# I am sick and tired of the plot to every single series/serial movie being like this



## belthagor (Sep 9, 2014)

Ok so basically there is a hero....and they run around, and like 50 guys are chasing him/her, but then he/her jumps into a waterfall, while not getting hit by rocks at the bottom. Later on hero defeats them dramatically. Oh and there is lots of shooting and running around in between....etc etc, and this is many current series on tv. Actually screw the whole thing, from now on I am watching anime on the internet, and that finishes it.

Discuss.


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## Gavrushka (Sep 9, 2014)

When enough people feel the way you do, they'll stop. Until such point, brace yourself. 

Anyhow, I much prefer to read; I watch very little television.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 9, 2014)

Frankly, if one only looks at basic plots or specific action scenes, most forms of entertainment are repetitive, whether it's movies, tv, or books. Most of the time, I'm looking at a lot more than that to decide whether I like the specific movie, tv show, or book.


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## Bishop (Sep 9, 2014)

belthagor said:


> ...from now on I am watching anime on the internet, and that finishes it.



Ah yes, nothing cliche about anime. -_-

As said, TV tropes are always repetetive if looked at in such a zoomed-out way. I look for depth of character in television, and actors that compel me. But, as noted, reading is still far superior. Television for me serves two purposes: 

1) Time with the wife (it's difficult to read together and still be engaged with one another, but TV is a little more social)

And 2)







I really can't get enough of these dumb action movies. And Star Trek. LOTS of Star Trek.


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## No Cat No Cradle (Sep 9, 2014)

Okay, I am going to come in as devil's advocate here because I see a lot of people saying how low grade TV is but I entirely disagree. Yes, there are bad shows and yes there is a lot of repetition but that is EVER medium. And it has gotten so much better within recent years, it is almost unbelievable. Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, Boardwalk Empire, Homeland, (even though it has been around forever, it is still amazing today) Doctor Who, Sherlock, Luther, I could go on and on about how much better the writing has gotten in the world and I wouldn't say any art form is above another to be honest. We are coming onto a real golden period in Television in my personal opinion.

As for the main point of this thread, there are thousands of tropes way more used than that one in every medium. It is how people are. They like familiar and that is how it goes I guess but you can't focus on one thing like that or you will be disappointed in most things.


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## Bishop (Sep 9, 2014)

No Cat No Cradle said:


> We are coming onto a real golden period in Television in my personal opinion.



This I actually agree with, mostly because the advent of streaming and the like is forcing networks all over to up the ante on their quality. In the nineties, we had little choice but to watch whatever sitcom they had on, but now there's a focus on trying to pull viewers off of the internet and into their shows, as well as to have things worth selling to the streaming services.

Dramas as a whole are making a big resurgence, as television's sustainability attracts better calibers of actor away from film, which is beginning to degrade if you ask me.


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## Miles-Kirk (Sep 9, 2014)

Most stories that revolve around a hero as a protagonist share the same plot model. It's called, funnily enough, hero's journey (James Campbell Monomyth). If you look at Star Wars, The Matrix, even the Wizard of Oz, share the same plot arcs. Just an easy model to follow, that has proven over time to be very fruitful. However, when I am reading books or watching movies, I am that loser who points out the realism of what you describe.


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## Kyle R (Sep 9, 2014)

belthagor said:


> Ok so basically there is a hero....and they run around, and like 50 guys are chasing him/her, but then he/her jumps into a waterfall, while not getting hit by rocks at the bottom. Later on hero defeats them dramatically. Oh and there is lots of shooting and running around in between....etc etc, and this is many current series on tv. Actually screw the whole thing, from now on I am watching anime on the internet, and that finishes it.
> 
> Discuss.



Survival is a reliable goal for writers to give their protagonists. The obvious sources of conflict come in the shape of others trying to _end_ their survival.

The problem (to me) isn't such external conflicts, but a lack of _internal_ conflict to spur on character growth.

Done well (again, IMO), external conflict should be there to serve the internal arc.

Tom Hanks' character in _Cast Away_ faces a series of pointless external conflicts in his fight for survival. But they gain poignance and impact because we see how the external obstacles change him internally, how his flawed beliefs are chucked aside and he experiences a reawakening as a result. Suddenly, all his obsession over punctuality means nothing. Suddenly, he realizes there is more to life than the ticking of a clock. 

Suddenly, when everything has been taken away, he realizes it's love that he wants more than anything.

In television writing many refer to this as the "C-story", the plotline that follows the internal change of the character. The A-story is the external conflict line. The B-story is the relationship line.

A lot of shows don't even have a C-story. They follow a formula that the producers want to introduce the conflict of the episode, then have it resolved by the final act. 

It's unfortunate, but a lot of viewers don't _want_ to see characters change and grow. They want the same characters they know and love to defeat new obstacles each and every week. The writers write to that.

So, I say, don't blame the shows or the writers—blame the viewers because that's what they want.


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## Schrody (Sep 9, 2014)

belthagor said:


> Ok so basically there is a hero....and they run around, and like 50 guys are chasing him/her, but then he/her jumps into a waterfall, while not getting hit by rocks at the bottom. Later on hero defeats them dramatically. Oh and there is lots of shooting and running around in between....etc etc, and this is many current series on tv. Actually screw the whole thing, from now on I am watching anime on the internet, and that finishes it.
> 
> Discuss.



Anime is love, anime is life 



Gavrushka said:


> When enough people feel the way you do, they'll stop. Until such point, brace yourself.
> 
> Anyhow, I much prefer to read; I watch very little television.



I rarely watch TV programs (the only time I watch TV is when I watch a movie), but I'm "stuck" to another screen  Although,I do a lot of things on my laptop, so it's not like I surf all day. You believe me.... right? :|



Bishop said:


> Ah yes, nothing cliche about anime. -_-



Now, now, Bishop. What's so cliched about anime? The fact people like it? I'm sure that Star Trek is not at all cliched (to be clear, I like 'em both, and I don't it's cliched just because a lot of people like to watch certain show). 

Watch an episode of some good anime, you might be surprised


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## Schrody (Sep 9, 2014)

Hey Bish, congrats on your 8th green thingie!


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 9, 2014)

Schrody said:


> I rarely watch TV programs (the only time I watch TV is when I watch a movie), but I'm "stuck" to another screen  Although,I do a lot of things on my laptop, so it's not like I surf all day. You believe me.... right? :|



Of course we do Schrody :roll: (And thanks :cat


As for me I only watch television if there is something interesting. It seems that all there is on TV these days is reality program like the Real Housewives of Wilmington Delaware or something of the sort. So I listen to music. :-({|=


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## Bishop (Sep 9, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Now, now, Bishop. What's so cliched about anime? The fact people like it? I'm sure that Star Trek is not at all cliched (to be clear, I like 'em both, and I don't it's cliched just because a lot of people like to watch certain show).
> 
> Watch an episode of some good anime, you might be surprised



My contradicting tastes is thoroughly documented in my house. My dislike of anime is stemmed from... okay, I'm not really sure, but there are a couple that I like. Bebop and Outlaw Star, really. Anything else and I find myself rolling my eyes. I appreciate some of it. Attack On Titan is the one my wife and my comic book buddy have been attempting to drag me to like a horse to a watering hole, and while I see why it has appeal, and I see why it's a quality anime, every time I sit down to watch it, I just start making jokes in my head. I swear, that key is to his dad's porn collection.

That being said, you're more than right. Star Trek is just as cliched at times, if not more so. My point was that if Bel's upset about the same tropes being used over and over in a TV show, anime is not a gleaming beacon of originality.

And thank you for the congrats about my new eight green thingy. I'm naming it Robert.


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## Schrody (Sep 9, 2014)

mrmustard615 said:


> Of course we do Schrody :roll: (And thanks :cat
> 
> 
> As for me I only watch television if there is something interesting. It seems that all there is on TV these days is reality program like the Real Housewives of Wilmington Delaware or something of the sort. So I listen to music. :-({|=



No sweat. 



Bishop said:


> My contradicting tastes is thoroughly documented in my house. My dislike of anime is stemmed from... okay, I'm not really sure, but there are a couple that I like. Bebop and Outlaw Star, really. Anything else and I find myself rolling my eyes. I appreciate some of it. Attack On Titan is the one my wife and my comic book buddy have been attempting to drag me to like a horse to a watering hole, and while I see why it has appeal, and I see why it's a quality anime, every time I sit down to watch it, I just start making jokes in my head. I swear, that key is to his dad's porn collection.
> 
> That being said, you're more than right. Star Trek is just as cliched at times, if not more so. My point was that if Bel's upset about the same tropes being used over and over in a TV show, anime is not a gleaming beacon of originality.
> 
> And thank you for the congrats about my new eight green thingy. I'm naming it Robert.



It's okay if you watched some and decided it's not your thing. I don't like people pushing others to do something they don't want to. Then again, I really hate when people say something and they don't know anything about the topic. Yes, anime is not "vaccinated" against cliched plots, but it's really hard to find one. Attack On Titan, Dragon Ball, Death Note, they all have original plots  It's impossible to compare typical Hollywood action movie and an anime. That's all I'm saying. Besides, we love some things just because they are cliched/trash. 

Say hi to Robert from me!


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## Bishop (Sep 9, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Besides, we love some things just because they are cliched/trash.



And that, my dear, is why Rambo III is fantastic. And Robert says hello!


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## Schrody (Sep 9, 2014)

Bishop said:


> And that, my dear, is why Rambo III is fantastic. And Robert says hello!



That's so nice of him!

Yes, and almost every Schwarzeneeger's movie!


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## Deleted member 56686 (Sep 9, 2014)

Schrody said:


> That's so nice of him!
> 
> Yes, and almost every Schwarzeneeger's movie!




Yeah except the one where he played the Governor of California :lol:


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## popsprocket (Sep 9, 2014)

If all the movies you watch are the same it might be time to watch some different genres. 

Go trailer-surfing on youtube, but only pick indie movies. Indie movies have really stepped up their game in terms of budget and talent in the last 10 years. Not all of them are great films, but by and large they're almost all better than the mainstream drivel that comes out to appease the 14-year-old popcorn crowd.


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## Poet of Gore (Sep 10, 2014)

belthagor said:


> Ok so basically there is a hero....and they run around, and like 50 guys are chasing him/her, but then he/her jumps into a waterfall, while not getting hit by rocks at the bottom. Later on hero defeats them dramatically. Oh and there is lots of shooting and running around in between....etc etc, and this is many current series on tv. Actually screw the whole thing, from now on I am watching anime on the internet, and that finishes it.
> 
> Discuss.




Actually, i am working on a project with Michael Bay right now. Basically, it is about SnowJive from GI JOE but he accidentally went in a teleportation pod with a t-rex...didn't see the t-rex chilling in the back when he came in. Anyway, before he gets teleported some Hawaiin kid dumps the pod off of a waterfall, but this doesn't matter coz, get this, in mid air the teleporter shoots him into another pod in Oprah's castle. 
now Oprah was all high and out of chips ahoy cookies and she thinks the pod is the fridge and just starts fressing everything in the pod. Then, about 9 months later while smoking crack with Dr Phil, these t-rex arms burst out of Oprah's stomach and Dr Phil was like "sweet sassy molassy, i am glad that happened before she urinated on my rug because the rug really ties this room together." but then the head of Snowjive comes out and Dr Phil is like "omg its a ninja, yo, gonna get my iphone and record this in portrait and not landscape coz my birth name is Richard Handler."

but then Snowjive just beat Dr Phil into a living death and all these women got smarter in the world because they no longer watch Dr Phil.

Already working on the prequle with a super mythology to the whole thing

find me on twttter, then kill me


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## No Cat No Cradle (Sep 10, 2014)

popsprocket said:


> If all the movies you watch are the same it might be time to watch some different genres.
> 
> Go trailer-surfing on youtube, but only pick indie movies. Indie movies have really stepped up their game in terms of budget and talent in the last 10 years. Not all of them are great films, but by and large they're almost all better than the mainstream drivel that comes out to appease the 14-year-old popcorn crowd.


I wouldn't go that far. Sure there have been mindless major studio movies but there are plenty of phenomenal ones as well and I would say the ration of good and bad are pretty similar on the two levels in my personal opinion.


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## Arcopitcairn (Sep 10, 2014)

Bishop said:


> Ah yes, nothing cliche about anime. -_-
> 
> As said, TV tropes are always repetetive if looked at in such a zoomed-out way. I look for depth of character in television, and actors that compel me. But, as noted, reading is still far superior. Television for me serves two purposes:
> 
> ...



80's action is like candy to me. Just watched Commando yesterday. I love Freddie Mercury on steroids in his chain mail wife-beater.


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## Bishop (Sep 10, 2014)

Arcopitcairn said:


> 80's action is like candy to me. Just watched Commando yesterday. I love Freddie Mercury on steroids in his chain mail wife-beater.



This is in my rec room:


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## Arcopitcairn (Sep 10, 2014)

Good lord. So awesome.


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## Bishop (Sep 10, 2014)

Arcopitcairn said:


> Good lord. So awesome.



Yeah, I think it's important to have art in your house. My wife says we should have things like "pictures of us instead of Kurt Russell" or "maybe a few less sci-fi posters from the 50s and 60s?"

Silly girl.


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## Kevin (Sep 10, 2014)

Maybe some on-black-velvet  PBN?  Russell as Elvis...eh?


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## Arcopitcairn (Sep 10, 2014)

Bishop said:


> Yeah, I think it's important to have art in your house. My wife says we should have things like "pictures of us instead of Kurt Russell" or "maybe a few less sci-fi posters from the 50s and 60s?"
> 
> Silly girl.



They...just don't understand.


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## Schrody (Sep 10, 2014)

Arcopitcairn said:


> 80's action is like candy to me. Just watched Commando yesterday. I love Freddie Mercury on steroids in his chain mail wife-beater.



Anyone who says otherwise, is, indeed, a monster :mrgreen:


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## Seedy M. (Sep 10, 2014)

I think there are good movies out there. I know some of the background stories have everything I would look for.
Then the "special effects" crowd get it and it turns to garbage.
Tongue-in-cheek stuff like Jackie Chan, who treats the choreography like the joke it is (any one of the 42 moves that are in most "action" movies are deadly, friends. The idiot isn't going into a roll and come flying back at you feet first from thirty feet away). If you just want to look at sexy girls, even full hardcore porno - or guys, if that's your thing - there's a free x movies site where you can download literally thousands of that kind of thing. (Xvideos.com). A roommate filled the comp with dozens of them I had to delete to be able to use the thing.
I had a horrible experience with that, personally, when a book was wanted for a movie. It was about a plague and the people fighting it. It was SciFi, so they added a space war and a hot passionate affair between a pretty lab assistant and a soldier from the antagonist country - which there wasn't one of in the book. War or antagonist country.
I took my book home, leaving a strong threat of action if they tried to do that to me. If it was good enough without that crap, it wasn't going to have it.
"But that's what people _want_!"
I haven't met many people, then.


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## Morkonan (Sep 10, 2014)

belthagor said:


> ...Discuss.



Heroic Adventure stories. It's a sub-genre. And, it's a sub-genre because... its Readers have a particular expectation of what lies in wait between the covers.

The "Conan the Barbarian" series is a hallmark in Heroic Fantasy. What's a typical Conan story like? Well, Conan beats the snot out of everything. gets the treasure, defeats the godling/chief/monster/army and gets the girl in the end, or the middle, or towards the beginning... and whether she acts like she wants him to or not. Why? Because, he's Conan and that's the way he rolls. Gottaproblemwithit? 

Ah, "John Carter of Mars." Another Heroic story, this time just as much sci-fi as fantasy. But, John Carter runs around, kicks butt, saves the city, beats the snot out of everything, gets captured, beats some more snot out of stuffs, gets the princess, wins the day, goes back as a hero and then beats out some more snot. Why? 'Cause he's JohnFrigginCarter, that's why! Gottaproblemwithit? 

What about "Laura Croft?" What does she do? Well, she may show a feminine side, here and there, since she's a girl an' all. But, she doesn't care about getting her makeup mussed up while whipping up on the bad guys. "Indiana Jones?" Same deal. Indy kicks butt, runs around a lot, tries not to kill unless there is no other way and gets the girl or saves the day. As long as he's got his magic hat, everything is fine! But, if he's not wearing his hat... what happens then?  What about others like "Doc Savage?" "Tarzan?" How about the current "X-Men" movies that follow a similar paradigm? (A little more gritty and angsty than a typical "Heroic Adventure" story, though.) 

These are classic heroic action/adventure/fantasy/science-fiction  stories. "Heroic" stories call for... heroes doing heroic stuff. There's a heroic formula that works pretty good and if it's going to have a lot of heroic action, there's only so much "good" heroic action one can do. How does a hero go about heroically brushing their teeth? Driving to work? Filling out office-supply requests? Or, what about really interesting yet not traditionally heroic stuff, like mowing the grass or telling your kids about the birds and the bees? (I'd love to see some parody pieces of heroes doing those things...  )

Heroes have adventures, it comes with the name-tag. And, if you have a popular hero, you're going to naturally build on the expectation that the hero probably has adventures... lots of them. Progressing from that idea into a series or serial is natural. It's why heroic figures are so often found in series pieces. What would one expect from an accountant? (Well, I guess they could join a bunch of monter-hunting mercenaries, like in Correlia's series "Monster Hunters, Inc."  )


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## thepancreas11 (Sep 10, 2014)

You've hit on the age old argument that everything's been done before. The industry as a whole has gone and "jumped the shark". You're not alone; a good amount of musicians would agree with you on that one. Hell, scientists would even have something to grumble along those lines. How am I supposed to makes something new and different in an age with 7 billion people and an awful lot of recorded history? How can I separate myself from the masses and become the special me I want to be? I mean, people don't even read books anymore....

I seem to remember a series about wizards selling a few copies...and one about kids in a stadium where they fight to the death....

Look, if you want original material, you can find it. Look at Breaking Bad. Look at 30 Rock. Look at House of Cards. If you want to find some good T.V., it's already out there. You just have to look harder.

And another thing, monomyth, or the hero's journey, has been around since...well, since stories started getting told, really, but plenty of stories written along that same vein can be a blast to read. It's like in music how a song can use the same four chords as another one and mean something totally different, and even if it doesn't, you can still dance to it just the same. Stop thinking so much and just have fun. You can only analyze so much before your head explodes.


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## T.S.Bowman (Sep 10, 2014)

Morkonan mentioned some very good "Heroic" characters and I would offer up one more.

Dirk Pitt from any of the Clive Cussler novels of years past is a very good literary (and yes, I'm using the term lightly) example. But whether or not it's cliched or whatever you want to call it, there is no denying (at least, not by me) that Cussler novels are a blast to read. 

A cliche, when well written, can be a lot of fun.


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