# ...But just HOW bad are your first drafts?



## Denbigh (Jan 24, 2010)

All the writing advice people say that the 'true' writing is the editing and revising, and getting it right first time is a privilege. But how true is that, really? Does anyone's first drafts read like they've been written by a six year old, before being sliced up to become beautiful prose? 

So yeah, just how bad are your first drafts? Mine are horrible -- descriptions consist o stuff like  _she looked at it and she realised that it was green and round and shiny and it had a smallish hole in the centre and it looked like it was soft so she tried poking it and it felt kind of like cotton_


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## moderan (Jan 24, 2010)

I end up editing the first draft about 75% of the time. It's generally the most immediate.


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## alanmt (Jan 24, 2010)

Mine are varied.  Most requires some editing, but a first draft will also usually include bits where iI was inspired that require little editing and total crap passages that have to be rewritten entirely or very substantially revised.


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## Ungood (Jan 24, 2010)

Denbigh said:


> All the writing advice people say that the 'true' writing is the editing and revising, and getting it right first time is a privilege. But how true is that, really? Does anyone's first drafts read like they've been written by a six year old, before being sliced up to become beautiful prose?
> 
> So yeah, just how bad are your first drafts? Mine are horrible -- descriptions consist o stuff like  _she looked at it and she realised that it was green and round and shiny and it had a smallish hole in the centre and it looked like it was soft so she tried poking it and it felt kind of like cotton_



Mine are bad. Very bad. I make no apologies for how bad they are. (Take a post on my Blog, and realize that as bad as they are, they have been revised, at least once, because my first drafts I could not figure out what I just typed)

But those raw ideas, like a big ol' block of clay are then reformed, refined, sculpted, painted, and then finally fired into a finished porcelain product.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jan 24, 2010)

alanmt said:


> Mine are varied. Most requires some editing, but a first draft will also usually include bits where iI was inspired that require little editing and total crap passages that have to be rewritten entirely or very substantially revised.


 

This.


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## Denbigh (Jan 24, 2010)

The more you do them, the better you get at them, I suppose. Harlan Ellison's first draft and final draft was "_Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman_


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## JosephB (Jan 24, 2010)

My short stories are mostly thought through and outlined in detail before I start writing.

As I write, I do a lot of editing and fiddling -- rewriting sentences and paragraphs until I'm satisfied with them. Because I work from an outline, I often write the story out of sequence. 

As a result of this method, there really is no "first draft." And when I'm finished, there isn't a lot or rewriting to do -- just tweaks, refinement and proof reading.



Denbigh said:


> All the writing advice people say that the 'true' writing is the editing and revising, and getting it right first time is a privilege.



None of that matters. You'll arrive at your own working method. And as long as you're satisfied with the results, it doesn't matter what the "writing advice people say" -- whoever they are.


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## Sam (Jan 24, 2010)

Once finished, I'll always read over the story from beginning to end, picking up on any typos, grammatical errors, or plot holes. But usually, as far as the bones of the story go, my first draft is my final draft less minor corrections and tweaks. I very rarely make huge changes to the story unless something major is wrong -- like a plot strand that doesn't have any place.


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## anubis608 (Jan 24, 2010)

Mine are pretty horrible for long works. Shorter, not quite so bad. The one project, I had to remove and replace three chapters after several tries to fix it. The problem I tend to have, as I go through things again, is I can do one or two things well at a time, but forget the other things. Most of my work is on revising rather than drafting.


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## Like a Fox (Jan 24, 2010)

I edit as I go pretty neurotically. To the point that once I'm finished, I leave it for a day or two. I might change a few words, or get rid of a superfluous sentence of two, but otherwise I'm done. So IMO my first drafts are good.

It does make it nearly impossible to finish things, I lose steam easily because the raw thought gets thwarted by obsessive compulsive nit picking. I might have to un-learn my edit-as-I-go tendencies if I ever want to write more than a short story. Or even a fucking short story these days.


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## movieman (Jan 24, 2010)

Denbigh said:


> So yeah, just how bad are your first drafts? Mine are horrible



I can't entirely agree with Hemingway's claim that the first draft of anything is sh*t, but my first drafts are generally horrible and so are almost all first drafts I've ever read written by other people.  And it doesn't matter, because unless you're so good that you can write a great first draft, you're not going to show the story to anyone until you've got it right.


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## The Backward OX (Jan 24, 2010)

...http://www.mysmiley.net/freesmiley.php?smiley=party/party0011.gif


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## Eluixa (Jan 25, 2010)

Fairly pathetic is what it is, lol. I get ideas down, and sometimes I get passages that I like alot, that only have to be somewhat tweaked, but mostly my chapters are like huge puzzles that I arrange, and rearrange, and cut, and paste, and read ten times for grammer problems.
Add, subtract, trade common for poetic. Laugh at myself.

Somedays I think I ought to write those choose your way sort of books, where you decide which page you'll go to to get the next chapter because I have difficulty making up my mind how I want something to go. 
And I am neurotic as Fox describes, editing as I go.


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## Indigo (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm an obsessive editor. I write on paper first, which is always covered in crossings out. I then type it up, re-drafting and re-writing as I go. Then I print it, cover the printed copy in alterations, then make the changes on the digital copy.

Repeat as neccessary.

This is why I fail at NaNo. I'm too controlling. My official first drafy is always like my sixth.


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## C.M.C. (Jan 25, 2010)

My first drafts are, barring typos and whatnot, virtually identical to the final versions.  I must be special.


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## PageOfCups (Jan 25, 2010)

C.M.C. said:


> My first drafts are, barring typos and whatnot, virtually identical to the final versions. I must be special.


 
Mine too. Though that's mostly because I edit as I go along. If I type something I don't like it gets deleted there and then, not when I come to revise it. I also have the habbit of re-reading the last couple of paragraphs and improving them once every 10-20 minutes. So my first draft is usually more like a third draft considering how much I do to it while it's being written.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jan 25, 2010)

C.M.C. said:


> My first drafts are, barring typos and whatnot, virtually identical to the final versions. I must be special.


 

Is that for short stories?


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## C.M.C. (Jan 25, 2010)

Ilasir Maroa said:


> Is that for short stories?



It's for just about anything.  I don't recall ever having to tear something apart and basically rewrite it.  I'm not that kind of writer.


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## moderan (Jan 25, 2010)

CMC, you're not alone. I'm pretty much the same way. I've tried multiple drafts and it doesn't improve the product in most cases. I don't really see novels and short stories as different animals.


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## alanmt (Jan 25, 2010)

C.M.C. said:


> My first drafts are, barring typos and whatnot, virtually identical to the final versions. *I must be special.*


 


C.M.C. said:


> It's for just about anything. I don't recall ever having to tear something apart and basically rewrite it. *I'm not that kind of writer.*


 
I think these posts should be edited, C.M.C.  Specifically, I would remove the sentences in bold.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jan 25, 2010)

C.M.C. said:


> It's for just about anything. I don't recall ever having to tear something apart and basically rewrite it. I'm not that kind of writer.


 

Just curious.  I know a lot of people who plan out their short sories and then write one draft but who take several drafts on novels.


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## Sam (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm the same as CMC and Mod. One draft for 'most everything I write. Of the six novels, there's only been one major rewrite. The first one was so bad, though, that gutting it with a sledgehammer wouldn't have done anything, so I'm in the process of rewriting it. 

Some people can produce their best on the first go. I do it for my college assignments all the time. Usually with about a day to spare before the hand-in date.


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## Raging_Hopeful (Jan 25, 2010)

> I think these posts should be edited, C.M.C. Specifically, I would remove the sentences in bold.


Hahaha -- nice one alan.

I always revise and edit. I also workshop my work extensively both in academic format and in recreational format. Both are important. I really don't think a first draft is ever the best version of a work. There is ALWAYS room for improvement.


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## moderan (Jan 25, 2010)

You haven't seen my second drafts
Erle Stanley Gardner, Ron Goulart, and Jim Thompson are my role models. Would that I could get to that point.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jan 25, 2010)

Sam W said:


> I'm the same as CMC and Mod. One draft for 'most everything I write. Of the six novels, there's only been one major rewrite. The first one was so bad, though, that gutting it with a sledgehammer wouldn't have done anything, so I'm in the process of rewriting it.
> 
> Some people can produce their best on the first go. I do it for my college assignments all the time. Usually with about a day to spare before the hand-in date.


 

Eh, I barely ever revised for school work unless it was required or I was using ome other non-school project to kill two birds with one stone. Which I did a lot in my english classes.


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## Destroyer (Jan 25, 2010)

I'll just say this much and let you figure out the rest: I'm currently on my sixth draft.


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## Eluixa (Jan 25, 2010)

Raging_Hopeful said:


> Hahaha -- nice one alan.
> 
> I always revise and edit. *I also workshop my work extensively both in academic format and in recreational format*. Both are important. I really don't think a first draft is ever the best version of a work. There is ALWAYS room for improvement.


 
What is this, please? I've never heard of it.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jan 26, 2010)

Eluixa said:


> What is this, please? I've never heard of it.


 

I'm assuming she means a structured workshop and stuff likethe forum. I not, I feel rather clueless.


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## Non Serviam (Jan 26, 2010)

Mine have improved.  They used to be bloody atrocious, and now they're usually just mediocre.

I used to have a bad habit of editing too soon after writing it, with the result that I was tinkering with the cosmetic stuff (grammar, specific word choice) without fixing the more fundamental problems (plot holes, strange character behaviour, deus ex machina) because I was too close to the writing to see them.  It took me a long time to break that.

I'm also slowly learning to kill my babies, which is also hard going.

Kill my babies, you ask?  I mean those little phrases, images and metaphors you think are really clever or well-done when you write them, and don't realise how cringeworthy they are until 1 second after letting someone else read the manuscript.


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## Mistique (Jan 26, 2010)

I also write shitty first drafts and turn it into something readable in rewriting. It makes me insecure, it makes me think that I can't do it which is the main reason why I do think of idea's of what to write, but don't start the actual writing. I have this illusion in my head that a 'good' writer writes amasingly the very first time. 

When I write RPG's I usually do it in a matter of minutes responding very quickly and not editing that much at all (since there is no time to do that) and somehow it turns out to be okay. So somehow if I am not so scared of failing I manage to do fine. I tried to remind myself of that when I am writing a story.I try to tell myself that it is okay to write shitty (although the critical voice in my mind keeps telling me that it is not) and rewrite later.


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## Ungood (Jan 26, 2010)

Non Serviam said:


> Kill my babies, you ask?  I mean those little phrases, images and metaphors you think are really clever or well-done when you write them, and don't realise how cringeworthy they are until 1 second after letting someone else read the manuscript.



Yes, Stephen King made mention of this. "Kill your Darling", I think he said. But in any case, yah, I like when that happens, when we think something prophetic or grandly insightful and then get slapped in the face with a wet herring of reality and realize how dorky it really sounds.


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## RomanticRose (Jan 26, 2010)

If I wanted people to know just how bad my first drafts are, then they wouldn't be first drafts.  My crappy drafts are between me and the spousal unit.


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## C.M.C. (Jan 26, 2010)

Mistique said:


> So somehow if I am not so scared of failing I manage to do fine.



That's an important key.  There's nothing to be afraid of when writing.  The words aren't going to bite back if they don't come out perfect the first time.  Like anything that involves creativity, being perfect is out of the question.  All you can do is your best, and you can't even go that far if you're paralyzed by the fear of not being perfect.


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## Mistique (Jan 26, 2010)

C.M.C. said:


> That's an important key. There's nothing to be afraid of when writing. The words aren't going to bite back if they don't come out perfect the first time. Like anything that involves creativity, being perfect is out of the question. All you can do is your best, and you can't even go that far if you're paralyzed by the fear of not being perfect.


 
Now that would be going against my very nature  I am a perfectionist

But you are right it is quite paralyzing


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## Eluixa (Jan 26, 2010)

Non Serviam said:


> Mine have improved. They used to be bloody atrocious, and now they're usually just mediocre.
> 
> I used to have a bad habit of editing too soon after writing it, with the result that I was tinkering with the cosmetic stuff (grammar, specific word choice) without fixing the more fundamental problems (plot holes, strange character behaviour, deus ex machina) because I was too close to the writing to see them. It took me a long time to break that.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you. I was just very happy with one such, just a night ago.


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## Destroyer (Jan 26, 2010)

Oh, I've had a lot of those. Painful to look back on.


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## Mike C (Jan 27, 2010)

My first drafts are generally about 90% perfect, because I edit as I go. I can't work any other way.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jan 27, 2010)

Mike C said:


> My first drafts are generally about 90% perfect, because I edit as I go. I can't work any other way.




Do you do a lot of pre-planning as well?


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## moderan (Jan 27, 2010)

Ilasir Maroa said:


> Do you do a lot of pre-planning as well?



Bang! There's the billion-dollar question.
Yes for me...by the time I'm doing a draft, I already have character sketches, some vignettes, and my major plot points.


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## Sam (Jan 27, 2010)

Ilasir Maroa said:


> Do you do a lot of pre-planning as well?



I very seldom plot. Some people swear by it. I guess it's personal preference, but I like my writing to be unpredictable, so that it will surprise me, and so that sometimes I can create an amazing spur-of-the-moment cliffhanger or red herring which blows my mind. 

I find it more fun that way. Having an outline, for me, is like writing an essay for college where you have to adhere to structure and rules. You know from the start exactly where it's going, and writing it -- for me, I'm not generalising -- is mundane.


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## Ilasir Maroa (Jan 27, 2010)

moderan said:


> Bang! There's the billion-dollar question.
> Yes for me...by the time I'm doing a draft, I already have character sketches, some vignettes, and my major plot points.




Yes.  My point being, you can sort of "revise" as you go, in the sense that by the time you have a complete draft, you're done and with the plot  holes fixed.  But that's not quite the same as having a perfect _first_ draft.  Just because you don't revise after you get a complete draft, that doesn't mean you've revised any less than someone who writes the first draft all the way through and then revises after.


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## Eluixa (Jan 27, 2010)

Maybe I misunderstood the question. My first draft is nowhere near finished, and by the time it is, it will have been thoroughly tenderized.

I first just meant the initial go, each writing burst, before I start picking at it. So, in that case, I imagine it will be cleaner by far when the initial 'book' is all laid out. Still, to me, I would have considered myself to kind of be going from my first draft, straight to about my eighth.


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## Mike C (Jan 28, 2010)

Ilasir Maroa said:


> Do you do a lot of pre-planning as well?



None, I like to wing it. If I try to plan a story I get bored. I generally start out with an interesting first sentence, or a phrase or title, and see where that takes me.


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## Mike C (Jan 28, 2010)

Ungood said:


> Yes, Stephen King made mention of this. "Kill your Darling", I think he said.



It's not a King quote, but has been attributed to Mark Twain and William Faulkner, but originally the phrase was ‘murder your darlings’, and it came from Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch: “Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it – whole-heartedly – and delete it before sending your manuscripts to press. Murder your darlings”.


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## Cefor (Jan 28, 2010)

I've done this weird technique; where I write down a lot of crappy sentences and the general idea of the chapter first, sometimes leaving out big chunks but writing 'he asks her about the history, she tells him' and that sort of thing.
Later I go back and actually 'fill it in', writing descriptions, tidying up and writing dialogue and all the other bits that actually make the story good (well... that's relative).

It seemed to work, the people I actually allowed to read it seemed to love it. These weren't friends or family either, so I know they weren't just trying to please me.

A friend 'stole' a copy of a short story I wrote and read it; he said it was pretty good and that one was a total winged attempt, with a big edit later. I seem to change tactic a lot.

I also gather up tons of ideas, I have loads of Word documents which detail the background story to many varied worlds, people, technologies and magic; hardly any of them come to fruition.


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## Mike C (Jan 29, 2010)

Cefor said:


> I've done this weird technique; where I write down a lot of crappy sentences and the general idea of the chapter first, sometimes leaving out big chunks but writing 'he asks her about the history, she tells him' and that sort of thing.
> Later I go back and actually 'fill it in', writing descriptions, tidying up and writing dialogue and all the other bits that actually make the story good (well... that's relative).



Not that weird. Will Self uses post-it notes in much the same way, jots things down as they occur to him, plasters a wall in them, and when he thinks he has enough, he takes them all down, puts them in order and starts writing.


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## dwellerofthedeep (Feb 6, 2010)

After a while revising my second novel I've found that reading the original draft of it again would likely frustrate me so much as to make me hate the whole book.  It was that bad (and that old).  Seriously, just about anything that could be wrong with it, was.


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## StephenP2003 (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm still trying to find an effective process (i.e. a process that gets me from idea to finished, polished manuscript). All the paid writing I've done up to this point has been nonfiction -- columns, editorials, and news -- which rarely exceeds 1,000 words. For those, I don't outline, though I usually brainstorm. The first draft is about 80-90% similar to the final draft.

But now that I'm venturing into fiction, I need to continue searching for a new process. Even on my meds, I have short attention span for things that don't have a conceivable end. And even less of an attention span for things that don't have a deadline. I've tried writing novels on the fly. I can't finish them. I've tried basic outlines. I either lose interest or I start finding flaws in the outline that discourage from even trying to fix the outline, let alone continue writing scenes.

I'd never finished writing the first draft of a novel, until December 2009. I developed an outline prior to November, and then I trudged through NaNoWriMo and ended up with a 57,000-word manuscript. The plot needs revisions, and the writing is garbage. Not to say my style is totally unsalvageable, but I adopted a minimalistic process just to get through it. I have placeholders for descriptions, character names, and even plot devices. Some scenes are 90% dialogue because I just couldn't bring myself to write any good action or description that day. In other words, the manuscript is underwritten, whereas it seems like most people have the opposite problem.

To answer the question, "How bad" is my first draft: Bad enough to make me wonder if anyone else's drafts are this bad.


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## Vorrec (Oct 9, 2010)

I don't work with drafts. I usually go paragraph by paragraph, moving onto the next only when I am completely satistied with each. (Which takes a while. I think I'm obsessed.) That said, I still go back and make revisions, but only by accident when I read it over.


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## JanC (Oct 16, 2010)

I took a stab at my first novel with last year's NaNoWriMo.  I finished the month with a 50,000+ word rough first draft.  While it was exciting to have actually completed a novel (especially since I did no planning ahead of time), I become completely overwhelmed when I think of going back and revising it.  It's a good first attempt, but I think my next novel (if there is a next novel) will be written slower, with lots of pre-planning so that there isn't as much to go back and fix later.


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