# Hey everyone!



## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Greetings,

My name is Miles, and I'm pretty new to the online writing community. I've visited this site before, as well as a few others, but have only recently been granted the free time in my life to participate in any real way. I'm glad to be here, and look forward to meeting you and learning about your projects.

A little about myself: I'm 39 years old, and currently living in Philadelphia. I'm still in the process of a rather long recovery from a neck injury I sustained a few years ago--which I suppose is the reason I now have the time to "be a writer" again. I hold a bachelor's degree in writing and, over the past 15 years, have held a few professional writing titles--none of them having _any _connection whatsoever with fiction or anything creative. In the past year, I've completed a novel, and an accompanying novelette, the former of which I'm in the process of shopping among the agent ranks. Rejection letters (emails) are a normal part of most days, for me. This is not surprising; there are a million other talented writers out there, a few of whom I've had the pleasure of meeting these past several months.

At any rate, I won't blather on; I just wanted to say hello. See you around the forum!

--Miles


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## jayelle_cochran (Jun 6, 2013)

Hello Miles and welcome to WF!

Don't let the rejection letters get you down (thankfully you seem to be OK with them).  Always remember that even the best authors out there had to go through years of rejection letters before someone took a chance on them.  It's not a matter of there being better authors out there.  It's more a matter of how your manuscript, synopsis, and query letter are presented (ie. decently edited and well written) and other random factors.  Agents and publishers are very picky and sometimes seem to have some strange arbitrary guidelines they follow to determine who is in and who is out.  Unfortunately, these tend to vary from person to person and no one can tell you what each is looking for.  It's frustrating, but as I said everyone goes through tons of rejections.  

Good luck on getting your novels published and I hope your neck continues to heal well!

*hugs*
Jayelle


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks for the quick reply, Jayelle. It's good to hear from you. Agreed on all points! Yes, fortunately, I had a good mindset as I began the querying process; I'm no stranger to being one of a thousand artists competing for one slot. You sound like you've had some experience with the process. I'll be curious to hear more about your trials, and your work. At any rate, thanks again for the warm welcome!

BTW, before Philly, I lived about an hour north of San Diego, in Orange County. Smallish world, I suppose. 

Miles


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## jayelle_cochran (Jun 6, 2013)

Smaller than you think.  I'm from New York and used to have a really close friend that lived in Philly.  She or I would take the drive sometimes to see each other.    I don't know the area, but the drive wasn't as bad as you would think...even getting onto or off of Long Island.  lol

I had sent out a novel to agents a few years ago.  I didn't keep up with the queries because I decided I would self-publish instead (the decision wasn't made because of the rejections).  I learned a lot of mistakes with that novel and am doing things differently this time (and writing under a new name).  Between those experiences, and reading what others have gone through, I've learned so much!    Right now I'm working on another novel (that first one I may rewrite and re-publish sometime in the future).  I have another round of revisions before I send it to my editor.  After that, probably another bout of revisions and then it'll be ready.    I can't wait, being an indie author is far more work than I had originally thought.  Now that I'm so close to finishing I'm beyond excited.  lol

*hugs*
Jayelle


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Small, indeed! I still can't make up my mind which coast I like better. I've been trying to think of a way to drag the two a little closer together, but haven't yet come up with anything. Are you from New York city, or upstate?

That's great that you've gone the route of self-publishing--and that you've actually STARTED your second novel. I'm still planning mine (read: _procrastinating_). You know, these past couple months, I've become more convinced that self-publishing is the way to go--as you imply, regardless of agent response. I've e-published my novelette on Kindle, and will probably do the same with the novel, in the coming weeks. Have you posted any of your work anywhere on this site? I'd be curious to read a taste, if so.

Miles


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

By the way, I don't intend to plug anything in these forums, so if you would, please kindly let me know if you hear me say anything I shouldn't. Sincerely!

Miles


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## Folcro (Jun 6, 2013)

Welcome to you, Miles.

Have you tried self-publishing, particularly on the digital market? From what I hear, traditional publishing is collapsing on itself. Even when a publisher accepts you, there are many challenges to overcome. Many don't even work to market their books. And digital publishing is starting to outsell them. 

To each his own, though. I wish you luck, and will gladly help you with your works as you post them.


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## jayelle_cochran (Jun 6, 2013)

I like the West Coast better.  The people out here are less uptight and conservative and more relaxed and open minded.    When I first moved out here I would have dreams that New York was by Arizona and I could just drive to visit my family.  lol  I'm from Long Island and if you've been there then you can understand my desire to be around open minded and free spirited people.  lol

I have a suggestion when it comes to publishing your own work, as an e-book or a physical copy.  EDIT!!!  The biggest mistake most self-published authors make is putting out a book that hasn't been properly edited.  You want someone other than yourself, who has a lot of grammar, punctuation, and spelling skills, and who also has an idea of how a story should flow, sentence and paragraph structure, etc.  Hiring an editor is expensive, your average sized novel will cost about $700-$1,000 (US).  Some self-publishers get around this cost by having someone in their lives who can do it for trade.  The second thing you need is a good cover.  Even e-books are judged by their covers by readers.  A really good artist will cost you $200-@500, and again there are ways around that (I taught myself how to do photo manipulations in photoshop so I could make my own professional cover).  

Basically, you want to put out the most polished book you can if you want it to go anywhere.  Remember, our competition are traditional publishers and as such our books should rival theirs.  The idea, IMO, is to have a self-published novel that doesn't look like it's self-published.

I haven't posted much on here as far as my own works.  I did put the first three chapters of my novel on here at one point, when it was still very rough.  Before I publish, I'm going to update those posts with a more updated version of the chapters.  I have this novel to complete, another that has been started, and about 4 novels that I started years ago and want to finally finish.  Plus, I'm working on my digital art skills so I can make artist representations of the characters for my website, and putting the finishing touches on the site (taught myself HTML long ago and then more recently CSS so I could make my own professional looking webpages).  So, I don't have as much time to write something new and post it on here.  I have a few short stories in my mind that I want to put out.  Unfortunately, most of my short stories aren't appropriate for these forums.  lol

*hugs*
Jayelle

PS...there is a TOS for the site.  Basically, if you keep your language clean (nothing you wouldn't see in a G-rated children's movie), don't troll or flame others, and don't spam or advertise, then you'll be fine.  We like to keep thinks friendly around here.  When posting your work for critique it can be PG-13.  If there is strong language or adult content then put a warning in the subject.


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## PiP (Jun 6, 2013)

Hi Miles

A warm welcome to the Writing Forums 

PiP


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Good to meet you, Folcro...and thanks for the welcome! Yes, I have looked into digital publishing...e-publishing, I assume you mean. I've been quite surprised by what I've learned thus far as to the merits of this type of publishing versus traditional. More and more, online publishing is seeming like the better way to go, from _many _standpoints. I'm still reading on the issue...but have all but resigned to go that route with my novel, regardless of any interest an agent might show. We'll see though. At any rate, thanks for the insight!

Miles


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## A Scott (Jun 6, 2013)

Hey Miles.  I would suggest that you consider self-publishing as an e-book.  I did it and, although I am still trying to figure out how to market the thing, I enjoyed learning about the process so far.  The best of luck to you!


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Pigletiportugal, thank you for the welcome! 

Jayelle, all excellent suggestions...particularly the one on editing. I agree completely, and am in the process of saving up to have the work professionally looked at. As for the covers, i took a quick peek at your facebook and blog, and noticed that you and I are in a similar place regarding them. I've recently started learning to use photo-editing software, and have managed (through shear determination and patience) to get together decent-looking covers for both works. That's a GREAT skill to have. By the way, your cover looks great!

Understood, as far as posted samples. I have to say, you are quite the dedicated indy artist, with all that you've managed to learn and do. I'm beyond impressed! I'll look forward to one of those short stories if you get the time to post one sometime.

Thanks for the heads-up on appropriateness guidelines. I doubt I'll have much trouble there. I'm fairly new to forums in general, but know enough to know that inappropriate advertising of ones products and such is frowned upon. I'm still getting to know the limits of that--what constitutes what. I'm sure I'll be ok though.

I have a lot to say on the differences between the coasts--at least, between Philly and OC (the subject of an entire book, perhaps). Suffice to say, at this point, I'm still on the fence. The only thing I'm certain of is that the coasts are _different_, to say the least. Thanks again for sharing your experience on these publishing matters.

Miles


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Thank you, Scott722. No kidding, on the marketing thing. I have a few ideas, but for the most part am in the dark on the issue. I, too, am enjoying the learning process though, and hearing others' experiences.

I have e-published my shorter work, and will be curious to see how that is received. It's a tough game!

Miles


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## jayelle_cochran (Jun 6, 2013)

Thank you Miles.  If you want me to have a look at your covers and offer advice I would be more than happy to do that.  Just send me a private message.  I have to admit, my skills in the visual arts is way higher than my skills as a writer.  I was a professional artist for a while (charcoal drawings mostly, I've thought about refining my digital art and perhaps doing that as a professional too...I have more techniques to learn first.) and know a bit about the more technical aspects of having a visually appealing piece.  It's easier for me to offer constructive critique on art sometimes.

I am very dedicated.  I'm looking at my novels as being both an art form and a product produced by my business.  The artistic part comes from when I create my characters, worlds, and then sit to write them.  The same goes for the art on the cover.  Everything else is about producing a finished and polished product to sell.  It seems a bit clinical, but I have to separate both parts in my mind in order to do what's needed.  I have learned to do a lot but that's because I don't have much money and I don't want to hire someone at a discount rate if I can avoid it.  I've seen discounted covers and wanted something more.  I want this to be done as professionally as possible.  I'm having fun with it so it works.

As for promotions...you can have a link or something in your signature to your webpage, blog, etc.  Something simple would work; you can look at the signatures of other members to get an idea of what's standard.  Other than that, avoid links unless they have to do with the topic of the post (for example: posting a link to a site that explains common grammar mistakes for someone who posted about having trouble in that area).  There is a forum on here for posting about your book when it's released, though I haven't been on there yet.  If you're not sure, you can always ask one of the staff.  They'll be more than happy to let you know if your post about something violates the TOS, and would probably prefer that you asked first rather than have to moderate you later on.

As for the coasts...yes totally different worlds.  

*hugs*
Jayelle


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Jayelle,

Sure, I'm always open to having someone survey my work. If you're willing, I'd be honored to have a real artist look my covers over. I'll PM them to you in a bit. Hopefully i'll get an opportunity to reciprocate somehow, in some way.

That's probably a good way to look at your project--as having separate art and business ends. I hear you on finance. I say _POVERTY _is, in fact, the mother of invention. At least, it has been in my case. Truly. You're right, that's what we're charged with--competing against authors backed by banks and publishers. I'm always amazed at those indy artists who are able to, successfully. Thanks for taking the time to provide all the great info! 

Miles


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## Pluralized (Jun 6, 2013)

Hi Miles. Welcome to WF! Hope you find the creative outlet you're looking for, and don't be shy. Jump right in and join the many discussions or read some of the many fine works shared by members over the years. Hope to see you around!


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks for the welcome, Pluralized! Indeed, there are some fine writers in these halls. Lot's of good reading to keep me occupied for a while. Hope to see you around the forums!

Miles


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## Ariel (Jun 7, 2013)

Welcome to the forums, Strange.


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 7, 2013)

Thank you, amsawtell. Glad to be here.


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## IanMGSmith (Jun 7, 2013)

Hi Miles,

Greetings and welcome. Enjoy exploring the boards and if you need anything please don't hesitate to ask.

Ian


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## Strangedays410 (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks for the warm welcome, Ian. See you around the boards!


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