# Best way to write about sex?



## cinderblock (Jun 13, 2016)

Just wanted to gauge fellow writers' opinion on sex scenes and if there're any "absolutes" for constituting a good sex scene. I'd especially appreciate the opinion of those who're somewhat well-versed in classic literature. 

I always thought good sex scenes were hard to write because I had the idea they had to be dealt metaphorically/poetically without being cliche/cheesy/euphemistic (avoiding common lingo like "thrust," "engorged," "throbbing," etc), which is a very delicate balance. I don't think I've ever read a sex scene from a commercial work that was trying to strike this balance but unintentionally comes off cheesy (Murakami comes to mind). 

Not that the last two books I read contained such lingo, but they did include some unbridled sex scenes: Houellebecq's Submission and Bataille's Story of the Eye. These two books are pretty "secure" when it comes to the sacred matter of sex, completely unabashed. Submission's sex scenes could've been written by a 12 year old. Bataille's sex scenes to me read very pulpy. 

But Houellebecq is considered avante garde, and the rest of Submission is written very well, no denial there. Perhaps this is why it works? Because you know he's a solid writer and the so the sort of crassness and vulgarity is interpreted as counter-culture and counter-pretentious? You could tell this author's read a lot of classics and he takes inspiration from them - he makes a lot of references to Huysman, Nietche and some others. I myself am still very far from working through a lot of the classics, so I'm pretty clueless as to how the legendary authors of the pre-18th, 18th, 19th, early 20th century wrote about sex. I imagine it was a lot less poetic and pretentious and a lot more "I-fucked-her-in-the-ass."

Same with Bataille, although I'm not really sure what kind of author Bataille is. I've only read one of his books (Story of the Eye), and the majority of his glowing reviews are written by an esoteric/niche demographic that seems to appreciate any work that rebels against the largely commercial/status quo books. Granted, the book has inherent allusions and symbolism and all, but honestly, we can say that about anything these days, right? We justify anything questionable as being a metaphor or commentary on something. Again, I've only read one book by Bataille. Maybe he's a very good writer. For about ten pages of the book or so, he suddenly switches to a very dense/super literary writing style a la Nabokov (and it's "okay guy, we get it, you've proven you can write really, really literarily when you feel like it"), so perhaps it makes it okay for him to write these sort of pulpy sex scenes in a manner of he-knows-the-rules-so-he's-allowed-to-break-em.  

I guess my question is, when is it okay to just write unabashed sex scenes? I'm assuming it's only justifiable if you've demonstrated in the rest of the story that you know what you're doing. Otherwise, it's relegated as worthless smut. For instance, I've never read 50 Shades, but I assume a lot of fanfiction sex scenes would be relatable? But 50 Shades is bashed by the literati, whereas Bataille is celebrated. Perhaps it's the amount of time that has passed, and it seems with time, even flops turn into cult classics. Maybe 50 Shades will be embraced by the literati/hipsters in 50+ years? Or not, because so far as I can tell, the author has yet to demonstrate an inkling she could write competently (when she feels like it).


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## H.Brown (Jun 13, 2016)

In regards to 50 shades (which i have read) I think what makes it worse is that it was originally Twilight fan fiction about bella and edwards sexual relationship, couple that with the bad gramma and short sentences it is wildly criticised for more than just its sex scenes. However I have also read other authors writing that uses sexual content that showcase their own writing ability, I think that it is a very fine line between smutty and good you just have to be very selective with how many sex scenes you include but I defintaly agree that you must showcase your writing ability, as again with 50 shades remember there are more than three different words to convey sex, also Id personally say to stay away from bdsm as it has been overdone these last couple of years.

What did you have in mind?


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## PrinzeCharming (Jun 13, 2016)

As much as I want to engage with this post, I have to leave for my sister's high school graduation. JenHLewis created a thread titled, "Soft Sex Scene." You might gain some insight there. I will definitely return to this thread. I have a lot to contribute.


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## afk4life (Jun 13, 2016)

I'll first start by trying to scrub the mis-spelling of bad grammar as "bad gramma" above out of my head lol, that's not a sex scene I want to think about (though it did work in _Harold and Maude_). I don't think it's something to avoid just make realistic. It's never like in the movies, it's generally pretty clumsy if it's realistic. The occasional elbow in the eye, etc. When I write them I can get pretty explicit but focus more on the feelings of the characters and make it human. Like for example one of the people tries to do something romantic and ends up accidentally tickling the other and they start laughing uncontrollably which breaks up the mood but doesn't. I don't know if I agree with



> it's only justifiable if you've demonstrated in the rest of the story that you know what you're doing



I think it's like any other plot device. Ask yourself if it furthers the story or character development. It's more complicated because you've got to make it work for two (or more lol) characters, I mean it's just like in life. Sex is like the ultimate form of trust in someone. And by bringing it into the story, you're telling your reader that these people trust one another. And you can flip that around to show that trust ended up being misplaced, or you can use it over time to show the sex was super intense and faded to being mechanical, or perhaps the opposite where it's still just as good. Or you can use it as an extremely depressing plot device where no one really cares it's just something they do. It's a ten-ton hammer of a plot device.

I would very much discourage your presumption about it being "smut." That's using a jumping off point (no pun intended) that sex is bad. If you have difficulty watching unsubtle sex scenes in NC-17/UK-18 movies this is a path you might not want to go down (er, oops). You'll just frustrate yourself (okay, sorry, the puns write themselves). You've got to be able to handle the tone shift without your writing style suddenly changing. You can't have most of the novel be written minimalist and suddenly you've got this flowery sex scene. You've got to be extremely good at getting emotions across for it to work.

And how you'll know you've written it well? If you end up giggling like a teenager looking at his first soft porn video or needing a cold shower suddenly. That is, I would say, if not an absolute, the goal and reason for a sex scene.


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## H.Brown (Jun 13, 2016)

I apologise about the spelling mistake on grammar: 1. I'm using my tablet and it likes to autocorrect to the wrong spelling sometimes and 2. I do suffer from dyslexia and some of my spelling mistakes slip through my reread, I will check my spellings.

Sent from my K011 using Tapatalk


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## jenthepen (Jun 13, 2016)

No problem, H. I think afk4life was just making a joke about 'bad gramma' which equates to _bad grandma_ in the uk. Small typos happen all the time and I think we all knew what you meant.


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## H.Brown (Jun 13, 2016)

I'm not very good with sarcasm when it is spoken to me lol but I knew it was not a dig or anything I'm happy to have my misspellings point out though 

Sent from my K011 using Tapatalk


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## afk4life (Jun 13, 2016)

Lol, it's no big deal you just made a typo that was in this instance extremely funny. I would however advise against autocorrect on anything discussing sex. That never ends well...



H.Brown said:


> I apologise about the spelling mistake on grammar: 1. I'm using my tablet and it likes to autocorrect to the wrong spelling sometimes and 2. I do suffer from dyslexia and some of my spelling mistakes slip through my reread, I will check my spellings.
> 
> Sent from my K011 using Tapatalk


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## Tired (Jun 13, 2016)

Personally, I think that scenes of such intensity need a balance of metaphors/symbolism and raw, maybe even "vulgar" terminology (i.e., as you had originally said, thrust, throbbing, etc). It also depends greatly on the people engaging in such a sacred act. Are they newly weds? Younger adults who are madly in love? A couple just getting to know each other? Or, are the people being written about just in it for the sex? The terminology and vocabulary surrounding the act and the voice of the writer can help push the mood and feel along, bringing together the proper feelings the author is trying to convey. 

As afk4life said, "sex is [like] the ultimate form of trust in someone".


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## Deafmute (Jun 13, 2016)

http://www.writingforums.com/group.php?groupid=94 is a group that was created as a result of this exact conversation


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## Aquilo (Jun 13, 2016)

50 Shades is a dubious representation of the BDSM lifestyle, and it's why it's partially frowned upon. It promotes an unhealthy No means Yes culture, to which in BDSM  anything that isn't consensual is clear abuse and nothing to do with BDSM. It's the difference between writing blind for titillation or getting the facts right and respecting the lifestyle you represent. Blind quantity v quality. 

One thing you learn is that readers get bored very quickly with reading sex. It's like everything else: it has to work with plot and characterization in a realistic way. And like crafting plot and characterization, writing about sex takes skill. Don't force something that might not come naturally: readers will spot it a mile off.

If you haven't read much of genre fiction and the sex in romance there, how do you know what the common lingo is in that neck of the writing woods?  How can you compare what you think is bad and good if you've only read one side?


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## aj47 (Jun 13, 2016)

If you're not familiar with what your contemporaries are doing in your genre, that may be a good place to start.  What works won the genre awards the last few years? What were the runners up? Read some or all of them if you haven't, and see how sex was handled.  People can tell you how to write all day long, but reading what successful authors have written will show you what works.


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## J Anfinson (Jun 13, 2016)

Do what the story requires. Just don't write a sex scene for the sake of adding sex or for shock value. If it's integral to the story, run with it however detailed it needs to be.


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## Jigawatt (Jun 13, 2016)

Are you trying to evoke arousal? The magic behind sex is the loss of inhibition and the escalation of intimacy - evidenced by characters acting out of character, opening-up emotionally, focusing upon, and stimulating an emotional response in the other.


Imagine you and your partner having dinner. It’s an informal affair. You are both wearing jeans and a casual shirt. After dinner, you decide to go for a walk on the beach and watch the sunset. Your partner wants to feel the wet sand underfoot, so off come the shoes and the socks. Your partner walks toward the water, squishing the wet sand between the toes. A wave slides up the beach. Your partner hops. Too late, the water sloshes the cuff of the jeans, wetting half-way up the shins. You both laugh. Your partner shrugs a shoulder, turns and walks toward the water. Another wave slides up the beach. Your partner stands and lets the wave slosh the jeans. The water wets the jeans above the knees. Your partner unbuttons the jeans, steps out, then tosses them at you. With a motion of the hand to follow, your partner wades into the ocean. You remove your shoes and socks and follow. You and your partner finish undressing in the water, one assisting the other.


This is the part of the sex scene to get right. Draw this part out. Let your characters simmer in desire. But don’t overdo it, because the reader might not share in the same turn-ons of your characters. Go too long and you risk boring the reader. The final act of sex is born out of this, first, as desperation, then, as fury. Describe this brief, final moment. Simile can work. You can also use one of your “banging” words here. But pick a good one. The characters abandon inhibition, so too should the writer. Just don’t overdo it.


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## Jay Greenstein (Jun 13, 2016)

Jennie Cruisie, who writes romance has an interesting view.

First, like any other scene, it must serve a plot function, and hopefully, character development. But she mentioned another point I found telling. She says that unless things go wrong, or go in unexpected ways for the protagonist, it's just sex.

In the film, _What Women Want_, Mel Gibson develops the ability to read women's minds. And at one point, he's busily seducing Helen Hunt's character. Had it gone as expected it would have been a bit of titillation. But it doesn't. As he's kissing her she's wondering about her favorite TV shows, and other things, stunning Gibson's character, and placing him into a mode where he's saying, in effect, "I am going to drive every damn thought out of your head and make your brain explode!" And he does, giving the scene ten times the impact, and driving the plot in new directions for them both.

My personal advice is to focus on emotion, not plumbing.

And finally, apropos of nothing meaningful, a writer, who's name I forget, was writing porn to pay the bills for a time. And one day he found himself typing, "She grabbed my throbbing sock." When he realized what he'd done he fell down laughing. He claims that it ruined him for porn, because he could never again take it seriously.


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## Kyle R (Jun 13, 2016)

I agree with those who say to focus on the purpose of the scene. Really, a sex scene is like any other scene, in that regard: there should be a reason for including it.

Is it for steamy, touch-yoursef-while-you-read titillation? Or to show the characters taking a new step in their relationship? Perhaps it's a point in the story where the protagonist makes a poor choice? Different reasons lead to different kinds of scenes, and usually different kinds of writing styles, as well.

If you keep your reasoning in mind, you'll likely have a good idea of how you want to write it. :encouragement:


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## DaBlaRR (Jun 13, 2016)

Personally. I don't like writing sex scenes. First and foremost for my type of writing it slows my story and I don't find it important. I'm very brief, almost to the point of saying: "They had sex"… not that brief, but you get the point.


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## PenCat (Jun 14, 2016)

I see nothing wrong with the use of "vulgar" language in this context, but the story in which it happens ought to dictate that. If the story tells us simply that a woman became pregnant, then we don't need to know about throbbing parts and juices and thrusting. We all know how it happens. We know there's juice, and throbbing/thrusting.

But if the story and scene require down and dirty, I say go for it. Down n dirty is not a form that everybody can handle.

There is a sex scene in a story by an author I like..not a bad book but IMO this author doesn't excel with such scenes, nor with dialogue. IIRC, the author used the ever-clumsy and extremely un-sexy, "he pushed his manhood inside of her."

I mean, really! 

I'd personally rather shorthand it with something like, 'they writhed on the bed" and let the reader patch in the rest.

Maybe it comes down to whether you can pull it off or not. if your sex-writing gets other people all hot and sweaty, and that's your goal....then bring forth ye and multiply those pages!!


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## afk4life (Jun 14, 2016)

Well if there's ever so many intended or unintended puns or a thread got more attention lol. Okay my take is eesh just make it real *NSFW*



> I'm not sure I'm ready for this at all but I'm like okay and yep he's got my jeans down and oh shit I just knocked the lamp over and I guess it won't start a fire but f it if it does and I guess this was spose to happen in my bed but it didn't and wow that goes too quick and he's just smiling a sticky smile and I'm just getting my breath and I think he's gonna freak but he's just laughing cos it went so quick. I start to pull my jeans up and he's like why and I can't really answer that question and now he's kissing me again cos we both got all our education off of pornos and now the futon slides out and he gets launched on the floor and I'm like are you okay and he says "yeah" and he's laughing cos this is f'd up and I drop on him on the floor and kiss him and yeah I can taste me but I can taste the red wine, Pinot Noir, we had with dinner and the cilantro and everything that makes him him and f--- this is freaking incredible and every atom of me is telling me I love him and I don't even care when it starts to pour rain on us cos the sex doesn't matter it's just kissing him and yeah we do it til our tongues hurt and then suddenly it's dawn and I don't want the sun to come up cos that means he's sposed to get out of bed.


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## Aquilo (Jun 14, 2016)

astroannie said:


> People can tell you how to write all day long, but reading what successful authors have written will show you what works.



The whole issue is that heat levels differ across successful novels in lit fiction. There's a point where research stops because you see that and discussion is needed to see which possible level works for the author. What works for a successful author might not work for the author learning the trade, and that's when asking advice helps. As you said, the op is already reading in his genre, but there's still uncertainty. Peer advice shouldn't be discounted so easily when the author has already proven they're reading their genre and still finding the decision hard.


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## aj47 (Jun 14, 2016)

I think I wasn't clear.  

The two things writers need to do are *write* and *read*.  Too many authors think that the reading part is optional, and I wanted to specifically bring that into the equation. And to stress that it's not just *that* you read, but *what* you read.  If your genre is urban fantasy, science fiction, paranormal romance--doesn't matter--if you aren't reading the good contemporary stuff in your genre, you're handicapping yourself.  And this applies directly to sex scenes because, well, sex happens. Will every sex scene in a literary award-winning book be perfect?  No, but that's why you read more than the one.  

As has been said, the scene needs to serve a purpose, like any other scene.  But seeing someone type that statement and reading examples of it in action are different things.


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## bdcharles (Jun 14, 2016)

As others have said, I think that unless you are writing erotica whereby it is a core thing, it needs to be done relevant to the story, so it happens for a reason - be it character development, plot twist, both, or some other narrative purpose. Otherwise it risks sort of scuppering your story and undermining it, making it less serious and plausible. In terms of stylistics, the world of books is littered with heaving this, ample that and throbbing the other, so the bar is low and cliches are marked-out for you to avoid. I suppose just write it as you would anything; intelligently, with a view to making the reader feel what the character is going through. Draw on your own experience or, indeed, imagination - and of course get more experience if you need it. For research, of course


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## TheWritingWriter (Jun 14, 2016)

When you should write about unabashed sex scenes. Hmm... I think there are a few things to consider. 

Subject matter: If your novel is about a character on a soul journey who falls in love, really a detailed hot sex scene isn't necessary, but you can write it if you want. You could be rather brief & poetic, if you'd like. No need spending 4,000 words on something we already know is probably happening if it's not important. But if you want your reader to know about that one birth mark on Fabio's butt, go for it. Creative expression & all that. 

Your comfort level: Some writers just can't. They can't stomach the idea of sitting down & writing about the steamy stuff. They'll read it & heck, they'll do it in real life, but writing it? Some just can't or plain don't wanna. There are others who love sex. They love it so much they write about it. For some, it's really therapeutic. 

Your audience: Obviously, if you're writing for 12 year olds, don't. But if you're aiming for college kids & up, go for it. There's a very special window between teen & young adult, just take that one as you go. Really you can't choose who picks the book up, at the end of the day, but who you plan to market your story to matters if there's detailed sex in it. 

Finally, write a good story.  Write it well, and throw sex in it. Smut is just a book that delivers sex. There's often no character development,  interesting story points, and a lot are badly written. You can have a book involving sex & it not be smut. How you deliver your sex will set you apart & will earn the respect of your peers and readers. And sex is part of human nature. It's not that far off to write about PEOPLE where sex happens.


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## Patrick (Jun 14, 2016)

They had sex. Sex, boyz.


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## PrinzeCharming (Jun 14, 2016)

Good morning,

You ruffled a few sheets in here already. I am now going to contribute to this discussion further. 



cinderblock said:


> ... if there're any "absolutes" for constituting a good sex scene.



_Absolutes. _Define your ideal "good sex scene." If you force making love between two characters, words are just words, and readers will be disconnected from the bond. Write any intimate scene as an attempt for two characters to develop private experiences with each other. Sex should not be treated as an option. If anyone is treated as an option, the reader may misinterpret this attempt as two characters being primitive. I don't know about you, but nobody is ever an option. Always a priority. When writing sex scenes, we should not focus about the quality (yet). We should focus on the bond between the two characters. Sex should not be treated any different from reality. How else would you depict a non-fictional sex scene? Before I write any sex scene, I have to enjoy my characters. I have to love them before I strip them down. I have to reach inside their minds, build them up before breaking them down into orgasmic bliss. When writing sex scenes, I never make something happen if I haven't experienced it. The most powerful tool is to write what you know, and know what you write. 



cinderblock said:


> I always thought good sex scenes were hard to write because I had the idea they had to be dealt metaphorically/poetically without being cliche/cheesy/euphemistic (avoiding common lingo like "thrust," "engorged," "throbbing," etc), which is a very delicate balance.



Sex scenes aren't hard to write if you truly feel what your characters feel. Don't worry too much about metaphors. Don't beat around the bush to burrow yourself inside the bush. I wouldn't use 'thrust'. Personally, 'thrust' is a forceful word. I try to make love happen. 'Thrust' sounds more primitive. It gives off the vibe of ownership and dominance. If a person welcomes you inside their home, you wouldn't shove the door open. Explore. Engage. Excite. Excel. Engorged? I wouldn't describe any part of my body to be engorged. In terms of girth and erection, simply use 'erect'. Not engorged. An 'engorged shaft' vs. an 'erected shaft'. I feel that 'engorged' is heavier. You are right. Balance is key. Word choice is imperative. 



cinderblock said:


> Submission's sex scenes could've been written by a 12 year old. Bataille's sex scenes to me read very pulpy.



That's what I like the most about word choice and sentence fluency. The more mature and seasoned you are as a writer, the more qualitative you can potentially become when expressing intimate affairs. 



cinderblock said:


> You could tell this author's read a lot of classics and he takes inspiration from them - he makes a lot of references to Huysman, Nietche and some others. I myself am still very far from working through a lot of the classics, so I'm pretty clueless as to how the legendary authors of the pre-18th, 18th, 19th, early 20th century wrote about sex. I imagine it was a lot less poetic and pretentious and a lot more "I-fucked-her-in-the-ass."



Knowledge is power. I don't read too many intimate books, but I do gather my insight from personal experiences. Try to stay away from being too blunt, but be respectful to the characters and their bodies. Treat your characters like future leaders. Treat your characters like family, or even as your own children. Find a connection with them and us that to your advantage. This is why I see my characters as potential relationships. I want to effectively express how I would be with my female MC. I want to depict that I respect her as a person and as a character. I don't ever want to depict the sense of entitlement. 



cinderblock said:


> so perhaps it makes it okay for him to write these sort of pulpy sex scenes in a manner of he-knows-the-rules-so-he's-allowed-to-break-em.


Discover your inner passion. Discover yourself as a lover. When you find this person inside, arrange a meeting to discuss future plans with your inner writer. The two will collaborate together to create something euphoric. Everyone has a unique style. It's never too late to find out for yourself. 



cinderblock said:


> I guess my question is, when is it okay to just write unabashed sex scenes? I'm assuming it's only justifiable if you've demonstrated in the rest of the story that you know what you're doing. Otherwise, it's relegated as worthless smut.


If you know what you're doing, you can still mess up an opportunity to express intimacy effectively. I would never consider anything smut, unless it was intended to be obscene. Are you intending to cause distaste? Are you trying to become offensive to multiple readers? Erotica lures the reader into submission, smut involves rejection. I want my readers to feel naturally relaxed. I want them to have dry mouth. I want them to bite their bottom lip. If you don't want to engage your reader, especially during a sex scene, why bother writing anything intimate? Intimacy is a special bond between two characters in literature. If you can't respect their space, why should anyone else? 



cinderblock said:


> For instance, I've never read 50 Shades, but I assume a lot of fanfiction sex scenes would be relatable?



I don't have the patience to read those books. The movie was mediocre. 



H.Brown said:


> I have also read other authors writing that uses sexual content that showcase their own writing ability, I think that it is a very fine line between smutty and good you just have to be very selective with how many sex scenes you include but I defintaly agree that you must showcase your writing ability, as again with 50 shades remember there are more than three different words to convey sex, also Id personally say to stay away from bdsm as it has been overdone these last couple of years.



You're absolutely right about selection. Treat intimacy as a rewarding moment. Too much can be overwhelming. I am not a big fan of B.D.S.M., but I also agree with that point as well. Select the intimate scenes. Incorporate them into your story to add something special to your story. If the characters aren't rewarding themselves with each other's presence, intimacy is diluted and loses value. 



afk4life said:


> I don't think it's something to avoid just make realistic. It's never like in the movies, it's generally pretty clumsy if it's realistic. The occasional elbow in the eye, etc. When I write them I can get pretty explicit but focus more on the feelings of the characters and make it human. Like for example one of the people tries to do something romantic and ends up accidentally tickling the other and they start laughing uncontrollably which breaks up the mood but doesn't.



That's exactly it. What makes a real sex scene vs. a good scene? I am no expert in amateur porn, but there is a difference between higher quality production to couples' using tripods. The focus should be on feelings. When you want to connect with your readers, there should always be a thought behind everything said and done. You will always have readers who feel that sex isn't just sex. There are feelings involved. I know from personal experience that I crave an emotional and intellectual connection. This is how my writing reflects between characters. You make a great example. By incorporating realistic scenarios, the reader can truly feel the bond between the characters.  



afk4life said:


> I think it's like any other plot device. Ask yourself if it furthers the story or character development. It's more complicated because you've got to make it work for two (or more lol) characters, I mean it's just like in life. Sex is like the ultimate form of trust in someone. And by bringing it into the story, you're telling your reader that these people trust one another. And you can flip that around to show that trust ended up being misplaced, or you can use it over time to show the sex was super intense and faded to being mechanical, or perhaps the opposite where it's still just as good. Or you can use it as an extremely depressing plot device where no one really cares it's just something they do. It's a ten-ton hammer of a plot device.



Yes, you're absolutely correct. A writer has to make the choice between making the sex scene something valuable to the relationship or something that may hinder the relationship. You have to choose either side. Sex shouldn't be expressed and misinterpreted as something two people can engage and carry on. There will be something more, even if you don't express pillow talk after the scene. Sex changes people emotionally. Sex may even change people physically. Sex should always be treated as sex. Whether it's in literature or reality, the writer must develop the characters well enough to engage and understand the value behind their engagement. If the characters didn't trust each other, they're just being rebellious and careless. They're not thinking about the risks involved. If there's an unrequited connection, someone might feel left our and hurt. One might feel something more. The other might just say, "friends with benefits." When humans are involved, sex is more than just primitive. It's more than just a fast food restaurant. Humans don't go in and out, and call it a night. Humans connect with others at a much deeper, more intimate, level. 



afk4life said:


> You've got to be able to handle the tone shift without your writing style suddenly changing. You can't have most of the novel be written minimalist and suddenly you've got this flowery sex scene. You've got to be extremely good at getting emotions across for it to work.



Yes, you're correct. The transitional tone has to be on point. If the writer is expressing the transition from a date to sex, they should at least connect with the reader and guide them into this act smoothly. The writer should, at least, feel comfortable to watch the movie version of their story. If they can't handle their own story as a motion picture, discard and go back to playing with lead tainted toys from China. _I am kidding. _Go out and get fresh air. 



afk4life said:


> And how you'll know you've written it well? If you end up giggling like a teenager looking at his first soft porn video or needing a cold shower suddenly. That is, I would say, if not an absolute, the goal and reason for a sex scene.



I am sorry, but "teen" and "*his *first soft porn video" is awkward here. What you meant to say was, "seeing porn for the first time." Everyone handles porn differently. When I read my own erotica, I am not giggling like a teen seeing porn for the first time. I am sharing it with friends to feed off their reactions. (Sorry Cran. These keywords are now going to leak into Google and attract the wrong crowds via SEO.) 



Tired said:


> Personally, I think that scenes of such intensity need a balance of metaphors/symbolism and raw, maybe even "vulgar" terminology (i.e., as you had originally said, thrust, throbbing, etc). It also depends greatly on the people engaging in such a sacred act. Are they newly weds? Younger adults who are madly in love? A couple just getting to know each other? Or, are the people being written about just in it for the sex? The terminology and vocabulary surrounding the act and the voice of the writer can help push the mood and feel along, bringing together the proper feelings the author is trying to convey.
> 
> As afk4life said, "sex is [like] the ultimate form of trust in someone".



But ... do they _have _to be intense? Writers must find a balance between depicting something softcore or something hardcore. I lean closer to softcore. I don't want my readers to put my book down because they can't handle it. I want them to prolong their experience before hitting the shower. Keep this in mind - if you can balance softcore and effective word choice, you can prolong something intimate perfectly before becoming something intense. You can feed your readers with foreplay. You can provide foreplay to their eyes. Lead them into the right direction. Give them a reason to undress, relax, and unwind. Give them something other writers don't give often. What is it? Discover your inner passion. Nobody can ever be you in the bedroom. 



Deafmute said:


> http://www.writingforums.com/group.php?groupid=94 is a group that was created as a result of this exact conversation



I also created Sensual Writers a few months ago. I was caught up with a lot, so I put it on the back burner. If there's any interest, I'll definitely pursue it. 



Aquilo said:


> 50 Shades is a dubious representation of the BDSM lifestyle, and it's why it's partially frowned upon. It promotes an unhealthy No means Yes culture, to which in BDSM anything that isn't consensual is clear abuse and nothing to do with BDSM. It's the difference between writing blind for titillation or getting the facts right and respecting the lifestyle you represent. Blind quantity v quality.



Yes, you're absolutely right. This comment should also drive the discussion into the types of sex scenes anyone can write. The writer should be aware that all forms of sex can open different doors to communities, lifestyles, and sexual fixations. The writer must respect the people engaged and the activities executed in every category. If someone decides a category seems intriguing, they should conduct research. It will also help if the person actually engages in the act, unless it is illegal*, themselves to truly understand possible feelings. 

_* Be aware of the laws, norms, cultural, and societal customs. 
_


Aquilo said:


> One thing you learn is that readers get bored very quickly with reading sex. It's like everything else: it has to work with plot and characterization in a realistic way. And like crafting plot and characterization, writing about sex takes skill. Don't force something that might not come naturally: readers will spot it a mile off.



You're absolutely right. I cringe when I hear _real _stories behind dates when the girl became bored. No foreplay. Straight to sex. This also included long-term relationships. I was very disappointed to hear this. 



Aquilo said:


> If you haven't read much of genre fiction and the sex in romance there, how do you know what the common lingo is in that neck of the writing woods? How can you compare what you think is bad and good if you've only read one side?



Yes, great point! Get the facts! 

Great discussion guys!


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## JustRob (Jun 14, 2016)

Deafmute said:


> http://www.writingforums.com/group.php?groupid=94 is a group that was created as a result of this exact conversation



Yes, and strangely it has been dormant for a long time even though it gives an opportunity for people to share their written efforts in this area without the usual constraints imposed in the open forums. It is difficult to discuss the specifics here and give examples, but not there. There is a threshold that people seem unwilling to cross to go there and that is reflected in a way in attitudes to sex within literature. Only by straddling the boundaries can we determine where they lie. I have written sex scenes that will never see the light of day, but they have taught me something and those that do get used are the better for it. As with any aspect of writing one has to practise it.

The subject of BDSM has been mentioned here as overworked, but simple dominance and submission go far beyond the realms of sexual activity. In fact BDSM is described in Wikipedia as "interpersonal dynamics", which term must cover most of what we write about. In my rewrite of the second half of my novel I use playful sexual activities of this kind as an analogy for what people do in their everyday lives. How people treat each other mentally is simply magnified by the intimate physical and sexual elements present. As the paranormal nature of my story also separates the physical and mental consequences of events it emphasises that interpersonal dynamics are predominantly mental and the physical aspects do not truly involve the persona at all. If one attempts to light a fire by rubbing two boy scouts together it will most likely be a mental, not physical, conflagration. (Did I really just write that? Oh, conscious flow, let it stand anyway.)

The best way to write about sex is the same as with everything else. Just do it and get opinions from others on your efforts to improve. Just pick your readers carefully. The group that Deafmute mentioned is there for those who seriously want answers. The submissions to it so far have already been, er, broad in content.


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## Winston (Jun 14, 2016)

One word:  Research.


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## cinderblock (Jun 16, 2016)

H.Brown said:


> What did you have in mind?



I'm writing about a celebrity who has sex with random strangers all the time... of course, it isn't what the entire story's about, like Palahniuk's Choke or Bataille's Story of the Eye, but it's an important facet and one whose nature I should've mentioned in the original post, as all the replies have stressed the importance of "trust" and "bond" between the participants, gah...




astroannie said:


> People can tell you how to write all day long, but reading what successful authors have written will show you what works.



That was kind of the point. I'm not a genre reader, so I was looking for suggestions of classical/contemporary non-genre literature with sex scenes akin to what I described in the OP.



PrinzeCharming said:


> Good morning,
> 
> You ruffled a few sheets in here already. I am now going to contribute to this discussion further.
> 
> Great discussion guys!



As always, I bow down to you. You're a very intimate and personal and connected writer, and it's fantastic. My latest writing style has been... detached and sigh-inducing. Thank you for the tremendous help and inspiration. 



JustRob said:


> Yes, and strangely it has been dormant for a long time even though it gives an opportunity for people to share their written efforts in this area without the usual constraints imposed in the open forums. It is difficult to discuss the specifics here and give examples, but not there. There is a threshold that people seem unwilling to cross to go there and that is reflected in a way in attitudes to sex within literature. Only by straddling the boundaries can we determine where they lie. I have written sex scenes that will never see the light of day, but they have taught me something and those that do get used are the better for it. As with any aspect of writing one has to practise it.
> 
> The subject of BDSM has been mentioned here as overworked, but simple dominance and submission go far beyond the realms of sexual activity. In fact BDSM is described in Wikipedia as "interpersonal dynamics", which term must cover most of what we write about. In my rewrite of the second half of my novel I use playful sexual activities of this kind as an analogy for what people do in their everyday lives. How people treat each other mentally is simply magnified by the intimate physical and sexual elements present. As the paranormal nature of my story also separates the physical and mental consequences of events it emphasises that interpersonal dynamics are predominantly mental and the physical aspects do not truly involve the persona at all. If one attempts to light a fire by rubbing two boy scouts together it will most likely be a mental, not physical, conflagration. (Did I really just write that? Oh, conscious flow, let it stand anyway.)
> 
> The best way to write about sex is the same as with everything else. Just do it and get opinions from others on your efforts to improve. Just pick your readers carefully. The group that Deafmute mentioned is there for those who seriously want answers. The submissions to it so far have already been, er, broad in content.



You always have the most idiosyncratic posts. I love it. Please don't ever go away.


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## MzSnowleopard (Jun 16, 2016)

Ask yourself- what level of sophistication am I shooting for? (Shameless plug) In the final chapter of 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers', they discuss this very subject. Page 165 includes an excerpt from Margaret Mitchell's _Gone With the Wind. _I have seen the movie but have yet to read the book.

The excerpt was perfect. I would have broken it into paragraphs but still, the description of the moment was perfect. Darkness is used to aid the description of emotions and there is no mention of lower body part activity. If I were to include sex scene in my work I would take a similar path.

LaKisha Spletzer is the opposite, from the first encounter of the main couple you get a sense of where they're going to end up. When the moment comes, it's no surprise (it's more like "it's about time.") She throws in words and phrases that seem designed for shock-effect that we typically see in stories published in Play Boy / Play Girl. I've told her such and she shrugged it off. I told her that when I was done with the reading the scene I felt so dirty I had to take a shower. She giggled. She is one of those who believe a woman can't be published unless she includes sex in her work. I disagree.

A book can be good without sex, it doesn't have to be there. That said, if a writer is going to include sexual content- they should trust that their readers would get it. Instead of going for the shock effect- as does with her work, try for the more subtle approach where your words churn the imagination of the reader.


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## LazarettoKiddo (Jun 22, 2016)

There's definitely a fine line between erotic fiction and sex within normal fiction, and I think character-based metaphor may be the key here. Using more purple prose for such scenes can help the reader get into the minds of the character or characters involved in the sexual act at hand.


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## Arrakis (Jul 5, 2016)

Personally, sex scenes are not something I write often. For me, their main purpose is to either enrich or expand upon the relationship between the couple. There are two types of mutual sex: sex with a complete stranger, and sex between true soul mates. And frankly, the latter is MUCH less common than the former. That said, when writing sex scenes, I tend to focus more on the emotion rather than the physics. We all know _how_ sex is conducted--that said, in mine opinion it's more interesting to know what the characters _think _and _feel_ (emotionally) during the intercourse.

As Guinan from Star Trek: The Next Generation puts it, "Love is different every time." There are countless different forms of it, which vary from couple to couple. That said, for me it's much more interesting to experiment with all those forms of love, rather than experiment with sexual positions; that's just a small piece.


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## JustRob (Jul 5, 2016)

I find it interesting that discussions on _how_ to write about sex become entangled with _whether_ to write about it. Personally I have little choice. My only partially written trilogy, _The Hermes Culture, _is about a peculiar memetic virus (the best shorthand description that I can think of) which can apparently be transferred between people both through language and sex. In other words it is both a memetic and biological virus, something that one could catch through promiscuous behaviour or by reading particular books, mine included hopefully. Richard Dawkins came up with the idea of religions being purely memetic viruses but the idea of making such a thing sexually transmissible does add "interest" to a story. The title of the trilogy is obviously a play on the several meanings of the word "culture". Biological viruses are themselves not lifeforms as such but merely the information needed to reproduce and propagate themselves. They can therefore be regarded as books that our cells read and become influenced by, which is presumably what Dawkins was getting at. (I have never read his work.) 

With this theme to my story it can sometimes be ambiguous whether I am writing about sexual intercourse or verbal intercourse and often it doesn't matter. In fact in the chapter entitled "Body or mind" a naked girl invites a young man to play with her mind and ...

Although this theme is an essential part of the story and hence sexual encounters are inevitable, they are entirely within the context of the main story and it couldn't possibly be told without their presence. Therefore I have to tackle them in the best possible way to ensure that they are not seen as gratuitous. This is the essence of writing about sex, ensuring that it really is serving a purpose and advancing the story. To put the value of sex scenes into perspective, despite all that I have written here there is only one in the first eighteen chapters of my novel, which constitute a complete story in themselves. So, when it is really appropriate to write about sex one should approach it in much the same way as any other subject, with a clear purpose in mind, and not shy away from the task.

So, with the whether out of the way, back to the question of the how.


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## Grim_L (Jul 5, 2016)

My take is that it you could probably use many things as a guide to writing sex scenes. I myself would research writing that deals with action or even things like dancing or intense conversation even. Anything intense that 2 people are engaged in.


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## JustRob (Oct 29, 2016)

Afterwards, not during.


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## Phil Istine (Oct 29, 2016)

I suppose one answer might be: in the first person, non-fictional.
However, I reckon it depends what you are trying to portray.  If it's about a one-night stand where the main goal is not about a mid or long-term relationship, then maybe it's reasonable to focus more on the physical.  If something more ongoing is desired, then perhaps the focus can be more on empathy, emotional connection etc.
Like a lot of writing, I suppose it can be better to let the reader create some of their own imagery


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## JustRob (Oct 29, 2016)

Phil Istine said:


> Like a lot of writing, I suppose it can be better to let the reader create some of their own imagery.



Always one to try taking things to the extreme, my shortest sex scene was four words, apart from setting up the situation. The girl was already lying naked on the grass inviting the young man to join her so ...

He descended and ascended.

I think that gave the reader enough scope to provide their own imagery, didn't it? The university tutor in English literature who read it commented that it was a good example of less being more. Sometimes the best approach is simply to point the reader's mind in the right direction and let it fill in the details, which it will most likely do in the way that best pleases that reader.

I have mentioned elsewhere that I consider writing very concise poems to be a good way to discipline oneself into writing such concise prose. Come to think of it, that is probably my only reason for writing any poetry at all.

If you prefer to provide all the details yourself, then you must put a lot of effort into getting it right, but why bother? Describing sex could be as pointless as describing a sunset ... although maybe describing sex during a sunset might have some merit. There could be some interesting parallels to draw there.


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## Newman (Nov 11, 2016)

cinderblock said:


> I guess my question is, when is it okay to just write unabashed sex scenes?



Always, it's always ok.

It's not hard - I think honesty is key.


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## KellInkston (Nov 13, 2016)

I know I'm a bit late to the party but I'd like to toss in my coin.

Of the novels I've written, there has only been one actual sex scene, and that was back in a time in which I was afraid to write about it. That said, I'm not an expert on this, but I have written a lot of "sexy" scenes, in which characters are on the cusp of getting groovy but don't quite seal the deal- maybe I have something to contribute.

From what I've written and from what I've read, I've found that the most satisfying sensual scenes involve powerful imagery rather than poetic imagery, though that largely depends on the style and tone of the book. _House of Leaves_ and _The Canterbury Tales_  obviously wouldn't talk about sex in the same way. I feel like one was a bit too crass "YEAH WE FUCKED HELL YEAH" and the other a bit muted poetically (Nether flower, anyone?) so personally I find a midpoint between the two to be preferable to the modern reader. Describing things like scent, taste, sound, sight, and especially touch seem to be staples in good imagery, and it shows in good sexy scenes. That's all I have- Good luck~


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## Book Cook (Nov 13, 2016)

Depicting sex, if it comes along naturally in a story, is important. Much can be revealed about the characters throughout the act. It is a perfect opportunity to describe the intimate feelings or lack of them between the two, or three, or four. It is much more powerful than saying "He loves her." or "She doesn't love him anymore." All of that can be intricately depicted in a sex scene without even mentioning love. But, I will say it again, it must not be forced. It must be weaved into the story as it comes and if it comes at all.

That's as regards the writer. The audience, however, is a different can of worms. As George Martin once said in an interview: “I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.”


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## voltigeur (Nov 13, 2016)

Depends on what you are writing: 

Porn: Grow a mustache and sink into all the depths of depravity that that provides and write all the intimate details. :grin:

Erotica: Same as above but with feelings. :sentimental:

Regular fiction: Shave above mustache, avoid it because it probably just distracts from the story. 

If you are over 50 and try the first or second suggestion please don't show it to anyone we really don't want the visual.   (BTW I'm 57 it applies to me as well.)


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## Cran (Nov 14, 2016)

*Best way to write about sex?*

If by sex, you mean erotic love, then the absolute best way to write such scenes is to be in a hormone-releasing relationship; ie, to fall in love or lust with someone and write as though you are writing to that person.

If that is not possible for any reason, and you have no fond memories of such things, then:



Winston said:


> One word:  Research.


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## escorial (Nov 14, 2016)

what makes an eccentric person probably the fact they don't know they are and the rest just act it out and in away writing about sex and all the other stuff as well is to make the reader feel they are enjoying the authors ability to convey what turns them on...all characters and emotions are only real in the writers and readers mind..writing isn't a mystery is a basic tool  like any other art form.


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## JustRob (Nov 14, 2016)

Cran said:


> *Best way to write about sex?*
> 
> If by sex, you mean erotic love, then the absolute best way to write such scenes is to be in a hormone-releasing relationship; ie, to fall in love or lust with someone and write as though you are writing to that person.



When I gave my angel a sex scene that I'd written to read she collapsed in hysterical laughter. Only very occasionally is that her reaction to our own close encounters although it has been known to happen. Anyway, I tend to write fantasies and wouldn't chance suggesting the things that happen there to her. Many are physically impossible anyway, but at least that means that nobody can say that I got the details wrong. I would agree that one should always write from experience where possible though, regardless of the subject. 

Another good tip is to be the one on top so that you've got somewhere to put the notepad. Actually, come to think of it maybe she does laugh quite often, but I can't think why.


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## thepancreas11 (Nov 14, 2016)

The best way to write about sex:

Honestly.


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## senecaone (Nov 15, 2016)

Sex scenes (in writings other than pornographic works) should be between two characters that have developed a passionate personal relationship over time. In that context the sex scene is a natural outcome to what has progressed throughout the work, after which it either cements their relationship or destroys it, depending on plot.

Once the relationship is developed it becomes believable, and the reader is less likely to be thrown off by "cheesy" or "cliche" prose. (Sometimes "cheesy" or "cliche" is exactly right, when it fits the story style.)


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## kpierce (Nov 16, 2016)

I do believe that sex scenes are one of the easiest ways to make the story interested and intense. It may just have to be that intense so that readers will not get disappointed.


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## caters (Nov 24, 2016)

I honestly don't think sex scenes are good to write explicitly. I imply that it happened by what happened after it and let the reader imagine what happened between the event before and the event after.


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## Ultraroel (Nov 25, 2016)

I think you should only write sex scenes when its inherently important to the relationship of the characters or is part of plot. Else, just let them know they spend the night, no need to get deeply involved


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## JustRob (Nov 25, 2016)

Personally I include a lot of references to people eating cakes in my writing, not a lot of detail but they're clearly very indulgent cakes with no shortage of calories. There's even mention of a woman with the figure of a fashion model tucking into a whole plateful. It is quite possible that she has developed a lasting relationship with them over time as well, but one can't be sure of that. Maybe it is just an occasional fling. I only mention this because we could discuss the merits of including indulgent eating in our writing just as well as sex. In fact the two subjects are sometimes connected, either metaphorically or messily. For my part the cakes and their eating are relevant to my plot, especially whether they have been acquired on a sale-or-return basis, just as the sex scenes are, not that those are arranged on a sale-or-return basis you understand. Regardless of the subject the basic rules are always fundamentally the same, to include what is relevant to the story or required to give it added dimension, to do adequate research and to use the language available in the best way possible to achieve the intended effect within the reader's mind.

Now, if I am to continue writing that other novel in my trilogy I just need to do the research for the scene where a naked couple ski down a mountain of ice cream. I don't think that's a metaphor, although it could be, so the question is just how slippery the ice cream would be and what the ambient temperature would be on the mountain, just as practical considerations. One has to get the details right to make it all sound plausible. So, as it's a black run, what flavour would the ice cream be, liquorice perhaps? Hmm, sometimes the research can get tricky. It's easier to be more conventional I think, but we need to hold the reader's attention.


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## voltigeur (Nov 26, 2016)

I personally avoid explicit sex scenes. Not out of any prudish sensibilities but because it distracts from and cheapens the work. 

When I was doing Improvisational theatre our directors didn't have a hard fast rule of avoiding bad language and lewd situations. It was an easy and guaranteed laugh but no real art to it. 

I learned if you played the situation and relationship honestly with a twist people remembered you.  Your fan base grew much faster and people would come month after month because they wanted to know what you would do next. Plus as a performer it was just more fun. 

Unless you are writing porn or erotica I'd avoid it. It is enough 90% of the time for the reader to know the characters are having sex, without spelling it out.


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