# too slight to last



## Absolem (Jan 14, 2017)

Times lost and forgotten
Memories Of the past
Sheeted ghosts whose shadows begotten
To put out a light too slight to last

A mist of a dark thought 
Clouds memories of the past
Sheeted ghosts who float and haunt
With dark shadows they cast
Blotting out a light, not quite so bright
A light too slight to last

These Spectors
 drink darkness like nector
With dark shadows they cast
Never,To spare an ember
Snuffing out a light too slight to last


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## Firemajic (Jan 15, 2017)

Sorry, when you asked about posting these, I thought you meant that there were 2 versions of the same poem... my mistake...


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## Absolem (Jan 15, 2017)

Firemajic said:


> Sorry, when you asked about posting these, I thought you meant that there were 2 versions of the same poem... my mistake...


See how ya are


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## Firemajic (Jan 15, 2017)

Use your "Edit" button and delete one of the poems, if you would rather...


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## Darkkin (Jan 16, 2017)

Absolem said:


> Times lost and forgotten
> Memories Of the past
> Sheeted ghosts whose shadows begotten  Something is off with this line.  The use of begotten in this context is incorrect.  You are writing for the rhyme and really stretching to make this line fit into your box.  It isn't working.
> A simple fix: e.g. Sheeted ghosts, shadows begotten  (Lose the whose).  You don't need it.  Try reading aloud as you write, this will help check overwriting.
> ...



I like the idea, execution...There are some issues that need to be looked at.


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## Absolem (Jan 17, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> I like the idea, execution...There are some issues that need to be looked at.


Why lose the 'whose'?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the word 'put.'

The second stanza has subtle differences then the first as a form of 'evolving' the poem sort to speak. I find it necessary.

I don't find the final stanza 'wonky' at all. Reads fine to me. The rewrite has three words changed. Is that really necessary?


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## Darkkin (Jan 17, 2017)

Absolem said:


> Why lose the 'whose'?
> 
> I don't think there's anything wrong with the word 'put.'
> 
> ...



The whose is a filler pronoun in a four word line, two of the other words are already nouns,  the other is an adjective and a verb.  What purpose does whose serve in that line?  This is where you really need to take a look at things, you shove as many nouns, pronouns and prepositions into a line as you can and everything clumps together.

It is the same story with put, you have four nouns and their associated adjectives riding on a single very obscure verb.  You don't balance your objects to their actions.  The same pattern, recurrent, over and over again.  It is the same with the repeated subjects and reiterated words.  You don't consider your word choices and it shows.

I think as a writer you need to start asking some serious questions about your work.  Are you posting for actual critique or simply adulation?  From what I've seen you don't appear to consider editing a viable part of the writing process, as readers, we are supposed merely oh and ah...And while critique is simply an opinion, sometimes it hones in on things we would rather ignore.  

If you think your piece is above reproach kudos to you.  Don't change a thing.  That is your prerogative as a writer.  If you don't like a critique simply say thank you and move on, but do not take the reader's observations for granted.  Remember that the reader did not have to bother to read you work.  And since this piece is absolutely perfect from the moment you clicked post, no point in critiquing further.

As you seem want only sunshine and rainbow replies, the best of luck to you.

- D. the T.


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## Absolem (Jan 17, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> I think as a writer you need to start asking some serious questions about your work.  Are you posting for actual critique or simply adulation?  From what I've seen you don't appear to consider editing a viable part of the writing process, as readers, we are supposed merely oh and ah...And while critique is simply an opinion, a lot of times it hones in on things we would rather ignore.
> 
> If you think your piece is above reproach kudos to you.  Don't change a thing.  That is your prerogative as a writer.  If you don't like a critique simply say thank you and move on, but do not take the reader's observations for granted.  Remember that the reader did not have to bother to read you work.  And since this piece is absolutely perfect from the moment you clicked post, no point in critiquing further.
> 
> ...



You can't critique something and have it be the end all be all. I'm glad you took the time to go over this piece but I have questions. Its one thing to add what needs to be done because of accepted poetic form and grammar. Its another thing entirely to compromise the integrity of the work because you 'prefer' it written different.


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## Darkkin (Jan 17, 2017)

Not saying you need to change anything; it is your piece.  I'm asking you to explain to reader what the function of S2 is.  And the reasoning because I said so, doesn't really answer the question.  I can respect the sentiment, but the question still remains.  You repeat what was said in S1, you don't progress the piece, so my question as a reader is, what was the purpose of S2?  All you did was reiterate, what does the reader gain from that stanza?  As we know what happened in S1 why do we need to hear it all again?  Have you considered making S2, S1 instead?

You have better imagery and grammar in S2.  Try reading the piece starting with S2, once with S1 and once without.   Is that repeat the absolute defining element of your piece?

Basic point A to point B.  Where on the path does S2 that move the  reader to?  This is something you need to take into consideration.   Think about showing the progression, don't write yourself into a box  with repetition.


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## Firemajic (Jan 17, 2017)

Absolem, Here is something that might help you bring into focus your poem,
This is a template for judging poems entered in the Poets In Progress challenge;

Title: 10 points
Message:15 points. 
[what is the poet saying? is the message coherent]

Mood;15 points
[does the poet create a mood through imagery, and does the mood enhance the message?]

Imagery: 15 points
[Imagery supports the message and strengthens the mood, adds depth and texture, helps the reader connect to the message, makes the read more powerful.]

Mastery of technique/ form: 25 points
[What form did the poet use, how well did the poet use that form, did that form enhance the poem]

Movement: 10 points
[ does the poem move from point A to point B in a coherent manner, does the poet stay focused on the message]

SPAG: 15 points
[Does the poet pay attention to spelling, grammar and punctuation ]


If you were scoring your poem, what score would you give each area? this scoring is a good way to check your work... I use it...


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## Absolem (Jan 17, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> Not saying you need to change anything; it is your piece.  I'm asking you to explain to reader what the function of S2 is.  You repeat what was said in S1, you don't progress the piece, so my question as a reader is, what was the purpose of S2?  All you did was reiterate, what does the reader gain from that stanza?  As we know what happened in S2 why do we need to hear it all again?
> 
> Basic point A to point B.  Where on the path does that move the reader to?



*S1*
Times lost and forgotton
Memories of the past
Sheeted ghosts whose shadows begotten
To put out a light too slight to last

I establish the rhyme scheme and theme here.

*S2*
A mist of a dark thought
*stays with theme*
Clouds memories of the past
*reiteration for the sake of poetic aesthetic*
Sheeted ghosts who float and haunt
With dark shadows they cast
Blotting out a light not quite so bright
A light too slight to last

There are subtle differences between the two stanzas. The seconds supposed to add and progress what's been said. The reiteration is meant to add aesthetic appeal. Didn't mean for it to be redundant.


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## Darkkin (Jan 17, 2017)

It reads like shampoo directions: lather, rinse, repeat.  Where precisely is the progress?  You don't go anywhere, just restate the imagery, which we got in S1.  How does that move the reader forward?  What function does the overinfused aesthetic serve?  This is where the heart of the issue rests:  The Impressive Clergyman dilemma. ('Wove...Twrue wove, that dweam wiffin a dweam...)  It sounds pretty so it has to stay.  We are still stuck on the overpass.  Where is the exit?  

You don't need S1 to establish the scheme, S2 holds water all on its own.  Like with Arrow's piece a couple weeks ago, the piece doesn't start until halfway in...That is when you hit your stride.  Consider starting with S2.

Is the repeat from S1 to S2 absolutely essential?  Do you think S2 is strong enough to stand on its own and support the weight of your message?  From a reader's standpoint it is the better of the two stanzas, but because of S1 it loses a lot of its momentum.  Best foot forward, that being S2.


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## Absolem (Jan 17, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> It reads like shampoo directions: lather, rinse, repeat.  Where precisely is the progress?  You don't go anywhere, just restate the imagery, which we got in S1.  How does that move the reader forward?  What function does the overinfused aesthetic serve?  This is where the heart of the issue rests:  The Impressive Clergyman dilemma. ('Wove...Twrue wove, that dweam wiffin a dweam...)  It sounds pretty so it has to stay.  We are still stuck on the overpass.  Where is the exit?
> 
> You don't need S1 to establish the scheme, S2 holds water all on its own.  Like with Arrow's piece a couple weeks ago, the piece doesn't start until halfway in...That is when you hit your stride.  Consider starting with S2.



Okay


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## Darkkin (Jan 17, 2017)

S2 has the better imagery, balance, and grammar, think about leading with it.  Also consider using the criteria template firemajic provided.  _That_ was an inspired idea.  (May have to borrow that template.  Never thought of trying that.  :wink


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## Firemajic (Jan 17, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> S2 has the better imagery, balance, and grammar, think about leading with it.  Also consider using the criteria template firemajic provided.  _That_ was an inspired idea.  (May have to borrow that template.  Never thought of trying that.  :wink




Yeah, I need all the help I can get... 
That is another reason I use stanzas, Absolem, a stanza is a definite shift in the poem, moving it forward... from point A to B, with the final stanza as the conclusion of the poem. Come out of the gate swinging and go out the same way... and remember, your title is the hook that draws your reader into your world.
Rhyme, if used is like... mortar in the wall of your poem, it is in the background, not too obvious, but holding your work together. 
You have them "writing bones" [ another rcallaci quote] take the time to put some meat on them bones...


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## sas (Jan 17, 2017)

Would you tell me, in prose, what you want to say in this poem? I'd like to re-read it with that in mind. It could help us both. Thanks. sas


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## Absolem (Jan 17, 2017)

sas said:


> Would you tell me, in prose, what you want to say in this poem? I'd like to re-read it with that in mind. It could help us both. Thanks. sas



I can try.

These dark shadows are relentless. Cursing the wake. The shadows they cast look gigantically down on the ant hill that is our life. Relentless and merciless, these Spectors won't stop until they've consumed every last dying ember of our fragile, burning heart.


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## sas (Jan 17, 2017)

Your prose response is not prose, but more poetry. Hmmm. Do you actually talk like this?


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## Absolem (Jan 17, 2017)

sas said:


> Your prose response is not prose, but more poetry. Hmmm. Do you actually talk like this?



Haha sometimes.


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## Absolem (Jan 23, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> It reads like shampoo directions: lather, rinse, repeat.  Where precisely is the progress?  You don't go anywhere, just restate the imagery, which we got in S1.  How does that move the reader forward?  What function does the overinfused aesthetic serve?  This is where the heart of the issue rests:  The Impressive Clergyman dilemma. ('Wove...Twrue wove, that dweam wiffin a dweam...)  It sounds pretty so it has to stay.  We are still stuck on the overpass.  Where is the exit?
> 
> You don't need S1 to establish the scheme, S2 holds water all on its own.  Like with Arrow's piece a couple weeks ago, the piece doesn't start until halfway in...That is when you hit your stride.  Consider starting with S2.
> 
> Is the repeat from S1 to S2 absolutely essential?  Do you think S2 is strong enough to stand on its own and support the weight of your message?  From a reader's standpoint it is the better of the two stanzas, but because of S1 it loses a lot of its momentum.  Best foot forward, that being S2.



Doesn't sound incomplete losing the first stanza?


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## Darkkin (Jan 23, 2017)

No, because the imagery is clear in stanza two, stanza one is grammatically unsound to begin with.  Come out swinging.  Say it once; say it well.  Reiteration is not an endearing or effective element in poetry.


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## Absolem (Jan 24, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> No, because the imagery is clear in stanza two, stanza one is grammatically unsound to begin with.  Come out swinging.  Say it once; say it well.  Reiteration is not an endearing or effective element in poetry.



What about Poes poem Ulalume?


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## Darkkin (Jan 24, 2017)

That is Poe.  Not you.  You want to use repetition, learn how to be effective with it.  In this case, you weren't.  That first stanza is a false start, but its your poem, so the decision rests with you.


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## Absolem (Jan 24, 2017)

Darkkin said:


> That is Poe.  Not you.  You want to use repetition, learn how to be effective with it.  In this case, you weren't.  That first stanza is a false start, but its your poem, so the decision rests with you.


Well it can be done correctly. The form isn't useless.


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## Darkkin (Jan 24, 2017)

Never said it was; the issue rests in how it is utilized.


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