# Your word count is too high.



## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

I've worked years towards the novel I've just finished...Three other stories preceded it and this one, started in October, was the one I had intended to submit to agents. I was realistic about my chances of success, which I accepted as very slim.

...But now a post on another thread, by a senior member, has evaporated even that minuscule chance. - Apparently it's too long... There are too many words. Rejection is a foregone conclusion...

I'd thought the word count, at 138,000, was reasonable, but I guess it's too many pages for a publisher, and agents know that.

Such a fundamental piece of advice as word count I should have known about, and I can only wag an angry finger at myself for such a foolish error!

I've no idea how to write a story under 100,000 words, as they end up as being as long as they are. - I've edited out the 10-15% of chaff as I've gone along and there's no chance of reducing it further by any meaningful degree.

Yes, I'll still submit it, and I guess I can 'pretend' the rejection was nothing to do with the quality of my words, but the volume instead!

I'm sure there's a resource on this site that covers all this issues I've just confronted... - It's a harsh lesson to learn, but I guess I'll pay more attention to the sticky threads in future.


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## Sam (Feb 18, 2014)

I had a novel published at 145,000. 

There are publishers who will consider it, but they are hard to find.


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## FleshEater (Feb 18, 2014)

Most publishers I've researched consider up to 130,000 words. Get the hatchet out, and make 8,000 words disappear. Should be easy.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks. I'll finish the edits, let the beta readers have their say, and then reduce it if I can.

I'll have a look at the literary rejections site, and see which agents are accepting longer submissions.


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## Bishop (Feb 18, 2014)

As said, some agents are willing to rep longer works, but the biggest determination of the appropriate length is often genre. YA and MG are obviously going to be on the lower end, and sci-fi and fantasy might go over the "golden area" often described as 80k-100k. My soon-to-seek-representation novel is 105k and is sci-fi. I'm not 100% sure of how agents will look at that word count, but I'm confident that it's not going to be too long for most.

Bishop


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## Tettsuo (Feb 18, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> I've worked years towards the novel I've just finished...Three other stories preceded it and this one, started in October, was the one I had intended to submit to agents. I was realistic about my chances of success, which I accepted as very slim.
> 
> ...But now a post on another thread, by a senior member, has evaporated even that minuscule chance. - Apparently it's too long... There are too many words. Rejection is a foregone conclusion...
> 
> ...


Cut what you can, but don't remove the soul of the story to fit someone else's arbitrary idea of a novel's size.  My novel came in at 197k words.  I didn't even try to get it published through a publisher because I had no desire to have it chopped to bits because of someone else's idea of what MY story should be.

Of course, if you're a big name, no one cares about the size of your book.  That goes to show you just how nonsensical those word count concepts are.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

Tettsuo said:


> Cut what you can, but don't remove the soul of the story to fit someone else's arbitrary idea of a novel's size.  My novel came in at 197k words.  I didn't even try to get it published through a publisher because I had no desire to have it chopped to bits because of someone else's idea of what MY story should be.
> 
> Of course, if you're a big name, no one cares about the size of your book.  That goes to show you just how nonsensical those word count concepts are.



I have a long name, if not a big name; does that count? 

There are no more cuts to make, and reductions would be by removing non-critical scenes now. - I think I'd rather shelve it and write another than damage this one.

The problem is, it's not an arbitrary novel size is it? - There is a physical cost involved with the production of a book, and that will grow with the number of pages. Some clever little person will have crunched the numbers and worked out the point where cost overtakes reward... And that is either 100,000 or 130,000 or perhaps others may have a different figure.

Yes, genre is important, and this is Science Fiction. - I've four beta readers (perhaps three) and I will see what they say.


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## Tettsuo (Feb 18, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> I have a long name, if not a big name; does that count?
> 
> There are no more cuts to make, and reductions would be by removing non-critical scenes now. - I think I'd rather shelve it and write another than damage this one.
> 
> ...



Book cost should be properly reflected in the price.  The only way to maximize the reward is to price the book a lot higher than the cost of production due to value based on the pricing standards for books of a related genre.  In other words, if most books cost $15.99, you can price a book (regardless of the production cost) at $15.99 because other books are priced at that rate.  But why think about that at all?  Great books sell regardless of size.  Publishers are the ones that need to concern themselves with that.  Also, ebooks completely circumvent standard production cost and can focus solely to the price point that will or will not sell in the marketplace.

But that's not for the artist to concern him/her self with.  Create, then worry about selling afterwards.  Tailoring your creation to maximize sales can and most likely will cripple your ability to really put your creativity on display imo.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

I think the related issue is cross-elasticity (of demand) between books. - A higher priced book will likely sell less, if from an unknown author. - I think what I am taking from this thread is that you have to earn your right to write long novels. 

Yes, E-books are homogenised as regards sale costs. - This, my fourth novel, was supposed to be the first one that _could_ be publishable but, however I look at it, the word count stands against me for traditional publication.

Hell, I'll still submit it and hope for the best. - I'm in now way disillusioned, but do feel a little foolish!


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## Kyle R (Feb 18, 2014)

Trim it down the best you can, then submit it to every agent you can find that represents your genre.

If your query and sample chapters are good enough to warrant an agent's interest, they'll ask you to trim it down some more and resubmit. It's not the end of the world if you have too many words. If your work is compelling enough, you'll still get responses.

Begin working on your next story in the meantime. 

:encouragement:


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## Tettsuo (Feb 18, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> I think the related issue is cross-elasticity (of demand) between books. - A higher priced book will likely sell less, if from an unknown author. -* I think what I am taking from this thread is that you have to earn your right to write long novels.*
> 
> Yes, E-books are homogenised as regards sale costs. - This, my fourth novel, was supposed to be the first one that _could_ be publishable but, however I look at it, the word count stands against me for traditional publication.
> 
> Hell, I'll still submit it and hope for the best. - I'm in now way disillusioned, but do feel a little foolish!



Straight up BS (not saying you personally are BS).  The fact that the industry thinks this is acceptable pisses me off.  A good book is a good book.  There are lots of authors I didn't know about until I read their long novel. 

*The length of a novel doesn't stop readers from picking it up if it's recommended, even if they don't know who the author is.*

Please don't buy into the false narratives that claim otherwise.  The only reason longer novels are not pickup by publishers is not because they've read the novel, but because of the risk they incur because they are printing a large number of books up front and need to unload them ASAP.  It's not about the work itself, but about a calculation make by some guys that never read your book and are looking at a spreadsheet.

Sorry for the rant... I know what you're saying.  You want to get your book picked up by a publisher and are doing what your think will get you the best result possible.  But, for me, this is the reason I passed on submitting my novel to agents.  I'm will not tailor my novel to the market.  So far, I've gotten enough good reviews to give me the validation I've been looking for and encourages me to continue writing.  The readers are the people I'm interested in reaching, to heck with the publishers... for now.


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## Bishop (Feb 18, 2014)

Tettsuo said:


> Straight up BS (not saying you personally are BS).  The fact that the industry thinks this is acceptable pisses me off.  A good book is a good book.  There are lots of authors I didn't know about until I read their long novel.
> 
> *The length of a novel doesn't stop readers from picking it up if it's recommended, even if they don't know who the author is.*
> 
> ...



Exactly. The publishing industry is run more by accountants than readers, we all know that. It's not BS; it's life. It IS true that if you want to be rep'd by an agent and get a publishing contract, they will not take a chance on losing any more money than they have to. So, when they gamble, they bet the middle. Too low of a word count and people won't buy it because they don't want to pay for a short-lived experience. Too high of a word count and the book costs more to make in ink and paper, meaning that if it flops, the publisher loses more money. 

It sucks, because it does limit what some writers try for with their debut novels. My advice is that, unfortunately, in order to write your epic, sometimes you first need to publish your secondary work. My series starts with a shorter book for that reason. It's 105K as opposed to the second book which will be anywhere from 20K-50K longer. If I get published, they take less of a chance on the first book, then I get to hit hard with my sophomore effort and show them what I can really do. I like the second book in my series better. I think I'm a better writer in it, I think it's a more engaging story, and the characters have more room to be fleshed out. But there's nothing WRONG with that first book, it's just not quite as deep. But it might increase my chances of the world getting to see my characters--and frankly, I'm still very proud of both books.

Bishop


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## Tettsuo (Feb 18, 2014)

Bishop said:


> Exactly. The publishing industry is run more by accountants than readers, we all know that. It's not BS; it's life. It IS true that if you want to be rep'd by an agent and get a publishing contract, they will not take a chance on losing any more money than they have to. So, when they gamble, they bet the middle. Too low of a word count and people won't buy it because they don't want to pay for a short-lived experience. Too high of a word count and the book costs more to make in ink and paper, meaning that if it flops, the publisher loses more money.
> 
> It sucks, because it does limit what some writers try for with their debut novels. My advice is that, unfortunately, in order to write your epic, sometimes you first need to publish your secondary work. My series starts with a shorter book for that reason. It's 105K as opposed to the second book which will be anywhere from 20K-50K longer. If I get published, they take less of a chance on the first book, then I get to hit hard with my sophomore effort and show them what I can really do. I like the second book in my series better. I think I'm a better writer in it, I think it's a more engaging story, and the characters have more room to be fleshed out. But there's nothing WRONG with that first book, it's just not quite as deep. But it might increase my chances of the world getting to see my characters--and frankly, I'm still very proud of both books.
> 
> Bishop


Instead of shelving, I self-published.  Screw them.  I refuse to be silenced because some accountant doesn't think my book will generate for them their desired net profit.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

Tettsuo said:


> Straight up BS (not saying you personally are BS).  The fact that the industry thinks this is acceptable pisses me off.  A good book is a good book.  There are lots of authors I didn't know about until I read their long novel.
> 
> *The length of a novel doesn't stop readers from picking it up if it's recommended, even if they don't know who the author is.*
> 
> ...



I had to laugh as it was my own thoughts, not inherited from elsewhere. - It's not based on anything other than a reactionary opinion, and your words helped; thank you.



			
				KyleColorado said:
			
		

> Trim it down the best you can, then submit it to every agent you can find that represents your genre.
> 
> If your query and sample chapters are good enough to warrant an agent's interest, they'll ask you to trim it down some more and resubmit. It's not the end of the world if you have too many words. If your work is compelling enough, you'll still get responses.
> 
> ...



I should finish my second round of edits tonight (33 pages remaining) and I've trimmed it as much as I can. - I'll wait for the comments of the Beta readers first, consider any suggested edits and then submit it.

After that, I'm going to close my eyes and take a couple of days off, and then will consider what to do next... I may start something new, or I may dust off one of my earlier novels and rewrite it with full stops and stuff!


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## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

Tettsuo said:


> Instead of shelving, I self-published.  Screw them.  I refuse to be silenced because some accountant doesn't think my book will generate for them their desired net profit.



If I am rejected, I think I would consider self-publication. - It is more than likely that I will never be good enough for traditional publication but, whilst my corpulent body still functions, I'll keep on trying!


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## Justin Rocket (Feb 18, 2014)

You've got to work with what you've been given.  Publishers want books to be as skinny as possible because shelf space in book stores is a precious commodity.  When it comes down to whether to put 3 more books from a top-selling  author on the shelf or 1 fat 350,000 word epic on the life of nose hair by Joanie the special snowflake, the top-selling author is going to win.  Fantasy genre writers pushed back since they generally need some space to describe cosmology, etc,

Why weren't you aware of your word count problems earlier (like, by the time the first 10% of the story was on paper)?


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## Mr mitchell (Feb 18, 2014)

If you want to be published, I would try to cut down to the right mark, but I haven't got the experience of that side of the writing world. So it be up to you if you take it or not.


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## Terry D (Feb 18, 2014)

The 'cut-off' for word count in science fiction is longer than for many other genres. 138,000 May not be too excessive for some agents and publishers, give it a shot. The publishing companies are not the enemy in this endeavor, and the accountants have a say because publishing is a very risky business. The reason for new authors keeping their word count down is to minimize the financial risk to the publisher. Every page adds cost to the product, and with an unknown author the publisher has no built-in fan base to count on buying the book. Most new books, even from established mid-list authors, never make back their initial cost. For new authors, the chances of a bomb are even greater. The publishers have to tread a very narrow road between bringing along new talent (which they desperately want to do), and making a profit. Writing for publication is a business. An author who understands that and reacts accordingly, has an advantage over most of the submissions agents and editors see.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 18, 2014)

Terry D said:


> The 'cut-off' for word count in science fiction is longer than for many other genres. 138,000 May not be too excessive for some agents and publishers, give it a shot. The publishing companies are not the enemy in this endeavor, and the accountants have a say because publishing is a very risky business. The reason for new authors keeping their word count down is to minimize the financial risk to the publisher. Every page adds cost to the product, and with an unknown author the publisher has no built-in fan base to count on buying the book. Most new books, even from established mid-list authors, never make back their initial cost. For new authors, the chances of a bomb are even greater. The publishers have to tread a very narrow road between bringing along new talent (which they desperately want to do), and making a profit. Writing for publication is a business. An author who understands that and reacts accordingly, has an advantage over most of the submissions agents and editors see.



Now business I can understand. - It's easy for me to have a creative hissy fit, and say 'not fair'. But perhaps from this perspective, it is more than fair. - My only risk is the postage associated with submission. Their risk digs a little deeper, financially.





			
				Justin Rocket said:
			
		

> You've got to work with what you've been given. Publishers want books to be as skinny as possible because shelf space in book stores is a precious commodity. When it comes down to whether to put 3 more books from a top-selling author on the shelf or 1 fat 350,000 word epic on the life of nose hair by Joanie the special snowflake, the top-selling author is going to win. Fantasy genre writers pushed back since they generally need some space to describe cosmology, etc,
> 
> Why weren't you aware of your word count problems earlier (like, by the time the first 10% of the story was on paper)?​



I didn't know word count _was _a problem until a throwaway comment by Sam a day or two ago. His words inspired this thread. - As regards novel length, I've no idea how long it will be until I write the final words.

I agree their rules, not mine. 

Oh and thanks for the awesome plot idea... I hope you don't mind me stealing it!


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## Justin Rocket (Feb 18, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> As regards novel length, I've no idea how long it will be until I write the final words.




A heuristic used in systems architecture is that slippage to the right of a schedule  (i.e. how much additional time then projected it took to get to a milestone) is a constant.

You may find that if you predict how many words it takes you to get to some milestone (y = predicted word count) in your outline, then the percentage of words it actually took you to get there (x = actual word count) can be used to  detect if you're going to be over your word count target (x/y).


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 18, 2014)

I feel your pain.  My first draft was 195K words, and it's grueling trying to get it down to 130K.



Justin Rocket said:


> Why weren't you aware of your word count problems earlier (like, by the time the first 10% of the story was on paper)?



What if he didn't know he was 10% of the way through? At that point in my story, I had predicted it would go to 400K.  (Thankfully, I was wrong.)


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## Bishop (Feb 18, 2014)

Justin Rocket said:


> A heuristic used in systems architecture is that slippage to the right of a schedule  (i.e. how much additional time then projected it took to get to a milestone) is a constant.
> 
> You may find that if you predict how many words it takes you to get to some milestone (y = predicted word count) in your outline, then the percentage of words it actually took you to get there (x = actual word count) can be used to  detect if you're going to be over your word count target (x/y).




This is math. I do not math.

Maybe it's just me, but I set a word goal for daily words written and nothing else. 2K words a day, without fail. I have an idea of around where I want the book to end up, but I never worry about it. All I do is write those 2K a day, and go until I finish writing the book.

Bishop


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## bookmasta (Feb 18, 2014)

Bishop said:


> This is math. I do not math.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I set a word goal for daily words written and nothing else. 2K words a day, without fail. I have an idea of around where I want the book to end up, but I never worry about it. All I do is write those 2K a day, and go until I finish writing the book.
> 
> Bishop



This. Though I was doing 3k a day more recently with the last book I finished. By the outline, I thought it would be somewhere in the range of 160k+ or more. Thankfully, it didn't turn out that way. Now if only the same could be said for the work I'm currently writing...


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## InkwellMachine (Feb 18, 2014)

Have you considered splitting the book into a duology? Two fifty-thousand-word pieces, each of which could stand about 30,000 words of expansion?

I mean, since word-count doesn't seem to be an issue for you.


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## TWErvin2 (Feb 18, 2014)

It depends on the genre as well as the publisher.

My fantasy novels were published:
1st novel = 128,000 words
2nd novel = 129,000 words

My SF novel:
3rd novel = 180,000 words

I think you're right in making it the best novel you can and then send it out there to try and find a publisher. While you're doing that, start a new novel and learn from the earlier works, and plan it such that it will come out a little shorter.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 19, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> I feel your pain.  My first draft was 195K words, and it's grueling trying to get it down to 130K.



I've moved through second and third draft to drop it where it now stands. 

There's a chapter, one from the end, that is 2,300 words and I feel I can half that now. - It is too slow paced for any part of the book, let alone one so close to the conclusion.



			
				TWErvin2 said:
			
		

> It depends on the genre as well as the publisher.
> 
> My fantasy novels were published:
> 1st novel = 128,000 words
> ...



It would be a huge boost for both me, and others I am sure, if you pointed a finger towards agents you know accept longer prose. (Better still if you identified the one that said yes, but I'm not sure if there is an etiquette that precludes agent naming!)

I've written three books previously, two of which were 170,000 words+, which I will need to rewrite in due course, and there's little chance of them dropping in word count by much.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 19, 2014)

InkwellMachine said:


> Have you considered splitting the book into a duology? Two fifty-thousand-word pieces, each of which could stand about 30,000 words of expansion?
> 
> I mean, since word-count doesn't seem to be an issue for you.



There is nothing that resembles an event that would facilitate this. - IF this had been an option, I'd have been delighted to do this. - In fact, I think I did half the the current story, and left scope for a sequel!


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## N J Xkey (Feb 19, 2014)

I think I'm going to end up in a similar situation. Unless inspiration for another event happens en route I'm going to end up with a story that is too long for one novel and too short for two. I have been aware of the word count thing from the beginning but I simply can't see a way of telling a rather complex story well in under 100k, unless I cut the things that make it fun to read! I hope to try and traditionally publish, BUT one thing that occurred to me if I do end up self-publishing is perhaps I could make the first quarter-ish a novella and give it away for free, hopefully hook the reader, then charge for the rest which would be a "standard" length... I would still rather pursue an agent in the first instance though, so I'm hoping it will work itself out in the editing process.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 19, 2014)

N J Xkey said:


> I think I'm going to end up in a similar situation. Unless inspiration for another event happens en route I'm going to end up with a story that is too long for one novel and too short for two. I have been aware of the word count thing from the beginning but I simply can't see a way of telling a rather complex story well in under 100k, unless I cut the things that make it fun to read! I hope to try and traditionally publish, BUT one thing that occurred to me if I do end up self-publishing is perhaps I could make the first quarter-ish a novella and give it away for free, hopefully hook the reader, then charge for the rest which would be a "standard" length... I would still rather pursue an agent in the first instance though, so I'm hoping it will work itself out in the editing process.



I've had the privilege of reading your opening, and if the following pages match that, I think you can write as many or as few words as you would like.


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## N J Xkey (Feb 19, 2014)

That is most kind of you to say. I do fear that an excessive word count from an unknown author may mean that no one reads past the query letter though. Ah well, we can but do our best.


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## Viktor (Feb 20, 2014)

My published novel has more or less 50.000 words, the second one (I'm finishing it) it is also about this quantity. And I don't matter  

Just relax and write down the number of words you feel to write  because otherwise your writing will appear like sterile flipper's score table...


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## Robdemanc (Feb 20, 2014)

I have been in the same situation. I had a 140,000 word manuscript so I decided to split it in two and rework it. However, since then I have decided to split it down to a third and rework it into a 50,000 word story.

I did some research and found most publishers will feel comfortable with a 90,000 word manuscript from a first time writer.


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## TWErvin2 (Feb 20, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> It would be a huge boost for both me, and others I am sure, if you pointed a finger towards agents you know accept longer prose. (Better still if you identified the one that said yes, but I'm not sure if there is an etiquette that precludes agent naming!)
> 
> I've written three books previously, two of which were 170,000 words+, which I will need to rewrite in due course, and there's little chance of them dropping in word count by much.



I cannot point toward an agent. I will say that my 180,000 word SF novel made it out of the TOR slush pile, for a full read. The letter I received in the rejection was detailed and suggested I send it to Baen Books as it was more along the line of what they published. I did that, and it made it out of the slush pile there and moved its way up, to eventually be rejected. My current small press publisher read and thought it strong enough, despite the length, and published it. I will say that the editor at Baen that read it is also an author, and thought enough of my novel (Relic Tech) to write a blurb for it. 

So, you don't need an agent to submit to some markets. However, it takes a long time to run the slushpile gauntlet, and even longer to obtain a final decision.

The length of time waiting is why, in my previous post, I suggested that you send it out to find a publisher after making it the best novel you can. While sending and waiting, work on something new, and plan it out so that it's shorter.

See, my decision with Relic Tech was based on the fact that I could've spent time re-writing the main story, so that it was much shorter. But I figured I could spend the time more effectively writing another novel instead. Then I would have two out there seeking a publisher (if the first didn't reach publication) See, Relic Tech was my first attempt at a novel.  Some folks suggested to just divide the novel into two. I'm not a fan of that, especially as the story arc didn't lend itself to such a ploy.


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## thepancreas11 (Feb 20, 2014)

The first novel I ever wrote was 150,000 words, and when it was finished, I was determined to dump every last bit of it on some poor publisher because I had thought it up, and I had worked really hard and everything that I had put into it was absolutely CRUCIAL to the story. Then, when no one responded, I decided to shelve it and move on. I started rereading the piece about two months ago in my spare time, and the more I go over it, the more I realize that a lot of what I thought was pivotal and essential and a host of other important words were just solar flares off the sun, really. They were pretty to watch, but they weren't a part of the whole, and in fact, they detracted in large part. Trust me, if you've got a piece over 100,000 words long, you can either split it in two or hunt down the rogue chapters and bring them to a swift, deleting justice.

Without giving away anything about the story, can you describe it? Maybe we can help you figure out what doesn't belong. Outsiders often have a keen eye for the blemishes that we can't see on our own faces.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 21, 2014)

TWErvin2 said:


> I cannot point toward an agent. I will say that my 180,000 word SF novel made it out of the TOR slush pile, for a full read. The letter I received in the rejection was detailed and suggested I send it to Baen Books as it was more along the line of what they published.



I've looked at their submission guidelines before; does it really take six months for a response? That's a lot of time to wait if you're not allowed to submit your novel anywhere else in the meantime.


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## TWErvin2 (Feb 21, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> I've looked at their submission guidelines before; does it really take six months for a response? That's a lot of time to wait if you're not allowed to submit your novel anywhere else in the meantime.



In my experience, 6 months is optimistic. Rejections are easy, but if you're being seriously considered, it takes far longer. The big houses (just like agents) get a thousand or more submissions a month, and reading slush isn't a top priority for editors.


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## Kyle R (Feb 21, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> I've looked at their submission guidelines before; does it really take six months for a response? That's a lot of time to wait if you're not allowed to submit your novel anywhere else in the meantime.



My stance on "no simultaneous submission" requests is that, first and foremost, it's a request only. 

Unless a publishing house is paying you, or has set up an exclusive reading contract with you, they have no right to tell you what to do with your manuscript.

Submit to other places in the meantime. The more the better! 

The only thing to remember is to keep track of all your queries, so you can withdraw your MS from consideration if you happen to sell it elsewhere. :encouragement:


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## InkwellMachine (Feb 22, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> My stance on "no simultaneous submission" requests is that, first and foremost, it's a request only.
> 
> Unless a publishing house is paying you, or has set up an exclusive reading contract with you, they have no right to tell you what to do with your manuscript.
> 
> ...


You don't think this could hurt your chances for re-submission, though? I certainly wouldn't want to end up on a publisher's "ignore list," provided such a thing exists.


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## Gavrushka (Mar 4, 2014)

Wow... Redundant words... How many do amateur writers cling to when they should be dead and buried?

I started this thread on 138,000+ words and, having edited the first chapter, now weigh in at 135,000 words... The mathematically impossibility is that the first chapter was 1,500 words or so, and still numbers 600... 

Until now, I'd not realised how much dead wood there was infecting and killing off the real prose. - Phrases of insecurity tagged on to the end of a sentence, or a surfeit of the word 'that' where nothing was needed. - I hope the day comes when I can, when writing, focus well enough to avoid wielding an axe with such abandon!

Every writer should consider a sideline in gardening, so they understand the benefits of pruning.


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## Jeko (Mar 4, 2014)

> Every writer should consider a sideline in gardening, so they understand the benefits of pruning.



I like the analogy of losing weight; if you want your novel to be a world-class athlete, you've got to slim it down and let it's muscles, which you should also be building, work as effectively as they can. Regular exercise works to this effect.


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## Gavrushka (Mar 22, 2014)

A chapter added, and 'reduction edit' completed. - Over 10,000 words have been shed, and yet nothing has been lost. 127,431 words of some worth. - I've a few betas to read them, a few more edits to make and then I can submit this to agents. Although I do not feel confident of acceptance, I do feel delighted by what the editing experience has taught me. - I've a fantasy story to rip in half now (separating Saya's epic journey thread from Jalikra's epic 'I'm an ickle bit lost' thread.)

You've just gotta love writing.


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## N J Xkey (Mar 22, 2014)

Wow, well done! I'm very excited! That's one hell of a reduction - you've gone from circa 140,00 to 127,000 ish? That's an amazing amount of work. Caps truly doffed. And yes, I think any editing and also beta reading and having critiques on your work all make for better writing not only on the current project but for the future as well. Thanks to a certain very kind gent  I'm much more aware of my own pitfalls and am starting to be able to side step them as I go along rather than having to dig myself out of them retrospectively... Also reading other people's work helps me identify what works and doesn't work in my own. The only way is up!


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## A_Jones (Mar 22, 2014)

What is your book about.  I might be able to beta read and help you cut some stuff down.


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## DondreKhan (Mar 22, 2014)

Createspace, Amazon, Google, and Apple won't reject it, if you know what I'm getting at.


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## Plasticweld (Mar 22, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> Every writer should consider a sideline in gardening, so they understand the benefits of pruning.



I scrolled through this thread last night, your words ran in and out of my thoughts today.  I listened on the radio today, Some country, some classical rock. Each song told a story, it had a beginning, a middle and end. it was no more than a few paragraphs at best. The good songs made a point, struck a cord, conveyed a message. all in  few minutes. 

I have often felt that what I wrote was important to the story. I wonder if I have been fooling myself as to what is important. If someone can tell a story in minutes what is my excuse for not being able to do it in many hours.


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## stormageddon (Mar 23, 2014)

A song might tell a story in three minutes, but hours of work will have gone into it behind the scenes. Good stories are horrendous to tell no matter what the platform, but without them to take the edge off, I don't think many people would be able to cope with life.


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