# The Slender Man Massacre Chapter 1



## BWFoster78 (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm cowriting a YA paranormal thriller with my 17 year old niece.  The process so far is a lot of fun, and I'd love some feedback on what we've done so far:

The Slender Man Massacre
Chapter 1
By Brian W. Foster and C.M. Foster
Word Count: 1360

Christy stared into the deep shadows.

The light above the convenience store’s back door flashed its harsh fluorescent glow into surrounding crevices.  A homeless man’s knee twitched.

“I hate this alley,” she said.  “It’s freaking creepy.”

Delgado shined his flashlight into a dumpster and dug out a glass bottle.  With its unnatural color, the flickering bulb overhead made his brown skin seem wrong.  Shadows reflected multiple images of his high and tight haircut onto the litter-strewn ground with each fresh emission.  “I’m with you, but where else can we fill a bag in less than an hour?”

Exhaling through clenched teeth, she sifted through the greasy remains of discarded meals.  The stench of decay assaulted her as she pulled out plastic soda bottles and aluminum beer cans.

“See,” he said.  “I’ve already got twenty.  That’s a buck.”

Christy’s feet lifted off the ground as she reached further into the garbage.  Her glasses slid down, and she used the back of her wrist to push them back into place.  Gagging at the smell, she finally reached the plastic bag she dug toward and found it stuffed with old newspaper.  “This one’s tapped out.  Let’s move to the next.”

She dropped to the ground and stepped over three bums on her way to the back of the porn store.  Chests rising and falling to the tunes of light snores evidenced the only sign of the bodies’ life.  A light overhead hummed and flooded the area with an orange glare.

As she approached the other dumpster, a chill passed through her, and goose bumps rose on her arm.  Sensing something off, she snapped her head back to the mouth of the alley.  Movement at the corner of her eye caught her attention, but, when she focused on the spot, nothing stirred.

“What?” Delgado said.

Christy shook her head.  “It’s nothing.  I thought I saw someone, but there’s no one there.”

A waft of the sickeningly sweet smell of death violated her nose, and she tugged at the neck of her sweatshirt to cover the bottom of her face.  The odor grew worse as she drew near the trash bin.

Delgado wrinkled his face and clamped his nostrils closed.  “What is that?”

His voice came out high and nasally, and she fought the urge to laugh.

“Christy, stay away from that.  It reeks.”

She didn’t answer.

“Christy?”

His footsteps halted ten feet from the dumpster even as she kept going.  Curiosity pushed her forward.  She put her gloved hands on the cold metal lip.

“Seriously, you should…”

She peered inside.

Partially obscured by a Budweiser case and discarded bags of ramen noodles, a cat’s rigid corpse sat frozen in an arched expression of surprise and anger.  The unmarred body stared at her with lifeless eyes.

She grabbed it and held it toward her friend.  “See.  It’s just a stupid cat.  Nothing to—”

The movement again.  Her body jerked, and she dropped the carcass.

Though it wasn’t possible to move her eyes faster to the mouth of the alley, she still saw no one.  It was like she could only catch sight of whatever it was with her peripheral vision.

Delgado jumped too.

“Did you see it this time?” she said.

“See what?”

“I don’t know.”  Christy shook her head.  “Forget about it.  Let’s get this done and move on.”  Turning back toward the trash, she noticed a pair of legs sticking out from the other side of the dumpster.  She froze.

“What is it?” he said.

“Just another bum.”  She shivered.  “He creeped me out.”

 Christy dove back into the trash and threw bottles and cans over her shoulder.  Someone had discarded a cinder block, and, without thinking, she shifted it to get at a plastic bag.  The heavy chunk fell to the bottom.  A thud echoed through the alley.  A bum behind her shouted for them to shut up.

She threw out a few more cans.

“Christy.”

Delgado’s quiet voice barely registered.  She hit the jackpot.  Someone had thrown away a whole case of Modelos.

“Christy!”

“Hold on.  We just scored.”

“I don’t think that bum is sleeping.  He hasn’t moved, even with the racket you made.”

Christy shook her head.  “You are such a wuss.”  She gathered the last of the treasure trove and dumped it in front of Delgado.  “He’s just drunk like all the rest of them.  Why do you think we find so many beer cans?”

He crossed his arms over his chest.  “Seriously.  We should check it out.”

“You mean I should check it out.  Stupid pansy.”  Christy sighed.

As soon as she turned her back to her friend, her confidence evaporated.  He’s right, she thought.  The guy should have woken.  Something’s not right.

Each step came a little slower than the one before as she inched toward the prone figure.  Lock it up, she thought.

Christy felt movement behind her.  Shadows stretched in front of her.  She spun.

“Delgado!  You idiot!  What are you doing?”

“Calm down.  I’m watching your six.”

Probably too scared to stand by himself, she thought.  “It’s just a sleeping bum.”  She marched to the other end of the dumpster and stepped over the legs.

The man lay flat on his back with his arms limp by his side.  A newspaper rested over his face.  His chest appeared wet.

“Gross,” she said.  “He puked.”

“I don’t think that’s vomit.”

Christy bent closer.  The man remained completely still.

She yanked the newspaper away.  His eyes stared lifelessly at her.  She screamed.

* * *

Christy and Delgado waited at the mouth of the alley as the police car approached, lights flashing but without a siren.  They simultaneously groaned when Officer Achifus and his young partner got out of the vehicle.  The older cop rolled his eyes at the sight of them.  

She wanted to laugh every time she saw him, and, despite her being shaken at finding a body, this time proved no exception.  He wore his thinning hair spiked in a manner no one over the age of thirty could pull off.  At least ten years past that mark, it made him look like he was in the throes of a mid-life crisis. 

“Beaners.  Just great, can my night get any worse?” the cop muttered.  “Speaky English?”

“_Sim, eu falar ingles seu bobo!_”

A disdainful expression crossed his face, and he pulled a worn Spanish/English dictionary from his pocket.  “_Hablo_ English?”  He emphasized each syllable and the volume of his voice doubled.  

Christy snorted.  “Your book won’t do you any good.  That was Portuguese.”

“And I don’t even speak Spanish,” Delgado said.  “My parents were born here in Corona.”

Officer Achifus glared at them.  “What are you doing out here at this hour?  Buying drugs?”

“We’re collecting cans to sell for recycling,” she said.

“To get money for drugs, I bet.”

Delgado’s arms tensed.  “To raise money to buy uniforms for our Future Marines of America club.”

The cop shined a flashlight in his face.  “Yeah.  That’s a likely story.”

“Dude, you see us around Corona High all the time.”  Christy tugged on her sweatshirt to make the reflective “NAVY” clearly readable.  “We’re in ROTC.”

He shifted the light to her eyes.  “What’s this all about?  Dispatch said you reported a body.”

Using one hand to shield her eyes from being blinded, she pointed down the alley with the other.  “Behind the far dumpster.  The guy’s dead.”

“Overdramatic teenagers.  He’s probably just drunk.”

“Look man, we did our part and called 911,” she said.  “Check it out or don’t.  I don’t care.”

Officer Achifus motioned for his partner to proceed.

The younger man cautiously walked down the alley with his hand on his holster.  When he got to the bum, he bent over.  After a moment, he yelled, “He’s dead, alright.  We got us a homicide.”
He drew out the long “I” sound in a way that would have sounded more natural in her home state of Texas than in California, and Christy stared at him.  Motion drew her attention back to Officer Achifus.

He drew his gun and pointed it at Delgado before shifting it to her.  “You’re both under arrest.”


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## empresstheresa (Nov 11, 2012)

Let's rewrite the opening up to the point where the dead man is discovered:

......Christie and Delgado searched through the alleys for anything they could find, food, clothing, or something they could sell.  It was disgusting work.  The stench from dumpsters was bad.
......Walking around a dumpster, Christie had to step over a man's legs.  She looked closer. 
.....The man was dead.​


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks for the response.

While I agree that getting to the point quickly has merit, I think that, if you were to do as you suggest, you'd lose a lot of the tone.  Since this is going to be horror, I think that losing that would be a mistake.


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## empresstheresa (Nov 16, 2012)

> I think that, if you were to do as you suggest, you'd lose a lot of the tone.




I agree.  My rewrite was too short, but I was making a point.

Your original makes many references to the dirtiness of what the they were doing, searching through trash.  This is not what the story is about and is redundant.
There are also references to derelicts lying around sleeping.  Comments about their waste of life, how sick they were, and how close to death they were, would contribute the right tone.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 21, 2012)

empresstheresa said:


> I agree. My rewrite was too short, but I was making a point.
> 
> Your original makes many references to the dirtiness of what the they were doing, searching through trash. This is not what the story is about and is redundant.
> There are also references to derelicts lying around sleeping. Comments about their waste of life, how sick they were, and how close to death they were, would contribute the right tone.
> ...



I just don't understand the "why" about your suggestion.

I want to build a creepy/horror tension.  Details like "stench of decay" and "remains" hint at what they're going to find.  If I sped the scene up to get to the body faster, there wouldn't be time for the reader to feel tension about possible danger, which is what the scene is about.

Also, finding the body is only a small part of the significant situation.  The movement at the corner of Christy's eyes is much more important to the plot than the body is.


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## empresstheresa (Nov 21, 2012)

Let's take a look at the list of references to smell:



> 1.   multiple images of his high and tight haircut onto the litter-strewn ground with each fresh emission.
> 
> 2.   Exhaling through clenched teeth,
> 
> ...



That doesn't include many more references to trach, dumpster, or words to that effect.

The reader has to wonder what this is about.  "Pee Wee Herman's big adventure at the landfill"?  :glee:



> I want to build a creepy/horror tension. Details like "stench of decay" and "remains" hint at what they're going to find. If I sped the scene up to get to the body faster, there wouldn't be time for the reader to feel tension about possible danger, which is what the scene is about.



Your error is that you assume the reader will connect the stench of garbage to danger.  He won't.  There's no connection.  When I was a boy I visited the town dump many times.  There was no danger.


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## Jeko (Nov 21, 2012)

> I just don't understand the "why" about your suggestion.



empresstheresa makes a good point, though it is difficult to use for your piece. It is essential that needless details left out, especially for horror, as you cannot let your reader lose interest in your writing.

I do not believe you add too many needless details. In fact, the build-up you have is well crafted, welcome to the reader's eye. It's the use of the tension I find issue with:



> As she approached the other dumpster, a chill passed through her, and goose bumps rose on her arm.



Feels too cliche, both in its substance and presentation. You lost me here - I had the impression you were going for a real chilling effect to this scene. I'm sure, reading what was before this, that you could find a much better way of gently implying danger and the supernatural to your reader.



> Movement at the corner of her eye caught her attention, but, when she focused on the spot, nothing stirred.



Again, too simple. I've moved from being the front-seat passenger of this thrilling tale to a back-seat complainer of the story's new driving style. There is so much you can do to this, to flesh it out in a far more effective way.



> I thought I saw someone, but there’s no one there



Here, the tension is lost because of her abnormal speech pattern. The line doesn't read right, not as it is. It's too blatant to add, or support, the rising fear of change in this scene.



> A waft of the sickeningly sweet smell of death violated her nose



This is one of those 'blegh' sentences, for me at least. I'm being blunt, but quite serious - they make me go 'blegh'. The technique of compacting lexical prowess into one phrase isn't something you'd get marks for if you wrote about the use of it in your English Language essay. Be subtle, BWFoster78. You can do much with a gentle touch.



> His footsteps halted ten feet from the dumpster



Getting out the imaginary tape measure in my head isn't helping me stay focused on the scene at hand, or the tension.

If you want some creepy/horror tension, you'll need to do a lot of wrok with the way you build upon it. You've laid a great foundation for a truly terrifying scene. Use it well! Keep working on this.

(and my story has a dead cat at the start too)

Cadence


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## Jeko (Nov 21, 2012)

> The reader has to wonder what this is about.



It's their job, I think. The characters pick through trash for a living. Works well, if that's right.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 21, 2012)

> Your error is that you assume the reader will connect the stench of garbage to danger. He won't. There's no connection. When I was a boy I visited the town dump many times. There was no danger.



Apparently, you're not picking up on what I'm trying to convey.  You seem to be the only one with this opinion.  Sorry you don't like it.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 21, 2012)

> Feels too cliche, both in its substance and presentation. You lost me here - I had the impression you were going for a real chilling effect to this scene. I'm sure, reading what was before this, that you could find a much better way of gently implying danger and the supernatural to your reader.



You're probably right.  I may be able to convey this better.



> Again, too simple. I've moved from being the front-seat passenger of this thrilling tale to a back-seat complainer of the story's new driving style. There is so much you can do to this, to flesh it out in a far more effective way.



I'll work on it.  I probably need to give more space to the concept anyway since it's the most important takeaway from the scene.



> Here, the tension is lost because of her abnormal speech pattern. The line doesn't read right, not as it is. It's too blatant to add, or support, the rising fear of change in this scene.



Would something like, "I thought I saw..."  She shrugged.  "It's nothing.  Never mind."  work better?



> If you want some creepy/horror tension, you'll need to do a lot of wrok with the way you build upon it. You've laid a great foundation for a truly terrifying scene. Use it well! Keep working on this.



While I want this scene to set a tone, I don't want to overdo it.  At the start of the story, the reader doesn't know or care about the characters, so truly making them scared is going to be difficult.  I really just wanted to introduce that the story is going to be scary by putting them into a creepy situation.  The second scene of the second chapter will increase the tension a notch.  The second scene of the third chapter will feature the first death of a named character, and that's where I want to really lay on the tension.

My question with this first scene is: Is it tense enough to be engaging?  Not, is it as tense as it could be.


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## empresstheresa (Nov 22, 2012)

> My question with this first scene is: Is it tense enough to be engaging? Not, is it as tense as it could be.


Seems like Cadence already answered that question very well in post #7.

As written, there is not and cannot be any tension until the dead man is found.  
There is nothing to indicate that something worth remembering will happen.  Then all of a sudden the dead man is found, and you jump to the next scene.

Maybe if you have one of the derelicts tell them, "There's a dead guy over there", and they slowly creep forward 
down to the end of the alley looking for a body and eventually find him ( instead of just finding garbage )  there would be tension for a short while.  At least the tone is set.


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## Jeko (Nov 22, 2012)

> There is nothing to indicate that something worth remembering will happen. Then all of a sudden the dead man is found, and you jump to the next scene.



I would disagree. I enjoyed BWFoster78's use of lighting especially, to set an off-set mood. And the discovery works as more of surprise, rather than an inevitable conclusion.



> Your error is that you assume the reader will connect the stench of garbage to danger.



I don't connect the stench of garbage to danger. The tension comes from the holistic effect of all the elements BWFoster78 employs.



> Would something like, "I thought I saw..." She shrugged. "It's nothing. Never mind." work better?



Getting there. Usually, when developing dialogue, it gets slowly better and better and better for me. What I think you need to aim for is to really give the reader a window into her thoughts and feelings, a window they want to look closely through. Make them empathise with her. Understand any concern, tap into the tension. 



> Is it tense enough to be engaging? Not, is it as tense as it could be.



if you don't want to pull all yuor creepy punches yet, then good-  that's the sign of someone who knows how to manipulate their plot, and their reader. You'll need some work on how some bits read to make the tension work. With that in place, I would find this scene engaging. At the moment, I find only the very first part of it engaging. Which is still very good.


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## empresstheresa (Nov 22, 2012)

There is a reference to "the other dumpster" so there must be at least two.

Dumpsters are picked up on the back of specially designed trucks.  To get at the dumpsters the "alley" must be at least forty feet wide.  That would make it as wide as a three lane street.


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## isaiah (Nov 25, 2012)

While there are some places the story could be improved, I think it was a good read. I see it as more a rough draft than completed work, which only make sense as you posted it here for critique. Most of the suggestions here I agree with. I would definitely heed Cadence's guidance, as it is quality advice. Overall, however, I would hope the rest of the story gets straight to the "thing in the corner of her eye" and not dwell too long on irrelevant material. As a reader, I am eager to know what part it plays, and why the man was murdered.

Good luck, best wishes.

Isaiah Zakharov


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 29, 2012)

> At the moment, I find only the very first part of it engaging. Which is still very good.



Cadence, 

Thanks for your comments.  I found them helpful.  I obviously have some tweaks to make, but I'm pretty happy with the overall direction.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 29, 2012)

isaiah said:


> While there are some places the story could be improved, I think it was a good read. I see it as more a rough draft than completed work, which only make sense as you posted it here for critique. Most of the suggestions here I agree with. I would definitely heed Cadence's guidance, as it is quality advice. Overall, however, I would hope the rest of the story gets straight to the "thing in the corner of her eye" and not dwell too long on irrelevant material. As a reader, I am eager to know what part it plays, and why the man was murdered.
> 
> Good luck, best wishes.
> 
> Isaiah Zakharov



Isaiah,

Thanks for the comment!

I will, indeed, get straight to the point.  The start of the 2nd chapter addresses the culprit.

Brian


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 29, 2012)

empresstheresa said:


> There is a reference to "the other dumpster" so there must be at least two.
> 
> Dumpsters are picked up on the back of specially designed trucks. To get at the dumpsters the "alley" must be at least forty feet wide. That would make it as wide as a three lane street.



Empresstheresa,

I'm not sure of your point, though I'm getting a very negative vibe from your comments.

The "alley" is the area behind a strip mall in suburban California.  I wouldn't think that either the use of the term "alley" for the area or the concept of a loading area behind a strip mall would be a hard concept to visualize or understand.


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## Kevin (Nov 29, 2012)

empresstheresa said:


> Let's take a look at the list of references to smell:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ".smell of death.." Dumpsters is where we often throw our murder victims out here. There's a body in there. It *don't* smell like trash... also, the trash pick up trucks for the three yard dumpsters...the operators roll the wheeled dumpsters out into the alley (there up against the wall so cars can pass) and then the truck mechanically lifts it overhead on a pair of metal forks, dumps it upside down into the truck, and then slams it back down onto the aspalt. Noisy as he..Then the operator rolls it back up against the wall. Must be a cultural thing, but everyone out here's seen a million trash trucks like that.


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## IanMGSmith (Nov 29, 2012)

Hi Brian,

Congratulations to you and your niece, great start.

I feel you might enhance the "creepy" tone by being slightly less precise about the occupants of the alley and letting readers work out for themselves that the "twitching knee" probably belongs to a "bum".  e.g. "A homeless man’s knee twitched." might be "A knee twitched against the overturned bin and it rocked slightly against the kerb."

For "creepy" I would (personally) be more influenced by a slightly less confident observer. “I hate this alley,” she said.  “It’s freaking creepy.” sounds annoyed while “I don't like this alley,” she said.  “It feels a bit creepy.” sounds a bit nervous.

Lastly, a  minor tweak on continuity of subject: 

 “It’s nothing.  I thought I saw *someone*, but there’s *no one *there.” doesn't tie up with “Did you see* it* this time?” she said. 

Best wishes to you and your niece, great team. 

Ian


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## patskywriter (Nov 29, 2012)

I felt that this was a good start. I rather enjoyed the tension as it built and wondered what was going to happen next.

But I did have a couple of logistical issues: The two characters are apparently used to going through dumpsters, so shouldn't they be (more or less) accustomed to the odors? I would rather think that they'd be aware of the odors, and that the smell wouldn't be bothering them until that "smell of death" hits their noses. But I wouldn't refer to it as that. Because discovering a dead body is a first for them, they probably shouldn't be able to identify the odor as the smell of death. They'd know that the odor was something different, but they wouldn't be certain, right? The odor should cause the girl's apprehension and her reaction to it should be exactly the way you described it. 

Now, here's another thing: The characters notice that the man's clothing is "wet." I don't think that decomposition would kick in that soon—so the strong odor shouldn't actually be noticeable at that point. I'd think that the guy's blood would be dry by the time his body starts decomposing—but then, I might be wrong. I'm no forensics expert, LOL.  

Be careful when dabbling in foreign languages. "Falar" is the infinitive ("to speak"). "I speak" is "Eu falo" or just "Falo." When the cop reads from his phrase book, he wouldn't have said, "Habl*o* inglés" (not "English"). The book would have said, "Habl*a* usted inglés" (the polite form). And "seu" means "your," so "your clown" ("seu bobo") doesn't quite make sense.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 30, 2012)

> I feel you might enhance the "creepy" tone by being slightly less precise about the occupants of the alley and letting readers work out for themselves that the "twitching knee" probably belongs to a "bum". e.g. "A homeless man’s knee twitched." might be "A knee twitched against the overturned bin and it rocked slightly against the kerb."



Interesting suggestion.  Thanks!



> For "creepy" I would (personally) be more influenced by a slightly less confident observer. “I hate this alley,” she said. “It’s freaking creepy.” sounds annoyed while “I don't like this alley,” she said. “It feels a bit creepy.” sounds a bit nervous.



Another great idea.



> “It’s nothing. I thought I saw *someone*, but there’s *no one *there.” doesn't tie up with “Did you see* it* this time?” she said.



Good point.  I'll fix.



> Congratulations to you and your niece, great start.



Thanks.  I'm having a lot of fun with this project.  The funny thing is that this will probably be more commercially viable than the fantasy novel I've spent years working on.


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## BWFoster78 (Nov 30, 2012)

> I felt that this was a good start. I rather enjoyed the tension as it built and wondered what was going to happen next.



Thanks!  That's good to hear.



> The two characters are apparently used to going through dumpsters, so shouldn't they be (more or less) accustomed to the odors? I would rather think that they'd be aware of the odors, and that the smell wouldn't be bothering them until that "smell of death" hits their noses.



May be a case of truth being stranger than fiction.  My niece and her friend really do this (not with the dead body), and she feels that I nailed it.  

Speaking of which, I was thinking of adding "Based on True Events" to the title.  My niece and her friends do dumpster dive like this.  In the second chapter, they have lunch.  They really do have lunch.  



> But I wouldn't refer to it as that. Because discovering a dead body is a first for them, they probably shouldn't be able to identify the odor as the smell of death.



I'm not sure I agree with this.  I'm well aquainted with the smell from dead animals, rats in the wall, or what have you, though I've never discovered a dead body.



> Now, here's another thing: The characters notice that the man's clothing is "wet." I don't think that decomposition would kick in that soon—so the strong odor shouldn't actually be noticeable at that point. I'd think that the guy's blood would be dry by the time his body starts decomposing—but then, I might be wrong.



I was going for the smell coming from the cat.



> Be careful when dabbling in foreign languages. "Falar" is the infinitive ("to speak"). "I speak" is "Eu falo" or just "Falo." When the cop reads from his phrase book, he wouldn't have said, "Habl*o* inglés" (not "English"). The book would have said, "Habl*a* usted inglés" (the polite form). And "seu" means "your," so "your clown" ("seu bobo") doesn't quite make sense.



The Portuguese came directly from my niece.  She speaks it fluently, so I'm assuming she knows what she's doing.  Perhaps any "inaccuracies" derive from colloquial forms of the words?  Teenagers are apt to subvert language to their own uses.

I'm trying to portray the cop as a buffoon.  I would think that a cop in a heavily Hispanic area would be able to say Hablo ingles without referring to a dictionary, but I think the hyperbole works for comedic effect and to portray him the way that I want.

I don't seem to have taken any of your thoughts to heart.  I apologize.

I do appreciate the comments, though.


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## empresstheresa (Dec 1, 2012)

> Empresstheresa,
> 
> I'm not sure of your point, though I'm getting a very negative vibe from your comments.
> 
> The "alley" is the area behind a strip mall in suburban California. I wouldn't think that either the use of the term "alley" for the area or the concept of a loading area behind a strip mall would be a hard concept to visualize or understand.



Well that's interesting.  
I've had people criticize me, claiming I'm offended by "suggestions".  The pot calling the kettle black.

You put a porn shop in a strip mall?  :cookie:  Don't you think the other businesses in the mall would complain about that?
Porn shops are in some secondary street somewhere in the older sections of the middle of a large city.  I know.  I visit them all.


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## Jeko (Dec 1, 2012)

empresstheresa - I would say that the fact BWFoster78 is writing a paranormal thrillers mean he can mess up the world in whatever way he wants. The slightest weird things, such as having a porn shop in a strip mall, would do wonders for forshadowing the weirdness that is possibly to come.

I was thinking, BWFoster78, that you might do well to look into E E Richardson's work. She writes YA paranormal horror stories of quite a high calibre, and she conveys tension very well.


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## Kevin (Dec 1, 2012)

You should come out. You could spend weeks visiting all the shops in all the hundreds(thousands?) of strip malls. You talk about downtown..which one? We hardly even use that term. There are so many overlaps of cities that it's one big metropolis with many, covering an area of thirty by thirty(miles).


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## empresstheresa (Dec 1, 2012)

> empresstheresa - I would say that the fact BWFoster78 is writing a paranormal thrillers mean he can mess up the world in whatever way he wants.




I applaud him for doing a good job of it.


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## Jeko (Dec 1, 2012)

> I applaud him for doing a good job of it.



As do I. I would never have warped the world so subtly.


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## BWFoster78 (Dec 1, 2012)

> I was thinking, BWFoster78, that you might do well to look into E E Richardson's work. She writes YA paranormal horror stories of quite a high calibre, and she conveys tension very well.



Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll put her on my to read list.


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## BWFoster78 (Dec 1, 2012)

empresstheresa said:


> Well that's interesting.
> I've had people criticize me, claiming I'm offended by "suggestions".  The pot calling the kettle black.
> 
> You put a porn shop in a strip mall?  :cookie:  Don't you think the other businesses in the mall would complain about that?
> Porn shops are in some secondary street somewhere in the older sections of the middle of a large city.  I know.  I visit them all.



First of all, I want to thank you for commenting.  I would much rather have someone take an interest than have my post get crickets in response.  I really do appreciate you taking the time to read the story and make comments.

I am confused, however, by your "pot calling the kettle black" comment.  Typically, that expression is used to indicate hypocrisy.  Have I criticized you being offended?  I don't think I have.  It seems inaccurate to say, "It's hypocritical of you to take offense at my comments when others, but not you, have criticized me for the same thing."

Not a big deal.  Just sayin'.

For the record, the strip mall in question holds a convenience store, a dry cleaners, and a XXX video shop.  I think it gives just the right tone to the setting.  If there's a porn shop, you know immediately what kind of area of town you're in.  As to the term "strip mall," I use it to refer to a single building that holds a bunch of retail businesses.  If there's a better term, let me know.

The reason for my initial comment about your posts, however, is that the tone of your writing presents a question as to your motivation. The comments from other posters, whether I agree with them or not, are clearly intended to improve my writing.  Even if I disagree with the comment in question, I appreciate any such effort.  Maybe it's a problem of the way I'm inferring your comments or it's the tone that you use, but I kind of get the feeling that your purpose in posting is to either get a rise out of me or to find fault for the sake of being able to say something negative.  If I'm incorrect in my acessment of your motivation, I apologize.  That is, however, the way you're coming across.

Hope this clears up my meaning.

Thanks!

Brian


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## empresstheresa (Dec 1, 2012)

> Maybe it's a problem of the way I'm inferring your comments or it's the tone that you use, but I kind of get the feeling that your purpose in posting is to either get a rise out of me or to find fault for the sake of being able to say something negative. If I'm incorrect in my acessment of your motivation, I apologize. That is, however, the way you're coming across.
> 
> Hope this clears up my meaning.



When I write a post I stick to the facts.  
I don't get cuddly with the person I'm addressing.  That would be fake.  We're never going to meet.  So it's just the facts, Jack.

Apparently, this sounds negative to some people.  It shouldn't.  When a good newsanchor on a major network reads the news,  he should stick to the facts. Period.
Of course, when he reads the news, he's not really addressing individual people watching it.
Here's it's different.  A poster is addressing somebody in particular, and in addition the topic is that person's work.  

Nobody likes to hear suggestions for changes in his work.  But to think I have very negative vibes is jumping to conclusions.  I don't even know who you are.


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## Jon M (Dec 2, 2012)

empresstheresa said:


> I don't get cuddly with the person I'm addressing.  That would be fake.


You may have an easier, more pleasant time here if maybe you treated others as fellow people. Like, it's cool: if you want you can totally get cuddly with me. I'm tall, dark, and handsome, enjoy long walks on the beach and music that'd blow your pants off and perfect for your cuddly needs -- a little squishy around the middle (but I'm working on it). 



> Nobody likes to hear suggestions for changes in his work.


Au contraire, mon amie.


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## Jeko (Dec 2, 2012)

> When I write a post I stick to the facts.
> I don't get cuddly with the person I'm addressing. That would be fake.



We all stick to the facts. But you can do that without getting tetchy.

And why not get cuddly? It makes the critiquing a whole lot easier to swallow. 



> Nobody likes to hear suggestions for changes in his work.



That reveals a lot.

Fact: You do have a very negative vibe, empresstheresa. I'd look into lessening it than trying to find another definition and explanation for it. It would help people recieve your critiques a lot better.


BWFoster78 - I wonder if you've watched Donnie Darko? I saw it recently after FleshEater's suggestion, and it was a real eye opener into how you can present the surreal and paranormal. Worth looking into, if you haven't already.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Dec 2, 2012)

Hello, BW, I will not cuddle you but I will critique you. I read through your piece and thought it was quite well-written overall. Interesting scene with the kids going through the dumpsters, seemed believable and realistic enough for me, and I enjoyed it. A couple suggestions:

a) I think you could work a little more on making your characters' personalities come through. My initial thought, when I think about kids dumpster diving, is that they're street kids or gutter punks or something, so I was surprised when they they said they were in ROTC. Maybe you could describe them more, or use clearer descriptions -- your description of Delgado confused me, maybe a "high and tight" hairstyle is a specific thing and I just never heard the term, but I didn't know what you meant -- or their dialogue could be a bit sharper and more expressive of their personalities in some way.

b) Sometimes I thought you over-told a little bit; there were moments when the characters would move or speak and then you'd explain the reason, when I thought it would be better to let the reader infer the reason from the action. Example:


> As soon as she turned her back to her friend, her confidence evaporated.   He’s right, she thought.  The guy should have woken.  Something’s not  right.


You don't really need to report her thought here -- we can guess it from the preceding sentence.

c) You use smell a lot, which is good, but would be more evocative, maybe, if you used some similes or comparisons for the smell. You say it's sickeningly sweet, rotten, then at one point Christy thinks it might be vomit (which has a very recognizable smell, I wondered if dead-body smell and vomit could be confused; I suppose both might be present). I wanted a sentence that just told me, "It was like _______" to give me a clear idea.

d) The opening stutters a little for me, with these very short paragraphs. I'd condense them into one, leading off with Christy's speech. (_"I hate this alley," Christy said, staring into the deep shadows_ -- something like that)

It's a good start and good luck with your continuation -- hope this helps.


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## BWFoster78 (Dec 3, 2012)

> BWFoster78 - I wonder if you've watched Donnie Darko? I saw it recently after FleshEater's suggestion, and it was a real eye opener into how you can present the surreal and paranormal. Worth looking into, if you haven't already.



I have not seen it.


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## BWFoster78 (Dec 3, 2012)

> a) I think you could work a little more on making your characters' personalities come through. My initial thought, when I think about kids dumpster diving, is that they're street kids or gutter punks or something, so I was surprised when they they said they were in ROTC. Maybe you could describe them more, or use clearer descriptions -- your description of Delgado confused me, maybe a "high and tight" hairstyle is a specific thing and I just never heard the term, but I didn't know what you meant -- or their dialogue could be a bit sharper and more expressive of their personalities in some way.



I get your concern.  I think I could definitely stand to bring out a little more of the character's personality.  I'll work on that.

On the other points, I'm not quite sure I agree.  To me, a reader's expectations/pictures in their mind should be malleable.  Upon first reading about these kids digging through trash, you formed an opinion.  I have no problem with that.  Once I show you something in the story that changes that picture, you have to change it.  Otherwise, I'd have to start my story like this: Meet Christy.  She's seventeen, a Brazillian-American student at a high school in Corona, CA.  She's in an alley on a dark night because...  You get the point.  It just doesn't bother me that I wait until the end of the chapter to tell why they were in the alley.

I also get you with the "high and tight."  Most people reading aren't going to know what that means.  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  On the positive side, it keeps the character's authentic; it's how these characters would describe the hair cut.  On the negative, most readers are just going to skip right over it.



> You don't really need to report her thought here -- we can guess it from the preceding sentence.



Agreed.  Good point.



> at one point Christy thinks it might be vomit



I think you misunderstood.  She thinks that the wet spot (which is blood) might be vomit, not the smell.



> I wanted a sentence that just told me, "It was like _______" to give me a clear idea.



Okay.  I'll take that into consideration.  Thanks.



> d) The opening stutters a little for me, with these very short paragraphs. I'd condense them into one, leading off with Christy's speech. (_"I hate this alley," Christy said, staring into the deep shadows_ -- something like that)



I tend to use this technique as my opening: a short sentence in a paragraph all of its own that introduces a character performing some action.



> It's a good start and good luck with your continuation -- hope this helps.



It does.  Thanks for taking the time to read and make comments!

Brian


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## Don V Standeford (Dec 21, 2012)

I enjoyed this piece of fiction as it does conjure up suspense and I can follow the action and appreciate the irony. I would like to know ahead of time that these are not ordinary dumpster divers. Then when the cops don't believe their story of who they are we can be in on the irony.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is this fiction piece is written like a television script. This gives it an appeal to the sense of sight, but none of the other senses. Even the sense of smell is not evoked, despite the fact they're diving through dumpsters and found a smelly dead body. This is an objective viewpoint that hardly enters into the lives and minds of the actors except through sight and dialogue. There is little filtering done through anyone's mind. There is very little point of view interest here. I can understand how this could happen since it's a collaboration. In a collaboration the plot is worked out from an objective point of view.

So basically, fiction technique has been replaced by television script. It could easily read like this:

(Enter Christy staring into the shadows. The light above the convenience store’s back door flashes its harsh  fluorescent glow into surrounding crevices.  A homeless man’s knee  twitches.)

Christy: I hate this alley;It’s freaking creepy.

(Delgado shines his flashlight into a dumpster and digs out a glass  bottle. A bulb flickers overhead.)

Delgado: I’m with you, but where else can we fill a bag in less than  an hour?

(Exhaling Christy sifts through the greasy remains  of discarded meals.  The stench of decay assaults her as she pulls out  plastic soda bottles and aluminum beer cans.)

Delgado: See, I’ve already got twenty.  That’s a buck.


This is a good first draft, but in order to really engage the reader more fiction techniques must be used. The contrasts/comparisons are all dealing with light/dark, as if it took place on a set. A little characterization would be nice. All the characterization is done by watching the scene. Don't get me wrong, there is much that is done right here. The concrete part of the scene builds up well; many people do just the opposite, stacking on analogies, metaphors, drawing up comparisons and contrasts, digging into character's past, etc. So this starts out concrete, a scene that reads like a script.



> Christy stared into the deep shadows.
> 
> The light above the convenience store’s back door flashed its harsh  fluorescent glow into surrounding crevices.  A homeless man’s knee  twitched.
> 
> “I hate this alley,” she said.  “It’s freaking creepy.”



What did Christy see in the dark shadows. Here we're watching her stare into the dark shadows. But it's what she sees through her eyes that when shown to us will help us draw into the story and experience it from her point of view instead of just as watchers.

"A homeless man's knee twitched." Where's the knee? It sounds like it might be anywhere. It's a disembodied knee twitching somewhere. Since it seems "disembodied," it fails to evoke emotion or any kind of response. Why not see it through Christy's eyes.

Christy caught a glimpse of something through the haze of flourescent light. Looked like a leg, denim jeans. She peered closer. The knee twitched. "Oh!" she yelled, tripping back, "I hate this alley; it's freaking creepy!"



> Christy’s feet lifted off the ground as she reached further into the  garbage.  Her glasses slid down, and she used the back of her wrist to  push them back into place.  Gagging at the smell, she finally reached  the plastic bag she dug toward and found it stuffed with old newspaper.   “This one’s tapped out.  Let’s move to the next.”



Christy gripped the cold rough metal of the dumpster and pulled herself further up. Her glasses started to slide down. With both arms busy holding her up, she had to work her wrist around to push the glasses into place. Her nose itched. She gagged at the smell, not just the smell of trash discarded; more like maggots on meat. "This one's scary," she said, her voice echoing in the canister. She reached for the nearest plastic bag, dug into it. She had thought there would be a dead thing in it. It turned out just to be wadded up newspapers. "Doesn't anybody recycle," she muttered. "This one's tapped out," she said. "Let's move on to the next."


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## erusson (Dec 30, 2012)

_EDIT: Some of my advice might be what other people have said as I didn't realise there were 3 pages of comments - sorry!_

I really enjoyed reading this piece and loved the cliffhanger ending. This is also the second piece (almost in a row) that I've read on this forum involving a dead cat and I'm starting to worry about my fellow writers. 

I disagree that you should cut it down as much as @empresstheresa suggests. Yep, there is a lot you could cut out, but you're quite good at description/setting the scene so I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to use your strengths here. The build-up to the dead man worked really well in my opinion. Maybe others would prefer it to get there quicker, so maybe just try and find a balance rather than cutting it down quite so much.

I also think it's going to be great to deliver to a YA audience (I guess because your niece is 17 so she probs knows what they want!). The tone is great and very readable.



BWFoster78 said:


> She dropped to the ground and stepped over three bums on her way to the back of the porn store.


 Do you mean 'porn' or 'pawn'? Best check so there's no embarrassment 

I don't think you need 'Sensing something off'. Show don't tell!

You've also used "lifeless eyes" twice. I don't know if you were trying to loop back to the cat, but maybe mix it up a bit.



> The movement again.  Her body jerked, and she dropped the carcass.


 I really like this part, but it did confuse me a little as it made me think that it was the cat's dead body moving.



> It was like she could only catch sight of whatever it was with her peripheral vision.


 Cut this out, it works fine without it and the sentence sounds a little bit off.



> A bum behind her shouted for them to shut up.


 I would say you probably shouldn't call homeless people 'bums' unless it's in dialogue, it's not very PC!



> “You mean I should check it out.  Stupid pansy.”  Christy sighed.


 I can't imagine teens today using the word 'pansy' as an insult, it's a little old-fashioned.



> He drew his gun and pointed it at Delgado before shifting it to her.  “You’re both under arrest.”


 AWESOME! I WANT TO READ ON!


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