# The Butterfly Effect



## shedpog329 (Dec 11, 2017)

RGE


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 11, 2017)

> The domino effect of a few bad apples bitten




take their turn in existence*'*s wild chase.
Possessive apostrophe

I found a dictionary of cliches once and thought 'interesting', but when I opened it I realised I knew them all. That second line sets the bar high, and I don't think you quite reach it again, but it's good. I wouldn't  have re-used 'bad apple', the variety helps make it work, and the stop after 22 has turned the next letter A into a capital, really you need,  22.,  Though I admit it looks awkward. A Monday morning excuse?


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## Birb (Dec 11, 2017)

I liked it! 

I'm not much of a poetry guy, so it's always impressive to see well written poems (and I see a lot here) so thanks for posting this!

Sadly, as I am not much for poetry, I can't give you much of a technical critique. I thought it was good though


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## CrimsonAngel223 (Dec 12, 2017)

There are words that I would remove and 'I am' should be I'm as that would read better.


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## ned (Dec 13, 2017)

hello Shed - back to your mysterious ways?

for I have no idea what this is about, with too many vague abstractions clashing for attention.
 - unpredictable chaos?

I was hoping for resolution in the final line - but can find no connection between the ideas here or anything else in the poem.

some readers no doubt, will be charmed by the turns of phrase and the disparate concepts - but, for me,
if the message doesn't come through, then what is the point?

bring it back to earth, so us mere mortals can comprehend....

till = til...............Ned


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## shedpog329 (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm gonna go against my regular pattern, that is, a neglectfulness of the misunderstood, and try to explain my thought process here for you ned.

The notion I was getting at here was sort of a humble overtone, especially towards the end.  I feel like often, especially in seeking religious salvation, people tend to play the blame game...a lot.  It can trigger a mass genocide of who did what and who else is as fault.  Me personally, being a part of the LGBTQ community, I often find that people tend to look deeply into my flaws and then project those flaws onto a whole class of people.  It is the drive then for the subjected to seek out those very same, said flaws, and project them onto a secondary class, in an attempted angst to prove we are all human, we are all flawed.  For me, I think I'd rather find the good in people, all people, despite if they are only there to seek out my imperfections.

If that doesn't clear it up for you, maybe you could point out some parts you didn't understand and I will try my best to explain my thoughts for you.  Thanks ned.


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## SilverMoon (Dec 13, 2017)

Shedpog, I partiularly loved this lines! Unique and unforgettable.



> a bad apple excuse.





> Pick your poison, there’s a rainbow of flavors.



As well, for your generous explaination of your poem.  Laurie


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## ned (Dec 13, 2017)

hello Shed - thank you for your considered explanation - but you miss the point.
I would rather have the message, whatever it is, revealed in the poem.


the opening, ok, I'm thinking of a person from the wrong side of town. 
The next verse should add further detail and narrow down the specifics.


Instead, the ideas widen, and I don't know what I'm dealing with.
Nothing in this verse perceptively ties in to your explanation.


the next verse contains 'rainbow' - a single word in the whole poem to express your community 
- is far too obtuse and subtle for most of us, I would say.


the ending does not ring any bells regarding your explanation of religion verses non-stereotypical genders.


maybe, you should stick with one message, and make that clearer.


thanks again for taking the trouble...........Ned


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## shedpog329 (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm sorry ned but I believe it is revealed in the poem but I can however see some point where it may trail

For example in the second stanza I began to phrase life's terms as a form of literature.  Maybe I should change that subject.
As far as the whole stanza itself, I do not believe it trails away from the point.  I metaphorically explain life or "literature" as a child's game
of duck duck goose.  Where everyone or every "word" is a duck until someone ends up being the so to speak "bad apple" or the "goose" and thus is chased around the circle until they are caught.  Then the game begins again where the said "goose" than picks the circles next accused "goose"...in latent terms.

As for the word "rainbow" yes it does express a sense of pride for me.  To me a very beautiful way of expressing it.  I suppose "a rainbow of flavors"  could also be interpreted as "a variety of choices"

The whole poem is a game of duck duck goose.  "Viscous circle" "Catch 22" "Pick your poison"

The ending was supposed to refer back to the Butterfly Effect, where in theory, is a traceable input with an unpredictable outcome.   This is for me personally where its religious undertone ties in.  I suppose I saw the common man as someone who has a lot of support.  (Many religions have out cast LGBTQ and use this as a common binder)  "Authority is chair",( where all my little ducks happen to be sitting), is a frequently used metaphor for authority and how its legs are its support.  If the legs were to break, than there would be no support and authority would crumble.

I can't say the poem is perfect ned, I wrote it using a list of common metaphors to be honest(I may have been caught out by Olly) .  This is my first poem I've written in a year so I had given it my best shot. As I learned some about Linguistics in college I may read too deep into things and that may reflect in my own writing, you might just be too literal ned for my metaphorical abstract mind.  Some will like, some will not. But I gave it a go...Oh well.


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## Bloggsworth (Dec 13, 2017)

So - Is it the butterfly effect, or the domino effect? They are not the same; the one the randomisation of consequence; the other, an orderly and linear collapse.


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## shedpog329 (Dec 13, 2017)

I suppose ned is right, that it is very vague when it comes to its religious construct.  Its kind of like a this vs that. It starts out the Domino Effect or the known consequence (hell lets say) of a "a few bad apples bitten" vs towards the end, the butterfly effects unpredictability.


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## ned (Dec 13, 2017)

hello - yes Shed you gave it a go........and no poem is perfect.

make a stronger connection with the readers, touch common ground if you can.
what is the crime and who are the perpetrators? - a minority, I would suggest, persecuting a minority.
which makes it rather specific - so, spell it out if you have to, and go lyrical on the further considerations.

otherwise, it's a shame that all these lovely phrases and surprising turns are wasted.
clarity over linguistic flair, in certain places, would better serve the message. 

cheers.......Ned


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## HorseDragon (Dec 13, 2017)

_[Oh, you are really going to hate me. I'm going to get a bit tedious in my explanation in order to make a point, so I'd best apologize for that straight away. Please remember that I am not an expert in poetry, and that I'm being dispassionate in my explanation.]_

The thing about poetry is that the author's thoughts|feelings|imagery must resonate with some expectations of the reader. We sometimes accomplish that by employing some agreed upon form or another, whether with or without a rhyme scheme. Of course, there are forms that intentionally buck historical or even modern trends. My expectation is admittedly lyrical - a natural roll off the tongue; something easy to memorize and pleasurable to enunciate, even if the subject is difficult or painful.

So the main thing I look for in a poem is whether or not I am able to follow the stream of thought, and if the poem stands apart from common language usage.

As such, I found a number of obstacles in your poem - like speed bumps - either in rhythm and pace or in word choice. So what I am about to say may cast me into the darker realms of your displeasure, but such is the cost of dispassionate observation.

1. _I’m afraid of the consequence._
2. _The domino effect of a few bad apples bitten_.

Line 1. makes a rhythmic promise that line 2. does not keep. By that I mean that the rhythm set out in line 1. I'll use a '*-*' symbol as a base line beat and a '*^*' as an upbeat or accent:

1. *--^--^--* is the pattern for line one.
2. *-^---^--^^^-^-* is the pattern for line two.

Such as I read it. Others may read it differently.

As you can see, the poetic symmetry of the first line is mangled in the second line. No matter, I thought, perhaps there is a reason for it. Too early to tell. But as opening lines, it feels awkward. So let's look at the words.

"_I'm afraid of the consequence_." The period informs me that this is the end of the thought.

"_The domino effect of a few bad apples bitten_." Now I'm a bit intrigued and confused simultaneously. Now I feel that line 1 is meant to connect to line 2. I'll break down my thinking.

"_The domino effect_..." can be assumed to mean that a single cause or push affects adjacent things. So - meaning that one thing leads to another, proceeding from a single cause. This puts the first line into perspective - the author fears the eventual outcome of something that was set in motion.

"..._of a few bad apples bitten_." So it is the bitten apples that are the subject of the effect. On first encounter with the words, I am left wondering if the it is the apples that are the point, or the biting of the apples. It must, I thought, be a metaphor. But what metaphor? How does it connect to a consequence that frightens the author? How would apples, metaphorically speaking, create a ripple? Especially when bitten?

At this point I decide that I have no point of reference to understand the meaning, and therefore the poem has already lost me in the first two lines. If it were metaphor, then there would be a recognizable theme - be it a reference to religion, or politics, or a relationship that has spiraled out of control or fallen prey to a series of unfortunate events.

Now, I have gone to this ridiculous degree of detail not to make you uneasy or to bore you to death, but to demonstrate my thought process. And to be honest, the following line (3) honestly doesn't help me at all.

3. _I say in literature every word is cause for chain reaction_.

This seems to me to be a convoluted way of saying that with the written word, one thought leads to another - or that words have consequences (carrying on the thought in the first line perhaps?). I just doesn't feel right to me, and the rhythm has changed again:

3. *-^-^---^-^-^-^-^-*

At this point I lost interest.

Forgive me, my friend, but I am not a fan of this form and style. It may be that my inability to properly parse this poem stems from a fault in my own understanding. Or perhaps it just needs a bit more refinement. Feel free to ignore me.

I'll let myself out.


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## shedpog329 (Dec 13, 2017)

Maybe its more prose than traditional poetry with a format and a traditional rhythm and such.  You're probably right.  Sorry if the context wasn't for you...I'll just tell myself better luck next time


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## Namyh (Dec 13, 2017)

shedpog - Perhaps our greatest asset are our imperfections, great starting points for a species in search of salvation, perfection and self improvement. Makes you think. Thanks shedpod for sharing. Namyh


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## nickpierce (Dec 13, 2017)

Bloggsworth said:


> So - Is it the butterfly effect, or the domino effect? They are not the same; the one the randomisation of consequence; the other, an orderly and linear collapse.



Clear and concise.

I thank you, sir (or madam or miss or Ms. or no particular designation preferred).


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## shedpog329 (Dec 13, 2017)

sir


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## shedpog329 (Dec 13, 2017)

Namyh said:


> shedpog - Perhaps our greatest asset are our imperfections, great starting points for a species in search of salvation, perfection and self improvement. Makes you think. Thanks shedpod for sharing. Namyh




thank you namyh


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## shedpog329 (Dec 13, 2017)

HorseDragon said:


> _[Oh, you are really going to hate me. I'm going to get a bit tedious in my explanation in order to make a point, so I'd best apologize for that straight away. Please remember that I am not an expert in poetry, and that I'm being dispassionate in my explanation.]_
> 
> The thing about poetry is that the author's thoughts|feelings|imagery must resonate with some expectations of the reader. We sometimes accomplish that by employing some agreed upon form or another, whether with or without a rhyme scheme. Of course, there are forms that intentionally buck historical or even modern trends. My expectation is admittedly lyrical - a natural roll off the tongue; something easy to memorize and pleasurable to enunciate, even if the subject is difficult or painful.
> 
> ...




Personally, although not perfectly executed...I do believe the syntactical literature and diction of this piece are debatabley decent....you may disagree to agree.... :angel: But I do suppose it reads rather quickly in the third stanza than ends rather short in the last..Like I said I haven't written anything in a year so this is my first attempt at getting back at it...sorry if I came on too strong...did I mention I was also a college dropout:deadhorse:


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## nickpierce (Dec 15, 2017)

shedpog329 said:


> sir



I now see that when my connection went down a few nights ago my response to this did not post.

My post (#16) was to the comment by Bloggsworth.

Please pardon any misunderstanding I unintentionally precipitated, good sir.


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## shedpog329 (Dec 15, 2017)

nickpierce said:


> I now see that when my connection went down a few nights ago my response to this did not post.
> 
> My post (#16) was to the comment by Bloggsworth.
> 
> Please pardon any misunderstanding I unintentionally precipitated, good sir.



oh...yes im pretty sure Bloggsworth is a sir


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## HorseDragon (Dec 16, 2017)

shedpog329 said:


> Personally, although not perfectly executed...I do believe the syntactical literature and diction of this piece are debatabley decent....you may disagree to agree.... :angel: But I do suppose it reads rather quickly in the third stanza than ends rather short in the last..Like I said I haven't written anything in a year so this is my first attempt at getting back at it...sorry if I came on too strong...did I mention I was also a college dropout:deadhorse:



We're all in this together. I'm no better than anyone else. Nor is my opinion weightier than the next one. I accept that your poem is what it is and that it didn't spontaneously erupt into existence, as it were, but is your honest intention to say something, to express yourself. I would not want to impede or resist that, of course. 

But hey, I'm _just this dude, ya know_, that tends to be inclined to explain my thinking. Like the line from an _The Animals_ song, _Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood_. Words fail, sometimes. I hope expressing what I had to say in my earlier post is helpful, not insulting or dismissive. But, one never knows.

Cheers!


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## clark (Dec 17, 2017)

The commentary is almost (. . .only almost) as interesting as the poem.  Usually, I like to read a poem first, then offer a word or a hundred, THEN read the comments.  This time I read the poem and the comments before I wrote this.  I'm glad I did.  What I see is apples and oranges colliding in a tub intent on making lemonade.  I don't think the ingredients will come together in a satisfactory blend.

The mandate of this particular Group is to work together to bring out each other's POTENTIAL, rather than to offer critiques or espouse poetic theory, traditions, history blah, blah.  With that mandate in mind, it seems important to determine the poet's INTENT, then assess the degree to which the form/content of the poem serve that end.  That approach might keep us closest to the poet, without crossing the no-no line of commenting on the poet personally.

My initial response to the poem--BEFORE reading the poet's 'explanation'--was that of a sadness that society, even our literature,  tends to deny the worth of individuals in its overweening need to assuage its guilt for. . something. . .and trample 'persons' in its group-stampede for salvation.  I was struck by the line, 
". . . in literature every word is cause for chain reaction", which shaped my reading from that point on.  I studied Linguistics, too, including a grad course with Wayne O'Neil, a brilliant fucking truly insane man who studied under Chomsky.  The _danger _of that line from a poet-reader relationship is that I could write 1000 words right now on the philosophical underpinnings of that line, and so could Shed, but its _fullness as metaphor_ is available only to those in a small camp.  So it fails on that ground alone.  Furthermore, the poem builds on that line, so much of what follows will be available only superficially, unless you've studied language theory.  You guys and gals are poets, hence very perceptive about language, and you 'get' as much as is available in the words of the poem, but not the 'all'.

So that's a problem.  The next problem, for me, is that this poem presents a process of linear reasoning--usually the province of the essay or treatise--that's okay, there are lots of excellent poems out there that embrace complex intellectual Arguments, but those poems also AND PRIMARILY embrace emotion.  Feeling.  They move us. They change the way we FEEL towards a particular idea, event.  Usually through image, metaphor, super-charged language, shocking nuances. . .we respond emotionally.  Comprehension of ideas, of philosophical issues, comes later, and on a heightened plane, _through_ the powerful appeal to emotion that is elicited from us.  In this poem, the reverse occurs: somewhat metaphorically, granted, the ideas are presented in the poem, then in the last line appears this glittering jewel: " authority is a chair and I am only a broken heart."  Shit Shep!  Just about knocked me out of my chair! Now I think I can say something vaguely helpful about helping, maybe, with the 'potential' business.  Here goes.....

The fact that you wanted to write this treatise in poetic form, and that you tried to find appropriate metaphors through which to present the terms of the treatise, suggest to me that you have a need for STYLISTIC EXPRESSION, rather than stating the fact, ironing out the syllogisms, and getting on with the bare argument.  And the fact that you wrote that last line at all, tell me there's a poet churning around in there, clawing its way out of the morass of Transformational Grammar and such.

What might have happened if you'd STARTED with that last line spinning in your head?  Whoof!

I can'r resist quoting a poem to illustrate what I mean by a poet writing a poem rich in imagery and appealing to emotion, and complete in its own right, as an aesthetic entity, BUT also clothing a philosophical or political underlay.  Shelley wrote "Ozymandias" in 1818, when Napolean's empire was crumbling and Britain was emerging as the next world power, intent on expansive colonization.  The British aristocracy was arrogant in its confidence of world domination.

I met a traveller from an antique land, 
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone 
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand, 
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown, 
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, 
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read 
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, 
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed; 
And on the pedestal, these words appear: 
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; 
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!" 
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay 
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare 
The lone and level sands stretch far away.” 

Sorry for blathering on at such length, Shed!  You've got all the right instincts, I say.  I enjoyed this poem; for reasons already stated, I think you have the potential to soar.  God, I love that last line!


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## shedpog329 (Dec 17, 2017)

clark said:


> The commentary is almost (. . .only almost) as interesting as the poem.  Usually, I like to read a poem first, then offer a word or a hundred, THEN read the comments.  This time I read the poem and the comments before I wrote this.  I'm glad I did.  What I see is apples and oranges colliding in a tub intent on making lemonade.  I don't think the ingredients will come together in a satisfactory blend.
> 
> The mandate of this particular Group is to work together to bring out each other's POTENTIAL, rather than to offer critiques or espouse poetic theory, traditions, history blah, blah.  With that mandate in mind, it seems important to determine the poet's INTENT, then assess the degree to which the form/content of the poem serve that end.  That approach might keep us closest to the poet, without crossing the no-no line of commenting on the poet personally.
> 
> ...





Hello Clark...Please! Critique my work more often! You sound exactly like my old teachers and professors.  Ironically you bring up the term "syllogism" which reminds me of one of of the first works I studied in college.  Although unfortunately, I cannot remember the name of the literature studied, I do remember before we even started reading the story, poem, play-write, whatever it happened to be, I recall the professor instructing us to read the first (paragraph...maybe stanza) than the last.  The whole class was stunned to learn that the two made an almost, if not exactly, rational and coherent logical formation. It had totally flipped my entire perspective of literature, opening up a whole new world for me in writing, not just in poetry but in my essays and short stories as well (Hard work). 

You say "What might have happened if you'd STARTED with that last line spinning in your head? Whoof!"  which brings me to a side note that I also used this technique back in high school many years ago while drawing, where my teacher had taught us to start "upside down and from the bottom".  My drawings did improve for all you artists out there who wanna give this a go:welcome:. 

As for this piece I'll bring it back to the drawing board for sure Clark and work through some of the problems you pointed out to the best of my abilities.  I'd like to think that this poem does tackle these issues but I think that may be my ego getting in the way evoked in the form of flattery that I am taut to in your response.  I'll try to put differences aside.

Thanks again for the thoughtful and encouraging response!


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