# Helpful Hint, how to remove red wine stains



## Firemajic (Nov 20, 2019)

I sleep on the couch
having not yet mastered the solitude
of the bedroom gloom
where cobwebbed memories cling in corners
avoid the king size bed sackcloth shrouded 
and the closet 
empty of everything except
abandoned hangers dangling askew 
as abstract as question marks
 to my unanswered questions

I leave the light off
it makes the claret stains less visible
on the once pristine wall


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## TL Murphy (Nov 21, 2019)

I love the conclusion... just leave the light off.

The first stanza has some great metaphors but sadly, many are explained by telling words or phrases:

“memories” is telling.  It explains the cobwebs.
”shroud” explains the sackcloth image
”everything” is not needed
”abandoned” explains the poem and the dangling hangers.
”askew” is redundant
”unanswered question” explains the question marks.


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## Firemajic (Nov 21, 2019)

Dammmmit... you are right... again... I felt strong reservations about some of the lines you pointed out... I need to learn to trust that the reader is smart enough to make the leap from point A to B... I will re-work this... see, I really am learning from you, it's just not showing...yet...


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## Ditchweed242 (Nov 21, 2019)

Love the imagery in this one. 
Loneliness and self doubt wrapped up in a room I won't go into.

I love it when a poem lets me see pictures.


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## TL Murphy (Nov 22, 2019)

Trust the images even if you don’t trust the reader. The metaphors are the real poem.


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## andrewclunn (Nov 22, 2019)

Something weird happens at "avoid"... the poem seems to change from first person descriptive to second person prescriptive.


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## Firemajic (Nov 22, 2019)

TL Murphy said:


> Trust the images even if you don’t trust the reader. The metaphors are the real poem.



I have been trying abstract watercolor painting.... I start out ok... the composition, color.... but right there, at the end, I start doubting myself, sooo, I go back and start adding detail, and what I end up with is nothing but a mess... I have not learned the art of restraint... but I am working on it...


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## Firemajic (Nov 22, 2019)

andrewclunn said:


> Something weird happens at "avoid"... the poem seems to change from first person descriptive to second person prescriptive.




I agree... completely... I was trying to avoid using the word "I"....because it is obvious, in the opening line that I avoid the bed, because I already said "I sleep on the couch".... I need to rework that line, I probably do not need it, but I like the imagery...


lol... look at all the "I's" I just used in this post....


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## Thomas Norman (Nov 22, 2019)

Fire, this is a good poem of fear, loss and loneliness.I like the internal rhyme at L3. I do think their are too many words; especially of explanation, in S1. Cut it right down to bare fact to match S2, which is spot on, a succinct and mighty ending.


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## Firemajic (Nov 22, 2019)

Thomas Norman said:


> Fire, this is a good poem of fear, loss and loneliness.I like the internal rhyme at L3. I do think their are too many words; especially of explanation, in S1. Cut it right down to bare fact to match S2, which is spot on, a succinct and mighty ending.




Thank you Thomas ... I appreciate your thoughtful comments, I am working on this and will post it later ...


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## Firemajic (Nov 22, 2019)

Firemajic said:


> I sleep on the couch
> having not yet mastered the solitude
> of the bedroom gloom
> where cobwebbed memories cling in corners
> ...




****Revised...Helpful Hint, How to Remove Red Wine Stains

I sleep on the couch
having not yet mastered the solitude
of the bedroom gloom
where cobwebs cling in corners
above the shrouded bed
and the closet empty of everything
except dangling hangers as abstract
as question marks

I leave the light off...


I am not sure if this has enough information....  I was thinking that the red wine stains on the walls look like a Warhol painting.... but that would mean adding another stanza and moving the end line...


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## Ditchweed242 (Nov 22, 2019)

I think that you answered your own question.
Something that you wanted to say is missing.

What would the missing stanza be?
What picture are you trying to paint?
How do you add that without changing the whole picture?

This opinion is as much for me as it is you. Lol
Isn't poetry wonderful? 

Cheers


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## Firemajic (Nov 22, 2019)

Ditchweed, yes, poetry IS wonderful... ... but TL gave me some good advice, and I am trying to move away form telling too much and showing more... but not... too much...


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## Thomas Norman (Nov 23, 2019)

Fire I think your revision is much better, you are showing and leaving it to the reader to imagine the scene. I found this version more compelling and poetic. The flow is better too.

I have a suggestion. Reverse L2 and 3. they are a little clumsy. Something like:-

the bedroom gloom's solitude 
not yet mastered 

Also I cannot understand why you cut the last two lines, they are powerful and provoking. A poem should always end with such lines.


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## Firemajic (Nov 23, 2019)

Thomas Norman said:


> Also I cannot understand why you cut the last two lines, they are powerful and provoking. A poem should always end with such lines.




Hummm, good question, Thomas... It has to do with the title, for me, the way I use the title for my poem is... it is part of the poem... does that make sense? The title is more than a "hook" to get the reader's attention... it is another clue to the poems overall meaning.... something like that...

Thank you for reading and commenting, I always enjoy your POV...


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## Pelwrath (Nov 23, 2019)

Fire, I enjoyed reading both versions. Also, sorry for your husband's passing, belated but my deepest condolences. I was going to suggest something very similar to what Thomas did.  If there's anything missing, it only means that you're not ready to say it. It'll some.


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## Thomas Norman (Nov 24, 2019)

Firemajic said:


> Hummm, good question, Thomas... It has to do with the title, for me, the way I use the title for my poem is... it is part of the poem... does that make sense? The title is more than a "hook" to get the reader's attention... it is another clue to the poems overall meaning.... something like that...
> 
> Thank you for reading and commenting, I always enjoy your POV...



Yes I understand, the title should form part of the poem but, although having read the earlier version I understand, I think a new reader would struggle to connect the title to the poem in its revised form. I think you need some sort of pointer; perhaps not so specific as in the original, just a hint to give the reader a chance to get that "overall meaning".


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## Firemajic (Nov 24, 2019)

Firemajic said:


> ****Revised...Helpful Hint, How to Remove Red Wine Stains
> 
> I sleep on the couch
> having not yet mastered the solitude
> ...



Pelwrath and Thomas..... the words in red.. does that work?


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## Thomas Norman (Nov 24, 2019)

Firemajic said:


> Pelwrath and Thomas..... the words in red.. does that work?



Sorry Fire but that doesn't work for me. It is too early in the poem, it breaks the line and rhythm and you have a repetition of _where _within two lines.

Place it at the end as before with a tweek


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## Firemajic (Nov 24, 2019)

Thank you .... I will keep working....


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## Pelwrath (Nov 24, 2019)

Fire,
     Yes it works but not there.  A suggestion on my train of thought and why.

I factored in the title as the first line of the poem.

I'd have those two lines like this:

having not mastered,
bedrooms solitude.

I'd move what you wrote as it's a powerful line to be the last line.

to not see claret stains
 bloom in darkened gloom
I leave the light off


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## Firemajic (Nov 24, 2019)

Thank you, Poet Pelwath .... you have made some valid points, and I will take these critiques and try to see what I can do... I appreciate all the feed back I have received, it is so valuable to me...


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## apple (Nov 27, 2019)

Firemajik, I think this poem is more than fear, loss and loneliness. To me it is about horror. When you wrote of unanswered questions, claret stains on a pristine wall... I thought of blood and the word why. I really liked the last line being ...I leave the light off. It says other things, the physical turning lights off, the fear of knowing.  I wonder if this would work (just an idea) If you just gave your advice and state  in the last lines:

To make claret stains less visible
on a once pristine wall,

Leave the light off  

(Original)
 I leave the light off
it makes the claret stains less visible
on the once pristine wall

I really like the poem and in some places it could be tightened a little, but not so much to take the flow away. Powerful piece.


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## Firemajic (Dec 3, 2019)

Dear Apple, I love your suggestions and I appreciate your insight into the heart of this poem.... I will continue to work on this until I am satisfied... Thank you, my friend, your thoughts and advice are so valued...


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## Gofa (Jan 5, 2020)

Im from a different culture and over time have accepted I see the world in an unusual way

i write to myself as if i explain it is no longer me  at best I write for a kindred soul to see past my words to the pictures in my head 

to me getting it right as against giving it raw   Raw wins 9 out of 10 times

to me from your poem I stand in your bedroom seeing shadows of you looking at the closet the hangers the covers the pillows asking was he ever here and what did I miss that would have kept him 

again thank you for letting me walk a mile in your shoes 

you mention the water colours   Some times less is more 

and irrevocably we never see just how lovely we are   One wrinkle and its screw looking at the rest of my face

PS yes i hear you but but  Punctuation is for people that feel an obligation to paint inside the lines and will never read my words and hear my soul talking in their head


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## Firemajic (Jan 5, 2020)

Gofa, thank you for reading and commenting, and thank you for your deep understanding of this poem.... I appreciate


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## Tirralirra (Jan 22, 2020)

Firemajic said:


> I sleep on the couch
> having not yet mastered the solitude
> of the bedroom gloom
> where cobwebbed memories cling in corners
> ...



A belated comment on this one (this was before my birth on this board).

This is a powerful statement on recent loss.


I’m commenting on the verses as at the start of the thread. I have found it almost impossible to know what the current state of revisions is, and perhaps the whole method of dealing with them needs reconsideration. I’m a refugee from pffa, where the policy was that a revision was posted in a new post, and identified as Revision number such and such. True, that method does detach the revision from the previous comments, but it does make clear the current state of play. Thoughts on this?

The discussion has touched on superfluity. The title is part of the poem. To me, ‘Helpful hint’ is redundant.

That sudden “avoid’ is a problem, unless you agree to minimal punctuation, maybe a comma at end of L1 and L4 and start L5 with ‘and”. 
How about eliminating ‘as abstract as’ in L9.
How might the final line sound as just ‘on that wall’?

Some thoughts, obviously with no obligation.

That pared down revision is to my mind much better than the original. I think you can do without the claret stains here, and certainly not Pelwrath’s ‘blooming’ ones (sorry Pelwrath - but it seems too much) - they (the stains) are a separate thought and could be the root of a new piece...


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## Firemajic (Jan 23, 2020)

Tirralirra said:


> A belated comment on this one (this was before my birth on this board).
> 
> This is a powerful statement on recent loss.
> 
> ...



I post my revision after careful thought to critique I have received.. I do it that way, so someone reading the thread, from start to finish can see how the process of critique and revision works, all in one thread... I am sorry this is confusing... 
Thank you for your comments....


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