# help with North eastern English dialect



## topcol (Jan 23, 2018)

My maternal great-grandmother was Durham born and bred. I've modelled one of my characters on her and her speech. I grew up in the New Forest, so I'd be grateful for comments on the following "dialectal" utterings by her and others.

a) if you're from the area, please feel free to correct if necessary but please remember she was born circa 1860.

b) If you aren't from the area or even from Britain, do you understand what is being said?

All help gratefully appreciated.

topcol

‘Ah reckon it’ll snaw tomorrow or the dee after, Bernard. Might be judishas fer yer to leave afore then.’
*
Philip grinned. ‘Aye, yer reet but that’s fer me an' yer cuzzin Sarah.’
*
‘Ah’ll be doon wi' me da in Feb'ry, niver fear on that count, bonny lad, so yer'd better not be messing wi' any o' yer local lasses.’
*
Flinging out her arm, she pointed a rigid forefinger at the stupefied blacksmith. ‘Robert Fox, ah wudn’t wed thee for all the bluddy tea in bluddy China! Now shift yer bluddy arse, yer pathetic excuse fer a human bein'! Howay, uncle John, man.’
*
As they drove away, Fox recovered his wits enough to roar, ’Ah’ll pay thee out, Cook, soom day ah’ll have thee!’
*
His bride laughed derisively. ‘He’s a soft boogah, no better’n a bairn. All talk is Rob Fox an’ ah shood knaa.’
*
 ‘Aye, well, ah can speak as well as thee, me canny hoosband.’ she replied,
*
Mary leaned over the side and held out two half-crowns. ‘Here, Edwin, gi' her these fer the bairn, poor wee mite.’
*
She laid a gentle hand on the woman’s head. ‘Oh Sal, hinny,’ she said softly, ‘How’ve yer coom ter this, pet?’
*
The man watched, licking scabbed lips. Mary turned her fiercest glare on him.
‘Ah knaa thee well, Davy Willis, as does every decent soul in Stockton. Ah’m gan ter spread the word and if ah hear that yer’ve drank the lot, ah’ll have thee in clink dubble quick, yer drink sodden polecat. Now get the lass and her bairn to the work’us. Me da’ll knaa if yer divn’t dee as ah say.’
*
 Mary took his face in both hands and kissed him full on the lips. ‘Yer a canny fella, Edwin, that was a grand thing yer did back there. Ah reckon yer’ve earnt yer wedding night.’


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## Phil Istine (Jan 24, 2018)

I'm in Sussex.  I could understand it all, but I had to read more slowly than usual.  I do visit Co. Durham occasionally as my sister and nephew live there, so I have been exposed to the dialect.  Also, I had a Geordie friend some time ago.  The spelling seemed fine for the dialect; I could hear the accent while I was reading.

A little humour:  Shortly after moving up there, my sister was watching the weather forecast on TV.  The forecaster was going on about "li'l skyti bits".  The next day at work she asked for a translation.  It was snow.


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## topcol (Jan 24, 2018)

Phil Istine said:


> I'm in Sussex.  I could understand it all, but I had to read more slowly than usual.  I do visit Co. Durham occasionally as my sister and nephew live there, so I have been exposed to the dialect.  Also, I had a Geordie friend some time ago.  The spelling seemed fine for the dialect; I could hear the accent while I was reading.
> 
> A little humour:  Shortly after moving up there, my sister was watching the weather forecast on TV.  The forecaster was going on about "li'l skyti bits".  The next day at work she asked for a translation.  It was snow.



Thanks a lot for that, Phil Istine (great name incidentally). That is a real relief. I'm now thinking of nicking your skyti bits expression if you don't mind, that is.

My first contact with Geordies was when I joined the RAF in 1960. Until then, I had thought Glaswegian was the most impenetrable dialect in the UK. I grew up in the New Forest and I was amazed when people told me they had trouble with the Hampshire accent.

After demob, I went back to the Forest. We had a Geordie at work and my colleagues could barely understand a word he said. He went back home for Christmas one year and his old mates told him he now spoke like a "soft soothern bastard." We all creased up when he told us.

topcol


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## Phil Istine (Jan 24, 2018)

topcol said:


> Thanks a lot for that, Phil Istine (great name incidentally). That is a real relief. I'm now thinking of nicking your skyti bits expression if you don't mind, that is.
> 
> My first contact with Geordies was when I joined the RAF in 1960. Until then, I had thought Glaswegian was the most impenetrable dialect in the UK. I grew up in the New Forest and I was amazed when people told me they had trouble with the Hampshire accent.
> 
> ...



Check the spelling on li'l skyti bits. I wrote from memory and only ever heard it spoken second hand.


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## Pete_C (Jan 24, 2018)

I would caution against writing phonetically. Very few people do it and pull it off well (Finnegan's Wake and Riddley Walker being two examples, but even then a good many readers were put off but it). If you want to convey the accent it is best done through phrasing. Remember that some readers won't know what a Geordie accent is, nor will they care. Writing phonetically will simply confuse them and make reading tiresome. The odds are if they've never heard a Geordie accent even a phonetic interpretation won't help them. I could read what you've written in a West Country accent or a Welsh accent and confuse the shit out of myself and others.

Of course, I have the advantage that the written word is based on the superior London accent, so it's all good at my end!


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## Jack of all trades (Jan 24, 2018)

James Herriot's book were very successful, and are still on the shelf of my local bookstore, so showing accents can work. I have no idea how accurate yours are, but just wanted to offer a word of encouragement for your undertaking.

My advice is to be consistent. However you choose to show how "I", for example, is spoken, keep it the same for that character throughout the book, unless there's good reason to do otherwise.

Good luck with this!


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## topcol (Jan 24, 2018)

Hi again, Phil Istine, I googled it and found only a few examples: "Outlook for the week, missley with some *skity bits*" and " the course was 95% runnable – just a few *skity bits* –", presumably snow or ice underfoot, both from north eastern media reports. Now I've also learned what "missley" means, "This was an out and out proper fell race and misty, *missley weather* added to an authentic mountain race".

Thanks again, Phil Istine

topcol


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## topcol (Jan 24, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> James Herriot's book were very successful, and are still on the shelf of my local bookstore, so showing accents can work. I have no idea how accurate yours are, but just wanted to offer a word of encouragement for your undertaking.
> 
> My advice is to be consistent. However you choose to show how "I", for example, is spoken, keep it the same for that character throughout the book, unless there's good reason to do otherwise.
> 
> ...



Hi, Jack of All Trades. Thanks for your helpful advice. I've read the entire set of the Herriot stories, loved them then and love them still. They give such an authentic picture of Yorkshire in the 50s and further back.

I only used the Durham accent/dialect in the first part of my novel as the character and her husband emigrate to France immediately following their wedding. She does have the odd lapse into Durham later on when receiving bad news or unexpected events, for example.

I was concerned that WF and other readers unfamiliar with Brit English dialects might be put off by it.

topcol


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## topcol (Jan 24, 2018)

Pete_C said:


> I would caution against writing phonetically. Very few people do it and pull it off well (Finnegan's Wake and Riddley Walker being two examples, but even then a good many readers were put off but it). If you want to convey the accent it is best done through phrasing. Remember that some readers won't know what a Geordie accent is, nor will they care. Writing phonetically will simply confuse them and make reading tiresome. The odds are if they've never heard a Geordie accent even a phonetic interpretation won't help them. I could read what you've written in a West Country accent or a Welsh accent and confuse the shit out of myself and others.
> 
> Of course, I have the advantage that the written word is based on the superior London accent, so it's all good at my end!



Hi, Pete_C, thanks for the comments. The examples I gave occur only at the very beginning of the novel. The speaker had to learn to speak "genteelly" at her boarding school and used that type of speech after her marriage as the couple emigrated to France immediately afterwards.

I wanted to reinforce the image of her as a strong-minded independent young woman rather than as a Middle Class educated woman of the Jane Austen ilk.

topcol

topcol


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## Matchu (Feb 15, 2018)

Hello Topcol,

I think you're taking a risk writing it all phonetically.  I'd use a softer brush.  Not that it can't be done - see the G M Frazers [Flashman] book about the County Durham soldiers.

‘I reckon it’ll snaw tomorrow or the day after, Bernard. Might be judiciousness for you  to leave afore then.’
*
Philip grinned. ‘Aye, you're reet but that’s for me an' your cousin Sarah.’
*

Otherwise, you're directing the eye too much.  

Eye mite ass wel wright lyke thes? An thad's inn meye perfikt reeceev'd prunownsyashun.

...

As it stands you're verging on pastiche...


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## topcol (Feb 16, 2018)

I think you're taking a risk writing it all phonetically. I'd use a softer brush. Not that it can't be done - see the G M Frazers [Flashman] book about the County Durham soldiers.
_
Hi Matchu, thanks for your comments. We’re all aspiring writers and risk is part of the whole process of creating stories. The setting is the north east of England in 1888 and the Armstrongs are in their home county.  I wanted to enhance the well-known Geordie individuality, especially that of young Mary. I didn’t want her coming across as a genteel young lady of the Jane Austen or Mrs Gaskell type. _
_The Bronte sisters,Tennyson, Kipling, Dickens, George Eliot et al occasionally wrote regional pronunciation more or less phonetically so I’m just emulating them._
_Besides, it only occurs in the speech of Mary, her father Philip and Rob Fox in the first chapter. Immediately after her wedding, Mary has to speak French daily. As a result, she begins to speak English in the style she was taught at her boarding school. Philip plays no further part in the story and Rob Fox only appears a couple of times afterwards and then only to utter a couple of sentences. 
_
‘I reckon it’ll snaw tomorrow or the day after, Bernard. Might be judiciousness for you to leave afore then.’  _‘judiciousness’ is a noun. The adjective ‘judicious’ has to follow the verb ‘to be’ in this context._
*
Philip grinned. ‘Aye, you're reet but that’s for me an' your cousin Sarah.’ _Why the substitution? ‘cuzzin’ isn’t hard for any English speaker to pronounce, surely_.
*
Otherwise, you're directing the eye too much. 

Eye mite ass wel wright lyke thes? An thad's inn meye perfikt reeceev'd prunownsyashun.
_I think you mean ‘pronUNsyayshun’. Pronouncing ‘pronunciation’ to agree with the spelling of ‘pronounce’ is a common error nowadays but is an error nonetheless._
_Your ‘phonetic’ sentence is merely bad spelling à la ‘Just William’. There is already a very useful international phonetic alphabet (IPA). George Bernard Shaw tried to go down this road but got lost after he invented the word ‘ghoti’as a ‘logical’ alternative to the spelling of the word ‘fish’.  _
_Received Pronunciation is a non-accent deriving from the manner in which the English so-called educated classes spoke after receiving their education from private tutors at home then preparatory school followed by Public School and finally polishing their speech with 2 or 3 years at Oxbridge. It has no historical connection  with any British or Irish region._
_Nowadays, the London or Estuarian accent as it is now officially known, (It is NOT a dialect) has completely replaced the local dialects and accents of the entire south east of our country, a great loss to traditional English culture. Many people confuse accent with dialect but accent is a contributory element of dialect, both deriving from the history a particular region. 

All the best,
topcol_


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