# Getting noticed



## Jeko (Jan 3, 2012)

I seem to be having trouble getting feedback for my work in the writing sections (fiction/workshop forums). I see most of the other threads getting loads of replies, but mine get few. Is there some way I could make them more attractive so that I can get more feedback? I really need feedback.


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## Foxee (Jan 3, 2012)

One thing to try is to critique others' works. This will get you known for your helpfulness and you stand a better chance of having them reciprocate on your threads.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 3, 2012)

Okay, so I checked out all the posts you've started. Many of them do have replies, so it's not like you are actually getting ignored. (For the purposes of this thread, I'm ignoring everything in the writing discussion forum, and just focusing on original work you've posted).

The two longer works of fiction that you've posted don't have spaces between the paragraphs or indentation. I see how that happened -- you had it indented in your word processing program, but the internet doesn't deal well with indenting -- here we prefer blank lines between the paragraphs. Since you have neither, everything blurs together and I have no interest in working my way through it.

Your poems are fine, if a little vague, but I'm just very picky about what sort of poems I care enough to comment on.

I am also, to be honest, less interested in giving feedback to you because you're choosing to spam the world with your religion in your signature. Don't think that I'm offended, but also don't think that I'm going to be endeared to you and extra helpful because of it. In my experience, people who feel the need to spam that specific message to strangers have tended to be closed minded and unwilling to listen to suggestions -- which makes me wonder if putting my effort into a full critique is worthwhile. I realize I'm playing very heavily with biases and stereotyping here, but, well, I'm being honest. This has been less of a conscious decision and more of a subconscious habit that I'm only realizing as I write this.

[edit: I want to stress that I'm really really trying not to be offensive here, just completely honest. I don't know you well, but I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.]

Also, of course, there's the very valid point that Foxee made. I'm not sure how much critiquing you've done, but that's fairly critical if you expect others to give critiques back. 

On a side note, if you ever want me to critique something of yours, just send me a PM and I'd be happy to help. I'll never turn down a personalized request if I have the time to spare.


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## dale (Jan 3, 2012)

i personally don't find her sig line in any way relevant. i mean...you have quotes from 2 communist sympathizers
in your sig-line. should i take that as you spamming the board with your political inspirations?


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## Jon M (Jan 3, 2012)

To echo jw's comment, presentation of your writing matters. Reading a large work on the screen is hard enough on my eyes, and large blocks of text are even more difficult.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 3, 2012)

*Off Topic:*



dale said:


> i personally don't find her sig line in any way relevant. i mean...you have quotes from 2 communist sympathizers
> in your sig-line. should i take that as you spamming the board with your political inspirations?



You're right that his signature shouldn't be relevant -- he asked how he could get more responses, however, and I'm trying to be honest about my own subconscious discriminations that may have prevented me from giving feedback previously. Not offended, not saying it should be removed.

I probably shouldn't take the bait, but... two communist sympathizers? My quotes, if you read them, have nothing to do with communism. I'll admit to spamming my musicals tastes -- if that's preventing honest discussion, I'll consider removing them.


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## Sam (Jan 3, 2012)

The site works on a system of reciprocity. If people see that you don't give many critiques, they'll ask themselves why they should give you one in return. You get nothing for free in this world, unfortunately, not even a critique. The problem may be that you need to give more. 

Your replies to past critiques may also factor into the equation. If people have (and I'm merely speculating to make a point here) given you a critique you didn't like and you made a point of stating this, or arguing with them, they may extrapolate that you aren't seeking constructive criticism. Sometimes it's best, if you disagree with a certain critique, to thank the person and take what you need from it. Discard what you don't.

I hate to turn this into a religious debate (every thread eventually does that) but I'm inclined to agree with J.W.. Whether you believe in God and Jesus is your business, but your signature is a little too preachy for my taste. With the greatest of respect, I don't like proselytising, and it strikes me that way. I apologise if I've offended you or your beliefs, but I hope you take this in the spirit it's meant.


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## Rustgold (Jan 3, 2012)

dale said:


> i personally don't find her sig line in any way relevant. i mean...you have quotes from 2 communist sympathizers
> in your sig-line. should i take that as you spamming the board with your political inspirations?



I have to say that when someone attempts to force something onto me I'm not interested in by means of propaganda messages, I'm much less likely to want to help them.
I simply wouldn't help somebody who bashes the bible over my head, which is what the sigs do.  It's so typical of Christians to disrespect us in this way, and then say that we should help them.  Sorry, but it's not going to happen.

So yes, propaganda sigs are relevant.


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## Patrick (Jan 3, 2012)

Rustgold said:


> It's so typical of Christians to disrespect us in this way, and then say that we should help them.  Sorry, but it's not going to happen.



It's interesting how one person's signature can lead to such incredible insights about the whole, rusty. You're a very gifted individual.


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## dale (Jan 3, 2012)

j.w.olson said:


> *Off Topic:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it doesn't. i was just making a point. and i like dylan's music, regardless of what he stood for.


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## Offeiriad (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll make a note to remove anything in my signatures if I come to a point where I want to get any of my work critiqued.

The only point there should be is that if you don't give critiques you won't get them. Period.

Edit: I haven't read any of your work because I don't generally read sci-fi/fantasy/horror. Mysteries and historical fiction are my genres of choice.


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## Kyle R (Jan 3, 2012)

Hi Cadence. I like that name. "Cadence". Pretty, and musical.

So here are my tips to get more responses..

1) Keep your pieces brief, as many internet users today suffer from decreased attention spans (myself included). I've noticed 2,500 and less word counts tend to get more responses than higher word counts. Your writing could be amazing but sometimes people will look at the length of it and move on, because they aren't willing to spend so much time reading something.

2) Double space between paragraphs, for ease of reading. Very few people are willing to trudge through an endless block of text. Spaces between paragraphs give the reader time to "breathe" and allows poignant pauses for comprehension and retension.

3) Give constructive feedback to others. Other writers are just as eager to be read and commented on as you are, and if they like your feedback, they may want to return the favor.

4) If you do want specific advice, give simple, open ended questions so people know what to look for and reply to. Example: "What can I do to make the opening stronger?" or "What do you think of the ending?" The more specific your questions, the easier it is for the reader to formulate a response.

Sometimes an open-ended "What do you think?" can be ignored, because, while the reader may think many things, he/she may not wish to put in the effort to type them all out. But if you narrow the focus a bit, the feedback becomes more managable. "What do you think of my main character?", for example, is something much easier to respond to.

5) Look at the most responded-to pieces and identify the characteristics that make them so popular. Does the writer ask for specific feedback, vague feedback, or none at all? How long is the piece? How is it visually structured? How does the writer respond to feedback? etc..

Best of luck!


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## JosephB (Jan 3, 2012)

OFF TOPIC:



dale said:


> it doesn't. i was just making a point. and i like dylan's music, regardless of what he stood for.



He didn't stand for much of anything. His fans imagined he did based on a few of his songs -- and those were mostly inspired by his girlfriend's ideas and politics. He was perfectly happy to leave all that behind when it suited him. I don't fault him -- he made a lot of great music. But some of his reputation as a poser is deserved.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 3, 2012)

JosephB said:


> He didn't stand for much of anything. His fans imagined he did based on a few of his songs -- and those were mostly inspired by his girlfriend's ideas and politics. He was perfectly happy to leave all that behind when it suited him. I don't fault him -- he made a lot of great music. But some of his reputation as poser is deserved.



To bring this back some distance towards relevancy, I'll go ahead and mention that I quote a line of one of his songs in my signature because it captures the attitude I take towards talking about fiction. I can be polite and complimentary in my critiques, but if someone needs to hear something to improve, I'd rather they hear it now rather than struggle on through years of pleasantries and praise before learning the same lesson and having wasted time. Not that all struggle is a waste, but working together benefits from honesty.

I (and apparently several others) find Cadence's signature distasteful.  And we're allowed to, just the same as he is allowed to keep it as a signature. I would have said nothing, but he asked how to get more critiques. Fair or not, removing the signature would remove a variable pre-biasing me against his work. I realize this is a volatile issue, but I figured my input might help. I'll certainly be more generous toward someone who is respectful towards me in the first place. (Though you'll notice, if you check, that I've also given several critiques to him already.)

That said everything that has been said and condensed wonderfully into a list by KyleColorado is the most important advice. My apologies to everyone for stirring the pot.


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## dale (Jan 3, 2012)

cadence is a man? by the name, i figured it was a woman. knew a stripper who called herself cadence, once.
sounds like a female name. who knows.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 3, 2012)

Check the profile, and the gender says "male."


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## The Backward OX (Jan 4, 2012)

Maybe so, but look at what Wikip has to say:

*Cadence (given name)*

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search 

Cadence
 Origin
 Word/Name
English
Meaning
"rhythm, flow"
Region of origin
United States








Look up _*Cadence*_ in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

*Cadence* is a female given name derived from an English word meaning "rhythm, flow." It has risen in popularity in the United States, where it ranked at No. 214 in popularity for baby girls in 2006, having jumped 745 places up the chart since 2002, when it was ranked at No. 959. It peaked in 2007, when it reached No. 199.[SUP][1][/SUP]


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## j.w.olson (Jan 4, 2012)

Fair enough -- but this is a screen name, not necessarily a given name. I think I'm going to go with what the user typed in his own "about me" section.


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## Tiamat (Jan 4, 2012)

And obviously everything Wikipedia has to say should be taken as law and is therefore closed to interpretation or potential--dare I say--change.  Are we really going to derail this thread so fully to discuss the origin and meaning of a _forum_ self-appointed name?  Seriously?

Anyways, Cadence, having read the piece you posted in the workshop, I'm going to second (or is it third or fourth?) what some of the above posters have said about the spacing.  I didn't mention it in my critique, but that lack of space between paragraphs is incredibly hard on the eyes.  And to further some of the other points made, had you not commented on my piece, I wouldn't have bothered reading yours simply for the spacing.  But since you did comment on mine, I figured I owed you a critique in turn.


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## Jeko (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice.

On my signiture, I have no intention of 'converting' people with it or trying to spread a message. I mainly put it there to remind myself of it constantly (a Christian can often turn a blind eye to what really matters). I might do an experiment and change it to see if that increases responses.
Then again, as a Christian it is my purpose to spread the good new of Christ. Now, that may sound preachy, and I guess it is. But look at it from my perspective; what if my signiture were to bring someone to Christ? That would mean the world to me. I'm not trying to push people to Christ - you can't do that. It's God who works in you when you hear the gospel. 

I have realised how important it is to critique other people's work, and will do so from now on.

My recent posts of my work haven't been spaced because... well, I was a bit lazy at the time. But no more! I shall always space my work out from now on. It does look a bit intimidating all bunched up togehter.

Also, I never knew Cadence was a girl's name. Now I feel a bit odd.

I might write KyleColorado's advice on my wall so that I never forget it. Thank you, Kyle.


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## bazz cargo (Jan 4, 2012)

_Off topic_

Is my signature okay?


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## Aderyn (Jan 4, 2012)

Cadence said:


> .
> Then again, as a Christian it is my purpose to spread the good new of Christ. Now, that may sound preachy, and I guess it is. But look at it from my perspective; what if my signiture were to bring someone to Christ? That would mean the world to me. I'm not trying to push people to Christ - you can't do that. It's God who works in you when you hear the gospel.



The only problem with this is that it sends the message that you think your belief is superior or more 'truthful' than others.  I think it's important to remember that everyone has their own beliefs.  There is enough advertising out there about all religions for people to choose what suits them.  I do not promote atheism (my belief) because I respect that other people will have their own belief systems.  However whenever someone declares to me they are christian I have an undying desire to declare right back that I am atheist, it's like when a mosquito bites you on the leg, you just gotta go slap! :witless:



> I have realised how important it is to critique other people's work, and will do so from now on


 Yes, this is something I need to get back into as well.  The great thing about reviewing the work of others is that you learn more about the writing process, so that it helps your own writing in turn.



> My recent posts of my work haven't been spaced because... well, I was a bit lazy at the time. But no more! I shall always space my work out from now on. It does look a bit intimidating all bunched up togehter


. I made the same mistake when I first posted, but as a reader the spacing makes it much easier to digest, particularly for longer pieces - I'd even go a step further and suggest that you ensure each piece you post for review isn't too lengthy.  I know if it's going to take me a long time to read I am less likely to critique it as I've got a million other things I have to get done in my day too.



> Also, I never knew Cadence was a girl's name. Now I feel a bit odd


 don't worry about it, most people think I'm a guy!


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## JosephB (Jan 4, 2012)

Cadence said:


> On my signature, I have no intention of 'converting' people with it or trying to spread a message. I mainly put it there to remind myself of it constantly (a Christian can often turn a blind eye to what really matters).



Don’t sweat the signature. Seems like it’s perfectly OK for everyone except Christians to express their beliefs or feelings. If people don’t like it, it’s their problem -- not yours.


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## felix (Jan 4, 2012)

Cadence's Signature said:
			
		

> I'm an evangelical Christian. I also like pancakes.




Are we talking about the same signature, or has he changed it? That sounds harmless to me. In fact, some of it sounds delicious. *Ba dum da tsch*


On the subject of getting noticed, from my own limited experience in giving critiques, spacing and length are the main factors, along with how many self-deprecating remarks are in the opening paragraph explaining the issue.


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## JosephB (Jan 4, 2012)

No that's not the sig. It was a little more in your face, about Christ dying for his sins etc. He changed it because someone suggested it might be one of the reasons he's not getting comments on his stories. If someone told me he wasn't going to comment on my work because of my signature, I'd tell him what he could to do with his critiques.


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## felix (Jan 4, 2012)

Ah. 

Well, being honest, I probably wouldn't critique somebody who had that in their signature. Not because I think that it's inappropriate, but merely because anybody who voices a belief of any kind annoys me a little bit. Beliefs are personal. 

But still, I agree, I wouldn't change mine if somebody told me the same thing about my signature.


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## JosephB (Jan 4, 2012)

I might consider it a minor annoyance -- but not enough of one to prevent me from commenting on a story. Bad writing is much more of a deterrent.


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## felix (Jan 4, 2012)

True. And of course there's the fact that the signature is _beneath_ a submitted story, and the only way you'd see the signature is if you'd ready it already...


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## j.w.olson (Jan 4, 2012)

Meh -- how's this for an analogy. I'm a teacher. Say I'm in the teachers lounge, and every time this one math teacher walks in the room he says to himself (but so that we can notice) "Man, English teachers are just stupid. They don't get it. I feel sorry for them. Math teachers are the only smart ones." He does that every day for a month or two.

Then one day when I go to eat my lunch, he's already in there, head down and busy at work. He looks up at me, an English teacher, when I enter and says, "Hey man, I've gotten a bit behind on my work. Want to help me grade some of these tests?"

Sure, he's being polite and everything now, and he might be a great guy. But every time I've seen him for the past month I've noticed that he clearly thinks less of me as a person, so I'm going to tell him no, I have better things to do. This is my free time, and I won't help where I'm not appreciated, even if it's for different issues. Unless I really have a passion for grading tests or something.

--

*The signature really was a very minor point compared to the other advice given*, and if he wants to ignore any critiques I do give, that's fine. And yes, JosephB, I would feel identically toward any atheists with a comparable signature (for what it's worth, I'm not an atheist either.) I'd be equally bothered by someone who shared my faith having a comparable message. Still wouldn't tell any of them, though, unless they asked and it was relevant, as it is in this case (removing it will get him a few more reviews).


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## candid petunia (Jan 4, 2012)

*Off-topic:*

*groan* ​
So Cadence turned out to be a male, and now Aderyn is a female. Any more gender clarifications for us members? :suspicion:





:joker:


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## Jeko (Jan 5, 2012)

> Is my signature okay?


In my opinion, yes.



> The only problem with this is that it sends the message that you think your belief is superior or more 'truthful' than others.


Generally, it is impossible to discuss belief without having a sense of superiority. Many people say to accept everyone's beliefs. But I believe what I believe, and that makes me sure that any belief that does not line up with it is not right. It's only natural. Besides, anyone who says that all beliefs are fine is wrong, because what about the belief that all beliefs aren't fine? Saying everything's equal is noly raising yourself, as you are the one who is declaring everything equal. Hence, you are being superrior, no?

To put it sumply, you can't talk about beliefs without sounding superior. As a quick note, I do not owe any of my faith to my own intellgence. My faith was given to me by God. The problem here lies in perspective, not fact. By saying my faith is from God, I'm sounding superior, aren't I?

To put it even more simply, I give up.



> most people think I'm a guy!


[lie]I never thought that...[/lie]

_______________________________________________________

By the way, I changed my signiture because I believe that I can convey the gospel in a better way than having it under every post I make. This way, I present my faith without making any sort of impact (unless anyone here hates pancakes).


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## j.w.olson (Jan 5, 2012)

Pancakes are fine and all. But don't you think that waffles are just a little better? They get that special crispiness that pancakes usually miss out on, and then there are the pockety-dimple things that hold syrup so well.

But I suppose all breakfast foods should be considered equal, and we shouldn't force anyone to eat or not eat any particular breakfast food. Except grits. You can hate grits eaters. (I'm a self-hating grits eater.)


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## Jeko (Jan 5, 2012)

Pancakes allow for more creativity than waffles, but waffles are generally a better taste experience.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 5, 2012)

That's true! I hadn't thought of that. Waffles are all about standardization and allow very little room for personalizing your breakfast experience and being able to truly express yourself. Down with the imposing tyranny of waffles? Let your breakfast find whatever form feels natural?


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## KarlR (Jan 5, 2012)

I don't believe in waffles.  I won't critique anyone's work who espouses an in-your-face belief in waffles.

Hope nobody's offended by this (except the lousy waffle-eating crowd who have no business posting here anyway....).


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## Sam (Jan 5, 2012)

This is getting off-topic, folks.


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## Rustgold (Jan 5, 2012)

Let's turn this around to look from another direction.
 If I were to put as my sig :

_Quote : "Christianity : An evil cult murdering millions in it's campaign of oppression since AD32."
_or_
Quote : "Christianity : Killing brain cells for 2000 years to worship a primitive fictional cult born in ancient superstition."_

Would you be as willing to give helpful critiques?

The answer to that is a clear & obvious no, of course not.
In fact, I'd wonder whether there's a few crosses being considered against my name for even illustrating this point, which is that pushing things like religion in a sig will harm helpful critique responses.  Religion belongs on religious sites, politics on political sites, writings on writing sites.  Pushing agendas where they don't belong is treating others with contempt, regardless of any self-perceived notion of rightness.


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## Sam (Jan 5, 2012)

This isn't a religious discussion. Those who strongly believe the signature is part of the problem have already voiced their opinion. Whether the OP wants to take the advice on-board is their prerogative. So let's not turn this into _another _religious debate. Please. 

Thank you.


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## dale (Jan 5, 2012)

as far as this thread topic....basically people here give critiques out to those they know take the time
to read and participate with other writers here. that's what a writing forum is supposed to be about....
...interaction with other writers, regardless of their personal beliefs. of course...sometimes atheists can be 
a bit narrow minded and judgmental. lol


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