# What do YOU do, specifically, to aid in the creation of ideas?



## The Backward OX (May 4, 2010)

Let’s assume you have a basic idea for a story.

And let’s assume you write out as much of it as you can, and then you realise you’re about 50% short, for a novel-length story. 

What do you do next? 

Do you study cloud formations? 

Do you run snippets through your mind from a part of the story already written, to see if other angles will occur to you?

Do you stick a pin in a page of the dictionary and hope the stabbed word will bring something to the surface? 

Or is your technique something else entirely?


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## T.N. Kettman (May 4, 2010)

I go to my job.  I work with foster children.  That spurs tons of ideas.


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## The Backward OX (May 4, 2010)

If you want to write about foster children, I suppose it would.


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## NathanBrazil (May 4, 2010)

OX, what's your current WIP?  Just curious.


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## Sigg (May 5, 2010)

Sometimes I go on a site like Fark.com and read the ridiculous news stories to get ideas.  Most of my SF stories come from randomly browsing howstuffworks.com, wikipedia.org or some random site.  Usually it will start at one topic that I quickly wanted to look up and then I start clicking links within the article and end up in a completely different place, sometimes that gives me neat ideas.

When I'm really stuck and feel like I haven't written in a while I use prompts.


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

NathanBrazil said:


> OX, what's your current WIP? Just curious.


 

Do you want the short answer?

It’s a novel, about the lure of gold.


Slightly longer answer/tentative jacket blurb:

“The son of an Irish convict grows up in New South Wales determined to overthrow the recognised government. He plans a daring gold robbery, which he carries out with help from a previously-honest English immigrant farmer, to obtain funds for outfitting his rebel army. The gang make off with their booty only to abandon it as the police close in. Its location remains a mystery for over 150 years, when an enterprising pair of rascals devise an excitement-laden plan leading to its eventual recovery.”


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## alanmt (May 5, 2010)

I try to work out stories in the grey time between getting in bed and falling asleep, letting my imagination unravel as my consiousness fades.


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## moderan (May 5, 2010)

I have a big file of ideas I've gotten over the course of the years. When I'm stuck, I read through that. I used to use a clipping service. When I'm really stuck, I strike up conversations with other people.


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## darknite_johanne (May 5, 2010)

Honestly, I do the Laundry. That's where my mind flies. I find my mind blank most of the time in front of the PC, so I go to the laundry, do things that require no use of my mind, watch the water swirl and wholla and angle occurs to me like, "If God can't do anything about a situation, then he must be bound by law!" That kind of stuff. Then I write it on a piece of paper to research it in the Inet to see if someone else had the same idea. Then I would do the laundry again. so I guess that's why the Laundry takes five hours when I do it. haha


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## NathanBrazil (May 5, 2010)

OX- Is there a specific part of your WIP you're struggling with?  Do you use interviews to add authenticity to your characters (obviously only when possible)?


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

NathanBrazil said:


> OX- Is there a specific part of your WIP you're struggling with?


 Sorry. Go back and read my edited OP - the 50% bit.



> Do you use interviews to add authenticity to your characters (obviously only when possible)?


Not sure I understand. Do you mean do I question my characters, or something else? And if the former, you've lost me completely.


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## moderan (May 5, 2010)

He means interviewing other people to add flesh to your characters, Bruce. Like if you're writing about a rocket scientist-go talk to one.


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## NathanBrazil (May 5, 2010)

OX- You're right, I'm not looking at the issue carefully.  But I find solutions to these kinds of problems usually take the form of Ivory Tower solutions.  I would like to see the raw material and tackle the problem head on.  How much of the WIP can you show here?


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

moderan said:


> He means interviewing other people to add flesh to your characters, Bruce. Like if you're writing about a rocket scientist-go talk to one.



Yeah, right, gotcha. Like if I'm writing about a 19th Century maidservant, I'll just saddle up my trusty time machine . . .


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## NathanBrazil (May 5, 2010)

OX- That's why I tacked that on there "(obviously only when possible)".  'Cause I knew you would jump on it, if I didn't.  
Back to my last question.  How much of your WIP can you post here?


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## moderan (May 5, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Yeah, right, gotcha. Like if I'm writing about a 19th Century maidservant, I'll just saddle up my trusty time machine . . .



If you wanted to do that, get in contact with a RenFaire wonk or someone similar, who has a vested interest in acquiring such knowledge. You're in a mood. Perhaps it's all of this fooling-around writing?
Nathan's trying to help.


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

NathanBrazil said:


> I find solutions to these kinds of problems usually take the form of Ivory Tower solutions.


Sorry, I flunked Metaphor 101. What are Ivory Tower solutions?



> I would like to see the raw material and tackle the problem head on. How much of the WIP can you show here?


 
Precious little. I mean, there’s 35K+. Where do I draw the line? 

My problem is that it needs padding out here, there, and everywhere, to increase the word count by up to 200%. Maybe I'll take up drinking; that way I might get some more ideas.:shock:


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## moderan (May 5, 2010)

Ivory Tower usually means that the solutions are only workable theoretically.
I'll beta for you, Bruce.


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

moderan said:


> Nathan's trying to help.


I am well aware of that, thank you, Sir.


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## NathanBrazil (May 5, 2010)

Ivory Tower in general is "engaging in pursuits that are disconnected from the practical concerns of everyday life".  Basically without looking at the WIP, it's difficult to offer practical solutions.  I don't know how much is too much but put a big chunk up there.  I've seen enough of your writing to know that if you put 5k up there, I'll read all of it and want to read more.


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## NathanBrazil (May 5, 2010)

OT-
Mod- Exactly what does "beta" mean? How does it differ from just critiquing a 2k excerpt?


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## moderan (May 5, 2010)

Go over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb, suggest possible corrections and avenues of approach, dispense advice...pretty much act as an editor except for the getting paid part and the paying for the work part.


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## NathanBrazil (May 5, 2010)

OT-
Right. These aren't the higher level "I would have gone this way" comments. The work is complete and there's only so much you can do to assist the author at this point?


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

NathanBrazil said:


> Ivory Tower in general is "engaging in pursuits that are disconnected from the practical concerns of everyday life". Basically without looking at the WIP, it's difficult to offer practical solutions. I don't know how much is too much but put a big chunk up there. I've seen enough of your writing to know that if you put 5k up there, I'll read all of it and want to read more.


 
Thank you.

We may be at cross-purposes, and it may be that the only solution is for me to figure it out for myself. Unless I’m really thick, I can’t see how posting any quantity at all of my stuff will reveal the problem, as what is so far written all hangs together. But maybe I’m thick. Read the following and then convince me. 

The problem is that there aren’t enough different things happening. Maybe these are what the cognoscenti call plot points, I dunno.

I *could* write all manner of “different things”, no problem, the problem would be to write ones that relate to the main thrust of the story. That’s what I meant by “ideas” - stuff that has a direct bearing on the story. If I was writing a story that was supposed to be all about a girl and her thoroughbred horse that she took from town to town to enter in all the local race meetings, and it needed padding out for purposes of word count, it wouldn’t make much sense to slide in a chapter about her taking time off work to attend her grandmother’s funeral, see what I mean? I’d need to find another angle related to horse-racing and use that. *That *is the type of problem I’m facing - finding other horse-racing angles.


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## moderan (May 5, 2010)

NathanBrazil said:


> OT-
> Right. These aren't the higher level "I would have gone this way" comments. The work is complete and there's only so much you can do to assist the author at this point?


[ot]For all practical purposes, yes. It does vary.[/ot]


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## NathanBrazil (May 5, 2010)

OX- It's also possible that you're too close to the WIP to see a way out.  What possible harm could it do?  We would enjoy reading what you posted.  You're best solution is to let Mod Beta.  He would be better at attacking this kind of problem.


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## Joe Moore (May 5, 2010)

NathanBrazil said:


> OT-
> Mod- Exactly what does "beta" mean? How does it differ from just critiquing a 2k excerpt?


Many writers including myself use beta readers. These are usually a handful of trusted friends who are willing to read a WIP or finished manuscript and give honest, useful feedback. I use a mix of fellow published writers along with a few friends that are just avid readers. A fresh set of eyes can always see things that have grown invisible to the writer. And if the same issue pops up from 2-3 beta readers, it tells me there's probably a serious problem to be examined. The biggest value to having a few beta readers is spotting stumbling blocks before the manuscript heads off to the agent or editor.


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## S1E9A8N5 (May 5, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Let’s assume you have a basic idea for a story.
> 
> And let’s assume you write out as much of it as you can, and then you realise you’re about 50% short, for a novel-length story.
> 
> What do you do next?


Have your character(s) interact with characters they haven't interacted with.  Or introduce more characters and more subplots.  I think that's the only thing you can do if you've run out of story with the characters you have now.


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## Like a Fox (May 5, 2010)

Hey OX man, does the 35k+ cover the expanse of your story? As in, have you stopped halfway, or have you finished it and the whole thing needs fleshing out?

In screenwriting we pretty strictly follow the three act structre. The second act is the place you can inflate easiest. That is the act of "complications" that need to be overcome to reach the resolution in the third act. So add some complications, make it all a bit harder for your characters to get to where they need to be. Perhaps add a sub plot. Or a few. If you're looking at doubling the quantity, that's what I'd be doing.

Maybe brainstorm some potential complications. We did this with a classmate yesterday. (She's writing a screenplay about a family who want to sprinkle their deceased parents' ashes on the MCG) so we came up with a bunch of ways that could be done - to give the story some meat. It was fun actually. (Probably because I didn't have to think about my novel for a while).
That said, I'm also currently trying to do the same with my WIP. It requires being creative, which for me comes best if I'm walking or in the shower.


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## Red_Venus (May 5, 2010)

alanmt said:


> I try to work out stories in the grey time between getting in bed and falling asleep, letting my imagination unravel as my consiousness fades.




Great minds...that's about the best time for my over-taxed brain to clear itself of all interuption and just concentrate on my writing. It works wonders for me.


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

Hey, Crazy, thanks for the interest. Fleshing out’s what’s needed. I think I may have known the answer all along. You and a couple of others touched on it, with the idea of adding a few subplots. One concern I have with this however is keeping them relevant to the main story. I guess life wasn’t meant to be easy.

How does one brainstorm alone? My idea of brainstorming is that a bunch of people sit around discussing something, yet I hear writers using the expression all the time as if it’s something they do as a solo act. Beats me.

Hey, that ashes on the MCG problem - toss this one in next time you meet. Have the ashes placed inside a cricket ball. Give the ball to Brett Lee. Have him bowl to Ricky Ponting. Ponting belts shit out of the ball, it goes sailing off towards the Member’s Stand, and halfway there it breaks up in mid-air and the ashes float to the ground.


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## Like a Fox (May 5, 2010)

Haha. That's cool, I'll pass it along. I think her favourite answer was getting the ashes into the line-painters.
Pretty funny. It's based on a true story - her parents have passed and they wanted to be sprinkled on the Melbourne Demons goal square, but that's not allowed, so she's going to make it happen in her screenplay.

I've often brainstormed alone. I had to do it all the time when I did studio arts in year twelve. 
It basically meant I explored every "could do this" option, and what that would lead to.


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## The Backward OX (May 5, 2010)

Red_Venus said:


> Great minds...that's about the best time for my over-taxed brain to clear itself of all interuption and just concentrate on my writing. It works wonders for me.


I do that too, but next morning any ideas generated as I fell asleep have all vanished.


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## spider8 (May 6, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Let’s assume you have a basic idea for a story.
> 
> And let’s assume you write out as much of it as you can, and then you realise you’re about 50% short, for a novel-length story.
> 
> ...


I sew a few seeds early on. A minor hope is that if I need filler material later, I can water these seeds rather than blatantly plonk things in which can disrupt the pacing. The main hope (perhaps the only hope when I first did this) is I think this can also give a lot more depth to things, and filler can be a lucky by-product rather than a necessity. A problem is that, for me, a story seems to have a natural life of it's own and can be building for a climax too soon. The time of climax feels natural but it could be my eagerness, or impatience, to finish. 

Another technique is one that James Herbert, for instance, uses. But it probably needs a certain kind of story: He would have occasional, almost anecdotal, chapters inserted that have a character making his only appearance in the book. Every three or four chapters, maybe twenty pages each for four or five seperate chapters; normally in the first two-thirds of the book so that it doesn't disrupt the climax. I especially remember a chapter in _Lair_ where a man was a flasher. It was like an entertaing one-off little story of about say, twenty pages, where he got killed in the end by the rats that were part of the main story. A chapter I posted, that I know you've read, uses this technique (the forklift one). It can be dropped if needed. It can be included if it benefits the whole. There are seeds planted in it. Nick Hornby says most authors use filler-material 'if they're honest'.

How you do it depends on the story. It's handy to have small-part characters early on that can be family, friends, enemies, lovers, etc., that may or may not be wanted or needed later. The hope is that they will be wanted- even if not needed. (like Herbert's flasher, fillers can be great!).

Sometimes these Herbert chapters can be an entertaining break for the reader if a mini- plot, within a large plot, has reached a mini climax. (If that makes sense.)


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## spider8 (May 6, 2010)

I've just read the whole thread and realise my above thoughts won't be very helpful if, as seems likely, you're at, or near the end. This means you are left with the drudgery of fleshing things out here and there.

Next one, maybe


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## Destroyer (May 6, 2010)

I have so many different ideas running around my head, I try to merge some of them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


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## The Backward OX (May 6, 2010)

spider8 said:


> Another technique is one that James Herbert, for instance, uses. But it probably needs a certain kind of story: He would have occasional, almost anecdotal, chapters inserted that have a character making his only appearance in the book. Every three or four chapters, maybe twenty pages each for four or five seperate chapters; normally in the first two-thirds of the book so that it doesn't disrupt the climax. I especially remember a chapter in _Lair_ where a man was a flasher. It was like an entertaing one-off little story of about say, twenty pages, where he got killed in the end by the rats that were part of the main story. A chapter I posted, that I know you've read, uses this technique (the forklift one). It can be dropped if needed. It can be included if it benefits the whole. There are seeds planted in it. Nick Hornby says most authors use filler-material 'if they're honest'.
> 
> How you do it depends on the story. It's handy to have small-part characters early on that can be family, friends, enemies, lovers, etc., that may or may not be wanted or needed later. The hope is that they will be wanted- even if not needed. (like Herbert's flasher, fillers can be great!).
> 
> Sometimes these Herbert chapters can be an entertaining break for the reader if a mini- plot, within a large plot, has reached a mini climax. (If that makes sense.)


I like this idea. It sounds easy for me and entertaining for the reader. Thanks.


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## Featherpen (May 7, 2010)

I just write down a lot of stuff. I keep journals of my life and of what I dream about, and I jot down anything provacative or interesting that I daydream.


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## Sam (May 7, 2010)

First, let me ask you a question: How many plot lines are in your novel, OX? Are you limiting yourself to one character's POV and telling the story through him/her? 

Consider multiple plot lines and multiple POVs. For instance, have one chapter about the leader of your gold-searching team. Then, the next one about the second-in-command. In the second POV, you could elaborate on the character's distrust of the leader -- have them cogitate on a way to dispose of him after they've got the gold. 

Then, you could have another chapter about a group of bandits who've stumbled onto the kids and realised they aren't out hiking. They tail them and overhear them talking about the gold. They follow them until they discover the location, and try to kill them. 

Then, you could have a chapter about a police officer getting a call from a backpacker who says he recognised one of the bandits from a wanted poster. You could have various chapters about the policeman tracking the bandits throughout the (desert?) with the help of a man versed in that environment -- a tracker. You could even write a twist in by revealing, towards the end, that the tracker was working with the bandits. He takes the officer to a deserted locale and tries to kill him. 

All of these plot lines will merge at the end of the novel. That's something similar to what Spider was talking about, and it's a great way to keep a novel interesting and fresh. 

Hope I've helped.


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## Kat (May 7, 2010)

I had a beginning and an end but no middle with the novel I'm working on right now. 

I took a pile of note cards and wrote out any possible thing that came into my mind. They didn't have to go along the plot as I had it right now. Just anything that the characters could do. Like say someone's aunt dies, or they win the lottery. I killed off a lot of people, I was planning on doing that anyways. But I wrote out possible ways that people could die. 

I ended up with dozens of cards. In that mess there was a logical path with little subplots along the way. As I started reading them over and sorting them out on a possible timeline it just came together. 

It's not very logical but it worked for me.


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## The Backward OX (May 7, 2010)

Sam & Kat - there's a moratorium on killing in my story, but thanks for the interest.

Sam - you've given me the germ of an idea. Not for a plot line, but for a different way to approach the entire problem.  So thanks for that too. This could be the start of something big.


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## Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor (May 7, 2010)

I always have my phone or paper with me and write down interesting ideas. Sometimes my imagination just comes up with something cool randomly. When I want ideas specifically, I just pick random stuff out and word association myself into a concept. 

Pen. Pen is mightier than the sword. Guy with pen gets stabbed while talking about the value of civilized debate. Debate rages in city. There is a conflict about how the city should address a problem. The problem involves the sword-wielding armies. The armies intimidate their own citizens for power. Stuff ensues. 

I'd probably try to add a bunch of different things into that. Well, I probably wouldn't use that by itself. It would have to be fleshed out much more because armies are cliche. Nothing wrong with that, but if an army is corrupt, there has to be an intricate explanation etc, etc. 

I also morph existing ideas into something else. Shakespeare's character Macbeth was someone I found interesting. Macbeth was trying to please his wife, and she encouraged him to do such and such. He was a King who killed other nobles. Neat concept. 

Poor guy tries to kill the entire royal family for himself. Does not care about his wife, who only wants to please him. Insanity ensues, etc, etc.


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## spider8 (May 9, 2010)

After I posted I thought of your Biddy story and thought a good example would be to show this from the dumb Irishmans POV (perhaps 'Irishman' would be self explanatary) (only joking Sam). You could have a little story involving him and then at the end, have the conversation with Biddy but from the Irishman's POV. You could keep your options open to use the Irishman again later, sometimes these ideas can grow arms and legs.


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## Mystery (May 12, 2010)

Listen to music, jam, write music, put insense and candles around, meditate, read, watch something good, go to the beach. I just do anything else I like doing till I feel like writing again.


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## thewordsmith (May 13, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> What do YOU do, specifically, to aid in the creation of ideas?


 
Seriously? I just try to get out of their way. First I'll try working on another manuscript. If I am really blocked, I'll go work on some more physical project (work in my yard, lay landscaping timbers to frame a parking area in my yard, transplant flowers or shrubs, strip paint on doors, sew/knit, etc.) If that still doesn't work, I'll just go veg in front of the television and watch Jeopardy! or Dr. Who or NCIS or whatever ... sometimes even the evening news! My mind never ... NEVER shuts down. Even when I am not physically writing, my mind is still, subconsciously, working on it so, eventually, what comes out of it is going to have something to do with my manuscript stumper.

I know that doesn't help much but ... you did ask.




The Backward OX said:


> tentative jacket blurb:
> 
> “The son of an Irish convict grows up in New South Wales determined to overthrow the recognised government. He plans a daring gold robbery, which he carries out with help from a previously-honest English immigrant farmer, to obtain funds for outfitting his rebel army. The gang make off with their booty only to abandon it as the police close in. Its location remains a mystery for over 150 years, when an enterprising pair of rascals devise an excitement-laden plan leading to its eventual recovery.”


 
As a jacket blurb, it's a little wordy and, as interesting as the first part sounds (immediately went Botany Bay Colony), you lost me at, "previously-honest". And, does the story cover the entire spectrum from "The son of an Irish convict ..." all the way to, "... an enterprising pair of rascals ..."? Perhaps your problem is in the focus. Too broad? Too narrow?


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## Shan (May 29, 2010)

Does anyone besides me have the problem of coming up with ideas for a story, and when you get to the computer to start on it, you draw a complete blank? OR wonder if what you're about to write is even worth the trouble writing because you feel your vocabulary and grammar isn't up to par to being a good writer?  I know this all sounds stupid, but I often wonder if I'm even cut out to being a writer, or if it's just wishful thinking on my part.  I guess I worry too much about it...


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## MrSteve (May 29, 2010)

> Or is your technique something else entirely?


I get my best ideas when driving. I've looked in to this and it makes sense because driving removes the literal part (left side) of your brain. It's busy doing the actual work. You then start to process your thoughts with the artistic side of the brain and make connections you otherwise wouldn't. Other menial tasks will accomplish the same thing but not something like playing guitar since the left brain is involved with the process and the right brain is concentrating on the music produced.

I know you have said you have problems with the 'just before you go to sleep' process and I do for the same reasons. Have you tried setting some time aside just to have a bath or shower. That has worked for me in the past as well.



> “The son of an Irish convict grows up in New South Wales determined to overthrow the recognised government. He plans a daring gold robbery, which he carries out with help from a previously-honest English immigrant farmer, to obtain funds for outfitting his rebel army. The gang make off with their booty only to abandon it as the police close in. Its location remains a mystery for over 150 years, when an enterprising pair of rascals devise an excitement-laden plan leading to its eventual recovery.”


Out of interest, does the novel contain the story of both the Irish convict and the pair of rascals?



> Another technique is one that James Herbert, for instance, uses...


It's a great idea for filling in and there are similar things in 'Once' and 'The Secret of Crickley Hall' which work really well. We're looking at over 50% of the book here though and there might be another technique that could work.

You're looking at around 70,000 words by the sound of it. That means you need acts one and three to be around 17,500 words each and act two to be 35k. If you break down what you currently have, how much more of each act do you need to write?

If you can break it down like this then you can see which areas of the novel need more work (although I suspect it is a little of each).

Also, what is the central question of the story? In most (if not all) stories, there is something that the protagonist is trying to accomplish. Is it finding the gold? If so, what will happen if they fail; what is the benefit if they succeed? 

Sorry if all of these questions seem quite simple and already things that you've thought about but I'm not sure where you actually are with the novel without reading it and I wanted to suggest ways that you could monitor yourself so you know you're fulfilling your goals. I personally find it really handy to know where I'm going with something (eg. I have X thousand words and then I need to move to the next plot point) so that I don't over-write. I thought that the same might be helpful for the opposite situation.



> The problem is that there  aren’t enough different things happening. Maybe these are what the  cognoscenti call plot points, I dunno.


The way I handle 'plot points' is to break down the amount of words I am wanting to write (this is especially relevant for act 2) in to 2000 word chunks. I then take the goal of the piece and make each 2000 word chunk a piece of story that either takes the protagonists closer to there goal or stops them from reaching it. You just alternate these two types until you reach act 3, where you resolve the loose threads before the climax and subsequent denouement.


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## The Backward OX (May 29, 2010)

MrSteve said:


> Out of interest, does the novel contain the story of both the Irish convict and the pair of rascals?


Yes. Oh, yes.

And thank you for the other comments. They all go in to the melting pot.


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## philistine (Jul 1, 2012)

It's not been a problem so far, as strange as that may sound. For short stories, I've always wrote them how I imagined them, and then stopped when they're done. Judging from the two dozen completed I have on this computer, the average seems to be around 2,400 words. That's completely unintentional. 

For my novel (my first novel), I've estimated it conservatively at 80,000 words, though it could as easily approach the 100,000 mark. 

If an idea is incomplete; as in, I have a good idea for something, though a facet of it isn't quite fleshed out and/or clear, complete, etc- I simply don't write it. I let it stew for a few days, or even weeks, and it seems to complete itself over time. I suppose my I'm very right-wing when it comes to the 'plan or not' stance.


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## HooktonFonnix (Jul 1, 2012)

I've never had a problem coming up with enough material for a full-length novel. I have the opposite problem, in fact. I want my WIP to be somewhere very close to the 100k mark, and I'm having a hard time even getting it down to 110k at the moment. I'm not _too_ worried about it, obviously, because I think the quality and completeness of the work is more important than the word count, but there's always stuff to cut, too.

Aside from that, however, I always bounce ideas off my wife when it comes to creating a new scene I'm not sure about. We can usually discuss it until the scene is perfect, even if that means scrapping my original idea altogether. It pays to be married to an honest critic!


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## qwertyman (Jul 2, 2012)

The Backward OX said:


> “The son of an Irish convict grows up in New South Wales determined to overthrow the recognised government. He plans a daring gold robbery, which he carries out with help from a previously-honest English immigrant farmer, to obtain funds for outfitting his rebel army. The gang make off with their booty only to abandon it as the police close in. Its location remains a mystery for over 150 years, when an enterprising pair of rascals devise an excitement-laden plan leading to its eventual recovery.”



Seems to me the answer lies in the brown bit above. 

Does the plan succeed too easily? What percentage of the story involves the search and recovery? Can you introduce another antagonist (a fat man with a gun or a dangerous blonde)?


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## Olly Buckle (Jul 2, 2012)

> a fat man with a gun or a dangerous blonde


Or possibly even a fat man with a gun and a dangerous blonde. 

Slightly more seriously, strange as it may seem I find editing out unnecessary bits makes me end up with something longer, once the ground is clear, so to speak, I start spotting the things I have left out or want to add, before the edit the gaps get hidden by clumps of words.


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## Bloggsworth (Jul 2, 2012)

Absolutely nothing - Nothing stilts creation more than thinking about it too much.


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## Jeko (Jul 2, 2012)

Sleep.


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## Olly Buckle (Jul 2, 2012)

Thinking about it Bloggsworth is right, I don't edit in order to find things to add, it is an unlooked for consequence.


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## Nemesis (Jul 2, 2012)

I used to play scenes in my head when ever I was out walking, biking, or listening to music. It kind of just came to me. I'd think, hmmm that'd be cool. Then a story forms.


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## Ditch (Jul 2, 2012)

I smoke a bowl and drink rum. the ideas flow.


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## ppsage (Jul 2, 2012)

It might be interesting to hear, lo these many years later, if Xo has yet found resolution, in his quest for inspiration.

p.s. Can't handle the rum anymore, on my bad stomach. Walking usually works, but pacing doesn't.


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## JosephB (Jul 2, 2012)

Ditch said:


> I smoke a bowl and drink rum. the ideas flow.



They'd flow for me too. They just wouldn't be good ideas.


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## snowbunny (Jul 3, 2012)

I put on headphones and listen to music and I actually imagine that I'm my characters... Then I picture things they would do and I can usually fill in the blanks with stuff I imagine up.


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## Kyle R (Jul 4, 2012)

Backward Ox said:
			
		

> let’s assume you write out as much of it as you can, and then you realise you’re about 50% short, for a novel-length story.
> 
> What do you do next?



You could make the story longer, through time.

John Irving's novels often follow characters through multiple generations, sometimes the character dies and then their offspring continue the story, grow up, and have their own offspring. Like life, there's never an end to it unless you want there to be.

If your story is too short, add a few years to the story and see what happens, perhaps!

You could also approach it in the opposite direction: start the story early; push the beginning further back in time.

A third option is to add more internalizations. How much time does the reader spend in the main character's head? Could you afford to delve a little deeper? Internalizations (character thoughts/emotions) here and there can add up quickly to a lot of pages.


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## Sam (Jul 4, 2012)

The last post in this thread before Monday of this week was over two years ago. I suspect OX has either finished this piece or gotten past the problem he had in the first place.


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