# Animal Farm, anyone?



## Shawn (Mar 21, 2007)

Some say it is a little childish. Me? I think it was absolutely brilliant, it put communism in a way that everyone could understand. Characters are brilliant, plot is brilliant, and the prose is fun. Who else loves Orwell? Hates him?


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## Banzai (Mar 21, 2007)

I personally love it. It is a satire on twentieth century politics, in the form of a children's story (well, almost). It is especially interesting when you realise that Orwell was a left-winger, and so he is criticising the stalinist method of socialism/communism, rather than the actual ideology (which is clear to see in the story, where the ideology is sound, but the pigs abuse it). 

I'm also a big fan of Orwell, and yet another of those who thought that 1984 was genius. The ending in particular. But Orwell's writings are far more interesting and make more sense when you look at Orwell himself, and his life and beliefs (such as fighing on the left wing in the Spanish Civil War, as part of a POUM militia, which suffered at the hands of the USSR-backed communists).


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## Shawn (Mar 21, 2007)

I completely agree with you. I think few writers in history have been able to put so much into so few words ever. I laughed out loud when he told of the pigs walking on hind legs. Ha. Turned right back around.

I think _true_ communism would be nice, but that is impossible when considering man's nature.


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## Banzai (Mar 21, 2007)

Have you read 'Homage to Catalonia'? It's an account of Orwell's experiences in the Spanish Civil War. I haven't read it myself (it's on my seemingly endless 'to read' list) but I know people who have, and have said it's very good. If you're an Orwell fan, then it's probably something to check out.


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## Shawn (Mar 21, 2007)

Actually, I'm kind of embarrassed, I've never even heard of it. Sounds good, I've been looking for something to read after I finish the Jane Marple mysteries.


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## Banzai (Mar 21, 2007)

Don't be embarassed, I hadn't heard of it either until I met a true Orwell fanatic last year


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## Dexter67 (Mar 21, 2007)

I absoultely _despised_ Animal Farm, I found insufferably boring.


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## Edgewise (Mar 21, 2007)

This was the first book I ever read that could be considered a classic.  It is still one of my favorites.  Brilliant symbolism, simple language, a bit of black humor superimposed on very serious historical context.  If it isn't already, it should be required reading in every middle school history or english class.


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## Banzai (Mar 22, 2007)

Dexter67 said:
			
		

> I absoultely _despised_ Animal Farm, I found insufferably boring.


 
Could you elaborate? I'm not trying to get on at you, I just want to know your reasoning.


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## Mike C (Mar 22, 2007)

Animal Farm was indeed brilliant, and yes, best viewed in context within Orwell's life and experience. 

Interesting historical fact: When AF was written (1945) Britain was in the throes of rationing and censorship (much of the fodder for 1984) and books had to get govenment approval before they could be printed both on political and economic grounds - paper had to be allocated. 

The government blocked publication of Animal Farm because it was anti-Stalinist and Stalin was, at that time, an ally. This was eventually overturned and, years later, it transpired that the official who attempted to block publication of AF was, in all likelihood, a soviet agent.

Just in case you wanted to know...

I can thoroughly recommend Homage to Catalonia, as well as just about everything else he wrote. Most of his novels are more or less autobiographical, and make for great social history as well as brilliant novels. My favourites are Keep the Aspidistra Flying, Coming Up for Air and The Clergyman's Daughter. His essays make interesting reading also.


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## Lanex (Mar 22, 2007)

I think the book was excellent and was very good to read. I think the ending had a great twist.


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## Lance (Mar 22, 2007)

Good book, stupid movie.

The movie was dreadful, I loved the story but they couldn't get it down in the movie.


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## Minka (Mar 25, 2007)

Banzai said:
			
		

> Have you read 'Homage to Catalonia'? It's an account of Orwell's experiences in the Spanish Civil War. I haven't read it myself (it's on my seemingly endless 'to read' list) but I know people who have, and have said it's very good. If you're an Orwell fan, then it's probably something to check out.


 
Homage to Catalonia is amazing. It's not fictional, but Orwell recounts his gruelling experiences with his usual eloquence. As for Animal Farm, that book gave me the creeps. In a good way though (it was the evil pigs that did it). I was only about thirteen when I read it, so the links with communism didn't really click straight away. But now I know more about communism in Russia, I can see it for the brilliant black satire that it really is.


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## SteMcGrath (Sep 27, 2007)

Orwell is one of my favorite authors. Has anyone read- _The road to Wigan pier_? It's a very interesting book. Talks predominately about socialism. He's an amazing writer. His moral high ground is a force to be reckoned with!


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## Luzici (Sep 29, 2007)

I felt tempted to pick up this book quite a few times. But then I was assigned to read _1984 _in school once, and since I couldn't stand that I doubt I will ever read _Animal Farm_.


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## wheelz1138 (Oct 21, 2007)

I found a copy of 1984 in my college bookstore last year. Also that same day, after having seen the movie first, I bought Slaughterhouse Five, both in paperback. I think that combo is one of the best, and most complimentary of each other than any other two books of the 20th century. I saw the animated Animal Farm in elementary school, and though I don't really remember much, I do remember the pigs... anyone else think The Beatles were directly referencing the swine in their song "Piggies"? It would be absolutely impossible for me to believe they wrote the song without some indirect assistance.


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## Buddy Glass (Oct 23, 2007)

Shawn said:


> I think _true_ communism would be nice, but that is impossible when considering man's nature.


Care to elaborate on how it would be "nice"?


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## Shawn (Oct 23, 2007)

Buddy Glass said:


> Care to elaborate on how it would be "nice"?



I don't see how equality for all people could be anything but nice.


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## Buddy Glass (Oct 24, 2007)

Shawn said:


> I don't see how equality for all people could be anything but nice.


Oh, don't tell me you still believe that rosy fairy-tale bullshit. How old are you, man??

Communism is not simply equality for everyone. Communism is a utopian dream inspired and based on marxism, a historicist theory that claims to have understood the inevtiable development of history without taking into account that this plausbility is nothing more than a complete misunderstanding of the scientific method, as Popper would have it. Inevitably their vision for a utopian paradise on earth lead to the gulags, the murdering, the suffering. Anyone who did not comply to the agenda of the communist regimes - anyone who dared revolt against their oppressiveness - were mercilessly killed.

So, no communism is not "equality for everyone". It's a little more complex than that. Perhaps if you tried reading Marx and Engels or Lenin or even some Sartre you'd start seeing the bigger picture.

Have a good day.


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## Shawn (Oct 24, 2007)

I said true communism would be nice, and then said that it's impossible. Popper refined the scientific method after Marx was long dead.

In its ideal form, communism is workers rebellion, which is replaced with paradise. The ideal is nice... in practice, not so much. That's what Animal Farm was all about... you don't have to be a dick about it.


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## Eli Cash (Oct 24, 2007)

I really liked _Down and Out in Paris and London_, and so now want to read his writings from the time when he was a cop in Burma.

_Animal Farm_ and _1984_ are, of course, great but I read them so long ago... These non-fiction things are a more recent discovery.


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## Buddy Glass (Oct 24, 2007)

Eli Cash said:


> I really liked _Down and Out in Paris and London_, and so now want to read his writings from the time when he was a cop in Burma.
> 
> _Animal Farm_ and _1984_ are, of course, great but I read them so long ago... These non-fiction things are a more recent discovery.


 
"The crickets and the rust-beetles scuttled among the nettles of the sage thicket. "Vámonos, amigos," he whispered, and threw the busted leather flintcraw over the loose weave of the saddlecock. And they rode on in the friscalating dusklight."

Well, everyone knows that Custer died at Little Bighorn. What this book presupposes is... maybe he didn't?

I always wanted to be a Tenenbaum.


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## Eli Cash (Oct 25, 2007)

Buddy Glass said:


> "The crickets and the rust-beetles scuttled among the nettles of the sage thicket. "Vámonos, amigos," he whispered, and threw the busted leather flintcraw over the loose weave of the saddlecock. And they rode on in the friscalating dusklight."
> 
> Well, everyone knows that Custer died at Little Bighorn. What this book presupposes is... maybe he didn't?
> 
> I always wanted to be a Tenenbaum.



Margot: Do you send my mother your clippings and your grades from college? 
Eli: Please stop belittling me.


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## Buddy Glass (Oct 25, 2007)

Eli Cash said:


> Margot: Do you send my mother your clippings and your grades from college?
> Eli: Please stop belittling me.


 
Oh, I love Wes Anderson. Have you seen Darjeeling yet? Immaculate.


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## Delvok (Nov 9, 2007)

Animal Farm is one of my favourite novels.

Anyone here read 1984? If so, what did you think?


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## deserve to die (Jan 8, 2008)

pretty much my whole tenth grade class hated the book besides a few stragglers (including me).


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## cowpops (Feb 10, 2008)

I had to read it in 8th grade.

I did not _enjoy _it, but I learned a lot.


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## GridCanal (Feb 11, 2008)

My class read it in 9th grade. I enjoyed it. I have not read _1984 _yet, but my friend has, and he says it's very enlightening.


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## cowpops (Feb 13, 2008)

_1984 _is SOOOO interesting.  I read that recently as well.  I enjoyed it, but man.  That book will change your thinking.


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## Arin (Feb 20, 2008)

I never really understood the Communist Revolution until I read Animal Farm, which I found chilling and fascinating. 1984 was excellent too, very suspensefully written, very depressing, but ingenious nonetheless.


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## paradice_creature (Feb 26, 2008)

ohh i love both these books. 
although:> regarding orwells perception of communism and capitalism i think many people are a little confused!

i think the point with 1984 was this!> he was living in a capitalist country at the time he wrote that. (I think?) 
I felt more that he was expressing a desire for communism, or at least to explore communism honestly> but all the media talked about was propeganda and opression & always being watched> something orwel felt in his native country.

well that was my take on 1984 

i love it either way. the power to make one think is often lacking with many writers.


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## paradice_creature (Feb 26, 2008)

i thought the idea with communism was more based around the philosopical nature of of a competative society vs a society where people help one another. (at its heart at least) 

in a capitalism if one company has manopoly then others seek to break it and destroy it so they can build their own. (i.e. microsoft) 
then there would be two that could compete pushing each other to greater heights.
> In practice it just creates huge mountains of trash and hight gas prices in the future, but hey. 

in communism (i think) the natural progression would be a tendacy towards one big company that was centralised under the control of the people. > this would provide greater efficiency than many smaller competing company, and would provide a more enjoyable feeling of living> (none of the competative hate.etc.)

in real life the yanks used their upperhand from stepping out of world war two (whilst europe and russia and east were hounded) and went to war with communism like a bully in the playground! When they went to war this forced many communisms to implement tighter controls and in many ways forced them to become to extreem rather than allowin the natural progreession to control by the workers. 
?


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## cryptika (Apr 7, 2008)

I loved _Animal Farm. _I got so swept up in the story that I was shocked when (and where) it ended.


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## Danielle (Apr 9, 2008)

Personally, I think Orwell is a genius. Animal farm is a brilliant book because it uses satire and easily grasped concepts to explore how much of a betrayal the Russian revolution was. The society that's being shown isn't necessarily a Communist one but it certainly is a fascist one.


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## HarmsGirl (May 15, 2008)

I enjoyed it. It was very well written. His political satire was great, as I enjoy any satire on politics, and the characters were nicely constructed,


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## bryndavis (Jun 1, 2008)

I love Orwell.  Down and Out in Paris and London may not be his most refined book but it definitely stands out for me.  Animal Farm, is of course, a classic.


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## SoNickSays... (Jun 1, 2008)

Woah! Animal Farm! Now _that_ takes me back.

I recall studying it in School...

Great characters, great comparisons, great author.


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## WriteStuff (Jun 17, 2008)

_Animal Farm_ is brilliant.  The symbolism with the animals is excellent, as well as the commentary on Marxism.  I also like the final sentence of the book: "The animals outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already they could not tell the difference."  What do you think Orwell was trying to tell us about our society?


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## WriteStuff (Jun 17, 2008)

Sorry, double post.


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## WriteStuff (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm about to kill this forum...


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