# Relationships?



## LeeC (Aug 19, 2014)

My old head is muddled, especially after asking my wife and her further confusing me. The clearest way I can present my question is by a drawing showing relationships, and noting the relationships that elude me. I hope the drawing comes through clear enough for you to understand. 


To add insult to mental incapacitation, I couldn't upload the image. So you can find it as a one page pdf at the following url.

http://achinook.squarespace.com/storage/calan/RELATIONSHIPS.pdf


Thank you,
LeeC


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## Cran (Aug 19, 2014)

> If C is uncle of F, what is F's relation to B?
> what is B's relation to D?



F is the grandniece or grandnephew of B / or B is the great aunt or great uncle of F

If B and D share the same bloodlines (as suggested by the colour) and parents (as suggested by the hierarchical structure), then they are siblings.


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## LeeC (Aug 19, 2014)

Thank you Cran. That's what I first thought, then made the mistake of asking the wife and having her confuse me :-(


Much obliged,
Lee


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## shadowwalker (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm confused by your diagram. You have A (male) married to B, resulting in a son, and B having some relationship to D, which results in a daughter. Yet you say D is "the mother". Reading Cran's comment, I see now that B and D are probably not married, but being of the same bloodline doesn't necessarily mean siblings - cousins, perhaps, aunt/uncle themselves, yada yada yada. But agree that Cran's assessment is probably correct, assuming siblings and not some other family relationship.

Just a note (for anyone dealing with various family relationship questions): There are genealogy programs out there (some free, others ranging from cheap to horribly expensive) that you can simply fill in the blanks and it will show the relationships between any individual to the selected individual. I have one for my personal family history but have used it for just such cases in my writing. They're also helpful for keeping track of timelines and events.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Aug 20, 2014)

I think I got it. B and D are sisters which would make D the aunt of C. 

C is the uncle of F we know that. That logically would make E his sister. We know that D is not his mother, B is his mother. The only way for it to make sense in my opinion for A to have first married then divorce D, then since everyone but A share the same bloodline, A would have had to marry D's sister, thus D is C's Aunt and D is B's sister. Hope that makes sense.

I love these logic problems :icon_cheesygrin:


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## LeeC (Aug 20, 2014)

*shadowwalker*,

Thanks for the reply.

What this all comes down to is that in my collection of connected sketches, *C* is an uncle of *F*. In one of the sketches a character asks how *F* is *C*'s nephew, and is told that *C*'s mother was *F*'s great aunt/whatever.

When I innocently asked my wife if I had it right, she turned it all around in telling me how *C* couldn't be *F*'s uncle because yada, yada, yada. Exasperated because I didn't care how not (just cared how), I turned to google and was further vexed by all the trick genealogy ramblings I found. 

By this time it's an hour past my bedtime, I'm needing but can't find my second cane, and I've had enough  So I tried to pose my question with a simple drawing, and ask on this forum.

What it all boils down to, is what relation must *F* have with *C*'s mother *B*, if *C* is to be *F*'s uncle?  Any definitive answer will satisfy me, pretty please. 

Ever been into the flow of a story you're writing, and someone distracts you with a confusing non-answer to a simple question 

Best wishes,
LeeC


PS: Back in the 60s I spent a bit of time fishing for walleye in that big muddy river near your neck of the woods.


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## LeeC (Aug 20, 2014)

*mrmustard615*,


Actually what you say doesn't make sense to this addled old mind, but not because of you're lack of trying 


All I want to get at is what relation *F* is to *B*, if *B*'s son *C* is *F*'s uncle?


And to get on with my story 


Thanks,
LeeC


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## Deleted member 56686 (Aug 20, 2014)

LeeC look at Cran's post. He has it right. F would be B's grandnephew.


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## Gargh (Aug 20, 2014)

Grandnephew, yes, but that means then that A is the father of both C & E by B & D who are sisters (right?!??!?), in order for C & E to be half-siblings and for F to biologically be C's nephew...?


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## Deleted member 56686 (Aug 20, 2014)

Right Gargh. actually F would be B's half-grandnephew if you want to be technical.


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## shadowwalker (Aug 20, 2014)

Gargh said:


> Grandnephew, yes, but that means then that A is the father of both C & E by B & D who are sisters (right?!??!?), in order for C & E to be half-siblings and for F to biologically be C's nephew...?





mrmustard615 said:


> Right Gargh. actually F would be B's half-grandnephew if you want to be technical.



Yeah, if C is the uncle, he and E would have to be half-siblings. Otherwise, they're cousins, which would make F a second cousin to C, not any sort of nephew. Good catch(es)


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## LeeC (Aug 20, 2014)

Please  my old mind can't get around all these intricacies, though I appreciate your comments.


In my sketches *A* was married only once, and that to *B* who died in childbirth. All that matters to me is what relationship *F* needs to have with *B*, for *B*'s son *C* to be *F*'s uncle.


In appreciation,
LeeC


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## Deleted member 56686 (Aug 20, 2014)

LeeC said:


> Please  my old mind can't get around all these intricacies, though I appreciate your comments.
> 
> 
> In my sketches *A* was married only once, and that to *B* who died in childbirth. All that matters to me is what relationship *F* needs to have with *B*, for *B*'s son *C* to be *F*'s uncle.
> ...




It doesn't matter. He would have had to have had a relationship with D to have E. So the whole half-grandnephew theory still holds.


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## Cran (Aug 20, 2014)

The reason for the confusion_ is_ the key requirement - that C is *uncle* to F. In fact, F is C's *first cousin once removed* because C and E are first cousins. 

The reason that the key requirement can hold, and therefore the extended relationships no longer reflect the actual genealogical relationships, is that the term uncle has broader social applications and is often used instead of more complicated explanations (such as "my first cousin once removed" or "mummy's special friend who comes around on Thursdays").


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## Deleted member 56686 (Aug 20, 2014)

That sounds logical Cran. That would still make B and D sisters I assume.


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## LeeC (Aug 20, 2014)

*Cran*,

That explanation makes sense, even to someone a dense as me.

Rather than try to come up with some specific family configuration that makes C the true uncle of F, I'm just going to leave the Uncle C stand without specifics. Let the reader imagine what will, if they even think about it. 

As you say, there are many uncles. When I was stationed in Europe, prior to Indochina, I was even an uncle 

Sorry to cause so much round and round with my own confusion, and thank you all for humoring a stubborn old man. 

In appreciation,
LeeC


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## shadowwalker (Aug 21, 2014)

Cran said:


> The reason for the confusion_ is_ the key requirement - that C is *uncle* to F. In fact, F is C's *first cousin once removed* because C and E are first cousins.
> 
> The reason that the key requirement can hold, and therefore the extended relationships no longer reflect the actual genealogical relationships, is that the term uncle has broader social applications and is often used instead of more complicated explanations (such as "my first cousin once removed" or "mummy's special friend who comes around on Thursdays").



For the OP, here's an explanation of first/second/third cousins and the "removed" bit. (It's complicated but workable )

As to calling someone other than a real uncle an uncle, I've only seen that with the boyfriends. Usually - and maybe it's a Midwest US thing - if the person is any sort of cousin, they're just called cousins, not uncles or aunts as that would just confuse things.


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