# WARNING: Thread discusses adult themesAt what point does violence become unnecessary?



## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

For my screenplay, a character is raped and then wants revenge on the villains and I wrote it so that the rape is shown.

A reader so far told me that he felt that the rape violence is totally unnecessary and should be cut.  However, if I cut it, I am wondering, will the reader/audience get behind the character's crazy revenge plan, if they do not actually experience the victimization along with the victim, in order to see the victim's push into mad revenge later on afterwards?

And if the revenge is shown but the victimization happens off screen, will the reader/audience think that's a double standard as well, for having it in you to show one and not the other?

Or maybe the will and I should cut the scene, but what do you think from the sound of it?

I use movies to compare, but a lot of times in movies, if they want the audience to suffer along with the victim, they will show a more violent victimization but it's not really necessary to the plot.

In Robocop (1987) for example: MINOR SPOILER FROM ROBOCOP ---


Murphy gets shot by the villains a lot, in order for us to feel more for him.  But you could argue it's not necessary to the plot and just have one quick instead death shot and then cut to the next scene and that's it.  Or would that make it worse?  Does all violence have to be necessary to the plot, or is it okay if it's not all necessary to the plot, and the reason why it's in there, is to feel more for a character?


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## Sir-KP (Nov 23, 2019)

Go with the logic.

Violence is unlimited. You can do the goriest thing to date. But remember, no sex organs and sexual conduct on screen.


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## BadHouses (Nov 23, 2019)

For a movie comparison consider checking out "I Spit on Your Grave."  You can even see how the subject is dealt with for modern audiences vs a 70s audience if you wanted, as there's a bunch of remakes.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

Oh okay, I saw the 2010 I Spit On Your Grave and then went back to the original and saw it before.  I actually thought that the rape violence went on for too long in those ones, and didn't want mine to be that long.  However, I did mention to other readers that other movies have had rape scenes in that were shown in order to get into the mindset of the victim more, and they responded by saying, that's why those movies never hit it with mainstream audiences and are not as popular, because they choose to show those scenes, rather than allude to.

Do you think they have a point there?


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## SueC (Nov 23, 2019)

Ironpony, I think writing about violence is really tricky.  I understand that wanting the audience to understand your character better, her motivations, you feel your readers need to know the truth, need to hear all about what happened.

Personally, violence is abhorrent to me. But when I am exposed to it through media or even the news, my focus is completely on the victim. How about, instead of being overly graphic in your depiction of the rape scene, you concentrate more on the effect of the violence on the victim. How did she go on? How did it change her, or did it lay her so low she couldn't function? 

Our world is violent, IP. We can't avoid it, so writing a rape scene, without including at least some details of the event, would not be valid. But, just personally, I don't think you have to go to the extent of "extreme" violence. Just a thought. Let us read some, huh? Good luck.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

Oh okay sure, thanks.  I could post it to read...  When you say including some details of the event, what do you mean by that?  If I show it, the details would be included, wouldn't they? As for showing the aftermath, I have that as well, it's just that I the story is tightly paced and not a lot of time goes by after the rape, until the revenge.  There is another subplot, with another character, that I cannot put on hold for to long, so the victim will have to get revenge not too long after the event, if that makes sense?

Also, even though I have some aftermath, can the readers experience the aftermath, properly, if the victimization is not shown to accompany that aftermath, if that makes sense?


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## Tomkat (Nov 23, 2019)

If I see such episode, I would think that's the atmosphere of the project. I would expect the rest of the work to be attuned with this atmosphere.

If that kind of violence is a one-time episode, it could mislead the readers/viewers.

Game Of Thrones (yeah, sorry super mainstream example but I don't watch much TV [I lied, I don't watch TV.. I watch movie thou!]) opens with a zombie eating up three guys and then Ned Stark decapitates a man. The rest of the show certainly keeps up with this atmosphere. (The books sure do.)

I would also advise to do not pick up "old" works as reference. Different generation, different audience.
Back then, that was the way to catch the attention of the viewer, to shock him and to hook him up onto the story. Also, that was what was possible with the tech of that time.

You can see that in the new Robocop, 2014, *MINOR SPOILER HERE*, they avoided to retake the same scene because now we wouldn't be so impressed by it. We've seen it already, over and over and explosions too. To make us feel "_sorry_" for Murphy, they had to show us properly what was left of him and introduce the drama with his family....

Same is for rapes. We got it, we know what you're talking about. We don't really need to see it again to understand the pain the victim goes through.
To cite old movies from one side of the genre to the other: 
In The Crow -1994, Eric Draven's girlfriend gets raped, they show us glimpse of it.
In The Gladiator -2000, Maximun Decimus Meridius' wife gets raped, we have the baddie emperor telling us about it. (perhaps just taunt, although very possible in those circumstances, yet we get the pain and the struggle nonetheless).


Since I don't know what voice your project has, I would summarize my advice into: "tune up the victimization concept with the rest of the script."


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## Irwin (Nov 23, 2019)

It all depends on your target audience. Some movies are nothing but violence from start to finish, and some of them are very popular. Personally, I get bored with it, because it's never believable, but other people like it. If that's your target audience, by all means include violent scenes. But if you're going more for character development and plot, you might want to use violence very sparingly.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

Tomkat said:


> If I see such episode, I would think that's the atmosphere of the project. I would expect the rest of the work to be attuned with this atmosphere.
> 
> If that kind of violence is a one-time episode, it could mislead the readers/viewers.
> 
> ...



That's actually interesting you say that cause when Robocop 2014 came out, fans of the original were very disappointed with how Murphy's death was not near as violent as the original.  I myself was okay, with but a lot of fans did not like this.

Well another thing I didn't specify is that for my story, it's female-on-male rape. So if it's a woman do I need to show how this went down? People are saying not to show it, and just allude to. So I show a woman approach a tied up man, with a penis pump for example, and then fade to the next scene, would that be enough? Or should I show more of the act?

Cause some readers are saying to avoid the penis pump, and that will just not be good to have in the scene for some reason. But what do you think?  Since female-on-male rape is more rare fiction, do I have to show the act to get more into the mindset of a male victim?  Or should I treat it the same way, and just skip over showing it and cut to after it's over?


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## Foxee (Nov 23, 2019)

ironpony said:


> if I cut it, I am wondering, will the reader/audience get behind the character's crazy revenge plan, if they do not actually experience the victimization along with the victim, in order to see the victim's push into mad revenge later on afterwards?


That's a good question. It could even be rephrased, maybe, as what causes the audience to have a high degree of empathy for a character and to root for them?

Oddly enough this question reminded me of Downton Abbey where a character who I really like is raped. She's fictional so why did I care?

A lot of time was spent on this character prior to the rape. How she did her job, her character as a person, her romance and eventual marriage with another member of the staff who I also liked, their frustrating struggle to start a family. She was easy to identify with as someone who, if she time-traveled to now, would be someone who any of us might know and like.

Once all of that groundwork was in place, things were going well, then the rape happened. Enough of it was shown to explain that it was brutal, more of it was heard and that was enough to break a hard heart.

Was it enough for me to decide that her revenge, if she had decided to take it, was warranted? I'm not sure, I know I wanted the guy caught and brought to justice and I wouldn't have minded her her ex-military husband had murdered the rapist.

But mainly I think that sympathy for the character is built on far more than the bad things that happen to them. That has to be there so that the bad things are considered to be really bad.


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## Tomkat (Nov 23, 2019)

ironpony said:


> That's actually interesting you say that cause when Robocop 2014 came out, fans of the original were very disappointed with how Murphy's death was not near as violent as the original.  I myself was okay, with but a lot of fans did not like this.



Like you said, "fans of the original."  They couldn't do it just to make happy the old fans, the original movie was almost 30 years old.... In 30 years you can have a son growing up in full manhood and have a kid of his own....
Is like what Disney said about the new Star Wars: they wanted to make new fans. 
Whatever they succeeded or not, or whatever any movie was good or not, everyone has his/her own opinion. Mickey Mouse cash it anyway.

I am still of the idea that different generation brings forth different audience.
i.e. a kid today with all these Marvels movies and John Wick, all these videogames and porn so easy at hand online, is way more difficult to shock and impress than a kid in the late 80s.

I did not know you were so explicit in your script.

It's true, woman on man is way more rare. 
I don't want to sound sexist or anything but it seems to ring like this:
man on woman = violence
woman on man = humiliation

I think that if you are going to show more sexual acts during the course of the script, then some explicit content could fit.
If not, if the pump is a single episode then the idea of a camera passing over showing different "instruments" of pleasure/torture may be enough to let the viewer understand what is going on.

Sometimes is not the act itself, it is the scar it leaves.
The trauma can inspire rage, sorrow, humiliation, withdraw from anything social and so on.
Your character doesn't retreat in a dark corner of the house, holding his knees and crying. He wants revenge. That's not because of the abuse in itself, that's how he personally reacts to the wound.
Perhaps in the script your character meets someone else who like him has been raped and that someone else is reacting to it in a very different way, more passive and dark with no intention of even seeing again the face of the abuser. 


May I ask what kind of "genre" your script is?
It may make a difference. 
A mystery/thriller.
A action-revenge movie.
A psychological drama.
Erotic.
Noir.



_Now I can't stop thinking about Austin Powers' Swedish-Made Penis Enlarger...._


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

I'd say the genre is more along the lines of psychological crime thriller probably.

I first wrote the script so that the rape was not shown. Then readers kept asking, did she rape him, and if so, how was she able to get him erect for this and rape him, or sexually assault him exactly?

So in order for readers to not be confused by this, and be able to grasp what happened, I wrote out the whole scene pretty much.

Now I am told by other readers that the scene is completely gratuitous and unnecessary and I should cut it. So how do I explain to the readers how she raped him exactly, if it's in poor taste to show any explanation? That's the paradox for me.


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## seigfried007 (Nov 23, 2019)

Write the darn thing already. You can retool it later via advice from betas. It'll get edited anyway.
Consider the genre and tailor the amount that's shown to what you've seen in similar films/stories.
When in doubt, leave far more by implication. Shadows on curtains and walls, noises, furniture falling over, whatever. Get the point across, but feel free to not give play-by-plays of penetration because the audience doesn't need that, doesn't need gratuitous detail.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

Okay thanks.  Well it's already written so I can just get further critique then, on how it is now, if that's best.


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## KenTR (Nov 23, 2019)

Rape is an abhorrent crime just about everybody is familiar with (not personally, thankfully), so there's no need to show the act itself. Like SueC said, concentrate of the victim. Put a little time aside to show the effect it has on her, immediate or otherwise. I suppose you can describe the events leading up to the act if you want to make your audience uncomfortable, but anything more always comes off to me as fetishistic. You don't want that.

"The Accused" did a decent job of showing the effects of rape on the victim without showing it until the end, in a courtroom drama flashback that functioned to implicate other characters involved in the crime, rather than as a device to inspire pathos for Jodie Foster's character. By that time, the audience was already already firmly rooted in her corner.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

The Accused actually showed quite a bit of the rape though, where as I am told I shouldn't show any of it, but just allude it only, which is tricky.


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## KenTR (Nov 23, 2019)

You'd have to do a bit more than allude to it, especially if it's going to be a significant plot point. 

If you show a hunched figure following a woman on a deserted street at night I think it's safe to assume he's not about to hit her up for loose change. I'm thinking that having him advance on and hit/restrain her would be well enough. Once you start showing him tearing her clothes off  you're entering another arena all together. 

Remember how The Accused opened with the victim's examination at the hospital, being driven home, and eventually, having problems with her boyfriend? Rape has a devastating effect on it's victims. Your female character isn't going to immediately start planning her revenge, unless she's some kind of Beatrix Kiddo badass. 

I've seen rape portrayed with subtlety in films before. If I can remember a title, I'll message it to you.

Also, depending on how the rape fits in with your timeline, you can portray it as a past event. Have her waking up from a nightmare or perhaps a scene where she's talking to a counsellor about it. The latter might be a good way to divulge as much information about the situation as you'd need.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

Oh okay thanks. Well it's not that the victim needs to get revenge right away, but if I delay it for too long, the subplot that connects with it, will not make sense, cause that subplot cannot be put on hold for very long I don't think.  But I can have the victim go through the aftermath events for about a couple of weeks, if that's enough?


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## KenTR (Nov 23, 2019)

ironpony said:


> But I can have the victim go through the aftermath events for about a couple of weeks, if that's enough?



Sure. Some victims go through it their whole lives.


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## seigfried007 (Nov 23, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay thanks. Well it's not that the victim needs to get revenge right away, but if I delay it for too long, the subplot that connects with it, will not make sense, cause that subplot cannot be put on hold for very long I don't think.  But I can have the victim go through the aftermath events for about a couple of weeks, if that's enough?


Delay it as long as you need to. You can always allude to things in flashbacks. Intrusive thoughts. Fantasies. Dialogue. The usual stuff. Rape victims may take a long time to even remember events sometimes. Alternatively, they might go for blood immediately. It's up to the person and the circumstances. That rape could've taken place twenty years ago before the victim exacts revenge. Don't worry about time gaps, just bridge them somehow.


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## ironpony (Nov 23, 2019)

And of course my character will probably still go through it, way after the story is over, it's just that he will have to seek revenge rather quickly in order for the subplot to line up with the rest of the main plot.


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## Ma'am (Nov 23, 2019)

ironpony said:


> ...A reader so far told me that he felt...



Here is what I keep seeing in your posts that makes me wonder if you could use more confidence in your own vision for your work.

I'd listen to anything anyone said about my work because you never know who will notice something you didn't. But then I put aside any suggestions that *I *don't agree with, and it's not unusual for that to be well over half of them.

I'd give it a second thought _if_ a second person has an issue with the same thing _or_ if the person giving this advice is actually well published themselves or etc. All opinions are not equal, nor are they necessarily better than yours. 

And in the end, I'd still go with what *I* thought, after hearing them out. The only exception to that, for me, _might_ be if the advice giver was an agent or editor who was considering taking me/it on.

ETA: Also, you might want to continue posting in the workshop. You'll get much more direct suggestions if people can read what, exactly, you want help with.


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## EthanWarwright (Nov 23, 2019)

I haven't read your story, but I don't necessarily have an issue with you depicting the rape as long as it has a meaningful impact on the story. Gratuitous violence for the sake of gratuitous violence in a story is generally undesirable, at least in my opinion, and the same goes for things like rape as well. However it seems to me that in your case the rape is VERY pertinent to the development of the plot, and so I think it's perfectly reasonable to include it. I would advise not getting into graphic detail though. That can become rather distasteful.


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## ironpony (Nov 24, 2019)

Oh okay thanks.  When I said at what point is vioience unnecessary, I was referring more to sexual violence, since I don't think I go too overboard with the non-sexual violience I don't think.  I can write it both ways, one where the rape scene is alluded to, and one where it is shown.  For the version where it's not shown, since it's a screenplay, what if I wrote it so that the rapist approaches the victim with a penis pump and then it fades to the next scene, after the rape is over.  Would the reader/audience understand what happened from that?


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## Dluuni (Nov 24, 2019)

Major issue is that with rape, about 20% or so of your potential audience might be traumatized enough that they will avoid the film. There are TV shows that I have to walk out of the house when certain scenes come up. And you can't predict what aspects are going to be the ones that make them clock out.


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## bazz cargo (Nov 24, 2019)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/writersroom/opportunities/introduction-to-screenwriting

Like most questions about writing, screen writing more than most kinds, this is all down to the story. Graphic violence is popular for some, not for others. Consider Miss Marple. A cosy, teatime, amateur  detective with a murder to solve. Then look at Die Hard. You write what you will to make the story work and then it will find a niche, somewhere. 
Good luck
BC


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## seigfried007 (Nov 24, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay thanks.  When I said at what point is vioience unnecessary, I was referring more to sexual violence, since I don't think I go too overboard with the non-sexual violience I don't think.  I can write it both ways, one where the rape scene is alluded to, and one where it is shown.  For the version where it's not shown, since it's a screenplay, what if I wrote it so that the rapist approaches the victim with a penis pump and then it fades to the next scene, after the rape is over.  Would the reader/audience understand what happened from that?


They would, but they might also laugh because a penis pump is ridiculous.

Hence, I suggested you do yourself some implication in other ways--shadows on curtains and walls and floors, falling furniture, crashing noises, grunting, gaslighting horrible dialogue, sounds of restraints clinking, struggling, gurgling, choking, whimpering, crying, slurred speech, pills clattering on the floorboards, a strangely wet amber longneck beer bottle rolls across the floor, groaning of springs. Throw enough of that stuff in, and people get the idea without you having to fade-to-black or show it directly. 

But, you have to consider how cozy your screenplay is--Miss Marple or Die Hard? If you're going for dark and gritty, feel free to show it. Worst case, it can get edited out later.


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## KenTR (Nov 24, 2019)

seigfried007 said:


> shadows on curtains and walls and floors, falling furniture, crashing noises, grunting, gaslighting horrible dialogue, sounds of restraints clinking, struggling, gurgling, choking, whimpering, crying, slurred speech, pills clattering on the floorboards, a strangely wet amber longneck beer bottle rolls across the floor, groaning of springs.



Mmmm. Say that again...slower this time..


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## ironpony (Nov 24, 2019)

seigfried007 said:


> They would, but they might also laugh because a penis pump is ridiculous.
> 
> Hence, I suggested you do yourself some implication in other ways--shadows on curtains and walls and floors, falling furniture, crashing noises, grunting, gaslighting horrible dialogue, sounds of restraints clinking, struggling, gurgling, choking, whimpering, crying, slurred speech, pills clattering on the floorboards, a strangely wet amber longneck beer bottle rolls across the floor, groaning of springs. Throw enough of that stuff in, and people get the idea without you having to fade-to-black or show it directly.
> 
> But, you have to consider how cozy your screenplay is--Miss Marple or Die Hard? If you're going for dark and gritty, feel free to show it. Worst case, it can get edited out later.



Yeah that's true, it could be edited later, it's just that in order to attract readers to the script in the first place, I was told to cut the scene out entirely.  But at the same time, still try to come up with an explanation for how she gets the guy erect.  So I couldn't think of another implication, other than a penis pump, to make it more clear.  But I don't want to inspire unwanted laughs either.  But I feel like the readers are asking to have their cake and eat it too though, cause they say not to show the scene, but still explained how it happened.  I am happy to give them their cake and and have them eat it too, just not sure how.  But I don't think images of beer bottles an shadows is enough though, cause they want an explanation of the erection, they said.


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## seigfried007 (Nov 24, 2019)

I'm gonna show you how to set a scene using nothing but some of that gaslighting horrible dialogue. 



KenTR said:


> Mmmm. Say that again...slower this time..


[disc]*Trigger warning: harsh language.*[/disc]

You asked for it.

I can't help it; you're so beautiful.
I know you want it.
_You_ know you want it.

Aw,_ there you go_.

Oh, would you look at _that?_ He _likes_ it!

Oh, look, he's _crying._ Come on, man. Only p****** cry, and if you cry like a p****, you're bound to get f***** like one. 
Big, fat, f***** tears like that, you're practically begging for it. 
Cry all you want; nobody's gonna hear you, you little f*****. 
Ain't nobody gonna hear you. Nobody out here but me and you. 
Well, if you're gonna _cry_ about it like a little b****, _cry harder._ Lemme know how much you _like _it. 
Go on now, you little p****; _get loud for me._ Yeah, _that's it_; cry harder for Daddy, you little p****.

You know you wanted that. 
You know you liked it. 
Just look at all the mess you made.


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## seigfried007 (Nov 24, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Yeah that's true, it could be edited later, it's just that in order to attract readers to the script in the first place, I was told to cut the scene out entirely.  But at the same time, still try to come up with an explanation for how she gets the guy erect.  So I couldn't think of another implication, other than a penis pump, to make it more clear.  But I don't want to inspire unwanted laughs either.  But I feel like the readers are asking to have their cake and eat it too though, cause they say not to show the scene, but still explained how it happened.  I am happy to give them their cake and and have them eat it too, just not sure how.  But I don't think images of beer bottles an shadows is enough though, cause they want an explanation of the erection, they said.



Then _do some research_. Look into prostate stimulation.

Or have him raped by another man. Readers will take that seriously. And it's far more humiliating for the guy, from what I understand. If a woman does it, she's at least using him like a guy. He might almost be able to construe it as a compliment when he's rationalizing it all to himself afterward. But if a man uses him like a woman... that's humiliating (and likely physically painful) on a different level. A man's likely to be embarrassed about getting used by a woman, but if he's violated by another guy--well, welcome to what women have to go through everywhere--never feeling safe in his own skin ever again--and on top of feeling like his man card's been snitched.

If another guy does it, that rationalization isn't going to happen, and your victim doesn't have to have an erection to get raped. No explanation needed at all; everyone knows it was awful; everyone cringes and understands why the victim can't feel safe and might go on a revenge quest. Makes total sense.


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## ironpony (Nov 24, 2019)

Well I didn't really want him raped by a man, cause I thought that a woman perpetrator/villain would be more interesting.


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## seigfried007 (Nov 24, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Well I didn't really want him raped by a man, cause I thought that a woman perpetrator/villain would be more interesting.



I think you've got enough other crap going on in your screenplay. Male-male rape is a very real problem that a great number of men have to deal with. Female-male rape isn't such a big societal problem. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, not saying it isn't a big deal for the victim, just that it doesn't happen anywhere near as often, doesn't tend to be violent, doesn't tend to happen as you seem to be wanting it to happen for your screenplay. Women tend to seduce more than rape; they tend to go after softer methods for most crimes. And I have a much harder time seeing a man going on some gnarly lethal revenge quest for a woman raping him. I mean, she'd have to do it in such a gnarly, nasty way *somehow* to get that sort of violent reaction out of a guy. Violent reactions tend to happen in response to other violent actions. Victims aren't likely to kill their rapists anyway, so I'd imagine this would have to be some hellacious rape to get that sort of reaction in the first place (either he's presently threatened and in fear of his life, or said trauma happened awhile ago, but he's still in fear of and enraged by said perpetrator (for instance, she's threatened to claim he raped her, to ruin his livelihood, to tell some outlandish lie and ruin him). Self-preservation can tip someone over the edge to violence.


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## ironpony (Nov 24, 2019)

Okay thanks, well I was planning on it being violent and hellacious if that's better?  What other crap do I have going on the script?


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## BornForBurning (Nov 24, 2019)

this thread is something else lmao


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## seigfried007 (Nov 24, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks, well I was planning on it being violent and hellacious if that's better?  What other crap do I have going on the script?



A violent rape isn't better than any other kind of rape. They're all awful. The issue is "What's most likely to get your plot and character where they need to be for your story?" You only need to make something as violent or graphic as it needs to be within regards to genre expectations and making sure it gets across to the reader/viewer. A violent or particularly humiliating rape may be necessary to get your character over the edge of civility and into revenge. If it's not, then that's okay. No big deal. Get to know your character, then figure out what you need to do to him to make him do what you need him to for the plot. 

You have the rest of the plot to worry about. That's the other "crap" you have going on ("crap" in this case just means "stuff;" I'm not using it as denigrating to the quality). There's an entire screenplay to worry about, and from the look of all the threads you put out, you're worried about and second guessing nigh on everything in the entire screenplay.


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## ironpony (Nov 24, 2019)

Yep for sure, thanks.  I meant is a violent one better, in the sense that it might push the main character into taking more drastic action later in the story.  Perhaps he needs it if his action needs to be drastic.  What about a movie like The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo for example?  In both versions of the movie, the Swedish and American one, they show sections of the rape in both, and I am wondering they chose not to show any of it and cut it out entirely, would the audience still grasp the revenge that followed, the same way?


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## Sir-KP (Nov 24, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay thanks.  When I said at what point is vioience unnecessary, I was referring more to sexual violence



To take this question as a standalone, apparently we are talking about sexual violence. Depicting too much graphically it will become pornography (especially when you're dealing with visual) - even though it's violent. However in motion picture, you still have other elements to bring the scene up under censor with camera angles and sound.

Let's say, someone is being violently murdered and butchered. You don't need to bring up the butchering scene visually. You can censor it by only shooting the murderer's face in close-up or silhouette or just simply sound effect of meat chopping and scream from outside the scene location, e.g: the killer's shack.


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## ironpony (Nov 24, 2019)

Oh okay thanks.  Would a rape scene count as pornography if no nudity was depicted during it?


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## Tim (Nov 24, 2019)

Hi ironpony,

I wrestled this same problem. I stuck with it and it worked out reasonably (still needs work) after many re-writes. My story needed it and that was that.

I would like to draw your attention to an interesting fact it unearthed: "A lot of men do not believe it's possible for a woman to rape a man."

This may help you. Check this thread (ADULT CONTENT WARNING.) https://www.writingforums.com/threads/181413-Difficult-Scene-language-adult-content 

For credibility's sake, I had him say he doesn't believe it's possible, and she explains and demonstrates it.

Please excuse the poor writing and good luck.


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## ironpony (Nov 25, 2019)

Oh okay thanks, I read.  Well this is why I thought for mine maybe a penis pump is best, cause then readers won't disbelief the guy getting an erection under forced circumstances then.


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## Newman (Nov 25, 2019)

ironpony said:


> For my screenplay, a character is raped and then wants revenge on the villains and I wrote it so that the rape is shown.
> 
> *A reader so far told me that he felt that the rape violence is totally unnecessary and should be cut*.  However, if I cut it, I am wondering, will the reader/audience get behind the character's crazy revenge plan, if they do not actually experience the victimization along with the victim, in order to see the victim's push into mad revenge later on afterwards?
> 
> ...



IMO ignore it. It's just one reader. Every note will pull up different things. Go with your gut and your story.


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## Sir-KP (Nov 25, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Oh okay thanks.  Would a rape scene count as pornography if no nudity was depicted during it?



Pornography is baring it all graphically through imagery or textual. 

If it isn't then it's only suggestive.

I mean, c'mon. If the logic goes like that, then every violence-involved movie would be R-rated for extreme gore despite not showing any.


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## ironpony (Nov 25, 2019)

Yes, I see what you mean.  I never thought of the rape scene as pornographic but perhaps it reads that way...  I just wanted wrote it in detail for two reasons:

1.  To convey how the rapist was able to pull it off, and what had to be done specifically.

2.  The emotional state the victim was in, in order to get into the revenge mindset more later.


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## Dluuni (Nov 25, 2019)

People with testosterone will get hard from all sorts of things that normally work, regardless of consent or desire. You don't need a pump.


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## ironpony (Nov 25, 2019)

Okay, but the readers didn't believe this, and they said I had to put in some sort of explanation for it.  They said that did not understand, or found it unbelievable, that a kidnapped man would get an erection, when the kidnapper has a gun also.  So how could I convey it to the reader then?  Plus what is it about the pump that's bad?  Is it offensive as an explanation?


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## Sir-KP (Nov 25, 2019)

ironpony said:


> Okay, but the readers didn't believe this, and they said I had to put in some sort of explanation for it.  They said that did not understand, or found it unbelievable, that a kidnapped man would get an erection, when the kidnapper has a gun also.  So how could I convey it to the reader then?  Plus what is it about the pump that's bad?  Is it offensive as an explanation?



That means they are lacking knowledge and your readers need to shut up. 

Would you really prefer 'penis pump' over 'rushing testosterone' as the reason of this character having an erection?

You're doing a violence-themed story, not erotica.


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## ironpony (Nov 25, 2019)

Well I don't mind the pump if it makes things more clear for some readers, if that's the case, it's just I don't understand how a rapist using a penis pump makes the rape more erotic.  What's more erotic about that?


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## Bayview (Nov 25, 2019)

You have been asking variations on this question for almost FOUR YEARS (that I'm aware of) and you've been getting the same answers the whole time and you're still asking. - https://www.writingforums.org/threads/question-about-writing-this-rape-sexual-assault-scene.144164/

It's starting to feel like a weird piece of performance art. I really think it's time to move on.


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