# Swearing In Books.



## Denv12 (Jan 25, 2018)

So far I've been able to write 120 pages of my book without swearing.I'm please about that.When I read through it ,it just seems so much nicer without any swearing.

I have read books on various subjects where the author has used foul language.  At what point can the use of swear words can be used when writing a book? And when shouldnt swearing be used in a book?
Thanks.

Just for the record,I'm writing a dating advice book.


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## RhythmOvPain (Jan 25, 2018)

Dialogue is built around the characters' unique personalities. Your job as the author is to create those personalities and be as true as possible to them.

I have an example of cursing which you may appreciate:

Noscomephobia is an old Silent Hill fanfic by Mr. Caliche (Carlos Rivera), and the main character is Stephanie.

She has just woken up from a coma and was dealing with emotional distance from her mother (based around the change in their relationship), and at one point she becomes so flustered, all she can say is "FUCK!"

That's one of the most poignant uses of the F-bomb I've ever seen used in fiction.


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## Skodt (Jan 26, 2018)

Cursing is just more words in my word bank. I don't pull them if they are needed and I don't insert them just because. They work for some of my characters and some wouldn't say them at all. I think it is like reality, you meet different kinds of people everywhere and each person has their own way to convey something. Give a group of 10 people a story to memorize and then summarize to a group and you will find you have 10 stories that come to the same point but have been displayed in 10 different ways.


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## Denv12 (Jan 26, 2018)

I like your reply.I enjoy the way you explain it.Thank you for helping there,RhythmOvPain.

I edited my post to let people know the book I'm writing is a dating guide.I might add the odd word where appropriate.

Thans again.
Denv12.


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## Denv12 (Jan 26, 2018)

Thank you Skodt.
You raise some interesting ideas.
I would incorporate the odd word in the right place.I can always change it using keyboard characters like %*#,etc.
Denv12.


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## Bayview (Jan 26, 2018)

I don't think swearing is at all necessary in non-fiction... I'd be surprised to see it in a dating advice book, to be honest. (But then, I'd be surprised to be _reading_ a dating advice book, so I'm clearly not your target audience.)

In fiction? I generally write in a fairly close POV, so if my character would swear, my narrative will swear. And certainly in dialogue, if it's appropriate for the character. I do think it's useful to remember that dialogue is _not_ a literal transcription of real-world conversations... we clean things up, streamline them, make the dialogue better than real life. So if I had a character who dropped the f-bomb twice in every sentence, I'd probably clean that up a bit just for readability. But I'd certainly leave a few in for flavour.


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## Roac (Jan 26, 2018)

In fiction, I think swearing is very beneficial at the right moments to help express the emotions of the characters. As RhythmOvPain showed in the example, that one word at the end tells the reader a lot about what the character is feeling, without the sentence becoming wordy.

In your book, if you are giving examples of people talking about dates, especially bad dates, then I would be surprised not to find any swears. I think it is human nature to slip a few words into conversation or description of events now and then. 

Would you be able to provide a short excerpt from your book to let people see in what context you are using the swears? It might help to get focused feedback as opposed to more general answers.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 26, 2018)

Swearing is lazy writing.  If the only way you can show a character is feeling intense emotion is by having them curse, your writing skills need work.

And yes, I've heard the argument that "you have to be true to the characters, and if the character would swear, then they should swear."  But who created the character? Who made the conscious choice that this particular character was the sort of person who curses a lot?


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## RhythmOvPain (Jan 26, 2018)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Swearing is lazy writing.  If the only way you can show a character is feeling intense emotion is by having them curse, your writing skills need work.
> 
> And yes, I've heard the argument that "you have to be true to the characters, and if the character would swear, then they should swear."  But who created the character? Who made the conscious choice that this particular character was the sort of person who curses a lot?



Swearing isn't lazy unless there's no context behind the swear words being used.


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## Terry D (Jan 26, 2018)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Swearing is lazy writing.  If the only way you can show a character is feeling intense emotion is by having them curse, your writing skills need work.
> 
> And yes, I've heard the argument that "you have to be true to the characters, and if the character would swear, then they should swear."  But who created the character? Who made the conscious choice that this particular character was the sort of person who curses a lot?



One of my novels had scenes involving gang-bangers involved with a dog-fighting ring. Dialogue in those scenes without swearing would be unrealistic. As has been mentioned already, you don't need to write using the same level of profanity as in real-life conversations, but to not represent it it because the author personally doesn't like profanity would be dishonest.

Real world swearing isn't always the result of intense emotion. Often it is cultural.


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## seigfried007 (Jan 26, 2018)

Denv12 said:


> So far I've been able to write 120 pages of my book without swearing.I'm please about that.When I read through it ,it just seems so much nicer without any swearing.
> 
> I have read books on various subjects where the author has used foul language.  At what point can the use of swear words can be used when writing a book? And when shouldnt swearing be used in a book?
> Thanks.
> ...



Why would you use a swear word in a dating advice book anyway? How is this an accomplishment even?


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## Bayview (Jan 26, 2018)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Swearing is lazy writing.  If the only way you can show a character is feeling intense emotion is by having them curse, your writing skills need work.
> 
> And yes, I've heard the argument that "you have to be true to the characters, and if the character would swear, then they should swear."  But who created the character? Who made the conscious choice that this particular character was the sort of person who curses a lot?



I never understand the "lazy writing" line. I mean... does it mean using the simplest tool to achieve the desired effect? If so, I'm lazy as hell. Why the hell would I do things the hard way?

Now, I don't always/generally use swear words as a way to convey strong emotion, but if they're the most efficient way to achieve that goal, then, yeah. I'm gonna use 'em.

Do you deliberately write in ways you know are more difficult? Why?


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 26, 2018)

Bayview said:


> I never understand the "lazy writing" line. I mean... does it mean using the simplest tool to achieve the desired effect? If so, I'm lazy as hell. Why the hell would I do things the hard way?
> 
> Now, I don't always/generally use swear words as a way to convey strong emotion, but if they're the most efficient way to achieve that goal, then, yeah. I'm gonna use 'em.
> 
> Do you deliberately write in ways you know are more difficult? Why?



Let's say you open a book, and in chapter one, you're introduced to Prot A. Gonist, a handsome fellow who makes his appearance by rescuing a baby from a burning building.  In chapter two, Ant A. Gonist shows up, and his very first action is shooting an underling and drowning a kitten.  Now, I can't imagine an easier way to establish that one is the good guy and one is the bad guy (outside of outright saying, "Prot was good.  Ant was bad." ...which I suppose we could do).  But would you, personally, write that way? Or would you deliberately choose something "more difficult"?


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## Denv12 (Jan 26, 2018)

Hi Bayview.
Thank you for replying.
I like your ideas.It makes sense not to swear.As its a dating book I havent found a place for it so I continued on without swearing.
It just sounds so much better. I guess if I had to add any word appropriately I could always use characters like *#&. 

Thanks again.
Denv12.


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## Skodt (Jan 26, 2018)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Let's say you open a book, and in chapter one, you're introduced to Prot A. Gonist, a handsome fellow who makes his appearance by rescuing a baby from a burning building. In chapter two, Ant A. Gonist shows up, and his very first action is shooting an underling and drowning a kitten. Now, I can't imagine an easier way to establish that one is the good guy and one is the bad guy (outside of outright saying, "Prot was good. Ant was bad." ...which I suppose we could do). But would you, personally, write that way? Or would you deliberately choose something "more difficult"?



I find it interesting that you are so perturbed by the idea of using profanity. You're way isn't wrong, or lesser, for that fact, but why the hatred for it? If you figure that reality is using these curse words and that a lot of people curse daily then what is the hold back from a character doing so? I am not saying stories need profanity to work in all stories, but some stories ( example Mark Lawrence's work) would not be the same story without the cursing and I have always enjoyed his work. I enjoy work by those who barely use cursing at all, and those who never use it as well. It is a mixing pot and I never take a tool out of the belt if I think it still has its uses. I would be interested in hearing what your hold up with it is. You stated lazy, but how so? Stories evolve with character making and some characters are profanity driven.


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## Bayview (Jan 26, 2018)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Let's say you open a book, and in chapter one, you're introduced to Prot A. Gonist, a handsome fellow who makes his appearance by rescuing a baby from a burning building.  In chapter two, Ant A. Gonist shows up, and his very first action is shooting an underling and drowning a kitten.  Now, I can't imagine an easier way to establish that one is the good guy and one is the bad guy (outside of outright saying, "Prot was good.  Ant was bad." ...which I suppose we could do).  But would you, personally, write that way? Or would you deliberately choose something "more difficult"?



I'd choose something less cliched and simplistic, but not because I'm hard working. I'd choose something less cliched because my goal is to write something entertaining and reasonably original: it would be really _difficult _to write something entertaining and original if I were dedicated to cliches and two-dimensional characters.

Are you using "lazy" as a synonym for "unoriginal"? Or... is there another word you could use that would help me understand what your objection is?


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## sas (Jan 26, 2018)

I use every word in my vast, inclusive coloring box; often in my daily language. Of course, I recommend total control over which color is picked, depending upon circumstance (many of the young haven't learned control yet). Control is the operative word. I say, "Use 'em, if ya got 'em" ... at the appropriate time.


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## andrewclunn (Jan 26, 2018)

Swear words have shock value if they break social convention.  They're now so widely used that they don't have any shock value, save in young adult works, where you should be avoiding them anyways.  So I guess only in dialog.  The narrator should never swear, unless it's first person, in which case it depends on the character.  True to the time period as well for those sorts of pieces.  Oh and please never use "n-word," "c-word," "f-word," or anything like that.  Either write out the actual word or don't bother.


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## RhythmOvPain (Jan 26, 2018)

andrewclunn said:


> Swear words have shock value if they break social convention.  They're now so widely used that they don't have any shock value, save in young adult works, where you should be avoiding them anyways.  So I guess only in dialog.  The narrator should never swear, unless it's first person, in which case it depends on the character.  True to the time period as well for those sorts of pieces.  Oh and please never use "n-word," "c-word," "f-word," or anything like that.  Either write out the actual word or don't bother.



See, now, my narrator curses in stories with mature themes; I want my reader to feel like they're being told a story by their friend, or at the very least, think of the narrator as a personality all their own.

This is one of the key ways my writing differs from others, and I won't be told not to have my narrator curse/show some personality if that's what _I'm_ aiming for.


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## Denv12 (Jan 26, 2018)

I guess there's a time and place for it whether its fiction or non fiction. I own a variety of non fiction books where there is no swearing,some with some swearing and other books without swearing at all. I dont mind it either way.They are all good books.

The book I am writing is on dating advice.As I read back through the book I keep looking to see where an appropriate word would fit in.There are dating books that do have the odd swear word and some that have more than their fair share.I keep an open mind.


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## Bayview (Jan 27, 2018)

andrewclunn said:


> Swear words have shock value if they break social convention.  They're now so widely used that they don't have any shock value, save in young adult works, where you should be avoiding them anyways.  So I guess only in dialog.  The narrator should never swear, unless it's first person, in which case it depends on the character.  True to the time period as well for those sorts of pieces.  Oh and please never use "n-word," "c-word," "f-word," or anything like that.  Either write out the actual word or don't bother.



My characters in YA swear. Not as much as real-world teenagers do, but a bit.

I've never had a publisher complain.


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## Gofa (Jan 28, 2018)

I side with Sas   I paint with words and I’m damned if I limit colours available


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## moderan (Jan 28, 2018)

The 'taboo' against swearing is stupid and puritanical to me. I dunno if I would cuss in a children's book (I didn't cuss around my kids, stepkids, or grandkids) but my characters talk like people and people swear a LOT (I'm one of them -- when I get mad I get verbal and creative and stop swearing. In everyday speech I sound like a longshoreman). So many words have emotional freight nowadays that it doesn't make sense to avoid anything. Someone's gonna get offended no matter what. 
I've never had a publisher complain either.


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## Terry D (Jan 29, 2018)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> Let's say you open a book, and in chapter one, you're introduced to Prot A. Gonist, a handsome fellow who makes his appearance by rescuing a baby from a burning building.  In chapter two, Ant A. Gonist shows up, and his very first action is shooting an underling and drowning a kitten.  Now, I can't imagine an easier way to establish that one is the good guy and one is the bad guy (outside of outright saying, "Prot was good.  Ant was bad." ...which I suppose we could do).  But would you, personally, write that way? Or would you deliberately choose something "more difficult"?



I'd wonder what went on in the Gonist family to make these siblings so utterly different.


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## LeeC (Jan 29, 2018)

This might shed some light on the subject:

Swearing Is Good For You—And Chimps Do It, Too

I think where it's necessary in depicting a character, it's fine if the author doesn't get carried away. That type of character possibly being one that has some real problems ;-)


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## Larry (Jan 30, 2018)

In my completed novel, my characters occasionally swear. My MC is caught in a situation he was not prepared for, and for some scenes and incidents, some swearing seemed natural. I did not use the 'F' word in the book, as I felt that was going too far for the characters and situations. I should mention that I am fluent in profanity, and I'm not afraid to use it (including the 'F' word) when it seems to fit the situation. In the novel, I toned it down. 

In my non-fiction book about sports, I used profanity a bit more liberally, though still not using the 'F' word. I used profanity because sports are often highly emotional, and can produce colorful outbursts, such as "Holy s**t, that was a great play!" or "GD it, that was a stupid call!"

My take: if you're comfortable using it, and you feel that swearing would help to convey the intended emotion in your stories, then do it. On the other hand, poorly done swearing is bad for a story. If you don't know how to use it, it can come off awkwardly.


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## H.Brown (Jan 30, 2018)

I like Robert Jordan's way of swearing in his books. He makes up his own, using what to me sound like common old wives tales, but in his and other fantasy books use these as expeltives. 

However overall it would depend on the writers target audience. As if you aim for young adults then the characters probably  wouldn't swear.


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## Gofa (Jan 30, 2018)

In simple terms 
all the people who swear 
all the cultures that deem it a normal part of life
can not naturally form a part of your writing plot or character selection

Billy Connolly   A gentleman and a scholar 
imagine him not swearing

he would be 

Billy Connolly  a mute

in terms of table manners and place settings

Get da Fork out a here 
Ya must be Forking dreaming ? 

Glaswegian just go with the accent  

I suppose you want no cultery in writing either


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## JJBuchholz (Feb 3, 2018)

I normally stay away from cursing/expletives in my writing. There has been the rare time when I've used one expletive (and not the f-word either) to set a tone in a scene, but that was it. Facial expressions and body language written properly can do a much better job than just throwing in expletives. 

Besides, it's too easy. Writing is also about challenging yourself as you go.

-J.


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## Arrakis (Feb 16, 2018)

The reason why curse words are considered offensive is because they're usually tied to a subject that a large group of people are sensitive about. That is why the n-word is such a dangerous word to use; because of the immense emotional baggage it carries. Also, I'm assuming everyone here has read Harry Potter. Remember how nobody was allowed to say "Voldemort"? The more taboo a word is to somebody, the greater the "shock value", as a previous poster put it. Every language, not just English, has taboo words.

Nowadays, people all over the world reprimand others for using curse words without even knowing why they are "bad", or why they were not permitted to speak them. Since the words are taboo, children often consider themselves "cool" for having the nerve to use said words. But frankly, it just gets stale after a while. I personally don't care if others curse. The way I see it: words are just words. Nothing more. Sounds and symbols created by humans as a means to communicate. They only affect you if you let them. It is not the words themselves that affect us, but rather our attachment _to_ those words.

That all said, one word that might not bother the average person may very well brass of an outlier for whatever reason. It's all about points of view.

Personally, I say the word "damn" a lot. Not because I'm cross or anything, but because it's just a common word for me. I usually don't use other curse words, simply because I find them to be clichéd. I prefer to find more creative ways to be prickly.

Now that you know why curse words are "bad", here's some food for thought: why is your character affected by that word? Did somebody call them by that word when they were little? Was there a trauma linked to that word? Try working on that.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 16, 2018)

Arrakis said:


> I personally don't care if others curse. The way I see it: words are just words. Nothing more. Sounds and symbols created by humans as a means to communicate. They only affect you if you let them. It is not the words themselves that affect us, but rather our attachment _to_ those words.



That may be fine for you personally as a reader, but as a writer, your opinion of curse words doesn't really matter much; what matters is how your readers perceive them.

Besides, what's the point of writing if all words are equal in emotional impact? Isn't the whole point of our craft to affect our readers, regardless of if they "let" us? And doesn't the fact that we can do just that prove that "words are just words" is utter nonsense?


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## Arrakis (Feb 16, 2018)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> That may be fine for you personally as a reader, but as a writer, your opinion of curse words doesn't really matter much; what matters is how your readers perceive them.



This is true.



> Besides, what's the point of writing if all words are equal in emotional impact? Isn't the whole point of our craft to affect our readers, regardless of if they "let" us? And doesn't the fact that we can do just that prove that "words are just words" is utter nonsense?



Interesting argument.

Indeed, the whole point of fiction is to elicit emotion. If everyone in the book talked like a robot, things would get boring pretty fast. Furthermore, our _own_ ability to feel affects our ability to write. Which, quite frankly, is why writing hasn't been going well for me recently, due to an unsolicited change.


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