# Today



## TuesdayEve (Oct 28, 2017)

Revision:

Driving southbound
post sunrise humid morning
approaching Logan High School parking lot
a big blue bus stands waiting
ready for an adventure

A flock of parents straight lined like Canada Geese
anticipating lift off wave in unison
their chldren inside
their adventure begins

Light skies ahead
dark skies behind
rain clouds above
so low they dissove before my eyes
van passes on the right 
brief glance
it has your name on it
a tender moment relived

Inch worm gridlock
sweltering high noon sun
sear puddles from the morning rain
three teenagers side by side
camouflaged by fast food gas station signage
two girls with a boy between them

The first girl in black sunglasses 
sleeveless sundress purple hair
the other dressed identical with orange curls
in the middle a pale skinned boy
brown hair wearing a t-shirt shorts
no tattoos
all three holding hands

Four o'clock
ninety degrees brings an oven warm breeze
crushed between pavement and sun
long breathes rasp
salted perspiration burns tired eyes
see a teenage boy
oblivious
wearing a zipped up navy blue hooded parka
flying down the sidewalk
on a motorized scooter

a day remembered






Original version:

Driving down the road
 approaching a high school parking lot 
I see a coach bus and twenty parents standing along side simultaneously 
raise their arms and wave
as I pass all arms down and the bus pulls away
a moment in time

Heading towards light skies, leaving dark skies behind 
rain clouds so low 
they look like smoke and dissolve before my eyes
A van passes on my right
as I glance it has your name on it
a moment in time

Torpid mid-afternoon traffic
Three teenagers walking down the street
two girls, one boy in the middle
one girl has purple hair the other orange
the boy is average, t-shirt and shorts
all three holding hands
a moment in time

Four o'clock, who do I see zooming down the sidewalk 
on a motorized razor, a teenage boy 
wearing a hooded parka completly zipped up
it's ninety degrees
a moment in time


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## VonBradstein (Oct 29, 2017)

A simple poem with some depth. Overall I like it. A couple of observations in no particular order of import:

- 'Torpid' is a strange word to use, for me, to describe traffic. I get what you are trying to say and there's nothing wrong with it per-say but I tend to think of traffic as being loud and generally quite a neurotic phenomena. Torpid tends to be used to describe animals in a state of sleepiness and serenity. While I get the idea is that the traffic is not moving very much, I still feel there's too much movement and noise and general activity to fit. 

- Why 'coach bus'? I tend to think of a motor coach as being something along the lines of a Greyhound. Wouldn't high school kids just be in, you know, a school bus?

- I'm not sure that it's needed to use the word 'simultaneously'. It does not seem to help with the meter and it's not what I would call a strong word. I would cut that.

- Also, maybe it's pedantic, but what are parents doing hanging around outside a school bus inside the school's parking lot? Aren't the kids taking the bus home? Are the parents riding the bus with them? I find this image weird. I also find it weird and somewhat dystopian to picture a bunch of parents 'simultaneously' raising their arms to wave goodbye to their kids. 

-  If you're heading TOWARDS light skies how are you seeing rain clouds 'before my eyes'? If you're driving towards clear skies and away from rain, shouldn't the rain clouds be behind you?

- Not a fan of comparing rain clouds to smoke. It's just too obvious a simile. 

- I'm interested in this van having 'your name on it' and wish that was explored a little more in the poem. Is the character delusional or is there something else going on? As it is it comes up once and never again. For me that was actually the most interesting line in the poem.

- Don't like the idea of a person being described as 'average'. Doesn't mean anything. And again, the thought of two teenage girls and one teenage boy all holding hands as they walk is a weird and unnatural one. I don't know if Illinois is different but here in Ohio you never see teenagers holding hands unless they're a couple 

- What's a motorized razor? Is that the push scooter? If so needs capitalized as a brand name. 

It's weird, the more I read this poem the more I think its about some kind of weird, surreal parallel universe. The odd behaviors, the unnatural geography, the hooded parka. Perhaps either a dystopian version of the current world (is it a parka or a hazmat suit?) or something else. Would be interested to know...


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## ned (Oct 29, 2017)

hello - I can see what you're getting at Eve, but the moments are not that interesting, really.

the poetry breaks down into prose too often, and we are left with the bare facts.

rewrite in metaphors and analogy, perhaps - otherwise, it's just a plain report.

this line jumped out as being intriguing -  as I glance it has your name on it

cheers.........Ned


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## TuesdayEve (Oct 29, 2017)

Thank you Von and Ned for your input and advice, already making changes....
every word is true exactly described, all those bizarre observations happened that day...
it was during the summer and the parents were waving to their kids on a greyhound type bus leaving on a field trip...
the name on the van was of someone dear I had just been thinking of and 
the teenagers holding hands, strange but true same with the parka...
 a Razor is a motorized push scooter... thx again


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## Kevin (Oct 29, 2017)

VonBradstein said:


> A simple poem with some depth. Overall I like it. A couple of observations in no particular order of import:
> 
> - 'Torpid' is a strange word to use, for me, to describe traffic. I get what you are trying to say and there's nothing wrong with it per-say but I tend to think of traffic as being loud and generally quite a neurotic phenomena. Torpid tends to be used to describe animals in a state of sleepiness and serenity. While I get the idea is that the traffic is not moving very much, I still feel there's too much movement and noise and general activity to fit.
> 
> ...


come to the states and all would be revealed. I got every image except the name on the bus. Normal, typical stuff, all of it, here.


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## VonBradstein (Oct 29, 2017)

Kevin said:


> come to the states and all would be revealed. I got every image except the name on the bus. Normal, typical stuff, all of it, here.



I am from Ohio...


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## Kevin (Oct 29, 2017)

Kids riding motorized scooters; razor brand, colored hair, threesome(?) teens, hoodie. What am I missing? No, what are you missing?   I like that Tuesday took chances here. The mundane as seeming slightly off. Searching for a pattern, but there isn't one: it's just life.


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## VonBradstein (Oct 29, 2017)

Kevin said:


> Kids riding motorized scooters; razor brand, colored hair, threesome(?) teens, hoodie. What am I missing? No, what are you missing?   I like that Sue took chances here. The mundane as seeming slightly off. Searching for a pattern, but there isn't one: it's just life.



I prefer the idea that they’re all robots, personally.


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## Kevin (Oct 29, 2017)

I am looking at it and I can't say that there is anything that I would do to improve it. These are her experiences and my reaction to them is based on my personal experiences, but I do recognize the situations. There is a bit of rhyme at the beginning, but I don't see a need to continue with rhyme just because of that. It ads a dash of salt, you might say, I do say, and is enough. I believe this is what you call a prose-poem, right?


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## dannyboy (Oct 30, 2017)

I'd call it "moments in time" then delete that repeated line - the images capture the moments, don't need any extra telling.

There is a foreboding in this poem, I'd gently build that if i could - never admitting to the foreboding, but letting it sit there - just a thought. I enjoyed this.


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## VonBradstein (Oct 30, 2017)

Kevin said:


> I am looking at it and I can't say that there is anything that I would do to improve it. These are her experiences and my reaction to them is based on my personal experiences, but I do recognize the situations. There is a bit of rhyme at the beginning, but I don't see a need to continue with rhyme just because of that. It ads a dash of salt, you might say, I do say, and is enough. I believe this is what you call a prose-poem, right?



Really, Kevin? _Nothing to improve_? And before that you said it took _chances_? You must be joking, surely?

I mean, it is sweet - sugar sweet. It's all right. It reminds me of something one of my third grade students would turn in because I made them write a poem for class. But are we going for something simply sugar-sweet? Are we going for all right? Are we going for third grade? 

Most importantly, is this the best that the OP can do?

I suspect the honest answer to all of the above is no. With that in mind, it's kind of just one of those poems that is a big 'meh' for me because I don't get a strong indicator of where this is or when it is nor anything as far as an intention. It's all right for poems to just try to capture moments, of course, but if a poem is going to function purely on a level of evocation it has to be, well, evocative. And it has to get the details right:

- I still have problems with the rainclouds thing.
- I still have problems with the idea of parents in the school watching kids get onto buses and the notion of simultaneous waving
- I have problems with the kid in the zipped up parka
- I have problems with the teenage threesome.

^ These must surely be addressed, or at least explained, before the poem can move forward. I will buy the kid in the parka and the weird underaged threesome stuff but I need to be given a little bit more in terms of context. I need a viewpoint and a mind behind it. I need some reason for why they matter beyond the fact they just happened. Otherwise it isn't a poem but notes.

I get from the OP's response that the inspiration of the poem was that she did actually encounter these weird things and because they are weird I can be okay with all of it so long as I am given some manner of perspective. If weird is what we are capturing then it is not sufficient just to list the weird, the weird must be explored in more depth. We have to be given a perspective on it and some manner of reconciliation other than 'huh, weird day...' Otherwise I'm not sure what value it all has.

For example, the poem would work if it led back somehow to the narrator's relationship that is alluded to by the 'your name' line - which is a genuinely intriguing line and a potential for exponential improvement. Perhaps the dysfunction in the observations can be somehow compared and contrasted with a dysfunction in the poet? I'm not looking for an essay, just some way to bring it all home and inject a personal touch - some sense of closure and meaning to it all. As it stands the poet is 100% passive and the worst thing a writer can do is be passive. As it stands I see this poem less as a poem and more as a transcript of stuff being muttered into a Dictaphone...

Again, I am all right with absurd but absurd only works when there is an attempt to tie it to real life. I hope the OP does not take my comments harshly, as they are not intended as such, but she herself has noted she is working on it so I don't have any problem with her or her work. But it's ridiculous, and kind of a disservice, for a 'veteran' of a writing forum to read that *and claim nothing needs improved*. I suspect either you are being sarcastic or are for some reason intending on massaging egos. Either way, it's not really a critique and is unhelpful.


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## Kevin (Oct 30, 2017)

Pm me if you want. We're hi-jacking.


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## VonBradstein (Oct 30, 2017)

Kevin said:


> Pm me if you want. We're hi-jacking.



Not sure how talking about a poem on a thread about a poem is hijacking. But nah, I’ll pass. I’m only interested in the work and critiquing it and was hoping you would have something to offer. not so into PM discussions. 


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## TuesdayEve (Oct 30, 2017)

Thank you both for an informative and full spectrum critiques, I appriciated both points of view very much...
I would like to add as an FYI... I am like a third grader, but slowly, learning, the most basic rules and applying terms, with your help... I realize all comments are opinions and taste will vary from person to person but, I always come away with something new and useful.... thx again


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## Namyh (Nov 16, 2017)

TuesdayEve - Makes you want to appreciate those precious "moments in time" before they are gone and forgotten and when many might say "Well, there's always tomorrow." Unfortunately, tomorrow isn't promised. Nice work TE. Namyh


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## TL Murphy (Nov 16, 2017)

Tuesday, telling a story in line doesn't make it a poem.  There must be poetic device and hightened language. The best language to say something in the best way. This is prose. The repeated line doesn't make it a poem. One way to think of a poem is a snapshot or an abstract painting.  The hardest part is to not tell the reader what they are looking at.  Just present the image and let the reader make their own conclusions.  There are many ways to achieve this but here are a couple of stratagies you could try with  a piece like this.  Remove all personal references (I see, I pass, I glance).  Remove anything that "explains" what's going on or what the poet might think is going on ("the boy is average").  Remove all the adjectives and adverbs (torbid, mid-afternoon). Remove any nouns that you can't touch, see, hear or taste (time).

This kind of excercise will pare the poem down to it's essence.  You can leave it there or you can build it back up again with nuance, like metaphor, meter, rhyme (assonance and alliteration are forms of rhyme), anophora, antithesis, etc. etc. .  But you have to decide if you're writing a story or a poem.


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## TuesdayEve (Nov 17, 2017)

Thank you, TL for your very good advice, everything you said is true, and that's my focus. Others have also advised, showing not telling, and you're right, it's hard since telling comes very naturally. Practice, practice and disapline...something I'm learning is necessary to improve the work.
Removing adverbs, adjectives and personal references, not easy as I will really have to think... but a very good excersice I will do....metaphor does not come naturally but I'm learning it is a highly valued tool/gift in poetry and continue to work on...thx again


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## Nellie (Nov 17, 2017)

TL Murphy said:


> Tuesday, telling a story in line doesn't make it a poem.  There must be poetic device and hightened language. The best language to say something in the best way. This is prose. The repeated line doesn't make it a poem.



Many famous poets have repeated lines in their poems. Repetition is a central part of poetry that ads to the enjoyment of a poem. As in the poem "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" by Robert Frost (one of my favorites)



> And miles to go before I sleep,
> and miles to go before I sleep






			
				TLMurphy said:
			
		

> One way to think of a poem is a snapshot or an abstract painting.  The hardest part is to not tell the reader what they are looking at.  Just present the image and let the reader make their own conclusions.  There are many ways to achieve this but here are a couple of stratagies you could try with  a piece like this.  Remove all personal references (I see, I pass, I glance).  Remove anything that "explains" what's going on or what the poet might think is going on ("the boy is average").  Remove all the adjectives and adverbs (torbid, mid-afternoon). Remove any nouns that you can't touch, see, hear or taste (time).
> 
> This kind of excercise will pare the poem down to it's essence.  You can leave it there or you can build it back up again with nuance, like metaphor, meter, rhyme (assonance and alliteration are forms of rhyme), anophora, antithesis, etc. etc. .  But you have to decide if you're writing a story or a poem.



 Words ARE the building blocks of poetry. One has to start somewhere..... with their own imagination first. Then try to convey that image in words.


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## TL Murphy (Nov 17, 2017)

Yes, repetition is one poetic device.  It works.  But if it’s the only poetic device, that does not make a poem.


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## Pelwrath (Nov 17, 2017)

It's almost as if your describing what you want the reader to feel. Nothing wrong with directing the 'Horse to water'.  To me poetry is about the emotional connection you help create in the readers mind. I did like your use of the common things in this poem


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## TL Murphy (Nov 17, 2017)

The poem needs CONTEXT, which is what I think VonB is pointing out.  Context is everything.  You can get as wierd or as dark as you want as long as the context of the poem supports the atmosphere in which these images make some kind of sense.  Context is the world you create in the poem and then you pull the reader into that world.  The context sets the rules and the poet can play by those rules or break those rules but the ground has to be there for the playing or breaking to be significant.  This is where metaphor comes into play. Metaphor can create a context that the reader can then associate with greater truths.  It doesn’t have to be elaborate - could be just a few words - as simple as looking at a river or falling off a stool or running from the cops. It becomes a metaphor for life. An extended metaphor like this is called a “conceit”. Then, whatever happens in the poem, happens within the world of this metaphor/context. Within solid context, subtle images can then take on great significance.


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## TuesdayEve (Nov 18, 2017)

I've rewritten the poem. Added metaphors and elaborated descriptions and... something else I felt was important to the reader ... seems I failed to deliver that message in the oringinal version. Look forward to your discovery...


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## TuesdayEve (Nov 18, 2017)

Sorry about this everyone not tech coordinated...
Double post


Revision: Today

Driving southbound
post sunrise humid morning
approaching Logan High School parking lot
a big blue bus stands waiting
ready for the adventure

A flock of parents
straight lined like Canada Geese
antisapating lift off wave in unison
to their children inside
the bus pulls away
wings decend
their adventure begins

Light skies ahead
dark skies behind
rain clouds above
so low they dissolve before my eyes
van passes on the right
a brief glance 
your name is on it
a tender moment relived

Inch worm gridlock
sweltering high noon sun
sear puddles from the morning rain
three teenagers side by side
camouflaged by fast food gas station signage
two girls with a boy between them

The first girl in sunglasses 
sleeveless sundress purple hair
the other dressed identical with orange curls
in the middle a pale skinned boy
brown hair wearing a t-shirt and shorts
no tattoos
all three holding hands

Four o'clock
ninety degrees brings an oven warm breeze
crushed between pavement and hot sun
long breaths rasp 
perspiration burns tired eyes
see a teenage boy
oblivious
wearing a zipped up navy blue hooded parka
flying down the sidewalk 
on a motorized scooter

a day to remember






TuesdayEve said:


> Driving down the road
> approaching a high school parking lot
> I see a coach bus and twenty parents standing along side simultaneously
> raise their arms and wave
> ...


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## TL Murphy (Nov 19, 2017)

What is the connection between these divers incidences?  What is the climax? How does the poem build to the climax? What’s is the conclusion?


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## TuesdayEve (Nov 20, 2017)

Good questions...climax, truth is I didn't think about a climax and I don't think there is a one. Is it naive to ask if there must be a climax?  Since you mentioned it, it must be important, I almost feel silly asking and do not mean any disrespect  but I'm curious....
The connection between these incidence, they are true, bizarre observations of one day...now I begin to wonder if that's enough...
 The conclusion is the last line and perhaps could be stronger
Thanks TL for your time....lotz to think about now


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## TuesdayEve (Nov 20, 2017)

Well TL, I realize now my ansewers yesterday were inadequate,
it kept me up half the night because something didn't sit write
I realized I failed as the writer to convey to the reader a connection between these occurances
and also the conclusion.


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## TL Murphy (Nov 20, 2017)

1. Context.

2. Every story (and a poem is a story even if it doesn't tell a story) to be successful needs a very fundamentally structure:  beginning, climax (or turn), conclusion.  A poem is no different. We often think of the climax as a “turn”.  This is where the poem changes.  Something is introduced to cast a different light on everything that precedes it.  The conclusion brings the beginning and the turn together, or at least shows the relationship.  In haiku, this all happens in three lines. Koans and tanka are interesting forms that also compress this structure.  In a koan, line 1 makes a statement, line 2 supports that statement, line 3 introduces a turn or paradox. Line 4 offers a conclusion.  In a tanka, the turn generally comes on line 3 (middle line). Many will likely argue here that I am imposing artificial structure on poetry, but their argument is bunk. The form is universal.


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## jenthepen (Nov 20, 2017)

You could write a final stanza about the evening back at home - a return to sanity sort of feeling?


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## TuesdayEve (Nov 20, 2017)

TL, 
Thanks for defining climax in a poem, it makes sense, a turning point... 
alot to digest in terms of my work and thinking, being conscious of it
thanks again


Jen,
That's a great idea, that would help draw it together,
 I see now it's in fragments and needs cohesion, thanks again


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