# Chris Paolini`s Eragon & Eldest



## Mystman13 (Feb 14, 2006)

Hello. When I introduced myself a day ago, dear Dephere told me not to bring up Chris Paolini`s books because of debate. I love Eragon and Eldest, and want to get down to the bottom of this.

Sorry, I just realized I put this in recommended reading. Well I recommend Eragon & Eldest to all, but I want to know the problem with them.:-k :book:


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## jk7070436 (Feb 14, 2006)

Well... everyone is subject to their opinion, and I don't want to be labeled as some Paolini hater because I'm not. Anyways, lots of people think that his work is very cliche and predictable, borrows a lot from other writers, and has shallow characters, as well as forced, unrealistic dialogue. Let's look at Harry Potter. The characters have traits, little things about them that differentiate them from others. In the Inheritance Trilogy, however, many of the characters lack... well... character. They lack substance. Sure, the main character, Eragon, can be described, but the problem with him is that he's too good. Paolini fell into a trap; he overpowered Eragon, thus making all obstacles put before him very, very... well... they're not really obstacles anymore if he can blow them away with a little word or something. The object of the writer, in my opinion, is to put their characters in the worst situations ever, and have them struggle as they come out of that pit. Paolini made such a vast difference in the scale of the strengths of the characters that he does NOT put his character in the worst situation.

Well... Like I said earlier, I'm NOT a Paolini hater, and I thought his books were okay compared to lots of other books out there that 'somehow' got published. Hope I helped.


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## Mystman13 (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks! Yeah, I can see people thinking that a lot. Although there is death in the book, but Eragon does seem invinsible sometimes.


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## RoseStemThorns_AraNorren (Feb 15, 2006)

jk7070 I concur. I am not a Paoloni hater either, but his work shows a lack of creativity, and definitely a lack of higher thinking. It was solely intended for readers of the age 9-14 and I hate that. It also had a incredible predictable plot that was basically peaces of others books. He has been hailed JUST BECAUSE HE WROTE A BOOK, by my standards, his work is bland. Wow, dragons, where have we seen them? I am personally getting sick of dragons... Maybe I've just read to much McCafferey, but seriously, can we get a book about griffins or chupacabra or something... What is the plural of chupacabra anyway... Chupacabras? Chupacabri? Los el chupocaberos? Anyways... Summary: Not a hater of him, but work is unoriginal, not a recommended read. Reed something original... How about McCaffery or Orson Scott Card.


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## CZ (Feb 15, 2006)

Mystman13 said:
			
		

> Eragon & Eldest to all, but I want to know the problem with them. Why do people need to make big deals out of terrific books such as Harry Potter???



One person's problem doesn't matter to another person.  Another person's "terrific book" is hated by somebody else.  There is no defining word, only opinion.

That being said, 1) Predictable plot 2) Magic system draws heavily from Ursula LeGuin's Earthsea 3) 2-dimensional characters 4) The writing is unpolished

To clarify 4): I noticed that, especially in Eldest, he'd try to advance the plot through dialogue and had a formula that was starting to become predictable.

"So.. X?"
"Yes, X"

Questions stating the obvious, then an answer stating the by-now very obvious.

"Are we one again?"
"We are one."  (Eldest, pg. 452)

"You are adamant on this?"  <-- note the poor phrasing
"Aye."  (Eldest, pg. 444)

(Well, what else are you going to say?  "Gee no, now that you've questioned me, I'm not adamant about this issue anymore!"?)

The "romance" between Arya and Eragon was rather stilted.  It could have used a lot more fleshing out, as could Arya's character.  I felt the book in general jumped around a lot without segues.  A good example of what I *like* to see is that puzzle Eragon finally completed near the end of the book.  Yet, the book tended to have quite a bit of what I felt was "fluff," adding superficial flavor to the writing, yet rarely following through like the puzzle did.  What I mean is: you see so much introduced randomly throughout the book, like the gods, vegetarianism, yet these issues are rapidly raised and then just as rapidly dealt with... once you read about them they might as well be over.  No real conflict, no real thought... you can skim that stuff and still easily get the gist of the plot because there don't seem to be many viable subplots to concentrate on, so I found myself just kind of skimming over a lot of the bulk of the book because I knew it didn't matter if I read deeply.  On the other hand, if I was reading somebody like George R. R. Martin, I know I'd have to read deeply because he scatters information throughout the chapters that actually *matter* later in the book, add detail to the plot, and create subplots.

As for the positives... I enjoyed Roran's journey, and felt the book finally started to shift into gear in the last 100 pages.  I think if he tries, he could make Book 3 a good read... some of Book 2 was decent, and Book 1 had some promise.  I won't say I hate the series nor do I love it; it's rather like drinking semi-flat soda.  You know it'd be better carbonated, but it's not bad enough to gag on and throw out.


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## Stiltspear (Feb 16, 2006)

I started the series when I was 13, but being quite widely read I quickly became frustrated with the use of every fantasy cliche ever created, and the poor writing didn't impress me either... and that was just after 20 pages.

I can see how it may appeal to younger readers who have not read or explored the genre so well before, but I really don't know how anyone could sing it's praises. 

And by the way there's such a thing as opinion and personal taste. There's nothing 'to get down to the bottom' of, it just so happens that some people don't like Harry Potter or don't like certain books and *gasp* that's fine.
Yes, it's hypocritical of me to then attack your personal choice, but you did ask for it after all. And your post was so very thoughtless, naive, and just plain ignorant of any opinions or tastes outside of your little bubble that I felt a tad vindictive...


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## GhostLad (Feb 17, 2006)

Stiltspear said:
			
		

> Yes, it's hypocritical of me to then attack your personal choice, but you did ask for it after all. And your post was so very thoughtless, naive, and just plain ignorant of any opinions or tastes outside of your little bubble that I felt a tad vindictive...


 
Call me a bit slow, but I'm missing who this post was directed at. If it was aimed for CZ, then allow me to speak on her behalf:

First thing in the post, she states that: 


> One person's problem doesn't matter to another person. Another person's "terrific book" is hated by somebody else. There is no defining word, only opinion.


 
Hence, she agrees with you. She was meerly stating her own opinion, and fleshing it out _including_ pointing out what she liked about the book. Nothing vindictive, thoughtless, naive, or just plain ignorant about that.

If you weren't indicating CZ, then I just wasted a minute of my life.


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## Stiltspear (Feb 17, 2006)

....... I was replying to mystman.......  Sorry, I guess I should have made that a bit clearer.


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## GhostLad (Feb 17, 2006)

Stiltspear said:
			
		

> ....... I was replying to mystman....... Sorry, I guess I should have made that a bit clearer.


 
Bah, no worries. I have plenty of time to waste...


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## Mystman13 (Feb 17, 2006)

Thank you... Today I reached about page 150. Eragon`s journey is getting quite bland, but Roran`s story in Carvahall is really keeping my interest. I`m also noticing that Christopher doesn`t handle any character`s qualities very well, even main characters. For all I know, elves, humans and dwarves could be the same thing seeing that they all talk and act the exact same way. It is hard to remember and visualize Orik as a dwarf, and Arya an elf.


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## Mark Raven (Feb 17, 2006)

I've read Eragon and I'm a little over halfway through Eldest, but it's not a book I would recommend to any of my friends - though a lot of my friends seem to have found out about it on their own, and love it.

I guess the main things I dislike are the writing style itself - as CZ said, it felt unpolished. It also seems to use a lot of fantasy cliches, with very few ideas that are completely original.

Even despite those things, it's still somewhat enjoyable, obviously, or I wouldn't be as far in the series as I am now.


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## Jabatt (Jun 12, 2006)

I've completed Eragon, and just recieved Eldest for my birthday. I personally think that Eragon was really great! Course, it may be that I like a book where almost everything except the imagery was in front of me. Every now and then it's a good thing to read. Something easy, but still of interest. It helps that I love dragons too!


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## Deleted member 14306 (Jun 13, 2006)

Bay-sick.


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## MarkINR (Jun 13, 2006)

Mark Raven said:
			
		

> I guess the main things I dislike are the writing style itself - as CZ said, it felt unpolished. It also seems to use a lot of fantasy cliches, with very few ideas that are completely original.



And all the ideas that are original are dumb.




			
				Mark Raven said:
			
		

> Even despite those things, it's still somewhat enjoyable, obviously, or I wouldn't be as far in the series as I am now.




We call that mindless fluff.


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## Jabatt (Jun 13, 2006)

MarkINR said:
			
		

> We call that mindless fluff.



I'm sorry, but you should really stop doing that. How old are you? And how many multi-million selling books have you got out on the market? Good or not, Christopher Paolini has written two out of three books that hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people love. Some, including myself, enjoy, not worship, his writing. We do, on the other hand, not like it when someone who hasn't been in the same arena as that 15, and now 19, year old kid is in to start mocking his writing that has taken him hundreds of hours working on, without using an extremely helpful tool, such as this website. Good or not, his writings should be remember as, at the minimum, a noble attempt to do something Christopher Paolini enjoys... writing.


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## MarkINR (Jun 13, 2006)

I commend him for his commitment to his craft but nevertheless, I think he's an airhead.


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## Achilles (Jun 13, 2006)

No one has mentioned the striking resemblance between the Inheritance and LOTR.

Ra'zac = Nazgul

Brom = Gandalf

Eragon = Frodo

Galbatorix = Sauron

Even the map of Alageasia resembles Middle Earth. The biggest differences are the prominent use and explanation of magic (which isn't what makes a fantasy novel) and dragons (which are overused in too many other novels).

The names are also pretty bad. Brom sounds like Broom, Eragon sounds like Aragorn, and Galbatorix sounds like a machine-man from the mind of Lewis Carroll.

In spite of this, I'm almost ashamed to say I enjoyed them. Though I'd enjoy probably any fantasy and am unsure why Paolini was able to get his books to sell while many other works of higher quality remain unpublished. I'm especially curious as to why Knopf would publish him.

I guess he deserves kudos for writing a bestseller, which no one on this forum has been able to do.


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## MarkINR (Jun 13, 2006)

Starwars still has tons more similarities.


 Boy lives in small outer rim town with uncle after parents die--longs for adventure

 Boy finds R2-D2/Dragon Egg

 Boy's family killed because he finds it

Boy sets off on adventure with someone who he thought was a cooky old man but was really part of an ancient order of heroes who were overthrown by a disenfranchised member who everyone thought would be their savior.

 Boy meets rugged drifter type with a shadowy past full of outlawery and debauchery--Murtagh/Han Solo

Brom/Obi Wan dies and boy continues training with last and greatest living yet crippled member of the order--Ionoka Tokogira/Yoda

 also Eragon's mother married a rising member of the order but died in child birth, father was evil.

even the details in events, (Brom/Obi and Eragon/luke travelling to the port city and leaving from there illegally...

 Morzan=Darth Vader
 Galbatorix=emperor
 Eragon=Luke
 Murtagh=Han Solo
 Arya=Princess Laia
 Yoda=Ionoka
 Brom=Obi Wan
 Saphira=The Force
 Dragon Riders=Jedi
 Varden/Surda/Dwarves/Elves=The Rebellion/Ewoks



 the list of copied material goes on


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## Achilles (Jun 13, 2006)

Didn't see that one. :roll:


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## BeautifulDisaster (Jun 13, 2006)

Now that many people have pointed the similarities out between LOTR, Star Wars, and Eragon (which was an eye opener to me)... I'm starting to think Paolini's novels aren't so original after all.


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## blademasterzzz (Jun 14, 2006)

One thing I like people to stop is "How many novels have you published?!"

One needs not to be a grand writer, or even a good one, or even a downright abominable one - one just needs to be a good *reader*.

Why I dislike Paolini's books? I'll make it short. 

- Extreme arrogance of Christopher Paolini. 
- His absolute inability to write coherent dialogue or anything resembling good characterisation. 
- A plot that I can sniff from two miles away. 
- And... pretty mucht he fact that it's just a very mediocre read, and somehow thousands of drooling fans are acting as though it was a far better book than War & Peace.


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## Atom (Jun 15, 2006)

Eragon was unoriginal but still an enjoyable read. I stopped reading eldest at about page 200, it's been lying in my room collecting dust for the past year.


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## Tryst (Jun 16, 2006)

Honestly.

I hated Eragon, and never bothered to read Eldest.

These kind of stories are my favorite, but I found it cliche, and stale.


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## K-P (Jun 17, 2006)

Paolini was 15 when he wrote Eragon. So, of course it's going to be a cliched, redundant, crappy story. However, he wrote a hell of a lot better than almost every other teenager, and a hell of a lot better than most adults. Eragon was still a shit book, though. I blame the Paolini's parents, who owned the house that published and marketed the book. I bet they stunted his literary growth.


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## MarkINR (Jun 17, 2006)

The only thing he that made him "better" in anyway was the fact that he had the commitment to write a novel. It's that whole quantity over quality thing.


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## cacafire (Jun 17, 2006)

I never read Eragon. Most likely because it was written by a 15 year-old. I still remember looking at the book and thinking: *RED FLAG*.

I did, however, enjoy Orson Scott Card's book about the russian princess and the bear and... yeah. Good stuff. :thumbl:

I'm one of those strange teenagers who can not relate to, at all, any of the teen books on the market. I began reading Clive Cussler's Serpent at 12 years old, and guess what? I *loved* it!

Thanks for hearing me out,
please don't lynch me,
-Cacafire


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## Samy :] (Aug 9, 2006)

K-P said:
			
		

> Paolini was 15 when he wrote Eragon. So, of course it's going to be a cliched, redundant, crappy story. However, he wrote a hell of a lot better than almost every other teenager, and a hell of a lot better than most adults. Eragon was still a shit book, though. I blame the Paolini's parents, who owned the house that published and marketed the book. I bet they stunted his literary growth.


um. sorry, but I disagree. I know a lot of teen writers my age, and trust me, they write MUCH better than that. Paolini just sucks. End of Story.


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## Banzai (Aug 9, 2006)

I have read both, and whilst I did find them mildly enjoyable, I would have to agree with the comments about Mr Paolini's writing skills and orginality. Thinking back on it, it's like McCaffrey and Tolkien were involved in a car crash and ended up fused as one writer. Admitedly, I would most likely greatly enjoy a McCaffrey-Tolkein collaboration (were it not for the fact that JRR is now dead), but Eragon is not that; is is supposed to be an original work.

Another thing is the writing style. I know I am echoing others, but his characters have no character! Characters are built from conflict, and there is no conflict if your character is practically God and can wish away any obstacle.

All that said, Eldest did pull itself together somewhat for a semi-decent ending, and Eragon had momentary flashes of inspiration, so I am hoping that by the third book, Mr Paolini may have learnt to write. I will read it, just to see if he has.


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## Spherical Time (Aug 15, 2006)

MarkINR said:
			
		

> The only thing he that made him "better" in anyway was the fact that he had the commitment to write a novel. It's that whole quantity over quality thing.


I wrote my first novel and finished it when I was 16.  I didn't have parents that helped me publish it though.



			
				cacafire said:
			
		

> I did, however, enjoy Orson Scott Card's book about the russian princess and the bear and... yeah. Good stuff.


Enchantment.  That was actually quite good, in my opinion.  Very detailed and interesting.

I'm not a fan of the religious implications of it, but I still very much liked it.


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## Finduilas (Aug 20, 2006)

Banzai said:
			
		

> So I am hoping that by the third book, Mr Paolini may have learnt to write. I will read it, just to see if he has.



Nice and blunt! I found his writing verbose and the plot unoriginal with reused ideas. However; I love some of the names he came up with.


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## wowzer77 (Sep 13, 2006)

I didn't like Eragon.  I haven't read Eldest yet, and probably won't for that matter.  Eragon used so many worn out cliches it was almost unbearable!  And it seemed like the boy got way too strong way too fast.  The characters weren't really interesting.  All in all, I think Eragon is very overrated.  They are making movies and games of Eragon, but brilliant works such as Shannara are recieving nothing of the sort.  Also, the book reminded me of a disney movie.  A very very bad disney movie.


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## Shade (Oct 26, 2006)

Sigh, I'm guess I'm the odd man out. I belong to a forum that talks about Eragon and Eldest. CP may have a lot of areas that he needs to learn more, but I still really enjoy his books. Though he borrows a lot from other novels he has had some original ideas that I haven't seen from others. I'll take it I'm the only one lining up on the first day the movie comes out?


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## Quillpen (Oct 27, 2006)

I'd be there with you shade,except for the fact the movie makersmade arya blond ,and saphira gray.I really liked the books(I've read books that are tons better though).I agree with what all of you said*people go wha?* but there is somethinga bit addicting about his books.I can't put my finger on it,but there is something I like in the those books.Don't ask what because I don't know.


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## Shade (Oct 27, 2006)

Saphira is exactly many colours. Should I post the new poster to show you. Or go to Wikipedia and see it for youself. Arya and Eragon's changes have bugged me and a lot of people on the forum where I chatted about the series.


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## TheListenerAndWatcher (Nov 6, 2006)

Well, I did enjoy the Eragon and Eldest books and I knew what was going to happen. But, I did enjoy Rorans part in eldest. it's what kinda like me reading Halo the flood, I only kept reading because they showed the marines and Covenants part, instead of John. But Maybe we'll all get lucky and find out that peter jackson was serectly involved.


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## mashowasho (Dec 21, 2006)

I haven't actually read either (it's the whole "Da Vinci Code" thing again -- i.e. I refuse to read it BECAUSE it's so damn popular)

Anyway, from the one or so pages that I've read of Eragon, and the other comments by people who've read it - I think Eragon/Eldest has that "Harry Potter" factor - pretty generic, parallel plotlines, two-dimensional characters.... but nevertheless fun to read. Well, there must be SOMETHING good about it if so many have read it. Quite a lot good about it, in fact.
A people-pleasing book.


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## A Simple Man (Dec 21, 2006)

All business, all marketing.

Clear enough?


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## Scarecrow (Dec 22, 2006)

mashowasho said:
			
		

> I haven't actually read either (it's the whole "Da Vinci Code" thing again -- i.e. I refuse to read it BECAUSE it's so damn popular)


 
Don't you want to read it to see what the fuss is about? That's the only reason I read the Da Vinci code.


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## wowzer77 (Dec 22, 2006)

Well I thought about it a bit, and I don't know if I'm alone on this one, but it seems like the Eragon and Eldest books got popular because, well, the COVER.  Ok, now I hate Eragon and Eldest, but I remember when Eragon first came out, and I saw the front of the book and thought AWESOME! And the next day like seventeen kids in school had the book and were saying how good it was.  But really what I think is that those kids who bought it, bought it because of the awesome painting on the cover, and weren't actually avid readers of any sort.  Now if Eragon was the FIRST book I ever read, I would probably have loved it! Simply because I wasn't familiar with the Fantasy cliches that are so well established in other books already.  The cover was so good that, regardless of whether the story was good or not, a lot of people were bound to buy it anyways.  I finally read it this september and I was extremely dissapointed.


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## A Simple Man (Dec 22, 2006)

A Simple Man said:
			
		

> All business, all marketing.
> 
> Clear enough?


 
Maybe it wasn't

It is a dumbed down construct deliberately created to ride the existing mass interest.

Cynical enough?


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## safari invasion (Dec 22, 2006)

wowzer77 said:
			
		

> Now if Eragon was the FIRST book I ever read, I would probably have loved it! Simply because I wasn't familiar with the Fantasy cliches that are so well established in other books already.



I think that's a very valid point. Even if it weren't the first book, but just the first fantasy book someone picks up, they may be very inclined to enjoy it, in the same way that I am more inclined to enjoy the first book I read from a particular author, before I become familiar and then usually bored with their writing scheme.


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## Magitek Angel (Dec 22, 2006)

I imagine just about everything imaginable has been said in favour of or against Eragon.

In the end, I foresee Paolini becoming a great writer someday.  He has the talent, he merely has yet to find the right inspiration.  At present I feel he is too deeply rooted in his inexperienced grasp of conventiions and a self-indulgent linguistic command.  I see Eragon as a sort of first experiment along a path toward real achievement.

I suggest checking up on Mr. Paolini in a few years, once he's gotten his inheritance trilogy out of the way and has moved on to bigger and better things.


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## Hodge (Dec 22, 2006)

The kid owns a real forge for making swords and shit. He's not going to move on to bigger and better things. He's going to marry a supermodel who'll divorce him and take half his money, and then he'll retreat further and further into his fantasy land as he spews forth more and more books based in his "epic" _Eragon_ land, and then he'll die utterly alone either from old age or some misguided vigilante rage where he tries to kill a man holding a gun with one of his swords.

And we'll promptly forget about him.


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## lisajane (Dec 24, 2006)

Good for him.


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## MalLowKey (Dec 29, 2006)

Hodge said:
			
		

> and then he'll die utterly alone either from old age or some misguided vigilante rage where he tries to kill a man holding a gun with one of his swords.


 

Is that a reference to Mazes and Monsters? The 80's movie starring Tom Hanks?


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## Hodge (Dec 29, 2006)

No, it was a reference to _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, except that scene was originally _supposed_ to be a cool swordfight, but the guy got sick so they just had Harrison Ford shoot him. And it was gold.


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## MalLowKey (Dec 29, 2006)

Really? I heard that they tried to chorograph a fight scene, after the 20-somethingith take, Harrison Ford was getting tired and ad-libed the whole deal.


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## Hodge (Dec 29, 2006)

That could be right. I don't have a source for what I heard. I always thought the swordfighter guy was sick or hurt, and so they ended up not doing the big, choreographed fight scene.


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## MalLowKey (Dec 29, 2006)

Which had a hilarious end result


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