# Seven Years Old...Seven!



## T.N. Kettman (May 13, 2010)

I myself am speechless. Or perhaps I am too conservative for my own good. This of course is coming from a mother whose daughter will not be allowed to date until she is 16. Any thoughts?

http://www.parentdish.com/2010/05/1...is-this-single-ladies-video-too-hot-for-tots/


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

That's really disturbing. I can't imagine a parent allowing a child to participate in something like that. My daughter is 7, and there's no way in hell we'd allow that. What is wrong with people?


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## moderan (May 13, 2010)

Absolutely inappropriate.


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## seigfried007 (May 13, 2010)

My daughter turned seven today. Anyone who would come up with those costumes or have children dance to that song needs to be shot.


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## T.N. Kettman (May 13, 2010)

Someone commented, and I quote, "These costumes are adorable and these girls are having a blast! Their dance moves are AWESOME! Anyone who has a problem with this talented number is just jealous."  What is wrong with people???


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

No big deal.  It's a theater number.
Anybody who's been around little girls knows they love to dress up in stuff like that and dance around and vamp and act out Madonna videos and stuff.   Wearing more than they would to go swimming.

Anybody who's reading a lot of sexual content into this should check themselves out a little.


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## caelum (May 13, 2010)

I'm all for freedom of expression, but there's just too many pedos and creeps out there for this to be appropriate.  Surely they can dance to something else in different outfits.


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## NaClmine (May 13, 2010)

Other than some of the ballet-inspired spins, it doesn't look much different than the local cheerleader routines for little girls at Pop Warner football games.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

Whether or not it's appropriate I dunno but god damn those kids are talented... they are incredibly coordinated for 7 year olds, crazy.


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## alanmt (May 13, 2010)

disgusting, oversexualized costumes.  they're 7, for heaven's sakes!


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## Like a Fox (May 13, 2010)

Pfffttt That's amazingly ridiculous.

I was a dancer for 8 years and my little sister who is 18 has been at the same dance school for 15 years. So I've been to a lot of dance concerts. Every now and then I've seen a number that I thought crossed a line... But not like that. Our teachers were pretty mindful of the age of the dancers and what they should be portraying.
I can't get over the choreography - and am also weirdly impressed that these girls could pull a lot of it off. That said, it was pretty messy - the choreographer is clearly living out some unattained dream of being a stripper through a bunch of kids.
It's definitely sexual. The costumes aren't a big deal as far as costumes go, but those girls are bumping and grinding like pros. And that's gross.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

There are all kinds of problems associated with sexualizing children. Either you get it, or you don't. It's a waste of time trying to get through to people who think this kind of thing is all harmless and peachy.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

Just for the record, if I had a daughter in a dance class and the teacher had her do something like that, someone would be getting their house burned down.


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## The Backward OX (May 13, 2010)

JosephB said:


> It's a waste of time trying to get through to people who think this kind of thing is all harmless and peachy.



Agreeed. So why _do_ other people waste their time talking about it amongst themselves? Nothing's going to change.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

interesting conversation?  gabbing about controversy?  not everything has to have a deep sense of purpose...


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

Just another example of the pressure to look and act inappropriately to be appealing.


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## The Hack (May 13, 2010)

My oldest turns 6 in a month.   I can't imagine the sick fuck who who would turn her pure innocence to something perverted.  It's beyond me; she's a child...to me, hardly out of the womb.  I would, without hesitation or concern for the consequences to me, kill the fuck who expressed a sexual interest in my 6 year old.


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

Well, it sounds like your sexualizing these kids.  Who are just dancing and having fun for crissakes.

And I don't buy into the whole  "learning to be sexually appealing" thing either.   
Neither to I think little boys toting stetsons and six guns to be learning violence and attempting to project a macho courtship attitude.

They are kids.  Dressing up and having fun.   
I'd say anybody who is "disturbed" by this, probably is.


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

Meanwhile, all the balanced, normal people commenting on this are talking about killing people and burning their houses down.

Hey, I ADMIT to being a pervert, but I'm not that far gone.


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## Like a Fox (May 13, 2010)

I don't think the problem lies in the kids. The kids didn't make up that dance or design those costumes.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

The thing is, it's not just dance class. It's pervasive, on TV, movies, music etc. Everything from problems that stem from self-image issues, like anorexia to teens having sex too young -- before they are able to fully deal with consequences -- are all exacerbated by this sort of early sexualization. 

Try clothes shopping for a 7 year old and see what's available or look at toys like Brats. It's ridiculous. And this isn't pop-psych over-protective BS or moralizing. You just have to look around and be a little aware to see the negative consequences.



lin said:


> Meanwhile, all the balanced, normal people commenting on this are talking about killing people and burning their houses down.



Not all -- and I actually have a dog in this hunt.


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## Kat (May 13, 2010)

Totally inappropriate. I still won't let my daughter wear a bikini and she's 12 so maybe I'm just an over protective parent.  

I showed my daughter. I asked her if she thought it was okay. First off she'd said the outfits were wrong. The dancers were really good. Then at the end of the clip she said it was just wrong, not cool. 

If another child thinks it's inappropriate what is that saying about it.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

lin said:


> Meanwhile, all the balanced, normal people commenting on this are talking about killing people and burning their houses down.
> 
> Hey, I ADMIT to being a pervert, but I'm not that far gone.



If you thought someone was doing some perverted ass shit with your daughter, wouldn't you be enraged enough to do something extreme?


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

No, it's probably an immitation of a dance in a movie or video or some musical somewhere.  And using the same costumes.  Which are innocent enough unless somebody wants to start sexualizing them.

Which is a perversion in itself.   Flat out.   I'm beginning to think I'm the least sick person in here.  And THAT is disturbing.


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

> I'm all for freedom of expression, but there's just too many pedos and creeps out there



"Out there"?     You really beleive that?


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

"All these" doesn't mean 100%.  It's like "all these liberals running around" or something.  An expression.  you're either aware of that or your not and should be.

And you know what,  everybody has a dog in this hunt.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

lin said:


> No, it's probably an immitation of a dance in a movie or video or some musical somewhere. And using the same costumes. Which are innocent enough unless somebody wants to start sexualizing them.
> 
> Which is a perversion in itself. Flat out. I'm beginning to think I'm the least sick person in here. And THAT is disturbing.



So you'd have no problem if your 6 year old daughter dressed up in a mini skirt, slapped on some whorish make up and walked off to school?


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

You twisted it around from dancing in costume to being whorish in school.    
Almost always a sign of a weak argument when it won't stand on it's own feet without being pimped into something else.

I think it should be really clear by now that I have no problem whatsoever with any little girl dressing up in whatever costume,  trying on mom's lingerie,  imitating celebries, or having fun doing a dance number.

The very fact that you, and others, are using terms like "sexuality" and "whore" to describe this is symptom of being really fucked-up in my experience.   I'm not seeiing sex there.  If you are, go see somebody who can help you with it.

It' it's all sexual enough to trigger fantasies of murder and arson, as some have hinted, DEFINITELY go get some help.  

The pervos are not "out there".


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

I think you're missing the point, but whatever, I don't really care because I don't have any children. I was just saying that if it were my daughter(if I had one), I'd be upset.


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

I'm not missing your point.   You are.  Whatever it is.  If it has do with going to school dressed like whores it has nothign to do with this discussion.

Other than that, I think it's pretty easy to understand what I'm saying.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNfB58oBjA0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tKdAu7Fnao

Go find the people who made that film and kill them and burn them down.

Or, rent it and enjoy a great little piece of cine.   If you can't watch something like this without getting turned on, don't go hurt other people.


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## Ilasir Maroa (May 13, 2010)

T.N. Kettman said:


> Someone commented, and I quote, "These costumes are adorable and these girls are having a blast! Their dance moves are AWESOME! Anyone who has a problem with this talented number is just jealous." What is wrong with people???



I'll cop to it: I _am_ jealous.  I wasn't that coordinated at 7, and I'm not sure I am even now.

I've seen girls that age or younger in a lot more revealing costumes.  Not necessarily as "sexualized", but still.  To be honest, I don't think the kids really understand the meaning behind those clothes or those moves.  I think they're just having fun.  That said, if you're not old enough to understand something, you probably oughtn't to be doing it.


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## Foxee (May 13, 2010)

Girls are incredibly impressionable at exactly this age. If you don't think that they're learning how to be appealing, then you really don't know anything about them at all.

They want to know how to be pretty, how to be liked, what they'll be like when they're a grown-up lady, how to dress to be admired, what boys are going to be like when they're done chasing frogs and are ready to be reasonable. Unfortunately, this innocent quest for knowledge can be really skewed and taken advantage of.

There are many influences already that convince these little girls that being skinny is beautiful resulting in eating disorders and sickening themselves on diet pills. There are images hammering at them from every angle telling them to grow up, fill out, and put out to be liked. Clothes and toys (Joe mentioned Bratz...those things are heinous) are geared more and more toward the lowest denominator.

What happened to being able to enjoy being a kid before these girls are rushed toward adulthood? You only get to be a kid for a little while, let them have their innocence. And the only way to let them have that is to help them by protecting them, teaching how to make better choices than they're being pressured to make.

And, lin, if you don't think that pedos are out there and actively looking for little ones...you're living in a delusion.


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## Sigg (May 13, 2010)

lin said:


> I'm not missing your point. You are. Whatever it is. If it has do with going to school dressed like whores it has nothign to do with this discussion.
> 
> Other than that, I think it's pretty easy to understand what I'm saying.
> 
> ...




Your logic faculties seem to be a little off this evening... How do you know you're not missing my point if you don't know what it is?

a.) dressing up like a celebrity and immitating an adult dance is in fact the same mentality/behavior as dressing up like a celebrity to go to school.  There is appropriate and inappropriate.
b.) it has nothing to do with me "getting turned on" so please stop insinuating that I'm some sort of pervert, it's getting tiresome

the reason it is inappropriate is because at that age they don't understand what it is they are immitating, but the adults that gave them the direction do.


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## JosephB (May 13, 2010)

Well, I think some people are overreacting. I've given this all a lot of thought, done some reading on it and talked to other parents as well. There is no point in demonizing the parents who allow this kind of thing. They just aren't very aware and aren't looking at the bigger implications. Same with that whole, very disturbing kiddy pageant scene, which is even worse. To them it's all harmless dress-up. They aren't thinking about how all this affects kids -- and it doesn't have a whole lot to do with the "pervs" out there.


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## Linton Robinson (May 13, 2010)

> And, lin, if you don't think that pedos are out there and actively looking for little ones...you're living in a delusion.



I never said that.  And am, I'd be willing to bet. a LOT more aware of that than you or probably anybody here.  Just a guess.

The idea that girls should wear swimsuits or dance it tutus or whatever somebody dreams up because there might be some creep drooling over them somewhere, if carried to it's logical conclusion (which is not where discussions like this tend to be carried)  would  indicate that kids should be robed and veiled.

And, again,  anybody reading sexuality into that dance or a cheerleader routine (which are generally even sexier) or any kind of dressup little girls want to do. has got a problem.   If it immediately causes them to start raving about murder and arson, they REALLY have a problem.

That's what I'm saying.

It's not my attitude that attempting to sexualize those girls early in life or to turn them into vamps--much less whores--it's the overheated prudery that we've seen here.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

> That said, if you're not old enough to understand something, you probably oughtn't to be doing it.



Bodes ill for the entire education industry, in which doing things is seen as the way to learn.   But the idea that these kids should dress up and dance because they don't understand the way prudes and lechers might view it is pretty weird.

They're little girls having fun.   Anybody who wants to read more into it than that should check themselves.


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## Foxee (May 14, 2010)

We aren't excoriating the little girls. The dance teacher and the parents could have made a lot better decision in how the girls were dressed and presented themselves. I doubt you bothered to read my post other than the quote you tried to use but the fact is that the girls still could have danced to the song, still could have shown off their amazing moves (they were excellent dancers, I'm not arguing that), and still could have had lots of fun...in outfits that still looked good but without the really negative connotations.

The adults who put the kids into the outfits should have checked themselves.


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## Ilasir Maroa (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> Bodes ill for the entire education industry, in which doing things is seen as the way to learn. But the idea that these kids should dress up and dance because they don't understand the way prudes and lechers might view it is pretty weird.
> 
> They're little girls having fun. Anybody who wants to read more into it than that should check themselves.




No, Lin, they don't understand the song.  And while we're there, the original music video for that song was intended to be sexy, and it was.  This version, not so much.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

The negative connotations are in the minds of the beholders.

Seven year olds don't understand a lot of songs they sing and perform.  "Star Spangled Banner" for one.

Everybody has some reason that sounds good for flying off the handle and laying about bunch of grown-up guilt and leering on a bunch of kids dancing around putting on a show.


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## Ilasir Maroa (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> The negative connotations are in the minds of the beholders.
> 
> Seven year olds don't understand a lot of songs they sing and perform. "Star Spangled Banner" for one.
> 
> Everybody has some reason that sounds good for flying off the handle and laying about bunch of grown-up guilt and leering on a bunch of kids dancing around putting on a show.


 

I don't have any specific objections to that particular video, Lin, but you've got to draw the line somewhere. For some people, that video crossed it, for others, not.

If I had a daughter, would I let her perform that number? No. She could have just as much fun dancing in something else, _to_ something else. But can I do anything about whether other parents would let their kids be part of that act? No. Do I think I should? No. Would I prefer not to have to worry about it? Yes.


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## caelum (May 14, 2010)

Little girls are dancing like sluts.  That's fucked up.  Period.  They're allowed to dance, just in a more decent way; and not that it's their fault, but the adults' who decided: "Hey, six year old girls can bump and grind, too!"


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## darknite_johanne (May 14, 2010)

Oh man, kill the person who decided to have their kids do that in the first place. There's always someone with the big idea, and this time that someone has seriously f****ed up.


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## BitofanInkling (May 14, 2010)

Ew. 
I'm also confused by why their hair all matches.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

This is just one example. The only real argument against it would be that there are no effects from the cumulative exposure to this kind of thing. Foxee and I have already stated what those might be. That it's all harmless and that the people who think this is bad idea must have problems is pretty weak.

At the same time, the people with the lynch mob mentality or think this is all about pedophilia diminish and trivialize any legitimate argument.


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## seigfried007 (May 14, 2010)

I don't have a lynch mob mentality, but I'm still boggled by the stupidity that leads to "Let's have children do everything adults do! Isn't it cute!" The parents, with few exceptions that actually are perverts, are generally nice enough people who are just idiots who think it's all harmless fun and are the production of decades of "Dress them like adults because it's cute" mentality. In sizes beyond 4-5T, it's now easier to find children's clothes that look like adult clothes in miniature than all the frills and cutesy stuff.

"Little girls having fun" doesn't cut it. These children were more than likely practicing this piece for months before performing it. They've probably had years of training. That's not fun; that's lessons that parents pay for, uniforms they buy, studios they drive to. That's hours upon hours of work for the children that they coud have spent being children or learning how to dance to something else in something else from someone else who would have had the sense not to have small children grinding before a live audience.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

A lot of this is parents living vicariously through their children. Only these people just can't wait. 

It's a lot like the dads screaming at 6 and 7-year old kids at soccer games. Like the one who screamed at my daughter, "Nail her! Nail her. Why didn't nail her?!"


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## Sigg (May 14, 2010)

There was a comment on the link that struck me, 



> ...Perhaps those are the inappropriate elements in this presentation. But it would be hard to convince the dancers of that given the raucous shouts and applause their performance generated.


 
Isn't that really always the difficulty with little kids?  You say, "No, of course you can't do that!" and when they ask why all you can say is "You'll understand when you're older"  I've dealt with a lot of kids, but since they aren't mine I always have the option to just say, "ask mommy and daddy" haha, I'm evil


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

I love the assumption that this number was chosen by adults, rather than by the kids.   Evil adults trying to turn girls into precocious whores for the enjoyment of pedophiles and pervs.    
No doubt about it.

And nobody here has seen little girls, even younger than these, doing bumps and grinds and dressing up in short shorts.

well, no living in an Amish community, I'd suggest that those obsessed with denouncing the evils of the flesh in this video widen their experience.   Or start figuring out why little girls prancing around immediately leads them to thoughts of murder and arson.


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## Sigg (May 14, 2010)

lin you are probably the only one in this thread who is being absurd and unreasonable. Not because you have a differing point of view but because instead of actually reading what people are writing, you just keep putting words into peoples' mouths and making unwarranted personal attacks about their mental stability. You don't think it's inappropriate, fine, it's just a difference in opinion but quit making shit up, 

no one said anything about "Evil adults trying to turn girls into precocious whores for the enjoyment of pedophiles and pervs."
no one said anything about "denouncing the evils of the flesh in this video"
and it doesn't "immediately lead them to thoughts of murder and arson", it was just an emotional reaction to something they strongly disagree with.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

lin, you're still not addressing the how the cumulative affects of all the things like this affect children in the long run -- the things Foxee and I have mentioned.  It's not just this little dance routine. It's clothes, toys, TV, and movies etc. 

I'm around children of all ages. I know their parents and we talk. I've done a fair amount of reading on it. It's not all hysteria and moralizing.

If you want to deny the problems exists or consider the root causes fine. It's easier to call people prudes etc.

Again, it has little to with pedos and perves. People with informed opinions know better. Anyway, you've made up your mind and I've said my piece. So, later.


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## SevenWritez (May 14, 2010)

If the little girls were willing, and the parents were all right with the dance (the moves as well as the costumes), I don't see the issue. Both the parents and the children have the right to do as they please if they are both consenting, and if their agreed to act doesn't involve harming anyone else. That's just my two pennies (and of course, I'm sure some of the girls were forced into the dance by overbearing parents, but that's another story).

That said, if I had a daughter I would not let her participate in something such as this. My niece turns five years old in a few days, and likewise, if I saw her being entered into something of this nature, I would put my foot down.

But again, I don't see the problem if both child and parent are willing.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

> lin you are probably the only one in this thread who is being absurd and unreasonable.



Translation:  "you disagree with me".


> Again, it has little to with pedos and perves.


I'M not the one who invoked the pedos and pervs.  



> no one said anything about "Evil adults trying to turn girls into precocious whores for the enjoyment of pedophiles and pervs."


Actually, that HAS been said.  Look back.


> it doesn't "immediately lead them to thoughts of murder and arson", itwas just an emotional reaction to something they strongly disagreewith.



Ah,  I see.  They weren't led to these thoughts, just brought it up as an emotional reaction.    In a thread in which  I'M the one who's absurd and irrational?  Is that what you're saying?


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

Seven, then you aren't looking at the bigger picture. Those things have been addressed in previous posts. The kids don't know any better and seemingly, the parents don't either.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

The "cummulative effect" argument (which is not really an argument, but what logicians call a "propoganda technique") is BS.
You hear it a lot... "Okay, watching TV and playing video games and reading comics isn't BAD.  But kids might end up doing it all the time, which is bad.  So therefore it IS bad."  So find the people responsible and fire them or kill them or whatever.  

Not logic.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

lin, when I said this: 



> Again, it has little to with pedos and perves. People with informed opinions know better.



I was trying to seperate myself from those who think this -- thus making my argument more credible. This is the one point on which we more or less agree.


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## Sigg (May 14, 2010)

Wow lin, you can't be that thickheaded to not realize what you are doing, so I'm going to assume that you are purposely putting words in my mouth and making things up just to start a fight.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> The "cummulative effect" argument (which is not really an argument, but what logicians call a "propoganda technique") is BS.



Cumulative effects that result in:

Girls with body image issues that result in bulimia and anorexia and -- it's happening younger and younger, to pre-teen girls.

Younger and younger teens having sex before they are ready to deal with consequences.

If you want to believe that what they are exposed to at an early age has nothing to do with these -- fine. 

And I don't have a solution and I can't do anything outside of how I raise my children. But I can express my disgust with all of it and acknowledge the implications.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

If you really, seriously want to try to make the point that kids dancing leads to bulimia, go right ahead.
Don't be shocked if nobody takes it seriously.


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## Hawke (May 14, 2010)

My two cents: 

You know, I can’t help wondering whatever happened to morals and values and responsibility and protecting children when it’s the parents themselves who’ve paid for, supported, encouraged and allowed this class/troop/teacher to dress their kids up in this way and dance like this. 

I wouldn’t fire anyone, kill anyone or burn anyone’s house down. I also wouldn’t care who chose what. If it was my kid and my money, honey, I’d haul her out of that class and place her in a more respectable (wrong word choice, but I suppose it’ll do for now) one. But that might be just me.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

Early on I said I found it hard to believe that people freaking out over this dance routine have ever been around real kids in the real world much.

It seems like everytime I'd walk past the girls' bedroom or they'd have their pals over on weekends they'd be prancing around doing dances to their stupid music, bumping and grinding and slapping their butts.    Standing in formations doing dance routines of MTV.  Dressing up sexy and putting on make up.
And everybody I know has pretty much the same experience.  Girls just want to have fun.

The idea that these are some sort of sinful whore rags is absurd.  Compared to what?  Cheerleader oufits?  Bathing suits?  

I've really been scratching my head over this thing.  I have to assume that everybody here isn't really Amish or sterile or so drooling with lust they slaver it out over the slightest cute girl sighting they're trying to deny.

So...what?

The only thing I can come up with is a mob puritanism.   I think anybody who has posted here, if they'd been in that auridtorium, would have been clapping and laughing and in the spirit of it.

But somebody posts a video, and with a pejorative lead-in where if you don't get all Victorian and start calling for smiting you're a perv, and people weigh in with all this disapproval.

At least I hope that's what's going on.


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## Foxee (May 14, 2010)

You might figure out where we're coming from if you read our posts. I explained but you're more interested in your viewpoint than in discussion.


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## NathanBrazil (May 14, 2010)

I think this is the point that we give everybody clubs and then you can all beat the crap out of each other.  Whoever is left standing wins.


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## Hawke (May 14, 2010)

I do see your point, Lin. I really do. But to me, it's kinda like the difference between letting your little girl go swimming in a one piece suit, a two piece suit or a string bikini. There are limits. Seven-year-olds should not be wearing string bikinis, period. Do you know what I mean?


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

Wow. That is weird. Sexualizing children in this way is really sick. It's so overt and over the top, I am amazed parents let their children do this/take pleasure in the results. They have some great balance and moves but that isn't the point.


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## Blood (May 14, 2010)

*Consequences of the Sexualization of Young Girls *

  Psychology offers several theories to explain how the sexualization of girls and women could influence girls’ well-being. Ample evidence testing these theories indicates that sexualization has negative effects in a variety of domains, including cognitive functioning, physical and mental health, sexuality, and attitudes and beliefs.  Although most of these studies have been conducted on women in late adolescence (i.e., college age), findings are likely to generalize to younger adolescents and to girls, who may be even more strongly affected because their sense of self is still being formed.

_Cognitive and Emotional Consequences_

Cognitively, self-objectification has been repeatedly shown to detract from the ability to concentrate and focus one’s attention, thus leading to impaired performance on mental activities such as mathematical computations or logical reasoning (Frederickson, Roberts, Noll, Quinn, & Twenge, 1998; Gapinski, Brownell, & LaFrance, 2003; Hebl, King, & Lin, 2004). In other words, thinking about the body and comparing it to sexualized cultural ideals disrupted mental capacity. In the emotional domain, sexualization and objectification undermine confidence in and comfort with one’s own body, leading to a host of negative emotional consequences, such as shame, anxiety, and even self-disgust. The association between self-objectification and anxiety about appearance and feelings of shame has been found in adolescent girls (12–13-year-olds) (Slater & Tiggemann, 2002) as well as in adult women.

_Mental and Physical Health_

Research links sexualization with three of the most common mental health problems of girls and women: eating disorders, low self-esteem, and depression or depressed mood (Abramson & Valene, 1991; Durkin & Paxton, 2002; Harrison, 2000; Hofschire & Greenberg, 2001; Mills, Polivy, Herman, & Tiggemann, 2002; Stice, Schupak-Neuberg, Shaw, & Stein, 1994;Thomsen,Weber, & Brown, 2002; Ward, 2004). Several studies…

Complete article here: http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/girls/report.aspx?item=2


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

> Seven-year-olds should not be wearing string bikinis, period. Do you know what I mean?



Nope.   I think they should wear whatever the hell they feel like wearing.  Why should their comfort or weird kiddo fashion sense be determined by you?

I'll tell you what's perverted swimwear for little girls...having to wear tops to cover up their non-breasts.  Seems like that kind of pre-sexualizes them, in my book.    

In a general note on this stuff... anybody who's worried about somebody groping their little girls shouldn't worry about somebody who says they look cute bouncing around in shorts: they should worry about the priests and social workers and sin-decriers.  They're the ones dying to get their hands on something...and more likely to turn violent or abuse about it later.


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## NaClmine (May 14, 2010)

Imagine how much of a chapter we all could have written in our current manuscripts in lieu of reading this absurd thread.

The truth about this video is that different strokes are for different folks. Some people dress up 4 year-old daughters for "beauty" contests. Others scream, often including obscenities, at 8 year-old boys playing Pop Warner football, soccer or Little League baseball. Still other parents smoke cigarettes in front of their kids or fill them with crap fast food and let them watch TV every day until the kids are obese. Of course, many of those parents dismiss the fat as prepubescent bloat that will go away when they "get their periods". Point is, there are LOTS of things I might find irresponsible about some parents, but I'm not going to claim moral superiority over those other people with whom I don't share similar values. Bottom line, if I don't approve of the dance those little girls were trained to do, then MY kid would simply not be a part of the routine and I would explain my values to her.

Someone mentioned body image, suggesting that those girls might be perpetuating an unnatural standard of "thin" resulting in bulimia, anorexia or some other unhealthy mental health disorder. Those little girls are in outstanding physical health! It is impossible to perform and sustain the athletic requirements of that routine without hours and hours of practice, all of which is aerobic, strengthening and flexibility-enhancing. In their case, "thin" reflects outstanding physical conditioning, which, by the way, is a great message for all the obese youth here in the US. By the way, I did not see that routine as "sexual" in any way. I saw it as mimicry of just about every dance show and cheer-leading contest on TV today. Like Lin said, it's innocent little girls having fun.


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## Foxee (May 14, 2010)

That's a very broad tarred brush you're painting with. It's probably a better idea to keep the kids safe in the first place if you're so worried that the people who are actually trying to help kids are all such horrible human beings.


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## NaClmine (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> ... anybody who's worried about somebody groping their *little girls* shouldn't worry about somebody who says they look cute bouncing around in shorts: they should worry about the priests and social workers and sin-decriers. They're the ones dying to get their hands on something...and more likely to turn violent or abuse about it later.



lin - I think you're confused. Those pervs prey on little boys!  LOL


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> Nope.   I think they should wear whatever the hell they feel like wearing.  Why should their comfort or weird kiddo fashion sense be determined by you?



I wouldn't let a seven year-old wear something indecent. Adults don't want to look at that, and those that do are the kind of attention you certainly don't want, it's also completely wrong for children to develope such a warped worldview at that age that they need to be dressing up this way. It isn't just fashion, is it? Kids aren't as innocent as everybody would like to think, however, growing into maturity is a bit different to having it thrust onto you at too young an age by parents/teachers in such an orchestrated manner.



> Someone mentioned body image, suggesting that those girls might be  perpetuating an unnatural standard of "thin" resulting in bulimia,  anorexia or some other unhealthy mental health disorder. Those little  girls are in outstanding physical health! It is impossible to perform  and sustain the athletic requirements of that routine without hours and  hours of practice, all of which is aerobic, strengthening and  flexibility-enhancing. In their case, "thin" reflects outstanding  physical conditioning, which, by the way, is a great message for all the  obese youth here in the US.



While I agree that exercise for children is fantastic, what you tend to find is that those who train so hard from such a young age, tend to burn out before they're into their 20's, sometimes as early as late teens.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

I think that sums this discussion up as well as anything.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> If you really, seriously want to try to make the point that kids dancing leads to bulimia, go right ahead.
> Don't be shocked if nobody takes it seriously.



Heh. You've picked enough cherries in this thread to make a good sized pie.


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## Leyline (May 14, 2010)

Thought it was cute. Agree with lin.


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## Himani (May 14, 2010)

Sigg said:


> the reason it is inappropriate is because at that age they don't understand what it is they are immitating, but the adults that gave them the direction do.


 
THAT is what I find inappropriate, too. Yes, I see the arguments that the girls don't understand (or at least don't understand _fully_, because as someone else said, it's very naive to think they aren't internalizing the reactions they get from being dressed like that) and the dancing IS very impressive, especially if they are seven years old (I have to wonder how much they practiced and if they wanted to or if some adult wanted them to, but that's neither here or there).

The point is that they're children and they should act...well, like their age. In American society, children are expected to act like children. 

Somewhere an adult said, "OK, this is the costume you should wear. The one that shows a LOT of skin as you bend and gyrate."


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

> The point is that they're children and they should act...well, like their age.



Most people would tend to say they are acting their age.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> Most people would tend to say they are acting their age.



Most people? Really? How did arrive that conclusion? So  far, everyone I've shown it to thinks it's pretty weird. And surely, you didn't arrive at that from reading this thread. Oh well, I suppose your  guess is as good as mine.​


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## Sam (May 14, 2010)

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, nor am I going to comment on the morality of the video, but I will throw this hypothetical out there:

If it was a seven-year-old boy running around the stage with a plastic gun, wearing a pair of boxer shirts and a vest imitating John McClane, would anybody object?


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## moderan (May 14, 2010)

Yippee-ki-ay


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## Sam (May 14, 2010)

Just so everyone knows: I'm not saying what happened in this video is right or wrong. I invoke my right to stay schtum on the matter. Just putting this out there because I'm curious if parents would be more concerned about their daughters than their sons.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

Sam W said:


> If it was a seven-year-old boy running around the stage with a plastic gun, wearing a pair of boxer shirts and a vest imitating John McClane, would anybody object?



Sorry, not buying -- the apples and oranges, that is.

*EDIT:* Sam, I just saw your second post. I think I can answer that, but we're heading out for the evening. Later.


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

Sam W said:


> Just so everyone knows: I'm not saying what happened in this video is right or wrong. I invoke my right to stay schtum on the matter. Just putting this out there because I'm curious if parents would be more concerned about their daughters than their sons.


 
Yeah, the sexists.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

> So  far, everyone I've shown it to thinks it's pretty weird.



Well, I can't speak for the nature of your acquaintances, but it looks to me like this event is happening in an auditorium with many hundreds of people there.  And they seem to think it's okay and aren't getting all excited by these kids.
And I would assume, if I may, that most of them have kids that age.

I really don't think the hysterics here are the default for this and I'm some weirdo.  Quite the contrary.    God help you crypto-lechers if you happen to stumble into a little girls' ballet or gymnastics class.    Or their rooms when they're having fun dancing, as I've described.


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## Patrick (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> Well, I can't speak for the nature of your acquaintances, but it looks to me like this event is happening in an auditorium with many hundreds of people there.  And they seem to think it's okay and aren't getting all excited by these kids.
> And I would assume, if I may, that most of them have kids that age.
> 
> I really don't think the hysterics here are the default for this and I'm some weirdo.  Quite the contrary.    God help you crypto-lechers if you happen to stumble into a little girls' ballet or gymnastics class.    Or their rooms when they're having fun dancing, as I've described.


 

It isn't anything like as refined or classical as ballet or gymnastics (neither of which have sexual undercurrents) and it's also not girls dancing around in their room, oblivious to the world outside. The major concern is the way those 7 year olds are being sexualised. I don't know how people could miss that. Talk about the elephant in the room.


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## JosephB (May 14, 2010)

> Well, I can't speak for the nature of your acquaintances, but it looks to me like this event is happening in an auditorium with many hundreds of people there.


That's like preaching to choir. 

I for one, am not being hysterical about it. And I'm not talking about this one dance either -- as you well know. It's symptomatic of a bigger problem, which some of us have already addressed. 

I don't think you're a weirdo, nor do I think the adults who initiated this are weirdos -- I just think they're misguided.


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## Blood (May 14, 2010)

lin said:


> Well, I can't speak for the nature of your acquaintances, but* it looks to me like this event is happening in an auditorium with many hundreds of people there.  And they seem to think it's okay and aren't getting all excited by these kids*.
> And I would assume, if I may, that most of them have kids that age.
> 
> I really don't think the hysterics here are the default for this and I'm some weirdo.  Quite the contrary.    God help you crypto-lechers if you happen to stumble into a little girls' ballet or gymnastics class.    Or their rooms when they're having fun dancing, as I've
> described.


Really?  I guess you missed this reverse angle.







​


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

> The major concern is the way those 7 year olds are being sexualised.



That's my concern, as well.  And it really creeps me out to sit here and watch you people do it.


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## Linton Robinson (May 14, 2010)

Blood, you're a pimp's pimp and a true evil genius.


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