# May I stay?



## garza (May 22, 2010)

Having been justifiably, but very mildly, rebuked by an Extension Officer from the Ministry of Forums and Blogs, I now want to offer my apologies to any to whom my words in the past have given offence. I want to start over with a clean slate. I have erased all I could of what I said before, and if the dreaded cane field thread remains, I would appreciate having it deleted as well. It is locked, or I would do that myself.

If I am allowed to remain, I make the following promises:
1. To never again post any poetry here.
2. To never again offer explanations of why I write something the way I do. My previous explanations were taken as mean-spirited attempts at justifying perceived errors and a stubborn refusal to admit that there was a problem. 'Explanation' and 'justification' are not the same, but I shall in future eschew both.
3. To always take your comments and suggestions to heart. I was doing this before, but apparently it was not seen to be so, as there was no revision of what was already written. The only words I have saved from before are the words you wrote, duly noted and filed for future reference.  
4. To always express my appreciation for your comments and suggestions, for indeed they are appreciated. I've been writing steadily for 60 years and living by what I write for over 55 years, but I continue to try to learn more about my craft every day.

I will look for comments about my possible continued membership here, and base my decision on your remarks.


----------



## moderan (May 22, 2010)

Imnsho:
Of course you may...and I don't think any promises are necessary as conditions. You can always put a sort of disclaimer on your things, saying that you appreciate the comments but rarely revise posted work as it captures what you wished to say then, but perhaps not now, or in the future. That should mollify some of the complainants. 
There are a lot of know-it-alls here and in any writing forum, garza. It comes with the territory. If you have any trouble with a posted remark, simply ask a moderator to take a look. That's a better solution than replying right away, and after all, it's what we're here for.


----------



## garza (May 22, 2010)

Thank you, Moderan, that's good advice. 

And while no promises may be required, I will make one other. Not only will I not post any poetry, I will not comment on the poetry published by others. I'll read it, but keep my mouth shut. 

I'll not make the same promise for prose, either fiction or non-fiction.


----------



## moderan (May 22, 2010)

Well, that's pretty much how I work with the poetry section myself. I do read the offerings..as I manage, after a fashion, the lyrics section, I have some small clue about verse, but don't feel that my opinions in that sector are either asked for or warranted.
The only thing I'd say is that it's probably important to remember is that the bulk of posters on this or most other writing forums have little or no professional experience. It's very possible, given that reality, that they literally cannot understand where you're coming from. But your experience gives them a model.


----------



## SilverMoon (May 22, 2010)

garza, I frequently post in Poetry and was aware of what was going on, ready to PM you requesting that you remain apart of group because of the fine nature of your work. Work which we can only benefit from. Please re-consider. I'm selfish. I don't want to miss out on good work or dialouge with it's author. Laurie


----------



## Olly Buckle (May 22, 2010)

I don't know what has been going on, I was surprised when I saw you had deleted your posts in the oral storytelling thread, they seemed a useful and informed contribution. I think you are foolish to limit yourself , but that is your business. When I post in poetry I realise that I am no expert and usually preface my remarks with something like "It occurs to me that you may ..." or "Have you considered the possibility that ... " . If some one takes offence after that, that is their problem on the whole. 
  We have no restrictions about race, creed, age or any other criteria except a reasonable degree of literacy and of civility, you are literate, stay civil and you will be most welcome.


----------



## garza (May 22, 2010)

moderan - My experience may actually be a handicap in a forum such as this, blocking communication at a very basic level. If there are few professional writers here, and by professional I mean people who've never made their living any other way but by writing, then there could be a problem.

I do know a bit about verse. Though poetry has never been an economic factor in my writing, I have had quite a number of poems published in the little literary magazines, beginning I think in the '60s, and have studied poetry for as long as I've studied any other genre, experimenting with different forms. However, I will abide by my promise and consider the poets' corner as off limits.  

Silver Moon - Thank you very much. It means a lot to know there is one person who is not angry at me. I will be around, but you may need to learn to appreciate covered structures, drip irrigation, and integrated farming systems if you want to read much of what I'm writing these days. I'm also tempted to try a bit of fiction again.

Olly - I wanted to wipe the slate clean so that I could, as it were, start afresh. If 'The Cane Field' thread has not been removed, you can look through and judge my civility for yourself. That's enough said on that subject.


----------



## Gumby (May 22, 2010)

I read through much of the "dreaded cane field thread" and I must say it was mild compared to some of the 'discussions' I've read on this forum.   I don't think anyone wants you to leave.


----------



## moderan (May 22, 2010)

garza said:


> moderan - My experience may actually be a handicap in a forum such as this, blocking communication at a very basic level. If there are few professional writers here, and by professional I mean people who've never made their living any other way but by writing, then there could be a problem.
> 
> I do know a bit about verse. Though poetry has never been an economic factor in my writing, I have had quite a number of poems published in the little literary magazines, beginning I think in the '60s, and have studied poetry for as long as I've studied any other genre, experimenting with different forms. However, I will abide by my promise and consider the poets' corner as off limits.


Very possibly. By professional experience, I meant people that had actually _sold_ any of their work. That group on most internet writing forums is quite small. The group that has never made their living another way is probably yours alone. There are several traditionally published novelists and quite a few short story/article writers, journalists and poets here. I'm sure we'd all enjoy your anecdotes over the course of time.
Rather than looking at a lack of commensurate experience as a problem, and your long years in the trade as a handicap, let's instead look at both as a jumping-off point and see how we enjoy the pool.
The "Publishing" board would certainly benefit from your presence, for starters. I know the mod there personally, and I'm sure he'd agree.


----------



## Baron (May 22, 2010)

The thread in question has now been unlocked.


----------



## garza (May 22, 2010)

Moderan - Perhaps we can all sit down at the Riverside Bar in Belize City one day and hoist a stout or two in salute to the Beautiful People - the publishers who agree to buy what we write and sign cheques for Euros and pounds and dollars and pesos and quetzals.


----------



## The Backward OX (May 22, 2010)

Apropos of absolutely nothing, but wasn’t there a little story posted here once, won an LM set by a previous Manager if memory serves, and it was all about Belize? Something about Mayan lap-dancers and a scam involving a sink-hole? Or am I thinking of something else entirely?


----------



## Nickie (May 23, 2010)

Just want to welcome you back, Garza.


Nickie


----------



## garza (May 23, 2010)

Backward Ox - With that I'm not familiar. I've only run into a few people in various forums who know exactly where Belize is, and even fewer Belizeans.

On the subject of writings about Belize, however, may I take this opportunity to recommend 'Beka Lamb' by Zee Edgell. Edgell has been a newspaper reporter and editor, teacher, and in the 1980's, just after independence, served as Director of the Women's Bureau. 'Beka Lamb' was Edgell's first, and best, book, winning the 1982 Fawcett Society Book Prize and gaining an international readership, the first Belizean book to do so. If you can find it, I highly recommend it as a genuine introduction to  Belize' Creole (Kriol) society. 

Nickie - Thanks. 'sfunny - it was poetry got me in trouble here, and in checking the books on my 'ready shelf', actually six narrow shelves next to one of my computers, I find that 22 of them are books about poetry, including the 'Oxford Companion' and Ciardi's classic 'How Does a Poem Mean', along with collections of poetry, some of which are anthologies but mostly are the collected works of individual writers. Admittedly prose, including reference works, fiction, and GoB and NGO reports, including some of my own, outnumber the poetry section by about four to one. 

One small but notable book on the shelf is the 'Belize Social Security Handbook' which saw an international distribution when first published some years ago. 'International', because copies of it were mailed out to expat Belizeans living in the U.K. and U.S. 'Notable' because it's the first complete work I ever sent to a printer  on a cd camera ready.  I've done several reports the same way since then. By keeping absolute control from writing and editing the text through to the final book design there is no chance for lower level bureaucrats to mess with the language. The 'Belize Social Security Handbook' was thus notable for being a government publication written in plain English that everyone could understand. For that I've never been forgiven.


----------



## vangoghsear (May 24, 2010)

Good to see you back.  Actually, your observations from, and comments on, other people's poetry seemed rather astute to me.  You should feel free to return to poetry.  It's okay to disagree sometimes. :wink:


----------



## ppsage (Jun 2, 2010)

The Backward OX said:


> Apropos of absolutely nothing, but wasn’t there a little story posted here once, won an LM set by a previous Manager if memory serves, and it was all about Belize? Something about Mayan lap-dancers and a scam involving a sink-hole? Or am I thinking of something else entirely?



I remember this, apropos naught. It wasn't a monster challenge was it? I don't even want to think about poetry. pp


----------



## arkayye (Mar 6, 2011)

And here, I was hankering to read more of your poems.... What to do?


----------

