# E-Books: Good, Bad and Ugly



## qwertyportne (Feb 12, 2014)

Are too many authors spamming distributors with poorly written e-books? Have e-books become a playing field for anyone with a word processor and the belief he or she writes well and has something valuable to share with the world? Have e-books become a free-speech platform for the good, the bad and the ugly?

Yes. It's just too easy and economical to publish an e-book, whether you care about your audience or not. As I see it, two factors affect sales. The quantity of e-books on the market are a stumbling block to being discovered. Once discovered, however, the quality of the writing can also be a stumbling block.

If you are anything like me, you are doing things other than writing to get over the first stumbling block, but you're spending lots more time striving to write well than struggling to be discovered. So what are you doing to get over the second stumbling block? My intentions are not to start a lengthy, detailed thread about the nuts and bolts of our craft. I'm more interested in higher-level suggestions. I'll start the ball rolling with this:

Have something valuable to write, something that will appeal to more people than just your family and friends. F. Scott Fitzgerald said, "I don't write because I want to say something. I write because I have something to say." 

In fiction, that means going beyond the skillful use of dialog, description and narration. What is your theme? When your readers get to the end, will they have something valuable to take home with them? Ernest Hemingway said, "Good stories are more real than if they had really happened." How can a story be less true if it really happened? Because you and I rarely notice our own lives are stories. We are too busy to look back, to connect the dots of cause and effect, to paint a story with a plot and a point. Stories give us that look back. We become the young hero, the wise old woman, the transformed fool. That makes fiction truer than real life: psychologically valid, emotionally realistic and loaded with clues for shaping and navigating the sticky web of real life.

In non-fiction, that means writing about something you know, that you are passionate about. Use simple vocabulary, and organize your thoughts so your intended audience can follow your explanations. Create illustrations that show what you are telling your readers. Create your drawings first, then support them with text ~ not vice versa. If it's a technical, how-to guide, move from the general to the specific. Few readers want to wade through a zillion details to discover your conclusion. They'll be willing to do that in a story full of adventure, surprise and drama, but not in a lengthy article or book on a technical subject. And give ground to grammar. Well, that applies to all types of writing.

Your turn...


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## Gavrushka (Feb 12, 2014)

All someone has to do now is vomit onto paper, and they can publish it. There are no standards, no regulations and little to distinguish the good from the bad. - Even reviews can be part of narcissistic /sycophantic mutual adoration.

I mentioned elsewhere that until such point there is a regulatory council for self-published books, the silage will hide the gems. - I've since discovered that there are a few official sources that are prepared to review self-published works, but until there is universally acknowledged 'seal of approval' for this industry, it may as well buy a big red nose and oversized shoes.

*edit* I'm going to vomit... There are kickstarters for wannabees? I don't damn well believe it. How much bloody money does it cost to write a novel?


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## Terry D (Feb 12, 2014)

This is a topic which gets a lot of coverage here, but I'm not sure it deserves it. What it mostly comes down to is people lamenting the amount of bad writing being self-published. So what? If you have written a good story, put in the work to edit and format it professionally, and then placed it between attractive covers, you are light years ahead of the rest. The garbage out there isn't competition, and it's not a haystack you are burying your needle in. I never worry that my book will be lost in an ocean of dross, because I'm comfortable that it cruises above them. All you have to do is read the on-line description of a book (written by the author) to know if that writer is going to be able to tell a story. The problem facing good self-published works is the same as faced by traditionally published books--marketing. The vast majority of trade published books get no more marketing support than do most self-published books.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 12, 2014)

I think what unnerved me about the self-publication market was reading a book, with attractive cover, by a fellow WF member. The book was superb, had been out for some time and yet mine was the only review it had. - I think until that point I was sure that talent was enough.

Yes, it's something that does attract a lot of attention as it is the only outlet most writers will ever have access to using. - In a couple of months I'll likely have to confront it and, once an exciting prospect, it now fills me with trepidation.

But yes, for someone like me, it is easier to lambaste the self-pub market than accept that I may soon become part of that icky film floating on the surface concealed the better authors.


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## Caragula (Feb 12, 2014)

"If you have written a good story, put in the work to edit and format it  professionally, and then placed it between attractive covers, you are  light years ahead of the rest."

This is true.  I'm not sure that this alone ensures more visibility of your work on Amazon.  Word of mouth is valuable as are reviews on review sites.  I never pay any attention to customer reviews of self-published novels because I simply can't trust them.  I'll 'Look Inside' and see for myself.

The first bit, 'written a good story' is the trick.  And it's tricky.

Terry: "The vast majority of trade published books get no more marketing support than do most self-published books."  I'd be interested to know a bit more about this.


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## Terry D (Feb 12, 2014)

Caragula said:


> "If you have written a good story, put in the work to edit and format it  professionally, and then placed it between attractive covers, you are  light years ahead of the rest."
> 
> This is true.  I'm not sure that this alone ensures more visibility of your work on Amazon.  Word of mouth is valuable as are reviews on review sites.  I never pay any attention to customer reviews of self-published novels because I simply can't trust them.  I'll 'Look Inside' and see for myself.
> 
> ...



Take a walk through any book store, particularly the 'biggies', and you'll see that there are basically four types of presentation for books: the big name authors, or movie tie-ins, get individual displays, window placement, and are arranged 'cover out' on the end-caps of the rows. These books are the ones that draw your attention first. The next tier of in-store marketing is for mid-list authors and older works by the brand names, these books are displayed on some end-caps and usually displayed on the shelves with the covers out so the artwork and title are prominent. After that you have the vast majority of the inventory, those books are shelved 'spine out', and are where new authors are typically relegated. These books get no advertising, no display, and are only found if the reader gets curious enough to tug on that spine and take a look at the cover. On the bottom of the list are the books dumped onto the bargain tables wearing the big, round 50% OFF stickers. Being a new author for a trade publisher is like being a free-lance gladiator. Someone has decided to put you out in the arena, but once there you are on your own. If you win, you survive, and maybe they will invest a bit more in you the next time, but initially you are on your own.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 12, 2014)

And the moral of the story is, don't write a good book, write an exceptional one and promote the hell out of it, whether it is self or traditionally published.


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## dale (Feb 12, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> And the moral of the story is, don't write a good book, write an exceptional one and promote the hell out of it, whether it is self or traditionally published.



the "moral of the story" is a different one for me. for me it's more like "i will never really be worth a damn as a writer until i write a book
good enough to score me an agent and hit a "BIG 6 publisher." that's just how disillusioned i've become with the whole racket. i won't consider
myself "successful" in anyway until that happens.


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## Caragula (Feb 12, 2014)

So when I last went into a bookshop, there were new authors who got a good bit of shelfspace, I guess you'd call them the 'bright new things' and I guess the marketing was in proportion to the extent that they were considered to do well.  I didn't see a distinction between new and established authors as such with regard to prominence.

The '50%' off tables in Waterstones (3 for 2), the main specialist bookseller in the UK, are actually front and centre in the store as you walk in, not relegated, and these are usually quite a variety of authors I've heard of and authors I haven't.  I see no 'rhyme or reason' beyond whatever deals Waterstones has done for those titles with the publishers.  In fact, it seems like anything that merely isn't new or on offer is what ends up spine out on the shelves.

Perhaps I haven't scrutinised the shop setup enough, but on the surface, I have quite a different experience regarding the marketing of writers in the UK's major specialist bookstore.


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## David Gordon Burke (Feb 12, 2014)

qwertyportne said:


> "I don't write because I want to say something. I write because I have something to say."



Wow.  Meat and potatoes.  Something to sink my teeth into.  
There's the nail, there's the hammer.  You hit it.  
I respectfully posit that if one were to read the majority of posts on the majority of threads, they are actually about nothing.  When someone asks for the reasons for people's opinions they often just get more opinions.  When asked that people source their opinions, nada, zilch, zippo, bupkis.  


I once posted a thread with a title like 'The Writer and Social Consciousness'  or something like that in which I asked people if they had a greater purpose aside from an economic ambition.  
The responses gave me the feeling that having a social moral or theme and hoping your writing affects the world in some positive way was frowned on.  Vacuous insipid tripe of the current 'just-for-entertainment' stripe seemed to be the goal of the day.  

Maybe the way to improve the quality of Indie writers would be for those that claim to be able to get it done.  

My record for the last two months has been.
5 Indie Novels read or attempted to read.

1 Very Good bordering on great.
1 Very Good but in need of editting.  Cut 10% out of it to make a great book.
1 Damn Good but with a few flaws and formatting problems
1 Just damn awful
1 ridiculous porn masquerading as fantasy erotica  

Ok, even the good weren't in the realm of Cormac McCarthy but then again, who is?  
In this and two other threads going on at the moment the vast response is....'Indie Sucks'  
Other than the one member whose response is that only by publishing through traditional press are you ever going to be credible as an author (elitist but still a respectable opinion) it seems that most writers here have a pretty negative view of their chosen field.

I predict that -
a.  The vast majority of competition will drop out.
b.  Many more quality writers will emerge.
c.  Awards and control will come into play.
d.  The drek will fall by the wayside.

'be cheery all ye of little faith'  

David Gordon Burke


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## qwertyportne (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, I started this thread as an attempt to get beyond "people lamenting the amount of bad writing being self-published" and back to the "meat and potatoes" because I can't do much about the quantity of crap other writers are publishing but I can do something about the quality of my writing. And know I could use some help from other writers who are spending less time whining about other people's writing and more time working on their own.


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## Schrody (Feb 12, 2014)

qwertyportne said:


> Yeah, I started this thread as an attempt to get beyond "people lamenting the amount of bad writing being self-published" and back to the "meat and potatoes" because *I can't do much about the quantity of crap other writers are publishing but I can do something about the quality of my writing.* And know I could use some help from other writers who are spending less time whining about other people's writing and more time working on their own.



If you didn't wrote it, I would.


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## Schrody (Feb 12, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> The responses gave me the feeling that having a social moral or theme and hoping your writing affects the world in some positive way was frowned on.  Vacuous insipid tripe of the current 'just-for-entertainment' stripe seemed to be the goal of the day.



As long as market is filled with something like 50 shades of grey, Twilight, etc., nothing will change. You love writing? Good. Then write, but don't write garbage that'll have big influences on young minds giving them the wrong perception of sex, love, life... But then again, I think that times when writers were the one's who changed the world, and have been moral compass, are gone.


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## David Gordon Burke (Feb 13, 2014)

Schrody said:


> As long as market is filled with something like 50 shades of grey, Twilight, etc., nothing will change. You love writing? Good. Then write, but don't write garbage that'll have big influences on young minds giving them the wrong perception of sex, love, life... But then again, I think that times when writers were the one's who changed the world, and have been moral compass, are gone.



Are the days of writers influencing the world over and done with because a.  The public isn't interested in that kind of writing anymore o b. because the vast majority of the writers of the world decided to write only what the public wants to read and no longer has the nerve to challenge, inspire, infuriate or motivate?  Writers conform so as not to affect their bottom line?  ($$$$$)    
Chicken or the Egg, I don't really care.  
Conformist writers?  Welcome to the afterlife.  Please step to the back of the elevator.  Everyone comfortable?  Ok.  *GOING DOWN*.

David Gordon Burke


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## David Gordon Burke (Feb 13, 2014)

qwertyportne said:


> Yeah, I started this thread as an attempt to get beyond "people lamenting the amount of bad writing being self-published" and back to the "meat and potatoes" because I can't do much about the quantity of crap other writers are publishing but I can do something about the quality of my writing. And know I could use some help from other writers who are spending less time whining about other people's writing and more time working on their own.



While the whine fest was going on, Stephen King wrote a new 800 page novel. It's really good and challenges the reader to change his world.
During the last three days while these various threads about INDIE quality and the proliferation of bad Ebooks were in high swing, I added 5000 words to my current WIP.  
How about you?  

David Gordon Burke


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## Schrody (Feb 13, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> Are the days of writers influencing the world over and done with because a.  The public isn't interested in that kind of writing anymore o b. because the vast majority of the writers of the world decided to write only what the public wants to read and no longer has the nerve to challenge, inspire, infuriate or motivate?


 
Both. I have personal experience of being called a "philosopher" in a negative manner, just because I dared to think and speak about something more, human nature... So, I can imagine why writers don't write about social awareness anymore, or why people don't want to read that. 




David Gordon Burke said:


> Writers conform so as not to affect their bottom line?  ($$$$$)
> Chicken or the Egg, I don't really care.
> Conformist writers?  Welcome to the afterlife.  Please step to the back of the elevator.  Everyone comfortable?  Ok.  *GOING DOWN*.
> 
> David Gordon Burke



There's always gonna be writers who'll write just for the money, just what market is looking for, deluding young minds. Don't get me wrong, everybody should do what ever they want, but I somehow can't respect that kind of authors. I'm writing because of my pleasure, I love it. Sure, it would be great to make some money, but not at the price of being sell-off. Writer's integrity is all I have, and if I lose that, I'll be just some ordinary scribbler. But I think you can see by quality who's writing truly, and who just for the fame. Oh, and I'm not "comfortable" writer, and I think most of us aren't; if you can't say/write what you want, no matter how many people it could offend (and you could offend someone just because of the fact you get up from bed this morning), you're not actually free.


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## David Gordon Burke (Feb 13, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Oh, and I'm not "comfortable" writer, and I think most of us aren't; if you can't say/write what you want, no matter how many people it could offend (and you could offend someone just because of the fact you get up from bed this morning), you're not actually free.



The idea 'offend' does not compute.  There is no offend.  There is only *take offense*.  One decides to do it and whether by split second programmed response or by conscious decision it is a *decision*.  People have free will and can be affected by or ignore as they choose.  

That said, for truly offensive material, we have 'Hate Laws.'  

Anything outside of that level of offense is just controversial.  Thought provoking.  Sadly, in our dumbed down world, many people find being forced to think instead of doing the 'Lemming'  to be offensive.  Gladly, I don't need the money or fame (I'm a legend already in my own mind so....) and as such I can and do write exactly what I want to write without much thought as to who might decide to take offense to it.  I try to provoke and embarass and call attention to injustices.  It may not be much but it's my grain of sand.  If everyone else added theirs we might be lying by the ocean on a beautiful white beach.  

I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'd rather make $10,000 a year selling books that I enjoyed writing and believe in that make $1,000,000 writing drek.  

Finally, how did someone make being a philosopher a negative thing?  Did you interrupt their episode of Spongebob with some deep thoughts?  Why would you care?

David Gordon Burke


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## Gavrushka (Feb 13, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> ... I'd rather make $10,000 a year selling books that I enjoyed writing and believe in that make $1,000,000 writing drek.



I'm such a sell-out... I'd take the money, and then I could spend my days writing the stuff I really wanted to afterwards.


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## dale (Feb 13, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> I'm such a sell-out... I'd take the money, and then I could spend my days writing the stuff I really wanted to afterwards.



although the money would be cool, it's not really the main point with me as far as my attitude expressed earlier. i just don't see my written words
as having success unless they are well read. if no one but a few family and friends reads my work, that makes it kind of pointless to me. the writing
is an action, and the effect it has on others is the reaction. and to me, the action is only as successful as the reaction defines it as.


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## patskywriter (Feb 13, 2014)

So … if you put your heart and soul and a ton of work in writing something that, after numerous edits and rewrites doesn't sell, you'd actually feel that you haven't written a good book? Is that the only way to define success? Is there only one type of success?


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## dale (Feb 13, 2014)

patskywriter said:


> So … if you put your heart and soul and a ton of work in writing something that, after numerous edits and rewrites doesn't sell, you'd actually feel that you haven't written a good book? Is that the only way to define success? Is there only one type of success?



no. i feel the book i wrote now is a "good book". but i DO feel it's a failure, regardless of how "good" it is.


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## qwertyportne (Feb 13, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> While the whine fest was going on, Stephen King wrote a new 800 page novel. It's really good and challenges the reader to change his world. During the last three days while these various threads about INDIE quality and the proliferation of bad Ebooks were in high swing, I added 5000 words to my current WIP. How about you? David Gordon Burke



I'll assume your comment above is not to turn this thread into a competition about who is and is not putting their money where their mouth is, but to return the focus of the thread to: Writing Tips, not Whining Trips. And yes, SK's novel is an excellent example of an author writing what he wants to write while giving readers something valuable to take home with them. If they see it that way. And doing it really well. Writer-centered AND reader-centered. My writing is getting better because of authors like him.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 13, 2014)

dale said:


> although the money would be cool, it's not really the main point with me as far as my attitude expressed earlier. i just don't see my written words
> as having success unless they are well read. if no one but a few family and friends reads my work, that makes it kind of pointless to me. the writing
> is an action, and the effect it has on others is the reaction. and to me, the action is only as successful as the reaction defines it as.



Ah, my comment regarding the money was meant flippantly. - I'm several steps behind you, but my goal is to have my words enjoyed by others too. - What I do accept is that is a long road, and we cannot gauge progress for a long time, unless we're fortunate enough to have a slick marketing consultant working for us. - The spread of your literary talent will be both relentless and painfully slow. It's the lot of any good writer who must force his way to the surface and through the sheer weight of substandard prose that others have produced. - I've bought your book, and have read the first page to make sure it is something I want to read and, I will tell you now, it is something I _want _to read. - I'd intended to have it read by now, but issues with my novel have forced me into reading Neuromancer, followed by a couple of books similar to my own.


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## dale (Feb 13, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> Ah, my comment regarding the money was meant flippantly. - I'm several steps behind you, but my goal is to have my words enjoyed by others too. - What I do accept is that is a long road, and we cannot gauge progress for a long time, unless we're fortunate enough to have a slick marketing consultant working for us. - The spread of your literary talent will be both relentless and painfully slow. It's the lot of any good writer who must force his way to the surface and through the sheer weight of substandard prose that others have produced. - I've bought your book, and have read the first page to make sure it is something I want to read and, I will tell you now, it is something I _want _to read. - I'd intended to have it read by now, but issues with my novel have forced me into reading Neuromancer, followed by a couple of books similar to my own.



thanks. my real point is....unless you get an agent to accept your work, you'll probably feel as frustrated as i do with the whole publishing process.
all that work to only sell a couple dozens books has been enough to make me grind my teeth down to nothing. it takes a lot to rise above the filth
layered thick within the self-publishing/indie world. hopefully you have more patience for that journey than i do.


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## Gavrushka (Feb 13, 2014)

dale said:
			
		

> thanks. my real point is....unless you get an agent to accept your work, you'll probably feel as frustrated as i do with the whole publishing process.
> all that work to only sell a couple dozens books has been enough to make me grind my teeth down to nothing. it takes a lot to rise above the filth
> layered thick within the self-publishing/indie world. hopefully you have more patience for that journey than i do.



I assume you're working on a new novel now, and with one beyond that rolling round in your head too. I think an author has to be tenacious  and you've already accepted you write well, and will only get better, so you also need to adjust to the fact it will take longer for your words to propagate to the masses than you expected. I can see you're disillusioned, but that is bound to happen when you care as much as you do about writing. Get on with the next book, and accept the things you can't change at the moment (the speed of your ascension to renown).

As regards my own status... I've written three novels pre-good enough for public consumption, and rewritten one of those too. - That's a total of over 600,000 words waiting for me to revisit. - I completed my fourth novel a couple of weeks ago, and am now on with editing that until it is good enough for release. - So yes, there are over four years behind me leading to the point I expect to reach around Easter. I wish there was a shortcut, as I'd be the first to take it, but I accept it's a bloody long hard slog.


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## David Gordon Burke (Feb 13, 2014)

qwertyportne said:


> I'll assume your comment above is not to turn this thread into a competition about who is and is not putting their money where their mouth is, but to return the focus of the thread to: Writing Tips, not Whining Trips. And yes, SK's novel is an excellent example of an author writing what he wants to write while giving readers something valuable to take home with them. If they see it that way. And doing it really well. Writer-centered AND reader-centered. My writing is getting better because of authors like him.



Actually, putting your money where your mouth is ....hmmm?  Why would anyone want to talk with anyone who cannot do that with and relative to every aspect of their life?  Not putting your money where your mouth is the same as being a hypocrite, isn't it?  
And by further extension, how many people that are talking through their hats are actually going to go on to be great writers?  
But no, that wasn't my intention.
My intention, as offensive as some might find it, is to question the INDIE or amateur or semi-pro writer who is up in arms and slagging the Amazon phenom.  I'm not buying it.
I am however considering a career in psychology cause I really wish I had the knowledge and was armed with the information to be able to peal away the denial, projection, fear, rejection, intimacy, etc. issues that I suspect are the real stumbling blocks to most creative people's sucess.  
45% BAD, 55% GOOD or vice versa or 10 or 15% more or less here or there, the entire 'let's slag the Amazon Indies' concept on numerous threads this week is just all wrong. 
1.  Who cares?  Do your own thing, believe in yourself and get it done.
2.  Thank God many of the INDIE writers suck.  Did you want to be competing with Harvard Grad level writers who've been spoon-fed by Cormac McCarthy?  I'd rather compete against BAD writers.  BAD LAZY writers...even better.
3.  Focusing on the negative does nothing to help any of us out.  I posted 1 (or maybe 2) of these threads in the hopes of fostering the kind of excitement I have about the INDIE revolution.  It has been a maudlin kleenex sponsored whine fest.  
I repeat qwertyportne's simple advice - Writing Tips, not Whining Trips.

David Gordon Burke


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## ppsage (Feb 13, 2014)

What surprises me is that more promotional collectives have not been formed by the authors themselves. This is your _regulatory council._ A small group of authors, let us say in the horror genre, who critique each other’s work in the composition process—much as we do here—who believe in one another’s work, who can vet the work, who work together on a promotional site, who may be able collectively to hire technical assistance. Who can build a reputation for the work of each of the individuals. Multiply the credentialing each author’s readers provide and multiply the promotional effect of each individual’s efforts by a factor of six or ten. Must have a minimum of play well with others might be the rub, for you lot.


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## Schrody (Feb 13, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> There is only *take offense*.  One decides to do it and whether by split second programmed response or by conscious decision it is a *decision*.  People have free will and can be affected by or ignore as they choose.



True.



David Gordon Burke said:


> Anything outside of that level of offense is just controversial.  Thought provoking.  Sadly, in our dumbed down world, many people find being forced to think instead of doing the 'Lemming'  to be offensive.  Gladly, I don't need the money or fame (I'm a legend already in my own mind so....) and as such I can and do write exactly what I want to write without much thought as to who might decide to take offense to it.  I try to provoke and embarass and call attention to injustices.  It may not be much but it's my grain of sand.  If everyone else added theirs we might be lying by the ocean on a beautiful white beach.


 
Yeah, well, I wrote social criticism and world didn't become a better place, but it was I who was all stressed, depressed (and really depressed - I didn't see the reason to get out of the bed, why, because I have to live in this *beep* world) frustrated and angry (because I could write it only when I was pissed off (can I write that?) enough). It didn't helped me, or other people. Since then, I'm through with that. People don't understand, don't want to understand, don't want any changes because that would influence their cozy little lives. White beach is beautiful, but not too realistic. I'm not idealist like I used to be. Ideals are lethal, especially for young minds. 



David Gordon Burke said:


> I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'd rather make $10,000 a year selling books that I enjoyed writing and believe in that make $1,000,000 writing drek.


 
Me too. And if I ever stumble, I think I'm gonna stop writing. 



David Gordon Burke said:


> Finally, how did someone make being a philosopher a negative thing?  Did you interrupt their episode of Spongebob with some deep thoughts?  Why would you care?
> 
> David Gordon Burke



Oh, I didn't care. It's not the topic, but I was individual since always. Yes, everybody is individual, but I was the most individual individual in my environment. And when you're different, people are afraid, and tend to mock you so they could cover their ignorance. I grew up in not at all stimulative environment; my parents thought I'm wasting time on writing (and I write since I was 10), friends and neighbours were wondering how could I play with myself all the time, for hours. I've had my imagination and that was enough. My environment didn't appreciate knowledge; you had to finish school, find a job and that's it. Every other activity including learning something new that wasn't part of school program was stupid (no one ever forbid me to do that, but it was one of "my perks"). 
It's wonder I came up to be like this; having a hunger for knowledge and still writing. So yeah, being categorized as philosopher was very negative in my world.


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## qwertyportne (Feb 13, 2014)

patskywriter said:


> So … if you put your heart and soul and a ton of work in writing something that, after numerous edits and rewrites doesn't sell, you'd actually feel that you haven't written a good book? Is that the only way to define success? Is there only one type of success?



Your comment reminded me to say "Thumbs up to authors who like/love to write." The journey and the destination can be rewarding. Is it easy? Of course not. But it's work and play. If not, well, maybe we should go back to operating elevators. 

And our attitude towards the journey and the destination affects our writing and therefore our readers. “There is no trick or cunning, no art or recipe," wrote Walt Whitman, "by which you can have in your writing what you do not possess in yourself. Understand that you cannot keep out of your writing whatever evil or shallowness you entertain in yourself.” Probably more than a few authors who have managed to hide their "evil or shallowness" (or enjoy fabulous success because of it), but I prefer Whitman's approach.

"All tragedies are stupid. I'll take _A Midsummer Night's Dream_ over _Hamlet_ every time. Any fool with steady hands and a working set of lungs can build up a house of cards and then blow it down -- it takes a genius to make people laugh.” ~Stephen King


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## David Gordon Burke (Feb 14, 2014)

Schrody said:


> Yeah, well, I wrote social criticism and world didn't become a better place, but it was I who was all stressed, depressed (and really depressed - I didn't see the reason to get out of the bed, why, because I have to live in this *beep* world) frustrated and angry (because I could write it only when I was pissed off (can I write that?) enough). It didn't helped me, or other people. Since then, I'm through with that. People don't understand, don't want to understand, don't want any changes because that would influence their cozy little lives. White beach is beautiful, but not too realistic. I'm not idealist like I used to be. Ideals are lethal, especially for young minds.



Therein lay the problems of the world in general.
1.  No one will take a stand because of how it affects them.  There was a time when the moral fiber of many or maybe most societies was that EVERYONE would stand up.  Now that NO ONE will take a stand, the Powers that Be do whatever they want with impunity.  
2.  The negative affect of taking a stand, while sometimes bad should be compared to the negative affect of not taking a stand, which is almost always worse.  It also guarantees a worse world for future generations.  (Like our children)
3.  If you wrote about an injustice...don't kid yourself, you made the world a better place.  
4.  Your feelings about the world you live in, were they amplified by writing about it?  You didn't feel any pride or satisfaction for being one of the few that at least tried to make a difference?  

I am reminded of a famous quote by Martin Miemoller - call it a crude justification for my abrasive character but it's something I live my life by.  Here in Mexico NO ONE ever says anything about the things the Government does and the vicious nature of the people and their attitudes towards each other.  So...the injustice and crime and murder and mayhem just go on and on and on.  
I call everyone out on everything.  

The quote:
_First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist._ 
_Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--_ 
_Because I was not a Trade Unionist._ 
_Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--_ 
_Because I was not a Jew._ 
_Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me._ 

David Gordon Burke


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## qwertyportne (Feb 14, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> My intention, as offensive as some might find it, is to question the INDIE or amateur or semi-pro writer who is up in arms and slagging the Amazon phenom.  I'm not buying it.



Thumbs up for that. Nothing is perfect, not even Amazon, but why do we spend more time slagging stuff than calling attention to why it's also good? Psychiatrists have answers, of course, but unless I'm misinterpreting history, what Amazon did (is doing) for independent authors and the electronic distribution of books on everything from A to Z, well, it's right up there with the wheel, penicillin, the printing press, light bulbs, telephones, television, motorcycles (I'm not against four wheels, just prefer two), flush toilets, the evolution from analog to digital computers (Yeah!), the Internet and Windows (Bill Gates, I love you!). It's a great time to be alive. It's a great time to be a writer. And according to my grandmother, it always has been. Now there's a woman who had a right to complain. At eight years old, she... for crying out loud, I'm hi-jacking my own thread! "Somebody stop me!"


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## JJack (Feb 14, 2014)

If we spend all our time as writers complaining about the other 1,000,000 books published in North America each year (about 500,000 self published e-books and POD runs) we'll never actually write anything. It's a daunting number to see how much drivel is pushed onto the digital market when we have a huge opportunity to create real works of art and reach markets that were never dreamed of in the print era. Yes, there are some really awful things on the digital market but I think there are some real quality works as well and as a community of writers with our own friends and groups we could probably make the gems popular versus the drivel.

Overcome the crap by being better than the crap and pushing your limits, ignore the crap because the people pushing that out aren't concerned with quality (or they have no concept of it, whether it's willful ignorance is not is up for debate) and instead they fret over dollars. Digital publishing is a huge opportunity we didn't have five years ago, at least not to the state it is in now. Make use of it, utilize it, and prove to all the readers out there that you're work is something worth reading rather than Antigua, which I hope no one on here wrote I just did a search for the lowest rated books on Amazon...

Personally I love the digital movement and revolution, as much as I love holding the book I know that the only way to keep literature alive as technology advances is to adapt to it.


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## spartan928 (Feb 15, 2014)

My mom used to say to me when I was a child "If you don't like what's on TV shut the thing off". Implying that the proliferation of self-published books to the tune of thousands per week is a problem is not looking at it from the proper perspective. Focusing on the quality of your writing is a given and is a completely separate matter from publishing. 

Sure, lamenting all the rubbish that hits the web every day isn't productive. Nor is it true that all that stuff floating out there impacts your chances for success. The reality of billions of self-published books on Amazon doesn't have squat to do with you selling your book. Let me repeat this concept; it is not the job of readers to find you. It is your job to find readers.


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## Caragula (Feb 15, 2014)

Agreed Spartan, but the lamentation comes from 'the rubbish' making the job of finding readers incredibly hard.  There's an interesting question as to the balance of effort between writing and marketing that writing.


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## JJack (Feb 15, 2014)

Caragula said:


> There's an interesting question as to the balance of effort between writing and marketing that writing.



The most interesting question. Many writers are not marketers and many marketers are not writers. There are some who can fill both roles but the vast difference between the two mindsets makes that difficult. I've read so many blogs, posts, articles, and more on marketing your writing for success (bah). As a student of marketing I have seen those types fall prey to writing for money instead of writing what they want to write, solely because they have developed the readership base for a certain "genre" or type of work.

It's a tough life being a self-published author, you have to play so many roles unless you garner sudden and spectacular fame (we can only hope and dream, right?) that it becomes difficult to determine which role you fill. That's why there are many terrible books that are self-published, the person can't fill all those roles properly (or has no desire to).


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## spartan928 (Feb 15, 2014)

Caragula said:


> Agreed Spartan, but the lamentation comes from 'the rubbish' making the job of finding readers incredibly hard.  There's an interesting question as to the balance of effort between writing and marketing that writing.



That's where my opinion differs from those who think that the presence of said "rubbish" makes any difference at all. It doesn't in my opinion. JJ jack makes some excellent points and goes to the root of the discussion of self-publishing. Yet, even if there were only 10 books a day self-published instead of 1000 there is no greater incentive for anyone to read your work if they don't find a compelling reason to do so. That germ of interest has to be generated by the self-published author apart from the work just lying there on Amazon. You can call it marketing or whatever, but the truth is if an author doesn't, can't or won't hustle his work to readers in creative ways, it won't sell. And the statistical truth is writers who rise to that occasion are a very rare breed.


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## Caragula (Feb 15, 2014)

I can't see how you can think it doesn't make a difference.  That thousand others aren't just sitting there to be found on Amazon, that's a thousand other people marketing the heck out of their work, or certainly enough that the difference between 10 and a 1000 in your example proves my point.  You aren't the only one getting creative, lots of others are, and so there is this question of balance, because you have to be improving as a writer and building your catalogue of work.


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