# The LuLu, Smashwords, Kindle, POD information thread



## MJ Preston

Alright, I have decided to go ahead with digital publishing on my first novel and expect (after a final edit) to start rock and rolling in the month of July. Therefore, I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread that draws on the experiences of others who have ventured into this undiscovered Country (at least for me).

If possible I am going to publish my novel with the following:


Smashwords;
Kindle; and
LuLu
But I would also like to find a  [print on demand] POD distributor (the most economical) so that I can make a softcover available in some of these venues and of course making the novel available at both of my websites.

So, this is where I put it out to the general public here at _*WF*_ and ask for your guidance and experiences in this matter. Any and all information would be appreciated and of course this will not only benefit me, but anyone else venturing down this road.


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## Sam

LuLu is generally accepted to be a very reputable company, and I've had no problems whatsoever in my dealings with them. The only problem I have with them is that they are expensive. You will need to set a high price on your novel to make any kind of profit on it. I retailed one at £9.99. It cost around £7.99 to print it on LuLu. That gave me a profit of roughly two pounds (which is a lot compared to what you'll get with traditional publishers). The problem I found was when an American asked to purchase the novel and had to pay upwards of $20 for it, including posting and package. 

You live in Canada, Mark, so I would advise looking into the American company CreateSpace. It is among the cheapest POD companies out there.


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## MJ Preston

Thanks Sam, I am looking very hard at createspace. There are some interesting Youtube videos to help a newcomer to this. My intent is to saturate the market in the UK US and Canada. I would like to have a POD at LuLu and Createspace. I'm not sure if this is possible (considering TOS) but that way if someone in the UK wants to purchase it or if someone Canada or the US wants to purchase it they will have a more cost effective avenue. I'd like to use my websites as a hub for this.

I'm also considering buying a block of ISBN's as opposed to using the assigned ISBN from createspace. Apparently if you use theirs it limits your listing with traditional book clubs.

Has anyone run a book with createspace? Anyone know the initial start up costs for the drafts?


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## Terry D

I published my novel through CreateSpace.  The only up front costs required are for your proof copies (cost of book plus shipping, in my case about $10).  This will make your book available through Amazon.com and CreateSpace.  For an annual fee of $39 you can make it available to all other retailers, libraries, and schools.  This fee also reduces your cost per book to buy your own copies.  They offer other services (editing, formating, marketing, etc.) for which they charge, but none are required, or even solicited.

I have been very happy with CreateSpace.


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## MJ Preston

Terry D said:


> I published my novel through CreateSpace.  The only up front costs required are for your proof copies (cost of book plus shipping, in my case about $10).



When you buy that first proof is it complete (cover and all)?


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## Terry D

Yes it is.  It is exactaly like the finished product except it has the word 'PROOF' printed on a blank page at the end.


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## MJ Preston

Terry D said:


> Yes it is.  It is exactaly like the finished product except it has the word 'PROOF' printed on a blank page at the end.



Thanks Terry, that is helpful. Does anyone know if LuLu does the same sort of thing?

Oh, and if anyone knows anything about templates regarding cover art, I'd sure appreciate any insight. I already have a cover image I would like to use, but I am pretty sketchy on dimensions and all that.


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## Misa Buckley

You can buy a proof from Lulu.

What I did with a novella of mine was publish solely to myself (private link) for proof-reading purposes. If I'd chosen to, I could have then set the book to public.

At the moment, given the very negative experience I'm having with an ebook publisher, going independant is looking very attractive.


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## MJ Preston

Well folks here is where I am at with my novel. I have received two proofs from Lulu which had some minor errors in them. Somehow I got the page numbers on the wrong side, so I have opted to center them. Other than that the cover design on both the hardcover and paperback look good. I have been bugging Baron regarding Royalties and still haven't quite grasped that end of it.

Createspace is another ordeal altogether. Being Canadian I have to get to file a form with the IRS, otherwise they will withhold 30% of my royalties.

As for the E Books. I have not even started that dog and pony show.

I'll keep you posted.

Mark


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## Baron

On a couple of anthologies I've helped produce I tried to set the pricing on Lulu so that they would sell at cost.  It can't be done.  At best it can be set so that you receive minimal royalties from other retailers.

The tax problems with Createspace are a nightmare for anyone living outside the USA.


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## Sam

MJ Preston said:


> Well folks here is where I am at with my novel. I have received two proofs from Lulu which had some minor errors in them. Somehow I got the page numbers on the wrong side, so I have opted to center them. Other than that the cover design on both the hardcover and paperback look good. I have been bugging Baron regarding Royalties and still haven't quite grasped that end of it.



Are you submitting the manuscript in PDF format, Mark? If you are, your proofs should be exactly the same as the file you submitted. Not sure what's going on there. 



> Createspace is another ordeal altogether. Being Canadian I have to get to file a form with the IRS, otherwise they will withhold 30% of my royalties.



Yeah, that's the major rub with CreateSpace. 



> As for the E Books. I have not even started that dog and pony show.
> 
> I'll keep you posted.
> 
> Mark



I wish you the best of luck with it.


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## J.R. MacLean

I've done the ebook with smashwords and kindle and am doing the hard copy with Create Space. Good experience so far, though challenging as far as the formatting goes. Steep learning curve, as I learned to type on an Apple IIe and so got into bad habits of hitting the return key to space stuff out etc. The easiest and most user friendly of the ebook publishers was Smashwords. They also offer the best royalty stucture. I've shown my CreateSpace proof to experienced and published writers and they have been favorably impressed by the quality. I too have to get than TIN number or whatever it is from the IRS. Kindle actually has the necessary forms available for printout, but I haven't brought myself to fill them out yet.

Good luck with your publishing adventure!

J.R.


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## MJ Preston

Sam W said:


> Are you submitting the manuscript in PDF format, Mark? If you are, your proofs should be exactly the same as the file you submitted. Not sure what's going on there.



Well  actually I submitted in word doc and converted it it to PDF. What happened with the proof is that Lulu inserted a blank page before mine. I think? Screw it, I'm blaming them. Actually, everything worked out except the page numbering. The easiest way to avoid this issue is to center the number at the bottom of the page. A lot of books are laid out that way anyhow.



> Yeah, that's the major rub with CreateSpace.



I am still going to use Createspace, they do have the forms, it's just stupid bureaucracy. The fact that they don't use Paypal is another issue.



> I wish you the best of luck with it.



Thanks,. I'm halfway there. I am forecasting a late July release.

Then I just wait for the trucks full of royalty money.

LOL


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## Ditch

I used Createspace and learned a few things. The first thing to do is download "Openoffice.org" it's a free word processing program and it's a lot better than MS Word or Works in my opinion. In order to submit a book to Createspace it needs to be sized to actual paperback size, 8" X 5" and with Open Office it appears just like a paperback on your screen with two separate pages. When you do go back and edit, you can properly get each new chapter and title in the right place on the page at the top and center.

The tool bar at the top is book maker friendly, you choose the "format" option then "paragraph" and "page" to set your spacing and size. Most of my work had been double spaced as agents require so they can make notes and edits between the lines and actual books are single spaced. Open office makes this easy. Then, when you are finished, you choose "edit" > "Select all" > "File"> "Export as a PDF file" and it is converted for you to a required PDF file.

The ebooks profit well at 70% of list, you can and will get raped on the paperbacks as I learned, I sold 8 copies and made 21 cents while the books sold for up to $14.73. That's because Amazon and Createspace both take a big cut after printing costs. Luckily, both sites have a help option with a "call me now" choice. They are prompt and will tell you how to create a direct link to your estore. Once you drive traffic to your estore they are buying direct from you. My profits now will be over $6.00 on the lowest priced paperback.

Then your next step should be to create a website. If you put direct links to your estore and explain why, people will buy from there. Weebly is free and very user friendly. Today I'm going to try to add key words to my website to drive traffic there. Heres an example, my website.   The Pirate's Cove - Home


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## Ditch

I found an even better and easier website, Yola. Check out my new site..http://thepiratescove.yolasite.com/


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## MJ Preston

Hey Ditch I already have two established websites. 
MJPreston.net
MJ Preston - The Black Galleries

Are you able to put a book store right on your site?


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## Ditch

You can provide a direct link


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## Ditch

Make sure it is a direct link to your estore, not amazon or createspaces store. You will get all of your royalties.


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## MJ Preston

Ditch said:


> Make sure it is a direct link to your estore, not amazon or createspaces store. You will get all of your royalties.



Thanks I'll keep that in mind for sure.


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## Ditch

Look at the website I made on Yola, on the left you will see "online store" if you click there the direct links to my estore are there.  http://thepiratescove.yolasite.com/


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## MJ Preston

Thanks Ditch I'll check it out for sure


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## Ditch

Locke lowered his price of his first kindle book to .99 and made over a million dollars so far. In order to do this, you must chose the 35% royalty not the 70%. People look every day at the bargain books, millions of them. If they like your first they will pay regular price on your others.


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## MJ Preston

So I have ruled out smashwords. 
For the Paper stuff I will be publishing on Lulu and creatspace
For the digital I think Lulu and Kindle are the answer
Kindle formatting seems pretty straight forward.

But what of Lulu, is it only PDF or is there another format I am missing.


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## MJ Preston

Well I am down to the the short strokes on my hard copies and thought I  would give you my personal impressions of the book development  process.

*Lulu Print on  Demand*

The  first hard copy was developed with Lulu and I found a number of things  about their format very  appealing.

*Pro's:*

They  will reformat word documents to PDF and allow you to download the PDF  after you convert<br></li><li>They offer numerous  formats for your book in multiple sizes. I decided on a hardcover and  soft cover version of my novel. Both were relatively easy to upload and  link back to the original  document.
Shipping the proof happened  within 24 hours of my order and I ghot my proofs within a week, not bad  considering our postal service was on  strike.
Lulu will make royalty payment to  Paypal or you can buy your proofs with  Paypal

*Cons:*


My  biggest complaint about Lulu is that their cover templates aren't all  that user friendly, especially if it is your intent to design your own  cover. They, to my knowledge, do not offer a drag and drop template. I  really wanted to use my own artwork so having a blank utility at my  disposal would have been a plus. I managed to muddle through dropping my  pictures onto their template, but I felt somewhat limited as to what I  could add, especially using a wrap around  sleeve.
No overview or feedback. Make sure  if you use this serves to check your work closely and I am not just  talking about grammar. Something I overlooked in my proofs was unwanted  returns in a paragraph. What I mean by this is that at the bottom of  paragraph there were a few sentences that were cut off and appeared a s a  new paragraph.
*Example below: *
      My  biggest complaint about Lulu is that their cover templates aren't allthat user friendly, especially if it is your intent to design your own cover. They, to my knowledge, do not offer a drag and drop template. I really wanted to use my own artwork so having a blank utility<-- cuts here
*  -->*at mydisposal would have been a plus.
[This was a formatting issue I missed with MS  word, but if you don't catch these little snags you'll definitely see  them when your proof arrives or worse, in the finished  product.]

*Overall  Impression
*
Lulu has got a  pretty good system, but if you aren't looking to shell out a few bucks  for editing or formatting services keep in mind that you are on your  own. There are lots of resources on the web to help you with this, thank  goodness for the web! Lot's of helpful answers out there and once you  can't think anymore there's always Girls gone  Wild.
*
Createspace Print on  Demand*

My  second hardcopy was created with Createspace which is owned and operated  by Amazon. In a perfect world if Createspace and Lulu were to marry and  have an offspring we would get the perfect Print on Demand system.  Unfortunately that is not going to happen because I have it on good  authority that Lulu is gay and Createspace is an obsessive stalker. All  kidding aside, createspace has many positives that are negative with  Lulu and vice  versa.

*Pros:*
​

[*=1]The  first positive for Createspace, at least for me is their cover design  feature. You can download a template and essentially make a front and  back cover from scratch. If you know the page length of your manuscript  you can download a template tailored to that size. Awesome I say!  Awesome![*=1]When you suibmit a  book Createspace actually reviews the novel for any potential issues  before you even order your proof. They insist on a 24 review and once  they're done they will send you a detailed report. Hint: If there are  any photos or pictures in your book make sure they are over 300  DPI.
​*Cons*:
​

[*=1]What  were in the cons already. I'm afraid so. First big issue with  Createspace is that they do not have a conversion utility. If your book  is written on word or in rich text format you will have to convert it to  PDF before upload.<br></li><li>Same deal with cover  photos, createspace insists you only use PDf so make sure you have that  figured out. I had a bit of trouble with the jpeg to PDF format, but  adobe has a nice online converter for that and you get four conversions  for free.[*=1]TAXES! TAXES!  TAXERS! Unlike Lulu who gives your royalties and lets you  deal with the Tax man, createspace will hold back 30% unless you file  the proper IRS forms. I am still working this all out so I'll keep you  posted.[*=1]No  Paypal Createspace works only with check and credit card and if your looking  for direct deposit, forget it unless you are dealing with a US Bank. You  have to order a proof before publishing your work, which isn't all that  expensive, but be prepared to whip out a major credit card like Visa  Mastercard or American  Express
​*Overall  Impression*

I think  Createspace needs a bit more time to greow and shed some of the rather  old world thinking. The fact that they don't honour paypal is utterly  silly and the hoops that potential foreign authors have to jump through  will cost them some business, but I think they will  evolve.

So that is what I have so far. 

I'm waiting  for my createspace proofs which should be here any day now. Once I go  through them I will do a final edit and then its onto the Kindle/E Book  in which I will update  you.

*Cheers
Mark*​


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## Baron

You don't have to use the cover creator on Lulu.  If you scroll to the bottom of the page that I've linked to below then you'll find that you can download whatever templates you want to take control of your own format, both for the book itself and for the cover.

Book Publishing - Lulu.com


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## Ditch

MJ, you can download "Open office" for free, it is a great word processing program that makes it simple to size your manuscript to acceptable page size (5X8 inches) and convert it to PDF with five clicks. Once you have the book copied to your 5X8 pages you simply choose Edit > Select All > Copy >File >Export as PDF

Here's a link to open office  OpenOffice.org - The Free and Open Productivity Suite


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## dale

ok. this thread is months old. i'm just starting to look into some of these services. any updated opinions as to
 which service is better between lulu and createspace? has either been upgraded or is there a better option
now available?


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## MJ Preston

dale said:


> ok. this thread is months old. i'm just starting to look into some of these services. any updated opinions as to
> which service is better between lulu and createspace? has either been upgraded or is there a better option
> now available?




Hello Dale

I recently penned an article in the Motley Press called: Lulu vs Createspace: THE UGLY TRUTH

This might give you a bit more insight. If you have any further questions PM me.


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## AmethystBritney

I have hesitation about PoD because I fear the embarrassment I might face when I publish any of my works out there. What if I'm not good enough? That's my fear and I'm just posting it to know you guys' opinions.


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## MJ Preston

AmethystBritney said:


> I have hesitation about PoD because I fear the embarrassment I might face when I publish any of my works out there. What if I'm not good enough? That's my fear and I'm just posting it to know you guys' opinions.



Fear that you will be judged is not the path to becoming a better writer.

Post some of your work here, there are more than enough people around who will offer up their opinion and advice.


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## Baron

If distribution is a key issue then the best route to take is to use Amazon to publish on Kindle and use Lulu for everything else.  This assures the widest distribution with no restriction on author rights.  For non US residents it also means no problem with royalties being held back for tax reasons, as occurs with Createspace.


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## dale

AmethystBritney said:


> I have hesitation about PoD because I fear the embarrassment I might face when I publish any of my works out there. What if I'm not good enough? That's my fear and I'm just posting it to know you guys' opinions.



i can't think like that. if i think like that, i may as well not even try. i mean, if nothing else, having a single
copy of my own work on my bookshelf will appeal to my narcissism. ha ha

what i'm basically getting from this thread and the helpful article by mj is:

1. it's better to go ahead and use both.
2. if you live in america.......createspace is better, but if you live outside the US, lulu is the better option.

sound about right?


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## MJ Preston

Did you read the article I wrote in Motley?


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## dale

MJ Preston said:


> Did you read the article I wrote in Motley?



yes. and thanks. so if you put the same book on both places, it doesn't conflict with any publishers rights?
i was thinking to just go with createspace 1st...then maybe using both if i feel really good about the finished product there.


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## Baron

It pays to read the small print in the Createspace terms and conditions.  There are clauses concerning the author's rights which I find questionable.  This link shows the availability of my book using my own formula.


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## MJ Preston

Baron said:


> This link shows the availability of my book using my own formula.



Shameless plug.:razz:


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## Galen

MJ Preston, thank you very much for your detailed summary of the top self-publishers. While I have been to several self-publishing sites, it is helpful to be a more experienced perspective. Thanks, G


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## MJ Preston

> *Originally posted by Galen* MJ Preston, thank you very much for your detailed summary of the top  self-publishers. While I have been to several self-publishing sites, it  is helpful to be a more experienced perspective. Thanks, G​




No problem whatsoever. Now go get yourself a *free e-copy of my boo*k and tell ten people about it.​


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## AmethystBritney

MJ Preston said:


> Fear that you will be judged is not the path to becoming a better writer.
> 
> Post some of your work here, there are more than enough people around who will offer up their opinion and advice.




Hello, Mr. Preston. Thanks for your kind reply and encouragement. No, it's not the judgment I fear, it's not selling, therefore proving I'm a hack.


I seek out judgment, feedback. I upload videos to YouTube rendering random opinions about anything pop culture, all the time. I hope I don't get in trouble for mentioning YouTube because in other sites that name is forbidden, but hey...what I fear is people showing me they don't like my stuff through the sales. That's different. Negative opinions, even destructive ones, help me become better. I've learned to twist the negative around to turn it into positive.


Thanks to everyone and have a great day!
Magali.


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## MJ Preston

AmethystBritney said:


> Hello, Mr. Preston. Thanks for your kind reply and encouragement. No, it's not the judgment I fear, it's not selling, therefore proving I'm a hack.



This insecurity is one all writers have. Not making sales does not necessarily mean that you are a "hack". Walk into any bookstore or library and look around at the magnitude of books. That is only a thumbnail sketch of the amount of competition you have. You should endeavor above all else to be read, if you can achieve that then all that other stuff is inconsequential.


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## AmethystBritney

dale said:


> i can't think like that. if i think like that, i may as well not even try. i mean, if nothing else, having a single
> copy of my own work on my bookshelf will appeal to my narcissism. ha ha
> 
> what i'm basically getting from this thread and the helpful article by mj is:
> 
> 1. it's better to go ahead and use both.
> 2. if you live in america.......createspace is better, but if you live outside the US, lulu is the better option.
> 
> sound about right?




Hello. Sorry for not using the multi-quote function this time. Mods may go ahead and edit if this causes confusion or anything I didn't intend it to.


Like I said, it's the sales that will show how poor or promising a writer I might be. I might be shooting myself in the foot if I try both PoD and commercial publishing at the same time with the same work because the moment you publish a work PoD, you kill first-publication rights. At least that's what I read in another writer's forum, which name I prefer to withhold. I am going to other writers' forums seeking out advice and opinions on this. I tried createspace and lulu before, and you guys are absolutely right about both. I like createspace better. While they don't offer the 4x7 book size I like for layout, their covers are more customizable and the end product is, well personally it looks better to me. Formatting for me is easy, for me, I reiterate. All I have to do is open the original MS in Word, format it in final-book form, change the size of the page to the size I want to use in CS, save that document as a new, separate document, converting it to PDF, and uploading the final product when it's time for the new book creation, after formatting the cover. Am I taking the right path here when it comes to formatting?


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## MJ Preston

AmethystBritney said:


> Hello. Sorry for not using the multi-quote function this time. Mods may go ahead and edit if this causes confusion or anything I didn't intend it to.
> 
> 
> Like I said, it's the sales that will show how poor or promising a writer I might be. I might be shooting myself in the foot if I try both PoD and commercial publishing at the same time with the same work because the moment you publish a work PoD, you kill first-publication rights. At least that's what I read in another writer's forum, which name I prefer to withhold. I am going to other writers' forums seeking out advice and opinions on this. I tried createspace and lulu before, and you guys are absolutely right about both. I like createspace better. While they don't offer the 4x7 book size I like for layout, their covers are more customizable and the end product is, well personally it looks better to me. Formatting for me is easy, for me, I reiterate. All I have to do is open the original MS in Word, format it in final-book form, change the size of the page to the size I want to use in CS, save that document as a new, separate document, converting it to PDF, and uploading the final product when it's time for the new book creation, after formatting the cover. Am I taking the right path here when it comes to formatting?



   [h=1]*The 2012 Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award*[/h]       *We'll start accepting General Fiction and Young Adult Fiction entries on January 23, 2012. Visit CreateSpace to learn more.* 

                    [h=2]On the Contest[/h]The Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award brings together talented writers, reviewers, and publishing experts to find and develop new voices in fiction. The 2012 international contest will award *two grand prizes*:  one for General Fiction and one for Young Adult Fiction. Each winner  will receive a publishing contract with Penguin, which includes a  $15,000 advance.
*Open submissions for manuscripts will begin on January 23, 2012 and run through February 5, 2012.* If you're an author with an unpublished or previously self-published novel waiting to be discovered, visit CreateSpace to sign up for regular contest updates. 
See the official contest rules, or read details on how to enter.


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## AmethystBritney

Since I stink at multi-quoting, here I am editing my last message to respond.


Mr. Preston:



Wow, that's even more encouragement for me! You're right, PoD exists for a reason. Commercial publishing is not what it's cracked up to be. Since my series Forever or Never, that's the title, at least the first few books are not meant for publication, I might want to try PoD for those, for the first  three volumes of the series at least, the MS's set in the 1960's. I am working on that now. So far the MS has 129,000/420,000 words, but I plan to divide that whole MS into 3 different books of approx 144k words each because I enjoy writing large books. I can go ahead and do that because each tome is dealing with a different predicament my main characters are facing. I am going to give it a try to see how people like it, and based on that I will move forward using the same arrangements for other volumes in this seemingly never-ending series which takes place from the years 1960's all the way to 2011. Once again, sorry for the annoyance my lack of multi-quoting skills have caused. Goodnight, everyone!


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## MJ Preston

Call me Mark. Mr Preston makes me feel old.


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## WDLady

Thank you for this thread.  I found it very informative.  I too plan on self-publishing someday, so this information is still very helpful to me in making the right decisions about which company to choose.  I'll probably still go with Createspace and Kindle.


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## boboratory

AmethystBritney-

   You should not judge the quality of your work by the number of copies it sells. There are many talented writers who unfortunately don't sell enough to support themselves, it does not make them less talented, just less read. If you are looking for a temperature gauge on your success, talk to people that read the work, and even then, give yourself the opportunity to meditate on their feedback objectively (as you can) and decide if you can concur.

   You're not a hack if you are willing to work, and sometimes becoming a better writer takes work.




AmethystBritney said:


> Hello, Mr. Preston. Thanks for your kind reply and encouragement. No, it's not the judgment I fear, it's not selling, therefore proving I'm a hack.
> 
> 
> I seek out judgment, feedback. I upload videos to YouTube rendering random opinions about anything pop culture, all the time. I hope I don't get in trouble for mentioning YouTube because in other sites that name is forbidden, but hey...what I fear is people showing me they don't like my stuff through the sales. That's different. Negative opinions, even destructive ones, help me become better. I've learned to twist the negative around to turn it into positive.
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone and have a great day!
> Magali.


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## Blue Road Blogger

This is just the reason I wanted to be a oart of this forum.  Great info from people who have been there promoting and publishing their work, and discussion from others heading in that direction.
Thanks for the insight!  I will probably be looking at doing digital publishing.  PoD sounds a bit exhaustive?  Again, I appreciate all the ideas and encouragement found here!


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## L M Weaver

Hello I have just uploaded my first novella to Smashwords and had to resubmit a few times to get the format right. The user guide is good but a such a length that I started nodding off half way through. It is very in depth but only if you are using Word. I used OpenOffice and couldn't find what they were going on about with the layout requirements. 

I also can't find a way to view my own book to see how it now appears on various devices.


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## MJ Preston

L M Weaver said:


> I also can't find a way to view my own book to see how it now appears on various devices.



Depending on the format you can use other programs to view your files.

For ePub's you can use Calibre which is free to download.
For PRC files which are Kindle you can download a free kindle reader for your computer
And PDF will read in any browser.


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## MJ Preston

Blue Road Blogger said:


> This is just the reason I wanted to be a oart of this forum.  Great info from people who have been there promoting and publishing their work, and discussion from others heading in that direction.
> Thanks for the insight!  I will probably be looking at doing digital publishing.  PoD sounds a bit exhaustive?  Again, I appreciate all the ideas and encouragement found here!



Actually I found POD to be the easiest of all, especially with Lulu. All you have to do is format your word to meet the specifications. There's tons of free helpful articles on that. Converting to ePub and Kindle is a bit trickier.


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## kennyc

Thanks all for the wealth of info in this thread.


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## MJ Preston

Hey folks just a quick update on createspace. In the Motley article I wrote: LULU vs CREATESPACE I mentioned that if you purchase their Pro-Plan for $39.00 that you get your books at a reduced rate. 

Here's the quote:


> *Purchasing Copies: The Breakdown.*
> Lulu – Based on a purchase of 27 Copies
> Subtotal:        $297.96
> Shipping:        $70.19
> Tax Collected:   $0.00
> ——-
> Total:           $367.19
> Createspace – Based on a purchase of 27 Copies
> Subtotal:        $147.96
> Shipping:        $48.19
> Tax Collected:   $0.00
> ——-
> Total:           $196.15
> Even when you add in the annual Pro-plan cost of $39.00 your total  cost with Createspace is: $235.15. And you don’t pay that again for  another year so if you order 100 books the rate stays the same.



Createspace has retired the pro-plan, but made the advantages of it including: wider distribution, lower cost books and higher revenues is now available to all writers who choose to publish with them.

PS I'm not working for Createspace. If you check out the Motley Article keep that in mind. No more $39.00 annual fee.


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## Baron

Createspace isn't such a good option for those based outside of the US.  There are taxation problems and drastic increases in shipping costs.  As Lulu have local printers and distributors in several regions, this makes them a far better option for non US residents.


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## MJ Preston

Baron said:


> Createspace isn't such a good option for those based outside of the US.  There are taxation problems and drastic increases in shipping costs.  As Lulu have local printers and distributors in several regions, this makes them a far better option for non US residents.



I guess it's really a balancing act. I have found in Canada that createspace meets my needs as far as ordering my own books. I do not pay tax on those books by the way. The issue of IRS withholding 30% for non-US citizens is definitely a sticking point. You can avoid this by getting an ITN number, but that in itself is a pain.

Out of interest, has anyone tried to ship from createspace to the UK or Europe? 

I found shipping to be much cheaper than Lulu as well a wholesale purchase being much cheaper.

It would benefit Createspace to set up shop in a few of the Countries it publishes for. A POD printer in the UK or even Canada would reduce their costs as well.


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## Frances

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## markcarraway

I looked at LuLu and several other companies before settling on createspace. I have to say I was rather pleasantly surprised at the quality of the final product and the affordability. The products I looked at with LuLu were saddle-stitched with cheap paper and ridiculously priced at that. The createspace books were perfect bound with excellent quality and I really have a hard time understanding how they make money at all on books that they sell to the Author (which seem to be priced very near cost) 

I live in the US and so payment has not been an issue, but on the other hand, I have yet to be paid a dime of commissions on my UK Sales on KDP!


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## PaulMcElligott

FYI, creating PDF's for CreateSpace...  I've used the free doPDF printer driver to create my PDF's. It's superior to the converter available in MSOffice.  The PDF output in OpenOffice is also supposed to be much better than the one in MSOffice. Both are free and both work.


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## bo_7md

Baron said:


> Createspace isn't such a good option for those based outside of the US.  There are taxation problems and drastic increases in shipping costs.  As Lulu have local printers and distributors in several regions, this makes them a far better option for non US residents.



LuLu website state a 30% withholding, just like create space. I've heard several people say LuLu doesn't do it, but I think this applies to countries that have an active tax treaty with the U.S. 

Lulu - What is the royalty withholding rate for Foreign E... - Connect
Lulu - How do I get a W-9 or a W-8BEN on file at Lulu? - Connect


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