# Some Possible Reasons why my Writing Sucks



## lumino (Oct 27, 2018)

This doesn't really have the form of an essay but I still consider it a work of non-fiction. I would like constructive criticism as well as comments on what it says.



> Throughout my life, in which I tried to write like a professional, and in which I tried to emulate the prose styles found in the King James Bible, I was told by many that my words were wordy, awkward, clunky, etc, who advised me to take basic instruction in English. But in several instances, in which I had the necessity to write, or in which I felt a strong desire to do so, I was able to author things that many praised, chief of which is one letter written by me some years ago, a letter of clarity, figures, and cadence, which I posted on another site about writing, praised by those who read the work, and recognized by them as poetic.
> 
> It seems, therefore, that no faulty command of language stands in the way of my goals, though I could certainly gain so much more of it, but my tendency to neglect to write in a way that is both proper and clear, in an effort to form words that flow with rhythm. For I came to conclude when looking at language that the plainest of words could not have rhythm, and therefore abandoned the caution to write my prose with them.
> 
> ...


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## Plasticweld (Oct 27, 2018)

That is an easy answer. You say that your writings resemble that of the King James version of the Bible.  The original text is in Hebrew and then translated to Greek.  To truly master the message and the words you need to have a foundation in both. I would suggest getting a Strongs Concordance to go back and research the passages that you are interested in. It will  be invaluable to getting a better idea of the flow of the language and a much clearer understanding standing of the original intent.


It is almost impossible to take any form of poetry and translate it to another language.  While you make get a drift of what the author is trying to say you will miss most of the subtle references they are making. This is where understanding the message is more important the regurgitation the words.

Reading some of your work you have failed to connect with the reader.  This is because you have failed to create any form of empathy with them.  Christ took the old testament and retold many of the stories in parable form, to make the points clear to a newer generation.  If you are to do the same thing, pass on a message then it needs to be in the context that this generation understands.  Christ today would reference Facebook, the internet, cell phones, mass media. It would all be wrapped in tangible things that people of today could relate to; fifty years ago he would have used a different set of references that generation would have related to.  This is the aspect of your writing that seems to be missing. Share what you feel and why so that a casual reader would say, "I have felt this way, I have said those things."  The art of writing is to convey a thought, to let the reader into your mind and mindset.


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## lumino (Oct 27, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> That is an easy answer. You say that your writings resemble that of the King James version of the Bible.  The original text is in Hebrew and then translated to Greek.  To truly master the message and the words you need to have a foundation in both. I would suggest getting a Strongs Concordance to go back and research the passages that you are interested in. It will  be invaluable to getting a better idea of the flow of the language and a much clearer understanding standing of the original intent.
> 
> 
> It is almost impossible to take any form of poetry and translate it to another language.  While you make get a drift of what the author is trying to say you will miss most of the subtle references they are making. This is where understanding the message is more important the regurgitation the words.
> ...



Can you elaborate more on creating empathy with the reader?

Also, I don't really like concepts such as social media. I use it, but I don't find things related to it very interesting.

Also, I never meant to say that my prose resembles that of the KJV, because when I do try to make it resembles the KJV, I mostly fail. Emulating the prose style of the KJV is just something I would like to do, not something that I can claim I have succeeded at.


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## Plasticweld (Oct 27, 2018)

Empathy is the key to good writing.  While the reader is trying to get into the mind of the writer, the writer must speak in words and in images that the reader can identify with. 

Today you can say, " I had a great day on the forum, I got 5 likes for a story I wrote and some great feedback."    Ten plus years ago that sentence would have made no sense.  Today any writer can identify with the method of acceptance and in the form it was given. 

Our language is no more than the art of communication.  Good writers have a knack for clean sentences that let the reader know the location, the site and sounds of what is going on.  Our descriptions let them feel like they are part of the story. You need to be able to speak the same language as the reader you are writing for.  Someone who writes young adult or horror or sci-fi will speak in the lingo of his readers.  There has to be a connection between the two of you.  When you are scared or un-certain the reader has to understand why.   There are good stories and there are well written stories.  A good story suffers a poor writer, a poor story told by a great writer is still often...a good story.  

Write a story about something in your life, any given event that made a mark. If you wish to become a better writer start out with a story that is both interesting to you and any reader.  Here on the forum there are many gifted writers than can help you do a better job of telling the story, what they can't do is come up with the original story.  Write what you know, ask for help to make it read better.  The first step here is the story.


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## lumino (Oct 27, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> Empathy is the key to good writing.  While the reader is trying to get into the mind of the writer, the writer must speak in words and in images that the reader can identify with.
> 
> Today you can say, " I had a great day on the forum, I got 5 likes for a story I wrote and some great feedback."    Ten plus years ago that sentence would have made no sense.  Today any writer can identify with the method of acceptance and in the form it was given.
> 
> ...



But what about cadence? Can you write clean sentences that the reader can understand which also have cadence? And does every sentence need to be in the most concise form possible? What do you mean by clean sentences? Also, I am not sure why a piece of writing needs modern references for the reader to understand it, especially those related to a small part of daily life.

Also, I prefer not to depend on others to make my writing sound good. My goal is to become skilled enough that I don't need help from other people. I guess you mean that others can help me with the fundamentals of story telling and style.

Also, when treating a subject, why do I have to use personal stories?

Also, you did not critique the piece that I posted in the OP. Can you provide some feedback on it?


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## lumino (Oct 27, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> Empathy is the key to good writing.  While the reader is trying to get into the mind of the writer, the writer must speak in words and in images that the reader can identify with.
> 
> Today you can say, " I had a great day on the forum, I got 5 likes for a story I wrote and some great feedback."    Ten plus years ago that sentence would have made no sense.  Today any writer can identify with the method of acceptance and in the form it was given.
> 
> ...



Can I say instead: "My day on the forum was great. For a story I wrote I got five likes and also excellent feedback."?


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 27, 2018)

I am not going to do the whole thing, but I will give you a crit on the first bit.

Throughout my life, in which I tried to write like a professional, and in which I tried to emulate the prose styles found in the King James Bible, I was told by many that my words were wordy, awkward, clunky, etc, who advised me to take basic instruction in English. But in several instances, in which I had the necessity to write, or in which I felt a strong desire to do so, I was able to author things that many praised, chief of which is one letter written by me some years ago, a letter of clarity, figures, and cadence, which I posted on another site about writing, praised by those who read the work, and recognized by them as poetic.

First off distinguish paragraph and sentence? Both are ways of containing a concept, the sentence is a shorter, more compact concept, let's get rid of some surplus words and strip it down to the concepts.
I tried to write like a professional, to emulate the style of the King James Bible. I was told (it was) awkward, clunky, etc, and advised to take basic instruction in English. But in several instances (of) necessity, or desire, I (wrote) things praised as poetic.

I put in two words (bracketed) to make it grammatical, and one to make it slightly simpler and shorter, but basically that is what you were driving at; in your words, but without the extras, notice it makes three sentences. If you wanted to mention the letter that would make a good extra sentence on the end "One of these was a letter..."

I can't help but feel the comment about taking basic instruction was unkind, needless, and unhelpful.

If you ever read 'Elements of style' you will see one of the basics is to avoid excess words, keep things short and simple. Poetry is usually defined in some way which describes it as a condensed form of words, or even concepts, things do not become poetic when they are elaborated, they simply become elaborate, and elaborate usually means less clear.

To add colour to your writing don't simply add words or use unusual words, try rhetorical devices like metaphor or simile, they come from oratory, but lots adapt well to writing. You can find them listed in 'The forest of rhetoric' website. A clue to how useful they are to what you want to do, that website is hosted by the Brigham Young University, the university belonging to the Mormons, one of the fastest growing religions, rhetoric works, verbosity mostly doesn't.


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## lumino (Oct 27, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> I am not going to do the whole thing, but I will give you a crit on the first bit.
> First off distinguish paragraph and sentence? Both are ways of containing a concept, the sentence is a shorter, more compact concept, let's get rid of some surplus words and strip it down to the concepts.
> I tried to write like a professional, to emulate the style of the King James Bible. I was told (it was) awkward, clunky, etc, and advised to take basic instruction in English. But in several instances (of) necessity, or desire, I (wrote) things praised as poetic.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the advice. I want my sentences to be sophisticated though, and I want them to flow with a poetic cadence. Can you word things the way you advised without using all short sentences. Can you word them the way you advised while also giving them a poetic cadence? I don't really like prose that uses all short, simple sentences. And while I tend to read plain prose for information, I prefer the kind of prose that flows with cadence.


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 28, 2018)

I am not really sesquipedalian, he said in a sesquipedalian way. 'Poetic cadence' describes the pitch of the voice as it rises and falls during an oral rendition of a written piece. It may be implicit in some writing, but is part of the reader's art rather than the writer's. Plain prose, or simple poetry, can be read with cadence, when I was a teenager we used to creep up on to the stairs to listen to my friend's father reading Thomas the Tank engine, he put so much cadence and expression into it.

I don't think that what you are saying is exactly what you mean. It may be that what you want is to be pretentious, I hope not. On the other hand perhaps you wish to write prose in a poetic form, in which case a study of spondees, iambs, anapaests and the rest, or of blank verse, may help. 

"That phrase again, it has a dying fall, like bees upon a bank of violets both giving and receiving, enough, no more, 'tis not so sweet now as it was before"

Quoting from memory, but that is Shakespeare using blank verse to describe cadence in music, is that the sort of thing you mean? See what I mean about the simile giving colour to it, mind, it is not easy to be as original as 'like bees upon a bank of violets ...'


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## lumino (Oct 28, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> I am not really sesquipedalian, he said in a sesquipedalian way. 'Poetic cadence' describes the pitch of the voice as it rises and falls during an oral rendition of a written piece. It may be implicit in some writing, but is part of the reader's art rather than the writer's. Plain prose, or simple poetry, can be read with cadence, when I was a teenager we used to creep up on to the stairs to listen to my friend's father reading Thomas the Tank engine, he put so much cadence and expression into it.
> 
> I don't think that what you are saying is exactly what you mean. It may be that what you want is to be pretentious, I hope not. On the other hand perhaps you wish to write prose in a poetic form, in which case a study of spondees, iambs, anapaests and the rest, or of blank verse, may help.
> 
> ...



I don't mean pretentiousness, but a poetic form, albeit not as rigid as meter. The King James Bible is one example; some prose by Sir Thomas Browne might be another, but I am not sure about how much of it.

For instance, several years ago I wrote a piece with this sentence: "For you were a princess in a land of suitors, a star in the midst of worlds....". I consider that to have poetic form. That's what I mean by cadence. We seem to be using different terminology but we seem to be referring to the same thing.

I want my prose to have both poetic form and sophistication, without being seen as pretentious or wordy. You cut down my paragraph into short, simple sentence, and while I admit that my paragraph was wordy, I did not like the version with the short sentences. Modern translations of the Bible tend to use short, simple sentences, which lack all the grace contained in the KJV. Some people might argue that eloquence of the KJV is simplicity, but though that be true, it nonetheless has sophisticated sentence structure in many places.

Similes and metaphors are things I would like to use, but I am more concerned about mastering poetic form. I can write in meter believe it or not, but for a while I have had trouble writing in a poetic prose form, which is more free when it comes to metrical structure. I have succeeded in doing so in the past, however.

So my goal is to write prose in poetic rhythm, albeit not one as regular as meter.


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## Olly Buckle (Oct 29, 2018)

> First off distinguish paragraph and sentence? Both are ways of containing a concept, the sentence is a shorter, more compact concept, let's get rid of some surplus words and strip it down to the concepts.
> I tried to write like a professional, to emulate the style of the King James Bible. I was told (it was) awkward, clunky, etc, and advised to take basic instruction in English. But in several instances (of) necessity, or desire, I (wrote) things praised as poetic.
> 
> I put in two words (bracketed) to make it grammatical, and one to make it slightly simpler and shorter, but basically that is what you were driving at; in your words, but without the extras, notice it makes three sentences. If you wanted to mention the letter that would make a good extra sentence on the end "One of these was a letter..."


Sorry, a misconception there I think, I was not suggesting this as the final form, the idea was to strip it down to the essential ideas, then you can better decide how you are going to express them. For example, you can decide which are the most important bits and construct things so you emphasise them. As for the language, well that is really the independent bit, where the author shows themselves. I can't see how I can tell you how to write what you want to write, only how to set yourself up to be able to see what it is more clearly, if you know the bare facts and who you want to communicate them to that should make it easier than a vague wish to write something poetic. Poetic writing doesn't simply happen, the notebooks of poets show that they often worked on things for many months, adapting and improving, sometimes for years. I'm not suggesting you spend that long, but I always find editing things is a longer process than the initial writing, juggling words about to get the right one in the right place.


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## Jack of all trades (Oct 30, 2018)

The purpose of writing is to convey something, information, an event or a story. 

All the cadence, rhythm, rhyme, sophistication, etc will not compensate for the lack of a message.

Start with the message. Make sure it's clear. 

Then polish it. That's when to focus on word selection, etc.

It seems to me that your primary problem is trying to hang the wallpaper before the walls are in place.


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## EdgarMair (Nov 22, 2018)

I'm not the one who can give a valuable advice on essay writing. What I can say that I did read it and I liked it.  When I need to write an essay I google "hints and tips on essay writing" so if you have done it on your own it is already great.


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## Horsey (Nov 27, 2018)

I would argue that you should stop trying to write a certain way, and write whatever way feels most natural to you. Don't write like the KJB, write like yourself.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


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