# Please, critique this protagonist (for a dystopian YA book)



## Art3mis (Jul 12, 2018)

*Name:* Liberty Smith
*Age:* 17
*Gender:* female
*Occupation:* Smith
*Nationality:* (Today American) 
*Caste:* 6
*Height:* 1.78 meters
*Weight:* 56 Kg
*Hair color:* Brown
*Eye color:* Green
*Skin pale:* pale
*Other appearance:* Liberty has thick fingers, oval face, and an Egyptian foot shape. She got long, wavy hair. Because of her job, she often has dirt and sweat on her face.
*Opinion about own appearance:* It’s ok. The soul is the source for success.
*Accent:* In the contrast of the “big three”, her caste accents and those castes below uses a casual style of speech.
*Marital status:* Single
*Handicaps?: *No.
*Style of dress:* Liberty often wears simple clothes because she can’t pay for designer stuff. And because of her caste, she only wears dark green.
*Brothers/sisters:* She got two brothers and one younger sister. The old brother is long-lost. He joined the rebels.
*Relationship with the parents:* Her mother wants only the best for her and the other children. Her Dad works in their forge. To be honest, he could be a BFF. Liberty could talk about everything with him.
*Memories about childhood:* Besides school, she often works in the forge. Early practice! Liberty played with the neighbors’ children.
*Neat or messy:* Messy
*Pets?:* No. They couldn’t pay for it.
*Enemies? Why?:* The mean girl among the chosens. Because the mean girl wants the prince more than Liberty.
*Basic nature:* ESFP
*What does the character fear:* drowning
*What is the character proud of:* doesn’t belong to the “big three”.
*What’s the character ashamed of* To see and know that no one can play out his/her full talent. And she can’t change something.
*The outlook of life:* realistic.
*How is she seen by others:* A strong girl, who has self-doubts here and there.
*Do you like her:* Yeah! I like her because she is no mean girl (with double standard).
*Will the readers like her?*: Yes and no. I can’t say it because the reader decides it. #asktheperspective
*Present problem:* be a chosen one
*How it will get worse: *There is one girl, who makes the life to a real hell


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## Darkkin (Jul 12, 2018)

This is a character sheet for an RPG. There is nothing too critique.  Write the character instead of handing us their ID.  Somebody hands you a driver's license what are you going to do?  Say, 'Hey, this person sounds amazing!' (facepalm).

 Reality check.  Write the character.  Lists like this are a guide to help *YOU *do that.  You might as well be asking us to critique a laundry list.  This is a character out of context.  No meaning, no action, no identity.  Write.  And please figure out what the purpose and function of critique are.  It is not to approve all aspects of your story idea.  And starting individual threads for critique of all characters involved...Please don't.

Are we supposed to tell you she should snap gum, have green hair, and spit?  And just like with the flood of fill in the blank idea exercise threads it is not what your character looks like but what they do.  The *ACTUAL WRITING* involved.  The mind and actions of the character, not their ID.  No one cares about their foot shape, moreover, how does an Egyptian foot differ from say, the Hobbit (yes, the Homo floresienis fossil) feet? Why include it unless it is relevant to the storyline?

Print your list off, pin it to a bulletin board or wall and then write context to put them in.  Give yourself a visual construct, if it helps.   Repeat the process and then let them interact.  Write that down and post it to the creative forums.  Found here.

A little more recommended reading as to how the forums work and basics to keep in mind can be found here.

How do you measure someone based on an ID?  Maybe they invented the cure for cancer and because of a bad ID picture, Pete decideds the guy is an escaped serial killer.  This is why context matters.  We profile based on appearance, but it is in the action that reality rests.


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## Birb (Jul 12, 2018)

What Darkkin said. All this stuff means nothing, really. How will us knowing that this girl has an Egyptian foot shape in any way help us or the reader get to know or appreciate the character. Why do we care? Personality is the main thing that will be on display when you write, and the only information you give us here is shallow stuff you might put into a Facebook profile. You don't know a random person because you've read their Facebook profile. Furthermore, this isn't even a decent RPG character sheet. For one, there isnt nearly enough detail in the parts such as her relationships or whatever. The idea of an epg character sheet is to get all the backstory and character written down so that people know it, because it will never ever show up again. Most of your bits and pieces of her reference things, but they don't reference any of the WHY. If you were gonna use it for an RPG another person would need to (or find incredibly useful) the why. I don't even like RPGs.

Also. Why even include a question "will the reader like her" if you answer your own question saying you wouldn't know. It doesn't make sense to do thst


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## Darkkin (Jul 12, 2018)

Online writing RPGs, if you can find an active one, are actually a good way of field testing a character, especially if you get stuck.  The situations, characters in alien context, forces writers to approach things differently and adapt on the fly.  It can be quite fun with the right group.


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## Pete_C (Jul 12, 2018)

Too tall.


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Art3mis said:


> *Name:* Liberty Smith
> *Age:* 17
> *Gender:* female
> *Occupation:* Smith
> ...



This would not be my choice for creating a character, but since you want to try it, I'll play along.

At 17 she has an occupation? You say she is a smith, but what kind? Goldsmith, silversmith, or is she working with iron? Being a smith is a tough job, and unusual for a girl.

You say the time is today, but there's not a lot of smiths working in modern times. So much of that work is automated.

It seems a bit coincidental in modern times for her last name to reflect her occupation.


At this point, I'm getting the feeling that this is an alternate reality or other world, which is fine, if that's what you want to do.


She wants to be chosen. For what? (Maybe I missed that.)

I'm a little surprised you went with the typical brown hair, brown eyes and pale skin. Nothing wrong with that. It just surprised me. (Oops! Just double checked and saw the eyes are green! Sorry for my mistake.)

I'm a little confused by the caste reference. What does the number 6 mean?


Those are the points I remember from reading through it. I may have missed something.


I've also read that some writers interview their main characters to get to know them better. Personally, I like to write scenes using the characters, but to each his or her own!


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## Art3mis (Jul 12, 2018)

No. Err... That story is set in the future. (And I don’t know if I write it. Because I have another idea. Again!)


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Art3mis said:


> No. Err... That story is set in the future. (And I don’t know if I write it. Because I have another idea. Again!)



Future? You said, " Today, American".

Ah! The problem of too many ideas. Don't worry. You'll find one you like enough to get a story down. 

(Don't let negative comments get in your way.)


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## Darkkin (Jul 12, 2018)

Also, working outdoors or in industry, as forges imply, one does not remain relatively small and pale for long.  These are basic physiological and environmental effects.  The smaller, paler folks tended to be a bit more sheltered.  People who do hard, physicial labour and/or sports generally have the musculature to prove it.  Look at swimmers and construction workers.  Lean mass tends to develop from running or tasks requiring endurence, not speed or physical strength.  And since this is dystopian, and no regions have been given (outside the Pacific Northwest), sunlight is usually a factor and I'm guessing sunblock is not high on the list priorities, darkening of the skin will occur, unless it remains covered, in which case it becomes irrelevant. These are all nonessential, everyday details that are of more immediate impact than an Egyptian foot shape...Priorities.

Nondefined terms:  

Caste 6.  No context.  How is the reader supposed to know what this is, why it exists, and how it impacts the character?

No observable geogrpahic identifiers, location, setting.  Except North America.  That is a lot of territory.

No quantified details on government and events leading to this caste system and why there is now royalty in North America.  Basic history and geography need to be addressed and accessible to the reader.

Who and what are the big three?


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## Art3mis (Jul 12, 2018)

Since when... Or do ya mean the Nationality stuff? I didn’t have a name for the kingdom in the future, which would be the present North American.


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Art3mis said:


> Since when... Or do ya mean the Nationality stuff? I didn’t have a name for the kingdom in the future, which would be the present North American.



Yes. I mean the nationality info. That led me to believe that you intended this to be set in 2018 or so USA. 

But I gather that's wrong. So this is a kingdom? When? Is it Earth? If so, where on Earth? (Right! North America! Sorry. Having a bad day.)


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## Art3mis (Jul 12, 2018)

Yes! It’s a kingdoom. Maybe 2100.


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Art3mis said:


> Yes! It’s a kingdoom. Maybe 2100.



Alright. A kingdom in 2100, North America.

What kind of smith?


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## Art3mis (Jul 12, 2018)

@Jack of all trades I don’t know. A Smith for everything.


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Art3mis said:


> @Jack of all trades I don’t know. A Smith for everything.



Gold and silver smiths might be interchangeable, but working with iron or steel would be different. Gold and silver pieces are usually more decorative. Iron and steel pieces are generally larger and/or more functional.

Something to think about.

I'm trying to think of shows or movies that showed a smithy. Dr. Quinn, I think had one. He was a blacksmith, working with iron. I can't think of any gold or silver smiths being shown any where. Maybe you could Google the various smiths to get some info on the subject.


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## Annoying kid (Jul 12, 2018)

> Lean mass tends to develop from running or tasks requiring endurence, not speed or physical strength.



No. Lean mass tends to develop from drugs in women. Not from running or exercise. So many are doping perceptions on what is naturally achievable have been warped.


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## Darkkin (Jul 12, 2018)

Annoying kid said:


> No. Lean mass tends to develop from drugs in women. Not from running or exercise. So many are doping perceptions on what is naturally achievable have been warped.




Specific drug classifications?  Steroid?  Recreational?  Perscription?  Over the counter diet aids?  Which doping perceptions, specifically?  Interesting background research potential for sociological aspects within fictional constructs. Links?  Given provided context, probably irrelevant to the situation detailed.  Modern society having ceased decades before.  Might be interesting to consider what aspect the remnants of modern medicine have on a dystopian society.  Much like Europe after the fall of Rome, potential context for the character.  e.g.  A caste system based on jobs, jobs determined by caste and so forth.  Medicine available to the different caste systems.  Plot devices derived from issues instigated by such situations.


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## Annoying kid (Jul 12, 2018)

Darkkin said:


> Specific drug classifications?  Steroid?  Recreational?  Perscription?  Over the counter diet aids?  Which doping perceptions, specifically?  Organised sports?  If so which ones?



Pro sports and fitness media, with not only drugs but digital manipulation of bodies. I'm talking about performance enhancers. Not just anabolic steroids and hormones in general, including insulin, but cardiovascular and thyroid stimulants as well as diuretics. Estrogen causes the body to hold fat and water even at the expense of skeletal muscle. So a woman with an estrogen dominant endocrine system will never be capable of getting "cut" naturally, much less "ripped" and keep a respectable muscle mass. Snap out of it people.


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## Darkkin (Jul 12, 2018)

Annoying kid said:


> Pro sports and fitness media, with not only drugs but digital manipulation of bodies. I'm talking about performance enhancers. Not just anabolic steroids and hormones in general, including insulin, but cardiovascular and thyroid stimulants as well as diuretics. Estrogen causes the body to hold fat and water even at the expense of skeletal muscle. So a woman with an estrogen dominant endocrine system will never be capable of getting "cut" naturally, much less "ripped" and keep a respectable muscle mass. Snap out of it people.



So not relevant to provided criteria of the profile...   Just trying to keep on topic.

  Average is average for a reason, but people if they work with their hands or are involved with physical labour usually will display some physical evidence of their trade.  e.g.  My grandfather is a farmer, he has a deep farmer's tan, always has.  My uncle, too.   It is an aspect of characterisation.  Their hands alone tell stories in the callouses and arthritis, but the skills, the work by done with those hands is not something learned in a classroom.  It is something that takes way more practice than typing on a keyboard.  It is a detail that can help personalise a character, let the reader empathise a bit.  Working with metal.  Possible burn scars, nicked fingers, unusual dexterity, good estimation skills for weights and quality of materials.  Small traits, skills and details that can be brought into play later in a story.

Say Character X is paid for a job by Character Y, Y hands X a leather purse.  X knows exactly how much the silver for Job Q should weight.  The purse is too heavy!  X looks at Y, Y says, 'I have a proposition for you...'

People's jobs will have an impact on their characteristics, both physically and emotionally, be it fiction or real life.

Critique means approaching material from a neutral standpoint and taking critical thinking into account.  It is an observation, no more, no less.


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## Annoying kid (Jul 12, 2018)

It's relevant if the OP is about to make the typical fantasy writer's mistake: Give everybody who has a physical job a modern athlete's or worse a bodybuilder's physique. Or in the reverse, take a modern blacksmith and think of a medieval set up, with dirt and sweat on their face most the time or burn scars. That's just not the way it is with modern smithing.


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## Darkkin (Jul 12, 2018)

Metallurgy throughout history is often overlooked and taken for granted because it requires hard, physical work.  The extraction, manipulation, and transmutation of raw ore into purified metals and alloys.   Smiths were among the first inventors, scientists, and engineers.  No small feat.  They make the tools that allow for progress.  Another possible story arc, the invention with the potential to help or to harm.


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## Art3mis (Jul 12, 2018)

Oh! There I have to disappoint you. It’s still the same - except, in a factory! Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ID_JebxRic


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## Darkkin (Jul 12, 2018)

We are supposed to be disappointed in the hypothetical?  It is the creative process, as in work in progress...Conclusions to be drawn after the completion of the process, which is why 'critique' on ideas and characters is ineffective because the creative process has not be allowed to play out. e.g.  A reader can be disappointed by a book, not the idea of a character out of context.

The creative process belongs to the writer, not the reader, thusly, is neither right nor wrong, but unique to the individual.  The completed work is the neutral (common) ground of the writer and the reader.

And which ever way one slices it, smithing work is a skill, it can start with horse shoes and lead to Faberge Eggs. A practiced manual dexterity to shape and manipulate metals.


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## Kevin (Jul 12, 2018)

High school cross country teams are not on steriods. Nor are middle-school gymnastics kids. Girls with six-packs happen without the use of any enhancers.


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Annoying kid said:


> No. Lean mass tends to develop from drugs in women. Not from running or exercise. So many are doping perceptions on what is naturally achievable have been warped.



Are you saying women and girls can't be lean? Lean simply means little fat. It doesn't mean zero fat, nor does it mean muscular.


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## Annoying kid (Jul 12, 2018)

Art3mis said:


> Oh! There I have to disappoint you. It’s still the same - except, in a factory! Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ID_JebxRic



Indeed a factory. That's a big difference. For instance how is it the same when he's using a modern blowtorch to reach high localized temperatures, quickly and efficiently?


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## Annoying kid (Jul 12, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> Are you saying women and girls can't be lean? Lean simply means little fat. It doesn't mean zero fat, nor does it mean muscular.



No, I'm not saying women and girls can't be lean. That isn't what I said in the part you quoted. That quote addresses the development of lean body mass.


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Annoying kid said:


> No, I'm not saying women and girls can't be lean. That isn't what I said in the part you quoted. That quote addresses the development of lean body mass.




Alright. Lean body mass : 



> Your lean body mass is the amount of weight you carry on your body that isn't fat. The goal of any bodybuilder or fitness enthusiast is to drop weight while keeping your lean body mass the same, in other words, dropping your body fat percentage.
> Calculate Your Lean Body Mass! -Bodybuilding.com
> https://www. bodybuilding.com/.../lbm_ ...



So lean body mass is little fat. 

And I know this is just Wikipedia, but there's pictures that show young women can be lean and muscular, probably without drugs, as at least one is from 1939.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_athletics_in_Australia


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## Annoying kid (Jul 12, 2018)

Jack of all trades said:


> Alright. Lean body mass :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lean body mass development is muscular hypertrophy while retaining a low bodyfat percentage. I'm not sure what point you're making as the women in that photo are around 22% bodyfat and aren't muscular.


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## Jack of all trades (Jul 12, 2018)

Annoying kid said:


> Lean body mass development is muscular hypertrophy while retaining a low bodyfat percentage. I'm not sure what point you're making as the women in that photo are around 22% bodyfat and aren't muscular.



Source, please.


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## luckyscars (Jul 13, 2018)

Art3mis said:


> *Name:* Liberty Smith
> *Age:* 17
> *Gender:* female
> *Occupation:* Smith
> ...



Putting aside that I think asking for a critique on random factoids about a character, with no story or even synopsis for a context and therefore no way to tell what, if any, of this information is actually going to be relevant to the story is downright odd...I find it rather difficult to be impressed at your imaginative skills here.

I believe you said this is set in the future in America. If this is set in the future why is this protagonist a green-eyed, pale Caucasian when we know now that non-Hispanic Caucasians will almsot certainly be a minority in the US before the midway mark in this century? If this is a true futuristic dystopian world why does almost everything about this character, and the little snippets you reveal about her world, resemble something very much like 2018, only with odd anachronistic concepts such as princes and working in a forge drizzled in with no explanation due to no story? I don't know. I don't know what kind of dystopia it is where a girl can be named "Liberty" and live in a standard nuclear family and play with neighbors. Sounds actually quite nice, not dystopian at all. So at best my impression is you have written something that sounds extremely safe as far as the 'dystopian' genre is concerned. At worst it sounds completely boring and unimaginative. 

It's not a deal breaker, though. You can have a dystopian world that resembles on the surface an ordinary, even quite a pleasant, one...however without the context of a story one must judge your character profile and the scant information it contains on its own merits and I see nothing here that makes me think you have an original character let alone an original story. I therefore suggest you get to work proving me wrong.


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## J T Chris (Jul 14, 2018)

What are you going to do with all your feedback? I don't expect you're going to write anything.


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## Dormouse (Jul 15, 2018)

J T Chris said:


> What are you going to do with all your feedback?



Maybe that’s the book. The Feedback Loop.


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## Theglasshouse (Jul 15, 2018)

Art3mis, has a mentor now which is good news. I think, harper cole volunteered and someone else could have. 

My advice: write lots of dialogue and include a conflict (between two characters), and see if a story takes shape. (a conflict creates a story) Even a lot of outlining can be either good or bad. Remember conflict, read book examples and revisit it by trying it yourself as a writing exercise.

Writing can be both a discovery process and inspiration. Don't wait for inspiration if possible (which is a human mistake) and write away.

It worked for me, and now I have a story without an outline. I saved it to my computer without putting it out there and am waiting until it is the final draft. (people who will look at it)

Misbehavior from characters is the best sort of conflict. It must be justified. (john trunby says all characters in fiction misbehave, that is the source of a moral conflict or argument).


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## Jonthom (Jul 16, 2018)

I find I develop characters best by writing them and building as I go, rather than by having a blueprint in advance.

Maybe try writing a few pieces of flash fiction in this world with this character and see what comes to you?


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