walked away laughing.


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## C.K.Johnson (Tuesday at 8:34 PM)

The weather here has been so crazy, weeks of rain and high winds have trees down everywhere. We had tornado warnings in the Central Valley last night 
I know California needs the rain but this is ridiculous.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Tuesday at 8:48 PM)

C.K.Johnson said:


> The weather here has been so crazy, weeks of rain and high winds have trees down everywhere. We had tornado warnings in the Central Valley last night
> I know California needs the rain but this is ridiculous.



I saw the news updates on the TV in the breakroom last night. For some reason I thought you were north of that region. Anyhow, stay safe.


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## C.K.Johnson (Tuesday at 9:39 PM)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> I saw the news updates on the TV in the breakroom last night. For some reason I thought you were north of that region. Anyhow, stay safe.


I lived the past 20 years in the East Bay, we retired to Lodi last year.


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## Arsenex (Wednesday at 9:03 AM)

C.K.Johnson said:


> The weather here has been so crazy, weeks of rain and high winds have trees down everywhere. We had tornado warnings in the Central Valley last night
> I know California needs the rain but this is ridiculous.


Rain in California. Now that _is_ ridiculous.


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## C.K.Johnson (Wednesday at 9:12 AM)

Arsenex said:


> Rain in California. Now that _is_ ridiculous.


I know, right? After all we pay in weather-tax…I want to speak to the manager.


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## ehbowen (Wednesday at 11:29 AM)

Stolen from Facebook. Posted without further comment:


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## Triffids (Yesterday at 3:35 PM)

That's evil, Herring gulls are quite enormous ( the Usa has a slightly different type I believe though near identical)  they are certainly voracious though quite elegant in flight. The black- headed gull pretty and small arguably the best of them. The kittiwake that I've never seen rare So I've heard. The skua of the far north eats penguins and the wandering albatross that can live upward of 80 years or so can stay on the wing for years when young. Gulls are quite interesting I feel, though my favourite has to be the Great blacked back gull for he is enormous, lesser black backed gulls are smaller yet still large
However the worst time is spring and Summer when by the seaside that years hatchlings are beggining to fly for they are clumsy and lack the finesse of the adults along with their constant screaming, and if you dare try to harm them the parents will attack.
Sorry went on a little talk about gulls


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