# Religion~ do you go there?



## Dramatism (Jan 1, 2012)

Are there any modern books where religion is important in it?  Do you 'go there?'  I read historical novels for school all the time where it's important, but the books I read for fun never mention religion, unless we're talking sci fi, where usually no one has a religion (I forget the word for it).

I know I never 'go there' in my writing.


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## Bilston Blue (Jan 1, 2012)

Your starter for ten; The Da Vinci code.


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## garza (Jan 1, 2012)

Why avoid religion in your writing? Religion is and no doubt will continue to be an important element in human society.


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## Guy Faukes (Jan 1, 2012)

Bilston Blue said:


> Your starter for ten; The Da Vinci code.



He probably wants an example of a _good_ book on religion, jk.

The novel I'm working on revolves around it quiet a bit, as well as the supernatural. You can try to not offend people, but I figure that regardless of what you write on the subject, some highly opinionated person is going to be insulted one way or another.


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## Bilston Blue (Jan 1, 2012)

> He probably wants an example of a _good book on religion_


I'm no Dan Brown fan, nor am I particularly against him, either; but that thing was a good story. Whether a good story makes a good book is another issue altogether.



> The novel I'm working on revolves around it quiet a bit, as well as the supernatural. You can try to not offend people, but I figure that regardless of what you write on the subject, some highly opinionated person is going to be insulted one way or another.



I tend to agree with your point here, about people being offended. It seems, in today's society, there is always someone, somewhere, quite willing to be offended in order to forward their cause. For those who write with the intention of avoiding causing any offence to anyone whatsoever, and going out of their way to achieve such a goal, I hear the BBC are scouting for new talent.

That's not to say I set out to offend, because I don't. But if the story needed to follow a certain path, then so it would; regardless of the consequences.


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## Walkio (Jan 1, 2012)

Bestselling trilogy His Dark Materials by Philip Pulman deals with religion (in an unsavoury light) and generated a fair share of controversy.


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## Tiamat (Jan 1, 2012)

Have we all forgotten the scare tactics used the in the Left Behind series?


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## moderan (Jan 1, 2012)

I started my writing career, such as it is, doing Lovecraft pastiche. The _first things_ you tackle when you do that are religion and prejudice, if you want your work to have any power.
There have also been worthies such as James Blish and Michael Moorcock that have done especially good meditations about religious matters. Not to mention Ward Moore. Feel free to google.
Someone has entirely the wrong idea of what science fiction is about. It activates my pedant lobe.


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## saintenitouche (Jan 1, 2012)

Dramatism said:


> Are there any modern books where religion is important in it?  Do you 'go there?'  I read historical novels for school all the time where it's important, but the books I read for fun never mention religion, unless we're talking sci fi, where usually no one has a religion (I forget the word for it).
> 
> I know I never 'go there' in my writing.



You definitely ought to branch out and 'go there' lol, I do all the time, and not just about religion but anything controversial or debatable. You should express your opinions, doubts and reactions on all societal behavior and practices in your writing. It is your art!! Don't worry about what the reader will feel, that is for them to decide. It is simply your job to exploit your perceptions of everything you experience. Or at least that's how I see it.


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## aj47 (Jan 1, 2012)

Your story will tell you if you need to deal with religion as well as how to deal with it.


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## Man From Mars (Jan 1, 2012)

IMHO, religion and politics isn't a problem as long as you take the time to understand each side. The worst thing I could do is write about a religion, like Hinduism for example, and know nothing about it other than my preconceptions. It'll speak volumes of respect to show an accurate position, even if you don't agree with it. I think that's the difference between being controversial and being offensive.


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## archer88iv (Jan 2, 2012)

If you point your camera at it, you have to talk about it. Keep talking about it until the camera moves on.

...I usually find that fiction, as a part of the setting, is essential, but is also not worth exploring in detail. Then again, I don't explore much of anything in detail. I suppose you can say that it's like any other part of the setting, then. A book about religion, or about some kind of religious conspiracy, is another matter entirely, of course. But that's what religion is, for most people, in their daily lives: part of the setting. No reason to stress over it.


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## Terry D (Jan 2, 2012)

Fiction is about the lives of people (or aliens, or rabbits, or whatever), if religion is a part of the lives of your characters then write about it for heaven sake.


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## felix (Jan 2, 2012)

Tiamat10 said:


> Have we all forgotten the scare tactics used the in the Left Behind series?



Yes, it was aggressive, to say the least. 

Curiously, I've not only never written about religion, but I haven't noticed that fact. Now that I think of it, I'm not sure why.


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## shadowwalker (Jan 2, 2012)

saintenitouche said:


> You should express your opinions, doubts and reactions on all societal behavior and practices in your writing.



I'm not sure I'd agree totally with that. There's a temptation to proselytize which I find distasteful regardless of which side it's coming from. As to religion or other controversial subjects, for me it's like anything else - if the story requires it, use it. If not, why put it in there?


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## The Jaded (Jan 2, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> _f the story requires it, use it. If not, why put it in there?_


_

That's my take. "Go there" if the story is benefitted by it, and don't be afraid of people taking offense (because there's always someone who will, in this day and age, and the group that will be annoyed by you goose-stepping around things is bigger than the group that will be annoyed if you don't). Don't go sticking controversy where it doesn't deserve to be, but if your creative juices are flowing in that direction, don't try to stop them._


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## Guy Faukes (Jan 2, 2012)

Bilston Blue said:


> I'm no Dan Brown fan, nor am I particularly against him, either; but that thing was a good story. Whether a good story makes a good book is another issue altogether.



True, true. I actually liked the plot... I guess my qualm was that reading it was the equivalent of eating package of processed cheese. You feel progressively disgusted with yourself as you doing it, but you just can't stop. 



Bilston Blue said:


> I tend to agree with your point here, about people being offended. It seems, in today's society, there is always someone, somewhere, quite willing to be offended in order to forward their cause. For those who write with the intention of avoiding causing any offence to anyone whatsoever, and going out of their way to achieve such a goal, I hear the BBC are scouting for new talent.
> 
> That's not to say I set out to offend, because I don't. But if the story needed to follow a certain path, then so it would; regardless of the consequences.



Well wrote. It's nice to write something for the sake of writing something, without intention or slant.


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## saintenitouche (Jan 2, 2012)

shadowwalker said:


> I'm not sure I'd agree totally with that. There's a temptation to proselytize which I find distasteful regardless of which side it's coming from. As to religion or other controversial subjects, for me it's like anything else - if the story requires it, use it. If not, why put it in there?


I don't believe in religious missions, either. My goal would never be to convert anyone and I don't think I've ever been tempted to do so, especially about religion. But that's just coming from me. And though I can totally relate to what you mean, I don't think I've ever read much writing where the author/poet was trying to convince their audience anything about religion. I believe writing above everything else is a reflection of self and should have ultimately little to do with the audience at the moment of conception, if anything. But then again, it's always a good trip to take reading something simply because you know (for lack of a better word) that you do not agree with it. It broadens your mind and keeps you well informed. You can't argue against anything you are ignorant about. But I believe ultimately that poetry (and prose, if you want to get technical- many people will not agree with me about prose I guess, because many think that stories are just stories but writing is one in the same to me) is about the artist's perceptions and I think that things like human behavior and interaction, sociological concepts alike, are much more artistic and complex than say how you feel about today's stormy weather or about a fresh snow fall. Not that I'm not into writing about rain and snow! lol but when I say 'snow' chances are I mean something else, and not the technical form of the word. That was a great point though, shadowwalker. I should have been more clear, though I do think going out of the way to tackle difficult subjects like such is important for writers to do.


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## shadowwalker (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I have no problem with writers who want to take on the difficult subjects. But I do think they should be able to present both 'sides', via the characters/situations - that's where the proselytizing comes in if they don't. Undoubtedly the author's view will give the book a certain slant, but it shouldn't be obvious. People read fiction for entertainment first, and I think they enjoy a bit of controversy, something that makes them think. But they don't like being preached to - so writers really need to be careful not to do that, or risk losing future readership (unless, of course, they're writing in order to preach to the choir :wink


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## Notquitexena (Jan 2, 2012)

Dramatism said:


> Are there any modern books where religion is important in it?  Do you 'go there?'  I read historical novels for school all the time where it's important, but the books I read for fun never mention religion, unless we're talking sci fi, where usually no one has a religion (I forget the word for it).
> 
> I know I never 'go there' in my writing.



I address the matter of faith and have a known deity in my current fantasy universe, but it is not precisely Christianity (although it could be considered an analogue). It is part of the human condition, and even if you do not "go there" the act of omitting it is a statement of your beliefs.


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## Kyle R (Jan 3, 2012)

Dramatism said:


> Are there any modern books where religion is important in it?



I bet there's a ton. I don't hunt them down personally, but I imagine religious books are popular, especially among those readers who actively seek books with religious themes.



			
				Dramatism said:
			
		

> Do you 'go there?' ...I know I never 'go there' in my writing.



People write about gruesome murders and violent rapes in every single murder-mystery novel... but you can't write about theology? Seems a bit absurd to me.

I've read a few authors who write expressly about characters with different religious and cultural heritages, showing the awkwardness -- and the humanity -- that results when they interact. Zadie Smith comes to mind. Her debut novel "White Teeth" was populated by characters with different cultural and religious backgrounds.

Religion, and the various discussions it elevates (among atheists and agnostics as well) shouldn't be something to fear writing about.


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## moderan (Jan 3, 2012)

While I'm not so sure that discussion of religion elevates things in the main, I'm in agreement with that.
A good writer shouldn't be afraid to tackle _any_ subject, _any_ time.


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## Dramatism (Jan 4, 2012)

*Shrug*.

It's not that I'm afraid to talk about it or that I'm not religious.  I'm christian, I just don't want to address it in my writing.  I've never found the need to mention it in my stories.  Though my stories aren't flowers and butterflies, they've never been serious enough to mention God or the likes.  I just wanted to hear what you all had to say about the subject, as I am hearing.  Maybe it's just that I have little opinions to even care to address controversial topics?  I'm young, I'm sure I'll get a strong stance on things of that nature one day.  Of course I could mention different opinions I don't share in writing, I just don't want to and have never seen the need to.

Also, the kinds of books I read rarely mention religion or any controversial topics at all.  In my sci fi books I read, most of the time everyone is atheist, and one the other day mentioned the lack of racism since everyone on the space ship was mono ethnic from interbreeding so much, and it was thought that was 'the number one way to stop conflict (or something like that)'.

I just asked that part of the question because... my everyday books don't mention religion.  I guess I've read English books that heavily mention religion, but I've never read a book where it's casually mentioned.  Like, 'on Sunday I went to church.'


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## Jon M (Jan 5, 2012)

I'm writing a story where the mother of the family is super-religious, becoming that way later in life as a way to cope, and one of her sons, the older brother in the family, is racist. So yeah, I think I go there.

To write strong, character-based fiction, I don't see how one could _not_ go there. People are religious. That is life.


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## saintenitouche (Jan 5, 2012)

johnM said:


> I'm writing a story where the mother of the family is super-religious, becoming that way later in life as a way to cope



That sounds like my mom lolz


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 5, 2012)

johnM said:


> To write strong, character-based fiction, I don't see how one could _not_ go there. People are religious. That is life.



But they aren't.  With my Christian friends, sure, religion comes into play here and there.  But the majority of my friends AREN'T religious in any way, so it never gets discussed.  They say to write what you know, and what I know is that people don't talk about religion unless directly asked about it.  My characters aren't religious, and that doesn't make my storytelling any weaker.

Really, it's (as someone above me said) all based on whether your story needs it.  Mine doesn't.  Mine also doesn't have sex or romance (though real people participate in both), politics (though that's a very real part of the world), family (which is undeniably real), or any other things that don't fit in.  The characters do have morals, and ethics and the nature of humanity in general play very strong parts in the story.  However, neither requires religion to be a specific element of the story, so it isn't.


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## beanlord56 (Jan 5, 2012)

Try reading something by Ted Dekker, like _The Circle_. It has both Christianity and an analogue to Christianity.

Story-wise, my story needs it. Even in it's early stages, I intended to have my faith be the main staple of the story, and I can't imagine it without the analogue to Christianity.


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## Jeko (Jan 6, 2012)

Including religion is like standing on a tightrope above a bottomless chasm juggling knives, while partiually on fire. If you do it right, you're amazing. If you do it wrong...

Writing in religion is dynamite for a hundred things to go wrong. I therefore avoid it.

Basically, I think either you centre on religion, or you don't talk about it. Otherwise, people might ask about it when it isn't important. Only put it in if it is important.


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## Jon M (Jan 6, 2012)

I guess I have to reiterate Kyle's sentiment: you'll (speaking generally) write about murders, rapes, explosions where human beings are burned and reduced to the consistency of tomato puree, and somehow religion is a big no-no?

Mind blown.


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## Jeko (Jan 6, 2012)

johnM said:


> I guess I have to reiterate Kyle's sentiment: you'll (speaking generally) write about murders, rapes, explosions where human beings are burned and reduced to the consistency of tomato puree, and somehow religion is a big no-no?
> 
> Mind blown.



Murder and rape arer such obvious things that are so obviously wrong to everyone. Religion divides opinion far more, and is thus more dangerous to include. That's my take on it, anyway.


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## Terry D (Jan 6, 2012)

In my mind it's not a tough decision at all.  If the story calls for a discussion of religion, write about it.  If one of your characters is of a particular faith, and it is pertinent to the story, write about it.  If you are trying to make decisions about what should go into your story and what should be avoided I don't think you are being fair to your story.  The story is what it is, diluting it by avoiding a topic you don't think the readers will be comfortable with will rob it it of its power.

The worst form of censorship is self-censorship.


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## saintenitouche (Jan 6, 2012)

Dramatism said:


> Are there any modern books where religion is important in it?



OH! OH! "Franny and Zooey" by J.D Salinger. 

I like this thread, it's fun. ^.^


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## saintenitouche (Jan 6, 2012)

Cadence said:


> Including religion is like standing on a tightrope above a bottomless chasm juggling knives, while partiually on fire. If you do it right, you're amazing. If you do it wrong...
> 
> Writing in religion is dynamite for a hundred things to go wrong. I therefore avoid it.
> 
> Basically, I think either you centre on religion, or you don't talk about it. Otherwise, people might ask about it when it isn't important. Only put it in if it is important.



My very simple reply to this entire thing is, yeah center on religion, make it the essence of your story because otherwise there would be no point of including it, you want to criticize something or analyze something than do it fully and to a T. My next point is if you don't 'go there' and make mistakes and fall into that fathoms deep chasm of razor sharp rocks than you are never going to grow as a writer and earn your right to say whatever you feel about religion whilst saying it with the confidence of knowing that you're not just some sophomoric kid spewing ignorance about what you can't possibly understand because you have never experienced it... and stuff.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jan 6, 2012)

johnM said:


> I guess I have to reiterate Kyle's sentiment: you'll (speaking generally) write about murders, rapes, explosions where human beings are burned and reduced to the consistency of tomato puree, and somehow religion is a big no-no?
> 
> Mind blown.



I wouldn't write about them, but yes.  In order of taboo (least to most), it goes something like violence, sex, politics, religion.  Basically, it boils down to what Cadence said: The more divisive/controversial something is, the "worse" it is to write about it.


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## Jon M (Jan 6, 2012)

Cadence said:


> Murder and rape arer such obvious things that are so obviously wrong to everyone. Religion divides opinion far more, and is thus more dangerous to include. That's my take on it, anyway.


Religion isn't any more dangerous than most other character attributes. And that's what we are talking about here anyway, right? The characters in our stories. Just because you're writing 'about religion' doesn't mean you have to be 100% accurate and fairly represent it. If the character is a moron, has a skewed view of the world or sees everything being directly influenced by the hand of God, then that is how you write him. And writing him that way doesn't necessarily mean that is the way you -- the author -- personally see the world. It is just meeting the needs of one particular character, making him credible.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 6, 2012)

Modern books with religion as important?  Yes of course?

My favorite, at the moment, where religion at least plays an important role:

- A Canticle for Leibowitz - Walter M Miller
- Godless (it's about water towers, and it's YA Lit) - Pete Hautman
- The Alchemist - Paulo Coelho
- Fools Crow - James Welch (I think)
- His Dark Materials Trilogy - Philip Pulman
- Alvin Maker/Journeyman Series - by Orson Scott Card
- The Carpetmakers - Andreas Eschbach
- Good Omens - Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett
- Bless Me Ultima - Rudolfo Anaya
- Life of Pi - Yann Martel
- Ishmael - Daniel Quinn

and many many others. I guess they tend to be my favorite books, even. But this is the case ESPECIALLY because they do not force any one opinion on the reader. They show the beauty and the horror in things, and express complex issues as complex issues without oversimplifying things for some cheap attempt at proselytizing. Most of the above named books have won awards and sold very well. Several of them I have taught/seen taught in public high schools.

So yes, I go there in my stories too, when appropriate. And I show good parts, bad parts, and the conflicting complexity of things, to the extent that I can. Writing, to me, is about finding the essence of humanity. Religion is also about finding the essence of humanity. I think the two should work together, when appropriate. Or, you know, if you just want to note that a character is Jewish (like the werewolf in the American version of the tv show "Being Human" is [if I recall correctly], for no reason) go for it!


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## Grape Juice Vampire (Jan 10, 2012)

I usually don't as my stories don't usually need it, but the one I'm working on now does. Though it's not god as such, but many, basically religion but applicable to the characters and setting. Religion is a touchy subject, but when it's handled well whether it's trashed or venerated it can push a plot along and even give more context.


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## Gallowglass (Jan 15, 2012)

Yes, I go there. Among the many problems my guerrilla group is beset with is a slow reversion to paganism owing to their elemental, disconnected lifestyle.


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