# Title undecided (Possibly Lucifer's Fingers)



## Kreegen (Sep 23, 2017)

**Warning, strong language and violence**

So, to start, this is an excerpt. It is a scene I'm going to have in the middle of the book somewhere. I wrote it out because this scene is going to be wildly important later on. The character John has AIDS, he got it from a medical error as a child. Society is collapsing due to a fungus that is turning people into "Drones". Basically the fungus inhibits brain function and they end up dying of starvation. 
Keep in mind this is rough, and many changes will be made along the way, but I'd love some feedback. 


Excerpt

John stood in front of the medical clinic, a shotgun strapped to his back under his backpack, a pistol strapped to his thigh, and a large hunting knife on his belt. It was cold, the wind pierced his clothes and made him shiver. The sky was a dark grey, clouds covering any hint of blue, and the trees were all but leafless. Piles of orange, red, and brown covered the ground. He took a deep breath. He'd been here plenty of times before to get medication, but never like this. 

One of the Drones was standing in the street, she looked about thirteen. She was progressed pretty far, three deep red stalks were protruding from her forehead, blood running down her face. She stood staring at the sky, eyes a vacant, bloodshot red. John could tell she had stalks under her clothes as well, little fingers standing the sleeves of her shirt up. 

He walked over to the girl and pulled out his knife, she might as well be dead already, this would be a mercy, and some decent practice. As he approached, the Drone looked at him. She made some incoherent mumbling noises, followed by a deep guttural cough. She sounded like a dying animal. For all intents and purposes she was one. He walked close, maybe three feet away, and spit at the creature. It didn't react, never broke eye contact. She coughed, open mouthed, at him. He was very thankful for his mask at that moment. He laughed, the mask making a small suction noise when he inhaled. 

He flipped his knife in his right hand so the blade aimed down, and in a swift motion, grabbed the girl by the hair, and plunged the knife into her skull. Her body jerked and twitched before becoming dead weight. He pulled his knife out and blood began pouring out of the wound. He then let go of her hair and she slumped to the floor. He knew it wouldn't stop the stalks from sending spores, but it would at least limit this cluster's mobility. That was all the justification he needed. 

He turned back to the clinic. He was sure it would be relatively free of people. It hadn't been looted yet, but he wanted to be prepared anyway. He made sure both guns were loaded, then stepped up to the door. He pushed on the door, knowing it'd be locked. Then, click, it opened. He paused, why would it be open? Only one reason, someone was inside. Some employee not being cautious enough to lock the door behind them, they probably didn't understand how bad things were gonna get. They would soon. 

He walked in as quietly as he could through the door and down the hall. The lights were all on and he could hear talking and rustling down one of the halls. He stopped and tried to recall where the medication was stored, then realized it was in the same direction as the voices. No turning back now. He steeled himself, and readied his shotgun. 

He crept to the medicine storage and could hear the voices coming from in the large room. It was a man and woman, "Where is it? We need more." the man said. 

"What's it called again?" The woman asked. 

"Odefsey." the man responded hurriedly. 

No. Hell no. 

That's what John was there for. He couldn't wait any longer. He wasn't about to let them get it. He turned the corner and aimed his gun, "Get the fuck away from there."

They both looked up. The man was probably in his fifties, the woman in her thirties. The man looked frantic, he was bald, had glasses, and was wearing what looked like camping gear. The woman looked worn, tired, and disheveled. She had short black hair and brown eyes that looked at the gun with terror.

"Please, we just need medicine. Please don't hurt us." the man pleaded.

"Please. Don't." the girl added. 

John didn't respond. He stepped into the room a little further and aimed the gun directly at the man. 

"No no no no, just let us go! We didn't get much, you can have everything else!" the woman begged. 

"Not enough. I'm planning on surviving a long time. And I don't know the next time I'll find more." John responded coldly. He'd had enough of trying so hard. No more going broke for medicine. No more struggling. He was going to survive. No, he was going to live, and no one was getting in his way. 

The man looked at the woman, "She won't survive even a week without this. You can't need all of this for yourself. At least leave us some. Please!"

John paused, maybe he should let them have some. After a moment he felt his anger boiling up again. No, that bitch probably got it from fucking someone. If anyone deserved the medicine it was him, this disease wasn't his fault. He didn't make any choices or decisions that lead to this shit. 

As he was thinking the man suddenly lunged at him. John reacted on instinct, firing the shotgun twice. The shells exploded into the man's chest and face, blood spraying the room in a macabre red mist. The woman screamed a bloodcurdling scream. She ran at him and grabbed the shotgun, aiming it away from her and wrapped her hand around his neck. John swing his first into the side of the woman's face as hard as he could. She reeled back and he took the opportunity to strike her face as hard as he could with the stock of the shotgun. Blood shot from her nose and ran from her mouth. She staggered, holding her hand up to her face, a second later John struck again, knocking her to the ground. He struck her with the gun directly in her face again, breaking her nose. There was blood covering her face and she put her hands up weakly in protest. He could barely hear her screaming over the sound of his heartbeat. 

Thump thump

Blood

Thump thump

More blood. 

He hit her again, and again. The only thought on his head, survive. He struck her savagely over and over until her face was no longer recognizable. The stock of his gun was covered in scarlet blood and chunks of flesh. Her skull had ruptured and organic matter was splattered in a macabre painting all across the floor.

He finally stopped and stood upright, panting and exhausted from the effort. He looked at her remains with a vacant stare. Was this even real?

He looked at his hands, blood had covered them in streams and lines of red. He couldn't stop them from shaking. He looked over at the bottles of pills after what felt like hours. He took his backpack off and filled it with every bottle he could find, and picked the bag off the lifeless body of the man he'd shot.

He turned around and walked out of the clinic, a look of horror on his face. He walked out into the cold air outside and looked up. The sky was a deep red with splashes of lavender. He fell to his knees in the empty parking lot, propping himself up with the bloody shotgun, and tears began trailing down his face. He sobbed and shuddered.

He was alive, but a part of him had died in that room with those people, and he knew it.



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## bdcharles (Sep 25, 2017)

A parasitic mind control fungus? I'm in on that basis alone! 

In terms of the writing, you might want to think about how you can just bolster some of the verb choices. Rather than _had _and _made _and _were _and _stood _and _took_, think of ways you can make the event more vivid and dynamic; eg:


"John leaned against a twisted lamp-pole in the cracked parking lot of the medical clinic, a shotgun strapped to his  back under his backpack, a pistol snug against to his thigh, and a large  hunting knife hanging from his worn leather belt. Freezing wind pierced his clothes. He shivered beneath the stone-grey uniformity of cloud, kicking occasional dervishes of leafy reds and  browns as they spun across the chily asphalt. He took a deep breath. He'd been here plenty  of times before to get medication, but never like this."

So there I tried not to rely too much on things that basically say "something existed" but rather "something did something", to give it more control and mood and more means by which you can set the tone of both the scenery and the character (by having them interact, rather than having them simply exist side-by-side). Hopefully that makes sense?

Watch also for repetition (eg strapped, in the original text). Also - you like a comma splice. There is a time and a place for them but just consider a more structured sentence in some cases.

Hope this helps. Ignore if not


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## Kreegen (Sep 25, 2017)

bdcharles said:


> A parasitic mind control fungus? I'm in on that basis alone!
> 
> In terms of the writing, you might want to think about how you can just bolster some of the verb choices. Rather than _had _and _made _and _were _and _stood _and _took_, think of ways you can make the event more vivid and dynamic; eg:
> 
> ...



That is great advice, thanks a ton

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## Jack Dammit (Sep 25, 2017)

Noob here: Take this feedback from whence it comes.

• It would be hella uncomfortable to wear a shotgun under a backpack. Whenever the trigger-happy John wants to draw his shotgun he would have to jettison his backpack, which would be dangerously slow and awkward.  

• "the wind pierced his clothes and made him shiver" makes "It was cold" redundant.

• "Camping gear" refers to items like tents, sleeping bags, backpacks, stoves and cooking kits.  Assuming the frantic bald man wasn't wearing a tent, you could describe him as wearing "camping clothing", or, if you're pretentious like me, "camping attire".

• "Thump thump

Blood

Thump thump

More blood." 

could be pulled without changing anything.

• "Was this even real?" is a throwaway.

• "He was alive, but a part of him had died in that room with those people, and he knew it." is a great line but you could pull "and he knew it."

• "He turned around and walked out of the clinic, a look of horror on his face. He walked out into the cold air outside and looked up.": two "walked out"s.

• "He looked at his hands, blood had covered them in streams and lines of red": "His hands were covered in streams of blood."

• "The only thought on his head, survive.": "His only thought was to survive."


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## H.Brown (Sep 25, 2017)

Kreegen said:


> **Warning, strong language and violence**
> 
> 
> Excerpt
> ...



There are alot of edits that need to be made through out this excert and to me it reads like the first chapter of a book instead of supposed to being from the middle. Great start though and I eould be interested in reading more of it. Also edit and repost the edited version and I would be happy to look at it again. Keep writing.


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## Jay Greenstein (Sep 26, 2017)

> John stood in front of the medical clinic, a shotgun strapped to his  back under his backpack, a pistol strapped to his thigh, and a large  hunting knife on his belt.


You're thinking in terms of telling the reader a story. This line is what a verbal storyteller would say, to set up the scene and make up for the fact that the storyteller is alone on the stage and has no visual aids. It's detail you visualize. When you read, "John stood in front of the medical clinic," the words point to that image in your mind. But pity me. I just got here. How can it be "the" medical clinic when I don't know which one you're talking about? I don't know the country, the era, or even, with any certainty, the planet. So for me, the words point to that image in _*your *_mind. Doesn't help me much, right? But I'm a reader, one of those you write the story for. Doesn't it make sense to make the reader know what John does...as he does?

And think about it. It's John's story, right. What what matters more to a reader, what John's focused on, or what you, someone neither on the scene or in the story, notice? Why tell me he's wearing a backpack. That takes a line dedicated only to visual detail t_hat-he's-not-paying-any-attention-to_. And as I said, it's _his_ story. Want me to know he's wearing a backpack? Have him readjust the pack's straps on his shoulder as he studies the street. Then it's incidental enrichment to a line that tells us what he's focused on instead of being about what you see.

Instead of you the author _telling_ the reader what's happening, show what matters to him, and why. The first informs and the second involves. And given that your reader is with you hoping to be entertained...

It's not a matter of talent and potential, it's learning the tricks of our trade—the things that, once pointed out make you say, "Why didn't I see that for myself?" Some time spent digging out those tricks will be a wise investment of time.

Hang in there, and keep on writing.


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## Kreegen (Sep 26, 2017)

Jay Greenstein said:


> You're thinking in terms of telling the reader a story. This line is what a verbal storyteller would say, to set up the scene and make up for the fact that the storyteller is alone on the stage and has no visual aids. It's detail you visualize. When you read, "John stood in front of the medical clinic," the words point to that image in your mind. But pity me. I just got here. How can it be "the" medical clinic when I don't know which one you're talking about? I don't know the country, the era, or even, with any certainty, the planet. So for me, the words point to that image in _*your *_mind. Doesn't help me much, right? But I'm a reader, one of those you write the story for. Doesn't it make sense to make the reader know what John does...as he does?
> 
> And think about it. It's John's story, right. What what matters more to a reader, what John's focused on, or what you, someone neither on the scene or in the story, notice? Why tell me he's wearing a backpack. That takes a line dedicated only to visual detail t_hat-he's-not-paying-any-attention-to_. And as I said, it's _his_ story. Want me to know he's wearing a backpack? Have him readjust the pack's straps on his shoulder as he studies the street. Then it's incidental enrichment to a line that tells us what he's focused on instead of being about what you see.
> 
> ...


It's an excerpt. So, leading up to this there's going to be information about the clinic, where it is, etc. I wrote this scene out so I wouldn't forget it. 

And it's not just John's story. Obviously I didn't expect anyone who read just this to know that, but I'm planning on having the story follow multiple people, with no real main character. So I wanted the narration to come from a "neutral party" so to speak.  

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## Olly Buckle (Sep 26, 2017)

Kreegen said:


> It's an excerpt. So, leading up to this there's going to be information about the clinic, where it is, etc. I wrote this scene out so I wouldn't forget it.
> 
> And it's not just John's story. Obviously I didn't expect anyone who read just this to know that, but I'm planning on having the story follow multiple people, with no real main character. So I wanted the narration to come from a "neutral party" so to speak.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk



This may be so, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water;

"Want me to know he's wearing a backpack? Have him re-adjust the straps on his shoulder as he studies the street. Then it's incidental enrichment to a line that tells us what he's focused on."

This is really good advice, it gets more out of the line, enriches the reading experience by putting you in the mind of a character as well as telling you about the physical reality. That the character is central to the whole story or not is not hugely important, making him real in the section where he has some importance is. I might disagree with Jay if it made some trivial bystander over important and distracted from the actual story, but that does not seem to be the case.

Crit, like writing, is often not in the form we might put it ourselves, but when someone takes the trouble to point something out it is because something has struck them, ignore the 'I like this, good job, I would read more' comments that do not address actual issues, but when they are talking about your writing, rather than their feelings about your writing, it is usually worth taking the time and making the effort to see if there is something in there you can use, even if the way they phrase it does not instantly grab you.


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## Jack of all trades (Sep 26, 2017)

Kreegen said:


> It's an excerpt. So, leading up to this there's going to be information about the clinic, where it is, etc. I wrote this scene out so I wouldn't forget it.
> 
> And it's not just John's story. Obviously I didn't expect anyone who read just this to know that, but I'm planning on having the story follow multiple people, with no real main character. So I wanted the narration to come from a "neutral party" so to speak.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk



I get it. The book is not just John's story. What about this excerpt? Do you consider this piece to be a piece of John's story, or multiple people's story/stories?

It's a great idea to write scenes that you're inspired to write. I think inspired writing is better quality than forced writing. Though sometimes I'm surprised by a "I've got to get this done" scene becoming inspired during the writing process.

So overall, kudos.

About the backback suggestion. I don't like adding action that is out of character, so if John wouldn't adjust the straps on his backpack he shouldn't. That's a suggestion from someone who doesn't really know the character. The sentiment behind the suggestion is valid, however. There's telling the reader something and then there's showing it. And it can be an art finding the right balance. Sometimes telling is best and sometimes showing.

For a first draft, what you have is pretty good. Note the comments made and refer to them during the editing process.

Keep in mind that this section is visible to guests as well as members. Therefore it counts as published. So don't put too much here. If you want feedback on other pieces of your book, I recommend the prose workshop in the members only section.


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## Kreegen (Sep 26, 2017)

Jack of all trades said:


> I get it. The book is not just John's story. What about this excerpt? Do you consider this piece to be a piece of John's story, or multiple people's story/stories?
> 
> It's a great idea to write scenes that you're inspired to write. I think inspired writing is better quality than forced writing. Though sometimes I'm surprised by a "I've got to get this done" scene becoming inspired during the writing process.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I wasn't discounting your advice, I'm certainly going to go over it and see how I can make the scene more dynamic, but I just wanted to clarify those points so there wasn't too much misunderstanding about the nature of the excerpt.
And I'll definitely look into posting in the members only section. 

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## Jay Greenstein (Sep 26, 2017)

Kreegen said:


> It's an excerpt.


It's the opening to the story. And if it doesn't inspire the reader to turn to page two they won't, and never learn that it's a good story. Remember, the reader is a volunteer, not a conscript, so unless you give them what they're seeking they leave. And what they seek is to be entertained, beginning with story, not history. So from line one the reader _must_ have context for the words. And that's what you're missing. You talk about a clinic, for example, one that could be any kind, in any place. You have the image when you read the first line,and know the story is post apocalypse, and looks it  but the reader has only the neutral word, "clinic." The clinic nearist me is a pretty nice looking place, on a city street. But that's not the image you want me to call up. You want the one you see, but didn't give the reader.

In the words of Sol Stein, “A novel is like a car—it won’t go anywhere until you turn on the engine. The “engine” of both fiction and nonfiction is the point at which the reader makes the decision not to put the book down. The engine should start in the first three pages, the closer to the top of page one the better.” Ask yourself what, in the first 750 words, will make the reader lean back in their chair and say, "Tell me more."



> So, leading up to this there's going to be information about the clinic, where it is, etc.


You're thinking in terms of plot, and the events and make it up. So you're focusing on informing the reader, giving background and visual information. Bit does your protagonist give a damn it it's a clinic in the moment the story begins? No. He's ignoring that and the sky you mention. He's focused on the "drone." So why mention that the building is a clinic—especially since we don't know why it matters that it is. _after_ he dispatches the drone is when he refocuses on his need/desire for the medicine. That's when it matters to him so _then_ is when it matters to the reader. Explaining things when the reader, and character, has no _need_ to know is the surest way of turning the reader away from the story because it's information they haven't been made to want.

Believe me, I mean no insult. Nor am I trying to discourage you, only save you wasted time. At the moment your writing tools are those we're all given in school. And if they were useful to fiction writers, your teachers—who study and use those techniques more than most—would be selling their own writing and making a lot more money than they do now. If we learned what we need while in our school days the majority of new writers would be new grads. But that doesn't happen because writing fiction for the page requires vastly different process from the writing skills we were given in school. Just like any other profession the hopefull practitioner must learn the tricks of ours.

And while the reading you've done has given you a feel for writing that works, what you see when you read is the highly polished product of both the author and the editor, both of whom are using professionally acquired skills. To create that product, like the author, you must know the process. And in our schooling we're never told there is a unique process for fiction. If you don't know the structure of a scene in fiction for the page, for example—and it's not at all like in other mediums—you cannot write in a way that will make the reader _want_ to read on. It's not a matter of talent or story, those are separate issues. It's having the necessary tools and specialized knowledge.

I've been through editing more than once or twice, and even though I am conversant with the techniques of fiction my work comes back with so many notations they're hard pressed to all fit on the page at once.

But if you don't know what a scene-goal is, and why it's important to have one, as you do here you won't include one...and receive the benefits it provides. Nor will you address the three issues that provide a reader with context. It's not a matter of good or bad writing, it boils down to Mark Twain's observation of: “It ain’t what you don’t know that  gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”"

Spending some time digging into such things can not only help your story, it will prevent you as they say, from "practicing bad habits into concrete."


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## VonBradstein (Oct 16, 2017)

Here's my fifty cents, Kreegen, and I hope it is well taken.

First of all I would not recommend posting an excerpt from the middle of the book. Regardless of how you preface it with a summary, the middle 'action' pieces are rarely a good introduction to a book or even your writing. There is a reason most agents will ask for the first 10-20 pages of a submission, not a random slice. 

Secondly, I think this a decent concept, based on your little description at the start. Sure, its one of those ideas that could just as easily be awful as it could be brilliant, but the general concept of a biological or chemical weapon transforming humanity is one I share an interest in. So I am attracted to the work on that.

As far as the excerpt itself, I am a little disappointed. Here's the thing, the writing isn't bad. With a little editing and grammar control it is fine for a basic thriller. It shows potential to be as good as at least some lowbrow thrillers (Hey James Patterson) and with enough work could even scrabble upward. You get kudos in my opinion for keeping your narrative simple and direct. The problem I have is that, for a high action scene in a thriller, it doesn't really engage me as a reader. It's actually, and I hate to say it, fairly dull. It reads like a police report or piece of courtroom testimony injected with the occasional superlative and adverb. 

_*He walked over to the girl and pulled out his knife, she might as well be dead already, this would be a mercy, and some decent practice. As he approached, the Drone looked at him. She made some incoherent mumbling noises, followed by a deep guttural cough. She sounded like a dying animal. For all intents and purposes she was one. He walked close, maybe three feet away, and spit at the creature. It didn't react, never broke eye contact. She coughed, open mouthed, at him. He was very thankful for his mask at that moment. He laughed, the mask making a small suction noise when he inhaled. 

*_^This is a scene packed full of missed potential. In this I wanted to know how exactly how this 'Drone' sounded and looked - what kind of 'dying animal', exactly? Also this as a description is borderline cliche - and I also wanted some indication of emotion. I'm not sure who this character is exactly, but he doesn't sound particularly affected by what is happening when it is happening. You do attempt to address his emotions in places, but it comes across as being cold.

The biggest issue i have with this is actually the character. Again, I appreciate I missed a lot of the backstory, but what I see when I see this guy is your everyday macho ass - Ash from Evil Dead or Schwarzenegger type. The only aspect of him I was somewhat interested in was when you mentioned he has AIDS. I'm not totally sure how that fits in with the brain fungus thing or what your motive was for having the character be an AIDS patient, but if it can be worked into the story and given value beyond exploitation that's cool... 

What I would wonder though is why have it so he has AIDS from a medical error when its well known that the vast majority of those with AIDS acquire it from unprotected sex? Why not make him a gay character with AIDS? I'm not suggesting contriving an entire plot simply to include a gay character (or that only gay men have aids, obviously) but it's more realistic and doesn't come across as 'hetero-izing' something still predominantly affecting homosexuals. When I think of action movies and books, there is probably an opening for more LGBTQ characters and if its fundamental to the plot that this guy has to have AIDS, I would rather it be made more realistic and, frankly, more interesting. Your story needs more interesting.


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