# draft: the long rains



## TinyDancer (Aug 2, 2012)

...It feels like play-dough at the moment that I keep adding bits to and then mishmashing around...It's taking longer than expected and I still haven't gotten to ( what I feel are )the more interesting bits, but I hope it has improved since my first posts and thanks again for the advice that has helped shape it  

..question please...do I describe the rain in too many ways and too many times? I keep deleting bits of it but it might still be too much?

On March 1940 the East African coast patiently braced itself for the “long rains", a season that begins in mid-March and often continues onto June. 

High humidity and tropical downpours hit the Zanzibar countryside with large drops of water smashing into the softening mud like an audience applauding the premier of a top-class show. Vision is reduced to a misty haze as dense sheets of rain continue to pour onto the isolated streets, unfaltering. 

Life during this season is primarily lived at home in rural villages, even in the city, many hotels had closed down for these “long” rains.

Bibi Saada walks these flooding dirt tracks, A kanga, the colourful cloth often worn by women in Africa, is wrapped around her tanned plump face, its turquoise and black patterns fluttering behind her like the wings of an angel as she rushes through the darkness. The saying printed upon it: dua la kuku halimpati mwewe, meaning ‘a chickens prayer doesn’t affect a hawk’, is barely visible. Deep lines are etched into the corners of her eye, the only sign of her worry, her years, yet they shine with energy and urgency as she carries on, feet slushing, marching through thick mud and pouring rain. She is a midwife, and has delivered many babies in her time, each one special, and each one a memory marked forever in her heart. Tonight, a baby is on its way and so on her was she must be. Saada carries a bag with her covered in a cloth; a failed attempt to keep its contents dry. She can hardly be seen, and neither can she see, as she walks as fast as she can, and with all her effort, through dense sheets of pouring rain, towards a place called “Kidogo Basi” meaning “despite smallness”, a town with a very small population, located in the state region of Zanzibar central, Tanzania. She makes her way to a hut in the outskirts of the village, a schoolteacher’s home.

Tonight, my father would be born, olive skinned and almond eyed with large locks of dark curly hair on his head. His mother Fatima is barely twenty, having married early as was custom to the time. He is her second child and she is overjoyed.

Fatima is barely twenty, having married early as was custom to the time. He is her second child and she is overjoyed.

But they don’t remain in kidogo Basi for long. 

The life of a schoolteacher, hired by the government in Zanzibar, often involves being transferred from school to school according to need. Mo did not question that, it was his life and path that he had long since accepted. 
     “It is my place,” he explained to Fatima, gently at first, as she shyly asked if he would consider staying. 
     “As is yours besides me” he added, getting mildly annoyed that she would put him in that position, when this was their life, and she was his wife, and that was that.
 To the disappointment of Fatima, within a year they transfer to the village of Pemba, away from her parents and extended family whom she was close to, away from everyone she knew, she wanted to be a good wife and mother, to try to recreate her home, the roots in her heart. She loved her husband, but she’d only known him for a few years, not as long as she’d known her family. It seemed unnatural being away from them. She was still, in essence, a child, longing for her mother, now scared and lonely in a new place, but she would try her best to be brave and strong.


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## patskywriter (Aug 2, 2012)

Hmm. Everything is so passive in this story, giving the feeling that nothing is really happening.

Also, as you change to new characters with the start of each new paragraph, I find myself getting confused. I'm asking myself, "who's he?" and "who are they?" whenever you start writing about a new character without first introducing him to the reader.


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## garza (Aug 2, 2012)

TinyDancer - You say the last paragraph is the least edited. It's also the best. While the last paragraph does need tweaking, it does not suffer from the problems of the earlier paragraphs and is the best one for the reader.

A major problem with the earlier paragraphs is an overburden of modifiers. Try this. Cut every adjective and adverb from the first paragraph. And I do mean every one. Here's what you should have:

_On March 1940, the East African coast braced itself for the rains, a season that begins in mid-March and often continues onto June. Humidity and downpours hit the Zanzibar countryside. Drops of water smash into the mud like an audience applauding the premier of a top-class show. Or the chirrup of a thousand birds. Vision is reduced to a haze as sheets of rain pour onto the streets. Life, during this season, is lived at home. Even in the city, hotels had closed down for these rains._

I also made one other change, eliminating the 'continued to'. Read it. Do you see the focus is sharper? The picture clearer? Now put back only those adjectives you consider essential. Do your need them, for real? The only ones that look essential is the 'long' in long rains, as I believe the monsoon-like rains of Spring are called.

The audience applauding fails, at least for me, to convey the sound of heavy rain hitting mud that at first is dry, but after a short time turns to thick soup. You need to work on  that.


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## Writ (Aug 2, 2012)

Patskywriter is right, none of the paragraphs are logically united to the other. 

Just my opinion but I disagree with garza's advice with the exception of your non-fiction piece being submitted to a newspaper as a human interest piece. 

Aside from that, I wouldn't expel the the modifiers if part of the goal of your non-fiction is to make use of the fictional method of narrative.

In that case I would edit the first paragraph to read like this:



_On March 1940 the East African coast patiently braced itself for the  “long rains." A season that begins in mid-March and often continues onto  June. 

High humidity and tropical downpours hit the Zanzibar  countryside with large drops of water smashing into the softening mud like an audience  applauding the premier of a top-class show. Vision is reduced to a misty haze as dense sheets of rain continue to  pour onto the isolated streets, unfaltering. 

Life during this season  is primarily lived at home in rural villages, even in the city, many hotels had closed  down for these “long” rains._


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## Divus (Aug 3, 2012)

Tiny, my reaction was much as that of Garza's.     However it is your piece and if I (or Garza) were to re-write it then the article would become European or Central American rather than African.     As it is now, the article is definitely 'humid' - be it containing a few grammatical mistakes by my way of thinking.   Whereas your writing almost 'smells' of Africa.

How I personally would write such an article would also be heavily influenced by the knowing the nature of the readers  whom you are addressing.      If I were in your seat, I would be tempted to write the article in the English as spoken  by the locals - in which case English-English grammar, structure and style would be inappropriate.

We westerners turn our backs on Africa. We don't like to think about the rains, the humidity, the sweat, the mud, the squalor, the poverty.   We don't want to look.

So write in your own style as it comes out of your head.


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## TinyDancer (Aug 3, 2012)

patskywriter, garza, Writ and Divus, thanks so much for the feedback, I've been absorbing it since, the sting of the bubble burst at first was little uncomfortable but then even that is also good, I feel more relaxed now knowing it as it really is from different point of views, more relaxed and ready to work on it! also less afraid.  When I wrote it I was reading Capote's 'In Cold Blood' (not by choice, for class) and I liked the fictional descriptive way he presented it, But  I tend to overdo the descriptions so I'm going to try it with less... modifiers (it is the first time I use that word in that context  )  going to work on getting more info also and maybe add some physical descriptions.. and names (although I would have to use fake ones here) I will try to make it more interesting!


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## Cran (Aug 3, 2012)

In a short piece like this, I'm less concerned about introducing characters or smooth continuity; a montage of images in narrative can work well at this length. I think the idea is good, and worth polishing. 

I do agree with *patskywriter*'s point where you've opted for the passive verb forms, and with *garza*'s about the danger of overpopulating the piece with modifiers (which adds to the slowing down). You want your modifiers to hit our inner senses - in other words, to bring colour, scent, sound, touch and taste - most especially in the similes and metaphors.

As an editor, I see quite a few nits (or tweaks) in terms of sentence structure, self-consistency, punctuation, and the odd preposition*, but the bigger issue (apart from those already mentioned) is the tendency to "time-slip"; that is, the unnecessary switching between past tense and present tense.  

*For example, when describing a time, we are usually "on" days, but "in" months (On Friday, in March).


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## TinyDancer (Aug 3, 2012)

Thank you I will consider the tenses and sentence structure as I rewrite- these paragraphs are intro to a potentially much larger piece, apologies for not making that clear before... if that is the case, though, would that allow me to be more 'slow' in the beginning? or would it still be better more active.. I'm leaning towards active, just because interesting is always better.


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## Cran (Aug 3, 2012)

TinyDancer said:


> if that is the case, though, would that allow me to be more 'slow' in the beginning? ... I'm leaning towards active, just because interesting is always better.



Again, *TinyDancer*, you're on the right track. Your opening is your best chance to bring the reader into your story, into the net you've woven - that's why we often call it _the hook_. 

However, if this piece is the beginning of a larger story involving the old woman and the teacher and the little boy, and not a stand-alone scene, then we have to come back to *patskywriter*'s other point - introduce us as each appears. Names, and first impressions (appearance, mannerisms, temper, etc), make all the difference in the beginning of longer stories. 

And, if this montage of images is not then a form of prelude to the main thread of the tale, then the individual strands are a bit short and disconnected. This is well illustrated by the definite time-setting in the opening par - March 1940 - through until par 4, which alone spans at least five years (a montage within the montage), and then par 5 - the stand-alone (and stand-out) hospital (crowd) scene which could be at any point in time within or beyond that five year span.


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## patskywriter (Aug 3, 2012)

Divus said:


> … We westerners turn our backs on Africa. We don't like to think about the rains, the humidity, the sweat, the mud, the squalor, the poverty.   We don't want to look. …



TinyDancer, please don't take this to heart! I'm a Westerner, but a black Westerner. Like my family and many of my friends, we're hungry for Africa and are usually thrilled when we get the chance to meet Africans and learn about their families and lifestyles. Describe to your heart's content (within reason) and don't worry about people not wanting to think about Africa—because there are lots of people who do.  :welcoming:


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## TinyDancer (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks, I will try to flesh it out abit. I've found out what the midwife's name is and I that it might be easier to find out about who she is because she delivered lots of babies there, and might have delivered both my mother and father! ( not confirmed) I am also seriously thinking about following advice from the 'fiction vs nonfiction' thread and perhaps make it fiction based on nonfiction, that way I might be able to describe things more intimately without the fear of 'lying' and I would still stay true to culture... but I could create specific scenes that way..he said/she said and bring it closer to the reader. Thanks for the advice


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## Divus (Aug 4, 2012)

Pat, I am not sure if the meaning behind my words have been misunderstood but let us let it go.    In a way, you are making the point I am trying to make - I am a white Englishman, born in the era of Empire whereas you are a black American.       Our views emanate from very different starting points.   How we write in the English language, the words we use, the style we project,  the attitudes we take, must be very different because of the environments in which we have lived.   

I am actually trying to encourage Tiny to write as an African might write  and not as perhaps I, as a white Londoner, might write about the same topic.

I try never to write on this international forum in an offensive manner but sometimes I fail to read back to myself my own words with the same meaning as a viewer starting from a different perspective might interpret them.        Therein offence can be given, where no offence is meant.

My point about closing our British eyes to what goes on in some parts of  Africa nowadays  revolves about a little guilt perhaps and a reluctance to share the resources of the world.     Sadly these days most young people in Britain do not bother to study any Colonial history.  It is of no interest to them.   We'd rather watch American TV and that's our loss.


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## Kevin (Aug 4, 2012)

patskywriter said:


> TinyDancer, please don't take this to heart! I'm a Westerner, but a black Westerner. Like my family and many of my friends, we're hungry for Africa and are usually thrilled when we get the chance to meet Africans and learn about their families and lifestyles. Describe to your heart's content (within reason) and don't worry about people not wanting to think about Africa—because there are lots of people who do.  :welcoming:


 Isn't that funny(strange)? My take on D's comment was that this particular setting is often overlooked or forgotten, and  therefore  presents an oportunity for the writer.  I was just thinking that the setting was the pieces's strongest draw. It is totally interesting, and even if it takes time to develop (the writing, that is) I think it is a story worth the effort.


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## TinyDancer (Aug 4, 2012)

absolutely! I just spoke to my father, I have enough info for another few paragraphs and I think its so so brilliant, I'm going to really try to do it justice.. the story is... well, it made me emotional. then I spilled tea and tears on on laptop..but I think... if I even do it quarter of the justice it deserves.. it would still be moving.  ahh this is great! I'm really happy now  also I got a job today so I'll be interviewing businesspeople for a regional magazine, all the better to gain confidence and practice in the nonfiction genre- although those are presented in a very objective 'newsly' way lol. Life's good


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## Cran (Aug 4, 2012)

hey, congratulations on the job, and welcome to the wide and weird world of journalism!


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## TinyDancer (Aug 4, 2012)

Thanks Cran  and I took no offence to any of the above comments, Divus, what you said about it smelling african made me smile.. I really liked that! I'd like to think I bring some of the feelings of there to here.. 
I think we should all feel free to say what we feel without fear of offence.. as my brother would say.. love is always the answer, and Im definitely feeling the love here and thank you all for that. ...I'm really excited about working on this next bit and hopefully I will post it when its done


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## Writ (Aug 5, 2012)

Putting the craft of writing aside I would encourage you to develop your  Arabic, Swahili, and studies into Islamic poetry with more depth. If  you want to of course. There is nothing wrong with a slight knowledge or  even a superficial engagement with something. 

But comprehend  the times you are in in the English speaking world. If you wish to  deliver what you may regard as a serious message and not just  entertainment to readers. For that you have to extend your mind and  education beyond mere prose and the mechanics of English writing. 

I  recall reading something from some writer or social critic a few years  ago. He said the curious thing about our times is that everyone is  expected to have an opinion on everything no matter how little they know  on any given subject. A correct observation in my opinion. I would add  to that this seems to be compounded by the indoctrination a political  party or secular ideology is suppose to deliver you _your_ proper opinion. 

In another thread - one several years old that I took the initiative to revive :lol:  - a young fellow stated he had a thirst for knowledge (a good) and  wanted to know everything about this world (not a good, but hubris in my  opinion) and asked what books to read. In the current English speaking  world at first glance there is nothing pernicious in this combined  presumption and request. After all, do not the _properly_ minded people demand we inform a race of people with Black History Month?

We are also the culture of Slim Fast and a thousand other ways to achieve what you want in record time with a pill, short essay, or new piece of equipment to promising you this or that.

The young man went on to say he wants to know _how all_ world religions began.  In the English speaking world this sounds intelligent and proper. But I  suspect in many parts of the non-English speaking world, and in the  Arabic speaking world not only does it sound slothful and ignorant but  its suggestion automatically belittles Islam. 







If  you hope to bring a message, demonstrate through your written story,  the various goods and humanistic qualities to be found in Africa and the  Islamic artistic and literary world, you may well need more than a  superficial understanding of those things - to be adequately persuasive  to those readers in English that may come to your book with a negative  bias against Islam and black Africa. That's not to say other English  readers will not come to your book with a positive bias for Islam and  black Africa. But in my experience the bulk of these latter people are  more than satisfied with superficial engagements with non-white, and/or  non-Western cultures (not to suggest Muslim = white), and of course, are  likely to be champions of Black-History month.  

Man From Mars  has pointed out an important thing in more than one thread, something  I've heard from one or two college professors: There are always costs to  everything.

Without getting to deep into that lets just say  suffice to say if you are like this Jesuit (below) that earned a Ph.D.  in Arabic and Islamic studies then time perusing those things comes with  a cost of being unable to expend much energy in obtaining a doctorate  level grasp of 3, 4, 5, 10, 40, 1000, or 2 million other things let  alone everything there is to know about the world.  

The Jesuit  in this video (if you decide to watch it) addresses an important role  for Islam in recovering humanity from sinking into the domination of  biological determinism. Which is in part why I encourage you to pursue  your studies into Arabic and Islam. From my stand point the English  speaking world is already lost. Those - and there are not many in the  English speaking world - that are on the gate against determinism,  attempting to hold it back, are atheist, scientists, Catholics,  Protestants etc. But those that are on the other side championing  determinism are are members of those same beliefs and communities. 

It  is like post era of JFK. Being Catholic or Protestant means little and  the two are one the same side fighting against Catholics and Protestants  on the same side, over issues like abortion. 

Thus... to use the motif of the "anti-christ" as something extraordinarily bad, it is in fact the atheist and Muslim I  expect to see on my side against biological determinism as Catholics  and Protestant in the name of enlightenment and all that is good seeks  to spread domination across the globe through the language of science. 

That's all a rant. But while my major is biology I still sympathize with the humanities. And if biology be my "household" then the time is coming where one's members of his own household shall be his enemies. I expect the movie _Gattaca_  to become reality eventually. I look to Islam, Africa, Arabia, and  Spanish speaking Latin America to be the final warriors standing against  it. 

(Pope Benedict XVI in his memoir stated something I found  intriguing related to language, he said he believes it was his childhood  years of study in Greek and Latin and classical thought that provided  him a strong defensive buffer [intellectually] against the message of  the Nazis that came in the language of German and and science)

Catholic Priest Among Muslims - News & Events - Seton Hall University, New Jersey



> *About the lecturer:*
> Fr. Tom Michel, S.J.  studied Arabic in Lebanon and Egypt and received a Ph.D. in Arabic and  Islamic Studies from the University of Chicago. His doctoral thesis  focused on the thought of Sunni Islamic scholar Ibn Taymiyya.



*FYI:* Don't get caught up on the man's vocation (i.e., religion and profession as a priest). Bear in mind if I ever obtain my bachelor degree, let alone in a science, and if I ever do learn Spanish, or just one other language, within my Black-American community of Milwaukee I'll be in about 3% of blacks with those two things. That's probably being generous. More likely I'd being in 0.1% of blacks in Milwaukee. I know few that have obtained at least a bachelor and I know only one that speaks a second language. The lesson for me is that this man is white and he did not wait for Arabic or Islam to come to him but he went to those (learning I mean) things. He did not wait for an "Arabic" or "Islamic History Month."

My interests are more with Spanish, Latin America, and after meeting my now former Africology professor that is a Vodoo Priest, I would probably prefer to study Vodoo outside of Catholicism. While I have some small feelings of connection with Germany and West Africa (I'm half German-American and half black) I've grown to feel more _American_ (in the broader context, not just the U.S.) over the years. It's this world that has shaped me more - not Germany or Africa. But we all have our own interests and our own paths. 

Sorry for the tangent. I didn't know a shorter or more concise way to make my point while simultaneously given insight into where I was coming from.


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## Divus (Aug 5, 2012)

Writ - all I can say is 'Wow' - you will have to explain to me, let alone others.


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## TinyDancer (Aug 5, 2012)

Hi Writ. I agree with Divus that this was confusing to read. let me go through it bit by bit though.. I would like to deliver as you say ' a serious message rather than just entertainment' to the reader, but it was never my intention to deliberately educate the reader in Arabic/Islamic/Swahili, as I don't feel I am learned enough in any to do so... that said, I am influenced by all three, but am not currently studying arabic or islamic, as was compulsory to do in school from grades 1-12. Arabic, to me now, is to speak to my neighbours and friends. Islam is to speak to God and find peace in my heart. and Swahili is to understand my parents when they speak to eachother. 
In my story, as I bring it 'closer' to the reader with days details and moments described... perhaps all of these elements will shine through without me seeking them. I hope it does...I feel it might, a bit. 

I watched 30 minutes of that video before I could not watch anymore.. sorry to say I did not enjoy most of it, although some of the stories were moving, I also felt like he stated a little bit of the obvious, and his voice was a little bit like a lullaby, and he spoke really slow :/  
that said,  we are similar in that I am a muslim living with christians and a pagan (whereas he was a lone christian amongst muslims) and the only muslim in my class. It doesn't bother me at all.

ok, biological determinism...you say ( im going to copy/paste this): The Jesuit in this video (if you decide to watch it) addresses an important role for Islam in recovering humanity from sinking into the domination of biological determinism. Which is in part why I encourage you to pursue your studies into Arabic and Islam. From my stand point the English speaking world is already lost. Those - and there are not many in the English speaking world - that are on the gate against determinism, attempting to hold it back, are atheist, scientists, Catholics, Protestants etc. But those that are on the other side championing determinism are are members of those same beliefs and communities. 


whuh? I don't think I reached that part in the video, if I did then I wasn't paying attention.. but you are talking about fate? the funny thing about fate is that whether people believe in it or not, only one thing can happen at one time so... we can think about it for forever but it wouldn't necessarily change a thing..maybe im completely off par though can you please explain this line in particular:  an important role for Islam in recovering humanity from sinking into the domination of biological determinism.

...I did try. lol


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## Writ (Aug 6, 2012)

TinyDancer said:


> Hi Writ. I agree with Divus that this was confusing to read. let me go through it bit by bit though.. I would like to deliver as you say ' a serious message rather than just entertainment' to the reader, but it was never my intention to deliberately educate the reader in Arabic/Islamic/Swahili, as I don't feel I am learned enough in any to do so... that said, I am influenced by all three, but am not currently studying arabic or islamic, as was compulsory to do in school from grades 1-12. Arabic, to me now, is to speak to my neighbours and friends. Islam is to speak to God and find peace in my heart. and Swahili is to understand my parents when they speak to eachother.
> 
> In my story, as I bring it 'closer' to the reader with days details and moments described... perhaps all of these elements will shine through without me seeking them. I hope it does...I feel it might, a bit.



I wasn't referring to your story. If I mention the name Gabriel Garcia Marquez I'm not referring to a specific story of his but rather him as an author. Similar to say a heart surgeon... I would not be referring to a single specific operation but rather a surgeon that has a body of knowledge, a certain kind of profession, and a history of work behind him and presumably a future of improved work ahead of him. 

Gabriel Garcia Marquez won a Nobel prize in literature I believe. If I recall correctly for his book _One Hundred Years of Solitude_. I was told by a Colombian trying to teach me Spanish at the time, that to understand that book one has to understand the history of Colombia. Apparently, he read the book something like 8 times I think. Marquez's book I guess was - or is - an allegorical work. 

But perhaps a better example is Tolkien and others regarded as "Christian authors." _Lords of the Ring_ supposedly was a Christian work with Christian messages. 

When I said I _encourage you_ to delve deeper in to Arabic, Swahili, and Islam I was not insinuating I thought you were a master of any of those things at present, nor was I insinuating the process of growth or education in those things are equivalent to Slim Fast or quickly purchasing food at Fast Food restaurants. I also was not demanding you to obtain a doctorate. Actually, I was making no demand of you at all. But I suppose at root here is how one interprets the English word "encouragement." 

I was under the impression you had an interest in communicating certain things about Islam to an audience. Maybe I was wrong. But I thought I read you say something to that effect somewhere. 

At any rate... if you are satisfied where you are at in those things and if you have little desire to communicate deeper Islamic thoughts to readers (I'm speaking about in the future not at present) then I encourage you to stay where you are at and to leave Islam between you and Allah. 



> I watched 30 minutes of that video before I could not watch anymore.. sorry to say I did not enjoy most of it, although some of the stories were moving, I also felt like he stated a little bit of the obvious, and his voice was a little bit like a lullaby, and he spoke really slow :/
> that said,  we are similar in that I am a muslim living with christians and a pagan (whereas he was a lone christian amongst muslims) and the only muslim in my class. It doesn't bother me at all.



It was a long video. 

I draw encouragement from people that make impressive accomplishment _*to me*_. Anyone with a Ph.D. in anything is impressive to me to that extent. I'll be happy getting a bachelor degree. I'm often surprised I've gotten this far and haven't given up long ago. Lord knows I was close to throwing in the towel more times than I can probably count. 

But I have to say, the guy wasn't the best speaker and he wasn't particularly entertaining either. 



> ok, biological determinism...you say ( im going to copy/paste this): The Jesuit in this video (if you decide to watch it) addresses an important role for Islam in recovering humanity from sinking into the domination of biological determinism. Which is in part why I encourage you to pursue your studies into Arabic and Islam. From my stand point the English speaking world is already lost. Those - and there are not many in the English speaking world - that are on the gate against determinism, attempting to hold it back, are atheist, scientists, Catholics, Protestants etc. But those that are on the other side championing determinism are are members of those same beliefs and communities.
> 
> 
> whuh? I don't think I reached that part in the video, if I did then I wasn't paying attention.. but you are talking about fate? the funny thing about fate is that whether people believe in it or not, only one thing can happen at one time so... we can think about it for forever but it wouldn't necessarily change a thing..maybe im completely off par though can you please explain this line in particular:  an important role for Islam in recovering humanity from sinking into the domination of biological determinism.
> ...



The Jesuit touched upon biological determinism at the end of the video when he briefly spoke about Hawkings. I don't think he mentioned biological determinism specifically but it was inherent in his message.

Currently, as institutions, there are really only two major actors on the planet involved in the discourse over determinism, the scientific departments across the earth and the Catholic Church. 

Science itself has been said to be "a language of power." Most of us really don't understand that language and most of us certainly aren't fluent in it. You can put me in that category. I'm simply learning little by little a little of that language. Again, I should say here I do not imply that process of learning for me is symmetrical to drinking Slim Fast to lose weight. It's more symmetrical to years of a changed diet and years of discipline exercising. 

Perhaps a word here about "knowledge." And this is only my opinion but I don;t think it's too far off the mark. To me a bachelor degree in anything is far away from a doctoral degree. If say I obtained a bachelor degree in biology or political science or say... African studies, I would only be at a blue belt level. So, Arab scholars with Ph.D.'s and this Jesuit with a Ph.D. in Arab and Islam studies are at black belt level to me. Of course, people can be self educated on a subject too. And for the purpose of a specific book or story a lay men of anything can conduct research into a particular thing or subject without having any previous exposure or knowledge about it previously. Authors do this all the time. And its perfectly fine and sensible. So, I hope you don't confuse what I'm saying here.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


White

Blue

Purple

Brown





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There's also nothing wrong with a superficial engagement with a culture, people, subject, or thing. There are many things I want no more of an engagement with than on a superficial level. I'm not presently interested in studying Islam in depth, so, a superficial engagement with it suffices for me. Similar with most things of Africa or Swahili. Someone telling me a little catchy phrase in Swahili is okay with me. Like tacos and Mexicans. But when it comes to Brazil - while I still only engage that on a superficial level - I've expended more energy looking at it more in depth. I've read several books on Brazil. By comparison I've read little to no books on the United States (aside from on Milwaukee), Germany, or the continent of Africa. I don't think I've ever read anything on Mexico either accept for a large book on the Conquest of Mexico by Cortez and the Spanish.


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## TinyDancer (Aug 6, 2012)

Writ. I understand some of what you are saying. I don't know what your point is exactly though, I am not sure why you are saying all of the above ^ or why i feel like you are getting annoyed at me...if I've been rude it wasn't intentional..and the points you make are interesting, its just the ends that feel untied ( might not be the right phrase there) know this though.. I don't know much, and my memory is kapoot...
I did, however, once upon a time some six years ago attempt to achieve a degree in philosophy (maj) and sociology (min) it was fun and I did alright ( I did super in my first year according to the assignments) until I dabbled in stuff and lost the plot and now I'm taking writing. 

I think you are a philosopher at heart, and that is brilliant.


ps. I've changed edited the story and posted it back, if anyone was interested... I am happy about how it's turning out


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## DW Keech (Aug 6, 2012)

As an anthropologist, I have to say that I missed all the points of the editorial comments above (which I see now are excellent critiques). I felt transported to Africa with the midwife and was excited about your father's birth.  In fact, that is the line that really "hooked me".  It was personal and  heartfelt.    

I'm not a good writer, yet.  But as a reader, I  immediately entered into the journey and want it to continue!     

Thanks to your posting and all the critiques, I really learned a lot today.


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## Writ (Aug 6, 2012)

TinyDancer said:


> Writ. I understand some of what you are saying. I don't know what your point is exactly though, I am not sure why you are saying all of the above ^ or why i feel like you are getting annoyed at me...if I've been rude it wasn't intentional..and the points you make are interesting, its just the ends that feel untied ( might not be the right phrase there) know this though.. I don't know much, and my memory is kapoot...
> I did, however, once upon a time some six years ago attempt to achieve a degree in philosophy (maj) and sociology (min) it was fun and I did alright ( I did super in my first year according to the assignments) until I dabbled in stuff and lost the plot and now I'm taking writing.
> 
> I think you are a philosopher at heart, and that is brilliant.
> ...



Tiny, I probably caused your thread to take a wrong direction, and it was unintentional on my part. This section of the board is probably more geared toward development of the mechanics of writing. So, I don't want to spend too much time steering it in other directions. More importantly you created this thread to share a piece of writing of yours in the works and to have it critiqued. And I need to respect that and not veer your thread from its real purpose.

I'm not a philosopher by the way. Although, I do think of fiction and novels and some non-fiction books as having philosophical characteristics to them in their stories. 

Daniel Dennett is much more brilliant a mind than me. He's also far more educated than myself. He's an author of numerous books himself. And he has stated in so many words... that professors in the humanities like English professors often are resistant to what determinism offers the world. This being the case he seems to imply even if they are agnostic or atheist. I see his point. There are even atheist scientists that cast their sympathies with the religious or people that write humanistic stories about Swahili speaking Africans trudging through the long rains. 

Impoverished Latin Americans, faithful Muslims, and uneducated Africans don't need to read Dennett and they don't even need to know what biological determinism is or that educated and powerful men and women across the world are speaking over their heads, machinating to reshape the future and determine the future of others. Their cultures built on family, traditions, and maybe even hope... is their strength that will eventually defy the haughty and mighty intellectual world of the West. 

That's all I will say on that, hoping to give the last explanation as to where my thoughts were coming from. I think if you check out the movie trailer _Gattaca_ you'll better understand where the direction of my thoughts were going. So, with that, let us return back to the mechanical and technical critiques of your story. 




About Daniel Dennett (for background info on the name I mentioned): Daniel Dennett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> *Daniel Clement Dennett* (born March 28, 1942)[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] is an American philosopher, writer and cognitive scientist whose research centers on the philosophy of mind, philosophy of science and philosophy of biology, particularly as those fields relate to evolutionary biology and cognitive science.[SUP][3][/SUP] He is currently the Co-director of the Center for Cognitive Studies, the Austin B. Fletcher Professor of Philosophy, and a University Professor at Tufts University. Dennett is a firm atheist and secularist, a member of the Secular Coalition for America advisory board,[SUP][4][/SUP] as well as an outspoken supporter of the Brights movement. Dennett is referred to as one of the "Four Horsemen of New Atheism," along with Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and the late Christopher Hitchens.[SUP][5][/SUP]


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## Divus (Aug 7, 2012)

Tiny, this morning as I started to drink my first cup of coffee, I opened up the thread.      I see your piece has been hijacked.   However I also note that you have yourself reworked your article and it now reads better.

There are still one or two things I might alter but as I have tried to explain, in an article of this nature on the subject of life and custom in Africa it is not appropriate for me personally to do so.      Your story is about a very simple and basic way of living - so maybe it is correct to tell the story in an uncomplicated style. 

Dv


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## TinyDancer (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks Divus, I'll keep working on it


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## TinyDancer (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi... perhaps this piece can be deleted? I feel it has no point here (much like myself) and if I want to use it as a final and then as a potential piece to publish (big dreams eh) it probably shouldn't be anywhere where I am not...(although you might see bits of it pop up on other writing forums if I need motivation) I've copied all the advice onto word.. and thank all of you for it, I was very impressed and touched with the helpful advice that I received here, and for that this site has been great. I  will keep working on it reading the advice again sometimes when I need direction/motivation. 

asta la whatzit.


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## Cran (Aug 20, 2012)

I'm sorry you feel that way, *TinyDancer*. I believe you very much have a place here, but of course, that decision is yours to make. 

You have the right to, and can, delete your own posts, including the first one. You also have the right to ask a moderator to delete the inappropriate (hijacking) posts to bring this thread back to relevance. Why this was not done in the first instance, I don't know. Finally, you have the right to ask a moderator to delete the entire thread. 

Whether you decide to stay or go, I wish you all success with your writing.


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## TinyDancer (Aug 24, 2012)

Thanks Cran... I think I will stick around.


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