# Rebirth



## ArtBlinked (Mar 13, 2017)

*Rebirth (Explained)*

Edit: I've included a translated version below the main poem.

Haven't made a poem since high school so I  have no idea what I'm doing.  

But I felt inspired, perhaps my inspiration can serve as entertainment for some and provoke thought for others. 

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Familair to all,
Struggle and strife,
Familair to some,
The secret to life.

To those who choose,
To those who resist,
To those who remember,
Life's great gift.

Emotions come,
Emotions go,
To rise above,
Today's great love.

Always choices,
Always pain,
Until you turn,
To one who reigns.

If it's yourself,
If it's another,
Time will tell,
On what you dwell. 

We humans have needs,
Secrets to please,
But no answers beyond that of our deeds. 

Dare the heavens,
Dare the earth,
Dare yourself,
To find rebirth.

---Rebirth (Explained)

Familiar to all,
Struggle and strife,
(Everyone knows pain and suffering. This is a set up for how to get past life's pain.)
Familiar to some,
The secret to life.
(This is a hint at what the poem is all about. Not just the life we know but the one we may not. Only some may know, many are called but few are chosen. Everlasting life. This is realized at the end.)


To those who choose,
(Choose what is right)
To those who resist,
(Resist temptations)
To those who remember,
(Remember and remain faithful through passage of time.)
Life's great gift.
(Salvation. Choose right, resist temptation, and remember your convictions. The last part from first stanza is explained here. Secret to eternal life is Christ's sacrifice.)


Emotions come,
Emotions go,
To rise above,
Today's great love.
(This references temptations from the part above. Emotions are fickle, come and go, better to live according to your convictions than abandon them for things that don't last. Rise above temptations.)


Always choices,
Always pain,
(life always has choices and choices have consequences. This ties into next part.)
Until you turn,
To one who reigns.
(Speaks of who reigns in someone's life. Who do they turn to in times of pain.)


If it's yourself,
If it's another,
Time will tell,
On what you dwell. 
(What you turn to in times of strife, whether it's yourself or someone else will ultimately determine who you are. Community shapes who we are and creates how we think. What you dwell on effects everything you do and say.)


We humans have needs,
Secrets to please,
But no answers beyond that of our deeds. 
(Reinforces the previous two stanzas. This is a comment on humanity and our tendencies  to seek whatever pleases the desires of the moment. The last part comments on existence itself. No answers beyond that of our deeds comments on how the natural world cannot give origins/answers for itself and it's existence. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. If matter cannot create itself it cannot explain itself.) 


Dare the heavens,
(Heavens go with the theme here and represent God)
Dare the earth,
(Luke 19:4 "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." Only people who know scripture will get this one.)
Dare yourself,
(A call to action to search)
To find rebirth.
(Pulls it all together from stanza one. Rebirth, new life, salvation. The poem was a comment on how to get there, stay there, and what it means to be there.)

Hopefully this explains my word choice. Everything was carefully thought through and every rhyme has purpose. But I understand I have much to learn in the art of communication so I wanted to put the interpreted version up here in case people wanted to see the intended thinkings behind the poem.


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## Darkkin (Mar 13, 2017)

ArtBlinked said:


> ---------
> 
> Familair to all   What is familiar to all?  And check the spelling on familiar...  Also, why all the capitals and commas? Grammatically, you do not need them.  Yes, it might look nice, but given what they imply, it shatters the flow of any piece.  It is akin to trying to read in a car with a driver who has never driven a manual transmission.  Stop...Go...Stop...Go.
> Struggle and strife,
> ...




Visually it looks very nice, but you really don't seem to go anywhere with the message.  There is too much repetition and really no depth or imagery to speak of.  Rhyme scheme is also a bit of an issue.  It is neither true, nor consistent.  It doesn't lend anything to the message, more to the point it distracts the reader.  More than half of your content is a repetition scheme.  Poetry is not a medium where one can afford to waste words.  Make them count.  

You say this piece is about inspiring others.  As a reader, I will be blunt, how?  Content is amibigous.  Neither good nor bad.  As a reader, it feels inert.  No power, no fire.  No clear tone.  Imagery is null and void.  There really is nothing for the reader to empathize with, no stepping stones to push off of.  Decide what it is you want to say and bring your voice into play.  Avoid lumping numerous poetical devices into stanzas.  Rhyme schemes like punctuation need to be consistent.  Either use them properly or leave it off.  Consider what it is about poetry that speaks to you?  And also think about what it is you as a writer, would like the reader to take away from this piece.

If you have a point delineate it.   At this point you are working with a concept.  Take this back to the drawing board and strip it down.  Remove the filler and the poetc devices of rhyme scheme and repetition.  Look at what remains.  Is your meaning clear?  These are questions you need to ask.  If the message isn't clear to you it won't be clear to the reader.

While poetry is different than prose they still have much in common, namely the fact that your content needs to support your message and move the reader forward.

If you really want to inspire and spark imagination, you need to bring your voice into play.  We want to hear you...What your thoughts and ideas are.  Those matter.  A poem, shouldn't leave the reader feeling as if they have just been given a Mad Lib to fill in.  I know there are many readers who like the ambiguous poems, but being a very literal reader, I fail in being able to appreciate the concept.

And when the idea of rebirth is taken into consideration, it covers everything from a phoenix rising from the ashes to a sinner redeemed by grace.  There is so much that can be done with the concept, so many allegories and venues.  The possibilities are endless.  Illustrate the one that really speaks to you.

- D. the T.


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## ArtBlinked (Mar 13, 2017)

> I will be blunt, how?  Content is amibigous.  Neither good nor bad.  As a reader, it feels inert.  No power, no fire.  No clear tone.  Imagery is null and void.  There really is nothing for the reader to empathize with, no stepping stones to push off of.   I know there are many readers who like the ambiguous poems, but being a very literal reader, I fail in being able to appreciate the concept.



Ah, I'd like to thank you for showing me something regarding my audience. I had someone else read it beforehand and they completely understood the meaning behind my word choice. It's simple, but every word has a point and leads to a concept and belief not everyone can see. The content is not ambiguous to all.   

But thank you for telling me about the grammer errors. It's been years since I've done anything in poetry and I don't pretend to know much. I enjoy poetry that alludes to the existential rather than evoking emotion. Novels I like for the latter  

Thanks for your critique!


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## Darkkin (Mar 13, 2017)

ArtBlinked said:


> . I enjoy poetry that alludes to the existential rather than evoking emotion.



Therein lies the crux of the matter.  Emotion is where the power of poetry resides, without it there is not much for a reader to connect with.  Empathy matters. It is akin to urchin barrens on the edge of a kelp forest...Two vastly different worlds.

So to each there own.

- D. the T.


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## jenthepen (Mar 14, 2017)

I could understand the message in your poem and the way you build your case for the need to have more in life than simple sense gratification. Although I do appreciate poems with a philosophical axe to grind, I think a little imagery and emotion would strengthen your message and make it easier for the reader to relate it to their own life.

Incidentally, maybe you should capitalize the first letter of One in this sentence:  _To one who reigns. ?

_As the first poem since high school, I think it's a pretty creditable effort. Well done! :encouragement: I hope you'll keep going with the poetry and, if you decide you'd like to brush up your skills, why not try the Purple Pip Challenge - together with the Young Poets Society (nothing to do with age btw) it's a wonderful place to find advice and guidance as you write. You'll find a link in my signature at the bottom of this post.

Anyway, it's good to see you in the poetry forum and I look forward to seeing more from you.

jen

Ooops, I don't think the link works. Check the forums to find the Purple Pip and send me a pm if you have any problems.


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## ArtBlinked (Mar 14, 2017)

jenthepen said:


> I could understand the message in your poem and the way you build your case for the need to have more in life than simple sense gratification. Although I do appreciate poems with a philosophical axe to grind, I think a little imagery and emotion would strengthen your message and make it easier for the reader to relate it to their own life.
> 
> Incidentally, maybe you should capitalize the first letter of One in this sentence:  _To one who reigns. ?
> 
> ...



Hi Jen, thank you for the reply. I will definitely check out that Purple Pip Challenge, it sounds like fun. Although I'm still not completely sure poetry is quite my thing. I favor novel writing. My interest in poetry sparked completely because of all the poets here at WF. Which is probably why my poem sounds like a distorted hallmark card.

And I agree about the imagery. It's just out of everything I've read over the last few days, I found I love poems that resonate with a belief or life truth I've come to realize for myself. It reminds me I'm not alone and encourages me. It means so much more to me than simply evoking emotion. Although I understand for some people, emotion is everything. 

I think my goal in poetry would be to do both. Because I cannot write simply for emotion. But if creating emotion can better communicate what I wish, then it's what I want. 

I thought about capitolizing the O in 'one' but I was unsure since the next part goes on to ask who the reader looks to as their guide in life. Themselves? Others? With the (somewhat) obvious third choice being God. I know I would capitolize if I was directly referring to Him in place of a name but would I still in this situation?


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## dannyboy (Mar 14, 2017)

Hi ArtBlinked - Just on the novel writing v poetry - I use my poetry to inform my prose writing, develop metaphor, symbolism, rhythm etc - I even use poetric series to help develop a possible narrative or to develop character - feedback here is invaluable.

Good luck,

Danny


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## ArtBlinked (Mar 14, 2017)

dannyboy said:


> Hi ArtBlinked - Just on the novel writing v poetry - I use my poetry to inform my prose writing, develop metaphor, symbolism, rhythm etc - I even use poetric series to help develop a possible narrative or to develop character - feedback here is invaluable.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Danny



Hi Danny, thanks for the post. What you describe sounds great, could you go into a little more detail? If I could have poetry strengthen or create ideas for the foundations of my larger stories that would be very helpful.


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## dannyboy (Mar 15, 2017)

an example, some time ago on this forum I wrote a series of Pinocchio poems that explored the essential existential nature of that story - the poems helped me work through the imagery and the voices of both Pinocchio and Geppetto and they also helped me move away from the well defined narrative into something that followed that path but in a much more symbolic way. In the end the poems became the backbone for the novel - published first as The Unnerving, Unrelenting Life of Pinocchio and then in a republished version as  The Woodcarver's Son


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## jenthepen (Mar 15, 2017)

ArtBlinked said:


> Hi Jen, thank you for the reply. I will definitely check out that Purple Pip Challenge, it sounds like fun. Although I'm still not completely sure poetry is quite my thing. I favor novel writing. My interest in poetry sparked completely because of all the poets here at WF. Which is probably why my poem sounds like a distorted hallmark card.
> 
> And I agree about the imagery. It's just out of everything I've read over the last few days, I found I love poems that resonate with a belief or life truth I've come to realize for myself. It reminds me I'm not alone and encourages me. It means so much more to me than simply evoking emotion. Although I understand for some people, emotion is everything.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the in-depth reply, ArtBlinked - and your poem was absolutely nothing like a hallmark card! 

I love the way you picked up on the way poetry can enhance and inform prose writing (Danny summed it up.) I honestly think all the best prose has an element of 'poetic' phrasing.

Like you, I enjoy writing about deep truths that I discover, either through philosophy or science and I've come to discover that poetry works really well for these ideas which may be because I experience a real emotional kick when some fact or other resonates with my mind and poetry seems to give me permission to indulge that reaction.

Thanks for explaining your thinking about the one/One. You've thought it through much more thoroughly than I did and now I agree with you, a lower case O seems more appropriate.

I hope you do check out the Purple Pip. I think it would help you as you discover your poetic ability and I also think you would be an asset to the challenge. If you do want to try it out, join the Young Poets Society to get all the background info. Just click on Groups in the bar at the top of the main page and you'll find all the groups listed.


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## ArtBlinked (Mar 15, 2017)

dannyboy said:


> an example, some time ago on this forum I wrote a series of Pinocchio poems that explored the essential existential nature of that story - the poems helped me work through the imagery and the voices of both Pinocchio and Geppetto and they also helped me move away from the well defined narrative into something that followed that path but in a much more symbolic way. In the end the poems became the backbone for the novel - published first as The Unnerving, Unrelenting Life of Pinocchio and then in a republished version as  The Woodcarver's Son



I'm so used to developing and discovering a character through rp with others but this sounds like an excellent way to do that on my own. I think it might help me with plot creation as well, along with perhaps forming a more defined lesson to be learned (I've found that to be the most difficult part) that flows and pulls everything together into one cohesive piece. 

Thanks for the direction


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## ArtBlinked (Mar 15, 2017)

jenthepen said:


> Like you, I enjoy writing about deep truths that I discover, either through philosophy or science and I've come to discover that poetry works really well for these ideas which may be because I experience a real emotional kick when some fact or other resonates with my mind and poetry seems to give me permission to indulge that reaction.



Yes, this is exactly what I mean. And why I love poetry for it, because it's so short and sweet. It seems perfect for getting a message across. It may not convince everyone but it will resonate with those it can and I spread the understanding and feeling of community I myself love. 

And I know it can be irritating for some when they come across something they disagree with but eh, that's part of life. Art is communication and like painting, communication is messy. But when done well it's beautiful. I'm happy to see I'm welcome here, even as a messy word painter.



> Thanks for explaining your thinking about the one/One. You've thought it through much more thoroughly than I did and now I agree with you, a lower case O seems more appropriate.



I hope it's alright, but I'm going to edit my main post to include the meaning behind my word choice. If they understand, it might help people give more feedback in helping me communicate my message. 



> I hope you do check out the Purple Pip. I think it would help you as you discover your poetic ability and I also think you would be an asset to the challenge. If you do want to try it out, join the Young Poets Society to get all the background info. Just click on Groups in the bar at the top of the main page and you'll find all the groups listed.


I'll do that right after the edit. I'm happy to hear you would consider me an asset to the challenge! -Thank you


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## Firemajic (Mar 16, 2017)

ArtBlinked said:


> Edit: I've included a translated version below the main poem.
> 
> Haven't made a poem since high school so I  have no idea what I'm doing.
> 
> ...




I agree with DarKKin... completely... this poem is so vague, bland and obscure that I feel cheated... if I was in emotional/ spiritual turmoil, and I came to you for comfort... and you offered ME these words as comfort... I would feel like the guy in the Bible who asked for bread... and was given a stone.... Seriously...
 Now, having said that... I will admit that this is not my kind of poetry... I prefer to read poetry that is personal, based on the poet's personal thoughts, experiences and emotions...
You did not give your reader any clear, concise beliefs or truths... However, the words are very pretty and poetic in a vague soothing way... These are my personal thoughts and were meant to help you see your poem through a different filter... I would love for you to bring your reader into your personal poetic space... be intimate, and stop hiding behind vagueness... I hope this helps... Welcome to the poetry thread...


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## Darkkin (Mar 16, 2017)

ArtBlinked said:


> ---Rebirth (Explained)
> 
> Familiar to all,
> Struggle and strife,
> ...




Consider this from a reader's standpoint.  If you see a poem with an author's note:  Read this this way, so you get A, B, and C out of it.  Consider what your reaction as a reader would be...:uncomfortableness:  (Imagine the writer standing at your shoulder poking you in the back of the head every time you had a thought that differed from theirs.)

It is the difference between grounded, contextual inference and obscurity...You are asking the reader to fill in too many blanks.  You want their emotional imput and context, when you haven't infused any of your own.  And it isn't the reader's job to supply that level of detail.  Don't rob Peter to pay Paul.  Yes, as readers we can extrapolate, but there is a difference between drawing a parallel and supplying the lion's share of the context.  This is where even the slightest of details, the merest hint of a voice will come into play.

If you invest a little more, the readers will as well.   As to the inclusion of the explanatory text, the reader has to read the piece twice and still doesn't get much out of it, except that they weren't smart enough to understand your meaning the first time because they didn't read it as it was meant to be read.  In essence, they are reading it wrong...(Most readers aren't deliberately obtuse or ignorant. I've read a parable or two along the way, and personally, I like Psalms and the Songs of Solomon in the lyricism of the original KJV translation.  Almost 400 years in print, they must be doing something right.   )  Consider that words are as nets unto the fishers of men.  The quality of the weave counts.

As Edmund Wilson said:  'No two persons read the same book.'  Don't take the reader's comprehension for granted and allow your work to stand on its own merit.  If there is an issue consider the possibility of revision.  Your creative process is yours and yours alone.  It doesn't belong beyond the fourth wall alongside a submitted piece.  (It is akin to space bubble perforation.  You are telling the reader how to think as they read, undermining the reader's thought process.  Essentially, inferring any problems are due to reader error not an issue with the writing.  For the most part there is merit on both sides.)

Look for middle ground.  Make your meaning clear and bring your voice into play so the reader understands A, B, and C without having to consult an appendix.  Consider a revision that incorporates your explanatory text into your poem.  This is where you can make the words count.  S2 3/5 of your words repeat...Why not extrapolate on your meaning rather than repeat: To those who?  Things like inference and carry over are also elements that come into play with poetry.  It isn't all about poetic devices.  Use a line once in a stanza, especially at the start of it, chances are the reader will figure it out.

e.g.

To chose the arrow's path
 against pleasure's thrall,
a battle renewed each day,
while rewards are unseen.

Edit:  Religion, belief, whatever your context, is not sterile.  It is inherently imbued with emotions.  Something to try.  A juxtaposition of sorts:  Take the word religion or faith and write down five words that come to mind.  Next write down the antonyms for those five words.  Try writing a poem about faith using those ten words.  See what you come up with.  Put yourself in context.


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## nelen (Mar 18, 2017)

Well done for getting pen to paper if you haven't written a poem since High School. It's starting which is so hard. The content of your poem was easy to understand, but I felt sometimes the words could be better chosen. May be you need to think carefully about the words, taking time to use a) The precise word (the English language is very rich and contains many words that are extremely similar in meaning, but are  subtly different)or b) an interesting, novel use of words. I suggest you read some poetry with these thoughts in mind. Possibly something by Dylan Thomas will be of use ( I am new to this Forum and do not know if you can mention specific poets! My apologies if you can't). I may not be expressing myself all that well, as like you I am really out of practice. I haven't even got to the poetry writing bit yet'!


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