# Food Nazis at work



## Ditch (Feb 14, 2012)

This is from Raeford, North Carolina. Carolina Journal. I'm gonna read it to you exactly as it printed out here: "A preschooler at West Hoke Elementary School ate three chicken nuggets for lunch Jan. 30 because a state employee told her the lunch her mother packed was not nutritious. The girl’s turkey and cheese sandwich, banana, potato chips and apple juice did not meet US Department of Agriculture guidelines, according to the interpretation of the agent who was inspecting all lunch boxes in her More at Four classroom that day."

This is incredible, the entire transcript is here...​Federal Agents Inspect Your Child's Lunch - The Rush Limbaugh Show


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## garza (Feb 14, 2012)

The agent was mistaken. The lunch the mother packed contained meat, milk product, vegetable, and two fruits. And most important of all, it was something the child would eat without supervision, as her mother explained.

Bureaucrats have a way of taking a good idea - let's be sure the kids have a good lunch - and turning it into something wicked. My father worked for 25 years for USDA. The stories he could tell...


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## Ditch (Feb 14, 2012)

Just what we need, federal agents peeking in our kids lunch box, that's money well spent Obama.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 14, 2012)

When I was a little kid, the govt provided free bottled milk to every school child. Thing was, the milk was delivered at the crack of dawn then sat outside in 85 degree heat until mid morning. Sour milk, anyone?


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## garza (Feb 14, 2012)

Suppose schools were encouraged to have a programme to educate both kids and parents about good nutrition. That would be cheaper and would have long range effects, lasting into the next generation, at least. 

USDA could make some practical recommendations about what kids should have for lunch, and schools could, at their discretion, use those recommendations as part of their local programme. The recommendations could be seasonally and regionally adjusted, so that parents would be encouraged to look for the fruits and vegetables they would be most likely to find at their local markets. A local school district could work with farmers' markets in the area to be able to say what would be plentiful, and thus cheap, at different times of the year. School canteens could offer suplements, rather than complete lunches as the parents chose. Bring your turkey and cheese sandwich, and we'll help you add what else you need. 

There are all sorts of ways of doing this. the simplest is to send a note home to parents, saying 'Be sure to pack a good lunch for your child'.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 14, 2012)

Or, if it is cannibal country, "Be sure to pack a good child for your lunch."


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## garza (Feb 14, 2012)

Go check on your 'roo.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 14, 2012)

Rolf Harris- Royal Albert Hall- Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport - YouTube


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## Rustgold (Feb 15, 2012)

Ditch said:


> "A preschooler at West Hoke Elementary School ate three chicken nuggets for lunch Jan. 30 because a state employee told her the lunch her mother packed was not nutritious. The girl’s turkey and cheese sandwich, banana, potato chips and apple juice did not meet US Department of Agriculture guidelines,



And three fat filled chicken nuggets did??
The only thing I see not nutritious is the packet of chips.  If this is the US Department of Agriculture guidelines..... hang on, why would DoA have an interest in this?  I wonder, would the chicken nuggets happen to be made by some special interest by any chance?


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## Katie D (Feb 15, 2012)

They all need a vegemite sanga, that'll fix 'em right up.


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## ppsage (Feb 15, 2012)

If you read the actual article, instead of Rush, everything in it is reaction to an unsubstantiated, anonymous assertion by a single individual. The inspector is not named, and no extant documentation of any such decision is proffered. The publicity apparently originates from the office of a republican state representative who is 'investigating.' The reply from an official of the accused agency sounds as if no such inspectors are actually attached to schools and that, if the incident occurred, it was occasioned by a misinterpretation made by school personell, who are definately not Obama employees in any sense. There is no indication of the federal administration under which the guidelines were promulgated and there is indeed considerable evidence that the requirement that federal GUIDELINES (not regulations) be met at all pre-schools is mandated by an agency of the state of North Carolina and has nothing whatsoever to do with federal policy.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 15, 2012)

I like pp.sage, us poor mortals get carried away by the propaganda from one side or the other, then he tells us it as it is, we need more of this.

The trouble is having watched "Jamie in America" it all seems only too plausible, I remember seeing an official on there arguing that a portion of fries (chips) constituted a 'vegetable', I suppose it does, but only like D.D.T. is an 'organic' molecule, nutritionally it's just fat and starch. We have all experienced the sort of blind, ignorant, obedience to authority that garza refers to, 'Little Hitlers' they were called in my youth.


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## Rustgold (Feb 15, 2012)

ppsage said:


> The inspector is not named,


As if a four year old is going to know who this person is.



ppsage said:


> who are definately not Obama employees in any sense.


Nobody mentioned Obama or Democrats until you, so this sounds like you're playing 'don't blame my guy'.



ppsage said:


> that the requirement that federal GUIDELINES (not regulations)


Let's not go around trying to be cute with words.  Guidelines come from Federal Government to be enforced by regulations by State Government.  A guideline is simply a way for a Federal Government to be cute and say 'Not I', and for State Government to have it's hands in the air and say 'We're only doing what we're been told to'.

In practice, there's no difference between a guideline & regulation, so this cuteness doesn't wash.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

ppsage said:


> If you read the actual article, instead of Rush, everything in it is reaction to an unsubstantiated, anonymous assertion by a single individual. The inspector is not named, and no extant documentation of any such decision is proffered. The publicity apparently originates from the office of a republican state representative who is 'investigating.'



It is being reported by sources other than Rush. What is glaringly obvious is that the liberal media is ignoring this story because it does not fit their agenda. And Rustgold, I did mention Obama in my original post because CNN, CNBC, MNABC and the others won't mention anything that might harm their media darling. Just another example of this administration poking their nose into our every orifice and every aspect of our life. This is Michele Obama's particular crusade, telling other people what to eat.

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-

http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-b...s-school-nuggets-sounds-like-a-toss-up-to-me/


Preschooler's Homemade Lunch Replaced With Nuggets | Fox News


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## garza (Feb 15, 2012)

Are any of those other sources reliable? Has any of this been substantiated by any source that is not tainted?

I didn't realise at first that you were quoting Limbaugh. He's a joke, as is Fox News. I'm going to use my sources to find out what this is all about.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

garza said:


> Are any of those other sources reliable? Has any of this been substantiated by any source that is not tainted?
> 
> I didn't realise at first that you were quoting Limbaugh. He's a joke, as is Fox News. I'm going to use my sources to find out what this is all about.



Other sources are reporting it. You may not like Rush or Fox news but Fox is the number one rated news station in the states. A lot of us don't like being spoon fed a liberal slant and at least one station reports the things that all of the others either ignore completely, or soft pedal. Most things that would raise an outcry from liberals when a conservative does it, are completely ignored when the shoe is on the other foot. I don't want this to degrade into a "who reported the story" as much as concentrating on the story itself because as I have said, the mainstream liberal media will not report on it because it makes their idol look bad.

Welcome to the Nanny State…School Lunch Inspections? « Crystal Clear Conservative

State employees inspecting school lunches in North Carolina | Radio Vice Online

State Inspectors Searching Children

Department of Home-Lunch Security - By Mark Steyn - The Corner - National Review Online


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## shadowwalker (Feb 15, 2012)

The Republicans will blame the Democrats, the Democrats will blame the Republicans - and more than likely any guidelines/regulations/whatever were formed over a period of time when both parties were "in charge". Just another [boring] example of partisan politics at work. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

Whoever is to blame, this intervention really needs to stop. Programs are in place to assist low income families with free school lunches. Inspecting a child's lunch, replacing it when it's healthy and charging the parents is ridiculous.


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## dale (Feb 15, 2012)

crap like this is why i'm glad indiana has a voucher system. no way will my kid go to a social conditioning public school to be indoctrinated at the whims
of statist politicians. even if i have to do something like join the catholic church in order for her to get an actual and decent academic
education.....then so be it.


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## dale (Feb 15, 2012)

and here's a "non-limbaugh" link on the subject for the people who like to dismiss anything with that kind of a slant.........

Preschooler's Homemade Lunch Replaced with Cafeteria "Nuggets"


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## garza (Feb 15, 2012)

But with all those sources you name you are being fed nothing but a conservative slant, and they all feed off one another the same way the far left media do. Have you read the USDA food lunch guidelines? Not someone's interpretation, but the actual guidelines. The implementing legislation in the various states and the case law which has resulted from legal actions are what need to be studied. Then you need to look at reports to agencies such as law enforcement, child and family welfare departments, state department of education rules, and local school board policy. Statements from school principals, teachers, and canteen supervisors need to be taken. 

So far as I've been able to find out, this story appears to be 90 percent fabrication built on an incident that may have happened. Almost for certain there was no USDA inspector involved. I'm continuing to look, but so far I have found nothing to substantiate the story as related by Limbaugh. 

There are code words and phrases which are a tip-off that there are no facts. In the liberal media the words fascist or Nazi are used to condemn any government action not approved of by the far left. Once one of those words is injected in a conversation there is no further need for producing substantive evidence to support a viewpoint. A popular phrase right now with the far right is nanny state. Again, once an action is described with that phrase, there is no need to offer proof of anything, no need to dig deeper. Spin the yarn and say it's an example of fascism or an example of a nanny state and the true believers will line up and say amen.

I knew Limbaugh a long, long time ago. I've known reporters for Fox News from the time Fox News started. In both cases the bottom line is the bottom line. How many dollars can we milk this cow for? They have the numbers because both cater to the latent prejudices in society.

There are intelligent voices throughout the political spectrum, not just in the U.S., but around the world. Unfortunately their voices are seldom heard above the shouted rhetoric of the extremists with single-track agendas to promote. Often, and this is increasingly the case in the U.S. judging by outward appearance, that single-track is either intended to lead to gaining power for a small clique, or amassing wealth for a few.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 15, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> The Republicans will blame the Democrats, the Democrats will blame the Republicans - and more than likely any guidelines/regulations/whatever were formed over a period of time when both parties were "in charge". Just another [boring] example of partisan politics at work. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## shadowwalker (Feb 15, 2012)

garza said:


> But with all those sources you name you are being fed nothing but a conservative slant, and they all feed off one another the same way the far left media do. Have you read the USDA food lunch guidelines?



The media is always slanted - which way it "slants" just depends on which side of the political spectrum one stands. If one wants a truly "objective" view, one has to read not only that with which one agrees but also those with which one disagrees - and read both with a _skeptical _mind. Leave blindly following political dogma to the politicians and their mouthpieces.


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## KangTheMad (Feb 15, 2012)

Hooo boy. Lets ease off the politics, else this should be moved to Debate.

I think Garza is on a good track with the validity of the information in the article.


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## dale (Feb 15, 2012)

garza said:


> But with all those sources you name you are being fed nothing but a conservative slant, and they all feed off one another the same way the far left media do. Have you read the USDA food lunch guidelines? Not someone's interpretation, but the actual guidelines. The implementing legislation in the various states and the case law which has resulted from legal actions are what need to be studied. Then you need to look at reports to agencies such as law enforcement, child and family welfare departments, state department of education rules, and local school board policy. Statements from school principals, teachers, and canteen supervisors need to be taken.
> 
> So far as I've been able to find out, this story appears to be 90 percent fabrication built on an incident that may have happened. Almost for certain there was no USDA inspector involved. I'm continuing to look, but so far I have found nothing to substantiate the story as related by Limbaugh.
> 
> ...



 yeah. but i don't see how anyone can be surprised at this taking place. nancy reagan had the war on drugs. rosylyn carter's obsession was mental health. barbara bush was literacy. michelle obama's little power trip is a healthy food criteria being dictated in schools. and this from a woman who admits to constantly shoveling french fries, ice cream, and spaghetti down her gullet.


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## Terry D (Feb 15, 2012)

This isn't the same incident, but it's the same mind set at work;

School's food is the only option for some kids - chicagotribune.com

A Chicago school doesn't feel comfortable that parents are smart enough to pack their kids lunches, so they have banned home made lunches altogether.  All kids are required to buy the school's idea of a healthy lunch.  And you'll notice the article is in the Chicago Tribune.


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## KangTheMad (Feb 15, 2012)

That ain't right. I would love myself a home-made roast-beef sammich with deli mustard. Plus, school lunches are rather pricey.


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## dale (Feb 15, 2012)

KangTheMad said:


> That ain't right. I would love myself a home-made roast-beef sammich with deli mustard. Plus, school lunches are rather pricey.



i don't know about chicago, but here in indy, school lunches are free; regardless of household income. well, not really free, the taxpayer pays, of course.
but no parent has to pay directly for their kid's lunch.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

dale said:


> yeah. but i don't see how anyone can be surprised at this taking place. nancy reagan had the war on drugs. rosylyn carter's obsession was mental health. barbara bush was literacy. michelle obama's little power trip is a healthy food criteria being dictated in schools. and this from a woman who admits to constantly shoveling french fries, ice cream, and spaghetti down her gullet.



Don't forget the French Fries and Fatcakes in Botswana.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

Terry D said:


> This isn't the same incident, but it's the same mind set at work;
> 
> School's food is the only option for some kids - chicagotribune.com
> 
> A Chicago school doesn't feel comfortable that parents are smart enough to pack their kids lunches, so they have banned home made lunches altogether.  All kids are required to buy the school's idea of a healthy lunch.  And you'll notice the article is in the Chicago Tribune.



From that link..._Any school that bans homemade lunches also puts more money in the pockets of the district's food provider, Chartwells-Thompson. The federal government pays the district for each free or reduced-price lunch taken, and the caterer receives a set fee from the district per lunch.
​_Politics aside, this is a prime example of government overreaching into our lives.


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## KangTheMad (Feb 15, 2012)

Well, I think the free lunch program is good. I knew several people on it, and yeah, they needed it.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

KangTheMad said:


> Well, I think the free lunch program is good. I knew several people on it, and yeah, they needed it.



They didn't have free lunch when I went to school. We had to lick the streets as we crawled miles uphill to school through the snow. When we got home, our fathers would beat us within inches of our lives.


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## Terry D (Feb 15, 2012)

Ditch said:


> They didn't have free lunch when I went to school. We had to lick the streets as we crawled miles uphill to school through the snow. When we got home, our fathers would beat us within inches of our lives.



And we were thankful for the opportunity!


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## ppsage (Feb 15, 2012)

Ditch said:


> It is being reported by sources other than Rush. What is glaringly obvious is that the liberal media is ignoring this story because it does not fit their agenda. And Rustgold, I did mention Obama in my original post because CNN, CNBC, MNABC and the others won't mention anything that might harm their media darling. Just another example of this administration poking their nose into our every orifice and every aspect of our life. This is Michele Obama's particular crusade, telling other people what to eat.
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-
> 
> ...




The examiner link seems dead I think. The other two seem to be reporting only the originally published article without further investigation.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

ppsage said:


> The examiner link seems dead I think. The other two seem to be reporting only the originally published article without further investigation.



Perhaps this mother was only interviewed and only gave her story to one news source.

I don't know why people find this so hard to believe when the amount of water a toilet flushes, the number of legs on an office chair has and too many other things to mention are now regulated by our government.


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## KangTheMad (Feb 15, 2012)

Ditch said:


> They didn't have free lunch when I went to school. We had to lick the streets as we crawled miles uphill to school through the snow. When we got home, our fathers would beat us within inches of our lives.



I'd say it changed for the better then.


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## ppsage (Feb 15, 2012)

Suppose an article surfaced, in the Village Voice say, wherein an anonymous individual claimed her service contract with a notoriously conservative pastor had been illegally cancelled due to prejudice for her sexual preferences. Suppose the information leading to this article seemingly originated from the office of Barney Franks, although the only direct statement of that was that an investigation might be in progress. Suppose the only named quotation in the article was from a member of the denomination's national council whose reasonable and detailed explanation of official policy and it's implementation and the possible ways it could have miscarried were so butchered in quotation as to require diligent study just to discern hints of the original. Suppose Ed Schultz picked this up and trumpeted it as proof that religion was everywhere a corrupting influence and within hours all his cronies repeated his assertations. With the bar of proof thus set so high, I'm sure no one here would question the truth of the article or the validity of Shultz's opinion.


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## dale (Feb 15, 2012)

ppsage said:


> Suppose an article surfaced, in the Village Voice say, wherein an anonymous individual claimed her service contract with a notoriously conservative pastor had been illegally cancelled due to prejudice for her sexual preferences. Suppose the information leading to this article seemingly originated from the office of Barney Franks, although the only direct statement of that was that an investigation might be in progress. Suppose the only named quotation in the article was from a member of the denomination's national council whose reasonable and detailed explanation of official policy and it's implementation and the possible ways it could have miscarried were so butchered in quotation as to require diligent study just to discern hints of the original. Suppose Ed Schultz picked this up and trumpeted it as proof that religion was everywhere a corrupting influence and within hours all his cronies repeated his assertations. With the bar of proof thus set so high, I'm sure no one here would question the truth of the article or the validity of Shultz's opinion.



it seems you're just very much not wanting to believe it. which is understandable. people from both sides of the political
aisle do this on various topics. take a political sex scandal, for example. the truth really doesn't matter. one side defends
and denies for the accused, the other side wholeheartedly believes the accusation, regardless of how much or little evidence.
i've been watching these schools usurp more and more power from parents though, for years. it's either the state legislating
power of the school over the parent...or the state asserting that even the child has power over the parent. so really, this
little incident is trivial enough that there's no way i don't believe it.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

ppsage said:


> Suppose an article surfaced, in the Village Voice say, wherein an anonymous individual claimed her service contract with a notoriously conservative pastor had been illegally cancelled due to prejudice for her sexual preferences. Suppose the information leading to this article seemingly originated from the office of Barney Franks, although the only direct statement of that was that an investigation might be in progress. Suppose the only named quotation in the article was from a member of the denomination's national council whose reasonable and detailed explanation of official policy and it's implementation and the possible ways it could have miscarried were so butchered in quotation as to require diligent study just to discern hints of the original. Suppose Ed Schultz picked this up and trumpeted it as proof that religion was everywhere a corrupting influence and within hours all his cronies repeated his assertations. With the bar of proof thus set so high, I'm sure no one here would question the truth of the article or the validity of Shultz's opinion.



A service contract cancellation from a conservative pastor for the clients sexual preferences is not what is being discussed and is a totally different subject. 


I'm sure the woman's story can be corroborated as it was in the other newspaper article about other students that was posted earlier in this thread. My memory of school lunches is that they weren't that good. Any time you cook for hundreds the food isn't as good as it is when it is individually prepared. The very idea of some entity inspecting our children's lunches, then replacing them and charging the parents for an inferior meal infringes on our individual freedom of choice. As I said, free lunches are available for those who can't afford a nutritious lunch, don't peek in my kids lunch box.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

It's not as if this will cause the end of the world as we know it, it is just another chip as they chip away at parental rights and our freedom. Schools in Texas still seem to think they can bend your child over and hit them with a board. You have to sign a lot of forms when you register your child, and you had better read them. I made it very clear that no one was to hit my child, to call me if the infraction was that bad. One teacher had the shop teacher make her paddles, "Mr. Brown" for minor infractions and "The Executioner" as she called it for major infractions. A parent would be charged with child cruelty if they did the same. It just makes me sick to see the government with their nose in every aspect of our lives.


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## themooresho (Feb 15, 2012)

This is just one more reason why I want to homeschool my kids.  But of course, how long before we have no freedom to do that either?


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## ppsage (Feb 15, 2012)

It's one thing to argue on a forum the believability of an article's unproven assertions on the basis of it's triviality. It's quite another to use a compendium of such anecdotal assertions as the basis of one's civic participation, even in the face of incessant urging from commercial media.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

Ppsage, why do you insist that this is fabricated or "unproven assertions?" The story just broke and a simple Google search yields full pages of hits reported to the Carolina Journal. If there was no basis to this, the school would have refuted the story by now. Why is this small amount of state control so hard to believe or accept when we now have....

Afghanistan Czar - Richard Holbrooke AIDS Czar - Jeffrey CrowleyAuto Recovery czar - Ed Montgomery*Border Czar - Alan Bersin* Car Czar - Ron Bloom Central Region Czar - Dennis Ross Domestic Violence Czar - Lynn Rosenthal *Drug Czar - Gil Kerlikowske *Economic Czar - Paul Volcker Energy and Environment Czar - Carol Browner Faith-Based Czar - Joshua DuBois Great Lakes Czar - Cameron Davis Green Jobs Czar - Van Jones (resigned on Sept. 6)Guantanamo Closure Czar - Daniel FriedHealth Czar - Nancy-Ann DeParle_Information Czar - Vivek Kundra_International Climate Czar - Todd Stern Mideast Peace Czar - George MitchellPay Czar - Kenneth Feinberg *Regulatory Czar - Cass Sunstein **Science Czar - John Holdren Stimulus Accountability Czar - Earl Devaney - statutory position Sudan Czar - J. Scott Gration *TARP Czar - Herb Allison* Terrorism Czar - John Brennan *Technology Czar- Aneesh Chopra *Urban Affairs Czar - Adolfo Carrion Jr. *Weapons Czar - Ashton Carter* WMD Policy Czar - Gary Samore​


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## Eluixa (Feb 15, 2012)

You can bring a horse to water... but you cannot make a kid like mine eat yoghurt if they don't want to. You could try and force feed them, but some kids will just vomit or gag. I personally agree that I don't want anyone in my kids lunch boxes, but I try not to give anyone reason to worry either. However, I remember hearing as a child about children bringing empty lunch bags to school and pretending they had something to eat. And then free and reduced lunches were made. And as a child, I got these free lunches. Still, if a kid does not like what is on the plate, it will be tossed. I ate very well at home, even though we were poor, so I could live with not eating something I did not like. Not a good idea to assume. Whoever took the child's lunch away, made an arse out of themselves, assuming the story was accurate or true. I do see it as a breakdown of trust in family and mothering. Not gonna blame Obama for it though. He did not take the lunch away, it was bad judgement on the part of the taker. The principal seemed both uninterested and incompetent, so no help there, when there should have been.
It boils down to paying attention to the children you are responsible for as a school. If Sadie always brings a lunch, and is energetic, more or less cooperative and happy, leave her alone. If Anthony only gets twinkies, rather than making everyone eat nuggets, bring his parents in and talk to them. I am seeing across the board rules made even at our Montessori, to avoid direct communication with the people that are actually causing the problem. Or give direct aid to the child that is hungry and malnourished. That means that there is someone paying attention, and that is fair and good. Trying to make an example of children and mothers for someone's Samaritan agenda, is not.
My twins, 8, eat school lunches on occasion. They have a calendar and if they like what is for lunch at school, we don't make one at home. Mostly we pack lunch. Sometimes one takes a lunch and the other does not. Sometimes they eat almost everything, school's or home. Sometimes half their lunch comes back untouched. Sometimes they are hungry after school, and they ate all their lunch, sometimes they forget to eat, too busy chatting or just not hungry at the time. No matter how balanced the lunch is, the kids choose what goes into their stomachs on any given day. 
People are just too different, families, cultures and needs are different. Most parents are accountable. That does leave a few to watch out for, and I don't think that is too much to ask of a community. I do think the community is where the help needs to come from though to see that what is available can be used. I do think free and reduced lunches being available as a government program is right. I believe in the right to an education and food provided during that time in school, most especially as everyday it becomes more a rule than a right. I don't believe you can make a kid eat everything on the plate though, nor should you even try. 
We don't want schools saying 'not my problem', or taking our kids lunches, something having to do with helping on an individual basis makes most sense. That involves care, trust and common sense judgement, and if we can't trust our schools to keep an eye out, our kids should probably not be there.


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## Ditch (Feb 15, 2012)

Good points Eluixa. But it made me think that soon we will also have to provide politically and religiously correct food if there is one particular minority child, such as absolutely no pork products, peanuts and of course, a special meal for the vegan kids... if they are not doing that already. God forbid they threw out a Muslim's or Jewish kids lunch and served the poor unsuspecting kid some ham. How are they to know what the parents religious beliefs are?


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## garza (Feb 16, 2012)

I don't know what is 'politically correct' about good nutrition. That's a new one on me. The USDA school lunch guidelines were not developed by politicians but by nutritionists and there is nothing strange about any of it. 

The guidelines are *here*.

Anyroad, I'm continuing to dig. I have sent requests for specific information regarding the original incident to several individuals not connected with media or government who are in a position to know the facts. One of the advantages of over half a century as a reporter is the list of contacts I've developed and maintained over those years. How many will be willing to comment on a hot potato such as this I don't know. That in itself will be revealing - who will talk about it and who won't. Maybe I'm going to have to break retirement and go up there. It's tempting. I've not been in the U.S. since the oil spill, and I only went then because of the promise of a nice piece of change and a chance to cover a story working with my son, something that happens all too seldom.

Most of the Internet sites that turn up in response to searches appear to be feeding off one another, going by time/date stamps and use of key phrases. If you backtrack you will find that almost all the sites are politically connected, and the few that aren't have the latest time/date stamps and are the most derivative indicating they are only relaying what was first put up on the other sites and have no original sources.


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## IanMGSmith (Feb 16, 2012)

garza said:


> Most of the Internet sites that turn up in response to searches appear to be feeding off one another, going by time/date stamps and use of key phrases. If you backtrack you will find that almost all the sites are politically connected, and the few that aren't have the latest time/date stamps and are the most derivative indicating they are only relaying what was first put up on the other sites and have no original sources.



Nice going Garza, seems like it's an ongoing investigation with local bodies pressing for answers 

Not sure if this helps any? - Preschooler’s Homemade Lunch Replaced with Cafeteria “Nuggets”

Best

Ian


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## ppsage (Feb 16, 2012)

IanMGSmith said:


> Nice going Garza, seems like it's an ongoing investigation with local bodies pressing for answers
> 
> Not sure if this helps any? - Preschooler’s Homemade Lunch Replaced with Cafeteria “Nuggets”
> 
> ...



This is the original article with a slight addendum concerning their inability to garner comment from agencies with which the original established an obvious adversarial relationship. I feel silly trying to trod in Garza's footsteps here but in my amatur chasing links research, in the sampling I've done, nobody adds anything to this nor quotes any other source except some very slight exerpting from the policy documents themselves and a great deal of congratulatory reportage on watching it go viral. For full disclosure, I admit that I gave up chasing that stuff last night and probably won't resume unless there an important "break," notice of which I will await in this space.


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## garza (Feb 16, 2012)

Is that the original version of that story? 

Seems to me that when I read it the first time it was different, and did not contain as much information, including the statement by the spokeswoman for the Division of Child Development. She stated what is obvious. The lunch the mother packed meets USDA guidelines. Was all that information there from the beginning, including the notation that nothing is to be taken away, but the child's lunch only supplemented if need be?

It's the school that's at fault. Someone there does not understand the rules. Perhaps they never will.

Much ado about nothing.

Edit - If the article is the same as when I first saw it, then I really am losing it.


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## Kevin (Feb 16, 2012)

USDA- back in my day, ketchup was considered a "vegetable".  That's right. Bite that little foil packet. Suck the goo out. Now you've had one "serving" of...


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## Rustgold (Feb 16, 2012)

garza said:


> Is that the original version of that story?
> Edit - If the article is the same as when I first saw it, then I really am losing it.



Quote : "*Editor's note, Feb. 15: The first two paragraphs of this story were updated.*"

Btw : That wasn't the only alteration made.  So no, you're not losing it, unless we all are.


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## garza (Feb 16, 2012)

Ketchup is tomato sauce, and tomato is normally regarded as a vegetable, though technically it's a fruit. For the ketchup to qualify as a vegetable serving there had to be a certain quantity - I think maybe two fluid ounces - and a high quality - meaning mostly tomato. That was changed because so many people don't know what ketchup is. The nutritionists at USDA try to pick their battles, giving in to ignorance when necessary so long as nutrition standards do not suffer. That does not change the physical fact, of course, that a couple of ounces of a good quality ketchup is, in fact, a vegetable serving.

For those who are interested, *here* is a link to the most recently published USDA 'Rules and Regulations for the National School Lunch and School Breakfast Programs' (sic). This is from the _Federal Register_, required reading, along with the _Congressional Record_, if you want to keep up with what's going on in the U.S. Government.


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## garza (Feb 16, 2012)

Rustgold - Thank you. I was worried.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 16, 2012)

garza said:


> That does not change the physical fact, of course, that a couple of ounces of a good quality ketchup is, in fact, a vegetable serving.



Nor does it change the fact, depending on who you listen to, that the lycopene in tomatoes is an anti-cancer agent or that tomatoes cause ulcers.


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## garza (Feb 17, 2012)

Many food items can cause ulcers in a person who is susceptible. My brother had problems with ulcers from the time he was in his twenties. On the other hand, I have for years dropped a gramme of aspirin a day and all my life have loved great quantities of citrus juice, tomatoes, chilli peppers, and all the other foods that 'cause ulcers'. I'm 71 and do not now nor have I ever had an ulcer. 

What I find interesting, and what I suspect will eventually make its way into the nutrition guidelines, is the difference between tomatoes eaten raw and tomatoes eaten cooked. Both are beneficial, but in different ways. We've known for a very long time that over-cooking vegetables, or cooking them at a high temperature, either destroys or leaches out vitamins found in vegetables. But there are other changes that happen when some vegetables are cooked. Beneficial nutrients in some vegetables, notably tomatoes, become more accessible to the body when the vegetable is cooked. The same would be true, I should think, of near relatives of the tomato such as sweet pepper, or maybe all peppers. 

While all nutrition guidelines from reputable sources have much in common, they all are works-in-progress. This is a breaking story, as we say, so stay tuned.


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## JosephB (Feb 17, 2012)

When it comes to nutrition, kids are weird. Mine are 6 and 8 -- the oldest loves fruit and vegetables, always eats what's given to her with few complaints. Our youngest is very picky -- loves pasta, cheese, bread etc. but won't eat veggies and doesn't like fruit all that much either. Pick your battles, as they say, so we don't force her to eat anything, don't insist she cleans her plate. If there's something new -- we just make sure that she at least tries it. Sometimes I wonder how she gets enough calories or nutrition -- and I doubt that her diet comes close to meeting USDA guidlines. Yet both girls both very healthy, well within normal weight ranges and well above average in height -- and my youngest is a tireless little ball of energy. So who knows.


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