# a country in moarning



## Mistique (Jul 19, 2014)

I wasn't sure at first, but I have to put this up. It can't go unsaid. I am from the Netherlands - as most of you know - and I need to express this sadness I feel. The Ukraine air disaster left 295 dead of which 193 Dutch. People talk about it all the time. There is news about it on tv all the time. The images that I see on t.v. leave me horrified. The bodies are treated witch such disrespect. So many of them are still out there in the burning sun. I see soldiers handle personal items of those that were on the flight. Bank cards of victims get stolen. Stories come up all the time now from the family of those that were on the flight. An 18 year old boy lost his entire family on the flight. there were three people on the flight from the area I live in; a dentist assistant and an elderly couple. They will be greatly missed as I am sure all the victims will be. I don't know who did this or why. I don't care who did this. All I care about are those 295 people who are not with us any more today. I want to express my sadness for their deaths and anyone else who wants to do the same is free to join me. Please don't use this thread to start discussions about who is responsible or not. This thread is not about that, its about the victims and their families. I hope they will be reunited soon so the families can burry their own and grieve. My heart breaks for them.


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## Ari (Jul 19, 2014)

I am so, so very sorry ::sympathy, great sadness::


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## Plasticweld (Jul 19, 2014)

I can not grieve without looking for solutions. I can not just keep it simple without wanting to know why and what can be done so it does not happened again. Maybe it is a guy thing.


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## Mistique (Jul 19, 2014)

Ari said:


> I am so, so very sorry ::sympathy, great sadness::



So am I


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## Mistique (Jul 19, 2014)

Plasticweld said:


> I can not grieve without looking for solutions. I can not just keep it simple without wanting to know why and what can be done so it does not happened again. Maybe it is a guy thing.



I understand that and I want all those things too, but I can't make those things happen. I can show my respect for the dead, so that is what I do.


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## stormageddon (Jul 19, 2014)

When I was a little kid, I used to go on walking holidays at Easter with my family, and several others. One year, when I was five or six, I was playing with the other kids, one of whom was a toddler. Long story short, he ended up ripping out one of my teeth. I resented him as a child, but that became a fond memory as I grew old enough to see the funny side of it. One of my most vivid memories of my childhood.

He and his family were on that plane. He was fourteen. His brother was twelve. I don't have words for this.


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## Plasticweld (Jul 19, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> When I was a little kid, I used to go on walking holidays at Easter with my family, and several others. One year, when I was five or six, I was playing with the other kids, one of whom was a toddler. Long story short, he ended up ripping out one of my teeth. I resented him as a child, but that became a fond memory as I grew old enough to see the funny side of it. One of my most vivid memories of my childhood.
> 
> He and his family were on that plane. He was twelve. His brother was fifteen. I don't have words for this.



Sorry Storm, there is nothing like a personal relationship to bring a tragedy home to your heart, than to know first hand those involved.


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## Gofa (Jul 20, 2014)

6 degrees of separation


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## Mistique (Jul 20, 2014)

stormageddon said:


> When I was a little kid, I used to go on walking holidays at Easter with my family, and several others. One year, when I was five or six, I was playing with the other kids, one of whom was a toddler. Long story short, he ended up ripping out one of my teeth. I resented him as a child, but that became a fond memory as I grew old enough to see the funny side of it. One of my most vivid memories of my childhood.
> 
> He and his family were on that plane. He was twelve. His brother was fifteen. I don't have words for this.



I am so so sorry to hear that. Thank you for sharing that story. It gives the victims a face and I think that's very important.


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## Mistique (Jul 20, 2014)

Gofa said:


> 6 degrees of separation



Maybe its me, but I don't understand.


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## Ari (Jul 20, 2014)

Storm, again I'm so sorry... ):

Mistique, I think he means that for any person in the world, there are no more than six people separating them from any other person. 
Like you could name me anyone and I could ask a friend, who has a cousin overseas, who knew a doctor, who knows an old lady, who used to babysit that person when he was small. And then it's like I know him too.
I think that is the theory.


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## Mistique (Jul 20, 2014)

Ari said:


> Storm, again I'm so sorry... ):
> 
> Mistique, I think he means that for any person in the world, there are no more than six people separating them from any other person.
> Like you could name me anyone and I could ask a friend, who has a cousin overseas, who knew a doctor, who knows an old lady, who used to babysit that person when he was small. And then it's like I know him too.
> I think that is the theory.



Oh, right, I understand. Thanks for explaining.


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## No Man (Jul 20, 2014)

sympathy, great sadness also


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## dither (Jul 20, 2014)

Misti,
it's one awful situation that cannot be justified, the world is what it is, and the idea that the world is shrinking, scares me.

dither


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## Mistique (Jul 20, 2014)

No Man said:


> sympathy, great sadness also



Thank you


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## midnightpoet (Jul 20, 2014)

Words cannot express the feelings of sadness and horror when I heard about the tragedy.  Our prayers are with you and the families of the victims.


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## Pandora (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm appalled at this crime against humanity, the babies, the children. To leave the scene as it is, pictures for the world to see and feel, is shameful. This angers me while my heart remembers the loved ones and their loss. Who can do these terrible things to innocent people, who? Sometimes this world is so ugly.


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## InstituteMan (Jul 20, 2014)

I have so many emotions and thoughts rolling around over this. To know people, even over the internet, impacted brings home how terrible this is.

Mystique, I wish you and your neighbors whatever comfort you can find. Thank you for sharing -- we all need to read and understand as best we can.

Stormy, you really brought me up short. People are people, even when they are people far away from me. Take care of yourself.


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## escorial (Jul 20, 2014)

some humans just can't stop killing


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## Mistique (Jul 20, 2014)

dither said:


> Misti,
> it's one awful situation that cannot be justified, the world is what it is, and the idea that the world is shrinking, scares me.
> 
> dither



Yes, it is. Thank you for responding.

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midnightpoet said:


> Words cannot express the feelings of sadness and horror when I heard about the tragedy.  Our prayers are with you and the families of the victims.



Thank you.


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## Mistique (Jul 20, 2014)

Pandora said:


> I'm appalled at this crime against humanity, the babies, the children. To leave the scene as it is, pictures for the world to see and feel, is shameful. This angers me while my heart remembers the loved ones and their loss. Who can do these terrible things to innocent people, who? Sometimes this world is so ugly.



Yes, sometimes it is. Its a side of the world I'd rather not think about much, but something like things throws it full in your face.

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InstituteMan said:


> I have so many emotions and thoughts rolling around over this. To know people, even over the internet, impacted brings home how terrible this is.
> 
> Mystique, I wish you and your neighbors whatever comfort you can find. Thank you for sharing -- we all need to read and understand as best we can.
> 
> Stormy, you really brought me up short. People are people, even when they are people far away from me. Take care of yourself.



Thank you very much for your kind words.

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escorial said:


> some humans just can't stop killing



True. I wish it wasn't true, but it is.


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## Mistique (Jul 20, 2014)

I feel great sadness for this tragedy, but its not all I feel. I have never felt such pride before for my country and the people in it. Everywhere I look there are people helping others. People comforting strangers. People feeling anger and sadness over what has happened to people they don't know. People bringing flowers to Schiphol (Amsterdam's airport) and signing the condolences register. They travel far to do it and stand in line patiently to be able to show their support. We are really pulling together and it brings tears to my eyes to see it.


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## ShadowEyes (Jul 20, 2014)

Mistique said:


> I feel great sadness for this tragedy, but its not all I feel. I have never felt such pride before for my country and the people in it. Everywhere I look there are people helping others. People comforting strangers. People feeling anger and sadness over what has happened to people they don't know. People bringing flowers to Schiphol (Amsterdam's airport) and signing the condolences register. They travel far to do it and stand in line patiently to be able to show their support. We are really pulling together and it brings tears to my eyes to see it.



It is said that a tragedy either brings a family together or breaks it apart. I think that the Netherlands will not forget this and yet, will still act courageously in the world theater as a people of great compassion. I am sure that you will carry the fullness of each individual life who died that day as remembrance of what it means to live. To live in accordance with the love that they showed, which, undoubtedly, is what they would have wanted. Moreover, because you brought this up, I will remember them, too.

We cannot give in to those who would tear our nations apart. I daresay they expect us to get angry as this desecration. We, globally, should rise above rash anger to define our characters as suffering-enduring. Only in that quiet confidence can we enact judgment. They want us to suffer, but we will suffer through love!


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## Mistique (Jul 21, 2014)

ShadowEyes said:


> It is said that a tragedy either brings a family together or breaks it apart. I think that the Netherlands will not forget this and yet, will still act courageously in the world theater as a people of great compassion. I am sure that you will carry the fullness of each individual life who died that day as remembrance of what it means to live. To live in accordance with the love that they showed, which, undoubtedly, is what they would have wanted. Moreover, because you brought this up, I will remember them, too.
> 
> We cannot give in to those who would tear our nations apart. I daresay they expect us to get angry as this desecration. We, globally, should rise above rash anger to define our characters as suffering-enduring. Only in that quiet confidence can we enact judgment. They want us to suffer, but we will suffer through love!



Thank you for your kind words. That is exactly why I started this thread, so that the victims would be remembered. I agree thats its important that we rise above this. For us to respond with dignity and respect. War and hate is their language, not mine.


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## Pandora (Jul 21, 2014)

Looking to the good that comes out of horrific is always the answer. I imagine maybe someday all humans will unite to save our species. Leaving behind hate and discrimination. When I think of the Netherlands I think of forgiving gentle people, a country of justice and compassion. A country to be proud of.


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## Mistique (Jul 21, 2014)

Pandora said:


> Looking to the good that comes out of horrific is always the answer. I imagine maybe someday all humans will unite to save our species. Leaving behind hate and discrimination. When I think of the Netherlands I think of forgiving gentle people, a country of justice and compassion. A country to be proud of.



I am proud. We're not perfect - we make a mess of things at times - but I am proud just the same. Especially now.


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## Mistique (Jul 23, 2014)

Just moments ago a plane with several of the victims left Charkov airport. Five hours from now they will arive on Eindhoven Airport where they will be awaited by their family, our goverment, representatives of the other countries involved and our kind and queen. 

Today is an official day of national grief. This is a huge exception since the last one was half a century ago.

Our country will show the victims and their families the respect they deserve. Church bells will ring moments before the plane arives. Shops will turn off music the moment they arive. Airtrafic over our airspace will stop. busses and cabs will stand still. Flags are half pole everywhere (including my own house). There will be a long line of hearces (sixty of them) driving across our country - two highways will be closed off for them - to take the victims to the military base where the proces of identification will start. Along the way people will stand still and be silent. There will be a silent walk in Amsterdam at 8 p.m. today ending in a moment of silence at eleven p.m.

After today we will see lines of hearces drive on our highways every day to one by one take all of the victims to the military base. In the next weeks and months there will be funerals in my country every day (or every week) after the victims have been identified and released to their families. Two of those will be Rishi Jhinkoe and his wife. Rishi was a 29 year old man who lived in my city and who had gotten married only days before this tragedy and who was on his way to Kuala Lumpur for his honey moon.


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## Mistique (Jul 23, 2014)

...


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## Pandora (Jul 23, 2014)

Oh God Mistique I am so sorry. Any words I have are not enough.


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## InstituteMan (Jul 23, 2014)

I hope that healing can begin for you and the Netherlands and the world, Mistique.


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## aj47 (Jul 23, 2014)

My words come up missing.  Nothing seems adequate to the task. Everyone is known by someone and we are all together in this same world.


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## Winston (Jul 23, 2014)

It's REAL hard for me to keep politics out of this, but I will.

As a young man, I was horrified when the Soviets shot down the civilian airliner KAL 007.  It's one of the reasons I joined the US Marines.  I wanted vengeance.  I wanted to make people pay for their evil.
Years later, I see justice differently.  I'm still angry when the innocent are murdered, but I am much more sad than vindictive.  Those that murdered the innocent civilians on MH 17 will pay.  God, Karma will set the score even. Maybe with a little help from some specially trained teams... 
We just can't change who we are.  Ever.  Then THEY win.


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## Mistique (Jul 24, 2014)

Pandora said:


> Oh God Mistique I am so sorry. Any words I have are not enough.



I feel the same way. Words are just nog enough.

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InstituteMan said:


> I hope that healing can begin for you and the Netherlands and the world, Mistique.



I hope so too.


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## Mistique (Jul 24, 2014)

astroannie said:


> My words come up missing.  Nothing seems adequate to the task. Everyone is known by someone and we are all together in this same world.



Yes, everyone is known and loved by someone. Thank you for your words.


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## Mistique (Jul 24, 2014)

Winston said:


> It's REAL hard for me to keep politics out of this, but I will.
> 
> As a young man, I was horrified when the Soviets shot down the civilian airliner KAL 007.  It's one of the reasons I joined the US Marines.  I wanted vengeance.  I wanted to make people pay for their evil.
> Years later, I see justice differently.  I'm still angry when the innocent are murdered, but I am much more sad than vindictive.  Those that murdered the innocent civilians on MH 17 will pay.  God, Karma will set the score even. Maybe with a little help from some specially trained teams...
> We just can't change who we are.  Ever.  Then THEY win.



You are right, we can't change who we are, and we can't go for the vindictive route. No matter how tempting. Vendictive is what they did when they shot down the plane. They didn't mean to shoot down us, they meant to shoot down their enemies and this is the result. Maybe we can try to seak justice, but most of all we can try to heal. For me that means that starting today I will stop watching every bit of news there is out there regarding this tragedy. I've seen enough. I will be there on route watching every victim come home (as I have done yesterday with the first group) so that the families know that I (and the rest who are there with me) care. I already feel that I've seen enough hearses to last me a life time, but I will be there just the same. After that its over for me.


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## bazz cargo (Jul 24, 2014)

Hi Misti,
I thought of you when this was first reported. It is a tragedy and a shining example of how horrible people can be. 

I like to think that as the internet connects people from across the world and we realise that everyone is basically the same and not really the ogres that TPTB wish us to believe we can put most conflicts behind us.

If only...


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## Mistique (Jul 24, 2014)

bazz cargo said:


> Hi Misti,
> I thought of you when this was first reported. It is a tragedy and a shining example of how horrible people can be.
> 
> I like to think that as the internet connects people from across the world and we realise that everyone is basically the same and not really the ogres that TPTB wish us to believe we can put most conflicts behind us.
> ...



Oh, I definately hope that too. Nobody wants their children to die.


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## Mistique (Jul 25, 2014)




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## Mistique (Jul 25, 2014)

A world of sadness got created the day the plane was shot down. Today for the first time since the tragedy a big smile appeared on my face. It happened when I read this online:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...king-netherlands-for-forgiveness-9628474.html

Now that is utterly amazing and warms my heart. I guess I was wrong. It's not a country in moarning... its the world... even Russia. Perhaps not Putin, but there are Russians - just like there are Ukrainians - who moarn this tragedy too. Thank you for that.


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## Pandora (Jul 26, 2014)

The picture is unbelievable, hard to grasp the numbers. If the people could run the world, not governments, I wonder could there be peace? So very sorry Mistique for you, your country, all the people.


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## Mistique (Jul 26, 2014)

Pandora said:


> The picture is unbelievable, hard to grasp the numbers. If the people could run the world, not governments, I wonder could there be peace? So very sorry Mistique for you, your country, all the people.



Yes, it is. Today was the forth and (for the time being) last day. 38 more hearses today. 40 on the first day, 74 on the second and 75 on the third. The numbers are just mindblowing, but painfully clear when you see those black cars.


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## dither (Jul 26, 2014)

Pandora said:


> The picture is unbelievable, hard to grasp the numbers. If the people could run the world, not governments, I wonder could there be peace? So very sorry Mistique for you, your country, all the people.



Peace and a little less deprivation perhaps.


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## dither (Jul 26, 2014)

Mistique said:


>



OMG.
Kind of brings it home doesn't it. :-(


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## Mistique (Jul 26, 2014)

dither said:


> OMG.
> Kind of brings it home doesn't it. :-(



Yes, it does. Definately a picture that says more than words can.


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