# Does someone know how to describe sex in a book?



## SpartanWarrior (Jan 3, 2021)

Hey, everyone.
I have completed almost my book and I want to end it with sex. I just don't know how to describe it.
A friend of my gave as a advice to not get to much into the details. But still it's the first time for my two main characters.
Does anyone have any tips or advice to this?


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jan 3, 2021)

Less is more, implication is better than expression. _George slowly pulled out of Angela, and in rolling over lit a post-coital cigarette_... tells the reader all they need to know.


----------



## sigmadog (Jan 3, 2021)

I can only speak from experience here.

1. Begin with begging and pleading. 
2. The act itself, oh, about 30 seconds give or take.
3. follow up with crying and a heartfelt apology.
4. wait a year until your Birthday rolls around again, then repeat step 1.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Foxee (Jan 3, 2021)

A lot depends on what story you're telling and what kind of book you expect to end up with.


----------



## clark (Jan 4, 2021)

Bloggsworth is probably right . . . I'm being cautious because of Foxee's insight. Who ARE the participants? If they are coarse, low-life louts who grunt and thrash through 'the act' sloppy drunk . . . a coarse description might be essential. In a novel I'm writing, there is a lengthy 'sex scene' in which a high-class hooker describes in detail a 'nasty fuck' she just had with a lout known to the man she's speaking with. Then she tries to seduce him. The detail is essential to our sense of the (very different) evolving characters of the two men. At least, I very much hope that's the case!! 

The judge who ruled that _Lady Chatterley's Lover _was neither pornographic nor a gratuitous attack on community standards, used two broad criteria in arriving at his judgment: 1) was the sexual description designed primarily to arouse prurient desires/reactions?  (ie, was it a "one-handed" book ). 2) did the sexual descriptions consistently contribute to the literary development of the characters and their situation (ie, did the sex have literary merit?) He concluded "no" for 1) and "yes" for 2). I think 1) is really all you need as a rough guide. Sex can be a powerful index of character. On the other hand (hyuck--hyuck) in a pornographic 'novel', the plot and characters are just an excuse to get the reader from one graphically described sex scene to the next. I'm sure that excellent writing and intricate character/plot development would doom your ms to the cutting-room floor,


----------



## Sam (Jan 4, 2021)

The prevailing wisdom on this is exactly what Bloggs said: less is more. 

Unless, of course, you're writing something that as a rule requires and employs more, i.e. romance, erotica, etcetera.


----------



## Llyralen (Jan 4, 2021)

Read D.H. Lawrence.   Specifically, _Lady Chatterley's Lover.  _I am very serious.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Jan 4, 2021)

I'd go with Bloggsworth's general sentiment, but not the cigarette, that's cliche. You say it is their first time and at the end of the book, so it obviously is not a book that is sex obsessed, I'd avoid as much physical description as you can, "The ensuing encounter was a satisfying climax for both.", for example, no need to even call it a 'physical encounter'.


----------



## Bloggsworth (Jan 4, 2021)

clark said:


> Bloggsworth is probably right . . . I'm being cautious because of Foxee's insight. Who ARE the participants? If they are coarse, low-life louts who grunt and thrash through 'the act' sloppy drunk . . . a coarse description might be essential. In a novel I'm writing, there is a lengthy 'sex scene' in which a high-class hooker describes in detail a 'nasty fuck' she just had with a lout known to the man she's speaking with. Then she tries to seduce him. The detail is essential to our sense of the (very different) evolving characters of the two men. At least, I very much hope that's the case!!
> 
> The judge who ruled that _Lady Chatterley's Lover _was neither pornographic nor a gratuitous attack on community standards, used two broad criteria in arriving at his judgment: 1) was the sexual description designed primarily to arouse prurient desires/reactions?  (ie, was it a "one-handed" book ). 2) did the sexual descriptions consistently contribute to the literary development of the characters and their situation (ie, did the sex have literary merit?) He concluded "no" for 1) and "yes" for 2). I think 1) is really all you need as a rough guide. Sex can be a powerful index of character. On the other hand (hyuck--hyuck) in a pornographic 'novel', the plot and characters are just an excuse to get the reader from one graphically described sex scene to the next. I'm sure that excellent writing and intricate character/plot development would doom your ms to the cutting-room floor,



Actually, it was the jury who made the decision, not the judge. It was probably the words of the befrocked 19 Century prosecution barrister which tipped the balance - Waving the book around he asked the jury:

 "_*Would you want your wife or servant to read this book*_..."


----------



## clark (Jan 4, 2021)

Bloggsworth -- Quite correct.  I was being far too picky. The jury, yes, arrived at its decision. It was instructed, however, as to the essentially moral parameters it was to observe in its deliberations. I was thinking more along the lines that an actual _sentence _is the judge's exclusive purview. Under the British system, followed for the most part in Canadian jurisprudence, a judge CAN set aside a jury's decision. It is VERY rare, but has been done. In my comment I tried too hard to underline that the power of changing social standards resided in that one figure, the judge.


----------



## clark (Jan 4, 2021)

I am curious--and I am very much learning the novel form--why most of your comments rather dance around the sex issue. In between the lines seems to be . . ."do you absolutely *have* to have the sex?" And if you do, "less is more", or , sex is ok if the whole book has an erotic bent of some kind. What's wrong with a sex-chunk in an otherwise pretty sex-free novel? One from the past just leapt to mind--John Barth's _The Sotweed Factor, _a novel by no means erotic or prurient in its generality, has three or four sex scenes, one of which--I'd say close to 1000 words--seems downright pornographic. Hariki Mirikami's acclaimed _The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles, _again a non-erotic novel, has some very steamy scenes. 

Sex is an integral part of life and if, esp in longer works involving complex character development, sex scenes contribute significantly to our sense of a character, I don't think an author should hesitate. As Olly points out, however, how MUCH will always be a problem.


----------



## Foxee (Jan 4, 2021)

clark said:


> I am curious--and I am very much learning the novel form--why most of your comments rather dance around the sex issue.


Sure! My take on this is that it has zero to do with how we feel about sex and 100% to do with what shelf your finished work is on in the bookstore or what magazine will print it. Like almost any other aspect of story writing genre has forms and categories not to mention specific publisher guidelines.

If you're writing a romance your sex scene probably has guidelines that your publisher expects. 

Which aren't the same guidelines given for erotica, if any. 

Which will differ from mainstream. 

Sex probably won't show up at all in a young adult or a gothic romance. If YA goes there now I doubt it's anywhere near romance or erotica levels of description.

Sexual description in Sci-Fi can go to any level depending on who's publishing, who's writing, and, again, who is expected to be the audience.

Etc.


----------



## clark (Jan 4, 2021)

Lordy, I hate to open this old quandary--but is there not a distinction between EROTICA, which can have literary merit--the work of the pre-Raphaelites in the death-throe decades of Victorianism, _The Story of 'O', _that kind of thing . . . and flat-out PORNOGRAPHY, which is 100% prurient and dedicated to arousing the reader as an adjunct to masturbation. In the latter, I believe real writing skill, character development, structure, etc. would be UNdesirable, given the purpose of such books. Am I right?


----------



## Taylor (Jan 4, 2021)

SpartanWarrior said:


> Hey, everyone.
> I have completed almost my book and I want to end it with sex. I just don't know how to describe it.
> A friend of my gave as a advice to not get to much into the details. But still it's the first time for my two main characters.
> Does anyone have any tips or advice to this?





clark said:


> I am curious--and I am very much learning the novel form--why most of your comments rather dance around the sex issue. In between the lines seems to be . . ."do you absolutely *have* to have the sex?" And if you do, "less is more", or , sex is ok if the whole book has an erotic bent of some kind. What's wrong with a sex-chunk in an otherwise pretty sex-free novel? One from the past just leapt to mind--John Barth's _The Sotweed Factor, _a novel by no means erotic or prurient in its generality, has three or four sex scenes, one of which--I'd say close to 1000 words--seems downright pornographic. Hariki Mirikami's acclaimed _The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles, _again a non-erotic novel, has some very steamy scenes.
> 
> Sex is an integral part of life and if, esp in longer works involving complex character development, sex scenes contribute significantly to our sense of a character, I don't think an author should hesitate. As Olly points out, however, how MUCH will always be a problem.



As others have said, it depends entirely on your market.  If you provide too much description, you may lose a huge chunk of the market.  I'm a member of a number of book clubs.  The books we read are part of a large network of books pre-selected by the library.  I can tell you that none of those will have descriptive sex scenes in them.  It's because  although sex may be an integral part of life, so are a lot of things that some people don’t want to read about in detail. Doing your taxes is an integral part of life, but is a detailed description required in your book?  So it doesn’t matter if other authors include steamy scenes, the question is do your readers want to read it, and do they want to read it in your story?

I'm in a similar situation as the OP with my current WIP.  Two of my MCs are married and I have already included a scene in the bedroom with them.  My other two MCs have been having a romance and building up to it for some time.  I have tested the waters with members of my book clubs (all women) and it has been unanimous, no one wants too much detail.  Just the romantic parts of the leading up to and the winding down.  

Now, on the other hand, there are authors that have made their name on writing steamy scenes, and there is a huge market for that. Two that come to mind are Jackie Collins and E. L. James.  And plenty more I'm sure, but those are the bestselling authors that come to mind.  But IMO, if you wish to get this descriptive, you would need to do it early on, because this market expects it and would get bored if it didn't happen soon enough.  

But, to *SpartanWarrior,* you may wish to try something more novel. It's an intriguing idea to have it only happen at the end.  But, my thoughts are, first test your market to make sure they want to read detail, and that they want to read detail in this story.  If yes, then I would suggest that you allude to it early on and through-out the book.   If you are able to do that cleverly, then you could have a hit on your hands with a huge steamy scene at the end!


----------



## Gofa (Jan 4, 2021)

He looks deeply into her eyes a little lost as to what to do next.

She notices his indecision and asks quietly

Have you read 50 Shades of Grey

He colours then answers 

Yes 12 times

She counters

Me it's 20

A long pause follows

Okay then she breaks the silence feeling it's time to order up

Lets have a page 97 with 121 and a side of 243 and we can have with page 352 both ways

You can see him checking his watch as to how many days they should allocate

Then says 

Oh yes. Great

Now she becomes shy, looking at the floor she whispers

Can we finish with a Threesome with my Teddy Bear otherwise Teddy will sulk.

the end

As you can see lots of sex not too much detail


----------



## Foxee (Jan 4, 2021)

clark said:


> Lordy, I hate to open this old quandary--but is there not a distinction between EROTICA, which can have literary merit--the work of the pre-Raphaelites in the death-throe decades of Victorianism, _The Story of 'O', _that kind of thing . . . and flat-out PORNOGRAPHY, which is 100% prurient and dedicated to arousing the reader as an adjunct to masturbation. In the latter, I believe real writing skill, character development, structure, etc. would be UNdesirable, given the purpose of such books. Am I right?


Maybe I'm too young for the quandry.  I always thought that erotica was roughly equivalent to literary pornography.

ETA: Gofa that's a fun illustration. Someone really has to pick up the 50 Shades menu idea and run with it. I have never read 50 Shades but there are possibilities here.


----------



## Gofa (Jan 4, 2021)

Actually neither have I nor watched the movies
 But i am 12,000 words into a book that runs with those themes


----------



## River Rose (Jan 5, 2021)

Gofa said:


> Actually neither have I nor watched the movies
> But i am 12,000 words into a book that runs with those themes



I have read the 50 shade book series. Many times. Many ,,many times. Also have seen all of the movies many times. Many many times. The books were way more explicit than the movies. I do understand they had to scale the movies down in order to get into the theaters w a “R” rating. Many other erotica books along the 50 shades genre took off after their success. I read those as well. None disappointed.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Jan 5, 2021)

> . I have tested the waters with members of my book clubs (all women) and it has been unanimous, no one wants too much detail. Just the romantic parts of the leading up to and the winding down.


This may be bang on the money,Taylor, but it does occur to me that people's responses in a social situation and when alone reading may be quite different. Not everyone is as upfront as RR.


----------



## Deleted member 64995 (Jan 5, 2021)

I had the same problem as you.
I wrote some stories, with sex scenes, some very vulgar, some very soft.
But I was not satisfied.
One day by chance, I was looking for a gift, for a friend of mine, I discover this book:


*"I Give You My Body...": How I Write Sex Scenes*
*by Diana Gabaldon*


I like the writing style, by Diana Gabaldon, so I bought it.
And what I was looking for, a manual, which explains, and teaches how to write, sex scenes, finding the balance.


----------



## Taylor (Jan 5, 2021)

Olly Buckle said:


> This may be bang on the money,Taylor, but it does occur to me that people's responses in a social situation and when alone reading may be quite different. Not everyone is as upfront as RR.



Perhaps, but then one would have to assume people weren't being honest.  Most of these ladies read a lot and in addition to book club they pass books around once finished.  Some of those books have the odd steamy scene, so it's not like it's outside of their realm.  So, I actually believe them when they say they don't prefer to read about sex in detail.   

I also doubt that so many best-selling authors would avoid it, if they thought people wanted it.


----------



## EternalGreen (Jan 5, 2021)

Don't shy away. If your book needs it, include it.


----------



## Olly Buckle (Jan 5, 2021)

I was not implying deliberate deception, but many people are considerably influenced by their audience outside their awareness.


----------



## Taylor (Jan 5, 2021)

EternalGreen said:


> Don't shy away. If your book needs it, include it.





Olly Buckle said:


> I was not implying deliberate deception, but many people are considerably influenced by their audience outside their awareness.



I get where you are both going with this, and I agree whole heartedly with EternalGreen.  If you think your target market will enjoy it, even if you have to push them out of their comfort zone....then by all means go for it!  

And to Olly's comment, I agree, don't let your audience take control of your creativity.  How can we ever do anything cutting edge if we always retreat to what is already a given.


----------



## clark (Jan 6, 2021)

The issue is probably that simple: as EternalGreen says, if your book needs some detailed sex, let it find its way in at the appropriate times. And that is _not_ deliberately evasive phrasing. It's your book and no one knows the affected characters better than you. . . so if it feels right, really right, it probably is. And if the buying public says "No, we don't like it", that does not mean they're right. YOU, ultimately, must be the judge of right and wrong in your book. If you abandon that right in deference to projected reader responses, you're no longer a creative writer, you're simply a provider of a commodity to paying consumers. And there's nothing "wrong" with that either. But let's call stuff what it is. The early Stephen King was a superb writer. Had he chosen to, he probably could have gone on to be regarded as one of THE American novelists of this era. But he wouldn't have made much money. So he made a conscious decision, developed his 'plot formula' which is either out-front or weaving in the background of his books. . .and which his readers love . . .and made a lot of money. Nothing 'wrong' with that either. But when history decides which *novelists *from this era will be revered as masters of the form, taught in our schools, proudly displayed on our shelves, Stephen King will not be among them. By the same token, an otherwise commendable novel that uses sex gratuitously will also be sent down to the second (or lower) rank, simply because it exploits a (usually) private activity precious to most honest people, and demeans it in a misguided attempt at sensationalism. 

I think. Today. 

Sex-in-fiction is a complex issue. Perhaps writers inadvertently stitch their own sexual attitudes, hang-ups, desires, and stuff into the fabric of their plots and characters, failing to see that such scenarios are NOT integral at all to their book. Such miscues would be disastrous, I would think, to the whole book, but at times the writer may be unaware. One can only hope that one's deep understanding of the characters created will show the way . . . .


----------



## babyjenks (Jan 20, 2021)

A lot of readers have told me in the past I write good sex scenes, so I can suggest you what works for me. 
The level of detail really depends on what kind of story you are telling. Is it a romance novel? If it is, what's your targed audience? A younger one, or an adult one? And in case you are writing for adults, what part has sex played in the story before? I personally find weird when in a very romantic love story, with no mention of sex or sexual desire whatsoever before, then we get all of a sudden an almost pornographic sex scene. It totally breaks something. But if your characters have been wanting one another for the whole story, if they've been pining for each other and can't just wait to get naked... go for it! 

Writing the scene itself I also believe it depends a lot on your characters. Are you writing from what kind of POV? First, third person? A man or a woman? What kind of sex are they having, sweet and romantic lovemaking or rough filthy dirty-talking lovemaking? Do they love each other? Or do they just want each other? 

I find all of this can change the way a sex scene is written and how it should be written. I like to get my characters to bond through sex, often. But if you are only going to include one single sex scene in the novel, then ask yourself: what kind of emotions do you want to convey at the end of this journey with your characters? What are they excited about? 
I often find talking about all of this is a lot more engaging for the reader than a rigid, stiff physical depiction of an act we all already know. It's about feelings, in the end, whether it's love or lust. 

I hope this helps a little


----------



## CyberWar (Feb 2, 2021)

Sorry, couldn't help myself but respond with this meme.


On a more serious note, it really depends on the kind of book. An erotic novel would naturally have to be more explicit than a regular romantic or action/adventure novel.

Personally I'm not a big fan of explicit sex scenes. They are way too overdone in Hollywood films, being there for no other purpose than appealing to the basest human instincts to boost sales. I much rather prefer romantic encounters described in a manner where sex is implied rather than than explicitly shown, leaving more to the viewer's or reader's imagination. In my opinion, an explicit sex scene must have some storyline merit to be there besides simply titillating the reader (unless of course it's an erotic story where titillation is the whole point). Consider for example a scene somewhat typical to James Bond films/novels, where the protagonist secret agent is seduced by a femme fatale, who secretly plants a bug under the table they make out on, while her accomplices listening in must endure the next awkward hour or so listening to the two having the time of their life. In such a case, the sex scene merits the storyline as it introduces a new plot device (the bug and the villains listening in to the protagonist), also serving as a minor humorous relief (the henchmen finding themselves in an awkward situation).


----------



## ideasmith (Feb 21, 2021)

I find certain words to cringe me right out of the mood, if said writing got me there at all. Clinical-sounding language isn’t very sexy to me, nor are exact sizes and distances, the physics of moving, granular step-by-step.


----------

