# How can I write the police stop someone from killing someone without deadly force?



## ironpony (Dec 13, 2019)

For my story the protagonist, who is also a cop, wants revenge on the villains for all they have done, and attempts to kill one of them.  However, I want the other police to come in and stop him, but without attempting to kill him with deadly force.

Now, whenever I read about the police stopping someone from killing another person, if a person is in the process of a attempting to kill someone else, be with a knife or a gun for example, the police always seem to shoot and that is where it gets tricky, cause I still want the protagonist to be alive and well after for the rest of the ending I have planned.

So is there a way to write it so that the cops can stop him while he is in the process of trying to commit murder, without deadly force?  One movie that comes to mind is The Dark Knight, where the police try stop someone from killing another person.  It happens at about 1:30 into this scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpf7vJNLVw

But I don't know if I buy the police attempting to wrestle pistol out of the would be killer's hands.  Wouldn't they just realistically shoot him like you hear about in real life?  Or what do you think?


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## luckyscars (Dec 13, 2019)

View attachment 25161


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## MJ Preston (Dec 13, 2019)

ironpony said:


> But I don't know if I buy the police attempting to wrestle pistol out of the would be killer's hands.  Wouldn't they just realistically shoot him like you hear about in real life?  Or what do you think?



Taser.


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## ironpony (Dec 13, 2019)

Oh okay, thanks.  Well after the main character is stopped I want to be able to overpower the officers enough so he can fight them off and get away though.  Would a person be able to do that if they have been tasered?


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## MJ Preston (Dec 13, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, thanks.  Well after the main character is stopped I want to be able to overpower the officers enough so he can fight them off and get away though.  Would a person be able to do that if they have been tasered?



No I doubt it. Taser puts you down.


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## Biro (Dec 13, 2019)

Who would believe such a scene?


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## Foxee (Dec 13, 2019)

Any one of several ways. Have you read about actual shootings that have been stopped various ways? Depending how much damage you're willing for your characters to take, even tackling the shooter is a possibility.
Research what police procedures are. This will give you a framework for what SHOULD happen.
Then break that. Mike Tyson said that everybody has a plan until they get hit in the mouth. Nothing goes smoothly, not even for the police.
Figure out the expected.
Then do the unexpected.
But you'll probably get more out of researching police and live-shooter protocols and case histories than you'll get here.


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## ironpony (Dec 13, 2019)

Biro said:


> Who would believe such a scene?



Oh what can I do to make it more believable then, or what about it seems unbelievable so far?



Foxee said:


> Any one of several ways. Have you read about actual shootings that have been stopped various ways? Depending how much damage you're willing for your characters to take, even tackling the shooter is a possibility.
> Research what police procedures are. This will give you a framework for what SHOULD happen.
> Then break that. Mike Tyson said that everybody has a plan until they get hit in the mouth. Nothing goes smoothly, not even for the police.
> Figure out the expected.
> ...



Yeah I was trying to research it but so far, the cases I have found if someone is trying to murder someone, the cops seem to shoot to stop the person far.  I'm still looking though.


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## Biro (Dec 13, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh what can I do to make it more believable then, or what about it seems unbelievable so far?



Well they are authorised to use lethal force.  This means they have to use their first shot.  That shot is aimed to kill.  They never train to injure.  You have explosives on you then you lose your head simple.

If you had a gun and the villain is threatening your wife or husband or child.  What are you going to do shoot the villain in the foot?  Would your readers believe that you aimed at the villains foot to stop somebody being murdered?

Or possibly the nice policeman didn't like the sight of blood so he put his gun down and hit the naughty man with his truncheon.  'Take that you rotter!'

I haven't a clue what you are writing but seriously no policeman is going to truncheon or taser somebody when he can shoot the person and not run the risk of getting overpowered as you say.

With a taser it has to hit the skin and stick in it.  If you are wearing a thick coat then I don't know what the chances are of that happening.  If I was a cop I would pull the gun out every time.  What would you do?


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## ironpony (Dec 13, 2019)

Oh yeah, I would.   That's what makes writing it so the attempted murderer is subdued alive, but then manages to overpower the police and get away temporarily, tough to write.


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## Firemajic (Dec 13, 2019)

Biro said:


> What would you do?



THAT is the million dollar question.... And it is also the best answer to YOUR question... Isn't figuring all this out, your responsibility as a writer? YOU are the one who needs to decide on a course of action ... then MAKE IT believable... YOU are the writer... it is YOUR job...

Maybe the cop has a short attention span and after pulling his weapon, was distracted by a flittering flock of butterflies, thus allowing the perp the chance to take a flying leap off a tall building, land on a laundry truck, unharmed, and escape into the sunset... YOU decide, but make it believable...


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## ironpony (Dec 13, 2019)

Okay.  Well I could write it so that the police are about to shoot him as he about to commit the murder, but his wife gets in the way to stop the police from doing so.  That way the police can charge the wife and get to him and take him alive without shooting him out of risk of killing the wife, if that sounds better.

I just have to come up with a reason for why his wife is there then, and how she managed to get past the police blockades, etc.


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## J.T. Chris (Dec 13, 2019)

That sounds like a lot of effort for something so simple. Cops wouldn't shoot another cop from their department. I assume they know him?


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## Biro (Dec 13, 2019)

Cop shoots him but bullet is stopped by bullet proof vest.


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## ironpony (Dec 13, 2019)

Yes they know him but I thought that they would likely still shoot if they saw that one of their officers was in the process of trying to murder someone.  Would the superior still give an order to shoot?  I could have it so he gets shot in a bullet proof vest as long as he can still overpower them and get away temporarily after.


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## Shockhawk (Dec 13, 2019)

So I just graduated from the police academy here in August... policemen use less than lethal bean bag rounds in shotguns, tasers, pepper spray which is really called OC spray and a baton called an asp.  Also policemen are only supposed to go one level of force higher then the criminal... so if they resist with just words you can only use words and your hands to subdue but if they use their hands you can use an asp baton, OC spray or taser and if they use something like a bat or knife you can use lethal and if they use lethal you can use lethal and call all your friends to meet you and use lethal too... make sense? 

Basically if you want a super scary bad guy who is using lethal force to be captured you need him to stop using lethal by throwing down his weapons or somehow work out a way he is knocked out while using lethal but I can tell you no police officer who wants to go home and see his/her family again is gonna pull out a taser when being shot at with a lethal weapon... just food for thought concerning believability.


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## ironpony (Dec 14, 2019)

Oh okay. Well if the main character is going to murder someone out of revenge, he would probably use a knife or a gun or something like that.  So if the police came to stop him, they would logically be dealing with a weapon.  I could have it so his wife gets in the way to block them if they are to use lethal rounds.  Or maybe I could write it so they use a taser or a bean bag round, I just want the guy to be able overpower his way out and get away after.


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## Bloggsworth (Dec 14, 2019)

Hey! When's our book going to be finished?


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## J.T. Chris (Dec 14, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Yes they know him but I thought that they would likely still shoot if they saw that one of their officers was in the process of trying to murder someone.  Would the superior still give an order to shoot?  I could have it so he gets shot in a bullet proof vest as long as he can still overpower them and get away temporarily after.



Look at it from their perspective. They know this guy. They've worked with him for years. They've probably been to the softball games of each other's kids, parties, barbecues. They are going to do everything in their power to talk him down and not shoot him. Police have a brother-in-blue code. They are not going to break that code for the life of a rapist. No way. Not in this cowboy culture.


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## KenTR (Dec 14, 2019)

J.T. Chris said:


> Look at it from their perspective. They know this guy. They've worked with him for years. They've probably been to the softball games of each other's kids, parties, barbecues. They are going to do everything in their power to talk him down and not shoot him. Police have a brother-in-blue code. They are not going to break that code for the life of a rapist. No way. Not in this cowboy culture.



This. 

Perhaps there's something the cop doesn't know. Something that stops him dead in his tracks. Just talking him down would be perfunctory. What's going on in your sub-plots? What kind of relationship does he have with the other policemen in your story? 

Ideas *not* to use:

"Don't do it! He's your _son_!"

"You're wife's just been murdered."

"Look out! The Blob is behind you!"

When, on your own, you think something up, you may have to go back and install a new thread into your story. Sucks, but that's how it goes.


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## ironpony (Dec 14, 2019)

Okay thanks.  I would say he has a professional relationship with the others.  However, he did screw up a case earlier which indirectly may have caused the death of another officer, but it's still not positive if it did.  So the superiors are somewhat frustrated with him over that.


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## J.T. Chris (Dec 14, 2019)

Okay, but they're not going to kill him to save the life of a rapist.


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## KenTR (Dec 14, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  I would say he has a professional relationship with the others.  However, he did screw up a case earlier which indirectly may have caused the death of another officer, but it's still not positive if it did.  So the superiors are somewhat frustrated with him over that.



What about a personal relationship? 

If you're dealing with rape and revenge here, it would be a mistake to write it as a police procedural.


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## ironpony (Dec 15, 2019)

Oh okay, why would it be a mistake to write it as a police procedural?  For the police supporting characters, trying stop the revenge from happening, they would still follow procedure though, wouldn't they?


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## Dan Rhys (Dec 20, 2019)

Watch an episode of Live PD, and it is amazing how many times a tasered suspect is unfazed (due to the adrenaline of the situation or the taser being imperfectly applied) and gets away. It is actually astonishing to me how reluctant the police generally are to use deadly force these days. The rare time that a police officer uses it in a questionable way, it gets splashed all over the news, but probably 99.9% of the time, they use much less force than they likely should. They spend more time now trying to talk to a suspect than getting physical with one.


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## ironpony (Dec 21, 2019)

Oh okay, it's just that if the character was in the process of about to stab someone to death, I thought the electroshock from the taser might be risky, cause it might cause him to drive the knife into the person.


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## KenTR (Dec 21, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, why would it be a mistake to write it as a police procedural?  For the police supporting characters, trying stop the revenge from happening, they would still follow procedure though, wouldn't they?



Police procedurals are generally cold and practical, which would tip your subject matter past questionable and more toward offensive, if not irresponsible.


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## ironpony (Dec 22, 2019)

KenTR said:


> Police procedurals are generally cold and practical, which would tip your subject matter past questionable and more toward offensive, if not irresponsible.



Oh okay, how would it tip the subject matter towards offensive and irresponsible exactly?


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## KenTR (Dec 22, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay, how would it tip the subject matter towards offensive and irresponsible exactly?



Dude, if you have to ask this, you shouldn't be writing about serial gang rape.


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## ironpony (Dec 22, 2019)

Well what I mean is, is I thought it would be the opposite and if I tried to bring in more proper police procedure, it give such subject matter more maturity, rather than completely unrealistic procedure.  Couldn't bringing in more proper procedure make it more mature, and less offensive then maybe?


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