# Your Words Are Not Precious



## Kyle R (Sep 12, 2013)

I stumbled across this little snippet. Thought I'd open it up for discussion.* :encouragement:

----

Your words are not precious.
*
This is the best advice I have ever received, and even though it was given with reference to fiction writing, it holds true to any form of writing.  This doesn’t mean that the writing isn’t good or important, or that it doesn’t entertain people in an important way.  All it means is that the words I write can be easily thrown out and re-done, and none of them are valuable as mere words.  As soon as my words become more important than the project, I don’t deserve to be on the project.  As soon as a person who I am working with on a project is unwilling to change the words to make the project better, I know that person doesn’t have what it takes . . .

- Shawn Merwin


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## squidtender (Sep 12, 2013)

That's very true. One brush stroke doesn't make a picture, or one chip from the marble doesn't make a statue. This quote should be chanted during the editing process. 

You are NOT a beautiful or unique snowflake . . .


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## dale (Sep 12, 2013)

for some reason, my muse is taking great offense at this. she's kind of bubbling up and making me want to snap out and defend the precious words i write for her.


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## squidtender (Sep 12, 2013)

Oh man . . . she's ALWAYS the first one to get her knickers in a twist about that


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## popsprocket (Sep 12, 2013)

I like this.


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## Jeko (Sep 12, 2013)

I _would _like this.

If the button hadn't disappeared.


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## Sam (Sep 12, 2013)

_Precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious precious.
_
There you go: my words are 'precious'.


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## Gumby (Sep 12, 2013)

Cadence said:


> I _would _like this.
> 
> If the button hadn't disappeared.



The Gremlins giveth and the Gremlins taketh away...


Actually, I was gonna like it, too.


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## PiP (Sep 12, 2013)

Hey guys, you can always use the reputation button to replace the like


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## Myers (Sep 12, 2013)

I've written things that were hard for me to cut, but I've never really considered them to be "precious." I do save tasty bits of description, simile, metaphor etc. in case I see a place for them in the future. But maybe knowing that I have them safely stashed makes it easier for me to get rid of something that I love when I see it's not working in that particular instance.


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## Grape Juice Vampire (Sep 12, 2013)

^Exactly this.


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## Sintalion (Sep 12, 2013)

This pretty much summarizes my editing philosophy (the words on paper are just words, all equally vulnerable to my pen).


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## Tettsuo (Sep 12, 2013)

Individual words aren't special.

The message you're trying to deliver is.  Maybe not unique, but definitely special.


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## OurJud (Sep 12, 2013)

Well by this logic I'm gonna make it, cos I've never felt anything I've written was precious.


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## shadowwalker (Sep 12, 2013)

Myers said:


> I've written things that were hard for me to cut, but I've never really considered them to be "precious." I do save tasty bits of description, simile, metaphor etc. in case I see a place for them in the future. But maybe knowing that I have them safely stashed makes it easier for me to get rid of something that I love when I see it's not working in that particular instance.



Me, too. I have a list of phrases and even paragraphs that I know I'll find the perfect story for - but they didn't work in the original   And some I just like to read over and over and over... :queen:


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## Morkonan (Sep 12, 2013)

KyleColorado said:


> I stumbled across this little snippet. Thought I'd open it up for discussion.* :encouragement:
> 
> ----
> 
> Your words are not precious....*



I disagree with it... 

For one, it seems he's referring to cooperative projects. I don't do those, so it doesn't apply to me. (At least, not in Writing.) I could see where it may be handy for those who work in certain industries where co-op efforts are more common. However, as some sort of general truism that one should hold to in writing - No.

Someone tell me that Shakespeare's words aren't "precious." How about Mark Twain's? Aristotle's? St. Augustine's?

Words can be damn precious. Words and the unique combinations writers subject them to can be priceless. Nobody else is going to write the words for a writer. Nobody. Those words are precious. Yes, if you need to change them, then change them. But, if you don't see the need to change them when it should be obvious, you're making a mistake. If you continue to make those mistakes, you're just a bad writer. But, good writers didn't get that way by throwing their own words under a buss, willy-nilly.


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## Apple Ice (Sep 12, 2013)

Morkonan, it seems you just made a generic and obvious statement and passed it off as a counterpoint. "If they need changing then change them." Well, now we know. 

Those writers could have written what they did in a thousand different if they wished.  

Although you could just love a good old internet tear up for all I know.


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## Morkonan (Sep 12, 2013)

Apple Ice said:


> Morkonan, it seems you just made a generic and obvious statement and passed it off as a counterpoint. "If they need changing then change them." Well, now we know.
> 
> Those writers could have written what they did in a thousand different if they wished.
> 
> Although you could just love a good old internet tear up for all I know.



Huh?

The point is that if a writer recognizes his words may need changing then he should change them and not, instead, "fall in love with them" and be inflexible about it. And, "No", those writers could have not have written what they did in a thousand different ways if they wished and still have retained the beauty of what they wrote. You understand what "writing" is, right? If Shakespeare had used different words, it wouldn't have been Shakespeare. Why do we quote great writers if it doesn't matter what words they used? Why do we feel that certain combination of words are particularly important, even majestic or poetic? It matters.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, here, and see no possibility of any sort of "internet tear up." I just disagree with the general idea that a writer's words are not "precious." I believe that they can be.

Edit- Add - Everything has already been written. If this general truism is, indeed, correct, then why are we still writing things if how we arrange the words isn't important or particularly "precious?"


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## Apple Ice (Sep 12, 2013)

Right, well doing that is not considering your words as precious. Considering Shakespeare invented words I'm fairly certain he could have, If you took it in the literal sense of thousands then probably not. If Shakespeare considered his words precious he wouldn't have invented new words, words are just a tool to a writer, nothing more. His final drafts were just the best fit. 

Haha, "You know what writing is, right?" says one amateur  to another.


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## Lewdog (Sep 12, 2013)

What has caused this influx of threads trying to tell people what words they can and can not use when they write, and that their word choice is worthless?  I know there are times when a word change is necessary but this has gotten a little silly I think.  Literature reminds me a lot of ice cream...yes ice cream.  There are more flavors out there than you can imagine and there are people out there that like each and every one of them.  Unless a person wants to be a sell out, or simply be a slave to the readers, they should write how and what they want and be happy doing it, and filling their selves with pride and accomplishment not worrying about immediate gratification from others.  Yes, of course we want someone to say we did a good job, but just like other aspects of our lives we shouldn't have to change WHO we are in order to get to that point.  Would a thread telling people who wear glasses that they are dated and unpopular, that they MUST get contact lenses, be any different than these threads?  Not in my opinion and just as inappropriate. 

Lexiconism (I just made up that word), an individual's hatred for certain words and their usage, is a problem that must be stopped!


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## Kyle R (Sep 12, 2013)

I took it to mean "Don't get too caught up on your words." For me, it applies to writing and productivity.

Often I find myself toiling over a paragraph, a sentence, sometimes even a _word_ for extended periods of time. Reminding myself that the overall product (the story) is more important than the words themselves is what helps me get over that bump and keep moving.

Yes, Shakespeare spun some incredible yarn, but if you think of all the people who have read _Romeo and Juliet_, the majority of them remember the story first and foremost, not the words. I can quote a few iambic pentameters from his works, but the characters and the events are what stick with me the most.

Words are our bread and butter, but getting too attached to them can be detrimental if it gets in the way of the bigger scheme.

The one exception I can think of is poetry, where words carry much more weight in comparison to the overall piece. :encouragement:


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## squidtender (Sep 12, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> What has caused this influx of threads trying to tell people what words they can and can not use when they write, and that their word choice is worthless?  I know there are times when a word change is necessary but this has gotten a little silly I think.  Literature reminds me a lot of ice cream...yes ice cream.  There are more flavors out there than you can imagine and there are people out there that like each and every one of them.  Unless a person wants to be a sell out, or simply be a slave to the readers, they should write how and what they want and be happy doing it, and filling their selves with pride and accomplishment not worrying about immediate gratification from others.  Yes, of course we want someone to say we did a good job, but just like other aspects of our lives we shouldn't have to change WHO we are in order to get to that point.  Would a thread telling people who wear glasses that they are dated and unpopular, that they MUST get contact lenses, be any different than these threads?  Not in my opinion and just as inappropriate.
> 
> Lexiconism (I just made up that word), an individual's hatred for certain words and their usage, is a problem that must be stopped!



I see what you're saying, LD, but I think you're reading too much into this. Posting a thread about a different way of doing something, doesn't mean you HAVE to follow it. It's just meant to get you thinking about a different way. Maybe it helps or maybe it doesn't, but be thankful that we can bring these ideas to the rest of the class. 

To use your ice cream analogy, if we didn't bring these thoughts and ideas out in the open (even if you disagree with it), we'd all be eating vanilla.


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## OurJud (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes, but who wants garlic flavoured ice-cream?


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## Tiamat (Sep 12, 2013)

To build on what squid said, this _is_ the Writing Discussion section.  You know, the place to discuss writing.  Wouldn't it therefore be normal to, say, discuss words, different methods of using them, and, oh, alternatives to the norm?  Just a thought.

As to the OP, I concur.  Words are tools, nothing more.  They're tools a writer uses to convey thought and meaning, and it only makes sense to have the good sense to rearrange them as needed.  Editing, for example, is taking what you already wrote and asking yourself how you can make those words better--by changing, deleting, or adding.  

Ergo, words are not precious.  They can be beautiful, provocative, and any number of other things, but what is precious is the meaning they convey.  _That_ is what makes Shakespeare, Twain, and even Dr. Seuss worth reading.


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## squidtender (Sep 12, 2013)

OurJud said:


> Yes, but who wants garlic flavoured ice-cream?



Lots of people . . . in fact, it's quite popular. But, it required someone to think outside of the box . . . I'm sure he or she had other people telling them it was "silly" and shouldn't be talked about.


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## Lewdog (Sep 12, 2013)

One of my many flaws is that I can often be very logical.  I do look at what people write or say and take it to heart for what it says.  When I read statements like, "a good writer should never use this word," or, "good writers avoid doing...," I take it word for word and don't try to interject the idea of it being an opinion, but instead a rule.  Could I be more open to the idea that the authors of such quotes are simply stating what _their_ opinion of a good writer is?  Probably, but at the same time I think we have all learned at some point or another what making assumptions can do.  

Some of my feelings on this matter also stem from reading such quotes as, "It makes sense that this should be a rule because I see so many crappy published books making millions of dollars that are full of these types of words..."  Huh?  Crappy, _published_, *making millions of dollars*?  Those books are only crappy in the opinion of the poster, and it should be stated so in my opinion.  Once again we fall back on the idea of taste, and using a recommendation to validate one's taste is illogical.

This is just my side of this discussion, and to me it just seems presumptuous to throw out recommendations on different styles of writing, and following it up with terms like 'good writers do this.'  In the end your vanilla might not be MY vanilla, and my pralines and cream might be your moose tracks.


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## Tiamat (Sep 12, 2013)

Lewdog said:


> to me it just seems presumptuous to throw out recommendations on different styles of writing.


I'm just curious--did you really manage to keep a straight face while you wrote that?  It might be presumptuous for someone who had never strung a complete sentence together to suggest different styles of writing, sure.  I'd buy that.  It'd be like Miley Cyrus contending that third person present tense was the only way in which fiction should be written.  That would certainly be presumptuous.  But for other writers to say, "Hey, I read this article about the unreliable narrator technique and I wanted to share it," in what world is that presumptuous?  This is a discussion.  That's what a discussion is:  You present a topic and you share your thoughts with other people.  

What is presumptuous to me is someone saying that a specific topic--such as a quote about words being precious--is not worthy of discussion.  But then, maybe I'm being overly logical by wishing to discuss different facets of the craft we're all supposed to love.


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## squidtender (Sep 12, 2013)

I would rather encourage an environment that lets other ideas and styles flourish, rather than calling them:



> silly


 


> inappropriate.


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## Terry D (Sep 12, 2013)

Then there was Mark Twain who said, "The difference between the right word, and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug." He obviously thought words were pretty valuable. So do I. The whole 'our words aren't precious', 'not getting married to your words', and 'killing your darlings' discussion isn't about being less concerned with word choice, or phrasing, but about being willing to sacrifice a favored phrase for the good of the story. There's more room in a novel to have words, or phrases that don't pull their weight (it's still a bad idea, however), but in a short story every word is gold and should be chosen that way.


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## Lewdog (Sep 12, 2013)

Tiamat said:


> I'm just curious--did you really manage to keep a straight face while you wrote that?  It might be presumptuous for someone who had never strung a complete sentence together to suggest different styles of writing, sure.  I'd buy that.  It'd be like Miley Cyrus contending that third person present tense was the only way in which fiction should be written.  That would certainly be presumptuous.  But for other writers to say, "Hey, I read this article about the unreliable narrator technique and I wanted to share it," in what world is that presumptuous?  This is a discussion.  That's what a discussion is:  You present a topic and you share your thoughts with other people.
> 
> What is presumptuous to me is someone saying that a specific topic--such as a quote about words being precious--is not worthy of discussion.  But then, maybe I'm being overly logical by wishing to discuss different facets of the craft we're all supposed to love.



You cut off what I said which takes it totally out of context.  The full quote says:



> This is just my side of this discussion, and to me it just seems presumptuous to throw out recommendations on different styles of writing, and following it up with terms like 'good writers do this.'



It's totally different to share ones opinions and present different styles of writings, but it is presumptuous to make statements like, "good writers do this."


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## Lewdog (Sep 12, 2013)

squidtender said:


> I would rather encourage an environment that lets other ideas and styles flourish, rather than calling them:



...but ah ha!  Using one of those horrible thought words, "think," I helped to state that it was _my_ opinion to share and that I was not making statements on behalf of others.


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## squidtender (Sep 12, 2013)

I don't want to hijack Kyle's thread, but I'm hopeful that if you can recognize what you say is an opinion, then when you hear someone else speak, you won't:



Lewdog said:


> take it word for word and don't try to interject the idea of it being an opinion



Thank you, Kyle. Great thread!


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## FleshEater (Sep 12, 2013)

Oh boy.

Who's Shakespeare? 

Anyways...I can get behind this idea, but can't apply it. I suffer from a disorder known in acronyms as OCD. It doesn't allow for an almost perfect word to be left untouched. 

It sucks. I know. But admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. Right?


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## squidtender (Sep 12, 2013)

And I can vouch for FE on that . . . it's very true, and regardless of the amount of bodily harm I threaten him with, he can't change.


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## Myers (Sep 12, 2013)

squidtender said:


> Posting a thread about a different way of doing something, doesn't mean you HAVE to follow it. It's just meant to get you thinking about a different way. Maybe it helps or maybe it doesn't, but be thankful that we can bring these ideas to the rest of the class.
> 
> To use your ice cream analogy, if we didn't bring these thoughts and ideas out in the open (even if you disagree with it), we'd all be eating vanilla.



Or it _may_ be the opposite. Because more often than not, people aren’t bringing original ideas to the table. It’s from something that was picked up on the internet; the same thing all the other aspiring writers are reading and sharing like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. So it's not really so different. And over time, it’s no longer a suggestion or something an author said tongue and cheek, it becomes gospel. Pretty soon everyone’s churning out the same flavor, whether it’s vanilla or not.

And I’m not really trying to give you hard time; just looking at it a different way. Like most things, there are gray areas, and the good comes along with the bad. You have to assume that people will get to the point where they know what to take and what to leave behind. Hopefully that happens sooner than later. I'm more of a shoot first ask questions later kind of writer; I don't like to go into it thinking about restrictions or anything that even smacks of a rule. And I do realize I can be a little pigheaded about it too, that maybe I should be more open minded. Live and learn, as they say. 

BTW, not really sure how things got off on this track. This thread really doesn't seem to be about anything restrictive or rule-like. Kind of seems more like common sense to me.


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## FleshEater (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes, a lot has been said over and over. However, I think the point in this thread (and the last) is to bring a more meaningful conversation to the Writing Discussion area besides the, "How do I write 100,000 words?" or "Can I really be a writer?" topics. 

It's nice to actually try and have a productive conversation rather than flood the forum with self doubt or self help-like threads.


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## Myers (Sep 12, 2013)

.


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## Morkonan (Sep 17, 2013)

Apple Ice said:


> Right, well doing that is not considering your words as precious. Considering Shakespeare invented words I'm fairly certain he could have, If you took it in the literal sense of thousands then probably not. If Shakespeare considered his words precious he wouldn't have invented new words, words are just a tool to a writer, nothing more. His final drafts were just the best fit.


4

The point is that it is the Writer's words that matter. It's the choices that the Writer makes which makes his work a bestseller or a flop.



> Haha, "You know what writing is, right?" says one amateur  to another.



I've been paid for my writing, among other things. Though, I will not yet call myself a "Professional" Writer. But, instead of arguing against the poster, argue to the point being made. Of course, it's just my opinion.

Editors or Beta Readers could influence the work, even convince the Writer to change their words. But, the Writer shouldn't consider doing that in a vacuum. One of the things they have to judge is whether or not their words are really "Precious Enough" to keep in light of the changes suggested. I'm sure some Writers get overzealous in the protection of their words, but there's also a point where a Writer must opt in favor of what they have written. There are plenty of success stories on either side of this aisle, but the fact remains - It's the Writer's choice of words that make the work what it is. Else, why have Writers at all?


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## Lewdog (Sep 17, 2013)

FleshEater said:


> Yes, a lot has been said over and over. However, I think the point in this thread (and the last) is to bring a more meaningful conversation to the Writing Discussion area besides the, "How do I write 100,000 words?" or "Can I really be a writer?" topics.
> 
> It's nice to actually try and have a productive conversation rather than flood the forum with self doubt or self help-like threads.



Wouldn't a better way of putting it be, "Don't take the editing process personally?"


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## TheYellowMustang (Sep 17, 2013)

KyleColorado said:


> I stumbled across this little snippet. Thought I'd open it up for discussion.* :encouragement:
> 
> ----
> 
> ...



This is actually very good advice IMO, and one of those common and repeated ones I actually fully understand. For me, it was something I had to learn by experience. In the beginning, even deleting a comma was painful. The next step was to actually delete sentences and paragraphs that didn't belong and save them in a different document. Now, I still save the things I delete if a part of me is unsure, but I know deep down that if I have to ask "Should I delete this?" then the answer is yes, so even though I do save it I know I'll never even glance in that document's direction ever again. Once you get over that hump it actually feels good to press the delete button. We've even become quite good friends


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## TheYellowMustang (Sep 17, 2013)

Ha, I realize I read the original advice a bit differently than some. To add to the discussion:

I think advice like this is most useful to new writers who have only read this about 3-4 times before, as opposed to 156. To me, it's about learning that your words are not precious, as in you shouldn't be so attached to a sentence that it keeps you from improving the actual story. Of course words _are_ precious. 



Myers said:


> Or it _may_ be the opposite. Because more often than not, people aren’t bringing original ideas to the table. It’s from something that was picked up on the internet; the same thing all the other aspiring writers are reading and sharing like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. So it's not really so different. And over time, it’s no longer a suggestion or something an author said tongue and cheek, it becomes gospel. Pretty soon everyone’s churning out the same flavor, whether it’s vanilla or not.



This seems a bit extreme to me. If all writers realized that it's important to actually be able to hit the delete button when it's necessary, then that hardy won't make every book "the same flavor". I can see how if, for example, every single writer on the planet started telling and not showing without any exceptions than that might make the stories more similar, but they will still be different stories, and the words will still be different, _and_ it's highly unlikely that it will even happen. All writers I know (both here and through reading their books) know not to follow an advice like that like a black and white rule.


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## Myers (Sep 17, 2013)

I think you're taking what I said too literally. The comment was a hypothetical; a response to the notion that sharing ideas here might lead to different styles or approaches, which is no more likely than my scenario, especially considering that everyone across the internet is sharing the same appropriated stuff. But I doubt either will have much of a noticeable effect.


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## David Gordon Burke (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm a real newby to this forum and to the world of serious writing.  Not that I haven't taken "writing" seriously all my life - anything I have ever posted on a forum or sent in an email or snail mail has been as grammatically correct and as thought out as possible.
I look at this thread in two ways.
1.  Let's not be pretentious.  Not knowing the members here or their work and just taking human nature into account, I figure most writers would aspire to write brilliant prose like Cormac McCarthy, James Joyce, Shakespeare (fill in your favorite writer's name here) but would gladly settle for selling a wad of commercial pulp fiction along the lines of James Patterson, Dean Koontz or Stephen King.  Not a problem.  So, unless a person is that one in a million writer whose ethics are so defined and their criteria so concrete that their art is incorruptible, this post about words not being precious is dead on, 100% accurate.  

2.  That said, one has to take into account the true meaning of a word and how that meaning evolves over time.  Some thesauri will give you an explanation of the subtle nuances of a word - fear vs. dread vs. shudder vs. apprehend - there are subtle differences.  And then there is the issue that ones words are not only NOT precious,  they may be completely WRONG.  (although acceptable in our disposible culture)  Take a look at this book.  Write it Right - _A Little Blacklist of Literary Faults - _Ambrose Bierce (free download at Many Books)  


How about "He climbed down from the tree" - a nonsense phrase.  Climbing involves ascending - one cannot climb down.  
No matter how you slice it or dice it, getting married to a phrase or word can be detrimental to one's creativity and success.  
I like statistics.  Let's try this.  90,000 words as a finished product for a novel means you should have a first draft in the range of 110,000 to 120,000 and then hack and slash aprox. 20% out of it to end up with a polished, meat and potatoes final draft.  So 20% has to go.  End of story.
D.G.B.


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## Whimsica (Sep 20, 2013)

Something inside me is refusing to live by these words. I'm sorry...
if I say it's precious, then it is precious to ME, and that's what I feel matters


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## shadowwalker (Sep 20, 2013)

David Gordon Burke said:


> How about "He climbed down from the tree" - a nonsense phrase.  Climbing involves ascending - one cannot climb down.



Agree with you on everything but this and the 20 percent thing. The above because you can, indeed, climb down (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/climb) and the percentage just because I hate to see anyone trying to use a formula for writing, be it length or editing or anything else.


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## Jon M (Sep 20, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> and the percentage just because I hate to see anyone trying to use a formula for writing, be it length or editing or anything else.


Pretty sure it's just a regurgitation of Steven King's comments, in _On Writing_: 2nd draft = 1st draft - 20%, or somesuch. 

Yeah, I don't put much stock in it, either. If anything, my 2nd drafts = 1st drafts + 20-30%. But those are _mine_, and I don't like speaking for anyone else.


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## dale (Sep 20, 2013)

Jon M said:


> Pretty sure it's just a regurgitation of Steven King's comments, in _On Writing_: 2nd draft = 1st draft - 20%, or somesuch.
> 
> Yeah, I don't put much stock in it, either. If anything, my 2nd drafts = 1st drafts + 20-30%. But those are _mine_, and I don't like speaking for anyone else.



that's why i don't do 2nd drafts. i know i'd just end up adding unneeded words just because i like the sound of my own flow and want more.
 so i just leave it alone and send it and before i start obsessing on it.


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## Kelson (Sep 20, 2013)

William Faulkner on writing ~ "Kill your darlings." If you have grown too fond of your wording or phraseology, it just may be, maybe, a good sign to edit it out. 

To quote another great writer, "'Nuff said," Stan Lee

~Kelson


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## shadowwalker (Sep 20, 2013)

dale said:


> that's why i don't do 2nd drafts. i know i'd just end up adding unneeded words just because i like the sound of my own flow and want more.
> so i just leave it alone and send it and before i start obsessing on it.



I hear you. I put so much sweat into the first one I don't have any left for a second.


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