# How to Write Really Bad Prose



## David Gordon Burke (Mar 11, 2014)

It seems a bit of a trend this week so I thought I'd start a thread about what you consider 'bad writing.'  I don't distinguish much these days between reading INDIE writers and PRO writers.  I read it all.  Or try.  

The biggest difference I have found, aside from a greater number of typos in INDIE ebooks is -
1.  Good Indie writers often 'Plot' their stories well and have interesting ideas but they tend to start brutally slow or with a lot of back story from the get go.  
2.  Bad PRO writers still manage to carry off an acceptable level of prose while Bad Indie writers can be bad, bad, bad - they either have talent or it's like reading an 60,000 word grocery list.
3.  Bad PRO writers with the backing of publishing houses and a team of writers, editors etc. etc. tend to write good characters that I want to care about in stories that are just regurgitated movie of the week Hollywood dreck.  Why do I want to spend 15 to 30 hours reading a novel that doesn't deliver any better than thrills than I might get in a rerun of an episode of Buffy?  Or 24?  

So what is it that makes a lot of prose bad.  IMHO.  
My first Pet Peeve are sentences or paragraphs that contain the same word or combination of words or concept two or more times.  For God's sake, learn some synonyms.  "Exiting the vehicle, he was surprised at the amount of foot traffic on 17th avenue.  Despite the fact that it was lunchtime, there was almost never this much foot traffic on any sidewalk."  

Is it just me or is reading that second 'Foot traffic' like having red ants crawling under your skin?  Add in the extraneous words and the fact that there has already been after only 30 or so pages TOO MUCH INFO - too many characters, too much stuff I just don't care about etc. etc. (Sci-fi is like that.....either it grabs me with simple differences or it overwhelms with too much info)  I'm ready to delete and move on.  

And my second big INDIE pet peeve - writers that throw the mold out the window.  How about writing the typical Sci Fi short story, with a twist instead of trying to cram all the DUNE and LOTR into your first novel?  Too Much info.  (that goes for a lot of genres, not just Sci - Fi and fantasy)  


Third Peeve - Too many characters.  

Now I myself have been guilty of some of these crimes but even when I go back and read my work over...at least my errors seem to be 'light' - just slightly overdone.  Chapter 1 introduced Five characters.  Two were periferal 'dead before the story started' back story characters and as such their names, relationship to the story and how they died was all the info given.  Then, the other characters got enough of a work up to be slightly memorable.  

I read INDIES that throw out names and then never come back to those people for ten chapters.  I'm suppossed to remember these people? 

Adverbs?  Dialogue attributes?  Twilight clones.   

David Gordon Burke


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## Sam (Mar 11, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> It seems a bit of a trend this week so I thought I'd start a thread about what you consider 'bad writing.'  I don't distinguish much these days between reading INDIE writers and PRO writers.  I read it all.  Or try.
> 
> The biggest difference I have found, aside from a greater number of typos in INDIE ebooks is -
> 1.  Good Indie writers often 'Plot' their stories well and have interesting ideas but they tend to start brutally slow or with a lot of back story from the get go.
> ...



It's 'supposed' and 'peripheral'. 

When you're penning an article about bad prose, it helps not to have spelling mistakes.


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## Gavrushka (Mar 11, 2014)

I think the least subjective measure of good and bad in the literary world is book sales. - However we try to squirm and denigrate successful authors, our opinions count for nought against the millions who enjoy their works.

If 'bad writing' entertained people, then there'd be millions of best sellers. -I'd be top of every damned literary chart going!

And I'll not judge them, unless they decided to return the compliment... I know which of us would end up the most bloodied!


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## Gamer_2k4 (Mar 11, 2014)

1) Stories that are dark for darkness's sake.  It's probably not necessary to explain a torture or a rape scene; the fact that the torture or rape occurred is sufficient.
2) "False" danger, or "bad" situations that don't actually alter the book or character in any way.  Obviously we know that the protagonist will probably make it to the end of the story, but because we know that, perilous situations lose a lot of their bite if characters are never affected (temporarily or permanently) by them.
3) Stupid villains.  None of this "But before I kill you, there's one thing I'd like you to know" garbage.  Just shoot him.
4) Fragments.  Fragments, fragments, fragments.  (Yes, the irony is not lost on me.)  I know this is personal preference, but when I see a lot of fragments in prose, it reeks of amateurism to me.
5) Casual-sounding prose.  Another subjective one, I know, but I just don't like a conversational voice in books I'm reading.  If this story is good enough to be published, it should sound professional, not like some college kid writing about his summer vacation.



Gavrushka said:


> I think the least subjective measure of good and bad in the literary world is book sales. - However we try to squirm and denigrate successful authors, our opinions count for nought against the millions who enjoy their works.



It's actually the most subjective measure of quality.  After all, sales are based not on objective literary merit, but on subjective opinion.  Perhaps the number of awards a book has won is a better objective measure, but it's still not perfect.


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## Gavrushka (Mar 11, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> It's actually the most subjective measure of quality.  After all, sales are based not on objective literary merit, but on subjective opinion.  Perhaps the number of awards a book has won is a better objective measure, but it's still not perfect.



I'd argue that the sum of the public's subjective opinions adds to the most objective few achievable as to the authors worth. After all, books are designed to be read. - Yes, I appreciate that many books sell less well, but win awards, and that is based on a small number of critiques... IF a critique says a book is good, and it does not sell well, whereas the masses buy another book, I'd value popular opinion more highly, and suggest that the critic was an antiquated fossil whose views did not reflect anything other than his own pomposity! (Or something like that *snickers*)


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## Tettsuo (Mar 11, 2014)

*Taking this as a "things I hate in a book" thread*

1 - Every character acts and speak EXACTLY the same.
2 - Characters that act like complete idiots and are unable to recognize the most obvious of signs.
3 - Attempting to shock for the sole purpose of making the story interesting.  Gore never makes a story interesting no matter how well you detail it out.
4 - Endless flowery prose that takes up pages, when it could have been covered in a paragraph.
5 - Action scenes that are totally illogical.  Example: A zombie story where people with simple baseball bats can make a zombie's heads explode.
6 - Massive amounts of completely unnecessary information.

The sad part... many "Pro" writers do all of the above as well.


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## David Gordon Burke (Mar 11, 2014)

Sam said:


> It's 'supposed' and 'peripheral'.
> When you're penning an article about bad prose, it helps not to have spelling mistakes.



HAHA.  I'll take that as I would hope it was meant, as a joke.  
DGB


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## David Gordon Burke (Mar 11, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> 1)   4) Fragments. Fragments, fragments, fragments. (Yes, the irony is not lost on me.) I know this is personal preference, but when I see a lot of fragments in prose, it reeks of amateurism to me.
> 5) Casual-sounding prose. Another subjective one, I know, but I just don't like a conversational voice in books I'm reading. If this story is good enough to be published, it should sound professional, not like some college kid writing about his summer vacation.



I don't really have a problem with fragmented sentences as long as they aren't the norm.  Stephen King throws fragments around a lot - maybe he made it the accepted norm.
The casual tone of a book would largely depend on the POV - First person, third person...who is that person?  

David Gordon Burke


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## Bishop (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm willing to forgive some bad prose for a good story, but what irks me more than anything is a loss of basic grammar. One thing is improper use of certain punctuation marks, be it over use, under use, or just wrong use. I am a sinner in this regard, though, as I overuse commas on my first drafts like you wouldn't believe. The biggest thing for me, though is characters. I really don't like wooden, stocky characters. I don't mean archetypes--they're useful, and sometimes even necessary--but I can't stand characters whose actions are thin and I can predict what they're going to do before they do it because they're so stocky. 

I suppose what can really make the difference in something like that for me is knowing the details. So you have a warrior, great, I know what warriors tend to be like. But when you tell me about his five older brothers who picked on him for years, and he still has issues with enemies who are taller than him, striking a childlike fear into him at the very sight of them? That's more like it. It can be back story, quirks, likes and dislikes, personality flaws (I love deeply flawed characters, characters who make big mistakes), or even just details about their life. Maybe like biker in your story always tries to hide his "My Little Pony" tattoo from his fellow bikers? OH! And there's one other biker in the gang who knows about it, but doesn't tell anyone out of a deep brotherly affection? 

See. That's a realistic and flawed character, with a bit of humor to boot. Love that stuff.


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## Kyle R (Mar 11, 2014)

A pet peeve of mine is when I, in fiction, read a first-person narrator who is really just the author writing about him/herself in a fictional situation, under the pretense that it's not _really_ them.

For example, I once read a short story by a female MFA graduate writer whose main character was, surprise surprise, a female MFA graduate writer.

I understand it's easier to put yourself in as a character, or to write about "what you know", but I find myself much more interested in authors who are able to create characters completely different from themselves.

(To be fair, it's possible that short story was written as a "make yourself one of the characters in your next story" exercises, which certainly would make a lot of sense. )


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## Bishop (Mar 11, 2014)

KyleColorado said:


> A pet peeve of mine is when I, in fiction, read a first-person narrator who is really just the author writing about him/herself in a fictional situation, under the pretense that it's not _really_ them.
> 
> For example, I once read a short story by a female MFA graduate writer whose main character was, surprise surprise, a female MFA graduate writer.
> 
> ...



I simply dislike first person narration. I'm biased this way. I grew up on cheap sci-fi novels and the classics (kind of a contrast, right?) so I've always been very "eeeehh..." about first person. My wife reads a lot of young adult books and occasionally I look over her shoulder to see a massive wave of "I's" "Me's" and "My's" and I get a little sick. I just dislike it because of the same reason you said here--it sounds like I'm reading a bad diary. Also, I never trust the narrator, and almost always get a sense of whining whenever anything bad happens to them, or they portray negative emotions.

Then again, as I said, I'm biased. I know some writers do it very well, and there are some books I've read in first person that are fantastic. I really enjoyed a short story by Pancreas, here on this site, that was first person. But I consider these rare in my reading career. This is why the "Look inside!" feature on Amazon is the most helpful thing ever. I can see if it's first person, and usually if it is I can determine whether or not I'd be able to bear it or if it was worth it.

I try not to judge a book by its narration style... but it can be tough.


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## Kevin (Mar 11, 2014)

Seems like there's always a writer-character in stories. Some writers use the same variations of characters over and over again, not just putting themselves but people they knew.  Compare _Stand by me_ to _It_  or_ Sometimes They Come Back. _


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## Apple Ice (Mar 11, 2014)

I don't like the really moral goody two shoes type character. Never in my life have I met someone who didn't possess a number of bad qualities. It's just realism and common sense to have flaws. Also what Gamer said about predictable outcomes to dramas. Happens in films the most of all.

Also, could someone quickly explain to me what a fragment in writing is? I've googled it and am having a hard time understanding it properly. I'm pretty sure I do it a lot from what I've understood.


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## SinJinQLB (Mar 11, 2014)

Kevin said:


> Seems like there's always a writer-character in stories. Some writers use the same variations of characters over and over again, not just putting themselves but people they knew.  Compare _Stand by me_ to _It_  or_ Sometimes They Come Back. _



I've always been a fan of books where a writer character writes a short story, and you get to read it. A story within a story!

Also, on a slightly different topic, isn't it funny how it's painful to read a bad novel, but it loads of fun to watch a bad movie?


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## Lyra Laurant (Mar 11, 2014)

I can't stand writers who use their lead characters as an avatar so they can live their fantasies of being more handsome, more interesting, saving the day, getting the desired and unreachable woman... Come on! I don't want to know how great you think you are. I want a story with "honest" characters, characters who are just themselves, not anyone else.

Still on characters, I think the most unprofessional thing is an inconsistent character. For God's sake, how can a writer forget his own character is vegetarian -- considering he even wrote long and repetitive dialogues and narration about the reasons the character doesn't want to hurt/eat animals? Why would that character appear eating meat twice at the last book, and a scene in which he laughs at a mollusc being burned alive? _I_ eat meat, but I would never laugh at a living being burning to death.

LOL sorry, I think I was talking/complaining about the same book series in all this post. A best-selling, btw.


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## Kevin (Mar 11, 2014)

> loads of fun to watch a bad movie?


 MST3000. Back on topic... I can't say that I even know what constitutes bad prose, other than obvious SPaG. If I don't like something I just put down.  Fragment? I don't know, but my MS word spellcheck underlines them in green all the time. Something about missing parts to a complete sentence. I sometimes ignore. (<---there's two frags in a row for you there, and I didn't even try  )


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## T.S.Bowman (Mar 11, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> If 'bad writing' entertained people, then there'd be millions of best sellers. -I'd be top of every damned literary chart going!



Umm...hello Twilight!


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## Gamer_2k4 (Mar 12, 2014)

Apple Ice said:


> Also, could someone quickly explain to me what a fragment in writing is? I've googled it and am having a hard time understanding it properly. I'm pretty sure I do it a lot from what I've understood.



A fragment is a sentence without a subject and a verb.  For example, Neo's memorable quote in The Matrix, "Guns.  Lots of Guns." is two fragments.  If dialogue contains that in a book, I'm much more likely to forgive its usage (after all, that's how people talk), but a narrator doing that is inexcusable.


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## Bishop (Mar 12, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> A fragment is a sentence without a subject and a verb. For example, Neo's memorable quote in The Matrix, "Guns. Lots of Guns." is two fragments. If dialogue contains that in a book, I'm much more likely to forgive its usage (after all, that's how people talk), but a narrator doing that is inexcusable.



I disagree with the last part of your statement. A narrator doing it often is a problem, but once in a while, they can be great for adding effect. I sometimes use fragments outside of dialogue like this:

"His eyes watered the longer he stared at it, standing there in defiance of reality. The mummy. It stared back at him through rotted bandages before it began shuffling toward him."

A cheesy example, but I've used a fragment once or twice in my first book to great effect.

To add to that, I believe you need to understand rules to break them.


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## Deleted member 49710 (Mar 12, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> A fragment is a sentence without a subject and a verb.  For example, Neo's memorable quote in The Matrix, "Guns.  Lots of Guns." is two fragments.  If dialogue contains that in a book, I'm much more likely to forgive its usage (after all, that's how people talk), but a narrator doing that is inexcusable.


But often narrators are people, too.

I think bad prose is the result of a) not caring very much about words, and b) not having read enough. This manifests in many ways, but mostly it amounts to someone who hasn't really mastered the language, can't manipulate the language to achieve the desired effect, can't find the right words.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Mar 12, 2014)

lasm said:


> I think bad prose is the result of a) not caring very much about words, and b) not having read enough.



Or reading too much of the wrong things.  My fiancee read through my story and told me I was a really great writer...then I saw the level of prose in the books she reads.  Suddenly that compliment got a lot less complimentary.

EDIT, for *Apple Ice*: That first sentence in my response was a fragment.  It had no subject.


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## Schrody (Mar 12, 2014)

Gamer_2k4 said:


> A fragment is a sentence without a subject and a verb.  For example, Neo's memorable quote in The Matrix, "Guns.  Lots of Guns." is two fragments.  If dialogue contains that in a book, I'm much more likely to forgive its usage (after all, that's how people talk), but a narrator doing that is inexcusable.



Oh boy, I do that a lot, but only to describe an environment or situation. It's very effective.


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## Apple Ice (Mar 12, 2014)

Gamer_2k4, thanks for taking the time to explain that for me. Why don't you like it in narration, then? Is there a particular reason? I'm certainly going to be conscious about it when I'm writing from now on.

EDIT: thank you Kevin as well. You finally made me realise why Word is always telling me I have atrocious grammar.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Mar 12, 2014)

I don't like it in narration because I consider it terrible presentation.  It would be like if you were watching a movie with great characters, great dialogue, and a great plot, but it was all filmed with a shaky hand camera.  I don't care if characters are characters, but I expect a certain level of professionalism in the prose that's not dialogue.  I want to be impressed by the author's writing ability, and frankly, most authors can't elicit that reaction from me.


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## Apple Ice (Mar 12, 2014)

Okay, I understand what you're saying which is fair enough. I personally wouldn't even recognise it if I saw it, let alone feel strongly about it. It's acceptable in dialogue but keep the actual prose and syntax professional. I think wherever possible I will avoid it in prose just to make sure I'm not isolating people like yourself who don't like it because I doubt readers will actively seek fragments in prose and so won't be disappointed if there's less.


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## David Gordon Burke (Mar 12, 2014)

One of the only understandable (not so much but I feel generous today) error I tend to see in a lot of INDIE stuff is that it looks like the writer is just way to attached to their work.  They see the story so clearly in their own minds that they just don't realize that they aren't transmitting it in words.  
I get twenty or thirty pages into a book and I'm totallly lost.  Meanwhile,  all kinds of stuff is happening but I just cannot connect the plot points or figure out who these characters are.  
The only thing I can figure is that these INDIES just cannot be objective about their own work and they don't have editors or beta readers with enough chutzpah to tell them they don't get it.  

Understandable, yes.  Excusable...No way.  

David Gordon Burke


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## stormageddon (Mar 12, 2014)

The easiest way to destroy a story- romance. Very much my personal opinion but I can't stand it, unless it's very understated, or very real, rather than the cliched, idealised travesty that is the norm. It isn't so bad in pre-twilight books, but I have lost count of the number of times I have had to stop reading an otherwise decent book because the author has such an inhuman idea of what romance is.

Most of my other pet hates have been mentioned, except for the use of contractions in third person narrative. I prefer more formal narratives, and so many authors try for formal writing and despoil it with contractions v.v


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## Jeko (Mar 13, 2014)

> My first Pet Peeve are sentences or paragraphs that contain the same word or combination of words or concept two or more times. For God's sake, learn some synonyms. "Exiting the vehicle, he was surprised at the amount of foot traffic on 17th avenue. Despite the fact that it was lunchtime, there was almost never this much foot traffic on any sidewalk."
> 
> Is it just me or is reading that second 'Foot traffic' like having red ants crawling under your skin?



This is just repetition, and it's used well by hundreds of writers. It's one of literature's most powerful techniques, IMO. Badly used in the example, but brilliant used by great novelists and poets alike. 

My main pet peeve is when a writer uses multiple POVs simply for the sake of using multiple POVs. That and the use of other 'trends' without incorporation into the wider purpose. You can tell when writers do this, and it depresses me.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Mar 13, 2014)

Cadence said:


> This is just repetition, and it's used well by hundreds of writers. It's one of literature's most powerful techniques, IMO. Badly used in the example, but brilliant used by great novelists and poets alike.



Humorously enough (and I just learned this today, though I knew of the term before), the word "anaphora" refers to both.  In rhetoric, anaphora is the intentional repetition of words, phrases, or structure.

_I came, I saw, I conquered._

However, in grammar, anaphora apparently refers to picking different words or phrasing so as to avoid that repetition.

_I took the bus, but he biked there._  (as opposed to "but he took his bike")


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## Jeko (Mar 13, 2014)

> However, in grammar, anaphora apparently refers to picking different words or phrasing so as to avoid that repetition.
> 
> _I took the bus, but he biked there. (as opposed to "but he took his bike")_



In that sense, anaphora is used to make reference towards the previous word; it's a form of indirect repetition, to reiterate a concept without drawing attention to its presentation in the prose. #

Though I would use 'he took his bike' in that example; the repetition helps bind the two instances together, making them sit more comfortably in my mind. Personal preference, probably.


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## Robdemanc (Mar 13, 2014)

I dislike writing that doesn't flow well. This is common in some published novels.

Other things: Cliche characters. One massive cliche I read recently was a John Hunter novel written by Lee Childs. John Hunter is a one man A team who goes around America saving the good guys and killing the bad guys, and that is his totality. 

I also dislike authors who show AND tell the same things. An example may be: "She bit her fingernails as she waited at the door, still having no idea what he was going to say to her when he saw her face after all these years. *She was nervous about meeting him again.*


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## T.S.Bowman (Mar 13, 2014)

Oh for cryin out loud. If you all really want to see how to write BAD prose...just take a look at anything I post here.


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## Schrody (Mar 14, 2014)

T.S.Bowman said:


> Oh for cryin out loud. If you all really want to see how to write BAD prose...just take a look at anything I post here.



You can't be worse than me!  It's a competition, right?


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## T.S.Bowman (Mar 14, 2014)

Schrody said:


> You can't be worse than me!  It's a competition, right?



Oh crap!! I forgot about the competition part.


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