# Writing Frustrations (1 Viewer)



## Parabola (Nov 10, 2022)

So just checked and didn't see a thread for writing frustrations. Decided to start one. Wrote three full-length projects from March-October, now my current horror novella (which is separate from those projects) is coming in fits and starts, since apparently my brain keeps a word cap at about 240,000 words before it curls up into a ball of manlet beta male fears. Anyway, summing up then, my current frustration is motivation based. Maybe I just need more caffeine. 

What about you? Put your writerly frustrations here. Could be anything.


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## Matchu (Nov 10, 2022)

Readers not trying hard enough.  Especially with early draft stuff, low quality of readers, global.


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## Ladyserpentine (Nov 10, 2022)

A frustration thread? Yes, I can certainly get behind that.
Well for starters, I was sick for the majority of last month, and thus not much in the mood for writing. This caused me to loose my footing in my WIP and now I am finding it most difficult to jump back in. When I do, I trudge through a couple of uninspired sentences at most before getting frustrated and moving onto another project. It could be an issue that I am writing through a "boring part" of the story which is needed to set up a series of events that lead to the inciting incident but.... it is, in a word, _frustrating._


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## Matchu (Nov 10, 2022)

I do that singing through my nose thing until I reach the section of rubble.  Then I repair the sentence, go back 10,000 pages and I start again.  It is the best hobby.  The autopsy on my nose will reveal staggering nasal health etc…


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## M J Tennant 2022 (Nov 10, 2022)

My writing frustrations at the moment are always about continuity between books.  The secondary characters in my first book become main characters in the second and the main characters in the first book become secondary characters in the second book (and there is an overlap but from different perspectives - the books are written in first person, past tense - I also get my hands slapped for shifting from past to present tense BAH!).  OMG I am confusing myself just typing this!  Don't get me started on book three.  My editor is picking me up on stuff all the time at the minute (which is of course what I pay her for - she's a star).

Continuity is a tough one isn't it.  Especially when I finished the first book during lockdown!  Although saying that, I have read it that many times that I could probably recite it!

So my answer is, continuity, every time.

M J x


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## Parabola (Nov 10, 2022)

500 but wanted to reach 1k today. "Ain't" gonna happen.


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## Parabola (Nov 11, 2022)

Matchu said:


> Readers not trying hard enough.  Especially with early draft stuff, low quality of readers, global.



"Beta readers" and you have to have them in triplicate, fill out the right forms.


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## Parabola (Nov 11, 2022)

Which leads me to another dilemma lol. Like, starting a beta reading request in appropriate forum would be good, but then I'd be like "PM me if interested, but I reserve the right to ignore said PM if I don't respect your opinion." I get the lack of diplomacy from my parents.


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## Parabola (Nov 12, 2022)

Yesterday wasn't a good day for a number of reasons. I don't have the energy to write (fiction, obviously), right now. Going over old stuff.


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## Parabola (Nov 12, 2022)

Welcome to Parabola's demented circus of writing frustration, where goats are joined at the beard (that's like a handshake for demons), and three-trunked elephants are apathetic to your ant-like human suffering.


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## Parabola (Nov 15, 2022)

I haven't written a (fiction) word in days and have a stubble + drinking problem. Productivity wise, I'm a has been of a few months ago. People love has beens, right? The facial hair and bourbon give off a certain mystique.


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## Matchu (Nov 15, 2022)

On '*publication day*' I go see my blog.

Hi blog.  Not now beautiful blog we need to talk.  I have been published yet again international, it is amazing.

See sire, says blog, see viewers to yon blog?  Your post entitled furtive images of rear passage spins in a global triumph.

My god yes, I remember that day when she purchased me the 'telephoning mobile telephoning.'  I sat upon telephoning, mobile and now,  and now my arse-art [protesteth] spins around our universe, at last, a WOW

Oh actually replies blog, the twenty-three views to yon blog was your son, your mother and that insane woman at work, the really unappealing woman, she loves you so much.

That's very nice.  I love her too.  So my usual crew?  Good to see them all.  If you would pass on regards, my proxy.  Love you, night.


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## Pamelyn Casto (Nov 15, 2022)

My main frustration (at the moment) is never having enough time to send my work to markets as often as I'd like. Each set of guidelines is different (for poetry, prose poetry, essays, short stories, flash fiction) so that's time-consuming to understand the various guidelines and their specific dos and don'ts. So many I find will also have a response time of six months or even longer. I'm too impatient to wait that long. Some accept simultaneous submissions, and some will not. Some accept only one piece, some will accept three, some five, and it's time-consuming to sort it all just to send a few pieces for consideration. It also irritates me to have to search so long with some markets to find out if they pay or not. Usually, if they don't pay, this info is kept until the last of the lengthy guidelines.

There are more frustrations but these are the main ones bugging me today. There's an online group that does marketing for writers but I can't afford their services, so I I struggle or don't get the time to do all this reading and so don't send work out. I imagine this is one reason there are so many posthumously famous writers.:-D


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## Matchu (Nov 15, 2022)

It gets worse when you discover some sense of the inner workings of ‘the group’ you have been trying to bust into…like a sense of bafflement…ehmm…that’s five undergraduates and a framed photograph of the rather humdrum short  story writer from 1967, although his editor was quite  nice.


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## Explosia (Nov 15, 2022)

I'm trying to speed-edit the chapters in my horror novella so that I can finish this thing up ("finish" lol), and I got through MOST of tonight's chapter, but I still have like.......... 600 more words in it to go. But like...... I'm so tired...... no more thoughts in brain......... I cannot write things that sound good or even coherent at this point......... but I'm so close to the end of this chapter........ I'm just gonna have to finish it tomorrow night.   NOoooooooooooooo............


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## Parabola (Nov 16, 2022)

Not sure how quickly to go through certain scenes/sections. This is sort of capped at 35k at most, so I'm trying to be economical with certain things. Billy's journey through the country at night took up more pages than I wanted. That leaves a little less room for other stuff, like the maine/zombie dream sequence and the final act that mostly takes place during winter. My concept of the story is almost accordion like atm.


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## VRanger (Nov 17, 2022)

If you're writing 240K word manuscripts, that's EXTREMELY impressive, but almost certainly too long. Break that up into a trilogy and add 60K for the latest entry in the series.


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

VRanger said:


> If you're writing 240K word manuscripts, that's EXTREMELY impressive, but almost certainly too long. Break that up into a trilogy and add 60K for the latest entry in the series.



Guess I wasn't clear in OP. I did break that up into separate books. That was just an overall word count from the timespan I mentioned.


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## KeganThompson (Nov 17, 2022)

I can't write a long, coherent story/ or even draft to save my life.
Also
No matter how hard I try to be consistent with my writing habits, my plans tend to crash and burn


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

VRanger said:


> If you're writing 240K word manuscripts, that's EXTREMELY impressive, but almost certainly too long. Break that up into a trilogy and add 60K for the latest entry in the series.



Before I came here, I knew nothing about 'word count' other than it was some option in a tab on iPages, Open Office, and Google Document. Figured it was something for students when they were writing term papers ad crap and nothing I needed to know or concern myself with. Phuck you very much.
And with that in mind, when I started to write my skeletons/roughs, I just wrote.
And wrote.
And wrote.
And then I wrote some more.
And when I thought I was done with one, I simply started to write the next one.
And I wrote.
And I wrote.
Continued to write.
Yep, wrote some more.
I don't care that I'm mixing tenses here, I still wrotededededed

You get the picture....

I'm not sure, but I may have mentioned once or twice that I really really really have no idea what I'm doing. I know, big shocker to reveal that, right?

So I quickly learned about 'word count' here and how it pertains to what I'm trying to do.

<big cheesy embarrassed grin> Boy, did/do I feel stupid.   

The original skeleton for "Book I: God Bless Small Town, USA"' came out to 73k. I got lucky there.
The original skeleton for "Book II Free Pizza Every Monday Night In Paradise" was around 80k. Meh.
The original skeleton for   "Book III: Burgers, Sex, and Broadcasting" was 160k.  That is now both 'Burgers, Sex..' and "Book IV: Some Caffeine And A Hurricane"
The original skeleton for "Book IV: It Never Goes As Planned" was 150k. It's now "Book V: It Never Goes As Planned" and "Book VI: The World's Greatest Ex-Boyfriend" (and it gives me some wiggle room)
The original skeleton "Book VI: The Making Of Pat Mediocre" was nearly 260k(!!!). It is now "Book VII: The Making Of Pat Mediocre", "Book VIII: Damn, What A Mess", and the beginning of "Book IX: The Dark Side Of Hope"

By the way. Before I joined here, I still thought I had a 14 - 15 book series in my head. The ones mentioned above are still not to the HALFWAY mark of the series that I have planned. 


I have no idea what I'm doing.....


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

KeganThompson said:


> I can't write a long, coherent story/ or even draft to save my life.
> Also
> No hard I try to be consistent with my writing habits, my plans tend to crash and burn



As mentioned in OP, my issue tends to be motivation centered.  A story will come to me most fluidly when I'm not thinking about it. So it has always been (pronounced "bean").


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## KeganThompson (Nov 17, 2022)

Did I mention I have a talent for overthinking everything and being constantly  overwhelmed? Lol


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

KeganThompson said:


> Did I mention I have a talent for overthinking everything and being constantly  overwhelmed? Lol



Over thinking is natural to a lot of us, amigo.


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

I'm not writing Leo in the best of conditions, although I'm taking advantage of this phase since once that's over in a year or so, I don't think I'll do much novel/story stuff. Might slide back into poetry and call it a day.


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## Pamelyn Casto (Nov 17, 2022)

KeganThompson said:


> I can't write a long, coherent story/ or even draft to save my life.
> Also
> No matter how hard I try to be consistent with my writing habits, my plans tend to crash and burn



@KeganThompson, maybe you are meant to write shorter fiction (short stories, flash fiction). Or maybe even poetry. These types of writing aren't easy but they're shorter. And they can be quite challenging to write. They can also result in a book. Lots of writers are accepting the flash fiction novel challenge where all the pieces in the novel are stand-alone short pieces but they're all related to the overall story being told. Two famous examples are Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities and Alan Lightman's Einstein's Dreams. (I found a trailer for Einstein's Dreams https://archive.org/details/einsteinsdreams00ligh/page/n195/mode/2up where you can take a peek). If you're serious about becoming a writer, you'll keep at it and will explore various paths. Best of luck to you!


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

Pamelyn Casto said:


> @KeganThompson, maybe you are meant to write shorter fiction (short stories, flash fiction). Or maybe even poetry. These types of writing aren't easy but they're shorter. And they can be quite challenging to write. They can also result in a book. Lots of writers are accepting the flash fiction novel challenge where all the pieces in the novel are stand-alone short pieces but they're all related to the overall story being told. Two famous examples are Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities and Alan Lightman's Einstein's Dreams. (I found a trailer for Einstein's Dreams https://archive.org/details/einsteinsdreams00ligh/page/n195/mode/2up where you can take a peek). If you're serious about becoming a writer, you'll keep at it and will explore various paths. Best of luck to you!



I mentioned something a while back about Pauline Gedge, and in one interview she talked about how historical fiction helped sidestep that weakness since the plot was mostly written out for her (save certain ambiguities). Also, sometimes you just have to wait for that right story to strike. Some use visual aids/plot summaries etc.


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## KeganThompson (Nov 17, 2022)

Pamelyn Casto said:


> @KeganThompson, maybe you are meant to write shorter fiction (short stories, flash fiction). Or maybe even poetry.



Honestly, I hope not. I have nothing against short fiction, I like writing it but my short stories are typically a snippet or part of a bigger idea. Its easier to write part of a story/idea than to commit to a novel. I've been trying to improve my craft, story structure is what I find the most intimidating about novel, especially as a pantser.


Pamelyn Casto said:


> These types of writing aren't easy but they're shorter. And they can be quite challenging to write. They can also result in a book. Lots of writers are accepting the flash fiction novel challenge where all the pieces in the novel are stand-alone short pieces but they're all related to the overall story being told. Two famous examples are Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities and Alan Lightman's Einstein's Dreams. (I found a trailer for Einstein's Dreams https://archive.org/details/einsteinsdreams00ligh/page/n195/mode/2up where you can take a peek). If you're serious about becoming a writer, you'll keep at it and will explore various paths. Best of luck to you!


Thank you. I hope that one day I will 'accidently ' write novel or novella just by building ideas off eachother bit by bit. Lol i did click on the link a few times but for some reason it's having trouble directing me to the site :/


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## Pamelyn Casto (Nov 17, 2022)

Parabola said:


> I mentioned something a while back about Pauline Gedge, and in one interview she talked about how historical fiction helped sidestep that weakness since the plot was mostly written out for her (save certain ambiguities). Also, sometimes you just have to wait for that right story to strike. Some use visual aids/plot summaries etc.



I've never thought about that. The historical accounts do set things up for a novel writer. I have two in-progress historical novels and only work on them now and then. I think maybe it's time I give them a little more attention.  Yes, the plot's already there.  So I'm closer to turning out a finished product than I thought. Thanks for posting Pauline Gedge's words.


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

Pamelyn Casto said:


> I've never thought about that. The historical accounts do set things up for a novel writer. I have two in-progress historical novels and only work on them now and then. I think maybe it's time I give them a little more attention.  Yes, the plot's already there.  So I'm closer to turning out a finished product than I thought. Thanks for posting Pauline Gedge's words.



Yeah the only things she had to worry about were her relative strengths anyway, like description/characters. And I think her ex-husband handled most of the research. Also even though some of her books dealt with more or less no-name figures who gave her a bit more wiggle room, they eventually got swept up in broader historical narratives. One that comes to mind is "Lady of the Reeds" and that featured a girl from a backwater village becoming a concubine in the court of Ramses III, the plot eventually linking up with the Harem Conspiracy, an actual plot that took place. My tastes might've changed since the first time I read it, but I remember being quite compelled by the main character, Thu, a very intelligent woman trying to shrug off her peasant upbringing and make something of herself.


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

Let's see, from March-October, I completed first drafts of Murder Console, books 1 & 2, an entirely unrelated novel entitled "The Loser's Labyrinth" and that first draft I completed in less than two weeks, a weird, arbitrary goal I set for myself for some reason. Also started Leo and book three of my trilogy toward the last month or so of that stretch. Zooming out, that's a very high level of productivity for me. Leo is the current project now, and it's mostly plotted out, and I'm sufficiently inspired when I put fingers to keyboard, but all of those projects kinda wore me out tbh. As a result, some days I can fit in 1k, other days it's a trickle.


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## JBF (Nov 17, 2022)

I don't have time to write
When I find time, I'm too burned to do anything
I'm behind on beta read promises and general crits
I'm pretty sure most of what I write is irredeemable garbage

...and today has just kind of sucked in general.


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## KatPC (Nov 17, 2022)

@JBF I don't agree with the last part and I'm pretty sure it was mentioned to me that raccoons rummage through garbage ... you really shouldn't be raiding my bins so often ... there's lots of rubbish!

Chin up sir!


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

JBF said:


> I don't have time to write
> When I find time, I'm too burned to do anything
> I'm behind on beta read promises and general crits
> I'm pretty sure most of what I write is irredeemable garbage
> ...



HEY!!!!! I’m the irredeemable garbage writer in this forum. Find your own failure!

On a serious note, take a break. Recharge. The holidays are a bad time of the year. Heal thyself.


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## JBF (Nov 17, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> HEY!!!!! I’m the irredeemable garbage writer in this forum. Find your own failure!
> 
> On a serious note, take a break. Recharge. The holidays are a bad time of the year. Heal thyself.



No breaks, unfortunately.  Wore myself out last weekend on the first vacation I've had since taking this job, got the bad news about Dallas in the middle of that, came back to an absolute nightmare at the office, and today my schedule switches from running noon-midnight back to overnights.  We're shorthanded, so I'm going it alone, and we expect no backup until the new people clear training, probably after the first of the year.  Meantime, I'm not even considered licensed for the work but we're pinched enough it doesn't make any difference.

There are only two of us willing to work nights, and the other one has a habit of calling out on short notice.  Thanks to changing regional rules I hit a brick wall in training two months ago, which is regrettably tied to pay raises...so I'm stuck doing the work of two fully-licensed county employees for trainee wages. 

I also get to work Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, and Christmas Day, and I wouldn't mind that so much were it not for the epic hurricane of complication and downstream effect that seems to follow working here.

I fear I may have to relinquish my garbage crown for a while.


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## Explosia (Nov 17, 2022)

Parabola said:


> I mentioned something a while back about Pauline Gedge, and in one interview she talked about how historical fiction helped sidestep that weakness since the plot was mostly written out for her (save certain ambiguities). Also, sometimes you just have to wait for that right story to strike. Some use visual aids/plot summaries etc.


Also, hell, this is exactly what fanfiction does, too! When people write fanfiction, they already have a setting and characters at the ready, so they're able to focus more on a plot, and maybe practicing developing deeper characterization. 

I once sat down and started hammering out a Silent Hill fanfiction, and it flowed out so quick and smooth, it's like I already had the whole thing planned from the start. But it was just that I already had locations to send my characters to, and it all just worked. Fanfiction is great practice in that regard. 


In other news, update: I did NOT get to the next chapter yesternight... I only barely trudged through those last 600 words... so now uh... I guess I'm technically behind; anyway, time for the next chapter's edit. And let's see if I can get two chapter edits done toniiiiiiight....


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

Explosia said:


> Also, hell, this is exactly what fanfiction does, too! When people write fanfiction, they already have a setting and characters at the ready, so they're able to focus more on a plot, and maybe practicing developing deeper characterization.
> 
> I once sat down and started hammering out a Silent Hill fanfiction, and it flowed out so quick and smooth, it's like I already had the whole thing planned from the start. But it was just that I already had locations to send my characters to, and it all just worked. Fanfiction is great practice in that regard.
> 
> ...



Now I want to write some Silent Hill fanfic just for fun even though I've only watched part of a playthrough on youtube. The second one has a very inspiring intro imo.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

I've always thought of Fan Fic to be a constraint. You can write, but only within a set of parameters. Just feels like a speed control on creativity and freedom of thought and ideas. I look at fandom writers like I do cover bands. 

But that's just me.


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

Mapping out tomorrow morning. Book 3 would feel like putting on a comfortable glove, and there's nothing like the steady love of good hand wear in word form. So there's that. I also don't want to lose the associations I've built up with the characters over the last two books.

Leo is more recent and thus fresher. Smaller word count too. I want to finish it while the shadows are still jumping on the primitive cave wall that is my mind.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

JBF said:


> No breaks, unfortunately.  Wore myself out last weekend on the first vacation I've had since taking this job, got the bad news about Dallas in the middle of that, came back to an absolute nightmare at the office, and today my schedule switches from running noon-midnight back to overnights.  We're shorthanded, so I'm going it alone, and we expect no backup until the new people clear training, probably after the first of the year.  Meantime, I'm not even considered licensed for the work but we're pinched enough it doesn't make any difference.
> 
> There are only two of us willing to work nights, and the other one has a habit of calling out on short notice.  Thanks to changing regional rules I hit a brick wall in training two months ago, which is regrettably tied to pay raises...so I'm stuck doing the work of two fully-licensed county employees for trainee wages.
> 
> ...



I know I'm one of those waiting for critique. @JBF  don't worry about getting to mine, amigo. Take care of yourself first.  No bad juju.  Night Shift Dwelling Raccoon Boy, heal thyself.  Forklift Driver's orders.


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## Parabola (Nov 17, 2022)

I get too distracted by internet forums when I've set a writing time for myself. I have like three (including this one) that I visit regularly, so...no forum fun time until the 1k is finished.


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## JBF (Nov 17, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> I know I'm one of those waiting for critique. @JBF  don't worry about getting to mine, amigo. Take care of yourself first.  No bad juju.  Night Shift Dwelling Raccoon Boy, heal thyself.  Forklift Driver's orders.



Like hell.  I’m gonna crit it if it kills us all.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

JBF said:


> Like hell.  I’m gonna crit it if it kills us all.



Now you’re talking!  BANZIA!!!!!!!!!


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## Explosia (Nov 17, 2022)

Parabola said:


> Now I want to write some Silent Hill fanfic just for fun even though I've only watched part of a playthrough on youtube. The second one has a very inspiring intro imo.



It was fun as heck. I admit, I didn't finish it, but I really liked digging into the stressful scenario of scavenging for canned food in a ghost town that couldn't be escaped. And I got to give one character an existential crisis. I think I really always liked those stories where people are surviving off of the bare threads of resources they have to scrounge up themselves. Maybe someday I oughta work that into my own original story.



That Guy Named Aaron said:


> I've always thought of Fan Fic to be a constraint. You can write, but only within a set of parameters. Just feels like a speed control on creativity and freedom of thought and ideas. I look at fandom writers like I do cover bands.



Once you learn about the concept of "AUs" (Alternate Universes), not at all, man, the sky's the limit.   What fanfiction does is give you assets to work with, and then you really can do just about whatever you want with them. Back in my high school days, I remember the best fanfic I'd ever read. It included a major battle that featured the Sailor Moon scouts versus the Spice Girls. It was amazing.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 17, 2022)

Explosia said:


> Back in my high school days, I remember the best fanfic I'd ever read. It included a major battle that featured the Sailor Moon scouts versus the Spice Girls. It was amazing.



I’ll take your word at it, thanks.


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## KatPC (Nov 18, 2022)

JBF said:


> No breaks, unfortunately.  Wore myself out last weekend on the first vacation I've had since taking this job, got the bad news about Dallas in the middle of that, came back to an absolute nightmare at the office, and today my schedule switches from running noon-midnight back to overnights.  We're shorthanded, so I'm going it alone, and we expect no backup until the new people clear training, probably after the first of the year.  Meantime, I'm not even considered licensed for the work but we're pinched enough it doesn't make any difference.
> 
> There are only two of us willing to work nights, and the other one has a habit of calling out on short notice.  Thanks to changing regional rules I hit a brick wall in training two months ago, which is regrettably tied to pay raises...so I'm stuck doing the work of two fully-licensed county employees for trainee wages.
> 
> ...



There is that saying (which I'm sure you know well) 'What doesn't kills us, makes us stronger,' doing a two man job is not easy but it is true that when you look back it's these experiences that makes us better. I know my choice of words in my writing are not always the best but better is the correct choice ... not stronger.

In any case it is I'll pick up your crown, it didn't look good on you, I'll just store it away in a dark corner and when I get down I'll cry about it and write a really depressing story about it. Maybe I'll call it the King of Rubbish? Not bad hey?

Also (and @That Guy Named Aaron ) if you go around reviewing AC's story can I have a read? I'm really intrigued at how others give better feedback.


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## Parabola (Nov 18, 2022)

Explosia said:


> It was fun as heck. I admit, I didn't finish it, but I really liked digging into the stressful scenario of scavenging for canned food in a ghost town that couldn't be escaped. *And I got to give one character an existential crisis*. I think I really always liked those stories where people are surviving off of the bare threads of resources they have to scrounge up themselves. Maybe someday I oughta work that into my own original story.



Lmao at bold. It's like they're your sims and you can make 'em crazy just for the hell of it. But yeah, some interesting stuff can come out of the fanfic process. It's just an exercise in following through with character and world-building logics, or in your example, survival logic.

Not to mention it can take your mind off of your current projects and act as idea fuel.


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## Parabola (Nov 18, 2022)

Getting to the point in Leo where I've conceived of a couple of ways to go with the story, similar enough events wise but the possibilities for the fine details are nagging at me. One being, breaking up the semi-dream sequence (elements of it are real) that finds Billy and his best _human _friend inside a zombie horror movie. Well his dog too now that I'm thinking about it. The other would mean they'd endure it until it's over. Final option would be falling into the end action sequence that takes place in the cemetery. The common thread among all of them being Billy having to rely on Kevin and Leo to help him survive, and them him.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 18, 2022)

KatPC said:


> Also (and @That Guy Named Aaron ) if you go around reviewing AC's story can I have a read? I'm really intrigued at how others give better feedback.



Why? “You fucking idiot” seems to be working well on me.  I get up out of the fetal position, and rewrite the sentence. You scream and make me cry again and I crawl back into the corner. Good times!

(IT’S A JOKE!)


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## Parabola (Nov 18, 2022)

I'm always caught between Leo, MC3 and the Hollywood project. It'll probably be ages until I finish all three. Though I'm trying my best to focus on Leo. On top of the other projects I mentioned during that March-October period, it's occurring to me I actually started and abandoned another one called "Please Cleanse My Soul." Let that one go because it had a depressing take on the afterlife, also I was also running out of steam at that point. 5k into that one, and my motivation bit the dust. Probably for the best since I have enough on my plate lol.


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## Envy123 (Nov 18, 2022)

I'm going back to the more straightforward exposition seen in the Brazilian telenovelas that I watch, as readers seem to prefer the straightforward approach to being too subtle. An example, using a Brazilian telenovela I watch:



> "Why do you want to sell the house?" Leonor asked.





> "It's too much trouble letting it out. It'd be easier to get whatever money I can get from the sale and put that towards my retirement," Thompson replied.



A rough one, but yeah, characters tend to vent and express everything to people who they trust. Maybe I should come back to that.


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## JBF (Nov 18, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Why? “You fucking idiot” seems to be working well on me.  I get up out of the fetal position, and rewrite the sentence. You scream and make me cry again and I crawl back into the corner. Good times!
> 
> (IT’S A JOKE!)



Morale not improving.  

Beatings to continue.


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## KatPC (Nov 18, 2022)

JBF said:


> Morale not improving.
> 
> Beatings to continue.


Think he is on about me here LOL


That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Why? “You fucking idiot” seems to be working well on me.  I get up out of the fetal position, and rewrite the sentence. You scream and make me cry again and I crawl back into the corner. Good times!
> 
> (IT’S A JOKE!)


Is this in a British accent? Plus you sent me your long list of books you have planned so the real question is can you take more of the vulgar language or after which book are you gonna boot me aside?


----------



## EternalGreen (Nov 18, 2022)

What's frustrating is how, during some months, I write long, complex sentences that lazy readers cannot follow; and during other months, I write overly compact and concise sentences that are unpleasant to read and have neither elegance nor flow. When a sentence develops in my brain, I cut unnecessary words and clauses before writing it. Why say with more words what could be said with fewer? This mindset weighed me down and caused me to produce choppy and compressed prose.

On the bright side, with practice, I am learning to string along lots of information into long sentences that flow well, but it's not easy.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 18, 2022)

KatPC said:


> Think he is on about me here LOL
> 
> Is this in a British accent? Plus you sent me your long list of books you have planned so the real question is can you take more of the vulgar language or after which book are you gonna boot me aside?



OK, correction. “You bloody idiot!”


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 18, 2022)

KatPC said:


> Think he is on about me here LOL
> 
> Is this in a British accent? Plus you sent me your long list of books you have planned so the real question is can you take more of the vulgar language or after which book are you gonna boot me aside?



If I’ve gotta suffer, so do you.


----------



## KatPC (Nov 18, 2022)

Don't think that sounds anything like me, nor have I used those words, but as they say AC ...

NO PAIN, NO GAIN


----------



## Parabola (Nov 19, 2022)

Same old problem. I'm strolling through my idea graveyard, wondering which grave to clean.


----------



## Parabola (Nov 19, 2022)

Maybe Leo runs away, and Billy dies out in the woods looking for him. No happy ending, folks.


----------



## Parabola (Nov 20, 2022)

Charming lives ftw.


----------



## indianroads (Nov 20, 2022)

Parabola said:


> Charming lives ftw.


In my world, FTW = either Forever Two Wheels, or F**k The World.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 20, 2022)

Not familiar with the _Forever Two Wheels,_ but I do know Phuck The World and For The Win.


----------



## indianroads (Nov 20, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Not familiar with the _Forever Two Wheels,_ but I do know Phuck The World and For The Win.


Forever Two Wheels is what we say when some RUB asks what the FTW patch on our cut stands for.


----------



## JBF (Nov 21, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Forever Two Wheels is what we say when some RUB asks what the FTW patch on our cut stands for.



RUBs...it had to be RUBs...


----------



## Parabola (Nov 21, 2022)

I woke up at 3:30am, but I probably won't write fiction. Conspiracy theories maybe but not "fiction."


----------



## Joker (Nov 21, 2022)

Parabola said:


> I woke up at 3:30am, but I probably won't write fiction. Conspiracy theories maybe but not "fiction."



Why yes, I agree that George W Bush shot JFK.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> Why yes, I agree that George W Bush shot JFK.



Bah. You believe GWB was real?


----------



## Envy123 (Nov 21, 2022)

I'm going to act out my story like it's a Brazilian telenovela, as the scenes that were based on my acting were very positively received.

Sure, it can be really over-the-top but it does build character and the world a lot more, it seems.


----------



## Joker (Nov 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Bah. You believe GWB was real?



Yes, just like the white half of Obama.


----------



## JBF (Nov 21, 2022)

But if GWB was shooting JFK…who shot JR?


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> Yes, just like the white half of Obama.



Don't get me started on the Drone Strike Twins...  Both are both criminals AND war criminals as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 21, 2022)

JBF said:


> But if GWB was shooting JFK…who shot JR?



The Hanson Brothers.  DUH!!!!!


----------



## Joker (Nov 21, 2022)

JBF said:


> But if GWB was shooting JFK…who shot JR?



Me.

Apologies in advance if I get this thread shut down the mods and/or the FBI.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> Me.
> 
> Apologies in advance if I get this thread shut down the mods and/or the FBI.



No, The FBI is too busy watching my Celebrity Dead Pool Facebook group.
Trust me


----------



## Joker (Nov 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> No, The FBI is too busy watching my Celebrity Dead Pool Facebook group.
> Trust me



You son of a bitch, you killed Kevin Conroy, didn't you!


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> You son of a bitch, you killed Kevin Conroy, didn't you!



I wanna lawyer....


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> You son of a bitch, you killed Kevin Conroy, didn't you!



By the way, nobody had him on their lists.


----------



## JBF (Nov 21, 2022)

Joker said:


> Me.
> 
> Apologies in advance if I get this thread shut down the mods and/or the FBI.



Nah.  I'm here, and FBI is avoiding me these days.  Something about inadvertently radicalizing my assigned agents through memes and shitposting.  

I think it's mostly the EPA tracking me now.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 21, 2022)

JBF said:


> Nah.  I'm here, and FBI is avoiding me these days.  Something about inadvertently radicalizing my assigned agents through memes and shitposting.
> 
> I think it's mostly the EPA tracking me now.



Did you ever know that you’re my hero?
You’re everything I hoped to be.
I can fly higher than a forklift
For you are the global warming beneath my wings.


----------



## JBF (Nov 21, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Did you ever know that you’re my hero?
> You’re everything I hoped to be.
> I can fly higher than a forklift
> For you are the global warming beneath my wings.



I've never seen a forklift fly.  

Now I want to.


----------



## Parabola (Nov 24, 2022)

So I remembered yet another unfinished project from the March-October period, an alternate version of MC1. I'm not sure why I did it except that I seem to enjoy "alternate versions of things" in general. Couple points.

1) Caleb's character was more sympathy inspiring than Ethan. Some of the more reflective passages in MC1 original version seemed to fit his character better, although Ethan doesn't need to be a complete jackass either. 

2) I liked the design and the name of the console better in the alternate version. It has that "back of the box" feel I enjoyed from the 90s. 

3) misc stuff: Caleb's reasons for using the console seem a bit more innocent, and his friendship with Eugene doesn't start out as antagonistic. Part of me thinks I should combine elements of original and alternate version, splicing as I see fit. Caleb's home life is also more fleshed out, with his mom having an actual personality. It's not a positive one, but it's there.

4) Not sure when I'll get to any of it.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 24, 2022)

Real life workplace extended soap opera drama has me wanting to create yet another new character for later in the series. However, I'm going to have to instead add these characteristics into already planned characters and make them even more likeable (note: sarcasm). I'm sure there's a fine line between making characters annoying without being villains and just loathed as villains. I might be playing hopscotch on said line.


----------



## Parabola (Nov 24, 2022)

Caleb vs Ethan, the battle continues. I guess I could write a short story where they duke it out to see who the protagonist will be. The winner "absorbs" the loser.


----------



## Nobelia (Nov 30, 2022)

My current frustration as a writer, is lack of consistency and good faith in my abilities. It can be a weary thing to constantly ride the waves of self-doubt, perfectionism, and struggling to make everything I've learned about writing thus far, click. All the while, I cling to the hope that it gets better. And I know it gets better. Just. The hard days are still challenging, and occasionally I fear that I'd end up giving up on writing all together.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 30, 2022)

Nobelia said:


> My current frustration as a writer, is lack of consistency and good faith in my abilities. It can be a weary thing to constantly ride the waves of self-doubt, perfectionism, and struggling to make everything I've learned about writing thus far, click. All the while, I cling to the hope that it gets better. And I know it gets better. Just. The hard days are still challenging, and occasionally I fear that I'd end up giving up on writing all together.



We all have bouts of self-doubts in our writing, trust me. 


A.C.


----------



## Nobelia (Nov 30, 2022)

Parabola said:


> I mentioned something a while back about Pauline Gedge, and in one interview she talked about how historical fiction helped sidestep that weakness since the plot was mostly written out for her (save certain ambiguities). Also, sometimes you just have to wait for that right story to strike. Some use visual aids/plot summaries etc.



That makes a lot of sense. This may be why, despite my love for the epic to high fantasy genre as a reader - I've mostly leaned towards low fantasy and magical realism as a writer. One day I'd like to write my own high fantasy story, but for now I enjoy that with low fantasy, I can use the real world, and add the fantastical twists without having to create entire worlds from the ground up.


----------



## Nobelia (Nov 30, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> We all have bouts of self-doubts in our writing, trust me.
> 
> 
> A.C.



Thanks A.C., very true indeed. I'm holding on for the day where I'm doubting if I've written enough stories, and not whether or not I can actually complete a novel draft.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Nov 30, 2022)

Current frustration in my writing:
_College alumni who donate money to their alma mater are known as what?_

Google and my own grey-matter have both let me down.


A.C.


----------



## KatPC (Nov 30, 2022)

Nobelia said:


> My current frustration as a writer, is lack of consistency and good faith in my abilities. It can be a weary thing to constantly ride the waves of self-doubt, perfectionism, and struggling to make everything I've learned about writing thus far, click. All the while, I cling to the hope that it gets better. And I know it gets better. Just. The hard days are still challenging, and occasionally I fear that I'd end up giving up on writing all together.


It is a hard slog, one I have yet to conquer, but take note of what you have wrote. I will highlight:

consistency
... make everything I've learned
click
the hard days are still challenging
I fear

It is very brave to say all these things but also the answers you have to solve. If I have learnt anything from this wonderful forum, it is that (even the best of here and everywhere) we must persevere. Consistency can be obtained through discipline and carrying on because by doing so you apply everything you have learned. 

None of us have easy days and to recognise them is also very important, it tells us to battle on because fear always lurks around the corner.

In the Forum there is a lovely 'share your successes' and I go there daily to check on others and their progress. For me seeing their numbers makes me realise how strong they are and what I need to do to get better. I don't compare, others are better than me, yet under this miasma of self doubt and having no clue if my ideas and 'bigger picture' will actually ever work there is still that voice who does believe I can write great stories to share with others. I may never achieve this because learning the craft, walking this journey is tough, but because it is tough I know I am learning and that is another step closer.

Have faith, head down and work hard. You have a Forum of great people who offer invaluable advice ... a lot of share your own worries so grab your sword and carry on, then post in the 'success' thread and inspire more others to battle on.


----------



## indianroads (Nov 30, 2022)

Writing, like any act of creation, exceptionally difficult. We have to force our story out of our body, squeezing it out through our fingertips onto the page. It’s a painful ordeal… and yet… oddly we are compelled to do it, which makes no sense.

Maybe we’re all insane. I could ride my motorcycle somewhere fun and beautiful, train harder in martial arts, hike, read, watch television, any number of things that are pleasurable… and yet I choose to write… what the hell is wrong with me?

I have no answers for anyone here, only sympathy and understanding.


----------



## JBF (Nov 30, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> Current frustration in my writing:
> _College alumni who donate money to their alma mater are known as what?_
> 
> Google and my own grey-matter have both let me down.
> ...



So far as I know they've only ever been called 'alumni' unless the school makes up some kind of special donor title.  'Benefactor' seems to be the most common.  Sometimes a derivative of 'philanthrope' works, too.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 1, 2022)

JBF said:


> So far as I know they've only ever been called 'alumni' unless the school makes up some kind of special donor title.  'Benefactor' seems to be the most common.  Sometimes a derivative of 'philanthrope' works, too.



I made a judgement call. We’re talking two 18 year olds that live in town in the middle of Kansas with a population of 5,000 in 1990 which is the year of the setting. I went with ‘donor.’  Since it’s dialog, accuracy be damned.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 1, 2022)

@That Guy Named Aaron  wrote:


> I made a judgement call. We’re talking two 18 year olds that live in town in the middle of Kansas with a population of 5,000 in 1990 which is the year of the setting. I went with ‘donor.’  Since it’s dialog, accuracy be damned



My high school served 3 towns and had 15 kids in the graduating class. Many of us had known each other since kindergarten.


----------



## roadscribe (Dec 1, 2022)

I've been going through these responses and had a couple thoughts. When I started writing thirty years ago, I had most of the same frustrations. Some of these responses gave me chills because I remember them well! I just wanted to pop in here and say, it gets easier. I know some of you guys feel trapped and stuck at many of these hurdles, but keep reminding yourself, most of these hurdles are in your mind. With time and relentless determination, you can get through anything in your way. But you need to put the time in. I didn't sell my first script for almost ten years after I started writing and I'm convinced it was due to settling down in that project and letting go of anything I could not control.

One last tip, remember a ship without a port has no direction. I'm not suggesting you become a plotter (I'm a plantser myself) but have guideposts, always. Find your beacon to set sail, whatever that is. If you want to publish by a certain date as a target, do whatever it takes to insure that beacon is always lit, even in the most cloudy situations, find the beacon and keep sailing. I always set clear and actionable goals, from the most simple (line by line) to the most fundamental (target dates). Anyway, hope you all find your way through these issues. Let's have a blowout in 2023! 

All my best!


----------



## Parabola (Dec 2, 2022)

I'm stuck in the perpetual twilight world of three unfinished projects. MC3/Leo/and Untitled.


----------



## Explosia (Dec 2, 2022)

I am still not sure how to orchestrate this next sequence to get the ball rolling again. Talk about frustrating; I'm literally _at_ the big climax of the final act, and yet I can't proceed to the kickoff! 

What's holding me back is that this is a tense moment, and I don't want it to fizzle out into nothing. But I don't want to shoehorn in some wild chaos that wouldn't seem organic to the scene... Like, I don't want to throw some brick through a window for no reason, so to speak.


----------



## Taylor (Dec 2, 2022)

Explosia said:


> I am still not sure how to orchestrate this next sequence to get the ball rolling again. Talk about frustrating; I'm literally _at_ the big climax of the final act, and yet I can't proceed to the kickoff!
> 
> What's holding me back is that this is a tense moment, and I don't want it to fizzle out into nothing. But I don't want to shoehorn in some wild chaos that wouldn't seem organic to the scene... Like, I don't want to throw some brick through a window for no reason, so to speak.


I know this feeling.  It sounds like you have high standards, so you're looking for something original but believable.  I had a slowdown at a climax because someone got arrested, and I wanted something unexpected.  I ended up having him not show up at an important event, so the whole thing happened off-camera, so to speak.  

It_ will_ come.


----------



## Parabola (Dec 2, 2022)

I have no idea how much of the modern world to include in Leo/MC. I guess they take place early 90s/very early 00s? Don't know if that's an interesting "era" to tackle yet, but that's where I'm at right now.


----------



## Taylor (Dec 2, 2022)

My greatest frustration is when stick handling my plot, slows me down.

Like today, I'm writing a character who is a "mortgage broker," meaning he's a financial intermediary who works with multiple lenders. However, as I'm introducing him to others in his work environment, it would be easier for him to be employed by the bank, making him a "mortgage banker."  But then I think maybe it would be useful for character development if he is self-employed but still only works with one bank.  That would bring in an element of shade since that would be unethical.  Then I have to research to ensure it's believable.  Then how bad do I want to make him?  Or could this just be something that he did, inadvertently at first and then fell into when it became lucrative?  Do I want kickbacks from the bank?  How bad do I want the bank to be?  Is it standard practice, or just from one bad VP? Then the bank would be less culpable.  Hmmm ... what to do ...

My head starts to hurt, so I get up for another cup of coffee.  Geesh!


----------



## KatPC (Dec 2, 2022)

Taylor said:


> My head starts to hurt, so I get up for another cup of coffee. Geesh!


I hope the powers above can read this ... but feel your pain @Taylor ... can we add a *hug emoji please?


----------



## Louanne Learning (Dec 2, 2022)

I think frustration is an integral part of the creative process. When trying to make something new, it only makes sense we will sometimes feel lost as as we search for it. We set such high expectations for ourselves and we wait for our brains to catch up to our creative impulse.

Sometimes, we have to just listen to our frustrations, back up, and come at it from a different angle.


----------



## Parabola (Dec 3, 2022)

So, trying to break down all the projects I completed from March-October and where I stand at present.

Novels (first drafts):

MC1 (85k)
MC2 (90k)
MC3 (unfinished but decent chunk written)
MC4 (alternate universe version of book 1, also unfinished, actually in a weird way it loops around to the beginning. hey I wonder how long I can keep this parentheses going?)

The Loser's Labyrinth (90K)
Leo (WIP)
Untitled Novel (unfinished)

So, in summary "I got distracted."


----------



## Moon Child (Dec 3, 2022)

Frustrating? Writing? Why do you think that?  

Only teasing lol! 

Okay, it's Christmas time and up until three years ago I loved it. But, now, December and January are hard for me and that stops me writing.
 January 2nd is the 2 year anniversary of my dad's death. January 14th is the 3 year anniversary of my mum's death. He was 71, she was 56. 

This December I'm having medical tests too on top of that so yea, my writing has ground to a halt. Plenty of ideas and desire to write, I'm just not writing.


----------



## Explosia (Dec 3, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I know this feeling.  It sounds like you have high standards, so you're looking for something original but believable.  I had a slowdown at a climax because someone got arrested, and I wanted something unexpected.  I ended up having him not show up at an important event, so the whole thing happened off-camera, so to speak.
> 
> It_ will_ come.


Well, so far, somebody has gotten punched, so I think we're making progress...!


----------



## Parabola (Dec 4, 2022)

Just like @Moon Child, plenty of ideas but life's a bit of a slog as well atm, so fictional keyboard meanderings are a bit distant in my future.


----------



## DrVanya (Dec 4, 2022)

My frustration:
Several weeks ago I wrote some incredibly clunky and awkward dialog thinking _I'll fix it later._ Today is later.


----------



## Explosia (Dec 4, 2022)

I think I did iiiiiit! Or, at least... I got a scene out and it's transitioning into the next scene that will be an actual plot beat heading toward the climax of the story _MAYBE_... Woohoo yeaaaaaaaaaaah! Hopefully this next scene could be a bit of a fun one.


----------



## Parabola (Dec 6, 2022)

"I got distracted"

Story of my life.


----------



## Parabola (Dec 7, 2022)

Keeping in line with above post, what will it be today? MC or Leo? Maybe I need to get a Mentalo.


----------



## Nobelia (Dec 8, 2022)

KatPC said:


> It is a hard slog, one I have yet to conquer, but take note of what you have wrote. I will highlight:
> 
> consistency
> ... make everything I've learned
> ...


One of the most encouraging things for me, is to know that other greater writers I admire, have struggled, and are proud to admit so. It's the expectation of painless first tries, that creates doubt and upset. When I see a writer where I'd like to be, I want to see the roots that held them up that far. I need to know what sustained them, and how they grew to withstand becoming undone. That is motivation for me. That is how I remind myself that the struggle is means for the end goal.

I'm learning to be grateful for the challenging days, because I know I'm being molded; those tugs and strains are pulling me in the right direction.


----------



## KatPC (Dec 8, 2022)

Nobelia said:


> I need to know what sustained them, and how they grew to withstand becoming undone.


I don't think this is a 'need to know.' I think it is the need to experience.

Only in adversity can we find our real strength. I have 'quit' many times with writing but I always come back but it is very much a part of me. To give up and binge watch TV or play games is easy, even the excuse of spending time with kids and family doesn't hold up, because writing is no longer a passion but who I am. I found this out through huge despondent times and I return to get better.

You read and hear a lot of cliches about not giving up and stuff, and it is very true. Knowing is one thing, but walking through it is so much better. For each 'quit' it hurt but that only made me realise the importance of it to me. As the age old saying goes: You don't know what you've lost until you've lost it.


----------



## Parabola (Dec 9, 2022)

A couple thoughts about Leo. The bits that seemed the most grounded from a plot perspective were not part of understandably, the quasi-dream sequence that went on a bit too long. Much of the time, I'm conscious of the plot turning into molasses yet go full steam ahead anyway. Another aspect I'm thinking about is introducing Billy's addiction earlier. Similar to Ethan, I've given him impulse control issues, but they manifest as jealousy/self-destructive tendencies. They're more downplayed even when they do appear, so I'm thinking of ramping them up a little.


----------



## Explosia (Dec 9, 2022)

Big frustration right now is when a reader forgets or completely misses _huuuuge_ plot details, and then later they're super confused when those details are revisited... Just makes me sit there thinking "Damn, how and _where_ exactly did I lose 'em???" 

In fairness, it's probably an indication that I need to mention those details one more time at some point to keep the reader reminded. Or permeate the narration with those details more so that they'll hold more weight. But it's definitely clear that my big WIP is still a far cry from querying... Man, does it take such a long time to get a manuscript to that point, though... 

I still haven't finished the re-write/big edit for the last couple of chapters. Over the course of the next couple of weeks, I'll get there, though. Once I have that version of the draft all written out, I'm going to plop it into a hard drive, and honestly, I'd like to print out a hard copy of it, too. Maybe even get it binded to be fancy. And once I have the "third person omniscent" version of the text preserved, then I can chop at it again, this time thoroughly infusing the narration with my MC's voice rather than just "narration". 

I do admit that character voice is more fun to both read and write. I thought I could pull off third-person omniscient, though, a la Michael Crichton's _Jurassic Park_ because I have always loved how that book is narrated. But it's just not how folks are consuming fiction these days. Or, maybe it's that my story, here, isn't meant for omniscient narration. 

Bit of a tangent, but I once saw a fan ask Masahiro Ito (the concept artist who designed Pyramid Head from SH2) how he was able to draw and sketch so quickly. He answered that it was because he was able to make decisions. More specifically, his confidence in his art allowed him to make decisions, and I find that to be a pretty profound point. I think my biggest obstacle is that I'm not making confident decisions for this WIP, and boy, it shows...


----------



## Parabola (Dec 10, 2022)

Now I'm thinking whether or not I should jump ahead to the winter section and have flashbacks on the part where Billy is inside the horror movie. But that kind of thing can take the steam out of the plot. Maybe I could just shorten that section instead. I already went on too long with the not-quite-dream sequence. 

Thinking about some other stuff I want to tackle at some point. His dad died a year before the story begins, and shortly after (that death) he drops out of the football team. I don't know much about football, so I'd have to read some articles so that the jargon works. More importantly, I didn't include any scenes or allude to his relationship with his dad, or how their dynamic centered on Billy's performance.

Billy tries to glorify him, but the reality is leaning toward the middle, or slanted a bit negative. We'll see.


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Dec 10, 2022)

I started Melanie’s story as a straight romance but it’s boring me to tears. 50k words in and I’m back to the beginning, trying to insert a B story to make it more interesting. I may even change the setting.


----------



## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 10, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> I started Melanie’s story as a straight romance but it’s boring me to tears. 50k words in and I’m back to the beginning, trying to insert a B story to make it more interesting. I may even change the setting.



It needs more cowbell.

Problem solved.


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Dec 10, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> It needs more cowbell.
> 
> Problem solved.


Maybe it needs Christopher Walken


----------



## Parabola (Dec 10, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> I started Melanie’s story as a straight romance but it’s boring me to tears. 50k words in and I’m back to the beginning, trying to insert a B story to make it more interesting. I may even change the setting.



Yeah, I find some of the best romances happen when there's something else going on in the story.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 10, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> I started Melanie’s story as a straight romance but it’s boring me to tears. 50k words in and I’m back to the beginning, trying to insert a B story to make it more interesting. I may even change the setting.


What's at stake?


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Dec 10, 2022)

indianroads said:


> What's at stake?


Primarily, her privacy. She had a secret baby ten years ago, her mother is psychologically fragile so she doesn’t want her parents to know and she despises the child’s father.
But since the turning point is her secret going viral via social media I need a new goal for her.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 10, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> Primarily, her privacy. She had a secret baby ten years ago, her mother is psychologically fragile so she doesn’t want her parents to know and she despises the child’s father.
> But since the turning point is her secret going viral via social media I need a new goal for her.


Is the child living with her, or the father?
What can be done to up the stakes?


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Dec 10, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Is the child living with her, or the father?
> What can be done to up the stakes?


The child was adopted, a closed adoption. The truth comes out because of this viral video (he looks exactly like the father). I just don’t know if describing everyone’s reaction to learning about the child is enough of a story.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 10, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> The child was adopted, a closed adoption. The truth comes out because of this viral video (he looks exactly like the father). I just don’t know if describing everyone’s reaction to learning about the child is enough of a story.


Could the child learn of her and initiate contact?


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Dec 10, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Could the child learn of her and initiate contact?


That’s what I’ve written so far. He ‘ran away’ to meet Melanie because his dads were against the idea.


----------



## indianroads (Dec 10, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> That’s what I’ve written so far. He ‘ran away’ to meet Melanie because his dads were against the idea.


Yeah - it needs some sort of drama there.
Standard tropes are gang affiliation, drug addiction, or disease. 
Maybe resentment at being 'thrown away' by the mother?


----------



## C.K.Johnson (Dec 10, 2022)

indianroads said:


> Yeah - it needs some sort of drama there.
> Standard tropes are gang affiliation, drug addiction, or disease.
> Maybe resentment at being 'thrown away' by the mother?


I think she has enough resentment thrown at her by the birth father and her mother. When the boy’s dads show up, they’re also going to be upset because it was supposed to be a closed adoption. 
And she’s dating a friend of the birth father. So her boyfriend is also mad at her for keeping this a secret.


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## indianroads (Dec 10, 2022)

C.K.Johnson said:


> I think she has enough resentment thrown at her by the birth father and her mother. When the boy’s dads show up, they’re also going to be upset because it was supposed to be a closed adoption.
> And she’s dating a friend of the birth father. So her boyfriend is also mad at her for keeping this a secret.


Yeah - adding a child into what he knows about her past could raise questions and cause problems. Boyfriend could wonder what else he doesn't know. Birth father could confide with boyfriend and cause all sorts of issues. A tangled web we weave... as the saying goes.
Yours isn't a genre I write or read much of, but I still think there needs to be another element in the plot.


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## indianroads (Dec 10, 2022)

My sister-in-law had a child in her first marriage that neither of them wanted. The kid lived with the father mostly, but was shipped off to school and to stay with his family for years on end. He resents both parents - and grew up to become a guy that does maintenance work at a hotel in Montana. My sister-in-law went on to marry a lawyer and have another boy, who, with the support of his family became successful. There's gotta be a ton of resentment there, but I stay out of it.


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## C.K.Johnson (Dec 10, 2022)

indianroads said:


> My sister-in-law had a child in her first marriage that neither of them wanted. The kid lived with the father mostly, but was shipped off to school and to stay with his family for years on end. He resents both parents - and grew up to become a guy that does maintenance work at a hotel in Montana. My sister-in-law went on to marry a lawyer and have another boy, who, with the support of his family became successful. There's gotta be a ton of resentment there, but I stay out of it.


My story was inspired by my son learning he had a 13 year old son because a high school friend texted him a picture of the boy saying - who does this look like? Exactly like my son. My grandson is now 21 and they have a great relationship.


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## Parabola (Dec 10, 2022)

The last 15-20k in Leo seems like a mishmash of possibilities. It'd be the same arc, but the structure has several permutations. Too many options...ugggh.


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## Explosia (Dec 10, 2022)

This chapter is a S L O G ... it's going at such a crawl... but I just want it to get done so I can move on...!


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## Parabola (Dec 10, 2022)

Explosia said:


> This chapter is a S L O G ... it's going at such a crawl... but I just want it to get done so I can move on...!



I hate slog chapters and getting stuck in the weeds...


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## Explosia (Dec 10, 2022)

Parabola said:


> I hate slog chapters and getting stuck in the weeds...


I am getting _strangled_  ......! But listening to some looping 1920s style jazz music kinda helped........


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## Parabola (Dec 10, 2022)

Explosia said:


> I am getting _strangled_  ......! But listening to some looping 1920s style jazz music kinda helped........



Jazz...might have to try that.


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## Parabola (Dec 11, 2022)

I wrote MC in a flash of inspiration, after a long time of not writing anything. Leo came at the end of a highly productive phase, so maybe that's why I've lost some of that motivational punch. In a way, though, it was "that project" which had been rattling around in my head for ages, inspired by _Pet Sematary. _Always wanted to do a story in that same vein. I only took a few beats, the timeframe for the story, anchored by an animal, sort of isolative and more than a dash of somberness. It's also inspired by an obscure YA book I read countless times as a kid.

That said, for some reason it has become stuck in a bizarre marshland of possibilities. I didn't write it in a burst like MC, whatever that implies. Stops and starts. Sometimes I want to take the story in a different direction. Not only does the plot seem murky at this point, but I'm having reservations on the length. Right now, it's shorter than I initially conceived. 

All that said, wrote a section yesterday that made me feel like I'm back on the right track, even if a ton of other stuff is in flux.


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## Explosia (Dec 11, 2022)

Still going at a crawl with this chapter, but I _am_ making progress...  The sequence of events seems kinda BS-ish to me, though. So much of it really feels like "And now I, the author, am moving things around because I can." ... but until I can come up with a better way to enact these events, this is just what they're going to have to be. I think I could slap a pretty dramatic ending to this chapter, though. 

Also... this WIP does have some multiple POVs... and there's a huge part of me that's thinking this chapter really should be in my other MC's POV... another task to add to my list of edits needed for the next draft...


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## bazz cargo (Dec 11, 2022)

I wanna moan
Why is it that my heart wants to write fiction but I end up in the non-fiction markdown bin?


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## indianroads (Dec 11, 2022)

bazz cargo said:


> I wanna moan
> Why is it that my heart wants to write fiction but I end up in the non-fiction markdown bin?


For a lot of folks, reality is something we want to escape.


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## Parabola (Dec 11, 2022)

Sometimes you can write an authentic character (based off of observations/other stuff), but that doesn't mean you have to like them. Originally, I went for a "kindness aesthetic" for Billy, well, he's since lost his halo. He's a bit animated by jealousy and projection, not in a malicious way, still he can grate. I might trim some of that if I feel like it gets to be too much.


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## Parabola (Dec 12, 2022)

Meh.

The writer's life.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 12, 2022)

Parabola said:


> Meh.
> 
> The writer's life.


How many times did it kick you in the shins this weekend

Goin’ on six myself, and one boot hit higher.

EDIT: I thought Moon Child wrote this. Terribly sorry, no offense meant. Deleted Young Lady.


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## Parabola (Dec 12, 2022)

That Guy Named Aaron said:


> How many times did it kick you in the shins this weekend, young lady?
> 
> Goin’ on six myself, and one boot hit higher.



"At least five" is my stock answer for most things, but probably higher lol. Yeah, one should wear a steel jock at all times.


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## Explosia (Dec 12, 2022)

THE. CHAPTER. IS. DONE................. 

OHMFFFF........... and gotta say, it got pretty WILD in there...!!  

holyshit and now the big grand finale is like next. oh lord.......


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## DrVanya (Dec 13, 2022)

This was supposed to be the day I said "I finished editing chapter 7, which is also the end of act 1, and can show my progress to friends and family members." But instead it's the day I decide to rewrite chapter 7 as I think my MC arrived at his destination a little too easily.


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## Parabola (Dec 14, 2022)

A pre-holiday toothache is another source of distraction from writing. Why, god? Why torment me?

"Because you're fun to toy with..."

Granted, but still


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## Parabola (Dec 14, 2022)

So many projects, so little time.


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## alexaperk470 (Dec 15, 2022)

People find it difficult to organize their thoughts and put them down on paper at the same time. Feel that writing on paper is a sluggish and laborious procedure.


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## Parabola (Dec 15, 2022)

I'm not writing today because I gave into a decades long addiction with FPSs. Just downloaded "Dusk" and it's a pure blast of gaming nostalgia.


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## Parabola (Dec 17, 2022)

Used to be on this discord server for horror story sharing, and this led me to the conclusion that when you encounter a writer who has had a high level of success, they tend to view that space as "theirs" and don't always react pleasantly when you accidentally get an unexpected flood of positive feedback, which sort of interferes with their need for a 24/7 echo chamber, with the followers ululating on their behalf. Anyway, this wasn't intentional on my part, and I don't use that space anymore. Honestly I'm not into the social jockeying/artistic ego/cult of personality thing.


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## Joker (Dec 17, 2022)

Parabola said:


> Used to be on this discord server for horror story sharing, and this led me to the conclusion that when you encounter a writer who has had a high level of success, they tend to view that space as "theirs" and don't always react pleasantly when you accidentally get an unexpected flood of positive feedback, which sort of interferes with their need for a 24/7 echo chamber, with the followers ululating on their behalf. Anyway, this wasn't intentional on my part, and I don't use that space anymore. Honestly I'm not into the social jockeying/artistic ego/cult of personality thing.



Did you say Cult of Personality?

Echo, play Living Colour.


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## Parabola (Dec 17, 2022)

I think I write because my mind is a collection of memes and one of those memes is trying to birth itself.


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## Parabola (Dec 21, 2022)

Sometimes I'm not sure what to think about _Leo. _Considered making it YA/MG even before I started writing it, but I don't think I'll go that route. Then there's Billy. I waffle between throwing his halo against a stone wall and conjuring up another one. What's worked for me before is writing in a semi-confessional style. I just let regret float into the abstract.


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## Parabola (Dec 22, 2022)

Part of it is that morality/emotion doesn't "sizzle" for me like it might for most people. Though a lot of times people mistake apathy for cruelty. Wishful thinking on their part heh heh. Point being is that I have a hard time writing in vogue character types simply because I have no desire to write them. Or, if I decide to, it's completely at random and just fits the story.


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## ehbowen (Dec 22, 2022)

I have three cats. And they all think my keyboard is their nap spot.

Part of the wall is out due to renovations, so I can't just shut the door....


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## indianroads (Dec 22, 2022)

Our 2 new kittens tried to knock over my computer monitors the other day. Our home is immersed in chaos and the frantic thumping of scampering feet.


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## Parabola (Dec 22, 2022)

I actually have to learn football terms because Billy used to be on the team or whatever. Guess I could just make passing references to touchdowns and the like.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 22, 2022)

Parabola said:


> I actually have to learn football terms because Billy used to be on the team or whatever. Guess I could just make passing references to touchdowns and the like.



I think I mentioned it before on here, but when someone at work says something so absurd that it's nearly impossible to argue or correct them, we simply say "*Touchdown, Lakers.*"


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## Joker (Dec 22, 2022)

Parabola said:


> I actually have to learn football terms because Billy used to be on the team or whatever. Guess I could just make passing references to touchdowns and the like.



Jeff Gordon with the hole-in-one! Goooooooooooooooooooooooal Yankees!


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 22, 2022)

Joker said:


> Jeff Gordon with the hole-in-one! Goooooooooooooooooooooooal Yankees!



The Yankees lead Separated United 45-Love at half time going into the 5th period of play....


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## Parabola (Dec 23, 2022)

Dude, what the hell? Billy just shoved a nun in front of a bus and tossed the driver out and is driving it around gta style. All this, a day before Christmas Eve! Will he become even more depraved as time goes on? I...I just don't know.


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## That Guy Named Aaron (Dec 23, 2022)

Or will the meds finally kick in?


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## Theglasshouse (Dec 23, 2022)

My mother using my kindle charger since it charges her cellphone faster. As a result, I haven't used my kindle tablet in weeks.


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## Parabola (Dec 23, 2022)

Sometimes you can almost feel that stodgy, pompous "trying to be like Hemingway" style prose. Did they get their stuff called literature once upon? By a friend, family member, or mindless sycophant? (or just "sycophant"?) Perhaps they started their story off with a dude who popped a boner in algebra class, now that must be literature because it's a relatable "coming of age" experience.


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## Theglasshouse (Dec 23, 2022)

Being called literature is something hypocritical when done by critics. If it sells it probably conveyed the emotion the reader wanted to experience. They tend to favor stories that are produced by those who have been schooled in the art of writing it seems. When you have stories such as the buried giant, and never let me go especially they give genre labels that do a disservice to other writers. The critics focus on choosing their favorites not always by what sells but also by being unfair to the popular genre in general. For example, Stephen King who still gets good criticism for his characters misses some points with critics just because of horror.

I think readers ought to judge for themselves, but the way the world works is that critics force their opinion on everything. Art is for many at the eye of the beholder.

On the other hand when serious writers took up different genes such as Thomas Pynchon in Gravity's rainbow. They receive attention. That's how science fiction advanced as a genre. Thomas Pynchon was a literary writer beforehand. His work is considered literary science fiction. A critic from Yale published Metamorphosis. The high-profile critic of science fiction wrote at a time when science fiction wasn't considered serious art. He argued it was art and people took science fiction more seriously in academic settings I am guessing. It may have spurned more writers to write it maybe a case could be made since he was taken seriously. Elsewhere writing science fiction was considered a career's death blow before because those who were studying in academia would write it.

These are just some of my thoughts on how something is considered a genre when it isn't considered as such or high art.


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## Joker (Dec 23, 2022)

Theglasshouse said:


> Being called literature is something hypocritical when done by critics. If it sells it probably conveyed the emotion the reader wanted to experience. They tend to favor stories that are produced by those who have been schooled in the art of writing it seems. When you have stories such as the buried giant, and never let me go especially they give genre labels that do a disservice to other writers. The critics focus on choosing their favorites not always by what sells but also by being unfair to the popular genre in general. For example, Stephen King who still gets good criticism for his characters misses some points with critics just because of horror.
> 
> I think readers ought to judge for themselves, but the way the world works is that critics force their opinion on everything. Art is for many at the eye of the beholder.
> 
> ...



Instant literary: just add gay characters!


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## JJBuchholz (Dec 24, 2022)

I would have to say that my two biggest writing frustrations are as follows:

1) Taking too long to come up with a title. For me, half the battle of writing something new is having an
appropriate title to set the tone. I hate starting a new work of fiction without a title, or at the very least
a rough working title that can always be modified later. This is issue has sometimes angered me to the
point where I start walking in circles and swearing.

2) Losing my inspiration. It doesn't happen often, but on occasion I have lost a rather large idea or plot
and never gotten it back. An example of this was the novel I started when I was 18 and still in high
school. I wrote 50 pages on lined paper and scribbled more notes to go with it over two years, then
completely blanked and never was able to finish it. I did however, resurrect it 20 years later and turn it
into a novella using the same premise and inserting it into a series of mine because the characters fit.

Still, I wouldn't trade being a writer for anything, even with the massive frustrations.

-JJB


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## Parabola (Dec 31, 2022)

I don't know. I find the intersection of personality and artistic pursuits interesting. Writing through the lens of video game design reminds me I'm very heavy on the idea generation and sort of play fast and loose with stuff because experimentation with different concepts in a nonjudgmental way is what I like. I have little patience for emotional types. Going forward, finding one or two friends who don't have an agenda and who just want to discuss the ideas from a fairly neutral vantage point is something I'm interested in. I've had a couple of people who were receptive about other stuff yet somehow seemed to be pushing some "values" onto me. I don't mean anything specific, just, that emotional reaction makes my skin crawl. Then I have to peel away a visceral dislike. That's probably my issue but everyone functions differently.

So, over the next year, that's what I'm looking for.


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## Theglasshouse (Dec 31, 2022)

I have read some pessimistic movie premises on video games. As someone who enjoyed video games as a kid, I seem to want to see a movie with a positive theme on videogames. The closest I have encountered concerning a theme in a story about video gaming that is optimistic is ender's game.

Movie premises tend to be in the horror domain when the theme is videogames are evil.

 The anime episode I enjoyed years ago showed video gaming as a positive force in the conflict. But it was more of a plot device.

I have read a story on the forum where characters live in a video game world. The fantasy world of the story I had mixed feelings about. I had seen as mentioned anime on this  theme. I have encountered one subplot I enjoyed once when watching anime about a kid who obsesses about playing video games. The conflict is rather interesting. If I have the courage I will write it one day. I suppose I have a secret obsession with videogames. That's because I grew up when 6-7 playing videogames. I think they are a positive force in someone's life if their goal is to have fun.

Back on topic: 1) I feel frustrated with coming up with titles. I understand the frustration.
2) Taking a long time to settle on an idea, which is because I don't read enough what I like.
I realized my problem is that I need to retell old stories with my unique ideas.

I haven't read Ernest cline's work on video games but I hope to read it in the near-future.


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## Parabola (Jan 1, 2023)

Still structuring my most recent world like a video game. Advantages when it comes to my motivation levels and spurring creativity in general.  Disadvantage being, well, obvious financial/resource limitations/time scarcity. I don't really consider it wasted time since it provides color for character stuff.

Just finished up the locations/geography/culture section. So the physical world and some intangibles that feed into the former.

Next document will be the audio/environment design. Some unexpected influences have been very specific cinema styles or movements, and even if all this takes the form of a novel, it can help fuel the peculiar perspective of the MC.

Like I said, a large part of me enjoys worldbuilding out of all aspects of writing, but it can get a bit draining. On the other hand, I know when I'm on a roll motivation wise, so plan to keep going. Another aspect is I want to flesh out the MC more in a separate document, even though his abilities and notable interactions were covered in the core "bible."


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## Parabola (Jan 1, 2023)

Since my current project started out and has remained nonlinear, I'm staring at several concept/overview documents. I have several quests with their own individual stories. Now it's a task of letting that "gel" so a coherent story is formed (if I actually decide to do this in book form). Decisions, decisions.


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## indianroads (Jan 1, 2023)

@Parabola 
Have you ever read Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five? It's the best non linear book I've ever read.


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## Parabola (Jan 1, 2023)

indianroads said:


> @Parabola
> Have you ever read Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five? It's the best non linear book I've ever read.



Well, I decided to go back to my roots with video game design/writing. So basically, I created a fairly elaborate world that was meant for a different medium. But good point, guess it doesn't hurt to play with the structure a bit and see where it goes in book form. It was meant as a fun project anyway.


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## indianroads (Jan 1, 2023)

Parabola said:


> Well, I decided to go back to my roots with video game design/writing. So basically, I created a fairly elaborate world that was meant for a different medium. But good point, guess it doesn't hurt to play with the structure a bit and see where it goes in book form. It was meant as a fun project anyway.


Slaughterhouse Five is an amazing book - highly recommended.


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## Parabola (Jan 1, 2023)

@indianroads I've read parts of it and plan to give it another go at some point. Definitely good stuff from what I read.


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## Parabola (Jan 1, 2023)

My biggest inspiration with this current project is probably the older Fallout games (1/2), PC RPGs that had extensive lore/mythos/cultural explanations. Mine isn't post-apocalyptic in any way. I just liked how the extensive the lore was and how it was structured.  Or just narrative driven games/RPGs in general.


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## Ladyserpentine (Jan 4, 2023)

I absolutely _detest_ naming things. I have spent far too long writing about the Duke's daughter, the group of bandits everyone was afraid of, the leader of the bandits, that particular forest nobody goes, this castle, the other castle..... Time to spend the day scouring Fantasy Name Generator....


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## DrBeachBum (Jan 4, 2023)

Ladyserpentine said:


> I absolutely _detest_ naming things.


I don't detest naming things, it just turns out that I'm not very good at it. 
When I got to what I'm laughingly calling 'the end' of my book and started editing it, I discovered that I was using two names interchangeably for my main character, three for one of the minor-but-important characters, and no less than five for the foreign character.


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## Aelyth (Jan 6, 2023)

I've been trying to write the opening scene of my fantasy short story, but for some reason I just can't get the wording, prose, structure, whatever, _right_. I don't know what's happening, but it's definitely an annoyance. Maybe I'll give the short story a short break. After all, it's a story I want to publish, so maybe that's affecting my ability to write it?


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## Parabola (Jan 6, 2023)

I had some additional thoughts about Jason, a character from MC 1. Even though he's had issues adapting on an interpersonal level (a bit of a pushover), he's developed on a completely different track meaning his influence over certain plot points is difficult to overstate, yet at the same time I don't want it assumed he's the greatest cause in a chain of events. One of Ethan's influences, definitely. That aside, I've also thought about other non-Jason related details.


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## Theglasshouse (Jan 6, 2023)

I have a difficult time experimenting with other genres (doesn't seem fun to me). I focus on science fiction, but writing just science fiction isn't working for me. I am subscribed to two scientific journals. Their technology is tough to implement using world-building. This story in a different genre will be a nice distraction and I have 800 words so far without prose.


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## Parabola (Jan 6, 2023)

Not being in a rush with my MC project is freeing in one sense, irritating in another since my personality tends to center on instant gratification.


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## Parabola (Wednesday at 9:13 PM)

The environment for this one is building up almost automatically in my head. I won't write it down in a separate reference document, since for some reason things seem to lose their magic when I do. So I'll just focus on remembering the important details for now lol.


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## Parabola (Thursday at 9:05 AM)

Writing about a new environment has a paradoxical feel to it. I'm not used to writing through the lens of pre-modern times, and while that's exciting in one way, I'm definitely ambivalent to it since I prefer the atmosphere of "vaguely modern" although I guess the two aren't mutually exclusive if I wanted to thread that particular needle.  I'm not sure if I do. For now, I'll stick to pre-modern. There's a nice, exploratory vibe to it, so for now I'll just roll with the punches so I don't get steamrolled by the possibilities.


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## Envy123 (Yesterday at 1:27 PM)

My best storytelling comes from acting scenes out, according to feedback, but lately I'm not in the mood to do any acting.


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## Parabola (Today at 3:15 PM)

I will roleplay a glowy eyed cat that portends doom. No fiction writing for me today. Just indolence and...other stuff.


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