# On Suicide Awareness Day (Two days ago)



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

Today is National Suicide Awareness/Remembrance Day. And I'm going to be the brutally honest buzzkill of a psych patient and a psych major here. 

Yes, telling people they are loved is important. But will it really change things? No. Not really. Most people know that they're loved. 

As a person who lives with a severe mood disorder, I hate to break it to ya: Life ain't a Disney movie. Love doesn't cure all. Words won't "fix" somebody. It's not even a little band-aid on a severed limb. Not even. 

Mental illness is a mix of biological, genetic, social, and innately psychological factors. Simply telling somebody that you care for them deeply will not solve any problems. 

What we NEED is affordable, accessible mental health care. What we NEED is an end of stigma. What we NEED is an end of gender roles- so that way even men feel comfortable admitting that they feel emotional and depressed. We NEED mental health care that is intersectional and accepts people of all sexual orientations, genders, races, ages, and abilities. What we NEED are more hospitals that are patient-oriented and cater to the patients' needs and wants, and actually do therapy actively, instead of just drugging and locking the patients away from society until they're deemed "acceptable." We need a society that actively is focused on the recovery of people with mental illnesses and psychological disabilities. 

This is of absolute importance as an investment in the future of America. Depression, and suicide, is an increasing problem among youth all across the globe. If you really care about the future, you'll stop investing so much money in goddamn corporations, and start giving more funding to amazing nonprofits like NAMI and Mental Health America that actively work with people who live with mental illnesses, and their families, and help dismantle stigma, and provide support and treatment for people who are new to the mental health community, and let them know that they do not have to live with this alone, and most importantly, that they CAN live through this!


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## escorial (Sep 13, 2014)

excellent read man....so much mental illness is self inflicted...people build prisons they can't get out but the only cure is often inside themselves already.


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

Uhhhhhhh no. 

Have you ever lived with trauma? 

With a brain disease? 

With something that really does require medication to heal? 

Please, go educate yourself on this topic. 

MENTAL ILLNESS IS *NEVER *SELF-INFLICTED.  

holy victim-blaming, man.

- - - Updated - - -

I see what you're getting at, but your wording is HELLA problematic there.


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## dither (Sep 13, 2014)

Dawson,
Suicide is a big deal with me, i have my own very serious views on this, and am happy to share them.
Trouble is, i'm never sure whether or not i'm reading another WIP.
I don't want to cause aggravation here for being "off topic" or that this sort of discussion "doesn't belong".

It's a part of life and thus sure to figure in writings.

I agree with much of what you've said but we DO differ in certain areas.
Matters of opinion.

Is there REALLY a suicide awareness day?


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

Yes, there was really a Suicide Awareness Day. 

It was three days ago. 

And this work is finished. It was meant to provoke discussion.


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## dither (Sep 13, 2014)

I don't think that telling people/ REAL potential suicides that they are loved,valued appreciated, needed, wanted etc. helps. That's just heaping pressure on them.
Mental-illness? Mmmm, maybe? I'm no shrink.
I think for many it's just something that festers within.
You can't change it with talk, and you can't drug it out, although sedation is really a nice place, you can't stay there for ever.

I DO wonder, if there was some place where you could go to end you life legally, how many of these "would be suicides" actually WOULD.

I put a message in a forum once entitled "If only there was some other way".

You see my belief is that those who take their own lives don't REALLY want to die, they just can't face living.
If only there was some other way.
Does that make sense?


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## escorial (Sep 13, 2014)

never self inflicted?


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 13, 2014)

escorial said:


> never self inflicted?




Yeah I think the OP needs to do some research on mental illness himself. There are many things than can cause mental illness including being self-inflicted as you indicated.


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> Yeah I think the OP needs to do some research on mental illness himself. There are many things than can cause mental illness including being self-inflicted as you indicated.



I'm a psych major and live with severe mental illness. 

Have you ever lived with severe mental illness? 

Have you? 

Holy hell.


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

dither said:


> I don't think that telling people/ REAL potential suicides that they are loved,valued appreciated, needed, wanted etc. helps. That's just heaping pressure on them.
> Mental-illness? Mmmm, maybe? I'm no shrink.
> I think for many it's just something that festers within.
> You can't change it with talk, and you can't drug it out, although sedation is really a nice place, you can't stay there for ever.
> ...



Medication can help, if not cure it. 

Psychopharmacology has helped cure many cases of depression. 

To say otherwise is pseudoscience. 

No, antidepressants and antipsychotics don't always work. But for many, going on a course of medical treatment can save lives.


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

Actually, rather than getting all defensive, why don't I just ask you how somebody can cause their own mental illness? 

Rather than, you know, all of the evidence pointing towards the biopsychosocial model?


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## escorial (Sep 13, 2014)

one aspect of mental illness is not chemical imbalance


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

escorial said:


> one aspect of mental illness is not chemical imbalance



Are you anti-psychiatry? 

If so, then let's end our conversation here. 

Because psychiatry saved my life. 

And neuropharmacology is a very valid field of science.


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## escorial (Sep 13, 2014)

i'm glad you found something that worked for you...respect dude


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks for understanding, and not being one of *those people* who is like, "YOU'RE POISONING YOURSELF, EVEN THOUGH YOU CLEARLY NEED THOSE MEDS TO LIVE, OR SO YOU SAY!" 

I understand that it's not for everyone, and would never force meds on somebody. 

But for me, it's made one hell of a difference. 8)


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## Gyarachu (Sep 13, 2014)

Ease up on the aggression Dawson. You're talking to people with firsthand experience. You aren't the only to deal with these issues, nor are you the sole bearer of the knowledge you tout. Stopping attacking people and try to foster some level-headed, reasonable discussion. That's the only way you'll bring the change you seek. Show some sensitivity.


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## Dawson (Sep 13, 2014)

It's just that I KNOW, as a scientist, that there is a chemical component to mental illness. 

And I will not stand for victim-blaming. 

Blaming somebody for having a mental illness is just as bad as blaming somebody for having a brain tumor.


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## JimJanuary (Sep 15, 2014)

I'm on the fence with this one.
What I will say is that treating mental illness as a chemical imbalance (which yes, as a psych postgraduate I agree with) and seeing medication as a 'cure', could actually be seen as disempowering. My understanding of psychology (not psychiatry) is that the end goal is to empower the person to develop skills to manage their own mental health and relieve the distress that they seeked help for in the first place. In the case of medication, I understand that it is used as a backup. If after say a 10-week period of cognitive behavioural therapy and skill development the client was still unable to find some progress or relief from their distress, a psychologist would refer the client onto a psychiatrist or GP to get psychopharmacological opinion, and then the CBT would repeat for another set period of time and hopefully the client would be able to develop skills under the relief of medication. Of course using medication comes with the possibility of withdrawal and maintenance of mental health becomes dependent on the medication itself. So as much as medication could be viewed as 'cure', it needs to be understood that the cure disempowers an individual from relieving their own distress. Now the chemical imbalance perspective, while a commonly accepted hypothesis (and I want to emphasise hypothesis here), also disempowers individuals from their mental health. This perspective views mental health as an act of nature outside of an individual's control. In some ways, dare I say it, it gives people an excuse 'I can't do this because I have depression. I can't get over my depression because it's a chemical imbalance'. Now, don't get me wrong, I've come across people who seem so buried in their depression that it actually seems like something way out of their control, but in order to impart positive change it needs to be viewed as something they have power over; something they can manage to maintain positive mental health. Sometimes this can be done via CBT and skill development, other times it requires some level of medication in order to begin that skill development. But I think what I'm getting at here, is that a true 'cure' needs to be something that empowers an individual, not something they need to rely on (like meds).
It might also be worth noting that a lot of research done into the chemical imbalance perspective is funded by pharmaceutical companies.

Anyway, I'll try and wrap this up. I think we are all susceptible to mood and anxiety issues. Some people can maintain positive mental health through their own management strategies like going for a run after stressful day and sometimes other people need guidance to find this strategies. Mental health can be out our control sometimes though: life events and trauma can take hold and sometimes chemical imbalances can take over (which I might argue can be developed overtime through a series of life events, but we won't get into that). In order for a individual to find a 'cure' from mental illness they need to take on some level of responsibility for themselves. I understand how this perspective could be viewed negative when an individual struggles to find ways to maintain their mental health on their own.
This empowerment perspective is more of a end-of-therapy idea, where the client ideally will know how to respond when they recognise symptoms of their mental illness.

This whole thread pretty much proves that mental illness is a very complex subject and psychology/psychiatry paradigms have changed so frequently over the last 100 years that it's likely this debate will continue for another 100

"Live, love, and learn. You are not a slave to your addictions. You are not a slave to depression." - Pat Flynn


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## BobtailCon (Sep 15, 2014)

dither said:


> I DO wonder, if there was some place where you could go to end you life legally...



Japanese Suicide Forest.. well, it isn't legal. But a lot of people go there.


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## BobtailCon (Sep 15, 2014)

It seems that whenever there is a newly accounted member, they come out guns blazing. Hell, I know I did.


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## dither (Sep 15, 2014)

BobtailCon said:


> Japanese Suicide Forest.. well, it isn't legal. But a lot of people go there.



Bobtail, i think that Law, the system will/MUST eventually allow and assist suicide, maybe not in my life but it will come.
Japanese suicide forest, interesting.
There is that place in Switzerland of course, but that's so expensive

There's a lot of negative stuff spoken about the subject, people need to move away from that imo.


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## escorial (Sep 15, 2014)

BobtailCon said:


> Japanese Suicide Forest.. well, it isn't legal. But a lot of people go there.



that is so sad....i'm struggling to picture such a place


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## Dawson (Sep 15, 2014)

JimJanuary said:


> I'm on the fence with this one.
> What I will say is that treating mental illness as a chemical imbalance (which yes, as a psych postgraduate I agree with) and seeing medication as a 'cure', could actually be seen as disempowering. My understanding of psychology (not psychiatry) is that the end goal is to empower the person to develop skills to manage their own mental health and relieve the distress that they seeked help for in the first place. In the case of medication, I understand that it is used as a backup. If after say a 10-week period of cognitive behavioural therapy and skill development the client was still unable to find some progress or relief from their distress, a psychologist would refer the client onto a psychiatrist or GP to get psychopharmacological opinion, and then the CBT would repeat for another set period of time and hopefully the client would be able to develop skills under the relief of medication. Of course using medication comes with the possibility of withdrawal and maintenance of mental health becomes dependent on the medication itself. So as much as medication could be viewed as 'cure', it needs to be understood that the cure disempowers an individual from relieving their own distress. Now the chemical imbalance perspective, while a commonly accepted hypothesis (and I want to emphasise hypothesis here), also disempowers individuals from their mental health. This perspective views mental health as an act of nature outside of an individual's control. In some ways, dare I say it, it gives people an excuse 'I can't do this because I have depression. I can't get over my depression because it's a chemical imbalance'. Now, don't get me wrong, I've come across people who seem so buried in their depression that it actually seems like something way out of their control, but in order to impart positive change it needs to be viewed as something they have power over; something they can manage to maintain positive mental health. Sometimes this can be done via CBT and skill development, other times it requires some level of medication in order to begin that skill development. But I think what I'm getting at here, is that a true 'cure' needs to be something that empowers an individual, not something they need to rely on (like meds).
> It might also be worth noting that a lot of research done into the chemical imbalance perspective is funded by pharmaceutical companies.
> 
> ...



I'm not just talking about depression. 

You can't just cure my disorder, schizoaffective, with CBT.


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## want2learn (Sep 15, 2014)

Dawson said:


> Today is National Suicide Awareness/Remembrance Day. And I'm going to be the brutally honest buzzkill of a psych patient and a psych major here.
> 
> Yes, telling people they are loved is important. But will it really change things? No. Not really. Most people know that they're loved.
> 
> ...



First of all thank you for highligthing this issue and I agree with you on some points such as we need an alternative solution rather than putting people in the risk of drugs with side effects and them becoming too reliant on drugs.

I do believe that environment and society has huge effect on mental illnesses let me give you an example I recently came back from Morocco this summer 
and was quick to see in the country side where the poor generally reside the happiness that they have created for themselves. They might have little in Western sense
however the tight community knit they have created for themselves their families and sharing whatever they have with each other.


What I am trying to say is that we live in a capitalistic society whereby a lot of people (kids included) early on in life has been drilled into accepting
money = success and materials = success.

Not to forget the working habits of the West such as constant hours sitting infront of a screen and little human interaction other than their working environment.
Families are not encouraged the same way it was say 50/60 odd years ago.

Lastly let me not start with the elderly people and how much they are suffering both mentally and physically in these so called care homes the irony lies in Care.


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## talmaflower (Sep 15, 2014)

I think it's more complex than just 'this or that'.  It doesn't take a genius to see that there are external factors that affect people's mental health.  Some people's mental illnesses might be entirely the product of external factors (an example might be PTSD after experiencing a traumatic event), and for other people it might be entirely a product of their brain chemistry with no external factors at play at all.  (External circumstances might help them a bit, but they'd still develop their condition regardless of environment.)

I think most people's mental illesses are a combination of both factors to various extents.  For instance, someone's brain chemistry might predispose them towards getting PTSD under certain circumstances, but if the traumatic event doesn't happen to them, they might never experience any mental health problems in their life.  

As regards treatment, it seems pretty obvious that different approaches work for different people.  I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist myself, so I don't think about the 'whys', I just think 'If it works for you, go for it!'  Of course, someone needs to think about the 'whys', though, in order to develop new and better treatments - whether chemical or otherwise.


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## Pandora (Sep 15, 2014)

I'll point out the self medicating factor. Which came first the meth, the coke, the hallucinogens, the alcohol, the heroin, the weed . . .
 the combination of the above? Or the mental illness?

Having come from a bloodline of abusers given the proper time and place we have to find a better way as a society. The spirits of suicides are in us all really. It's a crap shoot. My depression was triggered by homesickness, sounds so innocent, enough to want me to leave this world. Emotion is powerful and reality weak. There is a way to build ourselves up, fill up with positives but first we have to get right. For me it was inside me. I had to focus on others not myself. That is living for me, the answer proved simple.


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## dale (Sep 15, 2014)

Dawson said:


> I'm a psych major and live with severe mental illness.
> 
> Have you ever lived with severe mental illness?
> 
> ...



i have. i was placed in an adolescent nut ward at the age of 15. and i believe whole-heartedly i was my own victim.
i believe damn near every time i go into a depression like state it's self-inflicted. and i firmly believe some people are simply
in love with their own sadness and guilt.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 15, 2014)

Like escorial, and I'm guessing Pandora, I think that sometimes, though certainly not always, depression can be self-inflicted. It could be a chemical imbalance i don't know, but for me I have always had a hard time dealing with some of the realities of the world. While Pandora talks of homesickness, I was the opposite always wanting to run away. When I was younger I also suffered from intense loneliness, this despite the fact that I had a reasonable circle of friends, including a couple platonic relationships. While I know intellectually I would never commit suicide it has been on my mind at various times.

Everyone has a different road to travel so the best thing I can say is to take your own road. For me at least, I am finding some comfort right here on this forum.


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## Kevin (Sep 15, 2014)

Dawson darling... he did say some. Some things you are born with. I'm pretty sure I'll never experience hallucinations, not without some added substance. I'll never be bi-polar, addicted or a whole host of things I don't really understand because I've never experienced them. At times I can almost relate to some only because they resemble a temporary mood or situation. You could say that I'm at one end of the spectrum. Lucky, I guess, at least in that respect.


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## dither (Sep 15, 2014)

Food for thought there Dale.


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## dale (Sep 15, 2014)

depression is a multi-billion dollar industry nowadays, which is why very little pseudo-science related to it can really be trusted.


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## escorial (Sep 17, 2014)

dale said:


> i have. i was placed in an adolescent nut ward at the age of 15. and i believe whole-heartedly i was my own victim.
> i believe damn near every time i go into a depression like state it's self-inflicted. and i firmly believe some people are simply
> in love with their own sadness and guilt.



some people can carry on from life altering events and others get stuck in trying to understand why..especially when their depression is a result of somebody else's actions towards themselves..basically they are emotionally bankrupt because they invested all they had in being happy and content with another person. In love with the state of affairs i'm not sure myself but the need for the world to know how awful their now broken life is can become a selfish act that will eventually burn out and they are left to fight on alone....i can totally appreciate your POV on this subject dale.


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## Guy Faukes (Sep 18, 2014)

Here in the West, I think the lack of strong family and community ties are causes for a lot of psychological issues these days. The small things like addressing emotional needs such as anxieties and concerns, as well as lack of sources of insight and wisdom can place many in a constant state of internal conflict. We're also facing fall out from traditional social values, that if there's nothing physically wrong with you, than there's nothing wrong with you. 

I don't think the answer is putting more money into mental health facilities, but developing proactive programs that give people the tools to deal with life emotionally and psychologically.



dale said:


> depression is a multi-billion dollar industry nowadays, which is why very little pseudo-science related to it can really be trusted.



If you're talking about the pharmaceuticals, I can sort of agree with the newer drugs. But, depression itself is pretty well understood psychologically and biologically nowadays. The emotion of being depressed is a natural response to adversity that we feel that we are not equipped to deal with. It may be a stimulus to back down and reassess the situation. It becomes problematic when it endures and prevents one from functioning.


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## dale (Sep 18, 2014)

Guy Faukes said:


> Here in the West, I think the lack of strong family and community ties are causes for a lot of psychological issues these days. The small things like addressing emotional needs such as anxieties and concerns, as well as lack of sources of insight and wisdom can place many in a constant state of internal conflict. We're also facing fall out from traditional social values, that if there's nothing physically wrong with you, than there's nothing wrong with you.
> 
> I don't think the answer is putting more money into mental health facilities, but developing proactive programs that give people the tools to deal with life emotionally and psychologically.
> 
> ...


so you're saying the "chemical imbalance" science attributes to the illness is a reaction rather than an action. i agree.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 18, 2014)

I have an aunt who is a psychologist. Another Aunt who is her sister has her own neuroses and she told me the psychologist Aunt told her that medication can help but it still won't change what is inside of you.


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## CraniumInsanium (Sep 18, 2014)

I'm not gonna waste any more breath than necessary on this thread. I'll be laughing when this same topic gets posted again next year. And the year after that.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 18, 2014)

CraniumInsanium said:


> I'm not gonna waste any more breath than necessary on this thread. I'll be laughing when this same topic gets posted again next year. And the year after that.




And as long as there is mental illness, there will be more threads. Deal with it.


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## Mistique (Sep 18, 2014)

Dawson said:


> I'm a psych major and live with severe mental illness.
> 
> Have you ever lived with severe mental illness?
> 
> ...



No, offence, but I have and I have studied psychology and graduated.

Sometimes it is selfinflicted, but I guess that depends on your definition of selfinflicted. If you mean with it that someone actively and willing caused it so that they would be feeling suididal, then no, nobody does that willing. Sometimes however when you are who you are (caused by whatever led you to that point) and you do the things you do that can sometimes get you to a point where you get stuck into suicidal thoughts.

To pull it away from theoretics....

A few years ago I was sitting on the balcony of the flat I was living in and spend the entire night contemplated how hard the fall would be if I jumped. I looked over the edge (which I did a lot that night) and the depth of it both lured me and horrified me. I knew if I looked long and hard enough I would jump. I knew if I called someone for help I wouldn't jump. Somehow however I was stuck between both and did neither. The months prior to it I was feeling low - very low - but not suicidal. Even then I knew I had to get help and if I didn't I would get to the point where I would be on that balcony. I didn't want to die, at all, but I still knew that months later I would be on that balcony. I was terrified of myself and I wanted someone to stop me. I knew I had lots of loving people around me who would have most happily have stopped me if I would only just tell them, but I couldn't. Day in day out I would sit in the livingroom with my mum, my brother or my husband or I would talk to my best friend on the phone and with every one of them I smiled and told them how well I was doing knowing that I wasn't and knowing that the only thing I needed to do was open my mouth and all of it would stop (or in the very least it would be the first step towards making it stop). I would cry my heart out sitting on the toilet or taking a shower and would smile again when I walked in the livingroom. Somehow me being me (with this hopeless desire to be 'strong' and to 'not make others worry') made it impossible to reach out. The stuff that was going on that made me feel low in the first place wasn't selfinflicted, but everything that came after - this whole trap of wanting help but being unable to ask for it - was selfinflicted and it was the madness of that that took me from being just very low to being sucidal. It was the helplessness of that situation that made me think death was the only way out. Eventually after spending the entire night more or less trapped on the balcony I did reach out. I called someone. I didn't really know what I was going to say, but I figured just dialing the number would be a good first thep. He answered and asked if I was okay. I stumbled over my answer so much (as I still couldn't make myself say that I wasn't okay) that he decided to show up and have a look for himself. Its years later now and by now I have learned that if I feel low (the very first moment that I do feel low) I need to tell someone. I don't have to make a big deal out of it, I don't have to explain all the stuff that is going on. All I have to do is say 'this is a bad day', because if I don't its going to be so much harder later. I still suck at it, but I do try.

I didn't want to be in that state that night and I sure wasn't doing it willingly, but it was definately selfinflicted. It was my own mind that got me to that point. I'm not sure I explained it clear enough, but I definately agree with Escorial; it can be selfinflicted!


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## Mistique (Sep 18, 2014)

Dawson said:


> It's just that I KNOW, as a scientist, that there is a chemical component to mental illness.
> 
> And I will not stand for victim-blaming.
> 
> Blaming somebody for having a mental illness is just as bad as blaming somebody for having a brain tumor.



Its not about victim blaming. Its about finding the causes - all the causes and not just the chemical inbalance ones - that lead to the suicidal feelings so that one suffering from it has the maximum chance of dealing with it. I think that when you are so deadset on 'not standing for victim blaming' you close yourself off to the option that the person suffering from it might actually have a role in it too.

And to follow you in the cancer comparison. No, you don't blame someone for having a brain tumor (that would be cruel beyond believe), but that doesn't mean that there weren't factors in his or her behavior that didn't influence him getting a tumor; like smoking, drinking, unhealthy eating habits and so on. The tumor is not selfinflicted, but that doesn't mean he or she couldn't have done things to reduce the odds of him or her getting one.


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## Mistique (Sep 18, 2014)

JimJanuary said:


> I'm on the fence with this one.
> What I will say is that treating mental illness as a chemical imbalance (which yes, as a psych postgraduate I agree with) and seeing medication as a 'cure', could actually be seen as disempowering. My understanding of psychology (not psychiatry) is that the end goal is to empower the person to develop skills to manage their own mental health and relieve the distress that they seeked help for in the first place. In the case of medication, I understand that it is used as a backup. If after say a 10-week period of cognitive behavioural therapy and skill development the client was still unable to find some progress or relief from their distress, a psychologist would refer the client onto a psychiatrist or GP to get psychopharmacological opinion, and then the CBT would repeat for another set period of time and hopefully the client would be able to develop skills under the relief of medication. Of course using medication comes with the possibility of withdrawal and maintenance of mental health becomes dependent on the medication itself. So as much as medication could be viewed as 'cure', it needs to be understood that the cure disempowers an individual from relieving their own distress. Now the chemical imbalance perspective, while a commonly accepted hypothesis (and I want to emphasise hypothesis here), also disempowers individuals from their mental health. This perspective views mental health as an act of nature outside of an individual's control. In some ways, dare I say it, it gives people an excuse 'I can't do this because I have depression. I can't get over my depression because it's a chemical imbalance'. Now, don't get me wrong, I've come across people who seem so buried in their depression that it actually seems like something way out of their control, but in order to impart positive change it needs to be viewed as something they have power over; something they can manage to maintain positive mental health. Sometimes this can be done via CBT and skill development, other times it requires some level of medication in order to begin that skill development. But I think what I'm getting at here, is that a true 'cure' needs to be something that empowers an individual, not something they need to rely on (like meds).
> It might also be worth noting that a lot of research done into the chemical imbalance perspective is funded by pharmaceutical companies.
> 
> ...



I would definately agree. The way I understand it research shows that its actually the mix of medication and therapy that has the highest chance of succes.


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## Mistique (Sep 18, 2014)

BobtailCon said:


> Japanese Suicide Forest.. well, it isn't legal. But a lot of people go there.




There is actually an organisation in my country - Netherlands - that will assist people in suicide. They won't help you do it, but they will help you research the best way to go about it that leads to the least suffering. They are legal. That doesn't mean however that they will help you do it just like that. There is a long process that comes before the actual sucide in which they give you counceling aimed at discussing it through and helping the person find out if this is truely what they want to do and if there aren't other options they can take. Most people who go to them never attempt suicide at all, but some do and those that do are not alone in that moment of dying. There is nothing worse in my eyes than dying alone.


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## Mistique (Sep 18, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> Like escorial, and I'm guessing Pandora, I think that sometimes, though certainly not always, depression can be self-inflicted. It could be a chemical imbalance i don't know, but for me I have always had a hard time dealing with some of the realities of the world. While Pandora talks of homesickness, I was the opposite always wanting to run away. When I was younger I also suffered from intense loneliness, this despite the fact that I had a reasonable circle of friends, including a couple platonic relationships. While I know intellectually I would never commit suicide it has been on my mind at various times.
> 
> Everyone has a different road to travel so the best thing I can say is to take your own road. For me at least, I am finding some comfort right here on this forum.



I find comfort here too. This is where I reach out (well, not just that, my main reason for being here is writing ) when I can't seem to do it in my 'real' life. Often its just the first step and soon after I do tell someone in my 'real' life.


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## Mistique (Sep 18, 2014)

dale said:


> i have. i was placed in an adolescent nut ward at the age of 15. and i believe whole-heartedly i was my own victim.
> i believe damn near every time i go into a depression like state it's self-inflicted. and i firmly believe some people are simply
> in love with their own sadness and guilt.



Now that took guts. Its nice to see someone willing to say the things that don't sound too 'popular' or 'nice'.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 18, 2014)

Not trying to plug but a few days ago I wrote a blog on depression for anyone who may be interested in my take on it. I'm hoping people can find a small amount of comfort from it.


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## Guy Faukes (Sep 18, 2014)

dale said:


> so you're saying the "chemical imbalance" science attributes to the illness is a reaction rather than an action. i agree.



Eh, chemical imbalance and mental illness is complicated. There are people who are born with faulty wiring or improper levels of neurochemicals. It can be that people have chemical imbalances that predispose them to being mentally ill, like schizophrenics. It also can be that certain mental illnesses cause the chemical imbalance. Depression can be treated with SSRIs, MAOIs, etc, but the person will need therapy to work out what's eating them. The thing is, we don't see psychological or emotional illness (here in the West) as being as substantial as physical illness unless there's a distinct cause, like a family member dying, being in a warzone, etc. There's that "suck it up" notion or "no one's here to give you pity", which (I think), can exacerbate lesser mental illnesses. 



mrmustard615 said:


> I have an aunt who is a psychologist. Another Aunt who is her sister has her own neuroses and she told me the psychologist Aunt told her that medication can help but it still won't change what is inside of you.



This is true. The most effective treatment is often pills to help the immediate symptoms, along with psychotherapy to address underlying issues.


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## CraniumInsanium (Sep 19, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> And as long as there is mental illness, there will be more threads. Deal with it.


  As someone who has experience with depression, suicide and "the struggle" I do deal with it. I had suicidal thoughts for the first serious time this year, the day or so before this thread came up. I'm big on trying to be self reliant. I don't need or want a crutch to prop me up (meaning medication), and I know how to deal with the blues when they hit hard.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 19, 2014)

CraniumInsanium said:


> As someone who has experience with depression, suicide and "the struggle" I do deal with it. I had suicidal thoughts for the first serious time this year, the day or so before this thread came up. I'm big on trying to be self reliant. I don't need or want a crutch to prop me up (meaning medication), and I know how to deal with the blues when they hit hard.




I appreciate that. I responded the way I did because you came off to me as being a bit insensitive. I'm personally not a fan of medication either. I think something like this thread is good for people who may need to talk things out. They (we) know they're (we're) not alone.


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## Bruno Spatola (Sep 19, 2014)

Medication saved a close friend of mine, and has made their lives better in every way. They struggled with severe depression caused by losing a child, being sexually and physically abused daily as a child, having a parasomnia, plus suffering (we found out) from a form of schizophrenia. At the worst moment, they were hearing voices, having strong hallucinations without any sort of reaction to tangible stimuli, accusing the next door neighbour of writing a song about them which had become a hit on YouTube, threatening suicide, telling everyone they'd been kidnapped by police (even though they hadn't left my sight for days), etc. They even accused me of being a pedophile, one time. Their alcohol abuse was a key factor in all of this, but only exacerbated the symptoms they already showed.

After having enough, and begging them to get help time and time again, we had them briefly sectioned for a couple of weeks. They had daily counseling, were given sleeping tablets (which let them have their first truly peaceful sleep in years), and medicated for their illness.The improvement was mild at first, but doctors kept changing the medicine until they reached a balance that left my friend lucid, free of paranoia, alcohol free (most importantly of all), sleeping every night with limited disturbances, and smiling(!). 

Five months on, and they remain the happiest I've seen them in ten years. No conspiratorial mutterings of murder and kidnap to report, yet, and the auditory hallucinations have severely decreased in intensity. We were very lucky that the medicine had this effect, and I'm very aware that it isn't a fix-all for every mental illness, and that everyone is different. This was a last resort, for all of us.

*

For me, I think about killing myself probably once an hour. I have a fatal illness, you see, and my doctor said it's hardly surprising for a 22-year-old to have suicidal thoughts with weight like that pressing down on them. I'm not sad, though -- not really. I'm happy with my sadness. I will probably take my own life before it gets really bad, but I accepted this years ago. That isn't a cry for help, you see, because no-one can help me. Not even myself.

For others dealing with depression, medicine is always an option, but if you feel it would be weak of you to try that, or you object to pharmaceutical companies and the money-makers exploiting you, or whatever, then that's up to you. I think, if it could help you, it's worth a try at least, but some people are happier to deal with their issues in their own way, and I respect that independence greatly.

It's a tough subject, isn't it? There's so much to resolve, and discover about the human mind. Chemical imbalances are likely to be the cause of a lot of mental illnesses, as far as I'm aware, but I believe this is still a topic of contention in neuroscience (based on what I've read). I'm an uneducated layman, mind, so heed me not! 

If I've said anything dumb or insane, please let me know


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## CraniumInsanium (Sep 19, 2014)

mrmustard615-yea, I realize my original post came off as a bit insensitive. I made it short on purpose to avoid a lengthy explanation of  my viewpoint on certain things.   The key I've found for anyone who's interested is counteraction through stimuli. Music in particular works well. Find something that's upbeat that you enjoy listening to. put on a whole playlist of music you'd listen to for workout, or windows down driving kinda music. Something with a high energy. Other times, the stimuli may mean getting out, forcing interaction with people if that's not what you usually do. Getting outside of your comfort zone to let fresh air in while still staying in a safety bubble that allows you to deal with things internally without public discrimination. In other words, a safe activity you can back out of it you need to that lets you stretch your wings. Alchohol works. Sometimes its a passing thing depression, where something drags you down and its just a speed bump you need to get over till the next day. Like a sad movie, or reading an article about death or whatever. That might trigger a temporary downslide, but once you'r back on track and you're good.   Ugghh. Can't believe I'm talking my thoughts out this early. I gotta get to work and deal with the crap I just mentioned above. Life aint great. It could be worse, and on a daily basis there's a thermonuculear war going on at why I'm still at my job, and what I'm going to do to fix my life in the next two years, when I'll have a very unpleasant deadline to deal with. Gaahhh. Laterz


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 19, 2014)

One good thing about a thread like this is that you can express your thoughts and feelings with few repercussions, especially when no one really knows who you are. It makes for a great safety valve.

Dawson if you're reading this, know that you are doing a lot of good here.


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