# Self-defense for waifs



## Stormcat (Jan 6, 2016)

So I've got a sickly character. She has virtually no self-defense skills, plus she's a ninety-pound weakling with a history of eating disorders, making her more fragile than normal. But she finds herself in a world where she needs to protect herself from thugs, rabble-rousers, and other people who would like to take advantage of such a young lady, especially one who looks like such and obvious target.

She's not going to face up against judo masters or anything, but as she gets recruited as a spy for a pro-democracy organization, she needs to know how to disarm thugs and slip away unseen. Naturally she'll play up the "Harmless little waif" to her advantage, but there will be one or two situations where she needs to fight.

I'm not asking for a big "River Tam" reveal where she's suddenly hyper competent at fighting and can take down an army of Reavers, But she should be able to protect herself from a couple of thugs. If anything, I want to show she's not a perfect fighter, but still wins all the essential battles.

What are some good self-defense techniques a young girl could learn for self-defense? Obviously it'll take years of practice, but she doesn't have years.

I seem to recall a British suffragette who was also a martial arts master, and she ended up teaching other suffragettes her secrets so they could defend themselves. Problem is, I can't remember her name. Edith... something. She seems like a good person to look up, but I can't remember her name.


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## Bishop (Jan 6, 2016)

In these cases, to make it more plausible to the reader, I'd give her a signature weapon. A ring with a tiny needle in it with a paralyzing poison, or a belt with a knife hidden inside. Something that bridges the gap between her size and her opponent, but isn't immediately visible to anyone. With it, she needs to have speed to make up for her strength. You could also give her a deep knowledge of pressure points (I'd do some research on that if you do) and just make it so she knows just where to squeeze to debilitate.


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## Stormcat (Jan 6, 2016)

Bishop said:


> In these cases, to make it more plausible to the reader, I'd give her a signature weapon. A ring with a tiny needle in it with a paralyzing poison, or a belt with a knife hidden inside. Something that bridges the gap between her size and her opponent, but isn't immediately visible to anyone. With it, she needs to have speed to make up for her strength. You could also give her a deep knowledge of pressure points (I'd do some research on that if you do) and just make it so she knows just where to squeeze to debilitate.



I thought pressure points were a myth. I can understand giving her a weapon, but I'm not getting the whole pressure points thing.


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## Sam (Jan 6, 2016)

It doesn't matter how big someone is, they have two major weaknesses: the throat and the eyes. Forget the groin. Every self-defence class teaches women to go for the groin, but it's easily blocked or countered, and if the person you're attacking has any gumption at all, they know that's the first place an undersized attacker will go for. 

Self-defence classes primarily teach people how to use the opponent's size against them. It's a good technique to get your opponent off his feet and give you the opportunity to get away, but it doesn't guarantee that he won't get up and give chase. Self-defence classes aren't about killing someone; they're about surviving. 

To win a battle like the kind you're talking about, you need more than self-defence. You need a discipline: Krav Maga, Filipino Kali, Russian Systema -- all of these are martial arts designed around winning a fight in the least amount of time possible. They're fast, brutal, and their sole purpose is to render an opponent unable to continue fighting. They achieve this by going after key areas: throat, eyes, knees, neck, spine, etcetera. They're about survival, but it's a vastly different kind of survival than self-defence. 

The key thing about all of them is that anyone, of any size, can utilise them.


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## Stormcat (Jan 6, 2016)

Sam said:


> It doesn't matter how big someone is, they have two major weaknesses: the throat and the eyes. Forget the groin. Every self-defence class teaches women to go for the groin, but it's easily blocked or countered, and if the person you're attacking has any gumption at all, they know that's the first place an undersized attacker will go for.
> 
> Self-defence classes primarily teach people how to use the opponent's size against them. It's a good technique to get your opponent off his feet and give you the opportunity to get away, but it doesn't guarantee that he won't get up and give chase. Self-defence classes aren't about killing someone; they're about surviving.
> 
> ...



Any recommendations as to which one is "Most teachable" and can be picked up the fastest?


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## Sam (Jan 6, 2016)

Stormcat said:


> Any recommendations as to which one is "Most teachable" and can be picked up the fastest?



Krav Maga is the easiest to learn. 

It doesn't have any flowing moves that takes years to master. It's all about quickness, brutality, and simple moves.


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## Kevin (Jan 6, 2016)

Really, there's no 'instant learning', not unless you're already immersed in a discipline. And whatever discipline, it has to be full contact, not simulated. I include any of the wrestling (grappling type, judo, ju-jitsu). You have to touch the other person in training, be touched by the other person in training; use your full force, feel their full force...


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## Darkkin (Jan 6, 2016)

Pressure points work very well.  Also consider flexibility and tensile strength.  I'm ninety-eight pounds with a heart condition, but still have an obnoxious endurance level.  Being smaller, people will underestimate you, as there isn't much to fling into a fray.  But they don't take things like speed, coordination, flexibility, and endurance into account.  It is easier to find places to disappear into and to get out of tight places.  Movements become quicker, quieter, more efficient. 


To whit: Rue, my Husky/Eskimo and our neighbor's Mastiff Dozer.  Rue is about 40 lbs., small enough and quick enough to run circles around and directly underneath Dozer, who is 200 lbs.  Rue wears Dozer out in about ten minutes, but is still more than willing to go for a three hour walk afterward.

Break movement down to the absolute basics.  Consider the physics and the physicality of each character's movements, their mindsets as well.  Are they working from the fight or flight standpoint?

And if at all possible, get in touch with fitness and martial art centers in your area.  Observe and get involved.  In things like this, there is a huge difference between reading about something an actually doing it.  Hands on experience can't be feigned and it adds a layer of authenticity.


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## Harper J. Cole (Jan 6, 2016)

Stormcat said:


> I seem to recall a British suffragette who was also a martial arts master, and she ended up teaching other suffragettes her secrets so they could defend themselves. Problem is, I can't remember her name. Edith... something. She seems like a good person to look up, but I can't remember her name.



Googling "Martial arts suffragette" turns up the name Edith Margaret Garrud.

HC


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## Stormcat (Jan 6, 2016)

Kevin said:


> Really, there's no 'instant learning', not unless you're already immersed in a discipline. And whatever discipline, it has to be full contact, not simulated. I include any of the wrestling (grappling type, judo, ju-jitsu). You have to touch the other person in training, be touched by the other person in training; use your full force, feel their full force...



I'm not asking for instant learning, it's just that this character is on a tight schedule so to speak. She doesn't have years to master a discipline, she's got months at best.


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## Stormcat (Jan 6, 2016)

Sam said:


> Krav Maga is the easiest to learn.
> 
> It doesn't have any flowing moves that takes years to master. It's all about quickness, brutality, and simple moves.



Just one problem. My story takes place years before Krav Maga was invented. Next best one?


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## Sam (Jan 6, 2016)

Stormcat said:


> Just one problem. My story takes place years before Krav Maga was invented. Next best one?



What year does it take place?


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## Stormcat (Jan 6, 2016)

Sam said:


> What year does it take place?



No exact year is given, but it's anywhere from 1870 to 1880.


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## Kevin (Jan 6, 2016)

> 1870 to 1880.


 *facepalm*-- how about a concealed stiletto, or a derringer?


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## LeeC (Jan 6, 2016)

The wife took a class some time back. Emphasis was on poking out the eyes, I don't mess with her ;-) 
Relative to any timespan it's always been effective


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## Sam (Jan 6, 2016)

Stormcat said:


> No exact year is given, but it's anywhere from 1870 to 1880.



Well . . . that changes things considerably. 

The only martial arts prevalent in that time period were Asian: jujitsu, karate, and kendo, and all of them are proper martial arts that take years to master, and they aren't all that useful for the type of fighting that I think you're talking about. 

Really, I think your best bet is to have the character use their size to get in close. People underestimate other people of small build and stature. Your character uses that to get close, while remaining seemingly harmless, and then strikes hard and fast. Fingernails raked across the eyes to get the opponent into a defensive posture; fingers shoved hard into the throat to double them over; knee into their nose to put them down.


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## Darkkin (Jan 6, 2016)

Hoops where a big thing during that era.  Whale bones, as well.  Costumes specific to the period will come into play.  A fan with steel ribs at close range, brick in a reticule, a steel supported heel coming down on an in-step...And never underestimate the power of elbows, fingernails, and teeth.  Decide what your character is to wear because there is the matter of skirts and petticoats to consider.  Those will affect range of motion and balance.

Another factor to consider, is the mindset of society at that time.  Men were way more inclined to overlook women as a source of danger.  Women were considered the frailer, weaker sex.  The effect of the sweet and innocent routine would be amplified.

Look into historical novels.  _The Secret History of the Pink Carnation_ series, while set during the Napoleonic Wars, does an excellent job of illustrating situations similar to what you're describing.  Also, _Pride, Prejudice, and Zombies_.  The female leads don't have much time to learn, but they carry their own weight, while still being plausible.


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## Stormcat (Jan 6, 2016)

Darkkin said:


> Hoops where a big thing during that era.  Whale bones, as well.  Costumes specific to the period will come into play.  A fan with steel ribs at close range, brick in a reticule, a steel supported heel coming down on an in-step...And never underestimate the power of elbows, fingernails, and teeth.  Decide what your character is to wear because there is the matter of skirts and petticoats to consider.  Those will affect range of motion and balance.
> 
> Another factor to consider, is the mindset of society at that time.  Men were way more inclined to overlook women as a source of danger.  Women were considered the frailer, weaker sex.  The effect of the sweet and innocent routine would be amplified.
> 
> Look into historical novels.  _The Secret History of the Pink Carnation_ series, while set during the Napoleonic Wars, does an excellent job of illustrating situations similar to what you're describing.  Also, _Pride, Prejudice, and Zombies_.  The female leads don't have much time to learn, but they carry their own weight, while still being plausible.



Three big points:

1. Hoops were actually OUT at that point in history, bustles were in. But the point your trying to make still stands about corsets and metal still applies. I'm thinking about giving my character a steel fan to use as a weapon, but I'd need to research more into how it was used.

2. I know, right? That's the whole reason she was recruited, is because she is sweet, innocent, and tiny.

3. both those books are set in the regency era, NOT the Victorian era. This just gets on my nerves when people lump the former into the latter.


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## Darkkin (Jan 6, 2016)

I did mention the Napoleonic period specifically because of the differences in fashion, the Regency period drawing much more heavily on the classic Greek influence were much less constricting and more natural than Victorian Era (1837 - 1901) fashions, which did include the period when hoops were all the rage (1856 - 1870). 

In both periods, you are still dealing with females in skirts and petticoats.  The basic mechanics of movement would be similar, which is why I mentioned them.  Personally, I love the Georgian and Regency periods.  I grew up reading Heyer.

Gail Carringer is another author to look into.  Her books are set during the late Victorian era, (three different series, set between 1850 and 1890), as are those of Amanda Quick.  Yes, I'm a romance junkie, but the genre authors have a tendency to be spot on with their details.

Another couple factors to consider are location, season and financial means.  Determining your character's costume will influence a lot.  As you've considered the skirted aspect, there is also the other extreme, with gender obscurity.  The old girl in breeches ploy, but hey, it works.  It is easy, especially for those who are small; it doesn't restrict range of motion and adds another layer of protection.  

Hiding in plain sight, while being completely discounted as a threat makes for a very good layer of defense and a good defense is one of the best offenses there is.


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## K.S. Crooks (Jan 9, 2016)

I would suggest Aikido for your character. Aikido techniques consist of entering and turning movements that redirect the momentum of an opponent's attack, and a throw or joint lock that terminates the technique. Aikido is about using your attackers energy against themselves. Watch the videos for a little visual demonstration. [video=youtube;Hz-BueD0h6A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz-BueD0h6A[/video]


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## Sam (Jan 9, 2016)

The problem is that Aikido wasn't pioneered until the 1920s, so it isn't a viable discipline for a story that takes place in the 1800s.


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## Winston (Jan 9, 2016)

Just to piggy-back on Sam's first post:  Weak spots.

I went to the (informal) School of Dirty Fighting.  While the groin is easily defended, the kidneys and knees are not.  Especially if the attacker is large and your main character is smaller.  After an initial "lower hemisphere" blow, an open-handed strike to the back of the neck is great.  Using a blunt object (pipe) is better.  Once the attacker is stunned, THEN an eye gouge or nose smash seals the deal.
Mind you, this isn't Hollywood.  Anyone on the receiving end of the above mentioned "attention" will most likely have some permanent damage.


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## Pallandozi (Oct 15, 2020)

Stormcat said:


> she should be able to protect herself from a couple of thugs



I'd second the suggestion of using a weapon.

Possibly alcohol-based perfume sprayed in the eyes, and in extremis, set alight.


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## indianroads (Oct 20, 2020)

Sam said:


> The problem is that Aikido wasn't pioneered until the  1920s, so it isn't a viable discipline for a story that takes place in  the 1800s.



True, but the principals it's based on has existed since forever. 

I'm  currently working with a young woman that's putting together a course  for DV (domestic violence) victims/survivors. (I'm a 7th degree black  belt in Tae Kwon Do, and also have black belts in Kenpo, Shotokan, and  Hapkido - and I also lived on the street from 13 - 15 years of age.)  There are a lot of techniques available - but the main issue is that  many of the physically abused, have been hurt mentally as well. The  first lesson has to be - you deserve to live because you are a valuable  person. Without that sense of self, they rarely fight back.

So, your waif has to get beyond that. She needs to be ok with hurting someone.

As  far as techniques go, there are a lot that work well for women - by  employing cunning, and the advantages being short, and their ability to  kick and otherwise use their legs. Controlling distance is key... but  you know, I could go on, but perhaps you could give us a specific  situation she gets in and we could reply with workable techniques.


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## MistWolf (Nov 2, 2020)

Stormcat, your character is going to need a tough mindset. When she fights, she's going to have to go all in with no room for for hesitation or quarter. She will need to incapacitate her foe as quickly and efficiently as possible. She needs to be a stone cold killer capable of instant violence of action. Badguys rely heavily on the  fact the average person cannot or will not "flip the switch" instantly and act.

She will need to be always alert. Keeping her head on a swivel, always watching her six and being aware of everything going on around her are necessary to staying alive.

Derringers are at best, a last ditch weapon. They are easy to conceal, but are difficult to shoot and recoil is harsh. The combination of short barrels and low velocity, light weight bullets severely limits their terminal effectiveness. Holding only two shots, derringers are not good fight stoppers.

Arm your character with grit, feminine wiles, a revolver, a good knife and dirty fighting. She can carry other weapons on her person as well, such as a garrote and hat pins.


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