# Tender Erasure



## Darren White

*Tender Erasure - revision*​[FONT=&Verdana]
In fragile colours you appear to me
...muted strokes
......bit by bit washed from memory

Gentle lullabies caress,
...murmur in your language
......I never was able to master

To feel you folded around me
...hear whispers of comfort,
......one more song

Here are the lines we sketched in the sand
...there the pebbled road we shaped 
......[/FONT][FONT=&Verdana]before our childrens voices were brutely silenced

At night I look out at the yawning sun
...as she draws blood and drowns
......and know one day I'll join you
[/FONT]
Time deletes you, second by word by line
...but it can never erase you,
......my essence, engraved in me[FONT=&Verdana]

[/FONT]*
***

Tender Erasure - original*


In fragile colours you appear to me
...pastel strokes that are so slowly
......but tenderly washed away from my memory

In gentle lullabies you caress my ears
...warm mumbling in your language
......I never was able to master

I want your arms to hold me one more time
...hear your soft smiling whispers
......of comfort while you sing for me

Here are the lines we once drew in the sand
...there the pebbled road we created
......our childrens voices brutely silenced

At night I look out at the yawning sun
...as she draws blood orange hues
......and know one day I'll join you

Time deletes you second by word by line
...but it can never erase you from my heart
......for you are etched in my very core


***
_February 24, 2017
Copyright © Darren White_


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## Sebald

Darren. That's so beautiful. Tears in eyes.


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## PrinzeCharming

I love the artistic feel to this piece. I am wondering what constitutes as a fragile color. I love the word choice you've provided about stimulating the ears. 'Caress' is a nice touch - pun not intended. The colorful wordplay compliments the sensual feel throughout this piece. There are a few things to refine. As the reader, I want to feel engaged with every stanza. Be more concise by utilizing concrete words. Abstract words often drift the readers off the main message. 

As far as your syllable count, there's consistency in some areas which essentially helps the flow of the overall piece. Good job. 

Overall, great job. I enjoyed this. Thanks for sharing.


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## Darren White

Sebald said:


> Darren. That's so beautiful. Tears in eyes.


Thank you, Sebald, that is a compliment!


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## Darren White

PrinzeCharming said:


> I love the artistic feel to this piece. I am wondering what constitutes as a fragile color. I love the word choice you've provided about stimulating the ears. 'Caress' is a nice touch - pun not intended. The colorful wordplay compliments the sensual feel throughout this piece. There are a few things to refine. As the reader, I want to feel engaged with every stanza. Be more concise by utilizing concrete words. Abstract words often drift the readers off the main message.
> 
> As far as your syllable count, there's consistency in some areas which essentially helps the flow of the overall piece. Good job.
> 
> Overall, great job. I enjoyed this. Thanks for sharing.



Aha! First of all, thank you, and nice to meet you 

Then: I am forever (still) fighting with concrete vs. abstract language. For that reason I am now working my way through Grindon's "Figurative Speech". My problem still is that for me it is all concrete, I don't see the abstraction. I see the image while I am writing. So I am struggling with this.

Could you point out where exactly I go into abstraction? That would be helpful for me, also for future poems.

Thank you!
Darren.


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## ned

hello - enjoyed your poem with its lovely sentiment and esoteric word-choices.

But such language needs careful maintainance - and this piece sometimes drops into the plain
or as Prinze suggests, spins out into abstraction - yes, it's a thin line to walk!

The abstractions, as I see it, are the poetical terms that are so over-used, that they lose personal meaning.
And hence, impact.

washed away from my memory -  your arms to hold me - brutely silenced - orange hues - erase you from my heart -
etched in my very core - etc

For instance, if 'from my memory' is edited from the first verse, does it lose its meaning?

Look to the craft of writing to keep the esoteric vibe - narration, punctuation and assonance in these examples...

At dawn, I look to the yawning sun
drawing blood from..... (sky, clouds. horizon etc)

Here, are the lines we drew in the sand
there, the pebbled road we made/built....

Time wanes you, second by word by line
but cannot erase you....

You have a wonderful vocabulary and turn of phrase - hone the narration
and look for surprising and creative alternatives to the abstractions for something special..

cheers.....Ned


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## Darren White

ned said:


> For instance, if 'from my memory' is edited from the first verse, does it lose its meaning?
> 
> Look to the craft of writing to keep the esoteric vibe - narration, punctuation and assonance in these examples...
> 
> At dawn, I look to the yawning sun
> drawing blood from..... (sky, clouds. horizon etc)
> 
> Here, are the lines we drew in the sand
> there, the pebbled road we made/built....
> 
> Time wanes you, second by word by line
> but cannot erase you....
> 
> You have a wonderful vocabulary and turn of phrase - hone the narration
> and look for surprising and creative alternatives to the abstractions for something special..
> 
> cheers.....Ned



Aha! Thank you Ned,

For me, non-native speaker it's not always evident what is over-used language or not. Your reply is extremely useful and you explained it well to me. I might use some of the suggestions you gave me.
I am relieved it's not a bad poem in its entirety.

I already found out that I am struggling with putting into words the imagery in my mind, in such a way that people understand what I am trying to convey.

Time to look at it again, and rewrite with this in mind.
Again thank you.


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## -xXx-

i am intrigued by how you will chose to evolve as a poet.
enjoyed this original a great deal.


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## escorial

Enjoyed the read....cool


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## Sebald

Yes, over-used phrases must be hard to hear, if English is not your first language.

Firemajic once pointed out her horror of anything that might appear in a Hallmark card. You're way above that level, of course, but it might be a good way to think of it. Just read and read and read. Listen to poetry on headphones when you're travelling. Have it playing in the background in your house.

Lots of us have never studied English literature: we've simply kept reading until our ear starts to tune in.

Practical suggestions: 'washed away' doesn't need the 'away' and 'brutely' should be 'brutally'


Time deletes you second by word by line
...but it can never erase you from my heart
......for you are etched in my very core


This stanza made me cry the first time. Trying to be more sensible, I'd say you could maybe push it even further. 

The lines make clear the meaning of the poem (time erasing memory), but why not have the speaker lose control a little more... a feeling that the person is being ripped out of a heart... a sudden panic... no, you can't have them... a desperate holding-on... (and something more aggressive than 'etched')?


Don't lose heart, Darren, you're getting a great deal of emotion into your poems. If 'Tender Erasure' was read aloud at a funeral, or remembrance service, or a celebration of someone's life, it would really bring everyone to their knees.


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## Darren White

Sebald said:


> Practical suggestions: 'washed away' doesn't need the 'away' and 'brutely' should be 'brutally'
> 
> 
> Time deletes you second by word by line
> ...but it can never erase you from my heart
> ......for you are etched in my very core
> 
> 
> This stanza made me cry the first time. Trying to be more sensible, I'd say you could maybe push it even further.
> 
> The lines make clear the meaning of the poem (time erasing memory), but why not have the speaker lose control a little more... a feeling that the person is being ripped out of a heart... a sudden panic... no, you can't have them... a desperate holding-on... (and something more aggressive than 'etched')?
> 
> 
> Don't lose heart, Darren, you're getting a great deal of emotion into your poems. If 'Tender Erasure' was read aloud at a funeral, or remembrance service, or a celebration of someone's life, it would really bring everyone to their knees.



Sebald,
Thank you.

You are right about "away" after "washed". I will remove it.
I do however keep "brutely" there, because it has a different meaning than brutally. It means: in the way/manner of a brute, and that is what I am trying to say. I know it's perhaps not being used often, but it's an existing word.

I understand what you mean yes, by quoting the stanza. I will work on a more powerful use of words throughout the poem. There is however a 'stillness' to the poem, a sadness if you like, that I would not want to lose. So it is working on a balance here.

I won't lose heart, promise!  
I am glad you all can see the fact that I can put feeling in my poems, even though they need a lot of polishing.


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## Darren White

I am heavily editing the poem, using suggestions from all of you. It is not finished yet, but I am suddenly called away! So don't frown when you see the revision, because I have to leave halfway  To be continued.


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## sas

Too many words are getting in the way. The Achilles heel of all writers. The last stanza, for example, could be exceptional without "you...you...you" on every single line. Reminds me of an old 1950's song: "You, You, You (I'm in love with you, you, you). Learn to use the delete key. Kill some darlings, if you must, and save them for another poem. Make the hard call that distinguishes mediocre from exceptional work. And, trust me, I struggle with it and often lose. And, guess I should say I hate adverbs (ly ending words) the most. Look at every adjective to see if adds or clutters.


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## Darren White

sas said:


> Too many words are getting in the way. The Achilles heel of all writers. The last stanza, for example, could be exceptional without "you...you...you" on every single line. Reminds me of an old 1950's song: "You, You, You (I'm in love with you, you, you). Learn to use the delete key. Kill some darlings, if you must, and save them for another poem. Make the hard call that distinguishes mediocre from exceptional work. And, trust me, I struggle with it and often lose. And, guess I should say I hate adverbs (ly ending words) the most. Look at every adjective to see if adds or clutters.



Yeah, thanks Sas,
I said I was called away while revising, but still a lot would still be there had you not pointed me to it.
I have edited and changed a lot now. I keep 'brutely' for the time being. First I want to let it sit a night, see how it looks in the morning, and work on it some more.


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## Sebald

This is now a very, very, very good poem.

To me, it's just the last stanza that still needs a tiny amount of tweaking. 

Also, maybe we're missing a trick in the opening. I've just noticed. You've set up a beach/coastal setting, which chimes beautifully with the theme of happy memories being washed away. Perhaps replace the word 'tender' in line 2 (which is a repeat of the title) with 'watery' (referencing both the sea and pastel watercolours). 

The last stanza. This might annoy you. I prefer the original.

Now you've experimented with alternatives, I can see how powerful the original is. Sorry, Darren.

I agree that 'you' can be a weakener. But, in this poem, it still (like the word 'heart') just opens me up. 

I think it's because your piece is - amongst other things - an act of wish-fulfillment. The longing to speak directly to the person we've lost. You're letting us do it (or at least listen while you try).

What else would we say to them but 'you'? 

Emotional again!

I'll get back to you soon.


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## Darren White

Sebald,

Not annoying at all 

This is what I find so interesting in having both versions up there, and why I want to sit on it a night. I fully agree with you on the final stanza, because I have tried a few other lines, and finally gave up and ended up with this revision. But it has by no means the strength of the original. The main reason being that the entire poem is the 1st person speaking to the 2nd person. And I struggle to get that finalised in the closing stanza.

I might replace it again with that original last stanza. We'll see....

The opening stanza I am considering replacing "tender pastel" with "watercolour" (watercolor)

Darren.


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## Sebald

Yes, that sounds like a great change. I hadn't realised how watery the poem is, the ebb and flow of it.

I've been trying to brainstorm a few words that might help with the ending. 

'Engraved' is good, and might be right. Something that is in the flesh of a person and can never be removed. 'Tattoo' is wrong. 'Branded'? No. 'Scorched'? Could 'seared' be somehow made to work? There's heat in the sun you've just mentioned, so that's a sort of connection.

Thanks for the poem. I'll send you the bill for the tissues ha ha.

..
[FONT=&Verdana]
[/FONT]
..


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## sas

See, Darren? So many opinions. Set poem aside for awhile. Remember, all suggestions are suspect. Even mine; or, especially mine. LOL. 

And, to craze your further, I'd love last line to be simple (less is more):

you are my very core


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## Darren White

I'm slowly getting there, second by word by line


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## -xXx-

i prefer the original.
my apologies.


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## Darren White

-xXx- said:


> i prefer the original.
> my apologies.



LOL no need for apologies, I am not done with this pesky poem yet


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## Darren White

Revision up


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## sas

Everyone will hate what I'm going to say:

The last stanza opens with a stunning line!  It is deflated by the next two which are pedestrian, and expected.  Try to match the creativeness of the first. It deserves it. And, "destroy" is too war-like a word, "erase" was better.


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## Darren White

Why would I hate you? It's by no means a finished product. I agree on that first line, and also on the fact that the other two lines need to be changed


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## Sebald

Hi Darren,
I can see why you've ended on a repeat of the voice/singing, but to me it makes the poem more about sound than erasure. Sorry.


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## Darren White

Sebald said:


> Hi Darren,
> I can see why you've ended on a repeat of the voice/singing, but to me it makes the poem more about sound than erasure. Sorry.


Hi Sebald, 
I am in the middle of revising and thinking what I want there. I am absolutely not sure yet what I will eventually end up with. I am playing with several options, let it sit and look at it. I'll yell again whenj I have made a final decision.


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## Sebald

OK Darren. I won't pester you about it ha ha. 

No pressure, you have a wonderful poem, no matter how you tweak it.


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## Darren White

I have revised again. For me this is as far as I can and want to go without losing the poem, the feeling I have for it. Thanks for all your help, all of you


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## Sebald

Darren White said:


> I have revised again. For me this is as far as I can and want to go without losing the poem, the feeling I have for it. Thanks for all your help, all of you



I love the revision. Would you consider 'engraved in my very core' instead of 'engraved in me'? It just gives that extra push of emotion, to end on. Then, for me, it's done. 
Congratulations!


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## Darren White

Sebald said:


> I love the revision. Would you consider 'engraved in my very core' instead of 'engraved in me'? It just gives that extra push of emotion, to end on. Then, for me, it's done.
> Congratulations!



Especially for you the very core has returned!


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## Sebald

Darren White said:


> Especially for you the very core has returned!



HURRAY 

(thank you)

I really do love it.


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## Firemajic

Deleted by Firemajic...


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## Robbie

Darren, I have  just read this once so can't do it justice yet, but do you mean "brutally" in stanza four? I do not recognize the word 'brutely.' I have never found a missspelling in your work so this may be a new word for me. This poem read like a song. It would be nice set to music. Later.


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## clark

There is a clear distinction between CLICHES and ABSTRACTIONS.  The former are a bitch for non-native speakers to detect, because they can be as concrete as concrete, but STILL be cliches.  "Rock-hard" for example, is a cliche--done to death, tired, beat-up old phrase a poet wants to avoid.  Cliches are often accidental with new poets, or for writers relatively new to colloquial English.  Abstractions are easier to deal with.  If you cannot touch, taste, see, hear, or smell it--the word is an abstraction.  Love, hate, fear, SOUL (skaa-ream!!), God, quick, evil, redemption, tenderness, condemnation, etc.  Just AVOID abstractions as much as possible.  Have a look at Yeats's "The Lake Isle of Innesfree",and note the solidity and concreteness of the imagery.  Or Shakespeare's Sonnets # 18 and 73.  Occasional--very occasional--abstract words are used, but it is the extraordinary juxtaposition of the concrete things of the world within the imagery that carries the emotion and elicits your response.  Have a crack at writing a short love poem, free of abstractions of any kind and free of "your limpid eyes", "your creamy thighs", "your transcendent  Soul" and all the other vomit-inducing cliches that lazy writers lean on, rather than finding their own unique voice.  There are no new TOPICS for poetry--those were exhausted about 400 years ago--there are only new VOICES.  Your 'voice' is what we want to hear.  Ultimately, that is all that any of us have to offer.  "The pebbled road we shaped"......."time deletes you"......the "yawning sun" bleeding in its death--lines like those perked me up and HELD me, enthralled.  I wanted to walk the walk with that poet in those moments.  But when I'm told all this will affect "my very core", I'm looking for a waste basket to bury my head in :dejection:.  C'mon now. . .just kidding.  Since English is an additional language for you, I think you're doing a hell of a job.


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## Darren White

LOL Clark.
You hit the nail on the head with the fact that English is an added language for me. It brings the problem that I cannot distinguish between cliches and abstractions. Even the fact that I am working my way through books about figurative speech at the moment, does not solve that problem for me.
So I either have to run into walls numerous times and being pointed at it, and slowly learn that way, or.... what 
Before I started to write in English a year ago, I wrote in Dutch. Which is one of my two native languages. And I don't think I had this problem unless no one dared to tell me (entirely possible).

I read a lot of Shakespeare's sonnets, some of them I know by heart. And still I have a problem distinguishing between abstractions and cliches, I guess you'll just have to kick me from time to time  PLUS a lot of practicing for me, which I am doing. I'll write a love poem to myself, and see if I can work it out without any cliche or abstraction.

I love that last line of sonnet #18.
And the second and third of #73


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## Darren White

Robbie
"Brutely"  is an existing word, and here I prefer it to brutally, because it means: done by a brute (more or less), which is what I intended to say.
It reads like a song? I like that, thank you


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## Darren White

Firemajic,
If you say it "lost passion", do you mean it had some of it in the original version?


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## Darren White

Anyways: I did revise the poem again.
After this revision I am going to let it rest before I kill it completely.
I'll step away from it and let it sit there for a while.


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## Sebald

Firemajic said:


> With all due respect to Fabulous Sebald, I completely disagree.... This poem would not stir ANY emotion in my little stone heart... because of some of your vague sentiments... this poem lost passion, and real, honest emotion...



Hi again Darren ha ha.

Fire does not have a little stone heart, I'm sure. Just goes to show how different we all are when it comes to taste, or what we're hoping to get from a piece of art. 

Your poem made me cry two (and a bit) times. True, I'm not a poet. But I read a lot of books, and don't usually have this reaction.


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## Sebald

Can I say something serious? I feel a bit uncomfortable about the way this thread has gone.

I can't speak for Darren. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's confused and upset. I realise it's the nature of giving feedback. But something has gone awry if a talented poet ends a workshop feeling that his poem is 'dead'

Fire, I'm surprised you were so hard on him.


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## Firemajic

Sebald said:


> Can I say something serious? I feel a bit uncomfortable about the way this thread has gone.
> 
> I can't speak for Darren. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's confused and upset. I realise it's the nature of giving feedback. But something has gone awry if a talented poet ends a workshop feeling that his poem is 'dead'
> 
> Fire, I'm surprised you were so hard on him.






I have deleted my comments on your poem, Darren... please accept my apologies ... feedback is a tool, hopefully the poet will decide how and IF he wishes to use that tool... my comments are just MY point of view... and are given to provide the writer with a different point of view, as a mentor, I critique with the hope of inspiring your love for your craft, I hope to push you out of your comfort zone, and maybe give you a new direction to go... if my words cause a poet to become discouraged, then I have failed as a mentor. I am truly sorry if I caused distress, that was never my intent.


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## Sebald

Thanks for that, Fire.

You do inspire everyone, all the time. 

Darren seemed to find himself at the centre of two particularly gruelling threads. They were gruelling partly because he was trying so hard. I can't imagine anyone having a better attitude than he's shown. He just kept taking it on the chin, making a joke, and trying to get better.

Fire, I'm one of the people who was piling on the pressure. 

I'm sorry, Darren.


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## ned

Fire - sometimes, critiques get misconstrued - that is just the vagueness of our language.
Ironically, what us poets endeavour to exploit.

But anyone who knows you through your comments and support, will know you meant
no harm or discouragement.

enough creeping......Ned


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## Space Cadet

Love these lines:



clark said:


> "The pebbled road we shaped"......."time deletes you"......the "yawning sun" bleeding in its death--lines like those perked me up and HELD me, enthralled.  I wanted to walk the walk with that poet in those moments.


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## Darren White

Fire, Seb, Ned, everyone.
Sometimes critique is hard to swallow, yes. BUT
I did what I normally do: step back, let it rest for a few hours, a night in this case, to avoid overly emotional comments.

SO!

Firemajic, no need for apologies, I am not discouraged. I only had a particularly difficult day yesterday. It is true that after a few revisions I lost track of what I was doing. It happens, and it is confusing, that's true. But I have all versions, I keep them, and will work on them later. You didn't have to delete your comment.... 
Sometimes words are harsh, or nice, but in the end you meant what you said, and I will have to deal with the poem and what to do with it.

I joined the forum for honest critique, and that is what I am getting. I am human, get sometimes emotional (don't we all), but in the end I'm still here.

I will get over it and post again.

Please don't stop critiquing?

Darren.


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## Darren White

Sebald said:


> Fire, I'm one of the people who was piling on the pressure.
> 
> I'm sorry, Darren.



Just a smile and a hug for you Seb, nuff said


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