# How do I know if I'm a terrible writer?



## ViKtoricus (Jan 10, 2014)

How do I know if what I'm writing is simply the nuances of my voice and my style, or if it simply sucks?

I'm a huge fan of Douglas Adams. Though, I am aware of his unorthodox writing style. There are more adverbs in his dialogue attributions than the total amount of sperm cells within your average male testicle. And he often switches from third person to second person.

But obviously, it works for him.


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## popsprocket (Jan 10, 2014)

The difference is that Adams was writing satire. Satire defies the generally accepted rules of writing fiction.

But how do you know anything sucks? Popular opinion? What you've been taught? Your own judgement?

Really the only thing you can do is look at your work and ask yourself if you are really happy. But, whether or not you answer 'yes', you still keep writing and trying to be better. Everyone sucked at writing at first. Some people just take longer to hone their skills than others.


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## ViKtoricus (Jan 10, 2014)

Oh my God.... Did I waste months of my life trying to emulate something that I shouldn't have?


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## Sam (Jan 10, 2014)

You are not Douglas Adams. Neither are you Fyodor Dostoevsky. Stop trying to be someone you aren't. That's your first problem.


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## Grape Juice Vampire (Jan 10, 2014)

^This. Emulation is all well and good, but in the end you're only flattering the person you are emulating. Better to take lessons from them and go your own way.


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## escorial (Jan 10, 2014)

you don't because you believe in you


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## BeastlyBeast (Jan 11, 2014)

You know you're a terrible writer when... I don't know. Terrible writer is a very subjective term, up for a lot of interpretation. For example, some may classify Stephen King, George rr Martin and Jrr Tolkien as some of the best and most iconic authors of all time, while others may believe they're terrible. Are they or aren't they? It depends who you are. So to answer the question, how do you know if you're a terrible writer is: if you, yourself, are the only person interested in what you write. Then by those terms, you are 99.9% a terrible writer.

side note! don't emulate. You can have a favorite author, and may even want to write in a similar style or in the same genre as them, but when you try to write like someone else, it never comes out right, because you are not that person.


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## shedpog329 (Jan 11, 2014)

Do you and what feels close to you. If you manage to bring someone else along for the ride you must be doing something right.


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## Potty (Jan 11, 2014)

i prsnlly fid ive really really god riteing skills. i think u no wen ur  riteing is bad or no bad. its lyeque a cake... If u byte and taste poo u shud stop baking.


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## Jeko (Jan 11, 2014)

> Oh my God.... Did I waste months of my life trying to emulate something that I shouldn't have?



No; nothing you do is waste. I wasted months trying to be one author after another - you develop as you do it, and getting out of the habit of conscious imitation is part of growing up as a writer; like how a singer may want to initially 'be' Beyonce, but eventually they realize that they need to be themselves. But in the time they were imitating her, they got better at singing.

You will always progress better if you be yourself; but you can still progress by trying to someone else. The best way to be yourself when writing, IMO, is by reading and writing a variety of styles, exploring the options open to you, and not imposing self-limitation at this stage.


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## Gavrushka (Jan 11, 2014)

I think to be a good writer, you have to first spend a long time as a terrible writer. - I dare anyone here to claim that the first time they put pen to paper, the smell was of anything other than of rotting manure!


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## Potty (Jan 11, 2014)

I'll rise to that dare!


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## Jeko (Jan 11, 2014)

> I think to be a good writer, you have to first spend a long time as a terrible writer.



Shakespeare comes to mind. 

(as a good example)


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## Gavrushka (Jan 11, 2014)

Potty said:


> I'll rise to that dare!



Here is the earliest version of the opening paragraph of the first story I ever wrote... 



			
				me in 2009 said:
			
		

> Likra sank her feet in the mossy soil sighing contentedly as the cool water formed a band around her ankles caressing and tickling at the same time. Syul sat impatiently, snapping at a butterfly that got too close before announcing it was time for another game with a high pitched and most un-Syul like bark, followed by a series of whines, which may have been embarrassment, but far more likely just further irritation.
> 
> Likra was 14, and rapidly approaching 15....



You know, I sent this, along with fifty more pages, to London's foremost agent, and I received a lovely rejection letter suggesting that I took up golf instead.


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## Gavrushka (Jan 11, 2014)

I feel like I've just announced to the world that I like to wear women's underwear with my previous post! :/


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## PiP (Jan 11, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> I feel like I've just announced to the world that I like to wear women's underwear with my previous post! :/



Really? 



> You know, I sent this, along with fifty more pages, to London's foremost  agent, and I received a lovely rejection letter suggesting that I took  up golf instead.



At least you received a response


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## Potty (Jan 11, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> I feel like I've just announced to the world that I like to wear women's underwear with my previous post! :/



Brave! Im impressed you shared. Mine was worse so fear not, I'll see if I still have a copy. I sent mine to bridport AND 15 publishing houses without enough postage on. I also included a full page author profile to save them time when they accepted it!


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## Kevin (Jan 11, 2014)

> and I received a lovely rejection letter suggesting that I took up golf instead.


 I hope you saved it. That is something I would cherish. 'Oh Great Humilifier...'


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## Morkonan (Jan 11, 2014)

ViKtoricus said:


> How do I know if what I'm writing is simply the nuances of my voice and my style, or if it simply sucks?...



You'll know when you learn how to write. 

In other words, you won't really know until you understand what it is you're supposed to be doing and how best to go about doing it. Anyone can throw words up on a page. But, a writer pays attention to how those words are arranged and what words are used. Sure, a writer can make mistakes and write something that "sucks." But, when they read over it, they _know_ it sucks. They might not have realized it when they were writing, but once it's fully formed and staring them in the face, it's pretty hard for a writer to ignore something that sucks. 

When you read your work, what do you think of it? How greatly does that contrast against what others who read it think of it? Sometimes, you need input and you need someone to tell you that you're doing it all wrong. False-confidence is fleeting for writers. In fact, it doesn't last any longer than it takes to receive a rejection letter.

I think something has to be said in order to further define the problem - What is it that you think might "suck?" Bad stories can be wonderfully written and good stories can be murdered by terrible writing. (Well, I hesitate to call something that is terribly written a "story," but it's better than calling it an unfledged idea.)

In order to be confident, you have to know the rules. I don't mean that you have to be "familiar" with them or that you had to have seen them once. I mean you have to be intimately familiar with them. Sure, you might have to look up how to use a semi-colon in a tricky passage, but you should never be guilty of thinking your sentence fragment is a success. Once you can read over your work and truly know that there aren't any grammatical errors, you can start feeling confident in your writing as far as grammar is concerned. The same goes for other writing mechanics, as well. For instance, once you can truly know that all your dialogue is formatted appropriately, you cans start feeling confident about formatting dialogue. The list goes on..

But, notice - There's no mention of "story" or "plot" here. That's a different animal, altogether. I'm sure many people will disagree, but I don't think you can fully realize a story or plot in a written work if you haven't first written it correctly in terms of basic mechanics. Nobody is going to know how great your story is if they can't follow the dialogue or can't understand exposition because you can't write grammatically correct sentences.

Work on one thing at a time. First off, pay strict attention to your grammar and punctuation. Get it right and do all that you can to get it right the first time. It does you no good to write grammatically incorrect sentences a hundred times, then go over them with a grammar checker. That just reinforces bad habits. Instead, work on every sentence you write until you know that it is correct. Only then can you move on to the next one. (A limited amount of jotting down good ideas is acceptable, but don't go too far down the page without checking your work.) Once you can write grammatically correct, you no longer have to worry about it and you can focus on "real writing."

You'll get there with perseverance.


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## Jeko (Jan 11, 2014)

> You'll know when you learn how to write.



I'd replace 'when' with 'as'; as a writer, you're always learning. At least, you always should be.


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## Terry D (Jan 11, 2014)

Morkonan said:


> You'll get there with perseverance.



Or not.

If you put in the work, learn the tools, and practice them frequently and with determination you can become proficient at putting together sentences and paragraphs, but not everyone is capable of being a good fiction writer. The craft of writing is only one part of what it takes to become a writer of quality fiction. The other side of that scale is balanced with talent. By talent I mean possessing the judgment to know how to apply the tools and when to modify them, or scrap them completely; how to design and pace a good story; how to take an idea and suck on it like a Tootsi-Pop until you get down to the rich chocolate core of it. That ability is born into each of us, but, like athletic talent, we all have it to a different degree. Even the scrawniest, most uncoordinated kid can learn to play a sport, but not every kid -- no matter how hard they work -- can excel at one.

Learn the craft and practice it relentlessly. Experiment. Try outlining. Try writing by the seat of your pants. Try editing as you go, and try waiting until the story is done. You won't learn what work for you without some experimentation. Each experiment will teach you something, and it's in that learning that you develop your skills. By mastering the skills of writing you can become competent (an accomplishment in itself) and that competence will allow whatever natural talent you have to express itself. Read, read, and read some more. Reading is the food which nourishes talent, without it you will not achieve your potential any more that an athlete can achieve his without eating right.

Assume that your writing sucks like a Dyson. Will knowing that make you stop writing? . . . Didn't think so. So, work your butt off and sharpen the skills. If you do that then you will be giving your innate talent everything it needs to take you as far you can go. Isn't that the most we can ask?


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## FleshEater (Jan 11, 2014)

Anyone can learn to write well. The real question is; can you learn to tell a story well? I think most successful writers have a knack for telling a story well before they try to write one. But, that's my opinion.


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## Leyline (Jan 11, 2014)

The people who read you get to decide.


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## J Anfinson (Jan 11, 2014)

Gavrushka said:


> You know, I sent this, along with fifty more pages, to London's foremost agent, and I received a lovely rejection letter suggesting that I took up golf instead.



I can't wait to get something like that. :applouse: I live for rejection, bring it on.

As to the OP, just write whatever you want to write and let your own voice come out with time. It doesn't happen overnight, though. It's a long, hard road and everyone sucks at first.


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## Justin Rocket (Jan 12, 2014)

If you don't put your rear in that seat, daily, and your goal is to be a pro, you're terrible.

"terrible writer" is not to be confused with "novice writer".

As for "do you have within you the potential to write well enough to live on your writing?" I don't know.  But, every profession is the same way.  Some people lack the potential to live off their computer skills.  Some lack the potential to live off their management skills.   The only way to tell is with experience.  So, put your butt in a chair and write.


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## Citizen (Jan 12, 2014)

I have found the old fashion concept of money to be a good measuring stick.  I am with Justin Rocket on this one.  Novice does not mean terrible.  I am either a terrible novice writer or I am a novice terrible writer.  I have not decided which it should be for now.


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## Tettsuo (Jan 13, 2014)

You're a bad writer when you can't relate what you want to say using the symbols of language effective.


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## irishmoe (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm 100% confident in my professional writing skills (articles, tech writing) but I'm totally lost when it comes to judging my writing of fiction. I know the story behind the words already so I have a completely skewed view of the paragraph in front of me. I think it will come with time but I am certainly not admitting to a female undergarment fetish until I'm sure my bum doesn't look big in them.


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## har134 (Jan 13, 2014)

All I know is that, if your plot or story is interesting enough, there will be people who read it. But even with great prose if your plot is boring, very few will read enough to appreciate the beauty of your prose. 

Know enough prose to use simple language effectively and focus on the story. All great writers have their own unique style. I don't think it can be boiled down to specific structure.

But unless you're literally trying to write an epic, try to cut down on excessive descriptions and excruciating detail.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 13, 2014)

Leyline said:


> The people who read you get to decide.



Exactly this.  If reviews and critiques of your work have very little good to say, and if you consistently receive those sorts of responses without any apparent improvement, you're probably a terrible writer.

I'm not saying any of those things is true about you; it's just how I'd determine who's decent and who isn't.


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## David Gordon Burke (Jan 13, 2014)

FleshEater said:


> Anyone can learn to write well. The real question is; can you learn to tell a story well? I think most successful writers have a knack for telling a story well before they try to write one. But, that's my opinion.



Or vice versa.  The world of fiction is only part 'telling a story.'  It's inventing a story.  Whole other ball of ear wax.  

David Gordon Burke


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## David Gordon Burke (Jan 13, 2014)

As has been mentioned on the boards previously, 'If you have to ask.....the answer is probably bad news.'  
But hell, that could be wrong too.
I'll tell you what, run along now and write about 100,000 words....I don't care what they are about.  Fiction, non-fiction, biography, autobiography, instruction manual...whatever.
When you have finished it, go back to the beginning and review every word, every comma, semi-colon etc. Are the right words capitalized?  Is every possible grammatical issue correct?  Ok.
While you do this you should also participate in various forums, keep up your correspondence with friends, comment on bad youtube videos and do any other writing you can think of.  In every case you should make quality and correctedness your main priority.  
When you finish that you should have the ability to answer your own question...or not have the need to ask it.  

Until you do that...... self doubt, writer's block and a whole bevy of other obstacles will sap you of your creativity.

David Gordon Burke


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## notre dame (Jan 13, 2014)

Find your own voice. Some will like it, some will find it distasteful. I can't stand JK Rowling's 'voice' as a writer. I cannot deny the popularity of Harry Potter, nor the success she has had - and good luck to her. No doubt many of the agents/editors who disliked her 'voice' are kicking themselves for not seeing that something. In the business of writing, you cannot second guess what people will see as 'good' or 'terrible'. One man's meat... etc. etc. Just be yourself, be true to yourself and write for yourself. Write the book you would like to read. If anyone else wishes to read it, it's a bonus. If you enjoy reading it, you have achieved something. Just tell the damned story...


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## ViKtoricus (Jan 15, 2014)

David Gordon Burke said:


> The world of fiction is only part 'telling a story.'  It's inventing a story.



Stephen King would disagree to this. He said in his book On Writing that stories pretty much make themselves, and that your job as a writer is to find stories within yourself instead of trying to construct one from scrap.


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## Justin Rocket (Jan 15, 2014)

ViKtoricus said:


> Stephen King would disagree to this. He said in his book On Writing that stories pretty much make themselves, and that your job as a writer is to find stories within yourself instead of trying to construct one from scrap.



I've often found, but only after the fact, that the story I labored so hard to invent was, in fact, ripped from my own psychological "bone marrow", so much so that reading the story later serves as a kind of self-psychoanalysis.


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## Gavrushka (Jan 16, 2014)

ViKtoricus said:


> Stephen King would disagree to this. He said in his book On Writing that stories pretty much make themselves, and that your job as a writer is to find stories within yourself instead of trying to construct one from scrap.



If I ever sat down and considered constructing a story in advance, I'd likely run shrieking and gibbering to the funny farm. Yes, the story is suggested by the summation of the words I've written so far, and even the smallest interaction between characters, or trivial event, can send the whole thing off at a tangent.


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## David Gordon Burke (Jan 16, 2014)

ViKtoricus said:


> Stephen King would disagree to this. He said in his book On Writing that stories pretty much make themselves, and that your job as a writer is to find stories within yourself instead of trying to construct one from scrap.



Mr. King is being flippant about the art of creating a story.  I have dabbled over the years with songwriting.  Often a song will just come to you.  Steve Earle, the great outlaw country singer say that the songs are just floating around in the air or trapped in a guitar and need to come out.  

Let's come down to earth here, shall we?  Guitars don't have songs trapped in them and stories get invented by writers.  What Mr. King is saying is that a good premise with good characters and a lot of hard work will lead to the story writing - telling - inventing process being 'easy' or 'painless.'  Doesn't change to nature of the process.  The story can't be told until it is invented.  And stories don't write themselves.  (Got to run home and check my hard-drive for any hidden best-sellers.....oh, please)  

As a person with the ambition to become a writer, it might be wise to take a step back from Mr. King.  He isn't Moses, Buddah or Jesus Christ.  How easy is it for Mr.  King to throw out these little tidbits of wisdom with the kind of bank balance he holds.  Rewind 40 years to when he was struggling to get published and I'm sure he would have put it a different way.  

To change the entire focus of this post ... here's my advice to you.  If you want to write well, then do exactly that.  
You said, "Stephen King would disagree to this."  How does a person disagree to?  Shouldn't that be disagree *'with'*? 

....." instead of trying to construct one from scrap."  While the metaphor isn't wrong, I think what you are trying to say is to construct one from *scratch*.  

From scrap means from bits and pieces left-over from previous projects.  Junk material.
From scratch means using all raw materials that are not pre-processed or prepared.  

My two cents.

David Gordon Burke


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 16, 2014)

ViKtoricus said:


> Stephen King would disagree to this. He said in his book On Writing that stories pretty much make themselves, and that your job as a writer is to find stories within yourself instead of trying to construct one from scrap.



Let's do an exercise.  Instead of continuing to parrot King, why don't you look around for other authors who are just as prolific, or even moreso, than King is.  Read what they have to say, then get back to us.  You could even start here for ideas.

Here's the thing: the processes Stephen King promotes are the ones that worked FOR HIM.  You are not Stephen King.  You need to find what works for YOU.  Bring me a novel you've written with the same acclaim as King's (or even comparable writing quality), and I'll concede that you did well by religiously following his advice.  Until then, look around.  Experiment.  Get ideas from everywhere, not just one source.

But most of all, WRITE.


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