# Acquiring human test subjects in a science fiction setting



## Outiboros (Oct 6, 2013)

In the planning of my story I've hit a brick wall. Somehow, I can't get around the problem. I hope some outside insight might give me some inspiration.

In short, the problem is this: how does one acquire human test subjects from the age range 15-17 for an experimental project taking many months?

The longer version:
My story takes place in a science fiction setting somewhere in the 2300's, with interstellar travel common and several dozens of planets having been colonised. The research project is a military one, with as goal forming a reliable method of creating artificial intelligences. Part of this process is 'uploading' human brains, creating digital twins, or Gemini.
For reasons purely based in narration I wish these to be as diverse as possible. Diverse subjects would create more confrontations and so fuel the story. Preferably these would be from different planets. For example, some of the test subjects would be supplied by the military, while another subject would be from a colony where a failed revolution had taken place some decades earlier, and be the descendant of one of the insurgents. Furthermore there could be a difference in class - children from the slums versus the military kids, who've had much higher quality of life.

The problem is, what could warrant getting subjects from different planets? Interstellar travel isn't something to joke at, and it takes quite a while. I could handwave it by mumbling something about atmosphere or brain patterns, but I'm attempting to keep it believable.

I'm stuck.


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## egpenny (Oct 6, 2013)

Offer money... think of sperm donors, that's generally volunteer, and done mostly for money.  Not sure about getting them where you need them, but perhaps the centers where this action takes place could be either centrally located or be in a space ships that travel around, taking the different desired samples.


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## Gargh (Oct 6, 2013)

I'd think in terms of how the army gets young recruits - playing on that youthful desire to hard press an 'adult' identity, to run away from something and start a life. Make it an easy option psychologically. As for the diversity - if I think about young migrant populations in cities, they tend to be more diverse than those in smaller, more suburban areas because that's where the opportunities and anonymity exists. Kids travel to London, New York, Paris etc because they want to start a new life, have an identity, make some money in places that have some mythological quality - the 'streets paved with gold' effect. So, I think it would be feasible that your diverse species sample would be just as likely in an equivalent 'capital city' on whichever planet you're using, particularly if the main planet is, in some way, dominant and/or aspirational. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm fumbling around at stupid-o'clock in the morning is that I think the best approach would be to find a reason why they have all already travelled to your main planet. Maybe trade, also?


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## Outiboros (Oct 7, 2013)

Gargh said:


> I'd think in terms of how the army gets young recruits - playing on that youthful desire to hard press an 'adult' identity, to run away from something and start a life. Make it an easy option psychologically. As for the diversity - if I think about young migrant populations in cities, they tend to be more diverse than those in smaller, more suburban areas because that's where the opportunities and anonymity exists. Kids travel to London, New York, Paris etc because they want to start a new life, have an identity, make some money in places that have some mythological quality - the 'streets paved with gold' effect. So, I think it would be feasible that your diverse species sample would be just as likely in an equivalent 'capital city' on whichever planet you're using, particularly if the main planet is, in some way, dominant and/or aspirational. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm fumbling around at stupid-o'clock in the morning is that I think the best approach would be to find a reason why they have all already travelled to your main planet. Maybe trade, also?


Yes, the thought occurred to me to do it like this, and I'll likely have to use it.
I made the mistake of creating a story first and searching for causes later, so I'm left with ideas for character interaction for characters that wouldn't be likely to interact. The main problem is the age of the subjects - I wanted them to be young as to make them more likely to be unruly, to create problems, as well as for their mentality better to fit their newborn 'digital twins', but it leaves me with the problem of parents. This is a long-term research project distanced from normal population centres, and has to be fore the sake of the story.
Orphanages spring into mind. Now, the methods of procuring these subjects don't have to be entirely morally sound - a part of the story is that the project itself is financed and regulated by a dubious military intelligence office. They could have offered money to the subjects, but just as easily they could've offered that money to the orphanages themselves.
I'm getting closer.


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## The Tourist (Oct 7, 2013)

Subjects 15 to 17?  That's easy, put video games in the waiting room and tell them your research is funded by Anheuser-Busch.

For example, I'm a test subject.  I've been told by the researcher that we get to meet Charlize Theron.  It sure makes these numerous, painful electrodes easier to wear.  Oh, we haven't met her yet, maybe next week...


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## Gargh (Oct 7, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> This is a long-term research project distanced from normal population centres, and has to be for the sake of the story.



How about an additional rat-catcher/bounty-hunter style character who sources the subjects for the research company? This is a believable division of work and allows for all the problems to have already been met and conquered by this contracted, soulless bad guy. I'm reminded a little of the King's shilling press-gang technique for the navy during the C19th, but there is also the lure option as well - you could have a siren rather than a bad guy, a bit like Mrs Coulter in the Northern Lights trilogy. 

It's difficult trying to retrofit a plot point isn't it? I'm still struggling with one myself, almost a year after the story was written, I'll never make that mistake again! :stung:


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## Outiboros (Oct 7, 2013)

Gargh said:


> How about an additional rat-catcher/bounty-hunter style character who sources the subjects for the research company? This is a believable division of work and allows for all the problems to have already been met and conquered by this contracted, soulless bad guy. I'm reminded a little of the King's shilling press-gang technique for the navy during the C19th, but there is also the lure option as well - you could have a siren rather than a bad guy, a bit like Mrs Coulter in the Northern Lights trilogy.
> 
> It's difficult trying to retrofit a plot point isn't it? I'm still struggling with one myself, almost a year after the story was written, I'll never make that mistake again! :stung:


I'd definitely take that route if it was an underground, clandestine project, done with rusty needles and a perpetually drunk doctor. But the problem isn't so much finding a way to pick the subjects as to justify picking them at all.
The current way I'm thinking of is simply having the Doctor pick her subjects from an orphanage, since it'd defeat the problems with parents and family and such. Seeing as the project isn't without its dangers it would make sense to use those who aren't missed by society in any case. 

Dangerously off topic: how is Northern Lights? I'm running low on books. Also, yes, retrofitting is a pain. It happens to me every time - I think of plot elements that aren't directly in line with the rest but are too alluring for me to give up.


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## Gargh (Oct 7, 2013)

Does the project require genetic diversity... or have the experiments on one species fared better than others? Is there a class issue that erodes the rights of certain species that would make using them more palatable? Although I've personally always felt that large, clean-fronted establishments are just as likely to be using clandestine methods as underground ones.

As for Northern Lights... it's been a while since I read them. They're a bit theosophically clunky and the children are a little 2d... and because you spend most of your time in the children's POV this can be a little frustrating because they're VERY naive. However, I enjoyed reading them - they require quite a leap of imagination and you often end up chewing something you're not quite sure what it is, which I personally like, intellectually speaking. They don't feel like they started off as children's books though... or are quite finished. Definitely worth a nibble on the first one though to see if you like the taste.


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## Outiboros (Oct 7, 2013)

Gargh said:


> Does the project require genetic diversity... or have the experiments on one species fared better than others? Is there a class issue that erodes the rights of certain species that would make using them more palatable? Although I've personally always felt that large, clean-fronted establishments are just as likely to be using clandestine methods as underground ones.
> 
> As for Northern Lights... it's been a while since I read them. They're a bit theosophically clunky and the children are a little 2d... and because you spend most of your time in the children's POV this can be a little frustrating because they're VERY naive. However, I enjoyed reading them - they require quite a leap of imagination and you often end up chewing something you're not quite sure what it is, which I personally like, intellectually speaking. They don't feel like they started off as children's books though... or are quite finished. Definitely worth a nibble on the first one though to see if you like the taste.


I should've specified - I'm trying to make this hard science fiction. So no Hyperspace but Alcubierre drives, no alien plants but terraforming and genetic manipulation, no alien species but human colonial populations, no energy crystals but fusion power, no warp gates but boron nitride nano-tube space elevators. 
Genetic diversity, or rather simply phenotypical diversity, is most likely the reason I'll use for having a diverse group of kids. It makes sense - with technology as experimental as this you'll want to have a diverse subject base.


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## Cran (Oct 7, 2013)

If you don't mind a bunch of rogues with authority issues but evident survival potential, a good resource would be juvenile detention facilities. The rationale for selection could be an offshoot of Gargh's suggestion; building discipline through basic training and defense force apprenticeships (we had the latter here in Oz, taking students from 15 to 17 yrs of age).


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## Morkonan (Oct 8, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> In the planning of my story I've hit a brick wall. Somehow, I can't get around the problem. I hope some outside insight might give me some inspiration.
> 
> In short, the problem is this: how does one acquire human test subjects from the age range 15-17 for an experimental project taking many months?



I'll try to help - I've actually acquired human test subjects for experimental purposes, in real life. 



> ...The problem is, what could warrant getting subjects from different planets? Interstellar travel isn't something to joke at, and it takes quite a while. I could handwave it by mumbling something about atmosphere or brain patterns, but I'm attempting to keep it believable.
> 
> I'm stuck.



You're not stuck, I'm from _The Lab_ and I am here to help...

OK, first off, you've identified your purpose - You're creating an AI and need the consciousness of 15-17 year olds for some reason. OK, fine. First, you have to explain *why*. Why do you need them? If I were you, I would choose a suitably believable purpose - The adult brain does not really come into existence until the age of 21+ years and the human brain generally solidifies it's preferred use of language by age 12 or so, max. (Children in multilingual households generally gravitate towards one language by age 9 or so, give or take, unless they are constantly reinforced not to.) So, your researchers have identified areas in the human brain that are in their prime, particularly the language areas, at around this age. At this age, in your Setting, it is believed that this is the apex of language aptitude, when the adolescent brain is most susceptible to being influenced to develop mature language skills. (Probably wouldn't be far from the truth.) Since language is very closely tied to intelligence, this is a quality you are going to obviously want to have.

In order to get a nice random sample, you need the largest sampling population you can get your hands on. Since space-travel is common in your setting, there really isn't much of a fiscal burden on the project to transport adolescents from all across your space-faring empire. After all, this is an important project, right? This is _A Very Big Deal ™_ in your Setting, right? This is a project that has a lot of financial backing and, likely, some very powerful people pushing buttons, right? If so, don't worry about your test subjects being gathered from all over the galaxy - Willy Wonka brought kids from all over the World, just to see a chocolate factory. And it made the International News, for crying out loud! I think you can ferry a few teenagers around without worrying too much.

In order to get the candidates, you should have some sort of general application phase. Depending upon how your setting views individual freedoms and personal liberty, this application phase can be compulsory or voluntary, your choice. Tied with the application should be some sort of benefit for the applicants (If voluntary) and the families that will have to do without them, for a short/long period of time. Education for the applicant, admission to a special school for privileged government workers, drugs that give them immortality or immunity to some nasty disease, whatever.. Now, once you have your large pool of possible candidates, a random sampling occurs and that is directed by the central testing facility. From that random sampling, names are drawn and the applicants are notified and transported to the central facility where the testing is to be done. At that central facility, or before, the applicants are double-checked for age and brain development - You want healthy brains of the correct age. Anyone who doesn't have a healthy brain meeting your imaginary criteria or who has attempted to fake their age (or didn't realize how old they really were) is disqualified. If they were duplicitous, they get punished. If they just made an honest mistake, they may still get punished. They'll also have to be screened for drug use, mental problems, hormone issues and other physiological things that you can make up and justify, to the reader, with ease.

The pre-testing would be done with something like a questionnaire, while the intensive scrutiny would be done at the main facility, for practical AND story purposes - You could have quite a bit of fun with having all your characters together and letting them go through all these trials in one location. What if one of them knew that they had some sort of problem or were actually younger/older than they should have been? What if all the others had to help them escape detection or to escape, literally, lest they be severely punished?


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## The Tourist (Oct 8, 2013)

Morkonan said:


> In order to get a nice random sample, you need the largest sampling population you can get your hands on.



Ahhh, I think you're onto something there!

Coming from a business background, I'd choose middle managers.  Let me explain.

They do have some intelligence, because they do have an existing record of promotion by talent or cunning.  They are "random" in nature because they could never parlay that quality, whatever it was, into anything else.

From the practical standpoint, they are biodegradable, no one will ever miss them, and they rotate into and out of the workplace so often that most people will accept the excuse that, _"They found a better position and just moved on."_

You could even create a logical cover like, _"Harvey's talents led us to transfer him to a position in our Soylent Divison.  It must be working out, we haven't had any complaints..."_


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## Outiboros (Oct 8, 2013)

Morkonan said:


> I'll try to help - I've actually acquired human test subjects for experimental purposes, in real life.
> You're not stuck, I'm from _The Lab_ and I am here to help...


Thanks for the input! I'll ramble along a bit. It seems to do my inspiration good - it's worked so far in this thread.



Morkonan said:


> OK, first off, you've identified your purpose - You're creating an AI and need the consciousness of 15-17 year olds for some reason. OK, fine. First, you have to explain *why*. Why do you need them? If I were you, I would choose a suitably believable purpose - The adult brain does not really come into existence until the age of 21+ years and the human brain generally solidifies it's preferred use of language by age 12 or so, max. (Children in multilingual households generally gravitate towards one language by age 9 or so, give or take, unless they are constantly reinforced not to.) So, your researchers have identified areas in the human brain that are in their prime, particularly the language areas, at around this age. At this age, in your Setting, it is believed that this is the apex of language aptitude, when the adolescent brain is most susceptible to being influenced to develop mature language skills. (Probably wouldn't be far from the truth.) Since language is very closely tied to intelligence, this is a quality you are going to obviously want to have.



A part of the story is that, even in this futuristic age of 2300, the brain isn't completely understood. Realistic or not, I mostly do this because I myself do not understand the brain. It's a story about minds, not about brains. It's not a neurobiology thesis - mostly because I couldn't write one. Likewise, there are very complicated computer programs running very complicated tasks, but they are not intelligent. Intelligence can be simulated, not artificially made - not without copying a living brain, as is the case in this project.
I'll most likely take the quite vague reason of synaptic pruning being in an earlier stage in younger specimens. I should specify - the resulting AI is hardly a digital clone, more a case of dizygotic that identical twins. Skills don't carry over 1:1. In any case, this reason will be more a practical than a theoretical one: previous research stated as much and they're expanding on that. I think I can safely handwave it this way.



Morkonan said:


> In order to get a nice random sample, you need the largest sampling population you can get your hands on. Since space-travel is common in your setting, there really isn't much of a fiscal burden on the project to transport adolescents from all across your space-faring empire. After all, this is an important project, right? This is _A Very Big Deal ™_ in your Setting, right? This is a project that has a lot of financial backing and, likely, some very powerful people pushing buttons, right? If so, don't worry about your test subjects being gathered from all over the galaxy - Willy Wonka brought kids from all over the World, just to see a chocolate factory. And it made the International News, for crying out loud! I think you can ferry a few teenagers around without worrying too much.


While it could have been _A Very Big Deal ™, _and still is in a way, it's not quite the Chocolate Factory. The previous researcher attempting the method was, in general, A Bastard, and started using young human specimens before he figured out how to keep them alive until the procedure was over. This and other reasons have set a bit of bad blood about neurotechnology in general and this issue specifically, which is why the people pressing the buttons would rather not have this turning up in the International News.
I'm using this to keep the sampling population low: I can't have two thousand characters running around, because if I did I couldn't find an excuse for only a few of those getting the spotlight.



Morkonan said:


> In order to get the candidates, you should have some sort of general application phase. Depending upon how your setting views individual freedoms and personal liberty, this application phase can be compulsory or voluntary, your choice. Tied with the application should be some sort of benefit for the applicants (If voluntary) and the families that will have to do without them, for a short/long period of time. Education for the applicant, admission to a special school for privileged government workers, drugs that give them immortality or immunity to some nasty disease, whatever.. Now, once you have your large pool of possible candidates, a random sampling occurs and that is directed by the central testing facility. From that random sampling, names are drawn and the applicants are notified and transported to the central facility where the testing is to be done. At that central facility, or before, the applicants are double-checked for age and brain development - You want healthy brains of the correct age. Anyone who doesn't have a healthy brain meeting your imaginary criteria or who has attempted to fake their age (or didn't realize how old they really were) is disqualified. If they were duplicitous, they get punished. If they just made an honest mistake, they may still get punished. They'll also have to be screened for drug use, mental problems, hormone issues and other physiological things that you can make up and justify, to the reader, with ease.


I might pick a method like this one for the second phase of the project... the problem is, while I could see people signing up themselves I couldn't see people signing up their children. It'd be like selling your kid to Josef Mengele. That, and advertising to the public that you're doing this research at all would have them lining up indeed, but with torches rather than with tickets.
Most likely I'll have the Doctor pick the sampling base out of orphanages, based first on their medical logs and second on a personal evaluation.



Morkonan said:


> The pre-testing would be done with something like a questionnaire, while the intensive scrutiny would be done at the main facility, for practical AND story purposes - You could have quite a bit of fun with having all your characters together and letting them go through all these trials in one location. What if one of them knew that they had some sort of problem or were actually younger/older than they should have been? What if all the others had to help them escape detection or to escape, literally, lest they be severely punished?


Yes, that's what I had planned - one central testing location and several of the kids who didn't exactly tell the entire story.


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## The Tourist (Oct 8, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> It's a story about minds, not about brains. It's not a neurobiology thesis - mostly because I couldn't write one. Likewise, there are very complicated computer programs running very complicated tasks, but they are not intelligent.



This is the overall idea of "Robocop."  How do we get the benefits of the human brain coupled with the durability and parts interchangeability of machines.  And we can feed the thing cheap baby food...

I would research products and inventions based on marrying transitional devices to cutting edge technologies.  Let me give you a few examples.

There were lots of cap and ball revolvers still in use when cartridges came out.  Lots of these were converted.  (See the link.)

The 1989 Ford Mustang.  It married upcoming computer technology to existing engine design, and even an electronic interface to the older compressor driven A/C system.

The automatic conversions of the Buck 110 and 112.  There's a cottage industry out there making switchblades of traditional hunting knives.

As you can probably guess, I have my own opinions on the examples and Robocop.  All of the items were probably needed to make one jump to the next.  In my lifetime each transition was a problematic, fragile abomination.  Each had a very short duration, but opened up innovation to the ultimate solution.

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/1860-colt-army.html


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## Outiboros (Oct 8, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> This is the overall idea of "Robocop."  How do we get the benefits of the human brain coupled with the durability and parts interchangeability of machines.  And we can feed the thing cheap baby food...
> 
> I would research products and inventions based on marrying transitional devices to cutting edge technologies.  Let me give you a few examples.
> 
> ...


Precisely. And with making AI from human brains you've got another advantage - humans are in large supply and can be constructed by uneducated workers.
I'm not sure it'll quite resemble any of those, though - with newborn AI it's not as much about improving the technology than 'teaching' that technology.


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## Morkonan (Oct 8, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> ...I'm using this to keep the sampling population low: I can't have two thousand characters running around, because if I did I couldn't find an excuse for only a few of those getting the spotlight.



Sure ya could! All you have to do is use Jedi Midichlorians.. or whatever. That's how Lucus did it.. the sorry so-and-so. IOW - Make something up and tell it to the Reader. Readers are gullible, they'll believe everything you tell them, for awhile.  (Just justify it with sufficient handwaving and multisyllable words.)



> Most likely I'll have the Doctor pick the sampling base out of orphanages, based first on their medical logs and second on a personal evaluation.



Good choice.



> Yes, that's what I had planned - one central testing location and several of the kids who didn't exactly tell the entire story.



Yup, the story screams for some rejects! The Reader will _want_ to enjoy seeing what happens when the "perfect selection process" backfires on the power-players in the culture/setting/experiment. If you don't have any Rejects, rejected for whatever sort of reason, the Reader will definitely take notice.


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## Nickleby (Oct 9, 2013)

How about a second, dummy project? The Doctor tells the government he's developing a program to (for example) create cybernetically enhanced soldiers. When the army asks for progress reports, they get variations of "Reply hazy, ask again later."

The cybersoldier project has two purposes. One, cover up the real Gemini project, and two, provide a stream of volunteers who can be screened for Gemini. If they aren't suitable for Gemini, they spend a few weeks doing pointless things and then go home.

Why volunteers? Well, in some places it's voluntary, and in some places it's not. If you look at it as a potential improvement in the species, it sounds great--send your kid. It also sounds dangerous--send someone else's kid, someone we won't miss. That gives you the excuse to mix and match your characters.


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## Outiboros (Oct 10, 2013)

Nickleby said:


> How about a second, dummy project? The Doctor tells the government he's developing a program to (for example) create cybernetically enhanced soldiers. When the army asks for progress reports, they get variations of "Reply hazy, ask again later."
> 
> The cybersoldier project has two purposes. One, cover up the real Gemini project, and two, provide a stream of volunteers who can be screened for Gemini. If they aren't suitable for Gemini, they spend a few weeks doing pointless things and then go home.
> 
> Why volunteers? Well, in some places it's voluntary, and in some places it's not. If you look at it as a potential improvement in the species, it sounds great--send your kid. It also sounds dangerous--send someone else's kid, someone we won't miss. That gives you the excuse to mix and match your characters.


I'm not so sure about this. I'm already knee deep in details that aren't that important to the plot but have to stand to keep the plot somewhat realistic, and setting up an entire dummy project would take too much attention away from Gemini itself. That, and the Doctor is working for what is effectively a branch of the army and has a security team from the army. The army is 'in'. The reason for it being a black project is to keep it away from civilian officials and the public.


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