# Are self-insert characters really so bad?



## Fiachra (Dec 26, 2010)

There are two conflicting pieces of advice doing the 'rounds of internet forums for the past few years:

1) Write what you know.
2) Do NOT base characters off yourself!

Does anyone else see a problem with this? The person in this word that you are the most intimately familiar with is yourself. You may be familiar with your brother/sister/mother/father/boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/best-friend-forever, whatever, but you'll never know as much about them as you know about yourself. Like it or not, you cannot get inside their brain and see how they are thinking about things. You may be able to speculate about how they are thinking, but you'll never know for sure. 

If you have the life experience to create wholly original characters, that is excellent, but for some of us less experienced folks, is it not ok to base a character off ourselves - or at least, aspects of ourselves? 

Obviously, if I were to do this properly, I'd have to be as unapologetic about my flaws as much as my strengths. If I had an overestimated idea of my own self-worth, I could very well create a Garry Stu. However, that is more a flaw on my part, than a problem with the idea itself.

Thoughts?


----------



## Baron (Dec 26, 2010)

There is a lot that's useful and helpful in reviews and critiques on internet forums.  What nobody can do is provide an instant formula for a successful novel.  All of those clichés; "show don't tell", "write what you know", etc.; have a place but they are never hard and fast rules and should never be regarded as such.  On the issue of basing an author basing a character on him/herself, there are many who have successfully done it, though frequently in a romanticised or exaggerated way.  Ernest Heminway, James Joyce, Richard Bach, Ian Flemyng, Leslie Charteris, Robert M. Pirsig, to name but a few, have all built characters in their novels and stories around their own experience and personality.


----------



## JosephB (Dec 26, 2010)

Fiachra said:


> If you have the life experience to create wholly original characters, that is excellent, but for some of us less experienced folks, is it not ok to base a character off ourselves - or at least, aspects of ourselves?



It's kind of the opposite, really. Life experience might allow you to write interesting characters based on yourself.



Fiachra said:


> Obviously, if I were to do this properly, I'd have to be as unapologetic about my flaws as much as my strengths.



I draw heavily on my own experience -- my flaws, fears and mistakes perhaps more then anything. I hope this is what makes my characters interesting and believable. People might make the connection between me and my characters -- and since I focus on the negative, it might not paint a very flattering picture. But that's OK.  It's a risk I'm willing to take.


----------



## Chronicler (Dec 26, 2010)

I agree. A story is what you make it. You can experiment with insert characters based on yourself and/or try to come up with a good combination that makes this personality different from you and in the likeness of yourself. Who knows what you're really like anyway, unless you admit to it.


----------



## Fiachra (Dec 26, 2010)

*Non-rules in Writing*

I figured it would be good to get a list together of all the non-rules in writing. Two that were already brought up in another thread of mine:

1)Write what you know.
2)Show don't tell.

If you know any more, please suggest them.


----------



## shadows (Dec 26, 2010)

I hate the  - write what you know.  If I did that I'd have nothing much to write about.  I have imagination, empathy and google.

But one non-rule I try to follow especially in flash fiction is - 

every word must earn its place

also

use active verbs not passive where possible.


----------



## Sam (Dec 26, 2010)

'Write what you know'. 

It makes little to no sense. There's no limit to what I can know, provided I do my research, so this 'rule' is an oxymoron. 

I live on a farm in the middle of a small town in Northern Ireland. Do I write about milking cows, driving tractors, and cutting silage? Like hell I do! I get enough of that during the day. I write about what I enjoy reading and watching: action films and thrillers. 

I've never been to one of the four nuclear-ready launch sites in America, but I wrote about one in my latest novel through significant research. I've never been to the White House, but I contacted several American associates and studied every available photograph and floor-plan I could get my hands on, and I used that information to write about it in my latest novel. For that reason, I scoff at the 'write what you know' malarkey.


----------



## Sync (Dec 26, 2010)

how do you not base characters off yourself? I remember seeing once never to use your own name in a fictional piece, but I think that was just in a comment or something. Still whenever I see a users name in a fictional story it bothers me. weird.

write what you know - do you mean what's universally accepted? 

i mean if in my world a serial killer picks daisies and kisses rocks when no-one is looking or that gravity pulls the inhabitants all off the planet so they use tethers and a world-wide rail system to get around, dirt falls like rain and oceans are in the skies with fish jumping cloud to cloud, well then i guess it can be like that, because this is fictional not factual. 

I just try to make it plausible, so the reader can nod their head and move on. but its hard sometimes because of these boundaries of what can and can't be done placed all around an imagination. 

interesting post

thanks for the reads

Sync


----------



## shadows (Dec 26, 2010)

It seems two threads were merged. 

I think it would be impossible not to put something of yourself in your writing.  You only have your own thoughts and experiences as a foundation.  It might be exaggerated, twisted or changed in some way but only the writer will know how much is based on real life.


----------



## Matty Lee (Dec 26, 2010)

I almost always have at least one character who has a personality very much like mine, although with very different life experiences.


----------



## KrisMunro (Dec 27, 2010)

There's some good advice in here. I'm a fan of showing, not telling. But the active vs passive sentence thing I mostly ignore, partly because I just cant seem to get my head around it. The concept is there, just not the application of it.

I'm also a fan of having character's dialogue dictate action/events. Eg, "Why are you trying to hide those chocolates?" 

I have my own quirks.. such as not using apostrophes outside of dialogue, making use of the oxford comma, liking italics to dictate private thoughts... and other mundane things (such as the triple full-stop...).

I like having characters misunderstand each other. One person will say something, and another hears them correctly, but interprets the meaning in a different way to what is intended. I find this is a great way to have characters show their personality; they hear things as they want the words to be.
Eg: "Tonight's going to be great", says Bob. "Yeh, it'll be a great party", replies Jane. "What..? I meant after the party." 
Very quickly, we see what their motivations are.

Technically, not rules.. but methods. Much like the "show don't tell". I don't think there are any hard and fast rules with writing. Only methods that are better than others in most circumstances.


----------



## S1E9A8N5 (Dec 27, 2010)

Fiachra said:


> 1)Write what you know.


It should be: *Write what you can imagine.*



			
				Shadows said:
			
		

> I hate the  - write what you know.  If I did that I'd have nothing much to write about.  I have imagination, empathy and google.


Exactly.


----------



## shadows (Dec 27, 2010)

What is an Oxford comma?


----------



## KrisMunro (Dec 27, 2010)

The oxford comma is the use of an extra comma in a list, usually to help avoid ambiguity. 

Consider this crude example:
I love my wife, a mother and a chef.
I love my wife, a mother, and a chef.

Under the 'rules', you're not meant to include a second comma. But I find that it's essential if you want people to grasp the right meaning.


----------



## shadows (Dec 27, 2010)

Thanks


----------



## KrisMunro (Dec 27, 2010)

I agree that in most cases, the 'serial comma' isn't necessary. But there are times when it is. I really depends on whether you like you 'bacon, and eggs', or 'bacon and eggs'. If the two items could otherwise be confused as one unit, then you (or perhaps just I) would add the extra comma.


----------



## Bilston Blue (Dec 27, 2010)

KrisMunro said:


> The oxford comma is the use of an extra comma in a list, usually to help avoid ambiguity.
> 
> Consider this crude example:
> I love my wife, a mother and a chef.
> ...


 
To me these two sentences having different meanings, and all because of the second comma. In the first you are loving your wife, who is a mother and a chef, and in the seond you are an amorous so and so who is loving three people. If this is the meaning I would think the second comma is essential, and so, in my humble opinion, whoever wrote the rule of not including a second comma has an average understanding of English at best. You are right, it does avoid misunderstanding.

:santa:

Scott


----------

