# Lewis Carroll- Alice In Wonderland



## saintoflight (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm interested in hearing readings on 'Alice in Wonderland'? 

There is the psycho-analytical and theories on drugs and dozen of comments of the text being absolute nonsense.

What do you make of 'Alice in Wonderland'?


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## weak sauce (Jul 30, 2008)

I haven't read it yet. To be honest I've always thought it was some stupid children story, and never understood why everyone thought it was so cool. A bunch of people from my high school would wear a bunch of Alice in Wonderland paraphernalia to promote its coolness because it was trippy. I've never seen the whole movie, so I guess I should stop judging it.

What do you think? Is it worth a read or is it complete non sense? I really like drugged out inspired books, I'm a huge fan of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest. Drugs can bring out some interesting writing sometimes.


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## saintoflight (Jul 30, 2008)

I think it really is the reader's interpretation that of the drug reading and that it is much more about Carrol and his life and desires. There is the mushroom, and the hooka mentioned in the text but I really don't think it has anything to do with it. It really depends on what level you want to read the novel. In some ways it is just a story that teaches kids to have fun with words but it also satirised the Victorian way of life, the judicial system, and social rules on etiquette etc


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## Damien. (Jul 30, 2008)

I've read it a lot when I was a kid, and other than the hookah, I never got any drug references. I love the poem the Jabberwocky.


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## Olly Buckle (Aug 13, 2008)

My daughter found it and asked me to read it to her when she was about seven. I started, fully expecting her to be bored silly by about page seven and then we read through the looking glass afterwards. The drugs references are drugs references, there is the bit about rowing the boat through the sweet rushes and ending up in the shop with the sheep knitting in through the looking glass. The root of sweet rush is a psychedelic. It is most weird and I did not understand the fascination it had for my little girl, but it was absolutely real, not based on expectations or anything.


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## KarenJoslin (Aug 24, 2009)

There's also the part where Alice finds the bottle of liquid that says "Drink Me," and when she drinks it she grows so tall that she bursts out of the house she's in.  In the context of the story it appears to be literal, but it could certainly reference a perception one might experience on a psychedelic trip.  I love Lewis Carroll.  I think his work is brilliant.  The words he invented for "Jabberwocky" aren't nonsense, they're actually combinations of existing words to create new words combining both meanings.  And in my opinion, "Alice in Wonderland" is not a bunch of nonsense.  It's a trip through the subconscious mind (after all, the entire book is actually Alice's dream), and the subconscious mind speaks in symbolic imagery, which has its own logic.


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## Skye Jules (Sep 19, 2009)

I enjoyed the book a lot because it touched on the concept of madness, something I enjoy. Plus, the copy I own has this huge analytical essay on the entire novel in it. If you can get a copy of that, the points are pretty interesting. I also used the novel for the open-ended essay on the AP test. 

But here's one question for all of you: How do you feel about Tim Burton's re-make of it?


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## Tom88 (Sep 24, 2009)

My girlfriend was reading this and Through The Looking Glass just the other day! Strange coincidence, I thought.

I think the franchise is in good hands with Burton. There's a huge amount of dark/quirky source material to work with. He'll make it shine in a different light.


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## kidstaple (Sep 29, 2009)

Skye Jules said:


> I enjoyed the book a lot because it touched on the concept of madness, something I enjoy. Plus, the copy I own has this huge analytical essay on the entire novel in it. If you can get a copy of that, the points are pretty interesting. I also used the novel for the open-ended essay on the AP test.
> 
> But here's one question for all of you: How do you feel about Tim Burton's re-make of it?



I think it's still too early in the game to give a full analytical answer, but like Tom88 said, it's in good hands.


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## Tigerfeet (Sep 30, 2009)

I don't know, I haven't seen the movie yet.

If there's one thing that rubs me raw it's when people see a brand on something and immediately label it brilliant. Tim Burton is one such 'brand'. I really enjoyed Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking glass. Jabberwocky is such a fun thing to read and great for creativity (what kind of emotions does the word 'manxome' evoke?). I'd like to see the movie and decide what I think about it then.


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## Himani (Oct 1, 2009)

Tim Burton can do the paranoid insanity very well, all his movies have (what I call) a "claustrophobic madness" to them. I think if that's in his imagining of Alice in Wonderland, it's definitely going to be an interesting interpretation.


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## Mistique (Oct 1, 2009)

I havent read it but it is on my list of books I want to read. So I guess with all the interesting things you all have said about it I think I am going to have to move it up and read it after I have finished Pride and predjudice


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## SilverMoon (Feb 11, 2010)

I own and highly recommend "The Annotated Alice". "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass." We are dealing with a very curious, complicated kind of nonsense and a work of nonsense abounding with so many inviting symbols. 

Many of the characters and episodes are a result of puns and other linguistic jokes and this is easier to grasp than his references to English Parliment and such, for example. I also think that there are many sadistic elements to "Alice". However, this does not detract me from the enjoying the read as there is so much up for interpretation. We have the political, religious, metaphysical, psychological and let's not forget the drug world!; all spread out before us for food for thought. And boy, can you get over stuffed!

"The Jabberwocky" is one of the greatest nonsense poems ever written. I used to be able to recite most of it. But it's long escaped me. Each word in this poem could example a sentence. It's astounding.

Anyone who is a fan must get the annotated version!


			
				Skye Jules said:
			
		

> How do you feel about Tim Burton's re-make of it?


I wish I could say. Haven't heard of it. Would like to give it a whirl since I like Burton. Would you give me some info?


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## Olly Buckle (May 1, 2010)

I was discussing little girls fascination with this book, my friend said that for her as a little girl it was the way all these weird things happened to her and Alice did not get frightened, simply accepted them and applied her common sense, she said it made it very empowering for her as a little girl.


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## AA (May 1, 2010)

Olly Buckle said:


> I was discussing little girls fascination with this book, my friend said that for her as a little girl it was the way all these weird things happened to her and Alice did not get frightened, simply accepted them and applied her common sense, she said it made it very empowering for her as a little girl.



Right. That's why I like it. Not because it is empowering, but because it is a pretty cutting criticism on the adult world, through a child's perspective...all these people doing ridiculous non-sensical things and Alice is just expected to accept that that's the way things are, just because that's the way things are.


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## Cressida (May 4, 2010)

I have never noticed all these drugs references before and am inclined to think that they are the invention of a later age. Alice in Wonderland most closely resembles an LSD trip but for Heaven's sake LSD didn't appear till much later although drugs were common in Victorian times of course. I am sure that there are people who passionately believe this and they will naturally be impossible to dissuade but personally I think it sounds a load of nonsense. I think there is a reference to smoking a hookah but there are references to all sorts of things. Charles Lutwidge Dodgson was certainly rather odd though it has to be said and probably taking drugs would have been the least of his problems.

Actually even more surprising is the fact that only a couple of threads below this one is one about Aldous Huxley. You know Aldous Huxley? Writer of Brave New World. He was the real deal. An advocate of psychadelics, he even went to his death on a massive LSD trip. Raving mad.

Dodgson was I think a mathematician with scary facial hair and a penchant for photographing little girls.


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## Olly Buckle (May 5, 2010)

> I have never noticed all these drugs references before and am inclined to think that they are the invention of a later age.



I don't think so , the bottle on the table is ambiguous, the caterpillar smoking the hookah, is sat on a mushroom, less ambiguous but the one that clinches it, for me at least, is the strange dream sequence with the sheep in the post office in Alice in Wonderland. Alice finds herself in a boat among sweet rush. Sweet rush is not all that common and the root contains an  hallucinogenic similar to mda and mdma in its effects.


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## Cressida (May 5, 2010)

...and of course L Frank Baum specifically wrote The Wizard of Oz to promote homosexuality and become a gay icon. As for J K Rowling she created an entire cast of homosexual characters. They didn’t of course but particularly in the case of the J K Rowling books I can say that there is a vast swathe of people who passionately believe this, populate the Internet with slash fan fiction, and are extremely vocal about their rectitude. :scratch:
You can read anything into a story and if people are convinced then there is no way of swaying them. Personally I have no doubt that Alice in Wonderland is filled with references to Dodgson’s own life but magic mushrooms in Tom Quad? Personally it doesn't do it for me. We shall of course never know.


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