# Publisher offer - ebooks



## LunaSturges (Aug 16, 2016)

I sent out the first four chapters of my novel yesterday to an ebook publisher and received an answer last night. They're a small publisher from the looks of it and the woman who runs it told me in her email to me that she really liked what she saw and asked me to call her.

I called her and after a half hour long conversation, she told me she would like to publish me and sent off a contract. I haven't signed it yet but wanted to know how to proceed.

Is it standard to make an offer on the basis of four chapters only? And if so, is it standard to offer forty percent royalties on every book sold? Also, the contract states that I am to write an additional two books this year and if I don't, then I am on the hook for any expenses they incurred in terms of publishing, editing et al.

I would be more than glad to give more information, if that is needed for you folks here to help me out with my dilemma.


----------



## stevesh (Aug 16, 2016)

The name of the publisher might be useful.


----------



## Terry D (Aug 16, 2016)

LunaSturges said:


> I sent out the first four chapters of my novel yesterday to an ebook publisher and received an answer last night. They're a small publisher from the looks of it and the woman who runs it told me in her email to me that she really liked what she saw and asked me to call her.
> 
> I called her and after a half hour long conversation, she told me she would like to publish me and sent off a contract. I haven't signed it yet but wanted to know how to proceed.
> 
> ...



Do some research into the publisher.  A simple Google search should show you something if the business is legit. Also, check them out at this site. 

No, it is not common to make an offer based on sample chapters. It's also not common to hear from an establish publisher the same day you submit. Be wary.


----------



## Aquilo (Aug 16, 2016)

Hi Luna, yes, if you're okay with giving the name of the publisher, that can help.


----------



## LunaSturges (Aug 16, 2016)

Aquilo said:


> Hi Luna, yes, if you're okay with giving the name of the publisher, that can help.



After Hours Publishing.


----------



## aj47 (Aug 16, 2016)

When I google that, I get nothing.  Well, that's not _*quite*_ true.  I get After Hours Press (.com), a semi-annual literary magazine.  I get After Hours Books, an outfit in Jakarta whose LinkedIn page is all about networking with publishers.  I get  After Hours Press (.net) a comic book publisher in NY.  But none of them seem likely to be your folks.  

Sorry.


----------



## LeeC (Aug 16, 2016)

LunaSturges said:


> Also, the contract states that I am to write an additional two books this year and if I don't, then I am on the hook for any expenses they incurred in terms of publishing, editing et al.



In my experience, little as it is, that little bit stands out as a red flag to me. A real up and up traditional publisher wouldn't, I'd think, have a mousetrap in their contract. They might stipulate that a contract could be voided by refusing requested edits or some such, but in all but the most flagrant cases wouldn't have a deep and ill-defined penalty. This strikes me as another parasite. They're essentially asking you to take the burden of risk, and setting a hurdle to trip you up.


----------



## LunaSturges (Aug 16, 2016)

astroannie said:


> When I google that, I get nothing.  Well, that's not _*quite*_ true.  I get After Hours Press (.com), a semi-annual literary magazine.  I get After Hours Books, an outfit in Jakarta whose LinkedIn page is all about networking with publishers.  I get  After Hours Press (.net) a comic book publisher in NY.  But none of them seem likely to be your folks.
> 
> Sorry.



Sorry. That was my mistake.

Here is the website



http://afterhourspublicat.wixsite.com/ahps


----------



## Phil Istine (Aug 16, 2016)

LeeC said:


> In my experience, little as it is, that little bit stands out as a red flag to me. A real up and up traditional publisher wouldn't, I'd think, have a mousetrap in their contract. They might stipulate that a contract could be voided by refusing requested edits or some such, but in all but the most flagrant cases wouldn't have a deep and ill-defined penalty. This strikes me as another parasite. They're essentially asking you to take the burden of risk, and setting a hurdle to trip you up.



This sounds _very_ _dodgy_ to me - pretty typical scammers tactic.  Waft some cheese under the mark's nose and set the mousetrap.  There has been no attempt to hint at what the costs might be - thus leaving it open-ended.
It could actually be good material for a story.


----------



## LunaSturges (Aug 16, 2016)

Thanks so much for the help so far, everyone. I am completely new to this and I don't want to be suckered in by anyone. 

I copy and pasted some of the pertinent stuff that was giving me pause.: (Phil and Lee - I think you two are correct)

"Author is required by PUBLISHER to complete the series under this contract within 18 months of the publication of the first novel in the series. If the Author does not complete the series in that amount of time, Author must cover all cost of publishing up until that point." 


And here is their site: 
 http://afterhourspublicat.wixsite.com/ahps

*"Copyright/ISBN: *Publisher will obtain and assign ISBN (International Standard BookNumbers) for the Work in Print Format Only (for WORKS 30,000 words and above). An ISBN willnot be available on eBooks sold at the PUBLISHER website, and at other vendors (if under 30,000words). The copyright symbol and publication year will be near the Author’s chosen name and/or pen name in the text portion of the said work. *The author has sole responsibility for obtainingofficial copyright through the copyright office.*

X.
*Conflicting Publication: *During the term of this Agreement, the Author shall not, withoutwritten permission of the Publisher, publish or permit to be published any material based upon orincorporating material from the Work or which would compete with its sale or impair the rightsgranted hereunder. (a) Subject to the terms above, the Author agrees that in no event will the Authorpublish or authorize publication of any other book-length work of which the Author is credited underhis/her own name as an author, contributor or collaborator until ONE YEAR after the publication ofthe book(s) under this agreement. Author may not be able to be signed to another Publisher duringthe duration of this contract."


----------



## aj47 (Aug 16, 2016)

Well, they're using a free web site provider (Wix) for their Web site - they don't even have their own domain (.com) address.  That sends all kinds of red flags without my even going to their site.

Edited to add.  I have several .coms and I'm just a person.  They're not *that* expensive.


----------



## LunaSturges (Aug 16, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I had posted a quite wordy reply a few minutes ago but it looks like the Internet ate it.

You've been very helpful so far. I think it is a combo of what I have mentioned already, in addition to the contract also stating I can't publish any other kind of novel genre wise anywhere else until the contract is over that is telling me that I shouldn't sign on the dotted line


----------



## Phil Istine (Aug 16, 2016)

LunaSturges said:


> Thanks for all the replies everyone. I had posted a quite wordy reply a few minutes ago but it looks like the Internet ate it.
> 
> You've been very helpful so far. I think it is a combo of what I have mentioned already, in addition to the contract also stating I can't publish any other kind of novel genre wise anywhere else until the contract is over that is telling me that I shouldn't sign on the dotted line



So, as well as wanting open-ended access to _your_ money for _their_ "expenses", they also want restraint of trade.
They sound terrible, they aren't even any good at scamming.


----------



## Aquilo (Aug 16, 2016)

Warning flags: 

1) Their buy links go straight through to Amazon (all). This suggests they have no distribution except from outlets like Amazon etc. (Any good publisher will also sell directly from their site, as they don't have to pay royalties out to the likes of Amazon on sales made directly from the publisher. And authors benefit the most here too, as with no extra costs coming off per book sold, the more royalties they earn.) 

2) They don't list editors, company owners etc, so you can't see what experience they have in the industry.

3) They don't go into contract details on the site (most will give some detail). Makes me wonder why they're not offering a sample contract. 

4) As Annie stated: Any publisher that can't pay for a website begs the question where else they'll cut costs. I use Wix, but I pay for mine and my domain name.

5) Website's not proofed:  





> it's her desire to push the bounderies of the Lit world by offer stories that



6) Their Facebook site says (with no proofing again): 





> After Hours Publications! Has partner with Royalty Publishing House to  bring you the best in Paranormal, Erotica and Interracial Romance  novels.


 I think they're talking about these guys: Royalty Publishing House, who offer the same setup: direct links to amazon, no details who own the company, who edits for them.

I'm a romance author, and I wouldn't sub to them. For a guide on what a good romance publishing company looks like, E.g., with Dreamspinner Press, the names of the owners are given here and details on editorial policies etc are given as you scroll down here.

There are better publishers out there. 

*Edit* Hmm, looking through the Amazon 'Look Inside' link to the waiting, speech tag repetition is heavy, commas are used after some action (He tilted his head, "And..."), and some simultaneous action too (Getting up,  he strolled over to...). These are basic errors that should have been picked up by any decent proof, let alone structural editor.

Ooh, interesting, the name alongside the above author's name in the Look inside lists AccuProse Editing Service. That editorial service lists a lot of novels by Royalty Publishing House. 

Annnnd Accuprose itself is run by TJ Rose, according to her Facebook page, she also writes for Royalty Publishing house. However, she also has her editorial business named on all After Hours novels:

Novels by After Hours:


> My Sister's Fiance (Kindle Edition)
> 
> by S.E DeVries, Accuprose Editing Services
> 
> ...



 That's not saying it's weird. I contract edit for a publisher and its imprint company, but it's usually the publisher not an outside editorial company that gets mentioned in the cover. Just seems a little weird. *Shrugs*


----------



## LunaSturges (Aug 16, 2016)

Aquilo said:


> Any good publisher will also sell directly from their site, as they don't have to pay royalties out to the likes of Amazon on sales made directly from the publisher.



That's good to know. I've had a teeny tiny bit of success with trad publishing but I am completely new to ebooks.



> speech tag repetition is heavy, commas are used after some action (He tilted his head, "And..."), and some simultaneous action too (Getting up,  he strolled over to...). These are basic errors that should have been picked up by any decent proof, let alone structural editor.



Ugh. I noticed that also once I started looking more in depth at some of the other titles as well. Not that I want to toot my own horn here, but yeah, I think I'll keep trying other publishers before I look into self publishing on Amazon myself.




> That's not saying it's weird. I contract edit for a publisher and its imprint company, but it's usually the publisher not an outside editorial company that gets mentioned in the cover. Just seems a little weird. *Shrugs*



Aquilo - thanks sooo much for the in depth reply. With your help and everyone else's, as well as my own common sense, I've decided to not take up this offer. Besides, I am really not wanting to go their contracted route of having to deliver a new book within sixty days of the previous one being released.


----------



## LeeC (Aug 16, 2016)

Good for you  It can get confusing out there with all the sharks preying on author's dreams. Basically, to me there are only two choices. 

The first is to submit to as many different "traditional publishing" agents and small publishers (the big publishers only deal with agents) as you can uncover. By traditional publishing I mean those that believe your book a viable enough product to invest their own time and money, in return for a percentage of the action. Anyone that has fees (other than maybe a minimal contest entry fee), or other tie in contingencies resulting in fees, is to me a parasite, a sham, or both. When I searched over a year ago there were a couple thousand accredited traditional publishing agents, and several hundred reputable small publishers, here in the U.S. There are additional ones in other countries, but a good number cater predominately to there own citizens. 

Keep in mind that they're businesses that stay afloat by finding books (products) that they believe a good percentage of the reader audience will purchase in their production time frame. You should also be prepared to wait up to six months for an answer from anyone of them. There are many millions of submitters at any given time, so you could say they're neck deep in submissions. 

The second choice is to go it yourself, with an ebook and/or POD. This is a more difficult effort, because you have to do everything yourself and/or pay others for services, and have the drive and patience to maybe succeed. One big hurdle is you've got to be able to switch hats to that of a marketer, and do so in a subtle branding approach, not a blatant advertising manner. Here also, you've got to find you're way and stand out in a quagmire of many more books, I've discovered a good number of well written meaningful books buried in the muck of "fast tracker's" books. Most readers won't go to the effort to dig through the mud. 

Costs here can depend on how much you can do. The first step is writing a good book, which depends on how much you've studied, and especially on how much you have and do read. A very helpful hand in developing is a writer's group like this one, and even that depends on learning over time what's constructive and what's BS. With a beta collective like this site has, and depending on those active there, one can make another significant step towards a polished manuscript. Finding quality editing after such is another hurdle, and depending on your means maybe a costly one. Then there's the book cover and formatting. Unless you're a reasonably skilled graphic designer, with some public experience, it may be better to hire out your book cover. A book cover is the first thing the potential reader sees. As to formatting, if you don't have the technical proficiency to produce epub and mobi book files, or to prepare your book for POD, then there's the cost of hiring such out also. 

Once your book is packaged, then the next step is submitting it to Amazon and/or Smashwords. Be aware that if you've only formatted your book to a .doc fife, the crunch conversion software each uses can leave a bit to be desired. Amazon is the six hundred pound gorilla, having the biggest market share, but some of their policies are a bit restrictive because they can get away with it. On the other hand Smashwords is easier to work with, and their distribution covers all the other retail outlets and libraries of any consequence. If you're careful in how you use Amazon, you can go with both. I can't speak to what's involved with POD as I'm not going that way unless there's enough demand. 

Anyway, beyond base exceptions, a reasonably successful book is one that is well written and has gotten into the hands of enough first readers to give it traction. It's thousands of first readers that will validate your effort in recommending it to others, or kill your dreams in not doing so. Getting your book into the hands of thousands of first readers is where most authors fail. It depends in good part on how well an author can change hats in branding themselves. This latter being something that is also needed in traditional publishing. You get more help, but it still takes a good bit of effort on your part. 

I've gone on far too long, but I'll add that having tried the traditional publishing route, I took the self-publishing route. Some maybe different reasons for that, but my thoughts are confirmed by some traditional publishing acquaintances I made along the way. I wrote eco-fiction because I felt I had something meaningful to say, and my writing approach is to try to make the reader think. Neither is very popular in today's artificial, visual media raised readership.

"_The book to read is not the one that thinks for you, but the one that makes you think._" ~ Harper Lee


----------



## Jay Greenstein (Aug 16, 2016)

First, no legitimate publisher will commit without seeing the entire manuscript. Readying a book for market, just so far as editing, takes well more than forty hours worth of editing. And who, in their right mind, would commit to that without even the assurance that it hangs together till the end?

Next, the requirement that you complete the series is nonsense, Every volume should be related but stand alone. So demanding that you pay them if it's not completed (and they mean to their satisfaction, not just hand them some words) reads too much like a scam to me.

I looked at some of the writing they've released on Amazon and in a word, it's awful. Pure amateur writing. The three I looked at are 100% telling. And many of the reviews were from non-verified customers, which all too often means friends and neighbors.

The short version: Run away.


----------



## LunaSturges (Aug 18, 2016)

> The short version: Run away.



I ran, believe me!


----------



## Aquilo (Aug 18, 2016)

Let us know if you find a home for your story, Luna.


----------



## Jay Greenstein (Aug 18, 2016)

LunaSturges said:


> I ran, believe me!


As a suggestion, if you haven't yet done it, you might want to post a few pages to see if it's ready to query.


----------



## Schrody (Aug 19, 2016)

Jay Greenstein said:


> As a suggestion, if you haven't yet done it, you might want to post a few pages to see if it's ready to query.



But not here (if you don't wanna lose your First Rights), in the *Workshop*


----------



## dale (Aug 19, 2016)

LeeC said:


> In my experience, little as it is, that little bit stands out as a red flag to me. A real up and up traditional publisher wouldn't, I'd think, have a mousetrap in their contract. They might stipulate that a contract could be voided by refusing requested edits or some such, but in all but the most flagrant cases wouldn't have a deep and ill-defined penalty. This strikes me as another parasite. They're essentially asking you to take the burden of risk, and setting a hurdle to trip you up.



not sure about this if the book is part of a series. that might be standard for a series, as no publisher would want to put out a "book one"
without some kind of agreement that the other part or parts would be finished.


----------



## Terry D (Aug 19, 2016)

Series are frequently sold as 'package deals', but only for writers with a track record of success. It's also not uncommon for a publiser to make a deal with an author for a number of books, even if it is not a series. Again the key is the author's sales record. As a first time author you will not be asked to commit to a number of books. The publisher will want to find out if there is a market for your work before they commit their resources.


----------



## Aquilo (Aug 19, 2016)

They also need to know if an author can produce the work too. With romance, though, most Romance publishers will work a right of first refusal for the next book in the series. That just means the author allows that publisher to see the finished novel before offering it elsewhere, but if either party aren't happy, they can both say no and move on to another publisher with the series. Although it's worth noting that selling a second novel in a series to another publisher is very difficult. I'm on my 5th in my series, with a 6th planned, and it's only because the others have sold that I get offered a contract up front for the the 6th novel.


----------

