# Very Disappointed in Narnia and C.S. Lewis.



## jk7070436 (Dec 6, 2005)

Okay, I've just read a bit more than half of the series, only skipped the boring books of the series. And I have got to say, I'm a bit disappointed in the whole thing. Ever since I was nine, I've wanted to read this series after many failed attempts, for the simpleness of the writing didn't catch my eye. So I've finally gotten around to getting a copy of it.

My first main complaint is that it seems to me as if C.S. Lewis discards his characters as if they were scraps of papers with names scribbled onto them. I mean, I want to read about Digory and Polly, Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy, not some kid named Scrubb. No offence to Narnia fans, but I'm the type of reader who likes to stick with the characters and develop my understanding of their personality. I don't like being torn away from the main characters, get introduced to new ones, get torn away again, and then have a reunion with some characters that I've lost my bond with.

Secondly, it was sort of annoying how C.S. Lewis seemed to basically get stuff from the bible and hide it behind words. I feel as if I was betrayed. I mean, at first, I was like, "Aslan, okay, he's cool," then I learn that he represents Jesus. It doesn't feel real. I lost my trust in Lewis, now knowing that he's been--sorry if my opinions seem unreasonable right now--basically... I don't know a word to describe it. It's along the lines of preaching, feeding morals, and slyly stuffing "CHRISTIANITY!!!" down your throat. 

Third, I really didn't like the ending, how Peter, Edmund, Lucy, and the rest of the gang all went to some sort of Narnia heaven, and Susan didn't because she was interested in nylons, lipsticks, invitations, and thought that Narnia wasn't real. I mean, how could anyone possibly forget about a gigantic war between good and evil, talking animals, and the like twice? How? I just don't get it? Plus, what's wrong with nylon, lipstick, and invitations? Is C.S. Lewis trying to say that it's a sin to care about those things?

*Huff, puff, gasps for air* That's what I have to say. And I'm sure that there are a bunch of people who will now come to me, barraging me with disagreements, but know this, my statements were mere opinions. My word is not the law, and I myself know that. Please be mature so we can have a serious discussion. I don't want to start some huge fight.

So, did anyone feel the same way after reading Narnia? Was anyone else disappointed or had their impression of C.S. Lewis drastically changed? Please share your opinions. Thanks, I've got to go to sleep. G'night.


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## casperthesheet (Dec 6, 2005)

I would take this post seriously but the fact that you have skipped the "boring" books in the series says it all. Once the story became stale it was doomed to disappoint you.


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## Kimahri (Dec 6, 2005)

Nope I love the Narnia books and the fact that Lewis used the Bible as an influence makes it all the better in my opinion.

kimahri


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## VinrAlfakyn (Dec 6, 2005)

Susan didn't make it to heaven by the 7th book b/c she didn't die in the train accident like the others. But it never told what happened to her afterwards, so she could make it later on. I didn't like that she turned from believing in Narnia, but I suppose the ending leaves her able to come back if she wants......Pretty much all of C.S. Lewis' work is based on Christianity and the Bible. The Space Trilogy and Till We Have Faces were, and all the others like The Four Loves, for example. He's what I'd call a fantasy Christian writer. Another such author is Randy Alcorn, with his book Edge of Eternity, and Ted Dekker, with books like THR3E. I don't think he meant to imply that nylon and lipstick and such were a sin, just that Susan put them before a lot of other things and they became more important to her. For Christians, that would be a sin because you're putting something else before God. Also, I absolutely can't stand Scrubb everytime I read The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, even though I've read the series more than once and I like him in the other books. I guess that was just random information................I loved that you get new characters exploring Narnia in each of the books, and then in the final book they all come together. Anyway, I suppose I'm rambling now. That's my view, though.


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## Trinket (Dec 6, 2005)

Okay, rant/explanation/opinion ahead:

Now, to a point, I can understand what you're saying about not liking having Christianity shoved down your throat. Except that the entire book series is an allegory to the Bible, meant for Christian readers. If you are not, sorry. But they are.

Second, Lewis was not saying that there was anything wrong with lipstick, invitations, etc., and that was why Susan did not make it to the "Narnia heaven" as you call it. What he was saying was that she had decided that she was "too good for all the Narnia nonsense" and had become so sucked into a secular world that she had forgotten the truth. Again, an allegory that may not make sense unless you are a Christian or at least are familiar with the Bible's teachings. If you read the Dawn Treader, you will see that Lucy and Edmund are told that they will not return to Narnia (except the almost-Narnia they return to in the Last Battle) because they have gotten too old. Narnia is a children's world by definition.

Which leads me to my last point. You said Lewis discards his characters quickly, that you like to stick with a character and watch them develop, etc. Well, keep in mind that these books really were meant for children when they were written, generally ones in elementary school/middle school. Younger children don't stick with characters very well. They like to find something out, laugh about it for a little bit, and move on. Lewis kept his books captivating for younger audiences by moving from character to character quickly enough to keep their attention.

Okay, rant over. "To each his own," as the saying goes, and you apparently have a differing opinion than some of us *cough*me*cough* who grew up reading Narnia from the age of five. That's okay, it's your right. That's all, I'm done. Thank you. *takes a bow and dodges tomatoes*


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## jk7070436 (Dec 6, 2005)

Whew, I expected a bunch of people to start yelling at me(with caps), glad that no one's killed me yet. Anyways, looks like no one agrees with me , but VinrAlfakyn, we agree on one thing... We both hate Scrubb. Well, you hate him in one book, but personally, I sort of liked him better in the Dawn Treader. I know it wouldn't be so good if he stood as a stuck up idiot for the rest of the series, but it was funny. I loved his journal entries. 

I have a question. I read somewhere that Tolkien didn't like Narnia and told his opinions of it to C.S. Lewis... Why didn't he like it? DOes anyone happen to know? By the way, I'm not saying I like Narnia, just a question.


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## Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor (Dec 6, 2005)

It's fantasy. Can you think of a better book to draw inspiration from?


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## VinrAlfakyn (Dec 6, 2005)

Tolkien didn't like it as much because it was Christian based. He thought that it was ok to base it on that a little bit, but not almost entirely. For a fantasy book, anyway.

Also, I thought Scrubb's journals were pretty funny too. It's neat to compare his views of everybody with how we view them. He's a real stinker in that book, though.


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## sLiCk (Dec 6, 2005)

I'd still like to watch Narnia(not like I have anything better to do).


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## VinrAlfakyn (Dec 6, 2005)

I hope they didn't leave too much out of the book (they always do)


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## jk7070436 (Dec 6, 2005)

Oh, yeah, the movie! I don't like the books much, but I'm gonna see the movie . It looks like it'll be alright, but from what I've seen in trailers, I think they added a bunch of stuff into it, rather than take stuff out, like they did with LOTR and HP.


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## VinrAlfakyn (Dec 6, 2005)

They did leave a bunch out of LOTR, though, as well as add stuff in and change things up a bit.


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## Trinket (Dec 7, 2005)

I'm definitely going to see the movie! 

About Tolkien, I'm not sure why (or if) he didn't like Narnia, but I do know that he was a Christian. So he may not have agreed with how MUCH Bible Lewis put in his books, but he certainly was not opposed to the Christianity itself. In fact, Lord of the Rings has many allegorical references to the Bible, if not as obvious as Lewis'.


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## Rhea (Dec 12, 2005)

I abosulute _adore_ Narnia...I read it eons ago and I just reread it again, before the movie came out. I understand what you mean about having Christianity shoved down your throat, and I agree with everything that *Trinket* said.

At first I didn't really like that we were introduced to all the new characters (I still wanted to read more about the four Pevensies) but then you really get to like them about as much as Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy. I still liked Scrubb in the Voyage of the Dawn Treader, though, I thought he was funny even though the rest found him annoying (and yes, especially the journal entries were hilarious!)

I love the way that C.S. Lewis writes the series, though, even though it's simple and all that.

I've just watched the movie, and if you were worried they'd cut a lot of things out, rest assured  they didn't! I think they were really faithful to the books! (Unlike Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings). I may have missed tiny tiny details but there was never a moment where I went, "Hey, where's this part?" or "How could they _do_ that?"

You know the part when they enter the wardrobe and it's mentioned whether or not the close the door? Just like the book, they made sure that Lucy didn't close the door, Edmund did and Peter didn't. I don't know, it just made me feel good to know that they got that small detail right. And I absolutely _adore_ Mr. Tumnus...

The only bad thing I really have to say is that there were a lot more centaurs than I thought there should be and not enough animals. And Aslan wasn't shining and golden enough  I also didn't think the armies would be soo big, but that's probably just me.


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## Dephere (Dec 26, 2005)

To tell the truth I hate religion...not the people who are religious, or their beliefs, but it would be my "hell" to be religious. (I don't mean to offend anyone, oh and for all those people who just started praying for me you can stop.) But this aversion does not impede my ability to appreciate biblical stories. 

No, I didn't love the books, but they were a good read. I enjoyed those books much more than half the books I have read. I can, however, clearly see why the characters feel like "names written on scraps of paper" as jk put it. 

I would not recommend the books to anyone, but they allowed me to kill some time.


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## Verago (Dec 28, 2005)

Yeah. 
I actually slightly hate Narnia. 
There's already a really good book about Christianity out. You might've heard about it.
It's called The Bible.

I have nothing against Christianity or Christians, seeing as how I am one.
But, seriously...Get some new inspiration. You'd think a "great writer" like C.S. Lewis wouldn't have to stoop so low as to steal ideas, even whole plotlines, from another book, or books. 

I guess there's no problem with copyright, 'cause I don't think anyone has a copyright on The Bible.

But...
Jeez.

--Ethan


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## Dephere (Dec 28, 2005)

I agree with you to a degree, Verago, but I do think CS Lewis did have to contain some creativity in him to create this. I mean, yes, he may have taken some, but not all, of his ideas from the bible. 

Even parraleling an already told story takes a rather large amount of ingenuity, at least if you want to do it in a new...more interesting way


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## Verago (Dec 28, 2005)

I agree with your agreeing with me to a degree to a degree, Dephere.
Hahaha.

Though, in my opinion, creating a plot is one of the hardest parts of writing. 
C.S. Lewis didn't have to do this; he pulled it from parts of the Bible.

All he had to do was create metaphors. While it takes imagination, it's hardly as difficult as plotting.

In my opinion.

Ethan.


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## Rhea (Jan 1, 2006)

But was every single thing taken from the Bible? Surely he did have to make some things up himself...?

But a lot of books out there have the same basic plotline, though.


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## strange_glue (Jan 3, 2006)

> My first main complaint is that it seems to me as if C.S. Lewis discards his characters as if they were scraps of papers with names scribbled onto them. I mean, I want to read about Digory and Polly, Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy, not some kid named Scrubb. No offence to Narnia fans, but I'm the type of reader who likes to stick with the characters and develop my understanding of their personality. I don't like being torn away from the main characters, get introduced to new ones, get torn away again, and then have a reunion with some characters that I've lost my bond with.


 
I totally see your point here, although this did enhance the fact that the books are about 'NARNIA' not about edmund, peter, susan, and lucy. I think keeping those for in all the time would certainly have made the books different. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but certainly I think they would have had a different 'Feel' to them.
Can you imagine Potter having potter taken out and being about all different people and set at hogwarts in the wizarding world? I haven't got used to scrubb and Pole yet, but I am only early on in the book with them in it.



> Secondly, it was sort of annoying how C.S. Lewis seemed to basically get stuff from the bible and hide it behind words. I feel as if I was betrayed. I mean, at first, I was like, "Aslan, okay, he's cool," then I learn that he represents Jesus. It doesn't feel real. I lost my trust in Lewis, now knowing that he's been--sorry if my opinions seem unreasonable right now--basically... I don't know a word to describe it. It's along the lines of preaching, feeding morals, and slyly stuffing "CHRISTIANITY!!!" down your throat.


 
This book was written at a time when England was a christian country, for, at the time, a primarilary christian audience. Now, you wouldn't complain about someone in Iraq writing a story that 'takes bit's' from the Koran would you? 

It's certainly not an attempt to shove anything, down anyones throat.

As someone who strongly dislikes organised religion, I must say I have no problem with Narnia, or the fact that it is blatantly based on religion. So what if Aslan is based on Jesus? Does it stop him being the coolest character ever. Fuck no it doesn't.
The problem with your attitude about christianity and Narnia, is that you are exactly the same as the people you have a problem with. A complete lack of ability to distuinguish fantasy from reality (IMHO) so,
Aslans based on Jesus? You don't believe in Jesus.... So what? Do you believe in Aslan? As fiction goes, do you think jesus is a bad person? Has this tarnished Aslans character for you?


> Third, I really didn't like the ending, how Peter, Edmund, Lucy, and the rest of the gang all went to some sort of Narnia heaven, and Susan didn't because she was interested in nylons, lipsticks, invitations, and thought that Narnia wasn't real. I mean, how could anyone possibly forget about a gigantic war between good and evil, talking animals, and the like twice? How? I just don't get it? Plus, what's wrong with nylon, lipstick, and invitations? Is C.S. Lewis trying to say that it's a sin to care about those things?


 
 How could anyone forget? The point is supposed to be, from a christian point of view, that WE DO forget. A gigantic war between good and evil, a perfect garden where you can live in happiness for all eternity, How could we forget. But, from a christian point of view, we forget, every day.

He's saying it's wrong to pay more attention to materialistic things in this world, and to forget about God, and Jesus. Caring more about greed, than God.



> So, did anyone feel the same way after reading Narnia? Was anyone else disappointed or had their impression of C.S. Lewis drastically changed? Please share your opinions. Thanks, I've got to go to sleep. G'night.


 
I'll tell you, I have tried to read the lion the witch and the wardrobe a few times, got a few pages in, and put it down again. I didn't find it interesting atall. The I realised there were seven books (Yep, I thought it was only the one). The second I started on the magicians nephew I was hooked. 
There are parts that bore me, and I tend to start reading a bit faster (That happens to me with all books) but generally, I love the world, I love the ideas.

I've also discovered one my favourite characters ever from a book : Puddleglum.


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## strange_glue (Jan 3, 2006)

Trinket said:
			
		

> I'm definitely going to see the movie!
> 
> About Tolkien, I'm not sure why (or if) he didn't like Narnia, but I do know that he was a Christian. So he may not have agreed with how MUCH Bible Lewis put in his books, but he certainly was not opposed to the Christianity itself. In fact, Lord of the Rings has many allegorical references to the Bible, if not as obvious as Lewis'.


 
Tolkein didn't like the combination of different types of mythological creatures, mixing christian mythology such as Father Christmas, with things like witches and fawns.
(This wasn't a religious thing, simply a preference as to keep things together in their correct group. Not overlapping)


 Also, for those critisising C.S Lewis for writing a christian fantasy, and for ripping off the bible, could anyone tell me the name of another book that has so many blatant christian references and is based on christianity, and written for christian readers, aside from the bible? Because I actually don't think it's that much of an overdone idea.
 Not half as overdone as alot of of things.


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## kalibantre (Jan 3, 2006)

I just want to say something, I haven't read the Naria books since I was tiny, can barely remember them, but think of when they were written. Of course they're going to have morals and christainity in them, it's just how it was. Goes with the time and the style. People have been writing about these same things for hundreds of years.


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## discipleofWORD (Jan 4, 2006)

Ah.

I read The Magician's Nephew and The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. I think it was well-told.

I tried reading The Horse and His Boy after TLTWTW and I just gave out. It was told differently... I had the hope C.S. Lewis would go on telling about Narnia, but he decided to pause and tell what happened in the "meanwhile."

I saw the movie and it was pretty good. I learned a lesson: don't read a book before the movie. In the first half of the movie, I was mentally pointing out here and there thinking, "yea, that happened. Then this...and then..." Took me a while to get adjusted. The book and the movie were quite similiar because C.S. Lewis's stepson helped out with the movie.


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## Yumsa (Jan 12, 2006)

for me, I... like the books a lot. i read the second book in grade 5 as a novel study, and then after a few years, i just bought the whole set and read it. True, the characters are ALWAYS changing, making me confused, but what u said about the plot, i think it actually links (except for the six, i started it and didnt like it, and i just finished reading it half a year ago) anyways, i dont really agree with you, cause I find these books quite intresting (i hate Susan in the movie, looks ugly and doesnt look like Susan, there was this other movie a LOOONNNGG time ago, and that susan was better looking than this one, but this Lucy is much better looking than the old one. OH WHO CARES ABOUT THE MOVIE) so i dont really agree with your point, though i understand when u say its like throwing down the characters ( I actually like scrubb, hes funny even if he doesnt noe it)


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## Ghostwriter (Jan 12, 2006)

> Also, for those critisising C.S Lewis for writing a christian fantasy, and for ripping off the bible, could anyone tell me the name of another book that has so many blatant christian references and is based on christianity, and written for christian readers, aside from the bible?


 
The Pilgrim's progress. Allegorical novel in fantasy world


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## Dresdor (Jan 13, 2006)

I love the narnia series and I always will.  I read them when I was young, and didn't get the message behind them.  Rereading them now as an adult the comparison between Aslan and Jesus is very apparent, and it gets you thinking if you read and reflect on it.


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## Londongrey (Jan 13, 2006)

I agree with Dresdor, as a child I didn't understand the Christian undertones to the stories.  As an adult who has re-read them although I now I understand those undertones.

Going back to the original post, the books aren ot about, get to know the characters, they are about the stories and there messages, many of which I find difficult to believe most people would disagree with.


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## Mike C (Jan 13, 2006)

discipleofWORD said:
			
		

> The book and the movie were quite similiar because C.S. Lewis's stepson helped out with the movie.



I believe the guy who wrote the screenplay had read the book too. That can help.


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## raedyn_l (Jan 18, 2006)

Well, I'm atheist and I completely missed the religious undertones by about a mile and a half.  I just thought it was a perfectly good fantasy series written for a slightly more sophisticated younger child (because it had a rather grown up tone to it, I guess).  I skipped one book in the series (the Magician's Nephew) but otherwise I LOVED Narnia.

When I read about the allegory to Christianity thing, I didn't much care that it was chock full of Biblical references because I didn't take religion too seriously--and I still don't.  But that's just me and my isolated mind talking .


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## mdemanatee (Jan 21, 2006)

I love Narnia! You have to keep in mind that the books were written for younger children.


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## ReikiMeg (Jan 27, 2006)

*Religion bad at STORYTELLING?*

There are many people who, had they tried to do what C.S. Lewis did with the parallelism of the Bible stories, would have failed. I too didn't see the connection to Christianity when I was a child. I'm not a Christian now and I still enjoy the books. But I believe two things: 1) You'll always find similar characteristics or traits between different characters, human or not(characters are personified in order for us to relate to them), according to their roles (villain, hero, sidekick). They are based on humans and there are a set of unwritten rules that we all behave by. It's human nature. Afterall, the Bible is a collection of STORIES about PEOPLE. What's my point? Religion related or not, a character can still be enjoyable and just because you may see parallel characteristics doesn't mean the writer intended them i.e. C.S. Lewis didn't steal his entire story line from the Bible. 2)The Bible is not at a child's reading level. If anything, C.S. Lewis did a good job at bringing that story down to their level and showing it in a light that a child could understand. Children can relate to Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy when they can't always relate to the characters of the Bible (who also appear to be from another world). But, really, the book was not all about Christianity. It was also about being a kid too. 

Other than the big and obvious - Good vs Evil, Aslan = Jesus vs. White Witch = Devil, and the big sacrifice for his people - where are the other parallels? I'm wondering what you're all seeing in this story.


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## pride.in.introspection (Feb 10, 2006)

I was first introduced to the Chronicles of Narnia in grade 2 when my teacher read it to us. I liked it so I finished the series in grade 3 to 4. My only memory of it was that it was pretty good. But after watching the movie I became uncomfortably aware of the portrayal of Christianity through Aslan. I do not care to reread the books but yes I do agree with what you are saying.


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## New Moon (May 23, 2006)

I loved the books when I read them.  the reason why Tolkien didn't like narnia was because he didn't like allegories and was more of a serious fantasy writer than C.S. Lewis was. They actually disagreed on a lot of things it seems, which is a little funny because they were best friends.


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## BryanBeasley (May 23, 2006)

When you give a ciritique, I think that you should keep in mind the intention of the author.


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## kevin-v4 (May 25, 2006)

jk7070436 said:
			
		

> what's wrong with nylon, lipstick, and invitations?


 I think C.S. Lewis was trying to make a point about materialism and how bad it was.


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## zoecat (May 27, 2006)

I first read the books when I was about 7 and I really enjoyed them. The world is quite original, and the characters have flaws develop, and are quite different from eachother. It really drew me in.

I like the way that he changes characters. It's not supposed to be following the lives of certain characters. It's centered around Narnia.

When I read it I had no idea that it had anything to do with the Bible. It's a book aimed at CHILDREN, so I don't have a problem with that.

Finally, I agree with you about the Heavan. It was to darned morlistic for me, even as a seven year old. The other books were very original, but this was very boring and sappy.


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## aliceedelweiss (May 27, 2006)

someone has probably pointed it out by now but, If they haven't:

I may be wrong but, I heard that C.S. Lewis was a precher so...the fact that he's preching christianity in his books is kind of...easy to understand.

Edit: 

I found this from En.wikipedia.org. 





> Lewis is said to have stated that he wrote the novels[chronicles of narnia] when he wondered what it would be like if Jesus Christ was incarnated on another world or planet to save the souls of those inhabitants.


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## New Moon (May 27, 2006)

I don't think he was a preacher, (I could be wrong lol) but the quote is something I've also heard. But I don't think Lewis meant to sneak in christianity, I think he meant for it to be known. And in his day and age, it probably was known, things have changed, I didn't know for awhile that it was christian, but when I found out, I wanted to read them.


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