# Adultery;



## dither (Mar 14, 2015)

It's just a thought.


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## Blade (Mar 14, 2015)

An odd term actually.:distrust: It is supposed to be a crime yet it starts with the word 'adult'. A mixed message word IMHO.:-k


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## dither (Mar 14, 2015)

It's so easy to judge others Blade but life happens and it's a bitch sometimes.


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## Blade (Mar 14, 2015)

I enjoy judging others myself.:encouragement: What is the point of having standards if you can't apply them? Besides if you assess someone as 'unworthy' and get rid of them it reduces the amount of time when your life will be a bitch.:cheerful:


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## dale (Mar 14, 2015)

well, adultery isn't really a "crime", but it should be, imo. the theft of someone's heart is a far more heinous act than
simply the theft of their money.


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## Blade (Mar 14, 2015)

I just used the term 'crime' for lack of a better word though in many jurisdictions it certainly is as well as being a justification in petition for divorce.

in any case if you judge an adulterer as 'bad news' and shun them it is bound to enhance the quality of your own life.:encouragement:


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## Plasticweld (Mar 14, 2015)

dither said:


> It's so easy to judge others Blade but life happens and it's a bitch sometimes.




I completely disagree with this statement.  First we judge people all the time.  We are only what our values are, while we may not always agree exactly what those values are we will normally only associate with those who have similar values.  If you look at the forum membership and who hangs out where and who is buddies with who, it is self evident.  While it is possible to respect someone with opposing values and priorities it is impossible to be best buds with someone you think is a dirt bag  who  can't be trusted.  All of that process is a form of judging we all do it everyday, this is why the site has a number of banned members, I can think of no instance in which that process happened that it was not a long and difficult process. I can not think of a single time that I read someone's words here and just wrote them off never to respond to any of their posts anymore. I would not call that process easy.

Life does not just happen.  Maybe this is just my perspective but everyday I make choices that represent who I am and what I value. Each new day gives me a chance to be whoever I want to be. It is not random, it is not by mistake.  

Each new day is no different than the quick reply box at the bottom of each post.  You can leave it blank, or you can put in a response.  The response represents who you are and what you think, each time you do that you are opening yourself up to rejection or criticism, or the chance to make a  new friend or gain the respect of the others here. 


If life just happens then you could theoretically just  hit random keys on the key board and it would represent your thoughts and who you were. 

Dither pardon me disagreeing with you to this extent, your words which I take to heart caught me in this fashion...Bob


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## escorial (Mar 14, 2015)

life's very simple... it's people who make it complicated..adultery falls right in there


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## BeastlyBeast (Mar 14, 2015)

Adultery is always going to be around. It's been around since the first marriage - whether you believe that's Adam and Eve or homo sapiens 1 and homo sapiens 2 is irrelevant - What I am shocked by is how inconsequential and rather accepted it has become. 10, 20 years ago, if a person had committed adultery, it was huge. You were shunned by your family, it was in the press for weeks (if you were famous or a politician), and your life was really never the same afterwards. A lot of people felt hurt. Nowadays, it's considered a way to spice up your marriage. At best, it's considered sad but human; simply a common part of a midlife-crisis, destined to happen in longer-lasting marriages, especially if they aren't as romantic or eager as they were on the honeymoon. At worst, it's applauded. I swear, a director or someone involved with Orange is the New Black left her husband abruptly, in order to be with another woman, and the FB comments were nothing but praise... really!? I don't think it's scary that the issue exists. I think it's scary that in little more than a decade, a "serious, crushing marital issue" turned into an "applaud-able life choice that's just human or natural"...


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## bazz cargo (Mar 14, 2015)

Makes you realise how boring Adam was if Eve had to hold a conversation with a snake.


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## Loveabull (Mar 14, 2015)

Oy that it boils down to if you have steak at home why go out for hamburger? Unless you're vegan then I suppose you have kale at home...


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## Plasticweld (Mar 14, 2015)

bazz cargo said:


> Makes you realise how boring Adam was if Eve had to hold a conversation with a snake.



Bazz this may just be a cynical old guy talking but I have noticed that sometimes women just like snakes better no matter who is at home.


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## dale (Mar 14, 2015)

Plasticweld said:


> Bazz this may just be a cynical old guy talking but I have noticed that sometimes women just like snakes better no matter who is at home.



lol. and on the flip-side, i know some dudes that have a fine-looking, sweet, loyal woman at home; but for some insane reason just can't keep themselves from nailing the skank of the week when the opportunity presents itself.


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## Mistique (Mar 14, 2015)

I find the whole topic and especially judging about it complicated. When I was younger my world was simple and my judgement harsh. I didn't say it out loud, but I felt utter contempt for anyone cheating on their partner. In my head I was like the queen shouting 'off with the head' whenever I heard of someone cheating. I judges others and myself in the same way and I considered myself 'not the type' to cheat. That is untill I got married to a guy I loved, but I wasn't particuarly close with. He wasn't interested in my thoughts and feelings and I didn't mind as somehow I had developed the idea growing up that men and woman simply weren't capable of being close in that way. In my mind you fell in love with a guy, but you shared your thoughts and feelings with your best (girl) friend. Then I met Frank. He was a guy I could be close with the same way I could with a girl. He wanted to know my ever thought, he wanted to talk for hours - and we did - and he cared how I felt. It turned my world up side down, because I honestly didn't think it was possible for a girl and a guy to be close like that. I didn't have sex with him - so in that sense I didn't cheat - but I shared my every thought with him and I fell for him hard. I left my husband for him. I didn't know if things would work out between me and Frank, but I did know that I could never settle for a guy I had no connection with again. I judged myself the same way I did everybody else so for a very long time I hated myself for the choice I had made (to leave my husband for another guy). I still believed I wasn't 'the type' and so for me to have made that choice anyway I had to be a rotten human being. Now my judgement has mellowed. I chose not to cheat on my boyfriend, but I also know that sometimes you make choices in your life that go against what you believe to be right and wrong and so when I hear of someone else who did cheat I try my hardest not to judge and leave them to decide for themselves if this is a choice they can live with or not. Maybe I'm just babbling here, but that's my two cents


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## InstituteMan (Mar 14, 2015)

I suspect adultery is overrated, both in terms of its fun and in terms of its evilness. It's not that stuff doesn't happen, but you don't have to go looking for stuff, either.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Mar 14, 2015)

I'll agree with Plastic here. 

Sure, random, unfortunate events happen to us all. Accidents and tragedy that we can't control. Of course. Random disease, or being the victim of a crime. Things like that happen, yes. But a large portion of our lives are defined by our actions. And what we're discussing is certainly a choice. 

I will agree that spouses being away from each other and under stress can lead to it being easier to seek romantic or physical fulfillment in another person instead. Sometimes that 'stuff' does happen. 

The point I'd like to make is this. 

You chose to get married and make that promise. Breaking it is also a choice. Also, even without mentioning moral beliefs, the negative effects (and the drama) are pretty widespread and generally unpleasant.

I myself believe it's wrong, but I won't get in someone's face about it. I just don't believe in stupid decisions, in any aspect of life.


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## Boofy (Mar 15, 2015)

Eh, I don't think that we as a species are really built for monogamy. We aren't built for a lot of things. We can choose to try because we are conscious beings but I don't think that people who cheat should be judged so harshly by their peers if they fail. I'm no stranger to the hurt that comes with having been cheated on but I choose not to allow it to reign over my life. Sex is just sex, after all. Making love outside of your marriage is the real crime. If you don't love your significant other, you love somebody else, you owe it to the person you made vows with to tell them the truth and leave or to try to make it work.

Personally, I don't see the point in adultery. Some people crave the honeymoon period of a new relationship or the thrill of chasing something they haven't got, or doing something they know they shouldn't, but in the end it all boils down to the same thing. Starting a relationship is easy. Staying in one is hard. We as a society seem to expect instant gratification. We have fast food and instant messaging... hell, you can get a divorce for £300 if you want to. So your marriage doesn't work for a day, a month, a year? The grass isn't greener on the other side. You're going to have these same marital issues with the hot blonde at Top Shop or that guy down the hall who smiles when you collect your mail. What we all need is somebody to live with, for the rest of our lives. When you get married, it is for a reason. You'll forget that reason from time to time but it's your responsibility to find it again. That is what marriage is.

Essentially, I don't think that I am the type to commit adultery but I do understand that it's probably inevitable that many people will. I don't think it defines that person. Heh. 

Ok, unglaze your eyes now folks, I'm done ;3


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## dither (Mar 15, 2015)

Jeez, what a response, i'd almost forgotten this.

Some interesting posts there. I had no idea that it was such a big deal.


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## Schrody (Mar 15, 2015)




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## JustRob (Mar 15, 2015)

Adultery is a whole package of things and the comments posted here seem to wander between them. What are its fundamental components? I'll try to identify them. First there's sex with more than one partner, then failure to keep a person who trusts oneself adequately informed, then failure to maintain a valued relationship. I think the way that people react to adultery is how they react to its individual components, not to the package as a whole. Does every component have to be present for it to be adultery? If just one is present is that enough? I am sitting here in bed next to my angel typing this. To a certain extent she regards even this as detrimental to our relationship. Adultery is just one place in a very big field. In any relationship we may wander around in that field over time but what matters is the cumulative effect, not any specific incident. She'll forgive me as long as I don't type too much more. Maybe sometimes I don't tell her things because doing so would serve no useful purpose. I suspect that she does the same for me. The subject is just too complicated to be summarised. As for sex ...


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## Plasticweld (Mar 15, 2015)

InstituteMan said:


> I suspect adultery is overrated, both in terms of its fun and in terms of its evilness. It's not that stuff doesn't happen, but you don't have to go looking for stuff, either.




Spoken like a true lawyer


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## dither (Mar 15, 2015)

InstituteMan said:


> I suspect adultery is overrated, both in terms of its fun and in terms of its evilness. It's not that stuff doesn't happen, but you don't have to go looking for stuff, either.




I reckon i'd go along with that.


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## escorial (Mar 15, 2015)

i havn't had sex for a while now..went on a dating site and was shocked how easy it was to end up in bed with the middle ages


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## InstituteMan (Mar 15, 2015)

Plasticweld said:


> Spoken like a true lawyer



This is one of those areas where I try not to be too judgmental, lest I experience a karmic boomerang. Plus, I've got no idea what's going on in another person's marriage. I just try to mind myself.


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## dale (Mar 15, 2015)

escorial said:


> i havn't had sex for a while now..went on a dating site and was shocked how easy it was to end up in bed with the middle ages



lol. yeah. i even see advertisements for "adultery dating sites" now. this world has totally lost its moral compass.


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## Pluralized (Mar 15, 2015)

dale said:


> lol. yeah. i even see advertisements for "adultery dating sites" now. this world has totally lost its moral compass.



Dude, that's been the case for a long time. People have been sneaking away and copulating and fornicating and generally drooling on each other in all manner of situations since the advent of the boner.


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## Pluralized (Mar 15, 2015)

dither said:


> It's just a thought.



And a delicious one!

Too bad it'll wreck your life for just a few minutes of excitement. In that way sex/lust is kinda like heroin. Instant gratification, then years trying to repair the damage. Or death by shotgun.


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## dale (Mar 15, 2015)

Pluralized said:


> Dude, that's been the case for a long time. People have been sneaking away and copulating and fornicating and generally drooling on each other in all manner of situations since the advent of the boner.



to be honest, my opinion on it is that getting married over infatuation is a relatively recent notion. people really didn't go out and get married just for love and infatuation until the 20th century. before that? it was more about bloodlines and patriarchal family planning. it's why the adultery and divorce rates are sky high. love and infatuation are fleeting, unlike family and bloodline planning. people seem to have this insane notion nowadays that life is all about their own selfish happiness. but happiness itself is rather hard to hold onto consistently. people marry now thinking that brand new hormonal based passion is supposed to last forever. welp....hate to break the reality down on those fools....but it doesn't. people are making a mistake getting married for those reasons.


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## dither (Mar 15, 2015)

Pluralized said:


> And a delicious one!
> 
> Too bad it'll wreck your life for just a few minutes of excitement. In that way sex/lust is kinda like heroin. Instant gratification, then years trying to repair the damage. Or death by shotgun.



So true.


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## Pluralized (Mar 15, 2015)

dale said:


> to be honest, my opinion on it is that getting married over infatuation is a relatively recent notion. people really didn't go out and get married just for love and infatuation until the 20th century. before that? it was more about bloodlines and patriarchal family planning. it's why the adultery and divorce rates are sky high. love and infatuation are fleeting, unlike family and bloodline planning. people seem to have this insane notion nowadays that life is all about their own selfish happiness. but happiness itself is rather hard to hold onto consistently. people marry now thinking that brand new hormonal based passion is supposed to last forever. welp....hate to break the reality down on those fools....but it doesn't. people are making a mistake getting married for those reasons.




Yeah, and the population is also six or seven times what it was in the 1800s. Lots more folk to get hitched. Also they didn't have virtual imagery, for the most part, and had to generally work from sunup to sundown and produce as many kids as possible to help with the farming. These days everything's about convenience, and marriage is largely inconvenient by design. 

I would disagree that love and infatuation are fleeting -- infatuation, yes. Love is much stronger in my experience, when you know that's what it is...


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## dale (Mar 15, 2015)

Pluralized said:


> These days everything's about convenience, and marriage is largely inconvenient by design.


these days everything is about abstraction and distraction.


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## Pluralized (Mar 15, 2015)

dale said:


> these days everything is about abstraction and distraction.



True, but there are still people getting married because they love each other and actually sticking to monogamy. The stats are what they are, but there will always be a contingent of folk that think marriage makes sense.  

When I was younger I vowed I'd never get married (child of three divorces here) but somehow when I met my wife, it just progressed naturally and getting hitched was the right move. Never cheated on her in fifteen years, either (and opportunities have arisen numerous times). 

Is it adultery if you make out with a dude? Kidding.


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## shadowwalker (Mar 15, 2015)

Having seen the effects of adultery close-up, I have nothing but contempt for those who "stray" (such a quaint word for such treachery). Is it 'only human'? A lot of base behaviors are 'only human' but the vase majority of humans do not allow them to take over and destroy lives. Knowing someone has cheated tells me they are willing to ignore promises and integrity for selfish interests - if they will do that to their partner, why would I want _any _kind of trust-based relationship with them?


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## Kevin (Mar 15, 2015)

One should only marry for money and political alliance... unless you're poor, in which case romantic attachment might suffice, though efforts at marrying up should still be foremost. One might always have dalliances, the houses, or, if one is supplied well enough, a mistress. 

I think what has been lost is the value of discretion. This happened over the last century.


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## Schrody (Mar 15, 2015)

escorial said:


> i havn't had sex for a while now..went on a dating site and was shocked how easy it was to end up in bed with the middle ages



Too much info, Es.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 15, 2015)

I'm sure things must have been simpler way back when our cells simply divided.  I suppose I have never committed adultery on the basis that I've never been married.  I have lived in a couple of what I regarded as committed relationships though (not at the same time I might add).
The first ended when we both went through big changes and our perspectives on life changed.  As partings go, that was very adult and respectful - though still painful.
The second ended when I was banished to sleep in the shed on my own for the heinous crime of working very long hours to keep up with her spending.  It was quite large and comfortable as sheds go (I should know because I paid for it) -  but not the scenario that I had in mind for a relationship.  I did try to resolve things with her but after a few months of pretending to be Lady Chatterley's lover, I decided that enough was enough and I would be going soon.  The relationship was over; I wasn't even sleeping in the house and mutual respect levels were somewhere around sub-zero.  Mind you, I resisted the temptation to  sleep with the garden hoe.
If I had had sex with an old friend two weeks after I actually did, I suppose it wouldn't have been classed as adultery.  I do wish that I had waited but I suppose I was vulnerable and needed some comfort after feeling abused for so long.
What I did was wrong but I justified it by telling myself that my ex-partner treated me more shabbily than a saint would have tolerated.  I blamed myself for that too for not leaving sooner.
I suppose that there are many shades of adultery and that my only ever "offence" would fall into the "severe mitigation" category.
My god, that relationship could be a novel on its own.  It wasn't exactly "War of the Roses" but possibly just as entertaining for an outsider.


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## dither (Mar 15, 2015)

I've waiting for that word to appear Phil, "shades", that is where my thoughts are.


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## Pluralized (Mar 15, 2015)

escorial said:


> i havn't had sex for a while now..went on a dating site and was shocked how easy it was to end up in bed with the middle ages



For any who might be wondering, marriage is not a solution for lack o' intercourse.  Quite the opposite, in fact.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 15, 2015)

Pluralized said:


> For any who might be wondering, marriage is not a solution for lack o' intercourse.  Quite the opposite, in fact.



Rumour has it that "Wedding Cake" is to be re-classified as a contraceptive.


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## dither (Mar 15, 2015)

Phil Istine said:


> Rumour has it that "Wedding Cake" is to be re-classified as a contraceptive.



Well, it works.


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## Kevin (Mar 15, 2015)

> marriage is not a solution for lack o' intercourse. :smile: Quite the opposite, in fact.


 and yet we wonder how things can happen. Bet you never thought your  vows were those of a monk.


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## escorial (Mar 15, 2015)

Schrody said:


> Too much info, Es.



[video]https://youtu.be/KIiUqfxFttM[/video]


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## ppsage (Mar 15, 2015)

Adult and adultery, as words, come from similar sounding but distinct Latin roots, one meaning to grow and the other to corrupt. Adultery can be single or double, depending on how many engagers are married.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 15, 2015)

ppsage said:


> Adult and adultery, as words, come from similar sounding but distinct Latin roots, one meaning to grow and the other to corrupt. Adultery can be single or double, depending on how many engagers are married.



That does make sense when I consider the word "adulterated".


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## MamaStrong (Mar 15, 2015)

I try not to judge those who commit adultery, because it's really not my place. I believe in God and the principal that one day those who sin (all of us) will have to recount all of our sins in order to get into heaven. Someone mentioned that it should be a crime. IMO it is. You're just not taken to the NYC courthouse before a judge and sentenced to a harsh penalty. We'll never know what our penalty will be until the time comes to admit our faults. Of course, this is all just my opinion.

On the other hand: if my husband wasn't happy enough with me, and he felt he needed to go sleep with someone else or any other form of cheating, I would hope he'd divorce me first. Ain't nobody got time for that.


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## Blade (Mar 15, 2015)

MamaStrong said:


> On the other hand: if my husband wasn't happy enough with me, and he felt he needed to go sleep with someone else or any other form of cheating, I would hope he'd divorce me first. Ain't nobody got time for that.



But then it would not be adultery. :cower: The thing is that people go on their merry way without putting their own house in order first.](*,)


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## MamaStrong (Mar 15, 2015)

Blade said:


> But then it would not be adultery. :cower: The thing is that people go on their merry way without putting their own house in order first.](*,)



Oh I know. If he left me first, divorced, it wouldn't be adultery. Which I guess is my point. There is NO reason for Adultery. At all. Not happy, leave. Well, try to work it out first, but sometimes that doesn't work. So leave.


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## dither (Mar 15, 2015)

Mamastrong,
leaving isn't always so straight forward.

If only it were possible to switch off one's libido, or put it on hold for a while. Would make life so much happier i reckon.


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## shadowwalker (Mar 15, 2015)

dither said:


> Mamastrong,
> leaving isn't always so straight forward.



Then keep your 'stuff' at home.


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## Blade (Mar 15, 2015)

MamaStrong said:


> Oh I know. If he left me first, divorced, it wouldn't be adultery. Which I guess is my point. There is NO reason for Adultery. At all. Not happy, leave. Well, try to work it out first, but sometimes that doesn't work. So leave.



:sunny: It is the people that don't see it that way who are the problem.:livid:



dither said:


> Mamastrong,
> leaving isn't always so straight forward.



It will be if I am involved. :ChainGunSmiley:


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## Bruno Spatola (Mar 15, 2015)

I feel adultery is always understandable, but rarely justifiable. My only opinion on it, outside of case-by-case analyses.


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## Blade (Mar 15, 2015)

Bruno Spatola said:


> I feel adultery is always understandable, but rarely justifiable. My only opinion on it, outside of case-by-case analyses.



:indecisiveness:You can think about it from both sides but you can only do either/or.:scratch:


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## Kevin (Mar 15, 2015)

> leaving isn't always so straight forward.


 Kids... the division (or loss) of all of one's assets... after attorney fees, court fees... alimony, palimony, child support.


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## Sonata (Mar 15, 2015)

escorial said:


> [video]https://youtu.be/KIiUqfxFttM[/video]




[video=youtube;KIiUqfxFttM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIiUqfxFttM&amp;feature=player_detailpage[/video]


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## ppsage (Mar 15, 2015)

There are a lot of examples in literature and history of long-term and successful adulteries. In some religious contexts (sibling marriage in ancient Egypt comes to mind) the actual marriage seems to entail adulterous relationships. In these contexts adultery does seem to have a basically aristocratic bent. In class situations where marriage is decidedly more than romantic, where it is often family duty, adultery ends up with a sort of different spin, even if it's still a mortal sin. History has a lot of famous bastards, in these known cases it is generally the father who's adulterous. Apparently when it's the mother, the child's birth circumstances are often kept incognito. I'm assuming that many, many modern adulteries are also, in their own way, successful.


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## shadowwalker (Mar 15, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Kids... the division (or loss) of all of one's assets... after attorney fees, court fees... alimony, palimony, child support.



All good reasons to consider not cheating in the first place, if personal integrity is meaningless.


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## dale (Mar 15, 2015)

adultery makes for good horror and thriller stories. i like stephen king's "secret window". johhny depp plays that role well in the movie.


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## InstituteMan (Mar 15, 2015)

I've known couples who married for reasons other than passion where one or both turned a blind eye to the other's dalliances. Who am I to judge if they're happy? I have a friend who I am about 90% sure goes to swingers clubs with his totally on-board with it wife. Is it adultery if they do it together?

People are free to sort their relationships out themselves. If I don't like how someone else's marriage looks, then I can be glad it's not mine. 

I'm happy with InstituteWoman. That doesn't mean I don't have some libidinous desires to get busy with other women, it just means (for our marriage) that I don't. I'm also pretty sure that if one of us slipped, we could get by it. That works for us. It doesn't have to work for anyone else.


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## shadowwalker (Mar 16, 2015)

There's a difference between an open marriage and adultery. In an open marriage, both partners _understand and agree_ to having other partners, under various circumstances. An adulterous affair means one is hiding things from the other, breaking the agreement they made to be monogamous.


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## ppsage (Mar 16, 2015)

The statutes I've reviewed make no provision for permission and neither do the definitions. It's adultery for sure if the woman is married, usually if the man is, nothing mentioned about same sex adultery. Doesn't matter who knows or agrees.


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## MamaStrong (Mar 16, 2015)

dither said:


> Mamastrong,
> leaving isn't always so straight forward.
> 
> If only it were possible to switch off one's libido, or put it on hold for a while. Would make life so much happier i reckon.




To me it is. The only reason I'd even hesitate would be because of my kids. Even then though, I wouldn't want my kids to have to sit there and be a part of an unhappy marriage. Because that's essentially what adultery is steaming from...and unhappy marriage.


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## Kevin (Mar 16, 2015)

> breaking the agreement they made to be monogamous.


 yes, of course... and if the other partner changes the assumed(?) agreement first, regarding presumed monogamous 'relations' by no longer wishing to participate?


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## MamaStrong (Mar 16, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Kids... the division (or loss) of all of one's assets... after attorney fees, court fees... alimony, palimony, child support.



These are all reasons why I wouldn't commit the act. Kids alone would stop me from even looking at another man, no matter how attractive he may be. I also come from a broken home and would never subject my kids to such unneeded mess. They deserve better, and so do I. My husband and I both made a personal vow to each other that we would work through anything...except cheating.


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## Pluralized (Mar 16, 2015)

Lust and fulfillment thereof are temporary. Sadness, regret, and the destruction of an otherwise functional relationship can be much longer-lasting.


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## The Green Shield (Mar 16, 2015)

bazz cargo said:


> Makes you realise how boring Adam was if Eve had to hold a conversation with a snake.



Snake: Can you sssssee how odd all thisss isss??

Eve: Hey, you try to hold a conversation and be interested in the only other human being on the planet when all he wants to do is make up names for every single creature that he comes across. BORING!

Snake: I ssssee...

~*~

On topic, it's a sticky subject, to be sure. I will say this much: if my (hypothetical) wife wanted to commit adultery, I'll simply say, 'All right, I'll help you split so you can go be happier with that guy.' Yeah, it'll still sting but if being together is making the both of us miserable, then wouldn't it be better if we both split and went to find our own personal happiness?


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## bazz cargo (Mar 16, 2015)

We make the rules, we break the rules. 

What is the atomic weight of love? Have we found the justice particle? Has anyone split the fairness atom? Is the funny bone x-ray yet to develop?

We are animals, some of us have worked out that a mind can overrule instincts and make us that bit more. Some of us are embracing the roots of our species. The extreme cynical end of the spectrum even use this to their advantage by manipulating others with it. 

I can't watch Jeremy Kyle, it is far too painful, poor apes.


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## shadowwalker (Mar 16, 2015)

ppsage said:


> The statutes I've reviewed make no provision for permission and neither do the definitions. It's adultery for sure if the woman is married, usually if the man is, nothing mentioned about same sex adultery. Doesn't matter who knows or agrees.



Statutes are only of value when it comes to divorce and, with no-fault divorce being pretty much the norm in the States, of little value anyway. If the case arrives where they need to resort to statutes, the partnership's in the s***hole anyway.



Kevin said:


> yes, of course... and if the other partner changes the assumed(?) agreement first, regarding presumed monogamous 'relations' by no longer wishing to participate?



If one partner wants to change the agreement, it's a whole new ballgame. The whole idea is that people made a commitment, a promise, to each other (regardless of the terms of that promise) and they need to abide by that. If circumstances change, then the person wanting to change the agreement needs to own up to it, and either work out a new agreement, live with the old, or leave.


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## Riptide (Mar 16, 2015)

So here I was going to diligently read every single comment, but then time got in the way and I didn't. It's already an over eaten, chewed and spit out topic, but in my opinion, I wouldn't ever do it in a million years. I've seen countless relationships end because some one is cheating and it hasn't even physically ended and I don't know if it ever will end.

I think it sets up bad habits. If you do it once what is to say you wont do it again? How can you build trust in a relationship built on lies? I mean, really. In my opinion, you can leave the guy, or girl, first, before going around and sleeping with everyone


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## dale (Mar 16, 2015)

bazz cargo said:


> We make the rules, we break the rules.
> 
> What is the atomic weight of love? Have we found the justice particle? Has anyone split the fairness atom? Is the funny bone x-ray yet to develop?
> 
> ...



i don't agree with the "animal instinct" argument as an excuse. because if you use the animal instinct argument
as a justification for adultery, then a person's 1st animal instinct reaction to the adultery very well may be one of
bloodlust and murder. so if you're gonna justify adultery with animal instinct, then you'd also have to justify the
murder of the adulterous couple by the same token.


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## JamesR (Mar 25, 2015)

I've got mixed feelings about this issue. One, I really don't believe that sexual monogamy is biologically natural to human beings. It seems more so to be a manmade social convention imposed on the West and her colonies by legal practicality and the Judeo-Christian religious tradition. The Enlightenment further reinforced this with its concept of the "soulmate" and love as infatuation and the like. By that same token, neither is the monasticism I idealize so much biologically natural either, or a host of other things we do to ourselves. Humans don't need to be enslaved to nature. That's what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. With that said, while I find adultery *understandable* due to its biological undertone, I can never find it acceptable. First and foremost, in cases where children are involved, it often destroys families. And I believe children deserve a steady, loving, and healthy family. I've seen firsthand the harm that divorce does to children and it isn't good. In fact, I have very little respect for such adults who cause divorce by cheating or divorce over trivial things. The world doesn't just revolve around you any longer; you have responsibility to your children. Accept it. The second reason, and this goes whether or not children are involved, is that it emotionally abuses a person. It steals their heart so to speak. When you make a promise to someone, which seems to be what marriage and relationships mean, you should have the dignity to uphold that promise. Don't lie and tarnish it by adultery. Either bear it or completely renounce it. And if you don't like it, then you should not have put yourself there in the first place. 

Personally I'm an aromantic. I have literally no emotional desire for a relationship or partner. I think it partially has to due with some of my mommy-issues and mental conditions which run in the family. But regardless, I know that due to my "carnal" weakness, I would not be able to do monogamy. Therefore, I try to avoid marriage altogether. At least this way, no one will ever end up hurt and I won't ever commit adultery. Does it sting submitting to a life of ever virginity? Of course. But you get used to it.


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## Pidgeon84 (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm with Boofy on this one. I think we're putting too much weight on to sex. I'm not saying everyone should just go around and sleep with everyone else, but you should at least be able to discuss an open relationship with your partner with out any harsh judgements being made. We're human, we've evolved in a way that we want to get jiggy with every other person we look at. If my partner sleeps with someone else, but is upfront with me about it, I'm OK. I think this is an issue where we've really circumvented human nature for reasons I'm not sure of. 

Anyways, I guess what I'm saying is sex doesn't have to be an end all, be all thing. You can make it whatever you want. If an open relationship is something you and your partner decide against and you still go outside that, that's obviously not good. I don't think it's worthy of a stoning, but it's definitely not good.


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## LeeC (Mar 25, 2015)

I don't mean to be too sterile about all this, but it seems to me everyone is speaking from their subjective selves, as if that's the primary perspective. Of course any life form sees behavior (among other things) from their own perspective, so I'm not being condemnatory either. As in many life forms "sleep around" ;-) Even so, in our case, not doing so may be an admirable quality to our longer term benefit, reaching beyond our subjective state. 

The bigger picture, employed through such natural order drives, is the continuance of physical life overall. That is in maintaining some balance in necessary biodiversity so too few species don't bring the house of cards down. The key being varying gene selection to facilitate adaptation to inevitable changes. "Survival of the fittest" doesn't mean favoring brutishness, but rather potential adaptability. 



"It is one of the more striking generalizations of biochemistry - which surprisingly is hardly ever mentioned in the biochemical textbooks - that the twenty amino acids and the four bases, are, with minor reservations, the same throughout Nature."  ~  Francis Crick


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## shadowwalker (Mar 25, 2015)

For me, it's not about one person "straying", or even having sex with someone else. The issue is _trust_. Wh'd want to live with a liar and a cheat? Who'd want their kids to have that as a role model? I find out someone cheated on their partner, and even though they could be the nicest person in all other respects, I'm not going to trust them further than I can throw a bull by the horns.


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## denmark423 (Apr 15, 2015)

Someone should write a book about adultery. I believe many will not be interested to read that book, but it will be helpful to couples especially family.


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## dither (Apr 15, 2015)

I totally agree 423.
Fifty shades i would suggest as there is no black and/or white here imho.


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## am_hammy (Apr 15, 2015)

From what I've seen from my friends and from people much closer to me, usually adultery or cheating of any kind results from someone being unhappy. Whether it's legitimate unhappiness in the current relationship because of the other person or there's deeply rooted issues in the actual person who is cheating.

If you're committed to someone, and you feel an urge, you need to communicate with your partner. Otherwise the issue won't ever be resolved or prevented.

If someone wants to go around like that, they might as well just break it off with the person. Of course it's never that simple is it? There is always a reason or an excuse as to why someone doesn't want to leave or still wants to spin a web of lies, until they are so tangled that it chokes everyone around them.

It's unfortunate in many cases that a subject like this is so subjective. Even though there is a moral standard surrounding it, people choose to interpret that how they wish.

It's sad really. As someone who personally watched their own father cheat in his marriage, I know what it can do. It's also unfortunate I knew why, and that reason was petty and shallow. That's only one particular case though.

In the end we all take a risk with our hearts and where we put them. Getting right down to the point, if two people are in a commitment with one another, communicate and be honest. Honesty might hurt, but it makes a world of difference in the end and can save rather than destroy.


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## dale (Apr 15, 2015)

denmark423 said:


> Someone should write a book about adultery. I believe many will not be interested to read that book



lol. is that a joke? i can't tell.


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## InstituteMan (Apr 15, 2015)

am_hammy said:


> If you're committed to someone, and you feel an urge, you need to communicate with your partner. Otherwise the issue won't ever be resolved or prevented.



I dunno, hammy. I've been married a couple of decades now. I've felt lots of urges, few of which I've communicated to InstituteWoman. I'm quite confident she has, too. I guess I don't see them as issues to be resolved or prevented.

Sorry about out your parents' situation. The worst is when the kids get drug into stuff like that.


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## am_hammy (Apr 15, 2015)

InstituteMan said:


> I dunno, hammy. I've been married a couple of decades now. I've felt lots of urges, few of which I've communicated to InstituteWoman. I'm quite confident she has, too. I guess I don't see them as issues to be resolved or prevented.



Well, I meant more if the actual act was going to occur. Like you said in a previous post, you're going to have urges. It's when they start to become tangible. People who are together notice when patterns change. It's never wise to talk about every single thing in that fashion. It can only bring up awkward conflict. If you're actually starting to act on them, even in the most "harmless" of forms I think it should be spoken about.



> Sorry about out your parents' situation. The worst is when the kids get drug into stuff like that.



Thank you. It would have been worse if I was older and it was happening. There are instances where I remember things from childhood that make sense now, but I'm glad I found out later. I also was finally able to hear both sides. My father never had a filter.

Ultimately I've gathered what I've needed to from the situation and it's made my struggle with their divorce when I was younger much more bearable if that makes sense.


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## LeeC (Apr 16, 2015)

As just another animal life form subject to the natural order, it's to be expected there are going to be side attractions along the way, some mutual. The point to me is having a partnership with shared trust, and real consideration for each other's feelings. I've had a few opportunities along the way, but each time I've thought, no way am I gonna mess up what I've got. All the more having an early marriage under my belt where I found my trust misplaced. Not to mention that these last forty years of my second marriage seem to have met both our needs. Now beyond all that, we fight like dogs and cats, enjoying every minute of it.


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## Sforza (Apr 21, 2015)

As much of a crime as nudity.


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## musichal (Apr 22, 2015)

I like Don Henley's line "when you get down to the heart of the matter, I think it's about forgiveness even if you don't love me anymore," and Jesus's challenge "let him who is without sin cast the first stone."  Points to ponder, especially for the more judgmental of us.


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## midnightpoet (Apr 22, 2015)

I remember when I first heard the term "grass widow" to describe a divorced woman.  My brother married one in the 1950's and it was a family scandal at the time.  She had a child, a troubled one who eventually went to prison; my brother never really could reach him.  Still, they stayed together until her death and he never even thought about straying.  When trust is broken, it hardly ever heals and there are always consequences.


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## LeeC (Apr 22, 2015)

To put all this in stark terms, species vary relative to monogamy traits, and as liminal threads in Mother Nature's web-of-life, where evolution works towards preparing species for changing conditions, different behaviors creep into individuals of any species. 


Free to make my own potentially ill-formed decisions, I've formed the opinion that longer term well-being, where other compatibility issues aren't a serious problem, necessitates recognizing which head is making decisions ;-)


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## midnightpoet (Apr 22, 2015)

"Your cheatin' heart will make you weep..."

Hank Williams


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## dither (May 14, 2015)

I'm sorry guys, no offence intended , but there has to be some leeway here. 

Extenuating circumstances.


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## Foxee (May 14, 2015)

Just to interject a lighter note my young son just told me the other day that he could remember five of the ten commandments off the top of his head. So he reeled them off for me:

1. Don't lie
2. Don't steal
3. Don't cheat
4. Don't murder
5. Don't adult

At least that last one is fairly easy.


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## dither (May 14, 2015)

Foxee said:


> Just to interject a lighter note my young son just told me the other day that he could remember five of the ten commandments off the top of his head. So he reeled them off for me:
> 
> 1. Don't lie
> 2. Don't steal
> ...




Yeah,
i know,
but....................


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## InstituteMan (May 14, 2015)

dither said:


> I'm sorry guys, no offence intended , but there has to be some leeway here.
> 
> Extenuating circumstances.



I guess I'm kind of in the Dan Savage school of thought here. Should one half of a relationship declare a unilateral end to the sexual component of a relationship, I find it hard to judge the party who wanted to continue a sexual relationship for doing what maybe needs to be done in order to stay sane without divorcing and finding a different partner. Sometimes a marriage is actually pretty good other than being sexless, so why throw that away? At the same time, though, a typical adult human being will require some sexual release--if such a person is married to someone who becomes asexual (for whatever reason) that asexuality simply cannot be imposed on the other person, and it's not reasonable to expect someone who isn't asexual to live a life without sex.

I've known relationships where one party doesn't want to continue having sex with a spouse and, therefore, is willing to turn a blind eye to straying, so long as the straying is discrete. If one party to a relationship refuses to continue having sex with a spouse, I just don't see how that person thinks the spouse can be expected to remain celibate.

Which is my long-winded way of saying, yes, there are sometimes extenuating circumstances.


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## Kevin (May 14, 2015)

> so long as... is discrete.


 that is a tough one to believe possible. I tried to hide it but the guilty look on R.P.'s... so I put a glove on to hide that, and it was noticed immediately. Then of course there are the long-term effects of repeated... uh...  anyway, hair growing where it doesn't, and eventual blindness.


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## musichal (May 17, 2015)

Kevin said:


> that is a tough one to believe possible. I tried to hide it but the guilty look on R.P.'s... so I put a glove on to hide that, and it was noticed immediately. Then of course there are the long-term effects of repeated... uh...  anyway, hair growing where it doesn't, and eventual blindness.



Surely, cheating with Rosie doesn't count!

Jackson Browne:

Rosie, you're alright
you wear my ring
when you hold me tight
Rosie, that's my thing
When I turn out the light
I got to hand it to me
Looks like it's me 'n' you again tonight
Rosie


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## dither (May 17, 2015)

I'm amazed by how this old apple jus' keeps on bobbin and one day maybe.


Just maybe. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






Would be some dither huh!


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