# Does anyone here actually make a living from writing books?



## Johnny (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm just wondering. I'm about to finish my first novel and really would like to start a career as an author (Maybe a screenwriter someday). I understand how cutthroat and competitive this industry is and that it's not easy to make a real living. Has anyone here done it/still do it? Make enough from advances and royalties to live I mean. I'm just curious and obviously won't be quitting my day job for a while.


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## bookmasta (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm not sure that publishing is the right place for this topic, but yes, there are those on these forums who have made a living in writing, whether freelance or by journalism. I'm afraid there are only 10,000 roughly worldwide who make their living solely by writing fiction, and to be an author one day seems to be the aspiration of everyone who picks up a pen and or has the ambition to write. It takes years, if not decades to scratch out a living writing. Let me put it like this, there is a reason why the New York Times up and coming author list is 40 and under.


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## Elvenswordsman (Dec 16, 2014)

From my understanding, most "Full-Time" authors are people who wrote as a hobby, got picked up, and went from there. I don't think many people set out looking to be an author and end up becoming one.


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## Plasticweld (Dec 16, 2014)

I interviewed Peter Parnall this fall, he has written, co written or illustrated 85 books  He started out in advertising and branched out into writing to make more money.  He knew some people in publishing and basically had a few good breaks, he told a great story about the whole process.  He has lots of talent.  He has made millions, he would also say that he is part of the 2 percent who make a living writing


If your character is going to be believable you just have to figure that he is in the minority.  I also attribute a lot of Peter's success to the fact that he is an extrovert and a amazing story teller. his speaking fee 30 years ago was 4 grand for a couple of hours.

I would ask is your writer an introvert or extrovert? We did a poll here awhile ago and more than 90 percent of the writers here were introverts.


I doubt I would use the word cut throat after speaking with him.  He has just finished what I considered one of his best books, he was not headed to the publisher, he said he did not have the energy to promote the book.  In his words being a writer and being successful is all about salesmanship


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## Sam (Dec 17, 2014)

I currently make a living from writing, but through both selling my work and teaching others how to write.


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## Riis Marshall (Dec 17, 2014)

Hello Johnny

For what it's worth:

A few years ago Fender conducted a study and concluded out of every 88,000 guitars they made, one earned a living for somebody. Interesting.

Another set of statistics I came across a couple of years later are these: For every 100 people who sit down to write a book, one completes it. For every 100 books completed, one is published. A publisher only expects to make a profit on one out of eight books published. That's 1:80,000 that compares closely with Fender's 1:88,000.

And please, don't come back asking for my sources for these numbers because I won't be able to answer you. My point is to my thinking the fact these two ratios are rather close might be something more than a coincidence. If you did a study of race-car drivers, film actors, painters or ballet dancers, you might come up with similar numbers.

So, my conclusion is: yes you can make a living writing books. Frederick Forsyth, Ian Rankin, Robert Ludlum, Barbera Taylor Bradford, Agatha Christie, Robert Harris, P.D.James and a couple of thousand others you might name are doing - or did - very nicely writing books. Just as David Gilmour, Brian May, Eric Clapton, Nokie Edwards and a couple thousand others...etc...playing guitars.

Pay your dues, practise, practise, practise, live and breathe writing, day in and day out, to the exclusion of almost everything else and I'm sure you can make not only a decent but possibly even a spectacular living writing.

P.D.James wasn't born knowing how to write great fiction any more than David Gilmour was born knowing how to play the guitar. They were at some point in their lives just where you and I are with our writing.

So, figure out what you want from your writing. Is it to supplement your day job? Is it to make a comfortable living? Is it to become fabulously wealthy. Decide, then lay out a plan and go for it.

Then answer this question: just how hungry are you, just how badly do you want to achieve the goal you have set yourself?

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Terry D (Dec 17, 2014)

It's smart to keep expectations reasonable, but set your goals high. If you want to be the next Stephen King, think like the next King. Of course King spent years working two jobs and writing in the laundry room.


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## Riis Marshall (Dec 18, 2014)

Hello Terry

Precisely. Set your target and go for it.

Google Reinhold Messner and Hermann Buhl for a couple of examples of what human beings are capable of if they are prepared to make a total commitment.

I read somewhere not too long ago John Coltrane was known to fall asleep in bed playing his saxophone. Commitment.

Ask anybody you know who has climbed at Cooper's Rocks in West Virginia whether they have done 'Motorcycle'. Commitment.

King also honed his skills writing short stories; _The Reach_ is one of my all-time favourites. Way back in the days of iron men and wooden ships the weekly and monthly magazines were hungry for short stories so a fledgling author might practise the craft and earn a bit while doing it. I don't think that's possible these days.

So, yes, keep the day job and write at night while reaching for the stars.

@Plasticweld: I agree. I think some salesmanship and commercial acumen are necessary but you don't need to be a cutthroat to make the grade. I know a man who at last meeting had banked something over £40,000,000 and as far as I know is still a very nice guy delivering value for money.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## Jared77 (Dec 20, 2014)

I just read King's book "On Writing."  He wrote and wrote and wrote for years even as a teenager improving his craft.  He kept a spike in his room where he stuck each rejection letter he got.  By the time he published Carrie, he had written maybe hundreds(?) of short stories, and even a couple of other novels that never saw the light of day.  King pleads with us: "Don't write for money. Write because you love writing."  

But I'm where you are - I want to make a living writing too.  We need to keep honing our craft so that our writing is the best it can be.  And to keep writing because we have to, because you know, writers write.


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## Morkonan (Dec 20, 2014)

Just a note: Some "statistics" aren't "statistics", they're wild guesses.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-communication/writers-and-authors.htm

In the US, as of 2012, over 129,000 people were employed under the classification of "writers and authors." That's just the USA. Not all of them made a living as a Fiction novelist, that's true. But, I would hope that there were more than ten percent of this number around the world that made a living at writing fiction...  

"About two-thirds of writers and authors are self-employed.." in the US. That's a nicely sized number, probably larger than a football stadium's worth.

Some of these are going to be bleed-over from industry segments, so not all of these self-employed "writers and authors" are going to be cranking out ink for food. But, a good many probably will do that. If we just take the number of Writers and Authors in the Arts and Entertainment sector, we'd get around 5000 in 2012. That's a small number, but not terribly small. A great many specialty industries have such small numbers of specialized professionals. The good thing about that is that everyone knows each other. The bad thing about that is that everyone knows each other....


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## JDCrow (Dec 21, 2014)

There has to be a way though to get a good living writing - I mean it is a craft after-all, and all craftsmen take many years to perfect their skill.


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## Plasticweld (Dec 21, 2014)

How many painting or sculptures do you own? 


I personally think there are more writers working in sales making a living than writing for entertainment purposes. Just as there are more house painters making a living than artists doing a canvas, more masons making a living laying block, than  someone making something  nice to look at carved in stone. 


I am at best a hack writer, yet I have skills good enough to make a living in sales doing it.


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## Bishop (Dec 22, 2014)

Riis Marshall said:


> A few years ago Fender conducted a study and concluded out of every 88,000 guitars they made, one earned a living for somebody. Interesting.



This ratio is much higher for quality guitar makers, like Gibson.

That's right, Fender. You've been BISHOPED.

irate:


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## Morkonan (Dec 22, 2014)

Bishop said:


> This ratio is much higher for quality guitar makers, like Gibson.
> 
> That's right, Fender. You've been BISHOPED.
> 
> irate:



Oh... slam... 

+1 Internet Cool Points, for you. 


On the broader subject, "Writing" as a career choice can involve so many different tasks that, surely, one can find something worthy of being paid for. I've written countless bits of fluff, from marketing gimmicks and ad-copy to technical crap that only five people on the planet, apparently, can understand and actually _like_ to read... 

In my opinion, a true Writer, worthy of the capital "W", writes what needs to be written. They are prepared to write anything, as their calling is, above all things, communication. A good Writer, in my opinion, can write anything that needs to be written, no matter what it is. All they need is a sufficient understanding of the subject or the ability to "fake it" long enough to crank out the necessary words that successfully accomplish the task in front of them. It doesn't matter if it's a fictional story or the instructions on a medicine-bottle - For those truly gifted few, there will always be a paying job.

(On a related note, more journalists need to think of themselves as "writers." Every day, I check various news sites. Every day, I find errors and grammatical gibberish that serve as evidence for this lack of proper dedication. And, these people get _paid_ to write this stuff! A Writer should be able to make their editor's head spin with praise. I guess back in the days of print, when papers and magazines represented more durable forms of media than the 'net, editors were a bit more attentive.)


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## DB17 (Feb 8, 2015)

Sure, hacks like James Patterson, and people like John Grisham and KK Dowling. Patterson is advertising his books on TV now, dressed up funny clothes. He's all over TV, hawking two kid's books, and his latest trashy novel about Las Vegas.


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## A_Jones (Feb 8, 2015)

I would just like to say that I am currently trending on 7 ya writers right now, and 4 out of the seven went to school for writing or english.  One was a vet from germany. And one went to business school. (there is a funny blerb in the back of his book where he writes about how his text books for business class might as well have been fiction.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting.   I belive 5 of the 7 are best sellers.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and three are under the age of 40


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