# I'm heartbroken



## am_hammy (Jul 8, 2016)

As many know, there's been so much turmoil going on in the world and there's been a lot of shootings and racial issues in the US for awhile now that has caught media attention but the last few days has been disgusting. The shooting of the man in Baton Rouge, another in Minnesota, and now at a peaceful protest in Dallas, TX 2 hours ago, there were 11 police officers shot by two snipers. Four of them are dead and several in critical condition/currently in surgery.


I just, I can't even deal with all this sadness. It makes me cry and breaks my heart. It's so heavy and hurts for all the people who are suffering because of this. The recent bombing in Baghdad has the death toll to almost 300 people.

It makes me sick that the world is like this. My heart goes out to all those people and I don't know what I can do, but I hope there's something I can do even if it's so small and insignificant, to help end this insanity.


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## dale (Jul 8, 2016)

it's gonna get worse.


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## am_hammy (Jul 8, 2016)

dale said:


> it's gonna get worse.




It still doesn't stop me from mourning over the situation. It's a sad reality.


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## PiP (Jul 8, 2016)

am_hammy said:


> It makes me sick that the world is like this. My heart goes out to all those people and I don't know what I can do, but I hope there's something I can do even if it's so small and insignificant, to help end this insanity.


If you consider history the world has always been a sick and cruel place, Ash. 

For me the war against terror is not letting the terror enter our hearts and minds and to help others where we can. I remember watching the Syrian refugees on the TV and the reports of their struggle for freedom and the sacrifices they made. It was only when my daughter formed a charity with some other women and I started sorting through all the clothes donations thinking about the families who would benefit that it became a reality for me.

The worse aspect is the starving or deprived children and they could be in our own back yard.

My heart goes out to the families of those who died in this unnecessary shooting and those who are waiting to know if their loved ones will survive.


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## Ultraroel (Jul 8, 2016)

There is also a lot of good in this world.
Try to focus on that instead of on the negative parts. Focus on negative things that you cannot change, has never helped anyone or made them feel better.
Instead, look at all the good people that protest, that fight for their rights and are showing the world that not everyone is out to kill and hurt.

It's easy to look at the negative parts, as it feeds our fears.  but it takes courage to look at the world and try to keep yourself positive.
Being heartbroken for something that is not within your influence only affects your own happiness and brings nothing to anyone else.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Jul 8, 2016)

dale said:


> it's gonna get worse.




It doesn't have to. If we can learn (and I mean all of us) to stop hating and demonize the people we disagree with, maybe the world can be a better place. If we can figure out how to live and let live, to accept people for what they are, and not to shoot specific people (read: cops) for the actions of others, maybe we really can live in peace.

Hate only begets more hate and no one comes out of it happy.

There are so many things I'd like to say but my status here prevents me from expressing the hurt I'm feeling over this and the incidents that appear to have led to this. All I will ask is to not get into a political squabble. Whether you're for or against gun control or anything else, I request, no I beg, that you don't start a debate about it here. This is not the time to take our frustrations out on each other. Now is the time to pray that all this madness will stop.


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## Smith (Jul 8, 2016)

Another thing to keep in mind is that with population increase, as well how easy it is to obtain guns or make an explosive, these things are statistically likely to occur more often.

Then you add the sensationalist media which makes martyrs out of all these nut-jobs, and it seems like the world is falling apart and going into complete anarchy.

As long as the proportion of these events has not increased, then the problem is not getting worse. But I am yet to see anybody research and put together data like that.

What will make it worse, is giving into the fear. Feeding the fear. Mis-identifying the true problem, which isn't weapons, but religious radicals and extremists, and the mentally ill who pose a threat to themselves and others.

There is something you, and everybody else, can do: "Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. It is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love." - Tolkien


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## am_hammy (Jul 8, 2016)

Ultraroel said:


> There is also a lot of good in this world.
> Try to focus on that instead of on the negative parts. Focus on negative things that you cannot change, has never helped anyone or made them feel better.
> Instead, look at all the good people that protest, that fight for their rights and are showing the world that not everyone is out to kill and hurt.
> 
> ...




I totally get what you're saying, and I usually try not to look at the negative aspects of what happens in the world because my anxiety is through the roof anyway, but yesterday I felt bombarded and wanted to speak on the matter. I'm an emotional person and sometimes I can't help when I feel a certain way about stuff like this. Sometimes it's just overwhelming. I'd rather feel a certain way about it for awhile and get over it emotionally so I can look at it in a more constructive and helpful manner than letting it fester inside of me. I'm sensitive so I'm responding to that sensitivity.

yes, I know it does no good for me to cry and be upset, but people died and I found out about it so I'm going to mourn for them and send my thoughts out into the universe.


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## Terry D (Jul 8, 2016)

am_hammy said:


> As many know, there's been so much turmoil going on in the world and there's been a lot of shootings and racial issues in the US for awhile now that has caught media attention but the last few days has been disgusting. The shooting of the man in Baton Rouge, another in Minnesota, and now at a peaceful protest in Dallas, TX 2 hours ago, there were 11 police officers shot by two snipers. Four of them are dead and several in critical condition/currently in surgery.
> 
> 
> I just, I can't even deal with all this sadness. It makes me cry and breaks my heart. It's so heavy and hurts for all the people who are suffering because of this. The recent bombing in Baghdad has the death toll to almost 300 people.
> ...



It's okay to be sad about these things. And it's okay to be outraged. We all should be sad and outraged. As individuals we can't erase all the hate in the world, but we can erase the hate in ourselves. If we do that, and if we live by that, then perhaps we can influence some of the people around us to do the same. It won't be quick and it won't be perfect, but if we change ourselves we will eventually change others. *Be* the world you want to live in. There's no down side to doing that. If I'm right it will influence others and things can get better. If I'm wrong, at least you will know you are doing what you can.


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## Ultraroel (Jul 8, 2016)

What Terry says.
I've always learned that you treat people the way you want to be treated.
If we all did that, most issues would be non-issues. 

Unfortunately, a good measure of people do not have the same insight and either need to feel more important or superior, or resent others for their own sense of inferiority. 
Too bad a lot of people need others to pet them on the back and tell them they are great, or need to bring down others to feel good themselfs..
This is not something of late, it's a human quirk... 

Ego is a good thing, but also a bad thing. 

Anyway.. I agree being outraged and sad is not a bad thing. But put it into good energy, show anyone can make a difference on a small scale. 
I'm always trying to be the best me I can be, try to be a better me everyday..

A lot more people should focus on themselves instead of on others..


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## Terry D (Jul 8, 2016)

It's also as much about doing the right thing as it is about not doing the wrong things. Stand and speak for what you believe. Don't be tolerant of wrong being done just for tolerance sake. All lives matter.


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## Aquarius (Jul 8, 2016)

Please take a look at the following:

'Do Not Despair About The State Of Your World'

With love - Aquarius

* * *​


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## PrinzeCharming (Jul 8, 2016)

Prayers and condolences for the friends, families and communities involved. 

Look, I am not into disclosing personal tidbits on a forum, but I am going to say this. _*Be the change*_. By doing something positive, you're contributing a positive behavior to a sensitive society. Here's the language warning. As I was going into work the other day, a bunch of delinquents noticed me. 

_"Ay, you! Ay, you with the green shirt. Nigga' with the green shirt._ _Damn, you got a bald spot, nigga'." 

_This was only a glimpse of what they said. I ignored the taunts, because silence is the best medicine, but this would have ended differently had I owned something to protect myself. If it were someone else, with more emotional distress, those poor kids might have never had the chance to live again. It's shit like that to cause the shit storm elsewhere. Am I going to commit a mass shooting? No. I am hurt from it. I am white, and they are the other color. The other color blown up on the media for doing wrong. Had I said something, I was afraid I wouldn't be able to go into work. I was afraid I wasn't going to get paid. I even thought to myself, "Could they at least wait until after I punched into the time clock?" The people of today wonder why shit happens. My dad was held at gunpoint at his job which is only a few blocks away._ Inside the building_. He was later threatened by someone at work. They said they were going to kill him. Shortly after that week, I was threatened at my work by the same racial profile. Trust me. The most you can do right now is stay strong and be yourself. Be the positive change you want to see. 


Please, to all concerned, do not send me PM's after this message. I am just letting you know that it's everywhere.


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## escorial (Jul 8, 2016)

You can't put the world to right but you can live a life that makes a difference to someone somewhere good or bad


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## Jigawatt (Jul 8, 2016)

I live and work in Texas. At work today, black and white people shook hands and got along just fine. It was business as usual. Democracy and freedom doesn't mean there is an absence of political and social struggles. Everybody fears they're getting the worst of it. We have racial issues. We have religious issues. We have sexuality issues. We're working on them. Love and compassion always wins, because the opposite means nobody survives.


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## am_hammy (Jul 8, 2016)

I've truly appreciated each and every one of your responses and it's nice to know I'm not alone in my thinking. It's also nice to get a bit of perspective to set you straight because it's true, it does no good to be sad and upset to excess because it doesn't change anything. I also think it's lovely how all of us have expressed our opinions on this matter and it's been peaceful, so thank you all for that.<3


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## aj47 (Jul 8, 2016)

Terry D said:


> It's also as much about doing the right thing as it is about not doing the wrong things. Stand and speak for what you believe. Don't be tolerant of wrong being done just for tolerance sake.



I'll try.  It's tough.  I'll start here.



> All lives matter.



While it has a literal truth value, that statement shows a lack of understanding/empathy with the issue.  It's not that non-black lives don't matter--it's that black folks are being killed (not dying, mind you, being killed) at an alarming rate for no other reason than the color of their skin.  This is a true thing.  And people are attempting to call attention to it in hopes of eliminating it. When you say #AllLivesMatter, you're dismissing this very legitimate issue.  

Somewhere, someone is going to jump to the conclusion that I was offended.  No, I'm dismayed. Without understanding we're not going to get much of anywhere.


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## afk4life (Jul 8, 2016)

It's not my quote, I don't remember where it came from and it's probably something everyone's seen but this basically sums it up:



> I don't want black men shot at traffic stops. I don't want cops shot by snipers. I don't want kids shot at school. I don't want any of this.


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## J Anfinson (Jul 11, 2016)

astroannie said:


> I'll try.  It's tough.  I'll start here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



While I understand the idea, what I find concerning is that only minority deaths are being protested and others are suddenly ignored. We're not going to get anywhere until all lives are considered equal by everyone. We can't change the past but we can shake hands and move forward.


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## dither (Jul 11, 2016)

J Anfinson said:


> We can't change the past but we can shake hands and move forward.




I would venture to suggest, respectfully of course, that it's too late for that, because  we can't change the past, and it's a shame.


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## J Anfinson (Jul 11, 2016)

dither said:


> I would venture to suggest, respectfully of course, that it's too late for that, because  we can't change the past, and it's a shame.



But if we don't put what's happened behind us and start having real discussions about how we can all change (instead of feeling like our side is right and we won't make any concessions), how in the world is anything ever going to change? It'll just be more senseless killing, looting, riots, etc. I feel like I don't understand the world anymore.


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## aj47 (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm not trying to pick a fight.  But it's like a fundraiser for lung cancer--people don't freak out because even though #AllCancersMatter, they understand that this is about lung cancer.  

This happens to be the same kind of deal.  These people are focused on an issue. The idea behind the hashtag #AllLivesMatter is that #BlackLivesMatter folks should not raise their voices. This attempt at silencing is wrong.  Look, nobody said #AllLivesMatter until someone said #BlackLivesMatter. Because until the cry was raised, there was no need to silence it.

You don't go into an Italian restaurant and expect to get sushi.  Or burritos. #AllCuisinesMatter


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## Smith (Jul 12, 2016)

Respectfully, I don't know if the availability of cuisine -- or cancer which has no conscience in who and how it targets -- are the best analogies for racial issues. But while we're at it, lung cancer fundraisers don't shoot themselves in the foot by turning into riots, and half a dozen cops don't get killed because they tried to order donuts at a Chinese restaurant.

Black Lives Matter rubs people the wrong way because of the hypocrisy. It's a movement against the racism committed by a small minority of police, which hopes to accomplish its goal while inadvertently _excluding_ everybody else of _different colors_. Keep in mind this is during a time, which we live in, of double-standards having run amok on the backs of SJWs and college "safe spaces"; a time of many individuals using their own color as a means of victimizing themselves, whilst they turn around and stab other people in the back, calling them a racist.

#EndPoliceBrutality. That will get your goal accomplished for everybody. No need to use videos of black people being beaten or killed by police with zero context, just to get the sheeple riled up. No need for the biased news to broadcast nonstop, misleading videos of black people being beaten or killed by police to incite fear and hate. No need to use skewed numbers that don't take socio-economics into account, in order to push an underlying agenda.

Ironically, thanks to those reasons, movements like #EndPoliceBrutality or #AllLivesMatter would probably die. Because those news stories wouldn't be entertaining or captivating to fill 24/7 time slots with, and they don't assist in achieving secret political objectives.


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## aj47 (Jul 12, 2016)

Actually, the sniper was not a protester.  Prior to the shooting, the officers and protesters were chatting and having their pictures taken together, etc.


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## Smith (Jul 12, 2016)

Ah yes, while the shooter did tell the police his actions were race-motivated, he also said he was not affiliated with any group (including Black Lives Matter). Thanks for the correction.

Also, apologies to ams for hi-jacking her thread with my argument. I will take it to my blog from now on where it would be more appropriate, instead of here on another member's thread which was designed as a means of their catharsis. Sorry about that.


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## dither (Jul 12, 2016)

J Anfinson said:


> But if we don't put what's happened behind us and start having real discussions about how we can all change (instead of feeling like our side is right and we won't make any concessions), how in the world is anything ever going to change? It'll just be more senseless killing, looting, riots, etc.



Yep.

Who knows where it will end?


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## am_hammy (Jul 12, 2016)

Smith said:


> Ah yes, while the shooter did tell the police his actions were race-motivated, he also said he was not affiliated with any group (including Black Lives Matter). Thanks for the correction.
> 
> Also, apologies to ams for hi-jacking her thread with my argument. I will take it to my blog from now on where it would be more appropriate, instead of here on another member's thread which was designed as a means of their catharsis. Sorry about that.




You're totally fine Smith. I see no malice or argument and I found your post to be concise and informative so thank you for that. Part of the catharsis is being able to understand all aspects of the issue and educate yourself and as others have said, to be the change that you want to see, so we have to start somewhere even if it's through discussion of opinion so thank you.

Everyone has been really nice in this thread too which is great.


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## J Anfinson (Jul 12, 2016)

astroannie said:


> I'm not trying to pick a fight.  But it's like a fundraiser for lung cancer--people don't freak out because even though #AllCancersMatter, they understand that this is about lung cancer.
> 
> This happens to be the same kind of deal.  These people are focused on an issue. The idea behind the hashtag #AllLivesMatter is that #BlackLivesMatter folks should not raise their voices. This attempt at silencing is wrong.  Look, nobody said #AllLivesMatter until someone said #BlackLivesMatter. Because until the cry was raised, there was no need to silence it.
> 
> You don't go into an Italian restaurant and expect to get sushi.  Or burritos. #AllCuisinesMatter



I'd like to address these points further once I have time if the OP doesn't mind. I think it's great to have civil discussions.


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## dither (Jul 12, 2016)

J Anfinson said:


> I think it's great to have civil discussions.





i totally agree.
The keyword here is " civil. "


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## Greyson (Jul 12, 2016)

Civility is important, but I think what really matters is discussion. Sorry to jump in here with semantics, but this ties deeply into the problems facing us and the world I feel. Debates can be civil. Arguments can be civil. In fact, even with fallacies being thrown around in either of these contexts, they can still be considered civil. I feel, quite deeply as I said, that for anything to get better we need to learn to discuss things again. 

Everyone has an opinion, to think otherwise would be like saying the sky is purple on a regular basis. Opinions are great, they help us sort out the mess that is life and put abstract questions into buckets and sections to clarify what we can. But opinions right now have become bloated and inflated by everyone's own ego. An opinion no longer is merely _just an opinion _-- which is to say that most people do not like the idea of being proven wrong. A discussion is where we have people with opinions of all shapes and forms sit together and inform one another of what they're opinion entails. No one is objectively right nor wrong. 

What we are really lacking now is this next part: you are not trying to convince anyone of the validity or invalidity of an opinion. Too often now I see people speaking their minds to push an agenda, to "convert" you to their form of thinking. That power should not lie in the hands of the orator, but rather with the listener. A discussion provides information, allows all sides to be heard, and then gives each and every person the freedom to decide what they believe is true based on what was stated. This doesn't mean that we get the "right" answer every time, but it does mean we avoid the name calling, the anger, and the hatred that comes when someone doesn't agree with our view and we can't understand why we can't _convince them to. _Anyway, this was a bit of a ramble and I apologize for it. I hope there was something worth-while in here for us to go on. If not, then I'll add this: "Spread hope like fire, spread love like violence” (quote credit to Smith cause he takes all the good quotes).


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## Deleted member 56686 (Jul 12, 2016)

While I appreciate the desire for a civil discussion, I must remind everyone of the no debate policy. So far, I am heartened that the thread hasn't gotten emotional and I'm hoping we can continue that trend. 

I wonder if it may be better to discuss by way of PM or maybe you can start a group for those that would like a civil discussion on this. Who knows, I might even join.


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## dither (Jul 12, 2016)

Greyson,

The keyword here, and i make no apology for picking them out, is " agenda ".

"Opinion " is much too strong a word for such discussions.

I am, at least i hope i am, more inclined to offer a viewpoint/perspective or merely an observation and willing to consider  re-consider or re-evaluate my feelings.

Just be open to the possibility that you might be fully aware of the facts.


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## Greyson (Jul 12, 2016)

True enough. Keeping an open mind is the most important thing no matter what you discuss. That and making up your mind for yourself.


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## dither (Jul 12, 2016)

Interesting thoughts 615.

It's a tough one.

We ought, as reasonable human beings, be able to discuss such mainstream issues in a mainstream forum but, generally speaking, it would appear that we are not. Not being facetious here. Very recently i've seen abusive behaviour in a similar thread. Such things can cause a great deal of upset, destroy lifelong friendships and could, ultimately , poison WF.

615,
i leave it to you and the management.


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## aj47 (Jul 12, 2016)

The difference between a discussion and a debate.  A debate is about convincing people to change to your position.  A discussion is about exploring other positions.


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## The Green Shield (Jul 12, 2016)

The world has always been this chaotic. We're just more aware of it due to high-speed news.

As Mr. Rogers once said, always look for the helpers. For every cruel person, there's at least a dozen good people.

I assure you, there are PLENTY of black and white folks who get along. Some even have parties together, or even marry and start a family. The news only show the angry blacks and whites throttling each other because that sells more views.


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## dither (Jul 12, 2016)

astroannie said:


> The difference between a discussion and a debate.  A debate is about convincing people to change to your position.  A discussion is about exploring other positions.



Astro,
that distinction had escaped me. How right you are, very well put and thank you.


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## dither (Jul 12, 2016)

The Green Shield said:


> The world has always been this chaotic. We're just more aware of it due to high-speed news.
> 
> As Mr. Rogers once said, always look for the helpers. For every cruel person, there's at least a dozen good people.



12/1?
So many?
REALLY?
Well? 
If you say so.


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## aj47 (Jul 12, 2016)

dither said:


> 12/1?
> So many?
> REALLY?
> Well?
> If you say so.



In my personal experience, there are very few people I've had to cut out of my life for cruelty.  Out of many people who are friends and acquaintances.  I don't know the ratio--this may be proctonumeracy, but it reads well.


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## am_hammy (Jul 12, 2016)

J Anfinson said:


> I'd like to address these points further once I have time if the OP doesn't mind. I think it's great to have civil discussions.





I don't mind. I know that if anything does get out of hand it will be dealt with accordingly. I don't want BS in this thread and so far I haven't seen any so have at it ^_^


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## Smith (Jul 13, 2016)

dither said:


> 12/1
> So many?
> REALLY?
> Well?
> If you say so.



A big part of it is perspective. If you look for the worst in people, you're going to find it.

You can always catch a super-hero on a bad day. You can always find the best in an evil villain.


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## dither (Jul 13, 2016)

Smith,
you're probably right.
I am a pessimist.


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## The Green Shield (Jul 13, 2016)

dither said:


> Smith,
> you're probably right.
> I am a pessimist.


It's true. If I try hard enough, I could make a minor flaw in an otherwise decent person out to be the worst stain on that person's conscience and make him/her out to be a really cruel person. There are people who are willing to forget all the horrible stuff genuinely awful people have done to hold up their view that the awful person is actually a good person. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to alter your perspective on someone for good or ill.


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

Also, keep in mind that while a lot of people are "good", not all of them are helpful, thanks to something known as the Bystander Effect. This phenomenon can be best understood in the following video which talks about "The Helping Experiment". Skip to 1:00 if you want; the first minute is just him putting it into context.

[video=youtube;s7MTM4BKZ_E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7MTM4BKZ_E[/video]

In general though I think this video about why "anecdotes trump (how punnily true that is) data" and the cons associated, can be applied to the topic of this thread as well. People are far more likely to believe a story than just data.


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith,

i'd play your vid but i don't have sound.

As for "bystander".

Where some people might, and DO, look the other way, i'd be more inclined to run away. I can't get involved. I just can't.

Maybe that's why i can't allow myself to form attachments.

Who knows?


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## Ultraroel (Jul 14, 2016)

As a bystander I've had a few times that I stood and looked and did nothing.

I felt so incredibly ashamed and wrong afterwards, that this is not gonna happen anymore. 
In all cases I'm trying to be the one who helps, whether it's an old lady struggling to get into the bus, or a completely drunk person that can't walk.. 
My girlfiend likes it, but also dislikes it..


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## The Green Shield (Jul 14, 2016)

OK, let me just be brutally honest with y'all. Even though I do believe in the stuff I posted in this thread, there's a portion of me -- a significantly great portion that harbors a deep distrust of humans. It believes:

• We don't care about people unless it somehow involves us.

• We only wait until the person's dead before we start gushing our heart out for them.

• We only wait until there's a horrific tragedy where numerous people die before we start acting like humans.

• We all have some secret, ulterior agenda/motive and what we show is just a ‘mask’ we hide behind.

It doesn't want to believe that humans can be capable of great good, instead it justifies its own beliefs by stating that they're just the mere exceptions to the rule. The funny thing is, it expects _all the other humans_ to be perfect, sinless angels while it conveniently forgives and forgets all the flaws and screw-ups _I _have.

Why is it so difficult to be humans. :[ We're the most complicated, confused species on the planet. If there were some alien life observing us, they're probably pitying us.


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

The Green Shield said:


> OK, let me just be brutally honest with y'all. Even though I do believe in the stuff I posted in this thread, there's a portion of me -- a significantly great portion that harbors a deep distrust of humans. It believes:
> 
> • We don't care about people unless it somehow involves us.
> 
> ...



Such are the gifts and joys of not being a hive-mind.

There's a lot of complicated explanations I could give to why we don't pour out our feelings until a person dies. Ultimately, it's because... well, they're gone. You hear the usual "I wish I had more time with them" or "they had so much to live for" or "I wish I'd said I love you the last time I saw them". It's often a regret of not having shown enough appreciation for the time you did spend together.

Or, sickeningly, it's sometimes a ploy to get likes on Facebook.

With celebrities -- let's say, musicians -- it's because their music has effected us so greatly, and we never got to pay them in kind for it. And when they're gone, it's too late. And then you have all the memories flooding back of a concert you went to, perhaps, or of just driving around with friends listening to those tunes.

You are right that one of the most difficult things to do, is to do something with no personal reason behind it, because that's a bit of a paradox. It is possible, though, to do something for no personal benefit.


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## Ultraroel (Jul 14, 2016)

The Green Shield said:


> OK, let me just be brutally honest with y'all. Even though I do believe in the stuff I posted in this thread, there's a portion of me -- a significantly great portion that harbors a deep distrust of humans. It believes:
> 
> • We don't care about people unless it somehow involves us.
> 
> ...



Funny. I am a big optimist and see the world like this:

- Anyone gets my trust untill he's proven untrustworthy.
- Everyone deserves a friend, a friendly word or at least empathy, no matter the circumstances. Everyone has a story and that story can explain behaviour very well.
- There will always be people who want to do bad things, I do not want to judge my opinion of everyone based on these few people. 
- We all have our ulterior motives, but in the end everyone wants to be happy in their way and theres no need on stepping other peoples motivation.
- Live and let live, there is no need to interfere with other people's believes and ideologies..


I know, people who have seen my posts probably think i'm a mean, pessimistic person. I just have always been about bringing forth the best in people, even if they don't want.
Regardless what people think, some people need a strong, confrontational tone to see what they are doing. In most cases, I apply this when people doubt themselves or undermining their own confidence.

In the end we all wanna be happy.

Edit: I've been in a lot, a lot of shit.. and it's how people deal with shit, that defines them.
I've decided I wanna be a positive color in the atmosphere, instead of a cynical and unapproachable person. 
I myself wish I had more people like that around myself when I was struggling with myself, my place in the world and accepting myself for who I am.


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## The Green Shield (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> Such are the gifts and joys of not being a hive-mind.
> 
> There's a lot of complicated explanations I could give to why we don't pour out our feelings until a person dies. Ultimately, that's because... well, they're gone. You hear the usual "I wish I had more time with them" or "they had so much to live for" or "I wish I'd said I love you the last time I saw them". It's often a regret of not having shown enough appreciation for the time you did spend together.
> 
> ...



Oh believe me, I love that we're all so different from each other. You have your own viewpoint of life with your own experiences and I have my own which is good. Very good.  Keep doing that, humans!

Just... _stop being dicks to each other, people. Please? I know you can do better. Danke. <3
_
And to be honest, I think it's really unfair that my cynical side (and really, any cynical person) to be so dismissive to humans. I'm always a champion of “a few rotten apples don't make the whole bunch bad” when it comes to humans. Sure there are cruel people in this world, some who would gladly fuck you over for their own gains but...there are a hell of a lot more people who are just decent. 

I believe Anne Frank herself summed people up well: “People are basically good.” And I agree.



Ultraroel said:


> Funny. I am a big optimist and see the world like this:
> 
> - Anyone gets my trust untill he's proven untrustworthy.
> - Everyone deserves a friend, a friendly word or at least empathy, no matter the circumstances. Everyone has a story and that story can explain behaviour very well.
> ...


If I could like and thank your post 1,000 times I would. 

Speaking of which, I'm planning to do a Random Act of Kindness this weekend. Go to the library and slip in a $20 bill in a random book in the fantasy shelf. And leave a note saying: “Wow! You've found money! How lucky you are! Spend wisely! From, A Fellow Reader”


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

The Green Shield said:


> OK, let me just be brutally honest with y'all. Even though I do believe in the stuff I posted in this thread, there's a portion of me -- a significantly great portion that harbors a deep distrust of humans. It believes:
> 
> • We don't care about people unless it somehow involves us.
> 
> ...



Yep,
i'd go along with that.

We need an "agree" tab.

No way can i "like" your comment but i totally agree with it.


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## Ultraroel (Jul 14, 2016)

Once people die, the bad things and the annoyances are forgotten and no longer relevant. 
The good side and the good aspects become memorable instead of those tiny things you hated, but did not care enough about to fight about.
All of a sudden, or maybe not, this person is gone and then the realization hits what you will miss of this person and even annoyances can become a good memory.

I think that's why people start praising dead people, cause the lesser parts of this person is no longer important.
It's the overall positive vibe that is


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

dither said:


> Yep,
> i'd go along with that.
> 
> We need an "agree" tab.
> ...



Spin that around on its head. Maybe the fact that, most of the time, people only do something for another person in order to achieve their own gain, could be a good thing. "Treat others how you want to be treated" comes to mind. That's a win-win situation, and all because you're doing something for another person that you would like to be reciprocated.

One of the big problems is complacency. We think people will be around forever. We think we'll be around forever. We go day to day living comfortable lives of routine. We get caught up in our every day lives, and our own troubles, and through selfish-disconnect we forget about kindness, compassion, and understanding. Until something happens, and that reality check reminds us life is fragile.

But you wouldn't want to go around expecting everybody to die either. The idea is just to accept. Live in the moment.


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith,
i'm sorry but i tend to treat people as i would expect to be treated and that's probably where i'm going wrong but there it is.

Although that's not entirely accurate. I try, at all costs and where-ever possible, to avoid interaction with others. Leave well alone i say.

I don't hold out much hope for reciprocation, i'm sorry. People will be,,, whatever.


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

dither said:


> Smith,
> i'm sorry but i tend to treat people as i would expect to be treated and that's probably where i'm going wrong but there it is.
> 
> Although that's not entirely accurate. I try, at all costs and where-ever possible, to avoid interaction with others. Leave well alone i say.



Then you're living a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you know where you're going wrong, don't just willingly keep going there. That's silly.


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> Then you're living a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you know where you're going wrong, don't just willingly keep going there. That's silly.



It's the " old pair of slippers " scenario. 

I leave alone and, generally speaking, i'm left alone.

Easy,  my way feels safer and more secure. No limbs to traverse.


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## bdcharles (Jul 14, 2016)

The Green Shield said:


> OK, let me just be brutally honest with y'all. Even though I do believe in the stuff I posted in this thread, there's a portion of me -- a significantly great portion that harbors a deep distrust of humans. It believes:
> 
> • We don't care about people unless it somehow involves us.
> 
> ...



I think problems set in when we expect humans to live up to these standards, while perhaps not living up to them ourselves. I will put my hands up and say that I have done that; of course I have, both sides of it in fact. Take this morning: at my daughters' school, a little girl died today (or perhaps last night) after a long illness and complications and what-have-you, and she was quite severely disabled so it was always on the cards, but - do I care? I'm not thrilled and I have spared their family some thought (as with this post) but neither is my day blown out. Examine how you feel and you may come up with something similar. The question is whether this makes us bad people.

There are some that might suggest it does but again, if you ask them the same question as above, about whether they care about this little girl, you might get this sort of gushing that professes love undying for a total stranger. That irks me because it seems terribly false, and makes a mockery of genuine care while painting me as a dreadful individual in the process for not behaving in the same way. Aside from that being untrue as far as I can ascertain, it helps no-one apart from the person doing the browbeating, which is why I feel it's false. If they are sad they would help rather than create more issues. The best I can say about it is that maybe it works for them but not for everyone. So, why don't we care as much as we might like to?

What I found helpful was to understand why these traits exist. For them to exist they must serve some purpose, right? Or at least not be a great detriment. It's very easy to blame stuff - the media, modern living, Donald Trump, whatever - but it goes deeper than that if we want to understand the exact mechanics. I suggest it is in fact perfectly normal not to get overwhelmed by grief at every child's death because if we did, we as a species would become rapidly unable to function. I imagine we wouldn't be at the top of the food chain and would quite possibly have died out long ago, much less take care of those close to us. Imagine if I rushed over to comfort the family of the little girl in their moment of grief and got fired from my job in the process, making my own family struggle more, as well as probably unsettling the family somewhat with my unsolicited attentions. I would like to imagine that this girl's family have people close to them that can take that on, and if not I am happy to donate something or do anything that is asked but - things are finite, and I have to pick and choose.

And there's another thing - "those close to us". Why is it that when five police officers are gunned down there is an outcry but when three hundred plus people go up in smoke in the Middle East we swap our facebook profile pics for a day and then it's business as usual. Because they are close to us - and by "us" I mean the west, where I live, and can best speak for. I cannot reasonably expect people in Iraq to be as bent out of shape as those in Dallas or the USA are, about the events there, simply because humans are tribal, and group-oriented; it is essential to our survival to be that way and the mechanics of that are, among other things, proximity and common ground things such as language. I don't accept that that is "bad", any more than rain is bad, unless, like anything, it is taken to extremes for some destructive, agenda-based purpose, as you say. I further suggest that people who repeatedly say it is "bad" are, at best, barking up the wrong tree (hence my post) and at worst looking to boost their own public image at the expense of others, again, for survival, something which is at the very fundaments of what humans do.

Deep breath. Submit.


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

^Couldn't have said it any better than bd. Just learned something myself; thanks man.

---



dither said:


> It's the " old pair of slippers " scenario.
> 
> I leave alone and, generally speaking, i'm left alone.
> 
> Easy and my way feels safer and more secure. No limbs to traverse.



If you're satisfied with that, there's nothing wrong with it. Just know I'm always willing to go out on a limb for you.


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Just trying to stay safe Smith.
It works for me. No it's not ideal, of course it isn't but who's life is perfect?


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

dither said:


> Just trying to stay safe Smith.
> It works for me. No it's not ideal, of course it isn't but who's life is perfect?



And who lives their life in a bubble? ^_^


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> And who lives their life in a bubble? ^_^



Some people do...


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

More people than you might think.


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

What a shame! There's a whole ocean around those bubbles!

Here's a couple favorite quotes from books I'm currently reading.

"Never was anything great achieved without danger." - Niccolo Machiavelli

"Always in a moment of extreme danger, things can be done which had previously been thought impossible." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

A life with no danger is a life unlived.


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

But there are sharks in that ocean.


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## escorial (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> What a shame! There's a whole ocean around those bubbles!




don't burst his bubble man.....


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Aint no one gonna do that Escorial.


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## Smith (Jul 14, 2016)

dither said:


> But there are sharks in that ocean.



And booty-


err, treasure!


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> And booty-
> 
> 
> err, treasure!



The risks are too high Smith. I'm sorry.


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## Schrody (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> What a shame! There's a whole ocean around those bubbles!
> 
> Here's a couple favorite quotes from books I'm currently reading.
> 
> ...




I was literal

[video=youtube;4CFPdUAj41Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CFPdUAj41Y[/video]


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## The Green Shield (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> "Always in a moment of extreme danger, things can be done which had previously been thought impossible." - Field Marshal Erwin Rommel


You magnificent bastard, Rommell.  

But yeah, lately I've learned that while we can't often change how other people act or what they believe, we can make sure we can be the best we know we can be.


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## escorial (Jul 14, 2016)




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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Smith said:


> What a shame! There's a whole ocean around those bubbles!
> 
> Here's a couple favorite quotes from books I'm currently reading.
> 
> ...



Well, i've unlived over 60 years. It'll do.


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## Ultraroel (Jul 14, 2016)

Pfffff never too old to learn.

Also, hiding yourself from others and such. We are not solitary by default and it seems you have been going through a lot of trust-issues.
I have the same, but I step out of my comfort zone on a daily basis.

The one advice that changed my life for the best was:

"Don't be a victim of other peoples choices, instead make your own choices and be captain of your own ship" 

I realized people with heavy issues. (a short summary, My mom told us we weren't worth anything for 12 years straight, threatening to kill herself cause of us. Then we went to a family where we were smothered by care. etc.. _
Are often prone to see themselves a victim of the situation. 

Yes, something happened. But you have a choice. you always have a choice. ALWAYS. Whether you think not, you do.. And making choices will teach you that failing isn't bad. 
Being hurt, isn't bad.. it makes you more prone to make better decisions next time.

It's not what happened to you. It's how you deal with it.

I have the idea Dither that you isolate yourself cause you've been hurt by people you trusted.
I've done the same a long time, but I've decided to make my own decisions, also with people and that trusting takes a lot more courage.
Courage I want to have, cause I wanna live my life with my head held high and it's worth being hurt for once a while.
Once you lose my trust though, it's gone.. forever.

I have little patience with people who don't want to see they are the creator of their lives, not other people.
Unless you are so passive you never make decisions, then other people will force you into their decisions - that's also a decision.


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Ultraroel said:


> Pfffff never too old to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sorry but i have to disagree, respectfully of course. Now can we get back to the bigger picture please?


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## The Green Shield (Jul 14, 2016)

*MOD NOTE: OK, folks, let's get back to the topic at hand before I am forced to do something nefariously bad to this thread. Let's not do that, yes? Let's focus on the bigger picture. 

Not sure if it was veering off-topic, but just a friendly reminder. <3*


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## Greyson (Jul 14, 2016)

Back to more of what was originally being discussed (I hope), let's bring a little philosophy into the mix. Cause I'm annoying like that. So, what was being discussed was the idea that humans are, as we might say, "naturally evil." This notion of people being egoistic, narcissistic creatures has been in the making a rather long time and was put into practical thought by Thomas Hobbes in his leviathan of a book _Leviathan _(see what I did there? I can funny too). This basically stated that humans, on an individual level are inconsiderate creatures who will do anything to keep ahead of one another. Thus, we find the most stunning quote on human nature from Hobbes to be his description of what our lives are like when we live according to our nature: "_"No arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death: and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.”_

On the other side of the spectrum is Locke, who believed in the idea of _Tabuleau Raza_, or a “blank slate” of human behaviors. What this means is that, unlike Hobbes, Locke saw humans as fresh canvases at birth. We were neither good nor bad, rather we were merely nothing. Over time, based on who we hung around with and what we saw, our _tableau _would gradually fill out to create our ego. Whether we were hedonists, egoists, enlightened egoists, etc. all depended upon our own choices. 

These are the two conflicting ideas being tossed around above, and they are purely opinion. We can give examples and speak on how one might be better than the other all we want, but they are two _enormous_ schools of thought that cannot be tackled in this setting. What might be more relevant in this discussion would be how we interpret these two. Should we accept only one side, and ignore the other as wrong? Or should we take them both into account and try to make something of the two combined? 

Hobbes suggested we have essentially a monarchy to deal with the problems of people, after all it’s better to have only a 50/50 shot of being abused by your leader. Locke, on the other hand, suggested a more democratically led government. In the United States, we have opted for a Lockean model. Perhaps we have misjudged human nature, but is it better to give up freedoms for safety under a monarchy, or would we rather risk run-ins with these bad people but retain the most of our freedoms we can while still being in a society. 

I apologize for the length of this, but I hope it steers the conversation away from individuals (Also this could have been MUCH longer lol). Let me know if there are questions on anything I said, I did not go too into detail, and I look forward to your thoughts!

*Deep breath*


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

I suspect that many of society'y problems stem from fear and insecurity. Which really shouldn't be an issue in this day and age.


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## Greyson (Jul 14, 2016)

Many of our most base actions and thoughts stem from fear, and this was the explanation behind the state of nature for Hobbes. However, I think that this idea of fear can also extend to _anxiety _of what is new or what we do not know. Or even greater, we can look at Maslov's hierarchy of needs. In the modern world we live in, most of us can check off the list for basic needs such as security. But there is a level for "love and friendship" (essentially) and the lack of this can lead to intense anxiety and fear, which can lead to distrust among people -- from what we can assume. 

There are many articles circulating right now calling this age "The Age of Loneliness" and I wonder if maybe we are focusing too hard on the lower rungs of Maslov's hierarchy, and as such neglecting the things that we have developed the least. I can link the article if anyone is interested, by the way. Just let me know


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

That's makes a lot of sense to me Greyson.

Also i think, technology is moving at such a pace that the ordinary joe isn't coping very well with it and,ultimately, feeling left behind.

You cannot imagine, maybe you can, how terrifying it can be to switch on a computer. I know, i've been there.


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## Aquarius (Jul 14, 2016)

dither said:


> Smith,
> 
> As for "bystander".
> 
> ...


Some say love –
It is a river that runs the tender reed,
Some say love –
It is a razor that leaves the soul to bleed,
Some say love –
It is a hunger, an endless aching need.
I say: ‘Love –
It is a flower and we its only seed.’

It’s the heart
Afraid of breaking that never learns to dance,
It’s the dream
Afraid of waking that never takes a chance,
It’s the one
Who won’t be taken that cannot seem to give,
And the soul
Afraid of dying that never learns to live.

When the night has been too lonely,
And the road has been too long,
When you think that love is only
For the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter –
Far beneath the bitter snows –
Lies the seed that with the Sun’s love,
In the spring, becomes

The Rose.

Amanda McBroom

[video=youtube;XJtLHtffZvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJtLHtffZvw[/video]​


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## Ultraroel (Jul 14, 2016)

Regarding your Maslow theory.

I think the need for social interaction is still there, but Maslow had never anticipated a way to communicate with everyone across the world in a heartbeat, while you are alone behind a device.
The need for love and friendship is still one of the most important parts of this pyramid. I just think we might want to add: "Sincere and deep love and friendship" Not a message for a bday cause a website reminded you.
I think the internet has opened the world for anyone, but also closed the real contact part for many of us. 
This is a reason why I do not want to be hooked to my phone or computer

 Also, the internet allows us to see what others are doing, or saying they are, and compare it to our daily life.
Most of us will realize our life is boring compared to others. Unfortunately, most of those, will not realize that these pages are carefully crafted to give you the impression that they are happy.. in no way is a online page a gauge on how someones life really is.

Maslow has given us a good grip on the idea, but technological advancement has made it outdated..


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## dither (Jul 14, 2016)

Ultraroel said:


> Regarding your Maslow theory.
> 
> I think the need for social interaction is still there, but Maslow had never anticipated a way to communicate with everyone across the world in a heartbeat, while you are alone behind a device.
> The need for love and friendship is still one of the most important parts of this pyramid. I just think we might want to add: "Sincere and deep love and friendship" Not a message for a bday cause a website reminded you.
> ...



Some fair points there Ultraroel.


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## Greyson (Jul 14, 2016)

I can't disagree, what you say is true. But the question becomes "what qualifies as deep, sincere love and friendship"? We have found that there are connections formed over the internet and through phones and such, in fact on this very forum I have made friends, one who I keep in regular contact with and play games with etc. Would you say that this could, eventually, qualify as a deep friendship? And what of long distance relationships that are held together with technology? 

As I said, I agree with your assessment, but I can't fully agree to your recommendation until we are able to clarify what it entails.


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## Smith (Jul 15, 2016)

Definitely brings up a good point for debate. Along with Greyson, over the years I've become friends with a guy a few years older than me in Canada. I've lost touch with him but we had a lot of good memories back in the day, playing Minecraft and later Company of Heroes. I also met my German friend Robin through Company of Heroes, and I still talk with him. We're looking to find another video game we can play right now, but we're both a little stubborn in our tastes.

A big problem with internet relationships is how easy it is to lie. Relationships are built on trust.

When it comes to love and friendship, there is a very important physical aspect. This is partially why it might be important for many of us who develop these online relationships, to see what the other person looks like, or have a voice chat and hear each other talk. It doesn't "feel" real, even though technically we know *somebody* is behind the other account, and behind the other computer. But once we spend enough time and hit these aforementioned milestones, you reach a point where you can say "you're a friend I've never met in person".

This concept isn't new. Pen-pals have existed for a very long time. I've also connected well with Alan Watts and George Carlin and Christopher Hitchens, even though unfortunately those individuals have passed. But they live on in YouTube videos and in their books, and the inspirations they've given to light the torches of others.

We have role-models that we've never even met. That we don't truly know. Famous actors, musicians, writers, poets, businessmen and women, you name it.

---

I guess the point I was trying to make, before I went off on a couple tangents, is that the hierarchy of needs forgets to mention the word "physical". This doesn't even have to refer to "contact", although it can and usually will, but it can also mean just the presence of somebody. "I see you there, you're not behind a screen, I can hear you with my ears without using speakers and without you talking into a mic, and thank God I have some mints on me."

But what Ultraroel said about Facebook and other social media is spot on. In a way, it makes me question the purpose of social media. I feel like we could all go without 75% of the shit that gets posted.


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