# I often wonder...



## Sunny (Sep 12, 2011)

Would I have decided to try and get my book published had I known that sooooo many people were trying to do the same thing? I had no idea that there were so many people writing out there. I started plinking away on my computer and thought "_hey, this is pretty good." _And I made up my mind right then that I wouldn't stop until I was published. Now I see it's not as easy as I thought it was going to be. I thought _sure, just send it out to a publisher and they will look at it and say "Wow! We must have this."_ I finally finished my book after hundreds of hours of re-writes and thought _now, how do I send this out?_ Only now do I see that I was a total fool . Not only are there so many people fighting for the same small spot to be published as me, but it also seems that I wrote a paranormal romance book like every other Tom, Dick and Harry. *sigh* :-({|=


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## larryslater (Sep 12, 2011)

You sound like a friend of mine who writes religious devotionals. For years she has written a one page weekly devotional for her church bulletin. They are good and people always told her she was a good writer. She had several articles published in small religious magazines but no real money. I finally convinced her to self-publish and sell a book of her writings to her fellow parishioners. I had self-published on CreateSpace so I suggested she choose it. Since she has very little knowledge of using the computer outside of writing I did the actually layout and cover art. She got a book done before Chrisitmas and had it available on Amazon within a few days. She was able to sell enough to her fellow parishioners to more then pay for the work I did for her and donated most of the rest to a favorite charity. Sure she is not a "Best Selling Author" but she has a book for sale on Amazon and has made money with her writing which is unfortunately rare among writers.

I would suggest you do the same and then you can share it with your family and friends. Get some experience and write more. Do some speaking to others who also write. Get your work out there and don't depend on someone else to say what is marketable or not.


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## Sunny (Sep 12, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. It's crazy to think of the odds of getting an agent unpublished or getting published unagented. A 4% chance is what I read and that's with a unique idea that isn't over done. I started writing what I did because I love the genre, never realising I was going to become determined on getting it published. Now I've started dreaming of my book on shelves everywhere and I feel there's no turning back. I guess I'm in the same boat as many others and will just have to keep trying.


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## BobbyKing (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi Sunny
*Don't give up.*

I completed two e-novels, self-published on smashwords.com and actively doing my own marketing every day - through forums, social networking, etc..:adoration:.. 

My marketing approach is this: I may not get everyone to like or enjoy my novels, but I focus my efforts on finding those who enjoy reading my type of books.  This is the key.  Who are they? Where are they?  That's where my efforts are focusing on. And I visit forums like writingforums.com to get new ideas to improve my marketing.

With the number of smartphones users going into millions and millions, and connectivity around the globe getting easier and cheaper, your 'fans' out there are waiting to hook up with you!

God bless!


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## Winston (Sep 13, 2011)

At least you have chosen a genre that is in demand.  Sure, you're competing against a bunch of other writers, but at least there is a commercial market for your work.

I write hard science fiction.  The only interest in that style is YA, soft sci-fi (fantasy) and "steampunk".  Still, I will write what drives me.  You write what moves you.  You do the best you can, learn and adapt.  But you can't change who you are.  

Eventually, some agent will be smart enough to see the merit of your work.  If you keep putting yourself out there.


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## Sunny (Sep 13, 2011)

You're replies are very encouraging. I am glad that I finally decided to start talking to other writers. Thanks. 

I never did know what "steampunk" was, I just know that I wasn't writing it. What is steampunk?


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## Winston (Sep 13, 2011)

Wikipedia and I have been best buddies for years...

Steampunk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Short answer:  It's style over substance.  

Conform everything to Victorian era English settings.  Have your characters use nonsensical, inappropriate items (huge mechanical computers, hot air balloons etc.).  Dress them up in stylish leather.   Use a lot of gears, iron and brass in things.  
Oh yes, and include some steam driven stuff.


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## Sunny (Sep 13, 2011)

That sounds so different from anything I've ever read. Interesting.


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## TWErvin2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Sunny,If you don't submit your work for representation/publication, there is no hope of success in getting your work published.Get it in the absolute best shape you can, research and target the proper agents/publishers, and send them exactly what they ask for in a submission package.Good luck. You're correct, it isn't easy. But that doesn't mean it's impossible.Terry


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## WriterJohnB (Sep 16, 2011)

I agree with Terry. I've queried agents for several novels, had a brand-new agent for a while, and never got a "serious" shot. BUT - My daughter did a young adult romance and had several agents call her within a week. So I think it might be because I don't write novels that fit any particular category. It's not about writing quality, sometimes, but what the agents think is salable.

After exhausting that route, if nothing happens, google romance publishers. You'll find dozens of "second-tier" publishers. They don't pay advances and they often set novel prices too high, but you'll have the fun of seeing your name on a book cover. I did that with 3 novels, including Wolfwraith (see below)

After that, you can go the self-publishing route. I've done that for my last 2 novels (historical fiction, which interested no agents at all) and it's been okay. (see "...and Remember that I Am a Man." below)

 Of course, I still dream of that moment when a major publisher or film producer contacts me to offer a mega-bucks contract, but I mostly just enjoy writing.

Take care,

JohnB


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## Sunny (Sep 16, 2011)

TWErvin2 said:


> Sunny,If you don't submit your work for representation/publication, there is no hope of success in getting your work published.



That's exactly right! I even smiled when I got my first rejection. It just felt good knowing I was doing this thing. I don't let the rejections bother me; I know it's all part of the process. 
:joyous:


WriterJohnB said:


> It's not about writing quality, sometimes, but what the agents think is salable.



I think that's so true. I've read that on a lot of agent and writer blogs. It's sometimes hard to keep in mind though when you get rejection letter after rejection letter. I've got 6 rejections so far, so it hasn't stung too much. I know it's gonna be a long road. Your daughter is very lucky, congratulations to her. I'll keep my fingers crossed that we both hear some good news from an agent one day!! :joyous:


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## Tatham (Sep 19, 2011)

I feel that the publishing route is not long off for me. I've written a book, and am currently editing it for the 'who knows' time. But I am so dedicated to it and it is my dream to see people reading it, and to see it on the shelf. From there spawn more dreams of sequels and TV/film interpretations, but let's get the first one done before I get carried away. 

It's a tough market. I'm reminded every day. At the same time I am determined to change my life around, to get into this kind of industry and away from the one I am currently in. I am extremely unhappy with where my life is going right now, so to dream and follow my ambition is the only thing that really holds it together. I just wish I knew more people, outside the online world of course, that is as passionate about these things as I am.


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## Sunny (Sep 19, 2011)

Tatham said:


> I just wish I knew more people, outside the online world of course, that is as passionate about these things as I am.



Tatham, I feel just like you of course. That's why I came to this writing forum. I was driving my friends and family crazy with _my book this, my book that._ Asking them questions non stop, and for me, for some reason, getting someone to read my book and take me seriously has been rough. Most people think _yeah sure, you've written a book. Mmm Hmm. _I don't think they believe it will get published, until it does of course. That doesn't bother me though. I have enough enthusiasm and belief in myself to over-ride any of that. 

Keep doing what you're doing and believe it in. If you don't try, nothing will ever happen. It's going to be a long, long, road. I'm still waiting for the day when someone just requests even a partial! lol


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## Tatham (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks Sunny. It's nice to know others are in the same boat. I know literally nobody with the same passions as me outside the digital world. All I want to talk about is my book and get a little confidence boost, but when presented with that topic people are at a loss for words. They don't know what to say other than 'what's it about' followed by a plain nod. Getting someone to read my work is difficult, and when I do the responses aren't as constructive as I'd like them to be. 

I've posted the short beginnings of a fantasy/sci-fi-esque story I'm working on next to my other champion project. It's in its most earliest form but I had to get a little critique to see how my writing style is recieved. Took a while but it was nice to get some feedback. Turns out my first person POV story telling needs work, but I'm happy that I've got something to work on. It's nice to be a part of a community that are as passionate about story telling and reading as I am.


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## Sunny (Sep 19, 2011)

I think we all need a confidence boost. I have one very good friend who also writes, but she is not into it as much as I am. I told her about everything I've gone through and am going through at the moment, trying to get someone out in the agent world to take a look at my book. She gave up right then, saying there is no way she could go through with it. She said it's too much work. She's fine with printing a copy for her friends and family! I guess we don't all have the same passion for our writing. 

I've just thrown my hands up, and say to ___ with you if you don't want to read it. I guess believing in ourselves just has to be enough sometimes. I've had my book finished for months and months and I'm still waiting for someone to start reading it. When I ask "have you started it yet? I get the reply "no, I've just been really busy". 

I think all criticism is valuble, even the words that hurt. We learn from it, making our writing only that much better! Always remember though, one persons opinion is just that, their opinion.


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## eraser (Sep 19, 2011)

Writing is easy. Selling writing is hard. It's a business and like any other, it takes time, patience and work to learn all the ins and outs. Even then, success is certainly not guaranteed.

If your goal is to be traditionally (commercially) published: keep working - keep improving - keep submitting. Often, like the tortoise and the hare, the race is won by the one who endures.

Good luck. (Luck never hurts.)


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## indiewordsmith (Sep 21, 2011)

Getting published can really be challenging especially if you're considering traditional publishing. However, I believe your material is great and good to go, you can consider self-publishing your book. There are professional credible publishing services providers who can help from designing your cover to marketing your piece.


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## eraser (Sep 21, 2011)

indiewordsmith said:


> Getting published can really be challenging especially if you're considering traditional publishing. However, I believe your material is great and good to go, you can consider self-publishing your book. There are professional credible publishing services providers who can help from designing your cover to marketing your piece.



Yes, self-pubbing is always an option -- a very poor one if you're trying to flog fiction. No one who considers him/herself a serious writer should consider self-pubbing fiction unless/until they've exhausted every agent and commercial publishing option available. 

Yes, I've heard the stories of the 11* people who self-pubbed novels, made money, and their books were picked up by a commercial publisher. But we don't hear a lot about the 10,895,237* (and counting) self-pubbers who sold fewer than 100 books.

If you're only in this business to see your name on the cover of a book and play at being An Au-Thor, go ahead and self-pub. The more folks who do that, the fewer unsalable mss will be clogging up the desks of agents and publishers. Which increases the odds for those who are truly serious about becoming "real" authors.

* All figures pulled out of my butt but based on many years of experience in the writing/publishing world.


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## Sunny (Sep 21, 2011)

*indiewordsmith*, Thanks for saying that you think my material is great and good to go. I really appreciate that! I've done some research on self publishing, and I do think that it does work for some people. I even know of a published author who couldn't get the last two books of her series picked up by the same publisher as the previous two books, and has since decided to self-pub them. Great for her! She'll have a lot of fans ready to buy the books up fast!

:flower:
*
eraser, *I have decided, like you said, to exhaust all avenues first. I'm patient and can wait it out. I've only just begun to send my query out to agents at this point. I haven't even looked into publishers who except mss from unagented authors yet. One writer that I know personally has recommended her publisher for myself, so I know I will mention that to them if I end up going that route. Who knows, it might help.


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## eraser (Sep 22, 2011)

Sunny, glad to hear it. Good luck.


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## m alexander (Sep 25, 2011)

I've seen many reports of writers refusing publishing deals so to publish themselves, one unknown writer even refusing a 0.5 million dollar offer from a big publishing firm.  Other reports I've read is that publishing is in a bit of a mess at the moment, what with the internet, amazon and the means to self publish being readily available for everyone.  Books sales from the internet are steadily increasing every year, and traditional methods of book selling via publishers, shops and stores are decreasing as each year passes, so agents and publishers are not taking on as many writers as they once used too.  Only what they see as being a guaranteed success is what they will take on.
If you cant get a publishing deal as soon as you want one you may be better off looking into self publishing.
I'm working on 3 books, all non-fiction, a psychic, spiritual and supernatural genre, a personal experience UFO title and one that details my many experiences with authorities being how the tax payers dont want them to be.
Before beginning my books I wanted to be published, but after researching the self publishing option I'd now prefer to be self published.
To get my first book on Amazon in digital format would cost me a little less than £500 with a similar amount or double that owed to an editor till sales begin, to get a paperback copy on amazon and elsewhere on the net would cost me appx. another £2000 for printing of 1000 copies in either China or India, which I'm planning on letting digital sales fund that for me.  Being on state benefits while writing my books has given me no financial backing to self publish and I dont want to go to a bank or firm for a loan.
I've checked amazon for UFO titles and was dismayed to find more than 4000 titles, but this could be a good thing and/or a bad thing, 1, the market is big enough for that many titles, 2 there is a lot of competition.  But after reading the free pages of UFO books available in amazon I feel confident with my work.  Most of the UFO books available in there are not personal experience like how mine is, and the ones which are arent as insightful as mine is.
Check online sales places and check through the titles you're book will be sold with, read the free pages available and if you're not confident you're book will do good being sold alongside them titles research the different genres and work on a new book with a USP (unique selling point)  Theres also the option of giving a book for free on the internet while working on the next title, it generates publicity and if good enough would be buyers of you're next title.  Its how many people in business became millionaires in business, by first giving products away for free so to get people interested in their wares.


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## Sunny (Sep 30, 2011)

m alexander said:


> I've seen many reports of writers refusing publishing deals so to publish themselves, one unknown writer even refusing a 0.5 million dollar offer from a big publishing firm.



*m alexander, *Why, oh why, would a person refuse a half million dollar offer as a new writer? Do they suspect they will surpass that amount in sales by themselves? Strange. And, with agents and publishers not taking on as many people as they used to, is unsettling... if it's always been hard to get an agent, doesn't this make it next to impossible? How would they know it's a guaranteed success from a new writer? That's kind of tricky, isn't it? 

I've thought about self publishing, and frankly, it scares me. How would you get word out about your book? Not just posting a link on a site here and there. I mean, really get you're work out there like an agent or publishing house can do for you? I guess self publishing does beat waiting on rejections, however! 

Good luck to you, you've clearly looked into what is the better choice for you! I wish you lots of success. :thumbl:


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## Scarlett_156 (Sep 30, 2011)

> I finally finished my book after hundreds of hours of re-writes and thought _now, how do I send this out?_ Only now do I see that I was a total fool . Not only are there so many people fighting for the same small spot to be published as me, but it also seems that I wrote a paranormal romance book like every other Tom, Dick and Harry. *sigh*



Well, look at it this way:  You did not have to find this out the "hard way" which is by submitting your stuff over and over again and having it rejected over and over again, and finally starting to view your efforts and your work as something that is (are?) not good enough.  OR you did not submit your work to the wrong agency and have it stolen from you (it does happen).  OR you did not get swindled by a fake "agent" who is really offering an editing service and has no special ability to get your work published, but is just taking your money. OR you did not submit your work to someone who replies by telling you it's totally awesome, and can you come in and sign a contract? and you do in great haste, thinking it's too good to be true--and it is, and you end up spending the next few precious years of your life trying to figure out how to get out from under your legal obligation to a publisher that does nothing for you. 

You learned an important lesson without having to bleed any.  You have to admit that's a good thing.  Your original perception of yourself as someone talented and special is still intact, and your work is still worth doing.  They only thing you are being discouraged by at this point is feeling overwhelmed at finding your work is not all that unique.  It might still be really good, but it's not as unusual as you thought; there's gonna be competition. 

Forewarned is forearmed.  You have an opportunity--a "grace period" let's say--to work on the craft of writing while your self-esteem is still relatively untarnished.  The information you have gained can only help you. 

(PS--most people who start books never finish them, so you are already way ahead of most writers who merely "want" to be published.  That is also something you can capitalize on!)


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## moderan (Sep 30, 2011)

Sunny said:


> I've thought about self publishing, and frankly, it scares me. How would you get word out about your book? Not just posting a link on a site here and there. I mean, really get you're work out there like an agent or publishing house can do for you? I guess self publishing does beat waiting on rejections, however!



The marketing is the key. I would imagine you'd need to be very creative. One former poster sold his books at a local car wash. I've sold chapbooks and cassettes at concerts, when I was in a band. You can sell things right from your website, distribute business cards, put up signs, billboards, videos, advertise your wares the same way professional marketers do. The thing is that the pros have deeper pockets than you do, and while they don't necessarily have more skills, they have more _practice_.
eraser is absolutely right as far as how self-publishing is _perceived_. Go ahead and pop into Lulu. I did yesterday. I scrolled through the sf list while I was there and had a couple bucks. Can't say anything about the writing, because I wasn't moved to investigate any-but the ad copy is just awful. Flat, boring, blah. And the titles? Battle this, elf this, wizards of the skies unite kinda gobbledygook.
That's why self-publishing is seen as the final option.
The writing is secondary. That I imagine it to be the bastard child of Stephenie Meyer and Cordwainer Bird would just rub salt in the wound.
That said, a number of people here have self-pubbed books, and some of them seem to write a pretty good stick, judging from the quality of their posts. There's been a lot of discussion here in the past, mostly in the now-defunct New Media section of this forum (that it isn't here anymore is also testament to how that nascent wing of the art of fiction is seen), about guerilla marketing tactics, and how to challenge the big publishing houses.
It may be the wave of the future. Many claim it is. But nobody's got it figured out yet.
There are end-arounds. You can garner enough subscribers to a website property that you can approach an agent about handling the manuscript, based on that number. But you need to be able to get the word out to do it.
It's doable...I mean, half-bright bloggers have gained commercial success. But it's a spin of the wheel at this point.


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## Sunny (Sep 30, 2011)

*Scarlett_156, *You are so right with your comments. But I try to do research on each agent I send my query to. I check them out as much as I can, (ex. Preditors and Editors) if it's an agent I don't recognise the name of. I spend hours researching what agent I should send my query to. The first agents I sent it to were the ones I found in the books I own. Most authors mention their agents in their acknowledgments, so that has been very helpful for finding ligit agents. I don't really worry about someone stealing my ideas. If I have such a hard time getting an agent to take on my book, good luck to the person who steals it and can get it published when I can't. I just wish I knew if it was my plot that is getting my rejections, or my actual query letter. They don't say, they just say "Not for us". Very helpful. lol

*Moderan, *Not only do the publishers have bigger pockets and more practice, but that's what they do full-time. I don't know how a person continues to work full time, write manuscripts, market themselves and try to have a life at the same time. It sounds exhausting just thinking about it. Although, self publishing is a great idea for the writers who are good at writing, and haven't been lucky enough to be published the traditional way. At least someone gets to read their work, whether they become the next Stephanie Meyer or not.


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