# Kerouac



## Hoot08 (Mar 19, 2009)

Since his birthday was a few days ago, I decided to look back into one of my favorite authors. I don't whether it's because I'm drunk, but I'm genuinely moved by the readings of Jack Kerouac. Not only his readings but his writings of course. I am just amazed by how real it all is. Through all I have read nothing has touched me the way Kerouac's work has and I firmly believe his work should be labled as classic, especially On the Road, The Big Sur, and The Town and the City. His prose can be poetic at times and still be simple and homespun. He will forever be a legend in American Literature.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 20, 2009)

Interesting you bring this up now.  I was planning on watching this documentary on him tonight.

WHAT HAPPENED TO KEROUAC? - Google Video

I enjoyed On the Road, but after reading some thoughts from people on this board, I decided to read some of his other stuff with a more critical eye.  "Over-rated" is the best way I can describe him.  When reading "And The Hippos Boiled In Their Tanks" which he co-wrote with Burroughs, it's obvious how much Jack pales in comparison.  Burroughs is one of the greats, so maybe it's not fair to compare them, but Kerouac just doesn't impress me outside On the Road.  Some of his language in On the Road is truly breath taking, though.  I'll give him that.  I had a professor in college that made us study him, and the prof loved him, so I came away from that with a biased view, but when you read his works as a whole rather than just On the Road and some other pretty excerpts...eh.


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## Hoot08 (Mar 20, 2009)

Have you read The Town and the City? If not I suggest you do, it's an amazing book that really sets into motion the rest of Kerouac's work. I have to agree with you that not all his work is up to par with some of his other pieces. I do however he reached high points with the books I mentioned. Though I really enjoyed Dharma Bums as well.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 20, 2009)

I've read Dharma Bums but only a few excerpts from Town and City that earlier mentioned professor chose and printed out for my class.  I'll check it out based on your recommendation.


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## Mike C (Mar 20, 2009)

Dr. Malone said:


> "And The Hippos Boiled In Their Tanks"



Not a fair piece to judge - neither author wanted it published.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 20, 2009)

Okay then, compare pretty much any Burroughs work to any Keruoac work.


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## Hoot08 (Mar 20, 2009)

Why not just judge an author's work based on itself, not the work of others. I have not read Burroughs, so I will not say one is better than the other. I do feel however that Kerouac represented alot in his work, not only himself but generation of people. The way his style seems to change from book to book is extraordinary to me, that he could experiment in with prose in such a successful way.


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## JosephB (Mar 20, 2009)

I was surprised to see a couple of mixed media peices at the Guggenheim by Kerouac. I didn't know he dabbled in art. Not bad, but not really worthy of hanging with most of the artists there. (I say most because some of what I saw was questionable, in my opinion. I can't appreciate a solid off-white canvas.)


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## Tom88 (Mar 20, 2009)

I read Big Sur as a direct follow-up to On The Road, and thought it was a very powerful piece of writing. My very foundation felt rattled by Jack's eventual deterioration.

I love all his work (though I'm yet to read Desolation Angels, it's about impossible to find), I would have to say On The Road, The Town & The City, Dharma Bums and Big Sur are the only must reads.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 20, 2009)

> Why not just judge an author's work based on itself, not the work of others. I have not read Burroughs, so I will not say one is better than the other. I do feel however that Kerouac represented alot in his work, not only himself but generation of people.



Fair enough.  I only compare them because they were both major figures of the beat movement, and I feel Kerouac became the figurehead because he was younger, straighter, and better looking as much as for his writing.


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## The Wrong Writer (Mar 20, 2009)

Kerouac definitely over-rated as a writer.  He benefitted from adolescent "road trip" affection and from his Beat associations.  (Funny thing was, the boyish, athletic Kerouac didn't fit the Beatnik mold at all)

BUT, by no means as over-rated as Ginsberg, possibly the most over-rated writer in the history of the world.   Ok, Ok, there's Milton.  But people STILL think Ginsberg was a big deal.


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## Hoot08 (Mar 21, 2009)

Hey Malone, I watched that documentary and it was great. Seeing all of Kerouac's contemporaries giving their input on this great man. Caruso, Burroughs, and Ginsberg, just to name a few of them, each telling exactly how they saw Kerouac. What a wonderful find and I'll forever be thankful for showing me this great documentary, thank you again.


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 21, 2009)

I always preferred Dharma Bums to On the road, probably because it seemed like the first was about dope heads and the second about speed freaks. Nobody has mentioned Dr. Sax, that was weird. Someone told me that the road books were written when he was in his thirties, not really young man books at all, I don't know how true it is.


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## Hoot08 (Mar 21, 2009)

Kerouac may have written them in his thirties, but I'm unsure of when he wrote On the Road. I do know however that it was seven years from his travels till he began writing on that famous scroll that became On the Road. But I'd be ignorant to say I knew for sure, because I do not. Buckle, Dr. Sax should have been mentioned, I agree, but I feel it is The Town and The City, On The road, Dharma Bums, The Big Sur, and maybe Desolation Angels, though Dr.Sax could easily be thrown into that list. They are all great and differen despite being from the same author.


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## Dr. Malone (Mar 21, 2009)

I've heard just horrible things about Dr. Sax.  I guess I should read it for myself and find out the truth.


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## Hoot08 (Mar 21, 2009)

I've learned that it is always best to learn from personal experience than anothers. A Lit professor of mine, who is still my favorite and most influential in my life, once said the Vonnegut's Slaughter House IV, was not worth the read. Well, I decided to read it, and to this day it stands as the my favorite novel. This of course also applies to life.


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## Tom88 (Mar 30, 2009)

The prose in 'The Subteraneans' was really hard to get through.
Anyone read it? It was the first instance where his usually whimsical style felt grating, and actually pulled me out of the scene. It's not unreadable or anything, and it certainly has its moments, but all up I was really grateful it was only a short novel.


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## C.M.C. (Mar 31, 2009)

I liked Kerouac a lot more before I watched the documentary and actually listened to him.  The myth is so much more interesting than the real thing.


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## Hoot08 (Mar 31, 2009)

I have to diagree with you C.M.C. I found after watching the documentary, _What Happened to Kerouac_, it only increased my admiration for him. The way he read aloud some of his writing, it made the text and everything tie together, hearing how it should be read. The meaning seems to comes through his words and his voice, it's something I cannot explain but it is ultimately quite moving and real.


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## C.M.C. (Mar 31, 2009)

I had always read his work as having a manic, frenetic energy, so hearing him reading it more as a hipster did little to impress me.  What he may have been giving the text in terms of swing destroyed the essence of what I had found in my own readings.  I prefer to think of a book like On The Road as a man gasping to keep up with the energy of life, instead of a rhythmic long-form piece of free verse.


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## CountBlabula (Apr 4, 2009)

The Wrong Writer said:


> BUT, by no means as over-rated as Ginsberg, possibly the most over-rated writer in the history of the world. Ok, Ok, there's Milton.


 
Do you mean John Milton? Paradise Lost is boring me to tears!


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## Team 2012 (Apr 4, 2009)

I think it's supposed to.  That mincing little creep coming off with all that verbosity?

Thought he was a genius because he crossed classic and christian mythology (or got them mixed up)  TERRIBLE book.


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## Dr. Malone (Apr 4, 2009)

I too prefer reading his work than hearing him read it.  I feel that way about most authors, though.


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## Oliver-Milne (Apr 12, 2009)

The beats I've always felt were far more interesting as a concept , a charicature , than they were as writers. On The Road was okay. Howl was a work of genius in my opinion. 
But it's the idea that four men , whether they make a generation or not , could so radically change human thought at the time that creates a legacy and is truly impressive.


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## Mike C (Apr 12, 2009)

Oliver-Milne said:


> ...four men ... could so radically change human thought at the time that creates a legacy and is truly impressive.



And the realisation that it can never happen again is particularly devastating.


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## C.M.C. (Apr 12, 2009)

Oliver-Milne said:


> Howl was a work of genius in my opinion.



Whereas I would say it's a load of self-important tripe.


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## Tom88 (May 2, 2009)

Finally got a hold of Desolation Angels, chanced upon it at a new bookstore in my deliciously culture-less town. Shall provide my impressions once I finish, though I'm reading a few things first.
I'm basically expecting it to be the spiritual successor to Dharma Bums.


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## virginia (Jun 9, 2009)

Since I was about 20 and given my first, dog-eared, copy of _On the Road_, I have loved and been influenced by Kerouac's writing.

The paperback I received then, was already revered by the guy whose pocket it had travelled around in - a young man typical of Devon in those days, not quite hippie (too late) and not quite bum (too middle-class) but interesting enough to my green poet-in-a-bed-sit mind. I was moved by the kindness of this stranger (friend of my room-mate's) in parting with his treasure, for me. 

And later, after an hour or two's reading in the gloom of an out-of-work (college came years later) afternoon, I was thrilled. And all the lights of Kerouac's poetry - the rhythms and the beats -  were dancing in my mind - and calling me to create my own. I had found a soul-mate.

When I was at uni. in my 40's, I volunteered to give a presentation of _On the Road_. In the intervening years I had read the book several times, brought my son up on passages from it and written lots, for my own entertainment, about the text and others' writing on it. I remember critiquing a biography I had read, for fun! 

But it was a sad day, that day at uni. None of the younger (all of them) students seemed to appreciate what I and the tutor recognised. I was devastated... Oh, I can see the drug-carrying-on isn't good, and I certainly don't condone the immorality, or what-could-be-seen as misogyny, of the characters. But, guys! What about the cadence of the thing? Don't you hear it, feel it, especially in those pieces where the jazz is described so well [Part 2, chp. 11] that it comes alive in your veins? As it does for Dean Moriarty, fevered with ecstasy in the "Frisco" Club. Aren't _you_ standing there with him? Understanding?

Oh golly gosh! I love _On the Road -_ haven't read any of the others by Kerouac, just love this one too much (and sadly can't read so easily any more - MS). I've watched all the interviews I've come across and enjoyed biographies on him. Does this qualify me to add to this tapestried thread? I'm not sure, but I want to, and this is my third draft... I post then, wishing I could do a better job, in honour of JK. But, at least saying, "Thank you!"

I owe him that.

Virginia


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## The Wrong Writer (Jun 9, 2009)

> Originally Posted by Oliver-Milne
> Howl was a work of genius in my opinion.
> 
> Whereas I would say it's a load of self-important tripe.



Well, the "work of genius" label is certainly the official opinion.   Handed down largely by NYC literati who would have paid no attention to Ginsburg's rant had he not be Jewish and gay.

The "self-indulgent" tripe is the more obvious interpretation, and very usual among those not hypnotized by reputation.

What's interesting is that the "Howl was genius" people can never really tell us why.  Or even quote a passge that impresses us.


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## The Wrong Writer (Jun 9, 2009)

> I can see the drug-carrying-on isn't good,



Say WHAT??????


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## Tom88 (Jun 10, 2009)

Well this thread seems to be brimming with cynicism, but I thought virginia's post was beautiful. Hit the nail on the head for me.
I'm still in my early twenties, so I couldn't say how far _On The Road_'s influence will lead me, or how long I'll carry it with me (probably placing it on a ridiculous pedestal).
But I do know that it's largely responsible for my interest in writing. That book holds such a tremendously heavy legacy, and sometimes I think I may've sentimentalized it all out of proportion. But then I go back and revisit it, and I fall in love again.

There isn't much else I would describe with the rose-coloured lenses. 

Kerouac is my first [literary] love.


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## Tom88 (Jun 10, 2009)

And Virginia, definitely look into the rest of his catalogue.
He never quite reaches the heights of _On The Road_, but by and large the poetry there is untouchable. There's still plenty to love.

At _very least _pick up Big Sur. Revisiting Neal Cassidy, but everything has changed.
Jack's slow deterioration caused by the ridiculous legacy _On The Road _left (somewhat ironic that I'd revere him so highly (for OTR) when it's fans like me that pushed him over the edge).


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## virginia (Jun 12, 2009)

Tom88 said:


> And Virginia, definitely look into the rest of his catalogue.
> He never quite reaches the heights of _On The Road_, but by and large the poetry there is untouchable. There's still plenty to love.
> 
> At _very least _pick up Big Sur. Revisiting Neal Cassidy, but everything has changed.
> Jack's slow deterioration caused by the ridiculous legacy _On The Road _left (somewhat ironic that I'd revere him so highly (for OTR) when it's fans like me that pushed him over the edge).


 
Thank you, Tom, for all your words. I certainly will try to read _Big Sur_.

Virginia


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## Hoot08 (Sep 4, 2009)

I'm currently working through the entire Duluoz Legend, thus far I'm on Vanity of Duluoz having completed, Maggie Cassidy, Dr.Sax, Visions of Gerard and up. I've already read On the Road and Dharma Bums, which I'll read through again when they are next in line of the Duluoz Legend. However my favorite of his is Town and the City. A wonderful novel, completely different from his others. Though I'd say Dr.Sax has had the greatest impact on my writing thought.


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