# Writing a book takes a lot longer than I thought.



## Sage Celestine (May 9, 2015)

When I first started writing this book I thought it would take me two months to write and I'd have it done by Valentine's Day in February. However as time went on I postponed it until March, then April, then June, and now I'm pretty sure that in order to have a truly remarkable book that I will not be done until around December, one year after I started it. It's supposed to be an 80,000-100,000 word book. But I've made pretty good progress thus far the first rough draft was 50,000 words and the second draft was 70,000 words. Now I'm rewriting it again, and I might rewrite it two more times. This is a lot harder to me than writing poetry, my poetry was short and concise, but I find myself writing more descriptively for the book.

I would like the input of fellow authors on the matter, especially ones who have written books. Thank goodness I have a job where I can write while I'm at work, because writing a book is like having a second job entirely.

Also going back and rewriting it I am now seeing just how horrible the story line is and how it was written.


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## Riis Marshall (May 9, 2015)

Hello Sage

Each of us is different but it takes me about one year to finish a thriller of 120,000 to 140,000 words (when I say 'finish' I mean it's ready to be printed off, put in a ring binder and read for typos, final tweaking, dealing with awkward phrasing, checking timelines, etc.).

So, from my point of view, you're doing just fine.

Frederick Forsyth, as an example, says it takes him three years to write a novel: the first year and a half is to complete a detailed outline.

All the best with your writing.

Warmest regards
Riis


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## bookmasta (May 9, 2015)

I've written thirteen novels. It never gets easier. Each takes its time and unless you put in more hours, don't expect much progress. Four to six months for a 60-80k manuscript is about average, if done right with beta readers, editors, and multiple revisions for a complete work. It can vary, of course, but that's my time table for most of my projects.


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## Sage Celestine (May 9, 2015)

bookmasta said:


> I've written thirteen novels. It never gets easier. Each takes its time and unless you put in more hours, don't expect much progress. Four to six months for a 60-80k manuscript is about average, if done right with beta readers, editors, and multiple revisions for a complete work. It can vary, of course, but that's my time table for most of my projects.



I need to keep my book top secret until I announce it, so I can't really have people beta reading it. How long does it take once you are completely finished with your book to get it published, assuming you were self publishing?


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## bookmasta (May 9, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> I need to keep my book top secret until I announce it, so I can't really have people beta reading it. How long does it take once you are completely finished with your book to get it published, assuming you were self publishing?



You're going to want to have beta readers. Its highly unlikely they'll do anything but read your book and give feedback, particularly if you're paying them. And like I said before, anywhere between 4-6 months not counting a break between. It could always be longer, or shorter. It varies writer to writer.


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## LOLeah (May 9, 2015)

Not being able to write anywhere close to full time, I've been realistic in my expectations. My first draft will take me at least a year. I recently saw a chart of daily word counts of very successful authors. Some as low as 500.


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## Phil Istine (May 9, 2015)

Last autumn I set myself a goal of having a first draft of my first book completed by the end of this year.  Even that is starting to look ambitious but I do full time manual work during the day so fatigue sometimes wins.
I was interested in what you said about the relative lengths of first and second drafts.  In "On Writing" by Stephen King, I recall that he expects the second draft length to be first draft MINUS about 10%.  I suppose he is only referring to how _he_ does it but he does seem to have some idea about what he's doing


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## InstituteMan (May 9, 2015)

bookmasta said:


> You're going to want to have beta readers.



What bookie said.

Also, to the topic at hand: writing is hard. Really hard. Doing it well takes both time and effort. A year sounds like a really fast clip for a work of that length to me, but everyone writes and revises at a different pace.


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## Sage Celestine (May 9, 2015)

Phil Istine said:


> Last autumn I set myself a goal of having a first draft of my first book completed by the end of this year.  Even that is starting to look ambitious but I do full time manual work during the day so fatigue sometimes wins.
> I was interested in what you said about the relative lengths of first and second drafts.  In "On Writing" by Stephen King, I recall that he expects the second draft length to be first draft MINUS about 10%.  I suppose he is only referring to how _he_ does it but he does seem to have some idea about what he's doing



My third draft is likely going to follow close to the minus 10% I'm probably going to delete entire chapters that make the storyline less fluent, I just deleted half a chapter earlier because the storyline wasn't as solid as it could be. I used to work manual jobs, as a cashier for a grocery store, any person who can find the energy to write after working those jobs has my admiration.



InstituteMan said:


> What bookie said.
> 
> Also, to the topic at hand: writing is hard. Really hard. Doing it well takes both time and effort. A year sounds like a really fast clip for a work of that length to me, but everyone writes and revises at a different pace.



Writing is hard yes, but understand that I can literally type all day long if I had the mental capacity for it. I work as a security guard and at this job I work 2% of the time, the rest is sitting inside the guard shack and taking short lot patrols, it doesn't stress me out that much to say the least and does give me a lot of free time to write. Of course I have planned all of this since I was about 16.


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## J Anfinson (May 9, 2015)

You're doing just fine.  Consider Thomas Harris, who in over 20 years has only written 5 novels. He's been rumored to be working on the sixth for years now.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (May 9, 2015)

Apologies in advance for my pretentious analogy. 

Writing is like drawing. When you first learn, you're making senseless scribbles that barely resemble a coherent form.Then you make stick men. Geometric shapes. Details. You're hand slowly gets steadier. Then drawing becomes easier and easier, and you can move on to things you never thought you would be able to depict.Time into a work will show. As time passes, you may see your own faults, and have them pointed out by others. 

But you can always erase, edit, and redraw as you please. If you don't think it's complete, it's probably not. I have one novel that I'm planning. It will very likely take me twenty years to write. Maybe longer. But it's worth it. In the meantime, I'm writing poems, a series, and short stories. And, of course, I still draw. 

Don't think of it as something negative.

All creative works take considerable time, but the end result is incredible. 

If you rush through it, you short yourself of that final, excellent pride in your creation.


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## Sage Celestine (May 9, 2015)

J Anfinson said:


> You're doing just fine. Consider Thomas Harris, who in over 20 years has only written 5 novels. He's been rumored to be working on the sixth for years now.



There are many good things I wish to do for the world anfinson, not twenty years from now not a year from now but right now. It's one of the things that inspires me to work on my book so much, is that when I do publish it and if it does become a huge hit. I will have a form of wealth to use to provide people with housing, food, and professions of their own.



Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> Apologies in advance for my pretentious analogy.
> 
> Writing is like drawing. When you first learn, you're making senseless scribbles that barely resemble a coherent form.Then you make stick men. Geometric shapes. Details. You're hand slowly gets steadier. Then drawing becomes easier and easier, and you can move on to things you never thought you would be able to depict.Time into a work will show. As time passes, you may see your own faults, and have them pointed out by others.
> 
> ...



Think for a moment if you made the discovery of a century, and yes you could announce it and get media coverage for a little while, but then what? You haven't got any sort of monetary reward for it, and you'll still be working your 9-5 job more than likely at the end of the day. But if you chose to write a book about it instead, and that every day that passed, was another day someone else could discover what you did, and take the fame for it. Leaving you high and dry. The luxury of time is something I do not have.

It was with great reservations that I postponed my date to December, but it is for the reason as you've listed, I want perfection. Something that can blow the audience away.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (May 10, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> Think for a moment if you made the discovery of a century, and yes you could announce it and get media coverage for a little while, but then what? You haven't got any sort of monetary reward for it, and you'll still be working your 9-5 job more than likely at the end of the day. But if you chose to write a book about it instead, and that every day that passed, was another day someone else could discover what you did, and take the fame for it. Leaving you high and dry. The luxury of time is something I do not have.
> 
> It was with great reservations that I postponed my date to December, but it is for the reason as you've listed, I want perfection. Something that can blow the audience away.



Nothing is original anymore, In the world of writing. But we should still try. I'm glad you've found such a discovery.  

I'd like to think my own ideas are quite unique and special as well. But If something is similar, so what? At the very least, those issues increase media coverage and lead to more sales for both pieces. But I wouldn't worry too much about it. 

No one can enter your mind and steal your exact idea, just as you imagined it. 

...Just make sure you keep the copies safe. Hahaha.


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## shadowwalker (May 10, 2015)

Sorry to rain on your parade here, Sage, but if you only knew how many times 'veterans' of writing forums have heard this "my idea is so wonderful/unique/perfect/great that I have to be _Super Secret_ and rush through to get it published _first_ so I can get all this fame and/or fortune" - damn near every new writer thinks that. Believe me, the majority of betas don't need or want some other writer's ideas - they have more than enough of their own. Forget the paranoia and the visions of grandeur and just work to make your book as well-written as you can, however long it takes to get there.


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## Kyle R (May 10, 2015)

Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> Nothing is original anymore, In the world of writing.


The day I believe that to be true will be the day I stop writing (and reading, as well). :grief:

Fortunately, I won't ever believe that to be true.


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## RhythmOvPain (May 10, 2015)

I once wrote 40,000 words in roughly three months, which was epic. Conversely, I will leave a book alone for just as long (if not longer) if i have something more interesting to do.


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## J Anfinson (May 10, 2015)

Kyle R said:


> The day I believe that to be true will be the day I stop writing (and reading, as well). :grief:
> 
> Fortunately, I won't ever believe that to be true.



I think it's true at its core. But since there's endless ways to twist those basic elements we don't need to worry about stealing ideas.


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## Sage Celestine (May 10, 2015)

RhythmOvPain said:


> I once wrote 40,000 words in roughly three months, which was epic. Conversely, I will leave a book alone for just as long (if not longer) if i have something more interesting to do.



I used to have problems with just getting my story started much less 40,000 words into it  good job!



shadowwalker said:


> Sorry to rain on your parade here, Sage, but if you only knew how many times 'veterans' of writing forums have heard this "my idea is so wonderful/unique/perfect/great that I have to be _Super Secret_ and rush through to get it published _first_ so I can get all this fame and/or fortune" - damn near every new writer thinks that. Believe me, the majority of betas don't need or want some other writer's ideas - they have more than enough of their own. Forget the paranoia and the visions of grandeur and just work to make your book as well-written as you can, however long it takes to get there.



After being in a drought for most of my childhood, rain is much appreciated. I'm not afraid of someone taking my idea my idea is safe because it is such a well guarded secret by me, however that someone else might discover what I have, does worry me, because this discovery could be made by a 10 year old child. Which is why I am so surprised no one else has discovered it yet.


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## Sam (May 10, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> Which is why I am so surprised no one else has discovered it yet.



They have, and they've probably already written about it. You just don't know it yet. 

My  advice would be to stop worrying about someone stealing your ideas  (never happens; at least, in twenty years of writing, I've never heard  of it happening) and concentrate on making the book the best it can be. If that means seeking beta readers, so be it. 

They're not going to steal your work. I promise.


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## shadowwalker (May 10, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> After being in a draught for most of my childhood, rain is much appreciated. I'm not afraid of someone taking my idea my idea is safe because it is such a well guarded secret by me, however that someone else might discover what I have, does worry me, because this discovery could be made by a 10 year old child. Which is why I am so surprised no one else has discovered it yet.



See, statements like these are what I'm talking about. Chances are this 'discovery' has, indeed, already been made, and implemented in some variation, with some degree of success or failure - you just haven't found out yet. Without some form of outside editor, how can you be sure your writing will even do this idea justice? And let's face it - once the book is published, there's no guarantee that someone won't come along, make some improvement to the idea, and _they'll_ be the ones who get the accolades. 

I've just seen this kind of thinking too many times, both in and outside of writing. It rarely works out to the thinker's benefit.


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## Sage Celestine (May 10, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> See, statements like these are what I'm talking about. Chances are this 'discovery' has, indeed, already been made, and implemented in some variation, with some degree of success or failure - you just haven't found out yet. Without some form of outside editor, how can you be sure your writing will even do this idea justice? And let's face it - once the book is published, there's no guarantee that someone won't come along, make some improvement to the idea, and _they'll_ be the ones who get the accolades.
> 
> I've just seen this kind of thinking too many times, both in and outside of writing. It rarely works out to the thinker's benefit.



Well aren't you a debbie downer?



Sam said:


> They have, and they've probably already written about it. You just don't know it yet.
> 
> My advice would be to stop worrying about someone stealing your ideas (never happens; at least, in twenty years of writing, I've never heard of it happening) and concentrate on making the book the best it can be. If that means seeking beta readers, so be it.
> 
> They're not going to steal your work. I promise.



I'll consider the beta reader part.


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## shadowwalker (May 11, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> Well aren't you a debbie downer?



No idea what that is, but I am a realist.


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## Gavrushka (May 11, 2015)

Sage Celestine, I think it is important to realise that great swathes of us come here, interact with other writers for a first time and think there is something different about us to everyone else. - We feel we know a secret that they don't. We feel we've reached the promised land with an earth-shattering idea that no one else has come up with. - A few years ago, I was so sure that I was working on a unique literary masterpiece that I was scanning property websites for a new home with swimming pool and moat... I can still remember the moment when reality hit me... 

It was cathartic.

Someone read my words, a well-meaning stranger, who's now a senior mentor on this website. They pointed out something I'd not appreciated beforehand. - I was crap. Now, that was my watershed moment when I caught a glimpse of the rocky, winding path in front of me that led to a distant peak labelled success. - I'd thought myself already there up until that point. - I paused for less than a second before starting my hike, this time aided by more experienced walkers. - Since that moment, I've written and discarded several million words across several novels, and listened to the most harsh of criticism, ignoring those who'd praise me. - You've that same option now. - Grasp hold of a walking stick called tenacity and begin your trek. - I've no doubt that you'll catch up with where you think you are if you are prepared to work at it, but the simple truth is too many writers simply aren't prepared for how long an apprenticeship they must serve.

I'll say something, your words unread, that you need to hear. - You _have_ to hear. - Right now, you're a substandard writer. - And there's one more thing you should understand... - Let them, and the people on this site will show you how to be something far more.  

Well, what you waiting for? Do you want to get better, or just feel you already are?


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## voltigeur (May 11, 2015)

Ok a bit of support. I also don’t post my full concept on an open forum. No other reason than at a gut level it seems like a bad idea. 

That being said: I have probably not gotten advice on this forum because my reluctance to do so screwed up discussions I started. I take full responsibility for that. (That and posting in the wee hours of the morning.)  

However I agree with every poster telling you not to try and go this alone. I have met so many writers mostly young and mostly writing some type of fantasy that has the “most original genius story line of all time.” Funny it seems to be the same idea across most of them. 

Also statement “I’m different you don’t understand.” What I understand is they are all different in exactly the same way. Hum?

I would listen to Shadowwalker, Kyle and Sam. Sometimes straight forward and blunt, but advice that is good and with the best of intentions. 

So even if you don’t reveal you WIP to an open forum, it is good advice to engage others in your writing process. I have taken my lumps because I _thought_ I knew what I was doing, and realized quickly I didn’t have a clue. 

Beta readers have been my salvation. Both from a technical subject matter expertise, and writing technique. I would still be groping through he fog and ready to give up if I tried to keep this close to my chest and go it alone.


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## Greimour (May 11, 2015)

OK: How long does it take me...

Let's see: As a just write experiment, I pumped out 13 chapters in under a month consisting of 92-110k words (forget exactly). As far as plot and such goes, I should have done better. Especially considering I was posting online for the world to see. I gave it up after a month but I had 500 followers and my chapters had 3-5k views each. In short, I had readers that wanted me to continue the story. The rating of the story by the readers was 4.74/5 ...

I may not have liked it but the readers did. I felt I owed the readers though so at their request I returned and continued writing it. I write 10k words, proof it, make edits if required and post it all on the same day. I do work though so I don't always have time to sit down and write. Still, since the 14th of April, I have put out 10 chapters that add to around 90k words. That's 1 chapter per 3 days. As I wrote each chapter in a day, it breaks down to roughly 9k words a day, but if you include the days I can't write for work and life reasons, it is still 3k words per day.

Different strokes for different folks. If I were to attempt to write it better with as much perfection as my lacking skills can achieve—I'd be much slower. Probably.


P.S: I don't know what your amazing invention is, but if its an idea for a story and not an actual invention of some kind, you aren't going to have it stolen by a Beta reader >.>


P.P.S: The site traffic where I post my story isn't really that high, so I am actually impressed with my progress for work I consider to be below my ability. Even though I only have 882 followers right now, that's just how many of the people reading it bothered to click the 'follow button' ... Who actually clicks 'follow' on stuff? I almost never do. The traffic on a newly posted chapter is around 2k views within 24 hours so I guess that's a better indication of followers.

Thought I would mention the followers to show that I am not just throwing out 10k words of complete crap >.<

Ultimately it's this: You asked how long it takes other people to write their stories.

Completed stories depend on factors such as length. Including the time I didnt write at all due to life (1month) I have posted 200k words or more for my readers to devour within the past 3 months.


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## Gavrushka (May 11, 2015)

Greimour said:


> Especially considering I was posting online for the world to see. I gave it up after a month but I had 500 followers and my chapters had 3-5k views each. In short, I had readers that wanted me to continue the story. The rating of the story by the readers was 4.74/5 ...



Gah, that brought back an unwholesome memory. - Before writingforums, I was a member of a site called 'Booksie' and had something similar happen with an armada of likes and positive ratings. It's where my delusions of grandeur started. It is so much easier to accept a pat on the back than a punch in the gut (and I do believe I've received a spiked knee in the balls from you in the past, for which I can now thank you).

For the foreseeable future, the best opinions to listen to, I feel, are those of literary agents and ill-tempered WF members!


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## Gamer_2k4 (May 12, 2015)

I've been working on my novel since about 2008, I believe; the first draft was completed early 2012, and I'm currently going through the third draft.  For someone without a true passion for the art, like me, it can take a while.  That said, I much prefer to go at my own pace rather than on a schedule.  I don't mind that it's been seven years, because I've been making consistent progress through all seven.

Go at the pace at which you're most productive.  As long as you're making progress, that's all you need.


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## Lydia14 (May 12, 2015)

I know the feeling of things taking a while -- three years and I'm still in planning to make sure timelines are good and plot holes are closed. That's what happens when you're planning a series spanning 1000 years!


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## BryanJ62 (May 12, 2015)

*Everybody has a different system. This latest one took me almost a year but I'm not complaining. Sometimes things take a while especially if you want your work to be good.*


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## Sage Celestine (May 13, 2015)

Greimour said:


> P.S: I don't know what your amazing invention is, but if its an idea for a story and not an actual invention of some kind, you aren't going to have it stolen by a Beta reader >.>



A discovery not an invention, and it is of such magnanimity that a certain degree of discretion would be advised until I can write a proper story. I fear I would kill a legend otherwise, and so my hope is simply to supplant the traditional story with another one that would do the legend justice.


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## Gamer_2k4 (May 13, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> A discovery not an invention, and it is of such magnanimity that a certain degree of discretion would be advised until I can write a proper story. I fear I would kill a legend otherwise, and so my hope is simply to supplant the traditional story with another one that would do the legend justice.



All that is textbook "new writer" talk.  No one's going to take your idea, because they've all got ideas of their own that they feel just as strongly about.  Furthermore, your work is never going to be perfect, so the sooner you get started on your "legend," the better you'll be.  Stories are made through writing and rewriting and lots of work, not from flashes of genius.

Also, "magnanimity" doesn't mean what you think.  Never use a longer word when a shorter one will do, particularly when you're not sure of the definition of that longer word.


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## Tettsuo (May 13, 2015)

When you guys talk about finishing a book, are you talking about "ready to publish" finished?

It takes me a year just to finish the rough draft and about 4 to 6 months to do the editing, the cover, the typesetting, etc.


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## Sage Celestine (May 13, 2015)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> All that is textbook "new writer" talk.  No one's going to take your idea, because they've all got ideas of their own that they feel just as strongly about.  Furthermore, your work is never going to be perfect, so the sooner you get started on your "legend," the better you'll be.  Stories are made through writing and rewriting and lots of work, not from flashes of genius.
> 
> Also, "magnanimity" doesn't mean what you think.  Never use a longer word when a shorter one will do, particularly when you're not sure of the definition of that longer word.



No I think magnanimity could be used to accurately describe it, in more than one way, it is both noble and lofty. Even if it is not though,  you should not presume to judge that one should write on the internet as they should for a novel. I only wish I could be so casual when writing my book, perhaps that will be a development for later on in the story, it is quite difficult to be so casual when you are pulling words and plot from the aether.

I think if you knew the nature of my discovery you would be less inclined to assume so much about it, or me, and I have already started on my book, started about five months ago and I like to believe that I am halfway finished. Everything you are saying is like  Nails on a chalkboard

To say that a story is made merely through writing and lots of editing and not at all with 'flashes of genius' is to judge the entirety of the writing community. For when someone perhaps late at night after a long hard days work sits down at their desk to write his book when an idea for the storyline pops into his head he just might say aloud to himself rather than anyone in particular. "Brilliant!" Or a 'flash of genius' may even be the inspiration for which the story was founded from. Granted is most of writing a book like this? No but that is not to say that there are not moments for it. For a story involves just as much insanity as it does genius to make it. Nothing will ever trouble me more than whether I should do a wolf or a bear for a particular scene in my story. A wolf or a bear... wolf or a bear... my mind says bear 'it is the most logical option everything would fit perfectly', but my heart says wolf 'the relative of the household canines for which people are most attached, they would be more able to sympathize with a wolf than a bear."



Tettsuo said:


> When you guys talk about finishing a book, are you talking about "ready to publish" finished?
> 
> It takes me a year just to finish the rough draft and about 4 to 6 months to do the editing, the cover, the typesetting, etc.



In my opinion a book is not finished until it is ready to publish .


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (May 13, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> In my opinion a book is not finished until it is ready to publish .






Sage Celestine said:


> Also going back and rewriting it I am now seeing just how horrible the story line is and how it was written.



Well there you have it.  The initial idea and inspiration is important, as is writing something down to begin with. But writing is 90% editing, and without it, all the books in the world, no matter the quality of the idea of thoughts, would be useless, illegible garbage. 




Sage Celestine said:


> No I think magnanimity could be used to accurately describe it, in more than one way, it is both noble and lofty. Even if it is not though,  you should not presume to judge that one should write on the internet as they should for a novel. I only wish I could be so casual when writing my book, perhaps that will be a development for later on in the story, it is quite difficult to be so casual when you are pulling words and plot from the aether.



We're not talking about writing on the internet, but about you, and your novel, and the writing process. 

His warning, as well as Shadowwalker's, seems to be lost to you. How many writers have said the exact same thing? An epic epiphany that they hold in such high regard and jealously hide from anyone else, as if it was fine gold...

And no judging or presuming occurs here. We give our advice as equals, as writers. Advice that you asked for.

I really do wish you the best. It would be incredible to know someone who was successful and wrote an amazing novel. Then I could say, "HEY, I know that guy! Sweet!"

Our points are, A, spend enough time on it, B, don't worry too much about it. Take it or leave it, we're not here to debate your idea itself, only help you write it.


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## The Green Shield (May 13, 2015)

Sam said:


> They have, and they've probably already written about it. You just don't know it yet.
> 
> My  advice would be to stop worrying about someone stealing your ideas  (never happens; at least, in twenty years of writing, I've never heard  of it happening) and concentrate on making the book the best it can be. If that means seeking beta readers, so be it.
> 
> They're not going to steal your work. I promise.



*chuckles* If only I'd seen this advice 11 years ago, would've saved me a lot of heartache and angst especially when I talked about my characters and shared my excerpts across various writing sites.  I've finally gotten over that decade-long hurdle and started writing those stories again and concentrating on making them the best they can be. 

Since I just started out last week, I've not yet gotten a system down but I suppose if I were to estimate, I seem to do well with 300+ words a day on all three stories.


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## Sage Celestine (May 13, 2015)

Crowley K. Jarvis said:


> Well there you have it.  The initial idea and inspiration is important, as is writing something down to begin with. But writing is 90% editing, and without it, all the books in the world, no matter the quality of the idea of thoughts, would be useless, illegible garbage.



I can remember the days when I would start the first chapter of one of my books, then stop halfway through and rewrite it then repeat the process, I never got anything done like that. That's why I decided to just trudge through the 'horribleness' of it all until I had the rough draft completed, now I can go back and write the second draft, third draft etc.






> We're not talking about writing on the internet, but about you, and your novel, and the writing process.
> 
> His warning, as well as Shadowwalker's, seems to be lost to you. How many writers have said the exact same thing? An epic epiphany that they hold in such high regard and jealously hide from anyone else, as if it was fine gold...
> 
> ...



There is a reason their advice has been lost to me, because it does not apply to me. When Celestia embraces you tenderly and whispers softly in your ear, unfurling her secrets to you, you do well to listen.

If you want to help me write my story, bear or wolf?


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## InstituteMan (May 13, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> There is a reason their advice has been lost to me, because it does not apply to me. When Celestia embraces you tenderly and whispers softly in your ear, unfurling her secrets to you, you do well to listen.



Duly noted. Good luck.


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## Sam (May 14, 2015)

> A discovery not an invention, and it is of such magnanimity that a  certain degree of discretion would be advised until I can write a proper  story. I fear I would kill a legend otherwise, and so my hope is simply  to supplant the traditional story with another one that would do the  legend justice.



You would be best served coming away from this belief as soon as possible. 

Basically, you're saying your idea is so wonderfully unique and legendary that you cannot share it with us mere mortals. I've heard it hundreds of times and I've yet to see anyone actually back it up. Ever. 

Ralph Ellison thought he had the most unique and amazing story with _The Invisible Man, _but Dostoyevsky beat him to the punch by almost one hundred years with _Notes From Underground. _

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Just trying to make you realise something important.


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## Gavrushka (May 14, 2015)

I've a feeling the OP may have a very harsh reality to face, and it won't get any easier for delaying. - From experience, I know that self-proclamation of my worth was followed by a legendary fall into a huge greasy tub of reality. It's wasn't easy finding out I was crap when I thought myself a man-god of the literary world. 

Still, when you finally do find out where you stand, you can start trudging up the foothills that surround the peak you thought you'd already scaled.


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## Sage Celestine (May 14, 2015)

Sam said:


> You would be best served coming away from this belief as soon as possible.
> 
> Basically, you're saying your idea is so wonderfully unique and legendary that you cannot share it with us mere mortals. I've heard it hundreds of times and I've yet to see anyone actually back it up. Ever.
> 
> ...





Gavrushka said:


> I've a feeling the OP may have a very harsh reality to face, and it won't get any easier for delaying. - From experience, I know that self-proclamation of my worth was followed by a legendary fall into a huge greasy tub of reality. It's wasn't easy finding out I was crap when I thought myself a man-god of the literary world.
> 
> Still, when you finally do find out where you stand, you can start trudging up the foothills that surround the peak you thought you'd already scaled.



There seems to be a large misunderstanding here. You guys seem to think I am worried about my story. No not so much, I have literally made a discovery, on the scale of finding the tomb of King 'Tut', or the people who found the remains of those Conquistadors in the mountains of Colorado. I am choosing to write a book about it instead of going straightforward to the public with the discovery, a move which I believe will profit me more, this book naturally takes precedence over my other books that I had been working on at the time of the discovery.


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## Gavrushka (May 14, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> ...I have literally made a discovery, on the scale of finding the tomb of King 'Tut', or the people who found the remains of those Conquistadors in the mountains of Colorado.



I am going to be brutal and blunt.

You haven't.

The day will come when you discover this, and I hope you realise there were a fair few people offering up their time to hold a safety net for you to cushion the impact.

I want to be wrong, but I'd say that was about as likely as finding out King Arthur was a transvestite alien, and the Holy Grail was one of his discarded fishnets.


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## Phil Istine (May 15, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> There seems to be a large misunderstanding here. You guys seem to think I am worried about my story. No not so much, I have literally made a discovery, on the scale of finding the tomb of King 'Tut', or the people who found the remains of those Conquistadors in the mountains of Colorado. I am choosing to write a book about it instead of going straightforward to the public with the discovery, a move which I believe will profit me more, this book naturally takes precedence over my other books that I had been working on at the time of the discovery.



I genuinely hope that you do very well with your project.
Although very inexperienced, I do see that you will at least need another pair of eyes to assist with editing.
"Magnanimity" and "based off of..." are just two items that I noticed at a brief glance - the latter being repeated so presumably not an editing quirk.  I'm barely a novice so I imagine that someone with more experience could find more.
I do realise that forum posts are generally edited with less diligence than a finished work, but I can't help wondering if your assertions about the nature of your book are merely marketing spiel.
There's a lot of help on offer here.  I intend to avail myself of it once I have something worth bringing to the table.
Even if your idea has been used before, I sincerely hope that your particular version of it brings you the things that you desire.

EDIT:  On further inspection, I realise that "based off of..." was used by you in another thread rather than this one.


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## Sage Celestine (May 15, 2015)

Phil Istine said:


> I genuinely hope that you do very well with your project.
> Although very inexperienced, I do see that you will at least need another pair of eyes to assist with editing.
> "Magnanimity" and "based off of..." are just two items that I noticed at a brief glance - the latter being repeated so presumably not an editing quirk.  I'm barely a novice so I imagine that someone with more experience could find more.
> I do realise that forum posts are generally edited with less diligence than a finished work, but I can't help wondering if your assertions about the nature of your book are merely marketing spiel.
> ...



Well of course I plan to hire an editor, but you should never presume that someone writes a book like they write on a forum.



Gavrushka said:


> I am going to be brutal and blunt.
> 
> You haven't.
> 
> ...



So brutal. I'm just going to let you talk to my agent on how brutal that was. The only way it could become brutal for me is if someone found out about my discovery and announced it before I did, which I am hoping does not happen.

I do appreciate your help, but really you have got the wrong idea entirely. You seem to think that I am stereotypical of new writers, yet forgot entirely that I had been working on stories long before this, mainly in poetry. Which I've mentioned. My other stories I had a lot more heart in, because they were 'mine' but I am forced to write within the borders of the natural confines of my discovery. I worry about my story, I worry if it will be good, if I can make it something people would want to read. But my discovery I worry about differently than my story, I worry of someone else finding out about it. It's like finding a vast amount of Gold in the Black Hills but not making a claim on it, someone, anyone could walk up and make the claim and rob you of your discovery. I lie in wait simply because I want to use the discovery to promote my story, a form of self-advertisement if you will.


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## Gavrushka (May 15, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> So brutal. I'm just going to let you talk to my agent on how brutal that was. The only way it could become brutal for me is if someone found out about my discovery and announced it before I did, which I am hoping does not happen.



I want to be wrong, and I promise there'll be nothing but elation from me, Sam and everyone else on here if you do succeed. Your decision to come on here to claim you know something so earth-shattering that it compares to some of the greatest discoveries of our time could be considered self-aggrandizement, and that rarely goes down well. Praise sounds far sweeter than self-praise, you see.

Keep us posted, after the event, and don't feel you can't be open if it doesn't go quite as planned. - You'll not be mocked or belittled, but will receive the kind of help and support that many of us have needed at some point on our literary journeys.


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## Terry D (May 15, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> I need to keep my book top secret until I announce it, so I can't really have people beta reading it. How long does it take once you are completely finished with your book to get it published, assuming you were self publishing?



You can have your completed book self-published in an afternoon.


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## Kyle R (May 15, 2015)

It's great to have a stellar idea or an exciting discovery. But ideas are nothing without execution. 

It's not what's in your head that matters—it's what you do with it. :encouragement:


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## cinderblock (May 15, 2015)

Do you guys count the days you don't write? For example, I could only write every other day, due to my job. But when I do write, I write all day, interspersed with reading, eating, napping.

I started writing multiple drafts of random stories from last March and throwing them out, because I kept getting better ideas every week. Eventually, I started something on September, and I wrote twice a week. And then, when it was almost complete, I abandoned it all together, because it was too complicated. 

Started a brand new story around January 7 or 10, a derivative of the previous story, and so far, I'm around 55,000 words, and I believe I'm done. I'm currently editing. It may not be that much, considering how much time I've spent laboring on it, but my writing is pretty intense. There is zero time-wasting, (no long drawn out passages of describing nature, character cooking food, doing household chores, ruminations of what the author thinks of music and books a la Murakami) and every page is pivotal to understanding the plot.


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## Grape Juice Vampire (May 16, 2015)

I thought it would take me less time too, but life and my own fear of finishing has slowed me down. As such I've been working on this for years longer than I had planned, though I have found that to be the best thing. Happily, I am only six chapters and a few revisions away from completion (finally!) I hope this first experience will help me speed up the next book just a bit.


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## Nicholas McConnaughay (May 16, 2015)

*Blind Salvation*: 
- I started at around September 2011 and finished at about July 2012 with the first and second draft. I didn't publish the book officially until 2015 though, after I did a third and fourth draft.

*The Aeonian: Book One*
- I started right after Blind Salvation, so like August 2012 and I finished almost exactly a year later than that with the first draft. Still haven't done a second draft or published it. In-fact, I have been cannibalizing it for a while now and will probably rewrite the whole thing. I wrote the first 20k of another book during this time too.

*The Red Flux: Part One*
- I started writing it in May 2014, but stopped writing it for a long time, I only had the first fifteen thousand words done, and I started doing it again mid-March. I am now 51k words into it and I'll soon be wrapping up. 


I guess I have a habit of taking about 7-10 months with each of my books, including the drafts, but I also write something in-between each. I would like to train myself to be able to publish a book every six months or so, but we'll see.


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## dale (May 16, 2015)

it takes me what seems like forever to write sometimes. i can write only when the muse or "inspiration" hits. i'll write
2000 words in a couple hours and then write nothing at all for weeks. i do envy the writers who can just "write on demand".


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## Sage Celestine (May 16, 2015)

dale said:


> it takes me what seems like forever to write sometimes. i can write only when the muse or "inspiration" hits. i'll write
> 2000 words in a couple hours and then write nothing at all for weeks. i do envy the writers who can just "write on demand".



I used to be like that, would only write when I was inspired to write, but sometimes writing is like crossing a dried up river bed that still muddy. You're going to have to wade through a lot of mud to get to the other side.


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## J Anfinson (May 16, 2015)

dale said:


> it takes me what seems like forever to write sometimes. i can write only when the muse or "inspiration" hits. i'll write
> 2000 words in a couple hours and then write nothing at all for weeks. i do envy the writers who can just "write on demand".



I can write on demand... it just turns out crap so it feels pointless.


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## Sage Celestine (May 16, 2015)

J Anfinson said:


> I can write on demand... it just turns out crap so it feels pointless.



Do you think the first computer was as advanced as computers are today?


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## shadowwalker (May 16, 2015)

If I waited for inspiration I'd rarely write. Most of the time, just starting to write creates its own "inspiration".


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## J Anfinson (May 16, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> Do you think the first computer was as advanced as computers are today?



No, but it was sure innovative for its time.



shadowwalker said:


> If I waited for inspiration I'd rarely write. Most of the time, just starting to write creates its own "inspiration".



Sometimes it does for me. You never know until you try.


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## voltigeur (May 16, 2015)

One of the things that has helped me is to separate writing from creating. 

When creating new material try writing for 10 min. (You may want to try freehand.) just write even if it is the worst crap ever put on screen or paper.  Don’t edit don’t think don’t worry about quality just write. Do this every day! 

My girlfriend’s writing professor made a statement that the act of writing happens during the revision. (i.e.  word choice, composition, word flow, punctuation etc.) 

The logic is that creating new writing is a right brain function, editing is a left brain function.  When many of us write we are self editing as we go. So the right brain is constantly being interrupted.  

I’ve been working this way for a month and I now after re-writes and edits on old scenes, I always stay about 3 new scenes ahead.  Before I started doing this I wrote every day but in truth I was creating new scenes maybe once a month and editing the rest of the time. 

When I would get close to meeting with my critique group (meets once a month) I found my self hustling to get new material ready. Now I’m a week out: The scenes are ready and I’m already editing what I will have reviewed next month and I have 5 scenes waiting for the second read. 

It has greatly helped my forward progress, and I am finally filling holes.


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## Gavrushka (May 17, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> If I waited for inspiration I'd rarely write. Most of the time, just starting to write creates its own "inspiration".



One of the things that makes me shudder when I read many of the how-to threads on here, is that I feel they complicate something that is ludicrously simple. - You just need to write, and write every damned day. - I don't know if it is a symptom of my old age, or part of the desire to get rich quick with as little effort as possible, but so many seem to be looking for shortcuts nowadays.

For five years, since I left a world of property development behind, I've crawled out of bed before the sun threatens the horizon, and written for several hours. - It'll be different for others, but it took the first four and a bit years of that time to expunge all the crap I had inside me, so the slightly more valuable words could surface . Perhaps there are routes other than hard work to complete a book; I wouldn't know, as grafting is the route I chose.

I know not everyone writes for the same reason, and I think I'd forgotten why I did until a couple of days ago. (I've spent the last 18 months rewriting several novels I'd written in my misshapen days of yore.) - Three days ago, I started on a brand new creative project by 'just writing'... I had no idea what I was writing, or where it was leading, but it felt incredible. - No lists, plans, outlines, techniques or coming on here to ask for solutions, just me, my imagination and writing desk. I don't need anything else, and I wonder if others make it more complicated than it really needs to be. (That's not to say we shouldn't ask for help - God knows I've done it enough times but perhaps, just perhaps, the solution is often a lot simpler than we think.)


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## shadowwalker (May 17, 2015)

Gavrushka said:


> I wonder if others make it more complicated than it really needs to be.



Many - if not most - new(er) writers make things immensely more complicated than necessary - and typically because they're trying to find some "formula" for writing. It can be extremely intimidating and then freeing to realize that they can quit worrying about the how and just tell the story.


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## Mesafalcon (May 20, 2015)

I can relate to this. I have been writing a novel for the past 2 years now. I thought once I had the story fleshed out, I would edit out the mistakes and bang! done!

Not really. 

Now I am endlessly editting and cutting words since it ended up way too long...

11-29-14 / *317,*406 words

2-2-15 / *308*,610 words

3-5-15 / *297*,392 words

3-23-15/*276*,616 words

4-16-15/*261*,025 words 

5-18-15/*234,*274 words 

That's were I am at. I have had two complete strangers give it a full read and 2 critique partners are about 3/4s finished. I would guess I have another 6 months to go before I consider it finished... problem is, you improve as a writer faster than projects get done, so you constantly go back and patch up things...

dale - nice Lennon qoute by the way


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## Tettsuo (May 21, 2015)

Mesafalcon said:


> I can relate to this. I have been writing a novel for the past 2 years now. I thought once I had the story fleshed out, I would edit out the mistakes and bang! done!
> 
> Not really.
> 
> ...


Friendly advice - If this is going to be your only novel, edit away and keep going back and fixing until your happy with it.  If you plan on writing more novels, don't keep editing.  At some point, you'll have to let this novel go.  Set your number of edits, and let it go.


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## Gamer_2k4 (May 21, 2015)

Mesafalcon said:


> Now I am endlessly editting and cutting words since it ended up way too long...
> 
> 11-29-14 / *317,*406 words
> 
> ...



Impressive.  I've knocked mine down from 195K to about 120K (more on the way), so I can definitely respect the effort involved in editing of that magnitude.


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## TJ Shortt (May 26, 2015)

I can crank out the words, but it doesn't mean they are worth publishing. I once wrote a 120k novel in less than 6 months while working full-time and planning my circus wedding. Having said that, that book will probably never see the light of day. As much as I loved the experience of writing it, it's just not good. Beta reader's feedback helped me to see that and no, I don't take every comment to heart.
Other stories have taken much longer and are now actually "finished" (written, rewritten, edited x a few times, beta reader edited, professionally edited and published or ready to be published). I would say years for the "finished" ones.

Best of luck with your book on your discovery. Sounds intriguing.


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## cinderblock (May 27, 2015)

Mesafalcon said:


> I can relate to this. I have been writing a novel for the past 2 years now. I thought once I had the story fleshed out, I would edit out the mistakes and bang! done!
> 
> Not really.
> 
> ...



I can totally agree with your sentiments. I edit as I write, so when I finish, the book is already in its third or fourth draft. I feel like I have a very strong filter, and everytime I edit it more, I feel like I've finally gotten it to where I'm satisfied. Come back a month later, and I'm aghast that whatever the heck I'm looking at, was supposed to be the third, fourth draft. Like, I was actually satisfied with this? lulz

I'm also editing heavily at the moment, and it's been extremely exhausting. My story is only around 55K words, so it's nothing as epic as yours, but geezus, I'm all over the place.


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## John Oberon (May 27, 2015)

317K words? Sheesh. I would've made two books of that. At 234K, you still could.


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## scrub puller (Jun 8, 2015)

Yair . . . 

I'm new around here and I started a thread on this subject . . . sorry bout that, should have posted here.

Cheers.


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## denmark423 (Jun 10, 2015)

It is truly longer. Especially if you are enjoying writing it and forgot to end.


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## Jared77 (Jun 27, 2015)

Sage Celestine said:


> There seems to be a large misunderstanding here. You guys seem to think I am worried about my story. No not so much, I have literally made a discovery, on the scale of finding the tomb of King 'Tut', or the people who found the remains of those Conquistadors in the mountains of Colorado. I am choosing to write a book about it instead of going straightforward to the public with the discovery, a move which I believe will profit me more, this book naturally takes precedence over my other books that I had been working on at the time of the discovery.



Wait a sec...It sounds like you're saying you've made an actual _archaeological _discovery, and you're writing a book about that.  Is that it?  Or are you just using a metaphor for your amazingly brilliant story idea?  If it's archaeological, shouldn't that be vetted in a scientific journal or something first?  Was it the ancient city of gold? (That's already been made into a couple movies, btw)


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## Transcender (Jun 27, 2015)

Jared77 said:


> Wait a sec...It sounds like you're saying you've made an actual _archaeological _discovery, and you're writing a book about that.  Is that it?  Or are you just using a metaphor for your amazingly brilliant story idea?  If it's archaeological, shouldn't that be vetted in a scientific journal or something first?  Was it the ancient city of gold? (That's already been made into a couple movies, btw)



That's what I thought. But I noticed he said, 'legend' in one post. So it's possible he's come across some old piece of lore or tradition. However, another time he references 'pulling words from the Aether', leaving us with a lot of contradicting ideas.


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## bazz cargo (Jun 29, 2015)

I suspect some of this is working at a cross purpose. 

Hi Sage,
great name BTW.

I think you have a idea I call a Brownism, something like Jesus having a kid. If so, I can understand why you would wish to keep it secret. 

As with all skills, writing gets better with experience, I am quite sanguine that my first novel is going to be crap. Hopefully they will get better as I go along.

Self publishing is fine as along as you are willing to put a lot of work in on marketing, the traditional publishing method has longer odds than winning the lottery.

A note about ideas: I had a corker. Imagine a world where time is money, three weeks into planning my novel a movie with the exact same premise arrived in our local multiplex. Now I'm planning a novel about premonitions.

Good luck
Bazz


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## Snowflake (Jun 29, 2015)

bazz cargo said:


> I suspect some of this is working at a cross purpose.
> 
> A note about ideas: I had a corker. Imagine a world where time is money, three weeks into planning my novel a movie with the exact same premise arrived in our local multiplex. Now I'm planning a novel about premonitions.
> 
> ...



Ohhh, premonitions!  I'll buy that!

My situation: Last month, I went on a writing rampage and wrote about 25,000 words of my novel in a matter of weeks.  It's based on reality without too many changes, so it was easy... the story practically flew onto my computer screen.  The remainder of the story will be mostly fiction, so now I'm struggling (REALLY struggling) to write two pages a day (while editing the first part).  So, am I normal? 

P.S. This is my first novel.


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## Snowflake (Jun 29, 2015)

bazz cargo said:


> I suspect some of this is working at a cross purpose.
> 
> Self publishing is fine as along as you are willing to put a lot of work in on marketing, *the traditional publishing method has longer odds than winning the lottery.*
> 
> Bazz





Oh, please say it isn't so!   Publishing a novel has the same odds as winning the lottery?  Is the subject matter of the novel relevant at all?  Still the same odds?? 
  Is there an icon for showing someone being hit with a massive bout of misery?


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## J Anfinson (Jun 30, 2015)

Snowflake said:


> Oh, please say it isn't so!   Publishing a novel has the same odds as winning the lottery?  Is the subject matter of the novel relevant at all?  Still the same odds??
> Is there an icon for showing someone being hit with a massive bout of misery?



Imagine how many manuscripts each publisher has on their desk at any given moment. They can only publish a handful, and they're looking for any reason to toss most of that pile in the garbage can. Yours has to outshine all the others. That's the kind of odds you're dealing with. Basically it is like winning the lottery, except you have to earn it. That's not to say luck doesn't play a part, though. Every agent or publisher will have different tastes and skills at selling different things so it's also important to research the best place to send your work to.


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## Snowflake (Jun 30, 2015)

Thanks, J., your comment was very much appreciated.  

I hadn't thought of researching various publishing houses, but it's a good idea and makes sense!

Snow


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## Terry D (Jun 30, 2015)

Bazz is absolutely right about the odds of getting published. There is one huge difference, though, and it is one which should encourage any writer serious about getting published. That difference is that you can't do anything to improve your odds with a lottery, you can with your writing. Better writing has a better chance of getting noticed, and a professional presentation (query, format, etc.) helps your piece stand out amid the dross. Hard work and constant improvement help improve your chances.


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## Loulou (Jun 30, 2015)

Hi Sage,

An idea/discovery - no matter how great/new/fantastic - does not necessarily make a great/interesting/publishable book.  The writing will do that.  And you'll need readers, trust me.  I'd just get on with the writing/editing.  Talking of time taken to write novels, each of my my four took between four and six months, but that didn't include numerous edits.  And it was only my fourth book that got me a book deal.  I've been writing them since 2008, and editing over and over and over.  And listening to the advice of readers.  And reworking at the advice of editors.  And then editing again and again.  Grandiosity tends to alienate readers, so just write your work and make it good.


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## miasma (Jun 30, 2015)

As I can not start my own posts yet.   I am still curious, closely associated with this thread.  How many folks get a long way through writing a book, then decide to stop and write a long complicated Outline?   When is it reasonable to pay a Beta Reader?   How much?  How to determine who is not qualified enough to be paid?


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## Terry D (Jun 30, 2015)

miasma said:


> As I can not start my own posts yet.   I am still curious, closely associated with this thread.  How many folks get a long way through writing a book, then decide to stop and write a long complicated Outline?   When is it reasonable to pay a Beta Reader?   How much?  How to determine who is not qualified enough to be paid?



I'd say do the outline when you feel the need. There is no 'right' way to write your book, only the best way for you.

I don't see any need to pay a beta reader. All you need to do is find folks who's opinion you trust and listen to what they have to say. There is a forum here called the Beta Readers Collective where you might be able to find a beta and to become one for another writer. Check it out.


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## Kyle R (Jun 30, 2015)

Snowflake said:


> Oh, please say it isn't so!   Publishing a novel has the same odds as winning the lottery?  Is the subject matter of the novel relevant at all?  Still the same odds??
> Is there an icon for showing someone being hit with a massive bout of misery?



Well, it's not _exactly_ like a lottery. A lottery is pure chance. That would imply that talented writers and terrible writers are viewed equally, and agents simply pluck submissions randomly to choose which to represent—which is not the case.

Better writers with better manuscripts have a higher chance of finding representation than poor writers with poor manuscripts. It's quality and marketability that matters most. 

The odds move in your favor the more you educate yourself about what agents and publishers look for (in other words, the more you learn to write the kind of stories that readers want to buy). :encouragement:


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## Smith (Jun 30, 2015)

If you're afraid of your beta readers stealing your 'discovery', black out all the locations and names of people.

Your story will look like a CIA secret document when you're done, but at least you'll know whether or not your writing sucks. I don't care how many books you've written; there is always the possibility that this time your book sucked. Beta readers help out with that.

Hey, here's another thought. Write a book and leave clues all over the world about finding this... 'discovery' of yours. Sort of like those Nicholas Cage movies. Anyway, whoever figures it out first gets the 'discovery' as their reward, and you still make a bleep ton of money. Or, mislead everyone on purpose and then write more books and pull people along, so you make money for years to come and still have the 'discovery' to yourself. Now that's good marketing.

However, I still don't know if what you found is archaeological or not.


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## Meteli (Jun 30, 2015)

It is possible to win publishing lottery with shock value alone! 
First you need the right publisher, the kind that does put books on the market for shock value. When going this route, the manuscript need not be good, actually people moaning about its shortcomings might just give it free advertising space, because they would still mention what it is about, and people would get drawn in. Maybe better to leave something to the critical minds to tear into then? (I know my english is mangled so... "oh the irony". Might be better if I was just playing to write in a weird way, but no! This is because I come from totally different linquistic tree.) The subject matter could be a reveal of something or other (or sex), there usually still needs to be research and also some cogency and realism there (unless it is sex), but none of it need to be really solid. Many people are not too critical, and then there are those that are critical but read impossible claims for laughs or to prove them wrong in their blog or other social media they have access to. Subject could be something people really want to believe in, maybe the story fortifies existing assumptions, or it promises great things to come if you take the tip, or warns about impending doom that seems realistic. 

Here is doom; 
Maybe core of Tellus cooling down. If Mars is what it is now because it has cooled down, why is our Earths core still pushing up Volcanoes? Could it be the moon tide is underground as well and stirs things up? Some scientist think Moon used to be closer to Earth and is in progress to move further away. Will that have effect at some point, what will those effects be, can the core be affected? What would the symptoms be of Earths cooling core? The process is so slow, that Sun might reach its expanding state before that. So it is not a very good doom scenario, sorry. My stories are also more on the unbelievable fantasy front, or if I write mundane things, it is often farce (or tries to be, I should maybe cultivate my mean streak more), and I cannot really help it, that is just how they develope in my mind.

For the subject matter, I am a slow writer, and I do not get too many great ideas, and if I get ideas I am not good expanding or exploring them, so if I am at the moment in a mind that I should think hard what I should write about, so I'd not waste time on projects that can never work. Which leads to the situation of me not writing. I should know better, and actually I do.


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## denmark423 (Jul 1, 2015)

That is a normal thing to experience especially to a first-time writer or author. Just don't stop if you really love to write a book. Study writing and learn things about it that would help you.


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## Snowflake (Jul 1, 2015)

Meteli said:


> It is possible to win publishing lottery with shock value alone!





Good answer. I'm only quoting part of your answer (above). Two questions:   

1) Can you give some examples of "shock value"? 

2) Do you mean the entire book is shocking?  just certain segments?  the ending?  

Thanks!


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## Smith (Jul 2, 2015)

Snowflake said:


> Good answer. I'm only quoting part of your answer (above). Two questions:
> 
> 1) Can you give some examples of "shock value"?
> 
> ...



I don't think Meteli meant shock value literally (as in, having a surprising twist and / or ending). It's more like writing a book so stereotypically bad that it sells.

Or, on the other hand, a book that is groundbreaking.

When you hear shock value, think "50 Shades of Grey".


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