# Is this a mean/shallow thing to say?



## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 5, 2012)

I was talking to my brother about a pair of girls we saw at school. I always thought those girls were really beautiful and he would be interested in them. But when he saw them he was like, "Really? I am insulted that you think I would be attracted to someone like that."

So of course I was really surprised. I mean these girls are not perfect tens but they're really cute, I think. The thing is, I have now realized that my brother is only interested in perfect tens.

Also, these girls were Arab. So when I asked him what he thought about Arab girls in general he was like, "I don't think they're attractive at all."

It's hard not to be hurt by something like that. I mean, I know everyone is entitled to their opinions, but my God. It seriously crushed my self esteem. 

What do you guys think? Is this a mean/shallow thing to say, or is it okay for him to say and think stuff like that?


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## Kyle R (Jan 5, 2012)

I think Arab girls are hot.

Just sayin' :friendly_wink:

And yeah, he could have chosen his words a bit better. But, he was being honest. It's his personal opinion, and opinions vary from person to person.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 5, 2012)

Lol, thanks Kyle. That's not really what upsets me. I've never had low self confidence, but jeez, when he just said it straight out like that...I was crushed. And mad. I can not believe I'm related to such a shallow person. It's just one of the many things that makes me and my brother so different.


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## felix (Jan 5, 2012)

Well I don't think that we can come right out and condemn him because he's your brother, but, you know, what an arse. 

Perhaps you should bring it up some time; it's entirely possible that he merely misspoke. But if that's what he meant then he's expressing his opinion, but yes, rather shallow at that.


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## Kyle R (Jan 5, 2012)

Thinking only about looks is a bit shallow, but interestingly, it happens in nature, too.

I was watching a special about the colorful birds of New Guinea last night, and the males spend all their time puffing out their feathers and dancing, trying to impress the females. The females only mate with the most beautiful males (those shallow sluts!).

As far as human males go, I believe our preferences for what we find attractive is as much nature as it is nurture.. and the "nurture" in this case, is societal, and cultural.

What's viewed as attractive changes drastically between ethnicities and regions.. and even, between individuals. Even age changes things! I used to hate tomatoes as a child. Now I love them.

Perhaps, though, you were misunderstanding him, and he was saying something of a different subtext. "attracted to someone _like that_" could mean many things, not just physically.

*shrugs* : )


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 5, 2012)

Perhaps, though I'm pretty sure he meant what he said.


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## felix (Jan 5, 2012)

Perhaps you were inadvertently pointing to an incredibly large and hairy man called 'Oppey'? 

I wouldn't fret. If he wasn't attracted to them then, well, everybody is turned off by something. Perhaps there was merely something about them; their hair or the way that they were interacting with each other or their height or build, or the fact that they weren't clad in spandex, or whatever. 

What got to you more, him saying that or them being Arab? If it was his words then...well yeah, shallow people exist, that doesn't mean that he means bad by it. It if was their race then I highly doubt that he meant it in a racist fashion.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 5, 2012)

I know he doesn't think ALL Arab chicks are ugly. There was this one Palestinian chick he saw that totally blew his mind. Like I said - a perfect ten. I think what gets to me the most is, for him, it seems like she has to be a perfect ten, or he won't be into her at all. I know it's horrible to say that about my brother, but that's what he makes me think when he acts like that. You know once he actually said, verbatim, "If she's darker than you, I don't want her."

Does personality count for nothing? If he sees an average looking girl, will he not stop to discover the potential there just because she is not perfect?


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## Dramatism (Jan 5, 2012)

Eh, I think many of us are shallow like that but we just don't say it quite like that, or we try to have a more open mind about people's looks and nationalities.  Some people just like what they like, end of story.  Nothing unusual about that, he just had to blurt out his opinion in an unkind way.


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## felix (Jan 5, 2012)

True. 

Maybe we should ask what he's like out of ten? As a general rule two's end up with two's, seven's with sevens, ten's with ten's, in biological terms. 

If he's a ten then it's no different for him to want a perfect ten that for an average five to look for an 'ordinary pretty gal', which wouldn't be looked badly upon at all.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 5, 2012)

Yeah, my brother's never really been one of the sensitive type. Yes I agree, we're all shallow in our own ways, though I don't know how many of us are shallow to that extent.


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## alanmt (Jan 5, 2012)

so is he a ten?  or just a guy with unrealistic expectations?  If you want to give him an object lesson, next time you see a girl he thinks would be a perfect ten, say "Why would a girl like that wanna be with you?"


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 5, 2012)

Felix, sorry I didn't see your response. 

To answer both alanmt and Felix, my brother is an attractive guy, but then again, people have told me I'm too generous. Then again, lots of people say he's attractive. And I've seen the way some girls act around him - I feel embarrassed for them. So yeah, I'd say he's pretty high on the scale.

EDIT: Again, it's not about whether he's good enough for a ten or if a six or whatever is good enough for him. I just wish he was more open to the possibilities.


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## BabaYaga (Jan 6, 2012)

Is he a young guy by any chance? I think a lot of guys will go through their teens and their twenties imagining that Wonder Woman is going to swoop down and take him to hot-chick heaven, and that once they're there all they'll do is drink beer, watch sport and have wet T-shirt competitions. I think some guys never stop thinking that. 

You know, probably when he does meet the girl of his dreams, she's not going to be wearing spandex- as Felix said- or have her hair strategically styled and blown back by an invisible fan. He might not even like her when he meets her, but as he gets to know her, she'll become a 10 in his eyes. I know it sounds corny, but how often have you been wildly attracted to someone, only to talk to them and find out they're into 'Twilight' or something, versus the times you've overlooked someone because of their appearance- only to later realise that you are, in fact, kindred spirits?

Yes, what he said was shallow and as his sister, you're right to be PO'd with him- in fact it's your job. But I'm sure, in time, he'll surprise you by bringing home a true beauty


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## Rustgold (Jan 6, 2012)

Maybe your donkeybackside of a brother will become less of a donkey with time, or maybe not.

But I personally don't see Arab or Asian girls as attractive,the attraction simply isn't there.  It doesn't mean I don't see a Arab or Asian woman's worth as human beings, just that I'm not attracted to them.  I think half of your brother's problem is that his head is ruled by a little member, and he disrespects the value of women for any other attribute or purpose full stop.  He doesn't need to be open for a broader range of possible partners if the attraction isn't there, however he doesn't seem to respect these women for other qualities.  He needs to learn that there's more to a female than what his little member tells him.


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## Bloggsworth (Jan 6, 2012)

Sorry - What's your problem? You're telling us that you are upset because someone doesn't have the same taste as you and said so - I fear for your mental state if you are so easily upset. Strikes me that they are lucky not to be fancied by your brother; have you considered the possibility that he said it _because_ he was your brother and winding you up? I don't like girls who have green streaks in their hair or ironmongery about their face, not sure that I'd like to kiss a woman with the bolt from Boris Karloff's neck through her tongue either, am I reprehensible even though others might find it attractive?


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## philistine (Jan 6, 2012)

The 'really?' he uttered wasn't offensive, but the resulting declaration was.


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## Walkio (Jan 6, 2012)

Seems to me that people are most attracted to people of the same ethnicity. Do you think that's true? This has nothing to do with good-partner material because, as has already been stated, what do looks matter in the long run? Nada. However, I'm white, and I tend to find white girls the most physically attractive. I believe black girls probably find black guys more attractive than white guys. Do you agree?


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## philistine (Jan 6, 2012)

Walkio said:


> Seems to me that people are most attracted to people of the same ethnicity. Do you think that's true? This has nothing to do with good-partner material because, as has already been stated, what do looks matter in the long run? Nada. However, I'm white, and I tend to find white girls the most physically attractive. I believe black girls probably find black guys more attractive than white guys. Do you agree?



In the words of Giacomo Casanova:

_sublata lucerna nulluem discrimen inter feminas
_
Or, 'when the lamp is extinguished, all women are the same'.


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## Walkio (Jan 6, 2012)

philistine said:


> 'when the lamp is extinguished, all women are the same'.



True enough!


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## The Backward OX (Jan 6, 2012)

Someone else said "All cats are grey in the dark."


I'm with Bloggy: it could have been a wind-up.


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## Bloggsworth (Jan 6, 2012)

Walkio said:


> Seems to me that people are most attracted to people of the same ethnicity. Do you think that's true? This has nothing to do with good-partner material because, as has already been stated, what do looks matter in the long run? Nada. However, I'm white, and I tend to find white girls the most physically attractive. I believe black girls probably find black guys more attractive than white guys. Do you agree?



Not I - I am attracted to all sorts of women, and they don't have to be "nominally" attractive; there is a very attractive Malaysian pharmacist in my local chemists, and my first love was Marina, who would turn up to primary school wearing a beautiful blue sari with a cute red dot on her forehead- I have been touched by women of all races and colours (not literally, unfortunately), I love brunettes but am married to a blonde; character won out over appearance...


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## shadowwalker (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't see anything really shallow about it. People are attracted to each other first and foremost by physical appearance. Unless they're thrown together by work or school or some other 'unusual' circumstance occurs, most people will not engage in getting to know others that they are not attracted to physically. It's just like anything else - if you don't find it attractive, whether it's a person or a couch, you're not going to be interested in it unless something else about it catches your attention.


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## Bruno Spatola (Jan 6, 2012)

The fact he didn't find these particular girls attractive isn't shallow at all, I don't think -- you can't help how you feel, but to say you simply "don't find Arabic girls very attractive" is a bit silly (IMO!). Then again, if you restrict the conversation to appearance only, it's hard _not_ to say something that could be considered shallow . . . maybe that's just me. I'll grudgingly say I'm not fond of blonde hair, piercings, or excessive make-up when in that situation.

Did these girls resemble you by any chance, Dream? If so, maybe he was uncomfortable saying he was attracted to someone who looked like you. I remember once my sister asked me if I thought she was pretty; I was really freaked out by the question and just didn't know what to say. She kept asking and asking and asking and, eventually, I ended up saying "no". She didn't talk to me for a week. A while after that, she asked me if I thought someone else was pretty (this person happened to look very, very similar to her). I said "no" again. She didn't talk to me for a week.


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## alanmt (Jan 6, 2012)

BabaYaga said:


> how often have you been wildly attracted to someone, only to talk to them and find out they're into 'Twilight' or something



Too many.  Which is why I am ready to rip off my shirt, revealing my rockhard pecs, if I find out they are for Jacob, and carry a spray-on bottle of Insta-Pale & Glittery if they like Edward.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 6, 2012)

Dreamworx95 said:


> Does personality count for nothing? If he sees an average looking girl, will he not stop to discover the potential there just because she is not perfect?



When you're just looking at people from a distance? Nope, it doesn't make a bit of difference.  There are too many people in the world to "stop to discover the potential there" for each one of them.  What if there isn't any potential? When you're searching for hidden gems, you're going to have to dig through a lot of boring rocks first.  For most people, it's not worth the effort.

And, like it or not, everyone has personal preference.  I'm not attracted to tall women, for example.  So what? Sure, it's a bit shocking to hear that sort of thing so bluntly, but if it's the truth, how are you going to hold it against him? Besides, I'm sure if you think hard enough (or perhaps not that hard at all, who knows?), you'll find that you have personal preference just the same.  Who are you to be offended, just because he voiced the same sort of preference all humans have?

And that's not to say that tall women (or Arabs or Asians or redheads or whatever) can't be attractive.  There are examples of extreme beauty among those we wouldn't typically be attracted to and examples of extreme ugliness among those we would.  That's how the world works.  People are different.  It's why I can say, "Well, tall women don't really do it for me but THAT ONE is a knockout" and why your brother can say "that Palestinian girl is really hot but most aren't to me."  Exceptions exist.  That's life.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm not really upset about it anymore. Seems kinda stupid now, but I've always been a little sensitive.


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## ScientistAsHero (Jan 8, 2012)

I don't think it's stupid to question it. I don't guess there's really much you could say to your brother though -- if he's not attracted to a certain ethnicity he's just not attracted to them. I do find your brother's comment to be somewhat generalizing, though. For instance, I too am by large mostly attracted to white females. But that's not to say that there have never been Asian, black or Arabic girls that I've found attractive. And I would be totally open to the possibility of having a relationship with a girl of a different ethnicity than me. So just because I've never dated an Asian girl doesn't mean that I would at all say that I don't find Asian girls attractive.


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## Rustgold (Jan 8, 2012)

Isn't anybody bothered with him seeming to view women as nothing but sexual objects?


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## shadowwalker (Jan 8, 2012)

Rustgold said:


> Isn't anybody bothered with him seeming to view women as nothing but sexual objects?



Not really. It seemed more like a casual conversation, not a dialect on his sexual philosophy. :wink:


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## Terry D (Jan 8, 2012)

Dreamworx95 said:


> I was talking to my brother about a pair of girls we saw at school. I always thought those girls were really beautiful and he would be interested in them. But when he saw them he was like, "Really? I am insulted that you think I would be attracted to someone like that."
> 
> So of course I was really surprised. I mean these girls are not perfect tens but they're really cute, I think. The thing is, I have now realized that my brother is only interested in perfect tens.



Based on this I would say that you only pointed them out to him because of their looks.  Then you were shocked when his opinion of their appearance didn't fit yours?  Would you have pointed them out to him if they were 'fives'?  Your original motivation for pointing them out didn't have anything to do with their personality, so why should his response?  As for his tastes regarding their ethnicity, how is that different from someone preferring blondes to red-heads, or being more physically attracted to tall rather than short?


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## dale (Jan 8, 2012)

Terry D said:


> As for his tastes regarding their ethnicity, how is that different from someone preferring blondes to red-heads, or being more physically attracted to tall rather than short?


that's the way i see. it. most men has a certain "type" he's attracted to or not attracted to. i'm sure most women do, too.
of course, it doesn't mean women outside my "type" are necessarily ugly or anything. people have certain foods that aren't appealing
to them and dislike certain styles of cars and clothes, also. just a matter of individual tastes, really.


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## Samantha_CRD (Jan 8, 2012)

The neat and interesting thing about people is that they are never going to think the way that _you_ want them to think. I can definitely understand why your brother being close minded would upset you, but rather then letting this get under your skin, learn from it. Trying to formulate a is this "wrong" or "right" conclusion regarding someones personal opinion will never work. There are too many inconsistencies in the way we think. I love being faced with an opinion i don't necessarily agree with, because it gives me an opportunity to develop my own rationalization on something i may or may not have ever thought of before, it helps me develop my character. The fact that _you_ believe the remark was shallow, and close minded, just highlights an important part of your personality and what you value.


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## JosephB (Jan 9, 2012)

DW, I don't know how old your brother is, but I remember at my 10 year high school reunion, all the guys were surprised by how good looking the women were. Sure -- some of girls had really blossomed, but I think most of it had to do with the men maturing -- and getting beyond a very narrow and more stereotypical idea of beauty. I think it's just part of growing up. And for all the women who were wishing that the hot girls in high school were now all fat and gross looking -- nope. Most of them were still hot. Oh well.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 9, 2012)

Rustgold said:


> Isn't anybody bothered with him seeming to view women as nothing but sexual objects?



In this case? Nope.

Terry D mentioned that the original question was a prompt based on attractiveness, and he's right.  Given that context, the brother's response is both rational and acceptable.  If I was watching a football game and said, "Man, that guy can RUN," would you jump on me for ignoring the player's personality? For viewing him as nothing but an athlete? Of course not.

When a conversation is begun in narrow terms, you can't fault the participants for remaining in those narrow terms.


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## MeeQ (Jan 9, 2012)

We all have our specific tastes and turnoffs. (Some much more specific than others… people with low self esteem for instance) 
I'm a behemoth. A serious giant amongst ants, and if a lady ever manages to shoot towards the sky better than I, I feel ill inside and wish only horrible things on her. Because just that one aspect changes my whole outlook, the very fabric of attractiveness goes out the window and combusts. 

Same goes with many other things, such as weight (too thin is creepy, too fat is vomit inducing) the bridge of their nose, foot size, leg width, freckles, eye colour, hygiene, soft skin, plump lips, ethnicity, accent, verbal assault tactics, style, musical preference, food allergies, movie knowledge, critical thinking (excluding and limited only to my own ego) Athletasism, maternal instinct, blonde, blonde, blonde (occasionally strawberry blonde) ability to manipulate, lack of ability to defend against manipulation, etc. 

These are just a few of my very strict breeding choices. Obviously this is void when I’m inebriated, though I have found my basic level on ‘standard’ (drunk persona) does hold true to many of my sober ideologies. Maybe I too am blunt and brash for being so picky, maybe I’m even a pompous-douche bag-loathsome-wanker with no care in the world for himself? 

But is not our lineage the most important part of life itself? To breed your genes with another of your caliber? The other half of your child is this individual you have chosen (and resipricated) Do you not want this child to have the best potential of all those features both exterior and interior? Maybe I’m ignorant, or maybe, just maybe I’m actually seeing much further than the rest of ant nest that is this planet.

P.S Only one here really knows me enough both physically and mentally to really judge. The rest of you are permitted to weep, crossing fingers for Schrödinger’s cat.


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## Kevin (Jan 10, 2012)

philistine said:


> In the words of Giacomo Casanova:
> 
> _sublata lucerna nulluem discrimen inter feminas
> _
> Or, 'when the lamp is extinguished, all women are the same'.



Does performance count for nothing?


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## Kevin (Jan 10, 2012)

Dreamworx95 said:


> I'm not really upset about it anymore. Seems kinda stupid now, but I've always been a little sensitive.



Oh Adriana, A-don shall ever seek to soothe those turbulent waters with his throw net. (lol)


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## philistine (Jan 10, 2012)

Kevin said:


> Does performance count for nothing?



Most men don't really care. Even the worst sex (not including oral) isn't necessarily _bad, _​but it can be worse than the standard to which you are normally used to experiencing.


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## MeeQ (Jan 10, 2012)

philistine said:


> Most men don't really care. Even the worst sex (not including oral) isn't necessarily bad, ​but it can be worse than the standard to which you are normally used to experiencing.



I disagree on every level. There is many 'types' of sex. Fun, energetic, passionate, quick, punishing, bloody, crowded, filmed, disappointing, star fish, exhausting, menial, scheduled, timed, cascading, multi-tasking, leathered, confined, awkward, intoxicating, relentless, sporty, water bed, bunnies, gold, the moon, Bob Saget, chocolate… err. And of all these varieties can both 'good' and 'bad' sex be had by both parties or ‘The’ party (depending on your specific encounter)

I find you get out what you put in; the literal included. Each to their own and all that, but I think people are just border line moronic with a dash of ‘I hate you’. Boo hoo.


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 10, 2012)

Lol, now this conversation has gotten interesting.


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## JosephB (Jan 10, 2012)

Well, that's a matter of opinion. As my mamma says, some things are for talkin' -- and some things are for doin.'


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## Kyle R (Jan 10, 2012)

Dreamworx95 said:


> [strike]Lol, now this conversation has gotten interesting.[/strike] Sex? Did somebody mention sex?



\\/


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## Deleted member 33527 (Jan 10, 2012)

Big LOL.


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## Rustgold (Jan 10, 2012)

Just gimme the chocolate.


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## SubjectWhat (Jan 11, 2012)

Dreamworx95,

When he said "someone like that", are you sure "like that" = Arab? _...Maybe you didn't mean to imply that, and you were just setting up the story, but I can't help but include it as part of the "I don't think they're attractive at all" comment (and your question as it whether or not it was rude/mean). '

_I don't know your brother, obviously, but the idea of a guy (I'm assuming high school age range?) feeling insulted that his sibling or friend would think he'd be attracted to a person, strictly due to their being of a certain ethnicity... feels very off. I guess it would make sense if he has specifically expressed a disinterest in dating Arab girls, or a desire to date "non Arab girls", in which case the feeling insulted would be due to feeling his statements (of interests)—his (although to a relatively small extent) "sharing a part of his private inner world to a trusted person"--were not heard, considered, respected, etc. Well, it'd make more sense... saying "a person like that", even in this scenario, doesn't fit, to me.

As far as I know, when someone says "someone like that", as a negative, it refers to (someone who engages in) certain behaviors (and/or has certain attitudes, interests, etc.). Is it possible their "fashion sense"/style of dress/clothes_ (and maybe the way they were behaving, the activity they were engaging in and/or the social group they were interacting with)_ could be taken as a sign of (someone with) interests, attitudes and goals_ (that are, taken together, markedly)_ incompatible with those of your brother? 

To clarify, when I say "could be taken", I don't mean _you_ could have seen it that _(as if you would have if you were more thoughtful about it)_, I mean could be taken that way by someone 
A) with your brother's 
"traits"_ (level of sociability--particularly towards "unknowns", introversion/extroversion, intelligence, attitude/mood--particularly while at school)_,
 "social status"/"group affiliation", 
interests and attitudes

and

B)who is being, at least in certain moments,  very quick to judge the "kind of person" one is, solely from seeing them for a moment (as he did those girls).

A lot of people in high school are confident that they know a person strictly by their affiliation with social groups or clubs, activities, manner of dress, etc. Maybe your brother is relatively thoughtful and shy and has some "harsh feelings" towards "Popular" people (to which he categorized the two girls, based on a clear effort_--and from that, seemingly an emphasis, or focus--_they've made on/to their looks, to "dress to impress", with make-up, expensive clothes, jewelry, accessories, etc)? 

Of course not all "Popular People" are only interested in, respectful of and/or attracted to other "Popular People" _(and rarely if ever are any of them accurately described strictly by a superficial notion of a "Popular person")_, but in high school a lot of people interpret and judge according to that bias. Most ought to know better, but in high school one's ego is a big deal, and "understanding" prior misunderstandings and conflicts with people based on their being of a category of "bad" people, with "bad qualities" _(as well as excusing an interest in one of them but a hesitation or fear to approach due to uncertainty...from shyness, feeling your friends wouldn't support it, whatever...) _is a very convenient way to not deal with unknown, unpredictable (potentially hurtful or embarrassing) states of mind (from/occurring in/with unhabitual situations), by ensuring yourself it's "not (right for) you". 

So yeah, sorry for all those words... but I can't help but think something like that was at work when your brother said that. 

You then asked if he finds Arab girls attractive, and though he said no, I don't think that means that was the issue.

I think it was a little mean or rude of him to say he felt insulted you would think that... well, I do and I don't. Maybe he was genuinely insulted, and felt you insulted him, so I don't know if I'd call that mean or rude, as he was expressing how he actually felt, just to let you know he felt that way... but at the same time I feel like he should have known you didn't mean anything bad by it. Guys can be sensitive about stuff at times...

As for his statement that he doesn't think Arab girls are attractive at all. Eh, wouldn't call it rude or mean. Perhaps insensitive... I'm sure the basic meaning was that he doesn't find them attractive (is not attracted to them), and he just expressed it as an objective thing because high school guys do that (to try to sound assured or knowing or right or whatever). 

Honestly, I'm not attracted to blond women with blue eyes (at least most blue eyes... there are some distinct features of blue eyes that have been an exception)... blonde with brown eyes is fine. The bigger issue is the blue eyes. All the women in my immediate family have blue eyes. My mom and sisters were blue eyed blondes. I imagine for whatever reason I'm not attracted to girls that have features I identify with my mom and/or sister on some instinctual level. Maybe it's the same with your brother? (I assume he's a biological sibling).


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