# Courier - Courier New?



## Signet

I've been away from screenwriting for awhile and decided to give it another go but things have changed quite a bit since the early nineties when I put my writing away.

One of my first questions is about fonts.  I'll admit right now that I learned to write screenplays pre-personal computers and FD or MM, although I vaguely remember people talking about Scriptor by the time I got out of film school.  All of my screenplays were writen on various types of typewriters, both manuel and electric, and one electronic Smith Corona.  At the time I used whatever font was available.  Another admission - I have about a dozen screenplays written with Times New Roman.  I just never learned what was industry standard.

My question about Courier is this:  What is the difference between Courier and Courier New, as found on Microsoft Word.  I have purchased copies of actual Hollywood movie screenplays but those fonts look different than the Courier New on Word.  Courier New looks thin compare to examples of Courier I've seen on the web and on screenplays.

I have a ton of questions relating to Screenwriting software but I'll leave them for another thread.


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## Inkpot

12pt Courier New and Courier Final Draft won't change anything with regard to page length (i.e. scheduling/production budgets).

Courier New is thinner than Courier. If you've purchased scripts that were printed on a laser vs an ink jet then you will see a slight difference. 

Don't obsess over it. Write a great script. Submit it in 12pt Courier, Courier New or Courier Final Draft and you're good to go. Because you'll be using software this time around, if a prod-co or exec wants you to change the font it takes but a second to change.


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## Signet

Thanks for the help Inkpot. A lot has changed on writing spec scripts over the last fifteen years. Last year I came across an article on The Writer's Store web-site that discussed the more streamlined screenplay that is the current style.  I tried to paste the link for reference but I wasn't able to because I haven't made enough posts.[-X

I like writing screenplays with my Word 2002 and if screenplays are now suppose to be more streamlined then all the better.  I always hated typing Cont., (continued)...  I just recently downloaded Celtx and am trying to get use to it.  I'll just use these two until I get around to buying Final Draft.

All this screenwriting software talk has got me to thinking about how many of Hollywood's greatest screenplays were written with a 1940's Smith Corona or Royal typewriter or an IBM Selectric.


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## Inkpot

_"All this screenwriting software talk has got me to thinking about how many of Hollywood's greatest screenplays were written with a 1940's Smith Corona or Royal typewriter or an IBM Selectric."_

LOL!   Screenwriting software really does make it easier.  It does all the work, you just bring the creativity.  Just remember that anyone serious about your script won't fret over inconsequential stuff like the various types of Courier.


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## Mklangelo

The reason Courier font is used is because no matter what the letters are, the width of them does not change.  It is consistent and easy to read.  Easy on the eye.  This is a throwback to each page taking one minute of film.   Even when you mention numbers in your action lines or dialog, you should write them as words.


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## Linton Robinson

> 12pt Courier New and Courier Final Draft won't change anything with regard to page length



Oh yeah it does.   Using Courier Final Draft instead of the standard fonts can gain you 5-6 pages of manuscript.   So you can "cheat" in that much extra.

All that "budgeting and scheduling" stuff doesn't matter to a screenwriter.   Courier FD definitely, absolutely does make a difference in the length of your script and there is no point denying or arguing it because anybody who installs the font and changes to it will see the difference.


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## Inkpot

*LOUD and wrong*




lin said:


> Oh yeah it does. Using Courier Final Draft instead of the standard fonts can gain you 5-6 pages of manuscript. So you can "cheat" in that much extra.





lin said:


> All that "budgeting and scheduling" stuff doesn't matter to a screenwriter. Courier FD definitely, absolutely does make a difference in the length of your script and there is no point denying or arguing it because anybody who installs the font and changes to it will see the difference.




Little ego being thrown around above. I've seen time and again in forums where Big Rooster (large post count) creates a virtual world where they're the alpha dog according to post count, and definitely somebody to be taken seriously. If it works for you, keep it up, but when you don't know something just... :-$  Or at least take the time to figure it out before you waste bandwidth with the silly stuff above.

Try it. I just wasted a few minutes of my time pulling up FD and a 112 page script written in Courier Final Draft.  I changed it to Courier New. Guess what. Page count still 112.  It doesn't matter and it certainly does not gain you 5 -6 pages. Your argument contains words like "definitely" "absolutely" "no point denying...". OMG that's like being loud...and wrong. And it may be the silliest thing I read all day. I'll include it in an email blast and see what folks come back with.  Stay tuned.  

Final Draft has cheat features built in by crunching or expanding the width between lines.  The WGA commissioned them to take it out about nine years ago but they were denied.  

Budgeting and scheduling use to not be a factor for screenwriters, but then along came software.  At least one prod co comes to mind that made the writer WISH they had thought about "budgeting and scheduling" before cheating 122 pgs down to 115.  The writer made the finalist in their competition (a hunt for a low-budget, romantic comedy 115-page maximum!).  In the final stages of judging the true page count was discovered and she was disqualified. The prod co's budget was the reason for the page limit.  So budgeting and scheduling should matter...to the extent outlined above.  Stick with a courier font and don't cheat the width between lines or page length. Simple.


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## Linton Robinson

Gosh, it's great to see somebody launch off into an attempt at personal attack because somebody disagrees with them.

But know what, Mr. Obviously Very Concerned With AlphaDogism,  you're the only person who comes to that conclusion.   I've emailed the FD Courier font to a half dozen screenwriters who wanted to use it in non FD (i.e. more human and workable) programs, as I do.   The reason is, they know it reduces the page count.

But I wasn't suggesting that YOU perform this experiment (interesting that you hadn't done so before posting your opinion that it has no effect, by the way)  but for anybody reading this who might question two different opinions.

"Two different opinions" isn't something that sits very well with you, is it?   
Any ego around here, you brung it.

The FD font reduces page count.   Don't worry your pretty heads about prodco budgets or you end up stepping off a slippery slope of weird non-writing shit people keep telling you about to show that they're more inside than you are.

Just write the script.


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## Linton Robinson

By the way, if having a lot of posts makes one The Big Rooster (and since you seem to notice and care about such things)   does having 9 posts make you The Small Cock?


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## Mklangelo

Well, Inkpot, you should see me go off and I've only got 142 posts.  Lin tells you what he thinks without any varnish on it.


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## Inkpot

The Small Cock? And you posted again to include it?(!!!) Oh God please don't reduce the conversation to penus puns. You're better than that. Right?

I have not 5,337 opinions (and counting) to write about anything. At some point it's no longer BS it's diarrhea, and would put such effort toward my own writing if I were you. But hey, this is your world... this... forum... with the green chicklets you've gathered under your moniker. So possesive-like a squirl gathering nuts for the winter. (or in your mind a 5-Star General LOL)  My adivice is to get out more, have some fun, don't take yourself so seriously, especially over Courier font, drop in every once in awhile and sprinkle your brain droppings, not EVERYDAY 10 X, less is more, he who has the highest post count does not win...anything! ROFLMAO!

BTW your post about Courier is probably on the desktops of 1,500 industry folks by now via mass email that has been forwarded again and again, bringing a good laugh to folks as far away as Canada. See something good did come out of this! Yay! Seriously, they're really getting a kick out of it!  Your ignorance has brought joy to folks you don't even know and it only took me about five seconds to copy and paste. Keep up the good work!

"Lin tells you what he thinks without any varnish on it." Doesn't Cheney do the same? So much for tact and savoir faire.


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## Inkpot

"But I wasn't suggesting that YOU perform this experiment (interesting that you hadn't done so before posting your opinion that it has no effect, by the way) but for anybody reading this who might question two different opinions."

You're right, I felt foolish second guessing myself on something everyone who's made a buck in the industry already knows.  I thought...well, maybe...nahhh.  But sure enough. 

You just keep right on misguiding folks with your need to be right.


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## Linton Robinson

> You're right, I felt foolish


Valid feeling.  Go with it.

The one having trouble with dissenting opinion here would seem to be you, actually.  I realize you can;t see this from where you sit, but when somebody disagrees with you and you immediately start yelping about ego and big rooster and "have to be right" and all that shit, it kind of sounds to people like somebody with some major security issues.

You want to make yourself think you've got Hollywood by the tail, but I'm guessing the reality is a long, long way from that.

So you know a lot of selling screenwriters who don't think FD is a different size of font.  I know quite a few who believe otherwise, as I said.    Two different experiences.

I'm very willing, as I said, to allow people to try this out and draw their own conclusions.  You seem to have a problem with that, need for your version to be accepted.

So  you're the one being an asshole about it, and it makes one wonder what your trouble is.
(Also what some hotshot screenwriter is doing in this forum)


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## qwertyman

Is that it ? Are you guys finished? 

Is that it?

Boy, I haven't been so entertained since someone told me that Rock Hudson was gay - I really didn't know.

 All my friends said they knew. I still wonder why they never shared. 

And why I was never invited to Simon's party.


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## The Backward OX

Rock Hudson's _gay?_


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## Linton Robinson

Worse, Doris Day was really a man.


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## Mklangelo

Inkpot said:


> The Small Cock? And you posted again to include it?(!!!) Oh God please don't reduce the conversation to penus puns. You're better than that. Right?
> 
> I have not 5,337 opinions (and counting) to write about anything. At some point it's no longer BS it's diarrhea, and would put such effort toward my own writing if I were you. But hey, this is your world... this... forum... with the green chicklets you've gathered under your moniker. So possesive-like a squirl gathering nuts for the winter. (or in your mind a 5-Star General LOL)  My adivice is to get out more, have some fun, don't take yourself so seriously, especially over Courier font, drop in every once in awhile and sprinkle your brain droppings, not EVERYDAY 10 X, less is more, he who has the highest post count does not win...anything! ROFLMAO!
> 
> BTW your post about Courier is probably on the desktops of 1,500 industry folks by now via mass email that has been forwarded again and again, bringing a good laugh to folks as far away as Canada. See something good did come out of this! Yay! Seriously, they're really getting a kick out of it!  Your ignorance has brought joy to folks you don't even know and it only took me about five seconds to copy and paste. Keep up the good work!
> 
> "Lin tells you what he thinks without any varnish on it." Doesn't Cheney do the same? So much for tact and savoir faire.



Screw you.  WTF does Dick Cheney have to do with this?  idiot.


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## Linton Robinson

He wants us to believe he's a pro writer after posting that.   Weird.


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## Mklangelo

Man, I really wonder sometimes.


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## Inkpot

I made a bet with a couple writer buddies of mine that I could restrain myself from posting.  I won the $20 weeks ago and forgot to come back. 

This thread became a hit with quite a few folks in my world and apparently beyond… (Over 400 hits! People really did read the email blast ROFF!) Seriously, it really was the joke for a few days. I swore I would not post and retaliate anything beyond the last points I made as it would be like, tampering with a polished script.  

MKlangelo, there was a toss up as to what real-life or imagined character you mirror. Not getting the Cheney analogy and running to the rescue of Mr. Long-Cock-Dong made it a tossup between “W”, “B. Fife” - though the two of you together offer a striking resemblance to Boss Hogg and Rosco P. Coltrane. Gshh gshh gshh Come on now…that shit is just funny!!!  It was never decided, so no credits to be dispensed ’round here boys.

Continue on… in this world of green chiclets. 

P.S. - The Rock Hudson thing literally had us crying from laughter. That was just classic. Thanks for dropping in guys-n-gals.


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## Linton Robinson

> I made a bet with a couple writer buddies of mine



Buddies,  imaginary playmates,  alternate personalities... what the hell.

the only thing that makes any sense in the gobbledegook is "this shit is funny".

And indeed it is.  In a sad sort of way.


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## Neo

Revived this thread to save opening another new one on the same subject.

Anyone know where I can get a standard Courier font for screenwriting? I accept Lin's view that any courier font within reason can be used but I'm a perfectionist!


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## Pooley

Courier is a monospaced slab serif typeface designed to resemble the output from a strike-on typewriter.

Courier New is a version of Courier introduced with Windows 3.1, which also included raster Courier fonts. The font family comprises Courier New, Courier New Bold, Courier New Italic, Courier New Bold Italic. Courier New features higher line space than Courier. Punctuation marks are reworked to make the dots and commas heavier.

Courier New is thinner, but the width and size of the font is not changed. It remains a monospaced font, and the ' New' is simply a reference to the additional characters and support added to the font in the Windows package. 

'Courier New' contains 3100 glyphs, as opposed to the Courier, which only contained the glyphs found on a type-writer (and later adapted to the WGL standard). The Windows variant also has support for Hebrew and Arabic characters. 

Finally, another addition that Courier New brought for Windows was higher point size support. You can create a larger Courier New font than you can Courier.

Some of this information is shamelessly stolen from wikipedia, but the other stuff is from my own research, because I am a geek like that and you got me interested. 

In the end, Courier New is practically a name-change, and some say this was due to a copyright issue Microsoft had with IBM, the original producers of the digitilised Courier font.

In screenplays it means absolutely nothing. I mean nothing as in there is no difference in final product from 'Courier' and 'Courier New'. It IS the industry standard, and the newer producers will not care nor notice what variation you use. The font family (series of font variations) are used for the reasons already specified in this thread.

PS. I stress that when I say 'it means absolutely nothing', I'm referring to the relation between the font variations. I do not want to get into a debate as seen in the thread.


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## Pooley

RE: Neo

I looked, but as I found out Courier New is now the Courier of old. The only way to get Courier is to install an old version of Windows, copy it onto a floppy disk, and transfer it back to your new operating system. OR, you can fork out AUD $55 (I'm Australian and the site adjusted price automatically for such), for a *reproduced version of the font*, *not affiliated with IBM* who have ceased to produce it. 

I stress that if you do really really want to buy it for the name to quell any perfectionist desires you may have (like I do, but have neither the money nor credit card to do it ) to be careful - the 'Courier' fonts that you will find on the internet are reproduced by font-makers, and are not technically the original font, just modelled after it. 

You really will not find a productive difference between Courier and Courier New - except your mind will be at ease because you can select 'Courier' from the font list.


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