# Saws



## Otviss (Mar 22, 2021)

There are birds that saw in pears. Yeah. Imagine. Either sawing with  their wings like people? or with their beak, then graciously fly away.  Just sawing in pears with a normal saw probably. But only in the middle.  Tiny tiny tiny saws. They do that and you hear. You actually hear! The  loud but beautiful cries of the pears. Because you never see the  woodpecker do you? Only hear it. 

Birds exist in this way with their wonderful saws. No need to hear,  really. You just know. A thought enters: Kind of sounds like wood. Do  you feel the taste of pear in your mouth? Somewhere in the deep woods it  is possible to feel the singing sorrows of the pears in your soul. Your  heart. The heart... transforms into a pear with true insight. You hear  it. You become. Become a Pear.

A walk in those woods. Yeah, just a walk and you hear the birds start  sawing and you are sure of it, so sure that your heart is a pear! A  fruit is vulnerable just like... A fruit can also become brown. It rots.  As if an important part of your soul contributes to this melody. It's  weeping. The pear in my chest is weeping. I'm not sure I can distinguish  the tears from the juice of fruits? That sweetness, leaking vertically  through this body of mine. It's cold. Your saws makes my pear sob. That  fruity fragrance. That pleasant feeling is falling down. Oh, what an  intense coldness this is. Every heartbeat, like sharp gasps.

When you're drowning your lungs burn, the pain spreads and  intensifies... Until that very moment when you accept death for what it  is. That acceptance turns to liquid and swims away. What a harmony. It  must be harmony itself, really. Harmony in nature. Isn't it terrible to  die? It is, but the recognition has this powerful dominance. No  resistence. Just a like a dance, down a flight of stairs where the steps  turn soft. How easy it must be to take those strides. Deep inside there  is a lack of strength. Giving up so early? Your pear must have been  sawn to its core by now, because I don't see forgivness in those stairs.

When fate suddenly comes, it means no harm.

A sound of nature.


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## -xXx- (Mar 23, 2021)

Otviss said:


> There are birds that saw in pears. Yeah. Imagine. Either sawing with  _*their wings*_ like people? or with _*their beak*_, then graciously fly away.  Just sawing in pears with a normal saw probably. But only in the middle.  Tiny tiny tiny saws. *They* do that and *you* hear. *You* actually hear! The  loud but beautiful cries of the pears. Because *you* never see the  woodpecker do *you*? Only hear *it*.
> 
> Birds exist in this way with _*their*_ wonderful _*saws*_. No need to hear,  really. *You* just know. A thought enters: Kind of sounds like wood. Do * you* feel the taste of pear in _*your mouth*_? Somewhere in the deep woods it  is possible to feel the singing sorrows of the pears in _*your soul*_. _*Your  heart*_. The heart... transforms into a pear with true insight. *You* hear  it. *You* become. Become a Pear.
> 
> ...



ok.
saws as title.
*begin* birds that saw _in_ pears
*final* a sound of nature.
*between* four paragraphs of images, one line before final line.

sort of stream of consciousness.
sort of not.

birds saw pears->pears cry->woodpecker sounds

 (deep woods it  is possible to feel the [singing sorrows of the pears) in your soul.]
heart... transforms into a pear with true insight

The pear in my chest is weeping.
 tears from or the juice of sweet fruits?
Every heartbeat, like sharp gasps.

burn of drowning
liquid acceptance
 swims away
liquid stairs
steps turn soft

 I don't see forgiveness in those  stairs

When *fate* suddenly comes, it means no harm.

ok 2.
there is much to like here.
do you prefer the poetic prose form
or
would a more concise piece be desirable?

ref tags life death nature surreal
append edit 03242021w


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## dannyboy (Mar 23, 2021)

sorry, I've read this several times, but it just isn't working for me, the central idea of pears/birds and saws just doesn't do anything for me as a central motif. I have tried but it just doesn;t resonate. Sorry, I do like the attempt, I just wish emotionally something happened for me.


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## Darkkin (Mar 24, 2021)

An interesting concept...but as a reader this piece was labour intensive and struggles for cohension.  One of the major bones the vultures keep returning to pick at is the fact that doves are physically incapable of sawing. (Nature of the thing itself issue...) They peck and they pick and poke, with their main food sources being seeds, grain, and millet.  Most of the fruit they get is either left out by people or is in the process of decay, the birds themselves are unable to mimick a jagged toothed blade pattern on an oblong fruit.  There is too much incongruence with the description of the sawer (a dove, these bird species are ubiquitious around the world, so this is not a regional misunderstanding) and the actual action to seem plausible.  

Out of curiosity, I googled doves and saws to see what would come up, a dovetail saw was the first hit, but it has nothing to do with the teeth of a bird.  Teeth are a key component to the sawing motion and that simple fact is a compounding ripple that topples the piece.  Birds don't have teeth and any attempt at physically moving their wings in a sawing motion would result in extreme injury maiming the bird. Logically it just does not make sense because there are no workable congruencies between something like the teeth of a saw and a shark where the reader can say teeth work like this so, yes this verb works.  With this it is simple as an improbable verb choice.  Beak serration is not something doves are known for.  Reconsider the main verb or the main noun.  Readers need a touchpoint they resonate with in order to fully immerse in the piece.

I'm struggling to picture the profundity of a pear...its consciousness eludes my, admittedly, questionable reading skills.  Psilocybinesque?

Pronouns and prespective are also an issue. e.g.  You become. Become a pear.  Your saws make my pear scream...(Reading aloud as you go might help with things like this.)  We jump from being the pear to being the being acting on the pear, it can disorient a reader, a little like falling off a merry-go-round.  One falls out of the piece and struggles to get back in.

Consider the nature of nature, its possibilities, but also its basic physics and practicalities.  If you want readers to stay immersed the foundations of work need to be able to support their own weight, which requires a bit of realism based context.  Take a hard look at that opening paragraph and its realism.  This is where the ripples starts, but that is solely my preception of the work.


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## Otviss (Mar 24, 2021)

dannyboy said:


> sorry, I've read this several times, but it just  isn't working for me, the central idea of pears/birds and saws just  doesn't do anything for me as a central motif. I have tried but it just  doesn;t resonate. Sorry, I do like the attempt, I just wish emotionally  something happened for me.



Sorry to hear that! This is the way I would look at it to be able to understand the text better: Read it as imagery rather than meaning. I think words and sentences themselves can form an aesthetic structure rather than a coherent message. So each sentence is an image in a way and the composition and order is just steering you in different directions.


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## -xXx- (Mar 24, 2021)

Otviss said:


> Sorry to hear that! This is the way I would look at it to be able to understand the text better: Read it as imagery rather than meaning. I think words and sentences themselves can form an aesthetic structure rather than a coherent message. So each sentence is an image in a way and the composition and order is just steering you in different directions.



i think the message is quite coherent.
i think the composition steers through order and image.
i think pronoun placement emphasizes both of the above.


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## Otviss (Mar 24, 2021)

First of all, very happy for the long response. Interesting to hear your thoughts. This is a great example of two conventions clashing  Some prefer the comfort of predefined structures and some don't. I like to deal with experimental poetry because I believe we are all capable of both abstraction and further imagination. It can also be a way of starting a discussion 



Darkkin said:


> ...doves are physically incapable of sawing....



 I don't mention doves anywhere so it can be any bird really. As I said to dannyboy, I think if you're used to conventional poetry, it might help to treat what you read as fantastical imagery rather than meaning.



Darkkin said:


> ...moving their wings in a sawing motion would result in extreme injury maiming the bird....



How about holding a saw with their wings? Perhaps in the same way disney characters are drawn. Lots of weird stuff going on in those that animals are not capable of.



Darkkin said:


> I'm struggling to picture the profundity of a pear...its consciousness eludes my, admittedly, questionable reading skills.  Psilocybinesque?



Thanks for your insight!



Darkkin said:


> Consider the nature of nature, its possibilities, but also its basic physics and practicalities.  If you want readers to stay immersed the foundations of work need to be able to support their own weight, which requires a bit of realism based context.  Take a hard look at that opening paragraph and its realism.  This is where the ripples starts.



Well, like with any fiction, it's about immersion isn't it? The fantasy genre seems to have no trouble stretching the boundries of what's possible while providing no realistic explanation. I'd argue the same thing happens here. I think you need to separate meaning vs definition. If you read in a book that, oh I don't know, there are blue bananas with red flesh in vietnam, you buy that fact because it's fiction!


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## -xXx- (Mar 24, 2021)

-xXx- said:


> ok 2.
> there is much to like here.
> do you prefer the *poetic prose form*
> *or*
> would a *more concise* piece be desirable?



*hmmmm*


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## Darkkin (Mar 24, 2021)

Not sure where I got doves from, probably partridge in a pear tree imagery.  That defined my bird.  (Reader error on my part.)  Thusly, meaning and definition are completely intertwined and interchangable...so there is no pulling one from the other and having it function.  _Personal_ meaning is an entirely different kettle of fish.  Not a philosophical debate to get into: Orwell's 2 + 2 = 5, this is what it means to Winston, but is defined as by context A, B, and I...ASD brain that does not process metaphors, which is why I read context and take the words at face value, the very nature of the word itself, (freakazoid microlevel focus, again, my issue), not an abstract concept. 

 There is a paradox between the technical function (and it is the technical aspect that is making it hard) and the imagery.  The words (perspective) are hard to follow, but hey, its a cool picture.  Sandcastle poetry.  A wave hits it and its gone. It swamps a reader, their response is to stop. Solid context lends support when imagery and perspective become confusing.  It is a little bit like a mom placing a bowl of hotdish in front of the kid who has to have each food in its own space.  The kid is overwhelmed, pulls out the pieces they can identify but are still struggling to take a bite, while everyone else is 'Hotdish! Awesome!'  They dig in, leaving no leftovers, while kid X is trying to find a place to start.  It is a hotdish (casserole) type of poem. The piece makes one think.

An example of context from the food befuddled kid:

Saw

 a rasping whisper
against the chords
rings laid down
across years

drought to bloom

a dance in leaves
led by the breeze
played out in a 
symphony written by
cicadas and bees

teeth chew
eyes watch

Context can support the image without defining a definite source, the congruence of the teeth becoming the identity of the subject without saying, 'Hey, these are the teeth on a saw.'  Because teeth chew...is it possible they are teeth of a porcupine or a beaver?  Is saw actually a verb?  Not a noun?  Is the perspective coming from the POV of a deer across the brook? Or is it simply a guy cutting down a tree?  It is mirco POV that plays on the very nature of the word itself.

Perspective is a very intriguing thing, no matter how one views it.


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## Otviss (Mar 24, 2021)

Darkkin said:


> Thusly, meaning and definition are completely intertwined and interchangable...so there is no pulling one from the other and having it function.



That's exactly what abstraction is! Not to mention surrealism, absurdism. You take something from one context and put it in another. Sometimes it serves the same function, sometimes it's a little twisted around. Not sure I agree with ya there.



Darkkin said:


> The words (perspective) are hard to follow, but hey, its a cool picture.  Sandcastle poetry.  A wave hits it and its gone. It swamps a reader, their response is to stop. Solid context lends support when imagery and perspective become confusing.  It is a little bit like a mom placing a bowl of hotdish in front of the kid who has to have each food in its own space.  The kid is overwhelmed, pulls out the pieces they can identify but are still struggling to take a bite, while everyone else is 'Hotdish! Awesome!'  They dig in, leaving no leftovers, while kid X is trying to find a place to start.  It is a hotdish (casserole) type of poem. The piece makes one think.



Well put and thanks! Really appreciate it <3


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## Matchu (Mar 24, 2021)

*A little DELETE and you're all PRO..striding the stage, the most interesting person in the world, almost.  Standing ovation at the end of performance.  Interesting piece.*

There are birds that saw in pears. 

sawing with their wings

 like people

 with their beak, then fly away. sawing in pears with a normal saw 

probably. 

But only in the middle. Tiny tiny tiny saws. They do that and you hear. You hear The loud beautiful crie of the pears. Because you never see the woodpecker

 do you? Only hear it.

Birds exist in this way with their wonderful saws. No need to hear. You know. A thought enters: of sounds like wood. feel the taste of pear in your mouth

 Somewhere in the deep woods it is possible to feel the singing sorrows of the pears in your soul. Your heart. The heart transforms into a pear with true insight. You hear it. You become a Pear.


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## Otviss (Mar 25, 2021)

Matchu said:


> *A little DELETE and you're all PRO..striding the stage, the most interesting person in the world, almost.  Standing ovation at the end of performance.  Interesting piece.*



Mkay! Thanks for your insight--


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