# Rule #1: "Never begin a book with weather"?



## egriffith (Nov 8, 2011)

I picked up Elmore Leonard's "10 Rules of Writing" at the local library. His #1 rule is "Never open a book with weather". 

My first thought was: "Uh oh! That's exactly what I did!" 
My story starts with a typhoon blowing in over a southern Japanese island. After a short paragraph, we zoom to a single house in the seaside village, and the man inside. But I did start with weather.

The weather is symbolic. The baby being born in that little house will have a rough and windy life. It is also symbolic of the birth pains and struggles of the mother, because when the baby is born, the storm fades quickly. 

What do you think? Mr. Leonard does say there are exceptions to his rule, but he says "the reader is apt to skip ahead looking for people". I suppose, like most writing techniques, the way it's used could change the rules.


----------



## josh.townley (Nov 8, 2011)

I hate rules that begin with 'never' or 'always'. There are always exceptions and a good writer should be able to judge for themselves whether a scene is working or not. I think as long as you don't go on and on describing every element of the weather in minute detail there is nothing wrong with starting that way.
If you have enough to set the scene, there's nothing stopping you from coming back to it after introducing some characters, such as: 'the storm continued to rage outside, as torrents of rain fell, drowning out the mother's cries with its deafening applause...' so that the reader keeps it in mind and understands its significance.


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

well that is really a question of choice and not someone else's.
I would not take any rule by heart especially if you are going to stand out from the crowd.
I especially like the weather description in my stories because you could almots add a poetic feel to it .:smile:


----------



## felix (Nov 9, 2011)

I've seen plenty of books published with exactly that. 

Ignore all lists of absolutes from authors, they usually just draw on their own preferences.


----------



## Sam (Nov 9, 2011)

If you establish a hook in the first paragraph, you can start the novel with cows standing in a field.


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

Sam W said:


> If you establish a hook in the first paragraph, you can start the novel with cows standing in a field.



:lol: cows standing in a field...lol
isn't a hook to do with fishing?
*sorry do not mean to derail from topic*


----------



## C.M. Aaron (Nov 9, 2011)

"Everybody talks about the weather, but no one ever does anything about it." - Mark Twain

Who was the writer who deliberately tried to write the worst story ever told and began it with "It was a dark and stormy night...?"

I guess what I am trying to say is that weather is what people talk about when they have nothing better to say. A reader can take it as a bad sign for a beginning of a story. The important thing is to establish a hook very early on. If you can do that with the weather then go for it, but there are probably easier hooks out there.


----------



## Bloggsworth (Nov 9, 2011)

It was pissing with rain and my galoshes had sprung a leak... 

Rain and footwear in the first sentence.


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

C.M. Aaron said:


> "Everybody talks about the weather, but no one ever does anything about it." - Mark Twain
> 
> Who was the writer who deliberately tried to write the worst story ever told and began it with "It was a dark and stormy night...?"
> 
> I guess what I am trying to say is that weather is what people talk about when they have nothing better to say. A reader can take it as a bad sign for a beginning of a story. The important thing is to establish a hook very early on. If you can do that with the weather then go for it, but there are probably easier hooks out there.


I disagree.
the weather is like your special effects in abook


----------



## egriffith (Nov 9, 2011)

Sounds like what I am hearing is: if you can link the weather to something important happening to the characters, then it can work. But weather "because you don't have anything better to say" should be removed or re-written.

As a side note, I started out to write a book I would want to read myself. That was my only guide and I was a complete newb as a fiction writer (still am, but I am learning). There had to be action and something interesting happening. No long and detailed descriptions, just enough to give the reader clues. (My preferences, and I understand that preferences vary a LOT!)

Now that I am a good ways into it, I started looking at books on how to write novels. It appears that by trying to write a book I would like to read, I have inadvertently and unknowingly followed most of the guidelines I am finding.


----------



## Jeko (Nov 9, 2011)

egriffith said:


> "Never open a book with weather".



Really?



I think it's a load of rubbish. A story's opening isn't defined by what's in it, but how you use what's in it, and to what extent, and the connotations that it has to the rest of the story.


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

egriffith said:


> Sounds like what I am hearing is: if you can link the weather to something important happening to the characters, then it can work. But weather "because you don't have anything better to say" should be removed or re-written.
> 
> As a side note, I started out to write a book I would want to read myself. That was my only guide and I was a complete newb as a fiction writer (still am, but I am learning). There had to be action and something interesting happening. No long and detailed descriptions, just enough to give the reader clues. (My preferences, and I understand that preferences vary a LOT!)
> 
> Now that I am a good ways into it, I started looking at books on how to write novels. It appears that by trying to write a book I would like to read, I have inadvertently and unknowingly followed most of the guidelines I am finding.


there are no guidelines to writing, ONLY yours.


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

Cadence said:


> Really?
> View attachment 2507
> 
> I think it's a load of rubbish. A story's opening isn't defined by what's in it, but how you use what's in it, and to what extent, and the connotations that it has to the rest of the story.


isn't that a film made into a story?


----------



## Jeko (Nov 9, 2011)

Nacian said:


> isn't that a film made into a story?



I don't know. It's a book - I know that. The second I read about starting with the weather, it flashed in my mind. I mean, what if your story is about the weather?


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

Cadence said:


> I don't know. It's a book - I know that. The second I read about starting with the weather, it flashed in my mind. I mean, what if your story is about the weather?


true...a story about the weather is as good as it gets..:icon_cheesygrin:


----------



## Jeko (Nov 9, 2011)

It's also a bit of an ambiguous rule. 'The weather' can vary. You can talk about whether the weather is rain or shine, but there are other things like temperature, humidity, light levels... saying that you can't start a story with the weather is saying you can't start a story by describing the environment. Hence, every opening scene is lacking depth, because we don't know the light levels, or the dynamics of the wind. At the start of one of my novels, it's set in an interior, and I start by saying 'The dim corridors teemed with power'. According to Elmore, if I'd set it outside, I wouldn't be able to use the term 'dim', or 'bright', or 'dull'.

Basically, Elmore is wrong.


----------



## Rob (Nov 9, 2011)

egriffith said:


> I picked up Elmore Leonard's "10 Rules of Writing" at the local library. His #1 rule is "Never open a book with weather".
> 
> My first thought was: "Uh oh! That's exactly what I did!"
> My story starts with a typhoon blowing in over a southern Japanese island. After a short paragraph, we zoom to a single house in the seaside village, and the man inside. But I did start with weather.
> ...



From the Guardian site:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fiction-part-one



> 1 Never open a book with weather. If it's only to create atmosphere, and not a character's reaction to the weather, you don't want to go on too long. The reader is apt to leaf ahead looking for people. There are exceptions. If you happen to be Barry Lopez, who has more ways than an Eskimo to describe ice and snow in his book Arctic Dreams, you can do all the weather reporting you want.


I think giving the context of the full quote puts a slightly different slant on it. What he's really saying is: Don't start with only the weather, unless you're bloody good at it. I agree that a lot of poorly written openings would have been avoided if people abided by that. Too often, I've seen the weather alone described in a dull, meaningless way. As always, there are exceptions, which is precisely what he goes on to say, and which modifies his use of 'never'. The weather used in conjunction with a character doing something meaningful is fine, and can still be used to provide atmosphere or symbolism.

So I don't think he's wrong at all, but people are free to make their own minds up about all such rules. Ultimately, he writes in a style that works for him. It may not work for me, or for you. Actually, his rules don't work for me, that much I know, but Get Shorty was a superb read.


----------



## movieman (Nov 9, 2011)

Cadence said:


> I mean, what if your story is about the weather?



How do you write a story about the weather? You can write stories about the effect weather has on people (or other characters), but a story about weather would seem pretty dull.

"Rain fell for two hours. Then snow for an hour. Then rain fell again for an hour or so. Then the wind blew the clouds away. Then after another hour rain fell again. The End"

I'm sure you could tell a story about a raindrop or a cloud, but then you're writing a story about a raindrop or a cloud, not about the weather. When reading unpublished or self-published books, starting with six pages about the weather means I'm unlikely to get to the seventh.


----------



## Terry D (Nov 9, 2011)

Leonard's point was that you shouldn't ease your way into your story by starting off describing anything.  Get to the point.  Establish the 'hook' as has been said.  He could just as easily have said, "never open a book with a description of a meal", or "never open a book describing a landscape".  His quote has nothing to do with the weather.

The very first sentence of the book I am currently reading (The Five by Robert R. McCammon) illustrates what Leonard was talking about;

_Nomad decided he was going to have to kill the waitress._

He doesn't.  In fact most of that first chapter is about the interactions of a rock band over breakfast at a Denny's, but McCammon planted that hook with his first eleven words.  He didn't start off talking about the weather.


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

Terry D said:


> Leonard's point was that you shouldn't ease your way into your story by starting off describing anything.  Get to the point.  Establish the 'hook' as has been said.  He could just as easily have said, "never open a book with a description of a meal", or "never open a book describing a landscape".  His quote has nothing to do with the weather.
> 
> The very first sentence of the book I am currently reading (The Five by Robert R. McCammon) illustrates what Leonard was talking about;
> 
> ...


so the hook is in the killing ? 
Or
is iti in the fact that he has to kill?
because these are the first two underlying issues that I have picked up on  AND he has already told me what the story is going to be about.
I fail to see this is going to keep my concentration span through his firts eleven opening words that have already told me the plot.
thirdly,
 I got bit confused with the word NOMAD because I understand it as something else and not a person's name.
Now I have completely switched off.
Every reader is different your assumption are different from another because  readers are of different intellectual background and interest.
the weather however, would've kept me amused ,because it is descriptive and it is prose ,which I like, and if it is cleverly worded would have kept my attention and would've made me wait a little longer to see what is the story is about.


----------



## Rob (Nov 9, 2011)

Nacian said:


> so the hook is in the killing ?
> Or
> is iti in the fact that he has to kill?


The hook is in wanting to know what happened next.


----------



## Terry D (Nov 9, 2011)

Nacian said:


> so the hook is in the killing ?
> Or
> is iti in the fact that he has to kill?
> because these are the first two underlying issues that I have picked up on  AND he has already told me what the story is going to be about.
> ...



The 'hook' is a plot device, also known as a narrative hook.  It is a bit of dialogue, narration, or action which grabs the reader's attention and pulls them into the story like a fish-hook catches a fish.


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

Rob said:


> The hook is in wanting to know what happened next.



well from my point of view there is only so much that could happen after such a plot.
killing or wanting to kill is nothing new to me.
I have seen it on TV, Films,books,history, mythology,bible, CSI, newspaper, crimewatch, you name it is there.
so for me that is ultimatley that last thing I want to read about in fact I won't read at all .
I will make up my own little stories instead.
hey, that is my opinion and of course your are different to me so what am I to know?:-s


----------



## Nacian (Nov 9, 2011)

Terry D said:


> The 'hook' is a plot device, also known as a narrative hook.  It is a bit of dialogue, narration, or action which grabs the reader's attention and pulls them into the story like a fish-hook catches a fish.


haha...I get what you are trying to tell me .
however my attention is not grabbed nor handled like a hook caches a fish.
the reasons are stated above.
I cannot get any clearer reasons then the one I have stated above.:???:
it will take more than a hook to get me reading someone whose idea to kill some waitress is an idea of fun let alone intrigue.
I am  already told the plot.
where is the fun in that? 
in fact this kind of opening reminds of Formula One racing, only played backward.
meaning I am already told the winners and then I have to sit watch it played backwards.
I cannot imagine how dull and unsufferable that would be.
Not that the formula One had recently got my blood racing because the one and only that has had all the running this year and last was the same and only Vettel. 
so there no need to play it backward either. It was as dull if not worse watched live. backward or live would not make a blinding difference. either way it is unseffurable. lol
sorry no disrespect but that's me.:adoration:


----------



## Robdemanc (Nov 9, 2011)

Did he mean it literally?  Or was he using the weather to make another point?


----------



## Rob (Nov 9, 2011)

Robdemanc said:


> Did he mean it literally?  Or was he using the weather to make another point?


Probably both. He has more to say in this radio programme, from 2006, where he talk in terms of the writer showing off. He talks briefly about his ten rules 19 and a bit minutes into the discussion (which largely discussed his novel Rum Punch):

BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - Bookclub, Elmore Leonard

(Not sure if that will work outside of the UK).

He's an interesting guy. There's also a brief video of him talking about writing here:

BBC - The Culture Show - Elmore Leonard

And an article here:

Elmore Leonard: high priest of low-life America | Film | The Observer


----------



## Terry D (Nov 9, 2011)

Nacian said:


> haha...I get what you are trying to tell me .
> however my attention is not grabbed nor handled like a hook caches a fish.
> the reasons are stated above.
> I cannot get any clearer reasons then the one I have stated above.:???:
> ...



No disrespect taken, but you miss the point.  That single sentence does not tell you the plot of the book.  It simply gives the reader insight into how the character feels, and does it in a dramatic and effective way.  If it doesn't work for you, that's fine, but it is an effective way to write.

If anyone wants to see what Leonard thinks is a good way to start a book just read the first page of one at Amazon.  You'll see that he jumps right into the action without wasting any time describing how blue the sky is, or what his characters are wearing.  His quote isn't about the weather, it's about starting a book with characters doing something.


----------



## Jon M (Nov 9, 2011)

His point is a good one, even if it might be a little tongue in cheek. The character is probably more important than the weather most times. And any good writer knows that descriptions of weather _should_ serve as insight into the viewpoint character himself, because he is the one there, and it is the world filtered through his perceptions that we are reading. 

But also, I think, most inexperienced writers in general tend to begin stories with the weather. For the longest time I did. I think it's natural.


----------



## marrow (Nov 10, 2011)

i thought the story was very interesting.


----------



## seyelint (Nov 10, 2011)

Weather.

I laugh and remember the movie 'Let's throw mama off the train' - it was a dark and sultry night - if weather can capture an audience, why not use it. If it can move a story forward, why not. But since it has such a stigma, you better do it justice, better get it right. 

I don't frown on weather on the opening line if it has something to do with the story. If it is just a weather report, well I can wait til it rains.


----------



## dale (Nov 10, 2011)

i have a story that begins with a storm. i think "weather" can set a mood for an opening, if done right.


----------



## helium (Nov 11, 2011)

Weather usually creates a mood. So it could start there if needed


----------



## philistine (Nov 11, 2011)

I'd advise anyone to largely dismiss these lists as any kind of authority, if not ignore them altogether. There should be no advisers for content which has not yet been written, and there certainly shouldn't be any never's.


----------



## Robdemanc (Nov 11, 2011)

I think the 'rules' that are passed around are really publisher rules, not writing rules.  If you are writing with the hope to be published then pay attention to what editors and literary agents say, but try to read between the lines.   If you are writing for the sake of writing then there are no rules at all.   I have loads of stuff that I know will never pass through a publishers office so I don't worry about it.   But at the moment I am writing something that I want to get published so am keeping an eye on the things they say not to do.


----------

