# Booked holiday i cant afford and am so stressed about money please help with advice



## Gisele9 (Apr 12, 2012)

Hello 
I am going through financial hell at the moment. I am trying to figure out how I can survive next month. I am single 
with a 3 year old son and my parents do not have money. My friends are all really poor too at the moment and I know it could be worse, my best friend hasn't paid her health insurance in 3 months because she lost her job :-(( 

At christmas i received some money from an aunt, and i looked on easyjet and booked some really cheap flights to spain for a week with me and my son. The idea was to save for the accomodation and spending money all the way along since december. i really tried but i ended up spending the savings every month just to get by with food etc. the trip is now in three weeks. i booked the cheapest apartment holiday flat i could find and paid the first night. whats left to pay is the last 6 nights. i know i shouldnt have booked this holiday, and i hate the thought of just cancelling but maybe i should. Anyway, i was wondering if anyone had some real specific advice on my budget for next month. i have been crunching the numbers for ages and i am tired and stressed. everything seems important. the holiday (have paid the flights and first nights accomodation, cant get that money back plus i really really want to go it would be so good for my spirits and great for my son - would you cancel though?) 

anyway so here it is 
my income next month will be 1700 after rent and health insurance. 

bills 

--3 months behind on my phone bill. total 430 (phoned - i can pay two months - if i cancel the whole thing, house phone internet etc i will have to pay all 3 bills at once but then in one months time this bills could be zero - internet seems like a lifeline because of social interaction, writing etc. but maybe just cancel it??)

--cleaning lady - 160 per month (should just cancel this ? its like a present to myself once a week, makes me feel so much better but hmm i should so give this up right ..

Laundry - 100 (pay as you go card for communal laundry room) pretty essential 

art studio - 120 cost of rent and transport 200 : this is my passion, painting and i do sometimes make money with it - 2 months ago i paid some urgent debts when i sold two paintings at 400 each. should i give this up ??

accomodation for the holiday - 500 (the biggest expense next month and the reason the bills vs. income are sky high and undoable next month 

electric bill 50 - essential 

misc costs and food - 930 (for the month) i have worked out i can get by on 30 a day here (food is very expensive here) so 30 x 31 is 930. i tried getting by on 20 a day a few months ago really hard and didn't manage. for example just chicken breast from cheap supermarket costs 8)

mobile phone bill 120 - stuck in contract 

thats it . 

the income is 1700, the outcome (on paper - this is for may the calculations) is about 2,770 

anyone have any advice i would so appreciate it. thank you so much 
ps i can see just by writing that the cleaning lady should go so thats done. sad because she is a friend who is poor too ! and makes me feel so good for one night a week to not have to clean up. oh well.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 12, 2012)

Drop the cleaning lady, the studio, and the trip. You can clean your own place, paint in the bedroom, and save the trip for when you can pay for it all at once. When your phone contract is over, get a pay as you go. Start saving for your own washer/dryer, or get a clothesline. Where do you live (or what do you eat) that it costs $30 a day? That's unreal - and definitely something you need to look at for cutting back (particularly that "misc" bit).


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## Sam (Apr 12, 2012)

The restaurant in my hometown is £11.99 a head for a three-course meal. That means I could almost feed three people (excluding beverages) on the £30 you're spending each day to feed yourself and your son. I agree with shadowwalker. That's an obscene amount to spend on food. Start shopping around. 

Get rid of the cleaning lady. It takes ninety minutes to two hours to hoover a large house from top to bottom. You really only need to do it every fortnight. Not every day, like some obsessive-compulsive people I know. I'm sure you can scrounge together that time from somewhere. 

Get Skype. Tell your friends to get it. Cut out phone calls altogether. Too expensive. Find a cheaper broadband provider. 

Oh, and forget about the trip until you can afford it. Malaga will still be there next year. Assuming the world doesn't end, of course.


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## alanmt (Apr 12, 2012)

Get a refund on the tickets if you can.  If you can't, see if you can move the date for several months down the road.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.  Your child's health and nutrition come first, of course.  But I can, in a pinch, eat on $10 a week myself, if necessary.  There has to be a way for you to cut that budget.  Judging from your list, it looks like you might be having a tough time differentiating between luxuries and essentials within the parameters of your current income. Are you talking 100 euros a month for laundry? That is insane. I'd be doing mine in the sink first.


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## wyf (Apr 12, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> Drop the cleaning lady, the studio, and the trip. You can clean your own place, paint in the bedroom, and save the trip for when you can pay for it all at once. When your phone contract is over, get a pay as you go. Start saving for your own washer/dryer, or get a clothesline. Where do you live (or what do you eat) that it costs $30 a day? That's unreal - and definitely something you need to look at for cutting back (particularly that "misc" bit).



For once, 100% agreement. You're complaining about poverty and you have a cleaning lady? Add growing up a bit to the list.

What currency are you talking? i assume your in the uk as your talking about going to spain. your mobile bill is £120 a month?????? I use my blackberry quite heavily and my bill is £25 a month.


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## Gisele9 (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks a lot. 
Alanmt - how can you live on 10 a week? wow. By the way the last three weeks I have been washing my laundry in the bath. haha. 
Shadow - drop the studio, thats a big one. Was harsh to read yet your right :-( I can get by doing my paintings in my house. The studio has so many perks - the equipment on hand that I can use for a start (I share with two other artists) but it is true the cost especially for the travel is killing me. 

The cleaning lady - your all right and I feel even embarrassed to admit that I had one. It started as she is a friend who is in tough money times like me but I just called her and said I wouldn't need her for the forseeable future. So that is one ticked. 

The holiday - grrrrrr! such a tough one! I lose the flight costs (can't change date, can't cancel without losing 100 percent of the money just checked) already paid for one nights accommodation, so the holiday is SO hard to drop. BUT it is why I posted; I wanted to hear if people clearly thought I shouldn't do it. Advice taken :-(


RE: The 30 a day expense. Meat here costs between 7 and 9 dollars, potatoes 5 dollars a bag, vegetables 5 dollars each. (I am living in europe but converted to dollars for this thread as your mostly all in the states) it is ridiculous. laundry detergent 14 dollars, olive oil 12 (!!) There is however a budget type shop in the next village, I am going to go there next week and check out the prices. The quality apparently is really bad but hey desperate times.. plus I can always get at least bin liners and things like that from there. 

thanks again for your answers.


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## kennyc (Apr 12, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> Drop the cleaning lady, the studio, and the trip. You can clean your own place, paint in the bedroom, and save the trip for when you can pay for it all at once. When your phone contract is over, get a pay as you go. Start saving for your own washer/dryer, or get a clothesline. Where do you live (or what do you eat) that it costs $30 a day? That's unreal - and definitely something you need to look at for cutting back (particularly that "misc" bit).



This!

Cleaning lady?  You've got to be kidding? Studio? $30/day on meal........


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## Gisele9 (Apr 12, 2012)

Ps wyf - I wasn't clear about the cleaning lady I guess - sorry for that - I would never financially have looked for one. When I was quite a bit better for money several months ago a good friend of mine was in a dire position for money so I said she could clean my apartment and I would pay her to help her out. It was hard to tell her I can't afford to do it now but I just did. But just to clarify, I was all to do with helping a friend out, I shouldn't really have listed it but I am glad I did, because it made me realize I had to stop helping her at the moment as I can't afford it.


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## wyf (Apr 12, 2012)

Helping your friends is good, but being a grown up means cutting them off (in a nice way) when you have to. 

Are you in the UK? How come your mobile bill is so high?


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## Gisele9 (Apr 12, 2012)

The studio thing was great though before as my income was quite a bit higher and I didn't have money stress. Was so nice not to paint at home and I got revenue from selling paintings quite often. 

KennyC I guess I should have clarified that my income was higher until recently, sorry. Because those things were OK as long as I had the income to afford them much more easily.


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## alanmt (Apr 12, 2012)

It's boring and not healthy, gisele, but you can get the following where I live for about $10.00 total using the cheap brands:

case (24 pkgs) ramen noodle:  3.00
cheapest bag of hotdogs x2:    2.00
loaf of bread x2:                     2.00
margarine:                             1.00  
eggs 1 doz:                            1.20
carrots 1/2 pound:                    .80

Breakfast:  toast and egg
lunch and dinner: ramen with slicedcarrots and hot dog added bread & butter.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 12, 2012)

When you say "meat" - what kind? How much for that $7-9? I bought chicken and hamburger - cheapest. Potatoes - buy a garbage can and seed potatoes. Vegetables - do you have any yard at all? Or container garden. Are there farmer's markets close by?


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## kennyc (Apr 12, 2012)

Thanks for the explanation. Hope you get it figured out. I believe in frugality.


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## BabaYaga (Apr 12, 2012)

Hey Gisele, if you have only paid for 1 night accommodation try CouchSurfing &ndash; The world&rsquo;s largest travel community and see if someone will put you and your son up for a couple of days in return for your hospitality in the future. 

Yeah, I agree with all of the budget cuts suggested. You can also stop buying meat for a few weeks, its astronomically priced if you don't kill it yourself. You can eat just as well (and far more affordably) if you replace it with pulses like lentils, beans, chickpeas, etc. It's also much better for you. 

And nothing wrong with doing your own housework- free gymn.


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## kennyc (Apr 12, 2012)

alanmt said:


> It's boring and not healthy, gisele, but you can get the following where I live for about $10.00 total using the cheap brands:
> 
> case (24 pkgs) ramen noodle:  3.00
> cheapest bag of hotdogs x2:    2.00
> ...



I've been there too. Hell even now I eat lots of spaghetti and lots of Beans/Bean soups.


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## Bilston Blue (Apr 12, 2012)

Hi, Gisele

On a general level as opposed to specifics, run your household as you would a business. You must run at an operating profit, or at the very least completely minimise your losses. 

Times are hard in our house, too. A while back I put everything down on a spreadsheet; all income and expenditure. It was frightening to find out exactly where all the money went. Now we can account for every penny (well, almost every penny) and thus we can cut our cloth accordingly. At the same time, as our income is roughly the same each month at the moment, it is also possible to forecast what money we'll have available to spend or save over the next weeks and months. We cut back so much I was able to keep the subscription to Sky Sports (one of life's essentials), and it's amazing just how much money you waste when you figure it all out. My wife stopped taking my daughter into town on the bus two or three times a week (bus fare, lunch, coffee, treats for my daughter=a scary amount of money); but as it's only being spent in small amounts, a couple of pounds here, a couple there; you don't notice it mount up.

Good luck, I hope you get things sorted.


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## JosephB (Apr 13, 2012)

I had to chuckle a little when I read about the cleaning lady. My wife and I went to this financial planning thing -- and at the end of each session, we would sit in a circle and talk -- sort of like group therapy. One of the recurring things was this idea of "rewarding yourself" as a means to justify purchases -- going out to eat was a common one. The counselor said, that whenever you start to use that thinking -- it probably means you're doing something you can't afford to do -- and that it's important to get out of that mindset and realize that the best way to reward yourself is to get/stay out of debt and live within your means. Pretty good advice.


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## BabaYaga (Apr 13, 2012)

For sure- best financial advice I ever got was from my dad- don't spend money you don't have. The only things you should ever be in debt for are your car, your house and your education- and even those debts should be budgeted for.


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## GonneLights (Apr 13, 2012)

All things considered, though, you had a pretty good thing going until you booked this holiday. You actually CAN afford a cleaning lady, expensive food, paid washing and an art studio - you were sustaining that way. Alright, you were tight by the end of the month, but me and my ma are tight by the end of the month, and we can't afford a cleaning lady, expensive food, paid washing or an art studio. And we're happy. You don't _actually _need to cut anything. You've booked the holiday, though, so you're stuck. You would have been alright if not for that.

I see no reason not to go, however. Go on the holiday, cancel the studio, cleaning lady and downsize your food for the following amount of months until you get back to the level you are now. When you cut all that expenditure your finances will quickly rise, and you can get back on it. The things your doing aren't squandrant - a cleaning lady _once a week_, an art studio and fine food; those are very worthy and very considered luxuries. It's not like you're spending it on cocaine. The only problem is you measure your wealth in tangible things; money. The cleaning lady, art studio and food aren't made out of gold, so you don't consider them your estate, and you've gotten so used to it now you accept them as LOSSES of money, similar to taxes, not the rewards of money.

I say only cancel temporarily, because you've made it this far. And I don't know how badly the holiday will set you back, but I don't see it making much of a difference. You're not living desperately, you're living well. Just because you open the piggy bank every now and then doesn't mean you have to budget. We live that way, granted we don't have that kind of money to spend, but on a smaller scale. I've lavished £300 on a recording studio for two days, realistically I can't afford that, I'm from the slums, man! And money's been tight, real tight, for the past couple months. I've been buying food like... A box of chicken for 80p, bread for 80p - does 2 weeks of meals. How cheap is that, right? And then I'll have a professionally recorded album. I'm alright. You have more money for luxuries - regular luxuries. You're alright. 

But, hey, this is coming from someone on the breadline, hahaha, so perhaps I'm not the best source of budgeting advice. I just don't see why now, suddenly, you should stop everything for the rest of your life because you spent a little more than you saved. If a farmer runs out of grain he doesn't sell his plough, right?


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## Elvenswordsman (Apr 13, 2012)

*Talk to a Financial Advisor at your local bank*



> --3 months behind on my phone bill. total 430 (phoned - i can pay two months - if i cancel the whole thing, house phone internet etc i will have to pay all 3 bills at once but then in one months time this bills could be zero - internet seems like a lifeline because of social interaction, writing etc. but maybe just cancel it??)
> 
> --cleaning lady - 160 per month (should just cancel this ? its like a present to myself once a week, makes me feel so much better but hmm i should so give this up right ..
> 
> ...



Alright, so a better breakdown for this is using an income statement;

Monthly
Revenue
Income - 1700
Art Income - 400 (800 over 2 months)

Expenses
Phone Bill, Internet, Other? - 143.33/mth
Mobile Phone Bill - 120/mth (WTF? You're way overpaying for all of your services)
Cleaning Lady - (Noticed you've axed this, good for you).
Laundry - 100
Art Studio - 120
Transport - 200
Holiday - 500
Electricity - 50
Food - 930 (I'm not recognizing your Misc. here, as it's only broken down as food.)

So we'll break down your deficit, and some options to fixing it.

First - have fun on your trip. Getting out of it will end up ruining not only your initial investment, but will hurt you mentally, and spiritually. Go, and enjoy yourself. When doing things there, make sure to limit your costs, but don't obsess over it. Too many times, people with financial problems tend to obsess, and it only stresses you out more. The amount of income lost due to stress is far more than the waste of money due to vacations.

Second - You're being torn apart for your phone bill, internet, mobile phone, and whatever else comes with that (cable, or other). Whoever you're with, they're absolutely ruthless. Here's an idea for you - consolidation. In my house, we have 3 cell phones, Fibre Op (fastest, best internet available), over 900 channels, and we're paying less that $170/mth. Why not contact your service provider(s) and see if it's possible to bring the services together to a single bill. If that's not possible, try negotiating different plans for your services. I know that here, we can't renegotiate the FibreOp plan, because it's a non-negotiable install (because new pieces have to be installed into the home to accommodate it). However, our cell phone plans have been changed many times. We originally were paying around $120 for the three phones, and we're now only paying around $70. People are understanding, and if you talk to someone who isn't (a call center agent), then ask for the supervisor. Explain the problems, and the supervisor will most likely be willing to help.

Third, your art is obviously not a negative affect. So long as you continue to sell pieces, and as long as they cover the costs you incur as a result of  them, then you're doing better than most artists. However, I'd argue that moving to your house is a better idea, as you cut overhead costs (i.e. rent of the studio space).

You also seem to be spending a ton on laundry. I'm not overly knowledgeable of communal laundry, but I do know that I can have a full load of clothes done once a week for less than $10. There are 4.3 weeks in a month, which equates to $43. I feel if you think you need to wash your clothes, and the costs are way over what is required, you may want to try and figure out ways to wear something more than once. Unless you're overly dirty, sweaty, or around germs in your daily work, I'd say it's unnecessary to wash certain items after every wear. I would wear a pair of jeans 3 or 4 times before even thinking about washing them, and normally if I fold them properly, nobody even knows if I let them go for 6 or 7 wears. T-shirts is a bit harder, but if you wear a t-shirt under something, it's not so hard. I also space out wearing the same article, so it's impossible to guess whether I'd worn it the day before, maybe it's dirty.

You've managed to recognize that the cleaning lady is unnecessary, but what about the massive Misc. and Food costs? I live in a house with 4 adults, and normally there are many days we have up to 10 people. We've never spent more than $400 for a month of groceries, and normally we only spend about $250-300 a month. I noticed you didn't have entertainment there, but if you're so into writing I wouldn't think you see a movie every night of the week. Take a look at these numbers, I feel they're far more ridiculous than 2 people could spend (especially since the second person is a child).

Also, when it comes to food, normally if you make something for a load of people, it'll last as left-overs. When making food, think into the future. Soup can be made for 10 people for less than $5, and can last 2 people nearly a week. Try and think smart when making food, not about what it is you WANT. Sure, I may want to eat Chicken Carbonara tonight, and maybe a stir fry tomorrow, but is it logical to waste on food when I could organize meals to work better? Try this - if you like salads, make yourself a garden salad (no sauces). Eat it, and then pack it away into a stir fry tomorrow. Stir fry can go well with lots of things, from rice to pasta. Choose your meals wisely.

As for making your income exceed your expenses, lets take another look at your numbers.

Monthly
Revenue
Income - 1700

Is 1700 really the best you can do in your area? I understand it's not easy, but most people where I'm from earn $2000 working a full-time job a month, or more. If possible, why not look for advances in work, or overtime if you can so that you can pay down whatever debt you have. Once that's done, you can decide to cut hours based on how well off you are financially.

Art Income - 400 (800 over 2 months)

Please, do continue this. If you can sell 2 paintings at $800, surely you're doing something right. Try getting your work into local cafes, bistros, or wherever you can so it can be showcased (and sold). Remember, merchants are more than willing to barter on your pieces, so if you sell a painting at his cafe, maybe you give him $20 to keep him happy. I know of cases where merchants pay to have work showcased, and then all proceeds go to the painter if it sells.

Expenses
Phone Bill, Internet, Other? - 143.33/mth
Mobile Phone Bill - 120/mth (WTF? You're way overpaying for all of your services)

So I have these two grouped for a reason. If you've got a a mobile, is it necessary to have a home number? Also, I don't know what kind of phone you have, but around here, a base plan is $15 a month. The most expensive plan I've seen is $65, and that includes 2 gb of data usage. Look into your bills, and try and find better solutions.

Cleaning Lady - (Noticed you've axed this, good for you).

Laundry - 100

As I mentioned above, should be more than half of this number. Work out how you can get better value for your dollar.

Art Studio - 120

You'll notice I said that this is a great thing, if it's needed, but that working from home can really save you a lot of overhead. Note that 7.1% of your income goes to paying for a studio; does that really make a lot of sense? Especially since you have NO savings listed, whatsoever.

Transport - 200

I'm not sure how much driving you do, or what you're doing, so I can't tell you much about this. Gas prices will only go up, so transportation should be noted as one of the larger expenses in your earnings.

Holiday - 500

I think this doesn't include your flight costs. I'm disappointed about how much you're spending, and how little it appears to get you. Aim for budgeting vacations, and paying cash for the full thing. Chances are if you can't afford to pay cash for it, you can't afford it.

Electricity - 50

This is a fantastic number, we're paying more than 3X that.

Food - 930 (I'm not recognizing your Misc. here, as it's only broken down as food.)

This has to be fixed. Badly. Work on a meal plan if you have to, but fix this.

Let's look at some percents vs. what you are spending and what you should be spending.

Food at home 7.7%
Food away from home 5.4%
Alcoholic beverages 1.0%
*Total food and drink 14.1% (IDEAL) Yours = 54% (Incl. whatever you call misc)*
Housing 32.9% (You didn't note your living costs, so maybe you're living for free?)
Apparel and services 4.0%
Vehicles 9.1%
Gasoline and motor oil 3.3%
Other transportation 6.7% (Yours is good, as you're only spending 11.7% total, vs the 19.1% Ideal)
*TotalTransportation 19.1%*
Healthcare 5.9%
Entertainment 5.0%
Personal care products and services 1.3%
Reading .3%
Education 1.9%
Tobacco products and smoking supplies .7%
Miscellaneous 1.5%
Cash contributions 3.4%
Personal insurance and pensions 9.9%


So you see the numbers here, vs whatever you're using. Perhaps take a look at what you're spending, and try to match with numbers here. Remember that these numbers are IDEAL, and that they are not inclusive of what you should be saving monthly (20% of overall earnings is what I recommend).

Anyways, any questions, let me know. I'm trained to do Financial Advising, and I'm currently enrolled in university doing a Finance degree.


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## Cefor (Apr 13, 2012)

Elvenswordsman seems to have the best advice here, but I agree with everyone else in that your food bill seems a hugely excessive amount! Understanding that giving your son the right meals is important, but there's surely a better way to cook than whatever you're doing now... I know for sure that my Dad buys frozen chicken or beef already cut into chunks for like £1 or £2, depending on what he wants/where he gets it... Also, consider meat that isn't fresh, it's probably not as great quality-wise, but it's easy to make into a meal (i.e. canned or frozen goods).

I'd agree that if your art studio is helping, in terms of resources, keep it. IF you keep selling, you're in for some awesome extra cash here.

Is your transport really necessary? Is there anywhere you could cut out public transport/driving and walk instead? It's healthy and gives you quality time with your son or gives you thinking time.

I also agree that going on your holiday is going to be really great. Especially if you are going with your son. Don't cancel, because losing those flight costs and the first night is going to suck, hard. Go, have a good time and try to forget for a short while about your financial issues.

I have no idea what the 'normal' price of laundry is, as in the UK we tend to wash clothes at home in washing machines, not in communal sites; but it does seem a bit high, if you can get away with not washing as much or washing at home, try it?

Best of luck,
Cefor.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 14, 2012)

The only problem with still going on that trip is only part of it - flight and first night - is paid for. Where is that money going to come from? The phone bill? Food? 

Sometimes the cost is a little high for a lesson learned.


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## Elvenswordsman (Apr 14, 2012)

> The only problem with still going on that trip is only part of it - flight and first night - is paid for. Where is that money going to come from? The phone bill? Food?
> 
> Sometimes the cost is a little high for a lesson learned.




I understand what you're saying, however in all of my financial studies, I've never found anyone who couldn't pay back $1000 worth of credit debt, much less only $500. Sometimes people feel like that's an overwhelming number, but when you've looked at people's debt, and they're literally overspending by $1000 PER MONTH!!!, it really gives you an idea of how small that number really is. Chances are she won't make the same mistake again, if she learns better of it, but the $210 dollars (at most) she'll pay in interest over the next year while she pays it off won't be so horrible. Also note, the interest on $1000 would be $210, but I believe, from the implications, that she's already put more than double that into the vacation, i.e. the higher opportunity cost is NOT going.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 15, 2012)

The money already spent on the vacation is gone, regardless. So now, already in financial trouble, you think she should spend even more? For a vacation she doesn't need and that her 3-year-old won't even remember? Some might consider it a higher opportunity cost - others would consider it throwing good money after bad.


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## Elvenswordsman (Apr 15, 2012)

> The money already spent on the vacation is gone, regardless. So now, already in financial trouble, you think she should spend even more? For a vacation she doesn't need and that her 3-year-old won't even remember? Some might consider it a higher opportunity cost - others would consider it throwing good money after bad.



And if she agrees with you, all the better. I find most people don't like giving up vacations, and that I feel if I lose money it weighs more heavily on me than the plan to repay it.

She spends $500 more dollars (that she doesn't have). Let's work out the repayment.

Monthly
Revenue
Income - 1700
Art Income - 400 (800 over 2 months)

Expenses
Phone Bill, Internet, Other? - 143.33/mth
Mobile Phone Bill - 120/mth (WTF? You're way overpaying for all of your services)
Cleaning Lady - (Noticed you've axed this, good for you).
Laundry - 100
Art Studio - 120
Transport - 200
Holiday - 500
Electricity - 50
Food - 930 (I'm not recognizing your Misc. here, as it's only broken down as food.)

After my revisions, I believe her revenue should be around $2000/month, assuming 3/4 paintings sold per month. Her expenditures should be (assuming there is no movement on the costs of her phone bills, cell bills, and that Laundry, Food and Misc are cut in half, along with whatever other recommendations I made) no more than $1200/month.

Let's, for the sake of showing my case, assume she cannot increase income by selling paintings, maintaining it at $1700/month. At this rate, she could, for 1 year, pay ~ $50/month (including a 20% interest surcharge on the debt). That brings costs up to $1250/month. Then we assume she has to pay back the debt of the phone bills, which would cost ~ $43/month for the year. That brings costs up to nearly $1300/month. Were there other costs I'm forgetting? If not, we place $340/month into an emergency/risk-free savings account until she has accumulated enough to cover 6 months earnings (this will take the longest, but would be the least I would recommend covering). That will take her 2 and 1/2 years to fill, but still would maintain her expenses near $1650/month, leaving $50 to fill in places perhaps overlooked. I still believe that the Food & Misc. would be much less, closer to probably $350/month, but it's up to her to make that call. Note that any income earned from paintings could be added to the emergency account in order to shorten the time required to fill it.

I don't know if I've missed anything, as I've not really planned her budget out entirely for her. At any rate, I believe that, for $50/month, the cost of the vacation won't ruin her.

I agree, that for someone who doesn't NEED the vacation, it's best to quit it. However, if you'll notice, she talks about being extremely stressed. Relaxation takes precedence over "Affordable" debts. So long as she is able to manage her budget to reach more realistic numbers, like the ones I have provided, she should be fine.

P.s. Not all of us are able to rationalize losing investment. Luckily my portfolio isn't one of those.


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## Elvenswordsman (Apr 15, 2012)

> She may not like to give up the vacation, but she's clearly living beyond her means and the loss is "payment to the future" to get it under control.
> 
> Advising her to spend more money is irresponsible.



We live in a world of credit. You may not like it, but people consistently spend what they don't have, only to pay it back at a future date. That is how you have your house, how you drive a car, how gasoline ends up at a gas station down the street from you. Credit is what drives the worlds economy, it adds to the ability for us to gain technologies that allow for more technologies to be gained.

People who pay Cash for houses, aren't realizing that INTEREST is an assumed charge on a mortgage today. Vacations, while they SHOULD be payed for in Cash, as I noted above, can be bought over a period of a year at a cost which, while increased from the original cost, only increases the cost at a percentage per month.

Anyways, the idea that "payment to the future", and advising people to do that, is irresponsible, that is the thinking that has left countries impoverished and other countries as global superpowers.

I understand the dangers of credit, coming from a home where my parents were bankrupt when I was 8 years old. The benefits of seeing it first hand is that I've been able to study it for a while, and come to an understanding of how credit works, the ways it should be used, and where it should be unable to be applied.

My only suggestion is to look at the history of mankind, and find a time of greater prosperity and growth of economies than today. Credit is a new concept, one that has been leveraged for both good and bad.

Call me irresponsible again, I dare you. It's an insult to my knowledge of finance, my person, and the work that so many millions of people have worked on to make successful over hundreds of years. Don't like credit? Go start your own country without it and see how successfully you manage.


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## kennyc (Apr 15, 2012)

Oh and as far as credit, I'd invite everyone to take a look at this documentary:

Secret History of the Credit Card | Watch Free Documentary Online


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## shadowwalker (Apr 15, 2012)

Well, having 'been there, done that', I can tell you that getting caught up on debts and past due bills and not having to constantly worry about creditors calling was the most relaxing, stress-reducing, and comfortable feeling I could imagine. Much better than any vacation (when I just came home exhausted, depressed, and broke).


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## shadowwalker (Apr 15, 2012)

Elvenswordsman said:


> Shadow - It's a fantastic feeling to be debt free, but what about people without that liberty? Also, what would you say to an orphan who has absolutely nothing, brought up as a foster child and finding their way into the world without any form of asset. They must ASSUME debt in order to access the benefits that come with accumulation of wealth.



I'm not saying all debt is evil (and I find your scenario a bit OTT), but unnecessary debt - particularly for luxuries - is just stupid IMHO.


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## Elvenswordsman (Apr 15, 2012)

Sorry Gisele, majorly bastardized your thread. I hope you follow my advice, for your own sake. Set up your savings and try and raise your son with good financial knowledge.

As for Kenny and I, I do hope the personal attack I made against him will only stand as a means for him to cease posting on this thread. He has failed to back up his apparent wealth of information on credit with his training in personal finance, the uses of credit, the history of credit, and apparently believes he can answer the problem of unintelligent investing through a link. To a film. Which is, as a note to him, lacking perspective. Also, just because you follow a documentary, doesn't make you an expert. It's called a degree. I don't see me telling you how to develop a circuit board, as I'm not a Computer Engineer, as you state you are in your profile. Perhaps you can go become a certified financial planner and then tell me about how wrong I am regarding my handling of Gisele's budget. Next time, how about instead of posting for the sake of posting, you add something to the conversation. I looked back through your posts, and see nothing more than the mention of frugality, how food shouldn't cost more than $30 a day, and that you think I'm part of the ilk of investors responsible for the market crash. At least I attempted to define why certain areas are inflated. And just so you know, even prior to changing her earnings, she's only overspending by an amount that is easily corrected.

Should anyone wish to hear my opinions on the housing market crash, Kenny, and any of my other views regarding credit throughout history, I'm more than willing to join in on a debate, should they set it up.

Gisele - My advice on this thread started, and shall end the same way - Go on your vacation, utilize your income as effectively as possible to boost your net worth, and I hope you and your son have a wonderful life. Should you need help in the future, feel free to give me a pm.

Shadow - I deal in over the top. Sorry for the Orphan, but the difference between Gray #00001 and Gray #00002 is about... well, less than 0.0005% of a shade. To draw contrast I used that example, although were you to inquire as to my life, and history, it would be a good example as well.


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## kennyc (Apr 15, 2012)

I've made my points with respect to your opinion elvie. 

I have nothing else to say other than I'll be interested in what the O.P. decides and wish her and particularly her son a wonderful future.


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## shadowwalker (Apr 15, 2012)

Elvenswordsman said:


> Shadow - I deal in over the top.



Which, if you were my financial advisor, would be worrisome. :friendly_wink:


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## Elvenswordsman (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm glad you can have a sense of humor about it. Of course, I should note that I only mean, as I had meant to go on to say, that only applies in examples.

Or does it? 1.2.3. I'VE GOT $65 billion bilked out of unknowing investors. Who am I?


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## Bloggsworth (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm not sure anyone can offer really constructive help without knowing where you actually live; you translate costs into dollars, but don't say what from (or I missed it somewhere).

The prices you talk about sound like Norway, off-hand I can't imagine anywhere else that expensive.  My wife & I live very comfortably in North London on less than £900 a month, even when my expensive daughter lived at home and the mortgage was still extant, we lived on about £1,000 a month. For $30 a day we could eat steak, our food bill rarely reaches £30 for a week. As to your phone, I assume it's a mobile/cell phone, so you should be able to renegotiate your call plan, ring them up and ask for the customer retention department and tell them that they are too expensive and when your contract ends you are going to move to another supplier, and record the conversation and tell them you are doing so, so that if they cut you off saying that you ended the contract you have proof that you didn't so they can't charge you for terminating the contract early (mind you, it would help if you had paid off the backlog before doing this).

We have a golden rule in our house, apart from the mortgage, never buy anything you couldn't pay for in cash if you wanted to. If money was tight we would never have dreamt of booking an expensive holiday in the vague hope that we would be able to pay for it when the time came, if we couldn't afford steak we didn't buy it, and as for a cleaner I go by the advice of the late quentin Crisp "_Don't bother about dusting, after 5 years it doesn't get any worse_".

It sounds to me that you need a bit more self discipline, yes, I understand that you have a "condition", but don't use it as an excuse for failure, use it as a reason to succeed.

Oh - and don't go to the bank, they will sell you something you can't afford, charge you to insure it, then cut your line of credit - Banks are not your friends, they are machines for generating money for directors and shareholders, for them, nothing else counts nowadays. Under no cicumstances use the sevices of a pay-day loan company, they are infinitely worse than banks. Money is like obesity, spend less and you get wealthier, eat less and you lose weight. You sold 2 paintings for $800 last month, sell 3 for $1,100 this mont, you will make more profit as your overheads will remain about the same...

I understand the need for a studio - in a sense, for an artist it is not a luxury as it removes you from a familiar environment which frees the mind of domestic concerns. Have you tried asking for a temporary rent reduction, are you tied in to a rental contract, could you not find one a lot nearer where travel doesn't cost more than the rent?


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## wyf (Apr 16, 2012)

Elvenswordsman said:


> It's a fantastic feeling to be debt free, but what about people without that liberty?



You mean like 99.9% of people? 

The difference is between being in so much dept you can't afford to eat and having a manageable debt.


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## Elvenswordsman (Apr 16, 2012)

> You mean like 99.9% of people?



No, I don't. Did you know that majority of the world doesn't have debt? We call them impoverished, but they have no credit systems. Have you never asked yourself why China has over 145 million empty Condos? It's because in China you have to pay 75% up front. I can't claim to know the number, but I can give you a solid list of countries that don't have the same types of credit systems we have here.

Africa - most countries haven't set up crediting systems because they, themselves, as a country, have no equity to leverage. They are in debt as countries, and have been since the opportunity for credit expansion has been there. So no credit for them. That means that infrastructure hasn't been able to be built, as most of their money has gone into wars fighting for whatever resources exist in the country. Without infrastructure, they have been viewed as "poor investments", because the cost of setting up a business there is extremely high, and success rates are low.

Now lets take a second to fantasize that the western civilizations, that rule the debt of these countries, recognized that the original debt had been paid (most countries in Africa that have outstanding debts are only able to pay the interest each year, if that!), as it has been (most countries in Africa that owe money have paid back over 110% of the original debt!). So let's say, for a second, we stopped living, and profiting, off of the impoverishment of others. What would happen?

Africa would be able to recognize credit, leverage, savings. They would grow into economies, perhaps not instantly, that recognize large majorities of the planets trade. Trade requires peace, and so judicial systems would be set in place that actually work, including the policing that is required to keep the system working. Once the country had the infrastructure, the few original investors have already made their moves, and the countries start boasting profitability, then you would see movement towards these countries, whether for tax reasons or not. Some would deflate their currencies in order to continue to maintain high exports (see China), but the countries with large amounts of resources would soon see their currencies (and lifestyles) equate to western standards.

Can you imagine what would happen if the entire planet were living the lifestyle we are here in North America? I'm sure you're saying "It's impossible, can't happen!" but that's the wrong assumption. There have been studies done, and in a textbook I read while auditing a fourth year economics class (in my first year of studies), my professor brought up Texas. Now, for anyone not familiar with the arguments of population growth, Texas is significant for one reason - its size. A group of the worlds top professors, from engineering, to culture studies, to medical doctors, military strategists, and so on (the minds required to do what I'm about to describe), got together and formulated a city. The called it a Megalopolis (or Megaopolis, not sure). The concept was that they could fit the ENTIRE world's population into the state of Texas (not literally the southern state we all know for it's drawl, guns, and racism, only the proportions of the state - it could be built nearly anywhere). Through this, they could manage the entire population of the planet AND become sustainable with ALL resources required. That's right - everything. Now, of course it's theory, and of course it requires technology that we're only recognizing today in Hydrogen use, water restoration, etc., but imagine it. Kinda cool.

I, myself, adore living in my small city near the Atlantic Coast of Canada. I probably wouldn't be able to live in the Megaopolis, but that's me.


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## jane_ro (May 28, 2012)

I know how you are feeling right now specially so because all you really want is to make your kiddo happy, not to mention of course,how it would also make you happy. The trip has long been planned, but, unfortunately, your resources are starting to go down the drain. I know how you have made initial payments too BUT this am telling you so you can weigh things down: NECESSITY first before LUXURY. If you do insist on still going to this trip and well, borrow from wherever/whomever, chances are, you are still going to face the debt when you come back and face the necessary everyday expense on top of it. Of course, you have to eat, of course you have to pay the bills, of course you have to continue living.

Consider this. You may enjoy the trip 5 days..7 days..after that reality sinks in, and for all you know, your child will also feel the trouble you will be getting yourself in. So, as what has been advised here, cancel the trip..pay the bills, buy food, and do not forget to re schedule the vacation. I'm pretty sure it won't go away!


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