# Now who would be my main editor on a novel? Agent? Do they do that before sending?



## Cat Laurelle (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm a bit confused, now once I get an agent, do they hack up your work, or hire a seperate editor to go over any questionable parts and get you to rewrite your work, and who would pay for that if that is how it's done? Or do they shop only the work they like around, so if your not obtaining an editor it's a clue that you need to hire a helper to go through your work for you and give you tips, etc to work on it before resubmitting it around?


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## SeverinR (Aug 16, 2011)

I have not submitted, but from what I have read, You have to work with the editor and pay them.  The agent might help you find a good one. 
Until you are a published author that sells, I don't think they will invest much if any money into a work until they buy it. If they bought it, it is probably fairly close to being as perfect as possible.
Agents send your work to publishers, they can't afford to invest in an unknown.
Basically, agents and publishers are overwhelmed with unknown authors.  So you are the one to have and pay for the polish applied to your work.


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## Motley (Aug 16, 2011)

From people I know who have novels published, you edit it, then hire a professional editor to edit it again (some skip this step), find an agent (if you're skilled, dedicated and lucky), they sometimes recommend another edit with someone they know or work with, get a publisher to buy the book, and then they have in house editors run through it again. Every edit step involves you editing it though, based on editors' suggestions. Then you get a publication date about a year or two later and start the process over with your next book.


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## Lord Darkstorm (Aug 16, 2011)

Just a note to anyone who might not know, publishers and agents aren't looking for diamonds in the rough, they want the end product that has the best chance of selling with the least amount of effort.  If you were an agent, or publisher, would you want a story that you could start printing right away, or one that would require a year of back and forth with the author, with lots of edits and changes the author may or may not want to do?


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 16, 2011)

I get that but I won't have money to pay an editor???


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## Lord Darkstorm (Aug 16, 2011)

So you take the time and get better and learn to do most of that yourself.  I know everyone is in a hurry to get published, but if you can't get your novel to a good enough point that someone will be willing to finish off the polishing, then you aren't ready to be published.  Becoming a good writer takes time and practice.  You are in a good place to learn more, and to get some feedback on your writing.  While the people here might not all be professional writers, I'm betting there are quite a few that are professional readers. You can't read novels for several decades and not be able to tell bad writing.  Might not always be able to provide an answer to how to fix it, but it can identified.  

I haven't seen your writing so I don't know your skill level, but if you had an editor, would you be able to fix the issues pointed out?  If unsure, find a book called 'the first five pages' and read it.  It's written by an editor, not a writer, and it brings a whole new understanding to the other side of the process of publishing.  It makes it clear that pretty much every person going through a slush pile is hoping to find certain things that will let them send out a form rejection in the shortest amount of time possible so they can get onto the next one.  To sum up the numbers provided in the book, 85% of submissions are given a form rejection based on, at most, the first five pages of a novel.  Sometimes less.  The other 10% are the ones that usually get some type of comment with the rejection, since the writing is far and above most of what gets sent in.  So to have a chance at getting an editor to consider purchasing your story, you have to have it good enough that if falls into the top 5% of what is submitted.  

It's why there is self publishing (or vanity press).

If you don't feel your writing is there, then keep at it till it is.  Write different things as well.  Grow your abilities.  Good writing is hard work.


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 16, 2011)

Well, a bit about myself, I'm coming from a background as a freelance journalist, so editors are not new to me. I also have radio producing experience in public radio, and have interviewed several novelists on-air, so I've been in other positions in the production/advertising loop regarding this sort of thing. I'm a nerd, I study things for the sake of knowing them and I am extremely well read in certain areas. So I will hunt down how to do anything right!


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## SeverinR (Aug 18, 2011)

SOme on other sights have offered suggestions of how to get around not having money to pay an editor.

1.Find a trusted friend to read and point out mistakes. While not a professional editor they will be able to point out mistakes and give you feed back on weak parts of the story. They are book buyers so they know what they like.

2. Some writing groups can help with this also. Same as above except they have tried to write also.
3.Teachers: if you are in a writing class or even in high school you might be able to have a teacher look it over. 
4. submit samples to writing forums for critique. The people will disect the work note the weak areas, suggest better ways to say it, write it.  This has helped me more then anything else.


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## starseed (Aug 18, 2011)

Why would you need to pay an editor? I have never understood that. It seems to me that by the time you'd be ready to submit, you'd have rewrote your novel so many times you'd have caught all of the grammatical errors and what not. 

I guess some people want to submit before they get it perfect. Or is it that you just don't know how? I know someone who hired a professional editor because they loved the creative process of storytelling but didn't have a clue about grammar or spelling, lol.


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## j.w.olson (Aug 18, 2011)

Yeah, but I believe editors do more than spellcheck your work.  There are also flow/pacing issues, inconsistencies, things that are explained well enough in the author's head but not in other peoples, etc.

Having a fresh set of eyes -- especially a fresh set of eyes that is well trained and doesn't belong to you -- well help improve your book.


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 18, 2011)

I really should talk to my published friend, he's a historian, just to catch the historical stuff would be great to get his help. I wonder if I could pay him a tiny bit upon the books sale if it sells and make a deal to help me that way. I was hoping he'd consider coauthoring stuff, but I got no response to that idea.


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## Sam (Aug 18, 2011)

Let me ask you a serious question: Have you written the book yet? If the answer is no, you're wasting time worrying about things that may not even happen. Halfway through, you might decide to scrap the novel and start something else. These are the questions you ask when you've _finished_ a novel. 

If you're at that stage, I'll humour you. No, an agent will not edit your book. That is not part of their job description. Their job is to pitch your novel to prospective publishers and get you (and them) the best possible deal. An editor edits. Some publishing houses provide in-house editing, but you're mostly talking about making sure words aren't spelled wrong. Proper editing questions everything about the writing: pacing, plot holes, length, characterisation, everything. I assume that's what you're after. 

If you spend enough time reading and writing, you can edit your own work. It takes a certain mindset to look at it objectively, but it can be done. There are those who tell you it can't. Ignore them. If you set enough time to studying the language, learning the nuances of it, you can edit anything short of something written by a professor.


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 18, 2011)

Apparently you are not following any of my threads. I'm about to work on polishing my novel.


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## starseed (Aug 18, 2011)

> If you spend enough time reading and writing, you can edit your own  work. It takes a certain mindset to look at it objectively, but it can  be done. There are those who tell you it can't. Ignore them. If you set  enough time to studying the language, learning the nuances of it, you  can edit anything short of something written by a professor.



Thank you! This is how I feel. But keep in mind I did have a LOT of people (intelligent ones) review my work in the earlier stages. It was a great help at that time, and I learned so much about writing from it based on all the different things these different people had to say. After that stage I reached a point where I felt confident with my own abilities to rewrite and edit without getting the opinions of others, but it was a process.


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 18, 2011)

I think those with required writing 101 histories in college may have a distinct advantage. As well as having been forced to write many papers in Psychology using APA style.


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## Lord Darkstorm (Aug 18, 2011)

Cat Laurelle said:


> I think those with required writing 101 histories in college may have a distinct advantage. As well as having been forced to write many papers in Psychology using APA style.


Writing technical papers is an advantage?  I have to do technical writing from time to time in my job, and do you know how difficult it is to remember to keep using the same words to describe things over shifting them around like you would in fiction?  

But what do I know?


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## JosephB (Aug 19, 2011)

I’ve written technical features and benefits copy for various products and services – making it interesting is the challenge. If it’s something like a straight up technical manual etc., not so much. But I’ve even revised those to make them more readable and user friendly. I’ve written a good deal of marketing and ad copy too – of course there are opportunities there to be more creative. But I think any writing experience is better than none. It's about getting something down on paper and having the success of it rest on people getting through it -- and learning something or taking something important away. I believe all of it proved to be of some value when I decided to try my hand at fiction.


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## TWErvin2 (Aug 19, 2011)

Some agents will read a novel and make overall suggestions, such as tweaking andending or eliminating a scene. It all depends on the agent.

Editors at a publisher will edit, some publishing houses more than others.

However, you should strive to have your manuscript in the best shape possible.Will it be perfect? No. Neither will it be perfect after it's been edited bythe publisher. Hopefully it'll be very, very close.

Agents and publishers get far more submissions than they could ever hope torepresent and/or publish. Agents can only take on a tiny fraction of what theyreceive for representation. Publishers, especially those that take unagentedsubmissions, get thousands of submissions a year for their publishing slots.Beyond that, agents (if established) already have authors they're representing,and a writer trying to break in is competing against already establishedauthors for the slots in a publisher's release schedule.

The better your work looks, the cleaner and closer it is to ready, the betterchance you'll have. Agents/editors look for reasons to reject a work--don'tgive them an easy reason. And the less time and effort they will have to putinto getting a novel ready for publication, the better your chances. Staffshave been cut back and most editors' responsibilities have increased greatly,so the grammar and story organization are important. Do they really have timeto take on a diamond in the rough, when there are other diamonds out there thataren't quite so rough?

Having written essays and formal papers helps, but isn't quite the same thingas writing fiction. It helps with grammar and such, but not really withstorytelling and dialogue, among other things.

Read your work aloud. That will help some. If you have a buddy or two who knowsa thing about grammar, try to get them to read and help your work. Evenwell-read readers can help spot plot holes or things that aren't quite right. Asolid crit group can help cover a lot of this, if you can find one, but in theend most of the burden will rightfully fall on your shoulders--unless you'vegot a lot of cash on hand to hire a professional editor. There are a lot ofthem out there, laid off from publishing houses, but their services aren'tcheap. With respect to editing, you often get exactly what you pay for.

That's my two and a half cents.

Wishing  you the best, *Cat Laurelle, *as you move forward.


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 19, 2011)

I mean having studied, and memorized APA style, and grammer usage and having had it beaten into one's head during the obtaining of a BA or AA is helpful when one starts a career like this. Otherwise, it would likely be more research and study on the side that a person would need to do on their own.


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## Raging_Hopeful (Aug 19, 2011)

TWErvin, 
I had a question, off topic but related to publishing. Your book "Flank Hawk," I see Gryphonwood Press published the book. I was wondering if you could share your publishing experience and whether your book has had much success through a publisher of this caliber. I am wondering because I seem to be coming across more and more of these kinds of press establishments. They seem sketchy to me but would like to hear from someone with the direct experience. Maybe you could make a separate thread and we could chat on that? I think others would be interested in hearing about the experience as well. Just a thought 

Cheers,
Lindsay


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## Kyle R (Aug 19, 2011)

Advice from an article I once read:

" 
To begin the agent search:

 •
Check the acknowledgement pages of books similar to yours to look for the names of the author’s agent.
•
Ask other writers for recommendations.
•
Use the Internet and key in such words as “writer,” “author representation,” “agent.”



​



Select a few agents and send each a letter which begins — as appropriate:


I recently read ____, which is a wonderful book, and saw that you are ____’s agent. 
Or: 

My friend/acquaintance______, who is represented by you, suggested you as a possible agent for my book. 
Or: 

I read your article in______ about the book business, and was hoping that you might consider me as a future client.
Add a paragraph you’ve written about yourself, and then a paragraph about your novel.

In seeking an agent, remember that you’re an unknown quantity and the top agents are loaded with clients. Aim at those in the middle of any listing of agents. And be sure they actually represent the genre of novel you have written.



Make a photocopy or print out the first fifty pages or so of your novel. Try to leave off at a point where the reader will want to know more of the story.

Buy a sturdy, padded jiffy bag. Look in an office supply store, Kinko's, etc.


Write a very brief letter to the agent. Include the one-paragraph description of your novel that you wrote earlier. And include one brief paragraph about yourself. Do sound professional. Do not say, “I always wanted to be a writer . . .” or “I can write better than the junk I see . . .”
If you are sending your manuscript to more than one agent at the same time, you MUST tell them that this is “a multiple submission.” Either an agent will read it quicker or not at all; either way, you'll get an answer sooner.

In the jiffy bag, put A) the fifty pages or so of your novel, B) your letter to the agent, and C) a #10 SASE for the agent's reply. (You will not get the fifty pages back.)

Get a FedEx mailer of the right size and put your jiffy bag in it. Don’t cut corners here. Look professional.

Entrust your manuscript to FedEx. Keep your receipt. Note the date on your calendar. Don't expect to hear anything for two months. Do not call the agent. If two full months pass and you hear nothing, then you can write a brief note of inquiry.

And lastly, don't worry about rejection. Keep at it. Even Stephen King had his first four novels rejected before someone went out on a limb and gave him a $2,500 advance for a little story called "Carrie".


EDIT: I forgot to mention, the editing is primarily done by you. If you do get an agent interested, he/she may suggest changes then, but you should try to tighten everything up as best you can before seeking publication.


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 19, 2011)

Jiffy Bag??


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## Kyle R (Aug 19, 2011)

Google it


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## C.M. Aaron (Aug 20, 2011)

As far as getting your historian friend to help with editing, beware. He might help, but be skeptical. He probably reads a lot of non-fiction which is exactly the wrong experience for writing/editing fiction. Non-fiction is written very concisely. Compared to non-fiction, fiction is wordy. Non-fiction is very logical and factual. Fiction is very emotional. If you do one well, you probably do the other poorly. I'm not keen of getting an English teacher to help either.  Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Most English teachers/professors are frustrated writers who could not make any money publishing. I can't recall a single lesson from high school or college English that was any use in my writing efforts, and many things they taught were apparently all wrong.


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## Cat Laurelle (Aug 20, 2011)

Intresting take, I loved at least one of my H.S. English Profs.  As for my friend, he's apparently above fiction or associating with it entirely and won't even allow my to broach the subject with him on it. I may join my local writers assoc in Or., Willamette Writers for only 36 bucks and start going to their functions.


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## Baron (Aug 20, 2011)

http://www.writingforums.com/writers-lounge/122624-professional-editing-services-4.html#post1447329


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