# Cove Spring Park



## toddm (May 25, 2011)

In these forums, I have posted mainly pieces that I have already polished and finished and lived with for a while, which I have noticed sometimes renders one a bit resistant to editing later, even when legitimate feedback is given.

However, I was jotting down a new poem the other day, after taking a stroll in the woods, and was beginning to go through it, polishing it up, working out some kinks here and there, but then I stopped and said, you know what, I’ll just submit it “as is” to these forums and let members freely critique it and help polish it up – since I am not so attached to it yet – so have at it:

I had no idea this place 
could be so peaceful and fair
when the morning sun 
with golden-fingers
touches the tender leaves 
quivering in their youth.

There is something heard
in the water tumbling
over many stones:
a music, a fair minstrelsy
of laughing joys
and deeper notes
of hidden wonders.

I venture along
the adjacent path,
with the sonorous song
my ever-companion,
finding fungi and fir-trees,
nettles and acorns,
flower-petals and little vines
with tendrils grasping
the roots and fallen branches
of wizened oaks and elms.

Honeysuckle blossoms
are scattered here
on the forest floor
like faeries sleeping,
dreaming such dreams
as faeries dream
when spring has come.


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## SilverMoon (May 25, 2011)

Toddm, this is one beautiful poem. You write about my favorite gift of nature - the woods. Most of my life I've been surrounded by woods and so your poem - exquisitely written - has captured me.



> when the morning sun
> with golden-fingers
> touches the tender leaves
> quivering in their youth ~


 
A stunning onomonopiea. "The golden fingers of the sun." Great imagery!



> finding fungus and fir-trees,


 
And a really great similie.


I couldn't write a better last stanza.

Thank you for letting me join you on the beautiful path of your woods. Laurie


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## Chesters Daughter (May 25, 2011)

Beautiful as is, don't touch a word. Contrary to belief, I don't despise everything, like Laurie, I love nature and the woods. Lovely encapsulation of a vivid scene. Especially loved S2, adore the sound of a babbling stream, so soothing yet full of life and mysteries answered should you listen hard enough . "quivering in their youth" is grand. Positively lyrical, you hit pay dirt with this one, hon.

Best,
Lisa


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## Trides (May 25, 2011)

Yah. I agree with them. *points to the two ladies who posted above*
finding fungus and fir-trees,
nettles and acorns,
flower-petals and little vines
with tendrils grasping
the roots and fallen branches
I like this because it's like a list of parts of a forest. An inventory. It works.
Also, I agree with SilverMoon that the last stanza rules. Faeries and spring. Awesome.

Although I can't identify with it, because I've never lived by a forest.


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## ppsage (May 25, 2011)

This is very nice as it is, especially for a draft but I think you're right to look for improvement. Since you're looking for crit ideas with an eye to editing this, maybe something to look at would be taking the narrator out from in front of the readers. This seems a natural piece for putting them behind the eyeball, as they say. Maybe look at taking out a couple state of being verbs too. I'm quite a fan of this particular scenery and this sort of poetic description. I'm not a fan of tildes though, why not periods? Viz:

[I had no idea this place: _replace this whole line with something which unpacks "this place"]_
[could>_can_] be so peaceful and fair
when the morning sun 
with golden-fingers
touches the tender leaves 
quivering in their youth ~

[There is something: _yuck_] [heard:_sounding?_]
in the water tumbling
over many stones:
a music, a fair minstrelsy
of laughing joys
and deeper notes
of hidden wonders ~

[I venture along>_Venturing along_]
the adjacent path,
with the sonorous song
[my ever->_ever a_] companion,
finding fungus and fir-trees,
nettles and acorns,
flower-petals and little vines
with tendrils grasping
the roots and fallen branches
of wizened oaks and elms ~

Honeysuckle blossoms
[are scattered>_scatter about_] here
on the forest floor
like faeries sleeping,
dreaming such dreams
as faeries dream
when spring [has come>_arrives_] ~

There might be a sort of inexplicit theme here, in the closeness of the view. It's awesome without being grand, as inspirational as the overwhelming landscape, in a way more intimate and human-scale. If you're looking to add a dash of theme to this, this might be a spot to look. In appreciation, pp.


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## toddm (May 26, 2011)

-Silvermoon:
I must say I didn't think I'd find you first to comment on this piece : ) but I'm glad you enjoyed it - this was my effort to capture the surprising moments I had that day - I'm glad the sense of it could be shared in some small way with others - forest settings are very special to me, as is apparent from many of my poems.

It surprised me also how much you liked the last stanza - I thought you among others would have pounced on it as "going too far" : ) little did I know!

-Lisa:
Your lavished praise truly humbles me - there is a strange fulfullment in writing something that others can connect to - thanks!

-Trides:
You likewise mention the last stanza, to my amazement - it really sealed the piece for me, but I was doubtful others would take to it - thanks ! : ) and oh, and find some forest-scene to explore yourself, somewhere - and then write about it : )


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## The Prodigy (May 26, 2011)

Was browsing through the site, stumbled upon your poetry, and fell into a pile of delight. There is a touch of something that, at the moment, I fail to adequately describe. In sincerity, thanks for treat and mild mental confusion.


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## toddm (May 26, 2011)

ppsage said:


> This is very nice as it is, especially for a draft but I think you're right to look for improvement.


 
Like I said I was going to continue shaping it - thanks for the advice you give me here:




> Since you're looking for crit ideas with an eye to editing this, maybe something to look at would be taking the narrator out from in front of the readers. This seems a natural piece for putting them behind the eyeball, as they say.


 
I've written several nature-pieces in the way you describe - among the ones I've posted here: "out along the silver-stream" and "lines inspired by one line of Shakespeare" - those are how I normally write about nature, no intrusive narrator, no one walking in the scene - just the nature itself - those types of poems come relatively easy to me - in this I wanted to do it a bit differently, since it was so closely inspired by my immediate firsthand experience - it was a bit strange for me to include "I" in the poem, but I went with it.




> Maybe look at taking out a couple state of being verbs too.


 
I'm not quite certain what verbs you have in mind here -




> I'm quite a fan of this particular scenery and this sort of poetic description.


 
Maybe check out those other pieces I mentioned, see what you think.




> I'm not a fan of tildes though, why not periods?


: ) ok, you are not the first to bring those up, and I will go ahead and take them out of this piece - they are just an organically developed characteristic of my writing style - but I do need to get over my aversion to the period. : )




> [I had no idea this place: _replace this whole line with something which unpacks "this place"]_





> [could>_can_] be so peaceful and fair


 I see what you are saying, I'll consider, but the starting point is being a bit surprised by the scene and its enchanting details




> [There is something: _yuck_] [heard:_sounding?_]


 let me know how you really feel : ) is it the "something" that is yuck or the "heard"? 'There is something sounding' - I'm not too keen on a gerund here, since there is a gerund in the next line 




> [I venture along>_Venturing along_]


 I do like "venturing along", and it may have been something I myself would have changed anyway -



> the adjacent path,





> with the sonorous song
> [my ever->_ever a_] companion,


 
I still like "my ever-companion" - it's another personal style point, and "with the sonorous song ever a companion", while good, is not my voice



> finding fungus and fir-trees,


 I will mention that, after I thought about it, "finding fungus and fir-trees" is flawed, as fungus is singular - grammatically is should be "finding fungi and fir-trees", but I simply don't like the sound of the word fungi very much - "finding fungus and fir-trees" was resonating in my mind even while I was walking, after discovering little mushrooms and wild fir-trees along the path, so I may stick with it - "finding fir-trees and mushrooms" is an option.




> Honeysuckle blossoms





> [are scattered>_scatter about_] here


 I like the present tense "are scattered", rather than "scatter about", which sounds like they are still in the process of moving/scattering - I wanted to portray them still and asleep



> on the forest floor





> like faeries sleeping,
> dreaming such dreams
> as faeries dream
> when spring [has come>_arrives_]


 "when spring has come" is exactly the punchline, it has come, it is here - "when spring arrives" seems to imply something slightly different, like it hasn't arrived yet, or is speaking of spring in general arriving - I was talking about _this_ spring "has come" - plus to me it fits rhythmically well with the whole last phrase.




> There might be a sort of inexplicit theme here, in the closeness of the view. It's awesome without being grand, as inspirational as the overwhelming landscape, in a way more intimate and human-scale. If you're looking to add a dash of theme to this, this might be a spot to look. In appreciation, pp.


 I like what you are saying here, and the hint of a theme may be there trying to break through - on the other hand it makes me think, when someone takes a photograph of a lovely nature scene, no one asks why did you take a picture of those trees, or that pretty flower? what are you trying to say? what is your theme or underlying meaning behind that photograph? sometimes it is simply a photograph of Beauty, a keepsake - that's really what this poem is, a keepsake of a very vivid and special ramble in the woods : )

Thanks so much for the input, you have made me think and have helped me and taught me a few things, and how to look at how my work looks through others' eyes.

---todd


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## ISeeBull (May 26, 2011)

I really enjoyed this piece as well, but in this case, I find I have to agree about the tildes with ppsage. I know you've said you use them for soft stops where periods might break up the flow but in this case your poem moves through a physical world and the "I" is not in a state of suspension so I feel like at least two of them would be better off as periods. I would have no complaint if this was a poem about water or something fluid. There is tons of good imagery packed in here and I especially liked the third stanza but if it were up to me I would make "my ever-companion" into ever my companion, which would mean adding a comma after sonorous song. Overall though, I think this is really great.
                            - Ian


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## toddm (May 26, 2011)

The Prodigy said:


> Was browsing through the site, stumbled upon your poetry, and fell into a pile of delight. There is a touch of something that, at the moment, I fail to adequately describe. In sincerity, thanks for treat and mild mental confusion.



You are too kind - I'm glad you found delight in something I've written - means a lot
Maybe let me know which of the poems you like most - thanks for the positive feedback!
---todd


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## toddm (May 26, 2011)

ISeeBull said:


> I really enjoyed this piece as well, but in this case, I find I have to agree about the tildes with ppsage. I know you've said you use them for soft stops where periods might break up the flow but in this case your poem moves through a physical world and the "I" is not in a state of suspension so I feel like at least two of them would be better off as periods. I would have no complaint if this was a poem about water or something fluid. There is tons of good imagery packed in here and I especially liked the third stanza but if it were up to me I would make "my ever-companion" into ever my companion, which would mean adding a comma after sonorous song. Overall though, I think this is really great.
> - Ian



ok Ian and ppsage, tildes are gone from this piece : ) you all were right, and I am trying to be more discriminating about their usage - thanks.

Ian, I tried out "ever my companion":

"with the sonorous song my ever-companion"
"with the sonorous song ever my companion"

to my ear the first one flows rhythmically better (maybe only slightly)

the cliched alternate version would be:
"with the sonorous song my constant companion" - ugh

thanks for the feedback - glad you liked it overall

: ) todd


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## Gumby (May 26, 2011)

I enjoyed the stroll and felt a bit refreshed after reading. I think that it's beautiful and look forward to seeing the polished finish, but don't change it too much, it's lovely.


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## Firemajic (May 26, 2011)

Who cares? Fungi- fungus-You are an artist-you have every right to use your artistic license .
The woods are spiritual to me-that is where I worship.
Honeysuckle blossoms are scattered on the forest floor------gorgeous...Go there? Oh yes-I must-just to worship for awhile...


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## toddm (May 27, 2011)

-Gumby:
thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it - that you felt "a bit refreshed" after reading it really means a lot to me - I read and write poetry for that very feeling.

-Firemajic:


Firemajic said:


> Who cares? Fungi- fungus-You are an artist-you have every right to use your artistic license


 thanks so much, you are too kind - I am a bit of a perfectionist, especially about words - both a blessing and a curse. : )


> The woods are spiritual to me-that is where I worship.


I'm right there with you - when I write about nature, it is that spiritual essence I am hoping to convey.


> Honeysuckle blossoms are scattered on the forest floor------gorgeous...Go there? Oh yes-I must-just to worship for awhile...


Assignment: go to the woods this weekend, or a park or just your backyard, and notice all the little details your senses pick up while "worshipping" - jot them down later and paint the picture vividly with words - then post it here on these forums for us to enjoy : )

---todd


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## BWOz (May 27, 2011)

*Finding Fungus*

toddm:

here is my 2 cents:

Overall I think it is a bit too conversational, even for prose/poetry. Some examples:

First stanza:
"I had no idea this place / could be so peaceful and fair" is as if you are thinking to yourself. You really want your first lines to engage the reader, pull us in. Using "could be" is very passive. I suggest dropping "could be" and adding "of " to the first line..."I had no idea of this place / so peaceful and fair". Gives an instant image, pulls me in more. Also, "this place" is very non descript. It would be better to name the place..."I had no idea of this forest (or field, or valley, or...) that serves to strengthen the picture, the scene you want us to follow you to.

"when the morning sun / with golden-fingers / touches the tender leaves / quivering in their youth."

I would suggest moving things around so you don't end with "...in their youth". Since you have now brought us to this (forest, valley, dell or whatever) instead of "when the morning sun" I think using "where" would be more realistic. You still want to define the "where" rather than the "when".

Maybe like: "Where the morning sun's golden fingers / touch the quivering youth of tender leaves."
In this way you are trimming some of the unnecessary words, brightens the scenery and improves the pace, gives it more precise "foot steps" into your "place".

There is something heard  (give the "something" an identity..."There, marbles of light, rolling under water" )or something similar.)

in the water tumbling 
over many stones: ("many" is not needed, we can picture how many stones would be in a stream or creek. Just say "over stones". Or use another word for stones; again, give "stones" more definition to add liveliness, maybe "granit orbs" or something that tells us what kind of stones.)
a music, a fair minstrelsy (what is minstrelsy?)
of laughing joys (laughing joys is kind of cartoon. "Deeper notes" is very good, describes the sound perfectly. I would strike "laughing joys", it adds nothing of value to the imagery and character of the poem)
and deeper notes
of hidden wonders.

I venture along  (instead of venture, maybe "put forward" or "stride over". Venture is back to cartoon)
the adjacent path, (I would strike "adjacent", just say "path", or "trail" or "foot path"...)
with the sonorous song
my ever-companion, (why "ever-companion", causes  reader to back up. Give it more definition, maybe say "with the sonorous song inside me". 
finding fungus and fir-trees,
nettles and acorns,
flower-petals and little vines ("little vines" is a 'so what' kind of descriptive. Maybe they are willow vines, or could be wild grape vines, or just roaming vines...these strengthen the image)
with tendrils grasping
the roots and fallen branches
of wizened oaks and elms.  ("wizened" is kind of feeble. Oaks and elms are more majestic, perhaps you can say "stalwart" oaks and elms, or "burly" or "resilient"...something that states how majestic these old trees are.

Honeysuckle blossoms (put a comma after "blossoms")
are scattered here (strike "are")
on the forest floor
like faeries sleeping,
dreaming such dreams
as faeries dream
when spring has come.

Hope this is what you are looking for. Some other good comments from others too. 

BW


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## toddm (May 28, 2011)

BWOz said:


> toddm:
> here is my 2 cents: thanks for taking the time to give your feedback
> 
> Overall I think it is a bit too conversational, even for prose/poetry. Some examples:
> ...


 
Thanks so much for your feedback - I have gained insight on how someone else can describe the same things - neither is right or wrong - we need to be true to our own personal voice and style

---todd


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## Firemajic (May 28, 2011)

Todd-I tried to complete the "assignment" you suggested ,but I could not!You have already said it all..So here is what Henry David Thoreau, Walden said  "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately ,
                                        to front only the essential facts of life. and see if I could
                                        not learn what it had to teach , and not, when I came to die,
                                        discover that I had not lived.       

 Only one tiny critique though..I think you should title your poem something else-the feeling of the poem is grand and filled with mystery and vivid imagery-the title---not so much...How about more drama in the title?  The title does not do the poem justice...    sorry-hope I did not offend-Jul


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## toddm (May 28, 2011)

Firemajic said:


> Todd-I tried to complete the "assignment" you suggested ,but I could not!You have already said it all..So here is what Henry David Thoreau, Walden said "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately ,
> to front only the essential facts of life. and see if I could
> not learn what it had to teach , and not, when I came to die,
> discover that I had not lived.


 
I love Thoreau, and Walden - you may have guessed that - great words
but I have not "said it all" nature is inexhaustable in its inspiration : )



> Only one tiny critique though..I think you should title your poem something else-the feeling of the poem is grand and filled with mystery and vivid imagery-the title---not so much...How about more drama in the title? The title does not do the poem justice... sorry-hope I did not offend-Jul



no offense taken, none at all - any suggestions?
the current title was a working title only, but is pretty unusual
I'll give it some thought, thanks!
---todd


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## Firemajic (May 28, 2011)

Sorry-I stand corrected-What I should  have said was "You have already said this with so much Poetic Justice-that I am speechless..See-I AM learning-breaking those old "cliche" habits ...


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## toddm (May 28, 2011)

Firemajic said:


> Sorry-I stand corrected-What I should have said was "You have already said this with so much Poetic Justice-that I am speechless..See-I AM learning-breaking those old "cliche" habits ...


 
excellently said - although, now I am starting to sound cliched pointed out cliches! : )


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## Chesters Daughter (May 28, 2011)

I moved you downed by responding to The Catch, also, so I'm restoring your place. I don't understand all the hubbub, I am truly puzzled. I still think this piece is glorious in its current state.


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## lover (May 28, 2011)

This poem paints a pretty picture, but, to be honest, I'm not sure it does anymore than that. I normally like poems to at least hint at something more than what they literally describes, although this is not always absolutely necessary.

That you for a well described scene.

Lover


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## toddm (May 29, 2011)

lover said:


> This poem paints a pretty picture, but, to be honest, I'm not sure it does anymore than that. I normally like poems to at least hint at something more than what they literally describes, although this is not always absolutely necessary.
> 
> That you for a well described scene.
> 
> Lover


 
thanks lover - I'm glad you found it pretty - a walk in the woods is always refreshing to me, and I hope that a poem like this would be able to give the reader somewhat the same refreshment - so, a bit more than painting a pretty picture, but I seek to do that too.

thanks -
---todd


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## scott777ab777 (May 29, 2011)

I love walks in the woods.

But I really loved this part of the poem the most.

"There is something heard
in the water tumbling
over many stones:
a music, a fair minstrelsy
of laughing joys
and deeper notes
of hidden wonders."

When I read that I could actually hear the water moving over the stones, creating its own melody and song.   Very nice poem.


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## toddm (May 29, 2011)

scott777ab777 said:


> I love walks in the woods.
> 
> But I really loved this part of the poem the most.
> 
> ...



thanks so much for telling me this - sometimes the magic of words is amazing - the power to conjure in the mind of the reader - I do so want to develop that particular magical art

(EDIT note: As you can see, I renamed this piece - thanks firemajic for the prompt to do so - also changed fungus to the plural fungi, more correct that way)

---todd


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