# Need help with one character concept- is she too stereotypical? (Adult content)



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

So. 
My story is about a world where some people have magical powers, and some don't. 
And (unless you're an executioner, which I can get to later) if you kill a person, you gain their powers. All of them. And keep your own. 

King Shaan lets these murders, as long as they're amongst the commoners, go largely unpunished. The main character, Araceli, really doesn't care much- until her own mother gets brutally murdered when she is somehow outed as a gifted oracle. So 16-year-old Ara starts a goddamn revolution, and starts by recruiting this rag-tag team of sorta-losers. 

Then, this mysterious stranger comes along in the night, wrapped in a shawl, being very vague about her identity. Then, soon, it dawns on Ara who she is, after hearing whispering about a young noblewoman named Cira in town. 

When this cloaked stranger visits the rebels' camp that night, Ara confronts her about who she is. 

She reveals that she's actually the daughter of one of the politicians who supports the king, and that since she has an inner knowledge of the workings of the system, she's been appalled by the links between the king and the gods of the underworld, and she has heard what her servants have said about their families' lives and the power-killings and such going on in commoner/peasant society. 

So Ara and the rebels accept her into the group, and she tells them that she never does anything half-assed- she goes all in. So she steals all of her parents' wealth and weaponry, risking a huge bounty put on her head, and funds the rebels. 

She is a Celtic-looking girl, pale skin the color of bone, with blue-green eyes and freckles, thin lips, and hair that makes Black Widow's look dull. She's abrasive and honest, and speaks with a bit of a Scottish accent, but tends to speak in hushed tones half the time, mostly due to her upbringing as nobility. 

And she was born with fire powers. She can shoot fire, set herself on fire and expand the inferno out, and set objects ablaze up to 20 feet away from her. She also has been trained in fencing, as a woman in nobility in a fairly gender-neutral society. In her battles, she kills people and acquires powers of teleportation and super-speed, as well as being able to make multiple copies of herself. She may have other powers from other kills, of which she is not aware. 

She's also the lesbian love interest for Araceli. They have an interesting relationship, because Ara is romantically interested in her, but not sexually. Like I said, interesting. 

So she's beautiful, the love interest, with red hair and fire powers, a bit of a temper and a pottymouth, a cool accent, a skilled fighter, has a bounty on her head, etc. 

Is she too much of a Mary Sue? 

In Book 2, "The Queen of Rain" (tentative title), she ends up fighting against Ara, who becomes queen of the kingdom, and becomes even more corrupt and evil than Shaan, and practically declares a Battle Royale-esque form of genocide in the kingdom regarding people with few powers. So she ends up trying to convince Ara to stop, and realize what she's become, and rely on her wisdom provided by the goddess who granted her life to begin with. It works. Oh yes. Ara is so filled with regret that she fucking kills herself. 

Book 3 is the aftermath. Never in the kingdom has there been no heir, no slayer of the ruler, or anything like that. The kingdom is in complete disarray. And, the statute is still in effect, due to the brainwashing of the royal court and the executioners, that people with fewer than 2 powers (those who have not gained powers through kills) must be killed. And she still has a bounty on her head, even more now than before. And she has the guilt of knowing that she drove her ex-girlfriend, who she still really does love, to suicide. 

Rebel groups from across the kingdom are banding together to try and overthrow the monarchy, while every damn person ever is claiming that they somehow deserve to be King or Queen. Yet Cira knows- she's the one who truly "killed" Ara. Even though she didn't gain any of her powers, she knows that the death was technically at her hand. Yet she's too damn scared to say anything and claim the throne, even though she feels like she would be a fair ruler. 

IDK. I'm really conflicted about this character. 

I feel like she's too... Mary Sue? 

Too good at everything, you know?


----------



## Greimour (Sep 12, 2014)

I think Cira sounds a little far-fetched but not so much a Mary Sue. Not much on the perfect front either. Might be your ideal, but not mine.

Hmm.. 

She seems to be there to fill a need of weapons and wealth but maintains her role due to the interesting relationship she develops with Ara. (My gist from your explanation).

Cira is great, but her character doesn't fit her actions in my opinion. Noblewoman sacrifices all and gains a bounty on her head to help rebels where she falls for the rebel leader who is also a female. Great when worded like that... but realistic? Not so much.

She is a noblewoman which means pride, life of luxury, teachings and a brain that works. All of those things like falling for Ara could happen regardless of the backstory... but what wouldn't happen is the whole 'she meets a need' scenario you have going on. Cira is introduced purely to provide your rebels with money and weapons. In a world of sorcery, what use is stealing a sword and gaining a recruit with a bounty on their head? 


I will do it from my point of view.

I disagree with my parents way of doing things (and the kings). I hear of a group of rebels gaining mention in the conversations of highly stationed politicians- one of whom is my father. I decide to investigate a little myself. I find them easier than I expected to and get to talking. The leader is sharp though- she figured out who I was straight away. So, I admit it and explain why I am there ... to help their cause.

I stop wasting my allowance on luxuries and use it to help the rebels instead. I buy them things they need and give my remaining money to Ara. I do this every month when I get my allowance. On top of that, I tell them information that they need. Such as plans the politicians have (thanks to listening in on my fathers conversations), what the king is planning to do about the rebels and warn them of people who have been noticed by the kings 'forces'.
I use my station as the child of a rich politician to provide information, money and when possible- other items of use. 

What I don't do is the incredibly stupid act of stealing and running away. No matter how much I love Ara and want to be with her, I am far more useful to her fulfilling my role as an insider. 

Eventually (inevitably) I would get caught or something and would run away to join the rebels properly. Perhaps Ara gets caught and I rescue her. That would be a far more likely scenario of me getting a bounty on my head. Whilst making the get away we might notice a chance to steal some stuff on the way out - or perhaps I prepared the items in advance knowing it is my last chance to take this stuff. Maybe I had been trying to work out a way to steal it all for a long time and now I finally can (due to it not mattering if I get caught anymore).

There is an infinite possible uses for Cira and a back story... but the one you have now is a little on the unbelievable side. Magic, Fairies, Monsters, Demons, Gods, Demigods, Heaven, Hell, Angels, whatever... it has to be believable and realistic. 

I could run off back stories for Cira all day ...


Bitter experiences. She was the one forced to kill the Oracle woman to  take her powers. The powers led to her seeing a future she couldn't  stand and decided to join the rebels. Thanks to a view into the future  she seen the rebel leader and knew exactly how to find them. Thus she went to them and joined their cause. Unfortunately, the Oracle powers weren't that great ... it's no surprise she'd lasted so long without people finding out. Her first vision was the first night after she'd gotten the powers. She didn't know how to activate it though and she hadn't had one since. Nor did she think one was likely. It was now easy to understand why the Oracle didn't see her death coming for her ... the power was far too unreliable.

(Infinite possibilities that is just one example)


Honestly, I like the character Cira... I just don't like a convenient character clause. The rebels need money and weapons and some rich politicians daughter just happens to come along and provide them with what they need- as result earning a stupidly high bounty on her head and revealing to the world she is a rebel. Cira didn't strike me as stupid. >.>


~Kev.

P.S. Without the full story, I can't comment on her actions in book 2. They seem out of character too but anything can happen so she could easily become that person. Point is, her beginning is bad but the rest (of her) is good. 

[EDIT]

Your main character in book one might appear to be Araceli, but seems to me your real MC is Cira. I am interested in why Cira commits suicide when she has become so incredibly evil (a clear example of why Cira is not the MC) ... the Heroine doesn't become bad. The heroine may not be the leader but they are the one to right the worlds wrongs. Your Heroine is Cira - to me, your MC is Cira.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

Thanks! I appreciate the feedback! 

She does indeed start off as just an insider, attending the meetings at night, providing them with cryptic info on the king's political structure. 

I do like the idea of her getting caught and the being *forced* to run off, rather than it being a choice. Her choosing to run off seems too passionate and illogical. Even though it'd be very cool. 

In Book 2, Ara goes by her old motto of "Only the Strong Survive" and decides to apply this to her kingdom. Cira obviously has a few kills under her belt, but is still wanted by the state, but this time, since the ruler is Ara, not Shaan, it's not just a bounty, but a the iron price. So she decides to pretty much go with all the rebels (a pretty sizable and powerful army at that point) and march on the castle from underneath, and confront Ara in a battle of sword vs scythe. It's a cool fight scene, with time travel and clones and shapeshifting and cool shit like that. And then Cira gets deep. And Ara goes to her room and thinks about what she did lol. 

Although it is implied that an empath/shapeshifter may have subtly manipulated Ara's emotional state during her final hours to severe depression and lament. The reader will never know truly if the shapeshifter hidden in Ara's closet is what drove her to kill herself, or her genuine regret... 

And I think that the man who killed Ara's mom is going to show up as a member of the royal court, and Ara is going to pretty much ignore him, showing her deviation from her original cause, and lack of caring about her mother anymore. Yet, deep inside, when she sees that he's an oracle in the same unique way her mom was, and makes the connection, and probes his mind a bit, she freezes up and dies a little on the inside. Not like she'd ever admit to it.


----------



## Greimour (Sep 12, 2014)

Time travel is dangerous and tricky (to execute, explain and pull off successfully)... but incredibly interesting when done well. World of Warcraft is attempting to do time travel with their next release too... I know that's not really something to bring up now but I like the story lines and got so wrapped up in the stories involved I started playing the game. The books are pretty cool but learning it by playing has it's own reader interest level that's totally different and I got a little addicted for a while. I have decided to buy the next installment of the game purely to play the time travel storyline. ^_^

I like shapeshifters but something about them is weird. My imagination doesn't seem to like them. I have a story involving animagi but it won't come to fruition because my imagination refuses to acknowledge people who turn into animals. I really like shapeshifters though so I want to do it. >.<

Sounds interesting anyway- your story. But very hard to deliver... I am interested with what you will end up with.

~Kev.


----------



## Bishop (Sep 12, 2014)

I suppose flaws could balance out some of the over-powered nature of her character, but there'd have to be some big ones that pull her down. Mary sue? Maybe. I really dislike the term, mostly because in a way all of my characters are Mary Sues. I want to be all of them, they lead much more interesting lives than I do. But at the same time, I understand that the term is usually reserved for the "I am the super awesome deus-ex-machina-incarnate that saves the starship Enterprise every episode" kinda thing.

I would say that she doesn't work for me. But then again, Superman doesn't work for me for the same reason. As much as my friends argue that the comics "are really deep" it bugs the hell out of me that he has only one weakness. I mean seriously, one of two things will always happen: Krypotonite, or he'll lose his powers because of some convoluted, made up, often contradictory reason. So what you have with this character might be similar, where there's nothing that can stop her and in order for her to encounter conflict that the reader would find compelling, you'd have to really pull things out of the air or break your own world's rules in order to bring her down to a 'mortal' level.


----------



## T.S.Bowman (Sep 12, 2014)

One of the first things I thought when I read the OP was that the character was interesting, but that she really wouldn't work too well because of the "gaining other people's powers by killing them" thing.

As Bishop said, all you are doing with that is setting up an "invincible" character. You are making that character much too powerful to be easily handled by the writer. 

I agree with Kev that Cira could be a very interesting character, but you will have a very difficult time with her if you have her kill and gain the powers that you mention. Why not have her be against the killing of others after having been forced to kill the Oracle? That could be one of her motivations for helping the rebels.


----------



## Gamer_2k4 (Sep 12, 2014)

Dawson said:


> I feel like she's too... Mary Sue?
> 
> Too good at everything, you know?



I'm concerned this may be a problem with the story as a whole, rather than just this one character.  With powers as easy to accumulate as they are (yeah, yeah, killing may not be "easy," but it's a story; if someone wants to kill someone, they will), I foresee a lot of situations that will leave the readers thinking, "Well why didn't <character> just do this?"  In other words, unless you're very careful, all of the plot points are going to come off as very contrived, because so many characters will have so many options available to them.


----------



## Bishop (Sep 12, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> ... I foresee a lot of situations that will leave the readers thinking, "Well why didn't <character> just do this?"  In other words, unless you're very careful, all of the plot points are going to come off as very contrived, because so many characters will have so many options available to them.



Agreed; with that type of array of ability being accessible like that, you'll get a lot of these moments. I notice these kind of moments in a lot of the ridiculous super hero movies that are coming out these days too, so many moments of "Why didn't he just use his heat vision to melt the missile?" or some such.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

The thing is, after she sees Ara start killing people left and right for powers, she vows to never do the same. 

She's truly Neutral/Chaotic Good. As opposed to Ara who is textbook Chaotic Neutral to Chaotic Evil. 

Circa has a sense of conscience. Ara doesn't. She'd never kill an innocent person for her powers.


----------



## Bishop (Sep 12, 2014)

Dawson said:


> The thing is, after she sees Ara start killing people left and right for powers, she vows to never do the same.
> 
> She's truly Neutral/Chaotic Good. As opposed to Ara who is textbook Chaotic Neutral to Chaotic Evil.
> 
> Circa has a sense of conscience. Ara doesn't. She'd never kill an innocent person for her powers.



Even with that stipulation, you mentioned she would:

Be a fencer.
Have fire abilities.
Teleportation abilities.
Super speed.
The ability to copy herself.

I can think of almost no situations that can't be easily resolved by one/two of those.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

Oh and it's Ara that kills herself, not Cira.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

Those are the powers she gets through her battle kills. 

She starts out with just fencing skill and fire power. 

And mind you, the rebels are generally, at least in book one, about 8 people, one powerless, who go up against whole armies. They need to be strong.


----------



## Bishop (Sep 12, 2014)

Well, obviously it's your tale  Go with what works. I would just have those sorts of doubts in my head were it mine.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

It's just- you still think she'd be too strong? I really want your input. 

I mean, all of my characters are pretty powerful, except my powerless executioners, who add a lot of emotion to the story about the messed-upness of the inner workings of the regime. And they're almost like berserkers in battle, too...


----------



## Bishop (Sep 12, 2014)

Dawson said:


> It's just- you still think she'd be too strong? I really want your input.
> 
> I mean, all of my characters are pretty powerful, except my powerless executioners, who add a lot of emotion to the story about the messed-upness of the inner workings of the regime. And they're almost like berserkers in battle, too...



I would say yes--at least a little. But there's a few things to remember about my perspective on this:

1) I write science fiction, nothing dealing with magic. The norm of that type of genre might be more accommodating for the added abilities. But, I remember reading Harry Potter and thinking a couple of times, "Don't they have a spell that..." fixes some thing or another. It didn't diminish the value of the work, but for a split second it did shake my suspension of disbelief.

2) I adore flawed characters. I like underdogs, especially. In my novel _Observer_ the main character makes... a multitude of mistakes. His only real use is as a soldier, and definitely not as a tactician or anything of the sort and much of his success comes from his training and a lot of luck. His instincts are often wrong, his decisions foolish. I can, in fact, think of at least one fatal or near fatal mistake committed by all of my MCs in each of my novels. That's part of what makes me compelled by them, I love that sort of problem. Readers often connect with characters who make mistakes and find themselves trapped by inability--because we as humans are often making mistakes and being trapped by our inability.


----------



## Kyle R (Sep 12, 2014)

I'd make it so that when someone kills another, they gain their power, but it overrides whatever previous power they had.

In other words, a person can only have one power at a time.

This would eliminate the concern of your character being overpowered. 

It would also make for some interesting internal conflict when a character has to decide if they're willing to give up their current power in exchange for a new one—knowing that they can never get the previous power back.

One such situation could arise when a person with an undesirable power (uncontrollable vomiting when exciting, for example) attacks another character, and the other character, in self defense, tries to avoid killing the first character at the risk of inheriting their "barf power." :grief:

Some fun things that can be done with it.

Just a suggestion. Sounds like a cool series! :encouragement:


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

So do you think that making Cira the one who kills off Ara's mom and making her tragically fall in love with Ara to kind of console her and compensate for that give her enough of a backstory?


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

The story could start out with, instead of Ara watching her mom die, Cira going to the temple of the Goddess of Love (the patron for her nation) for guidance. She is compelled to kill this woman by the Goddess, being threatened with never finding love if she does not commit the act. 

So she kills Ara's mom. 

And when she sees Ara, she notices the stark resemblance in the features and knows why the Goddess had her kill that woman. It was all for destiny. 

And the whole "fight your fate/fated love" thing can be something I explore!


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

Before the murder, Cira has never felt love. Not even romantic, or familial, or platonic. She is told by the Goddess that if she kills this woman, she will be a "complete human being" and no longer have to hide behind a mask. No longer have to feel like a human leech regarding her parents, whom she never loved, despite pampering her like crazy. She will have romance. She will have friends. And she will no longer be a disgrace not only to humanity, as she feels, but to her nation, which is based around the concept of love and romance, and even lust to a certain degree.


----------



## Bishop (Sep 12, 2014)

Dawson said:


> So do you think that making Cira the one who kills off Ara's mom and making her tragically fall in love with Ara to kind of console her and compensate for that give her enough of a backstory?



While definitely conflicting and somewhat tragic, this isn't a flaw--it's a mistake. Flaws are what lead to the mistakes.



Dawson said:


> Before the murder, Cira has never felt love. Not even romantic, or familial, or platonic. She is told by the Goddess that if she kills this woman, she will be a "complete human being" and no longer have to hide behind a mask. No longer have to feel like a human leech regarding her parents, whom she never loved, despite pampering her like crazy. She will have romance. She will have friends. And she will no longer be a disgrace not only to humanity, as she feels, but to her nation, which is based around the concept of love and romance, and even lust to a certain degree.



These are motivations, which have their importance as well. I'd be wary to say she never had ANY love at all; usually even in the most tragic of situations, characters have one connection. Like a lonely orphan boy who befriends a stray dog--it gives him a weakness as well, and if the dog gets hurt it could be crippling to him. Things like that. Readers would have a hard time connecting with a hero who has had no love ever ever ever. Even Snake Plissken got a kiss from "*The Girl in Chock Full 'O Nuts*".

The most famous flaw I can think of as an example is Romeo of... well, him and Juliet. Romeo's impulsive, youthful decision making is his ultimate downfall. He never takes a moment to think anything through, works entirely off instinct. This leads to the mistake of killing himself despite his Juliet not actually being dead. Seriously, had he just... waited a day or two, everything would have been fine. But he's flawed, fatally so, into the dumb teenage emotional push that befalls many of that age group.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

I think Cira's greatest flaw, honestly, is that she falls so deeply in love with Ara, even when she goes ax-crazy, and doesn't want to fight her. 

She may seem like a dull character in book 1 (kinda how I felt about Sansa Stark in GoT in the first few seasons) but later on, she really feels guilt about losing her one true love, and starts to go kinda mad herself, and maybe even starts hallucinating visions of Ara, as a manifestation of some sort of psychotic depression? (This would be around Book 3, after Ara's death.) 

In Book 2, while she's trying to rebel against the regime, she's trying to get them to *absolutely not hurt Ara*. Like, she's the mama bear when it comes to her. She's a mush-muffin. Even if killing Ara is the only way to stop this, she won't let it happen.

And the thing is, that she does feel love after committing the crime (which occurs at the very beginning of the book)- so intensely, that it's the direct compliment to Ara's gift of "Wisdom beyond her years." Cira is granted, directly by the Goddess, the power of "Love beyond all man's comprehension." Because her love is illogical and rash. It's not eros. It's mania.


----------



## Bishop (Sep 12, 2014)

Dawson said:


> Because her love is illogical and rash. It's not eros. It's mania.



That can be a flaw, no doubt. I suppose, though, I'd have to see the character walking and talking and how it affects her to say whether I think it works within the context. It's tricky, especially given the powerful nature of the abilities within the book.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

Bishop said:


> That can be a flaw, no doubt. I suppose, though, I'd have to see the character walking and talking and how it affects her to say whether I think it works within the context. It's tricky, especially given the powerful nature of the abilities within the book.



P much, one character, Aika, conspires to kill Ara, after Ara kills Aika's partner Sam for their time-travel powers. (ALL THE KILLING, YAY!) 

Cira finds out, and threatens Aika, and Aika says that she'd rather die than stay part of Ara's team. So Cira threatens to burn Aika alive with a sword at her neck for this conspiracy, but Aika gets away, using her sound manipulation powers to incapacitate Cira and temporarily deafen her, and then stab her with her daggers a few times non-fatally before she steals off into the night. 

In book two, Aika and Cira have to team up again, and there's a LOT of tension between the two of them. Because obvious. But Aika wants Ara dead, and Cira is dead-set against reforming Ara with *the power of love* and trying to get her to change. 

Of course, Cira also feels immense guilt for the eugenic genocide type thing going on, because Ara is only absolutely ax-crazy now because she realized that her ex-girlfriend confessed that she's the one who killed her mother, and has never felt so betrayed in her life. So Ara starts randomly torturing people (she pulls a Joffrey pretty much) and starts ordering that random members of her court be executed because she thinks they're conspiring against her and her regime. 

Cira hears of this, and becomes emotionally unstable herself. She's alone. She's single. She loves Ara. But she hates what she's become. But she doesn't care. It's an irrational, unconditional love. 

Cira's story arc is going to be really dull in Book 1, but in the next few books, it'll be really fun. Hence why I'm going to introduce her to the rebels last in Book 1, since the other rebels are much more interesting. Hell, I may even give Ara her first kill by the time Cira comes along... Haha.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

(Thank you guys for really helping me flesh out this generally absolutely dull character. I love all of my characters... except freakin Cira. Except now I really am starting to like her, with the whole "SHE KILLED THE MOTHER, OH SHEAT!" thing. Like, I think watching *her* psychological downfall, compared to Ara's, is going to be interesting, especially if she lands her ass on the throne, and takes claim to it, if she uses the whole "I talked her into suicide, which is deplorable, so I kinda do deserve the throne..." thing. 

Which I'm not so sure I'll do... 

I'll see what the other characters say to her about taking on the throne! Lol.


----------



## Jeko (Sep 12, 2014)

I can't tell if a character is stereotypical or not from a biography; most characters feel somewhat contrived if you write about them with a list of attributes. The sense of 'character' and 'humanity' and 'originality' comes from the way you write about them. 

As for the system you've invented, it sounds good in theory but not so good in practice. Kyle R's alternative sounds better; that way, you'll be searching for someone with greater power than your own - perhaps there are specific kinds of flame/teleport/illusion power that people have, and some are better than others. But searching for someone more powerful than you would mean a harder fight. And then there's the whole moral conundrum thrown in, which you could play on by having the benefit of greater power juxtaposed by some kind of 'bad' thing/feeling that comes with it and becomes more and more problematic the more you kill people for their powers, or something. There are lots of ways you can play around with the morality issue.

Just make sure you make it hard for your characters to get what they want. Else, your readers will close the book thinking that it doesn't matter whether they read on or not, because the invincible lady has too many powers to be stopped.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 12, 2014)

Ok, thanks, I'll think about that system! 

It's just that, I like the idea of accumulated power, and the idea that power becomes increasingly corrupting, and that each time you kill a person, you get a scar of sorts on your psyche, manifested in this case by the power. 

In the chapter that I posted in the Fiction Forum (Fantasy Subforum), it talks more about why people would like to collect powers. It's not as much about the powers to them. After all, many powers are mundane, like animagus powers, or turning one object into another, or very basic elemental manipulation. Powers like Cira's are rare. Hence why her parents treat her so well- they legitimately fear her potential (and are powerless themselves, actually.) 

Or maybe I can put a limit on how many powers a person can have? Like, there are 5 Goddesses, so maybe each Goddess can grant a person a power, and after that, their soul cannot hold any more power or something? So you have to be strategic with your powers? Even though 5 is a lot. Maybe I can do a 3 Forces of Somethingorother that allow for the powers to be held within the soul. And that's what allows for the three powers max. And after that, you lose the first power you gained, the one you were born with. 

Hence why after killing the king, Ara loses her Infinite Wisdom!


----------



## Greimour (Sep 12, 2014)

Can't stay but was reading a few comments and I notice a few people stressing over "stealing powers" bit...

I would like to point out that it has been done before (in a way) by way of 'Highlander'. Same kind of deal. 

Invincible characters aren't rare either. Nor are characters manipulating others or stealing powers. There was Silas in Heroes that did exactly the same thing (killed to steal powers) and then Peter Petrelli who didnt need to kill to also steal for powers. Noah Bennet had no powers but successfully took down the overpowered bad guys. 

Even without stealing powers, invincible characters can work:

Galbatorix in Eragon had a similar deal going on that made him close to invincible... Taking control of others and using their magic as his own.

Voldermort is another that was invincible in Harry Potter...

Hulk is as invincible as Superman, maybe more so... even when banner shot himself in the mouth he just spat the bullet back out as the Hulk. >.<


The only problem I'd have with this story is the time travel. There is probably 3 instance ever that I have liked time travel. "The Time Machine", "Doctor Who" and "Back to the Future" ... but if done right, it can just be added to the list.


Stealing powers by killing? Doesn't bother me at all. Highlander done exactly the same thing and so did Silas in Heroes. I enjoyed both.


~Kev.


----------



## altoid967 (Sep 13, 2014)

Another way to balance out your power-theft system would be to have weaknesses be inheritable as well. It might round out any potentially over-powered characters.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 14, 2014)

I decided that you only gain the last three powers another person has. 

And that you only can have 5 powers at a time. 

And that when you gain powers, you lose the same amount of powers, starting with the oldest powers you have. 

And since her fire powers are so strong, she doesn't want to gain too many powers to lose them. 

Also, it can be a thing that the more powers you get, the more diluted your powers get, because you just can't manage them all as easily?


----------



## Dawson (Sep 14, 2014)

The time travel thing is literally undone as soon as Ara kills the king and loses her powers of healing, wisdom, and time travel. So she only has time travel for a few chapters. Which she does use to save Marti, but it's too late. She can't figure out a timeline where she lives.


----------



## Greimour (Sep 14, 2014)

Dawson said:


> I decided that you only gain the last three powers another person has.
> 
> And that you only can have 5 powers at a time.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a bad compromise to me. Altoid had a good point with the weaknesses.

What you need is a good reason not to steal powers. 

Example: All powered people have 1 power originally. As soon as they display a second power it is absolute proof they have killed for a power which is illegal. They'd be arrested instantly.



I could come up with more but it's your job to do the reasons not to. Perhaps it takes too long, there is a ritual involved that not many people know and simply researching it is illegal...


----------



## Nemesis (Sep 14, 2014)

To be honest she doesn't sound balenced, this woman had literally EVERYTHING going for her. She's wealthy, intelligent, beautiful, powerful to the point of being invincible, a skilled fighter, compassionate and good, _and _the main characters love interest; put it all together and it results in a very boring (sounding) character.

I wouldn't consider "falling in love with the MC" a weakness or a flaw, not unless she falls desperately in love with every good looking, charasmatic man/woman she comes across and/or can't see the flaws in these people, leading her to blind to their horrid actions.

So Mary-Sueish? Yes, I would say so.

Additionally it sounds like you're overcomplicating it with the limit to five powers or collect every power of every person they kill, but that's just my opinion (as is all of it of course)

When you start making godlike characters that are supposed to function like real people you run into problems, it can easily become unbelievable even for a fantasy setting.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 14, 2014)

Noxicity said:


> To be honest she doesn't sound balenced, this woman had literally EVERYTHING going for her. She's wealthy, intelligent, beautiful, powerful to the point of being invincible, a skilled fighter, compassionate and good, _and _the main characters love interest; put it all together and it results in a very boring (sounding) character.
> 
> I wouldn't consider "falling in love with the MC" a weakness or a flaw, *not unless she falls desperately in love with every good looking, charasmatic man/woman she comes across and/or can't see the flaws in these people, leading her to blind to their horrid actions.*
> 
> ...



The thing is, her relationship with the MC turns out to be abusive, one-sided to some degree (Ara loves her, but is asexual, so in bed, Ara is disinterested and actually somewhat repulsed), and she ends up ignoring and fighting for Ara when Ara starts to do really messed up things. 

And, when Cira (really dim-wittedly) tells her the truth about having killed her mother, expecting understanding and forgiveness and having Ara view it as a moment of intense trust, Ara flips her shit and turns evil due to feeling intense betrayal. 

And then Cira feels guilty for making Ara what she is. She places all of the guilt on herself. That's the kind of character she is. Increeeeeeedibly self-defeating when it comes to that kind of thing. 

And then, she ends up talking Ara into killing herself, at the end of book 2, and she can't live with herself, so she makes a deal with the Goddess of Love that if she kills ten people, she will never love again, and be free from the feelings of guilt and the love that ties her to her old abusive relationship. 

Like, when she finds out that it's Ara whose mom she killed, and how angry Ara is about the murder, she feels so much guilt that she's essentially "guilted" into loving her. She feels the need to comfort the hell out of poor little semi-orphan Ara because of what she did, to pay for her crime. 

Does that make her seem better?


----------



## Dawson (Sep 14, 2014)

I also don't want to do the whole "whore/madonna" thing, with my MC being asexual, and Cira being a "slut" and falling for literally everyone. 

She's a victim to love, not lust. But it's not "eros," it's "mania."


----------



## Jeko (Sep 14, 2014)

> I decided that you only gain the last three powers another person has.
> 
> And that you only can have 5 powers at a time.
> 
> ...



Sounds convoluted and boring.

Think about how it works in Bioshock; you can 'harvest' (kill) a Little Sister for Adam, the precious fuel you need to level up, or rescue her (not kill) for less Adam but a better conscience. Granted, the game never made me feel guilty, but a system like that has the potential to be a moral millstone for your characters. The choice needs to be more than 'will this make me more powerful?', because that makes all the characters that follow the system out to be greedy assholes; i.e. not likeable, unless there's more complexity behind their compliance with the system. And why would our MC partner with a person who follows the system that killed her mother?

There needs to be an alternative; something like a rebellious back-door that means that the 'good' guys aren't doing the same evil as the 'bad' guys. Though moral grey-areas can work very well between factions of morality, you don't have one. The stealing powers system just looks evil, especially since it killed our MC's mother. 

If I were writing this, I'd make only a few people able to accumulate more than one power, with a cost/curse that makes life harder for them despite their increased power and potential. Everyone else changes power when they absorb one, but can choose not to absorb and keep their current power. Having a power can be seen a being given a special 'path' by a god/goddess. So you have those who stay true to their 'path', and those who usurp other people from their 'paths', and those who are kinds of abominable 'avatars' that are able to pursue multiple 'paths', perhaps so they could become gods themselves or something. That seems a lot more simple to me. Then you could have good guys in the usurper camp, and bad guys in the 'stay on the path' camp, mixing up the expectations of morality, and at least one good and one bad avatar, one of which our be our potentially overpowered character.


----------



## Dawson (Sep 14, 2014)

Cadence said:


> Sounds convoluted and boring.
> 
> Think about how it works in Bioshock; you can 'harvest' (kill) a Little Sister for Adam, the precious fuel you need to level up, or rescue her (not kill) for less Adam but a better conscience. Granted, the game never made me feel guilty, but a system like that has the potential to be a moral millstone for your characters. The choice needs to be more than 'will this make me more powerful?', because that makes all the characters that follow the system out to be greedy assholes; i.e. not likeable, unless there's more complexity behind their compliance with the system. And why would our MC partner with a person who follows the system that killed her mother?
> 
> ...



The thing is, I need my protag team to be ridiculously strong because they're just 7 people, going up against whole armies. So each of them having a few powers isn't the worst thing. Especially since one of them is doomed to being powerless due to demonic influences. 

But they're going to, like, want to not kill people for their powers because that's the whole cause they're fighting against. 

BUT. What the MC starts doing is killing off her comrades for their powers, because she has infinite wisdom, and she can supposedly use the powers better than them because of this. So she starts using the "power-killing" system for the greater good, she claims. She also starts to be able to strategically kill off the king's troops for their powers, telling her rebels to go after particular soldiers first for their powers, to power up the team. Therefore, it's being used to perpetuate the same system it's fighting. Which the rest of the rebels are generally not all that ok with- they just want to fight off the king's armies, dammit! 

And some powers can be very mundane, or at least seemingly so, like turning rocks to fruit. 

Also, when you gain a new power, you don't always know what it is. You don't know how to use it. So when, say, Ara kills the king, she gains three of his powers. She has no clue what they are or how to use them. So she's left, essentially, with the (pretty useless) ability to turn rocks into fruit, to be able to use her fingers as knives (which is actually p cool) and then the three mystery powers that she gains from the king, that she slowly discovers over the course of Book 2 (which I honestly haven't decided on yet, because I want them to be actually kinda mediocre, since the King has infinite powers due to having made deals with the gods of the underworld, so he can kill as much as he wants and not have to worry about losing his best powers...) So you have all these new powers, and half the time, if you just rush into battle and start hacking people up or something, you lose all your powers and have no clue what you have in your deck. 

Does that sound more balanced? 

(And the MC doesn't know that Cira killed her mother. Until the end of Book 1. And then Ara goes totally ax-crazy because trust issues.)


----------



## Jeko (Sep 14, 2014)

> I need my protag team to be ridiculously strong because they're just 7 people, going up against whole armies



But if we think they'll stand a chance, that makes the plot less interesting. A lot of films do what you do, except the characters aren't supercharged with powers; they simply kick ass, so we feel like they shouldn't win but ultimately hope they will with more than blind faith. 

Don't let your characters play all the cards in thier hand; if they are really strong, hide that strength until the moment when we think they'll lose. Even a story as basic as _Bleach_ uses this to its constant advantage.

Also, if you rely on the natural strength of your characters, they'll be less interesting in fights. Make them have to stretch every ability they have to its limit and beyond.

The system still sounds dull and confusing. Having powers so constantly interchangeable for everyone who follows the system makes their abilities less personal, and their strength inconstant, as you demonstrated. It seems like the system will be constantly uninterestingly imbalanced for the whole narrative.


----------

