# Opinion on a letter to my landlord please!



## Potty (Feb 15, 2012)

OK so we moved into a rented house after speaking directly to the bloke letting it. We initially had a verbal agreement that we would rent it for 4 years then look into buying it off him. He and his wife are retired and were going to sell the property to get some money to bum about the world for a bit (fair enough!). Recently some stuff has happened and me and the other half are no longer happy living here.

We are hoping to get written permission from him to allow us to end our term early without having to pay up untill september. So basically we get to move out at the end of the month without getting charged lots! We think there is a good chance he will be up for this but I've decided I'm too chicken to ask him face to face. 

If you could take a look at my letter and tell me what you think (knowing my overall aim). I'm not very good at letter writing and often find that what makes sence to me is gibberish to other people. I want this to sound a bit more personable than it is at the moment. Right now it just seems quite cold

Thanks in advance!


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Dear landlord,

After much thought, myself and <other halfs name> have come to the conclusion that it would be best if we moved out of number 41. The reasons for doing so are varied but the main one being we would like to give you the opportunity to sell the property as you first wished. You mentioned in a recent letter that you can ill afford to maintain the property so we are happy to move on for you to find a buyer. 

Other reasons are, we doubt we will be able to save for a deposit while living here as we first intended. We plan to move back in with <other halfs name> family for 12 months in order to build up a suitable deposit on another property. Also, after living at 41 for over a year we have come to the realisation that the property probably isn't suitable for our needs and ambitions.

We regret that our relationship has been strained recently as this is far from what we wanted. But we hope you would be willing to agree to let us end our tenancy agreement early allowing you freedom to prepare the property quickly and allowing us to start saving straight away. If this isn't suitable feel free to let us know so we may re-plan with completing the full term of the agreement in mind.

Thank you in advance.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

Potty my friend, you’d have more luck asking about creative writing than seeking a 100% correct answer to a question about dealing with another person. The one difficult thing about living on this planet is the people, as there aren’t any rules.

My instinctive reaction to your post was that face-to-face will always get better results than a letter. It’s just that it’s easier for someone else to say “No” if they’re not in a face-to-face encounter and, by the same token, harder for them *not* to say “Yes”. People don’t like confrontation.

Of course this works both ways.

However, it all depends on the personalities involved. 

Basically your letter might work, although I’d get rid of the final sentence – don’t give him a way out.

One other thing is the middle paragraph: it offers nothing to the landlord, and effectively tells him his house is below your expectations; for those reasons it also needs to go (or be changed – see below).

Would you consider using a white lie? You could say you need to move to Land’s End or John O’ Groats, to look after your sick mother-in-law. If the landlord is a sentimental type, something like that might well do the trick. Okay, maybe that was a bit over the top, maybe just to the next county or shire. 

Good luck.

And remember to dump that last sentence whatever you do


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks Ox! As always some useful feedback. I was planning to go round with a bottle of wine as a peace offering and do it face to face... But I realised I'm a coward at heart! Maybe I should just man up eh? 

I don't think a white lie would work though as we don't plan on moving very far and he would see us in town. Thanks for the input.


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## BabaYaga (Feb 16, 2012)

I agree with Ox, if you signed a 4 year lease, you've got mega-groveling to do. If it's just till the end of the year, I hate to say this, as I am also a renter, but you should offer to pay him for 1 or 2 months (preferably at least 1/2 the agreed term) as additional notice as a 'buffer' amount to ease the time between you moving out and him selling the house. This might just be something I've learned from living in the 3rd world,  but damn if money doesn't almost always appease a temper.

And yeah, apologise like mad for the inconvenience and don't neg on his property- you want him to see how far up you are on the high road. 

I think you should follow up the letter with a personal visit, but it's actually a better idea to keep everything in writing- including his agreement to let you off early in exchange for your generous notice period. This way he can't come back and chase you for cash 6 months down the line. Think 'evidence'.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

I thought some more about this; contrary to what BY says about a signed lease, you indicated it was only a verbal agreement. So, there should be no problem with breaking it. Unless that is you feel duty-bound to honour a “gentleman’s agreement.” Or unless that word “initially” meant something more.

Whatever, when you get to talking to him about what you want, do this: state precisely what you want, without any equivocation or vagueness, then just SHUT UP and leave the ball in his court. Resist the temptation to add a let-out (for him) of any type. Provided you keep your mouth shut after stating exactly what you want, there’s every chance he’ll accede to your wishes. It’s an old selling trick.

The psychology behind it is that if you keep quiet, and if the other person is at first inclined to say “No”, then they are left arguing only with themselves, and eventually they have to come over to your side, in their mind, to win that argument. Neat trick, but it works.


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## Bloggsworth (Feb 16, 2012)

Terrible, why not tell him about your miserable holiday in Rhyll while you are at it!

Do you or do you not have a contract/lease, you tell us it was discussed, but not whether you got one? Do you have a rent book, a signed copy of the lease, a copy of the document proving that the landlord placed your deposit in escrow, that he has the correct _Landlord Insurance_? If you are missing all or some of these then no valid contract exists as the landlord hasn't complied with _The Landlord & Tenant Act_, these are the only facts germane to the issue, your future domestic arrangements are of no relevance and your statement that you can easily find accommodation elsewhere makes his life easy. The best thing you can do; depending on whether you actually have a lease, and its terms and conditions; is to throw it all back on him, something along the lines of:

Dear Mr. Landlord,

Further to your expressed wish for us to vacate the property we currently rent from you owing to your inability to finance the neccessary ongoing contractual maintainance requirements you must realize that this would cause some cost and disruption to our domestic arrangements and notwithstanding the strictures of _The Landlord & Tenant Act _we would under certain conditions be prepared to vacate the premises.

Yours sincerely

I M Potty.

See how he responds to you offering him a way out of his dilemma - He may even offer you money to leave, but failing that, the tone of your letter would confirm that he is the one who wishes to abrogate his responsibilities. What you need from him is written confirmation that you are walking away free and clear...

Asking for confirmation that he has paid the Tax on his income from the property is a good wheeze, after all, you don't want the taxman chasing you for tax he should have paid!


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## qwertyman (Feb 16, 2012)

You mention a 'Tenancy Agreement'; it is unusual for a residential tenancy to be for four years (it is outside the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement parameters).   

If it is solely a verbal agreement, does that mean there is no rent deposit? Is it furnished? Was the agreement for no rent increase for four years? In which case he seems like a decent bloke; I would be straight with him. Tell him you have to leave for personal reasons and leave it at that.

It would really get my back up to recieve the letter you propose. And the one Ox suggests presumes the landlord is an idiot, which might be true if he didn't take measures to protect himself from what is happening.

If there is any service you can offer to ease his pain, like offering to look for another Tenant or placing it with an agent on his behalf, suggest it.


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## Bloggsworth (Feb 16, 2012)

However nice the landlord is, his soliciter wont be, you must be the innocent party.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

> [ot]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 16, 2012)

> The reasons for doing so are varied but the main one being we would like to give you the opportunity to sell the property as you first wished.


My immediate reaction to this was "Well, that's a lie for a start off", nobody's main reason for leaving their home is so someone else can sell it! That then casts doubt on everything you say.

Bloggsworth has a good basic letter there, but like qwerty says if he has treated you decently it is good to reciprocate, I advocate the straight forward approach, and yes in person would be better, but only if you can maintain your resolution and cool.


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2012)

I can see I haven't explained our agreement properly... here goes! 

A year ago we found out about the house through a work mate. We set up an informal meeting with the landlord to descuss a 'deal'. Knowing that the landlord was wanting to sell the property after the previous tennant caused major issues we convinced him to allow us to rent for up to 4 years. The reason for this was to give myself and the other half time to save for a deposit on the property. After 4 years we would then purchase the property from him. He agreed.

The rent is managed through an estate agent and I have signed a fromal agreement where I rent the property for 1 yearly intervals, renewing every year. The renewal date is september. During the last year we have found out the landlord has been making regular checks on us and I'm failry suspicious (though no substantial evidence exists) that he has entered the property while we were out. (he offered to show us round the property while the previous tennant was occupying it without the guys knowledge "I can show you round quick if you want, I'm pretty sure the guy is at work")

We have rennovated his back garden but he got arsey during the yearly check saying it was in a bit of a mess and we had 1 week to tidy it up (despite the fact we had improved it after the previous tennant as a gesture of good will. We have also had his hallway replastered after the puppy ate the wall... again as a gesture of good will.)

He did seem like a decent bloke at first, but there have been several instances where we have been made to feel uncomfortable and "spied upon". The current problem with the house is massive damp ingress (which has written off some of our furniture and our collection of books) We didn't spot the severity of the problem until a few weeks ago when we rang the estate agent. Since then we have had a letter basically saying (but not offically stating... clever bloke) that he felt it was our fault the house has damp and made us to feel like villans for asking a retired couple to come and fix it at great expense to themselves. Which goes to show he probably doesnt have insurance. They are now quite rude with us... to the point of not even bother to say a simple goodbye when leaving the property.

On our tennancy agreement it states that a contract can be terminated early without having to pay for the reamining months if I get written permission from the landlord. The other option is to stop paying rent and just clear off as the contract says doing so would allow the landlord to re-enter and let it out again... but I'm not sure what effect on us doing so would cause.

Thats basically the long and short of it... now me and the missus feel very uncomfortable living here and we suspect, judging by his new attitude, that we will not have the tennancy renewed in sept. So we have decided to go back to square one and save everything we earn for the next 12 months giving us a sizeable deposit for our own house and clearing a few debts.

Thanks for all your comments so far. He is coming round this morning so I may mention something then.

*Edit: It isnt our fault on the damp issue, even the estate agent agreed we did everything right. Just thought I should mention that, its pretty clear its a structural issue... this is being ignored and "Air Bricks" are being installed to improve the circulation... So we don't really want to live in a damp and now draughty house!


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## Bloggsworth (Feb 16, 2012)

Olly Buckle said:


> My immediate reaction to this was "Well, that's a lie for a start off", nobody's main reason for leaving their home is so someone else can sell it! That then casts doubt on everything you say.
> 
> Bloggsworth has a good basic letter there, but like qwerty says if he has treated you decently it is good to reciprocate, I advocate the straight forward approach, and yes in person would be better, but only if you can maintain your resolution and cool.



My basic letter is straight and to the point - Remember, at the end of the day you will be dealing with his solicitors who will advise him to extract money from you to the maximum - Remember, he has already said he is short of money, when it comes to legal there is no such thing as commonsense, no such thing as friends, the law doesn't allow it; do what is best for your interests, take no account of the landlord's, his solicitor will push for the balance of the lease to be paid in full by somebody, and if the lease is properly written you are liable up until it ends, so even if the landlord finds another tenant, if that tenant defaults on the new tenancy, he will be legally allowed to come back to you to continue paying the rent until such time as the lease expires. You must be the hard man, he has given you an in by saying he can't afford to maintain the property, so use it to your advantage - As I said, the landlord may be nice, he will pay his solicitor to be nasty on his behalf, he can then shrug his shoulders and say "I_f it were up to me..."

_*Rule of thumb*: Do not trust landlords as far as you can throw the property you occupy (Unless it's a tent, in which case, don't trust them at all) - Remember, you will never see him again, he will never be in the pub standing his round; take no account of his feelings in this matter.

Oh - And change the locks and hook your computer up to a webcam to see if he enters the property while you are out. Unless you have blocked off air-bricks and leant stuff up against the wall so that condensation can form behind it, it is extremely unlikely that you could "cause" damp. Photograph everything, check the damp-course with particular reference to the ground level outside to see if it is higher than the damp-course, check the pointing to see if there are gaps, check that the air-bricks are not blocked, check the roof AND CHECK YOUR LEASE TO SEE IF IT IS A _FULL MAINTAINING AND REPAIRING LEASE_. Sounds like I read your landlord straight away - There is no such thing as a free lunch.

You must document everything, put your complaints in writing, all of them, and if you have a solicitor CC his name on the bottom of your letter and send him a copy for safekeeping, something like:

_Yours sincerely

I M Potty

cc Blenkinsop, Hardy & Dunn


_We are talking about your life here, don't let him stiff you.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

NOW all the worms are coming out of the woodwork. You’ve got yourself into a right old mess, haven’t you?

You possibly have some rights under the Landlord & Tenant Act. In this respect, maybe you could find a free solicitor, or a tenant’s advocate, to give you some advice. Free solicitors DO exist, you just have to know how to find them. If the owner can be shown to be negligent in some way – as far as maintenance is concerned – it might help you.

I’d be wary about doing a moonlight flit, as that could rebound on you in the form of a bad credit rating. On the other hand, if you truly believe you can justify it, and/or are prepared for any consequences, clearing out MIGHT BE the best option. 

“the puppy ate the wall” – the mind boggles. What type of puppy is it?


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2012)

Bloggsworth said:


> (Unless it's a tent, in which case, don't trust them at all)


 
Ha!

Well I just spoke to him. I said "Myself and the other half have had a good chat and we feel this will probably be the last year which we will rent the property." His eyes light up and he says "To be honest we probably wern't going to..." and stops himself from saying "Renew the contract anyway." I then say "I don't know how you feel about ending the agreement sooner than the contract length." He was practically jumping for joy. 

It's nice to feel wanted... FREEDOM!



			
				The Backward Ox said:
			
		

> What type of puppy is it?



A Labrador... they will eat anything.

It seems pretty prommising so far, I think he has realised that not having insurance has landed in him some poopy and just wants to offload the house onto someone else now


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

Potty said:


> Ha!
> 
> Well I just spoke to him. I said "Myself and the other half have had a good chat and we feel this will probably be the last year which we will rent the property." His eyes light up and he says "To be honest we probably wern't going to..." and stops himself from saying "Renew the contract anyway." I then say "I don't know how you feel about ending the agreement sooner than the contract length." He was practically jumping for joy.
> 
> ...



Note to BY, Bloggo, querty, Olly and self:* It's nice to feel wanted.

*I could have been watching some porn instead of scratching my head over you. Never again.:grumpy:


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2012)

Sorry Ox, had I known it would work out I wouldn't have posted! 

Cake?


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

That's alright, I was only kidding.

Stuff yer cake.


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2012)

What with?

What was the "It's nice to be wanted' thing all about... or is it an 'in' thing. To be honest I'm not going to start celebrating yet, for one thing I bet I'm going to have to fight to get my deposit back. This guys seems the sort to make problems where there shouldn't be any


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

Potty said:


> To be honest I'm not going to start celebrating yet, for one thing I bet I'm going to have to fight to get my deposit back. This guys seems the sort to make problems where there shouldn't be any



Oh, oh. Here we go again. At least now you may have the upper hand - If you're not moving out immediately, do not pay another farthing in rent. With a little bit of luck, unpaid rent will balance the deposit. Of course, the estate agent might send the enforcers around, but that's not my department.


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## Potty (Feb 16, 2012)

The Backward OX said:


> Oh, oh. Here we go again.




Am I missing something?


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## shadowwalker (Feb 16, 2012)

Not sure how things work over there - over here, the landlord is required to maintain the property at a certain basic level, so if he doesn't repair the place, you have grounds for breaking the lease. Landlords do have the right to require their permission before the tenant does anything to change the property (one place I rented I couldn't paint the interior w/o permission), so the garden might fall into that. Over here they have to give you notice before 'visits', whether you'll be home or not. However, they do have the right to make inspections, whether you're home or not.

As to the letter, make it strictly business. "We are requesting permission to terminate the lease as of such-and-such a date". Period. Unless the landlord is dying to get rid of you, I'd be surprised if they'd let you off without paying, though. But who knows?


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## patskywriter (Feb 16, 2012)

Potty said:


> … To be honest I'm not going to start celebrating yet, for one thing I bet I'm going to have to fight to get my deposit back. …



Wouldn't it be easier to simply "live out" the deposit? For example, if the amount of the deposit is equal to one month's rent, then let the deposit *be* the last month's rent. (Mind you, I don't live in the UK and don't know your rules/laws.)


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## Potty (Mar 17, 2012)

OMFG!

Update: So we are moving out as planned! yay! however for the last week we have been plauged by visits from the landlord. Not only that but we have found out that he has been into our house without our knowing and turned our gas heating off (So we would leave him some gas in the bottles for when we moved out.) I've been taking cold showers for days not wanting to buy new bottles!

In the words of the bleached haired lout at the local shop: Wot a propa nob.


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## Cefor (Mar 20, 2012)

Potty said:


> OMFG!
> 
> Update: So we are moving out as planned! yay! however for the last week we have been plauged by visits from the landlord. Not only that but we have found out that he has been into our house without our knowing and turned our gas heating off (So we would leave him some gas in the bottles for when we moved out.) I've been taking cold showers for days not wanting to buy new bottles!
> 
> In the words of the bleached haired lout at the local shop: Wot a propa nob.



What a tool. Turning off your heating has to be against some rules, surely?!

And, seriously, entering the property without your knowledge? That's just not on.


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## Potty (Mar 20, 2012)

He did it to the last guy, offered to show us round while he was at work. We are leaving at the end of the month and I have a VERY snotty letter prepared for when we hand the keys back. Don't think I'm going to post it up though... it hasn't got anything bad in it, just don't think people will agree the letter is a good idea. It made me feel better for writing it though.


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## Trilby (Mar 27, 2012)

I have an idea of how you must be feeling but to be honest, I'd take a deep breath, count to ten, forget the snotty letter, I'd hand back the keys and with head held high I would walk away and forget it.

Time is too precious to waste any more time on it than you need to. Best of luck!


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## shadowwalker (Mar 27, 2012)

Trilby said:


> I have an idea of how you must be feeling but to be honest, I'd take a deep breath, count to ten, forget the snotty letter, I'd hand back the keys and with head held high I would walk away and forget it.



Especially if you might need this guy as a financial reference at some point in the future.


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## jakebarrington (Apr 17, 2012)

I found the letter to be very respectful and thoughtful. I would send it.


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