# Question about multiverses.



## MrPizzle (Aug 28, 2013)

Okay, with multiverses there is an infinite of possibilities but I'm unsure about this:

This person has a mixed background, White, Black, Asian you name it, what are the chances of say white parents having an Asian looking baby due to genetics from their ancestors? Same with Black parents have a white baby and Asian parents having whatever?

And of course having potential varied appearances such as a blonde hair popping up down the line due to genetics or blue eyes popping up and maybe even brown?

Anyway, in my story this guy or gal has a mixed background, and say is Black, in another universe/reality, she could be white or she could even be a he?

And what if one person met an alternate version of them self had a child, would there be any physical deformations or genetic issues due to having the same person having sex with a female or male version of themselves who in a different reality could look completely different?

Could a population be functional and sufficient if different alternate versions of yourself had sex with different alternate version of themselves? Despite having the same parents but all looking different as I said above about being mixed race and having alternate version of yourself looking vastly different in other realities?

Would the gene pool be f'ed up? Selfcest ahoy?


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## Fred (Aug 28, 2013)

If you're going for an infinite number of universes and an infinite variety of possibilities, I'd say anything at all is possible. As far as I can see, the world's top astrophysicists can only speculate on the possibility or nature of parallel universes, and I suspect geneticists are still puzzling about all the ways genes may or may not behave. It sounds like you should just unleash your imagination and have fun!


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## felix (Aug 28, 2013)

Multiverse Theory states that for each non-zero probability that has existed throughout the life of the universe, there exists a separate reality, as the system's collapsing wavefunction is divergent at that point.

So, as long as something is technically possible, a separate universe will exist to 'house' it.

With regard to the questions on the genetics of procreating with an alternate version of yourself: its entirely dependent on _how_ divergent the two version of that person are. It's possible for a sufficiently delineated version of one's self to produce viable offspring, as each individual is a random half-half conglomeration of each parent's genome; in the same manner as a brother and sister can produce children (although not in a stable manner; and yes, deformity is a high likelihood). However, there would be significant genetic degradation, and I wouldn't recommend this practice to prospective inter-dimensional travellers. 


I can't believe I answered that, but there we are. As Fred said, perhaps it's best to just enjoy yourself.


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## MrPizzle (Aug 28, 2013)

I'm trying to explain what I'm asking, it's quite hard. I'm mixed race, ancestors all over Europe and Asia both paternal and maternal. I'm white. but is it possible that in an alternate world, my gender is flipped and by chance in this reality, my Asian genetics came out for this person. What if this person had a child with another alternate version of myself who has for example black genes come out in this reality, would there be another variation in DNA so there won't be any physical deformation similar to a child born from an incestuous relationship?

Would the off-spring from both alternate version of myself be practically a clone? Or someone whose DNA is good enough to not cause any deformations? Would a different skin tone, eye colour, height and weight be enough variation to prevent any genetic degradation?  I might be taller in another alternate reality, maybe shorter, some more intelligent than others or their eyes could be brown or green instead of grey?

This question is hard to explain.


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## felix (Aug 28, 2013)

Two people of different ethnicity cannot produce offspring of solely one ethnicity; they will always be mixed race.

However, it is possible for two permutations of the same person to be different in gender, height, skin-tone, eye colour etc., as these traits are due to the interactions between multiple genes, each of which is drawn at random from both parents. 

Offspring between two versions of the same person would not produce a clone; the question is fundamentally the same as asking what would happen if twins procreated; what would result would be a genetically unstable conglomeration of all the genes present in either parent's genomes, resulting in another, entirely different human being.


Again...I can't believe I answered that. Hope it helped, though.

- - - Updated - - -

Two people of different ethnicity cannot produce offspring of solely one ethnicity; they will always be mixed race.

However, it is possible for two permutations of the same person to be different in gender, height, skin-tone, eye colour etc., as these traits are due to the interactions between multiple genes, each of which is drawn at random from both parents. 

Offspring between two versions of the same person would not produce a clone; the question is fundamentally the same as asking what would happen if twins procreated; what would result would be a genetically unstable conglomeration of all the genes present in either parent's genomes, resulting in another, entirely different human being.


Again...I can't believe I answered that. Hope it helped, though.


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## Outiboros (Aug 28, 2013)

Blue eyes and blonde hair can ONLY pop up if both parents have that recessive gene. She could definitely be a he: but she couldn't be white.

You do not have 'black genes' or 'Asian genes', even if these are in your ancestry. Well, you do, but not enough to make a baby look like that race when you don't. It's not how genetics work.

Also, I don't think you should throw around the word 'infinite' like that. Those variations on you aren't _you_. They may have the same parents, live in the same house - and they WILL, because they are infinite, and as such cover all possible probabilities of the phase space. There is infinite variation, and an extreme amount of possibilities. For instance, an Asian person might (WILL, because see above) end up in a life very similar to yours, but they will not BE you or possibly share not even the slightest ancestry with you. You could easily have viable offspring with this 'you' because this 'you' and the actual you don't share any recent ancestors.

Or maybe you're thinking of a reduced phase space: your parents stay the same. In that case, the possibilities are much fewer. You could have viable offspring, because first-generation incest isn't always immediately destructive, but I'd pass. And it's not skin tone, eye colour, height or weight that matters in incest. It's the 'faults' in your DNA. You effectively cancel out the advantages of sexual reproduction and mirror them into disadvantages.

Okay, I went on a bit of a ramble again. I don't know if this helps in any way. Infinity and multiverses are both mind-numbing things.


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## MrPizzle (Aug 28, 2013)

felix said:


> Two people of different ethnicity cannot produce offspring of solely one ethnicity; they will always be mixed race.
> 
> However, it is possible for two permutations of the same person to be different in gender, height, skin-tone, eye colour etc., as these traits are due to the interactions between multiple genes, each of which is drawn at random from both parents.
> 
> ...



Yes this. In my story, with the multiple realities, they are all the same person yet in their respective reality, they had a different look. Ultimately, the population are the exact same person, yet with their genetic history , this has allowed different permutations, creating different variances in each person. Personality and vary and so can physical aesthetics. The character might have their mothers nose, maybe in another the main character has his fathers nose or perhaps a mixture of both.


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## MrPizzle (Aug 28, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> Blue eyes and blonde hair can ONLY pop up if both parents have that recessive gene. She could definitely be a he: but she couldn't be white.
> 
> You do not have 'black genes' or 'Asian genes', even if these are in your ancestry. Well, you do, but not enough to make a baby look like that race when you don't. It's not how genetics work.
> 
> ...



The character has an Asian mother or father and white mother or father. The white parent will have those genes.

Yes, all characters in this universe have what I call "constants", they all share the same mother and father, yet their parents appearance change just as the child changes due to permutations in their genetic history, in their version of reality.

They all look different but it shouldn't surprise the main character if they bumped into an exact identical version of themselves.

Say the main characters father is white, but he may be short, dumb, black hair and green eyes. Yet in another reality, the father is tall, intelligent, blonde hair and brown eyes. Creating an offspring who looks different in appearance yet overall, follow a "template".


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## MrPizzle (Aug 28, 2013)

How about this scenario:

I have a child with an alternate version of my self, only female with a different facial structure, red hair and green eyes, she is also taller than me.

I them go on to have another child with another alternate version of myself, only this time she has brown hair and blue eyes, different facial structure to me and the previous girl, she is also smaller than me .

Would both children have any physical defects due to being alternate versions of myself? Despite physical differences?

And what about if the two children were then have children of their own with other alternate versions of themselves who also look nothing like each other?

The first generation are children of those who have the same parents who look different to each other in different realities and the second generation are children of the first generation.

I'M trying to find a way on how a society full of alternative versions of one guy could be self sufficient without the gene pool becoming an issue.


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## Outiboros (Aug 28, 2013)

MrPizzle said:


> The character has an Asian mother or father and white mother or father. The white parent will have those genes.
> 
> Yes, all characters in this universe have what I call "constants", they all share the same mother and father, yet their parents appearance change just as the child changes due to permutations in their genetic history, in their version of reality.
> 
> ...


Hm. But these 'constants' - you say the parents are the same, yet look different. Then how are they the same? How they look is just the outward expression of an individual - the same multiverse variations that cause difference in looks cause those in personality. If they have different personalities, how are they the same?




MrPizzle said:


> How about this scenario:





MrPizzle said:


> I have a child with an alternate version of my self, only female with a different facial structure, red hair and green eyes, she is also taller than me.
> 
> I them go on to have another child with another alternate version of myself, only this time she has brown hair and blue eyes, different facial structure to me and the previous girl, she is also smaller than me .
> 
> Would both children have any physical defects due to being alternate versions of myself? Despite physical differences?


Physical difference does NOT MATTER. This is all down to genotypes, not phenotypes. If the genotypes of your parents are constants, your own genotype is relatively constant, or have a small phase space, and having a kid with yourself will essentially be incest between identical twins.




MrPizzle said:


> And what about if the two children were then have children of their own with other alternate versions of themselves who also look nothing like each other?



Again, looks don't matter. It would be full-blown incest. Degeneracy would ramp up the more generations do this, up and until the degeneration is so severe they cannot have offspring any longer.



MrPizzle said:


> The first generation are children of those who have the same parents who look different to each other in different realities and the second generation are children of the first generation.
> 
> I'M trying to find a way on how a society full of alternative versions of one guy could be self sufficient without the gene pool becoming an issue.


I think this is impossible. And with impossible I mean it would be a world full of incest doomed to die after a few generations.

You cannot populate a world with yourself. You can when those 'yous' all have sufficient genetic variation, or the genotype of their parents is not a constant: but then, are they still 'you'?


The only solution I can find is this: you've got to be very lenient in what you accept to be a 'you'. These all need to be different people with different ancestries, as different as a random sample of the human population, but all from one small niche in the phase space of the infinite multiverses: they are not you, but they led your life. They lived in your house, had your friends, their parents had about the personality your parents had, they had your jobs, and perhaps your interests, and they had two cats just like you did, and they also named them Maverick and Mister Nibbles, and they also broke two ribs from falling off a bike when they were twelve.

And these people exist. incomprehensibly many of them it doesn't even matter. 

This way, you will have 'yous' that are all different in genotype and phenotype - genes and looks - but the same in their outward disposition. They are you not because they look like you, but because they have led your life.


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## MrPizzle (Aug 29, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> Hm. But these 'constants' - you say the parents are the same, yet look different. Then how are they the same? How they look is just the outward expression of an individual - the same multiverse variations that cause difference in looks cause those in personality. If they have different personalities, how are they the same?
> 
> 
> Physical difference does NOT MATTER. This is all down to genotypes, not phenotypes. If the genotypes of your parents are constants, your own genotype is relatively constant, or have a small phase space, and having a kid with yourself will essentially be incest between identical twins.
> ...



What can I do to make a population of the same character, the only thing thing they all share commonly is their parents. Events in their lives, their world etc are all different to each other.

Is there anyway without making it full blown incest? But still make every character in the world an alternate version of the main character, but from their own unique reality which is completely different to the main characters original reality?

 I would reply fully but I'm on my mobile and it's quit awkward.


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## Outiboros (Aug 29, 2013)

MrPizzle said:


> What can I do to make a population of the same character, the only thing thing they all share commonly is their parents. Events in their lives, their world etc are all different to each other.
> 
> Is there anyway without making it full blown incest? But still make every character in the world an alternate version of the main character, but from their own unique reality which is completely different to the main characters original reality?
> 
> I would reply fully but I'm on my mobile and it's quit awkward.


How much do you know about genetics? I think I could give you an answer why it couldn't be done with the same parents, but I'd have to know how much you know of genes and DNA and all to make sure you understand it and how much jargon I can use.

In short, I don't think it can be done. A species needs genetic diversity. Even a thousand people, all with different parents, wouldn't be able to uphold a society indefinitely simply because of that genetic diversity. They call this the Minimum Viable Population.


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## MrPizzle (Aug 29, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> How much do you know about genetics? I think I could give you an answer why it couldn't be done with the same parents, but I'd have to know how much you know of genes and DNA and all to make sure you understand it and how much jargon I can use.
> 
> In short, I don't think it can be done. A species needs genetic diversity. Even a thousand people, all with different parents, wouldn't be able to uphold a society indefinitely simply because of that genetic diversity. They call this the Minimum Viable Population.



Would it be more "realistic" if say two alternates got together, plan a child but to remove the the deformities, they would go to a, say a gene clinic?

Or is this alternate people having children together just too much?

Also, what type of person would have a lot of variable alternates? Would a a varied ancestry help increase a lot of variables and permutations of a person?


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## Outiboros (Aug 29, 2013)

MrPizzle said:


> Would it be more "realistic" if say two alternates got together, plan a child but to remove the the deformities, they would go to a, say a gene clinic?
> 
> Or is this alternate people having children together just too much?
> 
> Also, what type of person would have a lot of variable alternates? Would a a varied ancestry help increase a lot of variables and permutations of a person?


No, variable ancestry won't help. When looked at from this angle, every person has the same amount of genetic diversity.

Gene clinics don't help. Unless this is set in 2500, that is. Currently, these clinics can perhaps _detect_ the deformities, but they can't act on them.

No, alternatives of one individual having children isn't too much. They can do it. It'll be a very bad case of incest, but there's a chance the child will be perfectly healthy. It's populating an entire civilisation and keeping it going for multiple generations that's just too much.


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## MrPizzle (Aug 29, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> No, variable ancestry won't help. When looked at from this angle, every person has the same amount of genetic diversity.
> 
> Gene clinics don't help. Unless this is set in 2500, that is. Currently, these clinics can perhaps _detect_ the deformities, but they can't act on them.
> 
> No, alternatives of one individual having children isn't too much. They can do it. It'll be a very bad case of incest, but there's a chance the child will be perfectly healthy. It's populating an entire civilisation and keeping it going for multiple generations that's just too much.



Oh no, I didn't mean anything about a varied history. I was just wondering on what type of person could have the most varied types of alternate versions of themselves.

The setting isn't set in the 2500, there is no timeline, there is a date but it's different to what we are following. With the multiple universes, the same person is being pulled out from different realities, realities that all vary different from very minor events to major events. There are criminals who illegally enter universes which aren't their own and "plunder" technology that is different from their own universe. I just thought that a gene clinic technology was stolen and was "legally acquired".

What if I didn't do multiverses but did alternate universes instead? Would this counter all the issues associated with multiverses? Can one person look complete different yet still be the "same" person despite coming from a different universe? Could a child with no deformations be produced from such relationship or again, incest?


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## Outiboros (Aug 29, 2013)

MrPizzle said:


> Oh no, I didn't mean anything about a varied history. I was just wondering on what type of person could have the most varied types of alternate versions of themselves.
> 
> The setting isn't set in the 2500, there is no timeline, there is a date but it's different to what we are following. With the multiple universes, the same person is being pulled out from different realities, realities that all vary different from very minor events to major events. There are criminals who illegally enter universes which aren't their own and "plunder" technology that is different from their own universe. I just thought that a gene clinic technology was stolen and was "legally acquired".
> 
> What if I didn't do multiverses but did alternate universes instead? Would this counter all the issues associated with multiverses? Can one person look complete different yet still be the "same" person despite coming from a different universe? Could a child with no deformations be produced from such relationship or again, incest?


I don't understand what would be different. Alternate universes are multiverses. Would their genes be different in alternate universes? I don't think they would. 

I think you have to step down from the 'looking completely different' viewpoint - it's only confusing to look at outward appearance when dealing with genes in this way.

Again, you could simply stretch your given value for 'same person'. Make it not 'me with a few variations' but 'an infinite variation of people leading the exact same life I did'. That would solve your problem.


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