# Hemingway



## JP Wagner (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm surprised there wasn't already a thread discussing him. In any event,
What do you all think of Hemingway?
Personally I took him for granted at first because his style was a little bit different and odd, but after studying some of the books a bit closer I found there is pure genious between the lines in some of his work. I haven't read it all yet, but I enjoy many of his short stories, such as "The Snows Of Kilimanjaro" and "The Killers" but I am an even bigger fan of "The Old Man and the Sea" which he won the pulitzer for and "The Sun Also Rises" which was his opposite reponse to F. Scott Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby"
Any opinions?


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## kalibantre (Jun 8, 2006)

I've read a few of his shorts that I loved, but I recently read "A Moveable Feast" and was so dissapointed. I found it to be okay and good for the most part with only small parts being excellent. I expected so much more...


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## BeautifulDisaster (Jun 8, 2006)

I've read "The Sun Also Rises" for my American Modernism class and I thought it was the best out of all the other novels (I had to read "Nightwood" , "Three Lives" and I forget what else!).


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## Bob Loblaw (Jun 8, 2006)

I hate Hemingway with a PASSION!  

I read _A Farewell to Arms_ and it feels like he just keeps on writing about unrelated things or just keeps on repeating the same thing: e.g. It's raining. I'm sad. Yes, it's raining... And I'm sad...-- Okay, I get it!

I'm not saying that his writing has no meaning, it really does, but it's just bad writing, in my opinion-- but of course, I don't like anything from the so called "Lost Generation."


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## JP Wagner (Jun 8, 2006)

Bob Loblaw said:
			
		

> I hate Hemingway with a PASSION!
> 
> I read _A Farewell to Arms_ and it feels like he just keeps on writing about unrelated things or just keeps on repeating the same thing: e.g. It's raining. I'm sad. Yes, it's raining... And I'm sad...-- Okay, I get it!
> 
> I'm not saying that his writing has no meaning, it really does, but it's just bad writing, in my opinion-- but of course, I don't like anything from the so called "Lost Generation."


 
Hmm....interesting view.

I have not read that novel yet, so I can't offer a valid opinion on it. But one thing I must say is, Hemingway makes a story tell itself through the view of a person. He is great with first person narrative, something I suck at myself so I have a great respect for those who can do it well. 

Usually he tells the story through the person in a way you wouldn't expect, which is why you have to figure it out through the arguous and sometimes confusing dialouge. Can this be annoying? YES....but its true to life. Alot of people think or act like the characters in his novels however annoying or stupid it may be, and that is one of the things that makes him so great.

I actually don't enjoy things from the 20's or 30's usually either, or the whole world war 1 craze. Though I enjoyed the Sun Also Rises, one of Hemingway's great works and the Great Gatsby by his counterpart Fitzgerald.


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## cabbageguy (Jun 10, 2006)

I read Old Man and the Sea in class. Most people couldn't finish it (I don't see how). I found it pretty decent. It was simple, but it told the story of an old man in the style that a character like that would use.

Hemingway's good at that, his style is the character's style. It's the same with For Whom the Bell Tolls, about the Spanish Civil War. It feels "spanish", which is an achievement for an english book.


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## Mike C (Jun 10, 2006)

Bob Loblaw said:
			
		

> I hate Hemingway with a PASSION!



You read Farewell to Arms, and all you came away with was 'it's raining'? That's so sad.

Hemingway is probably the best american writer of the 20th century (And has a nobel to prove it!).

Where people misunderstand him is in the apparent lack of description and the sparseness of the prose - I suggest you wait a couple of years, and read it again. FTA is a truly remarkable book, and you can learn a lot from it.


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## strangedaze (Jun 10, 2006)

i hate to say it, but as much as i like my writing oozing masculinity and anti-semetism, i just couldnt fall in love with 'the sun also rises.' i find that the writing is so... i dont know - unimaginative is the first word that comes to mind. i have the portable hemingway and the cover says that half of writers today try to imitate him, and the other half try very hard not to. i think id fall into the latter camp. still, i appreciate where uncle ernie's talents lie, and know that my aversion to his technique doesnt make him a poor writer. personal taste will do that for you.


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## Bob Loblaw (Jun 11, 2006)

Mike C said:
			
		

> You read Farewell to Arms, and all you came away with was 'it's raining'? That's so sad.
> 
> Hemingway is probably the best american writer of the 20th century (And has a nobel to prove it!).
> 
> Where people misunderstand him is in the apparent lack of description and the sparseness of the prose - I suggest you wait a couple of years, and read it again. FTA is a truly remarkable book, and you can learn a lot from it.


 
Yes it's very sad...But of course I got more from _A Farewell to Arms_ (I'm slow, but not THAT slow)-- e.g. death, make love not war, etc... What annoys me about it is that his writing style is so...blunt I guess you can say. And personally, by the end of the that novel I'm just annoyed with all the characters...

But it's like what strangedaze said:



			
				strangedaze said:
			
		

> half of writers today try to imitate him, and the other half try very hard not to. i think id fall into the latter camp. still, i appreciate where uncle ernie's talents lie, and know that my aversion to his technique doesnt make him a poor writer


 
--Took the words out of my mouth!


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## BillyLiar (Jun 11, 2006)

I just recently read The Old Man and the Sea, and found it entertaining. I did grow a bit attached to the character, especially during the shark scene. I can see where some people would find him 'blah', but it's a story through a (most likely) illiterate fisherman who lives to fish and occasionally thinks about baseball. Towards the end I was thinking, are the man and the fish really that different? Both tied to an inescapable fate..they're both just going down fighting, but that is what they do.
Afterall, 'anyone can be a fisherman in May'.


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## Mungye (Jun 11, 2006)

That is a very good comparison. And on the other side both can fight, fight with all they have deep inside them and live to see another sunrise.
Billyliar-I remember when I was a little girl there were reruns of the British show called that(is that where you get that from) and each time I heard his lies I felt like hiding myself under a huge rock from humiliation. Loved his mental thoughts about blowing up people or tying up his wee gran though even though I hate violence.


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## BillyLiar (Jun 11, 2006)

not to take away from your nostalgia, but i'm not named directly after the show. my favorite band wrote a song called billy liar (after the musical) so that's where i heard it at first.


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## JP Wagner (Jun 11, 2006)

The other funny thing is, as with most great writers, they are remembered mostly for their novels. But if you look at Hemingway's short stories, there is gold there as well. The short stories are underrate these days as everyone is obsessed with the bigger titles.


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## Mungye (Jun 12, 2006)

BillyLiar said:
			
		

> not to take away from your nostalgia, but i'm not named directly after the show. my favorite band wrote a song called billy liar (after the musical) so that's where i heard it at first.


 
oh pardon me. Well......that's even better!:thumbr:


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## TWariner (Sep 22, 2007)

He was a good-looking guy, wasn't he?

I've read The Old Man and the Sea and some of his collections.  I read the Old Man and the Sea when I was quite young and I found it difficult to read, but pushed through it.  It impressed, me, though.  I must read more of his stuff and reread that one.


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## SmolderPage (Sep 23, 2007)

*Shame on You Guys!*

Wow.  I'm thoroughly amazed at the lack of enthusiasm for America's GREATEST writer.  Steinbeck was weaker in dialogue, Twain holed himself into too narrow a space, and Hawthorne, well, Hawthorne wrote in 20 pages what should've been written in six.  No author has ever delivered with greater precision and courage the perpetual struggles of mankind.  He was a revolutionary, a genius of the stocky, rugged style.  While other authors sought fluidity and a divine beauty, Hemingway chased hungrily after authenticity and the very dirt and grime that made up the world he observed.  Among none of the other responses did I find a reference to For Whom the Bell Tolls, perhaps his most complete work, where he provides some of the 20th century's greatest descriptions of the fleeting love as well as the seemingly endless toil of death.  I also found that many who commented based their opinions on The Sun Also Rises.  This was his first published novel, merely the platform for the greatness he would later achieve.  And then, of course, is the ever-debated The Old Man and the Sea.  In so few pages, has any writer in history ever expressed as richly such a universal and timeless theme?  If writers are boxers, it is a shame we give such credit to those with superior footwork, those who dance around the ring, sticking their nose in danger only when they are sure to deliver a punch.  Why do we condemn the clumsy man, who stands mightily with his toes pointed directly at the _true_ perils, but throws his fists in a simple and powerful way, taking whatever is coming to him?  I will tell you one thing, the resolve of the clumsy man does not fall so easily.


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## SmolderPage (Sep 23, 2007)

*Shame on You Guys!*

Wow. I'm thoroughly amazed at the lack of enthusiasm for America's GREATEST writer. Steinbeck was weaker in dialogue, Twain holed himself into too narrow a space, and Hawthorne, well, Hawthorne wrote in 20 pages what should've been written in six. No author has ever delivered with greater precision and courage the perpetual struggles of mankind. He was a revolutionary, a genius of the stocky, rugged style. While other authors sought fluidity and a divine beauty, Hemingway chased hungrily after authenticity and the very dirt and grime that made up the world he observed. Among none of the other responses did I find a reference to For Whom the Bell Tolls, perhaps his most complete work, where he provides some of the 20th century's greatest descriptions of the fleeting love as well as the seemingly endless toil of death. I also found that many who commented based their opinions on The Sun Also Rises. This was his first published novel, merely the platform for the greatness he would later achieve. And then, of course, is the ever-debated The Old Man and the Sea. In so few pages, has any writer in history ever expressed as richly such a universal and timeless theme? If writers are boxers, it is a shame we give such credit to those with superior footwork, those who dance around the ring, sticking their nose in danger only when they are sure to deliver a punch. Why do we condemn the clumsy man, who stands mightily with his toes pointed directly at the _true_ perils, but throws his fists in a simple and powerful way, taking whatever is coming to him? I will tell you one thing, the resolve of the clumsy man does not fall so easily.


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## Linton Robinson (Sep 23, 2007)

I guess.   He sure had some good-looking daughters.


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## Edgewise (Sep 25, 2007)

For Whom the Bell tolls should be required reading for all of humanity.


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## ClancyBoy (Sep 26, 2007)

Mike C said:


> You read Farewell to Arms, and all you came away with was 'it's raining'? That's so sad.
> 
> Hemingway is probably the best american writer of the 20th century (And has a nobel to prove it!).
> 
> Where people misunderstand him is in the apparent lack of description and the sparseness of the prose - I suggest you wait a couple of years, and read it again. FTA is a truly remarkable book, and you can learn a lot from it.



He's a great writer, but I don't think his style ages well.  There's a reason Hemingway is the 20th century author that is the easiest to parody.  He peppers his prose with strange pithy little comments like "for that is what a man must do," and crap like that.  What the hell?  That looks like a deliberate attempt to be unique, and I despise deliberate attempts to be unique.  Just tell the goddamn story and stop advertising yourself.

Hemingway was very popular with America's post-WWII neuveaux riches, the same people who read Playboy magazine for advice on affluent living.  That should tell you something.  He has substance, but there's a lot of form to get wrapped up in too.

Oh, and a Nobel Prize only means the King of Sweden liked him.  If Richard Feynman's account of the Swedish court is to be believed, they only award prizes to people who are popular anyway for other reasons.  It's not exactly an award for merit.


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## ClancyBoy (Sep 26, 2007)

SmolderPage said:


> Wow. I'm thoroughly amazed at the lack of enthusiasm for America's GREATEST writer.



America's greatest writer was Ambrose Bierce.  Hemingway is the most _famous_.


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## EcstasyOfGold (Oct 2, 2007)

I love some of his short stories. "The Killers" is definitely one of my all-time favs, and "A Clean, Well-lighted place" is packed full of emotion, something I hadn't expected from Hemingway. "A Day's Wait" is also a wee gem.

And although I like parts of his message (facing death like "a man", living life to the fullest), I think in around twenty or so years this message will be seen as archaic. This is because it's tied-in with his experiences during The Second World War and The Spanish Civil War. From what I've read, it seems that he hated cowards (those in battle, I mean). That's not the attitude of mordern liberal thinking.

I guess what I'm saying is his message only works if you treat it metaphorically, not literally. But with some of the stuff he wrote, that's almost impossible.


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## Garden of Kadesh (Oct 2, 2007)

Hemingway's writing is very, very minimalistic. Some people don't like that style. But the thing is, you know when he's trying to get something across. You just have to look for the parts with description.

Unfortunately, I've only read The Sun Also Rises. But now that I'm got myself into a literature class, I'll probably be all over Hemingway like a fly to shit.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 2, 2007)

Twain is so far out ahead of Hemingway as the signature American writer is ridiculous suggest otherwise.   

There are hundreds of better writers working today, right now.   He came up with the right credentials at the right time.


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## Edgewise (Oct 2, 2007)

"There are hundreds of better writers working today, right now."

Many of whom owe a debt to Hemmingway for their pared down style.


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## Mike C (Oct 3, 2007)

lin said:


> He came up with the right credentials at the right time.




As did Twain, et al. Capture the zeitgeist and you're half-way there.


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## Mr Sci Fi (Oct 3, 2007)

Hemingway. Sure loved. Those fragments.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 4, 2007)

> Many of whom owe a debt to Hemmingway for their pared down style.



That's really silly.


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## Thoth (Oct 4, 2007)

ClancyBoy said:


> He's a great writer, but I don't think his style ages well.  There's a reason Hemingway is the 20th century author that is the easiest to parody.  He peppers his prose with strange pithy little comments like "for that is what a man must do," and crap like that.  What the hell?  That looks like a deliberate attempt to be unique, and I despise deliberate attempts to be unique.  *Just tell the goddamn story and stop advertising yourself.*


writers usually advertise themselves in their stories.
Hemingway is an acquired taste, like a Ruben sandwich or Guinness.
Did his stories suffer from machismo? Well, he had his own style and that should be respected.


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## blazeofglory (Oct 4, 2007)

JP Wagner said:


> I'm surprised there wasn't already a thread discussing him. In any event,
> What do you all think of Hemingway?
> Personally I took him for granted at first because his style was a little bit different and odd, but after studying some of the books a bit closer I found there is pure genious between the lines in some of his work. I haven't read it all yet, but I enjoy many of his short stories, such as "The Snows Of Kilimanjaro" and "The Killers" but I am an even bigger fan of "The Old Man and the Sea" which he won the pulitzer for and "The Sun Also Rises" which was his opposite reponse to F. Scott Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby"
> Any opinions?



Hemingway has been always a favorite writer of mine, indeed he was a great writer. I started with his book The Old man and The Sea. It was such a nice book that it really delighted me. I have read this book several times, and each time it gave me a new meaning indeed. It is full of meanings, something we seek in life and the central thought i s man's perpetual  fight against the forces of  nature. 

The other book I read of Hemingway was Fare Well to Arms and this book  too is really interesting.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 5, 2007)

> writers usually advertise themselves in their stories.



Not so by any stretch of the imagination.

The current ideal in writing is generally seen to be "transparency"... the idea that there are no artifacts that come between the reader and the story itself.

There are writers that self-agrandize, but unless done humorously (which maybe two or three people do) it's not widely enjoyed.

As ClancyBoy says,  that whole "a man goes to do a good, brave thing" stuff has not aged well.   You can just hear Hemingway and Mailer talking themselves into the idea that they are real men.


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## Non Serviam (Oct 5, 2007)

ClancyBoy said:


> America's greatest writer was Ambrose Bierce. Hemingway is the most _famous_.


 
I like Bierce too--but I find his misanthropy just a bit too vicious.  His writing isn't just acid, it's corrosive.  Occasionally screamingly funny.  But there's too much Bierce and not enough story.

Personally I think Hemingway's the better writer, although I don't think either of them belong in the same league with Vonnegut.


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## Thoth (Oct 5, 2007)

lin said:


> Not so by any stretch of the imagination.


very much so, why else would a person write other than to let the reader get a glimpse into their mind?


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 6, 2007)

Well, apparently just to clutter up forums.

The discussion was self-advertisement/self-agrandisement.  Quite a stretch from that to artistic expression.    There are MANY reasons for writing.  Making money.  Telling a story that happened to occur.   Exercising creativity.

The idea that writing is all about the writer and done in order to show off shows a lot about anybody stating it, but is hardly central to serious writers' motivations.


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## Thoth (Oct 6, 2007)

lin said:


> Well, apparently just to clutter up forums.


was that directed to me?
I came here for healthy debate ,not for strangers with empty lives to throw insults around.


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## Eli Cash (Oct 24, 2007)

The further I get sucked in to the world of journalism, the more I appreciate his spare, direct prose.


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## stillwriting (Nov 6, 2007)

*Question for those who liked "The Killers"*

I picked up "Best American Short Stories of the Century" edited by John Updike from the library the other day and started in on it. Loved some, liked others, but hated "The Killers" (I happen to be a fan of Hemingway and think that "Big Two Hearted River" is brilliant and could have been a selection for the collection. But this choice would have been predictable, too). 

Question is this: What made you like it? The notion of hitmen going into an eating establishment and waiting to kill poor Ole while the staff is tied up seemed bizarre. I did like the surprise of Ole telling Nick basically that it was his time to go and of his indifference to his impending death. To me, the dialogue was the definition of pain (I understand that they didn't talk like we do now). If anyone ever wants to torture me, skip the waterboard. Just tie me in a chair and scream over and over again, "Bright boy! Bright Boy!" I'll tell you anything you want to know.

I'm not criticizing your taste. I fully understand that I could have missed a salient point or message that Hemingway was trying to convey. Just trying to get a handle on this story.


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## Throughy (Nov 8, 2007)

'For Whom the Bell Tolls' has stuck with me, but did ramble on sometimes in endless fashion, an attempt to overbalance the love plot with an historic war mark I think. In my view, it could have stood abbreviation. The movie was unforgettable & excellent cast.

Have wanted 'Islands in the Stream' yet no one seems to have it local.


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## Eli Cash (Nov 8, 2007)

Much as I love Hemingway, I have to admit that "The Killers" is not my favorite thing he's ever done.

Of all the short stuff, I like "Fifty Grand" best, but I'm a boxing fan, so consider the source.


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## Delvok (Nov 9, 2007)

I loved The Old Man and The Sea and I'm planning on reading For Whom The Bell Tolls.


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