# Ugly



## ned (Jan 12, 2017)

.
First to the bar, last to be served
you only get, what you deserve
when you're ugly.

Unkind in love, you sit on the shelf
better find, somebody else
who's ugly.


_They say that beauty is only skin-deep
well that, 
sounds pretty 
deep, to me_


Considered a fool, your opinion don't count
there's only one thing, that's not in doubt
you're ugly.

You can write the poem, you can sing the song
but you're out on your own, you don't belong

when you're ugly...


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## Firemajic (Jan 13, 2017)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... of course I just dropped a cliché... but still ... you did it first. 
Anyway, this poem makes me sad.


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## Kevin (Jan 13, 2017)

_unkind in love. _- ? They mistreat their loved ones?


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## sas (Jan 13, 2017)

Don't know if intentional, but commas shouldn't be used on second lines of stanzas 1,2 & 3. I was not English major, but believe I'm correct. Hope helpful.


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## jenthepen (Jan 13, 2017)

I'm thinking this is a bit of good old British irony and it made me smile. A poetic soul and a gentle heart could never be considered ugly and the self-deprecating tone is bound to attract a few sympathy hugs.  If it was serious I'm gonna feel really bad now. 8-[

Kevin made a good point - would 'love is unkind' work better?


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## Nellie (Jan 13, 2017)

Firemajic said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... of course I just dropped a cliché... but still ... you did it first.
> Anyway, this poem makes me sad.



Very :sorrow:!!!  In fact so sad, it turns ugly, IMO.


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## Firemajic (Jan 13, 2017)

"Love" can't be "unkind".... No, listen... love can't be unkind, if it is.. it is NOT love.... just saying...


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## ned (Jan 13, 2017)

hello - thank you for reading and commenting.

Yeah, I dropped a cliche - but only for the narrator to question it.
it maybe sad Fire - but possibly wry, I like to think. 
Jen, you know me too well!

commas unacceptable in prose, are part of a poet's tools to emphasize rhythm - 
I could have broken the lines for the same effect -
but never mind the technicalities - how did it read?

Unkind - as in unlucky in love - suffering misfortune/unkindness in matters of love - rather than inflicting bad luck/unkindness on one's lover.
but either way,  it's up to the reader - if that's your only point, I can only think the rest of the poem is fabulously flawless!

cheers
Ned


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## The Fantastical (Jan 13, 2017)

I may be having a slow day, but what exactly were you saying? I am not sure if you meant it as a commentary about the materialistic vanity of the world, a comment of how people judge books by their covers or if you were saying that if you are ugly inside then you are ugly outside?


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## Firemajic (Jan 13, 2017)

Flawless is also in the eye of the beholder... .... sooo, yes....


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## sas (Jan 13, 2017)

Re: comma

I often do not use punctuation in poetry, but when used feel they should be used correctly, even in poems. For the same comma effect, consider use of an em dash or space. I do admit to over loving that em dash & must often delete them, in the finished work.

The poem is confusing to me. Serves me right for all my metaphor stuff. 

The first stanza said to me, anyway, that this person gets drunk (first to the bar...last to be served) which could account for the ugly personality I believe this poem depicts. The person can write poems, sing songs, but becomes ugly with booze.  Hmmmm.  Every poem can have an alternate meaning. To do away with that the reader has to be eliminated. smiles. sas

.


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## clark (Jan 13, 2017)

Unless you subscribe to the bullshit view that anything that flutters your little heart or warrants a moment of your attention or quickens your adrenaline flow is "poetry", why are we wasting time on this bit of fluff?  It's nothing more than a few stacked, home-made aphorisms going nowhere in particular. 

BUT, this is my first visit to this Group.  Maybe you have special guidelines I should know about?  Is this piece offered tongue-in-cheek?  Please let me know.

FOOTNOTE:  Inter-phrasal commas lead to little more than puzzlement, as SAS pointed out.  Olson at his most, creative use, of breath pauses, did not, create, puzzlement.


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## Kevin (Jan 13, 2017)

'We' are free to do with our time as we please as long as we do no harm. We are also encouraged to be helpful.


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## Firemajic (Jan 13, 2017)

ned said:


> .
> First to the bar, last to be served
> you only get, what you deserve
> when you're ugly.
> ...





ned, Here is why this poem made me sad... I was a waitress for awhile.. Your first line, "first to the bar, the last to be served"... I saw how the elderly were not noticed, as if they were invisible ... but if a hot young male or female was in need.... they had all the "help" they could handle... I think our society worships beauty and places a very high value on it. Anyway.... these were my thoughts as I read your poem...


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## ned (Jan 13, 2017)

hello Fanta, thank you for your considered critique -
what am I saying? - hmm...it's got an underlying meaning for me.

taking the poem on a literal level - I hope it highlights a frontier of discrimination.
 - other than V2, substitute the word ugly for black. white, muslim, jew. gay etc to see what I mean.

and practised without guilt or recourse - for there is no appeal to human rights.

"In fact so sad, it turns ugly, IMO" - what do you mean Nellie, and could you give an example?

Flawless is also in the eye of the beholder - (laugh out loud, nearly)
Kevin has a keen eye...

thanks everybody for the feedback - much appreciated
Ned


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## ned (Jan 13, 2017)

hello - other replies have come in, since posting the above,,,

dear Sas - 
re-commas - so, I ask you again, how does it read?
an ambiguity raises its head.
first to the bar, last to be served - yes, can be viewed as a drunken night.
but Fire hit the nail on the head, when she spoke of her experience as a waitress.
thank you Fire.

hello Clark - you're right - "its nothing more than a few stacked, home-made aphorisms going nowhere in particular."
 - like most poetry. I guess - but it's the way you tell 'em!

"Inter-phrasal commas lead to little more than puzzlement" -
really? an extra comma on the pause, throws out the whole line for you?
I'm sure you're built of sterner stuff.

cheers.........Ned


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## Absolem (Jan 13, 2017)

I like te poem a lot. Interesting scheme. I have a poem entitled ugly too


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## The Fantastical (Jan 13, 2017)

ned said:


> hello Fanta, thank you for your considered critique -
> what am I saying? - hmm...it's got an underlying meaning for me.
> 
> taking the poem on a literal level - I hope it highlights a frontier of discrimination.
> ...



An important subject, but I think that it needs a little re-write as none of those things comes through for me, or for others judging from the comments. You need to really hit hard with a subject like this, be bold, don't it in to many metaphors.


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## ned (Jan 14, 2017)

hello - it's a simple tale regarding the trials of an individual 
(I can't see anything too metaphoric) and works OK for me on that level.

If the reader wants to expand that idea to the wider society, then fine.
but it's not vital.
If it concerned somebody from an ethnic, religious or sexual minority - I'm sure the reader
would do that naturally - so, it's not for me to spell it out in this poem. Savvy?

thanks for the input
Ned


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## The Fantastical (Jan 14, 2017)

ned said:


> hello - it's a simple tale regarding the trials of an individual
> (I can't see anything too metaphoric) and works OK for me on that level.
> 
> If the reader wants to expand that idea to the wider society, then fine.
> ...



It is for you to make your meaning clear however. As a reader, I didn't know what your poem was about. Re-reading it again, even after what I have learned about it, I still don't see the meaning you put into it. That should worry you. A good poem ought to clearly, stunningly, deeply put a point across, whatever that point be.


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## escorial (Jan 15, 2017)

i like poems that make me think about the topic in hand.... i read,then thought who i have defined as ugly...all in all a thought provocking piece and one that was uncomfortable to read and digest....for me a piece that got lost in my own thoughts


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## ned (Jan 15, 2017)

The Fantastical said:


> It is for you to make your meaning clear however. As a reader, I didn't know what your poem was about. Re-reading it again, even after what I have learned about it, I still don't see the meaning you put into it. That should worry you. A good poem ought to clearly, stunningly, deeply put a point across, whatever that point be.



no pressure, then..


honestly Fanta, it's this kind of thinking that imprisons poets. There is no nothing a poet 'should' do, or a good poem 'ought to' be.
'make your meaning clear' Not really, for the most part - leave the telling to prose, for me, the joy of poetry is in the showing. 


Escorial - thanks for the comments - yes, maybe an uncomfortable subject, but it gives the poem an edge, perhaps.
nice to hear the reader's emotional response - good or bad - I appreciate that.


cheers......Ned


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## The Fantastical (Jan 16, 2017)

ned said:


> no pressure, then..
> 
> 
> honestly Fanta, it's this kind of thinking that imprisons poets. There is no nothing a poet 'should' do, or a good poem 'ought to' be.
> ...



Take this poem - 



> Earth hath not anything to show more fair:
> Dull would he be of soul who could pass by
> A sight so touching in its majesty:
> This City now doth, like a garment, wear
> ...



I know exactly what Wordsworth is talking about. He, yet is shows us just an image, a moment in time, he never says what he is speak of, he just shows us. So I am sorry, but clarity isn't "show" as one does in prose, it is the sharing of an image, formed from words like a slowly painted sky, a meaning that one knows in your bones or hums in your soul. This is what GOOD poetry does, it stays, it lingers, its meaning becomes a part of you... Why would anyone NOT want their poetry to sing as this poem does? To have their own words paint so fine an image?


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## aj47 (Jan 16, 2017)

I think it's better to cover a cupcake artistically with icing than to make certain every bit of cake has icing on it.

I believe that's what's metaphorically happening here.  This particular poem doesn't ice your bit of the cupcake but it works for the majority of people who've posted.

There is no pleasing everyone.  Personally, I'd've used line breaks rather than commas. But it ain't my piece, I could read it and make sense of it, and I'm not ned's editor.  I also spent a lot of time judging haiku and really don't want to get critty right now.


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## Bard_Daniel (Jan 20, 2017)

I read this yesterday and then lost my comment on it.

It's simple, I like it and it works. 

Cool.


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