# How do I make a twist like this, make sense to the reader?



## ironpony (Jan 16, 2018)

For my story basically, a character who you think is good, and think is the main character's ally, turns out to be bad all along.

But when my friends read it, they were completely out to lunch and lost and cannot figure out why the ally was bad, or what was motivating her to do this the whole time.

I can understand the confusion. I'm writing a screenplay, and since it's a screenplay, I cannot really write what the characters are thinking and write their motives. All I can write is what the audience will see.

The fake ally villain has no real reason to tell the MC her motives, as she doesn't want the MC to know everything, and she has no reason to discuss her motives with anyone, since she's committing crimes and doesn't want anyone to know.

So if that's the case, how do you make the audience understand a twist, after it happens, since they cannot read her mind, and she has no reason to tell any of other characters?


----------



## Ultraroel (Jan 17, 2018)

In a screenplay you can be a bit more loose with the narrative. If you want her to be evil and to be explained, you can insert scenes during the play where she's doing questionable things, or write a scene where she is rewarded, or whatever fits, for her betrayal


----------



## bdcharles (Jan 17, 2018)

Use body language. Every time she tells a porker, have ler leg jog up and down nervously or something. Have her eyes dart off to the left. Make her over-promise and under-deliver. Have her change the subject, but subtly, so the MC falls for it.


----------



## Pete_C (Jan 17, 2018)

The world is filled with two-faced shits. They're everywhere, and probably anyone with any life experience will have encountered them. A good two-faced shit will be hard to detect, even for those who have fallen victim to such people before. A bad one will stand out like a sore thumb.

I think people will accept it, as long as it's plausible. When writing for the character, always have her duplicity in your mind. Don't write her as straight and then have her flip. Usually, with hindsight, people can see that they've been tricked. The skill is to create a character that comes across as straight but with hindsight is obviously not. You want viewers (in your case) to have that 'I should have seen it coming' moment. Get it wrong and they'll either not believe it or they'll see it coming way in advance and get bored.


----------



## ironpony (Jan 17, 2018)

Okay thanks.  I tried to write it with the duplicity in mind the whole time, but I can't figure out how to explain the WHY of why she did.  I can foreshadow things like WHO, WHERE, WHEN, etc, but can't figure out how to do it for the WHY?  How do I foreshadow a motive, so to speak?  Plus normally I don't like foreshadowing, cause then it gives the readers clues, and they are not as surprised as they could be later.

Like for example, in the movie Casino Royale

SPOILER FROM MOVIE

there is a character who you think is good, but then turns out to be bad.  I haven't read the book so I cannot comment on that.  However, for the movie, the audience still was able to buy that she was bad, without needing to know a reason.  As soon as she turns bad, they were like okay, awesome!.  How do I get that out of the reader, without needing an explanation as to WHY?


----------



## Birb (Jan 17, 2018)

well

you never want your story to be predictable, if your audience knows something is going to go down then there's no point in it being secretive. I believe, however, that your struggle is with why she did it (maybe I just am misreading?) If so, look at the character's past or what she's told the MC. Maybe an emotional moment between the two occurred where she hinted at a shitty past. She makes a comment about how she's tight for cash or is overly aggressive to a certain group of people?

Drop hints that the character isn't everything that she seems. Constantly has clothes disappear (possibly with bullet holes or bloodstains on them?) an unexplained accident that landed her in the hospital? 


Sorry, that's all I can really say without knowing the character


----------



## ironpony (Jan 17, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Most of my story is from the MC's point of view for the reader.  However, she has no reason to tell the MC anything that would relate to her crimes.  If she tells him any information, then it can be used as evidence, or it could leave a trail of bread crumbs, if the MC knows the why.

I don't think I can have her drop verbal hints, cause she is going to want to be as secretive as possible, and appear as innocent as she can.  Plus even if she does things like has clothes disappear, or unexplained accidents, that still doesn't explain the WHY, those are just WHO, WHAT, and WHERE, so I don't know if that would help.  The shitty past thing wouldn't be specific enough either.

Basically for the story a gang of criminals wants to recruit a new member.  In order for the new member to get in, he has to commit a crime for them and pass a test.  They bring the new member to a place where the woman character is tied to a chair and blindfolded.  The new recruit is given a handgun with a dummy round bullet (a round that will not fire), and in order to get in he has to kill the woman with the gun.  The gun won't fire, it's just a test.

The woman hostage is actually part of the gang and just posing as hostage.  The reason why, is because in case the new recruit turns out to be an undercover cop, and tries to bust them, they will not be guilty of kidnapping a woman and holding her hostage, because the woman is one of them and will not testify against them, that any crime happened.

During this test the new recruit gets cold feet, and can't do it.  He runs and the gang members chase after him into the streets.  A cop who is nearby (the MC), spots the chase, and intervenes.  The villains get away but the MC makes his way back to the building, and spots the woman tied in the chair.  He frees her and she pretends to be a kidnapped hostage, cause she doesn't want to say she is one of the men chasing the other guy, and doesn't want to admit to being part of a gang initiation test.  So she plays innocent.

Then later the reader finds out she is bad.  But since the reader was lead to believe she was an innocent kidnapped hostage, they do not know WHY she pretended to be... and she has no reason to tell anyone and wants to keep it secret.

So how do I drop the hint that, she may have been part of a gang recruitment test, in case the new recruit was an undercover officer who could have tried to bust them?


----------



## Birb (Jan 17, 2018)

just leave it at that then and have it explained afterward


----------



## ironpony (Jan 17, 2018)

But I'm not sure how to explain it afterward.  Since it's a screenplay, I can only write what the audience sees and she has no reason to tell any other characters, what's really going on.  Plus she has no reason to discuss with the gang that she was acting as a hostage.  The gang knows she was, so there is no reason for them to explain something, they already know about and would have already discussed.

This is where it gets tricky.  What I could do maybe is have a voice flashback to make the reader understand, like how the movie The Usual Suspects did it.  Here's the clip, but I have to spoil the ending to The Usual Suspects:


SPOILER


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OAFtr-ciQE

Like if I have a conversation with the woman and the gang boss, does in voice over, after she reveals herself to bad, would that work, or come off as cheesy or forced?


----------



## dale (Jan 17, 2018)

ironpony said:


> But when my friends read it, they were completely out to lunch and lost and cannot figure out why the ally was bad, or what was motivating her to do this the whole time.



Lol. Sorry. But the image of you and your friends out to lunch and reading your work struck me as funny. What kind of restaurant was it? I just want a clearer picture of the scene.


----------



## SueC (Jan 17, 2018)

What about an aside? Can't you stick in a moment where she steps to the side of the stage and talks a bit about her motives. She could go on about such and so, and sort of reveal her plans that way.

What you said - about your friends. There is nothing worse than the people you select to read your work not "getting" it.


----------



## ironpony (Jan 17, 2018)

Okay thanks, but what do you mean steps to the side of the stage?  It's a screenplay.  Who would she have motive to talk to about this?


----------



## Pete_C (Jan 18, 2018)

I think the bottom line is that this requires skill to deliver a subtlety that is only realised on the reveal! This is achieved by personality traits and behaviours that seem innocent at the time but with hindsight become obviously manipulative or false.

Do it well and your screenplay will sell. Do it badly and it won't.


----------



## SueC (Jan 18, 2018)

I guess this explains it better - "An *aside* is a dramatic device in which a character speaks to the audience. By convention the audience is to realize that the character's speech is unheard by the other characters on stage. It may be addressed to the audience expressly (in character or out) or represent an unspoken thought. An aside is usually a brief comment, rather than a speech, such as a monologue or soliloquy. Unlike a public announcement, it occurs within the context of the play. An aside is, by convention, a true statement of a character's thought; a character may be mistaken in an aside, but may not be dishonest."


----------



## ironpony (Jan 18, 2018)

Pete_C said:


> I think the bottom line is that this requires skill to deliver a subtlety that is only realised on the reveal! This is achieved by personality traits and behaviours that seem innocent at the time but with hindsight become obviously manipulative or false.
> 
> Do it well and your screenplay will sell. Do it badly and it won't.



But the thing is, is that hints to personality traits and behaviors do not explain enough of a reason for doing something like this.  There is a whole plot behind this that has to explain why she did it, and you cannot just explain a whole plot with some behavioral quirks.


----------



## Birb (Jan 18, 2018)

Honestly dude, if you can't figure this out with all of the suggestions you've been offered maybe it just isn't a good idea in the first place. Personally, if you go out of your way to explain it in great detail then the whole 'twist' kinda loses the whole.....twist. The event is supposed to be unexpected. The explanation as to how or why she did would be  found after the twist, and could be as  simple as when she betrays the mc she literally tells him.


----------



## ironpony (Jan 18, 2018)

Yeah that's what I was thinking, that the twist looses itself, if it needs a lot of explanation.  But she has no reason to tell the MC, because she doesn't want the MC to know what criminal activity she is into.  The MC could just that as evidence then, and she doesn't want that.  I just feel it's unrealistic for a criminal to confess the dirty laundry to the MC when she has no reason for him to know any of this.  So I have to find some way to make the reader understand without verbal confessions.

I mean sorry if I haven't been able to apply the suggestions, it's just even if she exhibits certain behavioral traits that might think she is dirty, she has to exhibit some sort of trait, that explains a whole subplot, involving other characters, without talking about it at all, cause she has no reason to talk about it, and give herself away.  So how does a character give hints at certain behavioral traits that would explain an entire subplot with other characters?

And she has no reason to tell the MC why she betrayed him.  Because if the MC knows the why, then he has evidence, and can piece the puzzle together, where as she would not want him to piece it together.  She would want to leave the MC clueless and not be able to figure things out.  So this is where it's tricky.

What if I did it like in the ending to the movie The Usual Suspects?  In that movie, after the detective character figures out the twist, they have voice over flashbacks to explain to the audience what's really going on.  Would that work, without loosing the whole twist?

I mean in The Usual Suspects, after the cop figures out the twist, it's not like the villain is going to walk back into his office and confess why he did it, and what's really going on.  So therefore, the audience has to be notified in a different way, right?


----------



## Ralph Rotten (Jan 18, 2018)

Maybe a double surprise-good guy betrays the MC so you think they're really bad. But when you find out their reasons you find out they really weren't bad after all, just couldn't let the hero do their thing because of some issue that only they knew about.


----------



## ironpony (Jan 18, 2018)

There is another character who the good guy finds out is bad also later on.  This character has enough knowledge to piece everything together I think without him coming off as psychic or way too clairvoyant or smart.

So he could possibly tell the good guy what's really going on.  However, the only time the good guy has to talk to this character about it, is after he's been shot and he's bleeding to death.  I think the character would be more concerned about getting medical attention, then to explain the whole conspiracy plot of what is going on.  He dies though from being shot, so he doesn't have time to get medical attention and live.

However, would he be so kind to explain everything before he dies, since he would be pre-occupied with trying to fight death.

And this doesn't happen till like 30 pages later, so the reader will still be thinking WTF on the first twist, until 30 pages later, till they would get an explanation for the first twist, in the second twist.

However, can the reader be thinking WTF and wait this long, scratching their heads, and would the guy actually bother to explain everything when he is trying to keep from dying?


----------



## Pete_C (Jan 19, 2018)

ironpony said:


> But the thing is, is that hints to personality traits and behaviors do not explain enough of a reason for doing something like this.  There is a whole plot behind this that has to explain why she did it, and you cannot just explain a whole plot with some behavioral quirks.



You might not want to hear this, but maybe you've bitten off more than you can chew if you feel like that.


----------



## topcol (Jan 19, 2018)

You can add stage directions indicating her reactions to something said by the 'hero', surreptitiously bites her nails or blinks rapidly several times, turns aside and smirks out of sight of the hero. You might also have her jot her feelings down in a diary, just one such incident should be enough to provide a clue or two as to her real intentions/sentiments.


----------



## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

Okay thanks.  That should help.  In order for the reader to still understand the why though, I still will have to explain the subplot to them somehow.  I was thinking maybe of having flashbacks to recap what happened, and that might help the audience.  Movies like The Usual Suspects and The Sixth Sense used flashbacks to explain the twist, after the twist was revealed, so do you think that is a good idea to explain a subplot?


----------



## Birb (Jan 19, 2018)

I would agree with the above, if you're struggling this much to find a reason for the character's betrayal.......then don't include it. We aren't the ones writing this, you are. If you can't figure this out having made the characters how could you expect us to?


----------



## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

Oh no, I have the reason.  The reason is there, I am just struggling how to explain the reason to the audience, since I'm keeping it secret, so the twist can be a surprise.


----------



## dale (Jan 20, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Oh no, I have the reason.  The reason is there, I am just struggling how to explain the reason to the audience, since I'm keeping it secret, so the twist can be a surprise.



Just tell your audience your the only asian restaurant in town that serves white rice with no seasoning. Then see if they can figure that one out. Then add a twist of lemon. I'm quite sure your audience will be completely flabbergasted.


----------



## ironpony (Mar 21, 2018)

Okay... thanks but that doesn't seem to apply to this.


----------



## Ralph Rotten (Mar 21, 2018)

If you have done your setup properly then you should be able to do a 'Usual Suspects' reveal, and have the hero's mind flash thru all of the clues that he had overlooked.
It's called an epiphany.


----------



## ironpony (Mar 21, 2018)

Okay thanks.  The thing is, is that I don't want to plant clues, because then the reader will see the twist coming, and the best way to surprise the reader is to not foreshadow anything at all.  So I thought it would be best to explain the 'why' after the surprise was revealed and not before.

Does the hero have to know the 'why'?  I mean what if I wrote it so that the hero is totally clueless of the 'why', but after I reveal the surprise, I then show flashbacks of the villains for the readers sake, so the reader knows what's going on?  Even though the hero doesn't know the why he still knows he has an enemy to fight, even though he is clueless as to why that enemy did what they did.  So is that okay?

Would flashbacks be the way to go?  The Usual Suspect has voice over flashbacks after the twist is revealed. Then if I have flashbacks to explain it, the reader will know the why, even though the hero doesn't.


----------



## Anita M Shaw (Mar 21, 2018)

She has an identifying tattoo on her left shoulder? Or wherever? Never wears anything to show it off, but then one day . . .


----------



## Sir-KP (Mar 21, 2018)

I recommend you to watch Carlito's Way. I think they did what you want to do here.

Carlito's lawyer friend, David, was basically a snitch all the time. His character was getting worse as the movie goes, bringing trouble and conflict between him and Carlito (though not in face to face fighting scene). Later on Carlito discovered David has been selling him out to the FBI, the antagonist that has been shadowing Carlito. This was brought up in a flashback scene through a voice record.

That is the twist. The FBI turned out that they have been trying to take down David and help Carlito as the natural result of succeeding it. Later on, Carlito went to meet face to face with David and David laid it all out (confession scene). Then followed by another twist that beyond his anger and disappointment, Carlito left David alive, letting third party to kill him.


----------



## ironpony (Mar 22, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Basically it's hard for me to provide clues cause the woman's motive in my story is pretty much a whole subplot that is unknown to the protagonist.  If it was known to him, than the protagonist would see her betrayal coming, as well as the reader most likely.

So I have to keep a whole subplot secret, and she has no reason to tell anyone and confess everything.  Plus as far as clues go, I cannot express a whole subplot through something like a tattoo, or anything like that.  So I might have to use flashbacks or something.  But if I do, the hero will still not know the 'why', even though the reader would from the flashbacks.  Is that okay?

Is it okay if the hero doesn't know the 'why', and all he has to know that he has to stop it?


----------



## Jay Greenstein (Mar 22, 2018)

> But when my friends read it, they were completely out to lunch and lost  and cannot figure out why the ally was bad, or what was motivating her  to do this the whole time.


Goodness... You've been posting here for years. And you often talk about your friends reading and reacting to this or that piece of writing. But in all your time here, and all the questions you've asked and gotten people to respond to, you've posted not a word. Aren't we your friends? Don't you, and the people who respond to your endless questions share a love of writing—something your "friends" don't share?

If, after all this time, you don't see us as friends to share your writing with; if you think enough those who respond, as you to ask for advice over and over, why do you not think enough of them to let them respond to the actual prose?


----------



## Sir-KP (Mar 22, 2018)

ironpony said:


> So I have to keep a whole subplot secret, and she has no reason to tell anyone and confess everything.  Plus as far as clues go, I cannot express a whole subplot through something like a tattoo, or anything like that.  So I might have to use flashbacks or something.  But if I do, the hero will still not know the 'why', even though the reader would from the flashbacks.  Is that okay?
> 
> Is it okay if the hero doesn't know the 'why', and all he has to know that he has to stop it?



Well, I think it's alright... I guess. I'm not a pro writer myself, but I'm placing myself as your reader and now I'm imagining your protagonist in that _"OMGWTF Whyyyy???!!!" _moment where he/she doesn't know what's exactly going but realizes that it's better to save him/herself for that situation.

And then after the whole matter has been solved, you can either:
1. Leave the protagonist clueless and leave with your antagonist's problem up to your reader to interpret themselves,
or 2. Leave the protagonist clueless in the story, but write the antagonist's problem separately through, again, flashback/confession, third person character such as investigator/police, antagonist's friends, and so on.


----------



## Jack of all trades (Mar 22, 2018)

Jay Greenstein said:


> Goodness... You've been posting here for years. And you often talk about your friends reading and reacting to this or that piece of writing. But in all your time here, and all the questions you've asked and gotten people to respond to, you've posted not a word. Aren't we your friends? Don't you, and the people who respond to your endless questions share a love of writing—something your "friends" don't share?
> 
> If, after all this time, you don't see us as friends to share your writing with; if you think enough those who respond, as you to ask for advice over and over, why do you not think enough of them to let them respond to the actual prose?



We're faceless bots, sock puppets, arrogant jerks, fools, and helpful people in a false reality.


----------



## Jack of all trades (Mar 22, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  Basically it's hard for me to provide clues cause the woman's motive in my story is pretty much a whole subplot that is unknown to the protagonist.  If it was known to him, than the protagonist would see her betrayal coming, as well as the reader most likely.
> 
> So I have to keep a whole subplot secret, and she has no reason to tell anyone and confess everything.  Plus as far as clues go, I cannot express a whole subplot through something like a tattoo, or anything like that.  So I might have to use flashbacks or something.  But if I do, the hero will still not know the 'why', even though the reader would from the flashbacks.  Is that okay?
> 
> Is it okay if the hero doesn't know the 'why', and all he has to know that he has to stop it?



In real life, there are times one doesn't know the why, but have to do something anyway.

Why did a drunk get in a car and drive instead of having a sober driver do the driving, and kill a family?

Why does a man who is divorced attack his ex?

Why does someone steal or rob?

Does it matter? Not to those who were pulled into the drama. They just have to deal with it.


----------



## ironpony (Mar 23, 2018)

Jay Greenstein said:


> Goodness... You've been posting here for years. And you often talk about your friends reading and reacting to this or that piece of writing. But in all your time here, and all the questions you've asked and gotten people to respond to, you've posted not a word. Aren't we your friends? Don't you, and the people who respond to your endless questions share a love of writing—something your "friends" don't share?
> 
> If, after all this time, you don't see us as friends to share your writing with; if you think enough those who respond, as you to ask for advice over and over, why do you not think enough of them to let them respond to the actual prose?



Sorry, of course you are my friends too, I just meant people I knew in person more so, sorry.  I feel worried about posting my work online cause they always say to keep the story as secret as possible before you sell it and all, so no one copies it, etc.

Another thing is, is that I can't post the whole thing cause there are also plot gaps I need to fill otherwise, it won't make sense to read it, and be able to put all the pieces together yet, I don't think, where as with people I know, it's easier to fill in the gaps in a sit down conversation.



Jack of all trades said:


> In real life, there are times one doesn't know the why, but have to do something anyway.
> 
> Why did a drunk get in a car and drive instead of having a sober driver do the driving, and kill a family?
> 
> ...



Yeah I could write it that way so he doesn't know but the reader still does.  I don't know if I should write so that the reader has to figure out the motive for themselves, cause every time I leave things up to the reader to figure out, they never do, and I always have to explain it.  Is that bad?

Another way the main character can find out the truth about the 'why', is there is another character the main character comes into contact about a quarter to a third later into the story.  This character has been shot and the main character comes to his aid, and the shot character, just before he dies, reveals some information to the main character, that helps the main character achieve the goal and win in the end.

The character who's been shot can tell the main character the 'why', since he knows it.  However, there may be two problems with this:

1.  Would he go into a whole detailed explanation of the 'why' before he dies, since he has been shot and is probably full concentrating on not dying, and wanting medical attention, ASAP.

2.  Would the reader be okay with waiting about a third more into the story for an explanation to the 'why' and left clueless the whole time until then?

If this is a problem perhaps a flashback recap earlier on, right after the twist is revealed is better?


----------



## Annoying kid (Mar 23, 2018)

1) Nobody cares about stealing a half finished extract from a script.

2) If you aren't going to give the forum the same materials that your friends have to work with when forming critique, then DO NOT mention said friends here again. Their views are irrelevant. *Do not* use them to counter what posters on here are saying, because we are seeing *too completely different levels of content. What are we supposed to say to stuff like this? 

*


> But when my friends read it, they were completely out to lunch and lost and cannot figure out why the ally was bad, or what was motivating her to do this the whole time.



We don't know them, or what they have seen, so obviously cannot speak to what they have seen, so don't waste your time, and ours in mentioning them.

A critique made by someone who has seen the work overrides the critique of someone who has not seen it. So you need to go and ask why they didn't understand it. They being your friends.


----------



## Jack of all trades (Mar 23, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Sorry, of course you are my friends too, I just meant people I knew in person more so, sorry.  I feel worried about posting my work online cause they always say to keep the story as secret as possible before you sell it and all, so no one copies it, etc.
> 
> Another thing is, is that I can't post the whole thing cause there are also plot gaps I need to fill otherwise, it won't make sense to read it, and be able to put all the pieces together yet, I don't think, where as with people I know, it's easier to fill in the gaps in a sit down conversation.
> 
> ...



Dying people generally take the time to tell important info in shows and movies. So that would probably be alrigh. t


----------



## Jay Greenstein (Mar 23, 2018)

> I feel worried about posting my work online cause they always say to  keep the story as secret as possible before you sell it and all, so no  one copies it, etc.


They do? Who? No actual writer would advise against posting a few hundred words to get a reaction. None. What are you afraid of? That someone who reads a page or three will steal your story? In more than two years you've still not decided on what it is, and are still asking about this or that plot point.

The idea that someone would want to copy three pages of the unsold work of someone who has not demonstrated the ability to sell, is ludicrous. Ideas are easy. Writing well enough to make the reader _want_ to turn the pages is what's hard.

Even were youto post the entire story, in rough form, stealing it would be a waste of time. Why? Because were some amateur to copy, submit, and sell it, they wouldn't have the skill needed to edit it in your voice, or on a professional level, so the theft would gain them nothing. And quite frankly, if, after years of talking about writing on sites like this, you don't know this, you're a _lot_ farther from publication than you might hope.

So again, If you think of the people here who have so kindly responded to your questions over the years as friends, why not show them the result of all their kindness and post a few hundred words?


----------



## Sir-KP (Mar 24, 2018)

ironpony said:


> I feel worried about posting my work online cause they always say to keep the story as secret as possible before you sell it and all, so no one copies it, etc.



I understand the sentiment though. I'm keeping mind as secret as possible. But let's just realize that there have been hundreds of thousands stories out there and ours aren't anywhere completely original. We are inspired from left and right. By the time your story is published, your reader probably will be reminded of some stories they have read before.

Best thing you can do if you're really paranoid is, like others have said, post a part of it, change things like the names into generic ones, and rephrase that part of the story so us here still can read your sample and give you suggestions without reading the excerpt that you mean to keep secret of.


----------



## ironpony (Mar 25, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Well I haven't written how the 'why' is revealed to the reader yet, so I would have to write this part first before showing it on here.

However, it's difficult to post things on here, cause I was told not to post attachments onto this site, and if I copy and paste parts of the screenplay directly, it looses format.


----------



## Lordress of Words (Mar 26, 2018)

I like the aspect of using body language, if even slight. The smallest things sometime paint the biggest pictures. Her facial features can even change slightly once the other turns her back. Best of luck on whatever you choose!


----------



## ironpony (Mar 26, 2018)

Okay thanks, but I thought that facial expressions or body language doesn't really explain a motive though.


----------

