# Fear of ripping off a Song of Ice and Fire



## lwhitehead (Jan 13, 2018)

Hi folks the Song of Ice and Fire novel series and how it's written what I afraid is that my Grimdark Hard Fantasy series will be seen as a rip off, If I write POV chapters and use fliped real landmass it will be seen by Publishers and Reading as me ripping off.


LW


----------



## Jay Greenstein (Jan 13, 2018)

> I afraid is that my Grimdark Hard Fantasy series will be seen as a rip off


Not unless your plot progression parallels Ice and Fire. And if it does, cut it out! 

No two people write with the same voice, and your scene progression won't be the same. So the story will not read remotely the same.

Think about Cinderella: a worthy person, held down by unfortunate circumstance is unable to reach their full potential till a kind stranger helps. How many times per year do you think that plot line appears?

There are only seven basic plots, which are repeated again and again. So here's the thing: 

1. Grab the reader's interest on page one and do it again and again, on every page.
2. Entertain, don't inform.
3. Make the reader know what matters to the protagonist in their moment of now, not read what amounts to a synopsis of events, interspersed with authorial interjection. In short, present the story in real-time, don't report it.
4. Don't talk _to_ the reader. And avoid explaining anything as yourself (and that includes authorial interjections in first person, because the narrator cannot appear on stage with the protagonist).
5. Keep the reader so busy saying, "Oh my God...what do we do now?" that they have no time to notice the faults.


----------



## Skodt (Jan 14, 2018)

As said above, Martin has his own unique style and you will have yours. If you set out to write a book and at the end find no similarity with another author you have practiced a miracle in writing. I can find similarity in most every book I have read, but that doesn't diminish the book. So, as suggested, just write and see where it takes you. In the end, I bet, you will have found yourself on a different journey than Ice and Fire.


----------



## lwhitehead (Jan 14, 2018)

Well the other why that they say that I might be ripping off Game of Thrones/ A Song of Ice and Fire setting is that fact it's set in Medieval timeframe, I'm usinf as insperation  Fall of Knight's Templars, Avigon Papacy, Albigensian Crusdaes, Crusades, and the Hundred Year War.

LW


----------



## lwhitehead (Jan 16, 2018)

um folks the other problem is that I need with my First Race of this Planet which is Elves, they crashed landed about 5.000 years ago.  The Elves are much taller then Humans min height is 6ft, and muscle structure seems to be lighter the Humans but they are just as strong as a Human. 

The Elves invented Pattern Welding, Roman style Concrete, and other type Tech, Medicine and Science from Ancient China and Islam, The Elf culture was/is based on Imperial China and Warfare Japan in age of Sengoku

About 2.000 to 1.500 Humans fought a war with the Elves for there Freedom and the Two Human Churches came out Sol Invictus which Demonized the Elf and the Other which Venerate the Elf, 

LW


----------



## Jay Greenstein (Jan 16, 2018)

Write the story. Details like what you gave are meaningless, other than to you, because the reader looks at one page at a time. You entertain that on _that_ page, and give them reason to _want_ to read the next one or they stop reading. So focus on writing well enough to keep the reader turning pages.


----------



## bdcharles (Jan 17, 2018)

lwhitehead said:


> Hi folks the Song of Ice and Fire novel series and how it's written what I afraid is that my Grimdark Hard Fantasy series will be seen as a rip off, If I write POV chapters and use fliped real landmass it will be seen by Publishers and Reading as me ripping off.
> 
> 
> LW



Just for the love of God don't have any characters whose names start with Br~, end in ~n, and have a single phoneme in the middle. Bronn, Bran, Brienne, yes I'm looking at you.

Seriously though, unless you have Lords, houses, bannermen, shifting alliances, a tryptich of climactic dragons (*adds one more dragon*), a terrible queen (*balls up WIP and throws it in the Bin Of Destiny*), an obsession with a metal chair (*makes "throne" an administrative position*), a continent to the east (*looks forlornly at left-justified fantasy map*) and frigid northern wastes, you will be fine.


----------



## lwhitehead (Jan 19, 2018)

It's what the Publisher might think after finding a Major One that would publish the series, they think that the HBO TV series had rubbed off one me, 

One of the main storylines other then the Two Kings fighting over Three chunks of land( Kingdom of England, Kingdom of France and the Duchy of Burgundy), The Second storyline is a Elf wandering through the Human lands checking out the Humans since they were driven away during the war of Liberation, the one were the Humans believe they were killed. The Elves are currently up North in there last outpost on a Northern Landmass that hasn't bin discovered yet. I should also point out Elven Naval Boats are Junk like.

The Third is the Asian landmass were the Crusades between the Two Human churches happened and were the Miltitary Orders were founded, and this world's Templars guard the Pilgrim's road, 


LW


----------



## Garvan (Jan 19, 2018)

Just my opinion - the whole Grimdark genre needs to be put to rest. It has become formulaic and as dull as dishwater.


----------



## moderan (Jan 19, 2018)

Yes. This particular series will never be written, though, so no danger of it getting to the public.


----------



## lwhitehead (Jan 22, 2018)

Stop putting me down Modern you keep saying I wouldn't create this series or any series how do you know what I'll do, now on to better things.

it seems to keep Balloon in size my setting everytime I keep creating nations and people, also I can't use flipped real world landmasses.

LW


----------



## moderan (Jan 22, 2018)

Prove me wrong.


----------



## seigfried007 (Jan 22, 2018)

moderan said:


> Prove me wrong.



This is ultimately what all writing boils down to. 

You're going to write it or not. From the sounds of it, you've wasted a lot of time goofing off in world building and not actually writing. Smart world building can really pay off in terms if plots (and closing plot holes before they happen), but all the world building can't write a good story or deliver it to readers.

Put your big girl panties on, find some good history books (since you're seemingly determined to use as little of your imagination as possible), doodle a dang map, and get writing.


----------



## lwhitehead (Jan 25, 2018)

Well the other time period I like is Italian Renaissance 15th and 16th Century, It would be much easer to Write,


LW


----------



## seigfried007 (Jan 25, 2018)

lwhitehead said:


> Well the other time period I like is Italian Renaissance 15th and 16th Century, It would be much easer to Write,
> 
> 
> LW


It doesn't matter which one you pick. You can actually make the whole thing up from scratch. Nobody cares what inspired the story or how deep your world building goes if you never manage to write a good story. They won't read your volumes of notes or appreciate your maps if you can't give them what they came for.


----------



## Annoying kid (Jan 26, 2018)

*Fear of  ripping off a Song of Ice and Fire Failure. 

*Just dive in, jeez.


----------



## Book Cook (Jan 26, 2018)

Garvan said:


> Just my opinion - the whole Grimdark genre needs to be put to rest. It has become formulaic and as dull as dishwater.



Because of one series?


----------



## lwhitehead (Jan 29, 2018)

Well the other time period I like is Golden Age of Piracy that's 1690 to 1730, the problem is world building an 18th Century world specially one focusing on Piracy?, 

LW


----------



## seigfried007 (Jan 29, 2018)

lwhitehead said:


> Well the other time period I like is Golden Age of Piracy that's 1690 to 1730, the problem is world building an 18th Century world specially one focusing on Piracy?,
> 
> LW



Hate breaking it to you but Martin didn't stick himself to ripping history from just one time period. It's all about how you write it and that you write it. 

Throw Age of Sail piracy with German U boats, Mongol hordes clashing with Napoleon, Queen Victoria falling head over heels for Al Capone as Stalin rushes to defend her honor. Nobody cares so long as you do it well.  Mix and match your favorites, and be sure to glue them together well.


----------



## lwhitehead (Feb 1, 2018)

Well Patrick O'Brian Aubrey-Marturin series is a full of Nautical Detail which I would like to add to my 18th Century world which I need help in creating,

LW


----------



## Birb (Feb 1, 2018)

Listen dude, I want to be encouraging, but this is your story. If we write it for you then it isn't your story anymore. That's not what you should want. While the people here might try and help, in the end the story is yours. Pick up a pen, turn on your computer, do something and start writing it. However many days this thread has existed you could've been writing. 

Write the story, post it here. If it sucks we'll tell you how to fix it.


----------



## lwhitehead (Feb 4, 2018)

It will maybe suck, you seen my Grammer online.

LW


----------



## moderan (Feb 5, 2018)

lvwhitehead.
Stop wasting your time and ours. If it sucks, people are here to try to help. But write it. Empty clicks are just empty clicks. You think I'm cutting you down only because the truth hurts. Write the stories or stfu.


----------



## Birb (Feb 5, 2018)

I hate to say this, but you really don't seem all that eager to improve. I have looked and found not one story you've posted. Now, that might be dated, but at the very least you need to post stuff here to practice. If you are afraid you'll screw up writing a novel, write short stories for now. Get the sp&g rules down. Learn how to follow a plot short term before you go long term. Post your work here and then we can help you improve, and start commenting on others work as well so we all know that you are dedicated to wanting to learn

Asking questions and doing "research" only gets you so far. A person can read as many books and ask as many questions about water and what it's like to swim, but they'll never learn until they jump in.


----------



## kaminoshiyo (Feb 11, 2018)

lwhitehead said:


> Hi folks the Song of Ice and Fire novel series and how it's written what I afraid is that my Grimdark Hard Fantasy series will be seen as a rip off, If I write POV chapters and use fliped real landmass it will be seen by Publishers and Reading as me ripping off.
> 
> 
> LW



Star Wars "borrowed" heavily from many sources like Akira Kurosawa's "Hidden Fortress", eastern philosophy and spirituality, and the Valerian series (the one whose recent movie flopped). Not many have heard of Hidden Fortress and fewer have heard of the Valerian series, but you definitely know about Star Wars. 

Best thing I can tell you is to write what you want outside of direct, word-for-word, scene-for-scene plagiarism. Many other writers do. Even the X-Men are rip offs of other characters. So Is Superman, Batman, etc.


----------



## lwhitehead (Feb 11, 2018)

I will post my problems with my 18th Century hard Grimdark Fantasy in another posting, and the reason why I've haven't posted any of my work is this, these type of forum I nevered figure out how too.

all the buttons are pictures not helpful,

LW


----------



## moderan (Feb 12, 2018)

lwhitehead said:


> I will post my problems with my 18th Century hard Grimdark Fantasy in another posting, and the reason why I've haven't posted any of my work is this, these type of forum I nevered figure out how too.
> 
> all the buttons are pictures not helpful,
> 
> LW



Forgive me if I lawl.


----------



## lwhitehead (Feb 28, 2018)

Speak Samurai setting, my latest idea setting a  Hard Grimdark setting a 17th Century Feudal Japan between 1600 to 1620, but not of the Three Unifiers yet. My Twist however is that my Samurai culture is White like the Ainu people of Japan who by now are normally part of Japan,

In this setting my Europeans like people who brought Matchlock Firearms are Asians while my Japanese and Asians are Europeans.


I'm going to need a large landmass for my Japanese like people, 


LW


----------



## Annoying kid (Feb 28, 2018)

lwhitehead said:


> Speak Samurai setting, my latest idea setting a  Hard Grimdark setting a 17th Century Feudal Japan between 1600 to 1620, but not of the Three Unifiers yet. My Twist however is that my Samurai culture is White like the Ainu people of Japan who by now are normally part of Japan,
> 
> In this setting my Europeans like people who brought Matchlock Firearms are Asians while my Japanese and Asians are Europeans.
> 
> ...



I think you're pretty far from A Song of Ice and Fire at this point. Alot of your angst comes from the fact that you consider yourself a writer when you're in fact a worldbuilder. There's nothing wrong with getting enjoyment out of building worlds and having that as a pastime.

 You'll be happier if you were honest with yourself.


----------



## wkiraly (Feb 28, 2018)

I loved the GOT long before it came to TV and I blame it for ruining the book I've been writing for a long, long time, or maybe i should say, not writing for a long, long time. No one would ever confuse my plot with Martin's. 

The problem is that Martin makes telling a story from so many points of view look so easy, and he does it soooo well, I figured _I_ could write a story with only four shifting points of view.

It's way harder than George RR makes it look!


----------



## lwhitehead (Mar 2, 2018)

Yes I'm a Worldbuilder I'm building the setting for my novel series, and yes to some people I just changing the Skin and Hair Color of my version of the Feudal Japanese, this is true and I made the Gaijin Asian in Skin and Hair Coloring as well. The work of Kazuo Koike Lone Wolf and Cub, Samurai Executioner, and Lady Snowblood inspired me as well, 

I will post this world and my problem in a fresh post,

LW


----------

