# Do YOU matter?



## Tatham (Jan 8, 2014)

This is not a thread about morality or anything emotional. I'm actually wondering whether who you are and what you do and have done as a person matters. I ask this because in nearly every book I read I tend to glance at the piece about the author. Often more than not I'm reading a book from somebody that has an awesome job and/or outstanding credentials and qualifications. And sometimes the author has had a tragedy in his or her life that people can relate to. Now I'm not saying that I'm without any of these attributes nor am I boasting how impressive I am; I'm in a full time job as a fishmonger in a supermarket and have artistic qualifications that have never yielded fruition. Hardly impressive, especially when concerning an aspiring writer. I've never read a book by somebody in a similar position in life. What I'm asking is: are agents/publishers sometimes biased when it comes to selecting authors?


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## dale (Jan 8, 2014)

there are so many writers that were "nothing" before, and even during their careers, as far as being wealthy or socially prominent.
i don't understand why you even think this. stephen king was working menial labor in a laundry when he 1st started writing. lovecraft was
an unemployed "loser" basically surviving through family and spouse charity. to answer the question....no. if an agent or publisher thinks
 your work can make THEM money....they're gonna pick you up, regardless of your personal position in life.


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## spartan928 (Jan 8, 2014)

Biased against stellar writing? Biased against self-publishers whose books have sold in the tens of thousands? No. There are loads of examples of authors who lived typical working-class lives until they published something great. In fact, research more authors on wiki. Its more common than you may realize. Thinking about that kind of stuff is a distraction from producing anyway. However, that is not meant to discredit those with education in the writing/literary fields. Aside from the education itself, there is real value in the relationships one builds that can go a long way to breaking into the industry. But, you can still be a fishmonger and work that end. Just takes more pavement pounding.


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## Sam (Jan 8, 2014)

Dale has it spot on. 

What position or profession you hold has no bearing on anything to do with writing. If the story is good enough, it will be picked up even if you're unemployed.


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## Tatham (Jan 8, 2014)

Just something that was on my mind. It doesn't help that some customers I see everyday at work have a certain amount of bias toward me anyway, like a third class citizen or something. Does wonders for the human spirit. I'm not saying this about every author, just books I have on my shelf (and to be honest, not many, considering I'm more of a library guy). People often start with small steps. But I want to know more about the smaller steps that got them where they are today, something I can relate to. Not how successful they are today explained at greater length. So, naturally, I fear that perhaps an amount of bias might exist in the industry I'm applying for. Or in this instance maybe I'm the one at fault for thinking this.

Tell a lie actually, I have a Gene Wolfe book on my shelf and it mentions that he was a respectable mechanic. It's just seldom a book tells you about the origin of the writer in such a way.


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## escorial (Jan 8, 2014)

treat people as they treat you..if they make you feel 3rd class then have a word with yourself for letting customers make you feel like that..as for writing like anything else some people get a helping hand while others struggle to get anything.


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## dale (Jan 8, 2014)

Tatham said:


> Just something that was on my mind. It doesn't help that some customers I see everyday at work have a certain amount of bias toward me anyway, like a third class citizen or something. Does wonders for the human spirit. I'm not saying this about every author, just books I have on my shelf (and to be honest, not many, considering I'm more of a library guy). People often start with small steps. But I want to know more about the smaller steps that got them where they are today, something I can relate to. Not how successful they are today explained at greater length. So, naturally, I fear that perhaps an amount of bias might exist in the industry I'm applying for. Or in this instance maybe I'm the one at fault for thinking this.
> 
> Tell a lie actually, I have a Gene Wolfe book on my shelf and it mentions that he was a respectable mechanic. It's just seldom a book tells you about the origin of the writer in such a way.



 oh. i see. but you have to understand that writers do get to write their own bio pages. very few of them are gonna tell you they were a fry cook at mcdonalds at some time in their life.


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## John_O (Jan 8, 2014)

Tatham said:


> ... I ask this because in nearly every book I read I tend to glance at the piece about the author. Often more than not I'm reading a book from somebody that has an awesome job and/or outstanding credentials and qualifications... agents/publishers sometimes biased when it comes to selecting authors?



As far a non fiction goes, yeah I do believe credentials and qualifications might play into it some. I would think that if someone were writing about tornados the publisher would like to believe the author to have some expertise on the subject. I can't see why it would matter with fiction though.


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## Blade (Jan 8, 2014)

Tatham said:


> I ask this because in nearly every book I read I tend to glance at the piece about the author. Often more than not I'm reading a book from somebody that has an awesome job and/or outstanding credentials and qualifications.



I would say that a bundle of qualifications is a cause for suspicion, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.:joyous:



dale said:


> there are so many writers that were "nothing" before, and even during their careers, as far as being wealthy or socially prominent.
> i don't understand why you even think this. stephen king was working menial labor in a laundry when he 1st started writing. lovecraft was
> an unemployed "loser" basically surviving through family and spouse charity. to answer the question....no. if an agent or publisher thinks
> your work can make THEM money....they're gonna pick you up, regardless of your personal position in life.





Sam said:


> Dale has it spot on.
> 
> What position or profession you hold has no bearing on anything to do with writing. If the story is good enough, it will be picked up even if you're unemployed.



\\/ I recall hearing an interview with the singer John Prine where he mentioned that he once worked for six years as a postman in Chicago which he described as "being at the library with no books". He would get song ideas while out on his beat and could hardly wait to get home to try them out.

If you get hung up on qualifications you would be well advised to quit writing for awhile and rack up some up for yourself, right? If all else fails you could run for public office.:applause:


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## Morkonan (Jan 8, 2014)

Tatham said:


> ....What I'm asking is: are agents/publishers sometimes biased when it comes to selecting authors?



Yes.

But, not exclusively so. If you write well, you're likely to be picked up. If you don't, but you've got a great title or are famous, it's not likely your name is going to carry enough weight to float your terrible book... so, they'll hire a ghostwriter.


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## dale (Jan 8, 2014)

i'l put this in personal terms. my writer bio page is........



> Dale Hollin is a working writer and failed socialite from Indianapolis, Indiana. When not tormented within the confines
> of his own mind, he lives for red wine and sharing the world with his beautiful and beloved daughter. He has works either published or accepted for publication in JWK Publishing, Melange Books, Anytime-Shorts.com, and various other zines.


---------------------------------------------------

that's honest, but it doesn't tell you that while i've been writing, i've been a forklift driver, factory worker, and still work construction today.
i just say what i want to be heard. and that's the power of the writer. we are in control of our words.


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## stevesh (Jan 9, 2014)

Tatham said:


> It doesn't help that some customers I see everyday at work have a certain amount of bias toward me anyway, like a third class citizen or something.



I would suggest that this is you, and not the customers. Most people have busy lives with plenty on their minds. When they see you, they mostly see a fishmonger - it's nothing personal, and doesn't mean they're judging you in any way.

“Shyness has a strange element of narcissism, a belief that how we look, how we perform, is truly important to other people.” 

 Andre Dubus


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## Jeko (Jan 9, 2014)

I rarely care about myself when I write, edit or seek publication. For me, it's all about the work. Thinking about myself is distracting.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Jan 9, 2014)

Obviously for writing purposes, for the actual composition of text, the writing itself should be paramount. But when you think about agents and publishing and all that, my impression is that it's very much about marketing, too. And so I'd say that it's useful (in most situations) if you can present yourself as an interesting and intelligent person who has something to say. Some people cite their job or education, especially if these give them authority in some way. If you can't do that, you've got your personal interests, your opinions, activities you enjoy, whatever. If being a fishmonger isn't interesting, then what _is_ interesting about you? Everybody's got a story--what's yours?


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## Tatham (Jan 9, 2014)

Cadence said:


> I rarely care about myself when I write, edit or seek publication. For me, it's all about the work. Thinking about myself is distracting.


I get absorbed in the work when I write, in the characters and the world. But when outside of the craft I tend to think of niggly little questions like this.




> I would suggest that this is you, and not the customers. Most people have busy lives with plenty on their minds. When they see you, they mostly see a fishmonger - it's nothing personal, and doesn't mean they're judging you in any way.





> “Shyness has a strange element of narcissism, a belief that how we look, how we perform, is truly important to other people.”
> 
> Andre Dubus



Not to say all of them have a stereotypical outlook on jobs like mine. I get some really nice and intelligent people sometimes who I engage in frequent conversation with. While other times it's quite the reverse. Wouldn't call myself shy; perhaps a flawed outlook on life, but never shy.




> Obviously for writing purposes, for the actual composition of text, the writing itself should be paramount. But when you think about agents and publishing and all that, my impression is that it's very much about marketing, too. And so I'd say that it's useful (in most situations) if you can present yourself as an interesting and intelligent person who has something to say. Some people cite their job or education, especially if these give them authority in some way. If you can't do that, you've got your personal interests, your opinions, activities you enjoy, whatever. If being a fishmonger isn't interesting, then what _is interesting about you? Everybody's got a story--what's yours?_


_

_Thank you lasm. Filleting a fish can be interesting to some people, but seldom an agent or publisher. I do have a few other things I can do, like arty farty things, so I'd always have that to help sell myself to the market. I've put together a portfolio of work detailing my own characters (from faces, hairstyles and clothes) and the world itself. I've even done the cover, too, so that might grab some attention; I'd like to continue doing so for future titles.


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## jayelle_cochran (Jan 9, 2014)

I think they care more about your writing than who you are.  When you look at author bios, they purposefully put something great in there (truthful, but great) so people will think more of them, and then search out their book.  It's to generate interest.  Also, when someone writes non-fiction, they need to have some sort of credentials or no one will believe they are an expert enough to write a book. 

That said, there are plenty of authors who haven't had anything significant that has happened in their lives that would benefit their bios.  Or, at least that's what they think until they realize that there is something there.  I mean, we are all the sum of our life experiences.  Although some have had more "interesting" lives on the outside, but it's not always the places you've been or the jobs you've held or degrees you've earned which make you interesting.  

The only qualifications every fiction author needs to be a writer is an imagination.  Everything else is skill that's acquired through practice and learning (if not from a school then from places like here or books or whatever).  Agents and publishers understand this.  So, if you're writing a fiction piece of work, they are going to be more interested in the story than what you life is like.   If you have nifty things like degrees, awards, previous publications, then they will show the agent that others have recognized your talent before.  But, everyone starts somewhere.  So, they are aware that they may be the first to give you a break.  If your work is good, the rest doesn't matter.  Not really.

Oh, and one more note...those who think they don't have enough for a bio, for example, often find after a while that they have more to share than they think.

*hugs*
Jayelle


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