# [Insert pithy lede here]



## old.bull.lee (Jul 15, 2017)

Hello

I suppose I should tell you a bit about myself. I'm journalist living in central Canada and working for a fairly large daily newspaper. When I'm not busy punching out copy on ever tightening deadlines during the day, I'm usually at home in the evenings reading and writing. Every now and then I manage to string together some prose I think is not half-bad, but for the most part recognize I have a long way to go to get my creative writing from where it is to where I'd like it to be. 

My focus was on fiction when younger and I have a novel laying around here somewhere. It was written for the desk drawer and I've never sent it out. These days I tend to focus mostly on non-fiction: essays I pitch to magazines with varying degrees of success and memoir which I mostly write to help myself work through things that feel unresolved. In the off-chance I ever catch a publisher on a bad day who decides to accept my work, I will most likely be posting in the workshop area to retain first publishing rights.

I suppose that's it for me. I look forward to having my work critiqued, and - where I can - sharing a helpful word or thought with others about their own art. I look forward to seeing you around the forum. 

- old.bull.lee


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## H.Brown (Jul 15, 2017)

Hello and welcome to WF.  Liking the username Old Bull Lee 

So yes you guessed it here comes the boring spiel; once you have met our anti-spammer deterrent of ten valid post...What are these you ask? Well hey are any posts made in the forums apart from the lounge area. Once you level up to a full member after your tenth post then more of WF will open up to you. Things like the groups and challenges will be visible for you to explore and maybe join. You will also be able to share with us any writing that you wish to for us to critique. Check out the prose or poetry forums to add your own critiques which I believe you may have already found. 

Also if your ever in doubt then give one of us in purple a shout as we are mentors.

I look forward to seeing you around the forums.


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## old.bull.lee (Jul 15, 2017)

Thank you for the welcome H.Brown. I appreciate the explanation regarding restrictions on my account until I reach 10 posts. I hadn't noticed that yet, but am sure I would have soon and it saves me from having to look up the FAQ.


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## PiP (Jul 15, 2017)

Hello, old.bull.lee I'm from the wilds of sunny Portugal! I send greetings and a warm welcome to WF and our creative community. I am sure you will find us a supportive group so hopefully you will stick around, drink coffee, wine, beer or whatever, so we can get to know you a little better. 

Any questions please feel free to ask 



> I suppose I should tell you a bit about myself. I'm journalist living in central Canada and working for a fairly large daily newspaper.



What type of stories do you cover? 

If you had to choose a genre (to write or read) for fiction what would it be and why?


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## old.bull.lee (Jul 15, 2017)

PiP said:


> What type of stories do you cover?



I work the general city news beat, so it varies quite a lot. On any given day I could be down at police headquarters for press conferences and writing copy on crime, or down at city hall covering council, or covering protests or looking out for human interest stories. Be it with my current newspaper, or with another in a large city, I hope to become a full-time crime or politics reporter at some point. 

In my spare time I write op-eds and columns which I pitch to various Canadian publications, which is also a journalistic passion of mine. 

I genuinely feel being a journalist is the best job in the world. I love learning about new things every day, digging for stories and getting paid to write. I consider myself very fortunate to do something I love for a living. 



> If you had to choose a genre (to write or read) for fiction what would it be and why?



I'm not sure what my favourite genre to read is, nor do I think I could choose a favorite author. It's changed a lot throughout my life. As a young teen I was a total Hemingway nerd and devoured everything of his I could get my hands on. I'd never seen writing so stripped down yet beautiful before. In my later teen years I got really into stream of consciousness writing, so I spent a great deal of time reading folks like William Burroughs, James Joyce, Virginia Woolf, and also got interested in the work of Hunter Thompson. 

Lately I've been reading lots of memoirs or non-fiction novels, which is probably closest to what I write in my spare time for pure enjoyment. The last writer who really blew me away was Karl Ove Knausgaard - I've read the first two books of his "my struggle" series and found them quite impressive. I also picked up a used copy of Cormac McCarthy's The Road not long ago and upon closing the book was keenly aware of the fact I'd just read the work of a prose master and would never be able to ever produce something of that quality.


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## sas (Jul 15, 2017)

Welcome.

I am not familiar with Knausgaard. As Hitler's book, Mein Kamph, is translated to English as My Struggle, is there a correlation? Just curious.


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## old.bull.lee (Jul 15, 2017)

sas said:


> Welcome.
> 
> I am not familiar with Knausgaard. As Hitler's book, Mein Kamph, is translated to English as My Struggle, is there a correlation? Just curious.



No connection, but it has stirred up a fair amount of controversy. Many people have criticized him for his choice of title - which I get, but isn't a deal breaker for me. 

Knausgaard, to me, seems to be some sort of social-democrat politically. I believe he chose the title my struggle because that's essentially what the books are about: him dealing with the death of his abusive father, the failure of a marriage, life as a father, attempting to succeed as a writer, etc.


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## JustRob (Jul 16, 2017)

Hi there. Apart from the workshops, if you want to find beta readers for your more complete works then we have a Beta Readers forum where you can make connections with other members for that purpose. Beta reading takes place behind the scenes outside of the forums by passing the work directly to chosen individuals, so there are no publishing implications. If you have any questions about this subject I'm the mentor currently assigned to deal with them. In fact I'm more an information technologist than a writer, so the technical side of the communication of information was a large part of my working life. 

Apart from writers, we are always seeking people with the time to read our work, as writers are often too involved in their own work to do that for others. Consequently you may also like to consider adding your name to the list of beta readers offering to read longer works in that forum. My angel wife and I both read full works by members and they can be enormously varied in both quality and content. Some are highly entertaining and we encourage those writers to take their work more seriously with a view to publication. One of the problems, with which I am well acquainted, for new writers is assessing one's own potential in the field and impartial beta readers are a great help in this. The skill is in making comments purely as a reader without trying to influence the writer's own style too much. Advice on writing is a somewhat different subject.

Meantime, you seem to be a potential all round asset for the community, so please pitch in and get to know us. Welcome.


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## sas (Jul 16, 2017)

Should we address you as, Old Bull?  I'm at a loss, but smiling.

Thanks for answer regarding book title. My Struggle doesn't seem an original title, and not because of Hitler, but because all could title autobiographies that way. Even a new born has struggled.  Smiles.  sas


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## JustRob (Jul 16, 2017)

sas said:


> Should we address you as, Old Bull? I'm at a loss, but smiling.



O. B., one can be Lee, perhaps, or is there too much force behind that name?


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## old.bull.lee (Jul 16, 2017)

JustRob said:


> Hi there. Apart from the workshops, if you want to find beta readers for your more complete works then we have a Beta Readers forum where you can make connections with other members for that purpose. Beta reading takes place behind the scenes outside of the forums by passing the work directly to chosen individuals, so there are no publishing implications. If you have any questions about this subject I'm the mentor currently assigned to deal with them. In fact I'm more an information technologist than a writer, so the technical side of the communication of information was a large part of my working life.
> 
> Apart from writers, we are always seeking people with the time to read our work, as writers are often too involved in their own work to do that for others. Consequently you may also like to consider adding your name to the list of beta readers offering to read longer works in that forum. My angel wife and I both read full works by members and they can be enormously varied in both quality and content. Some are highly entertaining and we encourage those writers to take their work more seriously with a view to publication. One of the problems, with which I am well acquainted, for new writers is assessing one's own potential in the field and impartial beta readers are a great help in this. The skill is in making comments purely as a reader without trying to influence the writer's own style too much. Advice on writing is a somewhat different subject.



That's actually a really great idea. I was a member of a writers forum when I was a bit younger (which is now fairly inactive) and they didn't have anything set up like that. I'll definitely look into the beta readers forum - seems like such a great way to get feedback from someone who's opinion/writing you respect.

As for adding my name to the list of beta readers, that would depend on what kind of work is being done. Given my background in journalism I'm be more than pleased to read anyone's jounralistic copy. I'm not an editor, but do have experience copy editing and as a writer can certainly help trim the fat on prose. I noticed the journalism subforum here is fairly inactive though, so I'm not sure if there are many people looking for help with that kind of work. 

As for fiction/non-fiction, I'm afraid I'm not sure I'm confident enough in my abilities to feel I'm qualified for offering much critique/advice/suggestions when it comes to that style of writing.



JustRob said:


> Meantime, you seem to be a potential all round asset for the community, so please pitch in and get to know us. Welcome.



Thank you. I appreciate the warm welcome and think I'll enjoy my time here. Seems like a good online community. 



sas said:


> Should we address you as, Old Bull? I'm at a loss, but smiling.



You can address me as any variation of Old Bull Lee you like. Old Bull, Lee, OBL, OB, I'm not picky.



sas said:


> Thanks for answer regarding book title. My Struggle doesn't seem an original title, and not because of Hitler, but because all could title autobiographies that way. Even a new born has struggled. Smiles. sas



I suppose you're right it's not the most original title of the book. I suppose it can't be discounted that he may have known the controversy of naming his book series the same as Hitler's political tract may be good for sales. 

The approach of the series though, is unlike anything I've ever read before however. Many critics compare him to Proust, but as I've never read in search of lost time I couldn't say whether or not that's true. As for Knausgard himself, he downplays the connection. 

I also came across this today in relation to the title and thought you might find it of interest:
_
"He wrote mainly to break his block with the other novel and thought that there would not be an audience for the work. Knausgård would call his friend and fellow writer Geir Angell Øygarden daily and read the work aloud. Angell Øygarden felt that Knausgård needed encouragement to continue, and Knausgård felt that Angell Øygarden was essential to the project. Angell Øygarden eventually listened to 5,000 pages of the novel and proposed the series title, which he felt was perfect. The novel's Norwegian title, Min Kamp, is very similar to Hitler's Mein Kampf. The book's editor, Geir Gulliksen, originally forbade Knausgård from using the title, but later changed his mind. Knausgård's British publisher at the time was not interested in the book, and Knausgård did not protest the German translation publisher's decision to change the title in that region."_


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## sas (Jul 16, 2017)

Well,
Lee is my middle name; Bull is my daughter's married name; Old is what I am.


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## bryanvincent (Jul 17, 2017)

Hey there! Nice to see that you already seem to be settling in nicely, but wanted to say welcome to the forum myself! It's nice to know there's another journalist around (I just graduated with a journalism degree and was the editor-in-chief of my university newspaper). 

It's really great that you're ready and willing to share some of your stuff and I look forward to seeing some samples from you. One of my undergrad professors, though she might be a little biased because she herself is a journalist author, always said that she felt journalists make some of the best novelists because of the years of interviewing and how it helps with both descriptive details and creating naturally flowing dialogue. 

Well, anyways, welcome once again and I hope you continue to enjoy yourself here!


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