# Tanka Town



## Vitaly Ana (Dec 30, 2012)

Okay folks. Some of us have dared to embark on a journey of epic proportion. We will travel valleys, flats and mountains with the end destination being:

_The inner understanding of Tanka.  (uhhmmmmm)
_

Feel free to study the tanka form of poetry at: 

http://www.tankaonline.com/

Also, feel free to post your own Tanka, comment on others or, just discuss the form in general. Thanks in advance to all brave and bold participants!


----------



## Abbey08 (Dec 30, 2012)

Oh dear! Oh dear! Now I must act like I have a brain:icon_compress:

Let me get myself together, and shall we work first with your poem, V? You can copy it over here, if that would work.

Lorraine


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Dec 30, 2012)

Here it is. I tried this syllable structure
1st Line - 5
2nd Line - 7
3rd Line - 5
4th Line - 7
5th Line - 7

This is just one of the syllable structures of a Tanka. There are several. So here it is - Enjoy it, criticize it and/or enjoy criticizing it 


Will light lead us back
to that shining innocence?

Silver breath quiet
under the clean white moonlight.
Moments of heaven, fading.


----------



## Ariel (Dec 30, 2012)

I'm more than happy to join you ladies here.  Just from the syllable count you were aiming for, Vitaly, I don't see a problem.  Of course, I'm not the best at syllable counts.  I like the imagery but as said in the other thread I didn't think of a love affair first thing.  But maybe that's a good thing?  Maybe the vagueness of the exact action lends a universalness (is that a word?  I think I just made it one).


----------



## Abbey08 (Dec 30, 2012)

Ahhh....Ams,
She's a he. I know...I made the same mistake and was corrected kindly. That's why I just call him V, so much shorter.

Lorraine


----------



## Ariel (Dec 30, 2012)

Oh, I'm so sorry, Vitaly.  I think it's the Ana part that leads to the mistake.  Either way, I'm still happy to join you lovely people here.


----------



## Abbey08 (Dec 30, 2012)

V,
I've quickly read the main essays in the link. Much to process. Instead, I have a comment about your tanka.



> Will light lead us backto that shining innocence?
> 
> 
> Silver breath quiet
> ...



My suggestion for you to consider would be to make the first two lines the last two lines. And...good for you, V: this link emphasizes time after time, through the various essays, that punctuation is to be abandoned!

So then, rewriting:

silver breath quiet
under the clean white moonlight
moments of heaven fading
will light lead us back
to that shining innocence

Now, I read what Ams said about this piece being about a love affair. That doesn't come through for me. And now that it's written the way I did, those two lines being changed around don't even seem to belong. 'shining innocence' sounds cliche and for some reason pretentious. 'will light lead us back' sounds better 'light will lead us back.' That's if you keep these two lines. I like the other three lines very much, although some critters didn't like them as much.

Lorraine


----------



## Kevin (Dec 31, 2012)

amsawtell said:


> Oh, I'm so sorry, Vitaly.  I think it's the Ana part that leads to the mistake.  Either way, I'm still happy to join you lovely people here.



Think: "Vitaly (Ana) Klitchko, Heavyweight champion of the world.." Nice guy; well spoken, highly intelligent; wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley   Just kidding. He'd make a great body guard, _and_ you could discuss poetry...  Oh, and, uhm, Welcome to the forums.


----------



## Ariel (Dec 31, 2012)

*off-topic*

Welcome _back_ you mean.   I have an old profile I don't want to use anymore.  I don't even care for my writing back then.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Dec 31, 2012)

Well my name is purple and has an Ana in it, so I guess I can forgive ya on this one Ams 

Now, onto other matters. Miss Lorraine, how is that Tanka  (that you're going to post on here soon) coming along??


----------



## Abbey08 (Dec 31, 2012)

V,
After the holiday. Gotta go right now; some miscommunication in date and time for a New Year's date  I'll be back in this evening.

Lorraine


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 1, 2013)

*******


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 1, 2013)

I like this Lorraine. Its a strange experience to read a Tanka/American Sentence when you're not used to the form, so this caught me off guard at first...but it grew on me for certain. The first two lines threw me the most. They seem slightly disconnected.

Looking at that resource online I also saw how loosely one can construct a poem in the Tanka form. I tried to stick with the syllable count in mine but saw several examples of published Tanka that did not. Its seems to be the nature of the Tanka (American style) to be somewhat free form.

The pivot line was a really cool aspect of the Tanka that I intend on taking advantage of more in my next attempt at a Tanka. 

Happy New Year!!


----------



## Ariel (Jan 2, 2013)

I found this to be surprising and funny.  I liked the variation on the syllabic count.  It gave this a better flow than a lot of tanka I've seen.

If you lovely people will excuse me and let me hammer something out over the next couple of days I'll happily post next.

*off-topic*
And a word of advice/self-reminder: don't watch "American Horror Story" before bed.


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 2, 2013)

Vitaly Ana said:


> I like this Lorraine. Its a strange experience to read a Tanka/American Sentence when you're not used to the form, so this caught me off guard at first...but it grew on me for certain. The first two lines threw me the most. They seem slightly disconnected.
> 
> Looking at that resource online I also saw how loosely one can construct a poem in the Tanka form. I tried to stick with the syllable count in mine but saw several examples of published Tanka that did not. Its seems to be the nature of the Tanka (American style) to be somewhat free form.
> 
> ...



V,
Funny you should mention those first two lines. I added them to resolve questions/misunderstandings concerning the original American Sentence on another poetry forum. They need some more work, but I felt the need to get something posted.

Lorraine


----------



## Ariel (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm not ready yet!  But I wanted to put forth something about the firm itself.

I may be confusing the tanka with the haiku as I didn't see this mentioned anywhere on that source, but in college when we were going over this form I was under the impression that tanka is meant to draw a comparison between the natural world and the subject.  I'm fairly sure this can be dropped in English tanka.


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 2, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> I'm not ready yet!  But I wanted to put forth something about the firm itself.
> 
> I may be confusing the tanka with the haiku as I didn't see this mentioned anywhere on that source, but in college when we were going over this form I was under the impression that tanka is meant to draw a comparison between the natural world and the subject.  I'm fairly sure this can be dropped in English tanka.



Ams,
You are correct that the nature subject can be dropped in English tanka. One of those many articles over at Online Tanka said as much. Be happy to track it down for you 

The American Sentence is the English version of haiku. If you want some articles to read about haiku, I have links to the supposed definitive haiku for English writers. Let me know.

Lorraine


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 2, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> I found this to be surprising and funny.  I liked the variation on the syllabic count.  It gave this a better flow than a lot of tanka I've seen.
> 
> If you lovely people will excuse me and let me hammer something out over the next couple of days I'll happily post next.
> 
> ...



I'll excuse you Ams. I can hear the nails being driven into the Tanka structure now. I'm sure the finished product will be a fine piece of architecture


----------



## Ariel (Jan 3, 2013)

Actually, I wasn't ready because I'm dealing with work stuff.  I have a rough draft that I'm not happy with but I guess that's what this is about.  I'm working on a lover-snow theme but I'm not sure how the subjects work.  The syllabic count is meant to be 5-7-5-7-7.  I am not as gifted as Abbey as to be capable of making a good turning point in my poem but here goes nothing.

The snowy breath you
exhaled under cloud-dark moon--
frost on my bare skin--
all I need is your chill touch
to melt the ice in my heart.


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 4, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> Actually, I wasn't ready because I'm dealing with work stuff.  I have a rough draft that I'm not happy with but I guess that's what this is about.  I'm working on a lover-snow theme but I'm not sure how the subjects work.  The syllabic count is meant to be 5-7-5-7-7.  I am not as gifted as Abbey as to be capable of making a good turning point in my poem but here goes nothing.
> 
> The snowy breath you  5
> exhaled under the cloud-dark moon--  8
> ...



Ams,
I like what you have here. My suggestions: Unless you're absolutely married to the 5-7-5-7-7, I would instead suggest that you look at the form as short-long-short-long-long. Also, in all my reading, I remember someone saying that you can use articles(a, an, the), but only use them once. You could rid yourself of 'the' somewhere, and get back to the so-called required 31 syllables.

If it were my poem, it would look like this:

from snowy breath
you exhaled under the cloud-dark moon
frost on my bare skin
all I need is your chill touch
to melt the ice in my heart

Just rough also. Remember, no punctuation is necessary, including the dashes that take the place of punctuation; I have seen those dashes surface in American Sentences as well. Your line breaks are supposed to provide the pausing points, if I understand correctly.

There is still no pivot line. Not all tanka has a pivot line. Remember, this is your poem, no one else's. It's a good start; put it aside a few days and come back and try putting lines in different orders, that kind of thing.

Lorraine


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 4, 2013)

*******


----------



## Ariel (Jan 4, 2013)

Abbey, your poetry about nature is so hard-hitting. You don't give animals cutesy imagery, instead animals are frightening and dangerous.  This roadrunner certainly means business and the sparse style of the tanka emphasizes that.  I like this re-write because the language has stepped away from high-end poet to street-level.  I like how nothing but "Wiley Coyote" and "Rated R" are capitalized.  If we weren't working with tanka here I'd say there needs to be punctuation but, as you've pointed out, there really doesn't need to be any--the line breaks work that for us.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 5, 2013)

Really good Lorraine! Such a transition from the cartoon image pivoting to the beastly last two lines. I think this is quite effective! Well done.

Here is the one thing, and I'll research this a little: most (not all) Tanka poems I have seen touch upon nature in a delicate way. This "body slams" it. The poem is cartoon pivoting to reality. Very well done on your part and very effective at the expense of the delicate. Is it worth it? I think its a great poem


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 5, 2013)

What a great start Ams - painted a beautiful scene. 

The "cloud-dark" moon threw me a little and I would do away with the dashes. I would also try and make the touch warm in some fashion so as to melt all that cold imagery you have built up.

Well done!


----------



## Ariel (Jan 5, 2013)

I've been wondering what the effect of alliteration and rhyme would do to this form.  I have something in the works but it really deviates and I don't think the form is quite recognizable as tanka.


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 5, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> I've been wondering what the effect of alliteration and rhyme would do to this form.  I have something in the works but it really deviates and I don't think the form is quite recognizable as tanka.



I say post it, and let the rest of us see. If it's five lines and 14-31 syllables(I got that variation of syllable count from an essay I read about tanka), then why not? I'm curious to see it; if it becomes a short, free verse then it's a short poem, perhaps not tanka. And in another essay I read about tanka, apparently there is a lot of tanka variations that are actually just short free verse. Post so we can dissect!

Lorraine


----------



## Ariel (Jan 6, 2013)

I think this reads more as free verse than tanka but I set out with syllable counts in mind and added alliteration, slant-rhyme, and enjambment as I went.  I don't particularly care for this piece but thought I'd share to hear your thoughts.


Denied the glittering throng
In all their gloried
gilt because I don't belong
to you. I lay down my heart
all you did not want.


_As an aside, I just wanted to let you know that you two have actually pushed me into writing more in this last month than I have in the last three years.  So, a big big thanks to both of you._


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 6, 2013)

Ams,
This certainly is different 

I agree with you that it doesn't read as tanka, although the line counts are right. You've even managed the 2 short and 3 long lines that some people insist belong to tanka.

I'm not fond of the 'glittering,' 'gloried,' 'gilt.' It doesn't feel natural when I read it, somehow. I see that with enjambment, L1 and L3 have an end rhyme, and L5 is slant rhyme. With the rhyme scheme in place, I'm not sure I'd say this was true free verse either. 

My favorite part:



> I lay down my heart
> all you did not want.



Lorraine


----------



## Ariel (Jan 6, 2013)

I'm not sure I like all the alliteration with how short this is either.  It feels heavy handed but I'm not sure how to work it out and not lose something with this one.  I couldn't think of anything to end this with but I agree with you, Abbey, those two lines are my favorite too.

I'm going to take this to my workbook.  I think I need to play around with this one manually.


----------



## Nee (Jan 7, 2013)

The promise of spring 
Lay crushed under the icy
Thunderheads climbing 
High above heavens bleak and 
Dusty road toward salvation.



Cast upon the strange
Topography of my own 
Wanton disregard 
Of my childhood’s innocence
I walk alone in the dark.

Gee...look at me all bright and cheerful this morning.


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 7, 2013)

Nee said:


> The promise of spring
> Lay crushed under the icy
> Thunderheads climbing
> High above heavens bleak and
> ...



Hi Nee,
Welcome to our merry little tanka band 

About the first poem:
I am all about imagery and for me, the imagery must make sense. 'icy thunderheads' sounds pretty, but I cannot imagine them. In L4, you've broken on a conjunction; as far as I'm concerned, you've wasted a syllable when you used 'and.' I realize that 'and' makes the 7th necessary syllable. I don't understand how L5 relates to the rest of the poem. Just me.

About the second poem:
I really like this one. It has good imagery and makes sense.

Have you looked at the Tanka Online link that V gave in the first post here? There are many variations of tanka; the essays provided about them are of interest.

Lorraine


----------



## Ariel (Jan 7, 2013)

Welcome Nee.  I really like the second tanka, here.  It isn't set in solid imagery but it's still really nice.

The first one is really nice.  I get icy thunderheads because here in Missouri we get freak thunderstorms that have thunder and lightning as well as snow. And that's what this makes me think of.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 7, 2013)

Nee said:


> The promise of spring
> Lay crushed under the icy
> Thunderheads climbing
> High above heavens bleak and
> ...



Nice job on the second poem. (Applause) The one thing that threw me was the "topography." It automatically separated me into an overhead view of things, so it was hard to connect to that abstract. However, I think you did a great job after reading it a couple of times. Thanks again for sharing!!


----------



## Nee (Jan 8, 2013)

Crickets snap and click 
Under the damp forest leaves
Lizards exorcize
In the dry prickly heat 
As I dream about the beach


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 8, 2013)

Nee said:


> Crickets snap and click
> Under the damp forest leaves
> Lizards exorcize
> In the dry prickly heat
> As I dream about the beach


 
Should L3 be 'lizards exercise?' As you have it, the lizards are casting out evil spirits and I can't get my head around that image 

To my way of thinking(that results from an essay on tanka that I read), you've used a lot of articles to fill the syllable count; some of those 'the's could be traded for more words that relate to the poem without sacrificing meaning and sense.

Another nice one.

Lorraine


----------



## Ariel (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't know, I have no problem imagining a Gila lizard going around in little brown robes yelling at chameleons, "the power of Christ compels you!"

The more I think about it the more it amuses me.


----------



## Nee (Jan 8, 2013)

I saw the typo before posting, of course...but, I thought the pun was funny. And seeing how puns are very rare in Japanese poetry I though I'd leave it in.


----------



## Ariel (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm looking forward to seeing a revision from Vitaly.  Or a new tanka.

By the way, I'm having trouble with syllable counts.  Is the word "crescent" one or two syllables?


----------



## Nee (Jan 9, 2013)

Crescent = 2 syllables... Cres / Cent.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 10, 2013)

Been crazy busy this week - promise to do the Tanka Tango soon


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 11, 2013)

footprints sink
in the golden grass below
the gum tree
with dark-green rubber leaves
veiling rooted intricacy


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 11, 2013)

Nee said:


> Crickets snap and click *(I had to look twice at click because I automatically read it as lick for some reason)*
> Under the damp forest leaves *(i like the imagery except i would be more specific with forest. I would change forest to a specific tree - tropical in nature)*
> Lizards exorcize   -- * I would change "exorcize" though I appreciate the pun  *
> In the dry prickly heat
> As I dream about the beach


 *Great last two lines. I like these a lot. *

Thanks so much for posting. This was very well done and enjoyable to read.


----------



## Ariel (Jan 11, 2013)

Vit, what was your intended count because I'm getting 3-7-3-6-8.  Now, I know I'm not the best at counting syllables so someone else might give you a better and more accurate count.

Overall, I like the imagery.  I could picture this very clearly. 

Apparently my mind is in the gutter today because footprints were not the only thing I imagined sinking into that grass.  Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I first read "intricacy" as "intimacy."


***sort of off-topic***

The Fella has been writing tanka and haiku as well, apparently.  I think he's stalking me.


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 11, 2013)

Yep. Ams has the syllable count right. But we established long ago that tanka can be from 14-31 syllables in length, so it doesn't bother me.

Now...I read 'intricacy' as 'intimacy' as well; with things sinking into the grass, rubber, and intimacy, it makes for quite a sensual poem. Probably not the intention ;( Oh well, I learned in a quick snapshot poem I posted elsewhere that what you intend and the meaning that comes out of the reader are two different things sometimes 

I like this one V. This is why you should keep trying.

Lorraine


----------



## Nee (Jan 11, 2013)

.


As the leopard creeps
The boy herds his goats closer
To the hungry cat. 
Hmm…it’s a hard decision
Nice  goat, or plump little kid? 
.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 11, 2013)

Abbey08 said:


> Yep. Ams has the syllable count right. But we established long ago that tanka can be from 14-31 syllables in length, so it doesn't bother me.
> 
> Now...I read 'intricacy' as 'intimacy' as well; with things sinking into the grass, rubber, and intimacy, it makes for quite a sensual poem. Probably not the intention ;( Oh well, I learned in a quick snapshot poem I posted elsewhere that what you intend and the meaning that comes out of the reader are two different things sometimes
> 
> ...



Haha - Here I am trying to write a sweet little poem about an innocent little Gum Tree and look what happens. Ahhh, Ok I'll try another one soon.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 11, 2013)

Hey Ams, 

Yeah, I tried to go

L1 - Short
L2 - Long
L3 - Short
L4 - Long
L5 - Long

keeping it between 14-31 syllables. I'll keep working on these Tanka's if everyone else does


----------



## Ariel (Jan 11, 2013)

Told you my mind was in the gutter.  And I'll keep working on them.  I like the form.


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 11, 2013)

Vitaly Ana said:


> Hey Ams,
> 
> Yeah, I tried to go
> 
> ...



I'll keep on V.

As far as the syllables and lines, you were successful with the pattern 

Lorraine


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 14, 2013)

Harmonics sung 
through cold cracking Boston air.
Piercing with heat,
Making my chilled blood thicken.
Your song simmers, over my soul.


----------



## Nee (Jan 14, 2013)

Oh well...I thought that one was funny anyway. 



Nee said:


> .
> 
> As the leopard creeps
> The boy herds his goats closer
> ...



So how 'bout a more sober one then?
.

The moon rose over 
The mountain’s black jagged edge
Where the angels leaped 
Away from the sad bleating
Of the lamb’s ruined folds.

.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 16, 2013)

Nee said:


> Oh well...I thought that one was funny anyway.
> 
> 
> So how 'bout a more sober one then?
> ...



Hi Nee,
Tell ya what, I like the syllable count for a Tanka and i like the image of the mountain edge, moon and angels. Where I stumbled was, when I hit the last line and the lamb crept in to play. However, you've got the structure and syllable count right. 

I like it. Tanka on!! (keep posting)


----------



## Abbey08 (Jan 16, 2013)

Vitaly Ana said:


> Harmonics sung
> through cold cracking Boston air.
> Piercing with heat,
> Making my chilled blood thicken.
> Your song simmers, over my soul.



V,
I missed this one. I think this is your best to this date! 

Lorraine


----------



## Ariel (Jan 16, 2013)

Nee, I don't know what "lamb's ruined folds" is.  Otherwise I don't have a problem with this one.

Vit, I think this one is sweet.  Very poignant.  I'm not even going to try a syllable count because 1) it's late for me and 2) Abbey is better at it.



I wonder if there are any poetic forms from other Asian cultures that we can adapt to English.  Maybe something from India?  Maybe do a fusion thing to it?


----------



## Nee (Jan 16, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> Nee, I don't know what "lamb's ruined folds" is.  Otherwise I don't have a problem with this one.



The Lamb's ruined folds. 

Be literal. 

...get it?


----------



## Ariel (Jan 19, 2013)

Literally all I can think of is a sheep pen that's destroyed or a bad sheepskin.


----------



## Nee (Jan 19, 2013)

* sigh *

The hope is always that the lost lamb will be returned to its fold.

And the Shepherd of shepherds is the Lamb of God. 

This is a lament of lost souls.


----------



## Ariel (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm not a Christian so the imagery is always a little lost on me.  Sorry.


----------



## Nee (Jan 21, 2013)

Nor am I. 

Perhaps next time, I'll do one from a Islamic point of view


----------



## Ariel (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm still working on this and would appreciate if you guys were still with me.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm here Ams, and working on one as well 

Looking forward to seeing your post!


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 28, 2013)

Force owns a fit set
of non-identical twins: 
_Rest _and _Exertion. _
Abuse of either power? 
Gods must intervene.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 28, 2013)

Batter up Nee, Ams or Lorraine 



...or anyone willing to tango with tanka


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 29, 2013)

Hey Lorraine. I like the revision but I am curious as to why you revised the original...?

Good stuff, (as usual) 

:abnormal:


----------



## Ariel (Jan 29, 2013)

Hey, V, all I can think of is that this one is about Star Wars.  Which is pretty awesome.  I'm pretty well medicated at the moment and I'm pretty sure I'm seeing things that aren't there so I could be wrong.


----------



## Ariel (Jan 29, 2013)

Heavy cloud-hearts drag wet
salt greyed streets. Reverberating
copper drum misses you
through sleep-slowed heartbeats
     my heart screams for you.

*this last line is supposed to be indented but it won't take.


----------



## Vitaly Ana (Jan 30, 2013)

Hey Ams. Hope you feel better 

I like the sort of sleepy dream-like feel to this piece. The last line is nice but seems to be a large contrast from the first 4. Perhaps that was intended?

Thanks for keeping Tanka alive. Take care!

(Do you know where Lorraine is?) Haven't heard from her lately


----------



## Ariel (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks, V.  I think I wrote this yesterday when the meds kicked in.  It was all rainy yesterday then there was thunder and lightning--I don't remember writing this so I think the poem was influenced by all of that.

O_O

And I haven't seen Lorraine either.  I hope she's ok.


----------



## Firebird (Feb 28, 2013)

Beautiful!

Thank you for sharing.

firebird


----------

