# Evolution of technology



## rainen (Aug 24, 2012)

I was wondering, how do you think a civilization's technology would evolve if the majority of the planet was composed of titanium in addition to the populace having fairly strong magical abilities?  

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Creation: The race was created to serve as a sort of keeper of knowledge for a dying race.  
Government: It is a matriarchal society that is ruled by a queen who may run the civilization as she pleases, either with total control or through delegation.  The queen is raised from birth to be "perfect" and incorruptible. 
Magic: Magic is nothing more then the manipulation of space and time.  There is a sort of life energy that is distributed throughout the universe known as Mystic Essence which allows people to do so.  Mystic Essence can also be turned into other forms of energy and matter, and other forms of energy and matter can be turned into Mystic Essence by select individuals with the right tools and ability. (Only the queen with her pendant can do this as far as this planet goes) NOTE: Not all people can use magic.  Only those that are in-tune to mystic essence or are imbued with its power may do so.
Technology:Not sure where to go for this one. 

World info:
Landmass: 55% land, 45% water.  Landmass is concentrated towards the equatorial region with three continents.  Two large ones on either side of a smaller one that creates the capital city.
Diameter: twice the size of earth
Atmosphere: Similar to earth, higher O2 concentration, similar Ozone layer
Population: 10 billion, population per square mile about 20 on the larger continents, closer to 50 on the smaller continent.
Deposits:  Ore deposits are 50% titanium, 15% carbon based, 10% gems, 5% precious gems, 5% aluminum, 5% iron, 5% precious metals and 5% various other ores.  There are minimal deposits of non-renewable resources such as coal, oil, etc.


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## Bloggsworth (Aug 25, 2012)

We need a context, otherwise a surfeit of titanium is irrelevant, as magic would overcome any difficulties in working with the material, which is very hard and oxidises at the drop of a hat, at least, a hot hat...


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## rainen (Aug 25, 2012)

I suppose a few specifics would be:

Transportation

Entertainment

Building layouts

General Infrastructure

I added some info of the world to the main post as well since that'll help.


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## Bloggsworth (Aug 26, 2012)

Titanium is used as an alternative to steel where lightness is a consideration, aircraft, racing cars and motorbikes, that sort of thing. As I said, Titanium oxidises easily, even with the heat generated by friction. It is very hard and a pain to drill, it also requires inert gas welding processes, it work hardens much more rapidly than steel - All of this makes it a pain and expensive to use, but in your world all it does is reverse the cost/benefit analysis and mean that iron and steel now become the exotic materials and Titanium the cheap stuff. Where Ti is impractical, the more expensive alternative, steel, would be used.


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## The Backward OX (Aug 26, 2012)

Apropos of nothing, the inside of my throat's held together with titanium staples.


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## Bloggsworth (Aug 26, 2012)

The Backward OX said:


> Apropos of nothing, the inside of my throat's held together with titanium staples.



Titanium, like acrylic, Dacron, polypropylene and its derivatives, is inert within the human body.


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## Cran (Aug 26, 2012)

> Deposits:  Ore deposits are 60% titanium, 20% precious gems, *5% iron*, 5%  precious metals and 10% various other ores.  There are *no coal or oil  deposits*.



Questions: What are the "people" made of? What do they eat? Are there any other animals? Are there any plants? How is the oxygen and ozone produced?


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## Bloggsworth (Aug 26, 2012)

"Ore deposits are 60% titanium, 20% precious gems, 5% iron, 5% precious metals and 10% various other ores.  There are no coal or oil deposits"

If that were the case, then the planet would be either too young to support life or for life to have started, and that supposes that non-carbon based life-forms could exist. Given that none of the discovered stars and star systems indicate that there are any that do not have carbon as a constituent, then the no coal, no oil, part of your premise is unlikely.


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## rainen (Aug 27, 2012)

The planet was artificially created from materials (other planets,  asteroids, comets, meteors)  in the system.  The physiology is similar  to humans but they're generally taller and they have black hair, green  eyes, and slightly grayed skin. The oceans are populated with massive  amounts of flora and fauna mimicking that of a prehistoric earth and  there are two large jungles, one on each of the larger continents, which  are inhabited in a sort of elfish fashion.  Power is generated using  mystic essence and there are various farms which provide food on the two  larger continents.  

Hope this fills in any leftover voids.


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## Cran (Aug 27, 2012)

> The physiology is similar  to humans


And does the mystic essence counter their tendency to anemia? 
Or is their blood oxygen not transported via hemoglobin?

If the planet was artificially created, then the evolution of its life, and its civilisation, did not originate on this planet. Someone's level of technology was sufficiently advanced to build planets. From that point, the level of technology of the colonists, and how it would advance, is whatever you want it to be.


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## rainen (Aug 27, 2012)

Cran said:


> From that point, the level of technology of the colonists, and how it would advance, is whatever you want it to be.


  And so here I am.  My goal is to create a level of technology that is advance but realistic.

The essence doesn't exactly counter or prevent things, but it can be used to repair damage and even replace lost parts; assuming you have the right tools and abilities that is.  It is also possible to remove matter of any kind from the body assuming the person doing so is talented enough to be able to focus on the desired particles.  Another possibility of magic is to create a portal that (dis)allows specific types of matter to pass.


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## Cran (Aug 27, 2012)

OK - titanium-based industry. High strength to weight ratio. High corrosion resistance. Cannot be melted in the presence of oxygen or nitrogen - will burn first, forming _titanium dioxide_ (white pigment powder) or _titanium nitride_ (brittle solid) respectively. Low electrical and thermal conductivity; so titanium radiators and electric grids are not likely. It is non-toxic. 

Most applications involving titanium metal are in the form of alloys - the most common is Ti 6Al4V (90% titanium, 6% aluminium, 4% vanadium); it's used in aerospace, high-performance automotive, and medical applications.

....

Precious gems - diamonds? (high-pressure form of carbon)
rubies and sapphires? (aluminium* oxides) Of course, with abundant titanium, star rubies and star sapphires should be common. 

*On Earth, aluminium is more abundant than iron.


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## rainen (Aug 28, 2012)

So would it be more realistic for their technology to be on a larger scale or a smaller scale?  Would cities be large spread out areas or a massive network of buildings?  What would transportation look like? Vehicles or some sort of mass transit?  

I'm not trying to figure out how their resources function.  I'm trying to figure out a reasonable form for their technology to take and nothing I've been able to come up with on my own feels right.

Although I was just thinking: You brought up a very good point with the gems.  Gems play a very important role in the channeling of magic so the natural formation of those would be an important factor.

Another thought, could titanium "beaches" (made from titanium dioxide) be naturally occurring or not?


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## Cran (Aug 28, 2012)

rainen said:


> So would it be more realistic for their technology to be on a larger scale or a smaller scale?  Would cities be large spread out areas or a massive network of buildings?  What would transportation look like? Vehicles or some sort of mass transit?


 All of these depend upon the geography. You have three equatorial continents on a planet with a *diameter* _twice the size_ of Earth. 

Twice the diameter = 4x the surface area = 8x the volume. If we assume similar densities, then it also means 8x the surface gravity. 8g is going to seriously limit geophysical and biological dimensions on land, and any desire for air transport. If we assume a significantly lower density, then the surface structural integrity is seriously compromised, and your continents won't survive. Either way, mountains will be laughable - barely hills in our estimation. 

At 55% land, that means roughly 7 and a third times the total land area of Earth; in terms of pure space, a 10 billion population is not a problem. The issue will be the amount of arable land in a relatively water-reduced planet. Population centres and agriculture will concentrate around sources of potable water (rivers and lakes) and along the northern and southern coastlines where rain is more likely to fall. The only other sources of fresh water - the polar ice caps - may be mined and transported by sea, but again it would be the coastal fringes of the continents which would benefit most. 

Even the smallest continent will have large inland deserts, and if the three continents are close enough together, then the smaller central continent will get even less rain. 

Assuming the technology, then cross-continental travel will be easiest by mass transit tube, and inter-continental travel by sea. High-rise cities would not be likely - too much bother against the gravity and/or geological instabilities - as long as arable land is maintained, cities would tend to be low and spreading. White surfaces would be common. 

Intra- and inter-urban mass transport would be likely. Personal transport, probably, and more probably in the outer populated areas and rural districts. Transport would be designed to minimise drag and friction. 

What about air transport? Apart from the difficulty of lifting any mass against 8g is what that gravity does to an atmosphere similar to Earth's. Barometric pressure of up to 8 atm (assuming a relative increase of atmosphere compared to Earth's) at sea level, and a troposphere reduced to less than 2 mi. The added pressure will add to lift, assuming a portable energy source enough to move the craft, and above 2 mi, the drag will certainly be reduced. The turbulence, however, would be like taking off and landing in a hurricane, or in a field of tornados.   

The civilisation - if at all aggressive - would likely develop energy weapons rather than particle weapons; lasers before rockets; implosives rather than explosives. 

The broad-based energy supply - either needs a low-resistance (ie, not titanium) delivery grid for electricity, or another form of energy with comparable properties. 




> Although I was just thinking: You brought up a very good point with the gems.  Gems play a very important role in the channeling of magic so the natural formation of those would be an important factor.


Then the planet will need deep sources of carbon (for diamond), and aluminium (for ruby, sapphire and emerald). 



> Another thought, could titanium "beaches" (made from titanium dioxide) be naturally occurring or not?


Found in mineral sands deposits (including past and present beach sands) as _rutile_. The natural crystals range in colour from white through yellow to red (red can indicate the presence of iron; as it does in the other common titanium mineral _ilminite_).


> Rutile, when present in large enough quantities in beach sands, forms an important constituent of heavy mineral sands ore deposits. Miners extract and separate the valuable minerals (typically rutile, zircon, and ilmenite). The main uses for rutile are the manufacture of refractory ceramic, as a pigment, and for the production of titanium metal.
> Finely powdered rutile is a brilliant white pigment and is used in paints, plastics, paper,  foods, and other applications that call for a bright white color.  Titanium dioxide pigment is the single greatest use of titanium  worldwide. Nanoscale particles of rutile are transparent to visible light but are highly effective in the absorption of ultraviolet  radiation. The UV absorption of nano-sized rutile particles is  blue-shifted compared to bulk rutile, so that higher energy UV light is  absorbed by the nanoparticles. Hence, they are used in sunscreens to protect against UV induced skin damage.
> Small rutile needles present in gems are responsible for an optical phenomenon known as asterism. Asterated gems are known as "star" gems. Star sapphires, star rubies, and other "star" gems are highly sought after and often more valuable than their normal equivalents.
> Rutile is widely used as a welding electrode covering.


-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutile


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## rainen (Aug 28, 2012)

That was all perfect. Thank you so much for all of it!  I think I'm going to have to make some major changes to the planet.  I _was_ planning on having gravity higher then that of earth but I didn't realize 8g would cause so many issues.  Would 2g be good with making the planet about 2x the volume of Earth instead?  

Also,  I was thinking of having massive underground rivers that flow beneath the continents which would literally create a world of their own.  Lakes, unique fauna and unique flora would all be included in addition to things like hot springs where the rivers flow near volcanoes.  

As for the deserts, I do admit I hadn't thought that one over completely.  The small continent is just a massive city state so it doesn't matter as much if it's a desert.  I'm thinking have the two large continents above and below the main continent so that they're situated in the tropical regions.


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## Cran (Aug 29, 2012)

rainen said:


> That was all perfect. Thank you so much for all of it!  I think I'm going to have to make some major changes to the planet.  I _was_ planning on having gravity higher then that of earth but I didn't realize 8g would cause so many issues.  Would 2g be good with making the planet about 2x the volume of Earth instead?


OK - 2x volume = ~1.4x surface area = ~1.2x diameter
Total land area = ~ 105 million sq mi = ~1.85x total land area of Earth.
2g* = ~ 2atm at sea level, with the equatorial tropopause (top of the troposphere) at about 6 mi altitude. 
Highest mountains - because you don't have any fresh continent-continent collisions going on, your highest mountain chains (and volcanoes) will be bordering subduction zones, with highest peaks ~16,500 ft, or a little over 3 mi above sea level - respectable, but not spectacular.   

*For comparison, the gravity at the cloud ceiling of Jupiter is ~2.5g.



> Also,  I was thinking of having massive underground rivers that flow beneath the continents which would literally create a world of their own.  Lakes, unique fauna and unique flora would all be included in addition to things like hot springs where the rivers flow near volcanoes.


 Major karstic systems form in chemically soluble rocks - like _limestone_ and _dolomite_ (carbonates - you see why carbon is so important?), and some minor karsts are found in gypsum and anhydrite (sulfates). Open underground rivers, lakes, cavern systems, etc, are all karstic in nature. 

Volcanic pipes and chambers can fill with water, but these are very limited in scope. 

There are also sedimentary channels beneath past and present surface river systems that are called underground rivers, however they are more like narrow aquifers - you can't walk their banks, and the biota are microscopic. 

Any of these underground systems can be found under deserts, assuming the right materials, and a surface catchment and recharge regime. Some will reach the surface as sinkholes or oases, and/or in a terminal inland lake - the former are usually fresh water, and the latter are always very salty. 

Hot springs don't need to be near volcanoes, although they are most common in volcanic fields; hot springs and seeps can also form from very deep artesian basins. Either way, the water is not drinkable with high levels of dissolved mineral salts. 



> As for the deserts, I do admit I hadn't thought that one over completely.  The small continent is just a massive city state so it doesn't matter as much if it's a desert.  I'm thinking have the two large continents above and below the main continent so that they're situated in the tropical regions.


Assuming a polar rotation, the large continents are going to extend beyond the tropics and well into the temperate zones, if not the polar circles - remember, each of the two large continents would be like Pangaea; nearly 90% of all of Earth's land in one continent - Eurasia + North and South America + Africa in a single landmass; and you'll have two of them. Like Pangaea, they will still be mostly deserts, with the highest concentrations of life along well-watered coastal fringes.  

The capital / city state / central island would still be hot and humid, with either monsoonal winds or doldrums, depending upon the time of year.

Population densities would be comparable to mid-twentieth century Earth, and the technology trends would still move in the directions mentioned previously, although air travel would not be quite so dangerous (and therefore less restricted to "no other choice"). 

Solid missile and particle weapons would still be hampered - think half the range of ours, or twice the energy required to achieve the range of ours; blades, rams and hammers would still have been preferred to thrown spears and arrows or catapults.


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## Staff Deployment (Aug 29, 2012)

The Backward OX said:


> Apropos of nothing, the inside of my throat's held together with titanium staples.



That's pretty cool! My spine is about 50% titanium. Or rather, titanium alloy. So a much lower percentage due to a bunch of other metals in there that I don't really know.

Oh dammit now I'm thinking about it aaaah it's like tongue awareness month all over again


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## rainen (Aug 29, 2012)

Cran said:


> OK - 2x volume = ~1.4x surface area = ~1.2x diameter
> Total land area = ~ 105 million sq mi = ~1.85x total land area of Earth.
> 2g* = ~ 2atm at sea level, with the equatorial tropopause (top of the troposphere) at about 6 mi altitude.
> Highest mountains - because you don't have any fresh continent-continent collisions going on, your highest mountain chains (and volcanoes) will be bordering subduction zones, with highest peaks ~16,500 ft, or a little over 3 mi above sea level - respectable, but not spectacular.


 I left out an important bit of info.  The northern continent is on 2 tectonic plates and interact in the same was as India and the rest of Asia. The total age of the planet is about 50 million years old and this interaction has gone on for the past 40 million years.  This mountain range cuts through at about the center of the continent and there are various hotspots within the chain that form volcanoes.



Cran said:


> Major karstic systems form in chemically soluble rocks - like _limestone_ and _dolomite_ (carbonates - you see why carbon is so important?), and some minor karsts are found in gypsum and anhydrite (sulfates).


Carbon deposits now make up 15% of all deposits. 


Cran said:


> Hot springs don't need to be near volcanoes, although they are most common in volcanic fields; hot springs and seeps can also form from very deep artesian basins. Either way, the water is not drinkable with high levels of dissolved mineral salts.


  The hot springs would serve as a sort of underground resort so that's fine.  I'm trying to stay away from the zero culture alien model.



Cran said:


> Assuming a polar rotation, the large continents are going to extend beyond the tropics and well into the temperate zones, if not the polar circles - remember, each of the two large continents would be like Pangaea; nearly 90% of all of Earth's land in one continent - Eurasia + North and South America + Africa in a single landmass; and you'll have two of them. Like Pangaea, they will still be mostly deserts, with the highest concentrations of life along well-watered coastal fringes.


 This slipped my mind.  I think I can make it work just fine though.


Cran said:


> Solid missile and particle weapons would still be hampered - think half the range of ours, or twice the energy required to achieve the range of ours; blades, rams and hammers would still have been preferred to thrown spears and arrows or catapults.



Weapons are magical in nature so that's a non-issue.


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## Cran (Aug 29, 2012)

rainen said:


> I left out an important bit of info.  The northern continent is on 2 tectonic plates and interact in the same was as India and the rest of Asia. The total age of the planet is about 50 million years old and this interaction has gone on for the past 40 million years.  This mountain range cuts through at about the center of the continent and there are various hotspots within the chain that form volcanoes.


I don't recall any active volcanoes in the Himalayan convergence zone - once the subduction zone is overrun, andesitic volcanism stops. Plume hot spots would have a tough time penetrating a double-layer slab; most hot spots are intraplate, with Iceland the only real example of a hot spot coincident with a divergence zone. 

Elevations are quite different on either side of continent-continent convergences - think Tibetan Plateau; thinner air (we'd probably find it comfortable). Highest young peaks would be about 18,000 ft, very sharp and dangerous to climb (especially when things fall twice as fast as they do on Earth). 



> Weapons are magical in nature so that's a non-issue.


Didn't you say that not everyone can use magic? - hence the need for technology. Or, are you going to set up an industry of magical weapon-makers marketing to the mundane masses? Will there be a sale on gravity-defying bullets?


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## rainen (Aug 29, 2012)

Ah...  That'll make one arc in my story a tad bit difficult.  I'll have the volcanoes be of a magical nature then.

As for the weapons, no official research has gone into non-magical weaponry so the level of technology in that aspect would be incredibly basic.  Also, when I say magical in nature I mean things like spells and curses.  While things such as antigrav bullets are possible, they are not very effective.  Weapons would take the form of things used to restrict and stop movement, instead of causing damage to another (binding curse if you will).  Then of course standard spells like fireballs and ice daggers are also easily possible.  The only sort of enchanted weaponry are swords and the only one that tends to use them is the main character.


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## Cran (Aug 29, 2012)

rainen said:


> Ah...  That'll make one arc in my story a tad bit difficult.  I'll have the volcanoes be of a magical nature then.


That depends - do you want a chain of volcanoes, or do you want a chain of volcanic mountains?

For a chain of volcanoes dividing a continent, don't converge two landmasses; begin to split one. Divergence zones begin as a Y shaped rift system (from a triple junction).

East Africa volcanoes [This Dynamic Earth, USGS]  (diagram showing East African volcanic rift)

This valley is dotted with volcanoes, each of which _can be unique in size, activity and debris_.  

NASA - East African Rift Valley in Kenya
NASA image showing a portion of East Africa Rift geography - from old, dead volcano to young, new volcano; linear faulting and fault-stepping; isolated trapped valleys which manage to collect enough water to sustain plant life ...



> Main  African volcanic activities are situated along the Great Rift Valley, a  hundreds of kilometres wide depression, which spans from Mozambique in  the south to Valley of Jordan in the north, 6500 km long. About 80 % of  the volcanoes are found alongside or within the Great Rift Valley. These  are one of the most spectacular but least-known volcanoes on the  planet. In the past 150 years, more than 110 eruptions have been  reported from 18 locations, while another 112 volcanoes have been  diagnosed as potentially active.
> 
> Most southerly volcanic fields are  dominated by three massifs, of which the greatest is Kilimanjaro  (Shining Mountain), 6 000 cu km of lavas and pyroclastics that tower to 5  967 m above sea level. Neighbouring Mt. Meru (the Black Mountain, 4  568m) appears but a modest companion...
> 
> Twice  in the 1980s (at Lake Monoun in 1984 and Lake Nyos in 1986), clouds of  carbon dioxide unexpectedly escaped from the lake water and, being  heavier than air, they rolled downslope close to the ground, before  dissipating into the atmosphere. Together, the silent, deadly clouds  suffocated more than 1700 people and hundreds of cattle and wild  animals. The volcanoes were not obviously active


-http://www.volcano.20m.com/catalog.html

For a volcanic mountain chain or mountain range, you need an active subduction zone - most of these are found in the so-called Ring of Fire around the Pacific Ocean, with an arm extending into the Indian Ocean (Indonesia). 



> As for the weapons, no official research has gone into non-magical weaponry *so the level of technology in that aspect would be incredibly basic.*  Also, when I say magical in nature I mean things like spells and curses.  While things such as antigrav bullets are possible, they are not very effective.  Weapons would take the form of things used to restrict and stop movement, instead of causing damage to another (binding curse if you will).  Then of course standard spells like fireballs and ice daggers are also easily possible.  The only sort of enchanted weaponry are swords and the only one that tends to use them is the main character.


It was the basic stuff I was referring to. Whether or not large scale battles involving ordinary armies take place in the story, it's likely that they would have occurred in their history. The weapons developed for and from them would more likely be close quarters weapons rather than projectiles; the same is true for siege weapons (rams and drills, rather than catapults and arbalests). How advanced these weapons have become (eg, subsonic pulse rams, seismic hammers, mechanical moles, lasers, implode mines, etc) would depend on the overall advancement of the civilisation.


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