# Refuge



## RC James (May 5, 2018)

Pockets empty,
on the Arrocito heights,
I study the harbor below,
a secluded promise,
a reprieve.

Whispered visions,
fluttering wings,
shimmers of light,
are the languages
I need.

Over the dark maze
of Calle Hidalgo
and the salon bar
La Vaquita,
the steady moon
is sentinel.

The stone saint,
with a wily smile,
is in cahoots,
silent partner
in night’s invitation
to thought.

I hold the burden
of alluring eyes' promise
and the reckless loss
that memory engenders.

Traffic, the only source
of music, falls back
into itself,
as a furious lack
carries my mind
beyond these streets.

Salvation,
I could have sworn,
was down roads
of my own invention;
I pass myself,
shuffling disconsolately,
in dazed return.

Sweet Lady of Huatulco,
bring the ocean breeze
into the slight hands
of my flesh;
fashion me anew;
show me the source
of this howling within.


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## H.Brown (May 5, 2018)

Wow RC, just Wow. I really enjoyed this poem of yours, the imagery sopke to me, captured me and to me that is what a good/great poem should do to the reader. There were a couple of nit-picks; I didn't think you need 'I' in the 1st stanza

on the Arocito Heights,
study the harbour below...

or 'now' in the 2nd stanza

are the languages
I need...

'A' 3rd stanza- 

the steady moon
is sentinal...

Other than these, this was a strong poem for me and I hope this helps.


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## RC James (May 5, 2018)

Thanks H. - all good points - will tend to them - Thanks for your kind words - RC


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## RC James (May 5, 2018)

Thanks H. - good points - grammattically, "I" in the 1st stanza is needed I think  - will tend to the other two - Thanks for your kind words - RC


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## ned (May 6, 2018)

hello - enjoyed the voice here, and the yearning atmosphere.

lots of opportunity for imagery - but nothing really nails it - or connects meaningfully with the abstract pondering.

pockets empty = empty pockets - for the connotation...

I study the harbor below,- - an opportunity for imagery - bustling harbour below....or something
a secluded promise,
a reprieve - -  my reprieve

Whispered visions, -- can't picture that
fluttering wings, -- 
shimmers of light, -- naturally, wings flutter and light shimmers
are the languages
I need.

Over the dark maze
of Calle Hidalgo
and the salon bar
La Vaquita,
the steady moon
is sentinel. -- a list, rather than imagery - and more irrelevant names -under a moon that is sentinel,  for some reason.

The stone saint,
with a wily smile, -- better imagery
is in cahoots,
silent partner
in night’s invitation
to thought. -- the image and the pondering don't connect.

I hold the burden
of alluring eyes' promise -- another promise - not well put.
and the reckless loss
that memory engenders. -- unfathomable pondering.

Traffic, the only source
of music, falls back
into itself, -- weak imagery
as a furious lack
carries my mind
beyond these streets. -- again, where is the connection?

Salvation, -- too abstract
I could have sworn,
was down roads
of my own invention; -- 
I pass myself, -- how?
shuffling disconsolately,
in dazed return. -- not great.

Sweet Lady of Huatulco,
bring the ocean breeze
into the slight hands
of my flesh;
fashion me anew;
show me the source -- another source
of this howling within. -- I see what you are saying, but your thoughts  should have a stronger tie to the imagery.
for example-

bring the ocean breeze
that shapes the restless dunes
fashion me anew
show me the source
of this howling within.

just my thoughts.........................Ned


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## RC James (May 6, 2018)

Ned -

pockets empty = "empty pockets" - for the connotation... If it were in this order it would be empt(ied) - adj. follows noun for a good reason here

"harbor" - implies safety - "refuge" no need gilding the calla lily

- "my" reprieve - the narrator is speaking - obviously it's "his" reprieve

" naturally, wings flutter and light shimmers"  

Obviously - but they're rarely chosen by humans as languages - which is the point.

"a list, rather than imagery - and more irrelevant names -under a moon that is sentinel, for some reason."

The reason is in the narrator's mind - in his state of mind - it stands out to him as a sentinel.
_Over the dark maze
of Calle Hidalgo        ------Calle Hidalgo as a "dark maze" *is *_an image - that leaves you a one item* list*

 "pondering"

pondering and thought are not quite the same - and that's the point

 "unfathomable pondering."

regret

- "how?"

through willful suspension of disbelief - poetry is sometimes about just that

bring the ocean breeze
that shapes the restless dunes
fashion me anew
show me the source
of this howling within.

OMFG!

 "restless dunes"  never seen a nervous dune - "into the slight hands
of my flesh;" - refers to the narrator - as intended - I wasn't commenting on the emotional condition of the beach - comprende?

"just my thoughts" - thoughts or disturbed* ponderings? *

Yah - Thanks a lot - such perspicacity  - RC


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## ned (May 6, 2018)

steady on RC - I'm only making suggestion on how to improve your poetry -

- nothing personal..........just some words you've written down, which I think might be better - no big deal.

forget the details - which you dismiss out of hand with resort to the narrator's state of mind.

two thrusts here, the imagery and perhaps the emotion of the N. In the title Refuge, they briefly come together, I get that.
yet they don't mix smoothly - the imagery doesn't serve the message as well as it should.

other than the title, and the last line, I've no idea what the N's emotion is - the introspective narration is too loose and vague.
Seeking refuge from what? regret? - it's not much to go on. 

off the top of my head, I gave an example of the sort of thing I mean - tying the two together - I say again 'an example'
I don't know why you thought it was about the emotion of the beach - it's clear enough.
Or why you seemed to think I mentioned 'refuge' in my previous critique - I wonder if you read it properly....

now, that wasn't so bad..............savvy?


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## RC James (May 7, 2018)

take your patronizing swagger to another customer

I'm not buyin' it


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## ned (May 7, 2018)

you didn't seem to understand or even try to engage with my first critique - so I took the trouble to put it in broader terms.
if it comes across as patronising, that's too bad. You brought it on. 

All I see is poetry that needs some considered advice to make it work better - that's what we do here.
If you can't hack that, then maybe you should take your work to another 'customer'

This time, you skipped the defensive posturing and went straight to the insult - I think we're making progress......


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## Olly Buckle (May 7, 2018)

R C James, It may be that Ned's opinion and yours do not coincide, however he has taken the trouble to read your work through carefully, form an opinion, and express it for you. As I say , it may not coincide with your thoughts, but to me it looks like a perfectly reasonable and reasoned post. It may be that he is wrong in some ways about your intentions, but it not as though he is having a random pop at you. Consider it and give reasons for your considered rejection by all means, but please don't drop into  a slanging match.


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## RC James (May 7, 2018)

I pointed out what I thought was mis-directed about the critique.

He didn't answer to any of those defensive, explanatory responses,

he jumped into a sarcastic, patronizing attitude, side-stepping my

answering comments - it pissed me off - I have the the right to

get pissed off at gestures directed at me that feel abusive - no apologies - RC


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## ned (May 7, 2018)

"just my thoughts" - thoughts or disturbed* ponderings? *

Yah - Thanks a lot - such perspicacity - RC


so this is not sarcastic or patronizing - but genuine appreciation of my insight - nice one RC

"gestures directed at me that feel abusive" - gestures? that _feel_ abusive? - all rather vague to get pissed off about.

Olly did not ask for an apology - if you read it properly - just a cessation of this nonsense - 

and I'm all in favour of that............night night.


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## Olly Buckle (May 7, 2018)

Take or leave a crit., fine, but 'defensive, explanatory responses' amounts to arguing with it, which is something else. I, also, would ignore that, because I would not wish to stir the argument.
I must be missing something, I don't see how it is patronising or sarcastic, and yes, you have the right to get pissed off at anything you wish, but keep it to yourself, we don't want to share your spleen; we want to write poetry and share all sorts of opinions on it in a good tempered and constructive manner.


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## RC James (May 7, 2018)

It's my right, your right, everybody's right to argue - not passively sit back and "accept" 
criticism we think is off the mark - you wanna be a sheep - that's your right too - RC


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## Olly Buckle (May 8, 2018)

RC James said:


> It's my right, your right, everybody's right to argue - not passively sit back and "accept"
> criticism we think is off the mark - you wanna be a sheep - that's your right too - RC



I won't  dispute that, but I still feel that something that could be termed a 'discussion' is more likely to be of help  to everyone that an 'argument', and certainly more agreeable, thank you for making your tone more agreeable  though.


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## Chesters Daughter (May 8, 2018)

*The following is a refresher course in critique etiquette and is directed at everyone.

Originators do indeed have the right to disagree with and refute any critique they receive, but they do not have the right to do so by insulting their critics with personal barbs peppered with unnecessary foul language. You may attack the message, but not the messenger as doing so is inflammatory which can and will result in moderation for repeat offenders who do not observe proper forum etiquette by engaging in flaming. Refraining from being a "sheep" can be easily achieved sans the use of insults directed at another member.

In addition,  consistently "liking" and/or "thanking"  posts that are improperly insulting to another member is not only rude but lends to a form of passive-aggressive bullying that does not escape our attention. Cheering on improper behavior is inappropriate and a pattern of engaging in same will be officially addressed.

I implore everyone to treat others as they wish to be treated, and to follow all of the rules and guidelines while interacting on the boards.

Thank you for your valued attention. Any remarks should be directed at me via PM and not in this thread. Those who chose to ignore my request will have their post pulled and find themselves being contacted for thread derailment and ignoring staff. 




*


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