# Morning commute



## Staff Deployment (May 4, 2013)

Yesterday a man was talking to himself on the train. Very loudly. I didn't listen (plugging in terrible music to drown him out), but I caught some words in between songs. He talked sometimes about his family lineage, or a long-lost high-school friend, or a list of his favourite breeds of cat. He was just making noise. Very loud and... very frightening.

He got off at a station about halfway to the city. When the doors closed, everyone in the carriage breathed and laughed nervously to themselves and smiled. We all made eye contact with each other and had a little bit of human connection over a shared antagonist.

I watched him walk along the platform as we pulled away. He cupped his hands to his mouth, and blew a kiss to the train. It was rather surreal.


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## Ariel (May 4, 2013)

That does sound very surreal.  He sounds like he was very lonely and very strange.  Maybe you could use him as fodder for writing?


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## Angelicpersona (May 4, 2013)

As you likely guessed, he probably has some form of mental illness. It can be very frightening when you're first experiencing it. I've been working with people like that for a year and I still get freaked out sometimes.


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## Lewdog (May 4, 2013)

I was around a guy that would put his hand to his head with his thumb and pinky fingers extended like it was a cell phone.  He would walk around for hours talking like someone was on the other end.  I would find pieces of paper laying around where he made lists of chicken breeds and what was important about each breed.  It takes all kinds to make the world.


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## Gumby (May 4, 2013)

I guess we're all uncomfortable to be around someone like that. I used to see people walking the streets and carrying on a loud conversation with no one there, when I lived in California. I feel for them, but they also scare me a little.


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## JosephB (May 4, 2013)

Sounds like a typical train ride in the ATL -- and it's common in other cities too. In bad weather, some homeless folks, many of them mentally ill, will get on the train and ride as long as they can to escape the heat or cold. So you get the talkers and mumblers and preachers of the end-times. It used to be a lot more common, but not so much now that the fairs are so high. It can be annoying, but you can't help but feel sad too. And yeah, it can be a little scary also when you're by yourself.


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## Trilby (May 4, 2013)

'There but for the grace of God go I' 

One in ten people will suffer some form of mental illness in their lifetime. In the majority of these cases the sufferer will vulnerable and possible timid. A very small minority are a danger to the public. You are more likely to be mugged, raped, burgled or murdered by someone of sound mind than you are from someone with a mental illness.

Just a thought!


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## alanmt (May 4, 2013)

There is an older guy who I sometimes see walking downtown near my office with some form of mental illness.  He talks low and angrily to himself but whenever anyone gets close, within 20 feet or so, he yells abusively at them, most often using a combination of racist and homophobic epithets and graphic sexual suggestions. I saw him once in the corner drugstore where I get snacks picking up some medication; the lady behind the counter told me that his inappropriate yelling behavior stops as soon as he walks in the door, so he must have some modest ability to curb his compulsion when necessary. The things he says are so foul that they make even civilized me angry enough to want to beat his face in, so I would not be surprised if he suffers reactive violence at some point.  Probably fortunately for him, his preferred time to wander seems to be in the morning, not around bar closing time.


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## JosephB (May 4, 2013)

Trilby said:


> 'There but for the grace of God go I'



I was thinking that and was going to say it -- but I thought it might be a bit too melodramatic. I'm glad you did though -- because there's a whole lot of truth to it. The  way we treat the mentally ill in this country is appalling. 

Pro bono, I wrote a communications plan and put together a fund raising package for a church-run local organization that provides a day center for people who live in these group homes where so many mentally ill people have to live. What a joke -- totally non-qualified people run them, and even “manage” the small amount of money they get from the state. With this place they have a somewhere to go – arts and crafts are a favorite – and some of them do beautiful work. They also have a garden and greenhouse. They get lunch and there’s a clothes closet too. Recently the program has been cut down to 3 days a week -- pretty sad. It’s a shame that people in the private sector have to take this on -- and even so, it’s a drop in the bucket. A lot of times, homeless people come by, but they have to be turned away – they couldn’t handle the potential deluge if word got out.

My wife also helped manage a day care for homeless women looking for jobs -- and the state shut them down because they didn’t have enough money to get the facility up to the states arbitrary standards. I guess it was better to keep the women from looking for gainful employment. Ludicrous.


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## Kevin (May 4, 2013)

There was a woman on the subway. I was on vacation. No one makes eye contact in that city. I heard this low volumn sound and it took a moment to locate where it was coming from; her voice. It sounded like a voice on the radio. She was talking as if telling a story. No one looked at her. I know she was off  and she smelled of urine. Her voice was extremely pleasant and even in tone. Her clothes were not filthy, but looked old and worn.  Her voice was calm and very nice to hear. French spoken by a woman can be so nice.


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## Kevin (May 4, 2013)

alanmt said:


> ..... his inappropriate yelling behavior stops ...... not around bar closing time.


 He might've learned that one the hard way, too. I think the pain aversion responce (or something like it) even works on amoebas.


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## jayelle_cochran (May 4, 2013)

Is it weird that I wouldn't have found that guy to be scary?  I've met a lot of mentally ill people over the years and as Trilby said, most of them are harmless.  This guy probably just needed to talk for whatever reason and didn't care about other people watching.  

I used to give lectures at a college for students who were taking either abnormal psychology or child psychology.  Two of the professors used to love to invite me to talk to their classes.  I also gave a talk for a school that had children with mental and psychological issues.  My daughter went to the school and the Principal was one of the professors I mentioned.  He had gained interest in me when I spoke to his wife (the other professor) about my own issues and whatnot before my daughter went to his school.

Here's why I gave the talks:  I am mentally ill and considered to be a severe case.  I've been hospitalized 15 times over the course of 3 1/2 years.  Basically from the time my illness became uncontrollable without medication up until the doctors were able to finally find meds that work.  My reasons behind giving the lectures were two fold.  One, I've been dealing with my illness since I was a child, and so I was able to tell the students at the college and the staff at the elementary school what having a mental illness as a child is like, and the things that helped me back then.  Two, I was able to show these students that a person can have a severe mental illness and still function in society.  We're not all like those people you see on the streets talking to themselves.

One of the hospitals I stayed at was a state facility (actually a few were).  While at those places I met quite a few who were homeless.  I talked with them and got to know them a bit, as they did me.  I was never kept in the area where they have those who are dangerous because I didn't need to be there myself.  So, most of those I met were very benign.  They weren't all pleasant or kind, some were mean.  But, most of them were people like me...they all just wanted to get on with their lives and not suffer so much.  Yes, I said suffer...because mental illnesses do cause a great deal of suffering for those who experience them.  I consider the 3 years it took to get stable to be my own personal hell.  It was a scary time for me and what I went through I wouldn't wish on any enemy.

I don't give the talks anymore because I don't live near the college (other side of the country actually).  However, I have considered seeing if any of the schools in my area would like for me to give a lecture or two.  It was nerve wracking to tell my story to a bunch of strangers but it also helped.  More often than not I would have students come up to me and tell me that they didn't know that someone with my diagnosis (Bipolar 1 with psychotic features) and the severity I was classified under could actually keep it together.  They were surprised that I was intelligent and articulate.  They were amazed that I could take care of my two special needs children with my husband deployed so often (military) and myself.  Yes, someone actually said, "But, you're so ill and don't seem it."  

I know they were giving me compliments, however I found what they said to be very sad.  I don't remember the statistic, but there is a very high amount of mentally ill people out there (70%? 80%? don't remember).  Chances are, you have friends or colleagues who are mentally ill to some degree and you don't know it.  Most of us lead normal lives...or as close to normal as the medications and therapies allow.  I was sad because it shouldn't be such a shock to people that a person can have bipolar (or any mental illness) and function.  Those you see on the streets or on the subway talking to themselves aren't under treatment.  However, they're usually quite harmless and are handling things the best they can.  

Sorry...didn't mean to write so much.  lol  This is a topic that I have a lot of passion for.  I like spreading awareness I guess.  

*hugs*
Jayelle


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## JosephB (May 4, 2013)

I certainly appreciate where you're coming from, but I used to work downtown, and some of the homeless people, including some who were clearly mentally ill and/or high or drunk could be quite aggressive.  I don't think anyone's talking about being really frightened -- more like uneasy. A think that's a fairly natural reaction.


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## moderan (May 4, 2013)

Indeed. Such folk are quite common here, this being a warm-weather city. They occupy the ecological niche of the common snowbird, seems like. The homeless and mentally ill become much more prevalent when the snowbirds (snobbirds?) leave for the remainder of the year.
The apartment complex that I used to live in housed a number of people who were functionally disabled. It's difficult to deal with on a daily basis, and my hat is off to the professionals who do so. Yep, that's the bedrock reason why my book, which is based on that place, has the title it does.
Here it's made much worse by the prevalence of methamphetamine. People in northern cities just don't get the magnitude of what the southern cities face in terms of homeless, mentally ill, drug abusers, down-on-their-luck people of all stripes. Downtown, there are literally fifty missions where they can get food, overnight lodging, and some limited forms of care. Probably fifty or a hundred beds per facility, and it isn't nearly enough.
When I commuted via bus, I would try to speak with them...just out of interest, and a desire to learn, to share a human moment, maybe. That was troubling...in terms of what I learned about the treatment of such folks. Common sense told me not to identify myself.
There are supposed to be a couple of thousand homeless, mentally ill people in Tucson. A lot of them came down from Phoenix and Vegas, where they're treated even worse, I'm told.
Sad. So sad...especially since it's ultimately preventable or minimizable with minimum effort.


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## Lewdog (May 4, 2013)

moderan said:


> Sad. So sad...especially since it's ultimately preventable or minimizable with minimum effort.



Are you saying that treatment for mental illness is ultimately preventable or minimize-able with minimum effort?  I'm not sure what your personal experience is other than meeting people in society, but mental illness often takes years just to diagnose, let alone the extended period of time it takes to find the right medication for treatment.  I've spent the last several years just trying to find the right medicine and have been in and out of treatment facilities.  Depending on the mental illness, it can become difficult to keep up with all the appointments you have to go to.  It's not as simple as just going to see your family physician.  Try having to see a therapist, a psyche doctor, and your family physician just in order to get your medicine, that often times ends up being changed.  It's hard enough for me as it is, I couldn't imagine if I had some kind of addiction problem or was still homeless.  Minimum effort?


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## moderan (May 4, 2013)

What I said is that there isn't enough treatment for the mentally ill in this country and that such would be preventable with minimum effort. But the money is funneled elsewhere. Do try to keep up. Perhaps my coat-tails are hitched too high?


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## Lewdog (May 4, 2013)

moderan said:


> What I said is that there isn't enough treatment for the mentally ill in this country and that such would be preventable with minimum effort. But the money is funneled elsewhere. Do try to keep up. Perhaps my coat-tails are hitched too high?



What you said came across differently to me, sorry if I misunderstood.  There really is no easy cure for mental illness.  The fact that there is no physical measurement to diagnose mental illness makes it easy for some to lie in order to get special treatment.  I found out first hand how doctors can treat people who get checked into hospitals that are down on their luck.  They will accuse them of telling lies in order to get a warm bed and three meals.  This happened to me my second to last stay in a hospital because I had lost my job and my electricity had been shut off.  This doctor's attitude was like this, despite having been hospitalized four times previously, two of which were after suicide attempts.  So if a doctor would treat me like that, you can only imagine how they would treat a homeless person who walks in off the street or is referred from a homeless shelter.


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## JosephB (May 4, 2013)

moderan said:


> What I said is that there isn't enough treatment for the mentally ill in this country and that such would be preventable with minimum effort. But the money is funneled elsewhere.



Elswhere -- like wasting trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of taking care of our own people.


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## moderan (May 4, 2013)

Things like that, yes.


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## dale (May 4, 2013)

yes. everything the government does is a corrupt and inefficient mess. why anyone would want them to 
dictate healthcare is beyond me. only a fool would trust the US government with anything as important
as a person's life and death decisions.


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## JosephB (May 4, 2013)

You're jumping to conclusions. I'm talking about _mental _health care -- specifically for people who are clearly not capable of paying for or managing their own health care -- many of whom should be in residential facilities. Do have a better idea other than government run mental heath care? The private sector isn't going to do anything. Why do you think there are so many mentally ill people on the street?


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## Staff Deployment (May 4, 2013)

[redacted]


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## dale (May 4, 2013)

Staff Deployment said:


> Okay whoa whoa whoa hold up. I read the first page and felt better that people were having an excellent discussion about things, and now on the second page it's all devolved into argumentation. For some reason.
> 
> Dale – you have personal reasons to be frustrated; he's undoubtedly driving other customers away, and your boss is wrong to insist he stays. But you can't think that if you had problems of your own (as severe as the man in your motel) you would still carry the fortitude of mind to seek proper care for yourself. When you're in that position you have to rely on other people a lot more than anyone should have to, or would feel comfortable doing. There aren't any easy answers, and certainly no way to tell someone to 'just get over' their illness and start functioning normally.
> 
> ...


i never said they were inferior. not in so many words. my point was merely that most mental illness today
is a result of people being led to believe such a diagnosis is a form of help in itself. i may have worded it a bit 
too passionately. i understand that there are people out there who need help and suffer from no fault of their own.
these people i would have no problem with them receiving help. my point is simply that in a world where a pill is a
 cure all for everything.....and people are many times taught that self-reliance is anathema, sometimes self-inflicted
mental illness become a great crutch to lean on. didn't mean to offend anyone with my previous posts. i just talk 
in the moment sometimes.


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## shadowwalker (May 4, 2013)

Just a couple comments and then I'm bowing out before I lose it altogether...

Mental illness is not 'self-inflicted'. Mental illness is not preventable; it is treatable - sometimes. People get uneasy around anyone who is different. I see people talking loudly to no one all the time - then I see the little cellphone thingy in their ear.

A little more educating and a lot less stereotyping would be nice. Not expected, but nice.


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## dale (May 4, 2013)

i'm bowing out, too. sorry. but i've seen dozens of people convince themselves of what was classified as "mental illness" as their own reality. i've seen it with my own eyes many times. it's not stereotyping. it's reality. peace.


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## moderan (May 4, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> Mental illness is not 'self-inflicted'. Mental illness is not preventable; it is treatable - sometimes.





> there isn't enough treatment for the mentally ill in this country and that such would be preventable with minimum effort



Reading comp 101.


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## shadowwalker (May 4, 2013)

moderan said:


> Reading comp 101.





dale said:


> sometimes self-inflicted
> mental illness become a great crutch to lean on.


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## Staff Deployment (May 4, 2013)

> Are we quoting things now can I play





			
				Notorious Bank Robber Dennis the Menace said:
			
		

> Windows 7 was my idea


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## dale (May 4, 2013)

well. i guess i'll say a bit more as to my POV. my dad was in vietnam. a horrible war for a man to go through. 
the man fell in a pit of iron spikes which stuck him through the back and legs. watched his best friends die. killed
multiple north vietmanese. sometimes he still has nightmares, but he didn't let it drag him down. he was a great husband
and father. a very beautiful soul. beautiful heart. he had the strength to not let it mess his head up. he didn't need
any drugs for it. he carried on and lived his life to the fullest. now we have these veterans of desert storm who didn't even come close
to experiencing what he did as far as suffering claiming ptsd and having this legitimately diagnosed as a mental illness
and then falling for that and becoming absolute social degenerates over the diagnosis. we have people making a conscience choice 
to take illegal addictive drugs and then contemporary society telling them they're victims of some social disease nonsense
which only enables their addiction to the point of becoming lost in it. we have doctors prescribing little kids amphetamines to
alleviate standard rambunctious childhood behavior and labeling it as adhd. we have become a culture of self inflicted mental illness.
people used to have the strength to overcome. now? everyone wants to hide behind these sympathetic diagnosis as a matter
of weakness which enables an irregular pattern of thinking to manifest. then they actually fall victim to this sick mentality and can't even
rely on themselves anymore. they are duped into psychosomatic mental illness.


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## moderan (May 4, 2013)

> Mental illness is not *preventable*; it is treatable - sometimes.





> there isn't enough treatment for the mentally ill in this country and that such would be *preventable* with minimum effort


Reading comp 102. Quoting 101. With all due respect...get it right. If you're responding to something specific, quote that specifically.


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## Staff Deployment (May 4, 2013)

Notorious Bank Robber Dennis the Menace said:
			
		

> Down south we call dem chooks good eatin'!





			
				Some Other Guy said:
			
		

> Never trust a man flinging a running chainsaw around like a javelin while screaming racial epitaphs.



EDIT:



			
				Notorious Bank Robber Dennis the Menace said:
			
		

> Therefore, as long as you're not screaming racial epitaphs, it is perfectly alright to trust a man flinging a running chainsaw around like a javelin.



EDITEDIT:

This in response to the weird habit that popped up on the previous page of posting contextless quotes with the intention that they'll speak for themselves...?

Anyway I see more than just the man on the train; at the station and tram stops, one in particular, there always seem to be at least one person staggering around and screaming the lyrics to songs or flinging insults at passersby or people just trying to grab a sandwich (me). It's quite disheartening.


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## moderan (May 4, 2013)

Staff Deployment said:


> EDIT:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol. I suppose you'll have to read through the thread to place them then. Or not. I just objected to being lumped in with the general "stereotyping" thing since I was doing nothing of the sort.
Very funny stuff though. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest you have a future as a comedian. But perhaps you have a future.
*insert rimshot here*
Do you perhaps mean to have substituted the word "epithets" for "epitaphs", or is that an "end is near" prediction also. Where is the finish line for the human race anyway?

Signed,

Mental as Anything


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## Angelicpersona (May 5, 2013)

dale said:


> we have doctors prescribing little kids amphetamines to
> alleviate standard rambunctious childhood behavior and labeling it as adhd. .


Interesting fact - did you know that the signs of ADHD and childhood depression are deceivingly similar? I learned that my my support workers class a few weeks ago, and it made me stop and thing, well, how many kids are being diagnosed with ADHD and are really just depressed about something?


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## JosephB (May 5, 2013)

Never mind.


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## shadowwalker (May 5, 2013)

Just a note - my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. I was making general statements based on several comments in this thread - so reading comp 103 might be read what was written, not what you infer it to be.

And Dale, you might want to actually do some research on mental illnesses before making such blanket statements. My father was on Iwo Jima during WWII - saw his best buddy blown up right beside him, used flame throwers to take of Japanese soldiers holed up in caves, was a sniper, won the Bronze Star - wouldn't talk about it at all except to my mother, and yes, he was a very gentle and caring man. And he understood about people with mental illnesses - definitely not of the General Patton mold. If you knew anything about mental illness - and it's pretty obvious that you don't - you would understand that nobody would "self-inflict". I've lost so many years to my MI, years that I wish, with all my heart, that I could take back, re-do, un-do. Nobody would put themselves through that kind of hell if they could possibly help it. MIs are not like drugs and alcohol - we have no choice whatsoever as to whether or not we will end up with an MI. All we can do is hope medication and therapy will help us cope with it. Reading statements such as those you have made - I can only shake my head and hope you will try to actually learn about it before too long.


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## moderan (May 5, 2013)

> And along with that, the implication that if you feel uneasy around  someone who's acting out of the ordinary -- despite whatever experiences  you might have had -- you're being irrational or just don't get it.
> 
> Of course, we've also learned that because some mental disorders are  over-diagnosed and over-medicated -- all mental illness, apparently  including schizophrenia and bi-polar, or severe obsessive-compulsive  disorders -- or host of other mental illnesses or impairments that can  prevent people from working and taking care of themselves are all  exaggerated or fabricated. They're simply things people can push through  if they have enough willpower -- and there's no need for any  professional treatment, medication or residential care. Pretty amazing.


Yeah, quite true. I've just been through a couple of years of fairly intensive therapy for depression and ptsd, apparently generated by my recent medical experiences. I used to be one of those people that thought depression was a crock, and you could stare it down, so to speak, and just get on with life. Certainly opened my eyes as far as that.
I'm no so dense as to not see the connection between that and my belief that resisting addiction is merely a matter of willpower--but the latter has worked for me for 51 years...so it's very difficult to let go of that bit of seeming ignorance.
I would love to see people get the counseling, meds, the time and attention that they need, and deserve, and to have such ignorances be the exception, rather than the rule. But I just can't see it happening.
Some of the content of this thread illustrates why in all-too-real detail.



> Just a note - my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. I was  making general statements based on several comments in this thread - so  reading comp 103 might be read what was written, not what you infer it  to be.



No, that's not true. You lumped a statement of mine in with the general stereotyping sort of angle you were pursuing when I was saying nothing of the sort. That was not an inference, that was simple fact. If you're going to report what I've said, get it right. 
Post #26 in this thread perfectly illustrates that conflation. You're just trying to move the goalposts so that you can appear to be correct, because you don't like your word to be questioned, as you've made known previously. Nobody does. But it happens, and it's a fact of life in an online forum.
I'm not dale. I'm not ignorant of the problems or the possible solutions involved in treating the mentally ill. And I object to being included in such a disingenuous blanket statement.


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## dale (May 5, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> Just a note - my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. I was making general statements based on several comments in this thread - so reading comp 103 might be read what was written, not what you infer it to be.
> 
> And Dale, you might want to actually do some research on mental illnesses before making such blanket statements. My father was on Iwo Jima during WWII - saw his best buddy blown up right beside him, used flame throwers to take of Japanese soldiers holed up in caves, was a sniper, won the Bronze Star - wouldn't talk about it at all except to my mother, and yes, he was a very gentle and caring man. And he understood about people with mental illnesses - definitely not of the General Patton mold. If you knew anything about mental illness - and it's pretty obvious that you don't - you would understand that nobody would "self-inflict". I've lost so many years to my MI, years that I wish, with all my heart, that I could take back, re-do, un-do. Nobody would put themselves through that kind of hell if they could possibly help it. MIs are not like drugs and alcohol - we have no choice whatsoever as to whether or not we will end up with an MI. All we can do is hope medication and therapy will help us cope with it. Reading statements such as those you have made - I can only shake my head and hope you will try to actually learn about it before too long.



i acknowledged that there are people out there with legitimate mental illnesses that need treatment. that schizo i got into with yesterday is a good example.
the man needs meds or institutionalized. i'm just saying that our society has gone over the top with it to the point that many of these things classified as
"mental illness" are just people unwilling to cope and numbing themselves out with pills or using it as an excuse to alleviate self-reliance. like this whole bi-polarism fad.
are there legitimately manic depressive people? yeah. but it's such an easy diagnosis to get nowadays, i feel most of the people calling themselves bi-polar are
simply using the diagnosis for a crutch.


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## Pluralized (May 5, 2013)

You never know what someone is going through, no matter their behavior or outward appearance. That's why my default approach to situations I'm ignorant about is to be compassionate and attempt to understand their plight. Having a close friend take his own life after struggling with depression really reinforced my rationale, regardless of the societal implications of the "crutch."

Some people have a living hell in their own heads. And remember, we all have our own vice or crutch, though you might justify it in a way that makes you feel superior.


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## Lewdog (May 5, 2013)

It's anyone's right to have an opinion, and Dale's feelings serve as a good tool for those that don't really understand all views of this subject.  Sometimes there are certain things that can't be very easily understood by people unless they can experience it for themselves.  After all, how can someone understand the idea of being bi-polar if they have never had a manic episode where they are up for over three days and start hearing and seeing things, followed by other episodes that they are so depressed they sleep 22 hours a day?  It has to be a difficult thing for some people to wrap their minds around, that people would alienate themselves from friends and family for absolutely no reason, making their problems even worse.  I don't understand how that would be considered a crutch.


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## dale (May 5, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> It's anyone's right to have an opinion, and Dale's feelings serve as a good tool for those that don't really understand all views of this subject.  Sometimes there are certain things that can't be very easily understood by people unless they can experience it for themselves.  After all, how can someone understand the idea of being bi-polar if they have never had a manic episode where they are up for over three days and start hearing and seeing things, followed by other episodes that they are so depressed they sleep 22 hours a day?  It has to be a difficult thing for some people to wrap their minds around, that people would alienate themselves from friends and family for absolutely no reason, making their problems even worse.  I don't understand how that would be considered a crutch.


what you just described i would very much consider a legitimate case. but from what i've seen in people i personally know calling themselves bi-polar and getting the psychotropic drugs for it, they are mainly women stressed out with the problems of everyday life who want to eat a pill. which that's fine i guess, if that helps them through
their day. i do the same thing with wine. but your not going to convince me it's a legitimate mental illness when they do that. because if that's bi-polar....then pretty much me and everyone i know is bi-polar.


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## Lewdog (May 5, 2013)

dale said:


> what you just described i would very much consider a legitimate case. but from what i've seen in people i personally know calling themselves bi-polar and getting the psychotropic drugs for it, they are mainly women stressed out with the problems of everyday life who want to eat a pill. which that's fine i guess, if that helps them through
> their day. i do the same thing with wine. but your not going to convince me it's a legitimate mental illness when they do that. because if that's bi-polar....then pretty much me and everyone i know is bi-polar.



That's just it, and what I'm about to say is also a reason so many people don't seek out treatment, what's the positive of being labeled 'mentally ill?'  For the longest time I suffered without treatment because like my cousin pointed out to me, once I do, I'm forever 'labeled.'  That means certain opportunities and rights for the rest of my life are all of a sudden gone.  There are now jobs, that even if I was able to control my illness that I could no longer get.  I also am no longer eligible (if I'm honest on a background check or once the government creates a national database) to buy a fire arm.  So because I sought treatment for my mental illness, I now have less rights than others.  The positive is that hopefully the later years of my life will eventually get better, but at the same time, I'm stuck with a label for the rest of my life.  Where is the positive in that?


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## dale (May 5, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> That's just it, and what I'm about to say is also a reason so many people don't seek out treatment, what's the positive of being labeled 'mentally ill?'  For the longest time I suffered without treatment because like my cousin pointed out to me, once I do, I'm forever 'labeled.'  That means certain opportunities and rights for the rest of my life are all of a sudden gone.  There are now jobs, that even if I was able to control my illness that I could no longer get.  I also am no longer eligible (if I'm honest on a background check or once the government creates a national database) to buy a fire arm.  So because I sought treatment for my mental illness, I now have less rights than others.  The positive is that hopefully the later years of my life will eventually get better, but at the same time, I'm stuck with a label for the rest of my life.  Where is the positive in that?



because...being labeled bi-polar nowadays has almost become fashionable. you have hollywood starlets bragging about it on TV. it makes some people
feel better to be labeled a victim in such a way for the sympathy factor or the "look at me" factor. i wanna make clear that i'm not minimizing your
 case whatsoever. if you suffer through what you've described, you legitimately need the treatment. you in no way represent the people i'm talking about. so sorry if my words in this thread may have offended you in anyway. i just think things like bi-polarism and adhd are way overdiagnosed nowadays.


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## nerot (May 5, 2013)

I was going to ask you if you were in San Francisco.  Those kind of experiences were a daily event when I lived there.  It can be very unnerving.


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## Lewdog (May 5, 2013)

dale said:


> because...being labeled bi-polar nowadays has almost become fashionable. you have hollywood starlets bragging about it on TV. it makes some people
> feel better to be labeled a victim in such a way for the sympathy factor or the "look at me" factor. i wanna make clear that i'm not minimizing your
> case whatsoever. if you suffer through what you've described, you legitimately need the treatment. you in no way represent the people i'm talking about. so sorry if my words in this thread may have offended you in anyway. i just think things like bi-polarism and adhd are way overdiagnosed nowadays.



Well maybe things are different for rich people that don't have to deal with every day life, but for a normal citizen, being labeled bi-polar is in no way a positive.  The idea that I can't legally own a gun to defend myself is quite frustrating.  Like I said, I'm not offended, because there is always people that are going to lie for attention like you said, the only problem I have, is with your use of the word 'most.'  Your opinion serves as a good teaching tool for people that don't understand the problem with mental illness today.


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## dale (May 5, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> Well maybe things are different for rich people that don't have to deal with every day life, but for a normal citizen, being labeled bi-polar is no way a positive.  The idea that I can't legally own a gun to defend myself is quite frustrating.  Like I said, I'm not offended, because there is always people that are going to lie for attention like you said, the only problem I have, is with your use of the word 'most.'  Your opinion serves as a good teaching tool for people that don't understand the problem with mental illness today.


well, then i'll amend that to "most people i know personally who claim it", instead of just "most people".


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## Folcro (May 5, 2013)

Well, there are certainly people who fake invisible illnesses for attention, and certainly those who legitimately have it. To discuss which is the case in an undefined, arbitrary scenario is often an avenue for little more than contemptible debate. As it pertains to society, I would need statistics. I have had problems with depression, OCD, and ADD (I think... doctors can be so nebulous in their diagnosis) and would wish none on anybody... though sometimes I wonder if there may be a connection to the problems I have had throughout my life, and the imagination I apply to written works I happen to be quite proud of?


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## alanmt (May 5, 2013)

*This is not a debate thread.  There are no debate threads on WF. I don't want to to see any further posts that challenge other member's viewpoints and experiences on this delicate subject.  If you think a post violates the rules, report it.  If it is merely an opinion that is different than yours, no matter how much you take issue with it, leave it alone.

I trust I have made myself clear on this.*


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## moderan (May 5, 2013)

...


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