# Clichés in Writing?



## Nacian (Dec 29, 2011)

Are cliches FUN or dated as the word seems to suggest?


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## Bloggsworth (Dec 29, 2011)

Deja vu all over again...


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## Dramatism (Dec 29, 2011)

I think if possible, other ways to word things are usually best.  Sometimes, I think they're necessary.  I just used a cliche statement in my last chapter for my story on purpose! 
_
"Yes, if it means being with you."  I ignored the cliche nature of her statement and just let the happy butterflies swim in my stomach.
_
Because she spoke it, I consider it different than it being apart of the narrative.  I had a reason for it, but it's hard to say.

​


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## Nacian (Dec 29, 2011)

Bloggsworth said:


> Deja vu all over again...



I tend to fall into that pitfall of thinking that stereotypes are part of or like  cliches since you mentioned dejavus...


Dramatism said:


> I think if possible, other ways to word things are usually best.  Sometimes, I think they're necessary.  I just used a cliche statement in my last chapter for my story on purpose!
> _
> "Yes, if it means being with you."  I ignored the cliche nature of her statement and just let the happy butterflies swim in my stomach.
> _
> ...



I consider cliches to be more of a deeper statement to just a dialogue.
Dialogues in real life contains cliches such as the 'butterfly one' or others like 'it went over my head.
It is almost a form of prose with metaphors of their own rights.


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## Bloggsworth (Dec 29, 2011)

Nacian, here's one for you to decode:- "*She's no better than she should be*..."


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## aj47 (Dec 29, 2011)

I think cliches can be either noise or signal, depending how they're used.  The reason cliches become cliches is that they contain truth-value.  Otherwise people wouldn't repeat them into cliche-hood.   

That said, you also want to demonstrate beyond-the-box thinking.  "Hotter than Hell," is boring. It's a good image, but if you want to show your skills as a writer, you'll find a more creative way to describe it.  But if you're putting it in a charactger's mouth, then, "It was hotter than Hell the day that Brady kid..." works.  Because real people, most of them, speak cliche.


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## Dramatism (Dec 29, 2011)

astroannie said:


> Because real people, most of them, speak cliche.



That's exactly what I was talking about! (I have been misunderstood on forums before, so when I say this, I am screaming with a 'yes, thank you for pointing out what I didn't think of in words')


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## Nacian (Dec 29, 2011)

Bloggsworth said:


> Nacian, here's one for you to decode:- "*She's no better than she should be*..."


yes I have come across this..a bit like '' he's no better then he ought to be''
as in no improvement made.


astroannie said:


> I think cliches can be either noise or signal, depending how they're used.  The reason cliches become cliches is that they contain truth-value.  Otherwise people wouldn't repeat them into cliche-hood.
> 
> That said, you also want to demonstrate beyond-the-box thinking.  "Hotter than Hell," is boring. It's a good image, but if you want to show your skills as a writer, you'll find a more creative way to describe it.  But if you're putting it in a charactger's mouth, then, "It was hotter than Hell the day that Brady kid..." works.  Because real people, most of them, speak cliche.


I am thinking prose here or purple prose.
But aren't some words like 'Hell' self descriptive?



Dramatism said:


> That's exactly what I was talking about! (I have been misunderstood on forums before, so when I say this, I am screaming with a 'yes, thank you for pointing out what I didn't think of in words')


you have  been misunderstood as in you needed to put more cliches on in your posts?
Sorry I am not following:-?


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## Dramatism (Dec 29, 2011)

Nacian said:


> you have  been misunderstood as in you needed to put more cliches on in your posts?
> Sorry I am not following:-?



I could be misunderstood in the way the words could be said.  I didn't mean 'hey, that's what I was talking about'.  I meant a positive connotation, and I for saw that someone could think the negative version.


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## alanmt (Dec 29, 2011)

six of one, half dozen of the other . . . .


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## aj47 (Dec 29, 2011)

The other issue is, if you're too obscure, then you're not communicating either.  I read a lot of poetry where people invent metaphors that don't make sense without explanation.  To my mind, these are failures.  Cliche is useful in preventing these types of failure.   

In prose, such as a recipe, you *want* to tell the reader that the kneaded dough is like a baby's bottom. You don't want to invent something that the reader may not understand.


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## luckyscars (Dec 29, 2011)

yeah, i think cliches are fine if either they are intended to be ironic (for instance, i quite like how in dramatist's quote the character identifies what she's saying as a cliche and then uses one to describe 'butterflies in their stomach') or if they are in dialogue, since it's true a lot of people tend to speak in cliches a lot of the time. i hate them in general narrative or descriptions though. nothing screams 'lazy' like someone talking about 'crashes' of thunder. especially since i don't think thunder actually sounds like a 'crash' anyway.


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## Bloggsworth (Dec 29, 2011)

Nacian said:


> yes I have come across this..a bit like '' he's no better then he ought to be''
> as in no improvement made.



Oh dear me no Nacian, it doesn't mean that at all - Have another try!


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## Nacian (Dec 29, 2011)

alanmt said:


> six of one, half dozen of the other . . . .


hehe this is new to me... here I hazard a guess
"Six of one, half-dozen of the other" says that two things which people refer to differently are actually the same thing.



luckyscars said:


> yeah, i think cliches are fine if either they are intended to be ironic (for instance, i quite like how in dramatist's quote the character identifies what she's saying as a cliche and then uses one to describe 'butterflies in their stomach') or if they are in dialogue, since it's true a lot of people tend to speak in cliches a lot of the time. i hate them in general narrative or descriptions though. nothing screams 'lazy' like someone talking about 'crashes' of thunder. especially since i don't think thunder actually sounds like a 'crash' anyway.


Never read or hear of the Dramatist..
about the the thunder how would you describe the sound intead of '_a crash'_ as you say.



Bloggsworth said:


> Oh dear me no Nacian, it doesn't mean that at all - Have another try!


Oh well...if there is no context it is going to be hit and miss at first...
It means that she or he has not exceeded the standards one has set he or she against.


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## luckyscars (Dec 29, 2011)

i meant the guy who posted the quote from his writing. actually its 'dramatism'!

i don't know exactly how i'd describe thunder, now you mention it. i specifically identified 'crash' because i tend to think of a 'crash' as being a less homogeneous sound than that of thunder, like the sound of an impact - a colliding car, a piano down the stairs, etc. thunder to me is more of an animal sound. quite understated. a 'growl', 'roar' or even a 'crunch' works better in my opinion. though personally i'd probably go with something even less obvious and more understated. a 'grunt of thunder' or a 'groan of thunder' maybe. see, way i see it is there's no real need to amplify the word 'thunder' by superlatives because everyone knows what a 'thunderous' noise the sound of thunder already is. so if i was going to attribute action to thunder it would be in a way that put a different spin on it, the nature of which would be dictated by context.


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## Dramatism (Dec 29, 2011)

My bad, I see it's been corrected...(and actually, I'm very much a girl).


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## MJ Preston (Dec 29, 2011)

He broke from them. Then he broke from himself. I've never seen a man so broken up and ripped apart.
-- _ Martin Sheen as Captain Willard in Apocalypse Now
_


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## Bloggsworth (Dec 29, 2011)

Nacian said:


> Oh well...if there is no context it is going to be hit and miss at first...
> It means that she or he has not exceeded the standards one has set he or she against.



I'll put you out of your misery Nacian. "_No better than she should be" _refers to a woman of lower class, or servant, who cannot really be expected to have moral standards owing to her position in life_. _The subtleties of language in the English class system take a lifetime's understanding, and chances are, you still won't get it right as it changes constantly to exclude the plebs.


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## Nacian (Dec 29, 2011)

luckyscars said:


> i meant the guy who posted the quote from his writing. actually its 'dramatism'!
> 
> i don't know exactly how i'd describe thunder, now you mention it. i specifically identified 'crash' because i tend to think of a 'crash' as being a less homogeneous sound than that of thunder, like the sound of an impact - a colliding car, a piano down the stairs, etc. thunder to me is more of an animal sound. quite understated. a 'growl', 'roar' or even a 'crunch' works better in my opinion. though personally i'd probably go with something even less obvious and more understated. a 'grunt of thunder' or a 'groan of thunder' maybe. see, way i see it is there's no real need to amplify the word 'thunder' by superlatives because everyone knows what a 'thunderous' noise the sound of thunder already is. so if i was going to attribute action to thunder it would be in a way that put a different spin on it, the nature of which would be dictated by context.


interesting..your metaphors are somehow all linked to humans noise, I would have put it differently for some reasons...it is quite difficult though..
I would have said the thunder was exploding like firing sparks shaking our senses to fearful tensions...I would link it to how it would affect me in order to convey its powers...


Dramatism said:


> My bad, I see it's been corrected...(and actually, I'm very much a girl).


so sorry...


MJ Preston said:


> He broke from them. Then he broke from himself. I've never seen a man so broken up and ripped apart.
> -- _ Martin Sheen as Captain Willard in Apocalypse Now
> _


powerful vision.



Bloggsworth said:


> I'll put you out of your misery Nacian. "_No better than she should be" _refers to a woman of lower class, or servant, who cannot really be expected to have moral standards owing to her position in life_. _The subtletiesof language in the English class system take a lifetime's understanding, and chances are, you still won't get it right as it changes constantly to exclude the plebs.


I can keep up I am sure andit will keep me busy hours on ends and more the fun for me as I would not want it to end.
Researching language is an exciting hobbie for me I never tire of it.:mrgreen:


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## Kyle R (Dec 29, 2011)

Is it possible everything is a cliche, just in varying degrees?

"varying degrees" is, in itself, a cliche, as I have heard the phrase before.

So is "in itself". Argh. Now I have a complex. "argh" is a cliche, too!


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## ShatteredUniverse (Dec 31, 2011)

astroannie said:


> I think cliches can be either noise or signal, depending how they're used.  The reason cliches become cliches is that they contain truth-value.  Otherwise people wouldn't repeat them into cliche-hood.
> 
> That said, you also want to demonstrate beyond-the-box thinking.  "Hotter than Hell," is boring. It's a good image, but if you want to show your skills as a writer, you'll find a more creative way to describe it.  But if you're putting it in a charactger's mouth, then, "It was hotter than Hell the day that Brady kid..." works.  Because real people, most of them, speak cliche.



It's called turning a trope upside-down, people. If you're gonna use it, use in a way the reader isn't expecting. 

Example: "It was the coldest I'd ever been and hotter than hell inside between my ears. That cold-heat rippled through my body as I trudged down the sidewalk. I wasn't about to let them see me tremble, though."


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## The Backward OX (Dec 31, 2011)

astroannie said:


> In prose, such as a recipe, you *want* to tell the reader that the kneaded dough is like a baby's bottom.



Why? If I wanted to tell a reader about the quality of kneaded dough, I sure as hell !!Cliché Alert!! wouldn’t be using a baby’s bottom as a figure of speech. The image it creates is simply…simply…words fail me! !!Cliché Alert!!


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