# is a "sex scene" necessary?



## Guitar_chick133 (Oct 16, 2007)

I was just thinking about two characters in the story I am working on. they fall for each other, but so far I havn't had them do anything with each other, even though there are other sexual referances scattered in it, I never found it something they should do, at first, then I kind of wondered if I should. it's not that I mind writing it, I don't, it's just I don't know if it makes a difference.


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## Erik Buchanan (Oct 16, 2007)

Guitar_chick133 said:


> I never found it something they should do...



I think you've answered your own question there, but here's my thoughts anyway:

Sex scenes are rarely necessary (though often fun). In some pieces they represent the climax (pun intended) of the story, and in others, give us an insight into how the characters feel, or something similar.  In many pieces they are just there for titillation (or amusement) value.

In a short story, you don't want anything extraneous. So, if them having sex and the audience reading about it will drive the story forward, go for it.  If not, don't bother.


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## Charlie_Eleanor (Oct 16, 2007)

Okay, from your title I was just going to say "Yes, a sex scene is always necessary."  

But, the truth is, if you don't think it is necessary don't do it.  Be confident in your own judgment.  Afterall, you know your characters the best.  You created them.


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## Damian_Rucci (Oct 17, 2007)

I think it is up to you, the writer. Sex scenes aren't always needed but can show the true feelings for two people and how their characters are coming together.


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## Buddy Glass (Oct 17, 2007)

Erik Buchanan said:


> Sex scenes are rarely necessary (though often fun). In some pieces they represent the climax (pun intended) of the story, and in others, give us an insight into how the characters feel, or something similar. In many pieces they are just there for titillation (or amusement) value.


 
Wait a minute. Rarely necessary? Just there for titillation?

I couldn't disagree more. Sex scenes, if present in a good work of literature, are rarely unnecessary (unless you're reading Updike). Read Ian McEwan's _First Love, Last Rites_, James Joyce's _Ulysses_, Haruki Murakami's _Norwegian Wood_ - all good examples of literature that features plenty of sex and/or sex scenes. None of them, in my opinion, are unnecessary or just there for titillation.

A sex scene, because they've often been subtle, cryptic or simply neglected in literature of the past, can be very powerful if treated efficiently. Sex is not as shallow a phenomenon as people think. Rather, it provides an interesting platform for the depiction of human nature and all that it entails. I mean, come on, it's the 21st century - if you're writing about lovers they're bound to have sex so don't tap-dance around it. Sex should no longer be a taboo.


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## Rumrunner (Oct 17, 2007)

Keep in mind that this thread has been posted in the scripts & plays category.  In a script format, you have a limited number of pages in which to construct your story;  every scene essentially must drive the story forward.  There are exceptions, perhaps, when adding a scene specifically for crucial characterization, etc.  But they must nevertheless add to the dramatic momentum in some way.  You really can't get away with including non-essential scenes, especially if you're trying to sell something on spec.

For this reason, if you don't think a sex scene is essential, then it's better to leave it out and put the pages to better use.  It can depend a little on your intended audience, of course -- if you're writing a Jessica Alba vehicle aimed mostly at 20-something men then a steamy sex scene may indeed help it sell.  But I think you can err on the side of caution and leave it out; especially since so many sex scenes tend to be terribly written.  Not saying yours will be, of course, but it's better not to open yourself up to potential weaknesses, especially in a spec script. If the producer / director really want one in there, they'll ask for it in revision.

Often times, too, there's a lot more intriguing drama and human nature to be explored when characters do "tap-dance around it," as Buddy Glass put it.  Think of the on-screen chemistry between, say, Bogart and Becall, compared to the lack thereof of many of today's stars & starlets who just jump right in.

--Rumrunner


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## Shawn (Oct 17, 2007)

> I think it is up to you, the writer. Sex scenes aren't always needed but can show the true feelings for two people and how their characters are coming together.



Or right after one another!


Really, though. If you want a sex scene... do it. If not, don't worry about it. Something as simple as a suggestive comment can do in some places. In others, it might need to be more explicit (not as in pornographic).

I really wouldn't know.


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## Damian_Rucci (Oct 17, 2007)

Shawn said:


> Or right after one another!
> 
> 
> Really, though. If you want a sex scene... do it. If not, don't worry about it. Something as simple as a suggestive comment can do in some places. In others, it might need to be more explicit (not as in pornographic).
> ...


exactly what I was going for! :afro:


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## Erik Buchanan (Oct 17, 2007)

Buddy Glass said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Sex scenes, if present in a good work of literature, are rarely unnecessary (unless you're reading Updike). Read Ian McEwan's _First Love, Last Rites_, James Joyce's _Ulysses_, Haruki Murakami's _Norwegian Wood_ - all good examples of literature that features plenty of sex and/or sex scenes. None of them, in my opinion, are unnecessary or just there for titillation.



First off, if you are capable of reading James Joyce's_ Ulysses_, then you are a better person than I. 

Second, you've given four examples, and I'm afraid I haven't read any of them but I will trust you that they are good examples.  You've also said the key words:_ If presented in a good work of literature.

_In good literature, there is nothing extraneous, including the sex.  Unfortunately, good literature is hard to find. If you look at the shelves you will find far more books (Updike among them, with the possible exception of _The Witches of Eastwick_) where the sex is there just for the sake of adding a little erotic effect and adds little to the story.

Thanks, Rumrunner, for the reminder that this thread is under scripts and plays, which makes it an entirely different beast from a novel.

On stage, if that's what you're writing, sex rarely works.  It usually looks contrived and rarely erotic or meaningful.  Unless you've got very good actors, offstage sex usually works better.

On film, I give the same answer as for stories.  As Rumrunner pointed out, your time is limited.  Put nothing in that doesn't advance the story. Especially for a short film. If you feel the sex is important to the story, include it.  If not, don't waste the precious time you've got.


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## Guitar_chick133 (Oct 17, 2007)

sorry about that , i said story in that i was talking about the "story" of my project ( script) but I also write short stories as well.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 18, 2007)

You can show the progress of the relationship without steamy scenes.  

Which either fit the mood of your story, or don't.  You are the one who decides that.

But you don't even need smoking cigarettes.  All that's required is her coming out of his bath in a robe,  or him popping out in his shorts to grab her newspaper on the lawn and raising the eyebrows of the nosy old bitch next door.  Etc.


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## C_K (Oct 18, 2007)

Sex scenes are cliche, although you can definitely imply it. If by scene you mean more than a few lines, then yeah it's always wasteful unless the story itself is about something or something major happens during the sex scene.

I prefer using sexual tension and innuendo, but I rarely would do a sex scene.

Just my opinion.

-CK


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## Buddy Glass (Oct 18, 2007)

C_K said:


> Sex scenes are cliche, although you can definitely imply it. If by scene you mean more than a few lines, then yeah it's always wasteful unless the story itself is about something or something major happens during the sex scene.
> 
> I prefer using sexual tension and innuendo, but I rarely would do a sex scene.
> 
> ...


 
How on earth is it cliché? It's not cliché if it's written right.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 18, 2007)

> Sex scenes are cliche, although you can definitely imply it. If by scene you mean more than a few lines, then yeah it's always wasteful unless the story itself is about something or something major happens during the sex scene.



It's hard to even start dissecting all the things wrong with those two seemingly simple sentences.
Best bet would be just to ignore them completely.


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## C_K (Oct 18, 2007)

Well, I guess I need to start prefacing my comments with the disclaimer: "This is my opinion." 

But if you would like to continue this pseudo-debate or if you would like further explanation, you can send me a private message. One at a time, please.

-CK


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## wyf (Oct 19, 2007)

C_K said:


> Sex scenes are cliche, although you can definitely imply it. If by scene you mean more than a few lines, then yeah it's always wasteful unless the story itself is about something or something major happens during the sex scene.


 
im finding it difficult imagining last tango in paris without the sex scenes. Pass the butter.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 19, 2007)

You want to discuss, this is a discussion board.

It doesn't matter if you say "In my opinion" or not.  Of course it's your opinion.

It's not a pseudo debate.  It's not a debate.

Those sentences are just nuts and need to be ignored.  Go back and READ them and see if YOU can figure out what you were trying to say.


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## C_K (Oct 19, 2007)

Well, I do admit to typing 'something' twice when I meant to say "sex" the first time, but if you can't understand the gist of those two sentences, then you aren't much of a reader.

I can dumb it down for you and do some extreme elaboration:

Sex is overused in writing, plays, movies... etc. However, since sex does happen in real life, you can bypass the drawn-out sex scene and either imply it or devote only a few lines. There is a small separation between romance novel and proving a point.

If your story is completely about sex, then what I said might not be true because, obviously, it would need to have sex in it. Or if something is accomplished during the sex that is essential to the plot, then it is (again, obviously) important to include it.

Most of the time, these things are not necessary. There is a huge chance of ruining your story and embarrassing yourself as a writer if you mess up during your sex scene, so having a sex scene just to have a sex scene seems to be an unnecessary risk.

As for Murakami's NW, I don't even know if all the sex was necessary. I believe he was writing sex to write sex. That's a good book, and I've read it plenty, but Murakami is obviously a pervert. Heh, a great writer, but a perverted, borderline-pedophile with an ear fetish. If you don't believe me, you haven't read enough of his writing. 

Out of all of his scenes in that book, although you can hardly call them scenes because they were not very drawn out, I'd say only the one between Reiko and her piano student, and the first sex scene between main and Naoko were important. Midori was my favorite character, but that scene was unnecessary... the kiss scene was infinitely more powerful. Face it, sometimes people like to write sex; it doesn't make them bad writers, but the question was NECESSITY. 

Anyway, this has been "Point, counterpoint, counter-counter point." So, I'll leave it at that. I felt needed to clear up that my first 'something' was supposed to be 'sex'...  

It happens.

-CK


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## Buddy Glass (Oct 20, 2007)

C_K said:


> Well, I do admit to typing 'something' twice when I meant to say "sex" the first time, but if you can't understand the gist of those two sentences, then you aren't much of a reader.
> 
> Most of the time, these things are not necessary. There is a huge chance of ruining your story and embarrassing yourself as a writer if you mess up during your sex scene, so having a sex scene just to have a sex scene seems to be an unnecessary risk.


It's as if you're just going on a random rant against sex scenes, though nothing you say seems grounded in anything specific. Perhaps some examples? Of course there's a risk, they're always a risk. But that risk is just as easily applied to other human actions in literature.



> As for Murakami's NW, I don't even know if all the sex was necessary. I believe he was writing sex to write sex. That's a good book, and I've read it plenty, but Murakami is obviously a pervert. Heh, a great writer, but a perverted, borderline-pedophile with an ear fetish. If you don't believe me, you haven't read enough of his writing.


A pervert? What do you have against sex? Lack of it? He's not a pervert because he writes about sex. Besides, there are writers whose work deals more obsessively and "pervertedly" with sex than Murakami's. 



> Anyway, this has been "Point, counterpoint, counter-counter point." So, I'll leave it at that. I felt needed to clear up that my first 'something' was supposed to be 'sex'...
> 
> It happens.
> 
> -CK


Don't get so touchy because people disagree. It happens.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 20, 2007)

It was dumbed down enough as it was.  That was my point.


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## Alex McKee (Oct 20, 2007)

Could end up ruining an otherwise excellent and serious piece of writing. Or you could manage to write a sex scene in which the characters act human.

I've yet to read a truly human sex scene.


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## wyf (Oct 21, 2007)

C_K said:


> Murakami is obviously a pervert.


 
I think you have some serious issues, young man. Murakamis sex scenes are essential in the context of the society in which they were written which is in many ways more repressed than ours.  you wont ever get the full benefit of murakamis books if all you read are the words on the page.


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## Guitar_chick133 (Oct 21, 2007)

Wow, I didn't know my question was going to spawn this much argument. I am still debating whether to put it in ( I'm not gonna, not until I can find a good enough reason. lol) unfortunatly I'm not as well read as some here, but I try. all this "debate" however is actually kind of inspiring to write something else


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## Wallmaker (Oct 26, 2007)

Okay, as far as scripts go... I say ... MAYBE!  Good questions to ask yourself...what type of a script is it?  If is't a sexy romantic comedy where these two characters want each other badly?  Then, I'd say--hell yes, that's gonna sell your script.  If these are people who are getting to know each other, or are shy, reserved, waiting for the right person, maybe sex isn't right for them...

Here's what your story seems to be about: exploring these two characters and their relationship.  And maybe that's a progression.  Maybe they start out as strangers, then associates, then friends, maybe lovers...then, yeah we have to know they're lovers.  Or maybe they start out lovers, and the relationship falls apart as they become more estranged...  Either way, a sex scene tells us something about them and their relationship.  That's what's gonna matter.

Explore your story, and you'll have your answer.  On how much to show... well, that's another question... maybe you don't want actors and actresses to turn down a stellar part because they're not comfortable with it...or maybe we don't need to see much... A comedy could start out two people making out in the hallway of a hotel room, tearing each other's clothes off, fumbling for the room key... 
then we cut to him and her in bed, as far away from one another as possible...wierded out.  It didn't go well.  She says, I thought every guy liked to be called "princess" in bed...

Well, jeez, we can fill in the blank pretty well now, can't we?  in fact, it's even better in our heads.


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## Bryuko (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, I love sex (who doesn't?) Personally, I never liked graphic sex scenes in novels though. I never could shake the feeling that authors who get carried away with it are undersexed and are using their writing as a prelude to masturbation.


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## Linton Robinson (Oct 26, 2007)

> I've yet to read a truly human sex scene.


You have GOT to get your head out of all that sheep porn.


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## futurewriter18 (Oct 28, 2007)

I say do what you feel is best. Personally i would prefer a sex scence only to show the true passion and love that have for each other. I think it adds a certain hotness to a story. Sometimes I pick up a book just to skim through to the sex scenes but then again that's just me.


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## lazerbeak (Oct 28, 2007)

It's interesting that people seem quite hung up on this... there's a prolonged sex scene thread in one of the other topic headings on this forum too. 

Personally, I don't see the big deal. Include/exclude them with the same discretion you would use over any setting or action. You'll know if it fits.


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