# Don't try for the home run



## squidtender (Jun 22, 2013)

Stephen King didn't make it until his fourth novel, Carrie. George RR Martin had to take a dozen swings (four novels and many collections) before he hit it. Dan Brown knocked it out of the park on his fourth, as well . . . it's hard not to envy the Authors who crush it on their first at bat (Stephenie Meyer, I'm looking at you), but don't bother--it's like buying the winning lottery ticket while being struck by lightning. While our odds are slim at being traditionally published (let alone making a career out of it) it seems to me that one of the big keys to writing is persistence. You can't give up after one, or two, or ten . . . 

Have you considered that you'll be in this for the long haul? That maybe you'll make it, but it won't be for another twenty years?


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## dale (Jun 22, 2013)

yeah. but i'm at least gonna TRY for the home run every time i'm at bat. it might end up being a single. it might end up being a triple.it might end up being a foul ball that kicks back and knocks me in the head.....but i'm gonna try to knock it out of the park every time.


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## Dictarium (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't know if Stephanie Meyer "crushed it" on her first at bat. I think the infield may have all spontaneously had their legs broken and she was allowed to freely run the bases unopposed. But no matter.

I don't consider myself, by any means, a professional, semi-professional, or even amateur writer. Hobbyist is more like it. Would it be awesome to be a "writer" one day and have that be my main source of income? Totally. Is it plausible? Probably not. But if I were to endeavor down that path, I would definitely not be dismayed by not hitting a grand-slam on the first bit of rubbish I could manage to eek through a publisher's filter. That's madness. 

Also, to add to the bank of slow-to-start authors: Fitzgerald did Gatsby on his third go, Twain wrote Sawyer as his 11th published work, and Poe didn't publish "The Raven" until 18 years after his first published collection.


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## FleshEater (Jun 22, 2013)

I played baseball from age 5 to 15. As I got older, every swing was to line drive it as hard as I possibly could. Swinging for the fences the coaches called it. To this day, I still believe in swinging for the fences. If you're not going to try your best, then why do it at all. I think what is more important is what you do when you fail. When I didn't hit a home run in baseball I still ran as hard as I could, not letting the failure slow me down. 

King was swinging for the fences on every novel before Carrie. But all he was getting was singles, doubles, triples and foul balls. But, the point is he was still going for the home run, in fact, I'd say in his desperate position he was going for the grand slam. 

I'm sure even Dictarium being a hobbyist still tries his hardest when he writes. I think the overall message should be try for that home run. Whether you succeed or fail, there is much less disappointment if you've given everything you have.


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## patskywriter (Jun 23, 2013)

Actually, Stephanie Meyer hit a weak pop fly that fell into such an awkward spot that she was able to turn an easy "out" into an inside-the-park home run.


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## Leyline (Jun 23, 2013)

I think the squidster may have formulated the thread title wrong here. Nothing horrible about that, we all do it. _Try_ for that outta the park hit every time, of course. Just don't expect it.

And that's every time you sit down to write, no exceptions. 

I _finished_ a hundred stories before I ever thought I should try and sell one. I wrote a hundred more before I ever achieved that.

You just have to keep writing, folks. Just keep putting one word after another.

You'll get better and better, I promise!


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## ppsage (Jun 23, 2013)

In twenty years, I'll be dead. And still below the Mendoza line.


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## dale (Jun 23, 2013)

Leyline said:


> I think the squidster may have formulated the thread title wrong here. Nothing horrible about that, we all do it. _Try_ for that outta the park hit every time, of course. Just don't expect it.
> 
> And that's every time you sit down to write, no exceptions.
> 
> ...


 yeah. i kind of figured he may have just meant "don't give up". i gotta admit, though.....i don't know if i'll be able to have that kind of patience. the 1st short story i wrote got accepted for publication. i consider that a single. my 1st longer work just scored me a contract with a small publisher. i consider that a double. this novel i'm now putting the finishing touches on? i admit, i'm expecting to knock it out of the park with this one. i'm expecting to score an agent. if i don't? i'm gonna be heart-broken, but not quite throwing in the towel. i won't give up yet. i'll write one more. but if that one doesn't win the game? i'm probably gonna break the bat over my knee and play hockey or something.


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## Kevin (Jun 23, 2013)

dale said:


> yeah. i kind of figured he may have just meant "don't give up". i gotta admit, though.....i don't know if i'll be able to have that kind of patience.


 One day at a time, baby.   Otherwise it's just too overwhelming and I'd quit.


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## Sam (Jun 23, 2013)

The thought of being published never entered my head when I started. I wrote for fun. As I've alluded to many times, my first four novels (and parts of the fifth) were horrible. It wasn't until numbers six through nine that I started to take serious notice. I could have sent any of them to a publisher. They were written well enough to have been accepted. But they were the latter part of a series and wouldn't have made sense on their own. So I finished the series and decided to rewrite the first four from scratch. Number ten is the one which was accepted for publication. 

That seems a lot of work -- and it was -- that may not apply to everyone. That's true. The point is, however, that it takes time. Not many people can produce a best-seller with their first go -- the same way they couldn't hit a home run the first time they stepped up to base. It takes practice and commitment, otherwise you'll be swinging for the fences and hitting foul balls.


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## squidtender (Jun 23, 2013)

I meant that you should sit down to write the story . . . the bestseller part will happen or it won't (like you should hit the ball, the home run will happen or it won't). But thanks for correcting me, Leyline.


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## Jeko (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm on my eighth WIP so far. I haven't ever finished a WIP, but from each one I've learnt something really important.

I don't care if WIP eight or WIP eighty gets published - all I know is that my ideas have become more and more marketable, and my style more and more effective at conveying a story. As long as I keep improving, I should be able to make something useful out of these years of writing.


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## JosephB (Jun 23, 2013)

Knowing that my first two or three novels probably won’t see the light of day, I’ve decided to save time and effort and just do them half-ass. Maybe I’ll knuckle down on number four. Of course, I’m fully prepared to give up at any time. Even though I’m not really trying, this writing thing is a lot harder than I thought it would be.


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## ppsage (Jun 23, 2013)

This emphasis on power hitting is usually misplaced. Hitting for average is almost always more important. Okay, if you play in that Baltimore band box, then makes sense to swing away. And it's stupid to ignore the short porch at Yankee stadium. But even Prince shoots for the opposite field gap at Comerica Park. Pitching's more important than hitting anyway. Fielding is for aficionados only, if you're building a team to win, forget about it.

(And if you're writing a metaphor, maybe consider the wider implications.)


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## JosephB (Jun 23, 2013)

I love baseball metaphor -- that's one of the reasons I like listening to games on local radio:

Hey (Your Team) fans, if you have a plumbing problem, don't bring in a rookie for the job. Call the winning team at J&J Plumbing. Our fully trained and experience technicians cover all the bases -- and hit it out the park every time. So for big league performance at minor league prices, call J&J Plumbing today!!!


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## shadowwalker (Jun 23, 2013)

ppsage said:


> This emphasis on power hitting is usually misplaced. Hitting for average is almost always more important.



I don't know. Maybe if more writers went for power hitting instead of average, there wouldn't be so many discussions about 'bad' literature. :wink:


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## ppsage (Jun 23, 2013)

Right, you don't know. Hitting for average requires a good knowledge of fundamentals and applying them appropriately to the situation. Swinging for the fences uses generic formula to achieve rare success, while usually striking out.


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## jayelle_cochran (Jun 23, 2013)

squidtender said:


> Have you considered that you'll be in this for the long haul? That maybe you'll make it, but it won't be for another twenty years?



I'm well aware of that.  Like everyone else, I want to be successful.  I don't expect to ever be an overnight success story though.  The way I see it, even over night successes aren't achieved overnight.  For all I know I may never reach the point where I'm a successful author.  But, I'm OK with that.

I would love for my writing to turn into a career that I can make an actual living off of.  In truth, if I ever do get to that point then it won't be for a long time.  That said, I don't see any reason not to try.  The way I figure it, if my writing and plots are good enough then after book 8 I might begin to be happy with my sales.  I have no expectations of reaching the New York Times Bestseller's List even though that would be amazing.  

All of that said, I'm trying for the home run.  I'm reaching for that amazing hit that will knock the ball out of the park and win the game.  I'm doing what I can to improve my writing and put out the best novels that I possibly can.  Whatever comes from that I'll be happy with because I know I did my best.  

*hugs*
Jayelle


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## OurJud (Jun 23, 2013)

Simple fact is, if I ever 'made it', it would be pure good fortune. I don't try hard enough, I give up easily, I hardly ever finish anything and I'm riddled with self-doubt and a brain that won't function most of the time.

I write creatively becasue I don't have a choice, not because I'm hoping to be published. I _used_ to hope I'd be published one day, but not any more.


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## J Anfinson (Jun 23, 2013)

I say swing for the fence. Even if it falls short, maybe you'll figure out why and learn from it so that you'll make it the next time you're up to bat. Right now I'm feeling pretty good about my WIP, and sure it's going to sting if it flops, but I also know I'll learn something from the process, and my next will surely be better than the last.


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## JosephB (Jun 23, 2013)

Kevin said:


> One day at a time, baby.   Otherwise it's just too overwhelming and I'd quit.



Really, that's a pretty good way to look at a lot of things. Like John Lennon said – "Life is what happens when you’re making other plans.”


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## shadowwalker (Jun 23, 2013)

ppsage said:


> Right, you don't know. Hitting for average requires a good knowledge of fundamentals and applying them appropriately to the situation. Swinging for the fences uses generic formula to achieve rare success, while usually striking out.



Well, personally, I'd rather go for the fence and have a few home runs than end up stuck at second most of the time. At least I'd be giving it my best shot each time. And _that _I do know.


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## OurJud (Jun 23, 2013)

I think the original question is going to get lost in this baseball analogy if you lot aren't careful :lol:


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## Hunter56 (Jun 23, 2013)

Home run? Heck I'm going for the grand slam!


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## InkwellMachine (Jun 23, 2013)

Equating writing to baseball is like equating thermodynamics to badminton. When you're standing at the plate, bat in hand, you have have but one real goal--hit the ball as far as you can. Of course it is _something _of a science for professional baseball players who know their limitations and know that swinging for the fence would be ridiculous, but you get the point. In professional baseball, batters want to hit as far as they can to allow more bases to get covered. 

That's nothing like writing.

Writing is not hit or miss. Writing is not "knock the ball as far as you possibly can." Writing is curiosity and wandering, discovering, creating on whims and with extended purposes. Patrick Rothfuss did not write _The Name of The Wind_ to be a bestseller--he wrote it to tell a story. That should be the intention whenever you create anything--to _create it_, not to _sell _it. You don't learn to make good pottery by going to business school, and you don't write a good story by writing what will sell.

It's funny that my admonition is almost in tow with the original post of this thread, because I'm trying to contradict it. Nevertheless, I say forget the possibility of writing a bestseller and just write your story. That's the surest way to write something worth reading. Just write your story.


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## JosephB (Jun 23, 2013)

Hitting a home run or hitting it out the park is a common, generic metaphor for success. I think you’re taking it just a bit too literally.


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## InkwellMachine (Jun 23, 2013)

True. I wouldn't have responded that way to the original post, but a half-dozen people poured into the thread and used a dozen baseball metaphors that I didn't think translated well, so that's mostly what I'm responding to.

Also, I was using the dissimilarity between baseball and writing to make a point.


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## Jon M (Jun 23, 2013)

InkwellMachine said:


> Equating writing to baseball is like equating thermodynamics to badminton. When you're standing at the plate, bat in hand, you have have but one real goal--hit the ball as far as you can. Of course it is _something _of a science for professional baseball players who know their limitations and know that swinging for the fence would be ridiculous, but you get the point. In professional baseball, batters want to hit as far as they can to allow more bases to get covered.
> 
> That's nothing like writing.
> 
> ...


Swing and a miss! Strike one!


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## shadowwalker (Jun 23, 2013)

I go for 'bestseller quality' because doing anything less is just not worth it. Whether there's a snowball's chance of actually being a bestseller is beside the point.


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## JosephB (Jun 23, 2013)

Please -- no more ball metaphors.


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## dale (Jun 23, 2013)

InkwellMachine said:


> That's nothing like writing.Writing is not hit or miss. Writing is not "knock the ball as far as you possibly can." Writing is curiosity and wandering, discovering, creating on whims and with extended purposes. Patrick Rothfuss did not write _The Name of The Wind_ to be a bestseller--he wrote it to tell a story. That should be the intention whenever you create anything--to _create it_, not to _sell _it. You don't learn to make good pottery by going to business school, and you don't write a good story by writing what will sell..


well, this is all a very noble ideal. but i don't buy it, personally. the "wandering, curiosity, whims, and discovery" were in my mind before i ever put a letter on a page.this is the way i see it....my thoughts are the "cause". my writing is the "action". the readers are the "reaction". i write for reaction. some writers like to say..."i write because i have to.i write because i have to let it out. i write because it would be pain and suffering if i didn't". isn't that just soooo fashionable. well, me personally? writing is a soul devouring, mentally draining process. i don't enjoy it. most of the times i write, it feels like it's not even me doing it. i feel like i've been possessed. it's like cutting myself and bleeding on a page.and i'm surely not cutting myself just to watch myself bleed. i'm cutting myself for a reaction. there's a purpose to it. and the more reactions i get, the more i'm fulfilled.


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## Lewdog (Jun 23, 2013)

I prefer to lean out across the plate and take a pitch in the back for a free trip to first base.


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## InkwellMachine (Jun 23, 2013)

> well, this is all a very noble ideal. but i don't buy it, personally. the "wandering, curiosity, whims, and discovery" were in my mind before i ever put a letter on a page.this is the way i see it....my thoughts are the "cause". my writing is the "action". the readers are the "reaction". i write for reaction. some writers like to say..."i write because i have to.i write because i have to let it out. i write because it would be pain and suffering if i didn't". isn't that just soooo fashionable. well, me personally? writing is a soul devouring, mentally draining process. i don't enjoy it. most of the times i write, it feels like it's not even me doing it. i feel like i've been possessed. it's like cutting myself and bleeding on a page.and i'm surely not cutting myself just to watch myself bleed. i'm cutting myself for a reaction. there's a purpose to it. and the more reactions i get, the more i'm fulfilled.


There is some good sense to your post, friend. I suppose I threw around the word "writing" a lot--which is a truly grueling process for me as well--when I actually meant "working on a novel" in general. The writing process itself is a lot more like chopping wood. Dull. Repetitive. Not at all what I want to be doing while I'm doing it.


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## patskywriter (Jun 23, 2013)

dale said:


> … writing is a soul devouring, mentally draining process. i don't enjoy it. most of the times i write, it feels like it's not even me doing it. i feel like i've been possessed. it's like cutting myself and bleeding on a page.and i'm surely not cutting myself just to watch myself bleed. i'm cutting myself for a reaction. there's a purpose to it. and the more reactions i get, the more i'm fulfilled.



I have never heard anything like this in my life! What an interesting perspective. I was always under the impression that writers loved to write. *This* is why I like to interview people. In fact, tonight's guest (I host an weekly interview show) was a writer who said that he doesn't preplan his stories and that his characters take him where they need to go. I found that odd but intriguing.

You sound like you'd be an excellent guest, that is if you weren't such an introvert.  :lone:


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## dale (Jun 23, 2013)

patskywriter said:


> I have never heard anything like this in my life! What an interesting perspective. I was always under the impression that writers loved to write. *This* is why I like to interview people. In fact, tonight's guest (I host an weekly interview show) was a writer who said that he doesn't preplan his stories and that his characters take him where they need to go. I found that odd but intriguing.
> 
> You sound like you'd be an excellent guest, that is if you weren't such an introvert.  :lone:



lol. i don't think i'm proper for your site yet, hon. i've just started. i'd sure appreciate an interview and review when the novella is released, though.


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## philistine (Jun 23, 2013)

Stephenie Meyer 'crushed it' the same way Jedward crushed the music scene. But I get your point.

I went into short stories before even considering a novel, and so a lot of my learning was done through those. I only entertained the prospect of a novel once the veneer of amateurism started to flake and fall off. I realise my first novel will be a long shot for traditional publication, though I like to think I'm better prepared than those who start writing and churn out a novel straight away. 

But not by much. I'll write regardless.


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## Jeko (Jun 24, 2013)

Writing is like cricket, not baseball. Because cricket is awesome, and writing is awesome, but baseball is not awesome.

*hides*


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## shadowwalker (Jun 24, 2013)

Cadence said:


> Writing is like cricket, not baseball. Because cricket is awesome, and writing is awesome, but baseball is not awesome.
> 
> *hides*



Cricket? You mean those noisy little bugs who get into the cupboard and drive you nuts in the middle of the night?

 :-\"


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## philistine (Jun 24, 2013)

shadowwalker said:


> Cricket? You mean those noisy little bugs who get into the cupboard and drive you nuts in the middle of the night?
> 
> :-\"



I thought they were called hackysacks?

Well, waddya' know.


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## Sintalion (Jun 24, 2013)

For me, I try and hit a home run for myself as I write. I don't believe I learn if I'm not giving it my all.  I'm not writing with the thought in mind that it'll be a bestseller, just that I want to tell my story. It might not be a masterpiece or in the top 100,000 on amazon, but it's my baby. As my baby, I want to give it the best chance I can.

Do I think my first novel will be a hit? Heavens no, I'm not even sure it'll get any reviews. It has no hungry market, I have no readers, I don't know how to advertise (etc) so this first one's doomed to be a snowball in hell. But if someone is going to spend any time or money on what I wrote, I want to make sure it's of the highest quality I have to offer at the time (IE: a home run at batting practice with my dad).


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## Terry D (Jun 24, 2013)

When I read squid's OP I though of "swinging for the fences" as meaning trying to write a commercial success. Modifying what you do to have the most widespread appeal. Very few successful ball players make a living swinging for the fences every time they are at bat. The really good hitters approach each plate appearance as a new opportunity to do their best. 'Best' isn't always a home run. Most of them know that if they modify their approach to try and hit a home run, it only increases their chances of striking out, or hitting into a double play. Keep your eye on the ball, keep your hands back and your weight centered, and then commit to the swing. You'll have a better chance of landing one in the seats if you stay focused on the fundamentals.


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## Nickleby (Jun 24, 2013)

I knew I wanted to be a real writer when I finished a book and said to myself, "I can do better than that." People with less experience, less imagination, and less talent than me can get published. Why shouldn't I?


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## Apple Ice (Jun 24, 2013)

Well, to keep with the lovely metaphor of hitting balls all over the shop, what would you say E.L. James did? Stephanie Meyers hit it out the park but James was just strolling past and happened to catch the ball whilst holding chains and whips in the other hand.

If you can't hit it out the park, just go on the other side and start catching.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Jun 24, 2013)

squidtender said:


> Have you considered that you'll be in this for the long haul? That maybe you'll make it, but it won't be for another twenty years?



If my novel doesn't sell, it doesn't sell.  I have a great job already, and no desire to write any books after this one.  That's not going to keep me from editing the heck out of this one until it's perfect.


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## Abrahamburger (Jun 27, 2013)

:-#I honestly don't know if i'll be in this for the long as a young adult of 21 years of age I'm trying to find myself and as of right now all my thoughts day dreams and passion are going into writing this novel i'm working on I hope to hit it out of the park my first try but i know that's likely not to happen... prepared for the worst praying the best I guess the saying goes... I have bad punctuation sometime I'm becoming presently more self conscious about as i join a forum filled with writers.


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## ppsage (Jun 27, 2013)

Cricket is a bunch of rich guys who couldn't agree where the boundaries were.


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