# Crafting The Apocalypse: How To Destroy The World.



## Rojack79 (Jan 9, 2016)

So apparently my book's future society's are not realistic. For those joining me from the other thread let's just get down to business. So My story take's place in a future world were the entire world has been reduced to ruble and society has regressed back to the middle age's. Now the problem with my story according to some people is that i can't have this middle age society with powered armor and futuristic weapon's and at the same time gun's are practically non existent in my future world. Now i have stated that this advanced technology is from the previous era and the people of the middle age's era don't have a way of using most of this technology because they don't have electricity. 

Now one thing i am trying to clarify is this. If the world as a whole is destroyed to the extent that humanity has to regress back to the "Dark Age's" and there is no more knowledge of how to make or use certain piece's of modern/futuristic equipment is it wrong to have said equipment in the story?


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Jan 9, 2016)

For extensive enough damage to have happened to reset society... Knowledge must have somehow been destroyed. The survivors must have been poorly educated or this knowledge somehow lost because of the events. If that much damage was really caused and so few humans survived, any equipment would be completely destroyed or in disrepair. And given that the knowledge to use it wouldn't exist...They would probably think that cities/technology came from a God or Gods, or a superior race that existed before them. 

You can have an apocalyptic scenario where people resort to old methods of combat due to lack of munitions, sure.

But to resort completely back to old ways of thinking would mean that somehow our modern-day knowledge has been done away with, and the survivors and their offspring don't actually know anything about the old world or it's level of technology. 

Otherwise everything would be close to a Fallout scenario, where there are still modern-day level engineers and scientists, but resources are simply scarce.

It wouldn't be wrong to say that some equipment has survived. But people wouldn't know what it is, or how to use it.

Aside from: 'This is a sword obviously, but it conjures lightning. OH MY GOD, BLACK MAGIC! DESTROY IT'


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## Winston (Jan 9, 2016)

Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> For extensive enough damage to have happened to reset society... Knowledge must have somehow been destroyed. The survivors must have been poorly educated or this knowledge somehow lost because of the events. If that much damage was really caused and so few humans survived, any equipment would be completely destroyed or in disrepair...



The main issue is de-population.  Without a certain "critical mass", there can be no specialization that allows our advanced technology.

In a typical collapse scenario, within a few years it would take half the population to grow food for the world, due to the lack advance agricultural machines and chemicals.  The remaining folks build and maintain infrastructure (by hand) or provide defence.

There may be small pockets "raging against the darkness".  But their impact on the world, as a whole, would be negligible.  Knowledge would exist, and be passed on  to the few that had the luck / luxury to benefit from it.


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## Rojack79 (Jan 10, 2016)

Well you guys seem to get the concept of the story. So i will leave you with this. The world in my story gets destroyed by a combanation of disasters. Theres an alien invasion of the biological kind, a world wide emp of the nuclear kind, a machine revolt, and a singalerity event. I am sure that all of this back to back is enough to drive humanity into the ground.

So is everyone satisfied with the way i'm going to destroy the world?


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## Bishop (Jan 10, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Well you guys seem to get the concept of the story. So i will leave you with this. The world in my story gets destroyed by a combanation of disasters. Theres an alien invasion of the biological kind, a world wide emp of the nuclear kind, a machine revolt, and a singalerity event. I am sure that all of this back to back is enough to drive humanity into the ground.
> 
> So is everyone satisfied with the way i'm going to destroy the world?



I'm worried most about the singularity event. Mostly because if a singularity is created large enough to have global effects, there simply wouldn't be a planet anymore. The next thing is that it all seems like waaay too much. You're asking readers to suspend disbelief that has: A nuclear holocaust, aliens landing, AI uprising (which would also imply that some form of technology plays a major role, and implies lasting intelligence at least in an electronic form), and some form of electromagnetic pulse--which I fear you're depending on film knowledge for. EMPs are not quite what movies and video games claim them to be, I'd research that heavily. At the end of the day, though, that's asking an audience to tolerate a lot, and it doesn't leave much room for the actual plot. The reader will be too busy trying to fathom the magnitude of each of these things individually, instead of actually following the story itself.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Jan 10, 2016)

I'll come back and agree with Bishop. 

One thing they tell newer writers is to try and simplify. It helps make your stories easier to write.Plenty of stories have said that they eventually resorted to nuclear weapons against alien invasions, which of course devastated the world... that's been said and done.You can include the fact that they had advanced A.I., but to say they ALSO had a part in the end of the world does seem like a liiiiiitle too much. 

An emp strong enough to have a worldwide effect might have at least some impact on biological creatures...

And if the emp was worldwide, how do machines function to start a revolt against humans? 

Did it affect the aliens? If they were attacking, after the world was destroyed, did they lose interest?

Or did their ships get destroyed and now the aliens are trapped there?

It still seems worth doing, but one must have all the answers before writing the story to avoid plot holes and readers going 'what the hell?'


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## Kyle R (Jan 10, 2016)

You could simply have the characters unaware of what happened to the world in the past. All they know is that civilization exists in ruins (or in whatever state you want it to be). What happened to cause it remains a mystery. The characters might speculate but no real answers exist.

Cormac McCarthy used this approach in _The Road_.



			
				Rojack79 said:
			
		

> Now the problem with my story according to some people is that i can't have this middle age society with powered armor and futuristic weapon's and at the same time gun's are practically non existent in my future world.


You can do whatever you want with your story. You can have a universe where the sky is made of cheese and people are born old and grow younger through their lives. It's fiction. The creative freedom is yours.

Anyone who tells you that you "can't" is full of crap. My advice? Avoid listening to them and go with whatever you want to go with. :encouragement:


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## Rojack79 (Jan 10, 2016)

Bishop said:


> I'm worried most about the singularity event. Mostly because if a singularity is created large enough to have global effects, there simply wouldn't be a planet anymore.


Sorry about the confusion i was really tired when i started this thread. The Singularity i am referring to is this one. "Technological singularity, Computer Scientist, Jaron Lanier, writes, “The Singularity [involves] people dying in the flesh and being uploaded into a computer and remaining conscious”.[SUP][70][/SUP] The essence of Lanier’s argument is that in order to keep living, even after death, we would need to abandon our physical bodies and have our minds programmed into a virtual reality. This parallels the religious concept of an afterlife where one continues to exist beyond physical death.Strong artificial intelligence can also be idealized as some sort of Supreme Being. Ray Kurzweil comments that the creation of a deity may be the possible outcome of the singularity.[SUP][71]" (Taken from the Wikipedia on Technological singularity.)[/SUP]



Bishop said:


> A nuclear holocaust, aliens landing, AI uprising (which would also imply that some form of technology plays a major role, and implies lasting intelligence at least in an electronic form), and some form of electromagnetic pulse--which I fear you're depending on film knowledge for. EMPs are not quite what movies and video games claim them to be, I'd research that heavily.


I'll have you know that i have done extensive research into Nuclear Weapon's and Nuclear Reactor's since i was 14 year's old. I know quite a lot on the subject. On the topic of EMP's there's a little known fact that is you were to detonate a nuke high in the atmosphere it will disperse the EMP Effect over a wider area. In fact is a strong enough nuke was detonated over the U.S. the EMP would wipe out 3/4th of all civilian technology.


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## Rojack79 (Jan 10, 2016)

Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> An emp strong enough to have a worldwide effect might have at least some impact on biological creatures


 Actually no it wouldn't. Human being's and other creature's rely on so little electricity to function that you would need to develop a very specific weapon capable of generating a very specific kind of EMP wavelength just to scramble our brain's. At that point you might as well just build a microwave gun and melt our brain's inside there skull's.



Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> And if the emp was worldwide, how do machines function to start a revolt against humans?


 Because the machine's were military grade robot's with EMP shielding built in.



Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> Did it affect the aliens? If they were attacking, after the world was destroyed, did they lose interest? Or did their ships get destroyed and now the aliens are trapped there?


 No the alien's are not the "Invader's From Mar's!!" although i do plan on having them pop up later on in the story. No the alien invader's are a form of *extremophile* space parasite that hitched a ride to earth on comet's. People then went to go and find those comet's and then they became infected with the alien virus. This virus went undetected and most who were sick thought it was the flu. Those who had it soon recovered and they went about life as normal infecting other people as they went about there daily life.



Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> It still seems worth doing, but one must have all the answers before writing the story to avoid plot holes and readers going 'what the hell?'


 Trust me i have spent the past almost ten year's now working on this story idea.


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## Rojack79 (Jan 10, 2016)

Kyle R said:


> You could simply have the characters unaware of what happened to the world in the past. All they know is that civilization exists in ruins (or in whatever state you want it to be). What happened to cause it remains a mystery. The characters might speculate but no real answers exist.


Yes finally some one get's it! This is what i am going for in the first place. One thing that i have to point out is that i am the kind of person that doesn't like to leave thing's unexplained though. It's kind of funny i have this entire timeline almost mapped out completely from beginning to end. However i am somewhat struggling with the main character.

 I originally wanted him to be a cybernetic super soldier from the past civilization who get's frozen and wake's up in the future with no real memory's of the past. He might have a few trace memory's but for the most part he is on his own. But then i had an idea to make the MC a dude living out his life in this ruined future already and in order to make the story more low fantasy oriented i would have him living his life like a commoner and he then get's swept up in this grand quest to save the world.


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## Sam (Jan 10, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> I'll have you know that i have done extensive research into Nuclear Weapon's and Nuclear Reactor's since i was 14 year's old. I know quite a lot on the subject. On the topic of EMP's there's a little known fact that is you were to detonate a nuke high in the atmosphere it will disperse the EMP Effect over a wider area. In fact is a strong enough nuke was detonated over the U.S. the EMP would wipe out 3/4th of all civilian technology.



I very much doubt it. 

There isn't a nuclear bomb big enough, or an EMP device strong enough, to do worldwide EMP damage of the kind you're talking about. 

At most, it would wipe out all technology in the U.S., but the U.S. has not cornered the market on technological advancement. Japan is light years ahead of everyone in that department. And even if it weren't, the only way that someone launches an EMP attack of that magnitude is if they have nuclear launch capabilities and intercontinental ballistic missiles. There are only nine nations in the world that have that ability -- and only one of them is dumb enough to try what you're talking about. 

So, regrettably or otherwise, your story has a major plot hole that you need to think about.


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## Rojack79 (Jan 10, 2016)

Sam said:


> I very much doubt it.
> 
> There isn't a nuclear bomb big enough, or an EMP device strong enough, to do worldwide EMP damage of the kind you're talking about.
> 
> ...


Im not saying that one nuke destroy's the world. Im saying that one nuke has the ability to cripple the U.S. You would still need a lot of nuke's to EMP The whole world and then you would have a whole new problem with the giant hole in the ozone do to all of the nuke's going off in high orbit.


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## Sam (Jan 10, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Well you guys seem to get the concept of the story. So i will leave you with this. The world in my story gets destroyed by a combanation of disasters. Theres an alien invasion of the biological kind, a world wide emp of the nuclear kind, a machine revolt, and a singalerity event. I am sure that all of this back to back is enough to drive humanity into the ground.
> 
> So is everyone satisfied with the way i'm going to destroy the world?





Rojack79 said:


> Im not saying that one nuke destroy's the world. Im saying that one nuke has the ability to cripple the U.S. You would still need a lot of nuke's to EMP The whole world and then you would have a whole new problem with the giant hole in the ozone do to all of the nuke's going off in high orbit.



I'm just going by what you said earlier. 

Worldwide EMP damage isn't quite the same as EMP damage that cripples the U.S..

If you're saying "end of the world", you mean end of the world. Not end of one country.


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## Rojack79 (Jan 10, 2016)

Sam said:


> I'm just going by what you said earlier.
> 
> Worldwide EMP damage isn't quite the same as EMP damage that cripples the U.S..
> 
> If you're saying "end of the world", you mean end of the world. Not end of one country.


Ok yes i will give you that i could have explained that better. Basically the whole world get's nuked but only the EMP effect's are felt across the globe. Huh i just thought about something. What if i retcon it so that the bomb's are just EMP's. Not nuke's but bomb's specifically designed to send out massive burst's of EMP's all across the globe. That would cripple the entire world and leave everyone intact.


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## xDXxAscension (Jan 15, 2016)

If your going for more of a realism EMP you can find some handy info at the Edison Electric Institue. The idea of an EMP is amazing in general it's one I've been toying with for awhile.



> Myth: An EMP event that would take down the grid is “easy to perpetrate.”
> Fact: This is false. To fully understand the likelihood, we must again understand the threats.
> 
> Directed Energy Weapon: To cause significant damage to the grid, dozens of directed energy weapons would need to be built, deployed, and detonated in a coordinated attack across thecountry—without being detected or stopped by law enforcement first. While not impossible, such astrategy is significantly more complicated to plan and carry out than claimed.
> ...



EMP <--- Myths & Facts

Hopefully you figure out how to use them for your story in a way that makes sense, I know I'm still searching for a way to base one of my stories off them. Hopefully this link helps just a little.


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## Bishop (Jan 19, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Ok yes i will give you that i could have explained that better. Basically the whole world get's nuked but only the EMP effect's are felt across the globe. Huh i just thought about something. What if i retcon it so that the bomb's are just EMP's. Not nuke's but bomb's specifically designed to send out massive burst's of EMP's all across the globe. That would cripple the entire world and leave everyone intact.



Even high-orbit nukes that cause lasting EMP damage are easily repaired at our current technology level. Sure, you might shut down a city grid for a while, but it's not permanent.

Do some research on the Starfish Prime test in 1962. It knocked out electronics in Kauai, but it was repaired. Though, admittedly the geological location played a role in the test, making it less of a problem than it could be over the continental US due to the Earth's magnetic field. EMPs are, at worst, a temporary problem. Even on a global scale, let's say every electronic device on the Earth stops working... People will still have the knowledge to fix it. Frankly, it's not that hard, and there's a LOT of electrical engineers in the world. Plus, even with the electronic devices disabled, the physical item still exists. With a little experience and intelligence, the broken devices can be reverse engineered to be rebuilt with working components.


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## Winston (Jan 19, 2016)

Bishop said:


> Even high-orbit nukes that cause lasting EMP damage are easily repaired at our current technology level. Sure, you might shut down a city grid *for a while*, but it's not permanent....



We don't know for sure how bad a properly executed EMP attack would be today.  In a "best case scenario", a limited geographic area would lose most of it's ground transportation, communication, and finance for a limited time.  Let's stipulate two to four weeks.  And the area would be larger than a city.  More like a state. We'd have to clear roads of dead cars / trucks, repair substations, cell towers, ATMs, grocery register scanner...  Easily repaired.  Sure.  Quickly?  Just gow many qualified repair people are in the entire United States?

A more likely attack would destroy most modern electronics within a large geographic area.  It would take years to repair the damage.  

http://empcommission.org/docs/empc_exec_rpt.pdf

In the "best case" scenario, "only" tens to hundreds of thousands would die from starvation, violence and the temporary lack of medical care.  With infrastructure crippled past a certain point, millions would die before order was restored.  IF it was restored.

Again, I cite "critical mass".  A certain number of first responders and emergency workers (power company) will stop showing up to work.  Their families are scared, starving and performing their work becomes more hazardous each day.  It doesn't matter if it's an EMP, plague or cyber-war our infrastructure will crumble because there will not be enough people left to maintain it.  Those able to maintain it will be pre-occupied just trying to stay alive.

We've been a tech-bubble for the last couple of hundred years.  The Malthusian Principle will once again assert itself.  The bubble is too fragile.  Our society is too thinly stretched.  It's far too easy to prick, and pop.


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## Tettsuo (Jan 19, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> So apparently my book's future society's are not realistic. For those joining me from the other thread let's just get down to business. So My story take's place in a future world were the entire world has been reduced to ruble and *society has regressed back to the middle age's*. Now the problem with my story according to some people is that i can't have this middle age society with *powered armor and futuristic weapon's and at the same time gun's are practically non existent in my future world*. Now i have stated that this advanced technology is from the previous era and the people of the middle age's era don't have a way of using most of this technology because they don't have electricity.
> 
> Now one thing i am trying to clarify is this. If the world as a whole is destroyed to the extent that humanity has to regress back to the "Dark Age's" and there is no more knowledge of how to make or use certain piece's of modern/futuristic equipment is it wrong to have said equipment in the story?


Your world can't have futuristic weapons but also be stuck in the middle ages.  That's a oxymoron.

You can have a specific group or society that retained technological advances and refuse to share with those stuck in the middle ages, but that still means that world isn't in the middle ages.

Maybe it's just semantics?


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## Rojack79 (Feb 9, 2016)

It's just semantics. The world has been "reset" to a middle ages life style. There are king's and kingdom's fighting over land and resources which includes all of the remnents of lost technology left over after the fall of civilization. So in a sence yes you can have a middle age society in a high tech sci fi world. You just have to get the time line fixed first, then go from there.


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## Terry D (Feb 9, 2016)

Why explain what happened? Isn't your story going to be about what happens after what happened? If such an event did take place, most people affected by it wouldn't know what happened anyway. In S.M. Stirling's very successful, The Change, series (which begins with _Dies the Fire_), He never goes into detail what happened to make all electricity, fuels, and explosives useless. It just happened one day and suddenly technology was gone.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 9, 2016)

In all honesty i would love to just leave things blank but for some stupid reason my brain just wont let it be blank. It has to come up with some supposed logical reason for the world going to hell in a handbasket. It's juat one of the many things i have to deal with on a day to day basis.


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## Tettsuo (Feb 9, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> It's just semantics. The world has been "reset" to a middle ages life style. There are king's and kingdom's fighting over land and resources which includes all of the remnents of lost technology left over after the fall of civilization. So in a sence yes you can have a middle age society in a high tech sci fi world. You just have to get the time line fixed first, then go from there.


I disagree.

It's not high tech if it's middle ages life-style.  If you're going to drop that in a story, you have to fully explain why it exists.  Is it some secret religious order that's hording knowledge and only giving enough technology to the masses to keep them fighting and obedient to them?  Is it some kind of corporation that makes certain to sell to both sides but makes it impossible for people to tinker with their tech?

*Something is needed to explain that advance tech exists but no one is using it to improve the lives of common folk.*


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## Terry D (Feb 9, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> In all honesty i would love to just leave things blank but for some stupid reason my brain just wont let it be blank. It has to come up with some supposed logical reason for the world going to hell in a handbasket. It's juat one of the many things i have to deal with on a day to day basis.



You can know what it was, if you need to, but you don't have to use it. Cormac McCarthy's, The Road, never tells the reader what happened. If you are looking for a _logical _reason for society to revert to a Medieval condition without a complete technological wipe-out, you probably aren't going to find one.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 9, 2016)

Terry D said:


> You can know what it was, if you need to, but you don't have to use it. Cormac McCarthy's, The Road, never tells the reader what happened. If you are looking for a _logical _reason for society to revert to a Medieval condition without a complete technological wipe-out, you probably aren't going to find one.



You know that makes a lot of sence. Ya i think i'll just do that.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 9, 2016)

Tettsuo said:


> *Something is needed to explain that advance tech exists but no one is using it to improve the lives of common folk.*



It's post apocalyptic fiction. The very definition of post apocalyps is a story set after the apocalyptic event. The theme of most story's often involve pre civilization beeing forgotten or mythologized. Post Apocalyptic storys often take place in a non-technological future world or a world were only scattered remnents of society and technology remain. By that very definition my story would work. Because my story takes place in a world were the earth was destroyed by several apocalyptic events. I plan on writting books about the events surrounding the end of the world.


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## Bishop (Feb 9, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> It's post apocalyptic fiction. The very definition of post apocalyps is a story set after the apocalyptic event. The theme of most story's often involve pre civilization beeing forgotten or mythologized. Post Apocalyptic storys often take place in a non-technological future world or a world were only scattered remnents of society and technology remain. By that very definition my story would work. Because my story takes place in a world were the earth was destroyed by several apocalyptic events. I plan on writting books about the events surrounding the end of the world.



You ought to read more apocalyptic fiction. The state of the world is in a totally unorganized state in most cases. If they're able to organize enough to ordain a king, it only makes sense that they would say "hey what about... you know, democracy?" Because even after the apocalypse, the knowledge of what that is would remain. People who lived through the event (and there'd have to be SOME, otherwise there wouldn't be any more humans LATER) would know, and tell their children about the days before, and it would pass along as cherished knowledge. So if they are at a point where people are organizing under some form of national banner, it only makes sense that there would be a demand for a more progressive system. That's the logic you're fighting against. And the more you try to explain it, the worse it goes. The best apocalyptic fictions never go into the reason for the end, and most of the power is consolidated in despotic groups who live out of desperation and thrive by preying on the weaker. But remember, this is also in societies that have almost no remaining technology. If your world has plasma swords and power armor, there's going to be a universal call for that technology to be engineered for the betterment of the people.


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## Ultraroel (Feb 10, 2016)

Depends..

IF during the apocalypse most of current knowledge has been lost and cannot be applied. You can see that as "mythical and infamous" tehcnnology that is supposed to have destroyed the world. 
It allows you to explain new kinds of technology that historically didnt make sense, but now it should be enough. Also.. you can use older values like democracy etc to be the cause of the apocalyose, hence this system is ignored.. I mean.. democracy and capitalism is about money and power in the end. This can cause enough strive, combined with dangerous technology to cause an unintended apocalyse.


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## UtopiasCult (Feb 10, 2016)

You seem to be bouncing all over the place. EMP wipes out technology, post-apocalyptic, middle ages, 21st century technology. 

First you are aware that civilization can come crashing down through far simpler means than itchy trigger fingers and big nuclear bombs yes? I don't believe a nuke started the Depression. And if nuclear bombs destroyed ancient civilizations then they were far more advanced than we'd like to believe. 

There are 101 nuclear post-apocalyptic books out there. What's going to make yours different? 21st century / advanced technology - hardly. The game / books Hellgate London runs to a similar theme, alas demons are to blame, and they have high powered super technology that is "medieval" in design. And that's just one example that comes immediately to mind. 


You keep saying "advanced" technology. Big deal. If civilization collapsed average city goer who relies on technology, cars, etc. if they can't adapt very quickly is pretty much a dead duck anyways. 

Example, know how hunt [no, not ATVs by foot] and how to dress a deer carcass? Know how to tend to a cow that has expelled her uterus / prolapse as what occasionally happens after birth without screaming as if someone is being murdered? How about tending to a horse, goat or sheep with hoof rot without medicines? Is that a resounding no to all three - I can safely say yes to two of those three and the third I have basic training / knowledge in. 


Most city slickers have no real skills to survive a post-collapse world and once the bullets run out there's no way of forcing others to help them. Remember there are many remote cultures who have rarely if ever seen a car, yet alone a cell phone, who have survived that way for centuries and they will _*keep*_ surviving that way for centuries long after the world collapses. Advanced technology is _*nothing*_ "special" or do you seriously think our forefathers alternated between sitting around the fire scratching their arses, guzzling beer and eating magic mushrooms, or raiding villages screaming like lunatics. Hahaha - very funny if you do. 



Then we get advanced technology - are they supposed to drive cars / dune buggies rather than ride horse & carriage. To begin with unrealistic - what are they using for fuel? Animal poop? Corn? Ha - civilization collapses and we go back to "medieval" era, we'll barely have enough food to cram in our own mouths yet alone waste on car fuel. Solar power - sure, see any solar cars cruising the street now? Electric - where's the plugs? Advanced technology - guns, okay, are we using rocks for bullets? Dried guano for explosive powder?  


How far back are you past civilization collapses? 10 years, 50 years, 200 years? How long do you think a modern subdivision house, oftentimes made through the cheapest material on the market, would last without constant maintenance - 2 years, 5 years, 10 if you're lucky. Ever seen an old car found in garages - oftentimes, without maintenance, they're rotted through so absolutely useless without the technology / skill to repair them. 


I'd suggest googling pre-modern history, technology and civilizations. Our forefathers were not stupid, some of their technology we can't even mirror today, and unless you go all the way back to the caveman eras they didn't huddle around covered in bear skins. And some very interesting & very advanced technology [given what they had to use / the time frame] came out around the "barbaric" medieval era. Similarly, outside of aliens landing, saying hello, and doing it for us how'd ancient civilizations do Stonehenge; or more importantly, things like the Pumapunku complex. 

I'd also suggest googling just what happens if the world stops. There are numerous grain, corn, etc. fields that _*only*_ exist because they are irrigated - no civilization, no irrigation, no food. 

I'd finally suggest looking up some bad events in modern human history to get a feel of what happens in isolated events and just how humans react. Hurricane Katrina for example, a large number of dogs were left behind - and semi to outright feral dogs still are a problem there. Do you think Fido will wag his tail and ask to be patted after 50 odd years of running wild in the ruins of some city when your MC comes visiting? 

The Ferguson riots, LA riots, etc. ever watched or googled those? I suggest you do. "Sh&t hit the fan" and a large number of people went absolutely ape - breaking & entering, violent crimes, theft, burning of properties, etc., etc., etc., etc. Now magnify that globally and imagine what the end result would be.

Your post-collapse world is most likely not going to be led by Hawkings and similarly very educated ilk - it is going to be overrun and dominated by those that have muscle and aren't afraid of using it, or any means necessary, to survive. As mentioned post-collapse is going to be very chaotic. 


Mind it is your book to do as you like. However, realism is a much better read than saying a dragon on a hamster wheel is what makes Big Ben turn. I am well read, I enjoy reading books such as this, but reading the back and forth - up and down - bouncing around ... I wouldn't read this book.


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## ShamelessBrute (Feb 10, 2016)

don't be an fng, don't be an fng...okay, first post here we go.

I think I get were your going with the events. but I think your MC should be human, maybe cybernetic upgrades, but at his core he should be human.  As for technology in the dark ages, take on more of D & D fantasy, replace the magic with tech, like what  Arthur C. Clark said about magic being just unknown science.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

Ultraroel said:


> Depends..
> 
> IF during the apocalypse most of current knowledge has been lost and cannot be applied. You can see that as "mythical and infamous" tehcnnology that is supposed to have destroyed the world.
> It allows you to explain new kinds of technology that historically didnt make sense, but now it should be enough. Also.. you can use older values like democracy etc to be the cause of the apocalyose, hence this system is ignored.. I mean.. democracy and capitalism is about money and power in the end. This can cause enough strive, combined with dangerous technology to cause an unintended apocalyse.



Thank you for your constructive feedback.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

ShamelessBrute said:


> don't be an fng, don't be an fng...okay, first post here we go.
> 
> I think I get were your going with the events. but I think your MC should be human, maybe cybernetic upgrades, but at his core he should be human.  As for technology in the dark ages, take on more of D & D fantasy, replace the magic with tech, like what  Arthur C. Clark said about magic being just unknown science.



Thank you. You nailed my ideas right on the head. And yes he is going to be a cyborg who at his core is still a human being.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

Ok let me fix all of this. I will give you guys the time line for my book and you guys can mull that over. But i have to go to work right now so i shall see you all after i get off at around 3-4.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

Ok so i know it not 3 or 4 but im on break. So heres the time line.

2024: Mission to mars a success.

2050: First test of exsperimental space drive a success. 

2054: Deep space mining comences.

2060: The crew of the S.E.V. Artemis begins there first deep mining opperation. Several months in they make a monumental discovery. They find dorment alien life forms in hollow asteroids. They keep a few samples for study back on earth. Finaly they embark on there trip back to earth. Several months later they are half way home when they intercept a wayword space brodcast of an unidentified signal. That signal turns out to be a hostile A.I. which hijack there ship and try's to take it to a different star system. Long story short the alien escapes abors the ship. The crew is trying to purge the ship of both viruses. Only 4 crewembers are alive in cryo stasis, when there ship crashes on earth. Everything is taken by the government and the whole thing gets swept under the rug.

There Is more but i must get back to work.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

Ok. So lets fast track 34 years into the future. 

2094: Dr. Kiles, one of the survivers of the artmis disaster is working for the military to find ways of weaponizing both the bological and computer virus's that infected the artemis. Now while he is making headway with his exsperiments a terrorist group attacks the militery instalation were he is working and get there hands on prototype samples of both virus's. Then the group unleash's them upon the world.

Next we go 62 years into the future.

2156: Dr. Kiles is still alive thanks to both biological and cybernetic enhancements. The last 3 surviver's of the artemis disaster are still alive as well being used for exsperimentation. Both types of virus have now mutated. The biological virus has infected half of all of the life forms on the planit. The A.I. virus has been buisy useing Dr. Kiles to make a robot army, supposedly so it can eradicate the mutants infected with the alien virus. Now Dr. Kiles has everything he needs to take over the world. He sets his plan into motion. But there are several snags along the way. The first part of the Dr.s plan is to seize control of all comunications. With the A.I.s help this is acomplished. He then takes control of all militery instalations in the world. His robot army succeeds in this task. But then the first snag comes into play. The A.I. gos berzerk takeing control of everything high tech and technological in nature. The second snag is a group of super soldiers tasked with stopping the Dr from carrying out his plans. This group manages to foil the A.I.'s attemps to high jack a kill sat erray but the Dr. activates a fail safe of his. Using stratigicaly placed E.M.P weaponry he cripples the entire world rendering all electronic's useless. With nothing standing in there way the earths mutant population luanch's an all out assult on humanity and the robots. The world leaders use there last ditch effert to try and erradicate both sides of warring faction's. They enictiate a world wide nuclear strike to purge the world of both enemys to humanity. At the same time that all of this is happening the mars colonys are banding together to survive having lost all contact with planit earth.


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## Tettsuo (Feb 10, 2016)

I don't think you're understanding what I'm addressing.

The people in the middle ages lived like they did because they didn't have the technology and knowledge to live any other way.  As soon as technology and knowledge advanced, society changed from that stage to the next - The Industrial Revolution (steampunk starts here).

Maybe you should study up on what The Middle Ages were actually like.  Film and some books often shy away from the horror of living in those times.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

Tettsuo said:


> I don't think you're understanding what I'm addressing.
> 
> The people in the middle ages lived like they did because they didn't have the technology and knowledge to live any other way.  As soon as technology and knowledge advanced, society changed from that stage to the next - The Industrial Revolution (steampunk starts here).
> 
> Maybe you should study up on what The Middle Ages were actually like.  Film and some books often shy away from the horror of living in those times.


Firstly i know what the middle ages were like. As I've said countless times I've been studying everything i need for this book series's for the last 9 years and the history of the world was one of those thing's especially the history of medieval Europe. Now back to my time line. 

The reason there is know knowledge of the old world is because of another A.I. However i have to back track in the time line a little. 

2049: A small group of researchers are conducting experiments with an advanced artificial intelligence they created. This A.I.'s main directive is to learn and keep learning. Fast foreword to 2156.

2156: This A.A.I. Is now smarter than all of humanity. Instead of using this knowledge to doom humanity it instead try's to save humanity. It enact's it's own plan to save humanity by backing up all of it's knowledge in one central location off the grid from any were else. Then as a back up it starts collecting people so that it can scan there brain's and upload them into a virtual reality thus keeping them safe from any harm. Then as the E.M.P attack get triggered all electronic device's go dead and things go on as planned. The Collective(that's going to be the name for this benevolent A.I.) is safe along with all of the people that were uploaded into it and all of humanity's knowledge. So now the bomb's drop and the world is in ruin's. Some people go into hiding underground to escape the nuke's. Other's aren't so lucky. with the world now thoroughly destroyed the next leap in the time line will bring us 500 years in the future.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

Ok so now its the year 2660....

2660: In this day and age there are only scattered remnant's of technology left from before the end. All knowledge was erased from all electronic's and all remaining knowledge was purged by the nuclear fire and the virus having survived the fallout ravaged what few human's remained both above ground and below. Mankind is no longer the dominate specie's on the earth. There are monster's of flesh and blood and those of metal. There are several different faction's fighting to survive in the wasteland's. From the east come the Cyber Lord's and there robot army's. From the west come the vast array of Mutant horde's. Humanity is stuck in the middle, scrapping together whatever remnant's of technology they can to fight back against all odd's. 

Now one of the faction's that exist in this book is the S.O.S. or the Society of Science. They are the most technologically advanced faction in this setting but they still have issue's with trying to find power source's for all of there equipment. There are several other faction in this world but i won't go into detail about them for now. 

So there you have it most technology is destroyed in the nuclear fire, having been erased before hand by strategically placed E.M.P. attack's and every other shred of data was destroyed by the rogue A.I. The only knowledge left is in the hand's of an A.I. that is hiding somewhere on the earth completely out of reach from anyone else. So no more knowledge + no more technology + the whole apocalypse thing = the whole world having to reset itself to a medieval way of life.


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## ShamelessBrute (Feb 10, 2016)

Tettsuo watch Stargate SG1, they studied the ancient civilizations, and all Gaul'd controlled planets where stuck in the middle age life style...p.s. I think your way to stuck on that term vs progressing to other things.

So...Don't make the dr. the main guy in the attempt to rebuild the world, Don't get me wrong he would have great motivation, It'd be one of redemption, please ignore that if your gonna go start to finish, cause that could be an amazing character ark, plus he's biologically & technically upgraded, i think it's safe to assume you could come up with some techy jargon explaining his long lifespan. another idea...cause If I read that right, you have two A.I. maybe more. the one they encounter in space I think should be like a scientist version, like it was their studying the parasite, and you got an explanation right their why it attacked, It knew the parasite would be a disaster if it made it's way back to earth. Sorry if i sound like a dick with this comment but please don't give a trope reason the a.i. went "crazy". The only time I ever saw the machine have a good reason to take control was the Matrix, seriously, they were the good guys...think about it.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 10, 2016)

ShamelessBrute said:


> Tettsuo watch Stargate SG1, they studied the ancient civilizations, and all Gaul'd controlled planets where stuck in the middle age life style...p.s. I think your way to stuck on that term vs progressing to other things.


You know now that i think about it that is true. The Gaul'd did keep every one they controlled in a medieval stasis. Makes sense though. Don't want the enemy to advance to your level of tech and be able to fight back.



ShamelessBrute said:


> So...Don't make the dr. the main guy in the attempt to rebuild the world, Don't get me wrong he would have great motivation, It'd be one of redemption, please ignore that if your gonna go start to finish, cause that could be an amazing character ark, plus he's biologically & technically upgraded, i think it's safe to assume you could come up with some techy jargon explaining his long lifespan.


Well the dr's goal is to become the ruler of the earth. After the apocalypse he is the only being smart enough and has all of the tech necessary to rebuild the world.



ShamelessBrute said:


> another idea...cause If I read that right, you have two A.I. maybe more. the one they encounter in space I think should be like a scientist version, like it was their studying the parasite, and you got an explanation right their why it attacked, It knew the parasite would be a disaster if it made it's way back to earth.


Well the whole point of that Space A.I. is that it act's just like a biological virus but in computer form. It finds other electronic organism's and infect's them. However when it gets to earth it get trapped by the dr and his college's so they can study it. That virus is the reason the Robot army revolt's. The Doc made it to were they only respond to his command's and have made it almost impossible to for them to disobey him or grow in there knowledge thus making to were they can't grow beyond there programming. 



ShamelessBrute said:


> Sorry if i sound like a dick with this comment but please don't give a trope reason the a.i. went "crazy". The only time I ever saw the machine have a good reason to take control was the Matrix, seriously, they were the good guys...think about it.


Are you talking about the Alien A.I. or the second man made one? Because the Man made one is not going to go crazy with power. It is actually trying to save the human race. Granted it's doing it in it's own way but no it will not go crazy and try to kill or enslave everyone.


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## Ultraroel (Feb 11, 2016)

Wow.. All these objections. 

If he has a world where democracy and the "old" technology caused an apocalypse, there is a solid reason why they would NOT proceed like they did back then.
Isn't the idea of history to learn from it and prevent repetitive action.

So a new community with new technology isn't that weird. 

I would say restarting the old age as was, even if it turned out not to work would be stupid and too easy.


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## Tettsuo (Feb 11, 2016)

ShamelessBrute said:


> Tettsuo watch Stargate SG1, they studied the ancient civilizations, and all Gaul'd controlled planets where stuck in the middle age life style...p.s. I think your way to stuck on that term vs progressing to other things.


Please note, that I stated quite plainly it can be explained... you just have to explain it.

The original poster hasn't explained why the people with advance tech are still living in the middle ages.  You can live an agrarian lifestyle and have still have access to advanced technology.  But, that's not what the middle ages were about.  So long as it's well explained (like in Stargate, where the Gaul'd never shared their tech) the story won't come across as unbelievable.

It's all explained in Stargate.  I'm suggesting that the original poster simply explain why they're choosing such a difficult lifestyle.  And understand, life was extremely difficult for many just a hundred years ago!  We're talking about a regression of 10x that.

Simply have a good explanation and it'll all gel fine.


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## Bishop (Feb 11, 2016)

I'm more curious as to why the story needs all of that backstory. Unless every element of that is referenced and explained in the novel (which I highly recommend NOT doing), it's all extraneous information, and--frankly--overkill. It's highly confusing, and because it all leads to an apocalyptic scenario, it can't have much direct bearing on the main characters of the story as a whole. After all, characters in The Road didn't even need to mention the cause of the world's end. All that mattered to them was that it had, because that was the only element that affected their story.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

Bishop said:


> I'm more curious as to why the story needs all of that backstory. Unless every element of that is referenced and explained in the novel (which I highly recommend NOT doing), it's all extraneous information, and--frankly--overkill. It's highly confusing, and because it all leads to an apocalyptic scenario, it can't have much direct bearing on the main characters of the story as a whole. After all, characters in The Road didn't even need to mention the cause of the world's end. All that mattered to them was that it had, because that was the only element that affected their story.



The reason i have all of this back story is for the main series set further in the future. All of this will effect the way the story unfolds and all of it will be mentiond but not all at once. Also i plan on writting a few books about how the world came to an end and a few books set imidietly afterwords that exsplain how the mutants came to be.


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## Bishop (Feb 12, 2016)

Since I clearly can't convince you to take a second, critical eye to your proposed idea, then I'll just say best of luck.


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## Mistique (Feb 12, 2016)

Maybe this is me not getting it, but if their world was destroyed that badly, why would that mean they would regress to the dark ages? Their minds weren't distroyed, were they? So they'd' still have the same knowledge they always did, so what would stop them rebuilding their world? It would be a hell of a job, but why regress?


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

Mistique said:


> Maybe this is me not getting it, but if their world was destroyed that badly, why would that mean they would regress to the dark ages? Their minds weren't distroyed, were they? So they'd' still have the same knowledge they always did, so what would stop them rebuilding their world? It would be a hell of a job, but why regress?



They would regress back to more of a medieval way of life for several reason's. They no longer have any knowledge of how to build anything from the world before. Think of it like this, the average person now a day's has no knowledge of how to build a house. That is a carpenter's skill. Now if you were to take everyone with skills like that and other skilled people like solder's, doctor's, scientist's, and Emergency Medical personnel and compere that number to the amount of average Joe's the skilled specialist's are vastly outnumbered.

 Now tack on the fact that in the future i would think that practically everything will be digital by then, and you get a recipe for disaster. The emp's would wipe out all technology, that would mean that all of there knowledge just went down the drain. Add on to that that the few remaining human's that went under ground to live had to stay there thanks to the nuke's and the people now have to live under ground for century's. People will adapt to survive very quickly, and this mean's regressing back to a less technologically advanced way of living. I mean really were are people going to get the power to use half of the tech we have now under ground, let alone super advanced tech like powered armor, smart gun's and several other sci-fi staple's. So rather than bother to scrounge together the resource's trying to live life like it used to be why not just go back to a much simpler way of living, one that doe's not require everyone living in the fallout shelter to be a rocket scientist. Hope this clear's things up.


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## Mistique (Feb 12, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> They would regress back to more of a medieval way of life for several reason's. They no longer have any knowledge of how to build anything from the world before. Think of it like this, the average person now a day's has no knowledge of how to build a house. That is a carpenter's skill. Now if you were to take everyone with skills like that and other skilled people like solder's, doctor's, scientist's, and Emergency Medical personnel and compere that number to the amount of average Joe's the skilled specialist's are vastly outnumbered.



You are right, the average joe would not know how to build a house, but I would imagine that survivors would find each other and join skills so that the Carpenter would help build houses, and the doctor would help them when they would be sick, and so on.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

Mistique said:


> You are right, the average joe would not know how to build a house, but I would imagine that survivors would find each other and join skills so that the Carpenter would help build houses, and the doctor would help them when they would be sick, and so on.


Normally yes. But in the chaos of trying to get to a fallout shelter in order to survive a nuclear attack the odd of the perfect group of people getting to the same spot are slim to none. And lets say you have the right people to rebuild society all in one fallout shelter. They would have to wait for a few century's underground before they could use any of there skill's. So if those skill's were considered pivotal to survive then i could see them getting passed down from generation to generation. But the average person can make a simple shelter from stick's and cloth. I say why take the time to teach someone how to build a house which would take year's of training when you can teach someone how to build a little portable shelter in minute's. It's just easier to do.


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## Mistique (Feb 12, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Normally yes. But in the chaos of trying to get to a fallout shelter in order to survive a nuclear attack the odd of the perfect group of people getting to the same spot are slim to none. And lets say you have the right people to rebuild society all in one fallout shelter. They would have to wait for a few century's underground before they could use any of there skill's. So if those skill's were considered pivotal to survive then i could see them getting passed down from generation to generation. But the average person can make a simple shelter from stick's and cloth. I say why take the time to teach someone how to build a house which would take year's of training when you can teach someone how to build a little portable shelter in minute's. It's just easier to do.



That is just house building though, our society has knowledge about a lot more than just how to build a house.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

In a situation like this it's better to learn how to survive first. Then when the time is right people will figure out how to rebuild society. And if in all that time in the fallout shelter's people have been living under 1 person's or 1 family's rule then vwhala you have the making's of a feudal society like the one in the book.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

Mistique said:


> That is just house building though, our society has knowledge about a lot more than just how to build a house.


Yes that is true but how do we get our knowledge to begin with?


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## Bishop (Feb 12, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Yes that is true but how do we get our knowledge to begin with?



From our elders. Schools are just structures of the age-old parental dichotomy of transferring knowledge to the next generation. Without the building, knowledge can still be passed down. Less efficiently, yes, but it WOULD happen.

The survivors wouldn't say "aw shucks, the world nearly ended. Well, we better go back to worshiping a king."


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## Tettsuo (Feb 12, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Yes that is true but how do we get our knowledge to begin with?


Don't they have access to advanced technology?  Why wouldn't that make the entire process of rebuilding easier and very possible?


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

Bishop said:


> From our elders. Schools are just structures of the age-old parental dichotomy of transferring knowledge to the next generation. Without the building, knowledge can still be passed down. Less efficiently, yes, but it WOULD happen.
> 
> The survivors wouldn't say "aw shucks, the world nearly ended. Well, we better go back to worshiping a king."


You do no that king's came about for very different reason's right? There's nothing stopping someone in one of these fallout shelter's from becoming a king by any mean's. That being said if the people in the shelter's thought it would be a good idea to have a single ruler I.E. a king then having king's in this future is entirely possible even having it to were the king passes his thrown on to his next of kin when he die's. Now i have explained in earlier post's how the world ended up this way so please explain how come my version of the future cannot come to pass.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

Tettsuo said:


> Don't they have access to advanced technology?  Why wouldn't that make the entire process of rebuilding easier and very possible?


Because no one has the know how or the recourse's to use the advanced technology.

P.S. Let me rephrase that. Not everyone has the know how to use it. And resource's are very limited. So the tech is still there but the mean's of using it en,mass is not.


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## Tettsuo (Feb 12, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Now the problem with my story according to some people is that i can't have this *middle age society with powered armor and futuristic weapon's *and at the same time gun's are practically non existent in my future world. Now i have stated that this advanced technology is from the previous era and the people of the middle age's era don't have a way of using most of this technology because they don't have electricity.
> 
> Now one thing i am trying to clarify is this. If the world as a whole is destroyed to the extent that humanity has to regress back to the "Dark Age's" and there is no more knowledge of how to make or use certain piece's of modern/futuristic equipment is it wrong to have said equipment in the story?





Rojack79 said:


> Because *no one has the know how or the recourse's to use the advanced technology*.



Then, by your own admission, the logic falls apart.

If they can't use it, they don't have it.  It's just junk from a bygone era.

If they can use it, the story makes no sense.

That's my entire point.


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## bdcharles (Feb 12, 2016)

You could make the discovery of how this equipment came to be a mystery subplot of your story. Perhaps a rich vein of handwavium was unearthed, or perhaps some other society infiltrated yours and spread this knowledge. Maybe this all takes place millennia in the future, long after the fall, and some bright young nu-alchemist has happened on the secrets of the blended polymers or something, granting him godlike powers with gratuitously nonbiodegradable technology we ourselves may be familiar with and putting to the test Clarke's Third Law. It can be the subject of your next book. 

I love a bit of intelligently mixed-and-matched styles and technologies. Don't let yourself be overadvised by the naysayers. It's your vision and you are committed to it, so find a way - a convincing way - to make it work.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

bdcharles said:


> You could make the discovery of how this equipment came to be a mystery subplot of your story. Perhaps a rich vein of handwavium was unearthed, or perhaps some other society infiltrated yours and spread this knowledge. Maybe this all takes place millennia in the future, long after the fall, and some bright young alchemist has happened on the secrets of the blended polymers or something, granting him godlike powers with technology we ourselves may be familiar with and putting to the test Clarke's Third Law. It can be the subject of your next book.


That's actually a subplot in the first book. I don't quite know how long but some time after the end of the world humanity come's out of there shelter's and begin's to rebuild society, slowly at first. They establish kingdom's all across the U.S. and they have these huge walled in castle city's called citadel's built throughout there kingdom's. The Wasteland's outside of the Citadel's are mostly barren waste's with band's of Mutant's and rogue A.I.'s running around trying to survive. Some go out into the waste's to the old city's to scavenge for ancient tech. Most of it is useless but sometime's the scavenger's can get real lucky and find something still functional like a suit of powered armor or a working energy weapon. These are usually taken to the armory within the Citadel for safe keeping and so they can be studied. Now there are going to be some individual's that might know how to operate some of this tech but that knowledge is not going to be wide spread among the public. Take the main character for instance. He's ether going to be a cybernetic super soldier from the 21st century that's been frozen up until he wake's up in the new world or he's going to be a knight of the holy order(A faction within the story) that can use most of the equipment because of his training as a knight. Either way he know's how to use most of the left over equipment but he still will have to use it sparingly. 



bdcharles said:


> I love a bit of intelligently mixed-and-matched styles and technologies. Don't let yourself be overadvised by the naysayers. It's your vision and you are committed to it, so find a way - a convincing way - to make it work.


Thank you and i will do my best.


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## Bishop (Feb 12, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> You do no that king's came about for very different reason's right? There's nothing stopping someone in one of these fallout shelter's from becoming a king by any mean's. That being said if the people in the shelter's thought it would be a good idea to have a single ruler I.E. a king then having king's in this future is entirely possible even having it to were the king passes his thrown on to his next of kin when he die's. Now i have explained in earlier post's how the world ended up this way so please explain how come my version of the future cannot come to pass.



Because if modern people go into that situation, they know that a king is as much a man as anyone else. See, when people go into a bomb shelter, they don't just suddenly decide to let one man say he's king. As a society, we don't just FORGET what happened in monarchy social structures. We know that if we give all the power to one person, that power corrupts.

So why would we suddenly say, "Okay, we're all in this shelter, but that guy over there, he's our king now, he decides how we live and die." Take a look at society today. Look at the class wars between the 1% and the 99%. In the confined space of a shelter, people would not deal with someone having the audacity to name themself king.

Or to put it another way... if YOU were in a bomb shelter, facing life there forever, would YOU suddenly allow someone to be made king over you? Someone who would have all the power, wealth, comforts, and company while you're made to serve HIS needs? I highly doubt it.


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## bdcharles (Feb 12, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> You do no that king's came about for very different reason's right? There's nothing stopping someone in one of these fallout shelter's from becoming a king by any mean's. That being said if the people in the shelter's thought it would be a good idea to have a single ruler I.E. a king then having king's in this future is entirely possible even having it to were the king passes his thrown on to his next of kin when he die's. Now i have explained in earlier post's how the world ended up this way so please explain how come my version of the future cannot come to pass.



Why not have someone seize power? You and Bishop are both right but a bid for power is quite an exciting, sexy plotline which also helps the others maintian credibility in that it's not something they would naturally go for. It adds some additional conflict too.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

Bishop said:


> Because if modern people go into that situation, they know that a king is as much a man as anyone else. See, when people go into a bomb shelter, they don't just suddenly decide to let one man say he's king. As a society, we don't just FORGET what happened in monarchy social structures. We know that if we give all the power to one person, that power corrupts.


I never said they all of a suddenly decided that one person get's to be king. In order for one person to become a king that would take a while. And yes i know Power corrupt's. But that does not mean that it corrupt's everyone.


Bishop said:


> So why would we suddenly say, "Okay, we're all in this shelter, but that guy over there, he's our king now, he decides how we live and die." Take a look at society today. Look at the class wars between the 1% and the 99%. In the confined space of a shelter, people would not deal with someone having the audacity to name themself king.


And sometime's people are crowned king by the majority of people. That can happen to someone even if they don't want to be king.


Bishop said:


> Or to put it another way... if YOU were in a bomb shelter, facing life there forever, would YOU suddenly allow someone to be made king over you? Someone who would have all the power, wealth, comforts, and company while you're made to serve HIS needs? I highly doubt it.


Honestly this statement is really unnecessary.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

bdcharles said:


> Why not have someone seize power? You and Bishop are both right but a bid for power is quite an exciting, sexy plotline which also helps the others maintian credibility in that it's not something they would naturally go for. It adds some additional conflict too.


That can happen as well. Heck that might be something that happen's quite a lot in the fallout shelter's. Have a collapse of moral discipline with a bunch of people being stuck in a relatively small space for a few century's and see who happen's to come out at the end of the long wait to reclaim the surface.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 12, 2016)

So tell me how you guy's would handle a story like this? How would you guy's destroy the world and make a post apocalyptic story?


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## bdcharles (Feb 12, 2016)

^ Think of that question as a journey of discovery that you can take, quite possibly in the form of another book or plotline.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 13, 2016)

bdcharles said:


> ^ Think of that question as a journey of discovery that you can take, quite possibly in the form of another book or plotline.



Well that was an idea that i had. Im asking them to tell me why they dont like the idea. What exactly is wrong with it? Because just saying its ilogical is not an answer. I have 2 very good reasons that say other wise.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 13, 2016)

Ok actually i have more than 2. 

1. Low Fantasy, Mundane settings: Urban, historical, After the End, or otherwise subdued and only sparsely supernatural. A clear contrast to High Fantasy's wildly superpowered setting. (Taken From TV Tropes Page, Low Fantasy.) 

2. Feudal Future, A planet has such a social structure. Often justified by having technological regression (but never further than medieval — not even to Roman times). (Taken From TV Tropes Page, Feudal Future.)

3. Days of Future Past, A setting in which societies with futuristic technology have reverted to patterns from earlier time periods (e.g., medieval Europe, feudal Japan, nineteenth-century America) while remaining at a futuristic technological level (e.g., starships, Humongous Mecha, Energy Weapons). (Taken From TV Tropes Page, Days of Future Past.)


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## ShamelessBrute (Feb 17, 2016)

I'd make the Dr. an evil tyrant that was able to live outside the shelter, spent the centuries building an alien/robo army, giving him a massive advantage over anyone who opposed him, but he tricked them into thinking he's a valuable and good king, but their is only one thing left in the world that could hurt him, make the masses rebel against him, and because i like irony, your hero was the one tasked to find and destroy it hahaha...that would be my way...side note-i'd make that apocolyptic backstory the prelude of the post apoc. book and end that with "but that is a whole nother story" but this is coming from some one that likes his prelude to be about something that happens later on in the book. i suck at preludes


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## Jack of all trades (Feb 17, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> So apparently my book's future society's are not realistic. For those joining me from the other thread let's just get down to business. So My story take's place in a future world were the entire world has been reduced to ruble and society has regressed back to the middle age's. Now the problem with my story according to some people is that i can't have this middle age society with powered armor and futuristic weapon's and at the same time gun's are practically non existent in my future world. Now i have stated that this advanced technology is from the previous era and the people of the middle age's era don't have a way of using most of this technology because they don't have electricity.
> 
> Now one thing i am trying to clarify is this. If the world as a whole is destroyed to the extent that humanity has to regress back to the "Dark Age's" and there is no more knowledge of how to make or use certain piece's of modern/futuristic equipment is it wrong to have said equipment in the story?




It is entirely possible that people would retain the knowledge of how to use certain things but have lost the knowledge of how to build or maintain those same things. That has actually been done before. Those with the knowledge of building certain items die without passing along their knowledge.

Sure, someone can study the item(s) and learn how to build or fix it, but what if everyone is too busy? Intellectually able, but without the free time or interest, the knowledge could be lost, for a time. It would probably be recovered eventually, though.

You seem to be avoiding the task of writing, replacing it with talking about writing.  Hmmm?


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## Newman (Feb 17, 2016)

Rojack79 said:


> Now one thing i am trying to clarify is this. If the world as a whole is destroyed to the extent that humanity has to regress back to the "Dark Age's" and there is no more knowledge of how to make or use certain piece's of modern/futuristic equipment is it wrong to have said equipment in the story?



You would likely (at least, it's very feasible) to have some inherited cultural knowledge as to how to use/maintain the old technology. There are examples in STAR TREK, PLANET OF THE APES.


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## Rojack79 (Feb 17, 2016)

ShamelessBrute said:


> I'd make the Dr. an evil tyrant that was able to live outside the shelter, spent the centuries building an alien/robo army, giving him a massive advantage over anyone who opposed him, but he tricked them into thinking he's a valuable and good king, but their is only one thing left in the world that could hurt him, make the masses rebel against him, and because i like irony, your hero was the one tasked to find and destroy it hahaha...that would be my way...side note-i'd make that apocolyptic backstory the prelude of the post apoc. book and end that with "but that is a whole nother story" but this is coming from some one that likes his prelude to be about something that happens later on in the book. i suck at preludes



Funny thing is my plan was to have the   dr be the main villain. He is a ruler of an army of robots and cyberneticly advanced humans. His whole goal is to rule the world as an immortal king of earth. And yes i will have a prelude to this book. But it will only cantain a snipet of the events leading up to the apocalypes.


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