# Poem - Between Two Nowheres



## Lilly Davidson (Apr 22, 2012)

*Between two nowheres*

Was it fate or was it decreed
  that first moment  
  when I knew nothing about him
of how we would dance 
  together to the music of time

  over the years that followed
   all those words  
  paths we trod in tandem
  stony and smooth
   flying hand in hand

After he came, before he goes 
is that bright time 
   between the twin darknesses
  of two nowheres 
a time to fill coffers
   of memories to endure
   the second and most agonising
  of those nowheres


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## Lilly Davidson (Apr 22, 2012)

Before anyone comments - remember I am a beginner and these are my first clumsy attempts!


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## Kevin (Apr 22, 2012)

Lilly Davidson said:


> Before anyone comments - remember I am a beginner and these are my first clumsy attempts!


 Prepare for humiliation(it's not so bad) Any attempts at suplication shall be crushed (like Bambi meets Godzilla) Thank you for your submission( your poem, I mean)


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## Lilly Davidson (Apr 22, 2012)

Ok, I am ready! It is vital to know, good or bad. 
So all critiques will be relevant.


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## Lilly Davidson (Apr 28, 2012)

Well, I suspect my poem is rather rubbish! It does not matter much because I can improve. I was thinking about my relationship with my husband as the core of the idea. That before I met him I was nowhere and after he goes I will again be nowhere. 
Feel free anyone, just to say what you think works and what does not. I would really like to know and then set about improving it.


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## Bloggsworth (Apr 28, 2012)

Lily, are you bemoaning the lack of criticism or a percieved lack of interest in your poem? Don't worry, that's quite common, I left one up for 2 weeks and the only comment it attracted was along the lines of "My uncle cracked his head once..."


Down to business then. Ask yourself this question, is this a poem written by you or your transcription of how you think a poet would have written it? You need to remember that you are the poet here and have no need of other people's imagery, of which your poem is full; _to the music of time_,  _paths we trod etc_., find you own way of saying these things. and you will be fine.


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## Kevin (Apr 28, 2012)

What makes a poem rubbish or not? Why do people comment about a work, or not? 

I think your idea was clear. I got it, at least. I'm not qualified as far as the rest. I'm still a baby. Only thing I can say is, come back after a years worth of writing, and see what_ you_ think of it. Happy writing-K


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## Lilly Davidson (Apr 28, 2012)

Fair points. I am far more into prose fiction than poetry but I wrote this poem as part of an assignment in my creative writing course. I actually enjoyed learning about poetry but doubt it will be my thing. I think it is good to have a go at everything just to see what you can and cannot do.

Thanks for the wise and fair comment so far. Other people are writing some great poetry on here and I love reading them when I get time. I also love dipping into poetry books when I have chance.


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## BWOz (Apr 29, 2012)

Lilly,

as most early poems are, you might call this "rubbish". Here is what I see. First, as you explain in you comments the poem describes your emotions as they pertain to your husband and your lives together. From the readers' perspective, we basically don't care what your "feelings" are. So , in that sense you have written a therapy poem -- something intended to make you and/or your husband have some emotional attachment.

Also, the basic theme is extremely worn and overused. It is like writing about "love", the fact that we have overused (abused) that word over the generations has made it so cliche that is it difficult to use in poetry. It is better to describe elements of love without actually defining the word.

Since you are asking for pointers, here are some from my experience, and which I have read in text books and interviews of well known poets.

1. Read a lot of poetry, not just the most well known, but also poetry by lesser knowns like us...
2. Very often you can improve a poem simply by rearranging the lines. I think you could try that here, see how it works.
3. We tend to write in past tense; try putting this poem into first person present tense. In doing so you will probably note some lines or words that just don't fit.
4. Always think of our audience first -- add flavor and color, time, motion to your writing that appeal to the reader. Here is where reading a lot of poetry will help.
5. Consider the "voice" of your poem. I often think of a specific voice, maybe an actor, or some kind of accent, and it can help define your writing, give a clear focus.

Keep writing and posting.

BW
5.


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## Lilly Davidson (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi BWoz

Lol - helpfully accurate critique indeed. I suspected it was rubbish and now I *know* it is. I can work with that.


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## Jon M (Apr 29, 2012)

Lily,

I like your attitude regarding the criticism you've received thus far. You seem like you genuinely wish to improve. 

The title of the poem is interesting, evocative -- I like it very much. But the rest of the poem goes downhill from there because it feels so lofty and nonspecific. My advice is that you bring your poem back down to Earth, root it in very specific, vivid detail. This poem made me feel like I was looking at an unfocused picture. I don't know what it is about. How does one 'dance to the music of time?' I am not seeking an answer, merely trying to point out that the phrase means nothing, is empty. People dance to songs, and they sing those songs -- in their cars, in their kitchens as they clean, when they think no one else is home. 

I think beginning poets have a (natural) tendency to write about grandiose and 'poetic' ideas (such as time or fate) because that is what they think poetry ought to be about. But poetry is about moments. Specific moments, specific ideas. And there is poetry in the quiet, ordinary moments.

So, next time, try writing about a specific moment in time, using very specific and vivid details / imagery.


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## Lilly Davidson (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi Jon 
that is good food for thought. I have to say my main interest is definitely short story writing but poetry is always worth having a go at, however awful!


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## BWOz (Apr 29, 2012)

Lilly,

I think the comments and advice you received from all of us is really good, and for the most I think we are all kind of saying the same thing.

Most Import thing I (we) forgot to mention is: all poets start right where you are, so if you really love poetry then keep working to improve. Again, read a lot of poetry and you will start finding your own voice -- like a musician who first learns to play all the standards, then starts developing a style of their own.
BW


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## jeffrey c mcmahan (May 5, 2012)

Lily;

I have to say I don't agree with any of my previous mentors critiques as they apply specifically to this poem. Accept them as generalities, or not at all. This forum has a tradition of expecting members to provide critical analyses for others works. Which not only provides a process by which a writer can present their work and get feedback from other writers, but also develops the "readers" ability to "parse" an example of writing, and hopefully come up with an intelligent and thoughtful critique. Thus developing his/her own craft. Personally my writing skills, or lack of, as some might trumpet, have been nurtured by an extensive history of reading, and not by any formal training. Almost exclusively through prose literature. As a child I was charmed by a collection of poems by R.L.Stevenson. A few select selections of L.Carroll. And later by a Vietnamese author T.N.Hahn. That's pretty much it. Reading others poems is not an undertaking I take lightly. I have never read a poem in the New Yorker I practically cared for, don't get me started on the periodicals cartoons either. As for the big names, and classical poets, I agree with the man that said, "Homer should be turned out of the lists, and whipped". With that said, I've most likely read more poems here on this site, then all that has gone before. 

As for your poem; I didn't take it for rubbish at all. It's well written, all the lines form a complete image, which is something I like to see in a poem. I did notice right at first that it was a love poem, but I got over that, and was able to arrive at the end, without an unpleasant taste in my mouth. "A time to fill coffers, of memories to endure" is a unique, and if I dare say, sublime expression. Don't let your teachers fill you up with conventions and "how it needs to be" First develop your style, then you may start to establish and use your own, or others conventions, as you decide the when and wheres, of it.

Remember:

Art, is long in the tooth, and short in critical appreciation.


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## Kevin (May 5, 2012)

Lilly Davidson said:


> Hi Jon
> that is good food for thought. I have to say my main interest is definitely short story writing but poetry is always worth having a go at, however awful!



I'd say poetry _is_ a form short story writing. Sometimes the story is very short, maybe just a scene.


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## Bloggsworth (May 5, 2012)

Writing poetry is good for short story writers, it teaches you not to waste words.


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