# The Fall of Man



## Mr. Beard (May 9, 2010)

Shades of black
Spinning into utter darkness.
Nothing moves,
The silence is deafening.

Carry your disgraces on your back.
Wear your shame with pride!
Who will save you?

The goodness of man,
the greatness of a god,
All mean nothing.

This reality; we go day to day
Praying on the weak, burning the innocents, killing the pure.
Corruption lives, Thieves prosper.

A World so chaotic
Honor has no meaning.

Many speak a savior's name
One and the same,
Ignorance keeps the lame, fighting...

Any type of order,
Any type of peace,
Run by killers and theives.

Justice aimed at the rich and powerful,
This is not the world i planned.
Where did it go?

Recalling the past, life was simple.
Childhood is innocence,
People grow,
Innocence is lost.
Forever perpetuating our worlds' cycle;
Chaos, destruction, Extinction

Man is destined to fall!
The Wild will reclaim what was theirs.
We shall become a minority in a world where the majority is shoved up  their own assholes.

The few that remain,
Rise up!
Take back what you've lost,
Rise Up, Fight Back!
The powerful can only fight for so long.

Amidst the ashes,
The strong will rise.
A phoenix in the darkness.
Take your stand.
Let them live no longer.


----------



## MisterSpider (May 9, 2010)

This is a list of abstract nouns, it is not poetry. It contains not a single concrete image and every other line is a cliche (did you really think you could get away with using "the silence is deafening"?).

Do you read poetry? What you have posted suggests that you do not. Start doing so if you would like to get better.


----------



## Mr. Beard (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for the opinion, but poetry is about perception, you perceive it as a list of nouns and cliches, i see it as beauty. All opinion is in the eyes of the beholder. Which I'm sure you will just say is another cliche.


----------



## Idle Tinkerer (May 9, 2010)

I'm not a fan of poetry in general, and I can't really say that this changes that a great deal, but it's no more abstract or cliche than a lot of other things I see getting passed off as art in all sorts of publications. In all honesty, there were a few turns of phrases in there that were better than a lot of poetry I've read elsewhere.

I guess that speaks more to the subjective nature of writing than anything else.

As to an actual half useful critique, it came across as half angry, half sad. A very nice mix of emotions for the way the poem looks at the world. 

I did find the couple of longer lines to break up the flow quite a bit - Not necessarily a bad thing, particularly as they seem geared for shock value, but they seemed somewhat clumsy and overly oblique, even for poetry. In particular,

"Man is destined to fall
The Wild will reclaim what was theirs.
We shall become a minority in a world where the majority is shoved up their own assholes"

This makes no sense to me. It seems to proclaim that men will soon be the minority in a world gone back to nature, but then proclaims the majority as stuck up bastards. I never thought Bambi was that bad, and Simba always seemed fairly nice. I'd suggest rewording that a fair bit.


----------



## Mr. Beard (May 9, 2010)

Thank you, it sounds like you got the gist of the message i was trying to get across.

For some clarity on 
"Man is destined to fall
The Wild will reclaim what was theirs.
We shall become a minority in a world where the majority is shoved up their own assholes"

You're right saying that men will be the minority if man doesn't change the way we are.  The overbearing and greedy attempting to rule, it will only lead to downfall and allow nature to grow over this generation.  Just like any other ancient civilization.  

When I write longer lines they tend to be somewhat clumsy and oblique.  It's something I'm working on and i thank you for pointing it out to me.


----------



## Idle Tinkerer (May 9, 2010)

I actually liked the longer line, and i understood what you were trying to portray, I was just having some fun with the way it was set out. As the longest line, and the one with (exceedingly mild) profanity, it stands out - If it's going to stand out, though, it'd better be perfect.

There were a few other lines I'd point out to you.

This savior that many speak 
One in the same
Ignorance keeps the lame fighting

Should that be "seek" and "One and the same," or is there some subtle meaning there I'm not quite grasping?

Oh, and I can't fight the urge to right "ou" in honour, saviour and so on. Damned Americans and your crazy spellings!

Oh, and I particularly liked the idea of the growth from childhood innocence growing into chaos and eventual extinction as a metaphor for civilizations. Very nicely done.


----------



## Mr. Beard (May 9, 2010)

Yes i agree, if it's going to be the line to stand out, it should be perfect or close to it.

looking at what you've said, it'll be changed to "the saviors that many speak" and yes it should be "one and the same" and the meaning being every religion has the same high power and that's one of the main things that causes the chaos in the world.  When in reality, if you have faith you believe essentially the same ideals so it's pointless to fight over it like humans do.

Thank you for all the feedback on my first piece on the sight, it's been helpful for sure.


----------



## Idle Tinkerer (May 9, 2010)

Ah, I see. I'd probably go with "Saviours of which many speak" or some such. Make things a little clearer for us dense folk.

And no worries. Reading isn't exactly a hardship for me, and anyone who knows me will tell you that shutting me up is the hard part.


----------



## Mr. Beard (May 9, 2010)

I made a slight change to the wording, and i don't mind the feedback at all, it's refreshing. it's why i joined this site. so talk away, it's all good


----------



## Idle Tinkerer (May 9, 2010)

Works much better now, that paragraph. My only thought is how it's one word away from being a triple rhyme.

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.


----------



## Mr. Beard (May 9, 2010)

i was reading and rereading that too, it has a different flow to it, like you said not sure if its good or bad.  i like it though


----------



## Gumby (May 9, 2010)

Hi Mr. Beard. If I missed welcoming you, then consider yourself welcomed now. 

I would suggest that you go through this and add proper punctuations. It's a little haphazard as it is, with occasional periods and each line Capitalized. I myself struggle with punctuation, but I know it can be very helpful when applied properly, and can clarify just exactly how you mean to say a line. 

I do happen to agree with your premise that man has fallen a long way.


----------



## Galivanting (May 9, 2010)

i echo gumby, with some more attention paid to punctuation this would really be improved

i cant say i agree with spider, its abstract... but its by no means a "list of abstract nouns" and can certainly be worked upon

its not bad, just needs work. 

so glad to have you here man. i always have though you have talent in writing you just need it to be reined in.


----------



## Mr. Beard (May 9, 2010)

Thank you Gumby and Galivanting, its something i struggle with too, normally because i rush when i write it down the first time.  

its nice to have a place to finally do this.  you remember how it was in mr. halls class, good times


----------



## Martin (May 10, 2010)

This is so full of claims and conclusions, it is way too abstract for me. I mean what's it about? The fall of man, well what is the fall and who is man? There's nothing specific here, that can make me say you have a point - no specific message. I read it as a quantitative list of personal notions written in a dramatic and overly telly way.


----------



## MaggieG (May 10, 2010)

Mr. Beard said:


> Shades of black
> Spinning into utter darkness.
> Nothing moves,
> The silence is deafening.
> ...



This has a political manifesto feel to me. It is angry, and defiant . ( which is not a bad thing actually ) Some of my better poetry has come from being pissed !  lol Here's the deal though Darlin  Don't tell me what you are pissed about, show me . By showing the reader what you see, you draw them in, make them part of the situation, and we always " FEEL" when we are directly affected,hence the point of writing ( for me at least lol ) To provoke a response, and to be provoked . 

Much enjoyed Hun


----------



## rainhands (May 10, 2010)

Hi Mr. Beard, and welcome,

I've read through this and the comments you've received, and urge you to listen without getting defensive. The piece is abstract, relying on generalisations, and is didactic to the point that I  really don't care. I don't like being told what to think. Your statements are extremely bland and aren't backed up by anything concrete, and I could take issue with nearly all of them. For example, just the line "Childhood is innocence" gets on my nerves. _My_ childhood certainly wasn't. I think all children are far less innocent than we like to imagine. Children can be manipulative and bullying and lying. Simply put, this is a generalised and uninformed rant that adds up to nothing more than melodrama. I don't think there's anything to salvage from the piece, and that you'd do better to read lots of poetry if you're really serious about improving. Best,

-R


----------



## MaggieG (May 10, 2010)

Ok...  Don't know if I am over stepping my bounds here, but I just read this thread. First.... Please do not take offense to what I told you. If was not meant to offend you. Secondly Hun... The first time I ever posted on a board ? Let's put it this way... lol What has been said here is absolutely kind in comparison. I bawled like a baby !  LOL 

Then...  

I got mad as hell and wrote. I kept writing, and kept reading, and kept writing , and kept reading. The day someone read something I wrote, and said ( and I quote ! lol ) " This doesn't entirely suck. " I almost peed my pants with joy !  lol Why ? Because this strange little habit I do matters to me. I want it to be good. Not just to myself but to others that read it as well. I have no doubt you are of a like mind. ( or simply put you wouldn't be here ) 

I have read your poem several times. There is an image in your head you see as art. I know there is. Now this is where the "craft" aspect of this comes into play. I can not see it with you. Make me see it as well. Walk me into your world, and show me around. I know it takes time, and work. And if you are like most writers I know, that alone will test your patience. 

I am telling you as another writer...  It is worth it.


----------



## MisterSpider (May 10, 2010)

It is no surprise that you think this poem is beautiful, as you are the author and this is your creation. It _is_ a list of abstract nouns; you have 40+ abstract nouns in a 43 line poem. I suggested that you read some poetry -- some good poetry from a reputable journal, to clarify -- so that you can see that this is not the way to write a poem because it means absolutely nothing to everyone involved. Why does it mean nothing? Because it could mean anything. When you use words like "Weak" and "Pride" you rely not on concrete images, but fuzzy feelings that don't add up into anything, that don't provoke any tangible images. Lines like "the strong will rise" are limp platitudes and easily done and this poem is filled with them.


----------



## Ilasir Maroa (May 10, 2010)

Abstract nouns and adjectives have one major use in writing, to reflect character or narrator judgement. As this is a poem without a true character voice, most abstract words are only going to obscure and weaken your meaning. "Thieves prosper" is a good example of an abstract phrase. How exactly do these theives prosper? Are we talking crime in the streets thieves, or crime in the suites thieves?

How is the world "so chaotic"? What effect does the have on the value and meaning of honour? How are we defining honour?

My suggestion would be to pick one or three of the connected ideas in this poem and start over, working to illustrate your claims with concrete examples and imagery.  This allows the reader to form their own opinion and thus become invested in the poem--something which cannot really occur if you are telling them what to think.


----------



## Mr. Beard (May 16, 2010)

I've taken everything into consideration and it is all well received.  

Thanks to to all who commented.


----------

