# Accuracy of location and settings



## OurJud (Aug 18, 2013)

How important do you feel it is to be accurate with location and setting?

Is it important to try and avoid situations where your readers would become irritated by your inaccuracies? For instance having your characters call in at an American style Diner in Ripon, without knowing for sure that Ripon has an American style diner?


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## shadowwalker (Aug 18, 2013)

I think, as with so many things in writing, it depends. If, for example, you were to put the Brooklyn Bridge in Connecticut, you would have a major problem. But if you put an alley between two streets in New York where there wasn't one in reality - who would know? The people of the neighborhood, of course, but how many of them would be reading your book, and how many of those would really care? It's a work of fiction and certain liberties are allowed - I usually take full advantage of them.


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## WechtleinUns (Aug 18, 2013)

As long as you are internally consistent within the framework of *your* story, you're good to go.


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## bookmasta (Aug 19, 2013)

Accuracy goes a long way in my opinion.


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## Jeko (Aug 19, 2013)

I write all my stories an anonymous/made-up cities. The advantage of the former is that it becomes relatable to many places in the real world without being pinned down in one and scrutinized for its portrayal. The latter I use if the name is important to the story and needs to be there.

If you use a real place, I'd expect some people to care too much and some people to not care at all.


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## philistine (Aug 19, 2013)

My WIP takes place mostly in London and its surrounding areas. I repeatedly mention street names, buildings, hotels, galleries and a variety of other buildings that either don't exist in those locations, or are completely fabricated to meet the requirements of the story. In my case, it doesn't matter, as I'm being deliberately vague when mentioning all these places. Aside from serving as holders for the action, as it were, their geographical location means nothing much at all.


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## Myers (Aug 19, 2013)

Is there a chance that any American town will have an "American style  diner?" Something that might fit that description, maybe. But you might  want to be aware that the items on the menu might be different, or they  might be called different things depending on the area of the country. 

And in your WIP, you mentioned something called a "cheese and bacon  toastie." That might be fine if your character is from the UK and he refers to the item that way in conversation with his travel  companions or in his thoughts in the narrative. But I've never heard of a  toastie. You're probably talking about a grilled cheese with bacon.

I think people do notice those kinds of details. The often given example  is that a Coke is called a pop or a soda or soft drink, depending on  the region. A southern diner would have grits on the menu and they might  feature fried chicken. If you're in Pennsylvania or a mid-Atlantic  state, you might see scrapple. Those are things you might want to add  for authenticity, or you could play it safe and stick with common items,  like burgers.

You might think from watching movies that diners are all over the place,  but there are actually very few left. They can't compete with chains  and fast food restaurants. And you probably wouldn't come across one  traveling on major highways. But it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary  to see one in a small town off the highway or in a larger city. So for  example, if your characters want to eat at diners as they travel across the U.S. as part of what they  think will be a unique American experience, then you're going to have to  do some research. If they stop at a diner or two along the way, then  you can go easy on the detail and stick with things that are more or  less ubiquitous.

These are the kinds of choices you'll have to make. But I think the  important thing is, don't guess. And don't assume based on what you've seen in the  movies or on something you read in a novel that was written 40 years  ago. It's a big country and things vary throughout, although sadly, a lot the things that make regions, states and towns unique are disappearing as the country becomes increasingly homogenous. I think we're fast approaching a time when you won't be able write something current and authentic that can include much in the way of local flavor or detail. So do yourself a favor and take the time to get things right.

And here is a great place to do research and ask questions about regional details:

City-Data.com Forum: Relocation, Moving, General and Local City Discussions

And speaking of assuming; I'm assuming you're talking about your novel with the group of friend's who are traveling cross-country.


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## qwertyman (Aug 19, 2013)

OurJud said:


> Is it important to try and avoid situations where your readers would become irritated by your inaccuracies? For instance having your characters call in at an American style Diner in Ripon, without knowing for sure that Ripon has an American style diner?



I would agree with bookmasta, accuracy is important. I'll qualify: if the Diner existed it would be vital to be descriptively accurate.  However, as the Diner is your invention you remove the problem.




			
				philistine said:
			
		

> My WIP takes place mostly in London and its surrounding areas. I repeatedly mention street names, buildings, hotels, galleries and a variety of other buildings that either don't exist in those locations, or are completely fabricated to meet the requirements of the story. In my case, it doesn't matter, as I'm being deliberately vague when mentioning all these places. Aside from serving as holders for the action, as it were, their geographical location means nothing much at all.



Why? Because you can? Or because you are incapable of tailoring the story to the locations?


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## philistine (Aug 19, 2013)

qwertyman said:


> Why? Because you can? Or because you are incapable of tailoring the story to the locations?



Because I _can_. The locations assume such a minor role in my novel that any elaboration would be unnecessary. Of course, I've named and described them in such a way that they'd be glossed over by even the most anal and pedantic reader.


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## Terry D (Aug 19, 2013)

I write with a mix of accuracy and utter fabrication. The cities I mention exist, the streets are real and so are some of the landmarks. For my book _Chase_ I wanted a secluded place to locate a dog-fighting operation in Missouri, so I used Google Earth to locate a tiny, unmarked dirt road in the Ozark Mountains and set my story there. The route to Thornpit is real, but I have no idea what really exists at the end of that road.

Another location in that book, Ft. Madison, Iowa, is also described geographically accurately, but most of the businesses mentioned are fabricated. This sort of accuracy helps me immerse myself in the locations. It is easier for me to make that little side-step from reality into the world of my story if I don't have to create the locations from whole cloth. That works for the type of books I write.


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## Odd Greg (Aug 19, 2013)

OurJud said:


> How important do you feel it is to be accurate with location and setting?
> 
> Is it important to try and avoid situations where your readers would become irritated by your inaccuracies? For instance having your characters call in at an American style Diner in Ripon, without knowing for sure that Ripon has an American style diner?



If you can't use your own city as a template, or some city area of which you have intimate knowledge, then you'll have to do a lot of research if you insist on accuracy. A lot. Google may be your friend in general, but the amount of work you would have to do would likely be greater than the value of the setting. If you mean to use Prague, then you can study Prague, I suppose - but knowledge trumps research when it comes to the flow of writing. Or so I believe.

_Accuracy in location is overrated in most cases_ (yes, I said that,) unless you mean to write a screen play. Are you writing a screen play? In the hundreds of books I have read, I am only twitchy about the cities I have lived in - which is your concern - but mostly it doesn't matter. 

I make up my locations from soil to tower. If I need to use a city, then I use a part of Vancouver where I live. Or Denver, or St Paul, or Oakland, or Memphis, or Orlando, or any other place where I have lived. I can draw upon memory and experience - which is better, in my view, than research.

Then again, I don't know how freewheeling you are with your money. Maybe you have breakfast in Paris and dinner in London, and can afford to spend a week in your chosen location. If not, then maybe choose the path of least resistance to your goal.


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## Myers (Aug 19, 2013)

OurJud can speak for himself, but I believe he's talking about his WIP which is about a group of friends traveling across the U.S. I imagine it will include a lot of observations about the country, locations and culture, or there wouldn't be much point to it. I'd say if you aren't familiar with the U.S. (and he's not from here) or you've learned about it mostly from movies, then there all kinds of opportunities to get things wrong. I'm guessing it would require a pretty delicate balance between what you can fabricate and what is real and authentic. So I would think a decent amount of research would be required, and given that the information is so accessible, there's no good reason not to make that effort.


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## Sintalion (Aug 19, 2013)

I only scrutinize accuracy if you're going around proclaiming that you're accurate. Generally I'm okay with fudging things in fiction. Times change. What was a post office at the time of your writing might be a McDonald's by the time I read it. Very few people will know or care. 

Typically I like a little accuracy in general, but in specific scenes I'm a little looser. For example, if the story says it's set in preset-day London, I expect to get a present-day London vibe. But I don't care if you invent a street or pub or Platform 9 3/4. 

The novel I'm polishing is essentially a contemporary fairytale that incorporates my views above. I used a lot of real Norwegian geography, history, climatology, wildlife- but I changed a few things around. Namely, the royal palace has been made into a castle that comes complete with a menagerie. It gives me the freedom to spend a lot of time there, without knowing what it's like inside.


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## Odd Greg (Aug 19, 2013)

Ah, yes. So, OurJud, this is the story discussed in our Group. Are you currently planning to have a pair of Brits travel accross the US in search of... something? Even more interesting accuracy problems. It's a road trip story, and typically road trip stories are also atmospheric stories. I've traveled around the US, as has done my son, and there are quite distinctive differences from area to area. So accuracy in location is the tip of the iceberg. As I said in the Group, I think this could be a fascinating story. But I don't know how in-depth you mean to make it.

Traveling from one city to another, and from region to region, includes encountering different kinds of people with their own colloquial peculiarities. Even the approaches to different cities have a distinctive feel. But you may not be interested in that. Although people who may like road stories tend to be looking for the various differences between areas - sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle. Stephen Fry traveled across America for a look at nearly all of the states. I think it was called A Brit in America or something. Have you thought to watch the entire series? Not sure if it would help.

It's a big task you have ahead of you, but I think you'll enjoy the ride, so to speak. Good luck and good writing on this project.


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## gmehl (Aug 19, 2013)

I agree with many of the points here, and suggest that it's important to do your homework to a point.  You might not have to describe in detail a specific diner in Keokuk, Iowa, that actually exists, but you do need to give us the flavor of a diner that _could _be in Keokuk, Iowa, which might be virtually anything in terms of specific decor (or a cliche diner), but might have specific regional dishes on the menu... like, say, gravy on french fries, which I've seen in New Jersey but never in the Midwest, or scrapple in eastern Pennsylvania, but not in Oregon, or frappes in Massachusetts that are called milkshakes almost everywhere else. Almost.


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## OurJud (Aug 19, 2013)

Wow, many answers and much I need to clarify.

I should have mentioned in my original post that while this story has its roots in the idea I've discussed in the groups and elsewhere, it has since morphed into something slightly different. It's no longer a group of friends - just two guys now (maybe brothers, I haven't decided) - but more importantly it is no loner set in the future _or_ the US. It is now set in the UK hence the 'American-style' diner (I've considered this at length and have decided I'm not brave enough to set in the US). Of course in America they're just diners.

But I do agree with Myers about the names of foods, and would presume the owners would try and keep the food authentic. Substituting the toastie is a simple fix.

But back on topic, the towns and cities my two characters will encounter on their journey are easy enough to track on google maps, but like Philistine I'm hoping I can skim over any details. It's not like my characters will be exploring each town as though sightseeing. They will simply be finding places to eat, and/or stay over for a night or two (and hopefully meeting some interesting characters along the way).

What I'm trying to say is that while I'll be using real locations, the characters won't be seeing much more than hotels/motels/B&B and diners/cafes.

Can I get away, therefore, with putting a guesthouse or B&B on such and such a street in such and such a town, without knowing such a place exists on that street in that town?


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## Terry D (Aug 19, 2013)

OurJud said:


> What I'm trying to say is that while I'll be using real locations, the characters won't be seeing much more than hotels/motels/B&B and diners/cafes.
> 
> Can I get away, therefore, with putting a guesthouse or B&B on such and such a street in such and such a town, without knowing such a place exists on that street in that town?



No problem with that at all. I do it all the time.


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## Kevin (Aug 19, 2013)

I think it would be pretty cool if you could get the rest of the location factual, and then add a specific place that doesn't really exist.


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## Odd Greg (Aug 19, 2013)

Yup. I don't see a problem at all with following a map of cities and towns, and making up locations along the way. It's not like someone will follow the route your book takes, checking for accuracy. Well, not unless an evil, obsessive fan...


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## Terry D (Aug 19, 2013)

It is, after all, fiction.


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## qwertyman (Aug 20, 2013)

I recently listened to a Radio programme of short stories.

***

In the 1970's a girl goes to a big Hurling match to impress a boyfriend. Outside the ground she sees dozens of bicycles left carelessly in heaps. None of them were locked, but all of the bicycle pumps had been removed.

***

I know she was there.

Bicycle pumps at Hurling matches is the kind of thing you need to know to authenticate a ‘road’ novel.


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## Dictarium (Aug 20, 2013)

What's with all this "can I ____" and "am I allowed to _____" stuff? So long as it doesn't involve grammar, the answer to all of your questions will, invariably, be "yes".


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## Myers (Aug 20, 2013)

A lot of this is just common sense. Most of the specific locations in novels at the level where scenes take place are fictional. That's something we've all seen done countless times. The important thing to ask is, could such a location exist there; and would it make sense to people who might be familiar with the area? That isn't very difficult to determine, given that the available resources are just a few clicks away.

For a story like the OP's, accurately depicting the culture and regional nuances, deciding what level of detail is needed to achieve plausibility, that's going to take more homework and thought, especially if you aren't a native.


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## qwertyman (Aug 20, 2013)

Dictarium said:


> What's with all this "can I ____" and "am I allowed to _____" stuff? So long as it doesn't involve grammar, the answer to all of your questions will, invariably, be "yes".



You can write about a person buying a suit in Cork street and visiting a gallery in Saville Row, of course you can...if you want to be laughed at and chucked at the wall.

Get a grip.


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## shadowwalker (Aug 20, 2013)

qwertyman said:


> You can write about a person buying a suit in Cork street and visiting a gallery in Saville Row, of course you can...if you want to be laughed at and chucked at the wall.



You mean you can't do either?  This is what I mean when I said that some things will be recognized as wrong by many/most/all and some things will only be noticed by those few who live right there. Accuracy depends on the level of fame, and what details about the place are also famous (I would recognize Saville Row as having a lot of tailor shops, but not know they don't have galleries, and Cork Street is just a street to me - but I am a bit of a troglodyte.).


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## Kevin (Aug 20, 2013)

We had lunch at Mt. Rushmore. The desert air was too hot and I was never a fan of Franklin D. Later that day we drove into Niagra and rode the Night Tour tram across to Greenland. Tiger sharks dined on penguins but I was getting bored...


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## Sam (Aug 20, 2013)

In one of her godawful _Twilight _novels, Stephenie Meyer made reference to a coven of vampires (inaccuracy #1) living in the sewers in London in 1642 (inaccuracy #2). 

Firstly, I've never heard a group of vampires referred to as a 'coven', and I'm sure no one else has either. Secondly, no sewers existed in London until 1865 when Joseph Bazalgette was commissioned to construct them. Before that, sewage flowed freely down the streets until it reached the Thames. 

Both of these are examples of poor research. Research can make or break a novel. When it's done correctly, you are sucked into the story (as Qwerty alluded to) and can feel the authenticity of the words. When it's done poorly, the author is lambasted (rightfully) for being lazy. In a day of age of Google maps and a dozen other apps that make research available at your fingertips, there is simply no excuse for inaccuracy. Yes, by all means make up a restaurant or B&B, but don't have a black character freely strolling around Alabama in the 1950s. You _will _​be caught out on it.


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## Ghosts of the Maze (Aug 20, 2013)

Journey managed to make a lot of money off "Don't Stop Believin," despite the fact that there isn't a "South Detroit." Downtown Detroit sits along a river. If you go south of that you're in Canada.


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## Kevin (Aug 20, 2013)

Ghosts of the Maze said:


> Journey managed to make a lot of money off "Don't Stop Believin," despite the fact that there isn't a "South Detroit." Downtown Detroit sits along a river. If you go south of that you're in Canada.


 Yes...but you're talking about people who actually _paid_ to listen to Journey. I imagine they might be of the same type who nowadays would _pay_ to read Twilight. 

(...and I guess I just argued myself out of lucrative market)


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## Ghosts of the Maze (Aug 20, 2013)

Oh people are paying. Licensing fees collected whenever a movie or a commercial uses their song. That's the kind of money you want to be making. Just go out to the mailbox and pick up your check.


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## Sintalion (Aug 20, 2013)

Again, I don't know how much attention really needs to be paid- especially in fiction and especially in cases where the writer isn't necessarily shooting for 100% accuracy. If they're saying it's fact and happened in the real world, that's one thing, but at some point you're going to take a story like Finding Nemo and point out that great white sharks aren't vegetarian. As someone who studies human physiology and disease states for a living, I am sometimes appalled at what writers do to the human body. A quick search could easily have prevented the mistakes and misconceptions, particularly for supernatural writers or those who injure their characters. 

But at some point you have to say, okay, this is fiction. Is the inaccuracy so large that it ruins the story? Or has the writer done their job and suspended my belief (for the duration of the story)? If you can write it well enough to make me believe that on this version of earth a Subway exists in a cathedral, go for it. Just don't promise me _authentic _19th century Catholicism and deliver fake things (unless there's an in-story reason for it, such as time traveling mishaps or something). I don't believe it's a writer's responsibility to explain away every inaccuracy, not when the point is to tell a story (we'd lose the story, explaining why sewers in a world with vampires existed quicker than sewers in our world). But if your point is to be accurate, then I would expect that you do. If you say it's accurate, I expect you to fact-check. If you don't, readers have a right to point out the problems. If all you're promising is a piece of fiction, nah. 

As a reader, if a story is fiction I generally assume that the world of the story is not the same world I'm living in. Sometimes it's a little different. In the end I might say, that couldn't happen/that place doesn't exist, _but it was a good story_. That's the reason I read; to enjoy good stories. I might moan and pick at Anita Blake's blood loss, but I read it knowing it was fiction. 

But hey, if we're talking truth, all bets are off. You get something wrong in your biography about Lincoln and I expect you to be flayed by historians.


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## qwertyman (Aug 20, 2013)

Kevin said:


> We had lunch at Mt. Rushmore. The desert air was too hot and I was never a fan of Franklin D. Later that day we drove into Niagra and rode the Night Tour tram across to Greenland. Tiger sharks dined on penguins but I was getting bored...



Have you been reading philistine's book?


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## OurJud (Aug 20, 2013)

Myers said:


> For a story like the OP's, accurately depicting the culture and regional nuances, deciding what level of detail is needed to achieve plausibility, that's going to take more homework and thought, especially if you aren't a native.



I understand that, but I'm not sure cultural differences are quite as varied in the UK, as they are in the US.

To be honest I don't even know what this story is about. I have no idea where my characters are heading or even why they're on the road.

And I have to stop typing now as I sense a huge wave of self-doubt and negativity approaching. I need to go hold on to some railings somewhere.


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## Terry D (Aug 20, 2013)

OurJud said:


> To be honest I don't even know what this story is about. I have no idea where my characters are heading or even why they're on the road.



This is great! Just start writing it and you will have the joy of discovering those things. Listen to them and your characters will tell you where they are going, and why.


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## OurJud (Aug 20, 2013)

Terry D said:


> [...] Listen to them and your characters will tell you where they are going, and why.



I like that. Thanks, Terry


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## Jeko (Aug 20, 2013)

> You can write about a person buying a suit in Cork street and visiting a gallery in Saville Row, of course you can...if you want to be laughed at and chucked at the wall.



Unless you build a gallery in the Saville Row of your fictional world, which you as a merchant of fantasy are entitled to do.

I make so much stuff up in my stories, I forget where things are in my house.


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## bookmasta (Aug 20, 2013)

bookmasta said:


> Accuracy goes a long way in my opinion.



I should rephrase this. Whenever using any real city, monument, possible culture, I think they should be represented accurately. Any other made up place, ext... well that is up to the author's decision.


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## voltigeur (Aug 20, 2013)

My WIP is a historical novel set all over the world. One of the issues I have run into is 2 characters one from Racine WI and Wilmington DE. I need to understand the neighborhoods in those cities during the 80’s for the reasons discussed here. 

The last thing I want to do is place my characters in a neighborhood that didn’t exist at that time or have the daughter of a prominent banker raised in the ghetto.  As far as Bars and restaurants I think it would add so much to the tapestry of the story to be able to have my characters at restaurants known to the locals and have it correct. 

I think the general knowledge is more critical the bars and restaurants just take it to the next level. 

However I can’t hold up the writing to get these details.


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## Myers (Aug 20, 2013)

For one of my short stories, I needed to know what a high crime area in a certain city might have been back in the 1980's. Considering how demographics shift and how some urban areas have been gentrified, I couldn't really guess based on how things are now. I did a little digging, and that's how I came across the city-data link I posted. With very little time and effort, I had my answer. I included a few other details, names of train stations, neighborhoods and other landmarks. Someone who read the story was from the city and was certain I was too. It really doesn't take much. It's more about not guessing than anything else.


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## Robert_S (Aug 20, 2013)

OurJud said:


> How important do you feel it is to be accurate with location and setting?
> 
> Is it important to try and avoid situations where your readers would become irritated by your inaccuracies? For instance having your characters call in at an American style Diner in Ripon, without knowing for sure that Ripon has an American style diner?



I'm not sure what Ripon you're referring to, but Ripon, Wisconsin is certain to have American "cuisine," especially in a diner.


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## Kuro (Aug 20, 2013)

If the story takes place on Earth, it would definitely bother me if Mt. Fuji was in Texas. I wouldn't care too much if there were some buildings or something like that in the book that aren't there in real life, though.


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## Jeko (Aug 21, 2013)

> it would definitely bother me if Mt. Fuji was in Texas.


_
It bothers me that Mount Fuji is now in Texas... _​sounds like the seed of a great opening to a story.


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## shadowwalker (Aug 21, 2013)

Is there actually a house above Mount Rushmore?

I think that answers the question, IMHO.


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## philistine (Aug 21, 2013)

Kuro said:


> If the story takes place on Earth, it would definitely bother me if Mt. Fuji was in Texas. I wouldn't care too much if there were some buildings or something like that in the book that aren't there in real life, though.



Paris is in Texas, so having Mt. Fuji there really isn't too much of a stretch. What's that about every European city also existing in America? \\/


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## OurJud (Aug 21, 2013)

Robert_S said:


> I'm not sure what Ripon you're referring to, but Ripon, Wisconsin is certain to have American "cuisine," especially in a diner.


Ripon in the UK, Robert. The story is no longer set in America.


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## Fred (Aug 21, 2013)

A little research can go a long way.

A few minutes on Google, for example, and I learn that over 390,000 people commute from New Jersey to New York every day, and that over 90,000 cars pass through the Holland Tunnel.

Now, I live in England, and I’ve never been through the Holland Tunnel, but I have been stuck for what felt like hours in queueing traffic at the Dartford Crossing; trapped, baked in an aluminium and fibre-glass oven with outside temperatures in the mid eighties, no shade, no air conditioning and with so little breeze that even with all the windows rolled down the air was still just a thick, hot, toxic syrup of fumes and dust crushing my chest. I’ve sat, tensed and angry, whilst my skull felt like cracking between the thudding pressure of the bellowing eight-wheeler on my left and a blue rent-a-van on my right whose cd player vomited merciless, repetitive aural spite like a nail gun in the hands of its demonic nineteen-year-old driver.

Research can add a vibe, an authenticity that helps keep your reader invested in what you’re telling them is, until they return to the real world, true. But it also helps if you draw on your own experience to fill in the blanks. Only 90,000 cars a day queue for the Holland Tunnel, but millions of cars, lorries, vans and motorcycles, and billions of drivers, passengers, adults, children and pets have been stuck in traffic across the world. They may not realize how accurate (or not) your description of New York is, but they will probably recognize your uncomfortable recollection of impatience and gritty frustration and resignation.

Mount Fuji is _not_ in Texas, but yes, I can imagine a story where it _might_ be. Maybe there is no American-Style Diner in Ripon, but I can’t imagine why there wouldn’t be. Maybe the US is not as it’s portrayed in the movies, but isn’t there a story in what happens to a van-load of optimistic touring Brits who find that out in practice? And so I think the answer to this question is, once again, and as with so many questions around here, “it depends...”

Personally, I love research. As has been said earlier, it’s a piece of cake with the internet and there’s no excuse for not taking the time to at least look around. Find out what you need to know, and use what you already know. One will often support the other.

I’m reminded of something that Stan Lee once said: a good story doesn’t have to be realistic, but it does have to be convincing.


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## voltigeur (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks to the person that suggested City Data for location Research.  I have just received soooooo much information on Wilmington De to include bars and local culture. Great suggestion. Started a thread and 5 days later soo much info. 

Great suggestion thanks!


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## OurJud (Aug 29, 2013)

voltigeur said:


> Thanks to the person that suggested City Data for location Research.



Is there a UK equivalent of that site?


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## Dictarium (Aug 29, 2013)

What about people? I'm writing a road trip story as well coincidentally and I have a character who "played for the Orioles in the late 60s, early 70s", but he's not an actual person. Just a made-up character who I want to have played for the Orioles in the late 60s, early 70s. How much of a stretch would that be? Would that bother anyone reading something like that?


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## voltigeur (Aug 29, 2013)

Point 1)  I think City data is worldwide. I say that only because the forums are broken down and one of the main categories is United States.


Point 2) People is an area where you have to fudge. There are tremendous legal issues writing about real people. So in my mind it is more acceptable maybe even expected to make up names and people.


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## OurJud (Aug 29, 2013)

Dictarium said:


> What about people? I'm writing a road trip story as well coincidentally and I have a character who "played for the Orioles in the late 60s, early 70s", but he's not an actual person. Just a made-up character who I want to have played for the Orioles in the late 60s, early 70s. How much of a stretch would that be? Would that bother anyone reading something like that?



As a Brit, 'Orioles' means nothing to me. I suspect they're a baseball team, but my point is were they a BIG baseball team? Is it important to your plot that this person used to play for a big and famous team?

I think this is important. Take my favourite sport, for instance. Snooker. If I was reading a story about a snooker player from the 80s whom I knew didn't really exist, it would annoy me.

If, however, you're talking about a low-league team with only a handful of supporters, I don't see any problem inventing a player who didn't exist.

Take the film _Jerry Maguire_, for instance. I'm guessing Cuba Gooding's character in that isn't based on a real football player. Look at how they did it?


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## skitty (Sep 21, 2013)

If you want to include a real place and you haven't been there, try looking up pictures of the real place. That might give you an idea.

City Data does have a UK section. But a lot of Americans post on it anyway, and the website is somewhat America-centric. A lot of users are from conservative parts of the US, which might be off-putting to a liberal UK user.


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## Terry D (Sep 21, 2013)

Dictarium said:


> What about people? I'm writing a road trip story as well coincidentally and I have a character who "played for the Orioles in the late 60s, early 70s", but he's not an actual person. Just a made-up character who I want to have played for the Orioles in the late 60s, early 70s. How much of a stretch would that be? Would that bother anyone reading something like that?



It didn't work out too badly for Roy Hobbs in _The Natural_. Even the team was fabricated, but placed in the real National League. There are many examples of fictional characters being placed on real sports teams.


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## David Gordon Burke (Sep 24, 2013)

Another great thread.  I enjoy reading the diversfied opinions and the info I pick up along the way.  If I'm ever in London, I'll know where to buy a suit.
Authenticity vs. Accuracy.
IMHO accuracy is way over-rated.  Authenticity is King.  
Case in point -  Dan Brown's latest thriller "Inferno" (continuing the Robert Langdon series of "The Da Vinci Code" fame)
No one can accuse Dan Brown of not doing his homework (well, I certainly can't - I've never been to Venice or Istanbul ..... but it seems accurate)
Bottom line .....Dan would have been better off using the Street View option of Google Maps or just making it up, focusing his energy on the art of writing instead of bogus research.  
Seeing as the book deals largely with the Divine Comedy, I wonder what level of  Dante Alighieri's Hell Dan should be asigned to for writing such drek.  

It's fiction.  Need we say more?

David Gordon Burke


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## Jeko (Sep 24, 2013)

> Authenticity vs. Accuracy.



Are you sure you can put them on opposite ends of a scale? I often find that accuracy contributes to authenticity. Accuracy is a matter of details, one of the key aspects of all storytelling. If you try to write an authentic story but get your facts wrong, those facts are inaccurate  and take away from the authenticity.

Though I too hate over-accurate novels; it's a form of literary gloating, IMO, unless it's important to the story or humorous in some way. Steve Hely hyperbolic this in his parody on being a writer, _H__ow I Became a Famous Novelist, _in which the main character does stupid amounts of research for his novel and it's one of the few good things people have to say about it.


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## David Gordon Burke (Sep 24, 2013)

Cadence said:


> Are you sure you can put them on opposite ends of a scale? I often find that accuracy contributes to authenticity. Accuracy is a matter of details, one of the key aspects of all storytelling. If you try to write an authentic story but get your facts wrong, those facts are inaccurate and take away from the authenticity.



Let's put it this way - your scene takes place in a Mexican restaurant. Show me by the character's reaction that the hot sauce was Hot Picante Spicy.
Don't give me the damn recipe.
It's like Pandora's box. If you don't open it..... where accuracy is concerned in fiction .....It's like a teenager learning to lie to his Parents ..... throw in a few TRUE facts to get them off your trail and then shut your mouth. Don't give them cause to doubt you and they won't. Stay away from things you don't know about.

Take the Western Genre - If you mention that your hero slapped a mag into his Colt, you have lost your audience. But look at "Lonesome Dove" by Larry McMurtry or anything by Cormac McCarthy - I can't tell if either of these writers would have the slightest clue what to do with a 6 shooter if you put it in their hands - they could very well shoot themselves with it. But since they never go into more detail than "He shot" there is nothing to question, accuracy is never questioned and just like in baseball - THEY'RE SAFE. 

The KISS RULE - Keep it Simple, Stupid. Or what's that other one about keeping your mouth shut while people wonder if you are an idiot as oppossed to opening your mouth and proving that you are?

David Gordon Burke


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## Jeko (Sep 24, 2013)

> Let's put it this way - your scene takes place in a Mexican restaurant. Show me by the character's reaction that the hot sauce was Hot Picante Spicy.
> Don't give me the damn recipe.



That's a good example; I see what you mean. Prioritizing character over characterless facts is the way to go, unless those facts support character or something else that's important.

And I agree, bad facts can ruin an otherwise good story. It breaks down the trust relationship with the narrator, and trust is a very hard thing to recover.


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## qwertyman (Sep 25, 2013)

Fred said:


> A little research can go a long way.
> 
> A few minutes on Google, for example, and I learn that over 390,000 people commute from New Jersey to New York every day, and that over 90,000 cars pass through the Holland Tunnel.
> 
> ...



Erm...The Dartford Crossing is a bridge. Did you mean the Dartford Tunnel?  Should've researched it Fred.


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