# At Any Cost, to You



## Gyarachu (Jul 7, 2016)

If you would please be so kind
to keep your protests peaceful—
tut-tut! No squirming now, how _very_ uncivil.
Into the oven you go—that’s it, single file please.

Rest assured, your feedback is sterling,
but make no mistake, we _will_ have order.


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## ned (Jul 7, 2016)

hello - the writing is rather literal and prose-like - so, the only poetical issue 
we are left with for discussion here is the overall message - which is not that clear.
it all depends on the 'oven' being also literal. or a metaphore - take your pick.

hmm - the voice is confident, and the narrator has undoubted power over those addressed -
perhaps, a glib spin on the parable of the almighty expelling mankind from the garden -
or the prophet leading his people into the desert...

maybe, an account of the holocust, put out of kilter by the school-master language
but revealing an overall condemnation of the meek and submissive role of the victims.

who knows? - but it is a shame when poetry is reduced to a guessing game -
a much more expressive title might clarify things for the reader from the off.

for me, poetry is not about broken prose, made deliberately mysterious
poetry is just the opposite - revelation of one kind or another

if it is the latter guess - then, in that context, the poem is well underscored by a chilling final line -

cheers
Ned


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## Bard_Daniel (Jul 7, 2016)

Ned brought up some great points. I like your piece and feel with just a little more clarity and directness it could become even better. Just my two cents! Thanks for sharing!


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## Gyarachu (Jul 7, 2016)

It was written in response to the recent Alton Sterling shooting (and those before it), and a plea by the authorities for protestors to remain peaceful in the wake of the event. It came across as a "please remain peaceful while we slaughter you one by one" type of deal. Not that I don't think the protests ought to be peaceful, it just seemed sickeningly ironic.

The poem should be much clearer in that context.


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## ned (Jul 7, 2016)

so.....what is the oven all about?


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## Gyarachu (Jul 7, 2016)

ned said:


> so.....what is the oven all about?



A government slaughtering its people, an oven...

I have faith in you to put this one together, ned.


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## ned (Jul 8, 2016)

hello - fair enough, if you do not want to explain the finer points of your poem -
I hate having to explain my work! -

and the tragic incidents your poem refers to can hardly be called -
"A government slaughtering its people"

but rather, the unfortunate but enevitable consequences of a society that
has an ingrained 'gun culture' - where every citizen is potentially armed.

and I'm afraid your faith in me is misplaced...

but thanks for the thought
Ned


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## Nellie (Jul 9, 2016)

Gyarachu said:


> It was written in response to the recent Alton Sterling shooting (and those before it), and a plea by the authorities for protestors to remain peaceful in the wake of the event. It came across as a "please remain peaceful while we slaughter you one by one" type of deal. Not that I don't think the protests ought to be peaceful, it just seemed sickeningly ironic.
> 
> The poem should be much clearer in that context.



When I first read the poem, the recent shootings going on here in our country was the first thought that popped into my mind! As John Lennon said long ago, "Give PEACE a chance!"

BTW Ned, have you heard about the latest shooting in Dallas, TX? FIVE cops were shot.......... by a black man who hates white people..... that is what is going on in America now........

And I say the 'gun culture' society is how the black community views the white community now in our country. 
Police here in America ARE slaughtering *black* men more often now. Look at the statistics.

I say ALL LIVES MATTER!!! Let's keep on writing, keep on protesting to STOP the slaughtering here in America!! Write in peace.


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## Gyarachu (Jul 9, 2016)

To clarify, I do not think the government in general is out to kill minorities. The poem is a visceral response to an image that flashed through my head upon reading the articles. Think of it this way: a government with good intentions simply trying to maintain order in the madness, and a regime viciously slaughtering its own people, both of these would say the exact same thing: "Please keep your protests peaceful." From the former it is an earnest plea, from the latter it is a sinister attempt to subdue the masses.

I do not think we are living under the latter, but the poem was born from such imagery.


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## escorial (Jul 9, 2016)

the 4th line changed the piece for me...for me the line was to strong for the poem....


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## Gyarachu (Jul 9, 2016)

escorial said:


> the 4th line changed the piece for me...for me the line was to strong for the poem....



Yeah I know. I hated writing it.

But that was the point of the poem. An authoritative figure ordering mass murder with the tone of gently chiding a kindergarten class. It should feel revolting.


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## escorial (Jul 9, 2016)

Gyarachu said:


> Yeah I know. I hated writing it.
> 
> But that was the point of the poem. An authoritative figure ordering mass murder with the tone of gently chiding a kindergarten class. It should feel revolting.



 it comes across as a flippant  line and the shortness of the poem never gave the line enough context to express itself...i get what you are saying about revolting but the line comes across as trivial to me...


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## Gyarachu (Jul 9, 2016)

escorial said:


> it comes across as a flippant  line and the shortness of the poem never gave the line enough context to express itself...i get what you are saying about revolting but the line comes across as trivial to me...



Right. I guess what I'm saying is it's supposed to sound flippant, because to the poem's speaker it is a trivial issue. Which should sicken the reader.

I think a better title might go a long way towards solving things, to make the context clearer.


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## escorial (Jul 9, 2016)

Gyarachu said:


> Right. I guess what I'm saying is it's supposed to sound flippant, because to the poem's speaker it is a trivial issue. Which should sicken the reader.
> 
> I think a better title might go a long way towards solving things, to make the context clearer.



the message is more powerful than the poem and you set out to write a revolting piece...i just don't feel the words give the piece any substance..it's not being pc or disliking the subject matter it's just the delivery.....


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## Gyarachu (Jul 9, 2016)

escorial said:


> the message is more powerful than the poem and you set out to write a revolting piece...i just don't feel the words give the piece any substance..it's not being pc or disliking the subject matter it's just the delivery.....



Yeah, from what I've gathered so far the poem didn't do what I wanted it to. That's okay, it's a learning experience. Thanks for the feedback.


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## escorial (Jul 9, 2016)

the important thing is you created a poem and put it out there...and that's cool


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## ned (Jul 9, 2016)

hello - things haved moved on....and your poem has taken on a darker significance.

have to correct you Nellie, the nutter said he hates white coppers, which is quite different
and a reflection of his state of mind which is not worth further conjecture.

gun culture is not about race - it is about the ease and acceptability of people obtaining lethal weapons.
if I wanted a gun, I wouldn't know where to start - I have no idea if there are gun shops 
or what permits I might need - it's never crossed my mind. 
and if it did, my family and friends would regard me a strange and dangerous.

sure, nutters getting hold of guns happens all over the world - but it happens more often in America.

Obamha, bless him, tried to enforce more controls over gun ownership - but was rejected by congress
which (you would think) reflects the will of the people - you don't want to give up your guns.

so, do not be surprised by these inevitable tragedies...

America is a relatively young country, but for goodness sakes, grow up.
Ned


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## Nellie (Jul 9, 2016)

ned said:


> have to correct you Nellie, the nutter said he hates white coppers, which is quite different
> and a reflection of his state of mind which is not worth further conjecture.



No you don't need to correct me, Ned. The gunman said he hates white cops because of the other shootings going on here in the U.S. White cops shooting innocent black men because of traffic stops.


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## Gyarachu (Jul 9, 2016)

Can you two not have this argument in my poem's thread, please?

Thanks.


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## ned (Jul 9, 2016)

good point Gyrara... but if you write an emotive poem - see what happens...
no argument here - really.


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## Nellie (Jul 9, 2016)

Gyarachu said:


> Can you two not have this argument in my poem's thread, please?
> 
> Thanks.



Absolutely! Besides, I AM agreeing with YOU!


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## Firemajic (Jul 11, 2016)

Gyarachu said:


> If you would please be so kind
> to keep your protests peaceful—
> tut-tut! No squirming now, how _very_ uncivil.
> Into the oven you go—that’s it, single file please.
> ...





I remember in school, being forced to watch a Documentary on the Nazi Death camps, How the soldiers told the mothers to hold their babies close, keep them calm, stay quiet and peaceful, so the children would not be afraid as they entered the gas chambers ... I watched in horror at the mothers sang to their babies, comforting them... their last gift to their innocent children... This poem stirred the same emotion... Horror that this poem needs to be written, needs to be read... you did good...


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## ned (Jul 11, 2016)

whoa! - are the recent tragic events in America really being compared to _that_ tragic event in Europe....

really? - 

I feel like I have entered a parallel universe - I'm sorry, but the sheer arrogance and disrespect astonishes me.


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## Firemajic (Jul 11, 2016)

ned said:


> whoa! - are the recent tragic events in America really being compared to _that_ tragic event in Europe....
> 
> really? -
> 
> I feel like I have entered a parallel universe - I'm sorry, but the sheer arrogance and disrespect astonishes me.





Oh, Ned, sorry if what I said sounded like I was comparing 2 different tragic events... The line in the poem, about the ovens... anyway, the horror is the same... ANY suffering is too much...


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## Firemajic (Jul 11, 2016)

My sincere apologies to anyone I may have offended, that was not my intent....


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## ned (Jul 11, 2016)

that's alright Juls - you were just responding to your interpretation of what is already out there.....but please, the horror, is a long, long way from being the same.
if that is forgotten - then the lessons of history have not been learnt - but scant compensation, for the family and friends of those recently bereaved...

Gyarachu - I had my suspicions, but tell me it isn't true...


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## Firemajic (Jul 11, 2016)




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## Gyarachu (Jul 11, 2016)

If you take issue with what you perceive to be my poem's message, you can PM me. But don't derail my thread with a witch hunt.


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## ned (Jul 11, 2016)

G - I know what the poem's message is - because you explained it to me, remember?

I have said nothing, other then respond to another's reaction according to their perception,
and asked the obvious question that arose from that -
I have already conceded that it is perfectly ok if you do not wish to explain the finer points of your poem - 

but, until you do - do not be surprised by conjecture.


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