# The Ice Bucket Challenge is Stupid.



## Sam (Aug 25, 2014)

Don't get me wrong: the money and awareness being raised is fantastic, but the psychology of human beings has once again come to the fore over the course of the last five days. Roughly ninety per cent, I would wager, of the people doing the challenge have absolutely no idea what ALS is and are only participating because it's become popular and the in-thing to do. Each video has become more about one-upmanship than promoting the cause for which it was originally intended. 

About four years ago, I created a character who suffered from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. The man was in the prime of his life when the disease struck him. After studying the condition and learning how horrific it was, I felt compelled to donate £250 to one of the larger ALS charities. I met with a neighbour whose mother had had ALS and asked him if he would mind telling me a little about what she went through. Let me tell you what I learned: ALS is one of the worst diseases imaginable, because it's slow-acting. First, it targets a particular area of the body (usually starts with an arm), destroys it, and moves laterally (how it gets its name) to the other arm and does the same. This may take anywhere from six months to a year to happen. Then it moves to a leg. This takes significantly longer (the largest muscle in the body, after all), at the end of which the sufferer loses the ability to walk and is confined to a wheelchair for the rest of their short life. This process can take two years. Then it moves to a lung. The person loses the ability to breathe for themselves, one lung at a time. They're bed-ridden and put on a respirator. The disease is so horrible that it destroys the large muscles and organs first. One of the last things it goes after is the heart, which means that ALS sufferers not only lose the ability to walk and breathe, they have to wait for the damn thing to target the heart, which all in all can take up to five or six years of agony and torture. 

Pouring a bucket of water over your head is _nothing _compared to what a person with ALS goes through on a daily basis, and I think it says a lot about the human race that we have to be 'entertained' by silly challenges in order to reach for a chequebook or learn about something that other people live with every day. This challenge has raised millions, and I applaud that, but it's become a fad that everyone is doing not because they have even the slightest clue what ALS is or what it does to those who suffer it, but because they can't be seen to be _not _doing it. 

That's why it's stupid, in my opinion.


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## dither (Aug 25, 2014)

Yup, i totally agree mate.


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## Pluralized (Aug 25, 2014)

I agree, but being the cynical person I am, have to applaud the tenacity of pop culture when it comes to trendy new stuffs. Especially when it involves filming oneself doing something stupid. The bright side of this one is how they've been able to generate something like $70M[SUP]1[/SUP] which is way up from years past. My mom lost her long-time boyfriend to ALS, and I got to watch the end of his life. It wasn't pleasant. The lack of options in treatment in the 1990s left him with a terribly debilitating condition within a few short months. 

So, yeah - I dislike trendy 'selfie'-type crap as much as the next guy, but I'm glad to see that it actually might effect some real, tangible good.


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## Potty (Aug 25, 2014)

The problem I have with it is that if you do the challenge you can get out of donating the money. Which means that being seen to do the challenge is publically saying you're not going to donate any money. I'm aware, of course, that many still choose to donate... But the idea was originally that you have to donate as a forfeit for not doing the challenge; as evidenced by Patrick Stewarts classy attempt at the challenge. Something about that doesn't add up to me.


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## Bloggsworth (Aug 25, 2014)

Tell that to the disabled people helped by my daughter doing the challenge...


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## Terry D (Aug 25, 2014)

It's no different than the thousands of 'Fun Runs' for any of a hundred different charities. This one is just a new twist and plugs into people's need for attention. There are far more stupid things happening everyday. In my opinion we should celebrate a non-violent, effective (albeit probably very short-lived) money raising stunt.


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## dither (Aug 25, 2014)

Terry,
you got it in one.

"needs for attention".


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## Schrody (Aug 25, 2014)

Bloggsworth said:


> Tell that to the disabled people helped by my daughter doing the challenge...



Blogg, nobody's bashing the challenge, the thing is people doing challenge, and not donating (or don't mention where to donate). What Potty said.


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## Apple Ice (Aug 25, 2014)

The fact everyone is doing it is good. I know as writer's we like to shun the mainstream, but this sort of mainstream is essential for charities. If the novelty of it gets someone to donate £3 then good I say. If people do it but don't donate then they're fools, I think. I just don't find it very funny to watch which is my beef with it


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## E. Zamora (Aug 25, 2014)

People simply aren't going to be aware of something like ALS unless it touches their lives in some way. They are probably not going to look into it or give money otherwise. There are a lot of causes, a lot of terrible diseases, and many that have a much higher profile. Even the rather bland acronym "ALS" makes it less memorable than something like "breast cancer." 

So here we have a promotion that has successfully overcome those obstacles in a unique and creative way, and as result, a lot of awareness has been raised and a considerable sum of money. I'm sure some percentage of the people who have taken the challenge don't take it seriously and some of them won't give a dime, but so far, I haven't seen a compelling case that will convince me those things outweigh the positives.

So call me naive, but "I think it says a lot about the human race" that so many people are now focusing on the negatives of the challenge and not the good that will come out of it.


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## Sam (Aug 25, 2014)

I already applauded the money and awareness that is being raised. That's the good of the the challenge. 

The negative of it, on the other hand, is the people who are doing it and not donating. Or the people who have no idea (nor care) about ALS and are doing it for a laugh or likes on Facebook or to be popular. I'm focusing on those people. They see other people doing it and they think, "Oh, I have to do that because Johnny did it!" That says more about the human race than most people care to admit.


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## Bishop (Aug 25, 2014)

Potty said:


> The problem I have with it is that if you do the challenge you can get out of donating the money. Which means that being seen to do the challenge is publically saying you're not going to donate any money.



This is one of my two issues with it. If you do the ice bucket challenge and do the ice, without donating, you're basically saying you'd rather be in frigid pain than give money to charity. My other issue is that a butt load of water has been wasted doing this stupid challenge. In a world where clean water doesn't get to a good portion of the population, this is a nice example of how people with excess waste and showcase themselves without any concern for the actual issues. It's slacktivism, and while I applaud all of the millions made already from this viral campaign, I can only wonder how much more would have been made if most people had donated money instead of wet clothes.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 25, 2014)

I guess I don't see how the negatives or unintended consequences even come close to outweighing the benefits. Chances are those people would be doing some other silly thing on facebook, so I can't see that it makes a difference. Otherwise, we'd have to get into some tired discussion about social media and narcissism etc. and that doesn't have anything to do with ALS.


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## BobtailCon (Aug 25, 2014)

I agree. I don't understand why people have to pour water on their head rather than just look up the charity and donate... And a bucket of ice water? Is that SUPPOSED to be bad? I used to do that with friends on hot summers.


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## dither (Aug 25, 2014)

Bishop said:


> This is one of my two issues with it. If you do the ice bucket challenge and do the ice, without donating, you're basically saying you'd rather be in frigid pain than give money to charity. My other issue is that a butt load of water has been wasted doing this stupid challenge. In a world where clean water doesn't get to a good portion of the population, this is a nice example of how people with excess waste and showcase themselves without any concern for the actual issues. It's slacktivism, and while I applaud all of the millions made already from this viral campaign, I can only wonder how much more would have been made if most people had donated money instead of wet clothes.



Absolutely Bishop.


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## Pidgeon84 (Aug 25, 2014)

People not donating and just doing it for doing it is a non issue. Did Plur say they've raised 70 million dollars? Tell me again how this is a bad thing? I did it,  I'm currently unable to donate, but I can spread the word. That's the point of the whole thing. We're complaining about something completely and utterly asinine. To make my point, I'm going to repeat the dollar amount. 

*70 million dollars *


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## Bishop (Aug 25, 2014)

Pidgeon84 said:


> People not donating and just doing it for doing it is a non issue. Did Plur say they've raised 70 million dollars? Tell me again how this is a bad thing? I did it,  I'm currently unable to donate, but I can spread the word. That's the point of the whole thing. We're complaining about something completely and utterly asinine. To make my point, I'm going to repeat the dollar amount.
> 
> *70 million dollars *



I get it.

But I bet it'd be a f***ton more if people would have donated $10 instead of "passing it on" by pouring water over their head. I'm not against it as a whole, I just gravely dislike those who do it as a fad, those who do it to be a part of the crowd, with no concern or care for the reason behind it. I bet the vast majority of these people would have dumped ice on their heads whether it was for a good cause or not; anything to get 'likes'.


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## Potty (Aug 25, 2014)

Nobody ever said that the money raised is a bad thing or that the publicity should stop. We're mearly pointing out some interesting observations about humanity and their ideas.


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## Sam (Aug 25, 2014)

Potty said:


> Nobody ever said that the money raised is a bad thing or that the publicity should stop. We're mearly pointing out some interesting observations about humanity and their ideas.



Precisely. 

At the start of this thread, I said "the money and awareness being raised is fantastic". So why is everyone getting caught up on the one thing I (_et al._) don't have a problem with? The cause is good. The people who have no idea about the cause or the illness, and are only doing the ice bucket challenge for likes or because everyone else is, are the people I have a problem with. Ask them what ALS is and they don't have the first notion. 

Those people aren't doing it to raise awareness or money. They're doing it for themselves.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 25, 2014)

Potty said:


> Nobody ever said that the money raised is a bad thing or that the publicity should stop. We're mearly pointing out some interesting observations about humanity and their ideas.



I think calling it "stupid" goes beyond that.

I'm so tired of all the negativity. Some people are trying to do  something good and mostly succeeding, and some just want to find fault  and point their fingers at the people who might be doing it for the wrong  reasons. It's disheartening.  

But I can see that this is kind of issue  where you're probably not going to change anyone's mind, so I'm going to  bow out. I'm glad to see that there are some people here who are on the same page as I am though. Cheers.


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## dither (Aug 25, 2014)

Life eh?


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## Sam (Aug 25, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> I think calling it "stupid" goes beyond that.
> 
> I'm so tired of all the negativity. Some people are trying to do  something good and mostly succeeding, and some just want to find fault  and point their fingers at the people who might be doing it for the wrong  reasons. It's disheartening.
> 
> But I can see that this is kind of issue  where you're probably not going to change anyone's mind, so I'm going to  bow out. I'm glad to see that there are some people here who are on the same page as I am though. Cheers.



Calling it 'stupid' was psychology at its finest. 

I'll let you figure out why.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 25, 2014)

Never mind. I said, I'd bow out, and I'm going to stick to it.


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## Pidgeon84 (Aug 25, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> I think calling it "stupid" goes beyond that.
> 
> I'm so tired of all the negativity. Some people are trying to do  something good and mostly succeeding, and some just want to find fault  and point their fingers at the people who might be doing it for the wrong  reasons. It's disheartening.
> 
> But I can see that this is kind of issue  where you're probably not going to change anyone's mind, so I'm going to  bow out. I'm glad to see that there are some people here who are on the same page as I am though. Cheers.



This, it's kind of finding the opposite of the silver lining. The money wouldn't be there otherwise. I mean, sure, maybe the mainstream has turned into a annoying fad, the mainstream spoils everything. But we're really finding the negative in a great thing here.


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## dither (Aug 25, 2014)

I suppose the bottom line is,
it's always the bottom line isn't it,
that a truly deserving cause pockets a few quid.
And the posers?
Well, they're ephemeral.


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## Bishop (Aug 25, 2014)

That's my issue with it. There were 100 ways to incorporate this challenge that has everyone giving money. $10, dump a bucket of ice on your head, and pass it on. But no. It's the idea that if you do something self deprecating, you don't have to give money. Me? I just gave money to ALS when my wife's facebook friends urged us to participate. I was told, "Whoa, you mean you're not going to do the ice bucket?!" Might just be me, but shouldn't it be the better option to give the money, not to make a facebook post?


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## Greimour (Aug 25, 2014)

Can't agree with your view at all Sam.
::: 'The ice bucket challenge is stupid' :::
^^ The view I disagree with ^^


I know what you are saying, so I will just put it as simply as I can.

When I was eleven, I took part in a sponsored run. I had no idea what for, but I did it anyway. I was sponsored by a lot of people and I didn't know why so many were willing to donate so much money. £1 per person was the average (and back then it went a lot further than it does now) - and half of them didn't even ask what they were donating to. I had to run 10 or so miles (I don't clearly remember the distance).

So by your definition, I am stupid for not knowing what I was doing it for and for not donating myself? That they are idiots for not even asking what they were donating to? That if they were better human beings they would donate without someone having to do a sponsored run?

~~~

Sorry, but I see no difference in what I did when I was eleven to what ... 90% you say? ... people are doing with the ice bucket challenge.


ALS? If someone came knocking on my door asking me to donate £1 a month to help ALS, I wouldn't have given them time of day.
Someone knocks on my door asking me to donate to ALS if they tip a bucket of frozen water on their head; I ask them what ALS is.

I don't do it for the entertainment factor - I don't have any intention of making sure they actually did pour a bucket of ice over their head.
I do it because someone is going the extra mile for a charity. I would rather give money to someone going the extra mile than someone knocking on my door or to an advert on TV. And I don't expect them to donate as well - whether they do or not is equal to whether I do or not.

John donates and does the challenge.
Jake does not donate and does not do the challenge.
Janice does the challenge but doesn't donate.
Jimmy donates without knowing what the hell he is donating too but doesn't do the challenge.
Jamie doesn't donate and doesn't know what the charity is but raises £2,000 doing the challenge.

^ Ice bucket challenge, fun run, sponsored walk or anything else. It's the same no matter what the event is. But I would still rather donate to Jamie than to an advert on TV. Out of them all, I don't criticize any of them. The first charity is at home and I don't know Jake's circumstances. Equally, Janice might be the type who doesn't trust charity, but just to raise awareness of the illness does the challenge anyway.

Jamie might've only did it for the popularity - but compared to how other people gain and maintain popularity, I think his method is probably the most noble.

~~~

I really get what you're saying. I just can't bend my thinking to match yours and I don't think it is stupid at all. 

Men in black: "A person is smart, people are dumb"

No matter the reasoning behind generating awareness or donating to the cause - the ice bucket challenge is genius. For no other reason than it successfully got so many people involved, generated so much awareness and raised so much money.

On those three points alone, the ice bucket challenge is genius.

~~~

As for what it says about humanity - I think those points were made completely obvious long before the ice bucket challenge.


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## dither (Aug 25, 2014)

Greimour,
over-looking your fixation with the letter "J",
It's  this "cashing in" of "b" list celebs,
it just,,,
well you know where i'm going here.
Would be celeb gets exposure, and said charity trousers a few quid.
Beggars can't be choosers eh?


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## Greimour (Aug 25, 2014)

dither said:


> Greimour,
> over-looking your fixation with the letter "J",
> It's just this "cashing in" of "b" list celebs,
> it just,,,
> well you know where i'm going here.



I went with all J's for no particular reason at all. But the B-Listers don't bother me either.

If I was raising money for a rarely heard of chairty and some B-lister chose to do a ridiculous stunt rather than donate money - as a result, it generated huge awareness and raised thousands of pounds ... do you think for a single second I am bothered by the fact he didn't donate? I would have nothing but gratitude for them for helping raise so much awareness and for managing to get donations out of so many people.

Their reasoning behind their actions matter little to me. The results on the other hand would make me eternally grateful.

Again, what it says about the individual or humans as a populace - no concern of mine - but the event that raised so much awareness and money, whether B-lister, A-lister or Joe Bloggs... pure genius. For coming up with something so effective.


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## dither (Aug 25, 2014)

Yup,
the bottom line.
Can't argue with that.


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## Sam (Aug 25, 2014)

Greimour said:


> Can't agree with your view at all Sam.
> ::: 'The ice bucket challenge is stupid' :::
> ^^ The view I disagree with ^^



You do understand why I titled it like that, don't you? It's psychology. People can't help but read something that has a controversial title. That's the only reason I titled it in that manner. 

For the record: I don't think the ice bucket challenge is stupid. Rather, I think those people who have no idea what it is, or what they're doing, are stupid and cashing in on a fad because of peer pressure, fear of being left out from the crowd, or just to generate likes and comments on their pages. That's stupid. The principle behind it all (raising money and awareness) is fantastic. Those who are using it to further their own agendas are wagon-jumpers and should be ashamed of themselves.


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## Terry D (Aug 25, 2014)

Bishop said:


> That's my issue with it. There were 100 ways to incorporate this challenge that has everyone giving money. $10, dump a bucket of ice on your head, and pass it on. But no. It's the idea that if you do something self deprecating, you don't have to give money. Me? I just gave money to ALS when my wife's facebook friends urged us to participate. I was told, "Whoa, you mean you're not going to do the ice bucket?!" Might just be me, but shouldn't it be the better option to give the money, not to make a facebook post?



Ten thousand people in North America refusing to dump a bucket of water on their head isn't going to put one drop of water in that kid's mouth. People will always gravitate toward new and flashy fads. To lament that fact is a waste of energy. At least this fad is relatively harmless and actually does someone some good. I'd also be willing to bet that many of the folks who've participated have also donated.


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## Greimour (Aug 25, 2014)

Sam said:


> You do understand why I titled it like that, don't you? It's psychology. People can't help but read something that has a controversial title. That's the only reason I titled it in that manner.
> 
> For the record: I don't think the ice bucket challenge is stupid. Rather, I think those people who have no idea what it is, or what they're doing, are stupid and cashing in on a fad because of peer pressure, fear of being left out from the crowd, or just to generate likes and comments on their pages. That's stupid. The principle behind it all (raising money and awareness) is fantastic. Those who are using it to further their own agendas are wagon-jumpers and should be ashamed of themselves.



Well, that view is easier to agree with. 

I have been nominated for the ice bucket challenge by my dad. The series of events is what interested me to begin with. A person I don't know didn't donate but because he done the challenge through facebook, his participation still got money (off facebook) for the charity. He nominated my brother who donated the £10 get out of it 'fee' but then did the challenge anyway and nominated my dad. My dad also generated money through facebook but I don't know if he donated himself. Before the ice bucket challenge gained popularity, my dad had never heard of ALS, but after he heard of it and found out about it - he accepted the challenge nomination set by my brother. To make sure I knew about it and got involved he nominated me one of my other brothers and his fiance.


I haven't decided if I will do the challenge or not yet, but if I do, there *will* be people who claim I did it purely for popularity and because it's a fad right now. Saying it was peer pressure and just to join the wagon.

People will have that view.
Equally, people will criticize me if I turn down the challenge, even if I pay the £10 get out of it 'thing'. 

Being nominated is a no win, no win for me. But a win, win for the charity. Whether I do it or not remains to be seen, but that is why I focused on the 'stupid' comment and argued instead it's cleverness.

~~~


There will always be people who use good will to better their own standings. There always has been and there always will be. Humans aren't the only creatures to do this. Equally, humans aren't the only creatures to use a bad circumstance to better their own goals, aims and objectives. 

Survival of the fittest can also be survival of the opportunist. 


Well anyway, I take back what I said about "knowing what you're saying" ... because I misinterpreted your title. But for the 'what it says about humans' part. That remains the same. Such observations were known long before the ice bucket challenge. It's just far more easily noticed when pointed out on subjects hitting such a huge mass of people.


~Kev.


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## belthagor (Aug 25, 2014)

@original post and title, I agree, the only thing is, pouring a bucket of cold water over yourself is cheaper than air-conditioning


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## No Cat No Cradle (Aug 25, 2014)

Some people are broke like me who would love to donate but simply can't. The point of the Ice water was to get it to go viral. If you can't donate then at least spread the awareness. That is the point of the ice bucket, not a cop out issue. I personally haven't been challenged but I would try to donate if I could but if I can't, then I would settle for spreading the message which is the point and that is the fact there. Sure some people cheap out but apparently many many more decided to donate.

As for the waste of water, I can't speak on but trust me more water is being wasted more on tons of pointless things than the challenge. As for the title, I thoroughly disagree with the psychological point because that is click bait and that imo is a real black hole of the internet in recent events.

But that is all I am going to say on this whole thing, not another word in all respect.


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## Sam (Aug 26, 2014)

I expected people to pick up on the irony of the title by now. Yes, it's a bait, but that's indicative of human nature. This thread is entirely about human nature; about how we take something that has tremendous potential and turn it into a carnival act for popularity and the approval of our peers. 

For the last time: *I do not have a problem with the money and awareness being raised*. I have a problem with the people who are uploading videos left and right and don't have the first notion about ALS, nor do they ever intend giving money, choosing instead to throw a bucket of water over themselves to get out of it.


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## BobtailCon (Aug 26, 2014)

Why are people debating the psychology of the title and not the OP?


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## Phase (Aug 26, 2014)

Yeah agree with Sam, humanity turning anything into a popularity contest since well forever. Everyone is trying to out do each other. There is 10 million people in Canada, the States, Europe , Russia and Australia without water and 783 million people in the world. Its a good cause and I believe people should continue to do it but at least do it somewhere where the water won't be wasted like in a swimming pool.


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## Terry D (Aug 26, 2014)

Phase said:


> Yeah agree with Sam, humanity turning anything into a popularity contest since well forever. Everyone is trying to out do each other. There is 10 million people in Canada, the States, Europe , Russia and Australia without water and 783 million people in the world. Its a good cause and I believe people should continue to do it but at least do it somewhere where the water won't be wasted like in a swimming pool.



Again, if you are not taking the challenge in one of those drought plagued areas, then there is no waste of water. Actually, the more buckets of water dumped means more water vapor in the atmosphere and a slightly greater potential for rain in drought inflicted areas. In that respect, we should all be taking the challenge to help those 783 million people.


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## Kevin (Aug 26, 2014)

Somehow doubt any stricken place has ice-buckets. No Ritchie-rich would bother posting from there, would they?


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## Pandora (Aug 26, 2014)

Knowing ALS personally like Sam does I understand where he is coming from. Looking at the challenge as it is, it is kind of stupid, nothing really surprises anymore. I'm sure he is correct there are many doing this from a 'see me fad place' which for me too takes away from the true message that should be getting across. There are  hopefully some who have taken the opportunity to learn and feel what people face with the disease, the awareness factor, which Sam acknowledged. We can hope for that but many I have seen and some I personally know, it feels like their motives don't really lie there where we might hope. Facebook to me is such a me me world, one I have decided not to fall prey to, that is my personal opinion. My wish might have been for a more meaningful challenge in itself, this feels like a shortfall in the name of great suffering. I hope money is given and awareness comes.


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## Potty (Aug 26, 2014)

Saw a woman in the Co-Op early this morning when I went to get some bee- chocolate. She was at the counter buying three bags of ice and grinning at the shop jockey desperate for him to ask her what she was doing buying all this ice. The guy never asked so she prompted:

 "Doing the ice bucket challenges tonight!" 

 "Oh yea? What's that?" (Old boy, probably doesn't get out much hence not knowing.)

 "You get nominated by someone to dump a bucket of water on your head. It has to have ice in it."

 "Oh, why's that then?"

 "Well, because you've been nominated."

"No I mean why would you be nominated."

"Charity."

"Which?"

"I'm going to do it for cancer research I think but my sister is doing it for someone else. Think I've got enough ice?" she says with an attention seeking grin on her face.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 26, 2014)

“I am so, so, so grateful. You have no idea how every single challenge makes me feel, lifts my spirits, lifts every single ALS patient’s spirits. You are really, truly making a difference and we’re so, so, so grateful.”

Anthony Carbajal, ALS sufferer.

[video=youtube;ArO8Cv9IYVU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArO8Cv9IYVU[/video]


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## bookmasta (Aug 26, 2014)

The money is fine. But the people on social media like Facebook who dare each other for no other reason than just that its trending is completely arbitrary and pointless.


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## Sam (Aug 26, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> “I am so, so, so grateful. You have no idea how every single challenge makes me feel, lifts my spirits, lifts every single ALS patient’s spirits. You are really, truly making a difference and we’re so, so, so grateful.”
> 
> Anthony Carbajal, ALS sufferer.
> 
> [video=youtube;ArO8Cv9IYVU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArO8Cv9IYVU[/video]



I don't quite know what part isn't making sense here. I said: *"the money and awareness being raised is fantastic". *

My gripe is with the people like Pots described, who have absolutely no idea what ALS is or what they're doing it for, and some of which don't even know what they're doing. They just want to throw a bucket of ice water over themselves because it's the new big thing.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 26, 2014)

The guy in the video who has ALS doesn’t have a gripe. Why should you? 

It’s an unintended consequence, but it amounts to nothing more than an annoyance. There’s simply no good reason to complain about it given all the positives. What does it achieve?


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## Elvenswordsman (Aug 26, 2014)

My aunt died of ALS several years ago, and the honest expression of this disease is that which my brother said at her funeral;

ALS is like being buried alive.

I don't mind the whimsicality of the acts, nor the lack of recognition by some parties involved; Paul Bisonette, Roosterteeth, and others have done a great job at making it visible and showing what the disease really is.

And a single marketing piece that brought in $50+ Mil? Yeah, unheard of.

This is a great step forward in ending this condition.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 26, 2014)

I think we've finally heard what all the negativity is about: "Griping."


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## Pidgeon84 (Aug 26, 2014)

My final thought on this matter is this; If a group of attention whores are the side affect of raising awareness and money, I have no issue with it. This is just what happens when things go mainstream, the message sometimes doesn't get passed along. But in the end the good outweighs the bad here. To the point of human psychology, it's just as much a habit for people to rebel against mainstream things no matter what is. It's like once a band gets big, old fans will call it a fad and jump off the bandwagon. Just cause people who don't get it get into it, it doesn't take away the merit of it. It doesn't take away the good things (necessarily). 

I'll say this though, I think the conversation we're having is good. Everything should questioned and looked at from every angle. Nothing should just betaken at face value. But my opinion remains the same as it was in the beginning of the conversation. I think we're giving too much weight to a negative thing in what is a beautiful thing. A thing that is going to help a lot of people.

Pidgeon out ya'll!


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## Guy Faukes (Aug 26, 2014)

Pidgeon84 said:


> People not donating and just doing it for doing it is a non issue. Did Plur say they've raised 70 million dollars? Tell me again how this is a bad thing? I did it,  I'm currently unable to donate, but I can spread the word. That's the point of the whole thing. We're complaining about something completely and utterly asinine. To make my point, I'm going to repeat the dollar amount.
> 
> *70 million dollars *



(These are 2012 numbers) Of the money set to the ALSF, only 7% goes to research. So, effectively, only 4.9 million was sent to do actual research, which is pathetically small compared to the overwhelming monetary support that people think is going to help progress our understanding of the disease.

In addition, 66.3% was reported as "Other expenses", besides administrative and fundraising costs...


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## Kyle R (Aug 26, 2014)

The ALSA posted a statement on their website about the money they've received so far: http://www.alsa.org/news/media/press-releases/ice-bucket-challenge-082614.html


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## Sam (Aug 26, 2014)

It seems your post is missing a point, Kyle.


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## Kyle R (Aug 26, 2014)

It was in response to Faukes commenting on how the money raised is being spent.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 26, 2014)

Guy Faukes said:


> (These are 2012 numbers) Of the money set to the ALSF, only 7% goes to research. So, effectively, only 4.9 million was sent to do actual research, which is pathetically small compared to the overwhelming monetary support that people think is going to help progress our understanding of the disease.
> 
> In addition, 66.3% was reported as "Other expenses", besides administrative and fundraising costs...



Where did you get your numbers? I read this in a article in Fortune:

"Charity Navigator’s latest report, for instance, ALSA earned the highest four-star rating,  in part, for spending 72% of its fiscal year 2013 revenue on programs  and services; 11% went to administration costs while fundraising  expenses ate up 16%."

It didn't say what the breakdown was or how much goes to research and how much goes to providing services for patients. Another article I read said since the amount is unprecedented, they don't know how or when they are going to spend it.


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## Pidgeon84 (Aug 26, 2014)

Sam said:


> It seems your post is missing a point, Kyle.



It seems like a lot people who disagree with you are missing the point :roll:


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## Guy Faukes (Aug 26, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> Where did you get your numbers? I read this in a article in Fortune:
> 
> "Charity Navigator’s latest report, for instance, ALSA earned the highest four-star rating,  in part, for spending 72% of its fiscal year 2013 revenue on programs  and services; 11% went to administration costs while fundraising  expenses ate up 16%."
> 
> It didn't say what the breakdown was or how much goes to research and how much goes to providing services for patients. Another article I read said since the amount is unprecedented, they don't know how or when they are going to spend it.



The numbers are from their annual report in 2012. I guess given that a LOT more has been raised so far, those percentages will definitely change for the better. Still, I hope the public keeps a close eye on their 2014 report. Even if they only raised a few million in 2012, 66.3% to "other expenses" is unacceptable.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 26, 2014)

Guy Faukes said:


> The numbers are from their annual report in 2012. I guess given that a LOT more has been raised so far, those percentages will definitely change for the better. Still, I hope the public keeps a close eye on their 2014 report. Even if they only raised a few million in 2012, 66.3% to "other expenses" is unacceptable.



This is from their year ending January 31, 2014 report. I don't see a catagory for "other expenses."


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## Sam (Aug 26, 2014)

Pidgeon84 said:


> It seems like a lot people who disagree with you are missing the point :roll:



Well, see, here's the thing (and this is for the last time): at the start of this thread, I said, and I quote, "*the money and awareness being raised is fantastic"*. 

Yet people continually imply that I have a problem with the purpose and positives of the challenge, when I clearly don't. The ice bucket challenge done by people whose only goal is popularity, likes, or because it's the in-thing, is stupid and pointless and another example of how things become more about the person and the challenge than the actual condition. 

The ice bucket challenge done by people who are genuinely raising money and awareness is fantastic.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 26, 2014)

I get your point. I'm just saying it's irrelevant, given how much good is going to come out of the challenge. What you're saying is the same stuff we've been hearing for years about social media and narcissism etc. This is just another example of it. It's nothing new or particularity interesting. But in this case, it casts a negative light on a positive thing, which I think is equally pointless. But I'll just chalk it up to a difference of opinion.


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## Guy Faukes (Aug 26, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> This is from their year ending January 31, 2014 report. I don't see a catagory for "other expenses."


The consolidated financial summary, which is the complete combination of all expenses in percentage to revenue and total expenses was removed from the 2014 report. If you got back to the 2013 report, only 10% went to research. These numbers may not be entirely reflective of what's going on.

NOTE: I've had someone else who understands financial reports and legal documents lay it out for me. I don't have anything against the fundraising effort, I've studied med sci and know the necessity of it.


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## Terry D (Aug 26, 2014)

Sam said:


> Well, see, here's the thing (and this is for the last time): at the start of this thread, I said, and I quote, "*the money and awareness being raised is fantastic"*.
> 
> Yet people continually imply that I have a problem with the purpose and positives of the challenge, when I clearly don't. The ice bucket challenge done by people whose only goal is popularity, likes, or because it's the in-thing, is stupid and pointless and another example of how things become more about the person and the challenge than the actual condition.
> 
> The ice bucket challenge done by people who are genuinely raising money and awareness is fantastic.



I don't see where anyone has missed that point at all. The point they are making is that complaining about some people bandwagon hopping in light of the tremendous good being accomplished sounds a lot like looking a gift horse in the mouth.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 26, 2014)

Guy Faukes said:


> The consolidated financial summary, which is the complete combination of all expenses in percentage to revenue and total expenses was removed from the 2014 report. If you got back to the 2013 report, only 10% went to research. These numbers may not be entirely reflective of what's going on.
> 
> NOTE: I've had someone else who understands financial reports and legal documents lay it out for me. I don't have anything against the fundraising effort, I've studied med sci and know the necessity of it.



The other thing is, some percentage goes to education and patient services. I don't know enough about it to second guess them or to say whether or not that money is well spent or if more should go to research. 

Again, it remains to be seem how the money for the ice bucket challenge will be spent. One thing I read said some might go into a trust of some kind so that money will be available in the future. But I agree, people need to keep an eye on it.


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## Guy Faukes (Aug 26, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> The other thing is, some percentage goes to education and patient services. I don't know enough about it to second guess them or to say whether or not that money is well spent or if more should go to research.
> 
> Again, it remains to be seem how the money for the ice bucket challenge will be spent. One thing I read said some might go into a trust of some kind so that money will be available in the future. But I agree, people need to keep an eye on it.



Yeah, the "other expenses" point was something I thought of and may not be an actual point of contention.


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## Kyle R (Aug 26, 2014)

Just to point out: the ALSA is rated 4 out of 4 stars by industry watchdog group _Charity Navigator,_ ranking the association near the 100-percentile for transparency and accountability, and near the 90-percentile for finances.

Also worth noting, _Charity Navigator _is one of the leading advocates against high CEO compensations. They're very fervent about watching where the money goes, and they give the ALSA top marks.

Seems to me the money from the challenge is in good hands. :encouragement:


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## aj47 (Aug 26, 2014)

My friend's husband had a kidney/liver transplant.  My money goes there.  Ice bucket or no.

I also do Amazon Smile.  

I don't need the threat of ice to donate but I only have so much.  My $7 will not help much with the hospital costs, but it was all I had (since they only took even dollar amounts -- I have $.56 in my account right now).  I agree that ALS is a worthy cause but I have things closer to home that need dealt with.


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## Potty (Aug 27, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> I get your point. I'm just saying it's irrelevant, given how much good is going to come out of the challenge. -- it casts a negative light on a positive thing, which I think is equally pointless.



We won the second world war... I mean, a shit tonne of people died, but that's irrelevant because it's too negative. We won and that's all that matters, right?

Narrow minded way of looking at life if you ask me. As a writer I personally relish the opportunity to look at the negatives of humanity, it helps make my characters real. Ignoring the sleazy bits of humanity because it doesn't fit in with an ideal just hinders any progress I might make to write a decent average Joe.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 27, 2014)

Potty said:


> We won the second world war... I mean, a shit tonne of people died, but that's irrelevant because it's too negative. We won and that's all that matters, right?
> 
> Narrow minded way of looking at life if you ask me. As a writer I personally relish the opportunity to look at the negatives of humanity, it helps make my characters real. Ignoring the sleazy bits of humanity because it doesn't fit in with an ideal just hinders any progress I might make to write a decent average Joe.



I’m not ignoring the negative. To make your point, such as it is, you conveniently edited out that part when you quoted me. Is that something you’re in the habit of doing “as a writer?”

And I probably wouldn’t compare people dumping water on their heads for no reason to the holocaust or the bombing of Dresden.

Good luck with your writing and your character development.


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## Potty (Aug 27, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> Is that something you’re in the habit of doing “as a writer?”



No, I just thought it was irrelevant


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## Pandora (Aug 27, 2014)

It's not so funny that the OP is jumped on for pointing out what all agree with. That there are _some_ who are doing this for themselves, purely and simply. They are not giving money they don't see ALS. Understand the disgust in that, most especially someone close to those suffering. That is an emotional place and maybe a place where one just expects more. I wonder if people are listening to Sam and trying to feel it.


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## E. Zamora (Aug 27, 2014)

Pandora said:


> It's not so funny that the OP is jumped on for pointing out what all agree with. That there are _some_ who are doing this for themselves, purely and simply. They are not giving money they don't see ALS. Understand the disgust in that, most especially someone close to those suffering. That is an emotional place and maybe a place where one just expects more. I wonder if people are listening to Sam and trying to feel it.



Interesting take, Pandora.

I don’t feel like I’m jumping on anyone. I have a somewhat different perspective, and it also comes from having a family member with a severely debilitating disease. So I’m feeling it. And it’s somewhat annoying that you’re trying to make this about a lack of empathy or understanding. In my case, you couldn’t be more wrong.

While misguided, the people doing the challenge for the wrong reasons aren’t doing anything particularly harmful, other than waste water, and they just might be inadvertently reaching someone who gets it. Whether you like it or not, they are contributing to the overwhelming success of the campaign. I simply don’t feel the need to target them with my disgust, point fingers or disparage them. It just feels sanctimonious to me. And who knows what’s in someone’s heart or mind from watching a video?

In my opinion, this behavior, while unfortunate, is little more than a side note and dwelling on it amounts to nothing more than complaining. It’s basically a “gripe” as the OP said himself.



Terry D said:


> I don't see where anyone has missed that point at  all. The point they are making is that complaining about some people  bandwagon hopping in light of the tremendous good being accomplished  sounds a lot like looking a gift horse in the mouth.



Can't really say it any better than that.


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## Pandora (Aug 27, 2014)

E. Zamora said:


> Interesting take, Pandora.
> 
> I don’t feel like I’m jumping on anyone. I have a somewhat different perspective, and it also comes from having a family member with a severely debilitating disease. So I’m feeling it. And it’s somewhat annoying that you’re trying to make this about a lack of empathy or understanding. In my case, you couldn’t be more wrong.
> 
> ...


Disappointment is very personal and yes can cause someone to complain, none of us are above that, most especially when it involves something we are passionate about. Sam has been honest and true to his feelings, he shared.  I'm not sure anyone thought the challenge harmful, I think we all see it pretty similar. Some might wish it were different, one can hope. We can all understand that.


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