# Do you prefer writing an outline or letting the story tell itself?



## Zero Hour (Nov 6, 2019)

Perhaps the one thing that I've had the most dramatically different experience is when I've writing using written outlines opposed to letting the story tell itself.

Story Tells Itself:

One thing I noticed about this style of writing is that the story is far more surprising. I'll have a general idea of what will happen but as I don't restrict it, it shoots every direction. Thus how I went from wanting to do a fantasy trilogy to finishing book 4 and realizing I need at least two more books to finish it. Helping me understand GRRM.

Written Outline:

In this same fantasy series, I decided to do my fourth book with an outline. Not only a general outline but also chapter outlines.

I noticed that I got a lot more done at a far faster pace. I also ended up having a far larger book. It was as if with the mental work of plottibg was done on a chapter before hand, it allowed me to spend that energy strictly on developing the scenes.

One chapter had only five bullet points. I thought it would only take 10 pages. To my shock, it up being near 45 pages of work over a three day period!

Which is your preferred method of writing? With an outline or letting the story tell itself?


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## taprater (Nov 7, 2019)

For my novels I like to make an outline so that I have a clearer path for the char's and story, as well as the direction for getting from one set piece to another. But for my shorts I tend to fly a little more off the seat of my pants with just enough of a mental outline to know where I'm going and how. I think of it like a gps, for a novel I'm trying to get to a house, so it's more specific, for a short, I just need to get to the right street or block.


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## J.T. Chris (Nov 7, 2019)

I used to vehemently be opposed to outlining, believing that writing was a process of discovery and therefore the story should be allowed to tell itself. This was youthful arrogance. Naivety.

Since returning to writing after 5 years, I've found the process to be incredibly difficult and my first drafts look more like outlines than fleshed-out narratives. So, I am a reluctant outliner, but an outliner now nonetheless. I've come to the realization that when the words elude you, it's important to put whichever ones you can catch onto the page.


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## Rojack79 (Nov 7, 2019)

Currently working on an outline for the first in a series of stories. It's been great so far despite all of the rewriting I've had to do to the outline itself. This is actually my first time using an outline for any of my writing. My other projects I just ran with whatever popped into my head. Ended up with 100,000 words fanfiction that I'm still not done with. So really I think it depends on the project at hand and how comfortable you are with writing the story in the best way to tell the story.


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## Ma'am (Nov 7, 2019)

This question comes up a lot and I always wonder if this either/or dichotomy even exists, in practice. I can't imagine writing fiction to a strict outline because fiction unfolds as it progresses, with many of the discoveries not yet known before the story has been started.

On the other hand, even if I don't write it out, I do have ideas in my mind before and during the writing, about where a story is headed or some points to hit along the way. I'm not sure how you could aim for or achieve a coherent story with a beginning, middle and end with nothing planned in advance, even if in your mind. That seems to me some measure of outlining.

So, my answer is always "both." 

Strict outlining seems to me more fitting for nonfiction, and I do use them for that.


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## sigmadog (Nov 7, 2019)

As someone who is trying to write his first large story (perhaps it'll be a novel one day or just something to be found and wondered over after I croak), an outline seems a logical way to proceed, if only to get the intricacies of the plot sorted out.

I'm trying not to consider the outline as something that is cast in stone, never to be altered. I want to remain flexible enough so if some amazing new idea occurs that could take the story in a new direction I won't discard it without at least looking at the possibilities. An outline is a nifty and low-impact way to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of new plot ideas.

For me, having a general structure or blueprint to follow helps keep me on track. That said, re-writing an outline seems a lot easier than re-writing a half written story. It also allows me to evaluate any new directions with as little wasted time as possible.

That's this amateur's perspective. YMMV.


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## Cavex (Nov 7, 2019)

I need to write an outline otherwise my story won't happen. I do keep it very detail light.


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## Theglasshouse (Nov 7, 2019)

As so someone who has tried everything and read many books on how to write. I am now embracing outline approches that I can find. I dislike wasting my money on craft books with theory and enjoy doing writing exercises. So instead I am researching ways to outline. Of course this could change. But I feel as if I am picking up the last batch of books this week with theory. I want a whole view to how to write something. I struggle since I dont like my ideas. I like drama as much as the next person who will enjoy a good story. I have tried freewriting and it hasn't worked in a long time. That's how my last story was written. I also had a writing friend. If anyone has time to have a writing friend let me know. I just feel that I could exchange a story with another member on the story. Motivation is key. But so far, need to do some research as to what to write next. I want to write something using conventions of the genre. For it to have emotion but I keep failing at that. I do freewrite and analyze the work for interpretation. I think what I am going to do is look at some old stories and see if I see a metaphor where another story could exist. Maybe something I never developed because of not thinking it through.


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## Ralph Rotten (Nov 7, 2019)

Most of my books are fairly complex, so they usually have some type of outline. How I outline varies from book to book, depending on the story. Sometimes I just keep a 2B written list at the bottom of the document. Othertimes I have a full document for an outline.


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## Sir-KP (Nov 7, 2019)

It's like one way path for me.

Outline granted will be made when I imagine a story that I like. The realization however may not be as cool as I imagined and so from then on, the story grows out of its outline.


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## ironpony (Nov 7, 2019)

I would say it's a combination of both.  I start out with an outline, and then as I write it, the story starts to reveal itself, but I needed an outline to get there, as oppose to starting from scratch.  I feel the story would probably pretty random if you do that.


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## Zero Hour (Nov 8, 2019)

ironpony said:


> I would say it's a combination of both.  I start out with an outline, and then as I write it, the story starts to reveal itself, but I needed an outline to get there, as oppose to starting from scratch.  I feel the story would probably pretty random if you do that.



I myself will do maybe 3 chapter outlines but not many more. The way that my writing goes, I'll end up doing changes even midchapter so by doing less chapters, I feel it does give more of flexibility to work with as the story progresses.


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## Newman (Nov 8, 2019)

Outlines. 

Journey, change, theme, arc, craft etc... these are not things of chance.


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## K.S. Crooks (Nov 9, 2019)

I make outlines for my novels before I begin writing them and continue to update them as I write. My outlines have a lot of information about all main characters (appearance, personality, strengths and weaknesses, etc) and secondary characters, the names of all other needed figures, major plot points per chapter, reason for characters to do what they do, what growth I want the characters to have by the end of the novel.
I too like to outline my story and character development on a overall and chapter by chapter basis. I plan one to two main events that will occur in each chapter, but I come up with the random details and events as I write. For instance a chapters main event could be travelling from one city to another (outlined), but along the way they encounter bandits pillaging a family farm (not outlined). How many bandits, the number of family members, how the bandits are stopped, does anyone die, are all spur of the moment decisions. I think of outlining as the meat and potatoes of the story and everything you write that's unplanned as the spice.


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## ironpony (Nov 11, 2019)

In the screenplay I am getting feedback on now, one of the critiques is that I have come up with my ending first, and then worked my way backwards to build into it.  But I thought this is what you had to do, to get to the ending you want, and I read that's how it is done in a screenwriting book.  But I am told by readers, that by doing that, I put the cart before the horse, and I must write it a lot more from the beginning, then I decide the ending.  So if that's true, perhaps letting the story reveal itself is the way to go?


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## luckyscars (Nov 11, 2019)

ironpony said:


> In the screenplay I am getting feedback on now, one of the critiques is that I have come up with my ending first, and then worked my way backwards to build into it.  But I thought this is what you had to do, to get to the ending you want, and I read that's how it is done in a screenwriting book.  But I am told by readers, that by doing that, I put the cart before the horse, and I must write it a lot more from the beginning, then I decide the ending.  So if that's true, perhaps letting the story reveal itself is the way to go?



A lot of stories are written with the ending established first. Plenty of websites and blogs actually advocate doing exactly that. Personally, I usually have 'some idea' how I want my stories to end, even if it isn't totally fixed.

Some books and movies even literally begin either in or near the ending with the story told in a kind of flashback - 'in media res'.


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## ironpony (Nov 11, 2019)

Yeah, I guess the trick is to make it so it doesn't seem so totally fixed, to the reader.


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## Annoying kid (Nov 11, 2019)

[video=youtube;BmK6ETRzYyI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmK6ETRzYyI[/video]


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## Ralph Rotten (Nov 11, 2019)

Zero Hour said:


> Perhaps the one thing that I've had the most dramatically different experience is when I've writing using written outlines opposed to letting the story tell itself.
> 
> Story Tells Itself:
> 
> ...





What you are talking about here is really *Pantsing *versus *Plotting*, and it is one of the most common questions in writing forums.

*Pantsing*, or writing by the seat of your pants, is closer to stream of consciousness writing. You just sit down with a general idea and start writing. The upside is that it is a very free way to write. The downside is that you risk painting yourself into a corner.

*Plotting *means sitting down and writing an outline, or maybe a timeline, or even a scene-by-scene outline. The upside to this is that you are rarely stumped for what to do in your next scene. The downside is that the project often dies in the plotting stage (you simply get bored, or get so wrapped up in the planning that you never actually pull the trigger.)

Personally I believe that an experienced writer should be comfortable with either method. Really it is the book that determines if it needs to be pantsed or plotted.

But here are some of the crazy things that I have had to do when plotting a book.
1) Scene by scene outline. I'd write a paragraph for each scene, stating what was to happen, and the minimum goals of that scene (what HAD to be accomplished in that scene.)
2) Lots of times I just write a line or two about scenes I want in the book (in addition to the outline in my head.) I put these at the bottom of the document and as I write each, I remove them from the list.
3) Complete chronological timeline. This was something I had to do for a series of books that occupied the same span of time. In order for them to mesh, I had to use timelines from each book to create a master for the next book.
Here is one of those timelines:






4) Spreadsheet: Essentially I had a brief detail of scenes, and another spreadsheet for characters, and another for research. The downside to this is that I got good at records keeping, but got little writing done. The outline overtook the project.


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## ironpony (Nov 11, 2019)

I found that with pansing I paint myself into corners more often, but also I feel that the theme can get long, if you don't know what direction to take it in as a result, of not knowing the ending in advance.


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## EthanWarwright (Nov 19, 2019)

I'm still fairly new to writing myself, so take my word as you will XD. With that said, I don't normally write out outlines for stories. Instead, I'll usually keep the general concept of what I want to do in my head and maybe scribble down some notes about general character and plot details. I do this mainly to ensure I don't create plot holes and such. I also may write down a really good idea I have for a story to make sure I don't forget it.


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## ironpony (Nov 20, 2019)

I use to think it was good to plan the ending far in advance and build into it.  But lately I'm starting to think maybe that's not the right way of doing things, and maybe it's best to let your characters take you to a more inevitable ending.


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## EthanWarwright (Nov 21, 2019)

I don't typically write a step-by-step outline. If I do write anything of the sort, it's usually just a rough series of notes about character details and basic plot elements I want to employ. Sometimes major elements of my stories don't spring to mind until I'm already well into the writing process. I can specifically recall the ending of the largest story I've done so far being largely constructed at the very end after a lot of deliberation as to how I wanted to execute it. At the very least, I like to come in knowing what kind of premise I want and how I want the ending to generally play out.


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## sunaynaprasad (Nov 23, 2019)

I write outlines with chapter by chapter summaries. I can't write without planning.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

One thing about planning an ending far in advance, does anyone have trouble doing this for every character? Let's say you wanted your protagonist and antagonist to learn lessons in the end, and you have the perfect ending that will put them both in their place.  But that ending does not work for the other supporting characters, if you want the subplot characters to have any revelations of their own.  Do you keep the ending you have then, cause it's the best one you can come up with for your protagonist and antagonist, or do you keep trying till you've satisfied your supporting characters as well?


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## Princesisto (Nov 23, 2019)

Pantser today! Pantser yesterday! Pantser forever!

I have never written an outline which was not bowled over and left in the dust by my characters' will, giving me a far-better story. 

If you truly understand the characters' character to the point where you know with certainty how they react to each set of facts and dialogue, they will create the story: you just record it with your verbal techniques and the order in which you choose to tell it.

After all, it's their story, isn't it? Who the hell are you, God?

Of course, in truth, what we are writing and the characters themselves come ultimately from our own brains as writers. I am not pretending otherwise. But a correctly-developed character has its own set of assumptions, motivations, experiences and personality traits and writing them should be a process of logical deduction from those (noting that one personality trait of a character can be "illogical", so then you have to deduce from motivations, not logically). I have seen many stories where the author has tried to stuff a character into a predetermined outline and what does it look like? Stuffed up! 

"No, the character wouldn't do that!" said the reader, throwing the book into the fireplace on a cold winter night. 

But a reader can only make that statement if that reader truly understands the character's assumptions, motivations, . . ., etc. And a reader can only do that if they are a good reader and you are a good writer. So, if you are good enough to get them to that point, don't crash them by messing with their heads.

So, liberate your characters and let them tell their stories! You'll get a lot of backstory that has to be cut out later (my major problem using this approach) but you will get a really good story after that surgery. 

MHO


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## ironpony (Nov 24, 2019)

Princesisto said:


> Pantser today! Pantser yesterday! Pantser forever!
> 
> I have never written an outline which was not bowled over and left in the dust by my characters' will, giving me a far-better story.
> 
> ...



But what about the themes of the story though?  I feel if you pants the whole the story, the themes can get lost cause you don't know how to carry them through then, if you don't know which direction the plot is going to go.  Then it feels too realistic like a story you hear on the news.  Ever read a true story and say to yourself, "well that was interesting, but the characters did not explore the themes to the full advantage", cause it was a true story, and the creator of it, did not know what was going to happen, theme wise?


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## Princesisto (Nov 25, 2019)

Of course, the themes, your messages, are always in your mind. If you see a chance, you're going to put something in the story that is relevant to them.

I guess what I am saying is you can't succeed by just forcing the story to wrap around your themes. You have to look for places where the theme is relevant and you have to test the themes against your characters and their situation. You have to say, "I really want to say something about X: now which character would pick that up here?" And sometimes no character would. So then this is not the story for that theme. We often see stories where authors have forced their themes in and made characters do or say things to fit the theme: it usually doesn't work and looks fake.

Hope that helps.


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## ironpony (Nov 25, 2019)

Yep, that makes sense.  Do you know of any stories where the author forced themes on that didn't work?


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## Zander Willmore (Nov 26, 2019)

I always do outline.  I started just writing each part or chapter as it came to me and I kept getting lost and didnt really know how to fix it.  Then I read a book called how to write a bestseller by Ken Follet.  I read a couple of his books and really liked them so I thought I would give it a try.  It had a whole chapter on doing outlines and I found it very helpful. Since then I always do outlines.  For a novel or short story and it has really helped.


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## CyberWar (Nov 26, 2019)

Generally I just like to go with the flow and let the story unfold on its own. A drawback to such writing style is, at least for me, the risk of getting stuck whenever I run short of ideas.


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## Alanzie (Nov 30, 2019)

I guess I kind of wish I could use an outline.  I think it would be easier.  In a way I do, but only mentally.  I have a rough idea based on pivotal scenes.  I then have to write a transitional chapter or two leading up to each of those major scenes.  I have no idea what those transitional scenes will be and quite often, they introduce new characters and help my core cast become more complex.  They also alter and define the pivotal scenes so by the time I get to them, I think they're pretty damn good.
     I just hit 25K words and the first six chapters of my first book, a historical horror tale.  There's no way I could have done that using an outline.


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## Theglasshouse (Mar 5, 2020)

I think it can vary. I know a lot about a short story I plotted using a word document. So I decided to outline the story in Microsoft Word. I thought up of a plot from watching a YouTube video and random incidents or events I had in a notebook sort of like a journal (the opening or the inciting incident I jotted down in word). Now I am outlining a skeleton of the plot of every scene in the short story.

So I set down a list of five plot-germs, or plot ideas. So I made a plot- skeleton; a plot-scenario; and a plot-synopsis. I think I have ideas for several scenes down but have not written the story itself yet. If I feel its complete I will write the first draft which I will use to polish it for revision. I still have to do other things.

One thing is I noticed if you outline like in my case you can connect how one event seems to cause another so that it is not episodic. I think people say my plotting was episodic and some writers suffer from that. This is my first time outlining something such as a short story this way.

I have not attempted a novel but a plot skeleton is based on a structure I think many people use. This might be based on the heroes journey.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Mar 5, 2020)

My first novel was so structured that I could (and did) write the chapters out of order as the mood hit me.  I had notes, diagrams, sketches, timelines, character profiles, and all the rest.  It was important and useful, but it also resulted in a massive 200K word story as I tried to include everything in my notes.  In revising for the second draft, I did a "reverse outline," where I took each chapter and meticulously mapped it out to determine what was important to keep and what could be cut, as well as identifying and streamlining overall plotting and themes.  Now it's at a much slimmer 95K words and (hopefully) close to being done.

With my second/current novel, I didn't even know the ending at first; only the characters and the general theme.  As I've written more, I've begun to discover those things, and now I have a plan/summary for each major set piece, as well as bullet points for 1-3 chapters out.  But there's no true outline for the story, and I don't mind a more freeform approach.  I spend less time planning and more time writing, and that's fine by me.


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## hvysmker (Mar 5, 2020)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> With my second/current novel, I didn't even know the ending at first; only the characters and the general theme.  As I've written more, I've begun to discover those things, and now I have a plan/summary for each major set piece, as well as bullet points for 1-3 chapters out.  But there's no true outline for the story, and I don't mind a more freeform approach.  I spend less time planning and more time writing, and that's fine by me.



I feel the same. Start with a MC and a setting, add a problem, and turn them loose. If their actions entertain you, you've got your story. If it keeps flowing, you have a novel. let it age a few months, edit it, and it's ready for five or six more edits.


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## Journalismist (Mar 7, 2020)

I always like general outlines to my stories, with only hazy details.

For example: The protagonist (Who lives in a tech dominated society) becomes a bouncer. Later on, they save the person who is building the mechanical heart they desire. 

But the in between information is left completely blank. I think the benefit of this is that I know what I'm getting to, but it's up to my creativity to explore what's actually happening in the story. 

And then, I revise and revise until it makes the most sense.


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## Bayview (Mar 7, 2020)

I agree with those saying that this is a false dichotomy: it's not a binary question, not a choice of either sticking to an outline or "letting the story write itself".

I rarely outline, and when I do, I almost always abandon the outline after a few chapters, but that doesn't mean I'm not in control of the story. It doesn't mean the story is writing itself. I write, I find interesting directions in which the story might travel, and _I choose the one that that I think is best_. I write another scene, or even just another few paragraphs, and I make another choice. Writing without an outline doesn't mean the story isn't thought-through, it just means the thinking doesn't happen all at once.


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## luckyscars (Mar 8, 2020)

I agree it's not a binary. After some years of writing, I honestly don't know 'which' I am and I don't care. 

- Often when I write entirely without an outline, I find myself getting hung-up on some plot-point or other, perhaps not even realizing the massive hole until I go back and start to read. That pisses me off.

- Often when I write adhering to an outline, I'll quickly realize the outline is inefficient. What sounds good in a clipped-summary can fall apart on the page, and vice versa, requiring more work than it's worth. 



> _Martin wakes up on the alien planet and meets Corina, a small Erak being who introduces him to Zmoot, the Erak King. Zmoot offers him three wishes..._



^ This kind of thing doesn't help me very much. Because it doesn't address what is always the biggest puzzle of the piece which is not, generally, what happens but how it happens and what effect it has on the character, which invariably changes what happens next. I don't know these things reliably before I start. I don't honestly believe very many people do. It seems to me it would take an awful lot of very, very good (and very, very detailed) outlining to really figure out every small piece of a story. And then we get into the territory of whether it might just be easier writing a draft and seeing what happens.

If you DON'T figure out every small piece, if you leave it to the organic flow of the work, that's obviously fine, but I would question -- be curious -- as to how you can stick to that outline religiously in such a case? It just seems that to write according to an outline with little or no real deviation requires a hell of a lot of discipline. And who wants to be disciplined THAT much? *Brings out whips and leather catsuit*

But in all seriousness, I do outline, some. I do not outline short stories, I think that's pointless -- if I can't keep what happens in a couple thousand words in my head straight, I'm checking into the dementia clinic tomorrow. But longer pieces, pieces where I'm not sure how I'll get from beginning to end in a consistent arc that matches up with an acceptable word count and beginning-middle-end... I like the idea of having _some _plan. If nothing else, I like the process of putting it together. I like the way it makes me think about the story from a distance, more objectively, more strategically. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I think probably most (though hardly all) writers do that. The only question to me seems to be whether that kind of thinking should be written down or not. I do write it down, but there's no reason others should.

My current novel I consider a hybrid because I did outline certain chapters loosely, and others I did not. As I progressed to the end and generally got comfortable with the story, I dispensed with the outline entirely with no hard feelings and no discomfort. 

I think a lot of time people like the idea of an outline because they like the idea of feeling in control of their work and outlining gives a kind of simulation of the story that provides the confidence that they aren't about to pour hours into something that 'just isn't going to work'. 

To that extent, outlining is a good idea. It allows a quick, easy way to write the story without actually having to write the story. It's sort of like riding a bicycle with training wheels. There's nothing bad about that. A bicycle with training wheels can be ridden just as far as one without, after all. Whether it's as enjoyable a process, whether it's slow, whether it doesn't unleash the full potential of the machine, is all a valid thing to speculate on. But it still works, and it's better than falling off. 

I think people need to not overthink this stuff.


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## Kyle R (Mar 9, 2020)

I tend vary, depending on my mood. I don't believe any particular method is superior, despite what some writers might say.

We tend to excel at whatever we do the most. So, whether you pants a lot, or plot a lot, or do something in between—you're going to get proficient at it, eventually, no matter what it is. :encouragement:


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## Sam (Mar 9, 2020)

Every single thread (no, I mean that quite literally) that I've had the [dis]pleasure to read on this subject espouses the idea that pantsing may, in some form or at some stage, result in painting oneself into a corner. 

I don't know where this notion comes from. I often think, am I going to wake up tomorrow and forget the sequence of events necessary for me to wake up; shit, shower, and shave; eat; and then leave for work? Because that's what a story is: a contiguous sequence of events separated by stages, i.e. chapters. 

Pantsing doesn't change what a story is. There's still a beginning, middle, and end. The only way to paint oneself into a corner is by removing one of those three. 

Sometimes outlining is lauded as this panacea for writing problems when it isn't. 

Both processes are useful. Both processes should be tested. Neither is 'correct'.


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## RWK (Mar 9, 2020)

I plot out the beginning, and go for it. If the novel stalls (which is common), I put it with all the others, and work on another.

I will not claim this is an efficient method, but it works for me. Each writer must find their own path to the ever-elusive conclusion of the story.


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## Kopely (Mar 10, 2020)

Does any one have any thoughts or feedback on how how writing different content deserves a different process? (example- blogging v science fiction v non-fiction)


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## JJBuchholz (Mar 10, 2020)

My outlines (which are necessary, in my case) contain basic information (setting, plot, characters, points) that help to get me started on the story as a whole. I think of an outlines as my way of jotting down a rough idea of what the story should be. I usually add points and change a few things as I go. I guess you can call my outlines rough idea sheets as well. 

-JJB


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## Fiender (Mar 11, 2020)

I find the more I outline, the less enthused I am about actually writing the story. But... when I try to write without any outline or background work, I just end up staring at a blank page. I've settled on doing some prep work about the characters, and the world if it's not set on Earth, then creating a handful of goalposts to move the story along. That way, as I'm "pantsing", I know where the story is going. Roughly.

And those goalposts are never set in stone. With my 2019 Nano project, I had about 30 or so goalposts, and by post #5, I started diverging. While the plot was _mostly _the same, quite a few things ended up happening in different orders than originally planned, and a few things didn't end up happening at all. 2018 Nano only had 10 goal posts, and while they all happened in the "correct" order, a good fifty percent of that book ended up happening between posts 3 and 4.

All this to say, when I hear different methods of outlining, I often think "well, that won't work for me". And when I hear of some of the tricks pantsers use... it's the same thing. :-"


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## ironpony (Mar 22, 2020)

Well I was thinking of doing the fly by the seat of your pants approach with no outline and just let the characters tell the story and see where it goes.  However, how do you prevent the characters from contradicting the theme though with no outline to keep the theme from being contradicted?


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## bazz cargo (Mar 22, 2020)

Crime fiction is an exception. This has to be rigidly stuck to an outline. 

I do outline but it never survives long. Better ideas are always coming along.


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## ironpony (Mar 22, 2020)

Yeah that's true, genre depends on it as well perhaps.

Like for example in The Godfather, 

SPOILER

did the writer know that Michael Corleone was going to go from honest citizen, to evil crime boss, or did he choose to let the character tell the story, and this just happened completely unexpectedly, and the writer ran with it?


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## Nicholas McConnaughay (Mar 22, 2020)

I don't know any more what is best. I used to have such strong opinions one way or the other, and now, I am not entirely certain. I have never committed myself to thorough outlines, but I always have a general idea of what I want to accomplish. I have a Point A, a Point J, and a Point Z, but I don't always have the rest of the alphabet figured out and I find them in my progression through the writing process. I don't think an outline would benefit me in-terms of structural integrity, per se, but I do intend to do so with later novels, because my ongoing series' have so many different moving parts that I will need the extra help to keep everything straight in my head.


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## hvysmker (Mar 22, 2020)

I don't think it is possible to paint yourself into a corner and be able to step out. You can always back up and rewrite.

It might require changing the attributes of a character or a scene, but is always possible.  Let your characters know that you are the boss.


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## RWK (Mar 22, 2020)

ironpony said:


> Yeah that's true, genre depends on it as well perhaps.
> 
> Like for example in The Godfather,
> 
> ...



Puzo works from a detailed outline, and generally bases his books on historical groups and events.

In the case of The Godfather, he based it upon his personal knowledge and experiences, plus detailed research.

He's the screenwriter's screenwriter.


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## becwriter (Mar 23, 2020)

I am a seat-of-the-pants writer because I feel that giving my characters free rein better allows them to drive the plot as opposed to making them comply to plot elements that are already mapped out. I can see some value to an outline as long as it's not too restrictive...


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## ironpony (Mar 26, 2020)

That's fascinating.  When you let them fly by their seat of their pants how do you keep them from contradicting the themes of the story, if there is no outline?


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## indianroads (Mar 26, 2020)

When you walk out your front door, do you know where you're going? If it's a long trip, or a complicated route do you use a map or plan your route?


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## Amy-rose (Mar 28, 2020)

So far I have written very little to have a preferred method. But I found when I just wrote short-stories in the past it was fun to see where the story went but it was usually an inconsistent mess by the end and required some serious editing and re-thinking. I realized my first draft was my plan. My second draft was the story itself. So I guess I'm both a planner and a panster. My planning is just very elaborate. I decided to down grade to traditional planning, bullet point and characters charts, then tended to find the characters on the page were nothing like those on the charts. 

I have no method yet as I haven't written enough consistently to find what works for me.


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## Deleted member 64364 (Mar 28, 2020)

If I'm writing a big story or one that will have a strong theme to it, I prefer to write an outline first so that I don't forget anything and so that I take a step back to make sure everything makes since. I'm kinda a control freak when it comes to my writing; I want each sentence to fit and work with everything else. (Also, I'm a bit of a perfectionist so I'm paranoid that I'll make a mistake that will destroy my beautiful story like a house of cards.) With short stories I'm willing to let it unfold as it goes since they're easier to edit.


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## Tyrisalthan (Apr 5, 2020)

I used to think myself as a gardner when I wrote short stories, school assignments etc, but as I started to write my own novel I find myself to plan all kinds of things way before they ever become part of the story.


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## JosephSC (Apr 7, 2020)

Personally, I just let the story tell itself. If I have a good idea of how the story will progress, I'll outline it until I can't think of the next event. After that, I just write according to the outline until I reach that last event. Then I just let the story tell itself. Most of the time though I just let the story do it's own thing and let it flow.


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## Theglasshouse (Apr 7, 2020)

It's varying with me again. I did a lot of outlining for a separate project. While the other is a draft that I free wrote slowly with a plot twist. It's slowly being written.

Not to mention I rewrote the telling parts into showing which then made the story evolve. I am wondering if I work harder and rewrite whether that main character should be a very interesting secondary character in the writing process as my story keeps evolving.


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