# Guys are just as insecure as girls.



## Deleted member 33527 (Oct 8, 2011)

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## beanlord56 (Oct 8, 2011)

Of course we are, well most of us anyways. We're just too stuck up on pride and manliness to actually admit it and let it show. The exceptions being, obviously your brother, and my own brother.

Unless your brother is like my friend who used to be really fat, then lost a lot of weight (he's anorexic skinny) and now had DDs (odd, I know) that can knock you out with a single flap, I don't think he has room to complain. Even I have man boobs, but it's simple to hide them: wear loose clothing. 



I just realized that this kinda sounds rude, which is the exact opposite of my intentions.


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## Phyllis (Oct 9, 2011)

A whole new clientelle for plastic surgeons!  Male breast reductions!  Probably quicker and faster healing, and any scarring will be hidden in the hairy chest.  I say, go for it guys!  We dirty old ladies like our prey lookin' hot!


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## Nacian (Oct 9, 2011)

of course guys are exactly the same as girls if  not more...that is something totally normal I can reassure you.
just because they have not got their own makeup sections and beauty salons does not mean they are  not into looks and perfection.
if society was different they would have excatly what women have on everything if not more.


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## JosephB (Oct 9, 2011)

I  think it would be fair to say women tend to be more insecure about their bodies, because as a culture, we put more pressure on women to look a certain way -- especially when it comes to weight. The imagery you see on TV and in magazines etc. sets up an almost impossible ideal. 

I remember a few years back Dove ran a campaign with so-called average women and they were shown in their underwear -- and while some of them were a little heavier, they were still very well proportioned and pretty and of course, they had really nice skin. And they were getting all this praise for it. 

You just don't see that kind of focus on men -- and you don't see all the  beauty and diet products aimed at them. And in all those ads, it's about feeling better about yourself, more confident -- just because you look better. I think that you see relatively few men with eating disorders speaks to all that.


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## Cran (Oct 9, 2011)

> *Guys are just as insecure as girls.*



Rubbish - guys are much more insecure than girls.

Apart from the whole SNAG/Metrosexual mind trip, who tops the charts in steroid abuse? 

Male image is pushed, although not in the same way - but if you don't look like Brad Pitt, George Clooney, or Sean Connery (or any of the "look" crowd), you'd better be funny (because the surveys show that a sense of humour is right up there with tight butts, 6-pack abs, and financial independence), or have a marketable talent (music, sports, whatever). When was the last time an ugly face (or a fat guy) was used to sell shaving products or cologne?

If you can't be part of the "look" crowd, or the funny crowd, then your image depends on your wallet - buy the latest European top-of-the-line car (or any car that costs more than a house), and the gold-and-platinum watch that sets off metal detectors in the next state, and you can forget about that hair-replacement therapy and the Ab-Circle-Pro.


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## JosephB (Oct 9, 2011)

The OP is about body type -- not insecurity in general. Again, I'd say that since only around 10% of people with eating disorders are men, that's pretty good evidence that women tend to be more insecure about their bodies. Yes -- men are handsome in ads, but there isn't the sheer volume of ads aimed at men as women -- most of which show them impossibly thin and/or with huge breasts -- a really unnatural combination. And look at the ads for diet programs like Weight Watchers -- they're all aimed primarily at women.


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## garza (Oct 9, 2011)

Cran, you have it exactly right. Well played, sir, well played.


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## JosephB (Oct 9, 2011)

garza said:


> Cran, you have it exactly right. Well played, sir, well played.



Maybe -- if you're ignoring the gist of OP.

Otherwise, I  think it would safe to say that often people are insecure because of different pressures put on us by culture and society --  different things and in different measures, depending on the individual and sex.


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## Cran (Oct 9, 2011)

JosephB said:


> The OP is about body type -- not insecurity in general. Again, I'd say that since only around 10% of people with eating disorders are men ...


Is that 10% who are treated for eating disorders? 
Or 10% who admit to eating disorders? 



> An estimated 10-15% of people with anorexia or bulimia are males. Many  clinicians believe that this figure is underreported because many men  are ashamed to admit that they may be suffering from something thought  to affect only women. _Newsweek_ magazine reported 40% of 131  Cornell University football players surveyed engaged in eating  disordered behaviors (bingeing and purging), with 10% classified as  having clinical eating disorders. Many men suffer from bulimia under the  guise of "staying in shape" and use compulsive exercise as a form of purging...
> 
> Only 1 in 10 people with eating disorders receive treatment...
> 
> Roughly 25 million men and 43 million women are dieting to lose weight.  Another 21 million men and 26 million women are dieting to maintain  weight. In total, there are nearly 116 million adults dieting at any  given time — representing about 55% of the total adult population...


-http://www.mirasol.net/eating-disorders/information/eating-disorder-statistics.php




JosephB said:


> ... And look at the ads for diet programs like Weight Watchers -- they're all aimed primarily at women.


Not in the ads I've seen; nor in the hype for Fat Busters and Greatest Losers; nor in the posters at my local medical centre.



> *Facts about men and weight loss*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


-http://www.weightwatchers.com/betterformen/


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## JosephB (Oct 9, 2011)

And yeah -- there's a Weight Watchers for men -- I'm talking about the TV  ad campaigns -- and here in the states, the spokespeople are women, the  majority of the testimonials, if not all -- are women. The same with  most of the other diet programs and products. What does that tell you?  They are aimed at the audience that is most susceptible to the message  -- women.

Football players would naturally be more concerned about weight. Seems like a weird study group. That's like conducting a study about eating disorders among female gymnasts and applying it to the general population. And why even consider posters at the medical center? They're not going to be biased one way or the other for obvious reasons. 



> Studies show that men are more likely than women to postpone dieting   until their health begins to suffer, which means that they're more   likely to be extremely overweight by the time they act.



And what does that tell us? That when it comes to weight, health reasons are more likely to cause men to act -- _not body image._

Here's the relevant stat:



> _"Roughly 25 million men and 43 million women are dieting to lose weight._"



Which would leave me to believe women are _more_ concerned and insecure about weight -- no? And that was my original point -- and direct answer to the OP, which is about _body_ type.

Men _tend_ to like thinner women with big knockers, women_ tend_ to like good looking and/or financially well off men – and some have insecurities based on those. And of course, advertisers take advantage of it. Banal stuff when you think about it.


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## j.w.olson (Oct 9, 2011)

Male insecurity does not simply manifest through dieting, however. I know men who I believe would be too insecure to admit they need to diet -- many of them work out compulsively instead, while still eating their fried red meat dripping with grease and cheese and drinking carbonated sugar water and frowning at that leafy rabbit food.

Also, what does the word "diet" mean? As a noun it simply means "the kind of foods you generally eat." Does it mean to pay attention to what you eat? As a vegetarian who buys foods with as few ingredients as possible from local sources, I very clearly have a specific diet. I'm not overweight, but I make sure not to gain any via how I work out and what I eat. Am I on a diet? Or does it have to be one of those fad diets where someone makes money from your plight?

And even if you say no, what I do does not count as dieting, I can still tell you that I am very insecure about how I look. I worry about my hair cut, beard trimming, muscle toning, whether I get any body fat, if I have acne, if I forget to cut my finger nails, what my clothes look like, etc.

Really, I think it's silly to pretend that gender really matters here at all. Yes, gender affects how society pressures you, but not whether you are pressured; I think there are more important variables than gender.


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## JosephB (Oct 9, 2011)

> Also, what does the word "diet" mean?



Diet in this context means some sort of program for weight loss. 



> Male insecurity does not simply manifest through dieting, however.



Nope, not solely.  But I'd bet most men _and_ women look at dieting as the easiest and quickest fix, so it's probably a pretty good indication.

Otherwise, it's not silly to suggest women are _more_ concerned with body issues than men -- which is the thread topic. I think there is evidence to support it -- along with the observable things that I've mentioned.

Not saying I can endorse this for accuracy, but this is interesting info. that seems to be credible.

Mirror, mirror - A summary of research findings on body image

An excerpt:



> All research to date on body image shows that women are much more  critical of their appearance than men – much less likely to admire what  they see in the mirror. Up to 8 out of 10 women will be dissatisfied  with their reflection, and more than half may see a distorted image.
> 
> Men looking in the mirror are more likely to be either pleased with  what they see or indifferent. Research shows that men generally have a  much more positive body-image than women – if anything, they may tend to  over-estimate their attractiveness. Some men looking in the mirror may  literally not see the flaws in their appearance.



Another interesting article:

Women found more concerned for their body shape as compared to men | TopNews


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## Sam (Oct 9, 2011)

Why is it whenever there's a discussion about whether males or females have more or less of something, people argue like crazy that their sex has it the worst? Are we five years old? What is wrong with people? It's not a competition. Some men are more insecure than women. Some women are more insecure than men. Who really cares who has it the worst?


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## JosephB (Oct 9, 2011)

True, if want to look at things in the most simplistic way possible. Otherwise, having a bad body image issues can lead to serious problems -- I'm sure you're aware of that. Looking at who is most susceptible and why would be the place to start looking at things --  if you're going to address the issue. That's not something five-years olds do. 

Fine for you to say "who cares" -- but there are a lot of people who are interested in the topic -- and as the father of two girls, it concerns me. You might want to consider how others might feel about this before you dismiss it all.


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## Sam (Oct 9, 2011)

I didn't dismiss the topic, Joe. I simply asked why people start arguments about which sex has it the worst when it comes to insecurity. I have teenage cousins, both male and female, who look like stick insects. Either they have a serious metabolism, or they are over-conscious about their weight/figure. It isn't limited to just girls. 

The topic is very relevant. The argument about who has it the worst is pointless.


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## JosephB (Oct 9, 2011)

More accurately, you were dismissing the idea that it's relevant to know who is affected most. Without any context – or examination of the root causes – “who has it the worst” would be pointless. But considering that men and women seem to deal with these issues differently and the messages in the media are aimed more at women – it’s valid to discuss the differences. It's been mentioned men may be more likely to not seek treatment for eating disorders. That alone is a difference worth addressing -- don't you think? Seems like it to me, from a standpoint of education and awareness. So -- no, it's not all the same, regardless of gender. 

Who suffers more from something or who is impacted most is not irrelevant. For example, African American men are more likely to get  prostate cancer. That’s just a fact – and knowing that has something to do with how we should go about making people aware. Different messages, different audience. If you were running  a program or allocating funds to address the problem of prostate cancer nationwide – would you say, it doesn’t matter who suffers most? I don't think so. I don't see why it would be any different with body image and the resulting issues and problems.


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## Bluesman (Oct 9, 2011)

Am i insecure ? - yes - but only about my spelling and awful punctuation. 

As for eating, drinking, farting and generally being a man which is being pretty disgusting for the most part i'm fine thankyou 

Drops pants and wiggles fat bum in the air  

I take myself far to serious according to my therapist so there you have it ..... the new and improved me  

Fat men of the world unite .....burn your belts and let it all hang out. TURN ON, TUNE IN, DROP OUT !!


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## Patrick (Oct 9, 2011)

Men are just too insecure about their insecurities to admit to being insecure about anything at all... *couldn't find the right smiley*.


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## caelum (Oct 9, 2011)

Sam W said:


> Why is it whenever there's a discussion about whether males or females have more or less of something, people argue like crazy that their sex has it the worst? Are we five years old? What is wrong with people? It's not a competition. Some men are more insecure than women. Some women are more insecure than men. Who really cares who has it the worst?


Wow. . . Words fail.  Tact is a good thing you know.

I think there are insecure men just as there are very secure women.  Gender doesn't seem to come into it.  I really like people who are secure to the point of being self-oblivious, who never do anything in reference to how it will be perceived.  One of my uncle's is this way, but I think his lack of self-consciousness comes from how he looks at people.  It's like he looks at people like they aren't actual people, not like he is.  When he looks at me it's like he's looking at an object.  It's hard to explain.


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## Writ-with-Hand (Oct 9, 2011)

JosephB said:


> I  think it would be fair to say women tend to be more insecure about their bodies, because as a culture, we put more pressure on women to look a certain way -- especially when it comes to weight. The imagery you see on TV and in magazines etc. sets up an almost impossible ideal.
> 
> I remember a few years back Dove ran a campaign with so-called average women and they were shown in their underwear -- and while some of them were a little heavier, they were still very well proportioned and pretty and of course, they had really nice skin. And they were getting all this praise for it.
> 
> You just don't see that kind of focus on men -- and you don't see all the  beauty and diet products aimed at them. And in all those ads, it's about feeling better about yourself, more confident -- just because you look better. I think that you see relatively few men with eating disorders speaks to all that.




This is one of your posts I totally disagree with. Okay... maybe not totally but 95%.

Males have one reassurance, that if they become financially rich or famous then they can attract the hottest looking females no matter how unattractive they are or how large their "man boobs" are.

That aside, males worry about their looks as much as females, at least young males. Both men and women in their 30's tend to let their bodies go or at least they don't tend to expend as much energy and focus on it as they did when they were young.

Actually, I think it's more often the case that boys and young men expend more energy (calories) developing their bodies then girls and young women. A young woman might spend several more minutes then a guy in front of a mirror looking at her butt in a pair of jeans, however, that requires no more calories (energy) then bucking young stud squatting a hundred or more pounds, bench pressing, and sweating thirty to sixty minutes in a gym. Lets not forget all the products marketed at males promising extraordinary results. GNC is built on it. I use to spend hundreds of dollars on supplements when I was younger myself. Actually, I have a big container of creatine now.

And well fit male models are plentiful in ads. It's also not uncommon for male actors to receive personal trainers to develop sexy, muscular bodies for certain roles. Think of the movie 300. All those actors underwent rigorous workouts to develop the physiques they had in that movie.  




Dreamworx95 said:


> So he dragged me with him to go shopping for new clothes (He told me we were going out for food :???



Not a bad idea for your brother. I mean by that that it's not a bad idea for a guy to seek the advice and help of a young woman that might have a smarter eye for fashion or what may fit well on him. 



> ...we spent about an hour just looking for a pair of jeans and a shirt  that would fit him. He has gained a little bit of weight and he's gone  up about two sizes. Every shirt he tried on had him whining that he had  "man boobs" but he doesn't really - not big ones anyway, lol. We left  the store with a large sweatshirt and jeans.



Your brother might be gay. Either that or a womanish, heterosexual male. I don't mind browsing over clothing or even being selective about what I might purchase but I can only expend so much time doing it before I lose patience and interest. 

Your bro might consider doing pushup, jogging, and just take up working out in general. Not having "man boobs" is similar to not drowning in calm waters. Both are learned and requires the efforts of burning calories.


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## Die Oldhaetunde (Oct 11, 2011)

JosephB, clearly, you are an expert on feminine nervousness. Though something about your writing tells me that you are very concerned for the well-being of your daughters. It is very scary to think of one's own kin throwing up in the bathroom, simply to fulfill some outmoded view of "beauty".

I too, have quite a bit of nervousness in my life. As the original post mentioned, and you upheld, men are just as sensitive about body weight issues as women. I think it would be an insult to women, however, to think that women are only concerned about body issues, as well as unfair to exclude the general insecurities of men on a variety of other topics. There are quite a many things that people are insecure about.

But then, perhaps, since you know the original post so well(Never mind that the title of the original thread was simply, "Men are just as _insecure_ as women"!), perhaps you can keep us all straight an on the proper course, and fixated upon your distress at your daughter's future insecurities. After all, your daughter's well being is a very important topic, and well worth hijacking a simple thread.

I understand completely, and apologize profusely.


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## Transformation (Oct 11, 2011)

Not really, just some. Classifying everyone a certain way is a narrowsighted perspective.


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## JosephB (Oct 12, 2011)

Die Oldhaetunde said:


> JosephB, clearly, you are an expert on feminine nervousness. Though something about your writing tells me that you are very concerned for the well-being of your daughters. It is very scary to think of one's own kin throwing up in the bathroom, simply to fulfill some outmoded view of "beauty".
> 
> I too, have quite a bit of nervousness in my life. As the original post mentioned, and you upheld, men are just as sensitive about body weight issues as women. I think it would be an insult to women, however, to think that women are only concerned about body issues, as well as unfair to exclude the general insecurities of men on a variety of other topics. There are quite a many things that people are insecure about. That's a fine topic for a thread -- so feel free to start one.
> 
> ...



Yes. That’s the title of the thread is "Guys are just as insecure as girls" But if you read the entire OP, you can see that the focus of it is on _body type_. That’s made clear by this summation: “guys are just as insecure about their bodies as girls.” The anecdote is about body type as well. I usually take in the whole OP and consider that, even if some don’t.

So discussing the differences  between men’s and women’s attitudes about body type is hardly “hijacking” the thread.

 The other thing I see here that’s amusing to me is that some people seem to have a problem taking in any sort of qualifier. The thinking shifts immediately to black and white. I took care to qualify my comments with words like “more” and “tend to” –  these should suggest that I’m not saying body perception issues effect ONLY women or all women or even most women and that it’s NOT an issue for men. But this where people go. An no one is classifying EVERYONE a certain way. Plus, I made a post  that specifically said people in general suffer from a variety of insecurities caused by social pressures. People presumably meaning both men and women.

What I said originally was this:

“I think it would be fair to say women tend to be more insecure about their bodies.” (A response to the OP's statement: "guys are just as insecure about their bodies as girls.")

Does that mean I "think that women are only concerned about body issues" -- as you said? I don’t think so. Where did you get that? "Tend” and “more” mean something. 

While eating disorders among men and boys is likely under reported – that 90% of suffers are women does seem to indicate that women are more insecure about their bodies than men. Please keep in mind “more” means in some greater quantity or to some greater degree.

And of course -- there are plenty of articles that suggest the problems associated with body image are growing among men. I'm not disputing that. They show up as obsessive weight training or exercising  or steroid use – not necessarily as eating disorders. Still, studies indicate that _more_ women are dissatisfied with their bodies. They all vary -- but article after article citing studies about body image suggest women are MORE concerned about body image than men. One study, found here says, _"The percentage of women that considered their current body shape larger than the ideal is 66%, while only 38% of men considered their current body shape larger than their ideal."_ Other separate articles suggest that about 45 percent of men are unhappy with their bodies as opposed to 80 percent of women. They all vary – and a lot has to do with methodology, I'm sure – but if I'm off the mark on this,  then virtually everything out there is also wrong -- or way, way off.

I don’t expect people to read every post, but I’m suggesting that before you jump on the bandwagon and start  judging my comments, go by what I’m saying, instead of what other people think I’m saying. And you seem to think that because I mentioned my daughters, I'm locked into thinking that this is a girls and woman's issue only. I'm not. But certainly, based on available information and common sense, I have more (there's that tricking work again!) reason to be concerned. Mainly because the potential outcomes for women and girls are more likely to lead to serious health problems and even death. I’m in no way painting any gender with one broad brush or "insulting" anyone – far from it. Look into it for yourself and see what you come up with.


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## JosephB (Oct 12, 2011)

Writ-with-Hand said:


> This is one of your posts I totally disagree with. Okay... maybe not totally but 95%.



See above.


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## Die Oldhaetunde (Oct 12, 2011)

Yes, Of course, JosephB.


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