# Questions related to the seasons



## caters (Jan 31, 2016)

This isn't related to the seasons on this planet but rather the seasons in my story. It starts in summer(You can tell because while Lisa is gathering fruit Robin is sunbathing outside and sunbathing outside is associated with summer).

I have 5 questions so far about the seasons that will help me figure out what seasonal holidays to have and when.

1) How long is a year on Kepler Bb? I will be thinking about this both in terms of earth days and in terms of Kepler Bb days(in case a Kepler Bb day is longer or shorter than an earth day).

2) How long is each season on average? Again this will be in terms of earth days and Kepler Bb days.

3) Do seasons ever get extreme? Now with this I am not only thinking in terms of temperature and weather patterns but also in length and the transition phases.

4) How extreme do they get? This is not so easy to answer because it is dependent on what region of Kepler Bb you are in and even if you are only considering 1 region there are still going to be times when records of hottest summer, coldest winter, longest spring etc. are broken for some reason or another.

5) When does each season start and when do the transition phases start? This is easy if I know how long a year is on Kepler Bb.

Currently I know nothing about it, not even the length of the year. This is partly due to the fact that I haven't had to refer to seasons yet in my story.

I do know however that a year on 2 planets can be the exact same length in terms of hours minutes seconds but can be completely different in terms of days.


----------



## Bishop (Feb 1, 2016)

So, I'm not sure _which _Kepler system you're referring to. There are hundreds of them, all with different numerical designations, i.e. Kepler-11, Kepler-186, Kepler-22... Then, which planet within the system? I'm not 100% up on my NASA designations, but I believe they're lettered, so Kepler-22b would be the second planet/body in the system, or whatnot?

That all being said, all of what you're asking is dependent on a number of factors, the most important being the orbit of the planet. It determines how many "days" it takes to complete a single orbit around its stellar body. Days, of course, are relative to each planet. A day on Earth is 24 hours, but that is just Earth. A day anywhere else depends on its axial rotation speed, distance from its stellar body. Seasons are highly, highly variable depending on a long, long list of factors. They rarely present on a regular schedule, and are not planet-wide. Think about "winter" in California. It's not exactly the same as in Wisconsin. It also depends on the planet type, distance from its stellar body, orbital speed, orbital line (elliptical or circular, or whatnot) and can vary intensely. For instance, weather on highly elliptical orbits can go from extreme temperatures from one end of the scale to the other over their "seasons". Some planets may have no seasons at all, with a very rigid circular orbit. 

So, again, I may be able to help more if you get more specific with the Kepler system--I'm not able to find anything on "Bb"... but in case you mean Kepler-8b...

Kepler-8b has an orbital period of 3.5 (approx) Earth days, so around every 84 hours it rotates its stellar body. It's the only planetary body in orbit around Kepler-8, and it's so close to its stellar body that its estimated temperature is somewhere in the 6000K range. So... summers are pretty damn hot there.


----------



## Terry D (Feb 1, 2016)

Like Bishop said, there is no Kepler 'Bb', so you might want to look at your source again. Right now, about all astronomers know about any of the Kepler planets are  the lengths of their years, approximate distance from their stars, guesstimated size and density, and the inclination of their orbits around their stars. We don't know their rotational speed (length of day) nor do we know how inclined their axis of rotation is (that has an huge bearing on seasons.)

Planetary 'days', and, of course, years, can be vary wildly, even in the same solar system. For instance Mars has a day just about the same as ours (only about 20 minutes less), but its year is 687 days long. Venus, on the other hand, has a year just 225 days long, but its day is 243 Earth days long, so Venus has days longer than its years. Axial tilt is also quite variable. Mercury's is almost perpendicular to the Sun (.003 degrees of tilt) while, Uranus is tilted a whopping 97 degrees (it would appear to be rolling around the Sun on its side.)


----------



## T.S.Bowman (Feb 1, 2016)

Bishop said:


> and it's so close to its stellar body that its estimated temperature is somewhere in the 6000K range. So... summers are pretty damn hot there.



That would make the whole sunbathing thing pretty interesting. Lol


----------



## caters (Feb 1, 2016)

Well this Kepler Bb is not actually in a real existing Kepler Solar system. It is in a fictional solar system where there is a double binary star(2 binary stars orbiting around each other) and 4 planets.

Kepler Bb is earthlike and is the size of Neptune.

Kepler B# is also earthlike but is the size of Jupiter.

Kepler Db is mars-like and is part of a binary planet system.

Kepler D# is venus-like and is part of that same binary planet system.

So this solar system is completely different from the real Kepler solar systems both in naming convention and what is in the solar system. Also there is life on every planet from microbes metabolizing iron oxide on Kepler Db to Humanoids on both Kepler B# and Kepler Bb.

I am also assuming that this is in a temperate climate that isn't a rainforest(Temperate rainforests are rare). This is why I have 4 seasons and transition phases. Why do I have transition phases instead of it abruptly going from 1 season to another? Well one reason is so that humanoids can better acclimate to changing conditions before the next season. Another is that there might be cold summers(cold enough for snow) and warm winters which would suggest a planetary inversion has occurred or in the case of the cold summer it could be a volcanic winter and warm winter could simply be that. A winter warm enough that it is essentially an early spring and flowers start blooming midwinter. 

And here is an example where there is a record breaker:

Let's say that the normal high in Region 1(which has a lot of plains and only 1 main river called the Black Sword River) is 100 degrees in summer. Now in region 1 where Lisa and Robin are, their first year together is pretty normal. However the next summer is severe storms followed by drought. Without any water to act as an insulator, the air and the ground both get really hot, the air temperature is up to 110 degrees during the drought. Lisa and Robin don't have enough water to last through the drought. They don't have enough food either. Worst of all Lisa got pregnant during the summer not knowing it was going to be like this.

As you can see this is a record breaker and a really bad scenario. This drought makes most animals migrate to a place where there is more water so they have barely any game to hunt and no domesticated animals. So completely carnivorous won't last them very long nor will completely herbivorous or omnivorous like they usually are.

So that is why I want to answer the year length question first is because all these other questions are based off of that 1 question.


----------



## Bishop (Feb 1, 2016)

caters said:


> Well this Kepler Bb is not actually in a real existing Kepler Solar system. It is in a fictional solar system where there is a double binary star(2 binary stars orbiting around each other) and 4 planets.



And at that point, you're creating a fictional system, so you can create all these factors fictionally as well. Trust me, I write many a sci-fi novel, with many alien planets. Readers take it at face value when you talk about planetary conditions. 

But going from there, you're unlikely to find a "Mars like" "Venus like" or "Earth like" planet in any binary system. Binary systems have very different orbital systems, very different gravitational constants, and very different solar periods. This all will affect surface temperatures, temporal cycles, weather patterns, gravity rating, and a million other living conditions. 

Also if it's the size of Neptune it, by its very definition, is no longer Earth-like. Neptune is fifty-eight times the size of the Earth, which puts a very different set of coefficients in its gravitational constants and rotation speed. Jupiter, on the other hand, is over a hundred and twenty-one times the size of the Earth, and both of these planets are completely different in composition. Neptune is basically a big ball of ice and gas, and Jupiter is basically and even bigger ball of gas and some liquid. The largest theorized habitable planets are super-earths, which are somewhere between Earth-size and what's called mini-Neptune size. Meaning that a planet the size of Neptune or Jupiter that's habitable is currently undiscovered and un-theorized.

Next, if you're naming a new system, a fictional one, "Kepler", you need to stick to the real naming convention. Sci-fi readers are picky, to a fault. If you name it the "Kepler" system and then have "Bb" and "B#" instead of the actual naming convention that exists, you'll get a lot of confused and angry readers. I'd be one of them. I'd encourage you to name it something new to avoid this.

As for the weather effects... there's literally millions of things that can affect planetary weather. Unless you plan on getting advance degrees, I'd not go too deep into it. Your reader probably won't appreciate it either. If the story demands a super-hot, super dry summer that comes out of nowhere, just write it in. The more detail you give trying to make it sound smarter and more accurate, the more difficult it is for the reader to suspend disbelief.


----------



## caters (Feb 1, 2016)

I use a broader term for earth-like in my stories. It is planets the size of earth or larger that have the same gravity as earth and have the same kinds of landforms as earth and liquid water as well as polar, temperate, and tropical zones.

So fictionally I can have a neptune sized planet with these earth-like conditions and thus consider the planet to be earth-like.


----------



## Bishop (Feb 1, 2016)

caters said:


> I use a broader term for earth-like in my stories. It is planets the size of earth or larger that have the same gravity as earth and have the same kinds of landforms as earth and liquid water as well as polar, temperate, and tropical zones.
> 
> So fictionally I can have a neptune sized planet with these earth-like conditions and thus consider the planet to be earth-like.



But it wouldn't be. Mass, size, and/or density of a planet have a LOT to do with its gravitational conditions. There are no recorded Earth-like planets, with livable atmosphere or water conditions even close to that size. Planets the size of Neptune and up are usually gas giants for a reason.

Fictionally, yes, you can say that. But if you put it into the book, anyone with knowledge of this sort of thing (like most of us sci-fi nerds) will reject the premise.


----------



## Terry D (Feb 1, 2016)

caters said:


> I use a broader term for earth-like in my stories. It is planets the size of earth or larger that have the same gravity as earth and have the same kinds of landforms as earth and liquid water as well as polar, temperate, and tropical zones.
> 
> So fictionally I can have a neptune sized planet with these earth-like conditions and thus consider the planet to be earth-like.



Not and have any relationship to real planetary science. You are describing a rocky planet when you talk about Earth-like land forms, and a rocky planet the size of Neptune would have many times the gravitation of Earth (its simple physics).


----------

