# Faeries/Fae different types



## enchantedsecret24 (Jan 27, 2013)

Ok so my novel I am just starting is going to be about Fae people trying to find their queen who is living in our world instead of theirs. I've read so much on fairies and other fairy like beings but I am stuck right now. 

I have heard of seelie and unseelie courts being good vs bad, but I need a different group who could possibly be considered good vs bad groups of fairies. I read The Mortal Instrument Series and do not want to copy the seelie and unseelie courts from the writer. I want the main character to be half good half bad so that she has the choice of which side of faery she wants to join and rule.

The plot isn't where it should be yet, ( I know I have a lot of work to do on that) but I just feel like I need to come up with WHO these people are before I can know where this story is going. There are so many different types of fairies that it overwhelms me. 

I feel like If I write about faeries I need to include all of the different types in my story and maybe other creatures also but I'm not sure If maybe I'm just over thinking this. Could I just do good faeries vs bad faeries and leave out any other magical or mythological creatures without it being too boring?

So instead of seelie and unseelie I need two groups of faeries the main character could be made up of. She could be an ancestor of the two different faerie groups conjoined together or something. Please let me know if you have ANY ideas on this at all, because I am pretty lost right now. PLEASE HELP ME before I go crazy! lol Thanks in advance for your wonderful ideas and ispiration.


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## Ever2222 (Jan 28, 2013)

Well, I'd just say that my idea is a tad cliche, but you could have both of the fairy tribes united at one point, and her mother had to choose one and her father had to choose the other. Each tribe evolved over time and developed their own powers. She feels drawn to both of them. Although she was raised with her father.

That's all I can really think of. Hopefully that will inspire you some


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## Akoya (Jan 28, 2013)

This is your story and anyone who picks it up to read will accept the tribe/people/groups of whatever, for what the author, you, has written them as.  Not everyone has Elves that act just like the ones from LoTR.  Not everyone's main character has a humorous side kick.

I struggled *A Lot* with this question, how to include everyone's idea of what this type of people should be/act/do.  The answer is, you can't.  You can pick up a concept here, and another one there.  You can throw those in but if you read another book that opposes what the first two said?  Do you change the whole story due to one author?  Do you follow path made by the authors before you?  Or, maybe, you forge your own society and rules.  You make something just different enough to be loved in a whole new way.

*steps off soap box, clears throat*

Anyway, you mentoned a Queen so it is not a modern society which will make a fun story on their reactions of the more modern world as they search for their queen.  

Perhaps there is only one Kingdom but two sides of it.  On one side there are very strict laws.  The other is more of a underground free society.  The underground are painted as evil because they do not abide by the laws and curfews set by the uppers.  Your main character could find that those who live "evil" are not bad and has a choice to fight for them.

I also like the, yes a little cliche, idea that Ever2222 had.  It can still be done with what you have, and done well with the plot line you are looking at.

Now, nico Yanla si to-na
and keep writing.


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## Charlaux (Jan 28, 2013)

I agree with Akoya that you shouldn't worry about making your story fit with what people expect and what they know about fairies. You can make up something different. It's your story, and what the people believe in the world you create is the norm that matters. 

What sort of time and society is your book set in? Do the fairies hide in modern society, are known to people, or do they live away from it? I think that's quite important to consider when deciding how the good and bad fairy groups have evolved. As for creating a half-good and half-bad character, perhaps they could be some sort of changeling taken from one group and accepted by the other?


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## Whisper (Jan 28, 2013)

enchantedsecret24 said:


> Ok so my novel I am just starting is going to be about Fae people trying to find their queen who is living in our world instead of theirs. I've read so much on fairies and other fairy like beings but I am stuck right now.
> 
> I have heard of seelie and unseelie courts being good vs bad, but I need a different group who could possibly be considered good vs bad groups of fairies. I read The Mortal Instrument Series and do not want to copy the seelie and unseelie courts from the writer. I want the main character to be half good half bad so that she has the choice of which side of faery she wants to join and rule.
> 
> ...



First, I think you need to get away from the Good Faeries vs Bad Faeries. How are you defining bad? Do they go around killing random strangers? Usually when we think of good vs bad it's ends up just being a different point of view. Take the Cold War. Americans often thought of the Soviet Union as evil, but the normal everyday Russian wasn't evil or bad, they were just like us. Trying to feed their families and survive. The Russians may have viewed America as evil and maybe from their point of view we were, but I'm assmuing we were not. Good and Bad is rarely black and white. There is evil (seriel killers and the such) but even then, on the surface, they seem normal to almost everyone.

Also, this sounds a little like the Canadian Televison series Lost Girl.

Finally, stop worring too much about other groups. If your focusing on two groups, worry more about them and you can develop other groups as needed. When you do start to develop these groups, look for modivation in what is going on in the world around you today. Maybe one group is like North Korea, small, oppressive, poor, etc, one is like China, large, trying to expand its political influence.


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## Ariel (Jan 30, 2013)

The seelie and unseelie courts are not restricted to the "Mortal Instruments" series.  I think it's actually in some of the original fairy myths but I'm not sure.  One of the best places to find out is to read some of those myths for yourself then decide what you want to do with them.


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## enchantedsecret24 (Feb 3, 2013)

Charlaux said:


> I agree with Akoya that you shouldn't worry about making your story fit with what people expect and what they know about fairies. You can make up something different. It's your story, and what the people believe in the world you create is the norm that matters.
> 
> What sort of time and society is your book set in? Do the fairies hide in modern society, are known to people, or do they live away from it? I think that's quite important to consider when deciding how the good and bad fairy groups have evolved. As for creating a half-good and half-bad character, perhaps they could be some sort of changeling taken from one group and accepted by the other?




My fairies have portals into their two seperate realms and out into our world. Some fairies live mainly in modern society, because they don't like to be seperated from everyone else, but mostly they live in their fairy worlds. They use their powers (not sure what to call it yet), to hide things from humans that they don't want them to see. They can make them see whatever they want them to see, so no one ever notices anything strange about them. I was considering making my MC a changeling who falls in love with one of the "evil fairies", who is not evil at all. She then realizes that maybe they aren't so evil at all, and has to decide which realm she would like to be a part of. Not sure yet, but atleast I'm getting ideas! lol

You have some good ideas Charlaux, thank you!


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## enchantedsecret24 (Feb 3, 2013)

Oh my goodness, you guys are great! I love all of you ideas, and I think I will be be able to add/change things from all of your great ideas, and come up with something. I have still been stuck trying to come up with the plot of my story, and I think you guys have done an amazing job in inspiring me.  Thank you, thank you, thank you!


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## enchantedsecret24 (Feb 3, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> The seelie and unseelie courts are not restricted to the "Mortal Instruments" series. I think it's actually in some of the original fairy myths but I'm not sure. One of the best places to find out is to read some of those myths for yourself then decide what you want to do with them.




Thanks amsawtell, I think I shall do that! lol I know that the seelie and unseelie courts do go way back, and fairies aren't even actually a big part of the mortal instruments series, but I would like to come up with new ideas I guess. I think it will just make me feel better to just do something completely different. I have no idea what I'm doing. lol


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## Ariel (Feb 3, 2013)

None of us really do, sweetie.  We're bumbling shambling messes.


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## enchantedsecret24 (Feb 3, 2013)

Akoya said:


> This is your story and anyone who picks it up to read will accept the tribe/people/groups of whatever, for what the author, you, has written them as. Not everyone has Elves that act just like the ones from LoTR. Not everyone's main character has a humorous side kick.
> 
> I struggled *A Lot* with this question, how to include everyone's idea of what this type of people should be/act/do. The answer is, you can't. You can pick up a concept here, and another one there. You can throw those in but if you read another book that opposes what the first two said? Do you change the whole story due to one author? Do you follow path made by the authors before you? Or, maybe, you forge your own society and rules. You make something just different enough to be loved in a whole new way.
> 
> ...




Wow, thank you Akoya I really needed to hear that! I know that you are def. right, but sometimes it does get overwhelming trying to fit your story to what people would think is right. I have always liked being a bit of a rebel, and making my own rules so I don't know what I have been thinking! Wow, I think this opens a lot of doors for me in writing. I know that sounds stupid, but I guess I really did just need to hear someone say that so THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! 

Also you have great ideas I think it would be cool to have her meet different people from both sides and then have to choose who she will stand with. Maybe fall in love with one of the "evil fairies," and realize that they aren't so bad after all. Maybe she can someone bring the two sides together once and for all.


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## Akoya (Feb 4, 2013)

It appears that have now begun to believe in yourself and for that I am proud to have been a help.  Nico yanla si to-na means 'have faith in yourself' in my story.  I am slowly creating a language of my own for my Dwarves and Elves to share, and in doing so I have found that I have to repeat the what I told you every time I start reaching for a book that has one in it already.  I can do this, I have faith in myself.  Co nico yanla si co-na.  And so should you.


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## enchantedsecret24 (Feb 4, 2013)

Akoya said:


> It appears that have now begun to believe in yourself and for that I am proud to have been a help. Nico yanla si to-na means 'have faith in yourself' in my story. I am slowly creating a language of my own for my Dwarves and Elves to share, and in doing so I have found that I have to repeat the what I told you every time I start reaching for a book that has one in it already. I can do this, I have faith in myself. Co nico yanla si co-na. And so should you.




That's awesome that you are creating a language for them! I wish I could do the same, but I would have no idea where to begin. lol I have considered making up some fairy language for my book though, maybe just a few lines that could have great importance to the story. Kudos to you though for doing a whole language for them, wish I had that much talent! lol

Hopefully I can continue to have faith in myself Akoya, but it is so hard to do sometimes lemme tell ya. lol You "nico yanla si to-na" as well because you are pretty awesome and seem very talented!


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## Kevin (Feb 4, 2013)

I was just thinking that the 'fae' must have _motivation_, reasons for doing things. For instance, the Queen, why does she live among mortals? Was there some sort of conflict? Starting with their differences from us (history, physical attributes, powers), I think if you go from _why_ they do things, you might get more at who they are.


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## moderan (Feb 4, 2013)

Seelie (or seely) are not inventions of some fantasy writer. They're remnants of Old Scottish folklore. You could very easily find out about them and other groups of "faery people" by simply googling the term. No doubt there are hundreds of authoritative texts on such folks in the blogosphere, and some few from people who are specialists in folklore and actually know what they're talking about.
Faeries are neither good nor bad, as previously noted. They are different from humans. Their lives and aims and psychology are completely alien. Instead of elaborating on something previously done, I'd suggest you do some of the research and strike out on your own.
You might also consider looking into the work of one Arthur Machen, who specialized in Cornish and Welsh interpretations of the fey folk. His take was quite different from that promulgated by modern fantasy writers who are more comfortable with humans in funny shapes.


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## enchantedsecret24 (Feb 10, 2013)

moderan said:


> Seelie (or seely) are not inventions of some fantasy writer. They're remnants of Old Scottish folklore. You could very easily find out about them and other groups of "faery people" by simply googling the term. No doubt there are hundreds of authoritative texts on such folks in the blogosphere, and some few from people who are specialists in folklore and actually know what they're talking about.
> Faeries are neither good nor bad, as previously noted. They are different from humans. Their lives and aims and psychology are completely alien. Instead of elaborating on something previously done, I'd suggest you do some of the research and strike out on your own.
> You might also consider looking into the work of one Arthur Machen, who specialized in Cornish and Welsh interpretations of the fey folk. His take was quite different from that promulgated by modern fantasy writers who are more comfortable with humans in funny shapes.




I have also read everywhere fairies are neither good nor bad, but since it is MY story can't I make good fairies and bad fairies? I mean if that is the way I want it? I don't know maybe I should do something different if thats the route I want to take. Maybe light elves and dark elves? Would that maybe be a better choice?


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## moderan (Feb 10, 2013)

You may of course do anything you wish to, it being your story. I am simply pointing out that the road less taken may be more interesting to traverse both for you and for any potential readers.
You could have Tinkerbell wear combat boots, and Ozzy'd have to believe you.


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## enchantedsecret24 (Feb 10, 2013)

moderan said:


> You may of course do anything you wish to, it being your story. I am simply pointing out that the road less taken may be more interesting to traverse both for you and for any potential readers.
> You could have Tinkerbell wear combat boots, and Ozzy'd have to believe you.



Oook I gotcha...I think. lol Thanks


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## AshenhartKrie (Feb 16, 2013)

-totally ignores every other post and buts in becuase this is an avid interest of hers-
There's actually more than those two courts. There are many others, and they aren't restricted. In fact, many Fae swap between different courts. Then there is a neutral group, which doesn't belong to any court. 
Seelie and Unseelie were terms created by an old folklorist, I believe. Seelie, meaning good, or kind (This is from memory and it's 2am in the morning) and Unseelie of course being the opposite. But the line between the two is very blurred. Generally Unseelie fae are classified by malevolence towards humans. Seelie, on the otherhand, are basically indifferent; they just don't care either way (despite most people thinking that they always help humans. They will of course lend a hand now and then, but sometimes it causes more harm then good.)
I like reading stories about the Fair Folk, so this interests me. Most books I've read are boring and generic, so please don't do the same. (Although the ShadowMagic books were marvellous).


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## moderan (Feb 16, 2013)

You've added so much to everyone's understanding. Thank you.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 16, 2013)

> There's actually more than those two courts. There are many others, and they aren't restricted. In fact, many Fae swap between different courts. Then there is a neutral group, which doesn't belong to any court.


Had to smile a little, in actuality there are no courts, and in fact no fairies, however ...

I have to agree with Moderan, the most interesting fairy folk are not those that are miniature humans, but ones who see the world a different way completely. How would you regard creatures of flesh if you wielded immense power and had comparative immortality? Hubris/? Scorn? At the very least a totally different set of starting values. Would they be pets like puppies, or simply passing ephemera like butterflies?


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## AshenhartKrie (Feb 16, 2013)

Ah yes, but are you sure of that?
Nothing is impossible until it is proven, and as far as I am aware, no one has actually proven that fairies don't exist. 

And to add to that, perhaps humans are nothing but bugs, an annoyance. 
Which is pretty much what you meant by hubris/scorn.


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## Rustgold (Feb 18, 2013)

amsawtell said:


> The seelie and unseelie courts are not restricted to the "Mortal Instruments" series. I think it's actually in some of the original fairy myths but I'm not sure. One of the best places to find out is to read some of those myths for yourself then decide what you want to do with them.



Yes they're in European pre-Christian myths.  Take out the Christian contamination, and you have some very good base material.



Whisper said:


> First, I think you need to get away from the Good Faeries vs Bad Faeries. How are you defining bad?




Why?  Isn't morality a plot device?


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## Whisper (Feb 18, 2013)

Rustgold said:


> Why? Isn't morality a plot device?



I could either answer this here or you could read the rest of the post I made concerning this. Try to guess which option i'm going with.:sunny:


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## moderan (Feb 18, 2013)

Rustgold said:


> Yes they're in European pre-Christian myths.  Take out the Christian contamination, and you have some very good base material.




Spot-on. Repeating what I said, but not everyone is troubled enough to read through threads before replying to posts. 




Rustgold said:


> Why?  Isn't morality a plot device?


Perfectly valid question, imperfectly answered previously, in my eyes. Personal ethical considerations aside, the Magic 8-Ball says "yes", unequivocally. It is a shame that the extremes are so overused by those who know not how to create impact and drama, otherwise. But alas, it is so.
In the end, though, we are talking about the use of fey folk in a fantasy epic-likely to be important to the person who asked the original question, but somewhat less so to the reading public-at-large, bent on rampant consumerism without consideration of the precedent.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 18, 2013)

> Nothing is impossible until it is proven, and as far as I am aware, no one has actually proven that fairies don't exist.


Of course they exist, but not in the world of fact.


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## moderan (Feb 18, 2013)

Their boots, however, exist in the world of fact.


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## dolphinlee (Feb 18, 2013)

It is accepted that it is impossible to prove a negative. So it is impossible to prove that fairies do not exist.

They certainly exist in my house. My husband is often heard to thank the sock fairy for replenishing his sock drawer, the washing up fairy for doing the dishes and the beer fairy for putting new bottles in the fridge. 

To get back on topic. There are legends/stories about the wee folk everywhere in the world. They are just that legends and stories. If you want to establish a new way of thinking about fairies then go ahead.


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## moderan (Feb 18, 2013)

Those are gremlins and brownies that do that


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## dolphinlee (Feb 18, 2013)

No Moderan gremlins are the ones that put a leak in my roof, stopped my washing machine filling with water, blew the motor for my trumble drier, set my toaster on fire and caused my computer to crash.

As for brownies the only ones I know are those that are waiting to get into the Girl Guides.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 18, 2013)

> As for brownies the only ones I know are those that are waiting to get into the Guil Guides.


There are chocolate brownies, they can disappear, and hash brownies, they can make you see things that are not there if you have too many.


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## dolphinlee (Feb 18, 2013)

Olly Buckle said:


> There are chocolate brownies, they can disappear, and hash brownies, they can make you see things that are not there if you have too many.



Is that when you can see the fairies?


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## moderan (Feb 18, 2013)

No, the Police.


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## Olly Buckle (Feb 19, 2013)

That makes me think of ''Artemis Fowl". Mr Colfer discovered a whole society of fairies who had retreated underground and his main character among them is Captain Holly Short of the Lower Echelon People's Recon. unit who keep watch on us, Leprechauns for short. There are as many different fairies as you need for your story.


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## moderan (Feb 19, 2013)

Makes me think of the Gnomemobile and of Arthur Machen.


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## Whisper (Feb 19, 2013)

dolphinlee said:


> As for brownies the only ones I know are those that are waiting to get into the Girl Guides.



Brownies are sooooo delicious, especially when they have a chocolate coating and chock full of nuts…oh wait… 


Edit: BLAST, Ol buckeye beat me too this one.:smurfin:


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