# What a joke am I.



## Smith (Aug 8, 2017)

Art imitates life-
Rat race on a hamster wheel.
Life imitates art.


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## ned (Aug 9, 2017)

hello - this poem doesn't tie-in for me.
where is the art? - and how does it all relate to the title?

to start and finish with bold statements requires some sort of qualification-
for example - rat race through a Lowry - so both life and art are referenced.

unless I'm missing something.............Ned


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## Pete_C (Aug 9, 2017)

The issue with minimal poems is that you have a very short window to try and get across a message, and to have that impact we'd expect from such an approach the impact has to be significant. The ability to put out three lines, with two being almost cliches, and deliver a thought provoking piece isn't something that is easy. Even those who have delivered classic variants don't do so often. Many only have one to their name.

As a reader you've given me little to work with, so it has to hit home, and hit home hard. Sadly this didn't. The downside is that when you take a format that demands something profound, and it doesn't deliver, it actually becomes more disappointing.


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## JustRob (Aug 9, 2017)

I agree with the comments, but can we improve on it? If not, are we worthy to comment? Here's my attempt at minimal changes, also trying to keep to the sentiment.

Art imitates life
But for my part
Life imitates art.

When writing with very few words choose them extremely carefully. Then consider whether to expand on them, e.g.

Rat in a wheel,
That's how I feel,
Is there no hope?
How can I cope?

Am I a dope
For being this way?
...


... and so on. Very short poems are enjoyable, but they do need some thinking out, just like longer ones.


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## Nellie (Aug 9, 2017)

Smith said:


> Art imitates life-
> Rat race on a hamster wheel.
> Life imitates art.




This poem, with the 5-7-5 syllable format, is the format of a 'haiku'-

Was that the intention?


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## JustRob (Aug 9, 2017)

Nellie said:


> This poem, with the 5-7-5 syllable format, is the format of a 'haiku'-
> 
> Was that the intention?



What, art for art's sake? That's me out of the picture then. Life for life's sake is more my style. Back to the prose then. What a joke am I.


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## andrewclunn (Aug 9, 2017)

I'd change the title to "Say Cheese!"


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## Smith (Aug 9, 2017)

ned said:


> hello - this poem doesn't tie-in for me.
> where is the art? - and how does it all relate to the title?
> 
> to start and finish with bold statements requires some sort of qualification-
> ...



In an ironic way I'm glad that this was the response, because I more or less wrote this senryu for myself, and there's no way you could've known.

Sorry if that frustrated you; I wrote this out of my own frustration, being at my wit's end with feeling like all my effort into writing is for nothing. Competing for success, but no matter what just spinning my wheels. Lost. Feeling like there's no progress. And because writing is what I've wanted to do with my life, my life imitates my stagnant writing, and my stagnant writing imitates my life. My intention was not to waste your time, although you understandably may have felt that way.

I guess if one wants to be literal about it though, the feeling of having wasted your time reading this poem is often the feeling I get having bothered to write or "improve" at all. Although again, I stress that I didn't *want* to waste anybody's time.

Not looking for a pity party. More of a "if you aim high and hit low over and over, aim low and hit low so that at least your expectations will finally be met."

Maybe I just need another indefinite break as my profile Location suggests, rather than deliberately fulfilling a prophecy of failure for the sake of resentment. Analogous to how it's often better to leave and wonder whether you'll be missed, as opposed to knowing you won't be missed, which makes leaving less of a choice.



Pete_C said:


> The issue with minimal poems is that you have a very short window to try and get across a message, and to have that impact we'd expect from such an approach the impact has to be significant. The ability to put out three lines, with two being almost cliches, and deliver a thought provoking piece isn't something that is easy. Even those who have delivered classic variants don't do so often. Many only have one to their name.
> 
> As a reader you've given me little to work with, so it has to hit home, and hit home hard. Sadly this didn't. The downside is that when you take a format that demands something profound, and it doesn't deliver, it actually becomes more disappointing.



Thank-you very much for your time Pete, and your advice is spot on. Helpful individuals such as yourself are appreciated here. I'd like to refer you to the response above rather than explain myself again.



JustRob said:


> I agree with the comments, but can we improve on it? If not, are we worthy to comment? Here's my attempt at minimal changes, also trying to keep to the sentiment.
> 
> Art imitates life
> But for my part
> ...



I'm very grateful you went through the trouble of rewriting it as an example of how to improve it. I think this is something I'd like to see a lot more in feedback, and something I always try to do myself.



Nellie said:


> This poem, with the 5-7-5 syllable format, is the format of a 'haiku'-
> 
> Was that the intention?



Yes, you would be correct. Although I'd also like to ask you to read my response to Ned for a better explanation.



JustRob said:


> What, art for art's sake? That's me out of the picture then. Life for life's sake is more my style. Back to the prose then. What a joke am I.



Your advice was appreciated, Rob. Sorry if you feel like I wasted your time.



andrewclunn said:


> I'd change the title to "Say Cheese!"



Haha, thanks Andrew.


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## Nellie (Aug 9, 2017)

> Originally Posted
> 
> by *Nellie*
> This poem, with the 5-7-5 syllable format, is the format of a 'haiku'-
> ...



I did read your response to Ned. It was great! I guess one needs to know a bit about senryu/haiku in order to remark about a 3 line poem.:scratch:


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## Deleted member 56014 (Aug 9, 2017)

I agree with the comments above and I would like to give you some advice. I honestly can not understand what was that you were trying to achieve with this poem, so I can not help you in that matter, but I like simplicity. I like simplicity because, you know when enough is enough. I like simplicity because is tricky and challenging, makes you think in new perspectives and lets you write all you want to write when the will to write is zero. At least this is my opinion and I hope it serves you for something.


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## Smith (Aug 9, 2017)

Nellie said:


> I did read your response to Ned. It was great! I guess one needs to know a bit about senryu/haiku in order to remark about a 3 line poem.:scratch:



Glad it made sense. Even if you don't have a lot of haiku experience, your thoughts are more than welcome.

I just wanted you to know ahead of time that ultimately this piece was me venting. I wouldn't consider it a throwaway, but it only makes sense if you know what the author was going through then he wrote it. Knowing that means understanding why it was written, and then it makes more sense.

But, as demonstrated from the other comments, there's no way of gleaning that from these three lines. Which is fine. I was completely aware of that ahead of time, even though downing a couple Molson's also had a significant effect in my decision to share something this cryptic and personal.



bspn said:


> I agree with the comments above and I would like to give you some advice. I honestly can not understand what was that you were trying to achieve with this poem, so I can not help you in that matter, but I like simplicity. I like simplicity because, you know when enough is enough. I like simplicity because is tricky and challenging, makes you think in new perspectives and lets you write all you want to write when the will to write is zero. At least this is my opinion and I hope it serves you for something.



As far as what I was trying to achieve, look no further than my responses to Ned and Nellie.

-I vented my frustration through it, meaning it was cathartic.
-I acted out my resentment at the fact that I feel stuck in my ability. I have nothing to show for anything I've done. I feel disappointed. Like a failure. But I aimed so low with this that I guaranteed a negative response anyway, and in doing so got a perverse sense of satisfaction out of it.

Totally agree with you about simplicity. Don't mistake this poem for being something pretentious, or an attempt at complexity. Nothing of the sort. Take a look through my work and I think you'll find a lot of it is actually pretty simple.

Thanks bspn, and I like your Calvin and Hobbes profile pic.

Sincerely,

-Kyle


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## jpatricklemarr (Aug 9, 2017)

I know that the goal is usually to use something personal to make art that is ultimately universal but, as with most things in life, that's often easier said than done. When I write poetry, it's almost always for ME...even if the poem itself is a fiction. I'm not convinced that universality should be the goal with poetry. I do, however, think that there can be a universality in the emotions or gut reaction that a poem ignites...and the simplest way to accomplish that is to just be real. Don't hesitate. Don't edit yourself into oblivion. Merely lay yourself bare and, whether or not the work is a perfectly crafted thing, someone somewhere will read it and say, "Yes! I get it! I've felt that way before, too." That's always what I'm shooting for...and it tends to work better when you forget the audience and just dive inward. That's my two cents...on very little sleep and not enough caffeine.  The piece was short and perhaps too on the nose, but (to me) that works for this. When someone sighs with exasperation, we recognize that emotion. That's what this piece seems to be...a written sigh.


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## Smith (Aug 9, 2017)

jpatricklemarr said:


> I know that the goal is usually to use something personal to make art that is ultimately universal but, as with most things in life, that's often easier said than done. When I write poetry, it's almost always for ME...even if the poem itself is a fiction. I'm not convinced that universality should be the goal with poetry. I do, however, think that there can be a universality in the emotions or gut reaction that a poem ignites...and the simplest way to accomplish that is to just be real. Don't hesitate. Don't edit yourself into oblivion. Merely lay yourself bare and, whether or not the work is a perfectly crafted thing, someone somewhere will read it and say, "Yes! I get it! I've felt that way before, too." That's always what I'm shooting for...and it tends to work better when you forget the audience and just dive inward. That's my two cents...on very little sleep and not enough caffeine.  The piece was short and perhaps too on the nose, but (to me) that works for this. When someone sighs with exasperation, we recognize that emotion. That's what this piece seems to be...a written sigh.



I honestly couldn't agree more Patrick; you've expressed my feelings about this better than I've ever managed. Thank-you. ^_^

Hadn't considered interpreting the piece this way, but it rings true with me as if it had played some subconscious part I wasn't aware of at the time. I am very glad that you were able to conclude something about the piece that worked for you.

Cheers,

-Kyle


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## Jan (Aug 10, 2017)

This reminded me of one of those paintings where the artists draws something unorthodoxily simple. Like a painting with green color but no symbols or any other patterns. To some, it can be considered greatness, perfection even. To most, an unachieved attempt at getting a message across. To me, it was the latter.

Don't take that up as a bad thing though


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## Deleted member 56014 (Aug 10, 2017)

Smith said:


> As far as what I was trying to achieve, look no further than my responses to Ned and Nellie.
> 
> -I vented my frustration through it, meaning it was cathartic.
> -I acted out my resentment at the fact that I feel stuck in my ability. I have nothing to show for anything I've done. I feel disappointed. Like a failure. But I aimed so low with this that I guaranteed a negative response anyway, and in doing so got a perverse sense of satisfaction out of it.
> ...



I never judge or think anything about a poem or a person. Each one has different ways of perceiving the world and has different experiences. After reading and thinking about your explanation this has another meaning. In a sort of way, was a cleaver way of putting how you feel and achieving what you wanted. This is why we are here, to learn and improve. Good job!

Thanks mate, Calvin and Hobbes can teach a lot ehehe


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