# A thread for drivers.



## Olly Buckle (Nov 10, 2018)

I have been fascinated by the idea that writing can have an effect on the outside world, and always felt that writing about driving might be a good way of doing it. There are an awful lot of people killed as a consequence of RTA's, it depends a bit who you take your statistics from, I suppose they vary in their assessment of cause of death, but from around 1,500 to a bit less than 3,000 people every year. Serious injury is even more difficult to asses, with so many different police forces there are different criteria for 'serious' for a start, and then they change definitions, but recon about ten times the number of deaths.

Numbers of deaths are dropping, but it is really hard to tell why; cars are built better, test standards are higher, medical intervention is more effective, and I suppose that it is just possible that people's driving is improving, but maybe not. Writing something readable or memorable about road safety is obviously not easy, who read The Highway code, or Roadcraft recently? I have, but I know that is exceptional, most don't ever look at the highway code again after passing a test. I think the last bit of memorable safety advice was 'Clunk, click, every trip' when seat belts came in.


So here is a thread for drivers, to discuss their experiences of driving, writing about driving and all aspects of it, there is far more than the safety aspect, I love doing it.

An irrelevant one to start you off, lots of people can't remember their number plate, but almost everyone remembers the first one of their parent's they were able to read, MHX 242, there were not nearly so many cars then.

Edit, those statistics are for Great Britain, that is another problem, we have four nations , Great Britain, and the united Kingdom. I have no idea how things are in America, or anywhere else.


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## Winston (Nov 10, 2018)

> ...cars are built better, test standards are higher, medical intervention  is more effective, and I suppose that it is just possible that people's  driving is improving, but maybe not.



IMHO, people today are more distracted and "out of touch' than in any other point in human history.  Vehicle fatalities are down despite the fact that drivers pay no attention.  
When I commuted in Seattle, WA. on my motorcycle, the traffic would crawl and I would watch the drivers around me.  Oh, my God.  Every head was at a 45 degree downward slope. Looking at their phones.   
Putting the distractions in the dashboard doesn't help.  Drivers today just don't pay attention.  But then again, neither do pedestrians or bicyclists. 
The world outside our 3" LCD screens is both wondrous and dangerous.   Make room for it.  Or not, at your peril.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 11, 2018)

I was hooted at the other day for giving way to a bus, who does he think he is that it is more important for him to be somewhere three seconds earlier than the forty or fifty people on a rush hour bus? Actually you usually lose nothing by giving way to a bus, they only go a little way before they pull in to the next stop, and if you let them out at the previous stop they usually pull in tight to let you past. Strangely the opposite happens if you tried to cut them up 

Got hooted at when I pulled out in front of someone the other night, she was most apologetic when I pointed out she had forgotten to put her lights on, I didn't mention not using the horn after dark in a built up area


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## Bloggsworth (Nov 11, 2018)

Britain's road deaths are very low compared to others, including America, where one would think, that with all that space they would be able to miss each other. There is a myth about speed kills, in Northumberland, where they have no speed cameras, the death rate is below the national average and statistics show that absolute speed is only a factor in about 9% of accidents - By far the largest cause is turning right across a stream of traffic and, IIRC, emerging from side-streets/failing to apply the brakes in time and running into the back of the vehicle(s) in front. China's death rate is appaling and, in India, every new car is, statistically, going to be involved in a fatal accident within 5 years.


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## Kevin (Nov 11, 2018)

There's so many things I can't say as _they can and will be used against me in a court of law_. 
Winny, until you take away the monotonous sights of my commute's stop/start/stop/start I may be forced to multitask. And aren't I supposed to be looking just at the road, not at the world? 
Is it okay for me to watch the woman in front of me apply her make up? I think not. Mother wouldn't approve... 
That sexy curve, on the other hand, would've been fun except for all the damn cars in front of me.
Turn up the music? Turn off the music? Talk radio? Yell at the top of my lungs, hyperventilate? How exactly does one NOT fall asleep knowing YOU WILL NEVER GET THESE MINUTES OF YOUR LIFE BACK AGAIN? 

There, now I've incriminated myself. Thank you.


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## Plasticweld (Nov 11, 2018)

Take a ride with me on a legendary race track in my car
 Why walk when you can run?  563 words     A story inspired by Olly
 Why does being bad, feel so good?          mild language  488 words

None of these stories are about safety, they are  about the joy of driving fast, enjoying the road and the horsepower of what your driving.  As motorcyclist, hooligan driver of sports cars,  I see the real danger as cell phones and distracted drivers being the main cause of accidents.  Do away with seatbelts, airbags, speed limits and the false sense of security that surrounds you in your car and maybe more would pay attention.  

I personally love the fact that driving, is dangerous.  What you do matters, your judgement the choices you make may not only effect your life. but someone else.  I have no desire to make it any less so. 

My favorite bumper sticker "Hang up and Drive."


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## Winston (Nov 11, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> I personally love the fact that drive, is dangerous.  What you do matters, your judgement the choices you make may not only effect your life. but someone else.  I have no desire to make it any less so.



Some folks are very uncomfortable actually being in control of their lives.  In a car, or elsewhere.  
Others find freedom exhilarating. They seek opportunity, and will fight for their right to do what others deem "dangerous".  
Just an observation.  From the safety of my office chair.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 12, 2018)

Plasticweld said:


> Take a ride with me on a legendary race track in my car
> Why walk when you can run?  563 words     A story inspired by Olly
> Why does being bad, feel so good?          mild language  488 words
> 
> ...



I have seen it suggested that seat belts should be abolished and replaced by a ten inch, sharpened, chrome steel spike in the centre of the steering wheel, that would induce a little caution 

My favourite for a bumper sticker, 'Don't make yourself the meat in the sandwich'. Most comments along those lines say things like 'get out of my boot', he doesn't care about you or he wouldn't be there in the first place, but remind him he can get hurt and his car wrecked and it might have some effect.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 12, 2018)

> As motorcyclist, hooligan driver of sports cars, I see the real danger as cell phones and distracted drivers being the main cause of accidents.



I was thinking about this, two things, mostly as a motorcyclist you are the one who suffers, I have hit a pedestrian quite hard, and we both got bruises, but that was all. The other thing is that the road is open to everyone, that pedestrian was a German woman who looked the wrong way up a one way bit of road and stepped straight off the island, out in front of me, they drive on the other side from us. You simply never know, it is a good rule to never drive so fast that you can not stop in the distance you can see is clear to stop in. What if some little toe rag has decided to run away from home on his skateboard? You might expect relief, but even when it is entirely their fault people get very uptight if you kill their children 

In terms of actual experiences I have come round corners on country lanes and found a dip in the road still filled with frozen slush from the night before when everything else was long melted, a horse with his eyes rolling coming sideways on down the middle of the road with the man on his back trying hard to control him, and a fallen tree completely blocking the road (not all three at once you understand). I bet there are a few things people can add to that little list.


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## Thaumiel (Nov 12, 2018)

I've only been driving for a year or so, and I love it. Driving my car is brilliant. I really hate other drivers though. 

Motorcyclists aren't much better.

 Actually, cyclists as well.


 Pedestrians are pretty awful. 




They make driving a really bad time.


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## bdcharles (Nov 12, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> Numbers of deaths are dropping, but it is really hard to tell why; cars are built better, test standards are higher, medical intervention is more effective, and I suppose that it is just possible that people's driving is improving, but maybe not.



I had to do one of those driver awareness courses the other day (35 in a 30 - rock'n'roll!) and the guy came out with all these stats about how drivng in the 1960s claimed up to 10,000 lives a year in the UK but it's down to about 1,800 now. (link). My understanding is that it's just due to better legislation, speed cameras, number plate recognition etc. 



Olly Buckle said:


> So here is a thread for drivers, to discuss their experiences of driving, writing about driving and all aspects of it, there is far more than the safety aspect, I love doing it.
> 
> An irrelevant one to start you off, lots of people can't remember their number plate, but almost everyone remembers the first one of their parent's they were able to read, MHX 242, there were not nearly so many cars then.



EUK 60J

I like driving but I'm not one of those people that needs to wheelspin away from a red light. Take my in car sound system away though and then it's war ... 



James 剣 斧 血 said:


> I really hate other drivers  though.
> Motorcyclists aren't much better.
> Actually, cyclists as well.
> Pedestrians are pretty awful.



James, don't go down the dark path of needless road rage - nothing comes of it! Embrace your status as very small cog in very large machine with one goal: efficient road use.  I had someone give me the finger the other for almost pulling across his path, to which I stopped, and let him go. I laughed as he went by, that angry man, all furious and red-faced, which I'm sure did wonders for his mood. No-one was in any danger. It was a really simple situation. I just don't get that sort of behaviour.

Cyclists can be real pests though - and I say that as a cyclist...


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## Thaumiel (Nov 12, 2018)

bdcharles said:


> James, don't go down the dark path of needless road rage - nothing comes of it! Embrace your status as very small cog in very large machine with one goal: efficient road use.  I had someone give me the finger the other for almost pulling across his path, to which I stopped, and let him go. I laughed as he went by, that angry man, all furious and red-faced, which I'm sure did wonders for his mood. No-one was in any danger. It was a really simple situation. I just don't get that sort of behaviour.
> 
> Cyclists can be real pests though - and I say that as a cyclist...




I've always been a needlessly angry person, even without driving. Pedestrian rage is real. At least there's rules for using the road, pavements are lawless wasteland.


 I have been making a more concerted effort to be more zen these days though. I think it's working, gradually.


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## Kevin (Nov 12, 2018)

I remember that movie with King Fu in it where you got points for pedestrians. You remember Kung Fu ( Kill Bill)? It was called Death Race 2000 I think, but it was like 1970-something. 
You can't even joke about stuff like that now because kids, and even some older people that should know better, are so stupid and easilly influenced that they really go out and do it - So stupid. You can't joke about anything now because their skin is so thin the joke goes right through it _into_ their stupid. They go off or they start crying and hit the ground in the fetal position. God help us if we ever get invaded.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 12, 2018)

There are sections of the highway code for pedestrians and cyclists, they just don't read them. Mind you that is true for motorists as soon as they have passed their test, what was the last time you looked? Probably about three editions ago 

I remember when I learned the difference between theory and practice. We had a policeman come and lecture us at primary school who told us cars had to stop if you were on a zebra crossing, so simply put your foot on the crossing and wait for the car to stop. We tried it on the way home, and were hooted at and had abuse screamed at us out the passenger window. A large enough proportion are idiots that it is best to assume they all are.

The other bit of advice I would give, (besides never driving so fast you can't stop in the distance you can see to be clear) is 'Raise your vision.' We are told to look as far as possible both forward and backwards, but there have been a number of times I have seen something up ahead and slowed only for the person behind me to overtake and then find themselves in trouble having to cope with an unpleasant situation they could have avoided if they had only wondered why I had slowed instead of assuming it was so they could get past. Look as far as you can and try to anticipate, there are often clues as to what happens around the corner even if you can't see round it directly.

Speaking of corners, how many people brake on corners? I throws the balance of the vehicle completely the wrong way, but I see it all the time. Try stopping somewhere before a corner where you can watch brake lights, I bet at least two out of three cars have them come on as they enter the corner. Most are only 'comfort braking' covering the pedal and pressing lightly 'In case', but you should adjust your speed as you approach the corner, then apply a fraction of accelerator to maintain it as you go round, no brakes anywhere near the corner. 'In case' of what? In case you really have not been paying attention, decide you need to slam the brakes on, and start skidding towards the outside of the bend. Happy landings


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## bdcharles (Nov 12, 2018)

James 剣 斧 血 said:


> I've always been a needlessly angry person, even without driving. Pedestrian rage is real. At least there's rules for using the road, pavements are lawless wasteland.
> 
> 
> I have been making a more concerted effort to be more zen these days though. I think it's working, gradually.



Huh. You actually come across as really chill. Maybe you've already blown off your steam by the time you post here.


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## Hill.T.Manner (Nov 12, 2018)

I don't have statistics to share in regards to this but I know what I see, I come to a stop at stoplights and everyone around me is on their phones. Stealing quick glances up to make sure the light hasn't changed and then looking back. It's very much like having a little ball and chain attached to you. No intent to pass judgement because I find myself doing the same thing. Just an interesting part of human psychology. We're so enamored with keeping up with our social obligations that we're willing to allow ourselves to get into a comfortable routine (Complacency) of expecting that traffic will just move along with us.


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## Plasticweld (Nov 12, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> I was thinking about this, two things, mostly as a motorcyclist you are the one who suffers, I have hit a pedestrian quite hard, and we both got bruises, but that was all. The other thing is that the road is open to everyone, that pedestrian was a German woman who looked the wrong way up a one way bit of road and stepped straight off the island, out in front of me, they drive on the other side from us. You simply never know, it is a good rule to never drive so fast that you can not stop in the distance you can see is clear to stop in. What if some little toe rag has decided to run away from home on his skateboard? You might expect relief, but even when it is entirely their fault people get very uptight if you kill their children
> 
> In terms of actual experiences I have come round corners on country lanes and found a dip in the road still filled with frozen slush from the night before when everything else was long melted, a horse with his eyes rolling coming sideways on down the middle of the road with the man on his back trying hard to control him, and a fallen tree completely blocking the road (not all three at once you understand). I bet there are a few things people can add to that little list.



Olly when I ride my motorcycle I am convinced everyone is out to kill me, or just does not see me. 

When I drive the family car it seems to be a matter of, who is assertive enough, they have the right away. 

In my Corvette everyone knows I won't be brave and they pull right out in front of me. 

In my pickup truck everybody gets out of my way. It has one of the big brush guard front bumpers with a crash bar in front. 

In the log truck I think they are suicidal. I am amazed at the number of people that pull out in front of a fully loaded log truck expecting me to be able to stop. 

I have had between 45 to 50 motorcycle wrecks over the years, I have kind of lost count, most have been on the race track a few on the street.  I have hit 16 deer in the last 35 years of living in up state NY.  Never had a car accident involving another car with either the car, the pickup or the log truck. 

I drive fast in everything but the log truck :} 

Driving in snow and with ice covered roads here is pretty common.  I was surprised to hear you talk of snow I did not think it was that common where you live.


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## J.J. Maxx (Nov 13, 2018)

A few years ago I was driving home from work. I live in a rural area with long, sloping hills and straight stretches of backwoods asphalt. I was working the late shift at the time and it was slightly after midnight. I was cruising at a standard clip of roughly 50 mph (80 kmh) as I headed down a large hill toward an intersection. Cornfields filled the surrounding countryside and there was a poultry farm nearby. It was a warm August evening and I could see for a good distance on either side of the crossroads. I saw the vehicle heading toward the intersection from a ways off. I didn't give it any thought. It was a side road so they had a stop sign. He didn't stop.

You hear about car accidents, how everything becomes slow motion. It's true, though. The SUV slammed into the passenger side of my small car perfectly. It's remarkable if you think about it. Every action I had taken that night and that the other driver had taken had set us on a course to collide perfectly on a country road in the middle of the night. There was a split second before the impact where a small, fleeting thought occurred to me. _He's going too fast. _Another thought also sprung in my consciousness. Something I had heard at some point that the reason people were injured in car accidents was because they tightened up. I had heard of inebriated drivers who passed out behind the wheel, were thrown from the vehicle and walked away with minor injuries because they were loose. Looking back, it amazes me that I was able to think all of these things in the flicker of a moment I had before the impact. _Relax yourself, _I thought. 

The impact shattered the windows and spun my car around, crossing the center line and my momentum kept me moving forward, screeching off the opposite side of the road as my car rolled over the embankment and flipped twice before coming to a stop. I located my cell phone and called 911. I was unhurt. I managed to get my door open and crawled up the embankment to the road. I couldn't see the other vehicle. It had driven itself into the nearby trees and almost into a pond. I heard faint cursing and yelling. Cars gradually arrived and pulled over, offering assistance. Someone tried to locate the driver of the other vehicle but the SUV was empty. Splashing was heard as the man swam across the pond and disappeared into the night. I was taken to the hospital out of an abundance of caution and the possibility of adrenaline dampening the severity of any injuries. 

They found the man the next morning, shoeless and without a valid license or insurance. He claimed he had no recollection of the nights events. I eventually received enough money from my insurance company to get another vehicle, but I avoid that intersection and I also find myself being less trusting of intersections. 

It's strange, our society of automobiles. We drive multi-ton hunks of metal at lethal speeds, passing within feet of each other, going in opposite directions and we never question it. There's an unspoken trust in this system. A trust in complete strangers that they won't turn the wheel a few degrees and destroy lives. Sometimes I wonder if cars had been invented in modern age we would think it a ridiculously dangerous idea and disregard it outright.

Perhaps one day we will think of something better. I still enjoy driving, especially down winding country roads, as cliche as that is. There is a beauty in travel, a mystery, but just as in ancient times of mighty sea-faring ships, it is not without dangers.

~ J. J.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 13, 2018)

> Olly when I ride my motorcycle I am convinced everyone is out to kill me, or just does not see me.



Know that feeling, the woman who turned right in front of me claimed she didn't see me, the bike embedded in her car just behind the front wheel and then caught fire, I went over the top and rolled about fifty yards down the road. I was wearing fluorescent yellow from head to toe with a white helmet and I had my headlight on, didn't see me. That was a 250Honda superdream, oh well, the fewer of them on the road the better 


Plasticweld, what were your favourite bikes? The 550 Kawasaki GP was good, as was the Honda 650 NTV, they were shaft drives, good working bikes. Around London my favourite was the Honda 70, smoother than the cub 90, top speed of about 45mph, but it got there quickly and there are not many places in the city you can do much more than that, it also went through traffic like a push bike, my favourite fun bike was a 650 Suzuki GS, the first bike I had that really went round corners no problem, I had 600 and a 750 versions of it as well, but the 650 was the favourite, speed and handling, the 600's were not nearly as nippy and the 750 was a bit heavy. I have had a few LE Velocettes over the years, don't suppose you ever saw one of them in America, LE stood for 'little engine', it had a two hundred cc horizontally opposed twin with a shaft drive and water cooled, like a mini BMW, but it was also built without a chassis, a monocot body in sheet steel with the engine inside it, and running boards and leg guards. Undo six bolts that went right through the body of the bike and you could wheel the front with the body on it and the back with the engine on apart, made it super easy to work on. It went round corners surprisingly quickly, only had a top speed of about 65mph, and was super comfortable to ride, you could literally ride it all day without feeling the wear.


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## Plasticweld (Nov 13, 2018)

Olly, favorite bikes that is a tough one.  A motorcycle for me always represented freedom.  I went from doing a hundred or so miles on my bicycle at 15 to getting a motorcycle and never riding a bicycle again.  My first was a Honda  C90 step thru scooter. I bought it in a box, just a bunch of pieces. I rebuilt it as a science project for school. I spent hours working on it and getting it together and running.  I dreamed of going places on it, wind in my face the road in front of me.  I never really got to ride it, I sold it at the science fair and made a real healthy profit on it.  The next bike was another bike in a box 1968 Kawasaki 120 That I built and rode all over the woods and would take to school and park it out front with the other bikes and the other cool guys of he 70s.
 I had heard about another bike that had an engine locked up a Honda 450 and that became my street bike. I traveled with that bike and it was pretty much trouble free which is always what make any bike special. 

Today I have seven motorcycles, over the years I have owned more than I could count. I used to have a motorcycle company called EmpireGP we repaired wrecked bikes and did body work and sold race bodies. Our company quote on the bottom of all of our ads was, Ride Hard Take Chances we Need the Work!

Last  year I did the endurances series for the light weight super bike class. I have the main race bike which started out life as a Suzuki 650, now weighs 297 pounds and makes 96 hp another detuned bike for the rain then the spare bike for when I crash.  I keep one of my older Yamaha R1s as a street bike, top speed on that is around 200 mph. For going on trips a Triumph Tiger, I call it my old mans bike. For off road a KTM 690 and a Honda 650 L 


I dreamed of owning bikes, riding with friends, going places. When I was a young man I would have never guessed that I would be so fortunate to have had the pleasure of owning so many different kinds of bikes and the friends that go with the sport, my closest friends all ride. 


You have also owned some real classics, the Kawasaki 550 was a man killer, fast but had shit for brakes and suspension. I have riden one a couple of times, lost a friend one on. I  have also owned one of the Suzuki GS models an 80s version the 1100 with the big bore kit, another man killer as far as brakes and suspension goes.  I loved the way the bikes evolved, first make a bike that goes faster than anything else, then design brakes and suspension a few years later to it will stop and turn. 


Until tonight I have never hear of Velocettes and had to google it to see them. It would seem you are as passionate about bikes as I am.


When did you first start riding and have you been on any long trips? Is it as social for you as it is for me?  Some of my best memories are of bike trips with friends...

one of my best friends and racing partner Joe Cotterino


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## Plasticweld (Nov 13, 2018)

J.J. Maxx said:


> It's strange, our society of automobiles. We drive multi-ton hunks of metal at lethal speeds, passing within feet of each other, going in opposite directions and we never question it. There's an unspoken trust in this system. A trust in complete strangers that they won't turn the wheel a few degrees and destroy lives. Sometimes I wonder if cars had been invented in modern age we would think it a ridiculously dangerous idea and disregard it outright.
> J. J.



Thanks for sharing... I have had that exact thought many times.


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## Olly Buckle (Nov 14, 2018)

Plasticweld, Riding for me has usually been a solo experience, with a few notable exceptions. I once did a Royal society for the prevention of accidents advance driving course and test, that was great, a week riding round the countryside every day with an instructor I got to know pretty well, followed by an hour long test with a class one police rider. The police give up their spare time to do it , and give you a several page, detailed, report on the ride, top guys who really know their stuff. I once went to a track day where there were a couple of them, they asked why no-one was riding and when someone said the track was still wet (it had been raining) they said 'Oh we'll dry it out'. Two or three circuits later their tyres had got hot enough to dry a nice pathway all the way around   In their everyday work they ride BMW's with panniers, a mass of equipment, extra batteries and radios on them, and they can still catch most wayward hooligans on an R1, amazing skill levels.

I do have a few friends who ride though, my old mate Alex had a GS1,000, and my long time friend David started a courier company called 'Chain Gang' and still rides a bit. For years he mocked me for my Honda 70's, then became a taxi driver and did the knowledge on a c90, he wouldn't be without it now, they really are an amazing bike, I used to take a no, 10 spanner a bottle of oil, and a screwdriver with me and do a full service on the kerbside in about half an hour, and in London traffic I would leave every other bike standing.


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 4, 2018)

So I am on a two lane dual carriageway doing about the speed limit in the inside lane, people keep overtaking, then someone overtakes, pulls in front of me and puts their brakes on, slowing to about ten miles an hour less than I am doing. Why does this keep happening to me? If they want to go a bit slower than me why break the law to overtake me first? Not only that, I wait the opportunity, overtake doing the limit, settle back into the nearside lane, and they do it again. 
Are they trying to wind me up? Do they feel an older/smaller car should always go a bit slower than them? Are the just idiots?


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## ned (Dec 4, 2018)

you didn't notice the siren and flashing lights?


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 4, 2018)

Sometimes it seems I am the only one who does! I was in a small road with parked cars both sides the other day and stopped for the ambulance about fifty yards off coming the other way. The guy behind me tried to overtake me and had to back up for him. Doh!


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## Thaumiel (Dec 17, 2018)

That car in front of you, yeah that one, it's going to stop suddenly for no reason.


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## Winston (Dec 17, 2018)

My daughter just came back from a holiday in Mexico.  No, not the drunken Cancun kind.  She and her girlfriend slept on the floor of a friends house in Guadalajara.                                                           Bohemian art tourism.    
Anyway, they took Uber to get from place-to-place.  I'm used to the way they drive in many countries, but it was a learning experience for her.
Then, my daughter told her mom about the "assertive" driving there.  My wife was not amused.


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 17, 2018)

People seem to be getting more and more impatient as Christmas approaches. I was in slow moving traffic the other day and stopped for a car that was trying to get out of a tight parking space. He went about fifty yards and turned left, and I caught up with the guy I was behind before. If he hadn't turned off I suppose I would have lost about three seconds. The person behind me though leaned on their horn like he had just missed a wedding or something.
The law in England says you can use your horn to give warning of approach or to draw attention to your direction of travel, not to say 'I am pissed of and want to go faster'.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Olly, my mother is one of those that if you took away her horn, she couldn't drive.

...just like she wouldn't be able to talk if you handcuff her hands behind her.



G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 18, 2018)

Best bits of advice for driving I have ever heard were 'Raise your vision', That's for the sort who overtake  when I stop for blues and twos, they are not checking out the whole road; and "Always drive at a speed you can stop in the distance you can see clear to stop in". That one has saved me a few times, there is a traffic light at Flimwell on the A21 that is right on the brow of a hill, I often see people go over it at 50mph or so. One night I crossed it and came on the bough of an oak tree that must have just come down, it is quite a busy road and it blocked it completely on my side; and there is a long traffic island, no way around it. Another time on my 650 Honda on a country lane I came round a corner and a large grey horse was coming towards me, sideways on, rolling its eyes, with the guy riding it fighting to control it. I pulled into the bank and killed the engine until he had gone past. It was one of those ancient lanes on a slope with high banks where the ground wore away before they black topped them l, they leave you nowhere to go. I was dreading the horse aiming a kick at me as he went past and wondering how much protection leathers give against an iron horse shoe, I know horses don't like full helmets, luckily he didn't.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

The best advice I ever got concerning riding a motorcycle was "Yes; every person on the road with you _is_ trying to kill you."

Keeping that in mind has kept me alive and my skin intact on more than one occasion.

The second best is "Yes; you are invisible the moment you pull out onto a public roadway. But they're still all trying to kill you anyway."



G.D.


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## Bloggsworth (Dec 18, 2018)

Driving into the Blackwall Tunnel at 80mph in pre-speed limit days, came across a driver reversing out in the fast lane...

Best avice from my Dad "_Always leave a cyclist room to fall over_..."


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Driving a bike at 60+ mph  behind an uncovered flatbed truck full of sand in August, with no way or means of passing : Not the place to be.

Been there, done that. Wished I'd had a full-faced helmet at the time.



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Driving a late 1970s 280-Z at 150 mph hour down highway 109 in Gallitin Tn, and hitting a box turtle crossing the road: Interesting, but terrifying, given I had no idea how things were about to go when the ass-end kicked out.

( Fortunately all was well, and I'm still here, obviously. )



G.D.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 18, 2018)

Winning a drag race against a mid-70s Pontiac Trans Am on a public street in a 1974 Maverick Grabber with a 302 cu engine and a three speed transmission : Dumbest damn thing I've probably ever done in a vehicle. But also probably the most satisfying.



G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 19, 2018)

Going down the M11 to Cambridge on a LE Velocette and it started snowing heavily, got tucked in behind a truck and followed it for a bit, must have been close enough to get in his slip stream as I boiled over in sub-zero temperatures.

My best reaction, I was coming down the road and the stationary car in the middle of the road turned in front of me. I broke my leg on the handlebar, but the motorcycle cop that attended said "I can't understand, if you were coming down the main road there how come you ended up in the side road?". I said "I did my best to miss her, he went off and charged her with driving without due care. The bit I am really proud of though was lying waiting for the ambulance and some idiot said, "Well, what do you expect, it was a woman and she's black" and I replied "I've got enough problems so you can fuck off with your racist misogynistic shit". I don't usually swear, but I did have a broken femur, and I remembered a word like 'misogynistic', quite proud of that.


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## Winston (Dec 23, 2018)

I got my mom's '72 Chevelle airborne once.  That's not easy, since it's not a light car, and there were six of us in it at the time.  
Somehow didn't break the suspension upon landing.  God looks out after puppies and drunks.


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## Plasticweld (Dec 23, 2018)

In my youth, not that I am any smarter today. I rolled my 1969 Saab 99 over 6 times in the middle of the road after not making a corner on a winding and twisting road, that I loved to practice my driving on.  The police counted the skip marks were the roof touched the pavement.  It was a car I was turning into an ice racer for the lake that winter.  The worst part of the whole deal was that my wife was on her way home and came upon the wreck and just assumed I was dead, and she was now a very young widow.  

I got chewed out by the police, no tickets but the car was demolished, I really did like that little car.


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## Winston (Dec 23, 2018)

I didn't know Saabs were good for anything.  Learn sumptin' new every day.


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 23, 2018)

I had one where a woman turned right in front of me on a main road and my bike embedded into the side of her car at sixty miles an hour and then burst into flames. The guy who had sold me the bike the day before came past the wreck and recognised the back number plate, which was about the only thing recognisable. He assumed I was dead as well. luckily I went straight over the top and rolled about 50yards down the road, ruined a £4oo helmet, split it right open, but I was relatively untouched. I came to to find a woman undoing the helmet, it was a BMW one, one of the first where the chin guard lifted so you didn't have to take it off to resuscitate, and I told her to stop. She said 'It's alright, I am a doctor', and I replied that she should know better than to take it off in unsterile conditions and what if I had a broken skull?' She vanished quite quickly after that. Pissed me off thoroughly though, pay that much for a helmet and someone who should know better simply by-passes all the safety factors built into it. 

If you find a motorcyclist who has had an accident, tell him to leave his helmet on. There have been cases where the skull has been smashed to bits, but the helmet is holding it all together. Take it off and they die, leave it on and they will carefully cut it off in the hospital and be ready to give immediate treatment.


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## Plasticweld (Dec 23, 2018)

Winston said:


> I didn't know Saabs were good for anything.  Learn sumptin' new every day.



Back in the 70s it was one of the few front wheel drive cars available. The Saab as a ice racer was perfect, light, just enough horse power and a good transmission for ice racing, it had what they called a semi automatic transmission that could be either used as  manual or auto. Plus they were ugly as sin, so very affordable for a young wanna be racer.


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## ppsage (Dec 24, 2018)

Okay youse guys convinced me, I'm selling my car and turning in my license. There's way too many crazies out there.


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## Guard Dog (Dec 24, 2018)

ppsage said:


> Okay youse guys convinced me, I'm selling my car and turning in my license. There's way too many crazies out there.



And you're in _here_ with us... :twisted:


G.D.


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## Kevin (Dec 24, 2018)

Just as it was getting dark on a twisty top-of-the/hill, semi-secret path road with multiple wrong options I shut my lights off to lose an uber. 

It happened the other day. It just came to me after being stuck behind this uber while he blocked the road apparently trying to figure out how to actually drive a car (pull to the right, stop, reverse, forward, 1, 2, 3, 4-5 miles per hour...)  

At a wide spot, I passed him, multiple 'light' horn honking as I went to alert him (...that there was another vehicle on the road, right there next to him) ( and perhaps to the possibility that other people exist in the universe) to no avail: he neither slowed, nor sped up, nor altered his line of driving which had been and continued to be right up the middle of the barely-lane-and-a-half wide road. 

 I did not want him to follow me (out) and therefor become familiar, so I sped up some while shutting off my headlamps  for the next three or four turns or until I was sure he wouldnt see me anymore when I turned them back on. 
Felt like my civic duty.

What? A car coming the other way... Well, I would've seen their lights, wouldn't I? Hopefully, 
...
Just as an aside...most times when I type 'lamo' I don't mean to type lmao. Oh de-uh.


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## Winston (Dec 24, 2018)

ppsage said:


> Okay youse guys convinced me, I'm selling my car and turning in my license. There's way too many crazies out there.



Too many stories to recount.  Think _The Dukes of Hazzard _meets _The Hangover_.  I'm Cletus / Alan in that scenario.  
Our parting instructions were always "Keep the dirty side down".

And GD, the fact that ANY of us are here... right?


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## Guard Dog (Dec 24, 2018)

Winston said:


> And GD, the fact that ANY of us are here... right?



The whole reason I'm not afraid of anything, and can't be scared, probably comes down to the fact that I _know_ I should already be dead. 

...many times over, by now.


G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 24, 2018)

ppsage said:


> Okay youse guys convinced me, I'm selling my car and turning in my license. There's way too many crazies out there.



That is a great idea, when people tell me they have passed their driving test they seem surprised I do not congratulate them; "Huh, just what the planet needs, another driver.' Now, if only there were a few hundred thousand more like you, I could have a clear road and there wouldn't be global warming   Read somewhere the other day that the amount of fuel used to lift a passenger aircraft is the same as if the passengers each took their own cars, how much more fun if four or you took a car, shared the driving; and saved three people's worth of fuel?


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## Guard Dog (Dec 24, 2018)

Olly Buckle said:


> ...how much more fun if four or you took a car, shared the driving; and saved three people's worth of fuel?



Having once been trapped in a full-size custom van with several of my in-laws for a 9 hour trip, I can honestly say 'not very', in the 'fun' department.

After the first hour I volunteered to drive the rest of the way, just to be out of harm's way when the sisters started fighting.
( No, I'm not talking about nuns here... Unless they also refer to female members of satanic cults as sisters or nuns, in which case... )


G.D.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 2, 2019)

Olly Buckle said:


> Another time on my 650 Honda on a country lane I came round a corner and a large grey horse was coming towards me, sideways on, rolling its eyes, with the guy riding it fighting to control it. I pulled into the bank and killed the engine until he had gone past. It was one of those ancient lanes on a slope with high banks where the ground wore away before they black topped them l, they leave you nowhere to go. I was dreading the horse aiming a kick at me as he went past and wondering how much protection leathers give against an iron horse shoe, I know horses don't like full helmets, luckily he didn't.



Olly, I'll share that country road with you any day when I'm on horseback! Quite a few years ago now I was crossing a four-lane commuter highway with some friends so we could reach the rest of the riding trails near our barn. All of our horses are accustomed to heavy traffic. We had good visibility and a clear road in either direction, and we begin to cross. We're two lanes and a median into the crossing when this idiot races towards, us blasting his horn, slams on his breaks, stops in front of us, and starts screaming at us to get off the road and go to Texas or hell or wherever. Geesh! (The horses were all blase about the whole thing--they just wanted to watch the deer and stretch their legs a little.) Now, traffic by this time had just caught up to us in the lanes we had crossed. The amazing thing was--and I have no idea why this sticks so vividly in my mind--while this guy was using his vehicle to block our crossing (he was punching it forwards and reverse as he was screaming at us), thankfully a couple of semi drivers saw what was going on and halted traffic. (This was before cell phones were in everyone's pockets, otherwise I'm sure it would have gone viral.)

So, sure, there are a lot of crazies out there, but there are also a lot of decent folk out there, too. Sometimes they don't get the credit they deserve.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 3, 2019)

Ouch, I always pass horses wide and slow, they are intelligent animals and have all sorts of individual quirks. Camera phones are great that way, there have been a couple of cases of people prosecuted over here for outrageous diatribes on trains and in public places, and they must even make police think about their behaviour sometimes. Could be a good story there


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 7, 2019)

There is a certain sort of passenger who gets off a bus, walks to the back, walks out into the road behind it and stands in the middle of the road looking to cross; then the bus drives away and they don't realise but just stands there in the middle of the road.


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## Plasticweld (Jan 7, 2019)

Olly, I am sure there could be a thread title 'Passengers From Hell'  I pick up hitchhikers, I would never drive by one, some real interesting stories. I also traveled a lot during over the years, if you want to get to know someone, spend 10 hours in a confined space together in bad weather.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 8, 2019)

I also pick up hitchhikers, but I hardly ever see them nowadays. I remember when I was young you would get half a dozen people waiting their turn at a big junction.


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## Kevin (Jan 8, 2019)

Last time I picked up a hitch hiker was '84. She asked if I wanted ...ehem..never mind. I apologized for interrupting her work schedule. If you come here, do not pick up hitchhikers, ever, unless of course...


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## Plasticweld (Jan 8, 2019)

I have hitch hiked thousands of miles. I viewed it as an adventure and also knew my responsibility was to entertain.  People picked my up because they were bored, or they had hitch hiked themselves. I had some great experiences and made a real effort to get to know the people that picked my up. It was was a great way to learn some interviewing skills, and practice the lost art of conversation with strangers. 

Back in the 60s and 70s it was far more common, today I think the cops hassle you far more.  I was always a clean cut kid with a big smile.  When I used to go from Maine to Massachusetts every other weekend to see Linda, I could make better time than if I drove.  Plus gas was 36 cents a gallon and I wasn't wasting any money when I could have an adventure in the process.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 8, 2019)

> Back in the 60s and 70s it was far more common, today I think the cops hassle you far more


Very common over here then, hardly ever see it now, but I don't think it is the cops. Mostly it seems like people have got scared, someone sussed that fear is a good motivator for some things and set out to raise fears; that was one thing, another was corporate fear, insurance companies started insisting that commercial drivers didn't pick people up, as did haulage companies. Combined with it being more difficult to get a lift came fear on the other side too, people were not going to go out and ask some random stranger for a lift, they saw that as asking for trouble. There has also been an increase in prosperity and car ownership.


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## Plasticweld (Jan 8, 2019)

the-psychology-of-hitch-hiking.  A great read about hitch hiking.   I fall under the category of
*
Type 4: the vagabond.*
[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I probably fall under this category. People like me simply enjoy this mode of travel—we like meeting people, swapping stories and life-experience, engaging with fellow human beings, and we like to travel overland to get a sense of place. We also don’t like spending money if we don’t have to, because it leaves funds for VASTLY more important things like beer and cappuccinos. Basically, we have our priorities sorted. We also tend to look pretty “normal”—the more normal and unassuming we can manage to appear, the higher the chances you’ll pick us up. Yup: it’s a conscious strategy. You suckers.[/FONT]

[FONT=Lucida Grande, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I would be curious as to your thoughts on the article. [/FONT]


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 10, 2019)

Plasticweld said:


> the-psychology-of-hitch-hiking. A great read about hitch hiking. I fall under the category of
> *
> Type 4: the vagabond.*



I am one of those drivers who will not stop for anyone. (Might have something to do with the prison nearby where I grew up...the school regularly warned students who drove not to stop for anyone, and as if to drive the point home, we also kind-a regularly had helicopters overhead searching the woods for escapees.) 

However, my husband used to tell me for years how where he lived hitch-hiking was a common practice. So we moved there and, sure enough, I soon learned to recognize the folks who regularly thumbed their way into town. (Did he hitch-hike or pick up hitch-hikers?? Well, yeah...to which I nagged him about it to no end!) These were older folks in a rural community who tended to be fairly well-known to the community. I guess you could say it was part of the local welfare system, as you could always ask so-and-so about that whoever and figure out if picking them up would be safe, who's car was broke down, who didn't have a car, and so-on and so-forth. 

My father-in-law used to ride the rails when he was a boy. Not part of the ruck-sack generation himself (too young), I hear he often met some of the old hobos (WWI vets) and would talk with them. Because of it, he developed quite a fondness for trains. We recently donated his extensive train and memorabilia collection to a museum where much of it is now on display for the public.


(You know, this could be a really interesting writing prompt: write about the time your car was in the garage for a month and your only way into town was if you hitch-hiked.  Or: write about the most interesting person you have ever met while traveling.)


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## Plasticweld (Jan 10, 2019)

Megan, I have many warm memories of conversations and people that I met over the years. I am glad I got to experience it, sad that so few will ever have the chance.  I think today social skills are really lacking, the art of developing a conversation with a complete stranger from a different culture or age group missing from those under 30...maybe just my old man perspective.  It also. may be the development of the electronic age, Who writes letters anymore, who sits and shares stories with a stranger at a bar or diner.  Today is is all about what is on your facebook page or twitter feed.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 10, 2019)

Different times and technologies do develop different habits. In the late 1920's when my mother was at university my grandmother started one of the first youth hostels. There were too few cars for hitching in those days. Travel was by boat and train and expensive, so a lot of the foreign students came and stayed at the Hostel, it was an old manor house near Yalding. Mum was a letter writer, she wrote about half a dozen most days, and she kept in touch with these people, we regularly had visitors from all over Europe when I was a boy. Now, they would get on a plane and fly home, in the sixties they might have hitched.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 10, 2019)

*Plasticweld*, the first time I realized the younger generation had a serious problem was when my step-children were visiting (about a dozen years ago or so now). They sat across the table playing cards together as they thumbed at their blackberries...for hours in silence. It was really strange. I am happy to say that the one child outgrew the technological addiction and now has a happy family of her own...but the other? He's probably living somewhere out there in the internet as speak. :sad: (Speaking hyperbolically, of course!)

*Olly*, all of the visitors you had as a child, that must have been some education! In this technological tradeoff, I think what we are loosing is so much more than what we are gaining. Simply on the topic of conversation, which you both have brought up, I wonder how much of our humanity we have sacrificed in gaining some of these supposed advancements.

Personally, I would vote for a slower pace of life. More time to write, more time to chat (face-to-face) with friends. 

Less time driving!


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## Guard Dog (Jan 10, 2019)

Megan Pearson said:


> Less time driving!



That's great, unless you live 12 miles from anything that remotely looks like 'civilization', like I do.

Granted, I could get by just fine with a horse or two, since I don't go into town more than a couple of times a month anyway... but horses are walking bundles of stomach/digestive problems. Between that and their hooves, even a 20 year old car or truck with a couple of hundred thousand miles on it is a pillar of dependability when compared to the average equine.

Also, if I don't drive, I'll have to start doin' in the local wildlife for my meals. And I'd really rather not.
( It's a shame cannibalism is so bad for the human body and mind... I could probably live off my neighbors for many years before anyone noticed. )

One thing I do wish though, was that the manufacturers would stop making vehicles so... disposable. I miss the old days, when the average car had been on the road for decades, not just years.

Along those lines, I've been eyeballin' a '66 Chevy Impala one of the local car lots has for sale.

The thing's only a few years younger than I am, but it's the sort of car I could keep runnin' all by myself, probably for the rest of my life.
( You almost have to have a degree in electrical engineering, and several thousand dollars worth of diagnostic equipment, these days, to do anything at all to most of the vehicles currently on the road. )

One way or the other, I'd personally prefer fewer people around me, and have to drive a bit further. I'd be quite content to let most folks live in those 'people hives' called cities, where everything is right under their noses, rather than have 'em up under my nose, and filling up their countryside with their ugly-ass houses, and tryin' to convince everybody they're something they're not.

...even if that meant I had to drive more/further to be rid of 'em.


G.D.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 10, 2019)

Guard Dog said:


> That's great, unless you live 12 miles from anything that remotely looks like 'civilization', like I do.



What a great opportunity to walk! Imagine, losing all those holiday pounds in less than a month?



Guard Dog said:


> Along those lines, I've been eyeballin' a '66 Chevy Impala one of the local car lots has for sale.



(BTW, if that desparate, you could eat 'the horse or two'...) Personally, I'm all for a VW Karmann Ghia, with lots of chrome. If some 14-year-old kid can learn how to rebuild one from U-Tube, I most certainly can! Someday. After I write my Great American Novel... 

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but it seems to me that Americans have lost the 'fun' in driving. Oh, it's here and there. (At least those in the classic car circles, and Jeep drivers have it.) But overall, all our cars look the same from year to year and model to model, and let's face it, we drive because we have to. My being in the car either means I'm going to work or stopping at the grocery store on the way back from work. It's all very...utilitarian. 

A '66 Chevy sounds like a fun rebuild project. My brother-in-law just finished rebuilding his father's...(really old & very cool, very red pickup--a GMC? I forget what it was.) It purrs like a kitten. With teeth. 

(I hate being a pedestrian & not being able to hear the approach of those hybrid or electric cars.)



Guard Dog said:


> ( You almost have to have a degree in electrical engineering, and several thousand dollars worth of diagnostic equipment, these days, to do anything at all to most of the vehicles currently on the road. )



Just think, the benefit of owning a stick-shift these days! No one else knows how to drive them anymore!!! They come with their own Millenial anti-theft device! (Sorry, Millenies!)


Regarding ticky-tacky-ville, you neglected the windmills. We just drove across the country and they are everywhere. I think the land use policies those corporations are pushing are causing a lot of problems for farmers and their independent use of their own land, just based on the signs we passed. It's something we will be looking into before buying anything again anywhere scenic with elbow-room.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 11, 2019)

My old friend gardener Derek who made 'The balcony' series of videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z0KO3eVTpU has died of lung cancer and left his Citroen 2CV to my daughter, apparently they had an enthusiastic conversation about them at my birthday party a few years ago. He bought it new and did all his own servicing on it, a lot of work for her, but she is delighted.

PS. GD, have you thought of a pushbike? Far more reliable than a horse, very efficient energy conversion, and the sort of heart lung exercise that will keep you going into your nineties.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 11, 2019)

Megan, I hate to break it to ya, but if you walked the 12 miles between here and town on a regular basis, you'd probably end up either gaining weight, or 'rearranging' it, due to the terrain. ( It's all hills and valleys here. )

The end result would likely be that you ended up with thighs like a speed skater; solid muscle, and out of proportion to your build.

And Olly, due to what I've just told Megan, and the fact I'd probably get run over by some jackass dragging a boat down the road at 70 mph, you won't find many non-motorized bikes of any kind around here.

...and that's not even taking into account the fact I doubt the nerve damage I'm dealing with would let me get away with any such endeavor. I'm afraid I require transportation that uses some power plant other than my own, these days, at least for a trip that long.

( Remember, my muscles and bones are fine, but my 'wiring harness' leaves much to be desired. )



G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 12, 2019)

Something I have been considering is an electric bike. You can get a unit that replaces the front wheel of any bike and is a lot cheaper than buying a special bike. I think 24 miles would be the extreme end of battery range mind, and it wouldn't deal with the idiots towing boats    This is the Weald, officially an area of outstanding beauty, with a castle down the road dating from the mid 1300's, so there are plenty of people on bikes and most drivers treat them quite reasonably. I am about five or six miles from the station here, but there is no public transport to it. A bus comes once an hour but that goes into Hastings, about ten miles further down the train line, and the last one back is about 5.30 pm, so no use for visiting people in London.

I have always worn hi-vis on a bike, I used to pick them up all the time when I rode a motorbike. workmen sling them in the back of the truck and the first time they go down a steep hill they get blown out. The thing I see everywhere nowadays are those foam tubes that scaffolders wrap around poles at pavement level. I have been wracking my brains trying to think of a use for about eight foot long foam tubes with a split down the side.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 12, 2019)

The problem with a bike of any kind is that it would put me making more trips out.

Yeah, I've gone grocery shopping on this...




...including strapping a 50 pound bag of dog food on the seat behind me, after I got the saddle bags loaded, but that's still not the usual 2 weeks to a month's worth that I like to bring home in one trip.

And it's also not a helluva lot of fun in freezing weather. :-(

Still, it was always fast enough to get out of the way of any idiots I needed to dodge.

So it looks like, given my particular situation, I'm stuck with needing a car, even if were only one of those shoe box-sized 'Smart Cars'.

( I also have to take a dog to the vet, every now and then, which is 12 or 13 miles in the _other_ direction. )


G.D.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 13, 2019)

Hey Olly, was driving through the slush in a wet snowfall today when I saw some horseback riders waiting to cross the road. So I slowed up for them--and the guy behind me nearly drove in through my back window! At first I thought it was because it was slick and he was driving too close, then I realized you could tell this guy was t'd off. Me, stopping in the middle of a perfectly good road! He went to floor it, to dash into oncoming traffic--where he screeched to a halt. There's something about facing off with three large equines spanning the road, nose to tail, that still brings a measure of a reality check to some people. (Geesh!)

(I thought this ironic after writing about it just last week.)


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## Guard Dog (Jan 13, 2019)

Megan Pearson said:


> There's something about facing off with three large equines spanning the road, nose to tail, that still brings a measure of a reality check to some people. (Geesh!)



I've seen what happens when an irate horse kicks a vehicle that passes too close for it's liking.

...those hooves can certainly make a mess out of a quarterpanel. 
( Another couple of reasons I wouldn't wanna ride a bicycle around here; Horseshit and steel-shod hooves. ale: )



G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 13, 2019)

Megan Pearson said:


> Hey Olly, was driving through the slush in a wet snowfall today when I saw some horseback riders waiting to cross the road. So I slowed up for them--and the guy behind me nearly drove in through my back window! At first I thought it was because it was slick and he was driving too close, then I realized you could tell this guy was t'd off. Me, stopping in the middle of a perfectly good road! He went to floor it, to dash into oncoming traffic--where he screeched to a halt. There's something about facing off with three large equines spanning the road, nose to tail, that still brings a measure of a reality check to some people. (Geesh!)
> 
> (I thought this ironic after writing about it just last week.)



'Raise your vision', one of the best pieces of advice going, you need to be aware of what is happening in the whole road, not just the piece right in front you want to drive in. The number of times I have stopped for some reason and the car behind has gone to overtake like that , then had to back up for something they really should have seen, like a wide load covered in yellow lights or blues and twos on an ambulance. Three horses sideways on with no lights, horns or reflectors almost seems something it might be excusable to miss   

The best one I remember was on my way to Battle, (The name of our local town, not literally) and there was a car stopped on a corner. I stopped behind to see what he would do and as he pulled away the car behind gunned it past us both on the corner. We came round the corner to find the guy in front of me was the back car of a five which had been waiting to follow a hearse pulling out of a small layby. Instead of dropping back he then tried to overtake all five and the hearse before the next corner, he didn't make it and had to stop very quickly for the police car coming round it    I would have loved to hear the ensuing conversation, the police car door was opening as I went past.


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## Winston (Jan 13, 2019)

Guard Dog said:


> Yeah, I've gone grocery shopping on this...
> 
> ...And it's also not a helluva lot of fun in freezing weather. :-(
> 
> G.D.



I have a decent sized top box on the back of my Honda cruiser for groceries.  Never been a fan of saddle bags, just not large enough to carry anything.  
But ice on the road, I draw the line.  I ride in wet and cold, just not that.  Car drivers will slam on their brakes, and make you slide like a puck along the ice.  Happened to a guy I used to commute with.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 13, 2019)

Panniers can be handy, especially the throw over ones that fit close and go over your arm when you get off the bike. The hard ones stick out a bit, you have to remember they are there, I've left one on a skip going though a narrow gap a bit quickly.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 13, 2019)

Guard Dog said:


> I've seen what happens when an irate horse kicks a vehicle that passes too close for it's liking.
> 
> ...those hooves can certainly make a mess out of a quarterpanel.
> ( Another couple of reasons I wouldn't wanna ride a bicycle around here; Horseshit and steel-shod hooves. ale: )
> ...



Those hooves can also make a mess out of me, too. While you generally learn where not to leave your own toes, one time I didn't step quick enough out of the way of a foal's kick. Wow, was that painful. 

Bicyclists! Yah, the horses generally don't like the sounds of the spokes. Here's a story I heard second-hand:

So, many, many years ago, some of my riding friends were out for a hack one fine summer's day. I think it was on an old rail bed converted into a trail. The land on the south edge of the trail shot up a steep hill and the north side it was bushy and green, hiding a fifteen-foot plummet to the world beneath. How I heard it, some bicyclists came up pretty fast on the horses. (These are the same well-trained, quiet ones I wrote about a couple of weeks ago). I have no idea how this happened, but one of the bicyclists plowed into one of the horses! Somehow, both bicyclist and bike ended up under the horse. Poor horse! Thankfully, this was absolutely the best horse for this bike rider's unfortunate accident to have happened to--sweet horse, but not too smart. The bicyclist exploded from the ground (one would hope from embarrassment, but these days you never know) and began cussing out the horseback rider to move the horse away from where it was standing over his bike. This would have meant stepping into the shrubbery. The only problem was, with the other horses and bicycles crowding the narrow causeway, only the horseback rider could see from her vantage point that the shrubbery was just a screen. As she tried explaining this, the bicyclist just got hotter, demanding she move the horse. So, she did. She gave our intrepid little gelding a kick and CRUNCH! 

That bike never went anywhere ever again.


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## Guard Dog (Jan 13, 2019)

Winston said:


> I have a decent sized top box on the back of my Honda cruiser for groceries.  Never been a fan of saddle bags, just not large enough to carry anything.
> But ice on the road, I draw the line.  I ride in wet and cold, just not that.  Car drivers will slam on their brakes, and make you slide like a puck along the ice.  Happened to a guy I used to commute with.



My favorite 'Grocery-getter':


'97 Honda PC-800

It had a 'trunk' in the rear that would hold about as much as 3 or 4 typical saddle bags. I bought it in '99, with less than 100 miles on it, rode it for years, then sold it for what I paid for it.

Wish I still had it.

Oh, and Winston... You've probably figured out by now that I never 'Puck around'. 



Megan Pearson said:


> one time I didn't step quick enough out of the way of a foal's kick. Wow, was that painful.



I had something similar happen to me when I was about 16... Only it was a young bull, about 200 pounds, that we were gelding.

He figure out what was up, I guess, and tried to go back up the chute. I grabbed both his back legs and started haulin' him back out of it.

This maneuver works quite well, so long as you keep their legs pulled straight out behind 'em, and don't let 'em pull 'em up underneath 'em to kick. With this little genius though, not so much.

He took several fast steps backwards with his front legs, letting his body catch up with his rear hooves, then shot those suckers straight back out into my middle, knocking me about 10 feet, with him flying back up the chute, back into the truck, and away from all of us.

We did get him in the end, but I walked around for about 2 weeks with two perfectly hoof-shaped bruises just under the bottom of my ribs and sternum. :-|

( If he'd landed that kick 6 inches higher, I'd have gotten some broken ribs outta the deal. )



G.D.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 17, 2019)

So the D of E has had an accident, and all the news people are saying 'He is old, he should give up driving', not in so many words, but that is the gist of it. It might be true, but being old does not automatically disqualify you from driving well. There was a programme a little while ago about elderly drivers, some were atrocious, but there was one lady of a hundred and five I think it was, who did her yoga daily and was bright, with it, and according to the examiner who tested her an excellent driver. People shouldn't pre-judge, I am sure that particular accident will be one of the best investigated ever.


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 18, 2019)

Okay, Olly, here's a true story you will appreciate. My father-in-law returns to his hometown village to visit after an absence of many years. While there, he finds his ancient, 90-something-year-old uncle looking quite despondant. "What's wrong?" He asks him. "I can't go no-where anymore," ancient uncle replies. "Now all I have to do is sit around here all day. Not only can't I go no-where, I've got no one to talk to anymore. You see, the kids, they took away my burro."


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 18, 2019)

And unlike a machine it would probably have known where to go and got there on its own if he went to sleep at the controls


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## Megan Pearson (Jan 18, 2019)

Okay. Here's a new one. People who drive too fast on snowy roads. If they can't push you out'a the way, they go around you--which would seem to make sense except for their choosing to do that right before a well-marked blind curve. 

Not too smart.


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