# My bad guys need a name



## Stormcat (Mar 7, 2019)

So after carefully crafting a motive, a method to their cruelty, a logo, a power hierarchy, different branches of their secret police, and even picking out the colors for their uniforms my villains are ready to take on the protagonists!

...That is they would be... if I had a name for them. I've gone through at least three revisions of this story, using the placeholder "Supremacists"( Because all supremacists are bad no matter what they claim is "supreme") but It feels too generic a name for a distinct baddie army. It's like calling the evil empire "the Empire".

So I come here asking for advice on what to name them. I have a couple of ideas on name generation options:

1. Two distinct words mashed together. Like how National Socialists gave us "Nazis".
2. A three or four letter acronym. Like the KGB or PRNK.
3. A boring name, but with a clever nickname. Like the Purplebellies for "The Alliance" in Firefly.

Now, before you propose any name ideas, here's what I've got on my Baddies:

-They are theocrats, believing that their god, Zwebog, is the one true god and hold domain over the entire earth, regardless of any silly "secular" existing laws. All those who do not believe in Zwebog are put to death or tortured until they convert.

-They have an obsession with the color white, be it white clothing, white skin, or white buildings. Everything in their domain is to be bleached white. People whose skin is too dark are prime targets for harassment by the Watchtower (Their secret police) and people dye their skin and hair to be seen as "good". Unlike most racists, this group thinks albinos of any race are okay, regardless of which race they originated from.

-The head of this organization is Caiaphas Kaiser, known as "The Prophet". Supposedly the God Zwebog speaks to the people through him, and that is why the brain-damaged (literally) emperor keeps him at his side. The prophet has the power to start or end campaigns of tyranny, and he quite likes living in the luxurious palace with his buddy the emperor. The emperor has basically surrendered all his power over to Kaiser.

-Kaiser has convinced the faithful that the emperor has been "anointed" by Zwebog, so he can pass laws in favor of the church. The emperor himself just does what he's told for an easy reward. The faithful must pray to the emperor as they would Zwebog or the prophet.

-Women are treated as less than third-class citizens. They are basically tied to their homes, and all but the wives and daughters of the elite can even read. It takes the testimony of five women to equal that of one man, and a woman is considered the property of the man. Basically, the church of Zwebog harbors the worst aspects of all known religions.

-The Watchtower functions as the secret police. they can arrest anyone for any reason without a warrant or even probable cause. Naturally, this organization is full of bullies who terrorize the population.

-the protagonists are all atheists or non-believers simply because there is no good "spiritual" option out there for those who seek it out. Either tyranny or nothing.


So, with all that in mind, could you please suggest a name?


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## Sir-KP (Mar 7, 2019)

What's the theme here?

Medieval? Fantasy? Fantasy Medieval? Present Day? Futuristic? Sci Fi?

You can generate group name from their purpose or ideology or how the opposition address them or what they think they are or even the leader's title or name, but first of all you know these characters the best and would be the only one to bestow them a fitting name.

That said, I'm taking a wild shot here:

- Great Zwebog Imperial Legion (if it's more like kingdom)
- The Absoluts (if it's more like organization) 
- Holistic Nation of Supreme Absolute One, Zwebog (HN-SAOZ) (for influential political party or forum name)
- The Theocrat Zwebogians (no official name, just how people call them)


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## ArrowInTheBowOfTheLord (Mar 7, 2019)

Could just be the Church of Zwebog or The Anointed


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## Phil Istine (Mar 7, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> So after carefully crafting a motive, a method to their cruelty, a logo, a power hierarchy, different branches of their secret police, and even picking out the colors for their uniforms my villains are ready to take on the protagonists!
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...



Before going any further with this, are you aware of the following?:  That the Jehovah's Witnesses use the word theocracy rather a lot and that they have a regular magazine called The Watchtower.  They also believe that women should be in subjection to men (though not to the level you describe).  It also appears that they seem to unwittingly interchange their organisation for God (who they call Jehovah).  They justify this by believing their organisation is God's mouthpiece on Earth.  However, they do have a token black man in their governing body of eight men (no women).

You may be aware of the above already and some of those traits are not uncommon in cults, but if you want to avoid unwelcome attention from some quarters you might want to think of a name other than Watchtower.  However, if you are writing a parody of the Jehovah's Witnesses, go for it.  They messed my head up when I was a kid and I'd be fine with a bit of pee-taking.

ETA:  Maybe instead of Watchtower as the police, you might consider the Enforcers, the Olders (a play on Elders - also a term used by JWs), the Zeals (*Z*webog's *E*minent *A*lternative *L*ightbringers).


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## Stormcat (Mar 8, 2019)

Sir-KP said:


> What's the theme here?
> 
> Medieval? Fantasy? Fantasy Medieval? Present Day? Futuristic? Sci Fi?



Gaslamp fantasy.


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## Stormcat (Mar 8, 2019)

Phil Istine said:


> Before going any further with this, are you aware of the following?: That the Jehovah's Witnesses use the word theocracy rather a lot and that they have a regular magazine called The Watchtower. They also believe that women should be in subjection to men (though not to the level you describe). It also appears that they seem to unwittingly interchange their organisation for God (who they call Jehovah). They justify this by believing their organisation is God's mouthpiece on Earth. However, they do have a token black man in their governing body of eight men (no women).
> 
> You may be aware of the above already and some of those traits are not uncommon in cults, but if you want to avoid unwelcome attention from some quarters you might want to think of a name other than Watchtower. However, if you are writing a parody of the Jehovah's Witnesses, go for it. They messed my head up when I was a kid and I'd be fine with a bit of pee-taking.
> 
> ETA: Maybe instead of Watchtower as the police, you might consider the Enforcers, the Olders (a play on Elders - also a term used by JWs), the Zeals (*Z*webog's *E*minent *A*lternative *L*ightbringers).



I am well aware of the following and that is why I deliberately chose the words I did.


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## Amnesiac (Mar 8, 2019)

Call them the Archangels? Gabriel's Fire? Hammer of Michael? The SOG: (Sword of God), JOG: (Judgement of God), Tribulation Troopers, Pale Riders? (nvm the Clint Eastwood movie by the same name...) The FoG: "Fire of God," etc.


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## luckyscars (Mar 8, 2019)

Stormcat,


I'm not sure how receptive to feedback of your idea and do understand it is not the primary purpose of this thread, but what I am about to say I believe is still relevant, since your question involves _identity_. 

It sounds to me like your 'baddies' are eerily similar not to Jehovas Witnesses as Phil mentioned but Islam. Specifically conservative Islam. Specifically the notion of a caliphate:


-"They are theocrats, believing that their god, Zwebog,* is the one true god* and hold domain over the entire earth, *regardless of any silly "secular" existing laws*. All *those who do not believe* in Zwebog a*re put to death or tortured until they convert*."


-The head of this organization is Caiaphas Kaiser, *known as "The Prophet"*.


-*Women are treated as less than third-class citizens*. *They are basically tied to their homes*, and all but the wives and daughters of the elite can even read. *It takes the testimony of five women to equal that of one man, and a woman is considered the property of the man*. Basically, the church of Zwebog harbors the worst aspects of all known religions.

Bolding mine - these are either lifted directly from Islamic tropes, or they are eerily reminiscent. Substitute 'Zwebog' for 'Allah' and 'Caiaphas kaiser' for 'Mohammad' and there is pretty much no difference between this 'theocracy' and Saudi Arabia. Right?

Even this 'Watchtower' thing sounds extremely similar to the Mutaween. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_religious_police


In other words, I actually don't believe your assertion that 'the church of Zwebog harbors the worst aspects of all known religions'. I think you are mainly basing your antagonists, consciously or not, on the worst aspects of one religion. Perhaps with traditional Judaism and Christianity as secondary afterthoughts (they are closely related theologically to Islam so it would be hard not to) but there's certainly no criticism of Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, etc or anything that makes me think based on what info you provide that this is not a polemic on Abrahamic theocracy, which in today's readership and with the aspects mentioned will probably be seen as focused on Islamic beliefs since those are the only extant 'theocracies'.

To be clear, I don't personally have a problem with an allegorical critique of Islam, or any other religion (though many will, of course), but I felt this was important to point out in the context of this thread as it may be something you want to factor into choosing your nomenclature. If it is _not _intentional or desirable for it to be perceived this way you may want to rejig it, or at least center your verbiage as far away from anything associated with Muslim tradition as possible.

Just be careful, I guess?


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## Stormcat (Mar 9, 2019)

luckyscars said:


> Stormcat,
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how receptive to feedback of your idea and do understand it is not the primary purpose of this thread, but what I am about to say I believe is still relevant, since your question involves _identity_.
> ...



Look, I'm making the bad guys the worst aspects of *ALL* religions. I know the risks associated with criticizing Islam directly, so I'm sticking with English or Polish names for them. Christianity also had the "convert or die" rule, especially during the inquisitions or various points of imperialism. Orthodox Judaism treats women as property of men, and Hinduism also has a notorious track record for abusing women.

By making a new hyper-conservative religion, I don't think people will single out anyone orthodoxy like you just did, at least not in the context of the story. They should read it as "a religion taken too far" but still not identify it with a real-world religion.

I spent years researching various world religions, they have a lot in common, especially the more orthodox versions. All that changes is the laguage used.


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## -xXx- (Mar 9, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> So after carefully crafting a motive, a method to their cruelty, a logo, a power hierarchy, different branches of their secret police, and even picking out the colors for their uniforms my villains are ready to take on the protagonists!
> 
> So I come here asking for advice on what to name them. I have a couple of ideas on name generation options:
> 
> ...


k.
so vexilla is white on white?
symbols.com logo rotated 45 degrees.
historically, add some scary snake fringe somewhere.

looked at etmology for pure, life,
while this was intriguing, i don't think it's a _eureka_:
Replaced Old English _hlutor_. Meaning "free from moral corruption" (pure)

Z for the zweebs.
K for the grand-poobah. (or CK, 'cuz when you say the two letters out loud it's funny)
zeeks for the watchtower, 'cuz zweeb zeekseek training would have to be terrifying.
i would also refer to white as _bright(s)_ and all other colors as _not-brights_.
carry that over to language, thought, behaviors.

also eliminate pronouns for the untouchables.
_it_ must garden.
_self-feeding servant _is a powerful motif.
k.
wacha' think?
solid direction or waaaaaaaaaaay off center?


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## luckyscars (Mar 9, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> By making a new hyper-conservative religion, I don't think people will single out anyone orthodoxy like you just did, at least not in the context of the story. They should read it as "a religion taken too far" but still not identify it with a real-world religion.
> 
> I spent years researching various world religions, they have a lot in common, especially the more orthodox versions. All that changes is the laguage used.



Plenty of people would read your summary as being a polemic on Islam because, nowadays, they are the primary providers 'religion taken to far'. Not everybody knows or cares about how bad other religions were in the past. You are writing this now, for readers who live now.

My only point was that, with all this in mind, you need to make sure you don't give them anything even vaguely 'Arabic' sounding. Which it sounds like you are doing.


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## Stormcat (Mar 9, 2019)

-xXx- said:


> Z for the zweebs.



I'm liking this as an informal nickname for these guys. Probably won't use it in a formal context, but definitely in conversations between the rebels.


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## Sir-KP (Mar 10, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> Look, I'm making the bad guys the worst aspects of *ALL* religions. I know the risks associated with criticizing Islam directly, so I'm sticking with English or Polish names for them. Christianity also had the "convert or die" rule, especially during the inquisitions or various points of imperialism. Orthodox Judaism treats women as property of men, and Hinduism also has a notorious track record for abusing women.
> 
> By making a new hyper-conservative religion, I don't think people will single out anyone orthodoxy like you just did, at least not in the context of the story. They should read it as "a religion taken too far" but still not identify it with a real-world religion.
> 
> I spent years researching various world religions, they have a lot in common, especially the more orthodox versions. All that changes is the laguage used.



You're technically correct in that regard.

But if we're allowed to discuss this further, then let me just share something happening in my country that 'these people' (the hardliners) typically are... well, really sensitive. Not that obvious kind of 'sensitivity', but more towards a likeness of being offended in by the portrayal of your fictional religion.

Don't know how it is in your country. Just watch out. I'm doing this kind of 'religion gone too far' antagonist as well and honestly, I'm scared.


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## -xXx- (Mar 11, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> So after carefully crafting a motive, a method to their cruelty, a logo, a power hierarchy, different branches of their secret police, and even picking out the colors for their uniforms my villains are ready to take on the protagonists!
> 
> <snip>
> 
> So, with all that in mind, could you please suggest a name?



IMHO:
no matter how these "teams" are packaged,
they will not be "distanced enough" to encourage
respectful reconsideration of "critical/fundamental differences".

so my question to you [creator of worlds],
has to do with the PROtaganists.
do they have _a_ name, identity/ies,
which embody inclusive, cohesive, bridging 
abstract ideals?
AND
have you considered novel versions of substitution
in areas of principal conflict?

pls.n.thx,


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## theoldman (Mar 11, 2019)

The Fallen and the Void.


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## Phil Istine (Mar 12, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> I am well aware of the following and that is why I deliberately chose the words I did.



Indeed, some of my own work on the forum alludes to that lot, and parts of it aren't so subtle


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## Stormcat (Mar 13, 2019)

-xXx- said:


> so my question to you [creator of worlds],
> has to do with the PROtaganists.
> do they have _a_ name, identity/ies,
> which embody inclusive, cohesive, bridging
> abstract ideals?




This is a good point, They need a name too! (I've just been calling them "The resistance")

These as-of-now nameless rebels are pro-education, pro-women's rights, pro-secularism, and seek to put the crown prince (who is secretly the leader of this resistance) on the throne so "The prophet" is ousted from power and the empire can be returned to normal.

Where the Theocrats demand white, the Rebels will use... literally any color whatsoever. I guess they could use a logo of sorts too.


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 14, 2019)

I would go with 'The Church', capital letters, they are the only one, they do not need to elaborate.


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## Stormcat (Mar 14, 2019)

Olly Buckle said:


> I would go with 'The Church', capital letters, they are the only one, they do not need to elaborate.



Hmm. This sounds pretty good, but I may want to look into obscure words for religious buildings/gathering points for something even more sinister sounding.


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## moderan (Mar 14, 2019)

Olly Buckle said:


> I would go with 'The Church', capital letters, they are the only one, they do not need to elaborate.


And they exist under the milky way, and will pursue their trademark rights.


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## Amnesiac (Mar 14, 2019)

Well, since all of my original suggestions were patently ignored, I suggest you name your bad guys Dave. Every one of them is named Dave. Their leader is Dave the Cat. He likes bits of string and hates the vacuum cleaner. Boom! Done!


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 14, 2019)

No, Dave the Cat is buried under the apple tree in the back garden, he was sixteen and a half kilos of very large black and white cat who used to sleep on his back and snore.


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## Amnesiac (Mar 14, 2019)

This is what makes it so surreal....


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## Stormcat (Mar 14, 2019)

I like Olly Buckle's suggestion of "The Church" but I just want to see if it can be tweaked a little. What do y'all think of these?:

-The Fold
-The Basilica
-The Creed
-The Chancel
-The Order
-The Chapelry
-The Synod
-The Quorum


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## moderan (Mar 14, 2019)

There's a band called the Church. They own the trademark. I've seen four of the above in various books.


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## Amnesiac (Mar 15, 2019)

I love that band, especially their older stuff. "Reptile," was their breakout hit. I remember watching the music video on a huge screen, outside of Shibuya train station, back in 1989/1990, waiting for a girlfriend.

 Also, there's a book called, "The Electronic Church," by an author.... Last name of Somers. It's a trilogy, I think. The main character's named Avery Cates. Good cyberpunk.


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## -xXx- (Mar 15, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> I like Olly Buckle's suggestion of "The Church" but I just want to see if it can be tweaked a little. What do y'all think of these?:
> 
> -The Fold
> -The Basilica
> ...


simple is good.
suspending disbelief is complex
when
dealing with emotionally charged material
and
those are realtime charges with current impact.

_*deleted, 'cuz*
*leaves <insert laughing here>*_

don't forget the natural sacred places
in your quest.
_monolith?_
incorporeal aspects.
_THOT?_
_*nods*
*could work*
*could even put candles on top*_


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 16, 2019)

moderan said:


> There's a band called the Church. They own the trademark. I've seen four of the above in various books.


A band called 'The Church' would surely be an infringement, but I can't see it with a religious group. If in doubt one could add an 'of' as in The Church of Rome, or the C of E.


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## moderan (Mar 16, 2019)

Trademark ownership is trademark ownership. Add the 'of'. The Church haven't sold an LP in years, they prolly need the money.


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## bazz cargo (Mar 16, 2019)

Sexist? The Brethren... Ho Brother. 

Secretive? The Smoke... Catch me if you can.


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 16, 2019)

moderan said:


> Trademark ownership is trademark ownership. Add the 'of'. The Church haven't sold an LP in years, they prolly need the money.



Trademark ownership is not across the board, only in the classes you have registered, and if they are that old they may have let the registration drop, it lasts ten years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-classify-trade-marks


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## -xXx- (Mar 16, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> I like Olly Buckle's suggestion of "The Church" but I just want to see if it can be tweaked a little. What do y'all think of these?:
> 
> -The Fold
> -The Basilica
> ...



what about
THE
logically follows
all OTHER
are THEM
lots of M joke room for the zweebs.


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## moderan (Mar 16, 2019)

Olly Buckle said:


> Trademark ownership is not across the board, only in the classes you have registered, and if they are that old they may have let the registration drop, it lasts ten years.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-classify-trade-marks



They still tour afaik, just don't issue much product. I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing anyway.


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## Stormcat (Mar 21, 2019)

Hmm, browsing Wikipedia lead me to the term Zealots, which describes this awful group accurately But unfortunately, has already been claimed historically. This in turn led me to the Sicarii which has also been claimed but it gave me an idea.

If the term "Sicarii" means Dagger-men, maybe I could give the faithful an item or weapon they would carry to show their devotion. Maybe something similar to their logo, but I can't think of any items that look like that.


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## -xXx- (Mar 26, 2019)

Stormcat said:


> If the term "Sicarii" means Dagger-men, maybe I could give the faithful an item or weapon they would carry to show their devotion. Maybe something similar to their logo, but I can't think of any items that look like that.


modify throwing stars (shuriken).
there are some where sharps retract
until spun(centrifugal).
not that i would know such things....
_*spins pencil*
*do not attempt at home*
*for fiction ONLY*_


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## Stormcat (Mar 26, 2019)

-xXx- said:


> modify throwing stars (shuriken).
> there are some where sharps retract
> until spun(centrifugal).
> not that i would know such things....
> ...



I paid for the privilege of throwing some shurikens once, It was hard to make them go where intended. I'd imagine an untrained mob would only cause damage to themselves if they tried to use 'em. 

Nah, I think it would be better if they used their logo just as a symbol, and carry some other weapon to intimidate the masses.


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## Olly Buckle (Mar 26, 2019)

There was a bank robber talking about people using guns to rob banks who said if someone sees a gun they may think it is false, or you wouldn't use it, then if they have a go at you you have to decide if you are going to kill them. One of his gang would carry a heavy iron bar, there is always an oak table in a bank and he would smash it to pieces; nobody ever argued. If you want to intimidate small sharp things are not so good, give them something big, heavy, and obvious.


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