# character- vs plot-driven story



## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

When you write, are your stories character-driven or plot-driven? It confuses me sometimes, but i wanted to make a character driven story for a contest, and yet I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. Most of the time when i write i don't even think about it, but i guess i do a bit of both. What about you all?


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## moderan (Apr 5, 2013)

It depends on what effect I'm after. A good portion of my pieces are setting-driven, where the environment is the determining factor in the action. But I've done both of the above styles as well.
Character-driven I see as internally-motivated, where the action derives from what the viewpoint character does or doesn't do, where plot-driven depends on external circumstance. Some admixture of all three is desirable, probably inescapable, but one feature may predominate. In any case, it's a matter of deliberately setting out to make the piece work that way.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Apr 5, 2013)

I've always considered my story character-driven, because the story would be completely different if told from a different perspective.  The characters don't drive the plot, but they're what make the plot the story that it is.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

I've thought about having the main character think about coming home at the end of work and on his way home he does different things before finally arriving at his house to the woman of his dreams on Valentines day. Of course there's a twist ending to it. I'll probably write a quick rough draft then edit it and see what people on here think. :]


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## Tettsuo (Apr 5, 2013)

Character driven all the way.

You can even make the environment a character of sorts.  Dune is an example of the environment being an active character in the story.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

I haven't read Dune yet, but i think I've heard of it. Is it a Stephen King novel?


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## Tettsuo (Apr 5, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> I haven't read Dune yet, but i think I've heard of it. Is it a Stephen King novel?



/cry

I feel so old now

Frank Herbert is the writer.


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## EvermenEXE (Apr 5, 2013)

I definitely have a focus on characters. They are the vehicle of my plot and certainly make plot progression easier. When I have weak characters it makes plot work a very perilous and risky endeavor. If my characters aren't fleshed out, my motivation suddenly falls out halfway through my chapter.


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## Nickleby (Apr 5, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> I haven't read Dune yet, but i think I've heard of it. Is it a Stephen King novel?



Stop what you're doing. Find a copy. Read it.

Don't bother with the movies or the sequels.

_Star Wars_ is full of stuff stolen from _Dune_. Unless you absolutely hate _Star Wars_, you'll like _Dune_. It's for grownups.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

Tettsuo said:


> /cry
> 
> I feel so old now
> 
> Frank Herbert is the writer.


Lmao, sorry!


Nickleby said:


> Stop what you're doing. Find a copy. Read it.
> 
> Don't bother with the movies or the sequels.
> 
> _Star Wars_ is full of stuff stolen from _Dune_. Unless you absolutely hate _Star Wars_, you'll like _Dune_. It's for grownups.


Uh oh i have a feeling Dune is scifi based? I'm not much of a fan when it comes to star wars or star trek. I just can't get into science fiction. It boggles my mind too much.


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## sknox (Apr 5, 2013)

I would hope the contest rules provide more guidelines than just "character-driven."  

The distinction is easy to caricature, hard to define precisely, and even harder to get a bunch of writers to agree upon. As for caricature:  character-driven means nothing happens; event-driven means nobody changes. Conversely, and a bit more charitably: character-driven stories focus on the development (change) in one or more central characters; event-driven stories focus mainly on an event (e.g., Invaders from Spaaaaace). 

In reality, few stories are all about character with no events, and few stories are all about events with no development of character. That's why I said I hope the contest has more guidelines, because if that's all they ask, it's ... poorly worded.


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## Bilston Blue (Apr 5, 2013)

Life's about people and what they do and why they do those things, how they feel and react and interact. I suppose my fiction imitates this, definitely character driven. I've been advised on a couple of occasions my work is a little thin on the plot front, but that the characters tend to pull the whole thing through. I'm okay with that, but working on plot strength is a must and is the area I want to improve on.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

sknox said:


> I would hope the contest rules provide more guidelines than just "character-driven."
> 
> The distinction is easy to caricature, hard to define precisely, and even harder to get a bunch of writers to agree upon. As for caricature:  character-driven means nothing happens; event-driven means nobody changes. Conversely, and a bit more charitably: character-driven stories focus on the development (change) in one or more central characters; event-driven stories focus mainly on an event (e.g., Invaders from Spaaaaace).
> 
> In reality, few stories are all about character with no events, and few stories are all about events with no development of character. That's why I said I hope the contest has more guidelines, because if that's all they ask, it's ... poorly worded.



I'll need to check the contest guidelines again once i get off work, but the gist of it is we have to write a character driven short story 3k words or less. So I'm guessing we need to make a memorable character.


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## Nickleby (Apr 5, 2013)

In a character-driven story, things happen because one or more characters make them happen. Some good ways to delineate characters are to show what they are willing to do to get what they want, or do to thwart someone else from getting what they want, or refuse to do even if it means losing something. Once you establish a character trait, it's generally considered poor form to show the character acting against that trait.

In a plot-driven story, things happen in spite of the characters, not because of them. In this case, you can delineate characters by showing how they react to unexpected events, how they modify their behavior when circumstances change, or how their relationships adapt to stress. Writers who focus too much on plot may show someone acting out of character, simply because the plot demands it.

I like strong characters, so they tend to drive my plots. The best characters will tell you what to do rather than vice versa.


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## Nickleby (Apr 5, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> Uh oh i have a feeling Dune is scifi based? I'm not much of a fan when it comes to star wars or star trek. I just can't get into science fiction. It boggles my mind too much.



Oh.

Never mind.


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## Kevin (Apr 5, 2013)

@KR- Jihadists riding giant sandworms- mm-hmm. It actually very well done. Mother/son relationship, being emerced in a foreign culture...but it is sci-fi. 'Premices' are the big thing in sci-fi. Like...what would it be like a thousand years in the future? It's also just a vehicle for the characters to act in.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

Nickleby said:


> Oh.
> 
> Never mind.


Got me all hyped up for nothing!


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## Sam (Apr 5, 2013)

Why should what _I _write have any bearing on what _you _write? 

If you must know, most of my stories are plot-driven. Comes with the territory. That's not to say there isn't good character development, but that the plot moves the story along more than the characters.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

Sam said:


> Why should what _I _write have any bearing on what _you _write?
> 
> If you must know, most of my stories are plot-driven. Comes with the territory. That's not to say there isn't good character development, but that the plot moves the story along more than the characters.



Oh it makes all the difference in the world sir. You don't even know. Don't. Even. Know. *nods sagely*


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## Rustgold (Apr 5, 2013)

Nickleby said:


> Stop what you're doing. Find a copy. Read it.
> Don't bother with the movies or the sequels.
> _Star Wars_ is full of stuff stolen from _Dune_. Unless you absolutely hate _Star Wars_, you'll like _Dune_. It's for grownups.



I actually read the series (I only count the first five books) when I about ten/twelve (of course I didn't understand everything in it - not that I knew I didn't understand it - but anyway).
Whatever you do, don't watch the movie.  *Seriously, don't*, with bolded on it.

@KRHolbrook: It's not so sci-fi as lameo Star Trek, although it is a bit weird.


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## Leyline (Apr 5, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> When you write, are your stories character-driven or plot-driven? It confuses me sometimes, but i wanted to make a character driven story for a contest, and yet I'm not entirely sure how to go about it. Most of the time when i write i don't even think about it, but i guess i do a bit of both. What about you all?



Most good stories are _both_, pardon my judgmental.   One of the best ways to make a story both is by strict first-person POV. In that tense, the plot tends to be what the narrator chooses to focus on. The plot is, actually, character based.


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## namesake (Apr 5, 2013)

I never worked on a novel. Character-based stories is what I try to write. As someone once said, characters are fiction. I generally write short fiction.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 5, 2013)

Leyline said:


> Most good stories are _both_, pardon my judgmental.


Curse your judgmental opinion!


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## Leyline (Apr 5, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> Curse your judgmental opinion!



Cursed rather than excused! Serves me right. 

My advice was serious, though.  On the other hand, even, strict first person POV could also allow you write a nearly plotless character study, especially if the character was legitimately -- say by severe ADHD or autism or use of certain drugs -- unable to maintain focus in certain situation. That would open itself up to some interesting stories as well. First person is only limited in external information, not in range of character or technique.


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## Staff Deployment (Apr 5, 2013)

Dune is very dense and requires the reader to just kind of 'go with it' in most cases. It's all explained but the explanations themselves rely on unwavering suspension of disbelief. It's an excellent book. The sequence where they cross the desert trying to avoid the worm sticks in my mind to this day. Also, the pain-box. The pain-box was cool.

Right, character-driven stories. An important thing to keep in mind is that drawing out aspects of a character is often more effective than explaining them outright.


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## js1268 (Apr 6, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> I've thought about having the main character think about coming home at the end of work and on his way home he does different things before finally arriving at his house to the woman of his dreams on Valentines day. Of course there's a twist ending to it. I'll probably write a quick rough draft then edit it and see what people on here think. :]



... this sounds VERY cliche

try to avoid cliches... they're trite and boring.... but i'm anxious to read an edited rough draft so i could issue a more thorough opinion... =-)


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 6, 2013)

LOL, yes, I agree cliches should be avoided, however there are some times when it's quite fun to write a cliche, just to spice it up.


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## js1268 (Apr 6, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> LOL, yes, I agree cliches should be avoided, however there are some times when it's quite fun to write a cliche, just to spice it up.



...not really

if you want to spice things up, you avoid cliches... spicy things are designed to convey originality and uniqueness.... thematic cliches don't do that

i suppose if you're an idealist, and you're bent on exploring archetypal concepts for personal reasons then i can see their value... but presuming a reading audience will share that interest is wholly presumptuous

if i want to read about some guy coming home to the woman of his dreams on valentines day i'd read about carl jung's 'anima/animus' complex ...at least he gets to the source as part our collective unconscious


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 6, 2013)

I'm not a mushy kind of person. I write horror stories, so its not going to be a sweet ending as you seem to be suggesting. I wrote a short flash fiction piece of fifty words involving Valentines day about a husband cutting out his wifes heart, and this story is expanding on that idea.


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## Staff Deployment (Apr 6, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> I wrote a short flash fiction piece of fifty words involving Valentines day about a husband cutting out his wifes heart



_Yes._
I would very much like to read this story.


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 6, 2013)

Staff Deployment said:


> _Yes._
> I would very much like to read this story.


Staff, i hate you. I knew someone was going to want to read it.
I'd posted it on a writing site that shut down for a while, and my retarded self didn't save it.  i keep trying to remember what the exact story said, but can't. I only know what it was about.


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## js1268 (Apr 6, 2013)

KRHolbrook said:


> I'm not a mushy kind of person. I write horror stories, so its not going to be a sweet ending as you seem to be suggesting. I wrote a short flash fiction piece of fifty words involving Valentines day about a husband cutting out his wifes heart, and this story is expanding on that idea.



i look forward to reading it when you post... =-)


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## KRHolbrook (Apr 6, 2013)

Hopefully I can get it all down on the screen, because it's pretty much planned out in my head.


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## Leyline (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm always down for an ironic de-heartification.

In literature, mind.


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## Ever2222 (Apr 7, 2013)

Stories can be either plot driven or character driven, doesn't matter. But to make a good story, you must have a balance of both.


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## js1268 (Apr 7, 2013)

^^^ what 'Ever222' said

IMO, it's never one or the other... you have to have a balance of both

worse thing one can do is make a conscious choice about what's going to drive the story- character or plot


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## Ever2222 (Apr 7, 2013)

js1268 said:


> ^^^ what 'Ever222' said
> 
> IMO, it's never one or the other... you have to have a balance of both
> 
> worse thing one can do is make a conscious choice about what's going to drive the story- character or plot



I see the point you are making here, but that's not what I was saying. No, I'm not saying just make your story whatever, but a plot driven story needs character drive too. As well as character driven stories need plot drive. That's all I meant.


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## js1268 (Apr 7, 2013)

no, i wasn't speaking to you when i said 'worse thing one can do is make a conscioius choice about what's going to drive the story-character or plot'

... i was simply responding to the original post...some of my students have mulled for what seemed like hours trying to decide whether to use their characters or the plot itself to drive the story along...and when they decide, it most often turns out disastrous 

i tell them to just 'write!'... when it's finished, THEN we can determine what essential elements moved the story along - its characters or the plot


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## moderan (Apr 7, 2013)

A story can be perfectly good with an _imbalance_ of character and plot. Anyone can point to stories with essentially no (or "wooden") characters that succeed because of plot or setting. And there are certainly stories driven by character that have little or no plot. 
Most of the "advice" online cites "Harry Potter" as "character-driven" and "The Lord of the Rings" as "plot-driven", since the assumption is that most readers are familiar with both. But both certainly have elements of both, and the plotting of the Potter books seems quite deliberate. Whether that is the result of many edits or not is immaterial. And TLotR certainly has a panoply of well-drawn characters.
This is really a non-essential question. Here's some reasonably good advice. As you continue to write, you'll learn more about how to use the tools at hand and grow less preoccupied with the whys and wherefores. In the beginning, I'd advise as much experimentation as possible, to learn and grow as quickly as possible, and to have the maximum amount of fun.


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## js1268 (Apr 7, 2013)

_"A story can be perfectly good with an imbalance of character and plot..." _

absolutely!


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## moderan (Apr 8, 2013)

js1268 said:


> ^^^ what 'Ever222' said
> 
> IMO, it's never one or the other... you have to have a balance of both
> 
> worst thing one can do is make a conscious choice about what's going to drive the story- character or plot


I'm sorry. I disagree. For the first, see below.
For the second, a skilled writer can absolutely plan to do one or the other, or an alternative such as setting or atmosphere-driven. Poe's Masque of the Red Death is a perfect example of the latter. It is virtually plotless and none of the characters are particularly memorable, but it's seen by many as one of the greatest short stories ever penned. There's little doubt that Poe intended it to be that way. He performed the same trick again and again.
Provided some information about the others in the previous post, partially quoted below.



js1268 said:


> _"A story can be perfectly good with an imbalance of character and plot..." _
> 
> absolutely!



Kind of contradicts the previous. 
It's unusual and difficult at novel-length, but plenty of short works are entirely _character_ or feature what I think of as character-as-plot, where everything turns on introspection and little or nothing happens. It doesn't have to be completely static either-I've never read one, but I'd guess that you could have an entire novel that consisted of conversation.
As always, it depends on the skill of thr writer. And as always, this is only my opinion. ymmv.


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## js1268 (Apr 8, 2013)

i can see where you think i made the contradiction... my point- as is probably others- is that it's not one OR the other (plot or character) ....nor is it an equal concrete blend of both (that would literally be impossible)

no, the imbalance speaks to a dynamic between the two that makes the story work ....THAT is the balance, as ironical as it sounds


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## Staff Deployment (Apr 8, 2013)

moderan said:


> I've never read one, but I'd guess that you could have an entire novel that consisted of conversation.



This is kind of cheating, but Anne Rice's _Interview With the Vampire_ is, in the strictest sense, made up of 99.99% dialogue. Most of the time she even bothers to include quotation marks around every... single... paragraph...


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## moderan (Apr 8, 2013)

js1268 said:


> i can see where you think i made the contradiction... my point- as is probably others- is that it's not one OR the other (plot or character) ....nor is it an equal concrete blend of both (that would literally be impossible)
> 
> no, the imbalance speaks to a dynamic between the two that makes the story work ....THAT is the balance, as ironical as it sounds


It sounds like the old soft-shoe around the mobile goalposts. If that's what you meant, you should have made that clear in the first place.



Staff Deployment said:


> This is kind of cheating, but Anne Rice's _Interview With the Vampire_ is, in the strictest sense, made up of 99.99% dialogue. Most of the time she even bothers to include quotation marks around every... single... paragraph...


I suppose that's right. I've never been able to read an entire Anne Rice tome. It is structured as an interview though.


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## js1268 (Apr 8, 2013)

_It sounds like the old soft-shoe around the mobile goalposts. If that's  what you meant, you should have made that clear in the first place.
_
...i'm sorry, i was certain that it was implied

but since you seem to be the kind of person who needs solid direction then i concede to your point

i suppose i could have said:

 "yes, a balance of both is good... but not an absolute equal concrete amount of plot and character... and when it's finished, you should count or somehow measure the instances where the characters drive the story versus the plot driving the story... and if they're unequal, that's a good thing...it makes for a dynamic piece"

that better?


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## moderan (Apr 8, 2013)

Heh...I don't need direction at all, but thanks for the offer. I'm sure it was meant only in the best possible way. In the spirit of plain speaking and clear understanding, your new version is better. In literature, one gets to edit. In life, not so much. 
Fwiw, I have a B.Sc in computer science and a B.A. in journalism and 35 years of semiprofessional writing. I have a clue about the written word. I'm not averse to pointless squabbling at times, but there are other times when it can be awful distracting. And I'll leave it at that, at 8:30 on a Monday morning. Enjoy your day.


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## js1268 (Apr 8, 2013)

i didn't ask for your credentials, but ....thanks?

and cheers to you... i've gotta go install the heads, pistons and cylinders on my motorcycle


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## moderan (Apr 8, 2013)

You showed us yours first. I was simply establishing context for my arguments. Ride on.


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## js1268 (Apr 8, 2013)

moderan said:


> You showed us yours first...



right... after this: _"And suddenly you're an expert on what other people have experienced? Do tell."_ 

write on, you semi-pro writer of 35 years


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## Sam (Apr 8, 2013)

Personal comments are not tolerated. Keep the discussion about the topic, not the posters.


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## js1268 (Apr 8, 2013)

really? ... i hope that goes for 'moderan' as well, considering he attacked my profession by stating that he pities my students... =-/

typical forum... no different than any other when it comes to moderation and those who are veteran posters

...i'm out


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## Sam (Apr 8, 2013)

When I put a warning in a thread, it applies to everyone.

End of.


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## WechtleinUns (Apr 8, 2013)

The best explanation that I've ever heard on "Character Driven vs. Plot Driven" is that the climax of a plot driven story is a physical event, while the climax of a character driven story is a mental event.

To illustrate this, we can look at Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's stone, where a lot of action and events occur, and in the end, The Gryffindor house wins the house cup.

We can contrast this with a novel like Kokoro, in which the main character has to, essentially, make a judgement. Much of the plot in Kokoro has very little to do with external events and dangers. Much of the tension has to do with judgement and what the character's think about this or that.

*To put it in perspective, tension in a novel like Kokoro comes from the reader not knowing what the characters think. Tension in a novel like Harry potter comes from the reader not knowing what the characters are going to do.*

I hope this helps, KRHolbrook. Also, I like your avatar. Que Hermosa. 

:Edit:

Well... this is awkward. I suppose I could write a book about the dangers of not reading past the first page. XD


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## Kyle R (Apr 8, 2013)

I can't remember who said it, but I agree with it as a simplification: "Story equals change."

If the main point of the story is to show how a character changes, it may be a character-driven story.

If the main point of the story is to show how the storyworld changes, it may be a plot-driven story.

Personally, I like to have both happen, if I can. Why not cover all the bases?


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## WechtleinUns (Apr 9, 2013)

That's a good way of putting it, KyleColorado. Much more succinct than my rambling, haha.


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