# Sex in my book.



## Robert Donnell (May 19, 2012)

I finished writing my book years ago but never published it, until now.

Inspired by Shades of Gray which is self published Mommy Porn, I deceided to add a few more chapters to push my book into at least the R rated area but the chapters steadfastly remained PG-13.

Hollywood is bad about adding sex when there is no reason to do so just to get that one last dollar out of a film.

How sexy should a book be?


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## Tiamat (May 19, 2012)

I'm not a big fan of putting sex in my work at all.  It feels cheap and tacky.  I mean, if it's important that my characters do the naughty, I'll put it in the book, but I don't need to make it hardcore.  I just need to let it be known that the deed was done.  Going into detail, in most cases, is just a gimmick.  I try to avoid those.


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## Potty (May 19, 2012)

I agree with Tia, HOWEVER. The first book I ever rented from a library was full of really nasty sex scenes. Given I was 14 at the time, I was surprised I was allowed to check the book out. The fact something like that was even rented in a local library, to coin a phrase from cartman, warped my fragile little mind. 

With this in mind, there must be a market for it, but I doubt it is very big.


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## Skodt (May 19, 2012)

It has its place, but can't be forced. Take game of thrones, it is a fantasy epic, yet it puts sex in without coming away as over the top. Yet another series such as Sword of truth while a good book becomes odd with a character is almost raped. The grafic language used in this scene is so different from the rest of the book. It becomes offputting and ruins the segement for me. 

So like said I believe it has it's place, but can't be forced.


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## Kyle R (May 19, 2012)

Potty said:
			
		

> there must be a market for it, but I doubt it is very big.



Erotica is actually a profitable genre to write in, from what I hear.

"Porn for chicks!"


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## Robert Donnell (May 19, 2012)

Actually I have an aquaintenance who writes erotica for a living (50% of her writing) but I just can not seem to go there.

Like OMG Tia did you just say "_do the naughty_?"  We are adults here can't we at least use adult words?  Now I am a father and I do find from time to time that I have "Potty Mouth" ie I use the word potty rather than that other word but still....

I just find that sex for me is either totally zipless or it is love making, and that is reflected in my character's opinion too even if I as the writer intend to do otherwise.

As for "Porn for Chicks"  try wedding videos.


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## Tiamat (May 19, 2012)

I was going for colloquialism, but if you'd like to keep things mundane and continue referring to it as sex, that's fine.  How's about coitus?  Intercourse?  Mating? The horizontal mambo?  Oh wait, that's childish jargon again.  

But anyways, to readdress your question:  If you "just can not seem to go there," why try to force it?  That'd be like Nicholas Sparks writing something other than predictable, to-have-loved-and-lost drivel.  And I'm just guessing that he wouldn't sell quite as many books if he made that leap.  Write what you're comfortable writing, what you're confident writing.  If you story calls for sex, write it, but I don't see any particularly good reason to go in depth--unless of course your MC is a woman trying to conceive, but her best friend insists that the best way to get knocked up is to ride reverse cowgirl in time to The BeeGee's "Staying Alive" while her husband mirrors her movements, thereby penetrating deeper, and of course pulling her hair and raking her back with his fingernails.  

In that case, you may need to go into some detail.  Or if you're simply going for the whole "Sex sells" bit.  But if you're not comfortable doing it, it's going to come off as false.  Your confidence--or lack thereof--will in all likelihood show in your prose.  That is all.


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## squidtender (May 19, 2012)

Tiamat10 said:


> unless of course your MC is a woman trying to conceive, but her best friend insists that the best way to get knocked up is to ride reverse cowgirl in time to The BeeGee's "Staying Alive" while her husband mirrors her movements, thereby penetrating deeper, and of course pulling her hair and raking her back with his fingernails.



Did anyone else read that about 37 times then go have a cigarette, or was that just me?


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## Robert Donnell (May 20, 2012)

Let me say this again: Me as a human being I find sex is either too shallow (zipless) or too deep (intense).  When I write I see no reason to describe the mechanics not that I can not but the really good part of love making is so much more than that even if words could describe all of the aspects, it just would not be appropriate  to go to some couple's private place.  As a writer I just seem to veer off at the last minute.

If I were to go there I would have to approach from the emotional and spiritual aspects.

Is there a happy medium between too much gratuitus sex and none, how much do you put in your books?  Again me as a human being I have been married most of my adult life and there is a woman in my bed or I'm out looking for one but in telling you about me, I would not go into a lot of detail.  Now if I wanted a male character to be offensive to women I would have him bragging about his sexual conquests to his friends.


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## Potty (May 20, 2012)

Robert Donnell said:


> I have "Potty Mouth".



For the love of god, don't tell my other half!


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## justbishop (May 20, 2012)

A book should be as sexy as the writer wants to write it, which will most likely depend on the ultimate goal of the writer.

If you're asking what level of smut readers like, it depends on the reader. Some will like graphically described sex on every other page, some won't. Same with agents and publishers, I suppose (depending on genre, of course).


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## Robert Donnell (May 20, 2012)

Thank you for that Justbishop.  I am glad to hear that there is not a minimum nor a maximum on sex.  As for publishers and or editors their power to help or hurt is greatly deminished now that we can all direct publish to Kindle.  They can no longer bar the way.


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## Jon M (May 20, 2012)

Robert Donnell said:


> As for publishers and or editors their power to help or hurt is greatly deminished now that we can all direct publish to Kindle.  They can no longer bar the way.


I don't understand this kind of animosity toward editors / publishers. I think most writers, after a period of a year or two or more, would actually be grateful that an editor rejected their manuscript. Because then they wouldn't have to live down some truly awful work associated with their name.


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## Olly Buckle (May 20, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> "Porn for chicks!"


My friend whose, mother is in her nineties. tells me that books containing explicit sex scenes are eagerly passed round the elderly pensioned ladies of Bexhill and avidly read and discussed. I think the "chicks" have a sufficiency of real life, it is among those for whom that was so long ago the memory requires a little nudge that the appeal lies I think.


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## starseed (May 20, 2012)

> A book should be as sexy as the writer wants to write it, which will most likely depend on the ultimate goal of the writer.



This. There aren't rules. Write what you want to write and someone out there will most likely like it if you do.

Clearly the existence of sex in the world of storytelling is not really a problem, unless you're trying to write hardcore Christian or children's books or something.


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## kudi (May 23, 2012)

Unless your writing pure erotica then sex in your book should in general have a purpose. There are a variety of ways to make sex scenes meaningful: 

-use to move the plot forward
-to reveal how a characters changed or what they currently feel
-to reveal how their relationship has changed 
-to reveal an aspect of the character that wasn't easily seen before

A touch hard or soft, a look, sounds, muscle tension, smell, taste all can be used to reveal how a character feels, has changed and the recipients reactions to those reveal information both about themselves and how they feel about the giver. 

Its kind of vague, but I hope this helps.


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## shadowwalker (May 23, 2012)

Sex should be included only if the story requires it; otherwise it's gratuitous and many readers, otherwise engrossed in the story, will be annoyed by it. It shouldn't be tossed in to make a few extra sales, or to try and draw in a few more readers. If the story will actually be enhanced by one or more sex scenes, the consensus over many discussions on many forums seems to be stay away from the mechanics, the biology, the dictionary, and go for the feelings (physical and emotional) and thoughts that go along with the act itself.


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## shadowwalker (May 23, 2012)

Jon M said:


> I don't understand this kind of animosity toward editors / publishers. I think most writers, after a period of a year or two or more, would actually be grateful that an editor rejected their manuscript. Because then they wouldn't have to live down some truly awful work associated with their name.



I don't understand why that animosity had to be tossed into _this_ discussion anyway.


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## Olly Buckle (May 23, 2012)

> Sex should be included only if the story requires it; otherwise it's gratuitous and many readers, otherwise engrossed in the story, will be annoyed by it. It shouldn't be tossed in to make a few extra sales, or to try and draw in a few more readers.


'Should' and 'shouldn't' are all very well, but this does happen, and, depressingly, it seems to work to a degree


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## Robert Donnell (May 24, 2012)

Yeah we know it does (sex sells) but it seems that PG-13 works just as well.

The fact is that sexual activity is part of my daily life but I am quite sure that I would not discuss it in great detail in a discription of my daily activities.

For example one of my character's wife leaves him, he wakes up the next morning with a new girl in bed with him.  I do not discuss, what they did in bed but I do beleive that my readers can figure that out for them selves.


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## SeaBee1 (May 24, 2012)

Robert Donnell said:


> Yeah we know it does (sex sells) but it seems that PG-13 works just as well.
> 
> The fact is that sexual activity is part of my daily life but I am quite sure that I would not discuss it in great detail in a discription of my daily activities.
> 
> For example one of my character's wife leaves him, he wakes up the next morning with a new girl in bed with him.  I do not discuss, what they did in bed but I do beleive that my readers can figure that out for them selves.



Problem solved...


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## starseed (May 24, 2012)

Yeah I think "sex sells" can mean a lot more than graphic descriptions of the mechanics of what is happening. That is rarely necessary and I don't actually find it arousing at all...the sexual _tension _between characters is what is arousing and what would sell me (and probably a lot of others) on a story.


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## Axamander (May 28, 2012)

Don't include sex for the sake of sex unless that's the entire point of the novel.  In my most recent work, there was one sex scene, and it lasted for half of a page.  I made it clear that the sex took place, that it was pleasurable and consentual, and unprotected - only because the pregnancy that resulted from it was a major plot point.  There are a million ways to do it.  You can do it explicitly (He traced his finger around the concave indent of the small of her back, letting it trail down her buttocks) or implicitly (and so, as her fears melted away and two became one, trouble was just beginning to stir on the horizon).  Sex is just a part of writing, just as it is a part of life.  All this obsession and embarassment over it is just a relic from victorian England, and I say it's time we got over it.


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## PaulMcElligott (May 30, 2012)

I find that sex usually puts the brakes on the action, and is often included more for the author's stimulation than the readers edification. The knowledge that two characters slept together is usually sufficient to move the plot forward.

That being said, a certain amount of PG-rated eroticism can be very revealing of character, or of the relationship between characters. Is it playful or cold? Equal or is one partner dominant? Anything beyond that, and you better have a good reason for including it. Frankly, it's what we do when we're not having sex that separates us humans from other species and makes us worth telling stories about.

In my first published work, my main character is gay. This meant I couldn't go into much detail without plunging into virgin territory (pun intended). But I was able to establish, without being either explicit or oblique, that the character did indeed have a sex life.


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## El Chacal (Jun 17, 2012)

Robert Donnell said:


> How sexy should a book be?



Sexy enough to make the reader want to take a cold shower and spend the next half-hour looking at pictures of fluffy kittens in order to cleanse his mind after reading the first paragraph.


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## Galen (Jun 17, 2012)

What about humor?

I love Janet Evanovich and she makes sex funny. All of my friends love her and we share her books among ourselves and others. She cracks me up. She has a way of saying things that I thought would be impolite in public but somehow she adds a charm that makes it ok. Now, if I recall there has been only one scene that I read and I have read many of her books that was a bit too explicit for me. To me it crossed over from funny to cold erotica.

Also, while I don't remember much of the details there was one scene in one of John Dunning's books -- Booked to Die or the next one, where when he described the main character's reaction, it was very funny in a surprising way. He doesn't go into details, somehow the character ended up in this situation and boom! Dunning's sense of humor is quite different than Evanovich's.

Also, Robert Parker, he wears me out with all of the women that throw themselves at his hero. While he is not explicit, he makes it clear and at some point for me it is a nuisance but I suspect his male readership loves it. Don't get me wrong I like Parker, may he rest in peace.

I do like it when the writer leaves something to my imagination and doesn't spell out every step. But, I don't read hard core porn, not sure about soft porn, does Evanovich fall into that category? I do not like violent sex. I will avoid it all costs.

Sex has universal appeal. I do think you need to consider your audience. Hard core, soft core or just a suggestion.


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## monstersunny (Jun 18, 2012)

In my WIP I have several rape scenes. These are not intended for eroticism but are crucial for the story.  It involves a very young girl and I have found it tremendously difficult to write for two reasons. 1. I do not want to turn anyone on or fan someones weird rape fetish 2. I don't want to offend the reader.  I have reworked the scenes many times, trying to "clean" it up or make it less harsh, but it has been difficult since rape is the reoccurring theme in the book and it really is a metaphor for the a much bigger brush stroke...which is that sometimes something is taken from us, robbed from us, that can never be given back and it doesn't take years to heal it takes generations.  In real life it doesn't have to be our physical selves, it can be anything that stops us from becoming who we are meant to be, in my book it is my characters rape that stops her.  Sex is such a difficult thing to write about, I do have loving sex scenes in the story but they are VERY pg-13..if even that. I am not writing an erotic novel so it is just gratuitous to do that.  I personally think if it belongs in the story it will fit..if it doesn't it won't and it will seem as though your story collided with an adult book store.


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## Robdemanc (Jun 20, 2012)

I have never explicity written a sex scene for my story. But I did imply one a while back.  Unless it is necessary for the story, the sex need not be explicit.

In hollywood the sex in films is never usually necessary.  There is only one film I have seen where I thought the sex scene was vital for the story - The Terminator.


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## Jon M (Jun 20, 2012)

Robdemanc said:


> There is only one film I have seen where I thought the sex scene was vital for the story - The Terminator.


Monster's Ball.


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## Scorcho (Jul 2, 2012)

Unless you're specifically writing erotica I'd keep the sex scenes fairly non-descriptive.


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## snowbunny (Jul 3, 2012)

Adult romance usually always has detailed sex scenes in it. If its a lot of sex scenes and more dirty it becomes erotic romance. If it has a lot of romance but no detailed sex scenes its usually geared towards young adult... Take twilight for instance. If its not specifically a romance novel then I wouldn't give to much detail into the sex scene just imply that they have sex... Sometimes horror novels also have sex in them. Ever read anything by Bentley Little? bahahahaha hes awesomely sick minded.


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