# Damn the World (language)



## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 19, 2012)

Dammit, dammit, damn the world!
Damn the world and all its hate,
All its cruelness,
All its pain.
I used to be a child.
I used to be a kid.
I used to have a life.
Then the world introduced itself.
And it beat me down and broke my heart.
It ripped the innocence from my body
It twisted children,
Polluted their minds.
Made them grow up to fast.
Damn this world that shuns.
That snuffs out any light.
That stuffs its people with temporary pleasure.
That robs the innocence of girls.
That grows monsters inside of men.
This sick, twisted, demented, horrible world.
That creates forced normalities.
That has drowned out hope.
And left a dark empty hole where it once was.
Dammit, dammit, damn the world!
Damn the world and all within it.


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## shedpog329 (Jan 19, 2012)

wrong crowd?


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## Jon M (Jan 19, 2012)

Needs work.


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 19, 2012)

shedpog329 said:


> wrong crowd?


 . . .what?



			
				johnM said:
			
		

> Needs work.


 Agreed, but please be more specific or don't post.


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## Jon M (Jan 19, 2012)

S.M. grimbldoo said:


> Agreed, but please be more specific or don't post.


The reason I didn't elaborate is because of the strong impression I got that my time would be wasted. I am still getting that impression.

But here's a little of what I mean: the first five lines, just as an example, are so muddled in abstract language that they completely fail to interest me as a reader. There is no imagery, nothing specific. Hate, pain, cruelty -- these words have many thousands of _specific_ manifestations. The power of writing is in _specific details_, calling attention to a _specific moment in time_.


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## Kevin (Jan 20, 2012)

johnM said:


> The reason I didn't elaborate is because of the strong impression I got that my time would be wasted. I am still getting that impression.
> 
> But here's a little of what I mean: the first five lines, just as an example, are so muddled in abstract language that they completely fail to interest me as a reader. There is no imagery, nothing specific. Hate, pain, cruelty -- these words have many thousands of _specific_ manifestations. The power of writing is in _specific details_, calling attention to a _specific moment in time_.



...and, what else?


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 20, 2012)

johnM said:


> The reason I didn't elaborate is because of the strong impression I got that my time would be wasted. I am still getting that impression.
> 
> But here's a little of what I mean: the first five lines, just as an example, are so muddled in abstract language that they completely fail to interest me as a reader. There is no imagery, nothing specific. Hate, pain, cruelty -- these words have many thousands of _specific_ manifestations. The power of writing is in _specific details_, calling attention to a _specific moment in time_.


 Your impression is correct only because you made it correct. I asked you to specify, you did not have to be rude about it. I agree that there is power in being specific but poetry isn't always specific, and as an effect, it is able to reach a wider group of people because the muddled words have multiple meanings that can be applied multiple ways.


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## Gumby (Jan 20, 2012)

Civility Gentlemen, please. 

Grimbldoo, I think that the repeated words are a bit much here, they distract rather than add to the feeling. In other words, I find myself thinking, " there are a lot of damns here", instead of absorbing what you are actually saying. Which is a shame because the content is actually something most of us can agree with wholeheartedly.


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 21, 2012)

Gumby said:


> Civility Gentlemen, please.
> 
> Grimbldoo, I think that the repeated words are a bit much here, they distract rather than add to the feeling. In other words, I find myself thinking, " there are a lot of damns here", instead of absorbing what you are actually saying. Which is a shame because the content is actually something most of us can agree with wholeheartedly.


 Thank you Gumby. I agree, the word damn is used a lot, but the speaker, as you can see, is angry at the world. So I think to keep the whole emotion of the speaker the damns will have to stay.

p.s grimbldoo is lowercase


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## Chesters Daughter (Jan 21, 2012)

Sorry, love, but I agree with Cindy. You've some good bones here but they're buried beneath all those damns. The constant repetition is robbing them of their impact in my humble opinion, and as Cindy said, the reader is so overwhelmed, the good stuff is not sinking in as well as it could be. Your piece, your decision. Perhaps you would consider eliminating just a few to let the rest of your words shine, or select an additional word to express the extent of the anger to break up the repetition a bit.

Best,
Lisa


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 21, 2012)

Chester's Daughter said:


> Sorry, love, but I agree with Cindy. You've some good bones here but they're buried beneath all those damns. The constant repetition is robbing them of their impact in my humble opinion, and as Cindy said, the reader is so overwhelmed, the good stuff is not sinking in as well as it could be. Your piece, your decision. Perhaps you would consider eliminating just a few to let the rest of your words shine, or select an additional word to express the extent of the anger to break up the repetition a bit.
> 
> Best,
> Lisa


The more I come back to read this the more I agree with you and Gumby.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 21, 2012)

Vagueness doesn't let more people relate to it -- it makes it easier to brush off.

Specificity to the point that it feels real and we experience some specific tangible event is what makes something broadly relatable. Also, subtlety can help make the anger stronger.

In other words, compare what you have: "Dammit, dammit, damn the world! / Damn the world and all its hate, /  All its cruelness, / All its pain."

with the opening panels of the graphic novel _Watchmen_.  "Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. / The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. / The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!" ... / ... and I'll look down and whisper "no.""

It has the exact same message as yours, but it gives us a little bit of a story, it gives us very specific (shocking) imagery, and it's got some (a little) subtlety to the way it presents the POV character's attitude. Same message, but I can feel it more viscerally from the graphic novel because of the added specificity and imagery. The imagery is shocking to the point that it makes me react emotionally. Also because it's been attached to a story.

Anyway, good start -- keep it up, maybe a little revising, and it'd get a better reaction.


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 21, 2012)

j.w.olson said:


> Vagueness doesn't let more people relate to it -- it makes it easier to brush off.
> 
> Specificity to the point that it feels real and we experience some specific tangible event is what makes something broadly relatable. Also, subtlety can help make the anger stronger.
> 
> ...


 Actually those have different meanings, but the emotions are close. As I stated before, I agree with specific = stronger, but also as I said before poetry does not have to be specific and it tends not to. Your argument is valid but it does not belong here.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 22, 2012)

S.M. grimbldoo said:


> Actually those have different meanings, but the emotions are close. As I stated before, I agree with specific = stronger, but also as I said before poetry does not have to be specific and it tends not to. Your argument is valid but it does not belong here.



Ah, see, you misunderstand. I'm telling you that I did get the same message from the two. And I'm telling you that being specific is always better. I'm telling you that good poetry does tend to be specific -- newer and underdeveloped poets tend to write vaguely. You can disagree -- that's fine -- but telling people who've taken the time to read your poem, think about it, and offer constructive criticism that their effort "does not belong here" is really not the best way to go.

In other words, I didn't get much of a reaction from reading your poem as is. Assuming you want to cause a reaction in readers like me, specificity and strong imagery will make a difference. If you don't want readers like me to like it, keep turning away those giving advice.


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 22, 2012)

j.w.olson said:


> Ah, see, you misunderstand. I'm telling you that I did get the same message from the two. And I'm telling you that being specific is always better. I'm telling you that good poetry does tend to be specific -- newer and underdeveloped poets tend to write vaguely. You can disagree -- that's fine -- but telling people who've taken the time to read your poem, think about it, and offer constructive criticism that their effort "does not belong here" is really not the best way to go.
> 
> In other words, I didn't get much of a reaction from reading your poem as is. Assuming you want to cause a reaction in readers like me, specificity and strong imagery will make a difference. If you don't want readers like me to like it, keep turning away those giving advice.


 I did not intend to say that your argument was invalid, it isn't, it's just that these sort of debates don't really belong in this area. I can personally argue that I once read a song that related to what was happening in my life because it withheld detail that would have restrained it to a certain situation in the writers own life, but instead was very general, or vague. And please try not to get to personal because, you probably weren't even trying to be, I felt that your last sentence was a little rude.


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## j.w.olson (Jan 22, 2012)

You don't want my feedback -- I'll go.


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 23, 2012)

j.w.olson said:


> You don't want my feedback -- I'll go.


 I am sorry you believe that. 

Farewell


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## saintenitouche (Jan 24, 2012)

I think that if you want to post a piece you need to be more open to criticism and altering your work to find your happy ending, grumbldoo. You've got some fine and perhaps nicer-than-usual comments here with good advice on how to improve your work and really convert your particular thoughts into poetic verse. It seems to me that you are too keen on your own work (which isn't necessarily a problem unless you can't gain a support base) and you are coming up with constant excuses to keep the work the way it is. Now, I am no fan of putting 'the man' into artwork and I don't play by the rules but it seems to me that the piece you have here is less like a poem and more like a tirade. Not because of its lack of rhythm or element but because you seemed to have put absolutely no thought into this at all. Hey, I could be wrong. Maybe you sat there forever and thought about it... but what the "style" of writing suggests is that you just beat out a complaint and called it a poem. My advice is to sit down and really think about what made you write this, you don't have to be specific if you don't want to. Or you could do something I'm fond of and try your hand at surrealism and hide what your saying behind other things, with relevance of course. You really need to get to know yourself to be a poet, or better yet, get intimate with what you don't have a friggen clue about and you'll find yourself getting some real intense, passionate results. Good luck, and maybe try looking through some of these other replies (you've got alot of them!)


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## Kevin (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't know anything about rules or forms but I know strong theme when I see it. "Damn.." is curse, lament and command, all at once. He(the protag?is that how you refer to the speaker?) is feeling pain of loss, pain at injuries he sees being perpetrated. It's like a cruel trick has been pulled. He's seen behind the curtain. There is no santa, and people generally suck. "Specificity", okay, but can you not come up with your own images as easily as if he were to say blue sky? Do you need examples? I just pose the question , not offer a challenge. Loss of innocense, like the fall from eden, etc. good strong stuff. Format? I'm not trained, but it does convey emotion. 
and... go easy...

nit; add o to to= "...too fast"


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 24, 2012)

saintenitouche said:


> I think that if you want to post a piece you need to be more open to criticism and altering your work to find your happy ending, grumbldoo. You've got some fine and perhaps nicer-than-usual comments here with good advice on how to improve your work and really convert your particular thoughts into poetic verse. It seems to me that you are too keen on your own work (which isn't necessarily a problem unless you can't gain a support base) and you are coming up with constant excuses to keep the work the way it is. Now, I am no fan of putting 'the man' into artwork and I don't play by the rules but it seems to me that the piece you have here is less like a poem and more like a tirade. Not because of its lack of rhythm or element but because you seemed to have put absolutely no thought into this at all. Hey, I could be wrong. Maybe you sat there forever and thought about it... but what the "style" of writing suggests is that you just beat out a complaint and called it a poem. My advice is to sit down and really think about what made you write this, you don't have to be specific if you don't want to. Or you could do something I'm fond of and try your hand at surrealism and hide what your saying behind other things, with relevance of course. You really need to get to know yourself to be a poet, or better yet, get intimate with what you don't have a friggen clue about and you'll find yourself getting some real intense, passionate results. Good luck, and maybe try looking through some of these other replies (you've got alot of them!)


 I acknowledge that I am very arrogant, and at my stage it is a fatal flaw, but I do receive criticism as you can see by my responses. I stated that I agreed with their statements as they were true, but I did not feel that it applied to my post. And if you look at the earlier posts, as you advised me to do, you can see that I accepted the criticism and altered my poem accordingly. It is true that I did not think much when writing this poem. Though I can relate to this poem, It is not from my perspective. I am not sure I would call this a complaint, though it can be. I have no real reason to write this, I hardly have reasons when writing.

It may just be me, but it seams to me that when I reply to a comment, and I even go to some lengths to tell the poster that I do not find their argument invalid or unhelpful (I even sometimes state that their critique is helpful) but I decide no to adjust my writings due to personal preference, I am often misunderstood and my reply is taken personally or a third party attempts to correct me.

Thank you for your concern saintenitouche

p.s it's grimbldoo not grumbldoo, adjacent keys


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 24, 2012)

Kevin said:


> "Damn.." is curse, lament and command, all at once. He...is feeling pain of loss, pain at injuries he sees being perpetrated. It's like a cruel trick has been pulled.


 Thank you for that Kevin, I didn't quite notice that myself.


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## jed (Jan 24, 2012)

My goodness gimbldoo that last line you added is a bit catty :clown:  I certainly hope you don't include us poor cows!  Really though you simply must NOT use abstractions in your writing!  What was that you said about "forced normalities"?  I like to think of it as, "You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat".  Any way keep the claws in and the pen stroking.  P.S.  If you were here I'd give you a belly rub :icon_joker:


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 25, 2012)

jed said:


> My goodness gimbldoo that last line you added is a bit catty :clown:  I certainly hope you don't include us poor cows!  Really though you simply must NOT use abstractions in your writing!  What was that you said about "forced normalities"?  I like to think of it as, "You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat".  Any way keep the claws in and the pen stroking.  P.S.  If you were here I'd give you a belly rub :icon_joker:


 I am not sure if abstracts are a must not, though they do often confuse. If you look at E.E. Cummings, a lot of his stuff is hard to understand, he even went to jail because they thought that his poetry was secret code, though this is not exactly related to the subject at hand. 
You made me laugh, thanks for that.


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## JRBurgher (Jan 28, 2012)

I actually like this.  Although I don't agree with the cruelty of the world as much as I question the motives of mankind, its raw form is more stream-of-consciousness which one would associate with raw emotion.  To refine it and process it into something more agreeable is to take away from its character.

We all need to look at this from the point of view that maybe it's not written for us.  The author of this kind of poetry writes it for himself (or herself, to be fair). It's not there to please others.  Until one has actually been there, they really can't relate to it.  

As the reader, one has to see this through the author's eyes as best as possible.  It's a window to someone else's reality.

That being said, I have trouble relating to it personally, but I respect and enjoy having shared your point of view.

JRB


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 28, 2012)

JRBurgher said:


> I actually like this.  Although I don't agree with the cruelty of the world as much as I question the motives of mankind, its raw form is more stream-of-consciousness which one would associate with raw emotion.  To refine it and process it into something more agreeable is to take away from its character.
> 
> We all need to look at this from the point of view that maybe it's not written for us.  The author of this kind of poetry writes it for himself (or herself, to be fair). It's not there to please others.  Until one has actually been there, they really can't relate to it.
> 
> ...


 Thank you JRB. I agree, whenever I read someone else's poetry, I always try to see from their prospective before I critique.


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## shedpog329 (Jan 29, 2012)

whoa


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## S.M. grimbldoo (Jan 29, 2012)

shedpog329 said:


> whoa


 Shedpog329, could you please be more specific, otherwise this is simply bumping a thread which is frowned upon.


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