# "Sand" Voting Thread



## Chesters Daughter

Welcome to another "kid in the candy shop" voting poll! Please read all of the *entries*, and then proceed to cast votes for as many delicious pieces as you see fit, but you may not vote for your own work. *If you vote for yourself, your entry will be disqualified.

*All entries are eligible for critique which should be posted in this thread save for critique on entries that are posted on the secure board. I've created a thread for those who wish to critique secure entries which may be accessed *here*. Please be mindful of where your critique is being posted so that the first rights of entrants are not compromised. 

I remind everyone that all critique, and responses to it, must be directed solely at the work. Any comments that veer into the personal will be promptly removed upon discovery and will result in appropriate moderation for the poster. There will be no baiting, flaming, or trolling in this thread, or its partner on the secure board.

You have ten days to make your selections. This poll will close on *July** 25th at 7pm EST.

Best of luck to all entrants!

And remember, it's all you can eat, so choose as many as you desire!

Please also remember that once the poll has closed, and the results have been officially revealed, you may post your entry on either of the Poetry boards for additional feedback.*


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## sas

In order to choose, I had to read them all over and over...and, that's great!


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## andrewclunn

When I first made my list, I had far too many  Had to be much stiffer and just went with my top two.


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## sas

andrewclunn said:


> When I first made my list, I had far too many  Had to be much stiffer and just went with my top two.



Andrew-

I went with just my # 1 choice.   I am old. Only one grand prize from me. It's an antiquated idea, I know. Few seem to want to make tough choices today.  As I've said to my family for decades (and here), "Don't make a decision by not making one." This trait has become noticeably prevalent to those of us who've lived into our 70+ years. That is the reason the poems receive many reads from me . . .to evaluate for certain criteria. I know they're just poems, but they are important to each writer, so important to me to do my best.


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## aj47

one vote.

sometimes it matters and this is good practice.


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## H.Brown

Voted for mine.


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## ned

missed the boat this month (dashed by the sands of time)
fact is, nothing came to me - so I'm jealous of all these imaginative interpretations....

OK - "Three quarks for Muster Mark!"


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## Firemajic

=D>=D>=D>=D>Fabulous......


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## The Fantastical

Is anybody doing critiques? Just don't want to be the only one if I do post a comment or two.


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## andrewclunn

Wait, we can critique before voting ends?


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## Deleted member 56686

I'd wait until Chester's Daughter comes on to get a definitive answer but I believe there is a thread set aside for critiques. Now whether you can critique before the challenge is actually over, I again have to defer to CD.


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## Phil Istine

I believe the final decision was that critiquing can occur before the challenge is over.  Personally, I would prefer it to wait until after the poll closes, but that wasn't the consensus.


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## The Fantastical

The blurb for this thread said that critiques should go here or in the thread for the secure entries but said nothing about WHEN you can start posting...



> All entries are eligible for critique which should be posted in this thread save for critique on entries that are posted on the secure board. I've created a thread for those who wish to critique secure entries which may be accessed *here*. Please be mindful of where your critique is being posted so that the first rights of entrants are not compromised.


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## midnightpoet

I've assumed critiques should begin after winner is announced just as a matter of fairness and courtesy; I tried it once though and was the only one who critiqued.  For some reason people seem hesitant to critique poems on this contest.


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## The Fantastical

midnightpoet said:


> I tried it once though and was the only one who critiqued. For some reason people seem hesitant to critique poems on this contest.




I have noticed this too.... thus my question about critiques as I didn't want to pull a Tigger and be the only one  lol


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## sas

If we are voting, I say no on critiquing before winner is announced. It is wrong to do so then. Maybe why no one critiques is because it's like saying, well this is why ur poem is going to be a loser. Kidding, folks, just kidding. But, there is that element.


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## sas

Also, I see no point in showing any results, except for the winning poem. I believe that is the real reason so many votes are allowed per person, so no one is offended. Allow one vote per person, and announce the winner.


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## Firemajic

sas said:


> Also, I see no point in showing any results, except for the winning poem. I believe that is the real reason so many votes are allowed per person, so no one is offended. Allow one vote per person, and announce the winner.




:glee: I agree... about not showing the results... that is why I no longer participate in this contest, my fragile ego cannot bear the thought of not getting any votes... hahaaa.... what? well, it's true...


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## escorial

nil par..is so cool I reckon


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## Phil Istine

sas said:


> Also, I see no point in showing any results, except for the winning poem. I believe that is the real reason so many votes are allowed per person, so no one is offended. Allow one vote per person, and announce the winner.



There we differ.  I do like to see how my peers rate what I write, even if it turns out to be a thumbs down.


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## Phil Istine

Firemajic said:


> :glee: I agree... about not showing the results... that is why I no longer participate in this contest, my fragile ego cannot bear the thought of not getting any votes... hahaaa.... what? well, it's true...



LOL.  The flaw in your logic is that I can't imagine any of your poems receiving zero votes.


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## -xXx-

according to the number of entries,
i shoot for 3 votes (a sort of gold/silver/bronze).
there have been occasions where
1 vote fit better.

there are a number of forum poets
that work wonders with any prompt.
choosing between apples and oranges
is a personal challenge.

because poetry tends to be very personal
expression, i attempt to offer critique only
upon request.
courage to reveal, often intimate, thoughts
is more important to me than whether
a traditional publisher expects a thicker skin.

i am never disappointed with the contributions
for this challenge.
jussayin'
<3


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## sas

Phil,  Personally, I would not be surprised if some just cast votes to those poems they believe may not receive any. They are nicer than me. That may be the real reason for allowing so many votes.  Just a few months ago one could vote for every single poem. That is what made me believe that could be the reason. Why else? Or, post the winner & then 2nd and 3rd place like other contests. If one doesn't place in top three that should be enough feedback. 

Having someone of Fire's caliber stay out of contest because of posting total results, says something. She cannot be the only one who feels that way. It sure doesn't surprise me.


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## andrewclunn

Ha!  I didn't realize that the full results would be posted.  The mad courage of ignorance saves me again!


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## The Fantastical

I like the idea of seeing the results as it does give you feedback as a writer; especially as there are few or no critiques. If we do blind results and only announce a winner then we MUST have critiques. Otherwise, we are all just going about this blindly not knowing if we are close to the goal of a good poem or missing utterly.


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## Darkkin

The votes are arbitrary as the merits of a poem vary by reader.  Some poems speak to numerous people, some speak to only a few.  Does popularity determine the inherent quality of a poem or is it popular because it is easily relatable...Something familar and known. 

 With these contests, I tend to run in the middle of the pack, but critique from both online and real world sources support the fact that I turn out decent and profitable work.  Commissions for my _Strangeways to Nowhere _have helped keep me a couple years ahead on my health insurance payments and that is no small feat.  Votes didn't do that...Trusting one's instincts, solid critique (both giving and taking), access to supportive writing groups, and practice have done that.  The monthly is essentially a popularity contest.  A good measure to gauge one's audience and expectations within concisely defined criteria, but not a reliable measure as to the individual merits of a poem or writer as each writer's voice and style is unique.

- D. the T.


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## sas

Of course, you are correct, Darkkin.


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## andrewclunn

Darkkin said:


> The votes are arbitrary as the merits of a poem vary by reader.  Some poems speak to numerous people, some speak to only a few.  Does popularity determine the inherent quality of a poem or is it popular because it is easily relatable...Something familar and known.
> 
> With these contests, I tend to run in the middle of the pack, but critique from both online and real world sources support the fact that I turn out decent and profitable work.  Commissions for my _Strangeways to Nowhere _have helped keep me a couple years ahead on my health insurance payments and that is no small feat.  Votes didn't do that...Trusting one's instincts, solid critique (both giving and taking), access to supportive writing groups, and practice have done that.  The monthly is essentially a popularity contest.  A good measure to gauge one's audience and expectations within concisely defined criteria, but not a reliable measure as to the individual merits of a poem or writer as each writer's voice and style is unique.
> 
> - D. the T.



If i get very few votes then I will like this post.  If I get a lot, then I'll disagree vehemently


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## Cran

There were times when the poetry challenge tried the judging panel model, with critiques (or at least some comments) on every piece. But, finding judges for a challenge became impossible. Worse, no one could agree on assessment criteria or rubric. When it went to popular poll plus comments, I continued to post my assessments of every poem, and included my reasons for my final selection (vote three in those days). Oddly enough, I only ever got positive feedback for doing that, even from those whose poems didn't work for me. Because they knew why it did or didn't work for me; they knew when it came down to an either/or choice.

Yes, polls are simply popularity contests: the poems which connect with or entertain the most people wins the most votes. And the advice was always to vote for the poems you feel are the most deserving. Now, the most deserving need not mean the best (by whatever measure you choose). The reasons for the different voting limits which have been applied over the years are usually given, and the aim with full vote freedom is to get the best overall picture of appeal which can be attained by such a small sample group.

That is the least we can do for our poets who want to know if their poems worked for anyone. You don't learn much from either/or choices. Sure, some people are only interested in the win. I'm not one of them; I'm interested in helping people (as far as I can) with their chosen passion.


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## sas

Cran, 

Sorry, I must disagree. A contest is competitive by definition, and for the win. To find out if a poem "worked for anyone" there are workshops. Sas


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## Darkkin

Just like an election, readers choose those they click with.  (Pardon the pun.)  What the votes mean to each poet is subjective.  To some it is affirmation, to others it defines the parameters of delinated criteria, essentially how well a piece fit the mold.  More often than not, it is a piece with a universally appealing tone and theme that takes the votes because it resonates with more readers.  Voters are responsible for determining what they consider warrants a winning piece.  And within the forum, the popular vote has been the most effective way in determining a winner.   And the individual can express their opinion in two ways, voting and critique.  Not overly technical, but it is a good insight into the whys and wherefores of the readership.

What each poet submits is also subjective.  Sometimes older pieces are entered because they fit the theme, other times a piece is written to fit the theme.  Personally, I've done both.


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## Cran

sas said:


> Cran,
> 
> Sorry, I must disagree. A contest is competitive by definition, and for the win. To find out if a poem "worked for anyone" there are workshops. Sas



But that is exactly why this is not a contest, or a competition; it is a challenge. And it is a challenge for every participant, not just the winner/most popular, not just for those who submit, but also for those who bother to respond. But, that's OK. You can treat it as a contest, and not as part of the learning process, not as a fun way to practice and improve poetry writing. 

A genuine win would be if any even mildly skilled and opinionated poets would put their hands up to properly judge these challenges, and provide genuine feedback across the board.  

I've seen the workshops: platitudes and spitting contests, often with little or no relationship to the poem as presented. Dull droning of dubious opinions tossed into the antagonist's field like grenades or rotten fruit, just to score some last word point, with genuine efforts to help buried among drivel or irrelevancies. Where's the fun in that?


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## Darkkin

Theme is the only criteria, so comparison is a bit like: How is an apple like an okapi...  There is no breed standard like there has been with the PiP.  Two completely different venues.  One objective on a theme, one objective on a technical element or form.

To try and judge something like the monthly would be no small feat, considering how critique is occasionally viewed as a personal affront on a writer, not objective to the writing.  As a reader, once a piece is posted, the writer becomes a moot point.  Ideally it should be about the work.


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## Cran

Darkkin said:


> ... considering how critique is occasionally viewed as a personal affront on a writer, not objective to the writing.  As a reader, once a piece is posted, the writer becomes a moot point.  Ideally it should be about the work.



_<damn! where's the 'Amen to that!' button?>_


And, right there, you have identified the _real_ challenge! Yes, right there!


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## Chesters Daughter

My apologies, I've been temporarily out of commission due to an infection. I must reiterate all of Cran's following points:



Cran said:


> But that is exactly why this is not a contest, or a competition; it is a challenge. And it is a challenge for every participant, not just the winner/most popular, not just for those who submit, but also for those who bother to respond. But, that's OK. You can treat it as a contest, and not as part of the learning process, not as a fun way to practice and improve poetry writing.
> 
> A genuine win would be if any even mildly skilled and opinionated poets would put their hands up to properly judge these challenges, and provide genuine feedback across the board.
> 
> I've seen the workshops: platitudes and spitting contests, often with little or no relationship to the poem as presented. Dull droning of dubious opinions tossed into the antagonist's field like grenades or rotten fruit, just to score some last word point, with genuine efforts to help buried among drivel or irrelevancies. Where's the fun in that?



The challenge from its inception was, and still is, intended as a learning tool. Entrants are presented with a topic and are challenged to create something out of nothing to somehow tie in to said topic, and are expected to present a polished final effort not in need of touch-ups. Critique was allowed within the voting thread during the voting process from the beginning and that remains the same. Critique serves to further the learning experience for all, and while it is true that what's said within comments may be influential, that influence can work both ways. People explaining what they do or not like about a piece can only lend to a piece being explored more deeply by all. There are very few "followers" here who would simply adopt an opinion of another that they did not agree with, therefore critique during the voting process can do little harm as far as the loss of votes goes. It can, however, make points possibly missed thereby enhancing the experience for everyone.

I've said this multiple times before, but no matter how we choose voting requirements, we cannot please everyone. That said, critique will continue to be allowed during the voting process, and the results of the poll will be revealed in its entirety. As this is supposed to be an exercise in bettering us all as poets, no one should be trepidatious as to the outcome, even poems that are superior sometimes do not amass a ton of votes. As for it being a popularity contest, I'd like to believe that votes are not cast with a clique mentality as that cheapens the hard work all the entrants put in. The work should be evaluated for its merit, who wrote it should not be a determining factor. The same applies to critique, no one should be wary of it as it is directed at text, not at the originators, and ultimately helps people improve in the future. This, of course, applies to technical prowess, personal opinions are different in that some people like certain foods while others crinkle their noses at them, it doesn't mean the dish should tossed out and the chef's apron turned in because a few at the table do not like it. Different strokes for different folks dictates the need for "grains of salt" when weighing your feedback.

No one should feel that less votes means lesser quality for that is simply untrue, and not placing in the top three should never dissuade anyone from continuing to participate. The Laureate is lovely accomplishment to vie for, but it does not define this challenge. The true prize here is working with a prompt, creating something you are satisfied with, sharing with your peers, and the exchange of ideas that benefit us all.


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## The Fantastical

Cran said:


> There were times when the poetry challenge tried the judging panel model, with critiques (or at least some comments) on every piece. But, finding judges for a challenge became impossible. Worse, no one could agree on assessment criteria or rubric. When it went to popular poll plus comments, I continued to post my assessments of every poem, and included my reasons for my final selection (vote three in those days). Oddly enough, I only ever got positive feedback for doing that, even from those whose poems didn't work for me. Because they knew why it did or didn't work for me; they knew when it came down to an either/or choice.
> 
> Yes, polls are simply popularity contests: the poems which connect with or entertain the most people wins the most votes. And the advice was always to vote for the poems you feel are the most deserving. Now, the most deserving need not mean the best (by whatever measure you choose). The reasons for the different voting limits which have been applied over the years are usually given, and the aim with full vote freedom is to get the best overall picture of appeal which can be attained by such a small sample group.
> 
> That is the least we can do for our poets who want to know if their poems worked for anyone. You don't learn much from either/or choices. Sure, some people are only interested in the win. I'm not one of them; I'm interested in helping people (as far as I can) with their chosen passion.



I have to say that I totally agree with Cran. I don't know about the rest of you but I have here not to win but to learn. Thus my comment about either show me the votes or give me critiques but you cannot give me nothing as then I don't, can't learn how to do better. I need the feedback to see where I have gone wrong or right. Be it in the form of votes or the form of comments.


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## sas

Fantastical

Votes would not give you the feedback you want. A low scoring poem could be exceptional, but perhaps did not incorporate the theme as well. Workshop comments are needed for that.


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## andrewclunn

It could also betray a bias.  I mean I love haiku, but it would have to be something incredibly amazing to put it above a decent poem of some weight for me to vote for it.  Doesn't mean it's not an awesome haiku, but it feels like awarding the best checkers player the trophy in a chess contest (again according to my own personal biases).


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## The Fantastical

Then we need to motivate people to actually comment. Make commenting mandatory, if you enter you need to critique or else your entry is excluded. Simple.


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## Chesters Daughter

Please remember that entries may be posted on either the Poetry board or the Poets' Workshop for individualized feedback once our winner has been announced.

Critique in the voting thread was once done regularly, over the course of time, it ceased, and whenever it does occasionally surface it seems to make some uncomfortable. We've had people declining to enter because they may be critiqued, and we have had people lose their cool because they did not like the critique they received. With the number of entrants ever dwindling due to the aforementioned, as well as worry over embarrassment if an entry receives a low vote tally, making critique mandatory will likely kill the challenge entirely. Forcing folks to critique won't result in stellar advice imho. And with real life commitments taking priority, I wouldn't want people to bow out because they haven't the time to write and refine a piece and offer up critique to boot. This is supposed to be a fun exercise we as a community come together to participate in.

I'm about to go off on a tangent for a wee bit:

I don't understand the current and too long standing attitude toward critique. If you post on the creative boards, it is a given that you are seeking feedback, and being what it is, feedback won't always be trophies and roses. I cannot stress enough that critique is not personal, nor do flaws in any given piece, or even multiple works, make anyone a shitty talentless hack. It's almost as if people fear receiving critique so limit their posting, and those who offer brilliant but not necessarily positive advice are being vilified for doing so so frequently, they're abstaining, also. The once extremely educational give and take has morphed into wary posters awaiting being pounced upon and having their feelings hurt and then striking back at those who are merely trying to assist and are being mistakenly perceived as demons for being honest. (I get the award for most ungrammatical run-on ever, lol) Everyone's hands are being tied and the process of learning is stagnating as a result. I believe this is the reason critique in the voting thread has dwindled to nothing. I have had my work ripped to shreds, and not nearly as nicely as it's done these days, and although it hurt at the time, I soon realized I deserved it for posting pure rubbish and expecting a pat on the head for wasting people's time again and again. Once I woke up, I learned a great deal from all that negative feedback. While I've won Laureates, I often see my pieces receive few votes but it does not embarrass me, it makes me dissect the work to seek flaws, which I sometimes find and sometimes don't. In the latter cases, I shrug off the lack of acceptance and keep on plodding along. It's a shame to forego something you love because you fear being imperfect, everyone is imperfect at one time or another and if someone comes along to tell you that this or that could be improved, they are not out to get you, they're simply assisting you in your pursuit of perfection. I've waited a long time to say this.


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## PiP

The Fantastical said:


> Then we need to motivate people to actually comment. Make commenting mandatory, if you enter you need to critique or else your entry is excluded. Simple.




If critique was mandatory I would not enter. Simple.  I enter the challenge because the prompt inspires me, not for critique.


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## Darkkin

The Fantastical said:


> Then we need to motivate people to actually comment. Make commenting mandatory, if you enter you need to critique or else your entry is excluded. Simple.



Forcing members to comment, especially given how certain individuals respond to true critique is not right, fair, nor the proper way to engage participation.  It takes free will and choice away from the readers.  What happens if they don't want to comment on a piece? If it were mandatory, I'm guessing the gloves would come off in a hurry.  As a reader, I cherry pick for critique.  Topics I understand or something I actually have a thought about.  I don't critique something simply because it's there.  At least a minor interest needs to be felt by the reader.  And having judged on things like the PiP sometimes finding something constructive to say can be tricky.  Yes, the writer is a moot point, but the world is far from an ideal place and most writers take real critique as a personal insult because empty praise was not heaped on their heads.  Quite simply, people more often than not don't want to hear what readers really think.

I've been on the receiving end of writers' bruised egos.  They make sure you know you are stupid, worthless, and a monster for personally attacking them.  It is obvious you don't know how to read and know nothing about writing, let alone reading.  Nope.  Some pieces might be an interesting read, but aren't worth bothering to critique do to the amount of overt drama attached.  What writers tend to forget is that real critique takes time and involvement.  Critical thinking being much more than a one line empty platitude.

So knowing how some writers react to critique, why would a reader willingly subject themselves to the aforementioned drama when they know full well few will reciprocate with similar and honest critique?  You want to force a rendered service and that is quite simply wrong.  If it were a requirement I would have to say, no I would not enter on moral grounds.  It is not right to expect critique and not give it.  I also know the level of effort that goes into writing my pieces and my critiques, and to expect that of others is not only unrealistic, but unfair.


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## sas

I do not critique these Challenge Poems. I feel if any want critique they will put it where it is expected. In fact, I posted a poem in June's challenge that scored very poorly. I couldn't figure out exactly why, so plan to post in workshop to learn where I went off track. I'm too close to the poem to figure it out by myself.


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## andrewclunn

I fully intend to do critiques once the deadline has passed.  I mean if you're submitting your work to be judged then you should be able to handle critiques.


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## Darkkin

There are reasons I like both the monthly and the PiP.  Both are unique and a good source of inspiration.  But trying to force critique via dramatic statements is shabby netiquette.  And it is exactly the sort of behavior that inhibits a reader's response.  It is entitlement of an individual that can effect the reactions of the group.  The popular vote criteria is determined by the readers, but the choice of critique should always remain in the hands of the readers.  As writers, we are not entitled to a reply.  However, we are entitled to write, share, observe, participate, discuss, and critique. And often you receive as much as you give.  Demanding it negates the needs of the many for the wants of the one.  And that is fundamentally unfair.

History too often repeats itself, and as such, it is easy to comprehend why 'critique' devolves into mudslinging.  Cran and CD are spot on with their observations.  Critique submitted under duress is not going to be objective so much as grudging and that is not a realible measure of any writer's work.


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## H.Brown

Can we put this matter to rest now guys. As has already been said this challenge does not force people to critique, just as it doesn't force anyone to enter. I think that this scoring thread has now come of track and we need to get it back on track.

If you want critique then post your poetry in the poetry forum TF is my suggestion.

Goodluck to all who have entered.


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## Phil Istine

I've not voted yet.  I will finally have some free time tomorrow to run through them.
Good luck to the thread and all who sail in her.


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## H.Brown

Enough. This is a voting thread.

If you wish to continue with this discussion then please make your own thread in the poetry discussion forum.


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## -xXx-

i voted.
on the poems.
did you?


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## Chesters Daughter

*Naughty, naughty. Hannah politely requested, not once but twice, that everyone realize that this is a voting thread and take the discussion aimed solely at the fine art of critique to Poetry Discussion. I have moved all posts that were not directly connected to the challenge itself to the Bistro. Should you desire to continue your discussion, please create a thread in Poetry Discussion. Any further off topic posts in this thread will be pulled. Kindly heed staff directives in the future, not doing so is not only rude, it is ignoring staff and I know you guys are better than that. Thank you.*


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## Phil Istine

-xXx- said:


> i voted.
> on the poems.
> did you?



Yes, eventually 

poet scratched his head
while wielding wooden baton
splinters in both hands


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## andrewclunn

> *Burned Beyond Recognition
> 
> 1.
> He was tatted
> against her breast; latched on
> before love’s sweet milk would dry
> like a sand any breeze could take.
> Heartbeats bruised, yet
> neither sifted for what might be left
> 
> because nothing was, just initials
> left to sag—graffiti
> 
> on flesh abandoned
> and remembered
> and remembered
> in mirrors.
> 
> 2.
> At the wake
> crepe draped each reflection.
> She assured—“It’s all for the best.”
> 
> because nothing was left
> of initials, burned with her breast
> 
> like those same inked letters
> scrawled after “Love, ____”
> on love letters he sent.
> *



I really liked this poem, but couldn't vote for it because I felt like it barely touched the theme.  If the theme had been ink however, it would certainly have been a contender.

Concerning "A Coward's Solution for Unpleasant Recollections"

I think the first thing that made this more difficult to read was the way the lines were broken up.  Most of them could be combined so that each line would be a conjoinment of the pairing, making the rhyming scheme every line rather than every other line.  This would have made it clearer what the pacing for reading would be.  The other was that the length of each stanza grew quickly and then seemed to fade off (fitting thematically with the poem), until the last one which defied the convention in a way that didn't feel like it made a worthy pay off.  Finding a way to make that last stanza less verbose would keep the approach and make the piece more satisfying.

EDIT -

Also, note I only got 1 vote, so don't take my opinions too seriously 

As I continue my uniformed and foolhardy attempt at critique, I found wanting a stronger use of the indented side thoughts in "Nor Any Drop to Drink."  I wanted to feel as though the side tangents distracted an the oasis mixing with madness as the parched narrator imagined the water and peaches.  I feel like using the indenting and the slow drift, and sudden return to attempts at sanity could have visualized this more clearly.  So I took a stab at a few minor changes.*

Nor Any Drop to Drink

*The hills roll on and on,
Sand slipping over sand,
The color of peaches.
Peaches—
||||Sweet and ripe and lovely,
||||And full of cool juice.
||||The sand, it ripples like water,
||||Water—
||||||||Sparkling like twin moons
||||||||Pure, better than if the hills
||||||||Were made of gold dust.
||||||||The desert—
||||||||||||Why does it provoke me?
||||||||||||With visions of fresh springs,
||||||||||||And lush orchards fed by those springs,
||||||||||||Ripe with belladonna,and cherries, and peaches...
The vultures are calling,
In the blue blue sky,
Cry echoing over cry,
Sun—
||||You lovely darling,
||||Cool off, won’t you,
||||For a little while only?
||||Shadowless—
||||||||Yes, the desert is spotless,
||||||||Pale, gentle, undarkened,
||||||||Blank like shrunken canvas,
||||||||Sand—
||||||||||||Spilling over itself forever,
||||||||||||Horizon to horizon, is sand,
||||||||||||Perfect in its irony, metallic on my tongue, 
||||||||||||Bare burning sand in a lovely peach color,
||||||||||||The sun spinning like a gyroscope above all

||||||||||||||||These peaches, why are they so dry?

I have no real criticism (constructive or otherwise) for "The Sands of Tide: Song of the Lamb" I loved it.  One of those votes was mine.


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## sas

Andrew, just noticed your comments. Thanks, for taking time to let me know your thoughts.  Yes, I felt not having "sand" as main topic, would do me in. But, since we can use word anyway we choose, I just wrote what I wanted. I had no interest in sand. I find it difficult to write on what other's choose. Almost impossible, actually. 

I was hoping that poem would be understood, more than hoping to win. My cliff note, if not: It was about mastectomy. 

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## Chesters Daughter

andrewclunn said:


> Concerning "A Coward's Solution for Unpleasant Recollections"
> 
> I think the first thing that made this more difficult to read was the way the lines were broken up.  Most of them could be combined so that each line would be a conjoinment of the pairing, making the rhyming scheme every line rather than every other line.  This would have made it clearer what the pacing for reading would be.  The other was that the length of each stanza grew quickly and then seemed to fade off (fitting thematically with the poem), until the last one which defied the convention in a way that didn't feel like it made a worthy pay off.  Finding a way to make that last stanza less verbose would keep the approach and make the piece more satisfying.



Thank you so much, Andrew. This is an old piece, likely about seven years old. I do see what you're saying about choppiness, I've married them in my head, and for the most part, most would be more easily grasped conjoined save for a few that are too short. Padding them to even syllable counts and maintain smoother continuity would serve to add to verbosity, though. Ay, damned if I do, damned if I don't, lol. I'm a horrid person in that I don't concern myself with stanza length unless I'm writing strictly in form. I use both line and stanza breaks where I feel pauses are necessary for this or that to sink in. Choppiness - guilty. Too verbose - guilty. Verbosity is one of my biggest flaws, always has been, and will likely be something I always battle with. My love of unnecessary adjectives/adverbs will one day see me beheaded, lol.

As old as it is, I'm still fond of this piece's message, and you've given me much to ponder to make it better than it is. Much appreciated, kind sir, truly.


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