# I look over my shoulder



## Smith (Jun 22, 2016)

*A look over my shoulder*

Haunted halls;
ghosts on the walls.
Shelves with trophies.
Pictures. Memories.

Time shatters what is made
besides the footprints I have laid.
There is nothing left for me here.
The echoes are all that I hear.


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## ned (Jun 22, 2016)

hello - I enjoyed reading your poem - has a good mood and a poignant edge

the second verse has longer lines - which is fine - so take it further and break the contractions
Time shatters what is made - etc - to give it space for a smoother read, perhaps

cheers
Ned


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## Bard_Daniel (Jun 23, 2016)

Interesting poem here. Your periods at the end of the first stanza break the rhythm for me. An "and" between the two would perhaps be better.

Overall, a good read though. Thanks for sharing.


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## Smith (Jun 23, 2016)

danielstj said:


> Interesting poem here. Your periods at the end of the first stanza break the rhythm for me. An "and" between the two would perhaps be better.
> 
> Overall, a good read though. Thanks for sharing.




Ah, such is the reason why I have begun to turn away from poetry. Words like "beat" and "rhythm" and so on get thrown around a lot but, at least via writing, there is no way to actually explain what those should feel or sound like. I don't even know if I read poetry correctly, so what sounds fine and good to me tends to miss the mark with others, or vice versa. Maybe that's because I don't read it with a consistent pace, but just whatever makes sense to myself.

Maybe I'd like freeverse. Except, freeverse is so vague that I don't even know where to start.

Thanks for the comments guys, nonetheless.


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## ned (Jun 23, 2016)

hello - you are over-complicating the concept of rhythm - it's just an element of flow, which means 'easy to read'

you are familiar with this poem - but consider the reader, where would their train of thought de-rail or hit the buffers?
Daniel suggests one such place.

the second verse seems confusing - the narrator lays footprints, that are left for him/her ?

Ned


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## Smith (Jun 23, 2016)

ned said:


> hello - you are over-complicating the concept of rhythm - it's just an element of flow, which means 'easy to read'
> 
> you are familiar with this poem - but consider the reader, where would their train of thought de-rail or hit the buffers?
> Daniel suggests one such place.
> ...



And that's what I mean. What is easy to read for me, or what flows well to me, is not always easy to read or smooth for somebody else.

Now I think I understand that I need to stop writing for other people, and I need to recognize the difference between subjective and objective criticism.

Or, you provide another good example with "confusing". There are times I'll write something very simple and straightforward, and people say, "You need to do more with this." So then I do more, which turns into, "This is too dense" or "I don't understand". Perhaps the answer lies in just doing whatever I please for once. Nothing wrong with that in moderation, I suppose (although I do understand that one of the primary purposes of this forum is to critique, of course!) 

As for your question, I won't answer it because that's up to how you want to interpret it.

No ill manners meant, by the way, just in case I came across that way! I'm just trying to figure out where I'm going wrong, and I think it is the dichotomy of writing what I want, while wanting people to like and grasp what I write.

I still appreciate the feedback, both of you. Would never ask to receive none. Thankful people even read my work at all, haha!


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## ned (Jun 23, 2016)

there is a general consensus as to the of flow of a poem - or else the term would be redundant
for instance, a full-stop in the middle of a line would surely trip up most readers - the criticism of rhythm is on their behalf
and certainly not subjective - the whole point is to communicate your ideas to others, a good flow helps in that process.

confusing, not because it's too dense or wordy or flowery - but because it is not logical - spin the lines
There is nothing left for me here.besides the footprints I have laid.

unless you meant - something left OF me

Ned


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## Smith (Jun 23, 2016)

Time shatters what is made (referring to the first stanza), besides the footprints I have laid. (in other words "besides the fact I've been there" or "but I still possess the memory; I know it happened even if I can't prove it").

There is nothing left for me here. (refer to "haunted halls" and "ghosts on the walls").

The echoes are all that I hear. (could be literal, as in there's nothing left which means its empty and sounds echo more; or, the way I admittedly intended it, it's the echoes of the past memories on the shelves)

---

It isn't very straightforward, I'll give you that. But the room for interpretation is deliberate.


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## ned (Jun 24, 2016)

if the room for different interpretations is deliberate, then you must be delighted when your work is misunderstood, no?

'besides' is an exception clause referring to footprints, declared before the 'nothing left for me' line, according to the regular reading of the narrative,
and not an interpretaion at all - 

if it's true you are "wanting people to like and grasp what I write" - then, 'room for interpretion' is not the way to go about it - in my opinion.
Ned


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## kaminoshiyo (Jun 24, 2016)

Didn't know you wrote poetry...

Welcome


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## escorial (Jun 24, 2016)

bleak....diluted with rhythm....but still the words engaged me..cool


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## escorial (Jun 24, 2016)

doh..!


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## Smith (Jun 24, 2016)

ned said:


> if the room for different interpretations is deliberate, then you must be delighted when your work is misunderstood, no?
> 
> 'besides' is an exception clause referring to footprints, declared before the 'nothing left for me' line, according to the regular reading of the narrative,
> and not an interpretaion at all -
> ...



Yes, I am delighted when my work is interpreted differently.

The problem in the first place had to do with the "sound" of the poem, the breaking of rhythm. I think the ability of people understanding my work was brought up accidentally by me. Because technically, at least according to the comments that started this discussion originally, it seemed as if both of you were able to come to some sort of personal opinion on what the poem is about, and what it means to you.

You are correct; "besides" refers to the footprints, which is followed by another sentence "There is nothing left for me here." So, the narrator doesn't consider the footprints, or the pictures / trophies memories, or the haunted halls, to be anything worth staying for.

Ultimately, at this point in the discussion, I am still left confused as to how to fix the "diluted rhythm" of the piece. Or really, of my poetry in general, since this tends to always be something pointed out except in my haikus. In my head it reads fine to me. To which you could say, "Well, daniel and I told you where to fix it." To which I would respond, "Yes, but then it won't sound quite right to me either."

EDIT: I made some changes to the second stanza that I think you would like, ned, and I would like to get some feedback if you have the time!


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## SilverMoon (Jun 25, 2016)

> Originally Posted by Smith
> 
> Maybe I'd like freeverse. Except, freeverse is so vague that I don't even know where to start.



Mostly, I write free verse after such writers as Plath, Sexton, Lowell and am exploring the more contemporary writers.  Here's Wiki's def. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_verse

Based on your poem here, I think this genre would suit you fine and you would give justice to it after reading, practicing form. It's really not so vague as Wiki will point to. Form is to be considered e.g. internal rhyme for one instance.

Sylvia Plath's "Secrets"

http://www.best-poems.net/sylvia_plath/a_secret.html

And I'm a firm believer that getting a grasp on the lyrical assists good prose writing.  Best, Laurie


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## Firemajic (Jun 25, 2016)

Smith... let me start by saying this... ALWAYS remember.. the MESSAGE is YOURS... how much you want to share, is up to you, and ONLY you. some of your readers will "get it"... some will not. Now, of course there is always room for improvement, but "improvement", at times is subjective... Rhythm and rhyme, should you chose to use it, must be handled in such a way as to enhance your message, never force your message to fit the rhyme... for me, this poem needs nothing added or edited... fabulous work, you are maturing as a poet, and this poem is poof of progress..


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## Smith (Jun 27, 2016)

Firemajic said:


> Smith... let me start by saying this... ALWAYS remember.. the MESSAGE is YOURS... how much you want to share, is up to you, and ONLY you. some of your readers will "get it"... some will not. Now, of course there is always room for improvement, but "improvement", at times is subjective... Rhythm and rhyme, should you chose to use it, must be handled in such a way as to enhance your message, never force your message to fit the rhyme... for me, this poem needs nothing added or edited... fabulous work, you are maturing as a poet, and this poem is poof of progress..



Agreed, that is something I need to remember!

Thank-you Jul, glad you liked it. Felt good to write something different.


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