# Female



## TuesdayEve (Oct 7, 2017)

The girl tries to hide it
The woman owns it

The girl gets impatient
The woman can wait

The girl is insecure
The woman is certain

The girl is confused
The woman knows

The girl wants to be heard
The woman listens

The girl runs
The woman stands firm


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## Darkkin (Oct 9, 2017)

TuesdayEve said:


> The girl tries to hide it   Hide what?  Own what?  And why is there a reason to hide anything?  This is where context comes into play.  And it should be pointed out that women keep just as many secrets, if not more than any child can...Especially if the age of a child is taken into account.  The younger the child, the more innocently honest they are.  Secrets and concealment are behaviors that are learned, not inherent.  And if one considers that emotions are the unspecified what, the observation veers even more.  Many youngsters wear their emotions on their sleeves, the drama bringing more attention and potential fulfillment than concealment.   There is danger in blanket statements like this.  Human nature is faceted, and those facets are reflected in the context.  Consider possible delineations of what it is.
> The woman owns it
> 
> The girl gets impatient  How is it only a girl is impatient?  It is not a trait unique to younger females.  Take human nature into account in basic situations, such as simply waiting in line.  Look at the people, note their actions.  Whose fingers are drumming?  Who is glancing at their phone?  Who is happy simply browsing?  Basic observations are enough to show the brittleness of this statement.  Also, impatient for what?  And why can a woman wait?  Consider too that when the line reads: The woman can wait...Without context it comes across as almost dismissive.  She can wait...There is no identity here, not touch of what people are.  Emotive, flawed.  Consider showing and avoid blanket statements.
> ...




This reads a bit more like a litany than a fleshed out poem.  Do this and one is a girl, do this one is a woman...A very promising idea.  But there is no emotion, no context.  More of an outline that has yet to be fleshed out.  When looked at from a linear standpoint things like the sheer magnitude of the human condition is hauntingly absent.  As a reader, one wants to will truth into the words, but there isn't any foundation supporting the blanket statements.

Without the human elements like emotion, voice, and face...Things like this can come across as sterile, with a paucity of empathy.  And it is with empathy that the true power of a poem truly rests.  The reader needs to care and that doesn't happen with this piece.  This is a list, something an uncaring parent might say to a child, a child who angered them for simply being a foolish, shy child.  Without context the piece can slide either way...

The potential for duality and dichotomy of context could be very intriguing.  One side written using empathy, an illustrated journey from girl to woman and how traits develop, but the faults aren't ever completely lost...And the flipside of what happens without emotion, empathy.  Unrealistic expectation and underestimations.  The journey into a perfect woman.  Which of the two would be stronger, the perfect or the flawed?  Would love to see how this piece develops.

e.g.

A girl, nine summers gone,
knees bloody, gravel torn,
sees him watching, a boy,
a brother, five summers on,
those days, now so worn--
her smiles shone in tears.


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## TuesdayEve (Oct 10, 2017)

Thank you Darkkin, you're right it does sound like list, I never noticed it like that..and perhaps I was a bit vague ... I was going for simplicity....you give a clear insight to each, the girl and the woman, separatly and I agree intellectually with pretty much all that you said.... woman do get impatient and children do listen....but to me, the girl and the woman are one...emotionally there is a divide in which age is irrelevant...you were right it has to do with character and little to do with age..... it is also a comparison and journey each of us travel throughout our life... it's often a challenge some days to see how one will react to the events of the day..... run or stand firm..listen or need to be heard.... it's true women need to be heard but how it's accomplished may be different than the girl....emotional development and self awarness was the theme... I guess I missed... I do  appriciate your time and words Darkkin...and will not call this a poem ...thx again


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## Darkkin (Oct 10, 2017)

It has the potential for a great poem, it just needs flesh and balance.  And keep in mind that readers don't have insight into the author's mind.  Context, provides the reader with a frame of reference as the the intention and tone of the piece.  Given that up to 90% of communication is nonverbal, and therefor in complete abeyance in a written form context becomes much more critical.  Generic nouns like woman and girl can apply to roughly half the world's population.  It is the voice, the traces of the author's style that give a piece its identity.

Maybe consider showing the hints of the girl peaking from behind the woman's mask.

e.g.

The line and time suspends,
weight shifts, toes cramped--
too tight shoes then,
now, those heels bad idea...
Porcelain mask, restless feet.

Little things, finite moments that mean something.  Flashes of personality.  Consider when and how instances like those above occured.  The voice of the piece rests in those moments.

- D.


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## SilverMoon (Oct 11, 2017)

Hi, Tuesday, I see your poem a bit differently. I don’t see it solely as a list because it peaked my imagination, all the possibilities which could follow from the different plights of girls and women.

I do agree you could add some clay for sculpting. Jazz it up some. 

Simply, a suggestion. Here, I went "fun". I love going deep, however, at this time in the morning, I'm afraid I will hurt my brain.

You've got talent so work your own magic. Here I employed Slant Rhyming (I’m just awful when it comes to the ABAB rhyme etc. I sound like Dr. Seuss on drugs. And I mean like he's ready to overdose!).


It would be very interesting to read a re-write, if you wish, with your theme in mind "emotional development and self awareness"

Here you go. Just template, in keeping with your poem's format.


The girl _tries_ to _hide_ _her_ _kinde_rgarten smile
while the _boy_ in _corduroy_ tries to _sneak _a 
_kiss_ on her _cheek _but _missed_

The woman owns her suggestive grin  
while the man drinking gin thinks of a 
festive night without a clue she’ll not bite.


Keep to the 3 lines. I’ve noticed you rhyme very well, all in all.  If you’d like, try and go for the Slant Rhyme  (or Internal Rhyme). Can be lots of fun and when even employed in very serious works. But certainly not necessary, here.

The girl gets impatient
The woman can wait 
L3 .....

The girl is insecure
The woman is certain

The girl is confused
The woman knows

The girl wants to be heard
The woman listens

The girl runs
The woman stands firm


Best, Laurie


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## jenthepen (Oct 11, 2017)

I really like the way SilverMoon has critiqued your poem, Tuesday. She has found a way for you to keep the message of your poem intact while illustrating the differences that you have pointed up. If you could work through all your stanzas using the method that Silver has suggested, I think your poem will shine and you will have retained your original insight into the divide between a girl and a woman that was the main idea driving your poem, I think.


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## Elvenswordsman (Oct 11, 2017)

Is this written from a desire to be more like the woman, or less like the girl?

Or was it written in recognition of youth?

Thanks for sharing, appreciate the duality.


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## TuesdayEve (Oct 11, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your observations, questions and suggestions...I think you're right Jen, I will take SilverMoon's advice and Darkkins' idea of flesh and balance....try to achieve a rewrite with more clarity reaching more people ....not sure yet what form...Elven, it was written as a comparison,  journey, the distance between the girl and the woman although they are one...as females we go through the same things but to what degree and awareness..... that will always differ from person to person ....so a child can be more mature and have common sense where the mother has none...age is irrelevant.... and are the child and mother aware of this reversal of roles and how do they react to that...
...yea, I admit it needs a little more meat...
thx again everyone


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 11, 2017)

My take on Darkin's comment is that sometimes less is more, not saying what the 'it' is that the girl tries to hide allows the reader to place their own idea, or ideas, there, or even wonder what it is. Saying it is her femininity, or her intelligence, or whatever, restricts things from then on.

Sometimes it is good to try a re-write, sometimes it doesn'twork and it is better to move on and write the next thing. I often find putting stuff on a back burner for a while before I decide what to do is useful. Just a thought.


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## Pete_C (Oct 13, 2017)

To me, this read like a list of messages that should be made in a stanza. Try showing us these points rather than just telling us. The brevity of each statement will create people who agree and just as many who disagree. It's a black/white thing, whereas a poem should guide, persuade, illuminate and empower. 

Maybe if each statement was represented in an act or event it would allow the reader to come to their own conclusions.


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## TuesdayEve (Oct 20, 2017)

Thanks Olly and Pete for your time and good advice... I like the original piece and will keep it as is... but I have just completed another version... more flesh... examples.. looking forward to your opinions thx again everyone


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 21, 2017)

I'll be interested to see the new version, Silver moon's suggestions are interesting, and Pete's about providing examples goes the same sort of direction. Simple statements can usually be interpreted different ways to suit individual experiences, that's why those 'desiderata' sheets are so often phrased that way "Give me the sight to see my errors, the strength to correct them...etc.", they never define 'error' or how it is to be 'corrected'. I think the challenge will be to  make it pertinant without making it *too* particular.


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