# Your thoughts on a "how to" book



## Mklangelo (Mar 21, 2008)

I have bought a copy of Jeff Kitchen's "[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]*"Writing a Great Movie: Key Tools  for Successful Screenwriting"*


I'd like to hear what those who may have read this book think of it. The book comes highly recommended considering the glowing reviews.  Mr. Kitchen does seem to have an impressive reputation as a screen writing instructor.

Thanks in advance for any input.
 [/SIZE][/FONT]


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## Linton Robinson (Mar 21, 2008)

What would a great reputation as a writing instructor be?   Lots of his students became successful writers?   But he didn't?

I tend to advise people not to waste money on how to write books.  There's plenty around on the internet and most of the stuff in the books is bullshit.


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## Mklangelo (Mar 21, 2008)

lin said:


> What would a great reputation as a writing instructor be?   Lots of his students became successful writers?   But he didn't?
> 
> I tend to advise people not to waste money on how to write books.  There's plenty around on the internet and most of the stuff in the books is bullshit.



Well, to dismiss someone or something out of hand, is bs.  Keep your foul mouth and your cynicism to yourself.

I grabbed this off of Amazon.com: 
"JEFF KITCHEN is a working writer and has taught screenwriting professionally since 1989. He was classically trained as a playwright, worked as a dramaturg in New York theatre, and taught playwriting Off Broadway. Jeff has taught advanced structural technique to development executives from all the major Hollywood studios and is a sought-after script doctor."

What are your credentials?

I asked for opinions from someone who might have read the book.


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## Linton Robinson (Mar 22, 2008)

So he has taught, but never sold anything?   This is just typical of these "how to write books"    You don't have to read them all to know this.

Sought after script doctor means conning wannabes (like you)    Teaching "technique" to executives means coaching them on buzzwords so they can sound like they know something when they talk to writers and producers.     So when people say  "Oh, you have to know about 3 act structure because they'll bring it up at meetings"  what they've saying is:   some pumped up guru/pimp has primed these MBA idiots with some jargon and they expect the writers to go along with it.

Hey, if you don't like my mouth and cynicism boy,  let me highly recommend that you go fuck yourself.   

Or possibly listen to people with more experience and you might learn something.   Unlikely, but certainly possible.

Now, weren't you about to go fuck yourself or something?


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## Mklangelo (Mar 22, 2008)

I'm still not seeing those "credentials" that give you the right or justification to dismiss my willingness to at least take a 15.00 chance on the Jeff Kitchen guy. I'm willing to admit I'm one Cherry-ass rookie.  As a matter of fact, I'll maybe achieve rookie status if I finish one screenplay. Since my "credentials" don't even exist, I feel if I spend 15 bucks on a book by someone with at least some overblown credentials, I will be ahead of the game.  At my stage any knowledge beats what I have now.  

You have that coming since all I did was question you and you suggested some anatomically impossible act.  You are indeed a rude little person. 

And if we met, and you talked to me this way, you could go home and tell your boyfriend you got beat up by a "boy".


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## winkash (Mar 22, 2008)

Hey! You have a piece of script here. I love it, mainly MK's last response:lol:


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## Linton Robinson (Mar 22, 2008)

> And if we met, and you talked to me this way, you could go home and tell your boyfriend you got beat up by a "boy".



Oh, I just so seriously doubt that.  But dick-measuring on the internet is about as "boy" as it gets.

There is plenty of information on screenwriting available on the internet.  Much of it by people who have written some extremely successful movies.   

For a cheery assed-little rookie you don't seem too interested in knowing about them, just spending money then getting pissed off at anybody saying it might not be such a great investment.

You get personal and assholical, you can't really bitch if it comes back.   When you get your attitude together, let us know and you might learn something.


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## Wallmaker (Mar 23, 2008)

MK,
Welcome.  If you don't like what Lin says, just ignore him.  It's that easy.  Other people will post and answer your question.

My opinion?  Try the book.  It can't hurt.  I have a lot of screenwriting books on my shelf as well as scripts I really admire and other works that inspire me.  I haven't read Kitchen's book, but I think I got a DVD of his with my copy of final draft.  His DVD was for the very beginner, like yourself, but his recommendations felt on the right track to good writing habits which I think the beginning screenwriter might not immediately think about (such as writing a treatment, taking time to work on plotpoints, etc).  I'm assuming his book may be the same.  If anything, it will be an educational read on one person's take on screenwriting.

The screenwriting book I always go to when I need a little pick me up is William Goldman's Adventures in the Screentrade.  It's been out a long time, so check you library for a good free read.  It's more anecdotal about the business of Hollywood.  But there's also some great advice and points that I see in screenwriting how to books over and over. 

So, take a deep breath.  Welcome to the forum.  Stick around.  We don't all bite.

Cheers,
Kay


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## Linton Robinson (Mar 23, 2008)

> as well as scripts I really admire



THAT is what you should be reading.   And lots can be had free off the internet.

As can reams of great advice from people who know what they are talking about and have sold successful, even blockbuster/awardwinning scripts.

The only scriptwriting book I ever had was by Goldman.  What a guy.  Trouble is, by being old, it also made me write my first script all full of camera angles and CAPS and crap that is no longer done in spec scripts.

In fact , the Immutable Laws of Screenplays change fairly frequently...another good reason to use the internet for a source.

You could settle down in this forum and not snap and maybe, as I mentioned learn something.  OR you could go to forums that specialize in screenwriting and get much better input.  writingforums is a cool place, but scriptwriting is NOT the long suit here.


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## Mklangelo (Mar 25, 2008)

lin said:


> THAT is what you should be reading.   And lots can be had free off the internet.
> 
> As can reams of great advice from people who know what they are talking about and have sold successful, even blockbuster/awardwinning scripts.
> 
> ...




No problem Lin.  My approach is empty vessel(me).  Sure I think I have something to say, and I think I know how to say it.  But as for the whole screen writing thing, I know SQUAT...  as in diddly.  So be it then.  I'm off to the races, warts and all.

And about our little tiff, I mean no harm bro.  I'm sure we'd share a cold one with no problems.  I hope ya' win the lottery tomorrow.  Okay?

PS; I have been a madman on the internet lately.  I've checked out plenty of stuff on writing.  I'm the type that likes to treat info like a big-ass buffet.  
Just because it's on the table, don't mean I'm gonna partake of it.  It's what I'm hungry for that dictates what I put on my plate.  Fair enough?


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## Mklangelo (Mar 25, 2008)

Wallmaker said:


> MK,
> Welcome.  If you don't like what Lin says, just ignore him.  It's that easy.  Other people will post and answer your question.
> 
> My opinion?  Try the book.  It can't hurt.  I have a lot of screenwriting books on my shelf as well as scripts I really admire and other works that inspire me.  I haven't read Kitchen's book, but I think I got a DVD of his with my copy of final draft.  His DVD was for the very beginner, like yourself, but his recommendations felt on the right track to good writing habits which I think the beginning screenwriter might not immediately think about (such as writing a treatment, taking time to work on plotpoints, etc).  I'm assuming his book may be the same.  If anything, it will be an educational read on one person's take on screenwriting.
> ...



Thanks for the input Wall.  
Yes.  Just from reading off the net and browsing around, I understand that the first steps of a screenplay are treatment.  I'm really thinking about my protagonist.  My plot.  I think if I lay that out to my satisfaction, I'll have sort of a "blueprint" for my story.  
I won't start until I have a good understanding of that.


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## Linton Robinson (Mar 25, 2008)

I understand just what you're saying.  (And I appreciate your comments on these post, and reciprocate your apology for any hard feelings I might have caused simply by being a grouchy asshole)

I would suggest that you pursue your appetite for screenwriting format and styles on forums that are more dedicated to script writing.

absolutewrite.com  has a script section with more action and input than this one has.

I would post some scenes on forums to see if you've got the basic format down.

Then there's a sort of progression up through websites for screenwriters.  I say progression because they get more advanced and the people on them more expert and jumping right in with pros or Nicholl winners before you've reached the stage where they are helpful to you can waste everybody's time and piss everybody off.    

Next step would be something like donedeal.com forums

Or the hotshot forums with a lot of real pros involved. It's best to keep some respect and make sure questions and scenes here are thought out and ready to show.
http://www.wordplayer.com/ 
is owned by the guys who wrote Shrek and Pirates of the Carribean. They are very touchy there about posting to much and if you try to showoff, you'll get set down. Great advice.  They have a LOT of stuff to read, too.   One reason I downplay books is because there is tutorial stuff like this from guys like Terry who have written some of the most successful scripts of all time--free.

So is this one, owned by the guy who wrote Scary Movie 3 and other stuff
The Artful Forum

The full-force approach is the formal peer review site where you enter entire screenplays for critique (after first reviewing 4 by others...educational in itself) They also have forums there and "offices"...private forums by invitation to keep out the assholes.

Those would be Kevin Spacey's Triggerstreet.com
and Francis Ford Copplola's zoetrope.com

Good luck


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## Mklangelo (Mar 25, 2008)

Lin.  I really do appreciate the info.  I'm a long way off on some of those but I won't forget em'.

Thanks for the links.  Now go buy that winning lottery ticket already...


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## Mklangelo (Mar 25, 2008)

dual post. oops.


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## Mike C (Mar 26, 2008)

The day I see a 'how to' book written by a successful screenwriter, I'll buy it. In writing' sadly, those that can, do; those that can't, write 'how to' books.


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## Mklangelo (Mar 26, 2008)

I hear ya Mike.  But my thing is, at least learn SOMETHING since right now, I'm like Sgt. Shultz on "Hogan's Heros"  I know nothing.  The books I'm talking about are just basic stuff like how a plot works, character arc, avoiding stupid mistakes etc... no artistic advice at all.  Just nuts and bolts stuff.  Hell, either you can write something someone will want to KEEP reading, or ya' can't.  No book is gonna teach you that anyhow.

To achieve a diverse approach on my learning adventure, I'm gonna read some of James Cameron's scripts.  I'll start with "The Abyss"  I've heard from a few different folks on the net, that don't know each other, that that's a good thing to do.


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## Mike C (Mar 26, 2008)

The only thing that can be taught, I think, is how to format a script acceptably. Everything else comes from between the ears.

I think I learned the most by getting hold of Schrader's screenplay for Taxi Driver and reading it while watching the movie. It also taught me how phenomenal De Niro is as a performer ("You talkin' to me?" was ad-libbed) and how brilliant Scorcese is as a director.


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