# The Race of the characters in your novel



## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

There is this weird misconception that everybody in your novel has to be the same race,or are white.Some people say they don't give their characters a race,whcihc makes no sense because ethnicity and culture determine alot of things about your character.

1)Case in point one of my main characters John Cassidy St.Cross is ethnically English and Norwegian with distant french ancestry,and his Uncle Blaire is married to an african american woman.This is important why?
-he has spent time in america (with his uncle and aunt)therefore knows how to pick up an american accent,which comes in handy when he's going undercover; it comes up in a novel when somebody finds out and he isn't in the system,he nearly gets deported.The Norwegian part comes into the story when he has to see family in Norway and something related to IKOL,and as for the french part,he is a blood relative of Joan of ark,which is again,important,

2)Isabella Venera Bertolli-Itallian , black american and french.This is important because:
-The people on the island her mother comes from,La Capulette (fictional place off the coast of france somewhere near Corsica),has been settled by blacks (during the harlem renassaince and slavery) and haitians,Greeks, Italiian ,Minoan and Sicilian people who were not catholic/christian,but instead worship the old Gods .Her ethnicity reflects her being from La Capulette.She is a nephilim which is normal there

3)Last case being Nikki Sloan is half Irish American and half japanese--his Actual name is Nikki Surono as his mother's name was Sloan and father Surono (such irony)--said name translates easily in both languages,Surono being a near translation of Sloan.His name Nikki is pronounced "nee-kee"the japanese equivalent.This is important because while he goes by Nikki Sloan,Nikki Surono is the name on his birth certificate--this makes it impossible for the big bad to track him because there is no Nikki Sloan that fits his description--hence when they give him truth serum and ask his name...he says it in a japanese accent,which to the non-japanese speakers interrogating him sounds like he said _Nikki Sloan __with a heavy accent.

_4)A neutral named Alexander Geist whom is the only one able to communicate with an AI called Panzer Faustus because he speaks and understands natural german as does his subbordinate Tiara Von keets---

and there are more examples because it is a series,but these are important ones.

So race and characters? What are you guys doin'?

Also noted,I am african american.I do NOT feel as though all my charcters should be the same race as me because that is just unrealistic.How do you guys feel about this?


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## DaBlaRR (Apr 5, 2016)

I mix a lot of race in my story. There are a few gangs and such and all of them are of different races and it is an important factor. My immediate group of guys (My MC and supporting) are all white, but are different religions (Jewish and Christian), which aren't MAJOR factors, but important enough to mention. 

It would be hard for me to let the reader just create the race themselves. That wouldn't work for me.


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## Patrick (Apr 5, 2016)

White, except the bad guys, who are all not white.

I actually need a drink after that one.

The characters reflect my upbringing and social environment, so they do come to me as very English and white, for the most part. I don't try to include people of every nationality or race in my writing, but I'd like to have the worldly experience to have characters of other cultures present themselves in my imagination, of course. I've never left my country of birth, so I work with the knowledge I have. Writing fantasy gives me a chance to imagine people of various cultures and ethnicities because I don't have to draw on real-world experience for that (I have enough knowledge from books and enough empathy to do that). But the central characters are white. I don't live in a particularly diverse part of England, so...

I don't think it should matter, honestly. There are lots of writers from various cultures writing what they know. I don't see a problem if their characters are all black, Mexican, African, whatever. I don't like the PC approach which demands diversity from an individual author.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

As a non white person,I unfortunately cannot afford to overlook race--I go to a mostly white college so I am reminded in the most subtle ways everyday that I am black,worse because I am a psychology major,whichI decided I wanted to be a psychologist because as a black person,these white people prodding at us,in our eyes you could never understand certain inherently black scenarios,thus you would never be able to help us.Being a black psychologist would certainly help the cause 

As far as my characters who are of various backgrounds ,I do not let a character's race completely define them,though it is a part of them as is with me.I didn't try to do an inclusion story.Their racees are integral as 1)Nikki Sloan can only get away with half the shit that he does because he is half white with light eyes and questionable features,that can't possibly be overlooked.If he was competely asian or resembled an east asian more versus looking obviously part white,there would be alot of problems (story plot-his name is japanese so they think they are looking for an asian man...not quite)

Isabella looking racially ambiguous allows her to pass for whatever race people think she is (she is light skinned,with light eyes and long jet black hair,full lips,wide hips,with a nose you'd only see on white folks) as to her benefit ,she doesn't bother correcting people.Her ability to soeka several languages help in this regard.

Johnny (John Cassidy St.Cross ,british/american dude) is so damn white,he makes wonderbread look look mixed (had to do it).So to their benefit,they send him on certain errands/assignments etc because like it or not,white his white privilege (and male privilege) helps .A lot. A skinny white guy with big blue eyes is far less imposing than a tall muscular ethnic dude and more likely to be taken serious than a woman especially an ethnic woman,worse if somebody suspects she is part black. 

an example would be if John was driving a car ,they wouldn't get stopped even if he had a dead body in it.He could wave at a cop and smile while he's got cut up corpses back there. Nikki may be okay,depending on the season because he tans .Isabella could probably get away as long as she doesn't drive too fast and straightens her hair, and not wear cornrow (she's a woman,who may not be black) .Johnny would be better off going into establishments and buying guns and stuff and any other potentially dangerous thing cuz again,he'sjst some skinny white dude.He could walk down the street with a shotgun and nobody would say anything,whereas Nikki might get stopped on acount that from a distance,tan skin and jet black hair=not anglo saxon and might not be white (confirming that its east asian and not latino would probably help...but still an unnecessary risk to bring attention on them).Hell Johnny could (and has) plant a bomb somewhere and people would be none the wiser cuz skinny white dude.


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## Patrick (Apr 5, 2016)

I think it's better to focus on human appetites, flaws and moral virtues. I don't spend any time in places where phrases like "white privilege" are common. I would be more interested in your characters if they weren't cliches. I am not sure how to respond to 'skinny white guy with blue eyes,' since I am one among many, and I am (thankfully for the rest of them) very different to the other daywalkers. The fact he#s white, not very big, and has blue eyes, should not be your main focus. Who is he?

If you walked around with a shotgun here, there'd be mass panic, no matter your skin colour.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

in america we have open carry laws in some states..in texas ,he'd be fine,in NYC? Not so much.So yes,he could walk around with a shotgun in certain areas and never be targeted,where as non whites following the same laws ,could be.

as for who he is as a person.he is more than just some skinny white guy but people make assumptions.He has a family,a history,hobies, etc.It's just that the reality of it is that certain people can get awy wit things others don't.No I don't bring up the word white privelage,that is just anvilicious (this user is a troper).And the only reason you can avoid the whole thing is because...gasp! you're white.And male.

privalaged people aren't aware of their privelage ---unless somebody else brings it up and you still might be in denial.

while I am writing I do not think of Johnny as the white dude,in fact it only comes up when I describe what he looks like--tall ,messy blonde hair,blue eyes, with a hint of green and covered in occult tattoos.He use to be in an underground band until he got into an altercation with an extremely petty demon who sabotaged a spell Johnny had cast and people died in the fire.Johnny turned himself into the police,but with no physical evidence,no witnesses and he was acting like an new nut ,he couldn't be prosecuted.Instead he was away  so they could purge him of his telekinetic abilities and get him some help (which since this happened in london,would've went down far worse if he was a middle eastern muslim.He would've been labeld a terrorist and you know this). when he was institutionalized,and organization that wanted to create bioweapons snatched him up with intent to use him as an weapon.He retaliated by turning the staff to thralls and breaking himself and the other patients out and washing up ashore in California

now,that along with his history of running with older women and his bondage kink, and love for cats ,and love for wearing hoodies,listening to metal ,his ability to play a piano  quite well,eating chocolate cake and the fact he has sticky fingers and ptsd have very little to do with him being white.The point is ,the way people react to him does hence some of his crazy shit he gets away with.


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 5, 2016)

WeNeedDiverseBooks.org has inspired me to outline my WIP with diversity. There are some great points addressed here. 




LeX_Domina said:


> There is this weird misconception that everybody in your novel has to be the same race,or are white.Some people say they don't give their characters a race,whcihc makes no sense because ethnicity and culture determine alot of things about your character.
> 
> 1)Case in point one of my main characters John Cassidy St.Cross is ethnically English and Norwegian with distant french ancestry,and his Uncle Blaire is married to an african american woman.This is important why?
> -he has spent time in america (with his uncle and aunt)therefore knows how to pick up an american accent,which comes in handy when he's going undercover; it comes up in a novel when somebody finds out and he isn't in the system,he nearly gets deported.



I am sorry, but I don't understand the term, "American accent" used in the context of blending into American society. I completely understand the context of being undercover. I can understand why that would be important. However, it doesn't work well with what you're trying to explain. I live in New England. New York and Massachusetts have their own accents. I do not have an accent living in Connecticut. We are all living in America. Most southern states have accents, but Florida is an exception to the rule. Why? Well, that's where I am confused. We all have unique voices, but not everyone has a unique geographical accent. You cannot differentiate someone in Connecticut from someone in Florida (other than attire and behavior to weather change). So, perhaps you need to clarify which American accent your character wants to pick up. 



LeX_Domina said:


> 3)Last case being Nikki Sloan is half Irish American and half japanese--his Actual name is Nikki Surono as his mother's name was Sloan and father Surono (such irony)--said name translates easily in both languages,Surono being a near translation of Sloan.His name Nikki is pronounced "nee-kee"the japanese equivalent.This is important because while he goes by Nikki Sloan,Nikki Surono is the name on his birth certificate--this makes it impossible for the big bad to track him because there is no Nikki Sloan that fits his description--hence when they give him truth serum and ask his name...he says it in a japanese accent,which to the non-japanese speakers interrogating him sounds like he said _Nikki Sloan __with a heavy accent._


I admire all the extensive work behind building these characters. It's quite impressive. 



LeX_Domina said:


> So race and characters? What are you guys doin'?
> 
> Also noted,I am african american.I do NOT feel as though all my charcters should be the same race as me because that is just unrealistic.How do you guys feel about this?



I completely understand. Many readers feel as if a certain race is set as a default role or position in a story, like a sidekick or suspect. In my WIP, I have a white male and female MC with a Muslim best friend tagging along. I also have Asian characters interacting with them. My focus correlates with my background in European, Middle Eastern, and East Asian studies. In terms of being unrealistic, I can agree with you. It's a natural observation that every race and culture should be a part of the story. Movies are diverse, but books seem to struggle with this concept. Do you feel as if there's a fear behind the author? Do you feel as if the author might be in their own comfort zone to segregate race from their writing? 



DaBlaRR said:


> It would be hard for me to let the reader just create the race themselves. That wouldn't work for me.



I really like the last line here. This is how I feel about appearance instead of race. I don't mind setting a race, but I am very hesitant with marketing a book with a clear image of how the character should appear throughout the story. This is why I chose a silhouette as my main cover. I want the reader to visualize their own appearance. I will describe the appearance, but I don't want them sold on a finalized portrait. 



Patrick said:


> The characters reflect my upbringing and social environment, so they do come to me as very English and white, for the most part. I don't try to include people of every nationality or race in my writing, but I'd like to have the worldly experience to have characters of other cultures present themselves in my imagination, of course. I've never left my country of birth, so I work with the knowledge I have.
> 
> I don't think it should matter, honestly. There are lots of writers from various cultures writing what they know.



I really like this perspective. It's solely on the purpose of exposure. What you were brought up to see defines your social limitations. What you want to see defines your potential to fill in the gaps. Many white authors will create white characters because they are comfortable with white people. It's just how they were raised. When any author of any color decides to step outside their own color is when they - as you've mentioned - are willing to invest in a global experience. If they cannot experience it on their own, they research the cultures instead. I think it speaks volumes (no pun intended) when a writer explores outside their comfort zone and upbringing. 

Diversity in books can make the plot more interesting. Despite being around World War II, what stood out the most was the divide between the two characters closing together. Phillip was racially prejudice from his upbringing. He had to learn to settle his differences to survive being blind with Timothy. 


*Theodore Taylor's The Cay: 
*










LeX_Domina said:


> As a non white person,I unfortunately cannot afford to overlook race--I go to a mostly white college so I am reminded in the most subtle ways everyday that I am black,worse because I am a psychology major,whichI decided I wanted to be a psychologist because as a black person,these white people prodding at us,in our eyes you could never understand certain inherently black scenarios,thus you would never be able to help us.Being a black psychologist would certainly help the cause



I admire your ambition. I was a former Psychology major at UConn before I declared something else. I can understand the tension is rising across all academic institutions. I can also understand where you stand as a Psychology major. It was seldom at UConn to see African-Americans pursue a Psychology course above the basic introduction courses. The courses designed for the majors rather than the general education requirements. These courses fill up for both the interest and majors trying to start their undergraduate careers. I saw more African-American students in my French (English spoken) culture courses simply to take the cultural studies requirement. I know how the French-born professor reacted to her African-American students. It's unfortunately visible on both ends, peers and professors, to understand how you are treated as a student there. I am sorry you feel this way, and I wish the best of luck in your studies. Pursue the degrees you need, become licensed, and make that difference. It's great to have diversity in that field of study, especially for the scenarios you have mentioned. 



Patrick said:


> I think it's better to focus on human appetites, flaws and moral virtues.



I agree with this statement. Allow the character to ponder the rest. Focus on the human characteristics. In Moustafa Bayoumi's _How Does It Feel to Be a Problem?: Being Young and Arab in America, _there are scenarios where I can admit to say - yes, that was meant to be introduced. That's the *concept *of the entire book - to hear the voices behind the stereotypes and to understand why Muslims feel as if they are the new black, according to Bayoumi. Allow the reader to digest the diversity and naturally digest how they want to interpret the racial factors. As long as the characters are human, race shouldn't be a main focus here. If there's history involved, the characters should have some strength to move on from whatever happened to them. 

Character building in diverse books can be tough for a writer. The way you feel motivated to become someone important in society should be seen as inspiration for others as well. As an African-American psychologist, other African-Americans will look up to you. You can relate to them and give them proper advice. You can evaluate them from your own experiences. In writing, it's that question of, "Who are you to tell me the character is doing something _*typical people*_ of _*their color*_ do?" This is why I try to emphasize the importance of why I chose to dive into diversity, and I try my best not to make any other intent from it. 

Thanks for this engaging discussion!


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## Book Cook (Apr 5, 2016)

If you're white and writing in English (with the intentions of publishing), chances are the Western world will be the audience. Therefore if you describe a character as black, you're racist, and if you do that show-don't-tell thingy by evincing certain racial stereotypes inherent in the character, you're racist. So if you're white and want another race in your book, the only safe choice would be Native Americans. There's nary a peep out of them about anything. And maybe Asians.


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## Annoying kid (Apr 5, 2016)

Doesn't open carry mean they can display a sidearm aka a pistol in a holster? They can't carry a shotgun in their hand and walk down the street. Even in America, right?



> the only safe choice would be Native Americans. There's nary a peep out of them about anything. And maybe Asians.



http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...-history-of-magic-in-north-america-pottermore


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 5, 2016)

Book Cook said:


> If you're white and writing in English (with the intentions of publishing), chances are the Western world will be the audience. Therefore if you describe a character as black, you're racist.



Not necessarily. The help of social media can make a book appear in all market areas. Now, that all depends on the content and if it's worthy to set sail across the sea to other countries. Secondly, it's not a matter of describing a character to be black, but the context of why the character was chosen to be black and how the character plays out throughout the story. If there's a significant reason to why the character is black with good merit of description and role, the author is going to be respected. Harper Lee, author of _To Kill a Mockingbird_, might have caused some serious conversations but she has passed a legacy as a respected white woman addressing racial complexity.


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## DaBlaRR (Apr 5, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> I really like the last line here. This is how I feel about appearance instead of race. I don't mind setting a race, but I am very hesitant with marketing a book with a clear image of how the character should appear throughout the story. This is why I chose a silhouette as my main cover. I want the reader to visualize their own appearance. I will describe the appearance, but I don't want them sold on a finalized portrait.




I agree. I am MOST of the time pretty vague about appearance. I also like to leave a lot of that up to imagination, with the exception of a few that appearance is important... but that's rare.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

I meant to clarify with Johnny New York accent,specifically Brooklyn because that is where his aunt and uncle live and he's been spending breaks there for years.As such Johnny can default to american English but NYC accent only...Sloan is a native New Yorker and Isabella moved there from California.


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## Annoying kid (Apr 5, 2016)

> I want the reader to visualize their own appearance. I will describe  the appearance, but I don't want them sold on a finalized portrait.



I feel the complete opposite. Always hated the idea of readers making up half my characters looks (and moves) for me. 

My protagonist is white and the king in the story is black. I'm half black myself and I was thinking would I ever want the main character to be portrayed by a different race. I'd be against it to be honest. Just because I want it how I wrote it. Same goes for gender swapping. One can argue various privileges and oppressions and various social justice theory, but I believe in keeping things fresh. I'd rather make a new character and make them a black woman for example. And make that character interesting as well.  Rather than having what I've already done, retconned. For example the recent Hermoine portrayal by a black actress. Rowling responded that the character can be black or white. Well...no she's not. Unless she's a chameleon (Or Michael Jackson). I don't care which, but stick with it.  And I understand the counter viewpoints. That young girls and boys of colour like the original protagonist best not necessarily the new character that was added afterward. And if there's various actors playing a character anyway, there's already a break in continuity aka the character's a mantle to be passed on. But it just doesn't extend into race in my opinion.


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## Blue (Apr 5, 2016)

I think race and appearance are quite important, although appearance less so. I won't straight out say their race, unless they do in dialogue, and just hint at hit and portray it in the way they act, speak, what they eat etc. I never wanted my work to be all white, just because I'm not all white either, and I wanted to add a smidge of diversity and play around with cultural differences. 

But the problem is doing this without offending or being unintentionally racist.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

In that respect,one thing I don't like is swapping race of pre-existing characters.I kinda want harry potter to stay white,I don't want samus to turn chinese and I don't want the Winter soldier to turn mexican...it's a disservice to the original character and to people of color.

make original people of color...

however certain characters,like the Doctor from Doctor Who could easily turn arabic next week and I would not care.It varies.Legacy characters can change but not the original (I like Rennee Montoya as The Question,and Sam Wilson as Captain america works too).

If I write a character a certain way ,I want them that way.That's why Ursula K. Leguine was pissed about the whitewashing of Earthsea. We make our characters a certain race for a reason


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## Patrick (Apr 5, 2016)

LeX_Domina said:


> in america we have open carry laws in some states..in texas ,he'd be fine,in NYC? Not so much.So yes,he could walk around with a shotgun in certain areas and never be targeted,where as non whites following the same laws ,could be.
> 
> as for who he is as a person.he is more than just some skinny white guy but people make assumptions.He has a family,a history,hobies, etc.It's just that the reality of it is that certain people can get awy wit things others don't.No I don't bring up the word white privelage,that is just anvilicious (this user is a troper).*And the only reason you can avoid the whole thing is because...gasp! you're white.And male.*
> 
> ...



OK, I understand the point, but I doubt the fact I don't hear about white privilege is because I am white and male; firstly, I am not in the echo chamber of social media; secondly, the part of England I grew up in and have lived in all my life isn't all that diverse and the other ethnicities that are here are just regular members of society. The Indians across the road from me, the black lady who works in the co-op, etc, are all involved in the community. If my family were black, do you really think we wouldn't have owned the businesses we've owned? So I guess I want to know just what it is that you think I can do that a black person can't due to a cultural bias? I suppose the real point here is that you're calling me privileged, as though I am not subject to the same rules as everybody else, without knowing anything about me. Isn't that the sort of ignorance that causes racial division in the first place?

Are you not more privileged than a third-world child? And if one acknowledges they're more privileged than someone else, are they supposed to spend all their time apologising?

You can disregard what I have to say because I am not high enough on the victimhood ladder (kind of an ironic privilege) to have anything worthwhile to say, but I am more inclined to sympathy when I am reading about human beings, of whatever ethnicity, who are being wronged in some way, rather than being lectured to about the privilege of my own skin colour by somebody who is, ironically, judging me solely on my skin colour.

Here's a shocker for you, the lead killer of young men in the UK is suicide. Do you not think marital break downs and the way children are treated as belonging de facto to the mother, where men are appreciated only as utility machines, first as a sperm donor and then as child support, is a contributing factor? I'd say the fact the state has done everything it can to undermine the contract of marriage, placing all of the risk and responsibility on young men, is a big example of the fact young white men are really not so privileged as everybody likes to make out. We also don't get 9 months of paid paternity leave to form the close bond with our children that the mother is afforded. The woman gets to choose a healthy balance of family life and working life, while the man is expected to do what he does best, load up that workhorse and slave.

Girls are now out performing boys at school, and this is not seen as an issue by modern feminists. Yet, somehow, it's the men who are privileged. Right. Tell me why there are no protests by women about the male-dominated industries of waste disposal and construction? The problem is, most of the men you're trying to guilt trip are already aware they have a crap deal. I'd say that the working-class man is the least entitled member of western society.


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## Sam (Apr 5, 2016)

Book Cook said:


> If you're white and writing in English (with the intentions of publishing), chances are the Western world will be the audience. Therefore if you describe a character as black, you're racist, and if you do that show-don't-tell thingy by evincing certain racial stereotypes inherent in the character, you're racist. So if you're white and want another race in your book, the only safe choice would be Native Americans. There's nary a peep out of them about anything. And maybe Asians.



Thanks for warning me. There I was, the whole time, calling my black characters black. As a white man. Apparently, I should have been arrested by the offence police.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

there in is the difference.

I'm an american.

here across pond ,things are much worse. Banks don't want to give us loans.we are forced to live in certain areas (redlining) .There is a quota to how many non whites can work at places,latino worlkers are hired and underpaid.There are  zero asian police officers ,despite the fact they are members of our population ,classism is a bitch.When I go into certain resturaunts,they will serve me last/not serve me until I leave because I am black.In stores we are followed by security,less likely to be hired for jobs--last hired first fired rule stilll applies,though there will be at least one token negro.I go to a college where EVERY SINGLE PROFESSOR IS WHITE,and this makes me uncomfortable.In fact,we had a race related incident not too long ago at the college. I have met racist bus drivers _racist nuns _.Police kill black people and get off,I have been stopped and searched by police for merely being black (stop and frisk isn't allowed anymore).

I always suspected it was worse here than there,which I wante dto include in my novel.Johnny ,one of the protagonists didn't even bat an eye at the race difference in the other characters because where he came from,no one gave a damn--conversly his aunt being a black woman and him going to her place (with her mother and family)whenever he came state side would most definitely make him not give two damns about such a thing.

and for young fathers...it takes two to make a baby.end of story. stop having unprotected sex and you won't be a young father in the first place.not trying to be an asshole but that is it.I don't have unprotected sex even on birth control because I don't want any kids yet...why is that so hard for people to comprehend? as for marriages though,the failure of a marriage is the fault of both parties,lack of communication and the ending of the honeymoon period...in which you realize you despise each other...which if you weren't so quick to hop in bed,you would realize the other person was a pain in the ass (then again,I am demisexual meaning I only have sex with people I feel emotionally connected to...so unlike the rest of the populace,I don't wanna climb on people I meet...unless I haven't met that person yet.Yes,some make me blush make me blush and I immediately avoid said people but no...so this is subjective)

I do agree,it is unfair the way child support does men.It is inhumane,how the hell is he suppose to take care of a kid if they keep taking from him? 
conversely...if you took care of the kid ,you probably wouldn't even be taken for child support...still,the system is unfair to men in that regard.And the fact is if you and a black man go for a job ,you are as a white man may be more likely to get it.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

Sam said:


> Thanks for warning me. There I was, the whole time, calling my black characters black. As a white man. Apparently, I should have been arrested by the offence police.



not really.calling us black isn't a problem.I'm a black woman I know this...but if you affiliate my blackness with something else like being dumb or ugly or conversly with me being exotic and beautiful (I'm a very pretty girl,so I understand - [http://www.writingforums.com/thread...e142?p=1985214&highlight=selfie#post1985214]- i jsut don't wear makeup) that is also racial profiling.

truth: trying too hard not to be racist is racist.those don't see color people that is ignorant and disrespectful because one must acknowledge cultural differences and things like the fact that you burn in the sun and I don't.Also don't aks questions about my hair (in the links I am pictured with hair pressed and unpressed)


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

Patrick said:


> OK, I understand the point, but I doubt the fact I don't hear about white privilege is because I am white and male; firstly, I am not in the echo chamber of social media; secondly, the part of England I grew up in and have lived in all my life isn't all that diverse and the other ethnicities that are here are just regular members of society. The Indians across the road from me, the black lady who works in the co-op, etc, are all involved in the community. If my family were black, do you really think we wouldn't have owned the businesses we've owned? So I guess I want to know just what it is that you think I can do that a black person can't due to a cultural bias? I suppose the real point here is that you're calling me privileged, as though I am not subject to the same rules as everybody else, without knowing anything about me. Isn't that the sort of ignorance that causes racial division in the first place?
> 
> Are you not more privileged than a third-world child? And if one acknowledges they're more privileged than someone else, are they supposed to spend all their time apologising?
> 
> ...



not judging you for your race,i'm questioning beliefs.the one person i admire the most in my life is my college professor in psychology and counseling.
she's white.

just wanna clear that up.and whether you notice or not,there are subtle ways to be racist ,subtle things.my neighborhood is half diversed,half divided.if you live in an area where everybody is one race,that is racist (the exception being maybe china town or korea town or little tokyo or little saigon,there are often cultural reasonings to this instead of redlining...white people are incharge of where you live...taht again,is racist)


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 5, 2016)

LeX_Domina said:


> there in is the difference.
> 
> I'm an american.
> 
> here across pond ,things are much worse. Banks don't want to give us loans.we are forced to live in certain areas (redlining) .There is a quota to how many non whites can work at places,latino worlkers are hired and underpaid.There are  zero asian police officers ,despite the fact they are members of our population ,classism is a bitch.When I go into certain resturaunts,they will serve me last/not serve me until I leave because I am black.In stores we are followed by security,less likely to be hired for jobs--last hired first fired rule stilll applies,though there will be at least one token negro.I go to a college where EVERY SINGLE PROFESSOR IS WHITE,and this makes me uncomfortable.In fact,we had a race related incident not too long ago at the college. I have met racist bus drivers _racist nuns _.Police kill black people and get off,I have been stopped and searched by police for merely being black (stop and frisk isn't allowed anymore).



I am sorry you have experienced this locally. Your college seems very small. At the University of Connecticut, I was fortunate to see a diversified faculty. Going back to your previous comment with psychology, and now connecting with my own experience - it's a great thing to see an African-American professor teach African-American studies. This is why I felt comfortable learning Middle Eastern culture from a Middle Eastern professor. This is why it felt great to experience a French professor teaching their own language and culture. My Chinese teachers did the same. I am not sure if I would be comfortable in a school that didn't reflect on diversity. 



LeX_Domina said:


> [http://www.writingforums.com/threads/146831-Post-a-selfie!/page142?p=1985214&highlight=selfie#post1985214]



Thank you for sharing your selfie with us. It's a pleasure to see a face to the discussions. 




LeX_Domina said:


> truth: trying too hard not to be racist is racist.those don't see color people that is ignorant and disrespectful because one must acknowledge cultural differences and things like the fact that you burn in the sun and I don't.Also don't aks questions about my hair (in the links I am pictured with hair pressed and unpressed)



I am sorry. I don't believe that's worded properly. People who are racially and culturally sensitive are considerate to prevent unintentionally offensive comments. That's why they watch what they say. It's not holding back from being racist, it's avoiding conflict because they don't mean harm. Now, I agree with you when you mention that. Yes, those who want to push color to the side are often ignorant and uneducated. We should all acknowledge cultural differences. We shouldn't play the naive role in a culturally diverse world. Yes, African-Americans are more protected by UV rays, but that does not mean they are entirely safe. They should still use sunblock. Sun exposure is sun exposure. Anyone, of any color or ethnicity, can sunburn.


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## RhythmOvPain (Apr 5, 2016)

...

IDGAF about stereotypes because typically, they are correct.

Instead of pondering the significance of someone's race, focus on their persona and character development.

There is no situation where the race of a character in a book is significant unless the story is racially driven. 

If you take it personally when someone writes a bad black character, then you are insecure and need to stop reading novels.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 5, 2016)

RhythmOvPain said:


> ...
> 
> IDGAF about stereotypes because typically, they are correct.
> 
> ...



i beg to differ.visibility affects people of color,women and lgbt people. it took forever for me to see black people in sci fi and supernatural stuff.watching sleepy hollow and the walking dead brought me tears of joy.its done right


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2016)

Race plays a HUGE role in my stories.

Gold, green, blue, red skin... all present in many different races from many different planets. It dictates a lot about how they interact with one another, whether or not they fit in with certain galactic cultures, and how many limbs they have. One of the main romance plots within my novels involves a pair of characters from historically warring races, a kind of classic Shakespearean romance of the stars, though not quite so dramatic.

Truth told, I have over two hundred unique races mentioned in my novels, and about two dozen that actually have named characters who show up in the narratives (and counting). It forces a lot of worldbuilding out of the writer. One culture's history and physiology has a very distinct impact on their lives, interactions with other races, interactions within their own race, etc. There's places in the small sliver of space I cover that are highly multicultural, and others that are dominant of one race (generally, racial home planets are this way).

Some of my protagonists are human, some are highly advanced aliens, some are near-primitive aliens, and everything in between all of it. It sometimes makes things difficult, having to keep up a small database of information about these races... but it's worth it in the end to paint a truly multicultural perspective on a deep future environment.

And, before anyone dismisses this as some rambling of a science fiction nerd, bear in mind: All cultural interaction I have knowledge of is very much Earth-based, meaning much of the themes and realities of human history's racial interactions dictate much of how I write this for the future setting I have. So while they might have green skin and white hair, the themes are very much resonant of our current reality. That's sci-fi's ultimate goal: show us something about the present using the setting of the future.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 6, 2016)

RhythmOvPain said:


> ...
> 
> IDGAF about stereotypes because typically, they are correct.


Wrong.  As an example, all black people are not on welfare.  In fact, a very small percentage is on welfare.  The vast majority are hard working individuals.

Another example - the VAST majority of illegal immigration are people who flew in and overstayed their visas.  In fact, over 50% of illegal immigrants are NOT Mexican.

Most stereotypes are based on what stands out to the observer, not the majority that go unnoticed.  Therefore, most stereotypes are incorrect.



> There is no situation where the race of a character in a book is significant unless the story is racially driven.


Wrong.  Race impacts your entire life as bias and treatment by society is altered by a person's race. Of course this only applies if you're doing a story in modern times and not an alternate reality where a society made race irrelevant.



> If you take it personally when someone writes a bad black character, then you are insecure and need to stop reading novels.


Dismissive and ridiculous.

Go watch Birth of a Nation and get back to me.


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2016)

RhythmOvPain said:


> ...
> 
> IDGAF about stereotypes because typically, they are correct.



This is a sweeping generalization ABOUT sweeping generalizations. That's two layers of incorrect. In fact, you might say it's multiplied instead of added, so we're talking about squaring the wrongness, so this is really four layers of wrong.

Saying a stereotype is "usually correct" tells me that television or some other medium defines your experience with the world. You might as well say chemistry teachers are "usually meth cooks".



RhythmOvPain said:


> There is no situation where the race of a character in a book is significant unless the story is racially driven.



Ooooh how wrong you are. Race can have a serious effect on a story without the story itself being "racially driven". It's actually somewhat telling that you say this... if you've never come across a story where a character's race played a role without it being a book specifically about racial issues, I'd argue you don't read very much.


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## RhythmOvPain (Apr 6, 2016)

> Wrong.  As an example, all black people are not on welfare.  In fact, a very small percentage is on welfare.  The vast majority are hard working individuals.



Irrelevant. Poor blacks, whites, and Puerto Ricans in the US ARE on welfare. When dealing with financial inequality, focusing only on the racial aspect is shortsighted and tired thinking that fails to address REAL problems. The minority is not the black man, it's the POOR man.



> Another example - the VAST majority of illegal immigration are people who flew in and overstayed their visas.  In fact, over 50% of illegal immigrants are NOT Mexican.



Focusing on America alone:



> * Who are the immigrants in the United States illegally? Where do they come from? In which states do they settle? What jobs do they hold?
> 
> As of 2012, the population of immigrants in the United States illegally is estimated to be approximately 11.43 million, roughly 3.7% of the entire US population. 59% of the immigrants in the country illegally are from Mexico, and 25% of all immigrants in the country illegally reside in California. 53% of the immigrants in the United States illegally are male. In 2008, approximately 31% of workers in the roofing industry and 27% of maids/housekeepers were immigrants living in the country illegally.
> 
> The demographic statistics below are based on estimates created by the US Department of Homeland Security, the US Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the Pew Hispanic Research Center.*



Not that it really matters. Illegal immigration is a problem ALL OVER THE WORLD. The American stereotype regarding Mexican immigration is hardly anything unusual or unwarranted.



> Most stereotypes are based on what stands out to the observer, not the majority that go unnoticed.  Therefore, most stereotypes are incorrect.



What?



> Wrong.  Race impacts your entire life as bias and treatment by society is altered by a person's race. Of course this only applies if you're doing a story in modern times and not an alternate reality where a society made race irrelevant.



Race is only important if you make it important.

I believe making race important is _stupid_. I've seen whites and blacks act equally retarded. Alternately, I've seen whites and blacks accomplish more together, more effectively than singular groups of white and black.

I've seen Spanish people marry Koreans, I've seen black people marry Native Americans.

One thing that I find hilarious: people ignore the facts to make themselves feel better (or simply delude) about racially fueled stereotypes. Stereotypes are more real now than EVER before.



> Dismissive and ridiculous.
> 
> Go watch Birth of a Nation and get back to me.



Go watch Gangsta's Paradise, Cocaine Cowboys 2, Drug Store Cowboy, White Chicks, Katt Williams Live, Lewis Black Live, Bill Maher's Religulous, and my personal favorite, Idiocracy.

Then get back to me.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Apr 6, 2016)

I guess this is as good a time to step in. I need to remind everybody that Writing Forums has a no debate policy. Please keep to the spirit of this thread which I believe is about writing about a character of another race, not about racial stereotypes, perceived or otherwise. Thank you.


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 6, 2016)

Going back on topic,  why do you think authors avoid diversity in books? Why not incorporate race into your story?  Are there special precautions to take while considering different ethnicities in your story?  On a personal reflection,  how do you write the dialogue in your diverse story?  You wanted one character to have a New Yorker accent. Is this depicted through dialogue?


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## Tettsuo (Apr 6, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> Going back on topic,  why do you think authors avoid diversity in books? Why not incorporate race into your story?  Are there special precautions to take while considering different ethnicities in your story?  On a personal reflection,  how do you write the dialogue in your diverse story?  You wanted one character to have a New Yorker accent. Is this depicted through dialogue?


Write what you know.  That's the idea right?  So if you don't know any people of color, you're more likely to not write about them.  I have no problem with that being a person of color.

The only solution is for people of color to write what they know.  If we (including myself as a person of color) rely on white people to write about black, Asian, Latino, etc. people, the problem is with the person holding unrealistic views about how others should express themselves.


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## Bishop (Apr 6, 2016)

I think in a lot of cases, authors also just don't think about it. I know when I began, I didn't put in physical descriptions of characters, so there was no indicator of race at all. Now, being a bit more mature as a writer I understand the role it plays, especially in a world building scenario and I make it a point to give some depth to it. On the topic of accents, I usually do write them into the punctuation and vocabulary and syntax of the characters' speech, but I try to keep it from teetering onto annoying.


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 6, 2016)

Before I leave for work,  I wanted to comment on the importance behind dialect. I believe, if done with respect to the group involved, dialect can provide a socially and culturally healthy awareness to the reader.  I believe this is what makes the story stand out from other works.  If the dialogue doesn't depict a southern accent,  for example,  the reader will have a different experience with the overall plot.


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## aj47 (Apr 6, 2016)

I think many people write characters like themselves when first starting out.  Except when writing aliens.  I did a writers' workshop at a science fiction conference a few years ago.  And yeah, the characters were a lot like the authors, physically.  Except for mine, who were athletes.  But then, I'd done a LOT of baseball roleplaying so that was not unnatural for me.


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## dale (Apr 6, 2016)

Annoying kid said:


> I feel the complete opposite. Always hated the idea of readers making up half my characters looks (and moves) for me.
> .



but the more the reader can personally relate to the character, the more the reader becomes involved in the story. that's why
i also leave much of a characters appearance up to the reader. 

as far as the race question? if i feel like i character is white for whatever reason, they're white. if i feel like the character is black
for whatever reason? they're black...and so on. i see the characters in my head as they are and i portray them that way. i don't 
really put a huge conscience effort into the reasons.


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## aj47 (Apr 6, 2016)

I failed to mention that one of my MCs in my workshop story was African-American.  I don't ever SAY so, but I mention his white smile on his dark face and the gold chain around his dark neck (he's a vampire--it's important that it's gold).  It's not important that he's AA, but it helps define him as a character.  He also is the better-spoken of the two characters (using a larger vocabulary and more complex sentence structure).  Anyone want to read the story, shoot me a PM.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 6, 2016)

astroannie said:


> I failed to mention that one of my MCs in my workshop story was African-American.  I don't ever SAY so, but I mention his white smile on his dark face and the gold chain around his dark neck (he's a vampire--it's important that it's gold).  *It's not important that he's AA*, but it helps define him as a character.  He also is the better-spoken of the two characters (using a larger vocabulary and more complex sentence structure).  Anyone want to read the story, shoot me a PM.



Why isn't it?  Shouldn't it be?

I ask because if the vampire was around during the days of slavery, wouldn't that have an effect on how he relates to the world?

I don't want to sound like an asshole, but I often find that people who say race doesn't make a difference are usually white.  That doesn't mean you don't care, just that you're not aware of the impact of race.


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## Riptide (Apr 6, 2016)

I normally write white people. But I'm white so it comes naturally to me. Also, I picture myself in those situations that I write, again, why they're white. When I wrote a story based in New Orleans, one of the characters was black. I guess it just depends on the story, then. Gotta be realistic here, even if you're creating it from scratch. If it's wintery wonderland, they'll probably have lighter skin. Vast desert and opposing sunlight, probably going to be darker than the average Joe.But also, I read this once, don't remember where but it stuck. That you write race in when it matters. So... what was discussed up there, the story is racially driven. Or at least, that's how it'll come across to the public.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 6, 2016)

Let me add, I don't believe that anyone should restrict themselves from writing any character, regardless of race.  Just be aware that there may be some social differences between characters that's influenced by the race of those characters.


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## dale (Apr 6, 2016)

Tettsuo said:


> Let me add, I don't believe that anyone should restrict themselves from writing any character, regardless of race.  Just be aware that there may be some social differences between characters that's influenced by the race of those characters.



this depends greatly on what area a person is from. when i lived in portland oregon i was shocked at the difference
in "race relations" there compared to indianapolis. my ex-wife is black, and that's where she's from. but i didn't meet a
single black person out there that considered these "social differences" in their lives. i joked with her..."the pacific northwest.
where the whites are white and the blacks are, too". and she just gave me this weird look like she didn't understand what
i was talking about. then she moved here and she DID understand what i meant by that comment. she couldn't believe it.
she was basically embarrassed of other black people when she first moved here.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 6, 2016)

dale said:


> this depends greatly on what area a person is from. when i lived in portland oregon i was shocked at the difference
> in "race relations" there compared to indianapolis. my ex-wife is black, and that's where she's from. but i didn't meet a
> single black person out there that considered these "social differences" in their lives. i joked with her..."the pacific northwest.
> where the whites are white and the blacks are, too". and she just gave me this weird look like she didn't understand what
> ...



There's an impact when you don't see yourself or people like yourself.  Particularly when you look at that person's ideas of beauty.

This video brings tears to my eyes.

[video=youtube;tkpUyB2xgTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkpUyB2xgTM[/video]

You know, as a parent, that this must have an impact on these children.


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## dale (Apr 6, 2016)

i've seen the video.


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## aj47 (Apr 6, 2016)

Tettsuo said:


> Why isn't it?  Shouldn't it be?
> 
> I ask because if the vampire was around during the days of slavery, wouldn't that have an effect on how he relates to the world?
> 
> I don't want to sound like an asshole, but I often find that people who say race doesn't make a difference are usually white.  That doesn't mean you don't care, just that you're not aware of the impact of race.



He's not that ... old/long a vampire.  But yeah.  Race matters.  That's not what I'm saying.  My point is that it's very tough for anyone to think outside their experience when creating characters.


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## RhythmOvPain (Apr 6, 2016)

dale said:


> but the more the reader can personally relate to the character, the more the reader becomes involved in the story. that's why
> i also leave much of a characters appearance up to the reader.
> 
> as far as the race question? if i feel like i character is white for whatever reason, they're white. if i feel like the character is black
> ...



THIS.

TOTALLY.

COMPLETELY.

YES.


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## Patrick (Apr 6, 2016)

Tettsuo said:


> There's an impact when you don't see yourself or people like yourself.  Particularly when you look at that person's ideas of beauty.
> 
> This video brings tears to my eyes.
> 
> ...



Kids are brutal when it comes to differences. They do the same thing with red/ginger hair in the UK. You're ugly because you're ginger, and you have a fiery temper because you're ginger, etc. Unfortunately, kids often take what other kids tell them to heart. It certainly does have an influence on the way you see yourself. It's a nastiness that kids just have in them.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 6, 2016)

dale said:


> I've seen the video.


But do you get my point?  I'm sure you'd agree that such, often hidden, views of oneself will have a serious impact on how that character will see and react to the world around them if they exist in a world like our own.

Race has an effect, even when it's not blatantly obvious.  But, that's what makes characters interesting.  Those subtle differences in behavior, speech and mannerisms.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 6, 2016)

Patrick said:


> Kids are brutal when it comes to differences. They do the same thing with red/ginger hair in the UK. You're ugly because you're ginger, and you have a fiery temper because you're ginger, etc. Unfortunately, kids often take what other kids tell them to heart. It certainly does have an influence on the way you see yourself. It's a nastiness that kids just have in them.


Kids reflect what we show them.  So, I don't think it's nastiness.  I think it's the result of living in a society where what you look like is in the minority.  Children in Barbados don't exhibit this behavior as the world around them reflects and resembles them.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 6, 2016)

Back on TOPIC though...

writing only what you know puts a limit on your imagination,though I believe it should be a base  to build off of so you are not completely unformiliar. In my case,Bells (Isabella) has experiences based off my half black/half Italian friend from highschool .She ,like all my friends were kinda goth-ish (we were drawing planetary runes on walls in the basement and going to occult shops).But again,to build the fictional isle of La Capulette,I had to do research more on Roman Paganism and greek mythology.Her mother was a stage magician and died on stage...so I had to start watching videos on magic tricks and illusionism to get it right.

With Sloan,one of my friends was half Japanese in middle school,so I was partially exposed to the culture,but I had/have to do reasearch to build more.He was from a catholic background but denoinced his faith years ago(ironically,he still kept his mother's rosary--and a jade necklace from his japanese grandmother) ;Not catholic,but et some and did research(I was lucky enough to end up with a religion class ,this helps).

 when I conceived Johnny ,he was distinctively british .Plus his backstory involves him running 'cross europe with an older woman who took him as a lover-,he would've logically been in europe for this to happen....plus he was in a psychiatric hospital after being unable to stand trial for a crime he may or may not have committed..said circumstance calls for him to be in england actually (looked up the hospital for it).

The thing is this: write waht you know is important to help build,however,it SEVERELY limits your possibilities.I am building a world with my novels and each series has a different set of main characters.It would be ridiculouslfor every character to be a straight white american male in his 20's-30's ...that is just ludicrous.

The important this is that they are people first and if you cn understand what it is to be a person ,with some research , empathy and input from people of said background,you should be able to write decent ,well rounded characters.

Anyone who plays videogames knows that the developers are NOT afraid to create likeble and relateble characters of a race other than their own ,same for screen writers, so I give these people mad respect.Book writers need to get onboard and get their act together because I see more POC's on tv than I read about in novels.


All this could only be possible under the circumstances of their backgrounds


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## bazz cargo (Apr 6, 2016)

Hello LeX_Domina,
welcome to WF. I'm very pleased to meet you.

You pose a surprising question. I have been looking over my own limited amount of work. Mostly my characters are middle class and white. Strangely my first attempt at a novel features Native Americans and Hispanics. A modern day take on the Western. There are some Afro-Carribean characters but as of yet they don't have much of a central role. I will take some time to examine the possibilities. 

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Respect
BC


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## MzSnowleopard (Apr 6, 2016)

I only deal with humans, other races are just a bit too much of a stretch for me.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 6, 2016)

MzSnowleopard said:


> I only deal with humans, other races are just a bit too much of a stretch for me.


I can deal with that ,not everyone's cup of tea

On a side note ,some people deal with aliens(star wars and star trek BOTH averted this) or vampires and the like and everyone is still mystically white.I am NOT a fan of twilight,but can we give ms.meyer points for having some non-white people featured rather prominently? and true blood for ethnic vamps existing in their verse


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## dale (Apr 6, 2016)

LeX_Domina said:


> I can deal with that ,not everyone's cup of tea
> 
> On a side note ,some people deal with aliens(star wars and star trek BOTH averted this) or vampires and the like and everyone is still mystically white.I am NOT a fan of twilight,but can we give ms.meyer points for having some non-white people featured rather prominently? and true blood for ethnic vamps existing in their verse



most vampire stories are set in mainly caucasian areas. probably the reason for them being "mystically white". how many black people live in transylvania, anyway? or london? or the various other regions these stories are set in? most of the vampire stories i see in a modern urban american setting do detail a variety of races.


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## MzSnowleopard (Apr 6, 2016)

I'm sure that London has a healthy diversity of ethnicity. 

I wouldn't consider vampires a race - they're undead, that's a different class.


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## dale (Apr 6, 2016)

MzSnowleopard said:


> I'm sure that London has a healthy diversity of ethnicity.
> 
> I wouldn't consider vampires a race - they're undead, that's a different class.



i was referring to old london, where some of the tales have been set.


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## MzSnowleopard (Apr 6, 2016)

You're saying blacks weren't shipped there like they were to the States ?


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## dale (Apr 7, 2016)

MzSnowleopard said:


> You're saying blacks weren't shipped there like they were to the States ?


my point is..they were an extreme minority. it would have been stupid to throw them in the story. and as far as all that
slavery crap? did you know that at the same time the american colonies had black slaves, that there were over 1 million
white slaves owned by blacks and arabs in africa? what do you think the barbary wars was about? that's why i don't buy
into all this "oh. the poor black american" crap. and why i think black people who think like the white man has some duty
to make anything different is just a total crock of shit. every race on this planet has been slaves. people need to get over it.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 7, 2016)

dale said:


> my point is..they were an extreme minority. it would have been stupid to throw them in the story. and as far as all that
> slavery crap? did you know that at the same time the american colonies had black slaves, that there were over 1 million
> white slaves owned by blacks and arabs in africa? what do you think the barbary wars was about? that's why i don't buy
> into all this "oh. the poor black american" crap. and why i think black people who think like the white man has some duty
> to make anything different is just a total crock of shit. every race on this planet has been slaves. people need to get over it.



virtually every nation had slavery---just that slaves were usually integrated into society,via mixing or other means.

black americans had to pout up with the Jim Crow era [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws 


[/URL]


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## alanmt (Apr 7, 2016)

Most of the characters of my recent work are elves, though they're not your father's Tolkienesque elves. But yeah, there are humans, a dwarf, and an orc-ogre mixed race gentleman. Racial oppression is a big part of the plot.


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## dale (Apr 7, 2016)

LeX_Domina said:


> virtually every nation had slavery---just that slaves were usually integrated into society,via mixing or other means.
> 
> black americans had to pout up with the Jim Crow era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws



and? the irish, the railroad chinese, the japs were put in interment camps by FDR during WW2, the jews....
...seems like a lot of ethnicities were discriminated against in america. not like blacks hold a monopoly on it.


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## Deleted member 56686 (Apr 7, 2016)

Okay, now I can't be so nice. Again, this forum, and certainly this thread is not for political debate, period! Any more lapses in judgement and this thread will be locked and extreme statements will be discussed by the mods. Are we understood?


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 7, 2016)

Yes .I am truly sorry.My intention for this thread was not for it to fall into this.I merely wanted to doscuss the idea of workingbwith muilti ethnic cast members in novels.I am writing a series and many of my characters fall across the racial spectrum and I wanted to know how common this was.I am truly sorry for this.


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## bdcharles (Apr 7, 2016)

With regards to race in novels, I was quite conscious of not wanting to write a white male hegemony into my fantasy, proto-steampunk effort - mostly because it's cliched - but on the other hand, I don't want to shoehorn in minorities to manage quotas and whatnot. I want it to be natural yet accessible to as many as I can. So I just figured I would assume a fairly mixed land, b***er the history of how that came to be, pretty much distribute them wherever and let them get along or don't. Of course the beauty of fantasy is that you can break free of real-world dilemmas if you like, but as I say, I was going for relatability as the concept of how fantasy races deal with daily problems of the sort we face is intersting to me (yes, the "elves" have a penchant for street drugs and the "fairies" tend to find work in the adult industry  ) My MC is, in my head, mixed race female but that's because she is based on someone I know, and the rest followed from that. That said, abuse of power is a theme in this story but the abuse tends to flow from alpha types to just regular people, another theme I wanted to tackle.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 7, 2016)

And that is aok. I always found it odd when there can be elves and things,yet the humans all one race.That was too weird.Then I played elder scrolls and that inspired me in part to recognize a world where POC and fantasy can exist.As such one of my novels on the burner is about that worlds equivalent of being carribean who was orphaned when her island was destroyed by a storm dragon,her mother using mystical bracelets to seal it away before she parished.Said protagonist ends up becoming a theifa nd while on another assignement steals her mothers bracelets which were on display at a museum at the capital.Natuarally things hit the fan from there...

But thank you for your contribution and calmly pointing aout the fact that characters of any ethnic background can exist in fiction particularly s i fi or fantasy.

I went my entire childhood not seeing this and only saw it as an adult woman.I intentionally waited out the years because had I published my first novel back then when I was 16 yrs old with a black protagonist in a fantasy world surely it would have failed


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## bdcharles (Apr 7, 2016)

Yep. Another thing I wanted was to have my characters all a bit ... lumpy and flawed. My MC has sticky-out ears, one of the main supporting guys is basically asthmatic and puny, a third has heterochromia (sp?) which is actually rather cool. Several are old or overweight. I will say though that most are caucasian though by no means all. That's just what I know most and tend to visualise. Normal people doing amazing things - that's what I wanted.


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## TKent (Apr 7, 2016)

Great thread. For me, the past two years have been about learning how to write. And I'm talking the basic ability to string words together in a way that results in fiction that someone (especially me) would want to read. So I stuck as much as possible with what I knew. I'm starting to branch out now and write stories that aren't about what I know. So it depends on the story itself. I love diversity of characters in a story whether it be race, socioeconomic status, gender, sexual preference, etc. One of my favorite sci-fi series is by Octavia Butler, and the main human character in book one is Lilith, a strong, pragmatic black woman, who is the one chosen by aliens to help them lead her people (humans) into a gene trade with these aliens or basically say bye-bye to the human race. Seriously great book and just touches on differences on so many levels. The humans gross out because the human/alien babies have a few stray tentacles here and there.

I also love that so many of the small presses and ezines in the speculative fiction arena, seek out diversity in stories, not just race, but everything. Honestly, I strongly  believe that at the heart of most racial, religion, gender issues, is lack of knowledge. I'm thrilled that I have this hobby that not only allows me to do something I enjoy doing, which is writing, but I can choose to write stories about things I don't know with an understanding that my research not only helps me write the story, but also gives me a better understanding of the world outside my little bubble--I get "context."

And I laugh at this because for me, I'd need to do as much research on privileged white people as I would an alien race, having been brought up as a poor southern white girl from the wrong side of the tracks. Which I'm not complaining about because my life growing up has more potential story lines than anything I could dream up. LOL!

ETA: LeX, have you read about this little girl? She is priceless: http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016...it-ask-the-girl-with-1-000-books-and-counting


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## Tettsuo (Apr 7, 2016)

MzSnowleopard said:


> I only deal with humans, other races are just a bit too much of a stretch for me.


Utter and complete truth!


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## Bishop (Apr 7, 2016)

MzSnowleopard said:


> I only deal with humans, other races are just a bit too much of a stretch for me.



But humans are boring! I am a human, I talk with humans everyday. I want something new!


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 7, 2016)

Bishop said:


> But humans are boring! I am a human, I talk with humans everyday. I want something new!




Oh! Let's take a subtopic. How does everyone feel about interracial relationships in novels? So, now it's not just incorporating different races, but developing companionship between them. It's, as we've brought up earlier, becoming aware of each other's cultural differences.


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## Book Cook (Apr 7, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> How does everyone feel about interracial relationships in novels? So, now it's not just incorporating different races, but developing companionship between them.



Depends. If they're of the same genus but different species, they'd be at risk of producing a sterile offspring, which might be interesting and one could put a twist on the word "bastard" currently popularised by George Martin, and could disparage these offspring by calling them "mules". 

If they're of a different genus altogether, then it would be an interesting take on a, say, fantasy world where men in power keep around sentient females of a different genus to sleep with since they can't make them pregnant.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 7, 2016)

Book Cook said:


> Depends. If they're of the same genus but different species, they'd be at risk of producing a sterile offspring, which might be interesting and one could put a twist on the word "bastard" currently popularised by George Martin, and could disparage these offspring by calling them "mules".
> 
> If they're of a different genus altogether, then it would be an interesting take on a, say, fantasy world where men in power keep around sentient females of a different genus to sleep with since they can't make them pregnant.



that's an intereisting idea.In my story,two races don't make a half breed--they make a single bread with Hybrid genes.Cas in point a vampire/lycanthrope child,would be a lycanthrope who gets drowsy and is depowered by uv rays like a vampire.Or conversely,they would be a vampire who has 'fur' instead of hair and retractable claws like a were and get silver poisoning or hell a half human/half angel would be a human who can heal and regenerate.Mixtures are pretty normal in that my world and pure breeds tend to be the wealthy minority.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 7, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> Oh! Let's take a subtopic. How does everyone feel about interracial relationships in novels? So, now it's not just incorporating different races, but developing companionship between them. It's, as we've brought up earlier, becoming aware of each other's cultural differences.


It's funny.  In my first book, the characters would be considered "black", but they're so culturally different, that culture is the real obstacle and race is irrelevant.  IMO, the same applies to "interracial" relationships.  The differences are mostly culture and perception.  Skin color is completely irrelevant actually.

Melanin in and of itself has no bearing on a person's culture, thinking or behavior.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 7, 2016)

as far as interracial relationships a good number of my friends were mixed race so I'm aware of it.In fact I have been in interracial relationships before.I find having similar interests makes the race thing not so relavant--unless there are racist relatives involved.I did not in fact feel marginalized holding a white guy's hand ,or think for a moment I did not measure up because if I didn't he wouldn't have approached.

As such in my novels it varies by individual and friend circles.John St.Cross is particularly known to have lovers from all across the board,(he's into dom chicks and older women ,race and species actually flies under the radar for him and he won't bring it up if you don't.Ironically ,the cast is more concerned about him being white than he is them not being white.His ex is a third generation Haitian American named Shalani and a vampire),where conversely some of  his other friends Jonas and Pax aren't racist but never dated non--white (Johnny wouldn't tolerate racism in his friend circle,he has black family members and his child hood friend and bandmante Laz is black.He has fought people over that.

Sloan in the same boat,because his highschool and he use to escape his abusive home via his black friend Byron--who just happens to be Isabella's cousin.Isabella is just incidentally the second part black person he dated,mostly dated white.He had an aversion to asian girls because he was (still kinda is)ashamed of being part white because his step father.

That said,other characters only date within their race for various reasons -Mitsuki is a vampire and dated Mika Imani who is 1/4 japanese and culturally connected to her grandfather--their problem was that she 's a were cat and the family was not onboard with that.Conversly if her family name wasn't Murasaki, a respected clan where he lived,they probably wouldn't even be together . 

There are some people in the novel who wouldn't even think of interracial dating (Imani's coisun Esperanza only dates Chicano because she is half Chicano ,half black.There are no exceptions to this and becaus eshe is from california,it is possible to do so.Soraya is a puerto rican lesbian...and dates only puerto rican women,just like Noemi only dates black,Aaroon Geller only white,etc).

However,the task force officers who protect the public from transhumans who are required to be culturally sensitive to race and species because there can be no mistakes based on assumptions as race or sex.Their logic is that the enemy can be anywhere and one must be as unbiased as possible.How can you properly handle people with powers /non humans if you can't even deal with normal humansover something so simple as race and sex ?(their actual creed metions it)
People can and do end up dead and it will make STRATA(the task force) lose public favor with such nonsense.So unlike with our regular cops,these people get terminated for racial transgressions.Hell it doesn't have to be on the field-Lt Geist has been known to randomly drill people on proper etiquette and saying something out of line can get you suspended,or on desk duty,etc (he will makeyou apologize to the team members matching the race of sex or orientation that you joked about.That is a punishment for yo' ass)

 .Johnny Nikki and Isabella do end up in poly relationship with Johnny to which they are more concerned about him being white instead of the other way around.


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## KellInkston (Apr 7, 2016)

Good thoughts here, everyone- what an excellent topic idea!

As a writer that does mostly planet-spanning fantasy, it would strike me as unrealistic for my world to be a homogenized race. So I have humans of a good many colors. I would bring up their particular ethnicity in the case that they stick out the most in the group, i.e. in a group of tan people and one pale one, I would emphasize the paleness of the one, or vice versa to ensure readers can visualize the characters well and avoid folks being a singular descriptive blob. I also have plenty of fantasy races, (elves and dwarves and orcs are not the center stage here, rather I try to pull in less known and more unique fantasy races to understand their particular life and story).

So that said, a great deal of my books deal with race and culture relations, less so between humans, and more so between humans and the world around them (the united western kingdoms from _Kingdom through the Swamp_, is a centuries-old conglomerate of races and cultures, for instance.) It's always been an interesting thought for me, what if life was so threatening to humans that they would draw divisions among humanity and dragons, or beasts, rather than one color and the other.

So that said, as one that strives to be relatively anonymous as far as gender and race goes (one could take educated guesses to pin me down, I'm sure) I usually just write the setting for the story I want to tell, and then add various peoples in a manner that would be conducive to the storytelling, I believe there may be such a thing as a specifically "black" story or a specifically "white" story; not in a manner of exuding all other ethnicity, but as a natural struggle and situation that such an ethnicity is most likely to encounter, part of the "experience" in being that race in a certain time or place, perhaps. If I'm speaking jibberish, someone pinch me so I can clarify.

I'll keep an eye on this thread, there's a good deal of insight in here. <3


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## bdcharles (Apr 7, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> Oh! Let's take a subtopic. How does everyone feel about interracial relationships in novels? So, now it's not just incorporating different races, but developing companionship between them. It's, as we've brought up earlier, becoming aware of each other's cultural differences.



Interracial as in Aboriginal Aussie guy with Mongolian yak-herder's daughter? Or as in an Orc-Elf bromance? Actually either way is fine. I think it's a good chance to bring out the concerns about differences, for example how to find common ground, whether to be politically correct, and so on, and examine them in the sandbox of the novel. That's the joy of writing. You're god. Want to see how that stuff plays out in a risk-free environment? Done. That's not to say some writers won't make a hash of it though.


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## KellInkston (Apr 7, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> Oh! Let's take a subtopic. How does everyone feel about interracial relationships in novels? So, now it's not just incorporating different races, but developing companionship between them. It's, as we've brought up earlier, becoming aware of each other's cultural differences.



Fair enough. I like the thought generally and I've seen it used in both realistic and rather classless manners- I think it is, like most anything in the realm of writing, quite up to the depth of the writer's abilities.

Generally, the exchange and understanding (or perhaps lack thereof) of cultural and racial differences is a very fun thing to write about for me, (also provides excellent exposition for the reader, muhuhuhaha...).  So that said, be it platonic, romantic, or hostile in any form, I'm a fan of it if it's done in a sensible, story-driven manner. I have a rule: give the reader what they're looking for, and hopefully that'll be what you're looking for too. It might be friendship, love, or hatred; whatever it is, just hand it over with a smile.


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## Lyra Laurant (Apr 9, 2016)

Oh, we really need more discussions like this! Nice thread!

I'll drop some statistics here, according to a study summed up in this infographic:

In Brazilian literature, 79,8% of characters are white, while 47,51% of real life population is white.
In 56,6% of the novels, there are NO characters who are not white. Not a single one. In those novels, black, mulatto(?)(43% of Brazilian population), asian, indigenous people don't even exist.
20% of black characters are bandits.
Also, only 3 out of 258 novels analised in the study had a protagonist who was black *and* woman.
71% of protagonists are men.
88,9% of female characters are the male protagonist's relatives.

I don't know the statistcs for other countries, but the diversity representation in my country really sucks. The mean character is a white heterosexual man with no disease or disability, from middle class, and lives in a big city. When we compare this to the mean Brazilian writer (from literary, academic literature, I suppose, because I know the fantasy writers are much more diverse than those and write more diverse characters), we find they are only writing about themselves! How boring is that!


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## Lyra Laurant (Apr 9, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> Oh! Let's take a subtopic. How does everyone feel about interracial relationships in novels? So, now it's not just incorporating different races, but developing companionship between them. It's, as we've brought up earlier, becoming aware of each other's cultural differences.



Feels like real life for me 

I'm considered Japanese by other people, even though I'm a sansei (3rd generation, which means me and my parents were born in Brazil). I grew up having interracial realtionships, and having to deal with cultural diferences (my family kept many Japanese traditions) and to answer other people's curiosities about me. Most of my friends and strangers ask in a respectfull way and we have enriching conversations. Other people are offensive in an innocent way (I've already been asked if I can see like "normal" people... because my eyes are asian... what the hell), and sometimes people have yelled racist offences to me in the streets too. But for some coincidence the only romantic relationship I had was with a guy who is a sansei too.


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## Renaissance Man (Apr 11, 2016)

I didn't finish reading the whole thread. But from what I saw I can clearly see that what I thought was just an interesting debate about ethnic diversity has become heated due to the ignorance of a priblvileged white guy. Now here in America racism is becoming a major issue, again. A white cop who kills a black kid gets away scott free. An Asian rookie cop who accidentally fires in a building where cops had been shot, who's shot ricochets and kills a man is convicted of murder.

The idea that it's strictly racial is a falicy. Homeschoolers, Muslims who look white, Naturopaths, those who feel chemical farming harms the environment, or causes chemical allergies like mine or who dare to question doctors also face hatred and targeting comparable to racism. As a homeschooled white kid who had no health insurance most of my childhood I know that.


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## Renaissance Man (Apr 11, 2016)

As for diversity I write sci-fi because that way I can have as much diversity as I want (lots of different aliens) and have ethnically mixed humans who all grew up as one race and therefore all behave in a relatively similar fashion to each other. I realized once that in my best work (with a writing partner) that most of the characters were NOT Caucasian, or if they were. Were supposed to be aliens. I liked that because diversity and tolerance is something desperately needed right now.


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## Renaissance Man (Apr 11, 2016)

Prinze Charming, when someone says 'American accent', that person I would assume means the American accent American newscasters have. None. To those not American what we consider no accent is an American accent. I learned that from David Suchet's portrayal of Hercules Poirot.


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## Sam (Apr 11, 2016)

Lyra Laurant said:


> Oh, we really need more discussions like this! Nice thread!
> 
> I'll drop some statistics here, according to a study summed up in this infographic:
> 
> ...



Well . . . 

It logically follows that a person of a particular race or colour is going to predominately write characters of their own race, lest they be called racist by other people for writing a character that they themselves are not. It also, therefore, follows that those people are going to predominately write characters who are the same gender as they are. 

What you are implying is that there isn't enough diversity in literature. You, and anyone else who feels this way, have the right to pick up a pen and change that. What you don't have the right to do is tell other people what they should and shouldn't be writing, or make them feel bad because they don't have a black, female protagonist (or whatever lack of diversity exists in the majority of novels). 

I write the characters that I want to write. I'm an Irish male, but there is not a single Irish character in any of my novels. In fact, hands up how many people have ever read a mainstream novel with a male or female Irish protagonist in it? And I'm not talking about "ooh, my dog has Irish blood, therefore I am Irish!" I'm talking about, born and bred Irish. You'll find very few. Therefore, do I have the right to tell other writers, "Hey, the Irish are woefully underrepresented in novels! You should all start writing more Irish characters"? 

No, I don't. If I feel that way, it's up to me to do something about it. It isn't the obligation of black or Hispanic writers to write about white people, so why should it be the obligation of white people to write about black or Hispanic people? 

This is a notion that I vehemently hate. As I said above, I write the characters that I feel will fit the story I'm writing. I don't just throw in a half-assed female character because DIVERSITY! 

If the character is necessary for the story, include them. But if you're including them for any other reason, don't bother.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 11, 2016)

One of my teachers give me a great quote a long time ago.

"Don't look for the light in the room.  Be the light in the room.  Don't walk into a space looking for love.  Be the love within that space."

This is the stance I take in my writing.


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## Ultraroel (Apr 11, 2016)

My story won't be anything with humans. 
My different races will have difference sub-races and such. 

I think anyone should be able to write any kind of character.
Don't leave a character in the dust cause you are scared of being called a racist. 
Usually those who pull the racist cards are those who are racist to start with. 

Also, as long as you have a clear perception of the character, you do not necessarily need to relate to him on a specific level.
It's like this discussion where we said that if your character does smth hideous, it doesn't necessarily reflect on you.

Tettsuo, what you posted reminded me of this song: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSbErxJtza4

Think the message is the smae.


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 11, 2016)

Renaissance Man said:


> Prinze Charming, when someone says 'American accent', that person I would assume means the American accent American newscasters have. None. To those not American what we consider no accent is an American accent. I learned that from David Suchet's portrayal of Hercules Poirot.



Wait, I am perplexed here. I understand what you're saying with an American newscaster. They all have that articulated _mono-accent._ However, from your explanation, a southerner would essentially be from another country if another American used your evaluative measures. In writing, it's difficult to articulate an accent unless the words are written in a sense of cultural and geographical diversity. You can find this monotone throughout all literature. This whole concept of an American not having an accent is understandable. However, not all Americans have a newscaster monotone.


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## Ultraroel (Apr 11, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> Wait, I am perplexed here. I understand what you're saying with an American newscaster. They all have that articulated _mono-accent._ However, from your explanation, a southerner would essentially be from another country if another American used your evaluative measures. In writing, it's difficult to articulate an accent unless the words are written in a sense of cultural and geographical diversity. You can find this monotone throughout all literature. This whole concept of an American not having an accent is understandable. However, not all Americans have a newscaster monotone.



As a non-native English speaker, an American accent is a very over the top accent, like brad pitts character in Inglorious Bastard. I don't know all different accents, but if I read about a British accent, it's the posh type speech for me. I think it's called Cockney?

Anyway, If you wanna make sure to convey the correct accent, just ask a foreigner instead of an English native.. I think


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## PrinzeCharming (Apr 11, 2016)

Ultraroel said:


> If I read about a British accent, it's the posh type speech for me. I think it's called Cockney?



I believe Cockney is reserved to the working class Brits. That's more of the posh group. My mum tries to bring our her English, but she hasn't been in London for decades. Slang is fascinating because it's all over the world. Every language has slang. In essence, we teach students the textual version of the language while the natives are dissecting their speech. 



Ultraroel said:


> Anyway, If you wanna make sure to convey the correct accent, just ask a foreigner instead of an English native.. I think



That's great advice for this thread. When we want to incorporate different races into our stories, why not reach out to someone with that background? It's definitely worth a shot. Everyone has a different perspective and could benefit from each other as long as they listen.


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## PiP (Apr 11, 2016)

> As a non-native English speaker, an American accent is a very over the top accent, like brad pitts character in Inglorious Bastard. I don't know all different accents, but if I read about a British accent, it's the posh type speech for me. I think it's called Cockney?


Cockney is the East London accent and not so much to do with working class. Google cockney rhyming slang and 'East End of London'. there is a TV program called 'EastEnders' you should be able to view on YouTube. My Mum was a cockney... she sent me to private school so I lost my accent.


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## Patrick (Apr 11, 2016)

"Posh" English doesn't have a regional accent. If you listened to me speak, you wouldn't have a clue which part of England I was from, and this goes for quite a few of my friends too, but if you were to listen to some others who have grown up here, you would know immediately.

Posh is also the wrong adjective. I went to a "posh" school, but I learnt to speak the way I do by reading aloud a lot because I liked words and wanted to pronounce everything perfectly. The stereotypical "posh" accent is very rare because it's an affected accent. It's only spoken by those who never allow themselves to be lazy. It's most notable for its characteristic "drawl". "off" becoming "orf" is a good example. It's not really contemporary English.


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## dale (Apr 11, 2016)

PrinzeCharming said:


> Wait, I am perplexed here. I understand what you're saying with an American newscaster. They all have that articulated _mono-accent._ However, from your explanation, a southerner would essentially be from another country if another American used your evaluative measures. In writing, it's difficult to articulate an accent unless the words are written in a sense of cultural and geographical diversity. You can find this monotone throughout all literature. This whole concept of an American not having an accent is understandable. However, not all Americans have a newscaster monotone.



i've talked to foreigners about this. it might not be true for all...but the ones i've talked to?
they consider an "american accent" to be what i would consider a "hilljack accent". like....

"hey, ya'll. wanna head on down ta the hoe-down and have rselves a fine ol' time?"

that kind of thing.


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## Patrick (Apr 11, 2016)

dale said:


> i've talked to foreigners about this. it might not be true for all...but the ones i've talked to?
> they consider an "american accent" to be what i would consider a "hilljack accent". like....
> 
> "hey, ya'll. wanna head on down ta the hoe-down and have rselves a fine ol' time?"
> ...



I pay much more attention to your attractive news presenters I can see on Sky.


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## dale (Apr 11, 2016)

i love the stones. but this is a perfect example of how brits perceive an "american accent"....

[video=youtube;VyK1bZZ7E-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyK1bZZ7E-s&nohtml5=False[/video]


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## Kevin (Apr 11, 2016)

if you want the American non-accent watch CNN. Obama... Obama doesn't speak with an accent... at least not in mixed company.


> a southerner would essentially be from another country


Maybe things have changed now, but from my recollection, yes, another country. I think it was called the 'former-Confederacy'. At school, we had all the generals up on the wall. Born in other than Virginia, just across the river, I was categorized as "Yankee". Role call, the teachers would call my older brother "Mah-kle". That's spelled Michael, but that was in Alabama. I don't know how they said it in Virginia. I can't remember. Our family lived in both places.


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## EmmaSohan (Apr 12, 2016)

Nice issue, thanks for bringing it up.

I want to live in a world where race does not matter. To me, it's a constant, small problem in writing. Minor characters occasionally are given non-Caucasian names. Serial killers do not get their race described, because I would never have an African-American serial killer. I decided my random name for a slut (Chinese name) was a horrible choice.

While my terrorists appear in Ankara, I never describe them or their language. And half way through one book, I mention only in passing that a character is Afro-American.


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## dale (Apr 12, 2016)

EmmaSohan said:


> because I would never have an African-American serial killer.


can i ask why that is? kind of a racist comment to make, really. because it's either you're saying you feel that black people
don't seem sophisticated or intelligent enough to you to BE serial killers; or you're saying that you feel having a black serial killer
in a story would somehow make a statement towards the race in general.


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## EmmaSohan (Apr 13, 2016)

dale said:


> can i ask why that is? kind of a racist comment to make, really. because it's either you're saying you feel that black people
> don't seem sophisticated or intelligent enough to you to BE serial killers; or you're saying that you feel having a black serial killer
> in a story would somehow make a statement towards the race in general.



I don't want to create stereotypes or feed into them. Now that I think about it, if the story is in the US, I wouldn't have a serial killer of any descent -- Italian, Polish, etc. Or religion, now that I think of that too.


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## Gamer_2k4 (Apr 13, 2016)

My story takes place in Europe, so all the characters are white.  One is English, one is Swiss, two are French, two are Italian, and the rest are German.  It has had absolutely no impact on my story beyond what the characters are named, and I don't think it should.  I'm reminded of people questioning how to write the opposite gender.  Men and women are both people, so write them like people.  No need to worry beyond that.


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## dale (Apr 13, 2016)

EmmaSohan said:


> I don't want to create stereotypes or feed into them. Now that I think about it, if the story is in the US, I wouldn't have a serial killer of any descent -- Italian, Polish, etc. Or religion, now that I think of that too.



well, stereotypically, white males are serial killers. so if you really want to break a stereotype? you'd probably wanna go
with anything other than a white male.


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## FunkyNed (Apr 13, 2016)

In the crime novel I'm working on, the main character is white, and his partner is African american.  I based it on my real life experiences.  It takes place in the south, so it deals a little with racism and what not.  I'm just trying my best to keep it from being like the Hap and Leonard books.


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 14, 2016)

more often than not,white males are the only ones to get away with being serial killers;everyone else is suspect for not being white.so white serial killer is kinda alright--unless you are in africa.


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## JustRob (Apr 14, 2016)

My novel is about people who work together in an office. It reflects the mentality of office workers in that race is not indicated in dialogue nor is it relevant to any events. That just means that I never have any reason to write directly about any character's ethnicity, but I still have it in mind when I write. A reader might assume that all my characters are white, but one actually has Anglo-Caribbean ancestry. Mentioning this would add nothing to the story though, so I don't. I don't believe in mentioning ethnicity just to prove that my characters are diverse. If a reader truly believes in racial equality then they should assume that they are diverse without my mentioning it. I don't go into the religious backgrounds of my characters either although there are the typically British casual references to such things, which give no clue as to the extent of anyone's faith. I see no difference in this.

One great advantage of literature is that it isn't obliged to indicate ethnicity in the way that audio-visual media eventually must. In fact elsewhere here we have discussed the other side of the coin, that gender has to be indicated in written text simply through an idiosyncracy of the language even though that may be inconvenient. For example, in a visual medium a killer may perform their dastardly deed without ever exposing their gender, but that is more difficult to describe in text as pronouns give the game away. Fortunately our language has never adopted specific pronouns to differentiate races to my knowledge. 

Our language demands that every person be assigned a gender no matter how androgynous they may be, but it makes no such demands about ethnicity, so let's enjoy that freedom and be vague when it suits us. Of course I wouldn't do it religiously though.


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## Schrody (Apr 14, 2016)

My characters are mostly white (at least, that's how I imagine them) because other races make not even 1% of population in my country. I wouldn't mind if a person of a different race played some of my characters on the film - I really liked Will Smith in "I Am Legend" and "I Robot", although the character in "I Am Legend" is definitely a white male, not sure about "I Robot", but given the time Asimov wrote it (both were written in the 50's/60's), I doubt it was anything other than a white male.


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## Tettsuo (Apr 14, 2016)

dale said:


> well, stereotypically, white males are serial killers. so if you really want to break a stereotype? you'd probably wanna go
> with anything other than a white male.


My most recent novel I have a psychopathic killer that's Asian.

Gotta break the mold!


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## LeX_Domina (Apr 16, 2016)

on the subject of serial killers,there's a black male and latina female mass murdering supersoldiers and a chinese woman as a hitlady running around.No weird stereotypes...that's just what's happening


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