# If Jupiter vanished, what effect would it have on Earth?



## Caragula (Sep 21, 2013)

as per title.  Would it destroy us or not affect us at all?  I presume its pull affects us somehow.


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## escorial (Sep 21, 2013)

You may have to come at it on two fronts..1..the law of physics...2..gods reaction...depends on your point of view.


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## Outiboros (Sep 21, 2013)

Short term, none at all. Jupiter is at too great a distance to have any significant gravitational influence on the Earth, and we'd keep on spinning happily. However, there could be long-term effects on other bodies. Jupiter is enormous and as such has an enormous part to play in the solar pinball match. As it is, everything seems relatively stable - who knows what will happen if you'd erase Jupiter?

Not that much, I think. The orbits of the planets will differ slightly, but it's not like any of them will crash into each other or fall into the sun. More drastic would be the effect on Jupiter's 67 moons. Those could go shooting all around the place, or maybe form a small body of their own.

In short, nope. The pull Jupiter has on us is minuscule in comparison with that of the Moon.


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## Bruno Spatola (Sep 21, 2013)

Well Jupiter is an ally to Earth, or at least was, in the sense that it acted like a hoover towards comets. Without it, I fear our planet wouldn't have lasted very long. Cosmically, anyway.

At the moment, I believe, the removal of it would also be beneficial in a way. If what I've read is correct, Jupiter is responsible for sending asteroids towards the sun, thus within our solar system, and that ain't good.

Then again, our planet's space programs have used its gravitational pull to boomerang satellites and the like deeper into space. We'd have to come up with another solution to make deep space travel as efficient as possible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone. Our relationship is bittersweet, in short.


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## Outiboros (Sep 21, 2013)

Bruno Spatola said:


> Well Jupiter is an ally to Earth, or at least was, in the sense that it acted like a hoover towards comets. Without it, I fear our planet wouldn't have lasted very long. Cosmically, anyway.


Oh, we've weathered plenty of impacts over the millions of years. No Shoemaker-Levy 9's, maybe, but plenty of big guys. We're not a very large target in any case.


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## Pidgeon84 (Sep 21, 2013)




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## Blade (Sep 21, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> More drastic would be the effect on Jupiter's 67 moons. Those could go shooting all around the place, or maybe form a small body of their own.
> 
> In short, nope. The pull Jupiter has on us is minuscule in comparison with that of the Moon.



There are also two clusters of asteroids that orbit in the same orbit as Jupiter that would be affected by the giant planets disappearance. I would imagine that they would just continue in their paths off into deep space though and not likely bother the Earth. I am not a hundred per cent sure on this but I can see no reason why they would turn inward.


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## Outiboros (Sep 21, 2013)

Blade said:


> There are also two clusters of asteroids that orbit in the same orbit as Jupiter that would be affected by the giant planets disappearance. I would imagine that they would just continue in their paths off into deep space though and not likely bother the Earth. I am not a hundred per cent sure on this but I can see no reason why they would turn inward.


I didn't know there were. A picture seems to suggest they're in Jupiter's Lagrange points, so they'd definitely veer off if Jupiter was to disappear. Those might fall towards the sun and slingshot into deep space or establish lower orbits, or maybe wildly elliptical orbits. They might intersect Earth's.

The reason they would turn inward is because they are not prevented from turning outward by Jupiter but rather prevented from falling inward, the way I see it. I'm no astrophysicist, but I think that might be how those Lagrange points work.


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## Whimsica (Sep 21, 2013)

Oooooh I love topics like this. Space is fascinating to me


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## Blade (Sep 21, 2013)

Outiboros said:


> I didn't know there were. A picture seems to suggest they're in Jupiter's Lagrange points, so they'd definitely veer off if Jupiter was to disappear. Those might fall towards the sun and slingshot into deep space or establish lower orbits, or maybe wildly elliptical orbits. They might intersect Earth's.
> 
> The reason they would turn inward is because they are not prevented from turning outward by Jupiter but rather prevented from falling inward, the way I see it. I'm no astrophysicist, but I think that might be how those Lagrange points work.



I think you are right about the Lagrange points, they are in the asteroid belt orbit and not Jupiter's. I am a little rusty on this material actually.

The presence of Jupiter creates a gravitational balance point so that the asteroids collect in an equal pull location. If Jupiter were to vanish the balance would vanish and, at least on gravitational grounds, the asteroids would begin to fall toward the sun. However in reality each asteroid possesses significant angular momentum, i.e. is a mass heading in a certain direction at a rather high speed. 

Since the asteroids are already captured in solar orbit it would seem that removing the outward pull of Jupiter would serve only to drop them into a closer orbit around the sun rather than falling into disarray thus not posing a threat to Earth. I really cannot see here how chaos could result from simply altering the gravitational balance a little bit.


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## Caragula (Sep 22, 2013)

Hey guys, thanks so much for the replies, it is relevant to a novel I'm writing, rather than idle scientific speculation   And to answer escorial, it's God that's done it.....


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## Blade (Sep 22, 2013)

Caragula said:


> Hey guys, thanks so much for the replies, it is relevant to a novel I'm writing, rather than idle scientific speculation   And to answer escorial, it's God that's done it.....



I find that believable though it is a little dicey trying to respect a God who seems to be using our solar system for parts.:icon_shaking2:


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## Caragula (Sep 23, 2013)

He's not been himself....


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## Cran (Sep 23, 2013)

blade said:


> i think you are right about the lagrange points, they are in the asteroid belt orbit and not jupiter's. I am a little rusty on this material actually.


Both, as it happens, as well as other "interesting" places. All orbiting bodies have the five quasi-stable Lagrange points, with the most stable being L4 and L5 (60 degrees ahead and behind in the same orbit) - also known as the "trojan" points. For the trojan points to be stable enough to host significant (ie, visible) objects, the mass ratio between the primary and satellite of the system has to be roughly 25:1 or higher. For the sun and any planet, that ratio is well and truly exceeded, so that almost all planetary orbits include some captured material in the trojan positions; for the inner planets, this is somewhat offset by the solar wind. The first discovered, and probably best known trojans are those of the Sun-Jupiter system, but trojan asteroids have also been found in the orbits of Mars and Saturn. 

But the sun and any planet is not the only place where the right mass ratio can be found; the same ratio occurs between a planet and any of its satellites, and captured asteroids have been found in the trojans of the Jupiter and larger satellite systems, and similar in the Saturn and larger satellite systems. 



> the presence of jupiter creates a gravitational balance point so that the asteroids collect in an equal pull location. If jupiter were to vanish the balance would vanish and, at least on gravitational grounds, the asteroids would begin to fall toward the sun. However in reality each asteroid possesses significant angular momentum, i.e. Is a mass heading in a certain direction at a rather high speed.
> 
> Since the asteroids are already captured in solar orbit it would seem that removing the outward pull of jupiter would serve only to drop them into a closer orbit around the sun rather than falling into disarray thus not posing a threat to earth. I really cannot see here how chaos could result from simply altering the gravitational balance a little bit.


The asteroid belt is not in a Lagrangian or equipotential relationship with Jupiter. Jupiter's influence on the asteroids is more like the influence that the three largest of its satellites have on Io; in other words, a waxing and waning rythmic pull as their respective orbits brought them closer together and then further apart. What that did was prevent the initial collection of material in the fifth solar orbit from coalescing into a planet under its own collective gravitational influence. Over time, free dust and volatiles (ices and trapped gases) were removed by solar wind action, leaving only the larger rocky and metallic objects which are too small individually, and too scattered collectively, to mutually overcome the rhythmic gravitational influences of Jupiter, and to a much lesser extent Mars.

The more "interesting" places for asteroids are the highly elliptical and variously eccentric solar orbits which carry the asteroids "across" the orbital paths of the inner planets, although "across" is misleading because most of these orbits are not in the same orbital plane as the major bodies and therefore pass either well "above" or "below" the orbital paths of the inner planets. There is plenty of geological evidence to suggest, however, that a few large ones do actually intersect the planetary orbits, and even casual star-gazing provides evidence that the small stuff is common.


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## Whisper (Sep 23, 2013)

One thing you'll have to consider is that Juipter has approx 67 moons that orbit it (there may be more. 67 is just th number we know about). If Juipter suddenly vanished these 67+ moons would suddenly rocket off into space on whatever tragerty they happened to be at the time of the vanishing. 

There are in fact hundreds of different ways the sudden vanishing of Juipter might affact us. The thing that must be remembered is that in space, the tinest change can have a huge impact. For example, the various gravitational pulls from each planet has helped stablize the varous orbits. Juipters sudden dissapareance could actually shift an orbit of another planet by just a few degrees which in turn could shift others. A few degrees might not sound like much, but a few degrees might be enough to start wobbling a planet. Also, with the lesser gravitational pull on Earth, the Earth's rotation could speed up (however, this would probably be only a few miliseconds).

My advice is that talk to a local professor, ask him, try to stick close to what he thinks, but the fact is, since no one really knows, it's fair game to have the affects you want, as long as they're not out of this world (see what I did there).


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## Whisper (Sep 23, 2013)

Oh and by the way, Jupiters largest moon is bigger then ours. Imagine that lose in the solar system.


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## Blade (Sep 25, 2013)

It has crossed my mind that the disappearance of Jupiter would be somewhat of a catastrophe for the Astrological community. Imagine one of your major indicators just suddenly ceasing to exist.:bi_polo:

They could just worked in pencil though, I suppose.:nonchalance:


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## philistine (Sep 25, 2013)

I, and likely everyone else on this forum, are not entirely qualified to answer such a question with any great accuracy.


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## The Tourist (Sep 25, 2013)

I'll have to rely on two things to answer this one.  I have two seemingly diverse experiences that make the answer quite obvious.

The first element is that I was a credit manager for several distressed companies trying to stave off bankruptcies--I've seen deep lay-offs.  Second, my wife is a "Big Bang Theory" fan, and watches a cable channel that routinely does their marathons.

In one of these shows, Sheldon invented a game called, "In a world."  The Premise of this game was that based on a given stipulation, you predict the eventual outcome of the world.  So here goes.

In a world where Jupiter vanished, what effect would it have on earth?  Duh.  It's obvious to me, Frito Lays' "Cheetos" becomes our new national monetary currency.

Here's the rationale.  Without Jupiter, our solar system dramatically changes.  One of the driving forces to innovation and commerce is space exploration and ongoing large investments in new technology.  Even without new space ventures, the mantel of leadership in space brings new investments from foreign countries.

With both lack of governmental and foreign investment, our economy staggers.  Without heroes in real space or in Hollywood movies, our national hope dies.  People don't want to get up in the morning.  Industry falters, people lose hope and either quit their thankless jobs or become reluctant to fuel the economic rebound.  Businesses have no option but to cut back production and/or lay off tens of millions.

A buddy of mine who runs a convenience store told me that during the last plant shut down, lots of guys rented porno movies and loaded up on salty snacks.  He couldn't keep Cheetos on the shelf.

With my background in finance I surmise that Cheetos could be the only thing both demanded by the public and becoming a growth industry.  We'll trade for them, barter with them for services, even kill for them.

"In Chester Cheetah We Trust."


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## Whisper (Sep 26, 2013)

philistine said:


> I, and likely everyone else on this forum, are not entirely qualified to answer such a question with any great accuracy.



Speak for yourself. I'll have you know I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express the night before answering that questiong.


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## Greimour (Sep 27, 2013)

Speculation goes only so far.

The exact moment the planet disappeared would matter.

Using those 67 moons as an example, let's for argument sake say they all turn and started slowly heading toward the sun... thanks to a gravitation pull of a very small degree, the largest moon bends inward and resets its impact target for Earth... In that scenario, the planet disappeared when Jupiter was approx 630million km from Earth...

Now, would it be likely, in the smallest stretch of the idea, the exact same thing might happen when the planet is further away from earth... close to its furthest point of distance - so arppoximately 928million km...

In that second instance, perhaps the moons did not turn toward the sun at all, perhaps they followed some G-Force flow in the direction of Jupiters oribtal path and upon a larger bend of the orbit, they merely veered off onto a new orbit and never turned inward at all....


None of those examples are based on fact at all... not even a little bit (except for loosely the distance of Jupiter from Earth... those measurements are close to right, i think)

So... God took the planet... would it not be fair to say, that any scenario you want to happen is the likely result? Or rather, the scenario that God, in his infinite cosmic wisdom knew exactly what would happen and took it at that precise moment in time to achieve that very thing?


You can really do anything you want with it. Perhaps some mad scientist somewhere would run a simulation after reading your book and by pure chance you described the exact thing that would in fact happen... without even trying at all. 


Science and Thoery argue a lot, but fiction has need of neither and so befriends them both equally.


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