# Does a submission synopsis describe the story or the MS?



## qwertyman (Jul 4, 2010)

Is it accepted practice to incorporate an event that appears in flash-back or back-story in the MS, in its correct chronological order?

Example: 

*Joe Blow*, extravagant gambler and heir to the Barnstable fortune, visits his mother to discuss the sale of her diamonds and catches the five o clock express to Paddington.

When in the MS it doesn’t appear on the page until Chapter III that he had (in the past) visited his mother.


Does a submission synopsis describe the story or the MS?


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## The Backward OX (Jul 4, 2010)

qwertyman said:


> Is it accepted practice to incorporate an event that appears in flash-back or back-story in the MS, in its correct chronological order?


Your subject line and your first paragraph appear to be asking two different questions. And as to the subject line, surely the story and the MS are one and the same thing


> Example:
> 
> *Joe Blow*, extravagant gambler and heir to the Barnstable fortune, visits his mother to discuss the sale of her diamonds and catches the five o clock express to Paddington.


This is unclear. Does he catch the express to visit his mother or to leave her?


> When in the MS it doesn’t appear on the page until Chapter III that he had (in the past) visited his mother.


When in the MS it doesn’t appear on the page until Chapter III that he had (in the past) visited his mother, what? The thought is incomplete.


> Does a submission synopsis describe the story or the MS?


I think we covered this at the start.


Perhaps if you have a lie down in a darkened room for an hour or so, you might then be able to revamp this mess to make some sense.


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## qwertyman (Jul 4, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Your subject line and your first paragraph appear to be asking two different questions. And as to the subject line, surely the story and the MS are one and the same thing


 

Hmph! If a story is made up of chronological scenes - A B C D E F G H I.
But they appear in the MS in the following order - C A B D I E etc (snigger)


Should the synopsis be faithful to the MS, or is it OK to relate the story in actual chronological order?

Think flash-back and back-story - 

I'm going to my darkened room for am hour or so.


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## TWErvin2 (Jul 4, 2010)

*Qwertyman*,

I am not even sure the question is relevant to writing a synopsis (at least not in my experience). Unless requested by a particular publisher, keeping a manuscript’s synopsis to a single page in length, two maximum, should be the objective. A detailed step by step progression through events isn't going to accomplish that. The goal is to tell the main thrust of the story in an engaging manner, including main players and how it all ends.

Is your example: *



			Joe Blow, extravagant gambler and heir to the Barnstable fortune, visits his mother to discuss the sale of her diamonds and catches the five o clock express to Paddington.
		
Click to expand...

*


> *
> *


 a major event or turning point in the novel?

Just my two cents on the topic.

Terry


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## TWErvin2 (Jul 4, 2010)

excuse the double post...


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## qwertyman (Jul 4, 2010)

Hi Terry, thanks for the comment. I agree, one page.

Consider this (for illustrative purposes only*):

If you were writing a standard formula who-dunnit, there would be (say) six suspects, a victim, the MC his side kick and probably a love interest. 

That’s ten ‘main players’. Each suspect would have his incentive, opportunity to murder and his alibi. There would be a lot of, ‘Joe confessed that he had got off the train at Newbury ’ and ‘investigations into her past revealed’ , ‘it transpired a thunderstorm had delayed the train’ etc. 

In short, a page would be used up very quickly with little chance of being engaging, or showing any ingenuity of plot. If the synopsis could relate the plot sequentially instead of the way it is presented in the MS, a lot of this could be avoided. 

It’s an odd way of presenting a who-dunnit, but it’s irrelevant to the publisher who-did-it. He just wants to know if it has any reader appeal.



* I have to say this or Ox will go into falsettos of indignation about the five o'clock train not stopping at Newbury....sheesh!


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## The Backward OX (Jul 4, 2010)

Another writing site makes a big hullaballoo on the subject of what the story’s about, or WTSA as they call it. I have heard it said that one must be able to describe in as little as thirty or so words WTSA. This precis can then be extended to a page, or two pages, and becomes your common-or-garden synopsis. I have also heard it said that if one cannot write a WTSA - oft-times referred to, by those becoming irritable regarding the subject matter, by the more adjectival WTFSA - then this inability stems from the inescapable conclusion that one has no story. So, tell me this, mr querty, can you set out a WTFSA? If you cannot, this question of what you do about your backstory becomes academic. You cannot write.


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## The Backward OX (Jul 4, 2010)

And I would have been correct. It does appear not to have stopped.


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## TWErvin2 (Jul 4, 2010)

*Qwertyman,*

I don't believe you would need to list every suspect in the mystery...a statement such as: _From the former lover milkman with a history of violent felony assaults to the paranoid schizophrenic sister periodically off her medications, there are more than enough potential suspects for Detective Jones to consider, and all have apparent rock-solid alibis._

Okay, I am just making that up on the fly and the wording could use a little polish, but it gives a flavor of the suspects without naming all ten. As you're certainly targeting where you're sending your submission package, the agents/editors who will be reading the synopsis are going to be more than familiar with the complexity such a mystery can carry. 

Terry


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## The Backward OX (Jul 4, 2010)

Okay querty, time for serious now.(Oh, day worthy to be marked with a white stone!)

I think the matter can be resolved by going back to grass-roots - learning all there is to know about synopsification. First up is this (copied from a website):

When it comes to the length of a synopsis, longer isn't better. A good length is to 
figure on about two synopsis pages for each hundred manuscript pages. Of course, 
depending on the plot, you might find you can get by with less, or you might find you 
need more. The key word here is "need". Of course, if the agent or publishers says 
no more than five pages, then no more than five pages. If they ask for pink paper 
with a size ten font, that's what you give them. Their wish is your command. Smile.

So, what else makes up the nitty-gritty? Learning how to say a lot in a few words prolly sums it up. You need to_ learn how_ to precis.* This is where your problem _really lies_, not in whether the synopsis follows one format or another.

I believe anyone can do this. It might take practice, but hey, did Botham or Gooch or Smith have a knock of 100 first time out? 

Then you will be able to write it out in the same sequence as it appears before the reader’s eyes, only summarised.



* The detail in the previous post, about the milko, the schizo and the 'tec, explains it perfectly.


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## qwertyman (Jul 5, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Then you will be able to write it out in the same sequence as it appears before the reader’s eyes, only summarised.


 
At last an answer! I take it, in your opinion, one shouldn't write a synopsis in chronological order if it doesn't appear that way in the MS....Please confirm and state your source.





The Backward OX said:


> * The detail in the previous post, about the milko, the schizo and the 'tec, explains it perfectly.


 Yes, Terry's answer, all very interesting but doesn't address the original question.

Forget who-dunnits. 

This is the actual case in discussion:-
A man has to fly from London to Malaga to investigate the death of his half-brother . On the way he stops off in Madrid and visits their mother.

In the MS, to maintain the pace, the stop-over in Madrid is not mentioned until several chapters later. 

It would save space and unecessary explanation, (take this as a given) if, in the synopsis , I could write, "On the way to Malaga he stopped at Madrid to speak to their mother. blah blah..." Even though it does not appear in that sequence on the page.

Original Question: Does a submission synopsis describe the story or the MS?


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## The Backward OX (Jul 5, 2010)

qwertyman said:


> I take it, in your opinion, one shouldn't write a synopsis in chronological order if it doesn't appear that way in the MS....Please confirm and state your source.


 
Yes, you’re correct. Not that it took much brain power to figure that out. As to my source - that, my dear querty, is no more than good old common sense. If the sequence of scenes is all over the place, the publisher needs to know in advance what it is he’s going to be looking at. At least, that’s my opinion. I could quote you an analogy from life to drive home this point but this is a family site and the detail might shock the kiddies. Think callow youf and a transgendered individual.


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## TWErvin2 (Jul 5, 2010)

qwertyman said:


> Yes, Terry's answer, all very interesting but doesn't address the original question.
> 
> Forget who-dunnits.
> 
> ...


 
*Qwertyman*,

It does address the original question through giving an example to illustrate. It is your choice to decide if you want to attempt to go step by step through the manuscript, explaining as you go. Or you can summarize the story in your synopsis, telling the main highlights of the story, including the ending.

I gave you an example that demonstrated how to _not_ include every incremental step. Including every major plot event in a manuscript in order is more along the lines of an outline than it is a synopsis. On occasion a publisher will request an outline as opposed t a synopsis.

Refer to this article, which is the way I would recommend you proceed: Writing a Novel Synopsis
But in the end, it's your story/novel/manuscript, and you have to proceed the way that you feel will best reflect your work in the eyes of potential agents/editors.

Good luck moving forward.

Terry


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## The Backward OX (Jul 5, 2010)

TWErvin2 said:


> It does address the original question


 
No, it doesn't. His original question was about whether a synopsis should be set out in the same sequence as a story that jumped around in time or whether it should rearrange the sequences into a strict chronological order. I eventually figured out what he was asking, and if a dummy like me can do it, anyone can.


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## qwertyman (Jul 5, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> No, it doesn't. His original question was about whether a synopsis should be set out in the same sequence as a story that jumped around in time or whether it should rearrange the sequences into a strict chronological order. I eventually figured out what he was asking, and if a dummy like me can do it, anyone can.


 
Nearly right: My original question was about whether a synopsis should be set out in the same sequence as a story that jumped around in time or whether it is accepted that some sequences may be in a chronological order not represented in the MS. 



Phew! I thank you.


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## TWErvin2 (Jul 5, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> No, it doesn't. His original question was about whether a synopsis should be set out in the same sequence as a story that jumped around in time or whether it should rearrange the sequences into a strict chronological order. I eventually figured out what he was asking, and if a dummy like me can do it, anyone can.


 
Then you should eventually figure out that my example illustrated that the focus should be on the story content and not worry about the sequence of events. What is being described, as I pointed out, sounds to be more along the lines of an outline, not a synopsis. Of course, the final product would really tell.

In any case, *Backward Ox*, what you suggested through your earlier reference to a website recommended basically a 6 to 10 page synopsis (depending on manuscript length, formatting/font etc. and depending on if a publisher/agent specifically requested something else). I suggested a one to two page synopsis, and *Quertyman* agreed that was what he was shooting for (or at least that's how I interpreted his comment). 



> Hi Terry, thanks for the comment. I agree, one page.


 
So my comments following have been focused on that. I pointed out to *Quertyman* that I believed his question/concern was irrelevant for writing a brief synopsis. Then I set out to give an example to illustrate how to _not_ include every step in the plot while still giving the flavor a storyline to the reader, be it an agent or an editor. *Backward Ox*, your comment about focusing on the short version of 'what's your story about' is more relevant to what I think the focus for the synopsis should be.

Sometimes the answer isn't the 'either--or' options initially presented. Whether *Quertyman* or anyone else that stumbles across and reads this thread thinks my advice makes sense and/or has merit...well, it's up to them.

Terry


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## Linton Robinson (Jul 5, 2010)

The blurb in a query isn't a book report, or even a synopsis.
It's closer to a movie trailer.   You're trying to give a very breif idea of the story and what happens and why anybody would care.
The chronology doesn't matter  The list of characters doesn't matter.   What matters is making somebody want to see more of the story.


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