# When are sex scenes appropriate?



## FlambeNobunaga (Oct 4, 2013)

Okay, in a work I'm currently writing, throughout the story, two characters develop a sort of romance. This ends up with them in bed together near the end. The problem is that I'm not writing a romance novel. It's kind of like (to pick an entirely random example) the romance between Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes in Chris Nolan's Batman movies. Yes, it involves two main characters and yes, it is a major part of the story, but it's not the point of the story. What I'd like some advice on is wether or not to write an explicit sex scene between the two or just imply it between chapters by ending one with them both going into the bedroom and starting the next one with both of them getting dressed. This usually would be a no brainer but the voice of my creative writing professor is screaming "Show, don't tell!!!" In the back of my head.


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## Myers (Oct 4, 2013)

It probably isn't necessary to be explicit, it rarely it is. But you don't have to fade to black either. You can write what a character is feeling or even saying without including all the mechanics. I think you'll just have to try and write it, if you don't feel comfortable with it, then simply let readers know it happened.


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## J Anfinson (Oct 4, 2013)

Show don't tell is taken way too seriously sometimes. Yes, most off the time it's better, but telling has its place too. If the sex scene is important then show it (without explaining tab A and slot B). If not, tell. That's my opinion.


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## David Gordon Burke (Oct 4, 2013)

I'd go the "it is all leading up to this point" and then allow the reader to fill in the blanks.  Might be an idea to read something sleazy like Harold Robbins and his ilk although I wouldn't go 5% as far as those writers do.

Like Shakespeare, have the action take place off screen (stage) 

David Gordon Burke


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## Myers (Oct 4, 2013)

David Gordon Burke said:


> Like Shakespeare, have the action take place off screen (stage)



That’s a matter of preference, of course. I just wrote a sex scene. I’m adding it to the last thing I posted in Workshop. I believe the tone of the story and the situation kind of demands that it not fade to black. It’s supposed to be spontaneous and it’s all about raw emotion and the way it makes my MC feel. I think I’ve successfully depicted the scene without getting too explicit, but you definitely know what’s going on. I look at it as a challenge; how to say enough without going too far or making it gratuitous. Hopefully, I pulled it off. But I think it's like most everything else that has to do with writing; it depends on the story.


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## Sam (Oct 4, 2013)

The problem is, most of the time a sex scene does absolutely nothing for a story. I recently read a novel by a close friend of mine. He's a fantastic writer with the ability to pen words which grab a reader and never let them go. He decided to try his hand at a western, but with a love story thrown in for good measure. I found myself reading through my fingers for the first three-quarters of the novel . . . until he decided to embark on a five-page, blow-by-blow exposition of a sex scene. Only that he was a close friend, I wouldn't have read on. That's not to say I have a problem with sex in a novel; I have a problem when it's thrown in for nothing more than cheap titillation, which is ninety per cent of the time. Too often it becomes fulfillment of a fantasy and is incongruous with the general tone of a piece. You see it in thrillers _a lot, _where some squared-jawed bloke will inevitably encounter a beautiful blonde/redhead/brunette, and in the midst of saving the world/day/her will somehow find the time to have sex with her. 

It doesn't work for me, and not many people can pull it off without having the narrator sound like a perverse voyeur taking pleasure from each individual movement.


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## Myers (Oct 4, 2013)

If "not many people can pull it off," that still means some people can.


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## movieman (Oct 4, 2013)

Sam said:


> The problem is, most of the time a sex scene does absolutely nothing for a story.



Bingo. It's appropriate when it's important for the story. Otherwise, it should be cut, just like any other scene that's not important to the story.


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## Kyle R (Oct 4, 2013)

I've read many sex scenes that were written both tastefully and with style. The ones I like best are the ones that sweep over the act in a paragraph or two, focusing on occasional sensory glimpses here and there: a naked thigh, a window curtain billowing, the feel of the man's shoulder's against her hands, the smell of the sweat on her neck.

There's a lot of power that can be drawn from a sex scene if it's done well, especially if the reader has been eagerly waiting for two characters to finally get it on. Jennifer Egan went as far as describing the sound of the man's belt buckle as it repeatedly struck the floor. 

Even in a sex scene I believe there should be some sort of conflict present, to keep the reader not only excited, but tense. Either internal conflict in the MC's head that makes the act both intense and troubling, or external conflict that threatens to cut the love-making prematurely short. :encouragement:


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## Jeko (Oct 4, 2013)

What do you want to get out of the scene? What do you want the reader to get out of the scene? What does the narrator want to get out of the scene?

Generally, asking yourself these questions for _any _scene will help you make it better.


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## D. E. Forester (Oct 4, 2013)

It's actually an issue I am confronting at this very moment because one of my characters is supposed to treat sex very cheaply and casually, not forming emotional ties or reinforcing existing ones through the act-- it's an act of pure pleasure and pleasure alone for her.

My advice (and I'm doing this right now) is that it should follow the natural flow of the characters involved and the lead up scenes. A major problem I encounter in other people's writing is that they simply do it because they feel they somehow must to validate a scene or relationship, but if you look closely, the transitions are actually quite jarring. Never ever leave the sex scene seeming like "purple prose" (overly flowery or detailed language) compared to the writing around it; it needs the same amount of detail and quality as everything around it, or it will just seem wrong.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Oct 4, 2013)

If I understand you correctly, the important part isn't the sex itself; it's the fact that it happened.  If that's the case, you don't need to show it at all, as long as the reader is aware it happened.  If you set up the characters and situation properly, it should be obvious (and if people aren't comfortable with sex in their books, they can assume it didn't happen because you're not slapping them in the face with it).

I actually had plans to take this concept in the opposite direction with my story.  One character asks another if she can spend the night in his room, but because of who the characters are and what we know of their relationship, it's obvious she's asking for the sake of companionship and nothing more.  I wouldn't have to write "and then they didn't have sex" any more than you'd need to type out a wild scene.  Some things you can just trust the reader to understand.


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## Kevin (Oct 4, 2013)

> the important part isn't the sex itself; it's the fact that it happened.  If that's the case, you don't need to show it at all, as long as the reader is aware it happened.


 That's what I thought, too. Unless there's some sort of importance to 'how' they uhm, then why? Usually a start or an aftermath is enough. JMO


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## Myers (Oct 4, 2013)

That’s like saying the shooting or conversation or fire or encounter in the restaurant wasn’t important; it’s that it happened.  

Why automatically rule out sex as something that can be depicted in a way that adds to the story?


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## Kevin (Oct 4, 2013)

I don't rule it out. I've seen it add to the story, just not typically. I would say it is often pointless, like a 'gore-fest' only...just something for titillation. So they had a conversation? Was it important? So they had sex? Do we need to know more about it?  Those are just the sort of the things I ask myself. Should I write it? Do we always need to see the shooting? Sometimes we don't. He shoots 'em. Big deal. Then what happens? For me the 'why' is more important than the how. jmo...


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## Myers (Oct 4, 2013)

Kevin said:


> I don't rule it out. I've seen it add to the story,  just not typically. I would say it is often pointless, like a  'gore-fest' only...just something for titillation. So they had a  conversation? Was it important? So they had sex? Do we need to know more  about it?  Those are just the sort of the things I ask myself. Should I  write it? Do we always need to see the shooting? Sometimes we don't. He  shoots 'em. Big deal. Then what happens? For me the 'why' is more  important than the how. jmo...



Sorry. I know you didn't rule it out. I was responding more to Gamer's post, specifically where he said, "you don't need to show it all." By that I'm assuming he means fade to black; or skip the scene entirely. And I don't advocate getting into all the mechanics.


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## Sunny (Oct 4, 2013)

I like to read books that show me a sex scene. It doesn't have to be long and detailed to every little movement or sensation. 

I think it's important to keep the sex scene to the taste of your character or characters. If they're the shy type, maybe the scene is less detailed or a little more on the romantic side. If they're the outgoing rough kind of character, maybe you show more of how dominant they are or something.

I think girls tend to like this sort of thing more (just going from the consensus of this forum around this kind of thing). 

My favourite parts in books are when the characters end up together in bed, or maybe in the backyard in the flower garden... who knows! But the taste of the scene itself should reflect your characters. I don't understand why you'd skip over it completely. The love they make or the raw sex they have can show your reader more about them. That's important.

Just like any sex scene in a movie. Jack and Rose (from Titanic) wouldn't have impacted me emotionally like they did, if I didn't experience with them, how they made love for the first time in the back of that old car. It wasn't a long scene, but it showed how soft and gentle Jack was and how he cared for Rose. It wasn't detailed and graphic, but it was enough to show a deep connection between the two, and I guess that's what a sex scene of that kind should be about. It's all about your characters and if you feel it's an important moment for the two of them, it should be shown, at least to some extent. 

I can tell you from experience, that when I read ... (oh God, shall I mention this book! How it frightens me so on here! Lol) Anyway, when I read _Twilight _I was very let down when Stephenie Meyer skipped over the sex scene _completely! _I was NOT alone in this. Me, all of my girlfriends, and colleagues all felt the same. We all complained about the disappointment we felt! Sometimes a sex scene is what the reader wants.


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## The Tourist (Oct 4, 2013)

I don't think such scenes are necessary.  The only one I've ever seen that needed to be in the story was in "The Terminator."  No sex, no John Connor.

I have such scenes in my story, but the characters even never kiss.  I use the chapters for comedy relief and in discussions about the plot, filling in the reader.

Everyone gets the point, but one thing adults really know is that humor and food are bigger parts to the romantic equation than desire and passion.

The worst slice I ever got was not in a barroom brawl, but in the boudoir.  I've learned that getting into a fight with a knife can be dangerous, but stiletto heels and being careless are much, much worse.

Yes, we still laugh about it...


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## Myers (Oct 4, 2013)

My only “advice” would be that if you get to a point in your story where you think a sex scene might work, write it and see what happens. Ruling it out beforehand seems limiting to me.


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## shadowwalker (Oct 4, 2013)

I'm going to go with the "necessary to story or not?" crowd. If it's only the fact that they had sex, there's no need to show it. If what happens (emotionally/physically) during the sex is important to the story, then include it.


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## The Tourist (Oct 4, 2013)

Myers said:


> Ruling it out beforehand seems limiting to me.



When we develop a plot or an outline we are already limiting and eliminating themes and ideas.  If it's a kids' book then ninja beheadings are out.

Any literary choice we make comes at the cost of ruling out something else.  I learned that in penning my new YA novel, "Cape Fear I'm Out of Conditioner."

Like any other human pursuit, sex usually happens when everything else is going right, like perhaps a creative plot.


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## Myers (Oct 4, 2013)

The Tourist said:


> When we develop a plot or an outline we are already limiting and eliminating themes and ideas.



I said ruling it our beforehand. Like this:



The Tourist said:


> I don't think such scenes are necessary.



That means _before_ you start writing. Or plotting or outlining, not that everyone does that. 

You mentioned a book that included sex scenes that you thought were necessary. Seems like if the author had been thinking the same as you do, he wouldn’t have written them. That's what I mean by limiting.


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## The Tourist (Oct 4, 2013)

Okay, fair enough.  Let  me modify the idea.  Most sex scenes aren't necessary.  Many of the books on the shelf had some form of financial success, and prurient interest translates into sales.  Look at "50 Shades."  A financial success and not one female archer in the whole series.

I read a post here where one member said that they did not like excessive description, they preferred to think for themselves about what a character looked like.  In my classic trash novel example, "Angelology," the entire story is derailed by over a score of pages on a former classmate's hair and perfume.  The book was the worst four bucks I ever wasted.

The same with sex scenes.  Let's face it, most books are hashed out as singular pursuits.  What's a guy like that really know about sex?  Okay, the babe's beauty and the guy is buff.  Meanwhile the villain is hatching a really interesting plot in Chapter 17.


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## Folcro (Oct 4, 2013)

While a sex scene does nothing to drive a story, certain aspects of the sex can perhaps apply to character development. Personally, I love sexual tension, but am not a fan of explicit sex scenes, though you could make an argument that it gets into the "nitty gritty" of your character's lives and relationships.

The way I do it, I will apply a rising sexual tension. Then, I will simply state in a line or two that the sex was about to happen, and then move on to something else. If done correctly, the reader is satisfied that it finally happened, and can conjure the details on their own.

The way I see it, explicit sex generally belongs in explicit sex stories, not that I have anything against them.


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## shadowwalker (Oct 4, 2013)

Folcro said:


> While a sex scene does nothing to drive a story, certain aspects of the sex can perhaps apply to character development.



I've written exactly one sex scene, and it ended more about the sensations and emotions and thoughts than it did the physical. So while I could have skipped over it, the characterizations were enhanced by including it, and made later scenes much more powerful. So there are definitely reasons to include sex scenes other than titillation.


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## The Tourist (Oct 5, 2013)

Ya' know, I like sex and I like playing Bridge.  But frankly, I hate watching both.


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## Neagen (Oct 6, 2013)

It seems like so much depends upon you and what you want to do. Or maybe it depends upon what your publisher or what your readership want, if you have those things and if those are your primary concerns.

As Myers has said, I think, go ahead and try it out, see how it feels. I know it's easy to throw the "a" word around, but I think I'm always concerned about trying to find authenticity. And that pretty much comes down to what feels right versus what does not feel right...perhaps for your characters, for the tone of your story, or for what you're "into." 

The fact that you apparently consider a sex scene to be an option, apparently in a range from more implied to more explicit, seems to suggest that you are not one of the many who find them (sex scenes) to be inherently objectionable or pointless. Or are you? 

Personally, I don't find them objectionable or pointless. In fact, I like them.  Not necessarily in all cases, of course. I suppose that I don't like them if they _really do_ disrupt a story or if they are poorly done. And, for goodness sake, people have sex. Well, lots of them do, anyway. And lots of them enjoy it, too. It's very much a part of human life. Why so many people complain that stories about people include people having sex is beyond me. 

I find the advice that you need to cut all things that do not move your story forward curious and, well, dislikable. Okay, I'm sure there are multiple and competing arguments to be reasonably made and to consider regarding that. I'm sure it depends very much upon your goals. And I certainly understand it when applied to screenwriting. Movies and movie budgets have no time for anything like embellishments or detours. Movie stories need to be lean and sparing. Most of them need to be finished within ninety or so minutes. But why would that same kind of paucity of content be desirable for novels or short stories and so forth?   Shouldn't characters in a book be able to stop and smell the roses while on their journeys? Isn't that why we read books? Isn't that why most people (in my anecdotal experience, anyway) say, 'The book was better'?

I'm not assuming that you're writing a book or a short story.  You haven't specified.  Maybe you _are_ writing a screenplay. If that were the case, then my advice would be somewhat different. Then you have to consider things like what ticket buying audience you're going for and what rating the production company expects the MPAA to give the finished film, and so on, and so forth, oh...goodnight! 

Good luck!

 Oy vey.  Hmmm.  This is my first post, and I had a heck of a time getting it to post correctly, namely, copy and paste and then preview in the right way.  It kept mashing words together, and I had to go through the post and manually separate what shouldn't have been mashed together.  Quite discouraging.


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## The Tourist (Oct 6, 2013)

Another aspect of this element is simply money.

For example, a new movie might come out.  And before you even get a chance to buy a ticket there's a news story on the opening revenues and the foreign markets.  Sometimes I sit back and wonder if anyone cares if the work is any good.

So much depends on profit now.  If Romeo and Juliet were filmed today some idiot would include the line, _"What breasts through yon' window breaks..."_

I don't like being told what to think, and I hate being manipulated even while reading.  If the lead and the significant other fall in lust or love--and it's a plot point--then include it.  But if that inclusion is to just make the story more marketable the scene falls flat.

Ask yourself this question, and while I use a touch of humor, consider the idea.  How would you like to buy my book, get caught up in the plot, and then find nine pages of intense description of my lead polishing his bike?  Seriously, imagine a sex scene, but with Windex, BugSlide and microfiber cloths.  You wade through the pages just to get back to the story.

At the day's end you set down my book and find Harley's "bar and shield" logo on the dust cover.  It becomes clear to you that I got a financial kick-back for inserting their products.  Bikes or not, wouldn't you feel ripped off?

An undercurrent to vampire stories is "seduction."  Not rampant passion, but the chess game of predator and prey.  Lots of people find this theme quite provocative.  Do we have to beat each other over the heads with every nuance?  Most sex scenes in books could be completely cut out with a Fellini transition and the story wouldn't lose a thing.


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## Morkonan (Oct 6, 2013)

FlambeNobunaga said:


> ...What I'd like some advice on is wether or not to write an explicit sex scene between the two or just imply it between chapters by ending one with them both going into the bedroom and starting the next one with both of them getting dressed. This usually would be a no brainer but the voice of my creative writing professor is screaming "Show, don't tell!!!" In the back of my head.



Your "Creating Writing Prof" is wrong, here.

Go watch a movie made before 1970, preferably something that has a theme similar to what you're looking for. There will be, likely, a very good job being done in implying what occurs rather than showing it, and there will be no steam/heat factor lost because of the lack of a visual depiction of sex.

Sex is generally not shown or depicted due to a very dangerous thing - Producing art expressly for titillation. So, for instance, if I write a scene in which the two lovers embrace and thats that... How is it any less continuing the scene and describing..."Mechanics." The "Mechanics" add absolutely NOTHING at all to the emotional or evoking value intended by my description of the original scene. However, it does add "titillation value." IOW - That only described in order to evoke prurient interests and having no artistic value that is greater than the sum of its parts.

I'm far from "prudish." I just believe that not all stories would benefit from sexually explicit scenes and that there is no reason, especially one as weak as "Show, Don't Tell", making it necessary to include them. In a book that focuses on adult situations and sexualized romantic interludes, there's no issue, there. That's because that's what those genres are for. But, in a standard work of fiction, there's no need for "mechanics" unless the author must use them in order to build a message that is greater than just the mechanics being described. 

IOW - If you're going to describe your "mechanics" scene in a genre outside of its normal purview, your doing so because you're going to use it to create something that is more, in and of itself, than just the "mechanics" and what they superficially imply, themselves.


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## Myers (Oct 6, 2013)

Morkonan said:


> But, in a standard work of fiction, there's no  need for "mechanics" unless the author must use them in order to build a  message that is greater than just the mechanics being  described.



You could say the same thing about scenes with people doing yard work.

And I don't buy that a scene that titillates can't have "artistic value." My wife was reading a novel by Jody Picoult, who writes "standard fiction" (OK, not exactly great literature for the ages) and she read a scene that she said was "hot." By that I'm assuming she was titillated to some degree, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the intention of the author. So what exactly is wrong with that?


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## The Tourist (Oct 6, 2013)

Morkonan said:


> IOW - If you're going to describe your "mechanics" scene in a genre outside of its normal purview, your doing so because you're going to use it to create something that is more, in and of itself, than just the "mechanics" and what they superficially imply, themselves.



Oh, oh, oh!  I'm glad you brought this up!  Great catch!  The issue of "mechanics."

I don't know what planet some of these writers live on, but I'm not a prude either.  But after I get up early, bust my hump at the gym, wrestle around an 800 pound hunk of chrome in the hot sun all day partying with some chickie-poo, the last thing I want to do is toss her around all night like a Frisbee!

Yeah, perhaps 1969 until 1982.  But after a bit the bruises, the rug burns, the high heel slashes, the fingernail marks and the furniture collisions lose that special "something."

I'd rather spend the evening polishing up Katniss' broadheads...


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