# should i become a writer for hire{no literally}



## kunox

basically I have come to an fork in the road in my life and I think I've come up with a solution. the problem being how to become  well known writer when I can't get my stuff edited. the solution being is charge people to write stories{just as long as I charge enough to get that story edited plus some of mine. I mean I've looked arund and there are people charging three hundred ffty do0loers for fifteen page and i think I cna deal with that because I am a good writer{or so I've beeen told by anyone whos dared to loook at my books.} what do you guys think. do you think $350 for fifteen pages is fair.any other advice.

thank you for you're time.


----------



## shadowwalker

I have no idea what you're asking about. Do you want to hire an editor or do you want to become an editor? If the former, a lot of self-publishers do this (and I imagine others as well). If the latter - based on your post, I don't think that's going to work.


----------



## WriterJohnB

You're apparently talking about ghostwriting. I ghostwrite and freelance edit on a site called e-lance. http://www.elance.com You might want to go there and check it out, because there are a lot of writers who will charge a whole lot less than $350 for 15 pages. There are people there with a lot of experience and credentials (English professors and the like who are moonlighting for a little extra money) and the bidding is cut-throat. Not to be critical, but your post is riddled with typos. Who would hire a writer on the basis of what you wrote? I make sure to proofread EVERYTHING I write, even a forum post. When I ghostwrite a story for someone, it's thoroughly self-edited before it goes to the client.

Just to give you an idea of how to shoot yourself in the foot before the race has even started, here's a profile-pitch from one person looking to be hired as a writer.

*I’m a freelance writer with a passion for writing, i proof-read all my own work as well as acedemic articles by several other writers, I Have also done some proof -reading for technical articles and advertising for a local electronics company. I have some experience with article writing incuding advertising and local news. I have an excellent grasp of the English language including punctuation, grammarand sentence forming. I admit I am a bit of a perfectionist but can offer dedication to any project and will focus and complete work to the best of my ability Although I am a rookie. I have 10 years freelancing experience.*

or this one:

I'm an efficient worker, can handle deadlines without loosing on quality,
Thank you for this oppourtunity. 


I copied and pasted these from actual contracting sites and both of these are US based, native English speakers, apparently.


It's not enough that your friends say you're a good writer, you need to hone your craft until your writing shines. 

Don't mean to be blunt, but I believe in giving my honest opinion.

Take care,

JohnB


----------



## SouthernRiver4

WriterJohnB said:


> You're apparently talking about ghostwriting. I ghostwrite and freelance edit on a site called e-lance. http://www.elance.com You might want to go there and check it out, because there are a lot of writers who will charge a whole lot less than $350 for 15 pages. There are people there with a lot of experience and credentials (English professors and the like who are moonlighting for a little extra money) and the bidding is cut-throat. Not to be critical, but your post is riddled with typos. Who would hire a writer on the basis of what you wrote? I make sure to proofread EVERYTHING I write, even a forum post. When I ghostwrite a story for someone, it's thoroughly self-edited before it goes to the client.
> 
> Just to give you an idea of how to shoot yourself in the foot before the race has even started, here's a profile-pitch from one person looking to be hired as a writer.
> 
> *I’m a freelance writer with a passion for writing, i proof-read all my own work as well as acedemic articles by several other writers, I Have also done some proof -reading for technical articles and advertising for a local electronics company. I have some experience with article writing incuding advertising and local news. I have an excellent grasp of the English language including punctuation, grammarand sentence forming. I admit I am a bit of a perfectionist but can offer dedication to any project and will focus and complete work to the best of my ability Although I am a rookie. I have 10 years freelancing experience.*
> 
> or this one:
> 
> I'm an efficient worker, can handle deadlines without loosing on quality,
> Thank you for this oppourtunity.
> 
> 
> I copied and pasted these from actual contracting sites and both of these are US based, native English speakers, apparently.
> 
> 
> It's not enough that your friends say you're a good writer, you need to hone your craft until your writing shines.
> 
> Don't mean to be blunt, but I believe in giving my honest opinion.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> JohnB



Honestly, I read your post and I couldn't help but smile.

You're absolutely right, John. I don't think you were being too blunt. If someone is going to become an editor, then they should probably have the skills necessary to do so, yes? I mean, you wouldn't let an eleven-year-old with no prior knowledge of Neurosurgery operate on you, would you? The principle is the same here; the original post showed a complete disregard for proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar. More than that, it left many people wondering what the original poster was actually talking about.

In my opinion, with the endless amount of resources on the internet about properly formatting manuscripts, character development, and even YouTube videos about the rules of basic English, there is no reason that anyone should struggle so with typing properly.

Original Poster, 

Please realize that my above statements are statements of opinion and are not directly pointed at you, but rather generalized to anyone who thinks that half-assedly typing is acceptable. Perhaps you were just lazy and decided not to type properly because _it's only a forum _or _you'll save the proper typing for when you actually need it. _But no matter the case, you should always practice typing (or writing) in complete sentences, using proper punctuation, and using proper grammar. It keeps you in practice so that if you ever *do *have to edit or review something (provided that is what your original post was talking about), that you are sharp and prepared to review and edit thoroughly and accurately.

If you have any questions about properly structuring any form of writing, be it technical, poetry, fiction, or even essay, then you've come to the right place.

And if it seems that myself and others are berating you for having poor grammar and punctuation, it's only because you've come to us looking to pursue some sort of career in writing, and if you wish to be successful, then these skills are vital. We are only trying to help.

Good luck and many cheers,
-Zachary E.


----------



## kunox

thanks to all of you but to be honest I was basing my pricing off a website called custom erotic source{an adult website so warning} but I also was thinking about paying a professional editor for the time being. I am rally good at anime-esk stories mainly because hats what I have been into since I was five.  i hope to get my book out by doing others stories so I need to charge at least enough to edit my novel as well as the short story I will be working on.

p.s. you guys are greatly appreciated. also my typing is horrible.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

*"T*hanks to all of you*,* but to be honest I was basing my pricing off a  website called *Custom Erotic Source *(an adult website, so *fair *warning). But*,* I  also was thinking about paying a professional editor for the time being.  I am r*e*ally good at anime-es*c* stories mainly because *t*hat*'*s what I have  been into since I was five. *I* hope to get my book out by doing other* people's*  stories*,* so I need to charge at least enough to edit my novel*,* as well as  the short story I will be working on.

*P.S.* *Y*ou guys are greatly appreciated*;* also my typing is horrible."

There, I have taken the time to edit the last post you just made. 

As you can see, there were several very quick fixes that were easy to do. And even easier if you had just done them in the first place. (Outside of poor grammatical structure)

It really is not that hard to use punctuation (, . ! ; - " ')

Key things to remember: 


The first letter of every word that starts a new sentence is capitalized
Any time you use "I" in reference to yourself ("I went to the park" or "There was something in that food that I was allergic to"), you will always capitalize the "I".

This stuff is not hard, and it will make your editor's life a whole lot easier if you could just do the simple stuff to begin with.


----------



## kunox

I am slowly learning and have gotten five kindle books on the subject just so I can improve.

BTW; thank you


----------



## Trilby

Sorry, but I don't think that your writing is up to par to charge to edit a ms.


----------



## kunox

sorry I've done made up my mind....


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> sorry I've done made up my mind....



I'm sorry, but that was an absolute eyesore. 

I tried to read, and it was so hard to follow as there was no decent flow, that I closed it and have no plans of returning.

If I closed it, others will too. You have basically given them a stunning example of how your editing can be detrimental to their writing. 

It's clear that you harbor no real desire to improve your writing, therefore you will receive no further help or advice from me.

Good luck on your future endeavors.


----------



## moderan

kunox said:


> basically I have come to an fork in the road in my life and I think I've come up with a solution. the problem being how to become  well known writer when I can't get my stuff edited. the solution being is charge people to write stories{just as long as I charge enough to get that story edited plus some of mine. I mean I've looked arund and there are people charging three hundred ffty do0loers for fifteen page and i think I cna deal with that because I am a good writer{or so I've beeen told by anyone whos dared to loook at my books.} what do you guys think. do you think $350 for fifteen pages is fair.any other advice.
> 
> thank you for you're time.


This should be in the "bad writing" thread.


----------



## Jon M

In addition to what Moderan has said, I wonder if this qualifies as a scam thread. Rather obvious the OP just intends to take people's cash, with absolutely no regard for the quality of his services.


----------



## Lewdog

I'm going to start selling a web cooking show that every meal involves Top Ramen noodles in some fashion.


----------



## Thenim75

OT: Top Ramen tastes great... in small quantities.

I wanted to give some constructive criticism as well... but I believe SouthernRiver4's statements are more than enough to express what's inside my mind.:icon_cyclops_ani:


----------



## SouthernRiver4

Thenim75 said:


> OT: Top Ramen tastes great... in small quantities.
> 
> I wanted to give some constructive criticism as well... but I believe SouthernRiver4's statements are more than enough to express what's inside my mind.:icon_cyclops_ani:



Well, I'm glad someone has benefited from my critique.


----------



## Bloggsworth

To be brutally honest, after reading your initial post, I wouldn't employ you to write a shopping list. If you can't be bothered to re-read and edit your own posts what makes you think that anyone would pay you to write?


----------



## shadowwalker

I looked at your website - hon, take it down. Quickly. No author in their right mind would hire someone with so little skill. Write more, do some crits (which will also teach you how to crit/edit your own writing), put some stuff up for crit - in other words, work at it. Learn it. Practice it. Accept that this is something that not only takes time but tremendous effort.


----------



## JosephB

Oh, the joy of writing sites and what they can provide in the way of accidental entertainment value. You just can't make stuff like this up.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

shadowwalker said:


> I looked at your website - hon, take it down. Quickly. No author in their right mind would hire someone with so little skill. Write more, do some crits (which will also teach you how to crit/edit your own writing), put some stuff up for crit - in other words, work at it. Learn it. Practice it. Accept that this is something that not only takes time but tremendous effort.



I would definitely be inclined to agree with you, however, the original poster has clearly shown that she has no desire to practice and put for the tremendous effort. I'm not sure why the poster's attitude irks me so--perhaps it's by the sheer fact of acting like, with her sub-par writing skills, she can come in and do a skill that most people here have been honing for years and think she is at the top of the game. But knowing that I'm not the only person here who takes this harshly is almost comforting. 

Yes Original Poster, these skills take time. And if you're not willing to put forth the effort to learn first, and dive right in to a game that you don't know how to play, then you really should consider a career on the COMPLETELY other end of the spectrum.


----------



## WriterJohnB

According to the profile page, Kunox is male. I'll not be adding any more posts to this thread; he has made his mind up. As the motto on his homepage says, awesomeness in just one step away. He must be standing at the base of a cliff.


----------



## JosephB

I don't really get the point of trying to give advice to people who seem determined to ignore it. There's a really great way to learn -- and that's by trying things and failing. I know folks mean well, but I'm far more inclined to just let people learn from their mistakes.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

JosephB said:


> I don't really get the point of trying to give advice to people who seem determined to ignore it. There's a really great way to learn -- and that's by trying things and failing. I know folks mean well, but I'm far more inclined to just let people learn from their mistakes.



Following John's cue, I will no longer be posting here. Out of sight, out of mind.


----------



## J Anfinson

This is why I have a policy of not charging for anything I write, as of yet. I know perfectly well that I've got miles to go before I should even think about putting a price on anything. People like this make other newbs like me look bad.


----------



## Trilby

Let's get this clear, from what I can gather so far... you are thinking of charging to edit other writers' manuscripts to pay someone else to edit your own writing!


----------



## moderan

Milo Minderbinder?


----------



## kunox

actually now you guys are just being rude.. I care about quality and i am able to give it. so I think you guys need to get some respect. plus like I said I have at least three editors now. and they have been in the business for years. one of them tells me i have a great talent and as for you southern river. you where only willing to help me as long as I did exactly what you said. how rude. besides that I am not angry I just expected better out of you guys.


----------



## kunox

I just got where you guys are going wrong....

you think I want to be an editor.... well no!!!!
I am going to be a ghost writer... and I am paying editors to help me out.


----------



## moderan

You haven't a ghost of a chance. Truth isn't rude. Some of us in this thread have done ghostwriting work. You show no evidence of being remotely capable of doing that work on a professional basis.
Earn your respect.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> actually now you guys are just being rude.. I care about quality and i am able to give it. so I think you guys need to get some respect. plus like I said I have at least three editors now. and they have been in the business for years. one of them tells me i have a great talent and as for you southern river. you where only willing to help me as long as I did exactly what you said. how rude. besides that I am not angry I just expected better out of you guys.



Respect is earned, not owed you.

And, no Kunox, it's not a case of me wanting you to do exactly what I tell you to do. What I was telling you to do are basic rules of English and grammar and if you ever hope to succeed in writing, then you will need to know those rules. Anyone will tell you _exactly _what I told you.

Do not come on and preach about respect and how it's owed to you, when the fact of the matter is, you came to us looking for help and then you completely contradict any advice we try to give you. How respectful is that? So, let's not play the respect game with me or any of the senior writing staff here on the forums. It will make you no friends, especially when you are in the wrong.

I keep getting drawn into this thread, and unfortunately I just can't keep my mouth shut.


----------



## Bloggsworth

*I care about quality and i am able to give it *- Says it all really. Nobody is being rude; you give us a sentence about your dedication to quality which includes the personal pronoun in lower case.


----------



## Foxee

kunox said:


> actually now you guys are just being rude.. I care about quality and i am able to give it. so I think you guys need to get some respect. plus like I said I have at least three editors now. and they have been in the business for years. one of them tells me i have a great talent and as for you southern river. you where only willing to help me as long as I did exactly what you said. how rude. besides that I am not angry I just expected better out of you guys.


kunox, if I suddenly one day decided to be a car mechanic I would need to know how cars work and I'd need to spend some time properly taking them apart and putting them together. I'd probably need some expert teaching and advice so that I didn't screw people's cars up. If I went ahead with only the knowledge that I have right now and put up a website promising that I could fix cars better than anyone, it would be false advertising.

The advice you're getting is fair and if people aren't taking you very seriously there is a reason for that. You've already proven that you can't give quality, none of your posts is capitalized or punctuated properly, that is no different than me saying that I can fix a car engine using only a hammer. Give the writers here something TO respect and we most certainly will do that.

Your reaction to Southern River causes me to be very skeptical about your supposed editors. If you're working with at least three experienced editors then you should know how to accept edits. You'll need to show a willingness to learn if you'd like to even get a start on being respected as a writer.

I'm not telling you this to upset you (though I am willing to if it will help) but to speak plainly about what will be required if you'd like to meet your goal.


----------



## kunox

basically I know respect is earned but you guys don't listen apparently{btw this is the last post I am making on this.} actually I don't think you guys realize you're not the only ones giving me advice. so don't think I just did the opposite of what you said just because i could. lastly I get you need to put out a good product but then there's that hole trap of not putting out any product.. at all!!! in other words.  how to get the experience when no one will hire you to gain it. plus I have completed a novel. so bla. It just needs to be edited  and I am not only using the money I get to edit the stories I write for other people but my work as well.


----------



## shadowwalker

It's not rude to tell someone what they need to hear versus what they want to hear. If you can't edit your own work, you cannot be a ghostwriter - unless you intend to spend your own money paying editors to edit your ghostwriting. If you can't understand this fundamental problem, there is no point in offering further advice or opinions.


----------



## kunox

that's it. I'm done here..... you really don't listen. I really tried to be nice but you sem to have mistaken spelling and grammer for ability to provide quality content. spelling and grammar are fixable. stupid is forever.to periphrases a quote from the great Ron white. and no I am not directing this stablemen at any of you.


----------



## moderan

Spelling and grammar _are_ the quality content one provides as a writer. One cannot get one's tremendous ideas across without them. Clearly you are an incapable communicator if so very many people have understood you.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> that's it. I'm don here..... you really don't listen. I really tried to be nice but you sem to have mistaken spelling and grammer for ability to provide quality content. spelling and grammar are fixable. stupid is forever.to periphrases a quote from the great Ron white. and no I am not directing this stablemen at any of you.



Your closing argument is a Ron White quote? Seriously? Ron White? 

You have officially just put yourself at the bottom of my list. Congratulations.


----------



## Foxee

kunox said:


> basically I know respect is earned but you guys don't listen apparently


The one not listening is sitting in your chair.

Hey, we tried.


----------



## moderan

I find myself wondering now how many "last posts" will be posted.
Joe's right, this is entertainment one can't get anywhere else. Thanks, Kunox. You're the best since those two Chinese kids were trying to write the world's greatest science fiction novel without any grounding in the sciences or any knowledge of the art of writing. I applaud you.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

moderan said:


> I find myself wondering now how many "last posts" will be posted.
> Joe's right, this is entertainment one can't get anywhere else. Thanks, Kunox. You're the best since those two Chinese kids were trying to write the world's greatest science fiction novel without any grounding in the sciences or any knowledge of the art of writing. I applaud you.



Please tell me that that whole thread was archived somewhere. I gotta read this.


----------



## Foxee

kunox said:


> basically I know respect is earned but you guys don't listen apparently{btw this is the last post I am making on this.} actually I don't think you guys realize you're not the only ones giving me advice. so don't think I just did the opposite of what you said just because i could. lastly I get you need to put out a good product but then there's that *hole trap* of not putting out any product.. at all!!! in other words.  how to get the experience when no one will hire you to gain it. plus I have completed a novel. so bla. It just needs to be edited  and I am not only using the money I get to edit the stories I write for other people but my work as well.


I would really, really love it if you would apply yourself to learning about writing craft, marketing, and publishing then come back and read this.

I hate hole traps, they're the pits.


----------



## Rustgold

kunox said:


> *basically (cap) *I have come to an fork in the road *in (of)* my life and I *think (believe is better)* I've come up with a solution. *the (cap)* problem being how to become *(a)* well known writer when I can't get my stuff edited. *the (cap)* solution *being is charge people (is charging people - or several different correction options)* to write stories{just as long as I charge enough to get that story edited *plus some of mine (I'm guessing profit)*. I mean I've looked *arund (around)* and there are people charging three hundred *ffty do0loers (spelling) *for fifteen page and *i *think I *cna (ditto) *deal with that because *I am (I'm)* a *good (decent is better)* writer{or so I've beeen told by anyone *whos* dared to *loook *at my books.} *what* do you guys *think. (?) do *you think $350 for fifteen pages is *fair.any* other advice.
> 
> *thank* you for you're time.


A quickest of looks at your plug.  I believe this says it all.  And I wouldn't even dream of doing what you're claiming to be capable of (well maybe dream, but not a highly rated dream).
Maybe working on improving your writing will be more advantageous, or focus on storywriting.


----------



## Sam

kunox said:


> that's it. I'm done here..... you really don't listen. I really tried to be nice but you sem to have mistaken spelling and grammer for ability to provide quality content. spelling and grammar are fixable. stupid is forever.to periphrases a quote from the great Ron white. and no I am not directing this stablemen at any of you.



I have to ask this. Is English your first language? 

Seeing as you've pooh-poohed all advice hitherto, let me ask another question. This 'fixable' spelling and grammar: who will be doing the fixing? If you have this notion that an agent or publishing house will see 'quality content' beyond incomprehensible grammar, it would serve you well to dismiss it at once. SPag is every bit as important as content. If you submit a manuscript to a publisher, written with your command of grammar as it is now, it will be binned on principle. 

That is not being rude or harsh; it is simply reality. Whether you choose to accept it is your decision.


----------



## J Anfinson

Since when do we require payment to learn something? I learn both as I write short stories, and as I get reviews on the few I've self-published...for free. Expecting people to start paying you before you've even gotten down the basics of grammar is arrogant. Expecting others to do all your editing is lazy. I doubt any agent or publisher would even respond to your query letter, if your grammar is this bad throughout your novel.

Learn the basics, take critism with a smile, and remember that you're only one of a million trying to get their foot in the door.

Pride is a great thing, but not when it makes you blind to quality.


----------



## Kyle R

Woops! I think you guys missed his intentions, which are stated on his webpage (although, I admit, I had to decipher them quite a bit from the writing mistakes).

He knows he needs editing. But he feels he is a good storyteller.

He is charging fifteen dollars a page (yow!) to be a ghostwriter for anyone who desires one. The cost of his services also includes editing, which he will not be doing. (He will be using part of the fee to hire an editor for his ghostwriting).

The extra money he makes, he wants to use so he can hire an editor to correct the mistakes in his novel.


:encouragement:


----------



## Hemlock

I never thought I had to do this but...
>periphrases.

From the context alone I believe you meant _paraphrase_.:cold:




KyleColorado said:


> Woops! I think you guys missed his intentions, which are stated on his webpage (although, I admit, I had to decipher them quite a bit from the writing mistakes).





KyleColorado said:


> He knows he needs editing. But he feels he is a good storyteller.
> 
> He is charging fifteen dollars a page (yow!) to be a ghostwriter for anyone who desires one. The cost of his services also includes editing, which he will not be doing. (He will be using part of the fee to hire an editor for his ghostwriting).
> 
> The extra money he makes, he wants to use so he can hire an editor to correct the mistakes in his novel.
> 
> 
> :encouragement:



I feel for the guy, but this is not how (or where) one should sell his services. If a very capable editor sees his work, I expect that he'll received the same, if not harsher or realistic criticism along the way.

I understand that he's trying hard to relay his message to us... but this is not cryptography class.


----------



## Kyle R

Hemlock said:


> If a very capable editor sees his work, I expect that he'll received the same, if not harsher or realistic criticism along the way.



Hmm.. I would imagine a capable editor would be salivating over him, and would reply with something along the lines of:

"I've been reading your writing, and I would love to help you out. Attached is a listing of my fees and the editorial services I proved. Please contact me so we can work together to bring you the success you seek."


----------



## Foxee

KyleColorado said:


> Woops! I think you guys missed his intentions, which are stated on his webpage (although, I admit, I had to decipher them quite a bit from the writing mistakes).
> 
> He knows he needs editing. But he feels he is a good storyteller.
> 
> He is charging fifteen dollars a page (yow!) to be a ghostwriter for anyone who desires one. The cost of his services also includes editing, which he will not be doing. (He will be using part of the fee to hire an editor for his ghostwriting).
> 
> The extra money he makes, he wants to use so he can hire an editor to correct the mistakes in his novel.
> 
> 
> :encouragement:


Problem is, asking people to look past lack of knowledge as regarding the most basic fundamental aspects of the craft is not a way to encourage them to part with their money. When it comes down to business, people want to be reassured that if they're shelling out hard, cold, cash that represents their own time and toil that they're getting value for their money.

Going back to the car/mechanic analogy, I can put a racing engine in a rustbucket jalopy but I doubt anyone would pay premium price for the car.


----------



## Kyle R

I agree with you Foxee.

But he seems to have made up his mind. I say, go for it! Trial and error, you know? It may be a valuable learning experience for him.

If he wants to climb a mountain without any gear, despite those who have told him otherwise, I'm not going to stop him. I'll just say, "Good luck! Let me know how it turns out!"


----------



## Hemlock

KyleColorado said:


> Hmm.. I would imagine a capable editor would be salivating over him, and would reply with something along the lines of:
> 
> "I've been reading your writing, and I would love to help you out. Attached is a listing of my fees and the editorial services I proved. Please contact me so we can work together to bring you the success you seek."



You do have a point. Editors will be swarming from all over him. :coffeescreen:


On a relevant note, since I happen to write military correspondence (which is way more direct than civilian) for my boss, he asked me a simple question before he decided to hire me. He asked:


> Do you know the basics? I don't intend on correcting every single letter of the documents you'll make. If a message needs to be rushed, it must be precise. Emergency letters should be done in less than five minutes.


----------



## moderan

SouthernRiver4 said:


> Please tell me that that whole thread was archived somewhere. I gotta read this.


No. I think Baron made it go away. I looked and looked. 'twas in this very section. Most amusing too. I might have a copy somewhere but I dunno. The OP's name was "tales" which makes it hard to search for, in a place like this. Was about brightly colored Sumatran rats with powers. Very SyFy.


----------



## kunox

ttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk yyyyyyyyyyyyooooooouuuuu!!!!! for saying that.


----------



## kunox

btw I am learning speeling and grammar as we speak. I have purchased five books on the subjects for the kindle and am willing to learn.

and thank you Today, 03:20 PM#48​*KyleColorado*


----------



## Sam

You're learning spelling and grammar as we speak, but yet you want to charge people fifteen dollars a page to ghost-write? That's like a kid who's never driven in his life teaching people how to drive for fifteen dollars a pop. With the greatest of respect, you can't construct an error-free sentence, and you want people to pay you for doing something they could do for free?


----------



## kunox

never mind.... if you don't know what the word editor means then I can't help you lol......


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> never mind.... if you don't know what the word editor means then I can't help you lol......



Pretentiousness, thy name is Kunox.


----------



## moderan

kunox said:


> never mind.... if you don't know what the word editor means then I can't help you lol......


You've managed to turn sympathy into pity, and a thread about pointless perseverance into idiocy. I can't wait to see what you come up with next.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

moderan said:


> You've managed to turn sympathy into pity, and a thread about pointless perseverance into idiocy. I can't wait to see what you come up with next.



Bank on it being a gem.


----------



## moderan




----------



## SouthernRiver4

moderan said:


>



Yeah, that's about right.


----------



## Sam

kunox said:


> never mind.... if you don't know what the word editor means then I can't help you lol......



You don't need an editor. You, sir/madam, need a miracle worker.


----------



## Gamer_2k4

kunox said:


> never mind.... if you don't know what the word editor means then I can't help you lol......



I'm curious to hear your definition.


----------



## kunox

someone that corrects spelling and grammar errors among other things.


----------



## moderan

And you need one desperately. Need I point out that your sig is spelled wrong? Self-righteousness is so attractive too...let us know when someone has spent money on your services.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

moderan said:


> And you need one desperately. Need I point out that your sig is spelled wrong? Self-righteousness is so attractive too...let us know when someone has spent money on your services.



Or rather, keep a running total in your signature. Here, I'll set it up for you:

"i made tis mucch do0lers from bein and editer: 30 do0lers."


----------



## Sam

kunox said:


> someone that corrects spelling and grammar errors among other things.



How will you pay said editor - per line or per word?


----------



## SouthernRiver4

Sam said:


> How will you pay said editor - per line or per word?



If you think about it, any editor would jump at the opportunity to be his editor. They would never have to work a day in their life once they finished shoveling that literary excretion.


----------



## kunox

this is the last thing I will post on this. apparently this post is troll bate and no I am not angry or self righteous.{unlike you I don't read to much into people i can't view there faces to see what they are actually saying} but I will leave you with this. content.... or what you guys think is content.... is nothing but things you can do at a spelling bee. so unless you are judging me by work I haven't released and you haven't seen. then I would check you're assumptions at the door. plus lest I remind you it's the imagination that writers rely off of to create there works. not their ability to remember what word goes where. If I where you I would just chill and forget we even had this discussion I know I will} till you actually have some of my work to view. and tw I am getting some where above ten pages edited from my novel. and when I get that published in a year or two, copy written. so remember don't judge lest ye be judged. I live by that and I'm an atheist.

p.s. i hope you can forgive e Because I already forgive you.


----------



## kunox

btw: I seem to remember some eliterate that has written a book. meaning they can't read ore write. but they are not doing bad.

p.s. thought I'd leave you with that thought.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> this is the last thing I will post on this. apparently this post is troll bate and no I am not angry or self righteous.{unlike you I don't read to much into people i can't view there faces to see what they are actually saying} but I will leave you with this. content.... or what you guys think is content.... is nothing but things you can do at a spelling bee. so unless you are judging me by work I haven't released and you haven't seen. then I would check you're assumptions at the door. plus lest I remind you it's the imagination that writers rely off of to create there works. not their ability to remember what word goes where. If I where you I would just chill and forget we even had this discussion I know I will} till you actually have some of my work to view. and tw I am getting some where above ten pages edited from my novel. and when I get that published in a year or two, copy written. so remember don't judge lest ye be judged. I live by that and I'm an atheist.
> 
> p.s. i hope you can forgive e Because I already forgive you.



So many things wrong with this. Not the least of which is the spelling and poor grammar. But this moral high ground you take with us? Like you're somehow so far above us? Who do you think you are? 

You came on here asking us about some sort of ridiculous career notion that was bound to fail from the start by your sheer laziness and unwillingness to try to better yourself. We didn't make assumptions about you, buddy. We drew conclusions based on what was right in front of us.  

Why do you think that you are so special? Getting a novel published isn't going to make you a celebrity. The way you write--and above that, with the content (which I assume is about the same grade as your punctuation and spelling), you would have better luck sending off a piece of used toilet paper.

And finally...what was that about being an atheist? It had nothing to do anything. Like, seriously...you throw that in there for what purpose? To impress us? Kunox...you're a laughing stock. You have made a fool of yourself. Every time you make a "last post", every sentence you make...you are absolutely the bottom of the forum barrel right now.

You are below us simply by your attitude and your pedestal. And that is fact.

I truly hope this thread is closed and locked up tight.


----------



## kunox

like I said. I will not say anything else. plus you judge me in whatever way you must and yes i do admit to being angry there for a while but I am laying done the sword. plus I don't care if you continue to attack. thus this is the last post i am ever putting on this subject. you need not bother yourself with me.

p.s. I am above no man. I ust tired of the venom brought by just asking this question.


----------



## Gamer_2k4

kunox said:


> plus lest I remind you it's the imagination that writers rely off of to create there works. not their ability to remember what word goes where.



Not true.  Imagination is the least of a writer's worries; everyone, even non-writers, has a few dozen good ideas bouncing around their heads.  The difference between those who are published and those who aren't is the ability to remember what word goes where.


----------



## Leyline

There's a guy on this forum called namesake, who speaks and writes English as a second language. The stories he posts (and, yes, he posts stories, has them critiqued, revises them, posts the revision) are often hard to understand. But two things shine through in regards to namesake: 1) He does indeed have talent. I know this from reading his work. His stuff is replete with sudden, beautiful, turns of phrase that are like jewels when a reader comes across them. 2) He works his fingers to the bone to improve, pays attention to critique and suggestion, never takes things personally, thanks those who read and comment on his work, and does not give up. He has the dream of writing and selling stories in English and is willing to put the labor in to hone that natural talent in _another language_, a goal that I -- quite frankly -- do not have the guts to attempt. And I think, deep down, he will achieve that goal.

He's one of the people I respect most on this forum.

You could learn a lot from him, kunox. I won't insult or argue with you. I just wanted to tell you about that.

Best,
-G.


----------



## Lewdog

I'm thinking about trading bad stories for expired food.


----------



## Kevin

This was really ugly. kunox, I may or may not agree but...Any mods out there?


----------



## moderan

Sheesh. It might be a mercy to lock this one.#-o:deadhorse:


----------



## Lewdog

Someone paid me to write a eulogy once, it killed.

Then a company asked me to write a Carpenter's How to Book, I nailed it.


----------



## moderan

Tom Swift LIVES!


----------



## kinetika

I still think this person is flaming or trolling, and despite him/her posting that link, I can't believe this is all serious.


----------



## moderan

If trolling, is masochistic.


----------



## Olly Buckle

Lewdog said:


> Someone paid me to write a eulogy once, it killed.
> 
> Then a company asked me to write a Carpenter's How to Book, I nailed it.


I think you mean an elegy rather than eulogy.


----------



## Gamer_2k4

Olly Buckle said:


> I think you mean an elegy rather than eulogy.



Either is appropriate here, I think.


----------



## Sam

kunox said:


> like I said. I will not say anything else. plus you judge me in whatever way you must and yes i do admit to being angry there for a while but I am laying done the sword. plus I don't care if you continue to attack. thus this is the last post i am ever putting on this subject. you need not bother yourself with me.
> 
> p.s. I am above no man. I ust tired of the venom brought by just asking this question.



When I first started writing, my grammar and spelling _sucked. _I honed it -- through constant reading and writing -- for years until it approached a level I was content with. Even now I'm still learning new techniques, words, and ways to improve my syntax. What's the point of this anecdote, you ask. If you go through life believing that someone else will come along to correct your weaknesses, you're setting yourself up for failure before you've put pen to paper. 

Let's imagine you and I have written a similar novel. Our ideas are brilliant, our stories epic, but my SpAG is superior to yours. Which manuscript do you think the publishing house will back? If you say 'mine', you're deluding yourself. When the head guru takes a look at your MS and sees that you don't know the difference between 'there', 'they're', and 'their', he'll probably say to himself, "This guy doesn't take any pride in his work. If he wants us to tidy every aspect of his craft, he'll most likely want us to do everything else as well. Pass." 

That's life. Why would anyone settle for an inferior MS when there are _thousands _of writers out there who take the craft more seriously than you seem to do? Good ideas will not get you through on their own. You need the full package. The sooner you realise that, the better it will be for you.


----------



## kunox

Sam said:


> When I first started writing, my grammar and spelling _sucked. _I honed it -- through constant reading and writing -- for years until it approached a level I was content with. Even now I'm still learning new techniques, words, and ways to improve my syntax. What's the point of this anecdote, you ask. If you go through life believing that someone else will come along to correct your weaknesses, you're setting yourself up for failure before you've put pen to paper.
> 
> Let's imagine you and I have written a similar novel. Our ideas are brilliant, our stories epic, but my SpAG is superior to yours. Which manuscript do you think the publishing house will back? If you say 'mine', you're deluding yourself. When the head guru takes a look at your MS and sees that you don't know the difference between 'there', 'they're', and 'their', he'll probably say to himself, "This guy doesn't take any pride in his work. If he wants us to tidy every aspect of his craft, he'll most likely want us to do everything else as well. Pass."
> 
> That's life. Why would anyone settle for an inferior MS when there are _thousands _of writers out there who take the craft more seriously than you seem to do? Good ideas will not get you through on their own. You need the full package. The sooner you realize that, the better it will be for you.



sorry to brake my own promise but I think everyone is calmed down now. Think back t an earliest post I made. I am learning spelling and grammer. already learned how to write a book by now. I mean I've been working on that skill since 2006. though i was just musing to figure out what I wanted to write. I tried many different things I even had a mentor{technically she was my girlfriend at the time but she had way more experience than I had.}. everybody that's read my stuff wonders why I haven't been writing book all along.


----------



## kunox

btw I think [aying someone to check my mistakes is taking pride in my work.. you seem to forget i ma going to do that.


----------



## kunox

I actually thought I should note this.


things i am going to do
1, learn to spell
2. get superb grammar.
3. both by self study
4. writer stories and have them edited by a professorial while I am learning.
5. get my novel published. eventually.


----------



## Bruno Spatola

kunox said:


> I actually thought I should note this.
> 
> 
> Things I am going to do:
> 
> 1. Learn to spell.
> 2. Get superb grammar (both by self-study).
> 3. Write stories and have them edited by a professional while I am learning.
> 4. Get my novel published . . . eventually.


----------



## kunox

and  I mention all that in the post that precede this. you guys seemingly fusing me out for things I am already doing. so anyways. I will still run my service though. I know it will be a success.


----------



## kunox

just a little screen shot of my kindle. books I am currently working on circled. and this dose't mean I can not write just because I am working on these books.

and I will also remind I am using editors. so I can provide content.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h154/eyezerocool777/mykindleproof_zps40db4eaf.png


----------



## kunox

last thing I am noting for a while.. If I didn't get the advice of someone that has been in the industry a while{an editor mind you} then I would not be doing this.


----------



## Foxee

Yup, good luck with that.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> last thing I am noting for a while.. If I didn't get the advice of someone that has been in the industry a while{an editor mind you} then I would not be doing this.



Please, by all means, give us some contact information.

Cite your source.

If this person has been in the business for a while, then they will most likely have a website or a contact number. So share with us.


----------



## kunox

aal I have is there provate email adress so I will have to ask first.. actually i'll just give it to you. and you can ask them. that way no one else will be pestering her.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> aal I have is there provate email adress so I will have to ask first.. actually i'll just give it to you. and you can ask them. that way no one else will be pestering her.



I'll be sure to contact her.

And for the record, and this may not seem true but it is, nobody who is worth anything in their career doesn't have a website or a Facebook for their job.


----------



## kunox

got a website and I am working on a face book eventually.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> got a website and I am working on a face book eventually.



Wasn't really my point. I meant a professional. No *professional *editor is going to be worth anything if he/she doesn't have any contact information or examples of their editing...etc. 

You having a Facebook and a website is a little pointless right now since you're far from a professional, anyway. Not trying to be rude, but that is a simple fact.

Also, I've already emailed her and I look forward to her reply.


----------



## kunox

sorry mis-read what you said,,, it wil be interesting none the least though.{that is what shew wil have to say.}


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> sorry mis-read what you said,,, it wil be interesting none the least though.{that is what shew wil have to say.}



What do you mean _that is what she will have to say_?


----------



## kunox

she is very articulate and she talks a l lot so.. lol she is what one would say... Is very interesting to listen to.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> she is very articulate and she talks a l lot so.. lol she is what one would say... Is very interesting to listen to.



Well, then it should be a pleasurable experience. 

If it goes the way you think it might, then she and I will discuss the situation, she will tell me that she is absolutely okay with being your editor no matter how much work it takes, I will swallow my pride and apologize to you, wish you luck on your future endeavors, and nobody will ever have to post on this thread again.


----------



## kunox

actually thats a good thing then but i don't only use her. just to let you know... just look up proofreading on Google, she is just the best,


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> actually thats a good thing then but i don't only use her. just to let you know... just look up proofreading on Google, she is just the best,



I did that. This was the result:
*
proofreading*

Web definitions
(proofread) read for errors; "I should proofread my manuscripts".

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


----------



## kunox

sorry....

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugex...79,d.eWU&fp=517dd349d85c70a3&biw=1260&bih=775


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> sorry....
> 
> https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=4&gs_ri=psy-ab&tok=nlsOMQ6t22XAjUHaggkj7A&cp=22&gs_id=22&xhr=t&q=proofreading+services&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=proof+reading+services&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42965579,d.eWU&fp=517dd349d85c70a3&biw=1260&bih=775



And what exactly am I supposed to click on?


----------



## kunox

a google search well if you want me to be more specific...

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugex...79,d.eWU&fp=517dd349d85c70a3&biw=1260&bih=775

Premium Proofreading Services | ProofreadingPal LLC


----------



## Foxee

Why did you not have your own website content proofread?


----------



## kunox

no money as of this week.. now as of the third of every month I get $45 that going to my book o=plus there is a minimum price limit on each sit but I do include in my price for at least twp edits.
ssi sucks lol...


----------



## Travers

This thread is one of the most compelling and entertaining reads on this whole site!!

How no-one mentioned the best error of all I'll never know.

"and no I am not directing this stablemen at any of you."

You couldn't write this stuff on purpose!

P.s Good luck kunox.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

Travers said:


> This thread is one of the most compelling and entertaining reads on this whole site!!
> 
> How no-one mentioned the best error of all I'll never know.
> 
> "and no I am not directing this stablemen at any of you."
> 
> You couldn't write this stuff on purpose!
> 
> P.s Good luck kunox.



If there was ever a troll of that magnitude...I think they could make some big money.


----------



## JosephB

Kunox, you don't happen to prepare taxes do you?


----------



## kunox

no I don't... lol


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> no I don't... lol



I have several questions. You're not obligated to answer, but I'd really like to know:

1. How old are you?
2. Do you make your own money?
3. Do you have a job?
4. Do you still live with your parents?


----------



## kunox

1. How old are you? 28
2. Do you make your own money? ssi but am trying to become self safficent
3. Do you have a job? no besides writing plus I live to far out of town.
4. Do you still live with your parents? ye but I moved out six times... it's not like i didn't try.


----------



## Travers

Actually this thread has got me thinking. Has there, do you reckon, ever been a successful illiterate novelist?

One so completely held together by the work of a tireless and dedicated editor that the masses could never tell.

That's the sort of level kunox is aiming for it seems, can it possibly be done do you think?

Also, kunox, what is your native language?


----------



## kunox

"That's the sort of level kunox is aiming for it seems."
not what I am aiming for just what I have to temporarily deal with because I do seek to improve.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

Travers said:


> Actually this thread has got me thinking, has there, do you reckon, ever been a successful illiterate novelist?
> 
> One so completely held together by the work of a tireless and dedicated editor that the masses could never tell.
> 
> That's the sort of level kunox is aiming for it seems, can it possibly be done do you think?



I'll believe when I see it on Ripley's.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> "That's the sort of level kunox is aiming for it seems."
> not what I am aiming for just what I have to temporarily deal with because I do seek to improve.



He's almost done it! AN ALMOST NEARLY PERFECT SENTENCE.


----------



## Travers

Don't goad the man SouthernRiver4, he may change his mind and send the stablemen after you.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

Travers said:


> Don't goad the man SouthernRiver4, he may change his mind and send the stablemen after you.



'Tis alright--for I shall blind them with the power of literary accuracy.


----------



## kunox

btw wa there was one person that i Know is illiterate and has book {not sure though if I get my facts strait} but her last name was Hilton.


----------



## kunox

I love you guys because at least we are being funny now.


----------



## Travers

I may be poking a bit of fun kunox, but I honestly wish you luck with your story. I do struggle to see how you can coherently get your ideas across with the current state of your language. No matter how good the editor.


----------



## Deleted member 49710

SouthernRiver4 said:


> He's almost done it! AN ALMOST NEARLY PERFECT SENTENCE.


You know, while the flaws in kunox's business plan are pretty obvious, I think they've been adequately covered. At a certain point you're just tearing someone down for fun. If Kunox fails, he fails. If he's successful more power to him. Why not drop it?


----------



## SouthernRiver4

lasm said:


> You know, while the flaws in kunox's business plan are pretty obvious, I think they've been adequately covered. At a certain point you're just tearing someone down for fun. If Kunox fails, he fails. If he's successful more power to him. Why not drop it?



Fair enough. Beyond contacting his editor, I am washing my hands clean of the situation and the thread in general. Consider me unsubscribed and not returning.


----------



## Travers

SouthernRiver4 said:


> Fair enough. Beyond contacting his editor, I am washing my hands clean of the situation and the thread in general. Consider me unsubscribed and not returning.



Haha, third time lucky eh?


----------



## kunox

thank you guys...


----------



## squidtender

*Enough is enough. I grow tired of this thread, and people toeing the line of flaming. Keep it friendly, keep it on topic or I will start putting people in timeout. *


----------



## kunox

I will admit this I get a bit obsessive sometimes nd can't drop things.. ladtily night I was writing in my second book and checking this site observably  that dosen't really help.


----------



## Sam

lasm said:


> You know, while the flaws in kunox's business plan are pretty obvious, I think they've been adequately covered. At a certain point you're just tearing someone down for fun. If Kunox fails, he fails. If he's successful more power to him. Why not drop it?



It's not tearing them down when they won't listen to what you say. At the moment, Kunox is in Cloud Cuckoo Land and nothing we say will ever convince him otherwise. He's pooh-poohed all advice hitherto, which calls to question the very validity/purpose of this thread, and for that reason (among others) I too will not be returning. 

Good luck, Kunox. You're going to need it and then some.


----------



## JosephB

In the meantime, everyone visit my new plastic surgery website:

Dr. Joe's Look Good in a Hurry Plastic Surgery Depot


----------



## shadowwalker

If I'm reading this right, the proofreader (site linked above) told the OP that he should offer to ghostwrite stories for people. Then the ghostwritten stories get proofread by a professional (with little doubt who that professional would be), the cost of said proofreading coming from the payment for ghostwriting, and the left-over payment for ghost-writing would pay for the OP's proofreading by said (same) professional.

Does this sound just a little bit suspicious?


----------



## kunox

shadowwalker said:


> If I'm reading this right, the proofreader (site linked above) told the OP that he should offer to ghostwrite stories for people. Then the ghostwritten stories get proofread by a professional (with little doubt who that professional would be), the cost of said proofreading coming from the payment for ghostwriting, and the left-over payment for ghost-writing would pay for the OP's proofreading by said (same) professional.
> 
> Does this sound just a little bit suspicious?


 no.. I suggested it and she was like go for it and it wasn't  one of teh links above. it was that email adress I gave to southern river.


----------



## kunox

aslong as that means I get my book out there I am happy.


----------



## Foxee

kunox said:


> aslong as that means I get my book out there I am happy.


This is totally understandable. I think, though, that on the way to getting your book out there you need to have a care for people who may take advantage of you. You've posted here for advice and you're getting comments that will help you if you *slow down a little and take a more considered approach.* Scammers are really good at taking your money for nothing. Be careful!

After watching this thread for a while what I'm seeing is that you're in a hurry, kunox, and I'd say you're getting ahead of yourself. Even your posts are written in such a rush that you don't correct them, this makes it look as though you don't care to learn.

Here's some straightforward advice:
*1. Do the learning THEN do the business *
(For now, your website is only going to hurt your goals. I would suggest taking it down until you know more about the business and about writing so that you can back up your offers on there when you are really ready.)
*2. Practice writing.* If you show that you are willing to learn and correct your mistakes you shouldn't have to pay people to help you.
*3. Practice some more.*
4. *Research* how ghostwriting works, how publishing works, what people are willing to do and what is reasonable to pay for. *Educate yourself about the business you're trying to get into.*
5. *Wait* to launch that website when you have it groomed free of mistakes and you are truly ready to offer a good product. THEN you have a much better chance.

This is very standard advice that nearly everyone on this forum has given and/or taken at one time or another, you are certainly not alone.


----------



## kunox

Foxee said:


> This is totally understandable. I think, though, that on the way to getting your book out there you need to have a care for people who may take advantage of you. You've posted here for advice and you're getting comments that will help you if you *slow down a little and take a more considered approach.* Scammers are really good at taking your money for nothing. Be careful!
> 
> After watching this thread for a while what I'm seeing is that you're in a hurry, kunox, and I'd say you're getting ahead of yourself. Even your posts are written in such a rush that you don't correct them, this makes it look as though you don't care to learn.
> 
> Here's some straightforward advice:
> *1. Do the learning THEN do the business *
> (For now, your website is only going to hurt your goals. I would suggest taking it down until you know more about the business and about writing so that you can back up your offers on there when you are really ready.)
> *2. Practice writing.* If you show that you are willing to learn and correct your mistakes you shouldn't have to pay people to help you.
> *3. Practice some more.*
> 4. *Research* how ghostwriting works, how publishing works, what people are willing to do and what is reasonable to pay for. *Educate yourself about the business you're trying to get into.*
> 5. *Wait* to launch that website when you have it groomed free of mistakes and you are truly ready to offer a good product. THEN you have a much better chance.
> 
> This is very standard advice that nearly everyone on this forum has given and/or taken at one time or another, you are certainly not alone.



thank you I'll have to take that in mind.


----------



## moderan

Well, dedication is covered. Now...I don't think five ebooks about grammar and spelling will be sufficient to cover the rest. Are any of them Strunk and White, I want to know?
And I for one am still curious about the identity of this illiterate novelist. Paris Hilton is not the question, Alex.
So, the book gets "out there" into the public. What then? And you're working on a second book? What are they about? Let's see some real stuff.
Not that I believe any of this rank nonsense for an instant...I think you're a masochist, but I'll play along.


----------



## Foxee

kunox said:


> thank you I'll have to take that in mind.


You just made my point, kunox. You replied to that post almost before I finished hitting the 'post' button which tells me that you didn't have time to read it. Slow down. Seriously. It'll work better for you.


----------



## kunox

they ae sci/fantasists about cheating the fates.{think like the fates form Greek mythology but I made up my own. the problem with showing them is one of two things. I would ether hav to have them copy written "officially. or that person would have to sign a nondisclosure agreement. i am that secretive.


----------



## Travers

I think the issue a lot of people are having with this thread is that, while you have only made minor errors with this response "thank you I'll have to take that in mind.", you've still disregarded the information you're supposedly taking in and posted a rushed answer with simple errors in the most basic of sentences.

And you've done even worse with your next post. 

Before you hit the "Post" button, look at what you've written. Correct spelling mistakes and add capitals where required, you do know how to do this stuff!!


----------



## kunox

your right except one thing. I do an first go through but maybe two more will help. btw my book is not making it out alive without a hundred.


----------



## kunox

yes I disagreed but I didn't know how else to respond. I didn't want to lie. no literally.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> your right except one thing. I do an first go through but maybe two more will help. btw my book is not making it out alive without a hundred.



Call me a hypocrite, but I can't stay away from this thread.

Something I notice, is that you tend to explain away any critique that people throw your way, and then immediately bring it back to something prideful about your book. 

It's great to be passionate about your craft--but you have to...and I mean *have to *really care enough to put your whole being into it.


----------



## Travers

SouthernRiver4 said:


> Call me a hypocrite, but I can't stay away from this thread.
> 
> Something I notice, is that you tend to explain away any critique that people throw your way, and then immediately bring it back to something prideful about your book.
> 
> It's great to be passionate about your craft--but you have to...and I mean *have to *really care enough to put your whole being into it.



I don't think hypocrite is quite the word.... Addict is more correct.

We can set up counseling, maybe host an intervention. Don't be afraid help is here.


----------



## kunox

actually I've had this problem a lot and I've tried to correct it. If you we to come up to me in real lef I one of the more articulate people, people know and that's because I am n the moment. i am just quick witted and smart but somehow that translated to ediot who is trolling online  no clue why and I don't even kno whats different.


----------



## Travers

It's really easy to correct.

When you've finished typing and you want to post, don't.

Re-read what you've written and correct any mistakes.

Once you're certain they've all been corrected, THEN you can post.


----------



## moderan

kunox said:


> they ae sci/fantasists about cheating the fates.{think like the fates form Greek mythology but I made up my own. the problem with showing them is one of two things. I would ether hav to have them copy written "officially. or that person would have to sign a nondisclosure agreement. i am that secretive.


That is truly abject nonsense. Seriously. Let's try that in English, so you can read what you said.


> They are sci/fantastists about cheating the fates (think like the Fates from Greek mythology but I made up my own. The problem with showing them is one of two things. I would either have to have them copy written officially or that person would have to sign a nondisclosure agreement. I am that secretive.


So..what I get out of this folderol is that you're writing fantasies about someone who cheated the Fates (the Moirai-Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos), except that you've made up your own names. And you're so protective of this supposedly revolutionary idea that you want to copyright them (actually it would be trademarking, but you knew that, right?) or someone viewing your manuscript would have to sign a nondisclosure agreement?
Daft.
Because why? Immediately upon viewing, the viewer would be so taken with your idea that he would steal them and immediately start writing about them, breaking your poor little heart. It doesn't work like that.
I'm still waiting for reality to set in. 
And if you're that secretive, why are you here telling us all about your masturbatory plan?


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> actually I've had this problem a lot and I've tried to correct it. If you we to come up to me in real lef I one of the more articulate people, people know and that's because I am n the moment. i am just quick witted and smart but somehow that translated to ediot who is trolling online  no clue why and I don't even kno whats different.



Oh, no. I honestly believe that you are _very _intelligent. And I also believe that you are articulate. I do read your posts, even if you don't read ours, and some of the things you say are quite intelligent and sometimes they are even pretty well thought out. The issue is, accurately putting that on paper. No one here is saying that you're stupid--we all know that isn't the case.

The fact is, you are lazy. If you weren't, then you would capitalize your letters, you would punctuate correctly. Kunox, before you post--just take a little bit of time to proofread your posts. It might help.


----------



## kunox

actually the plan I can tell you about but I follow a strict rule common seance. if you have a good idea that will make you money don't tell it tpo peoiple taht will steal it. I'm paraphrasing of course but it's just common seance.


----------



## kunox

Actually I know nothing of punctuation. Well besides some. Though I could probably use capitalization more.


----------



## kunox

btw I'm leaving till three or four after a while but I thought I'd reply. It's a general inventors rule. Never show your schematics unless you can trust that person.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

kunox said:


> btw I'm leaving till three or four after a while but I thought I'd reply. It's a general inventors rule. Never show your schematics unless you can trust that person.



For one, you're not inventing anything. For instance, the Sisters of Fate will be making an appearance in my book under unusual circumstances. It's not something new, Kunox.

And another thing--don't double-post. It's against forum etiquette.


----------



## kunox

Last thing till someone else post but every writer in my family say don'rt show you goods till your ready.

for example

Running Legal Blues: Jeff Head: Amazon.com: Kindle Store


----------



## JosephB

I think I'll pass that wisdom on to my girls when they're a bit older.


----------



## kunox

Actually maybe I will post some story I have written just to be fair. All this talk about judging my work but none of it's out there to be judged.


----------



## Sam

kunox said:


> it's just common seance.



Contacting the dead won't do you any good.


----------



## moderan

kunox said:


> actually the plan I can tell you about but I follow a strict rule common seance. if you have a good idea that will make you money don't tell it tpo peoiple taht will steal it. I'm paraphrasing of course but it's just common seance.


Oh, common "seance". So you're writing this all with a ouija board?



kunox said:


> Actually I know nothing of punctuation. Well besides some. Though I could probably use capitalization more.


Do tell.



kunox said:


> btw I'm leaving till three or four after a while but I thought I'd reply. It's a general inventors rule. Never show your schematics unless you can trust that person.


It isn't. But you know the old saw about carpenters, yes? Measure twice, cut once. You should learn to live by that.
This is a great thread. You've provided more entertainment than Nacian, without all the bother. Commendable. And should you achieve your goal, why then that would be just tremendous.
But realistic self-assessment might set you on a different career path. You seriously know very little about writing, how it's done, why it's done, how much money can be made. At this point it's onan for one and onan for all.
Magic 8-ball says "not very likely".
Really...I'm on SSI too. I commend you for wanting to get out from under that. But it's going to take you many years (with your current combative attitude and general lack of any discernable writing toolkit) to achieve the slightest bit of monetary success with the written word.
But given the level of balderdash show so far, you may have a future as a political speechwriter. I'll call Reince Priebus for you.


----------



## shadowwalker

Kunox, this idea of stealing ideas is something all new writers go through. Ideas are of no value in writing. No more than saying "I have an idea for a better mousetrap!". It's in the _execution _of those ideas that the value comes in. And part of the execution is putting words into _coherent _sentences, paragraphs, pages, chapters... 

Very few writers decide to write and voila! punch out masterpieces. It's a craft and a skill and it takes time. No matter how much we wish we could just do it, nobody can. Until you accept that, any money you _might _earn with your writing is going to be spent on editors. And going back to your website, no writer is going to hire you based on that. A website tells people how professional and careful you are about the work you're proposing they pay you for. What does your website say about you?


----------



## kunox

Actually it's my dream to be a writer... "I don't care how i achieve it."


----------



## Foxee

kunox said:


> Actually it's my dream to be a writer... "I don't care how i achieve it."


If you don't care about the 'how' of achieving it, it will remain a dream.


----------



## Sam

kunox said:


> Actually it's my dream to be a writer... "I don't care how i achieve it."



That says it all. 

I dreamt of being an astronaut when I was younger. Then 'common seance' got in the way.


----------



## JosephB

In the little known but highly regarded Irish space program?


----------



## Sam

JosephB said:


> In the little known but highly regarded Irish space program?



You heard of it, then?


----------



## FleshEater

Wow, I literally just sat here and read this whole thread. I can't believe you guys keep wasting time on Kunox.

Has anyone informed him that the Prose Workshop is pretty much safe to post publishable work in?

al i hav too say is thi is som funy stuf!


----------



## moderan

Sam said:


> You heard of it, then?


Yah. It was developed here in the States for use by Paul Hewson. One-way only.


----------



## FleshEater

Wait a dang minute!

Has anybody seen Kunox's thread from 2/4 stating that NO ONE WILL EDIT HIS WORK? What's all this talk about editors in this thread when not even a month ago no one would touch his work.

Sounds like Kunox is unfortunately getting scammed by supposed editors.


----------



## Whisper

Sam said:


> That says it all.
> 
> I dreamt of being an astronaut when I was younger. Then 'common seance' got in the way.



Are you saying a spirit told you not to become a astronaut? Are seance's common nowadays?


----------



## SouthernRiver4

FleshEater said:


> Wait a dang minute!
> 
> Has anybody seen Kunox's thread from 2/4 stating that NO ONE WILL EDIT HIS WORK? What's all this talk about editors in this thread when not even a month ago no one would touch his work.
> 
> Sounds like Kunox is unfortunately getting scammed by supposed editors.



I still have yet to hear from his supposed editor. It's noon on a weekday. I find that suspicious.


----------



## FleshEater

This thread is funny, but so are the others. The confidence in _head-hopping _just blows my mind. Humble is not in Kunox's dictionary...but I imagine there probably aren't any other words in there either.


I wonder if he found his "editors" on Craigslist?


----------



## moderan

FleshEater said:


> This thread is funny, but so are the others. The confidence in _head-hopping _just blows my mind. Humble is not in Kunox's dictionary...but I imagine there probably aren't any other words in there either.
> 
> 
> I wonder if he found his "editors" on Craigslist?



I read those too. Kunox varies between having five chapters written, unedited, to two novels and working on the third. So, the "lying" part of becoming a fantasist is covered. Now we just need to work with the skillset.


----------



## FleshEater

I like your idea of his ideal career being a writer for political speeches. He'd flourish there.


----------



## Gamer_2k4

For all the heat you're giving him, kunox HAS made an attempt to use proper capitalization and punctuation in his latest posts.  Sure, he's no Hemingway yet, but at least he appears to be trying now.


----------



## moderan

He's been trying all along.


----------



## Leyline

Enough, folks. Come on.


----------



## shootseven

Shouldn't your publisher be paying for an editor?


----------



## Lewdog

How does someone go about getting a job writing for "Highlights Magazine?"


----------



## DouglasMB

My grandfather taught me an important lesson early in life... it takes two fools to argue. The fact this has gone on 12 pages is really a great example of the lesson he was trying to teach me.


----------



## alanmt

In case some of you missed squidtender's post from this morning, here it is.  



squidtender said:


> *Enough is enough. I grow tired of this thread, and people toeing the line of flaming. Keep it friendly, keep it on topic or I will start putting people in timeout. *


*
We expect criticism to be helpful, impersonal and polite, not mocking, regardless of the level of experience or skill of the poster.  There is no "but X deserved it or provoked me" exception to the rules on WF.  Clean it up. 
*


----------



## kunox

Foxee said:


> If you don't care about the 'how' of achieving it, it will remain a dream.




Actually i like to go deeper into this part because there are people that should probably quiet buttttt... There are people that should ever have.
I will be adding to this post shortly.


----------



## SouthernRiver4

This is the last that needs to be said on the subject:

I have had a chance to speak with Kunox's editor. She is a very down-to-Earth woman who really knows her stuff. She gave me some insight into why Kunox acts the way he does. 

Kunox,

I do not believe that you are a bad guy or a troll. I believe that you do have the desire to pursue a writing career and I believe that you are passionate about it. I haven't given you a fair shake in many pages of this thread, and that is my fault. I have no real reason to have been rude with you and I am absolutely sorry for that. 

The thing I will say to you, Kunox is: There are people here who are more than willing to help you. You may have turned some people off with your attitude, but I am confident that you can turn that around. You have to simply learn to be able to handle critique and advice. When someone tells you that you need to try and improve your spelling, grammar...etc. Then you should respect that and actually give it the effort. There is no reason you cannot be a successful author, but you have to be willing to give it one-thousand-percent effort.

To everyone else: This thread has gone far beyond the scope of the original point. He came to us with a business notion that was doomed to be unsuccessful simply because of his attitude and his skill level. After a while, it went from trying to help him out to being childish and inappropriate. I haven't been an active part of this community very long, but I have been here long enough to know that this is not how members should and usually would treat each other, and believe me, I am just as much at fault as anyone. So, there needs to be no more berating of Kunox and there needs to be no more mocking or anything of the like. It's over and it is done.

Good luck with everything, Kunox.

Cheers,
-Zach E.


----------



## moderan

alanmt said:


> In case some of you missed squidtender's post from this morning, here it is.
> 
> 
> *
> We expect criticism to be helpful, impersonal and polite, not mocking, regardless of the level of experience or skill of the poster.  There is no "but X deserved it or provoked me" exception to the rules on WF.  Clean it up.
> *





kunox said:


> Actually i like to go deeper into this part because there are people that should probably quiet buttttt... There are people that should ever have.
> I will be adding to this post shortly.


----------



## kunox

Thank you.. I'd actually like to add. I did get a little excitable  it's just my nature. In fact it's probably why I seem like i am being rude.  don't like to let ideas set but I do have a problem with debating advice.. Mainly I need to stop but I think like in other places I can add thing my mind is very useful if you pick it. i know so much {not as knowledge} but personal experience with the creative process. Also I hope to add as much or even more than i take if i can{just one of my personal motos}. Sorry though i think i could of done better.


----------



## Foxee

kunox said:


> Thank you.. I'd actually like to add. I did get a little excitable  it's just my nature. In fact it's probably why I seem like i am being rude.  don't like to let ideas set but I do have a problem with debating advice.. Mainly I need to stop but I think like in other places I can add thing my mind is very useful if you pick it. i know so much {not as knowledge} but personal experience with the creative process. Also I hope to add as much or even more than i take if i can{just one of my personal motos}. Sorry though i think i could of done better.


You don't need to apologize. Please just take a breath, slow down a little, I think it would help the whole communication process. Everything will still be here if you don't post lightning-fast.

I'll help you and I believe others here will, too, if we think that you're truly considering our answers to your questions.


----------



## kunox

Foxee said:


> You don't need to apologize. Please just take a breath, slow down a little, I think it would help the whole communication process. Everything will still be here if you don't post lightning-fast.
> 
> I'll help you and I believe others here will, too, if we think that you're truly considering our answers to your questions.



Actually I apologize to much. it's a weird habit I am slowily coming over.


weirdest things I have ever apologized for.
1. somethingthat was not my fault
2. apologizing
3. the time{Literally someone told me it was nine oclock and I said. I sorry


----------



## FleshEater

Your posts are getting better. Why didn't you just take your time before? Seems like, as you said, what you need is a quick refresher course in spelling and grammar. 

Reading A LOT is usually the best way to learn.


----------



## JosephB

What we’ve seen here friends, is the best and perhaps flashes of the worst of human nature. But in the end, people came together, lessons were learned -- and it was beautiful. Thank you, writingforums.com!


----------



## kunox

Because I get exited or in the heat of the moment. i'm so hyper{There is a better word that goes there.} and by then I usually am just talking to five or ten people.


----------



## Gamer_2k4

One quick pointer - when making a parenthetical statement, use ( and ).  The braces that you've been using, { and }, don't serve that purpose.


----------



## Potty

JosephB said:


> What we’ve seen here friends, is the best and perhaps flashes of the worst of human nature. But in the end, people came together, lessons were learned -- and it was beautiful. Thank you, writingforums.com!



I think this sums everything up nicely. Thanks, Joseph.

I will now be closing this thread as it seems to have come to its natural end. I'm sure kunox appreciates all the feedback given by our members. If you have anything further you wish to discuss with kunox, I'm sure he will be happy to receive a_ polite, on topic_ PM.


----------

