# How to get a woman off a horse?



## heartmama (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm rather stuck for a solution to a problem I've written myself into and I'm hoping you'll be able to help. Yes, I've considered writing myself out of it, but after considering it from all angles, it really needs to happen this way for multiple reasons vital to the development of the story. As much as I'd like to, I simply cannot delete this scene or even alter it to make it easier to maneuver.  She must be riding a horse and he must stop her without killing her.

To narrow this down as much as possible for the purpose of my question:

It's August, 1832 in (still Mexican) Texas.  I have a woman (my heroine) on a horse.  She is galloping the horse as far away from a man (villain) as possible.  She has a 2-3 minute head start but is wearing a dress and riding bareback - something she's never done before. The terrain here is tall grass prairie. 

The man chasing her is roughly her equal in equine experience. He is not a cowboy. He's from Brooklyn and does not know how to lasso. 

I want him to somehow stop her and get her off her horse without hurting her, or at least without maming or otherwise permanently injuring her (don't much care what happens to the horse from a plot stand point).  She needs to be able to have reasonably full use of her body within 24hrs (even if its with pain). 

Options I've considered:

Have him give chase on a second horse, pull up beside her and pull her off.  (PROBLEM:  Seems unlikely without her cooperation.)
Have him give chase on a second horse and then shoot the horse beneath her, causing both she and the horse to fall. (PROBLEM: The accuracy of weapons at this time, coupled with the movement of both the shooter and target make him as likely to shoot her as the horse and with all the horse's muscle, he could easily fail to hit anything vital.)
Have him give chase on a second horse, draw near and then stab/slice the horse's throat. (PROBLEM:  He's expert with a knife, but I'm still not sure how difficult this would be given both horses would be galloping at the time.)
He could have anticipated her attempted escape and set out a trip wire ahead of time to fell the horse.  (PROBLEM:  Too much territory to cover and no real way of knowing which direction she would head.)
He could attempt to follow at an unseen distance, wait for her to stop, and make his move then. (PROBLEM: It's a prairie - not too many places to take cover while trailing or trying to sneak closer. Also, I need this to be over with fairly quickly. It cannot take more than several hours to resolve. )
Essentially, the question is this:  If you lived in 1832 Texas and wanted to stop someone who was fleeing on a horse, but you didn't want to kill them, how would you do it?


TIA!


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## Hawke (Feb 21, 2012)

Is the man's horse saddled? And when you say experience, how much are we talking about here? 

You need to care what happens to the horse for a few reasons. 1) The readers will definitely care. 2) What happens to the horse is going to directly effect the woman. In other words, most of the options you've listed would result in the woman either being severely injured or dead. (I could tell you why if you'd like.)

So how would I stop someone who was fleeing on a horse? I'd follow them/chase them down. A horse couldn't gallop for several hours straight anymore than a person could run for several hours straight. Also, if it was her horse and she loved it, when he got close enough he could always yell a threat to shoot it if she didn't stop.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 21, 2012)

I think you need to forget the prairie. Scatter a few trees through the story. Trees with low branches. Have the woman gallop underneath one of these branches and get swept off the horse’s back. That was how they did it in all the movies.

Okay, you want the prairie. In that case, think of some 1832 man-made artefact that she can gallop under.


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## Bloggsworth (Feb 21, 2012)

From the way you have described your woman, it is extremely unlikely that she would stay on the horse for the first 100 yards. One assumes that if she is saddleless she is also bridleless; if so where did she get the musculature to grip an unfamiliar horse with bare legs and then persuade to obey commands it normally recieves via bridle and stirrups? I have only once ridden bareback and it was an uneasy experience and I would not have, for one second, contemplated a canter leave alone attempted a gallop, always assuming I could have raised it to a gallop in the first place; and I have the legs of a prop-forward! In my experience, which isn't a lot admittedly, it is surprisingly difficult to get a horse to gallop.

I would expect her to fall off at the first swerve, so the old standby a sudden rattler would certainly do it...


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## The Backward OX (Feb 21, 2012)

Had a closer look. Have to agree with Bloggs. If as you say she’s never ridden bareback, there’s no way she’ll stay on, galloping. Bareback riding is an art.

How about you enlist the help of eight or ten Texas Rangers? Their unofficial formation occurred 9 years before your story is set. They could ride out from behind a handy rock and hinder her passage while your Brooklynite rides up, says, "Thanks, guys," and grabs her. Forget all this galloping nonsense.


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## Gumby (Feb 21, 2012)

Or you could have the horse throw a shoe and come up lame.


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## Foxee (Feb 21, 2012)

I would think that there are a ton of factors but if the man has a faster horse (or even one that's her horse's equal) the easiest thing would be to ride up beside her until he can reach out and grab her horse's reins, ideally just behind the bit. Considering how difficult it would be to grab both reins with everything in motion, all he really has to do is to grab one and start turning his horse in a circle (this is one way to slow down a runaway horse on flat land, too). As the horses circle he'd only really need to hang on to that rein and gain control of her horse completely as the horses run slower.

If she's inexperienced it may be a miracle that she's hung on this long, one thing that is for sure, an inexperienced rider would not be able to control the horse at a full gallop AND evade someone who did this. I think it's realistic that she would be hanging on for dear life (lack of a saddle is not the easiest thing if you're not used to it). Unless she's a real daredevil or she fears him worse than a bad fall, I don't think she'd jump or fall on purpose, that would again be something that an experienced rider might be able to pull off but an inexperienced one would be less likely to do.

Also, her horse would very likely WANT to run with his. Horses are herd animals and especially if she senses the fear/inexperience of her rider (she would) she may unwittingly betray her rider by seeking the comfort of running alongside the other animal.

So I'd say have him control the horse then get the girl, this would take less time and work much better than trying to kill a galloping horse.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Feb 21, 2012)

heartmama said:


> It's August, 1832 in (still Mexican) Texas.  I have a woman (my heroine) on a horse.  She is galloping the horse as far away from a man (villain) as possible.  She has a 2-3 minute head start but is wearing a dress and riding bareback - something she's never done before. The terrain here is tall grass prairie.



Is she straddling the horse or going side-saddle? If it's the former in a dress, ouch.  If it's the latter, the man just needs to get next to and push/pull just slightly.  As others have said, there's no way she'd stay on without experience.

But what do you mean, it seems unlikely that he'd be able to pull her off without her cooperation? If he has a strong enough grip, all he needs to do is grab her and hang on.  Either she'd get unseated or they both would, and either way, you're good to go.


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## alanmt (Feb 21, 2012)

Yeah.  What foxee said.  Grab the reins.  Control the horse, control the girl.

She could always get swept off the horse fording a river.


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## Rustgold (Feb 21, 2012)

alanmt said:


> She could always get swept off the horse fording a river.



Most river have rocks, or debris.  Gimme a land based fall any day.

Seems to me that the horse probably wouldn't gallop in the first place.  You simply don't jump on a horse and off you go (like a car).  And it'll probably serve double if there isn't a saddle on the horse.


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## Foxee (Feb 21, 2012)

Rustgold said:


> Seems to me that the horse probably wouldn't gallop in the first place.  You simply don't jump on a horse and off you go (like a car).  And it'll probably serve double if there isn't a saddle on the horse.


Depends how motivated and panicked you are. You might startle the horse into throwing you or it might decide to run. Even if you only know a little about horses you'd pretty much have the idea to kick it. Horses don't like things landing on them unannounced because the thing landing on them could be something like a mountain lion. If the horse is trained to accept a rider, though, chances are pretty good she could get it to run. She just might not get to pick the direction and I doubt she'd have much control.

Honestly, if we're being dead realistic here, she'll most likely fall or be thrown off before she gets far but determination and fear can do a lot for a person's ability to cling to a horse, not to mention disinclination to hit the ground. She could be clinging like a monkey.


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## Baron (Feb 21, 2012)

If it was Hawke on the horse I'd say just get alongside and offer her some chocolate.


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## heartmama (Feb 21, 2012)

Wow! Thank you all for your great responses. I have to admit I hadn't considered that it would be so impossible for her to ride bareback. Admittedly, it's not something I've done myself, but I had a teenage neighbor who rode bareback frequently, and although I don't remember her ever galloping that way, I don't remember her ever commenting that it was particularly difficult. It wouldn't be too difficult to give the woman a saddle and/or bridle. I just figured that having a saddle would make her more difficult to stop. However, given her lack of experience riding bareback and your comments that it's so much more difficult than saddle, I'm having second thoughts.

She is straddling the horse in this scene. 

Yes the man's horse is saddled.

Yes there are a few mesquite and juniper trees, but no, I think the whole branch sweeping thing (man-made or otherwise) is a tad over-played.  Also, the last thing either character wants at this point is to involve the law. But I love that you're always thinking outside the box. 

The two horses in question are actually part of a team that are used to working together.  I would imagine they are fairly equally matched, though one could be a bit faster, I suppose. Neither is used to running for long periods of time.

As for riding up beside her and pulling her horse's reigns, couldn't she just steer the horse out of reach? He'd need to pin her and her horse up against something for that to work, I would think. 

And, okay, to be honest, the horse dying at the hands of the man is probably my first choice, but it's not strictly necessary.  It would just add to character layers which are already in place. 

Given everyone's feedback, I'm now thinking the most plausible solution seems to be to have him chase her till the horses tire, but then what? I'll have to research what happens when you ride a horse that hard in order to determine how the scene plays out from there. I already tried, briefly, but with no luck and other duties call at the moment. Will try googling again later, but if anyone happens to know or knows a good place to look for the info, that would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to think about my question and respond thoughtfully. Your help is truly appreciated!!! :mrgreen:


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## Foxee (Feb 21, 2012)

heartmama said:


> As for riding up beside her and pulling her horse's reigns, couldn't she just steer the horse out of reach? He'd need to pin her and her horse up against something for that to work, I would think.


No.

There are at least two main factors at play here.

1. she is basically clinging onto a bolting horse (at least as I see it) and expending most of her energy probably hanging on (she'd have the reins but she'd probably also be hanging onto the mane...which makes it hard to steer)

2. Even if someone IS in control of their horse by using the reins, if someone ELSE grabs the reins closer to the bit then* the person who has the grip closer to the bit has control of the horse.* Even if he only grabs the one rein closest to him and tows her around in a circle as I said, she's going to have a very difficult time dislodging his grip. (Though if she can jerk that rein from his hand or slash him across the face with the loose end of the reins to get him to let go that might work.)

Remember, he's got the easy job in this scenario: ride in a straight line, manage to get just a little ahead of her, reach out with one hand and grab a rein or reins. He's got her.


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## Potty (Feb 21, 2012)

How do you get a woman off a horse? 

Hope it _reins_. If it doesn't then tell her to_ bail _out. Offer encouragement, don't _neigh_-say. Make sure she dismounts on something _stable _and remember, it's going to be a night_mare_.


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## squidtender (Feb 22, 2012)

Potty said:


> How do you get a woman off a horse?
> 
> Hope it _reins_. If it doesn't then tell her to_ bail _out. Offer encouragement, don't _neigh_-say. Make sure she dismounts on something _stable _and remember, it's going to be a night_mare_.



Oh Potty, no. No, no, noukel: LOL


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## patskywriter (Feb 22, 2012)

Horses are easily frightened and sometimes stop when they encounter "barriers" (including natural barriers like water, unfamiliar changes in terrain, etc). You could still have a chase, albeit a short one, due the woman's inexperience, lack of a saddle, and a sudden natural barrier of your choice.

The man could catch up and simply tell the woman that there's no way she can control the horse or effectively run away, so she might as well dismount. Or, I can imagine the horse slowing as the woman loses her grip. She can probably slide off and only suffer a few scratches and bruises.


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## Kyle R (Feb 22, 2012)

Might I add that "realistic" should be considered an option, not a prison, for creativity. Don't feel like you have to write _what would happen in real life.

_Honestly, I think that would lead to the most boring Chase Sequence ever. This is not real life. This is fiction! It's drama and excitement! Throw "realistic" out the window! All it needs to be is believable, or even, simply plausible..

The reader will accept a suspension of belief if the emotional payoff is satisfactory.

Were I writing this scenario, I would ask myself "If I were this female rider, trying to escape, what's the one thing I would fear happening the most?" or "What's the worst thing that could happen to her at this moment?" Then, I'd make that happen to her.

Her horse's foot/ankle catching in a hole while thundering forward at breakneck speed, and then the horse stumbling and flipping over, with her tumbling and screaming through the air, comes to mind.

Or her trying to push the horse through a river with a current that's too strong.. and suddenly the river, and drowning, becomes the real concern...

Another angle to look at it is from a creative solution standpoint from the pursuer. She's got a few minutes head start, so it's unlikely he'll catch her if their horses and riding abilities are equal.

So instead, he tries to cut her off by going off in a different direction. The woman is confused when she sees him disappear, and she doesn't know where he's gone, only that he's still pursuing her, somewhere unseen. This could lead to a lot of suspense as she eventually will have to stop and eat/drink/sleep, never really knowing where or how close her pursuer is.

or perhaps he falls of HIS horse, and the woman looks back and sees him laying on the dirt in the wide open middle-of-nowhere, while his horse speeds off in the opposite direction, and she can't ignore her curiosity and/or sympathy, and she returns to, from a safe distance, at least leave him with a canteen of water, but when she gets close and he isn't moving, she thinks he may be dead.. only to have him stagger up and lash out at her, grabbing onto her as she tries to ride off, and then he's dragged for a bit and struggle ensues..

Basically I'm suggesting throw "What _would _happen?" out the window and consider "What would I like to _make_ happen?" 

:encouragement:


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## Foxee (Feb 22, 2012)

The only problem with that, Kyle, is that the people who are giving advice here who have ridden horses and know how this all works would snort and close the book, put it back on the shelf, and walk off to find one that is plausible enough to suspend our disbelief. Sure, you need to write something exciting and maybe even dramatic or what's the point of writing anything? But it should definitely be realistic, it doesn't have to lose that to be exciting. As a matter of fact, I'd go the other direction from you and say to push the realism. Maybe instead of having her magically become able to get on a horse bareback (much easier to say than to do) and ride off easily HAVE her fall off and have to struggle up and run for it. Why bother with all the horse chase business if it isn't going to work? Push what will, it's up to the writer to make it and exciting sequence.


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## Gumby (Feb 22, 2012)

> people who are giving advice here who have ridden horses and know how  this all works would snort and close the book, put it back on the shelf,  and walk off to find one that is plausible enough to suspend our  disbelief.



This. It bugs me when I read something that I know from experience is just wrong. Spoils the whole story and drives me crazy.


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## Kyle R (Feb 22, 2012)

Foxee said:


> The only problem with that, Kyle, is that the people who are giving advice here who have ridden horses and know how this all works would snort and close the book, put it back on the shelf, and walk off to find one that is plausible enough to suspend our disbelief. Sure, you need to write something exciting and maybe even dramatic or what's the point of writing anything? But it should definitely be realistic, it doesn't have to lose that to be exciting. As a matter of fact, I'd go the other direction from you and say to push the realism. Maybe instead of having her magically become able to get on a horse bareback (much easier to say than to do) and ride off easily HAVE her fall off and have to struggle up and run for it. Why bother with all the horse chase business if it isn't going to work? Push what will, it's up to the writer to make it and exciting sequence.



Nowhere did I recommend implausibility.

I only suggest that a writer should not feel bound by a responsibility to replicate reality. The storyworld and the real world are two seperate things.

I've gone that route, with an ice-climbing story I was writing. Having no ice-climbing, or mountain-climbing experience of my own, I began to research in an attempt to satisfy any climbing experts who might happen to read my story. And the research progressed. I watched videos. I read articles. I even looked at equipment instruction manuals. Did you know you can use a friction hitch in lieu of a belay device, or that certain hand-foot placements are considered "moves" with their own nicknames? I learned these things, and more, but in the end I ended up never getting the story written.

Why? Because I became paralyzed by the fear of trying to accurately replicate reality, to depict things as they would really happen, in order to satisfy the enthusiasts and masters in that specific field of practice. That resulted in the loss of my story. My creative muse hopped on a train to Cairo and sent me a postcard saying "Wish you weren't such a Realist!"

So now, I consider Reality my arch-nemesis in terms of fiction writing. And forgive me if I come on strong, shaking my fist at my rival, *Captain Realism*, as I see him taunting another writer.

This is the headspace I'm in when responding to this thread. I say, if it's implausible, fix it, but otherwise, let it ride! If bareback is unrealistic, then throw a saddle and bridle on and get on with the story!

I apologize if you, or other horse riders, feel perturbed by my suggestion to let the creativity fly and realism be damned! It wasn't intended as a knock on your suggestions.

I say, don't worry about "What _would _happen?", instead, focus on, "What would I _like _to happen?", then fix any plausibility, or logical issues that come up along the way.

And if anyone says otherwise, shoot them with a photon ray gun from Planet Nebular. At least then you won't have to worry about any weapons specialists arguing about the appropriate shells! (I researched the measurements of shell casings for carbine assault rifles -- down to the millimeter! -- in another story to capture realism as well. It ended up as yet another defeat at the hands of my evil arch-nemesis! Blast him!)


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## JosephB (Feb 22, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> I only suggest that a writer should not feel bound by a responsibility to replicate reality. The storyworld and the real world are two seperate things.



If your story isn’t speculative fiction and it’s happening in the "real world," then you need to get the details right. You owe that to the reader who knows better -- otherwise, you’re wasting his or her time.


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## JosephB (Feb 22, 2012)

Oh, and when I saw the thread title, I thought I would definitively qualify as a subject matter expert -- until I got to the "a horse" part.


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## Morgan (Feb 22, 2012)

Since she doesn't have a saddle, she could occasionally start slipping and be forced to slow down allowing him to catch up.  Since the horses work together, one horse will be dominant over the other.  You could have his horse be the dominant one, and have him nudge the horse into hers, and herd her in a tighter and tighter circle until she gives up trying to run.


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## Potty (Feb 22, 2012)

JosephB said:


> Oh, and when I saw the thread title, I thought I would definitively qualify as a subject matter expert -- until I got to the "a horse" part.




Haha! Classy.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 22, 2012)

With respect, the comments by Foxee and Kyle do nothing but muddy the water. No reader – or, not every reader - is going to be bothered too much about whether or not it’s realistic or plausible or a suspension of disbelief. If it’s well enough written, the average reader will be more interested in turning the page to find out what happens next than in worrying about horsemanship.


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## JosephB (Feb 22, 2012)

It’s not about the average reader. It’s about people who know if it’s accurate or not. It might be a small percentage of readers, but it will take them out of the story if the details are wrong. I’m not willing to accept that – especially when it can be avoided by doing a little homework. For me, it’s also a matter of pride in what I do. I want to get it right.


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## Kyle R (Feb 22, 2012)

JosephB said:


> If your story isn’t speculative fiction and it’s happening in the "real world," then you need to get the details right. You owe that to the reader who knows better -- otherwise, you’re wasting his or her time.



I'm not advocating getting the details _wrong_. My argument is to not feel creatively bound by what _would_ happen, and instead, to consider what _could_ happen.

What _would_ happen is realistic (real world). Man chases woman. Woman attempts to mount horse. Woman falls down and is caught.

What _could_ happen is creative (story world). Man chases woman. Woman mounts horse. Chase ensues.

Both could be entirely plausible and satisfactory to the average and expert eye, but the first path and the second path differ vastly in potential and direction for storytelling.

Foxee thought I was arguing against the necessity of a saddle and bridle. I wasn't even really talking about that, I'm talking about the writing process in general (for anyone, regardless of the story at hand).

 If a saddle and bridle are necessary, then slap them on! Not a big issue, easily fixed! heartmama said herself adding a saddle and bridle isn't a problem.

Then, though, the question of how to end the chase still stands, and that's ultimately what I was addressing; pointing out the difference in thinking between figuring out how the chase _would_ end (plausible realism), and the more free approach of considering how it _could_ end (plausible creativity).


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## Rustgold (Feb 22, 2012)

The Backward OX said:


> With respect, the comments by Foxee and Kyle do nothing but muddy the water. No reader – or, not every reader - is going to be bothered too much about whether or not it’s realistic or plausible or a suspension of disbelief.



I sadly agree with Ox.  Plausibility is something which doesn't exist these days, and you'll likely to lose far more readers by being 'realistic' then being stupidly fantastical.



> Since the horses work together, one horse will be dominant over the other. You could have his horse be the dominant one, and have him nudge the horse into hers, and herd her in a tighter and tighter circle until she gives up trying to run.



Sorry, but *boring*.  (no offense)

She ran, he caught up, he took her down.  Have fun with your imagination from there.


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## stellar (Feb 23, 2012)

well how about hilly plains? There might be a chance she could fall off the horse and duck alongside a small mound along the way. It could be growing close to evening and the tufts of dark and shadow on the plain could play tricks on the chasing man's eyesight as he rushedly scans the plains. 
She was close to him, but still a tiny fragent of movement in the distance. 
And then she keeps losing grip until sliding down the side of the untamed horse. It leaves her hanging off the horses side. She is sliding closer to the dangerous gallop of feet along the side. With all her might the heroine thrusts herself off the side of the horse. It lands her into the tall grasses. The horse, now free of its treacherousness captor, is now speeding off even faster across the plains. 
Moments later the chasing man reaches near the woman, but is still locked onto the speeding dark mass that is the horse. He is unaware that she has fallen off. 
He continues full force towards the lone horse.


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## JosephB (Feb 23, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> I'm not advocating getting the details _wrong_. My argument is to not feel creatively bound by what _would_ happen, and instead, to consider what _could_ happen.
> 
> What _would_ happen is realistic (real world). Man chases woman. Woman attempts to mount horse. Woman falls down and is caught.
> 
> ...



Why does the chase ensuing have any more potential than what _could_ happen to her after she is caught?

Think of it this way -- what _would_ happen could be covered in a few sentences of action. The _could_ happen is about what might take place when she’s caught – and that _could_ _be_ _anything_. (Although I'm guessing the author has an idea, since it's her story.)

So what _would_ happen doesn’t limit you in any way or offer any less potential for storytelling. And if that’s the case – you can make it realistic, exciting -- and satisfy readers who know something about horses.


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## heartmama (Feb 23, 2012)

Wow! So many ideas and perspectives! Actually, the differing comments have really inspired me. I'm still not exactly sure how I'm going to play this out, but I somehow feel as if a weight has been lifted and the inspiration has returned. Where I first could see no plausible options, I now see choices! Thank you all so very much. 

And JosephB & Potty, thank you both for the laugh!


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## Kyle R (Feb 23, 2012)

JosephB said:


> Why does the chase ensuing have any more potential than what _could_ happen to her after she is caught?
> 
> Think of it this way -- what _would_ happen could be covered in a few sentences of action. The _could_ happen is about what might take place when she’s caught – and that _could_ _be_ _anything_. (Although I'm guessing the author has an idea, since it's her story.)
> 
> So what _would_ happen doesn’t limit you in any way or offer any less potential for storytelling. And if that’s the case – you can make it realistic, exciting -- and satisfy readers who know something about horses.



That's a good point, Joseph.

I suppose the answer comes down to the question of what the purpose of the horse chase (or non-chase) sequence is there for.

Is it significant moment, or a minor aside?

Is the author setting up a reversal of fortune? Or does the reader already know the girl is doomed to fail?

Is she running for her life? Or just trying to avoid a guy who's attempting to sell her a new hat? The stronger her motivation, the more significant the chase becomes, in my opinion.

Would the dramatic tension of a chase improve the story, or detract from it?

All worthwhile questions to consider, in my opinion. Personally, if I see an opportunity for a chase sequence, I begin salivating, or, more appropriately for this thread, biting at the bit!  But I realize not every writer is this way.

There would be something strange, to me, in seeing a setup for a chase (heroine given a horse to ride) resulting in an immediate failure. I would wonder why the author even bothered to place the horse in there to begin with.

Consider a similar scenario, of a woman being pursued by a man on a motorcycle. The woman flees into a parking structure, and sees a lone motorcycle in the structure. We now have the setup for a high speed chase and pursuit. The girl rushes to the motorcycle, gets it to start (already amazing!) and takes off, only to fall off immediately. The man grabs her and hauls her away.

Now yes, that's possible, and perhaps even likely, but as a reader I would simply feel, for lack of a better word, _jipped_.

As for what happens after she's caught, I believe that can be given due attention regardless.

In any case, those are simply my opinions on the matter. Hope any of it helps!


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## JosephB (Feb 23, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> I suppose the answer comes down to the question of what the purpose of the horse chase (or non-chase) sequence is there for.



Or you could just presume the author knows that -- because it’s her story -- and that she just needs some input from people who know about horses and riding or the era and terrain etc. so she can see if the scenario she’s writing is plausible or not  -- and that once she has the information, she can rewrite the scene, or lose it altogether or whatever.


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## The Backward OX (Feb 23, 2012)

KyleColorado said:


> as a reader I would simply feel, for lack of a better word, _jipped_.



A _better word_ might be _gypped. _My innate understanding of this word is that it derives from the Romany term _gypsy, _a people famed for taking others down, defrauding others, conning others.


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## patskywriter (Feb 23, 2012)

Here's a crazy idea: The horse that the woman attempts to escape on has been trained to respond to a certain whistle. During the chase the man remembers this and whistles loudly. The woman's horse does a U-turn and starts trotting casually toward the man as the woman shouts, kicks, and tries unconvincingly to get the horse to turn around again.


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## SeverinR (Feb 23, 2012)

Falling off a horse: painful(BTDT controlled fallx2) uncontrolled fall-sprains, broken bones, internal injuries.
Triple the risk falling off at a gallop. Falling 6-8 feet uncontrolled, and bouncing along the ground at a good speed when landing.

Killing horse: Stab or shooting- horse dies in mid step, horses momentum brings the tail end over the top rolling over on top of rider. Massive injuires probably maiming or killing the rider.  Slow kill, the horse would slow and she would have to jump off before the horse fell, or she might have her legs crushed.

Side saddle bareback? I believe it is extremely hard to balance side saddle without a saddle at a walk, I would say totally impossible to gallop side saddle *with* a saddle. Side saddle is a balancing act, the point of balance changes drastically in the stride of a horse. You balance on the horses back bone(when there is no saddle), to far one way and you slide off.

No trees to knock her off(see falling and adding a club to face, chest or arms.), no lasso. Leaping from horse to another horse is very difficult unless practiced.
So leaping onto her and knocking her down would not be reasonable. If he gets close a good simple push would get her off the horse, relying on not being an expert rider. (Good riders seem like they are glued into that saddle.)

Foxee's suggestion of grabbing the reins is the best, but no saddle and a sudden turn might just dismount her anyway.  

Another consideration: a horse being chased by an unknown horse would be likely to run harder or veer away from the attacking horse.(the prey mentallity, anything unknown might be looking to eat the horse)

The horse can have reins and not have a saddle. On long trail rides we have removed the saddles but left them tied. Also they might not have gotten to the point of saddling the horse. If she had a few minutes but no tack, 2 lead ropes attached to halter can be used.  (Some horses don't require a bit.)

Two riders could sandwich the woman, and take the reins or slow the horse, no one gets hurt. 

If this horse is the womans, killing it would not encourage a friendly response by the woman. They cost money, and the woman might have a bond with the animal.


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## Jeko (Feb 23, 2012)

Maybe he could shoot the horse, miss, but spook the horse causing her to fall off.


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## JosephB (Feb 23, 2012)

Maybe the villain could pull up alongside her and ask to see her license and proof of insurance.


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## Foxee (Feb 23, 2012)

Baron said:


> If it was Hawke on the horse I'd say just get alongside and offer her some chocolate.


This is still my favorite suggestion of all of them.


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## bazz cargo (Feb 23, 2012)

From my limited experience, horses will shy at the daftest things. For instance a plastic bag blowing in the wind. Would it not react to a gun being fired? A quick veer and the rider topples off.


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## Kyle R (Feb 23, 2012)

JosephB said:


> Or you could just presume the author knows that -- because it’s her story -- and that she just needs some input from people who know about horses and riding or the era and terrain etc. so she can see if the scenario she’s writing is plausible or not  -- and that once she has the information, she can rewrite the scene, or lose it altogether or whatever.



I am discussing writing in a Writing Discussion thread, and I find it strange that you're dismissing my contributions by implying I lack the awareness to infer the OP's intention.

Clearly she had a specific event in mind, and needed help fleshing the idea out. I approached the discussion from a different perspective, that of creative possibilities as opposed to realistic outcomes. I'm aware there is disagreement, which I think is great for discussion. I'm addressing the writing process as well as the specific topic at hand.

You proposed that the chase itself could be dealt with in a few sentences.

I acknowledged this and stated that the elements of the story (from a plot perspective, and from a writing structure perspective) could help determine the depth or brevity of the chase.

You responded by proposing a contradiction, "Or you could just presume the author knows that -- because it’s her story -- and that she just needs some input from people who know about horses and riding or the era and terrain"

I don't presume what heartmama knows, but I can participate in the discussion, and by bringing up the questions I posed, perhaps they may help her with the creative process.

Do you mean that if I don't know about horses and riding or the era and terrain I'm not allowed to participate in the discussion?

In any case, there are a wealth of ideas in this thread and I don't want to derail it. I'm just confused as to why you feel inclined to dismiss mine. Disagreement I can understand, but dismissal? Puzzles me.


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## JosephB (Feb 24, 2012)

Nothing puzzling about it. I’m surprised when people offer generic advice when there is almost nothing to go on -- and that’s when people ask for it.

What might work as far as the chase goes has everything to do with overall plot, pacing, the characters and what’s motivating them etc. -- and we aren’t privy to any of that. A long chase could work. A short chase could work. Who knows? And I appreciate that you like chases, but our personal preferences don't really have much to do with it either -- that is until we're reading the end result. Also, I didn’t propose anything -- I said a few sentences of action could suffice – as an example that just about _anything_ could work. But all of it depends on the overall context and of course, the preferences of the author and her ability to make it work. 

I see it more as questioning the value of offering advice when there just isn't enough information. Don't take it personally -- it's something I've done on occasion -- and I'll likely do it again. And in this case, it has something to do with giving the author the benefit  of the doubt -- since she really wasn't asking about the creative or writing  process. I'd still call it a disagreement, rather than a "dismissal" -- but that's up to you.


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## Foxee (Feb 24, 2012)

bazz cargo said:


> From my limited experience, horses will shy at the daftest things. For instance a plastic bag blowing in the wind. Would it not react to a gun being fired? A quick veer and the rider topples off.


Weirdly enough, no. If it's a horse that's been around gunfire that wouldn't bother it as much as a plastic bag blowing in the wind might. It doesn't matter what we think should be scary to them, it matters what they think something is. Just like the human characters, the plot, the motives, and the details, the horses each would be individual in how they might react.


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## heartmama (Feb 27, 2012)

Okay, what if she loses her balance and is barely hanging on, - in fact, she's slowly slipping off one side of the horse while it's still running. To try to paint a picture:  she's got a grip with both hands on the reins and mane, but her butt has shifted significantly to one side and she's trying to hang on with her legs, but she's exhausted and feels her lower half sliding off.  (sorry for the run-on sentence) Would the horse slow down, instinctively sensing its rider is falling or perhaps just because of the discomfort of having the rider hanging off one side? Or perhaps she, because she's falling, pulls on the reins, slowing the horse?  However, she wouldn't stop the horse, because while there is still hope that she can right herself and sit up on the horse, she'll cling to it (pun intended) because the risk of falling is less terrifying than the risk of being caught by the man chasing her. 

Second part of the question:  If she - now moving slower - is in this precarious, almost-falling-off position, does it seems probable that the man chasing her can come along and yank her from the horse while it is in motion without letting her feet/legs slam into the ground? Perhaps he leans over and wraps his arm around her, under her arms, and yanks?? 

TIA!


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## The Backward OX (Feb 27, 2012)

This is becoming impossible. Why not just move the story forward about 170 years, put the woman in a Corolla and the guy in a Hummer, and let the old "there's no substitute for cubic inches" principle take care of everything?


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## Foxee (Feb 27, 2012)

The Backward OX said:


> This is becoming impossible. Why not just move the story forward about 170 years, put the woman in a Corolla and the guy in a Hummer, and let the old "there's no substitute for cubic inches" principle take care of everything?


Isn't that fodder for a whole new technical discussion?


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