# Comments on a logline, please?



## Mklangelo (Oct 24, 2008)

*When a miscarriage of justice sets her lover’s killer free, a gritty female cop fights for vengeance.  When the man she seeks learns he is being hunted, he sends dangerous allies to stop her, including a killer just as deadly to him.    *


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## Quint (Oct 31, 2008)

I would say two things: 1)  Try to write the logline as one sentence.  2) There are too many personal pronouns in the lines you've written.  I have to think about who the "he," "him," and "her" refer to and I shouldn't have to think about it.

We're told that the female cop fights for vengeance; from that it can be deduced (as one possibility, anyway) that she's going after the killer.  Therefore, there's no need to then tell us that the man she seeks learns he is being hunted.

Honestly, I think you could go with just the first sentence you've written, maybe adding 4 or 5 words revealing the fact that the hunter becomes the hunted.


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## Mklangelo (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks for the replies.  I have revised it.  I don't necessarily think a logline has to be one sentence.  Although this one turned out to be. I believe some stories aren't possible to distill intelligibly into one sentence.  I just think it should be less than 35 or so or so words.

I labored over this thing, since it's the first logline I've written...ever.  So I'm sure it can be knit-picked by me (particularly) or anyone else, but I think this one will work.  That is not to say I won't welcome any and all opinions.  

Thanks and have a good one!


*When the legal system she has sworn to uphold unjustly frees her lover's killer, a gritty female cop seeks revenge, unleashing a firestorm of violence that threatens to destroy everyone around her.*


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## Quint (Oct 31, 2008)

Oh, absolutely - by no means does the logline have to be one sentence, but it's something to shoot for and, more often than not, one sentence is enough.  

I used to cover scripts on the side for a couple different production companies for the extra cash.  My goal in writing a logline was to be concise and, even though I wasn't selling the script, to write something that sounded smart and - as much as warranted - did the screenplay justice.  I wanted the development executives for whom I was working to know that I could write intelligently -- not just in the coverage, but in the logline itself.

Writing a good logline is something of an art form; I always changed a few words or sometimes scrapped my initial logline altogether.  I enjoyed playing around with words and crafting a good line.

I think your revision is definitely an improvement.  Best of luck.


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## Mklangelo (Oct 31, 2008)

Quint said:


> Oh, absolutely - by no means does the logline have to be one sentence, but it's something to shoot for and, more often than not, one sentence is enough.
> 
> I used to cover scripts on the side for a couple different production companies for the extra cash.  My goal in writing a logline was to be concise and, even though I wasn't selling the script, to write something that sounded smart and - as much as warranted - did the screenplay justice.  I wanted the development executives for whom I was working to know that I could write intelligently -- not just in the coverage, but in the logline itself.
> 
> ...



I can show you a logline for a movie that is A-list all the way.  If I would have presented this logline as my own, I fear it would have gotten a similar response.  I appreciate your input.   But I think my logline is at least as good.  

It's Jodie Foster "The Brave One"  Copy and Paste from IMDB  


*"A woman struggles to recover from a brutal attack by setting out on a mission for revenge."*

Generic.  The only thing "unique" in this movie is... What?  She's a DJ?  Whatever.  

NONE of that is apparent in the logline.  

I can certainly make some adjustments to MY logline, but...  

I hope you get my point.  

Have a great day!


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## Quint (Nov 1, 2008)

No, your point is lost on me, Mklangelo.

Have a great day!


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## Mklangelo (Nov 1, 2008)

There is just nothing unique about this logline.  Don't you see that?

It's generic and no more compelling than what I ended up with


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## Quint (Nov 1, 2008)

You're absolutely right!  I should have never responded to this thread to begin with.

My apologies.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 1, 2008)

Given there are a limited number of stories aren't loglines bound to sound generic? Surely the point is to let readers know if the genre is one of their favourites or not?


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## The Backward OX (Nov 1, 2008)

Olly, there’s more than one use for a logline. For all we know the OP may be wanting to pitch a story to a studio executive. And if so he deserves all the help he can get, from those equipped to give it.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 2, 2008)

Sorry if I came across as dismissive, anyone who comes looking for help rather than the usual chit chat deserves taking seriously. What I was trying to say is that giving a clue to the genre is not necessarily a bad thing, not that the log line itself should sound like every other. It is always a bit depressing when you write something different and original and then describing it in a sentence or two makes it sound just like a thousand others. It isn't of course, but that way of describing things always does it to a certain extent, so aren't you describing the sort of thing it is rather than the thing itself?
 Sorry if I didn't add anything helpful Mklangelo, best of luck with it.


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## Wallmaker (Nov 3, 2008)

A gritty female cop hunts down her lover's killer only to become the hunted.

This may sound more generic, but you're telling way too much story in your logline. After reading your line a couple of times, it sounds like this is the main point, so I parred it down. The whos and hows can be held back for the story. I think it's more important to have a simpler logline.


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## Mklangelo (Nov 4, 2008)

Quint said:


> You're absolutely right!  I should have never responded to this thread to begin with.
> 
> My apologies.



Apparently someone does not like to be disagreed with.  But thanks just the same.


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## Mklangelo (Nov 4, 2008)

Wallmaker said:


> A gritty female cop hunts down her lover's killer only to become the hunted.
> 
> This may sound more generic, but you're telling way too much story in your logline. After reading your line a couple of times, it sounds like this is the main point, so I parred it down. The whos and hows can be held back for the story. I think it's more important to have a simpler logline.



That isn't bad.  Thanks!


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## Quint (Nov 4, 2008)

Mklangelo said:


> Apparently someone does not like to be disagreed with.  But thanks just the same.


That's not it, Mklangelo.  You posted a thread asking for comments on your logline.  By "comments" I assumed you meant feedback (i.e., constructive criticism).  I offered feedback and you in return were dismissive, if not defensive.

To wit:



Mklangelo said:


> I can show you a logline for a movie that is A-list all the way. ... I appreciate your input. But I think my logline is at least as good.
> 
> ...
> I can certainly make some adjustments to MY logline, but...
> ...


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## Mklangelo (Nov 4, 2008)

Quint said:


> That's not it, Mklangelo.  You posted a thread asking for comments on your logline.  By "comments" I assumed you meant feedback (i.e., constructive criticism).  I offered feedback and you in return were dismissive, if not defensive.
> 
> To wit:



Point and counterpoint, Quint.  The critic must be ready to be disagreed with, no?

Certainly you have seen me accept with open arms some of the suggestions/criticisms offered in this thread?  

I appreciate your feedback and did not mean to be dismissive.  I completely disagree with your saying I was perhaps "offensive."  

My point was simple.  That logline for the Jodie Foster flick, "*The Brave One*"  was not a single iota more creative, informative or intriguing than my simple one sentence offering that you didn't like.  That's all.   

No offense intended.


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## Quint (Nov 4, 2008)

Mklangelo said:


> Point and counterpoint, Quint.  The critic must be ready to be disagreed with, no?


Yes.



> Certainly you have seen me accept with open arms some of the suggestions/criticisms offered in this thread?


Indeed.



> I appreciate your feedback and did not mean to be dismissive.  I completely disagree with your saying I was perhaps "offensive."


Fair enough.

I appreciate your even-keeled response.  Frankly, I expected you to at some point go off on me here, but you haven't.

From my perspective, it doesn't matter whether I "like" your logline or not.  That's immaterial. Hopefully, when we critique others' work here, it's all about trying to offer an objective, helpful and (hopefully) insightful perspective.  We're here to help each other, aren't we?

My primary reason for registering on and reading this forum is to dialogue with other writers about writing.

I might in the future post a scene or two from a screenplay I'm currently writing and I can almost guarantee that if I do so I'll be cringing a bit when opening the thread to read any responses.  I think that's natural, at least for me.


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## Mklangelo (Nov 4, 2008)

Quint, apparently my reputation precedes me.  But I usually save my going off for the Debate Forum.


:lone:


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## Quint (Nov 4, 2008)

Nope, the first post I've ever read of yours (as far as I know) was the first post of this thread.  I've only recently come back to this board after several months of, well, not coming here.  I've probably read a total of five posts in the debate forum.


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## Mklangelo (Nov 4, 2008)

Quint, have you written several scripts or are you working on your first, just like me?  I'd be happy to trade reads, when your done.  Mine should be done in a few days.  I've really been agonizing over this ending.  

It has to be MY best, and it isn't there yet.  There are a few scenes which I think are weak, and I'm working on those as well.  Let me know if your interested in doing a read for a read.  


Have a good one!


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## Quint (Nov 5, 2008)

Yep, my first, too.  I'd love to do a read for read, but I've just started the script.  I'm literally taking all the notes I've been scribbling over the course of a few months on the backs of coffee house receipts, envelopes and my writing pad and putting them in script form.  It's an unusual approach, but I'm having fun - and that matters to me.

Mklangelo, a while back I wrote a fairly extensive treatment but I felt like I did not have a cohesive story - just a bunch of interesting ideas - and that presented a roadblock for me.  I never wrote the script.   I've finally decided I'm going to do this _my_ way (screenplay-writing books be damned) and I'm actually getting a few pages hammered out.  For the first time, I'm enjoying writing a screenplay.

Let's see if I can get a first act written and if I do that, I'll be happy to send it your way if you're interested.  In the meantime, congratulations on being damn near finished!


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 5, 2008)

For a moment there I thought I was going to have to step between you guys, glad to see you talking about trading ideas. It's very easy to impute feelings into posts that are not there when they are quick replies and not everyone bothers to talk it through. Good on you guys.


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## The Backward OX (Nov 5, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *Olly Buckle*
> 
> 
> _For a moment there I thought I was going to have to step between you guys_


Har! Har! Har!


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## Pooley (Jan 5, 2009)

Mklangelo you are getting the right idea in regards to a log line. Basically, what a log line has is a synopsis or plot, and an emotional "hook".

You touched on the point that the commercial example you found seemed generic. But that is not a bad thing, and in fact that is the point. There does not need to be anything overtly special about a log line. It needs to get a producer interested, and mainly - needs the listener to see *potential* in the story.

It will be the screenplay that has the detail and uniqueness about it. 

As Wallmaker suggested, your original efforts were too lengthy, and yes, they conformed to the word limit standard - but they were too hard to remember or just work out in your head. Wallmaker suggestion is good. 

Everyone who reads this post who is in need of a log line should remember that is not its purpose to describe your story, all you want to do is get the reader / producer / whoever to get the general idea, and go 'I could see that as a movie'.

This is a circulated internet joke, but this log line parody was written for The Wizard of Oz and is an example of how even a complicated epic (in relation to the content and year produced) can be simplified to a line that the reader can get instantly.

"Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first woman she meets, then teams up with three complete strangers to kill again."


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## Mklangelo (Jan 5, 2009)

*A rebellious female cop seeks vengeance after she helplessly witnesses the brutal murder of her lover.


*I really like that Wizard of Oz example.  Funny, a book I'm reading has you write a query letterfor that film*.*


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## Pooley (Jan 5, 2009)

Another good technique more commonly seen in high concept films and ideas, is to use 'What if?' It seems simple and silly but is used more times than would be thought. 

What if a meteor was heading towards earth and we didn't have enough time to stop it?

What if a two men need a certain toy for chistmas but there are none left in the city?

etc etc. Usually only works for high concept though. Still, something to think about.


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## Mklangelo (Jan 5, 2009)

Pooley said:


> Another good technique more commonly seen in high concept films and ideas, is to use 'What if?' It seems simple and silly but is used more times than would be thought.
> 
> What if a meteor was heading towards earth and we didn't have enough time to stop it?
> 
> ...



Well, that's the hook of the story.  Something I understand is more used in a Query Letter, right?


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