# What is a soul made of?



## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

The past couple weeks I have been struggling with my perception of the universe. My mind has been frantic. There is no other place to express my ideas that is more appropriate than here. You may find what I am about so say very silly; however, I cannot stop thinking about it, this universe. Then all of a sudden this concept entered my mind. My whole life I have felt as if I do not belong in this universe. This lead to questions and questions and desires and desires... Truth, yes truth. Does it exist? Anyways, here is what entered my mind. Why do I feel as if i am in the wrong universe? Our bodies are made of basic elements that are found in the stars: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, ect. Yes, our bodies are of this universe indeed! We are more then body though. No doubt, there exists something more than the body. A soul, spirit, consciousness, whatever you wish to call it. Something other then this body exists inside of us. Why do people feel so attached to their body? Think about it, what is a soul made of. A soul is not made of anything our body is made of. We can't measure or see our soul, but we can feel it.... Our soul isn't in the third dimension, XYZ.... Could it be my friends, could it be.... That our soul is not of this universe? What is your soul made of? I cannot stop thinking of this. If our soul is from another universe then why are we one with our body here on earth? Questions I believe can be answered. Is it possible that our soul is in another dimension, and we are living in joint within that dimension, only staggering around with our body until it fades away. If this is the case, that means our soul will still be there when our body fades away. Another dimension... What is your soul made of? Beautiful if you think of it. There is more to this life then atoms of carbon and hydrogen, for that is just our bodies. If you want to truly learn about all of existence, ask yourself, "What is a soul made of?". This universe is just a mere moment in the scheme of everything. How many dimensions are there, how many is our soul in? What is a soul made of? I had to put my thoughts into words, because if I hadn't I might have forgotten. If you read all this, I thank you


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

a person is designed from the 4 elements. your soul is "fire".


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

Fire has oxygen, fire is of this universe. Our soul, however, has none of those elements.


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> Fire has oxygen, fire is of this universe. Our soul, however, has none of those elements.



how do you know? have you ever dissected a piece of your own and had it scientifically analyzed?


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

I believe I could ask you the same question.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Dec 15, 2015)

Okay guys, let's see if we can keep this civil, cool?


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> I believe I could ask you the same question.



the last time i dissected a piece of my soul? i fried it crispy in butter and swallowed it with a vodka chaser. 
damnit. i should have had that shit analyzed.


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

mrmustard615 said:


> Okay guys, let's see if we can keep this civil, cool?



i'm just playing around. i believe in the soul. when i die? and the morgue carries my corpse off? won't no one
say..."there goes dale."...they'll say...."there goes dale's body". it's like people instinctively know that there is
more to a person than the flesh. and they instinctively know that the flesh part of us is only the carriage we ride on
for awhile.


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## Terry D (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> The past couple weeks I have been struggling with my perception of the universe. My mind has been frantic. There is no other place to express my ideas that is more appropriate than here. You may find what I am about so say very silly; however, I cannot stop thinking about it, this universe. Then all of a sudden this concept entered my mind. My whole life I have felt as if I do not belong in this universe. This lead to questions and questions and desires and desires... Truth, yes truth. Does it exist? Anyways, here is what entered my mind. Why do I feel as if i am in the wrong universe? Our bodies are made of basic elements that are found in the stars: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, ect. Yes, our bodies are of this universe indeed! We are more then body though. No doubt, there exists something more than the body. A soul, spirit, consciousness, whatever you wish to call it. Something other then this body exists inside of us. Why do people feel so attached to their body? Think about it, what is a soul made of. A soul is not made of anything our body is made of. We can't measure or see our soul, but we can feel it.... Our soul isn't in the third dimension, XYZ.... Could it be my friends, could it be.... That our soul is not of this universe? What is your soul made of? I cannot stop thinking of this. If our soul is from another universe then why are we one with our body here on earth? Questions I believe can be answered. Is it possible that our soul is in another dimension, and we are living in joint within that dimension, only staggering around with our body until it fades away. If this is the case, that means our soul will still be there when our body fades away. Another dimension... What is your soul made of? Beautiful if you think of it. There is more to this life then atoms of carbon and hydrogen, for that is just our bodies. If you want to truly learn about all of existence, ask yourself, "What is a soul made of?". This universe is just a mere moment in the scheme of everything. How many dimensions are there, how many is our soul in? What is a soul made of? I had to put my thoughts into words, because if I hadn't I might have forgotten. If you read all this, I thank you



You could do some research into noetic science. There was a controversial experiment conducted a few years ago in which the scientist claimed to be able to weigh the human soul.


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## bazz cargo (Dec 15, 2015)

I suppose I will find out when I die, the last great adventure.

I don't have an answer, but I wish you luck on your journey.

BC


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## Firemajic (Dec 15, 2015)

IMO.. the soul is undefinable ... the essence of you, distilled.. a part of you, yet separate, unbound by the laws of physics, science or religion ...something like that... anyway...


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

we could actually take this into "writing mode" on the subject. *gasp. dale please don't. this is a writer's forum*
but i've always felt like my fiction was simply an extension of my own reality. i've never believed it to be "lies".
and i think my "fiction" is my soul crying out. it's real on a level that can't really be defined through physics.


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## Bishop (Dec 15, 2015)

Your soul is a subset and a side-effect of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain

Your personality, thoughts, and experiences coupled with your advanced (by biological standards) ability to gain sentience are the formation of what a lot of people call a "soul". 

The universe is the only one we know of at this time, and if you start talking parallels, then you cross from the realm of astrophysics into the realm of total speculation. The universe is made up of galaxies, which are made up of billions of stars, many of which have planetary bodies in their orbit, of which we are the third of within the Sol system. The scope is large, the distances and certainties mysterious, but all of it is knowable.


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## RhythmOvPain (Dec 15, 2015)

The soul is an intangible manifestation of your consciousness trapped in a corporeal vessel.

If you believe that garbage.


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

there is no such thing as art without the soul.


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

There is no way to prove or disprove my thought. For I talk of the unobservable universe, to base your logic of reasoning on the measurements of the observable universe in order to counter an argument based on the unobservable universe will not work.


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## Blade (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> There is no way to prove or disprove my thought. For I talk of the unobservable universe, to base your logic of reasoning on the measurements of the observable universe in order to counter an argument based on the unobservable universe will not work.



A simple case of either/or, knowledge of the unobservable universe is simply speculation otherwise it would be in the realm of the observable.:cookie:


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> There is no way to prove or disprove my thought. For I talk of the unobservable universe, to base your logic of reasoning on the measurements of the observable universe in order to counter an argument based on the unobservable universe will not work.



the unobservable becomes observable when you create it. painting, music, writing, sculpture, 
etc....all these things are the essence of the soul.


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

I cannot get myself to believe that the soul is merely a creation of the mind. How can humans hope? If everything was based on the reasoning of the brain and mind, then why can we hope and strive in the midst of bad circumstances and dream and envision things that we have not yet seen. Animals have brains and bodies, but do they have this element of being that we humans have? This is the soul.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 15, 2015)

Everyone is free to think as they wish in these matters. 

I cast my lot with Robert Ingersoll, the great skeptic of the 19th Century. What we call a soul is a manifestation of the chemicals and electrical signals in our brains. That it feels like more than that is down to both the excellence and terribleness of our thinking machines.

To speculate about that which by definition cannot be observed is of no use to me in my life; it may make for a good story, and I have enjoyed both consuming and creating stories of such a type, but I do not bow to the unknowable. However charming a story may be, the observed universe persuades me that I did not exist for eons, I was born and have existed for the span of my life, and I shall die and cease to exist forevermore. This reality does not disturb me.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 15, 2015)

I respectfully disagree with the notion of a soul as an entity distinct from our physical selves, but I don't disagree with dale's observations about the nature of art and what we call a soul:



dale said:


> there is no such thing as art without the soul.





dale said:


> the unobservable becomes observable when you create it. painting, music, writing, sculpture,
> etc....all these things are the essence of the soul.


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

for all those who don't believe in "the soul"? i kind of like to collect them so if you don't want yours? 
just quote this post and type "bbb" in the box and post it. i'll go ahead and take that off your hands.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 15, 2015)

dale said:


> for all those who don't believe in "the soul"? i kind of like to collect them so if you don't want yours?
> just quote this post and type "bbb" in the box and post it. i'll go ahead and take that off your hands.



Dude, you should transact your soul purchases via PM. Speaking of which, send me your offer. :friendly_wink:


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## Mesafalcon (Dec 15, 2015)

The soul is made up from the human imagination.

It is just a concept to describe someones personality, their will to live, essentailly _who they are_.

Dale, that was kind of funny... tell me how I can give you my soul and you can have it. I have not found a use for it in my life yet.


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

InstituteMan said:


> Dude, you should transact your soul purchases via PM. Speaking of which, send me your offer. :friendly_wink:



lol. kind of a cool concept for a story though, ain't it? a muther fucker with occult knowledge
who just skips around the internet like a mad faery and collects souls by tricking people into
giving them to him like that? ha ha


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

Once again, I suppose that is the escape goat. The soul, apart of the unobservable universe, not of this universe, is easy to cast as a figment of humans imagination. While I value everyone's opinions, to justify that something of the unobservable universe doesn't exists based on logic and reasoning of the observable universe is not what I would define as finite truth.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> While I value everyone's opinions, to justify that something of the unobservable universe doesn't exists based on logic and reasoning of the observable universe is not what I would define as finite truth.



Fair enough. We all get to define our own internal truth.


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

Allow me to shed some insight on why the way some of you are thinking may not be absolute. A computer. Inside a computer is its own universe with software, programs, and data. One day the Program asks the other Program, "You know, I have this job and this code in me. Where did the idea come from though. Is the algorithm not of this universe?". The other program replies, "Silly program, the idea of this algorithm is just a figment of your imagination. The reason you do what you do is because of the code and binary that tells the computer what to do. There is nothing out of this universe in you". Meanwhile, the programmer, outside the computer, in his/her mind developed the algorithm for that program to run off of. You may not understand this example, but it serves its purpose. Just because we can observe and study the universe, doesn't mean there isn't a trace or object of something not in our recognized universe. Your soul is the algorithm of that program I was talking about. No way to prove or disprove. Speculation does not mean I am wrong. But it does not mean I am right. Open your mind to broader thinking.


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## dale (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> Open your mind to broader thinking.



that could cause weight gain and obesity. before you know it? i'll be a 46 year old fat ass sitting on a couch
with a bag of chips on his lap watching soccer and rooting for the opposing team.


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## Blade (Dec 15, 2015)

dale said:


> that could cause weight gain and obesity. before you know it? i'll be a 46 year old fat ass sitting on a couch
> with a bag of chips on his lap watching soccer and rooting for the opposing team.



That's not 'broader thinking' but 'broader sinking'.:indecisiveness: Besides you will still be stuck with the paradox of how the 'opposing team' became so.:dejection:


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## LOLeah (Dec 15, 2015)

I think it's made of energy. Thinking this along with the fact that energy cannot be destroyed once created, only moved or changed, has influenced my ideas about the after life. There are endless possibilities and this comforts me. One of those possibilities is that when we die our soul energy is simply absorbed into the atmosphere. Not as appealing as the idea of reincarnation. Lol


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## InstituteMan (Dec 15, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> Allow me to shed some insight on why the way some of you are thinking may not be absolute. A computer. Inside a computer is its own universe with software, programs, and data. One day the Program asks the other Program, "You know, I have this job and this code in me. Where did the idea come from though. Is the algorithm not of this universe?". The other program replies, "Silly program, the idea of this algorithm is just a figment of your imagination. The reason you do what you do is because of the code and binary that tells the computer what to do. There is nothing out of this universe in you". Meanwhile, the programmer, outside the computer, in his/her mind developed the algorithm for that program to run off of. You may not understand this example, but it serves its purpose. Just because we can observe and study the universe, doesn't mean there isn't a trace or object of something not in our recognized universe. Your soul is the algorithm of that program I was talking about. No way to prove or disprove. Speculation does not mean I am wrong. But it does not mean I am right. Open your mind to broader thinking.




This is brings to my mind a short story by Roger Zelazny. I believe the name of it is _The Force the through the Circuit Drives the Current._ It's worth looking up.

My issue with the computer software thought experiment is that computer programs have access to input and output devices that would, should the program be sentient, allow it to interact with the world outside of the computer. Our telescopes and particle accelerators are our input/output devices.


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

The devices we have now. Who knows, maybe someday we will have different input devices


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## LeeC (Dec 15, 2015)

Are you thinking just in terms of humans, or do you believe that other life forms have "souls" also? After all, we're but variations on a theme of physical life, evolving in differing forms to counterbalance each other in the web-of-life. Otherwise physical being would extinguish itself since physical life is fueled by life. 

As far as "soul," I think of it as an inner depth of self-awareness, and the difference between such and your software example is simply a matter of scale. We're not at the point yet of developing AI to anywhere near our own circuitry. If we get to that point, how could we tell the difference between the created robots and our biobot selves ;-)


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## YoungScholar (Dec 15, 2015)

Good point  I guess any lifeform with that complexity. I don't think any on earth that I have seen other than humans have souls, at least at the moment of my knowledge. Here is something else to think about. Telescopes really do limit what we see. Think of a pond with fish. No matter how far into the pond the fish look, it will only see a pond. What if the fish could jump out the pond though and see the rest of the world. Up to that point the pond was the only universe to the fish. Just don't be close-minded, that's all I am saying everyone


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## BobtailCon (Dec 15, 2015)

A "soul" is someone's purview of a being's consciousness and personality, ultimately. The transcendence to another realm, spiritual or mulit-universal is another topic, really.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Dec 15, 2015)

We have no idea what, or how many dimensions we exactly we exist within. Matrix-style, our reality is only what our senses tell us. We do not have senses to detect anything else. We do have imagination, and I'm thankful that we are the only living things capable of such deep thought. 

We still don't have a way to explain how we move at the molecular level. Technically, nothing should be able to move. Much less think.So, I do think we have something we cannot detect or measure. It's there, we just can't sense it or use a device to find it. 

I believe we were meant to be attached to our bodies. People with separation disorders are just scary. That's not natural. 

In the Bible, Adam was described as a 'living soul.' And he was only told that he would return to the dust when he died. Nothing more, nothing less. Would God lie?  Ecc 9:5 says that the dead know nothing. In other translations: "The dead are not conscious of anything at all." Clear as crystal. And that's still from the old testament. The serpent told Eve that, despite what God said, she ' will not die.' Wouldn't he want people to believe that they will never die? Wouldn't he spread that belief intentionally? 

I do believe we are more than flesh. Something keeps us alive. According to the 'laws,' physical matter shouldn't move on it's own or be conscious. Yeah.

But we're inside of our bodies. We die with them and return to the dust. 

Regardless of what you believe, my senses have made it so that I enjoy Earth. I would miss eating, drinking. The grass under my feet, and drawing and creating. Writing. 

Do the beings in higher dimensions have fiction novels..? xD 

Ascension is something I do not desire.  I like it here. On the ground.


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## escorial (Dec 16, 2015)

the soul is just a word I use poeticly or in times of doubt...I don't think it's anything other than a religious tool used for indoctrination


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## Firemajic (Dec 16, 2015)

I believe in the Bible, and what is written there.. and it says in the Bible that when we die, the soul goes back to God, who gave it... if we had no soul, we would be no different than a maggot feeding on a rotten carcass... JMHO...


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## JustRob (Dec 16, 2015)

In my novel (For heaven's sake give it a rest Rob!) (What, you want me to do so for the sake of something which may not exist? Let's not digress.) it is discovered that a machine, the workings of which are incomprehensible, is actually just an interface to something else even more incomprehensible. Maybe that's exactly where we are regarding the soul.

Science may prove that all human activity can be attributed to things happening inside our brains, but that doesn't prove that that is the whole story. It may be true that modifying the brain can influence behaviour, but that doesn't prove that the behaviour originates entirely within that brain. That reasoning would be like saying that deleting Spotify from one's computer stops it playing lots of music, so that music must originate within the computer. I have this very morning been reading stuff about quantum biology and the weird possibilities that it introduces. This is currently leading edge thinking and until someone nails it down the jury must still be out even in the hard scientific community about concepts like the soul. Maybe we are only just now on the threshold of truly understanding the nature of our own reality.

Our fiction is to a great extent, as it has always been, conjecture about possible future realities. So, if quantum theorists ever came up with a definition of the soul which seemed to fit perceptions of its nature pretty well, would some people still insist that there was more to it than that, more than we could ever comprehend? Maybe you see the problem here, that humanity needs to believe that there is "something else" to have hope, no matter how much is already known for sure. I guess that's the underlying theme of my novel as well in a way, that there must always be something else for the human spirit to endure.

Here's a test question then. Does Sherlock Holmes have a soul? He was conceived within another real person's mind, but we are all physically conceived within another real person's body, so why should that matter? Whatever he is, he may well be immortal and is certainly non-corporeal, which seems to fit the definition quite well, and if the soul is as some claim just a manifestation of the brain then why can't a brain conceive or play host to more than one? He lives on in the minds of people, just as he was born that way. I remember a friend who died over fifty years ago at the age of sixteen. To my mind a part of his soul lives on as long as I do that. In considering the soul we have to bear in mind that it is not necessarily coalescent, but rather distributed, so in a way there is always something else to it somewhere else. We talk about a person's spirit living on. Is that really just a figure of speech?

I hope my rambling proves that there is a whole plane of ideas about such matters out there and it isn't just a matter of deciding which side of an arbitrary line any of us stands. There are just too many lines that could be drawn.


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## Kevin (Dec 16, 2015)

I was once in my dog's dream. I saw a vision of myself through her eye's in it. ... took me a while to figure out-- "Oh, that's _me_." Unexplainable...but that's what I experienced. Does that mean dogs have souls? I couldn't say, any more than I can say that we have.


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## Aquarius (Dec 16, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> . . . Why do I feel as if i am in the wrong universe? Our bodies are made of basic elements that are found in the stars: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, ect. Yes, our bodies are of this universe indeed! We are more then body though. No doubt, there exists something more than the body. A soul, spirit, consciousness, whatever you wish to call it. Something other then this body exists inside of us. . .



Dear Young Scholar,

If you have the feeling that you do not belong to this Universe, is there a possibility that you are not really querying your existence in this Universe but in our world? I believe that Earth life is a school, a place of learning and growing in wisdom and understanding. We are spirit and soul, who from time to time are merely temporarily encased in matter, our physical bodies, and take part in this world. 

Our physical body is the vehicle every spirit and soul needs to get about during its sojourns into that world. This body does not belong to us and has to be handed back to the Earth, in as good condition as possible. Your true home - and everybody else's - is not this world, but the world of light or spirit. That is the place all of us retreat to at the end of each lifetime. There we rest and recuperate until we are ready to for another. 

With love - Aquarius 

* * *​


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## YoungScholar (Dec 16, 2015)

I love this conversation.


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## Stormcat (Dec 16, 2015)

I am firmly of the mindset that "mind" and "Soul" are the exact same thing. Ever notice how one's mental health seems to improve with "soulful" activities like prayer, meditation, and happy conversations with friends? That is my proof that mind and soul are interchangeable.


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## Terry D (Dec 16, 2015)

I think you measure the soul of a creature by looking at its capacity to love selflessly. Not the demonstration of love, but the capacity for it. Many factors can impede loving behavior -- mental illness, social isolation, physical ailments -- but all of us humans (and many other species IMO) are born with the capacity to love without consideration for what we will get in return. That's the soul. It is a thing of this universe because it exists in this universe. However this universe was created, it is all we have and everything we experience is a part of it.


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## BobtailCon (Dec 16, 2015)

escorial said:


> the soul is just a word I use poeticly or in times of doubt...I don't think it's anything other than a religious tool used for indoctrination



I agree.


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## YoungScholar (Dec 16, 2015)

Love is what makes humans humans. Will a dog give its life for someone else knowing it won't get anything in return? You may say yes, but if there were a juicy tbone steak to the right and you were being killed to the left, 9/10 times it's going for the steak. Love is what shows we have a soul.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 16, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> Love is what makes humans humans. Will a dog give its life for someone else knowing it won't get anything in return? You may say yes, but if there were a juicy tbone steak to the right and you were being killed to the left, 9/10 times it's going for the steak. Love is what shows we have a soul.



I've had at least two dogs that would have died before seeing their humans harmed. They wouldn't have done that for just anyone, but they loved their people. When I was a little boy, my dog followed me around the farm and fought off all threats, from a rooster to large livestock (bulls and boars and, most dangerous of all, sows protecting their litters). A prankster who once ambushed me as a joke was nearly savaged before my father could drag the dog off. That dog would have left his dinner to look after me.

I don't think dogs have souls, but they can love selflessly.


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## Jigawatt (Dec 16, 2015)

Individuality and separateness is an illusion caused by experience and perspective. There is only one of us. Consciousness is the body singing a song of electrical harmony. With every electrical pulse, all the senses, the memories, random thoughts - all the physiological processes of our mind join in and play along. Awareness happens when everything is in harmony. Then, the body gets tired, the harmonization ceases, and consciousness is no longer present. We call this sleep or death. Our bodies are made of the same time, space, energy, and mass that makes up the whole of the Universe. Our bodies are the Universe having all these individual experiences. Every conscious being from an insect to a human has the right to declare, "I am the Universe." The idea of a soul is a manifestation of our need to self-preservate. Nothing within the Universe can preserve this experience of identity, nor save us from death, so we create belief systems called religions to help us cope with the concept of our own death.

I am the Universe writing this right now. And right now, the Universe is reading this from another perspective. There is only one of us. There has always been only one of us.

The soul is made of thought, just like any other fantasy.

Jigawatt


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## Mesafalcon (Dec 16, 2015)

escorial said:


> the soul is just a word I use poeticly or in times of doubt...I don't think it's anything other than a religious tool used for indoctrination



_I agree with this statement 100%._

Well played.


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## JustRob (Dec 17, 2015)

Stormcat said:


> I am firmly of the mindset that "mind" and "Soul" are the exact same thing.





escorial said:


> the soul is just a word I use poeticly or in times of doubt...I don't think it's anything other than a religious tool used for indoctrination



To my mind (or is it soul?) these remarks point to the fact that words carry baggage. While "soul" has religious connotations "mind" seems less biased. Do scientists use the word "mind" rather than "brain" though? Does even "mind" have some spiritual connotation? Perhaps people see the brain as being like a computer, a hard wired universally applicable device which is programmed with software, and the "mind" is somehow that software. I'm not aware that that is the truth. 

My understanding is that the brain has adaptable wiring, the neurons, which makes it more like the old electromechanical data processing devices from my earliest working days. The "programmes" for these machines were enormous heavy plugboards with modifiable wiring on them. Hence programming them was the equivalent of grafting a large chunk of brain matter onto an existing basic brain. This analogy leaves no concept of "mind" as separate from "brain" except in the physical structure of the brain with its higher and lower functioning regions. Hence I suspect that even use of the word "mind" has spiritual implications.

The word "religious" also carries baggage. It is used predominately to imply belief in one or more deities, but it can also simply imply deeply held beliefs. Anthropomorphisation (Good lord, is that really a word? On the other hand, is there really a good lord?) of these tenets into deities is just a common human trait and one could quite easily apply the word "religious" to the behaviour of scientists and mathematicians, as I have been known to do on more than one occasion. Every belief system has its axioms and the ones which endure can also be justified by applying their own criteria to themselves unsurprisingly. Every religion has its sceptics, its doubting Thomases, and conversely even science cannot claim to be solely the domain of sceptics. In fact religious fervour in science probably has and still does hold back its progress.

During my working career I was an active member of a group who encouraged people to define the meaning of the words that they used before they used them in serious discussion. So what is the minimal meaning of the word "soul" before anyone attaches any extra baggage to it? I would suggest that it simply means "that part of an individual which endures." That seems consistent with the way that we refer to someone who always adapts to the current situation without exhibiting any consistent character as "having no soul". No doubt in our writing some of us create such undefined characters. 

Where one takes it from there depends on one's personal belief system. For some people who believe that nothing whatsoever endures the word may have no meaning. I am not proposing these remarks as an end to the discussion but merely a logical beginning.


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## Terry D (Dec 17, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> Love is what makes humans humans. Will a dog give its life for someone else knowing it won't get anything in return? You may say yes, but if there were a juicy tbone steak to the right and you were being killed to the left, 9/10 times it's going for the steak. Love is what shows we have a soul.



This reflects a lack of understanding of, and experience with, dogs.


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## Aquarius (Dec 20, 2015)

YoungScholar said:


> . . . We are more then body though. No doubt, there exists something more than the body. A soul, spirit, consciousness, whatever you wish to call it. Something other then this body exists inside of us. . . .



You may find my offering of today in the 'Food For Thought' thread of interest. 

If so, here is a link:

'What Is Soul?'

With love - Aquarius

* * *​


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## Sonata (Dec 20, 2015)

My Father died from renal failure when he was just 63.  He had been in hospital for nine months before he died.

I used to take my young children to see their Grandpa every day and they knew how ill he was.

My daughter was five-years-old, my son just three-years-old when my Father died.

How do you explain a soul to a very young child?

OK, you are you.  Close your eyes and are you still you?  Yes?  Well the part of you that is you is your soul.

So when my Father died I just explained that the part of him that was inside his head, like yours was when you closed your eyes, that was his soul, even though his soul did not need his body any more.

And a five-year-old and a three-year-old understood and accepted it. A soul is the you when your eyes are closed.

Whether it had anything to our religion I do not know, but how else do you explain a soul to a young child and for them to understand death?


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## Aquarius (Dec 21, 2015)

That's as good a way of explaining soul as any. Young children are still very close to the world of spirit. That's why they understand many things of this nature much more easily than the adults around them.


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## ppsage (Dec 21, 2015)

Like the emperor's new clothes, soul is an illusory garment which I don against the vast of cosmic indifference to warm my self-importance. It was just hanging in my closet one day long ago. I find I can rarely put it away, much as I would. Namaskar.


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## Aquarius (Dec 22, 2015)

ppsage said:


> Like the emperor's new clothes, soul is an illusory garment which I don against the vast of cosmic indifference to warm my self-importance. It was just hanging in my closet one day long ago. I find I can rarely put it away, much as I would. Namaskar.



I perceive the tale of the emperor’s new clothes and the existence of our spirit and soul as being at the opposite ends of the spectrum of truth.

When asked what the emperor was wearing, the courtiers lied. Maybe that’s what they had to do because in the days when this parable was written, if they had told the truth they have had their heads chopped off. That could hardly be done to a child, who in all its innocence saw that the emperor was naked and wearing nothing.

Our spirit and soul however, although they are invisible and nobody can see them, they really do exist in each and every one of us. My life’s experience has shown that the more difficult life situations you have to master and the older you grow, the more you get in touch with and become aware of the presence of your spirit and soul, and its needs.

With love – Aquarius

* * *​


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

Aquarius said:


> I perceive the tale of the emperor’s new clothes and the existence of our spirit and soul as being at the opposite ends of the spectrum of truth.
> 
> When asked what the emperor was wearing, the courtiers lied. Maybe that’s what they had to do because in the days when this parable was written, if they had told the truth they have had their heads chopped off. That could hardly be done to a child, who in all its innocence saw that the emperor was naked and wearing nothing.
> 
> ...



i agree. people who have no belief in such things believe reality consists of the 5 human physical senses and no more,
even though there are other animals who have senses we don't have, such as a bat, which has a sonar sense. so it's
totally reasonable to me to understand that the 5 human physical senses are not the "holy grail" of even secular,
scientific reality.


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## BobtailCon (Dec 22, 2015)

dale said:


> i agree. people who have no belief in such things believe reality consists of the 5 human physical senses and no more,
> even though there are other animals who have senses we don't have, such as a bat, which has a sonar sense. so it's
> totally reasonable to me to understand that the 5 human physical senses are not the "holy grail" of even secular,
> scientific reality.



We have instruments to read those other senses. We don't have instruments to read the supernatural.


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

BobtailCon said:


> We have instruments to read those other senses. We don't have instruments to read the supernatural.



lol. so you think you need man-made machines to help you face that which you can't see?


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## LeeC (Dec 22, 2015)

Actually dale, simply to shed a little more light, many life forms have the same five senses we do, as you probably already knew  And, physical life being variations on a theme, most have all the same basic five senses though they may be employed in somewhat different ways. Beyond the five basic senses most also have the means to detect other stimuli such as temperature and pain.

What prompted me to note this is your mention of bat sonar. Such is a basic sense, albeit used differently. Bats emit high-pitched cries, then listen as the sound waves bounce off nearby objects—allowing the bats to find and eat tiny insects in the dark, among other things. What's interesting about this is in the various adaptations in the food chain some tiger moths are able to jam bat sonar with their own ultrasound blasts. 

I have to acknowledge though that I believe "sensing" the soul is more aspect of our mental circuitry, maybe even as a coping mechanism ;-) Everyone has a justifiable right to do so with all the twisting paths of life 

Take care


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

LeeC said:


> Actually dale, simply to shed a little more light, many life forms have the same five senses we do, as you probably already knew  And, physical life being variations on a theme, most have all the same basic five senses though they may be employed in somewhat different ways. Beyond the five basic senses most also have the means to detect other stimuli such as temperature and pain.
> 
> What prompted me to note this is your mention of bat sonar. Such is a basic sense, albeit used differently. Bats emit high-pitched cries, then listen as the sound waves bounce off nearby objects—allowing the bats to find and eat tiny insects in the dark, among other things. What's interesting about this is in the various adaptations in the food chain some tiger moths are able to jam bat sonar with their own ultrasound blasts.
> 
> ...



my point is....our sensory perception of "the soul" has always been there. it's been going on since the
 beginning of man. centuries and centuries and centuries. 'atheism" is basically the newest religion. 
and it offers nothing but chaos. spirituality brought forth agriculture, art, literature, architecture, 
philosophy, politics and civilization itself. atheism offers nothing to mankind except being a whipped dog. it's a regression.


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## LeeC (Dec 22, 2015)

Oh, I'm far from an atheist dale, as a naturalist I'm what you might think of as an agnostic knowing there's something much bigger out there, about which we know little so far. And, I certainly respect and have no intent of offending you and your beliefs  Whatever helps people feel happy and positive has to be a good thing  

I was just trying to be sociable, not argue progress, so peace bro. 

Happy trails


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

LeeC said:


> Oh, I'm far from an atheist dale, as a naturalist I'm what you might think of as an agnostic knowing there's something much bigger out there, about which we know little so far. And, I certainly respect and have no intent of offending you and your beliefs  Whatever helps people feel happy and positive has to be a good thing
> 
> I was just trying to be sociable, not argue progress, so peace bro.
> 
> Happy trails



and i'm not trying to offend you, either. but i get tired of these atheists who just think they are SOOOO intellectual
trying to say my beliefs are "primitive". well? you know what? the wheel is "primitive", too. but muther fuckers still
wanna cling to that, don't they?


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## LeeC (Dec 22, 2015)

Yes they do dale   Sorry I misunderstood you as my mind's been elsewhere.

My best to you and yours.


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

plus the FACT is? people like me who wanna defend their beliefs on subjects like this get
 thrown under the bus a lot on forums and such. i can't even count the times it's happened to me.
i argue a point in my favor? BOOM. i get banned or suspended. and i'm not talking about here.
this place has never suspended or banned me for my beliefs. they've just done it because i have
 this problem of being REALLY snarky and insulting when i do it. but i'm not trying to do that here.
i'm just trying to make the point that not all religious or spiritual people are stupid. i'm GONNA
defend that.


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## BobtailCon (Dec 22, 2015)

dale said:


> plus the FACT is? people like me who wanna defend their beliefs on subjects like this get
> thrown under the bus a lot on forums and such. i can't even count the times it's happened to me.
> i argue a point in my favor? BOOM. i get banned or suspended. and i'm not talking about here.
> this place has never suspended or banned me for my beliefs. they've just done it because i have
> ...



You're going off on any atheist who replies to you, but I don't think a single person has said that religious people are stupid.

No, atheism isn't a religion, no, atheism doesn't offer chaos. No, religion isn't the sole reason we have art, agriculture, etc. Those are from PEOPLE, religious or otherwise. May I remind you of the religious people who chiseled off the genitalia of pagan statues,  and replaced them with leaves?

I'm trying not to debate, but you're statements make it difficult.


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

BobtailCon said:


> You're going off on any atheist who replies to you, but I don't think a single person has said that religious people are stupid.
> 
> No, atheism isn't a religion, no, atheism doesn't offer chaos. No, religion isn't the sole reason we have art, agriculture, etc. Those are from PEOPLE, religious or otherwise. May I remind you of the religious people who chiseled off the genitalia of pagan statues,  and replaced them with leaves?
> 
> I'm trying not to debate, but you're statements make it difficult.



that's because you don't get that i'm not talking specifically about religion. i'm referring to spirituality. and atheism
IS a religion. it's just a humanist religion. it's man replacing the concept of god with animalistic desires. it's
basically man defining himself as god or a god and acting upon the impulse materialistically.


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## BobtailCon (Dec 22, 2015)

dale said:


> that's because you don't get that i'm not talking specifically about religion. i'm referring to spirituality. and atheism
> IS a religion. it's just a humanist religion. it's man replacing the concept of god with animalistic desires. it's
> basically man defining himself as god or a god and acting upon the impulse materialistically.



a·the·ism

ˈāTHēˌizəm/

noun

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

synonyms:nonbelief,*disbelief,*unbelief,*irreligion,skepticism,*doubt,*agnosticism;

nihilism

"atheism was not freely discussed in his community"


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## Joe_Bassett (Dec 22, 2015)

I'd argue differently about atheism.  It's not about making yourself god, it's about not having one. Atheists don't worship themselves otherwise they'd have a god and therefore be the exact opposite of an atheist. And atheists still have morals.  Buddhism is an atheistic philosophy which in some branches are very strict with their morals.  And Buddhism is not about self-service or materialism either, it's a very generous and community-oriented philosophy.

Anyways That's all I'm gonna say here. EVER.
Hiro out.


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

BobtailCon said:


> a·the·ism
> 
> ˈāTHēˌizəm/
> 
> ...



your "god" is mammon. your god is yourself. that is religion. you've been indoctrinated through bolshevik
ideals to believe man...as a puny non-cerebral animal...somehow has the capacity to do what he has done 
for thousands of years, without his concept of divinity. you can believe that all you want. but history has PROVEN
you wrong over and over again. without this concept of divinity? man is nothing more than an orangutan.


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## BobtailCon (Dec 22, 2015)

dale said:


> your "god" is mammon. your god is yourself. that is religion. you've been indoctrinated through bolshevik
> ideals to believe man...as a puny non-cerebral animal...somehow has the capacity to do what he has done
> for thousands of years, without his concept of divinity. you can believe that all you want. but history has PROVEN
> you wrong over and over again. without this concept of divinity? man is nothing more than an orangutan.



With the rule of not debating, I'll end with this (PM me if you want to).

I am not a god, to my knowledge. I'm a human, as fallable and irrational as every other. My eyes can deceive me, my ears can deceive me, even my mind will fade with time. The only way I can interpret this world properly, is through science. The act of science has taught humans more about ourselves than we could ever know. Science brought us out of the dark ages, science put smart phones in our hands, and glasses on our faces. I could argue that many, many scientists are atheists, but there's no reason to. I don't care if scientists are theistic or atheistic, they're people.

you claim that we need the concept of divinity, and yet this concept of divinity can only be interpreted through your mind? How convenient.

 I do not see the point in arguing or debating with you, because according to you, religious people are considered "stupid," and atheists "intellectual," so it wouldn't be very fair, would it?

Again, I'm done, PM me of you wish.


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

ya see? i think that the majority of atheists have never read "the origin of species" by darwin. 
i don't think they've read nietzsche. i don't think they've read kant. i don't think they've read marx. 
but i have. i've read all their shit. and all those men? they would have already been admitting their
atheist philosophies were wrong by now. but you materialists just keep on believing and believing.


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## dale (Dec 22, 2015)

BobtailCon said:


> With the rule of not debating, I'll end with this (PM me if you want to).
> 
> I am not a god, to my knowledge. I'm a human, as fallable and irrational as every other. My eyes can deceive me, my ears can deceive me, even my mind will fade with time. The only way I can interpret this world properly, is through science. The act of science has taught humans more about ourselves than we could ever know. Science brought us out of the dark ages, science put smart phones in our hands, and glasses on our faces. I could argue that many, many scientists are atheists, but there's no reason to. I don't care if scientists are theistic or atheistic, they're people.
> 
> ...


science is a wonderful concept. too bad it not only changes year to year, but is influenced by FUNDING.
 science is as crooked as politics allows it to be now.


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## BobtailCon (Dec 22, 2015)

dale said:


> ya see? i think that the majority of atheists have never read "the origin of species" by darwin.
> i don't think they've read nietzsche. i don't think they've read kant. i don't think they've read marx.
> but i have. i've read all their shit. and all those men? they would have already been admitting their
> atheist philosophies were wrong by now. but you materialists just keep on believing and believing.




Again, send me a PM. 

And I'm not a materialist, and I don't hold their beliefs, I just don't believe in any deities.


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## TheWonderingNovice (Dec 22, 2015)

Alright y'all, lets play nice here.

Thank you *BobtailCon* for observing Da Rules.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 22, 2015)

Whatever one's belief system, here and now ain't the place to debate the relative merits of those systems. Peace on Earth and goodwill to fellow members, and all of that.

*Translation**: no debating.*


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## BobtailCon (Dec 22, 2015)

*DING DING DING*

See you round two :boxing:


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## Aquarius (Dec 23, 2015)

BobtailCon said:


> We have instruments to read those other senses. We don't have instruments to read the supernatural.



We shall never have technical instruments for reading supernatural things, but everybody has a built in sixth sense for them. That's what's known as our superconscious faculties. It's just that in some people this part has not yet woken up, but sooner or later it will.


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## InstituteMan (Dec 23, 2015)

Aquarius said:


> We shall never have technical instruments for reading supernatural things, but everybody has a built in sixth sense for them. That's what's known as our superconscious faculties. It's just that in some people this part has not yet woken up, but sooner or later it will.



Since this is writing site, let me quote my favorite book (Lord of Light) by my favorite author (Roger Zelazny). The death-god Yama disputes the contention that it matters not whether demons are supernatural beings if they are powerful and evil:



> "Ah, but it makes a great deal of difference, you see. It is the difference between the unknown and the unknowable, between science and fantasy--it is a matter of essence. The four points of the compass be logic, knowledge, wisdom and the unknown. Some do bow in that final direction. Others advance upon it. To bow before the one is to lose sight of the other three. I may submit to the unknown, but never to the unknowable. The man who bows in that final direction is either a saint or a fool. I have no use for either."



I know for a fact that there is much to this universe that human senses cannot perceive. I don't doubt that there is much to this universe that our scientific instruments cannot yet detect or measure. I even acknowledge that there are some matters that cannot be ascertained by even the best measurements, such as both the precise location of a particle and the energy of the same particle at a single instant in time (that's a very basic description of the Uncertainty Principle that seems fundamental to quantum mechanics). I do not, however, believe that anything about the universe is fundamentally unknowable.


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## escorial (Dec 23, 2015)

I like the idea of a soul mate.. I'm cool with that definition of soul...hope I get to meet that person one day.


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## Aquarius (Dec 24, 2015)

InstituteMan said:


> . . . I do not, however, believe that anything about the universe is fundamentally unknowable.



Thank you for sharing your insights into this theme with us here. I believe that the very reason why we find ourselves in this existence is that we should search for answers to find a better understanding of the true nature of God, of ourselves, each other and our world, as well as the rest of the Cosmos.


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## RDA (Dec 24, 2015)

In regards to the OP, I think would need a boost in intelligence to even begin to understand its interworkings. It's like cat attempting to figure out how a light bulb works, as simple as it seems to us, the cat doesn't even have the capacity to wonder about it, we do, but I doubt we could understand it even if it was explained.


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## Aquarius (Dec 24, 2015)

One day we shall be advanced enough to understand, of that I am sure. Wise ones know that the answers to all our questions are known within. In their meditations and quiet reflections they turn to their inner guidance and ask. Then they wait patiently for the answer to appear, as surely it will somehow. And when it does, they recognise that this is what they have been looking for.

It is not for nothing that we are told in St. Matthew 7:7-8 ‘Ask and it shall be given to you. Seek and you shall find. Knock and it shall be opened to you. For whoever asks, receives, and those who seek will find, and to those who knock, the inner doors will be opened.’


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## ned (Dec 24, 2015)

the soul - what is it? - from the descriptions given, it's something that possesses the ego functions of the brain - 
as if we all had a phantom hand that could only write self-indulgent poetry. so why invent it?

it's a device, to enable everlasting life - we all know what happens to our dead bodies, so something else is required to live on, representing us, for all eternity.

its invisible and undetectable, but if the message is re-enforced enough, the idea becomes part of the cultral furniture - hence this discussion.

side note - aetheists are not paticularly 'humanistic'. it's those messing with the planet and starting wars with the consent of god, that I worry about.


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## Patrick (Dec 24, 2015)

InstituteMan said:


> Everyone is free to think as they wish in these matters.
> *
> I cast my lot with Robert Ingersoll, the great skeptic of the 19th Century. What we call a soul is a manifestation of the chemicals and electrical signals in our brains. That it feels like more than that is down to both the excellence and terribleness of our thinking machines.*
> 
> To speculate about that which by definition cannot be observed is of no use to me in my life; it may make for a good story, and I have enjoyed both consuming and creating stories of such a type, but I do not bow to the unknowable. However charming a story may be, the observed universe persuades me that I did not exist for eons, I was born and have existed for the span of my life, and I shall die and cease to exist forevermore. This reality does not disturb me.



I can see why a man like that would ascribe great terribleness to his brain; you really must feel sorry for one who has spent a lifetime farting out his own theses. _Theses _by _sceptics. _Do be careful; all this talk of the emergent properties of chemicals might confuse one with images of feces and septic think tanks.


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## ppsage (Dec 24, 2015)

Patrick said:


> I can see why a man like that would ascribe great terribleness to his brain; you really must feel sorry for one who has spent a lifetime farting out his own theses. _Theses _by _sceptics. _Do be careful; all this talk of the emergent properties of chemicals might confuse one with images of feces and septic think tanks.


And yet, compare the posts in terms of scatological semantics.


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## Kevin (Dec 24, 2015)

Somehow I feel as though a shot has rung across the bow.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Dec 24, 2015)

Say, has anyone noticed that this is Christmas? Tis the season to be nice and not get into any debates, cool?


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## Mesafalcon (Dec 25, 2015)

Aquarius said:


> It is not for nothing that we are told in St. Matthew 7:7-8 ‘Ask and it shall be given to you. Seek and you shall find. Knock and it shall be opened to you. For whoever asks, receives, and those who seek will find, and to those who knock, the inner doors will be opened.’



It's for nothing for me. I personally disregard the Bible. 

The Internet is not the best place to preach it since there are such various beliefs here and resistance to religious debates (which posting things like this spark up). It is best to share and apprieciate with those who will simply agree and nod.


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## BobtailCon (Dec 25, 2015)

mrmustard615 said:


> Say, has anyone noticed that this is Christmas? Tis the season to be nice and not get into any debates, cool?



But I like arguing..


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## Aquarius (Dec 25, 2015)

Mesafalcon said:


> . . . I personally disregard the Bible. . .



I have never been a bible thumper and never will be, but the book does contain many nuggets of wisdom and truth.


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## Aquarius (Dec 25, 2015)

BobtailCon said:


> But I like arguing..



I don't, but each to their own. Be that as it may, happy Christmas to all.


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## Patrick (Dec 25, 2015)

Kevin said:


> Somehow I feel as though a shot has rung across the bow.



The shot was fired from a Mosin-Nagant by a marksman on the fifth floor, who had earlier beheaded several security elves with a home-made lightsaber. He was later seen entering the local cinema in a Ben Kenobi outfit for a showing of "The Force Awakens". Detectives are having trouble understanding why a gentle man with a love for Star Wars memorabilia and neck beard would shoot Father Christmas - waving from a float in the middle of a Christmas procession through Dallas. Our prayers are with Rudolph, family and friends, and we echo Father Christmas' last words. "They'll never kill Christmas."


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## Arcopitcairn (Dec 25, 2015)

Here's what a soul is made of:


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## Patrick (Dec 25, 2015)

Arcopitcairn said:


> Here's what a soul is made of:



Good answer. My own soul is similarly comprised of the white abyss, but every now and then I catch the emanation of an angelic host, the climbing notes of their heavenly choir stubbornly on the edge of my consciousness.


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## Olly Buckle (Dec 25, 2015)

BobtailCon said:


> But I like arguing..



Oh no you don't !!


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## Courtjester (Dec 25, 2015)

Arcopitcairn said:


> Here's what a soul is made of:



Wouldn't it be more appropriate for you to say: 'Here's what MY soul is made of'?


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## Aquarius (Dec 25, 2015)

Patrick said:


> . . . every now and then I catch the emanation of an angelic host, the climbing notes of their heavenly choir stubbornly on the edge of my consciousness.



An excellent starting point!


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## Aquarius (Dec 25, 2015)

Olly Buckle said:


> Oh no you don't !!



Oh, but he does!


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## TheWonderingNovice (Dec 25, 2015)

And no one likes arguing (as it may lead to debating) because it'd be against Da rules. Now, let's get back on track since we seem to have derailed from the op.


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## Aquarius (Dec 25, 2015)

TheWonderingNovice said:


> And no one likes arguing because it'd be against Da rules. Now, let's get back on track since we seem to have derailed from the op.



Nothing wrong with arguing, in my view, as long as it remains a friendly exchange of views and doesn't degenerate into hostilities.


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## Aquarius (Dec 25, 2015)

escorial said:


> I like the idea of a soul mate.. I'm cool with that definition of soul...hope I get to meet that person one day.



I wonder whether the following could be of interest to you:

‘Soul Mates’

* * *​


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## ppsage (Dec 25, 2015)

Courtjester said:


> Wouldn't it be more appropriate for you to say: 'Here's what MY soul is made of'?


I wonder if it's ever appropriate to claim soul as an individual possession?


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## Pluralized (Dec 25, 2015)

Endlessly fascinating subject. For me, research into this area yields little in the way of hard science, rather an ethereal sprinkling of intuition-derived truths that weave their tendrils into an almost-freestanding ideology. The soul is energy, yes, linked with consciousness and separate at the same time, requiring a different observation than science can offer. It's music, it's love and art and anguish and all of those things that sing out the true music of existence. 

[video=youtube;27i3aajWFok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27i3aajWFok[/video]


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## PiP (Dec 25, 2015)

Like God, your soul is intangible


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## Aquarius (Dec 26, 2015)

ppsage said:


> I wonder if it's ever appropriate to claim soul as an individual possession?



I believe that each one of us a spark of the Divine, the Great Light, the giver, protector and nurturer of all life and lifeforms. The essence of our being is spirit and each one of us is an individual spirit that has its own soul. The soul of all of us is part of the soul of our world and it in turn belongs to the soul of the whole of Creation, the Great Mother of all life.


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## Aquarius (Dec 26, 2015)

PiP said:


> Like God, your soul is intangible



Yes, like the spirit of God, the Great Father/Mother of all life, our spirit and soul are abstract and invisible to earthly eyes.


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## YoungScholar (Dec 26, 2015)

These comments have been amazing.


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## Gofa (Dec 27, 2015)

Having a soul generates concern as to the souls existence. People with no soul give the soul's existence no thought at all.


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## Aquarius (Dec 27, 2015)

Gofa said:


> . . . People with no soul give the soul's existence no thought at all.



I would prefer to say that for as long as we remain unaware of the presence of our soul, and our spirit for that matter, we do not think about them.


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## BeanMcGrath (Dec 28, 2015)

Metaphysical feathers
the fine film of champagne bubbles
the smiles that come from kind acts
the bottom is the empty bucket 
that carries the drummed out rhythm
the sighs that turn leaves in fall
and your dead Mother's whisper
riding through the grey synapsis
and several layers of intimate truth


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## Sonata (Dec 29, 2015)

There is no recipe for a soul.

Your soul is you - it is what you are.


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## Aquarius (Dec 29, 2015)

BeanMcGrath said:


> Metaphysical feathers
> the fine film of champagne bubbles
> the smiles that come from kind acts
> the bottom is the empty bucket
> ...



An interesting poem, but what does it have to do with the human soul?


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## InstituteMan (Dec 29, 2015)

Aquarius said:


> An interesting poem, but what does it have to do with the human soul?



Sounds like one poet's description of what a soul is made of to me.


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## Aquarius (Dec 29, 2015)

InstituteMan said:


> Sounds like one poet's description of what a soul is made of to me.



Come to think of it, I believe you are right. It's just that we all have different perceptions of - well, just about everything.


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## Phil Istine (Dec 29, 2015)

3 oz stardust
1 oz dark matter
2 oz dark energy
12 brain cells
9 Higgs boson particles


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## BeanMcGrath (Dec 29, 2015)

YoungScholar if you start a closed forum about philosophical ideas please invite me.


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## JustRob (Dec 29, 2015)

Phil Istine said:


> 3 oz stardust
> 1 oz dark matter
> 2 oz dark energy
> 12 brain cells
> 9 Higgs boson particles



Twelve brain cells? Oh dear. That must mean that our cat Oscar doesn't have a soul. He has a lovely character though, even if he is a bit slow on the uptake.


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## Aquarius (Dec 30, 2015)

BeanMcGrath said:


> YoungScholar if you start a closed forum about philosophical ideas please invite me.



If you do, please don't forget to also send an invitation to me.


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## Firemajic (Dec 30, 2015)

Aquarius said:


> I would prefer to say that for as long as we remain unaware of the presence of our soul, and our spirit for that matter, we do not think about them.




IMHO.. the spirit and soul are very different entities... Similar... but not the same...


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## Aquarius (Dec 30, 2015)

I believe that spirit and soul are one and belong together.


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## Firemajic (Dec 30, 2015)

hahaa.. well I respect your opinion, but absolutely disagree because of a verse in the Bible.. but anyway.. friends can agree to disagree.. yes??


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## Aquarius (Dec 30, 2015)

Did you know that the words of the Bible were never meant to be set in concrete or carved in stone? Spiritual wisdom and truth is evolving, just the same as everything else that takes part in God's great evolutionary plan of life.


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## Firemajic (Dec 30, 2015)

Aquarius said:


> Did you know that the words of the Bible were never meant to be set in concrete or carved in stone? Spiritual wisdom and truth is evolving, just the same as everything else that takes part in God's great evolutionary plan of life.



hahaa.. well .. THAT is a completely different topic all together...


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## JustRob (Dec 30, 2015)

I haven't made a serious contribution to this thread since post number 51. Could somebody write a synopsis of the story so far please? I only ask because we are trying to be writers, at least some of the time, and evidently writing a synopsis can be very difficult. I have tried to write one for my novel many times but have rejected every one of them because none have reflected the essence of the story, its soul if you like. Just as with a person, the soul of a story can be buried deeply, in what it implies and where it originated rather than how it appears. It is difficult enough for a person just to understand what is happening in their subconscious mind without attempting to dig even deeper and discover their soul. No wonder many say that they have no need of a soul. 

In post number 51 I described a soul as something which endures. Surely that is what both good living and good literature are about. Let's aim for both then and sustain the soul.


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## Aquarius (Jan 2, 2016)

Firemajic said:


> hahaa.. well .. THAT is a completely different topic all together...



To me, it is not!


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## LeeC (Jan 5, 2016)

“The dead did not call to me from the underworlds, but spoke to me from the rustling pine needles. They did not gaze down upon me from the skyworlds, but smiled up at me from a bead of dew trembling precariously upon a blade of grass. They told me I have never been alone. Not for one instant. Every soul is a thread in the fabric of the world. All I must do to see my relatives is gaze into the shining water that sleeps.” 
~ Kathleen O'Neal Gear, People of the Silence


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## InstituteMan (Jan 5, 2016)

Perhaps grass is what a soul is made of. Walt Whitman summed it up nicely:



> I bequeath myself to the dirt to grow from the grass I love,
> If you want me again look for me under your boot-soles.
> 
> You will hardly know who I am or what I mean,
> ...


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## joshybo (Jan 5, 2016)

Admittedly, I did not read the other replies, so please excuse any reiteration, but according to some sources, when the ancient Greeks spoke of the soul, they envisioned it as an actual part of the human body that was responsible for our intangible processes—thoughts, dreaming, what have you.  To them, it wasn't so much something to believe in or not, it just _was_ and that was proven by the fact we had these real experiences, although we had nothing solid to which to connect them.  Nowadays a lot of people say the same sort of thing, only they relate it to things we now know, such as body chemistry and the firing of synapses.  While I don't believe anybody will ever know _for sure_ until, well, you know, I do believe in the soul as a spiritual essence of man, although I wouldn't discount there is a scientific process behind its function. I feel like we are sometimes too quick to set up the dichotomy between the processes of nature and the processes of God.  To me, personally, the two are one in the same.


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## Aquarius (Jan 6, 2016)

joshybo said:


> . . . To me, personally, the two are one and the same.



That's what they also are to me.


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## Terry D (Jan 6, 2016)

joshybo said:


> I feel like we are sometimes too quick to set up the dichotomy between the processes of nature and the processes of God.  To me, personally, the two are one in the same.



Perfect.


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## Olly Buckle (Jan 6, 2016)

All this talk of God and spiritual awareness, for us atheists the soul is made of the imagination, a bit like faeries and unicorns, a lovely idea, no more.


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## Robbie (Jan 6, 2016)

Maybe soul and mind are the same thing. For me that answers the question.


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## Patrick (Jan 6, 2016)

Robbie said:


> Maybe soul and mind are the same thing. For me that answers the question.



Biblically they are. Man is triunal like his maker. Body, soul/mind, and spirit, and each one has a mind of its own.


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## Aquarius (Jan 7, 2016)

Olly Buckle said:


> All this talk of God and spiritual awareness, for us atheists the soul is made of the imagination, a bit like faeries and unicorns, a lovely idea, no more.



Each to their own, dear Olly.


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## YoungScholar (Jan 15, 2016)

My topic of the soul has nothing to do with religion. It is a concept I find very interesting. Our brain and chemicals in our body make up most of our characteristics; however, as hard as it is to explain, there seems to be traits that come out sometimes in people that originate not from there mind or body, but from something deeper. Sacrifice, love... I believe there is something else in the body that contributes to these things, perhaps a soul? Happy sad anger rage shy outgoing, all of the mind. Love, unrealistic sacrifice, moments of passion being drawn deeply to something, I find it hard to believe all these thing are mere chemicals of the brain.  So I keep the topic alive: What is a soul made of? Is it ingrained in us from birth? Or is the soul empty at first, and through life experiences you build and shape what will be left behind when you die, your soul.


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## Aquarius (Jan 15, 2016)

YoungScholar said:


> My topic of the soul has nothing to do with religion. . .



I am glad to hear that, YoungScholar. My replies too have nothing to do with religion, but everything with spirituality. More soon.


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## Ephemeral_One (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm a pagan, or at least that is the title I use to still the flapping tongues when religion comes up. It's the simplest answer I can give in response but for the sake of answering the original question of this thread, I'll expound a bit out of idle curiosity on what responses I'll provoke.

Specifically, I'm a follower of the Kao'Ten. Don't bother looking it up, it's not a historical term you'll find. The closest translation I can give is 'the Four eternal elements'. The Kao'Ten states that the universe is made up of the four elements of Fire, Earth, Air and Water in varying mixtures. Obviously, the world is made up of more than stones, torches, wind and lakes. Yet, these are the four primordial tools that come to make up all we know. That much I believe. 

Now, how this relates to this thread is that on the east-west axis of the Kao'Ten are Fire and Water respectively. These two elements when applied to life are one's spirit and soul. These serve two very linked but different functions. The spirit is what unites one to the world around them. This is because Fire, in its most basic form exists within the entire body. A more appropriate name would likely to call Fire 'Energy'. From the movement of atoms to your Mitochondria to the heat signature you leave after sitting for a long time. The energy your body generates is the spirit that links you to the world around you. Some call this an individual's 'aura' but it's how you can read someone without ever meeting their facial expression.  The Spirit can also be communal in the case of an anthill where a singular ant may 'shut down' if lost from the colony. 

At the opposite from the flame is the cold, watery soul. Unlike the spirit, the soul exists in each individual. However, it is like a muscle and if neglected, can rot. If the spirit joins you with others, the soul is your indivudality. What defines you specifically. Even twins or every insect has their own soul. This is because the soul is tied to one's self awareness and if not present at first, can be developed. Souls, as being tied to the water element, are fluid and are shaped by experiences in life. They take in aspects of life and release what is no longer desired. Thus, a particularly strong life could cause a soul to be almost unrecognizable or become firmly attached to an idea, place or sensation. The best clarification I'm capable of making is that the soul is a 'heat sink' of energy. It stores them within one's self making it tied to the spirit while serving a wholly different function. Intertwined most deeply are the soul and mind, making the two difficult to distinguish while one is aware. This is why dreams and visions are often impossible to tell apart. 

This is just a basic primer but I felt like tossing my hat into the ring.


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## Aquarius (Jan 15, 2016)

How very interesting! Thank you for sharing your insights into this theme with us.


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## Ariel (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm also a pagan.  I have a differing view from Ephemeral.

I'm more along the lines of the Jungian Collective Consciousness.  Our souls are merely that part of us that recognizes that we are connected to everything else.  Our ego overrides the collectiveness of ourselves while we're alive but we'll return to that state upon death.


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## YoungScholar (Jan 15, 2016)

http://www.writingforums.com/threads/162874-My-soul?p=1952904#post1952904

I wrote a poem to express my feelings of this matter.


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## Aquarius (Jan 16, 2016)

I am a free spirit and all my writings are of an intuitive nature and present my truth. If something speaks to you and your inner guidance says: ‘Yes, this is true,’ you can believe it because it is your truth, too. Everything I write about has grown organically within me, so to speak. Since I started holding my ideas about spiritual topics down in writing about twenty years ago, there has been an uninterrupted flow of them, which to this moment is continuing. Up to that time I had never felt the slightest interest in such things. I had most certainly not read about them extensively, the way many people are doing.

In the beginning I was surprised how much I knew about religious/spiritual issues, in spite of the fact that I had never given them any thought before. But blessed as I am now with the gift of hindsight, it is not hard to see that this was necessary for carrying out the special task for which I have been chosen. This pathway ensured that my consciousness would not be filled to the brim with prejudices, false beliefs and preconceived ideas. My response to the question 'What is soul made of?' is as follows:

*What Is Soul?*​ 
As there seems to be a great deal of confusion about this, let’s take a closer look. Traditional astrology and its four elements can go a long way towards a better understanding of God’s nature and our own. Fire and Air represent the masculine, positive and outgoing of our own nature and the God aspect of the Divine Trinity. Its counterpart consists of Earth and Water, the feminine, passive and receptive elements of the Goddess and us. God’s spirit and our own is masculine and belongs to Air, the realm of thought, and Fire, the creative ideas which are constantly flowing from the Godhead into the whole of Creation. The Air element transmits these fiery ideas into its feminine counterpart. And the love and wisdom of the Great Mother of all life decides where they should be manifested in the physical realms of Earth and Water, for example as physical bodies of Mother Earth’s children of the animal kingdom.

In our role as earthlings, for a long time we have not idea that in truth we are much more than earthly beings who are wandering around, each in their own physical body. Eventually it dawns on us that there is a part of us that dwells invisibly within these bodies that is more important by far than their outer shells. This aspect of our being does not die when our physical body returns to the Earth. It is immortal and eternal, and therefore will and can never die. At the death of our physical body this part moves on into different dimensions of life, the world of spirit or light, the place we once came from, our true home. It comes clear to us then that in truth there is no such thing as death, merely transformations into different life states.

Whether we are as yet aware of this or not, every woman and man without exception has these different aspects of their being and is subject to the same evolutionary processes. Each one of us who is presently taking part in Earth life is an individual spirit, who is temporarily encased in matter and has a soul of its own. Every country, every planet, our world and all worlds has a soul of its own and all together they are part of the Great Soul, the Mother of all life. On the inner level of life all is one and every individual soul, the soul of our world and all worlds are evolving simultaneously. Hence the saying: ‘What is done for one is done for all.’

The soul is the memory bank of every one of the events and encounters we are experiencing in the course of all our lifetimes. The soul is our feeling nature, the soft, sensitive, caring and nurturing feminine aspect in both genders. This part of us grows and develops through the learning we gather, each under their own steam, in the course of many lifetimes. As the feminine aspect of God is conscious in women, they usually are more in touch with the world of their feelings. And because this part is unconscious in men, it is much harder for them to gain access to this world.

Having established that the essence and core of our being is spirit and soul, the question arises whether it is possible to study our spirit. I don’t think so, but then we are not in this life to study our spirit – it just IS – always has been and forever will be. It is abstract and invisible, eternal, immortal and indestructible. Nothing can hurt, harm or damage it. Every spirit, at the beginning of its epic evolutionary journey, has to build itself a soul, so that with its help the spirit can begin to experience itself and the world in which it finds itself from time to time.

Soul cannot be seen either, but it can be felt. Any pain in our physical body is a soul signal that something on the inner level of our being is crying out to be looked at. The outer pain is invariably a manifestation of some kind of soul pain. It represents a shadow and an unresolved issue from the past that could have been waiting to be dealt with for a very long time. Each pain is an indication that something is asking to be looked at and dealt with and forgiven in an appropriate manner, so that healing can take place.

The soul belongs to the Water element, the realm of feelings and emotions. It is part of our waterbody and because our physical bodies consist of about seventy percent water, it is huge and clearly of great importance. The physical body acts like an overcoat that is worn over other more subtle bodies, for example the astral one for getting around and exploring the spirit world, after the physical body has been shed. Being the storehouse of the memories of anything that ever happens to us in the course of all our lifetimes up to the present moment, everything leaves its imprint in our souls. At each entry into another lifetime we bring these memories with us and we constantly carry them around with us. In the cells of each newly created physical body they are already present.

All spirit is consciousness and belongs to the realm of thought. God’s spirit is thought energy and because we are part of God, so is the main part of ours. The most powerful force in the whole of Creation is thought. Although they are abstract and cannot be seen on our present level of existence, God’s as well as our thoughts are very real. If, whilst on the earthly plane of life, we believe that we can think as we please because no-one will know, we could not be more mistaken. On the inner level of life every one of our thoughts is visible and with them, so to speak, we are constantly shouting our intentions from the rooftops, for all to see. The intentions behind every one of our thoughts and deeds decide whether they are serving the good of life or whether they are evil. Read more about this by following the links at the end of this chapter.

Be that as it may, each newly created spirit needs to create itself a world and then a soul through which this world can be felt and experienced with the help of its feelings. In the final analysis God created us, so we can be sent out into the world, to experience and learn about itself. This is how God – and by this I mean the Universal Life Force, the Great Father/Mother of all life – gets to know Itself through us, Its creations.

We are consciousness and in truth, nothing on the Earth plane belongs to us, except the amount of awareness we have found up to any given point of our evolutionary development. The purpose of all human earthly sojourns has always been that we should grow in wisdom and understanding. To put it quite simply, each spirit once it has created itself a world of matter, is in possession of a physical body and has grown itself a soul, during its earthly sojourns finds out that when we as earthlings cut ourselves with a knife, we bleed and it hurts. When someone speaks hurtful words to us, our soul moans and weeps. And when we climb to the top of a tower or a wall and jump down from it, we discover that in spite of the fact that our spirit is free and can in truth travel in its thoughts wherever it wants, our physical bodies are unable to fly.

Aquarius is the sign of equality, equal rights and duties for everyone. And the Age of Aquarius is bringing us the recognition that the right of taking part in earthly life presents us with a duty and an obligation. Each one of us is in this life to develop their own Christ nature and through this evolve into an ever more beautiful, kind and loving, tolerant and compassionate being. Through bringing forth and practising our Christ characteristics and qualities in our daily lives we gradually grow into saviours and redeemers of ourselves and the whole of humankind. And that is the only way the Christ Spirit will ever be able to fulfil this long promised function for us and our world.

As the same characteristics that are in God are also in each one of us, there is never any need to feel inferior or superior to anyone. Everybody has everything within and nobody is all good or all bad. Even though to this day in many the Divine powers merely exist in seed form, they are there. If we cannot yet recognise them in ourselves or someone else, it is because they are still slumbering. But with each one who awakens to their true nature and begins to grow and evolve consciously, Mother Earth does the same. Life on our beloved beautiful planet will never cease. Just the same as we as individuals and as a race are doing, it will always move forwards and upwards on the evolutionary spiral of life onto ever higher levels of existence of such beauty and sophistication as we as yet are unable to imagine even in our wildest dreams.

And yet and yet, there will come a time for every human soul when, having returned to the world of spirit once more, we and the wise ones in charge of us can see that Earth life no longer can teach us anything. Only then do we, our spirit and soul that is, know that we are ready to move onto higher learning on different levels of life.


From ‘Healers And Healing’

* * *

​


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## YoungScholar (Jan 16, 2016)

I love the thought and vision of death just a moving stage to another realm. There is something not physical or worldly about all people, that's why people strive for such high and great things. If humans were merely another designed animal, all our goal would be is to reproduce and survive. In this day and age it is a prime time to learn about your soul and experience what it feels like.


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## BobtailCon (Jan 16, 2016)

It's fascinating to find other pagans in these forums. I practice Celtic Shamanism, which has very specific regards to the spirit, the afterlife, and so on. As I've said in other posts, I don't believe in any deities, but I'm still a deeply spiritual person. 

I've experienced things that don't fit in the science of a brain's hiccups. Perhaps the things I've experienced are parts of the brain undiscovered, perhaps I believe in an afterlife to calm the fear that is natural to death. 

And though I have these PERSONAL beliefs, I'd never tell someone that they are going to the same place I am after death, or even that they will go somewhere after death. I've seen things that lead me to my path, it doesn't mean that I'm right, or that someone else is wrong. The one thing we can rely on in reality is science. It's as simple as that.


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## YoungScholar (Jan 17, 2016)

I don't know what life after death looks like, but there is no doubt in my mind the "other part of us" that can't really be explained lives on, and we then take that form.


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## Aquarius (Jan 17, 2016)

Everything that is in our lives is there to teach us something and death  is no exception. Most of all it shows that nothing  and no-one on the  Earth plane has any real power. No matter how powerful and splendid  someone may think they are, the Angel of Death – who is part of the  Great Mother’s wisdom and love – calls them away at its bidding. Nobody  leaves this plane as our inflated ego may try to make us believe, but  without any kind of earthly possessions just the same as everybody else.  The whole procedure of death is a demonstration that true and lasting  power never belongs to any one of us earthlings. It belongs to God alone  and the hierarchy of wise ones, who have been appointed to be in charge  of us and who act on the commands of those superior to them on the  highest levels of life.

The Angel of Death is a group of Angels. None of them has anything in common with the images of the grim reaper we know from days gone by. The countenance of these Angels is kind and loving and they radiate nothing but love. When we are ready to leave our physical body behind, one of them comes for our spirit and soul. Taking the hand of our astral body, it wraps its wings of golden light around us and takes us to the world of light.

From ‘Parents And Children’

‘Comfort for the Bereaved’

* * *​


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## YoungScholar (Jan 18, 2016)

I feel like death is a deceiving word at times. Could it be that what we call death is truly life. What if we don't begin living until after we leave the physical world. Questions come endless.


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## Aquarius (Jan 18, 2016)

*There Is No Death*
​ 
Extract from a talk at a Remembrance Service by White Eagle, from ‘The Way of the Sun’: ‘There is no death. Of what are you afraid? You may look upon an empty shell – like the shell of a chrysalis – and say: ‘This is death!’ No, this is not death, it is rebirth and life. Life continues. It always is, always has been and forever will be. We, your guides from the world of light, who are fully conscious of having passed the great initiation called death, come to you having crossed the bridge of love, which is partly created by the love you are giving us. God, the Great Spirit, has so created you and your bodies – your physical and your higher bodies – that you have the power within you to commune with those you love in the world of spirit. You have material available for the construction of this bridge between your physical world and the worlds on the higher ethers. We are coming to you and you can also learn to join us in full consciousness.

‘In your earthly life you can be builders, together with us, your companions of your spirit, of a bridge between your state of life and the higher life. When humankind has accomplished this task in full consciousness, it will know that the Angels and Masters, the great siblinghood of the Christ Star, are with you to inspire and assist you with all your tasks in earthly life. This does not mean shifting your present responsibilities onto the companions of your spirit. It means you yourself are acting on the Divine laws of the Universe. Some people seem to think they can sit back and let God and the Angels do the work. This is not the case. You are on the Earth to learn about vital spiritual truths and these lessons can only be learnt through everyone’s own daily experiences. You have to learn to do and act with love and great care. Merely saying so is not good enough.’

From ‘Comfort for the Bereaved’

* * *​


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## YoungScholar (Jan 18, 2016)

Very interesting ideas. Life is like water: it just keeps flowing and flowing. How narrow-minded it is to believe that this life is merely our time on the planet.


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## BobtailCon (Jan 18, 2016)

YoungScholar said:


> Very interesting ideas. Life is like water: it just keeps flowing and flowing. How narrow-minded it is to believe that this life is merely our time on the planet.



What?


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## Kevin (Jan 18, 2016)

:angel:Ahhh ♫...Worm-food!  
Sorry, my inner 'thing' just keeps telling me "worm-food".


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## InstituteMan (Jan 18, 2016)

I'm perfectly fine being worm food and grass fertilizer when I die. Life will go on, even when mine does not.


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## Aquarius (Jan 19, 2016)

YoungScholar said:


> . . . How narrow-minded it is to believe that this life is merely our time on the planet.



Very! ​


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## YoungScholar (Jan 19, 2016)

I am glad the majority of the people here are at least in touch with their, ready to be fertilizer, body. For one to understand and grasp the strings that actually move the puppet, yes it is those who are truly enlightened.


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## Kevin (Jan 19, 2016)

> I'm perfectly fine being worm food and grass fertilizer when I die.


 Not me. I don't like lawns. They're completely unnatural, blocking out plant diversity and habitat.  I say you take all cemeteries, give them 40 years, and then plant seedlings everywhere, turning the lawns into forest. Just plant right around the graves; don't remove anything: headstones, statues, nothing... That way they're not just dead-places.


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## Aquarius (Jan 19, 2016)

Kevin said:


> Not me. I don't like lawns. They're completely unnatural, blocking out plant diversity and habitat.  I say you take all cemeteries, give them 40 years, and then plant seedlings everywhere, turning the lawns into forest. Just plant right around the graves; don't remove anything: headstones, statues, nothing... That way they're not just dead-places.



What a good idea! Courtjester and I have decreed in our funeral arrangement plans - or whatever one calls this kind of insurance policy - that we should be cremated and our ashes scattered in the Garden of Remembrance of our local crematorium, a very beautiful and peaceful place.


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## Blade (Jan 19, 2016)

"Not me. I don't like lawns. They're completely unnatural, blocking out plant diversity and habitat."

But that is not entirely unnatural. The growth strategy of grasses is to create an organic mass along the ground to prevent plant diversity. If trees suddenly appear they will grow taller, cast shade, and cut the grasses off form their energy source.

I am not a big fan of lawns but they do represent 'strategy'. :-k


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## Aquarius (Jan 30, 2016)

Dear YoungScholar. You may find today's offering in the Food for Thought thread of interest.


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