# Waking up in the first person narrative



## DavidR

Hello, my name is David.
I came across an idea for a story that stumped me, and it has lead me here.

I'm trying to begin a first person narrative with my protagonist groggily waking up in an unfamiliar location.  Now I understand to place myself into the character's POV and describe the story through their thoughts and feelings.  Yet this is an unique case where they aren't fully conscious and I'm wondering how I can show that in a first person narrative meant to be told in the present tense.

I don't want to briefly assume a third person narrative to describe their surroundings, I want both them, the protagonist AND reader to be groggy and unaware as they slowly come to visualize their situation.  Such that the reader feels "they" just groggily woke up in an unfamiliar location.

Thank you,


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## JosephB

I guess you'll have to use your imagination. I've awakened a number of times groggily and in an unknown location. It's just like any other time when you wake up, only it takes longer and at some point you say, holy cow, where am I? Then you have to figure out how you got there and where you parked your car. If there's someone next to you, that can sometimes be a help -- but not if you can't remember her name. And it's a good idea to check your wallet and see if you have any money left.


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## Terry D

​Here's a small sample of how I might try to do what you describe._

I awake with a dull pain underlying the numbness in my right arm, and am enveloped by the stench of rotting leaves. Even before I open my eyes I know I'm not at home.  The air is heavy and damp, pressing against my skin like a clammy shroud.  Where am I?

When I do decide to open my eyes my vision is sleep-blurred and untrustworthy.  All I see are moving shapes of light and dark, of color and shadow--an indistinct, alien, jig-saw puzzle.  I try to rub away the sleep fogging my vision with the fingers of my left hand (the right still feels dead and will not obey my directions), and while I do, one of the jig-saw shadows speaks._


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## Kevin

JosephB said:


> I guess you'll have to use your imagination. I've awakened a number of times groggily and in an unknown location.....And it's a good idea to check your wallet and see if you have any money left.


 Funny, first thing I thought of.


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## dolphinlee

Just a thought. If you want to emphasis the groggyness of the MC, why not have him slur his thoughts. 

I'm thinking of the way writers write the dialogue of drunks.


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## Jon M

Just whatever you do, try not to make it read like a play-by-play. Experiment with surreal imagery, and story structure. 

"My mouth tastes like the underside of someone's boot. Somehow, between last night at the bar with -- what was her name? -- and this moment now, it appears I've stumbled into a world of giant, singing men. This man beside me, who I know only by the rolling, thundering sound of his voice, has no head, or if he has a head it is fuzzy and lost in the clouds. He keeps talking, on and on and on keeps talking, and his voice has this weird way of lifting into a crescendo before every pause. I don't know. My head hurts."


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## Foxee

You have to put yourself into the point of view of the character. Consider what his senses (the five senses, plus there is one more: sense of the unknown) are telling him and write ONLY that. You are on the right track with not wanting the reader to know more than the character does, it'll help make them curious which is good! I'll mention one more thing after I write you a short example text so stay tuned!

Here's how I might write this groggy awakening. I'm going to imagine a random location so this won't even resemble what you'll write other than the tense and structure. Here we go, first person, present tense.

*There is the smell of rubbing alcohol, sharp and distinct. My eyelids feel weighted shut, light glowing through them in a reddish-yellow assurance that at least I haven't been dumped in a dark alley. My brain is awake now, with a primal surge of adrenaline that should carry me up to standing but cold, **heavy** limbs disobey. A background noise, a soft intermittenet electronic chirp, comes to the forefront now as it gathers speed, the chirps closer together.

The shuffle of footsteps bring warm fingers that press my arm lightly.*_* "Ah, you're awake." A pleasant voice.

I'm grateful until I smell a rush of alcohol and feel it wet my inner arm. It must be a needle that bites deep as the soothing voice speaks again.

"We'll soon take care of that."*
_
Now for the additional note: The "Waking up in a strange place" approach is done a lot but still can be very effective. Put yourself in the character's place. Edit your wording down so that it is economical, that will help to convey some of the anxiety that you want.

Good luck!


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## dolphinlee

I'm not sure that some of these examples would portray groggy to me. Some of them are written in such precise language about clearly observed stimuli that I am getting the idea that the person has decided to lie down for a moment with his eyes closed. 

David it might be worth editing your post and emphasising the word groggy.


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## Foxee

Okay, if I screwed that up write it more groggily. *sigh* Maybe fragment the thoughts (sentences) but don't do it so much that it's annoying.

*wonders why I do this*


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## dolphinlee

Foxee

You do this because you are a kind soul who wants to help others. There aren't enough kind souls who give carefully considered comments on this site. 


Foxee I loved what you wrote. It was detailed, descriptive and flowed. If this came off the top of your head please never, ever tell me, cos if you do I will set fire to my computer and never write another word.


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## Nickleby

I once started a story with the protagonist waking up hungover and in a Russian prison. His first impressions came from the various sources of pain and worked down the list. A pounding headache, then a creaking dry mouth, then a tight sore belly, and so on. (Not that I have much experience with hangovers.) Only after he had taken stock of his internal state did he open his eyes. Darkness. He couldn't be sure of what he was looking at. He had to verify his surroundings by touch--a scratchy blanket, a stone wall, a steel door. He heard faint voices ...

Use your imagination. That's what writers do. Put yourself in the character's place and try to think the way he would in that situation. Then put it all into words that will communicate that state of mind to the reader. Writing is simple and diabolically complex all at the same time.


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## Foxee

dolphinlee said:


> Foxee
> 
> You do this because you are a kind soul who wants to help others. There aren't enough kind souls who give carefully considered comments on this site.
> 
> 
> Foxee I loved what you wrote. It was detailed, descriptive and flowed. If this came off the top of your head please never, ever tell me, cos if you do I will set fire to my computer and never write another word.


Thanks! You're way too kind.

I have to admit, that did come off the top of my head after a long, exhausting, and generally discouraging day. Before you torch your computer, though, I'll admit that I edited it pretty carefully before I hit the button to post it. (Good thing I did, too).

Now you can still write stuff.


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## dolphinlee

Fir   start d   b for  I  r ad  th   full   ost.   Monitor  is  OK  but  the  k yboard  is   missing  som  im ortant  k ys.


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## Staff Deployment

If you're writing with pen and paper, use a leaky pen. Then when you're done, just _smear ink everywhere now everything's all groggy and incomprehensible_


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## qwertyman

My advice is don't start with a person awakening.  It's not quite as bad as somebody waking with a hangover/amnesia or even worse, a dream sequence (wince).

 Never, in your first paragraph, mention the phrases 'vortex of despair' or 'blurred outline of...'

Start with the MC an hour after he awoke and refer back to it.

#

The waitress brought the coffee.  It was hot and that was all that mattered.  I emptied my pockets on to the formica table top.  My keys were gone. I already knew it wasn't my lucky day.  I knew it an hour ago when I'd been woken by a rat washing it's face on my chest...


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## Morkonan

DavidR said:


> Hello, my name is David.
> I came across an idea for a story that stumped me, and it has lead me here.
> 
> I'm trying to begin a first person narrative with my protagonist groggily waking up in an unfamiliar location.  Now I understand to place myself into the character's POV and describe the story through their thoughts and feelings.  Yet this is an unique case where they aren't fully conscious and I'm wondering how I can show that in a first person narrative meant to be told in the present tense.
> 
> I don't want to briefly assume a third person narrative to describe their surroundings, I want both them, the protagonist AND reader to be groggy and unaware as they slowly come to visualize their situation.  Such that the reader feels "they" just groggily woke up in an unfamiliar location.
> 
> Thank you,



Clipped sentences. Short sensory descriptions. Irrational or out-of-place associations and comparisons. Fleeting images and imagery that connect the reader to someone "groggy and unaware." That's how you do it.

Since every bit of advice should offer a demonstration, where possible, here's a quick and likely terrible example, since it ain't exactly easy to do: 

_Home. Darla's hands in my hair, her arm around my side and me at peace. The train was coming, its heat on my face. Trestles clacking in the wind - I don't have my ticket. I lost it in the war and the rain washed it away. The conductor screams and rips the cowl from my cold body and the funeral boy laughs.

I awoke to the cry of a gull. Splayed amongst the tack and the remnants of the Indomitable's weather deck, I rested under the watchful and somewhat insulted eye of a particularly annoyed seagull. Around me, the Indomitable's remains lay scattered and broken amongst the rocks. One lone and tattered remnant of a sail argued with the breeze._


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## Jeko

Read Lord Loss, first of Darren Shan's Demonata series (if you already have, read it again). After the first 'act' of the story, there's a section where the mind of the character is pretty messed up. He experiences things in a hazy, groggy fashion. 

It's written in first person, present tense. I think it's just the kind of storytelling you're looking for, that section of the story.


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## alanmt

The best way to approach this is write it out, post 9 more times on the forum so you get posting privileges, and then post your excerpt for hands-on feedback.

If you google Motley Press Extraordinary Rains, you find a story where I did this in third person.  

On the off chance that your main character is waking up after a knock-out drug, throwing up is likely to be high on the list of first things he or she does.


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## Leyline

qwertyman said:


> My advice is don't start with a person awakening.  It's not quite as bad as somebody waking with a hangover/amnesia or even worse, a dream sequence (wince).
> 
> Never, in your first paragraph, mention the phrases 'vortex of despair' or 'blurred outline of...'
> 
> Start with the MC an hour after he awoke and refer back to it.
> 
> #
> 
> The waitress brought the coffee.  It was hot and that was all that mattered.  I emptied my pockets on to the formica table top.  My keys were gone. I already knew it wasn't my lucky day.  I knew it an hour ago when I'd been woken by a rat washing it's face on my chest...



Pretty much exactly what I was going to say, in substance if not in form.

Seriously, David, unless you're planning something wildly inventive, it comes across as a cliche. It's a beginning that's been so overused that it tends to put the people who read to select for publication (editors, agents and the all powerful slush soldiers) right off a manuscript. 

But, as I said, if you do it in some wildly inventive way, more power to you. 

Best of luck.


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## Jeko

I like cliches. If we avoided cliches all the time, they'd stop being cliches and we'd have other, new cliches to worry about. Don't worry about them. Write the story how you want to write it - then you're telling the truth. Worry about making it likeable once its all written, and all how you want it to be.


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## Kevin

How 'bout if they woke up and they were a large bug, something like a cockroach or a beetle, completely unaware of how they became so, and having lost all ability to speak?


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## Jon M

Don't agree with the advice to just avoid it. OP wants to know how to do it, and most of the advice in this thread is essentially the same: your prose style should mimic the events of the story. Surreal, irrational imagery, clipped sentences, etc. are all worthwhile techniques. Careful not to overdo it, though. Seems like it is similar to colloquial language -- super easy to do badly, hard to get right, and probably best in small doses.


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## Jon M

Morkonan said:


> _One lone and tattered remnant of a sail *argued* with the breeze._


Off topic, but ...

Wow, loved this.


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## Foxee

Jon M said:


> Don't agree with the advice to just avoid it. OP wants to know how to do it, and most of the advice in this thread is essentially the same: your prose style should mimic the events of the story. Surreal, irrational imagery, clipped sentences, etc. are all worthwhile techniques. Careful not to overdo it, though. Seems like it is similar to colloquial language -- super easy to do badly, hard to get right, and probably best in small doses.


I absolutely agree with Jon. Just because something is done often is not a reason not to do it at all, it just means that you're going to have to bring your A-game.

I feel like trying another, groggier awakening in first person present tense (who doesn't like a challenge?) so...*cracks knuckles one at a time and begins*:

*Fuzzy tongue. Ohgod, let me go, don't like the rocking horse. Where's-- no horses. Crawling, floor hit me in the face, tried to hang on, it went away. Throwing up feels bad. Hit by the floor again. Dammit. Falling way down, hit again, stinks, no blanket. Dark? Dark. Damn floor, stay up or down. Lay down peanut butter, I mean me. 

My senses, knocked into the outfield. I remember whassname's ball bat. Do I know him? Can't remember. Lying on wet wood, shivering, hanging on to nothing much as a cold spray wets me. There is the smell of the sea mingled with my own vomit.

I'm gonna find wassname and show him what he can do with that bat. Right now I just hope he's not here.*

Hopefully it's okay that the grogginess kinda lifts after a bit. You could keep it going for a while if you wanted.



Jon M said:


> Off topic, but ...
> 
> Wow, loved this.


me too.


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## Leyline

Foxee said:


> I absolutely agree with Jon. Just because something is done often is not a reason not to do it at all, it just means that you're going to have to bring your A-game.




Which is, basically, what I said.

_That_ said, I not long ago read a long, raucous interview with a bunch of slush readers and almost all of them included 'Opening with the MC waking up,' on their lists of 'How to get your manuscript rejected on the first page.' 

So, there's that.


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## Jeko

> _That_ said, I not long ago read a long, raucous interview with a bunch of slush readers and almost all of them included 'Opening with the MC waking up,' on their lists of 'How to get your manuscript rejected on the first page.'
> 
> So, there's that.



I think there is a big difference between what you write as your story, and what you try to get published. Your 'manuscript' is usually different to your original draft, so to speak. So it's fine to do cliches and the like at first. No point worrying about it.


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## Leyline

Cadence said:


> I think there is a big difference between what you write as your story, and what you try to get published. Your 'manuscript' is usually different to your original draft, so to speak. So it's fine to do cliches and the like at first. No point worrying about it.



Then why ask for advice in the first place?


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## Jeko

What I said was advice.


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## Jeko

To clarify further, the statement was made that



> I'm trying to begin a first person narrative with my protagonist groggily waking up in an unfamiliar location



So saying that you shouldn't do that, it's not a good idea, you'll need to do it really well - that isn't going to help, I don't think.


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## Leyline

Cadence said:


> To clarify further, the statement was made that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So saying that you shouldn't do that, it's not a good idea, you'll need to do it really well - that isn't going to help, I don't think.




I disagree. If someone tells me they've got a brilliant science fiction idea where astronauts are stranded on an uninhabited planet and the last line shockingly reveals: "...and their names were Adam and Eve." I'm going to counsel against it.

 To be honest, I don't see how your advice, which boils down to 'Oh, it'll all work out in the end,' is very helpful either.

  But whatever. I didn't even try to dissuade him, and wished him luck. I was pointing out a bias in the publishing industry that he may not have known about. I'd do the same for a friend or relative who asked me the same thing.


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## Jeko

> If someone tells me they've got a brilliant science fiction idea where astronauts are stranded on an uninhabited planet and the last line shockingly reveals: "...and their names were Adam and Eve." I'm going to counsel against it.



I'm unsure why. It is their idea, is it not? What the writer wants should come first. Then, when you want to get published, you start tailoring it to other audiences.

Sometimes, what the writer wants is also what the reader wants. Sometimes it isn't. 

My advice was to avoid that which would put other minds, other critics, first. That only limits, stifles and disrupts creativity in my experience. My advice does not say it'll work out in the end. My advice says it will all turn out as what you, the writer, want it to be. Not agent X who may one day recieve your query letter. There is advice for people who want to get published, and advice for people who want to tell stories.

Don't think I'm responding directly to what you said. I'm talking about the whole shibang of these ideas that we should do that, and we shouldn't do that, when we're writing our stories. I had a thread about it recently.

Better a writer writes their own complete paff than someone else's half-decent manufactured audience-tailored 'story'. You can turn complete paff into great writing. You can't turn someone else's work into your own, though. It will never be truly yours.

DavidR: do what you want, and put it first!


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## Foxee

> _That_ said, I not long ago read a long, raucous interview with a  bunch of slush readers and almost all of them included 'Opening with the  MC waking up,' on their lists of 'How to get your manuscript rejected  on the first page.'



I would make a small distinction here between having your MC waking up in the morning and going about their day (I wince, I have done this) when you don't take the time to think of a better way to start...and having your MC wake up groggily in an unfamiliar place. 

The first shows either a lack of imagination or laziness the second gives you a chance to set a really interesting scene.

I would avoid the first one unless for some reason (and I can't think of that reason) that it was absolutely essential to start that way. There are so many better ways to start than 'waking up in the morning' if you take the time to think about it. But that's not what we're discussing here.

Also, if you really want to be published and slush readers don't like either approach then this is a distinction without a difference. Not being published is very easy, unfortunately. I wish I knew exactly what those slushers had in mind.


Cadence said:


> I think there is a big difference between what  you write as your story, and what you try to get published. Your  'manuscript' is usually different to your original draft, so to speak.  So it's fine to do cliches and the like at first. No point worrying  about it.


It never hurts to know things, though, Cadence, and it can definitely hurt not to know.


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## Jeko

> (I wince, I have done this)



I weep, in comparison to your wincing. I have done that kind of casual style many times - overall, I hate it now. That's the reason I avoid it. Not because it's appartantly bad. Because I think it's bad.


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## Foxee

Cadence said:


> I weep, in comparison to your wincing. I have done that kind of casual style many times - overall, I hate it now. That's the reason I avoid it. Not because it's appartantly bad. Because I think it's bad.


There's a book you (and others here) may like called Writing for the Soul by Jerry B. Jenkins. It's on my bedside table and I read it over again between other things.


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## Jeko

> It never hurts to know things, though, Cadence, and it can definitely hurt not to know.



I like to know more and more about writing. But whenever I learn something, I think - do I want to use this? Do I want to follow this advice, this guideline, this idea? We, as writers, are more than machines that should do this and not do that. We decide things for ourselves!

Yes, we should always want know more. But there is surely a difference between 'people say that's wrong' and 'I shouldn't do that'.

Seems we're talking about rules again...


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## Leyline

Cadence said:


> I'm unsure why. It is their idea, is it not? What the writer wants should come first. Then, when you want to get published, you start tailoring it to other audiences.
> 
> 
> Sometimes, what the writer wants is also what the reader wants. Sometimes it isn't.
> 
> My advice was to avoid that which would put other minds, other critics, first. That only limits, stifles and disrupts creativity in my experience. My advice does not say it'll work out in the end. My advice says it will all turn out as what you, the writer, want it to be. Not agent X who may one day recieve your query letter. There is advice for people who want to get published, and advice for people who want to tell stories.
> 
> Don't think I'm responding directly to what you said. I'm talking about the whole shibang of these ideas that we should do that, and we shouldn't do that, when we're writing our stories. I had a thread about it recently.
> 
> Better a writer writes their own complete paff than someone else's half-decent manufactured audience-tailored 'story'. You can turn complete paff into great writing. You can't turn someone else's work into your own, though. It will never be truly yours.
> 
> DavidR: do what you want, and put it first!



I'm not quite sure what your heartfelt declaration has to do with one writer politely letting another writer know about a bias in the publishing industry. I did not tell him not to write the scene. I simply informed him of a fact. I didn't exactly call him a fool to consider it or begin crying doomsday. I even wished him luck in finding an inventive way to handle it. In no sense did I attempt to dictate how he should write. 

Another fact is that you have no idea what his desire might be. For all you know, publication is paramount in his mind. 

And please don't lecture me about following my own path. I've been writing for thirty five years and have lost out on sales for refusing to alter parts of stories I didn't think needed altering. I don't do outlines, drafts or any of that. I sit down and start writing and make it up as I go along and if I stop enjoying it I stop writing and move onto another story.

The ironic thing is that you are yourself attempting to dictate another writers process with your 'what the writer wants should come first', since -- sometimes -- what the writer wants is to sell their work and have it tailored to an audience. You aren't one of those people, fine. Neither am I. But those people do exist and might actually be grateful to be informed of the way the wind blows amongst those who accept and buy writing.

Anyway, this is all ridiculously off topic. Apologies, David, for the diversion in your thread. I'm out.

Once again, best of luck.


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## Jeko

> There's a book you (and others here) may like called Writing for the Soul by Jerry B. Jenkins.



Alas, I have vowed to never get a book on writing. Until someone writes a book on how to write books about writing, that is. Then I'll bite.


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## Jeko

> I'm not quite sure what your heartfelt declaration has to do with one writer politely letting another writer know about a bias in the publishing industry.



I'm on a thread, and someone asked for advice. I gave advice. The topic I was making a 'declaration' (?) about came up.

What is wrong?



> I did not tell him not to write the scene.



And I wasn't directing my comments to you, Leyline.



> Another fact is that you have no idea what his desire might be. For all you know, publication is paramount in his mind.



So, DavidR, what is most paramount in your mind?

I naturally assume that writing a story is most paramount in a writer's mind, or should be.



> And please don't lecture me about following my own path.



And I wasn't directing any 'lectures' to you, Leyline



> The ironic thing is that you are yourself attempting to dictate another writers process with your 'what the writer wants should come first'



Whoa - why are you making this about me?



> what the writer wants is to sell their work and have it tailored to an audience.



Cool. I believe that should happen after the story is written, not while it's being written.



> Anyway, this is all ridiculously off topic.



This is the topic... we're on the same note you began on, and that was a response to the topic.

I'm not sure what your quarrel is. Your posts raised views I have about this. It doesn't mean I'm having a go at you.

 I was having a go at the 'rules' of writing. It was the word 'cliche' that brought me in, I guess. The moment we're talking about cliche, we're talking about writing with rules.


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## Foxee

Cadence said:


> Alas, I have vowed to never get a book on writing. Until someone writes a book on how to write books about writing, that is. Then I'll bite.


I'm not sure why you're okay with asking advice on a free website with all levels of writers, published and unpublished, and yet draw the line at a book of advice from a well-published bestselling author but...okay.

(you don't have to explain, that's pretty much rhetorical)


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## Jeko

> I'm not sure why you're okay with asking advice on a free website with all levels of writers, published and unpublished, and yet draw the line with advice from a published author but...okay.



I thought it was obvious. _Free_!

And I can't discuss with a book without getting a padded cell for my trouble...


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## Morkonan

Thanks Jon and Foxee.  It's always good to have a nice finish. Candles on the cake have to be lit. (Though, I do agree, in total, it was a bit overdone. But, it was an example I squeezed out of a brain that had yet to go to bed.

On Disjointed Internal Dialogue:

After all, that's what we're discussing. We're talking about first-person internal dialogue that has to convey something to the reader that's not "said."

"I woke, dizzy, with a fuzzy head." Can only be written a few different ways. "I woke dizzy, with a fuzzy head." "I woke. I was dizzy. I had a fuzzy head." blah blah blah.. But, that doesn't give the reader any sense at all of what "dizzy" actually means or what this character's "fuzzy head" really felt like. The character can go on and on describing sensations, but it doesn't put the reader in the moment in which those sensations are felt, which is what the writer is trying to do.

So, we have to yank the reader around and make them dizzy, give them a fuzzy head.

Abuse grammar. By that, I don't mean spelling. Internal monologues are in the character's voice and should be misspelt if that is how the character would speak. However, we should instead abuse the way that normal sentences are constructed and the way the reader expects to read them. Abuse that, turn the reader's world on its head for a few seconds. Toss rules out the window. That's a good start towards getting them disoriented.

Then what? The author want's some feeling, some actual experience to pour through. We need some senses. The author wishes to directly convey sensory information to the reader. Well, poets might be able to do that. A few well respected masters in the art of prose have managed it, albeit rarely. Artists, of course, practice in that medium and musicians and composers have been using it for millennia. Us poor writers just have some grammatical rules, a few tidbits of story structure and a boatload of words to choose from... And, unless we are particularly skilled and experienced, it usually takes us a few words before we finally nail it. I suck at choosing appropriate words because I disdain, likely with too much frequency, cracking open a thesaurus. But, in this sort of situation, it might be a good idea. Get the right words, the words that really encompass the sense being explored. Contrast them, shockingly, if necessary. Invent metaphors on the fly - That's what you're paid to do anyway. Can you have a "sharp aroma?" Sure. But, that's weak and verges on a cliche'. A "cutting stench" is much better. Only as long as it's not overdone, though. A little water makes a strong wine go down much easier.

Anyone who has ever spun around in a "Crazy Teacup" ride at a fair knows what happens when you get off - You can't walk straight. We don't want to do such a great job that the reader can't read straight for a few sentences. If we did that, the next few sentences wouldn't have any meaning for them and they'd miss important information, like what the character experienced and thought once they regained their own senses. So, we have to be brief. Iago can not appear on the stage and tell us of his dastardly plan while we send our girlfriends, wives, boyfriends and husbands to go get us a soda. (Kids excluded because they generally hate plays. Oh, and drinking sodas at the theatre isn't in good taste, unless it's dinner theatre, which is never in good taste.) In other words, don't distract the reader too much, like I almost did there.


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## dolphinlee

*Most first posts are quieter.*

Dear DavidR

I have to say that you have started an interesting and active thread. A lot of the time when you ask for advice you just get advice. (Some is very good; some is not so good.)  

As you will already have gathered the people on this site have very different opinions. 

Considering that we are all supposed to be writers, sometimes we do not write as clearly and concisely as we might. This leaves us open to misunderstanding. I am as guilty of this as others.

Considering that we are all supposed to be able to read, sometimes we do not read as carefully as we might. This causes us to misinterpret the words of others or to interpret then in a slightly different way. I am also as guilty of this as others.   

Sometimes, not often, a thread changes to a debate or a discussion between two people. This doesn't usually last for long.  More people will answer your question soon.


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## Mutimir

Jon M said:


> Off topic, but ...
> 
> Wow, loved this.



Agreed.

I guess I should also respond to the topic at hand. Why is the character groggy? If it is just a bad nights sleep then who cares. How does this reveal something about the story or who the character is? I wake up groggy every Monday morning...doesn't mean I'll write a story about it.


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## Foxee

Actually, re: dolphinlee's comments, I'm kind of surprised that we're on page two and still mostly on topic. That has to be a record.


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## DavidR

Wow, I can tell I'm going to like it here!

I'm an information sponge.  Opinions and critiques are welcome.  Regarding the big deal about publishing, I kinda agree and kinda don't.  But that topic is for the individual to decide.  I'm still happy to learn from those more experienced than me.

I can understand "waking up" being common place for stories.  It just seems so natural.  Where to begin the first person present tense story?  When the protagonist wakes up!

I'm not guilty of this often, but two of my "bigger" stories have been like this.

The first being about an insomniac, and their routine life until one night it is shattered as they become a high-profile murder suspect.  Waking up here is important to set the tone story and character of the protagonist.  I honestly couldn't imagine it working out better as a "flashback".

The second being the topic of this thread which I'd be happy to post a short script of once I contribute more to the community in the coming days.

The point of this thread, the direct question I was pondering, was how to tell a first person narrative when the narrator is unreliable or not fully conscious.  In other media like TV, it's easy to show blurry vision, choppy images, jumbled noises, noises either too soft or too loud.

For our media, writing.  How can we do this while remaining in character?

Now from my own personal experience I've fainted before.  When I regained conscious I was in a daze.  My hearing was the first to return, then vision, followed by sensory, and during the initial shock I never noticed taste or smell.  During that time, my mind wasn't analyzing details or comparing them to poetic symbolism.  I was stunned.  I reacted by instinct.  Perhaps that's hard to describe? 

Anyways, that's the main theory/question I was curious about.  It's been great reading your responses!



A little bit more about me:  I'm an unpublished inexperienced writer, but I am a writer.  I have wrote several short stories based solely on my dreams in the past, and one day a few years ago took it upon myself to write a whole novel that's outline quickly fleshed out into a whole series.  I'm regularly told I have beautiful, entertaining writing merely from brief paragraphs.

I "feel" comfortable in this field.  I'm studying medicine, and I know a little bit about pretty much everything, but if I could make writing a decent "unpressured" career, I think I'd have a very happy life.

My plans were to write a couple short stories under a pseudonym and self publish/set them up on kindle/amazon for 0.99c or something tiny.  I guess in late 2013 I'll have my first novel to my series finished at around 600 pages and several drafts/revisions.  Once that is done I'll self publish it to kindle/amazon for 4.99 or something similarly cheap.  Even if I only sell 10,000 copies, that'd still be almost 50,000 dollars in my pocket, a decent year's salary.  And if I ever managed to sell 100,000 copies of any story, I'd be set right there, and could seriously look at making this a sustainable career.

Maybe I should double post that in introductions.  I just thought I'd give a proper greeting here since you all have helped so much, and I do believe I will enjoy being part of the community.


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## Mutimir

"Unpressured" career? Being a published writer and having that as your sole career is extremely demanding and soul crushing. If you can't take the pressure of rejection don't quit your day job.


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## Jon M

DavidR said:


> The point of this thread, the direct question I was pondering, was how to tell a first person narrative when the narrator is unreliable or not fully conscious.  In other media like TV, it's easy to show blurry vision, choppy images, jumbled noises, noises either too soft or too loud.
> 
> For our media, writing.  How can we do this while remaining in character?
> 
> Now from my own personal experience I've fainted before.  When I regained conscious I was in a daze.  My hearing was the first to return, then vision, followed by sensory, and during the initial shock I never noticed taste or smell.  During that time, my mind wasn't analyzing details or comparing them to poetic symbolism.  I was stunned.  I reacted by instinct.


Kind of what we've been discussing for forty-ish posts?

You may have been stunned, in a daze, after regaining consciousness, but ideally your characters do not all react similarly. That's kind of why making up people is ... fun.


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## Morkonan

DavidR said:


> ...For our media, writing.  How can we do this while remaining in character?
> 
> Now from my own personal experience I've fainted before.  When I regained conscious I was in a daze.  My hearing was the first to return, then vision, followed by sensory, and during the initial shock I never noticed taste or smell.  During that time, my mind wasn't analyzing details or comparing them to poetic symbolism.  I was stunned.  I reacted by instinct.  Perhaps that's hard to describe? ...



Well, check the posts above yours. 

There is nothing that we can experience that is too hard to describe. However, there are a great many things that we experience that aren't directly translatable. I can't sit in your head and experience your thoughts, for instance. As writers, we must bridge that gap to the best of our ability.

Hearing was first, you say? For me, it was coming to while lying amongst scrub brushes and feeling the texture of the leaves. The next time was a bit of pain, not being able to hear and not being able to breathe. (Which sort of sucks, really. Definitely disconcerting... Breathing is important.)

So, translate such experiences as the character would experience them. The mind of the character, which is the only tool available to you in writing internal dialogue, must be translated to the reader. That includes, most importantly, all those things that may not make sense, but that the reader can interpret correctly as the character themselves not making sense to themselves. (Dang, I hate "themselves.") You can not easily do this by having "two" internal dialogues, once where the character is thinking gibberish and another, at the same time, where the character is lucidly examining themselves. (There it is, again.) Start with the gibberish thoughts, end with the rationalizations.


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## qwertyman

DavidR said:
			
		

> The point of this thread, the direct question I was pondering, was how to tell a first person narrative when the narrator is unreliable or not fully conscious. In other media like TV, it's easy to show blurry vision, choppy images, jumbled noises, noises either too soft or too loud.



Clichés apart. The Movie director starts with the advantage of knowing you have paid for your seat and are unlikely to walk out in the first three minutes. Can you name a movie in which the film starts as you are intending to, even though it is easier? 

Famously, the opening of The Bourne Identity, shows men playing cards on a fishing boat in a slight swell, they are speaking in a Mediterranean language.  The scene has been set and the viewer is ‘grounded’.  A minute later they are fishing the amnesia-affected MC out of the water. 

Okay, what has this to do with First person narration? Similarly, the reader, picking up your book in a bookshop, needs grounding in the first two paragraphs, or the book goes back on the shelf.  Immediate information is sought; the place, the period etc. Nothing big, an indication. It’s not going to happen with groggy heads, blurred images and unreliablefirst person POV.

By the way, you will have to go into flashbacks eventually to explain the opening sequence.


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## Foxee

The only problem is that David isn't writing a movie script but a book. The Bourne Identity is a book that captured my imagination quickly and pulled me in but it doesn't start the way the movie did. 

It's well worth the read, check out the first few pages on Amazon, get to 'Book 1' which is the start of the narrative. The book really begins with the portrayal of one man being shot and falling from a boat into the ocean. When they made the movie they cut this because if they're fishing a guy out of the drink with a bullet hole in him and no memory, you can piece together that he was shot and ended up in the water. It saves time.

How unfortunate, though, if you don't get to read the strong, dark language that starts off Book 1 in the print version, an action sequence of one man hunting his enemy on stormy seas that riveted me to the page so that I didn't stop reading until I hit the end of the series. 

It's been a little while since I saw the movie but I think they also got rid of the struck-off alcoholic doctor who dries out long enough to help Bourne, finding more embedded in his flesh than a bullet.

Unless you're writing a script for a movie, don't write the movie. Write the book.


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## Staff Deployment

qwertyman said:


> By the way, you will have to go into flashbacks eventually to explain the opening sequence.



Flashbacks aren't necessary, in my humble and honest and meek opinion that is mine.

Everyone's doing little groggy waking-up scenes, so... what's so bad about the bandwagon. I bet it's comfortable with all those people on it. Here's a scene in which flashbacks are _not_ used but the dots should be pretty easy to connect.



> "Steve, you've picked up, now say something, come on."
> 
> "Who..." You raise an eyebrow at the cell phone as if it can read your face. It's on speaker. Not yours, you've got no idea how to turn it off. Maximum volume, too. Rhythmically driving nails into your head. Though the rushing wind is probably more to blame for the noise than the cell phone. "Name, say some sort of name, I can't deal with this."
> 
> "Steve. Steve is your name."
> 
> "My god, it's like you're... thicker than my head feels. I'm not Steve. Who am I talking to."
> 
> "Frank. We met at... you're not Steve? You sound like him."
> 
> "You met Steve at the party, then."
> 
> "Yeah, the big one last night. Right on the huge suspension bridge, we set off flares two hundred feet above the river and watched them fall down beneath the waves. You should remember that, it was before we brought out the booze. You're one of Becky's friend, right?"
> 
> "I know Becky." You vaguely know Becky. She'd sent you and about forty others an invite through facebook, so you rocked up to see if she'd wear that aerobics outfit you've committed to memory. Steve had tagged along for the ride. You figured the kid needed to get a few parties under his belt.
> 
> "You gonna introduce yourself, Not-Steve?"
> 
> "I'd rather not," you grumble into the phone. You'd forgotten it was still on. "What do you recall?"
> 
> "Nothing, I woke up in some sort of... security room, nobody else here. All I've got on me is this slip of paper with a number and the name Steve. I know Steve. Thought he was you."
> 
> "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything else."
> 
> "Too hazy. Yourself?"
> 
> "No idea where I am. Can hardly see straight."
> 
> You place your hand on the floor beside you. It's cold, metal. Your tailbone is bruised from sleeping and it's painful to move around. Windy, too, and a hint of spray. Maybe from the ocean. More likely, the river through the city. You try to place your other hand down, but - nothing, big empty gap, two hundred feet below you, you realize that -
> 
> "Hey, you still there?"
> 
> You tremblingly pick up the phone and hold it closer to your face. "Yes."
> 
> "Figure out where you are?"
> 
> "Under the bridge."
> 
> "What?"
> 
> "Under the bridge."



It's not very well written, but the idea is that it is more important what happens later than what happened before. This scenario puts emphasis on questions like "How does he get out of this?" rather than "What happened?" which pushes the story forward rather than backward.

Not that there's anything wrong with pushing a story backward. But myself, I like to live in the moment. Booyeah, life lesson, right out of nowhere.


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## qwertyman

Foxee said:
			
		

> The only problem is that David isn't writing a movie script but a book


.I agree. 

David was mooting the point that it was easier in TV etc. I picked up the point, to demonstrate, not even when it's easier, is it attempted. Because easiness is not the reason.  It's because the method/format is unfriendly to the recipient.


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## qwertyman

Staff Deployment said:


> Flashbacks aren't necessary, in my humble and honest and meek opinion that is mine..



Okay, but it will normally end up as 'tell' not show and  will dilute the drama.




> ... but the idea is that it is more important what happens later than what happened before.



That's a bold assumption.



> This scenario puts emphasis on questions like "How does he get out of this?" rather than "What happened?" which pushes the story forward rather than backward.



There is cause and effect. If the cause is weak and underplayed it will not promote the effect.


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## Staff Deployment

qwertyman said:


> snip



The idea is that the extract would support my contention. As in, the extract was written so that flashbacks were unnecessary, but the information was still conveyed in a reasonable manner without resorting to saying outright "this is what happened to these people."

_The extract_ was written so that the situation was more interesting than the backstory. A dude trying to get out from under a suspension bridge without falling two hundred feet into a raging river is more of a compelling tale than solving the mystery of the drunk amnesiacs. So yeah it's a bold assumption, but it's an assumption specific to something that I specifically wrote, in specific terms, specifically.


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## qwertyman

Staff Deployment said:


> The idea is that the extract would support my contention. As in, the extract was written so that flashbacks were unnecessary, but the information was still conveyed in a reasonable manner without resorting to saying outright "this is what happened to these people.".


But that's exactly what you did



> _The extract_ was written so that the situation was more interesting than the backstory.



Why, specifically?


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## Staff Deployment

qwertyman said:


> Why, specifically?



...because I wanted to write something where the situation was... more interesting... than the backstory?

I did that because I have a preference for stories that focus on moving forward, rather than milling about trying to figure out what has already happened, and I wanted to provide an example of that. Kind of a demonstration. You'll find that the closest I came to explaining what happened was when the dude on the phone said that they'd set off flares on the bridge, which not only is not any sort of reasonable explanation but also explicitly took place before everyone started drinking. However, it does indirectly indicate the setting (probably somewhere around the bridge), which was the intent.

Really if you boil it down it's me saying, "DavidR, please do not feel forced to use flashbacks like the Keyboard-Themed Superhero dictated was necessary. There _are_ other options!"


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## NinjaElf

I would start with sentence that don't really end. Maybe let his other senses speak more than his brain at tha moment, maybe he can smell his surroundings. Maybe he hears a weird sound? Let him think about what happened, can he remember? You could let him feel something, or opening his eyes slowly, and explain his surroundings a little groggy, like he can't really see and make that come forward in your way of writing the scene, not really sure, not perfect language, a little vague, maybe.

That's what I would do, really, maybe something like:

_I come into consciousness, but barely. My head hurts, as does the rest of my body. I hear water running somewhere close, smell the smell of rusted metal. I try to open my eyes. Auch, it hurts. Vague sight, foggy, like my head is not really there yet. I try to open my eyes again, a blinding light fills the room and I shield myself from the light to dull the pain in my head.

_I don't really know.. Make it confusing, I think.


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## Staff Deployment

NinjaElf said:


> I would start with sentence that don't really end. Maybe let his other senses speak more than his brain at tha moment, maybe he can smell his surroundings. Maybe he hears a weird sound? Let him think about what happened, can he remember? You could let him feel something, or opening his eyes slowly, and explain his surroundings a little groggy, like he can't really see and make that come forward in your way of writing the scene, not really sure, not perfect language, a little vague, maybe.



I would start with sentences that don't really... Maybe let his other senses speak more than his... maybe he can smell... Maybe he hears a weird sound? Let him think about... can he remember? You could let him feel... he can't really see. Not really sure, not perfect language, a little vague...

he he he he, see now it's self-demonstrating


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