# Speech in the medieval times.



## wantanmee

Hello all.

I'm writing a piece of fiction set in the medieval times. Would it be weird if I have the characters speak in contemporary English instead of Old English? Has this been done before? Can anyone give me examples of books where the author have done thusly?

Thank you for your help.


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## wantanmee

Oh, also allow me to ask this here rather than in a new thread. Is there a more medieval English term for a crank? The type one uses to draw water from a well. 'Crank' somehow feels more American than English to me. I might be wrong.


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## ppsage

windlass


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## Ari

*raises hand* Second-year linguistics major student... think that I might be able to help ^_^
Firstly, in the medieval period they didn't speak Old English. They spoke Middle English. Middle English is not easily understood by modern English speakers... if you were going to write your dialogue in it, you'd first have to learn the language and then add translations on every page...

Here's an example of Middle English:
Ye seken lond and see for your wynnynges,
As wise folk ye knowen all th'estaat 
Of regnes; ye been fadres of tydynges
And tales, bothe of pees and of debaat.

That's from the _Canterbury Tales_.
I think writing in Modern English might be the best idea...


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## wantanmee

ppsage said:


> windlass



Ah, thank you.



Ari said:


> *raises hand* Second-year linguistics major student... think that I might be able to help ^_^
> Firstly, in the medieval period they didn't speak Old English. They spoke Middle English. Middle English is not easily understood by modern English speakers... if you were going to write your dialogue in it, you'd first have to learn the language and then add translations on every page...
> 
> Here's an example of Middle English:
> Ye seken lond and see for your wynnynges,
> As wise folk ye knowen all th'estaat
> Of regnes; ye been fadres of tydynges
> And tales, bothe of pees and of debaat.
> 
> That's from the _Canterbury Tales_.
> I think writing in Modern English might be the best idea...



Won't readers think it is odd that people in the past speaks modern english?


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## patskywriter

wantanmee said:


> … Won't readers think it is odd that people in the past speaks modern english?



It's okay to suspend belief. I'd hate to be restricted to reading about English-speaking people from the modern era.


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## Ari

> Won't readers think it is odd that people in the past speaks modern english?



What patskywriter said. 
The Cadfael books are set in Medieval England and they speak an English everyone can understand. They don't say "okay" and that kind of thing, but it's still Modern English. The same with the Matthew Shardlake books by somebody Sansom. I think in those the sentence structure is slightly archaic, but it's definitely not Middle English...
And no one expects to read a book where King Arthur speaks Latin and some kind of Gaelic language, as he should  

.... sorry for rambling.


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## Clove

wantanmee said:


> Won't readers think it is odd that people in the past speaks modern english?



Odd in the same way that I can read Tolstoy and wonder why the characters are speaking English? It's all about accessibility. Middle English, though might be more realistic, would do more harm than good if used because it would hinder the experience of reading.


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## wantanmee

Thanks guys and girls. I'll check out the books you mentioned and figure it out.


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## Dave Watson

As a fan of historical fiction novels, this is something I always look out for. The way the character Macro in Simon Scarrow's Roman series speaks for example, is kind of like a modern foul mouthed Cockney at times, and now and again it causes me to raise an eyebrow if it sounds a little too unrealistic, but generally it's good stuff and you can suspend disbelief as you get carried away by the patter. 

If I'm writing stuff set in historical periods, I tend to make my characters use old sounding dialogue, not too flowery but enough so it has its own particular tone. The kind of thing you might hear in _Spartacus _or _Lord of the Rings! _Here's a wee example...



“Where are you from, Vandrad?” Breck asked. “Originally, I mean.”

“My home is a settlement called Birka,” Vandrad replied between mouthfuls of dried meat. “A trading centre on the island of Björkö on the Mälar sea.”

“Your homeland has many strange names,” Breck said. “I do not know these places.”

Vandrad, not naturally given to excessive talkativeness, sensed that the boy sought distraction in conversation. Understandable, he mused, given what had happened to his village and family.

“I do not expect that you would,” he said, taking pity on the boy. “Ah, such a wondrous place it is, Breck. The trade route upon which it lies brings ships from many far off lands, lands at the end of the world. The ships carry traders, exotic men such as you have never seen. Men of yellow and brown skin, who speak in a thousand tongues and dress as women in long silken robes. They bring with them many fantastic stories and the treasures and marvels of their lands; spices, materials, strange metals, jewels and gold. All the gold in the world flows through Birka.” He sighed, remembering the bustling merchant port fondly.

“Why did you leave there?” Breck asked, his eyes wide with child like wonder as he imagined these strange, far off places.

“I desired to grow old and fat,” the Norseman said. Breck frowned in confusion at his words and Vandrad smiled. “My people do not usually live long, Breck,” he explained. “A Norseman who reaches forty summers is considered to have lived a very long life; such is the warlike nature of the people of the north. The Norse lands to this day are squabbled over by this king and that would be ruler, and war is everywhere. There are petty family feuds and tribal disputes over land. Quarrels centuries old linger, and blood is spilled every day. Birka, because it is a trading centre, is fiercely fought over and contested, often attacked by raiders who come for its riches.”

“You were a soldier there?”

Vandrad nodded. “A captain of the guard. The settlement resembles a fortress more than a town, and there is an entire garrison of men employed to defend it, mostly ex soldiers. Experienced fighters.”


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## Bard_Daniel

+1 and a lesson learned.


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## stormageddon

Might be a little late in posting, but my English language teacher is always complaining about how unrealistic Game of Thrones is accent-wise. According to him, the closest modern equivalent to how medieval lords and ladies would have spoken is the Cockney accent. Blows my mind if he's actually right. And given that he studied the history of the English language at university, I think he must be.


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## InstituteMan

stormageddon said:


> Might be a little late in posting, but my English language teacher is always complaining about how unrealistic Game of Thrones is accent-wise. According to him, the closest modern equivalent to how medieval lords and ladies would have spoken is the Cockney accent. Blows my mind if he's actually right. And given that he studied the history of the English language at university, I think he must be.



At the risk of veering off topic to argue with your English teacher, the Common Tongue of Westeros can sound like anything you or I or (more importantly) Martin thinks it sounds like. Just because the society is modeled on medieval England doesn't mean that is what the characters sounded like. Plus, Dothraki and Valyrian and all the rest.


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## stormageddon

InstituteMan said:


> At the risk of veering off topic to argue with your English teacher, the Common Tongue of Westeros can sound like anything you or I or (more importantly) Martin thinks it sounds like. Just because the society is modeled on medieval England doesn't mean that is what the characters sounded like. Plus, Dothraki and Valyrian and all the rest.



Well, that's what I told him. Detention is a terrible thing v.v


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## Ari

Your English teacher gave you detention for that? When it's a valid point? How mean!
Mine would've asked for proof to back up the theory. He would have insisted I go and discover exactly what the author's intentions were, and present them to him in a well-structured argument.

On second thoughts... detention might've been preferable.


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## stormageddon

Me and teachers do not get on. I'm not disruptive in class, and I do enough work to stop them tearing their hair out, but I'm always coming out with stupid things that come across as disrespectful. If that had been a one off, I probably would have got away with it. Unfortunately, just the day before, he came in in a suit, and I asked him why he looked so much smarter than usual. People are so easily insulted...

Hehe, I imagine it would've been  unless it was a tidying up detention, those are so bad. And I always end up breaking things (I managed to smash one of those two foot light bulb things the time before last, despite it being on the ceiling).

To go back on topic before I cause yet another thread to be hijacked, wantanmee, just do whatever you want if you're writing medieval dialogue. It needs to be accessible to a wide range of readers, and that alone means you can't be authentic. So, whatever seems natural when you're writing it is probably what's best for the story. As long as the characters aren't tossing around OMGs and suchlike, you're probably dandy


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## Ari

Ohh...
Okay. Hm. Oh well. I'm sorry?

See signature below


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## Bard_Daniel

I'm reading World Without End and he (Ken Follett) just uses normal English, even though it's set in medieval England. 

It works well, and is still classified as legit historical fiction.

....just my two cents.


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