# Self Publishing vs. Traditional Publishing?



## scerys (May 14, 2018)

Hello, 

I was hoping to open a discussion about the pros and cons of both self publishing and traditional publishing. I've been doing a lot of research but I would love to get some advice from people with first hand experience. I'm still in the process of writing my initial novel but I want to do as much research and consideration as possible while I'm writing it. 

Thank you, 

S. C. Bright


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## Jack of all trades (May 14, 2018)

Self publishing : 

Pro : 
I set the time table and don't have to meet an external deadline, possibly at the expense of quality.
I have the final say on everything from content to cover.

Con : 
There is no one else double checking my work automatically. I have to seek out feedback.
I am the one responsible for marketing.


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## Bayview (May 14, 2018)

I usually work with publishers but I occasionally self-publish stuff (I keep reading raves from people in self-publishing and thinking I need to give it another chance...)

I vastly prefer working with publishers, mostly because I get significantly higher sales for significantly less effort.

I don't want to be an entrepreneur. I don't enjoy marketing or developing business plans or networking. I want to write my stories and then get money. So for me, self-publishing has too much of what I don't want to do and then not enough of what I want.

A big benefit of self-publishing, of course, is that you can do it whenever you want. No gatekeepers. But that's the downside as well, because there are so many people publishing work that would previously have been "unpublishable". It's really, really hard to get attention for good writing in the flood of less-than-good writing.


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## Carly Berg (May 14, 2018)

Traditional/trade publishing covers a lot of territory. So to answer your question I'd have to know which publishing company you had in mind. For example, I can't think of any reason I'd turn down an offer by one of the "big five" (the very largest publishing companies). At the other end of it, there are lots of tiny publishing companies that are much easier to get accepted by. They're usually operated by someone who self-publishes, then decides to publish other writers' books too. Personally, I don't think these "micro-presses" have enough to offer me to offset giving them a chunk of my profits and control. On the spectrum between the big five and the micro-presses, there are many others. I'd be happy with some and would pass on others.

I start by considering each book I'm writing and its likely prospects in the market. I enjoy writing how-to books under another pen name, for example. I self-publish them because I think they have too small of a market for a larger press to be interested _or _because a book _by me on _the topic has too small of a market for a larger press to be interested. The big houses, understandably, want big names because obviously they sell lots of books, whether because the author is a top expert in the field _or_ a celebrity in general. However, not every topic falls neatly under the "credentialed expert" umbrella. There's still a place in the market for things like Ms. Nobody's homemade cat toy patterns, ideas for in-demand businesses you can start on a shoestring, etc. 

Other types of books that I'd self-publish would also be by default, when I'd think (and my informal research on Amazon would verify) a press as large as I'd want wouldn't be interested. For one example, poetry by unknown authors is not known for being in demand by publishers. So I'd probably go straight to self-publishing with something like that as well.

But if I had written a type of book that I thought had a reasonable shot with a larger press, I'd try for that first. If you're writing a novel, I'd definitely suggest trying the (higher end) traditional/trade route first.

Whatever you do, I'd just be clear on _why _you're doing it. Unfortunately, many self-published books are poorly done, and "not of publishable quality" isn't a good reason to go with self-publishing.


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## Ralph Rotten (May 14, 2018)

Bayview said:


> I usually work with publishers but I occasionally self-publish stuff (I keep reading raves from people in self-publishing and thinking I need to give it another chance...)
> 
> I vastly prefer working with publishers, mostly because I get significantly higher sales for significantly less effort.
> 
> ...




Yep!
The flipside is that many a hopeful writer has been crushed under the wheels of the query process.  Writing is great, but looking for an agent or publisher sucks, and the chronic rejection can destroy your will to write.  
But working with a big publisher is better.  More sales, less work.
Being an Indie is a shitpile of work and shameless self-promotion...but no queries.


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## Ralph Rotten (May 14, 2018)

Oh, and being an Indie means you have to learn a whole buncha new skills like photoshop, html, Epub builders, web building...


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## Carly Berg (May 14, 2018)

Ralph Rotten said:


> Oh, and being an Indie means you have to learn a whole buncha new skills like photoshop, html, Epub builders, web building...



Good point. Self-publishing definitely comes with a learning curve.


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## moderan (May 14, 2018)

You shouldn't even consider self-publishing until you've mastered those skills and have an audience already. Self-publishing works best when you have something outside usual interests or formats. It's really not a dumping ground for crap nobody else would even consider putting out.
But so few people do any homework these days. They just chuck their crap out there and then cry when it doesn't sell or someone gives it a pan read. Nobody wants to take advice because there are too many people offering it, and if you don't have a clue, it's hard to discern which is viable and valuable.


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## scerys (May 14, 2018)

Carly Berg said:


> Good point. Self-publishing definitely comes with a learning curve.



That's another reason I considered self publishing. I'm already relatively familiar with a lot of basic skills like that including photoshop and marketing. I have an internship in web building this Summer, and my book won't be ready to even go through the editing process until probably about November depending on how my Beta Readings go. I've also been an artist for 14 years so that's another advantage.


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## scerys (May 14, 2018)

Bayview said:


> I usually work with publishers but I occasionally self-publish stuff (I keep reading raves from people in self-publishing and thinking I need to give it another chance...)
> 
> I vastly prefer working with publishers, mostly because I get significantly higher sales for significantly less effort.
> 
> ...




See that's where I'm stuck on. I like marketing. I used to do it for my data entry position and I've always enjoyed it. I have a following already, though it is small. I make friends easily and have a lot of connections here in town with librarians, bookstores, and museums. I want to have my book professionally edited, and I know that will cost a lot but when it comes to self publishing I've heard that's one of the biggest mistakes. My current book is also dystopia, so I figured that might go over a lot better with an actual publisher. Essentially I'm just trying to do my research and get as much knowledge about it as I can before I make my decision.


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## scerys (May 14, 2018)

Carly Berg said:


> Traditional/trade publishing covers a lot of territory. So to answer your question I'd have to know which publishing company you had in mind. For example, I can't think of any reason I'd turn down an offer by one of the "big five" (the very largest publishing companies). At the other end of it, there are lots of tiny publishing companies that are much easier to get accepted by. They're usually operated by someone who self-publishes, then decides to publish other writers' books too. Personally, I don't think these "micro-presses" have enough to offer me to offset giving them a chunk of my profits and control. On the spectrum between the big five and the micro-presses, there are many others. I'd be happy with some and would pass on others.
> 
> 
> Thank you! Your input was very helpful. I have thought about whether or not my genre of book would be of interest to big name publishers, and it is something that's very popular with readers but there are a lot of big names writing this genre already. Traditionally published or not I want to have my book professionally edited, and have done extensive research on the process a book goes through before it's published on both sides...which is why I've reached a bit of an impasse. My book will be of publishing quality either way, but I've been weighing the pros and cons based on research but have very slim amounts of personal accounts. A good chunk of self published authors I know have failed quite miserably, but many of them hate the marketing aspect or didn't see it as very necessary. I personally have done marketing before for jobs I've worked at and market my art. I find it a rather enjoyable experience because it allows people to see me as another person rather than being associated with a company. I'm able to really engage with my audience. Though I've heard that with self publishing you have to do just as much marketing, but you're more likely to get an advance that funds it. More than likely I'll choose to go the traditional publishing route, but I always like to research and explore my options.


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## scerys (May 14, 2018)

moderan said:


> You shouldn't even consider self-publishing until you've mastered those skills and have an audience already. Self-publishing works best when you have something outside usual interests or formats. It's really not a dumping ground for crap nobody else would even consider putting out.
> But so few people do any homework these days. They just chuck their crap out there and then cry when it doesn't sell or someone gives it a pan read. Nobody wants to take advice because there are too many people offering it, and if you don't have a clue, it's hard to discern which is viable and valuable.




Thank you for your input. I understand your viewpoint on self-publishing and will keep it in mind when I make my decision about my publishing route!


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## Thaumiel (May 14, 2018)

Hey, just thought I'd pop in to give a friendly pointer to the multi-quote option. The little icon with a + symbol to the right of the normal quote button will let you put multiple quotes into one post. Just click it for all of the posts you wish to quote then hit the standard quote button to finish. Neatens posts up a little bit.

Of course I'm using a computer, so if you're on a mobile device it might be different...


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## scerys (May 14, 2018)

I was on a mobile device, but I didn't know that for the computer I haven't been on in a long while. Thank you for that!


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## Pete_C (May 15, 2018)

There's a few things to consider. Differences do exist regarding genre. For example, I work in traditional publishing and so I know my way around it. However, I write in a very niche genre and the publishers who are relevant to me are few and tend to deal directly with authors. Once upon a time just getting a book out in their imprints guaranteed that readers would be aware of it, because they were the specialists. However, in recent years they have expanded their operations greatly and as a result much of the onus for marketing now falls onto authors themselves.

Their rates are okay (50 per cent net revenue) and they have decent traction with the audience and I was all set to go down that route.

Then I changed my mind.

My inner punk told me to go it alone. If I'm going to be doing much of the marketing I might as well have all the decisions in my hands. I might as well have the cover I want and the launch strategy I want and the formats I want. It's not like any part of the process is too daunting or expensive. I had a sort of 'eureka' moment about total independence.

With a niche genre I am never going to be a best seller or become a rich man from my novel. It's not about that. It's about generating a novel that like-minded people want to read. I earn a good living so the money doesn't matter as much. Yes, I want every cent I can earn from the book, but I won't starve if it's a slow burner.

To me, doing it myself is fun, interesting and challenging, so I like it for that. 

However, I am still at the editing stage and reserve the right to change my mind again as some interest in seeing the final MSS has been mooted.


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## bdcharles (May 15, 2018)

Pete_C said:


> I write in a very niche genre and the publishers who are relevant to me are few and tend to deal directly with authors



What is your genre?


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## Non Serviam (May 15, 2018)

My first book-length non-fiction piece started out as a self-published work.  After I'd sold a couple of thousand copies on Lulu, I got an offer from a small press publisher that was attractive enough to accept, so now it's published by someone else.

Unless you're J.K.Rowling you are not going to get rich via either route.  The only reliable way to make a small fortune as a writer is to start with a large one.

Self-publishing can be genuinely better for you than traditional publishing.  This is most likely to be true if you're an acknowledged subject matter expert writing in a specialist field -- so for example, if you're a university lecturer in applied mathematics and you've written an orbital mechanics textbook that's on the required reading list for your students; or if you're a gene therapist who's written a procedure that'll correct a certain kind of birth defect; or if you're a lawyer who's discovered a technical loophole that lets you engineer a six month extension on a key patent; then you're going to be better off self-publishing.  The ideal situation is that you're selling books for US$75-US$250 a copy and you're expecting to sell no more than a thousand.

If, on the other hand, you're an unknown and you've just written your debut piece of genre fiction, then the traditional publishing route leads to about three years of rejection slips and crappy advice followed by, if you're lucky, an uninspiring advance from a small press publisher who expects you to sell the work yourself by going on book signing tours; and the self-publishing route leads to you learning to use about four kinds of specialist software and discovering more about kerning than you ever wish to know, followed at some distance of time by a small cash return.  If you're persistent and lucky then you too can join the growing throng of self-published hopefuls earning literally dozens of dollars a month.

Literary talent has very little to do with earnings, I'm afraid.


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## Bayview (May 15, 2018)

Non Serviam said:


> If, on the other hand, you're an unknown and you've just written your debut piece of genre fiction, then the traditional publishing route leads to about three years of rejection slips and crappy advice followed by, if you're lucky, an uninspiring advance from a small press publisher who expects you to sell the work yourself by going on book signing tours; and the self-publishing route leads to you learning to use about four kinds of specialist software and discovering more about kerning than you ever wish to know, followed at some distance of time by a small cash return.  If you're persistent and lucky then you too can join the growing throng of self-published hopefuls earning literally dozens of dollars a month.



Because the Big Five never sign new authors?


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## Ralph Rotten (May 15, 2018)

NonS:
"After I'd sold a couple of thousand copies on Lulu"
You should start a thread and talk about marketing on Lulu.  It would make for a good thread.


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## Pete_C (May 16, 2018)

bdcharles said:


> What is your genre?


Neo-absurdism.

Bet you wish you'd never asked!


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## Phil Istine (May 16, 2018)

The chances of getting my work out there will be close to zero without self publishing, so that's what I will do when my time comes, even if it's solely an electronic product.
I know this is unlikely to have much of a market, but I will be aiming for a short publication of a certain type of poetry.
I don't expect to make money with this, but that's not what it's about: my goal is to experience a piece of the learning curve before I attempt longer pieces.


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## Non Serviam (May 16, 2018)

Ralph Rotten said:


> NonS:
> "After I'd sold a couple of thousand copies on Lulu"
> You should start a thread and talk about marketing on Lulu.  It would make for a good thread.



The trouble is that my marketing techniques aren't useful to most people. The book I'm talking about's a nonfiction work that retails at US$26 a copy and is sold via internet marketing or at face to face gatherings to the small community of people who're extremely nerdy about a thing that I'm also extremely nerdy about.  

What I did was find a group of people who're willing to believe that I'm a subject matter expert, and who're prepared to recommend my book to each other as the state of the art, authoritative text on a very specialist thing.


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## Ralph Rotten (May 16, 2018)

But how is Lulu different from Amazon for marketing?  How did your book's price compare to createspace?  How were they to publish with?
Details...we need all the dirty details! :twisted:


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