# Learning to write by reading



## Deleted member 49710 (Oct 26, 2012)

More than once I've seen the advice that the best way to learn to write is to read a whole lot, to see what other writers do and how they do it. So, here's a question: What's a work (a novel or story or poem or whatever) that taught you something important? And what did you learn?


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## shadowwalker (Oct 26, 2012)

I don't think I could point to a single book. It's more an accumulation of insights gained by reading both widely and having favorite authors - it's a gradual "osmosis" type of learning. At least that's how I'd describe it for me.


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## dolphinlee (Oct 26, 2012)

I think I learned a lot about writing humour from reading the Terry Pratchet books.


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## Fin (Oct 26, 2012)

Like Shadowwalker, I can't just choose one - or any, for that matter. Reading is an almost unconscious learning tool for me. I don't exactly realize I've learned much of anything until it's applied to my work.


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## garza (Oct 26, 2012)

This made me stop and think. Only in the past few years have I made any serious effort at writing fiction after writing non-fiction for all these years. All my life I've been a heavy reader of both fiction and non-fiction, and find that I have to repeat what shadowwalker said. Every book, story, essay, poem, green paper, white paper, CabSec Report, Police SitRep, and budget speech I've ever read has taught me something about writing. Of course there are the obvious learning tools such as _Hart's Rules_ and _Fowler's Modern English Usage_, but they don't count in the way the OP meant, I'm sure. 

Instead of one book, I'll name two and one short story. The book that comes first to mind is _Absalom, Absalom_ by William Faulkner. When I was a kid I memorised great swaths of the text, often not understanding the meaning but loving the way the words worked together. The second book is _Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_ by James Joyce. This I didn't read until I was about 13, halfway through high school, which I believe is about the right age for first exposure to some of the ideas presented. Needless to say both books have had repeated readings over the years. The short story is Hemingway's 'A Clearn, Well-Lighted, Place'. To me, with its heavy dependence on dialogue, illustrates the nearly perfect way to tell a story.    

But even as I write this, other books, other stories, other works of all kinds come to mind. So not a single book, but a lifetime's catalogue of reading would have to be included as works that have taught me something about writing. And like most of you, I continue to learn.


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## Jon M (Oct 26, 2012)

Most fiction I've learned from by just absorbing, mimicking. Bukowski's book _Tales of Ordinary Madness_ helped me when I was first beginning -- just a low bar that seemed attainable at the time. But the only books I can think of where I could point a finger and say I LEARNED SOMETHING! are the ones on the craft. And I'm reading one right now, coincidentally, which I feel is very good and has given me much thought and that book is called _Reading Like a Writer_, by Francine Prose.

And, of course, from here I tend to pick up gems from lovely Loulou and Mr. Chris Miller! (crowd goes wild) and Mr. Joey B.


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## GonneLights (Oct 26, 2012)

Much like Garza, my feelings point me towards one book in my early adolescence, a work of James Joyce. Though I never finished it, it was the single most defining book and it made me realise just _how _I wanted to write. Finnegan's Wake. Everything after that, Burroughs, Kerouac, Tzara, Zhangzhou - anyone who I point to as an influence for my walking the slippery quays of the avant-garde; if it wasn't for that moment of ecstasy on opening Finnegan's Wake, I wouldn't have given two sods about any of them.

EDIT: This is worded more about influence than learning. I do _mean _learning. I learnt what writing _could _be from Finnegan's Wake. It could be something I never thought possible, and that'd go on to define every alley I'd look to learn from then on. I used to get '?/50' on my English papers, probably because of that book.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Oct 26, 2012)

Oddly enough, by the time I would've read books to learn from them, I had nearly completely given up reading.  I still read the odd book here and there, but I haven't learned anything from any author except C. S. Lewis.  His writing is just refined enough to sound classy without going over my head, and his descriptions are just informative enough that I understand the scene without being overwhelmed.  His dialogue is there to advance the story, nothing more.  His writing is profound without being preachy.

I'd like to say Lewis influenced my style, but then I'd be comparing my writing to his.  I doubt I even come close.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Oct 26, 2012)

To answer my own question, now that I've had time to think about it: the thing that comes to mind first is Isak Dinesen's story "The Roads Around Pisa," in _Seven Gothic Tales, _because it was probably the first thing I read where you absolutely had to read between the lines and work to interpret the characters' words in order to even understand what had happened and why. Not saying that I want to replicate what she did, but it had never before occurred to me to really make a reader work for meaning. And that the reader might actually enjoy the story more for having worked to find it.

I'd agree also with those that say it's more the cumulative effect of everything you read that is most influential and beneficial - but sometimes you do read something that shows you a different approach or technique that you might not have seen otherwise.


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## Sam (Oct 26, 2012)

It's not that you learn to write by reading. You learn to write by writing. What I believe reading does is expand your vocabulary, enhance your grammar, and improve your command of the language. You learn new turns of phrases, words, and techniques. It's only natural that when you apply these to your work, the writing will improve. 

That being said, I don't think either one has a monopoly on the other. Making time for writing is equally as important as doing so for reading.


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## Mutimir (Oct 26, 2012)

From the book _This Side of Paradise _I learned about the significance of passion in writing. Fitzgerald also used different styles to enhance certain sections of the book. He's never let me down. I've learned a lot form reading his novels and stories.


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## HarryG (Oct 27, 2012)

Sam W said:


> It's not that you learn to write by reading. You learn to write by writing. What I believe reading does is expand your vocabulary, enhance your grammar, and improve your command of the language. You learn new turns of phrases, words, and techniques. It's only natural that when you apply these to your work, the writing will improve.
> 
> That being said, I don't think either one has a monopoly on the other. Making time for writing is equally as important as doing so for reading.



  I think the writing sort of follows on from the reading, for a writer.  I got the urge to write as a teenager and haven't stopped since, but the reading has followed me all the way through.

  There have been odd times when I purposely copied a favourite author, and all those efforts led to disaster.  

  You do need to stop prevaricating at some stage, put the books down, switch off the internet and switch on the word processor.  Perhaps I should add, unkindly, that social networking needs to stop for a time, the writing time.

  That's the hardest part nowadays, in my case anyway, to try and switch the world off when I can hear the buzzing from cyberspace, the dogs want walking and some kind person is frying sausages in the kitchen.   

  (Nice to read your writing again, Sam).


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## Nickleby (Oct 27, 2012)

Like so many other things about writing, what works for one person may not work for another. If you enjoy ponderous epics about country estates where not much really happens, and you intend to write stories like that, you should read as many of those stories as you can stomach. If you want to write about a vampire who considers his condition a disease and wants to cure it, you'd waste your time reading country estate epics. Unless, for some reason, you want to write your vampire story _in the style of_ a country estate epic.

I would agree with Garza, though, that you can learn from almost every piece of text you read, _as long as you're paying attention_. Often, what you learn is what not to do, at least what you yourself don't want to do.

One big reason for reading in your chosen genre is to familiarize yourself with the tropes of the genre. You'd be insane to write fantasy, for instance, without ever reading _The Lord of the Rings_. In that sense you're doing research, not just reading to entertain yourself. Writing is work. Such reading is a form of studying. Your reading life should involve gathering your materials (tropes) and your tools (ways to arrange words) for your personal toolbox.

It's a truism in writing that there are only seven basic plots. Most of the things in your toolbox you will borrow from works you like or from the basic guidelines of writing, so you won't contribute much that is new. Your arrangement, and your interpretation, of borrowed things will make your work stand out.


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## Morkonan (Oct 27, 2012)

lasm said:


> More than once I've seen the advice that the best way to learn to write is to read a whole lot, to see what other writers do and how they do it. So, here's a question: What's a work (a novel or story or poem or whatever) that taught you something important?



That's hard to say. See, there are things I thought I knew from reading a work of fiction and then there are things I only learned from that work after reading it as a writer would read it. In short - A writer has to read as a writer, not a reader, in order to glean writing wisdom from a good book of fiction.

For myself, reading books on writing has helped a great deal. Particularly, anything by James Scott Bell or Donald Maass. Being illuminated by a good book on writing and then returning to a good book of fiction to see the principles in action for the first time is a true teaching moment.



> And what did you learn?



Nothing that I did not already know. Instead, I learned to identify certain techniques and learned how such principles can be successfully applied. I know what an appendectomy is and could vaguely describe the procedure to someone else, with some errors. But, I couldn't perform such a surgery and couldn't likely give anyone any worthwhile instruction on how to efficiently accomplish it. But, having seen certain principles identified and discussed, with certain common techniques laid bare, and having worked with examples and through exercises that further demonstrate certain techniques, I'm now much more able to identify these techniques in use and am better able to use my knowledge to perform them, myself.

Reading "a lot" won't help a writer until they can learn to read like a writer and learn to identify what techniques a writer is using, even if they're novel ones. "Eureka" moments only come to those who are actually thinking about applying the gifted thought.


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## Kyle R (Oct 27, 2012)

I learned from John Irving that all you need to create a plot is to build quirky characters and throw them into unusual situations, to see what happens.

I learned from Kelly Link that you do not have to be restricted to keeping your stories realistic, or even logical--as long as the characters themselves behave and respond in believable ways.

I learned from Jennifer Egan that one successful way to build a climax into your stories is to have your character come to a realization that he or she has been believing the wrong thing about him or herself the entire time.

I learned from H.G. Wells that a story can be, first and foremost, purely for adventure and a demonstration of sheer imagination.

I learned from Karen Russell that youth and adolescence is a ripe age for protagonists because they are still creating their own theories about how the world works--so you can tread the line between fantasy and reality as whimsically as you wish.

I learned from Ray Bradbury that voice and prose alone can create a unique atmosphere and mood, and that characters can become fascinating when they are exaggerated and behave in bizarre ways. I also learned that you can use your characters to voice your own theories about the world, although in a more romanticized, interesting way.

I learned about Motivation-Reaction Units from Dwight Swain, that every event in your story is an opportunity to build character by revealing how your protagonist thinks and feels. I learned that readers enjoy having telepathy when it comes to reading the minds of characters.


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## shedpog329 (Oct 27, 2012)

"The Bride Went To Yellow Sky" By Stephen Crane


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## HarryG (Oct 27, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> I learned from John Irving that all you need to create a plot is to build quirky characters and throw them into unusual situations, to see what happens.
> 
> I learned from Kelly Link that you do not have to be restricted to keeping your stories realistic, or even logical--as long as the characters themselves behave and respond in believable ways.
> 
> ...



  I learnt from this post that it's much easier to write after reading a lot.  However, because of my enjoyment in discussing writing with fellow writers, I need to put forward the suggestion that reading too much diverse material could detract from the task in hand?

  I write crime fiction, mostly, did I learn anything from reading Stephenie Meyers?  Or Zadie Smith's White Teeth?  Or Obama's Dreams from my Father?

  Hard as I tried, the latter bored me silly.  I was going to add that lawyers are generally boring people, but then I thought of Grisham.

  I don't know the answers to the questions I've posed, but I'll carry on reading and writing anyway, because I believe in looking on the bright side, and I've stolen those words from some men singing while nailed to crosses.


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## Newman (Oct 27, 2012)

lasm said:


> More than once I've seen the advice that the best way to learn to write is to read a whole lot, to see what other writers do and how they do it.



It's not just reading. It's analyzing.

You don't want to absorb style - that's yours.

You just want to understand what's happening where and why.



lasm said:


> So, here's a question: What's a work (a novel or story or poem or whatever) that taught you something important?


Joseph Campbell's 17 steps hero's journey, monomyth



lasm said:


> And what did you learn?


How to lay out a story.

How to turn an idea into a story.


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## J Anfinson (Oct 28, 2012)

You know, it's kind of a funny thing.  I've read a WHOLE lot more 3rd person view type of books than I ever have 1st person, but I really think that I'm better at writing in 1st person.  Yet, I can say that I really didn't know anything at all about it until I read and analyzed books that were written that way.  Matter of fact, it's the only education I've got at creative writing, other that what I learned in high school.  So I tend to think that reading a lot can definetly teach you how to write better, but perhaps it can't teach you to write better in every viewpoint.  I think it comes from how well you analyze things.


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## Kyle R (Oct 28, 2012)

J Anfinson said:


> You know, it's kind of a funny thing.  I've read a WHOLE lot more 3rd person view type of books than I ever have 1st person, but I really think that I'm better at writing in 1st person.  Yet, I can say that I really didn't know anything at all about it until I read and analyzed books that were written that way.



You've been speaking in first person your entire life.


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## J Anfinson (Oct 28, 2012)

Touche...

But I tried writing stories, and they sucked.  It wasn't until after absorbing lessons from other authors, about writing dialogue and such, that it began to improve.


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## Juganhuy (Nov 1, 2012)

Although I love Rick Riordan's books, and I read them ALL withing a 3 month period before I wrote my own book, we have completly different writing styles.

Do I think it helps me? Sure. Learning how to use words and and increasing my vocabularary is helpful. It is also good to see how an author builds the story and suspense at a point when interest appears it is being lost.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Nov 1, 2012)

Nickleby said:


> One big reason for reading in your chosen genre is to familiarize yourself with the tropes of the genre. You'd be insane to write fantasy, for instance, without ever reading _The Lord of the Rings_.



I don't like this advice.  You're basically saying, "Read so that you know what to copy."  That may be okay from a marketing standpoint, but if you want your work to have any merit at all, originality is your friend.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Nov 1, 2012)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> I don't like this advice.  You're basically saying, "Read so that you know what to copy."  That may be okay from a marketing standpoint, but if you want your work to have any merit at all, originality is your friend.


I think what Nickleby is saying is more like, do your research. Because how do you know what's original if you don't know what's already been done? I personally never read novels about elves. I could sit down today and write a story about elf prostitution rings, feeling very original and clever, but for all I know, that could be a whole subgenre.


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## Morkonan (Nov 1, 2012)

lasm said:


> I think what Nickleby is saying is more like, do your research. Because how do you know what's original if you don't know what's already been done? I personally never read novels about elves. I could sit down today and write a story about elf prostitution rings, feeling very original and clever, but for all I know, that could be a whole subgenre.



I don't know if that's really the point to reading as a writer. At least, it's not for me.

For me, when I read as a writer, I'm looking to see how the author used certain tools. For instance, in one story, the author reinforces the loneliness and subsequent independence of someone sitting a certain post on a science-fiction spaceship while it is docked to a station. They're cut off from any advice or orders because the crew is off the ship, in this case. This happens repeatedly in the story and is the spark for a lot of tension in the series. Each time the captain or other notables leaves the ship, those left sitting in command are cut off, unable to communicate with the captain and must rely on their wits in order to interpret the random communications or messages they happen to receive. Emphasis is placed on their isolation from the action and the information that is crucial for them to make appropriate decisions. Later in the story, this is used to underscore a really great threat made by the captain who is threatened to be held prisoner by a certain faction. The captain tells her potential captors that she has told her fellow crew woman, who is sitting that post and who is also sick, injured and alone, that if she does not return, that crew woman is to cycle the ship's engines, effectively destroying the ship and the entire station with it. The crew woman is unreachable, behind locked doors, isolated and unpredictable, due to some earlier scenes which built up that impression.

If the author, C. J. Cherryh, hadn't effectively built up a certain theme around crew who are sitting such a post in such stressful circumstances, the effect wouldn't have been as great. If she hadn't built upon the idea of the crew woman's unpredictability, due to her illness and injuries, the threat wouldn't have had the sweet irony woven around it. As it was, she had an injured, sick, somewhat delusional, isolated and otherwise competent crew woman in a position to destroy everything at the touch of a button. Sort of a very desperate bit of leverage, isn't it?

So.. foreshadowing, building a message, building up the right character for the right spot without having to do all the work just before the scene... That's important stuff. If the same character was, instead, one that didn't appear to obey orders, was in fine mental shape and was surrounded by supportive characters in a role in which nothing ever bad happened, ever, the reader wouldn't have been concerned and the threat wouldn't have had as much impact. But, if I took care of all that using appropriate foreshadowing and character building a couple of hundred pages before the big scene, then it's got its blockbuster impact.

Incidentally, the chapter ends with that revelation - "I told her to cycle the vanes." How pretentious would it be fore me to end a chapter on such a cliffhanger-threat if it was completely hollow?


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