# When can you say that you're a writer?



## NineShadowEyes (Jan 27, 2015)

After you've finished a first draft of an entire story? Once someone's paid you for your work? When you quit your job and write full time?

Just curious.


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## J.T. Chris (Jan 27, 2015)

When the trash bin beside your desk contains more empty beer bottles and cigarette ash than wrinkled manuscript pages, you just might be a writer.


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## shadowwalker (Jan 27, 2015)

When you write on a somewhat regular basis.


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## Bishop (Jan 27, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> When you write on a somewhat regular basis.



Agreed. But really, you can call yourself anything you want


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## Sam (Jan 27, 2015)

A writer is someone who writes. If you write, you're a writer. 

The question you want answered is: "When can you call yourself an author?" 

When someone has paid you for something you've written.


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## dale (Jan 27, 2015)

Bishop said:


> Agreed. But really, you can call yourself anything you want



lol. people in the arts do this more than anyone else. a girl working as a diner waitress in hollywood calls herself an actress
because she's trying to be an actress. a musician in a band who works in a factory for a living will still call himself a musician
because he is one. i sometimes do construction and labor work for a living, but i call myself a writer because that's what i 
consider myself foremost. people in the arts are privileged like that. ha ha


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## shadowwalker (Jan 27, 2015)

Writer = author

Getting paid has nothing to do with it. As I've noted before, making a distinction is ego, not fact. 

And yes, Bishop, one can call themselves anything they wish.


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## Boofy (Jan 27, 2015)

If people who work in Subway can call themselves Sandwich Artists and people who work for Apple are called Geniuses, anything is acceptable ^^


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## Bishop (Jan 27, 2015)

I am now Galactic President of the Wilky Way.

I'll begin conversing with leaders of other galaxies and let you all know what's in store for intergalactic foreign policy.


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## GenkiWorld (Jan 27, 2015)

If you can write and actually can show for it then you can call yourself a writer. When the ideas are driving you crazy and your room is filled with drafts, prompts and unfinished ideas, when your computer is filled with works on progress, drafts and much more then you can all yourself a writer.
When you often write online, be it in social media, forums, or blogs, you are a writer. When the muses inspire you and you can come up with a good piece of writing in a split second then you are writer. A finished draft, a published work, paid work doesn’t make us writers. We make ourselves in to writers the moment we pick up a pen and write something up.


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## Boofy (Jan 27, 2015)

Zaphod Beeblebrox isn't going to be easy to handle, just a heads up Bish. ;3


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## Sam (Jan 27, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> Writer = author
> 
> Getting paid has nothing to do with it. As I've noted before, making a distinction is ego, not fact.
> 
> And yes, Bishop, one can call themselves anything they wish.



Ego has nothing to do with it. 

Does someone doing a diploma call themselves a PhD student? Does a PhD student call him/herself a professor? 

There are degrees of status in all professions. You won't see a doctor call themselves a surgeon because they picked up a scalpel, will you? And while writer and author are largely interchangeable, the latter has been used for quite some time as a distinction between someone who writes for a hobby and someone who gets paid to write. That's not my, or anyone else's, ego doing the talking. 

That isn't me disparaging any writer of any level, age, or status either. I'm not exactly James Patterson. I'm just advising someone of the distinction as it (whether unfortunately or otherwise) exists.


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## dale (Jan 27, 2015)

hey. if a man can call himself a woman just because he puts on a little make up and says he's one, i guess anything is possible.


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## shadowwalker (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm sorry, Sam, but when you make the distinction between payment and non-payment, you perpetuate the egotism. I have not made one red cent on my writing as yet, but I am an author. The sooner people quit stating this faux distinction, the sooner it will disappear.

Emporer, new clothes...


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## MamaStrong (Jan 27, 2015)

Good Question. I consider myself a writer because I write often. I'll consider myself an author, once I've sold work. No real reason I view it that way, just sounds right in my mind.


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## Sam (Jan 27, 2015)

Okay, so then by that logic you're also a maid if you use a hoover; a soldier if you drive a truck in a war-zone; a chef if you cook a meal. 

Sorry, it doesn't parse, and I'm not perpetuating anything.


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## dale (Jan 27, 2015)

i'm a writer and an author. i have the WF award medals to prove it.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm obviously not an author and though I've written over a hundred thousand words in the last six months I'm not really a writer either. Somehow I think that's a distinction you earn in time.

I guess for now you can call me a writer in training


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## Pluralized (Jan 27, 2015)

NineShadowEyes said:


> After you've finished a first draft of an entire story? Once someone's paid you for your work? When you quit your job and write full time?
> 
> Just curious.



Any time you damn well please. One of those funny pastimes; unlike a surgeon, calling yourself a writer (even if you're not terribly skilled at it) harms no one.


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## dale (Jan 27, 2015)

this is my honest OPINION on the matter, and it is pretty much just my belief on it. one day a few years ago i thought,
 "i'm gonna try to be a writer". so i sat down and pounded out that 1st short story. when i was done, i read it. at the precise
moment, i did consider myself a writer. BUT...it's not something i would have ever said out loud back then, because it
wasn't something i really had concrete proof to back up. if someone would have asked "what do you do?" i wouldn't have
mentioned the word "writer", even though i thought of myself as 1. because i knew the next question would be something
along the lines of, "oh really? where can i read your work?" and i would have felt foolish explaining to them that the only
way they could read it was to come to my bedroom. it took me a few publications before i finally started saying out loud
"i'm a writer". i needed something concrete to point at 1st.


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## Pidgeon84 (Jan 27, 2015)

Well, you start with writing some crap. Doesn't matter what. Just write. Then you can call yourself whatever. But here's the thing. The label you give yourself don't mean squat. I guess you can tell people "I'm a writer." but who cares lol.


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## shadowwalker (Jan 27, 2015)

Sam said:


> Okay, so then by that logic you're also a maid if you use a hoover; a soldier if you drive a truck in a war-zone; a chef if you cook a meal.
> 
> Sorry, it doesn't parse, and I'm not perpetuating anything.



Hyperbole much? 

From the Merriam-Webster free online dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/writer)

Full Definition of WRITER
:  one that writes: as
a :  author
b :  one who writes stock options 

and (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/author)

Full Definition of AUTHOR
1
a :  one that originates or creates :  source <software authors> <film authors> <the author of this crime>
b capitalized :  god 1
2
:  the writer of a literary work (as a book)
— au·tho·ri·al adjective 

I see nothing in either definition about getting paid, do you? I don't even see anything about being published.


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## Terry D (Jan 27, 2015)

I think I started to consider myself a writer about the same time I stopped worrying about it. If you have doubts about being a writer then you probably shouldn't call yourself one. But, really, does the distinction matter? Just write.


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## Plasticweld (Jan 27, 2015)

The last time I told someone I was a writer was when I had my computer worked on, and the tech doing the work needed to know what needed to be saved and what was important.  I told him I was a writer and had over 50 stories on my computer I would really hate to loose.   I am not good enough yet to worry about backing them up :}


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## Sam (Jan 27, 2015)

shadowwalker said:


> Hyperbole much?
> 
> From the Merriam-Webster free online dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/writer)
> 
> ...



If everyone becomes an author by scribbling down a grocery list, why do people bother trying to get published at all? 

And why is it that the universal industry standard is published *author *and not published *writer*? Why is it that a person starting out is called an aspiring writer, and the person who has made a career of it is called a professional author? 

Deny it if you want, call me egotistical if you must, but I didn't choose the words.


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## Bishop (Jan 27, 2015)

Terry D said:


> I think I started to consider myself a writer about the same time I stopped worrying about it. If you have doubts about being a writer then you probably shouldn't call yourself one. But, really, does the distinction matter? Just write.



This times a hundred. Billion. Times a hundred billion.


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## Cran (Jan 27, 2015)

This is one of those pointless applications of definition to a concept, right up there with what is beauty or truth. 

No matter what distinction one wishes to put on being a writer, or an artist, another will disagree. 

Whatever one wishes to identify with means less that what one does. Don't worry and just do it.


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## PiP (Jan 27, 2015)

> [h=2]When can you say that you're a writer?[/h]After you've finished a first draft of an entire story? Once someone's paid you for your work? When you quit your job and write full time?​



I considered myself a writer when someone asked me to write an article and I was paid for the privilege. I will consider myself an author when I publish my first novel and a perfect stranger buys a copy.


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## Bloggsworth (Jan 27, 2015)

Was Emily Dickinson not a poet and writer because nobody knew? You don't need anyone else to tell you if you are a writer, it is your decision and yours alone - As to whether people like what you write, or the manner in which you write it, that is a different kettle of fish; but you are answerable only to yourself.


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## Blade (Jan 27, 2015)

We all do other things beside write. Calling yourself a writer in a most serious sense somewhat denies everything else you are.:blue:


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## dale (Jan 27, 2015)

Blade said:


> We all do other things beside write. Calling yourself a writer in a most serious sense somewhat denies everything else you are.:blue:



yeah. but it looks so much better on my resume to call myself a writer, rather than a drunk.


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## Bloggsworth (Jan 27, 2015)

Was Irène Némirovsky, who wrote *Suite Française*, not an author because her manuscripts were not discovered till long after her death? You, and only you, can decide if you are a writer, whether others like/approve of what you write is a different kettle of fish, but it is not up to them to decide what you are.


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## shadowwalker (Jan 27, 2015)

Every time someone asks this question, it's the same old argument. Yes, it's pointless, but sometimes those of us who deal with words so much really ought to show more respect for them.


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## bazz cargo (Jan 27, 2015)

Right, see this badge on my sleeve? Yep, I have finally gone power mad. (Cue manic laugh). 

Now  I am all for a quiet mull over things with a few friends down the pub  but we very rarely talk about anything sensible, after trawling through  this thread I was feeling like I was propped at the bar. What the hell  are you lot on? If I wanted to see this many split hairs I'd become a  Ladies hairdresser, sheesh!

I respectfully request that a polite  tone and a cordial manner be used by all, and anyone who starts pushing  my blood-pressure up will buy the lounge a round. For those  who are in  need I suggest starting a get-a-life thread. 

Now behave or Poppa will spank.


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## stevesh (Jan 28, 2015)

I think we can all agree that you can call yourself anything you want at any time, but since agreeing with Sam apparently makes me an egoist, I may as well go whole hog and suggest that the real question is: when would _I_ say you're a writer? The answer is: when you've been published, and were paid for the work.


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## Crowley K. Jarvis (Jan 28, 2015)

My father, a very smart man with an actual high IQ, told me something  once. 'If it's your job and a big part of your life, call yourself whatever you want. If you just do it in your spare time, it's a hobby.' 

I wouldn't call myself a writer because that isn't my life. I'm incredibly creative and desperately need a form of expression. But I'm nowhere near the lifestyle most bonafide writers were at. It's just something I do. That's a hobby. But even if you've never been paid, if you've written libraries and write every day and have actual talent, yeah, paycheck, publishing or no I'd call you a writer. 

But yes that's as much a matter of opinion as beauty or truth as previously stated. Terminology is a ridiculous thing sometimes. That's why I don't watch the news anymore. People spend as much time deciding what to call it as they do taking a side on the issue! Haha. Don't get hung up on it. Who wants a free headache?


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## Kyle R (Jan 28, 2015)

NineShadowEyes said:
			
		

> When can you say that you're a writer?
> 
> After you've finished a first draft of an entire story? Once someone's paid you for your work? When you quit your job and write full time?


When you do it enough to consider it a part of who you are. :encouragement:


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## NineShadowEyes (Jan 28, 2015)

Wow! I didn't think I'd get so many responses.

For me, right now, writing is what I spend the most time doing since I don't work (medical reasons). I've been spending most of my time writing for six months. Whenever people ask me what I've been doing with myself I say "Writing". So in a sense I can say I'm a writer and not feel deceitful about it, especially now that I've written a novel length story from beginning to end. But I wouldn't call myself an author cause I haven't been published. That's just my personal opinion on the matter, though.

Another thought about the whole "being paid" thing. I used to work in the IT industry and have met a few interns who basically work 40 hours a week, but don't get paid. They were still IT Technicians (their official title), though, and could tell people "I'm in IT."


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## juggled (Jan 28, 2015)

Being a beginner I would say that a writer is someone who writes, and an author has works like a book. I really have no idea, I am a juggler.


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## dale (Jan 28, 2015)

juggled said:


> Being a beginner I would say that a writer is someone who writes, and an author has works like a book. I really have no idea, I am a juggler.


when did you 1st consider yourself a juggler?


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## Dave Watson (Jan 29, 2015)

It's a question that for me is very hard to answer. Like others have said, I think it depends on your own point of view, but I think you should at least back up the claim with a decent body of work, but more importantly, have a real passion to make it your central aim in life rather than something you do for fun now and again.

 Personally, over the course of the last 15 years, I've written two novels, self published one on Amazon and started a third, have written numerous short stories and articles - some of which have been published in various ways - got picked up by a literary agency and have embarked on a masters degree in creative writing. I've been offered publishing contracts by three independents, but have declined them in favour of trying my luck with the big boys first. In all that time, I estimate in monetary terms I've made around £150 from writing. 

I still feel a bit self-conscious about calling myself a writer, even though I think it's the thing I'm meant to do, it's without doubt the the thing I do best, and it's been the main focus of my life for the past two years or so. For me, I think when my agent calls me and tells me she's managed to sell one of my novels, I get an advance check that supports me and my family for a few months, and it starts showing up in bookstores, then I'll relax a bit and be able to say with confidence, "Yeah, I'm a writer. In your face, rejection tray." 

Like I said though, that's just me.


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## Carly Berg (Jan 29, 2015)

Interesting question. I don't exactly think "I'm a writer" or "I'm an author." More like just "I write." Maybe the distinction in my mind is because I write what I feel like writing rather than aim for the genres and markets that pay the best, or even that pay at all. Which is nothing like any "job" I've had. Those were definitely for money and it didn't matter what I felt like doing, so to me it's completely different (I have over 100 stories and articles and two books published, put in nearly full-time hours, and make a few bucks but nowhere near enough to live on). 

I definitely don't say I'm a writer or author to other people because I always end up annoyed that way. I write under a pen name so their inevitable follow-up questions are awkward to answer. "No, you can't read anything I've written because I don't give out my pen name" just sounds kind of snotty imo. And their other follow-up discussion often seems nosy and rude, like they're trying to find out if you make a lot of money or are published vs. if they can out you as a poseur. Or they start giving you their great suggestions, like how you should write their amazing life story since they are too busy to do it themselves or you should write something like Stephen King writes because he makes a lot of money you know. I'd rather skip those conversations. :cower:

About the "writer" vs. "author" debate, I've often heard writer means you write, author means you're a published writer. But now that I think about it, I'm not sure who came up with that and as someone showed above, the dictionary doesn't make that distinction, or the one quoted doesn't anyway. I guess you can call yourself what you want, just depending on how you think of it. It seems clear there's no one set way, any more than when someone who paints can call themselves an artist.


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## TIG (Jan 29, 2015)

In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, I think there's a definition to be made between what you are and what you do. If someone asks me what I am, I figure I won't bother answering because it's clear what I am. If they ask what I do, the answer would be 'writer' because I write for a living. It's my only source of income.

If I referenced any of things I do as an description of myself, there would be some very awkward moments. Mind you, at least the world would know why I occasionally watch the Lorraine Kelly workout video!

Personally, I tend to try and obscure what I do because I think saying I'm a writer is a bit pompous, even through it's how I've earned my living for the past 30 odd years. I also know a fair few colleagues who do the same. If someone proclaims they are a 'writer', I would expect them to make their living from it, and also to be a bit egotistical.


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## John Galt (Jan 29, 2015)

Bishop said:


> I am now Galactic President of the Wilky Way.
> 
> I'll begin conversing with leaders of other galaxies and let you all know what's in store for intergalactic foreign policy.



Finally someone has stepped up! And thanks to you, we can work on challenging Earths 100% win-rate of the Miss Universe pageant.


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## John Galt (Jan 29, 2015)

Carly Berg said:


> Interesting question. I don't exactly think "I'm a writer" or "I'm an author." More like just "I write." Maybe the distinction in my mind is because I write what I feel like writing rather than aim for the genres and markets that pay the best, or even that pay at all. Which is nothing like any "job" I've had. Those were definitely for money and it didn't matter what I felt like doing, so to me it's completely different (I have over 100 stories and articles and two books published, put in nearly full-time hours, and make a few bucks but nowhere near enough to live on).
> 
> I definitely don't say I'm a writer or author to other people because I always end up annoyed that way. I write under a pen name so their inevitable follow-up questions are awkward to answer. "No, you can't read anything I've written because I don't give out my pen name" just sounds kind of snotty imo. And their other follow-up discussion often seems nosy and rude, like they're trying to find out if you make a lot of money or are published vs. if they can out you as a poseur. Or they start giving you their great suggestions, like how you should write their amazing life story since they are too busy to do it themselves or you should write something like Stephen King writes because he makes a lot of money you know. I'd rather skip those conversations. :cower:
> 
> About the "writer" vs. "author" debate, I've often heard writer means you write, author means you're a published writer. But now that I think about it, I'm not sure who came up with that and as someone showed above, the dictionary doesn't make that distinction, or the one quoted doesn't anyway. I guess you can call yourself what you want, just depending on how you think of it. It seems clear there's no one set way, any more than when someone who paints can call themselves an artist.



I know exactly how you feel. When people ask what I like to do, and I answer with "write", they immediately a) want to read something, b) ask 'what do you write?' The second one is annoying because when (if) I answer primarily fantasy, they give that "Oh... well... that's... uh... great" look.


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## dale (Jan 29, 2015)

TIG said:


> Personally, I tend to try and obscure what I do because I think saying I'm a writer is a bit pompous.



is it really? i always thought it was more like admitting i was flat-broke, semi-delusional, and don't get along well with others.


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## TIG (Jan 29, 2015)

dale said:


> is it really? i always thought it was more like admitting i was flat-broke, semi-delusional, and don't get along well with others.



They're good qualifications!

I remember about a year after I left uni being invited to a party by someone who had been on my degree course. It was, according to them, a 'media' party, so I went with a bloke I was working with at the time. It wasn't pretty. They were sitting around listening to jazz, sipping wine and discussing the representation of minorities in mainstream media or somesuch nonsense when we arrived, dragging crates of beer and well the wrong side of a few pints. It took about 30 minutes for every single one of them to get the hump. We were dismissed as drunken loutish ne'er-do-wells and unsuitable for intelligent conversation. The funny thing was out of everyone there, us two were the only ones with real media jobs.

Strangely, we're both still at it.


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## dale (Jan 29, 2015)

TIG said:


> They're good qualifications!
> 
> I remember about a year after I left uni being invited to a party by someone who had been on my degree course. It was, according to them, a 'media' party, so I went with a bloke I was working with at the time. It wasn't pretty. They were sitting around listening to jazz, sipping wine and discussing the representation of minorities in mainstream media or somesuch nonsense when we arrived, dragging crates of beer and well the wrong side of a few pints. It took about 30 minutes for every single one of them to get the hump. We were dismissed as drunken loutish ne'er-do-wells and unsuitable for intelligent conversation. The funny thing was out of everyone there, us two were the only ones with real media jobs.
> 
> Strangely, we're both still at it.



lol. i haven't met any of those "modern beatniks" yet. i'd probably find them humorous at 1st, then end up arrested for assault before the night was over.


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## TIG (Jan 29, 2015)

dale said:


> lol. i haven't met any of those "modern beatniks" yet. i'd probably find them humorous at 1st, then end up arrested for assault before the night was over.



This was around 30 years ago. I daresay they're still out there; they just listen to different music and drink fruit-flavoured cider.


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## ppsage (Jan 29, 2015)

Hi 9se... As you can see from all the replies, this is a complex and highly nuanced topic. I'm a little surprised you've made it to a couple score posts without receiving the official memo, which is quite bulky. Perhaps the powers-that-be have run short on spare electrons. Like all self-determined definitions, this too is very situational, although not so much relativistic as reactionary. Depends on the expected response. For instance, it's perfectly legitimate to call yourself a writer in the initial phases of almost any romantic situation. But consider using poet; in some circles certainly the better choice. Similar conditions obtain in particular taverns and most bullfights. In another case, supposing you find yourself inordinately possessed of shyness, or, interestingly, belligerence (as has already been mentioned), then covering yourself in the writer's protective coloring is a useful strategy. But sometimes you never want the consideration to arise. Suppose the volunteer newsletter editor of your club has resigned in hysteria. Claim illiteracy. Deciding is not really as hard as it seems around here where we have more cooks than bowls. I'm sure it'll all clear up just fine. pp


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## Kamek (Jan 29, 2015)

I say aspiring writer, since my aim is to get a book published first. Then, when I eventually call myself a writer, I'll be able to refer to something I've written. As proof.


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## johnl (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm a writer, because I write and call myself a writer.

I have no idea, what I am to do for someone else to call me a writer.


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## JustRob (Feb 3, 2015)

I clearly am not as ambitious as some. While others define a writer as someone who gets paid for their work I'll consider myself a writer when people read my work just for the pleasure without _my_ having to pay _them_. That's why I'm here, cheating to that end, on this website. I describe myself as a fictional writer because it's the readers who decide who the writers are, not us, just as politiclans can't just say they are that but have to get elected. The problem may be that, just like political parties, publishers are able to manipulate the selection process and change the objectives. If my ambition is only to get my baker's dozen of truly appreciative readers for my peculiar series of novels then I doubt that publishers will be able to help because that's not their serious business, getting a wide range of stories to the readers, so it seems. Anyway, following the Peter Principle, an established published writer seems to be one who's run out of fresh ideas, given up trying and doesn't have their work closely scrutinised by editors any more, at least from most of the "popular" stuff that gets published and well promoted so far as I see. Can anyone claim that it is as hard to get one's twentieth book published as one's first? No, if I'm to maintain my standards then I'll never want to be more than an aspiring writer.

By the way, if I claim to be anything, then I say that I am a mathematician. It isn't really based on my skill in that respect but my attitude to life. Someone (I really wish that I could remember who.) said that a mathematician is the sort of person who might say "I think I understand something, but I don't know what it is yet." My own definition is the sort of person who, after being locked in solitary confinement for ten years, is bursting to tell everyone the news when he gets out. Of course if he were a writer then he'd be rushing off to get his new trilogy published. Come to think of it some did, but maybe only the Marquis de Sade springs to mind immediately. So is that the definition of a true writer, one who keeps on doing it even if they lock him up? Open the cage then, but let nobody deny me my freedom.


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## Kyle R (Feb 3, 2015)

Kamek said:


> I say aspiring writer, since my aim is to get a book published first. Then, when I eventually call myself a writer, I'll be able to refer to something I've written. As proof.


"Aspiring writer" means you've never written, but one day, you hope to write your first word.

What you are is a writer who hasn't yet published a book. In other words: you're already a writer. :encouragement:

Wayne Dyer talks about this process in his motivational program, _The Power of Intention_. 

Put simply, Dr. Dyer recommends we don't be cowardly in how we define ourselves. If we want to be successful writers, define ourselves as such. Believe it. Don't just hope it. _Believe_ it. And don't just believe it, but _act accordingly_. 

With your self-doubts removed, and your actions motivated, success is practically inevitable. (Unless, of course, you get run over by a bus or something. :grief

"In my mind, I've always been an A-list Hollywood superstar. Y'all just didn't know yet." — Will Smith


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## Mr mitchell (Feb 11, 2015)

Here are my two cents on this subject: to me, a writer is someone who pick up a pad and paper, but an author is whom paid for their work. You are a writer whoever published or not, but some people seem to believe that you have to see the book you written in the bookstore.

I don't like this thought, believe me.

I've called myself a writer since I'd type my first word on my first story. Since then, I'm a writer like many out there.

There are my two cents.


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## ppsage (Feb 11, 2015)

When you know how to punctuate a dialogue tag without looking it up.


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