# Battle strategy



## Kehawin (Jul 18, 2013)

In my WIP, near the end, there is going to be a need for a siege or infiltration of a castle.

My MC is a female, and is the rightful ruler of a "kingdom" that has been taken over by the antagonist.  She has, in the beginning of the novel, absolutely no experience in strategy of any kind whatsoever.  Her brother, who will be a part of the final action, is a chess and video game enthusiast.  

So with that background, I am trying to brainstorm for what the final scene will involve.  And I am as clueless as my MC.  I need to start researching, but right now it is only a vague idea that there is going to have to be a climactic battle/victory.  Right now my intention is that it will be less blood guts and glory and a little more long term strategy and set up - like placing all the dominoes in the right position, with the main action scene being the knocking over of the final dominoe and a single battle at the end.

I want it to be significant, of course, but not gratuitous violence.  

Any recommendations of either historical/biographies that I can read, or great fiction, that can give me some ideas on what elements I can use as dominoes, and strategy for a good climax?

I don't know if I am making sense, hopefully somebody understands and can make recommendations.


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## DPVP (Jul 18, 2013)

So let me make shore I understand this. You want someway to take over a castle that does not involve a long siege or direct assault? 

So some type of subdafuge. What time period is it? Why not look up how different castle fell in that time period?


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## Nickleby (Jul 18, 2013)

Can you be more specific? Do you want these "dominoes" to be physical events, strategic shifts, mental triggers, something else, or a combination? Must everything take place in the vicinity of the castle? Do the besieged have allies who might come to help? What resources do the attackers have? What defenses does the castle have? Is it on a hill, inside a moat, on an island?


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## Kehawin (Jul 18, 2013)

All very good questions!  

The premise is essentially North America where people of Celtic descent and Native Americans co-exist and there never was the Roman Empire.  So organized battle formations are not really known on the continent (the American continents do not have much interaction with the European continents, for many reasons, so the fact that Greeks and Huns etc had organized battle formations is irrelevant).  The castles evolved from hill barrows and mounds, and their main defensive purpose was against arrows and broad sword wielding individuals.  So, the outside of the castle will be round, and approximately like an upside down step pyramid.  The bottom level is just essentially a stone wall (10 ft high) with an open area courtyard.  Each level above that will overhang (to the outside) the one below it by about 5 ft, with murder holes in the floor.  The access stairs to the upper levels are in the courtyard - wrought iron tightly spiraled stairs.

So yes, subterfuge with physical confrontation minimal between only protag and antag.  The people in this reality have traditionally been, if not allies, at perpetual truce for many hundreds of years.  The antag has convinced some of the kingdom (each kingdom is only about 40-60 miles circumference) to follow him - had a mini-coup about 10 years before.  Those who didn't follow him were killed or ran to surrounding kingdoms.  Meanwhile he (the antag) has caused the truce between the natives and the C.descendants to fall apart, so the surrounding kingdoms are forced to defend themselves from the threat of attack and can't organize to oust the usurper.  My MC and her brother are the children of the real ruler, but grew up unaware of any of it.  When they find out, they must take their kingdom back.  But they are 14 and 15 years old, with no previous training.  They do have support of a few other kingdoms, as well as make allies among some of the Natives (Lakota, the strongest tribe, but not the only one).  

So, hopefully that helps describe my MCs "resources".  This is the hardest part of writing for me:  I don't write murder mysteries for a reason!  So, I have read Song of Ice and Fire and got a feel for how some other authors manipulate overthrows, but since there is no closure in that book... haha.  I haven't read much other fantasy-genre stuff in a long time, so I am looking for recommendations for the plotting and scheming type of overthrow.


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## Omi (Jul 18, 2013)

What's the relative level of technology? Is it an alt-history modern day with some differences? or an alt-history middle ages with some differences? 

I ask because you mention video games but they're still using broadswords, bows and castles? Has the antag holed up in an obsolete fortification for some reason or has weapons and intelligence technology stalled?

Who's in there with him? Civilians or soldiers?

You could go with a Trojan Horse method. Have the protag hide in some supplies that are carted in, wait until nightfall and then sneak around. Simple. Could be supplies that aren't checked over very often.

Alternately, if there's only soldiers inside the castle you could surround the castle with an army but not attack it. Stop any supply trains coming in and basically starve them to death. For added fun, let one food supply cart through but not before you've poisoned the food inside. Should be a long term poison so that everyone inside ingests it before the poison kills them all at once. No bloodshed or direct confrontation.

Long before you attack, have an ally go undercover inside the castle. On the night of the subterfuge just have them leave the gate unlocked.


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## Kehawin (Jul 18, 2013)

Excellent thoughts, Omi.  To answer your question, It is a "traveling between realities" situation.  So the antag lives in the reality described above, where the culture is more medieval than modern, but not a mirror image of the middle ages (basically they have had no reason to evolve much, and no desire to, but small improvements have happened nonetheless).  It takes place now, but without any of our cultural revolutions having taken place (Renaissance,  technological, electricity, etc). The MCs have grown up in our reality, but once done with puberty are transported between the two realities at regular intervals.
(since it is a curse, they of course are not allowed to bring items between the two realities, so no guns allowed lol.  But their knowledge, their conceptualization comes with them, so they could theoretically use knowledge to invent something there - if I need to use that option - so the idea of poison has already entered my mind.  But, is poisoning the antag and many of the people who are ultimately her subjects heroic?)  I need to make the victory decisive, but would rather end with the antag either disappearing or being held captive rather than death - I don't think that would be something my protag could handle and stay sane.

Thanks for that idea!  I also wanted to add another reason why I am looking for a movie or story to get ideas from:  One of the MCs personality quirks is that she is a huge movie buff and uses movie lines as reference constantly.


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## DPVP (Jul 18, 2013)

So how many soldiers do they have in the castle if its only a 40 to 60 mile cercomfrance kingdoms. Sounds like small armies. 

You can use a non lethal poison or substance in the food to neutralize the majority of the enemy soldiers.

It whould be eassy to make gunpowder 75% pattasism nitrate, 15% chacole, 10% sulfur. Bringing new loud weapons to the battle field chould win the war psychologically.


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## Kehawin (Jul 18, 2013)

Yes, quite small armies, more like militias I guess, though of course they wouldn't call them that.

Thanks for the ideas.  I have just read a reference to U.K. LeGuin's Earthsea books - I think I will watch the movie (quicker than reading the books, though not even close to enjoyable)... any other recommendations?


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## Nickleby (Jul 18, 2013)

So the MCs can travel between worlds. Is the mechanism voluntary? If so, could they travel to the castle's location in our world and shift to the same location in the other world? That might be an easy way to get in (and out if necessary).

One strategy might be a series of feints. Make it look like the good guys are massing at Point A, and the bad guys will send an opposing force. Only it's a decoy. Do the same at B (and C and D) to siphon off more troops. Take the main castle (and the antagonist) before any of those troops can get home again. The main body of your troops, who were near the castle all along, can take on the smaller bad units individually. If they're smart, though, those smaller units won't come back.

Then there's the "Connecticut Yankee" angle. The MCs can show their people how to build catapults, stronger swords, better armor. Look at the crossbow. It doesn't take much training, it's small, and it's deadly. One unit of crossbowmen could hold off a larger force or rout an entire flank if they'd hadn't seen that weapon in action before. If the enemies face a new and deadlier weapon in every battle, they're not going to stay enemies for long.


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## Kehawin (Jul 18, 2013)

The traveling is involuntary but predictable (with experience).   That idea (controlling where the transition occurs) is actually part of the plot already.  But the antag is waiting for that to happen, and is aware of when it would occur, so it might be something they can consider (even try, causing a disaster) but it wouldn't work, the antag is one step ahead of them.

I like your other suggestions.  Thanks.  

Because there is so much backstory to this thing, I am afraid that I may have to make it two books to avoid an infodump or some cheesy device like a history book covering 2400 years conveniently found written in English for the main character to find.  (JUST KIDDING, no way).  At this point in time, the draft has only just begun introducing her first clueless moments in the alternate reality.  It's already 17,000 words at the "end of act 1".  Explaining all the backstory is going to take some doing, so I either have to simplify the backstory (pointless, because it was the backstory that created the characters and plot in my mind), cut out the lead up and character intros, make the book two books, or make the conflicts quickly and easily solved (not much of an interesting story on that path).  So I am back to the drawing board on how the final resolution will play out.

Amazing how you think you can have your story worked out, then you start to write it and realize the details were too vague in your mental outline!


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## Lewdog (Aug 8, 2013)

If I'm visualizing your castle correctly, then the weakness would be at the top, since the archers are firing from murder holes in the bottom.  That would entail the use of long planks from the top ground directly to the top, or the use of ladders.  In the middle ages, they would use siege towers so that they could have their own archers that were behind a defenseable moving structure that could also be used to get over walls.  They looked like this:


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## Kehawin (Aug 8, 2013)

The murder holes are for defending against siege weapons directly below the overhang/murder hole.  The archers defending the castle will be on top of it - and perhaps firing out of regular arrow slits on other levels.  The pic you included could be useful, and I will file it in with my resources, thanks.  

The "castle" was designed to defend against archers by being round (no corners to hide behind) and by having the highest levels further out than the lowest.  It was designed against anyone coming over the walls by having it accessible only be one gate in the round lower level, and unclimbable otherwise (using the upside down step idea and the murder holes directly OVER access to the lower levels).  The castles are built essentially on a low artificial hill. and each level is about 10 feet tall - would be pretty hard to create a ladder that tall.  Since the societies have been at truce for many generations, one being mostly sword wielding and the other being mostly bow wielding, I'm not terribly sure how to give the aggressors the upper hand without destroying the idea of the castle being unbreachable by design.

Thanks again!


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## Lewdog (Aug 8, 2013)

Well these siege towers that I am talking about are rather tall, and hold quite a few men.  For example, the full size version of the one pictured would be nearly 40 foot tall.


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## Fred (Aug 29, 2013)

I realise that I'm very late to the party, but your castle design caught my attention. It strikes me that an inverted pyramid would be extremely unstable, and would topple with the slightest assault from any trebuchet that could hit the supporting wall. I would suspect that the standard method to undo such a defence would be to mine underneath and destabilise the entire structure cheaply.

As powerful symbols of authority and intimidation as well as formidable defensive structures, castle design in Europe reached a peak of efficiency around the 13th century, and you may find it useful to look at the string of castles built by Edward I to subdue the Welsh. There is no need to build a round structure to accommodate defending bowmen, and towers and walls will provide ample line of sight and plenty of coverage. Round towers were developed to try and reduce the damage inflicted upon stone walls by heavy siege weapons like trebuchets and early cannons.

Of course, this is your world, and if your castles are the pinnacle of political and military posturing then maybe no-one has before had the temerity to challenge them? If I was your dispossessed princess or her brother and had a clue about the tactics available to medieval armies when faced with a stone fortress, I'd dig a shaft under the lower walls, light a fire, and wait for the castle's unstable top-heavy design, and gravity, to do the rest.


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## Lewdog (Aug 29, 2013)

Or they could just bombard the castle with packages of spoiled meat and dead cows with a trebechet.  That wouldn't take long to get the people of the castle to surrender.


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## Kehawin (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks, Fred.  The situation is an alternate reality, so in my mind 4000 years of difference would make a huge difference in architecture, too.  Both the Celts and the Aboriginals of the continent of North America built mostly round houses.  Thus, my mind came up with that being consistent without the influence of Rome (the main difference in that reality is that Rome was conquered when it was just an Estruscan City State and never came to power).  Another commonality between the two cultures was the mound.  Mound builders here in NA are relatively mysterious, but many Celtic (or more accurately Brittano-Celtic) archaeology sites show that there was definite mound building going on Pre-Rome in the British Isles as well.  Maiden Castle, one of the oldest on the Isles, apparently originated as a mound defense.   So, what, I thought, would be the logical architecture of a people descended from Celts/Gauls who settled in North America and had to defend themselves from the descendants of peoples like the Aztecs and Maya and Lakota and Mohawk, etc.?  Rather than the inverted pyramid itself, what I came up with was something not triangular but round - built on a mound,  and designed with defense against stealth and archery in mind.  It may not be what others would come up with if tasked with coming up with something, but I want to stay far away from "traditional" castles if I can, since even though the Norman French were also from the area that the Gauls lived in, they were heavily Romanized by the time castles hit their pinnacle and therefore influenced by Roman villas - the first square buildings that I am aware of (I may be wrong, but I am no architectural historian).  

The biggest concern is that my main character needs to take over control of the "castle" with little to no masonry damage, as the castle is also her birthright.  Damaging it would be like setting your house on fire to get rid of squatters - effective, maybe, but only as a last resort and more out of principle than wisdom.

I am still stuck on the chapter where my MC learns from the Lakota medicine woman, so right now this is all seeming pointless.    Perhaps in two months when I finally undergo my "emergency" surgery I will have some nice pain-killer induced insights inspire me.


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## Lewdog (Aug 29, 2013)

Disease and waiting out the people of the castle running out of resources wouldn't cause any damage..except maybe fill it with dead bodies.  :lol:

Good luck with your surgery!


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## Caragula (Sep 1, 2013)

A lot of successful sieges happened by miners going under the walls, lighting large fires to heat up the stone to force it to crack and crack the walls above to gain entrance.  I read of a siege where the defenders put large bronze plates of water around the perimeter walls and where the water rhythmically tremored they knew there was digging.  Countermining also happened and fights with anything from bears to beehives, smoke etc. went on 

Much depends on the specific design of the castle, how its walls are arranged and its strong and weak aspects in relation to its environment, all these things affect both the attackers' and defenders' strategies.

There was a fabulous story of a soldier that scaled the castle walls, got into the lord's chambers and got him and his wife out without alerting anyone, remarkable.  The other was the soldier that scaled the walls, sought out the Castellan's wife, seduced her and got her to open the gates.

When castles 'hit their pinnacle' they were rounded to deflect cannon and trebuchet shots, rather than square.


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## gabriel lockhart (Sep 23, 2013)

battle formations have and will always exist even amongst completely untrained individuals... and bearing in mind that the mc's brother is chess player he would have at least some limited understanding of tactics and battle formations. with defensive walls, ten foot is small and wouldn't take much to breach... old school medieval walls where five or six foot thick with stone outside and inside usually granite and filled with tempered earth. it is also stands to reason if the city is basically pyramidal with distinct levels it would be very hard to lay siege to that in a short period of time as sieges by their very nature are long drawn out affairs. so infiltration would be suited to solve this problem rather then an actual siege. 

also if the society has the architectural knowledge to build such a city in a violent time the wall would be much larger much like the Derawar fort in India would be closer to the wall in question then a ten meter high defensive wall.


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## dakota.potts (Oct 2, 2013)

Is there any trade going on? Cutting supply lines could be an effective strategy. If they're waiting for reinforcements, all they have to do is make sure those soldiers/supplies/food/traders don't make it to the castle one way or another. 

If any part of the castle is completely enclosed or underground, a fire lit within some kind of barrel with a tube leading into a part of the castle would be an effective tool. Smoke them out. If it's round, I would think it would have more of a structural weakness than a flat wall and would be more susceptible to trebuchet/battering ram/other large and heavy attacks. 

If there is a water supply, they could dump dead animals and such into the water to transmit a pathogen.


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