# What's in a Name? Novel Titles



## MzSnowleopard (Oct 24, 2014)

Today, I was inspired by an article that suggested using the incognito feature.  So, I did and found 3 other writers producing works with the same title.

The Zodiac Chronicles.

Thankfully, it's not the title that's copyrighted, it's the work within that is. And each one of us is writing something different. One is a story about vampires, another is about angels vs. demons. With the 3rd one, I don't know what his book is about I just know that he had asked one of the others about theirs and that his book was titled The Zodiac Chronicles: Cancer.

Those who know my might be thinking "Oh no, she's hitting the panic button." This will show you how much I've changed. I'm not panicking or throwing any kind of drama-queen spat. Truthfully, I am curious about what others are doing under this title. This isn't because of competition, it's because I'm curious and interested in what they've come up with.

Okay, so what am I getting at with this? Is this proof of the 'collective consciousness'? Is this proof that there are no more original ideas?

I don't know but I have my suspicions on that collective consciousness thing. Seriously, what I do know is that there is a multitude of works out there published, produced, etc, that use the same titles. There have been a few times where someone has asked or commented about their concerns of someone 'stealing' their ideas, book titles, etc.

I know this feeling. I've lived under this threat for a decade or so. I guess what I'm getting at with my ramblings is that these things happen. We can choose to get upset, or name our works, or respond in some negative way.

The thing to remember is that - while people may remember the title, it's what's inside the covers that counts.

One prime example is the title Heartland. First there is the series / collection of novels by Lauren Brooke. This is the series that the show is based on- of the same name. if you visit IMDB.com and type in this title; you will get a list of the various shows- past, present, and future with this title.

So, I guess my point is this: if you're concerned because someone else is using 'your' title- as they say in NY, 'forgetaboutit'.  It's what you put between the covers that counts.


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## Bishop (Oct 24, 2014)

A good point to make. I'm reading a book now called "The Rolling Stones" by Robert A Heinlein, and I can tell you for sure that it's not about Mick Jager. But few people think of the novel when you mention the name... I suppose it's just the idea that names get used for this or that, all over the place. Do your best to make them stand out, but remember that the story is what will cement _your_ name.


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## Seedy M. (Oct 25, 2014)

The title can make a big difference, but I doubt you will find a truly unique one.
I wrote a book some years ago, a murder mystery, that I named with an almost generic title. It sold very little. I changed the title to _Dead Men Don't Dream_, taken from a comment of the ME in the book. It sold much better and is still selling.
For the instant appeal, though, the cover is the first eye-catcher.
Regardless of that, if it's amateurish garbage inside, the sales will very soon fall to nothing ... well, not really. By the looks of things, garbage is is style. A majority of the popular titles and authors today are garbage.


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## aj47 (Oct 25, 2014)

Bishop said:


> A good point to make. I'm reading a book now called "The Rolling Stones" by Robert A Heinlein, and I can tell you for sure that it's not about Mick Jager. But few people think of the novel when you mention the name... I suppose it's just the idea that names get used for this or that, all over the place. Do your best to make them stand out, but remember that the story is what will cement _your_ name.


Considering "The Rolling Stones" was written in 1952, it better not be about Mick Jagger unless he's an accidental time traveler.


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## J Anfinson (Oct 25, 2014)

I'll put my hand up and admit, I do google the titles I think up. For me, (and maybe just because I'm obsessive about pointless things) it's important to use titles that haven't been used a million times. I'd like to stand out from the crowd and not use something that's almost generic to the genre. That said, if a popular title feels perfect I won't hesitate to use it because in the long run it _is_ what's inside that counts.


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## InstituteMan (Oct 25, 2014)

I obsess over titles. I try not to, especially for long works that won't need a proper title for a long time, but I still do. I've been known to write a short story simply because I came up with a title I thought was catchy.


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## Folcro (Oct 26, 2014)

Giving ample thought to find the right title is critical. There's no way around it. From a marketing standpoint, you want your cover to pop in as many ways as it can. From an artistic standpoint, you want the words to rest on the reader's mind and follow them into their dreams. A title can be enchanting and beautiful, or come to crawl under your skin after you've turned the last page. It might evoke curiosity, perhaps of the morbid persuasion. A title should opt for at least a portion of these things.

And really, is there an excuse _not _to think of a good title? Even if your story didn't deserve it?


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## MzSnowleopard (Oct 26, 2014)

Some titles just fit- like a well worn glove. For my Zodiac Chronicles- each hero (and their nemesis) have Psionic abilities based on the element of their signs Fire, Earth, Air, and Water. This is woven into a "family curse" I devised for the background. Of the other 3 writing under this title- while they deal with supernatural abilities - the stories are very different.


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## T.S.Bowman (Oct 27, 2014)

Well..I just Googled the title for my novvel and there are no other novels witht he same title. :-D


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## TKent (Oct 27, 2014)

I also read that Paulo Coelho, who is big into social media, chose a one word name for his new book so that it was easy to hash tag on twitter. I thought that was interesting. I know that when I started my tennis business, we got a logo that was pretty cool, but it wasn't 'simple' so when I started getting products made, it was a pain, and more expensive to get embroidered shirts, etc. So I also think you need to think of all the stuff that might occur if your book got really popular, famous (think big, right??). Does it flow easily off your tongue for interviews, is it easy to hash tag, etc. LOL   I know this sounds weird, but it isn't worth thinking about if nothing else.


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## Morkonan (Oct 27, 2014)

MzSnowleopard said:


> ...So, I guess my point is this: if you're concerned because someone else is using 'your' title- as they say in NY, 'forgetaboutit'.  It's what you put between the covers that counts.



Whenever I see something with the same title as something I have written or am working on, this is what happens:

[video=youtube;PMgGNxyCHsY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMgGNxyCHsY[/video]


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## Schrody (Oct 27, 2014)

I found out there's already a published book by the same title of my novel, but it's a different genre, so I'm okay with it  Heck, there are even real people, living in the same cities like my characters.


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## Ari (Oct 28, 2014)

I guess, for me, it really depends on the title that's being repeated. 

Something like "The Zodiac Chronicles" is fairly generic. It's easy to see how different people would come up with this same name without copying at all. I mean, if your story uses the Zodiac signs (and many stories do because, let's face it, you can have marvellous fun with astrology) then it is perfectly logical for you to call your series "The Zodiac Chronicles."

However, there are some book titles that are so one-of-a-kind that I can see there being problems if they were reused. Titles like "Across The Nightingale Floor" and "The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairyland In A Ship Of Her Own Making."

Titles like that can only happen once. 

I waver between worrying that someone might steal my story titles before my stories are even finished, and gloomily that no one would want my titles anyway, so what does it matter? 
So far I have my fully finished first draft, "The Three Shades of Flickering", and a few scribblings for a sequel entitled "The Language Of Luna Moths".


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## Morkonan (Oct 28, 2014)

Ari said:


> ...Titles like "Across The Nightingale Floor" ...
> 
> Titles like that can only happen once.



I wrote a short with that title.  It was about a thief/assassin who found themselves on a "nightingale floor", a floor purposefully designed to squeak, make noise or cause someone stepping on it the inconvenience of possible discovery. Loads of flashbacks... What would you do if you were a thief/assassin and were doing your last job before retirement and had been a bit overconfident, slipping into the middle of a room covered by a nightingale floor you didn't take the time to look for?  



> I waver between worrying that someone might steal my story titles before my stories are even finished, and gloomily that no one would want my titles anyway, so what does it matter?
> So far I have my fully finished first draft, "The Three Shades of Flickering", and a few scribblings for a sequel entitled "The Language Of Luna Moths".



The first is a bit too mysterious, but some of the words may have special meaning in the story, so I can't judge it. I like the second, though.  (It sounds familiar to me, for some reason.)


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## Schrody (Oct 28, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> I wrote a short with that title.  It was about a thief/assassin who found themselves on a "nightingale floor", a floor purposefully designed to squeak, make noise or cause someone stepping on it the inconvenience of possible discovery. Loads of flashbacks... What would you do if you were a thief/assassin and were doing your last job before retirement and had been a bit overconfident, slipping into the middle of a room covered by a nightingale floor you didn't take the time to look for?



Sounds like a Pratchett's story. He stole your idea! :shock:


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## TIG (Oct 28, 2014)

I think it's not worth getting too attached to titles. If you self-publish you obviously have the ultimate say, but if you go via a publishing house there are a whole bucketful of reasons why they'll change the title, right up until the last minute!

The person the title really matters to is the reader. There are certain books I avoided reading because the title didn't work for me.


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## Ari (Oct 28, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> I wrote a short with that title.  It was about a thief/assassin who found themselves on a "nightingale floor", a floor purposefully designed to squeak, make noise or cause someone stepping on it the inconvenience of possible discovery. Loads of flashbacks... What would you do if you were a thief/assassin and were doing your last job before retirement and had been a bit overconfident, slipping into the middle of a room covered by a nightingale floor you didn't take the time to look for?



Really? Did you not feel like you were stealing...? 
Maybe it's because I know the Nightingale Floor so well, and I've never read any other book that even mentions one, I feel only one story could ever have that name.



> The first is a bit too mysterious, but some of the words may have special meaning in the story, so I can't judge it. I like the second, though. :smile: (It sounds familiar to me, for some reason.)



Someone else said the first one was too mysterious, or something along those lines. Actually Flickering is a country (kind of) and Shades are ghosts (kind of) so it does make sense if you know the story. But people generally don't know the story before seeing the title, so.
I will probably have to call it change.

I'm glad you like the second one, though. I wish I knew why it sounded familiar to you!

(I didn't mean to LOL at your post, by the way. I was aiming for a Like, but missed.)


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## Morkonan (Oct 28, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Sounds like a Pratchett's story. He stole your idea! :shock:



/grrrr

Yeah, it happens a lot. Some dude named "Shakes Peare" stolded my idear two! Gonna sue him and get alls his richs! 

(Actually, I went looking for that old short and remembered it's on a dead hard-drive. My notes are long-gone, too. I never did anything with it, but it sounds like a re-write is in order. I thunked about it all night, had some weird dream, got some nice visuals.  )



			
				Ari said:
			
		

> Really? Did you not feel like you were stealing...?
> Maybe it's because I know the Nightingale Floor so well, and I've never  read any other book that even mentions one, I feel only one story could  ever have that name.



A "Nightingale Floor" is an old-world convention used to hamper the efforts of a thief or intruder. There are several versions, the most common being the simple loosening of floorboards by pulling out the nails, slightly, so that the boards "squeek" against the nails when they're trod upon. That noise will alert guards or other residents of the presence of someone walking in the room. A more serious version would have some support beams removed and razor-blades inserted in-between the floorboards, so that the feet of a soft-soled footpad would be cut as the boards took their weight. 

I've read books with Nightingale Floors in them, but none has a nightingale floor that play a prominent role in the story.

PS - You can't steal an "idea."


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## Bishop (Oct 28, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> Yeah, it happens a lot. Some dude named "Shakes Peare" stolded my idear two! Gonna sue him and get alls his richs!


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## Sam (Oct 28, 2014)

Ari said:


> Really? Did you not feel like you were stealing...?



You can't steal a title. 

Titles aren't as important as what's inside the book, no, but, along with the blurb, they tend to tell people what the book is about. If you're a fan of thrillers, for instance, you're going to like the sound of _Executive Decision _better than _A Walk to Remember. _


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## Ari (Oct 28, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> A "Nightingale Floor" is an old-world convention used to hamper the efforts of a thief or intruder. There are several versions, the most common being the simple loosening of floorboards by pulling out the nails, slightly, so that the boards "squeek" against the nails when they're trod upon. That noise will alert guards or other residents of the presence of someone walking in the room. A more serious version would have some support beams removed and razor-blades inserted in-between the floorboards, so that the feet of a soft-soled footpad would be cut as the boards took their weight.
> 
> I've read books with Nightingale Floors in them, but none has a nightingale floor that play a prominent role in the story.
> 
> PS - You can't steal an "idea."



I know what a nightingale floor is 

I meant more stealing the title, not the idea. 
Because the title "Across the Nightingale Floor" is so familiar to me, I know if I used it myself it would feel like theft. And it probably would be theft, because in my mind this title belongs to someone else's story. 
Only, I'm guessing you haven't read that "Across the Nightingale Floor"? So you can't have stolen it. But if I saw your story on a shelf with that name, I'd probably think you had.

I guess I have a nasty, suspicious mind ^_^"

Can't ideas be stolen, though? I think I could steal an idea. I've often wanted to steal Brandon Sanderson's magic systems, and they are all ideas of his.


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## Ari (Oct 28, 2014)

Sam said:


> You can't steal a title.



Can't I?
I have a book called "Kit's Wilderness". I know it very well. If I write a book and call it "Kit's Wilderness" because I know that title and I think it's a great one, and I'd like to see it on the cover of my story... haven't I stolen it?


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## Morkonan (Oct 28, 2014)

Ari said:


> I know what a nightingale floor is



Sorry, you just seem surprised that it would be mentioned somewhere else. In a certain setting with thieves and assassins, a nightingale floor being present in someone's home might be a commonplace occurrence. But, there aren't many of those sorts of stories outside of certain specific genres, I admit.



> I guess I have a nasty, suspicious mind ^_^"
> 
> Can't ideas be stolen, though? I think I could steal an idea. I've often wanted to steal Brandon Sanderson's magic systems, and they are all ideas of his.



Nope, can't steal an idea. 

(Note: If I had been aware of the story "Across the Nightingale Floor" I would have likely tried to avoid the title, but that would only be due to "courtesy", not out of an worry of infringement or other impropriety. I think mine was written before that was published, but mine was not published.)

You can use something similar to Sanderson's "metals" magic system if you'd like! Feel free! Indulge yourself by having your characters gobble down metals in order to gain magical powers. But, woe unto you if you choose to use the word "Lerasium" in your story in reference to one of those metals! Then, Sanderson's copyright lawyers will have your head spinning as they force-feed you injunctions and lawsuits, since "Lerasium" is a wholly invented term by Sanderson for a certain sort of magical metal, a set of "coincidences" that would place you deep into copyright law. (As far as I can tell, there isn't a real-world meaning for "Lerasium.")

Come to think of it, you should probably avoid the whole thing, altogether, since he covers so many different metals and their effects that you might inadvertently stumble into copyright issues. (Using the term "Allomancy" might get you in trouble, too, since it's a sort of unique combination of words prominently used in association with Sanderson's work. Better call a copyright lawyer, first.  ) At the very least, you'd want to be avoid being called a "hack" and an "exploiter" of the ideas of other writers. 

So, how about using confectioneries, instead?  Your characters could gobble down cream-puffs and chocolate sprinkles in order to gain magical abilities! Just don't prominently use the word "Pop-Tarts" or Kellog's will come sue you, just for funsies. 



Ari said:


> Can't I?
> I have a book called "Kit's Wilderness". I know it very well. If I write  a book and call it "Kit's Wilderness" because I know that title and I  think it's a great one, and I'd like to see it on the cover of my  story... haven't I stolen it?



Why is it a "great title?" It's because of what is in-between the covers, right? What is written inside is what makes that a great title, not the title itself. If the title you use refers to "your Kit" and your character, Kit's, "wilderness", then it's your title and your story that goes along with it.


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## Sam (Oct 28, 2014)

Ari said:


> Can't I?
> I have a book called "Kit's Wilderness". I know it very well. If I write a book and call it "Kit's Wilderness" because I know that title and I think it's a great one, and I'd like to see it on the cover of my story... haven't I stolen it?



Nope. 

You've used the name _Kit's Wilderness. _Unless it's trademarked (as _Harry Potter _is) you can't be prosecuted for using a title, or accused of stealing, as titles cannot be copyrighted and are all (except for the aforementioned trademarked ones) open domain. 

Tomorrow morning, I can write and publish a book called _The Stand. _No one can stop me doing it.


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## Schrody (Oct 28, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> /grrrr
> 
> Yeah, it happens a lot. Some dude named "Shakes Peare" stolded my idear two! Gonna sue him and get alls his richs!
> 
> (Actually, I went looking for that old short and remembered it's on a dead hard-drive. My notes are long-gone, too. I never did anything with it, but it sounds like a re-write is in order. I thunked about it all night, had some weird dream, got some nice visuals.  )



You mean shakes a pear dude?


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## J Anfinson (Oct 28, 2014)

Sam said:


> Tomorrow morning, I can write and publish a book called _The Stand. _No one can stop me doing it.



I hereby challenge you to write that novel tomorrow morning and publish it. You have until noon.


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## T.S.Bowman (Oct 28, 2014)

J Anfinson said:


> I hereby challenge you to write that novel tomorrow morning and publish it. You have until noon.



^This. LOL


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## Ari (Oct 28, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> Sorry, you just seem surprised that it would be mentioned somewhere else. In a certain setting with thieves and assassins, a nightingale floor being present in someone's home might be a commonplace occurrence. But, there aren't many of those sorts of stories outside of certain specific genres, I admit.
> 
> Nope, can't steal an idea.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry. I was surprised, but not because I don't know what I nightingale floor is. 
I was surprised because I've never heard it mentioned anywhere else, is all, even though I know its fine for many people to write about them. I think I don't read the right kind of stories to come across nightingale floors that often.

But, wow! You wrote your "Across Nightingale Floor" before Lian Hearn? 
I withdraw my first comment. 
Clearly there can be two stories with this title without someone copying someone else 

Ha! Alright, I'm stealing the magic system from The Rithmatist (that's my favourite system of his). And if anyone accused me I'll say, "Morkonan told me to do it!"

But, in seriousness, I understand what you're saying. At least I think I do. There's a difference between stealing and copying, right? I was taking them to be the same thing, and both of them unfair and something I wish not to do. But, it sounds like using a single word (Lerasium, Allomancy) that is of Brandon Sanderson's making would be stealing and get me into legal trouble. Copying his idea wouldn't get me in legal trouble but would (probably) irritate his fans. 
Yes? No?  

I suppose so... but I would still know that I'd copied it. And having copied it, I'd probably feel like I'd stolen it too. 



Sam said:


> Nope.
> 
> You've used the name _Kit's Wilderness. _Unless it's trademarked (as _Harry Potter _is) you can't be prosecuted for using a title, or accused of stealing, as titles cannot be copyrighted and are all (except for the aforementioned trademarked ones) open domain.
> 
> Tomorrow morning, I can write and publish a book called _The Stand. _No one can stop me doing it.



So, I'm guessing the difference is that stealing is taking titles that will get me legally blasted, and copying is taking titles/ideas/whatever that wont?
I still don't think it's the nicest thing to do to someone, though. Copying their stuff. It feels like stealing to me, even if it technically isn't.

Good luck writing and publishing that book before noon! I'll be sure to buy it ^_~


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## Morkonan (Oct 28, 2014)

Ari said:


> ...I suppose so... but I would still know that I'd copied it. And having copied it, I'd probably feel like I'd stolen it too.



^--- This.

Personal "honor" is important to writers, or should be. We write because we want to create and we want to tell stories. If we "steal" another writer's ideas, what then are we going to think about ourselves when our story is published? If it becomes very popular, was it due to our "theft" of another writer's creative ability?

If you borrow to heavily from someone else's ideas, you're not going to truly know whether or not your story is liked because of what you wrote or because of what another author created. I'd much rather have a story that was wholly my own, for good or ill, than one that borrowed components from the minds of others.


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## Ari (Oct 28, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> ^--- This.
> 
> Personal "honor" is important to writers, or should be. We write because we want to create and we want to tell stories. If we "steal" another writer's ideas, what then are we going to think about ourselves when our story is published? If it becomes very popular, was it due to our "theft" of another writer's creative ability?
> 
> If you borrow to heavily from someone else's ideas, you're not going to truly know whether or not your story is liked because of what you wrote or because of what another author created. I'd much rather have a story that was wholly my own, for good or ill, than one that borrowed components from the minds of others.



Yes. This is exactly want I meant. 
You explain it much better than I did


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## Sam (Oct 29, 2014)

Ari said:


> So, I'm guessing the difference is that stealing is taking titles that will get me legally blasted, and copying is taking titles/ideas/whatever that wont?
> I still don't think it's the nicest thing to do to someone, though. Copying their stuff. It feels like stealing to me, even if it technically isn't.



You aren't copying anything. 

You're using a title that has already been used. That isn't copying. If that were the case, we would have run out of titles at this stage.


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## Sam (Oct 29, 2014)

J Anfinson said:


> I hereby challenge you to write that novel tomorrow morning and publish it. You have until noon.



It's called hyperbole.


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## Ari (Oct 29, 2014)

Sam said:


> You aren't copying anything.
> 
> You're using a title that has already been used. That isn't copying. If that were the case, we would have run out of titles at this stage.



Can I use that excuse in a test?

"I'm not copying! I'm just using answers that have already been used!"


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