# I've lost confidence in my writing



## Moonbeast32 (May 23, 2018)

My story is not all that dramatic, really. I'm not some twinkle-eyed author whose manuscript has been rejected by more publishers than there are stars in the galaxy. I've never finished a draft. in fact, I've only ever written a few pages at a time before giving up the idea. These days, I hardly write anything at all, and I think it's because I have no more confidence in the quality of my writing.

I didn't always feel this way. Ever since age 16, I've been very passionate about writing, fantasy especially. I've tried many times to start a novel, failed, and kept on trying. I kept persisting because I believed I was talented at writing. My friends and family thought so too.

But now, even though my writing has improved, I've been questioning if I have what it takes; if I can even write more than a few pages at a time. I've also realized that my family will say just about anything is good, and my friends have never read anything in their life if it wasn't necessary. 

So I see two possible paths I can take from here: work towards restoring my confidence and dedication, or set out to discover if writing really is something I can/should do. which path should I take, and how shall I do it?

It is not my intention to fish for compliments. Compliments are welcome, but their usefulness ends shortly after making me feel better about myself. I'm looking for soft guidance, not reassurement. I'm sure that I'm not the only person on this forum who has felt this way. Whoever you are, what did you do next? what helped you the most? Maybe it can help me too.

EDIT: A couple people have mentioned showing something I've worked on before. The following is the one and only thing I've posted to this site:

https://www.writingforums.com/thread...hlight=Norebar

I've more or less been doing work on this same idea since.


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## Theglasshouse (May 23, 2018)

...


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## Jack of all trades (May 23, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> My story is not all that dramatic, really. I'm not some twinkle-eyed author whose manuscript has been rejected by more publishers than there are stars in the galaxy. I've never finished a draft. in fact, I've only ever written a few pages at a time before giving up the idea. These days, I hardly write anything at all, and I think it's because I have no more confidence in the quality of my writing.
> 
> I didn't always feel this way. Ever since age 16, I've been very passionate about writing, fantasy especially. I've tried many times to start a novel, failed, and kept on trying. I kept persisting because I believed I was talented at writing. My friends and family thought so too.
> 
> ...




I have most certainly felt the same! Just last week was one such time. I think anyone who wants to write something good, something worthwhile, has felt doubt about his/her own writing. I don't exactly trust someone who _hasn't_ felt that was from time to time.

You said your friends don't read anything they don't have to read, but imply they've read your writing. That's something, right there! 

If you've posted anything here and gotten feedback, that says something, too. Many members will simply say nothing at all if they think a piece has no promise.

You're writing a novel? I suggest you finish writing it. Th sense of accomplishment is worthwhile, no matter what. There's something self confidence boosting about completing a large task.

Hold off on getting feedback until it's finished. 

The acid test is beta readers. Find people who enjoy reading, but don't already know you. Ask them to give you feedback on your work. They are less inclined to give false praise. 

But no matter what's said, you will have done something many never will. And of that you can be proud.


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## Renaissance Man (May 24, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> My story is not all that dramatic, really. I'm not some twinkle-eyed author whose manuscript has been rejected by more publishers than there are stars in the galaxy. I've never finished a draft. in fact, I've only ever written a few pages at a time before giving up the idea. These days, I hardly write anything at all, and I think it's because I have no more confidence in the quality of my writing.
> 
> I didn't always feel this way. Ever since age 16, I've been very passionate about writing, fantasy especially. I've tried many times to start a novel, failed, and kept on trying. I kept persisting because I believed I was talented at writing. My friends and family thought so too.
> 
> ...



I've said this multiple times, because it helped me with multiple aspects of my writing. Collaborate. Analyzing one's own work critically is one of the hardest parts of being a writer. When working with a co-author the lines of creation blur and both parties (after the initial arguments about derailed stories pass) look at the work as a whole, as opposed to individual contributions. The two view-points provides automatic conflict, the shared interest in writing and shared moral the two authors want to address in that particular story keep the flow going (most of the time) in a desirable direction. Character development naturally occurs as both writers must learn think like their characters so as to carry on real-time conversations with each other (through their characters) providing believable and natural comic-relief in a drama or real ife moments of realism in a comedy.


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## Bayview (May 25, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> I didn't always feel this way. Ever since age 16, I've been very passionate about writing, fantasy especially. I've tried many times to start a novel, failed, and kept on trying. I kept persisting because I believed I was talented at writing. My friends and family thought so too.



Why did you believe you were talented at writing? You've never finished a piece of work, so... what was your _initial_ confidence based on?

I've never read anything you've written, but all the same I'm going to make a prediction: you're not good at writing.

Now, that doesn't mean you never _can_ be good at writing, but you seem to be coasting on the idea of raw talent being all that's needed, and I'm not aware of any writer, ever, who's gotten by purely on talent. You also need to put in the work, and since you haven't put in the work yet, you're probably no good. Yet.

So I think you're _right_ to not have confidence in your writing. I think you should stop thinking of writing as being something you just sit down and are able to do.

If you're truly _passionate_ about writing, then absolutely, keep writing. Finish something, polish it, get it critiqued, re-polish it and learn from the experience and then write something else and go through the whole process over and over again. That's the path if you're actually passionate. But if you're only writing because you think (or thought) you have talent? Nah. That's not nearly enough. Without the passion to drive you to get better, raw talent (which you may or may not have) is nothing.

So - we can't tell you if you should keep writing. Do you enjoy writing? Does it make your day better, or worse?


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## bdcharles (May 25, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> My story is not all that dramatic, really. I'm not some twinkle-eyed author whose manuscript has been rejected by more publishers than there are stars in the galaxy. I've never finished a draft. in fact, I've only ever written a few pages at a time before giving up the idea. These days, I hardly write anything at all, and I think it's because I have no more confidence in the quality of my writing.
> 
> I didn't always feel this way. Ever since age 16, I've been very passionate about writing, fantasy especially. I've tried many times to start a novel, failed, and kept on trying. I kept persisting because I believed I was talented at writing. My friends and family thought so too.
> 
> ...



This might sound counterproductive, but I think this realisation is actually progress. It is reflective of a raising of your standards and a broadening of your horizons. This can be very intimidating.

I wrote my first (and thus far only, with the exception of 8 chapters of a followup) novel (it's fantasy too) around the age of 40 - a small grab-bag of years ago. Now, it is entirely likely that the bulk of publishers are going to back off at that, but I don't mind. This is my journey. And yours is yours. A few pages at a time is pretty good. Some people write every day. Others - I think I saw a tweet my Margaret Atwood the other day - don't; they write only when the urge hits them, and often their best writing is done away from the desk.

Thinking back, it was always something I wanted to do; I just didn't realise it. In fact, the bulk of the desire didn't feel like the desire to write at all. It felt, instead, like the tendency to daydream. But there were moments in my life where I thrilled to certain words - a book, a song (_Mr. Tambourine Man_ comes to mind, in particular that line "the haunted, frightened trees"), or something from a film. And yet, when I tried to write, be it a song, a story, whatever, it did nothing for me. Not only was it unmitigated garbage but the process left me depressed and hollow and feeling all cleaned out, and what's more, it left me feeling avoidant of the music or writing or whatever I had previously enjoyed. That, I told myself, is for other people - artists, and the like. I was struck by a major case of impostor syndrome.

Fast-forward a few years. I rediscovered reading, and listened to music once again, and watched films and consumed pop culture and art like everyone else. I rediscovered the joy of experiencing a perfect piece of created something. I didn't produce anything in that time. But the desire, the wish for escape, never left me. In fact it was frustration at that side of me seeming to take over my life when all others around me were taking manful strides in their careers with no obvious worries, that prompted me: why don't I just put all this shit in a book and be done with it. It also helped that I found my voice around that time, so all the parts came together, but as I say, it took time.

Everyone's journey looks different. Find out how yours is shaped. A lot of writers talk about how they "always knew" they wanted to be an author. Not me. Being anything creative was highly discouraged in my family; if you weren't pulling in six figures in some highly demanding job they weren't really interested. But as I matured, I started to own that side of me, and now, even the most cynical family member makes impressed-sounding noises when I mention the less capitalistically-inclined of my endeavours. They ain't reading it though. I'll give them a signed HB copy. 

TL; DR I think all this must come from a desire. If you have that, then the rest is just figuring how to express that desire.


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## Jack of all trades (May 25, 2018)

Finishing is most definitely NOT required to see talent.

A friend's spouse is a very talented artist. Just a few marks on paper shows the talent. A completed painting is not required.

A single written scene can reveal talent. 

Completing a novel is like running a marathon. You may lag behind the crowd, but if finishing is your goal, you have to keep going!


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## Bayview (May 25, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> Finishing is most definitely NOT required to see talent.
> 
> A friend's spouse is a very talented artist. Just a few marks on paper shows the talent. A completed painting is not required.
> 
> ...



Has your friend's spouse ever completed a painting? If not, possibly s/he's (why the gender-neutral "spouse"?) only good at drawing a few lines. How would you know differently without seeing a completed work?


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## Jack of all trades (May 25, 2018)

Bayview said:


> Has your friend's spouse ever completed a painting? If not, possibly s/he's (why the gender-neutral "spouse"?) only good at drawing a few lines. How would you know differently without seeing a completed work?




Gender doesn't matter.

The individual has NOT completed a painting. But that doesn't mean there's no talent.

Completing a large project takes time, persistence, determination and patience, but not talent. Someone lacking talent can write a book, and finish it! Or paint a picture. But they won't be any good without the talent!! Just look at all the really bad books that have been self published! I'm not saying all self published books are bad, by the way. But the bad ones do exist!

You can give ten people a pad and pencil and tell, with just a few lines, who has talent and who doesn't. It's undeniable. Agents do it with written works all the time. I've read that agents decide based on the first hundred words alone. That's the equivalent of a few pencil marks. 

Can a person improve? Sure!! With study and practice you can improve. But talent is not learned. You either have it or not.

My friend's spouse, for the record, does art for an ad agency.


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## Bayview (May 25, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> Gender doesn't matter.




Well, it does make pronouns easier!




> The individual has NOT completed a painting. But that doesn't mean there's no talent.


 As we learn below, the individual has clearly completed many _other _works of art. So, no, it's not necessary for all artists to be painters.



> Completing a large project takes time, persistence, determination and patience, but not talent. Someone lacking talent can write a book, and finish it! Or paint a picture. But they won't be any good without the talent!! Just look at all the really bad books that have been self published! I'm not saying all self published books are bad, by the way. But the bad ones do exist!



Possibly we're using "talent" differently. I think there's a difference between "raw talent" which is essentially useless and "talent" which, to my mind, is raw talent that's been honed and developed into something useful. I don't think someone can have that sort of talent without doing the honing and developing. And while someone can certainly complete a book-length collection of words without talent of either sort, I don't think that proves anything about which people _do_ have talent.



> You can give ten people a pad and pencil and tell, with just a few lines, who has talent and who doesn't. It's undeniable.


 This makes sense to me if you're using the "raw talent" approach. Otherwise, it doesn't.



> Agents do it with written works all the time. I've read that agents decide based on the first hundred words alone. That's the equivalent of a few pencil marks.


 No, I don't think so. Agents aren't necessarily looking for "talent", they're looking for a saleable product. And while an agent may be able to decide whether a product is unsellable within the first few lines, I've never heard of a reputable agent offering representation without reading the entire work. They need to see _all_ the elements in order to be sure they're there; they can't assume they will be just because the first hundred words were compelling.



> Can a person improve? Sure!! With study and practice you can improve. But talent is not learned. You either have it or not.


 Yeah, we're using different definitions of the word.



> My friend's spouse, for the record, does art for an ad agency.


 So s/he has completed lots and lots of artistic work, but just doesn't work in the realm of painting.


OP, I don't think any of this really matters in terms of your dilemma. The main point is that you need to finish something. There's more to being a writer than putting words down on a page in a pleasing manner--you need to learn about plotting and pacing and character arcs and all the rest of the elements that are far beyond what you can tell from a few pages of writing. If you're naturally able to produce all that without practice/training/learning, I'll be amazed, but impressed. Until you do? "Talent", by either definition, is meaningless. Who cares if you have it or don't, unless you can use it?


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## Jack of all trades (May 25, 2018)

Bayview said:


> [/COLOR]Well, it does make pronouns easier!
> 
> As we learn below, the individual has clearly completed many _other _works of art. So, no, it's not necessary for all artists to be painters.
> 
> ...




I completely disagree that completion of anything proves, or requires, talent. I also disagree that "raw" talent must be honed to be worthwhile.

Talent has meaning! It has value!

Someone with talent should be encouraged to use that talent. Someone with desire should also be encouraged, but let's face it, the expectations are different!

Some very talented writers are able to create compelling works without studying character arcs and the like. That is talent. 

One cannot judge talent without seeing the work. And completion of a project does not equate to talent. Completion shows, as I said before, perseverance and other qualities, but NOT talent.

I, too, think the OP should continue to write the novel. Just for different reasons.


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## Theglasshouse (May 25, 2018)

I suggest he not give up writing. Reading other people's work in the same subgenre might be what he needs. Maybe a work was written and he can then reexamine his work in the genre and subgenre he is writing similar to his work. He can defeat writer's block maybe this way. There are a lot of bad stories. He can rethink the mistakes a writer made and change the story to his liking until it shapes into a different story. Maybe he can outline the events in a story and change the circumstances in the plot where it was a boring read. It has to be a book he was enjoying. It could be a creative exercise to get the writing going and defeat writer's block. I think the expression the best writers steal is accurate sometimes. If he invests in stories of his interest or short stories. If rewriting can be considered important, it is worth a try. I remember some time ago a writer make a comment that some people write novels, and some people write them better building of inspiration of that author. (how many spiritual successors where there to lovecraft's works and to lord of the rings). He can outline the novel he has read and change things to his liking until it is no longer the same story. That sounds like plagiarism. But it is ok as long as you drastically change the plot events and especially the characters. Maybe that could work for curing his writer's problem.


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## Terry D (May 25, 2018)

Moonbeast32 said:


> My story is not all that dramatic, really. I'm not some twinkle-eyed author whose manuscript has been rejected by more publishers than there are stars in the galaxy. I've never finished a draft. in fact, I've only ever written a few pages at a time before giving up the idea. These days, I hardly write anything at all, and I think it's because I have no more confidence in the quality of my writing.
> 
> I didn't always feel this way. Ever since age 16, I've been very passionate about writing, fantasy especially. I've tried many times to start a novel, failed, and kept on trying. I kept persisting because I believed I was talented at writing. My friends and family thought so too.
> 
> ...



If you give up the only person who will care is you. The world is full of people who want to be writers but lack the talent and drive to actually sit down and write. If you do have that determination, however, you might find that there are many people who will care -- they just don't know it yet because you haven't given them the chance.

You talk about writing "just a few pages at a time", hell, that's terrific output. Say you scratch out 3 manuscript pages each day -- that's about 750 words in standard manuscript format -- do that every day for four months and you've just completed a 90,000 word novel. But, more than the word count, you'll be getting better at writing too.


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## Ralph Rotten (May 29, 2018)

Bayview said:


> Why did you believe you were talented at writing? You've never finished a piece of work, so... what was your _initial_ confidence based on?
> 
> I've never read anything you've written, but all the same I'm going to make a prediction: you're not good at writing.
> 
> ...







Very well said.  It is harsh advice, but true nonetheless.
...and the argument that followed it was pure Dunning Kruger.


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## moderan (May 30, 2018)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Very well said.  It is harsh advice, but true nonetheless.
> ...and the argument that followed it was pure Dunning Kruger.



This is dunningkrugerdotcom, yes? Oh, wait.


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## Dave Watson (May 30, 2018)

If you want to know if you have talent or not, post a few things you've written in here. You'll always get honest and usually constructive criticism. The only way you'll get your confidence back is to finish something and show it to strangers who will give you the right kind of feedback. If a novel's too much, write some short stories if you've not already done this. As previously said, talent's one thing, and it's a highly subjective thing at that, but it's worth hee-haw if there's not a full story. Having the sack to keep going when things get tricky is what separates the writers from the wannabes IMO.


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## SueC (May 30, 2018)

Hi Moonbeast.



> It is not my intention to fish for compliments. Compliments are welcome, but their usefulness ends shortly after making me feel better about myself. I'm looking for soft guidance, not reassurement. I'm sure that I'm not the only person on this forum who has felt this way. Whoever you are, what did you do next? what helped you the most? Maybe it can help me too.



When I'm feeling a little dry or wondering if I have any skill at all, I try to be more aware of my surroundings. Let me back up a little ... to begin a writing career with a novel can sometimes be daunting. Why not try your hand at a couple of short stories first? I saw a call for short stories in my email just yesterday with a 5,000 word limit, so can be substantial. Now back to the original sentence ... try writing about something you are seeing in your world, like the interactions between two women on a park bench, or a married couple having lunch. Two kids on bikes. Just describe what you are seeing, get the feeling of emotions, reasons, and so on. Describe a park. When you read it back, and can "see" the picture, you'll know you have talent, you know you can reach your readers. Well, that's what I do. LOL. Hope it helps.


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## Plasticweld (May 30, 2018)

I think there is some level of confusion here about the difference between being a writer 'which means nothing' or being a story teller.  Writing is merely the tool used to tell the story.  There are no shortages of skilled writers who have nothing to say.  They do it with perfect grammar and it is boring as all get out. 

What story do you want to tell?  What is the purpose and why should I invest my time in reading it? Your story should be one that you could tell a friend and hold them spell bound.  You should know the beginning, middle and end of the story.  Lots of people achieve those three things in different ways but you should have some idea of where your going. 

Being frustrated at trying to write a story is very understandable if you have no clear idea of what that story is. 

I would suggest you work on doing some short stories, enter some of the Challenges here on the site that teach you some of the needed skills in story telling.   Look at a short story as no more than a chapter.  If you wish view yourself as a novelist.   The skills needed to hook a reader are the same no matter what length your story is. 

Writers and storytellers have one common bond and that is the burning desire to tell and share a story about anything.  It is on their mind and telling it or writing it is the only way to have inner peace. 


If you have no story to tell, you are neither a writer or a story teller, but someone with good grammar skills that writes words on a page that no one wants to read. 


Life is full of stories that happen all around us.  Each of us experience things that are teachable moments in life that we can all identify with.  If I asked you to share a story with me about why you are the person you are....I bet you would have a story and it would be interesting 

*Here   link to this months challange in the fiction LM *


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## J T Chris (May 30, 2018)

I can relate. I gave up writing a few years ago, falling sway to the old adage, "If you can live without writing, then don't," or something to that effect. I dropped out of graduate school and got a routine 9-5.

And here I am again.

Maybe you need to take a break for a while to reflect?


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## Dyeeeee (Jun 2, 2018)

Sounds to me that you used to have a lot of fun writing.

You had to have written some pretty dope stuff in the past. Why not go back and read the stuff you wrote that made you say "Damn I'm good." 

That's your voice. You need that to have confidence as a writer. You may have deviated.

Whenever I feel like that I read the stuff I put down in the past. I said "Damn... this was dope! Why'd I stop?"

You are fatigued. If anything writing starts as a hobby. Something you do because you love it. If that changed go find a new passion. If not, take a break and reflect.


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## Ralph Rotten (Jun 2, 2018)

Maybe take up diorama building. :icon_joker:

There are a million great & fulfilling hobbies out there. Build drones, get into rough porn, pick up a drug addiction, hike the Arizona Trail from start to finish....
Just because you are good at something doesn't mean it's your calling.


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## Theglasshouse (Jun 2, 2018)

Moonbeast. There are a lot of people like you. Unless you try there is no way in knowing. Mind linking us to your favorite work. Don't give up. Nature versus nurture is a debate in writing. Talent versus it can't be taught. Try at least to explain your life experience of successes and misfortunes. I wouldn't call it a failing. For example. What is your weakest area in writing?


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## Jack of all trades (Jun 4, 2018)

I just learned that reasonable people occasionally have self doubt, and thought of this thread. It's OK to wonder if you have what it takes. In order to succeed, though, you have to keep trying.


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## Moonbeast32 (Jun 5, 2018)

a couple people have mentioned showing something I've worked on before. The following is the one and only thing I've posted to this site:

https://www.writingforums.com/threads/172500-Norebar-Foreword?highlight=Norebar

I've more or less been doing work on this same idea since.


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## Theglasshouse (Jun 5, 2018)

I see no reason to quit then. If inspiration is what you need. Find a method. I started a thread on prewriting techniques for creative writing which should be useful for someone when pantsing or freewriitng I think. Since it isnt philosophical and uses the subconcious I plan on using it myself.


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