# George R.R. Martin



## Dephere (Aug 17, 2005)

I have been through the recommended reading section and have yet to see the praise the George R.R. Martin deserves. 

The Song of Ice and Fire series is THE best fantasy book I have ever been privileged to read, by far the most engrossing series in the genre. Great characters, paired with one of the most immense plots I have ever read lead to an awesome accomplishment. Any individual who calls himself/herself a fantasy buff without reading George R.R. Martin should be shot...come to think of it they should have their entrails fed to the ravens. 

The series is composed of (so far) three books, the fourth to be released in november. Each volume contains about 1000 pages, enough to keep most readers occupied. The juice is worth the squeze, for even if you finish each book in a night (as I did) it will not leave your mind. The books also appeal to a more mature audience, thank god we have writers far better than J.K. Rawling. An awesomely written book for those of you who do not want to continue you reading the childish books of the past.


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## Hodge (Aug 17, 2005)

It's supposed to be released in November, but don't be surprised if it changes to April. Again.


Almost as epic as The Lord of the Rings, but much more intriguing and fun to read. And much more complex.


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## Dephere (Aug 17, 2005)

Yes, I am a first hand victum of George R.R. Martin postponing his aproximations, but the thing different about this time is that he has finished the book. The only thing left to do is for the publishers to print it, in my book the november estimation is a good one. 

And yes this series is much more intriguing than Lord of the Rings.


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## Hodge (Aug 17, 2005)

Pshh. I've been waiting since 2002 for this book to come out. It originally told me on Amazon.com that it was slated for late 2002. Then it was early 2003. Then late 2003. Then early 2004. Etc.


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## Dephere (Aug 17, 2005)

You should not believe anything that comes from the mouths of stores. George R.R. Martin has a personal site on which he denies any claims to allowing these date estimations, but he informs you of the real release times, albeit these are also estimations. These estimations, however, are much more reliable than the stores.


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## bmroyer (Aug 17, 2005)

sounds interesting, might have to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## Pardot Kynes (Aug 17, 2005)

I love the politics of the books. I really really want to know whats gonna happen with winterfell though.


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## Dephere (Aug 17, 2005)

Yes, bmroyer you should really read these books. 

The politics in theseries is so intricate, but to be blatantly honest I have lost interest in winterfell. My interest is piqued by the wall, mainly because I love not knowing what could come from behind the wall. Dany also has become one of my favorite character.

Can't wait until the next book comes out!


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## Pardot Kynes (Aug 17, 2005)

Dany is more than likely gonna lose my interest now that she is just sitting there. What I meant was about arya and the whole "Valar Morghulis" "Valar Doheris" thing.


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## Kane (Aug 17, 2005)

Martin's Song of Ice and Fire has been mentioned repeatedly in these threads...


http://www.writingforums.com/search.php?mode=results


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## Weretigress (Aug 23, 2005)

Personally, I'm waiting to see what is going to happen to Catelyn, now that her sons and daughters are dead or missing.

Actually, I prefer Dany to Arya.  I would like some more Bran chapters, though.


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## Hodge (Aug 23, 2005)

Bleh. Don't like Bran... Don't like Sansa, either. Arya's okay, but a little predictable and in my opinion, Martin's most cliché character.

My favorite is Jon Snow. I'm very pleased to see that he hasn't died yet—even when it seemed like he was going to.

I also like Stannis Baratheon and Tyrion. Tyrion is the most likeable bad guy ever (and now I think he's going to help put the Starks back into power).

I'm a little scared of what Catelyn is going to do...

Dany is okay, although I wasn't all that interested in her story until the _A Storm of Swords_.

But really, it's so complex and intricate that it could go many ways. The anticipation is killing me.


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## Weretigress (Aug 23, 2005)

Oh, I can't believe I forgot about Tyrion. He's such a thouroughly likeable and yet repulsive character.  One of my favorites.


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## Dephere (Aug 23, 2005)

I do no think Tyrion should be perceived as a bad guy, but I agree with most you had to say.


I think Jon is awesome, but I also think Dany is awesome. The plot is so thick that  I will never get bored with any of the chraracters.


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## Hodge (Aug 23, 2005)

The plot is so thick I don't see how he's going to keep it within seven books... And at the rate he's writing them, I don't see how he's going to finish the series before he dies. That would really piss me off if he died before finishing the series.


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## Kane (Aug 23, 2005)

I got bored with Arya's story line after a while.  She keeps going back and forth, and everytime you think she's in the clear, she gets set back again.  

I've disliked Catelyn from the beginning because she's a bitch to Jon, and Jon's my favorite character.  Although if he is the Lord Commander, he'll never get to take his father's place and rebuild Winterfell.  This means that Bran will probably be the new lord of Winterfell.  I don't dislike Bran, but he's crippled, and can't really do anything by himself.  

I think it's crappy as hell how Robb died.

I've hated Sansa ever since she got her father killed, because of her pettiness.

I like Dany, but I'm worried that her success will mean Jon's failure, if he does end up leaving the Wall and reclaiming Winterfell.

But hell, we're only halfway through, and Martin isn't getting any younger.  The series may never even be completed, which would be a shame.  Then again, halfway through the third book, I was just ready for the damn story to be over.


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## Dephere (Aug 23, 2005)

I think if George R.R. Martin died I would die with him. The never knowing would kill me, not figuratively.


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## Kane (Aug 23, 2005)

Hmmmm, mkay,


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## Dephere (Aug 23, 2005)

I am sorry I just could not live without knowing what happens, and just so you know I would continue living (i was being dramatic).


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## Kane (Aug 23, 2005)

lol, ya think?  =)


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## Dephere (Aug 23, 2005)

Well there are some strange people out there who become very obsessive, just making sure you do not think I am one of those people...or am I?


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## stereomuse (Sep 18, 2005)

**spoilers**
Gah! I love these books so much. Arya? predictable? i think shes the least predoctable character of them all. And i actually think Jon and Dany will fall in love. And i dont think that he's the bastard of Eddard. my theory is that he's Rheagar's and Lyanna Stark's child. Remember the vision Dany had in the house fo the undying. With Rhegar talking about his new son Aegon, and about how his is the song of ice and fire. Well, I beleive Jon is actually Aegon. There is a lot of proof to this theory, and its not an unknown one either. It's very popular on A Song of Ice and Fire Forums. Just think about it, Eddard is much too honerable to raise a true bastard. It was probably Lyanna's dying wish that Jon be taken to winterfell. And In one of the time Eddard was remembering her death, it said she was in a bed of blood, this could also refer to the bed where she gave birth. And do you think Rheagar really raped and murdered Lyanna? From what I hear of him he wasnt the raping kind of guy, and Rhegar and Lyanna supposedly loved each other. 

George's sight says theat _A Feast for Crows_ should be published in the UK on october 17, and in the US on November 8. I think its for real this time. It says hes doing book signing tours and all...


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## Hodge (Sep 18, 2005)

God, I hope he's been working on the next book while this one's been delayed...


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## sisceal (Sep 18, 2005)

Hodge said:
			
		

> Bleh. Don't like Bran... Don't like Sansa, either. Arya's okay, but a little predictable and in my opinion, Martin's most cliché character.
> 
> My favorite is Jon Snow. I'm very pleased to see that he hasn't died yet—even when it seemed like he was going to.
> 
> ...


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## Hodge (Sep 18, 2005)

I like Jaime, too. Another good bad guy. Cersei is just a woman you love to hate... But Jaime is cool. He sounds like the cliché knight in shining armor type guy when other characters talk about him, but he seems really human when we see him on a personal level. A bit warped with the whole incest thing, too.

And Dany... Well, I can't say I'm looking forward to her coming back. She isn't going to care if it's a Stark or a Lannister who stands in her way. Although I imagine she is going to whoop some ass.


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## stereomuse (Sep 25, 2005)

I've never really thought of Tyrion as a bad guy. When he was hand, he did a lot of good. He's just an opposing view point. Thats what I like about this series, characters arent black and white, they're usually a nice shade of grey. Except for maybe Joffrey.


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## Hodge (Sep 25, 2005)

Joffrey wasn't really black or white—just very blue.


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## InChains (Sep 26, 2005)

stereomuse said:
			
		

> George's sight says theat _A Feast for Crows_ should be published in the UK on october 17, and in the US on November 8. I think its for real this time. It says hes doing book signing tours and all...



Of course it's real.


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## ThatWierdGuy (Sep 26, 2005)

Hey, Martin is still 57, and reportedly has much of the fifth book written.  If his fourth book does release in November, isn't it same to say that he can come out with 3 more books in around 15-17 years most?  I think he will still be alive in his seventies.


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## Hodge (Sep 26, 2005)

Maybe... Vonnegut's in his 80's and he just released a new book. But then again, he's a very angry man with a purpose in mind. 

I really hope so. It'd be nice if he'd write some other stuff, too.


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## Kane (Sep 28, 2005)

> I like Jaime, too. Another good bad guy. Cersei is just a woman you love to hate... But Jaime is cool. He sounds like the cliché knight in shining armor type guy when other characters talk about him, but he seems really human when we see him on a personal level. A bit warped with the whole incest thing, too.



Er... Isn't Jaime the one that pushed Bran out of the window at the beginning of the story?


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## ThatWierdGuy (Sep 29, 2005)

I agree, although I think Jaime is going through the beginnings of self-redemption at the moment.  We see is character go through a change as the series progresses.


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## Hodge (Sep 29, 2005)

> Er... Isn't Jaime the one that pushed Bran out of the window at the beginning of the story?



I never liked Bran.

The way all the other characters describe Jaime makes him out to be that typical knight in shining armor. And then when we get to his chapters we see how human he is. Martin is an incredible writer...


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## Kane (Sep 29, 2005)

Bran only sucks because he is disabled and young, and we don't want to see him in a place of power...


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## Hodge (Sep 29, 2005)

I didn't like him before. He's too childish for me. Even Arya I like more. Not Sansa, though.


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## Dephere (Oct 10, 2005)

Jaime did us all a favor, but I have to admit I would like Bran much more if he wasn't crippled. 

I am so happy to say that George R.R. Martin is for real this time with the 
Nov. 8th date.

Another thing I am so happy about that I can't explain is that I get to meet George R.R. Martin in about a month. Suffice it to say I am excited. 

Oh, and someone earlier said "of course its true", well for your information George R.R. Martin has pushed his release date back numerous times. Also so that you all know he is halfway done with his fifth because they split the fourth for length reasons. So a fifth will be along much quicker than the fourth, at least I hope so.


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## stereomuse (Oct 19, 2005)

does anybody have it yet? It's out in the UK.


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## Hodge (Oct 19, 2005)

I'm going to order it off of amazon.co.uk. Three weeks is three weeks...


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## CZ (Oct 20, 2005)

Ordered it from amazon.co.uk, have it in hand.  Won't spoil anything but so far I quite like it.  I'm going slowly with it just to savor it (and because there will probably be quite some time in between this one and the next).


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## Hodge (Oct 20, 2005)

Now, that's odd... The UK version has different cover art.


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## Talia_Brie (Oct 20, 2005)

I saw someone with that in their hand at the train station yesterday. I almost knocked them over and grabbed it.

Instead I think I'll go to the bookstore today.

And it's not unusual for cover art to change internationally. US cover art generally sucks hard, and the rest of the world doesn't want to put up with it 8)


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## Hodge (Oct 20, 2005)

The U.S. cover art looks better to me (it's the top one).


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## Talia_Brie (Oct 20, 2005)

Well it doesn't suck, but I don't think it's better. :lol:


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## Hodge (Oct 20, 2005)

You know what does suck, though? On Amazon UK they already have a page for the next book, _A Dance With Dragons_, and it had a synopsis which I accidently read. Now I know who _doesn't_ die...


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## Dephere (Oct 22, 2005)

I hate when I do things like that, and inevitably I always do them. Thank you for the warning...now I know not to go to that part of the site. 

And if you would like to see just how much cover art changes from place to place take a look at George R.R. Martin's site. Generally the U.S. versions are much better looking than the others (can you guess where I am from?).

I'm counting down the days between now and the slated Nov. 8th release of the book, and shortly after the book comes out I will get. Although I only have a few days to grab it if I want it for the book signing.


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## Dephere (Nov 11, 2005)

I got the book, just yesterday and I am already almost finished. Kind of dissapointing considering how long I had to wait to get my hands on it, but great nonetheless. 

The book is missing my favorite characters so it is somewhat devastating to not see them here. I still love George R.R. Martin's writing though, he makes even the mundane parts of the story flow seamlessly into the overall picture of things.

Anyone else have thoughts on this book?


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## Hodge (Nov 11, 2005)

Haven't had a chance to start it yet, but I've read numerous reviews. There'll be few of the characters we're familiar with because this is the beginning of Act II; it's laying the groundwork like _A Game of Thrones_ did.


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## Dephere (Nov 11, 2005)

I understand why my characters are missing (*sniffle*), but I was just commenting on the fact that I miss them. And it will be hard to wait for the next book, but fortunately the wait will not be as long as the last....hopefully.


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## PaPa (Dec 2, 2005)

stereomuse said:
			
		

> And i actually think Jon and Dany will fall in love. And i dont think that he's the bastard of Eddard. my theory is that he's Rheagar's and Lyanna Stark's child. Remember the vision Dany had in the house fo the undying. With Rhegar talking about his new son Aegon, and about how his is the song of ice and fire. Well, I beleive Jon is actually Aegon. There is a lot of proof to this theory, and its not an unknown one either. It's very popular on A Song of Ice and Fire Forums. Just think about it, Eddard is much too honerable to raise a true bastard. It was probably Lyanna's dying wish that Jon be taken to winterfell. And In one of the time Eddard was remembering her death, it said she was in a bed of blood, this could also refer to the bed where she gave birth. And do you think Rheagar really raped and murdered Lyanna? From what I hear of him he wasnt the raping kind of guy, and Rhegar and Lyanna supposedly loved each other.



In that case, why are there confirmations of Jon's mother as being Wylla (or whatever she's called) from two unrelated sources?


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## stereomuse (Dec 6, 2005)

**spoilers**
there were never confirmations... It said she loved Ned. It was well known, i dont even think there was ever even confirmation that she was pregnant. She was just some unstable girl. In my point of view Ned is too honerable to cheat on his wife. I didnt make this theory up, its one i picked up off of another song of ice and fire board. And before i'de heard of it i always doubted that that girl was actually Jon's mother, she just doesnt seem like the kind of gal Ned would go for. I'm not saying the theory is true, its just the one i like best.


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## blankslatejoe (Dec 6, 2005)

not sure if it was previously mentioned, but feast for crows and dance of dragons take place simultaneously, as was announced on martins site (georgerrmartin.com). All those characters you miss will be the focus of the next book, I believe. Then things tie back together again for book 6.

I'm halfway through the fourth one now.. it's well written, but is a step down in my opinion.

I found that with book three, and moreso with book four, he's getting more and more drawn out. A lot more characters doing a lot ...less....

with Book one and two his plot was MOVING, things were happening, his editor wasn't letting him get away with things. 

now:
everyone is traveling somewhere and searching for something or someone and no one is DOING anything..it's all transience. What keeps us interested? contrived chapterbased conflicts like 'oh no, the guards at the gate are pricks!' or 'these travel buddies might not be reputable, let's agonize over it for a few pages and fine a creative way to ditch them'.

granted, I'm only halfway through book4, but I felt this way about the brienne and arya arcs for all of book 3, and so far I'm being treated to more of the same here. It's not bad writing at all, it's still brilliant.. just ...
underedited in my opinion.

I wonder if, when Martin said "er..book 4 will be big.", the publisher said something like...well.. we're making a killing off of these books, make it bigger and we'll split it in two.

hrmm


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## Mean (Dec 7, 2005)

BSJ mentioned the fact that A Fest for Crows and A Dance With Dragons take place simultaneously. It is my understanding that the two books were supposed to have been one. He had to cut the book in two because of the length.

But this is just what I heard.


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## blankslatejoe (Dec 7, 2005)

yes mean, they were meant to be one. Martin posted a blog entry on his site about it a few months ago. When he decided to cut the book into two though, he did NOT just divide it in half.. he took out half the characters and let them tell their story in the first book, then is backtracking to tell the second half of the character's story, one running concurrently to the events in Feast, in the Dragons.

I'm assuming, since I'm halfway through Feast and they've barely been mentioned, that Dance will involve mostly the Jon, Danarys, and Tyrion, arcs.


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## stereomuse (Dec 7, 2005)

i agree with you on book 4 being slow, but book 3?
**spoilers**
book 3 was one of those most plot moving ones of the series. Robb's death at the Red Wedding, i did not excpect that at all, Joffery's death, it had jaime for the first time and showed his transformation from being a cocky spoiled kid to a well developed, very human, and likeable character, And the atack of the others on the fist of the first men, Lord Commander Morment's death, Johns rise to Lord Commander! (that was huge!). Davos becoming hand, the attack on the wall, Tywin's death, Tyrion and everything that happened to him, Brienne wasnt even a POV in book 3 i dont know why you brought her up, and Arya? She eliminated a lot of people from her list, got needle back, and left freakin westeros!
**end spoilers**
Book 3 had so much in it, i loved it.


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## Kane (Dec 7, 2005)

I felt book 3 dragged on a lot too.  I like Arya's character, but I got way sick of reading about her always travelling, never reaching her destination.  Robb's death really bummed me out too, as I was counting on him to avenge his father and rebuild Winterfell.  I like Jon, but he is stuck on the wall, and is a bastard to boot, making it unlikely that he will do anything beyond battle the wights and barbarians from the north.  I do like Dany's character, and though her presence on Westeros will put her in contention with the starks, at this point I welcome it.  I kind of see her ending up with Jon, but I don't know if that will be possible.


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## blankslatejoe (Dec 7, 2005)

stereomuse.... yeah it was ayra and brienne's arcs that made it slow for me. Unfortunately, that was a hefty chunk of the book. I LOVED the rob, jon, and mostly the tyrion arcs. ESPECIALLY the end of tyrions. Don't get me wrong, book 3 ended with a bang and had some heavy fireworks, but he was spending too much time ...wandering without a clear conflict..something that comes doubleso in book 4.

though, aryas arc is MUCH cooler now.


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## blankslatejoe (Dec 7, 2005)

oh, and that's only when comparing book 3 to 2 or 1, during which a lot more seemed to be happening in less time... book 3 was still a solid, enjoyable read.. don't get me wrong.


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## Mean (Dec 8, 2005)

Everybody knows what's going to happen to Arya. I haven't read Feast yet (I'm hoping to get it for Christmas, and if I'm lucky, the hardback will be out), but I know what's going to happen to her.


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## stereomuse (Dec 9, 2005)

why would you be lucky if the hard back was out?
dang, i didnt know _Storm_ got so much hate... I thought Robb's death was the most unexpected part in the whole series. Stuff was starting to look up for him. He had just made that cool plan to take back Moat Cailin, and i was really looking forward to see him meet up with Howland Reed, that guy sounds awesome.


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## Hodge (Dec 9, 2005)

I think he meant paperback.

I thought the second book was the weakest, myself. The only thing I didn't like about the third one was the horrible wrenching of my emotions (I liked Caitlyn, I liked Robb, and I like Jaime enough to be a little angry at Tyrion for lying to him) and the the four year wait for the next installment.


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## Dephere (Dec 10, 2005)

Hey, guys. Just wanted to say that I met George R.R. Martin and he is an amazing man. It is so strange to see him in person, I was just in awe while in his presence. He looks exactly like he did in his picture on his website, but his hair is all white now (which brings my fear of him dieing before the series is over up again). He is an awesome man and has a great sense of humor. I suggest that serious fans should go to a book signing, it's well worth it.

If any of you were wondering, Arya is going to be in a Dance of Dragons, as well as Asha Greyjoy. The others may or may not have a few chapters in the next book, but this information cam straight from George R.R. Martin's mouth.


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