# Hand guns? Ammo?



## MaeEatIt (Jul 20, 2011)

Ok well for my current story they handle weapons a lot. Just one problem... I know absolutly nothing about guns. Can somebody explain to me about small handguns that could be easily hidden on the person. What kind of ammo is available for the guns? How do you load a gun? None of then have to be legal so i dont care about that.

This is for a writing challege so i really need help


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## Winston (Jul 20, 2011)

If your MC is a spy, he'll use a .22 caliber.

Don't believe all that B.S. about spooks using chrome plated exotics.  An easily concealable, non-descript throw away gun is the choice.  Yes, it's small caliber.  But it's very quiet and can hold many rounds for it's size.  The Ruger 22/45 would be one good choice.  Whatever your MC chooses, if they are an intelligence operative, they rarely use a gun from their own country.  Too obvious.

Hope this helps.


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## SeverinR (Jul 20, 2011)

Like Winston said .22 cal is the hideaway gun. It is quieter then any other, smaller then any other. I believe a .22 short derringer is extremely small. They sold a .22 that fit in a belt buckle.
I have heard the .22 is the only caliber that can be "silenced". All others are supressed.

Most calibers are available in hide-away size. Just remember bigger caliber=bigger kick, smaller gun magnifies the kick.(leverage) 

You don't specify what type of handgun you need, nor the size of the shooter.
So a bodyguard or someone seriously interested in personal safety would go magnum. .357 or .44. Revolver or semi auto.
The magnums can be fired by women and none muscle bound men. Stereotypically women tend for .38 revolver or .380 semi auto. 
The 9mm is a large capacity firearm, that is between the .38 and .357 in power.

Personally, I think semi autos are more comfortable to shoot then revolvers. IMO it is because of the design. Semi auto the bullet is closer to your hand then in a wheel gun. In a revolver you have the whole wheel of bullets above your hand, semi's the bullet is alot closer to your fingers. est. 1/4 inch for semi, 3/4 to an inch above the hand for wheel guns.

There is the newer calibers, and I have to admit I have not followed them.

If you want a big bang, you could do a .410 shotgun derringer. There is also the sawed off shotguns that would be close to a handgun.(illegal but you said that did not matter.)

So give us a little more specifics and we can talk more focused. This is a quick overview.

questions that matter:
why does the MC carry a firearm?
How big is the MC? Male or female?
attitude: Would MC's attitude tend toward the big guns?
How well do they handle the firearm?(If they can't hit the target, they would be more likely for big capacity, spray and pray shooting. more bullets flying means more likely to accidently hit your target.)
How easy is it to get firearms?


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## MaeEatIt (Jul 20, 2011)

Well my main character is an assassin but by the middle of the story he is more of the bodyguard type. He's a big guy that likes things simple so smaller guns would be preferred. His aim is good as he has been training a lot.My other main character though is a small woman. She only needs to protect herself but she has shaky hands, very nervous when handleing a gun. Both of them can get guns easily but I still don't want any guns that would be almost impossible to obtain.


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## Winston (Jul 20, 2011)

Bodyguards like to intimidate.  They also like to know that each shot counts.  Conversely, many are former military and / police and have an affinity to standard issue guns.  So, based on your male character's background, it'll be .40 to .45 cal if they're the 'loose cannon' type, or a Sig Sauer style 9mm if they're more straight laced.
Your lady, statistically speaking, will carry a .380 or 9mm.  That would fit her description as well.

BTW, you mentioned your MC being an assassin.  That would probably involve using a rifle.  And THAT is a whole lot more complicated...


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## Sam (Jul 21, 2011)

If you're on protective duty (i.e. bodyguard) the first thing you want is a gun with stopping power. Unfortunately, a .22 -- no matter that it's concealable -- isn't going to put down an enemy for good unless the shot is perfect. Nobody on protective detail would ever go for one, simply because there are far more powerful alternatives which are just as easy to conceal. 

If this was my character, I would give him a Glock 17. It uses 9x19 Parabellum rounds, with a clip capacity of 15, 17, or 19 -- more than enough to put down anything that moves. It's also one of the most reliable handguns in the world.


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## SeverinR (Jul 21, 2011)

Sniper assasin would have to use a rifle.
But the assasin that doesn't mind getting up close(possibly in a crowd) could pop a round or two from a .22 and people think its firecrackers.

The .22 is the silent slow killer. People shot with a .22 can be walking around mad and be dead before they reach the hospital.  Not a lot of trauma, more internal bleeding. Not good in bodyguard work, could be good in assasination.

Trauma is what stops a person, and tells them they are hurt serious.
That is why you pick the bigger bullets(or magnums even.)  They hit harder and the disruption of tissue is alot bigger.

Here is a picture of a few bullets fired into gel.
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Unfortunately I can't find a pic comparing a .22, but here is a .22 in gel. note the impact doesn't erupt much and the hole about the size of the bullet throughout.
ballistic gel .22 caliber test - Bing Images

long range assasin-rifle upto .50cal sniper rifle
close in sniper:.22cal (can have a silencer but tends to standout and hard to conceal.)
bodyguard: 9mm(weak)-.44magnum

side note: Sons of guns made a suppressor for the AK47 that allows it to be shot without hearing protection. Thats a big round to be that quiet.


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## Gumby (Jul 21, 2011)

Sam W said:


> If you're on protective duty (i.e. bodyguard) the first thing you want is a gun with stopping power. Unfortunately, a .22 -- no matter that it's concealable -- isn't going to put down an enemy for good unless the shot is perfect. Nobody on protective detail would ever go for one, simply because there are far more powerful alternatives which are just as easy to conceal.
> 
> If this was my character, I would give him a Glock 17. It uses 9x19 Parabellum rounds, with a clip capacity of 15, 17, or 19 -- more than enough to put down anything that moves. It's also one of the most reliable handguns in the world.



This is my view also, you can't beat a Glock.


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## SeverinR (Jul 29, 2011)

Just reread what I posted,
thought I should clarify.
I listed 9mm(weak) by that I would say the 9mm is the smallest I would go for a bodyguard. I love the 9mm, my personal gun S&W. 
I use the heaviest bullet and would recommend good expanding ammo.
I use Jacket silver tip hollow points(STHP), which is also good if you happen to face a werewolf.


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## yahweh (Aug 9, 2011)

The operation of a gun i would say do an internet search on a model, but read the pages of more than one return. If you don't know any models, here are a few: 

Colt 45.
9mm Beretta
Makarov
SIG Sauer

Maybe use Wikipedia to search for a term, such as "handguns", read the information it returns, and then do as i suggested above. By using Wikipedia you'll at least be able to find out some names, models, and makes.


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## SeverinR (Aug 9, 2011)

Can't believe you forgot the Glock model .45.

If your not into guns, important to knowI will use the Glock mentioned above.)
How many rounds does it hold before reload?  6rds (first sign of a bad movie, unlimited bullets)
What size round? .45 caliber
How many safetys? 3
What type: trigger(Trigger will not fire with lateral preasure)
                Drop: will not fire if dropped
                firing pin: pin is not in line with bullet until trigger pulled.

The glock has no safety lever. The firearm is always ready to fire. So don't make a situation where the owner forgets to switch the safety when trying to shoot a badguy.

You need to know a little about the gun you have your Mc's using.  I didn't realize the glocks didn't have an external safety. 
Someone with Glock firearms, do any have a true safety lever?

Some revolvers hold more/less then six bullets. (I know a .22 that has eight, I believe there is a revolver that shoots 5.)
Semi automatics can hold from 5 to 50 rds. check local listings.


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## Foxee (Aug 9, 2011)

SeverinR said:


> The glock has no safety lever. The firearm is always ready to fire. So don't make a situation where the owner forgets to switch the safety when trying to shoot a badguy.


THANK YOU!! I recently read where someone could hear 'the safety catch being released on a Glock' and I just about screamed. Thank you thank you thank you for saving the world from more of the same.

Edit: your number of rounds is too low, though.


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## Sam (Aug 9, 2011)

The Glock 17 holds seventeen rounds, hence its model number. 

And I did mention the Glock, SeverinR.


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## SeverinR (Aug 10, 2011)

Foxee said:


> THANK YOU!! I recently read where someone could hear 'the safety catch being released on a Glock' and I just about screamed. Thank you thank you thank you for saving the world from more of the same.
> 
> Edit: your number of rounds is too low, though.


Are talking about the glock 45 acp? Glock 36 is 6 rds.(its a slim line picked at random) most .45's are 10.
Or the semi auto rounds? 5-50.  Is there a 100rd drum for a pistol?


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## SeverinR (Aug 10, 2011)

Sam W said:


> The Glock 17 holds seventeen rounds, hence its model number.
> 
> And I did mention the Glock, SeverinR.


I was refering to Yahweh
Oh, I did notice Glock 17c holds 10rds.  Love the new guns, haven't kept up, last bought a gun in 1991.


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## Anjelus (Aug 23, 2011)

Do you know anyone who owns firearms? For stuff like this it's helpful to have some practical experience, else it's hard to convey the _feel_ of things (unless you're a Stephen Crane type). Take a trip to a firing range and do some shooting yourself, you know?


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## Revekka (Aug 24, 2011)

Anjelus said:


> Do you know anyone who owns firearms? For stuff like this it's helpful to have some practical experience, else it's hard to convey the _feel_ of things (unless you're a Stephen Crane type). Take a trip to a firing range and do some shooting yourself, you know?



I definately agree with that, especially from my experiance writing a WWII historical fiction set in 1942 Soviet Russia. I knew very little about guns and ammo from a technical perspective so I was literally doing research left, right, and centre. I consulted with several "experts" (who I knew from my archery club) on the subject before writing certain parts of the story. I even picked up a bit of shooting "jargon" along the way which I threw into my story. It's good to throw in those terms because it makes the situation sound more authentic and shows the readers that you know what you are talking about.

Another thing you may want to consider if stealth is important for the assassin. Bullets (especially the larger calibers) often break the sound barrier when they are fired. When you hear a gunshot, you are not only hearing the blast thar propels the bullet, but often a small sonic boom as well. I am not sure about handgun calibers, but I am pretty sure most rifle calibers are supersonic. A suppresor/silencer cannot make any weapon completely silent as you may already know. It will reduce the flash and a bit of the noise, but there is no way to remove a sonic boom (unless subsonic ammo is used). If subsonic ammo is to be used, you should probably make a mention of it somewhere within the story.

Peace, (slightly ironic for me to be saying on this topic)

Revekka


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## Bloggsworth (Aug 24, 2011)

The modern spook will have a plastic gun which will avoid detection - When I say plastic I don't mean Tupperware; some modern plastics and composites are very strong, and carbon-fibre is transparent to X-Rays.


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## SeverinR (Aug 29, 2011)

Revekka said:


> I definately agree with that, especially from my experiance writing a WWII historical fiction set in 1942 Soviet Russia. I knew very little about guns and ammo from a technical perspective so I was literally doing research left, right, and centre. I consulted with several "experts" (who I knew from my archery club) on the subject before writing certain parts of the story. I even picked up a bit of shooting "jargon" along the way which I threw into my story. It's good to throw in those terms because it makes the situation sound more authentic and shows the readers that you know what you are talking about.
> 
> Another thing you may want to consider if stealth is important for the assassin. Bullets (especially the larger calibers) often break the sound barrier when they are fired. When you hear a gunshot, you are not only hearing the blast thar propels the bullet, but often a small sonic boom as well. I am not sure about handgun calibers, but I am pretty sure most rifle calibers are supersonic. A suppresor/silencer cannot make any weapon completely silent as you may already know. It will reduce the flash and a bit of the noise, but there is no way to remove a sonic boom (unless subsonic ammo is used). If subsonic ammo is to be used, you should probably make a mention of it somewhere within the story.
> 
> ...


I believe the .22 is the only *common* round that doesn't go super-sonic. I have read it is the only truly silence-able round. All the rest are supressed.



Bloggsworth said:


> The modern spook will have a plastic gun which will avoid detection - When I say plastic I don't mean Tupperware; some modern plastics and composites are very strong, and carbon-fibre is transparent to X-Rays.


There is enough metal in _factory built _weapons to set off detectors. This does not mean one could not be made completely out of plastic.  It would of course have to have plastic bullets* with caseless or plastic cased rounds. (*Not rubber, hard core deadly plastic bullets.)


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## Revekka (Aug 29, 2011)

Something that came to mind if you are wanting to know how to load a gun.

Check out some video footage of first person shooters on Youtube. Most often times it will show the reload animation. The animations may not always be 100% accurate, but you get the basic idea. That's actually how I learned most of what I know about guns before I consulted with the "experts" (sad, I know).

Warning: Violence and language.

MP-443 Grach - Battlefield: Bad Company 2 - YouTube

Hope that helps,

Revekka


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## theorphan (Oct 8, 2011)

Gumby said:


> This is my view also, you can't beat a Glock.


I also agree with this.  Glocks are pretty good and they also make several compact models.  However if you are a big guy they will fit easily inside your pants with an inside pants holster(I forget the proper name for this holster because I don't carry inside my pants).  Some departments also use Glocks as a standard issue weapon so it would match the suggestion "Bodyguards like to intimidate. They also like to know that each shot counts. Conversely, many are former military and / police and have an affinity to standard issue guns. So, based on your male character's background, it'll be .40 to .45 cal if they're the 'loose cannon' type, or a Sig Sauer style 9mm if they're more straight laced.
Your lady, statistically speaking, will carry a .380 or 9mm. That would fit her description as well.

BTW, you mentioned your MC being an assassin. That would probably involve using a rifle. And THAT is a whole lot more complicated..."
It might not be threatening like a Desert Eagle but it is more proper looking then some of the small guns out there.  It has a standard magazine that drops out of the grip with the push of a button.  If you have any other questions for me let me know.


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## PaulMcElligott (May 30, 2012)

Sam W said:


> The Glock 17 holds seventeen rounds, hence its model number.


The Glock 17 was the company's 17th patent, hence its model number.


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## PaulMcElligott (May 30, 2012)

As has been said before, .22 is the most common "small" caliber, although it's pretty useless as a "carry" piece. .380 Auto and .32 Auto are probably more common calibers for small carry piece, especially among the less-law-abiding.

Semi-automatics have largely replaced revolvers as a police weapon and are a lot more common as carry weapons these days. You can just fit more rounds into a smaller package. A few still have a bias in favor of revolvers because of their simplicity and reliability. A revolver as a carry piece would either be a .22 or a .38 special, snub-nose (2" barrel)

The most common calibers in semi-automatics are 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. Both Glock and Springfield make "sub-compact" versions (3" barrel) in all three calibers. 

Movies aside, magnum revolvers are not common carry weapons. The .357 magnum used to be, but the .44 magnum was mostly a hunting weapon, not a personal defence gun.


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