# Where can I research rape for my story when it comes to this type of situation?



## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

For my story, a woman kidnaps a man and rapes him, and he wants revenge on her afterwards, and it's a crime thriller, so it's meant to be taken seriously.  However, I asked some people about it, and they said that they didn't buy the actual rape sequence itself and that I should write it differently.

I think it would be best if I gave a content warning here, before reading further


CONTENT WARNING


Basically the way wrote it, was that the woman knocks the guy out and then ties his hands and feet, the floor.  She then uses a penis pump to get him erect so she can get him hard, to rape him.  Now I originally wrote so that she didn't use the penis pump, but people told me that they didn't buy that he would get an erection in that situation of being tied up and kidnapped.  So I wrote in the penis pump so it would make more sense to the reader as to how she could get him erect.

However, some people I talked to about this scene to, said they did buy that she would use penis pump to rape him.  I asked why, but they couldn't really put their finger on it.  There was something about it that just seems off to them or unconvincing about it.

So I tried to do research on real life cases, but all the real life stories I could find about women raping men, the details are almost always left out.  I kind of have to fill in the blanks, but if a penis pump is not believable, then I should try to find out what a woman rapist would really do in this situation.  But I can't really find any stories where they go into details when I google it.  So what could I do for research on this, to write it more convincingly?


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## velo (Jan 19, 2018)

As the owner of a penis I find the pump scenario equally unbelievable.  I admit I've never used a pump but in order the maintain an erection for any duration I find it difficult to think this can be accomplished whilst the man is unconscious.  The brain is the biggest sex organ and the erection requires the brain to be engaged.  

Remember that the erection is not only caused by the blood flowing into the erectile tissue (which the pump may be able to accomplish to a certain extent) but also there are muscles that must be engaged to restrict the blood from flowing back to the body.  This is what actually creates the erection.  The penis is effectively a hydraulic chamber. Release the valve and you release the pressure and no erection.  

However, I might suggest you look at Viagra and see if there is any evidence that taking it would allow an unconscious man to maintain turgidity.  This would be much more believable, IMO.  Viagra engages those muscles and creates the backpressure so that the penis will stay erect with or without direct stimulation.  

As for the details about what happens, I assume you won't find much.  It's a terribly uncomfortable topic for victims of any assault.  Add to that the male stigma about being overpowered by a female and I'm guessing most don't talk about it any more than necessary.  I would say you probably have a lot of leeway in that regard but remember that rape is about power, even overpowering, and sexual assault is merely the vehicle for that in the attacker's psyche.


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## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

Oh sorry for not explaining enough.  The man is not unconscious the entire time.  She waits till he wakes up and then applies the pump, or so that is how I wrote it, but I can change it.

I was told that viagra wouldn't work though, cause viagra only works if the man is psychologically aroused to begin with.  And a situation of being kidnapped, and tied up with a woman, who has a gun, he is not going to be aroused or comfortable enough in this situation.  But in order for viagra to work, the guy has to be psychologically aroused to begin with.  This makes sense to me cause I used viagra before, when it was prescribed to me.  A couple of times it didn't work, and it was probably because I was not psychologically aroused enough.  It only worked with that psychological arousal.  As a person who has used viagra, I still need foreplay to get erect in order for it to work, and that foreplay wouldn't work in a rape cause the guy would not be enjoying it at all.  As a viagra user, I just don't see it working.

So because of that, and research telling me that men needing that for viagra to work, I thought it wouldn't work for rape.  Where as in my research I read that since the pump, fills the penis with blood, like a vacuum, the penis will therefore get erect under any circumstance, no matter if the guy is psychologically aroused or not.  So I thought that the pump would be a lot more believable therefore.  But she would have to use a penis ring too, to prevent the blood from going back into the body.

But for some reason people are telling me they don't buy the idea of a pump, but they can't say why, or put there finger on it, and that is what is confusing me about it, as I don't know what the problem is therefore.


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## velo (Jan 19, 2018)

Well, I learned something today.  I've never taken V but I assumed it would work with a much lower threshold of arousal.  

The arousal is still something that I question for the pump scenario.  In imagining myself in that scenario I can imagine being enraged and/or scared...both of which would likely render me useless as a sex partner.  (read: wet noodle)  Without doing any research I have to believe that female to male rape is very uncommon.  When it does happen are there stats on if there is already an existing relationship (sexual or otherwise) between the two where there could be other factors at play to create the power dynamic and allow the man to perform?  Just because of the biological/psychological realities I find the idea of a woman raping (specifically referring to penetrative sex using the penis) a male stranger somewhat implausible.


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## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

Yeah that makes sense.  I want to write it as plausible, just not sure now.  So far I wrote it that she kidnaps and ties him up, uses the pump, and then she uses a pistol she has to force him to uncuff himself, and make his way to the shower, and scrub off all the evidence.

But that is just how I thought would be the best way to write it.

Basically with the pump, blood goes into penis and erects it, regardless of the guy's psychological arousal or mood, I was told, so I thought it would work best for her.  But yeah, it's very uncommon and in my story, her victim has no prior relationship with her.  She wants to kidnap and rape a stranger.  But she's definitely no ordinary character either.


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## velo (Jan 19, 2018)

My assumption would that the moment the pump comes off the deflation begins.  

Could she do something other than attempt tradition penile-vaginal penetrative sex?  Power can be exerted in a myriad of ways.  She could penetrate him with a toy or strap on...that would equally be rape and perhaps provide her with the psychological satisfaction she is looking for.


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## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Basically I thought she would put one of those penis rings on him before pumping him, since the ring keeps the blood in the penis better.  But if that's not good I could write it differently.

I have had others suggest anal penetration before, but I thought maybe it was best if I didn't use it.  It's just usually in fiction, a lot of times when it character is raped, it's almost always anal it seems, especially if it's a male character, to the point where it kind of feels like a cliche or a gimmick maybe.  But maybe it's better, it just feels more cliched to me.

I guess it just comes off as overused as if the writers were thinking, PIV rape is not enough to make the audience feel it, we have to go anal.


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## velo (Jan 19, 2018)

I mean...where else are you going to rape a guy?  The mouth is too dangerous (CHOMP!).  Also the penis ring is also based on arousal.  You can deflate pretty quickly with one one unless it's agonisingly tight.  

I get your point but I think you'll probably want to focus less on the mechanics and more so on the emotional/psychological factors to avoid the clichés.


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## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

Well originally I wrote it so it concentrated less on the actual rape sequence, but readers that I showed some of the story too so far, had all these questions about how she was able to rape him and how, so I felt I had to include specifics, since readers were becoming confused.

I thought maybe she could force him to go down on her as well, like maybe with a gun, like he's going to get shot to death if he doesn't, if that's any better?


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## velo (Jan 19, 2018)

Yeah, you don't have an easy task ahead of you.  This is one of those things that very few people know about but everyone has an idea about how it could or could not go down.


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## ironpony (Jan 19, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Well the thing is, I feel that even though no one believes this whole penis pump rape, no one seems to know what to do instead.  So I feel I may just have to release the script with it in, cause no one knows what's wrong it, in order for me to know how to fix it seems.

Maybe the ring won't work, but I can do some more research on that, but still no one knows.


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## andrewclunn (Jan 20, 2018)

I read a news story about how a woman was accusing a man of rape because they didn't meet up until the hotel room, and the lights were off.  He used another man's picture for his tinder profile and so she thought it was a risque night with this good looking guy,  Finds out in the morning what he really looks like, and yeah.  Actaully, that's not too far off from some women with makeup, but that's another topic.


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## ironpony (Jan 20, 2018)

Oh that's unfortunate that happened to her.

In mine, my victim is happily married, and doesn't want any other woman, so he wouldn't go out of his way to meet another woman.  So this rapist is going to have take him by force, or surprise, since he would not be willing to meet her under extramarital circumstances.


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## andrewclunn (Jan 20, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Oh that's unfortunate that happened to her.
> 
> In mine, my victim is happily married, and doesn't want any other woman, so he wouldn't go out of his way to meet another woman.  So this rapist is going to have take him by force, or surprise, since he would not be willing to meet her under extramarital circumstances.



Yes, what I was getting at is that she could pose as his wife.  Perhaps setting up an elaborate "date" that he thinks is his wife because the notes left indicate as much.  Then there's blindfolded sex acts in the dark, which he only realizes part way through are not with his wife.


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## ironpony (Jan 20, 2018)

Hmm perhaps that might work...  The plot is already busy cause of other elements that tie in with it, but I might be able re-arrange it a bit so it works like that.  But... wouldn't he notice a different body on top of him, even if blindfolded?  I mean other people feel different and all.  She could cuff him so when he realizes it's not her, then he can't move.  I still need her to get away with the crime, so she would have to clean him and get rid of all the forensic evidence still, so she still needs to subdue him to do that though.

If she chooses to cuff him though, I don't see the male character being the bondage, being tied up type though.

The way I had it so far was that he is a detective working on a case, and she was a witness to the case, but she was dropped as a witness cause she her interview with the police deemed she was not credible. So the police have other witnesses to use instead.

However, other villains in the story thinks that she knows too much, and do not know that she was deemed not credible so they come after and break into her house, and get her to talk about what she knows, and what she told the police.

She manages to escape, and then calls the main character, who then arranges to protect her, until they can get her better protection detail.  It's while he was protecting that she manages to get the drop on him, when he's not expecting it, then rape him, and then get rid of all the evidence, so she can cause plausible deniability afterwards, if he reports it.

So I would have to change a lot around, cause he wouldn't be having sex with his wife, if he is suppose to be busy protecting her from the people who intruded into her house.


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## Darren White (Jan 20, 2018)

This is a horrible question, but I guess if you wish to write about it, this is the place.....
Ok, I am male and was raped. 
The point it, you don't need to get an external device to make anyone have an orgasm, or whatever. It's an involuntary reaction of the body, not controlled by emotion.


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## aj47 (Jan 20, 2018)

Has anyone bothered to google it?  Wikipedia has a page on rape of males with a subtopic of female on male rape.  The top hit I got was an article on the Mirror where men share their stories of being raped by women.

Those links are to the material and I chose not to read the content.  Finding is as much of your research as I'm intending to do.


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## Darren White (Jan 20, 2018)

Or check THIS PAGE.
This is just part of research, there is a lot of info available on the internet, or even with hotlines you can call, so......


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## EmmaSohan (Jan 20, 2018)

What if she hires a man to rape him?

That would solve your mechanical problems, and it might better motivate his desire for revenge. You would have to, um, embrace the brutality. I don't know your situation or whole book, but being too nice in a book is usually a mistake.


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## ironpony (Jan 20, 2018)

Okay thanks.  I checked out the stories on Mirror, but those ones were different, and wasn't quite sure if it would apply to mine.  For one thing, on mirror, some of the guys said they were passed out when it happened.  But I was told on here, that it's not believable, that a woman could rape a guy, if he was knocked out, so I didn't think that would work then.



Darren White said:


> This is a horrible question, but I guess if you wish to write about it, this is the place.....
> Ok, I am male and was raped.
> The point it, you don't need to get an external device to make anyone have an orgasm, or whatever. It's an involuntary reaction of the body, not controlled by emotion.



I originally wrote it so the reaction was involuntary, but people I asked told me they didn't find it believable, that he would get an erection, if he was being raped.  Which is why I wrote in the penis pump.  I could write it in so his reaction is involuntary, but people said they didn't believe that while reading it, cause he's screaming and crying, and acting in a manor, in which he wouldn't get an erection they thought.

Also I'm very sorry to here that you were raped.  My condolences.



EmmaSohan said:


> What if she hires a man to rape him?
> 
> That would solve your mechanical problems, and it might better motivate his desire for revenge. You would have to, um, embrace the brutality. I don't know your situation or whole book, but being too nice in a book is usually a mistake.



Well then I would have to write in a new character with new motivations as to why he would do something like this then, and who this character is.  I'm trying to cut down on characters and not add more.  Am I being too nice about this situation though?


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## aj47 (Jan 20, 2018)

What I don't comprehend is why you hadn't done that simple of a search yourself before coming here. Do you have some sort of issue? I'm asking in all seriousness because you seem to come running to writing forums to ask research questions instead of ... well, doing research.  Would directions to a source on how-to-research be appropriate?


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## ironpony (Jan 20, 2018)

No I did research on it before coming here, it's just a lot of news stories leave out a lot of the details, so I didn't have as much to go on, and had to fill in the blanks in the writing.  Most stories do not share a lot of the details.  A lot of guys say they found themselves raped by the women, but how they got the erections, a lot of them didn't say, and I was told by people, that I need to come up with a way as to how she gets him the erection, like a penis pump or something like, or so I was told.  But other people say the pump is a bad idea.  So not sure what now, and most real stories leave out details like that.


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## Darren White (Jan 20, 2018)

ironpony said:


> I originally wrote it so the reaction was involuntary, but people I asked told me they didn't find it believable, that he would get an erection, if he was being raped.  Which is why I wrote in the penis pump.  I could write it in so his reaction is involuntary, but people said they didn't believe that while reading it, cause he's screaming and crying, and acting in a manor, in which he wouldn't get an erection they thought.
> 
> Also I'm very sorry to here that you were raped.  My condolences.



I can tell you that you honestly should have a look at what is available on information about this subject. There is HUGE research done, much info available. Hearing what other people think is simply not enough. 

I can tell you from personal, very humiliating, experience, that erections and the rest are very well possible and don't need any extra equipment. 

So don't base your research on hearsay.


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## ironpony (Jan 20, 2018)

Okay thanks, I understand that.  In researching the true stories, it seems a lot of guys got erect involuntarily.

 But what other people think is important, cause if people say they do not buy the getting an erection when kidnapped is a problem for them, then it's a problem.  I have to earn the readers belief in the story, and if they don't believe it, how do I convince them that getting an erection while kidnapped, is possible?


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## seigfried007 (Jan 21, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks, I understand that.  In researching the true stories, it seems a lot of guys got erect involuntarily.
> 
> But what other people think is important, cause if people say they do not buy the getting an erection when kidnapped is a problem for them, then it's a problem.  I have to earn the readers belief in the story, and if they don't believe it, how do I convince them that getting an erection while kidnapped, is possible?



"Nuking the fridge" is a term for when something actually would happen in just the way the audience says it couldn't possibly happen. 

If you do a good enough job convincing readers of the emotional states of the victim and even perpetrator, you'll see less stupidity arguing against you. Erections are complicated, and there's been a lot of research going into them because they're super important to guys who are willing to fork over the money to finance research there. I've seen everything "proven" no matter how you slice it in this case. It all depends on which true life story you read, which research was quoted, how the studies were done, etc. Reactions in situations are as varied as victims, perpetrators and scenarios are, so, just because one person might not be able to get an erection in a given circumstance, does not mean another wouldn't. 

Also, (another icky topic that you might research into) your victim might have some of the same issues as women who orgasmed during rape. It tends to make them feel exorbitantly ashamed, but, as female victims are far more common and "able" to come forward, you might find some good research material there. 

Do make sure you do an excellent job with your perp here. If she can't hold it together as a convincing perp, you're out of luck in this story. Women rapists don't happen often, and they're almost always paired with some sicko dude. If she was the more date rapey, Bill Cosby-type perp, it might make more sense than some rabid, penis-pump-wielding hag.


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## ironpony (Jan 21, 2018)

Okay thank you very much for the input, as well as everyone else 

I can't really make her the date rape type per say, because the victim is married and wouldn't go on a date with another woman.  So she has to get to him in a non-date type of way most likely.   I even have a scene earlier in the script where she tries to ask him and he rejects her saying he's married, so that doesn't work for her.  At least that is how I wrote it so far, so she would have to try something more therefore.

As for whether not he would orgasm, I haven't decided yet.  The reader is already confused about the idea him getting an erection, so they might be even more confused if he has an orgasm.  I thought maybe it would be best to make the rape as clear back and white as possible and have the guy scream and struggle, and cry, and make it absolutely clear he is not wanting and trying to break free and escape.  If that's best...  If not, maybe I could go for him having an orgasm, just not sure how to approach it.


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## aj47 (Jan 21, 2018)

Look, "the reader" is not confused.  You are confused.  I say that because you are in control.  As writer, you decide how this goes down. You have the entire thing in your hands.  When "the reader" reads it, they will believe it based on your ability to convince them. It's not always what you say, but how you say it.





			
				DinoIgnacio said:
			
		

> Star Wars: A New Hope is the story of an orphaned farm boy who is radicalized after a military strike kills his family. He is indoctrinated into an ancient religion and joins a band of insurgents on a terrorist attack that kills 300,000 people.



Write your scene the way you see it going down then post it. Instead of asking how to change the action, ask how to change the portrayal so it becomes believable.  Literature is filled with books about impossible things believably portrayed (hobbits destroying artifacts of power for example) so the possible should be less of an issue.

This means you have to write and share. This site have workshops that keep your work safe from "publication" and non-member viewing. Use them. And yes, you may have to revise. That happens with any good writing.


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## Neetu (Jan 21, 2018)

Ironpony, I think you may well have to change your plot to reflect seduction rather than rape. It is physiologically difficult to sound convincing with the scenario you are describing. I would encourage you to consider that.


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## seigfried007 (Jan 21, 2018)

"Date rape type" meaning someone who uses sedatives, alcohol, benedryl, etc to get what they want. As men generally become erect while sleeping, it might make the plot more believable. This sort of rape is no less rape, even though it's tragically portrayed as somehow lesser. It would allow you a lot of ways to twist the emotional knife in your victim and actually make your story more timely and relevant.


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## ironpony (Jan 21, 2018)

Okay thanks.  The thing is, is that the way the plot goes, the victims is targeted by these gang members who are out to silence her cause she knows too much, and the victim, is her protection detail.  Earlier in the story, she was attacked by the gang members, and the main character saved her, and took her some where else, to be safe.  However, since he agreed to be her protection detail, would he really go to sleep, so she could rape him.  That's the part I am having trouble with.

The thing about using drugs is, is that she is going to want to get away with the crime.  If he reports the rape to the police, and he has drugs in his system, the police can use the drugs as evidence, as a means to investigate and poke around further.  If there is nothing in his system, that it would help her get away with the crime more.  But even if she were to slip alcohol in his system, he is on duty so he wouldn't drink.  That's also going to be a problem.  So I thought she would have to take him by surprise and subdue him by other means, since he's on duty and not suppose to go to sleep.


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## seigfried007 (Jan 21, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  The thing is, is that the way the plot goes, the victims is targeted by these gang members who are out to silence her cause she knows too much, and the victim, is her protection detail.  Earlier in the story, she was attacked by the gang members, and the main character saved her, and took her some where else, to be safe.  However, since he agreed to be her protection detail, would he really go to sleep, so she could rape him.  That's the part I am having trouble with.
> 
> The thing about using drugs is, is that she is going to want to get away with the crime.  If he reports the rape to the police, and he has drugs in his system, the police can use the drugs as evidence, as a means to investigate and poke around further.  If there is nothing in his system, that it would help her get away with the crime more.  But even if she were to slip alcohol in his system, he is on duty so he wouldn't drink.  That's also going to be a problem.  So I thought she would have to take him by surprise and subdue him by other means, since he's on duty and not suppose to go to sleep.



I would think she'd be even less likely to forcibly subdue her protection detail, I mean... when you think about it. I know you want this guy raped in the most disagreeable and least cliche way possible, but if the story is about his emotional turmoil, you're better off going realistic and letting him suffer on the page. Suffering is going to be there, regardless of how the crime happens. 

So, she's accosted by a gang and maybe develops a hero complex for her bodyguard. Hero complex breeds a different kind of rape--a gentler kind of rape. Just because he's on duty doesn't mean he will never sleep, never be relieved during a shift, never develop any kind of personal feelings for her (romantic or otherwise--it's highly probable that he might see her as a little sister or a daughter figure, depending on how you run him). If it's a longer term duty assignment (which is what it sounded more like), he might have spent a good deal of time with her. Maybe things got less formal, more intimate, closer. Maybe they got too relaxed as things were winding down with this gang issue. Maybe he had a drink or two with her and friends, other people in the protection detail, someplace he felt safe with people he felt safe around (he's a big strong guy, after all, so he's not likely to think of getting raped or being overpowered by a lady). She knows he's married but feels in her heart that she loves him and that--somehow--this is okay. Maybe he just needs a little budge. Maybe he just needs a few drinks to relax him. If she likes him at all, it's not going to be an overpowering thing. She's going to seduce him by alternative means, especially if she's got some marked issues with abandonment or rejection. She's gotten used to having him around and is desperate to keep him around, is desperate to show him how much she loves him--he just won't let her. So she nudges him with alcohol or roofies or maybe Benedryl and sleep aids. Hell, it could be like Hitch, and the poor guy has an allergic reaction to something he had for dinner, so she gives him a bunch of Benedryl, which knocks him on his butt. Play with it. 

If it's a violent thing, I'm not sure why she would go about it that way or even how (again, unless he was sedated or she'd knocked him silly through some other means). He's on her protection detail. This isn't the case of some weenie little guy who can't put up a physical fight against the big strong girl (which could be a neat story, depending on how it's written). 

A man is even less likely to go to the authorities than a woman probably is after being assaulted. Who's going to believe him? People are going to make fun of him. He might even lose his job from the ridicule. "She raped me" isn't likely to hold water with his wife, especially if this perp's attractive and young. He can't go to anyone about it because he'd be a liar or he'd be weak, and neither of those is tolerable to a big, strong bodyguard and family man. His profession depends on him being able to remain professional and give off an air of strength and capacity, and he can't do that with everyone thinking he's some weak dude or a liar.


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## ironpony (Jan 21, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Yeah I know, just because on duty doesn't mean he will never sleep.  But I thought it would be best if she rapes him in the next few hours, cause I kind of wanted this to all take place in one night, while he was still with her alone.  And he hasn't been protecting her for long, it's just been for a few hours before the rape in the story and she sets her predatory sites on him within that time.

I would say it has to be a gentler rape just because she develops a hero complex.  If the guy rejects her, she can still take the rejection hard, and she can still respond with a brutal rape I think.  But as far seducing him goes, she has already tried that earlier, and he rejected her.

And yes I was counting on him going to tell the authorities not going well.  However, the guy who is protecting is for the night is a cop, and I was told that if a cop reports that they were raped, the police are going to take it a lot mores seriously compared to a civilian.  So she still can't leave physical evidence of the crime, like having roofies in his system and all that.  When a person chooses to rape a cop specifically, they have to do a better job of not leaving any evidence around, compared to a civilian, right?

And it's not that I need to have him get raped in the most disagreeable way possible.  Basically the reason why I have plot elements such as the gang after her, and her having protection, is that these plot elements play into the third act I want later, so in order to have third act I want, I kind of need those elements to still exist in the story.

It's not that I don't want the rape to be unbelievable, I just want it to work within the context of this situation.

I mean basically in the story I still want the gang to accost her and her having to probably want to go the police and report it and get some help.  That part I can't change for the story to go, where I want it to go later on.  But I perhaps can change some little things in between that and her raping him if that's better.  I thought that him being her protection was better for the story, cause it gives both characters a reason to be in the same place at the same time.  If I get rid of that, then she needs to find some other reason to be in the same place with this married cop.  So doesn't him being her protection help put them in the same place, for this rape to happen?

I could have it so she serves him a drink, which he thinks is non-alcoholic, since he wants to be alert and is technically on duty, and she puts something in it to knock him out.  However, when he reports the rape to his superiors, they are going to find that in his system, so doesn't that make his story a little more evidence supported for the police to look into further?


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## seigfried007 (Jan 21, 2018)

It does, but I would think one night is too short a time. Maybe they've met before. Maybe they went to high school together, she had a terrible crush on him and has an obsession even with him. She felt ugly and awkward, and he was her hero in middle school or whatever, but he was so handsome and popular and upstanding, and she was so... not. So she goes on a fitness spree, gets prettied up, tries to reinvent herself for him, but when she comes back to town and meets him again, he's married... and he still doesn't want her. And she can't take it. She obsesses over it. She *_loves_* him (_don't you get it!?_) and can't get over him. So, she's accosted, and the one guy she wants by her side all that lonely night is *this guy*. But in this case, she's been planning it out. 

Maybe the drugging agent doesn't have an accurate way to test it yet, he wakes up after that testing window, or it otherwise might show up negative or inconclusively. Maybe the drugging agent is something perfectly normal and OTC, like sleep aids, anti-nausea/motion sickness drugs, and antihistamines. Maybe your main character has had an accident (or a genetic defect) that renders him unable to smell or taste some things well, so he's been drinking vodka instead of water or his scarf is full of chloroform, and he just didn't know it.  Maybe she hid it in something she knows he really likes (especially something with a  strong flavor). She injected it into some cherry cordials maybe. He's not expecting her to rape him, even if he might suspect she may try to get friendlier than he wants her to. He's waiting for seduction, but not rape. Rape isn't something that most men think about happening to them unless they're going to prison, so he's not likely to be uptight about a lot of things that a woman might be in that situation, and that makes it easier. If she's a prior acquaintance, he's more likely to be protective but not assume the worst about her, and that could make it easier for her to do any number of things--like clap some cuffs on him while he's looking the other way (though, my experiences with handcuffs don't lead me to believe you can covertly get them on some fully conscious person unawares--they're really uncomfortable and make noise). He will probably have a gun, a taser, pepper spray and cuff on him for duty (since he's a cop and not just a bodyguard), so she might get a hold of one somehow during the night (probably using a serious distraction like directly kissing him so his attention isn't focuses on his pepper spray) or maybe she brought one of her own (you can buy pepper spray and tasers, and they're debilitating, but then we're back to the "why does she want to hurt him?" question)


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## ironpony (Jan 21, 2018)

Okay thanks.  I might be able to go with something like chloroform or something, but a lot of these things can show up as evidence, I thought, so I was very weary to use them.

As for her knowing him before, I thought it might be too much of a coincidence if he knew her from high school or something, and thought it would be better for her sake if she was a stranger who he couldn't say much about.

They do meet a couple weeks earlier cause he investigates parts of the case and spends some time questioning her and getting a statement.  He then has some additional questions later on in the investigation.  Would that be enough time for her to want to do a crime like this, before that night, where she would also get to know him for a few more hours?

I was thinking of using the idea from the true story that was suggested to me on here before, where the woman came into the guys bedroom in the dark and he thought it was his girlfriend.  perhaps i could do something like that, but the cop would have to invite his wife over for a little hook up in bed, while he was making sure the witness is safe, which she is at this time.  But not sure if he would do that with his wife while watching her.  She would also have to listen in on the phone call and stop the wife from coming over somehow.

Or I could wait rewrite the story so she decides to do this on a different day but then she would have to somehow intercept and listen in on the communication between him and his wife and then break into his house to do it, which is more complicated.  But is that better or more believable?

Also a lot of these true stories if men being raped, usually they are asleep or drunk and didn't know exactly what had happened till it was over.  I could write it like that.  However, in other works of fiction, they tend to make the rapes more brutal, in order to make it more dramatic.

Like for example, in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo...


SPOILER


They could have wrote it so that the girl was asleep and drunk and that the guy snuck in and raped her and she thought it was her boyfriend or something, or she didn't know it had happened.  But instead they decided to make the rape much more brutal, where she was completely sober and awake, and could feel it all.

They did that to be more dramatic.  So I feel that if I go for this kind of rape, where the guy doesn't know it happened till later on, it would be less dramatic in comparison.  Does that make sense?  But then again, some people are saying they have problems with the guy getting the erection and in order to make that part believable, I have to tone down the brutality it seems.


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## seigfried007 (Jan 21, 2018)

Women don't have to have erections to be raped, dear. We can be and often are violently raped. Holes don't have to  do anything; poles do. Violent rape is about power, about proving something. If your man is a "hole", he doesn't have to be willing or erect, but you want him to be a pole, and that's trickier. 

I'm not sure why you're insisting on getting rid of cliches and dramatizing things, if the story is about his emotional distress. Adding violence poorly cheapens the emotional scarring.


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## ironpony (Jan 21, 2018)

Okay thanks.  When you say I'm getting rid of cliches and dramatizing things, which cliches am I removing exactly?


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## seigfried007 (Jan 22, 2018)

ironpony said:


> Okay thanks.  When you say I'm getting rid of cliches and dramatizing things, which cliches am I removing exactly?



No, I'm saying your need to purge the work of cliches is actually hurting your WIP. Don't walk a cheetah when a dog will walk just as well. You don't have to purge your work of everything that's ever been done; you just have to make the story yours. That'll be good enough. Just focus on making a good story. Use Occam's Razor liberally. 

You can visit tvtropes, if you're really worried about it. The nice thing about that site is that, 1) not all tropes are bad, 2) the comments at the bottom will mention times the trope has been put into a work throughout many media, so you can cross-reference to see if yours is fresh or not, or if it worked for another author out there, and 3) you can see all of the "averted" tropes under a trope listing.


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## ironpony (Jan 22, 2018)

Okay thanks.  But I don't know which cliches or tropes to use, cause I don't know what the problem is, with people not believing the erection is happening.  They believe it isn't happening, which means I have to write it differently.  But I am not sure how to write it cause I cannot put my finger on what the central problem is.  Everyone just seems to know something is off, but they cannot put their finger on it either.  I mean there have been several suggestions but I'm not sure which one to apply, or even if they can be applied or now.

I think there is a central problem that is throwing people off.  Like a problem with this that is spreading and effecting everything else.  But is there any idea as to what that could be or how to ascertain it?  I think I need to put my finger on two things, which is 

1.  What about the rape scene isn't believable believable to people.

2.  Why is it not.

But as far me not being open to cliches, which cliches am I throwing out though?  When it comes to talking people's suggestions, it's to hard for me to apply them in the writing, cause I don't know how to apply them.  Like for example, two suggestions that were made to me, is why not have the character be raped by deception, rather than a full on confrontational rape.  Or why not have him be rapped anally.

But I don't understand the WHY of these suggestions, or why I should tell the story this way.

For example, why does the rape have to be deceptive one, or why does it have to be an anal one?  If the suggesters were to explain exactly why and why it has to be that way, then I would be like okay, I get it, that makes sense.

But I'm not getting a lot of WHYs in the suggestions, and that why I an not understanding how to fix the problem I think.  Like for example one suggestion to me that is has been made by a few people, including on here was that the rapist, should impersonate the main character's wife and make him think that it's his wife that is doing it.  But do you realize how complicated this would be?  She would have to do something like bug the main character's phone, find out when he is going to be alone and sleeping and when the wife is going to be out, and then break into his house without him possibly waking up and noticing, etc, and then getting rid of evidence of a break, etc.

This is much more complicated in my opinion, and actually seems to make less sense in my story.  So I don't understand how I could apply this without the story suffering more.  And the suggester's who suggested it, don't even go into all the complications that would go into such a plan like that.  But that's one example, of how I am not able to make sense of some of the suggestions.


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## seigfried007 (Jan 22, 2018)

Something to keep in mind is that we're not here to write your story. We throw out suggestions, you take 'em or leave 'em. I have thrown out a lot of suggestions that would be less work and more plausible, certainly than impersonating a wife, bugging phones, physically torturing a man into getting an erection, using cruel and inhumane penis pump action against him...  You've received suggestions, but you're going to have to make the call. I just don't think you're well off humping sharks in the attempt to make this rape somehow new and different for your readers. Rape is bad enough on its own without adding fire and lights, rabid Tasmanian devils, barbed wire and penis pumps. You already have the the fact that it's a straight rape of a man (which is pretty unusual), but the big deal is how you're going to write him. All the penis pump research you do isn't going to amount to hill of beans if you can't write him convincingly.


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## ironpony (Jan 22, 2018)

Okay thanks.  Sorry I don't mean to imply that I want others to write my story for me.  I just don't understand they WHY of most of the suggestions and I feel I need to have that explained to me in order to understand the suggestion.

Well I could have it so that while he is guarding her, she makes makes him a drink of a something, and then puts some benedryl or something like that in to knock him out.  She drags him into the room of her convenience and binds his hands and legs.  Now in order to get him comfortable enough to get an erection without the pump, what if she were to feed him alcohol while he was passed out and try to get a lot into his system... and then wake him up, and then he would be intoxicated enough to get an erection, since in all the research of real cases I've done so far, the guys got an erection out of intoxication.

Would this be more convincing at all?


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