# Question on Agents (1 Viewer)



## MEShammas (May 12, 2010)

If we want to query or whatever to an agent, does the manuscript need to be completely complete?

Also, short stories do not need agents generally, correct?

Check out agentquery.com if you want. I have these questions because I am looking for an agent now (woo!) or, really, more just scouting around, but still....

Thanks guys, as always.


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## moderan (May 12, 2010)

For a fiction Ms., you'll want it complete. Nonfic queries are generally different. Most agents don't handle short stories except for their novel clients. Some do.


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## Talia_Brie (May 12, 2010)

You can certainly send a query to an agent without a complete manuscript, but be reserved in your expectations. Some may respond, but I would guess that most won't. You are in a much better position if you have something complete to present. If you want to speak to an agent about their expertise/contacts/genres etc, then I would imagine that would be ok. But if you send them a sample of an incomplete work, your responses are most likely to be 'try me again when you are done'.

In dealing with agents, you need to be, among other things, professional. An unprofessional approach to your ideal agent may taint their opinion of you and put future support from them in jeopardy. Personally I don't think that's worth the risk. The reality is that no agent will offer to represent you until you have a finished product anyway.

If you're looking for manuscript advice on something partially complete, then you should approach a manuscript assessor rather than an agent. These guys will charge, but a good one will give you qualified advice. Also, getting a positive review from an assessor makes getting an agent interested a lot easier. How do you find a good one? Look into your favourite authors, and see who they use (for example, Sean Williams uses Driftwood Manuscripts - its right then on his website).

You're right though that a short story generally doesn't need an agent. You submit these straight to the market, although the above-mentioned professionalism is still a good idea. That being said, if you already had an agent, they would do this for you.


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## Linton Robinson (May 12, 2010)

Actually--and I like to emphasize this and point out that is a widely agreed-upon, very standard situation with agents--you DO NOT SEND A MANUSCRIPT WITH A QUERY.

The query is a request to be allowed to show them the manuscript.  This is about as hard and solid as any of these procedure tips go.

Query a novel with 50 pages or three chapters or whatever the agent asks for on their site.  Query a non-fiction book with a request to send a proposal.
Short pieces for periodicals, send the whole thing.

There is no such thing as an "assessor" who will make an agent pay any more attention to your query or manuscript than you can get for it by submitting a query.  Sorry.


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## Ilasir Maroa (May 12, 2010)

Complete the manuscript, _then_ send a query.  Don't use an assessor.


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## Linton Robinson (May 12, 2010)

Spanking?  Did you say "spanking"?    Where?


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## MEShammas (May 12, 2010)

Sweet! Thanks again guys.

P.S.: THE SITE IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!!!


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## Talia_Brie (May 13, 2010)

lin said:


> Actually--and I like to emphasize this and point out that is a widely agreed-upon, very standard situation with agents--you DO NOT SEND A MANUSCRIPT WITH A QUERY.



Dead on. Didn't mention that because I thought it was self evident.


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

I would have thought so.  But you said  





> You can certainly send a query to an agent without a complete manuscript, but be reserved in your expectations.



Perhaps you weren't clear.

My reply wasn't to you.  It was to clear things up for anybody else reading this in order to get an impression about submission to agents.


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## Talia_Brie (May 14, 2010)

You're right. I wasn't clear. By query there, I meant a letter to the agent asking about them, what genres, experience etc. Not very clear, though.


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## garza (May 18, 2010)

deleted


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## LastChanceWeightLoss (May 19, 2010)

I have read hundreds of submission guidelines and they all seem to want something different and very often what they think they want is not what they need. They need to be convinced that the book will sell and I really think everything else is irrelevant to them. These gate keepers are not in business to promote great literature. For them its all about the money. Sometimes they ask what you would put on the dust jacket to entice a reader to buy your book. Perhaps you may want to read some dust jackets of some best selling books and perhaps there are some key words or phrases that will trigger a feeding response from an agent. 

If they think they can make money you may have a chance but then they may steal your idea.


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## strangedaze (May 27, 2010)

LastChanceWeightLoss said:


> I have read hundreds of submission guidelines and they all seem to want something different and very often what they think they want is not what they need. They need to be convinced that the book will sell and I really think everything else is irrelevant to them. These gate keepers are not in business to promote great literature. For them its all about the money. Sometimes they ask what you would put on the dust jacket to entice a reader to buy your book. Perhaps you may want to read some dust jackets of some best selling books and perhaps there are some key words or phrases that will trigger a feeding response from an agent.
> 
> If they think they can make money you may have a chance but then they may steal your idea.


 
I wrote an entire mini-essay in response to this, explaining why most of it is stupid or misinformed or blinded by some weird kind of bitterness. Then my computer ran out of juice and when I plugged it back in, the response was gone. I guess I'll just summarize by saying that I do freelance editorial work for a pretty respectable agency and the literature-hating, greed-mongering fairy land described above doesn't reflect my experience in publishing, or the experiences of those I know in the business.


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## Linton Robinson (May 27, 2010)

Well, it's true so far as the whole "they're not lit mavens, they just want to make sales" thing goes.  And their wish lists and "nobody wants" lists are fantasies that get blown away in a hot second when the right property hits.

But no, they're not going to steal the idea (certainly not an AGENT)


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## strangedaze (May 27, 2010)

Of course they want to make sales. But agents will and do go to bat for projects they believe in, even if those projects aren't the most marketable. Case in point. Before coming to the agency, one of our clients got a novella picked up by a local, but respected small press. Didn't make very much money. He signed with the agency and they sold his new novel to Random House. His new novel was pretty literary, but that's not really what's cool. What's cool is the agent loved the small press book so much - believed in it - that through some seriously hard work (and a lot of faith) he sold it to like six other countries. It's now weirdly popular in Germany. Each successive sale brought in peanuts for the agent, but a nice unexpected boost to the writer. Then the film rights sold. And then the agent brokered a deal where the author is now signed on as a consultant for a cool 20k. All because the agent believed in this little book of great literary worth and seemingly little commercial potential. 

Stuff like that happens all the time and watching the agents I know and work with go to bat for titles they believe in reaffirms by faith in the whole bloody publishing mess.


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## Loulou (May 29, 2010)

strangedaze said:


> All because the agent believed in this little book of great literary worth and seemingly little commercial potential.


 
Ah, books of great literary worth and seemingly little commercial potential!  I guess the risk is on the word seemingly...


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## Linton Robinson (May 29, 2010)

Exactly.  Just like people bet on the seemingly fastest horse and buy the seemingly most likely stocks.


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## caelum (May 30, 2010)

What kind of people become agents?  People who like the whole literary scene and like the social aspect of fighting to get authors published?  Also, does an agent take a significant hit off your earnings from a book if you go through one?  Like, do they get X% of sales or something?  On the other hand, if you have an agent batting for you, do they up your % of earnings from the publisher more than you can normally expect?  The way I understand it is, publishers give the actual author a measly % of the earnings, which is a _tad_ unfair.


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## Linton Robinson (May 30, 2010)

Lots of people become agents.  You look on agency websites--a very good thing to do, by the way--and you see several different backgrounds.
Some moved over from working for publishers.  They have the contacts, know the industry, and instead of punching a clock, figure they can hustle unlimited commissions.  

Some come started out as starry-eyed lit majors reading manuscripts for agents for peanuts and dreaming of being some sort of Algonquin Round Table doyen, darling of bearded writers shortlisted for Nobels and Pulitzers.  (These are the ones that fight for shaky literary projects).   That's also who's screening the MS you sent in when finally the fiftieth agent you queried agreed to see a complete.  Right...uh,oh.
Some are writers who found out they could do better flogging other people's work than doing their own.  Or academicians who figure they can make more money in the real world.

The whole agency world is run by women.  If your book grosses out women, you're a goner. The industy in general is run by women.  Sure there are men up there at the glass ceiling, but it;s run by women the way the army is run by sergeants.   So is publishing, really.  
It's also run, to a very large degree, by college grads, Manhattanites, and Jews.  You scan agent want lists and the word "judaica" keeps coming up.  Along with "women's interest",  multi-culti, and a few others.   Good news if you are writing about the holocaust.  You can't miss.  (Unless you think it was a kind of neat idea or didn't exist). 
Sp a book about a lesbian Jewish black feminist artiste freedom fighter is practially pre-sold. 
Whatever the opposite of that is doesn't stand a chance.

Agents used to take ten percent of what you got for your book from the publishers.  Now that publishers pretty much refuse to look at unagented books, they get fifteen percent.  A co-incidence perhaps.
To be fair, the publishers are pushing more and more of what they used to do on the agents.  All they have to do is say they won't look at a book that's not highly edited, ready for press, pre-publicized and the agents will have to either do all themselves or dump it on the writer.   Guess which?
Both control by selection.  They can't MAKE agents spend money for editing, the agents can't make you do it. But they can ignore you if it looks like there's any work involved.  

Publishers generally pay royalties on a 10-13-15 percent sliding scale (as you hit various numbers of sales, the points increase).  These figures haven't changed since the fifties, probably a lot earlier than that.
This sucks.  Do artists get 10% of what their paintings sell for?   Do musicians get 10% of the ticket sales?   Do athletes?  


See this post on my site: http://linrobinson.com/linrob.php?itemid=86

This is a sort of agent search primer, but if you get into and start looking at agent profiles and agency websites if you're serious about figuring this out.   Lots of agents have blogs.
Kirsten Nelson Agency, out of Denver, has a newsletter you can subscribe to. (Pretty chicklit)  http://www.nelsonagency.com/

Nathan Bransford out of SF has one of the best-known blogs.  http://blog.nathanbransford.com/

Donald Maas, one of the coolest and most powerful agencies, has a very informative site which includes a "wish list", which is fascinating.  As fantasy,, of course.  http://www.maassagency.com/


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## caelum (May 31, 2010)

Alright, thanks a lot, lin.  I'll check out those resources.  Writers really should get a bigger slice of the pie—makes me want to look into self-publishing.  Imagine how rich the likes of Rowling, King, etc. would be.  I've recently memorized the alt code for the em dash—so it's going to be making many—more appearances—in my—posts———oh yeah——


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## Eiji Tunsinagi (Jun 11, 2010)

lin said:


> Lots of people become agents.  You look on agency websites--a very good thing to do, by the way--and you see several different backgrounds.
> Some moved over from working for publishers.  They have the contacts, know the industry, and instead of punching a clock, figure they can hustle unlimited commissions.
> 
> Some come started out as starry-eyed lit majors reading manuscripts for agents for peanuts and dreaming of being some sort of Algonquin Round Table doyen, darling of bearded writers shortlisted for Nobels and Pulitzers.  (These are the ones that fight for shaky literary projects).   That's also who's screening the MS you sent in when finally the fiftieth agent you queried agreed to see a complete.  Right...uh,oh.
> ...


 
This is the funniest thing I've read in a while, mostly because it's all too true.  Which is why my novel about black lesbian firefighters in a Jewish neighborhood in NYC during the 1930s is going to be a national bestseller before I'm even halfway done with it.


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## SevenWritez (Jun 16, 2010)

strangedaze said:


> Of course they want to make sales. But agents will and do go to bat for projects they believe in, even if those projects aren't the most marketable. Case in point. Before coming to the agency, one of our clients got a novella picked up by a local, but respected small press. Didn't make very much money. He signed with the agency and they sold his new novel to Random House. His new novel was pretty literary, but that's not really what's cool. What's cool is the agent loved the small press book so much - believed in it - that through some seriously hard work (and a lot of faith) he sold it to like six other countries. It's now weirdly popular in Germany. Each successive sale brought in peanuts for the agent, but a nice unexpected boost to the writer. Then the film rights sold. And then the agent brokered a deal where the author is now signed on as a consultant for a cool 20k. All because the agent believed in this little book of great literary worth and seemingly little commercial potential.
> 
> Stuff like that happens all the time and watching the agents I know and work with go to bat for titles they believe in reaffirms by faith in the whole bloody publishing mess.





What's the title of the book?


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## JonathanBing (Jun 29, 2010)

Helicio said:


> If we want to query or whatever to an agent, does the manuscript need to be completely complete?



Yes, absolutely.  If you get a favorable response from an agent and he asks you to send the full manuscript, what are you going to tell him?  "Uh, sorry, it's not done yet?"  _Never_ query till your manuscript is 100% complete and as polished and fine-tuned as you can possibly make it.



> Also, short stories do not need agents generally, correct?


In general, this is correct, since they're usually going to magazines.  Books are a different world.



> I have these questions because I am looking for an agent now (woo!) or, really, more just scouting around, but still....


Be warned in advance that getting an agent is, for most people, a long, difficult and frustrating experience.  You'll need the patience of a saint, and the self-confidence not to become discouraged and give up along the way.


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