# Lyric writing advice



## moderan (Apr 27, 2010)

There don't seem to be a lot of decent resources on the web. Most of the articles are thinly-veiled ads for books about "How to Write Great Lyrics" or somesuch. A good portion of the rest are self-advertisements by aspiring musicians.
For those of you who are writing lyrics, I offer the following links as at least decent and informative:
Lyric or Poem?
How to write Lyrics
How to write Lyrics too

Thanks for taking the time to read...I hope it helps you improve your skills. And thanks for posting here.


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## MelodyMaker (Aug 26, 2012)

I found lots of lyric writing advice at songwriter.net


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## Don V Standeford (Dec 4, 2012)

Lyrics are best written when you already have a tune to work with that sets mood. otherwise it's tough to set tone, pace, rhythm.


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## corso415 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks alot!


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## Raptor980 (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks! This will definitely help on the song I'm working on and hopefully more songs I write in the future.


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## gokedik (Jan 19, 2013)

Lyrics, like poetry are written from the heart. If you need a book or website to tell you how to write anything you are in the wrong field. I don't mean to be harsh, just sharing what I know to be true. Instruction is destruction of what is original inside of you.


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## moderan (Jan 19, 2013)

Dogma needs walkies.


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## Nemesis (Jan 19, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with getting advice to improve your writing, be it from workshops, books, or writing sites. They can help you get your message across more clearly.


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## Lewdog (Jan 19, 2013)

The biggest thing about lyric writing is you have to have a good hook.


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## moderan (Jan 19, 2013)

Noxicity said:


> There's nothing wrong with getting advice to improve your writing, be it from workshops, books, or writing sites. They can help you get your message across more clearly.


Agreed. This goes for any branch of artistic expression that I've ever tried or even have heard of.



Lewdog said:


> The biggest thing about lyric writing is you have to have a good hook.



I disagree. I think it is more important to have melody. You could moan along with the music and make it work. What you need is the parts people whistle.


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## Lewdog (Jan 19, 2013)

moderan said:


> Agreed. This goes for any branch of artistic expression that I've ever tried or even have heard of.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. I think it is more important to have melody. You could moan along with the music and make it work. What you need is the parts people whistle.




I disagree, "the hook brings you back..."  -  Blues Traveler


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## moderan (Jan 19, 2013)

I don't remember any of their songs well enough to whistle them or play them on the guitar. Musta notta gotta lotta hooks.


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## Lewdog (Jan 19, 2013)

moderan said:


> I don't remember any of their songs well enough to whistle them or play them on the guitar. Musta notta gotta lotta hooks.



You're crazy they had like 5 good songs.  The lead sing lost like 100 pounds after they quit being popular.  I think his name is something like Dennis Poppler or something close to that.


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## enchantedsecret24 (Jan 19, 2013)

You were close Lewdog, his name is actually John Popper. He is an amazing artist, has one of the best voices ever. Still don't understand how he can sing and play that damn harmonica so well all at once. It's just one of life's great mysteries I suppose. I don't know...but he's great.


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## Lewdog (Jan 19, 2013)

enchantedsecret24 said:


> You were close Lewdog, his name is actually John Popper. He is an amazing artist, has one of the best voices ever. Still don't understand how he can sing and play that damn harmonica so well all at once. It's just one of life's great mysteries I suppose. I don't know...but he's great.



Thanks, I should have just looked it up, but I knew I had something close.


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## moderan (Jan 19, 2013)

Heck, I knew that, and the guy can play some harp, but the point remains. The mountains win again.


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## Stephanie1980 (Feb 14, 2013)

I have a collection of favorites, which I have been adding for years now. Thanks for the links you provided, I will check them out. One of my best links for an online resource is _The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Songwriting. 
_ 
Link: http://www.theashgrove.com/Alpha.Bo...riting.(2001)_.OCR.6.0-2.5.ShareConnector.pdf

Happy Songwriting Everyone! :watermelon:


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## Stephanie1980 (Feb 14, 2013)

true at times, otherewise the reverse happens  :alien:


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## moderan (Feb 14, 2013)

***


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## michaelsb (Jul 15, 2013)

Hi all,
I'm currently in the process of writing and composing a musical, so I was interested in reading this thread. Some days I write lyrics and some days I compose music, it depends on what inspiration I feel. One thing that helps me is if I have a couple of lyrics written--doesn't matter if they're the opening lines, closing lines, chorus or B-section--then I ask myself, "How does this sound when it's sung?" Sometimes it helps to have a couple of lyrics to set the mood of the melody, and from there, oftentimes the notes can take over. Then, once I have the music, I know the cadence and syllables needed, and can work on the words. Hope that helps!
Until next time,
Bridget


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## Nemesis (Jul 18, 2013)

I imagine it would help to actually be able to compose music ^^ I always have to use the sound of the lyrics being sung to guide the rest of the song, so all there is is the melody and lyrics.


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## huntsman (Aug 29, 2013)

I think lyric writing is an emotional break through......


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## ArrowInTheBowOfTheLord (Oct 29, 2014)

I have a question. What if I have some lyrics I want to post for critique, but I don't have a song or melody planned to go with them? Am I still allowed to post these on this forum?


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## Chesters Daughter (Oct 30, 2014)

Yes, you may.


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## Gwenni63 (Jul 26, 2019)

When I was younger lot of my lyrics contain themes. we would sing about freedom, self-control, love, socially conscious lyrics but now I have no themes to go by at 56 years old. I don't read a lot of poetry but I gathered that it was more flowery and lovely to express your your feelings of love or happiness in poetry.


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## yourdegausser (Aug 13, 2019)

Study. Figure out what themes your song is going to revolve around and then read up on them. While reading, write down any ideas that come to mind. Great lyrics are great without music. Sub-par lyrics use the music as a crutch.


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## ArrowInTheBowOfTheLord (Aug 17, 2019)

yourdegausser said:


> Great lyrics are great without music. Sub-par lyrics use the music as a crutch.



Mmm ... not sure that I agree with this. There are some lyrics that are great without music. A Hill to Die Upon's stuff comes to mind (current favorite set of lines: Thou hast the right / To anoint my head with vermilion / Mark of the joyful slave). 

However, there are other lyrics that I consider great that I would never read as poetry--"Gotta Serve Somebody" by Bob Dylan, "Freezing Moon" by Mayhem, "Am I Evil?" by Diamond Head, etc. It just depends. I usually write lyrics simultaneously with the melody, so I don't think of the music and words as separate things.


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## bdcharles (Apr 9, 2020)

I've recently started taking lyric-writing a little more seriously. Some of the stumbling blocks/things I've figured out and have to keep reminding myself of include:

- Trying to mean too much: much like my prose, I try and jam a ton of content in there, and invariably it comes up weighty. There is, in my view, a place for cliched expressions and workaday phrases in lyric writing. They're not the kiss of death like they are in prose. They give knockout lines time to shine (hey that sounds kind of lyrical).

Good example: "Hey Mr. Tambourine Man" (Dylan version); bad example: "Come Together" (The Beloved)

- the curse of the extra syllable. Trying to stuff a "just" or "the" in the beginning adds clutter. Cut it. Abuse grammar if you have to. Try and match syllables to beats, quarter-beats etc.

Good Example "Poker Face"(Lady Gaga) Bad example: "Don't want to close my eyes" (Aerosmith)

- plosives. You can't sing through a plosive - a consonant sound that is unchangeably short, like T or B or K. You can't elongate them.  Try and minimise these, or use them as beat keepers, otherwise again things can sound a bit bitty and spitty.

- catchiness; try and have a catchy chorus, and a catchy build. Catchy both in terms of pithy lyrics and memorable melody. I would argue that in a pinch put your crap in the verse and let your catchies take centre stage.

- nonsense: a bit like "trying to mean too much" sometimes you can just fill out some prime acreage with your "na-na-na-naa" and your "gabba-gabba-hey". Means nothing, sounds neat, doesn't really demand too much in terms of craftsmanship.

- stay on topic: try not to let the narrative arc of a song develop too much. Many songs seem to me to follow: have a feeling; then what happened; how did it end? Nothing more than that.

- Be powerful: This ties into catchiness but it's about the content of the lyrics rather than the sound of them. It might be the chorus or refrain but could be the last line of the last verse; some top real estate anyway. It's the money shot of the song so it has to crystallise matters. I often find that these are the first lyrics that pop into my head. Try not to let weak verses take away from the oomph of this moment. Have them be bridesmaids to the bride.

- Steal from other forms. Lots of popular songs take the form of little more than lists. "It's The End of the World as We Know It" by REM. "We didn't start the fire" by Billy Joel are just lists of historical events. There a song called "White Magic For Lovers" by a band called Drugstore that takes the form of a set of instructions for a spell, which is really the same as a recipe.

Anyone have any others?


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## BigBagOfBasmatiRice (Jul 6, 2020)

When I make songs (I really don't know if they are good) I have the song in my head, and then just start writing it down. I write down the lyrics and just...remember the melody. I don't know...
The one instrument I know how to play requires my mouth - a trombone - so I can't sing along (ha, ha.)
So I just sing them, and only think about how they would sound with other instruments:sulkiness:
I think I'm getting better, but I originally did it "for fun."
I _definitely_ don't consider myself an expert, or even a person to take advice from...


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## San Antone (Jul 14, 2020)

The best books about lyric writing I've looked at recently are the two by Stephen Sondheim.  He is a good teacher and the books are filled with his "rules" and anecdotes of his process of writing for his shows.  Everything he suggest can be applied to any kind of songwriting, not just theatre music.


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