# my teacher is blowing me



## pointystar (Apr 8, 2014)

So long story short, she hates me because I apparently talk too much and mess around. For the first two quarters, I was a bit rowdy, but I've calmed down since. (This is english 10[regular]). I barely say a word now when she's talking. Now we had this huge essay and she gave me a god damn C-. It was a pretty nice essay, MUCH BETTER THAN MY CLASSMATES. She thinks I copy pasted it all - it was that good. I had ZERO help, nothing, nada. Here is the introduction paragraph. (Please don't quote it in case I need to delete it). 



This just blows me.


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## spartan928 (Apr 8, 2014)

Not sure where you're from but "blowing me" has a much different connotation in my neck of the woods, so not sure what the beef is. Assume you didn't like the grade huh?


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## dale (Apr 8, 2014)

it may not be plagiarized, but it most definitely reads like the same crap regurgitated over and over and over again
on any left wing blog site.


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## stormageddon (Apr 8, 2014)

Left wing crap or crap that happens to be left wing? Well, either way I wouldn't call it crap, but pointystar, it is a little rambly. I'd comment on sentence length/flow but I'm assuming you're being marked on content and structuring so it's irrelevant. Dunno what level of education you're at, so can't say if the c was fair or unfair.

I can confirm that teachers suck, but in my experience they don't tend to blow.


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## InstituteMan (Apr 8, 2014)

As spartan noted, "blowing me" apparently has a different connotation where I live.

Putting aside the relative merits of the political position you assert, I can't really tell if my liberal self agrees with you or not because you speak only in generalities in defining the problem and proposing a solution. Maybe you got into those in more detail later, but 85 and 3.5 billion are the only two actual numbers you shared. This subject requires a lot of numbers to present properly, IMHO. Even without numbers, more precise language and definitions of what the heck you were talking about would be in order.

Then there is the growing rift that is growing wider and wider every year - which is both poorly worded and rhetorically limp. Oh, and then there are the incomplete sentences. Those don't help the matter either. 

I am not saying that you didn't have the best paper in the class, since I haven't seen the other papers in the class. I am saying that you may have overlooked some of the shortcomings of your effort here.

I hope it goes better next time.


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## dale (Apr 8, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> Left wing crap or crap that happens to be left wing? Well, either way I wouldn't call it crap, but pointystar, it is a little rambly. I'd comment on sentence length/flow but I'm assuming you're being marked on content and structuring so it's irrelevant. Dunno what level of education you're at, so can't say if the c was fair or unfair.
> 
> I can confirm that teachers suck, but in my experience they don't tend to blow.



i'm not saying it's a necessarily horrible paragraph. i do see at least one mistake in it, grammatically. 

"Wealth concentration can have a pernicious effect politics and government"......

it seems the word "on' may have been left out of this sentence. my point was i can see why she thought it was a copy/paste. 
i actually googled the paragraph myself just to make sure she wasn't right.


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## SarahStrange (Apr 8, 2014)

Not _at all _what I was expecting from the title of the thread....

And if you didn't use any sources then where did you get the numbers? Did you make them up? If you found them somewhere, they need citations and proper references. If you don't have citations, then yes, it is plagiarized. Any college professor will tell you this.


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## Riptide (Apr 8, 2014)

Haha, completely blew me away... definitely not what the title suggested... unless you used that as a way to get us to read the passage. The beginning is kinda throwing everything you got into it


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## Deleted member 49710 (Apr 9, 2014)

First off, one needs to know what the assignment actually was in order to understand the grade assigned. It's not just a matter of your grammar and vocab; you have to consider how well you fulfilled the task you were given.

Second, you say a lot of things are bad without saying why they're bad. You say over and over, there is inequality and it is bad, pernicious, poison, etc; but there's no reasoning behind it. So the argument is poor. Then the second sentence is a fragment. So the writing is just okay. And as Sarah points out, you need to cite sources for your numbers.

Third--yeah, saying something "blows you" means something very different to, um, everybody.

Finally...


			
				stormageddon said:
			
		

> I can confirm that teachers suck



I'm a teacher. I could tell you that students suck--most of them, frankly, are pretty lame. But not all. And I'm a mature and intelligent person who knows better than to generalize like that. Extend me the same courtesy, okay?


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## Dave Watson (Apr 9, 2014)

Best. Thread. Title. Ever.

Sorry dude, but in all honesty, you're coming across as a whiny little kid having a temper tantrum here, especially with your insistence that your essay is "much better" than everyone else's. How could you possibly know that? It's impossible for any of us on here to comment on your essay without knowing what the essay question was and seeing the whole thing, references, citations and all. If the rest of your essay is like the paragraph you posted, I'd say a C- was generous if anything, as it reads more like a list of political statements than a coherant paragraph. You need to give facts and sources, not a checklist of angry opinions.


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## qwertyman (Apr 9, 2014)

Blimey, teachers that suck and blow and think that inequality repeated five times and wealth four times in one paragraph was so good it had to be plagiarised...do you live in the Appalachians and play the banjo?


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## bookmasta (Apr 9, 2014)

lasm said:


> I'm a teacher. I could tell you that students suck--most of them, frankly, are pretty lame. But not all. And I'm a mature and intelligent person who knows better than to generalize like that. Extend me the same courtesy, okay?



I can confirm this. Most of the best people I know are teachers.


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## Gavrushka (Apr 9, 2014)

I think the problem with considering yourself a victim of your teacher's malice, is that you absolve yourself of any responsibilities for your actions. In so doing, you can just carry on down the route you are... After all, it's not your fault is it?

It's a hellish difficult thing to do, but try and take a step back from the situation, cut through the emotion and try and see your teacher's perspective. - They either care enough to single you out, or they have become a malignant entity, dead-set on making your life miserable. - You may feel the desperate need to cling to the second description, but consider the first. When I was at school, I knew everything, and was never wrong... By the time I reached my twenties, I was surprised by how much I SEEMED to have forgotten. - By the time I reached thirty, the cold truth clutched me in its grasp. - I'd been a 'typical' teen and had clung so tightly to my perspective that anything not in keeping was the enemy.

I suspect if you were to change class, you'd come across another similar teacher and, by the fourth or fifth class change, the penny may just drop... 

Your opening paragraph of your essay comes across as a blinkered opinion, portrayed as a singular truth... Hmmm, think hard on that one.


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## Sam (Apr 9, 2014)

If she believed that you copied and pasted any part of the essay, you would have received a warning for plagiarism. You would have either been told to redo the essay from scratch, or been awarded a mark of zero, so perhaps you would like to redress the above statement that your teacher said you copied and pasted a chunk of prose from another source. As a rule, schools have zero tolerance for plagiarism. There is no way any teacher ignores that.


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## stormageddon (Apr 9, 2014)

lasm said:


> I'm a teacher. I could tell you that students suck--most of them, frankly, are pretty lame. But not all. And I'm a mature and intelligent person who knows better than to generalize like that. Extend me the same courtesy, okay?



Lasm, I'm terribly sorry. You are clearly a lovely person, and if I had thought my comment might offend lovely persons, I would not have posted it. Personally, I have rarely had pleasant teachers. My first English teacher at GCSE never gave me a mark above 2/25 for any of my essays and constantly threw tantrums. Then she left and I had a different teacher for my second year- she remarked my essays and they were all As and A*s.

There are some genuinely wonderful teachers out there, such as yourself, but some students, such as myself, have rarely experienced them  I am very aware of how nightmarish students can be, but many teachers do make the "students suck" generalization and treat the lovely ones as unkindly as the annoying ones.

Hopefully I have unoffended you, but in the interest of the others reading this thread I don't think I can justify rambling on any further.


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## patskywriter (Apr 9, 2014)

I kept in mind what you said about your earlier behavior in class while reading your introductory paragraph. It might be possible that the C (i.e. "meh") indicates that the teacher has given up on you or doesn't expect much (and isn't overly concerned about it). I don't know how old you are, but I'd suggest a massive change in attitude. You should also put a lot more work into expressing yourself clearly. If I were your instructor, I might have read that intro and come to the conclusion that you hadn't mastered the subject matter.


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## Kevin (Apr 9, 2014)

> I'm a teacher


how does one make a tiger noise?  anyway...back up slowly...easy

Jr....just so you know...for every point off on your grade point average you get less money for grants/scholarships. It's a direct translation.  We're talking guaranteed college money here, available to every student. Grades=money. No one ever told me that.


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## Terry D (Apr 9, 2014)

pointystar said:


> So long story short, she hates me because I apparently talk too much and mess around. For the first two quarters, I was a bit rowdy, but I've calmed down since. (This is english 10[regular]). I barely say a word now when she's talking. Now we had this huge essay and she gave me a god damn C-. It was a pretty nice essay, MUCH BETTER THAN MY CLASSMATES. She thinks I copy pasted it all - it was that good. I had ZERO help, nothing, nada. Here is the introduction paragraph. (Please don't quote it in case I need to delete it).
> 
> The growing rift of wealth inequality is growing wider and wider each year. Even though some measure of inequality is essential in order to have a successful economy. But the extreme concentrations of wealth that exists today is detrimental to the economy and the people. We must decrease the wealth inequality to a point where where there is healthy inequality and enough capital for all classes. We are living in a society in which 85 people own as much wealth as 3.5 billion people. Such extreme inequality is poison for our society and will slowly damage the economy. Wealth concentration can have a pernicious effect politics and government in which politicians will work to satisfy the interest of the rich who, consequently, fund them. Tax shelters, financial deregulation, and economic crisis will ensue.
> 
> This just blows me.



I think her suspicion may be justified. Many of your posts here at WF have been asking for help with essays and assignments, so you obviously are prone to not doing your own work.


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## Bishop (Apr 9, 2014)

lasm said:


> First off, one needs to know what the assignment actually was in order to understand the grade assigned. It's not just a matter of your grammar and vocab; you have to consider how well you fulfilled the task you were given.
> 
> Second, you say a lot of things are bad without saying why they're bad. You say over and over, there is inequality and it is bad, pernicious, poison, etc; but there's no reasoning behind it. So the argument is poor. Then the second sentence is a fragment. So the writing is just okay. And as Sarah points out, you need to cite sources for your numbers.
> 
> ...



This. All of this.

My wife, Bishopette as she is known, is also a teacher. I can tell you from first hand (okay, well... second hand!) experience that it's the students that suck. We live in a world right now were apathy and entitlement are dominant in the school system. Sure, there's some bad teachers, but for every bad teacher there's a hundred that try hard. It's the students that don't.

They believe themselves entitled in some way. They'll ignore a homework assignment, turn it in late, do a rushed and crappy job, ignore the question, use improper sources, and then when they get a D, have the audacity to give excuses as to why they deserve a better grade. My boyfriend broke up with me. My car got broken into. Insert teenage angst here. None of it has an effect on grades. Bishopette (and Lasm) are the holy ones for fighting beyond these rambling complaints as to why someone deserves better, when in reality the failure is theirs and theirs alone.

I'm sorry you didn't get the grade you wanted. That should only be an incentive to try harder next time.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Apr 9, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> Lasm, I'm terribly sorry.  [...]
> Hopefully I have unoffended you, but in the interest of the others reading this thread I don't think I can justify rambling on any further.


I'm not really _offended_; kinda don't like that term. And in fact I'm not a very wonderful teacher. I don't like teaching, it's just part of being a grad student. But I am a person doing my best; that's what most teachers are, and being cast as a faulty grade-dispensing machine is not fun.

Anyway, let's carry on with beating up the OP.


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## Kevin (Apr 9, 2014)

> asking for help


 could be he needs a tutor. I needed a tutor... and a councilor. 





> let's carry on with beating up the OP


 Go easy. 16 is not 26.


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## escorial (Apr 9, 2014)

informative an personal..liked man


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## stormageddon (Apr 9, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Go easy. 16 is not 26.



Precisely. In defence of students, we are not emotionally mature, due to the stage of development our brains are at, and we are mentally unhinged by the hormones running rampant around our bodies. My uni graduate psychologist friend said your brain isn't fully mature until roughly your mid-twenties. So while we can work on having more positive attitudes, we can only go so far in avoiding being whiny, lazy and irritating, unfortunately, and we will often do and say stupid things. That may be just one more excuse, but at least it has scientific basis 

Still, you think it's bad teaching teenagers, try being one again v.v


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## dale (Apr 9, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> My uni graduate psychologist friend said your brain isn't fully mature until roughly your mid-twenties.



my brain must be full-fledged retarded, then. i don't see too much different in my way of thinking at 45, as compared to 16.


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## Gavrushka (Apr 9, 2014)

stormageddon the unhinged

stormageddon the rampant

Damn, they both have a great ring to them.

Alas, I am stuck with Gavrushka the misshapen.


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## Bishop (Apr 9, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> Precisely. In defence of students, we are not emotionally mature, due to the stage of development our brains are at, and we are mentally unhinged by the hormones running rampant around our bodies. My uni graduate psychologist friend said your brain isn't fully mature until roughly your mid-twenties. So while we can work on having more positive attitudes, we can only go so far in avoiding being whiny, lazy and irritating, unfortunately, and we will often do and say stupid things. That may be just one more excuse, but at least it has scientific basis
> 
> Still, you think it's bad teaching teenagers, try being one again v.v



I was a teenager not too long ago, and my wife deals with seventeen and eighteen year olds everyday, and I can tell you that scientific or not, these issues can be overcome. Rather easily, actually. I'm not saying it's the children's fault but teenagers all over the world are able to overcome this crap. Whiny, lazy, and irritating are not genetic, they're societal. Teenager's don't need more positive attitudes, they need to understand responsibility and consequences for their actions. Sure, we can chock it up to "Oh, little Jimmy's 16, he's just _like_ that." But it's not the case. It's people allowing them to be like that. My parents kicked my ass when I didn't do well in school, and rightly so. I had to work hard, and learn to understand what accountability really was before I could succeed. I had the same hormones, the same immaturity, the same negative attitude, but I learned to work hard and do what I was capable of. 

Not everyone will be capable of getting an A, but that is not the reason students fail. Students fail because they allow it, then beg for extra credit three days before graduation (which they wont be attending because they're failing Bishopette's class and suddenly they realize this will have an impact on getting into college--YES, this happened.)

This is not just a rant about my dislike for teenagers. These kids will be slaughtered when they hit the job market. For a while, I was a retail manager and I fired a lot of 18 year olds fresh out of high school who failed to get into college and failed to understand accountability and expectations, and I never had any regrets about that.


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## patskywriter (Apr 9, 2014)

Thanks for saying that, stormageddon. I also didn't appreciate the repeated references to the title. Not all 16-year-olds are conversant with as many sexual references as adults, and I feel that it would have been better to ignore it. I wonder if the posters would have made these remarks if the OP had been a preteen.


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## stormageddon (Apr 9, 2014)

dale said:


> my brain must be full-fledged retarded, then. i don't see too much different in my way of thinking at 45, as compared to 16.



Well, I'm 18 in...dear lord, in two days D: anyway, the difference between current me and even a year ago me is mindblowing. Part of it's mental health, but most of it is a more mature, less bitchy thought process that started developing of its own accord somewhere in that time frame. I'm sure when I'm 45, I'll look back and still see the same person, as it's only a subtle difference, if an important and perspective-altering one. So Dale, I wouldn't worry 

And Bishop- I'm not saying this means we can't be taught to work and take responsibility. What I mean by changing our attitudes is, in fact, that we need to do what you suggested- do stuff we don't want to do, and accept that it's good for us.

However, being held accountable for every stupid or ill thought through thing we say or do is not fair.

For example, this morning I tried to lift a glass of water to my mouth with my feet, and didn't realize until after the event that it was not going to end well for me or for my pyjamas. Now, I'm not a complete idiot. In hindsight, it seems obvious what would happen. But sometimes, what my cousins have termed a "brain fart" occurs in the mind of the teenager, and inevitably, disaster strikes.


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## InstituteMan (Apr 9, 2014)

Ah, the teenage brain. Ah, the teenage parent. I have two, count 'em, two teenagers in my house. They are not just random teenagers - InstituteWoman and I came about them years ago in the usual sort of way - so I am probably biased on all of these conversations. 

Let me anger the people older than me (I am in my early forties) and share a generalization my wife and I have made about the friends and classmates of our kids: if their parents are Gen Xers, the kids are pretty good to deal with; if their parents are baby boomers, not so much. The types of kids Bishopette deals with sounds like my daughters' classmates with baby boomer parents.

That isn't to bag on baby boomers, but I think that there are a lot of generational differences in raising kids. I also think that the people who are 15 to 20 years older than me (and who were therefor having children in their late 30s to early 40s) were so damned pleased to have those little precious miracles that they catered to them far more than they parented them. Plus, if you have kids as young as InstituteWoman and I did, you don't exactly have the money or time to spoil the daylights out of them. I see lots and lots of exception to this generalization. I also suspect that in different places the situation may be different, and I strongly suspect that later reproducing Gen Xers will have a different approach to parenting as well.

That said, let me admit to realizing that I have a serious and unavoidable bias in favor of thinking that my kids and kids like them are totally awesome, so everyone should feel free to disagree with me.


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## Apple Ice (Apr 9, 2014)

Everything's relative with these sorts of things and so people can't really pass of their judgments as absolute. I'm a student doing my A-levels, 3 of them in fact, and I have one incompetent teacher who is too old and out of touch, one teacher who is an absolute wet lettuce and can't comprehend discipline but is intelligent and a bit lazy and another who is content to let us fail as long as he keeps his middle class life-style. There are also students who are absolute idiots in my classes and shouldn't bother getting out of bed. I judge them individually. I'm older than most the students though by about 3 years and their immaturity is so profound to me. I feel I want to bend them over my knee and spank them. They need to take responsibility but they also can't be entrusted with every responsibility because they are just big kids at the end of it.

As for the OP, that paragraph was awful, not through my opinions on equality, but it as a paragraph for an academic essay.


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## Terry D (Apr 9, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> However, being held accountable for every stupid or ill thought through thing we say or do is not fair.



It is only in the consistent application of such accountability that there is any semblance of 'fairness'. What is not fair is to pick and choose which ill-considered words and actions _are_ worthy of accountability.

Life ain't fair.


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## stormageddon (Apr 9, 2014)

Sir, I disagree  life isn't fair for a reason- because people aren't fair. And yet...we can be 

"What is not fair is to pick and choose which ill-considered words and actions _are worthy of accountability."

_Basic failure of logic here. If someone accidentally insults you, are you going to instantly dislike them for it? Or will you exercise the magical power of forgiveness? Which do you honestly think is fairer? We use logic to decide whether or not someone can be justly held accountable. If they cannot, we cut them some slack, or so it should be. Some people aren't willing to do that, that's why the world isn't fair. The youth make these mistakes more often, so my point is that people ought to allow for that.

In other words, rather than "omg you're a whiny little whatsit for saying this", perhaps more gentle correction would be in order.

Many teenagers are stupid by accident. We just can't see things clearly sometimes- I refer you back to brain farts. Something will just go in your brain and no matter how much thought you put into something, it seems like a good idea right up until the moment it ends horribly. Obviously, I'm talking about the minor things here, not things like violence and so on.

EDIT: Text conversation I just had with my mum.

Stormageddon- You mentioned chocolate the other day. Is it in your stomach?

Stormater- No. You are really foul sometimes.

I. Hate. My. Brain v.v


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## T.S.Bowman (Apr 9, 2014)

dale said:


> my brain must be full-fledged retarded, then. i don't see too much different in my way of thinking at 45, as compared to 16.



I resemble this remark. -)


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## thepancreas11 (Apr 9, 2014)

Getting back to the point, I'd probably give that paragraph a C too.

Look, just because you dressed your fluff up nicely with well-written sentences doesn't make your point any more valid. The point of an essay is to try to pull someone who's on the fence down into your yard, and all you've done is blowhard here (sorry...oh so sorry). First, please don't point out the obvious and expect to knock my socks off. Yes, there will always be a discrepancy between poor and rich, and that discrepancy leads to an economic system where the middle and upper classes prosper off the economy (to a certain point). That's like pointing out that Bugs Bunny likes carrots. Second, point to your numbers. You've included two in an entire supporting paragraph, something about 3 point 5 billion something or others. My engineering professors would have pointed and laughed at me for such little evidence. To support a point, you must include facts, not opinions. Yeah, the Westboro Baptist Church of Crazies (just to point out one very opinionated group) can be as adamant as they want in telling me that American soldiers die because God hates gays, but that doesn't make me believe them (they are a real, disturbing thing by the way). At what point in their rhetoric do they ever prove anything? Third, as far as the prose goes, try not to overuse words like I did here trying to prove a point.


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## Kepharel (Apr 9, 2014)

If your teacher thought you copy/pasted that opening paragraph, as you say, because it was that good, I would suggest she take up some other subject than economics


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## Terry D (Apr 9, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> Sir, I disagree  life isn't fair for a reason- because people aren't fair. And yet...we can be
> 
> "What is not fair is to pick and choose which ill-considered words and actions _are worthy of accountability."
> 
> _Basic failure of logic here. If someone accidentally insults you, are you going to instantly dislike them for it? Or will you exercise the magical power of forgiveness? Which do you honestly think is fairer?



How about a third alternative? I politely let the person know they have insulted me. I don't have to dislike him/her, but I have held them accountable for their actions. Accountability is not a negative thing. But we are taking this topic far afield, so I'll leave it at that.


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## dale (Apr 9, 2014)

back to the thread title...my sophomore lit/comp teacher was off the hook. i made Ds all through that class mainly because when she talked
i couldn't pay attention. my eyes were always like right below her neckline. gorgeous woman.


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## Trygve (Apr 9, 2014)

My teenagers think that nothing of value can come from listening to their dad, until midnight on the night before a calculus or chemistry exam...
The part of the brain involved in judgment isn't fully developed until until we're 24. I think mine took longer.

Back to the initial post and the possibility that the teacher thought it was plagiarized:

I can't believe that an English teacher would look at that and think that it was edited and published somewhere else -- even on the internet.  The first sentence describes a "growing rift" as,well... "growing."  The second sentence is a fragment.  The third says that "...extreme concentrations(plural) of wealth (preposition, so subject is still plural) that exists (singular) is  (singular) detrimental...  Sentence four says "... where where there is..."

I have tutored and substitute-taught English and high school math and science.  I think the thing to do here is to go to your teacher and ask for an explanation of each error. Tell her you just want to be a better writer. She'll probably be overjoyed to find that you actually care and want to improve. I don't know what grade level you are at, but if you don't recognize the errors I've pointed out above, you've got some studying to do.


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## Jeko (Apr 9, 2014)

> The growing rift of wealth inequality is growing wider and wider each year. Even though some measure of inequality is essential in order to have a successful economy. But the extreme concentrations of wealth that exists today is detrimental to the economy and the people. We must decrease the wealth inequality to a point where where there is healthy inequality and enough capital for all classes. We are living in a society in which 85 people own as much wealth as 3.5 billion people. Such extreme inequality is poison for our society and will slowly damage the economy. Wealth concentration can have a pernicious effect politics and government in which politicians will work to satisfy the interest of the rich who, consequently, fund them. Tax shelters, financial deregulation, and economic crisis will ensue.



This is

1) Grammatically flawed
2) Unstructured
3) Poor at introducing the subject of the essay

Regardless of how you wrote it, this doesn't read well enough to deserve a stronger mark. You shouldn't be responding to your teacher like this; you should be looking at your work and working out how to improve it. If you have a legitimate question for your teacher, give it to her. Get a clearer understanding. Else, you have work to do to improve the way you write your essays.

Generally, your teacher is right until proven wrong, and since they are not proven wrong, they are right.


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## Trygve (Apr 9, 2014)

@pointystar, I'm thinking my last post may have been the wrong kind of criticism. I love helping students, and I've got some ideas for you on how to improve your writing for both fiction and non-fiction.  Let me know if you're interested, and I'll send you a pm or make a longer post here.

Non-fiction can be harder because you want it to sound important, scholarly, informed, etc. That sometimes causes writers to switch to a passive voice or use clunky sentence structure. Your piece seemed more like you had researched some facts and then kind of rushed through and didn't proof-read (...where where there is... being the best example).  

I'd be happy to look at anything you're working on and explain what needs fixing and why. Feel free to pm me, but don't paste in _War and Peace_. I do have a day job.


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## Cran (Apr 9, 2014)

dale said:


> my brain must be full-fledged retarded, then. i don't see too much different in my way of thinking at 45, as compared to 16.


Hmm - I do with mine; I was a much better, more inspired and more enlightened thinker when I was 16 than when I was at 45.


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## Kevin (Apr 9, 2014)

> I was a much better, more inspired and more enlightened thinker when I was 16 than when I was at 45


 I was thinking more along the lines of the aging, swiss-cheese factor...


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## stormageddon (Apr 9, 2014)

Terry D said:


> How about a third alternative? I politely let the person know they have insulted me. I don't have to dislike him/her, but I have held them accountable for their actions. Accountability is not a negative thing. But we are taking this topic far afield, so I'll leave it at that.



That's actually what I meant- accountability without judgement, I just kept losing track of what I was saying  yes, I agree with that, and sorry for being perhaps unnecessarily stubborn. Back on topic.

Pointystar, I feel I owe you a long response after hijacking your thread. I am forced to admit that most teachers, good or bad, do not grade students based on anything other than the quality of the work submitted. If you got a c, in all likelihood, you deserved it, so rather than blame your teacher, blame yourself. That way, regardless of whether she was right, you will be motivated to improve.

Judging yourself against your classmates is a pointless exercise. Firstly, because they could all be terrible, so it is hardly indicative of your actual ability, and secondly, because it's irrelevant. Are you doing the best that you can do? That's all that matters. Not who is better than who, but who puts the effort in, because at the end of the day, they're the ones that are going to make it in life.

I say this as a hypocrite, I'll admit. I don't work half as hard as I should, because with minimal effort I still get better grades than most of the students in all my classes. You strike me as thinking along the same lines, but you also strike me as someone who WANTS to do brilliantly, so don't hold yourselfback by letting yourself sink into the typical teenage mindset. I would like to go on but I am rambling, and I'm hardly spouting nuggets of wisdom.

So, goodbye, good luck, and don't be a teenager.


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## pointystar (Apr 9, 2014)

First of all, the essay was meant as a persuasive essay about a controversial topic. Second, my introductory paragraph was meant as introducing my arguments, not to back it up with evidence. Third, this is regular English 10. The sentence structure is advanced compared to the average level. Anyway, Ive attached the entire essay with comments and everything. You can see she gives me random notes that are completely irrelevent. Like rent thick sectors. She tells me to define it even though i just did in the Next sentence. I am typing via phone, so forgive any mistakes.



























She also does other crazy things. For example she gave the entire claas a C+ on two assignments for no apparent reason. This isnt the first time i have had a problem with teachers. I complained about 2 previous teachers and the administration recognized my complaint and made changes.


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## dale (Apr 9, 2014)

lol. looks to me like she's a good teacher, by the time and effort she gave to help you learn something. i guess you wanted a pat on the
head and an "A" for effort. many wannabe writers are like that.


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## InstituteMan (Apr 9, 2014)

First of all, MAJOR kudos to you for coming back after all the . . . constructive criticism . . . we gave your paragraph.

My quick thought is that your teacher made pretty much the comments I would have made, but only for someone I thought could do better: open ended in many cases, and challenging you to raise your level of performance. If they don't make sense to you, talk to her. You actually should be encouraged by the volume of her remarks, since most people (and teachers are people) don't waste their effort and energy on those who can't be redeemed.

While I think this needs some reworking and a lot of improved citation and support, you do have a decent reed on which to hang a fuller and more well developed argument.


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## patskywriter (Apr 9, 2014)

Wow. Instead of wasting your time on this forum—complaining to random strangers about something as important as your education—you really need to get to work making the improvements your instructor suggested. Our opinions mean absolutely nothing. I would much prefer that you stop looking for validation and put that energy toward your schoolwork—it's way too important. Stop fooling around. (Oh no! I just turned into my mom!   )


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## Gavrushka (Apr 10, 2014)

I really, really do wish I'd had a teacher quite so committed to helping. Or perhaps I did, but just didn't listen. If you look at her comments and see 'red' you're looking at it wrong. Look again and see advice. Good advice.


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## Kepharel (Apr 10, 2014)

Hi Pointy,

I am taking a break from this Forum, other than an odd comment here and there when something interests me, but the sheer passion in your essay at the injustice brought about by free market economics across the world has brought me back to my word processor just this once.  The reason for this is because I was you some fifty odd years ago, not only that I still am today in my heart.  Anyhow, on with my comments and I hope you take the advice of a fellow traveller on board. I notice the essay is for English rather than Economics and perhaps my previous comments criticising your teacher, mistakenly believing it was the latter may be unfounded.  As an English teacher I wouldn’t expect a too rigorous appreciation of economics from her.

Basically I see your essay as your own personal rant at the consequences of a world economy out of balance and the damage that disproportionate power and wealth is doing to societies in general.  What you have done is to let your own personal feelings get in the way of an otherwise persuasive argument. On that basis alone the mark of a C is generous, in my opinion.  So what could you have done to get a higher grade? As has already been pointed out, there are no references to the factual assertions that you have made.  If you had done only that then the mark would deserve to be higher than C. Another basic flaw in the Essay is the lack of balance.  By that I mean that no economic system is all bad, including Free Market Economics unfortunately. The tone of the Essay should have been one of ‘compare and contrast’. By admitting that World Economies work ( as they do) but are fundamentally flawed, it would take your Essay out of politics and onto the Economic ground you want to argue.

Once you have weighed up the pro’s (there have to be some!) and con’s of  the argument you are making, backed up by factual references OF COURSE, you are then free to draw your own conclusions that the con’s do, in fact, outweigh the pro’s. Now if you had done all that, in my opinion you may have even scored an A.

On a more personal note, keep wearing your heart on your sleeve for as long as you can before life weighs you down with cynicism and helplessness at what an individual can do to change things.  If you are lucky maybe you can make a difference. I do hope so.


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## Kyle R (Apr 10, 2014)

Hey Pointy.

I think you did a great job, but you might have been aiming at a slightly different target than your teacher had in mind.

The usual purpose of a thesis assignment isn't just to make a point through argument and/or discussion—it's to demonstrate that you understand how to properly *research* and *conclude*. (Get it? The instructor doesn't care about your subject matter. She only cares about the execution.)

Introduce the topic before making a thesis statement (first paragraph). Then introduce and cite data and explain how these facts demonstrate the different sides of the argument. End with a closing summary that (hopefully) convinces the reader of a certain viewpoint.

Use your research to persuade the reader to come to an agreement with your perspective. Don't use rhetoric, opinion, or assertion. Use the facts. Stack the data. Compound the reader with consistent information from multiple sources, and use this research to guide the reader to a specific conclusion.

It's very much like the old maxim of fiction writing: *Show, don't tell.*

Don't tell me smoking is bad for one's health—show me statistics of mounting hospitalizations that correspond with rising tobacco sales.

Don't tell me parenting is getting harder—show me survey excerpts from modern parents agreeing on the mounting difficulties of raising their children.

Don't try to convince with your ability to argue a point. That's not the point of the assignment. The point is to show how well you can persuade a reader through the diligent collection (and presentation) of research. It's to show that you 1) Know how to research, and 2) Know how to present your research in an organized and convincing manner.

Hope any of this helps. :encouragement:


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## Jeko (Apr 10, 2014)

Thank you for sharing the essay, pointystar.

My advice would be to stop thinking that you know more than your teacher. You go to school to learn. That means the teacher knows more than you, and the evidence you have provided proves it.

Kyle's advice is good, but what you generally need to do is remember why you're going to school in the first place. Then you would listen to the people who are taking their time to try to improve your academic performance, either in the classroom or on this forum. It doesn't matter where you go; if you can't take advice, you'll get nowhere.


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## Pandora (Apr 10, 2014)

Please show her the respect she deserves. I think you got off on the wrong foot and she seems to be a caring teacher, maybe fix it now, listen to her.


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## aj47 (Apr 10, 2014)

pointystar said:


> So long story short, she hates me because I apparently talk too much and mess around. For the first two quarters, I was a bit rowdy, but I've calmed down since. (This is english 10[regular]). I barely say a word now when she's talking. Now we had this huge essay and she gave me a god damn C-. It was a pretty nice essay, MUCH BETTER THAN MY CLASSMATES. She thinks I copy pasted it all - it was that good. I had ZERO help, nothing, nada. Here is the introduction paragraph. (Please don't quote it in case I need to delete it).



How are you turning this work in?  Turnitin.com has a plagiarism metric, what does it say?


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## Plasticweld (Apr 11, 2014)

Hi Pointy, cool thread and I am surprised no one has picked up on this. 

Lets take your work and your word that the paper you wrote it is great, better than all of the others, you made that statement in your opening post. You spent your time talking about income in-equality maybe what you are suffering from is grade in-equality. 

I mean is it really fair that you are so much smarter than the other kids, able to craft a paper like that probably puts you in the top 1 percent of you classmates.  Is it really fair that your school mates have to compete on the same playing field as you. On a intellectual level you are far above them and all you will do is make theirs look bad, that's just not fair is it. 

So maybe what your teacher did by giving you the C- is take some of your hard work and brilliance and pass it on to a D or F student. We both know there are far more D and F students in life than A students.  So if we take just 2 grade levels off of your grade your A Plus paper it now becomes a C-  paper but  you have so much extra knowledge and wisdom that you should not mind helping out all of the others who are so disadvantaged.  You should be proud of your C- Just work a little harder so you can help those other kids get a passing grade, it is after all only fair based on the logic in your paper.

On a more serious note there is some great advice in this thread for a young guy, I hope you get to take advantage of it...Bob


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## Trygve (Apr 11, 2014)

How many other papers did she have to red-pencil? Yet she took the time to go over your paper thoroughly and tell you what was wrong.  If she didn't care, she would have just written a grade at the top and handed it back.  So, look at those corrections and what she says and take it to heart.  The red on your paper is not a scolding, it's an attempt to help. You're looking at this through the lens of "my teacher hates me," but those of us who have been on the planet a bit longer see someone trying to show you how to make stronger arguments supported by facts and how to write in a way that will get you taken seriously.  The data is very much in support of your argument, but you haven't presented it effectively.


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## pointystar (Nov 11, 2014)

Wow, I was a god damn idiot last year.


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## Morkonan (Nov 11, 2014)

pointystar said:


> Wow, I was a god damn idiot last year.



Everyone gets their turn!

Believe me, you have not cornered the market on being an "idiot." Idiots are made every day. But, it takes wisdom to realize when one has trod down that path.  So, congratulations on your redemption!

You also need to recognize how fortunate you are. Everyone gets their turn at being an idiot. However, if you can get enough successive turns at being an idiot when you're young, you'll be better trained to avoid them as you get older, when adult responsibilities make being an idiot a very dangerous occupation...


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## popsprocket (Nov 11, 2014)

pointystar said:


> Wow, I was a god damn idiot last year.




It's alright. You'll look back and say this every year.


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## ppsage (Nov 11, 2014)

pointystar said:


> Wow, I was a god damn idiot last year.


You just blew me away.


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## InstituteMan (Nov 11, 2014)

pointystar said:


> Wow, I was a god damn idiot last year.



The nifty thing about the foolishness of youth is that many grow out of it. Growth can be painful, but it is better than the alternative.

As an aside, I am rather glad that I came of age before there was much in the way of long-lived and easily accessible evidence of my own stupidity. The one video cassette my parents have that features a cocky but utterly ignorant and thoughtless teenage boy who looks a lot pictures of me from back in the day is bad enough. Fortunately, the technology to play the damn thing is already mostly obsolete. I'm very grateful not to have to confront that little imbecile's digital record here and now.


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