# How Long Do You Edit?



## SueC (Feb 13, 2019)

Hi. I have in the past written some short stories and when - in my mind - I type the words "the end," I save it in a file and go on to the next. Weeks, sometimes months later, I'll pull it up for one reason or another, and start editing - again! Sometimes I feel as if I will never be finished with a story, unless I submit it here or somewhere online. And even then, if it's rejected, I'll spend even more time re-writing, or adding, or changing something. Currently, I am stuck mid-way through a novel, but instead of focusing on what comes next for my characters, I find myself changing a word here and there in the material that's been gone over a million times already. 

Am I just an oddball, or do others do the same thing?


----------



## Terry D (Feb 13, 2019)

Good topic, Sue. I can't read anything I've written without feeling the desire to change something, no matter how old it is. Sometimes it might just be comma placement, or a word here and there, but sometimes I'll tweak whole sections of a story. I'm not sure the final product always benefits from my re-edits, but the urge to make them is always there.


----------



## Guard Dog (Feb 13, 2019)

I've been editing off and on since the beginning.

As for how long the whole thing will take... 

...I'll have to get back to ya and let ya know when I'm finished.



G.D.


----------



## SueC (Feb 13, 2019)

Well that was a welcome relief! Thanks, Terry D and G.D.


----------



## bdcharles (Feb 13, 2019)

SueC said:


> Hi. I have in the past written some short stories and when - in my mind - I type the words "the end," I save it in a file and go on to the next. Weeks, sometimes months later, I'll pull it up for one reason or another, and start editing - again! Sometimes I feel as if I will never be finished with a story, unless I submit it here or somewhere online. And even then, if it's rejected, I'll spend even more time re-writing, or adding, or changing something. Currently, I am stuck mid-way through a novel, but instead of focusing on what comes next for my characters, I find myself changing a word here and there in the material that's been gone over a million times already.
> 
> Am I just an oddball, or do others do the same thing?



You're not an oddball - I could edit and tweak for ever.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Feb 13, 2019)

I would edit forever, but then a member who used to be a journalist introduced me to the concept of 'Good enough for copy'. When writing for something like a newspaper or magazine that has a set publishing date things have to be in on time, so one edits to the point of it being 'Good enough for copy' before submitting. It has saved me a lot of grief, having a 'reason' to put things down, like the rest of you I could go on for ever changing odd words with a questionable degree of improvement; look at it, ask yourself 'Would I pass it on to the Editor in that state?', and if the answer is 'Yes' put it aside to get on with something else.


----------



## luckyscars (Feb 14, 2019)

SueC said:


> Hi. I have in the past written some short stories and when - in my mind - I type the words "the end," I save it in a file and go on to the next. Weeks, sometimes months later, I'll pull it up for one reason or another, and start editing - again! Sometimes I feel as if I will never be finished with a story, unless I submit it here or somewhere online. And even then, if it's rejected, I'll spend even more time re-writing, or adding, or changing something. Currently, I am stuck mid-way through a novel, but instead of focusing on what comes next for my characters, I find myself changing a word here and there in the material that's been gone over a million times already.
> 
> Am I just an oddball, or do others do the same thing?



You're certainly not an oddball. 

I think a lot of us (me included btw) don't quite grasp the purpose of editing. Or at least we 'forget'.

I think editing for most of us is a matter of subtraction not addition and certainly not about impulsive switcheroos - It's not about going word by word agonizing over whether there might be a 'better' version. There probably _is_. There's almost always a 'better' way to say almost anything, it seems.

It's impossible to achieve perfection. Not least because writing is very subjective and fickle and what you, as the writer, think works today will often be different tomorrow...or after a glass of wine, or on an empty stomach, and so on. There's a million reasons to spend a million years rearranging the furniture. 

So...I have tried to think of editing differently. Rather than focusing on making my work _better_ I instead have tried (and I admit this is a work in progress) to simply concern myself with making sure it _works_. In other words, I try to look at editing not as making each word and sentence lovable but simply as making the incorrect into the correct and with ridding semantic ambiguity, grammar errors, etc. It's about communicating meaning, not about polishing until it shines. 

I try not to worry about whether I _like _this sentence or that word and instead focus on a purely left-brained approach: Does it make sense? Is it technically correct? Does it need to be there to achieve meaning? If I can check these boxes I force myself not to tinker with it. Sometimes that is really frustrating. But it usually works. 

I also highlight anything I skip over editing. That way, if I come across it again after time has passed and still feel the same way I might start to give it a second look at that point, often with a more balanced perspective. 

But reactionary, impulsive changes based on 'I wanna change this to sound good' under the guise of editing, for me, are not healthy. For me that's not editing, it's playing around, and its how people end up spending ten years 'working on' a novel and still don't finish.


----------



## Arachne (Feb 14, 2019)

You're not odd at all, Sue. The only way I can stop making changes to my writing is if I never never look at it again. And once I'm happy enough with a piece, that's exactly what I have to do, otherwise it's like a weird form of torture. I almost submit with only one eye open!

Arachne


----------



## luckyscars (Feb 14, 2019)

I'm also going to say it's probably a good rule not to go back and change stuff once you have made a decision that it is finished.

Might be unpopular or against the wisdom of the 'constant learner' but I just don't think the potential benefits outweigh the potential costs. Way I see it, if you had the conviction two months ago that this story was 'finished' you probably have not improved that much as a writer in that time frame. Therefore your judgement now that 'I can make this better' through minor meddling probably isn't based on anything other than self-doubt, neuroticism, etc. So why not expend that creative energy on something new?

The only exception I can think of is if you are responding to feedback from a beta read or workshop and have a clear idea as to what you are doing. Or if maybe it's something you wrote years back when you didn't know what you were doing and it was clearly never going to be publishable but it still contained elements you like. In that case, I'd say cannibalizing is okay. 

But in the kind of time frame you are speaking of, I think its best to resist the urge for casual revisionism.


----------



## Jack of all trades (Feb 14, 2019)

SueC said:


> Hi. I have in the past written some short stories and when - in my mind - I type the words "the end," I save it in a file and go on to the next. Weeks, sometimes months later, I'll pull it up for one reason or another, and start editing - again! Sometimes I feel as if I will never be finished with a story, unless I submit it here or somewhere online. And even then, if it's rejected, I'll spend even more time re-writing, or adding, or changing something. Currently, I am stuck mid-way through a novel, but instead of focusing on what comes next for my characters, I find myself changing a word here and there in the material that's been gone over a million times already.
> 
> Am I just an oddball, or do others do the same thing?



No. You are not odd. 

But that doesn't resolve your current problem. You're stuck. The question is -- why?

Does the story seem finished? I know you probably have more in mind that should happen to the character, but does what you've written feel complete? I had that once. And my beta readers got stuck in the same place. I needed to add a twist before the stuck spot, so that it was clear to readers that there was more to the story. So check to see if what is currently the last chapter feels like all is resolved.

Or do you have no idea what should happen next? Is that the problem? Maybe you have an ending in mind, but don't see how to get from where you are to that end. If that's the case, try to find someone with whom to talk it out. Brainstorm the possibilities.

If neither of those seem likely, then ask yourself what the problem is. The answer is within you. Listen to that inner voice.

The good news is what has been written so far is keeping your interest. So hold onto that while you strive to get beyond the stuck spot.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Cephus (Feb 14, 2019)

You edit for as long as it takes to make it work you're proud of.  That could be one pass, it could be a hundred.  Once you're satisfied that it's the best you can make it, you're done editing.  You should never edit at all until you are finished with the story, otherwise, your brain will try to make you edit, which is less taxing than writing, because your brain wants you to save energy.  Don't listen to your brain.  Force yourself to finish the story before you go back and edit anything.


----------



## Darren White (Feb 14, 2019)

I can edit endlessly, on one small poem. Every word, every line.
Is that space between words too much?
Should there be a white line there?
Do I add commas or not, do I use capitals?
So I guess it makes no difference what kind of writer you are, it is as if a work is never really finished.


----------



## velo (Feb 14, 2019)

I have been known to edit to the point where it's almost not the same piece.  Like the old question, if you have a boat and, over time, replace every part of the boat, is it still the same boat?  

I have had to learn some discipline in this regard and realise that there is no such thing as 'perfect' and that 'good enough'  (or good enough for copy as Olly says) actually is good enough.  For me it's always been a matter of diminishing returns, the first few edits really can improve a piece but as time goes on not so much.  I try and recognise when that threshold is crossed.


----------



## velo (Feb 14, 2019)

Darren White said:


> It is as if a work is never really finished.



This really resonated with me because we, as individuals (or I should rather say as the process/dance we perceive as being 'individual'), are never finished.  We wake up a different person every day of our lives and so a story that we create as an expression of ourself must perforce change as well.  I would not create the same story today that I did 4 years ago and going back to read that story I see all the ways in which it doesn't pertain or come from the person I am today.


----------



## Terry D (Feb 14, 2019)

Over editing is often a symptom of insecurity, or even procrastination. If I keep editing this piece, I won't have to start a new one.


----------



## SueC (Feb 14, 2019)

It helps a lot, Jack. Thank you!


----------



## moderan (Feb 14, 2019)

Terry D said:


> Over editing is often a symptom of insecurity, or even procrastination. If I keep editing this piece, I won't have to start a new one.


I am deeply wounded by this relatable content.


----------



## luckyscars (Feb 14, 2019)

Terry D said:


> Over editing is often a symptom of insecurity, or even procrastination. If I keep editing this piece, I won't have to start a new one.



I also find 'editing' has become something of a safe word. As long as you're 'editing' people leave you alone and you can still reap the benefits of being 'a writer' without having to be accountable for any failures.

_"I've finished my story!" Bill announced, proudly. "All of it. Ten thousand pages. It's brilliant. Probably the best thing I have ever written."
"Oh!" Nancy stood excitedly, "Can I see?"
"What?" Bill's smile vanished. "See? Huh?"
"Yes. Can I see it? Can I read it? I can't believe you finally finished, Bill!"
"Oh," Bill's smile returned, "Oh no, not yet...I have to edit it first. But it's finished."_


----------



## Sir-KP (Feb 14, 2019)

Speaking generally, I found that editing is an endless process. It continues as long as we learn and improve our skills.


----------



## Jack of all trades (Feb 15, 2019)

SueC said:


> It helps a lot, Jack. Thank you!



Glad to hear it.


----------



## wagtail (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm one of those edit as I go writers, but that doesn't stop me from tweaking and fiddling and rearranging once I've finished. It's a great (and rare) feeling when I _don't_ have the urge to change anything, even if it's just one wee little paragraph.


----------



## Bayview (Feb 16, 2019)

I hate editing, so I do as little of it as possible. Finish the first draft, set it aside for a while, then read it over, make some changes, and send it off. Then make whatever changes make sense once the editor has seen it, and that's it.

I avoid looking at older stuff because of course there are changes and improvements that could be made, but it's too late... that piece is already published. Time to focus on the current project, hopefully written without as many (or at least, without the _same_​) issues.


----------



## Stephanie Mae (Feb 20, 2019)

Kelly Gallagher, an education author, once said that a work is never done, it's just due. I actually prefer editing to writing and constantly see where things could be improved in my work and in the works of others. If I'm editing a story or blog post, I usually do at least 3 edits after I think I'm done with the writing in addition to all of the minor edits that I did in the writing process.

I like the idea of "good enough for copy." If you think it's good enough to send to an editor, you'd probably be safe saying you're "done."


----------



## Theglasshouse (Feb 20, 2019)

wagtail said:


> I'm one of those edit as I go writers, but that doesn't stop me from tweaking and fiddling and rearranging once I've finished. It's a great (and rare) feeling when I _don't_ have the urge to change anything, even if it's just one wee little paragraph.


I feel like this is a successful approach and it is one I will use. That and setting it aside, even though you are very sure the draft reads well and correctly. These strategies for editing sound good to try. I will be using a software when the time arises, but I notice, my first mistakes are in need of correcting if I make many in a first draft. Just an observation on my part. So setting it aside can be how many days?


----------



## Dluuni (Feb 21, 2019)

Limited passes. Reread for structure, arrange, flesh out, make sure everything is consistent and accurate, line edit, proofread, then one last reading and then ship. Successful Artists Ship. I do not want to waste my time on tiny revisions when I have bigger problems.


----------



## Ralph Rotten (Feb 21, 2019)

I do doublebacks as I write so the first pass is pretty clean.
But during the editing process I try to look at a story with both a macro and a micro viewer.
Sure, I get granular with the SPAG* and how the story flows without the reader ever being derailed by bad prose, but I also try to take a wide view and look at the overall plot of the story.  Do I need these scenes or did the evolution of the story render that scene moot?  Does it drag? Do the characters fascinate the reader...?

I know the story is good & tight when I can flip to any random page and find myself interested in what is happening there.
I know I'm done editing when I get sick of reading the #@$! words.



*I know that SPAG is merely an acronym for Spelling Punctuation and Grammar, but it always sounds so dirty when I write it.
Seriously, if you walked up to a stranger and offered to show them your SPAG skills they'd prolly pepper-spray you.
"No, SPAG is just...wait, don't taze me bro!"


----------



## Theglasshouse (Feb 22, 2019)

How many days does one take away from seeing their work?

Or do you just start a new story which seems to be the typical thing to do when one is frustrated with writing that story?


----------



## Cephus (Feb 23, 2019)

Theglasshouse said:


> How many days does one take away from seeing their work?
> 
> Or do you just start a new story which seems to be the typical thing to do when one is frustrated with writing that story?



Minimum 2 weeks.  Preferably a month.  In current WIP, I have the sequel to plot, I'll set aside the first draft of the first novel, go off and plot the sequel (or two), then come back for a second pass.


----------



## Ibidun (Feb 23, 2019)

I don't do the same thing, but I do edit while writing. When I finished a novel, I went over it one time to edit.


----------



## Bayview (Feb 24, 2019)

Theglasshouse said:


> How many days does one take away from seeing their work?
> 
> Or do you just start a new story which seems to be the typical thing to do when one is frustrated with writing that story?



Ideally I do a quick once-over immediately after finishing a story, then put it away while I write the next story, give the next story a once-over and put IT away, then go back to the first story with fresh eyes and make whatever changes I want before sending it off. So... three or four months of sitting time, probably?

(Sometimes I have a deadline and can't do this. But when I can, I do)


----------



## Ralph Rotten (Feb 24, 2019)

Theoretically you should allow a manuscript to cool for 2 weeks before going back into it. The idea being that you will see it fresh and anew.
But really, if you have the desire to launch right into editing, you should,
See, that creative energy you feel when you create a book...well, it has a shelf-life.  Just because you feel charged & motivated NOW, doesn't guarantee you will feel the same way in 2 weeks.
That energy is fleeting, and when it seizes you, go with it.  



I have done both: waited the 2 weeks, and just torn into the manuscript...and honestly I saw no difference in the final draft.  But the times that I stayed away, it seemed harder to get back into the groove.


----------

